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495: Five Points for Smell

 

00:00:00 ◼   ► I know I'm going to end up disappointed

00:00:01 ◼   ► by the end of the night, but sitting here now,

00:00:03 ◼   ► where ignorance is lists,

00:00:05 ◼   ► I am so excited for the after show.

00:00:07 ◼   ► - You've been on fire with the list puns recently.

00:00:09 ◼   ► They've been, well I don't know if fire is really--

00:00:11 ◼   ► - Don't encourage him.

00:00:13 ◼   ► - You've been on this mud waterfall.

00:00:16 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:18 ◼   ► - All right, so Rob Sayer writes,

00:00:21 ◼   ► "Casey mentioned the Oracle Android Java case

00:00:24 ◼   ► "in the S3 API conversation."

00:00:26 ◼   ► So to back up a half step, we were talking about

00:00:27 ◼   ► is it okay to copy a developer--another party's API? Is that cool? Is that not cool?" And

00:00:32 ◼   ► I said, "Oh, well, you know, there's a big lawsuit between Oracle and, you know, Android

00:00:36 ◼   ► who had basically copied but re-implemented the Java APIs or at least that's my vague

00:00:40 ◼   ► understanding of it." So anyway, Rob continues, "The Supreme Court said that this was fair

00:00:44 ◼   ► use. I've always found this case funny because Oracle in fact copies the S3 API." So here

00:00:49 ◼   ► it was. Oracle took Google and Android and so on to court saying, "Oh, you copied our

00:00:53 ◼   ► stuff." And then Oracle turned right around and said, "Oh, you know, we're going to copy

00:00:57 ◼   ► the S3 API. That sounds great, thank you.

00:00:59 ◼   ► - I'm sure what Oracle would say is that,

00:01:01 ◼   ► well, APIs are not all the same.

00:01:02 ◼   ► We're talking about a programming interface

00:01:05 ◼   ► or local code in a machine,

00:01:06 ◼   ► and this is a network protocol, HTTP requests

00:01:09 ◼   ► for certain paths and parameters and so on,

00:01:12 ◼   ► and that's totally different.

00:01:14 ◼   ► These days we think of them all as APIs,

00:01:16 ◼   ► but there is a case to be made that

00:01:18 ◼   ► if there was to be some kind of law

00:01:20 ◼   ► coming out of that Java Oracle thing,

00:01:23 ◼   ► it might not apply to network APIs.

00:01:26 ◼   ► - That's a fair point.

00:01:28 ◼   ► And with regard to Marco's tear,

00:01:32 ◼   ► which I thought was justified at the time,

00:01:34 ◼   ► about Apple in the hypothetical Apple car,

00:01:37 ◼   ► they wouldn't wanna put any branding on the tires.

00:01:40 ◼   ► They would want a completely flat tire.

00:01:42 ◼   ► You didn't go so far as to say white walls,

00:01:44 ◼   ► but you never know.

00:01:45 ◼   ► If Johnny is still contracting, it could be.

00:01:48 ◼   ► He loves his white rooms.

00:01:49 ◼   ► - You know what Johnny would do?

00:01:50 ◼   ► All white tires, and just pretend like they don't get dirty.

00:01:53 ◼   ► - Right?

00:01:54 ◼   ► - You know, the same with, there's never a power cord

00:01:56 ◼   ► in their product photography.

00:01:57 ◼   ► Like, just, you know what, we're actually gonna have

00:01:59 ◼   ► this white car driving on this white store front,

00:02:01 ◼   ► you know, this white Apple Store floor as the demo

00:02:04 ◼   ► with white tires and forget what it looks like

00:02:06 ◼   ► in the real world, it'll always look like this.

00:02:08 ◼   ► - Well, I did have a space gray option too.

00:02:10 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:02:12 ◼   ► - If it's all white with white tires,

00:02:13 ◼   ► am I like contractually obligated to buy one?

00:02:17 ◼   ► Is that how this works?

00:02:17 ◼   ► - It would just happen to you.

00:02:18 ◼   ► It just, that's what happens with white cars.

00:02:20 ◼   ► - It would just happen.

00:02:22 ◼   ► Anyway, so with regard to Apple wanting brand free tires,

00:02:25 ◼   ► TK wrote to us to point out an article

00:02:28 ◼   ► about how Ford apparently demanded

00:02:31 ◼   ► that Goodyear remove the Wrangler branding

00:02:33 ◼   ► for tires installed on Broncos,

00:02:35 ◼   ► which I thought was very funny.

00:02:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, although they didn't, as far as I can tell,

00:02:38 ◼   ► they're not removing the word Goodyear,

00:02:40 ◼   ► and when they removed Wrangler,

00:02:43 ◼   ► they only removed it from one side.

00:02:45 ◼   ► It's like, if you're gonna remove Wrangler,

00:02:48 ◼   ► like they only removed it from the outside side,

00:02:49 ◼   ► so it's still on the inside, just seems

00:02:53 ◼   ► kind of half-hearted all around.

00:02:55 ◼   ► - Well, and I'm sure there's probably practical reasons,

00:02:57 ◼   ► like maybe when they stock these tires in the warehouse,

00:03:00 ◼   ► they could more easily see what they are or whatever,

00:03:01 ◼   ► who knows, but yeah, it's kind of funny

00:03:03 ◼   ► that there's this weird fluke that a popular line

00:03:05 ◼   ► of off-road capable Goodyear tires is called the Wrangler,

00:03:09 ◼   ► while also elsewhere in the car business

00:03:12 ◼   ► is a popular vehicle called the Wrangler

00:03:14 ◼   ► by a different company, which is kind of this amazing

00:03:16 ◼   ► failure of trademark law, like these two

00:03:19 ◼   ► should never have been allowed to coexist in the same industry but oh well

00:03:22 ◼   ► tire in a car do I mean you can drive your Bronco while wearing Wrangler jeans

00:03:26 ◼   ► probably yeah that's a whole different industry yeah that's a different

00:03:29 ◼   ► industry I know it's a different tires and an entire car it's fine

00:03:32 ◼   ► well regardless friend of the show Sam a well some aid who you might remember

00:03:37 ◼   ► from a recent episode of upgrade which is very good anyway Sam writes to say

00:03:41 ◼   ► Apple doesn't have to be stubborn about unbranded tires they just have to

00:03:44 ◼   ► specify it and probably pay a premium but any tire maker would build them

00:03:48 ◼   ► whatever they want. Even when they leave the branding on, the tires that are supplied from

00:03:51 ◼   ► the factory are almost always unique to that specific model. OEMs frequently spec unique

00:03:55 ◼   ► compounds or other characteristics to meet their performance requirements for handling,

00:03:58 ◼   ► braking, etc. If you look up tires on, say, Tire Rack, you will often see tires labeled

00:04:03 ◼   ► as OEM or aftermarket. They look identical, but they may have different rubber compounds

00:04:06 ◼   ► or even different internal construction. The aftermarket ones are the generic version.

00:04:10 ◼   ► I had no idea this was the case, so I thought that was fascinating.

00:04:13 ◼   ► Moving on, John, tell me about your TV. Do you have any updates for us, please?

00:04:17 ◼   ► I do have a handful of updates.

00:04:18 ◼   ► So first, on the whole Wi-Fi front,

00:04:21 ◼   ► my television wouldn't connect to Wi-Fi.

00:04:23 ◼   ► We had some ideas from folks out there.

00:04:26 ◼   ► First is from Jeff C. You said--

00:04:28 ◼   ► asked if your date and time is set correctly on the TV.

00:04:31 ◼   ► He says, my Sony TV wouldn't connect to Wi-Fi when

00:04:33 ◼   ► the date and time was incorrect.

00:04:35 ◼   ► That is a common thing, also a common thing

00:04:36 ◼   ► for SSL certificates.

00:04:38 ◼   ► If you're connecting to websites and telling you

00:04:39 ◼   ► the certificates are invalid, make sure your date and time

00:04:42 ◼   ► are set correctly.

00:04:42 ◼   ► Now, most modern devices, especially

00:04:44 ◼   ► ones that connect to the internet,

00:04:46 ◼   ► Connect to some kind of network time service.

00:04:48 ◼   ► You don't have to really do this manually,

00:04:49 ◼   ► like in the old days, and on some very behind the times

00:04:53 ◼   ► electronic devices.

00:04:54 ◼   ► The very first thing you do when you turn it on,

00:04:55 ◼   ► it would ask you to set the date and time,

00:04:56 ◼   ► but these days, if there's an expectation

00:04:58 ◼   ► that it'll have a network connection,

00:04:59 ◼   ► they don't ask you to do that.

00:05:00 ◼   ► So they should be set correctly,

00:05:01 ◼   ► but it's worth looking into the maybe NTP server,

00:05:05 ◼   ► you can't get to it on your network for some reason,

00:05:06 ◼   ► or there's some kind of problem,

00:05:07 ◼   ► or it thinks it's in the wrong time zone or something.

00:05:10 ◼   ► So that's worth checking.

00:05:11 ◼   ► That was not the problem with my television, however.

00:05:13 ◼   ► Justin Winchester says,

00:05:14 ◼   ► "Make sure you have limit IP address tracking turned off for your home wifi or your phone.

00:05:21 ◼   ► Also make sure local access is turned on for the app."

00:05:23 ◼   ► This is so when you do something on the TV and it says "Hey, just launch the YouTube

00:05:26 ◼   ► app and press the button and we'll sign you in."

00:05:30 ◼   ► He says the limit IP address tracking should be turned off on your phone and on your wifi.

00:05:35 ◼   ► I don't think that's the problem.

00:05:37 ◼   ► I double checked it to make sure.

00:05:38 ◼   ► I don't have that turned on, I don't think, on any of my devices.

00:05:43 ◼   ► and also the local access thing for the app.

00:05:46 ◼   ► That's when you launch an app and it prompts you

00:05:48 ◼   ► and it says whatever app wants to be able

00:05:50 ◼   ► to access the local network and you're not sure

00:05:52 ◼   ► what it means, so you just say okay.

00:05:54 ◼   ► I always just say okay too.

00:05:56 ◼   ► So I don't think either one of those were the problem.

00:05:58 ◼   ► Unfortunately, I haven't had an opportunity

00:06:00 ◼   ► to set up another app since I already did all my setup.

00:06:03 ◼   ► So I haven't tested these theories,

00:06:04 ◼   ► but it's two more things for people to check

00:06:06 ◼   ► if you're having problems with this.

00:06:09 ◼   ► None of these helped my, obviously,

00:06:11 ◼   ► get my television on Wi-Fi.

00:06:13 ◼   ► The thing I was thinking of when I was messing with it,

00:06:16 ◼   ► the very obvious first thing to try is,

00:06:18 ◼   ► how about you just unplug the ethernet?

00:06:19 ◼   ► 'Cause maybe it just gets cranky that you have ethernet

00:06:21 ◼   ► and Wi-Fi at the same time and it can't handle it,

00:06:23 ◼   ► it just wants there to be one network connection,

00:06:25 ◼   ► it's not sophisticated enough to handle both of them.

00:06:27 ◼   ► So just unplug the ethernet.

00:06:28 ◼   ► And the reason I didn't do that immediately is,

00:06:30 ◼   ► oh, I gotta crawl behind the TV again,

00:06:31 ◼   ► I gotta pull off that panel, I gotta unplug the cable.

00:06:33 ◼   ► Like just, I thought I could get it to work

00:06:35 ◼   ► and I didn't wanna go crawl behind there.

00:06:37 ◼   ► But eventually I did crawl behind there

00:06:39 ◼   ► 'cause I was behind there for other reasons,

00:06:40 ◼   ► which we'll get to in a minute.

00:06:42 ◼   ► And yeah, if you unplug the ethernet,

00:06:43 ◼   ► it connects to Wi-Fi just fine.

00:06:45 ◼   ► So that's a pretty cruddy limitation

00:06:47 ◼   ► of whatever version of Android, Google TV thing

00:06:51 ◼   ► this is running that it just can't handle,

00:06:53 ◼   ► ethernet and Wi-Fi.

00:06:54 ◼   ► If you have ethernet plugged in,

00:06:55 ◼   ► Wi-Fi will never ever connect.

00:06:57 ◼   ► But as soon as you unplug the internet,

00:06:58 ◼   ► it connects just fine.

00:07:00 ◼   ► And the reason I was interested in that

00:07:01 ◼   ► is something I discovered about my television

00:07:05 ◼   ► that I should have known,

00:07:06 ◼   ► but maybe it didn't concern me.

00:07:09 ◼   ► All right, so there's an app that comes with the TV.

00:07:12 ◼   ► It's called BraviaCore.

00:07:13 ◼   ► Lots of listeners, state DP, wrote in to tell me,

00:07:15 ◼   ► "Hey, I've got a Sony TV too.

00:07:16 ◼   ► "Make sure you don't look,

00:07:17 ◼   ► "don't ignore the BraviaCore app."

00:07:20 ◼   ► It's a terrible name.

00:07:21 ◼   ► Bravia is Sony's like brand name for their televisions.

00:07:24 ◼   ► Technically my television is the Bravia XR,

00:07:26 ◼   ► blah, blah, blah, right?

00:07:28 ◼   ► The BraviaCore app, it's a movie app.

00:07:31 ◼   ► You know, Sony is also a movie studio

00:07:32 ◼   ► and they have a bunch of movies, right?

00:07:34 ◼   ► So you can pay for, download, or stream movies

00:07:37 ◼   ► from the Sony movie collection.

00:07:38 ◼   ► maybe others, I don't know.

00:07:40 ◼   ► But the advantage of the Broadview Core app is one,

00:07:42 ◼   ► when you buy the super expensive TV,

00:07:44 ◼   ► it comes with like 10 credits to get movies.

00:07:47 ◼   ► So hey, free movies.

00:07:48 ◼   ► I think each movie is like one credit or something,

00:07:50 ◼   ► so I can get 10 movies if I want,

00:07:51 ◼   ► as long as there's so many movies.

00:07:53 ◼   ► And two, apparently, Broadview Core movies

00:07:57 ◼   ► let you either stream or download or both movies

00:08:00 ◼   ► in much higher quality than even the iTunes store.

00:08:03 ◼   ► Like that they're 4K, full res, high bit rate,

00:08:07 ◼   ► Maybe not as high as Blu-ray, because Blu-rays are like 60 gigs a movie or whatever it is,

00:08:12 ◼   ► but much higher than you would get on a typical streaming service.

00:08:16 ◼   ► And I'm like, "Okay, that's cool.

00:08:18 ◼   ► I should check that out."

00:08:19 ◼   ► But then I heard from other people and they said, "Oh yeah, I tried to use the Bravia

00:08:22 ◼   ► Core app, but I couldn't play the movies back at the high bit rate because it would stutter.

00:08:28 ◼   ► My network connection wasn't fast enough to keep up."

00:08:30 ◼   ► And I was like, "Well, I won't have that problem.

00:08:31 ◼   ► I'm plugged into Ethernet."

00:08:33 ◼   ► Then some people were saying, "Oh yeah, I'm on Ethernet too, and I also couldn't get my

00:08:36 ◼   ► my Wi-Fi to connect, but by the way,

00:08:38 ◼   ► I was trying to play movies from Broadview Core

00:08:40 ◼   ► and they were stuttering even when I was on Ethernet.

00:08:42 ◼   ► And the reason for that is that the Ethernet

00:08:43 ◼   ► is 100 megabits.

00:08:45 ◼   ► - Oh no.

00:08:46 ◼   ► - I don't know what century this is,

00:08:48 ◼   ► but I mean you would think 100 megabits

00:08:49 ◼   ► is plenty for a movie, 'cause most things

00:08:51 ◼   ► that are on streaming services are like

00:08:53 ◼   ► single digit megabits, like it's heavily compressed video.

00:08:56 ◼   ► You know, through the magic of modern compression

00:08:58 ◼   ► algorithms, you can watch the movie and it doesn't take up,

00:09:01 ◼   ► you know, you don't need huge amounts of bandwidth.

00:09:03 ◼   ► That's why people can get away with it on Wi-Fi,

00:09:04 ◼   ► because even though the theoretical bandwidth

00:09:06 ◼   ► and wifi is very high,

00:09:07 ◼   ► from wherever people's televisions are

00:09:10 ◼   ► to wherever their routers are with interference

00:09:11 ◼   ► from walls and stuff like that,

00:09:13 ◼   ► maybe you're only getting 10, 20 megabits

00:09:15 ◼   ► at your television.

00:09:16 ◼   ► Heck, maybe you're getting nine megabits.

00:09:18 ◼   ► That's still enough to stream most things,

00:09:21 ◼   ► especially if it's not 4K content, right?

00:09:23 ◼   ► So it was 100 megabits.

00:09:25 ◼   ► And apparently 100 megabit ethernet is not enough

00:09:28 ◼   ► to stream some of the bigger, chunkier movies

00:09:31 ◼   ► that are there.

00:09:32 ◼   ► And so the first thing I did was I wanted to check what kind of speeds I'm getting on

00:09:37 ◼   ► Wi-Fi because people are saying, "Oh, don't use Ethernet.

00:09:40 ◼   ► You should use Wi-Fi because you can get higher than 100 megabits on Wi-Fi."

00:09:44 ◼   ► So that's why I unplugged the Ethernet cable, connected to Wi-Fi, and then I had to figure

00:09:47 ◼   ► out how fast the Wi-Fi is.

00:09:49 ◼   ► So I needed to get a speed test application and I had to get it from the Sony app store,

00:09:55 ◼   ► right?

00:09:56 ◼   ► Because I can't do it on my Apple TV or something because that wouldn't be testing the TV's

00:09:58 ◼   ► Ethernet connection.

00:09:59 ◼   ► It would just be testing the Apple TV's Ethernet connection, which by the way, the Apple TV

00:10:02 ◼   ► was 100 megabits for years and years, right?

00:10:04 ◼   ► I hope it's still not, and I'm not entirely sure.

00:10:06 ◼   ► - No, I think the modern ones are,

00:10:08 ◼   ► I think once it went to 4K, I believe,

00:10:10 ◼   ► that's when they upped it.

00:10:11 ◼   ► - Yep, I believe that's when.

00:10:12 ◼   ► - Although I'm not sure there's any content

00:10:14 ◼   ► that I watch on my Apple TV

00:10:16 ◼   ► that exceeds 100 megabits anyway.

00:10:17 ◼   ► But yeah, so I can't, I have to download it

00:10:19 ◼   ► from the Sony App Store.

00:10:20 ◼   ► So I go to the Sony App Store, I search for speed tests,

00:10:22 ◼   ► and there's like, just a, you know,

00:10:25 ◼   ► like the usual suspects lineup

00:10:26 ◼   ► of sketchy-looking applications

00:10:28 ◼   ► that all claim to be speed tests, you know?

00:10:30 ◼   ► None of them are recognizable brands of any kind of thing.

00:10:33 ◼   ► They all just look like generic speed tests,

00:10:35 ◼   ► like, hmm, which one of these is least likely

00:10:37 ◼   ► to destroy my television?

00:10:38 ◼   ► So I downloaded a couple of them.

00:10:40 ◼   ► One of them didn't work at all.

00:10:42 ◼   ► One of them looks a little bit janky,

00:10:44 ◼   ► but one of them did actually run a speed test.

00:10:46 ◼   ► And on my Wi-Fi, from the position of all my routers

00:10:49 ◼   ► and everything, I was getting like, you know,

00:10:52 ◼   ► 70, 80 gigabits, not gigabits, megabits,

00:10:55 ◼   ► 70, 80 megabits per second, which is less than the ethernet.

00:10:58 ◼   ► So I plugged the ethernet bit in and tried that,

00:10:59 ◼   ► And sure enough, it gets like 9900 megabits,

00:11:01 ◼   ► like just like you would expect.

00:11:03 ◼   ► So my wifi in my position, in my television,

00:11:07 ◼   ► where all my routers are in my house

00:11:09 ◼   ► is not faster than 100 megabits.

00:11:11 ◼   ► So what am I supposed to do?

00:11:12 ◼   ► I want faster than 100 megabits into this television

00:11:17 ◼   ► because I don't know, I wanna watch a Broadview Core,

00:11:19 ◼   ► I wanna see the fancy stuff.

00:11:20 ◼   ► Granted, I have a Blu-ray player for all that too,

00:11:22 ◼   ► but I have these 10 free movie credits

00:11:23 ◼   ► and I'd like to see the full quality.

00:11:25 ◼   ► I asked this to Merlin last night on Erectif's recording,

00:11:29 ◼   ► which will come out sometime in the future,

00:11:30 ◼   ► but I'll ask you two, what should I do?

00:11:33 ◼   ► - Can you DFU restore your TV?

00:11:35 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:11:36 ◼   ► - Well, what would that,

00:11:37 ◼   ► like it's 100 megabit ethernet port.

00:11:38 ◼   ► That's never getting any faster, right?

00:11:40 ◼   ► And my wifi is not fast enough given my router location.

00:11:43 ◼   ► So I want to get more than 100 megabits of data

00:11:46 ◼   ► into my television.

00:11:47 ◼   ► - I get you could you put another Eero

00:11:51 ◼   ► connected via ethernet like directly next to the TV?

00:11:53 ◼   ► - I'm trying to think,

00:11:55 ◼   ► is there any way to otherwise pipe in ethernet?

00:11:57 ◼   ► Like I assume, like would a USB 3 Ethernet adapter work?

00:12:02 ◼   ► Probably not, but.

00:12:04 ◼   ► - That's the way, the thing I pursued, all right.

00:12:06 ◼   ► So there are, if you search, you will find plenty

00:12:09 ◼   ► of USB A to Ethernet adapters

00:12:11 ◼   ► that claim gigabit Ethernet speeds.

00:12:14 ◼   ► This television does have the USB A ports on it,

00:12:16 ◼   ► most modern televisions do.

00:12:18 ◼   ► And from other Sony people out there

00:12:20 ◼   ► who have Sony televisions, older Sony televisions,

00:12:23 ◼   ► they said, yeah, I got a USB to Ethernet adapter

00:12:25 ◼   ► and it let me get faster speeds, right?

00:12:27 ◼   ► Unfortunately, since this television is so new,

00:12:29 ◼   ► I had trouble finding people who had this television

00:12:32 ◼   ► and had done it successfully.

00:12:33 ◼   ► So people were like, oh, I've got an A80J or an A90J,

00:12:36 ◼   ► and I did this, and that worked.

00:12:37 ◼   ► And I was like, well, I don't know.

00:12:39 ◼   ► You know, things change.

00:12:40 ◼   ► The OS version is different.

00:12:42 ◼   ► This is a brand new TV.

00:12:43 ◼   ► I'm not sure what will work.

00:12:45 ◼   ► If you look at the USB to ether adapters

00:12:47 ◼   ► that you will see for sale, you know, at Amazon or whatever,

00:12:51 ◼   ► there's tons of them, but there's nothing

00:12:53 ◼   ► to really distinguish them other than the price

00:12:55 ◼   ► and some branding, they all kind of look the same.

00:12:57 ◼   ► But this is not a computer, right?

00:12:59 ◼   ► I don't know, I can't install drivers as far as I know

00:13:02 ◼   ► to make this adapter work, so it's either gonna work

00:13:04 ◼   ► or it's not gonna work.

00:13:06 ◼   ► So I ordered one and I picked the name brand,

00:13:10 ◼   ► I ordered the Anker one, I'm like, I've heard of them,

00:13:12 ◼   ► I have their power adapters or whatever,

00:13:14 ◼   ► this seems like a reasonable quality product.

00:13:18 ◼   ► Let me try it.

00:13:19 ◼   ► TV didn't see it at all.

00:13:20 ◼   ► Plug it in, nothing happens.

00:13:22 ◼   ► It's just totally invisible to television,

00:13:23 ◼   ► There's no way to make it detected as far as I can tell.

00:13:26 ◼   ► It just didn't work at all.

00:13:28 ◼   ► Then the time that it took to ship that,

00:13:30 ◼   ► I had been doing more Google searching.

00:13:32 ◼   ► I found somebody with an actual A95K,

00:13:34 ◼   ► and they said, "I use this specific adapter, and it works."

00:13:37 ◼   ► So I just bought the exact one that they had.

00:13:38 ◼   ► We'll put a link in the show notes.

00:13:39 ◼   ► It is one of those Amazon products with a giant name

00:13:42 ◼   ► that I'm not going to read right now,

00:13:43 ◼   ► but it's from Cable Matters.

00:13:45 ◼   ► It looks exactly the same as the Anker one,

00:13:47 ◼   ► but like a different color, and this one works.

00:13:49 ◼   ► Apparently, the theory is that you have to have

00:13:51 ◼   ► the RTL8153 chipset inside the adapter,

00:13:55 ◼   ► and that, you know, the Google TV OS will recognize,

00:13:59 ◼   ► and yes, you plug it in, it recognizes that it works.

00:14:01 ◼   ► I did a speed test, I wasn't getting any gigabit,

00:14:03 ◼   ► but I was peaking around seven or 800 megabits.

00:14:06 ◼   ► So, pretty good.

00:14:08 ◼   ► And that's much more convenient

00:14:09 ◼   ► than getting a whole other Eero thing

00:14:11 ◼   ► and putting the WiFi two inches away,

00:14:13 ◼   ► and I, you know, especially since all my, like,

00:14:16 ◼   ► top-end Eero 6 Pro or whatever things

00:14:19 ◼   ► are in use in the house.

00:14:21 ◼   ► I would have to either buy another fancy one

00:14:22 ◼   ► to get the maximum WiFi speed,

00:14:24 ◼   ► or use one of my older, lesser ones

00:14:26 ◼   ► that can't even do the most modern WiFi standards.

00:14:29 ◼   ► And I also don't even know what WiFi standards

00:14:31 ◼   ► the television supports.

00:14:33 ◼   ► I don't even know what the most modern one is.

00:14:34 ◼   ► What is the top end one now?

00:14:36 ◼   ► It's not AC anymore. - Oh, I don't even know.

00:14:37 ◼   ► - Six, yeah, they just went to numbers.

00:14:39 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:14:40 ◼   ► Or 6E, I don't know.

00:14:42 ◼   ► Anyway, the USB to Ethernet adapter,

00:14:46 ◼   ► it's a little bit weird and janky,

00:14:47 ◼   ► and you might not think of it, but it worked,

00:14:49 ◼   ► And so now that's how my television is connected.

00:14:51 ◼   ► - Even though that's a stupid thing,

00:14:53 ◼   ► you shouldn't even have to do that,

00:14:54 ◼   ► I'm glad that was the answer.

00:14:55 ◼   ► 'Cause the wifi right next to it thing

00:14:57 ◼   ► just kinda seemed dirty.

00:14:58 ◼   ► It's like when you wanted to record stuff on a cassette

00:15:01 ◼   ► when you were younger before you knew anything

00:15:03 ◼   ► and had anything and it's like,

00:15:04 ◼   ► all right, I can hold my boombox up to the speaker

00:15:07 ◼   ► of another radio and hit record and maybe it'll work.

