ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► Yes, I was a few minutes late today because I was battling with broken computer stuff.

00:00:06 ◼   ► Uh oh. Oh, me too!

00:00:08 ◼   ► No, not that kind of broken computer stuff.

00:00:10 ◼   ► I should I didn't know not to do this right before I was supposed to record a podcast, but whatever.

00:00:17 ◼   ► My son is setting up his account at his college. He's selected a college, he's enrolled.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Oh, congrats!

00:00:24 ◼   ► You know, you get to set up your computer account, right?

00:00:27 ◼   ► And I wanted to go through it and make sure everything was all right or whatever,

00:00:29 ◼   ► and all that stuff.

00:00:32 ◼   ► And the account made him set up two-factor, whatever.

00:00:34 ◼   ► I don't know, it asked him to set up two-factor, and he did.

00:00:37 ◼   ► And he used the Google Authenticator app,

00:00:38 ◼   ► because it's an app that he had used previously, I think,

00:00:40 ◼   ► for two-factor stuff.

00:00:41 ◼   ► But anyway, he had it on his phone, and he did that.

00:00:44 ◼   ► But I wanted to get it set up in the Apple two-factor thing,

00:00:47 ◼   ► because it's nice when you're in Safari or on your Mac

00:00:50 ◼   ► or whatever.

00:00:51 ◼   ► Apple has-- people who don't know--

00:00:53 ◼   ► the Apple has a thing in their iCloud keychain thing

00:00:56 ◼   ► where it can do two-factor stuff for you.

00:00:58 ◼   ► You don't have to launch a separate app or whatever.

00:00:59 ◼   ► It will auto-fill right in the thing

00:01:01 ◼   ► out of your iCloud keychain.

00:01:02 ◼   ► That's what I wanted to set up for him,

00:01:05 ◼   ► because yes, you can have the Google Authenticator app,

00:01:06 ◼   ► but it would be nice for also it to be integrated with,

00:01:09 ◼   ► you know, iOS and macOS and all that other stuff.

00:01:12 ◼   ► Seems like a simple task.

00:01:15 ◼   ► It is technically possible, technically 100% possible,

00:01:19 ◼   ► but frustratingly annoying to do.

00:01:21 ◼   ► So here are the two things.

00:01:25 ◼   ► So first of all, I wouldn't be angry and late if it wasn't for the fact that the school's

00:01:30 ◼   ► thing is broken.

00:01:32 ◼   ► So that's the first problem.

00:01:33 ◼   ► The first problem is that--

00:01:35 ◼   ► Definitely not your fault, John.

00:01:36 ◼   ► Definitely not.

00:01:37 ◼   ► I'll tell you how the school thing is broken.

00:01:38 ◼   ► The school thing was broken in a pretty bad way.

00:01:40 ◼   ► But how did I find out the school thing was broken?

00:01:41 ◼   ► Well, I was trying to accomplish that task.

00:01:43 ◼   ► So he'd already set it up.

00:01:45 ◼   ► It was set up, and we logged in with it with two-factor.

00:01:47 ◼   ► He's got a username.

00:01:48 ◼   ► He's got a password.

00:01:49 ◼   ► He's got two-factor right out of the little authenticator app.

00:01:51 ◼   ► Logs you in.

00:01:52 ◼   ► Right.

00:01:53 ◼   ► has ever done this now again it is technically possible to take that

00:01:57 ◼   ► information and shove it into the Apple thing but it is not easy and is

00:02:02 ◼   ► definitely not easy to do when you're trying to do it ten minutes before you

00:02:04 ◼   ► have to podcast right so here's the problem the Apple thing wants you to go

00:02:08 ◼   ► on the happy path which is I am using Safari to set up my account on this

00:02:14 ◼   ► website I'm going to enable two-factor it has presented me with a QR code or

00:02:18 ◼   ► some other thing oh look in Safari I can just right click on that and it says do

00:02:21 ◼   ► Do you want to set this up as the authentication thing

00:02:23 ◼   ► in the barber?

00:02:24 ◼   ► And I say yes, and it magically goes in.

00:02:26 ◼   ► That's what they want you to do.

00:02:28 ◼   ► But of course, that already happened a while ago.

00:02:32 ◼   ► It's already set up in two-factor,

00:02:33 ◼   ► and we didn't do it the Apple way.

00:02:36 ◼   ► So here we are now.

00:02:37 ◼   ► I say, I want to get this two-factor thing

00:02:40 ◼   ► into the Apple system without invalidating the existing

00:02:46 ◼   ► thing.

00:02:46 ◼   ► Again, technically possible, especially

00:02:48 ◼   ► since Google Authenticator added an export function.

00:02:50 ◼   ► can export and it'll show you a QR code with that export

00:02:53 ◼   ► information or whatever.

00:02:54 ◼   ► And then you can decode that QR code,

00:02:58 ◼   ► and then you can do basic base64 decoded,

00:03:00 ◼   ► and then you can run it through a protobuf thing

00:03:02 ◼   ► and try to get out the data.

00:03:03 ◼   ► Like this is what I'm doing.

00:03:04 ◼   ► 10 minutes before the thing starts.

00:03:05 ◼   ► This is seriously what you have to do?

00:03:06 ◼   ► Oh my gosh.

00:03:07 ◼   ► But the point is, it's not like the data is there.

00:03:10 ◼   ► Like QR cards aren't magic.

00:03:11 ◼   ► It's just data, right?

00:03:12 ◼   ► But because you can export two-factor stuff

00:03:14 ◼   ► from the Google Authenticator app as a QR code.

00:03:17 ◼   ► What you can't do easily is get that QR code,

00:03:21 ◼   ► as far as I know, into Apple's system, right?

00:03:25 ◼   ► So you go to the Google Authenticator app,

00:03:26 ◼   ► you get the QR code, you can take a screenshot of it,

00:03:29 ◼   ► you can take a photo or whatever.

00:03:30 ◼   ► I just wanna get that into the Apple system

00:03:32 ◼   ► and they make it so hard.

00:03:33 ◼   ► The way I used to do it is I would go

00:03:35 ◼   ► to the two-factor setup page of the website

00:03:38 ◼   ► and I would take the QR code

00:03:40 ◼   ► from the Google Authenticator app, save it as an image,

00:03:43 ◼   ► turn it into a data URL,

00:03:45 ◼   ► use the DOM inspector to paste it in as the image source

00:03:49 ◼   ► of the setup thing.

00:03:49 ◼   ► And then Safari would be tricked into thinking,

00:03:51 ◼   ► "Oh, do you want me to use that QR code as the setup thing?"

00:03:54 ◼   ► 'Cause it's on a setup page,

00:03:55 ◼   ► like whatever heuristics it uses,

00:03:57 ◼   ► I would bring to the real setup page,

00:03:59 ◼   ► but I wouldn't like click through it.

00:04:01 ◼   ► I would just bring to the real setup page

00:04:02 ◼   ► and I would replace the image with a data URL

00:04:05 ◼   ► of the QR code from the Google Authenticator app.

00:04:08 ◼   ► That used to work.

00:04:09 ◼   ► But now when you right click in Safari,

00:04:11 ◼   ► somehow it's smart and it goes,

00:04:13 ◼   ► I don't see any QR code here.

00:04:15 ◼   ► I don't know what you're on.

00:04:16 ◼   ► Like it doesn't even show the line item

00:04:17 ◼   ► for setup verification system.

00:04:19 ◼   ► So please, please Ricky, if you're listening.

00:04:22 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:04:23 ◼   ► I just, if I've got a QR code,

00:04:26 ◼   ► like if you go to the passwords thing

00:04:27 ◼   ► in system parameters, it says,

00:04:29 ◼   ► oh, do you want to enter a setup code here?

00:04:31 ◼   ► I don't know what it wants from me from a setup code.

00:04:33 ◼   ► Like I've got a QR code and I can decode it

00:04:35 ◼   ► and I can pull out different pieces,

00:04:36 ◼   ► but I don't know what it wants from me from a setup code.

00:04:39 ◼   ► It's like, please, can I just give you an image of a QR code?

00:04:41 ◼   ► I've got a ping, I've got a JPEG.

00:04:43 ◼   ► Can I just, can you let me scan it with my phone?

00:04:45 ◼   ► That's the one thing I didn't try.

00:04:46 ◼   ► Maybe there's a way if you do it on iOS,

00:04:48 ◼   ► maybe you can just take a picture of it

00:04:49 ◼   ► with the phone's camera and it'll let you edit.

00:04:51 ◼   ► But I couldn't figure it out

00:04:52 ◼   ► and it was making me very angry

00:04:54 ◼   ► and it's like, I'm so close.

00:04:55 ◼   ► Like, why Safari?

00:04:58 ◼   ► 'Cause they want it to be magic.

00:04:59 ◼   ► Oh, you just right click on the QR code

00:05:00 ◼   ► and it says, set this up as authentication.

00:05:03 ◼   ► But it somehow is angered by me editing the DOM,

00:05:06 ◼   ► which maybe makes sense.

00:05:07 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:05:08 ◼   ► If you were to look at the webpage,

00:05:09 ◼   ► you'd say, there's a QR code.

00:05:11 ◼   ► when I right click in Safari, why doesn't it take it?

00:05:13 ◼   ► It's not the real QR code,

00:05:15 ◼   ► it's the one I made into a data URL

00:05:17 ◼   ► and paste it into the source thing.

00:05:19 ◼   ► I kind of get it, but it's just so much harder

00:05:22 ◼   ► than it needs to be because it's like,

00:05:24 ◼   ► you guys, the data is right here.

00:05:26 ◼   ► It's often on the same computer

00:05:27 ◼   ► 'cause I had one window logged in and Chrome

00:05:30 ◼   ► and then the Safari window, it was like, same team people.

00:05:32 ◼   ► We're all here, let's just make this happen.

00:05:34 ◼   ► And I just could not do it.

00:05:36 ◼   ► So anyway, that's just angering me.

00:05:39 ◼   ► And so I'm like, okay, well, why am I trying to do this?

00:05:41 ◼   ► This is just stupid thing to be doing.

00:05:42 ◼   ► Like, oh, you have the two factor audio setup

00:05:44 ◼   ► and you're trying to transfer it to the Apple thing.

00:05:46 ◼   ► Well, yes, again, it is technically possible.

00:05:48 ◼   ► I know, I've done it.

00:05:49 ◼   ► I've done it multiple times,

00:05:50 ◼   ► but oh, you can't figure out how to get it to work this time.

00:05:53 ◼   ► It's obviously not a supported use case, just forget it.

00:05:55 ◼   ► And what's the thing you should do then?

00:05:56 ◼   ► How about just start over?

00:05:58 ◼   ► - Or use one password.

00:05:59 ◼   ► - Do you use one password?

00:06:01 ◼   ► No, I want it into the Apple thing.

00:06:03 ◼   ► - This is the most effort I've ever heard

00:06:06 ◼   ► to avoid using one password.

00:06:07 ◼   ► - Right?

00:06:08 ◼   ► - Thank you. - No, I don't wanna

00:06:09 ◼   ► use one password.

00:06:10 ◼   ► The goal is I want it in the Apple operating system thing,

00:06:13 ◼   ► in addition to other places that it might be.

00:06:15 ◼   ► So yes, it could be in one password,

00:06:16 ◼   ► but if it was a one password,

00:06:17 ◼   ► I would also want it in the Apple thing.

00:06:20 ◼   ► Like that's the goal here,

00:06:21 ◼   ► to get in the iOS, iCloud key chain,

00:06:23 ◼   ► you know, that whole deal, right?

00:06:26 ◼   ► Anyway, so I'm like, okay,

00:06:28 ◼   ► well you can just reset up Two-Factor.

00:06:29 ◼   ► Anyone who has Two-Factor knows you can do this.

00:06:31 ◼   ► If you just say, okay, I wanna set up Two-Factor again,

00:06:33 ◼   ► I got a new phone, or I'm gonna get a new phone,

00:06:35 ◼   ► or whatever, you can just go in,

00:06:37 ◼   ► you log in with your existing two-factor and you say,

00:06:39 ◼   ► I want a new two-factor.

00:06:40 ◼   ► And it gives you a new QR code, and you scan the new QR code,

00:06:43 ◼   ► or you're right-clicking Safari or whatever,

00:06:45 ◼   ► and that's your new two-factor.

00:06:47 ◼   ► And since I'm doing that from the beginning,

00:06:49 ◼   ► I can do that from the beginning from Safari, the happy path.

00:06:53 ◼   ► I go in and do a Safari, I right-click.

00:06:55 ◼   ► Then it does give you the option, set up a two-factor.

00:06:58 ◼   ► And of course, like all good two-factor things, it says,

00:07:00 ◼   ► but I'm not letting you off the screen

00:07:02 ◼   ► until you type in the magic code that you now get out

00:07:04 ◼   ► of the Safari Apple thing,

00:07:07 ◼   ► like to show that you successfully did it.

00:07:09 ◼   ► So I do that, I set it up in Safari,

00:07:11 ◼   ► it says please enter the six digit code here,

00:07:14 ◼   ► and Safari auto fills the six digit code, right?

00:07:16 ◼   ► 'Cause that's the whole point of this feature,

00:07:18 ◼   ► and it works and it says, great,

00:07:19 ◼   ► I believe that you successfully set up two factor, right?

00:07:23 ◼   ► It even gives you backup codes, the whole nine yards.

00:07:25 ◼   ► You're like, this is awesome, everything's great.

00:07:27 ◼   ► But this is where the schools bugs come in.

00:07:30 ◼   ► If then you try to log in, in any other web browser,

00:07:34 ◼   ► your codes won't work, the six digit code,

00:07:36 ◼   ► which will not work, right?

00:07:38 ◼   ► And I tried it in different accounts

00:07:40 ◼   ► and different devices or whatever.

00:07:42 ◼   ► And even though it successfully worked

00:07:44 ◼   ► when I configured it, it won't work anywhere else.

00:07:48 ◼   ► And that's a scary situation to be in

00:07:50 ◼   ► where you think you've just successfully set up two factor,

00:07:52 ◼   ► you've verified to the system that you've set up two factor

00:07:55 ◼   ► by entering the six digits from the QR code

00:07:57 ◼   ► that you just scanned and it says, yes, great, that's good,

00:08:00 ◼   ► but you can't log in anywhere else

00:08:02 ◼   ► because everyplace else you go, you enter a username, password,

00:08:05 ◼   ► it prompts you for the code, and whatever code you enter

00:08:07 ◼   ► from your thing, it says, nope, not valid.

00:08:09 ◼   ► That is not encouraging at all.

00:08:11 ◼   ► That's the school's bug, OK?

00:08:12 ◼   ► Because that's not the way the world's supposed to work.

00:08:14 ◼   ► That's just broken.

00:08:15 ◼   ► It's a bug.

00:08:15 ◼   ► But then what do you do?

00:08:17 ◼   ► So luckily, the school had a big honking button

00:08:19 ◼   ► on the setup screen, which I'm frantically making sure

00:08:22 ◼   ► that I stay logged into, right?

00:08:24 ◼   ► That says, disable multi-factor authentication.

00:08:27 ◼   ► All right, I got a podcast.

00:08:29 ◼   ► Let me just disable multi-factor authentication entirely.

00:08:32 ◼   ► click disable multi-factor and says, boop, it goes back

00:08:34 ◼   ► and goes back to the screen.

00:08:36 ◼   ► And now the button is set up multi-factor authentication.

00:08:38 ◼   ► The disable button's gone, and now I

00:08:40 ◼   ► have a button to set it up.

00:08:41 ◼   ► But I don't want to set it up.

00:08:42 ◼   ► And I want to deal with this now.

00:08:43 ◼   ► Let me just disable multi-factor.

00:08:44 ◼   ► But of course, me being me, I don't trust the system anymore.

00:08:47 ◼   ► I try logging in from literally anywhere else.

00:08:50 ◼   ► And it prompts me for, please enter your verification code

00:08:53 ◼   ► for your multi-factor authentication.

00:08:54 ◼   ► Oh, no.

00:08:55 ◼   ► I just disabled it.

