500: All the Nerds in the Room


00:00:00   My streak is over.

00:00:02   Not our 500th episode streak,

00:00:03   'cause this is the 500th episode,

00:00:04   but my streak of not needing any kind of corrective eyewear

00:00:09   is over. - Oh, oh no.

00:00:11   Oh, what happened?

00:00:13   - So I turned 40 a few months ago.

00:00:16   - Yeah, everything takes a dump right around then.

00:00:19   - Warranty runs out.

00:00:20   - It must have been within the same month.

00:00:23   I started noticing, hmm,

00:00:25   my minimum focus distance is increasing.

00:00:28   (laughing)

00:00:31   And as that kept getting worse, I'm like,

00:00:33   you know, this seems to be happening quickly.

00:00:35   Like I'm suddenly noticing in the last few months,

00:00:38   like I can't focus as close as I used to anymore.

00:00:41   And it finally reached the point of like

00:00:44   my nighttime phone in bed reading distance.

00:00:47   And I thought, uh-oh, it's time.

00:00:52   I should probably go to an eye doctor

00:00:54   for the first time ever.

00:00:56   - Oh, I'm so jealous.

00:00:57   One of the advantages, I think, of being somebody who has been nearsighted their entire life,

00:01:02   my close-up vision is pretty darn good for someone of my advanced age.

00:01:07   Can't see anything two feet past my face, but close-up, boy, I don't need any corrective

00:01:12   lenses.

00:01:13   Yeah, well, now I have officially been prescribed reading glasses.

00:01:19   Oh, reading glasses!

00:01:21   Not even regular glasses, just reading glasses?

00:01:23   Oh, wow.

00:01:24   I'm still OK on distance, but I need readers now.

00:01:27   I mean, you could get prescription up-close glasses

00:01:30   as just probably saving you some money

00:01:31   to get cheap-out reading glasses.

00:01:34   They wanted me to pick out glasses there,

00:01:36   and I'm like, you know what?

00:01:37   I need my wife to be here for this,

00:01:39   because I don't have the confidence

00:01:42   to make this choice myself.

00:01:44   Also to catch you when you faint when

00:01:46   you see how much glasses cost.

00:01:47   I mean, readers are cheap, but you know, well, cheaper--

00:01:49   Just wait.

00:01:50   Just wait.

00:01:52   The connection between the bill of goods,

00:01:55   how much does it cost to manufacture, distribute,

00:01:58   blah, blah, blah, plus profit margin in the glasses

00:02:00   and how much you pay for them,

00:02:01   it's like the same connection between that

00:02:03   and printer ink prices.

00:02:04   It just makes no sense whatsoever.

00:02:07   - Yeah, by the way, people in the chat are saying

00:02:09   how lucky I am and how horrible their stuff is.

00:02:11   If it makes you feel any better,

00:02:12   I went bald and gray in my early 20s,

00:02:14   so it all balances out in different ways.

00:02:19   Anyway, so one interesting part about it,

00:02:23   besides the crushing anxiety of getting older

00:02:25   and having my body slowly break down

00:02:26   and having that be very apparent in a very clear way

00:02:29   all of a sudden, is that for the first time ever,

00:02:32   I had those eye dilating drops for them to do the exam.

00:02:35   - First time ever in your life, huh, wow.

00:02:37   - How was it trying to read your phone

00:02:40   moments after that happened?

00:02:41   - So at first, so he puts the drops in,

00:02:44   and he's like, all right, now you can go wait

00:02:46   in the waiting room, I'll bring you back in in 15 minutes.

00:02:48   And I was like, well, I'm like, all right, cool.

00:02:50   He's like, what things are we gonna do

00:02:51   is artificially age you forward by a lot.

00:02:54   Okay, whatever that means.

00:02:57   So I'm sitting in the waiting room at first,

00:02:58   like nothing's happening, and then I start noticing,

00:03:00   huh, it is starting now to get a little bit blurrier,

00:03:03   and then over the span of a couple minutes,

00:03:05   it's like, oh no, and it's to the point where like,

00:03:08   I'm holding my phone out and I'm like,

00:03:09   trying to get like a Twitter reply in like right before,

00:03:11   I'm like, I only have a minute left.

00:03:14   And I also, because Tiff couldn't come with me

00:03:17   for logistical reasons, so I was there alone

00:03:19   and I had just taken a Lyft there,

00:03:21   like from the ferry station.

00:03:22   She warned me about this, she's like,

00:03:23   you probably won't be able to drive home.

00:03:24   All right, all right, so I took a Lyft.

00:03:26   But right before I was about to lose sight of my phone,

00:03:30   I quickly went in and turned on increased contrast

00:03:33   and raised the font size all the way up.

00:03:35   And I opened up Lyft and kind of preset where I was going.

00:03:39   So I'm like, because I test with voiceover,

00:03:42   I could use my phone totally blind,

00:03:45   but because I don't regularly use it,

00:03:47   I'm very slow at it.

00:03:48   So I'm like, all right, let me at least set things up

00:03:50   as well as I can to give myself the best

00:03:52   chance of success here and hopefully able to do this.

00:03:55   Meanwhile, the eye doctor office has no reception.

00:03:59   It's one of those office buildings.

00:04:01   It's old concrete and steel probably, so it has no reception.

00:04:06   I'm doing all this with the slowest internet connection.

00:04:08   My phone's super hot trying to get a signal,

00:04:10   and I'm slowly losing my vision.

00:04:12   And it was quite a harrowing experience

00:04:15   to be doing this for the very first time at age 40

00:04:18   and never having experienced it.

00:04:19   It was, I mean, not to use a terrible pun,

00:04:22   it was illuminating, it really was.

00:04:25   Because I very much appreciated, first of all, my vision,

00:04:29   and I secondly very much appreciated

00:04:31   the accessibility features of the iPhone in that moment.

00:04:33   I could so quickly just boost stuff up,

00:04:35   and it was very apparent to me very quickly

00:04:39   how many apps, including sections of my own app,

00:04:41   like the now playing screen, are terrible with,

00:04:45   or just don't adjust at all.

00:04:46   Like, in my last update to Overcast,

00:04:49   when I did, I redid a lot of the list screen stuff,

00:04:52   I much better adopted dynamic text.

00:04:55   It's still not perfect.

00:04:58   I kinda have to wait for my Swift UI rewrite

00:05:00   to do a lot of that, 'cause I have a lot of really old

00:05:01   table view code that just does not resize gracefully.

00:05:04   So I did some of it in the last redesign,

00:05:07   and I wanna do more in like, you know,

00:05:08   the now playing screen stuff I'm working on next.

00:05:11   But man, so many apps don't even bother.

00:05:14   They don't even try.

00:05:15   - Nope, no, it's terrible.

00:05:16   You know, it's funny you bring all this up

00:05:18   because I had occasion to remember a blog post

00:05:21   I wrote back in 2016 about this exact same thing.

00:05:24   I was looking at this just earlier today

00:05:26   by pure happenstance, and you know,

00:05:28   I have truly terrible eyes.

00:05:30   I have this weird thing called keratoconus

00:05:31   where it makes my cornea,

00:05:34   it's the front of my eyes basically pointy.

00:05:36   Like, you would never know it just by looking at me,

00:05:37   although in extreme cases of keratoconus, it's very visible.

00:05:41   But for me, you would never know it by looking at me,

00:05:42   But that means I need hard contact lenses in order to like put a more like a rounded

00:05:50   front in front of my eyes so I can actually see.

00:05:52   And with my hard contacts in, I actually see pretty well without contact lenses, even with

00:05:58   glasses that are as thick as Coke bottles, I can't see garbage.

00:06:02   I can see like literally six inches in front of my head and then everything turns extremely

00:06:06   blurry extremely quickly.

00:06:07   You would think I would hate bouquet based on that, but I'd still like it for some reason.

00:06:11   But anyways, but I wrote a post back in 2016 about exactly this, and coincidentally the

00:06:16   GIF that I put in there was a text message between me and Underscore, where I was demonstrating,

00:06:21   cranking the font size from normal to just ridiculous in order for me to be able to see

00:06:27   it.

00:06:28   And yeah, it's one of those very striking things where if you're lucky enough to be

00:06:33   able-bodied and to not have any particular affliction which would require you to use

00:06:38   any of the accessibility features,

00:06:41   it doesn't seem like it's that big a deal

00:06:43   because myopically and selfishly it isn't.

00:06:45   And then suddenly, even if you're generally able-bodied,

00:06:48   or forgive me if that's not the appropriate term for it,

00:06:50   but if you're generally without needing

00:06:53   any of these affordances, then suddenly,

00:06:55   you get dilating drops or whatever the case may be,

00:06:57   and you do, and you realize, first of all,

00:06:59   thank goodness that Apple's put the work in,

00:07:01   and some developers, but not all of them,

00:07:03   thank goodness Apple's put the work in to make this possible,

00:07:05   be it because of dynamic text,

00:07:07   be it because of voiceover, what have you. But secondly, how unbelievably lucky are you

00:07:14   / me / we / whomever in order to not have to worry about that day to day? And it's really,

00:07:20   it's one of those things that's like, you know, the typical Republican thing of, oh,

00:07:23   this doesn't bother me because it doesn't affect me and then suddenly affects me and

00:07:26   now, oh, we need to change laws because suddenly this affects me. I found that I was very myopic

00:07:33   about this in a very Republican way, which I'm not proud of. And that was a very illuminating

00:07:37   experience again not to use the wrong word like you said Marco but it was an

00:07:40   illuminating you just said my offing I mean yeah that's true I don't even think

00:07:43   about that see I'm terrible I should just stop talking happy episode 500 but

00:07:47   but it was a good run and I ruined it but no seriously though it's it's really

00:07:53   it changes your perspective very quickly when you're put in a position even just

00:07:57   temporarily that you are that these sorts of affordances are absolutely

00:08:01   necessary and it's it's a cool that it's a possibility at all yeah I was I was

00:08:06   I was very thankful in those moments for,

00:08:09   yeah, both my usual need not for this stuff,

00:08:13   but then also that all of this stuff was available to me

00:08:16   in the phone I already had, with the software I already had,

00:08:19   and I, you know, I mean, partly 'cause I'm,

00:08:22   you know, because I'm a developer,

00:08:23   I know where the settings are,

00:08:24   but I was able to adjust it in seconds,

00:08:27   'cause I didn't have long.

00:08:29   Like, once the processor started accelerating,

00:08:31   I was like, oh no, I don't have long at all,

00:08:33   and I very quickly, like, was able to go do it,

00:08:35   and it was fine.

00:08:37   And the only, like, Lyft, I went back to Lyft

00:08:40   and it said you have to restart the app

00:08:41   to change your font setting. - Oh no!

00:08:43   - I'm like, all right, whatever.

00:08:45   Bad hack, okay, but I did that, it was fine after that.

00:08:47   But yeah, there were so many things

00:08:48   that were just not adjusted,

00:08:51   including some stuff in the system itself.

00:08:53   Like I was surprised, like,

00:08:54   I couldn't see my battery status, really,

00:08:57   'cause those little top parts of the status bar

00:09:00   don't adjust size, even when you put on control center,

00:09:02   like you don't even get a big version there.

00:09:04   I was kind of surprised at some of the system stuff

00:09:06   that was not embiggened by those settings.

00:09:09   But anyway, I was very thankful they were there

00:09:10   and it was very illuminating to me

00:09:13   and kind of shaming to me that like,

00:09:15   parts of my own app did not react well

00:09:17   and so I'm gonna be working on that.

00:09:19   But anyway, so here I have joined the ranks of,

00:09:22   I think most people ever that I now need some eye help

00:09:26   and well, here we go.

00:09:28   This is the start, it's a very minor start

00:09:30   but it will progress.

00:09:31   I actually, due to a previous costume need,

00:09:36   I actually own a pair of the model of glasses frames

00:09:42   that Steve Jobs wore.

00:09:44   And so I might like see if I can just get

00:09:49   reading glass lenses for those,

00:09:51   'cause like why should I buy more glasses

00:09:53   if I already have a pair that has dud lenses in it?

00:09:56   But I don't know.

00:09:57   - So this is the way you choose to save money.

00:10:00   It's not keeping the FJ Cruiser.

00:10:02   It instead it's saving on an extra set of frames.

00:10:06   I made a profit on the FJ Cruiser.

00:10:08   If you wanted to spend some money instead of saving it, now is the time listeners

00:10:16   to go to stju.org/atp, S T J U D E.org/ATP, where you too can help end childhood

00:10:24   cancer. Like for real, you can help do that.

00:10:26   That is the thing that you, the listener that I'm talking to right now,

00:10:30   You can do it. You can also help prevent forest fires. But anyway, you can go to stjude.org/ATP

00:10:35   and you can donate to help end childhood cancer. Here's the thing, cancer sucks a lot.

00:10:40   It double sucks if it's afflicting a kid. So we don't want that to happen. You don't want that to happen.

00:10:46   Why don't you go to stjude.org/ATP and throw a couple of dollars their way? Or maybe many couples of dollars?

00:10:53   Hundreds or thousands of couples of dollars their way. If you recall, ATP as a group has donated

00:10:59   We donated $21,012 because we're all jerks

00:11:01   and we're fighting with each other,

00:11:03   although Jon would argue I'm the biggest jerk of them all.

00:11:05   I'll take that as a point of pride, I guess.

00:11:07   Anyway. - I guess you kinda cheated.

00:11:08   - I don't know about that anyway.

00:11:10   We're not gonna open that conversation again,

00:11:11   but Guilame Morin, and I apologize

00:11:14   if I've butchered your name,

00:11:16   is the current top individual donor,

00:11:18   as far as I'm aware, at $7,008.

00:11:21   Thank you very much. - Nice.

00:11:23   - You have not reached out to me that I have seen

00:11:25   to collect your stickers, if you're even aware

00:11:27   that that's a thing, I'm assuming so.

00:11:28   So please find a way to reach out to me and let me know.

00:11:32   And I'm happy to send you stickers anywhere that the United States Postal Service will

00:11:35   deliver to, which is no joke, many, many, many, many countries.

00:11:38   So please reach out.

00:11:40   Additionally, breaking news as of just a few hours ago, 1Password has bought my love, at

00:11:47   least for a little while, by donating as a company $30,029.34.

00:11:53   I believe that odd number was to get the campaign as a whole past $200,000, which is amazing.

00:11:58   Amazing so thank you genuinely from the bottom of my heart one password for doing that

00:12:03   And also gee, I'm a a gee gee. I'm a I'm gonna go with that. I hope that's right fix correct me

00:12:09   I will do a maya copa on the show. Yeah, I'm gonna say not correct. Okay. Well, what would you do then?

00:12:14   John I don't know, but I'm just I'm putting I'm putting my money on not correct

00:12:18   Well, you know what? We can shame me as part of your seven thousand eight seven thousand and eight dollar donation

00:12:24   You can shame me or I will shame myself on the next episode. Just let me know

00:12:28   Well, anyways, so if you wanna end childhood cancer,

00:12:31   if you wanna support these incredible heroes

00:12:34   that are trying to end childhood cancer,

00:12:35   if you wanna support the research that they do

00:12:38   that is spread worldwide to end childhood cancer

00:12:40   not only here in America, but everywhere,

00:12:43   stjude.org/atp.

00:12:45   - Don't forget about the company match.

00:12:46   We always forget about this. - Oh, I almost did it again!

00:12:48   I almost did it again, I almost forgot, I'm sorry.

00:12:49   - So a lot of people, if you have a jobby job,

00:12:52   a lot of companies will match whatever you donate,

00:12:54   sometimes up to a limit, sometimes whatever you do.

00:12:56   So if you donate 10 bucks, they'll donate 10 bucks, right?

00:12:58   up to whatever amount, then again,

00:13:00   it might be unlimited to your company.

00:13:01   So find out if your company does that

00:13:04   and let them know that you donated.

00:13:06   So it basically doubles your donation for free.

00:13:08   Get your company to donate.

00:13:09   And if you do do a company match,

00:13:11   you can go to the URL, stjude.org/atp.

00:13:15   There's a thing on that webpage that lets you report

00:13:18   what your company donated so that it goes

00:13:20   towards the relay total to get them over the line.

00:13:22   The more important thing is that the company

00:13:24   actually sends the money and matches your donation.

00:13:26   That's the important thing.

00:13:27   Secondarily, if you want to make sure that your company

00:13:30   goes towards the total, you can do that as well.

00:13:32   - Yeah, and if for some reason it isn't on the /ATP page,

00:13:35   which I think it is, but just in case,

00:13:38   if you go to stjoe.org/relay,

00:13:40   then I am 100% sure it's there.

00:13:42   - Same page.

00:13:43   - No, they're two different pages.

00:13:46   We skip past the whole sub-fund register thing.

00:13:49   - Oh, that's right, okay.

00:13:50   - Yeah, so anyway, suffice it to say,

00:13:53   please join us in helping Relay

00:13:55   to help end childhood cancer, please and thank you.

00:13:58   This will continue throughout the month of September.

00:14:00   Please go ahead and check.

00:14:01   Oh, and by the way, I almost forgot,

00:14:03   this coming Friday, so probably within a day or two,

00:14:07   probably one of you listening to this very program,

00:14:09   on the 16th of September from noon, one true time zone

00:14:13   until 8 p.m. one true time zone

00:14:15   will be the Relay Podcast-a-thon

00:14:17   where Mike and Steven will, God willing, be together.

00:14:21   And they will be, for the first time in a few years,

00:14:22   hosting the Podcast-a-thon at,

00:14:24   Well, both of them, that is, at St. Jude.

00:14:27   I will be making an appearance. It would not surprise me.

00:14:29   I genuinely don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me

00:14:30   if my co-hosts make an appearance.

00:14:31   Maybe, maybe not. It'll be a surprise for everyone.

00:14:34   But check that out. It's a lot of fun.

00:14:35   It's eight hours, so dip in and out.

00:14:37   And, you know, stay in as much as you can,

00:14:38   but you can dip in and out. It's super-duper fun.

00:14:41   And that'll be this Friday on Twitch.

00:14:43   I think it's twitch.tv/relay.

00:14:45   I hope. I'm not 100% sure about that,

00:14:47   but you can just search. You'll find it.

