ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I went a little freaked out because our server was just

00:00:04 ◼   ► massively hammered with a huge load spike, eight minutes ago,

00:00:08 ◼   ► and the load average went up to like 150, and I couldn't

00:00:11 ◼   ► figure out, looking at all the logs, like what the hell's

00:00:13 ◼   ► going on, why is this all of a sudden very heavily loaded,

00:00:16 ◼   ► no clue why.

00:00:17 ◼   ► Now, we still have all of our listeners on the livestream,

00:00:21 ◼   ► we have over 1100 listeners on the livestream, and the load

00:00:24 ◼   ► is 0.5.

00:00:26 ◼   ► And I'm a little scared that I don't know why.

00:00:30 ◼   ► - Is that something updating the location database?

00:00:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:35 ◼   ► Is it like the Linux equivalent of photo analysis thing?

00:00:39 ◼   ► (beeping)

00:00:41 ◼   ► I don't know about you two, but I feel overwhelmed

00:00:43 ◼   ► with the amount of content.

00:00:44 ◼   ► I know we've just seen at this point the keynote

00:00:46 ◼   ► and the State of the Union, and that's all,

00:00:48 ◼   ► but it seemed like there was more.

00:00:50 ◼   ► Now obviously this is a big year, there's a lot of big

00:00:52 ◼   ► important announcements, but it just seemed like,

00:00:54 ◼   ► even setting aside how important and momentous certain

00:00:56 ◼   ► announcements were, there was just more content.

00:00:58 ◼   ► And I have to think it's because the stuff was prerecorded.

00:01:02 ◼   ► When you do things live, there is a certain amount of slack

00:01:05 ◼   ► in terms of, I don't know, walking around the stage,

00:01:08 ◼   ► gathering yourself for the next sentence you're going to say,

00:01:10 ◼   ► certainly the transition between presenters walking off

00:01:13 ◼   ► the stage and a new person walking on, that takes longer

00:01:16 ◼   ► than a cut, any kind of live demo has way more slack in it

00:01:20 ◼   ► than a prerecorded thing where everything is perfect

00:01:22 ◼   ► down to the second, and I think even though the keynote

00:01:26 ◼   ► was not particularly long, it was like an hour and 50

00:01:28 ◼   ► minutes or something, they packed a lot of stuff in.

00:01:30 ◼   ► I feel overwhelmed with the amount of good, cool, new stuff,

00:01:35 ◼   ► and I hope we manage to talk about it all.

00:01:37 ◼   ► If we miss your favorite thing, don't worry,

00:01:39 ◼   ► we'll keep talking about the WWDC if history has been

00:01:42 ◼   ► a guide for the next several weeks.

00:01:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause usually in the summer there's not a whole

00:01:45 ◼   ► lot of news, especially as you get into July and August,

00:01:48 ◼   ► there's not a whole lot of news, so we will have plenty

00:01:50 ◼   ► of time to cover whatever we don't know,

00:01:51 ◼   ► whatever we don't have time for this week.

00:01:53 ◼   ► Although we do have more time than usual 'cause we're not

00:01:55 ◼   ► live for the first time in, what, three or four years?

00:01:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know, Jon, you're extremely relieved to be doing

00:01:59 ◼   ► this at home, but I think I speak for Marco in saying

00:02:02 ◼   ► that I'm pretty sad that we're not in front of all

00:02:05 ◼   ► of our friends, well, not all of our friends,

00:02:07 ◼   ► but many of our friends in San Jose or San Francisco

00:02:09 ◼   ► or what have you, but I'm glad that 1,200-ish of you

00:02:12 ◼   ► are joining us right now and hopefully many, many more

00:02:14 ◼   ► once this is released.

00:02:16 ◼   ► I gotta say, as quick overall impressions,

00:02:19 ◼   ► whoo, that was a lot.

00:02:20 ◼   ► It was a lot and it was fast.

00:02:22 ◼   ► You know, it's funny, I was one of the first to lament

00:02:26 ◼   ► the really lame demos and to complain about how the,

00:02:31 ◼   ► I don't wanna see, what was it, it was an anchor,

00:02:34 ◼   ► Anki, the caller, whatever it was, yeah.

00:02:38 ◼   ► But they gave us a chance to breathe,

00:02:40 ◼   ► and without those demos, this was fast.

00:02:42 ◼   ► I was trying to take notes as I was listening

00:02:45 ◼   ► and trying to keep up with Twitter and different slacks,

00:02:49 ◼   ► and it was just so much, so, so fast,

00:02:53 ◼   ► which ultimately is very, very good.

00:02:55 ◼   ► And obviously there's a lot to cover.

00:02:58 ◼   ► I don't feel like I've properly processed any of it.

00:03:00 ◼   ► I feel like I've processed less of it than when I'm there,

00:03:04 ◼   ► perhaps because all I do is talk about it all day long

00:03:06 ◼   ► with everyone I can see, and what with me being at the beach

00:03:09 ◼   ► with my family, I didn't talk about it all day long.

00:03:11 ◼   ► I just watched the keynote, watched the State of the Union

00:03:12 ◼   ► and otherwise ignored it.

00:03:14 ◼   ► But I don't know, I feel like my head is swimming,

00:03:17 ◼   ► and I don't know what to make of it one way or the other.

00:03:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's interesting, the format was so different

00:03:22 ◼   ► this year, forced by COVID-19 and everything.

00:03:24 ◼   ► And by the way, I really respect the intro by Tim Cook,

00:03:28 ◼   ► the kind of, where he sat down on the little stool

00:03:30 ◼   ► behind the empty auditorium and talked to the nation

00:03:34 ◼   ► about what was going on.

00:03:35 ◼   ► It was really well done, it was very tasteful,

00:03:38 ◼   ► and I think Tim did a really good job of handling,

00:03:40 ◼   ► this is a tricky time, this is tumultuous in a lot of ways.

00:03:43 ◼   ► And so that was handled well, I thought.

00:03:46 ◼   ► And then as for the format of the presentation itself,

00:03:49 ◼   ► being this kind of, I think pretty clearly pre-recorded,

00:03:53 ◼   ► presentation is almost the wrong word for it, I guess?

00:03:59 ◼   ► It was basically a pre-recorded video introduction.

00:04:02 ◼   ► It felt in some ways like a combination between

00:04:06 ◼   ► a cool demo and a more fun version

00:04:10 ◼   ► of a corporate training video, almost.

00:04:14 ◼   ► I don't mean that in a bad way, I know that

00:04:16 ◼   ► can be interpreted badly, I don't mean that in a bad way.

00:04:18 ◼   ► It seemed very produced, but if you look back

00:04:22 ◼   ► at recent years of Apple presentations,

00:04:27 ◼   ► we've said in almost every presentation that over time,

00:04:31 ◼   ► it has felt a little bit more artificial

00:04:34 ◼   ► and a little bit higher budget than what they appear

00:04:37 ◼   ► to be letting on with the artifice of it.

00:04:41 ◼   ► I don't know, it's hard to explain, but the presentations

00:04:44 ◼   ► that have been in person, in auditoriums so far,

00:04:47 ◼   ► for the last few years have been increasingly

00:04:50 ◼   ► corporate feeling, and they've had more and more

00:04:52 ◼   ► pre-produced video segments that they keep cutting to

00:04:55 ◼   ► and everything, and so it has felt more,

00:04:58 ◼   ► almost like a commercial.

00:04:59 ◼   ► And I think this format change that they were forced

00:05:03 ◼   ► to make this year is actually a positive thing

00:05:06 ◼   ► in the sense that it actually kind of fully admits

00:05:10 ◼   ► and embraces what it has been inching towards all along,

00:05:13 ◼   ► which is pre-produced, very high budget,

00:05:16 ◼   ► very high production value commercials, basically,

00:05:19 ◼   ► but done in a slightly more down-to-earth way.

00:05:22 ◼   ► And I think that better reflects the size

00:05:26 ◼   ► of the company today, it better reflects the importance,

00:05:29 ◼   ► the financial importance and the size of the community

00:05:33 ◼   ► and everything, it kind of better reflects

00:05:35 ◼   ► what the company is today, rather than trying to

00:05:39 ◼   ► keep this train going of this old presentation style

00:05:43 ◼   ► that Steve Jobs used to do, back when the world

00:05:46 ◼   ► was very different, the company was a lot smaller,

00:05:49 ◼   ► he was obviously still alive and still doing them.

00:05:52 ◼   ► And until today, Apple was still trying to replicate that,

00:05:56 ◼   ► and it was losing steam, like the old format,

00:05:58 ◼   ► I feel like, was losing steam over the last couple years,

00:06:01 ◼   ► and was starting to feel really stale.

00:06:02 ◼   ► And so there are parts of that that I miss

00:06:05 ◼   ► with this new format, and they might go back to it.

00:06:08 ◼   ► Once the virus is under control and they can have

00:06:11 ◼   ► large gatherings, maybe they'll go back to the old format,

00:06:13 ◼   ► I don't know, but I feel like this new format

00:06:15 ◼   ► is a more honest and accurate representation

00:06:19 ◼   ► of what they actually are today, as opposed to trying

00:06:23 ◼   ► to continue on the way it used to be of like,

00:06:26 ◼   ► hey, we're still the same old company,

00:06:28 ◼   ► run by these fun hippies, hey, everyone's cool.

00:06:31 ◼   ► 'Cause that wasn't really accurate anymore.

00:06:34 ◼   ► - I don't know if I see that distinction

00:06:35 ◼   ► you're pointing out, I mean, I understand what you're saying

00:06:37 ◼   ► and I know why this format couldn't have as much

00:06:39 ◼   ► of the spontaneity, 'cause it's not live, right?

00:06:41 ◼   ► But I don't see that big of a difference,

00:06:44 ◼   ► other than it being tightened up and all the ad libs

00:06:47 ◼   ► being removed, obviously it feels less friendly

00:06:51 ◼   ► and personable than having it live, but there are good

00:06:55 ◼   ► presentations and bad ones when they're live,

00:06:57 ◼   ► and I think there's nothing wrong with the format,

00:07:00 ◼   ► I think just sometimes the chemistry doesn't combine.

00:07:04 ◼   ► What you really need for a good live keynote

00:07:05 ◼   ► is the same thing you need for any good you need.

00:07:08 ◼   ► People who are excited about the things

00:07:10 ◼   ► that are announcing, the things that are announcing

00:07:11 ◼   ► have to be really good, and to the degree that they're not

00:07:14 ◼   ► and the presenters are feigning excessive enthusiasm,

00:07:17 ◼   ► that can make it feel a little bit off,

00:07:18 ◼   ► but this time around, setting aside the weird format

00:07:22 ◼   ► of people filmed individually and then sliced together

00:07:24 ◼   ► for obvious reasons, they had a lot of good announcements.

00:07:28 ◼   ► But I feel like this format necessarily tamped down

00:07:31 ◼   ► on some of the enjoyment that we normally get,

00:07:33 ◼   ► like even Federighi only got in one dad joke

00:07:37 ◼   ► about the social distancing about the birds, right?

00:07:39 ◼   ► He usually has nine of those, and they work well,

00:07:42 ◼   ► and I think his personality comes through,

00:07:45 ◼   ► to the degree that any presenters are allowed

00:07:47 ◼   ► to have their personality come through,

00:07:50 ◼   ► whether it's in their attitude or their cadence

00:07:53 ◼   ► or the jokes that they manage to get into the presentations,

00:07:56 ◼   ► I don't know what the filtering mechanism is

00:07:59 ◼   ► for those jokes, do they decide, does someone else decide,

00:08:01 ◼   ► like I enjoy all of that, and I think where I agree

00:08:04 ◼   ► with Marco is that I think this year's,

00:08:06 ◼   ► I think they did a really good job with this year's format,

00:08:08 ◼   ► given the constraints.

00:08:10 ◼   ► It didn't feel weird and awkward, like we all know

00:08:14 ◼   ► that they had to be filmed ahead of time,

00:08:15 ◼   ► we all know they were all filmed separately,

00:08:17 ◼   ► and if that wasn't clear, they explained it

00:08:19 ◼   ► in the little thing at the end that explains

00:08:21 ◼   ► all the precautions they took during filming.

00:08:23 ◼   ► But each one of the segments felt like that person

00:08:25 ◼   ► could have been on stage, modified for the obvious fact

00:08:28 ◼   ► that there's not going to be any applause, pauses,

00:08:30 ◼   ► and they're not going to make any stumbles,

00:08:32 ◼   ► and all the demos are going to be perfect,

00:08:34 ◼   ► because if they're not, they just do them over again, right?

00:08:36 ◼   ► So if anything, I think this format pulls,

00:08:39 ◼   ► I mean, like you said, this pulls a little bit

00:08:41 ◼   ► of the humanity out of it, but I don't think

00:08:43 ◼   ► that's necessary, like I think you can just leave

00:08:46 ◼   ► different takes in and leave a little bit of slack

00:08:49 ◼   ► and let Craig make a few more dad jokes,

00:08:51 ◼   ► and we're back to the best they've ever been.

00:08:54 ◼   ► - It was actually very nice to not have

00:08:56 ◼   ► any third-party demos on stage,

00:08:59 ◼   ► 'cause those always drag so much,

00:09:02 ◼   ► and it seems like no one in the room wants those,

00:09:05 ◼   ► except Apple apparently, like they would go over

00:09:09 ◼   ► like a lead balloon, nobody actually wants them.

00:09:11 ◼   ► - But they did them, they had demos of third-party apps,

00:09:14 ◼   ► just not done by third parties, they showed Office briefly,

00:09:17 ◼   ► they showed Lightroom, they showed Photoshop,

00:09:19 ◼   ► like that's how Apple I think always wishes those demos go,

00:09:22 ◼   ► but once you invite an executive from another company,

00:09:24 ◼   ► you kind of have to let them talk a little bit

00:09:26 ◼   ► about something or other, and that's death.

00:09:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, so like this new format that didn't have any demos,

00:09:32 ◼   ► I mean I don't know, assuming they continue this format

00:09:34 ◼   ► for a little while, 'cause the virus isn't going anywhere

00:09:36 ◼   ► anytime soon unfortunately, so that I'm sure

00:09:38 ◼   ► whatever fall or winter releases they do,

00:09:41 ◼   ► whatever events they do, I would say probably at least

00:09:44 ◼   ► until next spring, is most likely gonna follow

00:09:46 ◼   ► a similar format as this, and so when products get released,

00:09:50 ◼   ► when they usually have like game demos and stuff,

00:09:52 ◼   ► like hey, look at the new iPhone or iPad,

00:09:54 ◼   ► how fast it can run these games,

00:09:56 ◼   ► I hope they consider not having the third party demos,

00:10:00 ◼   ► 'cause this works so much better without them.

