ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► - We don't have, there's no pre-show anywhere.

00:00:02 ◼   ► I can't make anything out of this.

00:00:04 ◼   ► - Why?

00:00:05 ◼   ► No, you absolutely can't.

00:00:06 ◼   ► - I think you're just revealing that your ferry service

00:00:08 ◼   ► is just slightly more distant.

00:00:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's the point.

00:00:11 ◼   ► - It's plenty of a pre-show,

00:00:12 ◼   ► 'cause I have no idea about that.

00:00:13 ◼   ► And I'm just angry at how worried it was for you trapped.

00:00:17 ◼   ► It's just--

00:00:18 ◼   ► - So much hardship has been stolen.

00:00:19 ◼   ► (electronic beeping)

00:00:21 ◼   ► All right, let's move on.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Let's start with some follow-up.

00:00:23 ◼   ► And it's everyone, who knows what the pre-show was?

00:00:26 ◼   ► We don't, and we just recorded it extensively.

00:00:29 ◼   ► But we're gonna start with some follow up.

00:00:30 ◼   ► Andrew Wade said, "Hey, Marco said the nice thing

00:00:33 ◼   ► "about the iPad Pro versus the Air was that

00:00:35 ◼   ► "the Pro had stereo speakers while the Air did not."

00:00:37 ◼   ► I thought he was right, but that changed

00:00:39 ◼   ► when the Air had its square sides upgrade

00:00:41 ◼   ► and from the spec sheet, you can see that it clearly

00:00:44 ◼   ► labels speakers on the top, or speaker, or speakers,

00:00:47 ◼   ► I think speakers on the top and on the bottom.

00:00:50 ◼   ► - Yep, I was totally wrong about this.

00:00:51 ◼   ► Yeah, the iPad Air used to have just one speaker.

00:00:53 ◼   ► The only way to get, like if, so what I want

00:00:56 ◼   ► out of an iPad is when you hold it in landscape,

00:00:59 ◼   ► which I think is really the default iPad orientation

00:01:02 ◼   ► for most people.

00:01:03 ◼   ► When you hold it in landscape,

00:01:05 ◼   ► you want a speaker on the left and speaker on the right.

00:01:06 ◼   ► And I thought only the iPad Pro line offered that,

00:01:09 ◼   ► 'cause it used to only be the Pro line that offered that.

00:01:11 ◼   ► But yeah, turns out I was wrong.

00:01:12 ◼   ► Thanks Andrew Wade for pointing out that the Air,

00:01:15 ◼   ► when it went to USB-C in the square sides,

00:01:16 ◼   ► it switched over to a speaker on top and speaker on bottom.

00:01:19 ◼   ► Now the Pro has four speakers.

00:01:23 ◼   ► It basically has like, you know, kind of one per corner,

00:01:25 ◼   ► although they're on the short sides only.

00:01:26 ◼   ► but so that way like the Pro can do stereo left right sound

00:01:30 ◼   ► no matter what orientation you're holding it in,

00:01:32 ◼   ► whereas the Air can only do left right separation

00:01:34 ◼   ► in landscape, but either way,

00:01:36 ◼   ► you know when you compare the specs,

00:01:38 ◼   ► and I did this a little bit on last show,

00:01:40 ◼   ► but like so it came time to choose like you know

00:01:43 ◼   ► what should our next iPad for our kid be.

00:01:47 ◼   ► I went through everything and went with the iPad Pro,

00:01:51 ◼   ► actually the 11 inch iPad Pro,

00:01:52 ◼   ► because when you compare, I mean everyone's doing this

00:01:55 ◼   ► 'cause I think the Air embargo dropped this morning

00:01:57 ◼   ► or something, but you look at the new Air,

00:02:00 ◼   ► the distance between the Air and the Pro

00:02:02 ◼   ► is very, very small.

00:02:04 ◼   ► There is very little difference between them right now.

00:02:07 ◼   ► And maybe that'll change, you know,

00:02:08 ◼   ► the Pro is probably due for an update

00:02:10 ◼   ► like later this year maybe, so maybe that'll change

00:02:13 ◼   ► when the Pro gets updated, but for right now,

00:02:15 ◼   ► the gap between them in both specs and features

00:02:20 ◼   ► and price is very small.

00:02:23 ◼   ► 'cause we're not gonna get just the 64 gig.

00:02:26 ◼   ► Like, you know, there's a lot of video capture going on,

00:02:29 ◼   ► you know, capturing videos and photos

00:02:32 ◼   ► and recording games, stuff like that.

00:02:34 ◼   ► So like, we get 'em, you know,

00:02:36 ◼   ► I think we usually go with 256

00:02:37 ◼   ► for our configurations for him recently.

00:02:40 ◼   ► And so, when you compare the prices of 256

00:02:44 ◼   ► versus Air and Pro, the difference is not big.

00:02:47 ◼   ► It's like 150 bucks.

00:02:48 ◼   ► And so, what you do get with the Pro,

00:02:51 ◼   ► again, it's not significant anymore

00:02:52 ◼   ► depending on what you're doing.

00:02:53 ◼   ► But what you get, in short, Thunderbolt instead of USB-C,

00:02:56 ◼   ► so connectivity for certain types of peripherals

00:02:59 ◼   ► and monitors, that's probably never gonna be used here,

00:03:01 ◼   ► but just worth putting out.

00:03:03 ◼   ► You get four speakers instead of two,

00:03:05 ◼   ► okay, a little bit better.

00:03:07 ◼   ► You get the wide angle camera and the LiDAR sensor,

00:03:09 ◼   ► so it's a two camera array with LiDAR, and a flash.

00:03:14 ◼   ► Whereas the Air, I believe, has no flash

00:03:16 ◼   ► and it's just the one camera.

00:03:17 ◼   ► And then the big one, I think, or the big two are Face ID

00:03:21 ◼   ► and 120 hertz promotion.

00:03:24 ◼   ► And that's about it.

00:03:26 ◼   ► There's not a lot of other differences,

00:03:28 ◼   ► but Face ID also brings more advanced front camera stuff.

00:03:32 ◼   ► You could do the portrait mode on the front camera and stuff.

00:03:34 ◼   ► So there's that kind of stuff.

00:03:35 ◼   ► So it's not, what you get between the Pro and Air

00:03:38 ◼   ► is not nothing, but it's not a lot.

00:03:41 ◼   ► But the price difference is also not a lot

00:03:43 ◼   ► when you compare spec for spec.

00:03:45 ◼   ► So went with Pro.

00:03:47 ◼   ► We'll see if I regret that, I probably won't.

00:03:49 ◼   ► Oh, and the other downside is the Pro

00:03:50 ◼   ► only comes in boring colors.

00:03:52 ◼   ► Whereas the Air comes in colors that were interesting

00:03:57 ◼   ► before they were diluted so much to be more muted

00:04:00 ◼   ► and tamed to fit the aluminum.

00:04:02 ◼   ► - John, tell me about the MacStudio HDMI port.

00:04:05 ◼   ► - It's still 2.0, surprise.

00:04:07 ◼   ► I mean, it should have been expected

00:04:08 ◼   ► 'cause if you squint at the MacStudio,

00:04:10 ◼   ► it's like a MacBook Pro in a much bigger case.

00:04:13 ◼   ► And that one also has HDMI 2.0

00:04:15 ◼   ► and I think the same UHS-II SD card slot.

00:04:20 ◼   ► So there's another potential upgrade opportunity

00:04:22 ◼   ► for the next revision of this machine as well.

00:04:24 ◼   ► It would be nice if it's gonna have an HDMI port

00:04:27 ◼   ► that eventually it'll get upgraded to HDMI 2.1,

00:04:29 ◼   ► which is admittedly quite a leap

00:04:31 ◼   ► considering all the features that are included in HDMI 2.1

00:04:34 ◼   ► if they try to support them all.

00:04:35 ◼   ► But hey, for, you know, 4,000/8,000 dollars,

00:04:40 ◼   ► HDMI 2.1 would be nice.

00:04:42 ◼   ► - So what does 2.1 bring?

00:04:43 ◼   ► Just what are a couple of highlights?

00:04:45 ◼   ► - Variable refresh rate, higher frame rates.

00:04:49 ◼   ► Is it a better bit depth maybe as well?

00:04:53 ◼   ► A bunch more video output options.

00:04:56 ◼   ► There's like a laundry list of them.

00:04:57 ◼   ► You don't have to support them all to get HDMI 2.1.

00:04:59 ◼   ► In fact, I think the HDMI consortium changed it

00:05:01 ◼   ► so that you can say HDMI 2.1 even if you only

00:05:04 ◼   ► support the 2.0 subset of it.

00:05:05 ◼   ► I think they learned by watching USB.

00:05:08 ◼   ► If USB can make their names meaningless, we can do that too.

00:05:12 ◼   ► So literally, you can have just the 2.0 subset of features,

00:05:16 ◼   ► but still say HDMI 2.1 because technically that's

00:05:18 ◼   ► part of the spec.

00:05:19 ◼   ► Anyway, it's silly, but I feel like the higher refresh rate,

00:05:23 ◼   ► if Apple, you know, well, hey, you can get a gaming monitor

00:05:26 ◼   ► in theory, right, and maybe it's a gaming monitor

00:05:28 ◼   ► than HDMI port, it's a HDMI 2.1 gaming monitor,

00:05:31 ◼   ► which are more common these days now

00:05:32 ◼   ► that the game console supported.

00:05:34 ◼   ► If you hook that up to your Mac,

00:05:35 ◼   ► you can't play games at 120 hertz or whatever.

00:05:38 ◼   ► - All right, moving right along.

00:05:40 ◼   ► I need a hug, because apparently there's

00:05:45 ◼   ► a 27 inch Studio Display Pro coming,

00:05:47 ◼   ► if we're to believe these rumors.

00:05:49 ◼   ► I can't handle this, guys,

00:05:50 ◼   ► but this rollercoaster of emotion.

00:05:52 ◼   ► I am trapped in a glass cage

00:05:54 ◼   ► that is sitting on a rollercoaster of emotion.

00:05:56 ◼   ► But display analyst, Ross Young.

00:05:58 ◼   ► - That's precarious. - I'm mixing some metaphors

00:05:59 ◼   ► here, yes.

00:06:01 ◼   ► 27 inch, I'm a Studio Display Pro

00:06:03 ◼   ► with mini-LED and ProMotion could launch in June.

00:06:06 ◼   ► Ross Young says, "Still expecting a 27 inch mini-LED display

00:06:09 ◼   ► from Apple in June.

00:06:10 ◼   ► Guess it might be a Studio Display Pro.

00:06:11 ◼   ► Have confirmed it with multiple companies

00:06:12 ◼   ► in their supply chain."

00:06:14 ◼   ► If I have this damn studio display for like four months,

00:06:18 ◼   ► I'm gonna be real upset.

00:06:20 ◼   ► - Well, so think of it this way.

00:06:21 ◼   ► Like, first of all, this is just a rumor.

00:06:22 ◼   ► I don't know how.

00:06:23 ◼   ► I just threw this in there because the rumor, like,

00:06:24 ◼   ► landed immediately after the event.

00:06:26 ◼   ► It was like, oh, and by the way,

00:06:27 ◼   ► there's a, you know, mini LED promo.

00:06:30 ◼   ► It's just like, wait, what?

00:06:31 ◼   ► Like, just after your event, you're saying it's coming?

00:06:33 ◼   ► And in June, June is not that far from now.

00:06:36 ◼   ► But the way to think about this,

00:06:38 ◼   ► if this actually does come true,

00:06:39 ◼   ► is imagine the event had come

00:06:40 ◼   ► and Apple had launched two 27-inch monitors,

00:06:43 ◼   ► one that's like the one we got, and then one that has the fancy features, high refresh,

00:06:47 ◼   ► HDR, mini LED, right?

00:06:50 ◼   ► Obviously the high refresh HDR mini LED one would be more expensive.

00:06:53 ◼   ► You know, again, looking at a 6K display, scale it down to 5K, because it's basically

00:06:59 ◼   ► the same feature set they're saying it would be mini LED, which is more or less what the

00:07:02 ◼   ► XDR is, and high refresh, well the XDR doesn't even have high refresh, it would be better

00:07:07 ◼   ► than it in some ways, right?

00:07:09 ◼   ► It would be more expensive.

00:07:10 ◼   ► And if they put both of those out at the same time,

00:07:12 ◼   ► would you have chosen to spend an extra probably

00:07:16 ◼   ► thousand dollars for these features?

00:07:17 ◼   ► Or would you have still gotten the Apple Studio Display

00:07:20 ◼   ► that you ordered now?

00:07:21 ◼   ► - I would really think about it,

00:07:25 ◼   ► 'cause I really would love high refresh.

00:07:28 ◼   ► And was it you, Jon, that convinced me

00:07:31 ◼   ► that HDR may have been,

00:07:33 ◼   ► may be something I would be interested in,

00:07:35 ◼   ► just so I could see pictures from my iPhone?

00:07:37 ◼   ► - Obviously you want the features,

00:07:39 ◼   ► but for an extra probably thousand, maybe $1,500,

00:07:42 ◼   ► I think you would've thought twice about it.

00:07:45 ◼   ► - I don't think there's any chance in hell

00:07:46 ◼   ► you would've paid the premium,

00:07:47 ◼   ► 'cause again, we don't know how big this premium is,

00:07:49 ◼   ► or will be when this thing comes out.

00:07:51 ◼   ► Also, I mean, for whatever it's worth,

00:07:53 ◼   ► there has been some back and forth

00:07:54 ◼   ► with the rumorologists about this

00:07:56 ◼   ► that make it sound like it's either coming

00:07:58 ◼   ► in June or next year.

00:08:00 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:08:00 ◼   ► - Right, yeah.

00:08:01 ◼   ► So rumors are very vague.

00:08:03 ◼   ► - This thing, if it comes out,

00:08:04 ◼   ► who knows when it's gonna come out,

00:08:07 ◼   ► but I think if it's gonna be offering a similar,

00:08:12 ◼   ► assuming it's the same size, 27 inch 5K,

00:08:15 ◼   ► but also adds some kind of micro LED and variable refresh,

00:08:20 ◼   ► I don't see how it's under $3,000 and it's probably more.

00:08:24 ◼   ► And so I don't think there's any chance.

00:08:27 ◼   ► If both these options would've been released

00:08:29 ◼   ► on the same day, I don't think you would've

00:08:31 ◼   ► bought the other one, Casey, I really don't.

00:08:33 ◼   ► I think you would've stuck with the one you got.

00:08:35 ◼   ► And it's still an open question of how inexpensive they can make this, because we thought maybe

00:08:39 ◼   ► this would be the time where we would show that, like, oh, because, you know, because

00:08:43 ◼   ► the 14 and 16 inch MacBook Pro displays are apparently reasonably priced enough to be

00:08:49 ◼   ► unreasonably priced laptops that maybe the previously established baseline for what does

00:08:54 ◼   ► it cost to have a big retina res HDR display, that baseline is no longer valid, and we actually

00:09:01 ◼   ► we could do a bunch cheaper.

00:09:02 ◼   ► So far, that's not true.

00:09:04 ◼   ► baseline we have is is as it ever was that if you want to have fancy features

00:09:08 ◼   ► at a large size at high DPI it costs an arm and a leg because you can buy these

00:09:12 ◼   ► monitors in the PC world not 5k ones but even just 4k ones and they cost a ton of

00:09:17 ◼   ► money like thousands three thousand five thousand six thousand dollars they're

00:09:21 ◼   ► like XDR type prices for XDR type technology by the time this comes out if

00:09:27 ◼   ► it comes out next year maybe that will have changed by then but the real thing

00:09:32 ◼   ► that is making me doubt this rumor is,

00:09:34 ◼   ► Apple launched two such similar products,

00:09:40 ◼   ► one in March and one in June.

