ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I am here on time in part thanks to a product

00:00:05 ◼   ► that I never thought I would use before,

00:00:07 ◼   ► a rapid tire deflator.

00:00:10 ◼   ► - Isn't that just called a knife?

00:00:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, right. (laughs)

00:00:13 ◼   ► - I think a knife is the most rapid tire deflator,

00:00:15 ◼   ► but unfortunately that makes it difficult

00:00:17 ◼   ► to use the tire afterwards.

00:00:19 ◼   ► I first got this when I first started driving on the beach

00:00:22 ◼   ► because you're supposed to air down your tires

00:00:25 ◼   ► down to like the 20 PSI-ish range

00:00:27 ◼   ► when you're driving on the sand here

00:00:29 ◼   ► to keep things, not only to keep yourself from getting stuck

00:00:31 ◼   ► but to keep yourself from tearing up the beach too much

00:00:34 ◼   ► unnecessarily and tearing up some of the routes.

00:00:37 ◼   ► - Oh, I just realized, now that I've been thinking

00:00:38 ◼   ► about this, it sucks, doesn't it?

00:00:41 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:43 ◼   ► - No.

00:00:44 ◼   ► - 'Cause that's the only way it could work, right?

00:00:45 ◼   ► Go on, go on.

00:00:46 ◼   ► - So anyway, so I frequently have to change my tire pressure

00:00:49 ◼   ► in both directions between like 20-ish

00:00:52 ◼   ► and like, you know, 40-ish PSI.

00:00:54 ◼   ► If I'm going on a long highway drive,

00:00:56 ◼   ► I wanna put it up to about 40

00:00:58 ◼   ► just for additional rigidity and safety

00:01:00 ◼   ► and a little bit of efficiency.

00:01:01 ◼   ► Although it's a giant box. - Whoa, slow down.

00:01:03 ◼   ► - Like it's not gonna be that efficient, but you know.

00:01:04 ◼   ► - How did you land on 40?

00:01:07 ◼   ► - It, well the car wants me to do 50,

00:01:08 ◼   ► and I think that's dumb, so I get impatient

00:01:11 ◼   ► and stop after 30. - No way it wants 50 pounds.

00:01:13 ◼   ► - Is that what it says on the door jamb?

00:01:15 ◼   ► - Thank you, Jon.

00:01:17 ◼   ► - I think it says 45 or 48 on the door jamb.

00:01:20 ◼   ► - No way.

00:01:21 ◼   ► - Is this a case where Casey asked to Google

00:01:23 ◼   ► for the PDF of your car manual again?

00:01:25 ◼   ► - Yes, either way the-- - Seriously.

00:01:27 ◼   ► - What year is your car?

00:01:28 ◼   ► It's a Land Rover Defender, what year?

00:01:29 ◼   ► - 2021.

00:01:30 ◼   ► - I will solve this.

00:01:31 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:01:32 ◼   ► So, and it has, like, the one that happened to be

00:01:35 ◼   ► on the dealer lot in the color I wanted

00:01:37 ◼   ► has this optional accessory of an onboard

00:01:39 ◼   ► inflator deflator thing, which is really fun.

00:01:41 ◼   ► It's in the trunk and you come to this big hose,

00:01:43 ◼   ► you reach all four tires.

00:01:44 ◼   ► So it's fun, it's just slow.

00:01:46 ◼   ► And so I haven't found a rapid tire inflator yet,

00:01:48 ◼   ► besides, you know, I don't know, a bomb,

00:01:50 ◼   ► but a rapid tire deflator is this thing that,

00:01:55 ◼   ► Again, I'll put it in the show notes

00:01:57 ◼   ► when I'll find the link and dig it up.

00:01:58 ◼   ► But it's this weird little contraption that normally,

00:02:02 ◼   ► if you wanna deflate it as higher quickly,

00:02:03 ◼   ► you can do a compressor that just kinda like

00:02:06 ◼   ► holds the valve in and lets air out.

00:02:09 ◼   ► Or you can poke the valve stem with a coin or a key

00:02:12 ◼   ► or something if you wanna do it that way.

00:02:14 ◼   ► But what this thing does is it screws onto the valve

00:02:20 ◼   ► stem thing and then there's an inner thing that you twist

00:02:24 ◼   ► once it's screwed onto the valve,

00:02:27 ◼   ► you twist this inner thing the opposite direction

00:02:29 ◼   ► and it unscrews the inner valve stem

00:02:33 ◼   ► and lets it pop out inside of itself

00:02:36 ◼   ► and then you just pop a thing and it just,

00:02:39 ◼   ► psh, lets huge amounts of air out.

00:02:41 ◼   ► It can go from 40 PSI to 20 PSI in 20 seconds.

00:02:46 ◼   ► It's massively fast.

00:02:47 ◼   ► - I find this very alarming.

00:02:49 ◼   ► So I could be, yeah, it doesn't suck.

00:02:51 ◼   ► - Yes, it just basically disassembles

00:02:53 ◼   ► your tire valve temporarily,

00:02:55 ◼   ► and I was able to deflate all four of my tires

00:02:58 ◼   ► from 40 to 20 in less than five minutes.

00:03:01 ◼   ► It was shockingly fast. (laughs)

00:03:04 ◼   ► So anyway, I don't know who needs this product

00:03:07 ◼   ► besides a very small handful of people,

00:03:09 ◼   ► but if you are one of those handful of people,

00:03:11 ◼   ► this is amazing.

00:03:12 ◼   ► Check it out. (laughs)

00:03:14 ◼   ► - Why is it so difficult for me to find

00:03:16 ◼   ► the owner's manual for this car?

00:03:18 ◼   ► Why is this like state secrets?

00:03:20 ◼   ► I will say this is actually gonna be

00:03:22 ◼   ► the KCEO's Marco apology tour episode apparently,

00:03:25 ◼   ► but according to a spot of Googling,

00:03:27 ◼   ► it was, I found a very unofficial looking site

00:03:30 ◼   ► that said it was like 47 or 50 pounds,

00:03:32 ◼   ► which is what you said to your credit,

00:03:33 ◼   ► and I said no frickin' way.

00:03:35 ◼   ► But I'm trying to find the actual owner's manual,

00:03:38 ◼   ► and I can't.

00:03:40 ◼   ► - So one thing, it lets you kind of customize

00:03:43 ◼   ► the different sections of the dashboard

00:03:45 ◼   ► to a few different selections,

00:03:46 ◼   ► and I want a constant display on the left side

00:03:49 ◼   ► of the four tire pressures.

00:03:51 ◼   ► There is no option for that.

00:03:53 ◼   ► However, if it's below the recommended pressure,

00:03:56 ◼   ► it puts it up there by default

00:03:57 ◼   ► until you click a certain button.

00:03:59 ◼   ► And because mine are always below the,

00:04:02 ◼   ► this is why I know the recommendation is higher than 40,

00:04:04 ◼   ► mine are always below the recommendation.

00:04:05 ◼   ► And so because of that,

00:04:08 ◼   ► as long as I don't hit this one button,

00:04:10 ◼   ► it's displaying the four tire pressures all the time,

00:04:12 ◼   ► which is a nice little accidental feature,

00:04:14 ◼   ► but I'm really enjoying it.

00:04:16 ◼   ► - Well, I owe you an apology.

00:04:18 ◼   ► I am apparently very wrong.

00:04:20 ◼   ► Oh wait, okay, oh no wait, I found it, but it's not a PDF.

00:04:23 ◼   ► Just give me a friggin' PDF!

00:04:25 ◼   ► God, I hate everything.

00:04:26 ◼   ► (electronic beeping)

00:04:28 ◼   ► - So, before we get into topics,

00:04:29 ◼   ► I wanna start this episode also

00:04:31 ◼   ► with a public service announcement.

00:04:33 ◼   ► If you know people in your life with Apple Watches,

00:04:38 ◼   ► in the most kind way possible,

00:04:40 ◼   ► if you see them using an Apple Watch face

00:04:44 ◼   ► that has complications, you will blow their mind

00:04:49 ◼   ► If at some opportune time,

00:04:50 ◼   ► if they're open to such suggestions,

00:04:52 ◼   ► you tell them, hey, by the way,

00:04:53 ◼   ► you know you can change what those are.

00:04:56 ◼   ► So in my experience, I have a bunch of friends

00:04:58 ◼   ► who are kind of nerdy,

00:05:00 ◼   ► who they're nerdy enough to get an Apple Watch,

00:05:02 ◼   ► and they're nerdy enough to care about it being good,

00:05:06 ◼   ► but not nerdy enough to be able to know some of that stuff,

00:05:09 ◼   ► like you can customize the face and all the complications.

00:05:13 ◼   ► And I've shown a couple of people this

00:05:15 ◼   ► in the last couple of weeks,

00:05:17 ◼   ► And these are people who've worn an Apple Watch for years.

00:05:20 ◼   ► And every time, I'll see that they're using

00:05:23 ◼   ► the Infograph modular face, it's full of complications.

00:05:26 ◼   ► And the default set is like, it's okay,

00:05:28 ◼   ► you know, you got a weather, okay,

00:05:29 ◼   ► then you got the compass, like eh, it's like how you,

00:05:32 ◼   ► you know, there's a couple things on there

00:05:33 ◼   ► I think most people wouldn't use.

00:05:35 ◼   ► And sometimes they'll see mine, they're like,

00:05:37 ◼   ► oh, what face is that?

00:05:38 ◼   ► 'Cause mine's of course all customized.

00:05:39 ◼   ► And when I show them, like hey, you can hold down here,

00:05:42 ◼   ► swipe over, and then you can change every single one

00:05:45 ◼   ► of those to all these different things.

00:05:47 ◼   ► Everyone's like, oh my god, it changes their,

00:05:50 ◼   ► it blows their mind.

00:05:51 ◼   ► They're so amazed.

00:05:53 ◼   ► No one knows that you can customize watch faces,

00:05:56 ◼   ► especially complications.

00:05:58 ◼   ► So just PSA, if someone you know uses a face

00:06:02 ◼   ► with complications and you see that they're all the defaults

00:06:04 ◼   ► 'cause they usually are, again, some opportune time,

00:06:07 ◼   ► don't be like the annoying nerd like, you know,

00:06:08 ◼   ► like you know, at some nice time, be like, hey, by the way,

00:06:10 ◼   ► you know you can change that and here's how

00:06:12 ◼   ► and show them how.

00:06:13 ◼   ► You can also show them that they can have multiple faces

00:06:16 ◼   ► they can swipe between really easily.

00:06:18 ◼   ► No one knows that either.

00:06:19 ◼   ► And both of those things I have had

00:06:22 ◼   ► very strong positive reactions to when I have shown people.

00:06:25 ◼   ► - As a non-Apple Watch wearer who does know

00:06:28 ◼   ► that you can change complications,

00:06:29 ◼   ► every time I try to change complications

00:06:31 ◼   ► on someone else's Apple Watch for them,

00:06:32 ◼   ► I have to like refigure out how to do it.

00:06:34 ◼   ► It is not an obvious UI,

00:06:36 ◼   ► so I don't really blame people for not,

00:06:38 ◼   ► I mean, I kinda blame them for not knowing it's possible,

00:06:40 ◼   ► but even when you know it's possible,

00:06:43 ◼   ► it's not obvious how to do it

00:06:45 ◼   ► if you haven't done it recently.

00:06:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:06:47 ◼   ► Like so many things about touchscreen discoverability,

00:06:50 ◼   ► like it's so much worse on the watch

00:06:51 ◼   ► 'cause it's such a small screen.

00:06:52 ◼   ► - It is way worse on the watch 'cause there's just nothing.

00:06:55 ◼   ► There's nothing there for you.

00:06:56 ◼   ► And I think the, sort of the credit

00:06:58 ◼   ► to the original Apple design,

00:07:00 ◼   ► having two things that you can press,

00:07:02 ◼   ► the button and the crown both press in,

00:07:05 ◼   ► does add to the number of possibilities

00:07:07 ◼   ► of things that I have to blindly try

00:07:08 ◼   ► before I figure out how to work things.

00:07:10 ◼   ► And then of course, oh, I forgot,

00:07:11 ◼   ► you can turn the ground too.

00:07:12 ◼   ► And it's like, it's just,

00:07:13 ◼   ► I go through the same little dance every time I do it.

00:07:15 ◼   ► It's ridiculous.

00:07:17 ◼   ► - Do you know Marco, if you have 18, 19, 20 or 22 inch rims?

00:07:20 ◼   ► - 19.

00:07:21 ◼   ► - Then 47 pounds up front, 50 in the back.

00:07:24 ◼   ► - Bam. - I am wrong.

00:07:26 ◼   ► Well done.

00:07:27 ◼   ► I have never seen tire pressures that high.

00:07:29 ◼   ► Goodness.

00:07:30 ◼   ► - It's 'cause they're big tires, right?

00:07:31 ◼   ► It's big.

00:07:32 ◼   ► - I mean, I guess.

00:07:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, they're pretty big.

00:07:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, I did eventually find it because Google,

00:07:36 ◼   ► not because of Land Rover site,

00:07:37 ◼   ► which as I've heard is trash.

00:07:39 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:07:40 ◼   ► - But hey, you know what is not trash?

00:07:42 ◼   ► What is not trash is ATP merch,

00:07:45 ◼   ► which is available right now, baby, at ATP.fm/store.

00:07:49 ◼   ► So, you know how every time I say,

00:07:52 ◼   ► "Oh, you really gotta order quick

00:07:53 ◼   ► "'cause you never know if something's gonna sell out, huh?

00:07:55 ◼   ► "You never know."

00:07:56 ◼   ► Well, guess what?

00:07:58 ◼   ► Guess what?

00:07:59 ◼   ► It's happened.

00:08:00 ◼   ► Chicken hats, boom, gone.

00:08:02 ◼   ► Second run of chicken hats,

00:08:03 ◼   ► which we did like under duress, boom, gone.

00:08:07 ◼   ► Pint glasses, gone.

00:08:08 ◼   ► Mugs, gone.

00:08:09 ◼   ► You snooze, you lose.

00:08:11 ◼   ► No sympathy from me.

00:08:12 ◼   ► This is what you get.

00:08:13 ◼   ► You had sympathy from the other two, not from me.

00:08:15 ◼   ► I warned you, I warned you.

00:08:17 ◼   ► We did the visualization exercise,

00:08:19 ◼   ► which I'm pretty sure I stole from Mike Hurley.

00:08:20 ◼   ► We did the exercise together.

00:08:22 ◼   ► You still didn't order, and this is on you.

00:08:24 ◼   ► But for those that haven't ordered

00:08:26 ◼   ► and would still like lovely, excellent, delightful merch,

00:08:29 ◼   ► we still have M2 shirts in colored and monochrome versions.

00:08:33 ◼   ► We have the classic ATP logo shirt.

00:08:35 ◼   ► we have the utterly delightful ATP hoodie, all available.

00:08:38 ◼   ► So if you're interested, and you should be,

00:08:41 ◼   ► go to ATP.fm/store, and you can buy any of these three,

00:08:46 ◼   ► four items, the two different varieties of shirt,

00:08:49 ◼   ► well, three if you include the ATP one and the hoodie,

00:08:51 ◼   ► all available.

00:08:52 ◼   ► And remember, members, if you are a member,

00:08:55 ◼   ► and you can become a member at ATP.fm/join,

00:08:58 ◼   ► then you get 15% off.