00:15:10 ◼   ► And it does kind of work, but not well and it seems wrong

00:15:14 ◼   ► and it's not the right way to do it.

00:15:16 ◼   ► So I'm glad you found the correct way

00:15:19 ◼   ► among the limited options that were available to you.

00:15:21 ◼   ► - Well honestly, it's pretty shameful.

00:15:23 ◼   ► If Sony's gonna have the service,

00:15:24 ◼   ► and the selling point is we have super high quality movies,

00:15:26 ◼   ► like what do you think about ethernet porting a TV?

00:15:28 ◼   ► It mostly has to do with, I think,

00:15:30 ◼   ► the fact that even though the panel on the 895K

00:15:33 ◼   ► is this fancy new Samsung Quantum.OLED thing,

00:15:35 ◼   ► the guts of the TV are not substantially different

00:15:39 ◼   ► in terms of the decoding hardware and everything

00:15:41 ◼   ► than they were on last year's model of Sony television.

00:15:43 ◼   ► So that's part of why the limit has the limitations in gaming and stuff that the LG one doesn't sell you just ahead of them

00:15:49 ◼   ► on there so in the computer that is inside the television, so

00:15:53 ◼   ► You know, that's a shame. But seriously, you know for a television this price is no reason

00:15:58 ◼   ► It should have a hundred megabit Ethernet port or at least it should warn you about it. They don't use this

00:16:01 ◼   ► It's bad the fact that the USB port to the rescue. Jeez. What a world

00:16:05 ◼   ► We are sponsored this week by the stack overflow podcast for more than a dozen years

00:16:13 ◼   ► The Stack Overflow podcast has been exploring

00:16:16 ◼   ► what it means to be a developer

00:16:17 ◼   ► and how the art and practice of software programming

00:16:19 ◼   ► is changing our world.

00:16:21 ◼   ► I have personally listened to the Stack Overflow podcast

00:16:24 ◼   ► for most of that time, I think.

00:16:27 ◼   ► This was one of the first podcasts

00:16:28 ◼   ► I ever listened to on a regular basis.

00:16:30 ◼   ► You know, back of, really, they've been doing it

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00:16:33 ◼   ► I remember listening to it on my way

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00:17:15 ◼   ► So the Stack Overflow podcast is your home for all things code.

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00:17:28 ◼   ► So check it out.

00:17:29 ◼   ► I love Stack Overflow.

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00:17:50 ◼   ► - So in terms of the TiVo remote codes,

00:17:56 ◼   ► trying to get my TiVo remote to control the power

00:17:58 ◼   ► and the volume and everything on my television

00:17:59 ◼   ► and first the codes weren't working

00:18:01 ◼   ► and then I swapped the batteries

00:18:02 ◼   ► and then the codes were kind of working

00:18:03 ◼   ► but it was janky, especially for like volume up and down,

00:18:06 ◼   ► you'd hit the all volume up button

00:18:07 ◼   ► and nothing would happen, you'd hit it again

00:18:08 ◼   ► and it would go up three notches.

00:18:09 ◼   ► It was not quite working right.

00:18:12 ◼   ► So I actually did contact TiVo support,

00:18:14 ◼   ► which apparently still exists, and said,

00:18:16 ◼   ► hey, I've got this new TV.

00:18:18 ◼   ► I tried entering remote code.

00:18:19 ◼   ► None of them quite work the way I want them to.

00:18:22 ◼   ► What should I do?

00:18:22 ◼   ► And they replied and pointed me to the article

00:18:24 ◼   ► that I had already seen that many other people pointed me to

00:18:26 ◼   ► was like, oh, here's how you can make the remote scan

00:18:28 ◼   ► through all the codes with this, enter in 0999,

00:18:32 ◼   ► and it will just go through all the codes and press

00:18:34 ◼   ► the channel up button every two seconds

00:18:35 ◼   ► to keep going through the codes.

00:18:37 ◼   ► First of all, that article that tells you to do that,

00:18:39 ◼   ► like I understand what it's saying,

00:18:39 ◼   ► like oh, there's 10,000 codes,

00:18:40 ◼   ► you're not gonna type them all on yourself,

00:18:41 ◼   ► so just let the remote do it for you.

00:18:43 ◼   ► It never said what happens, what should happen.

00:18:46 ◼   ► All it said is every two seconds,

00:18:48 ◼   ► allow at least two seconds between presses

00:18:50 ◼   ► and then press channel up.

00:18:51 ◼   ► First of all, why am I doing that?

00:18:52 ◼   ► Why doesn't it just go through all the codes?

00:18:53 ◼   ► And second of all, what is supposed to happen

00:18:56 ◼   ► during this process, like when it finds the code?

00:18:59 ◼   ► Will it stop when it finds the code?

00:19:00 ◼   ► How does it know when it finds the code?

00:19:02 ◼   ► Should I be watching for something that happens?

00:19:04 ◼   ► Should I be watching for the tower to turn off

00:19:05 ◼   ► and then I should hit a button to say,

00:19:06 ◼   ► hey, you found it.

00:19:07 ◼   ► There's no, in the article,

00:19:09 ◼   ► doesn't tell you what you should do.

00:19:11 ◼   ► So either this doesn't work at all

00:19:13 ◼   ► or I don't understand what I'm supposed to do

00:19:14 ◼   ► 'cause I tried it like three times and nothing happens.

00:19:18 ◼   ► The television just sits there,

00:19:19 ◼   ► showing whatever it's showing.

00:19:21 ◼   ► The remote sits there and nothing ever happens.

00:19:24 ◼   ► So I don't understand it at all.

00:19:26 ◼   ► But anyway, they said that and that wasn't helpful.

00:19:29 ◼   ► And they said, if you have any other problems, contact Sony.

00:19:32 ◼   ► So they passed the buck.

00:19:34 ◼   ► So I don't know what I'm gonna do,

00:19:35 ◼   ► 'cause contacting Sony seems like it will not be fruitful.

00:19:37 ◼   ► At least TiVo replied and had a suggestion,

00:19:41 ◼   ► but not a great support experience,

00:19:45 ◼   ► 'cause I would feel like in the good old days of TiVo,

00:19:47 ◼   ► it would be like, it's their job to know all,

00:19:50 ◼   ► like they put these codes in the UI.

00:19:52 ◼   ► It's part of the TiVo experience.

00:19:53 ◼   ► It's like, don't worry, we'll figure this out for you.

00:19:54 ◼   ► Here, if you have a Sony television, here are the codes.

00:19:56 ◼   ► We figured them all out.

00:19:57 ◼   ► And when there's a new code, we put the new code in the UI.

00:20:00 ◼   ► And this is a brand new TV, and you would think,

00:20:02 ◼   ► oh, we're gonna be on top of this new TV.

00:20:03 ◼   ► we'll have the new codes for our router,

00:20:04 ◼   ► but nope, they just said if it still doesn't work,

00:20:07 ◼   ► this is all we know, if it still doesn't work, contact Sony.

00:20:09 ◼   ► - So, I'm sorry, you said that,

00:20:12 ◼   ► you mashed on the channel up button repeatedly,

00:20:14 ◼   ► which, okay, so far, so good,

00:20:16 ◼   ► channel up is an interesting choice,

00:20:18 ◼   ► but you said there's no way to indicate that it has worked?

00:20:23 ◼   ► Because my expectation is,

00:20:24 ◼   ► like I've done this with remotes before,

00:20:26 ◼   ► in fact, we'll talk about that later,

00:20:28 ◼   ► and what you would typically do is do like power or volume

00:20:30 ◼   ► or something like that,

00:20:31 ◼   ► something that's generic across any sort of input,

00:20:33 ◼   ► And then when you've hit the right one,

00:20:35 ◼   ► when the volume changes or the TV turns off or what have you,

00:20:38 ◼   ► then you hit a different button on the remote

00:20:40 ◼   ► to say to the remote, yeah, yeah, that was that last one.

00:20:43 ◼   ► That was the one.

00:20:43 ◼   ► Save it.

00:20:44 ◼   ► And you're saying that there's no option for that in the TiVo?

00:20:47 ◼   ► I mean, all I'm saying is the support document

00:20:49 ◼   ► didn't say that.

00:20:51 ◼   ► It just said, enter this code.

00:20:52 ◼   ► And then allowing at least two seconds between presses,

00:20:55 ◼   ► keep pressing the channel up button,

00:20:57 ◼   ► and it will try all sorts of codes.

00:20:58 ◼   ► The way you do it normally is you hold down

00:21:01 ◼   ► some buttons for five seconds.

00:21:02 ◼   ► you enter a four digit code,

00:21:03 ◼   ► and then you try the power button.

00:21:04 ◼   ► Like entering the four digit code says,

00:21:06 ◼   ► I'm going to be this kind of universal remote,

00:21:08 ◼   ► this universal remote code, right?

00:21:10 ◼   ► So as soon as, if you try the power button, it works,

00:21:12 ◼   ► you're done, 'cause you don't have to enter any more codes.

00:21:13 ◼   ► Like that configuration process,

00:21:15 ◼   ► it'll hold down the button so light turns on

00:21:16 ◼   ► and type in the four digit code, that's it, you're done.

00:21:18 ◼   ► There's no other step.

00:21:20 ◼   ► But the whole point of this other thing

00:21:21 ◼   ► is it's going to cycle through the codes.

00:21:23 ◼   ► And I don't, it didn't say like,

00:21:25 ◼   ► oh, when the television turns off,

00:21:26 ◼   ► the remote will just magically know,

00:21:28 ◼   ► and it will stop cycling.

00:21:29 ◼   ► Or when the television turns off,

00:21:30 ◼   ► quick hit this button to tell the remote,

00:21:31 ◼   ► "Hey, you found it."

00:21:32 ◼   ► It didn't say that in the support article,

00:21:33 ◼   ► so I don't understand if the support article says,

00:21:35 ◼   ► "Yeah, oh yeah, hold down the buttons that enter 0999,

00:21:38 ◼   ► "and then every two seconds hit channel up,

00:21:39 ◼   ► "and then just live there for the rest of your life

00:21:41 ◼   ► "hitting channel up every two seconds?"

00:21:42 ◼   ► I have no idea.

00:21:43 ◼   ► - Real-time follow-up, RIP Mac, I guess Rip Mac,

00:21:48 ◼   ► says in the chat, at the very bottom it says, quote,

00:21:51 ◼   ► "If you press channel up and your TV turns off,

00:21:53 ◼   ► "press enter to select the code.

00:21:55 ◼   ► "Press the TV power button to test the code.

00:21:56 ◼   ► "If your TV turns on,

00:21:57 ◼   ► "you have successfully programmed the remote."

00:21:59 ◼   ► - This is interesting,

00:22:00 ◼   ► a different document than the one I had.

00:22:02 ◼   ► 'Cause the one I was pointed to was at a different URL

00:22:06 ◼   ► and it had the 0999 code, not the 199,

00:22:08 ◼   ► I guess the 199 one's for AV-ster receivers.

00:22:10 ◼   ► All right, so I mean, I can try that next time,

00:22:13 ◼   ► see if it'll go through all the codes,

00:22:14 ◼   ► but I do wonder if it's actually using all 1,000 of them.

00:22:18 ◼   ► The other thing is, how many codes is it going through

00:22:20 ◼   ► and how long it'll be sitting there hitting channel up?

00:22:22 ◼   ► Because I know a couple of them will at least work

00:22:24 ◼   ► for the power button and kind of work for the volume.

00:22:26 ◼   ► - It seems to me like it's just time

00:22:27 ◼   ► abandon that piece of crap TiVo am I right? No, still pretty good. Except for not 4k obviously.

00:22:34 ◼   ► There's got to be something that would serve these purposes without actually being a TiVo.

00:22:41 ◼   ► And somebody wrote in to scold me justifiably, and I don't have your name in front of me

00:22:45 ◼   ► I'm sorry, but to say you know Channels, which sponsored us once in the past and one of the

00:22:49 ◼   ► co-founders is a personal friend of mine, but Channels does darn near everything that

00:22:54 ◼   ► TiVo does, and arguably does it better.

00:22:57 ◼   ► And so, now I'm not a TiVo person,

00:22:59 ◼   ► I've never been a TiVo person,

00:23:00 ◼   ► so maybe I'm over selling here,

00:23:01 ◼   ► but it is worth thinking about.

00:23:04 ◼   ► Maybe it is time to get rid of the TiVo, Jon.

00:23:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, lots of people promoted the channel's UI,

00:23:08 ◼   ► especially as a way to not have to use the YouTube TV UI,

00:23:11 ◼   ► which other YouTube TV users also complain about,

00:23:14 ◼   ► like the guide thing only going one item at a time.

00:23:16 ◼   ► They say, well, you don't have to worry about that,

00:23:17 ◼   ► 'cause if you use channels, you don't have to use their UI,

00:23:19 ◼   ► you can just use the channel's UI, which is really nice,

00:23:21 ◼   ► lots of raves for that.

00:23:23 ◼   ► Problem with me for channels, at least right now,

00:23:25 ◼   ► is the product that they have,

00:23:27 ◼   ► like the hardware product that they have

00:23:28 ◼   ► that accepts cable cards, they don't manufacture anymore

00:23:30 ◼   ► and haven't manufactured a long time.

00:23:32 ◼   ► On their website they say, "Oh, just go on eBay and get it."

00:23:34 ◼   ► And that's not-- - No, no, no, no,

00:23:35 ◼   ► that's not true. - What I'm looking for.

00:23:36 ◼   ► - I'm almost sure, I'm not gonna search for it

00:23:39 ◼   ► while we're live, but I went down this road

00:23:42 ◼   ► just a couple of months ago to see if I could get

00:23:44 ◼   ► the HD home run that takes a cable card,

00:23:46 ◼   ► and I am pretty sure Amazon had some in stock at the time.

00:23:50 ◼   ► - Well, the getchannels.com website

00:23:53 ◼   ► it links to eBay now, so.

00:23:55 ◼   ► But the whole point is it's not a product they make anymore.

00:23:57 ◼   ► Their website, they say, we don't make that anymore.

00:23:59 ◼   ► So I'm--

00:24:00 ◼   ► - No, actually, I'm looking at it right now.

00:24:00 ◼   ► It's Silicon Dust HD Home Run Prime Cable TV 3 Tuner.

00:24:04 ◼   ► It takes a cable card, 150 bucks on Amazon,

00:24:07 ◼   ► available right now.

00:24:08 ◼   ► - Right, but they don't make it anymore.

00:24:10 ◼   ► Like, it's a dead product.

00:24:12 ◼   ► - It doesn't, and TiVo isn't?

00:24:14 ◼   ► Like, first of all, TiVo is too.

00:24:14 ◼   ► - No, they still make TiVos.

00:24:15 ◼   ► You can buy one right now.

00:24:17 ◼   ► - Well, first of all, I don't understand why you think

00:24:19 ◼   ► it's a dead product if I'm looking at it in--

00:24:21 ◼   ► - I know, but you can't make it.

00:24:22 ◼   ► don't make it anymore. I don't think that's true John I really honestly I

00:24:25 ◼   ► understand what channel says I'm not arguing that. One, this model is no longer

00:24:29 ◼   ► manufactured you can still find them on eBay though that's what it says on the

00:24:33 ◼   ► getchannels.com website. Yes but why wouldn't you trust Silicon Dust like I'm

00:24:38 ◼   ► pretty sure. But why don't they make it anymore why is there no replacement for it?

00:24:42 ◼   ► I think they do I'm pretty sure they do. It says on their website they don't. No but

00:24:46 ◼   ► you're getting confused channels doesn't make the hardware channels is just

00:24:50 ◼   ► talking about silicon dust hardware.

00:24:52 ◼   ► Channels is software only.

00:24:54 ◼   ► So they're not the arbiter of what silicon dust is

00:24:57 ◼   ► or is not doing.

00:24:58 ◼   ► And so if you go to silicon dust website,

00:25:02 ◼   ► it's so busted and ancient,

00:25:03 ◼   ► it says that it's actually in development,

00:25:05 ◼   ► but it's available on Amazon right now.

00:25:10 ◼   ► You can buy it right now.

00:25:11 ◼   ► I'm tempted to send it to you right now, but I'm too cheap.

00:25:14 ◼   ► So it is available.

00:25:16 ◼   ► I don't think it's a dead product, I really don't.

00:25:18 ◼   ► - Is it the same product they're talking about?

00:25:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause I'm wondering, well, I don't--

00:25:20 ◼   ► - Yes, I'm pretty sure. - It's the HD Home Run Prime?

00:25:23 ◼   ► - Yes, that's what's on it.

00:25:24 ◼   ► Let me put the link in the show notes here.

00:25:26 ◼   ► - Why does Git Channel say,

00:25:27 ◼   ► "This model is no longer manufactured"?

00:25:29 ◼   ► - I understand what you're saying.

00:25:31 ◼   ► I get it, I really do.

00:25:33 ◼   ► I can't put an affiliate link in, that's annoying.

00:25:36 ◼   ► Anyway, I just sent you the link.

00:25:38 ◼   ► - Oh, Amazon has plenty of things

00:25:39 ◼   ► that aren't manufactured anymore, but anyway.

00:25:41 ◼   ► I mean, the real problem with the Git Channel thing,

00:25:43 ◼   ► from my perspective, aside from the sketchiness

00:25:46 ◼   ► of getting something that works with CableCard,

00:25:47 ◼   ► and by the way, it only has three tuners instead of six,

00:25:49 ◼   ► which is not great.

00:25:50 ◼   ► - How often do you need to record

00:25:51 ◼   ► more than three things at once?

00:25:53 ◼   ► - A surprising amount of time,

00:25:55 ◼   ► 'cause I've had six tuners for many, many years

00:25:57 ◼   ► and you just get used to not having to worry about it.

00:25:59 ◼   ► - How do you have time to watch all of this TV?

00:26:01 ◼   ► - Yes, seriously.

00:26:02 ◼   ► - It's just sometimes there's,

00:26:03 ◼   ► it's not that there's so much TV,

00:26:04 ◼   ► it's just like television,

00:26:06 ◼   ► there's a popular times for shows to be on.

00:26:08 ◼   ► - And you watch every,

00:26:09 ◼   ► so you're recording like ABC, CBS, Fox,

00:26:12 ◼   ► and all, and I can't even, NBC.

00:26:14 ◼   ► - Well, not network TV, come on,

00:26:15 ◼   ► I'm like this and that, that's madness.

00:26:16 ◼   ► - I'm just saying.

00:26:18 ◼   ► - On cable shows, there are popular times

00:26:19 ◼   ► multiple things on and then you might want to be watching something else. I don't think I need six,

00:26:23 ◼   ► but three is pushing because I think I had a three tuner TiVo and sometimes you would bump into

00:26:27 ◼   ► limits. Then get two of them! Yeah, I mean it starts to add up. Anyway, the other thing about

00:26:31 ◼   ► the, you know, so that thing with the cable cards is the cable card box thing doesn't actually

00:26:38 ◼   ► record anything, it is just to ferry the signal. So then you need to run the channel software on

00:26:44 ◼   ► some device and to its credit the channel thing runs on tons of things. It runs with Synology,

00:26:47 ◼   ► you can run it on a PC,

00:26:48 ◼   ► I think you can run it on a bunch of Apple devices,

00:26:51 ◼   ► but that means that you need to have a hard drive

00:26:53 ◼   ► that you're gonna dedicate to this,

00:26:54 ◼   ► or at least have enough hard drive space to store stuff,

00:26:56 ◼   ► which is great, you can have as much space as you want,

00:26:58 ◼   ► but bad in that now you have to buy and build this thing.

00:27:00 ◼   ► So I did look, I'm some kind of--

00:27:01 ◼   ► - No, Sean, I have it running on a Mac mini,

00:27:04 ◼   ► the reefer Mac mini that I just bought like a month ago,

00:27:07 ◼   ► and you know where it saves all of its stuff?

00:27:10 ◼   ► To the Synology.

00:27:11 ◼   ► (bell ringing)

00:27:12 ◼   ► Because why wouldn't you?

00:27:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, you can run,

00:27:13 ◼   ► I think you can run it on the Synology,

00:27:15 ◼   ► you don't even need a Mac mini, I think.

00:27:16 ◼   ► potentially, but I don't trust that.

00:27:19 ◼   ► - Maybe when my TiVo finally dies,

00:27:20 ◼   ► I will probably look into this.

00:27:21 ◼   ► I mean, what I really want to do

00:27:22 ◼   ► is not have the cable card either,

00:27:24 ◼   ► which is kind of the direction they're going.

00:27:25 ◼   ► You can do the whatever TV Anywhere thing

00:27:27 ◼   ► where it uses the API to get the stuff,

00:27:28 ◼   ► but it still kind of seems like on the fringes

00:27:31 ◼   ► even more so than TiVo,

00:27:33 ◼   ► because TiVo, for all its wonkiness,

00:27:36 ◼   ► has a very established tech stack.

00:27:38 ◼   ► There's nothing in the tech stack

00:27:40 ◼   ► that is imminently going to be destroyed,

00:27:42 ◼   ► other than cable card being essentially discontinued,

00:27:44 ◼   ► which is a bummer.

00:27:45 ◼   ► But aside from that, no sort of streaming service

00:27:49 ◼   ► is angry that TiVo is recording channels and stuff like that.

00:27:51 ◼   ► Whereas I can imagine the various streaming services,

00:27:54 ◼   ► even the ones that do currently support whatever API

00:27:56 ◼   ► they're using to scrape video from the web,

00:27:58 ◼   ► might decide that it's not in their best interest

00:28:00 ◼   ► to support that anymore.

00:28:01 ◼   ► Already, some of them don't support it.

00:28:03 ◼   ► So it just seems like more moving parts and more stuff

00:28:07 ◼   ► to deal with.

00:28:08 ◼   ► Now, that said, I'm kind of interested in just using it

00:28:10 ◼   ► just to see the interface and just connecting it

00:28:12 ◼   ► to streaming services.

00:28:13 ◼   ► Because you don't have to use cable card or do any cable.

00:28:14 ◼   ► You can just sign in with your streaming service credentials

00:28:18 ◼   ► or also sign in with your cable credentials,

00:28:20 ◼   ► and it will try to pull them from the web too,

00:28:22 ◼   ► because you don't need to use a cable card to use this.

00:28:24 ◼   ► So I'm going to look into that to see how that goes,

00:28:27 ◼   ► because if I can get YouTube TV-ish 4K content

00:28:30 ◼   ► for regular shows without cable card, which is what I want,

00:28:34 ◼   ► because that's kind of also a dead end,

00:28:36 ◼   ► I may be interested in that.

00:28:37 ◼   ► But really, I just want to see what the UI looks like.

00:28:39 ◼   ► - So real-time follow-up from John Maddox,

00:28:43 ◼   ► who is the aforementioned co-founder of channels,

00:28:47 ◼   ► I said, "Is this still being manufactured?"

00:28:50 ◼   ► Linking him what I did on Amazon.

00:28:52 ◼   ► And he said, "They found more of the chips last year.

00:28:55 ◼   ► They've been selling it again for a year."

00:28:58 ◼   ► - There was a box in the back

00:28:59 ◼   ► that had some more chips in it.

00:29:02 ◼   ► - So he said, "Having Fios, which you do, Jon,

00:29:06 ◼   ► you're silly for not getting one for channels.

00:29:08 ◼   ► It's hands down the best setup."

00:29:10 ◼   ► And he said, "Yeah, they weren't for sale for a while."

00:29:12 ◼   ► and I told him you were very, very worked up about the website and he said he would

00:29:16 ◼   ► change it for you tonight. So by the time you look at this listener, if you look in

00:29:20 ◼   ► the show notes, you may not see what Jon saw, but it will be updated soon. Anyway, Jon Maddox,

00:29:27 ◼   ► the co-founder, said it's not a dead product or it's not any more dead than Cablecart

00:29:32 ◼   ► is as a whole. So there you go.

00:29:34 ◼   ► So the co-founder of the company says that you should get this product. Got it.

00:29:38 ◼   ► - No, no, no, John, again, he doesn't care whether,

00:29:42 ◼   ► he doesn't get a cut from HD Home Run.

00:29:44 ◼   ► It's a different entire company.

00:29:45 ◼   ► - No, I get it, that's also kind of part of the problem.

00:29:47 ◼   ► - It doesn't sound like you get it though,

00:29:49 ◼   ► 'cause channels is just software.

00:29:50 ◼   ► - I was reading their website that said

00:29:52 ◼   ► it was no longer manufactured and that made,

00:29:53 ◼   ► and they also didn't have any information

00:29:56 ◼   ► about another cable card model, and that was like,

00:29:58 ◼   ► okay, well fine, this one isn't manufactured,

00:29:59 ◼   ► but I'll just buy the new one, right?

00:30:00 ◼   ► And they didn't have a link to that either,

00:30:02 ◼   ► so that makes me think, I mean, I know what you're saying,

00:30:04 ◼   ► like I said, cable card itself is, you know,

00:30:07 ◼   ► not really going to be a going concern for much longer and it kind of isn't anymore either but

00:30:12 ◼   ► it's what i'm currently using and tivo support it um and so i would and you can buy a brand new

00:30:18 ◼   ► tivo today that supports it a model that is still manufactured so tivo still got that one up there

00:30:24 ◼   ► i mean i hear you and as much as i love poking fun at you for using this ancient ass piece of

00:30:29 ◼   ► technology i really genuinely think that you would probably be better served by using channels and

00:30:36 ◼   ► in one of these boxes.

00:30:37 ◼   ► - What I would suggest to channels is,

00:30:41 ◼   ► for someone like me, who's a Mac person,

00:30:43 ◼   ► suggest a build.

00:30:44 ◼   ► I would build myself a little PC,

00:30:46 ◼   ► or suggest what is the best experience.

00:30:48 ◼   ► Should I use my Synology, or is mine too old in a week?

00:30:51 ◼   ► Should I use a Mac Mini like you?

00:30:53 ◼   ► That seems a pretty expensive way to do this, right?

00:30:54 ◼   ► And yeah, if there was a little,

00:30:56 ◼   ► oh, here's, if you wanna build yourself a PC

00:30:59 ◼   ► that works great with this setup,

00:31:02 ◼   ► here's a cheap way to do it.

00:31:03 ◼   ► 'Cause I don't wanna go through the research

00:31:05 ◼   ► building my own PC that does all this stuff,

00:31:07 ◼   ► and I'm not quite ready to buy a new Synology yet.

00:31:10 ◼   ► I don't wanna spend thousand plus dollars

00:31:12 ◼   ► on a Mac Mini to do it.

