00:00:00 ◼ ► So we are recording at an unusual time for the second consecutive week. What's going on here?
00:00:05 ◼ ► It's my fault because I got COVID. That is super unfortunate. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to make a
00:00:13 ◼ ► big hairy deal out of it because fortunately I've been lucky enough that I'm recovering well and no
00:00:20 ◼ ► one else in my family got like actual noticeable symptoms really. So that's what's going on, but
00:00:28 ◼ ► I'm almost done with it and I basically just, you know, normally I didn't know whether to even
00:00:35 ◼ ► mention this publicly or not. It's kind of embarrassing. Certainly to be a liberal person
00:00:42 ◼ ► who thinks they're responsible and to get COVID, there's some degree of shame in it and embarrassment
00:00:48 ◼ ► in it, but I decided to tell everyone anyway just in this very quick thing before we get started on
00:00:56 ◼ ► all the tech BS that we normally talk about because I thought it was a lot safer than it was to be in
00:01:04 ◼ ► the place that I was, you know, occasionally go into a restaurant and stuff. We live in a small
00:01:10 ◼ ► town where there were previously zero known cases total and so I was going into everyday life with
00:01:19 ◼ ► a risk profile as if it was very safe and fortunately it seems like almost no one in the
00:01:27 ◼ ► town got it as I had to make all those phone calls to everybody, which is not a fun thing to do,
00:01:34 ◼ ► saying "Hey, I got COVID and I saw you sometime last week so you might want to get tested."
00:01:39 ◼ ► I was under the continued assumption in my mind that I was still at the same risk level as I was
00:01:45 ◼ ► in the summertime and the reason I'm saying this publicly on this show is that I want all of you
00:01:51 ◼ ► out there to not make the same mistake I did and assume that you're currently at the same risk level
00:01:56 ◼ ► that you were at in the summertime. I haven't been paying enough attention to what's been going on
00:02:00 ◼ ► recently. It is everywhere right now. Anything you were doing to keep yourself safe in April,
00:02:10 ◼ ► you should be doing now. Things should be way more shut down than they are based on number of cases,
00:02:17 ◼ ► exposure everywhere in huge parts of the at least the US. I haven't been paying attention to much of
00:02:21 ◼ ► the rest of the world yet. Be careful. Be more careful than you have been all summer because
00:02:27 ◼ ► what's out there right now is way riskier and in way higher numbers than you might have been
00:02:34 ◼ ► assuming these last few months. Please be careful. We're lucky. I'm almost done with it. It seems
00:02:42 ◼ ► like no one else got it from us, thank God. If any of these things went a little bit differently,
00:02:48 ◼ ► it could have been a lot worse. Please learn from my lack of accurate risk assessment and
00:03:07 ◼ ► considering that because again, we're lucky that our symptoms were mild and that we didn't seem to
00:03:14 ◼ ► infect anyone else along the way. That could have been very different. Please everyone,
00:03:20 ◼ ► please be careful out there. I just want to add that I don't think you have anything to be
00:03:25 ◼ ► ashamed of. I think that despite all the measures that we've all taken to try to do what we think
00:03:31 ◼ ► is right, I would guess that every single person probably in the entire United States, maybe even
00:03:38 ◼ ► in the world, has been in scenarios where the only reason they didn't get infected is because nobody
00:03:43 ◼ ► around them was infected. It is very difficult to never put yourself in a situation where you might
00:03:49 ◼ ► get infected. All of us are relying on luck to say, "Well, that one time when I hung out in two
00:03:56 ◼ ► close quarters for too long while walking the dog with somebody, the only reason I didn't get it is
00:04:00 ◼ ► because my neighbor Jill didn't have COVID." Or, "The only reason I didn't give it to Jill at that
00:04:05 ◼ ► point is that I didn't have COVID." Nobody is 100% safe 100% of the time. We're all trying to do the
00:04:11 ◼ ► best we can. The fact that you got unlucky, unless you're doing something egregious like going to
00:04:16 ◼ ► bars every night, which you weren't, I think you shouldn't feel ashamed of anything. It's bad luck.
00:04:23 ◼ ► We're glad you pulled through. I think all of us, if you think, "Oh, well, that happened to Marco,
00:04:29 ◼ ► but he wasn't careful." Nobody is careful enough to be sure that they're not going to get it,
00:04:34 ◼ ► unless they're just living like a hermit and literally never leaving. Even then, who knows?
00:04:38 ◼ ► If you think you don't have to worry about it because you're not going to be a dummy like Marco,
00:04:43 ◼ ► Marco wasn't a dummy, and it can happen to you too. Well, I was a little bit of a dummy in the
00:04:47 ◼ ► sense that we had been going to indoor restaurants sometimes because we thought our town was safe.
00:04:53 ◼ ► The reality is, through all my contact tracing that I've been doing, I have found almost nobody
00:05:01 ◼ ► else who had it at all. I have my likely risk narrowed down to one interaction with one person
00:05:13 ◼ ► who had it that lasted about a minute. That, as far as I can tell, is the most likely place I got it.
00:05:22 ◼ ► It's that easy. That's all it could be. The thing is, a little light doesn't go on your ear that
00:05:28 ◼ ► tells you when you've been infected, so you're just guessing, and it's the best you can do.
00:05:31 ◼ ► Every time I go to the supermarket, I think, "Look, I've been going to the supermarket because
00:05:43 ◼ ► so we're doing all the best we can, and we hope the ventilation is good, and we're spaced out
00:05:50 ◼ ► if I was unlucky, and I paused too long to get the peanut butter, and the person next to me
00:05:55 ◼ ► breathed out real hard, and they had COVID, it's just luck of the draw. You don't get it instantly
00:05:59 ◼ ► from one little germ. The longer you spend, the more confined places. We know what the risk profile
00:06:04 ◼ ► is, but I don't think any of us have the kind of life where we can say, "I'm never going to go to
00:06:08 ◼ ► the grocery store anymore. I'm never going to go outdoors anymore." I'm certainly not living that
00:06:14 ◼ ► way. I'm doing the best I can within the constraints that I have. For example, my wife goes to the
00:06:20 ◼ ► office because she can't work from home at her job, and they've allowed people to go back in
00:06:24 ◼ ► the office in limited amounts or whatever. Every time she goes into the office, she's bringing home
00:06:27 ◼ ► everybody who was in that office with her in socially distant mask scenarios, so on and so
00:06:31 ◼ ► forth. So unfortunately, there's no way to have zero risk, which is why I feel like you were doing
00:06:36 ◼ ► more or less the best you can. Maybe you slacked off a little bit on going to the restaurants,
00:06:41 ◼ ► which was a thing you didn't necessarily need to do or whatever, but I don't think you should feel
00:06:44 ◼ ► shame about that because the shame is not a useful thing, right? It's certainly not a great feeling,
00:06:49 ◼ ► I'll tell you that. And that's the shame of having to admit to myself and others that I got this.
00:06:57 ◼ ► Knowing that I didn't have a 100% perfect safety record was something that I underestimated.
00:07:05 ◼ ► I underestimated how bad that would feel and how much of a fool I would feel like in restaurants.
00:07:19 ◼ ► it's very strange. And if you think the system will save you in some way, will work for you in
00:07:27 ◼ ► some way, will tell you when people have it, I can tell you at least in New York, that's not
00:07:32 ◼ ► happening. Guess how many contact tracers have gotten in touch from the county health departments?
00:07:37 ◼ ► Zero. Guess how much good the contact tracing app on my phone has done? Zero. In either direction.
00:07:44 ◼ ► I wasn't notified of any exposures and I have, as far as I can tell, no way to submit my exposure.
00:07:50 ◼ ► I'm lucky that I live in a small town and I know everybody. And so I've just been calling everybody
00:08:03 ◼ ► Because it's a small town. Everyone knows each other. Everyone knows me. I know everyone.
00:08:08 ◼ ► And so I was able to get in touch with probably almost everybody who I would have seen that week.
00:08:16 ◼ ► And the only reason I found any other case of it was that some of the people I contacted told me,
00:08:28 ◼ ► And that's it. And so the system is overwhelmed in so many ways and the system is not going to
00:08:36 ◼ ► save you here. So take matters into your own hands and be way more careful than you think you need to
00:08:43 ◼ ► be. And no place is safe. Even if you, like me, made the stupid decision that your small, isolated
00:08:50 ◼ ► town with almost nobody in it would be reasonably safe since you never heard of anybody there getting
00:09:04 ◼ ► All right, let's start with some follow-up. I don't know if, speaking of editing, this happened
00:09:09 ◼ ► to get cut in the edit or if it just wasn't in the spot people expected, but we had a lot of people
00:09:14 ◼ ► reaching out asking, "Hey, you never said what watch you were wearing, Casey, when it took--" or
00:09:20 ◼ ► excuse me, "what watch band you were wearing when it took a dive off of the roof of Aaron's car and
00:09:24 ◼ ► cracked itself on the pavement." I did say it. It is quite possible it either hit the cutting room
00:09:29 ◼ ► floor or I think we might have gotten in like 17 different tangents as we are wont to do.
00:09:33 ◼ ► And so maybe it wasn't exactly what you expected. In all fairness, I recorded and edited last week's
00:09:39 ◼ ► show with 101 degree fever. So it might not have been my best editing job ever. Right, exactly.
00:09:46 ◼ ► So if you wanted the answer to that question, you could have listened to the bootleg and you
00:09:50 ◼ ► can get access to that at ATP.fm. But to directly answer the question, I was wearing-- I always
00:09:57 ◼ ► forget the name of it-- it is the original OG sport band, not the solo loop or the sport loop
00:10:04 ◼ ► or whatever it is. Yeah, the sport band. The sport band. So the one with the clasp. I cannot
00:10:08 ◼ ► recall a time-- and I wear the sport band almost always when I have a watch on and I have a watch
00:10:14 ◼ ► on almost always-- I cannot recall a time that one has ever just fallen off of my wrist like that.
00:10:21 ◼ ► And I swear to you it did. If either one of you two knuckleheads told me this story, I would have
00:10:25 ◼ ► been like, "Pfft, yeah right." But I swear to you that's what happened. So yeah, it was the traditional
00:10:30 ◼ ► sport band. It's never happened to me before and I don't expect it would ever happen again. But it
00:10:35 ◼ ► was just colossally bad luck. So it is what it is. Million and one shot, doc. Exactly. I'm sure
00:10:42 ◼ ► that's a reference. I don't know what to. All right, YouTube DL. My beloved, my beloved, beloved
00:10:47 ◼ ► command line app. It's back, baby. It's back on GitHub. This is such great news. This is extremely
00:10:54 ◼ ► great news. So let me get the, let me get the kind of compulsory disclaimer out of the way.
00:10:58 ◼ ► I love GitHub, but GitHub has some troubling aspects to it. Most specifically they continue
00:11:04 ◼ ► to work with the United States. Really gross. What is the immigration and customs enforcement ICE? ICE.
00:11:09 ◼ ► Wait, they do? Yes. In what context? I don't, they, I think they do on-prem for ICE or something
00:11:17 ◼ ► like that. I'm not 100% sure, but my understanding, maybe I'm wrong. That's gross. But my understanding
00:11:23 ◼ ► is they've been doing this for years. They have been called out on it and they basically said
00:11:28 ◼ ► tough nuggies don't care. And that's super gross. And I just want to start out by saying that right
00:11:32 ◼ ► out, right out front. But leaving that aside, which I know is not easy for everyone, but for the
00:11:39 ◼ ► purposes of this conversation, we're going to leave that aside. I am super pleased and excited
00:11:45 ◼ ► about their response. So they put a blog post up a couple of days ago as we record, and it is called
00:11:50 ◼ ► standing up for developers colon YouTube DL is back. And in this, they talk about how it's, it's
00:11:58 ◼ ► a lot here and it is worth reading. It's not that long a post, but there's a lot there. But basically
00:12:02 ◼ ► there was a DMCA takedown request that was, and jump in when you're ready fellas, that was trying,
00:12:08 ◼ ► that was citing a specific clause that makes everything for GitHub a little more complicated.
00:12:14 ◼ ► And I don't know if it's really pertinent what that clause was, but suffice to say they had to
00:12:18 ◼ ► go through a lot more process than normal and working, I guess, with the EFF, the Electronic
00:12:22 ◼ ► Frontier Foundation, they came to figure out, oh, actually this is not really a reasonable request.
00:12:29 ◼ ► And so once the, there was a GitHub commit, which we'll put in the show notes that fixed the thing
00:12:35 ◼ ► that, that the RIAA was most upset about once that commit took out the code that, that the RIAA was
00:12:41 ◼ ► really the URLs that the RIAA was upset about, GitHub re-established or reinstated the official
00:12:48 ◼ ► YouTube DL repository as though it had never left, which is super, super excellent news. I'm really,
00:12:53 ◼ ► really excited about this. And beyond that, GitHub has said, we're going to change the way we handle
00:12:58 ◼ ► these sorts of things. We're going to give more advanced notice. We're going to give developers
00:13:02 ◼ ► a chance to react to the, to, to the take down requests and, and perhaps fix the actual problem.
00:13:09 ◼ ► And they've also said that they're creating, or if not creating, then they're funneling a million
00:13:15 ◼ ► dollars into a developer defense fund in order to help developers who can't really fight off
00:13:21 ◼ ► the entire recording artist industry of America recording. What is it? RIAA recording industry.
00:13:26 ◼ ► Yeah. Artists association. Association of America. Although I think maybe a different A word might be
00:13:36 ◼ ► GitHub is putting a million bucks of their own money or Microsoft's money or somebody's money to,
00:13:41 ◼ ► to start this developer defense fund. Again, I'm not saying GitHub is a perfect entity by any means.
00:13:56 ◼ ► Yeah. This, this shows a few big things. I mean, number one, can you imagine the crap storm that
00:14:05 ◼ ► must have fallen on GitHub as a result of taking it down to prompt this level of correction from
00:14:10 ◼ ► them? So number one lesson is if you make tools that a lot of nerds use and your product's main
00:14:18 ◼ ► business is appealing to nerds, you better make sure you defend those tools on your platform.
00:14:24 ◼ ► But also this, this is less about GitHub having like a change of heart and much more about the
00:14:31 ◼ ► EFF having made a really good counter exam or counterpoint or counter argument about it.
00:14:36 ◼ ► Really, you know, GitHub has gotten a lot of the credit for this, but the credit falls almost
00:14:40 ◼ ► entirely on the EFF. They basically like on behalf of YouTube DL filed with GitHub, this incredible
00:14:48 ◼ ► like, you know, counterpoint piece basically saying this is invalid with this legal precedent
00:14:55 ◼ ► for these legally sound arguments. And if you don't support the EFF yet, please set up a monthly
00:15:03 ◼ ► donation to the EFF. I don't care how much you give them, give them something every month though.
00:15:08 ◼ ► They are so important to our industry for so many reasons. They have, they have fought in court,
00:15:16 ◼ ► many major battles that have, that have benefited us. You're listening to this as a podcast.
