ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I'm gonna try to get through this recording.

00:00:02 ◼   ► I'm sitting here in my old office,

00:00:05 ◼   ► and it is very echoey, because I made a mistake

00:00:09 ◼   ► when we were here cleaning out the house

00:00:11 ◼   ► and filling the dumpster.

00:00:13 ◼   ► I took too many objects out of my office,

00:00:16 ◼   ► and now the acoustics in here are terrible.

00:00:19 ◼   ► It sounds like a bathroom,

00:00:21 ◼   ► because there's too much missing from the room.

00:00:24 ◼   ► - Did I tell the story on the show?

00:00:26 ◼   ► I don't recall if I brought this up on the show,

00:00:28 ◼   ► but about a month or two, maybe two or three months ago,

00:00:31 ◼   ► I was doing some sort of video conference,

00:00:33 ◼   ► which is very rare for me,

00:00:34 ◼   ► and is soon to be rare for Jon, or is rare for Jon now.

00:00:37 ◼   ► But I was doing some sort of video conference

00:00:39 ◼   ► where I needed to close the closet door.

00:00:43 ◼   ► Now, the way I'm facing,

00:00:44 ◼   ► I'm facing an exterior wall of the house,

00:00:46 ◼   ► and behind me is a closet, a very small closet,

00:00:49 ◼   ► that has some of those accordion-style doors on it.

00:00:52 ◼   ► And I closed the doors early in the day

00:00:54 ◼   ► for that video conference,

00:00:55 ◼   ► And then that evening I recorded ATP.

00:00:59 ◼   ► And the next day, Marco says to me, "What did you do?"

00:01:03 ◼   ► I was like, "What?

00:01:04 ◼   ► "What did you do?

00:01:05 ◼   ► "What are you talking about?

00:01:06 ◼   ► "Everything's the same.

00:01:06 ◼   ► "No, you changed something."

00:01:07 ◼   ► I went, "No, I didn't.

00:01:08 ◼   ► "What did you take out of your room?"

00:01:10 ◼   ► Marco, "What, do you have a camera?"

00:01:11 ◼   ► "No, I didn't do anything."

00:01:13 ◼   ► And we eventually--

00:01:14 ◼   ► - Wait, didn't it say like you took out something soft

00:01:15 ◼   ► from your room and you had to put it back?

00:01:16 ◼   ► - Right, yeah, yeah, that's basically what you said.

00:01:18 ◼   ► And eventually we concluded, oh, I had closed the closet door

00:01:23 ◼   ► And so all the soft material that's in the closet,

00:01:26 ◼   ► like coats and things like that,

00:01:28 ◼   ► instead of it being soft material,

00:01:29 ◼   ► it was very echoey hard material.

00:01:31 ◼   ► And I don't think another human on the planet,

00:01:33 ◼   ► except perhaps one of the people

00:01:35 ◼   ► we're gonna talk about in follow-up,

00:01:36 ◼   ► other than Marco and this person from follow-up,

00:01:38 ◼   ► I don't know if any other human on the planet

00:01:39 ◼   ► would have noticed, but I tell you what, Marco noticed.

00:01:41 ◼   ► So apparently you've done it to yourself.

00:01:43 ◼   ► Congratulations, you played yourself.

00:01:45 ◼   ► - And the thing is, I've recorded shows in here for years,

00:01:48 ◼   ► and I didn't, I mean, it's never been as good

00:01:50 ◼   ► as the beach office, 'cause the beach office

00:01:52 ◼   ► is a much smaller room and I've treated it pretty well.

00:01:55 ◼   ► This room is sized to be like a bedroom

00:01:57 ◼   ► and so it's significantly larger.

00:01:59 ◼   ► I might be moving to a small bedroom upstairs

00:02:02 ◼   ► instead soon.

00:02:03 ◼   ► So reason number one, I'm trying to get through this,

00:02:06 ◼   ► is the reverb that I'm gonna have to try to filter out

00:02:09 ◼   ► with iZotope after the recording.

00:02:11 ◼   ► Reason number two, one of the benefits of living

00:02:13 ◼   ► at the beach is that I live on a very skinny island.

00:02:18 ◼   ► It's very windy.

00:02:20 ◼   ► And so in the springtime, whatever pollen

00:02:23 ◼   ► might be created by the island is instantly blown

00:02:26 ◼   ► right off of it.

00:02:27 ◼   ► And so there actually isn't that much pollen in the air

00:02:29 ◼   ► that actually sticks around and builds up

00:02:31 ◼   ► and gets into my eyes and makes me miserable.

00:02:34 ◼   ► Well, so that also means that my tolerance for pollen

00:02:37 ◼   ► has gone down over the last two years.

00:02:39 ◼   ► And so I've come back to Westchester for just a day

00:02:42 ◼   ► to run some errands, and now I am filled with allergies.

00:02:47 ◼   ► Additionally, the changing routine made me forget

00:02:50 ◼   ► to take my allergy pill this morning.

00:02:51 ◼   ► And so I had like the double whammy

00:02:54 ◼   ► and I got away with it all day until about 15 minutes ago.

00:02:58 ◼   ► And now my eyes are just itching like crazy.

00:03:00 ◼   ► Oh God, I spent a lot of time outside today too.

00:03:04 ◼   ► So I had a lot of like wind blowing around

00:03:06 ◼   ► and blowing everything into my face.

00:03:08 ◼   ► So that's fun.

00:03:10 ◼   ► And then reason number three is that

00:03:12 ◼   ► despite my best efforts,

00:03:14 ◼   ► which included stopping at an Apple store earlier today,

00:03:17 ◼   ► I am still looking at the goddamn LG Ultrafine 5K,

00:03:22 ◼   ► which is slightly crooked, which I think,

00:03:24 ◼   ► I can't even tell, I think it's slightly crooked.

00:03:26 ◼   ► - Well, it's moving a lot, so it's hard to tell.

00:03:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's wiggling constantly

00:03:29 ◼   ► whenever I touch the desk, and now that I'm used to 6K,

00:03:31 ◼   ► it looks like I'm using my computer through a porthole.

00:03:34 ◼   ► Like it's-- - Oh, get off of it.

00:03:36 ◼   ► You can come right off of it, good grief.

00:03:38 ◼   ► - Oh my God. - I can allow the wiggly,

00:03:41 ◼   ► I can allow you going to get a studio display,

00:03:43 ◼   ► honestly, I'm still surprised you haven't gotten

00:03:44 ◼   ► a second XDR, but--

00:03:46 ◼   ► - Frankly, I thought about it.

00:03:48 ◼   ► - You can come off of it on the postage stamp.

00:03:50 ◼   ► - Honestly, maybe if they ever update the XDR,

00:03:52 ◼   ► maybe I would get the second one then

00:03:54 ◼   ► and move the older one to whichever place

00:03:56 ◼   ► I was using the least.

00:03:58 ◼   ► But that's, I mean, they're so expensive.

00:04:01 ◼   ► - Can we actually drop a topic right here,

00:04:02 ◼   ► which is going to fly completely in the face

00:04:05 ◼   ► of everything Jon stands for?

00:04:06 ◼   ► Hey, buddy.

00:04:07 ◼   ► - You know, you could save this for seven minutes.

00:04:09 ◼   ► - No, no, no, we might as well drop it now

00:04:11 ◼   ► because it's relevant.

00:04:13 ◼   ► I've been thinking a lot about my forthcoming studio display,

00:04:17 ◼   ► which should be here in the next couple of weeks,

00:04:20 ◼   ► which means since we're recording early,

00:04:22 ◼   ► it might be here by the time we have our next recording.

00:04:24 ◼   ► No promises, we'll see.

00:04:25 ◼   ► But I've been thinking a lot about the studio display

00:04:28 ◼   ► and how there's so many things

00:04:30 ◼   ► that we were talking about before it existed

00:04:32 ◼   ► that we wanted, like high refresh.

00:04:34 ◼   ► The, what is it, mini LED?

00:04:36 ◼   ► I always get the terminology wrong.

00:04:38 ◼   ► - Yes, 'cause micro doesn't really exist yet.

00:04:40 ◼   ► - It exists.

00:04:41 ◼   ► - Well, but no one's using it really, right?

00:04:42 ◼   ► - Not in computer displays.

00:04:43 ◼   ► - So, the point is, there's a lot of stuff

00:04:46 ◼   ► that it seems like low-hanging fruit,

00:04:49 ◼   ► even though I don't think it actually is,

00:04:50 ◼   ► but there's a lot of stuff that we wanted

00:04:52 ◼   ► that we didn't get in the studio display.

00:04:53 ◼   ► And I'm not complaining, mind you.

00:04:55 ◼   ► I'm overjoyed to be getting this display,

00:04:58 ◼   ► even with the current camera problems.

00:05:00 ◼   ► Like, I'm sure they will get fixed.

00:05:01 ◼   ► I'm overjoyed to be getting this display.

00:05:03 ◼   ► Certainly Marco was about to insta-buy one earlier today,

00:05:07 ◼   ► if at all possible.

00:05:08 ◼   ► What I wonder from you guys is,

00:05:10 ◼   ► Do you see an in-between display happening

00:05:15 ◼   ► in, let's say, the next two years?

00:05:17 ◼   ► Do you think that there will be a display

00:05:22 ◼   ► that is beefier, more powerful, nicer,

00:05:25 ◼   ► take your adjective, that is better than the studio display,

00:05:29 ◼   ► but still not quite the bananas XDR?

00:05:32 ◼   ► Do you think that there's space for that in Apple's lineup

00:05:35 ◼   ► for, I don't know, maybe like $3,000 or $4,000

00:05:38 ◼   ► or something like that?

00:05:39 ◼   ► I mean, yes, there is space, but your first question was,

00:05:42 ◼   ► will Apple actually do that?

00:05:43 ◼   ► But the Apple approach, I don't necessarily think

00:05:46 ◼   ► is to make sure that there's space for it.

00:05:48 ◼   ► They would just replace this one with a better one.

00:05:50 ◼   ► - And your question of, you said within two years,

00:05:53 ◼   ► I'm gonna say definitely not within two years.

00:05:54 ◼   ► - Well, historically speaking, Apple has been terrible

00:05:58 ◼   ► about updating its monitors, but things change.

00:06:00 ◼   ► So again, I guess the question, will Apple do this or should?

00:06:03 ◼   ► They absolutely should, of course they should,

00:06:05 ◼   ► but they just, I mean, just look at the history

00:06:07 ◼   ► of their monitors.

00:06:08 ◼   ► ever been in Apple monitor that like a year later

00:06:10 ◼   ► was replaced with one that was better.

00:06:11 ◼   ► The closest I think you can come to that is maybe

00:06:13 ◼   ► the 22 inch Apple cinema display was replaced

00:06:15 ◼   ► by the 23 inch Apple cinema display,

00:06:17 ◼   ► which was a lot better in what seemed to me

00:06:19 ◼   ► a fairly short amount of time, but everything else.

00:06:22 ◼   ► I mean, even just the XDR, where is the new XDR?

00:06:25 ◼   ► Didn't come out the year after the XDR was released,

00:06:26 ◼   ► that's for sure.

00:06:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think what we're likely to see here

00:06:30 ◼   ► is exactly what John said, like when they are ready

00:06:33 ◼   ► to offer those features at somewhere near this price point,

00:06:36 ◼   ► they'll just replace this monitor with a new model

00:06:38 ◼   ► that has them.

00:06:39 ◼   ► - It will probably be a little bit more expensive,

00:06:41 ◼   ► but not $3,000.

00:06:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, I don't know how much of a market

00:06:45 ◼   ► there would be for a 27-inch 5K Apple monitor

00:06:48 ◼   ► with those features for three or four thousand dollars.

00:06:51 ◼   ► - I think there's a market for it,

00:06:53 ◼   ► because it would be for people who would buy the XDR,

00:06:56 ◼   ► but it's too much money,

00:06:57 ◼   ► but they need the features of the XDR.

00:06:58 ◼   ► - But once you're at three or four thousand dollars,

00:06:59 ◼   ► why wouldn't you go five or six thousand dollars

00:07:01 ◼   ► for the XDR and get a much bigger monitor?

00:07:03 ◼   ► - 'Cause it's twice as much.

00:07:04 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:07:06 ◼   ► You get two of them.

00:07:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, it depends a lot on the,

00:07:08 ◼   ► does the XDR, whenever the XDR is updated next,

00:07:11 ◼   ► is it still $5,000 without a stand?

00:07:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, or does it get even more expensive?

00:07:15 ◼   ► - Or maybe they can bring it down to 4,000, who knows?

00:07:17 ◼   ► - Or maybe it's 8K and it gets more expensive, we'll see.

00:07:19 ◼   ► But the thing is, the features that we're talking about,

00:07:22 ◼   ► this is another one of those reaching limits

00:07:23 ◼   ► of human perception, the features that we're talking about

00:07:25 ◼   ► eventually will be economical,

00:07:27 ◼   ► whether it's with, eventually with OLED or with micro LED,

00:07:29 ◼   ► eventually those features will just be par for the course.

00:07:32 ◼   ► And once you have them,

00:07:33 ◼   ► It's not as if you have to wait for 500 hertz, right?

00:07:36 ◼   ► Like, it's, you know, there is a,

00:07:38 ◼   ► that's the point of diminishing returns.

00:07:39 ◼   ► And same thing with the HDR thing.

00:07:42 ◼   ► Will there someday be a 5,000 nit monitor?

00:07:44 ◼   ► Like, I really doubt that is something

00:07:46 ◼   ► that any human would even really want, right?

00:07:48 ◼   ► So I think you'll be able to fit all the features

00:07:51 ◼   ► that we want into something like the Apple cinema,

00:07:55 ◼   ► the Apple Studio display within a handful of years.

00:07:58 ◼   ► And at that point, for a reasonable economic,

00:08:01 ◼   ► you know, amount of money. At that point, this will just be the new Apple Studio display.

00:08:05 ◼   ► But look at the cadence of Apple releasing better versions of its monitors. Their history

00:08:09 ◼   ► is really bad here. So you had said, and this was off the cuff, off the top of your head,

00:08:15 ◼   ► I dropped this on you spontaneously, so no shame. You had said that you thought the 22

00:08:20 ◼   ► inch cinema display to 23 inch cinema display was a year or two. I said it was a, it reminded

00:08:25 ◼   ► me it was a very short amount of time, relatively speaking. So how long was it? So August 31st,

00:08:30 ◼   ► which actually is Aaron's birthday, of 1999,

00:08:32 ◼   ► was the 22-inch cinema display,

00:08:35 ◼   ► which has like a tripod-style stand,

00:08:38 ◼   ► or just making sure we're talking about the same thing.

00:08:40 ◼   ► - It's flat, it's got two stubby little feet

00:08:42 ◼   ► on the right and left sides,

00:08:43 ◼   ► then it's got a kickstand on the back.

00:08:45 ◼   ► - Correct, okay, we're talking about the same thing.

