The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► So, on Mother's Day, there's no better way to spend Mother's Day than watching baseball

00:00:04 ◼   ► games on TV.

00:00:07 ◼   ► We're really going to start off with baseball?

00:00:09 ◼   ► Well, I just have to because it's a day game.

00:00:15 ◼   ► Yankees are playing and famed Yankees superstar Andy Pettit, after a year in retirement, is

00:00:21 ◼   ► back on the mound for the first time since 2010 pitching in Yankee Stadium.

00:00:27 ◼   ► the TV announcers, I'm watching of course the Yankees telecast and they're

00:00:31 ◼   ► their poll of the day. I don't know if every other team does this but they

00:00:35 ◼   ► always have like a text message poll of the day where they're you know they

00:00:39 ◼   ► give you like four choices and you text message different numbers to cast

00:00:44 ◼   ► your vote. What was Andy Pettit's signature moment of his career? And the

00:00:48 ◼   ► winner was the 1996 World Series game against the Atlanta Braves where he the

00:00:55 ◼   ► The Yankees won that game, won nothing, and he out-dueled Braves Hall of Fame pitcher

00:01:01 ◼   ► John Smoltz. So now you see where I'm going with this.

00:01:04 ◼   ► And now I see where you're going.

00:01:06 ◼   ► And I'm explaining it to Jonas, and Jonas was like, "Well, tell me all about it. Who?"

00:01:11 ◼   ► And he said, "Who's John Smoltz?" And all of a sudden, Amy walks into the room. She's like,

00:01:15 ◼   ► "You've got to be kidding me. That's made up, right?" And I'm like, "No, he was an all-star.

00:01:21 ◼   ► He was a great pitcher. She's like John Smoltz, really? I'm sure.

00:01:24 ◼   ► And then she just wandered off. She thought that you had got a hold of the Yankees announcers.

00:01:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know. She didn't hear the TV guys talking about it. She heard me explaining it to

00:01:36 ◼   ► Jonas and thought that I was just making up names of baseball players based on the four or five

00:01:46 ◼   ► actual friends I have in life that'd be neat I don't know why it never really

00:01:52 ◼   ► occurred to me until that very moment when she came in and said that never

00:01:55 ◼   ► really occurred to me just how similar your names are yeah I mean I think

00:02:00 ◼   ► they're completely unrelated as far as I know remember that guy he used to play

00:02:06 ◼   ► it's certainly my skill of baseball would indicate that you remember the guy

00:02:09 ◼   ► he used to play for the Kansas City Chiefs John Scruber there's a kicker now

00:02:16 ◼   ► you're making it he was a he was a kicker a place kicker now you are though

00:02:23 ◼   ► you're not John Smoltz you are John moltz I am the last time I checked which

00:02:28 ◼   ► was earlier today I'm John Gruber yes we have to say that I usually don't say

00:02:34 ◼   ► that's gonna cause confusion I did the whole thing is very confusing I just

00:02:38 ◼   ► told you do you want me to I just told we just spent 30 minutes I spent 30

00:02:41 ◼   ► minutes trying to figure out how to make a Skype call because I am always just

00:02:45 ◼   ► wondering if that was the problem really was I mean I've had a lot of problems

00:02:50 ◼   ► with Skype I've always had a lot of problems with Skype I everybody has

00:02:53 ◼   ► problems with Skype I when I try to use Skype I am your grandfather with the

00:03:00 ◼   ► with a new PC and I'm you know I don't know how I'm talking into the mouse

00:03:07 ◼   ► It is to me the most baffling application I have ever seen in my life.

00:03:15 ◼   ► Nothing you can do with it ever seems to be what you want.

00:03:18 ◼   ► It seems to me like once you have somebody's contact and if you double click them, it should

00:03:21 ◼   ► be like either start a call or like, "Hey, you want to call this person?"

00:03:25 ◼   ► Nope.

00:03:26 ◼   ► Not what happened.

00:03:28 ◼   ► I'm so afraid of Skype that I have not updated it in, let's see, so it must have been since

00:03:34 ◼   ► 2008.

00:03:35 ◼   ► It looks like I'm running version 2.7 and I think it's well beyond that.

00:03:41 ◼   ► But it's like it works and I know that other people have had trouble after they've updated

00:03:46 ◼   ► it.

00:03:47 ◼   ► So I'm just like I'm not – until it stops working, I'm not –

00:03:49 ◼   ► I would recommend that.

00:03:50 ◼   ► See now my problem is I was doing that on another computer where I had upgraded to whatever

00:03:56 ◼   ► the new version is.

00:03:57 ◼   ► And it really – they just made it worse, like way worse.

00:04:03 ◼   ► But then I had, I got a new computer, I have a new error over here, and I mean I guess

00:04:07 ◼   ► I could dig up the old copy of Skype somewhere.

00:04:09 ◼   ► But I think it says something that they still make the old, like if you Google hard enough

00:04:12 ◼   ► you can still find the download for it.

00:04:15 ◼   ► Usually that's a pretty bad sign, I think.

00:04:18 ◼   ► Right.

00:04:19 ◼   ► Right.

00:04:20 ◼   ► You shouldn't need to be leaving that out there for people to use.

00:04:23 ◼   ► Right.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Like it's one thing if you have an old version because your new version only works on operating

00:04:29 ◼   ► system from last year and newer. And hey, if you're on an old operating system, here's

00:04:34 ◼   ► an old version. And there's a technical limitation that would help people out by keeping an old

00:04:41 ◼   ► version available. But when it really is, people are so confused by the new version

00:04:45 ◼   ► that they can't make calls.

00:04:48 ◼   ► Right. They can't actually use it to do what it's supposed to be doing.

00:04:52 ◼   ► Right. Like at some point, you just know though, and you just know that there's a meeting where

00:04:56 ◼   ► There's somebody who raised their hand, and they were like, hey, maybe instead of keeping

00:05:01 ◼   ► the old version available, what if we fixed the new version so it wasn't confusing?

00:05:06 ◼   ► And they got shot down.

00:05:08 ◼   ► And then they just went back and had a desk drink.

00:05:17 ◼   ► You've got a new website, too.

00:05:19 ◼   ► Is it still new?

00:05:20 ◼   ► Do we – how long do we –

00:05:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess so.

00:05:23 ◼   ► I mean, yeah.

00:05:24 ◼   ► I mean, I guess in internet terms it's not that new anymore, but it's new to me.

00:05:29 ◼   ► It's a couple months old.

00:05:30 ◼   ► It's a very nice website.

00:05:31 ◼   ► Well, maybe not even that much.

00:05:33 ◼   ► Literally.

00:05:34 ◼   ► Literally and figuratively, it's verynicewebsite.net.

00:05:40 ◼   ► John Moltz's verynicewebsite.

00:05:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:42 ◼   ► I was going to mention, I was looking for something that I linked to the other day because

00:05:47 ◼   ► it was relevant to what we were just talking about, is that you can still run Windows 8

00:05:56 ◼   ► on Macs that you cannot run Lion on.

00:06:00 ◼   ► Wow.

00:06:02 ◼   ► Which I found kind of interesting.

00:06:04 ◼   ► I installed Windows 8.

00:06:06 ◼   ► I got the preview copy of Windows 8 just for fun and put it on an old, I had the first

00:06:12 ◼   ► Intel Mac Mini is a course solo, and it won't take Lion, but it took Windows 8.

00:06:17 ◼   ► That is kind of weird.

00:06:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:20 ◼   ► I mean, I think some of that just has to do with their different markets, I mean, I think.

00:06:26 ◼   ► But also, it's just their different attitudes towards backwards compatibility.

00:06:31 ◼   ► Right. And it's the fact that Apple is fundamentally a computer maker,

00:06:36 ◼   ► not an operating system company maker.

00:06:40 ◼   ► Right.

00:06:40 ◼   ► Right.

00:06:41 ◼   ► Great. Microsoft is interested in selling you the operating system. If you've got older hardware,

00:06:44 ◼   ► yeah, we'd love to sell you the operating system. But whereas Apple, yeah, no, we'd really rather

00:06:49 ◼   ► you go out and buy a new Mac. I've got an upcoming headache on my hands where I've got family members

00:06:55 ◼   ► who've got Lion Macs, Macs running Lion. I think it's a Lion or is it Snow Leopard? No,

00:07:06 ◼   ► No, Snow Leopard, gotta go back further.

00:07:09 ◼   ► Snow Leopard.

00:07:10 ◼   ► See, that's just the thing.

00:07:11 ◼   ► And good old Wolf Wrench used to complain about it endlessly

00:07:15 ◼   ► that he could only remember the two most recent cat names

00:07:20 ◼   ► and how they correspond.

00:07:21 ◼   ► And then otherwise, it's like,

00:07:22 ◼   ► I remember that there was one called Tiger.

00:07:24 ◼   ► I don't remember what the hell it was.

00:07:26 ◼   ► Whereas if you just stick to the 10-4, 10-5, 10-6,

00:07:29 ◼   ► you know which one was newer and older.

00:07:31 ◼   ► Anyway, I think that they're all on 10-5,

00:07:34 ◼   ► which was Snow Leopard.

00:07:36 ◼   ► And so they can't do iCloud.

00:07:39 ◼   ► And they've got mac.com or me.com, MobileMe,

00:07:44 ◼   ► and the MobileMe apocalypse is drawing nigh.

00:07:48 ◼   ► - 10-5 is leopard.

00:07:50 ◼   ► - All right, whatever.

00:07:51 ◼   ► - 10-6 is snow leopard, 10-7 is lion.

00:07:53 ◼   ► - You would think I would know this, really.

00:07:55 ◼   ► This is very unprofessional.

00:07:56 ◼   ► - No, it gets me all the time too.

00:07:58 ◼   ► And recently I noticed that I was,

00:08:00 ◼   ► 'cause I have a, I mean, as you might suspect,

00:08:03 ◼   ► have a mess of Macs in my office of varying ages. And I mean the way that I

00:08:09 ◼   ► remember that is I fortunately I have all the boxes from the different

00:08:14 ◼   ► operating system releases in a row on my shelf. But right now they're all

00:08:19 ◼   ► they're all like strewn across the room because I've been updating and I got a

00:08:23 ◼   ► new, you know Tom Carmony. Of course. He's moving to San Francisco, he had a

00:08:28 ◼   ► yard sale and I picked up a lime iMac from him and so I had to find something

00:08:37 ◼   ► that would run run on that you and I are it's a sickness it's a sickness I people

00:08:43 ◼   ► say stuff to me people said people write to me and like hey I was digging through

00:08:47 ◼   ► my garage and I found it an old Apple extended keyboard it's in great condition

00:08:52 ◼   ► and I'd my mind I think send it to me I had a guy a couple weeks ago who told me

00:08:58 ◼   ► that he had a an SE 30 in the box and and that he goes I don't know what I was

00:09:03 ◼   ► thinking he seems like he was like you know it's a couple years older than us

00:09:06 ◼   ► but he bought it in like 1989 or 90 brand-new and never opened it thinking

00:09:12 ◼   ► that that when he retired he would he would use it as his you know he would

00:09:18 ◼   ► keep it and then when he retired he'd get into it that's where he got and he

00:09:24 ◼   ► says don't laugh it made sense at the time I didn't I wasn't really thinking

00:09:27 ◼   ► about the fact that computers really change every two years. In a sense, think about the way he went.

00:09:35 ◼   ► I think, and I don't want to put words in the fellow's mouth, but I think that he was thinking

00:09:38 ◼   ► about it in a way that maybe 50 years prior, a guy might have thought, "You know what? When I retire,

00:09:45 ◼   ► I want to try to take a shot at writing a novel and buying the typewriter 20 years first, just as

00:09:52 ◼   ► is like a little reminder that, "Hey, I'm going to retire in 15 years. What I'm going

00:09:57 ◼   ► to do when I retire is write a novel. There's my typewriter. I'm going to keep it in the

00:10:00 ◼   ► box and every couple of days I'm going to look at it and think about what I'm going

00:10:03 ◼   ► to do." I think that's how he went into it with the computer, but then next thing you

00:10:07 ◼   ► know he's got a 25-year-old SE30 he's never opened up.

00:10:13 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer** But in the box.

00:10:15 ◼   ► **Ezra Klein** Right. I'm not 100% sure whether he's never even cracked the seal on it or

00:10:20 ◼   ► whatever.

00:10:21 ◼   ► And then he was saying that and then he thought you know I got to get rid of this thing and he thought he could

00:10:25 ◼   ► Sell it for what he bought it for in 1991 or whatever and then he found out to know you can't

00:10:30 ◼   ► Know you see 30 is not worth five thousand dollars. Yeah, yeah, I had my first Mac was an SE with though

00:10:39 ◼   ► not the 30 but with the

00:10:41 ◼   ► Double I know high density hard high density hard drive or don't fluffy drive

00:10:45 ◼   ► and I you know I sold it to buy the next one and you know

00:10:50 ◼   ► But I still had, like, ten years later or whatever it was,

00:10:54 ◼   ► I still had all of the floppy disks lying around.

00:10:57 ◼   ► I had all these little games,

00:10:58 ◼   ► and I thought, "Oh, it'd be kind of fun to try these."

00:11:00 ◼   ► So this was like ten years ago now.

00:11:03 ◼   ► And I got on eBay a machine that I paid $2,000 for.

00:11:06 ◼   ► I got it for a dollar.

00:11:08 ◼   ► Basically got the same machine for a dollar.

00:11:11 ◼   ► -Right. -And now it's here in my office

00:11:15 ◼   ► with a Mac Plus that a friend found on the side of the road.

00:11:19 ◼   ► and I'm using them for shelving.

00:11:21 ◼   ► You I at my instincts are in the same way and I have to fight it.

00:11:26 ◼   ► Yeah, every step of the way. I think of course I want that set it up.

00:11:29 ◼   ► Well, that's what that's what Diane told Diane said that she had this conversation with Amy Jane.

00:11:34 ◼   ► She said because what I bought the iMac from Tom, she said you're just like Groover.