00:14:48   So stjude.org/atp. Donate now.

00:14:51   A little bit more housekeeping.

00:14:53   Today, right now, this episode is the 500th episode of ATP.

00:14:58   How did that happen?

00:15:03   How is that possible?

00:15:04   - Very slowly over time.

00:15:06   - Right, like I understand mathematics

00:15:07   'cause it was like, what was it, April

00:15:09   or something like that of 2013?

00:15:10   So it's about 10 years and about 52 episodes a year.

00:15:15   So I mean, it makes sense.

00:15:17   But your intrepid hosts with a couple of asterisks

00:15:21   have recorded 500 episodes of ATP,

00:15:25   and we have not missed a week

00:15:27   since something like April of 2013 or thereabouts.

00:15:30   And I'm pretty proud of us,

00:15:33   and I'm extremely thankful for anyone

00:15:35   who has listened to any episode much,

00:15:37   and I can't imagine people who have listened to all 500.

00:15:40   There's a really great website

00:15:42   that a listener put together, catatp.fm,

00:15:45   I think that's right, catatp.fm.

00:15:47   And on there, there's some really fun statistics.

00:15:50   I'm not gonna read all these off,

00:15:52   but the great and top statistic is total length

00:15:56   of all episodes, 988 hours, 45 minutes, 14.1 seconds,

00:16:00   which is just bananas.

00:16:02   I am genuinely, as much as I'm laughing and joking,

00:16:06   I'm extremely proud of what the three of us have done.

00:16:09   I am thankful to every single listener

00:16:11   that's listened to even but a moment of those 988 hours.

00:16:16   I mean, if you think about it, when we started,

00:16:19   I had a regular jobby job.

00:16:22   In fact, it was like one or two jobby jobs

00:16:24   before my last jobby job.

00:16:26   John was about halfway maybe

00:16:28   through his most recent jobby job.

00:16:31   Marco, well you've been a disaster

00:16:33   ever since we got together,

00:16:34   so that's no surprise there.

00:16:35   But I had no children, and now I have two and a dog.

00:16:40   I mean, it has been quite a run for all three of us.

00:16:44   And God willing, as I knock furiously on wood,

00:16:48   God willing, we have another 500 in us.

00:16:49   But one way or another, I am genuinely so thankful

00:16:52   to every listener who has listened,

00:16:53   who has at least looked at a sponsor's website,

00:16:57   and who has told their friends about us,

00:17:00   who has rated us five stars on Apple Podcasts,

00:17:04   whatever thing, any of you who have done anything

00:17:07   to help us, it genuinely, from the bottom of my heart,

00:17:09   means so much to us.

00:17:10   And I would like to tell,

00:17:13   I would like to talk about the surprise

00:17:14   unless you two have anything you wanna add.

00:17:15   - No, I wanna add just, you know,

00:17:17   how awesome everyone is.

00:17:18   And the thing is, this show, I mean, look, we love doing it.

00:17:22   And the reality is, even if our listenership

00:17:26   went down to nothing, we would probably still keep doing it

00:17:28   because you can't stop the three of us

00:17:30   from talking to each other about computers and other BS.

00:17:33   (laughing)

00:17:34   That just happens when you put us together.

00:17:36   'Cause that's how the show got made,

00:17:38   and that's how it keeps, and we said in the past,

00:17:42   Making the show for us is, while it is work,

00:17:47   it is very easy in the sense that we all get along

00:17:50   really well, we love talking about this crap.

00:17:52   As I said, we'll do it no matter what.

00:17:54   And everything just, it's an easy show to keep going.

00:17:58   We have no inter-host friction or drama.

00:18:02   We have good money coming in,

00:18:04   which we'll get to in a second.

00:18:06   And we have good logistics.

00:18:08   We're all in the same time zone,

00:18:09   our internet connections are all rock solid.

00:18:11   We all show up on time, all that stuff

00:18:14   that can make things hard to make.

00:18:16   We don't have those challenges, we're very lucky.

00:18:18   We have a news-based show, and so we're not

00:18:21   a subject matter really, and you also all

00:18:24   are a little flexible on what you will tolerate

00:18:26   us talking about, which also helps a lot.

00:18:28   So it's a show that we really do enjoy making

00:18:33   and that I think has a pretty solid future

00:18:36   ahead of it in addition to the pretty damn solid past.

00:18:38   And on the money thing, I think what,

00:18:41   we are very fortunate that we have the audience

00:18:44   that we have in all of you out there,

00:18:46   because we have a very loyal audience.

00:18:50   If you look at our raw numbers,

00:18:53   our audience does not really grow over time.

00:18:56   We grew for a while, and then we kind of found our audience,

00:18:59   and we stayed there.

00:19:01   And for most kinds of businesses or startups

00:19:05   or anything on the web, content stuff mostly,

00:19:08   Once you stop growing the audience, that's like death,

00:19:11   because there's usually a whole bunch of churn

00:19:14   of people who drop off the show

00:19:17   because they aren't interested anymore,

00:19:20   or it wasn't holding their attention,

00:19:21   or they stop listening to things entirely, whatever.

00:19:25   And for our show, that doesn't happen.

00:19:28   We have a very loyal audience.

00:19:30   It's a great place to be for people

00:19:33   who create any kind of content for a living like we do,

00:19:37   because we don't need to play the games

00:19:41   or have the same level of stresses that a lot of people do.

00:19:44   We can keep showing up and doing what we do

00:19:47   and again, because it's mostly news based,

00:19:51   we have an infinite supply of that.

00:19:52   News will keep happening in the tech business,

00:19:55   especially in the Apple sphere that we usually cover.

00:19:57   So that part's good and as long as you all

00:20:00   keep showing up and listening,

00:20:02   we can largely ignore most of the crap

00:20:05   that other podcasters and other content creators

00:20:08   on other media are pressured to get into.

00:20:10   So we don't have to do weird growth hacking stuff.

00:20:13   We don't have to do that crappy dynamic ad insertion

00:20:17   of local car dealer ads.

00:20:20   We don't have to do any of that

00:20:21   because we have such a great loyal audience.

00:20:24   And so I really appreciate all of you a ton for that.

00:20:29   And the fact is that we've made 500 episodes

00:20:32   of the nerdiest stuff imaginable

00:20:35   And many of you out there have actually listened

00:20:39   to all of it.

00:20:40   Like, who else can say that?

00:20:42   There's not a lot of other shows out there

00:20:45   that can say that they've produced 500 multi-hour podcasts

00:20:50   over the span of a decade,

00:20:53   and many people in their audience have listened to all of it.

00:20:57   That's an incredible thing.

00:20:59   We are extremely lucky to have you out there

00:21:01   listening to us.

00:21:02   And so, thank you very much for that.

00:21:05   I want to give a special thanks to the listeners who write into us.

00:21:11   That is, I always feel like, kind of an unsung, you know, attribute of our show.

00:21:17   Yes, it's news based and we talk about news topics and we talk about whatever weird things

00:21:20   we're into or whatever we're buying and we talk about our lives to some degree.

00:21:24   But a lot of the best info on this show comes from our listeners because they email us,

00:21:29   tweet at us, whatever, and we have enough listeners and those listeners are nerdy enough

00:21:34   that if we talk about a topic, you know,

00:21:36   I'm gonna make something up.

00:21:37   It's like, we'll talk about mushrooms and be like,

00:21:38   we'll get an email right after the show is published.

00:21:41   I've been growing mushrooms for 50 years.

00:21:43   (laughing)

00:21:43   And it's like, what?

00:21:44   You've been growing mushrooms for 50 years?

00:21:46   You're a mushroomologist?

00:21:47   You went to, you are the head of the mushroom department

00:21:49   at some big university?

00:21:50   Like--

00:21:51   - Does one grow mushrooms or raise them or clone them?

00:21:54   What is the verb for producing mushrooms?

00:21:57   - I mean, we just had it recently

00:21:58   where they were talking about audio sync or whatever.

00:22:00   It's like, oh, I do this for a living.

00:22:01   You sync audio for a living?

00:22:03   It's like, yeah, that's a job.

00:22:04   - Yes, I do.

00:22:04   - Right, no, it's just, it's amazing.

00:22:06   Or someone's like, yeah, I did this for a living

00:22:09   back when I worked and now I'm retired.

00:22:11   And let me tell you how it was in the old days.

00:22:12   Just so many listeners with amazing knowledge.

00:22:15   And presumably they're just sitting there

00:22:16   listening to episodes for years for that one day

00:22:18   when we talk about audio and video sync.

00:22:21   And they're like, now's my time to shine.

00:22:23   And it's awesome and we love it.

00:22:24   Like they contribute so much, not just to Ask ATP

00:22:27   because we get tons of Ask ATP questions.

00:22:28   And I wanna apologize for that.

00:22:30   Like we do Ask ATP every show.

00:22:31   we try to do three questions a show if we can,

00:22:33   sometimes we have to skip it due to time constraints,

00:22:35   we get hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of questions

00:22:39   to ask ATP, and that's awesome,

00:22:41   but realize we can't actually answer them all.

00:22:42   But same thing with feedback or whatever,

00:22:45   this is just, our audience has so much knowledge,

00:22:48   and they're so specific, such specific knowledge

00:22:51   that I love that they will be able to

00:22:54   contribute to the show, right?

00:22:55   I used to get that when I wrote my long-form Mac OS X reviews

00:22:59   but by the time you publish the review,

00:23:00   it's too late for that info, but on this show,

00:23:02   there's always another episode and there's always follow-ups.

00:23:04   So I wanted to thank all the listeners for contributing.

00:23:08   And if you're out there and you have never written

00:23:10   to the show and you're like an expert

00:23:12   on like raising lizards or something,

00:23:14   just keep listening, who knows?

00:23:15   (laughing)

00:23:16   - We'll get there, we'll get there.

00:23:17   - We'll be talking about the Iguana flag Easter egg

00:23:19   on the PowerPC Mac and it'll be your time to hop in

00:23:22   and say, actually, it's not an Iguana

00:23:23   and you'll tell us all about it.

00:23:24   (laughing)

00:23:25   - Yeah, that's the thing too.

00:23:26   So we, I mean, I can assume from the two of you

00:23:31   that you probably had a similar time coming up in the world

00:23:36   as I did in the sense that we were all pretty far nerdier

00:23:41   than most of the people around us in our lives.

00:23:46   'Cause we all grew up in the early to none days

00:23:49   of the internet and so the internet has made it very easy

00:23:53   people to find other people like them for good and bad. That wasn't so much the case

00:23:58   when we were coming up. And so, you know, it was always like we were, we were the nerds.

00:24:05   And you know, that at the time that felt, it for me at least felt quite lonely a lot

00:24:09   of the times. And still in most of life, I am the nerd in the room. But this show brings

00:24:16   together all of the nerds in the rooms everywhere. Like all of you out there, there's a pretty

00:24:23   good chance. You were that nerd in the room and now you found others. And you can listen

00:24:29   to 500 episodes of us talking to and with and about other people like us. And it's a

00:24:36   very nice thing to find. In the same way I found my fish people when I went to the fish

00:24:39   concert and that's another thing that I never have any support for in the world. This is

00:24:43   the kind of thing like…

00:24:44   Jared: Nor here for them.

00:24:45   Michael: Nor here, yeah. But this is the kind of thing like, we found our people and it's

00:24:50   one of the great things that the internet makes possible.

00:24:52   And we're so lucky to have all of you out there,

00:24:56   because we can all be the nerd in the room together.

00:25:01   - I just wanna make one more pitch for my spiel

00:25:03   that I did on episode 400.

00:25:06   We usually don't do much for milestones,

00:25:07   but 500 is pretty big, and 400, I did a little thing.

00:25:11   It's in the after show.

00:25:12   If this is your first episode of ATP, I guess,

00:25:14   every 500 episodes, I should describe how the show works.

00:25:16   If this is your first episode of ATP,

00:25:18   At a certain point you'll hear someone sing a song that, well it's gonna be a different

00:25:22   song this week, but the normal song says the show is over.

00:25:26   It's not really over.

00:25:28   The show keeps going after the song for varying amounts of times.

00:25:32   That's kind of the after show.

00:25:34   In the after show of episode 400 I attempt to describe what I think people get out of

00:25:40   ATP and why we're doing it and what I think is good about it.

00:25:43   And I probably will literally never do that little speech again, so if you want to hear

00:25:46   I'm not going to do it today, but episode 400 is right out there.

00:25:49   ATP.fm/400 because we have good URLs.

00:25:52   All right. So surprise time.

00:25:54   So as a thank you to members of ATP and you can subscribe at ATP.fm/join.

00:26:01   You can go a year at a time or a month at a time.

00:26:04   And as a thank you to our members who, and we are incredibly thankful to everyone,

00:26:10   but kind of maybe especially the members.

00:26:12   As a thank you to the members we are doing for the first time,

00:26:15   exclusive content just for the members.

00:26:17   And we wanted to do something that is additive,

00:26:22   like we don't want to take away anything

00:26:23   that you're already getting.

00:26:25   And we wanted to do something that wasn't necessarily

00:26:27   our core competency, because again,

00:26:30   then it seems like maybe that's a little bit gross,

00:26:34   or at least that's the way we thought of it today.

00:26:35   You asked me again in 10 years at episode 1000,

00:26:38   where you're paying per segment or something

00:26:40   to listen to the show.

00:26:42   But sitting here now, we wanted to do something additive

00:26:44   that was a little bit out of our wheelhouse. And what we concluded was we are going to do a

00:26:50   three episode run, one episode per week, of ATP Movie Club. So the way this works is we watched,

00:26:57   the three of us watched three different movies. Each host had a chance to pick one of the movies.

00:27:03   So this week we are going to release the first episode of the three episode mini-series, that is

00:27:09   is the ATP Movie Club, and it is going to be all three

00:27:12   of us discussing the movie that Marco picked.

00:27:15   And Marco, would you like to describe what you did?

00:27:17   - Since I learned that Casey had not yet seen it,

00:27:21   the movie I chose to force him to watch

00:27:23   was My Cousin Vinny.

00:27:25   I love this movie, and you will hear why,

00:27:29   and it is, I think it's wonderful

00:27:34   to have put Casey and Jon through this.

00:27:36   Well, we'll let you hear what the two of us thought of it,

00:27:41   'cause, you know, again, all three of us watched all three movies.

00:27:43   And we're not gonna tell you what the other movies are.

00:27:45   I think we're gonna leave those as a surprise for when the episodes drop in the members-only feeds.

00:27:50   But we are starting with My Cousin Vinny.

00:27:53   I will say that the next pick was mine and the final pick was Jon's,

00:27:57   and that's all I'm going to say about that.

00:27:58   But this was a lot of fun for the three of us to do.

00:28:02   We're still doing the show after all three episodes, so I guess that's a good sign.

00:28:06   I think it was a little hit or miss for a couple of moments there, but for the most part, it was a lot of fun.

00:28:11   So that is as a thank you to members.

00:28:13   And you can go to ATP.FM/join to get these three episodes over the next three weeks.

00:28:19   As I sit here now, we, we want to do more exclusive content eventually, but we have no plans at this moment.

00:28:29   So this might not happen again till episode 1000.

00:28:31   It might not happen for a hundred episodes.

00:28:33   We honestly don't know.

00:28:34   But as a thank you to members, we wanted to do that

00:28:36   as a, in recognition of episode 500.

00:28:38   So that's what we've done.

00:28:41   And again, My Cousin Vinny as selected by Marco

00:28:43   will be the first episode that will drop

00:28:45   at some point this week.

00:28:47   - Yeah, and you know, speaking of feedback,

00:28:50   as part of what we do in the future,

00:28:51   it depends on how members feel about this.

00:28:53   Do you like it?

00:28:54   Was it fun?

00:28:55   Was it boring?

00:28:56   Do you not care about movies?

00:28:57   Let us know what you think

00:28:58   after all the episodes have aired.

00:28:59   - Yeah, and for each one, by the way,

00:29:01   like when you look at the title in the feed,

00:29:03   like watch the movie before you listen to it because there obviously will be spoilers

00:29:07   about the movies. So when you see the movie title in there, watch the movie before you

00:29:11   listen to it.

00:29:12   Yep, yep, yeah. We don't have any spoiler horn or anything like that. It's basically

00:29:15   spoiler city from the second that we start the episode. So be warned. All right. Now

00:29:21   we have to get on to the regularly scheduled programming. Thank you for letting us navel

00:29:26   gaze for just a moment.

00:29:27   Oh yeah, it's a tech podcast.

00:29:28   I have been riveted to figure out what's going on with your polarizer and lens protector John.

00:29:34   Oh no.

00:29:35   It's back baby, it's back.

00:29:37   We didn't get to do this.

00:29:38   So when John talked about polarizers in the episode before the Apple event episode, we

00:29:44   got so much feedback because half of what he said was wrong and then we couldn't cover

00:29:48   it in last week because it was the event episode and we didn't have time.

00:29:52   So we just kept getting more and more feedback.

00:29:55   Yep.

00:29:56   all the same stuff, yeah, everything you said was wrong.

00:29:59   - Not everything I said was wrong.

00:30:00   So here was the misunderstanding that I had.

00:30:02   Here was my, the main thing I was mistaken about,

00:30:05   which many, many people pointed out, of course.

00:30:07   I was talking about my polarizer

00:30:09   that I stick on the front of my interchangeable lens camera

00:30:11   and it's like a little thing that goes over the lens

00:30:13   and you can twist it.

00:30:14   And I was surprised that there was no markings on it

00:30:16   telling me like how it should be aligned or anything.

00:30:19   'Cause my, what I had in my head was that you would twist it

00:30:23   and there was a position where it was sort of like

00:30:25   at maximum effect and there was another position

00:30:27   where it was not doing anything.

00:30:29   And that's not true at all because what I had in my mind

00:30:32   was a two element system where if anyone has ever taken

00:30:35   two pairs of polarized sunglasses or two polarized pieces

00:30:37   of like, you know, material in like a, you know,

00:30:40   school laboratory or whatever, if you put them together

00:30:43   and you twist them, when they're at 90 degrees

00:30:45   to each other, like across, they'll be totally black.