00:08:59 ◼   ► You can get your bespoke discount code on your member page.

00:09:01 ◼   ► It's all linked from ATP.fm/store.

00:09:04 ◼   ► Go get yourself some treats.

00:09:05 ◼   ► treat yourself, you deserve a treat,

00:09:06 ◼   ► you deserve several treats, treat yourself,

00:09:08 ◼   ► treat your friends, treat your husband,

00:09:09 ◼   ► treat your wife, treat everybody, ATP.fm/store.

00:09:12 ◼   ► - Couple more items on the store.

00:09:15 ◼   ► Reminder about the monochrome M2 shirt,

00:09:18 ◼   ► it just shows like a blue shirt with white,

00:09:20 ◼   ► but it comes in a whole bunch of different colors.

00:09:21 ◼   ► So if you know, the regular M2 one,

00:09:24 ◼   ► the really expensive one with the color stripes

00:09:26 ◼   ► just comes in black, but this other one comes in like red,

00:09:30 ◼   ► purple, green, pink, teal,

00:09:32 ◼   ► so check out the different colors,

00:09:33 ◼   ► think a lot of them look really good.

00:09:34 ◼   ► Second thing, if you, for one of the sold out items,

00:09:37 ◼   ► chicken hat, pint glass, or mug, all three of which,

00:09:40 ◼   ► I specifically warned you about last week

00:09:42 ◼   ► as the ones that would sell it first.

00:09:43 ◼   ► And they did in the order that I said.

00:09:46 ◼   ► - Wait, in all fairness, before we rag on people

00:09:48 ◼   ► too hard on this, which Casey already did,

00:09:50 ◼   ► you do have some sympathy for me because, like,

00:09:52 ◼   ► the first batch of the chicken hats,

00:09:54 ◼   ► it was like halfway gone before we even published

00:09:56 ◼   ► the episode, just from bootleg listeners.

00:09:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, that is true, that is true.

00:09:59 ◼   ► - We ordered, we guessed wrong on the demand

00:10:03 ◼   ► for the chicken hat, that's on us.

00:10:04 ◼   ► But we did do a second order,

00:10:06 ◼   ► and we did a second order for more than twice

00:10:08 ◼   ► the amount of the first order, and that sold out too.

00:10:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, as much as I'm snarking earlier,

00:10:12 ◼   ► that is 100% accurate, and that is 100% on us,

00:10:15 ◼   ► that we clearly underestimate, which is lovely,

00:10:17 ◼   ► and actually a heck of a compliment

00:10:18 ◼   ► from our wonderful listeners.

00:10:20 ◼   ► It was a complete miss on our part.

00:10:22 ◼   ► We thought nobody would be interested in a hat

00:10:25 ◼   ► that we presented as something that John bought

00:10:28 ◼   ► 20 years ago and really likes, but it turns out--

00:10:30 ◼   ► - And it's weird shaped. - And it's weird shaped.

00:10:32 ◼   ► - But it turns out the poll of John Siracusen

00:10:35 ◼   ► has no bounds, knows no bounds.

00:10:37 ◼   ► - Morbid curiosity is what I would call it.

00:10:39 ◼   ► But anyway, related to the sold out items,

00:10:41 ◼   ► if you go, they're still on the store page,

00:10:43 ◼   ► they just put like sold out text on them,

00:10:45 ◼   ► but you can still click through on them.

00:10:46 ◼   ► Click the little buy link, click the name,

00:10:48 ◼   ► click the image, like anyway, click through to the item.

00:10:51 ◼   ► It has a button on the store that says bring it back.

00:10:53 ◼   ► It's just cotton beer is like normal,

00:10:54 ◼   ► like hey, I want this even though it's not in stock.

00:10:57 ◼   ► If you still want a hat, a pint glass, or a mug,

00:11:00 ◼   ► click through on it and then click the bring it back thing.

00:11:02 ◼   ► it makes you enter the email address

00:11:04 ◼   ► 'cause they wanna email you when it comes back in stock.

00:11:05 ◼   ► And I know that's annoying,

00:11:06 ◼   ► but Cotton Bureau is good with email.

00:11:08 ◼   ► That's how we knew, sort of,

00:11:10 ◼   ► that's how we gauge demand

00:11:11 ◼   ► for the second order of chicken hats

00:11:13 ◼   ► based on how many people click the bring it back link

00:11:15 ◼   ► and enter an email address.

00:11:17 ◼   ► And that gave us a rough estimate

00:11:18 ◼   ► of how many people probably wanted them.

00:11:19 ◼   ► And I think we got it pretty close

00:11:20 ◼   ► 'cause towards the end of selling out of the chicken hats,

00:11:23 ◼   ► the sales were really slowing down.

00:11:25 ◼   ► It was like just a real trick alike.

00:11:27 ◼   ► The number wouldn't move at all for like hours at a time.

00:11:29 ◼   ► So I think we kind of mostly met demand,

00:11:31 ◼   ► but we're not entirely sure.

00:11:32 ◼   ► And the mugs we did a new order of,

00:11:34 ◼   ► and the pint glass we were just selling through an old order.

00:11:36 ◼   ► So in order for us to have a better idea for the next sale,

00:11:41 ◼   ► how much demand there is for this stuff,

00:11:43 ◼   ► you can use that bring it back button,

00:11:45 ◼   ► and it just ticks up a counter

00:11:47 ◼   ► that we can see on our internal dashboards

00:11:48 ◼   ► to know how many people are actually interested

00:11:50 ◼   ► in this again.

00:11:51 ◼   ► So that's my suggestion there.

00:11:53 ◼   ► And then finally,

00:11:54 ◼   ► lots of people are sending pictures of the chicken hats.

00:11:56 ◼   ► If you ordered it, especially if you were in the first batch,

00:11:58 ◼   ► you might get them already.

00:11:59 ◼   ► I already got my chicken hat,

00:12:00 ◼   ► and lots of people are getting them,

00:12:02 ◼   ► 'cause the things that are in stock,

00:12:03 ◼   ► I think, I'm not sure about the mugs and the pint glasses,

00:12:05 ◼   ► but certainly the hats,

00:12:06 ◼   ► they just ship them as soon as they get them.

00:12:07 ◼   ► The other ones we have to wait until the campaign is over

00:12:09 ◼   ► so they know how many they have to print

00:12:11 ◼   ► 'cause they're gonna make them

00:12:12 ◼   ► based on how many people order them.

00:12:14 ◼   ► Anyway, people are sending me pictures

00:12:15 ◼   ► of them wearing the chicken hat.

00:12:17 ◼   ► Bad on us for not including instructions with the hat

00:12:19 ◼   ► and far be it for me to tell you how to wear hats.

00:12:24 ◼   ► And I was like, yeah, you put it on your head.

00:12:25 ◼   ► People are getting that far.

00:12:27 ◼   ► But part of the reason it's called a chicken hat

00:12:29 ◼   ► is 'cause it looks a little bit like

00:12:31 ◼   ► the little thing on top of a chicken or a rooster's head,

00:12:34 ◼   ► the little floppy thing.

00:12:35 ◼   ► - The little mohawk thing?

00:12:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, and that mohawk thing,

00:12:39 ◼   ► it's like a vertical fin that goes from front to back.

00:12:41 ◼   ► That's how, I'm not gonna say supposed to be warm,

00:12:44 ◼   ► but that's how I wear the chicken hat,

00:12:46 ◼   ► is front to back, like a shark fin, right?

00:12:50 ◼   ► And then second thing to know is,

00:12:52 ◼   ► this hat, although it's pretty uniform,

00:12:54 ◼   ► it does have a seam.

00:12:56 ◼   ► Like there is a seam down one part,

00:12:57 ◼   ► and the seam goes in the back,

00:12:59 ◼   ► like most items of clothing that have a seam.

00:13:01 ◼   ► The seam goes in the back,

00:13:03 ◼   ► which means that the little ATP tag

00:13:05 ◼   ► is also more towards the back.

00:13:07 ◼   ► Originally, we wanted that tag to be in the front,

00:13:09 ◼   ► but they made the first batch of them with them on the back,

00:13:11 ◼   ► and then seeing people put them on their heads,

00:13:15 ◼   ► and especially with glasses,

00:13:16 ◼   ► the tag, when it's on the front,

00:13:17 ◼   ► kind of interferes with the glasses

00:13:19 ◼   ► and messes up the line of the thing.

00:13:21 ◼   ► So we made the second batch.

00:13:22 ◼   ► I said, "Put the tag in the back.

00:13:23 ◼   ► I think it looks better there."

00:13:24 ◼   ► But everybody who I see wearing this online

00:13:26 ◼   ► thinks the tag goes in the front,

00:13:27 ◼   ► And it can, like it's a uniform hat, it's a single color.

00:13:30 ◼   ► No one's gonna see that the seam is in the front.

00:13:32 ◼   ► But technically the seam goes in the back

00:13:34 ◼   ► and the hat goes vertically forward and backwards.

00:13:37 ◼   ► You wanna wear it any other way, feel free.

00:13:39 ◼   ► It's your hat, you can do whatever you want with it,

00:13:41 ◼   ► but I'm just saying for the, if you're wondering,

00:13:43 ◼   ► how does Jon wear his chicken hat?

00:13:45 ◼   ► I wear it chicken style, like a dorsal fin

00:13:49 ◼   ► with the seam in the back.

00:13:51 ◼   ► - All right, we got a lot to talk about.

00:13:53 ◼   ► Let's do some follow up.

00:13:54 ◼   ► I need to continue my apology tour for Marco.

00:13:57 ◼   ► Apparently based on our feedback freaking nobody knew how to use the AirPods Pro 2 volume control

00:14:04 ◼   ► Vindicated. Yeah, I assumed that this was obvious. I do not have Pro 2. I only have the the

00:14:10 ◼   ► pedestrian original OG AirPods Pro

00:14:13 ◼   ► And I just assumed this was pretty self-explanatory and wow did I assume wrong because we got a lot of very kind feedback saying

00:14:20 ◼   ► Oh my goodness. Thank you so much for telling me how to do this. I had no idea

00:14:24 ◼   ► So Marco, first of all, I'm sorry because I think I was snickering in your general direction

00:14:29 ◼   ► last week and saying, "Oh my gosh, are you serious?"

00:14:31 ◼   ► And it turns out I was wrong.

00:14:33 ◼   ► Second of all, would you mind reiterating, since we brought it up again, can you just

00:14:36 ◼   ► quickly reiterate how is it that you control the volume on an AirPods Pro 2, please?

00:14:42 ◼   ► So you don't use two different fingers in motion, as I was doing, like front and back

00:14:47 ◼   ► kind of, you know, doing something to it.

00:14:51 ◼   ► You don't do that.

00:14:53 ◼   ► Instead, you put the thumb of your hand

00:14:56 ◼   ► on the back of the stem to hold it in place,

00:14:58 ◼   ► and with your index finger, you swipe up or down

00:15:02 ◼   ► on the front flat part of the stick

00:15:05 ◼   ► to change it up and down.

00:15:06 ◼   ► And you know you did it because only that AirPod

00:15:09 ◼   ► will make a little click sound out of that ear

00:15:12 ◼   ► to confirm that you did it.

00:15:14 ◼   ► And so my mistake was moving both fingers.

00:15:16 ◼   ► What you're supposed to do is support it with one finger

00:15:19 ◼   ► and swipe with the other.

00:15:20 ◼   ► - Yep, so my apologies, Marco,

00:15:22 ◼   ► you were right to bring it up and I was wrong.

00:15:25 ◼   ► - I am so happy, so many people wrote in

00:15:27 ◼   ► and were like, yeah, I didn't know how to do it either,

00:15:28 ◼   ► or I've been doing it wrong, I also wrote it off.

00:15:31 ◼   ► I'm so vindicated, I thought I was the only one.

00:15:33 ◼   ► I felt so dumb when I finally figured it out.

00:15:36 ◼   ► That's why I wrote it up on the show,

00:15:38 ◼   ► to be like, hopefully somebody else can feel less dumb

00:15:42 ◼   ► by this, and sure enough, many people now feel less dumb.

00:15:45 ◼   ► So mission accomplished. - Dozens, dozens.

00:15:47 ◼   ► - Yes. - And hearing your

00:15:48 ◼   ► complication story, I wonder if the people

00:15:49 ◼   ► who didn't know that you could adjust the volume

00:15:51 ◼   ► by swiping and were just too embarrassed to write in.

00:15:53 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:15:54 ◼   ► - You can change complications?

00:15:56 ◼   ► - What?

00:15:57 ◼   ► - You can change, well, and keep in mind,

00:15:58 ◼   ► this volume thing only works on the AirPods Pro 2.

00:16:02 ◼   ► It doesn't work on the AirPods 3,

00:16:04 ◼   ► it doesn't work on the original AirPods Pro,

00:16:05 ◼   ► even though they all look kinda similar.

00:16:07 ◼   ► - We are sponsored this week by Linode,

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00:16:12 ◼   ► Visit linode.com/ATP and see why so many people,

00:16:16 ◼   ► including us, use Linode to host our servers.

00:16:20 ◼   ► I run a lot of servers.

00:16:22 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:16:23 ◼   ► And Linode makes it super easy.

00:16:24 ◼   ► They're all at Linode.

00:16:26 ◼   ► I've moved off of all of their hosts

00:16:27 ◼   ► over the last few years because Linode is by far the best.

00:16:30 ◼   ► They even have other services now,

00:16:32 ◼   ► things like an S3 compatible object storage,

00:16:35 ◼   ► which I'm also now using.

00:16:36 ◼   ► They have managed load balancers, managed backups.

00:16:39 ◼   ► They also now have managed databases.

00:16:41 ◼   ► I'm not using those yet,

00:16:42 ◼   ► but those are very tempting, honestly.

00:16:43 ◼   ► So Linode is great.

00:16:45 ◼   ► They're an amazing web host to run servers

00:16:47 ◼   ► and all these different managed services they now offer.

00:16:49 ◼   ► And they have amazing support, amazing capabilities,

00:16:52 ◼   ► huge variation in things like resource levels

00:16:55 ◼   ► and what you're concentrating on for your resources

00:16:58 ◼   ► so you can have like high memory or high CPU

00:17:00 ◼   ► or GPU compute plans.

00:17:02 ◼   ► All of that in so much variety.

00:17:03 ◼   ► And what really is great about Linode

00:17:06 ◼   ► is that you get all of that at incredible value.

00:17:09 ◼   ► This is why I got there in the first place

00:17:11 ◼   ► almost a decade ago.

00:17:12 ◼   ► And that has kept me there all this time

00:17:14 ◼   ► because I have not found a better value

00:17:16 ◼   ► in the hosting business.

00:17:18 ◼   ► At all times, I've been with them,

00:17:19 ◼   ► again, for almost a decade now,

00:17:21 ◼   ► they have been either the cheapest

00:17:23 ◼   ► or tied for the cheapest for anything I'm looking to get.

00:17:26 ◼   ► And I have a lot of stuff there,

00:17:28 ◼   ► so that really adds up.

00:17:29 ◼   ► And so I'm just super happy at Linode.

