The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► You still there?

00:00:01 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:00:02 ◼   ► You know what I did?

00:00:03 ◼   ► Oh, you sound so much better.

00:00:04 ◼   ► You know what I did?

00:00:05 ◼   ► I plugged it into a different USB port.

00:00:07 ◼   ► I think this is probably the last episode I'll record using this old Air.

00:00:13 ◼   ► Oh, are you going to go to the new iMac?

00:00:16 ◼   ► No, well yeah, I guess I should.

00:00:18 ◼   ► I don't know why I don't record using the iMac.

00:00:20 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:22 ◼   ► The Air is powerful enough to do that?

00:00:25 ◼   ► It's probably why the show sounds like shit.

00:00:27 ◼   ► No, you know what? And I actually know that this this old MacBook Air that I've used I I do it because I'm in some ways I'm a sentimental idiot and I think I've recorded like every episode of the talk show for I don't know at least the last three four years using that air so I want to keep doing

00:00:45 ◼   ► doing. Yeah, I mean you said... It makes no technical sense. No, none at all, but you said not too long ago

00:00:51 ◼   ► how in baseball, as baseball fans, there are people who are into the numbers and people who are into the story

00:00:56 ◼   ► and that you're a story guy. Right. Right. And yeah, you know, the MacPulgaras got a story. When I stopped

00:01:02 ◼   ► using my Rode, I was pretty nervous because I was like, I've been using this since 43 folders, MacBreak Weekly,

00:01:07 ◼   ► like, you know, it's so dumb. I'm just changing to a better mic. Why would that matter? It shouldn't, but I

00:01:14 ◼   ► I felt like a little bit disloyal.

00:01:16 ◼   ► What did you switch to?

00:01:18 ◼   ► Well, I tried a couple of things.

00:01:19 ◼   ► I'm using a Shure SM7B now.

00:01:24 ◼   ► It's super annoying because I got to go through this PreSonus

00:01:28 ◼   ► thing.

00:01:29 ◼   ► Oh, I don't want that.

00:01:31 ◼   ► I think Marco was telling me about that.

00:01:33 ◼   ► I don't want to do that.

00:01:35 ◼   ► You know, I think I just listen to too much rock music.

00:01:38 ◼   ► When people have these conversations about stuff,

00:01:40 ◼   ► I just don't hear it.

00:01:42 ◼   ► I don't hear what they're talking about.

00:01:43 ◼   ► And it makes me feel like a charlatan.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Like I don't, I mean I can notice in production values

00:01:50 ◼   ► like when like the public radio show with a budget

00:01:52 ◼   ► sounds different than three guys talking about Linux.

00:01:55 ◼   ► But like I don't notice that much about mics and stuff.

00:01:58 ◼   ► Do you?

00:01:59 ◼   ► - No, I don't.

00:02:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, you don't listen to a lot of podcasts though.

00:02:02 ◼   ► - Oh, I mean I don't listen to a lot,

00:02:04 ◼   ► but I listen to enough.

00:02:05 ◼   ► But when I do, I'm listening with earbuds.

00:02:08 ◼   ► So I don't think, and a lot of times I would say

00:02:13 ◼   ► easily 85% of the time I'm listening to podcasts I'm walking through the city so

00:02:20 ◼   ► there's so much noise you know it's the quality of the mic I mean I hope you

00:02:26 ◼   ► know I I understand why people make it sound as good as they can but I could

00:02:30 ◼   ► never hear the difference between microphones did you uh never get your

00:02:35 ◼   ► driver's license back I didn't lose my driver's license today you probably

00:02:41 ◼   ► don't remember it was on an episode of the talk show with Dan and you had the holiday party.

00:02:45 ◼   ► It's my favorite episode of the talk show and you talked about how they took your license away.

00:02:52 ◼   ► You don't remember you probably don't remember that. It was the holiday season. It's a lot to

00:02:55 ◼   ► remember. Yeah I don't remember. Why did they take my license away? Oh I made it up. I made it up.

00:03:01 ◼   ► That's right now I remember. Oh God now I remember. Because you had so many points.

00:03:07 ◼   ► Right I had so many points. And you refused to go to traffic school and Dan you know to Dan's credit

00:03:11 ◼   ► He played the entire episode straight. It was really funny. Oh, that was a good that was HR HR

00:03:16 ◼   ► fluffy puff, you know and I got I

00:03:20 ◼   ► Should write that down for the show notes. I got I

00:03:23 ◼   ► Think most people got it, but I definitely got a fair amount of email from listeners who were telling me. Hey, you know

00:03:29 ◼   ► Maybe you ought to get some help

00:03:33 ◼   ► So, you know, that's not funny. It's not funny racking up all those points, you know

00:03:39 ◼   ► You know how that hurts the government?

00:03:41 ◼   ► - Well, they're like, you're gonna learn a lesson

00:03:44 ◼   ► when you hit a kid crossing the street or something.

00:03:46 ◼   ► - For Christ's sakes, John, you got a kid.

00:03:48 ◼   ► Jesus Christ.

00:03:49 ◼   ► I'm so tired of words.

00:03:52 ◼   ► I'm just gonna stop saying things.

00:03:54 ◼   ► It's just, I give up.

00:03:56 ◼   ► I give up, I'm just gonna make grunts

00:03:57 ◼   ► and maybe sing a humble little tune.

00:03:59 ◼   ► But no matter what you say,

00:04:02 ◼   ► I made a crack last night on the Twitter

00:04:03 ◼   ► about how I wish Netflix, in streaming five seasons of MASH,

00:04:08 ◼   ► the five good seasons of mesh,

00:04:09 ◼   ► how I wish they would have it without the laugh track.

