00:00:00 ◼ ► It's a party here once again on a Wednesday night! Join us in our clubhouse! Have either one of you
00:00:06 ◼ ► done that? I just installed it tonight and I just I did one dog walk with it and just listening. I'm
00:00:12 ◼ ► not, I'm not gonna say anything for a while. Just listening and I have not yet seen why people like
00:00:21 ◼ ► it but that doesn't mean it's not there. It just, you know, I need more time with it. Before you
00:00:25 ◼ ► tell me anything about it I'm going to tell you what I think it is based on nothing other than
00:00:31 ◼ ► like third degree tweets about tweets about tweets about clubhouse. Okay. My impression,
00:00:38 ◼ ► like multi-degrees separated, is that it's a thing where people are either lurking like you or are
00:00:48 ◼ ► on audio speaking and it's like, it's like, imagine if you had a Skype call but instead
00:00:53 ◼ ► of there just being the three of us on the Skype call there were 50 of us on the Skype call and
00:00:59 ◼ ► probably there's some way to determine who is allowed to speak at various times and who is ever
00:01:03 ◼ ► going to be allowed to speak or whatever but in general like a bunch of people in a big audio chat
00:01:08 ◼ ► room and the draw is that sometimes famous people come in and say things in real time that are
00:01:12 ◼ ► really dumb that aren't recorded for posterity because people don't know how to record audio on
00:01:16 ◼ ► their devices yet and and it's exciting to hear famous people talk just kind of like the same way
00:01:21 ◼ ► it was exciting on twitter to see a famous person type something like that they wrote themselves
00:01:26 ◼ ► presumably it brought you closer to famous celebrities than going through their publicist
00:01:29 ◼ ► back in the day now you can hear them on audio presumably the next step is chat roulette where
00:01:34 ◼ ► we get to see random people on video and then just you know how that ends that's my impression how
00:01:38 ◼ ► close am I to what clubhouse actually is. Uh, I again based on one evening of listening to it
00:01:46 ◼ ► that seems about right but again I this I don't want to be one of those people who like
00:01:58 ◼ ► grossly wrong and everyone's using my clip and they're worth 10 billion dollars and everyone's
00:02:06 ◼ ► the I honestly I have absolutely zero interest in it the only reason that I asked a friend for an
00:02:12 ◼ ► invitation is because everyone's saying this is gonna like disrupt podcast and I figured well I'm
00:02:17 ◼ ► in the podcast business I should probably know about this I should probably have some knowledge
00:02:22 ◼ ► of this thing that has the risk of disrupting my business or at least changing what my business
00:02:26 ◼ ► needs to be and I think the risk of that is actually pretty low honestly like based on my
00:02:30 ◼ ► listening to it for again one afternoon it seems like it's a very different kind of thing and as a
00:02:37 ◼ ► podcast listener I mean we've all dear podcast listeners out there who listen to this show
00:02:44 ◼ ► you all like podcasts but we've seen over the years many businesses and apps and startups and
00:02:52 ◼ ► things like that that seem to be designed by people who hate podcasts to try to make it easier for them
00:03:00 ◼ ► to somehow get value at a podcast while hating them this seems like it might be in that ballpark
00:03:07 ◼ ► and so for people who actually really love podcasts I don't think this is gonna be for you
00:03:14 ◼ ► in the same way that it hasn't really caught on for me yet because the whole time I'm listening
00:03:19 ◼ ► to it I'm thinking of all the things about podcasts that I miss now this could again like
00:03:24 ◼ ► this take could age poorly when new things come out people often you know just complain that
00:03:31 ◼ ► they're not enough like the old things they're used to so I'm aware that this you know this could
00:03:35 ◼ ► be a bad take this could this could take off and be huge and I could be totally wrong and I could
00:03:41 ◼ ► be cringing listening ten years from now at this take I'm having right now but so far I when I
00:03:48 ◼ ► listen to clubhouse so I guess when I'm on there I don't know what the verb is when I'm listening
00:03:52 ◼ ► to a clubhouse club room I just miss podcast luxuries I miss things like pausing and speed
00:04:00 ◼ ► control and people who have some kind of production value and audio quality in their show and
00:04:05 ◼ ► people who perform editing for content I miss all the things that make podcasting really good and in
00:04:13 ◼ ► some ways like when when we moved from old media to new media in in many ways you know think about
00:04:19 ◼ ► you know when when like you know we moved from magazine articles to blog posts you know it's
00:04:25 ◼ ► like here's this this thing that this old need was being served this way in this new way you
00:04:29 ◼ ► aren't limited to like the bounds of a magazine or what one publisher selected or you know what
00:04:35 ◼ ► ten authors wrote you can read something from anybody and you can it can be any length that
00:04:40 ◼ ► needs to be and it can be published as often as it needs to be published and it can be you can
00:04:44 ◼ ► index it and search it and like all these luxuries you got via technology I feel like if if what
00:04:50 ◼ ► you're looking for is podcast like entertainment or information or conversation or amusement
00:04:55 ◼ ► clubhouse is like the opposite it's like going to step backwards it's like going back in time
00:04:59 ◼ ► to like am talk radio shows but by amateurs now people said a lot of this exact same stuff about
00:05:09 ◼ ► podcasts when they were new lots of like radio people said podcasts were were like you know
00:05:15 ◼ ► crappy productions of people who were boring and you know yammering on forever so like I get why
00:05:22 ◼ ► I should probably not be saying all this stuff but it's so far it's the best the best analogy
00:05:28 ◼ ► I can give is like I've never been one of the people and I think this makes me weird not them
00:05:34 ◼ ► but I've never been one of the one of the people who sits down and just turns on the TV and watches
00:05:38 ◼ ► quote what's on when I want to watch something I sit down I seek out a particular thing I want to
00:05:49 ◼ ► show and I watch that show I don't just turn on like a channel and see what's on I recognize that
00:05:55 ◼ ► makes me the weirdo because it seems like almost everyone else is the opposite but podcasting to
00:06:00 ◼ ► me is like the radio or audio version of selecting a specific thing you want to hear because you care
00:06:09 ◼ ► and you will seek out those things and you will listen to them and you will you know listen
00:06:14 ◼ ► straight through and you you know you don't want to miss a few minutes when you're like you know
00:06:17 ◼ ► pausing and you know having to talk to talk somebody in the street or getting out of your
00:06:21 ◼ ► car for a few minutes or whatever you know you want to pay attention to me Clubhouse is the just
00:06:29 ◼ ► sit back and watch whatever's on of audio and that's fine there's a huge market for that probably
00:06:36 ◼ ► but I'm not in it yeah the chat room is all talking about introverts and extroverts which
00:06:41 ◼ ► is exactly what I was thinking when you're describing it because a lot of the I feel like
00:06:46 ◼ ► a lot of the sort of foundational technologies of the internet if you squint at them kind of
00:06:54 ◼ ► look like things made to fit within stereotypical introverts lifestyle and worldview and the example
00:07:06 ◼ ► I was thinking of her Clubhouse is the opposite of that which is it's getting dangerous close to
00:07:10 ◼ ► being on a phone call so is it because a bunch of introverts made the internet I don't know I
00:07:14 ◼ ► mean that's probably not true but like it's true that sending an email is less pressure than being
00:07:19 ◼ ► on a real-time phone call you know it's true that asynchronous communication is less pressure than
00:07:25 ◼ ► synchronous communication in whatever form it's in right it's true that being in your house in
00:07:30 ◼ ► your pajamas is more comfortable than having to get dressed up and go to an office like all that
00:07:34 ◼ ► stuff like technology and lots of foundational internet communication mediums and protocols are
00:07:41 ◼ ► ideally suited to people who don't want to interact with people all that much and that probably means
00:07:48 ◼ ► that the portion of the population that doesn't like that is ill suit served by those technologies
00:07:55 ◼ ► and so as technology improves and we can better serve the the desires and needs of people who do
00:08:02 ◼ ► want to socialize I think that's probably a good thing for technology and in the podcast analogy a
00:08:08 ◼ ► podcast is like they don't know you're listening to them and you can listen to them at your leisure
00:08:11 ◼ ► how you want where you want with no pressure and feel like you have this relationship with
00:08:16 ◼ ► these people who are in your ears but never have to actually meet them or talk to them and you know
00:08:21 ◼ ► just like watching a TV show or a movie or reading books that is an ideal relationship with creations
00:08:26 ◼ ► and creators for a lot of people but for other people it isn't and they want to talk to people
00:08:30 ◼ ► and have an exchange and you know socialize essentially only over the computer and podcasts
00:08:37 ◼ ► don't fill that need an email doesn't fill that need and text messaging even doesn't fill that
00:08:41 ◼ ► need when it's you know minutes or hours between messages but real-time audio communication fills
00:08:46 ◼ ► a need it's like well don't we already have real-time audio communications not just a phone
00:08:49 ◼ ► call yes but what if it could be like a party line what do you remember those from the 80s
00:08:54 ◼ ► where they pick a party line telephone where you everyone would call up and then there we
00:08:57 ◼ ► bunch of people talking on the phone at the same time someone who has better knowledge of 80s party
00:09:01 ◼ ► line history can probably point to some cool web page going deep on what those were like and that
00:09:06 ◼ ► was more of a free-for-all I'm sure clubhouse is more refined than that but I think services
00:09:13 ◼ ► protocols or as they say in the term features if this is not a product that maybe it's a feature
00:09:17 ◼ ► that will quickly be you know stolen by all the big wigs so eventually Instagram will have
00:09:21 ◼ ► clubhouses and Facebook will have clubhouses and all that other stuff that serve needs other than
00:09:27 ◼ ► the needs of introverts to hide in their house in their pajamas and absorb entertainment in a
00:09:33 ◼ ► pressure-free way I think it's probably good for those things to exist all that said as an introvert
00:09:39 ◼ ► it's probably not for me like even though I sit here and talking to a microphone all week I'm not
00:09:44 ◼ ► really raring to go when it comes to the idea of essentially having a real-time phone call with
00:09:49 ◼ ► strangers just not into that but it doesn't mean this is not a useful and necessary and potentially
00:09:55 ◼ ► wildly popular idea and be going to be very successful whether it's through clubhouse or
00:10:00 ◼ ► you know someone else who takes this ball and runs with it so I've had a clubhouse account for a
00:10:05 ◼ ► couple of weeks but I have never remembered to listen in on any of the chats at a time when it
00:10:11 ◼ ► was convenient to do so and so I'll be sitting there and think to myself as I'm like trying to
00:10:15 ◼ ► watch a TV show oh I should listen to a clubhouse well I can't do that right now I'm in the middle
00:10:19 ◼ ► of watching a TV show or oh the kids are around don't want to do that and so I haven't even done
00:10:25 ◼ ► as much as Marco has even though I've had my account for a couple of weeks but my understanding
00:10:29 ◼ ► of it even though everything you guys said I think is accurate and I agree with including that my
00:10:34 ◼ ► take might be terrible one of the things that I think is worth noting is my limited understanding
00:10:39 ◼ ► is that you can have someone in the quote-unquote audience come up and join the chat so for example
00:10:46 ◼ ► if we were on clubhouse right now and we found that somebody had a particularly interesting
00:10:51 ◼ ► thing to say in the IRC chat room well this was clubhouse we could say to that person in the chat
00:10:57 ◼ ► room we could like bless them with the ability to talk on our show and I think that's a very
00:11:03 ◼ ► interesting and novel idea having never experienced it yet and I like the idea that you can have a
00:11:10 ◼ ► regular Joe Schmo and join in on a chat with a celebrity of any size you know a celebrity the
00:11:17 ◼ ► size of us which is to say not really a celebrity at all or an honest-to-goodness celebrity you know
00:11:22 ◼ ► and and I think that that's super neat and novel because it is very much like I forget which one
00:11:27 ◼ ► of you guys said it but very much like Twitter where you're watching these celebrities but even
00:11:31 ◼ ► more so you can talk to these celebrities and it with Twitter you're talking via your keyboard
00:11:35 ◼ ► with clubhouse you're talking with your voice and that I think is clever and novel and interesting
00:11:41 ◼ ► whether or not it's my cup of tea and I don't know again I haven't really properly tried it yet but
00:11:48 ◼ ► it doesn't strike me as the kind of thing I would like but I definitely do want to give it an honest
00:11:55 ◼ ► shake before I make up my mind someone it's a perfect opportunity for her million to do his
00:12:00 ◼ ► pre-taped call-in gag from was it from mr. show where you know if you wanted to call in about the
00:12:05 ◼ ► pets or the elderly should have called in last week because anyway it's complicated joke for me
00:12:10 ◼ ► to explain and I can't do it give me the bullet points I can't even do the bullet points but yeah
00:12:15 ◼ ► it's like a call-in show I mean we've all seen Colin you know am talk radio is like that hello
00:12:19 ◼ ► call you're on the line what do you have to say and they're pre screened and all this stuff but
00:12:22 ◼ ► now this is the disintermediated version where you're just plucked from the audience and allowed
00:12:27 ◼ ► to talk I thought it was even more of a free-for-all than that and maybe it can be but but yeah if you
00:12:31 ◼ ► have people picking people to come in and then you know then you get it's just a new venue for people
00:12:36 ◼ ► to say baba booey I guess right like or worse or much worse mmm because once you bless them to talk
00:12:42 ◼ ► now they have the microphone and everyone can hear them and yeah chat roulette let's never forget but
00:12:48 ◼ ► anyway I don't I don't mean to say that it's not a good thing and I definitely want to try it mostly
00:12:53 ◼ ► the reason I want to try it it's because I want my damn username do they have usernames yes I probably
00:12:58 ◼ ► don't I probably already don't have my username you should cut this part out of the show someone's
00:13:02 ◼ ► gonna go do you want me to give you one yes please do well that's the other thing very quickly I have
00:13:08 ◼ ► like five invites please don't ask me but I can't use them because the only way to use them is to
00:13:14 ◼ ► let clubhouse have access to slurp up all of your contacts like I would absolutely send you an invite
00:13:19 ◼ ► right now nope sorry John yeah exactly so I would send you an invite right now John if it wasn't for
00:13:25 ◼ ► the fact that they the only way to do an invite is to bless contacts access to the app where you know
00:13:32 ◼ ► they're gonna slurp up all of your data and do probably something terrible with you probably
00:13:37 ◼ ► have a spare device that you can turn off contacts from iCloud and delete all your contacts and send
00:13:43 ◼ ► me the right code right do I really want do I really like you that much I mean don't you have
00:13:47 ◼ ► spare devices hanging around the good things you test on yeah so easy so easy just to log out of
00:13:52 ◼ ► iCloud and turn off your contacts all right so I have a quick hot take on that actually why is
00:13:59 ◼ ► the address book API still a thing yeah my opinion is that Apple needs to deprecate and remove the
00:14:07 ◼ ► contact access API address book API I strongly disagree no it should it should be like photos do
00:14:13 ◼ ► you want this app to have access to one photo that you select to all your content like and there's so
00:14:18 ◼ ► many ways to do the exact same features with no loss of functionality without actually giving the
00:14:23 ◼ ► app access to your contacts you know what I mean I don't want the ability for people with one or
00:14:28 ◼ ► two taps to be able to share their entire address book even with their permission to some some new
00:14:35 ◼ ► app because here's why the reason why this is this is kind of a special case is that when you grant
00:14:41 ◼ ► access to your address book to some app that app not only has access to your personal information
00:14:49 ◼ ► but to the personal information of potentially hundreds of other people who didn't consent to
00:14:53 ◼ ► that and so it's different when you're sharing your photo library you're sharing your information
00:14:59 ◼ ► you are choosing and saying I'm gonna share my information with this app when you share your
00:15:02 ◼ ► contact list you're sharing a bunch of information for people from people who did not consent to that
00:15:07 ◼ ► and can't consent to that it's basically it's basically the same thing because when you share
00:15:11 ◼ ► your photo library you're sharing photos of people who may not have consented for you to share their
00:15:15 ◼ ► photo with this company but you have pictures of them like it's you know it's a very different
00:15:19 ◼ ► thing okay because it actually it's not even it contacts is actually better because presumably
00:15:24 ◼ ► someone gave you that contact info whereas you took that picture of that person they may not have
00:15:28 ◼ ► consented to that photo but they were in public so they have no choice and now their photo you're
00:15:32 ◼ ► giving it to somebody else it's the same deal I get implicitly when someone gives you information
00:15:37 ◼ ► or when you get information through some means that is deemed acceptable like taking a photo in
00:15:43 ◼ ► public that you can then there's an understanding that you can then take that information and do
00:15:49 ◼ ► something else with it that they don't control that's the price of giving it to you so if you
00:15:53 ◼ ► give someone your contact information you understand that they could share that contact information
00:15:57 ◼ ► with whoever they want now you can get mad at them about it and you can say I wish they wouldn't
00:16:01 ◼ ► share with these app vendors and you could be mad at an API saying they didn't mean to share
00:16:05 ◼ ► it or they don't understand what it means to share it but in the end it's the same thing once you
00:16:09 ◼ ► give the information to someone else it's under their control who knows what could happen to it
00:16:12 ◼ ► from there and I feel like photos are very similar especially I mean you're thinking of like someone's
00:16:16 ◼ ► in the background a picture that's not a big deal but what if it's like a photo of a personal nature
00:16:20 ◼ ► let's say and that's why we have laws against you know revenge porn and all sorts of stuff like that
00:16:25 ◼ ► but even if it's just an embarrassing picture of you looking goofy and you really wish that person
00:16:30 ◼ ► hadn't uploaded it to some thing that put it online for everyone to see and find forever you
00:16:36 ◼ ► know I think in both cases I'm with you that I think there should be much more control over what
00:16:41 ◼ ► shared and it should be much harder to indiscriminately share but I think that both situations are similar
00:16:47 ◼ ► and that once in once you give information that you care about to somebody else you are at their
00:16:52 ◼ ► mercy somewhat you're at the mercy of their decisions to some degree yeah but I think there's
00:16:57 ◼ ► a huge difference in degree and in in actionable uses between leaking of other people's data through
00:17:04 ◼ ► photo access and through contact access I mean through photos what are you gonna do like upload
00:17:08 ◼ ► two terabytes of photos to your service but that's somebody noticing like that's that's kind of a big
00:17:12 ◼ ► deal and then once you have those photos what do you like are you gonna like analyze every single
00:17:18 ◼ ► one of them to try to match faces whereas like a contact book the entire contact book is uploaded
00:17:23 ◼ ► within what a few hundred kilobytes then you have all the data in seconds and then every single bit
00:17:29 ◼ ► of that data is instantly cross-referenceable to get you know emails phone numbers for all these
00:17:34 ◼ ► people and so the the degree of leaking other people's personal data and the ease with which
00:17:40 ◼ ► it is leaked through the address book API is so much higher and easier for bad actors to use you
00:17:46 ◼ ► can instantly spam them you because you know you know how to contact them so you can like instantly
