00:00:00 ◼ ► You went live before we could pre-flight. Oh, we're gonna be doing a show it's gonna be about technology and
00:00:06 ◼ ► We're gonna go through some follow-up first followed by some topics and then some ask ATP if we have time. Mm-hmm pre-flight accomplished
00:00:14 ◼ ► It's much more complicated than you think it can you imagine if you're getting in like a Cessna or god forbid like a actual arrow
00:00:22 ◼ ► Like a real jet and you watched the pilot do that pre-flight. Yeah, there's wings. There's landing gear. Yeah screw it. We'll be fine
00:00:31 ◼ ► This is why you should never give me a job where serious injury or death might result if I do something wrong
00:00:43 ◼ ► You need to take a about 15-minute course before you're legally allowed to fly it again
00:00:47 ◼ ► Oh, yeah, that's interesting because I actually I registered with the FAA like a couple years back
00:00:53 ◼ ► But I'm sure the requirements have probably changed since then well, so there's that that's still applicable
00:01:01 ◼ ► In addition to that as of like a couple of days ago, you have to take a like 10 to 15 minutes
00:01:07 ◼ ► Please don't fly into other people. Please stay below 400 feet. Please. Don't be an idiot
00:01:19 ◼ ► But in order to you if you were to get questioned and you did not have that like little card to show
00:01:26 ◼ ► Then you could get hypothetically in trouble now the likelihood of the FAA or even local law enforcement coming to question you is not great
00:01:33 ◼ ► Unless you're flying in like a national park or perhaps a national seashore in which case there's 50/50 chance
00:01:39 ◼ ► But I wouldn't be flying international seashore. Of course not I would be flying next to a national seashore and possibly
00:01:44 ◼ ► Overflying it. However standing in a place where it would be legal to pilot a drone. Actually. I don't know if that's okay or not
00:01:52 ◼ ► I do think it is I think it is in the clear. Yeah, the rules are that you are allowed to overfly national parks
00:01:58 ◼ ► As long as you are standing and taking off and landing in a place where it is legal to fly drones
00:02:05 ◼ ► And as long as the flight itself remains legal, which means it has to remain within your line of sight
00:02:09 ◼ ► So you can fly like as far as you can see into a national park while standing outside of it. Hmm
00:02:23 ◼ ► It's called in order to be able to do it commercially like not that I expect to make any money off of it
00:02:29 ◼ ► but basically if there's even the whiff that you could one day make money off of something that you've done with the drone then you should
00:02:39 ◼ ► But I told myself I'm not gonna do that until I get this app that is never going to be released released
00:03:03 ◼ ► Like I'm not even receiving money for it and I give it to them to use in a real estate listing. That's
00:03:10 ◼ ► Falling afoul of the FAA's guidelines. So even though I'm not receiving money because it was a commercial use I
00:03:22 ◼ ► Example of you know, even my own house if I wanted to use drone pictures my own my own house
00:03:27 ◼ ► If I wanted to sell it then I would need to be licensed and I am NOT I do wonder how much
00:03:37 ◼ ► We've recently learned about how terrible you and the IRS is about enforcing any of the tax laws
00:03:42 ◼ ► You know because that they don't go after the rich people because it cost too much money to pursue them
00:03:49 ◼ ► How much how much enforcement activity is there the FAA worrying about people with drones probably near airports?
00:03:55 ◼ ► Maybe some but like I don't think they're gonna find out that you took a drone picture for your friend's house to use in a real
00:04:01 ◼ ► Estate listing and track you down like I don't have that. I don't know you should find out I'm very interested
00:04:06 ◼ ► Like do they have like, you know thousands of agents wandering the internet looking for this or is it just like three people in a department?
00:04:20 ◼ ► But if I was Casey Neistat and you know posting to a million people on YouTube or whatever
00:04:26 ◼ ► But nevertheless, I think it is unlikely that anything would happen where anyone would care what I was doing
00:04:33 ◼ ► Unless I'm flying near an airport, which is what you just said and I've also understood that national parks
00:04:42 ◼ ► So as an example, I would love to fly in in the Shenandoah National Park, which is not too far from where I am
00:04:54 ◼ ► I will make people very upset very quickly in no small part because they want to be peaceful in the park
00:05:03 ◼ ► And so I think if I were to do National Park or Airport, I could get into kind of big trouble kind of quickly
00:05:14 ◼ ► But I mean, I I don't want to insert like so I don't pay a lot of attention to read it at all
00:05:19 ◼ ► but one of the things I do pay a little bit of attention to is slash our slash drones and
00:05:27 ◼ ► Prickly or they're super they're sticklers for the laws because as long as everyone's behaving
00:05:37 ◼ ► but if there's a bunch of idiots flying through the national parks and so on and like buzzing airports then the FAA is gonna have to
00:05:44 ◼ ► Start making ever increasing regulations making it ever harder to even just fly recreationally, which is what I do
00:05:51 ◼ ► So the theory is if you're not a jerk and if other people aren't jerks then we'll probably be okay
00:05:57 ◼ ► Yeah, it's like don't ruin this for everybody exactly exactly. So in short you're doomed
00:06:09 ◼ ► All right. Well, let's just dive in. Well, this is John's favor. Let's just start with some follow-up
00:06:19 ◼ ► The eternal struggle to reload pages in Safari continue only for you John a few tidbits
00:06:24 ◼ ► One question that a bunch of people had that I actually didn't confirm until today because I just hadn't gone around to it
00:06:52 ◼ ► I mean I was specifically complaining about the lack of reload button with accompanying
00:07:06 ◼ ► I know you just pulled to refresh right because they didn't realize I was talking about the Mac version and not the iOS or iPad
00:07:15 ◼ ► iPad OS and iOS is that you could pull to refresh the page which is great like that should totally be a feature
00:07:20 ◼ ► It makes sense. It's made. It's kind of native to iOS people are used to pulling things to refresh them, but
00:07:35 ◼ ► But even for regular users say you are down at the lower section of some web page for your town and you're trying to
00:07:41 ◼ ► See if something has been updated to let you know that you're allowed to park or that school was cancelled or whatever and it's somewhere
00:07:48 ◼ ► Farther down the page people are used to I think even just regular web browsing people who are not web developers
00:07:55 ◼ ► Scrolling a web page to a particular position and then just bouncing on command R or in Windows parlance f5 or whatever or hit it
00:08:03 ◼ ► To reload that web page and for many many many many years now most good web browsers when you click reload
00:08:09 ◼ ► We'll try to return you to the same place where you were on the page assuming the page hasn't changed that much
00:08:23 ◼ ► You expect a good web browser to reload the page and not make you scroll back to find it again
00:08:28 ◼ ► Well, the only way you can pull to refresh is to go back to the top of the page again and pull the refresh
00:08:33 ◼ ► You can tap the status bar or whatever the top of the screen to zoom up to the front then you can pull to refresh
00:08:38 ◼ ► But now you've lost your spot and you've got to scroll back down to where you were. It's not as
00:08:42 ◼ ► Nice an experience as being able to be on a particular position on the page and just bounce on reload as you impatiently waited for
00:08:51 ◼ ► It should definitely exist, but it doesn't appear to exist at all on the Mac and it is not
00:09:00 ◼ ► Especially on iOS on a phone where you are unlikely to have a keyboard attached to it where you can't actually hit command R
00:09:06 ◼ ► Your only recourse for reloading is some kind of button or UI element or going all the way back to the top of the page
00:09:13 ◼ ► People go to web bulletin boards if you're towards the bottom of a page in a web bulletin board and you're trying to reload to
00:09:18 ◼ ► See if someone replies having to scroll back down to the bottom would be terrible. So there's that
00:09:28 ◼ ► As a bunch of people noted who looked at it and as I myself of course noted for a while
00:09:32 ◼ ► Did I talk about this? I did at the last show that the reload glyph was kind of misaligned because the arrow sticks up from
00:09:42 ◼ ► Various ways to fix that a lot of people sent in this suggestion. It's the exact suggestion that I had been pursuing which is
00:09:47 ◼ ► to try to defeat that these quote-unquote smart algorithm that positions that glyph by putting some kind of
00:09:54 ◼ ► Technically not completely transparent pixel somewhere to shove the perimeter of the thing around
00:10:01 ◼ ► And that does work and I put a very tiny, you know single pixel thing that is like 1% opaque
00:10:07 ◼ ► It doesn't actually show up in the UI in a way that you can see it, but it does let me reposition the button
00:10:14 ◼ ► You're still at the mercy of the algorithm, which is trying to like scale you and Center your non opaque pixels
00:10:23 ◼ ► First of all, I can't get it all the way along the way I want because I can't push it up high enough
00:10:35 ◼ ► Whatever one would want but just to align the circle with the greater than last then signs
00:10:42 ◼ ► But then the top of it's too small and it scales it down. So anyway, I messed with that
00:10:49 ◼ ► I keep bumping the version number every time I do something like tweak the the reload glyph by two pixels
00:10:53 ◼ ► But I think it is better aligned now the bottom is not aligned and neither is the top but it's kind of splits the difference
00:11:06 ◼ ► I can't get the result that I really want because I don't have total control over where these glyphs are drawn
00:11:27 ◼ ► Web extension. It's not the same thing as mine. I think it's think it's like the you know
00:11:43 ◼ ► So if you miss that but like I said Safari doesn't even have the reload button in the address bar
00:11:47 ◼ ► But if you liked the reload button being in the address bar and you wish it came back on your Mac
00:11:56 ◼ ► I want it in my toolbar, which is why I have my extension, but if you want it in the address bar
00:12:06 ◼ ► But honestly, it's if you can make any kind of web extension you can make this one. It shouldn't be too hard indeed
00:12:15 ◼ ► This was confusing to me. I put this in the follow-up and and as as usual when I have time
00:12:26 ◼ ► Safari on iOS 15 and Mac OS Monterey automatically upgrades web connections to HTTPS on compatible sites for improved security
00:12:32 ◼ ► I'm like, oh they finally added the equivalent of whatever HTTPS everywhere or one of those various extensions
00:12:37 ◼ ► That you could get for your browser what they would do is you'd go to a website and if you didn't put HTTPS in the front
00:12:47 ◼ ► So I tried my own website because my own website supports HTTPS, but it also supports HTTP
00:12:59 ◼ ► Like maybe they were just wrong about this. I'm like, but this is this is story on MacRumors
00:13:19 ◼ ► It does support it but it's not known so they do they have just like a a giant list of websites said
00:13:25 ◼ ► Hey, these are all the websites. We've discovered the support HTTPS because it's gonna be a really long list
00:13:41 ◼ ► It's a lot of you know failed attempts that I don't know what percentage of sites that people go to on a daily basis
00:13:49 ◼ ► But I can imagine when you do things at Apple scale you kind of have to be careful with a blanket policy of let's try
00:13:54 ◼ ► This thing that might or might not work before we do the thing you asked me to do, right?