00:30:48   And then when you twist them 90 degrees back the other way,

00:30:51   they're as transparent as they're gonna get.

00:30:53   but that's not how polarizers, a circular polarizer

00:30:56   that I bought and put on my camera works.

00:30:58   It only has one element, it's just a single polarizing thing

00:31:02   and so it's not twisting against any other polarized thing

00:31:05   so there is no position in which it is totally black

00:31:09   for instance or position in which it is, you know,

00:31:11   totally transparent or whatever.

00:31:13   Instead, it is just a polarizing filter

00:31:16   and it is going to let through light,

00:31:17   the waves are wiggling in one particular direction

00:31:20   or whatever, and the way you're supposed to use it is,

00:31:24   you, I mean, there's a whole bunch of people said,

00:31:26   oh, you can look at where the sun is, you can do this,

00:31:27   you can do that, but the bottom line is,

00:31:29   what light do you not want to get through,

00:31:30   and what light do you want to get through?

00:31:32   Twist, the simple answer is, twist the lens

00:31:35   until the picture looks the way you want it to look,

00:31:37   and that really is it, because it depends on what light

00:31:40   you're trying to cancel out.

00:31:41   Is it a reflection off a flat pool of water?

00:31:44   Is it a reflection off a curved car bumper?

00:31:46   Like, what are you trying to see or not see?

00:31:49   So that explains why there are no markings on it

00:31:51   because it is entirely up to you how you want to twist it

00:31:54   and how you want it to work.

00:31:56   And actually there is a filter that works the way

00:31:59   I was describing.

00:32:00   It's called a variable neutral density filter,

00:32:02   which actually is, you know,

00:32:04   we talked about neutral density filters two weeks ago.

00:32:06   It's like a way to block light

00:32:07   from getting into your camera

00:32:08   so you can have a bigger aperture

00:32:09   without blowing out the frames in your video or whatever.

00:32:12   A variable neutral density filter

00:32:13   is so you don't have to keep swapping filters.

00:32:15   It's one filter with two elements

00:32:16   that twist relative to each other,

00:32:18   to polarize elements, which was relatively

00:32:20   to become darker or lighter.

00:32:22   But anyway, I just have a brain polarizer filter.

00:32:24   But that's not the exciting part about this feedback.

00:32:26   So yes, thank you to everyone who sent me that feedback.

00:32:29   I'll put some links in the show notes of like explanations

00:32:31   of this that are more long-winded and more detailed.

00:32:35   But one person, Stepan Doelenzahl,

00:32:37   sent me a link to a MinutePhysics video

00:32:39   about polarizers.

00:32:40   And I was like, oh yeah, well, a million people sent stuff.

00:32:42   I know MinutePhysics, maybe I haven't seen this one.

00:32:44   So I started watching it again,

00:32:45   and it goes through polarization.

00:32:46   It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, great.

00:32:47   It's got some cool diagrams.

00:32:48   But then it gets into a super cool thing

00:32:51   that kind of reminds me of, I mean,

00:32:54   it kind of reminds me of the feeling I got,

00:32:56   a feeling I used to get when I would tell,

00:32:58   this is gonna sound nerdy, you tell people about--

00:33:01   - No.

00:33:02   - The feeling you get when you tell people

00:33:03   about special relativity, it's kind of like--

00:33:06   - Have you done this a lot?

00:33:08   - Yeah, this is something that you just do from time to time?

00:33:10   - When I was a kid, I used to do it, right?

00:33:11   So here's the thing.

00:33:12   - This is the least surprising thing you've ever said.

00:33:15   - I'll put a link in the show notes about this.

00:33:17   This polarizer thing, if you haven't ever seen this before,

00:33:20   it will give you a similar feeling,

00:33:22   learning about special relativity.

00:33:23   It's like special relativity, you can explain it to people,

00:33:27   or when you first learn it, in my case,

00:33:29   when you're a kid or whatever, the ideas behind it,

00:33:31   like, wait a second, everybody in the world has known,

00:33:35   it's not everybody, obviously,

00:33:36   but everyone in the world has known that this is true

00:33:39   and no one has told me,

00:33:41   and they've known it since the early 1900s.

00:33:45   Everyone has known that the speed of light is a constant

00:33:47   in any inertial frame of reference,

00:33:49   and all the consequences that come from that,

00:33:51   and no one just says anything about it.

00:33:53   You tell someone about it when they're an adult,

00:33:55   and the consequences of it, and you're like,

00:33:56   "Yeah, things shrink in their direction of motion."

00:33:58   You're like, "What do you mean things shrink?"

00:34:00   Like, well, see, the speed of light is a constant,

00:34:02   everything else, including time and space,

00:34:04   adjusts to accommodate that.

00:34:05   Like, no, that's not how anything works.

00:34:07   Like, no, yeah, that's how things work.

00:34:08   It's like, no, that's not, yeah.

00:34:10   It's like the nature of reality.

00:34:11   So many people don't, things that,

00:34:13   fundamental things that people don't know

00:34:14   about the nature of reality,

00:34:15   mostly 'cause it's not relevant to your daily life,

00:34:18   when things are not moving past each other

00:34:19   at anything approaching the speed of light,

00:34:21   so it's not relevant.

00:34:22   But when you learn that about your reality,

00:34:25   you're like, it blows your mind, and then you learn,

00:34:27   yeah, and scientists have known this

00:34:29   for like 100-something years.

00:34:31   And you're like, what?

00:34:32   And no one told me?

00:34:33   So here, the polarizer one has something like that.

00:34:36   So here's the fun polarizer thing.

00:34:38   It's in the video, so I'll put a link in the show notes

00:34:40   if you wanna watch this YouTube video.

00:34:41   It explains it probably better than I'm going to right now.

00:34:43   But remember what I said about the polarizing filters

00:34:45   and like you, you know, you twist it and it like,

00:34:47   they only let through light that is going

00:34:49   in a particular direction and they don't let through light

00:34:51   that's going in other directions, right?

00:34:53   So if you take two polarizing filters and you put,

00:34:56   you know, one filter on one end of a tube

00:34:57   and one filter on the other end of the tube, right?

00:34:59   And you shine light in one end, right?

00:35:00   If you twist those two lenses relative to each other,

00:35:03   you can adjust how much light is going through

00:35:05   because the first filter will filter out some light

00:35:06   and then you twist the other one.

00:35:07   If you twist them in 90 degrees,

00:35:08   it in theory blocks all of the light, right?

00:35:11   and if you, you know, 90 degrees relative to each other.

00:35:13   And as you align them to be facing the same direction,

00:35:16   they let through as much light as possible, right?

00:35:18   So you get these two filters,

00:35:20   one on one and one on the other, and you twist them.

00:35:22   So they're knocking out some amount of light, right?

00:35:24   And you're like, okay, I put in this amount of light,

00:35:26   and then I see the amount of light

00:35:28   that comes out the other end is like half.

00:35:29   So the amount that I've twisted them,

00:35:31   I'm knocking out half the light.

00:35:32   The exciting thing about polarizing filters is

00:35:35   if you take that arrangement,

00:35:36   two filters, one on each end of a tube,

00:35:38   light goes in, half the light comes out.

00:35:40   If you put a third filter in the middle of the tube,

00:35:43   more light can come out the end than before.

00:35:48   - What?

00:35:49   - So you got two filters, light goes in,

00:35:52   half the light comes out.

00:35:53   It's like, I know what I'll do.

00:35:54   I'll put a third filter in the middle and I'll twist it.

00:35:56   And now more light comes out the end.

00:35:58   - Okay.

00:36:00   - What?

00:36:01   - And this is one of those things that's like,

00:36:02   okay, you think you know how reality works,

00:36:05   but it's like learning about special relativity.

00:36:07   It's like, wait, that doesn't make any sense.

00:36:08   And you start bargaining with yourself about,

00:36:10   Okay, well maybe like the first filter changes the light

00:36:13   so that the second filter like changes it back

00:36:16   so more of it goes through the second one.

00:36:17   Watch the video.

00:36:18   It will probably hurt your brain a little bit,

00:36:20   probably a little bit more than special relativity does

00:36:21   'cause that's the type of thing

00:36:22   you can explain pretty easily.

00:36:24   This gets into quantum mechanics and stuff.

00:36:26   But the bottom line is the universe does not work

00:36:28   the way you think it works in many really important ways.

00:36:31   And something as simple as a pair of polarizing sunglasses

00:36:34   can show you this and then lead you to do all the experiments

00:36:38   that again scientists did like, you know, 100 years ago,

00:36:41   to learn something about reality that scientists know

00:36:43   but regular people don't, that is very, very disturbing

00:36:46   and will really make you question the nature

00:36:49   of your reality as they say on Westworld.

00:36:51   - I feel better for having had my reality rocked

00:36:57   here on the 500th episode of ATP.

00:36:59   - See, other people just take drugs.

00:37:00   We have this stuff.

00:37:01   - We have physics.

00:37:03   - Next time you go to a fish concert,

00:37:04   bring a tube and three polarizing filters with you.

00:37:07   And be like, okay, light goes in the end, light goes in.

00:37:10   Now I'm gonna put in the third filter.

00:37:11   What do you think's gonna happen?

00:37:12   Everybody's like, it's gonna block more light, dude.

00:37:14   It's like, really?

00:37:15   Ah, more light is coming out.

00:37:16   - Watch this, baby.

00:37:18   - Whoa, how does that work?

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00:39:24   Colin Robertson writes in,

00:39:29   "Regarding the iPhone's main camera focal lengths,

00:39:31   Marco mentioned that he thought most iPhones until the 14 Pro were all equivalent to be about 26 millimeters

00:39:36   I was recently wondering the same thing

00:39:38   So I gathered as much information as I could about every iPhone camera system and I put it all together in a spreadsheet which we

00:39:43   Will link in the show notes. It's an iCloud numbers document. So who knows if it'll work, but we'll see

00:39:48   Colin continues to get to the point

00:39:50   The main camera is going from 37 millimeters on the original iPhone 3GS to excuse me

00:39:55   The original iPhone through 3GS to now 24 millimeters the 4 4s and 5 were all around 30 to 32

00:40:01   My favorite focal length was in the iPhone was the 4s rights Colin

00:40:05   Then to about 28 millimeters on the 5s through the 10 then to 26 millimeters starting with the 10s generation

00:40:11   Also, John assumed that the 2x mode on the 14 Pro camera is quotes still going to be better than any 2x camera that Apple

00:40:18   Has ever shipped unfortunately quote

00:40:20   I didn't believe him because that's a pretty heavy crop doing the math on that the new substantially larger sensor

00:40:26   cropped to the 2x size will take the 9.8 by 7.3 millimeter sensor to 4.9 by

00:40:34   3.65 millimeters, which is still larger than the 4 by 3 telephoto sensors that have been all the iPhone 2x and 3x cameras. Nice!

00:40:42   Finally, Jon should use a lens hood to protect his lenses rather than a clear UV filter. God help me, here

00:40:47   we are again. They help reduce flare which results in washed out low contrast images and are better at protecting the front element than a

00:40:54   I actually do use a hood on both of my lenses,

00:40:57   and I concur with Colin on this one.

00:40:59   -Yeah, I just wanted to throw that in there

00:41:01   because of the mention of UV and the hood thing.

00:41:03   So, yes, I use hoods on all my camera lenses.

00:41:07   That's not just for safety, although, of course,

00:41:09   it does provide some safety because, you know,

00:41:11   camera goes face down on the ground

00:41:13   that'll hit the hood first and not the lens element.

00:41:15   But it also prevents, you know, glare and everything.

00:41:17   It does what the lens hood is supposed to do.

00:41:19   But if you're at the beach,

00:41:21   one of the things you're trying to protect against

00:41:23   against is water and grit and sand and who knows what else,

00:41:27   jump, being thrown by crashing waves into the lens.

00:41:31   And in that case, the lens hood is only gonna protect it

00:41:33   if it comes from the side,

00:41:34   but if it comes straight out the lens,

00:41:35   that's when you need a clear helmet in the front.

00:41:37   And we mentioned last time that sometimes they call those

00:41:40   clear screw-on things that are not polarizing or anything,

00:41:42   they're just supposed to be a clear piece of material.

00:41:44   Sometimes they call those UV filters

00:41:46   for filtering out ultraviolet light,

00:41:48   which used to be much more important on film cameras

00:41:51   because film is more sensitive to UV light, but apparently on cameras, on modern digital

00:41:55   cameras most digital sensors or parts of the imaging system of digital cameras don't pick

00:42:02   up UV anyway.

00:42:03   There was an article I think we'll link in the show notes that has like graphs of the

00:42:06   various sensors in various cameras showing what wavelengths of light they are sensitive

00:42:10   to at all and a lot of them you see a hard cut off before you start going into UV.

00:42:14   In particular my camera that I'm using, you know, you don't need a UV filter for it.

00:42:19   So they still sell them as UV filters, and they still do filter out UV, but depending

00:42:23   on your camera, especially if it's a modern digital one, it may not be particularly useful

00:42:27   for protecting against UV, but it will protect against very small rocks.

00:42:30   I'm actually very happy to hear the reports of the 2X crop on the iPhone 14 Pro actually

00:42:38   having more sensor area to work with than the previous 2X cameras did, and presumably

00:42:45   the 3X camera as well.

00:42:47   We'll see, the reviews have all been pretty minimally

00:42:51   discussing the 2X, but so far it seems like

00:42:54   they might back this up.

00:42:56   And I don't actually have a 14 per hit, none of us do yet.

00:42:59   It's coming in a couple of days, but for next week's show

00:43:02   I hope to have some kind of impression of this.

00:43:03   Because the 2X camera and the 3X camera have always,

00:43:06   as we talked about in the show,

00:43:07   been so inferior optically to the 1X camera.

00:43:11   And maybe this will help a little bit.

00:43:13   The only thing is that it's not exactly a direct comparison

00:43:16   because you're getting the reduced color resolution,

00:43:21   if that makes sense, because you're taking

00:43:23   those quad-bayer pixels and you're gonna have,

00:43:27   the resulting pixels are gonna have

00:43:29   a different bayer arrangement than they would've

00:43:31   on a sensor dedicated just to that focal length.

00:43:33   You're gonna have the four, the clusters of four

00:43:36   of each color together and you'll be relying

00:43:38   on the raw algorithms to demosaic that color-wise, I guess,

00:43:44   and to interpret what the color should be,

00:43:46   and they're gonna be lower resolution on that input data

00:43:50   because of the clustering of those quad pixels.

00:43:52   So it isn't exactly a direct comparison,

00:43:56   but in practice, the sensors were so crappy

00:43:59   on the 2X and 3X cameras before

00:44:00   that this is probably gonna be an improvement anyway

00:44:03   just 'cause it is getting larger pixels

00:44:06   even though you have that issue of the reduced color detail.

00:44:10   - Yeah, that's the math that Colin did

00:44:11   because he didn't believe my mostly snarky comment

00:44:14   about it still being better than the 2X.

00:44:15   However, you do the math and the cropped sensor

00:44:18   that they're using for the 2X is still bigger

00:44:20   than any 2X or 3X sensor that Apple has shipped.

00:44:24   - Satellite location sharing.

00:44:27   If you're on an adventure, writes Apple,

00:44:28   without cell service, you can now use Find My

00:44:31   to share your location via satellite

00:44:33   so friends and family know where you are.

00:44:35   I feel like they mentioned this extremely briefly

00:44:37   in the keynote and then blew right by it.

00:44:39   - Yep, they did.

00:44:40   - Well, so since satellite isn't,

00:44:41   like this feature isn't shipping yet,

00:44:43   I forget what the date it is, but we'll talk more

00:44:45   about delayed dates in a little bit.

00:44:46   But anyway, we won't be able to test this

00:44:48   even when we get our phones.

00:44:50   My question is, okay, so I understand the feature,

00:44:53   but does it work by me having to pause in my hike

00:44:55   every once in a while and do that thing

00:44:57   where I point my phone at the satellite,

00:44:58   or does it happen ambiently with my phone in my backpack?

00:45:01   - I'm pretty sure you have to send it.

00:45:03   And the one thing is, so this is,

00:45:06   the way the emergency SOS via satellite feature

00:45:08   was advertised in the keynote,

00:45:10   and everything we know about it so far,

00:45:12   it seems like it is, with this exception,

00:45:16   only able to be used as a 911,

00:45:20   to actually get emergency responder help.

00:45:23   And so you wouldn't wanna use that

00:45:26   if it's not really an emergency.

00:45:28   If you just wanna send a message to somebody,

00:45:31   it would be inappropriate to use that service to do it.

00:45:34   But they said, outside of an emergency situation,

00:45:37   you can still use the satellite service they're providing

00:45:40   to send your location to people upon command,

00:45:44   so periodically.

00:45:45   So if you're out on a hike in the middle of nowhere,

00:45:47   you can send your location once or twice a day

00:45:50   or whatever it is to your spouse or whoever,

00:45:53   your people at home.

00:45:54   You can send it to them to say,

00:45:55   hey look, I was on top of this mountain today.

00:45:57   In case you need to know where I am,

00:45:59   in case something happens,

00:46:01   here's where I was a few hours ago or something like that.

00:46:03   So you can do that.

00:46:04   Now, I do wonder, are people gonna like

00:46:07   devise meanings for things?

00:46:09   Remember when you were growing up,

00:46:11   being the nerd in the room,

00:46:12   and you would need your parents

00:46:14   to pick you up from somewhere,

00:46:15   and you learned about collect calls,

00:46:17   and so you'd go to the nearest pay phone,

00:46:19   and you wouldn't put a quarter in.

00:46:20   You'd call collect to your parents,

00:46:23   and it would ask you for your name,

00:46:24   and you'd be like, "Hey, Mom, can you pick me up now, bye?"

00:46:26   And then your mom would get a phone call,

00:46:29   "Would you like to accept a collect call

00:46:30   "from, hey, Mom, can you pick me up now, bye?"

00:46:32   - As if your reading glasses story

00:46:33   didn't already make people think you're old.

00:46:35   None of the kids have any idea what you're talking about.

00:46:38   - Right, so in the absence of a proper communication channel

00:46:43   that you wanted to use, you would fake this kind of

00:46:46   sideband capability of this other channel

00:46:48   that you could use.