00:17:50 ◼ ► spam these people you can you can send emails you can send text messages you can cross-reference
00:17:54 ◼ ► those phone numbers with other databases and everything it's it's such a different degree
00:17:58 ◼ ► that Apple should not be in the business of enabling apps to have massive instant privacy
00:18:07 ◼ ► violations for everybody you know in a way that the user might not be considering or might not even
00:18:13 ◼ ► be thinking about like oh maybe there's somebody in my contact list who like just got a new phone
00:18:18 ◼ ► number for some good reason and they don't want all these services or the people to know it you
00:18:22 ◼ ► know like there's so many so many like bad abuse cases where the address book you know mass data
00:18:29 ◼ ► dumps to a service can be instantly used wrong and instantly have negative effects whereas like
00:18:34 ◼ ► picking a few photos for an app to see is a very very different context and I guess I don't think
00:18:39 ◼ ► there's enough positive uses of the entire contact list API to make up for this massive
00:18:47 ◼ ► negative downside that's that's not only possible but that's probably much more frequently used than
00:18:52 ◼ ► any positive use case I mean you can also give access to all your photos and I feel like the
00:18:56 ◼ ► protection of data volume for photos is kind of like the protection of data volume for movies like
00:19:01 ◼ ► in the beginning of piracy it was difficult to even pass around mp3s and the idea that we would
00:19:07 ◼ ► be passing around you know pirated movies to each other was ridiculous because who can put an entire
00:19:12 ◼ ► movie you don't have a room for that in your hard drive it's just a matter of time before that stuff
00:19:16 ◼ ► becomes tractable as well and I feel like it's the same deal yes contacts is obviously you know the
00:19:21 ◼ ► the best case because it's a low volume of data because people don't have a hundred thousand
00:19:24 ◼ ► contacts and it's text so it's real easy even if you set aside the contact images right it's also
00:19:28 ◼ ► precise like a phone number and email address are precise like they specifically identify somebody
00:19:33 ◼ ► with very high certainty but I mean the photos have the potential location information and I
00:19:38 ◼ ► feel like the thing the thing that is protecting currently protecting photos and videos from the
00:19:44 ◼ ► same problems that you're describing is the the volume of the you know the data and the precision
00:19:51 ◼ ► that we are able to extract from photos but imagine a future where it is extremely easy
00:19:56 ◼ ► and there are giant databases to cross reference locations and faces and people where you can just
00:20:01 ◼ ► go to a website of some terrible company that has aggregated all this information because they made
00:20:06 ◼ ► some cool fun thing that everyone needs to use that you have permission to access all your stuff
00:20:10 ◼ ► and say show me all the pictures of this person when they were on vacation at Disney World and you
00:20:14 ◼ ► and it can aggregate photos and do a 3d render of a fly-through of you walking around the Disney
00:20:19 ◼ ► Park collected from thousands of people's phones who took pictures with you in the background that
00:20:23 ◼ ► sounds ridiculous now it's like oh think of the data that would take and the computation and it's
00:20:27 ◼ ► going to be in a freaking web page in 20 years right so I you know I get it I mean the future is
00:20:33 ◼ ► the future and we're talking about the present and yes contact should definitely be locked down it's
00:20:36 ◼ ► the worst case scenario right now but I think photos and videos are just as bad if not worse
00:20:41 ◼ ► and we're just protected for them essentially by being down in the slowness to use a reference from
00:20:46 ◼ ► a cool science fiction novel I read once and that sometime within our lifetime photos and videos
00:20:52 ◼ ► will fall to the same thing that contacts do now and especially if we forbid contacts but still
00:20:56 ◼ ► allow access to all photos if you with one tap that's where they'll go next just because who
00:21:01 ◼ ► knows what you can extract how many people have ever taken a picture of their driver's license or
00:21:05 ◼ ► an ID card to upload with it something that requires identification and a website and left
00:21:09 ◼ ► that picture in the camera roll and forgot about it you might not be able to find it but the
00:21:12 ◼ ► computers can right so you know this is a grim warning from the the future of even cheaper
00:21:19 ◼ ► computation we should protect our photos and videos too well on an infinite time scale you're
00:21:23 ◼ ► right but today address book access is instantly way more problematic than photo access 20 years
00:21:30 ◼ ► not infinite time scale I'm putting a cap on this one all right so as someone who has actually
00:21:34 ◼ ► worked heavily with the contacts API may I have a chance please I think I see both of you to be
00:21:40 ◼ ► honest I I think for me the rightest answer is the same style of API where you get different levels
00:21:48 ◼ ► of access such that one could bless an app to have the ability to slurp up all their contacts however
00:21:55 ◼ ► I definitely see Marco's point and I think the thing that strikes me about contacts in particular
00:22:03 ◼ ► is that to my eyes today it's more actionable and I think one of you said precise a second ago but
00:22:10 ◼ ► it's more actionable like when I have a photograph of Marco that's been uploaded yeah I guess if it
00:22:15 ◼ ► was a weird photo of Marco like a computer could maybe figure out that it was an uncomfortable
00:22:20 ◼ ► photo of Marco and like do something with it maybe but when I upload Marco's phone number
00:22:25 ◼ ► somebody could call him right then and interrupt his day right then and so it is far more actionable
00:22:32 ◼ ► data then I think a photograph is at least today you can do associations with photos here's Marco
00:22:38 ◼ ► with the founder of the Proud Boys not an actual thing that happened sure no problem we could do
00:22:43 ◼ ► that today with machine learning and start doing graphs of associations especially you have dates
00:22:47 ◼ ► and locations to say this person that was with ate dinner with this person this time in this location
00:22:52 ◼ ► that's current technology and I feel like that is probably more damning than realistically speaking
00:22:57 ◼ ► someone's cell phone number or their email address which honestly is pretty easy to get via
00:23:02 ◼ ► other means and it's not like most people in their contacts have everyone's mailing address listed so
00:23:07 ◼ ► contacts are bad but I think photos I feel like you just need a little bit of imagination to
00:23:12 ◼ ► understand exactly how bad that can be because it's not like they're going to look for the
00:23:15 ◼ ► embarrassing picture of you they're gonna do the same crap they do with contact information which
00:23:19 ◼ ► is make graphs of associations and times and places put you in demographics guess your age
00:23:24 ◼ ► and your gender figure out if you're about to have a baby like all the things that they can do based
00:23:28 ◼ ► on all your other activity photos is a treasure trove of that crap and if you lock down contacts
00:23:34 ◼ ► or make it more difficult to retrieve or everyone uses sign in with Apple and doesn't give people
00:23:38 ◼ ► their email addresses photos is a goldmine I I still I agree with you but I still think contacts
00:23:45 ◼ ► are far more problematic in today's world but all of that said I once wrote an app that slurped up
00:23:52 ◼ ► all your contacts and did something I'd like to think novel and interesting with them and and I
00:23:58 ◼ ► would hate for there to be a scenario wherein a user couldn't use my app because there was no API
00:24:06 ◼ ► for it now maybe that's the cost of doing business but I think it's a very tough pickle for Apple to
00:24:11 ◼ ► be in where they don't necessarily want to kill them yet to the world because I did that already
00:24:16 ◼ ► they don't want to kill the vignettes of the world or whatever the case may be but they also don't
00:24:21 ◼ ► want to make it easy for the clubhouses of the world and maybe I'm unfairly besmirching them but
00:24:25 ◼ ► you know the club houses of the world to do something nefarious with your contacts so what
00:24:30 ◼ ► is the happy medium well I guess you trust the user which is what John was saying what I think
00:24:34 ◼ ► I agree with but oh no what I was saying is you could make an API that lets you do all the features
00:24:39 ◼ ► that you care about forget about the vignettes was honestly vignette should be a feature that's built
00:24:42 ◼ ► into the OS like sure kind of like it is now well not really but like exactly what he did is like
00:24:48 ◼ ► well there you might have other pictures and other services so the OS will go out and find them right
00:24:53 ◼ ► that's that's really just something like another example of a third-party mix thing Apple should
00:24:57 ◼ ► really put in the OS right but everything else like auto completes or even sending the contacts
00:25:01 ◼ ► there is no reason that the app ever needs to see that data to a to accomplish those features right
00:25:07 ◼ ► like you can you can have an autocomplete in a in a widget that runs with XPC and another process
00:25:13 ◼ ► that is essentially as far as the app is concerned a fancy way for you the user to autocomplete
00:25:17 ◼ ► something but the app only ever sees what you finish autocompleting and type into the text
00:25:21 ◼ ► field it has no idea like what was being fed into the autocomplete that's an eminently makeable API
00:25:27 ◼ ► right and same thing with like oh do you want to you know send this thing out to a bunch of your
00:25:33 ◼ ► friends here pick a bunch of these friends from this list and another UI comes up that the app
00:25:38 ◼ ► does not control that runs in another process lets you select contacts and is mediated by an
00:25:43 ◼ ► Apple service that hides all the email addresses like there that functionality that is a quote-unquote
00:25:48 ◼ ► essential part of a smooth application experience can be done without giving applications access to
00:25:54 ◼ ► any of your contact information the address book API the Marco is talking about does not do that
00:25:59 ◼ ► and so that's why yes the that API should be canned and replaced with a better one that never
00:26:04 ◼ ► actually gives your app access to anything because in most cases unlike photos where the app literally
00:26:09 ◼ ► does need one photo if it's like a photo editor or something needs at least one photo you need to
00:26:13 ◼ ► give the app the photo otherwise it can't edit but you don't actually need to give the app the contact
00:26:17 ◼ ► in many cases especially given that Apple has this whole thing now where they make their own private
00:26:22 ◼ ► email addresses with random names and connect it up to your own behind the scenes so the plumbing is
00:26:26 ◼ ► already there to essentially never give apps access to contacts yeah it's it's an interesting it I
00:26:31 ◼ ► guess what I'm saying is it's an interesting tug of war that I think Apple would have to go through
00:26:36 ◼ ► like what you're describing is somewhere between a moderate to massive engineering challenge I'd
00:26:41 ◼ ► reckon but it's not unreasonable especially for a company that's as big and as everywhere as Apple
00:26:46 ◼ ► is but here again I keep coming down to you know I my initial take is of course let everyone have
00:26:52 ◼ ► access to everything and then you see the clubhouses and all the other gross things in the world and
00:26:56 ◼ ► then you come to Marco's point of view you know the little balls the the Jacob's ladder or whatever
00:27:00 ◼ ► it is you know that bunk into each other I forget what that thing is called anyways Jacob's ladder is
00:27:04 ◼ ► the thing with the electric spark that goes up oh no that's not what I meant sorry you know what
00:27:08 ◼ ► I'm talking about the little desk cradle yes thank you Newton's cradle anyways so you know I start
00:27:13 ◼ ► all the way on the right hand side with sure why not give everyone access to all the contacts what
00:27:17 ◼ ► could go wrong and then you see what goes wrong and then you know the the ball falls and it bunks
00:27:22 ◼ ► and other intermediate balls now I'm swinging the other way of oh you should only ever be allowed
00:27:26 ◼ ► like anonymized contacts or whatever the case would be but but for Apple I think you need to
00:27:31 ◼ ► kind of ride that line and and that's a very very difficult thing to do and that's one of the things
00:27:36 ◼ ► that I think I lose sight of when I criticize Apple a lot is that it's a very different thing to have
00:27:43 ◼ ► to be all things to all people and it's a very different thing operating at the scale that they
00:27:47 ◼ ► operate at where a bug that hits one tenth of one percent of all users like I don't know my SMS bug
00:27:53 ◼ ► which by the way is mostly gone away for reasons I don't understand anyways for a bug that hits
00:28:00 ◼ ► one percent of all users that's still like a million a hundred million ten million users
00:28:05 ◼ ► however many ridiculous amounts of users it is and so it's just it's hard it's a hard thing because
00:28:09 ◼ ► you don't know where the line really should be but certainly if Apple's going to say we're the
00:28:15 ◼ ► privacy company we're the privacy company then I would say they should error on the side of what
00:28:20 ◼ ► Marco is saying which is you know no contacts access at all plus address book is like a cc plus
00:28:25 ◼ ► plus API isn't it so it's just candid for that reason it's it's gotten better but it's not good
00:28:30 ◼ ► and like and to be clear like I'm not saying that there's no legitimate users API I'm not saying
00:28:35 ◼ ► that certain things wouldn't get worse without this API but I do think though is that this API
00:28:40 ◼ ► the benefits that it brings are substantially less than the privacy damage it does especially
00:28:46 ◼ ► because of its nature of like such easily exploitable in mass data on not only the person
00:28:53 ◼ ► who's saying yeah allow allow contacts but on every single person they know that like whose
00:28:58 ◼ ► data they are giving away without those people's permission like that that to me is it's it's it's
00:29:03 ◼ ► really messy and and not not good and and that that seems to be like I think a good way to look
00:29:10 ◼ ► at it is like if Apple were designing this product today like this this whole OS this whole platform
00:29:16 ◼ ► from scratch today would they offer that access to anybody of course not like because like today's
00:29:23 ◼ ► privacy conscious Apple in today's like data leaky horrible tracking analytics world would they do
00:29:29 ◼ ► this if starting fresh today almost certainly not and so I think that's that's a good reason you know
00:29:35 ◼ ► ignore the sunk cost here that's a pretty good reason to say that we probably shouldn't have
00:29:38 ◼ ► this API today yeah for sure they wouldn't do it today and like as an example of you know going
00:29:43 ◼ ► back far enough Unix was like that in the beginning created in a you know hippie-dippie environment
00:29:48 ◼ ► where we're all just computer users here and we all trust each other and everything is open for
00:29:53 ◼ ► the most part even though you next had a permission system and everything even when I first arrived at
00:29:57 ◼ ► college and got on my first Unix system in the early 90s it was basically a free-for-all like
00:30:04 ◼ ► there was no SSH telnet FTP plaintext passwords everywhere world writable ttys and and you would
00:30:12 ◼ ► think oh well that's the internet age everyone was savvy then and knew about bad things that could
00:30:15 ◼ ► happen no no they didn't know we had to teach them by being terrible people by the time I left that
00:30:21 ◼ ► school I told the story or they had locked down you know world writable ttys were no longer a thing
00:30:25 ◼ ► and SSH was starting to you know come into being and telnet and FTP with plaintext communications
00:30:33 ◼ ► of passwords were out of fashion because too many people were hacked and you know being able to get
00:30:38 ◼ ► the ciphertext from the password file was also out of favor and there were alternatives to that and
00:30:42 ◼ ► it you know that's that's the way things go and so you know the iPhone was made in 2007 at that point
00:30:48 ◼ ► like stuff that like what path did you remember path the company like took all your contacts and
00:30:52 ◼ ► uploaded it to a server yeah Apple made that API and they were still in the hippie-dippie Unix
00:30:57 ◼ ► mindset of like well you know we're making a platform and it's super secure and it's sandbox
00:31:01 ◼ ► and boy isn't this iPhone security amazing but like they still didn't have a full grasp of the
00:31:06 ◼ ► bad actors right it's just you know you people can do incredibly novel it's like no one's ever
00:31:11 ◼ ► gonna like what good would it do to secretly take all your contacts and uploaded what what value is
00:31:16 ◼ ► there in having everybody's contacts all together because having millions and millions of contacts
00:31:21 ◼ ► like that's not useful it's just too much data it turns out that actually is very useful to
00:31:25 ◼ ► advertising companies Apple didn't foresee that so they made an API that seemed like a good idea
00:31:30 ◼ ► at the time despite the fact that this API was on a system that they were like locking down with
00:31:35 ◼ ► the with the tightest security they could imagine with all you know the applications can't do
00:31:40 ◼ ► whatever they want and no private API's and everything sandbox and everything is encrypted
00:31:44 ◼ ► they were doing all that but at the same time they didn't understand that oh yeah there's actually
00:31:48 ◼ ► value in just on mass extracting everybody's contacts and jamming them up to a server at
00:31:54 ◼ ► which point they become a giant bucket of you know slop for the ad industry so yeah live and learn
00:32:00 ◼ ► I have some follow-up about my question last week about where we would live if not the East Coast
00:32:07 ◼ ► but to ease into that and to kind of get us in the right mood Marco if you had to live in another
00:32:13 ◼ ► country where would you where would you live oh that's a good question and I'll accept like you
00:32:19 ◼ ► know a top two or three if you need you know whatever the case may be do I instantly magically
00:32:23 ◼ ► know the language of any of another country or do I have to stick with what I know now oh no that's
00:32:27 ◼ ► that's cheating mmm I like the spirit of your question but let I concur with John for the
00:32:33 ◼ ► purposes of what I'm driving at let's say no you do not know the language I mean you can learn it
00:32:38 ◼ ► if you want but you don't instantly magically get to know right okay so that's gonna that's gonna
00:32:42 ◼ ► restrict me not because I refuse to learn anything new but because I'm extremely self-conscious about
00:32:47 ◼ ► that and so I would not want to live somewhere where I don't already know the language so that
00:32:51 ◼ ► will limit it to either English speaking or at least like commonly English familiar countries
00:32:55 ◼ ► like Germany when I've traveled to Germany I wish I've liked a lot and actually might be my answer
00:33:00 ◼ ► here so many people there know English that it wasn't a big problem for me to not know much if
00:33:09 ◼ ► any German I could plausibly live there and get by okay while I learn the language a little bit
00:33:15 ◼ ► better so like that that's an option ultimately I would probably end up picking the UK is that a
00:33:24 ◼ ► country wait England one of them yeah because I have really enjoyed the what I've seen of the UK
00:33:35 ◼ ► both London and even other cities as well I've enjoyed that a lot so probably yeah probably
00:33:40 ◼ ► either Germany or England John this is a tricky because I never go anywhere the only other
00:33:47 ◼ ► countries I've ever been to are the UK and Canada that's not much to choose from based on personal
00:33:54 ◼ ► experience and both of those places I've only been to briefly I the reason I'm hesitant to pick the
00:34:01 ◼ ► UK is now because I don't like it because I've spent a total of about you know a little over
00:34:06 ◼ ► two weeks in the UK and I thought it was great I loved it but of all the English-speaking speaking
00:34:11 ◼ ► countries in the world there seemed to have a government that is the second worst screwed up
00:34:17 ◼ ► second to us that would be depressing to me to leave like the most screwed up English speaking
00:34:23 ◼ ► government in the world being the US for the second most and it's like oh come on there's so
00:34:28 ◼ ► many better choices you got to go to the second worst like it's just it's all the same problems
00:34:32 ◼ ► but like with a different accent and on a smaller scale and that would really depress me so I end up
00:34:38 ◼ ► leaning towards places that I've never been but just seeing pictures of and the thing that comes
00:34:42 ◼ ► to mind immediately and maybe this would be a terrible mistake I don't know because I've never