00:31:13 ◼   ► So, faced with that kind of situation where,

00:31:16 ◼   ► oh, they don't even make it, it's a different company,

00:31:19 ◼   ► it's all different people doing the things they want,

00:31:20 ◼   ► but if I just wanna go in and say,

00:31:21 ◼   ► I don't wanna deal with any of this,

00:31:22 ◼   ► I just want something that's as easy as TiVo

00:31:24 ◼   ► or as close as I can get,

00:31:25 ◼   ► they're still a little far from that in terms of the setup.

00:31:27 ◼   ► Obviously, if that's not what you want,

00:31:29 ◼   ► if you want the ability to customize it,

00:31:31 ◼   ► you can build it the way you want,

00:31:32 ◼   ► you can put the storage that you want,

00:31:34 ◼   ► then channels is great.

00:31:34 ◼   ► And apparently everybody loves the UI,

00:31:36 ◼   ► which is the main reason I'm looking into it.

00:31:38 ◼   ► But if you're just looking for that TiVo type experience,

00:31:41 ◼   ► now that TiVo is slowly fading away,

00:31:44 ◼   ► no one is there to take its place.

00:31:46 ◼   ► - I hear what you're saying,

00:31:48 ◼   ► but consider that I use a Mac Mini

00:31:50 ◼   ► because I don't wanna deal with supporting anything else.

00:31:53 ◼   ► - And you have a Mac Mini.

00:31:54 ◼   ► Like if I had one, I would use it.

00:31:55 ◼   ► - Right.

00:31:56 ◼   ► But if I wasn't doing it on this,

00:31:58 ◼   ► I believe they have a build for Raspberry Pis.

00:32:00 ◼   ► And of course, if I'm not gonna solve a problem

00:32:02 ◼   ► a with the Synology then I'll solve with Raspberry Pi. But I genuinely think you're making this

00:32:08 ◼   ► out to be much harder than it really is. I understand what you're saying, I really honestly

00:32:12 ◼   ► do. But if you got one of these tuner things, these HD home runs, which again, completely

00:32:18 ◼   ► and utterly different company than channels. If you got one of these and put your cable

00:32:21 ◼   ► card that's currently in the TiVo into this and hooked it up to any computer in the house,

00:32:27 ◼   ► you have so many computers in that house. I mean, any computer that's running 24/7 or

00:32:32 ◼   ► really running any time that you--

00:32:33 ◼   ► - I would have to be in the basement.

00:32:35 ◼   ► This stuff, that type of thing can't be

00:32:36 ◼   ► in the upstairs with the people.

00:32:38 ◼   ► - What thing?

00:32:39 ◼   ► What do you think--

00:32:41 ◼   ► - Anything that is not in the,

00:32:42 ◼   ► like any computer that's, unless it's completely silent,

00:32:46 ◼   ► any other computer doesn't stay up.

00:32:47 ◼   ► - Well, is Tina's iMac on 24/7?

00:32:50 ◼   ► - It's not an iMac.

00:32:51 ◼   ► She has a Mac Studio and it's under the desk

00:32:53 ◼   ► and it's on 24/7 and it's silent.

00:32:54 ◼   ► - So then, run the channel software on the Mac Studio.

00:32:58 ◼   ► You've already got your problem solved.

00:32:59 ◼   ► - Oh, no, I'm not gonna do that.

00:33:00 ◼   ► - Why?

00:33:01 ◼   ► 'Cause you restarting the computer

00:33:03 ◼   ► while someone's watching TV, right?

00:33:06 ◼   ► - How often do you restart the computer?

00:33:07 ◼   ► - I don't know what she does on her computer.

00:33:09 ◼   ► It's her computer, but she does not want,

00:33:11 ◼   ► and I don't want the state of her computer

00:33:13 ◼   ► to affect people watching television.

00:33:15 ◼   ► It's unacceptable entanglement.

00:33:17 ◼   ► - You are being incredibly difficult.

00:33:19 ◼   ► - I mean, I run the Plex server on her thing,

00:33:21 ◼   ► but a Plex, I don't have-- - Oh my God, John!

00:33:23 ◼   ► Why is that okay?

00:33:25 ◼   ► Why is it different?

00:33:26 ◼   ► - I don't have an SLA on my Plex server,

00:33:28 ◼   ► and I'm the only person who knows how to use Plex,

00:33:30 ◼   ► So it's not like it has anyone else's stuff on it.

00:33:32 ◼   ► - Holy smokes, my dude.

00:33:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:33:34 ◼   ► (sighing)

00:33:34 ◼   ► Am I just getting--

00:33:35 ◼   ► - I also, I mean, I also run the Plex server

00:33:36 ◼   ► in the Synology too.

00:33:37 ◼   ► So if the Plex server is,

00:33:39 ◼   ► I have so many Plex servers in my house.

00:33:41 ◼   ► If that Plex server is down, you can go to the one on,

00:33:43 ◼   ► I have it on two Synologies.

00:33:44 ◼   ► So you can go to either one.

00:33:45 ◼   ► - Oh my God. - And yes,

00:33:46 ◼   ► they all point to the same data.

00:33:47 ◼   ► So you can go to any of those.

00:33:50 ◼   ► - Why? - Any three Plex servers.

00:33:51 ◼   ► - I don't even have two Plex servers running in this house

00:33:53 ◼   ► and I'm obsessed with Plex.

00:33:54 ◼   ► - You should, it's handy.

00:33:56 ◼   ► I mean, I have everything being mirrored, right?

00:33:58 ◼   ► - So I have, her Plex server points to the Synology

00:34:02 ◼   ► with just an SMB mount of the Synology, right?

00:34:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's the way mine works.

00:34:05 ◼   ► - And then Synology obviously runs Plex

00:34:08 ◼   ► with its local storage.

00:34:09 ◼   ► And then I have a second Synology

00:34:11 ◼   ► that I clone the first Synology to,

00:34:12 ◼   ► and that runs its own copy of Plex on the clone of the data,

00:34:15 ◼   ► which is kept in sync with the synchronization service

00:34:18 ◼   ► that we couldn't remember the name of that at the time.

00:34:20 ◼   ► - Well, all I'm saying is this doesn't have to be

00:34:24 ◼   ► as difficult as you're making it out to be.

00:34:25 ◼   ► I understand how you got to where you are,

00:34:28 ◼   ► but you were making this way harder than it needs to be.

00:34:30 ◼   ► - I'll say, what I really just want is a 4K TiVo.

00:34:32 ◼   ► Do you have the co-founder of TiVo on the phone with you?

00:34:34 ◼   ► Oh no, they're long gone.

00:34:36 ◼   ► - No, but I can tell you this,

00:34:39 ◼   ► I don't know if actually channels does do 4K,

00:34:41 ◼   ► but I bet you if anything could feed at 4K,

00:34:43 ◼   ► I would be surprised if it didn't accept it and eat it.

00:34:46 ◼   ► - I think to get 4K, it would, I mean, I don't know,

00:34:48 ◼   ► but I don't think cable car can even handle that.

00:34:50 ◼   ► I think it would have to be the streaming service thing,

00:34:51 ◼   ► 'cause get channels can just pull stuff

00:34:53 ◼   ► from your streaming service

00:34:55 ◼   ► and any of the various streaming service.

00:34:56 ◼   ► That's how it works with YouTube TV and stuff like that.

00:34:58 ◼   ► - Yes, although I think that 720,

00:35:01 ◼   ► which is not channels is fault,

00:35:02 ◼   ► I think that's what the streaming service

00:35:03 ◼   ► gives you via TV everywhere,

00:35:05 ◼   ► but I could be wrong about that.

00:35:07 ◼   ► I don't know, all I'm saying is the software

00:35:08 ◼   ► is super easy to install,

00:35:10 ◼   ► migrating it is hilarious.

00:35:12 ◼   ► Like when I migrated from the old Mac Mini

00:35:13 ◼   ► to the new Mac Mini,

00:35:14 ◼   ► doing the Plex migration was not a nightmare,

00:35:17 ◼   ► but was not fun.

00:35:18 ◼   ► Doing the channels migration was basically

00:35:20 ◼   ► install the channel software

00:35:21 ◼   ► and then point it at the right folder

00:35:22 ◼   ► and then magic happens.

00:35:23 ◼   ► It's as though it was on that machine forever.

00:35:26 ◼   ► So it really is really, and again, John, the other John, is a friend of mine.

00:35:31 ◼   ► I'm a little bit biased, but I went kicking and screaming into using channels.

00:35:35 ◼   ► He kept beating me up about it, like, "Why are you using Plex? Why are you using Plex? Use this, use this."

00:35:39 ◼   ► And I don't think channels is a reasonable replacement for Plex, although you could do that.

00:35:44 ◼   ► But I will say, as a DVR, channels really is fantastic. Plus you can set it up to do fun things

00:35:50 ◼   ► like make a virtual channel that just plays Letterkenny 24/7, which I have done,

00:35:55 ◼   ► or whatever your particular vice may be.

00:35:57 ◼   ► So genuinely, I mean, they are a former sponsor,

00:36:00 ◼   ► the guy is a friend of mine, so take all this

00:36:01 ◼   ► with as much salt as you desire,

00:36:03 ◼   ► but hand to God, it really is great software,

00:36:06 ◼   ► and it's worth trying out.

00:36:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, I will try as much of it as I can

00:36:10 ◼   ► without changing any hardware setups,

00:36:12 ◼   ► and just to see if I like the UI or whatever,

00:36:13 ◼   ► and then I'll see where I go with it,

00:36:14 ◼   ► kind of like I did with YouTube TV.

00:36:16 ◼   ► I knew when I got the new setup, I was gonna try it.

00:36:18 ◼   ► You know, I stumbled on the UI.

00:36:21 ◼   ► - I would definitely give it a roll.

00:36:24 ◼   ► Final TV thing, the mystery of the box.

00:36:27 ◼   ► How does that box work?

00:36:29 ◼   ► The top and the bottom halves don't seem to stay together

00:36:32 ◼   ► and yet somehow it got into my house.

00:36:35 ◼   ► The answer was that apparently I blacked out

00:36:36 ◼   ► when the TV was delivered

00:36:38 ◼   ► because when it was delivered to my house,

00:36:40 ◼   ► it had two of those thin plastic mesh straps

00:36:45 ◼   ► that come on packages wrapped around the thing.

00:36:49 ◼   ► So I'll put a tweet in the show notes

00:36:52 ◼   ► you can see exactly what it looks like.

00:36:54 ◼   ► Yeah, and I cut those off,

00:36:57 ◼   ► and that's what was holding the top to the bottom,

00:36:58 ◼   ► but I totally forgot that I had cut those off.

00:37:01 ◼   ► - Oh, sweet.

00:37:02 ◼   ► - I mean, no, I mean, you can't, they're not,

00:37:04 ◼   ► like, you have to cut them off to open the box.

00:37:06 ◼   ► - Are you able to properly disconnect those

00:37:10 ◼   ► and throw them away without cutting your hand?

00:37:12 ◼   ► 'Cause I'm not.

00:37:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, you just gotta be careful.

00:37:14 ◼   ► - Like, literally every time I operate

00:37:16 ◼   ► those plastic strap things, I'm like, all right, careful,

00:37:18 ◼   ► don't get a cut, like, it's like a paper cut.

00:37:21 ◼   ► - Easy, easy.

00:37:22 ◼   ► - Hiding it through your hands or something?

00:37:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, somehow I do that and I always cut my finger.

00:37:26 ◼   ► It's like a big paper cut, it's terrible.

00:37:28 ◼   ► It's like the worst, and I have never operated those things

00:37:31 ◼   ► and successfully gotten them from the box

00:37:33 ◼   ► to the trash can all the way without getting a cut.

00:37:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, those things are a nightmare.

00:37:38 ◼   ► All right, anything else about your TV or are you solid?

00:37:41 ◼   ► - I think that's it for now.

00:37:43 ◼   ► - Are you enjoying it?

00:37:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, we watch some stuff on it.

00:37:45 ◼   ► I mean, you know, having a TV.

00:37:47 ◼   ► - Some?

00:37:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I've been podcasting a lot,

00:37:49 ◼   ► but other people have been watching it,

00:37:51 ◼   ► But having a fancy TV really, you know, now it was easier before when I could be like,

00:37:55 ◼   ► "Oh, this show is in 1080.

00:37:57 ◼   ► Oh, this is in HDR."

00:37:58 ◼   ► Like, all the things that I never noticed or cared about before.

00:38:01 ◼   ► Now there's this hierarchy of like, you're more excited to watch shows that take advantage

00:38:07 ◼   ► of the features of your new TV and less excited to do ones that...

00:38:10 ◼   ► Because honestly, like a 1080 SDR show, it looks better than it did on my old TV, but

00:38:16 ◼   ► not wow you better, because it's 1080 and it's SDR and it's being upscaled and, you

00:38:20 ◼   ► know.

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00:40:19 ◼   ► The two of you went on vacation recently

00:40:25 ◼   ► and I was curious to hear your respective tech experiences.

00:40:30 ◼   ► Every year when Jon does this trip,

00:40:32 ◼   ► we get a camera report of how the camera situation

00:40:35 ◼   ► has changed and evolved and how it performed.

00:40:37 ◼   ► And Casey, when you take your vacation,

00:40:39 ◼   ► usually I know you take good drone photos

00:40:43 ◼   ► and you probably connected at least four

00:40:45 ◼   ► or five Apple TVs to a hotel or rental TV at some point

00:40:49 ◼   ► through your various HDMI cables

00:40:50 ◼   ► that you keep in your travel pack.

00:40:52 ◼   ► So I'm wondering what kind of tech experiences

00:40:56 ◼   ► do you have in your vacations?

00:40:57 ◼   ► - I mean, let me start 'cause I don't think I have that much

00:41:00 ◼   ► to be honest with you.

00:41:01 ◼   ► The big to do with regard to my travel a couple of weeks

00:41:05 ◼   ► back was the aforementioned issues with HomeKit

00:41:08 ◼   ► and the Apple TV.

00:41:09 ◼   ► And the Apple TV being convinced that my home

00:41:12 ◼   ► was actually now in Cape Charles rather than in Richmond,

00:41:15 ◼   ► which was super fun.

00:41:17 ◼   ► But other than that, not that much was that different.

00:41:20 ◼   ► Having my desktop computer come with me was kind of neat

00:41:23 ◼   ► because I only have a laptop now,

00:41:25 ◼   ► and that is my only computer. - Desktop laptop.

00:41:27 ◼   ► - Yep, yep, yep.

00:41:28 ◼   ► So that was kind of neat, I kind of liked that.

00:41:29 ◼   ► It was nice to be able to process photos as much as I do

00:41:34 ◼   ► with my Kakamimi setup, and then because I was connected

00:41:37 ◼   ► to my VPN at home, I could copy and upload

00:41:40 ◼   ► all of those photos to the Synology as though I was at home from the beach. So I

00:41:45 ◼   ► didn't have to do like, you know, several hours of going through all of them when

00:41:49 ◼   ► I got home. I just did a little bit each day with the pictures I had taken and

00:41:52 ◼   ► then just uploaded them just like I always do. Granted it was a little bit

00:41:57 ◼   ► slower from the beach because they were on a, you know, a cable connection with

00:42:00 ◼   ► not a particularly strong upload side connection but nevertheless... You couldn't

00:42:04 ◼   ► find a really fast bench there. Yeah, right exactly. No, unfortunately not. But

00:42:09 ◼   ► nevertheless, you know, it's nice having your desktop with you, which I enjoy. And

00:42:12 ◼   ► then I wrote a blog post about this like a week ago, and I'll put this in the show

00:42:16 ◼   ► notes, but I have, as Marco mentioned, a Go pack. And what I mean by that is I have

00:42:21 ◼   ► a, it's actually a Harry's, former sponsor Harry's shaving, I have a Harry's

00:42:27 ◼   ► toiletry kit that just so happens to be like a perfect size to carry all of my

00:42:31 ◼   ► travel cables and things and whatnots. And so it used to be that I had just an

00:42:38 ◼   ► obscene amount of cables in there. And in short, what I did was I would get, I had one of those,

00:42:45 ◼   ► like, plug it into the wall in boxes and then it had five USB-A connections on it. And so I would

00:42:52 ◼   ► typically use four of them. At the very least, I would use one for Aaron's phone, one for Aaron's

00:42:57 ◼   ► watch, one for my phone, one for my watch. And then I would have some USB-A extension cables so

00:43:02 ◼   ► that the box would be on my side of the bed, but I could, you know, put a couple extensions and then

00:43:07 ◼   ► and then a lightning cable on the end of those extensions

00:43:09 ◼   ► so I could get the connection all the way

00:43:11 ◼   ► to Erin's side of the bed

00:43:12 ◼   ► so she can put her phone down when she's ready

00:43:14 ◼   ► rather than having to hand it to me for me to plug in.

00:43:16 ◼   ► And it was just cables upon cables upon cables upon cables,

00:43:20 ◼   ► and it was annoying.

00:43:22 ◼   ► And what I ended up doing, as we spoke about

00:43:25 ◼   ► a few episodes ago,

00:43:25 ◼   ► is getting these absurdly overpriced Mophie things.

00:43:28 ◼   ► And that was super nice

00:43:30 ◼   ► because all I had to do was plug in two of those.

00:43:32 ◼   ► And then they have MagSafe,

00:43:34 ◼   ► they have the Apple Watch chargers on them,

00:43:36 ◼   ► and that worked out real well and I liked that.

00:43:39 ◼   ► I did bring the Apple TV and connected that via HDMI.

00:43:42 ◼   ► I connected the Switch with the Switch dock via HDMI.

00:43:47 ◼   ► Oh, and the other thing I did was,

00:43:50 ◼   ► Merlin turned me onto this idea.

00:43:52 ◼   ► I brought with me, I don't remember the exact model name,

00:43:57 ◼   ► but it's on the blog post that I'll link in the show notes,

00:43:59 ◼   ► I brought my own universal remote,

00:44:01 ◼   ► which I use now when I go to hotels or Airbnbs and whatnot,

00:44:05 ◼   ► because people say, and maybe this is BS,

00:44:07 ◼   ► but people say that remote controls

00:44:10 ◼   ► are some of the most disgusting things

00:44:11 ◼   ► in like a hotel room or what have you.

00:44:13 ◼   ► And because of that, I've decided, yep, no thanks,

00:44:16 ◼   ► I'll just bring my own, which is a little bit tinfoil hat,

00:44:18 ◼   ► I'll be the first to tell you.

00:44:19 ◼   ► But I did that and that lets you program in

00:44:23 ◼   ► what TV or whatever you're using

00:44:25 ◼   ► based on a four or five digit code.

00:44:26 ◼   ► And it also does the whole scanning dance

00:44:29 ◼   ► like we were talking about earlier.

00:44:30 ◼   ► But I brought that and used that on the TV there

00:44:33 ◼   ► and that worked great.

00:44:34 ◼   ► And unlike last year, I didn't lose one of the Apple TV remotes in the house, so I didn't have to spend $70 when I got home.

00:44:41 ◼   ► That's an expensive loss.

00:44:42 ◼   ► Yeah, well, I was really pissed. And this was right after it came out, too. I was really, really pissed about it.

00:44:47 ◼   ► But nonetheless, it worked out real well.

00:44:51 ◼   ► The drone, I didn't use it quite as much. It was really windy when we were there,

00:44:54 ◼   ► and windier than my little Mavic Mini or DJI Mini 2 could handle.

00:45:00 ◼   ► But I did take a few shots and I gotta tell you, even though I don't use the drone that often,

00:45:05 ◼   ► about a year and change on, maybe a year and a half on, I am still glad I bought it and I still do

00:45:10 ◼   ► enjoy using it. And I still think aerial photography is super fun, partially because it's just not

00:45:16 ◼   ► something that a lot of people are capable of doing in the sense that they haven't spent obscene

00:45:19 ◼   ► amount of money on a drone. But I do enjoy it quite a bit and I wish I had had the opportunity

00:45:26 ◼   ► to get out more, but like I said, it was just the weather was super crummy in terms of wind. Like,

00:45:30 ◼   ► Like it was fine in, you know, human terms, but in for the drone it was really bad and that was that was unfortunate

00:45:37 ◼   ► But I think that was mostly it. The only problem I had was

00:45:41 ◼   ► We we when we were up when we're driving up. I like to use my GoPro as kind of a poor man's

00:45:49 ◼   ► Dashcam and what I'll do is I'll put the GoPro pointed out the front of Aaron's car and I'll put it on time-lapse mode

00:45:55 ◼   ► So it takes a picture of photo still every like second and my theory is

00:45:59 ◼   ► is it's better than nothing if, god forbid, we get in some sort of accident. I'll have some sort of

00:46:03 ◼   ► documentation of what happened, right? And the problem with that, though, is that on a two and a

00:46:07 ◼   ► half hour trip, which in this case ended up being three and a half hours because of traffic,

00:46:11 ◼   ► the GoPro will deplete its battery during the span of that time. And so I typically use a battery

00:46:18 ◼   ► pack that I keep in my laptop bag, which is also mentioned in this blog post. I'll connect that to

00:46:21 ◼   ► the GoPro and it'll keep the GoPro charged fine. But in this case, I thought to myself, "I wonder

00:46:27 ◼   ► if I could use my travel computer charger, which is a very unremarkable, what is it,

00:46:35 ◼   ► GAN, I don't remember, something nitride or something?

00:46:38 ◼   ► Gallium nitride?

00:46:39 ◼   ► Something like that, yeah, yeah.

00:46:41 ◼   ► So basically it's a physically small charger, and I thought, man, I wonder if I could use

00:46:46 ◼   ► that to plug in, so it's an AC adapter, and I wonder if I could plug in the GoPro in my

00:46:51 ◼   ► iPad, which I was using for most of the trip, or maybe even my computer if I felt it, plug

00:46:56 ◼   ► both of those into the AC adapter, and then we have a very, very old inverter. So this

00:47:02 ◼   ► is a thing you plug it into the cigarette lighter, and it has an AC outlet on the other

00:47:05 ◼   ► end. And I thought, "Well, I wonder if I could plug this in and power the GoPro off of the

00:47:10 ◼   ► car rather than this battery pack, and then plug in my iPad as well, which would be kind

00:47:14 ◼   ► of nice." Because my iPad now, since my switch to Verizon, it has cellular service. And I

00:47:20 ◼   ► got to tell you, Marco, have you known how wonderful it is to have cellular service on

00:47:24 ◼   ► device other than your phone. Imagine, Marco, how freaking great it would be to

00:47:28 ◼   ► have that on your desktop laptop. Are we are you talking about Verizon's ultra

00:47:31 ◼   ► fast worldwide 5G network? That's exactly right. But seriously, I really wish I had the option for that on a

00:47:38 ◼   ► computer because I know it would be obscenely expensive and I would grumble

00:47:42 ◼   ► about it for months but I would be so happy to have it. No, it wouldn't have to be. It's

00:47:46 ◼   ► only like $129 premium on the iPad. Yeah, but you know they would charge $250

00:47:50 ◼   ► on a Mac. Well, of course they would but like it doesn't it doesn't have to be.

00:47:53 ◼   ► You know, I feel like we do a slight disservice

00:47:57 ◼   ► whenever we make it seem like this is some huge reach

00:48:01 ◼   ► to add cellular to a Mac.

00:48:02 ◼   ► It's not.

00:48:03 ◼   ► It's been done on PCs forever,

00:48:05 ◼   ► and you can do it on Macs with those USB dongle modem things

00:48:09 ◼   ► that they've had forever.

00:48:11 ◼   ► I don't know, do those still exist?

00:48:13 ◼   ► I used to use those back in the day.

00:48:14 ◼   ► I don't know if they-- - I don't even know.

00:48:16 ◼   ► - They probably do, but anyway.

00:48:17 ◼   ► It's not like this is a hard thing

00:48:19 ◼   ► to add cellular to laptops.

00:48:20 ◼   ► It can be done.

00:48:21 ◼   ► And yeah, there's a couple of minor things

00:48:23 ◼   ► have to do with Mac OS to make it aware of like,

00:48:25 ◼   ► hey maybe don't download the latest episode of Mad Men

00:48:28 ◼   ► from iTunes over cellular and burn up your whole data usage.

00:48:30 ◼   ► - Not that you've ever done that.

00:48:31 ◼   ► - No, definitely not.

00:48:33 ◼   ► But they already have almost all of that infrastructure

00:48:36 ◼   ► in place in the recent URL session and URL connection APIs.

00:48:41 ◼   ► All that stuff is already there for detecting

00:48:44 ◼   ► metered connections and limited connections

00:48:45 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:48:47 ◼   ► So anyway, it's not that much work to add cellular

00:48:50 ◼   ► to the laptops, just like what are we waiting for?

00:48:52 ◼   ► just do it it's fine yes yes please but anyway so I wanted to power all this we

00:48:56 ◼   ► have my inverter and the inverter we haven't used that in years like it still

00:49:01 ◼   ► works but I think the last thing that was plugged into it was a breast pump

00:49:04 ◼   ► when Aaron was breastfeeding so like it's it hasn't been used in a while but

00:49:08 ◼   ► nevertheless I tried plugging in this like I don't know 80 90 watt Gann charger

00:49:13 ◼   ► and the inverter was like you know nope that's way too much and so none of this

00:49:17 ◼   ► was a problem but I have since purchased and I'll put a link in the show notes a

00:49:21 ◼   ► a pure sine wave inverter, which is very cool, and that has two AC outlets on it and supposedly

00:49:27 ◼   ► is up to 300 watts and actually does it actually has a 60 watt USB-C PD port on it in and of itself

00:49:34 ◼   ► so I may not even need to plug in my GaN charger if I'm only plugging in one device. But anyway,

00:49:39 ◼   ► I'm going to try that out and next time we're on a longer trip and see if that works because

00:49:43 ◼   ► that would be kind of cool. But I don't know, for the most part it was basically same old stuff,

00:49:47 ◼   ► But I tell you, when you do have your travel setup locked in and squared away, which I feel like I do pretty well now,

00:49:54 ◼   ► it is super nice. And again, I preach the gospel of the Go Pack. Just have a package or a packet or a bag or what have you

00:50:02 ◼   ► that has cables that you never ever use for anything else. You never ever use for anything else.

00:50:11 ◼   ► One more time, you never use it for anything else. And then, you know at a moment's notice,

00:50:17 ◼   ► all you have to do is grab that bag. You don't have to worry about, "Oh, I gotta undo the thing

00:50:20 ◼   ► by the bed," or, "Oh, I gotta do this, I gotta do that." No, you just grab the bag. You grab the bag

00:50:24 ◼   ► and you're set. I cannot preach this gospel loudly enough. - I, too, do that. Like, I have--so,

00:50:29 ◼   ► first of all, like, I used to be a little bit more of a backpack nerd, and I had, you know,

00:50:33 ◼   ► three or four different bags. You know, I would watch Chase Reeves' reviews on YouTube and get

00:50:37 ◼   ► all the cool bags he recommended, and I loved how, you know, how cool the different ones were.