00:04:13 ◼   ► And oh my God, I got so many responses from people,

00:04:16 ◼   ► on the one hand telling me how that's physically impossible

00:04:19 ◼   ► since it's hard coded.

00:04:20 ◼   ► And then other people going,

00:04:22 ◼   ► "Sir, did you know that you could err the DVD tracks?"

00:04:25 ◼   ► I was like, yeah, you know what?

00:04:26 ◼   ► I know all of that, I know all of that.

00:04:28 ◼   ► I was just making a joke.

00:04:29 ◼   ► It's just, it's an ephemeral comment.

00:04:31 ◼   ► It's okay, everything's gonna be fine.

00:04:33 ◼   ► You must get that like to the 10th power,

00:04:35 ◼   ► especially like when you're being jokey about

00:04:37 ◼   ► sports, technology. You must get so many

00:04:41 ◼   ► wackadoodle responses from people.

00:04:44 ◼   ► It goes and flows. I can never predict though.

00:04:46 ◼   ► Like I'll

00:04:47 ◼   ► post some kind of, you know, absurd tweet and I think, "Oh God, I'm gonna get so many

00:04:51 ◼   ► people who take this seriously."

00:04:53 ◼   ► And then there's nothing. And then I throw one out that I'm not even worried about and

00:04:56 ◼   ► everybody, you know. Jon, there is absolutely no way

00:05:00 ◼   ► to know.

00:05:01 ◼   ► I make a lot of news-related "Your Mother" jokes and every time I expect

00:05:06 ◼   ► incredible blowback. Nothing. That's fine. That's awesome. I make one crack about

00:05:10 ◼   ► Mash having a laugh track and like the entire peanut gallery rises as one. But

00:05:15 ◼   ► you know it's it's good. I'm just tired of words.

00:05:18 ◼   ► What was the deal with Mash's laugh track? The way I recall it is season one

00:05:22 ◼   ► there was no laugh track and it was a ratings it was it was precipitous that

00:05:28 ◼   ► it was like the ratings were so bad that it was on the border of not coming back

00:05:32 ◼   ► for another season and that they one of the one of the changes they made between

00:05:36 ◼   ► season one season two is they added a laugh track yeah I don't I remember

00:05:41 ◼   ► having read because you know it most people who enjoy the mass show it's a

00:05:46 ◼   ► pretty hot topic because you can on the DVDs I don't own the DVDs I hate DVDs I

00:05:52 ◼   ► hate physical media I don't want them in my house I mean that's me that's my

00:05:55 ◼   ► Court of Last Resort like I've got I've got all the James Bond films like

00:05:58 ◼   ► everybody you know I bought that hundred dollar blu-ray package I got that I got

00:06:03 ◼   ► the Godfather and then I think I got a Dora or something like that but that's about it

00:06:07 ◼   ► and but yeah they had an alternate track where you could have the audio without the laugh

00:06:12 ◼   ► track I don't remember exactly how it happened except I mean think about the time what is

00:06:16 ◼   ► that 72 73 something like that where every every like three camera sitcom had a live

00:06:23 ◼   ► audience like you got your all in the families and stuff and I think you know it probably

00:06:29 ◼   ► seemed a little dead to people and some of the humor is probably was probably a

00:06:33 ◼   ► little bit dry it's just that it suddenly became not very dry when

00:06:37 ◼   ► there's a very obvious laugh on it I just I really hate laugh tracks yeah

00:06:40 ◼   ► they just they drive me crazy and you can actually go and you know if you know

00:06:44 ◼   ► where to go I know you don't do these things but you can find copies of it and

00:06:48 ◼   ► it is actually a pretty different experience you go watch my favorite

00:06:51 ◼   ► episode Abyssinia Henry the one where Henry leaves you remember that episode

00:06:56 ◼   ► It's the end of season three.

00:06:58 ◼   ► I'm sure that it's...

00:07:00 ◼   ► It's the one where he dies, he gets shot out of the air, and it's the episode right before Trapper leaves.

00:07:06 ◼   ► It's the end of the season, and it's got that amazing scene at the end where Radar walks into the operating room and reads the notice that Henry's dead.

00:07:14 ◼   ► It's incredibly moving. And watching that episode without the laugh track is a real different thing, because it's one of the great episodes of TV.

00:07:21 ◼   ► and you know you know it's good maybe in a way that people at that time wouldn't

00:07:26 ◼   ► know it's good so it feels a little insulting you know to have to put all of

00:07:30 ◼   ► that on it's not super loud like on some shows like 90 shows where the left track

00:07:35 ◼   ► got so loud but yeah but it always felt to me even as a kid and and growing up

00:07:41 ◼   ► in an era when all sitcoms had laugh tracks or as live studio audience and

00:07:46 ◼   ► even though one's at live studio audience you know that they were the

00:07:48 ◼   ► the laughter pretty loud sometimes yeah it always seemed incongruous because it

00:07:54 ◼   ► clearly was not shot in front of the live studio audience it was shot on real

00:07:58 ◼   ► you know like a soundstage yeah like you know in that case of mash it's like

00:08:03 ◼   ► they're shooting it outdoors there's not people on bleachers there right and the

00:08:07 ◼   ► production values were always such I mean clearly in hindsight I mean

00:08:10 ◼   ► everybody knew it was a smash hit eventually it became a smash hit you

00:08:13 ◼   ► know after a couple seasons and it was you know like it was always like I think

00:08:18 ◼   ► it was always like number one or number two was 60 minutes you know it was

00:08:21 ◼   ► always like a fight which was gonna be the top-rated show of the week and at a