00:08:47 ◼   ► That was August 31, 1999.

00:08:49 ◼   ► The 23-inch cinema display,

00:08:51 ◼   ► which is visually very different, almost iMac-ish.

00:08:55 ◼   ► - No, visually very different?

00:08:57 ◼   ► You must be thinking,

00:08:58 ◼   ► maybe I'm thinking of a different one.

00:08:59 ◼   ► - Oh, this is aluminum, 23 inch display.

00:09:02 ◼   ► - No, no, that's not what I'm talking about.

00:09:03 ◼   ► - Okay, then I take it back.

00:09:04 ◼   ► - You're talking about the one

00:09:05 ◼   ► with the big plastic clear feet?

00:09:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, they made two of those, one at 22 and one at 23.

00:09:09 ◼   ► - That was March 21, 2002.

00:09:11 ◼   ► That makes much more sense.

00:09:13 ◼   ► Okay, I feel better.

00:09:13 ◼   ► - Say, that's a pretty small gap in Apple monitor years.

00:09:18 ◼   ► - That's basically instant.

00:09:19 ◼   ► That's basically the next day.

00:09:20 ◼   ► - That was three years, right?

00:09:21 ◼   ► It was within three years?

00:09:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was two and a half years-ish,

00:09:24 ◼   ► give or take.

00:09:25 ◼   ► - That is the smallest gap I can remember,

00:09:27 ◼   ► but pretty much everything else.

00:09:28 ◼   ► Look at the Thunderbolt display.

00:09:29 ◼   ► That just never got changed and then eventually went away.

00:09:33 ◼   ► - Well, no, it didn't.

00:09:34 ◼   ► - I mean, you're thinking there was an LED SIM display

00:09:37 ◼   ► that was not Thunderbolt.

00:09:38 ◼   ► It used, I believe, many display ports.

00:09:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, there was a 24-inch Apple LED display

00:09:43 ◼   ► that I had at work.

00:09:44 ◼   ► - No, but there was also a 27.

00:09:45 ◼   ► - 27-inch LED display.

00:09:47 ◼   ► - But it was right before Thunderbolt.

00:09:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, and then replaced with a Thunderbolt.

00:09:50 ◼   ► But honestly, the replacement with a Thunderbolt display,

00:09:52 ◼   ► it was, like, the thing that changed about it

00:09:54 ◼   ► was the stupid rat tail thing in the Thunderbolt interface.

00:09:57 ◼   ► I'm not sure the panel changed at all.

00:09:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think you might be right.

00:10:00 ◼   ► And that thing was buggy as hell.

00:10:02 ◼   ► TIFF had one for a while.

00:10:03 ◼   ► And yeah, we heard from a lot of people too.

00:10:05 ◼   ► Ours was buggy, we heard from a lot of people,

00:10:06 ◼   ► theirs were buggy.

00:10:08 ◼   ► - And I have one, it was always weird.

00:10:09 ◼   ► It's 'cause it didn't run on iOS, that was the problem.

00:10:10 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:10:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, but seriously, so anyway,

00:10:13 ◼   ► so I was in the Apple Store today.

00:10:15 ◼   ► I did finally see the studio display

00:10:18 ◼   ► and the Mac studio in person.

00:10:20 ◼   ► I tried to listen to the fan noise,

00:10:21 ◼   ► but you know, yeah, in an Apple Store,

00:10:23 ◼   ► you can't hear anything,

00:10:24 ◼   ► and we'll have feedback on that in a second.

00:10:25 ◼   ► But I could've bought a studio display today

00:10:28 ◼   ► if I didn't want the good stand.

00:10:30 ◼   ► If I wanted just the regular fixed angle

00:10:32 ◼   ► or fixed height stand, that one they actually had

00:10:34 ◼   ► in stock in my store here.

00:10:36 ◼   ► And I could've bought the table.

00:10:36 ◼   ► I'm like, no, if I'm gonna get this thing,

00:10:39 ◼   ► I wanna get it with the good stand.

00:10:40 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:10:41 ◼   ► Because I never run my Apple monitors at stock height.

00:10:44 ◼   ► So I could've gotten it, but yeah, I just had to wait.

00:10:46 ◼   ► But as soon as I can get one of those,

00:10:48 ◼   ► I think I'm going to get one to replace this stupid LG

00:10:50 ◼   ► and I'm just gonna mail it to you.

00:10:52 ◼   ► - What, mail me the LG?

00:10:53 ◼   ► That's like an $80 postage sort of event,

00:10:55 ◼   ► but hey, I'll take it.

00:10:56 ◼   ► - It's worth it for the joke alone.

00:10:58 ◼   ► I think everybody should mail you their LG 5Ks.

00:11:01 ◼   ► - And Marco's USB ports still work, right?

00:11:03 ◼   ► - Allegedly.

00:11:04 ◼   ► - You know what, they were always so unreliable,

00:11:06 ◼   ► I don't use them.

00:11:08 ◼   ► Right now they're just empty there.

00:11:09 ◼   ► - I mean, the one that connects to the computer still works.

00:11:12 ◼   ► - Remember, it was the only one

00:11:13 ◼   ► that actually friggin' mattered and failed.

00:11:15 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:11:17 ◼   ► - Does your monitor occasionally go black

00:11:18 ◼   ► like Merlin's does?

00:11:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, it might.

00:11:20 ◼   ► I'm convinced Merlin has the exact same problem.

00:11:22 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, he totally does, he has the exact same problem.

00:11:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, of course, everyone has that problem.

00:11:26 ◼   ► But yeah, it's, oh God, this monitor,

00:11:29 ◼   ► I'm so over this monitor, I just want this out of my house.

00:11:33 ◼   ► Like, I'm literally willing to spend $2,080

00:11:37 ◼   ► to get this monitor out of my house.

00:11:39 ◼   ► That's how much I hate it.

00:11:41 ◼   ► - You just put it on the floor and throw a blanket over it

00:11:43 ◼   ► and it could absorb sound.

00:11:44 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:11:46 ◼   ► - So getting back to it, so I don't know how far off we are

00:11:49 ◼   ► from economically having mini LED,

00:11:53 ◼   ► local dimming and everything here,

00:11:54 ◼   ► because if you look at the MacBook Pro,

00:11:56 ◼   ► the 16 inch MacBook Pro, that display is,

00:11:59 ◼   ► what do you think, about half?

00:12:00 ◼   ► It's like if you have like two of them,

00:12:02 ◼   ► like a left half and a right half,

00:12:03 ◼   ► that would about be the 5K area, right?

00:12:06 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm, someone should do the math.

00:12:08 ◼   ► That seems-- - Maybe three.

00:12:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it needs three.

00:12:11 ◼   ► - It's like between two and three of those

00:12:12 ◼   ► would cover the 5K area.

00:12:14 ◼   ► Now I know things are harder to make

00:12:15 ◼   ► when you increase the area

00:12:16 ◼   ► because for things like yields and everything like that,

00:12:18 ◼   ► but I think we're mostly not talking about

00:12:22 ◼   ► yields of the panel.

00:12:23 ◼   ► we're mostly talking about the backlight technology.

00:12:25 ◼   ► That would enable the local dimming--

00:12:27 ◼   ► What the hell?

00:12:27 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:12:29 ◼   ► You know, Siri, I'm not sure I understand either.

00:12:30 ◼   ► - Your house missed you.

00:12:32 ◼   ► - No, that was my watch that just did that.

00:12:34 ◼   ► - Your watch?

00:12:35 ◼   ► - Oh, that's the worst.

00:12:37 ◼   ► - Anyway, how far are we from being able

00:12:39 ◼   ► to economically offer that?

00:12:40 ◼   ► I bet it's not, we're not talking like six years from now.

00:12:44 ◼   ► If we can do it in the 16 inch MacBook Pro

00:12:45 ◼   ► for not that much money relative to the rest

00:12:48 ◼   ► of the cost of the computer and everything,

00:12:50 ◼   ► we can probably do it in 5K without too extreme of an expense,

00:12:54 ◼   ► probably within maybe three years, two years, something like that.

00:12:56 ◼   ► I think that's the time frame we're talking about. But again,

00:12:59 ◼   ► because of Apple's aforementioned slowness to update the monitors,

00:13:02 ◼   ► that's why I think it's going to be more like, you know,

00:13:04 ◼   ► three to five years probably before we see it. But that being said,

00:13:07 ◼   ► so I did see these things in, I guess in the metal, is that what we call it?

00:13:12 ◼   ► That's what people call it. Like for watches.

00:13:14 ◼   ► You were in the flesh.

00:13:15 ◼   ► Yeah. I was gonna say I was in the flesh. When you see a watch in person,

00:13:18 ◼   ► you call it seeing it in the metal.

00:13:19 ◼   ► So do we see the same thing at computers?

00:13:21 ◼   ► - You do not.

00:13:22 ◼   ► You're making that up.

00:13:23 ◼   ► Is that a thing that happened?

00:13:24 ◼   ► - That's actually the term that watch people use.

00:13:26 ◼   ► - When you see it in person, they say,

00:13:28 ◼   ► "I saw the watch in the metal?"

00:13:30 ◼   ► - That's exactly what they say, yes.

00:13:31 ◼   ► - What if it's a ceramic watch?

00:13:33 ◼   ► - They usually contain some metal somewhere.

00:13:34 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:13:35 ◼   ► - Oh my God.

00:13:36 ◼   ► - That's a good question though.

00:13:37 ◼   ► There are very few watches that are all ceramic casing.

00:13:39 ◼   ► Usually at least the button pushers

00:13:41 ◼   ► will be metal or something.

00:13:42 ◼   ► - Fisher Price watch, it's all plastic, right?

00:13:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, but even then you get some metal somewhere.

00:13:45 ◼   ► There's a battery at least.

00:13:47 ◼   ► - Let's wind up, elastic springs.

00:13:50 ◼   ► - Then, yeah, right, you have metal somewhere in there.

00:13:53 ◼   ► - It's the watch that Magneto wears in his prison.

00:13:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, there it is.

00:13:57 ◼   ► - Anyway, so I saw these things, and I gotta say,

00:14:01 ◼   ► so number one, the studio display looks fantastic.

00:14:04 ◼   ► I was very impressed by it.

00:14:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, man.

00:14:07 ◼   ► - The raising and lowering stand version,

00:14:09 ◼   ► they have one on display.

00:14:10 ◼   ► - It's very nice.

00:14:11 ◼   ► - Oh, it's so nice.

00:14:12 ◼   ► I totally want to get that one when I get one.

00:14:15 ◼   ► So how does that compare to the XDR? Because I don't recall having heard anyone who has spent significant time with the XDR and

00:14:22 ◼   ► has also seen the studio display and it seemed to me having never spent, you know, meaningful time with the XDR that the

00:14:30 ◼   ► mount, the stand was very similar in quality. Is it? That's how it felt to me.

00:14:37 ◼   ► I mean the XDR stand is, you know,

00:14:39 ◼   ► it's a little bit thicker, like the metal is just a little bit thicker on the base and everything and the little, I guess, neck.

00:14:43 ◼   ► - And it rotates.

00:14:44 ◼   ► - Right, yes, well.

00:14:46 ◼   ► So I would say overall it's very similar quality

00:14:51 ◼   ► to an XDR stand at like 2/3 scale or something like that.

00:14:54 ◼   ► It's, or thickness or bulk or whatever.

00:14:56 ◼   ► Very, very similar.

00:14:57 ◼   ► However, the up and down motion

00:15:00 ◼   ► of like how easy it is to move up and down,

00:15:01 ◼   ► I would say it felt the same.

00:15:03 ◼   ► Now I'm not moving my XDR up and down all the time.

00:15:05 ◼   ► I set it where I want it and then I set it and forget it.

00:15:09 ◼   ► But you do have to set it.

00:15:11 ◼   ► So I adjusted the one in the store,

00:15:13 ◼   ► moved it up and down a little bit, and it felt great.

00:15:15 ◼   ► It felt exactly as high quality as the XDR stand.

00:15:18 ◼   ► And actually, the fact that it can't rotate,

00:15:20 ◼   ► I consider that a feature, not a bug,

00:15:22 ◼   ► because again, I want my monitors to be level.

00:15:25 ◼   ► And you know what monitor can never be unlevel?

00:15:28 ◼   ► One that can't rotate.

00:15:30 ◼   ► And so I would actually prefer it to not have that ability.

00:15:33 ◼   ► - This gets back to two things that I said

00:15:34 ◼   ► when I originally got my XDR.

00:15:35 ◼   ► First, that I was surprised at how the up and down motion

00:15:40 ◼   ► wasn't as smooth as I thought it would be.

00:15:42 ◼   ► Not that it was janky or loose, it was very tight,

00:15:44 ◼   ► but it felt kind of like, I don't know,

00:15:46 ◼   ► it didn't feel like a well-oiled machine,

00:15:48 ◼   ► it felt a little bit gritty to me, right?

00:15:50 ◼   ► And the second thing is that,

00:15:52 ◼   ► what you're talking about, you can rotate it, right,

00:15:55 ◼   ► but it doesn't have like a click into place

00:15:56 ◼   ► for exactly horizontal and exactly vertical.

00:15:59 ◼   ► That is a disadvantage if you're like,

00:16:01 ◼   ► oh, well how will I know if I'm gonna get it level,

00:16:03 ◼   ► but it is also an advantage if you are not sure

00:16:06 ◼   ► that your desk or room are level,

00:16:08 ◼   ► because then you can make sure the monitor

00:16:10 ◼   ► is level even if the stand isn't.

00:16:12 ◼   ► Maybe that's not a problem for people

00:16:13 ◼   ► who live in new construction, but if you live

00:16:15 ◼   ► in an old house in New England,

00:16:16 ◼   ► the ability to actually level your monitor,

00:16:19 ◼   ► even if your desk isn't level, is actually a feature.

00:16:21 ◼   ► Of course, my desk is level, so I don't have to worry

00:16:22 ◼   ► about it, or rather, I do have to worry about it,

00:16:24 ◼   ► but I can level my desk, and I also leveled my monitor,

00:16:27 ◼   ► and like Marco, I got it set where I want it,

00:16:29 ◼   ► and I generally don't mess with it.

00:16:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, and also, regarding seeing the Mac Studio

00:16:34 ◼   ► in the middle, I was very surprised how bulky

00:16:38 ◼   ► and blocky it looks in person.

00:16:40 ◼   ► It was like, you know, I knew academically

00:16:42 ◼   ► like how big it's supposed to be.

00:16:44 ◼   ► It looked in person bigger than I expected it to look.

00:16:47 ◼   ► And it's still not attractive.

00:16:50 ◼   ► But not that I'm, you know, it's fine.

00:16:53 ◼   ► It's serving its purpose.

00:16:54 ◼   ► So, you know, I'm very glad this product exists.

00:16:58 ◼   ► It definitely looks utilitarian.