00:10:02 ◼   ► - All right, so we got a lot to go through,

00:10:03 ◼   ► we should probably start, and we're gonna attempt,

00:10:05 ◼   ► as I say every year, we're going to attempt

00:10:07 ◼   ► to do it chronologically, and then we're going

00:10:08 ◼   ► to fail miserably, and it started pretty much

00:10:12 ◼   ► with iOS 14 and widgets, which I think the most interesting

00:10:16 ◼   ► bombshell from that whole conversation,

00:10:19 ◼   ► I don't think it even happened during the keynote,

00:10:21 ◼   ► but rather during the State of the Union,

00:10:23 ◼   ► where they said widgets are going to be SwiftUI only,

00:10:25 ◼   ► which in retrospect I'm not terribly surprised by,

00:10:29 ◼   ► but I certainly did not expect whatsoever,

00:10:32 ◼   ► and it makes sense, it seems to be,

00:10:34 ◼   ► because they can serialize and save off

00:10:36 ◼   ► the state of the widget, and then just kind of replay it

00:10:39 ◼   ► later and so on and so forth, but I was very surprised

00:10:42 ◼   ► to see that, that being said, the widgets looked pretty good

00:10:46 ◼   ► and you can put them on the home screen,

00:10:48 ◼   ► you can do, what do they call them,

00:10:49 ◼   ► like IntelliSmart widgets or something like that,

00:10:51 ◼   ► or Smart Shelf, I forget what it was called,

00:10:53 ◼   ► where you stack, Smart Stack, you stack a few of them

00:10:56 ◼   ► on top of each other, and then the OS and the device

00:10:59 ◼   ► will just do, show the one it thinks is most relevant

00:11:02 ◼   ► based on how important each individual widget thinks it is

00:11:05 ◼   ► at that particular moment.

00:11:06 ◼   ► I don't know, all this looked really, really good.

00:11:08 ◼   ► I don't know, there's nothing I can think of

00:11:11 ◼   ► that I'm like, yes, finally I can have this

00:11:13 ◼   ► on my home screen, but I do think that this is one

00:11:15 ◼   ► of the lowest hanging fruits that they could have picked,

00:11:19 ◼   ► not from an engineering effort perspective,

00:11:21 ◼   ► but from a, come on guys, you really haven't done

00:11:23 ◼   ► anything in Springboard in, what, 10 years?

00:11:25 ◼   ► Can we do something?

00:11:26 ◼   ► And they did something, and it looks good.

00:11:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, this has been a requested feature

00:11:30 ◼   ► for years and years, 'cause the grid of icons

00:11:32 ◼   ► was a great thing to start with,

00:11:33 ◼   ► but if you had told someone in 2007

00:11:35 ◼   ► that we'd still have the grid of icons in 2020,

00:11:37 ◼   ► you'd be like, really, nothing different?

00:11:39 ◼   ► It's like, well, folders, but really?

00:11:41 ◼   ► The folders just look like the little, you know,

00:11:43 ◼   ► widgets on the home screen, you know,

00:11:46 ◼   ► pioneered by Android, used by lots of phones

00:11:49 ◼   ► in various ways, basically just can I have something more

00:11:51 ◼   ► on my screen instead of just a grid of apps

00:11:52 ◼   ► or a grid of folders, and finally, you can do that.

00:11:55 ◼   ► Like, they kept creeping up on it, putting these widgets

00:11:57 ◼   ► in the little thing that's to the left, right?

00:12:00 ◼   ► But now that you, and the widgets are still there,

00:12:02 ◼   ► but now you can put them on your home screen,

00:12:03 ◼   ► and you can have them take up the same amount of room

00:12:05 ◼   ► as four apps, the same amount of room as, what, eight apps?

00:12:08 ◼   ► So they're either squares or they're big rectangles,

00:12:10 ◼   ► maybe they can be even taller.

00:12:12 ◼   ► Yeah, actually, you can do a grid,

00:12:13 ◼   ► a four by four grid of 16 apps, I think.

00:12:15 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:12:16 ◼   ► - Hexagons coming next year, so you can tessellate them.

00:12:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, that'll be just like the watch,

00:12:20 ◼   ► just this giant scrolling cluster of frog eggs.

00:12:25 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:12:25 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:12:28 ◼   ► But yeah, this is long overdue, and it will,

00:12:31 ◼   ► and it's the biggest change to Springboard in years, right?

00:12:36 ◼   ► I think even bigger than the folders.

00:12:37 ◼   ► This is gonna change how people's home screens look and work

00:12:40 ◼   ► because in those widgets, you can add functionality

00:12:43 ◼   ► that you don't have, would normally have to go

00:12:45 ◼   ► into an app to get.

00:12:48 ◼   ► I'm sure someone with more watchOS experience

00:12:50 ◼   ► like Underscore would know better,

00:12:52 ◼   ► but looking at the API for this, it looks a lot like

00:12:56 ◼   ► the UI for stuff on the watch where you give a timeline

00:13:01 ◼   ► of information if it's the type of thing.

00:13:03 ◼   ► Am I thinking of the watch or am I misremembering, Marco?

00:13:05 ◼   ► - Yep, yep.

00:13:06 ◼   ► It's basically how complications work,

00:13:08 ◼   ► where you provide the timeline of what kind of data

00:13:11 ◼   ► should be displayed at what time in the future,

00:13:14 ◼   ► to a certain range in the future,

00:13:15 ◼   ► and then it automatically displays it,

00:13:17 ◼   ► and so you don't have to, and often can't,

00:13:20 ◼   ► manually update it constantly.

00:13:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, and your app isn't running all the time,

00:13:24 ◼   ► and it's basically an energy efficient way

00:13:26 ◼   ► to not have all these apps running all the time,

00:13:28 ◼   ► but still allow them to put content there.

00:13:29 ◼   ► Now obviously, that doesn't work for all things.

00:13:31 ◼   ► Like obviously, sometimes you don't know the future

00:13:33 ◼   ► and can't put out timeline to that far,

00:13:35 ◼   ► but anyway, it's a very flexible API

00:13:37 ◼   ► to try to be power efficient and CPU efficient

00:13:41 ◼   ► to not have apps constantly churning

00:13:43 ◼   ► while still giving much more information and functionality

00:13:47 ◼   ► directly on your home screen.

00:13:49 ◼   ► As part of this also, further home screen changes,

00:13:53 ◼   ► they added the app library, which is a better,

00:13:56 ◼   ► more or less a better way to organize your apps

00:13:58 ◼   ► without organizing them.

00:13:59 ◼   ► So the spatial interface that we've had for ages

00:14:01 ◼   ► where you arrange your home screen

00:14:02 ◼   ► and have these little icons,

00:14:03 ◼   ► Craig made a good point in the presentation,

00:14:05 ◼   ► it's like yeah, most people arrange their first screen

00:14:07 ◼   ► or maybe their first screen or two,

00:14:09 ◼   ► but after that, it's just chaos, right?

00:14:10 ◼   ► Unless you're really obsessive or you have very few apps,

00:14:13 ◼   ► by screen five, things are just a mess.

00:14:16 ◼   ► Now I would say that part of the reason that's true

00:14:19 ◼   ► is trying, as we've mentioned on the show many times,

00:14:21 ◼   ► trying to organize your home screens is a nightmare.

00:14:24 ◼   ► It's a UI nightmare.

00:14:25 ◼   ► See previous episode where I described the experience

00:14:29 ◼   ► in excruciating detail, but it's terrible.

00:14:32 ◼   ► It's a hot potato, there's no place to put things down,

00:14:34 ◼   ► you accidentally drop things, things scooch off the edge,

00:14:36 ◼   ► it's terrible.

00:14:37 ◼   ► You used to be able to arrange your home screen

00:14:38 ◼   ► in the iTunes interface,

00:14:39 ◼   ► even that wasn't a great interface.

00:14:41 ◼   ► I would kill for a Mac user interface

00:14:45 ◼   ► that lets you rearrange your home screen icons.

00:14:48 ◼   ► Just like a real Mac user interface

00:14:50 ◼   ► that's sort of non-destructive with save

00:14:52 ◼   ► with an area off to the side where you can just chuck things

00:14:55 ◼   ► to keep them in holding patterns

00:14:56 ◼   ► and with like multiple selection ranges

00:14:59 ◼   ► and like just, it's an app for rearranging squares,

00:15:02 ◼   ► literally, that's all it is,

00:15:03 ◼   ► but a decent app for rearranging squares

00:15:07 ◼   ► on a large screen with a mouse and keyboard,

00:15:10 ◼   ► God, I would kill for that.

00:15:11 ◼   ► If that existed, I think people's home screens

00:15:14 ◼   ► would be better organized past the first screen or two.

00:15:17 ◼   ► Widgets will kind of help with that,

00:15:18 ◼   ► but all it will do is let people have even cooler

00:15:22 ◼   ► first one or two or three screens,

00:15:23 ◼   ► but by screen five, it's still gonna be chaos.

00:15:26 ◼   ► So Apple's solution is, you know what,

00:15:27 ◼   ► you can just hide those screens.

00:15:29 ◼   ► You can just say, I don't wanna see in screens five,

00:15:31 ◼   ► six, and seven or whatever of my home screens,

00:15:33 ◼   ► just don't even put them in the little swipey thing.

00:15:36 ◼   ► How will you get to those apps?

00:15:37 ◼   ► Oh, the app library, what has them organized by recency

00:15:40 ◼   ► and by category and there's an alphabeticalist thing.

00:15:42 ◼   ► This is above and beyond the search

00:15:43 ◼   ► where you have to type stuff.

00:15:44 ◼   ► This is like an organized into bins or whatever.

00:15:47 ◼   ► I feel like this is a slight abdication

00:15:49 ◼   ► of Apple's responsibility to make it possible

00:15:51 ◼   ► for human beings to actually organize their app icons.

00:15:54 ◼   ► They're saying, you know what, give up

00:15:56 ◼   ► because we're never gonna make it easy,

00:15:58 ◼   ► so just hide those screens and it's like spatial organization

00:16:01 ◼   ► for screens one, two, and three, and then browser mode

00:16:05 ◼   ► and automatic categorization for the rest.

00:16:07 ◼   ► And maybe that works fine, maybe no one would ever

00:16:09 ◼   ► carefully arrange five screens, but honestly,

00:16:12 ◼   ► I find it frustrating to rearrange my screens one and two.

00:16:14 ◼   ► Often I look at them, I was recently,

00:16:16 ◼   ► speaking of the Hey app, which we're not today,

00:16:18 ◼   ► I was trying to find a place to put the Hey app

00:16:20 ◼   ► because I have an account and I'm in the free trial period

00:16:23 ◼   ► and I wanted to try it out and I didn't want it

00:16:24 ◼   ► to be buried 20 screens ago.

00:16:26 ◼   ► So it's like, oh God, how do I find a place for that

00:16:28 ◼   ► in my screens one and two?

00:16:30 ◼   ► What thing do I move and what am I gonna accidentally

00:16:33 ◼   ► screw up when I move it?

00:16:34 ◼   ► That's just me rearranging the screens

00:16:35 ◼   ► that Craig says that people do arrange.

00:16:37 ◼   ► So I still think this is a problem, but all that aside,

00:16:40 ◼   ► I'm very glad at this, the biggest change to Springboard

00:16:45 ◼   ► in maybe ever, but certainly in the last several years.

00:16:48 ◼   ► So I endorse these changes, I just really do wish

00:16:52 ◼   ► there was an easier way to arrange your home screens.

00:16:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm really curious to see what these widgets

00:16:57 ◼   ► look like for something like Overcast actually

00:17:00 ◼   ► to put Marco on the spot, because my understanding is

00:17:02 ◼   ► there's no way to interact with these widgets.

00:17:05 ◼   ► And presumably in the case of Overcast,

00:17:07 ◼   ► you could just use like a now playing widget

00:17:09 ◼   ► that's like a system level thing.

00:17:11 ◼   ► But let's just for the sake of discussion,

00:17:13 ◼   ► say that that didn't exist.

00:17:14 ◼   ► I don't think Marco, there's any way for you to put

00:17:16 ◼   ► like a play, pause, rewind, fast forward or anything

00:17:18 ◼   ► like that in a widget, which could be extremely useful.

00:17:20 ◼   ► I guess the next best thing you could do is put a list

00:17:23 ◼   ► of podcasts to kind of hop into and play or no,

00:17:25 ◼   ► but I guess that's still interactive too.

00:17:28 ◼   ► That kind of bums me out that there's no interactivity.

00:17:30 ◼   ► It totally makes sense from an engineering perspective,

00:17:32 ◼   ► but from a user perspective, I'd like to be able

00:17:35 ◼   ► to lightly interact with some things.

00:17:37 ◼   ► And I think I'd seen James Thompson say something

00:17:39 ◼   ► about how the pcalc calculator widget wouldn't be possible

00:17:43 ◼   ► for this exact same reason.

00:17:44 ◼   ► And that's, it's fine, but it's a little bit of a bummer.

00:17:46 ◼   ► But on the grand scheme of things,

00:17:48 ◼   ► I'm still really into this widget stuff.

00:17:50 ◼   ► I think the app catalog, whatever app library thing

00:17:52 ◼   ► sounds good too, because as Craig put it,

00:17:55 ◼   ► jiggle mode is a little bit challenging to say the least,

00:17:58 ◼   ► just like you were saying, Jon.

00:17:59 ◼   ► So all in all, the new springboard stuff looks real good.

00:18:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it's useful, as we alluded to earlier,

00:18:06 ◼   ► it's useful to think of the new widgets

00:18:07 ◼   ► more like watch complications than like miniature

00:18:11 ◼   ► app interfaces, because they are, I mean,

00:18:14 ◼   ► and again, this could change as we learn more about them

00:18:17 ◼   ► and as we get time to play with them as developers

00:18:19 ◼   ► and maybe changes happen over the summer.

00:18:20 ◼   ► But it sure seems actually in many ways less functional

00:18:24 ◼   ► than the previous widgets have been.

00:18:26 ◼   ► And by the way, Overcast has a widget that no one uses it

00:18:30 ◼   ► because it's not very useful, but I have a widget.

00:18:33 ◼   ► It has a play/pause button.

00:18:34 ◼   ► Getting that to work was a crazy hack,

00:18:37 ◼   ► but it has a play/pause button and it does show

00:18:39 ◼   ► like the next two or three upcoming podcasts

00:18:42 ◼   ► and a play/pause button and that's it.

00:18:44 ◼   ► But almost no one uses it because it's kind of awkward

00:18:46 ◼   ► to use widgets in the previous versions of iOS.

00:18:50 ◼   ► So I think, I honestly can't think of a good reason

00:18:53 ◼   ► to have one in this new system for Overcast.

00:18:55 ◼   ► I don't think it makes sense unless I would,

00:18:57 ◼   ► again, like I could show the next upcoming podcast,

00:18:59 ◼   ► but if I can't tell which one you tapped on,

00:19:00 ◼   ► if you tap on it, then that's not of much use.

00:19:03 ◼   ► So I'm probably just not gonna have a widget

00:19:06 ◼   ► in the new system, but I'm looking forward

00:19:08 ◼   ► to what other types of apps are able to do with them.

00:19:11 ◼   ► I've never been a heavy widget user,

00:19:13 ◼   ► but I would love to do things like have a weather widget

00:19:15 ◼   ► showing on my home screen.