00:08:24 ◼   ► time. 60 minutes man that was a juggernaut remember that was just like almost always

00:08:27 ◼   ► it was it was 60 minutes or something else for a little while it was always 60

00:08:31 ◼   ► minutes. It was always number one or number two it felt like your civic

00:08:34 ◼   ► obligation as an American was Sunday night at 7 everybody you know from 7 to

00:08:39 ◼   ► 70 would sit down and watch 60 minutes. Mm-hmm yeah the other thing that's funny

00:08:44 ◼   ► about mash is and this is you know it sounds nasty I don't mean it to be but

00:08:48 ◼   ► it's funny the that you know like three of the stars of that show left because

00:08:55 ◼   ► they wanted a better deal or they wanted more attention you know Wayne Rogers as

00:08:59 ◼   ► trapper mclean Stevenson you know he was done with it and later on Larry Linville

00:09:03 ◼   ► had decided he was done with the Frank Burns character and you know none of them

00:09:08 ◼   ► ever found anything approaching that again it's such a bummer oh what was the

00:09:13 ◼   ► guy who replaced Frank Burns Winchester right yeah he was yeah and he was there

00:09:19 ◼   ► was tough it was a tough one because what you could tell Winchester was

00:09:21 ◼   ► actually a good surgeon yes we knew Frank was a you know it was a good show

00:09:30 ◼   ► it was good that your it is interesting it's interesting in so many ways it was

00:09:34 ◼   ► a good movie that started it and then they you know didn't have any of the

00:09:38 ◼   ► any of the same actors from the movie come.

00:09:41 ◼   ► - We had Gary Burghoff was in the movie.

00:09:44 ◼   ► - Oh, Radar.

00:09:45 ◼   ► - Radar, yeah.

00:09:46 ◼   ► And the first season is much closer

00:09:49 ◼   ► in the kind of anarchic spirit.

00:09:52 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:09:53 ◼   ► - It's much closer to the film.

00:09:55 ◼   ► But yeah, it got, you know, like anything though,

00:09:57 ◼   ► I think they kind of, they started this great thing.

00:10:00 ◼   ► There was a great episode where Hawkeye writes to his dad.

00:10:03 ◼   ► There's an episode called Dear Dad.

00:10:04 ◼   ► - I remember that one, I remember that.

00:10:05 ◼   ► - It was really good.

00:10:06 ◼   ► It's from like, I don't know, first second season.

00:10:08 ◼   ► And but then they did like, remember then they had like,

00:10:10 ◼   ► Dear Peg, and then they had Dear Father Mulcahy writes

00:10:15 ◼   ► and eventually, Alan Arbus, remember the psychiatrist,

00:10:19 ◼   ► he's writing to Sigmund Freud at some point,

00:10:22 ◼   ► like an open letter or something, it got really bananas.

00:10:25 ◼   ► But it was a good show, I mean, it was really of its time.

00:10:28 ◼   ► But by the end, it was just, it was so insufferable.

00:10:31 ◼   ► Even as a flaming liberal, I can't watch that show.

00:10:33 ◼   ► It's such a pantomime of, you know, politics.

00:10:36 ◼   ► - I haven't seen it in a long time.

00:10:37 ◼   ► I don't remember it petering out at toward the end and I remember the last episode was oh man was a tobacco with the chicken

00:10:44 ◼   ► Oh, it's just and Hawkeye still haunts me still haunts me committed or something and yeah cuz the chicken chicken

00:10:51 ◼   ► I don't know. I was always obsessed. That's another like lifelong obsession obsession for me and like a minor one is

00:10:57 ◼   ► Final episodes of shows I'll watch the last episode of a show that I've never even watched just to see how they you know

00:11:03 ◼   ► I like a last episode

00:11:04 ◼   ► Yeah, and I I watched mash I you know, I watched it I watched the reruns, you know

00:11:10 ◼   ► It was a staple in our household like flipping through the stations like waiting for dinner to be ready

00:11:15 ◼   ► Everybody could agree we'd watch mash, you know, and the reruns were you know, like 530 or something like that. So it was

00:11:21 ◼   ► You know and the reruns were still were on while the show was still wrapping up I think and absolutely absolutely

00:11:27 ◼   ► Yeah, and I think their last episode for a long time was the highest rated like non

00:11:34 ◼   ► Bowl type yeah definitely was yeah yeah it was like a national event and

00:11:39 ◼   ► everybody was like what the hell was that kind of went on yeah how does it

00:11:46 ◼   ► play now like watching any of those episodes with Jamie farce character what

00:11:53 ◼   ► was his name clinger clinger clinger how could I forget that so clear for anybody

00:11:58 ◼   ► who isn't familiar clinger was played by Jamie far and he did not want to serve

00:12:03 ◼   ► in the army this is who doesn't know he was drafted he was drafted with these

00:12:08 ◼   ► kids and he knew that there was something that you could get if you were

00:12:11 ◼   ► mentally unsound to serve in the army you could get a dis get a section 8 or

00:12:16 ◼   ► something section 8 so he's always angling for section 8 so how do you

00:12:19 ◼   ► convince the army that you're crazy you dress like Carmen Miranda you're women's

00:12:23 ◼   ► clothes right so he wore a woman's women's clothing all the time and you

00:12:28 ◼   ► know it didn't work everybody knew what his stick was but he never let up on it

00:12:33 ◼   ► so he still he still did his job that's the right he showed up just like a nurse

00:12:37 ◼   ► but then he was a pretty good nurse that's part of the problem you guys I

00:12:40 ◼   ► think you should undermine the basic task that you're doing or do them in it's