00:13:58 ◼ ► Maybe I mean it makes sense for them to be conservative, but I also like it seems like these days
00:14:07 ◼ ► HTTPS first because like the only way that would really break is if sites like have it enabled
00:14:26 ◼ ► Yeah, I don't know. I mean it's still an improvement, but I'd like to see it better. It seems like it could be better
00:14:34 ◼ ► iCloud private relay and regions so this was observed by among others Rali Rakhama who writes
00:14:41 ◼ ► I'm from Finland and Safari has put me into Russia and Germany not that close and all the services
00:14:55 ◼ ► That's kind of a non us centric thing like we kind of think oh you can get close enough to my region
00:15:00 ◼ ► But if you're in the middle of Europe Europe like, you know close enough to my region may be in an entirely different country
00:15:09 ◼ ► Laws and restrictions and websites that may or may not want them accessing it. So yeah, that's that's gonna be a challenge and it's
00:15:19 ◼ ► Very high population density and but if you were in Finland and the website thinks you're from Russia
00:15:29 ◼ ► I actually went to Helsinki once I probably told the story before for a very brief work trip and I will never forget
00:15:42 ◼ ► But we were doing a thing where my company and this other company in Helsinki were trying to you know
00:15:50 ◼ ► You know, we were they were trying to like modify their API to for us a little bit and you know
00:15:55 ◼ ► We they were you know fielding requests from us and so on and this is late April and I said, okay
00:15:59 ◼ ► Well, you know, we'd really like to do this that and the other thing and they said, okay. Okay, we'll get that to you in September
00:16:13 ◼ ► But it wasn't that much stuff to be done right and they said well, no, no, we can't do it over the summer
00:16:17 ◼ ► I said why cuz we're not here. What? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we take off from like May till August
00:16:24 ◼ ► What yeah, we all go up we all go up to our lake shanties houses, whatever they called it sheds
00:16:35 ◼ ► Loses something in translation. Yes, I learned that a vara is Finnish as well. I'm sure we're saying it incorrectly
00:16:49 ◼ ► Apparently the entirety of the country just like buggers off for three months in the summer and didn't nobody's nobody cares
00:16:55 ◼ ► Whereas an American can't leave work for three minutes without somebody getting perturbed about it
00:17:00 ◼ ► We live in the wrong country gentlemen, and this has been very obvious for the last four years or now
00:17:08 ◼ ► We are sponsored this week by member full monetize your passion with membership member fall allows you to build
00:17:21 ◼ ► It has everything you need to run a membership program and it's used by some of the biggest creators on the web
00:17:27 ◼ ► Memberful makes it easy on you. It seamlessly integrates with the tools you already use
00:17:36 ◼ ► Gift subscription support Apple pay support free trials private podcast and tons more features
00:17:43 ◼ ► All this is backed by their world-class support team ready to help you get things working
00:17:51 ◼ ► They are passionate about your success and you always have access to a real human at memberful and all this is
00:17:57 ◼ ► Done within your control you keep full ownership of your audience your brand and your membership
00:18:11 ◼ ► Com and you can see how easy it is to add membership to your existing business to really add
00:18:17 ◼ ► Revenue from your audience so that you can sustain what you do and you can focus on being creator being a business
00:18:24 ◼ ► Whatever else you want to focus on memberful helps you build that with their amazing platform
00:18:29 ◼ ► They handle all the hard stuff so you can focus on what you do best while earning revenue easily with memberful
00:18:46 ◼ ► Tell me about Martin has what he's winkle that's a great name and I probably mispronounced. What did Martin have to say?
00:18:55 ◼ ► Yeah, this is a question that I actually don't know the answer to and I tried to look at it up before the show
00:19:02 ◼ ► So I figured to put it out there for the public if someone perhaps someone from Apple can let us know a lot of people
00:19:10 ◼ ► What about other applications like we read off the stuff from the WWDC slides like oh it does traffic in Safari does DNS
00:19:20 ◼ ► but the question is like what about like overcast or net newswire where they embed a webkit view and
00:19:25 ◼ ► Aren't doing anything different or special does webkit always do private relay if you're signed up for it if you embed it in your app
00:19:32 ◼ ► Are you doing private relay or does the WWDC slide apply and say well if you're doing plain HTTP, then we'll apply private
00:19:43 ◼ ► So I don't actually know the answer to this in terms of how many third-party apps that are not Safari
00:19:48 ◼ ► That are doing HTTPS connections will get this I saw a bunch of interviews with people like, you know
00:19:54 ◼ ► Federi went on this long tour visiting people that seem to imply that any app that uses Apple's frameworks
00:20:00 ◼ ► Meaning like if you're just embedded one of the modern webkit views you will use private relay
00:20:15 ◼ ► Reneau lean heart said I learned from the talk show. I think this was a federally interview
00:20:20 ◼ ► And jaws that private relay is always used to contact known trackers even without an active subscription to iCloud
00:20:28 ◼ ► Plus, so I think this is part of Apple's anti tracking thing that Apple does have a list of these are like the various
00:20:34 ◼ ► web, you know DNS entries host names that are used to track people for ad networks and everything and
00:20:39 ◼ ► No matter what, even if you don't have iCloud private relay because you don't pay for iCloud storage or whatever no matter what?
00:20:50 ◼ ► But either way they will use private relay to connect to those trackers no matter what which is nice. That's a huge thing
00:20:59 ◼ ► Intelligent tracking prevention feature that launched a few years back. I'm from her correctly
00:21:19 ◼ ► So that's you know yet more, you know, wonderful anti tracking stuff from Apple that that actually
00:21:29 ◼ ► The good side of things and seems to just only foil the crappy creepy people. Well foil
00:21:36 ◼ ► This is always a cat and mouse game right every every time Apple has been doing these moves for years and every time Apple has
00:21:41 ◼ ► Done something there's been an answer like okay. Well if we can't do that, we'll do this
00:21:49 ◼ ► Chat room tell me the acronym that I can't remember that has an F in it. Oh, they're weird like cohort thing
00:22:00 ◼ ► Anyway, there's always an answer or before that it was like fingerprinting based on your installed fonts and those doors were closed
00:22:07 ◼ ► so so I don't think anything that Apple does is a sort of permanent solution to this but this is this latest salvo is
00:22:13 ◼ ► Seems pretty potent and I hope it takes longer for the creepy add tracking companies to figure out how to way
00:22:29 ◼ ► So what's going on? That's part of the magic trick or talked about the magic trick of universal control. Am I getting that right?
00:22:35 ◼ ► Where they use the the edge of the screen that you jam your cursor against as a signal of you basically telling the computer
00:22:44 ◼ ► Mac the you know iPad is sitting on or whatever so they don't have to figure out and they don't have to ask you
00:22:49 ◼ ► Well last show I mentioned that you can set the mouse and trackpad scroll directions separately
00:22:54 ◼ ► Something that I've done through my entire life of using Apple devices with mice and track pads and you can guess where this is going
00:23:01 ◼ ► It's always worked for me because there's the magic trick. I never use them at the same time
00:23:10 ◼ ► Oh, I rarely use a trackpad button hook one up for a second and I'd be like, oh the scroll direction is wrong
00:23:15 ◼ ► And so I would go to system preferences and I would go to trackpad and I would see the checkbox there and say oh
00:23:22 ◼ ► I would click it and go back the other way right and then later on I'd switch back to a mouse and
00:23:29 ◼ ► I must have messed it up when I have the trackpad and I go to the mouse preferences and I'd change it or whatever
00:23:32 ◼ ► It was tricking me into thinking that those are two separate checkboxes, but you know, are you getting it?
00:23:46 ◼ ► But there is apparently only one setting but fear not third-party software to the rescue because unlike iOS Mac apps can do this
00:23:52 ◼ ► We'll put two links in the show notes one to scroll reverser and another to utility called the most or mouse MOS
00:24:12 ◼ ► All right, and then you had brought up a vara a vera whatever it's called earlier Tom, I think I don't know
00:24:19 ◼ ► I'm going with like the Google Translate like Finnish voice thing. Like if you make it try to say it and finish
00:24:26 ◼ ► Like knowing how you're supposed to say it in the origin language doesn't mean you know how to say it in English
00:24:30 ◼ ► But I don't know how to say it in either one. So yeah that cool mech game from the 90s 80s
00:24:37 ◼ ► I don't know what they gave anything happened in it's gotta be 90s. Maybe it was the 2000s anyway
00:24:47 ◼ ► I and a group of old players got permission from ambrosia and the original author to port it to modern OS's check it out
00:24:54 ◼ ► And we'll link to the github page where you can see the source code and also download binaries for Mac and Windows
00:25:04 ◼ ► Yeah, if you don't have nostalgia for this game, you're gonna be like what the hell is this?