00:17:01 ◼   ► I was surprised, there's a large white power LED

00:17:05 ◼   ► on the front.

00:17:06 ◼   ► It's not super bright, but it has a larger diameter

00:17:09 ◼   ► than a typical little point white LED.

00:17:11 ◼   ► It's more of almost like a pencil eraser sized.

00:17:15 ◼   ► So that was kind of interesting

00:17:17 ◼   ► and a little surprising to see.

00:17:19 ◼   ► So if you're sensitive to that,

00:17:20 ◼   ► you might wanna get one of those little

00:17:21 ◼   ► like stick on light cover tape things for it.

00:17:23 ◼   ► But otherwise, no, it looks pretty cool.

00:17:26 ◼   ► Just it looked big.

00:17:27 ◼   ► - It's a chunk.

00:17:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:17:29 ◼   ► It's not something that I would want,

00:17:32 ◼   ► like they have it, in all their pictures,

00:17:33 ◼   ► they have it kind of like sticking out

00:17:35 ◼   ► from under the monitor a little bit.

00:17:36 ◼   ► So it's like a few inches

00:17:38 ◼   ► in front of the monitor a little bit.

00:17:39 ◼   ► because they wanted to be in the product shot.

00:17:40 ◼   ► Here I am.

00:17:41 ◼   ► - In practice, you're never gonna wanna have that

00:17:43 ◼   ► be sticking out past the monitor on your desk.

00:17:45 ◼   ► You're gonna tuck it behind it somewhere,

00:17:47 ◼   ► like off to the side.

00:17:48 ◼   ► - Although it is nice that it fits underneath.

00:17:50 ◼   ► I think that's kind of like a space saving thing.

00:17:51 ◼   ► Like if the space is tight,

00:17:53 ◼   ► you don't actually need a separate space on the desk for it.

00:17:55 ◼   ► You can just let it be sort of be in the shadow

00:17:57 ◼   ► of the monitor.

00:17:57 ◼   ► But was it Jason Snow was just pointing out

00:18:00 ◼   ► a plexiglass thing that mounts under your desk.

00:18:02 ◼   ► It's really, what it actually is

00:18:04 ◼   ► is a dual Mac mini under desk mount, right?

00:18:07 ◼   ► but because this is about the same size as two MacMamies,

00:18:10 ◼   ► you can just buy it, put it under your desk,

00:18:11 ◼   ► put the studio in it, and then you

00:18:14 ◼   ► wouldn't have to see it at all.

00:18:15 ◼   ► It would just be stuck under your desk,

00:18:17 ◼   ► and maybe you wouldn't hear it as much either.

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00:20:10 ◼   ► On a completely random note,

00:20:15 ◼   ► you know what's painting me a little bit?

00:20:17 ◼   ► Knowing that there is a black version of the keyboard

00:20:20 ◼   ► and trackpad that I'm using right now and I don't have it.

00:20:22 ◼   ► 'Cause I don't have anything against the white version,

00:20:24 ◼   ► but after having spent years with the iMac Pros,

00:20:27 ◼   ► black keys, well dark gray or whatever it was,

00:20:31 ◼   ► and black trackpad.

00:20:34 ◼   ► Now, as of the event, you can get,

00:20:36 ◼   ► and they're obscenely expensive,

00:20:38 ◼   ► but you can get a black keyboard and a black trackpad.

00:20:40 ◼   ► I really want it.

00:20:41 ◼   ► - So I gotta say, I saw the black peripherals

00:20:44 ◼   ► in person today as well.

00:20:45 ◼   ► I wasn't that impressed by them,

00:20:46 ◼   ► but maybe it's just not my style.

00:20:47 ◼   ► I will say, the reason I was in the Apple Store--

00:20:50 ◼   ► - Other than the studio display.

00:20:52 ◼   ► - Well, I was shopping at Whole Foods

00:20:52 ◼   ► like almost next door to it, and so I walked over there,

00:20:54 ◼   ► but the reason I was there is that for tonight's recording,

00:20:57 ◼   ► I wanted to get myself a Thunderbolt 2 to 3 adapter

00:21:00 ◼   ► so I could use my other Thunderbolt Ethernet adapter.

00:21:03 ◼   ► It's for, you know, remember when I have recorded here

00:21:05 ◼   ► in the past, we had some issues using WiFi.

00:21:07 ◼   ► - Ah, yes. - And the USB,

00:21:09 ◼   ► the stupid, you know, Belkin-made USB-C Ethernet adapter

00:21:12 ◼   ► is not very good or fast or reliable,

00:21:14 ◼   ► but and I had two of the Apple Thunderbolt

00:21:16 ◼   ► Ethernet adapters, one of them's at the beach

00:21:18 ◼   ► and I had one here, I just didn't have the converter

00:21:20 ◼   ► to use it on Thunderbolt 3.

00:21:22 ◼   ► Secondly, I wanted to get the new little Touch ID keyboard

00:21:26 ◼   ► because I wanted to try it out, try using it as a keyboard,

00:21:30 ◼   ► maybe I could switch to it.

00:21:31 ◼   ► I've already decided that's probably not going to happen,

00:21:33 ◼   ► but it is kinda nice.

00:21:35 ◼   ► But I wanted to have the thing where you Velcro it

00:21:38 ◼   ► under the desk or something so that you can touch ID

00:21:40 ◼   ► with it while still using a good keyboard

00:21:42 ◼   ► on top of your desk.

00:21:43 ◼   ► And I did try using it for this afternoon

00:21:46 ◼   ► for while setting up my computer

00:21:48 ◼   ► and responding to some emails and stuff.

00:21:49 ◼   ► And it's almost a good keyboard.

00:21:52 ◼   ► I could almost see myself using it,

00:21:54 ◼   ► but the damn arrow keys.

00:21:56 ◼   ► Remember we talked about how they apparently

00:21:58 ◼   ► rounded the corners of this keyboard so much?

00:22:01 ◼   ► - 'Cause you got the one without the numeric keypad.

00:22:03 ◼   ► - Yes, I did.

00:22:04 ◼   ► - Bingo, mistake.

00:22:06 ◼   ► - The numeric keypad one's too wide.

00:22:08 ◼   ► But I think I might try that at some point.

00:22:11 ◼   ► - Aren't you ambidextrous now?

00:22:13 ◼   ► You use lefty trackpad and everything?

00:22:14 ◼   ► - I do use lefty trackpad and righty mouse,

00:22:17 ◼   ► but I just don't like having the mouse

00:22:18 ◼   ► all the way off in New Jersey when I'm trying to,

00:22:21 ◼   ► but man, this keyboard is almost really good,

00:22:25 ◼   ► except for those damn full height left and right arrow keys.

00:22:28 ◼   ► That was messing me up constantly.

00:22:30 ◼   ► Like, you know, I'm used to the Microsoft Sculpt

00:22:31 ◼   ► that I use all the time.

00:22:32 ◼   ► I've even, by the way, quick little thing.

00:22:34 ◼   ► Lenovo released a new ergonomic keyboard recently.

00:22:37 ◼   ► I bought one, I tried it.

00:22:38 ◼   ► It was so bad and I couldn't return it,

00:22:40 ◼   ► I actually threw it away.

00:22:41 ◼   ► That's how bad that was.

00:22:42 ◼   ► So if anybody's wondering if I've found anything better

00:22:45 ◼   ► than the Microsoft Sculpt for a split ergonomic keyboard,

00:22:48 ◼   ► no. (laughs)

00:22:49 ◼   ► But anyway, so going to the Apple thing,

00:22:52 ◼   ► it's almost really good.

00:22:53 ◼   ► I just, if they made the small keyboard

00:22:56 ◼   ► without the numeric keypad going off all the way

00:22:58 ◼   ► into New Jersey, but with regular half-height

00:23:01 ◼   ► left and right arrow keys,

00:23:03 ◼   ► that would be an amazing product.

00:23:04 ◼   ► I'd be so happy with that.

00:23:06 ◼   ► I might even stop using my ergonomic keyboard entirely

00:23:08 ◼   ► for that product, but as it stands, unfortunately,

00:23:11 ◼   ► we haven't gotten there yet.

00:23:12 ◼   ► But having Touch ID is really cool.

00:23:13 ◼   ► And I was also interested to see that

00:23:15 ◼   ► by setting up this Touch ID keyboard

00:23:18 ◼   ► with my 16-inch MacBook Pro,

00:23:20 ◼   ► which of course has its own Touch ID sensor

00:23:22 ◼   ► on the MacBook Pro, I didn't have to re-register

00:23:25 ◼   ► my fingerprint for the keyboard.

00:23:27 ◼   ► So it must have either transferred my fingerprint data

00:23:30 ◼   ► over somehow, which I'm not sure how that's possible,

00:23:32 ◼   ► while also having the whole security thing that they do

00:23:35 ◼   ► where it's all locked in, or there's some kind of

00:23:37 ◼   ► common hash that it stores and it's able to read

00:23:40 ◼   ► the same fingerprint data from two different sensors

00:23:43 ◼   ► and match one common hash.

00:23:44 ◼   ► But I thought that was kind of an interesting

00:23:45 ◼   ► little side effect that I expected I'd have to train

00:23:48 ◼   ► my own fingerprint again on this new sensor, but I didn't.

00:23:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think the Secure Enclave is on the M1, right?

00:23:55 ◼   ► It's not in the keyboard, but I might be wrong.

00:23:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's probably it.

00:23:58 ◼   ► So it's transmitting my fingerprint image somehow

00:24:01 ◼   ► from this keyboard.

00:24:02 ◼   ► - Well, not the image, but some amount of data,

00:24:04 ◼   ► but who knows?

00:24:05 ◼   ► - By the way, just some real time follow-up here.

00:24:07 ◼   ► R. Mori in the chat has linked,

00:24:09 ◼   ► there's actually a whole Apple support document

00:24:12 ◼   ► on how the Magic Keyboard with Touch ID

00:24:14 ◼   ► does the fingerprint security,

00:24:16 ◼   ► and how it securely transmits stuff

00:24:19 ◼   ► between it and the computer.

00:24:20 ◼   ► So we'll link that in the show notes as well.

00:24:21 ◼   ► - You know, hearing you, to go back a step,

00:24:23 ◼   ► talk about the officially called Magic Keyboard

00:24:26 ◼   ► with Touch ID for Mac models with Apple Silicon,

00:24:27 ◼   ► hyphen US English.

00:24:29 ◼   ► That's a very non-Apple name.

00:24:31 ◼   ► - That's almost one of those like Amazon keyboard spam

00:24:33 ◼   ► titles.

00:24:34 ◼   ► - Seriously, my goodness.

00:24:35 ◼   ► Anyways, when I was buying my new setup,

00:24:37 ◼   ► when I got my new computer,

00:24:38 ◼   ► I got the keyboard that has numeric keypad on it.

00:24:42 ◼   ► And I do like numeric keypad,

00:24:44 ◼   ► but I don't use it that terribly often.

00:24:46 ◼   ► And I understand what you're saying,

00:24:47 ◼   ► and I know you're being hyperbolic,

00:24:49 ◼   ► But even though my trackpad is east of where I would

00:24:53 ◼   ► potentially want it to be, I wouldn't go so far as to say

00:24:55 ◼   ► it's in New Jersey or anything like that,

00:24:57 ◼   ► or for us it would be the eastern shore.

00:24:59 ◼   ► But nevertheless, it is further away

00:25:01 ◼   ► than I would prefer in a perfect world.

00:25:02 ◼   ► But-- - New Jersey is west of me,

00:25:04 ◼   ► I just, I face south.

00:25:05 ◼   ► - Fair, okay, well, that's true actually,

00:25:07 ◼   ► that's a good point.

00:25:08 ◼   ► But anyways, the point is that the reason I didn't get

00:25:10 ◼   ► the keyboard that you ended up with was expressly

00:25:12 ◼   ► because I knew those arrow keys were going to drive me

00:25:14 ◼   ► friggin' nuts.

00:25:16 ◼   ► And so I thought, you know what,

00:25:18 ◼   ► I'm just gonna bite the bullet and I'm just gonna go ahead

00:25:20 ◼   ► and I'm gonna get the one with the keypad

00:25:22 ◼   ► because I would prefer to have the arrow keys

00:25:24 ◼   ► that are not, the consistent arrow keys

00:25:26 ◼   ► where everything is a full key size.

00:25:29 ◼   ► - Just a quick update on Apple peripherals

00:25:31 ◼   ► with black key caps and so on.

00:25:34 ◼   ► Stephen Hackett had a good post to remind us.

00:25:36 ◼   ► It was a discussion about the black MacBook

00:25:38 ◼   ► and how that would cost more,

00:25:39 ◼   ► but it came with a bigger hard drive.

00:25:40 ◼   ► But even if you accounted for the bigger hard drive,

00:25:42 ◼   ► it still costs a little bit more.

00:25:43 ◼   ► So it's a thing that Apple still does,

00:25:45 ◼   ► reading from his webpage.

00:25:47 ◼   ► we'll put a link in the showrooms,

00:25:48 ◼   ► the current Magic Mouse, or I don't know if this is current,

00:25:50 ◼   ► but anyway, the Magic Mouse, white with 79, black 99.

00:25:53 ◼   ► The Magic Trackpad, white 129, black 149.

00:25:56 ◼   ► Magic Keyboard with Touch ID, numeric keypad,

00:25:58 ◼   ► white 179, black 199.

00:26:01 ◼   ► - I wanted the black MacBook

00:26:02 ◼   ► until I saw someone else's in person,

00:26:05 ◼   ► and it was just covered in fingerprints.

00:26:07 ◼   ► Oh my, it smudged up.

00:26:10 ◼   ► - Oh, but it was the white ones,

00:26:12 ◼   ► which I had a white poly book,

00:26:13 ◼   ► and it was covered in finger grease.

00:26:15 ◼   ► - I feel like it's easier to keep the white things clean

00:26:18 ◼   ► than it is to keep the black one's finger ungreased

00:26:20 ◼   ► because it's harder to clean off fingers.

00:26:23 ◼   ► - Also, who are you to be throwing stones

00:26:25 ◼   ► about black keyboards, mister?

00:26:27 ◼   ► I always bought black cars for you.

00:26:28 ◼   ► - I still have a black keyboard right here.

00:26:30 ◼   ► I just don't happen to have very greasy fingers

00:26:31 ◼   ► or I wash my hands before I touch my computer.

00:26:33 ◼   ► I have a black mouse, I have a black keycap.

00:26:35 ◼   ► I was lucky enough for my extremely inexpensive Mac Pro

00:26:38 ◼   ► came with a keyboard and black keycaps

00:26:40 ◼   ► and a black mouse that I've never unwrapped.

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00:28:44 ◼   ► - All right, we should, I guess, maybe do follow-up,

00:28:50 ◼   ► or aren't we supposed to start the show at this point?

00:28:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, someone derailed us, I can't remember.