00:19:16 ◼   ► Like there are certain things like weather

00:19:17 ◼   ► that I just always want to be displayed.

00:19:19 ◼   ► Maybe, you know, like there were some of the examples

00:19:21 ◼   ► they were showing, like showing your upcoming calendar

00:19:23 ◼   ► events, that's stuff I would actually use.

00:19:26 ◼   ► And so I'm looking forward to just having a new fun thing

00:19:31 ◼   ► to play with, and yes, Android people, I know,

00:19:34 ◼   ► you did it first, Opera did it first, et cetera, I know,

00:19:37 ◼   ► but this is new to us, so we're gonna be super excited.

00:19:40 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:19:41 ◼   ► And this is actually not the first Android thing

00:19:44 ◼   ► that is now gonna be new to us,

00:19:45 ◼   ► that we'll get to more in a little while.

00:19:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that because these widgets are, you know,

00:19:49 ◼   ► seem like they're not particularly interactive right now,

00:19:52 ◼   ► it doesn't mean they'll stay that way.

00:19:53 ◼   ► Like when they were in the sort of today view,

00:19:55 ◼   ► it kind of made sense that they wouldn't be

00:19:57 ◼   ► constantly interactive, 'cause you don't even see 'em

00:19:58 ◼   ► half the time, they only sort of load on demand.

00:20:00 ◼   ► But if it's gonna be on your home screen all the time,

00:20:02 ◼   ► obviously Apple doesn't want you churning away

00:20:04 ◼   ► and burning CPU, so they're very conservative

00:20:06 ◼   ► with the first implementation, but it wouldn't surprise me

00:20:08 ◼   ► with a few years from now that you can finally get

00:20:11 ◼   ► essentially a now playing screen on the home screen

00:20:14 ◼   ► with active play/pause, fast forward, rewind controls,

00:20:17 ◼   ► and you know, like a tiny miniature interface

00:20:19 ◼   ► to overcast in the home screen.

00:20:20 ◼   ► Does not seem unreasonable for me,

00:20:22 ◼   ► because it would only be running when the screen

00:20:24 ◼   ► is turned on, and when the screen is turned on

00:20:26 ◼   ► and they're on their home screen,

00:20:28 ◼   ► it's not any different than if the screen is turned on

00:20:31 ◼   ► and they happen to be in overcast.

00:20:32 ◼   ► It's the same amount of CPU usage, you know,

00:20:34 ◼   ► if you're like playing audio or something like that.

00:20:35 ◼   ► And speaking of that, to show that they're not afraid

00:20:38 ◼   ► of having things running on top of the home screen

00:20:40 ◼   ► in other places, picture in picture, which you know,

00:20:42 ◼   ► is from the iPad now available on the phone.

00:20:44 ◼   ► So if you're watching some video and you wanna go

00:20:46 ◼   ► someplace else, you can still see the video

00:20:48 ◼   ► in a little floaty window, just like you can on the iPad.

00:20:51 ◼   ► And if they're okay with a bunch of video showing,

00:20:53 ◼   ► I think it should be okay with play, pause,

00:20:56 ◼   ► fast-forward and rewind buttons in a widget.

00:20:58 ◼   ► Neither one is gonna kill your CPU exactly.

00:21:01 ◼   ► So it's nice to see that coming over.

00:21:03 ◼   ► That's sort of like something they had already implemented,

00:21:05 ◼   ► but you know, didn't have on the phone,

00:21:07 ◼   ► because like, oh, the phone is so small.

00:21:08 ◼   ► Would people want that?

00:21:09 ◼   ► Answer, yes, everybody wants that on their phone.

00:21:11 ◼   ► Plus phones are pretty big these days.

00:21:13 ◼   ► - You know, one small thing about the widgets

00:21:14 ◼   ► that I can't let go of apparently,

00:21:16 ◼   ► I think the old API is probably deprecated, right?

00:21:19 ◼   ► And that's also a little bit of a bummer.

00:21:21 ◼   ► Like on my iPad and in Notification Center on my iPhone,

00:21:26 ◼   ► I like using this app, Vidgets, V-I-D-G-E-T-S.

00:21:29 ◼   ► And what that does is it's like an iStat menus

00:21:31 ◼   ► for your phone or your iPad.

00:21:32 ◼   ► And on the iPad, I actually have it on my home screen.

00:21:34 ◼   ► And it's in for someone like me

00:21:36 ◼   ► who has no empathy for the machine, sorry, John.

00:21:38 ◼   ► It actually is very convenient to know

00:21:40 ◼   ► like if I'm actively downloading something

00:21:41 ◼   ► and is it actually going quickly?

00:21:44 ◼   ► And that's not gonna be possible anymore

00:21:46 ◼   ► because that refreshes itself like once a second.

00:21:49 ◼   ► And for all the reasons that you just cited,

00:21:51 ◼   ► you know, it's too computationally expensive,

00:21:52 ◼   ► too energy expensive.

00:21:53 ◼   ► That's not gonna be possible anymore.

00:21:54 ◼   ► And that's too bad.

00:21:55 ◼   ► That being said, I understand why

00:21:58 ◼   ► from an engineering perspective,

00:21:59 ◼   ► and it makes perfect sense.

00:22:01 ◼   ► And I do think that there are probably gonna be

00:22:04 ◼   ► some cool new widgets with new functionality.

00:22:06 ◼   ► And I'm really anxious to see or excited to see

00:22:09 ◼   ► how the auto ordering works on those stacks.

00:22:12 ◼   ► But I should stop belaboring this widget thing.

00:22:14 ◼   ► We should probably keep moving along.

00:22:16 ◼   ► What was the next thing that they talked about?

00:22:20 ◼   ► Translate, actually.

00:22:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, the compact UI for Siri and calls.

00:22:24 ◼   ► Also, the call one has been,

00:22:26 ◼   ► people wanted that since multitasking was introduced.

00:22:29 ◼   ► It's like when a call comes in,

00:22:31 ◼   ► why does it take over my whole screen?

00:22:33 ◼   ► Everything else that happens,

00:22:35 ◼   ► you can have a banner or you can have an alert.

00:22:36 ◼   ► You know, like the modern notification system on iOS

00:22:39 ◼   ► has existed for a long time.

00:22:40 ◼   ► And calls have just said, no, we are something special

00:22:44 ◼   ► because I'm not sure if you know this,

00:22:45 ◼   ► but what you're actually holding

00:22:46 ◼   ► is something we call a phone.

00:22:48 ◼   ► And when you get a call, since I'm a phone,

00:22:50 ◼   ► it's the most important thing that I do.

00:22:52 ◼   ► So I'm gonna black out the whole screen

00:22:54 ◼   ► and nobody likes that.

00:22:55 ◼   ► And other modern smartphones don't do that.

00:22:57 ◼   ► And now the iPhone won't either.

00:22:59 ◼   ► It actually shows as a notification.

00:23:01 ◼   ► Imagine that.

00:23:02 ◼   ► And same thing for Siri.

00:23:04 ◼   ► You can now activate Siri and do things with it

00:23:06 ◼   ► without it blanking over the whole screen.

00:23:08 ◼   ► That may or may not actually make Siri any better.

00:23:12 ◼   ► There's a separate section on Siri supposedly being better.

00:23:15 ◼   ► But yay for catching up with modern practices

00:23:18 ◼   ► in terms of notification UI.

00:23:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm so happy to see this.

00:23:23 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:23:24 ◼   ► - As with many nerds who have been complaining

00:23:25 ◼   ► about this for years, phone calls today are,

00:23:29 ◼   ► there are some special considerations for a call.

00:23:33 ◼   ► Unlike many other notifications that we get,

00:23:34 ◼   ► it is a synchronous thing.

00:23:36 ◼   ► This call is happening right now.

00:23:37 ◼   ► You need to answer it right now.

00:23:38 ◼   ► You can't just wait until later and go.

00:23:40 ◼   ► So there is some degree of special treatment that they need.

00:23:43 ◼   ► And I'm sure there's probably some regulations too

00:23:45 ◼   ► about how calls have to behave on certain phones

00:23:47 ◼   ► in certain countries just from legacy or emergency reasons.

00:23:51 ◼   ► But for the most part, this is a computer that you're using

00:23:55 ◼   ► and you don't want anything to be able to do

00:23:58 ◼   ► a full screen takeover that you didn't tell to happen.

00:24:01 ◼   ► And that's what calls have done until now.

00:24:04 ◼   ► And this also includes FaceTime calls

00:24:06 ◼   ► and anything else that uses the system VoIP API.

00:24:09 ◼   ► A full screen takeover on your computer

00:24:13 ◼   ► that is caused by someone else calling you

00:24:16 ◼   ► that you have no control over,

00:24:19 ◼   ► I mean, in many ways it has been and can be used

00:24:22 ◼   ► as like a DDoS attempt for someone's device.

00:24:24 ◼   ► But it does seem kind of ridiculous to think about

00:24:29 ◼   ► why that would be the case these days.

00:24:30 ◼   ► And so it is wonderful that Apple has finally

00:24:33 ◼   ► recognized that and made this change to be like,

00:24:35 ◼   ► all right, you know what, phone calls are now demoted

00:24:37 ◼   ► a little bit in the UI so that they don't

00:24:40 ◼   ► blackout the entire screen of your phone

00:24:43 ◼   ► whenever some idiot calls you.

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00:26:15 ◼   ► Translate, Translate looked really cool.

00:26:17 ◼   ► I know that Google Translate is a thing.

00:26:18 ◼   ► I know it's very good.

00:26:19 ◼   ► I, as with everyone, haven't had the opportunity

00:26:22 ◼   ► to use any sort of translation service for a while.

00:26:25 ◼   ► But it looks really, really neat.

00:26:27 ◼   ► The one thing I wish is that when you were doing

00:26:30 ◼   ► the conversational mode, it seemed like it would be

00:26:32 ◼   ► the perfect opportunity to put your phone in landscape

00:26:35 ◼   ► and set it between you and the person.

00:26:37 ◼   ► And I feel like the opposite person's UI

00:26:41 ◼   ► should be flipped 180 degrees.

00:26:43 ◼   ► Does that make sense?

00:26:43 ◼   ► Right now, you would have to do the like,

00:26:46 ◼   ► hold it up to your face and then hold it up

00:26:48 ◼   ► to the other person's face so they could read

00:26:49 ◼   ► the translated version of what you said was

00:26:51 ◼   ► and then bring it back to your face

00:26:52 ◼   ► so you can read what they said.

00:26:53 ◼   ► It seems like such a good tabletop sort of mode

00:26:56 ◼   ► where the UI is split in half and one person

00:26:59 ◼   ► gets each half facing the correct way.

00:27:02 ◼   ► But with that quibble aside, it looks really nice.

00:27:04 ◼   ► And all the translation is happening on device now,

00:27:07 ◼   ► which is also excellent.

00:27:09 ◼   ► - I wonder what they're using for the translation.

00:27:11 ◼   ► Like, we're all used to using Google Translate

00:27:13 ◼   ► and doing natural language translation

00:27:15 ◼   ► is actually very tricky and Google has spent a long time

00:27:17 ◼   ► trying to make their translation better.

00:27:18 ◼   ► Apple has it as a feature check mark.

00:27:20 ◼   ► Yeah, we've got translation.

00:27:22 ◼   ► But how, how are they doing it?

00:27:23 ◼   ► Presumably, they're not using Google Translate.

00:27:25 ◼   ► Have they developed it in house?

00:27:26 ◼   ► Did they license something?

00:27:27 ◼   ► Is it as good as Google's engine?

00:27:28 ◼   ► This is always the question with all these things.

00:27:30 ◼   ► So I'm glad Apple has checked that box.

00:27:32 ◼   ► I hope they continue to improve Translate.

00:27:35 ◼   ► You're just, we're talking about the Translate app,

00:27:37 ◼   ► but translation is also built into Safari.

00:27:40 ◼   ► Strangely, as far as I'm aware,

00:27:42 ◼   ► it's not built into Messages, right?

00:27:44 ◼   ► Am I wrong about that?

00:27:45 ◼   ► - I think that's correct.

00:27:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, I believe it's only in the Translate app

00:27:48 ◼   ► and then separately in Safari.

00:27:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I mean, it seems like a natural inclusion

00:27:51 ◼   ► for a future version of Messages.

00:27:53 ◼   ► So you can have a message conversation

00:27:54 ◼   ► and then just tap on the thing and say,

00:27:56 ◼   ► "Please translate this," but we'll see.

00:27:57 ◼   ► But anyway, it's good that Apple is another catch up

00:28:00 ◼   ► in this area.

00:28:01 ◼   ► And surprisingly, like for the Safari thing,

00:28:04 ◼   ► that's one of the features I hear cited a lot.

00:28:06 ◼   ► It's also one of the reasons I go to Chrome.

00:28:08 ◼   ► Like, I'm, you know, I use Chrome for some things

00:28:09 ◼   ► in Safari for others, but sometimes I'll be using,

00:28:11 ◼   ► you know, one of the things I use Safari for,

00:28:13 ◼   ► I'll be doing that, and I'll land on a page

00:28:15 ◼   ► that I need translated, and I could just go

00:28:17 ◼   ► to translate.google.com and put it in the URL

00:28:19 ◼   ► and blah, blah, blah, but it's so much easier in Chrome

00:28:20 ◼   ► 'cause it just prompts you, and now it's that easy

00:28:22 ◼   ► in Safari, too.

00:28:23 ◼   ► It's, you know, it's a reason a lot of people cite it

00:28:25 ◼   ► for using Chrome, is that, oh, Chrome will translate stuff.

00:28:27 ◼   ► Right, and you can say, "Well, you don't need Chrome

00:28:29 ◼   ► "to translate it, you can, in Safari, just go,"

00:28:31 ◼   ► and they don't wanna hear it.

00:28:32 ◼   ► They're just like, "Chrome just asked me

00:28:33 ◼   ► "if I wanted to translate it and I say yes."

00:28:35 ◼   ► So now, Safari does that, too.

00:28:37 ◼   ► Again, caveats about the potential quality

00:28:39 ◼   ► of the natural language translation, which Google has worked

00:28:41 ◼   ► for years and years on, and Apple just getting started,

00:28:43 ◼   ► but I'm glad the future exists.

00:28:46 ◼   ► - So, messages.

00:28:47 ◼   ► I am really excited about the changes coming to messages.

00:28:51 ◼   ► It seems like they were very polarizing,

00:28:53 ◼   ► and there were a couple of, like, sticks in the mud

00:28:55 ◼   ► that I saw fly by on Twitter that were not into it at all,

00:28:58 ◼   ► but I love the idea that we're gonna have threading.

00:29:01 ◼   ► What were some of the other features that they added?

00:29:03 ◼   ► Oh, pinned conversations. - Pinned conversations,

00:29:05 ◼   ► yeah, and putting little cute photos on your group messages.

