The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► I've been up lately. I've been working lately.

00:00:02 ◼   ► On what?

00:00:04 ◼   ► What do they call them? Coles in the fire? I was gonna guess that.

00:00:09 ◼   ► Is that how the saying goes? I've been butchering my idioms lately. Coles in the fire? You got a lot of Coles in the fire?

00:00:15 ◼   ► Well, if you have...

00:00:17 ◼   ► It's my understanding in smithing. I think the term is

00:00:20 ◼   ► You need Coles in your fire so that you can put iron irons in there.

00:00:24 ◼   ► I think that's blacksmithing or it could just be I don't know. What do you think? That's the blacksmith thing, right?

00:00:29 ◼   ► All right, but that doesn't make any sense to me though. What I'm trying to say is I'm working on multiple projects

00:00:34 ◼   ► But it seems to me that just putting a lot more coals in your fire doesn't necessarily imply

00:00:38 ◼   ► No, you're out. You're absolutely saying it wrong

00:00:40 ◼   ► It's irons in the fire. So it is it and at the risk of making it sound like you work for a circus

00:00:45 ◼   ► I think you might see a lot of balls in the air

00:00:47 ◼   ► Got a lot of balls in here. Yeah, maybe that's better. Yeah, we can do better

00:00:51 ◼   ► Really? It's a little bit more like I got a lot of balls on the ground all over the place. Oh, okay

00:00:56 ◼   ► That's a good one. I heard one time my friend

00:00:59 ◼   ► we were working at dot com right before the final implosion

00:01:04 ◼   ► he said there's still on the stock market he said there's still a lot of

00:01:07 ◼   ► grenades rolling around

00:01:08 ◼   ► I've always liked that one. Oh, that is a good one. Maybe you got a lot of

00:01:11 ◼   ► you know maybe you got some grenades rolling around

00:01:15 ◼   ► and maybe maybe you'll kick him out the door I don't know

00:01:18 ◼   ► I can always tell like a lot of people I can tell when you're posting

00:01:22 ◼   ► via mobile as you say

00:01:25 ◼   ► But no, you're posting less lately, so I assume that you had some coals.

00:01:30 ◼   ► I don't know what. We don't talk enough, but I assume you have coals or grenades.

00:01:36 ◼   ► Something.

00:01:37 ◼   ► Nothing you can talk about.

00:01:38 ◼   ► No, nothing I can talk about.

00:01:40 ◼   ► Good for you. I got coals.

00:01:42 ◼   ► Interesting that you could suss it out, though.

00:01:44 ◼   ► Well, you know, I'm a student. I can figure things out.

00:01:50 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, you got less of the full star post lately. I figure that's, you know, an indicator.

00:01:57 ◼   ► But that's exciting. This is exciting. You have coals.

00:02:01 ◼   ► Possibly.

00:02:02 ◼   ► Plausible deniability.

00:02:05 ◼   ► Right. Well, possibly exciting. Definitely have coals. I don't know if it's exciting.

00:02:11 ◼   ► Wow. I hope you'll tell me more when it's time to reveal your coals.

00:02:18 ◼   ► You know what I can do? I can announce, because the show hasn't...

00:02:22 ◼   ► While we're recording, this has not been announced, but by the time this show airs,

00:02:25 ◼   ► it'll be announced. We're going to do a live show at the WWDC again.

00:02:29 ◼   ► Wow. At the event?

00:02:32 ◼   ► Yeah. Well, no, no. Like last year, it would be... It's not officially sanctioned. It would be

00:02:39 ◼   ► coincidental with WWDC. Well, I've been to a lot of your live shows during WWDC, but it's usually

00:02:45 ◼   ► in that one bar?

00:02:47 ◼   ► No, I did it the one time at the 111 Minnow last year.

00:02:52 ◼   ► I didn't say it was recorded.

00:02:53 ◼   ► It just seems like you're in that bar a lot.

00:02:55 ◼   ► Oh, I got you.

00:02:56 ◼   ► Yeah, that's right.

00:02:57 ◼   ► I've eaten a lot of hot wings in that place.

00:03:00 ◼   ► They call them sliders.

00:03:04 ◼   ► That's exciting now.

00:03:05 ◼   ► Are you in a position to say when that will be and who will be visiting with you?

00:03:09 ◼   ► It's going to be on Tuesday, I believe, whatever the day of the month is in June.

00:03:14 ◼   ► What is that? What's that gonna be a Tuesday Tuesday? Yeah Tuesday that the 11th Tuesday, June 11th

00:03:20 ◼   ► Tickets is you're gonna have to go to a certain thing to go on tickets

00:03:24 ◼   ► Actually by the time you hear this the tickets will probably be gone. Well, that's but maybe not maybe you should go check

00:03:30 ◼   ► You can go I'm sure that by now. There's a weird thing. I've probably announced it on I have a website called daring fireball

00:03:37 ◼   ► I've probably announced it there and linked to the place where you'll go to get the tickets and then you could go and

00:03:43 ◼   ► And I would it would be a great time last year meeting a couple hundred fans of the show

00:03:49 ◼   ► Well, I heard I first of all congratulations on selling out

00:03:53 ◼   ► I also heard that a lot of people were disappointed that they couldn't get tickets and that the website was kind of unresponsive

00:04:00 ◼   ► Which I understand as you said briefly was not your fault

00:04:03 ◼   ► For my show or for WWDC. I'm acting like it's already done

00:04:06 ◼   ► Well, that's awesome, do you know the venue

00:04:11 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a place called mezzanine SF you ever been there. I've never been there. I don't think so

00:04:16 ◼   ► Yeah, it should be a little bigger than last year should have more seating than last year

00:04:19 ◼   ► But it will still have an open bar like last year. Hmm. That's that's Wow. How great is this?

00:04:26 ◼   ► Let me tell you this. We have a couple sponsors for the show, but we have a like a headline like a mainline

00:04:30 ◼   ► Event sponsor like a big, you know big ticket sponsor. It's gonna be Microsoft's Azure

00:04:39 ◼   ► Web services mobile web services, so how great's that gonna be to have a bunch of WWDC nerds drinking on Bill Gates's dime, huh?

00:04:46 ◼   ► It's coming right out of the Gates Foundation. Yeah, you're taking algebra straight out of children's mouths

00:04:52 ◼   ► Yeah, or is it flute? What are the flu shots? What what what's the Gates Foundation? Did they do flu shots, right?

00:04:57 ◼   ► Whether it's malaria and polio, I think is new what you know, he's on polio now. I like

00:05:03 ◼   ► I thought we solved that.

00:05:05 ◼   ► You know what we did, but we didn't 100% eradicate it.

00:05:08 ◼   ► And that's like he's been making the rounds.

00:05:11 ◼   ► And you know, God bless him.

00:05:12 ◼   ► I really do think he's doing great work on this front.

00:05:14 ◼   ► But it's that he's making the case that you really have to get to 100%.

00:05:21 ◼   ► Like 99.9% eradication isn't good enough because 20, 30 years later, all of a sudden you get

00:05:27 ◼   ► these little mini outbreaks.

00:05:29 ◼   ► Apparently, it's heartbreaking, but it does seem like now there's more kids with polio

00:05:34 ◼   ► right now than there were, I don't know, since Jonas Salk invented the vaccine.

00:05:38 ◼   ► Well, I don't know.

00:05:43 ◼   ► And I guess because not all these idiots don't get their kids vaccinated and stuff like that.

00:05:49 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:05:50 ◼   ► We should get started.

00:05:51 ◼   ► Did you see that infographic?

00:05:52 ◼   ► Which one's that?

00:05:53 ◼   ► No, I don't think so.

00:05:54 ◼   ► We shouldn't get started.

00:05:55 ◼   ► I'll send it to you.

00:05:56 ◼   ► But there's an infographic somebody did.

00:05:57 ◼   ► know, infographic and five bucks will get you a cup of coffee. But it was a big bubble

00:06:02 ◼   ► graph to do. They did a to-do on how basically life before and after vaccines and like what

00:06:10 ◼   ► it's really meant. And, you know, well, we probably should, you know, this is like breastfeeding

00:06:16 ◼   ► and circumcision, you know?

00:06:17 ◼   ► I guess so, you know, but to me, it's a little bit more, you know, the side A and side B

00:06:24 ◼   ► you really don't hold equal weight. I don't know. The vaccine thing really gets to me.

00:06:27 ◼   ► Oh, I told I 100% agree with you.

00:06:33 ◼   ► When I was a kid, it's you know, like my grandparents, I can't say that I recall any times where

00:06:38 ◼   ► they sat me down and told me, you know, gave me an afternoon spiel about, you know, here's

00:06:43 ◼   ► what life was like. You know, when I was your age at the turn of the last century, I mean,

00:06:47 ◼   ► my grand, my dad's dad was born, I think, in like 1903 or something like that. But it

00:06:52 ◼   ► I knew enough though that having been born in like 1903 to have lived to be a grandfather

00:07:01 ◼   ► in like the 1970s with a bunch of grandkids and stuff, that he dodged a lot of grenades.

00:07:09 ◼   ► People he knew got shot up in world wars.

00:07:12 ◼   ► People got just walking down the street, you just pick up some polio and then next thing

00:07:17 ◼   ► you know, your legs don't work.

00:07:20 ◼   ► That's just the sort of thing that happened.

00:07:22 ◼   ► Well yeah, and also my grandmother was one of the many people of her three siblings,

00:07:28 ◼   ► one of them died from the flu epidemic when it was going around.

00:07:32 ◼   ► But then also you've got this craziness, I think it was polio, I was talking to my wonderful

00:07:38 ◼   ► mother-in-law about this, and the time when, I'm probably going to get this wrong, but

00:07:42 ◼   ► something along the lines of, they knew polio was a thing, they knew that it was really

00:07:45 ◼   ► bad news, but it was still, I think, somewhat or very unclear, like how people got it. And

00:07:51 ◼   ► so you would just like keep your kids in the house. I guess it was sort of maybe like the

00:07:55 ◼   ► early days of AIDS, like you didn't know. There's a time when people thought you got

00:07:59 ◼   ► AIDS from, you know, amyl nitrates. So, you know, in the early days of that stuff, it's

00:08:04 ◼   ► so frightening. But to your point, yeah, during the Depression, for a variety of reasons,

00:08:08 ◼   ► or really, gosh, any time before this era we're talking about, you just have kids die.

00:08:13 ◼   ► you just see the kids the kids down your street we just die and and it's you know

00:08:17 ◼   ► as somebody who had the opportunity our parents and grandparents had the

00:08:20 ◼   ► opportunity to have their kids not have to deal with that it's sort of strange

00:08:25 ◼   ► to look back at yeah you know and I don't you know it shouldn't be

00:08:30 ◼   ► political it's you know and it's the sort of thing that should have united

00:08:32 ◼   ► everybody but there was this you know like after World War two at the 50s and

00:08:37 ◼   ► the 60s there was this this just a sense that you know each time we click a

00:08:41 ◼   ► decade forward we're gonna make great progress and we're gonna beat things

00:08:44 ◼   ► like polio and and it was something to celebrate it's like hey we beat this

00:08:48 ◼   ► terrible thing that that's been you know crippling us for decades and it was a

00:08:54 ◼   ► celebration and everybody you know ran out and did it and it's like people just

00:08:58 ◼   ► I don't know what goes through people's minds today I don't know what they think

00:09:01 ◼   ► the world would be like without vaccination there's a post you a link

00:09:06 ◼   ► post you had, I'm gonna have to guess, in 2004 or 2008, maybe 2008, but it was...you

00:09:13 ◼   ► cited a statistic that's...maybe you'll remember this, something like 25% of Americans, long

00:09:20 ◼   ► after it had been conclusively shown to be an urban myth or whatever, that something

00:09:26 ◼   ► like...did you say like 25% of Americans still thought that Obama was not qualified to be

00:09:32 ◼   ► president, that he was like not American?

00:09:33 ◼   ► Oh, I don't know. It's ridiculous, the number of...

00:09:36 ◼   ► But it was at the time you posted that. It was at that time when it was like, "Guys,

00:09:41 ◼   ► there's nothing else that can be proven here to anybody who's not bananas." This is a thing.

00:09:48 ◼   ► But that's how it is. I mean, there are always going to be people who are... I'm always coming

00:09:57 ◼   ► to that book. I'm coming back to that book, Don't Think of an Elephant. There are people

00:10:01 ◼   ► People who have – we all do.

00:10:02 ◼   ► We all have a frame of reference for understanding the world.

00:10:05 ◼   ► There are certain people who use different kinds of information and, to be honest, gut

00:10:09 ◼   ► feelings about how things go, to have very emotional responses to things.

00:10:13 ◼   ► Again, we all have this.