00:17:31 ◼   ► I strongly recommend,

00:17:32 ◼   ► whether you're gonna spend five bucks a month

00:17:34 ◼   ► for a really basic VPS kind of server,

00:17:36 ◼   ► or whether you're really going in

00:17:37 ◼   ► and making some really big stuff,

00:17:39 ◼   ► Linode scales with you.

00:17:40 ◼   ► They offer the same great support,

00:17:42 ◼   ► no matter how much money you're spending with them.

00:17:43 ◼   ► It's a great server host and they have a whole API

00:17:47 ◼   ► and everything, it's amazing being a Linode customer.

00:17:49 ◼   ► See for yourself, linode.com/atp.

00:17:52 ◼   ► Create a free account, they only get $100 in credit.

00:17:55 ◼   ► Once again, linode.com/atp,

00:17:57 ◼   ► run all your cloud stuff at Linode.

00:17:59 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Linode for hosting all my servers

00:18:02 ◼   ► and sponsoring our show.

00:18:03 ◼   ► - I have a little bit of news about my beloved,

00:18:09 ◼   ► don't call it a park bench picnic table.

00:18:12 ◼   ► Went there to do a little bit of work today because it was very nice staying here in Richmond

00:18:15 ◼   ► It's just a touch chilly but not too bad and I was all slick with myself

00:18:18 ◼   ► I was all excited because I've got my fancy pants new iPad Pro

00:18:22 ◼   ► It's got 5g it can support 5g ultra wideband by Verizon, baby. I'm ready

00:18:28 ◼   ► Except I got there and my phone, you know took a few seconds when my phone shows 5g uw 5g ultra wideband

00:18:36 ◼   ► I am ready to rock on the phone

00:18:38 ◼   ► The iPad says you got 5g

00:18:41 ◼   ► So I wait a little bit still got 5g

00:18:43 ◼   ► Wait a little bit kind of diddle around on the iPad a little bit

00:18:46 ◼   ► You know do a fast.com text test just to see if that would kick it into like, you know

00:18:50 ◼   ► high gear or whatever and I look and it's

00:18:53 ◼   ► Still just 5g. Oh, no, did your phone work on it? Yeah. Oh, yeah, my phone was fine. My phone was good to go

00:19:00 ◼   ► So, okay what's going on here? Remember that this has a physical SIM

00:19:05 ◼   ► I was briefly confused by this when I did the transfer because I was waiting for it to transfer the eSIM

00:19:10 ◼   ► that wasn't an eSIM. But anyways, so I get on the Verizon chat, which while annoying,

00:19:15 ◼   ► has actually got a pretty high success rate, their online chat, for getting me an answer

00:19:21 ◼   ► and/or getting me what I want. You know, I got my cable card through the online chat.

00:19:26 ◼   ► That mostly worked. I've done a lot of stuff via the online chat, and so I get on the online

00:19:30 ◼   ► chat and I did that thing you should never do, and I kind of led with, "Do I need a new

00:19:35 ◼   ► SIM card, you know, is the SIM card which was, you know, originally in an iPad that

00:19:39 ◼   ► did not support 5G, it only supported LTE, does the SIM card perhaps not have whatever

00:19:45 ◼   ► magic bit flipped or whatever it may need in order to get 5G Ultra Wideband?

00:19:51 ◼   ► And after a considerable amount of time waiting for the person that was surely helping 35

00:19:56 ◼   ► other people, it turns out that there are multiple iPad plans in Verizon.

00:20:01 ◼   ► The one that I have is normally $20 a month,

00:20:04 ◼   ► but because of my phone's plan,

00:20:06 ◼   ► I only pay $10 a month for it, it's half off.

00:20:08 ◼   ► And that gives me 5G, and it gives me 15 gigs of data,

00:20:12 ◼   ► of quote unquote premium data,

00:20:15 ◼   ► which I guess means basically you get 15 gigs

00:20:17 ◼   ► and they start to throttle you.

00:20:18 ◼   ► But if I want ultra wide band, I need to go to $30 a month,

00:20:23 ◼   ► which I think would only be five bucks more for me,

00:20:25 ◼   ► 'cause I think all of the iPad plans are half off,

00:20:27 ◼   ► but I gotta do some research on this.

00:20:28 ◼   ► Anyway, so strictly speaking, $30 a month,

00:20:31 ◼   ► Then I can get my 5G Ultra Wideband

00:20:33 ◼   ► and I go from 15 gigs of premium data to 30 gigs.

00:20:37 ◼   ► So I gotta confirm,

00:20:39 ◼   ► 'cause this is not worth an additional $10 a month,

00:20:42 ◼   ► 'cause remember, my plan is supposed to be 20,

00:20:45 ◼   ► I pay 10 because of the way I have my phone set up.

00:20:48 ◼   ► I would pay probably $5 more a month for this

00:20:50 ◼   ► because darn it, I want my Ultra Wideband,

00:20:52 ◼   ► that's the whole point, man.

00:20:53 ◼   ► But I don't think I would pay 10 more dollars for this,

00:20:55 ◼   ► so I gotta figure out what the story is.

00:20:56 ◼   ► And yes, I know I'm frugal/cheap/whatever,

00:20:59 ◼   ► but I gotta look into that.

00:21:00 ◼   ► But I just thought in case anyone else,

00:21:02 ◼   ► yes, this is kind of another PSA,

00:21:03 ◼   ► another entry in the PSA corner,

00:21:05 ◼   ► in case anyone else was confused,

00:21:06 ◼   ► that apparently is the case for Verizon.

00:21:08 ◼   ► I cannot speak for any other carrier.

00:21:10 ◼   ► And I just, I did not expect that.

00:21:11 ◼   ► So I was disappointed,

00:21:12 ◼   ► but I was at least happy to understand it.

00:21:14 ◼   ► So there is that.

00:21:16 ◼   ► - Is this also another case where if you were to hotspot

00:21:18 ◼   ► to your phone, you'd be throttled

00:21:20 ◼   ► by the Bluetooth bandwidth maybe?

00:21:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, or whether it's using Bluetooth or wifi,

00:21:24 ◼   ► yeah, you're way throttled,

00:21:25 ◼   ► but even by wifi you'd be throttled.

00:21:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's correct.

00:21:28 ◼   ► In fact, when I first was piddling with the ultra wideband stuff, I had done it via a

00:21:33 ◼   ► physical USB connection to my computer, and it was dog-slow on the computer end.

00:21:38 ◼   ► And I'm like, "What the heck?

00:21:39 ◼   ► I've got like 2.5 gigabits per second down on the phone.

00:21:43 ◼   ► Why the--" Oh, right.

00:21:44 ◼   ► This is USB 2.0.

00:21:45 ◼   ► It's slower than dirt.

00:21:46 ◼   ► Whoopsie-doopsie.

00:21:47 ◼   ► And so I decided, "Oh, if I'm going to tether, I am not going to tether via the USB connection.

00:21:52 ◼   ► I'm not going to tether, to your point, via Bluetooth.

00:21:54 ◼   ► I will tether via Wi-Fi.

00:21:56 ◼   ► Even if I have the phone connected to the computer for power purposes, I will still

00:22:01 ◼   ► tether via Wi-Fi because that is as close as I can get to full bandwidth from UltraWideband.

00:22:07 ◼   ► So yeah, you're exactly right.

00:22:08 ◼   ► Anyway, I just thought that was fascinating.

00:22:10 ◼   ► We have a lot to talk about with regards to system settings, Jon.

00:22:13 ◼   ► Tell me about this in Ventura, please.

00:22:15 ◼   ► This was something that someone asked about a while ago that I found when I was digging

00:22:20 ◼   ► through some old stuff regarding the switch controls in system settings.

00:22:25 ◼   ► The Switch is like the ones on your iPhone.

00:22:26 ◼   ► When you go to settings on your iPhone,

00:22:27 ◼   ► there's a little on/off switch that goes horizontally,

00:22:29 ◼   ► a little circle goes horizontally

00:22:31 ◼   ► in a little channel, right?

00:22:33 ◼   ► And of course, system settings in Ventura

00:22:35 ◼   ► looks a lot like that now.

00:22:36 ◼   ► And lots of people were throwing this entry

00:22:39 ◼   ► from the Apple Human Interface guidelines

00:22:40 ◼   ► back in Apple's face when the betas were out.

00:22:43 ◼   ► I was worried, this is not the item

00:22:45 ◼   ► that was brought to my attention, but is relevant to it.

00:22:48 ◼   ► So in the Apple Hig,

00:22:49 ◼   ► at a location that we'll link in the show notes,

00:22:52 ◼   ► Apple says, "Avoid using a Switch control

00:22:54 ◼   ► for a single detail or minor setting.

00:22:56 ◼   ► A switch has more visual weight than a checkbox,

00:22:58 ◼   ► so it looks better when it controls more functionality

00:23:00 ◼   ► than a checkbox typically does.

00:23:01 ◼   ► For example, you might use a switch to let people turn on

00:23:04 ◼   ► or off a group of settings instead of just one setting.

00:23:07 ◼   ► In general, don't replace a checkbox with a switch.

00:23:10 ◼   ► If you're already using a checkbox in your interface,

00:23:12 ◼   ► it's probably best to keep using it.

00:23:13 ◼   ► That's what the Apple Human Interface guidelines say.

00:23:16 ◼   ► Arguably, Apple violates that 10 ways to Sunday,

00:23:18 ◼   ► but with the Ventura System settings,

00:23:20 ◼   ► because pretty much all those things used to be checkboxes

00:23:21 ◼   ► and they didn't leave them alone,

00:23:22 ◼   ► and pretty much all of them are controlling

00:23:25 ◼   ► a single detail or minor setting.

00:23:27 ◼   ► So there is that, right?

00:23:29 ◼   ► But that's not the biggest thing,

00:23:30 ◼   ► 'cause you can argue, oh, well, is this a minor setting?

00:23:32 ◼   ► Is it a big setting?

00:23:33 ◼   ► Is it important for it to match the iOS settings

00:23:35 ◼   ► for familiarity?

00:23:36 ◼   ► You can go all around in different directions and that,

00:23:37 ◼   ► although it is kind of weird that it is directly

00:23:40 ◼   ► in violation of what they say

00:23:41 ◼   ► in the Apple Hint-Erase guidelines.

00:23:42 ◼   ► But this is inarguable in another example of,

00:23:45 ◼   ► I don't know, just sort of not meeting the minimum standard

00:23:49 ◼   ► for a Mac user interface.

00:23:51 ◼   ► And this, kind of like complications

00:23:53 ◼   ► or possibly changing the volume on your AirPods,

00:23:55 ◼   ► it may be a thing that nobody knows about,

00:23:57 ◼   ► but I feel like if anyone should know about it,

00:23:59 ◼   ► it's the people making GUIs for the Mac who work at Apple.

00:24:03 ◼   ► I don't think that's too high of a standard.

00:24:05 ◼   ► And that is this, on the Mac, when you have a checkbox,

00:24:08 ◼   ► and also on the web, by the way, if you do it right.

00:24:10 ◼   ► But anyway, on the Mac, if you have a checkbox

00:24:12 ◼   ► and it says like, you know, turn on turbo lasers

00:24:15 ◼   ► and it's got a checkbox and the text next to the checkbox

00:24:17 ◼   ► says turn on turbo lasers, right?

00:24:19 ◼   ► Or turbo lasers on, I don't know.

00:24:20 ◼   ► I'm doing a bad job with the copy here,

00:24:22 ◼   ► but suffice to say there's a label next to the checkbox.

00:24:24 ◼   ► You can click the checkbox to make the checkbox

00:24:27 ◼   ► be on or off, but you can also click the label text.

00:24:31 ◼   ► And the reason why you might wanna do that

00:24:32 ◼   ► is the label text is way bigger than the checkbox.

00:24:35 ◼   ► Checkboxes are pretty small.

00:24:38 ◼   ► They can be hard to even see.

00:24:39 ◼   ► That's one of the arguments people make for switches.

00:24:41 ◼   ► Oh, the switches are so much bigger than checkbox.

00:24:42 ◼   ► They should use the switches

00:24:44 ◼   ► because they're just easier to hit.

00:24:45 ◼   ► It's a bigger target, and there is something too,

00:24:46 ◼   ► it being a bigger target, right?

00:24:48 ◼   ► Although the switches on Mac

00:24:49 ◼   ► are actually kind of small,

00:24:50 ◼   ► but the label is a way bigger target.

00:24:53 ◼   ► It's very wide and just as high as the checkbox,

00:24:55 ◼   ► if not higher.

00:24:55 ◼   ► That's why on the Mac, you can click the label

00:24:58 ◼   ► anywhere in the label text,

00:25:00 ◼   ► and it will activate and deactivate the checkbox.

00:25:02 ◼   ► And you can do it on the web if you know what you're doing,

00:25:04 ◼   ► and you should, and if you don't do it on the web,

00:25:05 ◼   ► you should feel bad.

00:25:06 ◼   ► All right.

00:25:07 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:25:08 ◼   ► So the question was, hey, in Ventura system settings,

00:25:11 ◼   ► when they have these big, long lists of labels and switches,

00:25:16 ◼   ► can you click the label to toggle the switch?

00:25:18 ◼   ► and the answer is, at least in the one that I tested,

00:25:20 ◼   ► no, you can't, and that is bad.

00:25:23 ◼   ► That is very bad, 'cause that is way worse than a checkbox.

00:25:26 ◼   ► And yes, I know the labels are distant from the slider,

00:25:28 ◼   ► from the little switch too,

00:25:29 ◼   ► instead of right next to it like checkboxes,

00:25:31 ◼   ► but I think it's also kind of bad.

00:25:32 ◼   ► But why can't I click the label

00:25:34 ◼   ► to activate and deactivate the slider?

00:25:36 ◼   ► That is a Mac idiom, and this is a replacement for a,

00:25:39 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know, maybe there's somewhere

00:25:40 ◼   ► in the human error state guidelines

00:25:41 ◼   ► where they say explicitly don't do this,

00:25:42 ◼   ► but that makes the targets for every one

00:25:44 ◼   ► of these little things so much smaller than they used to be.

00:25:46 ◼   ► They're bigger than checkboxes,

00:25:47 ◼   ► but they're way smaller than a checkbox and a label.

00:25:49 ◼   ► And I just don't understand that.

00:25:51 ◼   ► I don't understand how that comes to be

00:25:54 ◼   ► where they replace all the checkboxes

00:25:56 ◼   ► with this kind of control.

00:25:57 ◼   ► And then, oh, and by the way,

00:25:58 ◼   ► we forgot for this type of control

00:25:59 ◼   ► to make the label clickable.

00:26:02 ◼   ► Upsetting.

00:26:04 ◼   ► - Very upsetting.

00:26:06 ◼   ► And then apparently some things are disappearing

00:26:08 ◼   ► from the settings, system settings, system preferences,

00:26:12 ◼   ► whatever it's called.

00:26:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, we noted like the network locations was gone.

00:26:15 ◼   ► I don't know why that feature disappeared, but it did.

00:26:17 ◼   ► But there's one more feature that disappeared

00:26:19 ◼   ► and it's relevant to my interest because I use this feature.

00:26:21 ◼   ► It's a feature I've talked about in the past

00:26:23 ◼   ► that used to be an energy saver in system preferences.

00:26:26 ◼   ► There was a GUI for setting a time

00:26:28 ◼   ► when you want your computer to wake up

00:26:30 ◼   ► and setting a time when you want your computer

00:26:31 ◼   ► to go to sleep.