00:08:57 ◼   ► I'm logged in here.

00:08:58 ◼   ► I'm staring at the screen where it is disabled.

00:09:02 ◼   ► so angry, like it's just totally broken.

00:09:05 ◼   ► And of course, none of the, you know,

00:09:07 ◼   ► no codes from the existing ones that I had saved before

00:09:10 ◼   ► worked, the original one or the new one.

00:09:13 ◼   ► It doesn't matter what you enter, nothing works.

00:09:15 ◼   ► And I knew, I knew for a fact that if I logged out

00:09:17 ◼   ► of that one window where I was logged in,

00:09:18 ◼   ► I would never be able to log in again, right?

00:09:20 ◼   ► I just know.

00:09:21 ◼   ► Now I know the system is broken, I know how it's broken.

00:09:23 ◼   ► It thinks I've disabled two factor,

00:09:25 ◼   ► but it's still prompting me for it.

00:09:26 ◼   ► So the best I could do was it seemed there was an iOS app.

00:09:29 ◼   ► So I downloaded the iOS app on two different phones.

00:09:31 ◼   ► I logged into the iOS app using a special iOS app specific

00:09:35 ◼   ► login QR code.

00:09:36 ◼   ► So now I'm logged in on two iPhones.

00:09:39 ◼   ► And then I logged out in the web browser

00:09:40 ◼   ► and sure enough, no web browser can ever log in again

00:09:42 ◼   ► 'cause even though two-factor is supposedly disabled,

00:09:45 ◼   ► it prompts you for the two-factor code.

00:09:47 ◼   ► So then from one of the logged in iPhones,

00:09:50 ◼   ► I contacted the online support chat and said, here I am.

00:09:53 ◼   ► And I'm locked out of my thing 'cause it says

00:09:56 ◼   ► because I disabled two-factor,

00:09:57 ◼   ► but it thinks I still have it enabled.

00:09:59 ◼   ► And they just directed me to talk to some other thing

00:10:01 ◼   ► or whatever, and then I had to start podcasting.

00:10:02 ◼   ► So school stuff is broken, whatever, that's annoying.

00:10:06 ◼   ► But I feel like the main, you know,

00:10:09 ◼   ► that's just bugs, that's just whatever.

00:10:11 ◼   ► But I really wish, and again, if you can do this in iOS,

00:10:14 ◼   ► I didn't get a chance to look at that,

00:10:16 ◼   ► but I really wish there was an easier way to say,

00:10:18 ◼   ► I've already got two-factor setup somewhere,

00:10:20 ◼   ► whether that's in 1Password, in Google Authenticator,

00:10:23 ◼   ► in one of the 50 other, in Authy,

00:10:25 ◼   ► in one of the 50 other two-factor apps.

00:10:27 ◼   ► Almost all of those systems have a way

00:10:28 ◼   ► to you sort of export that two-factor thing either by showing a QR code or whatever I

00:10:33 ◼   ► Want what's the point of exporting if I can't import it?

00:10:37 ◼   ► the only thing I can find to import an Apple thing is

00:10:39 ◼   ► Cleverly make a Safari web page on the actual website

00:10:43 ◼   ► So you can trick it into showing that line item on the right-click menu

00:10:46 ◼   ► which apparently I've now lost the ability to do no matter how clever I get or

00:10:50 ◼   ► Enter what it calls a setup key and I have no freaking idea what it wants for me. They're like

00:10:55 ◼   ► Is it the base 32 decoded section of the base 64 encoded data section of the proto buffer from the goo?

00:11:01 ◼   ► I don't know but anything I entered there it would accept all sorts of garbage, but it wouldn't be right

00:11:05 ◼   ► So I'm obviously entering the wrong thing there. So

00:11:07 ◼   ► Please make this easier like two-factor information is our information

00:11:13 ◼   ► We should be allowed to have it in off the in one password in Google authenticator and in iCloud keychain

00:11:18 ◼   ► There should be a way to go from one place to the other and it should be way easier than it is

00:11:24 ◼   ► So Alex's first real interaction with his forthcoming school is going to be his dad breaking his login

00:11:31 ◼   ► I didn't break his login the school broke the log

00:11:34 ◼   ► Yeah, not my fault. You guys my fault if I click disable multi-factor authentication

00:11:39 ◼   ► And then it proceeds to always prompt me for a multi-factor authentication. That's not me. That's not on me at all

00:11:44 ◼   ► That's just a broken system in school. You know, I wasn't hacking I was just discovering vulnerabilities. Mm-hmm

00:11:52 ◼   ► I'd like to start with a little bit of follow out if I may clockwise episode 449

00:11:58 ◼   ► It featured one John, Syracuse

00:12:01 ◼   ► And this is remarkable because of all the guest spots that you've done John on all the great podcasts and all the great shows

00:12:07 ◼   ► It was very unusual if it has ever happened

00:12:11 ◼   ► I know there was a little bit of debate on the show

00:12:13 ◼   ► But if it has ever happened

00:12:14 ◼   ► It's very unusual for you to be able to record clockwise at noon your time on a Wednesday

00:12:19 ◼   ► But it's a whole new world baby. And here is John Siracusa appearing on clockwise made me very happy

00:12:24 ◼   ► Yeah, Dan tells me that I did it in the past and I probably did back when Jason was hosting like years and years and

00:12:30 ◼   ► Years ago, but I had no recollection. I didn't even remember how the show worked

00:12:33 ◼   ► I didn't even know that there was a fixed order that people go around it

00:12:36 ◼   ► So I was just I was just total, you know as Allison called me on the show is total noob

00:12:41 ◼   ► Well, it was it was a good episode and well under 30 minutes

00:12:45 ◼   ► I was quite surprised. But I'm using this as a crummy excuse to ask you, you know, how is your new world?

00:12:50 ◼   ► I know a lot of this is covered on rectiffs and I know I'm kind of in

00:12:52 ◼   ► I'm inviting myself into Merlin's world and I apologize profusely. I'm stealing Merlin's valor on this but so now how is your whole new world?

00:13:00 ◼   ► He's so mad. How is your whole new world?

00:13:02 ◼   ► Is there anything you'd like to share with the group right here on ATP on your big show? I don't think there are any

00:13:07 ◼   ► New developments in that area. I did talk a lot about it on rectiffs and how weird it was and how strangely stressful and that

00:13:15 ◼   ► That kind of continues because I'm still working on those boulders, that giant life backlog

00:13:20 ◼   ► of things that I have to get done and we're still working through them.

00:13:24 ◼   ► Every time I think we're making progress – I did make progress on one.

00:13:26 ◼   ► I mean you've seen this in the neutral channel.

00:13:28 ◼   ► We had a little problem with the car.

00:13:30 ◼   ► We had a kind of a fender bender and getting that repaired was a surprise thing to be thrown

00:13:36 ◼   ► in the pile and we actually finally got the car back and despite – the only bad thing

00:13:42 ◼   ► that happened as a result of that, aside from us having to pay our deductible, is they tried

00:13:46 ◼   ► to clean the inside of the car and they used like Armor All and you know how that is. I

00:13:49 ◼   ► don't like it.

00:13:50 ◼   ► - Oh god, everything's all slippery and shiny.

00:13:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's gross. And so I spent a lot of the, it was spent a little while this afternoon

00:13:57 ◼   ► trying, it was like outgassing onto the windshield and gross. I spent a little while trying to

00:14:00 ◼   ► essentially wipe off the Armor All from the inside.

00:14:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, you gotta get in there like with a towel.

00:14:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, spent some time doing that this afternoon. But anyway, that's an example of like a surprise

00:14:09 ◼   ► I was like, "Surprise, you gotta deal with cars

00:14:11 ◼   ► "and insurance and whatever."

00:14:12 ◼   ► And I'm just glad I got that done.

00:14:13 ◼   ► But there's so many other big backlog items

00:14:15 ◼   ► that I just trying to drag kicking and screaming

00:14:18 ◼   ► across the finish line.

00:14:19 ◼   ► And I look at them and like, I have a to-do list,

00:14:20 ◼   ► you know, and a notes thing or whatever.

00:14:22 ◼   ► And I don't check them off until they're done.

00:14:24 ◼   ► So there was an item that said, you know,

00:14:26 ◼   ► "Fix car," right?

00:14:28 ◼   ► I just checked that off because like,

00:14:29 ◼   ► car is back on the driveway, it is fixed.

00:14:32 ◼   ► And I checked it off, but I can't check off

00:14:35 ◼   ► any of the other ones because they're all like,

00:14:37 ◼   ► Still one or two more things to be done.

00:14:40 ◼   ► And that's kind of still the phase I'm in, working on those boulders.

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00:16:01 ◼   ► for the entire time I've been a customer there.

00:16:04 ◼   ► Every so often I'll look around and I'll see like,

00:16:06 ◼   ► what's everyone else charging for these kind of resources?

00:16:08 ◼   ► And Linode is always either matching or beating

00:16:11 ◼   ► everyone else that I can find.

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00:16:14 ◼   ► So I just love Linode.

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00:16:31 ◼   ► no matter what, $100 in credit with any new account.

00:16:33 ◼   ► Once again, linode.com/atp.

00:16:36 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Linode for being an awesome host

00:16:39 ◼   ► and for sponsoring our show.

00:16:40 ◼   ► - That brings us to my victory tour.

00:16:47 ◼   ► There was a great showing for t-shirts

00:16:50 ◼   ► and membership recently, so genuinely, thank you so much

00:16:52 ◼   ► to anyone who even thought about buying a t-shirt

00:16:55 ◼   ► or a mug or a glass or has considered a membership

00:16:59 ◼   ► or maybe bought a membership.

00:17:00 ◼   ► maybe you canceled, but you certainly don't have to.

00:17:02 ◼   ► Maybe you didn't.

00:17:03 ◼   ► - Well, and honestly, we're doing great,

00:17:05 ◼   ► and it's very clear that there was a

00:17:09 ◼   ► John Siracusa is now self-employed bump in membership.

00:17:12 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, that's no joke, that's for real.

00:17:13 ◼   ► - You know, normally when we have merchandise sales,

00:17:15 ◼   ► we get a small bump, just because people

00:17:18 ◼   ► actually listen to John and sign up for a little bit,

00:17:20 ◼   ► get the code, and then maybe cancel later if they want to.

00:17:22 ◼   ► But you know, you don't have to.

00:17:24 ◼   ► But this is a substantially bigger bump

00:17:26 ◼   ► than I think we usually get from membership sales,

00:17:29 ◼   ► And I attribute that entirely to the John effect,

00:17:32 ◼   ► because John is the public's favorite member of the show

00:17:34 ◼   ► by a long shot, and so.

00:17:36 ◼   ► - I don't know about that.

00:17:37 ◼   ► - Oh, 1000% true.

00:17:39 ◼   ► - I think the bump was the same size as it always is.

00:17:41 ◼   ► If you wanna make it a bump for me,

00:17:43 ◼   ► what I would say is more people need to forget to cancel.

00:17:46 ◼   ► So that's what we'll see.

00:17:47 ◼   ► What we see is we see the bump,

00:17:49 ◼   ► I didn't measure it last time,

00:17:50 ◼   ► but my recollection is that it is a similar size bump.

00:17:53 ◼   ► People know what we say.

00:17:54 ◼   ► Sign up for the membership, get the discount,

00:17:55 ◼   ► and then cancel if you want to.

00:17:56 ◼   ► but it's like how many people don't cancel?

00:17:59 ◼   ► How many people stick around

00:18:01 ◼   ► or will we just fall back to the levels we were before?

00:18:02 ◼   ► - All of them.

00:18:03 ◼   ► All of them should not cancel.

00:18:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, and so the final results,

00:18:06 ◼   ► this is where my victory lap begins.

00:18:08 ◼   ► The Ultra shirt, 311 sales,

00:18:11 ◼   ► as of when I looked right after the sale ended.

00:18:14 ◼   ► The Interposer shirt, 1,676, baby, that's 5.3 times.

00:18:19 ◼   ► So #CaseyWasRight.

00:18:22 ◼   ► Well, I'm kind of stealing your valor now

00:18:25 ◼   ► because it was your idea in the first place,

00:18:26 ◼   ► but then you poo-pooed it. I don't care. I'm taking it as mine.

00:18:29 ◼   ► Hashtag Casey was right. 5.3 times. I am so excited to get my interposer shirt.

00:18:34 ◼   ► Thank you genuinely to anyone who has signed up for membership or even considered

00:18:37 ◼   ► it, who's bought a t-shirt or any of the other merchandise. Oh,

00:18:39 ◼   ► and I should mention that if you did miss the sale,

00:18:42 ◼   ► you do not have to tweet me either comically or otherwise, but we do have, um,

00:18:47 ◼   ► the old shirts, the, the pre ultra shirts are up. Uh, the, the,

00:18:52 ◼   ► the print as you want shirts are up.

00:18:53 ◼   ► and remember that these do not have anything on the back

00:18:57 ◼   ► and the shirt themselves, or is it the shirt or the printing?

00:18:59 ◼   ► I always get it wrong.

00:19:00 ◼   ► - The printing, and it's not, we have the whole range up.

00:19:02 ◼   ► So the on-demand, you're blowing this one, let me help you.

00:19:05 ◼   ► The on-demand products that we have available

00:19:07 ◼   ► are all of our M1 shirts.

00:19:09 ◼   ► M1, M1 Pro, M1 Max, M1 Ultra.

00:19:13 ◼   ► Not the joke shirt, nothing on the back of any of these.

00:19:16 ◼   ► These are on-demand printed so the printing is not as nice

00:19:19 ◼   ► as it is on the real shirts.

00:19:20 ◼   ► These shirts are also cheaper.

00:19:22 ◼   ► That's why I tell all the people listening to the show,

00:19:24 ◼   ► buy during the sale, those are the good shirts.

00:19:26 ◼   ► They cost more, but they're better.

00:19:28 ◼   ► But if you totally missed it and you want one,

00:19:30 ◼   ► the on-demand printing is more like,

00:19:31 ◼   ► I don't know what the process is,

00:19:32 ◼   ► but it is not like, it's like they lay down

00:19:35 ◼   ► kind of like a lighter color and then do printing

00:19:38 ◼   ► on top of it as opposed to the real shirts

00:19:41 ◼   ► where they do multiple printing passes, I think,

00:19:43 ◼   ► which with colored ink.

00:19:44 ◼   ► So I hope you got one during the sale.

00:19:46 ◼   ► We just have those ones up there for the people

00:19:48 ◼   ► who see the shirt on a YouTube video

00:19:49 ◼   ► so we can have them buy a real shirt

00:19:52 ◼   ► instead of one of the million counterever ones

00:19:53 ◼   ► that's out there, right?

00:19:55 ◼   ► - Anyway, enough navel gazing, let's move right along.

00:19:57 ◼   ► We have-- - Oh, I have some

00:19:58 ◼   ► real-time follow-up before you go into that.

00:20:01 ◼   ► This is killing me, but I'm just looking

00:20:02 ◼   ► at the screen right now.

00:20:03 ◼   ► If I had just done it on the phone,

00:20:04 ◼   ► the phone has a scan QR code option.

00:20:06 ◼   ► - Oh, no! (laughing)

00:20:07 ◼   ► - The Mac doesn't have that.

00:20:10 ◼   ► The Mac says, please enter a setup key,

00:20:12 ◼   ► whatever the hell that is.

00:20:14 ◼   ► I wish the Mac had or drag an image here,

00:20:16 ◼   ► and I would have done that, 'cause I had an image of it,

00:20:18 ◼   ► and I should have just used the phone

00:20:20 ◼   ► and done scan QR code, my bad.

00:20:23 ◼   ► Doesn't change the fact that the website of the school

00:20:25 ◼   ► is totally host and hopefully I'll get that resolved.

00:20:27 ◼   ► But the next time I do this,

00:20:29 ◼   ► after we get everything resolved,

00:20:30 ◼   ► I'll do the right thing.

00:20:32 ◼   ► - I'll tell you what, a quick derail here,

00:20:35 ◼   ► 'cause it's always a quick derail with me.