00:29:09 ◼   ► I mean, both of those, the pinned and the photos,

00:29:11 ◼   ► are great examples of features that are clearly responses

00:29:15 ◼   ► to how people use messages.

00:29:17 ◼   ► Like, if you're a heavy messages user,

00:29:20 ◼   ► inevitably you have certain message groups

00:29:22 ◼   ► that are just permanent, one for your whole family,

00:29:25 ◼   ► one for a particular group of friends, one for your parents.

00:29:28 ◼   ► And if you're frequently using messages,

00:29:32 ◼   ► a busy day, your parent group could get pushed down,

00:29:34 ◼   ► and you wanna check in with your parents again at night,

00:29:36 ◼   ► and you gotta scroll and find the parent group

00:29:38 ◼   ► or try and type in the names again or something like that.

00:29:41 ◼   ► Having pinned conversations and having cute little icons

00:29:44 ◼   ► for your pinned conversation groups lets you just say,

00:29:46 ◼   ► look, I'm always going to want to talk to my immediate

00:29:49 ◼   ► family, my parent, my in-laws, my group of friends,

00:29:52 ◼   ► my, you know, soccer team, whatever.

00:29:54 ◼   ► Like, just pick a set of those and pin them,

00:29:57 ◼   ► 'cause you're always gonna wanna go back to them,

00:29:58 ◼   ► and then there's everything else.

00:29:59 ◼   ► And then the threading, if you're in a big group

00:30:02 ◼   ► conversation and people are communicating asynchronously,

00:30:05 ◼   ► sometimes you want to respond to something

00:30:08 ◼   ► that was said a long time, it's like the point of threading.

00:30:09 ◼   ► Sometimes you want to say, what are you actually

00:30:11 ◼   ► responding to, what are you saying ha ha to,

00:30:13 ◼   ► what is that lol about, like, I need to know.

00:30:15 ◼   ► So we can, you know, so threads are a thing,

00:30:18 ◼   ► and they can have good implementations and bad, I think.

00:30:20 ◼   ► Today we have enough experience, these type of interfaces,

00:30:24 ◼   ► that you can strike a reasonable balance.

00:30:26 ◼   ► We'll see how, what this balance is,

00:30:27 ◼   ► 'cause they're saying, yes, you can,

00:30:29 ◼   ► essentially threading information will be there,

00:30:31 ◼   ► but the messages will, of course, still appear linearly,

00:30:33 ◼   ► and you can sort of group them by thread,

00:30:35 ◼   ► so I'm not sure about the UI,

00:30:37 ◼   ► but it's kind of like translation.

00:30:39 ◼   ► Any amount of threading is better than none.

00:30:42 ◼   ► If people don't like it, just don't use it,

00:30:44 ◼   ► and it generates to the non-threading form,

00:30:45 ◼   ► but I think people will like it and use it,

00:30:48 ◼   ► again, as evidenced from using things like Slack,

00:30:49 ◼   ► where people were very nervous when threading appeared,

00:30:52 ◼   ► but now people use it in what I think

00:30:55 ◼   ► is a pretty natural way, like,

00:30:58 ◼   ► there's not a lot of threading about threads,

00:30:59 ◼   ► people just sort of use them and understand them

00:31:01 ◼   ► and appreciate them, they haven't overwhelmed Slack

00:31:04 ◼   ► and made it unusable, nor do they go entirely unused,

00:31:08 ◼   ► and I hope messages will turn out the same way.

00:31:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, I like seeing that Apple's really taking messages

00:31:14 ◼   ► as seriously as it deserves,

00:31:17 ◼   ► and there's also, which we'll get to in a little while,

00:31:19 ◼   ► there's the new Messages app on the Mac,

00:31:21 ◼   ► which is now built with Catalyst

00:31:23 ◼   ► and has apparently feature parity with iOS,

00:31:25 ◼   ► which is a first, and what I like about this is,

00:31:28 ◼   ► messages is incredibly highly used.

00:31:31 ◼   ► I mean, even with the stats they gave,

00:31:33 ◼   ► that kind of blew my mind, they said that there's a

00:31:35 ◼   ► 40% increase in messages sent since last year,

00:31:38 ◼   ► and twice as many group messages,

00:31:40 ◼   ► so that's kind of incredible for one year of growth

00:31:42 ◼   ► on something that's a pretty mature platform,

00:31:45 ◼   ► but messages are so big, so I see, with Overcast,

00:31:49 ◼   ► one of the analytics that I capture is,

00:31:51 ◼   ► when you do a share with the activity sheet,

00:31:54 ◼   ► I save as an analytic, like,

00:31:56 ◼   ► what type of shared destination did you use?

00:31:58 ◼   ► So it's things like copy to clipboard,

00:32:00 ◼   ► send to messages, that kind of stuff,

00:32:02 ◼   ► and send to messages destroys everything else.

00:32:05 ◼   ► It is so much more, so far and above,

00:32:08 ◼   ► well more used than any other kind of

00:32:12 ◼   ► shared destination in the app.

00:32:14 ◼   ► And so, and like, when I designed the share panel,

00:32:17 ◼   ► I was thinking people would be like

00:32:18 ◼   ► sharing social networks and everything,

00:32:20 ◼   ► and they do, but it's nowhere close to messages.

00:32:24 ◼   ► Like, not even close.

00:32:26 ◼   ► I think we, as like podcasters and, you know,

00:32:30 ◼   ► public Twitter personalities, I think we,

00:32:33 ◼   ► we might underestimate how many people

00:32:36 ◼   ► communicate with their friends and family

00:32:38 ◼   ► only via messages and stuff, as opposed to doing anything

00:32:42 ◼   ► on the public social networks,

00:32:43 ◼   ► or they do so much more of it in messages

00:32:45 ◼   ► than on public social networks.

00:32:46 ◼   ► It's so big, and so for Apple to invest in it seriously,

00:32:50 ◼   ► and not to just let it languish and let it fall behind

00:32:53 ◼   ► alternatives like WhatsApp and stuff like that,

00:32:55 ◼   ► is really important, and so I'm glad to see

00:32:57 ◼   ► they're doing that here.

00:32:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, Apple has said in years past

00:33:00 ◼   ► that messages is the most used app on the entire phone.

00:33:03 ◼   ► Like, you remember we were saying, it's a phone,

00:33:04 ◼   ► so it should have the phone message taken over.

00:33:06 ◼   ► Really what it essentially is, is a messaging device.

00:33:09 ◼   ► Like, that's basically what people use their phone for.

00:33:12 ◼   ► They don't use it for phone calls,

00:33:13 ◼   ► they don't use it to browse the web or read Twitter,

00:33:16 ◼   ► and like, if you had to say to a first approximation,

00:33:18 ◼   ► what are these devices for?

00:33:19 ◼   ► Again, just go into public, when you can someday again,

00:33:22 ◼   ► and look at what people are doing on their phone.

00:33:25 ◼   ► Chances are good they're using messages.

00:33:26 ◼   ► It is the most popular app by a lot.

00:33:29 ◼   ► So, yeah, I always felt like their conservatism

00:33:32 ◼   ► with the evolution of messages is very similar

00:33:35 ◼   ► to the home screen, which obviously is not really an app,

00:33:38 ◼   ► but everyone uses, you have no choice,

00:33:40 ◼   ► it's there when you turn on your phone.

00:33:42 ◼   ► You don't wanna screw it up, and in the case of messages,

00:33:46 ◼   ► it's a high volume service, and history has shown

00:33:50 ◼   ► that making changes to it is a little bit fraught.

00:33:53 ◼   ► Witness messages in the cloud, which was delayed on release

00:33:56 ◼   ► and I think is still a little bit buggy.

00:33:58 ◼   ► So you really don't wanna mess it up,

00:34:00 ◼   ► but you do have to try and kinda key up with the Joneses.

00:34:03 ◼   ► So I think Apple is still lagging behind

00:34:05 ◼   ► and is still not able to confidently make

00:34:09 ◼   ► these kinds of changes.

00:34:11 ◼   ► Every time they make one,

00:34:11 ◼   ► we're all nervous that it's gonna screw up,

00:34:13 ◼   ► but it is important for them to keep trying.

00:34:15 ◼   ► So thumbs up on this change.

00:34:17 ◼   ► Hopefully it doesn't, hopefully it's stable and works well.

00:34:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, the one change that I'm most excited for

00:34:23 ◼   ► is threading because on some group text messages

00:34:26 ◼   ► or group iMessages, I should say,

00:34:28 ◼   ► there are definitely times that I get a little lost,

00:34:30 ◼   ► especially if I'm coming back to something later.

00:34:32 ◼   ► So I have a group thread or a group chat

00:34:37 ◼   ► with a couple of other car nerd friends of mine,

00:34:39 ◼   ► not you guys, and there's oftentimes

00:34:43 ◼   ► where one of us will come back,

00:34:45 ◼   ► not having seen the chat for a couple hours,

00:34:47 ◼   ► and the two remaining people will have been chatting

00:34:50 ◼   ► for the last two hours and there'll be 50 messages there.

00:34:53 ◼   ► And often I wanna reply, if it's me that's coming back to it,

00:34:55 ◼   ► I wanna reply to something that happened way back when,

00:34:58 ◼   ► and that's very hard to do without reestablishing

00:35:01 ◼   ► a new context and so on and so forth.

00:35:03 ◼   ► And so I'm really excited for threads.

00:35:06 ◼   ► However, I just recently was trying to send a Twitter link

00:35:11 ◼   ► to a group chat that was myself

00:35:16 ◼   ► and just a couple other people.

00:35:18 ◼   ► And so I went and I looked for the icon that was myself

00:35:23 ◼   ► and one of the people in this group chat.

00:35:26 ◼   ► It just so happened to be my brother-in-law.

00:35:28 ◼   ► So I look for an icon that has like my brother-in-law

00:35:30 ◼   ► and a little teeny blob,

00:35:32 ◼   ► and you'll have several circles for the group chats

00:35:34 ◼   ► and the little teeny blob of his picture.

00:35:36 ◼   ► And I just quickly went there, pasted and hit send.

00:35:40 ◼   ► And then I realized I had sent to a different chat

00:35:43 ◼   ► that was much wider, that had many more people

00:35:46 ◼   ► than just him in it, he was in the other one,

00:35:48 ◼   ► but I misfired on account of just looking for him

00:35:51 ◼   ► and then immediately firing.

00:35:53 ◼   ► And it was not the sort of thing that I wanted to misfire

00:35:55 ◼   ► to this larger group, and I'm not going to give

00:35:56 ◼   ► any more details than that, but I felt real dumb

00:35:59 ◼   ► and I really regretted it.

00:36:00 ◼   ► So being able to have a special image for group chats

00:36:05 ◼   ► that you can actually add in and specify is awesome.

00:36:08 ◼   ► With all that said though, the only problem here

00:36:11 ◼   ► is that this particular, my particular brother-in-law

00:36:15 ◼   ► is an Android user.

00:36:16 ◼   ► And so I'm assuming that since we can't even rename

00:36:19 ◼   ► group chats that are SMS or I guess MMS only,

00:36:22 ◼   ► I'm assuming none of these features will be coming

00:36:24 ◼   ► to the messages representation of group MMSs,

00:36:28 ◼   ► and so I'm still screwed either way.

00:36:30 ◼   ► - I'm actually really curious what you sent him.

00:36:32 ◼   ► Like the less you say about it,

00:36:34 ◼   ► the more suspicious it becomes.

00:36:36 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:36:37 ◼   ► Maybe I don't want to know.

00:36:38 ◼   ► - No, I'll tell you after the show.

00:36:39 ◼   ► - Oh God.

00:36:40 ◼   ► - But yeah, I'm really excited for all the messages changes.

00:36:42 ◼   ► I'm super duper excited to hear that there's parody

00:36:45 ◼   ► on Mac OS, Big Sur, spoiler alert,

00:36:47 ◼   ► or Bug Sur, depending on who you ask.

00:36:49 ◼   ► But anyways--

00:36:50 ◼   ► - What an amazing typo.

00:36:52 ◼   ► - Oh God, what a good typo.

00:36:53 ◼   ► But anyway, I'm really excited for that.

00:36:55 ◼   ► Trying to plow right along as quickly as possible.

00:36:57 ◼   ► Maps got some updates, including cycling directions

00:36:59 ◼   ► and EV routing, two things I don't care about.

00:37:01 ◼   ► Now Marco, I know you are super excited

00:37:03 ◼   ► about the EV routing changes,

00:37:04 ◼   ► especially while you use CarPlay in your, oh, sorry.

00:37:08 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:37:09 ◼   ► - Tesla's already got EV routing that's customized to it,

00:37:12 ◼   ► so he's not really missing out on that,

00:37:13 ◼   ► but it is a continued shame that Tesla hasn't found a way

00:37:16 ◼   ► to square that circle with CarPlay.

00:37:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's basically, it's adding to apparently

00:37:21 ◼   ► just BMWs and Fords so far, but more cars coming later,

00:37:25 ◼   ► the ability to build in charging stops to your routes,

00:37:29 ◼   ► which is what Tesla's map and its cars

00:37:31 ◼   ► have done since day one.

00:37:32 ◼   ► So it's nice, I can tell you, that's a wonderful feature.

00:37:36 ◼   ► It is very nice, it won't affect me at all,

00:37:37 ◼   ► but it is very nice, and yeah, man, it really stung,

00:37:41 ◼   ► we'll get to CarPlay in a second,

00:37:42 ◼   ► it really stung when Craig said about CarPlay,

00:37:44 ◼   ► it's available on basically every new car.

00:37:47 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:37:50 ◼   ► I think Tesla might be the only remaining holdout

00:37:52 ◼   ► of any major car brand now, like I'm pretty sure,

00:37:56 ◼   ► I can't think of any other car brand

00:37:58 ◼   ► that does not offer CarPlay at all.

00:37:59 ◼   ► I mean, hell, Porsche even offers it

00:38:01 ◼   ► for their cars made in the '60s.

00:38:02 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:38:04 ◼   ► We can't even get it on Tesla.

00:38:05 ◼   ► And that is becoming increasingly a problem

00:38:09 ◼   ► for Apple people who have Teslas.

00:38:11 ◼   ► Whatever is causing them to not wanna do that,

00:38:16 ◼   ► I wish they would work it out.

00:38:18 ◼   ► - Moving right along, we can talk about the Home app,

00:38:21 ◼   ► and it's getting adaptive lighting,

00:38:23 ◼   ► which is I guess sort of kind of,

00:38:25 ◼   ► but not really night shift, but for your physical lights

00:38:28 ◼   ► instead of your computer and your other devices,

00:38:32 ◼   ► which is pretty cool.

00:38:33 ◼   ► The face recognition thing, so I think I blanked

00:38:35 ◼   ► when that was coming across, so it won't alert

00:38:38 ◼   ► when it sees somebody that it knows at your front door,

00:38:41 ◼   ► is that correct?

00:38:42 ◼   ► - It will alert and tell you who it is.

00:38:45 ◼   ► - Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:38:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is like feature parody,

00:38:48 ◼   ► a lot of these home features are sort of feature parody

00:38:50 ◼   ► and APIs for things that are just expected

00:38:52 ◼   ► from home automation.