00:10:18 ◼   ► In that instance, there's no amount of evidence that will convince people that that is incorrect

00:10:22 ◼   ► because it so closely comports with the frame of reference about how things really are.

00:10:29 ◼   ► I think something really ties in to the way, I think, television in particular legitimizes

00:10:37 ◼   ► anything that's on TV carries a legitimacy that isn't really warranted but somehow it

00:10:44 ◼   ► psychologically is.

00:10:45 ◼   ► And famously, I don't know if it was the Oprah show.

00:10:49 ◼   ► I think it might have been the Oprah show but it's the one on the vaccinations and Jenny

00:10:52 ◼   ► McCarthy is there and they brought out the actual scientist.

00:10:54 ◼   ► I can't talk you out of this.

00:10:55 ◼   ► I know.

00:10:56 ◼   ► But the guy actually made like a Carl Sagan style look. I know this stuff like a, you know,

00:11:04 ◼   ► a world literally one of the maybe the top minds in the world on vaccination medicine and laid it

00:11:10 ◼   ► out beautifully in layman's terms that there is absolutely zero scientific evidence that

00:11:17 ◼   ► vaccinations lead to autism. There's no evidence. And then, you know, and more than he just said

00:11:23 ◼   ► said that he made the case. He showed that there's no evidence and told about the studies

00:11:27 ◼   ► and that showed this and how the studies worked and that there's not even a dispute about

00:11:34 ◼   ► it in the scientific terms. This isn't even a dispute. And they turn to Jenny McCarthy

00:11:38 ◼   ► and she says, "Well, my son is my evidence," because her son has autism.

00:11:43 ◼   ► There's probably a Latin name for what she did. That sounds like a trope, a rhetorical trope.

00:11:49 ◼   ► Well, and you know, again, I'm not a vaccine expert, but it's my understanding.

00:11:54 ◼   ► But then that puts it in your mind if you're at home and you're the sort of person—

00:11:57 ◼   ► Because you love your kid. You love your kid, right?

00:11:59 ◼   ► Right.

00:11:59 ◼   ► But didn't they drum out? Didn't the British Medical Society or whatever drum out the guy whose spurious study

00:12:06 ◼   ► was the nominal

00:12:12 ◼   ► Fuse that set all of this off. I mean there was this one thing that came out in England that right

00:12:17 ◼   ► But here's what's interesting about that

00:12:19 ◼   ► And this is where I come back to the frame of reference thing because it applies to everything from how people think about

00:12:24 ◼   ► Their inbox to how people think about Apple

00:12:26 ◼   ► Formerly Apple computer is that people is I think people come kind of pre-loaded to any

00:12:32 ◼   ► any bit of cultural

00:12:37 ◼   ► I don't want to say cultural warfare, but any kind of cultural opposition.

00:12:42 ◼   ► First of all, let's just say we're all expected to pick a side about everything, whatever.

00:12:46 ◼   ► But there are certain people who come at that with a certain point of view who are, let's

00:12:50 ◼   ► just say, charitably going to cherry pick evidence to support their point of view.

00:12:55 ◼   ► And again, that's probably something we all do.

00:12:58 ◼   ► But the part of it that I think is a little bit lamentable is that it's one thing to say,

00:13:03 ◼   ► "Well, God said it.

00:13:04 ◼   ► I believe it.

00:13:05 ◼   ► That settles it."

00:13:06 ◼   ► that that I you know I don't agree with that but I can respect that but when it

00:13:11 ◼   ► comes to things where like we have the evidence for this but you go no no no as

00:13:14 ◼   ► long as you're going to throw all this quote-unquote science at me let me point

00:13:17 ◼   ► at this study I heard about third hand that disagrees with that so they feel

00:13:23 ◼   ► like I think in that instance they feel like they have more than enough basis to

00:13:28 ◼   ► back up their emotion they didn't start out with the data I mean how many people

00:13:31 ◼   ► even go out and read the abstract for something that Malcolm Gladwell is

00:13:35 ◼   ► crying about. Don't get me started, but...

00:13:39 ◼   ► It turns out reading books actually makes you stupider.

00:13:44 ◼   ► But I think we all do that. We all look for evidence to support our own point of view

00:13:49 ◼   ► and then get more and more sort of dug in about it.

00:13:52 ◼   ► I think I mentioned this a few weeks ago, too. There's also this weird unfortunate aspect

00:13:57 ◼   ► of human psychology where we... I forget the term, but it's like a loss avoidance that

00:14:04 ◼   ► feel it if I give you a dollar say here here's a dollar Merlin and then I toss a

00:14:15 ◼   ► coin and it comes up tails and I say well you lost I give me the dollar back

00:14:20 ◼   ► you feel worse than if I toss the coin first and it comes up tails and I say ah

00:14:28 ◼   ► if it had come up heads I'd have given you a dollar right it's the exact same

00:14:33 ◼   ► Math, right?

00:14:36 ◼   ► There is, you know, you've got a 50% chance of gaining a dollar in this incident, but

00:14:42 ◼   ► that you had it in your hand and I took it away makes you feel worse.

00:14:46 ◼   ► And the way it plays into the vaccination thing is there was like a poll that somebody

00:14:50 ◼   ► did where they like polled parents and said, I might get the numbers wrong here, but more

00:14:58 ◼   ► or less. Let's say there's a disease that there's a one in a thousand chance that

00:15:04 ◼   ► your child will get, and if your child gets it, it'll be it'll be fatal. But

00:15:10 ◼   ► there's a vaccine that will make sure your child doesn't get it, but if you

00:15:15 ◼   ► give your child the vaccine, there's a one in ten thousand chance that the

00:15:18 ◼   ► vaccine will kill your kid. Right. What do you do? If you're just, you know, if you

00:15:23 ◼   ► even just play the basic odds. I mean, if you're a kid, if your kid, this is, boy, people

00:15:30 ◼   ► take this apart, but you know, if your kid swallows something and you're not sure if

00:15:34 ◼   ► it's poison, you know, you probably call 911. But just for the sake of argument, you know,

00:15:41 ◼   ► what are the chances of that kid being really sick from poison versus what are the chances

00:15:45 ◼   ► of that kid dying in an automobile accident on the way? Like, there's risk to everything.

00:15:49 ◼   ► You know, do you know what I mean? It's like, you have to weigh, you have to weigh all of

00:15:53 ◼   ► do you weigh the risk of, you know, of flying in a plane somewhere? Or of, you know, again,

00:16:02 ◼   ► so many things that are, you know, and it turns out culture, so many things that are

00:16:07 ◼   ► good for us and then bad for us. Do you remember in the 90s when it was all about, like, avoiding

00:16:12 ◼   ► fat? And so you go out and buy a box of Snackwells, you know, which is basically like eating a

00:16:17 ◼   ► bag of flour. And it was just a green box, green of course. It was really way ahead of

00:16:22 ◼   ► of its time by being green.

00:16:24 ◼   ► It basically said on it, low fat.

00:16:25 ◼   ► Oh, great.

00:16:26 ◼   ► Well, I can eat like 90 of these.

00:16:28 ◼   ► Or are you--

00:16:29 ◼   ► John, be honest.

00:16:30 ◼   ► You have a microwave oven, I'm guessing, right?

00:16:32 ◼   ► We do.

00:16:32 ◼   ► Now, what's your position on plastic in the microwave?

00:16:35 ◼   ► Are you dealing with this?

00:16:38 ◼   ► I'm dealing heavily with this in my household.

00:16:42 ◼   ► You know what?

00:16:42 ◼   ► I feel like, why take a chance?

00:16:45 ◼   ► So we've actually--

00:16:48 ◼   ► I don't think we rushed out and immediately banned

00:16:52 ◼   ► all plastic in the microwave but we well I say we it was really Amy I don't I

00:16:57 ◼   ► mean what am I I don't order stuff like this but we recently ordered like new

00:17:01 ◼   ► all the the stuff that you put leftovers in and then put it in the fridge we got

00:17:05 ◼   ► this noose it's all glass now so when you take something out of the fridge and

00:17:10 ◼   ► you want to heat it up it's already in like a little glass thing so you don't

00:17:13 ◼   ► have to put plastic and you gotta clean it you know I mean when they make when

00:17:18 ◼   ► When they make a glass Ziploc bag, I'll start rethinking this.

00:17:22 ◼   ► If I can't put saran wrap on a bowl of vegetables like a gentleman, I'm not sure I want to live

00:17:27 ◼   ► anymore.

00:17:29 ◼   ► I don't really microwave a lot of stuff, though, to tell you the truth.

00:17:32 ◼   ► Because you're artis anal.

00:17:33 ◼   ► You get all local.

00:17:34 ◼   ► You shop at your little Whole Foods there.

00:17:35 ◼   ► You get everything artis anal, and then you cook it in, what, like a bamboo steamer?

00:17:39 ◼   ► How do you do that?

00:17:41 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:17:42 ◼   ► I really...

00:17:43 ◼   ► You're not involved in the preparation of a lot of meals.

00:17:45 ◼   ► No, I really don't know where food comes from.

00:17:48 ◼   ► I generally just wake up all day, drink fizzy water and coffee all day long.

00:17:54 ◼   ► And then at some point when the sun goes down, my blood sugar is in a desperate situation

00:18:01 ◼   ► and I'm ready to pass out.

00:18:03 ◼   ► And then my wife provides me with a hot meal.

00:18:08 ◼   ► And then I fall asleep.

00:18:09 ◼   ► God, that's so sweet.

00:18:10 ◼   ► I think someday when I eventually, as I'm sure you will have at some point, when we

00:18:14 ◼   ► eventually each have interventions in our life.

00:18:18 ◼   ► I think one of the things I'll be forced to confront

00:18:20 ◼   ► is that most of my day is built around

00:18:23 ◼   ► which beverage I'm having.

00:18:25 ◼   ► I don't even, I don't need a clock.

00:18:28 ◼   ► - Exactly, I might.

00:18:29 ◼   ► I think that's why you and I get along so.

00:18:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think--

00:18:33 ◼   ► - It's a lot of caffeine in the waking hours

00:18:37 ◼   ► and then there's a long stretch in the middle

00:18:40 ◼   ► filled with lots and lots of over-carbonated fizzy water.

00:18:43 ◼   ► Uh-huh.

00:18:44 ◼   ► And then in the evening there's some alcohol involved.

00:18:48 ◼   ► Well, yeah.

00:18:49 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:50 ◼   ► And I think as long as you keep those—it's sort of like the food pyramid, right?

00:18:56 ◼   ► Or you want to try and minimize the number of fats or whatever.

00:19:01 ◼   ► Let's be honest.

00:19:02 ◼   ► You've got fats, carbohydrates—fats, carbohydrates—what's the other one?

00:19:09 ◼   ► In the food pyramid?

00:19:10 ◼   ► You've got your grains?

00:19:11 ◼   ► Here's what I'm trying to say.

00:19:13 ◼   ► As long as you can keep the alcohol

00:19:15 ◼   ► to less than a third of your waking hours,

00:19:18 ◼   ► I think even the FDA would say you're on the right track.

00:19:20 ◼   ► When you get to half of your day, even-- let's be honest--

00:19:23 ◼   ► even if it's staggered through the day,

00:19:25 ◼   ► you can't start with it that's a little bit of a cheat.

00:19:27 ◼   ► Or just don't start with a lot.

00:19:29 ◼   ► Like if you have an Irish coffee in the morning,

00:19:30 ◼   ► I don't think anybody's going to argue about that.

00:19:32 ◼   ► Plus you're alone.

00:19:33 ◼   ► Your family's out of the house, right?

00:19:34 ◼   ► My wife is so mad at me on St. Patrick's Day

00:19:40 ◼   ► because she wanted an Irish coffee.

00:19:42 ◼   ► And we do-- I mean, I don't think we have a gigantic liquor

00:19:47 ◼   ► collection in the house.

00:19:48 ◼   ► But it's--

00:19:49 ◼   ► Not at any given time.

00:19:51 ◼   ► Right, it's a well-stocked bar.

00:19:54 ◼   ► But we did not have any Irish whiskey.

00:19:58 ◼   ► And I said, well, you could just-- you know,

00:20:00 ◼   ► you can make an Irish coffee with bourbon.

00:20:01 ◼   ► And it was as though I told her, you know, I don't know,

00:20:05 ◼   ► you could make wine out of cherries or something.

00:20:09 ◼   ► Like the way some people are about martinis and vodka, right?

00:20:13 ◼   ► Right.

00:20:13 ◼   ► Like our friend Dan Benjamin would say that that is absolutely not a martini if it has vodka in it.

00:20:17 ◼   ► Right. It's a separate drink, separate cocktail.

00:20:19 ◼   ► And so how did you resolve that? Did you go out? Did you fool her?