00:26:32 ◼   ► And I use these features to have my computer

00:26:33 ◼   ► wake up in the middle of the night when I'm sleeping,

00:26:35 ◼   ► do a bunch of backup stuff and then go to sleep.

00:26:38 ◼   ► So I put my computer to sleep when I go to bed

00:26:40 ◼   ► and then while I'm sleeping it wakes up,

00:26:41 ◼   ► does a bunch of stuff, backup stuff

00:26:43 ◼   ► and then goes back to sleep, right?

00:26:45 ◼   ► Those, the ability to do that, like timed waking up

00:26:48 ◼   ► and going to sleep, still exists in the OS.

00:26:51 ◼   ► They just either got rid of or didn't have time

00:26:54 ◼   ► to re-enactment the GUI for that, which is kind of a shame.

00:26:57 ◼   ► We'll put a link in the show notes to Apple's support

00:27:00 ◼   ► document that shows you how to do it from the command line.

00:27:02 ◼   ► So I had to go and read the man page and come up

00:27:04 ◼   ► with the command lines that are equivalent to my settings

00:27:07 ◼   ► in case I ever want to restore them.

00:27:08 ◼   ► It's an easy way to get rid of the schedule

00:27:11 ◼   ► and it's an easy way to add it back.

00:27:12 ◼   ► So it's not so bad, but no one's ever gonna find

00:27:15 ◼   ► document the GUI was much friendlier way to let people change this and since the

00:27:18 ◼   ► feature is still there I hope the GUI will come back someday. Indeed. A really

00:27:23 ◼   ► quick thing I wanted to note I should have talked about this earlier but it

00:27:26 ◼   ► completely slipped my mind. I am NOT trying to be funny. When did landscape

00:27:31 ◼   ► iPads start treating the volume up down physical volume up down switches as

00:27:37 ◼   ► backwards? Wait they do? Right thank you! What do you consider backwards when it's

00:27:43 ◼   ► left and right. Well, so here's the thing. I will, this is like natural scrolling all

00:27:48 ◼   ► over, which I believe in. I believe in natural scrolling, but last I recall, I don't think

00:27:52 ◼   ► either of you do, but I do not. And I disagree with the terminology too. It's like a death

00:27:57 ◼   ► tax. I don't, I don't accept your framing. I'm just using the Apple terminology. So the

00:28:02 ◼   ► way I'm, the way I'm used to it is that, okay, hold your iPad either mentally or physically

00:28:07 ◼   ► hold your iPad in portrait, you know, tall. So on the right hand side, for larger iPads anyway,

00:28:14 ◼   ► the volume up button is the top button, volume down button is the bottom button, right? So far,

00:28:20 ◼   ► so good. That makes sense. Take that and twist it counterclockwise. So you're taking the top and

00:28:27 ◼   ► sliding it so it's now the left. I am used to, and in every other iPad I've ever used, the left side

00:28:35 ◼   ► is volume up, the right side is volume down,

00:28:38 ◼   ► because it's the same function.

00:28:39 ◼   ► - It's the same button as it was before.

00:28:40 ◼   ► If you had kept your finger on the buttons,

00:28:42 ◼   ► it would be the same button.

00:28:42 ◼   ► - That's what mine's doing.

00:28:43 ◼   ► - So on my brand new iPad,

00:28:45 ◼   ► and I believe I read that the Mini is doing this as well,

00:28:48 ◼   ► but I could have that wrong.

00:28:49 ◼   ► On the brand new iPad,

00:28:50 ◼   ► which actually is not in the room with me,

00:28:52 ◼   ► I wish it was, but if I have a portrait twist 90 degrees

00:28:56 ◼   ► to the left, so now the top is the left,

00:28:58 ◼   ► volume up is the rightmost button,

00:29:01 ◼   ► volume down is the leftmost button.

00:29:03 ◼   ► Now if you think about it for half a second,

00:29:05 ◼   ► that actually does make more sense

00:29:07 ◼   ► because you are looking at the meter

00:29:09 ◼   ► as you're voluming up and down.

00:29:11 ◼   ► And as you increase volume, it goes to the right.

00:29:15 ◼   ► As you decrease volume--

00:29:16 ◼   ► - If you change your language to Arabic, does it change?

00:29:19 ◼   ► - (laughs) I don't know, or Hebrew or something.

00:29:21 ◼   ► - Wait, so Benzi in the chat has,

00:29:24 ◼   ► and Jitengur in the chat also have pointed out,

00:29:28 ◼   ► this is actually now a setting.

00:29:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, I looked for that and I must have missed it

00:29:32 ◼   ► because I looked for it and didn't,

00:29:34 ◼   ► oh no, you know, that's what it was.

00:29:35 ◼   ► I told myself, no, embrace it.

00:29:38 ◼   ► This is backwards.

00:29:39 ◼   ► The way you're used to doing it, Casey, is backwards.

00:29:42 ◼   ► - Just like a quote unquote natural scrolling

00:29:44 ◼   ► advocate would do. - Correct, exactly right.

00:29:46 ◼   ► Exactly right.

00:29:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, you see the error of your ways, don't you?

00:29:49 ◼   ► Now that you know the settings there,

00:29:50 ◼   ► you can restore sanity.

00:29:52 ◼   ► - No, I disagree.

00:29:53 ◼   ► I think this does make more sense.

00:29:54 ◼   ► It's just because it's not what I'm used to,

00:29:56 ◼   ► that I'm flummoxed by it.

00:29:58 ◼   ► But I do think it actually makes more sense

00:29:59 ◼   ► because again, as you're voluming up,

00:30:01 ◼   ► this slider is moving from left to right.

00:30:03 ◼   ► As you're voluming down,

00:30:04 ◼   ► it's moving from right to left.

00:30:05 ◼   ► So it does make sense,

00:30:07 ◼   ► but the fact that the buttons are software controlled,

00:30:11 ◼   ► which obviously they were the whole time,

00:30:12 ◼   ► but like you feel, or I felt at least,

00:30:15 ◼   ► as though they were hardware buttons.

00:30:17 ◼   ► Does that make sense?

00:30:17 ◼   ► You know, like this button will always

00:30:20 ◼   ► and forever be volume up.

00:30:21 ◼   ► This other button will always and forever be volume down.

00:30:25 ◼   ► And it turns out that, well, no,

00:30:27 ◼   ► they aren't quote unquote hardware buttons.

00:30:29 ◼   ► they're just giving a hint to the software to do something.

00:30:33 ◼   ► And yeah, it actually does make sense to me anyway,

00:30:35 ◼   ► to have the right one go up and the left one go down,

00:30:38 ◼   ► but it took me by such surprise.

00:30:39 ◼   ► And I forget what I was doing.

00:30:40 ◼   ► I don't think I was like in bed with Aaron

00:30:42 ◼   ► or anything like that, but it was at a time

00:30:44 ◼   ► when I was not expecting a bunch of volume

00:30:46 ◼   ► and I wanted to turn the iPad down

00:30:48 ◼   ► and I mashed down on the right hand button

00:30:52 ◼   ► because I was in landscape,

00:30:53 ◼   ► mashed down the right hand button, it just got louder

00:30:54 ◼   ► and I was like, "Oh my God, what's happening?"

00:30:56 ◼   ► And then it occurred to me, oh, this is reversed.

00:30:59 ◼   ► - Unintended volume acceleration?

00:31:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly right.

00:31:02 ◼   ► Hashtag Toyota, am I right?

00:31:03 ◼   ► But anyway, so yeah.

00:31:04 ◼   ► - Howdy, come on, get the fake story right.

00:31:06 ◼   ► - Oh, sorry, my mistake.

00:31:07 ◼   ► Are you sure it wasn't Toyota?

00:31:08 ◼   ► - I guess, was it later Toyota?

00:31:10 ◼   ► The Audi one wasn't real, I think, but I don't remember.

00:31:13 ◼   ► - I thought it was Toyota. - I think either of them

00:31:14 ◼   ► were super real.

00:31:16 ◼   ► The big story was about Toyota,

00:31:19 ◼   ► but I think it was a little not super solid of a story.

00:31:23 ◼   ► - Well, anyway, for the volume button thing,

00:31:25 ◼   ► I guess we have to wait for Apple to come out

00:31:27 ◼   ► with the brand new landscape volume buttons to match their landscape camera, which is

00:31:31 ◼   ► what they call it when they move the camera to the other side.

00:31:33 ◼   ► Well, if they move the volume buttons to the other side of the iPad, I guess, like the

00:31:38 ◼   ► short side, then it'll be up and well, it'll be up on landscape.

00:31:42 ◼   ► It'll basically give the landscape one a top.

00:31:43 ◼   ► I guess it already has a top because once you put the camera on the landscape edge,

00:31:46 ◼   ► that's the top in landscape.

00:31:47 ◼   ► So then they can put the volume button somewhere and then I guess, you know, they would be

00:31:51 ◼   ► on the left side and then up would be volume up and down and be volume down.

00:31:54 ◼   ► - And then you can debate how they should work

00:31:56 ◼   ► when it's in portrait.

00:31:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:31:58 ◼   ► Anyway, this took me by surprise.

00:31:59 ◼   ► Obviously--

00:32:00 ◼   ► - Apparently that's how the mini works, too.

00:32:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's correct.

00:32:03 ◼   ► - 'Cause they had to have room for the pencil.

00:32:04 ◼   ► That's right, the pencil's along the edge.

00:32:06 ◼   ► - Right, again, I don't have a mini, so I can't verify,

00:32:08 ◼   ► but I believe that's correct.

00:32:09 ◼   ► Anyway, I just thought that was very, very confusing

00:32:11 ◼   ► and surprising, and I don't remember that

00:32:12 ◼   ► having been mentioned anywhere, perhaps it was.

00:32:15 ◼   ► - It was probably mentioned in the keynote,

00:32:15 ◼   ► but it was a long time ago.

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00:34:05 ◼   ► - Hey, would you tell me about the great news

00:34:12 ◼   ► coming out of The Verge, among other places,

00:34:14 ◼   ► with regard to the new Apple TV 4K,

00:34:15 ◼   ► which arrives Friday, if I'm not mistaken.

00:34:17 ◼   ► Isn't that right?

00:34:18 ◼   ► - I think so, yeah, it's okay news.

00:34:20 ◼   ► We talked about, I should have had the expansion

00:34:24 ◼   ► of the abbreviation in the notes here

00:34:26 ◼   ► with a quick media sync, I believe it was, QMS, HDMI QMS.

00:34:29 ◼   ► It was part of the HDMI 2.1 standard

00:34:31 ◼   ► that lets the television change frame rates

00:34:34 ◼   ► without blacking out the screen,

00:34:36 ◼   ► like leveraging the VRR, the variable refresh rate feature

00:34:40 ◼   ► that already is an HDMI, the main television support,

00:34:42 ◼   ► QMS is the thing on top of that

00:34:43 ◼   ► that would try to avoid some of those black screens.

00:34:46 ◼   ► I talked about the limitations of it last week

00:34:47 ◼   ► that one limitation is that everything except for the frame rate has to stay the same and

00:34:51 ◼   ► I wasn't sure if that included HDR versus SDR, so you still might be getting black screens

00:34:55 ◼   ► when you go from your Apple TV menu screen to a video program if the HDRness doesn't

00:35:01 ◼   ► match but we'll see.

00:35:02 ◼   ► But the real main limitation is both devices have to support HDMI QMS.

00:35:09 ◼   ► And so the news is that Apple says that, and I don't know, this was in the Verge article

00:35:14 ◼   ► and a bunch of other articles, Apple must have just told people reviewing the Apple

00:35:16 ◼   ► TV this information, but Apple basically says that the Apple TV 4K will be getting QMS in

00:35:23 ◼   ► a future software update.

00:35:25 ◼   ► No timelines or whatever, but it's coming, right?

00:35:27 ◼   ► But as the Verge article says, "How many TVs work with QMS VRR, you asked?

00:35:32 ◼   ► Well, zero at the moment, but you'll start seeing them hit the market next year."

00:35:36 ◼   ► I really hope they'll be able to do firmware updates because if you already support VRR,

00:35:39 ◼   ► which most fancy modern TVs do, supporting QMS VRR seems like it's within the realm

00:35:46 ◼   ► of possibility for a firmware update, but you never know with TV makers. Sometimes they

00:35:50 ◼   ► just never update old TVs to be able to do something that a new TV does. So my fingers

00:35:54 ◼   ► are crossed for my television, which doesn't currently support QMS, that someday in the

00:36:00 ◼   ► future it will support QMS. And also someday in the future the Apple TV 4K that's coming

00:36:04 ◼   ► to my house will eventually support QMS.

00:36:06 ◼   ► Yeah, so I was looking at this briefly and I believe that VRR and QMS are part of HDMI

00:36:13 ◼   ► 2.1, I think?

00:36:16 ◼   ► but they're optional like every part of HDMI 2.1.

00:36:18 ◼   ► - So I guess the question is, you know,

00:36:20 ◼   ► what version of HDMI do all of our televisions support?

00:36:23 ◼   ► - It's not the version, the standard is so crappy.

00:36:26 ◼   ► You can be compliant with HDMI 2.1

00:36:28 ◼   ► if you only support HDMI 2.0 features.

00:36:30 ◼   ► It's a ridiculous standard.

00:36:31 ◼   ► Like it just, it lets people put the label on.

00:36:33 ◼   ► You have to, that's why you go to these review sites

00:36:35 ◼   ► and they have a giant grid of like,

00:36:36 ◼   ► what features does it actually support?

00:36:38 ◼   ► ALM, VRR, you know, it's all these acronyms,

00:36:40 ◼   ► soup or whatever.

00:36:41 ◼   ► But HDMI 2.1 tells you almost nothing.

00:36:44 ◼   ► All it tells you is that it's plausible

00:36:46 ◼   ► that it might support these things.

00:36:47 ◼   ► Whereas if you see HDMI 2.0, you know it absolutely doesn't.

00:36:50 ◼   ► But you have to look at the individual specs

00:36:53 ◼   ► to know which alphabet soup thing

00:36:55 ◼   ► that you're actually interested in.

00:36:56 ◼   ► It's stupid.

00:36:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, we'll see what happens.

00:37:00 ◼   ► Talk to me about iCloud shared photo library,

00:37:03 ◼   ► which by the way, due to breaking news,

00:37:05 ◼   ► I finally got the chance to have Erin update her phone

00:37:09 ◼   ► to 16.1 just like an hour and a half ago.

00:37:12 ◼   ► And so as we are recording, I am moving 47,733 items

00:37:16 ◼   ► to the shared photo library,

00:37:17 ◼   ► which based my network bandwidth seems like

00:37:19 ◼   ► is actually like a thing.

00:37:22 ◼   ► Like it is, it almost appears as though things are,

00:37:25 ◼   ► these photos are moving back and forth.

00:37:26 ◼   ► You would think that it would just be like,

00:37:28 ◼   ► oh, take all these on the server side

00:37:30 ◼   ► and glob them into the new shared photo library.

00:37:32 ◼   ► But it does not appear to me that that's what's happening.

00:37:33 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:37:34 ◼   ► - I don't think it's moving your data at all.

00:37:35 ◼   ► Like I said last week,

00:37:36 ◼   ► I think it is purely a metadata based operation.