00:38:53 ◼   ► This is more catch-up stuff, like in any sort of

00:38:56 ◼   ► camera system, probably has some kind of

00:38:58 ◼   ► face recognition in the library,

00:38:59 ◼   ► and this is HomeKit support for that.

00:39:02 ◼   ► Activity zones specify the region of the camera's view

00:39:06 ◼   ► that you're actually interested in.

00:39:08 ◼   ► More catch-up features, but these are sort of necessary

00:39:11 ◼   ► stuff to be a player in this game that you have to support,

00:39:15 ◼   ► so good on Apple for catching up.

00:39:18 ◼   ► I'm really curious to see how this works,

00:39:19 ◼   ► because I have some Nest cameras,

00:39:22 ◼   ► and first of all, their zone detection is garbage,

00:39:27 ◼   ► and their motion detection and everything,

00:39:30 ◼   ► their Nest cameras seem unaware that the sun

00:39:34 ◼   ► moves throughout the day, and as a result,

00:39:38 ◼   ► shadows happen and shadows move across rooms

00:39:41 ◼   ► very slowly throughout the day as well,

00:39:44 ◼   ► and Nest's face recognition is also total garbage.

00:39:47 ◼   ► So I'm really curious to see how this works out

00:39:49 ◼   ► in practice with these products.

00:39:51 ◼   ► This has been the kind of thing that companies

00:39:53 ◼   ► have advertised for years, as John said.

00:39:56 ◼   ► There used to even be apps for your Mac

00:39:58 ◼   ► to let your Mac webcam do many of these same functionalities.

00:40:01 ◼   ► They've never worked that well.

00:40:03 ◼   ► So yeah, this is very much a wait and see for me.

00:40:06 ◼   ► Certainly, this is the kind of thing like,

00:40:08 ◼   ► you'd expect Nest being Google-owned

00:40:10 ◼   ► to be good at that kind of stuff, and they're super not.

00:40:13 ◼   ► So we will see, I hope it works out well.

00:40:16 ◼   ► Also, I thought it was very entertaining

00:40:18 ◼   ► that during this home segment, I'm pretty sure

00:40:20 ◼   ► Casey's garage door opener Raspberry Pi was Sherlock'd.

00:40:23 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:40:25 ◼   ► - You know, everyone has been saying that,

00:40:27 ◼   ► but I have had a Homebridge-powered home kit front end

00:40:32 ◼   ► for my Raspberry Pi garage door opener doohicker

00:40:38 ◼   ► since, I don't know, like a week or so after I installed

00:40:41 ◼   ► just the Raspberry Pi detection and the LED thing.

00:40:44 ◼   ► So I'm not entirely clear what this is buying me

00:40:47 ◼   ► other than more prominence, and I guess maybe alerting

00:40:51 ◼   ► if the garage door's left open.

00:40:52 ◼   ► Is that the only new stuff?

00:40:54 ◼   ► - I don't know, it breezed by really fast,

00:40:57 ◼   ► so it's a little hard to know yet.

00:40:59 ◼   ► - I think it is alerting, which coincidentally,

00:41:01 ◼   ► I don't think I talk about this on the show,

00:41:02 ◼   ► but I did set up a home kit automation

00:41:07 ◼   ► that when it detects that everyone has left the house,

00:41:12 ◼   ► it will then read the state of the garage door,

00:41:16 ◼   ► and it will send me a push notification saying either,

00:41:19 ◼   ► you know, you're good, the garage door's closed,

00:41:20 ◼   ► or oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, it's open.

00:41:22 ◼   ► And that's actually a fairly challenging thing to do,

00:41:24 ◼   ► because using the out of the box shortcuts functionality,

00:41:29 ◼   ► you can't send a push notification based on a home kit event.

00:41:33 ◼   ► So what I'm actually doing is calling an API

00:41:37 ◼   ► that I have on my server via HTTP

00:41:40 ◼   ► that's then basically just proxying that to PushOver,

00:41:43 ◼   ► which is a really cool app that has its own front end

00:41:46 ◼   ► to sending push notifications to your phone.

00:41:47 ◼   ► So when the last, between Aaron and I,

00:41:50 ◼   ► when the last of us leaves,

00:41:52 ◼   ► the home kit will check the state of the garage door,

00:41:53 ◼   ► make an HTTP request to my server,

00:41:55 ◼   ► which makes a HTTP request to PushOver.

00:41:57 ◼   ► I guess I could skip that hop, but my API is--

00:42:00 ◼   ► - This is so complicated.

00:42:01 ◼   ► - It's the most casey answer,

00:42:03 ◼   ► the solution to this problem ever.

00:42:05 ◼   ► But anyways, my API's so much simpler.

00:42:08 ◼   ► And so it'll send a push notification to my phone,

00:42:10 ◼   ► which is super cool, and I was very proud

00:42:11 ◼   ► of figuring out a way to get around the limitation

00:42:13 ◼   ► that you can't send yourself a push from a home kit,

00:42:17 ◼   ► from a home kit automation.

00:42:18 ◼   ► Anyway, it is super cool that they're getting

00:42:22 ◼   ► a little bit more support for that sort of thing.

00:42:24 ◼   ► Moving on, let's talk about CarPlay,

00:42:26 ◼   ► because it makes me so happy to hear you suffer.

00:42:29 ◼   ► I mean, it makes me so happy.

00:42:30 ◼   ► - You jumped ahead, you skipped CarKey, the App Store,

00:42:34 ◼   ► iPad OS, AirPods, WatchOS, and Privacy.

00:42:37 ◼   ► - Can I skip all, I'm just going off the show notes, man.

00:42:39 ◼   ► - No, you're not following in the notes document.

00:42:41 ◼   ► Mark, you don't know what's going on.

00:42:42 ◼   ► - No, I'm following keynote order.

00:42:44 ◼   ► - Well, okay, so the key, we're,

00:42:46 ◼   ► the document is taking precedence here,

00:42:49 ◼   ► because we're gonna skip stuff in the keynote.

00:42:52 ◼   ► But if you have better notes,

00:42:53 ◼   ► you could have put them into the document.

00:42:54 ◼   ► - Okay, we know, your document knows better than Apple

00:42:57 ◼   ► what order things should be presented in.

00:42:58 ◼   ► - No, I'm just saying that the document

00:43:00 ◼   ► is what Casey's going off of,

00:43:01 ◼   ► and he can't see what you're looking at.

00:43:03 ◼   ► - Thank you, John.

00:43:04 ◼   ► - If you had put what you're looking at in the document,

00:43:06 ◼   ► then we could all see it.

00:43:07 ◼   ► - It was broadcast to the world.

00:43:09 ◼   ► - I know.

00:43:10 ◼   ► - All right, we'll bicker about it later.

00:43:11 ◼   ► We'll bicker about it later.

00:43:12 ◼   ► But the next thing in the document is CarPlay.

00:43:14 ◼   ► - You can reorder it in the edit.

00:43:15 ◼   ► You have ultimate power here, Mark.

00:43:16 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:43:18 ◼   ► - Oh no.

00:43:19 ◼   ► The next thing in the document is CarPlay,

00:43:21 ◼   ► and I guess there is some new,

00:43:23 ◼   ► some support for some new styles of app.

00:43:25 ◼   ► I think they said, like, basically fast food apps

00:43:27 ◼   ► you can now put in CarPlay,

00:43:29 ◼   ► which I'm not entirely clear why, but whatever.

00:43:30 ◼   ► - EV charging apps.

00:43:31 ◼   ► - EV charging, there were a couple others.

00:43:34 ◼   ► Yeah, parking, EV charging, and quote, quick food ordering.

00:43:38 ◼   ► Whatever, however that's defined.

00:43:40 ◼   ► So yeah, that's cool.

00:43:41 ◼   ► - They also did a demonstration of car,

00:43:44 ◼   ► I don't know what the Apple marketing term is,

00:43:46 ◼   ► but basically you can unlock your car with your phone.

00:43:47 ◼   ► - Car key.

00:43:49 ◼   ► - Car key, okay, there you go.

00:43:50 ◼   ► - Yep, and does that use the U1 thing?

00:43:52 ◼   ► - No, so they said, so the first version of it

00:43:55 ◼   ► that's going on the 2021 BMW 5 series does not use the U1.

00:44:00 ◼   ► It seems to be using something much closer,

00:44:03 ◼   ► maybe NFC based it seems,

00:44:05 ◼   ► because you have to be very close to it.

00:44:07 ◼   ► But then they said at the end, they said that

00:44:09 ◼   ► in the future, future integrations will use the U1

00:44:13 ◼   ► so that you can keep your phone in your bag

00:44:15 ◼   ► or in your pocket and not place it directly against the door.

00:44:19 ◼   ► So it does seem like it's probably NFC based to start

00:44:22 ◼   ► and will be enhanced with the U1.

00:44:23 ◼   ► 'Cause what they need is,

00:44:25 ◼   ► they don't wanna use something like Bluetooth

00:44:27 ◼   ► because Bluetooth can have things like,

00:44:30 ◼   ► first of all it could be too long range

00:44:32 ◼   ► and there could be issues with like,

00:44:34 ◼   ► somebody could set up like a Bluetooth repeater

00:44:36 ◼   ► or something, so if you're in a restaurant,

00:44:38 ◼   ► they could set up like a repeater outside the window

00:44:40 ◼   ► and unlock your car from further away

00:44:42 ◼   ► than you actually are and drive off.

00:44:44 ◼   ► Well, the ultra wide band in U1, it's immune to that.

00:44:47 ◼   ► Like it can't have those kind of attacks.

00:44:49 ◼   ► It's like the way it works, it can detect that

00:44:51 ◼   ► and rule those out.

00:44:52 ◼   ► And so they need to use, I'm guessing what they're using

00:44:55 ◼   ► is NFC for this first version

00:44:58 ◼   ► because that is like only close proximity

00:45:01 ◼   ► and it's easier to enforce that way.

00:45:02 ◼   ► Whereas once they have a better integration

00:45:04 ◼   ► using the U1 chip, they can detect like,

00:45:07 ◼   ► okay this is in your pocket,

00:45:08 ◼   ► so it's maybe 12 inches away from the receiver

00:45:11 ◼   ► but that's close enough, we'll let it unlock.

00:45:13 ◼   ► So, but that is, they didn't give a date for that.

00:45:16 ◼   ► They just kinda said like, soon.

00:45:18 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:45:19 ◼   ► Safari, some pretty big changes to Safari.

00:45:22 ◼   ► The thing, it made me so happy

00:45:24 ◼   ► and oh, the schadenfreude was so strong.

00:45:28 ◼   ► Just watching them discuss the privacy report feature.

00:45:32 ◼   ► So this is a new thing where you can,

00:45:34 ◼   ► on any website I guess, you can go and look at

00:45:37 ◼   ► what Safari thinks it's doing,

00:45:39 ◼   ► the website is doing in terms of tracking you.

00:45:41 ◼   ► And so, there was an example, like a quick demo on stage

00:45:45 ◼   ► and they said, or in the video or whatever,

00:45:48 ◼   ► and they said, okay let's see what's tracking us.

00:45:49 ◼   ► And right there is DoubleClick and Google Analytics

00:45:52 ◼   ► like featured front and center.

00:45:54 ◼   ► Which was so amazing.

00:45:55 ◼   ► But basically this will let you see

00:45:57 ◼   ► what is a website trying to do

00:45:58 ◼   ► or how many different trackers there are

00:46:00 ◼   ► and I guess not what they're doing with your information

00:46:02 ◼   ► but how many people are trying to slurp up your information.

00:46:05 ◼   ► And I think part of the reason,

00:46:07 ◼   ► this is not a very earth-shattering idea

00:46:10 ◼   ► but I think part of the reason why websites

00:46:12 ◼   ► can get away with slurping up all this data

00:46:13 ◼   ► is because most people, even I as a developer

00:46:17 ◼   ► and former web developer, I don't really have a good view

00:46:21 ◼   ► for how much data is being sucked up

00:46:23 ◼   ► every time I go to a website.

00:46:25 ◼   ► And so, I think making this more prominent

00:46:29 ◼   ► is presumably going to have,

00:46:32 ◼   ► and hopefully going to have a tangible impact

00:46:35 ◼   ► on a lot of websites.

00:46:36 ◼   ► Now, it may be that the only impact is

00:46:37 ◼   ► instead of using third-party stuff

00:46:39 ◼   ► that all becomes first-party and it's all proxied out

00:46:41 ◼   ► and it gets even grosser.

00:46:44 ◼   ► But in the same way that like the location services prompts

00:46:47 ◼   ► made it more obvious and the Bluetooth prompts

00:46:49 ◼   ► made it more obvious when an iOS app

00:46:52 ◼   ► was trying to do something that could,

00:46:54 ◼   ► but not necessarily is, but could be nefarious,

00:46:56 ◼   ► this will hopefully make it much more obvious

00:46:59 ◼   ► when all of these websites are doing things

00:47:01 ◼   ► that are almost exclusively nefarious things.

00:47:03 ◼   ► And so, I am really, really looking forward

00:47:05 ◼   ► to hopefully seeing changes across the web

00:47:07 ◼   ► for the better because of this.

00:47:09 ◼   ► - Well, keep in mind, it's not just telling you

00:47:11 ◼   ► what the trackers are, it's telling you

00:47:12 ◼   ► which trackers it blocked.

00:47:13 ◼   ► They have, you know, their intelligent tracking preventions

00:47:15 ◼   ► that are built into Safari.

00:47:16 ◼   ► You're supposed to look at this and A,

00:47:17 ◼   ► be terrified that all these trackers are there

00:47:19 ◼   ► and B, be thankful that Safari says,

00:47:21 ◼   ► "Look at all these things I blocked for you.

00:47:22 ◼   ► "My intelligent tracking prevention system blocked."

00:47:24 ◼   ► X, Y, Z, you know, like that's the pitch.

00:47:27 ◼   ► So it is both sales pitch and knowledge.

00:47:29 ◼   ► And it's good because if you were to look at this

00:47:32 ◼   ► and just say, "Oh, here are all the trackers."

00:47:33 ◼   ► Your question would be,

00:47:34 ◼   ► "So what am I supposed to do about that?"

00:47:36 ◼   ► Like, I don't like it, what am I supposed to do about it?

00:47:37 ◼   ► Now when you look at it, it will say,

00:47:39 ◼   ► "Here's what Safari already did for you."

00:47:41 ◼   ► And it will make you feel better.

00:47:42 ◼   ► It may also change your opinion of the site

00:47:43 ◼   ► that it had all these things that had to be blocked,

00:47:45 ◼   ► but mostly I think it's building an understanding

00:47:49 ◼   ► in the public, not so much what you're being tracked about,

00:47:52 ◼   ► but the fact that Safari has features that prevent that

00:47:55 ◼   ► and that's why you should use Safari

00:47:56 ◼   ► instead of Chrome or whatever, right?