00:11:40 ◼   ► You know, and I don't have it set up like I don't have I don't have as many as you do.

00:11:47 ◼   ► and I'm trying to fight the instinct to collect more, but my instinct is always to say yes.

00:11:51 ◼   ► And if I would do the same thing, I didn't even really care for the candy-colored Mac era.

00:11:58 ◼   ► Didn't really even care for that whole aesthetic. But if I was at Tom Carmody's house and he's

00:12:02 ◼   ► having a moving garage sale and there's a nice lime green iMac, my instinct would be,

00:12:06 ◼   ► "Well, I'll take that." Yeah. I missed a 12-inch power book by like 10 minutes.

00:12:12 ◼   ► Would have bought that too. I was just kicking myself.

00:12:15 ◼   ► But I walked out of there with a lime iMac.

00:12:19 ◼   ► I had never had one of this generation either.

00:12:23 ◼   ► I went straight from a Performa 6400 to a G4 power Mac.

00:12:29 ◼   ► You know, we are – you and I, we've rehearsed this show very, very – we put a lot of effort

00:12:35 ◼   ► into the rehearsal and preparation.

00:12:37 ◼   ► But while we were doing that, one of the things we talked about – you talked about the site

00:12:43 ◼   ► you used to write for.

00:12:44 ◼   ► I guess you haven't really officially shut it down, but CARS, the Crazy Apple Rumor Site.

00:12:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:49 ◼   ► You were telling me about a piece you had to abandon about the – how would you describe

00:12:59 ◼   ► her?

00:13:01 ◼   ► The –

00:13:02 ◼   ► The MAC –

00:13:04 ◼   ► The clip – I mean, I assume that she's clip art.

00:13:07 ◼   ► I mean, she was like not actually a person who worked there.

00:13:11 ◼   ► The MAC connection.

00:13:12 ◼   ► But the MAC connection –

00:13:13 ◼   ► Catalog.

00:13:14 ◼   ► buy, yeah, I mean the way that we got our information back then was you get these

00:13:17 ◼   ► magazines. You get Macworld, you get MacAddict or whatever, and in the back you

00:13:21 ◼   ► open it up and there are all these ads for places like MacConnection and MacMall

00:13:26 ◼   ► that, you know, where we used to buy all that's all of our stuff for their Apple

00:13:29 ◼   ► stores because, you know, there was chances are there was no place in town

00:13:32 ◼   ► that you could buy anything from Apple. If you're certainly, if you were someplace,

00:13:38 ◼   ► you know, a smaller town, maybe you could go to a Circuit City or not, what was it,

00:13:43 ◼   ► CompUSA and go back, you know, and sandwiched between the peripherals of

00:13:48 ◼   ► the damned there be your Mac section. But most everybody bought stuff from the

00:13:53 ◼   ► back of these magazines and so there was always they always had some pretty girl

00:13:57 ◼   ► who was supposedly the phone the phone the person that you would call who would

00:14:02 ◼   ► be ready and willing to take your your order and so the piece was you know

00:14:08 ◼   ► going to be about what she's doing now because those places don't I don't think

00:14:14 ◼   ► they do the pool and the thing is the thing to remember is that Mac connection

00:14:17 ◼   ► was one of the bigger names number two number two it and this really dates us I

00:14:21 ◼   ► mean this is me and you we're getting into grandfather mode here but you have

00:14:24 ◼   ► to remember there was no web yet I mean we're talking early night right very

00:14:28 ◼   ► early night yeah nobody trust me nobody bought anything I mean before Amazon

00:14:33 ◼   ► really this is before there even was a web though I mean or if there was it

00:14:36 ◼   ► certainly couldn't buy stuff on it. Yeah, some of it, yeah. So if you wanted to buy a new modem,

00:14:41 ◼   ► you had to have like a magazine handy where you'd call one of these 1-800 numbers and tell them

00:14:46 ◼   ► which one you wanted and do it. But the thing with Mac Connection is it was always the exact

00:14:52 ◼   ► same photo of this woman. It never changed. They never picked a different woman. They only had one

00:14:58 ◼   ► picture of her, which is certainly one of the reasons I always thought it was clipart too, that

00:15:01 ◼   ► they, you know, it wasn't like they had a series of photos. Yeah, they were taking a new picture

00:15:06 ◼   ► of her every year. And once you ordered something from one of these companies, there was another

00:15:10 ◼   ► big one is MacMall. I mean, I don't know these things. They might even still be around. I don't

00:15:14 ◼   ► know. But but once you ordered them MacMall definitely you would get on their list and then

00:15:19 ◼   ► once a month they'd send you an updated catalog. And this actually was this wasn't like annoying.

00:15:23 ◼   ► I wish they'd stop this was actually helpful. Because then you would you know, that was like

00:15:28 ◼   ► the only way you'd know what the new prices were for stuff. Right. And find out about new products.

00:15:32 ◼   ► Right? It was effectively the app store and Amazon all rolled up in one, because that's

00:15:38 ◼   ► how you actually had to buy your apps. You had to buy your apps in a box. But that connection

00:15:44 ◼   ► always was the exact same woman. And anybody from that era will know. I mean, she was attractive,

00:15:49 ◼   ► but she wasn't super attractive. No, girl next door.

00:15:53 ◼   ► Yeah. Totally feasible that maybe she was somebody who answered the phone for them.

00:15:57 ◼   ► And they're like, "Hey, Sally, would you mind if we take a picture?"

00:16:01 ◼   ► Yeah, and maybe she was. I mean, I don't know for sure, but maybe she did work there at one point.

00:16:05 ◼   ► Right.

00:16:06 ◼   ► She's like, "Hey, turn around. Click."

00:16:08 ◼   ► She didn't really... She did not look like a model, like a fashion model, who was told,

00:16:14 ◼   ► "Hey, put this headset on and pretend you're on the phone for a second."

00:16:17 ◼   ► You know, but she was attractive, but she also was very attractive in like a... The photo was

00:16:25 ◼   ► was very clearly taken in 1987. She could not have looked more 80s.

00:16:31 ◼   ► Even by the early 90s, she sort of started looking dated.

00:16:34 ◼   ► But she effectively was the logo for Mac

00:16:42 ◼   ► Connection. What the apple with a bite out of it, Mark, is to

00:16:47 ◼   ► Apple, that woman was to Mac Connection. You wouldn't know it was Mac

00:16:52 ◼   ► connection if you didn't see her. And her photo was huge. It was huge on the catalog.

00:16:56 ◼   ► It was like, "We're the people with this woman that's…"

00:16:59 ◼   ► And what'd you say though?

00:17:01 ◼   ► I'm going to go to their site to see if she's still there.

00:17:09 ◼   ► And you said you had to abandon the piece though.

00:17:11 ◼   ► Yeah, it just got too dark.

00:17:14 ◼   ► There's no good place to take a comedy watch.

00:17:17 ◼   ► She's she's yeah, it didn't end up well for her

00:17:19 ◼   ► She's in an unhappy marriage

00:17:22 ◼   ► So I feel like there's a lot going on I feel like

00:17:27 ◼   ► Like this is we're gonna fill up an hour here easy

00:17:31 ◼   ► I mean today today, there's a couple things new stuff. I mean stuff that just if we had recorded yesterday

00:17:36 ◼   ► We would already be out of date

00:17:38 ◼   ► Right so what do we got today run run down the news today?

00:17:45 ◼   ► Samsung loses how much?

00:17:50 ◼   ► 19 gazillion, $10 billion wiped off its value

00:17:54 ◼   ► following a report by Digitimes.

00:17:56 ◼   ► Digitimes, man, that's gotta hurt.

00:17:58 ◼   ► That's the worst part.

00:17:59 ◼   ► 10 billion wiped off your value from a report by Digitimes

00:18:04 ◼   ► indicating that Apple placed a large order for DRAM

00:18:09 ◼   ► from a Japanese competitor, Alpida.

00:18:13 ◼   ► It is crazy.

00:18:14 ◼   ► Digitimes.

00:18:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:18 ◼   ► And I think, I mean, that's happened,

00:18:20 ◼   ► I mean, maybe not to that degree,

00:18:21 ◼   ► but some of that has happened to Apple in the past,

00:18:24 ◼   ► certainly.

00:18:25 ◼   ► And I don't know, maybe not sourced from Digitimes,

00:18:28 ◼   ► but definitely, I mean, there's been instances

00:18:30 ◼   ► where some rumors have negatively affected

00:18:33 ◼   ► Apple's share of players, but this is pretty big.

00:18:36 ◼   ► I mean, it's old news.

00:18:38 ◼   ► I mean, and you can find examples of it every week

00:18:40 ◼   ► where the stock market is not rational

00:18:43 ◼   ► and it tends to overreact.

00:18:45 ◼   ► It's a herd mentality.

00:18:46 ◼   ► But this seems--

00:18:47 ◼   ► I mean, and you and I, it's not like we're fans of Samsung

00:18:50 ◼   ► in particular.

00:18:51 ◼   ► But this seems outrageously unfair to Samsung.

00:18:55 ◼   ► I mean, Samsung seems to be doing pretty darn well

00:18:59 ◼   ► as a business.

00:19:00 ◼   ► Say what you want about whether you

00:19:02 ◼   ► like using the Galaxy Dingus phones or whatever.

00:19:04 ◼   ► But they seem to have a really rich business,

00:19:08 ◼   ► where they have a lot of--

00:19:09 ◼   ► they're doing well in the phone market.

00:19:11 ◼   ► They're the only company other than Apple

00:19:12 ◼   ► any significant profit. I mean, there's only two companies in the world making a serious profit

00:19:17 ◼   ► selling phones, Apple and Samsung. And then the only third company that's making like

00:19:22 ◼   ► $10 a year is HTC. Everyone else is losing money. So that's pretty good. They make their own screens,

00:19:29 ◼   ► they've got manufacturing, they're doing well in the TV business. They have a wide ranging,

00:19:35 ◼   ► I mean, they're a conglomerate in every sense of the word, and it seems like they're doing

00:19:38 ◼   ► really well. And then Digitime says Apple's buying DRAM from a Japanese company.

00:19:42 ◼   ► And they lose six billion dollars. Is that what it was? Six billion dollars? Ten, it says ten billion dollars in market cap.

00:19:48 ◼   ► This is, I'm looking at Electroneista, but it was on several.

00:19:51 ◼   ► Right, I mean, I presume that that will even out and people will sober up after lunch and maybe the stock will

00:19:58 ◼   ► Yeah. Even out, but it just seems, especially coming a day or two after

00:20:03 ◼   ► Harry McCracken's epic. All right, let's see. Here's 25 digit time reports from the last few years.

00:20:11 ◼   ► Right, and then they run back in and "ah, sell your Samsung."

00:20:16 ◼   ► Right.

00:20:17 ◼   ► And like, that's like Harry McCracken.

00:20:20 ◼   ► I mean, that is like some serious claim chowder cooking to go not just like one at a time,

00:20:25 ◼   ► but to do 25.

00:20:26 ◼   ► And more or less the result was if the report from Digitimes was even vaguely sensational

00:20:32 ◼   ► and interesting, it ended up being complete bullshit.

00:20:36 ◼   ► The only ones that panned out were the ones that were kind of obvious, like, "Apple's

00:20:42 ◼   ► making the new phone this year."

00:20:46 ◼   ► Like anything that was actually like newsworthy.

00:20:49 ◼   ► And it just appalls me.

00:20:51 ◼   ► Over and over again, people will still credulously report things from Digitimes.

00:20:59 ◼   ► I think most of the rumor sites now seem to at least be putting some sort of disclaimer

00:21:05 ◼   ► in about digital right that their record is a little but they still yeah to me

00:21:10 ◼   ► they're they're so bad it's not worth it I mean it's not even worth mentioning

00:21:14 ◼   ► right I mean it's so bad that I think you could really you you would clean up

00:21:20 ◼   ► I mean like at a preposterous set sense you would just clean up if you bet

00:21:24 ◼   ► against anything they were against because they're never they're never

00:21:28 ◼   ► Never right.

00:21:31 ◼   ► Very strange.

00:21:32 ◼   ► Now, you like to gamble.

00:21:33 ◼   ► I do like to gamble.

00:21:36 ◼   ► Do you play the stocks?

00:21:37 ◼   ► No, I don't.

00:21:38 ◼   ► I should, but because, you know.

00:21:40 ◼   ► Yeah, it seems like those two things will go hand in hand.

00:21:44 ◼   ► I can see how it's – and I think once you have a taste for it, I do – and then stuff

00:21:49 ◼   ► like this JP Morgan stuff where the guy lost $2 billion or whatever, it's like, "Whoops."

00:21:55 ◼   ► It really is.

00:21:56 ◼   ► It's the same thing.

00:21:57 ◼   ► There's no difference between blackjack and the stock market except I think that the difference

00:22:02 ◼   ► is there's no house in the stock market.

00:22:05 ◼   ► So if you're the big guy, I mean that's the advantage to it is that you might be able

00:22:11 ◼   ► to actually win in the long term since there's nobody taking a mathematical cut.

00:22:17 ◼   ► Somebody did a thing a couple of years ago.

00:22:19 ◼   ► I forget if it was Matt Howey or somebody but they just – it wasn't super recent.

00:22:25 ◼   ► It was before Apple really became huge.

00:22:28 ◼   ► It was when Apple was like in, wow, Apple's making a nice recovery, but they're still

00:22:32 ◼   ► like one of the smaller players in tech.

00:22:37 ◼   ► Somebody had done a thing where they just tracked Apple's stock price after keynote

00:22:42 ◼   ► announcements.

00:22:43 ◼   ► And it like four times out of five, it went down the day of, you know, like the afternoon

00:22:50 ◼   ► after a keynote and always recovered by the next week.

00:22:54 ◼   ► and then climb back.