00:20:38 ◼   ► My tech to-do list is growing. (laughs)

00:20:43 ◼   ► - Oh, I feel the same way, but what's your,

00:20:45 ◼   ► why don't you lay down on the couch

00:20:46 ◼   ► and tell us what's bothering you?

00:20:47 ◼   ► - Oh my God, all right, so, you know, first of all,

00:20:50 ◼   ► yes, I'm back with the ultra fine for this recording

00:20:52 ◼   ► 'cause I happen to be here this week and I hate it

00:20:54 ◼   ► and everything's diagonal and I can't get the monitor

00:20:56 ◼   ► straight and all this stuff.

00:20:57 ◼   ► Anyway, that's a separate thing.

00:21:00 ◼   ► So recently when recording another show that isn't out yet,

00:21:04 ◼   ► so I won't spoil what it is, but it's not out,

00:21:06 ◼   ► but I lost a portion of my audio.

00:21:08 ◼   ► - Uh oh.

00:21:09 ◼   ► - This has not happened to me in years.

00:21:14 ◼   ► I can't remember if I ever lost a recording

00:21:16 ◼   ► or part of a recording before this.

00:21:19 ◼   ► I might not have ever done it.

00:21:21 ◼   ► So this shook me to the bone, and here's what happened.

00:21:25 ◼   ► Listeners may recall a long time ago,

00:21:27 ◼   ► when I had to do MacBook Pros, the 14 and the 16,

00:21:31 ◼   ► and the 14 was always doing time machine backups over WiFi,

00:21:35 ◼   ► 'cause that's how it was backed up,

00:21:37 ◼   ► and I noticed that on a pretty regular basis,

00:21:40 ◼   ► I would open it up from sleep,

00:21:41 ◼   ► after not using it for maybe half a day or a day,

00:21:44 ◼   ► things would be kind of unresponsive.

00:21:46 ◼   ► I would like, you know, right click on something

00:21:48 ◼   ► and nothing would happen, or I'd try to open or close an app

00:21:51 ◼   ► or navigate to a different page in Safari,

00:21:53 ◼   ► and like it would just hang weirdly

00:21:54 ◼   ► or nothing would happen.

00:21:56 ◼   ► Shortly after that, usually it would kernel panic.

00:21:59 ◼   ► And the kernel panic indicated something deep in,

00:22:01 ◼   ► like you know, possible file handling code or something,

00:22:04 ◼   ► and so I eventually realized,

00:22:06 ◼   ► let me try disabling network time machine

00:22:08 ◼   ► and see if that fixes it.

00:22:10 ◼   ► And it did, like that problem has never reoccurred.

00:22:14 ◼   ► But for some reason that problem,

00:22:16 ◼   ► even though I used Time Machine on my desktop laptop,

00:22:19 ◼   ► that problem never occurred on it.

00:22:21 ◼   ► Now I speculated at the time,

00:22:23 ◼   ► maybe it was because it was WiFi,

00:22:25 ◼   ► because the desktop laptop is always

00:22:27 ◼   ► Thunderbolt ethernet connected,

00:22:28 ◼   ► and the laptop laptop is always just on WiFi.

00:22:32 ◼   ► And so I thought maybe it was that,

00:22:33 ◼   ► and so I kind of left it alone.

00:22:35 ◼   ► Well, as we're recording this podcast,

00:22:39 ◼   ► people are talking, I'm occasionally talking,

00:22:42 ◼   ► and I'm occasionally navigating to a page in Safari

00:22:45 ◼   ► to look something up, and I notice that pages in Safari

00:22:48 ◼   ► kind of stopped loading completely.

00:22:50 ◼   ► And at some point I went to go,

00:22:54 ◼   ► I was gonna relaunch Safari.

00:22:56 ◼   ► I was gonna right click on the dock icon,

00:22:57 ◼   ► hit quit, relaunch Safari.

00:22:59 ◼   ► I right click on the icon and the dock beach balls,

00:23:04 ◼   ► like the dock process beach balls,

00:23:06 ◼   ► and I think, oh no, this is not good,

00:23:10 ◼   ► because this is how this problem began before

00:23:13 ◼   ► on the other computer.

00:23:14 ◼   ► I'm in the middle of a recording.

00:23:16 ◼   ► I can't launch any new apps

00:23:18 ◼   ► or close any apps I have running.

00:23:19 ◼   ► And the recording is still going.

00:23:22 ◼   ► Like in the recording app I'm using, it's still going,

00:23:24 ◼   ► so I thought, okay, don't touch anything

00:23:29 ◼   ► and just hope I can get through.

00:23:31 ◼   ► It was, we were most of the way through the shows

00:23:33 ◼   ► where I thought, let me just hope I can get through

00:23:35 ◼   ► the rest of the show.

00:23:36 ◼   ► I won't touch any apps.

00:23:37 ◼   ► I'll just let the recorder go

00:23:38 ◼   ► with Finder Beach Balling in the background,

00:23:40 ◼   ► and I'm just gonna let this go and hope I can make it.

00:23:43 ◼   ► And then every so often, the other person on,

00:23:47 ◼   ► it was Skype, the other person on Skype

00:23:50 ◼   ► would just cut out for a few seconds,

00:23:52 ◼   ► but then they'd come back.

00:23:54 ◼   ► So I thought, okay, that's not good, that's not good,

00:23:56 ◼   ► but we're still good, the recording,

00:23:57 ◼   ► look, it's still going, it's still, you know,

00:23:59 ◼   ► the recording app still says it's going, okay, okay.

00:24:01 ◼   ► Eventually, Skype, the other party just drops out completely.

00:24:06 ◼   ► I mean, I'm hearing nobody, and I thought,

00:24:08 ◼   ► "Okay, well, this I can't recover from.

00:24:11 ◼   ► "Let me just reboot everything."

00:24:12 ◼   ► So I typed a quick message in the Slack,

00:24:14 ◼   ► BRB, computer trouble, came back and I learned,

00:24:18 ◼   ► after I came back, I did finish the show,

00:24:20 ◼   ► I learned afterwards that I was missing

00:24:23 ◼   ► something like 10 minutes of audio in the middle there.

00:24:25 ◼   ► Like basically since the problem had begun,

00:24:28 ◼   ► it stopped recording.

00:24:29 ◼   ► I had no data from that segment.

00:24:31 ◼   ► And this shook me to the core.

00:24:34 ◼   ► Again, I've been podcasting professionally

00:24:36 ◼   ► for a very long time, I have never lost a recording

00:24:39 ◼   ► as far as I can remember.

00:24:40 ◼   ► If I did, it's been a long time ago.

00:24:42 ◼   ► - Oh, you get used to it, don't worry about it.

00:24:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, so to lose 10 minutes or so of audio,

00:24:46 ◼   ► that killed me.

00:24:48 ◼   ► I can't believe I lost that audio.

00:24:50 ◼   ► It drives me crazy, I can't believe that happened.

00:24:54 ◼   ► And so instantly I thought, I have to make a change,

00:24:57 ◼   ► this can never happen again.

00:24:57 ◼   ► So my recording setup for, I don't know,

00:25:01 ◼   ► the last two or three years has just been

00:25:04 ◼   ► the Sound Devices USB Pre 2,

00:25:05 ◼   ► which is my favorite preamp I've ever used

00:25:07 ◼   ► for a microphone USB kind of interface.

00:25:09 ◼   ► I love it.

00:25:10 ◼   ► And in part I love it because there is absolutely

00:25:13 ◼   ► no software.

00:25:14 ◼   ► It is just a simple USB preamp

00:25:18 ◼   ► that is covered in knobs and buttons and LEDs.

00:25:21 ◼   ► There's no software, there's no touchscreen,

00:25:23 ◼   ► there's nothing like that.

00:25:25 ◼   ► It's just covered in knobs and buttons.

00:25:27 ◼   ► And so everything is done on hardware.

00:25:29 ◼   ► And as far as I can tell,

00:25:32 ◼   ► the signal path that goes through

00:25:34 ◼   ► between the microphone and the headphone monitoring output

00:25:39 ◼   ► seems to be 100% analog, which means that when I'm speaking

00:25:44 ◼   ► through the USB Pre, there is zero latency

00:25:48 ◼   ► between the voice that's going into the microphone

00:25:51 ◼   ► and the voice I'm hearing in the headphones.

00:25:53 ◼   ► No latency whatsoever.

00:25:54 ◼   ► And that is something that is only possible

00:25:57 ◼   ► when the microphone is connected via analog

00:26:01 ◼   ► to the headphone output in some fashion.

00:26:03 ◼   ► - It's not zero, but we know what you mean.

00:26:05 ◼   ► - Yes, it's not going through an analog to digital converter

00:26:09 ◼   ► being processed somehow, being routed anywhere,

00:26:11 ◼   ► and then being spit back out.

00:26:12 ◼   ► There's nothing like that happening on that signal path.

00:26:16 ◼   ► And this is the way almost every low end to mid range

00:26:20 ◼   ► USB XLR interface works.

00:26:23 ◼   ► They almost all work this way.

00:26:24 ◼   ► Anything that has a headphone output or a monitoring output,

00:26:26 ◼   ► usually they work this way until you get into

00:26:28 ◼   ► the more advanced ones that have,

00:26:30 ◼   ► usually they have multiple, more than two inputs

00:26:33 ◼   ► sometimes they have built in mixing capabilities,

00:26:35 ◼   ► things like the sound devices MixPre series,

00:26:37 ◼   ► the Zoom F6, things like this.

00:26:40 ◼   ► These are mixers that usually have digital routing,

00:26:42 ◼   ► so you can change what signals contribute

00:26:45 ◼   ► to the headphone mix and stuff like that.

00:26:46 ◼   ► And so all of that is always,

00:26:48 ◼   ► at least as far as I can tell,

00:26:49 ◼   ► it seems to be always done now in the digital domain.

00:26:52 ◼   ► So you first convert the signal to digital,

00:26:54 ◼   ► route it, process it, whatever you wanna do,

00:26:55 ◼   ► then you output it to analog,

00:26:56 ◼   ► and that introduces usually on the order

00:26:59 ◼   ► of a few milliseconds of latency.

00:27:00 ◼   ► And the way this manifests itself to me is

00:27:04 ◼   ► I sound a little bit worse to myself in my headphones.

00:27:09 ◼   ► It's not a huge difference, but I notice it.

00:27:12 ◼   ► And I know it's related to latency.

00:27:13 ◼   ► Everyone on Twitter is like,

00:27:14 ◼   ► "You must not be hearing something right.

00:27:16 ◼   ► "Maybe it's a face thing."

00:27:17 ◼   ► Everyone's of course telling me that the problem I'm having

00:27:20 ◼   ► is not really the problem I'm having.

00:27:21 ◼   ► And I'm telling you it is, and the way I can tell

00:27:23 ◼   ► is because when you change the sample rate of the interface,

00:27:26 ◼   ► it decreases the latency and it makes the problem less bad.

00:27:28 ◼   ► So normally I record everything at 44.1 kilohertz,

00:27:32 ◼   ► but if you change the sample rate of the interface

00:27:35 ◼   ► from 44.1 all the way up to like 192 kilohertz,

00:27:39 ◼   ► then it's almost real time.

00:27:40 ◼   ► Like that becomes the point where I can't really hear

00:27:43 ◼   ► much of a difference.

00:27:44 ◼   ► But at 44.1 I very much can.

00:27:47 ◼   ► And so everyone keeps telling me I can't hear it,

00:27:49 ◼   ► I assure you I measured the mix pre line,

00:27:53 ◼   ► it has about 3.4, I think,

00:27:55 ◼   ► three point something milliseconds of latency

00:27:56 ◼   ► and I absolutely hear the difference,

00:27:58 ◼   ► It's clear as data mean.

00:27:59 ◼   ► And I think, I'm a professional podcaster.

00:28:01 ◼   ► I should sound in my ears as good as I possibly can

00:28:04 ◼   ► to myself because this is what I do.

00:28:06 ◼   ► I deserve to have myself be happy and sound good in my ears.

00:28:09 ◼   ► Okay, so.

00:28:11 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:28:12 ◼   ► But the problem is that almost anything

00:28:14 ◼   ► that has built in recording,

00:28:16 ◼   ► to like, almost any interface that records to an SD card

00:28:19 ◼   ► goes through that analog to digital cycle before the output

00:28:24 ◼   ► 'cause they almost all have some kind of mixing features

00:28:26 ◼   ► or something like that.

00:28:27 ◼   ► And so I don't think there are any that I can really

00:28:31 ◼   ► replace this with that have that.

00:28:33 ◼   ► And furthermore, I love the USB Pre 2 for lots of reasons,

00:28:37 ◼   ► including the fact that it has analog limiters.

00:28:40 ◼   ► And this is again, something that almost no modern

00:28:43 ◼   ► interfaces offer, analog limiters.

00:28:45 ◼   ► So that way I can't clip and it doesn't sound bad

00:28:47 ◼   ► like some other methods do and there's no latency

00:28:50 ◼   ► like digital limiters introduce.

00:28:51 ◼   ► So all this is to say I wanna keep my USB Pre 2.

00:28:54 ◼   ► So I have this huge, ridiculous setup now.

00:28:58 ◼   ► Part of it is still coming from Amazon,

00:28:59 ◼   ► part of it is in Process Now,

00:29:01 ◼   ► where I bought a little Zoom F3,

00:29:03 ◼   ► which is this little tiny, newly released Zoom recorder

00:29:07 ◼   ► that right now I'm going through it at 192.

00:29:11 ◼   ► Once I get all my wires from Amazon,

00:29:13 ◼   ► I'll be able to actually not listen through it

00:29:16 ◼   ► and just have direct output from the USB pre-2.

00:29:18 ◼   ► Anyway, so I had this whole process going.

00:29:22 ◼   ► What I should probably do is switch to the MixPre

00:29:25 ◼   ► and just suck it up and maybe run it at 192,

00:29:27 ◼   ► but that's its own can of worms.

00:29:31 ◼   ► So I don't really wanna deal with that.

00:29:32 ◼   ► And the great thing about this setup,

00:29:33 ◼   ► having it totally separate,

00:29:33 ◼   ► is that even if the computer reboots,

00:29:36 ◼   ► even if the USB connection gets flaky,

00:29:38 ◼   ► this has nothing to do with USB.

00:29:39 ◼   ► Right now it's running on batteries.

00:29:41 ◼   ► It's totally separate.

00:29:42 ◼   ► So anyway, happy with that.

00:29:43 ◼   ► So moving on from that,

00:29:44 ◼   ► that's problem number one that I'm dealing with.

00:29:46 ◼   ► So my computer now did that.

00:29:48 ◼   ► By the way, to try to figure out what the heck that was,

00:29:53 ◼   ► first, the next day, I'm using my computer

00:29:55 ◼   ► and it just keeps happening.

00:29:57 ◼   ► So I'm using my computer regularly,

00:29:58 ◼   ► not recording a podcast, not running Skype,

00:30:00 ◼   ► doing other things on my computer.

00:30:01 ◼   ► And the problem recurs where all of a sudden

00:30:03 ◼   ► I can't click on apps, can't close apps,

00:30:05 ◼   ► then I eventually have to reboot.

00:30:07 ◼   ► And I try, all right, let me switch over

00:30:10 ◼   ► and stop using the Synology for Time Machine.

00:30:12 ◼   ► Let me change over to, I have a little external SSD,

00:30:15 ◼   ► a USB SSD, I'll try that.

00:30:18 ◼   ► That way it's not network time machine at all.

00:30:20 ◼   ► So I turn off the network time machine,

00:30:22 ◼   ► I connect the USB thing, format it,

00:30:24 ◼   ► you know, clear, start new, go.

00:30:26 ◼   ► And within a half hour it happens again, even with that.

00:30:30 ◼   ► So now I'm thinking, is it not time machine,

00:30:34 ◼   ► or is it just any time machine?

00:30:36 ◼   ► Turn off time machine, problem hasn't happened since.

00:30:39 ◼   ► So the problem happened, I believe,

00:30:41 ◼   ► four times in eight hours,

00:30:43 ◼   ► and then zero times after turning off time machine.