00:15:23 ◼ ► They've helped us directly by fighting podcast related patent lawsuits and other BS people try
00:15:28 ◼ ► to throw at podcasting. Chances are our listeners out there, like if you had to pick like one
00:15:41 ◼ ► it's hard to find something better than the EFF to add to your list of who you give money to every
00:15:46 ◼ ► month. So please add them to your list. But that being so, and I also, you know, some charities
00:15:52 ◼ ► have like, you know, different kind of mixed, mixed bag records on things. You know, they,
00:15:58 ◼ ► maybe you can feel good about some of the stuff they do, but not all the stuff they do.
00:16:01 ◼ ► I can't think of a thing that EFF has been on the wrong side of like, I just can't, they, they are
00:16:08 ◼ ► so above board and they like, if you are a nerd, chances are they represent your beliefs
00:16:15 ◼ ► and priorities very well. So give to the EFF anyway. So yeah, what happened here basically was
00:16:22 ◼ ► the EFF stepped in and said, okay, the reason that the RAA picked that said that the DMCA applied
00:16:29 ◼ ► here doesn't actually apply. Here's a whole bunch of evidence to back that up. GitHub, you know,
00:16:35 ◼ ► undo this, please. And I assume that was part, one of many parts of the crap storm that GitHub
00:16:42 ◼ ► was receiving that made them really turn around on this. And so it's a, it's a great victory,
00:16:50 ◼ ► I think, for lots of things here. But, um, in particular, we have a great deal of thanks to
00:17:00 ◼ ► Well, I mean, everything came out well, like the, the, I think the most important role of things
00:17:05 ◼ ► like EFF, I also give money to them is because in our legal system, if you're just like the developer
00:17:10 ◼ ► of YouTube DL, it is disproportionately onerous for you to try to fight this. That's why you need
00:17:18 ◼ ► something like the EFF, who's staffed with, you know, they have money from people who give them
00:17:22 ◼ ► money. And they're staffed with people who do this type of fighting all the time. They have the
00:17:27 ◼ ► experience, they have the expertise, they have the money, they have the time, right? It's a
00:17:31 ◼ ► countervailing force against the RAA, which is like, all we do all day is find people and tell
00:17:37 ◼ ► them to stop what they're doing, because they're infringing on our rights or whatever. Sometimes
00:17:41 ◼ ► they are infringing on the rights. Sometimes they're not. But when they're not, it's so hard to,
00:17:46 ◼ ► to fight back in any way. It's just, it's just too much. Right. And I think some credit goes to
00:17:49 ◼ ► Microsoft slash GitHub for being open to the EFF's argument, because in the end, RAA, you know, EFF
00:17:57 ◼ ► can fight the battle, but Microsoft's on the line, or, you know, GitHub's on the line for hosting
00:18:01 ◼ ► the stuff, right? So they also have to have sort of the corporate will and, and or the, the savvy
00:18:08 ◼ ► to know that it's really, it's a really bad look if you're supposed to be like a haven for developers,
00:18:12 ◼ ► and then you just let them get screwed by the RAA, right? So it's some combination of pragmatism,
00:18:17 ◼ ► but also some amount of being willing to read the EFF argument and go with it, even though there are
00:18:24 ◼ ► plenty of gray areas, and you can say whatever you want, but until it's tested in a court,
00:18:28 ◼ ► who knows, right? So I give some credit all around. I'm glad this came out the right way.
00:18:33 ◼ ► It seems so ridiculous, though, like when we were talking about it, that like, I kept thinking there
00:18:37 ◼ ► was something I was missing about circumvention, but like, nope, I wasn't missing anything. It was
00:18:40 ◼ ► just, it was just literally like the dumbest possible thing you can imagine. You've got URLs
00:18:44 ◼ ► to copyrighted videos in your readme in your test suite or whatever. And, you know, that, that's
00:18:49 ◼ ► ridiculous. So I'm glad in the most extreme ridiculous case, we have enough people fighting
00:18:55 ◼ ► the good fight to turn this around. Yep. No, this is very good news. I'm very excited about it.
00:18:59 ◼ ► I think it was John last week had asked for somebody to find for us where it was that we
00:19:11 ◼ ► who's the winner? It's Margo. He nailed it. He got the exact name M1. When were we discussing this?
00:19:18 ◼ ► Part of the reason we couldn't remember it? 2018. October of 2018 was one of the many recurring
00:19:24 ◼ ► conversations we had about RMAX. And, you know, what do we think? It was an Ask ATP, actually,
00:19:30 ◼ ► you know, what do we think it will be called? I think Cameron's the one who sent in the question.
00:19:34 ◼ ► And my guess was they would just keep going with A's because hey, A for everything, A for Apple,
00:19:38 ◼ ► that works. That was not the case. Marco came in with the M's and he was so convincing that both
00:19:44 ◼ ► me and Casey were like, yeah, now that you say it, that seems like the obvious thing to do. Casey
00:19:48 ◼ ► also mentioned R as a possibility, but by the end, I think Marco had turned all of us around and said,
00:19:52 ◼ ► yeah, that's, and that was my recollection of it. It was like, didn't we say M was like the
00:19:57 ◼ ► most obvious one, but I couldn't remember who had come up with that. And it was Marco. He also
00:20:01 ◼ ► predicted letter suffixes. You know, M1C, M1S, M1, you know, I think at the time I said they
00:20:09 ◼ ► haven't used Z yet because they hadn't yet, but now they've used Z. So there you go. 2018,
00:20:16 ◼ ► M1 predicted by Marco. Well done, sir. All right. Tell me about RMAX and touch, please.
00:20:27 ◼ ► M1 Max, and we're going to talk about them later too. And one of them, this is, where was it? Was
00:20:33 ◼ ► it in the independent? Yeah. It was Craig Federighi and John Turnus. And here's a quote from
00:20:38 ◼ ► CFED. "I got to tell you, when we released Big Sur and these articles started coming out saying,
00:20:43 ◼ ► oh my God, look, Apple's preparing for touch. I was thinking, whoa, why? We had designed and
00:20:47 ◼ ► evolved the look for macOS in a way that we felt was comfortable and natural to us, not remotely
00:20:52 ◼ ► considering something about touch." So lots of people are citing that and saying, all those
00:20:57 ◼ ► stories you said about touch Max coming because Big Sur was like spacing things out. Here's CFED
00:21:02 ◼ ► saying, yeah, we did the spacing, but it wasn't because of touch. And that he was surprised when
00:21:08 ◼ ► people kept thinking we were preparing touch, that not remotely considering something about touch
00:21:13 ◼ ► is the money quote here. Now here's the thing. Lots of people have cited the idea that Apple
00:21:18 ◼ ► says one thing and the next year they do something different or whatever. I think this is different
00:21:28 ◼ ► this doesn't say anything about the future because Apple's never going to comment on future products.
00:21:32 ◼ ► So Federighi is not saying we're never going to make touch Max. We think they're a terrible idea.
00:21:37 ◼ ► What he is saying is when we did all that stuff to Big Sur, we weren't doing it because of touch.
00:21:42 ◼ ► Now we're probably not going to have time for this topic today, but in probably the next episode,
00:21:46 ◼ ► we'll talk about this. The obvious question that comes to my mind after reading that is like,
00:21:51 ◼ ► okay, if you weren't doing that for touch, then why the hell were you doing it? Because it doesn't
00:21:56 ◼ ► make any sense otherwise. Why am I gone so far apart in the menu bar? Why is everything so huge?
00:22:02 ◼ ► Anyway, we'll talk about Big Sur later, but I'm willing to take Federighi at his word that
00:22:07 ◼ ► the changes in Big Sur were not remotely considering something about touch. Like I find
00:22:13 ◼ ► it baffling because I can't think of any other reason to space things out like that, but that's
00:22:18 ◼ ► what he said and I see no reason for him to lie about that because like I said, he didn't say
00:22:22 ◼ ► there are no touch Max coming. He just say the Big Sur changes were not because of touch. Time will tell.
00:22:28 ◼ ► I can also point to like so many of the issues I have with Big Sur are things like hover states.
00:22:34 ◼ ► There's way more like things that are hidden by default and you have to hover somewhere to get
00:22:39 ◼ ► them to be revealed and different modes that expose themselves on hover and stuff. And that's
00:22:45 ◼ ► something that just doesn't work with touch. There is no hover with a touch screen. So if you were
00:22:51 ◼ ► designing something for touch, you would never in a million years use hover states for anything.
00:22:57 ◼ ► Whereas hover states feel like Alan Dye's favorite tool to use to hide anything to solve any design
00:23:02 ◼ ► problem. So they've gone way in the opposite direction actually with this. So really, you know,
00:23:08 ◼ ► this is not a UI design for touch. This is just a bad design. Yeah, more on that in a future episode.
00:23:15 ◼ ► Because I think we do have more to say about it in specific details. But yes, that's definitely true.
00:23:20 ◼ ► Jon, what's the next version of Mac OS? We discussed this on the show a while ago. And I
00:23:25 ◼ ► think I got another instance. I can't remember what the hell we said. But so here's the question.
00:23:28 ◼ ► It used to be Mac OS 10 with the big Roman numeral X, you know, 10 thing, right? And then eventually
00:23:34 ◼ ► they dropped that and it was just Mac OS and they in Big Sur, they changed the version number from
00:23:38 ◼ ► 10 to 11. Right? So it's Mac OS Big Sur was Mac OS 11.0. Right. And as we've discussed in past
00:23:45 ◼ ► episodes, the question is then, does Apple stick with Mac OS 11 for a while? Because they didn't
00:23:51 ◼ ► really brand it as 11. We know the version number is 11. Because we could find it although there was
00:23:55 ◼ ► that point where 10.16 was in the mix as well. And we've discussed that in past episodes as well.
00:23:59 ◼ ► But the question was, do they stick with 11 like they did with 10 and do 11.1 next year,
00:24:05 ◼ ► and then 11.2 the year after that and 11.3 the year after that? Or do they switch to an iOS
00:24:10 ◼ ► style numbering scheme where Mac OS 11.0 is this year, and then next year is 12.0 and the year
00:24:15 ◼ ► after that is 13.0 and so on and so forth? We think we have the answer to that question because Apple
00:24:20 ◼ ► just released Mac OS 11.1 beta, which means they're probably going to spend the next year doing 11.2,
00:24:32 ◼ ► - Problem solved. - Yeah, I'm glad they're doing it this way. I think it'll make things a lot
00:24:38 ◼ ► simpler to conceptualize and discuss and market, even though it is going to be a little bit weird
00:24:43 ◼ ► that they're going to be offset from iOS forever now. Like it's never going to match up.
00:24:58 ◼ ► - How did we get to, where did we end up? It was the buzz off from the reporter, is that right?
00:25:07 ◼ ► - Okay, so last week or maybe in the weeks prior, we talked about a viral clip where a reporter
00:25:20 ◼ ► video, viral video had captioned it as. But in reality, if you close your eyes and listen,
00:25:29 ◼ ► - I should have known this because I learned about this from my brother when he learned about it in
00:25:33 ◼ ► school and I just couldn't pull the name from my head. Now the McGurk effect, technically,
00:25:37 ◼ ► we'll put a link in the show notes to a YouTube video and the Wikipedia page explaining it.
00:25:41 ◼ ► Usually the demonstrations are you see a human being's mouth moving and the mouth makes like an
00:25:46 ◼ ► M or an F sound. And depending on what the mouth is doing, the audio sounds like an M or an F
00:25:51 ◼ ► because our brains are trained to look at the way people's mouths are moving to figure out
00:25:56 ◼ ► what it is that they're saying. It's not a thing that we consciously think about, but it happens.
00:26:00 ◼ ► But the more general case and the one I was talking about with the brainstorm green needle
00:26:05 ◼ ► thing is you don't need to see anybody's mouth moving. It is merely audio. And like in the
00:26:10 ◼ ► buzz off/F off clip, text is the nudge because the text in the F off video said F off. And because
00:26:18 ◼ ► we know how to read and could see that text, it made us hear an F instead of a B. And someone
00:26:24 ◼ ► sent a really, really good variant of this. And you two probably haven't looked at this,
00:26:28 ◼ ► but I invite you now to both look at this. It's a TikTok and it plays some audio and it has,
00:26:38 ◼ ► Eight different things that they're saying, okay, this audio, which one of these eight different
00:26:43 ◼ ► things do you hear? Listen to this audio in this TikTok and look at the first item and you will
00:26:48 ◼ ► hear the first item and look in the second item and you will hear the second and look in the third.
00:26:52 ◼ ► You will hear the third. If you think of the trick, look at them in random order, go in reverse
00:26:55 ◼ ► random, whichever one you were looking at. That's the audio you were here because our brains are
00:27:00 ◼ ► weird. Please try it now. Oh, this is not how I saw this going. This is like a techno thing. What
00:27:07 ◼ ► is going on? Just look at, listen to the audio. What is happening? Any one of those things to
00:27:15 ◼ ► it doesn't work without the visual aspects. Oh my God, my brain is broken. I don't like this at all.
00:27:19 ◼ ► It isn't an upsetting? This is deeply upsetting. This is the worst nightmare I've ever had in my
00:27:40 ◼ ► that even once you know the trick, you cannot see it the right way because our brain's just like,
00:27:44 ◼ ► no, that one is in shadow and that one's in light and they're clearly not the same color. It's like,
00:27:49 ◼ ► you can show yourself that they're the same color with, you know, like convince yourself
00:27:52 ◼ ► with a little cutout and a piece of paper. When you take it away, your brain's like, yeah, no,
00:27:55 ◼ ► you're never going to see them as the same color. And this is one of those things. We know how to
00:28:01 ◼ ► read and we've been doing it our whole life and you just look at one of those words and you will
00:28:04 ◼ ► hear it as clear as day. You'll hear it. That is deeply upsetting. Listeners, if we haven't
00:28:08 ◼ ► already, if Marco hasn't already piped it into the episode, don't click the link. Don't do it
00:28:12 ◼ ► because it's nightmare fuel. Oh my God. That's so terrifying. Oh wow. That's wild. That is very
00:28:19 ◼ ► cool, but extremely terrifying. And now that we've embedded TikTok in our show, it is time for TikTok
00:28:24 ◼ ► to die. Like that's now like the boring old people have come in and taken it over and now it's no
00:28:30 ◼ ► longer relevant to young people. Our government is bored with that. So don't worry about it.
00:28:42 ◼ ► especially is more affordable these days is because ISPs like Comcast or AT&T aren't just
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00:30:25 ◼ ► for sponsoring our show. All right, I have a weird discovery that I'd like to walk you guys through.
00:30:34 ◼ ► And this came from me doing my middle of the month, taking all of my photos off my phone.