00:22:55 ◼   ► That you could, you know, that it looked like you could really, without paying any attention

00:22:59 ◼   ► to the specifics of the rumors or even listening to what was announced in the keynote, if you

00:23:04 ◼   ► just bought Apple in the afternoon after it dipped 5% because they didn't announce, you

00:23:10 ◼   ► know, 3D glasses that run on infinitely, never run dry batteries as was predicted by analysts,

00:23:18 ◼   ► and then just sell it in a week after it recovered and everybody was like, "Hey, you know, they

00:23:22 ◼   ► actually did announce some cool stuff.

00:23:24 ◼   ► When they sober up.

00:23:28 ◼   ► Yeah, you could just make money. You could just mint money on it. I feel like there's

00:23:32 ◼   ► a lot of patterns. You probably could make a lot. There's got to be some patterns like

00:23:35 ◼   ► that in the stock market.

00:23:37 ◼   ► Right. There definitely are. Every once in a while, it'll buck the trend. But still,

00:23:45 ◼   ► if you did it over time enough, you got to make a lot of money doing that. There's

00:23:52 ◼   ► lot of – I think there's – you can see a lot of gaming. I mean, it's almost – you

00:23:56 ◼   ► can see that there are people trying to float rumors leading up to events in order to try

00:24:05 ◼   ► to affect the stock price.

00:24:07 ◼   ► Right. There's two senses of that. There's the nerd sense where we just listen and we

00:24:14 ◼   ► just want to know about the cool stuff and the sites like The Verge and Gadget. We just

00:24:20 ◼   ► wanting here, we just want, give us the specs.

00:24:24 ◼   ► You know, in a way that we don't, we're happy when we have surprises in the keynote that aren't spoiled.

00:24:32 ◼   ► But if they're going to be spoiled, let me read all the details about it in advance. I can't help myself.

00:24:36 ◼   ► Right. But we really just are doing it as nerds.

00:24:40 ◼   ► But there's also clearly another set of people who are setting things up to try to like,

00:24:45 ◼   ► it just seems very clear that they're trying to move the stock.

00:24:48 ◼   ► - Right.

00:24:49 ◼   ► - Tell us.

00:24:51 ◼   ► - It's more like, the stock market's more like,

00:24:55 ◼   ► it's just more like poker than like,

00:24:57 ◼   ► you know, more like where you're sitting around

00:24:58 ◼   ► playing poker with a bunch of different people

00:25:00 ◼   ► as opposed to playing the house.

00:25:01 ◼   ► - Yes, exactly.

00:25:03 ◼   ► - I have a friend who years ago actually did that.

00:25:07 ◼   ► I mean, decided, he got into online,

00:25:10 ◼   ► you know, playing poker online,

00:25:11 ◼   ► and then got so good at it that he decided

00:25:16 ◼   ► he was gonna take six months and try and make it his job.

00:25:19 ◼   ► And he did, I mean, and he did okay.

00:25:23 ◼   ► His family wasn't out on the street or anything,

00:25:25 ◼   ► but he didn't do incredibly.

00:25:28 ◼   ► But the thing that really drove him back

00:25:31 ◼   ► to do a regular job was that he

00:25:34 ◼   ► just got tired of taking advantage of people

00:25:37 ◼   ► because that's what you have to do.

00:25:39 ◼   ► I mean, you go in there and I mean, particularly around here, he wasn't in Vegas.

00:25:43 ◼   ► He was he was around here going to Indian casinos.

00:25:46 ◼   ► And and then, you know, you get to know the people who would play there and then you'd know what their

00:25:51 ◼   ► weaknesses are and you would just exploit them.

00:25:55 ◼   ► And, you know, he he figured he either had to really like go into that

00:26:00 ◼   ► in order to make a good living doing it or he had to just, you know, give up and do something else.

00:26:05 ◼   ► So he decided to do something else.

00:26:07 ◼   ► But that, I mean, it seems like that situation is more like the stock market.

00:26:11 ◼   ► Yeah, I think definitely. But it's also the case

00:26:15 ◼   ► too where it's almost like poker

00:26:19 ◼   ► where sometimes the cards, you can just see everybody's cards. And I think Apple

00:26:23 ◼   ► is that type of company. It's like one of the non-stop recurring

00:26:27 ◼   ► themes of what I talk about, what I write about, is that

00:26:31 ◼   ► Apple is really a fairly simple company. They really, I mean,

00:26:35 ◼   ► by market value they're the biggest company in the world but they're really

00:26:41 ◼   ► really pretty simple. I mean you can actually get to know the company just by

00:26:46 ◼   ► walking into one of their stores because the stores sort of represent everything

00:26:51 ◼   ► they do and the emphasis they put on things in the stores is pretty close to

00:26:56 ◼   ► relative the importance it is to them as a company. You know the iPhones and iPads

00:27:01 ◼   ► are up front. The most important Macs are the MacBooks, especially the Airs, and you

00:27:10 ◼   ► know the iPhone cases are in the back. It's a really simple company and then you read,

00:27:18 ◼   ► you know, if you're obsessed with the company like we are and then you sometimes you see

00:27:22 ◼   ► the financial analysts and they're so bizarrely wrong and you just associate from that. That's

00:27:29 ◼   ► All they do is just study the company.

00:27:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's a good point.

00:27:32 ◼   ► I hadn't thought about that.

00:27:33 ◼   ► I mean, and it kind of,

00:27:35 ◼   ► if you think about the Microsoft store

00:27:38 ◼   ► and how that is not true at a Microsoft store.

00:27:42 ◼   ► I mean, basically a Microsoft store

00:27:43 ◼   ► is pretty much a copy of an Apple store

00:27:45 ◼   ► and it's their consumer,

00:27:46 ◼   ► I mean, I guess maybe it's a good focus,

00:27:48 ◼   ► I mean, a good lens on their consumer business,

00:27:51 ◼   ► but it's not a good lens on the company in general

00:27:53 ◼   ► because most of their business is enterprise stuff.

00:27:57 ◼   ► - Right, and that's, you know,

00:27:58 ◼   ► I don't know that it has to be that way, and that the Microsoft stores might end up being

00:28:02 ◼   ► good for them. I don't know. I just think it—but again, Microsoft is not anywhere

00:28:08 ◼   ► near as easy as a company to understand as Apple.

00:28:11 ◼   ► Right. Right. They do a decent—I mean, I've only been up past—there's one up about

00:28:18 ◼   ► 45 minutes to an hour from here, and it's never as packed as an Apple store is on a

00:28:24 ◼   ► Saturday afternoon. But, and it's also, you know, it's right next to Redmond. So, I

00:28:30 ◼   ► mean, maybe that's got something to do with it. But, um, they do a decent, they do

00:28:34 ◼   ► a decent business in there. There's usually, I mean, you go by there on a Saturday

00:28:37 ◼   ► afternoon and, and it's, it's full and there are a number of people walking

00:28:42 ◼   ► around in there. I don't know how many people are buying things, but they at least have

00:28:45 ◼   ► people in there. Hey, I should hit the money button here. Hit the money button.

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00:29:18 ◼   ► rogue amoeba.com I can tell you right now right now my voice right now John is

00:29:24 ◼   ► being recorded by piezo and not coincidentally mine is also being

00:29:30 ◼   ► recorded by piezo piezo as opposed to piezo I say piezo or piezo eyes oh could

00:29:40 ◼   ► be pie okay we're gonna have to redo the whole show if I'm wrong I think you're

00:29:44 ◼   ► You're probably right.

00:29:45 ◼   ► P-I-E-Z-O.

00:29:46 ◼   ► P-I-E-Z-O.

00:29:47 ◼   ► Is that what you said, right?

00:29:49 ◼   ► Isn't it a lovely interface?

00:29:52 ◼   ► It really is.

00:29:53 ◼   ► You know what else?

00:29:54 ◼   ► I would say this.

00:29:55 ◼   ► And easy, too.

00:29:56 ◼   ► It is super easy.

00:29:57 ◼   ► It really is.

00:29:58 ◼   ► I could go on and on about it.

00:29:59 ◼   ► I will also say one of my favorite icons ever.

00:30:04 ◼   ► It has one of the best app icons I've ever seen.

00:30:08 ◼   ► I applaud almost any app icon that is not some sort of square thing with a pencil over

00:30:13 ◼   ► the top of it.

00:30:14 ◼   ► Yes, in blue. Half the reason I love the icon is that there's no...

00:30:20 ◼   ► there's not one pixel of blue in it. Yeah, it makes it stand out. I mean it's

00:30:26 ◼   ► completely... very noticeable in my doc. Well, that's a good segue into something I

00:30:34 ◼   ► wanted to talk about, and I want to talk about it because I don't know what

00:30:38 ◼   ► to write about it, because I really don't know what I think about yet. Like, I know

00:30:42 ◼   ► I know it's something, but I really just don't have my mind about it.

00:30:48 ◼   ► I don't have my mind made up about it, but it's Windows for ARM.

00:30:51 ◼   ► Windows for ARM has rules that are a lot like those of iOS, where the only apps you can install are Metro apps,

00:31:01 ◼   ► and they have to go through the Microsoft App Store, and the Metro APIs are all brand new,

00:31:09 ◼   ► and they're not, you can't run, you can't just recompile your existing

00:31:13 ◼   ► looks like Windows as we know it app, just hit a button and recompile it for

00:31:18 ◼   ► ARM

00:31:18 ◼   ► and have a version you can, it doesn't work like that, can't have it. So

00:31:22 ◼   ► last week it came out, I mean this isn't news that that's the way it's gonna be, but

00:31:27 ◼   ► Mozilla officially came out

00:31:29 ◼   ► as being in opposition to this that because they can't do

00:31:33 ◼   ► a full version of Firefox for Windows RT

00:31:37 ◼   ► making the argument that this not just is not the way it should be, but that it shouldn't

00:31:44 ◼   ► even be allowed to be this way because of all of the antitrust agreements Microsoft

00:31:49 ◼   ► has made due to the unpleasantness in the late 90s with the US Department of Justice

00:31:55 ◼   ► and I guess with Europe too.

00:32:01 ◼   ► And so I can totally see, I absolutely see why Mozilla would push in this direction,

00:32:08 ◼   ► because it's certainly in their interests to have Firefox, you know, to be able to do

00:32:13 ◼   ► a full version of Firefox for all versions of Windows.

00:32:17 ◼   ► So I don't fault them for pushing in this direction.

00:32:21 ◼   ► But I don't know, I tend to think, the way I lean is that Microsoft is actually, isn't

00:32:28 ◼   ► doing anything wrong here.

00:32:29 ◼   ► Right. Well, you had linked to a piece that indicated that most of that stuff is written in terms of that the restrictions were on Intel-based hardware.

00:32:40 ◼   ► Right.

00:32:41 ◼   ► So, and it seems to make more sense. I mean, if you think about the tablet market, it's obvious that Microsoft is not in a monopoly position in the tablet market.

00:32:50 ◼   ► So, it seems like this should be considered new territory.

00:32:57 ◼   ► Right, there's a couple of ways to look at it, and I think looking at it, and I

00:33:02 ◼   ► think the news was that Mozilla kind of cracked the seal on wanting to look at

00:33:07 ◼   ► this from a legal perspective, and not that they filed a lawsuit, I mean, and

00:33:11 ◼   ► and have gotten there yet, but they sort of at least like opened the door, and

00:33:17 ◼   ► that, you know, indicated that maybe, you know, maybe such a, you know, whether it

00:33:21 ◼   ► would be like a civil suit or whether it would be them petitioning the Department

00:33:25 ◼   ► of Justice or the European regulators to look into this,

00:33:28 ◼   ► but that legal action might end up being taken place.

00:33:32 ◼   ► But I actually think Microsoft might be on good ground

00:33:34 ◼   ► in this regard, because like you said,

00:33:36 ◼   ► that the actual findings of facts from 1999

00:33:39 ◼   ► and the great unpleasantness really do mention

00:33:41 ◼   ► over and over and over again, 30-some times,

00:33:44 ◼   ► Intel-compatible PC operating systems.

00:33:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the thing that you linked to

00:33:53 ◼   ► was specifically the Department of Justice settlement with Microsoft. So I

00:33:59 ◼   ► mean they may have a different issue with European situations. I mean maybe

00:34:04 ◼   ► maybe that's another right. And one of the things you know I remember this and

00:34:09 ◼   ► I wasn't writing during fireball at the time but I was certainly following the

00:34:12 ◼   ► tech industry just as obsessively you know and just in a pure layman's

00:34:16 ◼   ► understanding of antitrust law is that monopolies aren't illegal in and of

00:34:21 ◼   ► themselves. It's just that when you have a monopoly, you have to play by different

00:34:25 ◼   ► rules. So it's not that, "Hey, you have a monopoly, you've got to be busted up." No, it

00:34:30 ◼   ► doesn't work like that. But it's, "Hey, you have a monopoly, you can't do certain

00:34:34 ◼   ► things that you could do if you didn't have a monopoly." But there's all... it's

00:34:41 ◼   ► it's hard to... sometimes I think, especially in the computer industry, it's

00:34:45 ◼   ► really kind of hard. It depends how you divide something up to say whether

00:34:50 ◼   ► there's some things a monopoly or not. Like I think the old AT&T phone monopoly

00:34:54 ◼   ► in the US was as clear cases could be because if you wanted to call make a

00:34:59 ◼   ► call to somebody who didn't live in your town the one and only way to do it was

00:35:03 ◼   ► through AT&T and you paid whatever AT&T said you wanted to pay. I mean that's

00:35:09 ◼   ► about as classic of a monopoly as could be. I think that the old railroad

00:35:13 ◼   ► monopolies were as classic of monopolies you wanted. If you wanted to ship

00:35:17 ◼   ► something on a train from here to there had to go through these guys and there

00:35:22 ◼   ► were no other options but when you start talking I mean I've heard people I have

00:35:27 ◼   ► heard people endlessly talk about the fact that that like accuse Apple of

00:35:32 ◼   ► having a monopoly Mac OS that right that if you want a Mac you've got it you can

00:35:39 ◼   ► only buy an Apple computer and I don't think I think that that's I don't think

00:35:44 ◼   ► there's any I don't think that actually is how things work but right just from a

00:35:49 ◼   ► common sense standpoint like you said a couple minutes ago there's no I don't

00:35:52 ◼   ► see how anybody could argue that Microsoft's monopoly on PC operating

00:35:57 ◼   ► systems translates into tablets right that these that the machines that they

00:36:02 ◼   ► intend to put Windows RT on Microsoft not only doesn't have a monopoly they've

00:36:07 ◼   ► got like nothing they've got zip I mean they tried to they've tried to saw

00:36:12 ◼   ► Windows as a tablet operating system for years and it's just not done

00:36:17 ◼   ► anything. But also this is just, this is completely new architecture. But I do

00:36:22 ◼   ► it, I, you know, I have to say and I've, you know, it's one of those things

00:36:26 ◼   ► because I wasn't writing Daring Fireball at the time and so there's no, there's no

00:36:33 ◼   ► record. I can't prove it. But I really have to say I was never all that

00:36:39 ◼   ► comfortable with with the way that the terms that Microsoft ended up agreeing

00:36:44 ◼   ► to in the antitrust agreement I've never I always thought that it just I kind of

00:36:53 ◼   ► saw Microsoft side on it I do think that they did some things the way that they I

00:36:57 ◼   ► think the things that they did that were wrong and clearly were illegal and

00:37:00 ◼   ► deserve some sort of legal punishment were the the hardball tactics they took

00:37:06 ◼   ► where it was like, "Hey, you're going to do this." They'd go to Dell and say, "You're going to make

00:37:11 ◼   ► Internet Explorer the default browser, or we're not going to sell you any copies of Windows, period."