00:12:44 ◼   ► such a bananas way that it's clear that you're crazy you know what I'm saying

00:12:47 ◼   ► right hey you know it's it's okay I think the earlier seasons are better you

00:12:52 ◼   ► know it's so funny with TV shows it always takes them a few episodes or a

00:12:55 ◼   ► season to find their legs and then you know things kind of seem to go for a

00:12:59 ◼   ► while I can't imagine doing a TV show it just seems so exhausting. Oh totally of

00:13:04 ◼   ► any kind. Yeah. Whether it's you know like like like well like the this very day

00:13:11 ◼   ► like yes last night was as we record yesterday was the day Jon Stewart

00:13:15 ◼   ► announced that he was going to step down from the Daily Show and then it's like

00:13:20 ◼   ► he said something during the show did you watch I watched and it was like no

00:13:23 ◼   ► what'd you say I think he said he's been doing it for 17 years and I looked at I

00:13:26 ◼   ► I was watching with Amy and I was like, "Well, that can't be." And then I was like thinking about it. I was like, "Holy shit."

00:13:30 ◼   ► And then I'm like, "Well, of course he's gonna step down. He's been doing this show four days a week for 17 years."

00:13:36 ◼   ► Yeah, and I know, I mean talking to in particular Hodgman and Rob Corddry about it, people

00:13:43 ◼   ► I know who've been on that show and work with him all say the same thing.

00:13:46 ◼   ► Which is that, first of all, he's a very nice guy and you know,

00:13:49 ◼   ► he's a good guy, but also that he is one of the hardest, he's the hardest working person in the building.

00:13:56 ◼   ► So when Hajim will go on there he would have like kind of a prepared bit and then I mean, you know

00:14:00 ◼   ► He's I don't think he was the showrunner, but he he was involved in like every rewrite up until camp

00:14:06 ◼   ► I mean like he was making everybody in the room better on every episode

00:14:10 ◼   ► Can you imagine doing that for over 15 years like what that would take out of you?

00:14:13 ◼   ► No, and I think that I have trouble ordering groceries and and this guy is doing that every single night

00:14:17 ◼   ► I

00:14:19 ◼   ► think it's very clear to that he you know and

00:14:25 ◼   ► it put it in sports ball terms he's a good he was like a good passer in

00:14:29 ◼   ► basketball like he was not concerned obviously he's the host of the show he's

00:14:33 ◼   ► you know the one who does the whole first half single-handedly on on air at

00:14:37 ◼   ► least obviously with the help of writers but as soon as anybody else is on

00:14:42 ◼   ► whether it's a bit at the desk like a Hodgman thing or anything else it's he

00:14:47 ◼   ► is so a hundred percent concentrated on making that other person look as good as

00:14:53 ◼   ► as they possibly can and make sure that they get

00:14:56 ◼   ► as many of the laughs as they possibly can.

00:14:59 ◼   ► - I totally agree and I mean, you can look to our hero

00:15:02 ◼   ► as like the paragon of that.

00:15:03 ◼   ► I mean, Carson was so good, whoever that was,

00:15:08 ◼   ► like whether that was Burt Reynolds

00:15:10 ◼   ► or whether that was some grandmother

00:15:12 ◼   ► that had done something crazy, he was so generous.

00:15:15 ◼   ► I mean, I think even if he wasn't loving,

00:15:17 ◼   ► I think Fred de Cordova would be the one

00:15:19 ◼   ► who kind of stepped in and go,

00:15:20 ◼   ► "Okay, we're ready to go to commercial."

00:15:22 ◼   ► Carson would sometimes give him the hand signal.

00:15:24 ◼   ► But he was there and fully committed

00:15:28 ◼   ► to whatever was happening

00:15:29 ◼   ► and wanted to make that person look good

00:15:31 ◼   ► and it made everybody look good.

00:15:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:15:34 ◼   ► So I was surprised, I have to say,

00:15:36 ◼   ► just to commit to that the whole late night shuffling,

00:15:39 ◼   ► I was a little surprised when Letterman announced

00:15:42 ◼   ► his retirement that Jon Stewart didn't get that,

00:15:47 ◼   ► or maybe he didn't want it.

00:15:50 ◼   ► if he was thinking about stepping down from this,

00:15:53 ◼   ► you know, on a daily basis,

00:15:54 ◼   ► maybe that's just it, he didn't wanna, you know,

00:15:56 ◼   ► he just didn't wanna do a daily show anymore.

00:15:58 ◼   ► I always thought that Jon Stewart would be an excellent,

00:16:01 ◼   ► you know, like Letterman's style show host.

00:16:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I agree.

00:16:08 ◼   ► And, you know, it's funny to think about

00:16:09 ◼   ► like what the world was like when Letterman started

00:16:11 ◼   ► and it would be impossible to explain to somebody today,

00:16:15 ◼   ► probably in the same way that Steve Allen,

00:16:17 ◼   ► like to us, Steve Allen seems like an old guy.

00:16:19 ◼   ► But Steve Allen's show broke the mold.

00:16:22 ◼   ► I mean, there'd never been anybody on TV

00:16:24 ◼   ► quite like Steve Allen, who was so kind of, you know,

00:16:26 ◼   ► cultural and witty and smart,

00:16:29 ◼   ► but also would do such crazy stunts

00:16:32 ◼   ► and that had a huge influence on Letterman.

00:16:34 ◼   ► And then Letterman comes along and, you know,

00:16:36 ◼   ► they had that crazy deal with Carson.

00:16:38 ◼   ► You know about all this, right?