00:30:40 ◼ ► T-ceremony. And so if you recall, the process by which I do this is I use photos, although as it
00:30:46 ◼ ► turns out, I could use image capture. I use photos to create a new photos library on my Mac. I have
00:30:51 ◼ ► it download or import all of the photos on my iPhone. I then export the unmodified originals.
00:30:56 ◼ ► Then I run my bespoke Swift command line app to send those to the Synology renamed and filed as
00:31:01 ◼ ► I see fit. And then I will typically use image capture to go into my phone and just bulk delete
00:31:08 ◼ ► the photos that I don't want, that I've just imported. Right, makes sense so far. So I went
00:31:14 ◼ ► to do this and I couldn't delete any of my photos in image capture. And for the first time, when I
00:31:22 ◼ ► don't recall ever having seen this before, next to Casey's iPhone, it had a little cloud icon.
00:31:28 ◼ ► The huh. Well, that's weird. I wonder what that's about. But I was on my laptop at the time,
00:31:34 ◼ ► which I just upgraded to Big Sur. So Big Sur. So I thought, okay, I'll just try again the next time
00:31:39 ◼ ► I'm at my iMac Pro. So the next day I sit down in my iMac Pro and I go to do the same thing. I go to
00:31:46 ◼ ► hook up my iPhone to image capture and I look and it's got a cloud icon. Huh. Well, what's that
00:31:53 ◼ ► about? Do you guys happen to know what that's about? Do you not have your phone set to download
00:31:57 ◼ ► all originals to your phone? Do you have it set off to my storage? Well, but that doesn't matter
00:32:01 ◼ ► because I don't use iCloud photo library. Do you use photo stream? Yeah. Do you have photo stream
00:32:06 ◼ ► on or off? I do, but it's always been on. That's always been the case. Huh. Is your phone still
00:32:12 ◼ ► downloading stuff from the iCloud backup and it's not done yet? No, I use the once called iTunes,
00:32:17 ◼ ► now called finder backup. I mean, it's a cloud icon. Clearly it's trying to talk to you. If only
00:32:21 ◼ ► the people who made this computer had some way to communicate with you other than tiny icons.
00:32:25 ◼ ► Tell me about it. So here's the thing. So I thought, huh, let me look into this. So I go into
00:32:30 ◼ ► where did I go? I got went to settings. I went to photos. Huh. There's a section called iCloud photos
00:32:37 ◼ ► and it's on. And I don't remember turning that on. So, hey everyone, I'm using iCloud photo
00:32:43 ◼ ► library now. I didn't even realize it. So I think what had happened was during launch day,
00:32:51 ◼ ► I forget specifically what it was, but I remember in the haste of like, you know, switching phones
00:32:56 ◼ ► and downloading everything and so on and so forth, I got told that, oh, my iCloud is running out of
00:33:02 ◼ ► storage. And I'm starting to use iCloud these days, not for iCloud photo library. Well, I am,
00:33:07 ◼ ► as it turns out, but I didn't know it. But I've been using iCloud for things like my gift wrapped
00:33:11 ◼ ► library, which is not that big, but no, I'm putting more and more stuff in notes. I'm putting stuff
00:33:15 ◼ ► like solver documents in iCloud. And so I'm using more iCloud than I, than I had been. And so in the
00:33:21 ◼ ► haste of just getting through this, you know, day of transfers and so on and so forth, I said, okay,
00:33:27 ◼ ► fine, just give me the $1 plan, whatever, fine. And I guess maybe during that process, it decided
00:33:33 ◼ ► to opt me into iCloud photos. Maybe I tapped something and I didn't realize it. I'm not here
00:33:38 ◼ ► to say that Apple did anything nefarious, but it was just funny to me that apparently, unbeknownst
00:33:43 ◼ ► to me, I am now using iCloud photo library for all my images going forward. So the next step,
00:33:47 ◼ ► which I haven't done yet is to actually embrace it and, you know, set up a proper photos library
00:33:52 ◼ ► on my Mac and start sucking in all the stuff from the Synology and so on and so forth. But given the
00:33:56 ◼ ► amount of grief I've gotten about not using iCloud photo libraries, imagine, or photo library,
00:34:02 ◼ ► imagine my own surprise when I go to that settings screen and say, huh, I'm using iCloud photo
00:34:08 ◼ ► library. Who knew? I didn't. Your accidental activation actually has a nice side effect
00:34:12 ◼ ► because in within your current workflow, the thing where you take your photos off your phone
00:34:15 ◼ ► once a month during that month, the photos, if without iCloud photo library, just on your phone.
00:34:20 ◼ ► So if you drop your phone into a lake halfway through the month, you've lost 15 days worth
00:34:23 ◼ ► of pictures that are on your phone. But now those are in the cloud for you. So there you go.
00:34:28 ◼ ► I also love that you felt so strongly against iCloud photo library that all it took for you to
00:34:35 ◼ ► literally just change your mind about it and move to it was one setting having been changed.
00:34:39 ◼ ► I mean, he didn't do it intentionally. You could literally just like toggle it off with like two
00:34:44 ◼ ► clicks. That's not the real library, though. Like that's the thing. That's just the pictures
00:34:48 ◼ ► he takes on his phone, right? Yes. Yes, that's true. And baby steps. It's baby steps. It's like
00:35:00 ◼ ► Unless I accidentally turn it on and I'm unaware. Yeah, I guess now I'm all in. I don't consider this
00:35:04 ◼ ► honest to goodness buy in until I do what I described a moment ago, which is I take all of
00:35:09 ◼ ► the photos from the Synology, make a duplicate on my iMac. And yeah, and that's a, that's a big
00:35:13 ◼ ► thing that you should really think about and plan out. But in the meantime, what you've unintentionally
00:35:17 ◼ ► done is improved your current system by shoring up one of the weaknesses. That is true. That is true.
00:35:22 ◼ ► So I thought that that was quite funny. Please not give me any more grief about it. The point was to
00:35:26 ◼ ► have a good laugh with me and then everyone be quiet, please. Okay. Yeah, that'll work. I have
00:35:31 ◼ ► some other new things in my life. I ordered new Apple watches for Aaron and I, and I wanted mostly
00:35:38 ◼ ► since I know these watches are old now and nobody cares. I wanted mostly to talk about a couple of
00:35:43 ◼ ► things. First of all, have you guys ever done the courier service? That's I thought new in the last
00:35:49 ◼ ► like six to 12 months, but maybe it's older than I realized. Are you familiar with this at all? I sure
00:35:53 ◼ ► wish my area had it now. Yes, I bet you do. And they don't, they did. I have used it for an Apple TV once,
00:36:01 ◼ ► but I have, I can tell you right now that as of this past week, they do not offer the courier
00:36:07 ◼ ► service in my area for either phones or laptops. Well, I didn't try phone or laptop, but I did try
00:36:12 ◼ ► the, you know, now one or two month old Apple watch series six. And I was going to buy, you know,
00:36:18 ◼ ► Aaron one and me one. And I was looking at the shipping options and depending on what band you get
00:36:23 ◼ ► and what model you get, you know, the shipping was anywhere between very quick and not for a month.
00:36:29 ◼ ► And so what I did was I was looking at the other different options and I realized, wait a second,
00:36:36 ◼ ► it said, you know, same day delivery or something like that. And I was doing this in the morning time.
00:36:40 ◼ ► So I thought, huh, let me see what that is. And so sure enough, do you guys happen to know how
00:36:46 ◼ ► much this is? Because I do, but I was expecting it to be far more than it actually was. Do you know
00:36:51 ◼ ► how much this is Marco? I think when I did it for the Apple TV, it was something like eight bucks.
00:36:56 ◼ ► It was, it was absurdly cheap for what it was. It was nine dollars. So I spent darn near a thousand
00:37:04 ◼ ► dollars on Apple watches. You bet your ass I'm going to spend nine dollars to get that thing
00:37:09 ◼ ► couriered over to me. So yeah, so I ordered, I don't remember exactly what time it was, but it
00:37:15 ◼ ► was somewhere around eight or nine in the morning. And the nearest available delivery window was like
00:37:21 ◼ ► four in the evening or afternoon. And I think it was four to six. I think I have that right. And
00:37:26 ◼ ► sure enough at like four thirty-ish, the courier, I start getting, you know, like notifications in
00:37:32 ◼ ► the Apple Store app and I start getting like text messages from Apple saying, hey, you know, the
00:37:36 ◼ ► courier has been assigned, the courier is picking up your thing, the courier is on its way. Actually
00:37:41 ◼ ► in the Apple Store app, they had like a live map, you know, much like many of these delivery services
00:37:47 ◼ ► these days to show exactly where the courier was, which was super cool. Interestingly, a no touch
00:37:54 ◼ ► option did not seem to be allowed. They specifically said in several different places that somebody
00:37:58 ◼ ► needed to be there to pick up the order. So this very young gentleman came to the door. He
00:38:04 ◼ ► had his mask on. I had my mask on because I knew he was just down the road a minute before because I
00:38:08 ◼ ► was watching him cruise to my house like a stalker. And so anyway, he just handed me the bag. He didn't
00:38:14 ◼ ► ask for ID or anything like that. And then went on his way. And interestingly, there were a couple
00:38:19 ◼ ► interesting things about this. First of all, they gave me the standard like very, very wide Apple
00:38:22 ◼ ► Store bag, you know, not very deep, very, very wide because it's for these watch boxes that are
00:38:27 ◼ ► huge. But I guess because strictly speaking, it had been shipped, they had two of those huge gigantic
00:38:36 ◼ ► like "Lithium Ion Battery, be careful!" stickers on them, you know, and I'm talking about like UN
00:38:42 ◼ ► 234 notifications or whatever. Yeah, I forget. You know what I'm thinking of. I forget exactly what
00:38:45 ◼ ► it is. But yeah, those like big red and white ones. And then I looked at the sticker and sure enough,
00:38:56 ◼ ► I had no idea Postmates was in my area. I thought it was still only in like the New York and LA's
00:39:01 ◼ ► of the world. I didn't have a clue that it was all the way out in Podunk Richmond, Virginia.
00:39:06 ◼ ► But apparently Postmates was what delivered it and it was easy peasy. It went really, really well.
00:39:12 ◼ ► And I would definitely do that again for $9 if I'm spending the kind of money I was spending
00:39:17 ◼ ► today or a couple days ago. So it worked out really nicely. Very, very quickly about the watch.
00:39:29 ◼ ► pulse ox thing. It's nice to have that on my wrist. You know, that's good. It's very good for Marco.
00:39:34 ◼ ► It's good for me too. I got the, is it the Solo Loop, which is the sport band without a clasp?
00:39:39 ◼ ► Is that what it's called? Solo Loop? Did you get the size right on the first try? I did. Whoa!
00:39:43 ◼ ► Here's the thing. Here's the thing. First of all, I'm ordering, you know, literally two days ago.
00:39:50 ◼ ► And so because of that, I have had everyone's like refinements to their strategy that I've been made
00:39:58 ◼ ► privy to, you know, so like, don't get it super duper, don't get the little paper thing super duper
00:40:02 ◼ ► tight on the wrist. Just get it kind of tight on your wrist. And more than anything else, I'll have
00:40:05 ◼ ► to dig up this link for the show notes, but groobers, here's what you have in a sport band,
00:40:10 ◼ ► you know, the clasp sport band. Here's what you're probably going to want in the Solo Loop.
00:40:15 ◼ ► And that was spot on for both Aaron and me. And that worked out really nicely. So I am,
00:40:19 ◼ ► I believe, a six in the sport band, or excuse me, in the Solo Loop. And I think you and I,
00:40:24 ◼ ► Marco, were in the same hole in the sport band. So on the smaller, because I'm using a 40 millimeter
00:40:31 ◼ ► watch, on the smaller of the available sport bands, when I clasped it, it would be two empties
00:40:38 ◼ ► and then where the pin goes. I know this is hurting you to not use the right terminology.
00:40:41 ◼ ► I'm so sorry, Marco. Empties. It's like they're beer cans. Well, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.
00:40:47 ◼ ► And I think you and I were in the same size. No, I'm on the, I have one empty followed by the pin,
00:40:51 ◼ ► but I too am a size six in the Solo Loop. But honestly, I haven't been wearing my Solo Loop.
00:40:58 ◼ ► I don't know if it's just like the way the sizing works on me, but the sport band is just a little
00:41:07 ◼ ► bit more comfortable for me. And I find the Loop to be a little hotter because like the, you know,
00:41:12 ◼ ► the sport band, because it has the little excess tail that tucks under it. And because it has the,
00:41:16 ◼ ► you know, whatever nine holes in it. Or if you can even go even holier, if you'd like with those
00:41:21 ◼ ► Nike ones, there is some degree of ventilation that you get like, because you don't just have
00:41:27 ◼ ► a, you know, one inch wide strap of rubber on your entire wrist. You have like small gaps where just,
00:41:33 ◼ ► you know, where it pushes off from it because of the spacing of the tail or the holes, let some air
00:41:37 ◼ ► in or whatever. And so it just, it's slightly more ventilated with the regular sport band. Like the,
00:41:43 ◼ ► the solo loop almost fits too well. And so as a result, I find the solo loop less comfortable.
00:41:49 ◼ ► I also find just the way it works out with sizing for me right now that like sometimes during some
00:41:57 ◼ ► parts of the day, the solo loop size six is a little snug for my comfort, but the size seven
00:42:04 ◼ ► is way too big all the time. So I, I think I'm maybe possibly like a little bit between sizes on
00:42:10 ◼ ► the solo loop, whereas the sport band just works out better that way. And one of the great things
00:42:14 ◼ ► about the sport band is like, if you find yourself between two sizes, you always have the option of
00:42:20 ◼ ► subbing in. If you're one of the middle sizes, you have the option of subbing in like the long or the
00:42:24 ◼ ► short side. If both of them can kind of fit because then the different length of the excess tail will
00:42:30 ◼ ► actually give you a slightly different fit between each pair of holes. And so like sometimes you can
00:42:36 ◼ ► kind of fake a half size by swapping out to the different tail. You have no such option like this
00:42:41 ◼ ► with the solo loop, you know, whatever size it is, that's the size it always is period. So if it fits
00:42:46 ◼ ► you well, which it sounds like yours does then great. But I'm unfortunately not one of those
00:42:51 ◼ ► people. And so I'm very totally fine to be back on the regular sport band with the pin.
00:42:57 ◼ ► I feel like the biggest difference between the solo loop and the regular one is that the solo
00:43:03 ◼ ► loops necessarily are intentionally elastic. It has to get big enough for you to get your hand
00:43:09 ◼ ► through it, right? And so once you, you know, the material itself is pulling at you. If you have
00:43:14 ◼ ► solo loop size so that it doesn't press against you with its elasticity, it's too big, right? It
00:43:20 ◼ ► has to actually be against your skin in most places. But a solo loop that is against your skin,
00:43:26 ◼ ► unless you are extremely lucky, is actually, its elasticity is pressing it against your skin.