00:46:49   Well, I wonder, are you gonna devise a system with like,

00:46:52   okay, well, if my location is on the north side

00:46:57   of a little tiny hill, it means I want you

00:47:02   to deliver me a pizza.

00:47:03   If your location is on the east side,

00:47:06   It means I just saw a funny looking animal.

00:47:09   I wonder if people will do stuff like that.

00:47:12   - Nobody's gonna know what a collect call is.

00:47:13   And if I try to explain it now,

00:47:15   you're just gonna cut it out, aren't you?

00:47:16   - No, 'cause our listeners, somebody out there

00:47:19   was like the head engineer who designed collect calls.

00:47:22   (laughing)

00:47:24   - Yeah, we'll put a link in the show

00:47:25   and still collect calls.

00:47:26   It's not that interesting except to appreciate

00:47:28   modern technology and how lucky you are

00:47:30   to never have had to deal with this.

00:47:31   And also, and I would say the really more visceral part

00:47:35   dealing with collect calls and stuff like that, is the idea that as children we would

00:47:41   all just be waiting at the school for our parents to pick us up with no way to communicate

00:47:45   with them because we don't have a quarter for the phone and there's no one home to get

00:47:49   our collect call because our parents are at work or on the road or whatever and we don't

00:47:53   know their work number or if they're on the road we can't call them.

00:47:55   And so you just sit there at the school and there'd just be a bunch of kids sitting out

00:47:58   in front of the school just waiting, just waiting, half an hour, hour.

00:48:02   Sometimes you think about it, I could probably walk home, how far is it?

00:48:04   and you're like, "Ah, I'd walk along the highway,

00:48:06   "that seems dangerous," so you just sit there waiting.

00:48:08   And you assume your parents are gonna come

00:48:09   pick you up at some point.

00:48:10   That's an experience most kids don't have these days.

00:48:12   These days, they wanna get picked up,

00:48:14   they wanna get picked up now,

00:48:15   and if you're not there immediately,

00:48:16   something is wrong and they're nagging you

00:48:19   via text or whatever, we just have to sit at the school

00:48:21   and wait and assume someone will come and get us.

00:48:22   - If you're not there immediately,

00:48:23   they'll just summon their own Lyft from their phone.

00:48:25   (laughing)

00:48:27   - Charge it to your credit card or use their Apple Pay Cash.

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00:50:28   - All right, moving right along, Apple Watch S8 chip.

00:50:36   This is the chip in the brand new Apple Watch.

00:50:39   Apparently it's basically the same as the S6 and the S7.

00:50:42   Cool.

00:50:43   - I mean, that would explain why they didn't really

00:50:44   talk about it, you know?

00:50:46   The Apple Watch, they haven't really upgraded

00:50:49   the internals at all in the processing area,

00:50:53   and so they're doing it in other ways.

00:50:54   Now, there was some speculation about this possibly being related to the manufacturing

00:50:59   process they're using.

00:51:00   These are all still apparently 7nm chips by some people's figuring.

00:51:06   And so maybe they're waiting for yields and stuff on 3nm to be able to jump to that

00:51:12   for next year's models.

00:51:14   Maybe it's not worth the cost to use those super advanced process nodes because maybe

00:51:19   in the case of the watch, maybe the processor is not a major consumer of power.

00:51:24   it's much more about the radios and the screen.

00:51:26   Who knows?

00:51:27   But, and certainly the exercise sensor,

00:51:29   you know, the LEDs that measure all the heart rate

00:51:32   and all that stuff, those are all pretty big

00:51:34   power consumers, so maybe it doesn't matter

00:51:35   as much for the watch.

00:51:37   I do think that this is an area where,

00:51:39   keep in mind that the watch is one of Apple's

00:51:42   least expensive products that has the

00:51:45   custom silicon chips in it, so cost is a major factor there.

00:51:49   And we also have to keep in mind that yields

00:51:52   on these chips and on the new processes

00:51:55   are constrained in some way.

00:51:56   And I think this is one thing that I think

00:51:59   has been under-discussed about the iPhone 14

00:52:03   versus 14 Pro with the 14 keeping last year's chip

00:52:06   instead of getting the new chip.

00:52:07   I think that might have something to do with process yields.

00:52:11   And certainly if it doesn't have to do with it this year,

00:52:13   it might have to do with it next year

00:52:15   if they jump to three nanometer for the A17, right?

00:52:20   and then they had the A16 for the mainstream phone.

00:52:25   We have to keep in mind that when Apple,

00:52:28   Apple's scale is immense,

00:52:30   and especially with their headlining product of the iPhone,

00:52:34   they have to make so many of the damn things

00:52:37   that supply becomes a really strong constraint

00:52:40   in a lot of these areas.

00:52:41   And so when they have to make decisions like,

00:52:45   do we put the A16 in the iPhone 14 or just the 14 Pro,

00:52:50   One of the things that has to go into that is,

00:52:52   can we make enough of them to put them in all of our phones

00:52:55   from this model year?

00:52:56   And then to keep putting them into next year

00:53:00   and the year after that as the mainstream phone

00:53:01   becomes the cheaper one, do we have enough for that?

00:53:04   And if they separate out the newest chip

00:53:09   to only be in the pro phone,

00:53:12   then that allows them to make more aggressive decisions

00:53:17   in what components they use and what techniques

00:53:19   manufacturing processes they can use because they don't need as many of them.

00:53:22   And I wonder to what degree that filters down to their other products too, like the watch.

00:53:26   The watch, as I mentioned, it's a very inexpensive product, so it can afford super expensive

00:53:31   components compared to the other ones.

00:53:34   And it's something where the processor does seem to matter a lot less.

00:53:39   Even if my hypothesis is wrong that it's not a massive power consumer, you can at least

00:53:44   look and say, "Well, look, they just released the same processor three years in a row for

00:53:48   the watch and no one seems to care. So obviously it's not that important to the market, you

00:53:52   know. So either way, like, I think those angles of like of yields and availability of new

00:53:59   components for their volume, I think we often don't think of that as a possible justification

00:54:05   for some of the choices they make. But in this case, I think that's very likely to have

00:54:08   played a role, especially given the weird situation we have with COVID and supply chain

00:54:12   and chips and everything else. So that might have played a role here of why they just sat

00:54:16   on this for a while.

00:54:18   They're also now probably achieving

00:54:20   some pretty great efficiencies in the sense

00:54:22   that they are using what seem to be the same CPU cores

00:54:26   in the entire current Apple Watch lineup.

00:54:30   From the SE all the way to the Ultra,

00:54:33   they are apparently using the same cores.

00:54:35   Not the same overall chip package,

00:54:38   but the same cores it seems.

00:54:40   And so that has to play some role.

00:54:41   Plus those same cores are going into,

00:54:43   I believe the HomePod Mini has those already,

00:54:46   And I think the rumor is that the next home pod

00:54:48   will have the same ones.

00:54:50   So, like the next big home pod will have the same ones.

00:54:53   So, you know, they're achieving a lot of efficiencies here

00:54:56   and there's probably good reasons for that.

00:54:58   - I'm still excited to get my new watch.

00:55:00   And apparently you have some things to talk about

00:55:02   in this department, which we'll get to in a little bit.

00:55:05   Apple has delayed iCloud shared photo library for iOS 16.

00:55:10   This is a bummer, but I much prefer them taking a pause

00:55:15   to make sure it is absolutely rock solid,

00:55:18   rather than saying, "Yolo, we'll ship it

00:55:20   "and see what happens."

00:55:21   So I am begrudgingly behind this decision

00:55:25   if they feel like it's necessary.

00:55:27   - There's a bunch of features that are delayed.

00:55:28   I mean, this is the new way Apple works,

00:55:30   is they announce a bunch of features for their new OS,

00:55:32   and then when the new OS ships,

00:55:33   some of those features aren't gonna make it.

00:55:35   Usually they're getting better about knowing

00:55:37   which those are, so when they give the presentation,

00:55:39   "Here is iOS 16," and they tell you about the features,

00:55:41   and they'll, one or two of them will say,

00:55:43   "I'm coming later this fall."

00:55:44   Like, they don't all make lunch, right?

00:55:46   Sometimes we just forget about them.

00:55:48   They're delayed so long.

00:55:49   I can't even remember what those features are.

00:55:50   But occasionally, there's been a feature

00:55:51   that hasn't come out for like six months, eight months.

00:55:53   That's a bummer when that happens.

00:55:55   Sometimes they don't ship at all, like AirPower.

00:55:57   But yeah, the shared photo library is not shipping.

00:56:00   In some sense, it makes sense because your photo library

00:56:03   is the point of it, iCloud photo libraries,

00:56:05   for it to be shared across all your devices.

00:56:08   And if you go all in on the shared photo library

00:56:11   and you move everything to a shared one,

00:56:13   you won't be able to see those photos on your devices that

00:56:16   don't support this yet.

00:56:17   And of course, iOS 16 is out, but iPad OS 16 is not out.

00:56:21   Mac OS Ventura is not out.

00:56:23   So it would be weird to have it only on your phone

00:56:26   to move everything into a shared library

00:56:28   and then just have your pictures disappear

00:56:30   from your Mac and your iPad.

00:56:31   So they still have to deal with that situation, obviously.

00:56:35   They could probably have some big screen that says, hey,

00:56:37   by doing this, we noticed that you are signed

00:56:39   into a bunch of devices that are not running Ventura, that

00:56:42   They're not running iPad OS 16.1.

00:56:44   And so just so you know, any picture you put into the shared library is not going to be

00:56:47   as old on those devices anymore.

00:56:48   If you're fine with that, go ahead.

00:56:49   You know, they still have to put all that logic in.

00:56:51   This doesn't really solve any compatibility or messaging problems for them.

00:56:55   But yeah, I would rather have it bake a little bit longer if that's what they need.

00:56:59   Even if they're just doing it for like, well, there's no rush and the maximum benefit of

00:57:03   the feature will come out when all the OSes come out.

00:57:05   You know, take your time.

00:57:06   I you know this is one of those features that I'm gonna have a difficult time

00:57:10   Being wise about right like the wise thing to do would be oh, let's let someone else try it with their 100,000

00:57:18   Library and see how it goes

00:57:21   But I want to use I've waited so long as future

00:57:24   I want to use it like day one

00:57:26   And it's gonna be all I can do to like sort of cautiously like make the library very carefully

00:57:30   And then now you put ten photos into it. Let me put a hundred photos into it

00:57:33   You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna want to use it pretty quickly

00:57:36   I'm thinking I'm gonna be one of those early adopters. So I really hope it doesn't bite me. So please Apple release it when it's ready

00:57:42   We had a really good tweet from Dan angler who writes motion to call the wobbly animated successor to the notch the splotch

00:57:50   Very good I

00:57:54   Motion approved not a not a name that you would think Apple is going to choose its but I thought it was clever

00:58:00   There's lots of other plenty names that get thrown in there, but I feel like after what you know a week or two of

00:58:05   the Dynamic Island

00:58:08   floating around

00:58:10   I

00:58:11   Think there's a possibility

00:58:13   That within the Apple nerd circle the island might end up having some staying power because dynamic island like lost

00:58:21   Yeah, it's just dynamic island is just too many syllables

00:58:25   Yeah

00:58:25   You got everyone's gonna put it in their reviews because you have to because it's a branded feature capital D capital I dynamic island

00:58:30   and there's probably a TM after it, who knows.

00:58:33   But when talking about it, well, here's two things.

00:58:35   One, you have to call it something, right?

00:58:37   Like the developer API, as I think Steve Droughton Smith

00:58:40   pointed out, or maybe he was a Guy Rambo,

00:58:42   like it's called Dynamic Island in the API, right?

00:58:45   For the, you know, the live activities or whatever.

00:58:48   Like they have to call it something.

00:58:49   Like for example, API is related to the doc on the Mac.

00:58:52   They have doc in the name, 'cause what the hell?

00:58:54   You have to give it a name, right?

00:58:55   It's one of the hard problems in computer science.

00:58:57   What do I call the doc API?

00:58:58   Is they gonna have doc in the name?

00:59:00   what are the APIs related to providing views

00:59:03   that are going to compose themselves

00:59:05   into the dynamic island?

00:59:06   Dynamic island is right there in the API name.

00:59:08   So developers at least are gonna have to keep seeing

00:59:11   and auto-completing that long name.

00:59:14   And so that will cement it into their minds.

00:59:17   But then when you're writing help text

00:59:19   or when you're communicating with users

00:59:21   or when you're doing anything related to that,

00:59:23   you have to communicate to people who use your application.

00:59:29   What is that, the splotch?

00:59:30   Like you have to call it something.

00:59:32   I don't think you're gonna wanna call it

00:59:33   the dynamic island 'cause no one knows what that is,

00:59:35   but I think island might catch on as the,

00:59:38   I said on the last show, there's nothing in a user,

00:59:41   in the computer user interface

00:59:42   that has used the name island before.

00:59:44   We used pallet, doc, bar, toolbar,

00:59:48   all sorts of words for interface elements,

00:59:50   obviously window, all that other stuff, right?

00:59:53   But island has not been one of them.

00:59:55   And I think Apple may be able to make Island happen

00:59:59   as a thing specifically for this blob

01:00:02   on this particular phone.

01:00:04   If this feature is copied by other phone makers,

01:00:07   'cause it's pretty easy to copy,

01:00:08   they already have a whole bunch of displays everywhere,

01:00:10   just no one has done this exact thing

01:00:12   in terms of making it look like the interface element

01:00:15   is growing and shrinking and all that other stuff,

01:00:17   maybe they'll call their things something Island 2,

01:00:21   or maybe people will just casually call it,

01:00:22   oh yeah, my phone has an Island 2,

01:00:24   kind of like hole punch camera,

01:00:26   which is a generic term for a, you know,

01:00:28   somewhere in a screen where there's pixels all around it

01:00:30   that light up, but there's no pixels light up here

01:00:32   because something, you know,

01:00:34   has to see through there or whatever.

01:00:36   So we'll see.

01:00:37   I don't think the splotch has staying power,

01:00:39   although it's very clever.

01:00:40   I'm glad it's not the pill.

01:00:41   The black hole is no good.

01:00:44   Dynamic island is silly, but maybe island,

01:00:46   maybe that'll work.

01:00:48   - Oh, we did learn from the review on the Verge today

01:00:51   of the iPhone 14 Pro.

01:00:53   we learned a little bit about what that display engine on the A16 is doing. They mentioned

01:01:00   in the keynote that it was somehow involved in special anti-aliasing for the dynamic island.

01:01:08   And we were kind of wondering what that meant. And so what the Virg said was that apparently

01:01:13   the dynamic island itself, like as it's being rendered, the edges of it use sub-pixel anti-aliasing.

01:01:21   And nowhere else in iOS uses this.

01:01:24   And this is something that, I mean,

01:01:26   when this was first done, I think in Windows,

01:01:28   I believe it was called ClearType, was that what it was called?

01:01:31   Where the idea of using the RGB sub pixels

01:01:36   individually to kind of represent like the anti-aliasing

01:01:39   blur on an edge of something to make things look

01:01:43   even sharper than they otherwise would have

01:01:45   with just using whole pixels.

01:01:47   And so, and you know, it's a great technique.

01:01:50   And Mac OS supported this for a while

01:01:53   with that weird preference that seemed to do the opposite

01:01:56   of what it said it was doing, that weird checkbox.

01:01:59   And I think they dropped that a while back,

01:02:01   but iOS has never done it.

01:02:03   And it kind of makes sense if you think about,

01:02:05   sub pixel anti-aliasing requires you to know

01:02:08   the arrangement of the sub pixels

01:02:10   when you're rendering something.

01:02:11   And on iOS, you support screen rotation.

01:02:15   And therefore, if you supported sub pixel AA in iOS,

01:02:19   every time the screen rotated, you would have to re-render

01:02:23   anything that was subpixel anti-aliased.

01:02:26   And there's also a whole bunch of other things

01:02:28   that make it challenging with things like capturing shots

01:02:31   of things for animations.

01:02:33   There's a whole bunch of challenging problems

01:02:36   and kinda gotchas using subpixel anti-aliasing.

01:02:39   - Compositing in particular, like that's one of the main

01:02:42   reasons that Apple dropped it, even before they went Retina,

01:02:44   because arguably you could say, well you don't need it

01:02:46   in Retina 'cause the pixels themselves are small enough.

01:02:48   But even, I think even before retina,

01:02:51   it made sense to drop because when you composite

01:02:53   with the subpixels, when you do subpixel onto aliasing,

01:02:56   you may just light up one of the, in the max case,

01:02:59   one of the three subpixels,

01:03:00   so maybe it's just the red subpixel.

01:03:02   But now you've got a little red turd there, right?

01:03:05   And when you're compositing that layer with another layer,

01:03:08   it's not the color it's supposed to be.

01:03:10   Like say the background is white, right?

01:03:12   It's not white, it's red,

01:03:14   'cause you just turned on the red subpixel

01:03:15   and you didn't turn on the green or the blue one at all.

01:03:18   And so when you composite it,

01:03:19   red mixes in with the thing behind it,

01:03:21   but that's not right.

01:03:21   It's supposed to be white mixing in with it.

01:03:23   And it adds lots of complexities to,

01:03:26   sub-pixel anti-autos has lots of complexities

01:03:28   to compositing.

01:03:28   And then once you're in retina,

01:03:30   it's like, well, the regular pixels are small enough.

01:03:32   And so it makes, and then you don't have to wear a rotation.

01:03:34   And then on top of all that,

01:03:36   the phones don't even have a red, a green,

01:03:38   and a blue sub-pixel for each pixel on the screen.

01:03:42   They think they, even the current iTunes uses

01:03:44   that pen tile display where every pixel

01:03:46   doesn't even have its own red and green and blue.

01:03:47   like they share a green between the adjacent pixels

01:03:50   and they're arranged in this weird diamond pattern.

01:03:52   We'll find a link for the show notes to look this up.

01:03:54   But it's not even like there's three little stripes,

01:03:56   red, green, and blue, like on a Trinitron display

01:03:59   on phone things for a variety of reasons.