00:28:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, jeez, it must have been Marco,

00:28:55 ◼   ► couldn't have been me.

00:28:56 ◼   ► All right, so we should do some actual follow-ups.

00:28:59 ◼   ► So friend of the show, Mark Edwards over at Django,

00:29:01 ◼   ► who makes John's favorite app in the entire world,

00:29:04 ◼   ► iStat Menus, he put together a follow-up to his post

00:29:09 ◼   ► from several years ago that started me down

00:29:11 ◼   ► this whole journey of looking into monitors

00:29:14 ◼   ► and high DPI monitors and so on and so forth.

00:29:18 ◼   ► Well, Mark has put together a revisit

00:29:21 ◼   ► in much the same way I had on my post in December,

00:29:24 ◼   ► and he walks through kind of, you know,

00:29:27 ◼   ► let's talk again about what it is we want,

00:29:29 ◼   ► why we want it, et cetera.

00:29:30 ◼   ► And did you know, fellas, it turns out

00:29:32 ◼   ► that when you have a visual medium

00:29:35 ◼   ► and you're trying to discuss visual things,

00:29:37 ◼   ► it's very easy to display examples

00:29:41 ◼   ► of exactly what we're talking about.

00:29:42 ◼   ► So if you were curious, listener,

00:29:44 ◼   ► as to why we keep banging this drum

00:29:47 ◼   ► and barking up this tree,

00:29:48 ◼   ► then I encourage you to check out this post

00:29:51 ◼   ► because it is abundantly obvious very, very quickly

00:29:55 ◼   ► exactly what we're talking about.

00:29:56 ◼   ► Also, actually, that reminds me,

00:29:58 ◼   ► last week I meant to say out loud, and I didn't,

00:30:02 ◼   ► but I did put in the show notes,

00:30:04 ◼   ► I went back and watched the iOS,

00:30:06 ◼   ► or excuse me, iPhone 4 retina display announcement

00:30:11 ◼   ► with Steve Jobs, and I put in the show notes,

00:30:13 ◼   ► but I completely forgot to say anything about it.

00:30:15 ◼   ► And in very Steve fashion, he does a phenomenal job

00:30:20 ◼   ► in just a couple of minutes of explaining

00:30:22 ◼   ► exactly why retina is a big deal,

00:30:24 ◼   ► in a much better way than any one of us can

00:30:26 ◼   ► just using our voices.

00:30:27 ◼   ► So it's in the last episode's show notes,

00:30:30 ◼   ► if I remember, I'll try to copy it

00:30:31 ◼   ► to this episode's show notes as well.

00:30:33 ◼   ► But it is absolutely worth the, I don't know,

00:30:35 ◼   ► five or 10 minutes of your time

00:30:37 ◼   ► if you're still confused why we want Retina so bad.

00:30:39 ◼   ► So go check that out too.

00:30:41 ◼   ► - So you mentioned how it's really nice

00:30:43 ◼   ► to have a blog post for this visual medium,

00:30:45 ◼   ► for this visual explanation.

00:30:47 ◼   ► Well, I happened to read this blog post earlier today

00:30:50 ◼   ► while sitting outside at a playground with,

00:30:52 ◼   ► you know, Adam was playing and I was like sitting there,

00:30:53 ◼   ► you know, as I was sitting at this playground bench

00:30:57 ◼   ► with no parents I knew around me to talk to,

00:30:59 ◼   ► I was reading my phone, of course,

00:31:00 ◼   ► and the wind just kept blowing in my eyes

00:31:03 ◼   ► and my eyes were just watering the entire time.

00:31:06 ◼   ► In retrospect, that was most likely

00:31:08 ◼   ► because of the pollen and the missed allergy pill,

00:31:10 ◼   ► but at the time I thought,

00:31:11 ◼   ► "Man, it's just really windy today."

00:31:13 ◼   ► And my eyes were just constantly watering

00:31:15 ◼   ► and I'm trying to read this article

00:31:16 ◼   ► and I kept wanting to wipe my eyes

00:31:17 ◼   ► and they're getting all itchy and red

00:31:19 ◼   ► from all the wiping then.

00:31:20 ◼   ► - Who else would have thought

00:31:21 ◼   ► you were having an emotional experience?

00:31:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, it looked like that.

00:31:23 ◼   ► It really, and I actually thought,

00:31:25 ◼   ► I'm like, people might think I'm crying here.

00:31:26 ◼   ► It's actually like there's a lot of water

00:31:28 ◼   ► coming out of my eyes right now.

00:31:29 ◼   ► - Non-native scaling makes you sad.

00:31:31 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, I mean.

00:31:32 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:31:34 ◼   ► Anyway, yeah, so that was a very good article

00:31:36 ◼   ► that I read through tears of pollen.

00:31:38 ◼   ► - And joy.

00:31:39 ◼   ► - Yes, also pollen, mostly pollen.

00:31:41 ◼   ► - I can tell you that this, like the mid-Atlantic

00:31:44 ◼   ► is real bad, it may not be the worst,

00:31:45 ◼   ► but it is real bad for pollen, and it is very frustrating.

00:31:50 ◼   ► And what's worse is, because I'm getting ever older,

00:31:52 ◼   ► it affects me more and more every year.

00:31:54 ◼   ► And I assure you, when you have rigid gas permeable,

00:31:57 ◼   ► or otherwise known as hard contact lenses,

00:31:59 ◼   ► if even a microscopic speck of pollen

00:32:02 ◼   ► ends up between your eyeball and your contact,

00:32:05 ◼   ► it's like getting stabbed to death in the eye.

00:32:06 ◼   ► It is delightful, I assure you.

00:32:08 ◼   ► - I can tell you, I know that my most popular

00:32:12 ◼   ► subject matter that I can cover is medical advice.

00:32:14 ◼   ► Everyone loves--

00:32:15 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:32:16 ◼   ► - And it never goes poorly for you.

00:32:17 ◼   ► - Yes, everybody loves whenever I discuss medical advice.

00:32:20 ◼   ► However, I can tell you, I have had good experiences

00:32:23 ◼   ► with adult allergy shots.

00:32:26 ◼   ► I got them when I was a kid also, like more regularly.

00:32:29 ◼   ► - It makes it sound dirty, won't it?

00:32:30 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:32:32 ◼   ► Adult, all right, go on.

00:32:34 ◼   ► - Yes, allergy shots as an adult,

00:32:39 ◼   ► not like explicit allergy shots.

00:32:42 ◼   ► No, I can actually recommend, it actually helped a lot

00:32:44 ◼   ► and takes way less time than you think to build up immunity.

00:32:47 ◼   ► - But you just said how you're dying from your eyes.

00:32:48 ◼   ► If it helps so much, why are you still bothered so badly?

00:32:50 ◼   ► - 'Cause I haven't gotten them in like three years

00:32:52 ◼   ► 'cause they don't have them at the beach.

00:32:53 ◼   ► - Gonna get back on that shot train.

00:32:54 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:32:57 ◼   ► Ay yi yi.

00:32:57 ◼   ► What are we doing right now?

00:32:58 ◼   ► Is this the show? Is this what people tune in for?

00:33:00 ◼   ► - I believe we're still in the pre-show.

00:33:01 ◼   ► We're trying to do a follow-up. It's not working.

00:33:03 ◼   ► - It's not working. - Keep trying.

00:33:05 ◼   ► - All right, we'll keep, we'll soldier on.

00:33:07 ◼   ► All right, so we've been dropping hints about this.

00:33:10 ◼   ► We had some really genuinely great feedback

00:33:12 ◼   ► from a couple of different audio people,

00:33:15 ◼   ► and I know that's not the right term, and I'm sorry,

00:33:17 ◼   ► but one of them that wrote in was Sam Kosnetz,

00:33:19 ◼   ► and Sam writes, "I'm a theatrical sound designer,

00:33:22 ◼   ► "and a very big part of my job is ensuring

00:33:24 ◼   ► "that audience members sitting in different places

00:33:26 ◼   ► "in the theater have more or less

00:33:27 ◼   ► the same acoustic experience as each other. This involves a lot of measuring of sound

00:33:31 ◼   ► in a whole bunch of different ways, so it's become a topic that's very near and dear to

00:33:34 ◼   ► me. Something that we came close to touching on several times in episode 476, but never

00:33:39 ◼   ► exactly addressed, is the relationship between loudness and distance. We can say things like,

00:33:44 ◼   ► quote, "A car passing by is 65 decibels," quote, or "A jet engine is 140 decibels,"

00:33:49 ◼   ► but those numbers don't mean anything without knowing the distance between the source of

00:33:52 ◼   ► the sound and the measurement device. Regarding the 3-decibel MacBook, Apple's operator position

00:33:57 ◼   ► measurements are almost certainly taken within an anechoic chamber completely isolated from

00:34:02 ◼   ► outside sources of noise. In this environment, the three decibels that they pick up from the MacBook

00:34:05 ◼   ► Air is certainly thermally induced, but it's hard to say what exactly it is. My guess is vibration

00:34:10 ◼   ► of any parts that have flexed, like keyboard keys or the hinge of the lid. This is very close to the

00:34:14 ◼   ► edge of what is physically possible to measure, so it's shrug-worthy territory. Apple's probably

00:34:19 ◼   ► obligated to report whatever they measure, even if it's hard to explain, since it's part of the

00:34:22 ◼   ► official technical specifications of the device. Finally, there was the question of noticing a

00:34:27 ◼   ► a three decibel difference or not, with the acoustician stating that a three decibel difference

00:34:30 ◼   ► was close to unnoticeable and Marco observing that when he makes a three decibel change

00:34:33 ◼   ► while editing podcasts, he very clearly notices it. This is one of those great examples of

00:34:38 ◼   ► "you're both right!" and the reason is that you're likely not talking about the same scale,

00:34:41 ◼   ► because a decibel isn't a fixed quantity, it's a ratio, and without a reference point,

00:34:45 ◼   ► a decibel means nothing. Measurements of the loudness of things in the real world use the

00:34:50 ◼   ► decibel SPL scale. The SPL means "sound pressure level" and is calibrated against a specific

00:34:56 ◼   ► amount of air pressure. The reference point for one decibel SPL is 20 micropascals, which

00:35:01 ◼   ► is the smallest quantity of air pressure that a human ear is able to perceive. Anything

00:35:05 ◼   ► less than that doesn't have enough energy to motivate the mechanism of the ear. When

00:35:08 ◼   ► Marco makes a three decibel adjustment while editing, he's working in the DBFS domain,

00:35:11 ◼   ► or decibel file system domain, just kidding. The decibel full scale, which uses as its

00:35:17 ◼   ► reference point the loudest possible sound that can be encoded on disk at the given sample

00:35:21 ◼   ► rate and bit depth. And this next part actually blew my mind. I had no idea this was the case.

00:35:26 ◼   ► So back to Sam here, this is why almost all level measurement

00:35:29 ◼   ► in audio software uses negative numbers.

00:35:31 ◼   ► They're all saying, quote, "How much quieter is this level

00:35:34 ◼   ► than the absolute loudest possible level

00:35:36 ◼   ► that I can reproduce?"

00:35:36 ◼   ► Quote, "I had no idea, that's why I always saw

00:35:39 ◼   ► negative stuff in Final Cut Pro, that's so cool.

00:35:41 ◼   ► So I've learned something."

00:35:42 ◼   ► - You also see it if you have an AV receiver

00:35:43 ◼   ► and you adjust the volume on it.

00:35:44 ◼   ► - Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - It's very good

00:35:46 ◼   ► that it shows you a negative number.

00:35:47 ◼   ► - That's true, I didn't think about that, yeah, you're right.

00:35:49 ◼   ► - If you think about it, like, zero,

00:35:52 ◼   ► it's kind of hard to say, well, what is the quietest sound?

00:35:54 ◼   ► that depends a lot on the sensitivity

00:35:56 ◼   ► of what you are recording or measuring it with.

00:35:58 ◼   ► As you increase the signal to noise ratio,

00:36:00 ◼   ► or you decrease the noise floor,

00:36:02 ◼   ► or like in digital terms, if you increase the bit depth,

00:36:04 ◼   ► like from 16 bit to 24 bit or 32 bit,

00:36:07 ◼   ► the smallest or tiniest little measurable sound

00:36:10 ◼   ► gets quieter the more sensitive you're representing it.

00:36:13 ◼   ► Whereas you can always easily represent

00:36:15 ◼   ► what is the loudest.

00:36:16 ◼   ► Like the loudest is like your digital circuit is at one,

00:36:20 ◼   ► like 1.0 or whatever,

00:36:21 ◼   ► it's like it's the maximum capacity

00:36:23 ◼   ► of that circuit before it clips.

00:36:25 ◼   ► It's the highest value it can represent, whatever it is.

00:36:27 ◼   ► So it makes sense to set that as your starting point

00:36:30 ◼   ► and then represent everything as,

00:36:32 ◼   ► how far below that are we?

00:36:34 ◼   ► Because the depth of that can change over time.

00:36:37 ◼   ► - Right, and then Sam finishes up,

00:36:38 ◼   ► a three decibel adjustment within your editor

00:36:40 ◼   ► may not equate to a three decibel SPL difference

00:36:43 ◼   ► once that signal makes its way

00:36:44 ◼   ► through the rest of the signal path.

00:36:46 ◼   ► And even if it does, it isn't equating

00:36:48 ◼   ► to an actual level of three decibel SPL.

00:36:51 ◼   ► It's equal to maybe 63 or 73 decibels SPL.

00:36:54 ◼   ► Human hearing perception is not linear,

00:36:55 ◼   ► and the decibel scale is neither.

00:36:57 ◼   ► The difference between 70 decibels SPL

00:36:58 ◼   ► and 73 decibels SPL is more perceptible

00:37:01 ◼   ► than the difference between zero decibels SPL

00:37:04 ◼   ► and three decibels SPL.

00:37:05 ◼   ► This is all fascinating,

00:37:06 ◼   ► and I know that was a little bit long,

00:37:07 ◼   ► but I was riveted by all of it.

00:37:10 ◼   ► - I think this is another time to say that all of which

00:37:12 ◼   ► is interesting and important background knowledge,

00:37:14 ◼   ► but does not solve the very, I mean, it's not a mystery,

00:37:19 ◼   ► But the very puzzling reality of the wildly varying reports

00:37:24 ◼   ► we continue to get from people who have owned

00:37:27 ◼   ► or are near Mac Studios, right?

00:37:30 ◼   ► It's just, I've been tweeting about it all week long.

00:37:32 ◼   ► And I'm not saying any of these people are wrong,

00:37:34 ◼   ► but this is really, the variability is just off the charts.

00:37:37 ◼   ► It's even made some people guess

00:37:39 ◼   ► that maybe there's like a manufacturing problem

00:37:41 ◼   ► and some are loud or some are quiet

00:37:42 ◼   ► because people are saying, like you get,

00:37:44 ◼   ► all the way from the people saying, I have one,

00:37:47 ◼   ► I live in a tomb where there is no noise or wind and I can't hear it at all.