00:34:45 ◼ ► actually been there but New Zealand hmm yeah I thought about that it's it's beautiful that people
00:34:52 ◼ ► are saying it really looks like it's probably a nice place I don't know maybe I'd go stir crazy
00:34:57 ◼ ► on a little island maybe I wouldn't like the culture or something but boy in pictures it looks
00:35:01 ◼ ► really good and their government is not screwed up and they speak English ish yeah there's a lot
00:35:09 ◼ ► of asterisks on that but yes yeah yeah I did go there and I I love New Zealand it is a bit far
00:35:16 ◼ ► from from North America in ways that I think would would irritate me and I found that the internet
00:35:24 ◼ ► connection situation in New Zealand and from what I hear I believe this applies to Australia as well
00:35:29 ◼ ► is generally not it's it's harder to get really good fast internet connections there and that
00:35:35 ◼ ► could be outdated information I'm sorry because for everybody lives there because otherwise I
00:35:39 ◼ ► think both Australia and New Zealand seem to be significantly better run as countries than what
00:35:47 ◼ ► we have here Australia's got a little bit of a screwed up government and it's mostly a giant
00:35:51 ◼ ► desert so I'm a little bit wary of that I've seen too many Mad Max movies but it also doesn't have
00:35:56 ◼ ► bad winters so that's a feature for me and I don't want to give a candidate a short shrift it's just
00:36:01 ◼ ► I know it's Canada you're gonna feel bad it's the cold I'm sorry you're actually pretty far north
00:36:06 ◼ ► I don't think I could do that sorry yeah Canada is beautiful in the summer I would I cannot do
00:36:12 ◼ ► more severe winters than what I have now yeah for me you know I think if I were really and truly
00:36:17 ◼ ► being honest with myself if I really and truly had to leave America I would go to Canada despite the
00:36:23 ◼ ► fact that the thought of a Canadian winner just chills me to the bone and much less actually being
00:36:27 ◼ ► in a Canadian winner but that being said in this fantasy world where I think I could handle you
00:36:32 ◼ ► know moving that far away from everyone I knew I think the UK would be a very strong contender I
00:36:38 ◼ ► think if I could convince myself that I could learn the language I would strongly consider
00:36:43 ◼ ► Germany as well you know we traveled there together Marco oh you went one other time with
00:36:47 ◼ ► before though didn't you okay yeah so my only experience with Germany is when we all went and
00:36:52 ◼ ► as we've said many many times on the show I freaking loved it and I went into it thinking
00:36:56 ◼ ► well I mean I'm sure it'll be fine I've been to Europe a few times before and I've always liked
00:37:00 ◼ ► it and it'll be okay and I loved it I was very surprised with how much I enjoyed it and so I
00:37:05 ◼ ► like to think that I would give Germany a shot every American I've ever met that has spent any
00:37:10 ◼ ► time in Australia swears that they would move there if they were given the opportunity and I
00:37:15 ◼ ► think that the same is probably true of New Zealand but I don't think in you Marco you said
00:37:19 ◼ ► this a second ago I don't think I could stand being that physically far away from everyone that
00:37:24 ◼ ► I knew I mean not in a literal sense of course that's hyperbole but you know I don't think I
00:37:29 ◼ ► don't think I could handle being that far away from like my family they know my extended family
00:37:33 ◼ ► and so many of my friends and so on so I think realistically Canada would probably be my first
00:37:39 ◼ ► choice because of proximity and in a fantasy world where I could do whatever I would probably try for
00:37:45 ◼ ► Germany and realistically end up in the UK now that brings us into our follow-up many people
00:37:52 ◼ ► are many people were perturbed of varying degrees sometimes amusingly perturbed and sometimes
00:37:59 ◼ ► genuinely perturbed that we forgot about the Midwest and the Great Lakes we didn't forget
00:38:03 ◼ ► oh no we didn't forget you guys you I'm from the Midwest yeah you all forget that they have awful
00:38:10 ◼ ► winters there oh no I'm absolutely not doing that I know that the summers are gorgeous I've lived in
00:38:16 ◼ ► the Midwest I know it but winter hell no absolutely not not even not even possible no yeah I mean
00:38:24 ◼ ► growing up in Ohio and then going to college in Pennsylvania I am done with winters there that
00:38:30 ◼ ► like that was enough the winters are way colder way icier in the case of northwestern Pennsylvania
00:38:38 ◼ ► way snowier because it's neither Great Lakes and that whole thing and then also the summers are
00:38:44 ◼ ► also hotter like but you know the further inland you are you typically don't have you know the the
00:38:49 ◼ ► tempering effect of being closer to the ocean so it's actually it's the only less temperate so you
00:38:55 ◼ ► have much bigger extremes of you know you have way colder winters way hotter summers I've lived
00:39:01 ◼ ► that for a long time if I'm picking places to go I'm gonna try to make an improvement on that area
00:39:07 ◼ ► not make things worse yeah and I mean I think it does fit the bill in a lot of ways if you can live
00:39:14 ◼ ► the snowbird life you know the Great Lakes are enormous they do have plenty of beaches in some
00:39:19 ◼ ► ways you could almost argue that the Great Lakes are an improvement over the ocean because you know
00:39:23 ◼ ► they're not saltwater and there's fewer waves if you have small children for example this makes them
00:39:28 ◼ ► worse we've discussed the mud beach Casey I know I'm just saying you could make an argument but
00:39:33 ◼ ► those winners absolutely not absolutely not so thank you all of you from the Midwest we hear you
00:39:38 ◼ ► we love you but now moving on last week we discussed I believe in ask ATP some precious
00:39:46 ◼ ► media that we all have and I got a couple of people emailing me saying in nice ways stop being
00:39:58 ◼ ► and so as I sit here tonight on the evening of February 17th the concert for Charlottesville
00:40:04 ◼ ► that I spoke about many times in the past I have uploaded it to archive org and it is still there
00:40:09 ◼ ► as of right now it is I believe 13 gigs it is a 10-hour show I think I said six last last week but
00:40:16 ◼ ► it's actually a 10-hour video and I believe that all of the chapters I put in to mark each
00:40:22 ◼ ► individual artist performance did survive the upload and then I redownload from other people
00:40:27 ◼ ► on the internet so if you would like to check out this concert which I really think is a really
00:40:33 ◼ ► special thing I strongly recommend it I will say that if you try to just stream it from archive
00:40:40 ◼ ► org it does not seem to work in my experience you have to download all 13 gigs and they seem to be
00:40:46 ◼ ► throttling it to about a megabyte a second so it'll take a while but it is very good and if you're
00:40:52 ◼ ► interested it is up and I wrote a small blog post about it which we link in the show notes I've just
00:40:56 ◼ ► been ignoring this Charlottesville thing because I just assumed that there are no bands that I have
00:41:00 ◼ ► heard of or care about in it but is that actually the case Casey which is no thing that I should
00:41:05 ◼ ► watch tell me something that I that was that played there that I would be interested in I
00:41:09 ◼ ► think that's quite possible it was opened with well there was a small Dave Matthews by himself
00:41:17 ◼ ► performance but it's Cage the elephant who I'd never heard of and I found to be okay it was shoot
00:41:24 ◼ ► two guys from Coldplay the the singer pianist whose name is Chris Martin and Johnny Greenwood is the
00:41:31 ◼ ► guitarist I hope I have that right it doesn't matter if I don't you it's the guitarist and the
00:41:35 ◼ ► singer from Coldplay just the two of them their performance was good and there were some really
00:41:39 ◼ ► funny honest moments in that where Chris Martin says you know I want to try I think was a Beatles
00:41:46 ◼ ► song or maybe it's not I forget who it was but I want to try this cover please don't put it on
00:41:51 ◼ ► YouTube if it sucks because I don't want to be embarrassed about it but for the rest of my life
00:41:54 ◼ ► so that that I think is worth it the best performance possibly the entire show I think was
00:42:01 ◼ ► the roots which are not a band that I typically like but they did a lot of like old-school soul
00:42:07 ◼ ► covers which I thought was really really good I'm being told real-time follow-up Johnny Greenwood
00:42:12 ◼ ► his radio had my bad so anyways the roots and then Pharrell comes out with the roots and that was very
00:42:17 ◼ ► good Chris Stapleton who was country singer who I can tell is very good but it's not really my cup
00:42:22 ◼ ► of tea area Ariana Grande did a solo set like she was the only person on stage against like a you
00:42:27 ◼ ► know backing tape if you will and her performance was actually very good another great one was
00:42:32 ◼ ► Justin Timberlake who I know was really problematic right now but if you can accept just his
00:42:37 ◼ ► performance and not anything else about him his set was extremely good and then Marco's favorite
00:42:44 ◼ ► band in the entire world the Dave Matthews band closes it out including a guest appearance from
00:42:47 ◼ ► Stevie Wonder which is pretty cool then like I said the whole thing is something like 10 hours
00:42:52 ◼ ► and I think it's worth at least listening to his background music you don't necessarily need to
00:42:58 ◼ ► watch it but it's it's a really really cool thing and they have some like interludes in in in the
00:43:03 ◼ ► in-between sections talking about you know what makes Charlottesville special what makes this
00:43:08 ◼ ► event so terrible well not the concert but the things leading up to the concert so terrible I
00:43:12 ◼ ► don't know I really think it's worth watching or listening to at least once but if none of those
00:43:18 ◼ ► artists mean anything to you then no don't bother we are sponsored this week by Linode my favorite
00:43:24 ◼ ► place to run all of my servers whether you're working on a personal project or managing an
00:43:29 ◼ ► entire enterprises infrastructure you deserve simple affordable and accessible cloud computing
00:43:34 ◼ ► solutions they like to take your project to the next level simplify your cloud infrastructure
00:43:39 ◼ ► with Linodes Linux virtual machines and develop deploy and scale your modern applications faster
00:43:44 ◼ ► and easier I personally have been using Linode for about nine years eight years something like that
00:43:50 ◼ ► way before they were a sponsor of any of my stuff because I I really love Linode they're just a
00:43:55 ◼ ► great web host I've tried a lot of web hosts over the years believe me a lot and most of them you
00:44:02 ◼ ► know mediocre I stayed with them maybe six months or a year and then I moved on to something better
00:44:06 ◼ ► Linode is so great I've stuck with them this entire time the whole time they've been the best value
00:44:11 ◼ ► I've seen in the business they have amazing performance they have amazing versatility amazing
00:44:16 ◼ ► support if you need it their control panel and API are all fantastic so you can really you know
00:44:21 ◼ ► support all your various needs very well they have specialty things covered things like their new s3
00:44:27 ◼ ► compatible object storage managed kubernetes support different resource levels and stuff like
00:44:32 ◼ ► that GPU compute plans all sorts of great stuff available at Linode you can get started today
00:44:37 ◼ ► with $100 in free credit at Linode comm slash ATP or text ATP to four seven four seven four seven to
00:44:46 ◼ ► get instant access to that hundred dollars in free credit once again Linode comm slash ATP or
00:44:53 ◼ ► text ATP to four seven four seven four seven for that hundred dollars in free credit and you can
00:44:59 ◼ ► spend that on their awesome dedicated compute instances their Linode virtual machines their
00:45:04 ◼ ► s3 compatible object storage all sorts of great stuff at Linode once again Linode comm slash ATP
00:45:10 ◼ ► create that free account to get started or text ATP to four seven four seven four seven get started
00:45:16 ◼ ► today thank you to Linode for hosting all my servers and sponsoring our show we have from
00:45:24 ◼ ► Richard Harris some more information about watch timers another obvious thing missing an Apple
00:45:29 ◼ ► watch timers wire timers set on my watch not synced with my phone and vice versa if I start a timer on
00:45:34 ◼ ► my phone I see the countdown on my phone lock screen but nothing appears on my Apple watch not
00:45:38 ◼ ► even when you go and open the watch timer app and if I start a timer on my watch there's no
00:45:42 ◼ ► corresponding countdown shown on my phone note that once the timer is set on my phone ends the
00:45:47 ◼ ► alert appears on both the phone and the watch even though the countdown did not this is a really good
00:45:50 ◼ ► point however I will say that I actually like this behavior because oftentimes I want a silent
00:45:57 ◼ ► timer and in my experience I maybe I have this wrong but I believe if you set a timer on your
00:46:03 ◼ ► phone it's going to be even if you're in silent mode or you know vibrate mode or whatever but if
00:46:07 ◼ ► you set it on your watch and if your watch is in tap tap tap mode it will just have to tap you and
00:46:11 ◼ ► that's that so I understand Richard's point but I actually kind of like it the way it is but maybe
00:46:16 ◼ ► I'm bananas Marco what do you think about this I mean it's a really tricky thing like you know you
00:46:22 ◼ ► could argue that should should things like timers sync across more like what about HomePod versus
00:46:28 ◼ ► phone like should those sync there's certainly utility to that like if HomePod watch and phone
00:46:33 ◼ ► all sync their timers then you could set a timer by shouting into the air no matter what device
00:46:38 ◼ ► picked it up you would have it displayed on all of them and they would I don't know all alert you
00:46:44 ◼ ► when it was over or something I'm not sure but that's the problem like when you when you start
00:46:49 ◼ ► figuring like okay what what what should the behavior be defined as in cases X Y & Z it starts
00:46:56 ◼ ► getting a little bit messy like you know like the silent switch you know should that be activated or
00:47:01 ◼ ► not you know if you have if it goes off on the HomePod or if you summit it on the HomePod then
00:47:07 ◼ ► should it go off on the HomePod every time or you know what if the HomePod is in the next room and
00:47:11 ◼ ► now you've you're in a different room should it go off then or should it only bring your phone what
00:47:15 ◼ ► if you expected to bring on the HomePod and your phone is actually sitting on the counter somewhere
00:47:19 ◼ ► and not in your pocket or not in your hand and then it buzzes just the phone then you miss it
00:47:23 ◼ ► like there's all sorts of weird cases that like once you start syncing stuff and having it try to
00:47:29 ◼ ► show up everywhere you start running into these kind of like you know messy areas of how the
00:47:34 ◼ ► behavior should should be and so it would be nice if there was more like unification like that in
00:47:40 ◼ ► many cases but not in all cases I think this is an obvious thing I agree with Richard that this is
00:47:46 ◼ ► obvious and this should absolutely be a feature but just because you have global awareness of a
00:47:51 ◼ ► thing and it's synchronized doesn't mean that you have to surface that so assuming that Apple could
00:47:57 ◼ ► get the sync right which is not a given based on how difficult it's been for them to sync like you
00:48:03 ◼ ► know what is it keyboard completions or whatever autocomplete things and other tiny pieces of data
00:48:08 ◼ ► that should be trivial to sync there should be global awareness of timers right and the default
00:48:12 ◼ ► behavior should probably be like it is now which is everybody in the nose and the house that's
00:48:17 ◼ ► signed into your Apple ID knows about the timers they don't do anything about them just the device
00:48:22 ◼ ► you did it on does something about them right and then if you have desires like you know like Richard
00:48:28 ◼ ► like you know what I would actually like whenever I set a timer on my phone and watch them to show
00:48:31 ◼ ► each other or whatever you can opt into that because global awareness of the timer is kind
00:48:36 ◼ ► of like having multiple timers like how hard a features that just have multiple timers in the
00:48:39 ◼ ► air right it was like oh it's too complicated or whatever just just allow that to exist and allow
00:48:44 ◼ ► there to be global awareness and allow people to opt in even if it's like hey you're in the room
00:48:49 ◼ ► with the HomePod the HomePod knows about your timer it's not going to ring you because you
00:48:54 ◼ ► said it on your phone right but you could ask the HomePod hey but how's that you know what do you
00:48:59 ◼ ► call a potato timer doing and the HomePod won't be like I don't know what the hell you're talking
00:49:03 ◼ ► about potato timer it'll be like oh I know about that because behind the scenes we've all been
00:49:07 ◼ ► talking to each other and synchronizing through iCloud because it's just a timer and it's really
00:49:10 ◼ ► easy to sync it's got like a string and like the start time and the you know it's like it's not a
00:49:16 ◼ ► lot of data that's exactly what you're looking for from the Apple ecosystem global awareness not
00:49:21 ◼ ► necessarily global cacophony of alarms going off or whatever so I think starting from a baseline
00:49:28 ◼ ► of trivial data should be synced everywhere and do not leap from that to oh and should automatically
00:49:35 ◼ ► display everywhere automatically off anywhere and don't even try to do like oh well proximity like
00:49:39 ◼ ► as Apple has all these proximity API's where it tries to figure out what you're near to don't even
00:49:43 ◼ ► try to do that if you can't nail it just by default you set the timer on your phone it goes off in your
00:49:47 ◼ ► phone but if you happen to be someone else you can ask the HomePod to do it and if you really want it
00:49:53 ◼ ► to always show up on your watch you can ask it just like now like the whole reason that Richard
00:49:56 ◼ ► said that this shows up on the alert shows up is because there is a single option that says hey do
00:50:01 ◼ ► you want me to your phone to mirror the alerts your watch to mirror the alerts on your phone or
00:50:06 ◼ ► not and that's it that's the only option and that's the same type of thing could be with like timers
00:50:10 ◼ ► hey do you want your watch to mirror the timers on your phone or not and that would be like opting
00:50:14 ◼ ► into I just always wanted to display in both cases that alone would be a big upgrade being able to
00:50:19 ◼ ► ask any Apple device and being able to opt into phone and watch synchronization because that makes
00:50:25 ◼ ► sense because they're both sort of like personal devices that you probably have on or near you as
00:50:29 ◼ ► opposed to HomePods and who knows what else which could be anywhere so I like this idea Apple should
00:50:34 ◼ ► do it I really wish Apple could I really wish we had faith to say that this task of synchronizing
00:50:40 ◼ ► tiny pieces of trivial information it's trivial ephemeral information we don't even care about
00:50:45 ◼ ► it can just go away after it's done I wish it was just a given that Apple would be able to instantly
00:50:50 ◼ ► sync that everywhere but unfortunately we can't we can't just assume that based on how well Apple
00:50:56 ◼ ► has done with syncing for real things in the past. All right Chris Harper writes in with some more
00:51:02 ◼ ► information on MDM which is mobile device management this comes out of Ask ATP last week
00:51:06 ◼ ► about would you let your personal life seep into your corporate devices Chris writes I manage about
00:51:12 ◼ ► 350 Apple devices using Jamf Pro who I believe were a past sponsor most of these are iPads but
00:51:17 ◼ ► some are iPhones and there are a few iPod touches in the mix what I've learned since we started
00:51:20 ◼ ► device management 2015 is that all the mobile device management platforms have pretty much the
00:51:24 ◼ ► same capabilities and Apple devices these platforms all operate differently but the commands they are
00:51:28 ◼ ► sending to the devices are all the same they are limited by what Apple allows there's a good support
00:51:32 ◼ ► article from Apple which will link in the show notes that explains MD Apple MDM in detail as
00:51:36 ◼ ► well as the differences between what is available for restrictions policies for supervised and non
00:51:41 ◼ ► supervised devices so quick aside from me from Apple they're quoting Apple supervision generally
00:51:46 ◼ ► denotes that the device is owned by the organization which provides additional control over its
00:51:51 ◼ ► configuration and restrictions so now back to Chris I was going to make a long list of things
00:51:56 ◼ ► that you can and can't do with MDM but then I found this helpful PDF linked in the show notes