00:37:17 ◼   ► You know, that...

00:37:19 ◼   ► Right.

00:37:19 ◼   ► Right. And that's illegal because they can't... They needed... Dell needed licenses for Windows,

00:37:24 ◼   ► otherwise they'd go out of business. There were... While there were other, quote,

00:37:28 ◼   ► unquote, Intel PC operating systems, by the '90s, you couldn't make any money selling computers that

00:37:34 ◼   ► that had dead used them but I don't know that they should have been forced to

00:37:40 ◼   ► make some of these rules about windows and what they can do by default it

00:37:45 ◼   ► really does you know I always struck me as something that was gonna hamstring

00:37:48 ◼   ► them I think at the time I was just happy that you know anything I was happy

00:37:54 ◼   ► to see Microsoft get stuck by some right so I was you know certainly supportive

00:38:00 ◼   ► of it at the time but probably not from a real logical stamp right Blake first

00:38:04 ◼   ► very specifically, I remember, and this was like a huge point of contention in

00:38:07 ◼   ► the court proceedings, was Microsoft's argument that Internet Explorer was part

00:38:11 ◼   ► of the operating system. And it couldn't be, the way that it was made, it

00:38:17 ◼   ► couldn't be taken out. And I think that the slashdot crowd really saw no merit

00:38:29 ◼   ► to that argument whatsoever. Because at a technical level, it certainly didn't have

00:38:33 ◼   ► to be that way. You certainly didn't have to make the browser part of the operating

00:38:38 ◼   ► system. But I actually think Microsoft was right that Internet Explorer was part of the

00:38:44 ◼   ► operating system in the same way that WebKit is part of OS X and iOS. That it's, you

00:38:54 ◼   ► know, that they've…

00:38:55 ◼   ► Yeah. I think at the time I found that a convenient excuse. You know, they were trying to tie…

00:39:01 ◼   ► I mean, they were doing things like trying to make it the new Windows Explorer and that

00:39:05 ◼   ► kind of thing.

00:39:06 ◼   ► I thought that they were basically doing that in order to try to make it part of the operating

00:39:12 ◼   ► system so that they could use that as an excuse.

00:39:15 ◼   ► But I think in retrospect, some of that was just my lack of foresight as to where they

00:39:21 ◼   ► thought they were going with it.

00:39:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:24 ◼   ► But I think now, fast forward, flash forward, fast forward, I guess fast forward to the

00:39:30 ◼   ► present day. And it really, this whole argument really, to me, encapsulates the

00:39:38 ◼   ► incredible tables are turned position between Apple and Microsoft. You know,

00:39:45 ◼   ► where Apple's role in that whole late 90s Department of Justice investigation

00:39:51 ◼   ► against Microsoft was sort of, like the fact that Apple didn't go out of

00:39:56 ◼   ► business was like the best thing that ever happened to Microsoft, because they

00:40:00 ◼   ► could say, "Hey, we've got a competitor. Look at these guys, these Apple guys. They've got

00:40:04 ◼   ► five percent of the market, a totally different operating system."

00:40:08 ◼   ► And there was a...

00:40:09 ◼   ► Are they cute?

00:40:10 ◼   ► Right. And there was... I think that there was a... I think everybody is largely in agreement

00:40:14 ◼   ► that that was sort of Microsoft's motivation with the investment they made, the famous

00:40:20 ◼   ► on-stage appearance, Big Brother style behind Steve Jobs at the Macworld Expo where they

00:40:24 ◼   ► said, hey, we're going to invest a couple hundred million dollars in non-voting shares.

00:40:31 ◼   ► We're buying some shares that have no special class of shares that doesn't give us any control

00:40:35 ◼   ► over Apple.

00:40:36 ◼   ► We just want to support the company.

00:40:38 ◼   ► And we're committing to make a great version of Internet Explorer for the Mac.

00:40:44 ◼   ► Apple's going to make it their default browser.

00:40:46 ◼   ► And we're committing ourselves right here in public to the next version of Microsoft

00:40:52 ◼   ► Office, which is going to be fully compatible with Windows Office, which all of it was true,

00:40:58 ◼   ► right?

00:40:59 ◼   ► The Internet Explorer was a good Mac browser at the time.

00:41:03 ◼   ► Office was compatible, and it really did, I think, you know, at the time, it really

00:41:08 ◼   ► was essential.

00:41:09 ◼   ► I don't know that Apple would have gone out of business if Microsoft had canceled Office

00:41:13 ◼   ► for Mac, but it certainly would have hurt a company.

00:41:16 ◼   ► It's a big appearance.

00:41:17 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a big appearance thing.

00:41:19 ◼   ► There were certainly a sizable number of Mac users who, if they couldn't have had a version

00:41:25 ◼   ► of Office, maybe couldn't have been, you know, would have had to switch to a Windows PC.

00:41:33 ◼   ► It's funny how big a deal that was back then.

00:41:35 ◼   ► I think about that sometimes, how big an Office suite meant in the '90s.

00:41:40 ◼   ► It was a huge deal because it really was, I think at a very basic level, it was the

00:41:45 ◼   ► reason that people had computers.

00:41:47 ◼   ► Right.

00:41:48 ◼   ► I guess we just we printed a lot more back then.

00:41:51 ◼   ► Printed a lot more.

00:41:52 ◼   ► Printing was a huge deal.

00:41:57 ◼   ► Now sometimes my printer, the yellow light blinks because there's something in it.

00:42:01 ◼   ► It's like a month.

00:42:02 ◼   ► The only time I realize it is when I go to print a boarding pass for my next flight.

00:42:09 ◼   ► For a long time, our main printer has been in my office, and my wife is the only one

00:42:14 ◼   ► that uses it.

00:42:15 ◼   ► I mean it's still every time it fires up it scares me. Yeah, I get I get startled by the noise

00:42:21 ◼   ► And I actually had to turn it off in order to do this podcast

00:42:25 ◼   ► That is this is your wife a printer. She prints more than I do. She prints stuff. Yeah, that's more than I do

00:42:32 ◼   ► Yeah, she's a Karen's just a crazy

00:42:34 ◼   ► Yeah, she will do things like and and smart stuff to like if we're going on a vacation or something

00:42:40 ◼   ► She'll print like an itinerary with all the basic information

00:42:43 ◼   ► And so yeah because I and I just think well it's in my phone somewhere and so like I'll just sit there like a jerk and

00:42:50 ◼   ► Spend 20 minutes trying to find a confirmation code while I'm at the hotel checkout desk

00:42:54 ◼   ► Whereas she's just got like eight pieces of paper that have everything you could want to know right there

00:42:58 ◼   ► But yeah, I mean a couple months a couple months ago

00:43:01 ◼   ► We went skiing and she you know was smart enough to have the foresight to know that we were driving up into the mountains

00:43:06 ◼   ► And would not get good

00:43:08 ◼   ► Cell coverage and so she printed out the the directions and you know and sure enough we got

00:43:13 ◼   ► You know we were like we were just about lost at one point, and I'm like I have no I'm completely

00:43:19 ◼   ► Clueless because I have no cell connection right that's it's you

00:43:24 ◼   ► It's like you're you and I are again exactly in the same boat because I would never think that I've to me printing directions is

00:43:30 ◼   ► Something I did when I was a kid right. It's not something Amanda has today

00:43:34 ◼   ► Got an iPhone

00:43:38 ◼   ► But I do it this really to me highlights the difference between Apple and Microsoft's competitive positions where clearly I

00:43:44 ◼   ► Really don't think that this is even a matter for dispute. This isn't being an Apple fanboy or anything. I mean

00:43:50 ◼   ► Windows RT is chasing iOS. I

00:43:53 ◼   ► Mean and it's going to be

00:43:56 ◼   ► You know that the other thing they're doing is

00:44:00 ◼   ► The next version of Windows Phone is going to be based on the big boy version of Windows. It's going to be a

00:44:07 ◼   ► It's a serious of Paul throat throughout had a good piece

00:44:11 ◼   ► About it just last week. I linked to but

00:44:14 ◼   ► You know, it's a big deal for developers

00:44:17 ◼   ► It's you know, it's gonna look the metro UI will be mostly the same but it's a real significant under-the-hood thing where it's not a

00:44:23 ◼   ► Grown-up version of the old Windows Mobile. It's a cut-down version of Windows 8

00:44:28 ◼   ► And

00:44:31 ◼   ► I think Apple again, there's there's legal arguments and there's technical arguments and the technical side

00:44:37 ◼   ► I think, you know, people have cooled down and it's no longer nobody's as hot under the collar

00:44:43 ◼   ► as they used to be about the App Store rules. There's just the basic idea, not the exceptional

00:44:49 ◼   ► cases where it's, you know, there's some kind of edge case rejection, but just the basic idea that

00:44:56 ◼   ► apps go through the App Store, they're all reviewed. And there's a lot of things, you know,

00:45:02 ◼   ► you've got to play within a tight set of sandbox rules

00:45:05 ◼   ► that keep your app from running amok.

00:45:08 ◼   ► You don't have background privilege

00:45:10 ◼   ► or you have very limited background privileges.

00:45:12 ◼   ► You can't see the whole file system.

00:45:15 ◼   ► You can only see your own data.

00:45:17 ◼   ► >> The sandboxing does still get people,

00:45:22 ◼   ► developers hot under the collar.

00:45:24 ◼   ► >> Well, and it's a different issue on the Mac though.

00:45:26 ◼   ► And part of that, it really highlights,

00:45:28 ◼   ► and I think it shows the problems Microsoft's gonna have

00:45:30 ◼   ► forward is that it was a huge advantage to Apple to say this is a new

00:45:36 ◼   ► thing, this is iOS, and here are the rules and it's all, you know, in fact they

00:45:43 ◼   ► started with literally, here's the, you know, in 2007, five years ago they said

00:45:48 ◼   ► here's your phone running iOS, it has no apps. Like, they started

00:45:54 ◼   ► from a point where third-party developers were told, you know, you can

00:45:58 ◼   ► write a web page. And so they grew from there and so the App Store with all of

00:46:04 ◼   ► its limitations was you know the proverbial glass of ice water in hell

00:46:10 ◼   ► compared to not having any app, third-party apps at all. Whereas trying to

00:46:16 ◼   ► impose these rules on the Mac where developers were pretty much free to, if

00:46:22 ◼   ► if you could make it and it runs, you can do it. Put it on your website, people

00:46:27 ◼   ► download it and you know whether it's an app that sticks to our recommended

00:46:31 ◼   ► guidelines or whether it's you know some kind of kernel kernel plug-in that

00:46:40 ◼   ► implements you know low-level stuff that could freeze the whole machine you can

00:46:45 ◼   ► install it if you want right but do you think they'll always allow that on the

00:46:53 ◼   ► Mac? I do. I don't I really I seriously do. The question I think the bigger

00:46:58 ◼   ► question is how long does the Mac stay around? I mean is the Mac still around

00:47:02 ◼   ► 10 years from now? You know 15 years from now? That's the bigger question but

00:47:06 ◼   ► as long as there are Macs I think that that stays. I think and I I I've talked

00:47:13 ◼   ► to people at Apple about it and you know you never know again you can't you know

00:47:17 ◼   ► it's not like they're gonna divulge if they really had a secret plan to to take

00:47:22 ◼   ► that away in Mac OS 10.9, Ocelot, or whatever they're going to call it.

00:47:29 ◼   ► It's not like they would necessarily tell me even in confidence, but just the conversations

00:47:33 ◼   ► I've had with people makes me – I really believe it.

00:47:38 ◼   ► And that's also why I don't believe any kind of stories about iOS and OS X merging,

00:47:43 ◼   ► that there's going to be one OS that – I just don't – there may be similarities,

00:47:50 ◼   ► To me, it's fundamental to the way it works.

00:47:53 ◼   ► It's like once you start with something,

00:47:55 ◼   ► like a set of rules for a game,

00:47:56 ◼   ► it's almost like changing the rules of a game.

00:48:00 ◼   ► Like you just can't change them that much.

00:48:02 ◼   ► Like you can't go in now and say baseball,

00:48:07 ◼   ► you can't be, there's no more left-handed batters

00:48:09 ◼   ► because it's too big of an advantage

00:48:11 ◼   ► because they start four feet closer to first base

00:48:14 ◼   ► than right-handed batters.

00:48:15 ◼   ► So now everybody has to bat from the right side.

00:48:17 ◼   ► Well, you can't do that now.