00:20:22 ◼   ► Like what did you make a clinky noise and then just pour scotch in there? What'd you do?

00:20:26 ◼   ► No, I don't think I went out. Was it a Sunday this year?

00:20:31 ◼   ► We were out of town at the time and so we missed it.

00:20:36 ◼   ► It was a Sunday. It was a Sunday.

00:20:38 ◼   ► so you know and Pennsylvania is a no booze on Sundays town although there are

00:20:44 ◼   ► they've lightened it up a little bit where now there's most of the liquor

00:20:47 ◼   ► stores they're all state-run but most are not open at all on Sundays there is

00:20:51 ◼   ► at least one within walking distance but but she was like I don't know. That seems so archaic to me.

00:20:56 ◼   ► My wife's from Rhode Island and you know there's there's all kinds of little

00:21:01 ◼   ► islands of different laws in New England it's it's very weird but I mean it seems

00:21:06 ◼   ► strange to me that, and you know they would do this in high school, you know,

00:21:09 ◼   ► when she was a kid, you can't, what is it, you can't buy liquor. They had all these

00:21:13 ◼   ► weird, it's like little dry islands, but you could, you know, you could drive over

00:21:18 ◼   ► to the next town like five minutes and there's like a liquor store like right

00:21:24 ◼   ► by the county line or the city line or whatever. It seems, it seems so odd. See, in

00:21:29 ◼   ► our neighborhood, it's like a Gaelic New Year's Eve, you know, like, like, like

00:21:34 ◼   ► Like people who don't drink often, it's like on New Year's Eve, everybody thinks they're

00:21:39 ◼   ► a great drunk driver and everybody thinks they're a great drunk, right?

00:21:43 ◼   ► And so everybody in our neighborhood, which is very Irish in a lot of ways, people don't

00:21:49 ◼   ► know their limits and pretty much our entire neighborhood is puking on St. Patrick's Day,

00:21:58 ◼   ► which is a shame because I'm largely Irish and I think that's something you learn.

00:22:02 ◼   ► You know? You gotta warm up. You know? You gotta keep going to practice.

00:22:06 ◼   ► You know, Mariano Rivera didn't get good by just showing up. Do you know what I'm saying?

00:22:10 ◼   ► I hear you. I don't think he got good by drinking.

00:22:13 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:22:17 ◼   ► Is he totally out now? Is he gone? He's going out, right?

00:22:21 ◼   ► Yeah. Well, I guess so. I mean, I think he—

00:22:24 ◼   ► Did he recover from that? Or could he recover from that? Really?

00:22:27 ◼   ► He had a horrible, bizarre, freak knee injury last year in April.

00:22:33 ◼   ► He'd only shown up in nine games.

00:22:35 ◼   ► I don't know what you call that thing.

00:22:37 ◼   ► It's not the ACL. It's that neat thing you don't want to hurt.

00:22:42 ◼   ► It's a technical term.

00:22:43 ◼   ► It just completely ruptured.

00:22:45 ◼   ► Wasn't it at practice and he wasn't doing anything?

00:22:47 ◼   ► Like he was grabbing some Gatorade and turned wrong or something?

00:22:49 ◼   ► No. What he does, he's a pitcher.

00:22:51 ◼   ► But what he's always done for his whole career is before games.

00:22:55 ◼   ► It's called shagging flies where he's out in the outfield and a guy, you know at home plate is taking batting practice

00:23:01 ◼   ► Just hitting real deep, you know fly balls all the way from home plate out to the outfield wall

00:23:05 ◼   ► and he run, you know runs after them and catches them and

00:23:08 ◼   ► he was just running after a deep fly ball and just took like a funny step on the

00:23:14 ◼   ► There's always a warning track before the walls, you know, like the grass. Yeah, the big white line and all that right

00:23:20 ◼   ► Well, it's like a like a maybe like a 10-foot wide patch of dirt or clay or something around the walls

00:23:25 ◼   ► So if you're an outfielder running toward the wall and all you have to do is know I'm not on grass anymore

00:23:31 ◼   ► So I know I'm near the wall and he took one step on it

00:23:34 ◼   ► Just like a fluke funny step and just snapped the ligament or tendon and whatever it is in his knee

00:23:39 ◼   ► So he was out and I had to have that surgically repaired he's 43 years old and

00:23:47 ◼   ► And apparent, you know, the idea was, you know, he didn't say officially, but everybody seems to think that last year

00:23:52 ◼   ► he was planning to be his last year and he just didn't want to go down, you know, go out like that.

00:23:57 ◼   ► So he did all the work to rehab. He's back this year and he's amazing. He's 43 years old. He had a complete

00:24:04 ◼   ► ligament tear in his knee a year ago. And at this point he's appeared in 16 games and

00:24:10 ◼   ► he has 16 saves. What's his, what's his, well,

00:24:14 ◼   ► ERA does ERAs do you still have an ERAs were as relief pitcher does that still matter it does it's like around two which is

00:24:21 ◼   ► amazing

00:24:22 ◼   ► That's insane

00:24:24 ◼   ► He's there's like maybe three people in sports in the last ten years that I would sit around and watch and he's one of them

00:24:29 ◼   ► He posted that video. It was that you yeah, you know of course you're the only one who opposed this

00:24:34 ◼   ► So they track his his breaking pitch. Yeah, it's isn't that it's it's

00:24:41 ◼   ► It's hard to be a grown-up and then realize

00:24:43 ◼   ► How many things and we walk around all day, right? We we break up our day by beverage

00:24:49 ◼   ► We posted the internet and then we don't think that much about how really close we are to

00:24:55 ◼   ► Basically being ruined all the time, you know, we go out and stand by a street where cars are going by at

00:25:01 ◼   ► You know 40 or 60 miles an hour I get on this multi-ton train

00:25:05 ◼   ► That's being driven by a crazy person and I don't think about like how closely I'm to dying all the time

00:25:11 ◼   ► And in that instance, what could be more of like a freak accident?

00:25:14 ◼   ► And that guy's—I mean, admittedly, as you say, he's not a young man, but still, you know,

00:25:19 ◼   ► he needs every part of his body to be working to do what he does.

00:25:22 ◼   ► It's amazing. And it's one of those things where I know that, you know,

00:25:26 ◼   ► I post Yankee stuff occasionally to my website. A lot of people do that.

00:25:30 ◼   ► That's Death Staring Fireball? Is that what it is?

00:25:32 ◼   ► Yeah. But the Mariano Rivera stuff, when I do, I often get email from people who say,

00:25:37 ◼   ► "I don't even know the rules of baseball, but that's amazing."

00:25:39 ◼   ► That thing last year where the New York Times had the thing that tracked his pitches was fascinating.

00:25:45 ◼   ► Even our good friend Guy English who lives in Montreal said, "I don't even hardly even know the rules of baseball."

00:25:53 ◼   ► But he was like, "That was amazing."

00:25:55 ◼   ► Well, I think that sports team might have played our sports team in an important event a few years ago.

00:26:02 ◼   ► One of the local sports teams played the Yankee sports team and we watched it.

00:26:06 ◼   ► was my first exposure to that guy and I have no allegiance to anything in sports

00:26:11 ◼   ► apart from publicly not enjoying it but watching that guy pitch what it's like

00:26:17 ◼   ► what's watching like it's like Perlman or something or anything Malmsteen you're

00:26:20 ◼   ► just sitting there and you're going how how is this happening and I mentioned

00:26:24 ◼   ► this on the back to work program a couple shows ago but like the thing I

00:26:28 ◼   ► really admire about that guy is how steely he is how he how seemingly un

00:26:33 ◼   ► like he can't be unhinged. Right. If there's anything I'd... Serene. Yeah, I guess so, but like

00:26:40 ◼   ► he, yeah, that's a good word for it. He's imperturbable, really. You know, and you

00:26:45 ◼   ► know, I'm not a hippie-dippie sort of guy, but there is something almost mystical

00:26:48 ◼   ► about him. He has a serenity to him that is, it's inspiring, honestly. He's just

00:26:56 ◼   ► very different. There is something very, very different about him. Right, and he

00:27:00 ◼   ► he can come up there and just throw impossible pitch after impossible pitch.

00:27:05 ◼   ► And then finally somebody hits his impossible pitch and gets like a

00:27:09 ◼   ► two-run homer and then he goes straight back to throwing impossible pitches. And

00:27:13 ◼   ► that to me is a model. If I could add one pattern of grit to my life,

00:27:19 ◼   ► it would be the ability to do that instead of sitting and crying like a

00:27:22 ◼   ► little girl when this lightest thing goes wrong. You know what I mean?

00:27:25 ◼   ► If there's anything that's inspirational about sports, yeah I know

00:27:28 ◼   ► It's about family and blah blah, but like to me that that's the thing is to look at somebody like that

00:27:31 ◼   ► There's nothing they used to say about Tiger Woods who I think is a golfer they used to say

00:27:36 ◼   ► You know that you don't start you don't practice less when you become a pro you practice more

00:27:41 ◼   ► And I don't know I think that's inspiring

00:27:44 ◼   ► Yeah, and he's in a weird thing too is that he plays the position that you know for those who don't follow baseball

00:27:51 ◼   ► It's fairly easy concept is you know you're a pitcher and most you know you think of pitchers you think of the guys as the guy

00:27:56 ◼   ► who starts the game and you're first inning, you're the pitcher and you pitch until your arm gets tired and then other guys come in.

00:28:03 ◼   ► And there's like a pretty average-ish number. Like they'll start when it gets over what like 60 pitches? Like you get to a certain amount

00:28:09 ◼   ► and you go, "Wow, this guy's still in there and he's throwing this many pitches."

00:28:12 ◼   ► Yeah, like 60-70 is when you start thinking, "Let's keep an eye on him."

00:28:16 ◼   ► He's really on the right side of the curve at that point.

00:28:19 ◼   ► Right, and then 100 is generally considered, in the modern game is considered a lot. In the old days

00:28:23 ◼   ► they would just let guys pitch until their arms fell off.

00:28:26 ◼   ► And then, you know, but in general the starting pitchers are the best pitchers.

00:28:30 ◼   ► And then the relief pitchers are guys who are good, but really good in small doses

00:28:34 ◼   ► or really good in particular situations. Like this guy gets out left-handers and

00:28:39 ◼   ► you just bring them in

00:28:40 ◼   ► against the left-handed guy and then you take them out. It's a much more

00:28:43 ◼   ► defensive kind of pitching in some ways?

00:28:44 ◼   ► Yeah, situational I think is, you know,

00:28:48 ◼   ► in the modern game is that you bring in these guys for certain situations.

00:28:52 ◼   ► But then you get all the way to the end of the pitching staff

00:28:54 ◼   ► and almost every team has a guy that they call the closer and that's Mariano Rivera

00:28:59 ◼   ► and that's a guy who you only bring in when you have a lead and it's a small lead because

00:29:04 ◼   ► if it's a big lead you don't bother wasting him because you don't want his arm to be too

00:29:07 ◼   ► tired for the next day.

00:29:08 ◼   ► But I forget.

00:29:11 ◼   ► There's a stat called the save and I think the save is if you can only get a save as

00:29:16 ◼   ► a pitcher if the tying run comes to the on deck circle.

00:29:21 ◼   ► In other words, if the tying run is going to come up next, you can get a save.

00:29:26 ◼   ► So it's got to be, you know, two, three runs or something like that.

00:29:29 ◼   ► It's a stupid stat, really.

00:29:31 ◼   ► But in other words, though, you only come in in the ninth inning, the last inning, in

00:29:37 ◼   ► a game where your team has a narrow lead.

00:29:41 ◼   ► So every inning that the guy pitches in general, I mean, every once in a while, if he goes

00:29:45 ◼   ► like a week without coming in, because there wasn't a safe situation, they'll bring them

00:29:49 ◼   ► in because you know, they don't want them to go a week without ever throwing. But in

00:29:52 ◼   ► general, the closer only comes in, in a high pressure situation. And the only other case

00:29:59 ◼   ► where you bring a closer in would be at home in a tie game. So any game where your team

00:30:04 ◼   ► has a narrow lead in the last inning or or a tie in the in home game is when you come

00:30:10 ◼   ► in. And so it tends because as the home team, you would get one more at bat, right.

00:30:19 ◼   ► So it's any kind of professional sports, there's obviously a lot of pressure involved in.

00:30:23 ◼   ► There's thousands of fans and all this attention and stuff like that.

00:30:26 ◼   ► And I'm not saying that if you're a starting pitcher and it's the third inning of just

00:30:31 ◼   ► one of 162 games in May in the season and it's the middle of May and a long season ahead

00:30:38 ◼   ► of you, that the third inning of any one particular game isn't high pressure.