00:09:42 ◼   ► That just seemed like, unless there was some reason

00:09:44 ◼   ► that it was accidentally delayed

00:09:46 ◼   ► and they just couldn't get it out at time,

00:09:47 ◼   ► or one of them comes late,

00:09:48 ◼   ► I don't see them having a planned release to release

00:09:51 ◼   ► after whatever, five years, six years or whatever,

00:09:54 ◼   ► finally release a monitor, everybody buys it.

00:09:56 ◼   ► And then by the time the last person gets their shipment

00:09:58 ◼   ► that they ordered on launch day or something,

00:10:00 ◼   ► you release a new one that's better.

00:10:02 ◼   ► That just seems too tight of a timeline for me.

00:10:04 ◼   ► I mean, it would be like Apple introducing

00:10:07 ◼   ► the new MacBook Pros, and then three months later,

00:10:10 ◼   ► introducing a totally revised, better version

00:10:13 ◼   ► of the same products.

00:10:14 ◼   ► It just doesn't seem like an Apple thing to do.

00:10:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, I would suspect that if this is a thing,

00:10:18 ◼   ► which I'm really skeptical, and admittedly,

00:10:21 ◼   ► it's in my own self and best interest

00:10:24 ◼   ► to believe it's skeptical, but if this is real at all,

00:10:27 ◼   ► I don't see it happening this year.

00:10:28 ◼   ► I think it would be next year at the earliest,

00:10:30 ◼   ► But we shall see.

00:10:32 ◼   ► Jon, I know you have been dying to tell us

00:10:36 ◼   ► about the origins of Fivehead.

00:10:37 ◼   ► After copious amounts of research,

00:10:39 ◼   ► which by the way you're not supposed to be doing,

00:10:40 ◼   ► what have you discovered?

00:10:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, I thought it was a Seinfeld episode

00:10:43 ◼   ► 'cause it sounds like a Seinfeld.

00:10:44 ◼   ► I mean, there's even the one with the Elaine.

00:10:46 ◼   ► Elaine's got the big head, you know,

00:10:47 ◼   ► the bird flew right into her head.

00:10:49 ◼   ► It's like you couldn't avoid it.

00:10:50 ◼   ► It reminded me of a Seinfeld episode,

00:10:53 ◼   ► but it wasn't apparently.

00:10:55 ◼   ► And after the show, many people sent me suggestions

00:10:57 ◼   ► of what they thought it might be.

00:10:58 ◼   ► Someone pointed out that it was probably the flophouse and dug out the actual episode

00:11:02 ◼   ► And now I will put in the link so you can hear it. It is in a flophouse episode 94

00:11:07 ◼   ► Which was a long time ago in 2012

00:11:09 ◼   ► Around 29 minutes and 46 seconds. We will put a timestamp link in the show notes. You can hear steward wellington

00:11:17 ◼   ► uh

00:11:18 ◼   ► I'm, not going to say inventing five head

00:11:20 ◼   ► But that's probably where I heard it because i've listened to the flophouse and that's probably where I got it from

00:11:25 ◼   ► And I think it comes up in subsequent years

00:11:27 ◼   ► on the flop house as well.

00:11:29 ◼   ► Other people pointed out Victor Borg,

00:11:31 ◼   ► is that how you pronounce his name?

00:11:32 ◼   ► Victor Borg, this is just like--

00:11:34 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:11:35 ◼   ► - Inflationary language where he just takes

00:11:39 ◼   ► any common English phrases with numbers

00:11:41 ◼   ► and increments them by one and he also says five head

00:11:43 ◼   ► and will put a link, that's obviously much older

00:11:44 ◼   ► than the flop house, so maybe Stuart got it from this thing

00:11:47 ◼   ► that he watched when he was a kid or something.

00:11:49 ◼   ► So both of those links will be in the show notes

00:11:51 ◼   ► with timestamps.

00:11:52 ◼   ► - I feel so much better now.

00:11:54 ◼   ► - You should, and now a five head is part of your life.

00:11:57 ◼   ► And now when you go to London,

00:11:59 ◼   ► you can talk about the five head building,

00:12:00 ◼   ► the one that melted cars and stuff.

00:12:02 ◼   ► You know that one?

00:12:03 ◼   ► - What?

00:12:04 ◼   ► Was it like the curve reflection thing?

00:12:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's a building in London

00:12:07 ◼   ► that looks like it's got a five head

00:12:08 ◼   ► 'cause it gets like bigger at the top,

00:12:10 ◼   ► it looks like it has a big bulging forehead,

00:12:12 ◼   ► and the sun reflected off it in such a way

00:12:15 ◼   ► that it was like melting things that were in front of it

00:12:16 ◼   ► during a certain time of day,

00:12:17 ◼   ► so they fixed it by putting a giant like sunshade inside it.

00:12:20 ◼   ► - All right, moving right along,

00:12:21 ◼   ► Tell us about your Marco Christmas present.

00:12:24 ◼   ► - Alex Poulianis says that the A7 III

00:12:26 ◼   ► does have animal eye detection,

00:12:27 ◼   ► you just need to update the firmware.

00:12:28 ◼   ► Many other people sent this in to me,

00:12:30 ◼   ► but Alex was the first one.

00:12:32 ◼   ► And so I was excited by this,

00:12:33 ◼   ► and I went and looked at the camera,

00:12:35 ◼   ► and the latest firmware from Sony for those cameras

00:12:38 ◼   ► version 4.0.1, and what was installed on it was 2.0.

00:12:42 ◼   ► So I did update the firmware.

00:12:44 ◼   ► - You should send it back for a refund.

00:12:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, I did update the firmware.

00:12:48 ◼   ► I went to the Sony website, Sony Software,

00:12:50 ◼   ► is so awful.

00:12:52 ◼   ► I mean, their iOS software is not great,

00:12:53 ◼   ► but at least it works,

00:12:54 ◼   ► but their Mac software is just next level bad.

00:12:57 ◼   ► I downloaded a thing for a Mac

00:12:59 ◼   ► that was ostensibly supposed to be a thing

00:13:00 ◼   ► that lets you update the firmware in your Sony camera.

00:13:03 ◼   ► Yeah, just flat out did not work.

00:13:05 ◼   ► Like it was the most confusing Byzantine interface.

00:13:09 ◼   ► I thought I must not be understanding

00:13:11 ◼   ► what it wants me to do or why,

00:13:12 ◼   ► 'cause it would be like unplug the camera,

00:13:14 ◼   ► don't have your camera plugged in,

00:13:15 ◼   ► plug it in and turn it on and do it.

00:13:17 ◼   ► It just absolutely did not work.

00:13:19 ◼   ► It might be because like Mac OS has clamped down security

00:13:23 ◼   ► since it was written and they never updated,

00:13:24 ◼   ► who the heck knows?

00:13:25 ◼   ► So Windows to the rescue, I booted into Windows

00:13:28 ◼   ► and the Windows version of the software is also awful,

00:13:30 ◼   ► but actually works when you follow the instructions.

00:13:32 ◼   ► So I booted into Windows, updated my firmware

00:13:34 ◼   ► and now my A7 III can do pet eye detection

00:13:37 ◼   ► and I took many doggy pictures.

00:13:39 ◼   ► - So just to add insult to injury

00:13:42 ◼   ► with your Mac Pro being truly terrible

00:13:45 ◼   ► by any reasonable measure at this point, right?

00:13:48 ◼   ► Apparently the base model Mac Pro has gotten a spec bump,

00:13:50 ◼   ► just to make yours feel even more inadequate.

00:13:52 ◼   ► - New.

00:13:53 ◼   ► - Mine's already, mine already surpasses the spec bump,

00:13:56 ◼   ► but it's interesting that they are,

00:13:58 ◼   ► like, whenever you see a spec bump like this,

00:14:00 ◼   ► what do they do?

00:14:01 ◼   ► Do they bump the storage from 128 to 512?

00:14:06 ◼   ► Like, kinda hard for me to believe that it was 128.

00:14:08 ◼   ► - Was it 256?

00:14:09 ◼   ► - 256, yeah.

00:14:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, all they're doing is making

00:14:13 ◼   ► the base level configuration have

00:14:15 ◼   ► what used to be add-on options.

00:14:17 ◼   ► and the kind of bumping everything down like one step.

00:14:20 ◼   ► So it isn't that there's like new hardware available,

00:14:23 ◼   ► you just get more on the base model than you got before

00:14:26 ◼   ► of the same choices that were already available.

00:14:27 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, it was 256, sorry.

00:14:29 ◼   ► It's hard to believe that you'd buy this $6,000 computer

00:14:32 ◼   ► and it would come with a 256 gigabyte SSD in it.

00:14:34 ◼   ► It's just ridiculous, right?

00:14:35 ◼   ► And when they do things like this,

00:14:37 ◼   ► especially they bump the graphics card

00:14:39 ◼   ► from the Radeon Pro 580X,

00:14:42 ◼   ► which was a terrible graphics card,

00:14:45 ◼   ► to the W550X, which is considerably better,

00:14:49 ◼   ► it makes me think they can't get the 580X anymore

00:14:52 ◼   ► 'cause it's so old, right?

00:14:54 ◼   ► It's like, yeah.

00:14:55 ◼   ► Like since when does Apple,

00:14:57 ◼   ► Apple doesn't have a reputation for essentially reducing

00:15:01 ◼   ► the price of configurations of computers as they age.

00:15:03 ◼   ► They just don't.

00:15:04 ◼   ► I mean, they're still selling the Apple TV HD

00:15:06 ◼   ► for some obscene price.

00:15:07 ◼   ► They're like, just because the computer has been around,

00:15:10 ◼   ► look at the iMac Pro.

00:15:12 ◼   ► Did that price ever go down

00:15:13 ◼   ► in its third year of life or whatever

00:15:15 ◼   ► because it was ancient stuff, no, it didn't.

00:15:18 ◼   ► So I always think they're running out of parts

00:15:19 ◼   ► when they do this, but it's nice

00:15:21 ◼   ► that they're still revising it.

00:15:22 ◼   ► This is not an exciting update, but there you have it.

00:15:24 ◼   ► But hey, if you need to boot into Windows

00:15:26 ◼   ► to update your Sony camera,

00:15:27 ◼   ► it's good to have one of those Intel Macs.

00:15:30 ◼   ► - Realtime followup, Marco, that new comment,

00:15:34 ◼   ► it went right over my head,

00:15:35 ◼   ► but that was a much better joke

00:15:36 ◼   ► than I gave you credit for, so well done.

00:15:37 ◼   ► - Thank you.

00:15:38 ◼   ► We are sponsored this week by Collide.

00:15:41 ◼   ► Collide is a new take on endpoint management that asks the question, "How can we get end

00:15:46 ◼   ► users more involved?"

00:15:47 ◼   ► In contrast to old school device management tools like MDM, which lock down your employees

00:15:51 ◼   ► devices without considering their needs or even attempting to educate them about the

00:15:55 ◼   ► security of their laptop.

00:15:57 ◼   ► Collide is built by like-minded security practitioners, who in the past saw just how much MDM was

00:16:03 ◼   ► disrupting their end users, often frustrating them so much they'd throw their hands up

00:16:06 ◼   ► and just switch to using their personal laptops without telling anyone.

00:16:09 ◼   ► And in that scenario, everyone loses.

00:16:11 ◼   ► So Collide, on the other hand, is different.

00:16:14 ◼   ► Instead of locking down a device,

00:16:16 ◼   ► Collide takes a user-focused approach

00:16:18 ◼   ► that communicates security recommendations to your employees

00:16:21 ◼   ► directly on Slack.

00:16:23 ◼   ► After Collide, device security turns

00:16:25 ◼   ► from a black and white state into a dynamic conversation.

00:16:28 ◼   ► This starts with the end users installing the endpoint agent

00:16:30 ◼   ► on their own through a guided process that

00:16:33 ◼   ► happens right inside their first Slack message.

00:16:35 ◼   ► From there, Collide regularly sends employees recommendations

00:16:38 ◼   ► when their device is in an insecure state.

00:16:40 ◼   ► This can range from simple problems like the screen lock not being set correctly to hard

00:16:44 ◼   ► to solve and nuanced issues like asking people to secure two factor backup codes sitting

00:16:48 ◼   ► in their downloads folder properly.

00:16:50 ◼   ► And because it's talking directly to employees, Collide is also educating them about the company's

00:16:54 ◼   ► policies and how to best keep their devices secure using real, tangible examples, not

00:16:59 ◼   ► theoretical scenarios.

00:17:01 ◼   ► So that's Collide, cross-platform endpoint management for Linux, Mac, and Windows devices

00:17:06 ◼   ► that puts end users first for teams that slack.

00:17:09 ◼   ► Visit collide.com/ATP to learn more and activate a free 14-day trial today.

00:17:16 ◼   ► That's collide, K-O-L-I-D-E dot com slash ATP for that 14-day free trial.

00:17:21 ◼   ► Enter your email when prompted to receive your free Collide gift bundle after trial

00:17:25 ◼   ► activation with no credit card required.

00:17:27 ◼   ► Once again, collide.com/ATP.

00:17:30 ◼   ► Visit there today.

00:17:31 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Collide for sponsoring our show.

00:17:38 ◼   ► Moving right along, oh, we should probably spend a minute

00:17:41 ◼   ► talking about Masquerade.

00:17:42 ◼   ► The launch went well-ish, like it went fine.

00:17:48 ◼   ► Sales have been okay.

00:17:51 ◼   ► I'm going to forever blame the two of you

00:17:53 ◼   ► for your just incredible sales pitch a couple episodes back,

00:17:56 ◼   ► and that's why it happened.

00:17:57 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:18:00 ◼   ► - I feel so bad, I'm so sorry.

00:18:03 ◼   ► First, you invite me to beta test this app

00:18:05 ◼   ► for like three months and I do almost no testing.

00:18:08 ◼   ► - Well, to me, it makes you feel better.

00:18:10 ◼   ► So I haven't watched what you sent me.

00:18:12 ◼   ► So Marco sent me like a 20 or 30 minute video.

00:18:14 ◼   ► So in your defense, I have not had the time yet

00:18:16 ◼   ► to watch what you've sent me.

00:18:17 ◼   ► So I have saved it, it exists, it is on the to-do list,

00:18:20 ◼   ► but I haven't done it yet.

00:18:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, so then we did our launch show

00:18:24 ◼   ► and I kind of crapped all over your schedule for doing it,

00:18:27 ◼   ► which I didn't mean to be a jerk about it

00:18:30 ◼   ► and I'm very sorry about that.

00:18:32 ◼   ► So then I'm like, you know what, I feel so bad.

00:18:35 ◼   ► Let me help out my friend or at least try to--

00:18:38 ◼   ► - By telling him all the other things

00:18:39 ◼   ► that are wrong with his app?

00:18:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I set up my phone, I set up one phone

00:18:44 ◼   ► shooting video of another phone,

00:18:46 ◼   ► and I did a whole walkthrough of the app.

00:18:48 ◼   ► Like, here's from launch, first launch,

00:18:50 ◼   ► going through, here's the purchase, here's everything else.

00:18:52 ◼   ► Here's what I think of every single part of this app,

00:18:54 ◼   ► one by one.

00:18:55 ◼   ► So my present to you was a 24 minute video,

00:18:59 ◼   ► which is basically giving somebody a problem.

00:19:01 ◼   ► Like here, I'm gonna, as a gift to you,

00:19:03 ◼   ► I'm gonna give you this giant time commitment

00:19:05 ◼   ► that you have to sink into.

00:19:07 ◼   ► - You might as well have given me a puppy.

00:19:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, right? (laughs)

00:19:10 ◼   ► No, puppies are better.