00:50:41 ◼   ► And I realized over time that it was kind of a pain in the butt to have a bunch of different

00:50:47 ◼   ► bags to have to keep stuff shuffled between or never quite have the stuff you think you

00:50:51 ◼   ► have or have to maintain duplicate copies of everything.

00:50:54 ◼   ► So I went down to just having one backpack.

00:50:56 ◼   ► And that's the backpack I bring to everything.

00:50:58 ◼   ► And in that backpack is what you're talking about.

00:51:01 ◼   ► A complete set of everything, cables, chargers, adapters.

00:51:06 ◼   ► And those things are only used outside of my home.

00:51:09 ◼   ► They are never used in the home.

00:51:11 ◼   ► They are never taken out of the backpack

00:51:13 ◼   ► because then they will never go back into the backpack.

00:51:15 ◼   ► And then when I'm out somewhere, I won't have them.

00:51:17 ◼   ► And so, I do the same thing and it is so, so worth it.

00:51:22 ◼   ► - And it's expensive.

00:51:23 ◼   ► A lot of these things, like Apple dongles,

00:51:25 ◼   ► are super expensive.

00:51:26 ◼   ► These freaking $150 Mophie things that I do love,

00:51:29 ◼   ► but obviously that's silly expensive.

00:51:32 ◼   ► But I do genuinely think, as frugal as I am,

00:51:36 ◼   ► spending the money on having a complete go pack

00:51:39 ◼   ► that is redundant for things that you would use

00:51:41 ◼   ► in the house, I can't speak it highly enough.

00:51:44 ◼   ► - I mean, and the good thing is too,

00:51:45 ◼   ► like over time, we need fewer of these things.

00:51:48 ◼   ► And this is, by the way, this is part of the reason

00:51:50 ◼   ► why I push so hard on getting rid of lightning.

00:51:52 ◼   ► Because if we get rid of lightning,

00:51:53 ◼   ► I need even fewer of these things.

00:51:55 ◼   ► But now that everything is USB-C everywhere,

00:51:59 ◼   ► we have USB-C multi-port chargers, as you mentioned,

00:52:02 ◼   ► like the new generation of GaN chargers is even smaller

00:52:06 ◼   ► and can fit even more ports and even more wattage.

00:52:09 ◼   ► Like, so we have this amazing abundance

00:52:11 ◼   ► of great charging equipment and technology now,

00:52:15 ◼   ► and it's really just kind of waiting

00:52:16 ◼   ► for Apple to make it simpler.

00:52:17 ◼   ► Like, you know, the thorns on my side

00:52:19 ◼   ► are the, are Lightning and the Apple Watch.

00:52:22 ◼   ► Like, those things needing their own

00:52:24 ◼   ► special charging things are annoying,

00:52:26 ◼   ► but otherwise, like, so many things

00:52:28 ◼   ► that we used to need in the past, we don't need.

00:52:30 ◼   ► And with this new generation of laptops,

00:52:32 ◼   ► you don't even need most of the dongles anymore.

00:52:33 ◼   ► Like, you need a way to get a USB-A sometimes,

00:52:37 ◼   ► but that's about it.

00:52:38 ◼   ► I have my SD card now built in,

00:52:41 ◼   ► HDMI's built in if I ever need it,

00:52:42 ◼   ► although I probably won't, but you do,

00:52:44 ◼   ► other people use it.

00:52:45 ◼   ► So a lot of that stuff went away now,

00:52:47 ◼   ► it's new generation, so hopefully it'll keep

00:52:49 ◼   ► moving this direction and get more and more standardized,

00:52:51 ◼   ► more USB-C stuff, fewer custom chargers from Apple,

00:52:55 ◼   ► and fewer reasons to carry around

00:52:56 ◼   ► the mini USB adapters for other crap.

00:52:59 ◼   ► - Yep, yep, yep, yep.

00:53:01 ◼   ► John, how was your trip?

00:53:02 ◼   ► - I'm gonna comment on the travel bag thing first,

00:53:03 ◼   ► 'cause you guys talk about this a lot,

00:53:04 ◼   ► and Merlin talks about it a lot,

00:53:05 ◼   ► And if it's a thing that makes you feel good to have,

00:53:10 ◼   ► which obviously it does for both of you, then fine.

00:53:13 ◼   ► But I would say, practically speaking,

00:53:15 ◼   ► I don't think either one of you travels enough.

00:53:18 ◼   ► This is a requirement in your life.

00:53:19 ◼   ► No, I agree.

00:53:20 ◼   ► You're not a spy that the CIA is going to call you

00:53:23 ◼   ► until your identity is burned and you have to leave

00:53:24 ◼   ► in a moment's notice.

00:53:25 ◼   ► You want to make sure you have all the adapters.

00:53:27 ◼   ► Like, it's just a fun thing that you're doing,

00:53:29 ◼   ► either to keep Dave and Dogs at bay

00:53:30 ◼   ► or just because it's a fun convenience

00:53:32 ◼   ► that you spend a little bit extra money for

00:53:33 ◼   ► and it gives Marco something to put in his backpacks.

00:53:35 ◼   ► but I certainly do travel. - Backpack singular.

00:53:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, sorry.

00:53:39 ◼   ► - Backpack monogamous now.

00:53:40 ◼   ► I've given up my old ways.

00:53:42 ◼   ► - I travel so little, and when I do travel,

00:53:45 ◼   ► I bring the stuff that I need to put in me,

00:53:47 ◼   ► and it's not a big deal, but you know,

00:53:49 ◼   ► if this is a thing that you're into

00:53:50 ◼   ► and you wanna have a go bag, you can have a go bag.

00:53:52 ◼   ► I do not have a go bag.

00:53:54 ◼   ► When I go, I put things in a bag.

00:53:55 ◼   ► It's a little bit different.

00:53:57 ◼   ► - Boo. - Sorry, and it's cool,

00:53:59 ◼   ► it's fun, I'm just saying, like,

00:54:00 ◼   ► if you're listening to this,

00:54:01 ◼   ► we preach the same gospel, like,

00:54:02 ◼   ► oh, you really need backups or whatever,

00:54:04 ◼   ► I'm gonna say this is a different category of things.

00:54:05 ◼   ► Like, back up your family photos,

00:54:07 ◼   ► but if you don't have a go bag, you'll probably be fine.

00:54:09 ◼   ► Unless you're like a frequent business traveler,

00:54:10 ◼   ► in which case you should definitely have this,

00:54:11 ◼   ► because you will forget stuff,

00:54:13 ◼   ► but none of us are frequent business travelers.

00:54:15 ◼   ► - By the way, I travel more than both of you.

00:54:17 ◼   ► - I know, you go back and forth.

00:54:19 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:54:20 ◼   ► But when you do that, you're not bringing your go bag,

00:54:23 ◼   ► 'cause you've got stuff at both places.

00:54:24 ◼   ► - No, I'm bringing my backpack every time.

00:54:26 ◼   ► You know what's also in my backpack?

00:54:27 ◼   ► The car key, the house key, like an inhaler.

00:54:30 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, do you have to have a special go bag

00:54:33 ◼   ► to keep your wallet and car keys in?

00:54:34 ◼   ► No, everyone just puts them in,

00:54:36 ◼   ► brings them with them when they go and--

00:54:37 ◼   ► - No, but if I'm gonna take a boat across the bay first,

00:54:42 ◼   ► I wanna make sure that--

00:54:42 ◼   ► - But you're not bringing,

00:54:44 ◼   ► make sure you have adapters to connect to your iPad

00:54:46 ◼   ► and your phone and your watch charger.

00:54:48 ◼   ► That's not essential for you to bring with you

00:54:51 ◼   ► because there's a watch charger and an iPad charger

00:54:54 ◼   ► and all that stuff at both places you're going.

00:54:56 ◼   ► - I know I can take the exact same bag with me,

00:54:59 ◼   ► whether I'm just going to Westchester

00:55:01 ◼   ► or whether I'm flying across the country.

00:55:02 ◼   ► I know I can take that same bag and have the things I need.

00:55:05 ◼   ► And the things you're talking about are not like

00:55:07 ◼   ► a massive amount of size or weight or cost.

00:55:10 ◼   ► You're talking about like three cables, basically.

00:55:13 ◼   ► - I just feel like you could also pack that bag

00:55:14 ◼   ► when you need to go.

00:55:15 ◼   ► - But why would you?

00:55:16 ◼   ► Why wouldn't you?

00:55:17 ◼   ► For someone who, I think, and I am a very nervous traveler,

00:55:20 ◼   ► but I think of the three of us, you are the worst.

00:55:22 ◼   ► For someone who is such a nervous traveler,

00:55:24 ◼   ► just cross this off the list.

00:55:25 ◼   ► - I never travel anywhere.

00:55:27 ◼   ► Not traveling is the most relaxing.

00:55:28 ◼   ► (laughing)

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00:57:26 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:57:30 ◼   ► So speaking of traveling, one, I mean,

00:57:31 ◼   ► you know, I've been going to Long Island every summer

00:57:34 ◼   ► for many, many years now.

00:57:35 ◼   ► We rent places down there.

00:57:36 ◼   ► Used to have-- we had like two steady places that we rented.

00:57:40 ◼   ► One of them we outgrew, and the other one

00:57:42 ◼   ► that people stopped renting it, basically,

00:57:44 ◼   ► which is kind of a bummer.

00:57:46 ◼   ► But so we've rented many other places in between.

00:57:50 ◼   ► And if you're listening to this and you have a rental house,

00:57:53 ◼   ► please make sure that in this day and age,

00:57:56 ◼   ► your internet stuff works.

00:57:57 ◼   ► It amazes me how many places,

00:58:01 ◼   ► I've never been in a place with good internet.

00:58:03 ◼   ► And I'm like, do people ever live in this house?

00:58:06 ◼   ► In one case I knew they did.

00:58:07 ◼   ► This was someone's actual house where they lived,

00:58:08 ◼   ► they just rented it out for the summer.

00:58:10 ◼   ► But how do they tolerate not having good internet

00:58:12 ◼   ► in their house?

00:58:14 ◼   ► And maybe it's like they make it bad

00:58:16 ◼   ► when the summer renters come,

00:58:19 ◼   ► and then they make it good again.

00:58:20 ◼   ► And how would they make it bad and good?

00:58:21 ◼   ► Well, there seems to be this thing with people--

00:58:23 ◼   ► - Why would they make it bad?

00:58:25 ◼   ► - Well, I'll explain it to you.

00:58:26 ◼   ► - There seems to be this thing that every place

00:58:29 ◼   ► that I've ever rented, they let you use their house.

00:58:34 ◼   ► You're in there, you're using their house.

00:58:35 ◼   ► If you've ever had a rental house,

00:58:36 ◼   ► there's usually some part of the house

00:58:37 ◼   ► or some part that's locked up that has the owner's stuff

00:58:40 ◼   ► that you're not supposed to go into, right?

00:58:42 ◼   ► That makes sense, don't touch the good china,

00:58:44 ◼   ► this is where the stuff from our bedroom is,

00:58:46 ◼   ► don't go in there, that's fine, that all makes sense.

00:58:49 ◼   ► But 100% of the time in all the rental houses

00:58:52 ◼   ► I've ever been in, the internet router,

00:58:55 ◼   ► internet connection stuff is one of those things

00:58:57 ◼   ► that they lock up.

00:58:59 ◼   ► - Oh really?

00:58:59 ◼   ► I don't think I've ever seen that.

00:59:00 ◼   ► - Always.

00:59:01 ◼   ► - No, I've always seen it like, you know,

00:59:02 ◼   ► shoved behind the TV.

00:59:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:04 ◼   ► - And all the rental has it been, it is locked up center.

00:59:07 ◼   ► It's locked in a basement, it's locked in a cabinet,

00:59:09 ◼   ► it's just all locked up.

00:59:10 ◼   ► And you would think, okay, well,

00:59:12 ◼   ► that's so like the renters don't screw it up

00:59:14 ◼   ► because non-techie people are gonna come in

00:59:15 ◼   ► and they're gonna, something's not gonna work

00:59:17 ◼   ► and they're like, I can fix it and they'll screw it up

00:59:19 ◼   ► and then they're gonna call the owners and say,

00:59:20 ◼   ► hey, the internet doesn't work

00:59:21 ◼   ► and then it's just a big hassle.

00:59:22 ◼   ► so lock it up so they can't screw it up, right?

00:59:25 ◼   ► That would be fine, except it's pretty screwed up

00:59:27 ◼   ► almost all the time.

00:59:28 ◼   ► And the second problem is, where they lock it up

00:59:31 ◼   ► is often someplace that doesn't acknowledge the fact that,

00:59:34 ◼   ► hey, do you realize that's where your Wi-Fi is coming from?

00:59:36 ◼   ► You've put it in the basement

00:59:37 ◼   ► in a locked room in the corner,

00:59:39 ◼   ► you think I'm gonna get that Wi-Fi in the living room

00:59:41 ◼   ► on the other side of the house anymore?

00:59:42 ◼   ► No, you buried the router, that's the source of your Wi-Fi.

00:59:46 ◼   ► Oh, just put it like a repeater.

00:59:47 ◼   ► No, the repeater doesn't help

00:59:48 ◼   ► when it's on the other side of the house.

00:59:49 ◼   ► It's like 100 feet and three floors

00:59:51 ◼   ► from the actual source of the wifi.

00:59:53 ◼   ► And I know this because what I always do

00:59:54 ◼   ► when I go into these houses is I say,

00:59:55 ◼   ► where the hell is this people's internet stuff?

00:59:57 ◼   ► Like what are they using and let me find it?

00:59:59 ◼   ► Like let me set it free.

01:00:00 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:00:01 ◼   ► And it's always locked up.

01:00:02 ◼   ► So this year we went to a house,

01:00:04 ◼   ► the same house we went to last year,

01:00:06 ◼   ► and its internet is so bad,

01:00:09 ◼   ► just it might as well be useless.

01:00:10 ◼   ► A lot of the time it's just you can't load any webpage,

01:00:13 ◼   ► it's just down.

01:00:14 ◼   ► And is that because the actual internet is down

01:00:17 ◼   ► from their provider?

01:00:18 ◼   ► I don't think so.

01:00:20 ◼   ► Part of it might have to do with the fact

01:00:21 ◼   ► where they lock up their stuff, right?

01:00:24 ◼   ► The clue, if you search the house and you're like,

01:00:26 ◼   ► where the hell is it locked up?

01:00:27 ◼   ► 'Cause there are sections of it that are closed off,

01:00:29 ◼   ► like it must be in there, I guess,

01:00:30 ◼   ► but no, based on signal strength,

01:00:31 ◼   ► that doesn't seem like that's where it is.

01:00:33 ◼   ► They use Eero, so you can find an Eero,

01:00:35 ◼   ► so like I found an Eero, but it's just a,

01:00:37 ◼   ► you know, it's one of the satellite things,

01:00:38 ◼   ► it's not the thing, like there's no Ethernet cable

01:00:41 ◼   ► going into it, right?

01:00:42 ◼   ► So they're using Eero, and the WiFi signal strength

01:00:45 ◼   ► is good everywhere, 'cause Eero is good at blanking it

01:00:47 ◼   ► with WiFi, but where is the actual,

01:00:48 ◼   ► where does the internet come from?

01:00:50 ◼   ► And if you pick up that Eero and turn it over,

01:00:52 ◼   ► you see the ominous word in Sharpie

01:00:55 ◼   ► written on the bottom of this Eero, which is shed.

01:00:58 ◼   ► What?

01:01:00 ◼   ► So their internet stuff was in their backyard

01:01:03 ◼   ► in a locked shed, far from the house.

01:01:06 ◼   ► It's a wooden shed, it's locked up,

01:01:09 ◼   ► it's got a padlock on it, and that's where they're into it.

01:01:13 ◼   ► Is cable buried under the ground?

01:01:16 ◼   ► Is cable internet?

01:01:17 ◼   ► Like, how does the internet get to there?

01:01:19 ◼   ► But either way, when it goes down

01:01:21 ◼   ► and the light on the arrow turns red

01:01:22 ◼   ► and you can't get anywhere,

01:01:23 ◼   ► there's nothing you can do about it.

01:01:25 ◼   ► And when it's up, it's just, the speeds are awful.

01:01:28 ◼   ► Like I would do the thing, speaking of cases,

01:01:30 ◼   ► like reviewing photos on vacation, that's what I do.

01:01:32 ◼   ► You take pictures during the day,

01:01:33 ◼   ► I load them onto my laptop that I brought with me.

01:01:36 ◼   ► I sort through them or whatever,

01:01:37 ◼   ► usually have a slideshow at night

01:01:38 ◼   ► showing the day's photos to the family, right?

01:01:40 ◼   ► But also, the other function I'm doing is

01:01:42 ◼   ► I load them onto the computer

01:01:43 ◼   ► and then I usually leave the computer plugged in and on

01:01:46 ◼   ► so it can shove them up the iCloud photo library, right?

01:01:48 ◼   ► In this house, if you leave this thing open

01:01:51 ◼   ► while you're asleep, it will upload like three photos.

01:01:53 ◼   ► Like the upload speeds and the connection is so bad

01:01:56 ◼   ► that it's like, it's pointless, right?

01:01:59 ◼   ► So when we go there, this is the house that we're in,

01:02:00 ◼   ► but the rest of my family's in another house

01:02:02 ◼   ► that's like a couple blocks away.

01:02:04 ◼   ► Their internet connection at least works well enough

01:02:06 ◼   ► to upload, so what I would do is I would go over their house,

01:02:08 ◼   ► plug my laptop in, shove it in a corner, and let it upload,

01:02:10 ◼   ► because at least it would progress over time.

01:02:13 ◼   ► So that continues to be a frustration,

01:02:15 ◼   ► people locking their internet stuff in obscure locations

01:02:18 ◼   ► 'cause I mean, again, I get it,

01:02:20 ◼   ► I understand they don't want people screwing with it,

01:02:22 ◼   ► but it just plain doesn't work half the time.

01:02:24 ◼   ► And then you get kids there,

01:02:25 ◼   ► and they're all on their devices,

01:02:26 ◼   ► so they're complaining the internet doesn't work.

01:02:27 ◼   ► Luckily, they both have phones,

01:02:28 ◼   ► so worst case scenario, you just drop back to 5G,

01:02:30 ◼   ► which is mostly what they did,

01:02:32 ◼   ► and now you just hope you don't burn through all your data

01:02:34 ◼   ► because the kids just give up on WiFi

01:02:35 ◼   ► because it never works, and the cellular is faster anyway.

01:02:38 ◼   ► - Was it the Verizon nationwide ultra?

01:02:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, on, on, right?

01:02:42 ◼   ► It was an ultra wideband like the bench, though,

01:02:44 ◼   ► so it was, you know, it was just,

01:02:45 ◼   ► at least web pages will load,

01:02:47 ◼   ► and of course, my daughter's always on Spotify,

01:02:50 ◼   ► so that's all streaming all the time,

01:02:52 ◼   ► so we are using a lot of bandwidth,

01:02:53 ◼   ► but yeah, the WiFi is just grim.

01:02:55 ◼   ► And at the other house, the WiFi is better,

01:02:58 ◼   ► but still not good.

01:02:59 ◼   ► I'm not sure where their router is locked up,

01:03:01 ◼   ► I didn't go searching for it,

01:03:03 ◼   ► but yeah, every house has bad WiFi,

01:03:07 ◼   ► and I don't know how people live like that.

01:03:09 ◼   ► - See, I'm surprised, 'cause like,

01:03:11 ◼   ► so I live in a vacation town,

01:03:13 ◼   ► and so almost every house here

01:03:16 ◼   ► gets rented on a regular basis in the summertime.

01:03:18 ◼   ► And the clear standard here is that people usually

01:03:23 ◼   ► make the Wi-Fi router easily accessible

01:03:25 ◼   ► in the middle of the house,

01:03:26 ◼   ► buy whatever the primary TV is in the living room.

01:03:28 ◼   ► And the reason why, first of all,

01:03:29 ◼   ► it's there because that's where they install it,

01:03:31 ◼   ► 'cause that's where Verizon usually,

01:03:33 ◼   ► this is a Fios town,

01:03:34 ◼   ► that's where Verizon always defaults to installing it.

01:03:37 ◼   ► And it's accessible because what often,

01:03:40 ◼   ► much more often happens than people messing it up

01:03:43 ◼   ► is that they get there and it doesn't work,

01:03:45 ◼   ► like what happened to you,

01:03:46 ◼   ► and they call the owner or management company,

01:03:49 ◼   ► like hey, the wifi doesn't work,

01:03:49 ◼   ► and somebody has to go reboot it.

01:03:51 ◼   ► And it's much easier and more practical

01:03:52 ◼   ► for them to just tell the renter,

01:03:54 ◼   ► just unplug it and plug it back in,

01:03:56 ◼   ► and they can kind of fix it themselves,

01:03:58 ◼   ► rather than having to send somebody out there

01:04:00 ◼   ► who has access to the owner's shed or whatever.

01:04:03 ◼   ► So I'm surprised yours is done that way,

01:04:05 ◼   ► because if it's rented, every summer,

01:04:08 ◼   ► it's a different piece, or at least to a bunch of people,

01:04:10 ◼   ► I'm surprised that issue hasn't been bothersome enough

01:04:13 ◼   ► to them that they haven't just been like,

01:04:15 ◼   ► hey, fix it yourself.

01:04:16 ◼   ► - I mean, well, part of the thing is,

01:04:17 ◼   ► when the Eero Lite turns red and it's like,

01:04:19 ◼   ► I have no Android connection,

01:04:20 ◼   ► I didn't do anything to fix that.

01:04:22 ◼   ► It eventually fixed itself and it went back

01:04:24 ◼   ► to its normal, terrible speeds.

01:04:26 ◼   ► And I don't know what caused that.

01:04:27 ◼   ► It may be something is rebooting inside the shed

01:04:30 ◼   ► or whatever.

01:04:31 ◼   ► At the previous house, I had the habit

01:04:33 ◼   ► of bringing a Wi-Fi extender with me.

01:04:34 ◼   ► This is in the days before Eero.

01:04:36 ◼   ► I would bring a Wi-Fi extender so I could get

01:04:37 ◼   ► the Wi-Fi signal from where I knew it was locked up

01:04:40 ◼   ► and I would sort of daisy chain these cheap Wi-Fi extenders

01:04:42 ◼   ► It's not you know, not a mesh network not like a row

01:04:44 ◼   ► but just like a repeater to get the signal and that would make it so because it was so bad in that house that in

01:04:50 ◼   ► The main sort of living room the one with this big giant 80s sectional sofa like the biggest sofa ever seen in my life

01:04:55 ◼   ► I just show you a picture over hilarious very 80s. This house was super 80s

01:04:59 ◼   ► Like it was so 80s that it had I think I've talked to it for like the in the in wall intercoms that rich people houses

01:05:04 ◼   ► Had in the 80s

01:05:05 ◼   ► And like the new tone like radio so you could pump radio and a cassette player to play through all the speakers throughout the house

01:05:11 ◼   ► Super eighties welcome to Long Island. Yeah

01:05:13 ◼   ► It was such a time capsule was amazing

01:05:16 ◼   ► But in the main room of that giant sectional and what was originally a gigantic rear projection television again total eighties rich people house, right?

01:05:22 ◼   ► It was zero Wi-Fi. You just you couldn't do anything, right?

01:05:26 ◼   ► So I had because that's where we wanted to be hanging out and like as we got more and more devices

01:05:30 ◼   ► It'd be like well you could be on the comfortable couches talking with people or you could be in this room on like sitting on

01:05:34 ◼   ► This uncomfortable wicker thing, but you can get Wi-Fi and people would slowly migrate that direction because they just wanted to be able to use their phones

01:05:40 ◼   ► Anyway, so that's what I used to do there in this house what I considered because I've watched a lot of YouTube

01:05:46 ◼   ► I've watched enough like lock picking channels to know how to pick those combination padlocks

01:05:50 ◼   ► Combination padlocks like most of those things where you have like a wheel where you turn the zero through nine numbers right on each one

01:05:57 ◼   ► There's pretty simple ways if you watch YouTube videos how to open those locks with nothing more than your fingers and feel it's not as easy

01:06:05 ◼   ► As they make it look especially when the lock is like outdoors and rusted, but I considered doing that but I'm like

01:06:10 ◼   ► you know how you're like breaking and entering,

01:06:11 ◼   ► don't just go to the other house.

01:06:13 ◼   ► And so that's what I did.

01:06:15 ◼   ► I went to their house, do my uploading.

01:06:16 ◼   ► So I did always manage to get everything uploaded.

01:06:19 ◼   ► I think I talked about,

01:06:20 ◼   ► did I talk about photography stuff?

01:06:23 ◼   ► - No, you talked very briefly on rectifs about it,

01:06:25 ◼   ► but not here yet.

01:06:27 ◼   ► - Okay, so I brought the two cameras this year.

01:06:29 ◼   ► I brought the camera that Mark gave me, a7 III.

01:06:32 ◼   ► - The curse gift, yes, thank you.

01:06:33 ◼   ► - Yes, which I was cursed to buy very expensive lenses for.

01:06:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, I was literally laughing out loud

01:06:39 ◼   ► when I heard that, it was delightful.

01:06:41 ◼   ► - And I bought my previous year's camera, the A6600,

01:06:46 ◼   ► with, and my plan this year was to not change lenses

01:06:49 ◼   ► to the beach, which is something I had done in past years,

01:06:51 ◼   ► and I'm pretty good at doing, but it's always nerve-wracking.

01:06:54 ◼   ► There's wind, there's sand, there's water,

01:06:56 ◼   ► there's kids running around the area where you're sitting,

01:06:59 ◼   ► kicking up stuff, like, yeah.

01:07:02 ◼   ► So I don't wanna change lenses to the beach,

01:07:04 ◼   ► but I always have to because I got my super long lens

01:07:05 ◼   ► to get the kids out in the waves,

01:07:07 ◼   ► and I've got, when everyone's back on the blanket,

01:07:09 ◼   ► you can't be using a really long zoom

01:07:10 ◼   ► 'cause they're two inches away from you

01:07:12 ◼   ► and you know, playing on the beach, stuff like that.

01:07:13 ◼   ► So my plan was to use my really long zoom lens

01:07:17 ◼   ► on my a6600 and then use a more reasonable length

01:07:22 ◼   ► on the a7, 'cause I don't have a really long zoom

01:07:27 ◼   ► for the a7.

01:07:28 ◼   ► If you want to get a decent quality,

01:07:31 ◼   ► really long zoom lens for a full frame camera,

01:07:33 ◼   ► A, they're as big as a truck

01:07:34 ◼   ► and B, they're really expensive, right?

01:07:36 ◼   ► I don't have one of those.

01:07:38 ◼   ► I just have it on the small one.

01:07:39 ◼   ► I'll put the links in the show notes,

01:07:41 ◼   ► but the small one I have is the Sony 70-350.