00:52:00 ◼ ► that explains it well in particular take a look at page 10 so let me read from that PDF MDM can
00:52:05 ◼ ► see device name phone number serial number model name and number capacity and space available iOS
00:52:10 ◼ ► version number and installed apps MDM cannot see personal data such as personal or work email
00:52:16 ◼ ► calendars contacts SMS or iMessages Safari browser history which is something that I did not know I
00:52:23 ◼ ► assumed it could FaceTime or phone call logs personal reminders notes frequency of app use
00:52:28 ◼ ► and device location so back to Chris basically the IT MDM admin can see some basic info about the
00:52:33 ◼ ► device itself but nothing that is really personal and more appropriately they can't really see
00:52:36 ◼ ► anything that they don't already have access to in other ways things like the content and email
00:52:40 ◼ ► teams your file server slack etc those all exist in other server environments with their own ways of
00:52:45 ◼ ► monitoring employees for whatever reasons they may have so that's a bunch of words that to say that
00:52:51 ◼ ► it's not as scary as I had thought even and I assumed it wasn't quite as bad as I thought but
00:53:00 ◼ ► employer see that much that being said your employer can still read all the emails sent
00:53:06 ◼ ► via your employment email address they can read all your you know slack messages and so on so
00:53:11 ◼ ► it doesn't mean you're out of the woodwork but it's not as bad as I thought is that list of C
00:53:15 ◼ ► and can't see stuff from the supervised device or the non supervised you know that's a good question
00:53:20 ◼ ► I don't know to be honest with you I just clipped it out of the PDF and put it in the show notes
00:53:24 ◼ ► we'd have to look back in that PDF but that's it that's a very fair question I have to say the
00:53:30 ◼ ► other reason that I don't think we touched on about MDM on devices and why I was wary of it
00:53:35 ◼ ► it's kind of the same reason that I moan and complain about stuff on my laptops setting aside
00:53:39 ◼ ► the privacy stuff that software sometimes affects the both the performance and the sort of
00:53:51 ◼ ► obviously a much more of a free-for-all situation than on a phone but I've always imagined that some
00:53:57 ◼ ► kind of MDM stuff happening on my phone could also cause problems that otherwise wouldn't happen right
00:54:02 ◼ ► or wrong because I've never actually had a phone enrolled in MDM but just the idea of you know work
00:54:07 ◼ ► running software installing stuff you know doing whatever it is sending commands to my phone when
00:54:13 ◼ ► I don't know they're doing it they could potentially do things that you know slow down or screw up my
00:54:17 ◼ ► phone just doesn't seem appealing to me Jonathan Dietz writes in with some information on SSD
00:54:24 ◼ ► where in RAM can you tell us about this John this is a point we didn't bring up when we were fretting
00:54:30 ◼ ► about whether the SSD usage on M1 Macs was going to wear them out prematurely. Jonathan says NAND flash
00:54:38 ◼ ► memory endurance is based on a finite number of program slash erase or PE cycles of the individual
00:54:44 ◼ ► memory cells given equal workloads in SSD with twice the capacity having twice the number of
00:54:47 ◼ ► cells will last twice as long unless the additional page outs from having only 8 gigs of RAM rather
00:54:52 ◼ ► than 16 gigs of RAM resulted more than doubling your total lifetime rights to the SSD there's no
00:54:56 ◼ ► way that spending 200 bucks on 60 gigs of RAM instead of the 512 gigabyte storage option will
00:55:01 ◼ ► be better for extending the lifespan of your SSD so this is obvious but worth saying if you have a
00:55:07 ◼ ► the same amount of RAM right if the use is this or not the same amount of stuff that you're storing
00:55:12 ◼ ► but you get an SSD that's twice as big you've got more sort of green field that hasn't been worn out
00:55:18 ◼ ► by your activity like the more cells you have to wear out and if you use them the same amount which
00:55:23 ◼ ► is the real the real tricky part about this assumption then yeah we'll last twice as long
00:55:28 ◼ ► now in reality it's kind of like getting a bigger house if you get a bigger SSD you're gonna fill it
00:55:34 ◼ ► with stuff like no one gets a bigger SSD and says wow I've got all this free space now my SSD will
00:55:39 ◼ ► last long no you fill it with stuff so I think realistically I'm not sure how much this saves
00:55:45 ◼ ► people because it's inevitable that you will put stuff in it but in general more SSD to wear out
00:55:51 ◼ ► is better right now on this on this thread that you know this on Twitter there's been an ongoing
00:55:57 ◼ ► threads of people posting their numbers from the smart tools thing about their data being written
00:56:02 ◼ ► and I don't you know it keeps going on and people still keep getting staggered by the numbers when we
00:56:08 ◼ ► did comparisons last week Casey and I were in the same ballpark it didn't seem that ridiculous to
00:56:13 ◼ ► me but some numbers that these people are putting up seem a little bit ridiculous and I don't know
00:56:19 ◼ ► is this like a very you know because people use their computers for different things this is a
00:56:23 ◼ ► very strange scenario they is something going on with their particular computer is there a bug in
00:56:30 ◼ ► the tools that is reporting incorrect numbers I don't know but I pulled pulled out one will link
00:56:37 ◼ ► to the tweet this is from David he's got a 16 gig m1 macbook probably by the way most of these are
00:56:44 ◼ ► 16 gigs this is a bunch of computer nerds and they all bought the one with more RAM so I think the
00:56:48 ◼ ► only thing we can closely say is that 8 versus 16 gigs of RAM is not it's not a factor because almost
00:56:55 ◼ ► all these ridiculous numbers are from people with 16 gigs of RAM like it's not the swap that's doing
00:56:59 ◼ ► this or if it is it means these people need way more than 16 gigs of RAM and they can't get it
00:57:03 ◼ ► because that's all the m1s come with but anyway power on ours 432 that's a small number of hours
00:57:09 ◼ ► very small right data units written 150 terabytes really Wow so if we do the math on that that's
00:57:18 ◼ ► 347 gigabytes per hour written that doesn't seem right that seems much bigger than the numbers
00:57:24 ◼ ► that Casey and I had weren't we like 200 to 300 gigs per like day or month or something I already
00:57:32 ◼ ► forgot yeah I know anyway I don't remember our exact numbers referred to last week's show but
00:57:38 ◼ ► I keep in this thread of people just posting their numbers this was the one that I was like okay this
00:57:42 ◼ ► seems like this seems like it might be a problem because 350 gigs per hour something's going on
00:57:48 ◼ ► here so I again it's trivially easy to do that amount of I/O just get something that is constantly
00:57:55 ◼ ► writes big files use DD in a for loop like you can absolutely do this like there's there's no
00:58:00 ◼ ► problem doing this the question and the question is like are these people using their computers in
00:58:05 ◼ ► a normal way and this is some kind of systemic problem I don't understand how it could be like
00:58:09 ◼ ► what is it what are they you know this is one of those sort of vague slow-motion computer panics
00:58:14 ◼ ► or if you're like something is going on but no one will ever say okay what what's going on
00:58:18 ◼ ► computers are knowable this is the thing we should be able to know you can't just say but something's
00:58:22 ◼ ► going on with these M ones they're wearing out as a steeze are are they how are they wearing out
00:58:27 ◼ ► those it's not the type of thing you can't just leave it there and say they're wearing out their
00:58:30 ◼ ► SSDs look at these numbers okay what's doing that run FS usage figure it out you know so I don't
00:58:35 ◼ ► know what the problem is and it's frustratingly vague and I don't like vague technical problems
00:58:40 ◼ ► but all I know is if you want to follow us on Twitter feel free to look at this thread and
00:58:43 ◼ ► watch people slowly vaguely panic about high numbers but ever actually figure out what the
00:58:47 ◼ ► problem is oh man all right last week we talked about us more safe programming I think what this
00:58:54 ◼ ► was with relation to like the Apple car that may or may not ever happen and Tesla's crazy ambitions
00:59:00 ◼ ► that might not match their quality levels of software indeed inside brought up Ada which was
00:59:07 ◼ ► a programming language that I had thought was used kind of a lot in the defense industry and an
00:59:11 ◼ ► anonymous person wrote in to say well yes actually several anonymous people wrote in one several of
00:59:16 ◼ ► them said yes it is the thing in the defense industry then a different anonymous person said
00:59:19 ◼ ► that most of this kind of development is actually now done using misra see where misra is an acronym
00:59:25 ◼ ► of course which is motor industry software reliability Association and pulling from Wikipedia
00:59:30 ◼ ► apparently mr. C's aim is to facilitate code safety security portability and reliability in
00:59:36 ◼ ► the context of embedded systems which is about what a car is you know or wants to be a car would
00:59:42 ◼ ► like safe code that's secure and portable and reliable and it's going to be run on an embedded
00:59:47 ◼ ► system so yep checks out I gotta make my joke about this now so mr. C is like C but with limitations
00:59:53 ◼ ► there's a bunch of stuff that you aren't allowed to do because they're unsafe so on and so forth
00:59:56 ◼ ► and so it is you know it has fewer features than C like you know for example you can't I think you
01:00:00 ◼ ► can't do function pointers or whatever like it's more provably correct it's easier to understand
01:00:04 ◼ ► and so I can imagine if you're a C program working in it it will make you miserable not to be able to
01:00:10 ◼ ► use all those features oh my god it's right there miss Racy who's naming their thing miserable don't
01:00:15 ◼ ► name your thing miserable see when it's gonna make C programmers miserable it's right there dad jokes
01:00:21 ◼ ► all right as punishment for that dad joke we all now have to live through even more of this stupid
01:00:27 ◼ ► t56 8a versus t56 8b your dad joke is now getting all of us punished so I'm not even helping you on
01:00:34 ◼ ► this this is all you know I so I last week we had a follow-up item that was cut from the show because
01:00:39 ◼ ► it turned out to be follow up for another one of my podcasts but it paired well with this one because
01:00:43 ◼ ► it was about it was it was like it was about like urban myths or sort of anecdotal stories that
01:00:50 ◼ ► people make a leap from a personal experience to a generalized theory right that is definitely the
01:00:56 ◼ ► case in our past discussions of t5 68 a versus B where various people think there's a super important
01:01:01 ◼ ► difference because they did this one thing one time and they changed from a to B and that made
01:01:05 ◼ ► all the difference therefore B is better than a or a is better than B or whatever the case may be
01:01:09 ◼ ► right and for context these are the two different ways you can wire Ethernet jacks or wires with
01:01:15 ◼ ► which color pair you split between the terminals where you split the pair right and the you know
01:01:21 ◼ ► we were misled by articles that said that they were different but then everyone said no they're
01:01:25 ◼ ► electrically identical the only difference is the colors of the insulation and electrons can't see
01:01:30 ◼ ► colors so they're electrically identical right and yet people will continue to insist hey I did a
01:01:36 ◼ ► thing and one time when we changed to be in a made everything better therefore B is better right and
01:01:40 ◼ ► I always ask these people okay but like what's the mechanism like why is it better there should be a
01:01:45 ◼ ► reason not just hey we did a thing and it was better therefore B is better right and John B
01:01:50 ◼ ► wrote in with at least a theory a hypothesis that could be tested all right and the hypothesis you
01:01:59 ◼ ► know based on fact all right so here's John B I've learned the hard way anecdote it begins the pairs
01:02:05 ◼ ► are in fact different the number of twists per inch is different for different pairs and that's
01:02:11 ◼ ► why the B style is commonly used for high-speed links it puts the pairs with more twists in the
01:02:15 ◼ ► right place now I tried to look something say is that true that the each pair of wires has different
01:02:21 ◼ ► number of twists and as far as I can tell yes that actually is true just a part of Ethernet like I
01:02:26 ◼ ► mentioned the twisted pairs are you know two pairs of cables that are twisted around each other and
01:02:29 ◼ ► they vary the number of twists per inch so one pair is twisted like I don't know like two twists
01:02:35 ◼ ► every inch and the other one is two twists every five inches or whatever because varying the number
01:02:39 ◼ ► of twists minimizes crosstalk or something this seems like a type of thing that would be trivial
01:02:44 ◼ ► to confirm by just simply cutting open Ethernet wire and looking at the twist and saying are any
01:02:47 ◼ ► of them twisted more closely more tightly together than other pairs but I just did internet searching
01:02:52 ◼ ► and it seemed seemed like I confirmed that yes this is true but the real question is okay they're
01:02:58 ◼ ► twisted different amounts to avoid crosstalk this last bit it puts the pairs with more twists in the
01:03:05 ◼ ► right place what does that mean is more twists better than more than fewer twists what is the
01:03:10 ◼ ► right place there's no further analysis of this you know like like it is our are they twisted
01:03:17 ◼ ► different amounts is one pair always plays like the green and green and white one always twisted
01:03:22 ◼ ► more than the red and red white one or is it just arbitrary I don't know but here's the here's the
01:03:27 ◼ ► story there's John B story because we got to include the story I was once called to a castle
01:03:32 ◼ ► yes really he says for an Ethernet network they couldn't get out of its own way one contract did
01:03:37 ◼ ► the patch panel in type B and one did plates the wall plates in type a amazingly the Knicks managed
01:03:42 ◼ ► to figure it out but it was slow as anything so for the fun of it we fixed half the castle to type
01:03:46 ◼ ► a and half the type B the bees were faster we redid the A's to B and they got as fast it's real
01:03:52 ◼ ► so there's there's your castle castle based anecdote we changed to be in to fixed everything
01:03:57 ◼ ► I don't doubt that that happened okay that happened and then the reasoning behind it it puts the right
01:04:04 ◼ ► the pairs with more twists in the right place I'm still going with their electrically identical but
01:04:10 ◼ ► at least at least John B came up with a hypothesis as to what might be causing a difference because
01:04:15 ◼ ► apparently there is a physical difference in number of twists for each of the pairs I love I
01:04:21 ◼ ► love that this story is continuing that we still that we've been talking about this for five
01:04:26 ◼ ► episodes again it seems like a thing that's knowable like obviously none of us care enough
01:04:31 ◼ ► about it to cut open one of our ethernet cables or to do any kind of testing but it just seems
01:04:34 ◼ ► like the type of thing that look I think probably if it is real it is so minor that no one cares
01:04:41 ◼ ► about it because if people cared about it like someone with actual you know equipment would like
01:04:46 ◼ ► test it like an electrical engineer would go through and test and just the answer would be
01:04:49 ◼ ► on the internet but apparently if there is any there aren't it's so small that no one even cares
01:04:54 ◼ ► enough to test it so it's left entirely to the realm of people with stories about castles that's
01:04:59 ◼ ► why like I would I would expect if this were true that it had to be this certain way because of these
01:05:05 ◼ ► reasons that these would be so well documented because Ethernet is so widespread and so well
01:05:12 ◼ ► known and so old that like you would think that this would be documented like crazy and it just
01:05:20 ◼ ► seems like no one has any act it's all based on like myths and hearsay which is you know ridiculous
01:05:27 ◼ ► for something that should be eminently knowable we are sponsored this week by Mac Weldon one of
01:05:33 ◼ ► my favorite clothing brands I wear Mac Weldon's clothes every single day after taking a brief
01:05:42 ◼ ► with the new spring essentials for Mac Weldon with body mapping technology and fabric mesh zones Mac
01:05:48 ◼ ► Weldon's new stealth boxer briefs deliver enhanced breathability and support perfect for everyday
01:05:54 ◼ ► wear or to be layered underneath workout gear and for sweatpants you can wear outside without feeling
01:05:59 ◼ ► like you're wearing sweatpants check out Mac Weldon's new ace line this is actually I actually
01:06:03 ◼ ► did this literally today I am right now I am wearing Mac Weldon's ace sweatpants and I did
01:06:09 ◼ ► indeed wear them outside earlier when running lots of errands they these are fantastic and also
01:06:14 ◼ ► wearing Mac Weldon's underwear which I wear literally every single day I have been for years
01:06:19 ◼ ► I'm currently wearing a Mac Weldon t-shirt and I worked out in all this stuff earlier today it's a
01:06:25 ◼ ► wonderful clothing brand they have everything you can imagine for you know basic essentials socks
01:06:30 ◼ ► shirts hoodies underwear polos active shorts all of them are comfortable and they all fit consistently
01:06:35 ◼ ► their fabric is incredibly high quality and they're versatile they look great they feel great so you
01:06:41 ◼ ► can work out in them you can go out in them you can go to work in them Mac Weldon is for everyday
01:06:45 ◼ ► life these fabrics are customized by them they can keep up with you no matter what your day looks
01:06:51 ◼ ► like and they guarantee their products they want you to be comfortable so if you don't like your
01:06:56 ◼ ► first pair of Mac Weldon underwear you can keep them and they will still refund you no questions
01:07:01 ◼ ► asked all this is backed by Weldon blue they're totally free loyalty program level one gets you
01:07:07 ◼ ► free shipping for life once you hit $200 of spending you get level two and that gets you
01:07:12 ◼ ► 20% off every order for the next year so for 20% off your first order visit mac weldon.com slash
01:07:19 ◼ ► ATP podcast and enter promo code ATP podcast that's mac weldon.com slash ATP podcast promo code ATP
01:07:27 ◼ ► podcast for 20% off Mac Weldon reinventing men's basics all right you want to talk about iPhone
01:07:37 ◼ ► rumors sure why not iPhone 13 rumored to include always on display with 120 Hertz promotion astrophotography
01:07:43 ◼ ► capabilities stronger magsafe and more I did not pay too much attention to this because I assumed
01:07:50 ◼ ► it was a bunch of BS that nobody really knows yet but maybe it's not who really knows so what
01:07:56 ◼ ► are the highlights on this did either of you really dig into this I mean it's early in rumor season
01:08:01 ◼ ► right but I think you know it's early it's late enough that there could be some nuggets thrown out
01:08:06 ◼ ► there right I what I wanted to start with we can just go in the order of this headline always on
01:08:11 ◼ ► display for phones right so Apple watch is in its second generation of always on display now with a
01:08:17 ◼ ► brighter display it's obviously a much smaller screen but it's also got a much smaller battery
01:08:21 ◼ ► lots of Android phones have always on displays to varying degrees it's an obvious feature for Apple
01:08:27 ◼ ► to adopt they've been a little bit late to this game it seems plausible to me whether it comes
01:08:31 ◼ ► this year or next year the year after I mostly wanted to talk about it in the context of what
01:08:36 ◼ ► kind of value if any do you think you personally would get from a phone with an always on display
01:08:42 ◼ ► I mean I've seen it on Android phones plenty and it doesn't seem like a bad feature like I don't
01:08:48 ◼ ► think it's it's a bad idea by any stretch of the imagination typically on Android phones that I've
01:08:53 ◼ ► seen it's the the current time and little to nothing else which I don't think is all that
01:08:58 ◼ ► terribly useful especially since on an iPhone you can just tap the screen and it'll wake right up
01:09:02 ◼ ► that being said some of the renders on here include like the current temperature and weather
01:09:08 ◼ ► conditions and like how far you are through your music that you're listening to and how your rings
01:09:20 ◼ ► spirit of what was the windows phones like live tiles or whatever although not nearly as visually
01:09:26 ◼ ► busy I think that is pretty cool and could be very very interesting but it's so hard to say without
01:09:33 ◼ ► having seen any of this if this is useful but it's certainly not the sort of thing that I would you
01:09:38 ◼ ► know thumb my nose at Marco how do you feel I think I'm with you I I don't immediately get