00:48:18 ◼   ► It might make some kind of logical sense,

00:48:19 ◼   ► but you can't do it.

00:48:22 ◼   ► It's too late.

00:48:22 ◼   ► That's probably a bad example.

00:48:29 ◼   ► - I could, oh, but you know,

00:48:31 ◼   ► I could see Selig doing that.

00:48:32 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:48:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, you know what, I shouldn't say that.

00:48:35 ◼   ► I shouldn't have.

00:48:36 ◼   ► - That sounds like him.

00:48:39 ◼   ► - But I just think, though,

00:48:40 ◼   ► I think one of the reasons that everybody's cooled down

00:48:42 ◼   ► about the iOS rules is that it's clearly worked,

00:48:45 ◼   ► that it has proven to be wildly popular,

00:48:49 ◼   ► and it's

00:48:50 ◼   ► hard even for us even for the type of geeks who

00:48:55 ◼   ► like

00:48:57 ◼   ► i_o_s_ and love their ipads and and love their iphones

00:49:01 ◼   ► uh...

00:49:03 ◼   ► it's hard for us

00:49:04 ◼   ► to and i know it's hard for me to understand how regular people

00:49:09 ◼   ► see computers

00:49:10 ◼   ► people who just that they're

00:49:12 ◼   ► they just really have very little understanding of what the hell is

00:49:15 ◼   ► actually going on

00:49:16 ◼   ► And I just think that you just cannot, there's no way to overstate

00:49:21 ◼   ► the relief that they see

00:49:23 ◼   ► when they're using iPads and iPhones where they feel like they can't screw

00:49:27 ◼   ► anything up.

00:49:28 ◼   ► There's no way to screw it up.

00:49:30 ◼   ► There's nothing you can do

00:49:32 ◼   ► that is going to render this thing

00:49:34 ◼   ► you know broken just by installing software or clicking the wrong button or

00:49:39 ◼   ► something like that.

00:49:40 ◼   ► Which is, you know, and it's a problem on the Mac, you know, that you can

00:49:45 ◼   ► buy stuff and install too much crap in your menu bar that's always running and

00:49:48 ◼   ► all of a sudden safari is slow

00:49:52 ◼   ► i think it's a huge relief

00:49:54 ◼   ► and it's like a peace of mind and i think it's a huge part of the ipads

00:50:00 ◼   ► success

00:50:01 ◼   ► in the market like why people are

00:50:03 ◼   ► buying ipads and using them instead of using laptops uh...

00:50:07 ◼   ► is that these rules

00:50:09 ◼   ► are good for people and it's not the point is not in this you know i i do see

00:50:13 ◼   ► the Free Software Foundation, you know, I see their argument that you don't want all computers

00:50:19 ◼   ► to have this rule, but all computers don't have these rules, right? It's just this huge opportunity,

00:50:24 ◼   ► you know, there was this huge opportunity that Apple was the first to take to make computers

00:50:29 ◼   ► that had these rules. And it's not supposed to be for everybody. It's not, you know, all computers

00:50:34 ◼   ► shouldn't have those rules. But most, I think, should. And I think it's, I just don't, I can't

00:50:41 ◼   ► see how Microsoft should be disallowed from following that with Windows or you know and

00:50:47 ◼   ► again this is another one of those things where I and I personally always attribute it to Balmer

00:50:53 ◼   ► but that this idea that everything has to be called Windows has got to have Windows in the name

00:50:58 ◼   ► somewhere. That's I mean I kind of think that's really holding them back and so many regards.

00:51:03 ◼   ► I mean the names the names become increasingly ridiculous just from a you know the way they sound

00:51:10 ◼   ► because they keep putting different things on the end of Windows.

00:51:14 ◼   ► But also just from a branding perspective

00:51:18 ◼   ► I think people are sort of tired of it.

00:51:22 ◼   ► Maybe that's just from a Mac user perspective, but it doesn't

00:51:26 ◼   ► I mean, having the Xbox not name something Windows

00:51:30 ◼   ► I think is a great advantage for it.

00:51:34 ◼   ► Oh, absolutely, and I think that Xbox is the best

00:51:38 ◼   ► the best example and the bet is it's the only that's the best counter and it's the only saying

00:51:42 ◼   ► that we need to slap windows on everything exactly and it's the best even if and i presume again i've

00:51:47 ◼   ► never i don't i certainly haven't written an xbox game but i i presume and i i i think that it's this

00:51:53 ◼   ► is actually true that writing games for the xbox is largely or at least in many ways similar to

00:52:00 ◼   ► writing games for Windows.

00:52:02 ◼   ► You know, that if you're good at writing,

00:52:04 ◼   ► you know, like id software type games,

00:52:09 ◼   ► you know, Quake and those type of games,

00:52:12 ◼   ► for the PC on Windows, that a lot of the techniques you use

00:52:17 ◼   ► and the code you use can be reused on Xbox.

00:52:19 ◼   ► You know, that so, in the same way that iOS and OS X share

00:52:23 ◼   ► these fundamental technologies, the Xbox does too,

00:52:25 ◼   ► but they just don't call it that.

00:52:28 ◼   ► - Right.

00:52:29 ◼   ► And I do think that that really hurts.

00:52:31 ◼   ► And I think it hurts them in this argument.

00:52:33 ◼   ► And I see people who are,

00:52:35 ◼   ► I see that there's a lot of people

00:52:36 ◼   ► supporting the Mozilla argument

00:52:38 ◼   ► that they shouldn't be allowed to do this for Windows RT.

00:52:42 ◼   ► And again, it does kinda stink.

00:52:46 ◼   ► And there's trade-offs.

00:52:48 ◼   ► Nobody's saying that these rules like in the App Store

00:52:51 ◼   ► and the way that they wanna run Windows RT,

00:52:53 ◼   ► that there aren't downsides to these rules.

00:52:58 ◼   ► I think clearly the fact that Macs and PCs can run alternate browsers that can be set

00:53:03 ◼   ► as the default, that there's been way more innovation in the browser space because of

00:53:08 ◼   ► Firefox and Google Chrome and all the WebKit type stuff than there would have been otherwise.

00:53:17 ◼   ► Maybe somebody else is going to come out with a browser for mobile devices that iPhone users

00:53:22 ◼   ► are going to be left out in a cold front because they can't install it from the App Store.

00:53:26 ◼   ► It's possible.

00:53:27 ◼   ► You know, it seems silly to think that WebKit, mobile WebKit, is always going to be the preeminent

00:53:33 ◼   ► browser engine.

00:53:34 ◼   ► Right.

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00:54:25 ◼   ► so you're with me on this that you think that that

00:54:28 ◼   ► that the uh...

00:54:29 ◼   ► windows r_t_ the restrictions on windows r_t_ are reasonable

00:54:33 ◼   ► if if not

00:54:34 ◼   ► yeah i don't think i mean i don't think there's any way that you could look at

00:54:37 ◼   ► i mean you can't

00:54:38 ◼   ► it seems like if you look at the letter of the agreement

00:54:41 ◼   ► in and of itself that it's clear that it's

00:54:44 ◼   ► focused on intel based hardware

00:54:46 ◼   ► and

00:54:47 ◼   ► and then from a

00:54:48 ◼   ► purely

00:54:49 ◼   ► rational aspect of looking at the market, they have no monopoly over the tablet market.

00:54:55 ◼   ► So that agreement does not really apply.

00:55:01 ◼   ► And it sort of seems like, I mean, the guy from Mozilla who was, he's a lawyer, so he's

00:55:09 ◼   ► looking at it from a legal perspective, and he seemed to be saying, I mean, he did seem

00:55:14 ◼   ► like they might be taking action or trying to take action, but he also seemed to be sort

00:55:18 ◼   ► of insinuating that it was against the spirit of the law of the settlement, which, you know,

00:55:26 ◼   ► maybe you can make that case, but companies aren't bound by the spirit of a settlement,

00:55:34 ◼   ► really, bound by the law.

00:55:38 ◼   ► And you can't really fault them.

00:55:39 ◼   ► I mean, Apple would do the same thing.

00:55:42 ◼   ► Right.

00:55:43 ◼   ► I completely agree.

00:55:46 ◼   ► But I think it's going to be fascinating to see how it plays out.

00:55:48 ◼   ► And I really do think, and it's, you know, the Shakespeare quote, "A rose by any other

00:55:54 ◼   ► name would smell just as nice," whatever the hell he said.

00:55:58 ◼   ► What the hell, Shakespeare, you can rewrite the guy.

00:56:04 ◼   ► I really think it would make a difference if it were called Metro OS.

00:56:08 ◼   ► You know, I always, that's my idea.

00:56:11 ◼   ► My free consultation to them is that they should call Windows for ARM Metro OS or just

00:56:16 ◼   ► Metro.

00:56:17 ◼   ► Just say this is Metro and you can get it on your phones, you can get it on your tablets,

00:56:21 ◼   ► you can even get it on a laptop.

00:56:25 ◼   ► And if it's under the hood, the Windows kernel and all of this code that's exactly the same

00:56:32 ◼   ► as Windows, more power to them.

00:56:35 ◼   ► That's an engineering win where you're not duplicating effort but you don't brand.

00:56:39 ◼   ► And I'm telling you, if they did that, I think that their argument would carry a lot less

00:56:43 ◼   ► weight.

00:56:45 ◼   ► It's just another reason why I think that the argument doesn't carry weight, is if they

00:56:48 ◼   ► just change the name of the thing, it seems like all the logic doesn't apply.

00:56:52 ◼   ► How can they have a monopoly with an operating system that isn't even out yet?

00:56:56 ◼   ► For devices...

00:56:57 ◼   ► It is a little weird.

00:56:58 ◼   ► I mean, we probably agree on this too, but the fact that they still have the full desktop

00:57:04 ◼   ► experience, and that they will ship a full version of Office for Windows RT and whatever

00:57:15 ◼   ► other applications that Microsoft deems worthy of getting a pass.

00:57:22 ◼   ► And having used Windows 8, it's the whole switching back and forth between Metro and

00:57:29 ◼   ► the traditional Windows desktop is a jarring experience.

00:57:33 ◼   ► And that I don't understand.

00:57:36 ◼   ► And I think you've posted this before too, though.

00:57:38 ◼   ► But just the fact, I mean, they should have jettisoned

00:57:43 ◼   ► the Windows desktop on ARM.

00:57:47 ◼   ► That would have made a lot more sense.

00:57:48 ◼   ► - Right, and I just feel, it's just another one

00:57:50 ◼   ► of those things where there's trade-offs, you know?

00:57:53 ◼   ► And everybody knows, everybody is at least halfway

00:57:55 ◼   ► a geek, knows that it can be frustrating

00:57:58 ◼   ► on the iPhone, especially on the iPad.

00:58:00 ◼   ► I think it's more of a deal on the iPad

00:58:02 ◼   ► because you can work on the iPad.

00:58:05 ◼   ► And sometimes you just feel like,

00:58:06 ◼   ► I wish I could just get a list of all the files

00:58:09 ◼   ► on this thing.

00:58:10 ◼   ► Just show me a list of all these files

00:58:12 ◼   ► and let me just drag, take this one and say,

00:58:14 ◼   ► I wanna open this one in that app.

00:58:16 ◼   ► Or I wanna take this file and send it to my Mac at home.

00:58:21 ◼   ► And sometimes the fact that there is no,

00:58:24 ◼   ► the equivalent of a finder,

00:58:25 ◼   ► whether it looked like the finder or not,

00:58:27 ◼   ► but that there's no app that's like that, it's frustrating.

00:58:31 ◼   ► But there's a simplicity win, though,

00:58:33 ◼   ► that if it isn't even there, then every app

00:58:37 ◼   ► has to kind of encapsulate its data in a simpler way.

00:58:43 ◼   ► Like the fact that it's not there,

00:58:44 ◼   ► and that developers can't say, well, just go to Explorer

00:58:47 ◼   ► and change the file extension, and it should fix itself.

00:58:50 ◼   ► That if you don't even have the option of telling your users

00:58:52 ◼   ► that you've got to do the work to present the data

00:58:57 ◼   ► in a simpler way.

00:58:58 ◼   ► I do think that it is gonna be,

00:59:01 ◼   ► I think it just seems crazy that you can get

00:59:04 ◼   ► this brand new tablet with this fancy, lovely looking,

00:59:09 ◼   ► whether it's something you really wanna use all the time,

00:59:13 ◼   ► I think it's up for debate, Metro.

00:59:16 ◼   ► But it looks nice, and it certainly looks new,

00:59:18 ◼   ► and it certainly doesn't look like anything

00:59:20 ◼   ► Windows has ever done before.

00:59:21 ◼   ► And then all of a sudden you hit the Explorer button

00:59:23 ◼   ► and you're in Windows 7 all over again.

00:59:27 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:59:29 ◼   ► Which I sort of take that as a compliment to us

00:59:34 ◼   ► that we all seem to like,

00:59:35 ◼   ► lots of Mac users have said that they like

00:59:37 ◼   ► the Metro interface and so there.

00:59:41 ◼   ► We weren't just knee-jerk Apple apologists

00:59:46 ◼   ► for all those years where we said we hated Windows,

00:59:47 ◼   ► we really hated Windows.

00:59:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, I totally agree with that.