00:16:39 ◼   ► Like, they had a guy from Carson's production team there

00:16:44 ◼   ► who basically made sure that he's like,

00:16:47 ◼   ► "Okay, here's your show, here's the rules.

00:16:48 ◼   ► Like you can't book anybody who's like one of Johnny's regulars.

00:16:52 ◼   ► You know Johnny gets the first bite of any of these particular apples.

00:16:55 ◼   ► There's all kinds of rules but that was a constraint that he worked and brought in Larry

00:16:59 ◼   ► Budd Millman or he brought in Chris Elliott and that made the show so much more fun and

00:17:04 ◼   ► so much weirder than if that awkward young David Letterman was trying to interview you

00:17:08 ◼   ► know Madonna.

00:17:09 ◼   ► Yeah I think most famously there were restrictions on the length of the monologue and so.

00:17:15 ◼   ► Oh because that's Johnny's thing.

00:17:16 ◼   ► it was Johnny's thing and so like on the old Letterman show

00:17:19 ◼   ► Letterman would come out and do three jokes and they were so perfunctory like the the bit was almost like his complete disdain for the

00:17:27 ◼   ► Monologue he would just come out and do three

00:17:29 ◼   ► Really clipped perfunctory jokes and then it was on to the desk and the rest

00:17:35 ◼   ► And you know the part that made it the part that made it funny every night was how terrible he made it seem like he thought

00:17:41 ◼   ► It was like that was a terrible joke and him adjusting his tie and like the kind of face

00:17:46 ◼   ► You know, that's what made it funny, right? So like they took the restrictions from Carson productions on the monologue and

00:17:51 ◼   ► And I think eventually like I think once it settled in and it was very clear

00:17:56 ◼   ► I didn't I don't think it took long for Carson and his people to realize that Letterman was no threat to Carson

00:18:02 ◼   ► Like there was no way that that Letterman was ever going to steal his job, right?

00:18:08 ◼   ► Right, like it's just not that type of person and you know, he was fine

00:18:11 ◼   ► You know, I think you know, I famously he wanted it and when when the time came in when Johnny retired

00:18:16 ◼   ► But he was never going to backstab him if his ratings had you know, they fight he's never seen

00:18:22 ◼   ► He's never seen anything like completely grateful

00:18:24 ◼   ► Like when he tells the story and I guess the first time he was on and got called over to the couch

00:18:29 ◼   ► Like he honestly he still sounds like a kid like what a what a moving moment that was for him to get to do that

00:18:35 ◼   ► Yeah, so I think that eventually I don't think it took long where if if he had wanted to do longer monologues

00:18:40 ◼   ► I don't really think that the phone was going to ring in the Carson people were going to say hey,

00:18:44 ◼   ► you know, you were, you know, you know, you're only supposed to do two minutes of monologue

00:18:47 ◼   ► and you did 230 last night. But I think that they just embraced that anti monologue, you know,

00:18:53 ◼   ► that that just became part of the signature of the show. Oh, yeah. And I mean, that's a beat it

00:18:57 ◼   ► to death. But I think about the stuff that I remember, when I would hear somebody was going

00:19:01 ◼   ► to be on, I would get so excited. And certainly there's famous scenes where like Drew Barrymore

00:19:06 ◼   ► acted all crazy or Crispin Glover was all you know nuts that one time and tried to

00:19:10 ◼   ► think he was gonna kick him those are famous but what do you really remember

00:19:13 ◼   ► from the first three years I mean you you remember people like Harvey Pekar

00:19:17 ◼   ► you remember people like Charles Grodin you remember you remember people being

00:19:21 ◼   ► on there who or like Jeff Jeff Altman I love Jeff Altman like he would be so

00:19:27 ◼   ► very 20-pound butt steak you know and that's what made the show and then like

00:19:33 ◼   ► the prancing fluids and all that stuff that was the product of that probation

00:19:38 ◼   ► like is what made the show good it would not have lasted as long if it had been

00:19:41 ◼   ► just another show Harvey P car I haven't thought about him in maybe 20 years so

00:19:46 ◼   ► Charles Grodin it was a bit yeah whenever Charles Grodin was on Carson or

00:19:50 ◼   ► lettering you got that it was kind of a bit but Harvey P car genuinely seemed to

00:19:53 ◼   ► hate Dave and hate the idea of being on the show at all right and was just a

00:19:58 ◼   ► miserable person quite frankly it was not very attractive either so it wasn't

00:20:02 ◼   ► really like you know people like looking at him and so I think any normal talk

00:20:07 ◼   ► show would be like I don't know who booked him but they're fired and make

00:20:11 ◼   ► sure we never have him back again whereas the letterman people like let's

00:20:13 ◼   ► have this guy back on every couple months. Oh absolutely and it was true

00:20:17 ◼   ► for I mean I think Jeff Altman is you know one of his great repeat guests I

00:20:22 ◼   ► mean he would he loved having Jeff Altman on partly because I think I you

00:20:25 ◼   ► know I have to tell you if you don't already know about this I'm cribbing

00:20:28 ◼   ► some of this from a podcast have you heard the podcast the Carson podcast? No.

00:20:32 ◼   ► Oh, you should know about this.

00:20:33 ◼   ► There's a show this guy in LA does, this comedian in LA.

00:20:36 ◼   ► I think it's called the Carson Podcast.

00:20:37 ◼   ► And the whole podcast is him interviewing

00:20:40 ◼   ► people who have some kind of an interesting relationship

00:20:42 ◼   ► with the Carson show.

00:20:43 ◼   ► Oh, shit.

00:20:44 ◼   ► Yeah, it was great.

00:20:45 ◼   ► So people like Jeff Altman, people like Bob Einstein,

00:20:49 ◼   ► Super Dave, just all kinds of people.