00:37:54 ◼   ► And my ears are the best ears.

00:37:55 ◼   ► I won the hearing contest in my town.

00:37:57 ◼   ► I can't hear a thing.

00:37:58 ◼   ► And other people are like, I'm returning my $8,000 computer because I can't stand the

00:38:02 ◼   ► noise.

00:38:03 ◼   ► It's so loud.

00:38:04 ◼   ► You have no idea.

00:38:05 ◼   ► Right?

00:38:06 ◼   ► Some people even said they could hear the display.

00:38:07 ◼   ► I'm like, come on, you can hear the display.

00:38:09 ◼   ► No one had said they could hear the display.

00:38:10 ◼   ► I'm like, at least the whole world agrees.

00:38:12 ◼   ► You can't hear the fans in the Apple studio display.

00:38:14 ◼   ► And then people, until you get yours.

00:38:16 ◼   ► And then you're going to say, "I absolutely can hear it."

00:38:17 ◼   ► I can't hear the fans in my XDR.

00:38:20 ◼   ► I said that before.

00:38:21 ◼   ► My XDR has fans.

00:38:22 ◼   ► I do not hear them, right?

00:38:23 ◼   ► But anyway, the Mac studio is all over the map, right?

00:38:26 ◼   ► We even had somebody who said, "I bought two Mac studios.

00:38:29 ◼   ► One was the Ultra and one was the Max, and I can hear the Max, but I can't hear the Ultra."

00:38:32 ◼   ► It's the same person.

00:38:33 ◼   ► Literally the same person.

00:38:34 ◼   ► And one of them is like, "Well, the Ultra has the copper heatsink and blah, blah, blah."

00:38:39 ◼   ► But every other person who tested them said, "The fans stay at the same RPM.

00:38:43 ◼   ► Apple has said it's the same cooling assembly in both of them.

00:38:45 ◼   ► The heat sink is baffling.

00:38:49 ◼   ► All this academic stuff about explaining the decibel differences in SPL or whatever, that's

00:38:53 ◼   ► good to understand the measurements we were getting.

00:38:55 ◼   ► It's like, "Oh, well, we don't have to rely on people's reported annoyance level.

00:39:00 ◼   ► We can just take measurements with science."

00:39:02 ◼   ► This explains how the science would work, but almost everyone who's told us about the

00:39:06 ◼   ► science has also thrown in a little aside as if it's unimportant to say, "Of course,

00:39:10 ◼   ► the quality of the sound matters."

00:39:13 ◼   ► If it is broad spectrum, high pitch, low pitch, loudness is just one factor that goes into

00:39:21 ◼   ► is this sound annoying or even can I hear it?

00:39:24 ◼   ► And so the subjective support reports in many ways are all that does matter, right?

00:39:29 ◼   ► Because it's not like we're measuring a single frequency tone at different sound levels.

00:39:34 ◼   ► It's we're measuring a very complicated sound in very complicated environments and then

00:39:39 ◼   ► subjecting it to individual people and right now the individual people do not

00:39:43 ◼   ► agree are these computers dead silent are they the noisiest things Apple has

00:39:46 ◼   ► ever made and need to be returned and in the end all that matters is what you

00:39:50 ◼   ► listener or me or Marco or whatever what you think about it when you buy yours

00:39:54 ◼   ► because who cares if other people can't stand the noise that if you buy one and

00:39:57 ◼   ► you can't hear it success or if everyone else thinks it's quiet and you buy one

00:40:01 ◼   ► and can't stand the noise that's bad so I'm still hoping that by the time my Mac

00:40:06 ◼   ► studio actually ships sometime this summer, whatever issues they might have will be sorted

00:40:09 ◼   ► out and I'm just hoping I'm old enough that this sound won't bother me.

00:40:13 ◼   ► But if it was a taste related thing, you are a supertaster and you would know.

00:40:16 ◼   ► I mean, I think your taste buds get crappier as you get older.

00:40:19 ◼   ► Everything is crappier as you get older for the most part.

00:40:21 ◼   ► So even that's probably fading with age.

00:40:24 ◼   ► But you know, if it tastes good, being a supertaster is great.

00:40:26 ◼   ► It tastes like a thousand peaches.

00:40:29 ◼   ► Thousand pears.

00:40:30 ◼   ► Come on chat room, help me out.

00:40:32 ◼   ► These two aren't gonna.

00:40:33 ◼   ► Millions of peaches.

00:40:35 ◼   ► - Thanks for having me.

00:40:36 ◼   ► - Nice.

00:40:37 ◼   ► - All right, and moving right along.

00:40:38 ◼   ► Chris Gagne writes, "It appears that some common

00:40:40 ◼   ► "USBC Ethernet adapters, like the Belkin 1 Apple cells,

00:40:43 ◼   ► "have issues reaching full gigabit speeds

00:40:45 ◼   ► "plugged into the studio display.

00:40:46 ◼   ► "I could only hit about 400 megabits per second

00:40:48 ◼   ► "via speed test when plugged into the studio display

00:40:50 ◼   ► "and about 920 megabits per second,

00:40:52 ◼   ► "close to the limit of gigabit,

00:40:54 ◼   ► "plugged directly into my MacBook Pro 14 inch.

00:40:56 ◼   ► "However, an Anker 2.5 gigabit Ethernet adapter,

00:40:59 ◼   ► "an Anker 2.5G model, was able to reach

00:41:01 ◼   ► "at least gigabit speeds, and I was consistently

00:41:03 ◼   ► getting download speeds of about 930 gigabits per second when it when I

00:41:06 ◼   ► plugged it into the studio display. I don't have a 2.5 gigabit Ethernet

00:41:11 ◼   ► network to test its full capabilities but this solves my issue. I didn't put

00:41:16 ◼   ► this in here I'm not sure why we why do we care. I mean it's just an interesting

00:41:19 ◼   ► thing to consider for you know the getting the full capabilities of your

00:41:23 ◼   ► monitor and the mysteries of things that fit into USB-C shaped holes but may not

00:41:27 ◼   ► you know what I mean like it's just it never ends it's not even just cables.

00:41:32 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I get that. I don't know. I would really love for someone to put together

00:41:38 ◼   ► like an online calculator for all the stuff flying through a Thunderbolt connection. Because

00:41:44 ◼   ► I feel like, and this is very unscientific of me, but I feel like, well, you know, the

00:41:49 ◼   ► 5k displays carrying that 5k is a lot of data to pass and it has to pass it very frequently.

00:41:55 ◼   ► So if the, if the network connection is a little slower, well, I get that. And, and

00:41:59 ◼   ► And again, that's not scientific at all.

00:42:01 ◼   ► But I wish someone would put together some sort of online calculator where you could

00:42:05 ◼   ► say, you know, something like, "Oh, I've got a 5K display and I've got a this or that and

00:42:10 ◼   ► the other thing.

00:42:11 ◼   ► When do I get into the danger zone of throughput or something like that?"

00:42:15 ◼   ► So somebody make that for me, please, and thank you.

00:42:17 ◼   ► Real time update.

00:42:18 ◼   ► I got the fruit right eventually but blew the number.

00:42:20 ◼   ► Hundred pairs or million pairs?

00:42:22 ◼   ► Not a thousand pairs.

00:42:23 ◼   ► Link in the show notes.

00:42:24 ◼   ► I have no idea what you're talking about.

00:42:26 ◼   ► Well, I put it in the chat room.

00:42:27 ◼   ► I put it at the top of the document.

00:42:28 ◼   ► - Oh, they might be giants?

00:42:31 ◼   ► Oh, fair enough, okay.

00:42:33 ◼   ► All right, let's talk about, from about 15 years ago,

00:42:35 ◼   ► iCloud and custom domains.

00:42:37 ◼   ► Dominic Lautner wrote a blog post, or a post about

00:42:41 ◼   ► a lot of the problems with iCloud and custom email domains,

00:42:44 ◼   ► and to quickly go through some of them.

00:42:47 ◼   ► There's no catch-all address support,

00:42:49 ◼   ► so this is, you know, my email address is @caseylist.com.

00:42:53 ◼   ► Well, if you were to email FUBAR@caseylist.com,

00:42:57 ◼   ► which isn't a valid address, I can set it up

00:43:00 ◼   ► such that that will go to a particular email address of mine

00:43:03 ◼   ► that I do check, and iCloud doesn't allow that.

00:43:06 ◼   ► There's also, according to Dominic,

00:43:08 ◼   ► aggressive DNS record validation.

00:43:10 ◼   ► There's no inbound email relay support,

00:43:13 ◼   ► and the error messages are, guess what,

00:43:15 ◼   ► super duper opaque and useless,

00:43:17 ◼   ► because hey, Apple, this is what you love to do.

00:43:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, Dominic, when you looked into this,

00:43:22 ◼   ► got a crappy error message, and being an industrious,

00:43:25 ◼   ► probably developer or whatever, said,

00:43:27 ◼   ► I need more.

00:43:28 ◼   ► And then just because it's like a web type thing,

00:43:30 ◼   ► you can just look at the AJAX request going back and forth

00:43:34 ◼   ► and look at the actual JSON.

00:43:36 ◼   ► And so the UI error was, there was a problem

00:43:40 ◼   ► adding this email address.

00:43:41 ◼   ► Please try again later, which is like the worst copy,

00:43:43 ◼   ► because try again later, it's like,

00:43:45 ◼   ► is it going to be different later?

00:43:46 ◼   ► Or is it just like, is this just a form of torture?

00:43:49 ◼   ► Because later, it makes it seem like there

00:43:52 ◼   ► is a temporary condition that you think will resolve, right?

00:43:55 ◼   ► But if you look at the JSON, the JSON has an error code,

00:43:58 ◼   ► whatever, some number.

00:43:59 ◼   ► And then it has an error message key in the JSON.

00:44:01 ◼   ► And the error message is MX record not pointing to iCloud.

00:44:05 ◼   ► Boy, that would be useful to know,

00:44:07 ◼   ► because now you know how to fix it if you know what an MX--

00:44:10 ◼   ► at least you have a hint if you know what an MX record is.

00:44:12 ◼   ► And I understand this is technical,

00:44:13 ◼   ► and most people don't understand that.

00:44:14 ◼   ► But that is not the equivalent of there

00:44:16 ◼   ► was a problem ending with the email, please try again later.

00:44:17 ◼   ► Because later, it will not work unless someone changes the MX

00:44:20 ◼   ► record between now and later.

00:44:22 ◼   ► And it reminded me of experience I'm

00:44:25 ◼   ► having with my iPhoto library or Apple Photos library,

00:44:31 ◼   ► where it will get into a state where it'll say,

00:44:32 ◼   ► restoring from iCloud dot, dot, dot,

00:44:35 ◼   ► and it will just stay that way forever.

00:44:38 ◼   ► And I look at it and I wonder, what's really going on?

00:44:41 ◼   ► Please tell me.

00:44:42 ◼   ► Like, are you ever going to complete?

00:44:44 ◼   ► Are you stuck on something?

00:44:45 ◼   ► Is there an image you can't get to?

00:44:48 ◼   ► And I resort to such ridiculous things.

00:44:50 ◼   ► Obviously, I'm looking in console for anything.

00:44:52 ◼   ► There's nothing helpful there.

00:44:53 ◼   ► using FS usage and SC usage, running them

00:44:56 ◼   ► in every process I can think of.

00:44:57 ◼   ► The photo library D, the photos application itself,

00:45:03 ◼   ► the cloud sync D, like just, I just want to,

00:45:07 ◼   ► I mean, 'cause you look at it and like,

00:45:08 ◼   ► nothing's happening on the computer.

00:45:09 ◼   ► The CPU is not being stressed,

00:45:11 ◼   ► it's not a lot of disk IO, but there's a little bit

00:45:12 ◼   ► and you're like, is the, are photos,

00:45:16 ◼   ► is something happening related to photos?

00:45:18 ◼   ► Because I left it on this thing for like days

00:45:20 ◼   ► a couple of times before I gave up

00:45:22 ◼   ► and just rebuilt the whole library with the,

00:45:23 ◼   ► you hold down launch photos and hold down command option,

00:45:25 ◼   ► it'll rebuild the whole library,

00:45:27 ◼   ► which also takes forever by the way,

00:45:28 ◼   ► which is why I didn't wanna do it.

00:45:29 ◼   ► But eventually, after several days

00:45:31 ◼   ► of it just having an opaque message like this,

00:45:33 ◼   ► I just gave up.

00:45:34 ◼   ► So I really wish Apple would, like,

00:45:37 ◼   ► it's a difficult problem,

00:45:38 ◼   ► 'cause you don't wanna throw weird error messages

00:45:39 ◼   ► in people's faces, they're confusing,

00:45:40 ◼   ► nobody knows what an MX record is for the most part.

00:45:43 ◼   ► So I get why they're trying to hide it,

00:45:45 ◼   ► but there should be some way for people who want to know

00:45:48 ◼   ► or want some kind of hint to figure out,

00:45:51 ◼   ► Is this irretrievably wedged?

00:45:53 ◼   ► Is it doing something?

00:45:54 ◼   ► Or should I give up and rebuild the thing?

00:45:57 ◼   ► And Apple continues to be terrible about this.

00:45:59 ◼   ► I thought this was interesting that this subject came up

00:46:02 ◼   ► in an otherwise unrelated topic of iCloud custom domains.

00:46:07 ◼   ► - Indeed.

00:46:08 ◼   ► And then there, Dominic also talks about some notes

00:46:10 ◼   ► about coupling with Apple IDs,

00:46:12 ◼   ► emails sent from addresses without an account get dropped,

00:46:16 ◼   ► which is super delightful.

00:46:18 ◼   ► And according to Dominic, third-party clients

00:46:21 ◼   ► may leak your Apple ID, which is also super delightful.

00:46:23 ◼   ► So there's problems.

00:46:26 ◼   ► And you might want to tread carefully

00:46:29 ◼   ► if that's what you want to do.

00:46:30 ◼   ► - These problems may or may not apply to you.

00:46:31 ◼   ► Like follow the link to the article

00:46:32 ◼   ► to see them in much more detail.

00:46:33 ◼   ► This is just a quick bulleted list,

00:46:35 ◼   ► but there are sort of edge cases that may concern you

00:46:38 ◼   ► that you should look into.

00:46:40 ◼   ► - And finally, with regard to iCloud email stuff,

00:46:45 ◼   ► Eli Lindsay writes that despite including instructions

00:46:48 ◼   ► to configure DNS entries for domain keys,

00:46:50 ◼   ► identified mail or DKIM.

00:46:52 ◼   ► DKIM signatures are not generated when sending mail

00:46:55 ◼   ► from iOS or Mac OS mail app.

00:46:57 ◼   ► DKIM is generated when sending from the iCloud web mail

00:47:00 ◼   ► client, but who actually uses that?