00:59:51 ◼   ► totally agree with that

00:59:52 ◼   ► uh... you know i just like nice things that's what i've always said i'd just

00:59:55 ◼   ► like nice things and it just happens to be that

00:59:58 ◼   ► a lot of these companies never make nice things

01:00:02 ◼   ► what else we got here the wall street journal confirmed today or not

01:00:05 ◼   ► they did they they left themselves in wiggle room

01:00:08 ◼   ► but they said that uh... apple is going to switch to four inch iphone displays

01:00:12 ◼   ► the rain luck and euro or saw one reporting for the wall street journal

01:00:17 ◼   ► as uh... the new iphone that apple incorporated is expected to unveil this

01:00:21 ◼   ► year is likely to have a larger display than its current models have

01:00:25 ◼   ► with the company ordering bigger screens from its asian suppliers people familiar

01:00:29 ◼   ► with the matter

01:00:32 ◼   ► we would like to see if we ever form a band

01:00:35 ◼   ► we're talking before the show that may be doing a song

01:00:38 ◼   ► i don't know i'd

01:00:39 ◼   ► and we'll wait on another episode

01:00:41 ◼   ► but if we do

01:00:42 ◼   ► i think maybe a name for our band people familiar with the matter

01:00:46 ◼   ► Yeah, no, that's a good name for a band

01:00:48 ◼   ► Or a band of by people who do maybe media criticism

01:00:54 ◼   ► All the songs will be about media criticism I

01:00:58 ◼   ► Feel like are you looking at the the the the one that has the picture of the guy holding the white iPhone

01:01:04 ◼   ► I think so. I think that was what it was. Yeah, he's only got four fingers. No, I didn't see that

01:01:08 ◼   ► That's true

01:01:13 ◼   ► It's got a thumb and three fingers. I think he's one of the Simpson kids

01:01:16 ◼   ► You know, I had a conversation with Jonas about that about why why do so many cartoon characters only have

01:01:23 ◼   ► Three fingers and a thumb. Yeah, and he did not buy my explanation that it's easier to draw and

01:01:29 ◼   ► And looks better

01:01:32 ◼   ► He's well, did he have an alternate explanation? No, he thinks that I'm hiding the truth from you know that

01:01:40 ◼   ► He's not buying that

01:01:43 ◼   ► Huh

01:01:45 ◼   ► There was an episode. I believe there was an episode where of The Simpsons where Homer imagined what his kids would look like

01:01:51 ◼   ► If they were regular they were actual

01:01:54 ◼   ► And he said something about five-fingered freaks and they showed they showed a picture of them drawing more more normal looking

01:02:01 ◼   ► And I believe he I believe he cried out in terror. I do see this picture of the guy holding the white iPhone

01:02:09 ◼   ► Yeah, which is a normal. You know that's the way right that he's got his index

01:02:13 ◼   ► I don't behind it yeah the index fingers just in but it's completely yeah, but it you know it does look like he's got four fingers

01:02:19 ◼   ► Like maybe he was got caught shoplifting in Singapore or something which of you

01:02:27 ◼   ► That would suck to it wouldn't it suck if they if if you got caught shoplifting in one of these countries

01:02:35 ◼   ► When you're gonna lose a finger and they go right for the index finger

01:02:38 ◼   ► instead of the pinky. Oh, that would be terrible. And then if you gripe, I bet they're like,

01:02:44 ◼   ► "You're lucky we didn't take the thumb."

01:02:45 ◼   ► Exactly. Oh, man. Can you imagine taking the thumb? That's one of my worst. That's one

01:02:51 ◼   ► of my worst.

01:02:52 ◼   ► Yeah, that is.

01:02:53 ◼   ► I mean, because then you're just not even human anymore.

01:02:55 ◼   ► Well, you remember a couple of months ago when I had that goofy finger injury.

01:02:59 ◼   ► Oh, yeah. That's right. That happened.

01:03:01 ◼   ► And I had that cast or brace on all the way up to my elbow, but I still had my thumb.

01:03:07 ◼   ► And it was incredibly frustrating to have my whole left hand in this thing and be unable

01:03:15 ◼   ► to use any of my fingers for a couple of weeks.

01:03:18 ◼   ► But the fact that I still had the thumb was surprisingly useful.

01:03:23 ◼   ► Surprisingly useful.

01:03:24 ◼   ► And I just remember thinking, "If I didn't have that thumb, I would be..."

01:03:29 ◼   ► I mean, I could...

01:03:30 ◼   ► It was hard, but if I had something in my right hand, I could...

01:03:33 ◼   ► With that thumb, I could eventually open a doorknob.

01:03:36 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, I noticed also think about how hard it is for my dog. I mean the dog does not have thumbs and

01:03:43 ◼   ► Just the way he has to the way he has to hold something. He's chewing them

01:03:47 ◼   ► True that's no life

01:03:51 ◼   ► That's no way to live

01:03:53 ◼   ► we'd like to think that we're so smart and that

01:03:56 ◼   ► We've you know, we've got these great minds that have separated us from the rest of the animal kingdom

01:04:03 ◼   ► But really all we've got are good thumbs right if he had thumbs he could replace me in our right

01:04:07 ◼   ► God imagine if the dolphins had thumbs oh

01:04:11 ◼   ► We would be man. We have to be so screwed

01:04:16 ◼   ► We're already not the smartest species on the planet right I they would just be able to better prove it right or

01:04:23 ◼   ► Elephants imagine if elephants had thumbs yeah, they could really kick some ass

01:04:30 ◼   ► The orangutans, so like there's a I mean, this is a stupid

01:04:33 ◼   ► story but

01:04:35 ◼   ► Orangutans using iPads. I saw that where I didn't read it though. I saw it and we're like what I didn't read it either

01:04:41 ◼   ► But they're like one step away from Planet of the Apes

01:04:43 ◼   ► You give those orangutans iPads and were you know, right now they're like communicating and stuff right? They're making plans

01:04:51 ◼   ► They're gonna get on Facebook

01:04:53 ◼   ► they're gonna start talking to each other and

01:04:56 ◼   ► then and then

01:04:58 ◼   ► The next thing you know

01:05:00 ◼   ► You're running through the brush with Charlton Heston

01:05:02 ◼   ► This four inch iPhone thing I've talked about this before and I've heard whispers about it. I still don't know that it's certain nobody

01:05:09 ◼   ► Apple it people used to tell me things at Apple and now they don't tell me anymore

01:05:13 ◼   ► I don't think that I think they've gotten way more secretive than before

01:05:16 ◼   ► And I've I've been saying this to people I've had a lot of people ask me after Steve Jobs died

01:05:22 ◼   ► Do you think Apple's gonna know maybe open up a little bit more?

01:05:24 ◼   ► I honestly I for everything I've observed over the last nine months or maybe even call it a year

01:05:29 ◼   ► because I think clearly Jobs started winding down his management before he

01:05:35 ◼   ► actually retired. I think they've only gotten more secretive in my

01:05:40 ◼   ► experience. But the thing I've heard is that if they go to a

01:05:46 ◼   ► four-inch, it's gonna stay the same width and they're just gonna make it taller

01:05:50 ◼   ► and it's gonna have the same pixel density. In other words, the same number

01:05:54 ◼   ► pixels print. So they're gonna add more pixels, make a more like a

01:05:59 ◼   ► wider screen display or a taller screen display, whatever you want to

01:06:03 ◼   ► call it. And that, you know, well what about developers? Developers, you know,

01:06:09 ◼   ► assume that this exact pixel count, but that there already are things like when

01:06:13 ◼   ► you're on a phone call and you have like a double height status bar. You're

01:06:19 ◼   ► already supposed to make your app a little bit flexible in that dimension.

01:06:25 ◼   ► You know, and apparently some some apps don't do that as well as others. They

01:06:29 ◼   ► don't shrink. They just let that green double-sized status bar take up space.

01:06:35 ◼   ► But I think that that's, you know, that's the answer. Because I don't think the

01:06:41 ◼   ► other thing is I don't think that they want to make a physically bigger phone.

01:06:45 ◼   ► Like, to me, what's ridiculous with the Android giant phones is not the fact that the screen

01:06:51 ◼   ► is bigger.

01:06:52 ◼   ► A bigger screen is better in general for a phone, but bigger devices are worse.

01:06:58 ◼   ► To me, that's the tradeoff involved.

01:07:01 ◼   ► Bigger screen, yes, terrific.

01:07:03 ◼   ► Bigger device, heavier, takes up more space in your pocket, harder to hold in one hand,

01:07:08 ◼   ► not good.

01:07:09 ◼   ► So, you know.

01:07:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:11 ◼   ► But if they can keep the device the same size and devote more of the front face to the screen,

01:07:18 ◼   ► why not?

01:07:22 ◼   ► Because I'm holding my iPhone in my hand right now, and I can comfortably – well, not completely

01:07:27 ◼   ► comfortably – but I can touch all four corners with my thumb.

01:07:31 ◼   ► And if it gets – well, maybe if it gets taller, actually, I think I could.

01:07:35 ◼   ► Right.

01:07:36 ◼   ► Especially if you think –

01:07:37 ◼   ► That upper corner, maybe.

01:07:38 ◼   ► I mean, that one, but still, pretty close.

01:07:40 ◼   ► And if it were half of it were at the top, half the extra pixels were at the top and

01:07:43 ◼   ► half were at the bottom.

01:07:47 ◼   ► To me, I don't think it really would make that big of a difference.

01:07:49 ◼   ► It might be a little bit harder to get to the corner.

01:07:52 ◼   ► But I mean, I think Apple clearly, you know, is aware of that.

01:07:55 ◼   ► Everybody knows that they take these phones out.

01:07:57 ◼   ► I'm sure if you went to any beer garden in the San Jose area, greater Cupertino area,

01:08:03 ◼   ► you could see dozens of these phones being used recklessly and left behind on barstools,

01:08:09 ◼   ► night of the week. I mean, they famously test these things. You know, they're not going

01:08:13 ◼   ► to make it so big that you can't, that it's harder to get corner to corner.

01:08:17 ◼   ► They probably, I bet they have a case that makes it look like a Galaxy tab or a Galaxy note.

01:08:22 ◼   ► The stylus on the side.

01:08:27 ◼   ► So I think it's totally believable. What I would not believe would be if these reports

01:08:31 ◼   ► were coming out saying that Apple is going to make a phone that is a lot bigger, physically

01:08:35 ◼   ► bigger. You know everything I've heard is that if they go to a bigger screen it's

01:08:41 ◼   ► bigger in that one dimension. Same physical size, taller screen. Right and I've also

01:08:45 ◼   ► talked about this that the way that they make these screens is they make I mean

01:08:51 ◼   ► again I'm you know I could be talking out of my ass here but my understanding

01:08:55 ◼   ► is the way LCD screens are made is that they make big big sheets of these things

01:08:59 ◼   ► and they find sec they identify sections that are known you know that don't have

01:09:03 ◼   ► dead pixels and then they cut cut them to size so it's like you know like

01:09:09 ◼   ► imagine a big sheet of paper and then you just cut little three and a half

01:09:13 ◼   ► inch rectangles out of it and boom here's an iPhone screen here's an iPhone

01:09:17 ◼   ► screen so if they the way that they would make these screens is they would

01:09:20 ◼   ► be using the exact same sheets as the current iPhone retina display and they

01:09:25 ◼   ► would just be cutting slightly taller rectangles out of them and if you think

01:09:30 ◼   ► Think of that, you know—

01:09:31 ◼   ► That sounds crazy.

01:09:33 ◼   ► That sounds crazy.

01:09:34 ◼   ► I mean, you're probably right.

01:09:35 ◼   ► I mean, because I know nothing about that, but that just sounds like you're making

01:09:38 ◼   ► taffy.

01:09:40 ◼   ► I think it sort of is.

01:09:41 ◼   ► And so from an economies of scale perspective and this sort of—

01:09:46 ◼   ► Right.

01:09:47 ◼   ► —the Tim Cook—

01:09:48 ◼   ► You don't have to retool anything.

01:09:50 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:09:51 ◼   ► You just—you wait another nanosecond as the thing's coming through and then you—

01:09:54 ◼   ► Right.

01:09:55 ◼   ► From a Tim Cook operational genius perspective, it makes a lot of sense.

01:09:59 ◼   ► Right.

01:10:00 ◼   ► And that's also the argument behind the – it's the exact same argument behind the

01:10:05 ◼   ► rumored 7.82568-inch iPad.

01:10:12 ◼   ► You know, this –

01:10:13 ◼   ► Oh, is it just the other way?

01:10:14 ◼   ► Well, it would be the – if you took the iPhone 3GS screen, the classic pre-retina

01:10:26 ◼   ► iPhone LCD.

01:10:30 ◼   ► And you took that exact LCD, but imagine it as a big sheet the size of a table.

01:10:36 ◼   ► And you cut a 1024 by 768 pixel rectangle out of it.

01:10:41 ◼   ► It comes out to be exactly 7.82 inches or something like that, which is exactly the

01:10:48 ◼   ► rumored size of the smaller iPod.

01:10:51 ◼   ► So in other words, these LCD screens that Apple has been producing ever since the first

01:10:57 ◼   ► iPhone, because that's – the 3GS has the exact same LCD display as the original iPhone

01:11:04 ◼   ► that they're still making today and still is apparently a pretty popular phone.

01:11:08 ◼   ► It's like the third most popular phone at AT&T.

01:11:12 ◼   ► They don't have to make a new display for a smaller iPad.

01:11:15 ◼   ► They just have to cut bigger size out of the displays that they're already making.

01:11:20 ◼   ► right and a presumably that would be you know by apples standards super cheap

01:11:25 ◼   ► because they've got you know it's old technology you know it's pre retinoids

01:11:29 ◼   ► right right you ever tried one of these supersized phones no I've I've got the

01:11:38 ◼   ► you've got it you've got a couple of what you've got a Windows Lumi I got the

01:11:45 ◼   ► loop but I have the Lumi oh you have Lumi I have the Lumi 800 though not the

01:11:48 ◼   ► 900 which is not the one it's on sale but it's I love it I like it better and

01:11:52 ◼   ► I've I've I've tried the 900 I think the 800 is better I like what I really do

01:11:58 ◼   ► because it's more comfortable in my hand it's it is very very roughly it is

01:12:04 ◼   ► iPhone sized more or less but like this rumored 4-inch iPhone it's got a 3.7

01:12:11 ◼   ► inch screen it's a because it's 16 to 9 so it's taller it's got a you know more

01:12:17 ◼   ► of the front, a little bit more of the front face is devoted to the screen than on the

01:12:21 ◼   ► iPhone. And I find that nothing but pleasing. But it fits in my hand like the iPhone and,

01:12:28 ◼   ► you know, so it's a little bit bigger. It's like, it's not quite four inches. It's like

01:12:33 ◼   ► three point seven five inches diagonal. But I don't have any trouble going corner to corner

01:12:37 ◼   ► with my thumbs. Just feels great in my hand. But the Galaxy Nexus, the top of the line

01:12:44 ◼   ► Android phone which is I think I swear I'm not making this up I think it's like

01:12:48 ◼   ► a 4.8 inch display it's it's just too big it's too big to use with one hand it

01:12:56 ◼   ► really is it is it's nice to use with two hands it you know and and I'm not

01:13:01 ◼   ► surprised and I you know I think I've said this before the way that Android is

01:13:06 ◼   ► meant to work where they're supposed to be a variety of devices not surprised at

01:13:10 ◼   ► all that some people would prefer a sort of as big as a phone could get without being

01:13:17 ◼   ► laughed at phone.