00:20:52 ◼   ► And then George Carlin's daughter was on.

00:20:54 ◼   ► But it's a great insight into what you and I know,

00:20:58 ◼   ► which is what an inscrutable person he was.

00:21:01 ◼   ► everybody says the same thing.

00:21:02 ◼   ► It was great, it was the greatest honor you ever had,

00:21:04 ◼   ► but nobody, it was like two or three people

00:21:06 ◼   ► who ever felt like they legitimately knew Johnny Carson.

00:21:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, did you read the biography that is--

00:21:11 ◼   ► - No, I saw that, we talked about that,

00:21:12 ◼   ► I think one time we talked about that PBS show.

00:21:14 ◼   ► - Oh, that was great, the PBS Masters episode.

00:21:17 ◼   ► - That was terrific, yeah.

00:21:19 ◼   ► - That was the best thing,

00:21:20 ◼   ► and they didn't really try to get to the person.

00:21:24 ◼   ► I mean, they acknowledged it,

00:21:25 ◼   ► and they talked to so many people.

00:21:29 ◼   ► was such a great thing the PBS master thing but it was kind of like almost

00:21:33 ◼   ► like Citizen Kane where everybody like knew you know had the same regard for

00:21:37 ◼   ► this purse but never really felt like they knew what made him tick you know

00:21:41 ◼   ► and so anyway you might check out that podcast it's it's uh it's pretty good

00:21:45 ◼   ► the book I forget is Henry something let me look it up here Carson biography

00:21:52 ◼   ► Carson Henry let's see sounds like he'd you know he'd wrapped the show he Henry

00:21:58 ◼   ► Michigan

00:21:59 ◼   ► Okay, there we go

00:22:01 ◼   ► And it's something he would never talk before the show there would be just a little bit right?

00:22:05 ◼   ► It was just nobody he would not talk to the guests

00:22:07 ◼   ► I mean he would get in the car and drive away and that was it. Yeah

00:22:09 ◼   ► The the Henry Bush Kim book is uncomfortable to me because clearly it's a betrayal of

00:22:18 ◼   ► Trust like there's no way he should be telling you store. I mean, it's unauthorized. Oh, yeah, definitely

00:22:25 ◼   ► It's I mean, how could it be authorized? I mean Carson's dead

00:22:28 ◼   ► But I mean, I don't think his family would have wanted it and I think if you had asked Johnny while he was alive

00:22:32 ◼   ► Would you like Henry Bushkin to you know, write a book?

00:22:35 ◼   ► Certainly not right, but on the other hand he did write it

00:22:38 ◼   ► So I read it, you know, but I kind of felt I did I felt a little icky the whole time

00:22:42 ◼   ► But there's some crazy stories in there. There's one story where I

00:22:45 ◼   ► Forget if it was his wife or it was just a girlfriend

00:22:50 ◼   ► But I think I might have been his wife and he Johnny thought is one of his you know

00:22:54 ◼   ► Earlier wives this is when the show was still in New York and he lived in New York

00:22:56 ◼   ► He figured out his wife was running around on him and he wanted to break into the

00:23:01 ◼   ► Apartment it was her apartment, but he was paying for it. So he said it so it's got to be Lee

00:23:06 ◼   ► I'm paying for it

00:23:07 ◼   ► so it's legal we're breaking in and he got Henry but his took his lawyer with him and like two guys who could only really

00:23:14 ◼   ► Be described as toughs

00:23:16 ◼   ► thugs yeah and like and Henry Bushkin says in the book that the one guy even had a gun tucked in his belt and

00:23:23 ◼   ► They go over there and like break into the place and find you know find evidence that she was running around on him and God

00:23:29 ◼   ► But you know, it's like stories that you know, you don't expect your lawyer to write a book about that

00:23:33 ◼   ► That's why you take your look. It's his lawyer that wrote the book. Yeah, it's his law. Oh my god

00:23:39 ◼   ► That's that's not cricket man

00:23:43 ◼   ► No, it's a good read. It's a good quick read, but it's

00:23:46 ◼   ► Requesting from the library right now. Yeah, this is a guy, you know who needed some money, I think

00:23:52 ◼   ► - Sure.

00:23:54 ◼   ► - But he was, you know, but I guess the thing

00:23:56 ◼   ► that made me think about it is that he was obviously,

00:23:58 ◼   ► he was more than just his lawyer though.

00:24:00 ◼   ► He became as close a friend as anybody could to him.

00:24:03 ◼   ► They played tennis together, they were both tennis nuts.

00:24:06 ◼   ► And they used to travel to, I remember that Johnny did this

00:24:10 ◼   ► 'cause I remember I used to watch tennis on TV sometimes.

00:24:12 ◼   ► But Johnny would always, like for years,

00:24:14 ◼   ► had an annual trip where he would go to Wimbledon.

00:24:16 ◼   ► And Henry Bushkin and his wife went with him.