00:30:43 ◼   ► you know come on baseball's a little you know lugubrious whereas the closer is

00:30:50 ◼   ► always high pressure and so it tends to attract personalities like what's his

00:30:55 ◼   ► name out there in your town the beard oh that one crazy guy with the beard yeah I

00:31:01 ◼   ► don't know these national league guys but you know I mean these guys who are

00:31:03 ◼   ► eccentrics guys who are very very high strong you know wild characters and they

00:31:12 ◼   ► don't tend to last very long and it tends to be guys who can throw the ball exceedingly

00:31:16 ◼   ► hard and fast and then you know they burn out because it's such a high pressure situation.

00:31:21 ◼   ► Mariano Rivera has been doing it for 16 or 17 years which is just it's just unprecedented.

00:31:27 ◼   ► It's like being I don't know like like a you know like on the bomb squad or something. Well

00:31:32 ◼   ► especially especially today and um boy thanks for getting me into my area of expertise which is

00:31:37 ◼   ► sports ball but you're right into it. Thank you thank you can we get back to vaccines after this?

00:31:42 ◼   ► By the way, breastfeeding, terrible idea.

00:31:45 ◼   ► Email Sean.

00:31:49 ◼   ► You guys, I read a thing.

00:31:50 ◼   ► Turns out formula, actually formula and putting your child into a dryer, literally the dryer

00:31:55 ◼   ► at your home.

00:31:56 ◼   ► Put it in there.

00:31:57 ◼   ► Don't turn it on and leave a crack in it, but just give them formula.

00:32:00 ◼   ► They'll be fine.

00:32:03 ◼   ► This is apparently especially true.

00:32:04 ◼   ► It's true in baseball.

00:32:05 ◼   ► It's true in basketball, but from everything I hear is that it's extremely true in football

00:32:10 ◼   ► is they're getting bigger, they're getting faster, they're getting better trained.

00:32:13 ◼   ► And you have to be more...

00:32:17 ◼   ► Boy, why are we talking about this? You have to be so much more

00:32:21 ◼   ► really, truly athletic than... Look at Babe Ruth.

00:32:24 ◼   ► I mean, Babe Ruth wouldn't be able to survive a whole game of handing out peanuts today.

00:32:29 ◼   ► You know? He's a, you know, a slugger, as they say. Not a slugger always

00:32:34 ◼   ► can note

00:32:34 ◼   ► that you also strike out a lot, that you also... In the sense that if you hit it,

00:32:38 ◼   ► you're gonna hit it real far.

00:32:39 ◼   ► It doesn't always connote that. I think it's... But slugging average would be the amount of times that you're able to...

00:32:45 ◼   ► What counts as slugging? Is it always a home run?

00:32:48 ◼   ► No, it's the number of bases you get out of the hit. So in other words, I guess slugger hits more doubles...

00:32:52 ◼   ► Not just home runs, but doubles and triples.

00:32:54 ◼   ► But I mean, the athleticism of being a football player today, you know, the escalating...

00:33:00 ◼   ► ...changes in the technology and the training and all of that stuff, you know, it's...

00:33:06 ◼   ► I have to imagine that's also to some extent true in baseball, where as you say, you would

00:33:10 ◼   ► have… Ken Burns' baseball is failing me at the moment. But Christie Brinkley, what

00:33:18 ◼   ► was the name of that baseball player? Sure, Atkinson. What was his name?

00:33:21 ◼   ► Oh, Christie Turlington.

00:33:22 ◼   ► Turlington. That's right. You can bring on Christie Turlington or Goose Gossage or

00:33:27 ◼   ► Raleigh Fingers. Anyway, you could be somebody…

00:33:30 ◼   ► Great mustache.

00:33:31 ◼   ► Oh, man. He was the Roll-Aids Relief Man of the Year of memory servers. Do you remember

00:33:35 ◼   ► that when we were kids. Yeah, yeah, I do. It was sponsored by Roll-Aids. Christy

00:33:40 ◼   ► Mathewson. Ah, that was the guy. I love PBS and baseball. But, um, 1880. I don't know, I'm

00:33:46 ◼   ► not sure I'm going with this, except that today it seems like it must be, it always

00:33:50 ◼   ► seems still, I actually did hear this one time, I was waiting for a hot dog, and

00:33:53 ◼   ► everything I know about TV basically comes from Tumblr and where I get my hot

00:33:57 ◼   ► dog, and they said, somebody said something like, described one of the

00:34:02 ◼   ► people playing the game as being extremely athletic. And that still bothers me. But,

00:34:08 ◼   ► you know, athleticism, obviously, it's more than just simply being an athlete. And it

00:34:14 ◼   ► is so funny to even, dude, even when, I guess you two, yeah, we're not that far apart, but

00:34:19 ◼   ► when we were kids, you go back and you watch one of those, you know, I don't know if iTunes

00:34:22 ◼   ► still has this, but I used to buy those MLB like old games you could watch on iTunes.

00:34:27 ◼   ► You know what I mean? Like I went in and bought the Reds versus the Red Sox 75 World Series

00:34:33 ◼   ► game. You know, I think at one time you can go and buy the one where Reggie Jackson hits

00:34:36 ◼   ► 40 home runs or whatever in that one game. But it's so strange to see what those people

00:34:41 ◼   ► look like. Do you remember Fernando Valenzuela?

00:34:44 ◼   ► Yep. Fernando Mania.

00:34:46 ◼   ► Or was it, who's the one Letterman used to make fun of? Was it Phil Nicro?

00:34:49 ◼   ► Oh, I don't know.

00:34:50 ◼   ► It was one of the Nicros. But you know, I mean, the guy looked like a bouncer. You know,

00:34:56 ◼   ► Valenzuela looked like a guy who would come and cut your lawn.

00:34:59 ◼   ► He was short, he was...

00:35:01 ◼   ► He was bulbous, John.

00:35:03 ◼   ► Pancho.

00:35:05 ◼   ► It's a little racist.

00:35:06 ◼   ► Pancho is what you're thinking of.

00:35:09 ◼   ► But today you see these guys and it's just the level of training that people

00:35:13 ◼   ► get.

00:35:13 ◼   ► And again, it's a lot like the Gulf Wars.

00:35:16 ◼   ► We can prevent so many kinds of injuries with training,

00:35:20 ◼   ► but that just means the injuries move to a different spot, right?

00:35:23 ◼   ► And, yeah, I don't know.

00:35:25 ◼   ► Well, that's one of the things I love about baseball, though, is that baseball is the

00:35:28 ◼   ► one sport where a guy like Fernando, you know, a short, fat guy can come up and all of a

00:35:34 ◼   ► sudden be a sensation, whereas Fernando was never going to make it into the NBA.

00:35:38 ◼   ► Right?

00:35:39 ◼   ► Right.

00:35:40 ◼   ► Yeah, you don't see him being like a decathlete.

00:35:46 ◼   ► I don't watch nearly as much basketball as I used to.

00:35:48 ◼   ► Basketball is the thing I've given up.

00:35:49 ◼   ► And that's what you've played the most of.

00:35:51 ◼   ► Yeah, it is.

00:35:53 ◼   ► the sport I actually was, had some aptitude for. I don't watch it anymore.

00:35:58 ◼   ► Not because I don't like it, but just I had, you know, there's only so much time.

00:36:00 ◼   ► And I've, you know, got work and a family.

00:36:02 ◼   ► Sure.

00:36:02 ◼   ► Now that the NBA playoffs are on, one thing I've noted, and it's what you're saying,

00:36:07 ◼   ► NBA players look like action figures now. Like when we were, you know, like...

00:36:14 ◼   ► Think about Dennis, when I first saw Dennis Rodman or Charles Barkley, like when you would first,

00:36:18 ◼   ► when I first thought of Charles Barkley, I just thought he was really big. But that guy was just

00:36:21 ◼   ► It was brawny as hell.

00:36:23 ◼   ► Yeah, he was just—

00:36:25 ◼   ► They didn't look like that.

00:36:26 ◼   ► Like, Wilt Chamberlain did not look like that.

00:36:29 ◼   ► You know what?

00:36:34 ◼   ► Larry Bird.

00:36:35 ◼   ► Sure, Larry Bird.

00:36:36 ◼   ► He could have been a pitcher.

00:36:37 ◼   ► You know that guy.

00:36:38 ◼   ► Right.

00:36:39 ◼   ► But, you know, Bird and Magic Johnson are good comparisons.

00:36:42 ◼   ► Obviously, they were very tall.

00:36:43 ◼   ► Both of them were 6'9".

00:36:44 ◼   ► So, I mean, that's enormously tall.

00:36:46 ◼   ► Is that right?

00:36:47 ◼   ► Larry Bird was that tall?

00:36:49 ◼   ► Larry Bird and Magic Johnson were both 6'9", like all of the many that they came out, you

00:36:54 ◼   ► know, they played each other in college, they played each other in pros, they were the exact

00:36:58 ◼   ► same height, 6'9", which is very, very tall.

00:37:00 ◼   ► But you know, you look at pictures of them from their heyday and they were kind of like

00:37:03 ◼   ► string bean type guys, whereas the NBA players now, they're ripped.

00:37:08 ◼   ► Like –

00:37:09 ◼   ► Has the game become more physical in that time, do you think?

00:37:14 ◼   ► You know, it's – I don't know.

00:37:16 ◼   ► I don't know and I'm not – I don't watch enough to say.

00:37:18 ◼   ► I think so.

00:37:19 ◼   ► has become a little certainly become a lot faster than it used to be I

00:37:23 ◼   ► definitely think so and I think that I do and I think that the guys you know to

00:37:29 ◼   ► keep up that they really you know I work out like non-stop in between games I

00:37:35 ◼   ► don't know I mean well most of what I know about again most of what I know

00:37:39 ◼   ► about tennis comes from watching my mother play and reading David Foster

00:37:42 ◼   ► Wallace but I will tell you this watching say Bjorn Borg and John

00:37:47 ◼   ► McEnroe in 1980 versus watching tennis today, it feels like a completely different affair.

00:37:52 ◼   ► There's so many aces now. There's just so much of it depends on having, and I think

00:37:56 ◼   ► I've given to believe this has been true for a while, it's just kind of not as fun to watch.

00:38:00 ◼   ► It would be like watching a hockey game where it's all about hitting the puck from the other

00:38:04 ◼   ► side, like the net on the other side. You're like, "Well, I kind of like the volleying."

00:38:07 ◼   ► You know, that's kind of what makes, that's what makes soccer, to me, one of the most

00:38:11 ◼   ► interesting things to watch full stop, is that it is extremely athletic. They're running

00:38:15 ◼   ► for whatever, 90 minutes, however long it is. And they're moving that whole time. And

00:38:21 ◼   ► it really is very much about teamwork.

00:38:23 ◼   ► And to be honest, another thing I love about basketball is almost everybody's involved

00:38:28 ◼   ► almost all the time. You know?

00:38:31 ◼   ► Yeah. Well, you know.

00:38:33 ◼   ► I have to ask—

00:38:34 ◼   ► There's more of a—you could parlay this. I mean, I can't believe we're spending

00:38:37 ◼   ► the whole show talking about sports. But—

00:38:38 ◼   ► I have a series of questions I would like to get to before we leave.

00:38:43 ◼   ► Alright. But we could parlay that into something about, you know, like a back-to-work type,

00:38:48 ◼   ► you know, collaboration type thing. Basketball is definitely a sport where if you have one

00:38:53 ◼   ► guy on the team who's an asshole, it doesn't matter how good the team is. You're probably

00:38:57 ◼   ► going to lose.

00:38:58 ◼   ► Yeah. Right.

00:38:59 ◼   ► You know, like if the team—one guy on the court who doesn't get along with the other

00:39:02 ◼   ► four, and the more talented team might lose.

00:39:07 ◼   ► If he's not on the same page, like in terms of, you know, not just knowing like which

00:39:11 ◼   ► kind of defense we're going to play and stuff like that. But with five people on your team,

00:39:18 ◼   ► you each have to be giving at least 20 percent. You've got to be thinking so many moves ahead

00:39:23 ◼   ► because you're going to be called upon to do—even if you don't handle the ball. At

00:39:27 ◼   ► least in football, everybody's got a guy to protect. But in that instance, it seems

00:39:32 ◼   ► like you have to be thinking so many moves ahead and so quickly and based on communicating

00:39:37 ◼   ► so well and knowing the patterns of what the other guys are likely to do that you're

00:39:41 ◼   ► you're going to be in the right place at the right time.

00:39:43 ◼   ► Let me do a sponsor break.

00:39:44 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, that'd be great.

00:39:45 ◼   ► Let me tell you about--

00:39:47 ◼   ► now look, I famously--

00:39:48 ◼   ► I don't do this on purpose.

00:39:49 ◼   ► I really don't.