01:13:18 ◼   ► Right.

01:13:19 ◼   ► I'm not surprised at all that there's a lot of people who do that.

01:13:21 ◼   ► No, I'm not either.

01:13:22 ◼   ► And that's the whole advantage of that whole model, that you can get this sort of variety

01:13:27 ◼   ► that you're never going to get from Apple because Apple is insane about these economies

01:13:32 ◼   ► of scale and they're not going to make two new phones that are only slightly different

01:13:38 ◼   ► in size.

01:13:39 ◼   ► to do it. I'm still shocked that there are 4,000 distinct Android ROMs. I mean

01:13:48 ◼   ► that just seems like a crazy number. This is from Ars Technica.

01:13:53 ◼   ► Casey Johnston. Android fragmentation. One developer encounters

01:13:58 ◼   ► There's 3,997 devices.

01:14:03 ◼   ► It's just…

01:14:07 ◼   ► I mean, I have no idea how…

01:14:13 ◼   ► I saw a…

01:14:14 ◼   ► How that happened.

01:14:15 ◼   ► Did you see their story the other day about the game developer who took a picture of their

01:14:19 ◼   ► testing room and they have all their Android phones out on one table?

01:14:22 ◼   ► It wasn't 4,000 phones, but they had like a table with 300 Android phones on it.

01:14:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:31 ◼   ► And 3,000 of them are from Samsung.

01:14:33 ◼   ► I wonder, you know, just to play devil's advocate for a second,

01:14:39 ◼   ► you know, is it fair to say that there's 4,000 phones you have to support?

01:14:44 ◼   ► I mean, how is that different than if you're a Windows developer

01:14:48 ◼   ► and the number of PCs that are out there?

01:14:49 ◼   ► I mean, it's probably almost infinite, the number of different PCs.

01:14:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:57 ◼   ► But, on the other hand, I don't see Windows developers... there must be some other differences,

01:15:05 ◼   ► though.

01:15:06 ◼   ► It must be harder.

01:15:07 ◼   ► It must be different with mobile, because you don't see Windows developers saying, "Our

01:15:10 ◼   ► new game..."

01:15:11 ◼   ► There's too many devices.

01:15:12 ◼   ► Right.

01:15:13 ◼   ► Or they don't have a list, "Our game runs on the HP Pavilion, blah, blah, blah, the Samsung..."

01:15:17 ◼   ► Well, for years, I mean, sound cards have always been a big issue.

01:15:21 ◼   ► And video cards.

01:15:22 ◼   ► I mean, those two things, I mean, really, for game development, it is a pain in the

01:15:25 ◼   ► ass and they have to, you know, they have to be really careful about what they do and

01:15:29 ◼   ► try and hit the top, um, top cards.

01:15:32 ◼   ► That's, you know, that's probably exactly it, is that Android is back in the pre-Microsoft

01:15:39 ◼   ► sort of put the hammer down and sort of said, "Look, enough of this nonsense with sound

01:15:43 ◼   ► cards and stuff like that. If you want, if you want to run the new version of Windows,

01:15:47 ◼   ► you've got to have this, that, and the other," you know, all of these specs.

01:15:50 ◼   ► And Google doesn't seem, Google doesn't have that leverage.

01:15:52 ◼   ► I think that's the difference is that

01:15:54 ◼   ► Microsoft cleaned up. I mean as fragmented as the PC market can be at a certain point Microsoft said look

01:16:01 ◼   ► Here's the baseline and it covered everything

01:16:04 ◼   ► It covered everything from the processor to the video to the sound card and you can use whatever you want

01:16:10 ◼   ► but these are the minimum requirements and if you don't meet all these minimum requirements, you don't get Windows and

01:16:15 ◼   ► If you don't have Windows good luck selling your PC, right?

01:16:18 ◼   ► And it really did help and I think that's exactly where Android is is sort of back in the you've got to have the certain certain

01:16:25 ◼   ► Sound card or you've got to be able to run OpenGL 4.1

01:16:29 ◼   ► You know a good luck with your you know

01:16:32 ◼   ► Typical person knowing whether their Android phone is capable of the newest version of open GL

01:16:37 ◼   ► this map of the map of all the different device types, it looks like a

01:16:42 ◼   ► Was it a Mandel brought? Yeah, it's just like

01:16:47 ◼   ► Because it has the major ones over the left and then it could show that the size is a proportional size for each square

01:16:53 ◼   ► Is that there I guess the number of devices out there and this gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller

01:16:58 ◼   ► It's like it's like it's a fractal

01:17:00 ◼   ► It's just crazy

01:17:04 ◼   ► Things we don't Apple developers don't have to worry about

01:17:12 ◼   ► No

01:17:15 ◼   ► What else is going on there's something else I wanted to talk to you about

01:17:18 ◼   ► About this Ashton Kutcher dress like Steve Jobs. Oh, yeah. I really don't care. I

01:17:25 ◼   ► Really? I have no

01:17:29 ◼   ► hopes or expectations for either of these two movies and I mean

01:17:33 ◼   ► just I have people seem to be getting right about Ashton Kutcher and like and then excited about

01:17:42 ◼   ► Sorkin writing the other one and I just I really do not care. All right, I think I'm with you on that that I don't

01:17:48 ◼   ► I don't care. I would be great. I hope both movies are good. I hope they're great

01:17:53 ◼   ► I hope I hope every movie that's ever made is great, but it's not gonna happen

01:17:57 ◼   ► But here's the thing and I I mentioned this and my wife pointed it out and I had sort of thought about it

01:18:01 ◼   ► but my wife really called it out is

01:18:03 ◼   ► What the hell is he doing dressed as Steve Jobs out getting coffee? Like is he was he on his way to the set?

01:18:11 ◼   ► Do actors typically oh I assumed I yeah, I assumed that well, I assumed that that was part of

01:18:16 ◼   ► He was photographed like coming out of a Starbucks, right?

01:18:19 ◼   ► He's okay

01:18:21 ◼   ► He's got like a like a cup of coffee like iced coffee in his hand and he's dressed like he looks like he's trying to

01:18:26 ◼   ► Walk like Steve Jobs do but he's got like young Steve Jobs hair

01:18:31 ◼   ► Yeah, and and then a ran old Steve Jobs is outfit on

01:18:36 ◼   ► Like jobs when he had a thick head full of hair never wore that outfit

01:18:42 ◼   ► to my knowledge that the black turtleneck and jeans and New Balance thing was a

01:18:47 ◼   ► like

01:18:48 ◼   ► 1997 he was spotted as he made his way to the set of the

01:18:52 ◼   ► Late Apple CEOs biopic. So yeah, and he's got like a nice. Oh my thought I see

01:18:59 ◼   ► My thought is that maybe he's doing like some kind of method actor

01:19:03 ◼   ► Right, you know if he wants to be Steve Jobs on screen, he's got to be him all the time. He's good

01:19:08 ◼   ► And that maybe he's not in costume

01:19:11 ◼   ► He's that's just what he's wearing in his daily life now to stay in that Steve Jobs mindset

01:19:18 ◼   ► And then he shows firing a person every day right like he shows up and then to get in a costume

01:19:22 ◼   ► He's playing Steve Jobs circa like 1982 and he's putting on like a plaid shirt and and some 80s

01:19:29 ◼   ► short ass jeans or whatever the hell Jobs was wearing back then and that he's just doing this and

01:19:33 ◼   ► Amy was like, I mean you really I mean, yeah, Ashton Kutcher method actor. He's like the next Bob DeNiro

01:19:40 ◼   ► I'm like, I'm not saying it's good acting advice

01:19:42 ◼   ► I'm saying it seems to me like the sort of crazy idea Ashton Kutcher would get in his hair about how he needs to be

01:19:47 ◼   ► Right. I'm not saying that this is how a good actor needs to do it

01:19:51 ◼   ► Yeah, you know, I don't I don't think uh, he read it. He read it in a book somewhere, right?

01:19:58 ◼   ► I don't and an in-flight magazine

01:19:59 ◼   ► I don't think Robert Downey jr. Had to you know wear the Iron Man suit out to get coffee

01:20:03 ◼   ► Just to get into donuts you are that to get diets

01:20:07 ◼   ► They're like just roll just roll with it roll roll camera. This is great

01:20:12 ◼   ► Yeah, I just I have a hard time getting worked up over it

01:20:18 ◼   ► The whole thing seems kind of dumb

01:20:26 ◼   ► How about the

01:20:28 ◼   ► This is a good one Glenn Britt CEO of Time Warner Cable

01:20:32 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm not sure I know what airplay is

01:20:36 ◼   ► So utterly unsurprising

01:20:41 ◼   ► No, yeah, not surprising so clearly telling

01:20:45 ◼   ► Like it would be one thing if the CEO of Time Warner Cable

01:20:49 ◼   ► Blew off airplay if it was asked about it in public and just said, you know

01:20:54 ◼   ► I just I don't really think it's that relevant - I don't think it's relevant or something like that

01:20:58 ◼   ► But to be genuinely genuinely confused and say you don't know what it is

01:21:02 ◼   ► You know and I don't think that again. I don't think

01:21:06 ◼   ► This is the sort of thing that that you and I and guys on our rack

01:21:10 ◼   ► you kind of have to get our heads around is covering Apple the

01:21:14 ◼   ► industry Goliath as opposed to Apple the

01:21:17 ◼   ► upstart

01:21:19 ◼   ► Right, and I don't think again. I don't think it's being an Apple fanboy to say hey AirPlay is an important technology

01:21:26 ◼   ► I think that it's hey if your business is

01:21:29 ◼   ► showing people TV shows and video

01:21:32 ◼   ► You've got I mean, how can you not be worried about what app that's the it seems like that's just a problem

01:21:38 ◼   ► With that kind of that kind of executives in that industry

01:21:43 ◼   ► I wouldn't be surprised if none of them know what it is. They're much more focused on making deals

01:21:51 ◼   ► with

01:21:54 ◼   ► partners than they are, you know, on technology.

01:21:56 ◼   ► But if I'm the CEO of Time Warner Cable, I would be terrified of Apple.

01:22:01 ◼   ► I would be so paranoid, or paranoid at least, maybe terrified is the wrong word, but I would be

01:22:07 ◼   ► paranoid about Apple and I would look at anything Apple did that was even vaguely related to

01:22:13 ◼   ► TV movies and video and

01:22:16 ◼   ► I would study that with a fine-tooth comb because they're Apple. They're they're the hundred billion dollar a year

01:22:22 ◼   ► Goliath

01:22:24 ◼   ► Well, that would be the smart thing to do, right?

01:22:26 ◼   ► I think we're we're already beyond that now and I do I just think it's one of those ways that Apple is

01:22:34 ◼   ► Because they were dormant for so long that people underestimate them like I don't think that

01:22:42 ◼   ► that if you know to go back 10 years to when Microsoft was the

01:22:47 ◼   ► You know again to circle back to the Department of Justice era that that late 90s Microsoft

01:22:52 ◼   ► I think that CEO of Time Warner knew exactly what Microsoft's like set-top TV plans were at the time

01:22:58 ◼   ► May not have been worried about him, but I think he was aware of them

01:23:02 ◼   ► Yeah, because they were dangerous

01:23:04 ◼   ► Right, I guess I guess I don't know I mean I

01:23:10 ◼   ► Mean, I don't yeah, and I really don't know. I mean I have no

01:23:16 ◼   ► Recollection of reading anything about it at the time and no I haven't followed that industry that closely like that, but

01:23:23 ◼   ► It just seems like these guys

01:23:26 ◼   ► Don't operate that way

01:23:29 ◼   ► It's their heads are so far up their asses. It's a ridiculous

01:23:33 ◼   ► So like I know mg seagull has been banging the drum on this thing forever with HBO shows not being available

01:23:39 ◼   ► Yeah

01:23:42 ◼   ► to buy

01:23:43 ◼   ► right and

01:23:45 ◼   ► Just was somebody did a study last week where they figured out that Game of Thrones is like the most pirated TV show ever

01:23:52 ◼   ► and

01:23:55 ◼   ► It's like do you not see the connection between the fact that you can't buy the episodes?

01:23:59 ◼   ► Until like a year and a half after they're done airing then they'll come out with them on like then they'll put them on Apple TV

01:24:06 ◼   ► And they put out the DVD. Yeah, and the fact that it's the most pirated show

01:24:10 ◼   ► Right on television and there and their response is basically the beatings will be

01:24:14 ◼   ► Morale and exactly, you know, and we're good now you're gonna need to buy you to get I mean in order I forget

01:24:23 ◼   ► What this is but you know, like you need to have a cable subscription in order to get our content

01:24:28 ◼   ► Yes

01:24:29 ◼   ► And this is the thing and it ties in with airplay and I find it very frustrating for me in particular with Game of Thrones

01:24:34 ◼   ► So I didn't watch Game of Thrones last year my new policy on TV shows and it has served me very well is I?

01:24:40 ◼   ► Don't watch any new shows and I wait until season one is over and if people are still saying good things about it

01:24:47 ◼   ► Then maybe I'll buy the whole thing and or I'll watch the pilot and if it's good

01:24:52 ◼   ► then I'll buy the whole series and I'll watch him like in a binge like seven nights in a row.