01:09:43 ◼ ► super excited about this but I think it really depends on how you use your phone physically like
01:09:48 ◼ ► where do you hold it where does it sit when you're doing things for me personally I'm not a like
01:09:54 ◼ ► phone out on the table kind of person a long time ago I think it was Scott Simpson who said I
01:10:02 ◼ ► probably in a tweet like years ago something along the lines of like I I know you're a cool person
01:10:09 ◼ ► if when we're out to dinner I never see your phone ever ever ever and that that I kind of
01:10:16 ◼ ► internalized that and I am never I try to never be the person who has my phone out unnecessarily
01:10:23 ◼ ► and I'm not the kind of person who like when I sit down somewhere I like empty my pockets onto
01:10:30 ◼ ► the table in front of me and so because I don't do those things my phone is always either in my
01:10:36 ◼ ► hand being operated in which case the screen is on or it's in my pocket and so this feature I
01:10:44 ◼ ► don't think I would get significant value out of but there are so many people for whom that entire
01:10:52 ◼ ► list of qualification the news patterns is not true where so many people are just like their
01:10:59 ◼ ► phone is like out on the desk face up all the time and so for those people it could then have similar
01:11:04 ◼ ► value as deal with on screen on the Apple watch so I'm not super excited about this honestly but I
01:11:11 ◼ ► think it would be a pretty big deal to a lot of people I thought this feature was interesting kind
01:11:17 ◼ ► of in the same way that all features that that are gated by technology are interesting right it's like
01:11:24 ◼ ► why didn't the phone always haven't always on display well battery right we know why right
01:11:29 ◼ ► screen would take up too much battery having all the time when people aren't looking at it as a
01:11:32 ◼ ► waste of battery we kill your battery life nobody wanted right so old ed screens which have been
01:11:35 ◼ ► iPhones for several generations now don't have that problem because you only kind of pay for
01:11:39 ◼ ► the pixels you're lighting up and if you don't light up a lot of pixels and you can get away
01:11:43 ◼ ► with a lot and the variable refresh rate helps with that too and bigger batteries and more power
01:11:48 ◼ ► efficiency and so finally technology can give us the future that we didn't have but we had all this
01:11:52 ◼ ► time where the feature didn't exist and all that time does a couple things one it kind of cements
01:11:59 ◼ ► in a lot of people's minds the idea that well I haven't had it before and it's not immediately
01:12:04 ◼ ► obvious to me why I would get any value from it then I don't need it it's not a big deal right
01:12:09 ◼ ► and the flip side of that is you know oh now we've got always on display I can think of all these
01:12:14 ◼ ► cool things I can do with it I can show the weather I can give indications of what kind of
01:12:18 ◼ ► things may be available like obviously you can't you probably don't want to show actual messages
01:12:22 ◼ ► and other notifications but you can put little red dots or badges or you know information that
01:12:27 ◼ ► you don't mind that isn't a privacy violation that you would like to see on your phone and being able
01:12:33 ◼ ► to have your phone on your bedside to be kind of like your alarm clock with the time always visible
01:12:36 ◼ ► like there's tons of applications your mind goes wild is like now if I can have an always on display
01:12:40 ◼ ► I have so many great ideas of cool things I could do with that and I think both of those positions
01:12:47 ◼ ► like have a little bit of a lack of imagination obviously the ones of saying well I never needed
01:12:52 ◼ ► it before therefore I can't think of any use for it there's a little bit of a lack of imagination
01:12:55 ◼ ► there because if you have this feature who knows how you might use it who knows what value you might
01:12:59 ◼ ► drive for even Marco might find a reason not to have his phone in his pocket who knows what it
01:13:03 ◼ ► might be right but the other side is and I think people recognize that like oh you're an old fuddy
01:13:07 ◼ ► duddy you just like things the old way embrace the new but the other side is also true that your
01:13:12 ◼ ► mind spins with all these ideas of amazing things you could do and always on display but it's very
01:13:17 ◼ ► easy to lose sight of the fact that having a display that is off when you're not using it
01:13:22 ◼ ► also has benefits now we got those benefits for free by accident because we couldn't afford battery
01:13:28 ◼ ► life wise to keep the screen on but having the screen not be on is absolutely a feature if it's
01:13:35 ◼ ► in a dark room if you don't want to be disturbed by your phone right because it's been the default
01:13:40 ◼ ► we take those benefits for granted but if you were for example to put out a phone with an always on
01:13:46 ◼ ► display that you couldn't switch to not do this that you couldn't say I'll just when I'm not using
01:13:51 ◼ ► the phone be entirely black that would be worse than the current phones in many ways that people
01:13:57 ◼ ► would people would find annoying right so and I'm not saying apples can do this I assume they will
01:14:03 ◼ ► give the option like they do on the watch to not have the always on display but I think it's
01:14:07 ◼ ► important to recognize when the technology comes along to finally give us a thing even when it's a
01:14:11 ◼ ► thing that's an obvious thing like on the watch that you know well you know it's who wants to do
01:14:16 ◼ ► a weird motion with your hand to get the watch invisible everyone wants it always to be on Apple
01:14:20 ◼ ► smart enough to say you know what that's probably true and this is a no-brainer for a watch but
01:14:25 ◼ ► sometimes people want to make a different trade-off you know with battery life so you can turn that
01:14:30 ◼ ► feature off and I'm sure there are some people say you know what when I'm not looking at my watch I
01:14:34 ◼ ► want it to be entirely black because I work in sound behind the stage where all the lights are
01:14:40 ◼ ► off and I don't want something bright flashing who knows everyone has reasons and even more so on a
01:14:44 ◼ ► phone not having anything visible on your phone when you're not using it is actually a feature so
01:14:50 ◼ ► I hope and expect that if an iPhone comes with an always-on display that it is merely an option on
01:14:58 ◼ ► by default sure because it's cool and everything right but that you can turn it off now as for me
01:15:03 ◼ ► personally getting value out of this there are occasions where I will have my phone face up
01:15:09 ◼ ► unlike the end table next to the sofa while I'm watching a TV show or something and occasionally
01:15:15 ◼ ► I will glance at it to see if someone replied to a message that I sent a half an hour ago or
01:15:20 ◼ ► that email finally came in or even just like wonder what the weather is gonna be like or whatever
01:15:25 ◼ ► where I will tap the screen to get that information to see the lock screen or where I'll actually wake
01:15:31 ◼ ► it up right if I could get that information passively in a well-lit room where my phone
01:15:37 ◼ ► is you know on the end table next to the sofa without having me to go over and say hey phone
01:15:42 ◼ ► wake up hey phone wake up and tapping it like that because I do do that I appreciate being
01:15:46 ◼ ► able to tap to wake for this very reason before I had to have to wake I don't think I use my phone
01:15:51 ◼ ► like this once tap to wake became available like it's not that much effort to just reach over the
01:15:55 ◼ ► table and tap the phone because I usually have it face up right if I didn't have to tap it that's
01:16:00 ◼ ► benefit to me and I think I would use this provided I could configure the screen to have the type of
01:16:05 ◼ ► information that I would be interested in the time probably doesn't interest me as much because I got
01:16:10 ◼ ► clocks around the house but you know I would take it so I am cautiously optimistic about the always
01:16:16 ◼ ► on display all right moving right along 120 Hertz promotion in the iPhone because it is in the iPad
01:16:24 ◼ ► has been for like two or three years now more than that it's 120 Hertz has been in the iPad since the
01:16:29 ◼ ► 10.5 inch iPad Pro oh well well however long it's been it's been a while because I remember sitting
01:16:35 ◼ ► in what was that beloved coffee shop that just folded a couple years ago at San Jose oh the slow
01:16:42 ◼ ► service but nice setting oh god yeah social distancing yeah social social distancing social
01:16:50 ◼ ► policy anyways I remember sitting outside there and someone who maybe should remain nameless walked
01:16:55 ◼ ► up with one of them and let us all play with it and I remember thinking oh that's really cool but
01:17:00 ◼ ► to be honest with you you thought I used my iPad a lot to this day I can't say I ever really noticed
01:17:04 ◼ ► the difference or maybe maybe I turned it off for some reason although I don't know why I would have
01:17:09 ◼ ► but I don't notice it day to day and apparently Mike really does and that's fine so I I don't
01:17:15 ◼ ► again like I'm sure this would be nice I'm sure it would be cool but it's not something I feel like
01:17:21 ◼ ► I'm yearning for but ask me again if I have it and I tell you you know the world who knows I mean
01:17:26 ◼ ► when the 10.5 launched I remember I would the the event you're talking about where we were shown one
01:17:32 ◼ ► at social policy I remember very clearly because when you first see 120 Hertz on an iPad it blows
01:17:39 ◼ ► your mind like when you're used to 60 Hertz and then you see 120 or it just it seems almost
01:17:45 ◼ ► unnaturally smooth I know some people even have a problem with it like and that's why there's
01:17:49 ◼ ► there's actually an accessibility option to turn it off to go back to 60 Hertz because some people
01:17:54 ◼ ► are like a little bit weird about the motion with it so it's striking when you said when you see the
01:18:00 ◼ ► difference that being said I thought like when I first saw that and then when I when I soon
01:18:05 ◼ ► afterwards got my own 10.5 iPad Pro I thought oh no this is gonna ruin my phone and my computers
01:18:12 ◼ ► and all other displays that I use that are only 60 Hertz but that didn't happen like instead like
01:18:17 ◼ ► I I love the way it looks and feels in the iPad but as I switch between the iPad and the iPhone
01:18:22 ◼ ► that doesn't have it I don't notice that so I'm sure the same like I'm sure it would be great if
01:18:29 ◼ ► they could do it on the phone I'm not saying they shouldn't but I'm not super excited about it the
01:18:35 ◼ ► way everyone else seems to be because now that I have devices with both I see like wow this is
01:18:40 ◼ ► really cool when I have it but when I don't have it I don't notice yeah yeah I think that's well
01:18:46 ◼ ► put yeah speaking of this is kind of like the the Ethernet thing where there's lots of you know
01:18:51 ◼ ► myths and legends surrounding this with a little bit more science so the the realm I'm thinking of
01:18:58 ◼ ► when looking at these rumors is video games right there's been debates about video game frame rates
01:19:03 ◼ ► forever in the beginning it was simple higher frame rates are better eventually technology
01:19:09 ◼ ► advanced to the point where we could get very very high frame rates and then the debate began
01:19:13 ◼ ► what is the point of diminishing returns can you tell there's between 30 frames per second and 60
01:19:19 ◼ ► everyone pretty much agrees yes anyone can tell can you tell the difference between 60 and 120
01:19:23 ◼ ► between 120 and 240 right where what at what point is it not possible for you personally or
01:19:30 ◼ ► people in general to actually notice the difference what is the point of diminishing returns and you
01:19:37 ◼ ► would think this is an open-and-shut case that could be measured and tested it is extensively
01:19:41 ◼ ► measured and tested and yet gamers are gonna be gamers and they still argue with each other about
01:19:45 ◼ ► it because there are many nuances involved here plus is also latency and response time and a bunch
01:19:50 ◼ ► of other stuff that's mostly not related to this but on the in the context of the iPhone I think
01:19:55 ◼ ► this is very much like the other other technologies that deal with human perception right and in
01:20:05 ◼ ► general we've talked about this in the past with music we've talked about it with with displays
01:20:09 ◼ ► technology is going to advance to the point where further advancement is wasted on our senses right
01:20:17 ◼ ► so retina displays they may not be at the limit but they're close right the whole point of retina
01:20:22 ◼ ► is like oh you can't discern the individual pixels well if you have really good eyesight you can still
01:20:25 ◼ ► kind of see them and if your phone is real close to your face you can still kind of see them but
01:20:28 ◼ ► we're definitely near the knee in that curve of like you know another doubling or tripling of
01:20:35 ◼ ► dots per inch on our phones is really diminishing returns at this point right like people won't be
01:20:42 ◼ ► able to see that difference arguably for the distances most people have their TVs 8k could
01:20:47 ◼ ► be near than the knee in that curve maybe even you know 16k put this way 16k televisions in video for
01:20:54 ◼ ► typical television sizes that we have today and distance we sit from them is the point of
01:20:58 ◼ ► diminishing returns right and I think it's the same deal with frame rate obviously technical
01:21:05 ◼ ► limitations keep us from having really high frame rates plus there's also a battery life issue but
01:21:08 ◼ ► as those dominoes fall it becomes possible to have higher frame rates the question becomes at what
01:21:12 ◼ ► point do we not bother any adding any more frames per second because nobody can tell the difference
01:21:17 ◼ ► 30 60 we can all tell I thought I've yet to meet someone who can't tell the difference between 30
01:21:24 ◼ ► frames per second and 60 just to give a round number right 60 and 120 I think you will start
01:21:30 ◼ ► to find people who can't tell between 60 and 120 even though Marco could definitely tell some people
01:21:35 ◼ ► are less sensitive than others 120 to 200 120 to 240 you will find way more people who cannot tell
01:21:42 ◼ ► the difference between these two things again potentially like you know the the sampling rate
01:21:48 ◼ ► of input is not necessarily tied to the frame rate so the Apple pencil is sampled at 240 Hertz
01:21:53 ◼ ► but the display is 120 right so there are certain applications where you know the various things that
01:21:59 ◼ ► have to do with how often is the input red and how soon is that input reflected on the screen that's
01:22:05 ◼ ► actually somewhat independent of the frame rate Apple pencil could definitely get way more
01:22:10 ◼ ► responsive and there's that video that I linked to my blog way back when of a demo display showing
01:22:15 ◼ ► latencies between input and the reflection of that input going from you know 100 milliseconds to 10
01:22:20 ◼ ► milliseconds to 1 millisecond and it is startling and we still we're not close to the point of
01:22:26 ◼ ► diminishing returns for for example tracking the tip of your Apple pencil but that is mostly
01:22:31 ◼ ► independent of how often does the screen update if the input was red and correctly tracked by the
01:22:37 ◼ ► computer with one millisecond of latency even if the display only updated 120 times a second it
01:22:44 ◼ ► would eventually update to reflect the line that you expected to be there as opposed to now where
01:22:51 ◼ ► it eventually updates to reflect a line that lags a little bit behind where you thought you brought
01:22:55 ◼ ► the pencil right so those are all mostly independent but for things like scrolling I think
01:23:00 ◼ ► 120 Hertz will put us over the line in terms of smoothness for most people the majority of people
01:23:10 ◼ ► they're like going to 200 frames per second or 240 at least more than half the population will
01:23:16 ◼ ► not know the difference from 120 to that new thing but I think 60 is a little bit under people's
01:23:23 ◼ ► perception limits so I think we will spend a long time at 120 and I think that is a reasonable place
01:23:29 ◼ ► to hang out for a while and then we can concentrate on input lag latency latency of reading you know
01:23:35 ◼ ► your touches and the Apple pencil and all that other stuff while maintaining 120 Hertz and also
01:23:42 ◼ ► remember with variable refresh part of the reason we can do this without killing the battery is
01:23:47 ◼ ► variable refresh allows us not to just repeatedly update the same image 120 times a second and burn
01:23:53 ◼ ► your battery when the image isn't changing so that technology I mean again it's from the iPad and
01:23:59 ◼ ► it's you know it's widespread everywhere is what makes us possible and I think is the real important
01:24:04 ◼ ► feature for all these high frame rate things so I am I endorse 120 Hertz like Marco like I my wife
01:24:12 ◼ ► has an iPad that has it right I see it there I appreciate it I don't miss it I play video
01:24:18 ◼ ► games at 60 frames per second now in destiny where it used to be 30 and that is wonderful I would
01:24:23 ◼ ► like 120 even more so you know obviously using your iPhone and scrolling with your thumb is not
01:24:29 ◼ ► the same thing as playing a first-person shooter in a video game but I can tell you just you know
01:24:34 ◼ ► the difference of the application I would love 120 Hertz and destiny I would like it on my phone
01:24:39 ◼ ► that's fair all right moving right along astrophotography capabilities so I must I honestly
01:24:50 ◼ ► don't know I'm assuming this means taking pictures of the night sky and that's gonna get better yeah
01:24:55 ◼ ► do we have any other information on what that cuz like typically the needs of astrophotography are
01:24:59 ◼ ► typically about taking long exposures so that you can capture useful images at night but not so long
01:25:09 ◼ ► or somehow compensating that it becomes a problem that the stars are moving fairly quickly in the
01:25:17 ◼ ► context of a long exposure so like if you take a long exposure you know particularly a minute
01:25:21 ◼ ► two minutes long exposure if you're at high enough resolution the stars that you're shooting will
01:25:26 ◼ ► have moved enough that it might cause a very small streak on each star during that exposure time or
01:25:32 ◼ ► you know whatever the times are so typically that's what you would need for astrophotography
01:25:36 ◼ ► is like some way to compensate for that so you know maybe just making really short exposures
01:25:41 ◼ ► that somehow get enough light to make it work I don't know so I'm curious what this is referring
01:25:48 ◼ ► to well we don't have much but it says in this Mac rumors article the mode will allow the phone
01:25:53 ◼ ► to detect different artifacts such as the moon and stars and adjust settings such as exposure
01:25:57 ◼ ► accordingly which doesn't necessarily fix what you're talking yeah that sounds like it's just
01:26:02 ◼ ► like you know better photo processing for a certain subject matter which is fine like that's
01:26:06 ◼ ► a huge part of what makes the cameras on the iPhone so good but that's it's certainly not
01:26:12 ◼ ► a headlaying feature yeah I mean I feel like it's probably making up for a weak area like it sounds
01:26:16 ◼ ► to me like basic machine learning the camera recognizes that what you're taking a picture
01:26:20 ◼ ► of is the night sky and it recognizes that through machine learning and then applies a custom set of
01:26:26 ◼ ► image processing that understands hey I know image processor you might see these little pin
01:26:31 ◼ ► pricks of light don't freak out it's not noise like those are stars you know what a star looks
01:26:35 ◼ ► like enhance and double down on the stars instead of treating it as noise and trying to smooth it
01:26:40 ◼ ► over and you know so it recognized that that is the moon and recognize that you're gonna do an
01:26:45 ◼ ► HDR exposure and what the moon is supposed to look it's like machine learning of like understanding
01:26:49 ◼ ► that you are taking a picture of the night sky because the night sky is not that varied
01:26:53 ◼ ► there's the moon there's stars maybe there's clouds and that's about it right so you know
01:26:59 ◼ ► what's gonna be there and you can make lots of custom machine learning stuff I don't think this
01:27:03 ◼ ► is what Marco was talking about which is like leave the shutter open for three hours and get
01:27:07 ◼ ► a cool swirly pattern of the stars I don't think that's what this is about third-party apps could
01:27:11 ◼ ► surely do that and probably do that now it's probably just about one more thing that your
01:27:16 ◼ ► camera kind of understands what you're taking a picture of and can do a decent job of it because
01:27:20 ◼ ► I can imagine night sky pictures are probably the type of things that people with iPhones take
01:27:24 ◼ ► because they're out at night and they see a pretty sky I want to take a picture of it and then they're