01:07:43 ◼   ► So it's 70-350, but it's an APS-C sensor.

01:07:46 ◼   ► So that 350 is actually whatever the equivalent is,

01:07:48 ◼   ► probably like 400, 500.

01:07:50 ◼   ► And it's a good lens.

01:07:51 ◼   ► I think it's the most expensive lens I have

01:07:53 ◼   ► for my small camera.

01:07:55 ◼   ► And the APS-C is not a big deal,

01:07:57 ◼   ► 'cause it's super sunny at the beach.

01:07:59 ◼   ► You don't need extra light gathering or whatever.

01:08:00 ◼   ► So that setup served me pretty well.

01:08:03 ◼   ► And then on the, on Marco's camera,

01:08:06 ◼   ► I have the horrendously expensive Sony 24-70 GM2,

01:08:11 ◼   ► which is smaller and lighter than the original GM,

01:08:14 ◼   ► which is why I got it, which is why they got it

01:08:16 ◼   ► to liberate that money from my wallet,

01:08:18 ◼   ► because I wasn't gonna buy the other one,

01:08:19 ◼   ► 'cause it's like, ah, it's kind of an old lens,

01:08:21 ◼   ► and it's big and it's heavy, and they said,

01:08:22 ◼   ► but wait, here's exactly the lens you wanted,

01:08:24 ◼   ► but now it's smaller and it's lighter and it's brand new,

01:08:26 ◼   ► and so I got that, and it was very expensive,

01:08:28 ◼   ► but it's also very--

01:08:29 ◼   ► - It probably cost more than the camera.

01:08:30 ◼   ► - It was close.

01:08:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:08:32 ◼   ► - Oh my word.

01:08:33 ◼   ► I also have a, I got a used 85 millimeter 1.8,

01:08:37 ◼   ► I think I talked about it on the show,

01:08:38 ◼   ► but I didn't really use that on the vacation.

01:08:40 ◼   ► So these are the two lenses I used.

01:08:41 ◼   ► It was great not having to swap lenses,

01:08:45 ◼   ► but I did find myself in the slightly awkward situation

01:08:48 ◼   ► of now I have to swap cameras.

01:08:51 ◼   ► Usually not a big deal,

01:08:53 ◼   ► 'cause hey, if you're down by the waves,

01:08:54 ◼   ► you have the one camera, right?

01:08:57 ◼   ► But very often, if you're not familiar

01:08:59 ◼   ► with the ways of Long Island beaches,

01:09:02 ◼   ► There are lifeguards sitting in chairs

01:09:04 ◼   ► trying to keep you alive.

01:09:06 ◼   ► But in general on the Long Island beaches,

01:09:08 ◼   ► if you want to use surfboards or boogie boards,

01:09:10 ◼   ► you're not allowed to use them where the lifeguards are.

01:09:13 ◼   ► I always wondered about that.

01:09:14 ◼   ► It's been that way since I was a kid.

01:09:15 ◼   ► Like I guess you're more likely to drown

01:09:17 ◼   ► when you're using them.

01:09:18 ◼   ► Does it make harder for the lifeguard to see?

01:09:19 ◼   ► I don't actually know the reasoning behind that.

01:09:20 ◼   ► It's just something I never questioned

01:09:21 ◼   ► 'cause it's just been part of my life.

01:09:23 ◼   ► - My best guess is a combination of like,

01:09:27 ◼   ► if you're gonna do stuff like far out on floating devices,

01:09:30 ◼   ► they don't wanna be responsible for you.

01:09:31 ◼   ► and then secondarily maybe that if you're in their zone,

01:09:35 ◼   ► they have to keep watch over the water constantly

01:09:37 ◼   ► and it's probably hard for them to watch

01:09:39 ◼   ► a couple of people way out there

01:09:41 ◼   ► and also a whole bunch of people really close to them.

01:09:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean it's not really a distance thing

01:09:45 ◼   ► 'cause they don't let you use the boogie boards

01:09:46 ◼   ► even if you use it two feet from the shore, right?

01:09:48 ◼   ► They just, no boogie boards allowed, no surfboards allowed.

01:09:50 ◼   ► I'm sure there's very good reasons for it

01:09:52 ◼   ► but I've really never questioned it

01:09:53 ◼   ► 'cause it's just been an obvious law.

01:09:54 ◼   ► And as I explained this, it probably seems weird.

01:09:57 ◼   ► So it doesn't seem weird to me 'cause I grew up like this

01:10:00 ◼   ► But so they have flags in the sand saying,

01:10:02 ◼   ► here is the area where if you swim,

01:10:04 ◼   ► you know, if you extend those lines out into the water,

01:10:06 ◼   ► if you swim between these flags and they move the flags,

01:10:08 ◼   ► more lifeguards come or whatever.

01:10:09 ◼   ► So between these flags, lifeguards are in theory

01:10:11 ◼   ► watching you and may save you, right?

01:10:14 ◼   ► But if you're outside those flags, you're on your own.

01:10:16 ◼   ► And so you're like, well, if they're worried about people

01:10:19 ◼   ► dying or it's a safety thing,

01:10:21 ◼   ► forcing them to go far away from the lifeguards

01:10:24 ◼   ► where no one is watching them,

01:10:25 ◼   ► doing the ostensibly more dangerous thing

01:10:27 ◼   ► doesn't seem to make sense,

01:10:28 ◼   ► but that's exactly what happens, right?

01:10:30 ◼   ► So we go to the beach, we bring boogie boards and sometimes surfboards, and then we basically

01:10:35 ◼   ► take a trek to, or we're going to go down the beach, we're going to go boogie boarding,

01:10:39 ◼   ► we're going to go surfboarding or whatever.

01:10:41 ◼   ► And so you bring all your stuff and you go down the beach.

01:10:42 ◼   ► It's away from, you know, our blanket is where the lifeguards are and that's where everyone's

01:10:46 ◼   ► going in the water mostly, but if you want to do that you go down the beach.

01:10:48 ◼   ► I want to go down the beach, I have to take both cameras with me.

01:10:53 ◼   ► One for the long lens, for the people who are out surfing, but also for the people,

01:10:56 ◼   ► you know, if we're collecting shells or going into little tidal pools on the other side

01:10:59 ◼   ► and doing this stuff like I need both cameras.

01:11:01 ◼   ► So now I've got two cameras around my neck,

01:11:04 ◼   ► walking down the beach, and I'm like swapping between them.

01:11:07 ◼   ► - How do you not get arrested?

01:11:09 ◼   ► - Yes, seriously.

01:11:10 ◼   ► - I mean, I'm going with a family group,

01:11:11 ◼   ► you know, it's obvious what I'm, you know,

01:11:13 ◼   ► I have occasionally had people come up to me

01:11:15 ◼   ► and give me dirty looks or say stuff about like,

01:11:16 ◼   ► hey, who are you taking a picture of?

01:11:17 ◼   ► I'm like, that's my daughter.

01:11:18 ◼   ► They're like, oh, okay.

01:11:20 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:11:20 ◼   ► - Oh my gosh.

01:11:22 ◼   ► - But you know, it's not that big.

01:11:23 ◼   ► Anyway, so I got two cameras around my neck,

01:11:25 ◼   ► and I got pretty good at swapping between them,

01:11:28 ◼   ► but it was a little bit awkward and heavy

01:11:30 ◼   ► dealing with that.

01:11:31 ◼   ► Now, doing it the other way where I have one camera

01:11:33 ◼   ► and a backpack with lenses that I get down and swap

01:11:35 ◼   ► was probably worse.

01:11:37 ◼   ► But yeah, the two camera system,

01:11:39 ◼   ► overall, I give it mostly a thumbs up.

01:11:42 ◼   ► I did kind of miss using primes

01:11:45 ◼   ► 'cause both of these are zooms.

01:11:46 ◼   ► I did kind of miss using primes

01:11:47 ◼   ► because I wasn't gonna swap to them.

01:11:49 ◼   ► I had them with me, I had all my lenses with me

01:11:51 ◼   ► if I wanted them, but in practice, I just didn't.

01:11:54 ◼   ► I never thought I needed to prime enough

01:11:57 ◼   ► to deal with having to change it on the beach.

01:12:00 ◼   ► The other thing was, we had a bunch of days

01:12:02 ◼   ► that were overcast-ish, so a lot of my pictures,

01:12:05 ◼   ► you know, it's nicer when it's sunny,

01:12:06 ◼   ► but rain was predicted for a lot of the days.

01:12:10 ◼   ► Rain mostly held off, which is good,

01:12:12 ◼   ► but the light wasn't great on a lot of the days,

01:12:14 ◼   ► so that kind of made my pictures more dull than usual.

01:12:17 ◼   ► The final thing, and this is not really tech-related,

01:12:20 ◼   ► but it is, well, it kind of is,

01:12:22 ◼   ► I like to take pictures of birds at the beach.

01:12:24 ◼   ► The birds are always there.

01:12:25 ◼   ► They're fun to take pictures of.

01:12:26 ◼   ► It's fun to mess with the camera.

01:12:28 ◼   ► If you follow any of my things on Instagram,

01:12:30 ◼   ► you can see lots of pictures of birds.

01:12:31 ◼   ► That's me usually using the super really long lens

01:12:33 ◼   ► to get them far away and to pull them real close in.

01:12:36 ◼   ► Sometimes planes fly over the beach,

01:12:37 ◼   ► I get pictures of them, that's fun to do.

01:12:40 ◼   ► I did that this year too.

01:12:42 ◼   ► I don't know what the deal is

01:12:43 ◼   ► because we were on Long Island last year, right?

01:12:45 ◼   ► Like I did this trip last year, I think.

01:12:47 ◼   ► So I can't really blame it on like COVID,

01:12:50 ◼   ► like, oh, you know,

01:12:51 ◼   ► so many people hadn't been going to the vacation,

01:12:54 ◼   ► but now the people are back, right?

01:12:56 ◼   ► But this year, the birds were different.

01:12:59 ◼   ► This year, the birds were way more aggressive

01:13:04 ◼   ► than I had seen them on these beaches

01:13:06 ◼   ► in my entire history of going to these specific beaches

01:13:09 ◼   ► at this time of the year.

01:13:10 ◼   ► Gulls on the beach are always,

01:13:13 ◼   ► they want your potato chips, let's face it.

01:13:15 ◼   ► They want anything you're eating,

01:13:16 ◼   ► that's just what gulls are like on the beach,

01:13:18 ◼   ► it's just something you accept, right?

01:13:20 ◼   ► But normally, they do the bird thing,

01:13:23 ◼   ► They just kind of hang back or whatever and then like some kid throws a chip because he thinks it'll be fun and a thousand

01:13:28 ◼   ► Birds to send out of nowhere and it becomes a giant thing or whatever and then the parents say don't throw things to the birds

01:13:33 ◼   ► Right because it just gets them all, you know riled up

01:13:35 ◼   ► This year they weren't waiting for anybody to throw anything. They weren't waiting for a kid to drop a damn sandwich

01:13:42 ◼   ► They would walk by they would walk by and they give you this little side eye and they'd be like they'd be looking at what?

01:13:47 ◼   ► You're eating and they'd you know, and you'd be looking at them. You're like, I'll just I won't throw anything in the middle

01:13:53 ◼   ► it'll be fine, and they just kinda get a little closer.

01:13:55 ◼   ► They kinda look a little closer.

01:13:56 ◼   ► Maybe one or two of them would see somebody who like,

01:13:59 ◼   ► oh, someone went to the water,

01:14:00 ◼   ► and then someone else went to the water,

01:14:01 ◼   ► and now no one is at their blanket.

01:14:03 ◼   ► They go over to that blanket and say, hmm, a backpack.

01:14:05 ◼   ► - What?

01:14:06 ◼   ► - Let me stick my nose in that backpack.

01:14:07 ◼   ► What do you got in here?

01:14:08 ◼   ► Oh, I got a bag of chips, oh, I got a bag of chips!

01:14:09 ◼   ► Pulls the bag of chips out of the backpack,

01:14:11 ◼   ► and 100 birds come down and they tear the bag of chips open.

01:14:13 ◼   ► You know, and then the people come back from the water

01:14:16 ◼   ► and it's just their bag of chips is gone,

01:14:18 ◼   ► and there's a mess by their thing or whatever.

01:14:20 ◼   ► They were so aggressive this year.

01:14:23 ◼   ► They were pulling things out of people's bags,

01:14:25 ◼   ► pulling bags, I posted on Instagram,

01:14:28 ◼   ► you can see one pulling a bag of pistachios out.

01:14:30 ◼   ► It must be an expensive bag of pistachios,

01:14:31 ◼   ► it looks pretty big.

01:14:32 ◼   ► They would just go into your stuff and get your food.

01:14:35 ◼   ► They weren't waiting for you to throw it, right?

01:14:37 ◼   ► The other thing is, so we'd all be there,

01:14:39 ◼   ► like it's lunchtime, everyone comes back to the blanket,

01:14:41 ◼   ► they're all wet, they got their wet hair,

01:14:42 ◼   ► they got the towels around them,

01:14:43 ◼   ► we're sitting under our umbrellas,

01:14:45 ◼   ► all the kids are eating their sandwiches,

01:14:46 ◼   ► we're eating the stuff, whatever.

01:14:48 ◼   ► And the birds are looking at you

01:14:49 ◼   ► and they know you got stuff.

01:14:49 ◼   ► Whatever, we're experienced,

01:14:51 ◼   ► we're not gonna throw them food,

01:14:52 ◼   ► Even the little kids know you don't throw foods to the birds.

01:14:54 ◼   ► It gets them all riled up.

01:14:54 ◼   ► Keep your food to yourself, right?

01:14:56 ◼   ► But they keep walking by.

01:14:57 ◼   ► And then like, we had our chairs in like a U shape.

01:15:01 ◼   ► And you could see if you're on one side of the U,

01:15:02 ◼   ► you could see on the other side of the U,

01:15:04 ◼   ► they're walking behind the other people over there.

01:15:05 ◼   ► And you'd be like, "Psst, there's a bird behind you."

01:15:07 ◼   ► And you turn around and look at it.

01:15:08 ◼   ► And you think, "Oh, I turn around and look at it.

01:15:09 ◼   ► "It's gonna fly away."

01:15:09 ◼   ► And the other bird would just look at you and say,

01:15:10 ◼   ► "What, I'm just walking here.

01:15:12 ◼   ► "Don't mind me," right?

01:15:14 ◼   ► And aside from getting pooped on, which should happen once,

01:15:18 ◼   ► 'cause occasionally they'll fly over your head

01:15:19 ◼   ► and poop on you, I'm there with the camera going like,

01:15:21 ◼   ► wow, this is crazy. - Sounds awful.

01:15:23 ◼   ► - These birds are real close,

01:15:24 ◼   ► I can get lots of pictures of them.

01:15:25 ◼   ► And it was really windy and they were doing a lot

01:15:27 ◼   ► of low-level flying, like back and forth

01:15:30 ◼   ► over the blanket area, which was good

01:15:31 ◼   ► for taking pictures of them, whatever.

01:15:33 ◼   ► But they were also doing a lot of low-level flying.

01:15:35 ◼   ► I'm like, hmm, you got the walkers and you got the flyers.

01:15:38 ◼   ► And at one point, I wasn't paying attention,

01:15:41 ◼   ► I was just talking to the people on my side of the thing.

01:15:43 ◼   ► And then one of my little nephews started crying

01:15:46 ◼   ► on the other side, and they're like,

01:15:47 ◼   ► you know what, what happened, what happened?

01:15:48 ◼   ► It's like, oh, a bird, the bird tried to grab his sandwich

01:15:51 ◼   ► or something like that.

01:15:52 ◼   ► I don't think anyone saw it happen, but he was very upset

01:15:54 ◼   ► and he said that a bird had tried to grab something

01:15:56 ◼   ► that he was eating, right?

01:15:58 ◼   ► Not that he was throwing food

01:16:00 ◼   ► or the bird was pulling something from a bag,

01:16:02 ◼   ► but he was trying to get the thing that he was eating.

01:16:03 ◼   ► He was very upset by it.

01:16:04 ◼   ► And they're all going and comforting the little boy

01:16:07 ◼   ► and everything, right?

01:16:07 ◼   ► While this is happening, I'm eating my sandwich.

01:16:10 ◼   ► You know, we make our own little sandwiches

01:16:12 ◼   ► and bring them to the beach.

01:16:13 ◼   ► I'm eating my sandwich and a bird comes from behind me

01:16:17 ◼   ► in the air and takes a bite of my sandwich

01:16:20 ◼   ► that is in my hands.

01:16:21 ◼   ► - Oh my gosh. - And I'm in the process

01:16:23 ◼   ► of eating.

01:16:24 ◼   ► I didn't, he didn't get the sandwich

01:16:26 ◼   ► 'cause my grip, I grabbed it as they went away,

01:16:29 ◼   ► but he took a bite out of it.

01:16:30 ◼   ► And of course now I gotta throw out the whole sandwich,

01:16:32 ◼   ► it's got a bird bite on it, right?

01:16:33 ◼   ► I want the bird slobber that came on this thing,

01:16:35 ◼   ► but I'm like, it's in my hands, right?

01:16:38 ◼   ► And that happened, I think once again,

01:16:39 ◼   ► to one other person.

01:16:40 ◼   ► So the new move was like when we're eating lunch,

01:16:42 ◼   ► hold your food close to your chest

01:16:44 ◼   ► and be aware that the nearest bird may be behind you.

01:16:47 ◼   ► Like, we're watching in front of us,

01:16:48 ◼   ► we're watching all those birds, watching them, whatever.

01:16:50 ◼   ► Like, I thought I was covered,

01:16:51 ◼   ► and there was an umbrella too,

01:16:53 ◼   ► the thing flew like under the umbrella,

01:16:54 ◼   ► over my shoulder, over the back of the seat,

01:16:57 ◼   ► and you know, while still flying, went achomp,

01:17:00 ◼   ► and tried to grab the sandwich out of my hand.

01:17:02 ◼   ► These birds are out of control.

01:17:03 ◼   ► I don't know what has gotten into them,

01:17:04 ◼   ► but they don't, they're not afraid anymore,

01:17:07 ◼   ► and they're pooping on us, and they're stealing our food

01:17:09 ◼   ► out of our hands while we eat it.

01:17:12 ◼   ► - That's incredible.

01:17:13 ◼   ► - That is nuts.

01:17:14 ◼   ► - That does not happen here.

01:17:15 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, here we actually don't allow

01:17:18 ◼   ► eating on the beach because we have a very small,

01:17:20 ◼   ► very densely populated beach,

01:17:21 ◼   ► and that would cause too much litter.

01:17:23 ◼   ► - Wait, are you serious?

01:17:25 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:17:25 ◼   ► - What kind of--

01:17:27 ◼   ► - We have a very large volume of people

01:17:28 ◼   ► that come to a very small section of the beach,

01:17:31 ◼   ► and so we have a lot more rules

01:17:33 ◼   ► than most of the surrounding communities

01:17:34 ◼   ► because if we didn't, it would be ridiculous.

01:17:37 ◼   ► - So if you go to this beach,

01:17:42 ◼   ► you can't have lunch on the beach?

01:17:45 ◼   ► - Correct.

01:17:46 ◼   ► - That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life.

01:17:48 ◼   ► - And everyone tells us that.

01:17:49 ◼   ► But trust me, if you see the number of people

01:17:52 ◼   ► that come to a very small area, you would see why.

01:17:56 ◼   ► It makes sense when you see it,

01:17:58 ◼   ► but the idea of it angers everybody.

01:18:00 ◼   ► - I'll go on faith, but it's not making sense right now.

01:18:03 ◼   ► - One of the things they added at the beach that we go to

01:18:05 ◼   ► is they have little baskets.

01:18:06 ◼   ► They said, "Hey, if you wanna pick up litter on the beach,

01:18:07 ◼   ► "you can use one of these baskets."

01:18:09 ◼   ► In practice, I mean, maybe the people who run the beach,

01:18:12 ◼   ► the county or whatever, cleans up the beach,

01:18:13 ◼   ► but people are usually good about litter,

01:18:15 ◼   ► or good enough that you don't find litter on the beach

01:18:18 ◼   ► for the most part.

01:18:18 ◼   ► If you find anything, it's stuff that came from the ocean,

01:18:20 ◼   ► not stuff that was left on the beach,

01:18:21 ◼   ► but that's probably because they have a big staff

01:18:22 ◼   ► of people cleaning it up.

01:18:24 ◼   ► - As a, you know, I would suggest for your community,

01:18:27 ◼   ► not letting people eat is one way to do it.

01:18:29 ◼   ► Another way is to pay people to clean everything up.

01:18:31 ◼   ► I mean, probably why you don't have aggressive birds

01:18:33 ◼   ► is like, well, there's nothing here.

01:18:34 ◼   ► People don't have food.

01:18:35 ◼   ► - We have aggressive teenagers

01:18:37 ◼   ► who leave white claws everywhere,

01:18:38 ◼   ► but I think if the birds drank those,

01:18:39 ◼   ► it'd have different problems.

01:18:40 ◼   ► - Like this beach, there's nothing changed about this beach,

01:18:42 ◼   ► and it's not any different than any other

01:18:44 ◼   ► sort of south shore beach that I've been through

01:18:45 ◼   ► my whole life.

01:18:46 ◼   ► The birds are there, they go nuts if someone throws

01:18:48 ◼   ► them a potato chip or whatever, but this year,

01:18:50 ◼   ► this year they've just, they've, I don't know,

01:18:53 ◼   ► they've become more intelligent, the hive mind has,

01:18:56 ◼   ► you know, I put a link in the--

01:18:58 ◼   ► - It's funny, actually, what we do have is people will,

01:19:01 ◼   ► you know, they'll park their wagons or oftentimes

01:19:03 ◼   ► a baby stroller at the bottom of like the staircase

01:19:06 ◼   ► that goes up and over the dune, you know,

01:19:08 ◼   ► and we will often see deer eating whatever was left.

01:19:13 ◼   ► If they pack a lunch and it'll be in a stroller,

01:19:16 ◼   ► you'll see a deer eating out of a stroller,

01:19:18 ◼   ► which looks hilarious, and I can't even imagine

01:19:22 ◼   ► the people coming back to whatever mess that creates

01:19:25 ◼   ► where the deer just ate their sandwich

01:19:27 ◼   ► while they were at the beach.

01:19:28 ◼   ► - I got a deer photo this year too.

01:19:29 ◼   ► We don't see as many of them as you do, obviously,

01:19:31 ◼   ► on Firehound, but this was just on our beach.

01:19:34 ◼   ► It was just hanging out in the long lens.

01:19:36 ◼   ► let me reel it in.

01:19:38 ◼   ► We'll put it in the show notes to the picture.

01:19:41 ◼   ► So I put all these pictures of birds on my Instagram

01:19:44 ◼   ► and I also put a final sequence of birds

01:19:46 ◼   ► of saying let me show you what they're really up to,

01:19:48 ◼   ► which is stealing your food.

01:19:49 ◼   ► And so you can see in that one a picture of a bird

01:19:52 ◼   ► standing on someone's backpack about to get into it

01:19:54 ◼   ► and a bird pulling a bag of pistachios out of someone's bag.

01:19:56 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:19:58 ◼   ► Oh, and that other bird, the previous one,

01:19:59 ◼   ► the bird is like looking under a seat.

01:20:00 ◼   ► That's in our little circle.

01:20:01 ◼   ► They just walk right into the circle.

01:20:02 ◼   ► They're like, oh, there's no one in the seat.

01:20:03 ◼   ► Let me check under here.

01:20:04 ◼   ► There might be some potato chips.

01:20:06 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:20:07 ◼   ► - All right, we have a bit of a long after show

01:20:08 ◼   ► special this week, so we're gonna call it here.

01:20:11 ◼   ► Thanks everybody for listening.

01:20:13 ◼   ► Thanks to our sponsors, Trade Coffee,

01:20:15 ◼   ► Memberful, and Stack Overflow.

01:20:17 ◼   ► Thanks to our members who support us directly.

01:20:19 ◼   ► You can join us at ATP.FM/JOIN,

01:20:22 ◼   ► and we will talk to you next week.

01:20:24 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:20:27 ◼   ► ♪ Now the show is over ♪

01:20:29 ◼   ► ♪ They didn't even mean to begin ♪

01:20:32 ◼   ► ♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪

01:20:34 ◼   ► ♪ Accidental ♪

01:20:35 ◼   ► Oh it was accidental John didn't do any research

01:20:39 ◼   ► Marco and Casey wouldn't let him Cause it was accidental

01:20:44 ◼   ► It was accidental And you can find the show notes at ATP.FM

01:20:53 ◼   ► And if you're into Twitter You can follow them @C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

01:21:02 ◼   ► So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,

01:21:07 ◼   ► Auntie Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C, USA, Syracuse.

01:21:14 ◼   ► It's accidental.

01:21:15 ◼   ► It's accidental.

01:21:17 ◼   ► They didn't mean to.

01:21:19 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:21:20 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:21:22 ◼   ► Tech podcast so long.

01:21:28 ◼   ► I'm getting my driving permit for driving on the sand.

01:21:32 ◼   ► - The sand driving permit, that is very exciting.

01:21:35 ◼   ► I will confess that I knew this already,

01:21:37 ◼   ► but that is extremely exciting.

01:21:39 ◼   ► I'm very, very excited for you.

01:21:40 ◼   ► And so you will finally be able to use the FJ

01:21:44 ◼   ► as it has been intended.

01:21:46 ◼   ► - And this will make a massive difference

01:21:49 ◼   ► in the quality of my life

01:21:51 ◼   ► and the things we were able to do in the winter.

01:21:53 ◼   ► Because we live on Fire Island,

01:21:55 ◼   ► the only way to get here normally is by ferry.

01:21:58 ◼   ► The ferry does run in the winter,

01:22:00 ◼   ► but they only run like a few boats a day,

01:22:03 ◼   ► and it's such that you can go off island

01:22:07 ◼   ► to go shopping or go to the doctor or whatever

01:22:09 ◼   ► for either 90 minutes or eight hours,

01:22:12 ◼   ► and the way the schedule works,

01:22:14 ◼   ► and the last boat leaves the mainland

01:22:17 ◼   ► at like 4 p.m. or 3.30 p.m.

01:22:20 ◼   ► So you can't do anything off the island

01:22:23 ◼   ► that would take longer than 3.30 p.m.

01:22:27 ◼   ► otherwise you cannot get back to your house that night.

01:22:29 ◼   ► - Cool.

01:22:30 ◼   ► - So this year we will have the driving permit

01:22:34 ◼   ► and that makes so much difference

01:22:36 ◼   ► 'cause then you can just drive yourself off in the winter.

01:22:39 ◼   ► You can't drive in the summer 'cause it's full of people

01:22:41 ◼   ► and you don't need to

01:22:42 ◼   ► 'cause there's tons of ferries in the summer so it's fine.