00:39:50 ◼   ► I don't know how to pronounce a lot of words.

00:39:52 ◼   ► So like, I just told you before about my upcoming live episode

00:39:55 ◼   ► with the Windows Azure, A-Z-U-R-E.

00:39:58 ◼   ► I pronounced it when they sponsored the show

00:39:59 ◼   ► a couple episodes ago, Azure.

00:40:01 ◼   ► I thought that that word, it's like a shade of blue.

00:40:04 ◼   ► I thought it meant--

00:40:05 ◼   ► for 39 years of my life, for 40, however the hell old I am,

00:40:09 ◼   ► I thought the word was pronounced "Azur."

00:40:11 ◼   ► I didn't know, but apparently it's "Azur."

00:40:14 ◼   ► Well, here's the thing.

00:40:16 ◼   ► I don't know how to pronounce--

00:40:16 ◼   ► - It's not "Azur"?

00:40:17 ◼   ► - Azur, yeah.

00:40:20 ◼   ► Azur, yeah.

00:40:21 ◼   ► I don't know, but you know.

00:40:23 ◼   ► Like I said, it's part of the deal that sponsors get

00:40:26 ◼   ► is that you get the attention of the audience

00:40:29 ◼   ► and you get a couple of unique pronunciations from me.

00:40:32 ◼   ► Here's the deal.

00:40:34 ◼   ► This week's first sponsor is a company called MailRoute.

00:40:37 ◼   ► Now it's M-A-I-L-R-O-U-T-E.

00:40:41 ◼   ► Now would you say mail route or mail route?

00:40:43 ◼   ► - Are you asking me?

00:40:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, okay, I'm asking you, Marlon.

00:40:47 ◼   ► - Okay, if I'm using it out of the context of that product,

00:40:51 ◼   ► I would say mail route, but I think mail route scans better.

00:40:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, but I don't wanna say mail route

00:40:58 ◼   ► because then I don't want people to go and Google it

00:41:00 ◼   ► and spell it R-O-O-T.

00:41:03 ◼   ► - Oh, it's like saying pin number.

00:41:04 ◼   ► Like you could just say pin.

00:41:06 ◼   ► John Sirkis is happy, but people may not know what you mean. You say pin number, there's

00:41:10 ◼   ► no ambiguity.

00:41:11 ◼   ► Exactly. But I'm all over the place on this because I'll say Route 66.

00:41:15 ◼   ► Tell me about MailRoute.

00:41:16 ◼   ► Well, look, MailRoute, or "route" if you prefer, but it's spelled with the "u." Look, it's

00:41:23 ◼   ► a super, super simple service, and it's all based on the fact that email is still the

00:41:27 ◼   ► number one way that everybody gets in touch with each other. We've got all the different

00:41:32 ◼   ► messaging and stuff like that. But look, email is still—everybody knows it. It's the thing

00:41:35 ◼   ► we use the most. Here's the most amazing statistic. Ninety percent of every email sent on the

00:41:42 ◼   ► internet is spam. And I don't know. I think for me, it's got to be more than 90 percent

00:41:47 ◼   ► of the email I get is spam. What MailRoute does, and it's from the team that created

00:41:51 ◼   ► Microsoft Forefront. These guys have a long history of great email services. You take

00:41:58 ◼   ► your domain, your email, your domain name. You set your MX records to point to MailRoute.

00:42:05 ◼   ► Your mail goes there first, goes through their filters, then it comes to your mail server.

00:42:10 ◼   ► Takes about a second per message.

00:42:12 ◼   ► So your mail is delayed by one second.

00:42:14 ◼   ► I mean if that bothers you then, you know, I mean stop listening to my show.

00:42:18 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:42:19 ◼   ► Listen to my show if you think that's a problem.

00:42:21 ◼   ► Their spam filtering takes all the spam out and it just goes right in.

00:42:25 ◼   ► And it can take a domain or an email address that is inundated with spam and make it usable

00:42:31 ◼   ► again.

00:42:32 ◼   ► And it's just phenomenal.

00:42:34 ◼   ► you go to their website and read about and they tell you how they do it. There's no magic

00:42:38 ◼   ► involved, right? It's really, really smart, clever stuff. I talked about this last week.

00:42:42 ◼   ► I love this idea they have, this gray listing thing, which is what they do as a proper mail

00:42:48 ◼   ► server. If you have a good, clean mail server, you contact me. I'm a mail server. You're

00:42:53 ◼   ► a mail server. You contact me and you say, "I have a message for John Gruber." I can

00:42:58 ◼   ► say, "Hey, I'm not ready to take this message right now. Come back in a minute." And then

00:43:03 ◼   ► You as a proper mail server will be ready to handle that.

00:43:06 ◼   ► That's a normal situation in email communication.

00:43:09 ◼   ► And a minute later, you'll say, "Hey, I'm back.

00:43:11 ◼   ► I've got that message for John Gruber."

00:43:12 ◼   ► And I say, "Okay, here I go."

00:43:13 ◼   ► And I'll take it and I'll put it in the inbox for that account.

00:43:16 ◼   ► The thing is, is that sort of, "Hey, come back and try again in a minute.

00:43:21 ◼   ► I'm busy right now," thing doesn't work with all of the machines that send spam, which

00:43:25 ◼   ► almost all of them are, you know, they're these botnets.

00:43:30 ◼   ► You know, there are PCs that have been taken over by the malware and stuff like that.

00:43:35 ◼   ► They just blast the spam out thousands and thousands of messages a minute and never come

00:43:40 ◼   ► back to it, right?

00:43:41 ◼   ► They just have a big list of email and they blast it out.

00:43:43 ◼   ► So this little, this is one of the ways that mail route takes the spam out.

00:43:47 ◼   ► But to me, that's brilliant because it's not even getting to the point of doing the sort

00:43:52 ◼   ► of Bayesian analysis and looking at keywords and, you know, it has, you know, Viagra in

00:43:57 ◼   ► the subject and all of this sort of analysis. It's just a simple, to me, it's such a great

00:44:03 ◼   ► trick of getting on top of that from the outside. And it, you know, it's also the sort of thing

00:44:09 ◼   ► that's never going to flag a good message the wrong way. So it's a great service. They

00:44:16 ◼   ► match pricing on Postini or Forefront. All you have to do, if you're interested in this,

00:44:21 ◼   ► to check them out. It's mail route dotnet mail route dotnet not.com.net just like

00:44:28 ◼   ► Darren fireball dotnet. Check them out. And if you go to mail route dotnet slash

00:44:33 ◼   ► the talk show, it's even a little better because then they'll know you came from

00:44:36 ◼   ► the show. Here's your freebie. Just to not have confusion on the pronunciation.

00:44:44 ◼   ► there's no mail route without you.

00:44:47 ◼   ► I like that.

00:44:50 ◼   ► Mail route without you. Okay, so here's the question.

00:44:53 ◼   ► John Gruber.

00:44:56 ◼   ► What's on your mind as your potentially career ending

00:45:00 ◼   ► injury? Now you've already had a close call

00:45:04 ◼   ► about a year or two ago. You had a very close call

00:45:07 ◼   ► for somebody who types and doesn't want to talk into their computer through Perl

00:45:10 ◼   ► like John Siracusza. You've had what could

00:45:13 ◼   ► have almost been a career-ending injury. I'd like you to think even broader. You could

00:45:18 ◼   ► talk about your hand. What's a career-ending injury? What does a Mariano Rivera knee tear

00:45:25 ◼   ► look like for John Gruber?

00:45:31 ◼   ► I would say, and I'm not going to give you a note, it's your show, but it seems to me

00:45:35 ◼   ► that could be something that happens at Whole Foods. It could be something that happens

00:45:38 ◼   ► at the liquor store. You're a liberal artist. You got to go broad.

00:45:43 ◼   ► Yeah, well, head injury obviously comes to mind.

00:45:46 ◼   ► I bet there was a ton—oh, man, you don't want that.

00:45:49 ◼   ► No.

00:45:50 ◼   ► You should wear a helmet when you're right.

00:45:52 ◼   ► Right.

00:45:53 ◼   ► Head injury would obviously—I mean, I think that would—

00:45:55 ◼   ► I think a lot of people assume you've probably already had one.

00:45:57 ◼   ► Well, but maybe, you know, then, you know, I mean, it would be like one of those movies

00:46:01 ◼   ► where the guy gets conked on the head and gets a superpower, and then he gets conked

00:46:05 ◼   ► in the head again and it goes away.

00:46:06 ◼   ► Yes.

00:46:07 ◼   ► So, I mean, regardless, you know, even if my success is due to a previous head injury,

00:46:12 ◼   ► subsequent one might might take it away. And I would guess secondarily I think I

00:46:18 ◼   ► would do really poorly if I if I lost my eyesight. I think a lot of what I care

00:46:27 ◼   ► about and write about is what I see. Ah, if you got that I don't even want to

00:46:32 ◼   ► mention it but that Don Nuss disease if you got the macular degeneration. Right.

00:46:36 ◼   ► You know about that where you start losing your vision from the middle?

00:46:39 ◼   ► You know what? It's odd. I actually know a lot about it because back when I used to build websites as a freelancer, I was in charge of a website for a foundation.

00:46:51 ◼   ► Really?

00:46:52 ◼   ► For macular degeneration.

00:46:54 ◼   ► Oh boy, I'd like to give them some money. That scares the pants off of me, if I had pants.

00:46:58 ◼   ► It was actually founded by a guy who invented the Chicken McNugget.

00:47:03 ◼   ► Stop.

00:47:04 ◼   ► I swear to God, and his wife...

00:47:06 ◼   ► heard about that guy on NPR and he sold the idea to McDonald's right yep yep

00:47:10 ◼   ► but he said they had all these parts they had all these parts they didn't

00:47:13 ◼   ► know what to deal with right and they made nuggets and you know I mean he it

00:47:19 ◼   ► wasn't one of those things where he sold the idea for 15 bucks it was like he

00:47:22 ◼   ► sold the idea and had some like equity in it and I'll see that smart not like

00:47:25 ◼   ► that guy who came up with the automatic windshield wipers you know that guy got

00:47:28 ◼   ► the shaft the guy who invented yeah intermittent windshield yes intermittent

00:47:33 ◼   ► And yeah, I know exactly what you mean, right?

00:47:35 ◼   ► The guy, you know, it used to be you'd have two speeds, slow and fast, and this guy invented

00:47:40 ◼   ► the little – put a little clock on the thing, and yeah, you could say, "Wait three seconds."

00:47:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:46 ◼   ► I love that.

00:47:47 ◼   ► I –

00:47:48 ◼   ► Yeah, a guy got a sandwich out of it, like –

00:47:50 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:47:51 ◼   ► Maybe half a sandwich.

00:47:52 ◼   ► Lea Iacocca gave him, like, a leftover, like, tuna fish sandwich.

00:47:56 ◼   ► Kebaya coca.

00:47:57 ◼   ► Now, when you made your –

00:47:59 ◼   ► But anyway, the guy built a fortune on that, and his wife came down with the macular degenerate.

00:48:03 ◼   ► generation, and so he devoted the fortune that he'd made to trying to find a cure, find

00:48:09 ◼   ► help for the people.

00:48:10 ◼   ► But yeah, that's a tough one.

00:48:11 ◼   ► How cool is that?

00:48:12 ◼   ► That's like a James Burke thing.

00:48:13 ◼   ► There could be a whole Connections episode about that.

00:48:15 ◼   ► How we went from this chicken nugget to Don Nott's disease.

00:48:18 ◼   ► That's a really cool story.

00:48:19 ◼   ► Yeah, and it really is.

00:48:21 ◼   ► It is sort of like the worst way to lose your vision.

00:48:23 ◼   ► You lose it from the center out, and of course, the center is exactly...

00:48:28 ◼   ► It seems like it would be maddening.

00:48:29 ◼   ► As bad as it would be to start losing your peripheral vision.

00:48:32 ◼   ► Well, at least you could look at the thing you wanted to look at by turning your head.

00:48:36 ◼   ► Right.

00:48:37 ◼   ► Whereas macular degeneration, it's like you lose exactly what you're looking at.

00:48:39 ◼   ► I don't want to talk about it.

00:48:40 ◼   ► I don't want to talk about it anymore.

00:48:41 ◼   ► It's freaking me out.

00:48:42 ◼   ► But yeah, I think that would hurt my work.

00:48:44 ◼   ► You made your bones, if I may say, such as they are with the Daring Fireball site.

00:48:50 ◼   ► It seems to—we might have talked about this.

00:48:52 ◼   ► I forget.

00:48:53 ◼   ► You probably talked about it elsewhere.