00:19:12 ◼   ► But yeah, so anyway, so I'm sorry both

00:19:14 ◼   ► for the lack of testing and for breezing over it too much

00:19:16 ◼   ► when you announced it, and then also for giving

00:19:19 ◼   ► a big time commitment as my makeup gift

00:19:22 ◼   ► for those first two anti-gifts. (laughs)

00:19:24 ◼   ► But I-- - You too could have

00:19:25 ◼   ► a friend like Marco Armey.

00:19:26 ◼   ► - Yes, right. - Get a lot of you.

00:19:27 ◼   ► - I'm a great friend to have.

00:19:29 ◼   ► So yeah, so I honestly do wanna hear like,

00:19:31 ◼   ► you know, how's it going?

00:19:32 ◼   ► 'Cause one thing I have, you know,

00:19:34 ◼   ► the only reason we didn't talk about it last week

00:19:36 ◼   ► was 'cause it was an event week,

00:19:37 ◼   ► but I was very surprised and in a way I was humbled

00:19:42 ◼   ► by like, for my lack of imagination.

00:19:45 ◼   ► There were just so many people who wrote in to Casey

00:19:47 ◼   ► to say like, hey, I have this use case

00:19:50 ◼   ► and it's great for that.

00:19:51 ◼   ► And there were so many of those

00:19:53 ◼   ► that I just could not think of at all at first.

00:19:57 ◼   ► 'Cause I thought it was just like,

00:19:59 ◼   ► here's an app for people who wanna do what Casey does.

00:20:02 ◼   ► That's it, period.

00:20:02 ◼   ► Like, an app for people who wanna put emoji

00:20:05 ◼   ► on their kids' faces on Instagram.

00:20:06 ◼   ► And there's so many more use cases for it than that,

00:20:09 ◼   ► and everyone's been telling you all about that,

00:20:10 ◼   ► and that's pretty great.

00:20:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's been surprising for me too.

00:20:13 ◼   ► I'd love to be all smug and be like,

00:20:15 ◼   ► "Oh, of course, Marco, I knew this all along."

00:20:17 ◼   ► But no, I did not.

00:20:18 ◼   ► And so a lot of very interesting use cases have come up.

00:20:22 ◼   ► Some of the more popular ones I've seen is foster parents.

00:20:27 ◼   ► And this is not a world that I'm a part of, but I'm slightly embarrassed that I didn't think about this.

00:20:32 ◼   ► But foster parents in most places, my limited understanding is they are legally, I guess, obligated to obscure the faces of the children that they're fostering.

00:20:41 ◼   ► Because most states don't seem to think it's their right to post photographs of the faces of the children that they're fostering.

00:20:47 ◼   ► And so they have to obscure them.

00:20:48 ◼   ► And so, yeah, so foster parents have been really, really enthusiastic about this.

00:20:52 ◼   ► And boudoir photographers who want to keep things safe for work apparently are interested

00:20:59 ◼   ► in putting maybe some eggplants all over the photographs or something along those lines,

00:21:05 ◼   ► which was something I was very surprised to read, but I mean, hey, makes sense.

00:21:09 ◼   ► And it actually got even more risque from there, but I'll leave that for another time.

00:21:14 ◼   ► Coming back to the less risque options, teachers, which is something I did think about, and

00:21:18 ◼   ► certainly I've told friends of Erin's and mine that are teachers, you know, if

00:21:22 ◼   ► you want to post a picture of your classroom, you may have social media

00:21:25 ◼   ► releases for your kids. Some school districts do that, some don't. But

00:21:29 ◼   ► nevertheless, it's easier perhaps to just obscure their faces. And so teachers, any

00:21:34 ◼   ► of them that I've spoken to about it, seem really enthusiastic about it.

00:21:38 ◼   ► Amusement park ride photos, somebody tweeted, I think I retweeted, a picture of

00:21:42 ◼   ► like Splash Mountain or something like that at Disney World where they put like

00:21:45 ◼   ► little screamy or smiley faces or whatever on all of the ride participants except them

00:21:51 ◼   ► and their family or maybe it was just that single individual which I got quite a kick

00:21:54 ◼   ► out of.

00:21:57 ◼   ► Protesters or perhaps even military personnel.

00:22:00 ◼   ► Again we stand with Ukraine but obviously there's a lot of really awful and terrible

00:22:04 ◼   ► things going on over there and there are plenty of reasons why you might want to obscure faces

00:22:09 ◼   ► or something like that so that's an example.

00:22:13 ◼   ► just plenty of different things. A few people have taken to putting pig noses on the nose

00:22:20 ◼   ► of their dog. So they got a little pig snout, snoot, whatever, which is quite funny to see.

00:22:25 ◼   ► I saw a few of those fly by. I think I retweeted one or two of those, which were very, very,

00:22:28 ◼   ► very good. And I liked those quite a bit. So yeah, there are a lot more use cases here

00:22:34 ◼   ► than I expected. And as much as I, when we were recording a couple episodes ago, I felt

00:22:41 ◼   ► like both of you guys were being a little tunnel visioned about it, but certainly this

00:22:46 ◼   ► is more eye-opening than I would have expected even, so I can't entirely fault you for it.

00:22:53 ◼   ► In general, a couple of other observations. I got a lot of generally friendly flak, but

00:22:58 ◼   ► flak nevertheless, about the fact that the app doesn't prompt for permission before opening

00:23:07 ◼   ► a photo and a lot of people were like, hey, what are you doing?

00:23:14 ◼   ► This doesn't seem right at all.

00:23:17 ◼   ► And at first I was like, what are you talking about?

00:23:18 ◼   ► What is this as an API?

00:23:19 ◼   ► And it occurred to me that, that for better or worse, the nerds, at least

00:23:23 ◼   ► have been trained to only trust when they see a permissions prompt.

00:23:28 ◼   ► And honestly, that's probably for the best.

00:23:31 ◼   ► That being said, as of shoot, uh, last year, no, two years ago, God,

00:23:35 ◼   ► what year is it?

00:23:36 ◼   ► Times a flat circle.

00:23:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, doesn't matter. - In 2020,

00:23:39 ◼   ► they released a new API,

00:23:41 ◼   ► and it is the pH Picker View Controller.

00:23:44 ◼   ► And the advantage of the pH Picker View Controller

00:23:47 ◼   ► is that it allows you to load images

00:23:52 ◼   ► without having to have any sort of prompt.

00:23:54 ◼   ► And so basically by calling into Apple's code

00:23:59 ◼   ► using this specific view controller,

00:24:02 ◼   ► I can ask for one or more photos,

00:24:04 ◼   ► and it will handle what it needs to handle on its end,

00:24:08 ◼   ► I don't have to ask for permission or anything.

00:24:09 ◼   ► It'll just do it,

00:24:11 ◼   ► and then it will come back to me with the results.

00:24:13 ◼   ► And so the only thing I have access to

00:24:16 ◼   ► are the specific images that the user,

00:24:18 ◼   ► or in my case image, that the user has selected.

00:24:22 ◼   ► They don't give me any sort of access to anything else.

00:24:25 ◼   ► And that's really cool.

00:24:27 ◼   ► And for me, it was perfect.

00:24:28 ◼   ► It was exactly what I wanted,

00:24:29 ◼   ► but it was funny and interesting to me

00:24:31 ◼   ► that a lot of people were like, "Hey man, what you doing? Because this doesn't seem right at all."

00:24:38 ◼   ► But that was very fascinating. In terms of sales, it's okay. It hasn't lit my financial

00:24:46 ◼   ► world on fire. It's not bad, but it's not spectacular. So there's that. But I'm having

00:24:54 ◼   ► fun with it, which is good. I've already released one release, and earlier today I

00:24:59 ◼   ► Sent to TestFlight for review, but it hasn't been approved as far as I know.

00:25:03 ◼   ► Another release, one of the things that people asked for the most was a

00:25:08 ◼   ► way to get a photo from other apps into Masquerade, which is a

00:25:12 ◼   ► completely reasonable thing to ask for and something I was planning on. I tell you what, maybe I'm just a dummy, but the

00:25:20 ◼   ► namespace for things that interact with the share sheet has been so polluted with like

00:25:26 ◼   ► generic terms like action extension, which you can find in like a billion different computer science related context

00:25:34 ◼   ► there are so many different ways to

00:25:36 ◼   ► skin this cat and it took a lot of help from random people on Twitter to get me to the exact point I wanted to

00:25:43 ◼   ► But I think I have a version of that working that should be out in another week or so

00:25:48 ◼   ► Where you can be in photos you can open the share sheet

00:25:51 ◼   ► It'll appear in the second row, you know, where you will like peer to messages and things of that nature

00:25:56 ◼   ► Well, if you add it, you know, because you have to first add it as one of the options that are available there

00:26:01 ◼   ► But in the second row beneath contacts, you'll see a masquerade icon and then it will prompt you

00:26:07 ◼   ► Hey, do you want to edit this masquerade and then it will pop over to masquerade and it'll

00:26:11 ◼   ► It'll let you edit it right there and assuming

00:26:14 ◼   ► the testers

00:26:17 ◼   ► assuming the testers think that it works okay,

00:26:20 ◼   ► then hopefully, like I said,

00:26:22 ◼   ► I'll have that out in a week or two.

00:26:24 ◼   ► - You know, if you watch my 24-minute video,

00:26:26 ◼   ► there's a couple, there's a bunch of like, you know,

00:26:27 ◼   ► really quick hit kind of things in there

00:26:29 ◼   ► that you could do pretty quickly in the next video.

00:26:30 ◼   ► - No, and I do, all kidding aside, I do need to.

00:26:33 ◼   ► The problem is is I have this like--

00:26:34 ◼   ► - For instance, that bug about the selection rectangle,

00:26:36 ◼   ► I found that bug during the video,

00:26:37 ◼   ► and I've told you how to fix it.

00:26:38 ◼   ► I reproduce it 100% of the time.

00:26:40 ◼   ► - Oh, good.

00:26:41 ◼   ► Well, I was briefly looking at that earlier today,

00:26:42 ◼   ► so I guess I should stop procrastinating on the video, but--

00:26:44 ◼   ► - I can tell you exactly how to fix it.

00:26:46 ◼   ► - In SwiftUI?

00:26:47 ◼   ► - Oh no, screw that.

00:26:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, see, see.

00:26:51 ◼   ► 'Cause remember that app up until this update with,

00:26:53 ◼   ► so for the update for the share sheet,

00:26:56 ◼   ► I had to write Objective-C.

00:26:58 ◼   ► That's how much I'm going through for you, the purchaser.

00:27:02 ◼   ► - Why did you have to do that?

00:27:04 ◼   ► - Okay, so do we, no, so I think this is worth talking about.

00:27:07 ◼   ► - Honestly, 'cause they both interoperate

00:27:10 ◼   ► and it's a Swift application and why?

00:27:13 ◼   ► What did you have to do that for?

00:27:13 ◼   ► So, I don't wanna make this long,

00:27:17 ◼   ► and I don't wanna be super specific

00:27:18 ◼   ► because I'm doing something that's not shady,

00:27:20 ◼   ► but not entirely on the up and up, but--

00:27:23 ◼   ► - Are you swizzling something?

00:27:24 ◼   ► - No, I'm not swizzling, no, no, no, no.

00:27:25 ◼   ► But I needed to, let's just say I needed

00:27:29 ◼   ► to walk the responder chain,

00:27:30 ◼   ► and that is something that's considerably easier to do

00:27:34 ◼   ► in the way in which I was trying to do it

00:27:36 ◼   ► with some of the other things that were happening around it

00:27:38 ◼   ► in Objective-C than it was in Swift.

00:27:41 ◼   ► And you can do this in Swift, it's fine,

00:27:43 ◼   ► like please don't write me, it's totally fine.

00:27:46 ◼   ► I'm not upset really that it happened,

00:27:48 ◼   ► but it was funny having to write Objective-C

00:27:50 ◼   ► for the first time in a long time

00:27:51 ◼   ► and remembering that like, oh, semicolons are a thing.

00:27:54 ◼   ► I forgot about that, you know?

00:27:56 ◼   ► So yeah, so anyway, but all in all,

00:27:59 ◼   ► I'm pleased with the app.

00:28:00 ◼   ► There's definitely problems with it.

00:28:02 ◼   ► Apparently 25 minutes worth of problems with it

00:28:03 ◼   ► if you're Marco Arment,

00:28:04 ◼   ► but there's definitely problems with it.

00:28:07 ◼   ► I think it's good and I think it's getting better

00:28:10 ◼   ► and that pleases me, but sales have been meh,

00:28:14 ◼   ► and that's pretty disheartening.

00:28:15 ◼   ► So you win some, you lose some.

00:28:18 ◼   ► - I still don't know how to find exactly the people

00:28:21 ◼   ► who use this app for you.

00:28:23 ◼   ► - That's the crux of the issue, isn't it?

00:28:25 ◼   ► - Right, what's good is that you have a lot more groups

00:28:27 ◼   ► that you can target here.

00:28:29 ◼   ► This is something that I've had to learn so many times.

00:28:32 ◼   ► I really don't know how to reach people

00:28:36 ◼   ► I'm not already reaching.

00:28:38 ◼   ► I never have been good at this with my own apps.

00:28:40 ◼   ► If you look at the things I've made,

00:28:42 ◼   ► the things that have succeeded are things

00:28:44 ◼   ► that appeal to the audience I already have.

00:28:47 ◼   ► The things that have not succeeded

00:28:49 ◼   ► are when I try to appeal to other groups.

00:28:51 ◼   ► Like when I make stuff that is not really that useful

00:28:54 ◼   ► to a lot of tech nerds, I tend not to succeed.

00:28:58 ◼   ► I don't know how to reach out to this audience.

00:29:00 ◼   ► I have no idea.

00:29:01 ◼   ► I've tried a couple of, you know,

00:29:03 ◼   ► like ads and things here and there,

00:29:04 ◼   ► but not, never at a large scale,

00:29:06 ◼   ► and never like to a super targeted group,

00:29:08 ◼   ► never doing things like going on Facebook or Google

00:29:11 ◼   ► and like buying really targeted demographic kind of stuff.

00:29:14 ◼   ► I've never done any of that stuff.

00:29:15 ◼   ► But that is probably something to look at.

00:29:19 ◼   ► How you might feel about that, that's a different story

00:29:21 ◼   ► and I certainly have my feelings about that kind of stuff

00:29:23 ◼   ► and that's one of the reasons I haven't done it.

00:29:25 ◼   ► But I've also benefited from my businesses

00:29:29 ◼   ► mostly targeting the audience that I already have

00:29:33 ◼   ► and that I can already reach.

00:29:35 ◼   ► I'm really good at making tools for nerds.

00:29:37 ◼   ► Ultimately, and this isn't gonna help you

00:29:40 ◼   ► with this particular problem,

00:29:41 ◼   ► but ultimately, I think if you wanna really blow out

00:29:45 ◼   ► your indie app career, start making tools for nerds like you.

00:29:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah. - Look at this stuff

00:29:51 ◼   ► people ask you about all the time.

00:29:52 ◼   ► Make a friend for FFmpeg to do a bunch of common stuff.

00:29:55 ◼   ► There's so many apps that are basically that.

00:29:57 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:29:58 ◼   ► That's the kind of thing you could do.

00:30:00 ◼   ► Make something that makes people's synologies more useful.

00:30:05 ◼   ► You know, like make something that is really good

00:30:07 ◼   ► that integrates with Plex.

00:30:08 ◼   ► Like the things that you're already a big nerd about,

00:30:11 ◼   ► I feel like you would at least have a better chance

00:30:13 ◼   ► of selling your existing audience on that kind of stuff

00:30:16 ◼   ► and you get more people that way.

00:30:17 ◼   ► 'Cause when you're making an app that's trying to reach out

00:30:20 ◼   ► to parents with certain needs,

00:30:22 ◼   ► that's some of the people who listen to our show,

00:30:24 ◼   ► that's some of your existing audience,

00:30:26 ◼   ► that's some of your blog audience,

00:30:27 ◼   ► but it's not gonna be as much of that audience

00:30:30 ◼   ► as something that appeals to nerds who run FFmpeg.