00:47:58 ◼   ► Whereas if Safari just does that behind the scenes,

00:48:00 ◼   ► which it has been, maybe you don't appreciate that

00:48:03 ◼   ► and it's not like a selling feature of Safari.

00:48:06 ◼   ► Similar to this, another feature that lots of other browsers

00:48:09 ◼   ► have that Safari now has,

00:48:11 ◼   ► which is password compromise detection.

00:48:14 ◼   ► Safari through its key chain integration

00:48:16 ◼   ► will store passwords for various websites

00:48:18 ◼   ► and Apple will now be keeping track

00:48:21 ◼   ► of these big metadata jumps to say,

00:48:24 ◼   ► "We know that this many passwords were leaked

00:48:26 ◼   ► "from this website on this date,"

00:48:28 ◼   ► and they'll just update that database

00:48:30 ◼   ► and they'll be able to tell you,

00:48:31 ◼   ► "By the way, we saw that your email address

00:48:33 ◼   ► "and this password were compromised on this website,

00:48:35 ◼   ► "so you should probably change it."

00:48:36 ◼   ► If you reuse your passwords,

00:48:38 ◼   ► it may be a little bit overwhelming to see,

00:48:41 ◼   ► "Oh my God, I have to change my password on 20 websites

00:48:43 ◼   ► "'cause I use my dog's name as the password

00:48:46 ◼   ► "on all 20 of these websites."

00:48:48 ◼   ► That can be overwhelming

00:48:49 ◼   ► and I don't know if it'll make people

00:48:50 ◼   ► just throw up their hands,

00:48:51 ◼   ► but in theory, if you were using good, unique passwords

00:48:54 ◼   ► for each website, when one gets compromised,

00:48:56 ◼   ► you'll at least know that password is burned

00:48:58 ◼   ► and maybe you should change your password.

00:49:00 ◼   ► And I know from using, I guess, Firefox, maybe Edge,

00:49:03 ◼   ► I don't know, some third-party browsers that are not Safari,

00:49:07 ◼   ► on my Mac, I've gotten these notifications,

00:49:09 ◼   ► mostly for websites that I haven't logged into

00:49:12 ◼   ► since the early 2000s or even the '90s,

00:49:14 ◼   ► but if I get a notification,

00:49:15 ◼   ► I'll go over to it and change the password.

00:49:17 ◼   ► It was probably a garbage password

00:49:19 ◼   ► that I haven't used in a decade anyway,

00:49:21 ◼   ► but it's good to know,

00:49:22 ◼   ► or I'll go over there and close the account.

00:49:23 ◼   ► That's the other reminder.

00:49:24 ◼   ► It's like, "I still have an account on that website?

00:49:25 ◼   ► "Let me just delete that account."

00:49:26 ◼   ► That's another solution to the problem.

00:49:28 ◼   ► So I'm glad this has come to Safari

00:49:29 ◼   ► because it's a useful feature,

00:49:30 ◼   ► but I do worry about regular people being overwhelmed

00:49:33 ◼   ► when the one password they use on every website

00:49:35 ◼   ► is compromised and they're like, "What do I do now?"

00:49:38 ◼   ► Well, what can you do?

00:49:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it's also been a feature of 1Password as well.

00:49:43 ◼   ► Like they check with like, have I been pwned

00:49:45 ◼   ► in the various sources and do a similar warning?

00:49:48 ◼   ► Going back a minute,

00:49:49 ◼   ► just before we leave the privacy warning thing,

00:49:51 ◼   ► first of all, this is basically what the Ghostery plugin did

00:49:54 ◼   ► back forever ago.

00:49:55 ◼   ► It is really nice to see like the list of trackers

00:49:57 ◼   ► on websites that are being blocked

00:50:00 ◼   ► because this is kind of a pattern

00:50:02 ◼   ► that Apple has followed a lot to great success, I think,

00:50:05 ◼   ► where as Casey, you were saying a minute ago

00:50:08 ◼   ► that a lot of times your data's being tracked

00:50:11 ◼   ► or leaked or creepily captured,

00:50:13 ◼   ► and you have no idea

00:50:15 ◼   ► what is just happening behind the scenes

00:50:17 ◼   ► in ways that aren't visible to you.

00:50:19 ◼   ► And one consistent strategy Apple does

00:50:21 ◼   ► in these kind of contexts is shine a light on it

00:50:24 ◼   ► when it happens.

00:50:25 ◼   ► Either to just outright ban or block such behavior,

00:50:30 ◼   ► or in cases where that's impractical or impossible,

00:50:33 ◼   ► Apple likes to reveal that behavior to you

00:50:35 ◼   ► so that you can make decisions

00:50:37 ◼   ► and you can be more in control

00:50:38 ◼   ► and that bad actors can be discovered

00:50:41 ◼   ► and shamed or controlled out of the bad behavior.

00:50:45 ◼   ► And so in this case, web tracker's part of the reason

00:50:48 ◼   ► why it's been such a big business forever,

00:50:51 ◼   ► and continues to be and look needed to be,

00:50:52 ◼   ► is that pages can track all sorts of creepy crap

00:50:55 ◼   ► using JavaScript in the background

00:50:56 ◼   ► that you have no idea is even running.

00:50:58 ◼   ► So anything that shines a light on it

00:51:01 ◼   ► and calls out exactly what it's doing,

00:51:04 ◼   ► any sites or bad actors that care about how they look

00:51:10 ◼   ► and that might hear from the users about what's going on,

00:51:13 ◼   ► they'll be forced to consider better behavior,

00:51:16 ◼   ► and even the ones that don't care,

00:51:17 ◼   ► at least users who care themselves can be more in control,

00:51:20 ◼   ► can see what's going on,

00:51:21 ◼   ► can be more aware of what's happening,

00:51:23 ◼   ► and can maybe take technical countermeasures on their end,

00:51:26 ◼   ► like running a blocker or something like that on their end

00:51:28 ◼   ► to control such things.

00:51:29 ◼   ► So anytime Apple can shine a light on creepy behavior

00:51:33 ◼   ► and put control back in the user's hands,

00:51:35 ◼   ► that's a very good thing,

00:51:36 ◼   ► and it's exactly what they've done here.

00:51:38 ◼   ► And in fact, there's also a thing later on

00:51:39 ◼   ► that I don't think we'll get to separately,

00:51:41 ◼   ► so I'll ruin it here,

00:51:42 ◼   ► we're doing the same thing in iOS 14,

00:51:45 ◼   ► whenever the camera or microphones are being recorded from,

00:51:48 ◼   ► there's now a recording dot in the status bar,

00:51:51 ◼   ► and that's great, 'cause that's another thing that,

00:51:54 ◼   ► they've had the permissions dialogue for,

00:51:57 ◼   ► do you want this app to access the camera and microphone

00:51:59 ◼   ► for a couple years, but once you get permission,

00:52:02 ◼   ► you didn't know when it was doing that.

00:52:04 ◼   ► So for instance, an app like a social network

00:52:06 ◼   ► that records pictures or videos,

00:52:08 ◼   ► you would give it permission,

00:52:09 ◼   ► 'cause obviously you need that to work.

00:52:11 ◼   ► But do you want it to be turning on your microphone

00:52:13 ◼   ► and your camera when you don't know it?

00:52:15 ◼   ► Probably not.

00:52:16 ◼   ► So a very useful thing here to control some privacy,

00:52:20 ◼   ► potential leaks or violations, is give people an indicator.

00:52:23 ◼   ► Same thing with location access,

00:52:24 ◼   ► it's always an indicator.

00:52:25 ◼   ► So yeah, anything that Apple can do to shine a light

00:52:28 ◼   ► on potential privacy invasions or risks

00:52:32 ◼   ► and give users knowledge and control,

00:52:35 ◼   ► that is always successful,

00:52:37 ◼   ► and I'm glad to see that happening in more places.

00:52:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

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00:54:52 ◼   ► - I feel a little bit like I'm in the matrix

00:54:58 ◼   ► for this next item here.

00:54:59 ◼   ► You guys both tell me what I'm misremembering.

00:55:02 ◼   ► Let's talk about App Clips for a second.

00:55:04 ◼   ► I could swear, I'm assuming this was not a dream,

00:55:07 ◼   ► this was reality, that this is a feature

00:55:10 ◼   ► that Apple already had and already announced.

00:55:12 ◼   ► What the heck am I remembering

00:55:13 ◼   ► that it was so similar to this?

00:55:14 ◼   ► - Android. - I haven't had it.

00:55:15 ◼   ► - And yep, Android did this exact same thing.

00:55:18 ◼   ► - I have this distinct memory of an Apple keynote

00:55:20 ◼   ► of them announcing essentially the exact same feature

00:55:23 ◼   ► as App Clips, but not by that name.

00:55:24 ◼   ► I don't know, I'm getting old.

00:55:27 ◼   ► Anyway, App Clips is cool.

00:55:29 ◼   ► If it already exists in an alternate universe,

00:55:32 ◼   ► an alternate version of the matrix,

00:55:34 ◼   ► then that's what I'm remembering and I'm sorry.

00:55:36 ◼   ► But it's a way for you to do a thing with an app

00:55:41 ◼   ► that you don't have installed without the hassle of going,

00:55:44 ◼   ► pulled up to the parking meter,

00:55:45 ◼   ► it says I have to download the whatever app.

00:55:47 ◼   ► Oh, I can use the QR code, always taking me to a webpage.

00:55:50 ◼   ► The webpage has a button, okay, download an app store.

00:55:52 ◼   ► Okay, I'm on the app thing, I'm downloading it.

00:55:54 ◼   ► Okay, I'm opening the app.

00:55:55 ◼   ► Okay, I'm launching it, it wants me to sign in.

00:55:57 ◼   ► Okay, I have to create an account.

00:55:58 ◼   ► All right, I've made the account.

00:55:59 ◼   ► Okay, now I've launched the app.

00:56:01 ◼   ► Now I'll scan the QR code again

00:56:03 ◼   ► and now I can pay for parking.

00:56:04 ◼   ► Oh, now I have to enter my credit card number.

00:56:06 ◼   ► App Clips is trying to stop that from happening.

00:56:08 ◼   ► If anyone has ever tried to use like just that one example,

00:56:11 ◼   ► a parking app, you don't know what the hell

00:56:13 ◼   ► parking app this place is using.

00:56:15 ◼   ► You don't care what parking app it's using.

00:56:16 ◼   ► You just wanna park your car.

00:56:18 ◼   ► So they're trying to streamline that process,

00:56:21 ◼   ► which is pick your phone up and put it close to a thing

00:56:25 ◼   ► or scan a thing or whatever and just immediately say,

00:56:28 ◼   ► we know what app this is supposed to be.

00:56:30 ◼   ► We're not even gonna bother downloading the whole app.

00:56:32 ◼   ► We're just gonna download this tiny portion of the app

00:56:33 ◼   ► that you need to do your parking

00:56:35 ◼   ► and in Apple's perfect world.

00:56:37 ◼   ► We'll integrate with Apple Pay

00:56:38 ◼   ► and we'll integrate with Sign in with Apple.

00:56:40 ◼   ► So you don't need to create an account

00:56:41 ◼   ► and you don't need to enter a credit card number

00:56:43 ◼   ► and it's all secure through things

00:56:44 ◼   ► that you trust Apple to do

00:56:45 ◼   ► and you didn't have to download an entire app.

00:56:47 ◼   ► As one of our friends said in Slack

00:56:48 ◼   ► when the segment came on,

00:56:50 ◼   ► I'm going to delete a ton of parking applications

00:56:53 ◼   ► because you don't need to have the parking application.

00:56:55 ◼   ► You don't need like one parking app for every single thing

00:56:58 ◼   ► and have to constantly be updating them

00:56:59 ◼   ► and God knows what those things are doing.

00:57:01 ◼   ► Just use the app clip.

00:57:02 ◼   ► It's 10 megabytes maximum size.

00:57:05 ◼   ► Apple, of course, being Apple,

00:57:06 ◼   ► has its own special QR code that's round

00:57:09 ◼   ► because QR codes are for squares

00:57:11 ◼   ► and it's got a little picture of a phone in the middle.

00:57:14 ◼   ► It looks a little bit like the maze from Westworld,

00:57:17 ◼   ► but it's somewhat disturbing,

00:57:18 ◼   ► but try not to think about that.

00:57:20 ◼   ► Spoilers for Westworld.

00:57:21 ◼   ► - I thought it looked kind of like the Touch ID thing.

00:57:23 ◼   ► - Yes, it does.

00:57:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's like if your fingers were perfectly round.

00:57:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, and you can get the full version of the app

00:57:31 ◼   ► if you want.

00:57:31 ◼   ► Unfortunately, they can prompt you

00:57:32 ◼   ► to get the full version of the app,

00:57:33 ◼   ► so I'm afraid that every single app clip,

00:57:35 ◼   ► all it's going to do is immediately prompt you

00:57:36 ◼   ► for the full version of the app,

00:57:37 ◼   ► but I'm sure Apple has some kind of countermeasures there.

00:57:40 ◼   ► Things that you do in the little app clip

00:57:42 ◼   ► can be carried over to the full app

00:57:44 ◼   ► so it doesn't just forget that you exist.

00:57:45 ◼   ► It knows what you did previously with it.

00:57:47 ◼   ► And of course, it's not just for parking.

00:57:48 ◼   ► It's for any kind of thing where you don't care enough

00:57:51 ◼   ► about the interaction to become a quote, user of the app.

00:57:54 ◼   ► You just want to do the thing.

00:57:56 ◼   ► I love this feature in principle.

00:57:59 ◼   ► In practice, given that we don't live in an all-Apple world,

00:58:02 ◼   ► I expect to still encounter lots and lots of things

00:58:05 ◼   ► that don't know about app clips.

00:58:08 ◼   ► We still encounter 30-pin connectors in hotels, right?

00:58:10 ◼   ► So I'm not optimistic about app clips

00:58:12 ◼   ► changing my life anytime soon,

00:58:14 ◼   ► but I want to live in that world,

00:58:15 ◼   ► even though it's probably going to be a long time coming.

00:58:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, I would love for this to be a success

00:58:21 ◼   ► the way it was demoed.

00:58:23 ◼   ► I hope that sometime in the next three years,

00:58:27 ◼   ► I have that kind of interaction they demoed.

00:58:29 ◼   ► But I think it will take about that long

00:58:30 ◼   ► before it will happen,

00:58:32 ◼   ► and I think it will also be far from universal

00:58:33 ◼   ► for all those reasons.

00:58:35 ◼   ► I had to use one of those parking apps a couple weeks ago,

00:58:38 ◼   ► and it was from one of the biggest vendors

00:58:42 ◼   ► of such parking meter things,

00:58:43 ◼   ► and the app is a horrendous mess, because of course it is.

00:58:46 ◼   ► And it claims to support Apple Pay,

00:58:48 ◼   ► but the Apple Pay just kept failing for no specified reasons

00:58:51 ◼   ► so I had to enter a credit card and everything.