00:30:47 ◼   ► So I think it was probably Time Machine,

00:30:48 ◼   ► but what the heck is that?

00:30:50 ◼   ► And now I don't have Time Machine.

00:30:51 ◼   ► And like that's, so that's problem number one.

00:30:53 ◼   ► - When I see errors like the one you're describing,

00:30:55 ◼   ► maybe it's just me,

00:30:57 ◼   ► but I always think my file system is host.

00:31:00 ◼   ► - Thank you.

00:31:01 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:31:02 ◼   ► - That, because like, and you was like,

00:31:03 ◼   ► well, why would that manifest with Time Machine?

00:31:05 ◼   ► Time Machine, especially doing a full backup,

00:31:07 ◼   ► has to touch every part of your file system.

00:31:09 ◼   ► And if there's any part, it's like bad disk IO,

00:31:12 ◼   ► bad sectors, corrupt file system things,

00:31:14 ◼   ► if it gets to some point where it's like crawling

00:31:16 ◼   ► over your file system, and it's trying to read a file,

00:31:18 ◼   ► and it wanders into like a blocking I/O call, right?

00:31:22 ◼   ► And that thing just hangs forever

00:31:23 ◼   ► because it's local I/O call, and it's blocking,

00:31:26 ◼   ► and there's no timeout on it.

00:31:28 ◼   ► That's where you get like, you know,

00:31:29 ◼   ► something gets hung up in a beach ball or whatever.

00:31:31 ◼   ► So the first thing I do when I see something like that is,

00:31:35 ◼   ► you know, disk first aid, FSDK, all that whole nine yards,

00:31:38 ◼   ► boot into recovery mode, see if I have a corrupt snapshot

00:31:41 ◼   ► in Time Machine, which happens in APFS a lot,

00:31:45 ◼   ► see if I have any errors, and like,

00:31:46 ◼   ► I always suspect disk I/O, because if disk I/O goes bad,

00:31:50 ◼   ► that manifests in hard hangs from whatever is trying

00:31:54 ◼   ► to do that, and then eventually cascades into terribleness.

00:31:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, like it feels like the disk has just stalled,

00:32:00 ◼   ► or, you know, we're running out of file descriptors,

00:32:03 ◼   ► something like that, some kind of disk-related thing.

00:32:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, that could also be one of them, yeah.

00:32:07 ◼   ► - But what leads me to believe it might be like

00:32:08 ◼   ► a Mac OS bug is that this happened on the 14 inch

00:32:12 ◼   ► months ago, and that was a brand new computer,

00:32:14 ◼   ► These are both brand new MacBook Pros from last fall.

00:32:17 ◼   ► So I think any kind of hardware disk failure,

00:32:20 ◼   ► like bad sectors, I think is unlikely

00:32:21 ◼   ► to have happened both like this.

00:32:23 ◼   ► - Not hardware failure, but disk,

00:32:26 ◼   ► what do you call it, file system structure correction.

00:32:28 ◼   ► - Right, right.

00:32:29 ◼   ► But the other thing is they were both clean installs.

00:32:33 ◼   ► And they're both used very differently.

00:32:35 ◼   ► The small laptop has almost nothing on it

00:32:39 ◼   ► and is only used once every day or two.

00:32:42 ◼   ► And there's very few apps, very little new rights happening.

00:32:46 ◼   ► And these have very, very different usage patterns

00:32:49 ◼   ► and very different conditions.

00:32:50 ◼   ► And that's why I think it's a bug.

00:32:52 ◼   ► I think it's a Mac OS bug or an M1 Macs bug or something.

00:32:55 ◼   ► There's something wrong here.

00:32:57 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:32:58 ◼   ► And maybe I'll try your suggestion

00:32:59 ◼   ► and see if they find anything,

00:33:00 ◼   ► but probably not during the show.

00:33:02 ◼   ► But--

00:33:02 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:33:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, and by the way, if you do find a corrupt snapshot,

00:33:05 ◼   ► you can just delete that snapshot.

00:33:07 ◼   ► I don't think you have any other choices.

00:33:10 ◼   ► In fact, I don't think you can repair a snapshot.

00:33:12 ◼   ► But if you find a bad snapshot, you can use TMUtil to delete that snapshot and then do

00:33:16 ◼   ► another run of disk utility from recovery mode and make sure it gives you a full clean

00:33:20 ◼   ► bill of health.

00:33:21 ◼   ► Because you'll see it checking all the things, you know, check the top level thing of the

00:33:28 ◼   ► device and then check the individual volumes and it'll check all the snapshots.

00:33:31 ◼   ► And once you get a clean bill of health and all those things, then at least you know that's

00:33:33 ◼   ► not the problem.

00:33:34 ◼   ► All right, I'll give that a shot.

00:33:36 ◼   ► So anyway, the other area that has been failing,

00:33:40 ◼   ► the home pods, they're on their last legs.

00:33:44 ◼   ► - Oh no, oh no.

00:33:45 ◼   ► - Now here's the thing though,

00:33:47 ◼   ► I actually, I am slightly optimistic

00:33:49 ◼   ► for a reason that I probably shouldn't be,

00:33:52 ◼   ► but it makes very little sense, but here's the thing.

00:33:55 ◼   ► So my home pods are continually having ridiculous problems.

00:34:00 ◼   ► Like they barely work anymore.

00:34:02 ◼   ► They work, you know, maybe two thirds of the time

00:34:06 ◼   ► I ask them to work.

00:34:07 ◼   ► That's not a good ratio.

00:34:08 ◼   ► And the number of bugs happening,

00:34:10 ◼   ► especially with the stereo pair,

00:34:11 ◼   ► the number of bugs where the stereo pair breaks

00:34:13 ◼   ► or one of them drops out,

00:34:14 ◼   ► or they just become two separate entities for some reason,

00:34:17 ◼   ► or like, it's happening a lot now.

00:34:20 ◼   ► Something is seriously wrong,

00:34:22 ◼   ► and it's very clear that Apple has totally broken

00:34:24 ◼   ► the software on them, or the hardware, or both,

00:34:26 ◼   ► and it's not going to get fixed

00:34:27 ◼   ► in a reasonable way any time soon.

00:34:29 ◼   ► So that being said, when you write an audio app for iOS,

00:34:36 ◼   ► and you pay attention to what your users say

00:34:38 ◼   ► or what you experience on the iOS point release betas,

00:34:44 ◼   ► you can usually predict when Apple's

00:34:46 ◼   ► about to either add a major audio feature

00:34:48 ◼   ► or release new audio hardware, which usually comes

00:34:51 ◼   ► with a new major feature.

00:34:52 ◼   ► So every time Apple has released new AirPods, say,

00:34:57 ◼   ► or something like that, or the HomePod,

00:34:59 ◼   ► they have usually somehow royally messed up audio,

00:35:04 ◼   ► usually in an iOS point release,

00:35:06 ◼   ► like 15.1, 15.2, not like 15.0,

00:35:09 ◼   ► like a regular .X release, audio gets messed up in the betas

00:35:13 ◼   ► usually, shortly before they're about to release

00:35:16 ◼   ► new audio hardware that uses something like that.

00:35:18 ◼   ► And that just happened for the first time in a while

00:35:20 ◼   ► in the 15 point, what are we on, four?

00:35:23 ◼   ► Whatever the recent iOS 15 point, whatever beta is.

00:35:26 ◼   ► they completely and in a major way broke

00:35:30 ◼   ► AirPlay audio for I think two beta builds

00:35:33 ◼   ► and then they fixed it.

00:35:35 ◼   ► And they haven't touched AirPlay audio in a little while

00:35:37 ◼   ► so I'm kind of thinking that we might,

00:35:41 ◼   ► this is again, this is the only thing

00:35:42 ◼   ► I have to support this hypothesis,

00:35:45 ◼   ► but we might be about to see new HomePod hardware.

00:35:47 ◼   ► If that, again, this is just a hunch,

00:35:49 ◼   ► I have nothing to support this,

00:35:50 ◼   ► there is no rumors to this effect

00:35:52 ◼   ► so it's probably wrong.

00:35:53 ◼   ► But I think we're about to maybe see

00:35:55 ◼   ► new HomePod hardware.

00:35:57 ◼   ► And while that would be great,

00:36:00 ◼   ► I don't know if I'm gonna make it.

00:36:01 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:36:02 ◼   ► Like I'm gonna use them every day

00:36:03 ◼   ► and they're breaking so badly.

00:36:04 ◼   ► And so here's, what's probably gonna happen is

00:36:08 ◼   ► I'm gonna get fed up with these

00:36:09 ◼   ► and replace them with something else.

00:36:11 ◼   ► And then that will guarantee new HomePod hardware

00:36:14 ◼   ► will come out shortly after.

00:36:16 ◼   ► - Hey man, my ultra fine says the system works.

00:36:19 ◼   ► - Right.

00:36:20 ◼   ► - Because I bought this ultra fine

00:36:21 ◼   ► and then sure enough we got the studio display

00:36:22 ◼   ► just a few months later.

00:36:23 ◼   ► So you're welcome world.

00:36:24 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:36:25 ◼   ► Yeah, so maybe I will, you know,

00:36:28 ◼   ► conjure new home pods into existence

00:36:30 ◼   ► by replacing mine with something else.

00:36:33 ◼   ► But we'll see.

00:36:35 ◼   ► They're so, they're like,

00:36:37 ◼   ► they're almost ridiculously broken now.

00:36:39 ◼   ► Nothing is working reliably anymore about them.

00:36:41 ◼   ► It's quite sad.

00:36:43 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:36:45 ◼   ► We are brought to you this week by Collide.

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00:38:41 ◼   ► - We had a lot of discussion last episode

00:38:47 ◼   ► about double-clicking for wallets and how we could save

00:38:52 ◼   ► the quickness or make the lock button quicker by disabling

00:38:56 ◼   ► double-clicking, triple-clicking,

00:38:57 ◼   ► things of that nature.

00:38:58 ◼   ► And we were wondering, well, how do you get into Apple Pay

00:39:01 ◼   ► if you can't double-click the side button?

00:39:03 ◼   ► And we didn't have a really good answer

00:39:04 ◼   ► for that at the time.

00:39:05 ◼   ► Well, a few people have written in.

00:39:06 ◼   ► Trevor Kay writes, "For getting into Apple Pay without

00:39:08 ◼   ► the side button double-click, first open the Wallet app,

00:39:11 ◼   ► then select a card, and then double-click the side button."

00:39:14 ◼   ► And then Andrew notes that this method still works even when double-clicking the side button

00:39:19 ◼   ► features disabled globally.

00:39:20 ◼   ► So again, if you're deliberately going into the Wallet app, selecting a card, if at that

00:39:25 ◼   ► point you double-click, it apparently will work.

00:39:29 ◼   ► Additionally, some other people have written in that you can add a Wallet button to Control

00:39:33 ◼   ► Center, which brings up the same double-click side button UI when you're on the lock screen.

00:39:38 ◼   ► And Michael Samuels writes, "Important that tapping the button in Control Center will

00:39:42 ◼   ► the payment sheet only if the phone is locked. If the phone is unlocked, the button will jump to the

00:39:47 ◼   ► Wallet app instead. So that's worth noting. And then finally, I tried this earlier today when I

00:39:53 ◼   ► was in Publix, which is a grocery store in the southeast. If you just hold a completely sleeping

00:40:00 ◼   ► locked phone up next to a payment terminal, it will actually pop up as though you've double

00:40:04 ◼   ► clicked, which I had no idea, and a few people have written in about that. That was news to me,

00:40:08 ◼   ► so that's kind of cool. So you can do that as well. Obviously, you know, and a lot of people

00:40:11 ◼   ► wrote in and said, "Well, don't you wear an Apple Watch?" Well, yes, but we weren't talking about

00:40:15 ◼   ► the Apple Watch at this point. I almost never Apple Pay with my phone anymore because anytime

00:40:19 ◼   ► I have the occasion to, I have a mask on, and so I would just use the watch, which is much easier,

00:40:25 ◼   ► in my personal opinion. But yeah, those are three different methods to, or a couple different

00:40:29 ◼   ► methods to, do the double-click dance without having it enabled all the time. So still keeping

00:40:34 ◼   ► your very fast lock button. The mask on lock doesn't work pretty well for me, speaking of

00:40:39 ◼   ► of doing face ID with mask.

00:40:40 ◼   ► And I think one of the,

00:40:41 ◼   ► this was working kind of before mask unlock,

00:40:43 ◼   ► but often when I'm brushing my teeth,

00:40:46 ◼   ► I will look at my phone and have to unlock it

00:40:48 ◼   ► while I'm brushing my teeth,

00:40:49 ◼   ► which I think is a challenging face ID scenario.

00:40:51 ◼   ► 'Cause at the very least it's a toothbrush going down

00:40:52 ◼   ► in my mouth and also my hand is kind of

00:40:54 ◼   ► in front of whatever.

00:40:55 ◼   ► And I have pretty good success unlocking my phone

00:40:57 ◼   ► while brushing my teeth.

00:40:58 ◼   ► I think I had pretty good success doing that

00:41:00 ◼   ► before mask unlock, but I wonder if it helped a little bit.

00:41:03 ◼   ► But anyway, mask unlock has been working pretty well for me

00:41:06 ◼   ► and I don't wear an Apple watch,

00:41:07 ◼   ► so I can't do Apple Pay with Apple Watch.

00:41:09 ◼   ► - What did people do while we brushed our teeth

00:41:12 ◼   ► before smartphones?

00:41:14 ◼   ► - You walk around.

00:41:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's what I did.

00:41:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, but then doesn't toothpaste,

00:41:17 ◼   ► does a little toothpaste flex,

00:41:18 ◼   ► have the risk of getting in other places

00:41:20 ◼   ► and you don't want to look at your own teeth?

00:41:20 ◼   ► - Not only if you're really bad at brushing your teeth,

00:41:23 ◼   ► or you're five.

00:41:23 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:41:24 ◼   ► - The real question is what did people do

00:41:26 ◼   ► when they were pooping before WiFi?

00:41:27 ◼   ► That's what I wanted.

00:41:28 ◼   ► - You read, I read entire books on the toilet.

00:41:30 ◼   ► - Ah, that's true, that's a good point.

00:41:32 ◼   ► - Palm Pilot, I played Miele Born a lot, and Hearts.

00:41:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, I read books on my PalmPilot.

00:41:37 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:41:39 ◼   ► 160 by 160 pixels, perfect for reading a book.

00:41:43 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:41:44 ◼   ► - I wonder if the smartphone era has actually made people

00:41:47 ◼   ► spend more time brushing their teeth.

00:41:49 ◼   ► It's easy to get to the full two minutes

00:41:51 ◼   ► on the electric toothbrush because you have something to do.

00:41:54 ◼   ► You're moving it around casually,

00:41:56 ◼   ► but I feel like it was much easier

00:41:59 ◼   ► in the pre-smartphone era to rush through it

00:42:03 ◼   ► and accidentally not spend your full two minutes

00:42:05 ◼   ► working with you that you're supposed to.

00:42:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's why walking around is the old standby,

00:42:08 ◼   ► so it always works.

00:42:09 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:42:10 ◼   ► All right, so we got some news about WWDC 2022,

00:42:14 ◼   ► and specifically the event, the in-person event

00:42:17 ◼   ► that's happening at Apple Park.

00:42:18 ◼   ► And so there is a special page on the developer site

00:42:23 ◼   ► with the URL /WWDC22/special-day.

00:42:28 ◼   ► But anyways, on that page it says,

00:42:29 ◼   ► We're hosting a special all day experience at Apple Park on June 6 to kick off WWDC 2022.

00:42:37 ◼   ► Gather with others in the developer community to watch the keynote and State of the Union videos

00:42:42 ◼   ► alongside Apple engineers and experts explore the only developer center and so much more.

00:42:46 ◼   ► We can't wait to connect in person.

00:42:47 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

00:42:48 ◼   ► All new developer center?

00:42:50 ◼   ► What?

00:42:50 ◼   ► Explore it.