01:04:00   Again, you don't notice this 'cause it's super tiny,

01:04:02   but if you look at the Verge video,

01:04:04   you see the sub-pixel arrangement,

01:04:06   you can see it looks like this weird honeycomb.

01:04:07   It looks like whatever that interface,

01:04:09   we never came up with a name with that.

01:04:10   Speaking of names for things,

01:04:11   what the hell is that called on the watch

01:04:12   where there's like a big honeycomb hive of app icons?

01:04:15   - Oh, it's called GridView,

01:04:17   even though it's not a grid.

01:04:19   Everyone calls it the Honeycomb with Apple.

01:04:21   - Yeah, anyway, it's kind of like that filled with pixels

01:04:24   and you can kind of see how it's working.

01:04:26   Although I don't think that necessarily explains

01:04:29   the display unit because you could do that,

01:04:31   you could do that on the CPU, you could do that on the GPU.

01:04:34   Why is it that we need this other display engine thing?

01:04:37   Like I don't have a good textile explanation for that

01:04:39   but maybe it's related to that.

01:04:41   But at any rate, you can look in the video

01:04:42   and you can see they are doing some pixelizing around the,

01:04:46   I was about to say the notch around the island.

01:04:48   (laughing)

01:04:49   Another thing from the Verge video,

01:04:50   which is kind of disappointing,

01:04:52   although in hindsight I should have thought of this.

01:04:54   Like we don't have our phones yet,

01:04:55   but if you see it on video,

01:04:57   OLED screens, you just don't turn on the pixels,

01:04:59   so they're totally black.

01:05:01   But the reflectivity, like how much light bounces off

01:05:05   a screen pixel that's not on,

01:05:06   and how much light bounces off the actual hole

01:05:09   that leads to the camera, is different.

01:05:11   And so in sunlight,

01:05:12   even though the dynamic island is doing its thing,

01:05:15   you can see within the totally blacked out area,

01:05:19   the slightly differently black area

01:05:22   that is the face ID thing that is the front facing camera.

01:05:26   So it kind of ruins the illusion.

01:05:27   Indoors you can't see it, but outdoors in sunlight,

01:05:30   you can see that there is a slightly differently black thing

01:05:34   inside the larger splotch.

01:05:36   - And then finally, very quickly,

01:05:39   many moons ago we discussed a story

01:05:42   about how Ubiquiti had had a really terrible breach

01:05:46   and had lost a bunch of confidential

01:05:48   and private information about their customers.

01:05:52   And it later turned out to be an inside job

01:05:55   because some, I don't remember the details,

01:05:58   but it was like somebody had gotten fired

01:05:59   or wanted to, or was playing some sort of stock game

01:06:02   where they really wanted Ubiquiti to have problems.

01:06:06   And I just wanted to take note very quickly

01:06:08   that Krebs, which was the original news source

01:06:11   broke the story has unequivocally walked back their reporting and said in a way that Bloomberg

01:06:16   is apparently incapable of that they were dead wrong and they shouldn't have run it

01:06:21   and I think they've actually pulled the original story off their website and so on and so forth

01:06:24   so I just wanted to very quickly acknowledge that.

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01:08:19   - We bought some stuff, probably, maybe.

01:08:26   - So I will say the ordering process once again proves

01:08:30   that the Apple Store app on iOS is the best way

01:08:33   to be doing this.

01:08:33   - Hard to agree, but we shouldn't be telling people that.

01:08:35   That should be our member perk.

01:08:37   is how do you most efficiently order an iPhone?

01:08:40   But yes, the answer is the Apple Store app.

01:08:42   - So I was very pleasantly surprised that in past years,

01:08:46   and I'm not part of the iPhone upgrade program,

01:08:50   but in past years, even those of us

01:08:52   who were not in the upgrade program,

01:08:53   we had the option to bookmark or favorite

01:08:56   whatever we wanted to buy before buying time.

01:08:59   So you could go the day before

01:09:00   and set everything up and configure it and favorite it,

01:09:03   and then at buying time, you'd just go like,

01:09:04   oh, go into your favorites,

01:09:05   then you jump right there and you'd save a few steps.

01:09:08   But you still have to go through a lot.

01:09:10   This year, we got what I've heard

01:09:13   upgrade program people have gotten before,

01:09:15   which is this year, you could go through

01:09:18   almost the entire process ahead of time.

01:09:21   Anybody could, upgrade program or not.

01:09:23   And you could go through everything,

01:09:24   like are you trading in a phone?

01:09:25   Are you replacing this phone on your AT&T,

01:09:27   kind of like everything.

01:09:29   Go through the entire thing,

01:09:30   even put in whether you're using Apple Pay or not.

01:09:34   put in everything and have that ready to go

01:09:36   and then as soon as opening time happened,

01:09:39   you could tap two buttons and it was done.

01:09:42   And I was very happy to see that.

01:09:44   It worked perfectly for me.

01:09:46   It was weird how they chose who to let in.

01:09:48   I was pleased to see that it auto-refreshed the page

01:09:51   so you didn't have to keep force quitting the app.

01:09:53   I did anyway.

01:09:53   - Oh, is that right?

01:09:54   I did not know that.

01:09:55   - Yeah, I had it open in my web browser too

01:09:57   and it auto-refreshed.

01:09:58   I was very happy to see that.

01:10:00   - This is one of the few times

01:10:01   that I actually endorse force quitting

01:10:03   because in years past that hasn't been true.

01:10:05   And even because what you're basically trying to,

01:10:07   you're on like a waiting screen and you're like,

01:10:09   okay, but do I just sit here and stare at the screen

01:10:11   and it will eventually let me in?

01:10:13   And one way to sort of avoid having to wonder that

01:10:17   is just kill the app and then relaunch it.

01:10:19   Because when it relaunches, you see a little spinner

01:10:20   and it tries and if you get the waiting screen,

01:10:22   it can, you know, so anyway, I heard lots of people say,

01:10:24   oh, it auto refreshes, you don't have to do that.

01:10:26   But I don't think anybody knows

01:10:28   what the auto refresh interval is.

01:10:29   And if the interval is less than you can furiously

01:10:32   force quit and relaunch the app,

01:10:33   still might get in slightly faster by force quitting and relaunching the app. But yeah,

01:10:37   it's probably better to not do that and just sit there and wait patiently.

01:10:41   I was also pleased to see that nothing was really backordered or out of stock or like

01:10:47   having dates slip for quite a while. Like if you wanted something on day one, unless

01:10:52   you were going for things that I wasn't seeing, you could get it very easily. And in fact,

01:10:57   that applied for me not only to the phones, which I ordered first, but I thought for sure

01:11:02   the AirPod Pros would be instantly back ordered.

01:11:06   And not only were they not instantly back ordered,

01:11:08   they weren't even back ordered like halfway through the day.

01:11:11   Like I went back at like noon and they still,

01:11:13   it was still day one delivery with custom engraving.

01:11:17   So that I was very pleased to see.

01:11:20   It seems like, if I had to guess,

01:11:22   it seems like the AirPod Pros have been done

01:11:25   and ready for a while and they were gonna be

01:11:26   just holding it for the phone event.

01:11:28   but they seemed to have plenty of stock of those.

01:11:33   So that was very nice to see.

01:11:34   So overall, that was very positive for me as an experience,

01:11:39   and possibly the smoothest mad rush iPhone buying experience

01:11:43   I've had yet.

01:11:45   - My experience was less easy.

01:11:48   I think ultimately, let me just start by saying

01:11:50   before I get a bunch of emails,

01:11:51   I think a lot of this might have been user error,

01:11:54   but I have three phones coming to me on Friday,

01:11:58   as it turns out, because I made mistakes.

01:12:01   So I had done the pre-registration,

01:12:03   or whatever they called it, I forget what they called it,

01:12:04   but I had done the pre-registration

01:12:05   to get everything squared away,

01:12:06   just like Marco was talking about.

01:12:07   I really liked that, it was really good.

01:12:09   For the first time, I wanted to go ahead

01:12:12   and do store pickup, and the reason I wanted to do that

01:12:15   was because I live near-ish a major corporate,

01:12:20   like white collar office area, don't be creepy.

01:12:24   - That's all of America, Casey.

01:12:25   - Well, fair.

01:12:26   - That doesn't narrow it down at all.

01:12:27   - Well, but I'm near enough that I think the UPS truck

01:12:31   that covers this major office area also covers me.

01:12:34   So I think, this is based on no facts at all,

01:12:37   but I think what happens is the UPS truck goes

01:12:40   and does all the businesses during business hours,

01:12:42   and then once that's all taken care of,

01:12:43   oh, I guess we can go and take care

01:12:46   of all the individual homes and whatnot that are nearby.

01:12:49   So my deliveries from UPS are always like five, six, seven,

01:12:53   nine in the evening.

01:12:56   So I thought, you know what, I'm gonna try it.

01:12:58   I wanna do in-store pickup.

01:13:00   I'd squared away just my phone, I got it all ready to rock,

01:13:03   and I go, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop.

01:13:04   I would like in-store pickup, I'll do whatever time,

01:13:06   I don't care, early as I can, go, go, go, go, go!

01:13:08   And there was an issue on the Apple Pay screen,

01:13:10   where you would normally see the check mark

01:13:11   with the blue circle around it,

01:13:12   the blue check mark with the blue circle.

01:13:14   I saw a blue circle with an exclamation point.

01:13:17   In typical Apple fashion, that tells me nothing.

01:13:23   What's wrong?

01:13:24   Is my payment bad?

01:13:25   Is my pickup time bad?

01:13:26   Who knows?

01:13:27   It doesn't matter.

01:13:28   All we know is it didn't work.

01:13:30   And I'm like frantically just freaking out,

01:13:33   trying to figure out what am I supposed to do

01:13:35   to fix this problem?

01:13:36   You haven't told me what the problem is.

01:13:37   You've just said, nope.

01:13:38   It's like radar in Apple Store form.

01:13:41   But anyways, I go back through,

01:13:43   if I recall correctly,

01:13:44   went through on Apple Pay the second time,

01:13:46   and it was after I hit the, you know,

01:13:49   double tap the lock button or whatever you wanna call it,

01:13:52   that I realized, oh, this says delivery on it.

01:13:55   So then I figured, all right, well, selfishly,

01:13:59   I'm covered, it'll come on Friday, I'll be fine.

01:14:01   At this point, I gotta take care of Aaron's phone,

01:14:03   which admittedly I should have done already.

01:14:05   I take the fall on that.

01:14:06   I had a bad husband morning that morning.

01:14:09   I should take care of Aaron's phone and screw it,

01:14:11   I'll see if I can just do mine at the same time.

01:14:13   So now that I have a little bit of a parachute

01:14:15   in that I already have a $1,400 order coming my way,

01:14:19   I decide, okay, I'm gonna go and take my time,

01:14:21   would go through it. And I think I had originally had an order time like 8.15 at the Apple Store.

01:14:27   Now my order time has dropped, oh woe is me, to like 8.45. But then I was able to send

01:14:31   through both phones for in-store pickup and I think all is well. At this point, I don't

01:14:37   want to mess with the system because I'm scared I'm going to screw something up. So I don't

01:14:40   want to cancel it at all for at least the first 24 hours. And I don't think they let

01:14:43   you anyway.

01:14:44   This is like a "don't touch anything" situation. It's like, "All right, I got the orders in."

01:14:49   Even if it's not quite, I might have to adjust it tomorrow, but just yeah, just don't touch

01:14:53   it.

01:14:54   - Exactly.

01:14:55   I had looked on like Saturday, and I think I'd looked on Sunday, and I'd looked on both

01:14:58   the app and on the website, and nowhere could I find a cancel button for the individual

01:15:04   iPhone order, the one that's shipped.

01:15:06   So I think it was Monday morning, I finally go on, you know, do a little Apple chat, and

01:15:09   the person basically said in so many words, "It's already shipped, tough no-gies."

01:15:13   So my first phone is sitting in Louisville and should be here at some point Friday.

01:15:19   And then hypothetically, if you're in the Richmond area and want to run into me, you

01:15:24   can find me at the Apple Store at 8.45 in the morning or thereabouts this coming Friday.

01:15:29   So I will need to return the phone that I bought.

01:15:33   So man, it was a journey, y'all.

01:15:34   It was a journey.

01:15:36   But hopefully in a couple of days, I will be squared away.

01:15:38   Jon, what did you do?

01:15:39   Speaking of Apple Pay stuff and the little blue exclamation point thing, last week I

01:15:46   had a thing, I was buying something, I think it was an Etsy, I think I was buying something

01:15:49   for my daughter, and I tried to check out what Apple Pay is, I usually do, and it was

01:15:53   like "oh, your shipping address is invalid" and just to be clear, my shipping address

01:15:58   hasn't changed in more than 20 years.

01:16:00   It's not a thing that I update.

01:16:03   I was like "what do you mean it's not?"

01:16:06   And it gave me some way where I could choose one of these addresses.

01:16:11   And they were all the same address.

01:16:12   It was like 123 Main Street.

01:16:14   Maybe one of them, I think one of them said US, the other one said United States, maybe

01:16:19   one of them said ST instead of STRET, maybe one of them had the zip plus four, maybe one

01:16:26   had the plain zip, but they were all the same address.

01:16:28   But more importantly, I haven't changed my address.

01:16:31   I haven't modified my contact card, I haven't done anything.

01:16:33   Like what do you mean invalid address and I just couldn't buy that thing from Etsy like I couldn't no matter which address

01:16:40   I picked it would be like sorry

01:16:41   That's an invalid address invalid and this is Apple pay like the Apple pay sheet is telling this not at Ccom

01:16:46   The Apple pay thing that comes up on my phone like the UI element not from the web page, but from the OS

01:16:52   Was telling me yeah

01:16:54   No, you don't have a valid address to enter a valid address or I can't do it

01:16:57   so I just pay with credit card like you know non Apple credit card to do that thing and

01:17:03   And I didn't think much of it.

01:17:05   I'm like, well, maybe Etsy's messed up, who knows?

01:17:08   But I was brought back to that when I tried

01:17:10   to take my nicely prepared order.

01:17:11   I did this whole order prep thing in the app or whatever,

01:17:15   and tried to buy it.

01:17:16   And it's like, oh, please pick a valid shipping address.

01:17:18   I'm like, oh, no.

01:17:20   'Cause you don't wanna see that on the morning

01:17:21   when you had everything all prepared.

01:17:23   And I think the store opened up for me at like 805

01:17:26   or 806 or something like that.

01:17:28   But this time when it said pick a valid address,

01:17:32   I just picked the top address on the duplicate list

01:17:37   of my same address and it went through.

01:17:40   I don't know what its problem is,

01:17:41   but it's kind of wigging me out, Apple picks up.

01:17:43   And of course you wanna pay with your app.

01:17:45   You wanna make sure you're paying with your Apple Card

01:17:47   and Apple Pay to get the whatever percent back

01:17:49   that you get on the thing.

01:17:50   But Apple Pay, what's your deal?

01:17:52   Like my address has not changed, it's perfectly valid.

01:17:55   There's nothing weird about it.

01:17:56   I always got so inside my head about like,

01:17:59   does it care about US versus United Space States?

01:18:02   And like, if you go to the country list and a contact card,

01:18:05   United States is how it's spelled out,

01:18:07   but like why did the other one say US?

01:18:08   Anyway, after that, I went to like,

01:18:10   you can go to somewhere in settings where Apple Pay,

01:18:12   where you see like your payment addresses

01:18:15   or shipping addresses, and I just deleted them all

01:18:17   except for the one that is associated with my contact card.

01:18:20   Again, these are all the same address.

01:18:22   They're not different addresses.

01:18:23   I deleted them all.

01:18:24   This is after doing my iPhone and everything.

01:18:27   And hopefully that will make it happy

01:18:29   that there's now only one choice that is the same address

01:18:32   that's been in my contact card for 20 years,

01:18:34   but we'll see, a little bit of a shakiness.

01:18:36   And you might chalk it up to like,

01:18:38   oh, it's just iPhone morning, you know what it's like,

01:18:40   and lots of people ordering.

01:18:41   But the Etsy thing was like a week earlier,

01:18:43   so I don't know what's going on.

01:18:44   But anyway, I ordered my phone, I got day one delivery,

01:18:47   in theory it's gonna come on Friday.

01:18:49   It's super boring, I think we talked about it.

01:18:51   It's 256 gig, black.

01:18:53   I did the thing that I talked about last week

01:18:55   where you look at your storage size or whatever,

01:18:56   and I got a 256 gig phone last time,

01:18:59   and I'm using about half the storage,

01:19:00   so I feel comfortable getting another one.

01:19:02   I did double check on my wife's phone

01:19:04   because my plan is to move all of our photos

01:19:08   from her family photo library

01:19:11   into a shared family photo library,

01:19:12   so suddenly I will have way more photos on my phone.

01:19:15   Obviously I'm not gonna download them all

01:19:16   or do the optimized storage thing or whatever,

01:19:19   but I wanted to see on her phone,

01:19:21   does having the full library,

01:19:22   'cause she's got all of them right now,

01:19:23   does having the full library impact your storage?

01:19:26   And she was also using about half of her 256,

01:19:28   So I felt somewhat comfortable that I'll be able to fit within 256.

01:19:32   I'll let you know if I regret that decision later.

01:19:35   Yeah, it's black.

01:19:38   And I had to deal with the case situation.

01:19:41   Last year I bought the Apple — not last year — last time I got a phone for the 12

01:19:45   Pro I bought the Apple silicone case because I figured, yeah, I don't think I'm going

01:19:49   to like the lip, but let me try it anyway.

01:19:51   And that's how I determined that I don't like the lip because the silicone case has

01:19:55   the lip and I don't like it.

01:19:57   I like the case otherwise, it was great, but I don't like the lip.

01:20:00   So this year, I had to make a similar decision.

01:20:03   By the way, why I bought the silicone case last time was like, I don't know what I'm

01:20:05   going to get, let me try this one, we'll see how I like it.

01:20:07   I didn't want to spend all the money for the leather one, which I knew also had the lip,

01:20:11   so let me buy a cheaper silicone one just to try out the lip.