00:47:02 ◼   ► This means that outgoing mail takes a deliverability hit,

00:47:05 ◼   ► though it's still generally OK, since sender policy framework

00:47:08 ◼   ► or SPF is properly configured.

00:47:11 ◼   ► Cool.

00:47:12 ◼   ► Anything else we'd like to add about that?

00:47:13 ◼   ► Use fast mail, I guess.

00:47:15 ◼   ► Yeah, oh, and speaking of, I've had a few questions

00:47:17 ◼   ► about what I've done with regards to my Gmail and Google App Shear domain. What I've done

00:47:21 ◼   ► is I've continued to kick that can down the road and not think about it. But my current

00:47:26 ◼   ► plan is the same as it was before, which is even though there apparently are some ways

00:47:30 ◼   ► that you can ask Google, "Please, please sir, please can I have some more?" And you might

00:47:35 ◼   ► be able to get access in certain circumstances forever, I just plan to divorce myself from

00:47:41 ◼   ► Google at this point. And so I do plan to get a Fast Mail account. I need to do that

00:47:44 ◼   ► soon because I would love to pull a Marko and get all of the referral credit, but I

00:47:49 ◼   ► haven't done so yet. So please, if you're thinking about sending any referral credit

00:47:54 ◼   ► my way, please just hold on a little bit longer. I promise I'll get to it at some point.

00:47:58 ◼   ► All righty, let's talk about iPhone 14 rumors. And there have been a bunch lately because

00:48:05 ◼   ► we're coming up to that time, which actually speaking of, I'm a little surprised that we

00:48:09 ◼   ► haven't heard about WWDC yet. It's April. What the heck?

00:48:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's one of those like any day now situations,

00:48:14 ◼   ► but I mean, frankly, I would be very surprised

00:48:17 ◼   ► if it would be any different than the last couple years.

00:48:19 ◼   ► I think it's very little chance that it's in person,

00:48:22 ◼   ► so it's probably gonna be another remote conference.

00:48:24 ◼   ► And frankly, I mean, we talk about this every year,

00:48:26 ◼   ► but frankly, I think remote is better.

00:48:30 ◼   ► And it isn't better in all ways,

00:48:32 ◼   ► but it's better in many ways.

00:48:34 ◼   ► And I think if they went back to having it in person again,

00:48:38 ◼   ► certain parts of it would feel like a step backwards.

00:48:41 ◼   ► Can you imagine going to what used to be called

00:48:43 ◼   ► the Fairmont and what is now, Hilton bought it

00:48:46 ◼   ► and renamed it, but it's like, going back to one of these--

00:48:48 ◼   ► - I'll let you know that.

00:48:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, but you know, I checked the other day for fun,

00:48:51 ◼   ► like, what does it cost for that first full week of June

00:48:54 ◼   ► where it would most likely be if it was in person?

00:48:56 ◼   ► And it's like $475 a night.

00:48:59 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:49:00 ◼   ► - It's full of money.

00:49:00 ◼   ► - And of course, every San Jose and San Francisco hotel

00:49:03 ◼   ► is in that ballpark if it's anywhere near decent.

00:49:08 ◼   ► Not even, we're not even talking like really fancy hotels,

00:49:10 ◼   ► we're talking just like, what would anywhere,

00:49:12 ◼   ► in any other city in America,

00:49:13 ◼   ► what would be like $100 a night,

00:49:14 ◼   ► there it's almost 500.

00:49:16 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:49:18 ◼   ► But anyway, you know, can you imagine going back there

00:49:21 ◼   ► in person and spending a million dollars on a hotel

00:49:24 ◼   ► and flying out there from wherever you have to come from,

00:49:27 ◼   ► which is a big expense and a big time commitment

00:49:29 ◼   ► and everything, and sitting through the terribly slow

00:49:33 ◼   ► coffee shops that you find out there,

00:49:34 ◼   ► you know, between sessions,

00:49:36 ◼   ► and having to go into the conference center

00:49:40 ◼   ► and having to wait in line to get into the room

00:49:44 ◼   ► to then watch people present on a stage

00:49:47 ◼   ► when frankly if you look at the videos they've made

00:49:49 ◼   ► over the last couple years, the videos are better.

00:49:52 ◼   ► It would seem in many ways like a step backwards.

00:49:54 ◼   ► And yeah, I miss the socialization, I miss the labs,

00:49:58 ◼   ► like kind of BSing with some engineers here and there.

00:50:01 ◼   ► That was fun, but I think what we have now overall

00:50:06 ◼   ► is better and you cannot ignore that

00:50:09 ◼   ► It's better in many ways even for those of us

00:50:12 ◼   ► who were lucky enough to be able to go in person,

00:50:15 ◼   ► but there's so many more people who could never go in person

00:50:19 ◼   ► or who maybe only go once at best,

00:50:21 ◼   ► 'cause it's a big ordeal, it's a big expense,

00:50:24 ◼   ► it's hard to get tickets.

00:50:26 ◼   ► So imagine how much better the current system is now

00:50:31 ◼   ► for how many more total people.

00:50:34 ◼   ► I really do think if we ever go back in person,

00:50:36 ◼   ► it will feel like a step backwards.

00:50:38 ◼   ► And we only will have known that by now,

00:50:41 ◼   ► having it be better.

00:50:42 ◼   ► And then right now we think, oh, we can't wait to go back,

00:50:46 ◼   ► but if you do go back, I think you will miss the parts

00:50:49 ◼   ► about this that make this so good.

00:50:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know.

00:50:52 ◼   ► I wanna go back just 'cause I need an excuse

00:50:55 ◼   ► to see all my friends again, but I hear you,

00:50:58 ◼   ► and I think you're probably right.

00:50:59 ◼   ► If I were to wager a guess, I don't think it'll be this year

00:51:02 ◼   ► but I think in maybe next year, it wouldn't surprise me

00:51:06 ◼   ► if the keynote becomes a media event where, you know,

00:51:10 ◼   ► the John Grubers of the world and so on.

00:51:12 ◼   ► And I would love to be invited.

00:51:14 ◼   ► - And us, maybe, hey, invite us.

00:51:15 ◼   ► - You never know.

00:51:16 ◼   ► But you know, the Grubers and the Smells of the World

00:51:18 ◼   ► would get invited and would go out and go for one day

00:51:21 ◼   ► for the big keynote.

00:51:23 ◼   ► If there is hardware,

00:51:25 ◼   ► which is not usually their style these days,

00:51:28 ◼   ► then maybe they would get some hands-on time

00:51:29 ◼   ► with the hardware, and then that would be that,

00:51:31 ◼   ► and the rest of the conference would be online,

00:51:33 ◼   ► you know, just as it has been.

00:51:35 ◼   ► To go back a quick step, hearing you talk about $450 hotels in San Jose, is California

00:51:44 ◼   ► like the crypto of states where everyone is just agreeing that it's more expensive?

00:51:53 ◼   ► I believe they're called fiat hotels.

00:51:55 ◼   ► They're just declared to be that expensive.

00:51:58 ◼   ► But like, the Fairmont, while a perfectly reasonable and maybe even fine hotel, I wouldn't

00:52:05 ◼   ► so far as to call it ultra-fine.

00:52:06 ◼   ► - Is it ultra-fine?

00:52:07 ◼   ► - That's a step too far.

00:52:09 ◼   ► But it's a perfectly fine hotel.

00:52:11 ◼   ► Was it a $450 a night hotel?

00:52:13 ◼   ► - No.

00:52:14 ◼   ► - No, it was not.

00:52:15 ◼   ► - And when we were in San Francisco,

00:52:16 ◼   ► was the Park 55 a $350 a night hotel?

00:52:18 ◼   ► Absolutely not.

00:52:19 ◼   ► - No, it's all about location, though.

00:52:20 ◼   ► At least the one in San Francisco is in downtown San Francisco.

00:52:23 ◼   ► The one in San Jose is in downtown San Jose,

00:52:25 ◼   ► where there is, as far as I'm able to determine, nothing.

00:52:28 ◼   ► - I know.

00:52:29 ◼   ► I do miss the beer in Sausage Place.

00:52:31 ◼   ► That was a very--

00:52:32 ◼   ► - What was it?

00:52:33 ◼   ► - Are we talking about-- - Yeah,

00:52:34 ◼   ► - No, what was that? - "Early Gravity Public House."

00:52:36 ◼   ► That and the vegan Indian place across from it

00:52:38 ◼   ► are both very good and I miss those places.

00:52:40 ◼   ► I do not miss anything else about going to person.

00:52:44 ◼   ► - Right, but here's the thing,

00:52:45 ◼   ► I feel like crypto, not to really tick off

00:52:49 ◼   ► all the crypto people again, but I feel like crypto--

00:52:51 ◼   ► - I think we lost them already.

00:52:53 ◼   ► - Everyone's agreeing to,

00:52:56 ◼   ► we're all deciding as a collective

00:52:58 ◼   ► that we're gonna believe that this currency

00:53:01 ◼   ► is worth a lot of money, right?

00:53:03 ◼   ► - And I feel like, well, but I feel like that's California

00:53:07 ◼   ► at this point.

00:53:08 ◼   ► We are just all as a society agreeing

00:53:10 ◼   ► that California is expensive.

00:53:11 ◼   ► - Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them

00:53:13 ◼   ► is the phenomenon you're describing.

00:53:14 ◼   ► And that's true of the hotels in San Jose as well.

00:53:19 ◼   ► - I mean, I guess, but I don't know, man.

00:53:20 ◼   ► It just seems like we're all agreeing

00:53:21 ◼   ► that we're just gonna get fleeced anytime we step

00:53:24 ◼   ► within the state border of California.

00:53:26 ◼   ► Like it doesn't matter where you're going.

00:53:26 ◼   ► - I mean, the health of the conference,

00:53:28 ◼   ► California is a big place.

00:53:29 ◼   ► If I knew more about it, I could name some city

00:53:31 ◼   ► in California that no one ever goes to

00:53:32 ◼   ► where everything is super cheap.

00:53:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, see, we should do that.

00:53:35 ◼   ► - I don't think they have a lot of big conference centers

00:53:36 ◼   ► there, though, and they're probably not close

00:53:38 ◼   ► to the airport.

00:53:39 ◼   ► - Real time follow up, it looks like Original Gravity

00:53:41 ◼   ► Public House is still open, from what I can tell,

00:53:43 ◼   ► which is great news.

00:53:44 ◼   ► - Oh, thank God.

00:53:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's what we should do, we should do,

00:53:46 ◼   ► oh, and it looks like the gentleman who is pouring a beer

00:53:48 ◼   ► on their website has what I think is a Triforce tattoo.

00:53:52 ◼   ► That's from a game called The Legend of Zelda, Jon.

00:53:55 ◼   ► - Do I need to go look at this photograph

00:53:56 ◼   ► to see if it's actually a Triforce?

00:53:57 ◼   ► - It probably isn't, actually. (laughs)

00:54:00 ◼   ► I'm pretty confident. - Put a link in, please.

00:54:01 ◼   ► It's in the chat room.

00:54:03 ◼   ► But I feel like Marco, maybe once it's safe,

00:54:07 ◼   ► what you and I should do is we should go on a dining tour

00:54:12 ◼   ► of WWDCs of years past,

00:54:15 ◼   ► and we'll get lunch at Original Gravity,

00:54:18 ◼   ► we'll get dinner at House of Prime Rib,

00:54:21 ◼   ► and then we can come home.

00:54:21 ◼   ► We might not even need to stay the night.

00:54:23 ◼   ► We could just come home right then and save 500 bucks.

00:54:26 ◼   ► Golly, I miss that place.

00:54:29 ◼   ► Original Gravity was great.

00:54:31 ◼   ► Their sausages were delightful.

00:54:33 ◼   ► Of course all the Germans were listening to this

00:54:34 ◼   ► and like, oh really, let me tell you about it.

00:54:37 ◼   ► Let me tell you about good sausage.

00:54:38 ◼   ► Okay, this is going nowhere.

00:54:39 ◼   ► Good, let's talk about iPhone 14.

00:54:40 ◼   ► - Everything's relative.

00:54:42 ◼   ► - Although we took that entire detour

00:54:44 ◼   ► just to avoid talking about the iPhone 14 rumors.

00:54:46 ◼   ► I mean frankly, is this very interesting?

00:54:49 ◼   ► I don't think it is.

00:54:50 ◼   ► Okay, let's hear why.

00:54:51 ◼   ► - John, tell us what's interesting.

00:54:54 ◼   ► - I mean it's interesting for the drama.

00:54:56 ◼   ► It's like the last time we talked about iPhone 14 rumors,

00:54:58 ◼   ► I don't know, it was ages ago,

00:54:59 ◼   ► And the prevailing rumor at that time,

00:55:01 ◼   ► which I think we described as very early,

00:55:02 ◼   ► so take with a grain of salt.

00:55:03 ◼   ► I was excited about because iPhone 14 is my iPhone year.

00:55:07 ◼   ► I buy a new iPhone every two years instead of every one.

00:55:10 ◼   ► And recently I've been in the cadence where it's like,

00:55:12 ◼   ► when Apple comes out with the new form factor,

00:55:14 ◼   ► that's my year.

00:55:15 ◼   ► So I get the first of whatever the new thing is.

00:55:19 ◼   ► Like I got the first flat-sided one.

00:55:20 ◼   ► I got the 12 here, right?

00:55:22 ◼   ► And then 13 was also flat-sided.

00:55:25 ◼   ► So it was the 14, it's time for new form factor, whatever.

00:55:27 ◼   ► And so the rumors they had a while ago

00:55:30 ◼   ► were getting me excited 'cause the main thing

00:55:31 ◼   ► I didn't like about the 13 Pro, my wife has a 13 Pro,

00:55:34 ◼   ► is the gargantuan camera bump.

00:55:37 ◼   ► Like, I think we talked about this when we were reviewing

00:55:39 ◼   ► our various iPhone 13s and I was saying

00:55:41 ◼   ► when I use my wife's phone, very often the camera bump's

00:55:43 ◼   ► so big, first of all, that it doesn't lay flat

00:55:44 ◼   ► even with the case on it.

00:55:46 ◼   ► And second, when I'm holding it,

00:55:47 ◼   ► I would bump into the little wall

00:55:49 ◼   ► that's around the giant camera bump.

00:55:51 ◼   ► I would, you know, it was like, it just didn't,

00:55:54 ◼   ► I preferred, I was glad that I had a 12

00:55:56 ◼   ► because the 12's camera bump, while big,

00:55:57 ◼   ► is nothing compared to the 13 one.

00:55:59 ◼   ► It is smaller in width and height,

00:56:00 ◼   ► and it sticks out less far from the phone.

00:56:03 ◼   ► And I'm like, well, maybe that will be solved by the 14.

00:56:06 ◼   ► So the early rumors on the 14 was

00:56:08 ◼   ► that it was gonna have a periscope camera,

00:56:10 ◼   ► and like no more camera bump, essentially.