00:58:52 ◼   ► And it was just, I had an account,

00:58:54 ◼   ► I had to sign in all this crap,

00:58:56 ◼   ► again, all to park at a parking meter

00:58:58 ◼   ► that used to take quarters until a few weeks ago.

00:59:00 ◼   ► So, (laughs)

00:59:03 ◼   ► I would go to the bank and get rolls of quarters

00:59:05 ◼   ► every few months, 'cause it was just easier

00:59:07 ◼   ► than dealing with all these crappy apps.

00:59:11 ◼   ► But yeah, so in an ideal world,

00:59:13 ◼   ► when everyone makes amazing apps

00:59:15 ◼   ► that take advantage of all the Apple's latest technologies

00:59:17 ◼   ► and they actually try to collect

00:59:18 ◼   ► as little information from you as possible,

00:59:20 ◼   ► and they don't want you to create an account,

00:59:21 ◼   ► they don't want to market to you,

00:59:22 ◼   ► and they actually just want things to go quickly,

00:59:24 ◼   ► this will be great.

00:59:25 ◼   ► I hope that world someday exists, today it doesn't.

00:59:28 ◼   ► - There were a couple of interesting things said,

00:59:30 ◼   ► one in the State of the Union,

00:59:30 ◼   ► and one, I believe, in the keynote.

00:59:32 ◼   ► In the keynote, they basically said, in so many words,

00:59:35 ◼   ► that a single entity like Yelp could make branded app clips

00:59:40 ◼   ► for many, many, many, many different restaurants,

00:59:43 ◼   ► which, didn't they go through this big,

00:59:46 ◼   ► what sort of movie for this, this big exodus,

00:59:50 ◼   ► they caused a big exodus of people and developers

00:59:53 ◼   ► who just spit out a zillion copies

00:59:56 ◼   ► of what are effectively the same app.

00:59:58 ◼   ► Several years ago, I thought they really cracked down on that

01:00:00 ◼   ► and now they're basically saying,

01:00:01 ◼   ► "Hey, have fun, do that again."

01:00:02 ◼   ► - Well, I think the way they worded it,

01:00:05 ◼   ► it sounded like they would let Yelp do it

01:00:07 ◼   ► and possibly other partners,

01:00:09 ◼   ► but it didn't sound like anybody

01:00:11 ◼   ► would be able to vend multi-business clips.

01:00:14 ◼   ► It sounded like it was only a thing

01:00:15 ◼   ► that some people would get to do, like Yelp.

01:00:17 ◼   ► - That's not surprising.

01:00:18 ◼   ► And the other thing that was said

01:00:19 ◼   ► during the State of the Union,

01:00:20 ◼   ► it was not mentioned during the keynote,

01:00:21 ◼   ► but I thought it was a very clever solution

01:00:23 ◼   ► to what could be an annoying problem,

01:00:25 ◼   ► is that if I understood it correctly,

01:00:28 ◼   ► all clips get what's called

01:00:31 ◼   ► ephemeral notifications permissions.

01:00:34 ◼   ► So when you use an app clip,

01:00:37 ◼   ► you are automatically giving that app clip

01:00:40 ◼   ► the ability to send you push notifications for eight hours.

01:00:42 ◼   ► And then at the end of those eight hours,

01:00:44 ◼   ► it's automatically revoked

01:00:45 ◼   ► and it can't send you push notifications anymore,

01:00:48 ◼   ► which I thought was really clever

01:00:49 ◼   ► because something like a parking app,

01:00:51 ◼   ► which I cannot agree with you more,

01:00:53 ◼   ► I don't live in a very urban area,

01:00:54 ◼   ► so I almost never run into this,

01:00:55 ◼   ► but the couple of occasions I've gone to places

01:00:58 ◼   ► that do use these things,

01:00:59 ◼   ► it is the most frustrating thing in the world

01:01:00 ◼   ► to have to download the app

01:01:02 ◼   ► and do that whole dance that you described.

01:01:04 ◼   ► But anyways, if you have one of these parking apps

01:01:06 ◼   ► and your time is about to expire,

01:01:08 ◼   ► you're gonna wanna get a push notification saying,

01:01:10 ◼   ► "Holy crap, go get your car."

01:01:11 ◼   ► And so having these clips

01:01:14 ◼   ► have this short-lived notification access,

01:01:17 ◼   ► I think is really smart.

01:01:17 ◼   ► You don't have like a Catalina/Vista style,

01:01:21 ◼   ► "Would you like to give this app permission

01:01:22 ◼   ► to notify you at some point?"

01:01:24 ◼   ► It's just given implicitly.

01:01:27 ◼   ► I do wanna know,

01:01:29 ◼   ► and I'm curious to hear preferably via Twitter

01:01:31 ◼   ► because I don't need a thousand of these same emails,

01:01:33 ◼   ► but for those who do use Android phones,

01:01:35 ◼   ► have you seen slices or whatever the Android equivalent is,

01:01:38 ◼   ► have you seen that be used frequently?

01:01:41 ◼   ► Or was that the,

01:01:43 ◼   ► it was announced a couple of years ago

01:01:44 ◼   ► and did it just flash in the pan and then go away?

01:01:46 ◼   ► I'm very curious if those actually took off

01:01:48 ◼   ► 'cause that's basically our future in a nutshell.

01:01:51 ◼   ► - I was also thinking too,

01:01:53 ◼   ► I hope there's ways that other apps

01:01:56 ◼   ► can use these for good use.

01:01:57 ◼   ► Like I was thinking, 'cause one thing App Clips does,

01:02:00 ◼   ► not only is it useful in the real world,

01:02:02 ◼   ► but it also says you can launch it from Safari,

01:02:04 ◼   ► Messages, stuff like that.

01:02:06 ◼   ► And so I was curious to see if maybe this could be

01:02:10 ◼   ► something like if I could use it as a share link previewer.

01:02:13 ◼   ► So like if Overcast could have a clip

01:02:16 ◼   ► that could play any share link in a really nice way.

01:02:19 ◼   ► But I guess it's-- - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:21 ◼   ► - I suppose I'm supposed to use Messages apps for that,

01:02:24 ◼   ► right, are those still a thing?

01:02:25 ◼   ► I guess those are still a thing.

01:02:27 ◼   ► But I don't know, I'm interested to see

01:02:29 ◼   ► beyond the obvious things of parking meters,

01:02:32 ◼   ► what else can you do with this feature?

01:02:34 ◼   ► 'Cause it is pretty cool.

01:02:35 ◼   ► And again, the parking meter industry

01:02:38 ◼   ► might be very slow to adopt it,

01:02:40 ◼   ► so I'm curious to see what more creative people

01:02:42 ◼   ► can do with it.

01:02:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it's very general purpose.

01:02:45 ◼   ► Like if you look at how it's done,

01:02:46 ◼   ► you make an app clip target,

01:02:47 ◼   ► it's as far as I can tell essentially arbitrary code

01:02:50 ◼   ► within the limits of the available APIs and space,

01:02:53 ◼   ► again, 10 megabytes maximum size.

01:02:55 ◼   ► The notification thing is great, like you said, Casey,

01:02:57 ◼   ► because the whole point of this experience

01:02:59 ◼   ► is not to have to have a million steps.

01:03:02 ◼   ► And so even just asking if we can do notifications

01:03:04 ◼   ► is just one extra step that would make it more of a hassle.

01:03:07 ◼   ► But I do worry about giving any kind of application

01:03:10 ◼   ► implicit permission to give you notifications,

01:03:13 ◼   ► even if it's only for eight hours,

01:03:14 ◼   ► just because it seems like there's potential for abuse

01:03:18 ◼   ► in once, again, Yelp, I don't wanna pick on Yelp,

01:03:21 ◼   ► but a lot of people have some complaints about them.

01:03:23 ◼   ► Once they get in there, for that as eight hours,

01:03:25 ◼   ► they're spamming you with things and making money

01:03:27 ◼   ► by being able to spam you with notifications

01:03:29 ◼   ► that you couldn't stop, because I'm sure you can stop them

01:03:32 ◼   ► if you turn them off somewhere,

01:03:33 ◼   ► but people won't know how to do that.

01:03:35 ◼   ► Anyway, I hope it all works out.

01:03:38 ◼   ► It sounds like a good plan.

01:03:39 ◼   ► It's a feature that the iPhone should have,

01:03:41 ◼   ► because Android's had it forever.

01:03:43 ◼   ► And I hope we can live in a world where parking

01:03:47 ◼   ► gets closer to the role of quarter, a seize of use.

01:03:50 ◼   ► - Real-time follow-up from the chat room,

01:03:52 ◼   ► the handful of Android users that are in there

01:03:54 ◼   ► saying that slices is not a thing as far as they're aware.

01:03:57 ◼   ► Not to say that it literally isn't a thing,

01:03:59 ◼   ► but I mean by that is they don't see slices

01:04:01 ◼   ► in the real world very often.

01:04:03 ◼   ► Or if they do, it's used in some other context,

01:04:04 ◼   ► like you were alluding to, Marco,

01:04:06 ◼   ► that they weren't aware that it was a slice

01:04:07 ◼   ► in the first place.

01:04:09 ◼   ► Moving on, emoji search is apparently going to be a thing

01:04:12 ◼   ► at least on iPad, which is very exciting.

01:04:14 ◼   ► I didn't see any demo of this, I don't think.

01:04:16 ◼   ► I don't know if I just looked away in the half second

01:04:18 ◼   ► that they showed it, but I'm excited that it's at least

01:04:22 ◼   ► theoretically going to be a thing now, because it should be.

01:04:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, I've got that info secondhand too, Marco.

01:04:27 ◼   ► Do you remember it firsthand?

01:04:28 ◼   ► Are we in the chat room, are we making this up?

01:04:29 ◼   ► Emoji search is there, right?

01:04:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, I haven't actually seen it yet.

01:04:33 ◼   ► - It's on iPhone only, not an iPad.

01:04:35 ◼   ► - Oh! - Let me see.

01:04:36 ◼   ► I have it installed.

01:04:37 ◼   ► By the way, I guess this is me admitting,

01:04:40 ◼   ► I've installed beta one on everything

01:04:41 ◼   ► except my main computer.

01:04:43 ◼   ► - Your main computer?

01:04:45 ◼   ► What are you talking about? - Why?

01:04:47 ◼   ► - So, bear with me here.

01:04:49 ◼   ► Oh yeah, here it is, search emoji.

01:04:50 ◼   ► Yep, it's here.

01:04:51 ◼   ► All right, so. - On which device?

01:04:52 ◼   ► - On iPhone with iOS 14.

01:04:54 ◼   ► - But you put iOS 14 on your carry phone?

01:04:58 ◼   ► Are you, do you hate yourself?

01:05:01 ◼   ► Do you like being miserable?

01:05:03 ◼   ► - You've got a vacation brain.

01:05:04 ◼   ► - So here's the thing. - Oh my God.

01:05:06 ◼   ► - Here's the thing, yeah.

01:05:07 ◼   ► I'm at the beach for a while.

01:05:09 ◼   ► - See, I called it. - Right?

01:05:10 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:05:12 ◼   ► - It's an excuse for everything.

01:05:13 ◼   ► Listen, I'm at the beach.

01:05:14 ◼   ► - That's so true, so true. - Explain.

01:05:17 ◼   ► Normally, when the beta one comes out, I am traveling.

01:05:22 ◼   ► 'Cause we're at WBC and we have this busy week

01:05:26 ◼   ► full of all this travel and lots of mobile use

01:05:29 ◼   ► and it's critical that your phone works

01:05:31 ◼   ► while you're traveling and everything.

01:05:32 ◼   ► Right now, I'm just sitting here.

01:05:34 ◼   ► I'm doing very little that requires

01:05:38 ◼   ► my phone to work perfectly.

01:05:40 ◼   ► And I wanted, first of all, Apple's been very aggressive

01:05:45 ◼   ► in recent years about the public beta time

01:05:47 ◼   ► and I wanted to make sure that Overcast worked

01:05:51 ◼   ► with the beta as soon as possible.

01:05:53 ◼   ► The very first thing I did when the beta booted up

01:05:55 ◼   ► earlier today was launch Overcast and start playing around

01:05:57 ◼   ► and just make sure it all works.

01:05:59 ◼   ► Because I know that in, they said quote July

01:06:03 ◼   ► is when the public betas will happen,

01:06:04 ◼   ► including watchOS for the first time ever.

01:06:07 ◼   ► So that could mean two weeks from now.

01:06:10 ◼   ► This could be really soon.

01:06:12 ◼   ► Beta two could be the first public beta.

01:06:15 ◼   ► So I really wanna make sure that I have time on it

01:06:19 ◼   ► before that happens so I can know

01:06:21 ◼   ► whether there's gonna be problems.

01:06:22 ◼   ► Because no matter what people think people should do,

01:06:26 ◼   ► people will put beta, the first public beta,

01:06:28 ◼   ► they will put that on their carry phones

01:06:29 ◼   ► and they will run my app and if it breaks,

01:06:32 ◼   ► they will complain to me and make bad reviews

01:06:34 ◼   ► as opposed to just saying oh it's the beta,

01:06:35 ◼   ► it's my fault, right?

01:06:36 ◼   ► So I need to know that pretty soon.

01:06:38 ◼   ► But yeah, it's mostly because I'm not traveling right now

01:06:40 ◼   ► and I'm not gonna travel for the foreseeable future

01:06:43 ◼   ► because everything.

01:06:44 ◼   ► So it made sense for me, like I wanna dive in head first,

01:06:48 ◼   ► I wanna get going on this, so might as well.

01:06:50 ◼   ► So I put the beta on all of my devices

01:06:53 ◼   ► that I don't necessarily need to function perfectly,

01:06:56 ◼   ► which is everything except my iMac.

01:06:57 ◼   ► So I have it on my 16 inch, iPad Pro, watch and phone.

01:07:02 ◼   ► - You mean like the Xcode beta is what you're talking about.

01:07:04 ◼   ► I was gonna confuse when you're saying you installed

01:07:06 ◼   ► an iOS beta on your Macs.

01:07:07 ◼   ► Like you just made the Xcode, the SDK and everything right?

01:07:10 ◼   ► - And I also, I'm trying to install Big Sur on my 16 inch.

01:07:14 ◼   ► It actually hasn't completed yet and I think it failed,

01:07:16 ◼   ► I have to try it again.

01:07:18 ◼   ► - Equal accent on both syllables I'm gonna say.

01:07:20 ◼   ► - Big Sur?

01:07:22 ◼   ► - Big Sur.

01:07:22 ◼   ► - Big Sur.

01:07:23 ◼   ► - Not Big Sur, not Big Sur.

01:07:25 ◼   ► - Big Sur?

01:07:27 ◼   ► Oh my God, please stop. - Big Sur.

01:07:28 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:07:29 ◼   ► When someone in the presentation said fast company,

01:07:31 ◼   ► I thought the same thing.

01:07:32 ◼   ► He said it like the British would say Top Gear.

01:07:34 ◼   ► He said, fast company, Top Gear.

01:07:36 ◼   ► No, it's fast company, equal emphasis on both syllables.