00:43:31 ◼ ► Whereas if you get a regular thing sized the right way, I feel like a regular thing that doesn't have
00:43:36 ◼ ► as much elasticity, if you get that sized right, it doesn't feel like the elasticity of the band
00:43:42 ◼ ► is causing it to squeeze your wrist, right? It's whatever hole you put it in and it's not going to
00:43:46 ◼ ► get, it's not trying to get any smaller than the hole you put it in. Whereas the solo loop is
00:43:50 ◼ ► always trying to get like a little bit smaller if it's snug on your wrists. So I can imagine as
00:43:55 ◼ ► someone who can't stand out of anything on the wrist, that even that just tiny bit of elasticity
00:44:03 ◼ ► Yeah, mine fits ever so slightly looser than I would prefer because I actually prefer it to be
00:44:09 ◼ ► a little bit tighter, but it's not to the point that it bothers me or that I notice it most of
00:44:13 ◼ ► the time. Getting the watch on and off is fine. I use the Studio Neat dock, one of the original
00:44:17 ◼ ► Studio Neat docks, so I don't have any issues with like laying it flat on the charger because
00:44:21 ◼ ► the charger is held upright. All in all, I really like the solo loop. It is a lot lighter than the
00:44:27 ◼ ► sport band, which in and of itself, I mean day to day, I don't really notice, but you can tell the
00:44:31 ◼ ► difference if you're paying any attention. But I really like the solo loop more than I expected.
00:44:35 ◼ ► And hypothetically, the next time I wash Aaron's car, my watch won't go catapulting off my wrist,
00:44:39 ◼ ► which would be an improvement. Very quickly, the brightness of the watch, I feel like I do notice,
00:44:44 ◼ ► particularly in the daylight. And otherwise, it's just, it's very nice and it's worked out
00:44:49 ◼ ► real nicely and I'm really glad to have blood oxygen readings taken all the time because I'm
00:44:53 ◼ ► super paranoid. So yeah, so hey, you know those watches that came out like two months ago? You
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00:46:56 ◼ ► All right, let's move on and talk about M1 Mac performance if we can, please. So since we've
00:47:06 ◼ ► last recorded, embargoes have dropped, geek benches have been, or geeks have been benched,
00:47:11 ◼ ► I guess I should say. And as it turns out, everyone is saying, "Holy smokes, these things are fast."
00:47:20 ◼ ► So break this down for me, one of you. Maybe we can start with Marco. Are these really that fast?
00:47:25 ◼ ► Is it possible for these to be that fast? It sure is and they sure are and it's amazing.
00:47:30 ◼ ► So, you know, I was kind of extrapolating in last week's show based on the A14 scores in Geekbench,
00:47:46 ◼ ► And I think I was roughly correct, but it's actually even better than I predicted. I think
00:47:51 ◼ ► I didn't predict quite how high the single core would be. But regardless, it's so much better
00:47:58 ◼ ► than most of us would have assumed that this could be in this power class, basically. You know, the
00:48:04 ◼ ► M1s that we have right now, we basically have the same computer in three different enclosures. Like,
00:48:11 ◼ ► it's not that different between the Mac Mini, the 13X MacBook Pro, and the MacBook Air that we have.
00:48:22 ◼ ► characteristics, basically. The peak performance of the MacBook Air is the same as the other two
00:48:30 ◼ ► performances, and then the MacBook Air just, it thermally throttles down. If you push it really
00:48:35 ◼ ► hard for more than a couple of minutes, it'll start getting a little bit slower. But even,
00:48:54 ◼ ► we had preliminary numbers last time. It's like, well, someone submitted these numbers,
00:48:57 ◼ ► but who knows if it's real or whatever. And they looked like they were in the ballpark,
00:49:04 ◼ ► speaking of Geekbench, single-core MacBook Air is almost 1,700, 1,687, and that varies,
00:49:11 ◼ ► so we just round up to 1,700, right? The previous champion single-core performance was 1,200 and
00:49:17 ◼ ► change for the iMac, the 5K iMac with the low core count or whatever. So, single-core, it's big,
00:49:24 ◼ ► right? Multi-core, as Marco predicted last time, the only things that can beat it are the things
00:49:31 ◼ ► that either have more cores or are much bigger and hotter CPUs with the same number of cores.
00:49:37 ◼ ► So, the only thing faster in multi-core is the iMac Pro, the Mac Pro, and the 5K iMac with eight
00:49:44 ◼ ► cores, right? Which means that the MacBook Air with no fan is basically faster in CPU than any
00:49:54 ◼ ► Mac laptop that Apple has ever sold, right? We were worried about maybe it won't keep up in
00:49:58 ◼ ► multi-core. Nope, it does. Don't worry about that. One of these articles from MacRumors did the thing
00:50:04 ◼ ► that we were talking about, was like, "Let's try an M1 Mac, but with everything emulated."
00:50:10 ◼ ► An Apple Silicon emulating x86 is still faster than every other Mac in single-core, right?
00:50:17 ◼ ► That's how big the lead is in single-core. When you add the overhead of emulation, nope,
00:50:22 ◼ ► it's still the fastest Mac ever. So, if you're worried like, "Oh, I'm going to get an M1 Mac,
00:50:26 ◼ ► but if I use mostly programs that haven't been ported, they'll be slow." No, they will still be
00:50:35 ◼ ► Name any Mac at any price. It's ridiculous, right? Matt Panzareno at TechCrunch did the
00:50:42 ◼ ► benchmark we were asking for, which is, "What about unzipping," although he should have spelled
00:50:46 ◼ ► zip with an X on XIP, "What about unzipping Xcode? Is it faster than that?" And we were wondering,
00:50:51 ◼ ► "Is that IO bound? Is it multi-threaded?" Blah, blah, blah. No, it's super fast at that. The M1
00:50:56 ◼ ► Macs are the fastest Macs you can buy if your goal is to unzip multi-gigabyte Xcode things.
00:51:01 ◼ ► They're taking it somewhere around five minutes, whereas a Mac Pro is taking 10 minutes.
00:51:05 ◼ ► It's really ridiculous. The disk speed, our predictions on that were more or less correct
00:51:14 ◼ ► as well. It's basically twice as fast as the old one, because as Marco said last week, the old one
00:51:19 ◼ ► was slow. The old one wasn't great SSD, right? But even just compared to the best SSDs available in
00:51:24 ◼ ► other Macs, the M1 Macs have really good IO performance. So if you're waiting for us to get
00:51:29 ◼ ► to the downsides of these machines, don't hold your breath, because they're exactly as impressive as
00:51:37 ◼ ► we thought they would be. And honestly, this is like third-degree backlash to the backlash
00:51:44 ◼ ► to the backlash. I still remain surprised that people who are not in the Apple industry are
00:51:49 ◼ ► surprised, because it's like they hadn't been paying attention. It's like they haven't been
00:51:53 ◼ ► listening to ACP for five years, right? Every time a phone would come out, we would look at the phone
00:51:58 ◼ ► and the beginning was like, "Let's make fun of Jon's 10-year-old computer by saying, 'Oh, I got
00:52:02 ◼ ► a new phone and my phone has a faster CPU than your 2008 Mac Pro,' right?" And then eventually it
00:52:08 ◼ ► was, "The new phones have faster single-core performance than any of our Macs." And then
00:52:13 ◼ ► eventually it was, "The new phones have faster single-core performance than any Mac you can buy
00:52:17 ◼ ► at any price." That all happened, right? So to think that they were going to introduce a Mac that
00:52:22 ◼ ► was somehow slower than that didn't make any sense. We always knew it was going to be like this. It's
00:52:27 ◼ ► just a question of how much and to what degree, right? And so it still doesn't take away from
00:52:32 ◼ ► the performance, but that's why I think you see some of the stories where people's initial
00:52:36 ◼ ► reaction, kind of like the initial iPhone reaction from BlackBerry, which I think Gruber said,
00:52:40 ◼ ► it was like, "This can't be real." Because if you're not paying attention to Apple and you just
00:52:44 ◼ ► tangentially catch wind of the story and they're like, "Apple releases a new Mac laptop with no
00:52:49 ◼ ► fan that is faster than any Mac laptop ever sold and it costs $999," like, whatever. That's
00:52:55 ◼ ► ridiculous. It must be some custom tailored benchmark thing. Nope. They really, really are
00:53:00 ◼ ► that fast. Some more fun stuff from Panzer's review. One of the tests was rendering five
00:53:06 ◼ ► minutes of 8K video at 60 frames per second. The M1 MacBook Pro used extremely little power to
00:53:11 ◼ ► this task. Just 70% of its battery was used to output an 81 gigabyte 8K render, right? So they
00:53:17 ◼ ► rendered this thing. This is not about like, we're not saying time because timing was good too,
00:53:22 ◼ ► but it's saying how much battery do you use to render out this 8K file? The MacBook Pro,
00:53:27 ◼ ► yes, this is the M1 MacBook Pro, not the MacBook Air, used 70% of its battery to do this.
00:53:32 ◼ ► The 13-inch MacBook Pro with an Intel processor could not even finish the task on one battery
00:53:38 ◼ ► charge. So it used more than 100% of its battery. It's like, this is where we talk about performance.
00:53:43 ◼ ► It's like, "Yeah, but does performance really matter? Battery life matter?" Not only is this
00:53:47 ◼ ► thing doing things faster, it's doing them with like hugely more battery life. There's Neil
00:53:53 ◼ ► Hyppetel saying that someone in his life, I'm assuming it's his wife, Becky, or maybe not,
00:53:58 ◼ ► says, "I purposely bought Becky a maxed out Core i7 MacBook Air a few months ago because she has
00:54:03 ◼ ► to run one Windows app for work. This i7 MacBook Air scored 2867 in Cinebench with the fans,
00:54:11 ◼ ► you know, out running at max the whole time. The new MacBook Air just silently scored 6,803."
00:54:17 ◼ ► So like, you know, I'm going to get you a maxed out i7 MacBook Air because you really need to do
00:54:25 ◼ ► this. And you're getting like two to three times the score in a computer with no fan. It's
00:54:30 ◼ ► ridiculous. Two more superlatives and I think it'll be done. I tried to pick out the most
00:54:34 ◼ ► ridiculous ones. This is from Anatec. We'll put this link in the show notes. And it's a great
00:54:37 ◼ ► article if you want to read about a deeper dive into what the CPU can do. They were doing Anatec
00:54:42 ◼ ► in typical fashion. They're doing all sorts of, you know, every benchmark you can possibly imagine.
00:54:46 ◼ ► They're somewhat limited by which benchmarks are natively compiled for ARM at this point,
00:54:51 ◼ ► but they were doing the best they can. So this is, Anatec is not just comparing them as other
00:54:58 ◼ ► Macs. They're saying like, "Industry-wide, what is this like?" So then they're doing the Mac Mini
00:55:04 ◼ ► in this case. The 2020 Mac Mini is at least 50% faster than the 2017 MacBook Pro with a Radeon Pro
00:55:09 ◼ ► 560 in the Basemark GPU benchmark. So that's a MacBook Pro with a discrete GPU. So they're
00:55:15 ◼ ► benching the Mac Mini against, you know, the biggest GPU. Not the biggest GPU, but one of the
00:55:21 ◼ ► discrete GPUs in a MacBook Pro. The newer MacBook Pros will do better, of course, but keep in mind
00:55:25 ◼ ► that this is an integrated GPU with the entire chip drawing less power than just the MacBook Pro's CPU,
00:55:31 ◼ ► never mind its discrete GPU. So it's not even fair to compare these because not only does this thing
00:55:36 ◼ ► draw less power than the MacBook Pro with the discrete GPU that it beat, what they're just
00:55:41 ◼ ► comparing is the power of the SoC to the power of just the CPU. They're not even adding in the power
00:55:48 ◼ ► used by the actual GPU that they're benchmarking in. So any sort of power comparison that you see
00:55:53 ◼ ► for these M1 Macs where they say, "Oh, the M1 was using this amount of watts, and then this computer
00:55:57 ◼ ► CPU is rated at this amount of watts." But the GPU, if it's a discrete GPU, is a whole other chip that
00:56:02 ◼ ► has its own power draw. It's fairly ridiculous. And finally, this is a spec, the spec benchmark,
00:56:08 ◼ ► SPEC, all caps, spec 2017. This is comparing against a CPU that actually beats it in some way,
00:56:15 ◼ ► right? In the overall new spec 2017 integer and floating point charts, Apple Silicon M1
00:56:20 ◼ ► falls behind AMD's Zen 3 in integer performance. However, it takes an undisputable lead in the
00:56:28 ◼ ► floating point suite. While AMD's Zen 3 still holds the lead in several workloads, we need to remind
00:56:33 ◼ ► ourselves that this comes at a great cost in power consumption in the 49-watt range, while Apple M1
00:56:39 ◼ ► is using 7 to 8 watts. So the only CPU that could beat it was using basically 50 watts,
00:56:47 ◼ ► right? You know, more than five times the power draw to barely edge it out in integer performance,
00:56:52 ◼ ► but still lose to it in floating point. The M1 is an absolute monster. Every single Mac that uses it
00:56:58 ◼ ► benefits from it in exactly the way that you would think, and the battery life is 100% real. So if
00:57:06 ◼ ► you had any reservations about these Macs for performance, noise, heat, temperature, battery
00:57:10 ◼ ► life concerns, I would say you can put them by the wayside. The compatibility issues and so on and so
00:57:14 ◼ ► forth still exist, but wow, these are good computers. Yeah. Well, but do we know that? Because
00:57:20 ◼ ► none of us have one, right? We both have them. Did Mark or do you have one? I've had it for about two
00:57:25 ◼ ► hours now. I've had it for a couple of days, so I can give you a little bit more impressions of it.
00:57:33 ◼ ► Remember, this is going to be the homework laptop, so I'm not actually going to be the one using this,
00:57:36 ◼ ► but of course I am the one that set it up. So I did have time to use it during the setup process,
00:57:42 ◼ ► which actually is fairly instrumental, because if you can think of what it's like when you set up
00:57:46 ◼ ► a new Mac laptop, there are a bunch of parts of that that are actually fairly stressful.
00:57:52 ◼ ► Migration Assistant itself, if you're using that, which I did, can be fairly stressful to the
00:57:57 ◼ ► computers involved, right? Depending on how you do it and, you know, like what, how they're connected
00:58:02 ◼ ► over the network and how much stuff you have and so on and so forth, but it's not uncommon to hear
00:58:05 ◼ ► the fans spin up when you run Migration Assistant on a laptop. Obviously, I didn't hear that on my
00:58:10 ◼ ► MacBook Air because it has no fans. When it was running Migration Assistant, I picked it up and
00:58:16 ◼ ► put my hand on the bottom to feel if it was warm. It was room temperature. There was no discernible
00:58:21 ◼ ► difference in temperature whatsoever from feeling the bottom of this thing during Migration Assistant.