00:25:08 ◼ ► But if you do have nostalgia for the game, it is as you remember it. It's pretty amazing
00:25:21 ◼ ► Like I get that like you look at descent with modernized and descent did not look good, but at a glance this looks
00:25:31 ◼ ► This was still in the age of software rendering descent was also in the age of software rendering for the most part as well
00:25:43 ◼ ► But what a var had over a descent was like what all Mac games had over things as max had pixels that weren't the size of
00:25:50 ◼ ► So here we go. It was quote unquote high resolution what it had against it was hey, no texture mapping
00:25:57 ◼ ► Right, so extremely sharp, but flat shaded polygons. Yeah, see I'm not impressed because I look at descent
00:26:04 ◼ ► I'll put links in the show notes if you look at the one of the screenshots from descent that is in wicket
00:26:21 ◼ ► It may not be because if you put it on your 6k monitor now from the modern version you can make it really big
00:26:26 ◼ ► Fair, but it looks like garbage. It looks like Star Fox if anything. I don't even see a screenshot on me
00:26:32 ◼ ► I just put it in the chat. It'll be in the show notes. Oh, no, that's not how big the game is
00:26:44 ◼ ► The little Walker that you play it's a two-legged the chicken Walker not a 2d chicken Walker. Anyway, it's got two legs
00:27:01 ◼ ► I mean, I suppose if you technically you could say x-wing does it but not really but anyway descent was really all all possible degrees
00:27:16 ◼ ► The main thing I mentioned last time is that your movement direction and your looking direction were independent which almost no games do these days
00:27:27 ◼ ► You look in a direction and press forward you will be going in the direction that you're looking which greatly simplifies moving around in
00:27:35 ◼ ► Where you are actually like a little mechanical two-legged tank where your movement direction and you don't kind of like any kind of tank your movement
00:27:46 ◼ ► Difficult and unfamiliar and why you probably won't enjoy it if you try it really selling it John this this looks like
00:27:59 ◼ ► Science Center in Columbus, Ohio that where I grew up called cos I they had this VR demo
00:28:10 ◼ ► Oh, yeah, and it was you know way before you could get VR anything for any kind of home hardware
00:28:18 ◼ ► You could you could go try at these science center places for kids and it was very much like this
00:28:23 ◼ ► I tried it for like five seconds and it was very much looking like this this screen shot of this game
00:28:54 ◼ ► This is a back what back when there was the rumor that these Sega Genesis we could it was gonna get a VR headset
00:29:16 ◼ ► I threw this in here just just because I think it's fascinating to watch how Apple's podcast stuff is
00:29:21 ◼ ► Evolving slash breaking slash getting fixed. We were trying to figure out what the deal we mentioned on a past show that Apple podcasts the
00:29:27 ◼ ► Application on iOS is bad at displaying show notes, right? But then we're getting reports in from our listeners
00:29:32 ◼ ► Hey, you know show it's look messed up or some people saying the show. Let's look fine here
00:29:39 ◼ ► We eventually what we learned was that the ATP member feed displays correctly in Apple podcast, but the ATP public feed does not
00:29:53 ◼ ► The only thing that is different in the feeds are the URLs and a couple other things that have nothing to do with the content
00:30:05 ◼ ► You know indented list with links and everything like that and then I'd look at the public feed and it was just a giant mess
00:30:15 ◼ ► What what the heck is going on, but we're just telling you that this was reported to us and was reproducible
00:30:21 ◼ ► But I can tell you that the feeds are not different from each other in any way that would cause this
00:30:25 ◼ ► So the reason why is not the feed it's how Apple is getting and managing it as far as I can tell so
00:30:34 ◼ ► Every version like every client out there was downloading the feeds directly from their publishers
00:30:44 ◼ ► Almost all our modern podcast apps they'll download the audio files from directly from publishers
00:30:50 ◼ ► But they won't download the feed the feed is getting refreshed centrally by their app servers
00:30:59 ◼ ► Hey download this download this download this whatever and Apple podcasts does not work that way at least did not work that way until this update
00:31:05 ◼ ► And as a result it got some interesting benefits. So overcast does server-side crawling and has since the beginning
00:31:19 ◼ ► So if some business has an internal RSS feed for an internal podcast, it's only accessible on their network
00:31:30 ◼ ► You've always been able to and there's very few apps that that still do that these days that that are that are among the ones that
00:31:35 ◼ ► Like people really know well when Apple released this big update and a couple months ago that enabled all this new stuff
00:31:58 ◼ ► Rather than subscribing through their directory. It will still crawl that feed the old way directly from the app
00:32:04 ◼ ► So there's two different paths for the data to get into the Apple podcast app the server-side crawling path
00:32:34 ◼ ► It's going through a whole different path and my guess is they didn't write that code into the app
00:32:38 ◼ ► So that's why this is this these two different things that are happening. It's not a good reason, but I'm pretty sure that's the reason
00:32:53 ◼ ► You should use a different app, even if it's not overcast any Apple do better. I think with the show notes, but
00:33:01 ◼ ► You're getting without knowing it you get non broken show notes if you use Apple podcast, but really maybe don't use Apple podcast
00:33:14 ◼ ► You should invest in your kitchen tools made ends cookware and kitchenware products are used by thousands of the world's best chefs
00:33:27 ◼ ► They source the finest materials and partner with renowned craftspeople to make premium kitchen tools available directly to you
00:33:34 ◼ ► Without the markup Mayden's products are made to last and they offer a lifetime guarantee to back that up
00:33:41 ◼ ► their cookware distributes heat evenly and can easily go from the stovetop to the oven and their knives are fully forged perfectly
00:33:49 ◼ ► Balanced and they stay sharp. I personally can tell you I have been such a happier home cook
00:33:55 ◼ ► Ever since I started caring about this kind of stuff. I got I got good tools. I got good pants
00:34:01 ◼ ► It really makes the job easier when you have great tools and made in makes fantastic tools
00:34:06 ◼ ► They have thirty thousand five star reviews and their products are used by some of the world's best chefs at Michelin starred
00:34:17 ◼ ► ATP and use promo code ATP for 15% off your first order that's made in cookware comm slash ATP
00:34:40 ◼ ► Apple insider reports that a source they spoke to at Apple confirmed that the problem was always an issue with what the OS was displaying
00:34:52 ◼ ► Help me remind myself and the listeners. So this is that people were getting Apple silicon max and they were seemingly
00:34:59 ◼ ► Absolutely thrashing the SSDs to a point that was deeply concerning and so it sounds like that's really just a display issue
00:35:09 ◼ ► I was using some tool that was showing a bunch of stats and the stats look terrifying and as when we discussed in the show
00:35:14 ◼ ► We said well, we don't know if these stats are necessarily accurate. We'll have to wait and see well
00:35:21 ◼ ► Apparently this was a display issue. I mean again, this is from Apple insider an anonymous Apple source, you know
00:35:30 ◼ ► The other part of this is that in Mac OS 11.4, which I think was just being released when this story was written
00:35:37 ◼ ► It now properly reports the numbers like so the same tool will get better numbers from the OS
00:35:46 ◼ ► if you if you run those tools now you will see more reassuring numbers and also by the way
00:35:52 ◼ ► Supposedly back when you were seeing the numbers that were scaring you those numbers weren't accurate
00:35:57 ◼ ► It is good news for everybody with an ARM Mac that their SSDs are not going to prematurely wear out
00:36:02 ◼ ► that's that's a very big if but it is plausible that this would be true and that I think is
00:36:13 ◼ ► SSDs somehow writing like hundreds of gigs of data without any correspondingly obvious file system activity or anything like that
00:36:20 ◼ ► Yeah, or without like bogging down your whole system. Like it's always been the problem with the whole chrome thing
00:36:28 ◼ ► Eventually, we should be able to have some kind of reproduction. So same thing with the SSD if those numbers are real
00:36:32 ◼ ► Where is that data coming from and going to and shouldn't we be able to see that happening?
00:36:45 ◼ ► But I just did want to follow up if someone is out there still being terrified that their their m1 max SSD is destroying itself
00:37:03 ◼ ► Personal kind of fear maybe the app of last year. I've been beta testing this for a while on a show a long time ago
00:37:09 ◼ ► I was complaining about my inability to find a good replacement app from my old app that would mail something to myself and
00:37:19 ◼ ► I know this is a terrible workflow that everybody hates and will tell me I shouldn't do it
00:37:25 ◼ ► Hold on you get to do that with your your tweet email workflow and everyone just says okay. It's a one-step workflow
00:37:46 ◼ ► Say talk about it on the next ATP and there's not like really a good with my third-party Twitter clients
00:37:55 ◼ ► So mailing them to myself is the way to go and I had this like mail to self app, you know from years ago
00:38:08 ◼ ► Attachments and who was from and a link to the original tweet would make a nice email to me
00:38:11 ◼ ► So I had all the information there wouldn't have to go dig it out again, right and that app eventually
00:38:16 ◼ ► I think GDPR killed it maybe like or the developer just stopped doing it. You know, it broke years ago
00:38:23 ◼ ► I tried to make a bunch of shortcuts to do it and I just couldn't figure it out because
00:38:32 ◼ ► And just generally like it's mostly me hitting shortcuts if I bang my head against that
00:38:39 ◼ ► There's a million mail things to yourself apps on the App Store and I think I bought all of them
00:38:43 ◼ ► None of them quite worked the way I wanted and I complained about it on ATP ages ago and somebody heard me and said oh
00:38:53 ◼ ► But anyway, they made an app that you mail stuff to yourself and they added a bunch of features just for me
00:38:59 ◼ ► like it's got this advanced pane for mailing tweets specifically where you can do a sort of a
00:39:04 ◼ ► Print F style format string where you can basically say here's here's what the message is gonna look like, you know with little you know
00:39:16 ◼ ► You can just basically make the email look like exactly what do you want to look like including the subject line and the body?