00:37:38 ◼   ► And I think when you did the move of 40,000 or whatever,

00:37:42 ◼   ► You should have seen within a few seconds all 40,000 disappear.

00:37:45 ◼   ► If you were on the personal library view,

00:37:47 ◼   ► they should have all disappeared from the personal library

00:37:49 ◼   ► view in your local thing.

00:37:50 ◼   ► And then there's the countdown.

00:37:51 ◼   ► Again, scroll down to the bottom for the progress.

00:37:54 ◼   ► But I think it's just a purely metadata move.

00:37:55 ◼   ► I don't think it's moving any of the data at all.

00:37:57 ◼   ► But I don't know.

00:37:57 ◼   ► Someone who works on Apple Photos can come and tell us.

00:38:00 ◼   ► Do you think anybody who works on Apple Photos would actually

00:38:03 ◼   ► be on speaking terms with us?

00:38:04 ◼   ► That is a plausible thing that could happen.

00:38:07 ◼   ► Unrelated to that, here's some news about photo-shared library.

00:38:11 ◼   ► Mikhail Gok told us that in the camera settings on iOS,

00:38:16 ◼   ► there's a toggle to send photos you take

00:38:19 ◼   ► directly to the shared library.

00:38:20 ◼   ► I'd asked about that last week.

00:38:21 ◼   ► What if I just want everything I take,

00:38:22 ◼   ► every photo I take with my phone

00:38:23 ◼   ► to go right into the shared library?

00:38:24 ◼   ► I don't want it to suggest to me

00:38:25 ◼   ► when it thinks they should go there.

00:38:27 ◼   ► I don't want to move them manually.

00:38:29 ◼   ► There is an option for that.

00:38:30 ◼   ► I think during the onboarding process on the phone,

00:38:32 ◼   ► it asks you that and says, "Hey, do you want me to do this?"

00:38:34 ◼   ► But I onboarded on the Mac, and so that's not my phone.

00:38:37 ◼   ► And so either I missed that option

00:38:39 ◼   ► or it didn't even ask or whatever.

00:38:40 ◼   ► But if you want every single photo you take on your phone

00:38:44 ◼   ► to go directly into the shared library, you can turn that on.

00:38:46 ◼   ► It's in the camera settings on your iPhone.

00:38:49 ◼   ► As for my unsaved photos warning,

00:38:51 ◼   ► I'm not sure if Casey saw that when he was trying

00:38:52 ◼   ► to move his 40,000 photos, but if you select a bunch

00:38:54 ◼   ► of photos and try to move them to the shared library,

00:38:56 ◼   ► you might see something that says,

00:38:57 ◼   ► "Hey, you've got unsaved photos.

00:38:59 ◼   ► "Do you wanna save them?"

00:39:00 ◼   ► And I wondered what the heck that was about.

00:39:02 ◼   ► Lots of people gave me the answer

00:39:03 ◼   ► that those are the shared with you photos.

00:39:05 ◼   ► If you have that feature on, when someone sends you a photo

00:39:09 ◼   ► in messages, like an iMessage.

00:39:11 ◼   ► There's a feature that will surface that photo

00:39:14 ◼   ► in your photos application, and it'll say like,

00:39:16 ◼   ► oh, this was from Casey when you were having a message thread,

00:39:19 ◼   ► and it shows his name and a little message icon

00:39:21 ◼   ► or something or whatever.

00:39:23 ◼   ► Those are the ones that haven't saved.

00:39:24 ◼   ► And what it means by saved is we're showing you this photo

00:39:27 ◼   ► because it's in one of your message threads.

00:39:29 ◼   ► We're showing it to you in the photo grid view

00:39:31 ◼   ► or in the Mac version of Photos app,

00:39:33 ◼   ► but you haven't actually saved this photo

00:39:34 ◼   ► to your photo library.

00:39:37 ◼   ► And by saved, because I did select all

00:39:38 ◼   ► or select a whole bunch,

00:39:40 ◼   ► some of the things I selected were shared with you photos.

00:39:43 ◼   ► So you have two choices.

00:39:44 ◼   ► You could either save them,

00:39:45 ◼   ► which means basically copy them out of the message thread

00:39:48 ◼   ► and put them into your photo library

00:39:49 ◼   ► where they will live forever.

00:39:50 ◼   ► Or you can go to the, on the Mac anyway,

00:39:52 ◼   ► I think on the iOS one too,

00:39:53 ◼   ► there's like a filters menu option in the upper right.

00:39:57 ◼   ► You can tell it to filter out,

00:39:58 ◼   ► like don't show me the shared with you photos.

00:40:01 ◼   ► And then it just won't show them.

00:40:02 ◼   ► And then when you select huge swaths

00:40:03 ◼   ► and you don't have to worry about that.

00:40:04 ◼   ► So that's that feature, that's that mystery solved.

00:40:08 ◼   ► D duping.

00:40:09 ◼   ► So D duping is still definitely a frustrating situation.

00:40:13 ◼   ► And I'm not even, you know,

00:40:14 ◼   ► I'm not even talking about D duping

00:40:17 ◼   ► like with two people's accounts.

00:40:18 ◼   ► Like I said, last week, my wife and my account

00:40:20 ◼   ► on the same Mac, I'm talking about D duping

00:40:21 ◼   ► where two people contribute the same photo

00:40:23 ◼   ► to the shared library,

00:40:24 ◼   ► or there's a photo in the shared library

00:40:25 ◼   ► and also in a personal library.

00:40:27 ◼   ► And it's a tricky situation.

00:40:28 ◼   ► So just to give an example, an example that I tested,

00:40:32 ◼   ► if I and my wife both contribute the exact same photo

00:40:35 ◼   ► to the shared photo library,

00:40:36 ◼   ► which might happen if we both got like air dropped

00:40:38 ◼   ► the photo from someone else.

00:40:39 ◼   ► It's literally the same photo down to the bite,

00:40:41 ◼   ► no differences whatsoever.

00:40:43 ◼   ► There'll be two copies in there.

00:40:45 ◼   ► And deduping is a little bit tricky

00:40:47 ◼   ► because if we dedupe that,

00:40:49 ◼   ► I mean, to do it right, what you would have to do

00:40:51 ◼   ► is keep track of the fact that two different people

00:40:55 ◼   ► contribute this photo, because,

00:40:57 ◼   ► and I'm noticing this when I'm hopping back and forth

00:40:58 ◼   ► between accounts, if you're in the shared library,

00:41:01 ◼   ► you can take one of the photos and say,

00:41:02 ◼   ► move this back to my library.

00:41:04 ◼   ► But if you're not the one who contributed

00:41:06 ◼   ► to the share library, you can't,

00:41:07 ◼   ► it doesn't say move it back,

00:41:08 ◼   ► 'cause you didn't contribute it.

00:41:09 ◼   ► So if two people contributed,

00:41:11 ◼   ► the system has to remember,

00:41:12 ◼   ► hey, both people contributed to this.

00:41:14 ◼   ► And so if you move it back,

00:41:16 ◼   ► A, it has to understand that you're allowed to move it back

00:41:18 ◼   ► because you were one of the two contributors,

00:41:20 ◼   ► or one of the three contributors,

00:41:21 ◼   ► or one of the four people who contributed, or whatever,

00:41:23 ◼   ► it has to understand that you're allowed to do that.

00:41:24 ◼   ► And B, it should probably leave it there

00:41:28 ◼   ► for other people to get back,

00:41:29 ◼   ► because they contributed it, but they didn't pull it back.

00:41:31 ◼   ► So you can pull your copy back.

00:41:35 ◼   ► it's got a lot of weird edge cases.

00:41:36 ◼   ► It's not as simple as just, oh, just delete one of them.

00:41:38 ◼   ► Because if you do that,

00:41:39 ◼   ► then you're left with like the one contributed by one person

00:41:41 ◼   ► but now the other person can't pull it back

00:41:43 ◼   ► even though they think they contributed it.

00:41:44 ◼   ► So it is complicated and confusing,

00:41:47 ◼   ► but I do hope it's on the list.

00:41:48 ◼   ► I don't think I put it in a feedback for that,

00:41:50 ◼   ► but I probably will at some point.

00:41:51 ◼   ► But I hope this is already on the roadmap somewhere

00:41:52 ◼   ► because it would be a useful feature.

00:41:55 ◼   ► It's surprisingly easy to get dupes.

00:41:57 ◼   ► And the reason it's surprisingly easy to get dupes,

00:41:58 ◼   ► at least for me, is we've had just like

00:42:00 ◼   ► years and years, decades, at least a single decade,

00:42:03 ◼   ► a long time where we've had separate libraries.

00:42:06 ◼   ► And inevitably there are photos that end up

00:42:08 ◼   ► in both of the libraries

00:42:09 ◼   ► because even when one is the real library,

00:42:11 ◼   ► sometimes I wanna have like the good pictures on my phone

00:42:14 ◼   ► so I can make wallpapers, so I can post them to Instagram.

00:42:17 ◼   ► And there are just so many photos that are both on my phone

00:42:20 ◼   ► and also in the quote unquote real library.

00:42:22 ◼   ► And trying to manually sort that out is fraught.

00:42:26 ◼   ► I'd rather just dump everything into the shadow of the library

00:42:29 ◼   ► and say, "No, dee doop," and have it handle that,

00:42:31 ◼   ► but it doesn't do that yet.

00:42:33 ◼   ► and it doesn't have a way for you to ask it to do,

00:42:34 ◼   ► but just does it on its own sweet time, which is not great.

00:42:37 ◼   ► And finally, people and faces.

00:42:39 ◼   ► So here's how, as far as I can tell,

00:42:41 ◼   ► the people and faces stuff.

00:42:43 ◼   ► The people and like the names of the people

00:42:46 ◼   ► and all the face data doesn't seem like

00:42:48 ◼   ► it goes with the photo.

00:42:51 ◼   ► So if I contribute a photo and I have all the faces named,

00:42:54 ◼   ► you know, and like identified all the people in them,

00:42:56 ◼   ► that stays, like I don't lose that

00:42:58 ◼   ► by pushing into the shared library.

00:42:59 ◼   ► It's exactly there because I'm contributing the photo.

00:43:01 ◼   ► But other people who see that photo,

00:43:03 ◼   ► they have to then run face recognition

00:43:05 ◼   ► according to their face database,

00:43:07 ◼   ► and they have, you know,

00:43:08 ◼   ► assigning their names or whatever.

00:43:09 ◼   ► And so in theory, if you want to be weird or funny,

00:43:12 ◼   ► you could have totally different names

00:43:13 ◼   ► and totally different face assignments for multiple people

00:43:16 ◼   ► looking in the same photo in the shared library.

00:43:18 ◼   ► But the face data and the name data is not shared.

00:43:21 ◼   ► It is private to each contributor.

00:43:24 ◼   ► There's a privacy angle to that,

00:43:25 ◼   ► or you might not want to know that, you know,

00:43:28 ◼   ► Uncle Bill is named Poopyface

00:43:29 ◼   ► in your library or something.

00:43:32 ◼   ► But for families, it would actually be kind of convenient

00:43:36 ◼   ► if the people data could be shared.

00:43:38 ◼   ► Kind of like the keywords are shared,

00:43:39 ◼   ► 'cause that's another privacy thing.

00:43:41 ◼   ► Like I said a couple weeks ago,

00:43:44 ◼   ► when you assign a keyword to a photo and you share it,

00:43:46 ◼   ► other people see that keyword.

00:43:48 ◼   ► So I hope your keywords aren't like, you know,

00:43:50 ◼   ► something you don't want other people to see.

00:43:51 ◼   ► It's just text, you know, it's not a big deal

00:43:53 ◼   ► in terms of the sharing,

00:43:54 ◼   ► but it saves a lot of time and energy

00:43:56 ◼   ► 'cause I want the keywords to be shared rather,

00:43:59 ◼   ► so that I can take advantage of the years

00:44:01 ◼   ► I have spent keyword tagging photos.

00:44:03 ◼   ► - You know, as you were talking

00:44:05 ◼   ► and I was looking at the show notes

00:44:06 ◼   ► and I noticed that I, or I realized

00:44:09 ◼   ► I hadn't looked at the shared library settings

00:44:11 ◼   ► within camera, within settings on my phone.

00:44:14 ◼   ► And it's worth noting there's some clever stuff here.

00:44:16 ◼   ► So, you know, there's a kind of global,

00:44:19 ◼   ► do you wanna share photos directly from your camera?

00:44:21 ◼   ► Yes, no.

00:44:22 ◼   ► Then below that, you have two choices,

00:44:23 ◼   ► share automatically or share manually.

00:44:25 ◼   ► And if I understand this right, basically,

00:44:28 ◼   ► If your phone, or my phone in my case,

00:44:30 ◼   ► sees Aaron's phone nearby, it will automatically,

00:44:33 ◼   ► if I so choose, share photos that I take

00:44:37 ◼   ► while we're near each other to the shared library.

00:44:40 ◼   ► And then additionally,

00:44:41 ◼   ► which I think they had talked about on a keynote somewhere,

00:44:43 ◼   ► but additionally, there's share when at home, yes, no.

00:44:47 ◼   ► And so whenever I'm at home,

00:44:48 ◼   ► irrespective of whether Aaron is physically near me

00:44:50 ◼   ► at the time or not,

00:44:51 ◼   ► it can optionally share directly

00:44:53 ◼   ► to the shared photo library, which I think is very slick.

00:44:55 ◼   ► And we'll see whether or not any of this actually works,

00:44:57 ◼   ► but I'm very impressed that these options are available.

00:45:01 ◼   ► It seems reasonably well thought out.

00:45:03 ◼   ► The one thing that I do think I screwed up though,

00:45:05 ◼   ► is I wanted to capture photos of the four of us

00:45:10 ◼   ► and basically anything since Aaron and I met.

00:45:12 ◼   ► And I think what I accidentally did was an and not an or.

00:45:16 ◼   ► Like it seemed to me like I was doing an or operation.

00:45:19 ◼   ► Like take anything that is, you know, from before

00:45:23 ◼   ► or from the time we met and after, and, or,

00:45:26 ◼   ► I have to choose my words carefully here.

00:45:27 ◼   ► - Did you mean like during the onboarding

00:45:29 ◼   ► when you were at the-- - Correct, sorry, yes.

00:45:30 ◼   ► - prompted you to say like,

00:45:30 ◼   ► hey, what photos do you want me to send over?

00:45:32 ◼   ► Yeah, I didn't understand - Exactly right.

00:45:33 ◼   ► - any of those options, which is why I said,

00:45:35 ◼   ► I'll do this myself later, whatever that option was.

00:45:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, see, that's why I should've learned from your,

00:45:40 ◼   ► I was gonna say mistakes, but not mistakes.

00:45:42 ◼   ► I should've learned from you.

00:45:43 ◼   ► And so I think, what I did was I said,

00:45:45 ◼   ► start from whenever we met and take the four of us.

00:45:48 ◼   ► And it appears to me that what it heard when I said that

00:45:52 ◼   ► is take pictures of the four of us

00:45:54 ◼   ► rather than just glob everything from 2005 onward,

00:45:59 ◼   ► it's actually just, I think it's just taking photos

00:46:03 ◼   ► that it recognizes as either me, Aaron, Declan, or Michaela,

00:46:06 ◼   ► which I'm gonna have to go back and add a whole bunch more,

00:46:08 ◼   ► but what are you gonna do?