00:48:54 ◼   ► But I feel like you made your reputation at a time when Apple was not—certainly not

00:48:59 ◼   ► Apple that they are now, but where it was, where people had every reason in the

00:49:03 ◼   ► world to be suspicious about whether Apple, you know, was gonna survive, whether

00:49:07 ◼   ► it was gonna turn into something, and then Apple, you know, got better, and you

00:49:12 ◼   ► were there for that. I mean, there must have, I wonder, I guess I'm wondering, was

00:49:15 ◼   ► there ever a time when that felt like a career-ending injury on the horizon? Like,

00:49:19 ◼   ► given that, you know what I mean? Like, given that you made, your career really

00:49:23 ◼   ► started at a time when you could provide a sane counterpoint to the people, you

00:49:28 ◼   ► know, who were constantly announcing the death of Apple. Did you worry when Apple

00:49:34 ◼   ► started getting better? I mean, it's cool because you're an Apple guy, you like

00:49:37 ◼   ► Apple, but did you ever worry that they get too good and you wouldn't have a job

00:49:39 ◼   ► anymore? No, I do, I will say though that I worry, you know, that's, I don't know

00:49:47 ◼   ► what's more statistically likely, some kind of in, probably an injury to me or

00:49:51 ◼   ► something like that, but I do worry though that if, if Apple does stop being

00:49:58 ◼   ► popular and suffers, you know, like if their next ten years are a decline

00:50:01 ◼   ► instead of the last ten years, which was this great ascent, that it would bode

00:50:06 ◼   ► poorly for, you know, the sponsorship and ad revenue that I use, you know, primarily

00:50:12 ◼   ► to earn my living. But on the other hand, I thought from the outset, I never, you

00:50:17 ◼   ► know, I think we've talked about this, I never really set out just to write about

00:50:20 ◼   ► Apple. I set out to write about whatever is on my mind, and for the last ten years

00:50:25 ◼   ► years, an awful lot of what's been on my mind is what Apple's up to.

00:50:29 ◼   ► To me, the worst thing would be if Apple got boring.

00:50:31 ◼   ► That's what I was going to say.

00:50:33 ◼   ► That was going to be my guess, because the obvious, you get bonked on the head, you get

00:50:38 ◼   ► a power, you get bonked on the head, it goes away.

00:50:39 ◼   ► That's too obvious.

00:50:40 ◼   ► It wouldn't just be a matter of Apple sucks, Apple's really doing great, Apple sucks again.

00:50:44 ◼   ► The bigger concern would be, without mentioning names, a lot of companies that I think you

00:50:48 ◼   ► and I have had a lot of respect for over the years simply got big and contracted and got

00:50:54 ◼   ► boring and got weird. And even if they just got boring, it wouldn't be fun. I mean, the

00:50:58 ◼   ► rumors I hear are that it's getting harder to retain practitioner and manager talent

00:51:09 ◼   ► at Apple just because there is a sense, not a Steve thing necessarily, but that there

00:51:13 ◼   ► is a sense that the most interesting problems at this point may have been solved. That's

00:51:18 ◼   ► just what I hear. I don't know if that's accurate or not. But at a certain point, every company

00:51:22 ◼   ► is going to-- if they're lucky, they get big enough

00:51:25 ◼   ► to where it is about scale.

00:51:27 ◼   ► And it is about a different kind of problem.

00:51:30 ◼   ► So the problem of going from iPhone-- not the problem,

00:51:33 ◼   ► but a company that can go from the iPhone

00:51:35 ◼   ► to the iPad in three years is like, wow, zing.

00:51:39 ◼   ► But making it easier for me to not have my Apple ID be broken

00:51:44 ◼   ► for two weeks is not as interesting of a headline.

00:51:47 ◼   ► Right.

00:51:47 ◼   ► But there's an awful lot of ditch digging, just not exciting work,

00:51:58 ◼   ► but just hard work that Apple obviously has to do over the next few years

00:52:03 ◼   ► just to sustain the iPhone and iPad and the stuff they already have,

00:52:07 ◼   ► which is not the sort of exciting stuff that the real A+ superstar

00:52:12 ◼   ► Mariano Rivera type engineers and designers want to be doing.

00:52:17 ◼   ► I mean, somebody at Apple over the next three, four, five years, not one person, but obviously

00:52:22 ◼   ► there's a team, is obviously just going to spend an awful lot of time just like correcting

00:52:27 ◼   ► the names of parks and putting the post office on the right side of the street and all the

00:52:32 ◼   ► map data, right?

00:52:35 ◼   ► It's not exciting work.

00:52:36 ◼   ► Like you said, somebody has got to do the work of sort of making these Apple IDs a little

00:52:43 ◼   ► bit more centralized so that you sign in once and everything is there, right? And

00:52:50 ◼   ► then you're not signing in to Game Center separately then, you know, iMessage and

00:52:56 ◼   ► and stuff like that. Not exciting work. And that is, in my experience,

00:53:00 ◼   ► having worked on a single sign-in internet for a very, very, very

00:53:06 ◼   ► large well-known company, it was unbelievable how much work was involved.

00:53:10 ◼   ► And, you know, I'm guessing at Apple this is going to be easier than a place that

00:53:13 ◼   ► that has such different silos as the place where we did this work.

00:53:16 ◼   ► But that is, whenever I want to talk to somebody and find out how much they really understand,

00:53:20 ◼   ► I'll say, "Have you ever worked on trying to implement even the most basic single sign-in

00:53:24 ◼   ► for something?"

00:53:25 ◼   ► Because it could hardly be… it's one of those horrible problems that could hardly

00:53:29 ◼   ► seem simpler to anybody else.

00:53:31 ◼   ► In a post-Google world, people are used to having a page with one or two or maybe three

00:53:38 ◼   ► fields in it, and you hit it and then a thing happens.

00:53:41 ◼   ► But in actuality, that is so hard.

00:53:43 ◼   ► If you're doing that for HR, okay, well, so you got single sign-in.

00:53:46 ◼   ► Well, first of all, all this information is by design in different places.

00:53:50 ◼   ► The stuff about your health insurance is not sitting in the same place as your, for example,

00:53:55 ◼   ► like when you were hired.

00:53:56 ◼   ► It might not be in that same thing with this, you know, updated address information.

00:54:00 ◼   ► Do we keep you signed into the extremely sensitive health data section as long as we keep you

00:54:04 ◼   ► logged into the what's happening at the picnic this weekend section?

00:54:07 ◼   ► Those are hard problems.

00:54:09 ◼   ► And then the stuff that Apple, that a lot of people, and gosh, there are so many things

00:54:12 ◼   ► everybody thinks Apple needs to do, but a common theme is that they still haven't

00:54:17 ◼   ► gotten where a lot of people would like them to be with things like web services.

00:54:20 ◼   ► And boy is that ever going to not seem super interesting to have a headline

00:54:25 ◼   ► about uptime. Justin Williams, you know Justin Williams? Yes, I was actually, yeah,

00:54:33 ◼   ► I was thinking of his hilarious post. I will link to it. It was all the things

00:54:39 ◼   ► that Apple... What is it? All the things that Apple needs to announce at WWDC.

00:54:43 ◼   ► Right. In three weeks.

00:54:45 ◼   ► No pressure.

00:54:45 ◼   ► Just to placate the internet. And it's a big long list, and it's really pretty good, actually.

00:54:50 ◼   ► It's actually good... A couple of them are a little jokey, but for the most part,

00:54:54 ◼   ► it's pretty serious. And obviously, they're not going to announce all of them.

00:54:57 ◼   ► That's it. But I mean, it's not only... But the beauty of it is, it's not just things where people

00:55:01 ◼   ► go, "It'd be neat if they made a blue iPhone." It's not stuff like that. It's stuff like...

00:55:07 ◼   ► Stuff, you hear people saying the success and longevity of this company rides on FU.

00:55:13 ◼   ► Right.

00:55:14 ◼   ► What do you have in front of you? Do you have a couple? Carpe aqua? Is that right?

00:55:18 ◼   ► He's a good man.

00:55:22 ◼   ► Everything Apple needs to introduce at WWDC to appease the internet.

00:55:27 ◼   ► Completely refreshed design language for iOS 7.

00:55:30 ◼   ► Modernized and updated system apps for iOS that match the new Ivy design language,

00:55:35 ◼   ► you know, etc, etc, multiple people on FaceTime calls, an update to iMessage that makes it reliable,

00:55:42 ◼   ► an update to iMessage that allows people to leave group chats. These are all really good features,

00:55:47 ◼   ► right? I mean, and it's a long list and there's a lot of...

00:55:49 ◼   ► But the point is, these features, you've heard a lot of people actually say.

00:55:52 ◼   ► Like...

00:55:52 ◼   ► And it's really like ditch digging. It's just... I'm not saying that there's no satisfaction in

00:55:57 ◼   ► doing it, but it's not exciting. You know, it's the sort of thing where it's hard to keep,

00:56:03 ◼   ► you know, your A+ guys working on something like that as opposed to working on

00:56:08 ◼   ► going off on their own and doing something new. When you were a developer,

00:56:12 ◼   ► I mean, I was never like a real developer, but

00:56:15 ◼   ► I mean, even just in making web pages, which is what I really did,

00:56:19 ◼   ► it was so much more interesting to me to get to make a design,

00:56:23 ◼   ► to do the UX. I mean, that was the fun brainy stuff.

00:56:27 ◼   ► And then the satisfying stuff, even all the way down to doing production graphics,

00:56:30 ◼   ► was always really fun for me. I really liked all of that.

00:56:32 ◼   ► But then something like okay, well, we're moving to this different content management system

00:56:36 ◼   ► And now we're gonna have to change hand change these you know variables in these things

00:56:41 ◼   ► We're gonna have to certainly there's a certain amount you could do in Bb

00:56:43 ◼   ► I would find a replace

00:56:44 ◼   ► But I always know for the guys who did the real developing it was never that fun

00:56:48 ◼   ► To have to take the code base and go make it work in this different place for example

00:56:53 ◼   ► This is just anecdotal

00:56:54 ◼   ► But did you ever experience that like it's one thing to get to write this Perl script that does a thing and then it's another

00:56:59 ◼   ► thing to have to go all do this like scrubbing with a toothbrush to try and

00:57:03 ◼   ► make this thing a little better it's not it's not absolutely well and that's why

00:57:07 ◼   ► I admire the developers like barebone software or the Omni group who build

00:57:15 ◼   ► apps and then spend years iterating and iterating and iterating and keeping them

00:57:20 ◼   ► up to date and keeping them relevant whereas the most exciting part is the

00:57:26 ◼   ► original version right? BB Edit 1.0 is the one that was the most exciting. It was actually

00:57:31 ◼   ► 2.1 was the first public version.

00:57:35 ◼   ► That's all for until I got a WYSIWYG editor that is literally starting in 1995 that is

00:57:41 ◼   ► pretty much that's all I used to make web pages. That was it. It was just BB Edit. I

00:57:45 ◼   ► would use the includes when they came out.

00:57:48 ◼   ► Rich I think just tweeted the other day that it was the 20th anniversary of the first public

00:57:53 ◼   ► version of BB Edit and then he said and it's worth three days away from the

00:57:56 ◼   ► first public griping about the price but that think about that 20 years working

00:58:02 ◼   ► on an editor that is still one of the top most relevant programming text

00:58:08 ◼   ► editors for the Mac right I mean that I just salute that because it is it you

00:58:13 ◼   ► know most of those 20 years most of those 20 days in the 20 years Rich

00:58:18 ◼   ► Segal's been working on the app and most of those days have not been exciting

00:58:21 ◼   ► work. It's just hard work, you know. And same with, you know, Omni Group's another

00:58:27 ◼   ► great example where these guys have been working on some of these apps.

00:58:30 ◼   ► They sweat stuff so hard, you know, and again companies I've just done some work

00:58:35 ◼   ► with, again Agile Bits. The stuff that they sweat that you will hopefully never

00:58:39 ◼   ► notice how hard they sweated it, and you have no, I mean, not that you need to

00:58:44 ◼   ► because you're the user. You're the Apple fan. You're used to, you are wonderfully

00:58:48 ◼   ► lucky and you're fortunate to not have to notice how good this is. But it is

00:58:54 ◼   ► difficult work and in the case of some of these things you've certainly been

00:58:58 ◼   ► around when you have to do a giant teardown of something. You know like

00:59:03 ◼   ► where it's almost like a Western town where all you see as the viewer are the

00:59:08 ◼   ► fronts of these stores but sometimes you know but something like Snow Leopard.

00:59:12 ◼   ► Let me ask you something. So they talked about this on the accidental tech podcast.

00:59:16 ◼   ► the TikTok Tik thing? Is that a real term or were they making that up?

00:59:19 ◼   ► No, that's a real term.

00:59:22 ◼   ► Like every, something like roughly every other OS X release, is that right? Like has some zingers.