00:30:34 ◼   ► It's a very, very different market.

00:30:36 ◼   ► And again, I'm only speaking from experience here,

00:30:38 ◼   ► that I've only succeeded when I've targeted nerds

00:30:41 ◼   ► in a broad way, and I have not succeeded

00:30:44 ◼   ► when I've tried to step out of that.

00:30:46 ◼   ► - I take what you're saying, and honestly,

00:30:48 ◼   ► there have been a couple either FFmpeg

00:30:51 ◼   ► or FFmpeg adjacent things that I've been really,

00:30:53 ◼   ► really kind of thinking about.

00:30:55 ◼   ► Part of the reason that I haven't done it

00:30:57 ◼   ► is because I don't have anything against

00:30:59 ◼   ► being a Mac developer, but I have no interest in learning AppKit, which I know is like blasphemy

00:31:07 ◼   ► for many of our friends, but I just, I don't. I just don't have any interest in it. And

00:31:11 ◼   ► going catalyst is an option, but it's got its own challenges. Doing SwiftUI is an option,

00:31:17 ◼   ► but it's got its own challenges. And then the other thing, again, I take your point, but

00:31:23 ◼   ► like if you're a nerd who knows enough to know what FFmpeg is, are you going to pay like 20, 30,

00:31:29 ◼   ► 40, 50 bucks for what is effectively just a GUI

00:31:31 ◼   ► in front of FFmpeg, you know what I mean?

00:31:33 ◼   ► Like, why wouldn't you just-- - I have, people do.

00:31:35 ◼   ► - I have.

00:31:35 ◼   ► - There's like 20 different apps out there that are that.

00:31:38 ◼   ► - I just used one recently.

00:31:39 ◼   ► I was using, what was I using?

00:31:41 ◼   ► I think Permute is just an FFmpeg front end.

00:31:43 ◼   ► A lot of my, I think a lot of my player apps

00:31:47 ◼   ► are FFmpeg front ends.

00:31:48 ◼   ► I find out when you look in the packages

00:31:49 ◼   ► and you see they bundle their own copy of FFmpeg

00:31:51 ◼   ► or some of them that I have in the preferences window

00:31:53 ◼   ► ask you to locate your copy of FFmpeg

00:31:55 ◼   ► and then you realize how many of these apps

00:31:56 ◼   ► are just front ends or FFmpeg.

00:31:58 ◼   ► Yeah, and I use them because I don't want to have to Google

00:32:01 ◼   ► for the command line every time.

00:32:02 ◼   ► I just wanna use a Google app.

00:32:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, fair.

00:32:05 ◼   ► I don't know, it's worth thinking about.

00:32:07 ◼   ► I think for now, my intention is to get rid of some

00:32:12 ◼   ► of the things that bother me about masquerade,

00:32:15 ◼   ► which is generally speaking things that bother other people

00:32:17 ◼   ► about masquerade, like for example,

00:32:18 ◼   ► not having a share extension.

00:32:20 ◼   ► But I'd like to spend another month or two

00:32:23 ◼   ► trying to get through those.

00:32:24 ◼   ► And I feel like I've been making pretty quick progress

00:32:25 ◼   ► of a lot of them.

00:32:27 ◼   ► And then once that's done,

00:32:30 ◼   ► I think I might spend a little time

00:32:33 ◼   ► spit polishing "Peak of You."

00:32:34 ◼   ► We should talk about that in another episode,

00:32:36 ◼   ► 'cause I don't know if it's worth my time or not,

00:32:37 ◼   ► but I feel like a little spit shine would be nice.

00:32:40 ◼   ► And then I'm not sure what's coming next,

00:32:41 ◼   ► to be honest with you.

00:32:42 ◼   ► I've really thought about doing just my own spin

00:32:45 ◼   ► on an FFmpeg front end like you've described.

00:32:48 ◼   ► I really, really, really wanna make a nicer way

00:32:52 ◼   ► to put chapters into videos,

00:32:54 ◼   ► which is like an esoteric part of an esoteric market,

00:32:58 ◼   ► but the options that exist today I'm not in love with.

00:33:00 ◼   ► And so I'm really considering doing something like that.

00:33:03 ◼   ► For all I know, maybe both of these things

00:33:04 ◼   ► could be the same app, I don't know.

00:33:06 ◼   ► But one way or another,

00:33:08 ◼   ► I don't know what's coming after Masquerade.

00:33:10 ◼   ► But, oh, and to go back a step,

00:33:12 ◼   ► I have thought very hard,

00:33:14 ◼   ► and I don't know if I'm gonna do it,

00:33:16 ◼   ► but I've thought very hard about taking the meager earnings

00:33:18 ◼   ► that Masquerade has already got

00:33:20 ◼   ► and pumping a lot of that into advertising for it.

00:33:25 ◼   ► And I don't know exactly what that would look like.

00:33:27 ◼   ► I don't know, honestly, I don't know really anything

00:33:30 ◼   ► about how to pay for people, to pay for advertising

00:33:34 ◼   ► that will hopefully get people to not only install your app,

00:33:36 ◼   ► but convert and purchase the IAP.

00:33:39 ◼   ► I don't know what I'm gonna do.

00:33:40 ◼   ► I think I'm going to try it at least a little bit.

00:33:43 ◼   ► I don't know if that means Instagram.

00:33:44 ◼   ► I don't know if that means Facebook.

00:33:45 ◼   ► If I'm smart, it probably means Facebook,

00:33:47 ◼   ► as gross as that is.

00:33:48 ◼   ► But I think I'm gonna at least give it a shot.

00:33:51 ◼   ► - Honestly, I would go Instagram.

00:33:53 ◼   ► 'Cause you figure like that's where people are.

00:33:55 ◼   ► You know, like you could show a picture

00:33:57 ◼   ► with the emoji already on it as the ad.

00:34:00 ◼   ► - But at that point I'm asking you to do something

00:34:02 ◼   ► that Instagram already does, right?

00:34:04 ◼   ► So, or you know, to pay for something

00:34:06 ◼   ► that Instagram already does.

00:34:07 ◼   ► I don't know, again, I'm happy to talk about this

00:34:10 ◼   ► in a general sense.

00:34:10 ◼   ► I think in the interest of time,

00:34:11 ◼   ► since we have a lot more to cover,

00:34:12 ◼   ► I think we should put it,

00:34:14 ◼   ► we should put it in the parking lot for now.

00:34:16 ◼   ► but we can put in parking lot and circle back later.

00:34:19 ◼   ► But I don't know what I'm gonna do about this,

00:34:23 ◼   ► but if there's interest both with you two

00:34:26 ◼   ► and with the listener for me talking through this

00:34:28 ◼   ► as I work through it over a month or two from now,

00:34:32 ◼   ► then I'm certainly happy to bring it to the show

00:34:33 ◼   ► and talk it over.

00:34:34 ◼   ► But I feel like my gut sitting here tonight

00:34:36 ◼   ► is that I think a little bit of Facebook

00:34:38 ◼   ► and maybe Instagram advertising is worth exploring.

00:34:41 ◼   ► And maybe I put 10% of what I've earned

00:34:46 ◼   ► from Masquerade into it, which is frustratingly

00:34:49 ◼   ► not 30 million dollars, which is what I was hoping for,

00:34:51 ◼   ► but certainly did not expect.

00:34:54 ◼   ► But put 10% of what I've earned into it

00:34:56 ◼   ► and see if I can get any traction from it.

00:34:58 ◼   ► And I don't know, we'll see what happens.

00:35:00 ◼   ► But I appreciate anyone who has bought it for sure.

00:35:04 ◼   ► I appreciate anyone who has told friends

00:35:06 ◼   ► or family about it, doubly sure.

00:35:09 ◼   ► And if you haven't checked it out, I would encourage it.

00:35:11 ◼   ► And not only is it, I think it's pretty good today

00:35:13 ◼   ► and it's certainly gonna get better.

00:35:15 ◼   ► and after I weep from all the feedback

00:35:17 ◼   ► that Marco's given me, I will be making

00:35:19 ◼   ► presumably many of the changes that he's suggested

00:35:21 ◼   ► and hopefully it'll get better still.

00:35:24 ◼   ► - I will agree with slightly that it's going to be

00:35:26 ◼   ► a lot of removal of some text.

00:35:28 ◼   ► - Well, that is not surprising.

00:35:30 ◼   ► - Little less text than you have,

00:35:31 ◼   ► but not a lot less, still Casey, still very Casey.

00:35:35 ◼   ► - Gotta get that file size down,

00:35:36 ◼   ► gotta remove those characters.

00:35:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, I actually am blowing out the file size

00:35:41 ◼   ► ever so slightly, I think it's only like two or three megs

00:35:43 ◼   ► to download right now, but I'm adding a photo of me,

00:35:48 ◼   ► a small photo of me in it because, oh, one of the features

00:35:50 ◼   ► I'm adding in the forthcoming version is you can have like

00:35:53 ◼   ► a sort of effectively a multiplier on how big the emoji is

00:35:58 ◼   ► once it's put on a face.

00:35:59 ◼   ► So if you think about the way this works is, you know,

00:36:01 ◼   ► I get from an API, oh, the face is at such and such

00:36:04 ◼   ► rectangle, well, you have the option coming up,

00:36:07 ◼   ► you will have the option of saying, well, make that rectangle

00:36:10 ◼   ► 120% bigger than it normally is, you know,

00:36:12 ◼   ► of the size that the API gave me,

00:36:14 ◼   ► so you have a better likelihood of it covering

00:36:17 ◼   ► the whole head rather than just the face.

00:36:19 ◼   ► Well, in order to do that, I put a picture of me in there,

00:36:22 ◼   ► and then you can slide left and right

00:36:24 ◼   ► to make the emoji bigger or smaller over my face.

00:36:27 ◼   ► So that's in, I don't know if you can get it in TestFlight

00:36:31 ◼   ► right this minute, but as soon as Apple gets around

00:36:33 ◼   ► to testing the TestFlight version, you can get it,

00:36:36 ◼   ► 'cause it's pending, it's waiting on Apple.

00:36:38 ◼   ► And so I added a picture of me,

00:36:39 ◼   ► that was like a meg in total across all three sizes.

00:36:43 ◼   ► And then the welcome screen, the image, the icon,

00:36:48 ◼   ► the masquerade icon at the top,

00:36:50 ◼   ► annoyingly, even for the 13 Pro Max,

00:36:53 ◼   ► the biggest icon that Apple packages within the bundle

00:36:57 ◼   ► of their own volition is like 72 by 72 at 2X

00:37:00 ◼   ► or something like that.

00:37:00 ◼   ► It's like an iPad size at 2X.

00:37:03 ◼   ► And I felt guilty adding another copy of the same thing

00:37:06 ◼   ► to the bundle in order to get a more retina-friendly

00:37:09 ◼   ► version of the icon and I've been called on it enough times that I've decided, you

00:37:13 ◼   ► know, what's the real difference between like a 4 meg app and a 5 meg app

00:37:17 ◼   ► or whatever. So I've added another copy of the masquerade

00:37:21 ◼   ► icon so it looks a little cleaner on the landing page. So it's getting a little

00:37:24 ◼   ► bit bigger I'm sad to say, but I guess Marco is gonna help me offset that.

00:37:27 ◼   ► That's what it is. I'm offsetting it. You know, just like you offset caloric

00:37:31 ◼   ► intake by exercise. Well Marco's giving me my exercise, if you will, so I can

00:37:35 ◼   ► offset the bloat of my app.

00:37:37 ◼   ► There you go.

00:37:38 ◼   ► So it's a team effort.

00:37:40 ◼   ► - I'll save you tens of bytes.

00:37:42 ◼   ► - Tens of bytes, I tell you.

00:37:44 ◼   ► All right, well, again, I'm not trying to shut down

00:37:47 ◼   ► the conversation on a general level.

00:37:48 ◼   ► I think we should move on for today,

00:37:49 ◼   ► but if listeners or if you two are interested

00:37:53 ◼   ► in anything that's going on,

00:37:54 ◼   ► I'm happy to talk about it in future episodes.

00:37:55 ◼   ► - I am.

00:37:56 ◼   ► We are sponsored this week by Linode,

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00:38:01 ◼   ► Visit linode.com/ATP and see why we all like it so much.

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00:38:07 ◼   ► you're probably pretty nerdy, we are and we know you are,

00:38:11 ◼   ► and there's probably a pretty good chance

00:38:13 ◼   ► that you need to run a server at some point.

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00:38:51 ◼   ► both big and small since 2003.

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00:39:38 ◼   ► and for sponsoring our show.

00:39:40 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:39:43 ◼   ► And now, this is the part where I go to sleep for a little while.

00:39:47 ◼   ► Let's talk about the Mac Pro.

00:39:49 ◼   ► It's been a little bit of an emotional roller coaster after the event.

00:39:52 ◼   ► I mean, I talked through this in the last episode,

00:39:54 ◼   ► but the things they said in the event could lead to various futures that would not make

00:40:01 ◼   ► me particularly happy or that don't make a lot of even sense to me.

00:40:05 ◼   ► So in one of my emotional low points since last week, I was thinking about a future ARM-based

00:40:14 ◼   ► Mac Pro that would be in keeping with everything Apple has said and everything that we know,

00:40:21 ◼   ► And it would also be extremely confusing and disappointing.

00:40:24 ◼   ► And it's this.

00:40:25 ◼   ► And I mentioned some of this in the last show,

00:40:27 ◼   ► but putting it all together after the show,

00:40:29 ◼   ► it's like, they could do this.

00:40:30 ◼   ► And it would fit with what they said.

00:40:33 ◼   ► So first is that it would just have the M1 Ultra in it.

00:40:36 ◼   ► That would fit with what they said,

00:40:37 ◼   ► because what they said is this is the last M1 chip, right?

00:40:41 ◼   ► And they also seem to be saying that their transition

00:40:45 ◼   ► is gonna complete more or less on schedule.

00:40:47 ◼   ► And it seems kind of unlikely that there's going to be

00:40:50 ◼   ► gigantic 40 core m2 based chip ready during that schedule again who knows but

00:40:55 ◼   ► it just seems unlikely at this point so yeah you could just have the m1 ultra

00:40:59 ◼   ► why is that disappointing well we've already got a computer with the m1 ultra

00:41:03 ◼   ► and it's called the Mac studio and you're gonna release a Mac Pro and it's

00:41:06 ◼   ► got the exact same chip in it that's not very pro it's like okay well then maybe

00:41:10 ◼   ► so let's flush out the rest of this machine I have PCI slots but in keeping

00:41:16 ◼   ► with Marcos pessimism, you have PCI slots,

00:41:18 ◼   ► but you can't put GPUs in them.

00:41:19 ◼   ► So the PCI slots would just be there for other things.

00:41:23 ◼   ► You can do lots of stuff with PCI slots,

00:41:25 ◼   ► but if you can't put GPUs in them, it's weird.

00:41:28 ◼   ► And of course, if it's got an M1 Ultra in it,

00:41:30 ◼   ► that means the max RAM is 128 gigs,

00:41:32 ◼   ► 'cause that's the maximum of the M1 Ultra.

00:41:35 ◼   ► And then if it's the Mac Pro and not the Mac Studio,

00:41:38 ◼   ► it would probably be more expensive,

00:41:39 ◼   ► 'cause it's the top-end machine.

00:41:41 ◼   ► and that Mac Pro, M1 Ultra only, max 128 gigs of RAM,

00:41:46 ◼   ► PCI slots with no GPU support,

00:41:48 ◼   ► bigger and more expensive than a Mac Studio,

00:41:50 ◼   ► that's not a good Mac Pro.

00:41:52 ◼   ► This is kind of a sad Mac Pro.