00:42:51 ◼   ► Let's explore your explore our desks.

00:42:54 ◼   ► And then one of you, I presume John, put this link in the show notes that I completely missed when it flew

00:42:59 ◼   ► buy, which was apparently this time last year. And this is a link to Mac rumors, and it says

00:43:04 ◼   ► Apple's building developer center at Apple Park campus. And in this, it says that Apple's working

00:43:10 ◼   ► to build a dedicated developer center on its Apple Park campus, Apple fellow Phil Schiller

00:43:13 ◼   ► said today during his testimony in the ongoing Epic vs. Apple trial. Schiller did not provide

00:43:18 ◼   ► additional detail on the developer center and has not been previously announced by Apple. So

00:43:21 ◼   ► little information is available at this time. Again, that was a year ago. So I don't know what

00:43:25 ◼   ► what this is about. We can come back to that in just a moment, but moving right along to the

00:43:29 ◼   ► actual details about this event that's happening in next month. Attending this event is free and

00:43:34 ◼   ► open to members of the Apple Developer Program and Apple Developer Enterprise Program. Imitations

00:43:38 ◼   ► will be allocated through a random selection process and are non-transferable. This sounds

00:43:42 ◼   ► exactly like WWDC actually. Submit your request between May 9th at 9 Pacific to May 11th at 9

00:43:49 ◼   ► Pacific. You'll be notified of your status by May 12th at 6 p.m. Pacific. It requires a negative

00:43:55 ◼   ► COVID-19 test no more than three days before the event. Masks are currently optional. We'll

00:43:59 ◼   ► provide details on the latest requirements to attendees prior to the event. One thing

00:44:03 ◼   ► I would love to know, and I think James Thompson pointed this out, where is this happening?

00:44:08 ◼   ► Is this an indoor thing? Because that would make the very... I'm not going to sign up

00:44:12 ◼   ► regardless, but if I was going, if this is an indoor thing, I don't know about that.

00:44:16 ◼   ► If it's an outdoor thing, I think I can handle that. So what do we think of this event? What

00:44:21 ◼   ► do we think of this developer center thing? What do we think?

00:44:24 ◼   ► I wonder if the developer center is like a trap.

00:44:26 ◼   ► I was like, so everything pulled out of the story for May,

00:44:29 ◼   ► right?

00:44:29 ◼   ► For what?

00:44:30 ◼   ► It's like, oh, it's like a developer's check-in,

00:44:32 ◼   ► but they don't check out.

00:44:33 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:44:33 ◼   ► Like, yes, it's the Developer Re-Education Center.

00:44:37 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:44:39 ◼   ► I like this quote from the macro-mirrors thing

00:44:41 ◼   ► of saying that Schiller talked about it in the trial.

00:44:44 ◼   ► I mean, you know why they bring it up in the trial.

00:44:45 ◼   ► It's like, Apple would be like, what do you mean?

00:44:47 ◼   ► We love developers.

00:44:47 ◼   ► In fact, we're building a developer center right now.

00:44:50 ◼   ► And as the quote said, it's not been previously announced.

00:44:53 ◼   ► So little information is available at this time.

00:44:55 ◼   ► That was May 2021.

00:44:57 ◼   ► Well, I can tell you right now in May 2022,

00:44:59 ◼   ► little information is available at this time.

00:45:01 ◼   ► What the heck is the developer center?

00:45:02 ◼   ► Presumably it's like a bunch of machines and like,

00:45:04 ◼   ► you can go, it's like, imagine like WWDC Labs, right?

00:45:07 ◼   ► But on Apple's campus,

00:45:08 ◼   ► where a place where developers are allowed to go.

00:45:10 ◼   ► So it's no secret Apple stuff there.

00:45:12 ◼   ► You go in there, you bring your laptop and your app,

00:45:15 ◼   ► and there's a bunch of, you know,

00:45:17 ◼   ► Apple engineers that are to help you with your app

00:45:19 ◼   ► or whatever you need help with.

00:45:20 ◼   ► You need help with UI design,

00:45:21 ◼   ► you need help with a particular API,

00:45:22 ◼   ► just like WWDC Labs, except a dedicated little room for it

00:45:26 ◼   ► in Apple Park, cordoned off from everything else.

00:45:29 ◼   ► That's my best guess at what the developer center would be.

00:45:32 ◼   ► But, you know, they didn't say,

00:45:34 ◼   ► it's like, you know, you're gonna be here in person,

00:45:35 ◼   ► we're gonna watch videos, all right, sure, whatever.

00:45:38 ◼   ► We're going to explore the developer center,

00:45:40 ◼   ► I don't know what that means, and so much more.

00:45:43 ◼   ► They can't wait to connect in person,

00:45:45 ◼   ► even if you're not vaccinated and aren't wearing a mask,

00:45:46 ◼   ► which seems ill-advised to me,

00:45:49 ◼   ► especially since this is a lottery,

00:45:51 ◼   ► and honestly, how many people can they let there?

00:45:53 ◼   ► It's not like they're gonna have 10,000 people

00:45:56 ◼   ► at Apple Park, right?

00:45:57 ◼   ► It's gonna be a small number of people.

00:45:59 ◼   ► It seems, I don't know,

00:46:01 ◼   ► I still feel like this entire thing is kind of ill-advised,

00:46:04 ◼   ► but that's what they're choosing to do.

00:46:06 ◼   ► It's a small in-person gathering

00:46:10 ◼   ► of potentially maskless, potentially unvaccinated people

00:46:12 ◼   ► who three days in the past did not test positive.

00:46:16 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:46:19 ◼   ► We'll see, but I find the developer center

00:46:21 ◼   ► somewhat intriguing.

00:46:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's so much that we don't know here.

00:46:26 ◼   ► And I think, you know, we say that,

00:46:28 ◼   ► oh, we got an update from Apple about this whole thing,

00:46:31 ◼   ► but the update really only added new questions.

00:46:35 ◼   ► It's like an episode of Lost.

00:46:36 ◼   ► It's like, all right, well, now we know

00:46:37 ◼   ► a little bit more about it, but now we have

00:46:39 ◼   ► these new questions of what's the developer center,

00:46:41 ◼   ► and why no masks?

00:46:44 ◼   ► This whole thing is baffling to me.

00:46:48 ◼   ► And I do still wonder, as you said, Jon,

00:46:51 ◼   ► they're certainly incurring some degree of COVID risk here

00:46:55 ◼   ► by having this event.

00:46:57 ◼   ► And while it's probably going to be a low risk,

00:47:01 ◼   ► generally speaking, compared to worst scenarios

00:47:04 ◼   ► that could exist and worst seasons and worst places,

00:47:07 ◼   ► it still doesn't really seem like it's worth the risk

00:47:10 ◼   ► to have an event at all right now

00:47:13 ◼   ► if it's gonna be so limited and still bear some risk.

00:47:18 ◼   ► It's like, I feel like either have WWDC or don't, you know?

00:47:22 ◼   ► But I don't know, I could be wrong.

00:47:24 ◼   ► I mean, maybe this is just going to be

00:47:27 ◼   ► the way forward indefinitely for WWDC.

00:47:30 ◼   ► They've had this issue that we've talked about before,

00:47:32 ◼   ► how they made it online only for the last couple years,

00:47:36 ◼   ► and they accidentally made it too good,

00:47:38 ◼   ► and they spoiled us, and now we realize

00:47:41 ◼   ► that actually this is better for most people

00:47:44 ◼   ► most of the time, and it's better for all people

00:47:47 ◼   ► in certain ways, and so maybe this is the new

00:47:50 ◼   ► kind of compromise, of like, okay, well,

00:47:52 ◼   ► we still are going to have some kind of in-person

00:47:55 ◼   ► component for those who want it,

00:47:57 ◼   ► but it's not going to be the full conference

00:47:59 ◼   ► in person the way it used to be.

00:48:01 ◼   ► And so we'll see what that means.

00:48:03 ◼   ► Again, I still have so many questions

00:48:04 ◼   ► about how this actually works in practice,

00:48:07 ◼   ► and what is the developer center even,

00:48:10 ◼   ► what are their plans for that?

00:48:10 ◼   ► I mean, I'm sure that got derailed by COVID,

00:48:12 ◼   ► but what do they plan for that to be?

00:48:16 ◼   ► Who gets access, what does it take to get access,

00:48:18 ◼   ► what do you have access to once you get there,

00:48:21 ◼   ► is it gonna be like labs that are open year round?

00:48:25 ◼   ► That's kind of awesome if that's what it is,

00:48:27 ◼   ► and that's kind of what it sounds like it might be.

00:48:29 ◼   ► So we'll see, there's so much unknown

00:48:32 ◼   ► and Apple keeps dropping like one sentence at a time

00:48:35 ◼   ► of what this thing even is, what this event is,

00:48:39 ◼   ► and it's hilarious that when they drop these sentences

00:48:44 ◼   ► here and there, they act as though we all already know.

00:48:48 ◼   ► - Yeah. - And I'm sure they know

00:48:49 ◼   ► what they're doing, you know, but still,

00:48:50 ◼   ► like it's just kind of funny, like, they're like,

00:48:51 ◼   ► oh yeah, they'll preview the new developer center,

00:48:53 ◼   ► and everyone's like, wait, record scratch, what?

00:48:55 ◼   ► Like, what? (laughs)

00:48:56 ◼   ► - And then you dig up the Mac, the article from MacRumors

00:49:00 ◼   ► from May of last year, yeah, I mean, obviously,

00:49:02 ◼   ► like, doing the PR drip is a common strategy

00:49:05 ◼   ► of releasing a little piece of information at a time,

00:49:06 ◼   ► and also, like, Apple probably doesn't know the details

00:49:09 ◼   ► of exactly what it's doing at this point,

00:49:11 ◼   ► 'cause they always plan the stuff at the last minute.

00:49:12 ◼   ► They probably know more than they're saying,

00:49:14 ◼   ► but it's the combination of those two things.

00:49:16 ◼   ► But yeah, it gets us to talk about it again

00:49:17 ◼   ► 'cause they reeled a little bit more information,

00:49:19 ◼   ► but still my main overriding sense about this thing is

00:49:24 ◼   ► it's weird that they're doing anything in person

00:49:26 ◼   ► at this particular time.

00:49:27 ◼   ► I oppose the strategy of having a limited in-person thing

00:49:30 ◼   ► combined with a mostly on-plane link.

00:49:31 ◼   ► I think that's great.

00:49:33 ◼   ► And especially if they have a developer center

00:49:35 ◼   ► that's always there or more accessible,

00:49:37 ◼   ► that all makes sense too,

00:49:38 ◼   ► but the details of this particular event

00:49:41 ◼   ► at this particular time seems strange to me

00:49:43 ◼   ► and I continue to question who's gonna be super enthusiastic

00:49:46 ◼   ► about going to this, and who's gonna be super enthusiastic

00:49:49 ◼   ► about being the Apple people at this,

00:49:52 ◼   ► you know what I mean?

00:49:52 ◼   ► 'Cause there have to be Apple,

00:49:53 ◼   ► presumably there's other Apple people

00:49:55 ◼   ► at the developer center, unless it is just like

00:49:56 ◼   ► one tour guide walking you through backwards

00:49:58 ◼   ► like Casey at Virginia Tech saying,

00:49:59 ◼   ► "And here's a developer center."

00:50:00 ◼   ► - Nice pull, nice pull.

00:50:02 ◼   ► - Were you actually able to use the developer center?

00:50:05 ◼   ► This is where you would sit and get help,

00:50:07 ◼   ► but anyway, let's continue on.

00:50:08 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:50:10 ◼   ► So let me be serious and then let me be silly for a minute.

00:50:14 ◼   ► I remember when the Apple Watch first came out

00:50:18 ◼   ► that a lot of developers that were potentially

00:50:22 ◼   ► publicly considering writing Apple Watch apps,

00:50:25 ◼   ► they quietly got whisked off to San Francisco

00:50:29 ◼   ► or Cupertino or whatever and were able to bring their code

00:50:33 ◼   ► and run it against not yet released Apple Watches.

00:50:36 ◼   ► I only ever heard this through the grapevine

00:50:38 ◼   ► and I don't know that this is true,

00:50:40 ◼   ► but I'm pretty sure it's true.

00:50:42 ◼   ► - Oh no, it was a public program.

00:50:44 ◼   ► - Oh was it?

00:50:45 ◼   ► Okay, okay, I wasn't sure if it was public.

00:50:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, well there's two stages

00:50:48 ◼   ► to pre-release hardware stuff.

00:50:49 ◼   ► There's like, before it's even announced,

00:50:52 ◼   ► Apple might approach certain developers and say,

00:50:55 ◼   ► "Hey, can you make us a demo for our new hardware

00:50:58 ◼   ► "that we can show off here in the keynote?"

00:50:59 ◼   ► That's a very, very small group that's kept very under wraps

00:51:02 ◼   ► with lots of limitations on how they even see the hardware.

00:51:07 ◼   ► It's usually in big boxes, it's guarded,

00:51:10 ◼   ► It's a whole thing.

00:51:11 ◼   ► Whereas between when something's been announced

00:51:14 ◼   ► to the public and when it's available to the public,

00:51:17 ◼   ► sometimes you get more access.

00:51:18 ◼   ► And in the case of the Apple Watch,

00:51:20 ◼   ► what happened was, they announced it,

00:51:23 ◼   ► I believe it was like a few months

00:51:25 ◼   ► before it was gonna be available,

00:51:27 ◼   ► something like that, right?

00:51:28 ◼   ► And so there was a big gap

00:51:30 ◼   ► between announcement and availability.

00:51:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, there was, there was.

00:51:33 ◼   ► - So during that time, they actually launched a program

00:51:35 ◼   ► for developers to apply to have this pre-release access

00:51:39 ◼   ► so that you could go, it was already announced

00:51:41 ◼   ► and shown to the public, so you didn't have to worry

00:51:43 ◼   ► about breaking the secret of this thing existing.

00:51:45 ◼   ► And if you were accepted into this program,

00:51:48 ◼   ► you would go and, you say they whisked them there,

00:51:51 ◼   ► no, the developers had to pay to whisk themselves there.

00:51:54 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:51:54 ◼   ► - Fair, fair, fair, that's a good point.

00:51:56 ◼   ► - But yeah, so if you were accepted,

00:51:58 ◼   ► you would have one day, you'd be like,

00:52:01 ◼   ► okay, well, you could be here during this one day,

00:52:04 ◼   ► and you'll have access to the hardware

00:52:06 ◼   ► and be able to bring your app already mostly done

00:52:09 ◼   ► from the simulator and you can run it

00:52:12 ◼   ► on the actual hardware and make tweaks for one day

00:52:14 ◼   ► and then see you later.

00:52:16 ◼   ► So that's what was happening.

00:52:17 ◼   ► I don't know if that has happened in any other way

00:52:20 ◼   ► for anything else they've done in recent history.

00:52:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm not sure either, but I'm thinking of that

00:52:25 ◼   ► and I'm wondering if that's one of the uses

00:52:27 ◼   ► of the developer center is to be able

00:52:29 ◼   ► to have a specific place to, well I was gonna say

00:52:33 ◼   ► bring people, but to have people arrive

00:52:35 ◼   ► and let them play with something.

00:52:39 ◼   ► And then it got me thinking,

00:52:40 ◼   ► and this is where I'm getting a little bit silly,

00:52:42 ◼   ► what if this is all in preparation

00:52:44 ◼   ► for the supposedly forthcoming AR glasses?

00:52:47 ◼   ► Like what if this is,

00:52:48 ◼   ► I'm sure it's gonna be used for other things too,

00:52:50 ◼   ► but what if this is in large part to prepare a space,

00:52:53 ◼   ► or prepare the way even you could say,

00:52:56 ◼   ► for developers to come and use AR glasses

00:52:58 ◼   ► and test their presumably simulator

00:53:01 ◼   ► or whatever driven code on actual hardware.

00:53:04 ◼   ► Like I could see a world in which that's what this is about.

00:53:09 ◼   ► - Is this a room full of AR tables?

00:53:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, just empty blank tables.