01:20:13   Well this year, I know I don't like the lip on the bottom of the phone, so I can't buy

01:20:17   the Apple silicone one, I can't buy the Apple leather one, because again, they have the

01:20:21   lip on the bottom of the phone, and I don't like that because when I swipe up from the,

01:20:24   What is it, the home indicator?

01:20:27   - I believe that's what we're calling that, yeah.

01:20:29   - Dynamic island indicator of home.

01:20:31   My thumb hits the edge of the case and I don't like it.

01:20:36   But Apple does sell one case

01:20:37   that doesn't have the bottom lip.

01:20:39   I think we talked about this last year

01:20:41   or the year before that.

01:20:43   Why this case doesn't have a lip,

01:20:45   but regardless it doesn't.

01:20:46   The Apple clear case does not have a lower lip on the phone.

01:20:50   So people don't know that is like the part

01:20:53   or you plug in the lightning connector,

01:20:55   that piece of metal is pretty much entirely exposed

01:20:58   on the bottom of the phone.

01:20:59   The case does not wrap all the way around that.

01:21:02   The case doesn't have like a cutout for you

01:21:04   sticking the lightning connector

01:21:05   and a cutout for the speaker holes

01:21:06   and a cutout for the mic.

01:21:07   It doesn't have that as the whole bottom is exposed, right?

01:21:09   So I got the Apple Clear case.

01:21:12   I don't like the Clear case.

01:21:13   I don't want the Clear case,

01:21:15   but I do want a case on my phone

01:21:17   and it needs something to tide me over

01:21:18   until I can find a case that I actually like,

01:21:21   which is going to be a struggle.

01:21:23   And this year, to my list of struggles,

01:21:26   I sort of upped the ante a little bit

01:21:28   on what I want out of a case.

01:21:30   Last year, I wanted a black leather, or not last year,

01:21:33   last time I got a phone, I wanted a black leather case

01:21:35   that was just like the Apple black leather case,

01:21:39   but with no bottom lip.

01:21:41   And I got as close to that as I could find,

01:21:42   which was that OXR, you know, at the time $20,

01:21:46   now $5.49 leather iPhone case.

01:21:51   And I love it, I'm still on my phone, it's amazing.

01:21:54   It's had it for two years, it's held up great,

01:21:56   it's exactly what I want, right?

01:21:59   Not quite as nice as the Apple leather one,

01:22:01   but it was 20 bucks, come on.

01:22:02   This year I'm adding one more thing.

01:22:06   Last time I didn't care about MagSafe,

01:22:07   this year I want MagSafe.

01:22:10   I like the idea of sticking it on my,

01:22:12   I got my wife a MagSafe mount for her car,

01:22:15   I think last Christmas or something.

01:22:16   And it's really handy and it charges your phone

01:22:19   while you're in the car.

01:22:20   So now I have to add that to the list.

01:22:24   There are lots of black leather cases

01:22:26   with open bottoms with MagSafe in them.

01:22:30   But the thing I talked about last time

01:22:32   and the reason I like the OXR one

01:22:33   is how the buttons are treated.

01:22:36   The Apple leather case usually,

01:22:39   I haven't looked at them a couple of years now

01:22:40   that have lips, but they usually on the Apple leather cases

01:22:42   have like a recess where the volume buttons

01:22:45   and the power button are.

01:22:46   And then within that recess,

01:22:48   there is a little metal button

01:22:49   that hits the button underneath it.

01:22:51   And the recess is important

01:22:52   because it allows the buttons to be thick,

01:22:56   like a little piece of metal poking out,

01:22:58   but not extend that far outside the phone

01:23:01   because they are thick and they stand proud of the recess.

01:23:04   It's not like the case has flat sides

01:23:06   and then on top of the flat side,

01:23:08   there is a two millimeter button sticking out.

01:23:09   There's like a one millimeter indentation

01:23:11   and a two millimeter button inside the indentation

01:23:14   so it only sticks out one millimeter,

01:23:15   if that's making sense.

01:23:17   That's what Apple does with their cases,

01:23:19   with their leather cases.

01:23:20   That's what I want.

01:23:21   Lots of leather cases with no bottom lip on them for iPhones

01:23:25   don't do that.

01:23:26   They have metal buttons that stick out

01:23:30   from the edge of the case.

01:23:31   Sometimes there's even like a pucker

01:23:32   where there's like a mound and on top of the mound,

01:23:35   the metal buttons stick out on top of that.

01:23:37   I don't like that.

01:23:38   But I had trouble,

01:23:40   Olixar is apparently not making this case again,

01:23:43   'cause I don't know why.

01:23:44   Some listener sent them an email

01:23:46   and asked them if they were gonna make a case

01:23:48   like the old one, and they said no,

01:23:49   we don't have any plans at this time.

01:23:50   Who knows if the person answering the email

01:23:52   even understood what the question was,

01:23:54   because, you know, whatever.

01:23:56   So I will keep an eye out for the Olixar one,

01:23:58   but in the meantime, I just bit the bullet,

01:24:00   and I bought the, I ordered the case

01:24:03   that I resisted ordering last time

01:24:05   because I thought I wouldn't like the buttons.

01:24:07   I still think I won't like the buttons,

01:24:08   but I ordered it for two reasons.

01:24:10   One, the giant camera Mesa on the back.

01:24:15   It's so big on the iPhone 14 Pro, just gargantuan.

01:24:20   And I think I want to try what this case does with that,

01:24:24   which is sort of have a gentle slope instead of the wall,

01:24:28   the plastic wall that the Apple cases tend to build around

01:24:30   the thing. And that's, you know, my wife has that,

01:24:32   you know, an Apple case on her iPhone 13 Pro.

01:24:35   And I felt like that little wall, this has a gentle slope.

01:24:38   It's kind of like a crater that builds up to it a leather a leather slope a leather. Yeah, like maybe I like that better

01:24:44   Yeah, maybe maybe I like that better than just having a wall. So let me try that

01:24:49   and

01:24:51   The other thing is it's not available. It's not even shipping until October 17th

01:24:55   So that's why I need a case to tide me over because you can't even get it

01:24:58   You can pre-order it which is what I did. Oh, it's very expensive to us like 80 something bucks

01:25:01   Wait, which case is this? This is the I'll put a link in the show notes. It's the bull strap leather case

01:25:07   They sell a bunch of other stuff.

01:25:08   The letter looks fine and everything.

01:25:09   - Yeah, this is the one the Gruber likes, right?

01:25:11   - Yeah, it's got a bowl embossed on the back

01:25:13   and I really wish there was nothing embossed on the back.

01:25:16   We'll see how it goes.

01:25:17   I mean, I may get it and it may just be like

01:25:19   too thick and too chunky.

01:25:22   I mean, I'll have to, you know.

01:25:23   Anyway, the clear case, I mean,

01:25:26   I don't think I've ever used Apple's clear case.

01:25:28   I don't like how it looks.

01:25:29   I don't find it attractive.

01:25:30   It's got that big circle on the line on the back

01:25:32   and I don't, my phone is black.

01:25:33   I'm not showing off any cool color inside my clear case

01:25:36   or anything like that.

01:25:37   One thing that my daughter does is she sticks stuff

01:25:39   between her clear case and the phone.

01:25:42   You can put stickers in there,

01:25:43   you can put little pictures and stuff like that.

01:25:45   I don't think I'm gonna be doing that,

01:25:46   but that's at least one of the advantages

01:25:48   of having a clear case.

01:25:49   So we'll see, we'll see how this goes.

01:25:52   But yeah, I ordered my phone and a clear case

01:25:55   that's sitting on my desk right now.

01:25:57   And I'm going, this is, every time I get a phone out,

01:26:00   this is the awkward period where like for the 12 Pro,

01:26:04   I used it without a case for a while,

01:26:05   then I used it with a silicone case,

01:26:07   then I tried a bunch of other cases,

01:26:08   so I found the old XR one.

01:26:09   It's such a disruption to my life,

01:26:11   'cause my phone is with me all the time,

01:26:13   and I just want it to be just like my phone

01:26:16   that I have now, but I can't.

01:26:17   I can't because it's got a giant camera on the back,

01:26:19   so you know it's not gonna be like that.

01:26:20   It's not gonna lay flat on the table anymore.

01:26:22   It's gonna be huge.

01:26:23   Your finger's gonna hit that thing,

01:26:24   and then on top of that, I have to find a case.

01:26:26   But I'm kind of excited about the MagSafe mount.

01:26:29   I did buy a MagSafe mount for my car

01:26:31   that just arrived the other day.

01:26:32   This case has MagSafe, the clear one has,

01:26:34   so I can immediately start using that.

01:26:36   I do have to solve the tape problem,

01:26:40   where the way the MagSafe mount works,

01:26:41   it's just a little thing that screws onto an air vent

01:26:43   or whatever, it's not like Marco's thing

01:26:45   that you have to disassemble your dashboard

01:26:46   and jam a metal thing into it or whatever,

01:26:48   I'm not gonna do that. - That's not at all

01:26:49   how the ProClip, the ProClip ones all work by just like,

01:26:52   you just kinda like compression fit it somewhere.

01:26:56   That's why it's custom for each vehicle,

01:26:58   'cause they figure out, all right, you can mount to this,

01:27:00   this little slope in the dashboard here,

01:27:03   if you just like kind of bend this piece of plastic slightly

01:27:05   and then boop, clip it on there and then it stays forever.

01:27:07   - You can stick little slivers of wood

01:27:09   under your fingernails too if you just open it up

01:27:11   a little bit and shove the piece of wood.

01:27:15   It'll just slide right in.

01:27:16   They designed it specially so it slides right in

01:27:18   between there.

01:27:19   - Wow.

01:27:19   - Oh, I don't want anything jammed into my dashboard.

01:27:22   I've seen too many car rebuilding videos

01:27:24   to know how delicate the stupid clips behind that stuff is

01:27:27   and how crappy and soft the plastic is

01:27:30   on dashboard components.

01:27:31   - It doesn't need to hold on that tightly.

01:27:32   - The best, the best sight to attention,

01:27:35   the best of the 90s BMWs that had the soft touch plastic

01:27:39   everywhere, right, like that looked really expensive

01:27:41   and felt really good, but it was basically like rubber

01:27:43   sprayed onto hard plastic.

01:27:45   Guess what happens to that after like 20 years?

01:27:48   - Oh God.

01:27:48   - It crumbles the dust and falls off

01:27:50   and it's like your skin flaking off.

01:27:53   Anyway, that was not built to last,

01:27:55   but it was really nice when it was new.

01:27:57   Where was I, I lost my turn of thought.

01:27:58   (laughing)

01:28:00   - Max, you bought MagSafe for your car.

01:28:02   - Yep, I gotta figure out how to route the wire.

01:28:04   Because you have the USB cable that plugs into the USB

01:28:09   in your car to provide power to the MagSafe thing

01:28:11   so it can charge your phone.

01:28:13   So I have to get that cable from where the magnet thing

01:28:17   is mounted down to my USB port and I wanna route it

01:28:20   so it's all nice and everything.

01:28:22   And so tape comes in, I need some kind of,

01:28:25   like my interior of my car is black or dark gray, right?

01:28:28   I need some kind of tape that will blend in

01:28:31   that can also stick to the textured plastic

01:28:33   in my Honda Accord, right?

01:28:35   That also won't leave a disgusting, sticky residue

01:28:39   all over my beautiful Honda Accord,

01:28:40   and that's the difficult part, right?

01:28:42   If I use black masking tape, it would peel up in the winter.

01:28:44   If I use duct tape, it'll leave residue.

01:28:46   If I use electrical tape, it'll slide

01:28:48   and leave a gross residue.

01:28:49   - Well, they have those like cable clip things

01:28:51   for this purpose.

01:28:52   They don't work super well.

01:28:54   They will fall off about once a year,

01:28:56   or if you hit them with your leg, they'll fall off more.

01:28:59   but they'll leave sticky stuff, right?

01:29:01   - Sometimes, it depends on which ones you get.

01:29:03   This is a problem that I have not found a good solution for.

01:29:06   My current solution in the Tesla is just to,

01:29:11   like there's like certain ridges that you can kind of

01:29:14   friction push the cable and it will kind of stay there,

01:29:17   and then I like, you know, kind of route it like

01:29:19   under the little center console thing.

01:29:21   So like, my solution is mostly just like,

01:29:24   kind of rest the cable in natural grooves

01:29:26   in the dash design until I can get it

01:29:28   out of sight somewhere.

01:29:29   And that works okay.

01:29:31   It's not a great solution, but it does work okay.

01:29:33   - What I use in my wife's car when I did it for her setup

01:29:36   is I use gaff tape, which I felt like was splitting

01:29:38   the difference between duct tape, masking tape,

01:29:40   and electrical tape, 'cause it's black,

01:29:43   it has pretty good sticking to it,

01:29:45   but it doesn't leave as much residue

01:29:47   as duct tape or electrical tape.

01:29:51   But the problem is it's black on the top,

01:29:54   but the adhesive on the back is white,

01:29:56   and as the cable moves around,

01:29:57   it tends to like splooge out some of the adhesive.

01:30:00   So it's like a nice black tape with little bits

01:30:02   of white stuff sticking out of the end.

01:30:04   I don't know, I know this sounds very picky,

01:30:06   but I want it to look nice and be arranged well.

01:30:09   I almost kind of missed the days of my really old

01:30:11   Honda Accord that didn't have aux input

01:30:13   and I had to open up the whole dashboard

01:30:14   and add a little thing to like the head unit

01:30:17   behind the radio that gave you an aux input.

01:30:19   And then I would route the aux cable

01:30:22   through the central tunnel of the car

01:30:24   underneath the entire interior.

01:30:25   So it came out of the little box.

01:30:27   No visible cables, it was all, of course,

01:30:29   you had to disassemble your whole dashboard

01:30:30   and send a console to get this done.

01:30:32   But once you did, the cable wasn't visible

01:30:34   except for where it came out.

01:30:35   And so I've got to work on that solution.

01:30:38   But other than that, someone in the chat room

01:30:40   suggested nanotape.

01:30:42   There's also like those command strip things

01:30:44   where they don't leave residue if you pull them off

01:30:45   the right way with the little sticky, you know those?

01:30:47   - Yeah, they're great.

01:30:48   They're called command strips.

01:30:49   - Yeah, they come in all shapes and sizes,

01:30:52   but I might, I mean, maybe I'll use something like that

01:30:56   with like a piece of tape over that.

01:30:57   And so that's the thing that sticks to the car

01:30:59   and the tape would stick to the command strip,

01:31:01   but I'll work on it.

01:31:02   But yeah, that's all I ordered.

01:31:05   My wife ordered her watch.

01:31:07   No real issues ordering that.

01:31:10   Basically just a identical replacement to her Series 7,

01:31:14   but she uses her watch a lot.

01:31:15   And even just for getting the fresh battery loan.

01:31:17   Plus we're gonna rotate the Herald watch down

01:31:19   to the children and the family.

01:31:21   So it's all good here.

01:31:23   - I meant I should be more specific.

01:31:25   So I got a 512 iPhone 14 Pro in black.

01:31:30   - Did you look at your storage before you bought that 512?

01:31:32   - I did.

01:31:33   I don't think I needed the 512,

01:31:35   but it's one of those things.

01:31:36   - How much of your 512 are you using?

01:31:38   - No, no, I don't have 512 right now.

01:31:40   I have 256 right now.

01:31:41   - How much of your 256 are you using?

01:31:42   (sighs)

01:31:44   - I should never, I should--

01:31:45   - Is it triple digits, everyone?

01:31:46   What do we think?

01:31:47   - Hold on, where is it?

01:31:48   It's about--

01:31:49   - Yeah, I'm gonna say like maybe 90 gigs.

01:31:50   (laughs)

01:31:51   'Cause he like barely uses iCloud Photo library.

01:31:54   176.1 gigs.

01:31:55   - All right, all right, but I'm not entirely sure

01:31:59   you needed 512, but okay, you do, you know.

01:32:01   - No, no, I agree, I agree, but it's one of those things

01:32:04   where you can't have too much,

01:32:06   but you can't really have too little.

01:32:07   So I figured I'd rather err on the side of caution.

01:32:10   So I got a 512 black 14 Pro, Aaron got a 256 white 14 Pro.

01:32:15   I did look at her usage and it was basically nothing.

01:32:19   Although I got a little nervous about that though,

01:32:21   because I planned you.

01:32:22   So she's the you of our family, Jon,

01:32:25   in that she's about to have her photo library

01:32:28   just absolutely explode in a month or two.

01:32:32   - That's why I check my iPhone,

01:32:33   but I guess whatever optimized storage thing that it does

01:32:35   must work really well,

01:32:36   because she's got the full library, she always has,

01:32:39   and she's not even halfway.

01:32:42   - Yeah, it works fine.

01:32:44   You don't need to rely on having raw storage space

01:32:48   to a large degree.

01:32:51   I've had the 256 phones, I think,

01:32:54   for three or four phones in a row now,

01:32:57   and it's always been fine.

01:32:59   And my photo library is way larger than that,

01:33:01   but it doesn't matter because it offloads it.

01:33:04   - Yeah, so what did you and Tiff end up doing?

01:33:06   - 256, white Pro for me, the Aaron phone,

01:33:09   512, purple, big one for Tiff, the Max.

01:33:13   - I have to say, the white,

01:33:14   I really liked the white this year,

01:33:15   and if I was gonna go caseless,

01:33:17   I think I would've gotten the white.

01:33:18   And actually, I also ended up with the Apple Clear Case.

01:33:23   Not quite for the reason John did.

01:33:24   Like I didn't even know until you said so

01:33:27   that it doesn't have the bottom lip,

01:33:28   I think is a little nice bonus for it.

01:33:31   - Do you either remember why it doesn't have the bottom lip?

01:33:34   I know we talked about it like two years ago.

01:33:35   Why doesn't it have the bottom lip?

01:33:36   - Well, if I had to guess, I suspect the reason why

01:33:39   is that the Clear Case is Apple's least flexible case.

01:33:43   And so I think to get the phone in and out of it,

01:33:45   I think you need that opening there

01:33:48   as kind of like a point to--

01:33:50   - I don't know if I'd buy that.

01:33:51   Maybe it would crack around if you had to make the openings

01:33:54   for the speakers and the lighting thing,

01:33:56   it would crack because they'd be too skinny over there.