01:27:27 ◼ ► disappointed with the results because all the phones sort of default image processing work
01:27:32 ◼ ► against the idea of a completely dark background with pinpricks of light we are sponsored this week
01:27:39 ◼ ► by flat file nearly everyone has dealt with formatting CSV or Excel files so the data can
01:27:45 ◼ ► be correctly imported into an application it's a pain companies of all sizes spend an exorbitant
01:27:51 ◼ ► amount of effort trying to fix this problem typical solutions might include using CSV templates
01:27:56 ◼ ► emailing Excel files back and forth or hiring expensive implementations teams our friends at
01:28:03 ◼ ► flat file are working on concierge which offers no code collaborative workspaces for onboarding data
01:28:10 ◼ ► invite your customers to securely import format or merge their spreadsheet data no more fumbling
01:28:16 ◼ ► with FTP uploads emailing sensitive Excel files back and forth or formatting yet another CSV
01:28:22 ◼ ► template flat files on a mission to help companies spend less time formatting spreadsheet data and
01:28:28 ◼ ► more time using it if you're curious to see how they can help your business visit flat file dot
01:28:34 ◼ ► IO that's flat file dot IO thank you so much to flat file for sponsoring our show I continuing on
01:28:44 ◼ ► stronger mag safe I have yet to use any mag safe anything so I don't really know how strong or
01:28:52 ◼ ► not strong it is now I've heard it's not as strong as people expected but I don't know do you guys
01:28:56 ◼ ► have more input on this yeah I use mag safe all the time because our bedside cable solution is
01:29:03 ◼ ► mag safe and I I must admit even though it's only you know I mean the iPhone 12 series is still
01:29:12 ◼ ► fairly new but I am quite disappointed in how little mag safe stuff there is so far I assume
01:29:20 ◼ ► there's a good reason maybe this is the reason maybe the reason is like a lot of stuff was just
01:29:24 ◼ ► it was too hard to make it and to make it good with the existing mag safe magnet strength I don't
01:29:28 ◼ ► know but just using like Apple stuff which is like my my solution it's very low-tech is I just have
01:29:37 ◼ ► the mag safe cable and I have the Apple watch cable and I have stuck to the bottom that that
01:29:44 ◼ ► adhesive that's like the micro suction cups you know what I'm talking about like certain some
01:29:48 ◼ ► things have those I bought a sheet of that on Amazon and so I cut out little like discs of it
01:29:53 ◼ ► to stick on the bottom so I have the Apple watch charger and then a few inches away I have the
01:29:58 ◼ ► phone mag safe charger and those are just you know suction cups stuck to the desk with that special
01:30:03 ◼ ► tape so they just they just sit like flat on the nightstand so I've basically made my own unmovable
01:30:08 ◼ ► Apple dock which is great it's I like it better than any of the doc I've ever used because both
01:30:16 ◼ ► things there they stay fixed in place you can pick up each device with one hand because the things
01:30:20 ◼ ► are like you know sucked onto the table so it's great but that being said the issue with mag safe
01:30:28 ◼ ► that I have is that even with the mini which I think is the easiest phone to align a mag safe
01:30:33 ◼ ► because the mag safe disc itself is not that much narrower than the mini so like you have less kind
01:30:40 ◼ ► of slop in one direction to deal with but even with mag safe it's kind of hard to align the phone
01:30:48 ◼ ► correctly because the magnets don't pull it so hard to the correct alignment as you'd expect it
01:30:54 ◼ ► to it is kind of difficult like I have to kind of wiggle it around sometimes and sometimes I have it
01:31:00 ◼ ► in a way that it does feel like it's stuck on but it's like it's like an off by one error with
01:31:05 ◼ ► the mag in alignment or something it's like it's slightly off and so it's so it doesn't charge and
01:31:08 ◼ ► I have to like move it over until it makes a little like funk ding sound when it's charging
01:31:12 ◼ ► current mag safe I love the concept the execution has been a little I don't know a little disappointing
01:31:21 ◼ ► I think I still like it better than like unmagnetized Qi charging because it does solve the
01:31:27 ◼ ► alignment most of the time much of the time whereas you know unmodified Qi charger solve the alignment
01:31:32 ◼ ► problem none of the time so it's nicer than that but it could be made better and I think one of
01:31:38 ◼ ► the ways it could be made better would be strong magnets I think that would also greatly improve
01:31:42 ◼ ► things like car mounts where right now the current mag safe is not I don't think not strong and I
01:31:48 ◼ ► haven't actually tried this I've thought about it not quite strong enough that you could just like
01:31:51 ◼ ► stick a mag safe disk to some part of your car and stick your phone on it and expect it to stay
01:31:56 ◼ ► there but if the magnets were made stronger that might be possible so I can see this being plausible
01:32:02 ◼ ► and welcome John any thoughts yeah I have a mag safe puck the only thing I use it for is to charge
01:32:09 ◼ ► my air pods which don't magnetically align to it really in any way intentionally the kind of John
01:32:16 ◼ ► thing I've ever heard so they kind of did like I don't know if you've tried this but that I have
01:32:20 ◼ ► the second generation air pods and the non pro ones air pods do have little magnets in them to
01:32:26 ◼ ► you know to pull the air pods in and there is some interaction between those magnets in the puck but
01:32:32 ◼ ► it's not it's not like it's an intentional interaction I don't think my air pod case was
01:32:35 ◼ ► designed with that puck in mind because it's just it predates it by so many years but they do kind
01:32:40 ◼ ► of align but anyway my phone has mag safe and when I first got it I got the puck with it and I tried
01:32:46 ◼ ► it and I didn't like it I didn't like it for a bunch of reasons that have little to do with the
01:32:52 ◼ ► feature being bad I think it's great for you know like Margo said it's better than not magnets
01:32:56 ◼ ► because then you got to align the thing yourself and you're worried about everything charged right
01:33:00 ◼ ► and there's some complaints about the puck switch marker solved by sticking it to the surface or
01:33:03 ◼ ► whatever but anyway like in general a good idea but you know I in my context my fuddy-duddy context
01:33:11 ◼ ► I have readily available cables to plug in and if given the choice like the extra convenience of
01:33:17 ◼ ► putting it on the mag safe thing didn't outweigh my own you know weird paranoia about slower charging
01:33:24 ◼ ► extra heat build up all that stuff and also to be honest this is probably the biggest one marks in
01:33:30 ◼ ► the back of my case right little little circular marks and indentations you know it's whatever
01:33:35 ◼ ► that's just me right it doesn't mean it's a bad feature right but the real thing that makes me
01:33:39 ◼ ► worry about mag safe and especially these rumors of stronger magnets is the fact that my phone has
01:33:45 ◼ ► magnets in the back of it now now I have a case on it that is not a quote-unquote mag safe case
01:33:51 ◼ ► that somehow conveys the magnetic strength through either by having their own magnets you know a line
01:33:56 ◼ ► the same way as the regular mags or whatever like my case is just has no magnets in it whatsoever so
01:34:01 ◼ ► it provides a gap between the magnets that are inside my phone and the outside world it's kind
01:34:07 ◼ ► of also one of the reasons why I didn't want one of the Apple cases because they do have the little
01:34:11 ◼ ► magnet rings thing whose sole purpose is to make it so that the strength of your magnet is not as
01:34:17 ◼ ► diminished by the fact that you have a case on it but I put as we've discussed in past shows I put
01:34:21 ◼ ► my phone in my right pocket of my jacket with my wallet that's filled with credit cards that have
01:34:26 ◼ ► mag stripes now I know mag stripes are prehistoric and everyone has the tap cards now and everyone
01:34:31 ◼ ► has the chip cards now and who cares about the mag stripe but again worrying me worrying about
01:34:35 ◼ ► the marks on the back of my phone I'm also kind of worried about even stronger magnets in the back
01:34:40 ◼ ► of my phone being next to my wallet in my pocket there's probably enough gap there with the case
01:34:45 ◼ ► and the leather of my wallet and all the other stuff that it's not a big deal and and yeah who
01:34:49 ◼ ► knows whenever I use my mag stripes but having powerful magnets on the back of your phone is
01:34:53 ◼ ► not the type of thing that you can get rid of because they're embedded in the phone you can't
01:34:57 ◼ ► turn them off they're not electromagnets they're like permanent magnets right and you know there
01:35:03 ◼ ► were some articles going around about how Apple recommends that you not put like your phone in
01:35:07 ◼ ► your breast pocket if you have a pacemaker right now to some degree people with pacemakers and other
01:35:12 ◼ ► medical devices that are sensitive magnetic fields have to be aware that there are many products in
01:35:16 ◼ ► the world that could potentially have powerful magnets in them that are a danger to them so
01:35:19 ◼ ► it's not like Apple is doing anything necessarily wrong by doing this and putting magnets in them
01:35:23 ◼ ► for the convenience of most people because the people who have you know medical devices that
01:35:29 ◼ ► are sensitive magnets just have to be aware of that but I think a non-optional increasingly
01:35:36 ◼ ► powerful permanent magnet in the back of my phone is not something that I think pays for its
01:35:43 ◼ ► convenience right so I get that there's an alignment issue with wireless charging I would
01:35:49 ◼ ► prefer a solution that either mechanical alignment which is the thing that you can do you can have
01:35:55 ◼ ► things aligned by having a little notch or a nubbin or other sorts of things right that's I
01:36:00 ◼ ► know it's not as elegant but it can be done right or a you know a non fire inducing air power type
01:36:08 ◼ ► thing which is like hey but just don't worry about it just chuck your phone on the thing and however
01:36:11 ◼ ► it's aligned we will magically figure it out under the covers to make sure we charge it in as fast as
01:36:16 ◼ ► possible way given the alignment and so on and so forth we don't have to be one of those things so
01:36:20 ◼ ► magnets may be the best bet right but due to the unique nature of the phone or not unique but the
01:36:25 ◼ ► the special nature of the phone it is unlike for example mag safe on a laptop because most people
01:36:30 ◼ ► are not holding the magnetic parts of either part of their laptop or the charger up to their body
01:36:36 ◼ ► but phones go in your pockets right next to your body all the time next to other things in your
01:36:40 ◼ ► pockets unlike things like your AirPods case your laptop all the other the scenarios in real life
01:36:47 ◼ ► like my faucet has like a little thing that you pull out of it to you know that you can just pull
01:36:51 ◼ ► the end of the faucet out and it's got the long hose so you can spray in different places that
01:36:55 ◼ ► goes back in with a little magnet there are many applications where magnets for alignment is a
01:36:59 ◼ ► great idea but for a rectangular thing that I stick in the pockets of all of my clothes I'm not
01:37:05 ◼ ► super enthusiastic about them making those magnets more powerful now I agree that the current set of
01:37:09 ◼ ► magnets are a little bit wimpy and seem not to give all the benefits you'd want them to have but
01:37:13 ◼ ► I don't know if the solution is stronger magnets so I'm kind of hoping this rumor is bogus or if
01:37:18 ◼ ► they're stronger they'll be stronger by such a small degree that no one will even notice but not
01:37:24 ◼ ► looking forward to this all right anything else finer matte finish on the back that sounds good
01:37:32 ◼ ► no that's that could be huge I mean well I'll believe it when I see yeah we we talk a lot on
01:37:38 ◼ ► podcasts every year about the details of the iPhone surface treatments both visually and how
01:37:46 ◼ ► they you know how grippy they are how easy they ought to hold and everything and this is largely
01:37:51 ◼ ► an academic discussion because effectively nobody doesn't use a case like I so I haven't music a
01:37:59 ◼ ► case in my mini and it's it's almost weird that I don't and whenever anybody learns this fact
01:38:06 ◼ ► they're like what like and when I look around in the world and I try to take notice how many phones
01:38:18 ◼ ► I see without a case granted you know I haven't been seeing as many people as you would in a
01:38:24 ◼ ► normal year but it's basically zero it's as close as you can get to zero like especially as I
01:38:31 ◼ ► haven't seen John Gruber yet this year so that that would at least make it one but you know it's
01:38:35 ◼ ► basically zero people that don't have a case except me and so this kind of thing probably
01:38:43 ◼ ► doesn't matter however the current line of pro phones I think made grip ability significantly
01:38:52 ◼ ► worse we all thought that like the the new flat sided design and everything would be a huge
01:38:58 ◼ ► improvement for handhold ability and I think on the pro line it largely hasn't been now on the on
01:39:05 ◼ ► the non pro line the because the aluminum is textured instead of like that that polished
01:39:11 ◼ ► steel and because the glass has it's like it's like a kind of a flat glass back so it's kind of
01:39:17 ◼ ► tacky as opposed to the like kind of sandblasted glass back that the pros have the pros actually
01:39:23 ◼ ► again I think they got less handhold handhold able this generation and so if you care about
01:39:28 ◼ ► nice handhold ability the non pro phones this year are the way to go and I think it must
01:39:35 ◼ ► bother Apple that anything about the non pro phones is significantly better than the pro
01:39:41 ◼ ► phones like I think they want it to be a pretty clear distinction the approach phones should be
01:39:44 ◼ ► better in every way so to have something go the other direction would probably irritate them in
01:39:49 ◼ ► addition some of the people who I've seen not use cases are Apple executives as you said so so like
01:39:56 ◼ ► you know probably they want to correct this they probably want to they probably want the pro phones
01:40:03 ◼ ► to both look the best feel the best and be the best and so I would expect for feeling the best
01:40:11 ◼ ► that kind of matte texture on the back would be or some kind of change to the texture on the back
01:40:15 ◼ ► would have a chance of being a very good thing and I would also hope that they get rid of this
01:40:22 ◼ ► super highly polished stainless steel case band design on the pros because that does not look the
01:40:32 ◼ ► most people put cases on their phones and so most people never even see or touch the actual raw
01:40:37 ◼ ► sides or back of their phones I like the steel the shiny steel I know people complain about
01:40:42 ◼ ► fingerprints but like you're going to touch it it's going to have fingerprints even with fingerprints
01:40:45 ◼ ► I think it looks nicer and more importantly it feels nicer like I use my phone without a case
01:40:48 ◼ ► for what a whole day or two before or whatever I tried to use it for a while without the case
01:40:53 ◼ ► and it feels like a really nice object but I agree with Marco and everybody else that the non-pro
01:40:59 ◼ ► phone actually has better grip ability and it's interesting because the non-pro phone's back grip
01:41:03 ◼ ► ability is because it is it's perceived as being grippier because it actually is glossy on the back
01:41:09 ◼ ► right the matte one feels slipperier in the vein of what was the slipperiest one the iphone 6
01:41:14 ◼ ► that was like yeah the one that was made of a bar of soap yeah you know so like that when you have
01:41:20 ◼ ► very glossy glass it's very slippery very very grippy right up to the point where you have a
01:41:27 ◼ ► dollop of moisture and then it becomes slick as anything right so I think we perceive the
01:41:33 ◼ ► non-pro phone as being grippier because we're gripping it with essentially dry hands but in
01:41:38 ◼ ► real life maybe if you got a little bit of water on your hand and tried to grab your phone with a
01:41:42 ◼ ► slick glass back maybe it would be different but either way this rumor is that they're changing
01:41:48 ◼ ► the back the matte back with a grippier more comfortable feeling so it sounds like they're
01:41:52 ◼ ► sticking with matte like the current pro has a matte glass back as in it's like it looks like
01:41:57 ◼ ► frosted glass right and that feels slipperier to us because it's very finely textured frosted glass
01:42:03 ◼ ► and it's kind of like the back of like the iphone 6 was where it was like a matte kind of aluminum
01:42:07 ◼ ► thing it feels slippery because it's not like the glossy glass that is grippy you know where you get
01:42:13 ◼ ► that squeaky sound where it's like oh I can really grip on this right but it's also not fuzzy like a
01:42:19 ◼ ► leather case where you actually get real grip on it it's the worst of both worlds so this rumor is
01:42:23 ◼ ► that they have improved the matte back to be grippier than it was I don't know what that means
01:42:29 ◼ ► I don't know you how you can make it matte but even grippier does that mean makes that make the
01:42:33 ◼ ► texture less fine so if you looked at under a microscope the you know the matte-ness would be
01:42:38 ◼ ► higher hills and valleys does it mean they would actually here's the thing naked robotic core is my
01:42:43 ◼ ► whole deal been talking about it for years right apple continues to not do the obvious other
01:42:50 ◼ ► solution which is make your naked robotic core really grippy by not making it out of quote unquote
01:42:57 ◼ ► premium materials by putting wear surfaces on the naked robotic core they've never done that they've
01:43:02 ◼ ► stuck with the naked robotic core which is here is as small as we can make this phone all the
01:43:06 ◼ ► surfaces are hard put a soft case on it express yourself make it grippy do whatever you want
01:43:11 ◼ ► but if we actually put essentially wear surfaces on the outside of the phone people might like it
01:43:19 ◼ ► but then they will wear them out and that's your actual phone you can't remove it when someone
01:43:23 ◼ ► destroys their case or wears it out they take it off and they get a new case right if the back of
01:43:28 ◼ ► the phone like my stupid Microsoft mouse was made of soft touch rubber once you destroyed the back
01:43:34 ◼ ► of your soft rubber phone it would be like oh my phone is all gross now and I can't take it off
01:43:39 ◼ ► because it's part of the phone right so I don't fault apple for not taking this approach they are
01:43:44 ◼ ► very committed to naked robotic core I think it's the right approach because like Marco said
01:43:49 ◼ ► so many the vast majority of people just put a case on it in which case they are benefiting from
01:43:55 ◼ ► naked robotic core which is make the phone as small and beautiful as you can get it and then
01:43:59 ◼ ► you have the option to put whatever cases on you want and if you're a weirder like Gruber and
01:44:02 ◼ ► apple executive or Marco now and you want to use without a case guess what you got the smallest
01:44:06 ◼ ► one possible with really premium surfaces that don't wear out like my stupid Microsoft mouse
01:44:11 ◼ ► and everyone's happy right but I continue to think about maybe one model of phone that is a little
01:44:19 ◼ ► bit chunkier that has actual I'm calling them wear surfaces and it's derogatory way of saying they
01:44:24 ◼ ► eventually wear down but if it has surfaces on them that are not hard durable materials
01:44:28 ◼ ► but instead are designed to be grippy and it's weird because I think that phone would get the
01:44:34 ◼ ► reputation as the grippy phone which makes no sense because every phone is the grippy phone
01:44:39 ◼ ► if you just buy one and put a super grippy case on it you've got a grippy phone but it's like yeah
01:44:43 ◼ ► but you buy this one whatever model this is the the iphone 15 you know pro rugged edition I don't
01:44:50 ◼ ► know someone can come on the fly with some sort of branding name for this whatever that the actual
01:44:55 ◼ ► phone itself is like like a Makita power tool it has like plastic and rubber all over it and like
01:45:01 ◼ ► it is just a grippy thing or whatever you know maybe not go that low end but like something a
01:45:07 ◼ ► premium feeling actual grippy material that the phone is made out of what about like that like
01:45:13 ◼ ► the iphone 5c plastic that felt great yeah the iphone 3g and 3gs also plastic also felt great
01:45:19 ◼ ► very shiny plastic but I'm thinking more of like like devices like I think of power tools because
01:45:24 ◼ ► very often they are made to be to have positive grip and to also be durable you don't want the
01:45:30 ◼ ► handle of your power drill to wear out but you also don't want it to be made of glossy plastic
01:45:35 ◼ ► yeah fair enough but like yeah I mean one of the huge benefit to this is that compared to the phone