00:39:20 ◼ ► So I did that and I've been using this beta. I know it seems like for a year now and they finally released
00:39:40 ◼ ► You can use the mail share sheet. You can use a million other apps. My whole thing was I needed to be one tap
00:39:45 ◼ ► I don't want to enter anything. I don't want to enter an address. I don't want to type anything
00:39:53 ◼ ► My favorite Twitter clients switched to making me do two taps to get to the share sheet which kind of bummed me out
00:40:02 ◼ ► So if you ever wanted to mail yourself something with one tap specifically if that might be a tweet check out mail
00:40:20 ◼ ► DC quick hits before we move on to SKTP. This is my favorite piece of feedback that we've gotten in a
00:40:30 ◼ ► Jake Moore writes that you know, there's a refund API and I think we briefly touched on this that we thought would let app developers
00:40:48 ◼ ► It merely lets you show a sheet to customers so that they can request a refund from Apple
00:41:01 ◼ ► This is something that like I'm I'm really I'm a little disappointed that they didn't give us what we actually
00:41:07 ◼ ► Thought we were getting like when it kind of breeze buying the keynote in the state of the Union
00:41:19 ◼ ► the only way for users to get refunds is to like submit a request to Apple and then they'll hear back with within 24 to
00:41:25 ◼ ► 48 hours or whatever and so it's it kind of sucks to solve certain customer service problems that we can't do this for people
00:41:32 ◼ ► And and you know, it isn't just people who like, you know buy it and think they got ripped off or whatever
00:41:37 ◼ ► It's you know, what if somebody buys it thinking it'll do something and then it turns out it doesn't do it and they email you
00:41:42 ◼ ► And say hey, you know, why isn't it doing this and you have to write back say that's not what it does or sorry
00:41:47 ◼ ► That's impossible or whatever else. There's all sorts of keys like that where like you need the ability
00:41:55 ◼ ► Hey, I'm sorry. This didn't work out the way you wanted or I'd rather not take your money for this
00:42:30 ◼ ► Customers think that if that if the developer wants to refund them they can and that this is like a choice and an ability that the
00:42:41 ◼ ► You're you're blurring that line even more you're making it even you're making it look even more like the developer has control over this
00:42:53 ◼ ► They're probably gonna blame the developer even more and and be even less happy and leave even more one-star reviews as if it's our fault
00:43:06 ◼ ► It shows Apple's listening to a problematic area like we have this problem area Apple for the first time ever is
00:43:14 ◼ ► Making something a little bit better and easier about refunds from within apps and that's good. That's a good first step
00:43:30 ◼ ► They'll they'll take that forward maybe next year in next year's releases and give us the real second step that we actually want
00:43:47 ◼ ► Do they still do the thing where if you give someone a refund you still have to pay Apple to 30%?
00:43:57 ◼ ► Certain like language or maybe just like an urban legend as far as I know that was never actually the case
00:44:06 ◼ ► Not rule the policy that they have about perhaps not explaining the situation clearly to the customer. I'm assuming applies here
00:44:14 ◼ ► So for example, if you threw up your own sheet before the official one that said I'm gonna throw up a UI right now
00:44:23 ◼ ► But keep in mind that that I the developer of this app can't actually give you a refund only
00:44:28 ◼ ► Apple can and the only thing the sheet you're about to see does is submit a thing to Apple and then you trigger the sheet
00:44:41 ◼ ► I mean that's I have an email snippet that does exactly that because I get the question so often
00:44:50 ◼ ► I'm trying to think of why why doesn't Apple want developers to be able to refund stuff because a developer
00:44:55 ◼ ► Seems to have the same incentives as Apple to either give or not give refunds because that you're giving back money, right?
00:45:04 ◼ ► But of course that means you make less money and if Apple never really did keep its 30%
00:45:10 ◼ ► Like what are they afraid of they afraid that if we let developers refund they'll just refund everybody
00:45:14 ◼ ► Why would a developer do that? They would lose all their money. I'm gonna refund everyone who's ever bought my app
00:45:32 ◼ ► I can see the reverse where people say well Apple issue refunds in the case where the developer can't by all means have an
00:45:45 ◼ ► So even the developer says no, I'm not giving you a refund Apple can say actually we are giving this person a refund, right?
00:46:05 ◼ ► Customers can go directly to Apple and ignore the developer and just say Apple give me a refund this developers a jerk, right?
00:46:11 ◼ ► But we don't have those instead. We just have a UI maybe this is a step on the road to that, right?
00:46:18 ◼ ► it's kind of a kind of a bummer that we all thought developers are going to have the ability to give refunds and really it's just
00:46:27 ◼ ► that's only going to make customers even angrier developers because it's like I would I can imagine what your little like text expander snippet or
00:46:33 ◼ ► Whatever says mm-hmm, but I know for a fact having told this to many people in the real world
00:46:38 ◼ ► Nobody believes you when you say that no, it seems absurd that that the developer of an app can't issue you a refund and
00:46:46 ◼ ► When you say that you sound like you're scamming them. You sound like a scammer like oh, sorry. We can't do that
00:46:54 ◼ ► It sounds like a scam but it's the truth of the App Store and it's so absurd. Nobody believes it
00:47:02 ◼ ► There are legitimate reasons why Apple would be really cautious about going into something like this
00:47:14 ◼ ► It's the app store. You use it for money laundering. You just buy expensive applications then refund. Yeah possibly
00:47:19 ◼ ► I mean like the way the system is set up right now developers don't get paid for a long time
00:47:28 ◼ ► That's when you actually get the money and and you can only request a refund within that time period
00:47:33 ◼ ► so when if you get a refund through Apple, the developer has not yet been paid that money and
00:47:46 ◼ ► So there no money actually changed hands between Apple and developer in that in that process. So like that that end is probably fairly safe
00:47:52 ◼ ► But when you're talking about the App Store and something where somebody can automatically
00:48:08 ◼ ► We can't even imagine because the App Store is suction like all of Apple stuff, but especially the App Store
00:48:13 ◼ ► It's such a massive target for any like any potential scam with the money side of things
00:48:35 ◼ ► Very important and very old part of Apple's tech stack like the the whole like, you know
00:48:41 ◼ ► App Store iTunes store like that whole infrastructure is really old and really important and
00:48:47 ◼ ► It's like modifying old banking software. There's never a good time to do that. Nobody ever wants to do that
00:48:54 ◼ ► What manager is ever gonna say I want to take on that project like they're just there the incentives are all wrong
00:49:10 ◼ ► The incentives don't make sense for anybody taking on those problems and the risks are very high to the company
00:49:23 ◼ ► I've often wondered how the refund stuff works because my apps are also confusing and people buy them and don't understand what they do and
00:49:32 ◼ ► So very often when I look at my like, you know app figures graphs or whatever. What did you make today? I made negative four dollars
00:49:48 ◼ ► But I do wonder if I have if I go a whole month with like a net negative balance from people getting refunds for my apps
00:49:55 ◼ ► What does Apple do do they just do they come and collect that for me or do they just assume that I will have future?
00:50:01 ◼ ► Income from which they can subtract it because I'm not sure if that's entirely the case any cues up at your door
00:50:13 ◼ ► As far as I know I don't think that would be possible because again like I think you can only get a refund
00:50:21 ◼ ► So I I don't think it would be reasonably possible for you to actually have like a negative sales statement
00:50:28 ◼ ► Yeah, I mean like the day's income may be negative but like a previous day was positive and it's just you know, right?
00:50:41 ◼ ► Read the descriptions. I try really hard in the descriptions to explain every like literally everything they do
00:50:52 ◼ ► People have all these fantasies about what my apps will do and I'm like, no doesn't do that
00:51:13 ◼ ► We have good news for people who are old and or blind which I think basically covers all three of us
00:51:30 ◼ ► Application which is very very cool. This is fantastic. Like this is so this is another thing
00:51:39 ◼ ► It should be fairly straightforward for Apple and not involve potential for massive like Russian money laundering at scale
00:51:52 ◼ ► Can you add you know feature X that would allow me to override some system preference just for your app?
00:52:00 ◼ ► It could be rotation. It could be dark mode. It could be font size. Those are like the three big ones
00:52:06 ◼ ► that's why so many apps have options in their setting screens that for like rotation lock of just this app or
00:52:12 ◼ ► Override dark mode with your theme override light mode with a dark theme because it's a very common request and font size is one of those
00:52:18 ◼ ► Things so to have a feature built into the system where people can now adjust the font size for your app
00:52:26 ◼ ► Removes the need for lots of those features to exist and gives people who want to customize or need to customize the font size
00:52:32 ◼ ► Way more control over exactly how and when that happens. So this is great. Does anyone know where this UI comes from?