00:41:55 ◼   ► And it's a nonsensical, confusing Mac Pro

00:41:57 ◼   ► because how would Apple even advertise that Mac Pro?

00:42:01 ◼   ► Here's our new most powerful computer.

00:42:04 ◼   ► Buy this one for more money than this other one

00:42:08 ◼   ► and do everything at exactly the same speed

00:42:13 ◼   ► because it has the same system on the chip,

00:42:15 ◼   ► the same amount of RAM, no more GPU power,

00:42:18 ◼   ► but I guess you can put internal SSDs and stuff.

00:42:22 ◼   ► Or audio interface cards, which people tell me

00:42:25 ◼   ► they aren't even a thing anymore, but who knows?

00:42:28 ◼   ► That would be super disappointing,

00:42:29 ◼   ► and yet it would fit with all available information.

00:42:32 ◼   ► And so I was thinking about that and thinking,

00:42:34 ◼   ► God, I hope they don't do that.

00:42:35 ◼   ► And that led me down to dig myself out of that

00:42:38 ◼   ► sort of pit of despair of this just,

00:42:40 ◼   ► because what I'm basically describing is,

00:42:42 ◼   ► it's a Mac Studio, but bigger and more expensive

00:42:45 ◼   ► with card slots that are useless to everybody.

00:42:47 ◼   ► Almost everybody.

00:42:48 ◼   ► Card slots that are useless to almost everybody,

00:42:50 ◼   ► because honestly, what goes in the card slots?

00:42:52 ◼   ► Like afterburner card, which you don't need anymore

00:42:54 ◼   ► because they have that stuff on the system on a chip.

00:42:57 ◼   ► Tons of GPUs, if you look at what did Apple sell you

00:42:59 ◼   ► that you can put in those slots in the Mac Pro?

00:43:02 ◼   ► They sell tons of GPUs.

00:43:03 ◼   ► You can put four giant GPUs and everybody

00:43:05 ◼   ► to add two dual cards with the huge amounts of,

00:43:07 ◼   ► Like that's what Apple sells you to put in there.

00:43:09 ◼   ► And you can put other stuff in there like PCI,

00:43:12 ◼   ► PCI SSD cards, U.S. cards with more USB slots in them,

00:43:16 ◼   ► the aforementioned mythical audio interface cards.

00:43:20 ◼   ► There are other things you can put in there,

00:43:21 ◼   ► but GPUs are one of the big ones.

00:43:23 ◼   ► So to get myself out of this funk,

00:43:25 ◼   ► I said this, that can't be it.

00:43:26 ◼   ► There's gotta be something more,

00:43:29 ◼   ► there's gotta be something more to the Mac Pro.

00:43:32 ◼   ► And I was trying to convince myself

00:43:33 ◼   ► that maybe like a big M2 will be ready.

00:43:35 ◼   ► 'cause the low end M2s will come out around

00:43:38 ◼   ► the middle of the year with the new MacBook Air

00:43:40 ◼   ► and maybe the new Mac Mini will have an M2

00:43:44 ◼   ► and then new MacBook Pros maybe.

00:43:46 ◼   ► So maybe by the end of the year, maybe they will have an M2.

00:43:48 ◼   ► I just couldn't convince myself.

00:43:49 ◼   ► I couldn't convince myself that by the end of this year,

00:43:51 ◼   ► there's gonna be like a 40 core M2 base chip.

00:43:54 ◼   ► I may be wrong.

00:43:54 ◼   ► Again, all of my expectations are trained

00:43:57 ◼   ► based on like public Intel roadmaps

00:43:59 ◼   ► and the history and stuff like that,

00:44:00 ◼   ► but it just seems less likely to me.

00:44:03 ◼   ► So I was looking for something,

00:44:04 ◼   ► anything to make me feel better about the possibility of a Mac Pro that isn't stupid.

00:44:11 ◼   ► And luckily I was saved by another good video from Max Tech, as a YouTube video, we'll put

00:44:15 ◼   ► it in the show notes.

00:44:18 ◼   ► And it had a bunch of information.

00:44:19 ◼   ► Some of it was old that I thought was interesting and some of it was like possibly leading us

00:44:24 ◼   ► to some scenario where we could have a better Mac Pro.

00:44:29 ◼   ► So the first bit of older info is a patent that we'll put a link to in the show notes.

00:44:33 ◼   ► I couldn't find a good link for the patents.

00:44:35 ◼   ► I'm sure there's like a .gov site that has patents on it,

00:44:37 ◼   ► but I ended up going to patents.google.com

00:44:39 ◼   ► 'cause they had reasonable URLs

00:44:40 ◼   ► and it was easy to search, surprise.

00:44:42 ◼   ► So this is a patent describing how the M1 Pro and Max

00:44:47 ◼   ► and Ultra work, like chips we already know about.

00:44:53 ◼   ► And if my/max text understanding of this patent is correct,

00:44:57 ◼   ► there's one wrinkle to what we have discussed in the past.

00:45:01 ◼   ► So there's a photo associated with the patent.

00:45:04 ◼   ► You'll be able to look at it if you follow the link.

00:45:06 ◼   ► And it's like a big silicon wafer, which is a circle.

00:45:09 ◼   ► And then it's got little squares cut out.

00:45:11 ◼   ► And each one of those squares is basically jade seed dye.

00:45:14 ◼   ► And it shows how they'll print as many of those squares

00:45:18 ◼   ► as they can fit in the circle,

00:45:20 ◼   ► which is kind of a shame that silicon wafers are a circle.

00:45:22 ◼   ► I'm sure there's some important reason

00:45:23 ◼   ► they are having to do with manufacturability,

00:45:25 ◼   ► but the chips aren't circles,

00:45:25 ◼   ► so there's lots of wasted space.

00:45:26 ◼   ► But anyway, you got all these little squares.

00:45:29 ◼   ► And what they do with them is the way they get an ultra

00:45:33 ◼   ► is the two Jade Sea dyes that are next to each other

00:45:38 ◼   ► have to both be working.

00:45:40 ◼   ► So to get an ultra with all the stuff working,

00:45:42 ◼   ► it's not just that you need two maxes

00:45:44 ◼   ► with all the stuff working,

00:45:45 ◼   ► you need two maxes that were next to each other

00:45:48 ◼   ► on the wafer.

00:45:49 ◼   ► So apparently the interposer thing,

00:45:51 ◼   ► like they have to be next to each other.

00:45:52 ◼   ► - Wait, so does the interposer,

00:45:54 ◼   ► is the interposer being printed between all of them?

00:45:57 ◼   ► - I don't know the details,

00:45:58 ◼   ► So my understanding is what they're saying in the patent

00:46:01 ◼   ► that even if it's a second process or a second pass

00:46:04 ◼   ► or a third pass or whatever,

00:46:05 ◼   ► but they do actually have to be next to each other.

00:46:07 ◼   ► You can't just take these two random ones.

00:46:09 ◼   ► Like the video shows these two little things coming together

00:46:11 ◼   ► and being weaved together,

00:46:11 ◼   ► but that's just fanciful graphics things.

00:46:14 ◼   ► They have to actually be next to it.

00:46:15 ◼   ► Maybe they do try to print it between all of them,

00:46:17 ◼   ► or maybe they just look at which ones are good

00:46:20 ◼   ► and then print it on the ones that are good.

00:46:21 ◼   ► But either way, that explains a little bit

00:46:23 ◼   ► of why it's so much more expensive

00:46:25 ◼   ► to get an ultra with everything working on it,

00:46:30 ◼   ► because it's not just enough to have two maxes

00:46:32 ◼   ► with all the parts working.

00:46:33 ◼   ► They have to be two maxes that happen to be next to each other

00:46:35 ◼   ► and the odds of that are a lot lower.

00:46:36 ◼   ► You can look at this little diagram and do the math

00:46:38 ◼   ► if you're good at probability and figure out,

00:46:40 ◼   ► percentage-wise, how much less likely that is to happen.

00:46:43 ◼   ► And then of course, if you just have one of the squares

00:46:46 ◼   ► where everything works, that's a max where everything works.

00:46:48 ◼   ► If you get a square where only some of the stuff works,

00:46:49 ◼   ► that's a max with some cores missing.

00:46:51 ◼   ► And if you get a square with a whole bunch of stuff

00:46:52 ◼   ► that's screwed up, in theory, that's a pro

00:46:55 ◼   ► where they just remove the bottom part of it

00:46:57 ◼   ► and you don't even, I don't know if that's true.

00:46:58 ◼   ► I think they might print the pro separately,

00:46:59 ◼   ► but I might be wrong about that.

00:47:01 ◼   ► But either way, this was enlightening.

00:47:03 ◼   ► It doesn't make me feel that much better

00:47:05 ◼   ► about the increase in cost.

00:47:06 ◼   ► Like, oh, if I want all the GPU cores working,

00:47:09 ◼   ► it's an extra $1000, but I do have a little bit

00:47:11 ◼   ► more sympathy for the yields they must be getting.

00:47:13 ◼   ► But the other thing, looking at this,

00:47:15 ◼   ► is how clever the system is for cost control,

00:47:18 ◼   ► where you design one thing, you print it the best you can,

00:47:22 ◼   ► and then every single wafer, you get X number of maxes,

00:47:25 ◼   ► X number of pros, and X number of ultras,

00:47:28 ◼   ► and there's very little waste, right?

00:47:30 ◼   ► You don't have to throw anything out,

00:47:31 ◼   ► because if you have two ultras

00:47:32 ◼   ► and some part of it's screwed up,

00:47:34 ◼   ► maybe that's two maxes, maybe that's one max

00:47:36 ◼   ► with some stuff missing in a pro.

00:47:38 ◼   ► Every square on it, you're trying to get the best

00:47:41 ◼   ► that you can possibly get out of it.

00:47:42 ◼   ► And if you win the ultra lottery

00:47:43 ◼   ► and a bunch of ultras come out of a wafer, great,

00:47:45 ◼   ► but if not, you don't have to throw a lot of stuff away.

00:47:49 ◼   ► So I thought that was interesting.

00:47:50 ◼   ► So second patent vaguely related to that,

00:47:52 ◼   ► like this one as well, is,

00:47:55 ◼   ► again, I don't understand enough this to know,

00:47:57 ◼   ► Max Tech seemed confident in their interpretation.

00:47:59 ◼   ► I read it and my eyes glazed over.

00:48:01 ◼   ► I mean, jeez, I should make Casey,

00:48:03 ◼   ► to keep Casey awake, I should make him read this.

00:48:05 ◼   ► Can you, Casey, can you please read the highlighted portion

00:48:07 ◼   ► and see if this makes any sense to you whatsoever?

00:48:11 ◼   ► - What?

00:48:12 ◼   ► Sorry, did you need something?

00:48:13 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:48:14 ◼   ► - A communication path that travels up and down

00:48:15 ◼   ► between the first package level and the second package level

00:48:17 ◼   ► wherein a first group of one or more dies

00:48:19 ◼   ► and the first plurality of dies.

00:48:21 ◼   ► Function is both functional dies and stitching devices

00:48:25 ◼   ► for two or more of the second plurality of dies

00:48:28 ◼   ► and a second group of one or more dies.

00:48:30 ◼   ► And the second plurality of dies,

00:48:31 ◼   ► function is both functional dies and stitching devices

00:48:33 ◼   ► for two or more of the first plurality of dies.

00:48:36 ◼   ► I would not have been able to make heads or tails of this,

00:48:38 ◼   ► but I did do my research and I watched the Max Tech video

00:48:41 ◼   ► and it was very good.

00:48:42 ◼   ► And what Max Tech is saying, or their theory is,

00:48:47 ◼   ► you take two ultra, or you take one ultra,

00:48:50 ◼   ► which is itself two maxes,

00:48:52 ◼   ► and then below it, you put a second ultra.

00:48:56 ◼   ► So you have a total of four,

00:48:57 ◼   ► this is sounding familiar,

00:48:59 ◼   ► two above, two below.

00:49:00 ◼   ► What's better than 2D?

00:49:01 ◼   ► 3D, baby.

00:49:03 ◼   ► And so the theory is that they would,

00:49:06 ◼   ► they would be able to get around some of the problems

00:49:10 ◼   ► of things being physically distant from each other.

00:49:12 ◼   ► So to back up a half step,

00:49:14 ◼   ► let's say you had four M1 maxes laid in a row,

00:49:18 ◼   ► serially, if you will,

00:49:19 ◼   ► if you have to get data from the leftmost one

00:49:22 ◼   ► to the rightmost one, that actually takes some time

00:49:25 ◼   ► and you would potentially have to go via the other ones

00:49:28 ◼   ► to get that data across through all these different ties.

00:49:33 ◼   ► So what they're saying is,

00:49:34 ◼   ► and what MaxTech is theorizing is,

00:49:36 ◼   ► well, if we put them two on top of two,

00:49:38 ◼   ► then maybe we could make these

00:49:40 ◼   ► physically proximally closer

00:49:43 ◼   ► and we can stitch them together in such a way

00:49:47 ◼   ► that we get a Jade, what was it,

00:49:49 ◼   ► 4C die or something like that.

00:49:51 ◼   ► So it's a theory and it does make sense

00:49:54 ◼   ► to someone who does know a little bit about electronics,

00:49:58 ◼   ► but nothing about chip design.

00:49:59 ◼   ► So it's possible.

00:50:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, part of the problem with the Jade C die

00:50:05 ◼   ► is as far as we're aware of that whole,

00:50:06 ◼   ► like the place where the interposer is,

00:50:08 ◼   ► that's just on one edge.

00:50:10 ◼   ► There's other stuff on the other edges

00:50:11 ◼   ► that do other important things, right?

00:50:13 ◼   ► So if you try to put four of these down, if you just take an ultra and it's got the interposer

00:50:18 ◼   ► between them, where do you put the second ultra?

00:50:20 ◼   ► If you put it alongside, then it's not connected to the first ultra, right?

00:50:24 ◼   ► If you put it underneath, then the interposers are on top of each other.

00:50:27 ◼   ► And this patent is about connections made from one thing downwards to another.

00:50:32 ◼   ► All this weird patent language with plurality of dies and the weird language you have to

00:50:36 ◼   ► do, it's like Li Li is mixed with techno stuff.

00:50:39 ◼   ► If you ever read a patent, it doesn't read like a normal thing.

00:50:42 ◼   ► And I'm sure all that language is there for some important historical reason that this

00:50:46 ◼   ► is the way you have to do it for it to be well understood in the world of patents because

00:50:51 ◼   ► they use a certain language to do stuff.

00:50:53 ◼   ► But it just makes it confusing to try to read and figure what they're talking about.

00:50:57 ◼   ► Now tons of chips that Apple makes have various 3D layers and stacking like the TSMC makes

00:51:03 ◼   ► or whatever.

00:51:04 ◼   ► So that's not a new thing.

00:51:05 ◼   ► And it could be that this whole patent is just talking about that and has nothing to

00:51:08 ◼   ► do with taking two ultras and putting them on top of each other is just yet another system

00:51:11 ◼   ► for making layered integrated circuits, I don't know enough to know. But the reason I bring this

00:51:17 ◼   ► up is the idea that you could have two ultras that talk to each other relies on solving the problem

00:51:23 ◼   ► of "yeah, but how?" and the MaxTech video where I was thinking of letting them end to end, that

00:51:27 ◼   ► doesn't make any sense because there's nothing on the other ends to talk to each other at all.

00:51:32 ◼   ► Forget about the distance, which is a whole separate issue. There's nothing there to connect

00:51:37 ◼   ► or talk as far as I'm aware.

00:51:39 ◼   ► So it would have to be one on top of the other

00:51:41 ◼   ► or something slightly different.

00:51:43 ◼   ► But anyway, that would make a Mac Pro that is not stupid

00:51:48 ◼   ► because hey, it's two M1 Ultras

00:51:51 ◼   ► and that's twice as much stuff

00:51:52 ◼   ► and obviously you'd charge way more money for that

00:51:55 ◼   ► but it would also be able to do twice as much stuff

00:51:57 ◼   ► if you have a workload that can use all its execution units.