00:56:12 ◼   ► Like the cameras would be flush,

00:56:15 ◼   ► because, you know, we described this before,

00:56:17 ◼   ► but the periscope camera is basically like the,

00:56:19 ◼   ► the sensor is inside the phone, and it is sideways,

00:56:22 ◼   ► and then there's like a little prism,

00:56:23 ◼   ► or mirror, or whatever, where the light goes into the phone,

00:56:25 ◼   ► and then goes down the phone and all the lens elements are,

00:56:29 ◼   ► there'll be a link in the show notes

00:56:30 ◼   ► that shows an image of what it looks like,

00:56:31 ◼   ► but all the lens elements are stacked sort of sideways

00:56:34 ◼   ► inside the phone and that would let you have

00:56:36 ◼   ► a very long lens possibly also with an optical zoom

00:56:39 ◼   ► on it as well without sticking out a lot from the phone.

00:56:42 ◼   ► And then the next set of rumors that started coming were,

00:56:45 ◼   ► hey, no more notch, it's gonna have a hole,

00:56:47 ◼   ► what they call a hole punch camera,

00:56:48 ◼   ► only instead of just a hole punch for the camera,

00:56:50 ◼   ► it would be like a circular hole punch for the camera

00:56:53 ◼   ► and then a lozenge-shaped hole punch

00:56:55 ◼   ► for the remaining Face ID sensor stuff,

00:56:58 ◼   ► but the two of them together

00:56:59 ◼   ► would be much smaller than a notch.

00:57:00 ◼   ► I'm like, wow, this iPhone 14 sounds like

00:57:03 ◼   ► it's gonna be awesome.

00:57:04 ◼   ► And now as we get closer to actual iPhone 14 time,

00:57:09 ◼   ► all my hopes have been dashed.

00:57:11 ◼   ► Because now we get the real leaks,

00:57:12 ◼   ► people are leaking like the schematics

00:57:13 ◼   ► that the case makers get and the CAD drawings

00:57:16 ◼   ► and parts leaks of the actual screen.

00:57:18 ◼   ► So the hole punch stuff seems to be true.

00:57:20 ◼   ► Everyone's leaking all these little different parts

00:57:21 ◼   ► that show like a little circle

00:57:22 ◼   ► and a lozenge cut out instead of a notch.

00:57:24 ◼   ► But honestly, that was the part that I was least excited

00:57:27 ◼   ► about because the notch doesn't bother me.

00:57:29 ◼   ► And if you're going to have something screwing up

00:57:32 ◼   ► the top of your screen, whether it's a smaller notch

00:57:34 ◼   ► or a hole punch thing, it's not like you can put content

00:57:37 ◼   ► there.

00:57:39 ◼   ► You can't put text there.

00:57:40 ◼   ► It's in the middle of the line.

00:57:42 ◼   ► It's going to break.

00:57:43 ◼   ► It's good.

00:57:43 ◼   ► They're working on it.

00:57:44 ◼   ► They had the notch.

00:57:45 ◼   ► They made the notch smaller.

00:57:46 ◼   ► Then you get the hole punch.

00:57:47 ◼   ► And then iPhone 16 comes around, and you've

00:57:49 ◼   ► got the under screen face ID sensors or something,

00:57:52 ◼   ► which is another rumor, right?

00:57:53 ◼   ► But anyway, there's that.

00:57:54 ◼   ► But the real thing that's disappointing me is

00:57:57 ◼   ► all these rumors say, yeah, the periscope camera thing,

00:57:59 ◼   ► not this year.

00:58:00 ◼   ► And not only not this year,

00:58:02 ◼   ► but the little drawings of what the iPhone 14

00:58:04 ◼   ► is gonna look like, they're saying,

00:58:05 ◼   ► oh, you remember the camera model of the 13?

00:58:07 ◼   ► 14 is gonna be even bigger.

00:58:10 ◼   ► Like what, how could it possibly be bigger?

00:58:12 ◼   ► Even bigger, it's just gonna like rock on the table

00:58:15 ◼   ► no matter what you do to it.

00:58:16 ◼   ► So I'm really sad about that.

00:58:19 ◼   ► and I'm trying to make myself feel better

00:58:21 ◼   ► by thinking about what it means

00:58:23 ◼   ► to have an even bigger camera pump than the 13.

00:58:27 ◼   ► And apparently, according to the rumors,

00:58:29 ◼   ► what it means is the iPhone would be going

00:58:32 ◼   ► from a 12 megapixel camera, 1X camera,

00:58:35 ◼   ► to a 48 megapixel 1X camera, which is a big step up.

00:58:40 ◼   ► And the stats on that for the rumors

00:58:41 ◼   ► are we would have the 57% bigger sensor than the 13 Pro,

00:58:46 ◼   ► going from 44 millimeter square to 69 millimeter square,

00:58:48 ◼   ► and a 28% pixel size increase going from 1.9 micrometers,

00:58:53 ◼   ► microns, to 2.44.

00:58:56 ◼   ► But there's a caveat there.

00:58:58 ◼   ► So like 48 megapixels, like how can,

00:59:00 ◼   ► you're saying it's gonna go to 48 megapixels,

00:59:02 ◼   ► it's gonna be a 57% bigger sensor,

00:59:05 ◼   ► and it's gonna have bigger pixels?

00:59:06 ◼   ► How can it have bigger pixels

00:59:07 ◼   ► when it's got four times as many of them

00:59:09 ◼   ► through the magic of what they confusingly call

00:59:11 ◼   ► pixel binning, which is not sorting your pixels

00:59:14 ◼   ► by which ones work and which ones don't

00:59:15 ◼   ► and selling the ones where everything works

00:59:16 ◼   ► is more expensive.

00:59:18 ◼   ► That's not what they mean. - It's a different kind

00:59:18 ◼   ► of binning.

00:59:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, different kind of binning.

00:59:20 ◼   ► The binning is, what they will do,

00:59:22 ◼   ► oh, this is so confusing with the retina stuff, I'm sorry.

00:59:24 ◼   ► But what they will do is they will take

00:59:25 ◼   ► a 48 megapixel camera sensor,

00:59:28 ◼   ► and in conditions where there's not enough light

00:59:31 ◼   ► to be gathered by those tiny, tiny little pixels,

00:59:35 ◼   ► they will group together two by two squares of pixels,

00:59:40 ◼   ► and those two by two squares of pixels,

00:59:42 ◼   ► those bins of four pixels, will act as a single pixel

00:59:47 ◼   ► for light gathering purposes.

00:59:48 ◼   ► So suddenly your 48 megapixel sensor will act

00:59:52 ◼   ► just like a 12 megapixel sensor,

00:59:54 ◼   ► which is exactly half as much like a 12 megapixel sensor

00:59:57 ◼   ► with much bigger pixels.

00:59:59 ◼   ► If there is adequate light, like on a bright sunny day,

01:00:01 ◼   ► they will use all 48 individual megapixels.

01:00:04 ◼   ► But as the light level goes down,

01:00:06 ◼   ► they will bin them together and do that.

01:00:07 ◼   ► So this does sound like a very impressive camera

01:00:10 ◼   ► and a big upgrade,

01:00:11 ◼   ► 'cause if you think about how many megapixels

01:00:13 ◼   ► have been in the iPhone camera,

01:00:14 ◼   ► someone had a timeline somewhere,

01:00:15 ◼   ► but it was like, it had only gone up a few times.

01:00:19 ◼   ► And the current 12 megapixel camera has been the same

01:00:21 ◼   ► for a few generations now.

01:00:22 ◼   ► Going from 12 to 48 is a big jump and you don't have to,

01:00:25 ◼   ► if they do the pixel bending as described,

01:00:27 ◼   ► you don't have to worry about,

01:00:28 ◼   ► oh, but now all the pixels are so much smaller, it will suck.

01:00:30 ◼   ► They'll just bend them together and it will become

01:00:32 ◼   ► like a 12 megapixel camera with even bigger,

01:00:36 ◼   ► quote unquote, pixels, because each of those pixels

01:00:38 ◼   ► is four of the tinier ones, which turn out to be 28% bigger

01:00:41 ◼   ► than the one single one of the other ones.

01:00:43 ◼   ► So I am excited about having a bigger camera

01:00:47 ◼   ► because I was originally thinking,

01:00:48 ◼   ► well, if the iPhone 14 is gonna have a bigger camera bump,

01:00:50 ◼   ► I'm just not gonna buy it.

01:00:52 ◼   ► I'm just gonna skip it and I'll do a three-year gap

01:00:54 ◼   ► instead of a four-year one.

01:00:56 ◼   ► Because the periscope camera,

01:00:58 ◼   ► that rumor's still out there.

01:00:58 ◼   ► They're just like, oh, it's not gonna be in the iPhone 14.

01:01:00 ◼   ► Maybe it'll be in the iPhone 15 or 16.

01:01:03 ◼   ► I would like a periscope camera.

01:01:04 ◼   ► I would like an optical zoom, but more importantly,

01:01:05 ◼   ► I would like a flat back to my phone.

01:01:08 ◼   ► So the rumors are exciting,

01:01:12 ◼   ► but also mildly disappointing 'cause I said last year

01:01:16 ◼   ► that the 13 Pro has crossed some kind of a line

01:01:19 ◼   ► in terms of the size of the camera,

01:01:21 ◼   ► at least some kind of a line for me.

01:01:22 ◼   ► Like it's aesthetically,

01:01:24 ◼   ► if you look at the back of the camera or the phone,

01:01:27 ◼   ► same difference, it doesn't look like a rectangle

01:01:31 ◼   ► with a thing in the corner anymore.

01:01:32 ◼   ► It's not in the corner anymore.

01:01:34 ◼   ► Once you pass the midway point,

01:01:35 ◼   ► once you're taking up more than half the width of the phone,

01:01:38 ◼   ► you're not tucked into a corner.

01:01:40 ◼   ► and it's just not, like they might as well

01:01:42 ◼   ► have just made it full width

01:01:43 ◼   ► like so many Android phones have done

01:01:44 ◼   ► or just chosen a different shape or arrangement

01:01:47 ◼   ► because it's like they're trying to stick to the idea

01:01:49 ◼   ► that there's a camera in the corner of the phone,

01:01:53 ◼   ► but there's not, there's just a giant camera

01:01:54 ◼   ► slowly eating the back of all of their phones.

01:01:56 ◼   ► And so I wish they'd either embraced that

01:01:58 ◼   ► or figure out how to get back to smooth

01:02:00 ◼   ► with a periscope camera.

01:02:01 ◼   ► But those are the rumors and I'm like,

01:02:04 ◼   ► right now it's a battle between being excited

01:02:06 ◼   ► by having a 48 megapixel camera

01:02:08 ◼   ► I'm being depressed about having a giant wart

01:02:10 ◼   ► on the bottom of my phone.

01:02:12 ◼   ► - And you had put the Max Tech video on this

01:02:15 ◼   ► in the show notes, and sometimes I think

01:02:17 ◼   ► their explainers are a little bit rough

01:02:19 ◼   ► and kind of cut a bunch of corners,

01:02:21 ◼   ► but this one was really, really good,

01:02:22 ◼   ► and I really enjoyed it, and it's worth your time.

01:02:25 ◼   ► I think it was like 10 minutes or something like that.

01:02:26 ◼   ► And they explain exactly why 48 megapixels

01:02:29 ◼   ► is potentially nothing but better.

01:02:32 ◼   ► Well, with the exception of the bigger bump.

01:02:34 ◼   ► Other than that, everything else about it

01:02:35 ◼   ► is potentially better, and one of those things

01:02:37 ◼   ► like you were saying earlier,

01:02:38 ◼   ► like low light performance can actually go up

01:02:40 ◼   ► because the net pixel size, once you do this binning,

01:02:44 ◼   ► is bigger, just like you were saying.

01:02:45 ◼   ► And so what that means is you could have

01:02:48 ◼   ► a far more crisp picture in good light

01:02:51 ◼   ► and a more understandable, discernible picture in low light.

01:02:56 ◼   ► - So less noisy picture in low light,

01:02:58 ◼   ► 'cause you wouldn't have to crank up the ISO as much.

01:02:59 ◼   ► - Yep, that's a better way of putting it, thank you.

01:03:01 ◼   ► So this sounds to me, if you can get over the bump,

01:03:04 ◼   ► which I don't agree that we've crossed the Rubicon

01:03:07 ◼   ► or anything, but I do agree that it's getting

01:03:09 ◼   ► kind of ridiculous.

01:03:10 ◼   ► If you can put up with the Bump,

01:03:11 ◼   ► this sounds like it's going to be a dramatic improvement

01:03:14 ◼   ► to the camera and the iPhone,

01:03:15 ◼   ► if everything comes to fruition.

01:03:18 ◼   ► - Frankly, I mean, the Bump, you know,

01:03:20 ◼   ► now that I've had the 13 Pro for, you know,

01:03:23 ◼   ► half a year or whatever it's been,

01:03:25 ◼   ► the camera Bump does not bother me at all.

01:03:27 ◼   ► That is never something that I notice,

01:03:29 ◼   ► that is never something that bothers me.

01:03:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, same.

01:03:32 ◼   ► - What bothers me about this phone is that

01:03:34 ◼   ► it is pretty big in the pocket and pretty heavy,

01:03:36 ◼   ► and my whole pants journey that I went through last fall.

01:03:39 ◼   ► You know what, I'm like halfway through that

01:03:41 ◼   ► by having bought my fancy spoke pants,

01:03:44 ◼   ► but also it still is noticeable.

01:03:47 ◼   ► I do wish that I had a smaller and lighter weight phone,

01:03:52 ◼   ► but the camera is really, really good.

01:03:57 ◼   ► And so I am glad I didn't go mini this time

01:03:59 ◼   ► just for the camera alone,

01:04:00 ◼   ► and actually if these rumors hold,

01:04:02 ◼   ► it seems like they're gonna be an even bigger difference

01:04:04 ◼   ► in specs because the rumors are that possibly

01:04:07 ◼   ► that the iPhone 14 non-pro models

01:04:12 ◼   ► are going to retain the A15 processor.

01:04:16 ◼   ► And that the iPhone 14 Pro only will go to the A,

01:04:21 ◼   ► presumably it's called A16,

01:04:22 ◼   ► whatever the next processor is.

01:04:24 ◼   ► So it looks like there, if this is true,

01:04:27 ◼   ► and iPhone rumors tend to be pretty accurate

01:04:29 ◼   ► 'cause it's just so hard to keep that kind of scale

01:04:31 ◼   ► of an operation quiet.

01:04:33 ◼   ► But if this is true, then this year there's going to be

01:04:36 ◼   ► more differentiation than ever, assuming this big

01:04:40 ◼   ► 48 megapixel camera is probably also pro only,

01:04:43 ◼   ► between the pro models and the non-pro models.