00:52:39 ◼ ► I just have the screenshot here, but I don't know it does look like a control center you same this looks
00:52:43 ◼ ► This looks like control center to me, but I don't know and the device that I have the beta on is downstairs
00:52:48 ◼ ► So if you really care I can run and get it. But yeah, I put a iOS 15 beta on my iPad. Oh, that's true
00:52:57 ◼ ► Hold on like I was like, it seems like it's stable enough and I don't really care that much on my iPad
00:53:01 ◼ ► The one thing I wanted to play with was like so far on the iPad. That's why I put it on
00:53:11 ◼ ► Anyway, the tab where the address whatever the active tab with the with the web address in it
00:53:16 ◼ ► Anytime I tried to put the insertion point into that text field Safari immediately crashes
00:53:27 ◼ ► But I will continue to look into it as it hopefully improves. So I'm on my iPad, which is
00:53:33 ◼ ► You know the 2018 13 inch and it's on the beta and I go into settings control center and I can add
00:53:43 ◼ ► So I'm doing this live while we're all listening and then I went into fantastical and I see
00:53:48 ◼ ► Yeah, I can change the text size and fantastical which is you know, not it's the shipping version of fantastical
00:53:55 ◼ ► So that's kind of a weird UI because I think of the control center as a global thing and for people who aren't looking at
00:54:04 ◼ ► Like the volume slider kind of with the big version and then at the bottom and has a little slider that says
00:54:13 ◼ ► Yeah, it's global you're changing the text size for the whole OS just like you would do in settings
00:54:23 ◼ ► Is there anything else in control center that applies to the active app and not to like not globally?
00:54:35 ◼ ► But it is kind of weird to think that that the control center now has a context now has like an implied target
00:54:42 ◼ ► Right. The implied target is the app you're currently using it. They try to make it clear with UI
00:54:49 ◼ ► I'm not sure where else you would do this except for burying it and setting somewhere which no one would ever find
00:55:03 ◼ ► Text size for the whole OS is kind of a big commitment and not every app deals with text size changes that much
00:55:15 ◼ ► Generally too small by default on this app to really be able to crank it up in that app without screwing up all your other
00:55:28 ◼ ► Because this is something that that I need especially if I don't have my contacts in I'm freaking blind
00:55:43 ◼ ► I have a six position slider, which is a little different than what you see in the screenshot
00:56:01 ◼ ► So even Apple has instances where they haven't quite accounted for the biggest possible text size because it is
00:56:19 ◼ ► Tell me how this works. I mean it works the way that we had discussed is like, you know if
00:56:28 ◼ ► Authenticate with just the Apple TV. You need some other device where you can essentially say. Oh, it's totally me here
00:56:39 ◼ ► Presumably your Apple TV is signed into the same Apple ID and would have access to your iCloud keychain
00:56:47 ◼ ► The phone and the iPad for that but now it is, you know, aside from you just using your phone as a remote, right?
00:57:03 ◼ ► I approve on my phone therefore let me in and hopefully that will further streamline the sign-in I
00:57:11 ◼ ► Technical explanation for why the Apple TV can't just do this on its own and but I didn't write down
00:57:19 ◼ ► It's because there's no sort of way to authenticate yourself on the Apple TV. Like for example when you turn on your television
00:57:26 ◼ ► You don't have to constantly sort of unlock your Apple TV or sign into it like you would with a laptop or a Mac or something
00:57:31 ◼ ► Like that like the Apple TV once you enter your your Apple ID and everything is like perpetually unlocked
00:57:36 ◼ ► I know there's a setting for like don't allow purchases after 15 minutes after entering your password a bunch of stuff like that
00:57:53 ◼ ► Without another device somewhere else that has higher security confirming it like a watch or a phone or an iPhone or you know
00:58:00 ◼ ► iPad or whatever. It just seems like something Apple is not quite ready to do but they did apparently make it better with TV
00:58:09 ◼ ► but if it if it saves me even if it just saves me having to enter a text field and do the password completion there if
00:58:17 ◼ ► Stare at my phone or have it, you know or do watch unlock like the watch works run locking a Mac
00:58:24 ◼ ► Hey next time I buy another Apple TV for some inexplicable reason because we all just keep buying every new one that they put out
00:58:31 ◼ ► We are sponsored this week by Linode my favorite place to run servers whether you're working on a personal project or managing enterprise
00:58:41 ◼ ► Infrastructure you deserve simple affordable and accessible cloud computing solutions that allow you to take your project to the next level
00:58:48 ◼ ► Simplify your cloud infrastructure with Linodes Linux virtual machines and develop deploy and scale your modern applications faster and easier
00:58:56 ◼ ► You can get started today on Linode with a hundred dollars in free credit at Linode com
00:59:02 ◼ ► ATP or by texting ATP to four seven four seven four seven get instant access to a hundred dollars in free credit
00:59:13 ◼ ► I've run a lot of servers in a lot of places in my career so far and I've been with Linode the longest because
00:59:21 ◼ ► I haven't seen anybody better than them in probably 10 years because they have not only great capabilities and great services
00:59:29 ◼ ► You know, no matter what you need, you know, you can put your Linode virtual machines and 11 global data centers
00:59:36 ◼ ► They have other services like an s3 compatible object storage managed Kubernetes so much more
00:59:41 ◼ ► all sorts of different resource levels and specialty plans depending on what your needs might be and
00:59:49 ◼ ► They have amazing price and you get so much for your money at Linode and as technology moves forward and they're able to offer
00:59:54 ◼ ► More for the same amount of money or less they do so that they've kept me happy for all this time
01:00:00 ◼ ► I really I host all my servers there and I'm very very happy there. So visit Linode com slash ATP
01:00:06 ◼ ► To see for yourself click that create free account button to get started or text ATP to four seven four seven four seven
01:00:31 ◼ ► I'm curious if any of you have cut the cord or if you still have cable classic cable or one of the
01:00:35 ◼ ► What is OTT over the over the top? I believe over the tear. Oh, thanks supposed to be over the air
01:00:56 ◼ ► Honest with you, but but no I still the cable plan and I we use it enough that I'm not actively
01:01:18 ◼ ► By the time you piecemeal all the different things to get all the shows you want you end up basically at a cable plan anyway
01:01:35 ◼ ► Which uses TV everywhere? I think it's called in order to be able to consume it as well
01:01:44 ◼ ► Boat is me. Is that right? Yeah, I still pay for like all the channels and a regular cable thing
01:01:50 ◼ ► I still have multiple TVO's in the house. They have cable cards. They record things off of the television
01:01:56 ◼ ► I kind of you know similar situation to Casey and that like occasionally I look at it and say could we drop cable and just
01:02:04 ◼ ► I mean, maybe it's slightly different in that I already pay for like so many streaming services
01:02:07 ◼ ► But it would probably not save me that much money due to the big bundle that I get with my internet and telephone and everything
01:02:21 ◼ ► But and still we are still using the TVO's right do we I do watch tons of stuff on streaming
01:02:30 ◼ ► Streaming centric my viewing is now because sometimes I forget to set up the TVO to record a thing and then I realize I don't have
01:02:42 ◼ ► But I did the you know the show aired and I could have recorded it, but I didn't but it's not on any streaming yet
01:02:48 ◼ ► And but if I didn't have cable at all I would have no chance of seeing that because sometimes they're you know
01:02:58 ◼ ► Hulu has a TV thing like you don't have to pay for a traditional cable to get sort of broadcast television
01:03:11 ◼ ► I pay for HBO like playing old-fashioned tape cable HBO. It means I get HBO max quote-unquote for free
01:03:17 ◼ ► Because it's part of my cable channel same thing with like when I'm looking for something on streaming
01:03:31 ◼ ► So I go to the epics app and it says hey sign in with your cable provider and I do and I've got epics like
01:03:37 ◼ ► But I have all the channels and very often by having all the channels with plain old-fashioned cable
01:03:45 ◼ ► So I've still got the cable and I like it and by the way the cord cutting thing is such it's like
01:03:50 ◼ ► Mechanical keyboard right or doing something in hardware versus software, right? It's a nonsensical phrase if you think about it
01:03:56 ◼ ► I'm gonna cut the cord only do stuff over the internet which comes to my house probably through a cord
01:04:01 ◼ ► But it's not the same corpus. Oh, maybe it is the same but still it's not the same thing
01:04:18 ◼ ► Cutting cutting the cord so you can then use a different cord or the same cord, but it's not anyway
01:04:39 ◼ ► Ks you cut the cord and canceled cable every single one of those words in front of it. I think it was 15 years ago
01:04:46 ◼ ► Because I the thing is like what keeps people on cable longer like even people who are nerds
01:04:58 ◼ ► You are super into sports and I'm neither of those things. I watch some TV and no sports no live news
01:05:11 ◼ ► Substantially less television than the average American most likely. Yeah, I think it's substantially then not just less in terms of hours spent
01:05:22 ◼ ► Yeah, and and you know, one of the things is that you know, there's so much stuff on Netflix and and
01:05:34 ◼ ► The HBO thing and the ad free Hulu thing between all those. I mean, they're so oh, well
01:05:39 ◼ ► I guess we also have Amazon Prime Video because everyone has Amazon Prime Video accidentally
01:05:55 ◼ ► TV like over-the-air TV or cable TV like in a hotel or something or when like at me, you know at family houses or whatever
01:06:13 ◼ ► Option because you still have to deal with the commercials and you could fast-forward through them
01:06:17 ◼ ► But you don't see you don't see the commercials like that experience you described that's exactly why people got TiVo's
01:06:25 ◼ ► 2003 or whenever the hell I got my first TiVo like I haven't seen broadcast television with commercials
01:06:31 ◼ ► Like the only time I ever see it is the Super Bowl and then I'm the only that watch the commercials
01:06:37 ◼ ► There's a single is a single button press like literally a single button press you just press the button it jumps to the end
01:06:42 ◼ ► Of the car. Why do they make you press that button instead of doing it on my I don't know
01:06:45 ◼ ► They're afraid of getting sued. But anyway, it's down to a single button press. No, that's still too much for me