00:24:18 ◼   ► It was, you know, like Johnny and his wife

00:24:20 ◼   ► Henry Bushkin and his wife every year for like 15 years they went to England

00:24:25 ◼   ► for like two or three weeks so I mean they were definitely close but even then

00:24:29 ◼   ► even being that close that you vacationed with Johnny Carson for a

00:24:33 ◼   ► couple of weeks every year it's like he still clearly didn't really know him that

00:24:36 ◼   ► well and it yeah totally I think Pat McCormick the comic Pat McCormick who I

00:24:39 ◼   ► think it worked on the show and was on a lot also was another one but even in

00:24:44 ◼   ► interviews I think Pat McCormick I think was on that podcast but it's a lot like

00:24:48 ◼   ► when you hear people talk about Sinatra you know where they're all talking about

00:24:51 ◼   ► mr. Sinatra and like this deference like he'll come back from the grave and get

00:24:54 ◼   ► you whacked like this there's still a lot of deference to Johnny and a desire

00:24:59 ◼   ► to keep his legacy you know clean to the extent possible yeah I almost feel I

00:25:03 ◼   ► mean you know not having ever seen the guy in person but my impression is maybe

00:25:08 ◼   ► that like he just had was like a one in a one in a billion freak where the real

00:25:14 ◼   ► Johnny Carson was the one who was on for 60 minutes in front of a camera sitting

00:25:19 ◼   ► at a desk like that really was him and that it was the other 23 hours of his

00:25:23 ◼   ► life where there was it was just nothing oh yeah I mean he's like he's like a

00:25:27 ◼   ► comic book character right I mean you know where it's almost like Bruce Wayne

00:25:31 ◼   ► is the secret I you know what I mean it's like Batman is the real guy in some

00:25:35 ◼   ► ways and breathing is yeah exactly right and I feel like that might have been

00:25:39 ◼   ► Johnny Carson and I feel like you know that's what made him so inscrutable and

00:25:44 ◼   ► and off you know off camera yeah let's take a break I'll take a break and I'm

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00:28:16 ◼   ► little bit our friend Matt Alexander yeah what he's what he's doing is

00:28:20 ◼   ► amazing like what he's done in such a short period of time I think he's about

00:28:24 ◼   ► 14 years old and he's half English so he's gotten past that and it's

00:28:30 ◼   ► still astonishing to me like what that guy has managed to do that you know when

00:28:35 ◼   ► he first described these projects to me and it just seems like there's more and

00:28:38 ◼   ► more coming out all the time you know I was like well that's you know it's kind

00:28:41 ◼   ► of cool it kind of sounds like a store like a small store but it's been a big

00:28:47 ◼   ► hit it's it's really frustrating yeah and you wish you could do something like

00:28:51 ◼   ► I do because I feel like I don't know I like it because it's real I feel I the

00:28:59 ◼   ► things that impressed me as people come up with new ideas for businesses and and

00:29:03 ◼   ► you know I like the ones that have something that you can touch the way we

00:29:09 ◼   ► gotta buy a by film for your virtual camera I think it drives you nuts though

00:29:15 ◼   ► right like that's not really that's not really a company I would say I would to

00:29:20 ◼   ► actually say that the spectrum of the things that I tend to be most interested

00:29:24 ◼   ► in are on the one side are real physical things like somebody who's making iPhone

00:29:29 ◼   ► docks out of blocks of wood right I mean not all of them I don't like them all

00:29:33 ◼   ► but I mean you know something like that where you're making a real thing and

00:29:38 ◼   ► you're doing it real way and then the ones I like least would have to be the

00:29:41 ◼   ► virtual fake real-world constraints you know the some of the some of the kinds

00:29:47 ◼   ► services that are out there are so weird as I get more and more cynical about

00:29:54 ◼   ► everything and a little bit more frisky about things like privacy like I you

00:29:58 ◼   ► just see stuff coming down the lane you're like really like that's there's

00:30:01 ◼   ► this thing remember every block remember did you get that sure that was Stephen

00:30:06 ◼   ► Johnson and Wilson I think Wilson minor worked on that but it was a really

00:30:09 ◼   ► amazing service super clean beautiful website that would basically aggregate

00:30:14 ◼   ► all kinds of mostly public information about things like police activity, safety,

00:30:19 ◼   ► I mean anything that you you couldn't care less for any neighborhood except

00:30:23 ◼   ► your own but in your neighborhood you really care and it's incredible like I

00:30:26 ◼   ► went in and I saw one time I called the cops about something and I could find

00:30:29 ◼   ► that on the website it was really really cool but I think they contracted to be

00:30:33 ◼   ► in only a few contracted as in like kind of sucked down to be just in a few

00:30:37 ◼   ► cities now these other ones cropping up my wife got me to get on this one in our

00:30:41 ◼   ► neighborhood. It's just it's so annoying. It's one of those things where you you

00:30:46 ◼   ► sign up and you got to like give them tons of information. They want your phone

00:30:50 ◼   ► number. They want to send a postcard to your house to verify that you you're you

00:30:53 ◼   ► fine and then they automatically put your address on the website and then

00:30:57 ◼   ► every page you're on there are call to actions and pop-ups telling you to go

00:31:02 ◼   ► invite more people. It asks you to like you know bring in all of your on the one

00:31:06 ◼   ► hand they're real careful about making sure who you are but then it's one of

00:31:09 ◼   ► those remember like path kind of thing where they're like now don't you want to

00:31:12 ◼   ► install and bring in all of your contacts and your Facebook people and

00:31:14 ◼   ► it's like I am increasingly super uncomfortable with that as a business

00:31:18 ◼   ► model it's gross as soon as they asked me for it I had just closed the window I

00:31:23 ◼   ► immediately think well that's your business model and then I'm grossed out

00:31:26 ◼   ► yeah yeah and I mean there's some kinds of things like say what you will about

00:31:29 ◼   ► Google I mean like opening that Google app especially like when I'm out of town

00:31:33 ◼   ► I was out of town last week it still kind of blows my mind how smart Google

00:31:37 ◼   ► is, I know they're Google, but if there's anybody out there who is providing some value

00:31:42 ◼   ► for the nonsense they do, you gotta give them credit. Like, "Here's the city you're traveling

00:31:45 ◼   ► to. There's the temperature. Hey, here's your flight that just came in via email." That

00:31:50 ◼   ► kind of stuff, I wish they were better with the privacy stuff in some ways, but that's

00:31:55 ◼   ► a real value. They've done something very innovative to be able to do that at scale.