01:33:58   I don't know.

01:33:59   And I don't wanna discourage them.

01:34:00   Apple, open up the bottoms of all your phone cases, please.

01:34:04   - Yes. (laughs)

01:34:05   But yeah, so yeah, the way they used to be, right?

01:34:07   But yeah, I got it because I like,

01:34:09   I've been using a clear case from some other Rando brand

01:34:13   on my 13 Pro for most of the past year.

01:34:16   We went through last fall through different case options.

01:34:18   We did the whole segments on them.

01:34:20   And ultimately I ended up loving these clear cases

01:34:23   'cause they were like a little bit gummy

01:34:24   and provided really nice grip.

01:34:25   And the Apple case is a little harder.

01:34:28   It's more of a hard plastic than a gummy plastic.

01:34:32   But it's still, I think it's gonna be way grippier

01:34:34   than anything else.

01:34:35   And the gummy plastic case brands

01:34:39   that I ended up liking last year,

01:34:40   I didn't see that they were currently making any

01:34:43   for the Pro this year yet.

01:34:46   so I figure maybe I'll look at those later.

01:34:47   But the Apple one, I might just stick with this.

01:34:49   I think it's gonna be fine.

01:34:51   - Yeah, I should have said,

01:34:52   I think I might have said before,

01:34:53   I did absolutely get the Apple Black Leather case,

01:34:56   and I'm hopeful that that's not too bad.

01:34:59   Because I used to be a Black Leather case person

01:35:02   for years and years and years,

01:35:03   and then for whatever reason, last time I didn't.

01:35:05   Now, Marco, you slid by,

01:35:07   I don't remember if it was before we started recording

01:35:10   or once we started recording,

01:35:11   you also ordered something else.

01:35:13   - Well, this is interesting.

01:35:15   Okay, so, I mentioned last episode, based on the event,

01:35:20   that I was not going to be ordering

01:35:24   the Apple Watch Series 8, that for the very first time ever

01:35:27   I was going to skip an Apple Watch generation.

01:35:30   And then what happened was,

01:35:33   so, there's a couple things you need to know.

01:35:36   So first of all, I make an app for the Apple Watch,

01:35:41   and you cannot downgrade the watchOS version

01:35:45   on an Apple Watch during the beta.

01:35:47   The same way, you can downgrade iPhones

01:35:50   and the way you do that is you do whatever

01:35:53   incantation of holding down buttons

01:35:54   is necessary to put it into DFU mode

01:35:57   and then you kind of, you have to do a clean restore,

01:36:00   you can't like keep your settings and everything,

01:36:02   you do a clean restore to a version of iOS

01:36:05   that you can like download and pick the IPSW

01:36:07   or let it do like whatever the latest release version is

01:36:10   So that way if you're on a beta,

01:36:11   you can get off the beta and go back.

01:36:12   That works on iPhones, 'cause they have a way

01:36:15   to do DFU mode where you plug in a cable

01:36:16   and do these button things.

01:36:18   There is no such way that we have access to

01:36:20   as outside consumers for Apple watches.

01:36:23   I've heard Apple support can do it,

01:36:25   'cause they have like special docs that can put them in

01:36:26   with the push special diagnostic pins and everything.

01:36:28   Anyway, so my problem was at WWDC this year,

01:36:33   I was the responsible developer.

01:36:34   Rather than putting beta one on my carry phone,

01:36:37   I brought a second phone.

01:36:39   I brought my iPhone mini to W2C to put the beta on.

01:36:43   And I also brought my Apple Watch Series 6 from last year

01:36:48   that I kept 'cause the trading value sucked.

01:36:50   'Cause trading values for watches suck.

01:36:51   We'll get back to this.

01:36:53   So I had my Series 6.

01:36:55   When I was there, I put on the beta,

01:36:57   beta one on my iPhone mini, my kind of secondary backup

01:37:01   phone, and on my old Apple Watch, my Series 6.

01:37:03   I put watch with beta one.

01:37:04   Oops.

01:37:07   That's my mistake.

01:37:09   I should've put the beta on my primary watch,

01:37:12   like move my primary watch over to that phone

01:37:15   because what happened at the end of the summer,

01:37:18   now if I want my primary watch to be upgraded to watchOS 9,

01:37:23   now I have no watches left that can run watchOS 8

01:37:26   because you can't downgrade watches.

01:37:29   At the same time this happened

01:37:30   that I had no watchOS 8 hardware,

01:37:33   there was a bug in my app last week.

01:37:36   - Oh no.

01:37:37   required me to test on watchOS 8

01:37:39   because I was getting reports that it was crashing

01:37:41   on watchOS 8 and this was almost 100% of the user base

01:37:45   because this was before watchOS 9

01:37:47   was actually released to the public.

01:37:48   The GM was out but it wasn't out to the public.

01:37:51   And I had a crasher bug and I had no hardware to test it on.

01:37:54   So this was a school day.

01:37:56   Adam was at school and he has an Apple Watch SE

01:38:00   that I thought was running watchOS 8,

01:38:02   we'll come back to that as well,

01:38:03   and I thought oh, I can run it on his watch, great.

01:38:06   but his watch is set up with family setup,

01:38:09   which means I can't run Overcast on it.

01:38:12   And it's kind of weird, because it has no,

01:38:14   effectively it has no parent phone.

01:38:16   Like it's kind of my phone is the parent phone,

01:38:18   but kind of not, and apps that don't run 100% independently

01:38:21   on the watch can't run on family setup watches.

01:38:24   And Overcast, I don't have setup that way.

01:38:25   So, couldn't test it on his,

01:38:26   'cause he was both at school,

01:38:28   and also it would have required resetting his whole watch,

01:38:30   which I didn't want to do.

01:38:32   Secondly, I could install it on TIFs,

01:38:34   but I'm a good developer spouse.

01:38:37   I try to avoid roping my spouse's devices into my testing

01:38:42   because they're her devices, she's using them,

01:38:45   it's her life, I don't wanna mess up her stuff,

01:38:47   but she at least had a watch with watchOS 8,

01:38:49   so I'm like, oh, I'm like, honey,

01:38:51   I need to ask a really, really big favor.

01:38:53   (laughing)

01:38:54   And she thought it was gonna be way worse than this,

01:38:56   but anyway, so she let me, yeah, she let me do it,

01:38:59   but this is something I don't wanna have to ask

01:39:01   more than ever, especially because the crash was

01:39:06   I had to play audio, and on a watch you had to play audio

01:39:09   through Bluetooth, so what I had to do was borrow her phone

01:39:13   so I could connect it to Xcode and have that--

01:39:15   - And her headphones.

01:39:16   - And her Apple Watch, and her AirPods.

01:39:19   So I'm taking everything from her.

01:39:22   (laughing)

01:39:24   It was so disruptive, so invasive, so I'm like,

01:39:27   you know what, this is not, as long as my app

01:39:30   is supporting watchOS 8, which is probably gonna be

01:39:33   for about another nine to 12 months,

01:39:36   I need test hardware, I need my own watch

01:39:39   that runs watchOS 8.

01:39:41   I can't buy the new ones 'cause they all have watchOS 9

01:39:44   and also aren't actually out until Friday or whatever.

01:39:47   So I can't do that, so maybe we upgrade Tiff

01:39:51   and then I can take hers as a test device.

01:39:54   But she doesn't want the new one

01:39:55   'cause she doesn't wear it every day,

01:39:57   it's only for exercise, so the new stuff

01:39:59   wouldn't be relevant to her.

01:40:00   She specifically said she didn't care,

01:40:02   she didn't want it, she wouldn't use it.

01:40:04   Well, Adam has the SE, the first SE.

01:40:07   Maybe he's ready for an upgrade.

01:40:09   His watch is fine, it's scratched up, but it's fine.

01:40:12   Oh, I forgot to mention, the day this all happened

01:40:14   was last Friday, WatchOS 9 was being released on Monday.

01:40:19   And I knew, if I want to buy a watch

01:40:22   that has WatchOS 8 to be guaranteed on it,

01:40:24   I have to buy it before WatchOS 9's release to the public.

01:40:28   'cause so many people will auto update.

01:40:30   So I'm like, I have to lock this in now.

01:40:33   So what I ended up doing, I'm like, all right,

01:40:36   what we're gonna do, we're gonna replace Adam's watch

01:40:38   and I'll take his old one and I will just turn off

01:40:40   auto update on his old one.

01:40:41   So I tried turning off auto update on his watch

01:40:44   and it bugs out and it's like, your watch has not finished

01:40:47   pairing yet to your phone.

01:40:49   - What?

01:40:50   - I set it up like two years ago.

01:40:51   I guarantee you it's finished pairing,

01:40:53   but anyway, that's another day.

01:40:55   I'm like, oh God, what's going on?

01:40:56   So anyway, I work it out with him.

01:40:58   What we're gonna do, we're gonna replace his watch

01:41:00   and get him a new one.

01:41:02   So I look at the options.

01:41:03   Now, as I mentioned a little bit ago,

01:41:05   Apple watches have terrible trade-in values.

01:41:07   They always have.

01:41:08   You can trade in a phone to Apple

01:41:10   for half of what you paid for it.

01:41:13   You trade in a watch to Apple,

01:41:14   and no matter what it is, no matter what the metal is,

01:41:17   your trade-in value's gonna be like 125 bucks or something.

01:41:20   It's very, very low compared to a watch that cost

01:41:24   six or $800 one year ago.

01:41:26   You trade it into Apple, it's 125 bucks or whatever.

01:41:29   It's very, very low trading values.

01:41:31   I don't know why this is.

01:41:32   For whatever reason,

01:41:33   watches do not have high resale values

01:41:36   because you can also go on eBay or Amazon or whatever

01:41:40   and you can get refurb Apple watches or used ones

01:41:44   for these also pretty low prices

01:41:48   considering how much they cost even one year earlier.

01:41:52   Now, we also mentioned earlier,

01:41:53   The Apple Watch CPU has not changed in three years.

01:41:58   So I looked at the SE, the new SE,

01:42:02   OK, so for $300-ish, $253, because we get cellular firms,

01:42:07   so for $300, I could get him this new model that

01:42:12   has the same processor as, roughly, as a Series 5.

01:42:18   And the Apple Watch SE was basically Series 5 processor

01:42:22   in a series four body roughly.

01:42:24   So it had the series four new shape screen

01:42:27   but not always on screen.

01:42:29   And then a couple other features were cut,

01:42:31   some of the advanced heart stuff.

01:42:32   But anyway, and the new SE is series eight guts,

01:42:37   but again, still with that series four screen

01:42:40   and the plastic back and everything.

01:42:41   So I'm like, hmm, I don't think he actually

01:42:46   would be benefiting much from getting a new SE.

01:42:49   Let me see what I can get on the refurb market.

01:42:52   and I went on Amazon and we got him for $50 less,

01:42:57   for like $240 bucks, we got him a Series 6 cellular

01:43:02   for $240 bucks.

01:43:05   And it was-- - That's not bad.

01:43:06   - Refurb, and you know, sorry, Amazon's like renewed,

01:43:09   you know, which is their version of refurb, I guess.

01:43:11   I'm sure there's some minor difference, but anyway.

01:43:13   240 bucks, we got a Series 6.

01:43:15   And so now he has the always on screen.

01:43:17   He has roughly the same processor

01:43:19   that the SE would have had.

01:43:22   And the only downside was it was slightly used.

01:43:24   And I've actually bought a couple of used watches

01:43:27   on Amazon over the years for various reasons,

01:43:29   or renewed stuff.

01:43:30   Even my iPhone mini, my iPhone 13 mini

01:43:32   that I've been testing on, I got that renewed on Amazon.

01:43:35   Overall, this process is fine, and I've had good luck with it.

01:43:37   The only thing I will warn people of is the accessories

01:43:40   that come with these devices.

01:43:41   In the case of the phone, it's the charger.

01:43:43   In the case of the Apple Watch, it's

01:43:44   the charging cable and the band.

01:43:47   They're always really cheap knock-off garbage.

01:43:50   throw them away.

01:43:52   They're so cheap, like, I don't even trust,

01:43:55   the charger that comes with an Apple,

01:43:56   with like a refurb phone from Amazon,

01:43:59   I don't even trust it to plug into my wall

01:44:01   and not start a fire.

01:44:03   - Cool.

01:44:04   - The charging cables that come with,

01:44:06   they're all these imitation lightning cables or whatever,

01:44:09   I don't trust plugging that into my phone.

01:44:11   I don't plug in suspicious USB devices to my phone,

01:44:14   and that includes charging cables

01:44:16   for perceived security reasons.

01:44:18   I'm not gonna do that.

01:44:19   So, yeah, of course these can come with garbage.

01:44:23   Throw out the accessories, use genuine Apple stuff,

01:44:25   if you can, you know, that's much better.

01:44:27   And, you know, the watch band is like, you know,

01:44:29   terrible imitation sport band, I just put on a real one.

01:44:32   But anyway, with that exception, I was so surprised,

01:44:36   like, you know, the watch comes,

01:44:37   it looks basically brand new.

01:44:39   Like, I didn't, I saw like there was like one small scratch

01:44:42   on the bottom, the ceramic piece, and that's it.

01:44:45   And everything else looks perfect.

01:44:46   I'm like, this is amazing.

01:44:48   So yeah, series six, 250 bucks for Adam.

01:44:50   And then, and the funny thing was,

01:44:53   it arrived on Monday when the new OSes

01:44:57   were being released.

01:44:58   So I'm like, all right, I have to get this thing set up,

01:45:00   get his old one transferred over to me

01:45:03   before it updates to watchOS 9.

01:45:07   I do the process of, I try to move his watch over

01:45:09   and it gives me that arrogant about it

01:45:10   not having finished pairing.

01:45:11   And I ended up having to reset it completely.

01:45:14   Like, totally unpair it and just copy his stuff off

01:45:17   and put it all back on.

01:45:18   I later found out it's running watchOS 7.

01:45:21   And I'm like, oh no.

01:45:23   It never updated the whole past year.

01:45:26   It was in this weird state, it never updated.

01:45:28   So now I have to perform a software update

01:45:31   on watchOS 9 release day and try not to get watchOS 9.

01:45:36   - Oh my goodness.

01:45:37   - So my trick to do this was I paired it to my iPhone 7

01:45:42   which cannot run iOS 16.

01:45:46   - Ah, nice. - And therefore,

01:45:48   will never offer watchOS 9 to its paired watch.

01:45:52   So I have now an iPhone 7, my jet black trusty iPhone 7,

01:45:57   running my baseline of iOS 15, watchOS 8 on an Adams old SE.

01:46:02   He's loving the Series 6, and I'm really happy

01:46:06   that I didn't pay more money for the newest version

01:46:10   of this watch that is actually worse

01:46:11   in this critical way of the always on screen.

01:46:15   And so, yeah, that's my watch story.

01:46:18   - This reminds me that both the process

01:46:20   of getting a new watch and the process

01:46:22   of getting a new phone have been extremely fraught

01:46:25   for me for several years.

01:46:27   Obviously, I don't wear a watch,

01:46:28   but my wife gets new watches and I set them up.

01:46:30   I don't even know what Apple wants you to do.

01:46:33   Like, I've ordered a new watch, it arrives in the house.

01:46:35   Here's your new watch, it's in a box.

01:46:37   What's the next move?

01:46:38   No matter what we do, the answer is you're gonna

01:46:41   be spending hours watching this thing do something,

01:46:43   wondering if you're doing the right thing,

01:46:45   wondering if you're losing all your data,

01:46:46   wondering if you're losing all your streaks,

01:46:48   who the hell knows?

01:46:49   They've never rationalized that system of like,

01:46:51   "Oh, just unpair it, and when you unpair it,

01:46:52   auto backstop," and it's like, "What?

01:46:54   "That doesn't make any sense.

01:46:55   "I'm sure they'll fix that a few years into the watch."

01:46:57   Nope, they never did.

01:46:58   It's all nonsensical BS.

01:46:59   (laughing)

01:47:01   It doesn't make sense to me, and it often fails.

01:47:03   And then the phone, we'll see how this goes,

01:47:04   'cause hey, this is the eSIM year,

01:47:06   but every time I get a new phone,

01:47:07   I buy it from my previous phone,

01:47:10   and it says, "Do you wanna buy a phone

01:47:11   "to replace the phone that you're looking at right now?"

01:47:13   And I always say yes,

01:47:15   and then it comes and I spend an hour and a half on the phone

01:47:17   with Verizon on iPhone day.

01:47:19   Because I take it out of the box and I try to set it up

01:47:22   and something goes wrong and it can't get on the cell network

01:47:24   and nothing happens and nothing works

01:47:26   and then I'm on the phone for an hour

01:47:27   and they do a bunch of things on Urine

01:47:29   and they say try it now and then I try this

01:47:31   and try it now and then eventually it works.

01:47:33   Sometimes I just give up and then half an hour later

01:47:36   in the day it just starts working,

01:47:37   sometimes I get it resolved in the phone.

01:47:39   I'm hoping it doesn't happen this year,

01:47:40   I'm hoping I can get a new phone, take it out of its box,

01:47:43   go through whatever procedure wants me to go through

01:47:45   and just have a new phone that,

01:47:46   you know, like I'll do the iCloud backup,

01:47:48   like I'm not trying to do iTunes backups anymore,

01:47:51   I'm just like, I'll take, show me the happy path, Apple,

01:47:54   just tell me what to do and I will do it,

01:47:56   and by the end of hopefully a not particularly long process,

01:47:59   I will have a phone that answers calls

01:48:01   on my cell phone number.

01:48:03   And then my old phone, like for example,

01:48:05   to give you an example of a thing I never know how to do,

01:48:07   when I talk to Verizon, like,

01:48:08   "Oh, you should have known to do this."

01:48:09   It's like, should I like shut down my previous phone

01:48:13   before the new one arrives in my house?

01:48:15   Or should I not do that?

01:48:17   I don't know, I don't know what I'm supposed to do,

01:48:18   but sometimes they say, oh yeah, no,

01:48:20   'cause your other one's still on the number

01:48:21   and so it's all on the cell network,

01:48:23   so it's never gonna transfer to your new one,

01:48:24   and blah, blah, blah, and this is where Casey says,

01:48:26   well, why don't you just take the SIM card out

01:48:27   and put it in the other thing,

01:48:28   and well, it was 5G and you came with the new SIM card.