00:53:14 ◼   ► - Like big places for you to be able to walk around

00:53:16 ◼   ► and not bump into things.

00:53:18 ◼   ► Speaking of this, by the way,

00:53:19 ◼   ► like the latest, I mean, rumors, whatever,

00:53:21 ◼   ► the latest round of rumors I heard was that,

00:53:23 ◼   ► oh, Apple was planning to do the AR stuff at this WWDC,

00:53:26 ◼   ► but it got pushed, but we'll see.

00:53:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, that's been the rumor for every WWDC

00:53:30 ◼   ► for the last three years.

00:53:31 ◼   ► - So far it's been true.

00:53:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:53:34 ◼   ► - No, I remember the last one they had in person.

00:53:36 ◼   ► I remember, I was in the room for that one

00:53:39 ◼   ► with you guys, I believe, and I remember

00:53:41 ◼   ► before the keynote started, they have the screen

00:53:46 ◼   ► showing the little animations or whatever,

00:53:47 ◼   ► and the animations they were showing looked very much

00:53:50 ◼   ► like they would be the style of something

00:53:53 ◼   ► drawn for air glasses.

00:53:54 ◼   ► It was almost like those laser portraits in the '80s,

00:53:56 ◼   ► but forming shapes, you know what I mean?

00:53:59 ◼   ► Like everything was made out of light sabers.

00:54:00 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:54:02 ◼   ► - Like it was that kind of style,

00:54:03 ◼   ► And even, I remember looking at that thinking,

00:54:05 ◼   ► oh my God, are they about to do the AR thing right now?

00:54:08 ◼   ► Because that sure, like that art style sure looks like it.

00:54:12 ◼   ► And it turns out it was just,

00:54:13 ◼   ► that was just the art style for the year.

00:54:15 ◼   ► It meant nothing, it was just what they thought looked cool.

00:54:18 ◼   ► - It was like a virtual boy.

00:54:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:54:20 ◼   ► - Getting ready.

00:54:21 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

00:54:22 ◼   ► Yeah, we'll see what happens.

00:54:23 ◼   ► I mean, I'm enthusiastic about this for other people.

00:54:26 ◼   ► You know, it's one of those things like,

00:54:27 ◼   ► would you hire this person for your team?

00:54:29 ◼   ► No, but I'd hire them for that team over there.

00:54:32 ◼   ► I think this is an interesting way for Apple to dip their toe in the water. Personally, for me,

00:54:37 ◼   ► I am not in love with the idea of getting on an airplane yet, much less, you know,

00:54:42 ◼   ► going to a place where a bunch of people are milling about potentially indoors,

00:54:45 ◼   ► you know, potentially without masks. Like that's not my jam, but if it's your jam, like feel free.

00:54:49 ◼   ► And I'm very, very excited to see pictures, what will people be allowed to share anyway,

00:54:55 ◼   ► pictures and information about how this goes down, but we'll see.

00:55:00 ◼   ► All right, our friend Jason, friend of the show Jason, had something to talk about with regard to

00:55:06 ◼   ► the Apple Studio display and settings. And Jason lamented in Macworld, in his periodic column in

00:55:12 ◼   ► Macworld, that it would be cool if we had settings for the Studio display webcam. Wouldn't that be

00:55:17 ◼   ► interesting? So Jason writes, "We can debate the wisdom of putting center stage on a display,

00:55:22 ◼   ► most likely designed for the desks of nerds, but let's leave that aside." Actually, I would like

00:55:26 ◼   ► I'd like to talk about that briefly.

00:55:27 ◼   ► I stand by, I love center stage,

00:55:29 ◼   ► and I think this is a reasonable application of it.

00:55:31 ◼   ► I think I'm the only one,

00:55:33 ◼   ► or maybe Jason was saying the same thing.

00:55:34 ◼   ► - No, I agree with you.

00:55:35 ◼   ► I think center stage is good here.

00:55:36 ◼   ► It's just they need a camera that is capable

00:55:38 ◼   ► of doing center stage and not also looking like crap.

00:55:41 ◼   ► - Agreed.

00:55:42 ◼   ► So anyway, so back to what Jason wrote.

00:55:43 ◼   ► - By the way, the update to the firmware

00:55:44 ◼   ► still looks like crap, right?

00:55:45 ◼   ► We all are in agreement on that?

00:55:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, some people say it's getting slightly better,

00:55:48 ◼   ► but that's why I put this article in here,

00:55:50 ◼   ► 'cause I think Jason really nailed the heart

00:55:52 ◼   ► of how Apple's traditional ethos

00:55:55 ◼   ► it makes it more difficult for Apple to get out from under this bad hardware that it has chosen to put in its display.

00:56:01 ◼   ► Right, so continuing with what Jason wrote,

00:56:03 ◼   ► "How about the audacity of Apple shipping it without any interface to speak of? And how much better might the camera on the studio display have

00:56:09 ◼   ► been received if it could be tweaked by its users to produce more pleasing images? The studio display users are reporting that

00:56:15 ◼   ► occasionally the studio displays audio speakers or microphones or both get a little choppy." Again, this is me interjecting. That is absolutely factual.

00:56:24 ◼   ► occasionally the speakers will have I don't even know how to describe it, but it they'll have like

00:56:29 ◼   ► Just a few milliseconds where they where there's no audio

00:56:33 ◼   ► It's enough that you notice but not enough that it's extremely jarring and then occasionally and this happened to me today

00:56:39 ◼   ► I was listening to a podcast using overcast on Mac and I don't think this was overcast. I think it was the display

00:56:44 ◼   ► I'll be listening to something and I'll get

00:56:46 ◼   ► And it'll just freeze like that for a while and eventually in what makes me think it was the display is

00:56:53 ◼   ► is eventually it stopped and then when I adjusted the volume just to see if anything was working

00:56:59 ◼   ► because I turned back on the pops when you adjust the volume, the boop boops boops.

00:57:04 ◼   ► Anyways, when I did that, I heard it on my clamshelled MacBook Pro.

00:57:10 ◼   ► So even though the sound settings, last I had touched it, were set to the studio display,

00:57:15 ◼   ► suddenly after the ggggg, the MacBook Pro is what was actually emitting sound.

00:57:20 ◼   ► And then I went back in System Preferences, moved it back to the studio display, and everything

00:57:22 ◼   ► was fine.

00:57:23 ◼   ► Very weird though, so yeah, a little bit of audio problems

00:57:26 ◼   ► are definitely happening from time to time.

00:57:28 ◼   ► Anyway, back to Jason.

00:57:30 ◼   ► The studio displays audio speakers or microphones

00:57:31 ◼   ► or both get a little choppy.

00:57:33 ◼   ► That's a common problem with audio hardware on the Mac,

00:57:34 ◼   ► but it's fixed by the classic tech problem solver.

00:57:37 ◼   ► Turn it off and back on.

00:57:38 ◼   ► Except the studio display does not have a button.

00:57:43 ◼   ► If the audio on the studio display gets weird,

00:57:45 ◼   ► your only option is to crawl under your desk,

00:57:47 ◼   ► pull the plug, and then plug it back in.

00:57:49 ◼   ► All true, all very true.

00:57:51 ◼   ► - See, and that's because, as we noted before,

00:57:53 ◼   ► You can't even pull the power cord out

00:57:55 ◼   ► of the back of your monitor.

00:57:56 ◼   ► You can if you really want to pull really hard,

00:57:58 ◼   ► but that's not supposed to be pulled out.

00:57:59 ◼   ► It's not a regular connector.

00:58:01 ◼   ► It is really well wedged in there

00:58:03 ◼   ► and it's not the type of connector

00:58:05 ◼   ► that they want you connecting and disconnecting.

00:58:06 ◼   ► So even though technically you can yank the cord out,

00:58:09 ◼   ► you really shouldn't.

00:58:10 ◼   ► And so, because it doesn't have a power button,

00:58:12 ◼   ► because why would you ever need a power button, right Apple?

00:58:14 ◼   ► You have to go and crawl under your desk

00:58:16 ◼   ► and find where it's plugged in and unplug it, right?

00:58:18 ◼   ► So these two things like, you know, the typical Apple Ethos,

00:58:20 ◼   ► you don't need a power button

00:58:22 ◼   ► 'cause why would you ever need one?

00:58:23 ◼   ► It's just smart enough to know when to turn on

00:58:24 ◼   ► and smart enough to know when to turn off.

00:58:25 ◼   ► You don't need to worry about it.

00:58:26 ◼   ► That fails you when it turns out,

00:58:29 ◼   ► actually sometimes you do need to turn off

00:58:30 ◼   ► 'cause there are bugs.

00:58:31 ◼   ► And then the total lack of settings, right?

00:58:33 ◼   ► A lot of webcams have,

00:58:35 ◼   ► and you can read the articles to see this,

00:58:36 ◼   ► there have been third-party apps in the past

00:58:37 ◼   ► that have let you tweak the image

00:58:39 ◼   ► of your Apple built-in camera.

00:58:41 ◼   ► And then of course, third-party cameras,

00:58:42 ◼   ► you often come with your own app

00:58:43 ◼   ► where you can tweak the brightness, the contrast,

00:58:45 ◼   ► the exposure, the focal distance,

00:58:47 ◼   ► all sorts of those things that maybe you could fiddle with

00:58:50 ◼   ► to make the image of yourself in center stage

00:58:54 ◼   ► look more pleasing to you.

00:58:55 ◼   ► Like I said in past shows,

00:58:56 ◼   ► a lot of the complaints about the center stage camera,

00:58:58 ◼   ► aside from the low resolution,

00:59:00 ◼   ► is that there is like some over-processing

00:59:02 ◼   ► that really smooths out, presumably,

00:59:03 ◼   ► the noise in your face,

00:59:05 ◼   ► and it's like low contrast and overexposed.

00:59:08 ◼   ► And so the over-processing,

00:59:10 ◼   ► if you could disable the processing or weaken it,

00:59:12 ◼   ► that might help,

00:59:13 ◼   ► but simple things like exposure, right, and contrast,

00:59:16 ◼   ► those are basic settings that a lot of webcams have,

00:59:20 ◼   ► And it could just be that people would be happier

00:59:23 ◼   ► if they could just have two sliders

00:59:25 ◼   ► to mess with those things to make it look more like it does

00:59:28 ◼   ► on the iPad.

00:59:30 ◼   ► Again, nothing's gonna save the hardware

00:59:32 ◼   ► like a lot of people who are frustrated

00:59:33 ◼   ► by the Studio Display are getting third party webcams

00:59:37 ◼   ► or taking like a point and shoot digital camera

00:59:41 ◼   ► or a mirrorless camera or whatever

00:59:42 ◼   ► and those just look fantastically better.

00:59:44 ◼   ► So there's no substitute for cubic inches

00:59:47 ◼   ► but with the existing hardware that's there,

00:59:50 ◼   ► some amount of settings might have actually

00:59:53 ◼   ► saved Apple from this,

00:59:55 ◼   ► because the only alternative people have now

00:59:57 ◼   ► is there's no, as far as I know,

00:59:58 ◼   ► there's no third party apps

00:59:59 ◼   ► that you can mess with this internal camera with.

01:00:01 ◼   ► And people are just waiting around for new, you know,

01:00:04 ◼   ► beta versions of Mac OS

01:00:06 ◼   ► that come with slightly tweaked firmware,

01:00:08 ◼   ► which again, you can't change.

01:00:09 ◼   ► The only setting you have is basically,

01:00:10 ◼   ► should I do center stage or not?

01:00:12 ◼   ► Jason also mentioned if you could select

01:00:15 ◼   ► how big of a crop it takes,

01:00:17 ◼   ► another setting that Apple just doesn't give you,

01:00:19 ◼   ► although Apple changes it from beta to beta,

01:00:21 ◼   ► it's not like they give you a setting of like,

01:00:23 ◼   ► how big do you want the crop to be?

01:00:24 ◼   ► And that could also help you be happier with your camera.

01:00:27 ◼   ► So lack of settings, it's a known thing with Apple.

01:00:30 ◼   ► And when there is a problem,

01:00:32 ◼   ► the lack of settings as we've discussed in the past,

01:00:34 ◼   ► when troubleshooting things really makes it

01:00:35 ◼   ► so the user has no recourse,

01:00:37 ◼   ► except for just to wait around

01:00:38 ◼   ► and hope Apple fixes their problem.

01:00:40 ◼   ► - For what it's worth,

01:00:42 ◼   ► the LG Ultrafine also has no buttons whatsoever,

01:00:45 ◼   ► which is also kind of annoying.

01:00:47 ◼   ► - Honestly, they would just screw them up.

01:00:49 ◼   ► - (laughs) Probably.

01:00:50 ◼   ► - It's better for LG to attempt fewer things

01:00:52 ◼   ► 'cause they obviously can't do even the basics correctly.

01:00:55 ◼   ► - Oh, as quick aside, speaking of screwing up buttons,

01:00:57 ◼   ► did you guys see, I'm not gonna be able to find the website

01:01:00 ◼   ► while we were talking, but I'll put a link in the show notes,

01:01:02 ◼   ► did you see the new, the thing about the mechanical watches?

01:01:07 ◼   ► This was posted in a Slack we're all in.

01:01:09 ◼   ► - I think I still have it open, with my Windows.

01:01:12 ◼   ► I haven't finished going through it,

01:01:13 ◼   ► so it's still in a browser window.

01:01:15 ◼   ► I'll have it for you in a second.

01:01:16 ◼   ► Here you go.

01:01:16 ◼   ► - I got it, I got it.

01:01:17 ◼   ► - Put it in the chat room.

01:01:18 ◼   ► - I'm not gonna try to pronounce this name

01:01:19 ◼   ► 'cause I'm not going to do it any justice.

01:01:21 ◼   ► But this is a website that this person

01:01:26 ◼   ► does some phenomenal live animations of things

01:01:29 ◼   ► and mechanical engineering and discusses

01:01:34 ◼   ► like how things work.

01:01:35 ◼   ► If I recall correctly, the same person did

01:01:37 ◼   ► an absolutely brilliant version

01:01:39 ◼   ► on the internal combustion engine.

01:01:42 ◼   ► This is so cool.

01:01:43 ◼   ► and to see, like I knew a little teeny tiny bit

01:01:47 ◼   ► about how a mechanical watch works,

01:01:49 ◼   ► but this is one of those things

01:01:50 ◼   ► where you literally build a mechanical,

01:01:52 ◼   ► well not literally I shouldn't say,

01:01:54 ◼   ► but you effectively build a mechanical watch

01:01:56 ◼   ► from first principles and from nothing

01:01:58 ◼   ► into a fully functioning watch with a complication,

01:02:01 ◼   ► the whole rigmarole.

01:02:02 ◼   ► Marco, if you haven't read this already,

01:02:03 ◼   ► this is straight up your alley, this is super cool.

01:02:06 ◼   ► But yeah, with regard to the display,

01:02:08 ◼   ► for my personal needs,

01:02:10 ◼   ► the camera doesn't really bother me that much.