00:58:30 ◼ ► this machine didn't ship with it, so it needed to run Software Update. When you run Software Update,
00:58:35 ◼ ► it's not uncommon to hear your Mac laptop's fans spin up, but this has no fans, so you didn't hear
00:58:40 ◼ ► that. When it was running Software Update and installing the operating system or update thing,
00:58:45 ◼ ► I felt it with my hand and it was room temperature. Like, you know, it's not to say these things can't
00:58:51 ◼ ► get warm. So there's plenty of YouTube videos you can watch. It's like, okay, now I'm going to run
00:58:54 ◼ ► this massive CPU/GPU benchmark for 20 minutes at a time. How hot does it get? It does get warm,
00:59:00 ◼ ► but A, not nearly as warm as an Intel laptop, and B, the thermal throttling penalty of this
00:59:07 ◼ ► MacBook Air seems to be about 15 to 20 percent in worst case scenario, as measured by work output.
00:59:13 ◼ ► So one of the ones I saw was doing like a Cinebench benchmark, and it did the same benchmark
00:59:16 ◼ ► over and over and over and over again to see how the performance dropped. So the first one
00:59:21 ◼ ► was about 15 percent higher than like the tenth run, right? And remember, that 15 percent, think
00:59:27 ◼ ► of that 15 percent you're losing for thermal throttling in light of how much faster this
00:59:31 ◼ ► MacBook Air is than all those other things we just listed before. It's almost nothing. And then the
00:59:35 ◼ ► MacBook Pro and the Mini don't throttle at all seemingly. Not only do the MacBook Pro and Mini
00:59:39 ◼ ► not throttle at all supposedly, but the fans apparently are so low RPM that you can't even
00:59:43 ◼ ► hear them. Gruber claimed to literally have never heard the fan, which is a claim that I can
00:59:47 ◼ ► understand as a fellow old person with Marco's Airport Extreme that he gave me that has a fan in
00:59:53 ◼ ► it ostensibly, but I literally cannot hear it. Like you can make everybody in the house be totally
00:59:58 ◼ ► quiet, and I can shove my ear like up to the thing. I can't hear the fan. So I'm willing to
01:00:03 ◼ ► believe that there is a fan, but that it can't be heard by 40-something-year-old people in a normal
01:00:10 ◼ ► house. So it's all pretty amazing. The thing that Craig Federighi was bragging about in the
01:00:18 ◼ ► keynote about Wake from Sleep, I tested that, and the thing about that is I have an Ork laptop I use
01:00:27 ◼ ► all the time. When I left the lid on my Ork laptop, the screen comes on instantly. So I'm like,
01:00:30 ◼ ► "Well, what do they mean by 'Wake from Sleep Instantly'? The problem with my Ork laptop is
01:00:35 ◼ ► all locked down, so I have to type in my password or use Touch ID or whatever to unlock it anyway."
01:00:41 ◼ ► You know, if you close the lid, it locks up, right? So I'm like, "When I lift my laptop lid,
01:00:45 ◼ ► the screen always comes on instantly, so how much faster can that be?" The thing that I had not
01:00:50 ◼ ► accounted for, and I mostly blamed on weird work stuff where I have to connect to the VPN, and I
01:00:55 ◼ ► don't know what I was blaming on, but I just assumed, "Oh, this is just always slow because
01:00:58 ◼ ► of work stuff." But whatever it is, on this new MacBook Air, the thing that is blowing me away is
01:01:04 ◼ ► how fast it unlocks with Touch ID. In my work laptop, I'm forever putting my finger on the
01:01:14 ◼ ► come on. See that my finger's there. See it. See my finger. See it. Unlock. See my... Oh,
01:01:19 ◼ ► there it goes. Okay." My finger spends so much time on that Touch ID sensor in my work laptop
01:01:23 ◼ ► because I'm waiting for the computer. The screen is on. I left the lid of the screen is on instantly,
01:01:27 ◼ ► and I see the little face and the little thing that says, "Type your password or use Touch ID,"
01:01:30 ◼ ► and I put my finger on the thing immediately, and then I got to wait for the computer to get around
01:01:35 ◼ ► to deciding to scan my finger. This MacBook Air, it's like if you brush your finger against the
01:01:39 ◼ ► thing it unlocks. It is always ready to read your finger. It's like a phone. You know when we had
01:01:44 ◼ ► phones with Touch ID? You'd take out your phone and put your finger on the Touch ID thing, and
01:01:47 ◼ ► it would unlock instantly. You wouldn't wait around with your thumb on the Touch ID sensor going,
01:01:51 ◼ ► "Come on, phone. Come on. Come on. Read my finger. Oh, there it unlocked." This is like that,
01:02:14 ◼ ► I got to try that. I set it up for them just to finish my story. I did the migration assistant,
01:02:19 ◼ ► put all the stuff on it. Everything worked flawlessly. All the software, I launched the
01:02:30 ◼ ► Compatibility has been 100% perfect. Even before I started downloading the ARM-optimized versions
01:02:36 ◼ ► of various apps, I'm sure there are caveats for depending on what app you use. Maybe it doesn't
01:02:41 ◼ ► work that way. If you're doing development work with a bunch of Unity stuff and none of that is
01:02:45 ◼ ► ported, those are all absolute valid concerns. But for my specific use case, which is have a
01:02:50 ◼ ► laptop that kids can use to do schoolwork on, you would never know this wasn't Intel. It is so fast.
01:02:57 ◼ ► Everything runs fine. My kids were looking at it like, "Why did you get another one of the
01:03:02 ◼ ► same laptop?" I'm like, "It's not." It couldn't be any different. I don't think they've noticed
01:03:07 ◼ ► that the fan isn't there. But if your kids are on Zoom all day, the fans kick on. It's just
01:03:14 ◼ ► annoying to have the fans going and just have that not be an issue and not have it get hot.
01:03:20 ◼ ► All they're doing all day is they're using web browsers. They're in Zoom. They're maybe launching
01:03:26 ◼ ► Google Docs or Microsoft Word. That's all they do. This is super light work. I should never hear
01:03:31 ◼ ► the fan on that Intel one, and I do. And this one, no fan, very fast. I love it. Thumbs up
01:03:48 ◼ ► Yeah, I'm telling you. It isn't something you do very often, but you know what it looks like from
01:03:53 ◼ ► all the other Macs. It fades to black for a second. All the windows reload and pop into a different
01:04:03 ◼ ► It's so weird because it's not as if iOS devices have a specially optimized path for resolution
01:04:17 ◼ ► Yeah, I don't know. All bets are off in terms of what the expected behavior of a Mac is, because
01:04:24 ◼ ► as I tried to express to my kids, even though it looks the same on the outside and it's got
01:04:28 ◼ ► the same keyboard and a very similar screen, what's inside is entirely changed. It's not
01:04:33 ◼ ► just that it took one chip out or replaced it with a different one. Everything is different.
01:04:36 ◼ ► All those chips that control the I/O and the RAM chip, you can just compare the motherboards.
01:04:46 ◼ ► Wi-Fi or whatever, but who knows? It's just an entirely different machine. It's very much
01:04:52 ◼ ► like an iPad shoved into a Mac's case, but that's a good thing. The sort of performance
01:04:58 ◼ ► characteristics or what's slow and what's fast or what it can do with what amount of effort,
01:05:16 ◼ ► like everything about computing and so many things in life is trade-offs and you got to get this
01:05:26 ◼ ► but the catch is it runs super hot or we raised the price or whatever. There's so many catches
01:05:32 ◼ ► every time we make any kind of progress and this just doesn't seem to have any. I guess the catch
01:05:39 ◼ ► is you can't virtualize Windows right now, which for many people is a really big deal and for many
01:05:43 ◼ ► people it doesn't matter at all. So as long as that is not a problem for you, there seems to be
01:05:50 ◼ ► pretty much no other catch. Well, I mean, there's the time-based catch, which is like the people who
01:05:56 ◼ ► have Unix stuff like oh, Docker's not ported. My Unix stuff isn't there. I can't use homebrew or
01:06:02 ◼ ► whatever. That is all true, but we also assume that's only temporarily true because that was
01:06:07 ◼ ► true when they went to Intel. It was true when, not for the Unix stuff, but when you went to Power
01:06:11 ◼ ► PC, those ports will happen. You have to wait for them. Oh, Photoshop's not out for ARM yet,
01:06:16 ◼ ► but there's a beta for it or whatever. Oh, homebrew says it's not going to have a version
01:06:20 ◼ ► out for a while. Oh, Docker doesn't, but we imagine in the next year, if you care about this,
01:06:29 ◼ ► GUI apps, but if you care about the Unix stuff, that will take a little while to come, but it's
01:06:34 ◼ ► not like you'll have to buy a new Mac then. The software will come eventually and you'll have it,
01:06:39 ◼ ► but if you spend all day using Docker and Node or something, don't get one of these Macs and then
01:06:44 ◼ ► be freaked out that you can't use Docker and Node, but if you buy one of these Macs now and use it
01:06:48 ◼ ► for web browsing and email, in a year, it'll do all that stuff and it'll do it super fast.
01:06:53 ◼ ► Yeah, and the only other major downside is that not the entire lineup has this as an option yet.
01:07:00 ◼ ► If you want a desktop with a built-in screen like an iMac or you want an expandable desktop like a
01:07:05 ◼ ► Mac Pro or you want a 15 inch laptop or 13 inch with all the ports and everything, they don't
01:07:12 ◼ ► satisfy those needs right now, but they will. Give it a year and I think we're going to have almost
01:07:18 ◼ ► all those major needs solved. I bet by this time in 2021, we're going to have the 16 inch, we're
01:07:24 ◼ ► going to have the iMac, we're going to have most of the range covered. Yes, there's going to be
01:07:30 ◼ ► machines with more than 16 gigs of RAM. They're going to get to that, but it seems like so far,
01:07:36 ◼ ► there's, and what Jon just said, that's a big thing. Having the software be a little bit shaky
01:07:42 ◼ ► for a while as everybody adds compatibility to everything is going to take a while. It always
01:07:47 ◼ ► does. This is the nature of a transition, but on day one, it's really good and it feels unreal.
01:07:59 ◼ ► The amount of speed you get out of these things, just to add one more little benchmark, I did some
01:08:29 ◼ ► it takes about 39 seconds. Why do you do this? And when it thermally throttles, the worst I could
01:08:35 ◼ ► get it to be was about 49. So in the worst case scenario throttling, it's only 12% faster than
01:08:44 ◼ ► my 10 core iMac Pro. And in the more common case, it's more like 30% faster. Now hold on right there
01:08:51 ◼ ► though. You paid, and you don't have to give me an exact figure, but somewhere around like six or
01:09:06 ◼ ► And here's the thing about the $1400 MacBook Pro. The $999 one probably wouldn't do that any slower.
01:09:13 ◼ ► Yeah. I mean, the only difference is half the RAM. Every other part of it is the same speed.
01:09:22 ◼ ► not that I recommend people get that. They should get 16 gigs of RAM if they can possibly afford it.
01:09:26 ◼ ► That's the amazing thing about this. That's the thing we learned from all the people testing.
01:09:32 ◼ ► We were wondering, "Oh, is it clock tires?" This and that. It seems like the answer is no.
01:09:39 ◼ ► and you can get readouts on what they are. And it seems like it's around 3.2 gigahertz throttling
01:09:48 ◼ ► And the penalty for cooling, as Marco noted, the penalty is you are only 12% faster than your
01:10:00 ◼ ► because I love not having a touch bar. And so that's currently a very nice thing right now.
01:10:07 ◼ ► So I took this out of the box about two hours ago. I ran migration assistant to transfer things onto
01:10:15 ◼ ► it. I installed a bunch of software. I ran these benchmarks. And I installed big software like
01:10:21 ◼ ► Xcode and Logic, like massive installations, many gigabytes of downloads and unzipping, and
01:10:26 ◼ ► yes, unzipping Xcode and all these massive operations. Running these benchmarks, I must
01:10:32 ◼ ► have run it nine or 10 times at least. I haven't plugged it in yet. I haven't unwrapped the power
01:10:37 ◼ ► brick yet. It's still in the box. And it's currently-- and I've had it sitting here with
01:10:41 ◼ ► the monitor on full brightness, because I only rock that way. And the battery is still at 60% full.
01:10:47 ◼ ► Do you remember during the setup, by the way, like Mac OS, if you've set up a Mac recently,
01:10:53 ◼ ► it throws up a notification that says, oh, since we're just setting up your Mac, things may be less
01:10:59 ◼ ► responsive until we finish this optimization process. What they're basically telling you is
01:11:02 ◼ ► like photo analysis is going to run and spotlight indexing is going to run. And they put a
01:11:06 ◼ ► notification in a couple of years ago or whatever that tells you that you may notice some degraded
01:11:11 ◼ ► performance. And it's like, no, I won't. Because normally you would think like, oh, I'll hear the
01:11:16 ◼ ► fans spinning up or things will feel slower or whatever. And that just never happened. So the
01:11:21 ◼ ► dialogue was there. The notification was there. But none of the effects that I could feel were
01:11:25 ◼ ► there from this supposed like, oh, I'm doing spotlight indexing now so things might be slower.
01:11:30 ◼ ► It was amazing. Yeah, I've also been totally ignoring when, like for instance, when you run
01:11:34 ◼ ► Migration Assistant, it suggests you plug it in. Yeah, right. And then also like when you install
01:11:39 ◼ ► Logic, it says you should really plug it into a power source before installing Logic. And I
01:11:44 ◼ ► guess ignore those and plow right through and then it's done 45 seconds later or something. And the
01:11:47 ◼ ► battery has lost less than 1% of its charge. Like it's not, it's fine. So to play this back,
01:12:01 ◼ ► extraordinarily fast. And even for the software that isn't updated for it, this is not the journey
01:12:07 ◼ ► from PowerPC to Intel from a decade plus ago. Even stuff that's still compiled for Intel is just as
01:12:14 ◼ ► fast as it was, if not faster. This is the no compromise computer, isn't it? Well, you know,
01:12:20 ◼ ► again, with the compatibility concerns, but yeah, like the future looks extremely bright. One of the
01:12:25 ◼ ► great quotes from one of, I think it might've been in that independent article with Federighi
01:12:30 ◼ ► and Turnus was, I think it was Federighi saying that, you know, the interviewer asked them about,
01:12:35 ◼ ► what do you think about these new computers or whatever? And the quote is, "We overshot."
01:12:39 ◼ ► It was like, we had a goal. We were trying to make something that's at least this good.
01:12:44 ◼ ► And it turns out we overshot. We made something like, it's not like this was their target and
01:12:50 ◼ ► they met it. They, you know, because this is way, they didn't need to make these this good.