01:22:44 ◼   ► But yeah, in the winter finally we will have this.

01:22:46 ◼   ► And this, I need to get glasses probably.

01:22:50 ◼   ► I have to go to the eye doctor

01:22:51 ◼   ► and I just, it's hard to do that.

01:22:54 ◼   ► Like there's so much stuff like that

01:22:55 ◼   ► that we've kind of been putting off

01:22:56 ◼   ► for the last couple of years,

01:22:57 ◼   ► 'cause it was very difficult to do year round.

01:23:00 ◼   ► So, oh man, I'm so, so happy.

01:23:03 ◼   ► - Okay, so to be clear, in the future,

01:23:05 ◼   ► you can take the FJ, and the problem is

01:23:08 ◼   ► is that the particular town you're in in Fire Island,

01:23:11 ◼   ► the streets, as you would call them,

01:23:13 ◼   ► are not really streets at all.

01:23:14 ◼   ► I mean, I guess you said, I've never been,

01:23:16 ◼   ► but my understanding is you maybe could put a car on it

01:23:19 ◼   ► if you really, really tried,

01:23:20 ◼   ► but it's certainly not meant for that,

01:23:21 ◼   ► whether or not it's legal.

01:23:22 ◼   ► And so the issue is that you have to drive on the sand

01:23:26 ◼   ► to get to the end of the regular car streets,

01:23:30 ◼   ► and then once you're on the car streets,

01:23:31 ◼   ► then you can go to like a bridge or a causeway

01:23:33 ◼   ► or what have you in order to get to the mainland.

01:23:35 ◼   ► Is that all fair?

01:23:36 ◼   ► - Pretty much, yeah.

01:23:37 ◼   ► I mean, there isn't even a road that has no sand

01:23:41 ◼   ► that goes the whole way, even if it wanted to.

01:23:43 ◼   ► There is, so the roads on Fire Island

01:23:45 ◼   ► are basically wide sidewalks,

01:23:47 ◼   ► and they are just wide enough that one car or truck

01:23:51 ◼   ► can fit down them.

01:23:52 ◼   ► And they're so narrow that if you're driving your car

01:23:55 ◼   ► or truck down them, your mirrors will be brushing

01:23:58 ◼   ► against everyone's bushes the whole way down.

01:24:00 ◼   ► Like that's how narrow it is.

01:24:01 ◼   ► It is exactly wide enough to fit a truck or a car

01:24:05 ◼   ► and that's it.

01:24:06 ◼   ► And so this has a number of challenges

01:24:08 ◼   ► when you're driving on these quote roads.

01:24:10 ◼   ► So one is obviously cars can't pass each other.

01:24:14 ◼   ► So if someone's coming the other way,

01:24:16 ◼   ► somebody has to like stop and back up into a side street

01:24:19 ◼   ► to let the other person pass.

01:24:22 ◼   ► So there's a lot of backing up around these corners

01:24:24 ◼   ► and everything, and you've got to have very good visibility.

01:24:27 ◼   ► You have to really know your vehicle.

01:24:29 ◼   ► It has to be hopefully as small of a footprint

01:24:31 ◼   ► as you can get it, while still being

01:24:33 ◼   ► able to have very good four-wheel drive

01:24:35 ◼   ► capability to go over the sand to get there

01:24:36 ◼   ► in the first place.

01:24:37 ◼   ► And there's a bunch of houses that all have landscaping

01:24:41 ◼   ► and stuff that butt right up against the walk sometimes.

01:24:44 ◼   ► And so you really have to be very careful.

01:24:46 ◼   ► It's a very slow, careful way of driving here.

01:24:51 ◼   ► And again, visibility, vehicle maneuverability,

01:24:55 ◼   ► and footprint are very important.

01:24:56 ◼   ► But everyone's driving trucks and SUVs

01:24:58 ◼   ► so they can actually get them here.

01:25:00 ◼   ► So that's the situation.

01:25:02 ◼   ► For me to drive off of the island,

01:25:05 ◼   ► I basically have to either drive this--

01:25:09 ◼   ► we call it the inland route, which

01:25:10 ◼   ► is through all the towns--

01:25:12 ◼   ► on all these very, very narrow walks.

01:25:13 ◼   ► Or I can drive a short distance on narrow walks

01:25:16 ◼   ► and then get myself onto the sand and drive about--

01:25:19 ◼   ► I think it's about three miles on the sand,

01:25:21 ◼   ► and then cut back in at the last minute

01:25:23 ◼   ► and go off onto a bridge or whatever.

01:25:24 ◼   ► - I didn't even think there was an inland route.

01:25:26 ◼   ► There's a way you could do this without going on the sand?

01:25:28 ◼   ► - It just has less sand.

01:25:30 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, you don't drive on the beach,

01:25:33 ◼   ► but you have to drive on the inland route,

01:25:34 ◼   ► and the inland road has a few sections in it

01:25:37 ◼   ► that are just extremely loose, like sugar sand,

01:25:40 ◼   ► which is very, it's even harder to drive on the beach.

01:25:43 ◼   ► So anyway, that situation.

01:25:45 ◼   ► So now that, it came in right at this time,

01:25:49 ◼   ► right between two school years,

01:25:50 ◼   ► and the amount of time that we are planning

01:25:52 ◼   ► on continuing to live here is measured in school years,

01:25:55 ◼   ► and it is going to be most likely

01:25:57 ◼   ► either one or two more school years.

01:26:00 ◼   ► So the timing of this was like, wait a minute.

01:26:03 ◼   ► If we now need a car for either one or two years

01:26:07 ◼   ► for this role, maybe I should trade in the FJ Cruiser

01:26:12 ◼   ► for something new that would be nicer for this purpose.

01:26:16 ◼   ► and I'll tell you some things that went into this decision.

01:26:19 ◼   ► - Wait, wait, before you go on from that,

01:26:21 ◼   ► why is it that there's a one or two year thing,

01:26:23 ◼   ► suddenly that means you need a new car?

01:26:25 ◼   ► Make this connection.

01:26:26 ◼   ► - Because it's Marco!

01:26:28 ◼   ► - I have two clear paths here.

01:26:29 ◼   ► Path number one, just keep the FJ Cruiser

01:26:32 ◼   ► and don't touch it.

01:26:33 ◼   ► Just don't change anything, keep what I have.

01:26:35 ◼   ► So there are some advantages.

01:26:37 ◼   ► Obviously that's the cheapest solution,

01:26:38 ◼   ► that is the least hassle.

01:26:39 ◼   ► And the advantage of owning something outright

01:26:42 ◼   ► as opposed to a lease or anything like that

01:26:44 ◼   ► is flexibility too.

01:26:46 ◼   ► I don't know exactly how long I'm going to need

01:26:48 ◼   ► or want this vehicle.

01:26:50 ◼   ► When I move back to civilization,

01:26:53 ◼   ► I'm probably not gonna wanna be driving an off-road SUV

01:26:56 ◼   ► as my main car, I won't need it really for that.

01:26:59 ◼   ► So I'm probably gonna need this car for two years,

01:27:01 ◼   ► that's the most likely term here.

01:27:03 ◼   ► - But you already have a car

01:27:04 ◼   ► that you could keep for exactly two years.

01:27:06 ◼   ► - Right.

01:27:07 ◼   ► - You already have it.

01:27:08 ◼   ► - Correct.

01:27:08 ◼   ► However, the long-term reliability of this car

01:27:11 ◼   ► is a big question mark because--

01:27:13 ◼   ► - Of a Toyota.

01:27:14 ◼   ► - Yes, well it has almost 100,000 miles

01:27:16 ◼   ► and it's been driven very hard on the beach

01:27:19 ◼   ► for all those miles.

01:27:20 ◼   ► Like the previous owner of this car

01:27:21 ◼   ► would drive it back and forth to the mainland

01:27:23 ◼   ► a few times a week at least.

01:27:25 ◼   ► That's a lot of mileage for sand miles,

01:27:27 ◼   ► 'cause you don't understand what this does to cars.

01:27:29 ◼   ► Like the underside all rusted out.

01:27:32 ◼   ► The frame, tons of rust everywhere.

01:27:35 ◼   ► I got a little concerned because the other FJ Cruisers

01:27:39 ◼   ► that have been on this island of similar vintage

01:27:41 ◼   ► have been dropping like flies in the last year.

01:27:43 ◼   ► They've been being replaced because

01:27:45 ◼   ► they keep rusting out in critical frame ways.

01:27:48 ◼   ► And when that happens, your trade-in value

01:27:50 ◼   ► goes through the floor, and it's a big pain in the butt,

01:27:52 ◼   ► et cetera, so anyway.

01:27:53 ◼   ► So that's one factor, is I'm a little concerned

01:27:56 ◼   ► about reliability for two years of regular use in this way.

01:28:00 ◼   ► Also, I mentioned the maneuverability and stuff

01:28:03 ◼   ► around the town.

01:28:04 ◼   ► The visibility in the FJ Cruiser is horrendous.

01:28:07 ◼   ► It's really bad visibility for a couple of reasons.

01:28:11 ◼   ► Mainly, it has those wide body color C pillars, I guess,

01:28:17 ◼   ► would they be?

01:28:18 ◼   ► Or B pillars?

01:28:19 ◼   ► Whatever they are.

01:28:20 ◼   ► It has these big blind spot blockages in its frame design.

01:28:24 ◼   ► And also, while it has a backup camera,

01:28:28 ◼   ► as I mentioned when I got it, it's

01:28:30 ◼   ► the tiny little display in the rear view mirror

01:28:33 ◼   ► that has the approximate resolution of a QuickTime

01:28:35 ◼   ► video in 1996.

01:28:37 ◼   ► It is very small and low resolution,

01:28:40 ◼   ► and you can't see crap at night.

01:28:41 ◼   ► So one thing I thought was, okay,

01:28:43 ◼   ► maybe I just keep the FJ and install a new CarPlay radio

01:28:47 ◼   ► with an aftermarket backup camera

01:28:49 ◼   ► that has a nice new backup camera.

01:28:50 ◼   ► So that's one option I could do.

01:28:52 ◼   ► But visibility in general in the car,

01:28:54 ◼   ► that's something that's harder to change.

01:28:56 ◼   ► There is a lot of, as I mentioned,

01:28:58 ◼   ► a lot of undercarriage wear and rust,

01:29:01 ◼   ► and so much, when I went to install the license plate,

01:29:05 ◼   ► the license plate mount is all rusted out,

01:29:07 ◼   ► so I had to go buy my own license plate mount,

01:29:09 ◼   ► screw it on with some screws into something that might work.

01:29:13 ◼   ► I got a tow hitch shackle so I could be pulled out

01:29:17 ◼   ► if I had to.

01:29:18 ◼   ► I tried to remove that tow hitch shackle recently

01:29:19 ◼   ► and I just can't.

01:29:20 ◼   ► It's the new piece of metal that I put into the old

01:29:24 ◼   ► tow hitch receiver is now rusted into it.

01:29:26 ◼   ► - Cool.

01:29:27 ◼   ► - So the amount of rust that I'm hitting here

01:29:30 ◼   ► is substantial.

01:29:32 ◼   ► Also, driving the FJ Cruiser, there are certain things

01:29:36 ◼   ► about there that are convenient.

01:29:37 ◼   ► It has all these nice old style controls.

01:29:40 ◼   ► Everything's all manual.

01:29:42 ◼   ► But that's also a downside in the sense

01:29:43 ◼   ► that it lacks a lot of modern things

01:29:45 ◼   ► that I am accustomed to that I really miss when I don't have

01:29:48 ◼   ► them.

01:29:49 ◼   ► So one thing, Bluetooth.

01:29:50 ◼   ► It has Bluetooth, but it's very limited.

01:29:53 ◼   ► And I found it to be very unreliable.

01:29:55 ◼   ► It doesn't have modern conveniences like proximity keys.

01:29:58 ◼   ► Climate control.

01:29:59 ◼   ► I like having big manual knobs when

01:30:01 ◼   ► I want to just think manually.

01:30:02 ◼   ► But I hate having to then constantly tweak, all right,

01:30:05 ◼   ► wait, turn the temperature up a little bit.

01:30:06 ◼   ► Wait, turn it.

01:30:06 ◼   ► Turn the fan speed down a little bit.

01:30:09 ◼   ► I know I did this forever when I was learning

01:30:11 ◼   ► how to drive on older, regular cars for my entire youth,

01:30:14 ◼   ► but I also know that now climate control is nice.

01:30:18 ◼   ► It's one less thing to worry about.

01:30:20 ◼   ► Automatic headlights, great feature.

01:30:23 ◼   ► And I have it on the Tesla, so that's fine.

01:30:26 ◼   ► Having to turn on and off the headlights manually,

01:30:27 ◼   ► it's like one more thing I have to now think about

01:30:30 ◼   ► and possibly fail at some point to do.

01:30:32 ◼   ► Other things that I've gotten used to,

01:30:33 ◼   ► a speed limit display on the dash.

01:30:37 ◼   ► Like, you know, the car is using some kind of camera

01:30:39 ◼   ► to recognize speed limit signs,

01:30:41 ◼   ► and displaying the speed limit on the dash.

01:30:43 ◼   ► I love this feature,

01:30:44 ◼   ► because I don't have to keep a lookout

01:30:46 ◼   ► for the signs constantly.

01:30:48 ◼   ► If I happen to miss one, and I wonder,

01:30:50 ◼   ► hey, am I going to speed limit,

01:30:51 ◼   ► I can just glance down,

01:30:52 ◼   ► and it's right there on the display.

01:30:53 ◼   ► That's a nice feature.

01:30:54 ◼   ► I'm now accustomed to that.

01:30:55 ◼   ► I know I could drive without it.

01:30:56 ◼   ► I have, I mean, with the FJ, I've driven without it,

01:30:58 ◼   ► but it sucks to drive without it once you're used to it.

01:31:01 ◼   ► The brake hold, where you push the brake to stop the car,

01:31:05 ◼   ► and then when you're stopped, you can let go of the brake

01:31:07 ◼   ► and the car holds itself there.

01:31:09 ◼   ► I love that feature in the Tesla

01:31:11 ◼   ► and many other modern nice cars.

01:31:13 ◼   ► I really love that feature.

01:31:14 ◼   ► And of course, the F8 doesn't have it,

01:31:16 ◼   ► so it makes it feel more like an automatic

01:31:17 ◼   ► where as soon as you lift off the brakes slightly,

01:31:19 ◼   ► you start creeping forward pretty quickly, actually,

01:31:21 ◼   ► and it's like, "Whoa, wait, hold on, I don't wanna go yet!"

01:31:23 ◼   ► And then other modern safety features

01:31:24 ◼   ► like the little blind spot warning lights

01:31:26 ◼   ► on rear view, or on side view mirrors, rather.

01:31:29 ◼   ► Stuff like that, I like that kind of stuff.

01:31:31 ◼   ► I like having modern safety features.

01:31:33 ◼   ► And then finally, obviously carplay would be nice to have.

01:31:37 ◼   ► It could be added aftermarket though,

01:31:38 ◼   ► so that's not this thing.

01:31:40 ◼   ► But other factors that played into my decision here.

01:31:43 ◼   ► The parking situation has proven to be more burdensome

01:31:48 ◼   ► than I expected because the ferry lot,

01:31:50 ◼   ► we have to pay for permits and they're very expensive

01:31:53 ◼   ► and so it's not really worth paying for two permits

01:31:56 ◼   ► to park two vehicles and then having to move two vehicles,

01:31:59 ◼   ► have to shuffle them around and everything.

01:32:01 ◼   ► Ideally, I would love a car that one vehicle

01:32:05 ◼   ► could just be my car to be four wheel drive

01:32:08 ◼   ► and be able to drive back and forth

01:32:11 ◼   ► from Westchester to the ferry.

01:32:12 ◼   ► And the FJ, the amount of rust and wear and tear

01:32:17 ◼   ► on this car, I don't think I would trust it

01:32:20 ◼   ► to be reliable in that role,

01:32:22 ◼   ► to be doing those long distance drives

01:32:24 ◼   ► as well as the four wheel drive stuff.

01:32:26 ◼   ► Not to mention, I would miss all that modern tech

01:32:28 ◼   ► and the comfort of market automobiles.

01:32:31 ◼   ► But what finally kind of pushed me to look at something else

01:32:34 ◼   ► is that I made the mistake of looking up what it's worth.

01:32:39 ◼   ► - Oh no.

01:32:41 ◼   ► - And the FJ Cruiser is worth more than I paid for it.

01:32:45 ◼   ► - Oh my gosh.

01:32:46 ◼   ► You bought it like six months ago, right?

01:32:47 ◼   ► Or a year ago at most?

01:32:48 ◼   ► - I got it like last, I think last November,

01:32:51 ◼   ► so almost a year ago.

01:32:52 ◼   ► But after less than a year,

01:32:55 ◼   ► it is worth more than I paid for it

01:32:57 ◼   ► and more enough to even cover things like

01:33:01 ◼   ► that I had to pay the sales tax to register it

01:33:02 ◼   ► and all that other stuff, it even covers all that.

01:33:05 ◼   ► It's worth a lot more.

01:33:07 ◼   ► - I'm sure that motivates you,

01:33:08 ◼   ► but as we get to the later part of this segment here,

01:33:11 ◼   ► I'm going to say that in no way does getting rid of the FJ

01:33:14 ◼   ► result in you eventually saving money, as we will see.

01:33:18 ◼   ► - No, of course not.

01:33:19 ◼   ► I mean, none of these options, but--

01:33:21 ◼   ► - This is very much like, I mean,

01:33:22 ◼   ► for people who are long-time listeners of the program,

01:33:25 ◼   ► Marco often does this with Max.

01:33:27 ◼   ► he will get a Mac that he thinks is going to be the Mac

01:33:29 ◼   ► that is going to serve his needs.

01:33:30 ◼   ► But then three months later, he'll be like,

01:33:32 ◼   ► you know what, I got this Mac expecting X and Y,

01:33:34 ◼   ► but really Z, and so he sells it and gets a different Mac.

01:33:37 ◼   ► This is exactly like that, but much bigger.

01:33:39 ◼   ► - Yes, that is a perfect analogy.

01:33:41 ◼   ► - Well, and yeah, no part of this is about,

01:33:43 ◼   ► I'm not pretending like I'm gonna save money

01:33:47 ◼   ► by getting a new car.

01:33:48 ◼   ► No, it's more like I have this car that I quote,

01:33:52 ◼   ► just bought, really, but it is now worth so much more

01:33:56 ◼   ► than what I paid for, that I can kind of see that as like,

01:33:59 ◼   ► okay, I can keep this, or I can basically use it

01:34:01 ◼   ► as a credit towards something else.

01:34:04 ◼   ► - Hopefully whoever you sell it to doesn't hear the part

01:34:06 ◼   ► where about all the rust underneath.

01:34:08 ◼   ► - Well, I'm thinking it's gonna be pretty visually obvious

01:34:10 ◼   ► if they even take a cursory look.

01:34:12 ◼   ► - Oh, it's on the underside, maybe they don't check.

01:34:13 ◼   ► - You can't miss, no, you can see it from the side.

01:34:15 ◼   ► Like, you can't miss it.

01:34:17 ◼   ► - When you're driving it, can you see the road below you?

01:34:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, right?

01:34:21 ◼   ► - Not yet, but it wouldn't surprise me.

01:34:24 ◼   ► So Marco, at this point you've decided in a very Marco way that you would like to solve a problem

01:34:30 ◼   ► that may or may not even be a problem in the first place by throwing money at it. So welcome new

01:34:35 ◼   ► listeners. This is the same as it ever was. But anyway, so you want a car that you said has great

01:34:43 ◼   ► visibility. It's easy to know the edges of the car and it's very good on SAM. So what you're saying

01:34:51 ◼   ► is you want something that's got very very short overhangs.

01:34:55 ◼   ► Uh, you, I think you left out one item there from the bullet list which is comfortable

01:35:00 ◼   ► to drive back and forth.

01:35:01 ◼   ► So like I said, you want a car that has short overhangs, you want a car that has short overhangs

01:35:07 ◼   ► that is extremely capable off-road and can do both of those things reasonably well.

01:35:14 ◼   ► So what you're saying is you want a Wrangler.

01:35:17 ◼   ► So I decided, I did some research and I asked some friends, I'm like, "Hey, what should

01:35:21 ◼   ► I be looking at here?" and watched a bunch of YouTube car reviews and off-road tests

01:35:25 ◼   ► and everything like that.

01:35:27 ◼   ► What I came to was a short list.

01:35:30 ◼   ► I wanted to look at the Toyota 4Runner, the Jeep Wrangler, and in particular the 4xe,

01:35:36 ◼   ► the plug-in hybrid Jeep Wrangler, and the Land Rover Defender.

01:35:40 ◼   ► I will say, towards the end, I was tipped off I should look at the Ford Bronco.

01:35:45 ◼   ► came kind of too late for me to plan to see it but but based on based on reviews

01:35:49 ◼   ► because like I knew the Bronco was just about it. -Towards the end we've been yelling

01:35:51 ◼   ► Bronco at you for like a month. -I was about to say we've been saying this both

01:35:55 ◼   ► of us have been saying this. -But you were ignoring us. -I know I get it. -Well and I also I thought based on just not listening

01:36:00 ◼   ► very closely I guess I thought they were like impossible to get. -I thought that

01:36:04 ◼   ► was I thought that was true too in your defense and that it does not seem to be

01:36:07 ◼   ► true but I also thought that they were hard to come by. -Yeah I should also say I

01:36:11 ◼   ► I have been on the wait list for a Rivian for a while now.

01:36:15 ◼   ► My current estimated delivery for the,

01:36:18 ◼   ► and I'm looking particularly at the R1S, the SUV model,

01:36:22 ◼   ► 'cause if you want an R1T and you're willing

01:36:24 ◼   ► to pay a premium, there's a whole bunch of them

01:36:26 ◼   ► for sale nationwide now, like people who are flipping them.

01:36:29 ◼   ► And you can get a lightly used Rivian truck model,

01:36:32 ◼   ► the R1T, for a lot of money, but you can get it.

01:36:37 ◼   ► The R1S, the SUV, seems like it is just barely

01:36:41 ◼   ► starting to be trickled out and there are currently none for sale anywhere as far as

01:36:45 ◼   ► I can find.

01:36:47 ◼   ► So my reservation would hold which was like a year from now which is like well I probably

01:36:51 ◼   ► at that point I'm not even going to really need this car that much after one more year

01:36:56 ◼   ► so that's probably not a good option.

01:37:00 ◼   ► Also I mean that's a lot.

01:37:02 ◼   ► That's even more money than everything else I'm looking at.

01:37:05 ◼   ► So anyway, we had this kind of break in the summer

01:37:09 ◼   ► between summer camp for Adam

01:37:11 ◼   ► and this other thing he was doing.

01:37:13 ◼   ► And so we kind of had nothing to do for a week.

01:37:14 ◼   ► And I'm like, wouldn't it be fun

01:37:15 ◼   ► to take my kid for car shopping?

01:37:18 ◼   ► 'Cause I know when I was a kid,

01:37:20 ◼   ► I think we only got two cars in my entire childhood.

01:37:24 ◼   ► But I loved the shopping process.

01:37:27 ◼   ► Like it was so much fun for me to go.

01:37:29 ◼   ► And whenever anyone else,

01:37:31 ◼   ► whenever family friends would buy cars,

01:37:33 ◼   ► I'd wanna go with them to their car buying experiences.

01:37:36 ◼   ► 'Cause it's just fun, you know?

01:37:37 ◼   ► And I wasn't sure if Adam would like it or not.

01:37:40 ◼   ► So he's 10, so that's like right at the age

01:37:42 ◼   ► where I think you start thinking this stuff is cool.

01:37:44 ◼   ► So anyway, I decided, all right, we're gonna go off.

01:37:46 ◼   ► I plan this whole trip, we're gonna go off

01:37:48 ◼   ► and go to Toyota, Jeep, Land Rover, drive all three,

01:37:51 ◼   ► and I'm gonna have Adam actually rank them as well

01:37:54 ◼   ► to see what he thinks.

01:37:55 ◼   ► 'Cause I never sit in the backseat.

01:37:57 ◼   ► I don't know what's important for backseat passengers

01:38:00 ◼   ► the way he does, and he had a lot of fun doing it.

01:38:03 ◼   ► And so he developed a 25 point review scale for the cars.

01:38:07 ◼   ► - Oh my god.

01:38:09 ◼   ► - There were 10 points allocated for what he first called

01:38:12 ◼   ► comfortability, I later taught him the word comfort,

01:38:15 ◼   ► and that's the word I'm looking for, so he corrected it.

01:38:18 ◼   ► So 10 points for rear seat comfort,

01:38:21 ◼   ► 10 points for rear seat visibility,

01:38:24 ◼   ► and five points for smell.

01:38:27 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:38:29 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:38:30 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:38:31 ◼   ► - He also ranked the dealers themselves,

01:38:34 ◼   ► separately from the vehicles.

01:38:35 ◼   ► He didn't have a point scale for the dealers themselves,

01:38:38 ◼   ► but he wanted to rank things like,

01:38:40 ◼   ► how comfortable are the chairs that he was forced to sit in

01:38:43 ◼   ► while I was talking to the salespeople?

01:38:45 ◼   ► One of the, so we first went to Toyota,

01:38:48 ◼   ► because I thought the 4Runner

01:38:49 ◼   ► was the most likely thing I would pick.

01:38:52 ◼   ► - I maintain, I still think, leaving aside the fact,

01:38:57 ◼   ► which is a big aside, and I'm coming back to it,

01:38:59 ◼   ► Leaving aside the fact that the on-road manners of a Jeep Wrangler are not stupendous, I will

01:39:03 ◼   ► concede that.

01:39:04 ◼   ► I still think, all things considered, the Wrangler is the best option.

01:39:09 ◼   ► And for the purposes of the show, if nothing else, if you somehow end up with a freaking

01:39:14 ◼   ► Wrangler and I don't, that would be amazing.

01:39:19 ◼   ► And so I stand by.

01:39:20 ◼   ► I think the Wrangler is the most correct answer.

01:39:24 ◼   ► I think, however, that if you do any of these terrible ideas, and the Wrangler is also a

01:39:28 ◼   ► a terrible idea in its own way.

01:39:30 ◼   ► I think you're going to end up in the Defender

01:39:33 ◼   ► because it is the most Marco answer possible.

01:39:36 ◼   ► With that said, John, I would like your opinion,

01:39:38 ◼   ► and then please, I would like the blow-by-blow

01:39:40 ◼   ► in excruciating detail of all these visitors.

01:39:42 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, I am against the Wrangler for many reasons,

01:39:44 ◼   ► and now, when I'm thinking about the comfortability score

01:39:47 ◼   ► of that Wrangler, it's not looking good.