00:51:59 ◼   ► So that would be great.

00:52:00 ◼   ► That would make me feel a lot better

00:52:01 ◼   ► even if it still didn't use external GPUs, right?

00:52:04 ◼   ► Now, the final bit here related to this,

00:52:07 ◼   ► We're getting increasingly sketchily sourced rumors, right?

00:52:10 ◼   ► This is from Manjin Boo, I think this was on Twitter.

00:52:14 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know this person's rumor history or whatever.

00:52:19 ◼   ► But the tweet says, "Based on what my resource reports,

00:52:22 ◼   ► "here is some official information on the new Mac Pro 2022.

00:52:26 ◼   ► "This is the bridge that connects two and one ultra together

00:52:29 ◼   ► "and will be found in the new 2022 Mac Pro."

00:52:32 ◼   ► And there's an image in the tweet that you can look,

00:52:35 ◼   ► hopefully the tweet is still up.

00:52:36 ◼   ► So what the image is showing is

00:52:40 ◼   ► like a blueprint-ish looking diagram.

00:52:43 ◼   ► In the upper right corner,

00:52:44 ◼   ► there is a diagram that clearly looks like two M1 ultras

00:52:49 ◼   ► next to each other, side by side,

00:52:51 ◼   ► with a strip going down in the middle

00:52:53 ◼   ► where I guess that's where the magic happens,

00:52:55 ◼   ► where somehow there's this big vertical strip between them

00:52:58 ◼   ► that lets them talk to each other.

00:53:00 ◼   ► How?

00:53:01 ◼   ► I don't know, but there's a bunch of this,

00:53:03 ◼   ► The diagram's talking about daisy XL sub zero,

00:53:06 ◼   ► daisy XL sub two, and some other texts explaining

00:53:11 ◼   ► that daisy is the interconnect between the things.

00:53:13 ◼   ► It's basically saying, we can put them side by side,

00:53:16 ◼   ► and we'll put a strip of this magic stuff here,

00:53:18 ◼   ► and the magic stuff makes them talk to each other.

00:53:19 ◼   ► Et voila, you've got a four square M1 Ultra X2.

00:53:24 ◼   ► And according to this, the processor name is Redfern,

00:53:29 ◼   ► and it's coming in Mac Pros this September.

00:53:31 ◼   ► So there's a timeline, there's a code name,

00:53:34 ◼   ► there's a diagram with a topology.

00:53:36 ◼   ► It will be easy to assess which one of these rumors

00:53:40 ◼   ► is correct because eventually a Mac Pro will come out.

00:53:43 ◼   ► And the first thing to look at is,

00:53:44 ◼   ► does it have more in it than an M1 Ultra?

00:53:46 ◼   ► Like does it have two M1 Ultras in it, right?

00:53:49 ◼   ► If it doesn't, then everyone will be sad.

00:53:51 ◼   ► If it does have two M1 Ultras,

00:53:53 ◼   ► how are they physically laid out?

00:53:55 ◼   ► Are they on top of each other or are they side by side?

00:53:57 ◼   ► And that will sort of let us know

00:54:01 ◼   ► which one of these people was closer to reality.

00:54:03 ◼   ► But I, and the reason I did all this digging,

00:54:05 ◼   ► 'cause I just wanna believe that there's gonna be

00:54:07 ◼   ► two M1 Ultras in there.

00:54:08 ◼   ► 'Cause M1 Ultra makes sense,

00:54:11 ◼   ► two M1 Ultras make sense to me,

00:54:12 ◼   ► and Apple can paper over it by saying,

00:54:16 ◼   ► we didn't lie when we said this was the last M1 chip,

00:54:18 ◼   ► it really is, and now you have two of them,

00:54:20 ◼   ► two of the, but.

00:54:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna say,

00:54:24 ◼   ► and I don't recall if we talked about this last episode,

00:54:26 ◼   ► but it is not entirely unreasonable for them to say,

00:54:29 ◼   ► look, we told you that what makes an M1 Ultra so ultra and amazing is that it is perceived

00:54:36 ◼   ► to be one chip by the operating system and so on and so forth. Well, this, you know,

00:54:42 ◼   ► M1 Ultra, Mega, Max, you know, Voltron, whatever, this is two, this is two chips. So we didn't

00:54:50 ◼   ► lie. It's two chips. It's perceived to the OS as two chips. But you know, we've been

00:54:55 ◼   ► doing this on and off for years. So it's, it's something we're used to. And now it's

00:54:59 ◼   ► It's almost like having two whole computers in one.

00:55:00 ◼   ► And I don't think that's necessarily unreasonable,

00:55:04 ◼   ► especially if, like I said,

00:55:06 ◼   ► this is perceived by the operating system

00:55:07 ◼   ► as being two different processors.

00:55:09 ◼   ► - Well, you still got the NAMA thing, though.

00:55:11 ◼   ► So you can say this is two different processors.

00:55:13 ◼   ► We made dual processor computers before.

00:55:15 ◼   ► That's not a big deal.

00:55:17 ◼   ► At no point did each one of those processors

00:55:19 ◼   ► have its own private pool of memory that was attached to it.

00:55:23 ◼   ► And this diagram, by the way, doesn't address that.

00:55:25 ◼   ► The second diagram that shows the two M1 ultras

00:55:27 ◼   ► right next to each other,

00:55:28 ◼   ► Where's the RAM in that picture?

00:55:30 ◼   ► Because if you look at an actual M1 Ultra,

00:55:32 ◼   ► it's not just the two maxes attached to each other,

00:55:35 ◼   ► it's two maxes attached to each other,

00:55:37 ◼   ► flanked on both sides by RAM chips.

00:55:39 ◼   ► Where are the RAM chips in this diagram?

00:55:41 ◼   ► Where did they go?

00:55:42 ◼   ► 'Cause this looks like it would be addressable as one chip

00:55:44 ◼   ► and the RAM would be around it or something.

00:55:45 ◼   ► And then how can Apple get it,

00:55:47 ◼   ► we were calling that two M1 Ultras?

00:55:49 ◼   ► When it, it's really confusing and upsetting to me

00:55:54 ◼   ► and I don't know how this is gonna turn out.

00:55:56 ◼   ► What it's making me think is,

00:55:58 ◼   ► is no matter how this turns out,

00:56:00 ◼   ► that it's either gonna be a crappy computer

00:56:02 ◼   ► that I don't wanna buy,

00:56:03 ◼   ► or it's gonna be something that's just too much money

00:56:06 ◼   ► and I'm gonna end up getting a MacStudio.

00:56:09 ◼   ► - I mean, so the RAM thing I think might help

00:56:14 ◼   ► steer this one way or the other,

00:56:15 ◼   ► because what if,

00:56:18 ◼   ► I wouldn't say it wouldn't have unified RAM,

00:56:21 ◼   ► but what if it has RAM slots?

00:56:23 ◼   ► Because I, you know, looking at the gap

00:56:27 ◼   ► between the current Mac Pro and the Mac Studio.

00:56:31 ◼   ► In certain areas, the Mac Studio is already way past it.

00:56:34 ◼   ► In certain areas, the Mac Studio can't compete with it yet.

00:56:38 ◼   ► Like it doesn't, it can't reach those levels.

00:56:41 ◼   ► And I think the area that has the biggest discrepancy

00:56:44 ◼   ► is not GPU performance, it's the RAM ceiling.

00:56:48 ◼   ► And you know, the current Mac Pro has a RAM ceiling

00:56:49 ◼   ► of 1.5 terabytes, right, isn't that right?

00:56:52 ◼   ► The Mac Studio maxes out at 128 gigs.

00:56:55 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

00:56:57 ◼   ► - That's a pretty big gap.

00:57:00 ◼   ► And I can't imagine that by going from two dies to four,

00:57:05 ◼   ► we would somehow multiply the RAM ceiling by 10.

00:57:11 ◼   ► I don't see how that works with keeping everything

00:57:15 ◼   ► made the same way that it's been made.

00:57:17 ◼   ► Now, I am as big a skeptic as they come

00:57:22 ◼   ► about the next Mac Pro being super expandable.

00:57:25 ◼   ► You know, I don't think there's going to be a lot of, you know, slots or GPU, like I it

00:57:31 ◼   ► would be surprising to me if there was ever the support for a slotted GPU, for instance,

00:57:37 ◼   ► I don't think that's going to happen. However, I do think there might be RAM slots, because

00:57:43 ◼   ► I don't see how they keep the same memory packaging strategy with all the other M1 family

00:57:51 ◼   ► while replacing the Intel Mac Pro

00:57:53 ◼   ► without having severe ramifications for its use

00:57:57 ◼   ► in things like scientific computing,

00:57:59 ◼   ► which is, I don't know how big this market is,

00:58:01 ◼   ► but among people who buy the current ridiculous

00:58:04 ◼   ► Intel Mac Pro, that is some part of that group,

00:58:08 ◼   ► and that's some part that, look,

00:58:09 ◼   ► if you need a terabyte of RAM,

00:58:11 ◼   ► or even just more than 128 gigs of RAM in a Mac,

00:58:15 ◼   ► right now you have no option except that Mac Pro,

00:58:18 ◼   ► and to get rid of that option in the future,

00:58:20 ◼   ► I think without having something that could replace,

00:58:23 ◼   ► that could even come close to that ceiling of resources

00:58:27 ◼   ► in this one area, I think that would be kind of crappy

00:58:31 ◼   ► for the lineup and for the specialty needs that need that.

00:58:36 ◼   ► So I think we are very likely to see something different

00:58:41 ◼   ► about the next Mac Pro that does not follow

00:58:44 ◼   ► the restrictions of the other MX series up to this point.

00:58:49 ◼   ► to this point.

00:58:50 ◼   ► And I think RAM slots are the most likely thing to see.

00:58:53 ◼   ► That again, I'm not super optimistic about card slots,

00:58:58 ◼   ► especially not for GPUs.

00:59:00 ◼   ► As you mentioned, the various options

00:59:04 ◼   ► for whether it has card slots or not,

00:59:05 ◼   ► one of them doesn't have card slots at all.

00:59:08 ◼   ► Honestly, I think that's the most likely.

00:59:10 ◼   ► And one of them is it has card slots

00:59:11 ◼   ► that don't support GPUs.

00:59:13 ◼   ► I think that's second most likely.

00:59:15 ◼   ► And then I think the least likely is the support GPUs

00:59:19 ◼   ► like we have them now. I don't see that happening. But I do think that, you know, what we have

00:59:26 ◼   ► in terms of RAM with the M1s, I don't see how we reach one and a half terabytes with the current

00:59:34 ◼   ► architecture unless the Mac Pro version of it supports socketed RAM. Now, I think they could

00:59:40 ◼   ► still do unified RAM because the RAM that is next to the package in the M1 or in package, I guess,

00:59:47 ◼   ► or whatever it is, that's not some like magical RAM type

00:59:50 ◼   ► that doesn't exist in the rest of the PC world.

00:59:52 ◼   ► Isn't it just like DDR5 something, whatever?

00:59:54 ◼   ► - No, it's HBM2 or something.

00:59:56 ◼   ► I think it's the high bandwidth memory.

00:59:58 ◼   ► Like it is, that's the thing.

01:00:00 ◼   ► Like a lot of the amazing performance of the M1 series

01:00:03 ◼   ► has to do with that unified RAM.

01:00:05 ◼   ► It is very fast, it is very close,

01:00:07 ◼   ► and obviously it's shared between the CPU and the GPU.

01:00:12 ◼   ► As soon as you go to external pools of it,

01:00:15 ◼   ► it gets more distant, physically speaking,

01:00:17 ◼   ► and metaphorically speaking, the bandwidth goes down

01:00:20 ◼   ► or becomes much more expensive

01:00:21 ◼   ► to try to maintain the same bandwidth,

01:00:23 ◼   ► because as they said in the thing,

01:00:24 ◼   ► like 800 gigabytes per second is like 10 times a high-end PC

01:00:28 ◼   ► and I think you lose a lot of the performance.

01:00:31 ◼   ► Like, I mean, what I keep thinking about this machine is,

01:00:33 ◼   ► Apple has to say something to sell it.

01:00:35 ◼   ► They have to say, here's this machine,

01:00:36 ◼   ► here's why you should buy it.

01:00:37 ◼   ► And they've made their job hard

01:00:38 ◼   ► by putting out the Mac Studio,

01:00:40 ◼   ► because to sell this machine

01:00:42 ◼   ► that presumably will be more expensive than the Mac Studio,

01:00:46 ◼   ► It has to do something better than the Mac Studio.

01:00:49 ◼   ► Now you mentioned the RAM ceiling.

01:00:50 ◼   ► Let's say it has slots and it has a bigger RAM ceiling on it.

01:00:54 ◼   ► Are there applications that Apple cares about

01:00:57 ◼   ► or would mention in an advertisement

01:00:58 ◼   ► or are common enough where they would say,

01:01:01 ◼   ► you couldn't do this on a Mac Studio

01:01:02 ◼   ► because it won't fit in RAM, but on this machine

01:01:04 ◼   ► it will because we can have 768 gigs of RAM or whatever.

01:01:08 ◼   ► Because I don't think many people

01:01:09 ◼   ► are buying the 1.5 terabyte except for a few rare instances.

01:01:12 ◼   ► But I think there are use cases that won't fit in 128,

01:01:16 ◼   ► but I think that the number tails off real fast

01:01:19 ◼   ► when you go up to 256 or maybe even 512.

01:01:21 ◼   ► Because I think you're mostly limited

01:01:25 ◼   ► for the RAM on these systematic chips

01:01:26 ◼   ► by the max size of that little square chip

01:01:29 ◼   ► you can put in there.

01:01:30 ◼   ► And that does go up over time.

01:01:32 ◼   ► So even though you can only fit 128 around it now

01:01:34 ◼   ► using the best available little RAM chippy thing

01:01:36 ◼   ► that fits in the thing, eventually that number might double.

01:01:39 ◼   ► Right, so I am wondering,

01:01:42 ◼   ► I don't think they would sacrifice memory bandwidth

01:01:47 ◼   ► and latency for capacity unless there was some use case

01:01:52 ◼   ► that we already know about where capacity is super important

01:01:55 ◼   ► because again, they have to advertise this somehow.

01:01:57 ◼   ► And I think that machine that you described

01:01:58 ◼   ► with external RAM plots would do almost everything worse

01:02:01 ◼   ► than the Mac Studio.

01:02:02 ◼   ► - I don't know, I mean, it wouldn't,

01:02:04 ◼   ► again, I haven't followed like what the different

01:02:06 ◼   ► PC RAM specs are these days.

01:02:08 ◼   ► So I don't know what's available and what's not.

01:02:10 ◼   ► But it wouldn't surprise me to glue two M1 Maxes together,

01:02:15 ◼   ► they invented their own custom interconnect.

01:02:18 ◼   ► What if they had their own custom RAM socket protocol

01:02:21 ◼   ► and controller, I don't know.

01:02:23 ◼   ► I wouldn't put it past them at this point.

01:02:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, Chatter I'm saying that it's actually LPDDR5

01:02:28 ◼   ► and not HBM, but it's just very wide.

01:02:30 ◼   ► The fact that it's just sort of wired next to the thing

01:02:33 ◼   ► and has the massive bandwidth,

01:02:34 ◼   ► because it's got these multiple,

01:02:35 ◼   ► and the thing about the bandwidth,

01:02:36 ◼   ► it's got multiple memory controllers,

01:02:39 ◼   ► and each time you add a memory controller,

01:02:40 ◼   ► you have that much bandwidth,

01:02:41 ◼   ► and so it's not like it has that much bandwidth

01:02:43 ◼   ► to every piece of memory, I think.