00:46:09 ◼   ► Also, I mean, it's still churning, so maybe I'm wrong.

00:46:11 ◼   ► Maybe I'm basing this off of what's in progress,

00:46:14 ◼   ► and once it all settles down, maybe it'll be what I expect.

00:46:17 ◼   ► - You're just reminding me of how much the search

00:46:19 ◼   ► in photos annoys me either because I can't figure it out,

00:46:21 ◼   ► in which case someone, again, from the Apple Photos team,

00:46:23 ◼   ► please tell me how to do this because I want to do it,

00:46:25 ◼   ► but like, photos has had for many years now

00:46:28 ◼   ► a search box in the upper right,

00:46:29 ◼   ► and you can type stuff in there like you can on your phone,

00:46:31 ◼   ► like you can type the word dog

00:46:32 ◼   ► and it will find all the pictures of dogs, right?

00:46:34 ◼   ► That, and it has, it understands a whole bunch of things.

00:46:37 ◼   ► It's very useful, and now it also does text,

00:46:39 ◼   ► so if you take a picture of a street sign,

00:46:40 ◼   ► it'll do OCR on the text, so you can type that text, right?

00:46:42 ◼   ► Powerful search field up there, right?

00:46:44 ◼   ► Also, there is a thing called smart folders

00:46:46 ◼   ► that are in the sidebar, and smart folders

00:46:49 ◼   ► have never heard of that search field in the upper right,

00:46:51 ◼   ► because everything that search field can do,

00:46:53 ◼   ► Smart folders are like, I have no idea what that is,

00:46:54 ◼   ► don't even talk to me about it.

00:46:55 ◼   ► So if I wanted to do something like,

00:46:57 ◼   ► show me photos with these people,

00:46:59 ◼   ► show me photos of a dog that were taken

00:47:01 ◼   ► between these years, the smart folder is like,

00:47:02 ◼   ► ha ha ha, I don't know what a photo of a dog is,

00:47:04 ◼   ► what are you even talking about?

00:47:05 ◼   ► Unless you keyword tagged it with dog,

00:47:07 ◼   ► I have no idea about that AI thing.

00:47:08 ◼   ► You can't even, and it doesn't know

00:47:09 ◼   ► about face recognition either.

00:47:10 ◼   ► Smart folders are like, show me photos of these five people,

00:47:13 ◼   ► but also that, like it's just, it's so,

00:47:16 ◼   ► they're so divorced from each other

00:47:18 ◼   ► based on like the year and team that they were created,

00:47:20 ◼   ► and I'm like, look, if you can do these searches,

00:47:21 ◼   ► the smart folders should support everything

00:47:23 ◼   ► the search field can support and vice versa,

00:47:24 ◼   ► but they don't.

00:47:25 ◼   ► There's so many smart folders that I wanted to create

00:47:29 ◼   ► to help me deal with the migration and stuff

00:47:31 ◼   ► that just aren't possible to do.

00:47:32 ◼   ► Or maybe they are, please tell me I'm wrong

00:47:34 ◼   ► and let me know how to do this.

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00:49:35 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:49:38 ◼   ► - So we had some news that happened this week

00:49:42 ◼   ► and it's one of those times when like the entire internet

00:49:46 ◼   ► points to you and says, did you see this?

00:49:48 ◼   ► Did you see this?

00:49:49 ◼   ► Like there was a,

00:49:50 ◼   ► I probably won't be able to find it for the show notes,

00:49:52 ◼   ► but there was like a satirical thing

00:49:53 ◼   ► where an FFmpeg fan talks about FFmpeg.

00:49:56 ◼   ► It was not directly about me as far as I'm aware,

00:49:58 ◼   ► but like the entire internet sent it to me.

00:50:01 ◼   ► If I remember it, and if I can dig it up,

00:50:03 ◼   ► I'll put it in the show notes.

00:50:04 ◼   ► But in this case, I was not the star.

00:50:06 ◼   ► It was John.

00:50:07 ◼   ► And you were the star because coming out of,

00:50:11 ◼   ► apparently out of the woodwork is rewind.ai.

00:50:14 ◼   ► And rewind.ai is by another name, a life stream.

00:50:19 ◼   ► And this is something I've heard you talk about for years.

00:50:22 ◼   ► So John, remind me what a life stream is and tell me what's going on.

00:50:27 ◼   ► Not to be confused with life day. Um, yeah, I had to dig up where I talked about this.

00:50:31 ◼   ► Most recently back in November of 2021,

00:50:34 ◼   ► I talked about it with Merlin on rectifs, uh, reconcilable differences.

00:50:37 ◼   ► I keep abbreviating. People don't know what that is. Another podcast I do.

00:50:39 ◼   ► I'll put a link in the show notes. If you, uh,

00:50:41 ◼   ► a timestamp length to 53 minutes and 22 seconds

00:50:44 ◼   ► if you want to hear my most recent conversation about it.

00:50:46 ◼   ► But way before that, back in May of 2014,

00:50:49 ◼   ► I talked about it on this very show, on ATP episode 66,

00:50:52 ◼   ► at 1 hour and 52 seconds into the show.

00:50:55 ◼   ► And it's not a thing that I made up.

00:50:57 ◼   ► As I said in both of the times I talked about it,

00:50:58 ◼   ► it's a thing I saw on TV when I was a kid,

00:51:00 ◼   ► possibly a teenager, but in my advanced age,

00:51:03 ◼   ► it seems like when I was a kid.

00:51:04 ◼   ► And it was like some research thing

00:51:06 ◼   ► that some academic had done and written papers about

00:51:09 ◼   ► or whatever.

00:51:10 ◼   ► I was digging some more stuff about this.

00:51:11 ◼   ► Someone wrote a paper about implementing this

00:51:13 ◼   ► on the Newton PDA back in the day.

00:51:15 ◼   ► I don't know who's ever implemented.

00:51:16 ◼   ► A lot of the papers had broken links.

00:51:18 ◼   ► But anyway, as I think I described

00:51:20 ◼   ► in both times I talked about this,

00:51:21 ◼   ► it was back early enough where people were still thinking

00:51:24 ◼   ► about new ways to look at data on computers.

00:51:27 ◼   ► We're all kind of familiar with the files and folder metaphor

00:51:30 ◼   ► of sort of arranging things in a hierarchy

00:51:33 ◼   ► and the desktop metaphor and like, you know,

00:51:35 ◼   ► filing things like that.

00:51:36 ◼   ► We're also kind of aware these days of the search paradigm,

00:51:40 ◼   ► where things, you know, files and objects have attributes,

00:51:44 ◼   ► and you can search based on those attributes,

00:51:45 ◼   ► unless they're Apple photos, in which case,

00:51:47 ◼   ► you can only search on some of them in the sidebar.

00:51:48 ◼   ► But anyway, that's a different way to view your text,

00:51:51 ◼   ► view your content, you could use search,

00:51:52 ◼   ► and then the search doesn't care where the thing is located,

00:51:55 ◼   ► it just cares that they're all pictures of dogs or whatever.

00:51:58 ◼   ► And another way you can think about slicing and dicing data

00:52:01 ◼   ► is purely based on time.

00:52:03 ◼   ► We don't care if it has a picture of a dog in it,

00:52:05 ◼   ► we don't care where it is in the file system,

00:52:07 ◼   ► all we care is when something happened to it.

00:52:09 ◼   ► And so you can imagine every single thing

00:52:12 ◼   ► that you interact with on a computer

00:52:14 ◼   ► being a time-ordered sequence.

00:52:17 ◼   ► I looked at this thing, I clicked this thing,

00:52:19 ◼   ► I made this thing, I wrote this text, I did this,

00:52:21 ◼   ► and it's just a long stream of things.

00:52:23 ◼   ► You can visualize, I think they even visualize it

00:52:25 ◼   ► on the thing I was watching on PBS

00:52:26 ◼   ► is just like a, you know, kind of like a rollercoaster ride

00:52:29 ◼   ► where you're flying through a whole bunch of things

00:52:30 ◼   ► and the past is way out there

00:52:32 ◼   ► and the future is in the other direction.

00:52:33 ◼   ► And they called it life streams or life streaming.

00:52:36 ◼   ► And it was bigger than that.

00:52:37 ◼   ► It was like, what if I wear a camera on my head

00:52:39 ◼   ► and record myself 24 hours a day or whatever,

00:52:40 ◼   ► but just in the realm of computers,

00:52:42 ◼   ► imagine if you could see everything

00:52:46 ◼   ► that you've interacted with on the computer

00:52:48 ◼   ► ordered by time.

00:52:49 ◼   ► And the reason I brought that up probably on both podcasts

00:52:52 ◼   ► is because I always find it frustrating

00:52:54 ◼   ► when I know I saw something somewhere the other day,

00:52:58 ◼   ► but I can't remember where it was.

00:53:00 ◼   ► Was it a tweet?

00:53:01 ◼   ► Was it an email somebody sent me?

00:53:03 ◼   ► Did someone send me a message?

00:53:05 ◼   ► Was it in Slack?

00:53:07 ◼   ► Was it a phone call?

00:53:08 ◼   ► Was it an in-person meeting?

00:53:09 ◼   ► I know this doesn't help with that,

00:53:10 ◼   ► but that is a thing that, again,

00:53:12 ◼   ► at my advanced stage, very often,

00:53:14 ◼   ► the lines blur between things that happen on the computer

00:53:16 ◼   ► and things that happen in real life.

00:53:18 ◼   ► And I hate it when I can't, I hate that feeling

00:53:21 ◼   ► where it's like, I know I saw this, I just saw it,

00:53:23 ◼   ► and like, I go through my history and my browsers

00:53:25 ◼   ► and I'm searching the file system

00:53:27 ◼   ► and I'm trying to search Slack

00:53:28 ◼   ► and hoping that like the free Slack, you know,

00:53:30 ◼   ► hasn't scrolled off the end

00:53:31 ◼   ► 'cause it doesn't keep everything, you know,

00:53:32 ◼   ► it's just, I hate when I can't find it.

00:53:34 ◼   ► And I always think, if I had live streams,

00:53:36 ◼   ► this wouldn't be a problem

00:53:37 ◼   ► because the whole point of livestreams is just,

00:53:39 ◼   ► it notes everything you do and orders it by time.

00:53:41 ◼   ► And if I can remember it happened sometime yesterday,

00:53:44 ◼   ► then I can find it

00:53:45 ◼   ► because that's the only thing I care about.

00:53:46 ◼   ► I don't care about, did it happen in Slack?

00:53:48 ◼   ► Did it happen in messages?

00:53:49 ◼   ► Was it an email?

00:53:50 ◼   ► I don't care about that.

00:53:51 ◼   ► And I certainly don't care about

00:53:53 ◼   ► where it is in the file system,

00:53:54 ◼   ► where the file was saved, if it is a file or whatever.

00:53:56 ◼   ► I just wanna find the data.

00:53:58 ◼   ► So this startup at rewind.ai

00:54:01 ◼   ► has basically implemented livestreams.

00:54:05 ◼   ► When I talked about it on Erectifs back in November 2021,

00:54:08 ◼   ► I talked about the pitfalls

00:54:11 ◼   ► of potentially implementing this.

00:54:13 ◼   ► And so Rewind.ai has implemented it,

00:54:15 ◼   ► so now we have a concrete implementation to look at.

00:54:17 ◼   ► And what it does is you run it on your Mac,

00:54:19 ◼   ► it's a Mac application,

00:54:20 ◼   ► so cool for people making innovative new Mac applications,

00:54:24 ◼   ► and it tries to implement live streams.

00:54:26 ◼   ► And so if you're like,

00:54:27 ◼   ► what was that thing that I see,

00:54:29 ◼   ► it was something about the TPS report,

00:54:31 ◼   ► I think they used TPS report in their demo video.

00:54:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, they did. - TPS reports,

00:54:34 ◼   ► yesterday where was that?

00:54:36 ◼   ► And you don't remember and it will find it

00:54:37 ◼   ► in the example they give is like,

00:54:39 ◼   ► what if it was just something that was on somebody else's

00:54:41 ◼   ► screen in a Zoom call, right?

00:54:43 ◼   ► They did screen sharing on a Zoom call

00:54:44 ◼   ► and that's where it was.

00:54:45 ◼   ► You're never gonna find that

00:54:46 ◼   ► 'cause it's not even on your desk.

00:54:47 ◼   ► It's not in your browser history.

00:54:49 ◼   ► There's no history in Zoom where you could find

00:54:51 ◼   ► text that was on a document that was being shared over Zoom

00:54:55 ◼   ► for someone who's doing screen sharing, right?

00:54:57 ◼   ► But rewind.ai will find it.

00:54:59 ◼   ► And how does it do this you may ask?

00:55:01 ◼   ► Exactly the way you're thinking.

00:55:03 ◼   ► It records everything that happens on your screen,

00:55:06 ◼   ► and that's where people start to get scared.

00:55:08 ◼   ► But honestly, that's the only way to do it

00:55:10 ◼   ► with current technology is,

00:55:12 ◼   ► what if we just record everything that happens

00:55:14 ◼   ► on your screen, every single window, OCR, all of it,

00:55:17 ◼   ► do text to speech from any audio that happens,

00:55:20 ◼   ► and just record it all?

00:55:21 ◼   ► Because that's the only way we're gonna find anything.

00:55:23 ◼   ► So it doesn't really care what it is,

00:55:24 ◼   ► it doesn't need to integrate with your browser,

00:55:26 ◼   ► it doesn't need to do any of that stuff.

00:55:27 ◼   ► It's just basically gonna record everything.

00:55:29 ◼   ► And if you are technically minded,

00:55:31 ◼   ► you're thinking many things.

00:55:32 ◼   ► You're thinking about the privacy implications

00:55:34 ◼   ► and you're thinking about the technical implications.

00:55:35 ◼   ► But if we're going to get into all that

00:55:36 ◼   ► and there's a lot to get into, I just want--

00:55:37 ◼   ► - I think about the legal implications.

00:55:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:55:40 ◼   ► - Like two-party consent for recording.

00:55:42 ◼   ► - I just want to say that, as always

00:55:44 ◼   ► when I was discussing on rectifs,

00:55:46 ◼   ► that I would love this feature,

00:55:48 ◼   ► but anyone who actually implements it,

00:55:50 ◼   ► it becomes immediately terrifying

00:55:52 ◼   ► and probably also not technically possible.

00:55:53 ◼   ► And I think what I said back on the rectifs,

00:55:55 ◼   ► so that I haven't listened back to the whole thing,

00:55:56 ◼   ► is like the only company that I wouldn't even remotely trust

00:55:59 ◼   ► to implement this in some future

00:56:00 ◼   ► where implementing it doesn't bring my system to its knees,

00:56:04 ◼   ► it would be a platform or like Apple that is privacy focused

00:56:07 ◼   ► because anybody else who implements this,

00:56:10 ◼   ► it is so scary that I would,

00:56:15 ◼   ► how could I possibly have trust in them?

00:56:16 ◼   ► And as we'll get to in a little bit,

00:56:19 ◼   ► this is a venture-funded company.

00:56:20 ◼   ► And so I'm like making, like it's like,

00:56:23 ◼   ► do I want a venture-funded company being responsible

00:56:28 ◼   ► for keeping all my data privacy

00:56:29 ◼   ► as it records everything that happens on my screen?