00:59:28 ◼   ► But something like Snow Leopard was very controversial in some ways,

00:59:32 ◼   ► because to somebody at Simpleton like me, you go like, "Okay, well, where's the publish and

00:59:37 ◼   ► subscribe? Where is the theming?" Obviously, you know what I mean. Like, where's the zazz in this?

00:59:43 ◼   ► But, you know, knowing if you go actually and read what happened, I mean, they're so

00:59:47 ◼   ► that they tore the guts out and changed so much stuff about that, right?

00:59:49 ◼   ► It's it was not a trivial thing where they were just being lazy.

00:59:52 ◼   ► It's just that we couldn't, as a user, we shouldn't notice how much changed about it,

00:59:57 ◼   ► right?

00:59:58 ◼   ► Right.

00:59:59 ◼   ► And it was a tough thing to sell, I think, because of what people expect from Apple is

01:00:04 ◼   ► people expect, you know, every time Apple has an event, they expect Steve Jobs pulling

01:00:11 ◼   ► the iPhone out of his pocket and blowing it, the world away with something that seems like

01:00:16 ◼   ► it's literally from five, ten years in the future.

01:00:19 ◼   ► And then instead, they said, "Well, we went into the guts and we cleaned out a lot of

01:00:23 ◼   ► the junk."

01:00:24 ◼   ► And we modernized the plumbing and somehow pitched it in a way that didn't have people

01:00:32 ◼   ► raising pitchforks.

01:00:34 ◼   ► I do think though that it's the exact sort of thing that they could not get away with

01:00:37 ◼   ► today.

01:00:39 ◼   ► in a couple of years, but right now at this fever pitch of sort of, you know, Apple can't

01:00:46 ◼   ► do anything new without Steve Jobs' doom and gloom, they couldn't do that today.

01:00:51 ◼   ► No, no, I think you're right, but it's, yeah. Anyway, in terms of career-ending injuries,

01:00:57 ◼   ► I think you will still have a very long, live career as long as you protect your head and

01:01:00 ◼   ► let your lady do the cooking.

01:01:02 ◼   ► What about you?

01:01:04 ◼   ► Oh, my career-ending injury? I think I've already had most of them, and that's why I

01:01:08 ◼   ► what I do. I mean, this isn't much of a career, Jon. But, you know, something could always

01:01:13 ◼   ► go wrong. I've had a pinched nerve for a while, and so that's... I think I should probably

01:01:17 ◼   ► go to a doctor about that, but...

01:01:19 ◼   ► What about your voice? See, I think I...

01:01:21 ◼   ► It's pretty reedy. I sound like somebody trying to throw away a clarinet.

01:01:26 ◼   ► But what about if you got like this Larry Page thing?

01:01:28 ◼   ► Oh, if I got... Oh, if I lost my instrument. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know,

01:01:33 ◼   ► Scott Dilbert? What's his name? Adam Dilbert? He's been diagnosing him remotely. Did you

01:01:37 ◼   ► know that?

01:01:38 ◼   ► I haven't. Yeah. Scott Dilbert, the Dilbert guy. Scott Adams. Thank you. He's pretty sure he knows

01:01:45 ◼   ► what Larry Page has, because he has something very similar. And it sounds... Another one,

01:01:49 ◼   ► it's like the vocal version of macular degeneration. It's another one of those

01:01:52 ◼   ► things that sounds just awful. Or like when Rush Limbaugh had the hearing thing. That's what I live

01:01:57 ◼   ► in fear of, is waking up one day and it's like something out of the Kafka story. I wouldn't mind

01:02:03 ◼   ► waking up as a roach. I mean, my office is already a pretty good environment for that. But as you

01:02:08 ◼   ► As you get older and your body starts working with less dependability and symmetry, you

01:02:14 ◼   ► do kind of wonder, "Is there going to be a day where I wake up?"

01:02:17 ◼   ► I don't understand how Rush Limbaugh does what he does.

01:02:21 ◼   ► He's legally deaf.

01:02:24 ◼   ► They couldn't fix that.

01:02:25 ◼   ► I don't think so.

01:02:26 ◼   ► I mean, he's not like stone cold deaf, but I think he's effectively deaf, but yet somehow

01:02:33 ◼   ► does a four-hour daily radio show.

01:02:36 ◼   ► Setting aside all the jokes that I'm tempted to make, that is actually really amazing.

01:02:41 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:02:42 ◼   ► To be able to continue doing that.

01:02:43 ◼   ► You know, it just seems to me like you would do poorly.

01:02:46 ◼   ► If I got the vocal cord thing, I might have to stop doing this show.

01:02:49 ◼   ► I take your point.

01:02:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:51 ◼   ► So if I lost my voice, like, I'd have to go back to not writing or not web developing.

01:02:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:56 ◼   ► See, that would be a hard move for me.

01:02:58 ◼   ► Yeah, this is pretty much all I'm good at.

01:03:02 ◼   ► all uncomfortable doing is uh being on three or four podcasts a day. I yeah. Can I make

01:03:07 ◼   ► a I'm gonna make a possibly and I don't mean this to be disparaging. No. There is uh you know.

01:03:13 ◼   ► No I'll take any notes you give me John for sure. Well with the Larry Page thing did you see him

01:03:16 ◼   ► did you see him talk the other day? No no. And I'd you know hats off to him you know he came out the

01:03:22 ◼   ► day before I/O with a with a post and just said look here's what's been going on with my voice

01:03:26 ◼   ► for the last year and and you know that he did you know that they don't know what the cause is but he

01:03:30 ◼   ► He lost his left, use of his left vocal cord a while back.

01:03:35 ◼   ► And then the same thing, a couple of years later, the same thing started happening to

01:03:38 ◼   ► his right vocal cord, but it's not complete, but it's left him.

01:03:41 ◼   ► His voice is, a couple of people have described it as froggy.

01:03:48 ◼   ► It's not, you know, and it makes him, so it makes him quiet and he needed like a different

01:03:52 ◼   ► microphone on stage, but he did well.

01:03:54 ◼   ► And as his stint, you know, and he was on stage, it was a very long keynote.

01:03:58 ◼   ► man they were up there for like over four hours but he was on for I don't

01:04:02 ◼   ► know like 45 minutes and his voice was to me it seemed stronger at the end than

01:04:06 ◼   ► when he first came out but it does remind me of the way that like in the

01:04:12 ◼   ► Bond James Bond movies the the Bond villain usually has some kind of very

01:04:16 ◼   ► unusual and distinct like physiological oh look you got a milky eye or you got a

01:04:23 ◼   ► scar right you got a blow felt scar or something yeah you got like a metal

01:04:28 ◼   ► claws for hands or something like that, you know, and I feel like it adds a sort

01:04:32 ◼   ► of Bond villain aspect to Larry Page is that he has a very unusual froggy voice.

01:04:39 ◼   ► Oh my god. Well you know the thing is... We'll just cut that part out. Yeah, you know the

01:04:45 ◼   ► other thing is like he's got a lot of dough. If he were to get a claw hand, I

01:04:49 ◼   ► think that would make be very distinctive. For example, I would know

01:04:52 ◼   ► that it's him versus the other guy. I don't know who's who. He's also proposing to me

01:04:58 ◼   ► some sort of Bond villain-esque grandiose things like he...

01:05:01 ◼   ► You sure you don't have to get an Eric Schmidt?

01:05:03 ◼   ► No Larry Page he offhandedly said look there's a you know wouldn't it be nice if technologists

01:05:09 ◼   ► had like their own special island where we could we could have our own laws and we could

01:05:14 ◼   ► try out new things that not maybe the you know the real world isn't ready for yet. You

01:05:20 ◼   ► know we could get rid of all these pesky regulations on medical records and stuff like that and

01:05:25 ◼   ► see what happens if Google could have access to everybody's medical records in this controlled

01:05:29 ◼   ► environment without worrying about it.

01:05:30 ◼   ► There's no way he said that.

01:05:31 ◼   ► No, I swear to God he did.

01:05:32 ◼   ► Oh my God.

01:05:33 ◼   ► I swear to God.

01:05:34 ◼   ► Read Matt Honan on it.

01:05:36 ◼   ► I have bookmarked your link to that.

01:05:37 ◼   ► I haven't read it yet.

01:05:38 ◼   ► He's saying basically in this – in this – Testopian.

01:05:41 ◼   ► In this utopian environment, we would finally get to do what our league of let's say developers

01:05:47 ◼   ► would really love to do.

01:05:48 ◼   ► We want to get our hands around this information and see what we can do with it.

01:05:51 ◼   ► Right.

01:05:52 ◼   ► you know when you start talking about setting up islands you know I mean you

01:05:56 ◼   ► know you're like Cobra Commander right oh there's no question about it

01:06:00 ◼   ► remember that time that Cobra Commander they like set off a nuke in the in the

01:06:05 ◼   ► Gulf of Mexico and it made it an island rise up and then they planted a Cobra

01:06:09 ◼   ► flag on it and boom they had a country it was that easy yeah it was that easy

01:06:13 ◼   ► because if you once you put your flag on the land then that's yours and they

01:06:17 ◼   ► you know you made new land I know you're not a comic fan but when you get a

01:06:20 ◼   ► chance Google for Magneto and Genosha because it sounds a little bit like this

01:06:24 ◼   ► X-Men villain who on a variety of occasions I think he started his own

01:06:28 ◼   ► meteor at one point he had a utopia or dystopia if you like for these things

01:06:34 ◼   ► and that sounds kind of like what you're talking about it sounds to me like this

01:06:37 ◼   ► fella is just a little bit away from like a like a purple metal hood and

01:06:41 ◼   ► maybe some laser beam sharks. Let's be honest John like Metal Claw

01:06:46 ◼   ► notwithstanding he's got the dough he's got the dough and he's got the developers

01:06:50 ◼   ► They could be, again in my parlance, it would be more like Hydra, or in your case like these

01:06:53 ◼   ► G.I. Joe fellas.

01:06:55 ◼   ► He could certainly have his own standing army of people wearing, Google Glass, Google Glass,

01:07:01 ◼   ► perfect for the soldier of the future.

01:07:04 ◼   ► Well, and these self-driving cars, right?

01:07:06 ◼   ► Put a couple of guns on those self-driving cars and you've got an army, right?

01:07:09 ◼   ► Oh, you've got to cut all this out.

01:07:11 ◼   ► I think we, you know, I'm going to think about this now because there is so much there.

01:07:16 ◼   ► So he's going to get all the information.

01:07:17 ◼   ► He's got the standing army.

01:07:18 ◼   ► He's got an island.

01:07:19 ◼   ► claw arm, we're pretty sure he may eventually have a cool synthesized voice.

01:07:23 ◼   ► All he needs now is he needs some kind of an affectation like, again, maybe

01:07:29 ◼   ► he's really into playing competitive chess or maybe he's got a bullwhip.

01:07:33 ◼   ► Shouldn't he have something that he could put into the electronic claw that

01:07:37 ◼   ► would give him, like immediately, if you had an action figure of, it's Larry Page,

01:07:40 ◼   ► not Sergey, Larry, right? If you had something where you could make an

01:07:44 ◼   ► action figure of him. He'd have your data in one hand and a whip in the other.

01:07:50 ◼   ► Balls. See, you'd have your balls. Is that it? What does your data look like? It's just like a

01:07:58 ◼   ► big glowing sphere of ones and zeros. And he has this little Igor guy come up who says, "You could

01:08:03 ◼   ► just go out and get to know name." Right, that would be Eric Schmidt. Let me do the second

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01:10:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:31 ◼   ► But I'm gonna be thinking about that all day. We might want to wrap back around to that in a little while.

01:10:35 ◼   ► I think with a little preparation we could come up with a pretty-- we could pitch. I think we could pitch that idea.

01:10:39 ◼   ► And the thing is, if you're a supervillain, you know you're a supervillain. And it's like in the Avengers.

01:10:44 ◼   ► Iron Man-- no spoilers-- but Iron Man figures out that Loki's a lot like him. Right?

01:10:49 ◼   ► He figures out that part of the thing with Loki is he wants to be seen doing-- he wants to be noticed.

01:10:55 ◼   ► So maybe it's the kind of thing where Larry Page would actually fund it himself.

01:10:59 ◼   ► maybe as like an infomercial for Page Island.

01:11:03 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe that's a better analogy than to the Bond villain, because the Bond villains always

01:11:11 ◼   ► have some kind of dastardly plot to take over the world. And, you know, it's something that

01:11:18 ◼   ► needs to be stopped. Whereas in a comic book, you got a long term, it's a saga, right? And,

01:11:24 ◼   ► you know, a Bond thing is going to get wrapped up in two hours and the guy's probably going to be

01:11:28 ◼   ► be dead. Whereas the comic book thing is going to go on for 20, 30 years and it's going to

01:11:32 ◼   ► cycle around. Right? Because you know what I mean? Like we're going to be talking about

01:11:35 ◼   ► Google 20 years from now. And Larry Page is probably still going to be the CEO.