01:39:50 ◼   ► I really don't think those back seats

01:39:52 ◼   ► are gonna be Adam pleasing.

01:39:54 ◼   ► I would lobby for, excluding the comfort of the chair,

01:39:58 ◼   ► Adam had to sit in while you talked to the dealer

01:39:59 ◼   ► from your decision making matrix.

01:40:02 ◼   ► - Fair enough.

01:40:03 ◼   ► And also, I've been not massively drawn to Wranglers so far,

01:40:08 ◼   ► but the 4xe, being a plug-in hybrid

01:40:11 ◼   ► with like a 20 mile battery only range,

01:40:13 ◼   ► and by all accounts a very good plug-in hybrid,

01:40:16 ◼   ► that really got my attention.

01:40:17 ◼   ► And that's why I started looking at Jeep again,

01:40:19 ◼   ► because I love electric so much,

01:40:22 ◼   ► that is the only even electric-ish off-road option

01:40:26 ◼   ► besides Rivian.

01:40:27 ◼   ► And therefore, it's the only electric-ish option

01:40:29 ◼   ► you can get for a nice off-road vehicle

01:40:32 ◼   ► that you can actually buy today,

01:40:34 ◼   ► that's actually available to buy.

01:40:36 ◼   ► So that's what got me looking at it.

01:40:38 ◼   ► But I admit, I had low expectations of the rest of it,

01:40:41 ◼   ► but I thought electric is really compelling to me,

01:40:44 ◼   ► so let me give that a really good look.

01:40:47 ◼   ► - And before people send things in,

01:40:48 ◼   ► there are a lot of electric SUVs,

01:40:51 ◼   ► it's just that the offer demands,

01:40:52 ◼   ► or at least according to Marco's criteria,

01:40:54 ◼   ► We need more than something like the Solterra from Subaru

01:40:58 ◼   ► and the Toyota Twin to that.

01:41:00 ◼   ► There's lots of small SUVs that are full electric,

01:41:02 ◼   ► or even something like the Mustang Mach-E

01:41:05 ◼   ► that are basically tall wagons.

01:41:06 ◼   ► Those apparently don't have the off-road chops

01:41:10 ◼   ► to do what needs to be done.

01:41:11 ◼   ► Only the Rivian and something like a true dedicated

01:41:13 ◼   ► off-road thing like a Wrangler or a Defender,

01:41:15 ◼   ► a 4Runner or something can handle the sand.

01:41:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, those vehicles really,

01:41:19 ◼   ► they mostly lack in ground clearance.

01:41:22 ◼   ► That's what really kills them.

01:41:24 ◼   ► I wonder if an F-150 Lightning would have done the trick,

01:41:27 ◼   ► but I don't think you can get your hands on one.

01:41:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, trucks would, for sure.

01:41:30 ◼   ► Most people out here drive either these off-roaders

01:41:33 ◼   ► or very large SUVs or trucks.

01:41:36 ◼   ► But I didn't wanna drive a truck.

01:41:38 ◼   ► They're a little bit longer,

01:41:39 ◼   ► which I think makes the maneuverability

01:41:40 ◼   ► a little bit more difficult on these streets,

01:41:42 ◼   ► especially for a truck novice like me.

01:41:45 ◼   ► And also, that's not the kind of cargo allotment that I want.

01:41:49 ◼   ► Because I wanted this to be able to go back and forth

01:41:51 ◼   ► to Westchester, it needs to hold a lot, too.

01:41:53 ◼   ► and trucks can hold a lot in the bed

01:41:56 ◼   ► unless it's raining or snowing

01:41:57 ◼   ► and then you get the covers and all this other,

01:41:59 ◼   ► and I didn't want to deal with any of that.

01:42:01 ◼   ► I just wanted a large vehicle, that's fine.

01:42:03 ◼   ► Anyway.

01:42:04 ◼   ► - Also, I think it's hard to get lightning still.

01:42:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree, I agree.

01:42:06 ◼   ► - I would expect that to be very difficult.

01:42:08 ◼   ► I didn't even look, but yeah, I expect that.

01:42:10 ◼   ► Anyway, so first went to Toyota

01:42:13 ◼   ► because everyone here,

01:42:16 ◼   ► all the year-round residents here who had FJ Cruisers

01:42:19 ◼   ► have replaced them with either 4Runners or Wranglers.

01:42:23 ◼   ► So I figure, all right, the 4Runner-- and the 4Runner,

01:42:25 ◼   ► you know, as soon as you see one,

01:42:26 ◼   ► if you do any research at all or if you see both vehicles,

01:42:28 ◼   ► it's clear that the 4Runner is like--

01:42:30 ◼   ► it has taken up the crown of the FJ Cruiser.

01:42:33 ◼   ► I know I probably existed at the same time, but you know,

01:42:35 ◼   ► it is clearly like this is like the same kind of vehicle

01:42:38 ◼   ► with many of the same kinds of appeal.

01:42:40 ◼   ► OK, so Toyota, you know, the dealer was very convenient.

01:42:44 ◼   ► It's in a great location, giant dealer.

01:42:46 ◼   ► Adam said it was the best chair he ever sat in up to that point.

01:42:50 ◼   ► However, buying a car in mid-2022 is not normal.

01:42:55 ◼   ► Obviously we are in the midst of a supply chain crunch

01:42:59 ◼   ► with the world, and cars in particular

01:43:02 ◼   ► have gotten very hard hit.

01:43:03 ◼   ► And so, to give you some example of the situation,

01:43:06 ◼   ► the Toyota dealership, the dealer website,

01:43:08 ◼   ► listed they had 16 new 4Runners in inventory.

01:43:13 ◼   ► When I got there, they had zero.

01:43:15 ◼   ► - What?

01:43:16 ◼   ► - Also, every new 4Runner they have

01:43:19 ◼   ► has a $7,000 quote dealer adjustment added to the price.

01:43:24 ◼   ► - Oh my gosh, get out of here with that.

01:43:26 ◼   ► - So.

01:43:27 ◼   ► - So you didn't spend very long in Toyota then.

01:43:29 ◼   ► - Well they did have a couple of used ones

01:43:31 ◼   ► that were like a couple of years old

01:43:32 ◼   ► and the thing about the 4Runner is that it basically

01:43:35 ◼   ► has not changed in like 10 years or something.

01:43:38 ◼   ► It's been a long time.

01:43:39 ◼   ► It's a very like old model line that is waiting

01:43:44 ◼   ► for an upgrade that is supposed to be updated

01:43:46 ◼   ► I think next year, but the current one is very old.

01:43:50 ◼   ► - It's also very ugly, what happened to the 4Runner?

01:43:52 ◼   ► I remember it back from when I was a kid,

01:43:54 ◼   ► it did not look this ugly.

01:43:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, but anyway, so I did get to drive a 20,

01:43:59 ◼   ► I think it was a 2020 model, it was a couple years old,

01:44:02 ◼   ► and there aren't really major differences between that

01:44:04 ◼   ► and the new ones, except the new ones have

01:44:06 ◼   ► a slightly bigger media screen,

01:44:09 ◼   ► and they have a nice side camera view,

01:44:13 ◼   ► which I really like a lot, and I wish I got to see it,

01:44:15 ◼   ► but I couldn't.

01:44:16 ◼   ► Compared to the vehicles I was looking at,

01:44:18 ◼   ► the 4Runner is the cheapest, but this is, again,

01:44:21 ◼   ► this is relative and this is with today's market.

01:44:23 ◼   ► The off-road premium model that I'd be looking at

01:44:26 ◼   ► as a minimum would be like $56,000 with the dealer markup.

01:44:31 ◼   ► - Good grief.

01:44:32 ◼   ► - But keep in mind, I have a very highly valued trade-in.

01:44:35 ◼   ► And by the way, not only is the FJ Cruiser worth a lot,

01:44:37 ◼   ► they want it.

01:44:39 ◼   ► It's a rare car that people love and it's in high demand.

01:44:42 ◼   ► They know that they can flip it instantly.

01:44:44 ◼   ► So anyway, I show up at that thing

01:44:46 ◼   ► and I got a lot of salesperson attention.

01:44:47 ◼   ► Hey, what can we get you into today?

01:44:49 ◼   ► But you know, the 4Runner,

01:44:51 ◼   ► it has the worst colors of all the bunch.

01:44:54 ◼   ► It is the oldest looking.

01:44:55 ◼   ► It is the most boring looking.

01:44:57 ◼   ► The interior is exactly what you'd expect from a Toyota.

01:45:00 ◼   ► It is ultra fine.

01:45:03 ◼   ► - I know those feels.

01:45:05 ◼   ► - It is functional and it is totally forgettable.

01:45:08 ◼   ► That being said, it had the biggest trunk space

01:45:10 ◼   ► that I saw that day by a lot.

01:45:12 ◼   ► It has a very big trunk.

01:45:13 ◼   ► Driving felt a lot like the FJ Cruiser, but bigger.

01:45:16 ◼   ► It feels like you're driving a giant box,

01:45:18 ◼   ► and that is not a great thing. (laughs)

01:45:21 ◼   ► Visibility is okay, not great.

01:45:24 ◼   ► Backup camera and screen are still very old,

01:45:27 ◼   ► low resolution, as I mentioned,

01:45:29 ◼   ► the modern ones are improved, but not massively so.

01:45:31 ◼   ► And it has, because it's such an old platform,

01:45:34 ◼   ► it has an old engine and a five-speed automatic transmission

01:45:36 ◼   ► and that really, they really hold it back

01:45:38 ◼   ► and they make it feel old.

01:45:39 ◼   ► Like, when you step on the gas and it has to wait,

01:45:42 ◼   ► wait, wait, and then upshift to this very different gear

01:45:46 ◼   ► from the one it was in, you kind of feel like,

01:45:48 ◼   ► okay, now I understand why these eight

01:45:51 ◼   ► and 10-speed automatic transmissions are better

01:45:52 ◼   ► than the old five-speed ones,

01:45:54 ◼   ► 'cause you have a lot more gears in the middle

01:45:55 ◼   ► that it can shift to and be more responsive

01:45:58 ◼   ► and more efficient and everything.

01:45:59 ◼   ► But ultimately, the 4Runner didn't make me feel excited

01:46:03 ◼   ► because it felt like an old car being sold as new.

01:46:07 ◼   ► It's like if you bought one of the non-Retina MacBook Airs

01:46:10 ◼   ► brand new in like 2018.

01:46:13 ◼   ► Like it felt like that.

01:46:14 ◼   ► Like overall, I came out of the 4Runner experience

01:46:18 ◼   ► thinking like, okay, I'm probably gonna end up buying this,

01:46:21 ◼   ► but I'm not excited about it.

01:46:22 ◼   ► This is a vehicle, it serves a function,

01:46:24 ◼   ► it will take me where I'm going, and I will feel nothing.

01:46:27 ◼   ► That's the function this vehicle serves.

01:46:30 ◼   ► - So it's a Toyota.

01:46:31 ◼   ► It gets you where you're going

01:46:32 ◼   ► and you feel nothing along the way.

01:46:34 ◼   ► - Exactly.

01:46:34 ◼   ► Then we went over to Jeep.

01:46:36 ◼   ► I wanted to drive the 4xe.

01:46:37 ◼   ► So the Jeep, the dealer, it was not a great,

01:46:40 ◼   ► It was like this terrible location.

01:46:42 ◼   ► Adam did appreciate that it had balloons

01:46:45 ◼   ► inside the dealer room.

01:46:47 ◼   ► Everything was like all red, white, and blue,

01:46:49 ◼   ► flag balloons, it was super over the top with yeah, America.

01:46:53 ◼   ► He rated the chairs as medium.

01:46:55 ◼   ► The dealer listed that they had eight new Wrangler

01:46:58 ◼   ► four by e's in inventory.

01:47:00 ◼   ► They had one.

01:47:02 ◼   ► - That's better than zero. - Yes.

01:47:03 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:47:04 ◼   ► And they seemed to be selling it for MSRP.

01:47:07 ◼   ► So not adding on weird things to the price.

01:47:09 ◼   ► - All so impressive.

01:47:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, very.

01:47:11 ◼   ► So we went out for a test drive.

01:47:13 ◼   ► The battery was totally dead.

01:47:15 ◼   ► - There's a surprise, of course.

01:47:17 ◼   ► - Great dealer, guys, great, good job.

01:47:19 ◼   ► You're selling an electric car, you don't plug it in.

01:47:21 ◼   ► Thanks a lot.

01:47:21 ◼   ► So I could not test any electric driving at all.

01:47:25 ◼   ► I've watched enough reviews and stuff

01:47:27 ◼   ► that I knew they have these different modes.

01:47:29 ◼   ► You can push this button on the side

01:47:30 ◼   ► for electric only or hybrid or this thing called eSave

01:47:33 ◼   ► where it basically won't use the battery at all

01:47:35 ◼   ► but will charge it as much as possible

01:47:36 ◼   ► with like, regen braking and stuff like that.

01:47:38 ◼   ► So I did the whole test drive in e-save mode

01:47:40 ◼   ► and did a lot of intentional speed up

01:47:43 ◼   ► and then let it regen break for a little while.

01:47:44 ◼   ► And then speed up and just doing a lot of regen

01:47:46 ◼   ► hoping that I could at least at the end of the drive

01:47:48 ◼   ► get a little bit of electric anything.

01:47:50 ◼   ► - Yep, yep, yep, yep.

01:47:51 ◼   ► - I got no electric experience at all.

01:47:54 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:47:55 ◼   ► And this is the only one they had

01:47:56 ◼   ► and I'm not gonna sit there all day

01:47:58 ◼   ► waiting for them to try to charge it.

01:47:59 ◼   ► You know, I have a 10 year old

01:48:00 ◼   ► and I have other stuff to do, so you know.

01:48:02 ◼   ► But I will say, so, and the Wrangler,

01:48:05 ◼   ► this is, for a decent 4xe,

01:48:07 ◼   ► we're looking at like $70,000.

01:48:09 ◼   ► This is not--

01:48:10 ◼   ► - Which, just real quick,

01:48:11 ◼   ► Wranglers are absurdly expensive.

01:48:14 ◼   ► Like I understand they hold their value, blah, blah, blah.

01:48:16 ◼   ► But they are ridiculously expensive.

01:48:20 ◼   ► Part of the reason I'm in a Golf R right now

01:48:21 ◼   ► and not a Wrangler is because I've started

01:48:23 ◼   ► pricing out Wranglers and even getting like a beater Wrangler

01:48:26 ◼   ► and optioning it with what I consider to be

01:48:28 ◼   ► the bare minimum amount of options,

01:48:30 ◼   ► this is what, three, four years ago now,

01:48:31 ◼   ► it was still like 50, $55,000 four years ago.

01:48:35 ◼   ► They are so expensive, it's preposterous

01:48:38 ◼   ► that you could spend $70,000 on a Wrangler

01:48:40 ◼   ► and not even blink an eye.

01:48:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, and again, and cars in general right now

01:48:43 ◼   ► are very expensive, but the Wrangler, you're right,

01:48:45 ◼   ► the Wrangler's kind of always been like this.

01:48:48 ◼   ► But I will say, so it was, it kind of surprised me, actually.

01:48:51 ◼   ► I'd never actually driven a Jeep before.

01:48:53 ◼   ► It was much smaller inside than the others.

01:48:57 ◼   ► Now it's interesting, it's not that much smaller outside.

01:49:00 ◼   ► They're big vehicles.

01:49:03 ◼   ► They are full-sized SUVs, basically,

01:49:06 ◼   ► between the Forerunner, the Wrangler, and the Defender.

01:49:08 ◼   ► They're all about the same size.

01:49:09 ◼   ► They're within a couple of inches here and there,

01:49:11 ◼   ► but they're all approximately the same size.

01:49:13 ◼   ► So anyway, it was very cramped inside,

01:49:16 ◼   ► 'cause the Jeep, it kinda flares out the body

01:49:19 ◼   ► from the doors and everything,

01:49:20 ◼   ► and so the inside's kind of like,

01:49:22 ◼   ► it's like somebody applied padding or a margin.

01:49:25 ◼   ► They inset the whole inside compared to the footprint.

01:49:28 ◼   ► So you have a lot less space in the Wrangler than the others.

01:49:32 ◼   ► both the trunk space, and I hated the way the trunk opens

01:49:35 ◼   ► where you have to like pull the bottom out

01:49:37 ◼   ► and then lift the glass up, 'cause like, that's not,

01:49:40 ◼   ► that, I did not like that at all.

01:49:42 ◼   ► But everything is cramped in the Jeep.

01:49:44 ◼   ► Even the controls are cramped,

01:49:45 ◼   ► because since you can remove the doors,

01:49:48 ◼   ► they don't put any controls on the doors.

01:49:50 ◼   ► So everything is just shoved into the middle

01:49:52 ◼   ► in this giant, this wall of like switches.

01:49:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's fair, that's fair.

01:49:56 ◼   ► But at least you have switches, I mean,

01:49:57 ◼   ► it's more than we can say for your damn Tesla.

01:49:58 ◼   ► - That's true, that's true.

01:50:00 ◼   ► Also, because the Jeep is convertible,

01:50:04 ◼   ► you have those giant, what are they,

01:50:06 ◼   ► like the C pillars, the big diagonal pillars

01:50:08 ◼   ► that run from the back seat into the trunk.

01:50:09 ◼   ► You have these giant pillars that are eating

01:50:11 ◼   ► into the inside space even more.

01:50:13 ◼   ► And so it feels like you're in a roll cage

01:50:17 ◼   ► for a race car inside your car.

01:50:19 ◼   ► - Well you are, I mean that is what you were in.

01:50:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, you literally are.

01:50:22 ◼   ► So everything kind of just felt cramped.

01:50:25 ◼   ► Niceness-wise, this does not feel like a $70,000 car,

01:50:29 ◼   ► even at today's prices.

01:50:30 ◼   ► And Adam did not appreciate the comfortability

01:50:33 ◼   ► of the back seat.

01:50:34 ◼   ► The headrest in particular, he said,

01:50:36 ◼   ► like it was tilting his head at a weird angle.

01:50:38 ◼   ► It was not getting good reviews from either of us.

01:50:40 ◼   ► That being said, when I drove it,

01:50:42 ◼   ► even without the electric drivetrain working,

01:50:44 ◼   ► stupid dealers, it was surprisingly fast and nimble.

01:50:48 ◼   ► I was very pleasantly surprised by that,

01:50:50 ◼   ► much more so than the others.

01:50:52 ◼   ► Like, the 4Runner just felt like a big slow box.

01:50:55 ◼   ► the Wrangler really felt almost car-like

01:50:59 ◼   ► in its weight and nimbleness, nimbility, whatever,

01:51:03 ◼   ► I don't know. (laughs)

01:51:05 ◼   ► I was very impressed by how it felt, how it handled.

01:51:08 ◼   ► If I actually had electric to help me out,

01:51:10 ◼   ► it would have been even better.

01:51:12 ◼   ► I totally see why people buy them.

01:51:15 ◼   ► And in fact, I would even say it did not seem

01:51:18 ◼   ► less comfortable on the road

01:51:20 ◼   ► than the 4Runner or the FJ Cruiser.

01:51:23 ◼   ► So sorry, Jon.

01:51:24 ◼   ► Thank you. Thank you. I consider this a moral and personal victory. I know you're not going

01:51:29 ◼   ► to buy a Wrangler. Maybe you didn't hit any potholes. Oh, stop it, John. Well, hitting

01:51:34 ◼   ► a pothole in any of these vehicles is not fun, but the other ones have independent suspension,

01:51:38 ◼   ► don't they? Uh, I think so. Yeah. But I was expecting it to be way more rough than, than

01:51:44 ◼   ► what it was. Thank you very much. I would say it is exactly as comfortable in at least,

01:51:49 ◼   ► you know, for like, you know, a 10 or 15 minute test drive. It was exactly as comfortable

01:51:53 ◼   ► as the 4Runner in my opinion.

01:51:54 ◼   ► - Well, Adam disagrees.

01:51:55 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah, okay.

01:51:56 ◼   ► - Frankly though, I think the Jeep would be low on my list.

01:52:00 ◼   ► Also because I learned since then

01:52:02 ◼   ► that that electric range of 20 miles or so,

01:52:05 ◼   ► on the sand it would be more like four maybe?

01:52:10 ◼   ► - 20 yards maybe.

01:52:11 ◼   ► - You said you only need three, you're good.

01:52:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, but okay, so I can power off one way

01:52:15 ◼   ► and then not be able to use electric on the way back at all?

01:52:18 ◼   ► So it's not great.

01:52:20 ◼   ► the appeal is less so when it's that short.

01:52:23 ◼   ► But that being said, as they have things like,

01:52:25 ◼   ► they have a Cherokee 4xe that's kind of out,

01:52:29 ◼   ► but nobody has them yet, but you know,

01:52:31 ◼   ► so that might become something in the future, who knows.

01:52:33 ◼   ► But anyway, I totally appreciate the Wrangler,

01:52:37 ◼   ► now that I've driven one.

01:52:38 ◼   ► It's not for me though.

01:52:39 ◼   ► It has a lot of personality that the 4Runner doesn't have.

01:52:43 ◼   ► You drive that car and you feel something,

01:52:45 ◼   ► but it's not what I wanna feel. (laughs)

01:52:47 ◼   ► - And that's fair. - But I get it.

01:52:49 ◼   ► Like I get why people like it.

01:52:50 ◼   ► - I consider this a victory in the KC camp.

01:52:53 ◼   ► I just wanted you to understand

01:52:56 ◼   ► that this isn't a rolling piece of crap.

01:52:59 ◼   ► I totally understand and sympathize

01:53:01 ◼   ► that it may not be for you.

01:53:02 ◼   ► That's fine.

01:53:03 ◼   ► There's nothing wrong with that.

01:53:05 ◼   ► But if you were to look at the chats

01:53:07 ◼   ► that the three of us and a few other people

01:53:09 ◼   ► on the relay slack were having,

01:53:10 ◼   ► according to John and Marco before Marco drove it,

01:53:13 ◼   ► that thing was like driving on wheels shaped like squares.

01:53:17 ◼   ► Like that's how rough apparently it is.

01:53:19 ◼   ► - I mean, did you take it like on the highway,

01:53:21 ◼   ► like 70 miles an hour?

01:53:22 ◼   ► I mean, it's not.

01:53:23 ◼   ► - Jon, when was the last time you were in a Wrangler?

01:53:25 ◼   ► - I don't know, but they don't get good reviews.

01:53:28 ◼   ► Like I said, the phrase that rings the mind

01:53:30 ◼   ► when I see this thing, and granted,

01:53:31 ◼   ► this is a fancy Wrangler and it's not like a two door,

01:53:34 ◼   ► tiny thing with a short wheelbase or whatever,

01:53:35 ◼   ► but we've said this in past programs,

01:53:37 ◼   ► like driving a grand piano with the door open on it.

01:53:41 ◼   ► Or the lid open, sorry.

01:53:42 ◼   ► Driving like, driving a grand piano with the lid open.

01:53:44 ◼   ► - I will say too, the one we were test driving

01:53:46 ◼   ► had the electrically retractable soft top roof.

01:53:50 ◼   ► And boy, that thing leaks a lot of sound.

01:53:53 ◼   ► And probably temperature as well, if I had to guess.

01:53:55 ◼   ► - So did you drive it on the highway or no?

01:53:57 ◼   ► - No, we were on like, you know,

01:53:59 ◼   ► Long Island car dealer neighborhoods.

01:54:01 ◼   ► There were these, you know, you could go like 55

01:54:03 ◼   ► on some of the bigger roads for a little while

01:54:04 ◼   ► and then you'd stop and turn and, you know,

01:54:06 ◼   ► go down some side streets, then go back to the bigger roads.

01:54:08 ◼   ► You know, that kind of thing.

01:54:09 ◼   ► - 'Cause I have to imagine that the 4Runner

01:54:11 ◼   ► is going to be smoother and quieter at highway speeds.

01:54:13 ◼   ► - Maybe, well, and also, I should point out too,

01:54:16 ◼   ► With the FJ and with the way I drive these things,

01:54:18 ◼   ► because these trips begin and end on sand,

01:54:21 ◼   ► you don't keep very much tire pressure.

01:54:23 ◼   ► When you have low-ish tire pressure,

01:54:26 ◼   ► you don't wanna be driving that fast on the highway

01:54:28 ◼   ► or taking really fast turns or anything.

01:54:30 ◼   ► So I drive these vehicles very gently,

01:54:33 ◼   ► and on the highway, I don't usually go above 60.

01:54:37 ◼   ► I keep it very slow. - You wouldn't re-inflate

01:54:40 ◼   ► after getting off the sand?

01:54:41 ◼   ► - If I was going to Westchester, I would.

01:54:43 ◼   ► But if I'm just going to the grocery store, no.

01:54:45 ◼   ► So therefore I keep it slow and gentle for sure.

01:54:50 ◼   ► Anyway, the Jeep, again, I get it now much more

01:54:54 ◼   ► than I did before, but it's not for me.

01:54:56 ◼   ► Like it's clearly, you give up so much

01:54:59 ◼   ► for it to be convertible and disassemblable,

01:55:03 ◼   ► and those are things I don't wanna give up,

01:55:05 ◼   ► and I don't need that.

01:55:06 ◼   ► So, went over to Land Rover, it was across the street

01:55:09 ◼   ► conveniently, Long Island.

01:55:10 ◼   ► Adam's chair rating was medium,

01:55:14 ◼   ► Although he later found the large leather cube chair.

01:55:18 ◼   ► Like, after the test drive he found that

01:55:21 ◼   ► and then he upgraded his rating to the best chairs.

01:55:25 ◼   ► - Oh, excellent.

01:55:26 ◼   ► - He also, he was, this was getting in mid-afternoon,

01:55:30 ◼   ► we're getting a little bit hungry and bored by this point.

01:55:33 ◼   ► So I found the little push button coffee machine

01:55:36 ◼   ► in their waiting area and it had a hot chocolate option.

01:55:40 ◼   ► He gave solid marks for that.

01:55:43 ◼   ► He did suggest, next to the coffee push button maker thing,

01:55:46 ◼   ► there was another push button machine

01:55:48 ◼   ► for dispensing all sorts of garbage chemical sweeteners

01:55:50 ◼   ► to your coffee.

01:55:51 ◼   ► He suggested they should add marshmallows to the dispenser

01:55:54 ◼   ► for the hot chocolate users,

01:55:55 ◼   ► which I think was a good suggestion.

01:55:56 ◼   ► Anyway, the dealer website here

01:55:59 ◼   ► listed four new Defenders available.

01:56:02 ◼   ► Zero of the four were actually there.

01:56:04 ◼   ► - Oh, cool.

01:56:06 ◼   ► Why'd you settle on the Defender, by the way,

01:56:08 ◼   ► of all the vehicles that they offer?

01:56:11 ◼   ► it seemed like the most direct competitor for these things.