01:45:40 ◼ ► that has metal and glass on it that you're putting plastic on top of the phone that actually is made
01:45:45 ◼ ► of plastic to begin with would be significantly smaller and lighter weight because metal and glass
01:45:52 ◼ ► are heavy and you know you would be replacing some of that frame there would have to be some
01:45:58 ◼ ► kind of structural you know probably interior metal frame for some part of it for for support
01:46:02 ◼ ► or rigidity or whatever but you know you would you would result the resulting product would be
01:46:06 ◼ ► significantly smaller and lighter and simpler than a metal and glass phone with a plastic case added
01:46:12 ◼ ► to it aftermarket yeah the tricky part is the screen still because I mean OLED screens are
01:46:18 ◼ ► flexible you can roll them up right but the the glass surface of the phones is part of the
01:46:24 ◼ ► experience of using an iphone like it's part of the reason the original iphone they ditched the
01:46:27 ◼ ► plastic one with glass because running your finger across the plastic screen is not great and we're
01:46:33 ◼ ► not what kind of plastic they make it out of glass just feels better and glass unfortunately is not
01:46:38 ◼ ► super enthusiastic about bending a lot so plastic I think is a great idea for a phone you mentioned
01:46:44 ◼ ► having a metal frame for rigidity part of the reason it needs that rigidity is the glass part
01:46:48 ◼ ► of the reason of course is the printed circuit board which also kind of doesn't like to be bent
01:46:52 ◼ ► but yeah plastic could go along setting aside the grippiness plastic could go a long way towards
01:46:57 ◼ ► reducing weight and increasing durability of phones but apple feels shy about that because
01:47:01 ◼ ► people didn't like the iphone 5c I thought it was great I still think the iphone 5c is a great phone
01:47:09 ◼ ► that like oh we shouldn't make a plastic phone in reality just the price and features of the 5c
01:47:14 ◼ ► given the line that was around it was not right so I think there's two separate things one
01:47:28 ◼ ► make a ruggedized phone that comes out of the box as a beefier bigger battery more grippy with what
01:47:35 ◼ ► I keep calling wear surfaces all over the thing but those are extremely diversified models I feel
01:47:46 ◼ ► I'm not sure apple has an appetite to go into the more exotic realms I feel like that is more the
01:47:52 ◼ ► domain of android phones where there's more variability because apple does have a brand and
01:47:56 ◼ ► I think with the current phone lineup they're covering so many bases if you want a small phone
01:48:03 ◼ ► that's good they sell one if you want a gigantic phone that's good to sell one if you want a
01:48:06 ◼ ► quote-unquote normal-sized phone that's good they sell a couple they've pretty much covered the
01:48:10 ◼ ► market as well as they need to given current phone technology so I don't expect them to do either one
01:48:15 ◼ ► of these things and I don't you know think I couldn't even make a strong pitch for it but it
01:48:19 ◼ ► would certainly be cool mostly because it's a thing they haven't tried yet because everyone
01:48:23 ◼ ► uses the case and naked robotic core has served them so well they haven't even looked at that
01:48:27 ◼ ► other thing I just think it would be a fun a fun variation now all that said this rumor about oh
01:48:32 ◼ ► a matte back that's grippier I think it's going to be one of those things where if they mentioned it
01:48:36 ◼ ► at all it'll be like oh we improved the matte back so it's a little bit grippier and none of us will
01:48:40 ◼ ► be able to tell yeah by the way while you're on the subject of the variability of the lineup
01:48:46 ◼ ► all these rumors that the iPhone mini is like not selling at all and they're going to discontinue it
01:48:51 ◼ ► boy I hope that's wrong because I love the iPhone mini still I'm I'm a big fan the size feels
01:48:56 ◼ ► totally normal to me now every other phone feels like a giant monster phone to me now like it it's
01:49:01 ◼ ► so nice and small and light and it fits nicely in my pocket and I never get that feeling when like I
01:49:07 ◼ ► sit down and like whenever I've like tried a plus phone here and there like you sit down and it's
01:49:12 ◼ ► like a line so they're wrong in your pocket you gotta like shift around or move it over like
01:49:16 ◼ ► I've never had that happen with the mini it's just delightful I'm so happy with it and I really really
01:49:21 ◼ ► hope they continue to make flagship small phones I can't remember if I said this on Twitter or here
01:49:28 ◼ ► or both but like the idea that Apple would bail on the mini because it sells less of course it
01:49:35 ◼ ► sells less you're that's what diversifying the line means you have the sort of the the mainstream
01:49:40 ◼ ► phones that most people buy and when you make the weirder models fewer people are going to buy them
01:49:45 ◼ ► that's the whole point of diversifying your line is you want to address smaller and smaller subsets
01:49:49 ◼ ► of the market you do it after you satisfied the fat part of the bell curve then you go after the
01:49:54 ◼ ► edges and yeah you introduce a little phone fewer people are going to buy it now it could be oh well
01:49:59 ◼ ► it's not that it's fewer it's fewer than we even thought it would be it's fewer than projections
01:50:03 ◼ ► and kind of like the stock marketing business very often you make some wild ass guess about how many
01:50:07 ◼ ► you're going to sell and if you don't meet that expectation it's worse than if you had sold the
01:50:12 ◼ ► exact same number of phones but had predicted a lower number and exceeded it which doesn't make
01:50:16 ◼ ► any sense but that's just human nature so but as with so many of these things yeah apple you're
01:50:20 ◼ ► going to sell fewer of them stick to it because if you like if it's not like if you didn't sell like
01:50:25 ◼ ► half a percent of what you thought just keep doing it because honestly the you know the
01:50:31 ◼ ► technological investment like what did I talk about that before like star wars disney bailing
01:50:37 ◼ ► on star wars after they had some trouble with the the franchise part of what makes people you know
01:50:43 ◼ ► know and trust your brand is you not immediately running at the first sign of trouble in a product
01:50:47 ◼ ► line you know the people who love the mini really love it you may be disappointed that there aren't
01:50:52 ◼ ► more of them and that it costs you so much money to get this whole other production line up and
01:50:55 ◼ ► running but honestly you should just eat that because having extremely loyal mini customers
01:51:02 ◼ ► in your camp and having them give you 37 margins on their purchase instead of 38.5 percent margins
01:51:10 ◼ ► just make the bean counter swallow it and keep making the mini honestly like it's not this
01:51:14 ◼ ► terrible disaster where apple's losing money they got they make so much money they don't even know
01:51:17 ◼ ► what to do with it they can't give away their cash fast enough keep making the mini for crying out
01:51:21 ◼ ► loud thanks to our sponsors this week mack weldon linode and flat file and thank you to our members
01:52:02 ◼ ► and if you're into twitter you can follow them at c a s e y l i s s so that's casey list m a r c o
01:52:41 ◼ ► i got myself a dgi mini 2 drone oh nice those are those look so fun oh it is so much fun i
01:52:49 ◼ ► know not what i'm doing and one of the scary things about the mini is that it doesn't have
01:52:53 ◼ ► the accident avoidance that yours does marco like it doesn't have forward and rear sensors to prevent
01:52:58 ◼ ► it from running into things oh man though it's so much fun and it's so sweet sweet it's so adorable
01:53:03 ◼ ► it's like the it's like the drone adorable edition did you get the drone care plan that they offer so
01:53:09 ◼ ► like if you do crash into something it's no big deal i did they do have like an apple care plus
01:53:14 ◼ ► thing and i put it off and then it was like you have to do this within two days and that was this
01:53:19 ◼ ► morning and so i was like ah fine so for so for 50 bucks i get like two replacements i think or
01:53:24 ◼ ► something well i think i still have to pay for them a little bit just like you do with apple care
01:53:27 ◼ ► but significantly cheaper replacements if i do something extremely terrible and i figure at least
01:53:32 ◼ ► for the first year while i don't know what i'm doing uh it seemed like a reasonable thing to do
01:53:37 ◼ ► but i got the dji mini to fly more combo which basically means it gives you some extra batteries
01:53:43 ◼ ► which actually are worth discussing it gives you a controller which i guess it doesn't come with
01:53:47 ◼ ► generally speaking some extra propellers and i forget what else but um i freaking love this thing
01:53:53 ◼ ► it is completely stupid and useless and wasteful and oh my god it's so much fun that's awesome
01:54:00 ◼ ► useful or it's spying on your neighbors and menacing pets are you are we going to see some
01:54:05 ◼ ► like instagram stories of uh drone footage are you flying through cool things uh i don't i don't know
01:54:11 ◼ ► um i i don't think so uh so my intention with this was just to get something i i feel like i need
01:54:19 ◼ ► something a little bit happy after the last year i don't think that's unreasonable and kasey you're
01:54:23 ◼ ► an adult you're a professional it's fine yeah exactly you don't have to excuse it it's a fun
01:54:28 ◼ ► toy you're a tech podcaster it's fine so yeah so anyway so i wanted to get myself a little treat
01:54:33 ◼ ► i got myself a treat um but i figure on occasion i think it will be nice to have so as an example
01:54:40 ◼ ► like a listener of the show uh had was kind enough to lend me shoot i forget what model it was but i
01:54:47 ◼ ► think it was an earlier version of your current drone marco because what do you have you have the
01:54:51 ◼ ► something uh i have the mavic 2 pro i think it came out like two years ago but not the one with
01:54:59 ◼ ► the zoom lens the one with the big sensor um so i think i had borrowed from this very kind of listener
01:55:05 ◼ ► eric a previous version of that and it was phenomenal um there there were there definitely
01:55:12 ◼ ► a couple of things about it that i that i miss for example the accident avoidance because it um you
01:55:17 ◼ ► know this thing the the big guys will i guess they have like ir sensors or something on their sonar
01:55:23 ◼ ► or something on the front where radar is such that it will try not to run into walls or trees
01:55:28 ◼ ► or what have you um but the mini does not the advantages of the mini other than being cheap
01:55:35 ◼ ► are that it's quite small it is stunningly small and it's under the magic 250 gram limit that
01:55:42 ◼ ► certainly america and i think other countries have have decided that if a drone is under 250
01:55:48 ◼ ► grams it's considered like a complete and utter toy rather than something that could arguably be
01:55:53 ◼ ► used you know professionally now naturally there's nothing stopping me from using this professionally
01:55:57 ◼ ► i would need to go get you know my faa certification what have you but um but i could it's not that it's
01:56:02 ◼ ► a decent enough drone that i think i could do it but the point is is that like you don't have to
01:56:06 ◼ ► register with the faa you you and there's some i think a couple other differences check with you
01:56:12 ◼ ► know your local jurisdictions and what have you um but it's just it's portable it's super portable
01:56:16 ◼ ► like eric when he lent me his drone it came in this huge backpack which because the drone is not small
01:56:21 ◼ ► and so on and so forth um but the thing is so tiny like the the bag it came in is like the size of an
01:56:27 ◼ ► average purse i would say um and and i've been really enjoying using it and the thing moves like
01:56:35 ◼ ► when i was borrowing the whatever mavic it was i don't recall exactly the model number uh but when
01:56:40 ◼ ► i was borrowing that mavic like i kept it on super slow mode because i was so scared i was going to
01:56:44 ◼ ► break this you know fellow's drone and have to send him like a carcass back in the mail he was
01:56:49 ◼ ► kind enough to ship me this drone and say borrow it for a couple of weeks and uh and i didn't want
01:56:53 ◼ ► to ship a carcass back and so i was using it super slow mode well given the mini when you put it in
01:56:59 ◼ ► sport mode we'll do 30 miles an hour which is nuts wow it's 250 grams and it'll do i mean i think it's
01:57:06 ◼ ► a little shy of 30 but it has a readout on your phone screen and it says you know 28 29 miles an
01:57:11 ◼ ► hour or something like that it's bananas um but so much of the tech is so cool and just as as someone
01:57:18 ◼ ► who appreciates good engineering and i think i speak for all three of us in saying that it's
01:57:22 ◼ ► just so cool that so much incredible technologies in this little tiny device and if you've never
01:57:27 ◼ ► really used a drone like in and of itself it's exactly what you would think right you know you
01:57:31 ◼ ► can make it go up down you can make it spin you can go left or right you know you can forward and
01:57:35 ◼ ► back but there's so many cool things you can do and as silly as it sounds and anyone who has flown
01:57:40 ◼ ► a drone in the last 15 years knows this already but you can fly it wherever and say come home
01:57:46 ◼ ► please and sure enough it will ascend to whatever the you know stated uh come home uh altitude is to
01:57:54 ◼ ► make sure it gets over trees and other obstacles it will fly over you at you know a couple hundred
01:58:01 ◼ ► feet and then descend down directly in front of you and it's the coolest thing like it is so
01:58:06 ◼ ► freaking cool and and when you're flying it on your phone screen you see you the way it works
01:58:12 ◼ ► at least for dji drones that i've used is you stick your phone in a like holster within this
01:58:17 ◼ ► controller a controller like you would use for like an rc car and you hook a cable up into the
01:58:23 ◼ ► lightning port and that's your viewfinder if you will and it shows you you know what the drone sees
01:58:27 ◼ ► but you can also call up a map and see exactly where the drone is in relation to you and so on
01:58:31 ◼ ► and so forth and so much of this is so cool and the dji fly app is surprisingly good for a company
01:58:37 ◼ ► that you would think would probably have a mediocre at best um at best app it's it lets you do like
01:58:44 ◼ ► playback of the route that you took in in so far as you can watch a little arrow like dance around
01:58:49 ◼ ► on the map and and it'll even show you the messages it sends you like oh this is where the wind was too
01:58:54 ◼ ► was too strong or what have you i don't know this is so cool and so much fun and i'm so glad i got
01:58:59 ◼ ► it now ask me again in two months i'll probably be like oh yeah that's right i do have a drone i
01:59:03 ◼ ► forgot about that but sitting here now that's how it goes in sitting here now three days in it is
01:59:08 ◼ ► the coolest thing and i and i cannot recommend it enough they're not a sponsor they should be but um
01:59:12 ◼ ► the mini 2 is so fun and so neat and i did um i aaron was taking penny on a walk in the neighborhood
01:59:21 ◼ ► and so i did fly like i tracked her down and flew and and was kind of flying behind her trying to
01:59:27 ◼ ► get a cinematic video i'm not going to post this anywhere for several reasons but i was trying to
01:59:31 ◼ ► get like a cinematic looking video of her and when she got home she said you know you gotta be careful
01:59:36 ◼ ► with that and i was like well yeah and thinking that maybe i flew too close to a tree and i didn't
01:59:41 ◼ ► realize it or something and she said well you know as you were chasing me which was fine there was a
01:59:46 ◼ ► guy getting out of his car at his house and he was looking at that drone and looking at me looking at
01:59:49 ◼ ► that drone looking at me and he was like huh and definitely was like looking at me funny says aaron
01:59:56 ◼ ► and so i guess she was like to try to make it like less awkward she says to penny the dog oh daddy's
02:00:01 ◼ ► using his drone again that silly fellow you know i forget what she said you know something like that
02:00:05 ◼ ► you know to indicate that it's not like some freaking creepers well i mean arguably i was a
02:00:09 ◼ ► creeper yeah are you gonna get the neighborhood watch on your back or whatever the homeowners
02:00:13 ◼ ► association sorry no drones in the neighborhood casey new rule and it's funny because my reign
02:00:17 ◼ ► and the homeowners association is a month away from being done so you never know it very well
02:00:21 ◼ ► could happen yeah that rules that rule is coming down on you hard soon yeah you're under the f
02:00:26 ◼ ► the faa limit but guess what the neighborhood limit is zero grams oh it's so true and i'm just
02:00:31 ◼ ► waiting for the next door post like hey i hear i hear this drone buzzing my hat which yeah i was
02:00:36 ◼ ► doing this you know we don't need the leaf blowers are bad enough i don't need to hear a drone yeah
02:00:40 ◼ ► i don't know if it's all the uh post-apocalyptic uh literature and movies and televisions that
02:00:47 ◼ ► i'm super into but every time i see these drones i think of how incredibly useful they are in any
02:00:52 ◼ ► kind of sort of zombie apocalypse end of the world scenario where like you need to have sort of uh
02:00:59 ◼ ► you know situational awareness in a situation and uh if there's some kind of threat right where you
02:01:04 ◼ ► need to know what's around you and who's what and where and just that you know if you told me as a
02:01:09 ◼ ► kid that you'd be able to buy something like this drone all right a couple hundred bucks and like
02:01:14 ◼ ► how amazing it is and what it does and that you could just you could just buy one and have this
02:01:18 ◼ ► like obviously there are military drones and all sorts of other applications that like the real
02:01:22 ◼ ► uses but like whatever whoever does the next end of the world story with modern technology and
02:01:29 ◼ ► smartphones and everything like i can you know whatever the threat is whether it's other people
02:01:34 ◼ ► or zombies or who knows aliens or whatever having ready access to drones to just grab them from a
02:01:41 ◼ ► store and charge them up assuming there's electricity in this uh in this end of the world story
02:01:46 ◼ ► and fly them out to you know see to surveil your perimeter and everything it's just it's so science
02:01:53 ◼ ► fiction i'm so i'm so old i just can't get over how cool it is like just you just go to the website
02:01:58 ◼ ► how amazing it is you can just fly anywhere in any direction with live video in essentially disposable
02:02:04 ◼ ► hardware disposable from the perspective of like there's no humans in it and it's a couple hundred
02:02:08 ◼ ► bucks and in the apocalypse there's warehouses full of these things so just grab them and fortify
02:02:14 ◼ ► your castle with drones and just have them flying constantly of course the noise is something but
02:02:18 ◼ ► you know it still beats leaf blowers yeah totally not by much but it does not by a lot and it's i
02:02:24 ◼ ► don't know i just find it so fascinating like leaving aside the engineering of it i just think
02:02:28 ◼ ► it's such a nifty change of perspective and i mean that in the both literal and the figurative senses
02:02:34 ◼ ► that it's not often that i get to look down on the roof of my house you know and as it turns out
02:02:39 ◼ ► we're going to be doing an addition in sometime in the next couple of months and one of the things
02:02:44 ◼ ► i'm excited to do is not like film it happening but maybe at the end of each day after the crew
02:02:49 ◼ ► leaves take an overhead shot because you know it's an external thing that's happening take an
02:02:55 ◼ ► overhead shot of the progress right you know and just kind of have maybe not literally a time lapse
02:02:59 ◼ ► but be able to go through the you know week or two weeks or month or whatever it's going to take them
02:03:04 ◼ ► to build it and and see the progress happening you know not in real time but sort of so to speak in
02:03:11 ◼ ► real time and i'm really looking forward to that and plus you know the the time that we had borrowed
02:03:15 ◼ ► that drone from that extremely kind listener it was when we were at cape charles and whenever you
02:03:20 ◼ ► know we can start vacationing properly again i'm really looking forward to in when it's appropriate
02:03:25 ◼ ► when it's legal etc being able to take a you know a couple of videos like that it doesn't have to be
02:03:30 ◼ ► 30 minutes of it it can be just a few minutes but the videos we captured at cape charles a few years
02:03:34 ◼ ► ago when we were borrowing that drone were super cool and i don't think anyone else really cared
02:03:38 ◼ ► that much but i thought they were phenomenally cool and and i i'm really excited to um to to be
02:03:44 ◼ ► able to do that sort of thing and and to be able to get just a different perspective on life and
02:03:51 ◼ ► and document that in and i've been thinking about it a lot and i think this is a topic maybe for