01:11:38 ◼   ► Well, there's different kinds of supervillains, whether it's in Bond or whether it's in whatever.

01:11:43 ◼   ► And I think as with a lot of people have preferences in certain kinds of time travel timeline ideas,

01:11:48 ◼   ► I think in this case everybody's got different kinds of villains that they really like. You

01:11:52 ◼   ► got – what are some classics? You got the villain who has a grudge. Right? It could

01:11:57 ◼   ► somebody like, you know, "Oh, Dr. Octopus, he wants to get that Spider-Man because

01:12:02 ◼   ► he's so much cooler than him." I think there's always the money villain.

01:12:05 ◼   ► There is, now, was Goldfinger, do you think he was, he was kind of a straight up

01:12:08 ◼   ► money villain, right? Yeah, he, well, yeah, he wanted, yeah, he was a money villain.

01:12:12 ◼   ► You've got the, you got the, what about, what about the guy from No Country for

01:12:16 ◼   ► Old Men? He, he's, he is a, he's a revenge grudge villain, right? Yeah, he's a code of

01:12:23 ◼   ► honored. He's going back. He's going back after M for what she did to his jaw, right?

01:12:28 ◼   ► Yeah. Okay. That's great. How great was that scene when he takes that thing out?

01:12:32 ◼   ► Oh, that was great. I mean, my wife watched it like three times. Yeah. And then you got,

01:12:37 ◼   ► so you got that. And then you've got, of course, you've always got the, the anarchistic,

01:12:41 ◼   ► no, you've got the sociopath, psychotic kind of person who just wants to cause mayhem.

01:12:47 ◼   ► Kind of villain. You're a joker in the, the Dark Knight. Do you have a sense of it? No,

01:12:52 ◼   ► I'm not saying Larry Page is a super villain with a claw for hand, but if he were, if he were, if he were,

01:12:56 ◼   ► what would the nature of his villainy be? Does he, doesn't have to be evil, you know?

01:13:00 ◼   ► I would say, I would say he's the misguided

01:13:02 ◼   ► utopian.

01:13:04 ◼   ► That he actually, it does not, I do not believe that he is a bad person or that he has bad intentions.

01:13:11 ◼   ► I actually think that he truly is a utopian with the best interests of-

01:13:17 ◼   ► That's what Magneto is too. That's, that's super interesting.

01:13:20 ◼   ► at heart. But he's, but he is, I think, misguided and erroneous, and that it's a,

01:13:26 ◼   ► you know, you know, like if Dr. Frankenstein had good intentions. That's a good point. So if you

01:13:34 ◼   ► could, you could go even with the best intentions and a self-driving island and everybody wearing

01:13:39 ◼   ► half a pair of glasses, you know, you could create an environment. It seems like everybody would be

01:13:44 ◼   ► happy even if you're not allowed to live on the island like it would be better

01:13:49 ◼   ► like and and and what I say by that is that I would be better if I'm wrong and

01:13:53 ◼   ► that he gets everything he wants and it works out the way he's saying because

01:13:59 ◼   ► that would actually be great for everybody yeah right what I'm saying is

01:14:03 ◼   ► that I think what I think is that this stuff is just gonna be a disaster in

01:14:09 ◼   ► terms of privacy and other aspects like that and that the utopian things aren't

01:14:14 ◼   ► It's hard to see right now for me, it's hard to see how it turns out great, you know?

01:14:19 ◼   ► But, you know, as Churchill said, you know, history is written by the guys with the claw hands.

01:14:24 ◼   ► Yeah. We only have a minute or two, but I do think there is something weird going on.

01:14:27 ◼   ► I feel like, you know, and I feel like the tech stuff, it goes through great cycles,

01:14:31 ◼   ► and it's what makes it such an interesting thing to write about.

01:14:33 ◼   ► And I do feel like we're reaching this inflection point where things are dividing.

01:14:39 ◼   ► Dividing and and the Google Glass really as much as it right now

01:14:44 ◼   ► It's just a curiosity that there's only you know

01:14:46 ◼   ► A couple thousand pairs that have been put out in people's hands and they cost this ridiculous amount and they're not trying to sell it

01:14:51 ◼   ► To the mass market yet, but it's clearly one of the most divisive things that's come out in

01:14:57 ◼   ► Ever since I've been writing about technology, right and Nick Nick Bilton had a great piece in the New York Times today

01:15:04 ◼   ► He's at the Google I/o conference

01:15:06 ◼   ► Which and at this place he says there might be you know it seems as though there might be even a thousand people here wearing

01:15:12 ◼   ► Google Glass right so instead of like where people out in the valley out in San Francisco like hey

01:15:17 ◼   ► I actually saw a guy at the pizza joint the other day wearing Google Glass wow I saw somebody here you go to

01:15:22 ◼   ► Easy peed was eating alone

01:15:25 ◼   ► You go to Google IO, and there's a thousand people wearing it, and he you know Nick Bilton really seemed to it's a great piece

01:15:32 ◼   ► I'll put it in the show notes, but

01:15:34 ◼   ► It really seems like you know it's it's a divergence

01:15:37 ◼   ► You know and he had this thing where he was talking to a guy who was talking about how great the winky app is

01:15:42 ◼   ► Which is the actual name of the app and that's the one that takes a photo by an eye gesture like a winking right?

01:15:47 ◼   ► Sure

01:15:47 ◼   ► and

01:15:48 ◼   ► The guy was saying that he's addicted to it and that he wasn't wearing his glass the other day

01:15:52 ◼   ► And he was winking to take a picture and nothing happened

01:15:54 ◼   ► And he realized that his brains been wired that he just assumes that when he winks he's gonna get a home

01:16:00 ◼   ► And all right, really so yeah and then Bilton says and then you know, he's got real creeped out

01:16:06 ◼   ► And he thought well, I'm gonna I got to go to the restroom

01:16:08 ◼   ► I'm gonna go take a leak and I'm gonna get away from this for a little bit and he went in and it's you know

01:16:12 ◼   ► It's a tech conference the line to get in a men's room is long. You got to wait

01:16:15 ◼   ► He waits he waits and then you know

01:16:17 ◼   ► You're an all opens up and he goes to take a leak and he looks and the four guys next to him are all wearing

01:16:22 ◼   ► Glass and all sort of looking around while they're taking a leak in the urinal

01:16:28 ◼   ► Right and that that's something that's weird. That's anything to indicate the activity

01:16:32 ◼   ► Is there anything like a red or there's nothing to indicate what's happening inside the glass to somebody who's not wearing it?

01:16:39 ◼   ► No, no, you have no idea. Oh, man

01:16:42 ◼   ► Well, you know, I think you know, I think you're right if I understand what you're saying. I think you're right. It's

01:16:49 ◼   ► It's it's so hard to tell until the time has passed like when something important has happened

01:16:54 ◼   ► I mean you could think something important happened, but you know

01:16:57 ◼   ► Now, it seemed like a really big deal

01:17:00 ◼   ► when Google search came out, because as a consumer,

01:17:03 ◼   ► we saw how different that was, even from the, at the time,

01:17:06 ◼   ► amazing Alta Vista.

01:17:07 ◼   ► But the real story, in some ways, was advertising.

01:17:09 ◼   ► What made Google Google, in some ways,

01:17:11 ◼   ► I think we could probably agree, is advertising.

01:17:14 ◼   ► It was a MacGuffin in some ways.

01:17:16 ◼   ► The search was great.

01:17:17 ◼   ► And I wonder if there's a part of me that really does wonder

01:17:20 ◼   ► if Google Glass will be that thing.

01:17:22 ◼   ► But here's the thing.

01:17:24 ◼   ► Talk about sauce for the gander.

01:17:26 ◼   ► I've been roundly criticized by many of my friends

01:17:28 ◼   ► for how skeptical I am about lauding Apple products

01:17:32 ◼   ► before they've come out.

01:17:33 ◼   ► I think it's pretty interesting the number of people

01:17:35 ◼   ► I've seen-- well, and again, this is just--

01:17:38 ◼   ► I don't follow this stuff, as you know.

01:17:39 ◼   ► But in the aggregate, there are a lot of people,

01:17:42 ◼   ► including me, who are a little bit freaked out by Google Glass,

01:17:44 ◼   ► the whole notion of it.

01:17:45 ◼   ► And the fact that it's tied to Google, who's already

01:17:47 ◼   ► getting freaky.

01:17:48 ◼   ► But given the massive number of people

01:17:50 ◼   ► who've talked about that, I think

01:17:51 ◼   ► it's also pretty interesting that how many people are saying,

01:17:55 ◼   ► "Oh, but once you put them on, it's pretty cool."

01:17:59 ◼   ► Have you heard people say that?

01:18:01 ◼   ► - I have, you know, and I--

01:18:02 ◼   ► - This doesn't seem kind of interesting though,

01:18:04 ◼   ► it's like we always talk about with Apple products,

01:18:06 ◼   ► you can say all you want about it,

01:18:07 ◼   ► but until you hold it in your hand

01:18:08 ◼   ► and use it for a couple days, that's the aha moment.

01:18:11 ◼   ► So do you think we might be on the wrong side of this,

01:18:13 ◼   ► that we need to like go around in these?

01:18:14 ◼   ► - I could be, you know, definitely might be, you know,

01:18:17 ◼   ► and I also see too how this is the,

01:18:20 ◼   ► This is the Michael, what's his name, from the Wall Street movie.

01:18:26 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

01:18:28 ◼   ► This is his, you know, that big brick-sized cell phone that he had in 1986.

01:18:33 ◼   ► Wearing his bathrobe, walking on the beach.

01:18:35 ◼   ► Right, and you're supposed to be really impressed by that, that you could be out on the beach and be on a phone call,

01:18:40 ◼   ► and the thing is the size of, you know, it's like the size of a briefcase.

01:18:44 ◼   ► You know, Google Glass is that for these heads-up displays.

01:18:48 ◼   ► I mean, you know, I don't think there's any doubt

01:18:51 ◼   ► There's no doubt in my mind that it won't be you know

01:18:53 ◼   ► I don't know five ten years from now that you'll be able to buy a normal pair of eyeglasses

01:18:58 ◼   ► And our committee contacts, you know, yes. Yeah. Well, who knows I the context seems hard battery wise. I'm not quite yeah

01:19:06 ◼   ► You know, I'm not quite sure how you something electronic could be reduced to a contact lens at in in the near future

01:19:12 ◼   ► I mean, but you'll never have a computer in your pocket. Well, I'm not saying never I'm just saying that seems

01:19:18 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe a little bit further out in the event horizon, but so we look at it

01:19:22 ◼   ► It looks a little bit wonky, but but who knows what the next or third iteration of this, right?

01:19:26 ◼   ► I don't think people are gonna get used to Google Glass as it exists today not making you look like a complete jackass

01:19:32 ◼   ► I I fully acknowledge though that they'll be able to it's quickly be able to iterate and get it

01:19:38 ◼   ► So that it looks a lot more like a normal pair of glasses at which point

01:19:41 ◼   ► You know

01:19:44 ◼   ► Something like that, I guess is inevitable. I don't know

01:19:47 ◼   ► You know that

01:19:49 ◼   ► You know and that we're gonna have to get used to it

01:19:51 ◼   ► And it's just just putting your foot in the stand or and your hand up in here and saying this is creepy is

01:19:57 ◼   ► Irrelevant because people are gonna do it anyway. Mm-hmm

01:19:59 ◼   ► Don't know

01:20:03 ◼   ► Well, let's check back in see I can't wait to be I can't wait though to tell my habit of looking at my cell phone

01:20:08 ◼   ► every five minutes makes me a curmudgeon rather than

01:20:13 ◼   ► Like I'm the old-fashioned guy who's looking

01:20:15 ◼   ► Staring at your external dingus instead of just leering creepily at men in the restroom, right? John's so antisocial

01:20:23 ◼   ► He hardly ever watches anybody else pee right and instead of me looking at attention deficit disorder

01:20:28 ◼   ► I look like the guy with you know, the the monk like serenity. I

01:20:33 ◼   ► Gotta go. Yeah. Well, thanks for having me on this was great. You're the best. I'll see you in a couple weeks

01:20:40 ◼   ► You know you will.

01:20:41 ◼   ► I'll be out in your town.

01:20:42 ◼   ► Yeah, and if not, I'll just see you on Larry's Island.

01:20:42 ◼   ► I'll be out in your town.

01:20:44 ◼   ► And if not, I'll just see you on Larry's Island.