01:12:55 ◼ ► There's no reason for the cheapest Mac that they sell to be faster than the most expensive laptop
01:13:00 ◼ ► they sell. Like that, why would you even make that as a goal unless you're being super ambitious,
01:13:04 ◼ ► Steve Jobs style or whatever. They just wanted something that was better than Intel and had a
01:13:08 ◼ ► bright future, but these things are phenomenal. Right. And it shows the most in these cheapos,
01:13:16 ◼ ► like the current MacBook Air is so much faster than the previous one. The new Mac Pro is going
01:13:21 ◼ ► to be way faster than the old Mac Pro, but the margins will narrow. I feel like potentially,
01:13:25 ◼ ► depending on how they fudge, you know, benchmarks with special like FPGAs or whatever, right.
01:13:30 ◼ ► Because it's, you know, it's more impressive when the sub $1,000 thing is like the fastest Mac ever
01:13:37 ◼ ► in single core than it is when the $6,000 one is because the $6,000 one is going to be the fastest
01:13:42 ◼ ► Mac ever by a large margin. But you expect that cause it's $6,000. We talked about this with the,
01:13:47 ◼ ► you know, what Macs do you think they're going to roll out first? And we always framed it as like,
01:13:51 ◼ ► well, if they roll out the low end, won't it be embarrassing for Apple if their cheapest Mac is
01:13:56 ◼ ► faster than their more expensive one? And here we are. And yeah, in some respects, it is quote,
01:14:02 ◼ ► unquote, embarrassing that the cheapest laptop they sell can do a whole bunch of things way
01:14:06 ◼ ► faster than the most expensive one. I, but I think I feel like Apple is willing to endure that
01:14:12 ◼ ► to say, but yeah, but we sell that computer too. Like that's us too. Like, you know, we,
01:14:16 ◼ ► we're not afraid of embarrassing our current products with our new products, especially
01:14:21 ◼ ► since we're going to replace those other ones soon anyway. And we're not worried about, oh,
01:14:25 ◼ ► well, no one's ever going to buy a 16 inch because if you need whatever, 64 gigs of Ram or a four
01:14:30 ◼ ► terabyte or an eight terabyte SSD or whatever, or you need to run some Intel program, you can't do
01:14:35 ◼ ► that on these because those are, these are the low end models. So you still have to buy that,
01:14:38 ◼ ► like kind of like how they still kept selling the, uh, the trashcan Macs. Some people needed them for
01:14:43 ◼ ► certain things they needed to do. And even though we felt like that computer is a dud, you're still
01:14:47 ◼ ► able to sell some of them. And obviously Apple wants to replace them ASAP, but whatever the
01:14:52 ◼ ► calculus was that was in their head, if they had rolled out the top end first and gone down,
01:14:56 ◼ ► it would have like saved this sort of weird situation we're in where, how does it make any
01:15:01 ◼ ► sense that your slowest computer is now your fastest computer? I don't understand. It doesn't
01:15:04 ◼ ► make it, but you know, we're all fine with it because like I'm telling everybody knows like,
01:15:12 ◼ ► send out the carrier pigeons fly, go buy Mac book airs. They are amazing. Your weight has paid off
01:15:19 ◼ ► by these computers now because the, the, the Mac book air, I feel like is like the best performance
01:15:26 ◼ ► deal of Macs that have ever existed. And we'll probably never be beat because we will never have
01:15:31 ◼ ► this discontinuity from, we were so slow for so long. And then we made this huge limp leap
01:15:35 ◼ ► and on the cheapest Mac that they sell that has a screen. I'm sorry, Mac. I keep excluding you. I
01:15:40 ◼ ► know you're cheaper. Yeah. I mean this and this to me, like this feels kind of like when we got SSDs
01:15:47 ◼ ► in, in the sense that like in, in my computing life so far, there are only a very small number of
01:15:59 ◼ ► like you actually really noticed the difference that does not happen very often. You know,
01:16:09 ◼ ► you know, 20% faster than, than the old one we had from a few years ago or whatever. Like
01:16:14 ◼ ► it's hard to in, in computing, it's hard to have major jumps like this. It doesn't happen very
01:16:21 ◼ ► often. Well, it's kind of like in the days with like two 86, two, if you had a two 86 and you got
01:16:26 ◼ ► a Pentium, you got that kind of jump, right? Like, cause in the early days we had bigger leaps,
01:16:30 ◼ ► but it's been a long time since you, since you go from like your, your three 86 to your Pentium and
01:16:36 ◼ ► have your hair blown back. And this is like that again. Exactly. And you know, the only time I can
01:16:41 ◼ ► think of in recent memory that we had a jump like this was when we went to SSDs, but going to SSDs
01:16:48 ◼ ► was a very like long and painful and expensive transition and many fronts. Yeah. And they were
01:16:57 ◼ ► expensive. Like you had an SSD, you had to get a tiny one and they cost a whole jillion dollars.
01:17:02 ◼ ► So yeah, it was amazing. But the reason it took so long is because they cost so much money. You're
01:17:06 ◼ ► like, well, but I've got a lot of data. I can't get an SSD. This is like if SSDs came out and they
01:17:10 ◼ ► were cheaper than spinning hard drives for the same number of bytes. Yeah. Cheaper and way faster.
01:17:15 ◼ ► Like that. Cause that's like my first SSD was 160 gigs. And so, you know, I had like, you know,
01:17:20 ◼ ► you had to like split it up. They'd have like, all right, we'll have the SSD for like the OS and maybe
01:17:24 ◼ ► like, you know, the, the cash folder for bridge or Photoshop or whatever. And then you'd put your
01:17:29 ◼ ► main data on your hard drive. So it's not to take up all the expensive SSD space. Um, and you know,
01:17:34 ◼ ► you had all these like hacks and everything and it was a long, painful transition before we, and
01:17:40 ◼ ► many people still haven't fully made the transition cause it's so expensive. Still it's,
01:17:43 ◼ ► SSDs are still way more expensive than hard drives. Even today, you know, this is on that
01:17:48 ◼ ► level of a transition in terms of how meaningful it is to the performance and balance of these
01:17:54 ◼ ► computers, except the downside is way less, way, way less. And the downside will be totally gone
01:18:02 ◼ ► within probably a year. Like, you know, the main downside is basically what John said earlier,
01:18:17 ◼ ► you know, regular Mac programs, if you're listening to this and you don't know what Unix is,
01:18:21 ◼ ► don't worry about it. Right. Cause regular Mac programs, you don't need them to do anything.
01:18:37 ◼ ► this is so exciting to me. I'm so happy with this. It has blown me away and I will, you know,
01:18:46 ◼ ► once the, once the big ones come out, I, I do still, I think want to be in the 16 inch size
01:18:50 ◼ ► class for my laptop needs. So once that comes out, I will probably go back to that size,
01:18:55 ◼ ► but I am super excited for this to progress and to keep going, you know, to see what the
01:19:02 ◼ ► rest of the lineup looks like. Super excited now to replace my iMac whenever the time comes,
01:19:06 ◼ ► which I was not excited about before, but now I, now I very much am. I am, I'm very much looking
01:19:12 ◼ ► forward to this time and, and it's, it's a great time to be a fan of computers right now.
01:19:19 ◼ ► he did an app launch thing, which is the thing that I used to do in Mac OS 10 versions to see,
01:19:24 ◼ ► because they would brag about improving app launch or whatever. So he's got a doc lined up at the
01:19:27 ◼ ► bottom of his computer with the ton of apps in it, like spreading the whole width of his screen.
01:19:31 ◼ ► And he just takes his cursor from right to left and goes, click, click, click, click, and clicks
01:19:34 ◼ ► each one of the apps. Right. And just goes from one end to the other and launches all the apps.
01:19:38 ◼ ► Right. And they bounce like once, like one bounce done, one bounce done. Like as he clicks
01:19:44 ◼ ► behind him, the apps are all finishing as his cursor moves along. It's, it's phenomenal. It's
01:19:49 ◼ ► like, why should, how, how are they launching that fast? Why? What is the, is it just the CPU?
01:19:54 ◼ ► Is, I mean, is the SSD a little faster? Maybe stuff got pulled into cache, but it's only got eight
01:19:58 ◼ ► gigs of RAM. Like it's inexplicably fast. Like it's phenomenally fast. Now some of that is the
01:20:03 ◼ ► new computer effect, right? And some of it is you've launched them before you get cached or
01:20:10 ◼ ► I've never seen performance like that, even on SSD max. Right. So what are Apple's doing? Keep doing
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01:22:26 ◼ ► All right, so let's properly introduce this. Just today, this morning, even as I woke up,
01:22:35 ◼ ► which usually these things seem to happen later in the day, Apple has announced that if you meet
01:22:41 ◼ ► certain qualifications and in certain circumstances and if this and if that, that you can, as an app
01:22:48 ◼ ► developer, get them to only take 15% cut off of your sales rather than 30%. And the short, short
01:22:56 ◼ ► version of this is it's for small businesses that earn up to a million dollars per year. But there
01:23:03 ◼ ► seemed to be a lot of, well, what abouts and oh, weights and so on. But at least at first and on
01:23:09 ◼ ► the surface, this is a very welcome change and one that I'm quite surprised to see Apple make.
01:23:23 ◼ ► there is no chance they're going to ever lower that commission from 70/30. No chance at all.
01:23:35 ◼ ► and so, you know, like the explanation, the obvious explanation is what's changed recently
01:23:41 ◼ ► that Apple would be doing this. The app stores are running for so long and they haven't ever
01:23:45 ◼ ► changed their cut. And in recent years, they did the 85/15. And then very recently, you know,
01:23:50 ◼ ► just today they did this thing. Hmm. Could it be the congressional attention they're getting? Could
01:23:56 ◼ ► it be the antitrust lawsuit against Google? Could it be, you know, companies like Epic having big
01:24:02 ◼ ► fights with them? Like, you know, sometimes, especially very fervent Apple fans don't like
01:24:08 ◼ ► the idea that there's any sort of countervailing force to Apple, whether it be government
01:24:12 ◼ ► intervention or companies like Epic making a big stink and throwing tantrums and filing lawsuits.
01:24:24 ◼ ► is not motivated to change anything. And now there's a little bit of motivation and we see
01:24:30 ◼ ► a change and I think it's great. Yeah. I mean, and, and this, there's a lot of details to this
01:24:34 ◼ ► that, that are worth knowing, but the, the gist of it that most developers are now going to have
01:24:41 ◼ ► 15% across the board is really quite something like that. And I think, and this is not the kind
01:24:48 ◼ ► of thing they would have decided, you know, over the weekend. I mean, this is the kind of thing,
01:24:51 ◼ ► this has probably been in the works for a few months if I had to guess. And this has a meaningful
01:24:57 ◼ ► impact on the stock perception for their services revenue. Now, that being said, and so all that is
01:25:05 ◼ ► to say, it's a big deal that like, it isn't just like Apple, you know, out of the goodness of their
01:25:09 ◼ ► heart, just giving us more money. They are also going to take a hit to a degree in this because
01:25:15 ◼ ► they make a lot of money from App Store revenue. But the way it's structured is that only developers
01:25:22 ◼ ► who make less than a million dollars a year get this new commission. If you make over a million
01:25:27 ◼ ► dollars a year through the App Store after their cut, then you're still paying 70 30 or, you know,
01:25:33 ◼ ► the 85 15 on the year two and above subscriptions, just like, just like before. And it turns out that
01:25:40 ◼ ► the App Store has very much a long tail effect for revenue. So if you look at the total amount
01:25:45 ◼ ► of money that Apple is going to keep at the end of the day, most of that money comes from a small
01:25:52 ◼ ► number of very, very big, very profitable companies and apps and games and stuff. So Apple, like, this
01:25:59 ◼ ► is not a huge amount of sweat off Apple's back, because most of the money they make from the App
01:26:04 ◼ ► Store are from the epics and Netflix is an HBO's of the world. It's from those massive companies.
01:26:11 ◼ ► And the commission on all those things is not going to change because those companies all make
01:26:15 ◼ ► way more than a million dollars a year from the App Store. What this does change is for that giant
01:26:20 ◼ ► long tail of developers like me who make less than a million dollars a year from the App Store,
01:26:25 ◼ ► we just got a raise basically. Again, this is something that like I never would have expected
01:26:32 ◼ ► Apple to do because quite frankly, they didn't need to. You know, there has been all this pressure
01:26:38 ◼ ► on them for, you know, antitrust regulation and everything and all the big companies that are
01:26:44 ◼ ► going to apply this pressure to them, they're not getting this cut because they make too much money.
01:26:50 ◼ ► So this won't help them at all. And I don't think this will relieve a lot of pressure from Apple
01:26:56 ◼ ► with the regulatory stuff, honestly. I think the only way to relieve that pressure is to allow
01:27:01 ◼ ► other forms of in-app purchase in apps. That's it. Like anything short of that is not going to
01:27:06 ◼ ► relieve that antitrust pressure. But that's something I think that would cost Apple way
01:27:11 ◼ ► more than this because all those big companies would do it and then Apple will lose all their
01:27:16 ◼ ► revenue. This is a very shrewd move for exactly the reasons you said that it makes a lot in terms
01:27:22 ◼ ► of number of people, it makes a lot of people happy because there are way more developers
01:27:26 ◼ ► making under a million dollars. And typically it's under a million dollars in profit, not revenue.
01:27:30 ◼ ► They're way more than making under a million than over, right? So number of people who are happier
01:27:35 ◼ ► today, huge number. It doesn't cost Apple that much money because they make most of the money off of
01:27:40 ◼ ► the whales, like the big profit makers. And those two things, like when we're talking about
01:27:47 ◼ ► antitrust and stuff, yes, there is the legal aspect of that, but there's also the political
01:27:52 ◼ ► and optics aspect of it. And despite Apple saying, "Oh, we charge 30%, that's what everyone else
01:27:57 ◼ ► charges," it's a good thing to be able to say the next time they're grilled to say, "Hey,
01:28:02 ◼ ► 90% of our developers just got their revenue share cut in half from 30 to 15 and look at all
01:28:11 ◼ ► these testimonials from developers who are happy," and so on and so forth. Those optics matter,
01:28:16 ◼ ► despite the fact that we all know what did Apple really give up? Did they give a ton of money? They
01:28:20 ◼ ► gave up some, they gave up a non-zero amount, but they didn't do like what Margo said, "Oh,
01:28:24 ◼ ► you can use a different payment method to really cut into it," right? And so it's good to be able
01:28:29 ◼ ► to have that in your quiver when someone starts leaning on you again. Now, all that said,
01:28:34 ◼ ► in the end, this type of dynamic where there's a company, in this case, a tech company that we
01:28:44 ◼ ► think may have too much power and is using that power to do things that are good for it at the
01:28:51 ◼ ► expense of other people, right? That's the whole government effort of like, "Let's look at these
01:28:54 ◼ ► companies that have lots of money and lots of power and let's make sure they're not making the
01:28:59 ◼ ► world worse for everyone who's not them," right? In some way, right? Antitrust is a specific instance
01:29:04 ◼ ► of that, but in general, the government is always looking at that in terms of regulation, right?
01:29:07 ◼ ► If that activity of looking into it and asking them hard questions and considering what we might
01:29:16 ◼ ► do about it causes that company to say, "What about this? What about if we do like this?"