01:07:39 ◼   ► Top Gear, the way we say it in America.

01:07:41 ◼   ► Anyway.

01:07:42 ◼   ► - So what is the OS supposed to be?

01:07:45 ◼   ► - I think it's Big Sur.

01:07:47 ◼   ► I'm not from there but that's how I would say it.

01:07:49 ◼   ► - You accented the second,

01:07:49 ◼   ► you accented Sir more than the Big there.

01:07:51 ◼   ► - Big Sur, it's equal.

01:07:53 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:07:53 ◼   ► - Every time you said it, it's different.

01:07:56 ◼   ► - Let me give you the two ways, ready?

01:07:57 ◼   ► Big Sur, that's accent on the first one.

01:08:00 ◼   ► Big Sur, accent on the second one.

01:08:02 ◼   ► And Big Sur, equal accent.

01:08:04 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:08:04 ◼   ► It's not equal. - Am I drunk?

01:08:05 ◼   ► What is happening?

01:08:07 ◼   ► And how did I say it?

01:08:08 ◼   ► - You said Big Sur.

01:08:09 ◼   ► - Big Sur. - Like Top Gear.

01:08:10 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:08:12 ◼   ► - We gagged.

01:08:13 ◼   ► - We're not saying Big Sur on this program

01:08:16 ◼   ► unless someone from California tells us

01:08:17 ◼   ► that's how we're supposed to say it.

01:08:18 ◼   ► - This is how it sounds.

01:08:19 ◼   ► We're not gonna say Big Sur, we're gonna say Big Sur.

01:08:21 ◼   ► - Us mispronouncing the name of Mac OS

01:08:23 ◼   ► really says until someone from California

01:08:25 ◼   ► tells us how we're supposed to say it

01:08:26 ◼   ► is part of the experience of Mac OS releases.

01:08:30 ◼   ► - Did you know it's actually called Bondi Beach?

01:08:32 ◼   ► Moving on, so Scribble gets pencil dragged to select text.

01:08:35 ◼   ► - Wait, wait, wait, no, you skipped over Emoji Search.

01:08:37 ◼   ► We got off of this big tangent.

01:08:39 ◼   ► Emoji Search, I feel like there should be

01:08:41 ◼   ► a business tell-all book to explain

01:08:43 ◼   ► why it has taken so long to get an Emoji Search.

01:08:45 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:08:46 ◼   ► This is a major institutional failing of Apple as a company.

01:08:51 ◼   ► It's not a complicated feature.

01:08:53 ◼   ► Everybody needs it.

01:08:55 ◼   ► How long have we all spent scrolling horizontally

01:08:58 ◼   ► through that list trying to find the stupid emoji

01:09:01 ◼   ► with the zipper on the mouth

01:09:02 ◼   ► and there's a million yellow circles and you can't find it.

01:09:05 ◼   ► Emoji Search, why did this take so long?

01:09:09 ◼   ► Not everyone is like Casey who has memorized

01:09:11 ◼   ► the entire grid of umpteen emoji

01:09:13 ◼   ► and knows exactly where it is.

01:09:15 ◼   ► We're all scrolling forever.

01:09:17 ◼   ► What happened?

01:09:18 ◼   ► It doesn't matter now, we've got it now.

01:09:20 ◼   ► It's like, all right, fine, but what happened?

01:09:22 ◼   ► This should be a case study.

01:09:23 ◼   ► Someone from Harvard Business School will look into this.

01:09:25 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:09:27 ◼   ► You can totally ignore the butterfly keyboard era.

01:09:30 ◼   ► Skip all that if you wanna know

01:09:31 ◼   ► why there was no Emoji Search.

01:09:33 ◼   ► We just don't know what happened with Emoji Search.

01:09:35 ◼   ► It makes no sense.

01:09:36 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:09:38 ◼   ► It's such an easy feature.

01:09:39 ◼   ► - Now all kidding aside, is it not on iPad?

01:09:42 ◼   ► Marco, do you have your iPad nearby?

01:09:43 ◼   ► What is the situation on iPad?

01:09:44 ◼   ► - I think it's iPhone only according to the chat room,

01:09:47 ◼   ► which is always right.

01:09:47 ◼   ► - Why?

01:09:48 ◼   ► - I mean, that'll be part of the case study, presumably.

01:09:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, seriously, Harvard Business School,

01:09:53 ◼   ► let's get a report on that.

01:09:54 ◼   ► - As far as I can tell, there's a lot of stuff

01:09:56 ◼   ► that's in iOS 14 that is not in iPad OS,

01:10:00 ◼   ► and the explanation is they didn't get around

01:10:04 ◼   ► to doing it on iPad OS.

01:10:05 ◼   ► In terms of prioritizing, you can imagine

01:10:07 ◼   ► why they would prioritize iOS before it.

01:10:09 ◼   ► Historically, there have been many times

01:10:11 ◼   ► where a feature appears on iOS,

01:10:13 ◼   ► back when it was both on the iPhone and the iPad,

01:10:15 ◼   ► only on the phone and on the iPad.

01:10:17 ◼   ► Those priorities make some sense to me.

01:10:19 ◼   ► Again, you know, emoji search should have been on both devices

01:10:21 ◼   ► years ago, but I think there are similar limitations

01:10:24 ◼   ► in some other features that are available on iOS 14

01:10:27 ◼   ► that are not yet available on iPad OS.

01:10:29 ◼   ► So I'm sure they'll catch up eventually.

01:10:32 ◼   ► - I can verify it is not on iPad.

01:10:34 ◼   ► - Oh, okay, I was just gonna say,

01:10:35 ◼   ► I'm hearing conflicting reports about that,

01:10:37 ◼   ► but if you're saying it's not there, then it's not there.

01:10:39 ◼   ► - I mean, it wouldn't surprise me

01:10:40 ◼   ► if it popped in in a future beta, too.

01:10:41 ◼   ► That's the kind of thing that,

01:10:42 ◼   ► maybe it didn't make beta one.

01:10:44 ◼   ► - That's also true.

01:10:45 ◼   ► Now you did the, what is it, control,

01:10:47 ◼   ► how do I say it, John?

01:10:48 ◼   ► Oh God, I'm gonna get in trouble.

01:10:50 ◼   ► Command, control, space, is that right?

01:10:52 ◼   ► Not control, command, space?

01:10:53 ◼   ► - It's control, delete.

01:10:54 ◼   ► - Command, control, delete.

01:10:56 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:10:57 ◼   ► - Anyway, did you try that three finger gesture, Marco,

01:11:00 ◼   ► on the iPad?

01:11:01 ◼   ► You didn't hit the little globe, you did control.

01:11:03 ◼   ► - Oh no, hold on.

01:11:04 ◼   ► I hit the little globe.

01:11:05 ◼   ► Oh, face ID, microphone's blocking it, hold on.

01:11:08 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:11:10 ◼   ► All right, so I'm gonna hit, so let's see,

01:11:12 ◼   ► command, space, bring it, wait,

01:11:13 ◼   ► command, space is regular.

01:11:14 ◼   ► - Command, control, space,

01:11:15 ◼   ► to bring up the special character thingy.

01:11:17 ◼   ► - Command, control, space, special character thingy,

01:11:20 ◼   ► there is no search box here.

01:11:21 ◼   ► - Huh, okay.

01:11:22 ◼   ► - It is just a little hover over emoji blob.

01:11:25 ◼   ► - Okay, thank you for trying.

01:11:26 ◼   ► Also in the bucket of real time follow up,

01:11:28 ◼   ► Jason Snell, who knows a little bit about California,

01:11:30 ◼   ► says that it is never big sir, it's big sir.

01:11:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, equal emphasis.

01:11:35 ◼   ► - Big sir.

01:11:36 ◼   ► - No, equal, equal emphasis on both.

01:11:38 ◼   ► I would say the same way we say top gear,

01:11:40 ◼   ► but you don't say it that way, we all say top gear,

01:11:42 ◼   ► because we watch the British show and that's ruined us for it.

01:11:45 ◼   ► - See, I'm not sure that I can trust the Californians,

01:11:47 ◼   ► because they also all told us, including Jason,

01:11:49 ◼   ► back in the Mojave times that it was Mojave, not Mojave.

01:11:52 ◼   ► But then like half the year, everybody was saying Mojave,

01:11:55 ◼   ► including some people from California.

01:11:56 ◼   ► - But they were doing it wrong, it is Mojave, he was right.

01:12:00 ◼   ► - But it seems like Californians can't even agree

01:12:02 ◼   ► on their own pronunciations,

01:12:03 ◼   ► 'cause like other Californians were saying Mojave,

01:12:05 ◼   ► other Californians were saying Mojave.

01:12:07 ◼   ► - They're not California natives, they're transplants.

01:12:10 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:12:12 ◼   ► - Oh my goodness, moving on.

01:12:14 ◼   ► All right, so we've got Scribble, which is what,

01:12:17 ◼   ► Inkwell or whatever, or what was the thing in Newton that--

01:12:19 ◼   ► - It's Transcriber from Windows Mobile.

01:12:21 ◼   ► - Oh my goodness. - From 2002.

01:12:23 ◼   ► - Newton did it first, speaking of Opera, yes.

01:12:25 ◼   ► It's yet more features of Newton finding their way

01:12:28 ◼   ► to the iPad, which is great.

01:12:30 ◼   ► Like, you know, it's taken long enough,

01:12:32 ◼   ► but it's definitely great.

01:12:33 ◼   ► Handwriting recognition came, now you can use

01:12:35 ◼   ► your Apple Pencil to enter text into text fields

01:12:38 ◼   ► without tapping the little thing on the keyboard

01:12:40 ◼   ► that comes up, right?

01:12:42 ◼   ► So that's great, and also the drawing,

01:12:44 ◼   ► turning your shapes into perfect shapes.

01:12:46 ◼   ► I remember that being demoed on the Newton in 1990 Mumble.

01:12:50 ◼   ► Here it is on modern iOS devices, and it looks pretty good.

01:12:55 ◼   ► I'll have to try it in the Notes app,

01:12:56 ◼   ► because the Akili heals of all these kind of,

01:12:59 ◼   ► do handwriting and will recognize it and turn it into text

01:13:04 ◼   ► and do drawings and will recognize it and turn it into shapes

01:13:07 ◼   ► is like, you want it to be flexible after that, right?

01:13:11 ◼   ► So they did some demos, like, look, I can swipe select text,

01:13:14 ◼   ► which is a new feature with the Pencil, and move it around,

01:13:16 ◼   ► because I know that it's text and stuff like that.

01:13:19 ◼   ► But, you know, they drew like a pentagon,

01:13:22 ◼   ► and they drew in a line, you know,

01:13:24 ◼   ► that turned into a line with arrow ends.

01:13:25 ◼   ► What if you want to make that line with arrow ends shorter?

01:13:27 ◼   ► How easy is that to do?

01:13:28 ◼   ► Can I grab it, is it a vector that I can shorten it?

01:13:30 ◼   ► Do I erase it with an eraser tool

01:13:31 ◼   ► and squish the two ends together?

01:13:33 ◼   ► Like, stuff like that tends to fall apart

01:13:35 ◼   ► unless there's some, there's considerable effort

01:13:37 ◼   ► put into making it flexible.

01:13:38 ◼   ► So I hope that all works out, you know,

01:13:42 ◼   ► as I imagined in my opinion,

01:13:43 ◼   ► isn't just like a sort of write once, edit never interface.

01:13:47 ◼   ► But yeah, I bet Pencil users love this,

01:13:50 ◼   ► because there's nothing worse

01:13:51 ◼   ► than having that software keyboard come up

01:13:52 ◼   ► and pecking away at it with your Pencil tip.

01:13:54 ◼   ► If you can just write into a text field, that'll be awesome.

01:13:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is a great feature.

01:14:00 ◼   ► I don't think I will personally use it,

01:14:01 ◼   ► 'cause I'm not much of a hand writer,

01:14:03 ◼   ► but it's just really cool for even people like me,

01:14:05 ◼   ► for like the twice a year that we might want to use it.

01:14:08 ◼   ► And then for people who do kind of, you know,

01:14:09 ◼   ► hand write natively and prefer that as an input mechanism,

01:14:13 ◼   ► this is great for them, because you know,

01:14:15 ◼   ► you can just hand write everywhere,

01:14:16 ◼   ► and it just kind of works.

01:14:17 ◼   ► I too, when you were describing

01:14:19 ◼   ► the handwriting improvements and stuff,

01:14:22 ◼   ► I was also hoping for a little bit more dynamic movement

01:14:26 ◼   ► of what you wrote after you wrote it

01:14:27 ◼   ► in like the big handwriting views.

01:14:29 ◼   ► Maybe that's somewhere they can go in the future,

01:14:31 ◼   ► but it does seem, it seemed kind of like

01:14:33 ◼   ► their main innovation here was in recognition

01:14:36 ◼   ► and in the ability to select and like move it

01:14:40 ◼   ► as an image almost, but not to like reflow the text

01:14:44 ◼   ► or make the shapes dynamic and stuff like that.

01:14:47 ◼   ► So maybe we'll get that down the road.

01:14:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm really excited to try this out.

01:14:51 ◼   ► It looks, I agree with you Marco,

01:14:52 ◼   ► I don't see myself using it often,

01:14:53 ◼   ► but I do think it's a really cool feature,

01:14:54 ◼   ► especially for RSI, it might be nice too

01:14:57 ◼   ► that you're not sitting there typing,

01:14:59 ◼   ► you can be writing, which is super cool.

01:15:01 ◼   ► I felt briefly bad for a friend of the show,

01:15:04 ◼   ► Steve Trouton Smith, because his new app,

01:15:06 ◼   ► is it Pastel, is that right?

01:15:08 ◼   ► - Yep. - Is that right?

01:15:09 ◼   ► I think that's right.

01:15:10 ◼   ► Pastel has been Sherlocked, although he seemed

01:15:11 ◼   ► actually fairly excited about it, which was good,

01:15:13 ◼   ► because if he's not sad, then I'm not sad,

01:15:15 ◼   ► because there's a new system-wide color picker on iPad

01:15:19 ◼   ► and maybe iPhone, I'm not sure, but it's certainly on iPad,

01:15:23 ◼   ► and that's basically what Pastel does,

01:15:25 ◼   ► is try to be a system-wide, as much as he can,

01:15:27 ◼   ► a system-wide color picker.

01:15:28 ◼   ► - It's not just a new one, this never existed before,

01:15:30 ◼   ► as far as I'm aware, so this is a color picker on iOS.

01:15:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, true, yeah, yeah.

01:15:34 ◼   ► - Which is convenient to have for sharing colors

01:15:36 ◼   ► between apps, which is exactly what his app does,

01:15:37 ◼   ► so he was basically Sherlocked, but that happens.

01:15:41 ◼   ► If you're gonna make any kind of app

01:15:42 ◼   ► that extends the system in any way,

01:15:43 ◼   ► chances are good that Apple added sooner rather than later.

01:15:46 ◼   ► He ran into Sooner.