01:02:44 ◼   ► I think that's how much bandwidth it has in aggregate

01:02:47 ◼   ► across all the chips that are wired up.

01:02:48 ◼   ► Not that it really matters,

01:02:49 ◼   ► 'cause it's not like you're physically

01:02:50 ◼   ► addressing memory anyway,

01:02:51 ◼   ► but just keeping that in mind,

01:02:53 ◼   ► that the reason the bandwidth keeps going up

01:02:54 ◼   ► is because when you add a second max,

01:02:57 ◼   ► that second max also has its own memory interfaces

01:02:59 ◼   ► to its own private memory,

01:03:01 ◼   ► and the whole making it look like one chip

01:03:02 ◼   ► is the magic that, you know,

01:03:03 ◼   ► instead of it just looking like

01:03:04 ◼   ► one max with 400 gigabytes per second

01:03:06 ◼   ► and a second max with 400 gigabytes,

01:03:08 ◼   ► it looks like one chip that has 800,

01:03:09 ◼   ► but really the lower Max has 400 to its RAM,

01:03:12 ◼   ► and you know, it's not its RAM, you know what I mean.

01:03:14 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:03:15 ◼   ► - Like that is kind of magical,

01:03:16 ◼   ► but I don't see how you weave two of them together,

01:03:19 ◼   ► and say with the straight face of the M1 Ultra

01:03:22 ◼   ► was your last thing, unless they're just gonna say,

01:03:23 ◼   ► just kidding, ha ha, remember we said it was our last one,

01:03:25 ◼   ► well surprise, it's not.

01:03:28 ◼   ► But how can it be a surprise,

01:03:29 ◼   ► you told us the Mac Pro was coming, like.

01:03:30 ◼   ► - Well they didn't say the Mac Pro

01:03:31 ◼   ► was gonna have M1 series chips in it.

01:03:33 ◼   ► - Yep, I know, I mean, obviously I said it,

01:03:35 ◼   ► the M1 is anything Apple says,

01:03:37 ◼   ► you can just call it the X1, you're like,

01:03:38 ◼   ► Problem solved, see, we just did a different letter.

01:03:41 ◼   ► - One line of dialogue.

01:03:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, marketing solves all these problems too.

01:03:45 ◼   ► But I keep thinking, is it plausible

01:03:48 ◼   ► for an M2 based thing to, 'cause the thing about the M2 is,

01:03:51 ◼   ► I think the rumors of it is having slightly more

01:03:53 ◼   ► execution units, more cores, right?

01:03:55 ◼   ► 'Cause it's three nanometer instead of five,

01:03:57 ◼   ► so you can fit more cores in the same power envelope.

01:04:00 ◼   ► And which would mean that the biggest size,

01:04:03 ◼   ► like the M2 Ultra would have more cores than the M1 Ultra,

01:04:05 ◼   ► and there again is your differentiation.

01:04:07 ◼   ► You could say, oh, well, how is this better

01:04:08 ◼   ► than the Mac Studio?

01:04:09 ◼   ► Well, it's got more cores.

01:04:10 ◼   ► But the real problem is if you can make

01:04:13 ◼   ► like an M2 based, you know, ultra for the new Mac Pro,

01:04:18 ◼   ► you can also make it for the Mac Studio.

01:04:20 ◼   ► Now there you are again with no differentiation.

01:04:21 ◼   ► Like what makes the Mac Pro different than the Mac Studios?

01:04:25 ◼   ► The big mystery that is weighing on my mind.

01:04:28 ◼   ► - You're very worked up about this, Jon.

01:04:30 ◼   ► - I am, 'cause it's potentially my next computer, or not.

01:04:32 ◼   ► Like, I mean, here's the thing.

01:04:33 ◼   ► If I wait around and the thing comes out

01:04:35 ◼   ► and it's disappointing or it's too expensive

01:04:37 ◼   ► or whatever, then I just end up buying a MacStudio.

01:04:40 ◼   ► It's like, well, then why did I wait a year

01:04:41 ◼   ► to buy a MacStudio?

01:04:42 ◼   ► - Because you're trying to get a lot of use

01:04:44 ◼   ► out of your existing $15,000 Mac Pro?

01:04:46 ◼   ► - I know, I know.

01:04:47 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:04:48 ◼   ► - Too soon, too soon.

01:04:50 ◼   ► I don't know, so if you were to buy a MacStudio today

01:04:55 ◼   ► for you, how do you think you would spec it?

01:04:58 ◼   ► - It should be delivered in approximately November.

01:05:00 ◼   ► - Well, there's that.

01:05:01 ◼   ► - The dates on the MacStudios are ridiculous at this point,

01:05:03 ◼   ► but all right, so how would I configure it?

01:05:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, like can we, you wanna walk through it real quick?

01:05:07 ◼   ► I'm curious, if you were to buy one,

01:05:10 ◼   ► how would you configure it for you?

01:05:12 ◼   ► - I mean, honestly, I think my cheapness and patience

01:05:16 ◼   ► would kick in and I would say,

01:05:18 ◼   ► my Mac Pro's fine for me for a while.

01:05:19 ◼   ► - I know, I know, but work with me on this, please.

01:05:21 ◼   ► I know you love hypotheticals.

01:05:23 ◼   ► - If I was forced to do it, if someone stole my Mac Pro

01:05:25 ◼   ► and I had to buy a new computer,

01:05:26 ◼   ► I wouldn't obviously buy another Mac Pro.

01:05:28 ◼   ► I'd be very sad about it being stolen.

01:05:30 ◼   ► But anyway, I would probably max it out,

01:05:32 ◼   ► 'cause I would like, I would get 128,

01:05:35 ◼   ► I would get the M1 Ultra.

01:05:37 ◼   ► I wouldn't get the terabyte SSD, I'd get four terabyte SSD.

01:05:40 ◼   ► Those are basically the only options, right?

01:05:41 ◼   ► - Maxed out GPU cores?

01:05:43 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:05:43 ◼   ► I mean, 'cause I don't, and it would be very expensive,

01:05:46 ◼   ► but like, and I don't know, I don't quite know

01:05:48 ◼   ► what I would do with those GPU cores,

01:05:50 ◼   ► 'cause I wouldn't be able to play Windows games

01:05:52 ◼   ► on it anymore, but I would be like,

01:05:53 ◼   ► well, something will use them.

01:05:55 ◼   ► Like, there are some Mac games, even Apple Arcade does it.

01:05:59 ◼   ► Sometimes I forget that Apple Arcade stuff

01:06:00 ◼   ► is all available on the Mac.

01:06:01 ◼   ► I spent a while on Apple Arcade on my Mac the other day

01:06:03 ◼   ► thing. These games that I play on my phone and my iPad, can I play them in 6K? And the

01:06:09 ◼   ► answer to a lot of them is, yeah, you can. And you can't play them on 6K on your phone,

01:06:14 ◼   ► so there's things that Macs can do with GPU cores. But yeah, I would probably get everything

01:06:18 ◼   ► maxed out. So if I'm doing this right, looking at the

01:06:20 ◼   ► website, that's $6,800, which is like half the cost of your existing computer, and like

01:06:26 ◼   ► twice as fast. And I don't have to buy a monitor.

01:06:28 ◼   ► And you don't have to buy a monitor. That's the important part. It's so cheap. I should

01:06:31 ◼   ► buy an upgrade every year now.

01:06:33 ◼   ► Just keep using the same monitor with all these computers.

01:06:35 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:06:36 ◼   ► - Honestly, there's something to be said for that.

01:06:38 ◼   ► I know that's not your style,

01:06:39 ◼   ► but there's something to be said for that.

01:06:40 ◼   ► I've actually wondered a lot,

01:06:42 ◼   ► since I love my MacBook Pro, if you will,

01:06:46 ◼   ► I just adore this machine so much.

01:06:49 ◼   ► Hi, Steven Hackett, I know you love that.

01:06:52 ◼   ► - I'm just hearing, I'm feeling the collective groan

01:06:56 ◼   ► from all of our audience when they hit this point

01:06:57 ◼   ► and hear that.

01:06:58 ◼   ► - Let me tell you, so I don't change the name

01:07:00 ◼   ► of Macintosh HD, but my computer name is Casey's Maxbook Pro.

01:07:05 ◼   ► And you know it, and you love it.

01:07:06 ◼   ► But anyway, I love this thing so much.

01:07:09 ◼   ► And I've wondered to myself, when this M2 comes out,

01:07:14 ◼   ► would I pull a Marco and upgrade this less than a year old,

01:07:18 ◼   ► or perhaps a year old 14-inch Maxbook Pro?

01:07:21 ◼   ► And I don't think I would, mostly because I'm cheap.

01:07:24 ◼   ► But if the M2 was that compelling,

01:07:27 ◼   ► Would I start to get myself on a yearly or every other year plan?

01:07:32 ◼   ► I don't think I'll ever get to the point of as often as I change my underwear like Marco, but I could see myself

01:07:38 ◼   ► you know money notwithstanding, which is a big if, I could see myself wanting to upgrade my laptops

01:07:45 ◼   ► more frequently than I used to in the past if the gains continue to be as big as they have been.

01:07:50 ◼   ► And I think the question I need to, or the thing I need to look into to answer this, which I haven't done, is

01:07:55 ◼   ► is what's the difference between the A14 and the A15, right?

01:07:58 ◼   ► Because the A14 core is what's powering the M1,

01:08:02 ◼   ► if I'm not mistaken, and we're up to A15 this year, right?

01:08:07 ◼   ► So maybe even the A16 would potentially, probably not,

01:08:10 ◼   ► but potentially be in the M2.

01:08:12 ◼   ► So what are those differences?

01:08:14 ◼   ► And I can look into this.

01:08:15 ◼   ► I'm not asking for feedback,

01:08:16 ◼   ► but I think it's something that I've asked myself,

01:08:20 ◼   ► would I be on a far more regular upgrade cycle

01:08:23 ◼   ► than I ever have been because the chips might be getting

01:08:27 ◼   ► that much better every year or every other year.

01:08:29 ◼   ► - I don't think the chips would make you upgrade.

01:08:31 ◼   ► I think it's the chips are not gonna give you the bump

01:08:33 ◼   ► you just got from going from Intel to this.

01:08:35 ◼   ► What would make you upgrade is if like,

01:08:36 ◼   ► and I don't think this is gonna particularly happen,

01:08:38 ◼   ► but if it did happen, this would make you upgrade.

01:08:40 ◼   ► It would be like, "Oh, it's got cellular and face ID,"

01:08:42 ◼   ► or something like that, or "No more notch," right?

01:08:44 ◼   ► Those are the type of things that are gonna get you

01:08:46 ◼   ► in the door, not compile 15% faster,

01:08:48 ◼   ► 'cause after a year, I don't think you're gonna have

01:08:51 ◼   ► complaints about this.

01:08:52 ◼   ► "Oh, my computer feels so slow."

01:08:53 ◼   ► Like, it's not, you know, that's not gonna happen.

01:08:56 ◼   ► - I would insta-buy for either,

01:08:59 ◼   ► I don't know if I would for Face ID actually,

01:09:00 ◼   ► but I would absolutely insta-buy for cellular,

01:09:02 ◼   ► without question.

01:09:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, I probably would too.

01:09:04 ◼   ► That's a big deal. (laughs)

01:09:07 ◼   ► But I'll have to decide which laptop would get it.

01:09:09 ◼   ► Hmm. (laughs)

01:09:11 ◼   ► - Oh no, now I'm miserable like John, no!

01:09:14 ◼   ► No! (laughs)

01:09:15 ◼   ► - No, and this is,

01:09:18 ◼   ► Despite my reputation here,

01:09:22 ◼   ► I actually don't usually upgrade my Macs that frequently

01:09:27 ◼   ► outside of like, the butterfly keyboard

01:09:30 ◼   ► is destroying my life, maybe this next one will be better.

01:09:33 ◼   ► And then, oh, then architecture changes.

01:09:35 ◼   ► It's been a frequent update cycle for me recently,

01:09:38 ◼   ► but usually I get a few years out of my Macs,

01:09:39 ◼   ► especially my desktop Macs.

01:09:42 ◼   ► Those tend to last a while.

01:09:43 ◼   ► And because really, year to year,

01:09:46 ◼   ► Mac updates are not that different.

01:09:48 ◼   ► Year to year, when the new iPhones come out,

01:09:51 ◼   ► and we're all, they've tried out all these cool features,

01:09:55 ◼   ► and we're all wowed by the marketing.

01:09:57 ◼   ► I'm like, oh my God, I have to have that new camera.

01:09:59 ◼   ► Oh, I have to have this new thing.

01:10:01 ◼   ► It's a huge difference, and it's palpable,

01:10:04 ◼   ► like how much you want that.

01:10:06 ◼   ► Usually, when a Mac update comes out,

01:10:08 ◼   ► that is generally just like a spec bump update,

01:10:12 ◼   ► you don't usually have that, oh my God,

01:10:14 ◼   ► I have to have that right now,

01:10:16 ◼   ► because the one I have from last year or two years ago

01:10:19 ◼   ► is so much worse.

01:10:20 ◼   ► Like no, it's usually, it's like okay,

01:10:21 ◼   ► you can buy this new one and it might be like 15% faster

01:10:24 ◼   ► or something, it's not gonna be like a huge, huge difference.

01:10:28 ◼   ► You know, right now we're going through this period

01:10:30 ◼   ► of turmoil where you know, the architecture transition

01:10:32 ◼   ► and everything, it's a big deal, we're getting big gains

01:10:34 ◼   ► and big changes, but that's about to slow down,

01:10:37 ◼   ► I think to a pretty large degree.

01:10:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think you're probably right.

01:10:41 ◼   ► - And also phones are only like a thousand bucks,

01:10:42 ◼   ► which is a lot for a phone, but it's nothing for a Mac.

01:10:45 ◼   ► And phones, especially after one or two years,

01:10:48 ◼   ► the batteries start to get a little cranky,

01:10:50 ◼   ► whereas even a laptop battery tends to not fall off a cliff

01:10:53 ◼   ► the way phones can do if you use them hard for a few years.

01:10:57 ◼   ► So the urge to upgrade to a new phone is easier to give into

01:11:02 ◼   ► and it makes a little bit more sense than buying,

01:11:04 ◼   ► especially it's not like we're buying,

01:11:06 ◼   ► none of us are buying $1,000 Macs,

01:11:07 ◼   ► even though you can buy $1,000 Mac,

01:11:09 ◼   ► those aren't the ones that we're buying.

01:11:10 ◼   ► So being on an annual upgrade cycle

01:11:12 ◼   ► for something that expensive for a 15% gain

01:11:14 ◼   ► doesn't really make much sense.

01:11:17 ◼   ► That's fair.

01:11:17 ◼   ► But it's a fun thing to think about.

01:11:19 ◼   ► Until Marco dropped that, what Mac does cellular go in?

01:11:22 ◼   ► Oh my gosh.

01:11:23 ◼   ► Can you imagine if they did like a cellular--

01:11:25 ◼   ► the only Mac that gets a cellular modem

01:11:28 ◼   ► is like the adorable round two.

01:11:30 ◼   ► So somehow it's like slower than dirt.

01:11:32 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know why it would be slower than dirt,

01:11:34 ◼   ► but hypothetically, you know.

01:11:35 ◼   ► So it's like this complete compromised machine,

01:11:37 ◼   ► but it's got cellular, baby.

01:11:38 ◼   ► Oh, it'd be so sad.

01:11:39 ◼   ► I don't think you have to worry about it,

01:11:40 ◼   ► because I don't think Apple's ever

01:11:41 ◼   ► going to add cellular to a Mac.

01:11:42 ◼   ► See what I'm doing, Apple?

01:11:43 ◼   ► - Making you do it to prove me wrong.

01:11:45 ◼   ► Look at this sound clip.