01:56:15 ◼   ► I don't know, I didn't look that much into it,

01:56:16 ◼   ► to be honest. (laughs)

01:56:17 ◼   ► But like, their other ones seem like they're both

01:56:20 ◼   ► more expensive and, you know,

01:56:23 ◼   ► that you give a bit on stuff like ground clearance

01:56:25 ◼   ► and a little bit of the off-road abilities.

01:56:27 ◼   ► So anyway, they had no new Defenders available,

01:56:30 ◼   ► despite listing four of them on the website.

01:56:32 ◼   ► The new models on the website, they listed a quote,

01:56:37 ◼   ► accessories charge on each one

01:56:40 ◼   ► that was between 12 and $19,000.

01:56:44 ◼   ► - Oh my gosh.

01:56:44 ◼   ► - And it would say what it was for

01:56:46 ◼   ► and it was for vague things like the protector package.

01:56:50 ◼   ► - What?

01:56:51 ◼   ► - It's like stuff that,

01:56:52 ◼   ► they're obviously, this is just their dealer markup,

01:56:54 ◼   ► but they just for whatever reason

01:56:56 ◼   ► didn't want to say that or couldn't say that.

01:56:58 ◼   ► Anyway, they did however have one use defender

01:57:05 ◼   ► from last year, the 2021 model, on the lot.

01:57:08 ◼   ► And there was a customer-owned one parked in the lot

01:57:12 ◼   ► that was a different color that I could compare.

01:57:14 ◼   ► I could test drive the one used one they had.

01:57:16 ◼   ► And it had most of what I wanted anyway.

01:57:18 ◼   ► So anyways, I'm like, all right, let me see this.

01:57:20 ◼   ► And it was light, it's one year old, 10,000 miles, great.

01:57:23 ◼   ► Overall, the interior space was very kind of medium.

01:57:27 ◼   ► The 4Runner was the most space by far.

01:57:29 ◼   ► The Jeep was the least space by far.

01:57:30 ◼   ► This was right in the middle.

01:57:31 ◼   ► Medium-sized trunk.

01:57:32 ◼   ► For some reason, massively tall headroom.

01:57:35 ◼   ► Even John, I think, would feel comfortable

01:57:38 ◼   ► with his perfect hair in this car.

01:57:40 ◼   ► - Land Rovers are always very tall cars.

01:57:42 ◼   ► They look tall, and I guess they are tall in real life.

01:57:44 ◼   ► They're just, you know, the better to tip over.

01:57:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, oh, people in chat are asking which size Defender,

01:57:49 ◼   ► the four-door 110 model.

01:57:52 ◼   ► They, apparently they have a 130 coming out now

01:57:54 ◼   ► that's even bigger, if that's like Casey's SUV size,

01:57:57 ◼   ► 'cause it has to fit more people in it,

01:57:58 ◼   ► but no, this is the 110,

01:58:00 ◼   ► the kind of medium-sized four-door one.

01:58:02 ◼   ► Anyway, so we went for a test drive on that.

01:58:04 ◼   ► I will say also, after the test drive, this was fun,

01:58:08 ◼   ► it's one of these dealers that has like this little

01:58:10 ◼   ► mini off-road demo course like in the parking lot.

01:58:13 ◼   ► - Oh, that's cool, that's not fair.

01:58:15 ◼   ► - And so the salesman took us on this.

01:58:18 ◼   ► I thought I was gonna die,

01:58:20 ◼   ► Adam thought it was the most amazing thing ever.

01:58:23 ◼   ► Where you know, the car, you drive the car up

01:58:25 ◼   ► on this like 45 degree angle and you're like,

01:58:28 ◼   ► how is it not tipping over?

01:58:30 ◼   ► I feel like it should, why is it not,

01:58:32 ◼   ► like it should be tipping over and it doesn't.

01:58:34 ◼   ► It was really fun, but.

01:58:36 ◼   ► - This is the most off-road use

01:58:37 ◼   ► that most of the cars they sell are ever going to get

01:58:39 ◼   ► is in this parking lot.

01:58:41 ◼   ► You're actually gonna use it off-road,

01:58:42 ◼   ► but most people are like.

01:58:43 ◼   ► - Exactly.

01:58:45 ◼   ► Anyway, so yeah, everything inside was medium-sized.

01:58:48 ◼   ► By far the nicest interior.

01:58:51 ◼   ► Not even close.

01:58:52 ◼   ► - There's the surprise.

01:58:53 ◼   ► - Not even a little bit close.

01:58:54 ◼   ► Like, by far the nicest interior.

01:58:57 ◼   ► Also, by far the nicest drive.

01:59:00 ◼   ► I was surprised how car-like it was in handling.

01:59:04 ◼   ► Not in size, it felt like a big car, a very big car.

01:59:09 ◼   ► And all of these cars, when I'm driving them,

01:59:11 ◼   ► because I'm used to driving car cars,

01:59:14 ◼   ► I'm used to sitting much lower,

01:59:16 ◼   ► and all of these feel like I'm sitting in the sky.

01:59:19 ◼   ► Not only is it an SUV, it's an off-road SUV.

01:59:22 ◼   ► So you're looking down into other SUVs.

01:59:25 ◼   ► You're even higher than most SUVs are by six or seven inches.

01:59:29 ◼   ► So you're looking down, it's the weirdest thing for me

01:59:32 ◼   ► 'cause I don't usually drive these kind of vehicles.

01:59:34 ◼   ► So it's like, anyway, it's good to feel tall.

01:59:37 ◼   ► Yeah, so the Land Rover easily won the Adam vote

01:59:44 ◼   ► with its many USB charging ports everywhere.

01:59:47 ◼   ► He was amazed that his back seat had three USB charging

01:59:50 ◼   ► ports available within his reach.

01:59:52 ◼   ► By far the nicest screen, like the big media screen,

01:59:58 ◼   ► It has this really nice 360 degree camera system.

02:00:01 ◼   ► It uses multiple cameras to simulate an actual 360,

02:00:05 ◼   ► like super round view of the car.

02:00:08 ◼   ► So you have both the top down view

02:00:09 ◼   ► and you can back it out and look up YouTube videos of this.

02:00:12 ◼   ► - Doesn't your Tesla do that too?

02:00:14 ◼   ► - No, it doesn't.

02:00:15 ◼   ► Tesla has backup camera and that's it.

02:00:17 ◼   ► - Wow, that's probably, yeah, all the big Lux brands

02:00:19 ◼   ► have the super round the camera, the car thing now.

02:00:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, Aaron's car does.

02:00:23 ◼   ► - Oh my god, it was so nice.

02:00:25 ◼   ► And the other two-- - Your M5 had that.

02:00:27 ◼   ► - No, it had top down. - Yes it did.

02:00:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, it had top down.

02:00:30 ◼   ► It only had sides and back, it didn't have a front camera,

02:00:32 ◼   ► so it was a little bit limited.

02:00:33 ◼   ► But anyway, and the Forerunner has the side cameras

02:00:36 ◼   ► and sort of a front one now,

02:00:38 ◼   ► and it's a similar kind of camera arrangement,

02:00:43 ◼   ► but they don't composite it together into anything cool,

02:00:45 ◼   ► but it does have that for reference.

02:00:47 ◼   ► But when I saw that in YouTube reviews, I'm like,

02:00:50 ◼   ► "Oh my God, to have that on the streets here,

02:00:52 ◼   ► "when I have to back up and not crush somebody's lawn

02:00:56 ◼   ► or break their fence, or if I back up into somebody's

02:01:01 ◼   ► side street to let a car pass, like oh my god,

02:01:04 ◼   ► to have that over what I've been doing with the FJ

02:01:07 ◼   ► is very different. (laughs)

02:01:10 ◼   ► It also has, I've never seen this before.

02:01:14 ◼   ► Maybe you guys know about these.

02:01:15 ◼   ► It has an option that if you flip the rear view mirror

02:01:19 ◼   ► so that normally you'd flip it to turn on the polarizer

02:01:21 ◼   ► or whatever, it uses a camera in the rear fin

02:01:26 ◼   ► on the roof and gives you a screen as your rear view mirror.

02:01:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm familiar with this as a thing.

02:01:31 ◼   ► I don't know of any models off the top of my head

02:01:33 ◼   ► other than this that have it,

02:01:34 ◼   ► but I'm familiar with this as a thing.

02:01:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's the thing.

02:01:37 ◼   ► I spent on supercars where there's no rear visibility,

02:01:41 ◼   ► there's only a screen, but yeah,

02:01:42 ◼   ► the ones that switch between regular and screen.

02:01:44 ◼   ► And honestly, I understand why they have both

02:01:46 ◼   ► and the ones where you have both,

02:01:47 ◼   ► 'cause screen technology is such that there are situations

02:01:50 ◼   ► where the mirror is superior to the screen,

02:01:53 ◼   ► but that gap is shrinking real quick.

02:01:55 ◼   ► I do wonder how long, because the advantage

02:01:57 ◼   ► the camera has is it's unobstructed view, right?

02:01:59 ◼   ► It doesn't have to go through people's heads

02:02:01 ◼   ► or headrest or anything like that.

02:02:01 ◼   ► - Or the spare tire mounted on the back trunk lid.

02:02:04 ◼   ► - Exactly, yeah.

02:02:05 ◼   ► Or the car or the cargo, if you've packed the thing

02:02:08 ◼   ► with cargo, you can't see anything, right?

02:02:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, the rear visibility outside of all these vehicles

02:02:11 ◼   ► is compromised because there's a wheel

02:02:14 ◼   ► stuck to the back of them, and you're going through it.

02:02:16 ◼   ► The visibility with this camera mirror

02:02:19 ◼   ► was better than the visibility out of any car I've ever seen.

02:02:21 ◼   ► Like, it's better than my Tesla,

02:02:22 ◼   ► 'cause it has the headrest in the way

02:02:24 ◼   ► and the shape of the trunk.

02:02:25 ◼   ► Oh my God, massive game changer to see that kind of mirror.

02:02:29 ◼   ► That was amazing.

02:02:30 ◼   ► Also, Adam said it had the nicest smell.

02:02:32 ◼   ► So by far the nicest option of all the contenders,

02:02:38 ◼   ► but also the most expensive.

02:02:39 ◼   ► So it's basically the Apple/Marco choice, right?

02:02:43 ◼   ► It was the only one that I actually felt something about

02:02:48 ◼   ► and I actually wanted after the test drive.

02:02:52 ◼   ► The other ones, I walked away, I'm like,

02:02:54 ◼   ► Okay, fine, you know.

02:02:56 ◼   ► This, me feeling like I wanted an SUV

02:03:00 ◼   ► is like John wanting a laptop.

02:03:03 ◼   ► That doesn't happen.

02:03:04 ◼   ► Like, this is a category of things

02:03:06 ◼   ► that I don't think I ever want.

02:03:08 ◼   ► I actually wanted this.

02:03:09 ◼   ► Even though it was more money than the others,

02:03:12 ◼   ► it wasn't even that much more.

02:03:14 ◼   ► Like, when you compare, you know,

02:03:16 ◼   ► it was like the difference between economy

02:03:18 ◼   ► and first class on a plane,

02:03:19 ◼   ► but if first class only costs like 30% more

02:03:22 ◼   ► instead of three times more.

02:03:24 ◼   ► And if you were committed to your choice

02:03:26 ◼   ► for like years instead of hours.

02:03:28 ◼   ► It was a huge difference in niceness and features

02:03:34 ◼   ► and comfort for not a huge price increase.

02:03:39 ◼   ► So I got it.

02:03:41 ◼   ► - Wait, the used one?

02:03:42 ◼   ► - Yep.

02:03:43 ◼   ► - Oh, well congratulations.

02:03:45 ◼   ► So to be clear, you decided to replace,

02:03:50 ◼   ► a admittedly old but still a Toyota,

02:03:53 ◼   ► which will probably run until the end of time.

02:03:56 ◼   ► You decided to replace that with a British SUV.

02:03:59 ◼   ► Godspeed.

02:04:00 ◼   ► - The Toyota's engine would run until the end of time.

02:04:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, fair, fair.

02:04:04 ◼   ► - Did you buy it or did you lease it?

02:04:06 ◼   ► - I bought it, 'cause I mean,

02:04:08 ◼   ► can you believe in lease a used car?

02:04:09 ◼   ► - What happened to the whole leasing plan?

02:04:11 ◼   ► The whole idea was you got the two year window,

02:04:13 ◼   ► you don't want the car that's gonna be damaged by salt,

02:04:15 ◼   ► you do the lease, you give it back

02:04:16 ◼   ► at someone else's problem.

02:04:17 ◼   ► What happened to that?

02:04:18 ◼   ► First of all, the prices of the new ones,

02:04:21 ◼   ► especially being so inflated by the dealers,

02:04:23 ◼   ► are way more than the prices of the used ones.

02:04:25 ◼   ► The difference is even bigger than it usually is

02:04:27 ◼   ► between new and used.

02:04:28 ◼   ► And I don't know if I'm gonna need this car

02:04:31 ◼   ► for one year, two years, or maybe even three years.

02:04:33 ◼   ► I don't know.

02:04:34 ◼   ► So to have the flexibility is actually nice,

02:04:37 ◼   ► plus to apply a trade-in that covered half the cost

02:04:42 ◼   ► was very, very nice.

02:04:45 ◼   ► I don't even know how you would've done that,

02:04:46 ◼   ► because I think the trade in value would have covered

02:04:48 ◼   ► all of the lease payments.

02:04:49 ◼   ► So I don't even know if that would even function that way.

02:04:52 ◼   ► Anyway, so that's why I did that.

02:04:54 ◼   ► And the condition of the frame and stuff on the FJ

02:04:58 ◼   ► and the amount of rust,

02:04:59 ◼   ► trading into a dealer was the way to go.

02:05:02 ◼   ► And they saw it, they knew what it was.

02:05:03 ◼   ► But they also know the market.

02:05:05 ◼   ► They did the same research I did,

02:05:06 ◼   ► found out they could probably flip it to some auction

02:05:08 ◼   ► for X dollars and they gave me a really good price.

02:05:11 ◼   ► I negotiated a very good price for the trade

02:05:13 ◼   ► and everything, so it was, yeah.

02:05:14 ◼   ► That was good.

02:05:16 ◼   ► - So what color is it?

02:05:17 ◼   ► - It is the blue.

02:05:18 ◼   ► - All right.

02:05:19 ◼   ► - And that's part of the reason why

02:05:21 ◼   ► I got the used one actually.

02:05:22 ◼   ► I had located, there was a new one coming in

02:05:26 ◼   ► in the green color, coming into a different dealer

02:05:29 ◼   ► sometime soon, but I said at the front of this,

02:05:32 ◼   ► they had a used one a lot and they had a customer's car

02:05:35 ◼   ► that was owned so I couldn't drive it.

02:05:37 ◼   ► The customer's car was the green color.

02:05:39 ◼   ► And I parked it right next to each other

02:05:40 ◼   ► and I looked at it, I'm like, you know,

02:05:42 ◼   ► I don't like the green actually.

02:05:43 ◼   ► In person, it's much lighter than you think it is.

02:05:47 ◼   ► It looks almost like a green tinted silver.

02:05:49 ◼   ► And the interior trim of the one that I had located

02:05:53 ◼   ► was all green trim also, like green leather and stuff.

02:05:56 ◼   ► And I'm like, it looked very military.

02:05:59 ◼   ► And there's a lot of black trim on them.

02:06:01 ◼   ► And the combination of the green with all the black trim,

02:06:05 ◼   ► I didn't think it looked as nice in person

02:06:07 ◼   ► as I wanted it to.

02:06:08 ◼   ► Whereas the blue, I was like, oh my god, I have to have that.

02:06:11 ◼   ► The blue is so nice. (laughs)

02:06:13 ◼   ► - This website is so terrible I cannot for the life of me

02:06:15 ◼   ► go to a configurator and let me change the color to blue.

02:06:17 ◼   ► It's like, oh this trim level is only available

02:06:19 ◼   ► in these two colors, just show me a blue one.

02:06:20 ◼   ► Can you have a picture?

02:06:21 ◼   ► - Make the window narrow.

02:06:23 ◼   ► The whole website's broken,

02:06:23 ◼   ► but if you make the window narrow,

02:06:25 ◼   ► it changes the whole layout

02:06:25 ◼   ► and you get a thing on the side and it works.

02:06:28 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like a medium, it's called Tasmagm blue,

02:06:30 ◼   ► it's like a medium blue, kind of like a,

02:06:32 ◼   ► I don't know if like a dusk kind of, I don't know.

02:06:34 ◼   ► It's a really nice blue.

02:06:36 ◼   ► So anyway, I saw that and I looked at other inventory

02:06:38 ◼   ► and I'm like, you know, and the used one had

02:06:40 ◼   ► Almost all the exact features I wanted,

02:06:43 ◼   ► but it was way less money,

02:06:45 ◼   ► and it was only very lightly used.

02:06:46 ◼   ► And to address Case's reliability question,

02:06:49 ◼   ► I'm probably not going to own it for long enough

02:06:52 ◼   ► for the manufacturer warranty,

02:06:54 ◼   ► which is the first four years to be over.

02:06:57 ◼   ► And that covers all the stuff that Elise would cover.

02:06:59 ◼   ► So I did the research on it.

02:07:02 ◼   ► What does it cover?

02:07:02 ◼   ► Does it cover things like corrosion?

02:07:04 ◼   ► Yes, it was a pretty great fit,

02:07:06 ◼   ► and based on the options of what's actually available,

02:07:10 ◼   ► anywhere in the region, it was an obvious choice.

02:07:15 ◼   ► - Well, congratulations, that's exciting.

02:07:16 ◼   ► It's the most Marco-y of Marco answers.

02:07:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is a very predictable result.

02:07:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly, yeah, it's surprising nobody.

02:07:22 ◼   ► I will say, and so I drove it, bought it, did all that,

02:07:26 ◼   ► drove it back to the ferry and everything.

02:07:28 ◼   ► It is really nice.

02:07:31 ◼   ► It is still a very big car,

02:07:33 ◼   ► and part of it is just that I'm not used to driving vehicles

02:07:37 ◼   ► the size or height in the sky.

02:07:40 ◼   ► And so I keep thinking it's bigger than it is.

02:07:43 ◼   ► Like I'll park it in a spot using the amazing camera system

02:07:46 ◼   ► and I'll be like, oh my god,

02:07:47 ◼   ► I feel like I'm just barely fitting here.

02:07:49 ◼   ► And then I get out and I'm like, oh my god,

02:07:50 ◼   ► I have like four feet around me, like it's fine.

02:07:54 ◼   ► The instrument cluster has a bunch of customization options

02:07:58 ◼   ► and everything, none of them are amazing but some are okay.

02:08:01 ◼   ► I love having a sunglasses holder on the roof.

02:08:05 ◼   ► Like many cars do.

02:08:07 ◼   ► One thing that Tesla sucks at is there's never anywhere

02:08:11 ◼   ► in a Tesla to put your sunglasses.

02:08:13 ◼   ► - She's got a Honda Accord,

02:08:14 ◼   ► sunglasses holding right in the roof.

02:08:15 ◼   ► - Golf R, I have two of them.

02:08:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, every car has a place to put sunglasses

02:08:20 ◼   ► except Tesla, I don't know what it is.

02:08:22 ◼   ► Don't they have sun in California?

02:08:25 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure they're known for that.

02:08:26 ◼   ► - No, it's always foggy, remember?

02:08:27 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, but yeah, so love the,

02:08:31 ◼   ► lots of little details of the interior.

02:08:33 ◼   ► - And it has CarPlay, right?

02:08:34 ◼   ► - Yes, it does, wireless CarPlay.

02:08:37 ◼   ► - Oh, welcome to the new world.

02:08:39 ◼   ► Your Tesla is now ruined, baby.

02:08:41 ◼   ► - I will say the center array of buttons and knobs

02:08:44 ◼   ► that is the main control area for HVAC

02:08:47 ◼   ► and some of the off-roading features and everything,

02:08:49 ◼   ► it is a bit confusing.

02:08:51 ◼   ► I think I just have to get used to it.

02:08:53 ◼   ► There's a lot of good controls everywhere.

02:08:55 ◼   ► One of the things I really love about the CarPlay,

02:08:57 ◼   ► it's something I never have had before,

02:08:59 ◼   ► I love that you can use the steering wheel button for Siri

02:09:02 ◼   ► and that it works instantly.

02:09:04 ◼   ► Before, I would just hold the Siri button on my phone,

02:09:08 ◼   ► going over regular Bluetooth in a Tesla or whatever,

02:09:11 ◼   ► and when you do that, you have to kind of wait a second

02:09:13 ◼   ► or two for the phone to tell the car,

02:09:17 ◼   ► hey, I'm in phone call mode, so turn on your microphone.

02:09:19 ◼   ► And then it kind of beeps and you might hear the doo-doo,

02:09:23 ◼   ► or it might get cut off weirdly,

02:09:25 ◼   ► and so you end up having to retry or fail with Siri a lot

02:09:28 ◼   ► 'cause you have this weird delay to take care of,

02:09:31 ◼   ► whereas here, when you have a native Siri button

02:09:33 ◼   ► on the wheel, you just push it, done.

02:09:36 ◼   ► That was really nice.

02:09:37 ◼   ► And otherwise, the rest I don't really know yet.

02:09:40 ◼   ► I haven't driven on the sand yet,

02:09:41 ◼   ► 'cause you're not allowed to during the summer.

02:09:43 ◼   ► I don't know how it'll go on the sand yet,

02:09:45 ◼   ► but by all the reviews and everything, I'm very optimistic.

02:09:48 ◼   ► It seems like it's extremely capable off-road.

02:09:51 ◼   ► And that's about it.

02:09:52 ◼   ► - So where is it?

02:09:53 ◼   ► It's in the ferry parking lot now?

02:09:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, I have parked my Tesla in Westchester,

02:09:58 ◼   ► and I'm going to leave it there for a while.

02:10:01 ◼   ► 'cause I mean, it's a paid off Tesla

02:10:04 ◼   ► that needs no maintenance basically ever,

02:10:07 ◼   ► and so it's gonna sit there for a while,

02:10:09 ◼   ► and I'm gonna figure out whether I'm going to keep it

02:10:11 ◼   ► for the next two years,

02:10:13 ◼   ► and resume using it when I move back there,

02:10:16 ◼   ► or whether I say, you know what,

02:10:17 ◼   ► the Defender is good enough to serve this role for me

02:10:21 ◼   ► for a while, and then maybe I'll sell the Tesla,

02:10:23 ◼   ► but I don't know.

02:10:24 ◼   ► That decision remains to be seen.

02:10:25 ◼   ► - Don't forget to have someone go and start the engine

02:10:27 ◼   ► on a Tesla at least once a week.

02:10:29 ◼   ► (laughing)

02:10:30 ◼   ► - You didn't answer the most important question.

02:10:32 ◼   ► So Adam, I was hungry for food

02:10:34 ◼   ► and you gave him hot chocolate.

02:10:34 ◼   ► Did you go to my pizza place that I recommended?

02:10:36 ◼   ► Sounds like you didn't.

02:10:37 ◼   ► - No, instead, part of the agreement with Adam

02:10:40 ◼   ► was that if he was gonna come with me

02:10:41 ◼   ► to these car dealerships,

02:10:43 ◼   ► that we were gonna go to Shake Shack afterwards.

02:10:44 ◼   ► So that's what we did.

02:10:46 ◼   ► - You went to Shake Shack instead of my favorite pizza place

02:10:49 ◼   ► in the entire world that you were like five minutes from.

02:10:53 ◼   ► - Sorry.

02:10:54 ◼   ► (laughing)

02:10:55 ◼   ► - Well, when you go there, you get the Land Rover Service.

02:10:57 ◼   ► You can check it out.

02:10:58 ◼   ► (laughing)

02:10:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, which you will be doing sooner than you think,

02:11:01 ◼   ► I'm quite sure.

02:11:02 ◼   ► - Actually, I literally am.

02:11:03 ◼   ► 'Cause I ordered the rear recovery loops,

02:11:07 ◼   ► and they're gonna put them in sometime soon,

02:11:08 ◼   ► and I have to bring it in for that.

02:11:09 ◼   ► So yeah, I'm gonna be back there probably in a few weeks.

02:11:13 ◼   ► - Has Tiff even seen it yet?

02:11:14 ◼   ► - Nope.

02:11:15 ◼   ► She declared, 'cause when I'm in car buying mode,

02:11:18 ◼   ► I get really annoying, like, "Hey, what about this?"

02:11:19 ◼   ► Or, "What do you think about this?

02:11:20 ◼   ► "Should we do this, should we do this?"

02:11:21 ◼   ► And eventually, she's just like,

02:11:24 ◼   ► "Just shut up and just get whatever you want, I don't care."

02:11:26 ◼   ► (laughing)

02:11:27 ◼   ► - This sounds familiar.

02:11:28 ◼   ► - She left it to you and Adam to figure out.

02:11:30 ◼   ► - Yes, and Adam had, he had such a blast.

02:11:33 ◼   ► Like, I didn't know how that would go,

02:11:34 ◼   ► 'cause I was worried he'd be bored or, you know.

02:11:38 ◼   ► He loved it, he absolutely loved it.

02:11:40 ◼   ► - That's awesome, that's really awesome.

02:11:42 ◼   ► - It was almost worth buying a new car

02:11:44 ◼   ► just for that wonderful bonding experience.

02:11:45 ◼   ► He was like, this is my favorite trip we've taken in months.

02:11:48 ◼   ► Like, he was so happy.

02:11:49 ◼   ► - Oh, that's so great.

02:11:50 ◼   ► - Can we buy a new car next month?

02:11:52 ◼   ► You should say maybe.

02:11:53 ◼   ► - If it's anything like laptops.

02:11:54 ◼   ► - Well, the good thing is the novelty will have worn off,

02:11:56 ◼   ► you know, after this for a while.

02:11:57 ◼   ► So he's not going to care about cars again until it's actually

02:12:00 ◼   ► time to get a new one years from now.

02:12:01 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, it'll probably-- like,

02:12:03 ◼   ► maybe within high school, you can finally succumb to--

02:12:05 ◼   ► we know where this is going.

02:12:06 ◼   ► You can finally succumb to the pull

02:12:09 ◼   ► and go boat shopping with him.

02:12:11 ◼   ► Oh, no.

02:12:12 ◼   ► Oh, that's true.

02:12:13 ◼   ► That's true.

02:12:14 ◼   ► That's way off in the distance in Marco's future.

02:12:16 ◼   ► No, not a boat person.

02:12:18 ◼   ► It's like a giant black hole for money.

02:12:20 ◼   ► Yep, yep, yep.

02:12:21 ◼   ► No, I got cars for that.

02:12:23 ◼   ► [Door closes]

02:12:25 ◼   ► [BLANK_AUDIO]