00:56:32 ◼   ► Probably not, but anyway, that's the product.

00:56:35 ◼   ► I think it actually is cool.

00:56:36 ◼   ► I am certainly a fan of livestreams.

00:56:38 ◼   ► I think it's technically cool,

00:56:39 ◼   ► but it also scares the heck out of me.

00:56:41 ◼   ► - I'm not sure I would trust even Apple with this,

00:56:43 ◼   ► for a number of reasons.

00:56:45 ◼   ► I mean, number one, I think just the liability

00:56:48 ◼   ► that you're creating by recording everything

00:56:51 ◼   ► that passes through your screen and/or microphone

00:56:54 ◼   ► or whatever else, if somebody had access to that,

00:56:56 ◼   ► even if it's just somebody who sat down at your computer

00:56:59 ◼   ► and you walked away for a minute,

00:57:00 ◼   ► it's having access to everything

00:57:03 ◼   ► that has shown on your screen.

00:57:04 ◼   ► And granted, this app says they could do things

00:57:06 ◼   ► like exclude your private Safari windows

00:57:09 ◼   ► so when you're looking at stuff

00:57:10 ◼   ► you shouldn't be looking at in polite company.

00:57:14 ◼   ► - Or exclude the Zoom window if your work

00:57:16 ◼   ► doesn't want you to record and stuff like that.

00:57:18 ◼   ► They built the features you would expect

00:57:20 ◼   ► that they would build in, but it's not like,

00:57:23 ◼   ► getting back to the live streaming thing

00:57:24 ◼   ► of the guy who has a camera on his head

00:57:26 ◼   ► and records his whole life, it's the same idea.

00:57:28 ◼   ► and this is a topic visited very often in science fiction.

00:57:31 ◼   ► Obviously they're doing it for like as academic,

00:57:33 ◼   ► let's try this thing, but just think about

00:57:34 ◼   ► what it would be like if you recorded

00:57:35 ◼   ► your entire life all day with your AR glasses,

00:57:38 ◼   ► it just recorded everywhere you went.

00:57:41 ◼   ► That is a tremendous, like you said, a tremendous liability.

00:57:44 ◼   ► Nobody wants every moment of their life recorded

00:57:47 ◼   ► and able to be recalled by somebody who's not them.

00:57:49 ◼   ► I don't even want it to be recalled by someone who is me.

00:57:52 ◼   ► I don't want to be able to go back

00:57:53 ◼   ► and see every moment of my past,

00:57:55 ◼   ► but I certainly don't want any arbitrary person

00:57:58 ◼   ► who gets access to my AR or goggle recording

00:58:01 ◼   ► to be able to jump back in time and look at what,

00:58:03 ◼   ► that is fodder for dystopian sci-fi entirely.

00:58:07 ◼   ► We're just talking about what happens on a computer,

00:58:09 ◼   ► but that's plenty scary enough.

00:58:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause your whole life is on your computer,

00:58:13 ◼   ► and the things you do, I mean, there's so much,

00:58:15 ◼   ► there's so much information there

00:58:18 ◼   ► that could be used against you in some way,

00:58:20 ◼   ► whether it's if you happen to flash a view

00:58:23 ◼   ► of your bank account on a browser somewhere,

00:58:25 ◼   ► or just sensitive emails you get,

00:58:27 ◼   ► you know, just sensitive documents you have to deal with,

00:58:30 ◼   ► what you're browsing for legitimate reasons,

00:58:33 ◼   ► like there's just so, there is so much there,

00:58:36 ◼   ► you are creating a massive honeypot reward

00:58:41 ◼   ► for one bad actor in any part of it to be able to access

00:58:46 ◼   ► and do horrendous things with.

00:58:47 ◼   ► And even, again, I wouldn't even trust Apple to do this.

00:58:51 ◼   ► And I trust Apple with a lot.

00:58:52 ◼   ► I trust that even though we will complain about them

00:58:56 ◼   ► when it's warranted, I do trust them a lot

00:59:00 ◼   ► with a lot of data and integrity.

00:59:02 ◼   ► That being said, as they push more into trying

00:59:06 ◼   ► to be an ad company with, I think,

00:59:10 ◼   ► somewhat spotty morals in that department,

00:59:13 ◼   ► I don't know that we could even trust them with that.

00:59:15 ◼   ► 'Cause I think what Apple's argument would be is,

00:59:18 ◼   ► well, we will keep it secure,

00:59:20 ◼   ► and we won't sell your data to other companies,

00:59:23 ◼   ► which is what they call tracking,

00:59:25 ◼   ► but Apple itself would probably at some point

00:59:29 ◼   ► use that for advertising targeting purposes.

00:59:31 ◼   ► Again, we're in a different world now.

00:59:34 ◼   ► Now that Apple is not only an ad company

00:59:38 ◼   ► and a rapidly expanding ad company,

00:59:41 ◼   ► but also now that Apple is having some tough quarters

00:59:44 ◼   ► with services growth, they're gonna tighten the screws,

00:59:48 ◼   ► they're gonna keep going.

00:59:49 ◼   ► This past month or quarter, whatever,

00:59:52 ◼   ► we had all of a sudden price hikes for all the services.

00:59:54 ◼   ► That's not a coincidence.

00:59:55 ◼   ► Look at their growth rates, look at their revenue rates.

00:59:58 ◼   ► It's slowing down.

00:59:59 ◼   ► All of a sudden we have lots of ads launching

01:00:01 ◼   ► around the app store.

01:00:02 ◼   ► Again, not a coincidence.

01:00:04 ◼   ► They're gonna keep tightening the screws

01:00:06 ◼   ► because what they call quote services

01:00:09 ◼   ► are all things where they can fairly easily

01:00:12 ◼   ► just like increase the spigot a little bit.

01:00:14 ◼   ► Just they can do things here and there

01:00:16 ◼   ► that will degrade things for users or developers

01:00:19 ◼   ► or both or whatever, but we'll give them

01:00:21 ◼   ► a little bit more money in the short term.

01:00:23 ◼   ► This is what companies do, Apple's not immune to it.

01:00:25 ◼   ► They're gonna keep doing this.

01:00:26 ◼   ► And so I can clearly imagine a future,

01:00:29 ◼   ► and I hope this never happens,

01:00:30 ◼   ► but I think it's extremely plausible

01:00:34 ◼   ► where if Apple had this feature of their platforms,

01:00:37 ◼   ► this total recording everything feature,

01:00:39 ◼   ► which frankly I don't think they would ever do

01:00:41 ◼   ► 'cause I think it's too problematic

01:00:43 ◼   ► and they would know that,

01:00:44 ◼   ► but if they were to ever launch such a thing,

01:00:47 ◼   ► There is no question in my mind that they would find a way,

01:00:51 ◼   ► once a bad quarter came around,

01:00:52 ◼   ► they would find a way to twist some logic to say,

01:00:55 ◼   ► okay, we're gonna now start using that data

01:00:56 ◼   ► to target ads to you.

01:00:57 ◼   ► And only in our apps though.

01:00:59 ◼   ► We're gonna be super privacy sensitive

01:01:01 ◼   ► and only we can do this creepy thing to your data.

01:01:05 ◼   ► But that's what they would do.

01:01:07 ◼   ► And so again, you look at even Apple,

01:01:10 ◼   ► who we trust so much,

01:01:11 ◼   ► who has a pretty good track record in most of these areas,

01:01:14 ◼   ► I think even they would be a very small step away

01:01:17 ◼   ► from taking advantage of that kind of thing

01:01:18 ◼   ► in a creepy way, and that's Apple.

01:01:20 ◼   ► Imagine any other company with access to that kind of data.

01:01:24 ◼   ► And I mean, especially, I think a VC funded company

01:01:27 ◼   ► is especially scary about that,

01:01:28 ◼   ► because it is really hard to look at that

01:01:31 ◼   ► and not be tempted when times get tough.

01:01:34 ◼   ► So when you're not meeting your numbers,

01:01:36 ◼   ► when you need a little bit more revenue

01:01:38 ◼   ► to hit some goal or to avoid some problem,

01:01:41 ◼   ► it's really, really hard to not tap that resource.

01:01:44 ◼   ► And it's a massive resource that could be used

01:01:46 ◼   ► in immensely creepy and terrible ways.

01:01:49 ◼   ► Not to mention, even going beyond stuff

01:01:52 ◼   ► like legal problems with it, which again,

01:01:54 ◼   ► there are many legal problems with like,

01:01:57 ◼   ► if you are recording things on your computer

01:01:59 ◼   ► without people's consent,

01:02:00 ◼   ► they're on the other side of those things,

01:02:02 ◼   ► that's a bit of a problem in a lot of places.

01:02:04 ◼   ► - I'm not sure if the law has caught up with that,

01:02:06 ◼   ► but certainly NDA law has caught up with that, right?

01:02:08 ◼   ► If you're under NDA, you're not supposed to record

01:02:12 ◼   ► anything that happens in the meetings

01:02:14 ◼   ► that you have at work or whatever.

01:02:16 ◼   ► If people use enterprise software to do their tele-meetings or whatever, they explicitly

01:02:21 ◼   ► disable recording if they don't want you to be able to record it, if that's their corporate

01:02:24 ◼   ► policy.

01:02:25 ◼   ► And of course, if you install a third-party app that also records on your computer using

01:02:28 ◼   ► for corporate stuff, you are certainly violating your employee agreement or some NDA or whatever,

01:02:32 ◼   ► which is a more well-trodden area of the law than...

01:02:36 ◼   ► The phone system, the law has kind of caught up with that.

01:02:38 ◼   ► So we have all the recording statutes that probably apply to recording someone saying

01:02:43 ◼   ► audio, but recording like an image that goes across your screen because someone sent it

01:02:47 ◼   ► to you in like a WhatsApp thing, it's so technically esoteric that I do wonder if the law in various

01:02:53 ◼   ► states would be able to, would be able to grapple with that or if it's just, you know,

01:02:57 ◼   ► something that hasn't ever been tried because this technology is so new.

01:03:01 ◼   ► It's funny also, one of the things that's on the rewind website is, you know, you can

01:03:07 ◼   ► record your meetings and at the bottom of this page it says, oh shoot, where did it

01:03:12 ◼   ► go?

01:03:13 ◼   ► like, "Oh, how does this work?" And then there's like a help page about it. At the bottom of that,

01:03:20 ◼   ► it says, "Make sure to read this article as well, colon, the importance of consent." And they talk

01:03:26 ◼   ► a little bit about it, and they say at the bottom of this article in bold, "We believe all users of

01:03:32 ◼   ► our product should proactively seek consent from everyone they record, even if they are not

01:03:35 ◼   ► illegally obligated to do so." And apparently, news to me, because I was looking at this earlier,

01:03:41 ◼   ► There are only 11 American states that are two-party.

01:03:45 ◼   ► Shoot, I lost the list, but somewhere around here.

01:03:47 ◼   ► I believe Massachusetts--

01:03:47 ◼   ► - California's a big one.

01:03:49 ◼   ► - Oh, here it is.

01:03:50 ◼   ► California, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Maryland,

01:03:51 ◼   ► Massachusetts, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire,

01:03:53 ◼   ► Pennsylvania, and Washington.

01:03:55 ◼   ► Not New York, apparently.

01:03:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, and again, this is not the first thing

01:03:58 ◼   ► that records your screen.

01:04:00 ◼   ► Screen recorders exist and have existed forever,

01:04:02 ◼   ► and all the legal things are also caught by that.

01:04:04 ◼   ► And in my time in corporate America in the latter years,

01:04:08 ◼   ► we routinely recorded every meeting.

01:04:10 ◼   ► It's basically like, oh, for people who couldn't show up

01:04:11 ◼   ► to the meeting, make sure we record it,

01:04:13 ◼   ► and it would get shoved into the cloud somewhere,

01:04:15 ◼   ► and some Microsoft thing, and then other people

01:04:16 ◼   ► would be able to view the meeting.

01:04:17 ◼   ► So recording meetings is not a thing that really happens.

01:04:20 ◼   ► What didn't happen as often is someone locally recording

01:04:22 ◼   ► using a third-party piece of software that they installed,

01:04:24 ◼   ► like it gets recorded and pushed to the Microsoft OneDrive

01:04:28 ◼   ► through the Microsoft Teams thing or whatever.

01:04:29 ◼   ► That is a feature that most people who work in corporations

01:04:32 ◼   ► want, but they wanna be able to control it.

01:04:34 ◼   ► So it's not like this is letting the recording

01:04:36 ◼   ► or screen-reading out of the bottle,

01:04:37 ◼   ► but the idea of it being pervasive,

01:04:39 ◼   ► because to get the value of it,

01:04:40 ◼   ► it kind of has to be pervasive.

01:04:42 ◼   ► And maybe you could just say,

01:04:43 ◼   ► I would just run that on my home computer,

01:04:44 ◼   ► not my work computer, but that also kind of cuts into things

01:04:47 ◼   ► if the thing that was sent to you was like a message,

01:04:49 ◼   ► a non-work related message sent to you in messages,

01:04:52 ◼   ► you're not gonna see it

01:04:53 ◼   ► if you go through your live stream later at home.

01:04:57 ◼   ► So here's what the CEO had to say about it

01:04:59 ◼   ► in a little Twitter thread

01:05:00 ◼   ► to sort of explain why his product is okay.

01:05:03 ◼   ► Local and private by design.

01:05:06 ◼   ► We record anything you've seen, said, or heard

01:05:08 ◼   ► and make it searchable.

01:05:09 ◼   ► For your privacy, we store all of the recordings

01:05:10 ◼   ► locally on your Mac, only you have access to them.

01:05:12 ◼   ► So as you would imagine, if they're trying to not be

01:05:15 ◼   ► immediately, ridiculously evil,

01:05:16 ◼   ► they do not take these recordings.

01:05:18 ◼   ► If you're a local computer and throw it into the cloud,

01:05:19 ◼   ► it's all just on your Mac.

01:05:21 ◼   ► It's, you know, it's all local, right?

01:05:23 ◼   ► Mind boggling compression.

01:05:25 ◼   ► This gets to the technical feasibility.

01:05:26 ◼   ► How can I record everything that's happening

01:05:28 ◼   ► on my screen all day without filling my disc, right?

01:05:30 ◼   ► Starring all the recordings locally

01:05:31 ◼   ► means compression is very important.

01:05:33 ◼   ► We compress raw data up to 3,750 times.

01:05:37 ◼   ► What an odd number.

01:05:38 ◼   ► Without major loss of quality, for example,

01:05:40 ◼   ► 10.5 gigabytes of raw recording data

01:05:42 ◼   ► becomes 2.8 megabytes.

01:05:43 ◼   ► And then finally, no cloud integration or IT required.

01:05:46 ◼   ► In order to enable you to search anything you've seen,

01:05:47 ◼   ► we use native Mac OS APIs with its optical character

01:05:50 ◼   ► recognition to recognize and index all the words

01:05:52 ◼   ► that appear in your screen.

01:05:52 ◼   ► So it's all happening locally.

01:05:54 ◼   ► It's all on your device.

01:05:55 ◼   ► And they're able to compress things

01:05:57 ◼   ► so that they get down to size.

01:05:58 ◼   ► And in terms of the-- they also touted their VC funding,

01:06:01 ◼   ► which is why everybody knows about it.