01:29:22 ◼ ► And you look at it and go, "That pleases me a little." You haven't changed the power dynamic
01:29:30 ◼ ► because Apple was and remains in the exact same position as they were in that they're voluntarily
01:29:36 ◼ ► doing that. They're voluntarily doing that to try to avoid someone making them do something
01:29:40 ◼ ► presumably worse. They haven't given up any iota of their self-determination by doing this.
01:29:47 ◼ ► So if you're worried that this company has too much power, they still have all that power.
01:29:52 ◼ ► All they're doing is being a benevolent dictator of the App Store and say, "We bestow upon you
01:29:58 ◼ ► an additional 15%," right? But you haven't changed the fact that they are the only App Store,
01:30:04 ◼ ► they require the payment method, they make the rules, they can change the rules at any...
01:30:07 ◼ ► Like none of that has changed. So fundamentally, and this is what lots of people are screaming
01:30:11 ◼ ► about, fundamentally nothing has changed in the dynamic, but practically speaking, people are
01:30:17 ◼ ► happier and people get more money. This is exactly why you do this move. Do it voluntarily rather
01:30:22 ◼ ► than digging in your heels and refusing to change anything in the hopes of heading off something
01:30:26 ◼ ► that could be much worse, right? So I think this change is great despite the fact that it will not
01:30:30 ◼ ► help me at all because my apps don't make any money anymore. So I really wish they could have
01:30:34 ◼ ► done this back for the three days a year ago when my two dinky Mac apps made some money, but oh well,
01:30:45 ◼ ► but yeah, this is going to make a lot of people happy. It's a move in the right direction,
01:30:51 ◼ ► but has still not fundamentally changed the power dynamics, right? Now you could argue that the fact
01:30:55 ◼ ► that they did anything shows that there is some power on the other side of that, and that's true,
01:31:00 ◼ ► but relying on the benevolence of the powerful is a bad strategy long term, and that's the situation
01:31:05 ◼ ► we're still in right now. So I'm glad that we have some benevolence. I like it. It's good, but I don't
01:31:12 ◼ ► like relying on that benevolence as the only thing keeping the situation from getting much worse.
01:31:18 ◼ ► Oh, completely agreed, and that's what like this doesn't really solve many of the problems of
01:31:23 ◼ ► Apple's position with the App Store, but it is nice like to be on this side of it. It's just a nice
01:31:30 ◼ ► thing for them to have done, and I know it's not again. This is not charity. I know this was to
01:31:35 ◼ ► serve a political purpose, and it will serve that purpose very well. You know you think about the
01:31:39 ◼ ► different angles of this. You know they're now going to be able to say you know all the different
01:31:44 ◼ ► small businesses and individuals they've helped with this and how you know how much they contribute
01:31:49 ◼ ► to the economy with all these small businesses. So as future antitrust pressure and government
01:31:55 ◼ ► pressure and regulatory pressure, as more stuff falls on them in that area, they're going to be
01:32:00 ◼ ► able to point to this and say look at all the good we've done here for all these other small
01:32:04 ◼ ► businesses. At the same time, because they've made public these terms and they have this million
01:32:10 ◼ ► dollar threshold below which you get the benefit, they've also kind of helped alienate anybody who
01:32:17 ◼ ► tries to complain about it because if you complain about this what you're saying is I make more than
01:32:21 ◼ ► a million dollars from the App Store every year, and it's kind of a bad look in PR in certain
01:32:25 ◼ ► circles. So you know it's a very smart move what they've done here, and I'm just happy to be on
01:32:32 ◼ ► the good side of it, but certainly the PR here there is certainly some you know utility to this
01:32:39 ◼ ► for them that is not lost on them. And finally while I am slightly you know complaining about
01:32:45 ◼ ► things here, I love what they did here, but the way they implemented it is a little bit odd to me
01:32:54 ◼ ► and creates some weird incentives. So normally the way progressive taxation or progressive fees work,
01:33:01 ◼ ► and this is the way you know US income tax works this way, is normally like if you say that you
01:33:08 ◼ ► know the amount you make up to x is taxed at this percentage and then anything above that is taxed
01:33:14 ◼ ► at this percentage, those are structures in such a way that when you cross that threshold between
01:33:19 ◼ ► the two percentages you don't suddenly pay the higher tax rate on everything you made before,
01:33:26 ◼ ► you only pay the higher tax rate on the marginal difference between that threshold and your total
01:33:31 ◼ ► income. So there is no amount of money that you can like by making a dollar more in revenue
01:33:36 ◼ ► you take home less total. That that would be weird and we'd create perverse incentives.
01:33:42 ◼ ► What they're doing with this is kind of doing that in one way. So if you cross the threshold
01:33:49 ◼ ► for the rest of that year you pay the regular 70% or you know you get the regular 70% instead of 85.
01:33:56 ◼ ► So say you cross a million dollars in October then in November and December you're going to pay
01:34:03 ◼ ► 70/30 instead of 85/15. But you know you still have the money you made the rest of the year for
01:34:07 ◼ ► all the other monthly payouts that were taxed at the 85/15 rate. But the way this program works is
01:34:15 ◼ ► you only get the 85/15 on your first million if you made under a million dollars in the previous
01:34:22 ◼ ► year. So if you cross a million, yes it is progressively taxed for the rest of that year,
01:34:30 ◼ ► but then the entire next year you get 70/30 split even if you end up making less than a million for
01:34:37 ◼ ► that whole next year. So there is a weird incentive that like if you are going to make a little bit
01:34:47 ◼ ► above a million it's basically if you're gonna make between 1 million and 1.2 million or so
01:34:53 ◼ ► you actually have an incentive to maybe stop making money if you're gonna do that near the
01:34:58 ◼ ► very end of a year. Because if like in December you're gonna cross over a million you're actually
01:35:04 ◼ ► better off pulling your app from the store and just not making any money so that you stand at
01:35:10 ◼ ► that threshold so that for the entire next year you don't have the higher tax rate on your entire
01:35:23 ◼ ► you have to make under a million in the whole previous year to qualify thing because that
01:35:28 ◼ ► creates this weird perverse incentive. So I hope they iron this out. I mean it's that way because
01:35:34 ◼ ► it makes them more money because they want 70/30 for the whole next year because they think oh
01:35:38 ◼ ► you're turning into a whale. Like what they don't expect is for you to cross over a million in the
01:35:41 ◼ ► next year to make like nothing. So they say once you cross that threshold you're now in the category
01:35:46 ◼ ► of the 70/30 people and this set of rules makes Apple more money than the one you described.
01:35:51 ◼ ► - Exactly but if they would just tax the first million at 15% and then anything above that at
01:36:03 ◼ ► because they do that for the first year right that you were just describing. It's not like they don't
01:36:07 ◼ ► have the ability to do that because of some quirk of their accounting system. No they do that for
01:36:10 ◼ ► the year when you cross a million. - Right and I think Microsoft even does that. Like there's some
01:36:19 ◼ ► that like I don't know why they aren't doing it that way which would eliminate any weird perverse
01:36:26 ◼ ► incentives to not earn more money but I hope that they have some very good reason for that and that
01:36:33 ◼ ► they can fix that reason and get rid of that weird limitation. Otherwise this is a very good thing
01:36:38 ◼ ► and I'm very happy to see it. - Yeah the other thing that this made me think of related to our
01:36:43 ◼ ► past discussions about the app store on the cut and actual Apple's past actions and this has
01:36:49 ◼ ► analogies in general government and not just the government of app stores. In the past we
01:36:55 ◼ ► discussed the idea where you know Netflix got a secret sweetheart deal so they didn't have to pay
01:37:00 ◼ ► 30% because Netflix was huge and they did this deal with Apple that was kind of a you know open
01:37:05 ◼ ► secret that hey Apple you know Netflix is not paying 30% because they're a big company and big
01:37:10 ◼ ► companies get special deals with other big companies and many times I've described that as
01:37:14 ◼ ► that's the way business works like and it's true like if you look at any kind of business if you're
01:37:18 ◼ ► gonna buy one or two little widgets from a company you get a certain rate but if you're gonna buy
01:37:23 ◼ ► 10 million of them you get like your own special sales team and they schmooze you and you get a
01:37:27 ◼ ► better rate and you can negotiate right big companies have power that power manifests usually
01:37:33 ◼ ► in them getting better deals with other big companies and so every time you know Netflix
01:37:38 ◼ ► or whoever got a sweetheart deal for the app store it's like hey why don't I get that it was part of
01:37:42 ◼ ► the whole antitrust thing of Apple saying we treat everyone the same like we know that's not true
01:37:46 ◼ ► you treat big companies differently and I don't think that's outrageous or ridiculous because
01:37:54 ◼ ► depending on the power of that company whether it'd be a supplier for parts and how exclusive
01:37:58 ◼ ► that part is or whatever there are power dynamics between companies and it makes perfect sense
01:38:03 ◼ ► for big companies to get better deals right so one way Apple could have gone following the sort
01:38:08 ◼ ► of capitalist business ethic ethos is you know we're powerful companies we're butting heads here
01:38:13 ◼ ► or whatever if there's some big company like say epic or pick whatever whatever big company you
01:38:18 ◼ ► want Microsoft like whatever big company that is important to the app store Adobe you know
01:38:25 ◼ ► they could have said okay well we need to keep these big companies happy so let's strike a
01:38:32 ◼ ► deal with Microsoft to get office on to the Mac and we'll give Microsoft a smaller cut right
01:38:39 ◼ ► you know and that type of arrangement that I'm describing that Apple has done at various times
01:38:50 ◼ ► is the opposite of what they're doing here because this is like saying okay on the app store we take
01:38:56 ◼ ► a 30 cut but once you make more than a million we take a 15 cut and if you make more than a billion
01:39:01 ◼ ► we take a five percent cut that kind of progressive tax system where the more you make the less you
01:39:07 ◼ ► pay it's like the American income tax system in in reality right if not in law but sometimes also
01:39:13 ◼ ► in law right and that type of system makes a certain kind of sense that we're all used to
01:39:19 ◼ ► which is oh but they're Netflix of course they get a deal you're not Netflix you can't negotiate
01:39:23 ◼ ► a special deal with Apple to get a lower rate why should you get a lower rate and the argument from
01:39:32 ◼ ► the the 15 percent that I'm not getting and Netflix is getting is the difference between me
01:39:36 ◼ ► being able to be an independent developer and me having to get a different job whereas with Netflix
01:39:41 ◼ ► it's a it's a you know question of what their stock price is and their profitability and so on and so
01:39:45 ◼ ► forth right so that's the argument we always make is like that that percentage means more to the
01:39:49 ◼ ► smaller person which is why I think most people agree that a more reasonable and fair tax system
01:39:54 ◼ ► is if you're making barely enough money to survive you should have a lower tax rate than someone who's
01:39:59 ◼ ► making gazillions of dollars again with the progressive tax rate oh your first million is
01:40:03 ◼ ► taxed like this but your million and first dollar should be taxed higher and you can't cry poverty
01:40:08 ◼ ► and say oh but my million and first dollar was charged at five percent higher I can't live anymore
01:40:13 ◼ ► it doesn't that's you know so that's that argument like we don't cross these worlds of like oh real
01:40:19 ◼ ► life versus the app store or whatever but they do cross over and what apple has done here is
01:40:24 ◼ ► recognized that I mean previously had I don't get to make this political previously had a flat tax
01:40:28 ◼ ► ostensibly a flat tax 30 percent for everybody caveat asterisk double dagger so on and so forth
01:40:34 ◼ ► as we say right you know and one direction they could have gone is the big ones are big companies
01:40:41 ◼ ► are gonna bigger deals and we're gonna codify that like we're not going to just do a special deal with
01:40:46 ◼ ► netflix we're gonna say look once you make 300 million dollars you're down to five percent cut
01:40:51 ◼ ► because we want big companies to sell lots in our store that helps our revenue that helps our stock
01:40:55 ◼ ► price and for all the things that we talked about how this is actually like a very smart thing for
01:40:59 ◼ ► apple to do because it doesn't really hurt them part of the goodness of this arrangement is is
01:41:05 ◼ ► the opposite of that they are giving the cut to the people who need it the most and the people
01:41:10 ◼ ► who will hurt apple the least like that's right in there but still it doesn't change the fact that
01:41:14 ◼ ► they're giving the cut to the people who need it the most the most numerous people and the people
01:41:18 ◼ ► for whom it will have the largest impact right and you think like oh a million dollars if you're
01:41:22 ◼ ► making a million dollars you're rich if you have a five-person company a million dollars might not be
01:41:26 ◼ ► enough to keep your head above water so we can argue about what the right threshold is for a
01:41:30 ◼ ► company selling software right but certainly for individual developers if you're making a million
01:41:36 ◼ ► dollars in profit off the app store you're fine if you're a 20-person company making a million
01:41:40 ◼ ► dollars a year off the app store maybe you're not fine but the trend is in the right direction like
01:41:45 ◼ ► that line the slope of like we went from flat tax to a line tilted i'm glad the line didn't go in
01:41:50 ◼ ► the other direction which would be you know the big companies get the break and please feel free
01:41:55 ◼ ► to make whatever analogies to broader government you want i'm trying not to be super political here
01:41:59 ◼ ► but i feel like you can make your own conclusions i don't know i feel like this is this is a thing
01:42:08 ◼ ► that can cost apple not a lot of money but can reap incredible amounts of positive pr and
01:42:15 ◼ ► positive feelings so why not do it right you know it if all of the money is made on the whales which
01:42:21 ◼ ► i think you're right it absolutely is then yeah let's give the little guys a little boost and it's
01:42:28 ◼ ► really not going to cost that much it won't really change the bottom line and everyone's going to
01:42:32 ◼ ► think we're so benevolent and so wonderful and so great and hopefully some of the people who think
01:42:37 ◼ ► we're so great now are the people in government who are really looking up looking looking at our
01:42:42 ◼ ► finances and wondering you know and looking at in our behavior and wondering if we're being fair
01:42:46 ◼ ► well of course we're being fair this is what you guys said earlier of course we're being fair we
01:42:49 ◼ ► gave more money than little guys what else could you want from us and so yeah i think this is this
01:42:54 ◼ ► is something that should definitely be applauded without question but it is not a lot of effort
01:42:59 ◼ ► to earn a whole lot of good pr and if i'm in apple shoes i would have done the same thing but
01:43:10 ◼ ► be bigger changes yeah that uh other bigger changes would have been more useful but i'm
01:43:15 ◼ ► not going to kick a gift horse in the mouth this is still excellent and i applaud them for doing it
01:43:19 ◼ ► thanks to our sponsors this week squarespace linode and express vpn and thank you to our