01:24:56 ◼   ► And I did that with Game of Thrones and I enjoyed it very much. Unsurprisingly, as a geek, I,

01:25:02 ◼   ► you know, thought it was terrific fun and very well done and sort of, you know, like a nice,

01:25:08 ◼   ► let's take this sort of vaguely Dungeons and Dragons milieu and up the production values and

01:25:17 ◼   ► sort of take it in a realistic quote unquote. And you and you famously did not like the Lord of the

01:25:23 ◼   ► Rings. I did not like the Lord of the Rings. Yeah. And that is very famous. So that's interesting.

01:25:28 ◼   ► I have not seen it. I have not seen it yet and I have plans to see it and I'm looking forward

01:25:33 ◼   ► to watching it. The Game of Thrones? Yeah, Game of Thrones. Because I want to get into it and I,

01:25:40 ◼   ► but at the same time I also know that season two is still airing now. Is that right? Yeah.

01:25:45 ◼   ► And I think that what's going to happen is I'm going to watch season one,

01:25:49 ◼   ► and then I'm going to want season two immediately, and I won't be able to get it for, you know,

01:25:53 ◼   ► 48 months or whatever HBO designs.

01:25:57 ◼   ► So, in a way, I'm kind of like, I know I want to watch it, but I'm holding on for a little longer

01:26:02 ◼   ► just to try and shorten that time frame.

01:26:07 ◼   ► Because of this stuff. Because they won't.

01:26:10 ◼   ► Well, here's the thing.

01:26:10 ◼   ► Or put it up on iTunes the next day.

01:26:12 ◼   ► The insane frustration for me is that they have this HBO Go app, which is actually pretty

01:26:17 ◼   ► well done.

01:26:18 ◼   ► And it's a real pain to set up at first because it's not you.

01:26:23 ◼   ► They don't just want your money.

01:26:24 ◼   ► You can't just say, "Here, let me pay you $20 a month and watch all of your stuff."

01:26:28 ◼   ► You have to have, like you said, you have to have a cable subscription that has HBO.

01:26:34 ◼   ► We do.

01:26:35 ◼   ► you sign in, I sign in with my Comcast ID and a Comcast password and HBO verifies it.

01:26:42 ◼   ► I guess it's one of the benefits of the fact that there's only a handful of giant

01:26:48 ◼   ► cable companies now. But Comcast is clearly a big one. So, correction, I'm sorry, Xfinity,

01:26:56 ◼   ► right? That's what the... Comcast is the company and Xfinity is the cable service because everybody

01:27:03 ◼   ► started associating Comcast with crap. But anyway, but I have it. See smart, smart move

01:27:09 ◼   ► there. I have it. Well, that's, you know, that's the bet. Again, the benefits of changing

01:27:13 ◼   ► the name, but, uh, right, exactly. But I have it and it works. And so I can watch season

01:27:17 ◼   ► two game of thrones on my iPad or iPhone, but I don't want to watch them on my iPad

01:27:22 ◼   ► or iPhone. I have a big giant 168 inch TV in my living room that I want to watch it

01:27:26 ◼   ► on and it doesn't support airplay and it doesn't support the the whatever the dingus you connect

01:27:34 ◼   ► to the bottom you know the video out thing the thing you you connected in the 30 pin dock and

01:27:39 ◼   ► then put an hdmi to your tv so that you can it doesn't support that like it gives you this

01:27:44 ◼   ► because i thought i was being clever and i thought that i thought that worked with anything

01:27:49 ◼   ► i thought you could always mirror your ipad or iphone onto the tv with that thing but you connect

01:27:54 ◼   ► it and then you fire up the HBO Go app and the system gives you this error that's sort

01:27:59 ◼   ► of like the jackasses who run the company behind the app you've given won't allow their

01:28:05 ◼   ► content to go out over the HDMI cable that is connected to this iPhone.

01:28:10 ◼   ► I know you can't believe this crap.

01:28:13 ◼   ► And I know that they've done all this stuff and verified that you've got a cable subscription

01:28:19 ◼   ► and are already paying them and there's really no possible argument that could be made that

01:28:24 ◼   ► preventing this from being played on the TV makes any sense whatsoever but you've

01:28:28 ◼   ► got to believe us cancel or okay right oh you have a TiVo right yes but so why

01:28:37 ◼   ► don't you record on TiVo well one problem is that I started get it I did

01:28:43 ◼   ► the whole season one Game of Thrones things after season two started so I

01:28:47 ◼   ► missed like the first episode or something anyway and the other problem

01:28:49 ◼   ► Oh, okay, so.

01:28:50 ◼   ► The other problem.

01:28:51 ◼   ► So HBO Go shows you older stuff.

01:28:54 ◼   ► Yes, well, no, but you can also,

01:28:57 ◼   ► no, no.

01:29:00 ◼   ► No?

01:29:01 ◼   ► No, HBO Go has all of the Game of Thrones.

01:29:03 ◼   ► Like, you could see it's--

01:29:04 ◼   ► Yeah, that's what I mean.

01:29:05 ◼   ► It'll show you--

01:29:06 ◼   ► Right, but my TiVo recording it from HBO

01:29:08 ◼   ► can't go back in time to get episode one of season two.

01:29:11 ◼   ► Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

01:29:12 ◼   ► And the other problem that we have is that

01:29:16 ◼   ► we have a dual cable card TiVo.

01:29:19 ◼   ► Yeah and one of the cable cards works perfectly and the second one works for anything except

01:29:27 ◼   ► the HBO and it just gives you a black screen and you can't tell the TiVo hey that cable

01:29:33 ◼   ► card doesn't get it so 50% of the time we try to record something on HBO it's it's just

01:29:39 ◼   ► black and everybody thinks well why don't you just call Comcast and have this fixed

01:29:44 ◼   ► And the reason is that we had guys out here like four times to get these.

01:29:51 ◼   ► They don't want to give you cable cards.

01:29:53 ◼   ► That's the thing.

01:29:54 ◼   ► And so when they send you, it's super passive aggressive and they send like their worst

01:29:57 ◼   ► text and a guy never showed up with more than two cable cards.

01:30:02 ◼   ► And usually it would be like one didn't work at all.

01:30:06 ◼   ► And then he would say, "Well, you know, what do you want to do?"

01:30:09 ◼   ► And I would say, "Well, that one doesn't work at all.

01:30:12 ◼   ► I would like to have two that work, which is what I'm paying for."

01:30:16 ◼   ► And he'd be like, "All right.

01:30:17 ◼   ► Well, what day are you going to be here?"

01:30:18 ◼   ► And I'll schedule another guy to come out.

01:30:20 ◼   ► And then another guy would come out with two cable cards, and he would take the other two.

01:30:24 ◼   ► And I would say, "Well, can you just leave that one that seems to be working in and just

01:30:27 ◼   ► replace the other one?"

01:30:28 ◼   ► And he said, "No, no.

01:30:29 ◼   ► It's already been canceled because as soon as I showed up and I hit this button, your

01:30:33 ◼   ► old cable cards were deactivated."

01:30:34 ◼   ► They were like SIM cards, sort of.

01:30:36 ◼   ► The old SIM card, you know, these old cable cards are deactivated, and you have to use

01:30:40 ◼   ► these two.

01:30:41 ◼   ► only got you know these channels and one didn't get the other and that fourth

01:30:45 ◼   ► time the guy had showed up again and I said and I would say like for the fourth

01:30:49 ◼   ► appointment can you tell the guy to bring more than two and they'd be like oh

01:30:52 ◼   ► yeah and put a note in the thing bring a bunch of them and a guy shows up he's

01:30:56 ◼   ► got two only two one worked perfectly the other one worked with everything

01:31:00 ◼   ► except HBO and Amy and I looked each other like get out of here go go so

01:31:06 ◼   ► that's why I don't have Game of Thrones on HBO but I have it on my

01:31:11 ◼   ► HBO Go app and I can't airplay it to my TV even though it's right here and and

01:31:16 ◼   ► the TV is right there and the Time Warner they when coding that app they

01:31:21 ◼   ► can choose to make the app not airplay and yep and they can also choose to make

01:31:26 ◼   ► it not HDMI out enabled right which you know and I presume that if Apple hadn't

01:31:35 ◼   ► made those things available that there would not be an H they would rather not

01:31:40 ◼   ► even have it they would never have done it in the first place because they don't

01:31:44 ◼   ► want people right but I honestly can't see what they're what the argument is

01:31:48 ◼   ► like whoever it is who has that like yes or no I mean you are you're already

01:31:54 ◼   ► paying for it right on here and they verify it and they you know it is I

01:31:58 ◼   ► don't see right it's I just feel like it would be like if I could find the guy at

01:32:05 ◼   ► HBO who has the authority the guy who could say all right let's turn airplay

01:32:10 ◼   ► on in the next release. I can make this happen if I sign my name on this line right here.

01:32:16 ◼   ► I would love to have an argument with that guy and see what he – I feel though that

01:32:21 ◼   ► if I had the argument with him, that his explanation, he would use biz dev terms that would give

01:32:29 ◼   ► me a headache. I would come out of it and not actually understand what he said. I would

01:32:36 ◼   ► come out like I just had the conversation in German, which I don't speak.

01:32:46 ◼   ► It's just unbelievable. I mean, we don't have cable anymore. We got rid of it. I just said

01:32:54 ◼   ► I was going to buy everything off of iTunes from now on. I mean, because I... There's

01:32:58 ◼   ► so much about broadcast television that makes me angry, and particularly about the cable

01:33:03 ◼   ► companies that makes me angry that...

01:33:04 ◼   ► How's that?

01:33:05 ◼   ► In Tacoma though, one of the nice things is that we actually have cable competition because

01:33:10 ◼   ► the city has their own cable network.

01:33:14 ◼   ► So you can get cable TV through Comcast or through the city of Tacoma, which is kind

01:33:21 ◼   ► of nice.

01:33:23 ◼   ► When I compare what we paid to what my parents are paying in Connecticut, it's just...

01:33:27 ◼   ► It's funny how that works.

01:33:29 ◼   ► It's absurd.

01:33:30 ◼   ► It's funny how that works.

01:33:31 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:33:32 ◼   ► Yeah, strange, isn't it?

01:33:33 ◼   ► the hell of living in Philadelphia is that our city offers cable to I was

01:33:37 ◼   ► called Comcast I walked right in it because we are of course cable town yeah

01:33:46 ◼   ► how's that working out for you though I think you mean the cup the carpet no

01:33:52 ◼   ► they're not having they're not having cable oh not having oh not having uh

01:33:56 ◼   ► pretty good we're obviously not watching as much baseball as we used to watch

01:34:02 ◼   ► Um, yeah, and I you know, I could get the I could get the major league

01:34:06 ◼   ► Yeah, but then you wouldn't isn't your team is local Seattle team, right? Yeah

01:34:11 ◼   ► That's it. See that's right part of the problem. So and then you know, even if I could watch them I'd be watching

01:34:17 ◼   ► watching them lose

01:34:20 ◼   ► So that's part of why I'm not watching as much tell very much baseball anymore either

01:34:24 ◼   ► but

01:34:27 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean I just I worked out the math and I it just made for the amount of television that we were watching

01:34:32 ◼   ► the amount of shows that we were watching it made more sense to buy him off of iTunes than to

01:34:36 ◼   ► than to pay

01:34:39 ◼   ► 55 bucks a month for whatever it was and that's just to start. I mean everybody I forget what we yeah

01:34:44 ◼   ► We weren't getting right. We weren't getting any premium. I mean any premium channels, so

01:34:48 ◼   ► We've got HBO, but we don't have them in there's I don't know

01:34:54 ◼   ► It's it's it's like trying to buy a car and there's seven different types of leather you can get for the seat

01:34:58 ◼   ► I mean, it's so complicated, but we don't even have nearly the top tier of cable, but we paid we do have HBO

01:35:04 ◼   ► But we pay I don't know five hundred dollars a month or something

01:35:07 ◼   ► Really stinks that's a package. Yeah

01:35:12 ◼   ► Came with a hat you can

01:35:15 ◼   ► You can also not watch your shows by airplane, right?

01:35:19 ◼   ► As part of the package Xfinity

01:35:23 ◼   ► Yeah, terrible name

01:35:26 ◼   ► No, it's not a good name, but at the same time, it probably was a good idea on their part to name it something other than "Compcast Online."

01:35:36 ◼   ► "Cabletown." They should have gone with "Cabletown." They should just embrace it.

01:35:40 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a name like... we were talking about "ecam" the other day.

01:35:51 ◼   ► name that sounds... good company, nice guys. Name that sounds like it's from a different era.

01:35:57 ◼   ► Yeah, that's when we were talking, that's how we got back on the Mac connection kick.

01:36:00 ◼   ► Right.

01:36:01 ◼   ► Ecamm sounds sort of like one of those...

01:36:03 ◼   ► Mm-hmm, back of the catalog... back of the magazine.

01:36:06 ◼   ► Back of the magazine, we sell everything and anything, electronics.

01:36:10 ◼   ► Sort of like Radio Shack without the class.

01:36:12 ◼   ► They never went full into that rebranding they were going to do.

01:36:18 ◼   ► The Shack!

01:36:19 ◼   ► The Shack.

01:36:20 ◼   ► They did I forgot about that a little I think you like everyone smell we got a flyer and it'll say somewhere on it the

01:36:24 ◼   ► Shack or something like that and you know that they those flyers that get stuck in the middle of the newspaper or the just dumped in

01:36:30 ◼   ► the mail but I

01:36:32 ◼   ► Thought they were gonna really like tear the signs down and call it the shack

01:36:36 ◼   ► nope

01:36:39 ◼   ► It's a darn shame

01:36:41 ◼   ► All right, I say we call it a show all right all right

01:36:46 ◼   ► Thanks, John. John Moltz of VeryNiceWebsite.net.

01:36:50 ◼   ► [BLANK_AUDIO]