01:04:45 ◼   ► And so that'll be interesting to watch,

01:04:47 ◼   ► but I have a feeling this is going to very, very quickly

01:04:52 ◼   ► make people who are really serious about this kind of stuff

01:04:55 ◼   ► jump for the pro instead of whatever other

01:04:59 ◼   ► physical advantages might be present on the lower end models.

01:05:02 ◼   ► Speaking of differentiation, even within the pro phones,

01:05:05 ◼   ► if the 1X camera is 48 megapixels,

01:05:08 ◼   ► but they don't really substantially also upgrade

01:05:11 ◼   ► the other two cameras, boy, it's gonna be a big fall

01:05:14 ◼   ► from switching from the 1X.

01:05:15 ◼   ► Like already the 2X you can tell

01:05:16 ◼   ► is not quite as good as the 1X,

01:05:18 ◼   ► but maybe they'll, you know, they do the thing

01:05:20 ◼   ► where the Apple's camera app sort of decides

01:05:23 ◼   ► when it's appropriate to use which lens.

01:05:25 ◼   ► And it seems like in a lot of scenarios,

01:05:27 ◼   ► it would be better to continue to use the 1X

01:05:29 ◼   ► and like crop it maybe, than falling off the tour.

01:05:32 ◼   ► I don't know what the rumors are for the other two lenses.

01:05:34 ◼   ► Maybe they'll be mildly improved as well.

01:05:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause the 3X camera is not very good.

01:05:40 ◼   ► It really isn't.

01:05:41 ◼   ► - With just this rumor, it suddenly seems like

01:05:44 ◼   ► you have an unbalanced camera system,

01:05:45 ◼   ► or one of your cameras suddenly got way, way, way better

01:05:48 ◼   ► and bigger, and the other two are there too.

01:05:50 ◼   ► And as for the product line,

01:05:54 ◼   ► I think we talked about this on a past show,

01:05:56 ◼   ► like the non-Pro phones having A15 instead.

01:06:01 ◼   ► And there's no getting around it.

01:06:02 ◼   ► That's a downgrade as far as customers are concerned, right?

01:06:05 ◼   ► Because it was really great when a customer could

01:06:07 ◼   ► get a plain old iPhone 13,

01:06:08 ◼   ► it had the exact same system on a chip as the Pro one, right?

01:06:12 ◼   ► And it's not even like you can say,

01:06:15 ◼   ► oh, well, when they have the 15,

01:06:16 ◼   ► I bet their battery life will be better.

01:06:18 ◼   ► 'Cause it's not like they're fabbing the 15 on a different,

01:06:19 ◼   ► it's just, it's gonna be the A15 as the A15 ever was,

01:06:22 ◼   ► fab the same way it always was.

01:06:24 ◼   ► So it doesn't suddenly get lower power either.

01:06:27 ◼   ► And so that's just, that's not as good

01:06:30 ◼   ► is having the 16 and everything.

01:06:32 ◼   ► And that's disappointing and there's no way around it.

01:06:34 ◼   ► It's not like Apple's gonna pass the savings on to you.

01:06:36 ◼   ► The systematic chip is not the most expensive part

01:06:38 ◼   ► of those phones.

01:06:39 ◼   ► Anyway, on the bright side, the other part of the rumor

01:06:42 ◼   ► is that the pro and non-pro lines

01:06:45 ◼   ► will all have a full range of sizes.

01:06:47 ◼   ► Like there'll be a non-pro big phone,

01:06:48 ◼   ► non-pro max essentially.

01:06:50 ◼   ► It's not, these names are so confusing.

01:06:52 ◼   ► I listened back to episodes of the show

01:06:53 ◼   ► and I screwed up so many times.

01:06:54 ◼   ► Anyway, there will be like a iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 max

01:06:59 ◼   ► and there'll be iPhone 14 Pro and iPhone 14 Pro Max.

01:07:04 ◼   ► And the chips and the Macs will be Pro and Max,

01:07:08 ◼   ► but there will be no chip and a Mac called Pro Max.

01:07:09 ◼   ► Anyway, it's their own stupid fault for doing this.

01:07:13 ◼   ► But having a big phone that is not a Pro is such a,

01:07:17 ◼   ► I don't know why they waited so long to do it.

01:07:18 ◼   ► 'Cause sometimes people want a really big phone.

01:07:20 ◼   ► They shouldn't be forced to pay

01:07:21 ◼   ► for the most expensive phone that Apple makes

01:07:23 ◼   ► just because they want a bigger screen, right?

01:07:25 ◼   ► So that's the good part of the new rumored arrangement,

01:07:29 ◼   ► but I just, you know, I understand why, like, hey,

01:07:33 ◼   ► if you're gonna have a pro line, it should have,

01:07:34 ◼   ► maybe it should have a bigger advantage

01:07:36 ◼   ► over the non-pro line, as opposed to the 13s,

01:07:38 ◼   ► where they were, you know, almost identical

01:07:40 ◼   ► except for the camera, but it's just not as good

01:07:43 ◼   ► as a consumer to get the A15 in the non-pro phone, right?

01:07:46 ◼   ► It's just not, so that's kind of a bummer.

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01:09:43 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:09:46 ◼   ► - All right, you wanna do some Ask ATP?

01:09:48 ◼   ► - Let's do it.

01:09:49 ◼   ► - Let's start tonight with Elijah,

01:09:51 ◼   ► who writes, "I have been a long time Canon user,

01:09:55 ◼   ► but I've seen the writing on the wall for a while

01:09:56 ◼   ► that DSLRs are being replaced by mirrorless cameras.

01:09:59 ◼   ► Since I have to buy lenses again anyway

01:10:01 ◼   ► to follow this trend, should I stick with Canons

01:10:03 ◼   ► or why should I jump to Sony?"

01:10:05 ◼   ► Jon, I think you're the most enthusiastic about Sony,

01:10:08 ◼   ► although Marco, you're not far behind.

01:10:09 ◼   ► So Jon, do you want to start

01:10:10 ◼   ► and then Marco take it away after?

01:10:12 ◼   ► - I didn't even know that you would need to buy new lenses

01:10:13 ◼   ► or that you can't use them.

01:10:14 ◼   ► It makes sense, obviously,

01:10:15 ◼   ► the distance of the sensor from the front of the lens

01:10:17 ◼   ► or whatever, but anyway,

01:10:18 ◼   ► I think Canon and Sony are very different.

01:10:21 ◼   ► in terms of like, it's like differences in car manufacturers,

01:10:25 ◼   ► if you just like, if you, you get used to the way

01:10:28 ◼   ► certain car manufacturers do things,

01:10:29 ◼   ► whether it's stupid Porsche with their ignition key

01:10:31 ◼   ► in the wrong spot or bottom hinged, you know,

01:10:35 ◼   ► pedals or, you know, whatever, like,

01:10:38 ◼   ► even if it's just how the stocks work

01:10:40 ◼   ► or how the cars are priced, like,

01:10:41 ◼   ► there are things that are just sort of arbitrary decisions

01:10:44 ◼   ► that you just get used to.

01:10:45 ◼   ► And if you try a different brand,

01:10:49 ◼   ► Those arbitrary decisions,

01:10:51 ◼   ► even when they're not actually worse or better,

01:10:53 ◼   ► seem foreign to you, and that is very true of cameras.

01:10:56 ◼   ► And then it goes from there up to all,

01:10:58 ◼   ► even more important things like value judgments,

01:11:00 ◼   ► what's important to spend money on, what's not,

01:11:03 ◼   ► how big, what's more important, small size,

01:11:06 ◼   ► or battery life, or portability, or grippiness in the hand,

01:11:09 ◼   ► or how many buttons are there versus knobs versus joysticks

01:11:13 ◼   ► and how do they feel.

01:11:15 ◼   ► There is such a huge difference between Canon and Sony.

01:11:18 ◼   ► I like Sony better, but if you're used to Canon,

01:11:22 ◼   ► almost certainly you're gonna like Canon better.

01:11:24 ◼   ► Like it's almost impossible to imagine someone

01:11:27 ◼   ► who used Canon for years, tries a Sony and goes,

01:11:29 ◼   ► "Wow, this is much better."

01:11:30 ◼   ► That is not gonna happen.

01:11:31 ◼   ► 'Cause it is so different.

01:11:33 ◼   ► The companies make such different decisions.

01:11:35 ◼   ► They couldn't be any more different.

01:11:36 ◼   ► Like Sony is so about making the camera body

01:11:39 ◼   ► as small as possible.

01:11:41 ◼   ► For years, Sony was, first Sony started,

01:11:43 ◼   ► they wouldn't even make it like a grip for your hand.

01:11:45 ◼   ► And then they put the grip on it

01:11:46 ◼   ► and it was just this tiny little grip.

01:11:47 ◼   ► and it's like, what are you saving the grip size for?

01:11:51 ◼   ► We want a bigger grip so we can grip it better,

01:11:53 ◼   ► and Sony was like, okay, how about we make it

01:11:54 ◼   ► two millimeters bigger?

01:11:55 ◼   ► Three, it's like, what are you doing?

01:11:56 ◼   ► It's like the Johnny Ivey, just put a grip

01:11:58 ◼   ► that fits in a human hand, we have hands,

01:12:00 ◼   ► we have fingers, we need them,

01:12:02 ◼   ► and Sony eventually got the clue on that,

01:12:04 ◼   ► but it took so many years for Sony to even deign

01:12:06 ◼   ► to make the grip a little bit bigger.

01:12:08 ◼   ► That is not a problem on Canon cameras,

01:12:10 ◼   ► especially the big ones.

01:12:11 ◼   ► They put giant grips on them,

01:12:13 ◼   ► the giant battery cases on the things,

01:12:15 ◼   ► the buttons feel different, the UI feels different,

01:12:17 ◼   ► everything about it is different.

01:12:19 ◼   ► So I don't think there's anything anyone could say

01:12:21 ◼   ► to convince you to use a Sony if you like Canons.

01:12:24 ◼   ► If you've been using Canons for years

01:12:25 ◼   ► and you think they're too big

01:12:27 ◼   ► and you don't like how the buttons work

01:12:30 ◼   ► and you hate the UI, then maybe you like the Sony better.

01:12:32 ◼   ► But they really are, and so Canon and Nikon,

01:12:36 ◼   ► I think, are so much closer than Canon and Sony are.

01:12:39 ◼   ► Sony is really sort of--

01:12:40 ◼   ► - Don't their zooms go the opposite direction?

01:12:43 ◼   ► - It depends.

01:12:45 ◼   ► There are lenses for all the different camera systems

01:12:47 ◼   ► that go in different ranges.

01:12:48 ◼   ► I think even Sony made one with the reverse zoom lens on it.

01:12:51 ◼   ► Or maybe I'm thinking of a third party one,

01:12:52 ◼   ► but no one can agree on which direction

01:12:54 ◼   ► the zooms could go.

01:12:55 ◼   ► Or which direction the rings are,

01:12:56 ◼   ► is the zoom ring or the manual focus ring closer to you

01:12:59 ◼   ► or farther away? - Oh yeah.

01:13:01 ◼   ► - It's a little bit of a--

01:13:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's always varied per lens.

01:13:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, but anyway, Canon and Icon are much closer together

01:13:05 ◼   ► than either Canon and Icon are from Sony.

01:13:08 ◼   ► So try one out in the store, hold it,

01:13:10 ◼   ► see what you think of it.

01:13:11 ◼   ► If it appeals to you, I endorse it, I really like Sony.

01:13:14 ◼   ► it matches my tastes and I do enjoy the small sizes

01:13:17 ◼   ► for portability even if the grips are too small.

01:13:19 ◼   ► But if you really love Canon,

01:13:21 ◼   ► Canon makes mirrorless cameras too, just buy one of those.

01:13:24 ◼   ► - I mostly agree.

01:13:25 ◼   ► At first, when I first heard this question,

01:13:27 ◼   ► I thought I probably shouldn't answer this

01:13:28 ◼   ► because I haven't been paying attention

01:13:30 ◼   ► to the recent models of any of these things

01:13:32 ◼   ► 'cause I really haven't been in the camera game.

01:13:34 ◼   ► But I think when you're,

01:13:36 ◼   ► so Elijah's saying already,

01:13:38 ◼   ► they have to buy new lenses no matter what

01:13:42 ◼   ► because of the shift from DSLR to mirrorless.

01:13:45 ◼   ► So it's just a question of whether to invest

01:13:47 ◼   ► in Canon's mirrorless system or Sony's mirrorless system.

01:13:51 ◼   ► Also, not mentioned, Nikon's mirrorless system

01:13:53 ◼   ► is another option, although I know even less about that.

01:13:55 ◼   ► But I think when you're talking about

01:13:58 ◼   ► which system to invest in long term,

01:14:01 ◼   ► you have to look past whatever the current models

01:14:03 ◼   ► of each camera are and look at, in general, over time,

01:14:07 ◼   ► what are each of these brands really best at?

01:14:09 ◼   ► What areas do they tend to specialize in

01:14:12 ◼   ► or prioritize or pay attention to or excel in.

01:14:15 ◼   ► So in my experience over, you know,

01:14:19 ◼   ► geez, 15 years, whatever it's been,

01:14:22 ◼   ► that I've been really into these things,

01:14:24 ◼   ► my impression, having tried a lot of Canon stuff,

01:14:28 ◼   ► a lot of Sony stuff, and almost nothing by anybody else,

01:14:31 ◼   ► so I'm sorry, I really don't know anything about Nikon.

01:14:33 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:14:34 ◼   ► I've used a handful of times, very small handful of times,

01:14:37 ◼   ► but my impression on Nikon seems like

01:14:40 ◼   ► it's very similar to Canon,

01:14:41 ◼   ► but less popular among pro users.

01:14:42 ◼   ► But, you know, 'cause again, just different decisions

01:14:45 ◼   ► as John was saying, certain buttons are in different

01:14:46 ◼   ► locations, certain things work slightly differently,

01:14:48 ◼   ► but you know, generally pretty good.

01:14:50 ◼   ► But in general, I think that Canon is better than Sony

01:14:55 ◼   ► in what I would call pro workflow and pro ergonomics.

01:15:01 ◼   ► So if, you know, as John was saying,

01:15:03 ◼   ► things like the battery grip situations,

01:15:06 ◼   ► you know, if you want, if you have some kind of pro setup,

01:15:09 ◼   ► If you're gonna have like, you know,

01:15:11 ◼   ► some coordinated flashes or some of the big L lenses

01:15:16 ◼   ► with the big telephoto zooms and the sticks

01:15:18 ◼   ► on the side of sports games,

01:15:20 ◼   ► or if you're in the market more for something like

01:15:22 ◼   ► what used to be like the 1D or 1DS series

01:15:25 ◼   ► where you have much more pro abilities,

01:15:27 ◼   ► pro sports shootings, stuff like that,

01:15:29 ◼   ► I think Canon has always had an edge in that area over Sony