01:43:24 ◼ ► members who support us directly you can do that at atp.fm join we will talk to you all next week
01:43:59 ◼ ► and if you're into twitter you can follow them at c a s e y l i s s so that's casey list m a r c
01:44:25 ◼ ► can you uh give me a moment to shed a little light on something that's uh on the verge of ruining my
01:44:41 ◼ ► marriage and i say that mostly jokingly but not entirely um i've been complaining and moaning a
01:44:46 ◼ ► lot lately about this weird issue that started for both aaron and i when we got our iphones 12
01:44:52 ◼ ► and that is that you know many of our friends and pretty much all of aaron's family are on android
01:45:00 ◼ ► and from what i can tell when we are shooting sms's back and forth between like one of us and
01:45:07 ◼ ► one other android person everything works great but in a lot of cases we're in these group messages
01:45:13 ◼ ► which i believe are strictly speaking delivered over mms and these group messages are you know
01:45:17 ◼ ► like two or three iphone people and two or three android people and both of us are having consistent
01:45:25 ◼ ► problems wherein one of us well we're not always in the same groups but oftentimes we are so like
01:45:31 ◼ ► family groups for example and i and let's say there were 10 messages sent iphones and android
01:45:37 ◼ ► phones my phone will receive five of them aaron's phone will receive seven of them and they are
01:45:43 ◼ ► they're of course not the same you know two batches of text messages i don't need to belabor
01:45:48 ◼ ► the point but aaron has been lighting me up about this justifiably because she's missing messages
01:45:53 ◼ ► from loved ones from friends she's been lighting me up about this for the three weeks whatever it
01:45:58 ◼ ► is we've had our phones i've been lighting up every apple engineer i know saying please fix
01:46:03 ◼ ► this for the love of god uh aaron is mostly jokingly threatening to buy an android phone
01:46:08 ◼ ► i think she's joking i'm not sure she's joking so i if you're a person who works at apple i will put
01:46:15 ◼ ► a feedback in the show notes can you please please do something about this because it's driving me
01:46:21 ◼ ► crazy and i joke about it ruining my marriage but seriously it is killing the two of us can you
01:46:27 ◼ ► please do something about this please and thank you that's what apple gets for not making uh
01:46:31 ◼ ► facetime and open protocol or message like like the the sms system as we all know is primitive
01:46:38 ◼ ► and old and weird or whatever but because there is it is the sort of open standard of messaging
01:46:45 ◼ ► if your phone doesn't work with it your phone is broken you're like oh i messaged i messaged
01:46:49 ◼ ► great yeah but but everyone doesn't have i messaged it's like why doesn't everyone have
01:46:52 ◼ ► my message well it's because it's just an apple thing well if you want everyone to have i messaged
01:46:55 ◼ ► you can't have it just be an apple thing uh and if you don't want everyone to have i messaged
01:46:58 ◼ ► you better make damn sure that the one thing everybody supposedly has no not whatsapp the
01:47:02 ◼ ► one thing everybody has that works and in this in our country that's sms the sort of lowest common
01:47:08 ◼ ► denominator um yeah so that's crappy when bugs like that happen and you can imagine why they
01:47:13 ◼ ► happen it's like well but who pays attention to sms like how many times our apple employees using
01:47:17 ◼ ► sms they're probably using i message way more and that's the problem and that's that's the thing
01:47:21 ◼ ► that really that really bugs me about this is i feel like this is widespread enough because
01:47:26 ◼ ► like i said i've complained about it on twitter and people have i thought it was an 18 t issue
01:47:30 ◼ ► at first and then people on like verizon and other american carriers said no no no no it's me too
01:47:34 ◼ ► and then i thought it was an american thing or something and then people in europe were like no
01:47:39 ◼ ► no no no it's me too then i thought it was an iphone 12 thing and some people on like iphone
01:47:43 ◼ ► 11 said no no no no me too um but i talked to a couple of apple people about it and they were like
01:47:49 ◼ ► wow i never send sms ever and i'm like oh my god i cannot hit my face you know the pot i can i got
01:47:55 ◼ ► facepalm harder when i hear things like that because it's like this is the biggest issue i
01:48:00 ◼ ► have with apple is is not dogfooding or not dogfooding everything like yeah they dogfood
01:48:08 ◼ ► i message but they don't dogfood sms or group mms or anything like that you know does anyone at
01:48:13 ◼ ► apple really and truly use their tube and their assistant because anyone who has really and truly
01:48:20 ◼ ► used their assistant knows it's a piece of garbage compared to other assistants or maybe that's the
01:48:25 ◼ ► other side of this coin is they dogfood too much and they don't see what the other side of the of
01:48:30 ◼ ► the fence looks like and they don't see how much better the amazon tube is than theirs and it's
01:48:35 ◼ ► very frustrating because it you know here's a phone that is possibly my favorite iphone ever
01:48:40 ◼ ► and i cannot reliably receive messages from friends and family and like it is an internet
01:48:45 ◼ ► communicator that was one of the three pillars wasn't it an internet communicator and it is not
01:48:49 ◼ ► communicating it's driving me crazy sms isn't the internet yeah fine fine fine fine i know and just
01:48:56 ◼ ► to get away just to get in front of everyone no i am not going to convince all of my friends and
01:49:00 ◼ ► family to get whatsapp i don't want whatsapp i don't use whatsapp i do not have the clout the
01:49:05 ◼ ► wherewithal the desire to convince everyone else i know to use whatsapp it's not that those are
01:49:10 ◼ ► boil the ocean strategies any strategy that involves getting everyone you're related to to do
01:49:14 ◼ ► anything related to technology is basically a no-go unless you're going to buy it all for them
01:49:18 ◼ ► and even then even then if you were going to buy them all iphones i bet some of them would reject
01:49:21 ◼ ► it oh i've offered iphones to like so as an example um aaron's youngest brother is on android his
01:49:28 ◼ ► fiance is on on an iphone and i have offered to literally give him my 11 which i just got repaired
01:49:34 ◼ ► i think i mentioned on the show i just got repaired brand new screen on it i've offered
01:49:37 ◼ ► to literally give it to him and he doesn't he's not interested he just doesn't want it so anyway
01:49:42 ◼ ► uh a couple weeks ago we made brief mention of this last episode but it might have hit the
01:49:46 ◼ ► cutting room floor a few weeks ago my name is t in the chat uh wrote something about what had ended
01:49:52 ◼ ► up happening last week but we didn't have time for it my name is t wrote uh after show request for i
01:49:57 ◼ ► can't do this this time we keep bringing this up when we're two hours into an episode and it's like
01:50:02 ◼ ► marco please summarize 10 years 10 years of podcasting oh my god in the next five minutes fine
01:50:07 ◼ ► let the record show i was interested to hear i have four fishermen's friend half cough drops left
01:50:11 ◼ ► i can't i can't do a huge segment right now what what you've got here casey is what i call one of
01:50:19 ◼ ► the topics that ends up getting pushed down in the list it's a big topic if we're going to talk about
01:50:23 ◼ ► 10 years of podcasting you know we're going to need time to do it it's also a little bit navel
01:50:27 ◼ ► gazey and usually there's more pressing news so these topics there's a lot of them that i have
01:50:31 ◼ ► like that that end up in the topic list and they just end up getting pushed down over time and by
01:50:34 ◼ ► leaving this in after show it's like every each time it's like this time we're going to be able
01:50:38 ◼ ► to do it even if marco was 100 healthy two hours in is not the time to talk about to summarize 10
01:50:44 ◼ ► years of podcasting so i my name is t it's a tall order for us to tackle your thing we have to really
01:50:50 ◼ ► wait for like the summer when there's no news but we have so much freaking apple news that we don't
01:50:54 ◼ ► probably have time to reminisce about being podcasters fine all right i tried i tried again
01:51:00 ◼ ► nobody loves me it's okay do you want to do titles then you don't want to talk about your cases
01:51:04 ◼ ► i i need to just tell the people about the cases because they keep asking me about it um all my
01:51:08 ◼ ► cases haven't arrived my iphone 12 cases i'm supposed to talk about iphone 12 cases that have
01:51:13 ◼ ► the bottom exposed and how much i like them and so on and so forth but my order is like i don't know
01:51:17 ◼ ► what's taking so long my one order said it's supposed to arrive in 15 business days which
01:51:21 ◼ ► i hadn't noticed before and we haven't reached resting business days so it's not overdue yet but
01:51:25 ◼ ► i don't have all my cases i have not found a case that i super duper like um i guess i can do a quick
01:51:31 ◼ ► you know brief review of the one i have i got the senna case s e n a it's a leather case it has an
01:51:37 ◼ ► exposed bottom it's got metal buttons uh the metal buttons are textured but i knew that going in
01:51:41 ◼ ► because you could see it in the photos uh pros the leather is super grippy and tacky i love it like
01:51:48 ◼ ► the apple ones are always slippery when you first get them and then they get broken in this one right
01:51:52 ◼ ► out of the case very grippy leather um and of course the bottom is exposed and it's good and
01:51:58 ◼ ► the corners uh look good on it they're not fraying or anything like that cons the buttons are way too
01:52:03 ◼ ► hard to press for me if you like firm button presses this is your phone because they are super
01:52:09 ◼ ► firm presses like if you're worried about these buttons getting accidentally pressed in your pocket
01:52:12 ◼ ► probably not going to happen with these ones but they are so hard to press that i almost immediately
01:52:16 ◼ ► took this case off and just threw it away one thing i noticed about the um about that case
01:52:21 ◼ ► in particular is like when i got it i noticed that when you look on the inside like when you
01:52:27 ◼ ► have no phone in it and you're looking at the inside of the case which is all you're doing
01:52:30 ◼ ► because you don't have a phone yes that's why i had a lot of time to do this the um like where
01:52:36 ◼ ► the buttons are the inside of the buttons is the same material and seemingly at the same thickness
01:52:42 ◼ ► as the rest of the case whereas if you look at an apple leather case where the buttons are there's
01:52:48 ◼ ► like a thinner like rubber kind of membrane material there instead of the whole full thickness
01:52:53 ◼ ► leather so i'm guessing that's something you need to look out for as like how to make the buttons
01:52:58 ◼ ► feel better and be easier to press or not yeah and so this is this is granted it's a personal
01:53:03 ◼ ► preference and if you like stiff buttons this is the one for you i wanted them to be separate like
01:53:06 ◼ ► stiff buttons yeah i don't know maybe if you have accidental presses a lot you don't have to worry
01:53:12 ◼ ► about this but like here's how stiff buttons manifest to be terrible like when i have my phone
01:53:16 ◼ ► sitting on like the sideboard when i'm in the kitchen doing dishes and i want to turn the
01:53:19 ◼ ► volume up and apple stupid air pods don't provide a way to do that i've got to walk into the i got
01:53:23 ◼ ► to walk into the the your watch does yeah my what i know i know i'm just saying i got to walk into
01:53:30 ◼ ► the other room and what i want to do is just reach down it's laying flat face up on on a little table
01:53:35 ◼ ► thing i just want to reach down to it and press the volume button seems like a simple task but
01:53:39 ◼ ► if it requires a ton of pressure now i have to get a firmer grip press hard but make sure you don't
01:53:45 ◼ ► have your opposing finger on the power button because you'll take a screenshot and it's actually
01:53:49 ◼ ► hard to do now not so hard that i can't struggle oh my little muscles i can't do it it's just
01:53:54 ◼ ► annoyingly stiff i want to be able to just do it thoughtlessly and now i have to like concentrate
01:53:58 ◼ ► a little bit uh the second thing is the texturing on the buttons is way rougher than i thought it
01:54:02 ◼ ► would be i thought it would be like kind of like a little bit rough or whatever like i wanted them
01:54:06 ◼ ► to be smooth i'm like oh they're a little texture that's fine but like you could file your nails
01:54:09 ◼ ► with this you could probably you know you could probably escape prison with one of these things
01:54:13 ◼ ► but just like rubbing it on the bars eventually you'll get through very rough texture and the
01:54:18 ◼ ► buttons stick out sort of proud of the case a lot more than the apple ones do the apple ones
01:54:22 ◼ ► are recessed a little bit so you know not entirely reassessed they do stick out a little bit but i
01:54:27 ◼ ► like the more recessed thing um and finally in terms of the leather quality even though the feel
01:54:32 ◼ ► of this is great and it's very tacky which is what i want the leather does seem to be i don't
01:54:37 ◼ ► know thinner or there's less of it or less durable because i've already got like some mars on the back
01:54:41 ◼ ► of it some scratches that i can see and the way the leather bunches around the curves like it's
01:54:47 ◼ ► not overall as nicely sort of gathered i put a link in the i put a photo in the show notes i
01:54:53 ◼ ► don't know if we'll put it in show art or whatever but it's like it's a picture of the apple leather
01:54:57 ◼ ► case showing the the volume buttons and the cut out for the the ring silent switch and the apple
01:55:03 ◼ ► ones every curve is just smooth there's no like wrinkling or bunching like in any of the curved
01:55:09 ◼ ► parts everything is rounded over the buttons are recessed in a little rounded over area this thing
01:55:14 ◼ ► that the the ring silent switch is like someone just took a razor cookie cutter and went slam
01:55:20 ◼ ► and just cut out a slice the edges are sharp and it's just like there is no sort of rounding over
01:55:25 ◼ ► of it at all it's just like they cut they slice right through the thing and so you can see all
01:55:29 ◼ ► the different layers of the case right so that aspect of it is both i feel like it feels a little
01:55:35 ◼ ► bit cheaper probably is less durable and also doesn't look as nice um that said it's still on
01:55:41 ◼ ► the case because you know why it's got an exposed bottom and i like that um i did consider going
01:55:47 ◼ ► back to the apple silicon case because having used the the swipe up on the exposed bottom for a while
01:55:52 ◼ ► i mean i used it without a case for a while so it shouldn't be new it's like isn't it the same
01:55:55 ◼ ► swiping up from the bottom without the case versus an exposed bottom it's the same edge the whole time
01:56:00 ◼ ► but i have to say that even without a case it is less satisfying than the old rounded over 11 to
01:56:05 ◼ ► swipe up from the bottom so i did have the thought that's like well you liked every other aspect of
01:56:10 ◼ ► the silicon case better except for the bottom swipe and it wasn't quite as tacky as this so
01:56:16 ◼ ► why not just switch back to the silicon one but instead i'm like well let me wait to for my next
01:56:20 ◼ ► leather case to come so i can try that one out but it hasn't arrived yet so if you're looking for me
01:56:24 ◼ ► to endorse a case that i personally like that has a bottom cut out as native leather i cannot endorse
01:56:30 ◼ ► the senate case but you might like it if you like rough metal buttons that stick out a lot and are
01:56:35 ◼ ► hard to press if you have one of those like hand grip exercise things like the like the the springs
01:56:41 ◼ ► between the two like grip you know lines that you put your your hand around you know if you like
01:56:46 ◼ ► those maybe you'll like using these buttons and maybe they'll soften up more over time they haven't
01:56:51 ◼ ► softened up so far i don't know um you know so i i think this is not a bad case it is just not to