01:02:13 ◼   ► of course I wish it was better, but I'm not sitting on Zoom calls all day long. If I was

01:02:18 ◼   ► sitting on Zoom calls all day long, this would really tick me off. Center stage is awesome,

01:02:21 ◼   ► and it works. I tried it with, I think it was with Zoom, and it did work with Zoom. And I, again,

01:02:27 ◼   ► I stand by center stage. I think it's huge on me, and I think Jason also did as well, if memory

01:02:32 ◼   ► serves. But we might be the only ones that, there are dozens of us, we might be the only ones that

01:02:38 ◼   ► are enthusiastic about it. But nevertheless, I still think center stage is a perfectly

01:02:42 ◼   ► reasonable application or it's perfectly reasonable on the studio display and and for my uses i'm not

01:02:49 ◼   ► too bothered by all this but golly if i was sitting on zoom all day every day this would

01:02:53 ◼   ► really really really frustrate me moving on uh we can't go another episode without talking about

01:02:58 ◼   ► elon musk apparently so we had some feedback um i don't want to read this person's name just in case

01:03:04 ◼   ► that would get them in trouble but we had some feedback and it is as false it's a little bit

01:03:09 ◼   ► bit long, but it's fascinating. I'm one of the attorneys suing Elon Musk for his delayed

01:03:13 ◼   ► disclosure of his stake in Twitter. John suggested that it was good that some probably rich shareholder

01:03:17 ◼   ► was taking this on. It's not actually how our system works, generally speaking. Our

01:03:22 ◼   ► firm does plaintiff-side securities litigation because the SEC, the Security and Exchange

01:03:27 ◼   ► Commission, cannot or will not take on so much wrongdoing. The laws in the courts have

01:03:31 ◼   ► left it to the private sector to enforce security laws through private civil lawsuits. The plaintiff

01:03:36 ◼   ► in our case actually sold very few Twitter shares, a lot of money for him but not a lot

01:03:40 ◼   ► of money in the scheme of things. There's a system and the attorneys who will ultimately

01:03:43 ◼   ► lead the case will be the ones to represent the investor who lost the most money and wants

01:03:47 ◼   ► to serve as lead. That may or may not be us. We take all our cases for securities fraud

01:03:52 ◼   ► and other security law violations on contingency and at risk and get paid a percentage of a

01:03:56 ◼   ► recovery if we are successful. This model may not be ideal, but it's the system we have.

01:04:02 ◼   ► class action lawyers are often maligned, and I agree with much of the criticism, millions

01:04:06 ◼   ► of dollars of fees for the lawyers when the injured class members get a coupon in the

01:04:10 ◼   ► mail for 10% off another product from the company that wronged them. Our cases don't

01:04:13 ◼   ► settle for coupons. The class usually gets around 75% of any recovery we ultimately obtain.

01:04:19 ◼   ► The security laws are written in such a way that there aren't any punitive damages, so

01:04:23 ◼   ► recoveries are often not 100%. But I feel great about what I do, both because of the

01:04:29 ◼   ► we are able to get for the classes we represent and for the hopefully deterrent effect we have in the markets.

01:04:33 ◼   ► Unfortunately in Elon's case, I don't think the system can provide much of a deterrent because there's no amount of money that will cause him to

01:04:38 ◼   ► lose sleep.

01:04:39 ◼   ► But that doesn't mean he's above the law and hopefully we'll get a chance to remedy that for those who sold their shares too cheaply

01:04:44 ◼   ► when he was hiding his stake. It's fun to hear my case discussed

01:04:47 ◼   ► —sorry Marco—even for just a few seconds. In a prior life, I used to defend Apple and privacy-related class actions,

01:04:53 ◼   ► so I guess it isn't the first time. I just thought that was all super interesting. So thank you to that anonymous person.

01:04:58 ◼   ► It's interesting that the one he's representing is not some super rich shareholder, but obviously

01:05:05 ◼   ► they're working, they say we don't make money unless we win, and they get, it's not like

01:05:09 ◼   ► class action like you said, but you described it well, a handful of lawyers get millions

01:05:12 ◼   ► of dollars and the class gets some pittance, but it is actually similar because if they

01:05:18 ◼   ► get a percentage, if they're representing someone who had millions and millions of losses,

01:05:23 ◼   ► they're going to get back 75% of their million and that means the lawyers get 25% of that

01:05:28 ◼   ► million back.

01:05:29 ◼   ► So anyway, I guess they don't get anything if they lose.

01:05:32 ◼   ► I mostly agree that it is good that someone's trying to hold him account for doing a thing

01:05:38 ◼   ► that he ostensibly wasn't supposed to do.

01:05:40 ◼   ► It's kind of sad that this is supposed to be against the law and you're not supposed

01:05:45 ◼   ► to do it according to the rules of the SEC that are supposed to govern business in the

01:05:50 ◼   ► United States, but you can just flout those rules and just assume no one's going to come

01:05:55 ◼   ► after you because apparently the SEC can't or won't kind of like how our IRS can't go after

01:06:00 ◼   ► rich people because they don't have enough money to audit them because it's very expensive and

01:06:05 ◼   ► time-consuming to audit rich people because rich people have lots of lawyers and accountants and

01:06:08 ◼   ► everything so the IRS goes ah we can't go after rich people we'll just go after slightly less

01:06:12 ◼   ► rich people who we can afford to pursue which is a totally broken system and in this case it seems

01:06:18 ◼   ► like the SEC is not interested in going after clear violations of their rules and so they leave

01:06:23 ◼   ► it to the private sector quote unquote where lawyers will take it up because if they can

01:06:27 ◼   ► recover some of the money that people say that they lost because you know again he was

01:06:32 ◼   ► hiding his stake in Twitter and had people known that he was buying up all those shares

01:06:36 ◼   ► they would have acted differently but they didn't so they ended up losing money on stock.

01:06:40 ◼   ► Seems like it's a difficult thing to prove or at least the very least a difficult thing

01:06:44 ◼   ► to obviously you can't you can't even get all your money back you can get some percentage

01:06:47 ◼   ► Jeremy money back but some percentage is better than zero so we can just like if

01:06:52 ◼   ► this succeeds it will be added to the list of sort of slap on the wrist things

01:06:56 ◼   ► that Elon has run afoul of so when someone says Elon Musk has never done

01:06:59 ◼   ► anything wrong you can say well he has he hasn't done anything wrong that has

01:07:02 ◼   ► caused them to as in the words of this you know feedback lose sleep like

01:07:07 ◼   ► nothing has actually hurt him because he's when you're very wealthy it's very

01:07:10 ◼   ► difficult to have anything that hurts you but has he ever done anything wrong

01:07:12 ◼   ► and you know provably wrong like where everyone agrees he did a wrong thing and

01:07:17 ◼   ► then he got either convicted or sued and lost or whatever. Yeah, sure, it happens all the

01:07:21 ◼   ► time. I mean, we'll see what happens with, for example, all the discrimination lawsuits

01:07:24 ◼   ► in the Tesla factories or whatever, and add that to the column of things that probably

01:07:29 ◼   ► don't make a difference in the grand scheme of things to Elon Musk personally, but never

01:07:34 ◼   ► let it be said that he has never done anything wrong and is the blameless angel that some

01:07:38 ◼   ► of our listeners may believe he is.

01:07:41 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:07:42 ◼   ► - All right, I wanted to channel Upstream

01:07:44 ◼   ► and do a couple of quick things,

01:07:46 ◼   ► cover a couple of quick things

01:07:47 ◼   ► that I thought were super interesting.

01:07:49 ◼   ► Over the last couple of weeks,

01:07:50 ◼   ► there's been rumors that Sunday Ticket

01:07:53 ◼   ► might be coming to Apple TV+.

01:07:56 ◼   ► Marco, could you describe to me

01:07:57 ◼   ► what Sunday Ticket is, please?

01:07:58 ◼   ► - Yes, you are going for a drive on the weekend,

01:08:03 ◼   ► and you go a little bit too fast,

01:08:06 ◼   ► and an officer of law prevents you from going further

01:08:11 ◼   ► and gives you a piece of paper that makes you pay money.

01:08:14 ◼   ► - I'm kind of annoyed at how good an answer that was.

01:08:16 ◼   ► That is not at all close to what it actually means,

01:08:18 ◼   ► but that was an annoyingly good answer.

01:08:20 ◼   ► Well done, sir.

01:08:21 ◼   ► So Sunday Ticket is a thing for American football.

01:08:25 ◼   ► It used to be for years, and as it stands still is,

01:08:28 ◼   ► for years and years and years and years,

01:08:30 ◼   ► the only way you could get access to, with exceptions,

01:08:33 ◼   ► NFL football game was to pay an obscene amount of money to a particular cable

01:08:38 ◼   ► provider and it's actually not cable it's satellite provider so dish network

01:08:43 ◼   ► which has had other names in the past had a exclusive deal with the NFL such

01:08:49 ◼   ► that in order to get Sunday ticket and again this is the thing that lets you

01:08:52 ◼   ► watch whatever games you want with exceptions any would no matter where

01:08:55 ◼   ► they are and and it had some other features to like a channel that showed

01:08:59 ◼   ► only the super exciting plays in football because as much as I do love

01:09:02 ◼   ► football let's be honest it's kind of boring I'm sorry it's direct TV not dish

01:09:06 ◼   ► thank you CMF so many people this is gonna be fantastic I can't like I love

01:09:12 ◼   ► football even though I shouldn't but nevertheless frankly it's just just a

01:09:17 ◼   ► quick aside I don't know what you're talking about for the most part but just

01:09:19 ◼   ► a quick aside you mentioned like yeah it lets you watch like some of the games

01:09:22 ◼   ► well most of the games well you know the feeling that the feeling I get and maybe

01:09:27 ◼   ► you know I could be wrong I don't know anything about sports I'm probably

01:09:30 ◼   ► wrong but it seems like the leagues really hate the fans like that's factual

01:09:37 ◼   ► they absolutely hate you all the crap they make you go through to have subpar

01:09:44 ◼   ► experiences and so many limits and I know that I know why I know you know

01:09:49 ◼   ► it's because of you know basically large money deals between large companies and

01:09:53 ◼   ► they don't hate the fans they just love money right it seems like they hate you

01:09:58 ◼   ► so, so much.

01:10:00 ◼   ► Like, I'm just, again, maybe it's just me

01:10:03 ◼   ► and my lack of a traditional father growing up

01:10:06 ◼   ► and that's why I'm not into sports at all,

01:10:08 ◼   ► but I don't understand why people would

01:10:11 ◼   ► care so much to get through all this crap.

01:10:14 ◼   ► Meanwhile, I guess, I mean, I'm buying Apple products

01:10:16 ◼   ► and putting up all their software bugs and everything,

01:10:18 ◼   ► so maybe a bad example.

01:10:20 ◼   ► - Just think of how much you went through back in the day

01:10:22 ◼   ► to watch the QuickTime 4 streaming video from WWDC keynote.

01:10:27 ◼   ► you would have gone through a lot to do that and people are willing to do exactly that

01:10:30 ◼   ► much. Think of our friend that we know who has a sling box in the Midwest to view sporting

01:10:37 ◼   ► events on the other side of the world. We would totally do that if that's what we needed

01:10:41 ◼   ► to do to be able to see WWDC keynote live. So I don't think we have any sort of high

01:10:45 ◼   ► ground to stand on here.

01:10:47 ◼   ► I suppose that's true.

01:10:48 ◼   ► And by the way, it's not a sling box. It's prior sponsor channels, which is excellent.

01:10:51 ◼   ► But anyways, I take your point, Marco, and it's exactly what Jon said. It's not necessarily

01:10:55 ◼   ► that they hate the fans, although in some cases I think that's kind of true, but it's

01:10:59 ◼   ► more that they want money. Money, money, money, money, money more than anything else in the

01:11:03 ◼   ► world and they make these ridiculous deals with anyone who gets near them about, "Oh,

01:11:07 ◼   ► well we can show this game in these areas in these markets, but not that market and

01:11:12 ◼   ► not when it's too close to home," and so on and so forth. It's a mess.

01:11:15 ◼   ► Yeah, they want to sell exclusive rights because you make money by saying, "We will sell you

01:11:20 ◼   ► this, and it's valuable because you will be the exclusive rights holder to air this type

01:11:24 ◼   ► of game for this team in this area or whatever.

01:11:27 ◼   ► And the exclusivity makes it valuable.

01:11:29 ◼   ► And the exclusivity means now all of a sudden there's a bunch of rules about what you can

01:11:33 ◼   ► show on the blanket streaming service or in their app or whatever.

01:11:37 ◼   ► It's like, well, we have this.

01:11:38 ◼   ► It's just, it's how they make money.

01:11:41 ◼   ► And sometimes it's a huge amount of money and sometimes these are weird legacy deals

01:11:44 ◼   ► and they'll slowly fade out.

01:11:46 ◼   ► You know, listen to someone talking to a sporting podcast about how the age of streaming is

01:11:50 ◼   ► is changing the landscape of local television contracts

01:11:53 ◼   ► and blackouts and a lot of this stuff,

01:11:55 ◼   ► but stuff like that changes slowly.

01:11:57 ◼   ► And in the end, there is value inherent

01:12:00 ◼   ► in the sporting events because people want to see them.

01:12:03 ◼   ► It's just a question of who is going to,

01:12:06 ◼   ► how much money that value is going to make and for whom.

01:12:09 ◼   ► And so I think the total amount of money that's gonna make

01:12:11 ◼   ► is probably gonna stay the same,

01:12:12 ◼   ► but that money is gonna move around.

01:12:13 ◼   ► I'm hoping, I bet sports fans are hoping that by the end,

01:12:16 ◼   ► there is a simpler way as a fan

01:12:19 ◼   ► to give the amount of money required

01:12:21 ◼   ► for you to see the things you wanna see.

01:12:23 ◼   ► Right now it seems anything but simple

01:12:24 ◼   ► because we're seeing like we're in this in-between period

01:12:26 ◼   ► of cable and streaming services and over-the-air live TV

01:12:31 ◼   ► all in the mix and I don't know how people even keep it

01:12:34 ◼   ► straight of how they have to watch a thing.

01:12:36 ◼   ► But then again, it's like that for streaming TV.

01:12:39 ◼   ► That's why things like Just Watch exists,

01:12:41 ◼   ► the Just Watch app and whatever it is, justwatch.com.

01:12:44 ◼   ► It's literally the second place I go.

01:12:46 ◼   ► First place is what am I gonna watch?

01:12:47 ◼   ► Second place is, how do I watch that?

01:12:49 ◼   ► And I just go to Just Watch and say,

01:12:51 ◼   ► "Just watch, please tell me how I can watch this."

01:12:53 ◼   ► And then it tells me of the umpteen services

01:12:55 ◼   ► I have to subscribe to,

01:12:55 ◼   ► here are the different ways you can watch it.

01:12:58 ◼   ► That's not an app I needed when I was a kid

01:13:00 ◼   ► and I had 13 channels.

01:13:01 ◼   ► (both laughing)

01:13:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's so true.

01:13:04 ◼   ► And this is all relevant because, you know,

01:13:08 ◼   ► the NFL wouldn't sell you,

01:13:10 ◼   ► the NFL had a streaming product years and years and years ago

01:13:13 ◼   ► before that was super duper popular.

01:13:15 ◼   ► The NFL had a streaming product

01:13:16 ◼   ► and I'm sure like the baseball people say,

01:13:18 ◼   ► "Oh, baseball was for," it doesn't matter.

01:13:19 ◼   ► But the point is, years ago, it had a streaming product,

01:13:21 ◼   ► but you could only subscribe to it if you were not American.

01:13:24 ◼   ► And if you entered American contact information

01:13:27 ◼   ► or came to the NFL website from America,

01:13:29 ◼   ► they would say, "Kindly pound sand and pay DirecTV."

01:13:32 ◼   ► So a friend of the show, Lex Friedman, many moons ago,

01:13:36 ◼   ► and this website is now gone from the internet,

01:13:38 ◼   ► but many moons ago, he put up a post that said,

01:13:39 ◼   ► "Hey, you can pay a company to give you a DNS server

01:13:43 ◼   ► "that's way off in Europe."

01:13:45 ◼   ► And that was all you needed in order to get the NFL

01:13:47 ◼   ► to serve you the European page.

01:13:49 ◼   ► And then you could pay the NFL like 150 bucks

01:13:51 ◼   ► to get Sunday Ticket via streaming,

01:13:53 ◼   ► but you had to masquerade as a European to do it.

01:13:56 ◼   ► And it was a total mess.

01:13:57 ◼   ► Well anyways, all of this to say,

01:13:59 ◼   ► yes, I totally understand Mark.

01:14:01 ◼   ► This seems bananas to you and you're not really wrong.

01:14:04 ◼   ► But Sunday Ticket may be coming to Apple TV+,

01:14:07 ◼   ► which would be wild and I think a huge deal.

01:14:11 ◼   ► Because a lot of Americans, myself included,

01:14:13 ◼   ► although I mostly don't pay attention to the NFL anymore,

01:14:16 ◼   ► a lot of Americans really love American football and the NFL

01:14:19 ◼   ► and for Sunday Ticket to be available via streaming

01:14:22 ◼   ► would be a big deal.