01:06:52 ◼ ► It's way better than like if I if I am doomed to watch something on a streaming service that either
01:06:57 ◼ ► Doesn't have a way for you to give them money to get rid of the commercials or you don't feel like giving the money to
01:07:05 ◼ ► Commercials on a streaming service that makes me beg for my little green button on my TiVo remote, please
01:07:12 ◼ ► I literally won't watch a show if that's the only reason if that's the only way I can watch it
01:07:20 ◼ ► That's why like I didn't have Hulu until relatively recently when they launched a like truly ad free thing because I
01:07:29 ◼ ► Well, I don't care how good people say the show is if that's what I have to do to watch it. I won't watch it
01:07:33 ◼ ► Yeah, I know Hulu has some other kind of like broadcast television thing or whatever, but whatever Hulu I'm paying for
01:07:39 ◼ ► It never has commercials, but I don't think I'm paying for the one where people try to use Hulu to replace cable
01:08:02 ◼ ► speaking of streaming services and cable television despite me having just said that I subscribe to million
01:08:14 ◼ ► Recently experienced something very frustrating which I'm sure is very familiar for people who live outside the US which is that there's a thing
01:08:27 ◼ ► Region or like right so I don't even understand the reason but like I was unable to watch this. So this is
01:08:45 ◼ ► But you know the covert you really screwed everything up. But whenever the first season aired I watched him like oh, that was cute
01:08:48 ◼ ► I wonder if there will be a season 2 well, there is a season 2 and it was just released and according to everything
01:08:55 ◼ ► It was released all at once in a big dump on a French streaming service and it was also released
01:09:13 ◼ ► No, they dropped this whole season all like 10 episodes there. They were available since May 24th
01:09:23 ◼ ► It's not it's in English for the most part. There's some French subtitles on part. But anyway, like it's a show with like
01:09:33 ◼ ► A foreign program where I'm trying to like get their content or whatever seems like a show that's made for me
01:09:41 ◼ ► For me to see the things that everyone in the rest of the world was able to see apparently in its entirety on March 24th
01:09:47 ◼ ► All right on March. It was May 24th or whatever. So I'm sitting here waiting around because some
01:09:52 ◼ ► Local television stations are getting episodes like two episodes every week or something
01:10:01 ◼ ► It feels terrible. I can feel when when the shows are released one, you know at a time like an Apple TV+
01:10:14 ◼ ► I feel like the whole rest of the world has seen it and I'm just sitting around here like schlub waiting for
01:10:21 ◼ ► I'm totally willing to give people money, but apparently that it's not possible and it's frustrating
01:10:40 ◼ ► For me I am using the keyboard that came with the iMac Pro which is the space gray or black or what-have-you
01:10:52 ◼ ► I don't use numeric keypad that often and I could make a strong argument with myself to get the
01:11:01 ◼ ► This is what I've been using and I quite like it both aesthetically and the feel of it as I've been saying for years and years
01:11:09 ◼ ► I have not yet gotten to the point of getting like the cherry taster pack or whatever. It's called sample pack
01:11:16 ◼ ► It's for tasting. Yeah, it's for tasting because I know if I do I'm gonna turn into an imposter Mike Hurley
01:11:24 ◼ ► Marco let's let's start with you since you were more to continue with you since you were mentioned. Are you using the sculpt still? I
01:11:50 ◼ ► Was it a pair of pants? Yes as the Microsoft sculpt ergonomic keyboard and not the surface keyboard
01:11:58 ◼ ► I've tried it believe me although all the various like super like boutique II custom ones the ones with those giant wooden
01:12:06 ◼ ► Rests I've tried all them the Logitech one everything. I've tried them all and the sculpt ergonomic keyboard is
01:12:32 ◼ ► So I just have like four spares. It's your cheese grater. It's got a design flaw breaks, but you really like it
01:12:38 ◼ ► So you bought a bunch of them it is there's there are a couple of tips I can give you number one
01:12:45 ◼ ► Don't violate the big box set for a hundred bucks. It has the mouse you get to keep throwing away
01:13:03 ◼ ► And Amazon sells that you can get it so and it only has the keyboard and the little numpad that I keep throwing away
01:13:12 ◼ ► And it's you know less packaging less waste so when it dies you can get this one for less money than the whole set
01:13:20 ◼ ► And I just consider it a cost of doing business that I have to you know use a new 60-ish dollar keyboard
01:13:36 ◼ ► Like things like dropped keys or like lag while typing and you might think replace the batteries
01:13:42 ◼ ► It usually doesn't do it because how you know it's like if replacing the batteries still makes it flake out
01:13:53 ◼ ► And so it's and it's it's not Bluetooth. It's one of those ones that has a little USB transceiver thing
01:14:23 ◼ ► You know feet it is between you and the back of your computer where the USB thing is plugged in
01:14:29 ◼ ► It makes it much more reliable and you might be able to get a little more time out of one
01:14:43 ◼ ► And I love the little Logitech things because their signal works from like across the room
01:14:46 ◼ ► So I have the opposite experience. You people I hear people pooping all over Bluetooth all the time for like keyboards and mice and stuff
01:14:53 ◼ ► I guess I'm an a CEC and a Bluetooth unicorn because I have never had those kinds of issues with Bluetooth and the idea of
01:15:03 ◼ ► Disgusting to me. So I am I am sad for you that you have not been able to live the glorious Bluetooth life that I have
01:15:14 ◼ ► I still use a Apple magic trackpad on the left and an Apple magic mouse on the right and
01:15:27 ◼ ► But was never really good even on the Intel's and this is like using Apple's hardware paired with Apple's computer and Apple's OS
01:15:36 ◼ ► Like it should be it should be perfect and I still have like Bluetooth flake outs which feel like a software issue
01:15:42 ◼ ► But still regardless of whose fault it is. It's an issue that is constant with Bluetooth peripherals and
01:15:53 ◼ ► So I used to I use the Apple extended keyboard for most of my life after the introduction of that keyboard
01:16:00 ◼ ► But then RSI made me switch off to a keyboard that is easier to press the keys on that requires less force
01:16:10 ◼ ► RSI and health said you need a keyboard with extra keys. And so I eventually switched to Apple's
01:16:17 ◼ ► Sort of slim aluminum line of keyboards that have changed over the years in subtle ways. I always use the extended one
01:16:26 ◼ ► Reminded of how much I rely on the numpad every time I'm booted into Windows doing something I start typing numbers into a web form
01:16:33 ◼ ► Num lock isn't on because if there was a good article like you know house how long ago like where did num lock come from?
01:16:44 ◼ ► It's like a 50 year old decision that Windows users continue to suffer with much like drive letters
01:16:56 ◼ ► Probably like this is speculative because I've never actually done it probably if I could get one that still had
01:17:13 ◼ ► You know a just every single one of the arrow keys is completely full-sized that people are just begging on their laptops
01:17:19 ◼ ► Obviously, we're just a market space-constrained environment to get the left and right keys to be half-sized so you can feel for them
01:17:24 ◼ ► Guess what? I can feel for them and they're all full-sized. This is the ultimate luxury
01:17:33 ◼ ► But like I said, then I'm is actually kind of cool when you're good at entering numbers with it
01:17:37 ◼ ► I mean half the time I feel like I'm actually and when entering is like two-factor codes and stuff
01:17:41 ◼ ► The numpad is actually kind of great. But yeah arrow keys in hominin. So what am I actually using now?
01:17:45 ◼ ► Pretty much as I continued to buy Mac computers every time they came with one of those slim aluminum ones
01:17:51 ◼ ► I would just rotate like my previous slim aluminum one for the new one and they changed in
01:17:58 ◼ ► I'm currently using the keyboard that came with my Mac Pro which I believe is the same keyboard that the case he was talking about
01:18:21 ◼ ► One of them was the one I use at work for like eight years and the D key started to fail and I feel like that
01:18:32 ◼ ► And that's why I have the spares up in the attic because I stopped using them if I get a new one
01:18:46 ◼ ► But it's also far away from my mouse and keyboard and you know, it doesn't glitch out wired USB
01:18:57 ◼ ► So this is probably gonna take us a minute Lewis O'Neill wrote a long time ago and then things keep happening
01:19:02 ◼ ► But Lewis wrote Tim Cook said in a recent interview that allowing sideloading would destroy the iPhone security and privacy measures
01:19:22 ◼ ► There's kind of a lot to unpack there. But in short like what's the deal with sideloading?
01:19:28 ◼ ► Anyway, I think this topic was sideloaded into SK TV. Yeah, I think you're right actually
01:19:38 ◼ ► What here's how the world would end if we allowed sideloading and there's lots of people commenting on it and so on and so forth
01:19:58 ◼ ► that glosses over technical nuances that seemingly no one involved in the court cases or
01:20:05 ◼ ► The the government proceedings knows enough to challenge them on but that every single technical person who looks at apples
01:20:19 ◼ ► You're kind of lumping everything into one big ball of mud, but we know like between us technical people that these are
01:20:26 ◼ ► Separable things and just because you like to think of them as a big hole doesn't mean they are a big hole
01:20:35 ◼ ► this has become a big story recently a bunch of people have been writing about it and tweeting about it and
01:20:39 ◼ ► Again, Apple has put out this PDF that you can look at this paints this picture of what Apple's doing and why?
01:20:46 ◼ ► But I think the nuances are worth getting into so just to be clear to start the side loading means
01:21:01 ◼ ► If you're a developer, you can build your own app and stick it on there test flight betas enterprise certificates
01:21:06 ◼ ► there's a bunch of places that qualify for that but really what we're talking about is like a
01:21:10 ◼ ► Regular person who's not a developer who's not on a beta who's not getting apps pushing them from an enterprise certificate
01:21:19 ◼ ► You should try it out and you tell your friend and they can go get it and that app comes from someplace other than
01:21:27 ◼ ► It's apocalyptic thing that will destroy the universe and destroy Apple's business and destroy customers confidence and so on and so forth
01:21:35 ◼ ► You know, what would be the harm in sideloading like if you don't want to side load don't side load
01:21:42 ◼ ► What would be what would be detrimental to users who wouldn't side load if other people were allowed to like how does?