01:48:30   It's like, I never know what to do.

01:48:32   It's too complicated, it shouldn't be this complicated.

01:48:35   I'm hoping eSIM will make it easier.

01:48:37   In fact, I'm kind of excited about eSIM

01:48:38   because I've been watching more people's reviews

01:48:40   with the eSIM thing of like,

01:48:42   Yeah, you don't have a little card

01:48:43   and you don't have a little door

01:48:44   and you don't have to use the little pin,

01:48:45   but also you can fit up to eight identities

01:48:48   on the eSIM thing.

01:48:50   So if you wanted, you can just like,

01:48:52   again, if you're in a country with carriers that support it,

01:48:54   blah, blah, blah, but you could, for example,

01:48:56   sign up for a T-Mobile thing

01:48:57   and just add that to your existing phone.

01:49:00   You can do that up to eight times

01:49:01   and have eight different cell things

01:49:02   that you're rotating between

01:49:03   and just find the one that has the best signal

01:49:05   on your location or whatever.

01:49:07   Obviously, there's contracts

01:49:08   and all sorts of other crap that confuses this,

01:49:10   but I like the idea of being divorced

01:49:12   from the physical reality,

01:49:13   but one of the realities is that my existing phone

01:49:18   that's sitting with me right now

01:49:20   currently is on the cell network

01:49:22   and is answering at my telephone number.

01:49:24   And at some point during the process

01:49:26   of the setup of my new phone,

01:49:27   that needs to switch to my new phone.

01:49:29   And I don't, apparently every two years,

01:49:32   I proved that I have no idea how to do that.

01:49:35   - Yeah, I'm very curious to see how the eSIM dance goes.

01:49:39   I don't think we talked about it on the show, but last week I decided I'd like to get ahead of this, please.

01:49:46   So I went through and figured out how to change my

01:49:49   13 Pro from physical SIM to eSIM, and I figured it out. It was fairly straightforward on Verizon.

01:49:56   I've heard other people say that perhaps for Verizon, perhaps for other carriers,

01:49:59   there is sometimes a button in settings that literally says, I don't remember the words they use, but basically

01:50:05   Convert this physical sim to an eSIM by way of magic and I've heard people say that it actually works

01:50:11   But one of the things I was very curious to read on these reviews and I've read a handful today and everyone

01:50:16   Seems to think that yeah as part of the setup process

01:50:19   It will generally speaking just convert your old sim to an eSIM and I was very curious to see how that goes and I haven't

01:50:25   Seen any review where they said oh it was a you know

01:50:28   Complete death march and it didn't work and everything broke and so on and so forth

01:50:32   So we'll see in the name of science. I have not converted Aaron's phone to an eSIM yet

01:50:38   So I will get both of these experiences

01:50:40   I will get one where I'm going eSIM to eSIM and I will get one where I'm going SIM to eSIM and I'm very curious

01:50:46   To see what happens that being said

01:50:48   If somebody has written like the definitive guide

01:50:52   To how to do an upgrade of a phone and a watch because I agree with you John

01:50:57   Like I am going on many year old year old information, which I didn't really consider until recently

01:51:03   But my my information was you know, you unpair your watch which you had mentioned you unpair your watch

01:51:07   And then you you know set up the new watch and during the setup process

01:51:11   It says do you want to take over from this backup and then you say yes, and that's that

01:51:14   that's how I did the watch and the

01:51:17   Many many year old information I had for the phone was doing iTunes now finder encrypted backup

01:51:24   which isn't necessarily getting any more data,

01:51:27   I don't think, than recent iCloud backups,

01:51:30   but supposedly a lot of things happen much quicker,

01:51:34   except I'm not even sure that's true anymore.

01:51:36   So I'm not trying to advocate any of the things

01:51:38   I've just said is the one true way.

01:51:40   In fact, it's quite the opposite.

01:51:42   Has somebody written up the one true way?

01:51:43   And if so, please point me to it,

01:51:45   'cause I'd love to see it.

01:51:45   This is what like Serenity Caldwell used to be great at

01:51:48   before she got sucked into Apple.

01:51:49   - The problem is it changes every year.

01:51:51   - That's also true. - A little bit, right?

01:51:52   So if you're getting a day one phone,

01:51:54   the article's not going to be ready on day one, probably,

01:51:56   because they have to do the research to find out

01:51:59   how it actually works.

01:52:01   So yeah, and it depends on your carrier.

01:52:03   And it depends on--

01:52:04   there's so many variables.

01:52:07   I mean, it must go smoothly for most people.

01:52:09   I think I've just had a streak of bad luck.

01:52:11   And I've been trying to.

01:52:13   I got away from using the encrypted iTunes backups

01:52:15   or anything.

01:52:16   I'll do the iCloud way and iCloud ways.

01:52:18   But I feel like the iCloud upgrade,

01:52:20   that code path is still getting work done to it.

01:52:22   And the Finder/iTunes one is like legacy.

01:52:25   So I think it's better to sort of leave that behind.

01:52:29   And my experience for the 12 Pro is

01:52:31   that once I actually got my cell number working on the thing,

01:52:34   the whole rest of the process in terms

01:52:35   of waiting for apps to load and everything through iCloud,

01:52:38   that was mostly fine.

01:52:40   I went through all this--

01:52:42   last time I did this, part of the problem

01:52:44   was transferring the two-factor stuff.

01:52:46   But now the Google app has an export feature.

01:52:48   So that's not a problem anymore.

01:52:50   I also have this unfortunate, bitter, and vast experience of how to export and decode

01:52:55   and reimport that information into the Apple keychain stuff, yada yada.

01:52:58   So I feel like it could potentially go smoothly, but we'll see.

01:53:03   And then you were very brave to, like I saw your article, like, "Oh, you have Verizon

01:53:08   and you converted to an eSIM."

01:53:09   And I looked at the instructions like, "Oh, maybe I should do that to make things easier."

01:53:12   But then I looked at the calendar and said, "Do I want to do this the day before I'm supposed

01:53:15   to be ordering my phone?"

01:53:16   Like who knows what will go wrong.

01:53:18   That whole thing where when you're using the Apple Store app

01:53:20   and it says, "Do you want to replace this phone?"

01:53:22   I didn't want to do anything

01:53:23   that could potentially confuse that process.

01:53:25   So I just left it alone, don't touch it.

01:53:27   - Yeah, that's understandable.

01:53:28   - I have a physical SIM

01:53:30   and I'm getting a phone with an eSIM.

01:53:32   This must be a case they understand.

01:53:33   My phone is not that old, it's a 12 Pro,

01:53:35   I bought a 14 Pro, this should just work, right Apple?

01:53:38   Tune in next week.

01:53:40   (laughing)

01:53:40   - Yeah, exactly.

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01:55:14   - Am I supposed to, so okay,

01:55:16   the, for the, back to the reading glasses thing

01:55:18   for just one moment,

01:55:19   am I supposed to get these blue blocking lenses

01:55:22   for computers or is that BS?

01:55:24   - It's BS.

01:55:25   - That's what I thought, okay.

01:55:27   - You should consider getting the scratch coding though.

01:55:30   And it doesn't matter for you

01:55:32   because your prescription is so low,

01:55:33   but once you, if your prescription ever gets bad

01:55:36   where the number is larger in absolute value than three,

01:55:40   consider getting high index.

01:55:44   Because it makes the, it's more expensive,

01:55:46   but it makes the lenses thinner

01:55:48   for the same light bending ability.

01:55:50   If you have really terrible vision like me and Casey,

01:55:52   you have to get that,

01:55:53   otherwise your glasses will just be an inch thick

01:55:55   and it's just hilarious.

01:55:56   I didn't get that once when I was a kid,

01:55:58   I don't remember, my parents would buy my glasses,

01:56:00   like, whoa, what happened here?

01:56:02   'Cause they were like,

01:56:04   And also, the bigger your glasses are in terms of diameter, the thicker it's going to be

01:56:09   at the edges, right?

01:56:10   Because it's like a curve cutout thing.

01:56:12   So I got big glasses with non-high index and they were just like...

01:56:16   You could put stickers on the side of the lenses.

01:56:18   They were so big.

01:56:19   It was like a wall of just fuzzy white...

01:56:24   But no, they keep pushing that blue blocking stuff.

01:56:27   And you should hear that.

01:56:28   It sounded like you trying to sell the gold printer cables.

01:56:30   They have a spiel that they give you filled with just total pseudo science like, you know,

01:56:34   it's like audio file gear or whatever.

01:56:36   It's like, oh yeah, no, the blue light will really tire you out.

01:56:39   You ever feel tired at the end of a day?

01:56:41   Work?

01:56:42   Yeah, it's the blue lights.

01:56:43   No, that's not what it is.

01:56:44   One of the symptoms that I was, I figured I should probably go to the eye doctor in addition

01:56:47   to my minimum focus distance being reduced is that my eyes, like they would often just

01:56:52   feel tired at like, you know, in the daytime when they shouldn't feel tired.

01:56:57   and just using my computer, my eyes would feel tired,

01:57:00   and that has never happened before.

01:57:02   And so I brought that up,

01:57:03   and so the optometrist recommended this stuff.

01:57:07   But I'm like, I'm curious how something that,

01:57:12   so how is it even meant to work?

01:57:14   'Cause the blue blocking allegedly,

01:57:16   quote, "blue," quote, "blocking," quote, "glasses,"

01:57:19   they're clear.

01:57:21   And I asked, does it cause a color cast,

01:57:24   the thing you're telling me to do, and he said, "No."

01:57:27   What is it filtering out?

01:57:29   - I think it's just filtering very high wavelength stuff.

01:57:32   I don't know if it's filtering UV, but maybe near UV,

01:57:36   like whatever, like first of all,

01:57:37   it's not filtering that much of anything.

01:57:38   Second, if you really want that,

01:57:39   put a night shift on your computer

01:57:41   so it looks like someone peed all over your screen.

01:57:42   (laughing)

01:57:43   Oh, stop.

01:57:44   - I tried that for a while, not recently,

01:57:46   but I remember, you know, a few years ago

01:57:47   when it came out, I did that, and it was, yeah.

01:57:50   - A more plausible reason why your eyes are getting tired

01:57:53   is part of the aging process is your squishy little eyeballs

01:57:56   get stiffer, kind of like the interior of a 90s BMW,

01:57:59   slowly getting hard, you know, and then crumbling, right?

01:58:02   So your eyeballs get stiffer,

01:58:03   and that means it is harder to change the shape

01:58:06   of your eyeball to change your focal distance.

01:58:08   That means the muscles that do that have to work harder.

01:58:10   And so for a day of like your eyes going,

01:58:12   "Oh, I gotta squish this old 40-year-old eyeball

01:58:15   "to focus on this screen.

01:58:16   "I've been doing it all day long.

01:58:17   "Boy, my eyes feel tired."

01:58:19   That's my, I'm not an eye doctor.

01:58:21   This is my vaguely plausible theory

01:58:24   that makes more sense than blue light makes you tired.

01:58:26   - Like, you know, because the doctor told me

01:58:29   I should probably get them, I'm like,

01:58:30   all right, let me look into this,

01:58:30   but I just, I can't find anything that supports that,

01:58:33   you know, at all, and it doesn't make sense

01:58:35   to me scientifically, it's like,

01:58:36   well, if you're filtering out stuff

01:58:38   that is like outside of the visible spectrum.

01:58:42   - I don't think it's entirely outside of it.

01:58:44   Like, there was one study that was like,

01:58:47   oh, blue light, if you look at blue light

01:58:48   before bed, you have trouble falling asleep,

01:58:50   and there's lots of people who have tried

01:58:51   to reproduce that one, and it's like,

01:58:53   - Yeah, but if only it was like a really hyper blue light

01:58:55   staring right in the, there's a whole,

01:58:56   you've heard the thing, oh don't look at your phone

01:58:58   before you go to bed, you'll have trouble falling asleep.

01:58:59   - We talked about it, we talked about it on this show,

01:59:01   like when Night Shift was introduced.

01:59:03   - Right, but it's like, I mean, if it works for you, fine,

01:59:06   but I don't think anyone has had any sort of reproducible

01:59:09   scientific basis with a measurable effect

01:59:12   for anything having to do with this,

01:59:13   and certainly those lens things, like you said,

01:59:16   like unless it's making everything look like Night Shift,

01:59:18   how much blue is it actually blocking?

01:59:20   - That's the thing, yeah, 'cause it's like,

01:59:22   And I believe where we landed on the science of that

01:59:25   back when NINCHTF came out, we did,

01:59:27   like you were saying earlier, we did an episode about it,

01:59:29   and then people wrote in who knew way more

01:59:30   than we did about it, and we did some follow-up,

01:59:33   and really what it came down to was

01:59:36   there was no scientific consensus

01:59:37   that supported this being a thing,

01:59:39   but it was a preference, and if you happen to prefer

01:59:41   the way it looks, go ahead, knock yourself out,

01:59:43   but there wasn't a lot of science behind it.

01:59:46   But again, it's just who cares if that's what you like, right?

01:59:48   - Yeah, I mean, there is scientific basis

01:59:50   for light setting your circadian cycles.

01:59:52   That has nothing to do with blue light in particular,

01:59:54   but just like, hey, turn off the lights

01:59:56   when you go to sleep, lights come up when you,

01:59:58   like they have those morning wake up light types things,

02:00:00   like circadian rhythm, human circadian rhythm

02:00:02   being influenced by how much light you get affected by

02:00:05   is totally true, but that's like,

02:00:07   I mean, I guess don't stare at your phone

02:00:09   from two inches away until two a.m.

02:00:11   and then you'll find yourself tired the next day,

02:00:13   but that has less to do with blue light.

02:00:15   - Right, but also if you're having trouble falling asleep

02:00:17   because you just like doom scrolled Twitter

02:00:19   for an hour before bed.

02:00:20   Like I think the problem is not the blue light.

02:00:22   - That could also be related,

02:00:23   more than the blue light is the anxiety

02:00:25   you're building up on.

02:00:26   - Yeah, exactly, exactly.

02:00:28   Yeah, I was just, I'm like,

02:00:30   by what mechanism are the glasses

02:00:33   that do not make a color cast in the visible image?

02:00:35   By what mechanism are they supposed to be working?

02:00:37   - I don't know, it's like blue light

02:00:38   just makes you more awake or something

02:00:41   or like causes more eye strain, I don't know.

02:00:43   - But how can it be blocking light

02:00:44   if it doesn't shift the colors?

02:00:46   - I think I said it, if you just block

02:00:48   like the very highest wavelengths

02:00:51   and maybe wouldn't do a color shift.

02:00:53   And the best part of these things,

02:00:54   kind of like the scratch coating is,

02:00:55   and like any option on a car,

02:00:57   whatever it costs them, like the 0.001 cent

02:01:00   it costs them to put that coating on the glasses,

02:01:01   it's like 50 bucks.

02:01:03   - Oh yeah, it's pure profit.

02:01:05   - 'Cause that's what you do, especially if you have

02:01:08   my prescription or, well, cases you can't even wear glasses,

02:01:11   you start off with the base price of the glasses,

02:01:13   which is already ridiculous,

02:01:14   but of course you want the high index,

02:01:15   so that's like $150, but of course you want

02:01:17   the scratch code and he says another extra $50.

02:01:18   And it's like buying an iPhone.

02:01:20   You thought you were buying a thing for X amount,

02:01:21   then you look at the final price,

02:01:22   like what happened here?

02:01:23   - Yep, yep.

02:01:26   Oh, that's so true.

02:01:27   Remember both my kids have glasses,

02:01:29   and it's the same story.

02:01:31   Like, and I looked at doing one of,

02:01:33   it wasn't Warby Parker, because last I looked,

02:01:36   they don't make kids glasses,

02:01:37   but I looked at doing some like online only vendor,

02:01:40   and it ends up that, yeah, the most basic glasses

02:01:44   that look not too different

02:01:45   than the ones the kids already have are like 100 bucks, great.

02:01:48   But then you add the anti-reflective coating

02:01:50   or whatever it is, and then you add the scratch proof,

02:01:52   and then you add the transitions

02:01:54   because they're not about to wear sunglasses.

02:01:56   And so you add, you add, you add, you add, you add,

02:01:58   and suddenly this $100 pair of sunglasses

02:02:01   is like 50 bucks cheaper at best

02:02:03   than the $500 pair we can get from the eye doctor,

02:02:07   you know, or whatever the case may be.

02:02:08   Like it's just bananas.

02:02:10   It's like buying a Porsche every year for each kid.

02:02:12   - Yeah, and like Margot,

02:02:13   you haven't actually looked at the prices.

02:02:14   $500 for a pair of glasses is not ridiculous.

02:02:18   - Yeah, well, I mean, fortunately,

02:02:19   since I'm still in reader territory,

02:02:21   I don't think I'm gonna be near that yet.

02:02:24   - You see how much that you find a pair of frames

02:02:25   that you like, oh, I like this little bent piece of metal,

02:02:27   how much is this little bent piece of metal?

02:02:29   Oh, that's $350, like, what?

02:02:31   I can make this out of a paperclip.

02:02:32   It's like, it barely weighs anything.

02:02:34   It is just, it's like, oh yes, but it's all about fashion.

02:02:38   - I will be the first to tell you,

02:02:38   I've never bought readers, but I would be very surprised

02:02:42   if they are significantly cheaper

02:02:44   than quote unquote regular eyeglasses.

02:02:47   - Yeah, 'cause the frames, you're buying the frame.

02:02:48   You find frames that you like

02:02:49   and then they'll put whatever lenses you want

02:02:51   inside those frames.

02:02:52   - Yeah, I mean, yeah, and I'm sure I can get

02:02:54   really nice frames and they could put something

02:02:57   with almost no adjustment in it and it'd be fine,

02:03:01   but anyway, I don't know.

02:03:03   I'll dive into this world as much as I need to

02:03:05   and reluctantly accept the fact that I am old.

02:03:10   - Oh, it's true.

02:03:11   [beeping]

02:03:13   [