01:14:24 ◼   ► And maybe it is already on DirecTV and I misunderstand it,

01:14:27 ◼   ► but my understanding is you cannot get Sunday Ticket

01:14:30 ◼   ► without being a DirecTV member.

01:14:31 ◼   ► And yes, I would presume that you wouldn't be able

01:14:33 ◼   ► to get Sunday Ticket in this potential new world

01:14:35 ◼   ► unless you're an Apple TV+ member,

01:14:37 ◼   ► but that is a much easier thing to do

01:14:39 ◼   ► than putting a satellite dish on your friggin' house.

01:14:41 ◼   ► So I just think this is fascinating.

01:14:44 ◼   ► Even though I don't pay attention to the NFL,

01:14:46 ◼   ► I still think it would be super cool

01:14:48 ◼   ► if Sunday Ticket came to Apple TV Plus.

01:14:51 ◼   ► And I know they're doing the Friday Night Baseball games

01:14:53 ◼   ► and they're kinda dipping their toe

01:14:54 ◼   ► in the water of sports stuff.

01:14:55 ◼   ► So I really, really am keeping a keen eye on this

01:14:59 ◼   ► to see where it goes.

01:15:00 ◼   ► And I think it's a fascinating play.

01:15:03 ◼   ► And then additionally, very quickly,

01:15:05 ◼   ► there was rumor or there's been a statement actually.

01:15:08 ◼   ► This is from the Register Citizen,

01:15:10 ◼   ► which is a paper that I don't remember ever hearing about before. But apparently, Apple

01:15:15 ◼   ► TV+ has commissioned a movie on the Danbury Trashers, and you might say, "Well, what in

01:15:19 ◼   ► the hell are the Danbury Trashers?" So the story of me driving a family friend's Ferrari,

01:15:26 ◼   ► the family friend was the owner of the Danbury Trashers minor league hockey team. And this

01:15:32 ◼   ► you may have heard about many, many years ago in the early aughts, because he then made

01:15:36 ◼   ► his then 17 year old son, the general manager of the Danbury Trashers,

01:15:41 ◼   ► Monday League hockey team. And so there was a documentary done about this. It is

01:15:45 ◼   ► on Netflix. It is excellent. It is called "Untold Crime and Penalties" and I will

01:15:50 ◼   ► put that link in the show notes. I would watch it again but I just canceled my

01:15:53 ◼   ► Netflix subscription but that's neither here nor there. But either way,

01:15:59 ◼   ► yeah, so there's a documentary about this. It's like an hour, hour and a half and

01:16:03 ◼   ► it's excellent. And then I talked about all this on analog because, you know,

01:16:06 ◼   ► this guy, Jimmy Galanti, he was in the garbage business,

01:16:09 ◼   ► hence Danbury Trashers, he was very Italian.

01:16:12 ◼   ► - Had a lot of money from the garbage business

01:16:15 ◼   ► and he was an Italian from New Jersey, okay.

01:16:17 ◼   ► - Uh-huh, uh-huh, and he went to jail

01:16:19 ◼   ► for tax evasion for a while.

01:16:20 ◼   ► So I'll let you put the in between together.

01:16:23 ◼   ► But he was always super nice to me.

01:16:25 ◼   ► - He was over the head with it.

01:16:26 ◼   ► - He was always super nice to me

01:16:28 ◼   ► and let me drive a Ferrari once and that was pretty cool.

01:16:30 ◼   ► So anyway, so I just thought this was fascinating

01:16:33 ◼   ► and this is a little bit selfish

01:16:34 ◼   ► but I think it's super interesting and neat.

01:16:36 ◼   ► And apparently one of the stars of, shoot, what is this?

01:16:40 ◼   ► Stranger Things, this gentleman's name is David Harbour,

01:16:43 ◼   ► he's going to play the aforementioned Jimmy Galanti.

01:16:45 ◼   ► So it hits close to home.

01:16:47 ◼   ► It was super weird watching this documentary

01:16:49 ◼   ► and seeing their kitchen and being like,

01:16:51 ◼   ► "Wow, I've stood in that kitchen many times before.

01:16:54 ◼   ► "This is really weird and creepy."

01:16:57 ◼   ► But anyways, I just thought that was fascinating.

01:16:59 ◼   ► - I will say too, while we're on TV for a moment,

01:17:02 ◼   ► In a failed effort to find anything else to watch

01:17:06 ◼   ► for the moment, Tiff and I decided

01:17:08 ◼   ► to just start watching Severance again.

01:17:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, I was just talking to Aaron about this.

01:17:13 ◼   ► - What do you mean again?

01:17:14 ◼   ► I thought you already had started.

01:17:15 ◼   ► Did you start over again?

01:17:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, so we finished the season.

01:17:18 ◼   ► Right now they're between seasons.

01:17:20 ◼   ► - Oh, you're watching it a second time now.

01:17:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, so we're going back and rewatching a season one.

01:17:24 ◼   ► We're only a couple episodes in,

01:17:27 ◼   ► but there is so much to pick up on a second watch through.

01:17:31 ◼   ► So if you enjoyed season one,

01:17:33 ◼   ► and if you don't, what's wrong with you?

01:17:34 ◼   ► But if you enjoyed season one,

01:17:36 ◼   ► I strongly suggest go back and watch it again,

01:17:38 ◼   ► like while it's still fresh in your mind,

01:17:40 ◼   ► and there's so much there

01:17:42 ◼   ► that you will pick up the second time.

01:17:44 ◼   ► So it's pretty cool.

01:17:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, you know, I would recommend that for you as well,

01:17:46 ◼   ► Jon, but I hear that you didn't like "Severance" at all.

01:17:49 ◼   ► - Wait, I haven't heard the episode yet.

01:17:50 ◼   ► Saving it for a long drive tomorrow.

01:17:51 ◼   ► - I am actually watching it a second time,

01:17:54 ◼   ► 'cause I'm watching it with a Wi-Fi.

01:17:55 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:17:56 ◼   ► Yeah, the frustrating thing that annoys everybody

01:17:59 ◼   ► that I will say again, so all you and all the listeners

01:18:02 ◼   ► can also be annoyed is, you know, a lot of the things

01:18:04 ◼   ► that Marco's picking up on the second time

01:18:05 ◼   ► were possible to also pick up the first time.

01:18:08 ◼   ► If you were paying attention.

01:18:11 ◼   ► - Not all of us are as smart and observant as you, John.

01:18:13 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

01:18:14 ◼   ► - That's not about being smart and observant, actually.

01:18:15 ◼   ► What it is, and this is why Marco is ill-equipped

01:18:17 ◼   ► to deal with it, is experience watching similar programs.

01:18:21 ◼   ► Right?

01:18:22 ◼   ► It's basically like, do you know the tropes?

01:18:24 ◼   ► Do you know how things are normally telegraphed?

01:18:25 ◼   ► When you see X, like, I don't wanna spoil anything,

01:18:28 ◼   ► but what they do in the, like, previously on, right?

01:18:33 ◼   ► When they do the previously on?

01:18:34 ◼   ► - Okay, I never watch those because they spoil too much.

01:18:37 ◼   ► - Right, so the reason they do the previously on,

01:18:40 ◼   ► like, I think on episode eight or nine,

01:18:41 ◼   ► they do a previously on that reminds you of something

01:18:43 ◼   ► that was in episode one or two,

01:18:45 ◼   ► because they assume most people have forgotten by now

01:18:48 ◼   ► about episode one or two,

01:18:49 ◼   ► or the thing that they are showing you previously on

01:18:51 ◼   ► wasn't noteworthy to people

01:18:53 ◼   ► because they're not familiar with the tropes,

01:18:54 ◼   ► but if you've seen lots of shows like this,

01:18:56 ◼   ► When it happened in episode one or two, you go,

01:18:59 ◼   ► oh, that probably means that X and Y are gonna happen.

01:19:02 ◼   ► And then when X and Y do happen,

01:19:03 ◼   ► and it's not about being observant or being smart,

01:19:06 ◼   ► it's just like, how many shows like this

01:19:07 ◼   ► have you watched before?

01:19:08 ◼   ► And for Marco, that number is usually zero, right?

01:19:11 ◼   ► Unless he's watching a sitcom, right?

01:19:13 ◼   ► So that's why, it's not a character judgment,

01:19:17 ◼   ► and it's not because Marco wasn't paying attention

01:19:18 ◼   ► and he was on his phone or whatever.

01:19:20 ◼   ► It is just simply like, how many similar shows like this

01:19:22 ◼   ► have you seen before?

01:19:24 ◼   ► I was just talking to Aaron and my parents about this and my dad, or my mom and dad had

01:19:29 ◼   ► just finished Severance for the first time and dad was like, "Man, I gotta watch it again."

01:19:33 ◼   ► I was like, "You know, I was thinking about this too."

01:19:34 ◼   ► And Aaron and me and dad were talking about this.

01:19:36 ◼   ► I feel like I do need to do a rewatch because I really enjoy it.

01:19:39 ◼   ► We don't need to go into this much more.

01:19:41 ◼   ► I really enjoyed it.

01:19:42 ◼   ► I don't know if I enjoyed it quite as much as everyone around me enjoyed it, but I definitely

01:19:45 ◼   ► enjoyed it a lot and I feel like I missed a lot and I need to go through it one more

01:19:50 ◼   ► time.

01:19:51 ◼   ► my favorite kind of rewatch is the kind I'm doing where I get to introduce the show to someone who hasn't seen it.

01:19:56 ◼   ► I haven't watched it and liked it and I could say to my wife,

01:19:59 ◼   ► "I like the show and I think you'll like it too." Which are not always the same thing,

01:20:02 ◼   ► but in this case, I think you'll like it too.

01:20:03 ◼   ► And then to be able to take her through with it and then refuse to answer her questions when you ask me,

01:20:07 ◼   ► because I don't want to spoil anything.

01:20:08 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure, John, that Merlin said that you didn't like it.

01:20:12 ◼   ► That's not what I heard.

01:20:13 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:20:13 ◼   ► All right, let's talk iPhone 14 display panels.

01:20:18 ◼   ► There's been a picture leaked that purports to have the iPhone 14, 14 Pro, 14 Max, and

01:20:24 ◼   ► 14 Pro Max all arrayed.

01:20:27 ◼   ► And it is, well, other than way too many words and way too many names, way too many numbers,

01:20:32 ◼   ► it looks like about what everyone's been saying it's going to look like.

01:20:35 ◼   ► So the iPhone, let me paint your word picture, the iPhone 14 Pro and 14 are, look to be approximately

01:20:40 ◼   ► the same size.

01:20:42 ◼   ► The 14, the non-pro, appears to have the traditional notch, whereas the 14 Pro has, what are we

01:20:48 ◼   ► calling this, the pill in something?

01:20:49 ◼   ► The pill in lozenge, is that right?

01:20:51 ◼   ► The sideways I.

01:20:52 ◼   ► A sideways I is actually a pretty good description.

01:20:54 ◼   ► No, it's not a pill, the hole in...

01:20:56 ◼   ► That's not what people are going to call it, but it looks like a little stylized letter

01:20:58 ◼   ► I on its side.

01:20:59 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:21:00 ◼   ► And then the 14 Max and 14 Pro Max, I think they're the same size, but again, the 14 Max,

01:21:07 ◼   ► the Notch, the 14 Pro Max, the sideways I.

01:21:11 ◼   ► Sideways lowercase I.

01:21:13 ◼   ► And again, this is around the time of year

01:21:16 ◼   ► that we would see fairly accurate leaks.

01:21:18 ◼   ► To my eye, this looks accurate,

01:21:20 ◼   ► but I'm no expert on these sorts of things.

01:21:21 ◼   ► And this is about what we'd expect.

01:21:23 ◼   ► I'm intrigued that the Pro models are the only ones

01:21:27 ◼   ► that go notch and hole or whatever we're calling it,

01:21:29 ◼   ► the side eye. (laughs)

01:21:32 ◼   ► But one way or another, this looks like it,

01:21:35 ◼   ► It smells like it's probably true to me.

01:21:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, all the iPhones always leak.

01:21:39 ◼   ► They leak, everything leaks, it's impossible to keep it.

01:21:41 ◼   ► These are real parts, I'm sure.

01:21:42 ◼   ► We've got everything about it, this is leaked.

01:21:44 ◼   ► We've got the whole, we've got what the case looks like,

01:21:46 ◼   ► we've got what the cameras look like,

01:21:47 ◼   ► we've got some specs on them.

01:21:48 ◼   ► Obviously we don't have the colors,

01:21:50 ◼   ► but we've got probably the names, we don't have the prices.

01:21:52 ◼   ► But anyway, the reason I thought this particular leak

01:21:54 ◼   ► was fun was because these phones,

01:21:57 ◼   ► especially in a year when there's not going to be

01:21:59 ◼   ► a quote unquote redesign, which basically means

01:22:01 ◼   ► they change the sides and the back,

01:22:03 ◼   ► These phones are so sort of defined

01:22:07 ◼   ► by looking at the face of them,

01:22:09 ◼   ► like that this part, this one part,

01:22:11 ◼   ► which is just like the cover glass or whatever,

01:22:14 ◼   ► if you see that, you've seen the whole phone basically,

01:22:16 ◼   ► right, 'cause you know what is it gonna be.

01:22:18 ◼   ► It's gonna be a rectangle that's gonna be that big,

01:22:20 ◼   ► and it's gonna have these features on the screen,

01:22:23 ◼   ► which is kind of what we're interested in terms of like,

01:22:25 ◼   ► is it full screen, how big is the notch, what else is there?

01:22:27 ◼   ► And then there'll be a phone behind that, right?

01:22:29 ◼   ► And what will look like, will look like your current one.

01:22:31 ◼   ► It's got a flat size, it's got a flat back,

01:22:32 ◼   ► it'll come in a bunch of different colors or whatever.

01:22:34 ◼   ► And then obviously what's inside it really counts,

01:22:36 ◼   ► like what processor is this, the specs on the camera.

01:22:38 ◼   ► Of course that also leaks in separate rumors,

01:22:40 ◼   ► but this one little part is such a sort of,

01:22:43 ◼   ► it's like, yep, this is what the next set of phones

01:22:44 ◼   ► are gonna look like.

01:22:45 ◼   ► And the reason I thought this was interesting

01:22:46 ◼   ► is because despite all the rumors of us talking about,

01:22:48 ◼   ► we talked about this on past shows,

01:22:49 ◼   ► like the little hole punched out for the camera

01:22:51 ◼   ► and the slightly longer hole for the Face ID sensors

01:22:54 ◼   ► versus the notch or whatever,

01:22:55 ◼   ► one thing that really stands out when you see

01:22:58 ◼   ► the parts sitting in front of you,

01:23:01 ◼   ► is the thing that a lot of the rumors had mentioned,

01:23:02 ◼   ► but it's more visceral when you see it,

01:23:04 ◼   ► is that the little, we'll put the link in the show notes

01:23:09 ◼   ► so you can see the image, but if you don't know,

01:23:10 ◼   ► it's like a circular cutout and then like a lozenge shape

01:23:14 ◼   ► next to it, as opposed to the notch, right?

01:23:16 ◼   ► Because the circular cutout and the lozenge

01:23:18 ◼   ► are near the top of the display where the notch would be,

01:23:21 ◼   ► but there's screen between them and the top of the phone.

01:23:25 ◼   ► Unlike the notch, there's no screen between the notch

01:23:28 ◼   ► and the top of the phone.

01:23:29 ◼   ► The notch is the top of the phone.

01:23:30 ◼   ► The screen ends, the notch begins, and that's it.

01:23:32 ◼   ► And this thing, if you're going up the middle of the phone,

01:23:34 ◼   ► you hit the lozenge, and then you hit some more screen,

01:23:37 ◼   ► and then you hit the top of the phone.

01:23:39 ◼   ► So, I'm not sure of the exact measurements,

01:23:41 ◼   ► but it looks to me like it's possible

01:23:44 ◼   ► that the little lozenge thing