01:21:54 ◼ ► Because an Apple kind of makes this argument, but they spend a lot of time making a bunch of bogus arguments
01:22:09 ◼ ► It'll have viruses or there'll be scams and bubbly, you know, there's all these things you can look at and say, okay
01:22:17 ◼ ► You'd still be subject sandboxing you can get all these sort of technical arguments, but here's here's what I think
01:22:35 ◼ ► This is the scenario that I think would pray out play out pretty quickly. All you need is one app
01:22:41 ◼ ► That is desirable to a large number of people. Let's say fortnight, but I know I don't want to pick for tonight
01:23:14 ◼ ► Suddenly people who had no interest in streaming service and maybe hate streaming services will say but everyone's talking about the show
01:23:24 ◼ ► I don't know what Netflix is but people keep talking about the show. So I'm gonna get it or
01:23:35 ◼ ► Is only available through sideloading to essentially bootstrap the entire world to a first approximation into?
01:23:43 ◼ ► Sideloading your thing and once they've side loaded your thing and have started bypassing the App Store
01:23:59 ◼ ► App developers essentially control how many people are going to be sideloading right because by creating a desirable app and then only
01:24:10 ◼ ► Require everyone to do whatever it takes to make their phone able to sideload this popular app
01:24:17 ◼ ► So for people who say sideloading it wouldn't be a big deal because not a lot of people would do it that I think is not
01:24:26 ◼ ► They would be behind in a million toggles or whatever but one popular app cracks that door open and once everyone's phones are able to
01:24:38 ◼ ► 2057 whatever the popular app is flappy birds like the you know it doesn't matter what it is Facebook imagine if it's Facebook
01:24:46 ◼ ► Once you've done that then you've essentially opened up everyone's phone to silent so what's what's the harm in sideloading what can possibly happen right?
01:25:06 ◼ ► One extra set of eyes on crap that goes on right because you could set you could there's a million protections in iOS
01:25:14 ◼ ► And you can leave every single one of those protections in sandboxing is in app has to be notarized by Apple
01:25:20 ◼ ► No private api's because Apple will scan them for like you can you can include every single restriction that exists in the App Store
01:25:40 ◼ ► But everything else that is protecting our phones would still be there, but the human oversight is not nothing right
01:25:46 ◼ ► It's terrible and that they say oh, yeah, we don't like your business model therefore you can't be on the store
01:25:50 ◼ ► That's why people want sideloading. That's why Apple is dumb to be fighting this fight alright, but it is actually a thing and
01:26:00 ◼ ► Means that because the sideloading door has been opened by fortnight or Facebook or flappy bird or whatever that allows
01:26:11 ◼ ► We're not using private api's we don't break out of the sandbox, but we do present a user experience
01:26:18 ◼ ► That's filled with dark patterns and you know terrible things that would never get past a human being
01:26:28 ◼ ► Which is why we complain about it because it seems like we're getting the worst of all possible worlds
01:26:41 ◼ ► There is this rosy picture where sideloading would just be for the nerds and everyone else wouldn't have to
01:26:57 ◼ ► Quote-unquote benign reasons. Oh, I want a different business model like all the reasons
01:27:11 ◼ ► Now every possible app can flow through that door and even if every single one of those apps is just as safe as the current
01:27:22 ◼ ► That one fewer step is still one fewer step, and you know you give these people an inch, and they'll take a mile so
01:27:37 ◼ ► Protection will go by the wayside and won't be able to do everything and I feel like the actual reality is
01:27:45 ◼ ► Every single protection still there except for one and Apple doesn't make that case Apple makes the case that if you take away one
01:27:54 ◼ ► So I'm not trying to be funny, but I feel like I'm getting two different vibes from you
01:28:00 ◼ ► You're saying that Apple's PDF is garbage. You know maybe that's a bit extreme, but Apple's PDF is disingenuous and
01:28:11 ◼ ► I'm kind of doing the thing where like the people who are super optimistic about side loading
01:28:18 ◼ ► And it's not gonna be a big deal, and I think that is not the case so that's more towards Louis's question like saying
01:28:23 ◼ ► What's the big deal side loading if I side load? How does that hurt you like it's not realizing that?
01:28:28 ◼ ► The motivation to essentially get everyone in the world to jump through a million hoops to enable side loading will exist rapidly
01:28:40 ◼ ► That's bogus, but Apple's thing on the other hand of saying if you have side loading that means it's a free-for-all is
01:28:45 ◼ ► Obviously not true like it's not it's not the same as jailbreaking the Apple can still require
01:28:52 ◼ ► Notarization they can still scan for private AVI usage like you're just subtracting one step
01:29:00 ◼ ► Like oh you can't tell people your website exists. That's the step people get rid of that's oh
01:29:05 ◼ ► You can't use a third-party payment service right those are all technically possible within all the restrictions that I listed
01:29:15 ◼ ► Yes, there are apps in the App Store right now that collect your credit card right because they have physical goods right it's clear that
01:29:21 ◼ ► You can that you can comply with every single one of the App Store's restrictions except for that very last one where someone
01:29:48 ◼ ► Which it makes a lot of similar arguments to what John was just saying I thought that was pretty good
01:30:10 ◼ ► Because again like you know like what the John's were saying it's not like only nerds will do it there will be major apps
01:30:18 ◼ ► Instantly that that just want to be out of the App Store process that will just bail out like you know Facebook Netflix
01:30:33 ◼ ► And that'll just become a norm and that introduces at that kind of scale that introduces potential for
01:30:57 ◼ ► And and all their weird like studies and PR BSC statements and with their terrible testimony that they gave during epics trial
01:31:27 ◼ ► That if they give up their in-app purchase requirement, they would have to start charging me to use their API's
01:31:31 ◼ ► Which I thought was funny. What like it's like well, did they do that on the Mac? That's weird anyway
01:31:42 ◼ ► The Mac is already this way that they say is impossible slash would bankrupt them slash would become a virus written hellscape
01:32:00 ◼ ► Apple deserves to all this money for themselves and how are they gonna pay for themselves again?
01:32:05 ◼ ► I'm sure they're gonna have trouble for all those people out there who jump to that defense. I ask you to consider
01:32:37 ◼ ► These are not the people we want to make massive controlling decisions about our little world of tech over here
01:32:45 ◼ ► We've grown and we've been great and we've had a wonderful time in this little world over here of tech
01:32:51 ◼ ► mostly because we move too quickly for all those ignorant dinosaurs to interfere with us if
01:33:07 ◼ ► Why if you like the way Apple does things if you like the way the tech business does things?
01:33:31 ◼ ► And and I think it says a lot that people like Ben Thompson and John Gruber are making this case as well like
01:33:52 ◼ ► Interfere in a very big way with the way they make their products like that's that is strategically
01:34:04 ◼ ► We're looking back on like this era of Apple and we're trying to figure and people are enumerating like, you know
01:34:17 ◼ ► Massive strategic blunders that we're going to point to at this time in Apple history in the future
01:34:28 ◼ ► I think this is a massive strategic blunder for Apple to be holding on so tightly to their in-app purchase
01:34:33 ◼ ► Exclusivity and you know non-competition rules the anti-steering rules. They're holding on so tightly to that
01:34:41 ◼ ► Which is probably if they relax those rules might cost them a few percentage points of their service area
01:34:51 ◼ ► Kind of like playing chicken with with legislators and what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do?
01:35:03 ◼ ► Most of the stuff probably won't get through because we can't get a lot of things through these days
01:35:11 ◼ ► What if any of these bills get through like if any of these bills get through Apple has a problem and
01:35:28 ◼ ► They're gambling their own future ability to operate in basic ways that that they need to operate in
01:35:41 ◼ ► Like it's it seems like a gamble that is not worth taking and so if you are out there saying
01:35:57 ◼ ► You want them to do what it takes to relieve the regulatory pressure and get the government off their back?