01:06:03 ◼   ► In terms of the business bottle, here's

01:06:04 ◼   ► something they had to say.

01:06:05 ◼   ► I think this is on their website,

01:06:06 ◼   ► on the how much does rewind cost.

01:06:07 ◼   ► Rewind is completely free for now.

01:06:09 ◼   ► Not reassuring, company.

01:06:10 ◼   ► - No.

01:06:11 ◼   ► - Don't put an exclamation on that, not reassuring.

01:06:12 ◼   ► Anyway, we plan to offer a free product indefinitely,

01:06:15 ◼   ► I'll bet, and for users to get a ton of value,

01:06:17 ◼   ► we will charge them a monthly subscription,

01:06:19 ◼   ► AKA freemium.

01:06:20 ◼   ► And then this is, this is not getting better here.

01:06:23 ◼   ► We aren't yet sure what the price will be

01:06:24 ◼   ► or what the features will be in the free product

01:06:26 ◼   ► versus the paid product.

01:06:27 ◼   ► We'll make that decision based on feedback we get.

01:06:29 ◼   ► One thing's for sure,

01:06:30 ◼   ► we will never sell your data or do advertising.

01:06:33 ◼   ► Are you sure about that?

01:06:34 ◼   ► - See, I would like to know what was their pitch

01:06:37 ◼   ► to the VCs, because I bet it contains

01:06:39 ◼   ► much more detail than that.

01:06:41 ◼   ► - I mean, they didn't get a huge amount of VC money,

01:06:43 ◼   ► and the person who, the CEO also had previously,

01:06:46 ◼   ► I think he was from Optimizely, which got--

01:06:48 ◼   ► - I love, hold on, just the ridiculousness

01:06:50 ◼   ► of like $10 million not being a huge,

01:06:52 ◼   ► and you're right, like in terms of,

01:06:54 ◼   ► but it's just, it's ridiculous.

01:06:56 ◼   ► - You know what I mean, but like in the grand scheme,

01:06:57 ◼   ► this is Andreessen Horowitz.

01:07:00 ◼   ► It's a big VC company, and he's had a successful company

01:07:03 ◼   ► that presumably he did well for the VCs

01:07:04 ◼   ► and when they invested in that company,

01:07:05 ◼   ► that's why he invested in his new company.

01:07:07 ◼   ► So here's the thing about this feature.

01:07:09 ◼   ► If you had gone back to my childhood

01:07:11 ◼   ► and found some technically minded adults

01:07:13 ◼   ► and said that a company's gonna make a product

01:07:15 ◼   ► that keeps track of our location all day, every day,

01:07:18 ◼   ► and makes that information accessible

01:07:20 ◼   ► to other people potentially,

01:07:22 ◼   ► they would say, "What, someone's gonna spy me

01:07:24 ◼   ► "and know where I am all the time?

01:07:25 ◼   ► "My device is gonna track my location on the Earth

01:07:28 ◼   ► "24 hours a day?

01:07:29 ◼   ► "This is a dystopian nightmare.

01:07:30 ◼   ► "We all have phones and we don't care about that."

01:07:32 ◼   ► It's like, well, it's just location data

01:07:33 ◼   ► and we trust Apple not to share with anybody.

01:07:35 ◼   ► And yeah, there was that thing where Google accidentally,

01:07:37 ◼   ► we let people get at every location and see that you're,

01:07:39 ◼   ► you know, where you go during the day.

01:07:41 ◼   ► Like there is kind of a,

01:07:43 ◼   ► an acclimation to technology tracking things

01:07:47 ◼   ► that were previously seemed like the surveillance state.

01:07:50 ◼   ► So, I mean, how many people use their phones

01:07:52 ◼   ► and turn location off so it's never tracked?

01:07:53 ◼   ► None of us do that because there's just so much utility

01:07:56 ◼   ► for a device that knows where we are.

01:07:58 ◼   ► Whether it's find my friends to find out

01:08:00 ◼   ► where people in your family are,

01:08:01 ◼   ► or just being able to set a reminder

01:08:02 ◼   ► so it knows when you get back home,

01:08:04 ◼   ► or maps features, or keeping track of your runs,

01:08:08 ◼   ► or how many steps you've taken and where you walked.

01:08:10 ◼   ► We have pretty much all accepted

01:08:12 ◼   ► and found a vendor that we can trust well enough

01:08:16 ◼   ► that we're okay essentially carrying a tracker around.

01:08:19 ◼   ► We're carrying a tracker around with us all day.

01:08:21 ◼   ► It's always keeping track of where we are

01:08:22 ◼   ► and it's recording it.

01:08:23 ◼   ► And we're like, yeah, we've worked out the kinks in that.

01:08:26 ◼   ► People are mostly okay with it.

01:08:28 ◼   ► But if you had dumped in somebody from the '70s

01:08:31 ◼   ► and describe that, it'd be like, no, I don't want this tracker.

01:08:34 ◼   ► Yes, it's an amazing peak of technology,

01:08:36 ◼   ► but I don't want it to be tracked.

01:08:37 ◼   ► And oh, you say it's only on the device,

01:08:39 ◼   ► or it's shared in this cloud.

01:08:40 ◼   ► You describe it, you say it's safe,

01:08:41 ◼   ► and it can't-- like, you have to do so much reassurance

01:08:44 ◼   ► and explaining of the cultural context for that to be OK.

01:08:47 ◼   ► Part of the reason that happened is

01:08:49 ◼   ► because we passed the technical threshold where doing that

01:08:51 ◼   ► is not prohibitive.

01:08:53 ◼   ► I'm not entirely sure that we have passed the threshold.

01:08:56 ◼   ► We're doing full screen recording or per window

01:09:00 ◼   ► recording an OCR is not oppressive because especially if you're on a laptop

01:09:03 ◼   ► it's gonna hurt your battery like there's a page on this site that says

01:09:07 ◼   ► look we're using the imaging powers of the M1 SoC to do all this compression

01:09:11 ◼   ► and I bet they are but every one of those little things takes power and that

01:09:16 ◼   ► you know especially on battery-powered devices like laptops but even on like a

01:09:19 ◼   ► desktop you're burning CPU cycles doing this thing that presumably will have

01:09:24 ◼   ► value later but you're burning it all the time like I mean again to get value

01:09:29 ◼   ► out of it, you can't just like run it for one hour a day.

01:09:31 ◼   ► You have to run it all the time.

01:09:33 ◼   ► So I do feel like the utility of this,

01:09:36 ◼   ► if this could exist immediately and magically work

01:09:40 ◼   ► and like be seamless and not impact your life

01:09:43 ◼   ► and not impact battery life,

01:09:45 ◼   ► I think the utility of it actually is tremendous,

01:09:49 ◼   ► but like getting over the hump of from where we are now

01:09:54 ◼   ► where it's not and people are scared of it

01:09:56 ◼   ► to the other side where it's just as scary

01:09:59 ◼   ► in the wrong hands,

01:10:01 ◼   ► but people are now used to the utility of it,

01:10:03 ◼   ► is kind of inevitable as everything,

01:10:07 ◼   ► I don't know if this is gonna happen,

01:10:08 ◼   ► but I've always talked about this before,

01:10:09 ◼   ► of like technology catching up with our perceptions, right?

01:10:12 ◼   ► So audio, we've got the technology

01:10:14 ◼   ► to make audio good enough for our human ears.

01:10:16 ◼   ► Like we can do it.

01:10:17 ◼   ► Like even if you're a crazy audio file person

01:10:19 ◼   ► who wants 192 kilohertz, whatever, 48 bit,

01:10:22 ◼   ► like we can do that, it's no problem.

01:10:24 ◼   ► audio does not need to get better for humans

01:10:26 ◼   ► until and unless we evolve better hearing,

01:10:28 ◼   ► and that's gonna take a long time, right?

01:10:30 ◼   ► We haven't caught up with video

01:10:31 ◼   ► 'cause video still is pixelated and it's not 3D

01:10:34 ◼   ► like our eyes see and you know, blah, blah, blah.

01:10:36 ◼   ► But if Moore's law continues long enough,

01:10:39 ◼   ► and eventually Moore's law does stop

01:10:41 ◼   ► 'cause you can't make things smaller forever,

01:10:42 ◼   ► see quantum physics, right?

01:10:44 ◼   ► If Moore's law continues long enough

01:10:46 ◼   ► that we max out on audio, vision, smell, touch,

01:10:51 ◼   ► like all our senses basically,

01:10:53 ◼   ► and we still have some more like doublings

01:10:57 ◼   ► of transistor density to go,

01:10:59 ◼   ► we're gonna get lifestreams whether we like it or not

01:11:01 ◼   ► because it'll basically be free

01:11:02 ◼   ► and to not do it would seem like wasteful, right?

01:11:06 ◼   ► And hopefully we will have the security things

01:11:07 ◼   ► worked out then hopefully we're all didn't die

01:11:09 ◼   ► in the water wars like there are many caveats

01:11:11 ◼   ► to what I'm describing here in this particular

01:11:13 ◼   ► timescale argument.

01:11:14 ◼   ► But the utility of this is tremendous

01:11:17 ◼   ► because if I said, look,

01:11:19 ◼   ► we're not gonna do any privacy things

01:11:20 ◼   ► but now a genie has granted you a wish

01:11:22 ◼   ► and you can go back to any moment and find anything

01:11:26 ◼   ► and where was that thing?

01:11:27 ◼   ► Like you have that magical ability, it's not technology,

01:11:28 ◼   ► it's literally magic.

01:11:30 ◼   ► People would take that in a second.

01:11:31 ◼   ► It's a superpower.

01:11:32 ◼   ► It's this kind of superpowers that computers give us.

01:11:35 ◼   ► Things that we can't do easily as human,

01:11:37 ◼   ► like remembering things or erasing things perfectly

01:11:39 ◼   ► or whatever, like computers can do.

01:11:42 ◼   ► They give us the power to do that.

01:11:44 ◼   ► This would be a superpower that computers could give us

01:11:47 ◼   ► if it could be harnessed in a way that we find acceptable

01:11:49 ◼   ► and doesn't totally destroy our lives.

01:11:51 ◼   ► Is 2022 the time and the place for that to happen on Mac OS

01:11:56 ◼   ► from a VC funded company?

01:11:59 ◼   ► Probably not, but I remain fascinated by the idea

01:12:03 ◼   ► and I think the utility of the idea is unavoidable.

01:12:08 ◼   ► Eventually, if we have excess computing capacity,

01:12:11 ◼   ► somebody's gonna do it and some generation of people

01:12:13 ◼   ► are gonna grow up and they're gonna think of it

01:12:14 ◼   ► the way we think about our phone's GPS tracking

01:12:17 ◼   ► or the way we think about Google searches.

01:12:18 ◼   ► Just as part of life, that it would be barbaric

01:12:21 ◼   ► live without because what the heck is the point of computers if not to do this thing?

01:12:24 ◼   ► It was interesting watching the intro video as well, which is literally a minute, I think,

01:12:29 ◼   ► to the second. And the CEO, Dan Soracher, I probably pronounced that wrong, but anyways,

01:12:34 ◼   ► he said that he went deaf or, you know, lost a lot of hearing in his 30s and then was able to get it

01:12:41 ◼   ► back by way of a hearing aid. And then he thought to himself, allegedly, you know, well, what else

01:12:45 ◼   ► could we apply this principle to? Like, how else can we like supercharge a human being? And, and

01:12:50 ◼   ► And he eventually landed on, well, what if you had perfect memory?

01:12:53 ◼   ► And that's kind of what this rewind thing is trying to do.

01:12:57 ◼   ► I don't know, I have very mixed feelings about it.

01:13:00 ◼   ► I like the fact that somebody is doing something innovative on Mac OS, because that seems to

01:13:05 ◼   ► be happening so rarely these days.

01:13:08 ◼   ► It is funny, like you had said, John, you know, unleashes Apple Silicon.

01:13:12 ◼   ► Rewind utilizes virtually every part of Apple's silicon system on a chip.

01:13:16 ◼   ► rewind doesn't tax system resources like CPU and memory while recording allegedly.

01:13:20 ◼   ► It uses every part of the SoC but doesn't tax CPU. You know CPU is part of the SoC.

01:13:26 ◼   ► And either way when you're using parts that don't count as a CPU, I'm not using the CPU,

01:13:30 ◼   ► I'm using the H.265 encoder. That still uses electricity. Like I know it uses less than doing

01:13:37 ◼   ► it on the CPU but like there's no avoiding the there is technical overhead for doing this.

01:13:42 ◼   ► Technical overhead for the compression, there's technical overhead for doing this the I/O for the

01:13:45 ◼   ► the storage and there's overhead of actually doing the screen recording.

01:13:49 ◼   ► It's not huge overhead, and I think our machines can mostly handle it, but it is going to impact

01:13:53 ◼   ► your battery life some amount.

01:13:54 ◼   ► I don't think they throw out any figures of like, "1% worse battery life," or "4% we don't

01:13:59 ◼   ► know what it is," but it's not zero.

01:14:01 ◼   ► Yeah, but I don't know.

01:14:03 ◼   ► As someone who genuinely has a pretty crummy memory, I find this very fascinating.

01:14:10 ◼   ► It is not often that I think to myself, "Oh, where did I see that thing?"

01:14:15 ◼   ► But it definitely happens.

01:14:16 ◼   ► And in a situation where I felt like I could trust

01:14:19 ◼   ► whatever vendor is providing this service,

01:14:23 ◼   ► I would probably be interested in it.

01:14:25 ◼   ► But I echo what both of you, particularly Marco,

01:14:27 ◼   ► was saying about the privacy implications,

01:14:30 ◼   ► about the consent implications.

01:14:33 ◼   ► Like, yeah, I guess every time I speak to anyone

01:14:35 ◼   ► on my computer, I can ask them if I have their consent

01:14:38 ◼   ► to record them.

01:14:39 ◼   ► - Or you could turn it off like it was a big switch

01:14:41 ◼   ► in the menu bar.

01:14:42 ◼   ► Like if, you know, again, it cuts into the value

01:14:44 ◼   ► if you turn it off, but it's a thing that you could do.

01:14:46 ◼   ► - But nevertheless, like,

01:14:47 ◼   ► I think this is a very fascinating idea.

01:14:49 ◼   ► And the fact that this group of people seems to claim

01:14:53 ◼   ► that they can realize this idea, that's super cool.

01:14:57 ◼   ► Now I'm skeptical that that's reality,

01:14:59 ◼   ► but I dig the demo, if nothing else.

01:15:02 ◼   ► Now maybe it's all smoke and mirrors,

01:15:03 ◼   ► but it looked really slick.

01:15:05 ◼   ► So I don't know, I would definitely be interested in this.

01:15:08 ◼   ► I put my name or my email in the list

01:15:11 ◼   ► just because I'd like to toy with it for a minute

01:15:12 ◼   ► and see what it does.

01:15:14 ◼   ► But a lot of the incentives that I see,

01:15:18 ◼   ► namely the fact that it's VC funded,

01:15:21 ◼   ► and they don't really seem to know

01:15:22 ◼   ► how they're gonna make money,

01:15:23 ◼   ► that does not align well with the incentives

01:15:26 ◼   ► I want them to have,

01:15:27 ◼   ► which is privacy beyond anything else.