01:11:46 ◼   ► You said they would never do it.

01:11:47 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:11:49 ◼   ► I don't know if that or another psychology will work,

01:11:51 ◼   ► but something's gotta work,

01:11:52 ◼   ► 'cause it just seems like they have no interest

01:11:53 ◼   ► in ever doing this.

01:11:55 ◼   ► - I think it's one of those things

01:11:56 ◼   ► like on a very long time scale,

01:11:57 ◼   ► I think they probably will on an infinite time scale.

01:12:00 ◼   ► They probably will do it,

01:12:02 ◼   ► but they're gonna take their sweet time,

01:12:03 ◼   ► because they're probably waiting

01:12:05 ◼   ► until they don't have to pay Qualcomm some royalty thing.

01:12:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, oh yeah.

01:12:08 ◼   ► - Oh, that's a really good point.

01:12:09 ◼   ► - Well, but you say that,

01:12:11 ◼   ► but they eat that cost on iPads, for crying out loud.

01:12:14 ◼   ► They can't eat that cost on a $5,000 MacBook Pro,

01:12:16 ◼   ► it's because it's a percentage of price

01:12:17 ◼   ► of the product or whatever?

01:12:18 ◼   ► - Maybe, 'cause, yeah, we've heard that that is

01:12:21 ◼   ► like the rumor that it was percentage of price,

01:12:23 ◼   ► but like, I don't know, I mean, they've charged,

01:12:25 ◼   ► you know, they charge 120 bucks or 130 bucks for it

01:12:28 ◼   ► on the iPad from the very first $500 iPad

01:12:31 ◼   ► all the way up to the, you know, whatever,

01:12:34 ◼   ► what's the biggest iPad, like $1,500 now?

01:12:37 ◼   ► Like, you know, they charge basically

01:12:38 ◼   ► the same price for all that, so, I mean, yeah,

01:12:40 ◼   ► If they charge 200 bucks on a Mac, great.

01:12:43 ◼   ► I'd still buy it, like that would be great.

01:12:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean you would, but you know, anyway.

01:12:47 ◼   ► The Apple, I don't know if this is,

01:12:48 ◼   ► if the upcoming iPhone is at the year

01:12:50 ◼   ► when Apple's 5G chips are gonna be ready

01:12:52 ◼   ► or are we waiting one more year?

01:12:53 ◼   ► I haven't kept track of it.

01:12:54 ◼   ► We've talked about this in the past in the show,

01:12:56 ◼   ► but Apple is 100% making its own cellular radio chips.

01:13:00 ◼   ► It just takes a long time 'cause it's really hard.

01:13:01 ◼   ► But the second they can do it, rest assured,

01:13:04 ◼   ► they will be off Qualcomm and onto their own chips.

01:13:06 ◼   ► I just, I like that they're taking their time

01:13:08 ◼   ► because I don't want them to rush out the door

01:13:10 ◼   ► with a crappy chip that's worse than the Qualcomm ones.

01:13:13 ◼   ► So yeah, take your time, make sure you get it right.

01:13:16 ◼   ► Test it really well, test it directly

01:13:17 ◼   ► against the Qualcomm competition.

01:13:18 ◼   ► When it is as reliable, but you own it

01:13:21 ◼   ► and don't have to pay royalties,

01:13:22 ◼   ► then please ship on every single device you make.

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01:15:27 ◼   ► - So in the last few days,

01:15:33 ◼   ► all the betas are no longer beta,

01:15:35 ◼   ► and now they are out, what is this, 15.4?

01:15:38 ◼   ► Is that right?

01:15:39 ◼   ► I don't even remember anymore, something like that.

01:15:41 ◼   ► In the new version of whatever ridiculous California name

01:15:44 ◼   ► we're on, God, I am a mess.

01:15:45 ◼   ► What are we on, Monterey?

01:15:46 ◼   ► So it's 12.3 and 15.4.

01:15:48 ◼   ► And now we can do universal control,

01:15:51 ◼   ► which I have played with very briefly.

01:15:54 ◼   ► Jon, I think you played with at least a little bit,

01:15:57 ◼   ► and Marco, you haven't had a chance to play with it yet,

01:15:59 ◼   ► is that right?

01:16:00 ◼   ► - Honestly, I don't really keep an iPad

01:16:03 ◼   ► next to me on my desk.

01:16:04 ◼   ► And I typically don't either.

01:16:06 ◼   ► - Actually, at the moment I don't have an iPad.

01:16:07 ◼   ► That's a whole separate issue.

01:16:08 ◼   ► - Well, let me talk to you about it.

01:16:10 ◼   ► Let me tell you the good word about it.

01:16:12 ◼   ► So Casey mentioned that the things are out of beta.

01:16:13 ◼   ► What he means is that Mac OS and iOS and iPad OS

01:16:16 ◼   ► are out of beta, but Universal Control,

01:16:18 ◼   ► which ships in the non-beta version

01:16:20 ◼   ► of those operating systems, is itself still beta

01:16:22 ◼   ► with a tiny little beta tag next to all the little things

01:16:24 ◼   ► just to let you know this might not work.

01:16:26 ◼   ► So yeah, Universal Control, the thing demoed so long ago

01:16:29 ◼   ► that people might have forgotten about it.

01:16:31 ◼   ► Drag your cursor off the edge of the screen

01:16:32 ◼   ► and watch it burst through the edge of your iPad screen.

01:16:35 ◼   ► I don't keep an iPad near my Mac either.

01:16:37 ◼   ► I keep it in a whole different room in the house,

01:16:40 ◼   ► but I brought the iPad down here to try it out.

01:16:43 ◼   ► It's super cool and it works magically just like they said.

01:16:46 ◼   ► Performance is great.

01:16:47 ◼   ► I did cause the crash, that's fine, it's beta.

01:16:50 ◼   ► All right.

01:16:50 ◼   ► But I had an actual task I was doing.

01:16:54 ◼   ► I was filing a bug against the version of Apple Podcasts

01:16:56 ◼   ► that's on iPad OS.

01:16:57 ◼   ► I was like, oh, how am I gonna get a screenshot

01:17:00 ◼   ► off of my iPad over to my Mac?

01:17:02 ◼   ► have to airdrop it and you know it's like but wait this is a great opportunity

01:17:05 ◼   ► to use universal control I'll just take the screenshot on my iPad and then just

01:17:09 ◼   ► yank my cursor for my Mac over there grab the photo and pull it over to my

01:17:13 ◼   ► Mac and on the second try it worked and that was cool and I like the little

01:17:18 ◼   ► animations this is also the first time that I have had any extended period of

01:17:22 ◼   ► time to use iPads iPad OS cursor support which I know has been out for years now

01:17:26 ◼   ► but I haven't really ever used it besides briefly my wife's got the little

01:17:30 ◼   ► What is it called the weird keyboard foldy thingy for the iPad Pro?

01:17:34 ◼   ► What is that called?

01:17:35 ◼   ► The foldy one?

01:17:36 ◼   ► Is it smart?

01:17:37 ◼   ► Is it magic?

01:17:38 ◼   ► Does it have a trackpad or not?

01:17:39 ◼   ► It has a trackpad.

01:17:40 ◼   ► It's the magic.

01:17:41 ◼   ► Okay.

01:17:42 ◼   ► It's the magic smart pro max.

01:17:43 ◼   ► Yes.

01:17:44 ◼   ► Okay.

01:17:45 ◼   ► It costs as much as the small iPad.

01:17:46 ◼   ► Other than playing with that, I hadn't done it.

01:17:47 ◼   ► But now using my actual mouse and keyboard was cool.

01:17:50 ◼   ► But the thing I will say is that, and I haven't tried this myself, but it just occurred to

01:17:54 ◼   ► me watching a conversation in another Slack.

01:17:57 ◼   ► It says this right in the documentation too, I think.

01:17:59 ◼   ► Universal control doesn't just let you drag your cursor from your Mac screen onto your

01:18:03 ◼   ► iPad, it also lets you drag your cursor from your Mac screen onto another Mac screen.

01:18:09 ◼   ► And I think more people might potentially have a laptop and a desktop on the same desk

01:18:13 ◼   ► kind of area.

01:18:14 ◼   ► Yeah, and I think that is even more useful use case.

01:18:17 ◼   ► Now there have been third party products that have done this in a while.

01:18:19 ◼   ► For a while, what was the popular one?

01:18:21 ◼   ► It was called like Synergy or something.

01:18:24 ◼   ► And before that, there was another one that I'm not remembering.

01:18:26 ◼   ► There's a bunch of these things for Linux.

01:18:28 ◼   ► But there's something about, for someone with my kind of philosophy of these things, there's

01:18:32 ◼   ► something about it being a first party OS integrated thing versus a third party product

01:18:38 ◼   ► that makes me more likely to use it just because there's nothing to install, I have some faith

01:18:42 ◼   ► it will be supported and work well.

01:18:45 ◼   ► And maybe that's not true.

01:18:46 ◼   ► Maybe like the third party one is actually better than the Apple one because it's less

01:18:49 ◼   ► buggy, they had a long time to work out the things, but that means the third party software

01:18:52 ◼   ► has to be installed and all the different things and it's another thing for you to mind

01:18:55 ◼   ► intend and make sure that it doesn't have some sort of problem that spins out of control

01:18:59 ◼   ► or a security flaw or whatever.

01:19:01 ◼   ► This may be incorrect thinking in my head, but it's the way I think about it.

01:19:04 ◼   ► Every third-party product is just a little bit of an extra burden of me to just keep

01:19:07 ◼   ► track of and make sure it's not going wonky, whereas things that go wonky in the OS I have

01:19:11 ◼   ► no control over anyway, so I might as well just forget about it.

01:19:15 ◼   ► But we talked on a past show how annoying it is that file sharing is so terrible and

01:19:20 ◼   ► I just two Macs are in the same room and I don't want to grab a file from one and bring

01:19:23 ◼   ► it to the other.

01:19:24 ◼   ► I have to say that the fastest way to do that now is probably to use universal control to go over to

01:19:31 ◼   ► My wife's desktop grab the file and bring it back now unfortunately for me

01:19:35 ◼   ► I can't see both of the screens at the same time particularly comfortably and

01:19:39 ◼   ► Secondly unfortunately if she's logged in as her and I'm logged in as me

01:19:43 ◼   ► That's not gonna work because you have to be logged into the same app ID and everything

01:19:45 ◼   ► But this had made me has made me think a lot more about essentially virtual kv

01:19:51 ◼   ► what do they call product tech synergy

01:19:52 ◼   ► and universal control, virtual KVM, right?

01:19:54 ◼   ► Like the idea of having multiple computers on your desk,

01:19:58 ◼   ► but one set of input devices, one keyboard and one mouse,

01:20:00 ◼   ► but you're controlling multiple computers,

01:20:02 ◼   ► that's what universal control is essentially.

01:20:04 ◼   ► It works with iPads, it works with Macs.

01:20:07 ◼   ► If it worked with a phone, that'd be really cool too.

01:20:10 ◼   ► It's making me think a lot more about

01:20:12 ◼   ► what I can do with the desk space that I have.

01:20:15 ◼   ► Not that there's much room with this giant monitor on here,

01:20:17 ◼   ► but maybe there might be room for in the future,

01:20:19 ◼   ► let's say a laptop somewhere in my life.

01:20:21 ◼   ► When my children take all,

01:20:23 ◼   ► my children already have taken all the laptops,

01:20:25 ◼   ► so my children finish commandeering

01:20:26 ◼   ► every single laptop in the house

01:20:28 ◼   ► because they don't know what desktops are.

01:20:30 ◼   ► If I ever need something portable to bring with me somewhere,

01:20:33 ◼   ► I may have to get a laptop.

01:20:34 ◼   ► And literally the only way I would ever bother

01:20:36 ◼   ► using that laptop is if I could do it using my big keyboard

01:20:40 ◼   ► and my big mouse on my desk,

01:20:41 ◼   ► because I don't like smushing myself onto a laptop.

01:20:43 ◼   ► It's bad for my RSI, I just don't like it.

01:20:45 ◼   ► I feel all hunched over and gross.

01:20:46 ◼   ► Laptops are gross.

01:20:48 ◼   ► But if I just had it on my desk,

01:20:50 ◼   ► and especially if it's one of the new laptops

01:20:52 ◼   ► with a really fancy monitor that can hang with my XDR,

01:20:55 ◼   ► I might think about that.

01:20:58 ◼   ► - I played with universal control very briefly

01:21:00 ◼   ► and it worked surprisingly well.

01:21:03 ◼   ► And it was pretty fluid for the most part.

01:21:06 ◼   ► I was doing most of this on my screen and porch

01:21:09 ◼   ► where the wifi is good but not spectacular.

01:21:12 ◼   ► And so there were a couple of times

01:21:13 ◼   ► there was definitely some latency and lag and whatever.

01:21:15 ◼   ► But generally speaking, it worked very well.

01:21:17 ◼   ► And what was absolutely bananas was I sat my iPad Pro,

01:21:21 ◼   ► which is four years old now or something like that.

01:21:23 ◼   ► I sat my iPad Pro to the left of my,

01:21:26 ◼   ► my MacBook Pro is previously covered.

01:21:28 ◼   ► And I just kept pushing the mouse

01:21:30 ◼   ► to the left edge of the MacBook Pro.

01:21:33 ◼   ► And sure enough, pink, all of a sudden,

01:21:35 ◼   ► my cursor was over on the iPad.

01:21:37 ◼   ► It was very, very cool.

01:21:39 ◼   ► I look forward to playing with this more.

01:21:41 ◼   ► Again, I don't, I think I get probably more use

01:21:44 ◼   ► out of sidecar than I,

01:21:45 ◼   ► which is the thing where your screen is expanded to be on your iPad, then I expect to out of

01:21:50 ◼   ► your universal control. But back when I had the iMac Pro and my MacBook Pro, which often

01:21:56 ◼   ► was on my desk as well, this would have been amazing at that point when I had the two computers

01:22:02 ◼   ► on my desk. That would have been so great. But even still, it's extremely well done from

01:22:07 ◼   ► the limited use I've had with it and very, very cool.

01:22:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like the killer feature is the unification of input.

01:22:15 ◼   ► Because getting things from the world of the iPad onto the Mac has just always seemed cumbersome.

01:22:21 ◼   ► Direct manipulation, even if it's just copy on the Mac, paste on the iPad, right?

01:22:25 ◼   ► That's just so much easier than like, oh, I can do things like I'm going to put this

01:22:28 ◼   ► in Apple Notes, which I guess is a testament to Apple Notes.

01:22:31 ◼   ► I need to transfer some piece of information from my iPad to my Mac.

01:22:34 ◼   ► It's text.

01:22:35 ◼   ► I'll just make a new note, I'll paste it in, I'll go over to my Mac, I'll open up notes,

01:22:38 ◼   ► and it will be synced, I'll pull it out, right?

01:22:40 ◼   ► That's dumb, right?

01:22:42 ◼   ► You know, why don't you just AirDrop it?

01:22:43 ◼   ► Why don't you email it to yourself?

01:22:44 ◼   ► Like, there's a million different ways to do it.

01:22:46 ◼   ► - Universal Clipboard, baby.

01:22:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, no, Universal Clipboard,

01:22:49 ◼   ► I don't need Universal Control for that.

01:22:51 ◼   ► Although Universal Clipboard for me is not as reliable

01:22:54 ◼   ► as Universal Control has been so far.

01:22:56 ◼   ► And like, this is another thing I have to say

01:22:58 ◼   ► about Universal Control.

01:23:00 ◼   ► Like Universal Clipboard, there's not a lot of exposed knobs

01:23:04 ◼   ► and buttons and machinery for either one of these features.

01:23:06 ◼   ► They either work or they don't.

01:23:07 ◼   ► And if they don't, you just shrug,

01:23:10 ◼   ► ah, eh, like why isn't it working?