02:03:56 ◼ ► another day but i think it's fun for me and very neat and i'm very lucky to be able to have a a
02:04:07 ◼ ► kind of an arsenal or a tool chest that i can use when it comes to capturing moments you know because
02:04:12 ◼ ► i have the go pro and i've used it as i think we mentioned just a week or two ago i use the go pro
02:04:18 ◼ ► from for even just silly things like sticking it on a window so i can see if penny how and when penny
02:04:24 ◼ ► is escaping from her like pen that we put her in and i the go pro can be used to like film decal
02:04:31 ◼ ► back when you know swimming lessons were a thing and we weren't allergic to the indoors i can bring
02:04:36 ◼ ► that in the pool with me and declyn when we're doing like a swimming lesson or free swim or
02:04:40 ◼ ► whatever and film him underwater and film him you know and not worry about this breaking you know
02:04:45 ◼ ► like you were saying about this disposable to some degree john and having a proper camera with a zoom
02:04:51 ◼ ► lens you know granted it is a pain in the ass in a lot of ways but nevertheless it is also cool to
02:04:59 ◼ ► be able to take out this camera and and be a little bit further away from my family and taking more
02:05:05 ◼ ► candid shots of them like having all of these different tools and now a drone in my arsenal
02:05:11 ◼ ► i really really enjoy it and it's really really neat to be able to have all these different tools
02:05:16 ◼ ► in your tool chest to be able to use the right tool for the job at the right time which of course
02:05:20 ◼ ► 99% of the time is just my damn phone but nevertheless when you get when you have some about
02:05:25 ◼ ► some amounts of you know ability to to plan it is really really cool so with that said marco you
02:05:32 ◼ ► haven't touched a drone in like two years i assume um yeah about a year but that's you know like you
02:05:37 ◼ ► know like i bought it for for a purpose and we were also doing some construction and i wanted
02:05:42 ◼ ► the same thing you were saying like to be able to you know take you know capture some of it going on
02:05:47 ◼ ► um and and it was it was good for that and then you know it was also nice just as a novelty you
02:05:51 ◼ ► know like the the the year of like having this like the first year i had like having this thing
02:05:56 ◼ ► as this great novelty where like you know i would i brought it like to the family gathering at
02:06:00 ◼ ► christmas and they live in a yeah in a rural area and so we were like you know zoomed up and showed
02:06:04 ◼ ► their whole you know their property and you know zoomed down to you know someone else's house like
02:06:08 ◼ ► hey here's an overhead picture of your house and you know it was just it was fun like there's a
02:06:12 ◼ ► lot of novelty value to drones um as long as you're in an area where you're not around a lot
02:06:17 ◼ ► of other people because they are super annoying but we were lucky that we were in two such areas
02:06:23 ◼ ► where they were not a lot of people so it was wonderful and it was it was it was like a great
02:06:28 ◼ ► novelty to bring it around like that first year and you know then the novelty has worn off and
02:06:33 ◼ ► i it's sitting on the shelf and i'm actually i'm going through a big wave of like cleaning out and
02:06:37 ◼ ► and trying to like get rid of a lot of stuff and sell some stuff and give some stuff away and
02:06:40 ◼ ► i i was just thinking today like should i should i give away the drone or sell the drone like i was
02:06:44 ◼ ► just thinking about that literally earlier today not knowing you've done this because like because
02:06:49 ◼ ► you know good mind also significantly larger than yours and so that means everything about it the
02:06:54 ◼ ► batteries like the the chargers like everything about it is bigger and the noise level maybe yeah
02:06:59 ◼ ► i don't know yeah yeah it is i wouldn't say it's dramatically different and granted i haven't heard
02:07:03 ◼ ► a mavic in a couple of years now but my vague recollection is that it is noticeably louder
02:07:10 ◼ ► uh the the the mavic the big guys are noticeably louder than the than the one that i have yeah and
02:07:17 ◼ ► like the one that you have like it has you know as you mentioned like it has a few limitations
02:07:21 ◼ ► compared to mine and you know the image quality is a little bit different because it's like a much
02:07:24 ◼ ► smaller design and but yeah i mean like no question if i were buying new today i would buy the one you
02:07:30 ◼ ► bought exactly that one because i was basically using it you know as you are kind of as as a toy
02:07:36 ◼ ► like so right right right i don't have professional needs i bought the one i bought at the time i
02:07:40 ◼ ► bought it was just i mean probably probably about three years ago now it's a while ago it was as
02:07:44 ◼ ► soon as the mavic 2 came out like i bought it like that week i i bought the one i bought at the time
02:07:49 ◼ ► because that was like the one that was that i knew would be easiest for me to operate because it had
02:07:54 ◼ ► all those convenience features it had like the you know the return to home thing and and all the
02:07:59 ◼ ► protective features to protect you from being too likely to to crash it into a lake or a house you
02:08:05 ◼ ► know like like it would it would automatically fly it also like mine automatically flies home
02:08:08 ◼ ► if it's getting to the point where it's not going to have enough battery life to make it home yep
02:08:13 ◼ ► yep yep yep so that way like again it kind of saves you from from yourself and uh stuff like
02:08:20 ◼ ► that so like there are all sorts of uh like little convenience features you know the the anti-crashing
02:08:25 ◼ ► into things sensors um that make it so that this was this was going to be really nice for
02:08:30 ◼ ► my both needs and my skill level yeah but now you know the one you got the mini 2 it's so much
02:08:36 ◼ ► smaller and so much like i feel like that makes it a lot more delightful in certain ways it also
02:08:41 ◼ ► makes it a lot smaller to fit in a bag yep that's exactly right and and i would imagine because it's
02:08:46 ◼ ► so much lighter weight uh you probably need less battery weight and battery bulk as well to get the
02:08:53 ◼ ► same amount of flight time i i would suspect so this thing will do about 20 to 30 minutes you know
02:08:57 ◼ ► depending on wind and so on and so forth um but yeah it's i'm glad you brought that up because
02:09:03 ◼ ► like i said earlier the particular setup that eric had lent me it was in a fairly large backpack and
02:09:09 ◼ ► you know there were plenty of accessories in it so it could have been in a smaller container but
02:09:13 ◼ ► it was the sort of thing where it was definitely a burden or at least a conscious decision to bring
02:09:20 ◼ ► the drone anywhere in the couple of weeks that he let me borrow it uh whereas this it's certainly
02:09:26 ◼ ► still a decision but it's a lot more casual like eh why not you know well i'll just throw it in
02:09:30 ◼ ► and can't hurt and and that i really like i mean it's small enough that i would consider if i was
02:09:35 ◼ ► going on like an airplane do you remember airplanes i don't know if i do um if i was going on like an
02:09:41 ◼ ► airplane vacation i would consider bringing it because it's not you know tremendous i'm not sure
02:09:46 ◼ ► that i would and certainly depend on where i would be going but it's small enough that it could
02:09:50 ◼ ► hypothetically work um a couple of quick things in case you're interested in this sort of thing and
02:09:54 ◼ ► potentially buying one uh the fly more combo i think i'd mention comes with like this with three
02:09:59 ◼ ► batteries but it also comes with a battery like um charger thing where you can slot all three
02:10:05 ◼ ► batteries into it and it charges via usb-c and what it'll do is it'll just charge yeah it's usb-c
02:10:12 ◼ ► and it'll charge whatever battery is closest to full first and then it will charge the next one
02:10:18 ◼ ► and then the next one but additionally and this is relevant because we're supposed to get a bunch
02:10:22 ◼ ► of ice overnight it will also act as a just standard battery you know like charger like
02:10:28 ◼ ► the other direction so you it has a usb aeb i always get it wrong a standard usb oh yeah usb
02:10:33 ◼ ► out port exactly now that one's usb old it's not usb-c it's a but i could hook up like a standard
02:10:41 ◼ ► lightning cable to this triplet of batteries and charge my phone if our battery if our power goes
02:10:46 ◼ ► out overnight which is super convenient especially when if you're traveling um and so i really dig
02:10:52 ◼ ► that and apparently like getting the batteries in and out of the mini one was a real pain and in it's
02:11:02 ◼ ► on it like my my recollection of the mavic that i had borrowed was that it had like some basic
02:11:06 ◼ ► readouts like what mode you're in what height you're at i think how much battery time was left
02:11:10 ◼ ► does yours have some sort of like lcd on it yeah it's very similar to that yeah okay well this has
02:11:14 ◼ ► no screen whatsoever which is fine but in a perfect world it would be neat to have that on the
02:11:19 ◼ ► controller as well i mean honestly i never use that screen like i'm always just looking at my
02:11:24 ◼ ► phone screen when i operate it oh and also uh the phone is above the controller not below which i
02:11:30 ◼ ► don't think was the case on the mavic that i use the the phone was below the controller when it
02:11:34 ◼ ► was all mounted up and this the phone sits above the controller which is really nice and i much
02:11:39 ◼ ► prefer that do you remember how yours is i know it's been my yeah my phone sits below mine's the
02:11:43 ◼ ► old style okay i i am curious though uh i don't think that are you aware of the goggles yes
02:11:49 ◼ ► actually i know are those compatible with the mini yet i don't think so but i haven't looked into it
02:11:54 ◼ ► and eric had a set for his uh i believe it was a mavic i might be misspeaking um he had a set for
02:11:59 ◼ ► his mavic which i tried like once or twice and was freaking trippy very cool super cool very weird
02:12:07 ◼ ► though that's how that's how the drone racers uh do do the racing have you seen those you ever
02:12:12 ◼ ► seen the drone yes yes yes yes yep and it amazes me that uh i mean if you watch them doing the
02:12:21 ◼ ► yep possibly be controlling that and you're like well they have these goggles let them see what
02:12:25 ◼ ► the drone is seeing and then you see what they're seeing like nope doesn't help i don't understand
02:12:29 ◼ ► because it's like viewing through the lens of that thing it's like they're still going so fast how are
02:12:34 ◼ ► they how are they doing this i mean i suppose it's like any other thing like racing or video games or
02:12:38 ◼ ► whatever it's just practice and skill and probably a lot of crashes in the case of drones because
02:12:43 ◼ ► unlike being in a race car if you crash a drone you know you don't die so but it's just it is
02:12:48 ◼ ► amazing and yeah it is very i think the trippiest thing would have to be kind of like marco was
02:12:53 ◼ ► talking about with the the vr stuff of like if what you're seeing is a thing that is progressing
02:13:00 ◼ ► through space and yet you are standing still that's got to be disconcerting and potentially
02:13:06 ◼ ► motion sickness inducing but but yeah but the speeds these things go the other thing is just
02:13:10 ◼ ► just plain reflexes and just you know talk about flinching whether you run this thing into a wall
02:13:15 ◼ ► it's going to feel like you hit it with your own head right yeah seriously i don't know but yeah
02:13:20 ◼ ► so i mean i kind of wish i had the screen but not a big deal but and the other thing i don't like is
02:13:24 ◼ ► that if i wanted to on the mavic i could i think you would push down and twist a little bit to pop
02:13:30 ◼ ► off the propellers and with this there and i believe this is the only dji drone where this
02:13:34 ◼ ► is the case they actually are screwed in uh which is a little bit of a pain um and i don't love but
02:13:41 ◼ ► all in all why are you taking off the propellers no no i'd not that i wouldn't generally speaking
02:13:46 ◼ ► but like if i was going to leave the drone alone for a while just so i don't break them i would
02:13:50 ◼ ► occasionally take them off like when i shipped them back to eric i took them off um so general
02:13:54 ◼ ► not a big deal and and eventually it'll end up that i will break one of these propellers and
02:13:57 ◼ ► hopefully not the whole drone and so i will need to replace one and that'll be a little bit of a
02:14:01 ◼ ► pain but all things being all things being equal you know with the fly more combo i think was 600
02:14:07 ◼ ► bucks if i'm not mistaken so that's the drone the case the batteries the controller you know with
02:14:11 ◼ ► some extra propellers uh and and i i really am so sitting here now i'm so glad i spent the money i
02:14:18 ◼ ► think it's so much fun and i think it really will be a neat and novel thing to have from time to
02:14:22 ◼ ► time i'm sure you know in the next couple of months i'll i'll go from using it every day to
02:14:26 ◼ ► like once a week to like once a month to oh yeah i have a drone um but nevertheless it is super neat
02:14:32 ◼ ► and super cool and if you have a burning desire to you know to spend a few hundred bucks first of all
02:14:39 ◼ ► atp.fm join and then after that uh you can go to dji or amazon or what have you and uh check it
02:14:45 ◼ ► out i just think it's super cool this just strikes me as one of those toys that if i got it i would
02:14:48 ◼ ► just be angry at how unappreciative my children are of the amazing technology in the world
02:14:52 ◼ ► how much i would have killed for this as a kid they'd be like yeah it's a drone so what yeah
02:14:57 ◼ ► yeah it's so true do you understand it's like yeah i don't know what the equivalent is going
02:15:02 ◼ ► to be when they're old people and they're angry the children aren't amazed by some new technology
02:15:07 ◼ ► but these drones are it's like just just phenomenal i can't even believe they're they're real they are
02:15:13 ◼ ► so amazing like i i'm like the the drone i have which is again like three years old like the
02:15:19 ◼ ► pictures it takes the video it takes i'm like this is better than almost any camera i've ever owned
02:15:26 ◼ ► and it flies yeah i know right and it costs less than most of the fancy cameras do yeah
02:15:35 ◼ ► like it's ridiculous like it's you're right like you almost can't believe that it's real that like
02:15:40 ◼ ► technology like this is one of those products that you use it and you're like wow technology
02:15:45 ◼ ► is amazing like i can't believe that we can do this and what's what's especially impressive too
02:15:49 ◼ ► is just how incredibly good the gimbal is and and and the combination of the gimbal and the actual
02:15:56 ◼ ► you know the flight control of of all the rotors uh is such that like it can you can fly it up in
02:16:03 ◼ ► the air and it can be you know a decently breezy day and you look at the video afterwards and it
02:16:08 ◼ ► is not moving like it is rock steady and you're like how is that possible this thing is hovering
02:16:15 ◼ ► 400 feet in the air on a windy day and i'm like gently moving it and it's it doesn't rock back
02:16:21 ◼ ► and forth at all there's no shake it's shocking how good like how stable it is how you know of
02:16:29 ◼ ► course and you know this thing has a great sensor so it's like how how clear and sharp everything is
02:16:34 ◼ ► it is it is mind-blowing how good this technology is for granted i'm not gonna i'm not gonna say
02:16:41 ◼ ► it's cheap it's not you know these aren't low prices you know as you said like you know 600
02:16:46 ◼ ► bucks is a pretty good entry point for like a decent mid-range drone but for that price
02:16:52 ◼ ► considering that it happens to also be an amazing camera that flies that's that's pretty amazing
02:17:01 ◼ ► like when you and especially you know when you compare the quality of that to a 600 point and
02:17:07 ◼ ► shoot camera like you're almost getting the flying for free it's it's really it's it's really
02:17:14 ◼ ► unbelievable how good these are i mean this is kind of the uh the aviation equivalent of
02:17:19 ◼ ► computational photography setting aside the photography just the flying thing the reason
02:17:23 ◼ ► all these drones exist is because uh computers and software you know advanced and shrunk to the
02:17:31 ◼ ► point where we could both fit them in a device that doesn't weigh too much so you need you know
02:17:37 ◼ ► die shrinks and smaller and smaller feature sets and more efficient circuits so you can have a
02:17:40 ◼ ► smaller battery that doesn't weigh as much and then software wise the control software to be
02:17:47 ◼ ► able to put essentially a bunch of dumb motors and servos in here being controlled by a very
02:17:58 ◼ ► accelerometers and gyroscopes to be able to stay in the air i remember as a kid watching
02:18:07 ◼ ► take some computer and connect it with an umbilical cord because they couldn't actually
02:18:11 ◼ ► put it in the flying thing connect a flying thing with an umbilical cord to this huge array of
02:18:15 ◼ ► computers and these computers would be trying to control the flying thing with some really
02:18:20 ◼ ► complicated software program that some grad student wrote to figure out oh when you're tipping this
02:18:24 ◼ ► way change your rotor angle that way and do you know to eventually essentially be a drone and they
02:18:30 ◼ ► made it look so hard right because the the drones where everything cost a bazillion dollars it was
02:18:35 ◼ ► it was tethered to a giant cable to look like like a pool hose or you know it wasn't even just like
02:18:40 ◼ ► an extension cord it was this huge cable connected up to a wall of the most expensive computers that
02:18:46 ◼ ► they could buy and the thing would crash all over the place right and it's just we needed to just
02:18:51 ◼ ► get over that hump where it's like can we get the electronics small enough can we figure out this
02:18:55 ◼ ► software problem and once we got over that hump it's like guess what we you don't have to be
02:19:00 ◼ ► tethered anymore we can put the computer in there and guess what we figured out the basic software
02:19:04 ◼ ► program to more or less stay in the air and then then that was it like there's just like this
02:19:09 ◼ ► discontinuity of like before this was not a thing that you could even have and now it is well known
02:19:14 ◼ ► enough and the technology is widely available enough that it costs less than a good laptop
02:19:19 ◼ ► right it literally costs less than a good laptop because we cracked this problem this is what's so
02:19:24 ◼ ► exciting about technology that like something that seems so hard is to almost be impossible
02:19:28 ◼ ► and then we get over the hump and it is amazing and in case you're wondering no i do not file
02:19:33 ◼ ► self-driving this category because self-driving really is super duper hard but a remote control
02:19:38 ◼ ► thing that merely knows i stay i can stay level and i can adjust when i'm mashed by the wind and
02:19:44 ◼ ► you can control where i go we did get over that hump and that is a much smaller hump but even that
02:19:49 ◼ ► one was so hard to get over that you know for my entire childhood the reason this is so amazing to
02:19:53 ◼ ► me is that i saw people trying and failing again and again to do this and now it's just like
02:19:57 ◼ ► probably anybody can make one of these because the software idea certainly the hardware is so
02:20:03 ◼ ► widely available that anybody could assemble this amount of hardware like maybe as nice as this it
02:20:07 ◼ ► wouldn't be as good as this and refined and you know so and so forth it's a hard problem but like
02:20:11 ◼ ► this the hardware that's in these drones is not super secret that's why you can get one for a
02:20:16 ◼ ► couple hundred bucks and then the software seems like it's tractable enough that any company with
02:20:22 ◼ ► reasonably good engineering resources can make a drone that flies successfully and can keep itself
02:20:27 ◼ ► level and move around and then it's just a question of who are the good drone makers or who are the
02:20:31 ◼ ► bad ones or whatever but the problem of fairly inexpensive thing that flies has more or less been
02:20:37 ◼ ► solved by humanity and that's why these drones all over the place in the same way that how can you
02:20:41 ◼ ► get decent pictures from a phone sensor the sign of your size of your pinky nail that computational
02:20:46 ◼ ► photography stuff to be able to pull reasonable pictures out of that was solved many years ago
02:20:50 ◼ ► now we're all just iterating on it so drones really are they an amazing technology success for a
02:20:55 ◼ ► success story and maybe my kids should be bored with them but i will never be bored with them
02:20:59 ◼ ► because they just seem like you know they seem like such an amazing triumph and such a sci-fi
02:21:04 ◼ ► thing because that's what it's like when you read sci-fi stories the thing that's amazing is just