01:36:36 ◼ ► Maybe if you if you have to carve out an exclusion to say our games can't do it, but everything else can
01:36:42 ◼ ► That's not great. But that that would also probably be enough to get most regulation off their back if you could just do that
01:36:54 ◼ ► crap that's all over Apple right now from regulators around the world mostly or entirely disappears and
01:37:08 ◼ ► to Apple like integrate like banning integration of their own stuff banning bundling of their own services you believe me we
01:37:20 ◼ ► You do not want those kind of laws to even be floated let alone to get anywhere near passing. So
01:37:42 ◼ ► Let people like Spotify and Netflix and Amazon link out to a payment method. That's not in their app
01:38:01 ◼ ► Do wonder if it is already too late like I think about like, you know, we've been saying this forever
01:38:07 ◼ ► It's like at a certain point once the ball starts rolling Apple says, you know, we changed your mind
01:38:11 ◼ ► You can use your own payment method people like that. Yeah, well too late. We're already kind of doing this thing here
01:38:17 ◼ ► It's like but no we're gonna be nicer. We're gonna do it's like yeah, but you don't understand
01:38:21 ◼ ► See we already kind of like we have things like drafted up and we're gonna like vote on them and stuff and we would have
01:38:27 ◼ ► To like sort of relitigate this whole thing and rediscuss it because of your last minute like now we're that what Apple I think
01:38:32 ◼ ► Really wants or is expecting they're like, okay if it looks like we're gonna lose this we will essentially
01:38:37 ◼ ► Come to the negotiating table and sort of plea bargain our way down to okay you if you don't pass these laws
01:38:52 ◼ ► No matter what Apple does for sort of reasonable fixes that just like it's a thing that's sort of you know
01:39:02 ◼ ► Our country is not particularly good at passing laws. Even when everyone in the country wants them
01:39:08 ◼ ► But it's not as popular as many other things that we're not able to get passed and there's always good old
01:39:11 ◼ ► Money in politics and corruption all the other things that can stop this from happening
01:39:24 ◼ ► And we are just going to press and press our case as hard as we possibly can and just assume that
01:39:29 ◼ ► We are too rich and powerful to be subject to your laws and then maybe they're right like, you know, Marco
01:39:36 ◼ ► But if they play this game of chicken and win it's gonna look genius right the you know, we stared it down
01:39:43 ◼ ► But the thing about giving setting aside like the current situation with these laws most of which I think have no chance of going
01:40:06 ◼ ► So if you mess with the money of other rich and powerful companies and people you find yourself in the situation
01:40:17 ◼ ► And if the answer is yes, those are the places where if Apple wants to not be forced to do sideloading or whatever
01:40:26 ◼ ► I'm messing with someone's money by taking 30% of all their in-app purchases. Oh, yeah, no, I'm messing with someone's money by telling them
01:40:32 ◼ ► You can't run that kind of business on the App Store because we don't like it. Yeah, you're messing with their money
01:40:42 ◼ ► We don't think that's the right fit for the App Store. So you just can't have an app like that period no any
01:40:49 ◼ ► It's just this whole category of app you feel like but you know, especially if you've already built that app
01:41:01 ◼ ► Apple will mess with your money not not at all but less much less. There will be less messing with your money
01:41:21 ◼ ► Is there some big company that's not able to make money or make as much money because of some rule that is essentially self-serving for Apple
01:41:30 ◼ ► So it's not as you know, if Apple wants to triage this and do sort of a plea bargain type deal
01:41:55 ◼ ► Especially if they carve out for games, which is like 85% of their in-app purchase revenue
01:42:02 ◼ ► Because of the how the whole rest of the game industry works the hits their income would be minuscule
01:42:10 ◼ ► Oh, and by the way on top of all that there's all this stuff that we've talked about for ages
01:42:13 ◼ ► Just like oh, yeah, and maybe it would be nice to buy Kindle books inside the Kindle app
01:42:21 ◼ ► but as a side effect customers would also get a better experience from using their phones because wouldn't it be great if on your
01:42:33 ◼ ► That's all these is high fluting reasons that we talk about like, oh, wouldn't that be better Apple?
01:42:37 ◼ ► Can't we appeal to their sense of like providing the user experience? That's not the right appeal
01:42:46 ◼ ► You know dot dot dot now you know you're facing congressional, you know possible congressional action
01:42:53 ◼ ► there's a bunch of things in those dot dots, but basically Apple has messed with the money of too many rich and powerful people for too long and
01:43:06 ◼ ► Elected slash bought representatives to the point where now there are some very terrifying laws coming down
01:43:12 ◼ ► Which I agree with Marco if you look at a lot of these they have a at best you could say a utopian view
01:43:20 ◼ ► Restricting Apple from doing the things that Apple does which is integrating hardware software and services in a way that quote-unquote only Apple can do
01:43:34 ◼ ► Intergenerational parts and companies can compete on those parts and like wasn't it great when like
01:43:42 ◼ ► Everyone sort of stayed in their lane and Google was good at doing maps and Apple was good at doing
01:43:50 ◼ ► But that's not the way the world works. It will never work that way eventually Google made its own phone and Apple made
01:43:56 ◼ ► It's on maps and you know like everyone wants to do everything right and I understand the laws thinking like well if we had laws
01:44:01 ◼ ► Against that that wouldn't happen if the OS vendor wasn't allowed to have a music service
01:44:07 ◼ ► Bend it the OS vendor would benefit from making it the best OS for you to plug in your music service and that'd be general
01:44:19 ◼ ► You know every music service could have the same integration that Apple music has today wouldn't that be great?
01:44:24 ◼ ► It would be but I think history has shown that never actually happens like even with laws to try to make it happen
01:44:32 ◼ ► There's always deals and preferred vendors and things you can do with API's within the letter of the law that are perfectly legal
01:44:45 ◼ ► understand that the vision that they're going for but the laws as written it implemented would
01:44:51 ◼ ► Certainly destroy the good we have now and I think would not be successful in replacing it with
01:44:58 ◼ ► it's not the same as open doc but it's a similar type of thing that if you describe it it sounds like a great thing from
01:45:08 ◼ ► Open doc didn't work for the same reason these schemes won't work is that it's not it's not in human nature
01:45:17 ◼ ► It's not a human nature for for the companies to give up power that they have and if it's taken from them
01:45:23 ◼ ► Let's be great citizens and make a super open platform where everyone plugs in they'll just find new ways to
01:45:36 ◼ ► Memberful and made in and thank you to our members who support us directly you can join at ATP that FM slash join
01:47:00 ◼ ► We haven't spoken about your I almost said emulation, but god forbid it was it is not emulation
01:47:06 ◼ ► We haven't spoken about your adventures in old video games in a while. Yeah, I recently I played through it over the last couple days
01:47:19 ◼ ► Tasmania like the Tasmanian devil yes, yes. It was one of those like annoyingly like, you know cheap licensed things
01:47:30 ◼ ► It like so Tiff has this game on her phone that I think it's called like super trap world or something like that
01:47:38 ◼ ► And there's this whole genre of games. I forget what it's called, but it's like something core
01:47:50 ◼ ► like just like comically frustrating like you jump on a platform and it just like falls over and then like something else comes in button crushes
01:48:03 ◼ ► memorize what's going to happen and just plow through until you can actually get past like, you know, the very first level and
01:48:19 ◼ ► You're just going to die because you had you had no way to possibly know that that would happen
01:48:24 ◼ ► Nothing indicated this would happen or you have to like you to take a blind jump and not even see what you're jumping
01:48:30 ◼ ► Toward and just hope there's something there and then the first three times you do it you'd fall and die because you don't know where
01:48:45 ◼ ► But I know this wasn't the first one. I'm sure that people will talk about like pitfalls stuff like that, but
01:48:53 ◼ ► people often talk about how games have become easier over time and certainly they become less tedious with things like
01:49:04 ◼ ► Beat the entire game in one sitting like you did with the old consoles didn't have battery backup or anything like that
01:49:19 ◼ ► They're just like you just yeah again you like you you just jump and you just land somewhere. Oh, you're dead
01:49:25 ◼ ► Laughed my ass off like in the minecart level which is like one of the great minecart levels in video game history
01:49:43 ◼ ► Just trying to like just memorize the order of things that you have to do in the minecart level to get through it
01:50:00 ◼ ► Watching a YouTube video on this game looks terrible. Everyone should just play battle toads. I
01:50:29 ◼ ► Instant death platformer of the era plays like that's everything Marco said about it. I'm sure it's true, but aesthetically it's kind of like
01:50:38 ◼ ► Var is elegant beautiful. Oh, I wouldn't say either of those things you download the Mac version and play it
01:50:49 ◼ ► Licensed Genesis games. This was not the only one I owned. I also owned cool spot. Oh, is that seven up?
01:51:09 ◼ ► Like if you if you had a sort of a if you had to white label like a you know a thing for laundry detergent
01:51:16 ◼ ► That's really hard and you're just gonna put the laundry detergent as the main character and you're done
01:51:26 ◼ ► Cool spot is kind of whimsical in a lot of the ways like because you're playing as like a miniature
01:51:32 ◼ ► like the scale of everything like you're kind of like you're playing as the spot character who's
01:51:37 ◼ ► Basically the size of like it's kind of Vegas to whether it's the size of like a bug or like a dog
01:51:43 ◼ ► It's I think it kind of very different levels a big difference there. Yeah, they're not super consistent and like they're scaling
01:52:00 ◼ ► Comically frustrating jumping puzzles where like you just keep jumping and jumping and you eventually fall down level have to start all the way
01:52:15 ◼ ► But it's a little bit whimsical and the guy's so cute the little spot. He's really cute
01:52:26 ◼ ► It's a similar type of thing, but there's so much more to the game than that and the on the 3d side of it
01:52:31 ◼ ► There's the the quote-unquote Souls games like, you know popularized by Dark Souls where it's a 3d third-person
01:52:40 ◼ ► But also has a similar type of you can imagine a 3d version of that where you're gonna face a boss and they will kill
01:53:03 ◼ ► cautiously and have a strategy and learn how to do them in the same way that you would be in Tasmania where like before you
01:53:08 ◼ ► Go into the level you have no idea what's gonna kill you and anything can kill you and eventually you figure out okay
01:53:16 ◼ ► third-person 3d sort of medieval people with swords and giant monster settings and those games are very popular because they're moody and
01:53:28 ◼ ► And you know things like Celeste where there's so much more to the game than the platforming
01:53:32 ◼ ► But also it's that kind of platforming and even before that there's the bullet hell games
01:53:38 ◼ ► Spaceship a million bullets coming at you and those just ramped up to an absurd level where you know
01:53:44 ◼ ► It seems like there's no way anyone could possibly survive this but eventually you figure out how to weave your way through the I was thinking
01:53:54 ◼ ► Progressive, but maybe also Campbell, you know the soup where you get the little dots of pasta, right?
01:54:00 ◼ ► Like it's not noodles, it's not it's it's not chicken noodles. It's like orzo. No, it was always those oval right actual circular
01:54:10 ◼ ► Little dots of pasta. Yeah, I know they'll almost like tapioca beads but pasta version. Yeah, exactly, right
01:54:18 ◼ ► I think all the bullets look like those little things in the soup because the another the soup that little red around them
01:54:22 ◼ ► It was like a tomato a soup. It's just like these tiny little beads of pasta coming at you and spraying in all directions