00:31:59 ◼   ► But you can just feel on some of these websites where you just tell that they're young, it's

00:32:02 ◼   ► a new company and it's all about building the user base and then leveraging as much

00:32:08 ◼   ► personal information as possible. I don't know, it's kind of a boring thing to get into,

00:32:11 ◼   ► but I find that really kind of gross and frustrating. I feel like enough of my stuff is out there.

00:32:16 ◼   ► I don't need to go sign up for free services that are going to do that.

00:32:22 ◼   ► you see there was an article I forget the guy's name a couple weeks ago on on

00:32:33 ◼   ► Google the the the trade-off between if you if you give Google everything they

00:32:39 ◼   ► want to know about you and buy into their stuff you get a tremendous

00:32:44 ◼   ► experience out of it like if you've got an Android phone and you use the whole

00:32:49 ◼   ► ecosystem and the apps right that kind of thing right like you know and like

00:32:53 ◼   ► you said like and it definitely works I mean I don't buy into this it's

00:32:57 ◼   ► certainly come a long way right but it's cool stuff like if you're using Gmail

00:33:05 ◼   ► and you let you know then then you get your flight stuff into your Gmail and

00:33:09 ◼   ► then they already know you have a flight because they've already parsed the email

00:33:12 ◼   ► from your airline that says you're doing it and then your today view already has

00:33:17 ◼   ► like you said, has the weather for San Francisco

00:33:20 ◼   ► because that's where I'm flying.

00:33:21 ◼   ► - Right.

00:33:22 ◼   ► Or like I just got a pop up yesterday,

00:33:23 ◼   ► it's like this shirt that you ordered for,

00:33:25 ◼   ► a short order for my kid, they're like,

00:33:27 ◼   ► it just shipped, here's the FedEx number.

00:33:28 ◼   ► Like that's actually pretty useful.

00:33:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's pretty awesome.

00:33:32 ◼   ► So I mean, but it's like you said though,

00:33:36 ◼   ► like I'm a little wary of it,

00:33:41 ◼   ► but at least with Google, the exchange is very clear.

00:33:46 ◼   ► it's okay you're gonna give up some of your privacy

00:33:48 ◼   ► and they're gonna send you targeted ads.

00:33:51 ◼   ► And that makes me a little uncomfortable.

00:33:53 ◼   ► But in exchange, there's a very clear value proposition

00:33:56 ◼   ► though, it's we're gonna give you stuff

00:33:59 ◼   ► that you need to know, like your weather

00:34:00 ◼   ► and reminders of things that you didn't even ask

00:34:03 ◼   ► to be reminded of but that you would need to.

00:34:06 ◼   ► And I think that's pretty interesting.

00:34:07 ◼   ► Whereas with a lot of these startups,

00:34:09 ◼   ► it's like they want the information

00:34:11 ◼   ► and you know they're gonna sell it out

00:34:13 ◼   ► and it's like I have no idea,

00:34:14 ◼   ► Why would I give this to you?

00:34:16 ◼   ► - Right, right, right, right.

00:34:18 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely.

00:34:19 ◼   ► And yeah, anyway, it's probably kind of a thistle

00:34:21 ◼   ► to get into, but then you look at something like Uber,

00:34:24 ◼   ► where did you see the thing where they're lost and found?

00:34:27 ◼   ► Database was like an unprotected spreadsheet

00:34:29 ◼   ► on the internet with people's names and phone numbers in it.

00:34:32 ◼   ► - No, I did not.

00:34:34 ◼   ► - It's like, wow, that's pretty rough.

00:34:36 ◼   ► The sharing economy thing is super interesting to me

00:34:42 ◼   ► because I'm kind of surprised,

00:34:44 ◼   ► really, especially in San Francisco,

00:34:45 ◼   ► I am very surprised this stuff has gotten as far as it has.

00:34:48 ◼   ► You know, you asked me 10 years ago,

00:34:50 ◼   ► I mean, I live in a neighborhood

00:34:50 ◼   ► where it's very difficult to get a cab anytime.

00:34:53 ◼   ► And I've cursed the cab companies forever

00:34:55 ◼   ► 'cause they don't give a fig, they don't need to.

00:34:57 ◼   ► They can just drive up and down Polk Street

00:34:59 ◼   ► and make all the money in the world, drive to the airport.

00:35:01 ◼   ► There's, you know what I mean?

00:35:02 ◼   ► That's how it works in a city.

00:35:04 ◼   ► But I never would have guessed

00:35:06 ◼   ► that they would get away with that here.

00:35:07 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:35:08 ◼   ► It's such a strong kind of union town in some ways.

00:35:10 ◼   ► such a strong town for like people who are protected.

00:35:13 ◼   ► Uh, you know, interest like with the medallions and stuff kind of amazed that stuff has gotten

00:35:18 ◼   ► as far as it has.

00:35:19 ◼   ► I am too.

00:35:20 ◼   ► I didn't know.

00:35:21 ◼   ► I didn't realize that.

00:35:22 ◼   ► Um, I don't know if you saw my tweet.

00:35:24 ◼   ► I don't know a week or two ago.

00:35:26 ◼   ► Um, there was an article like like lift start just started here in Philly and the article

00:35:31 ◼   ► about lift was about how the whole thing like all the uber all the ubers in Philly are illegal.

00:35:38 ◼   ► There's they're not supposed to be operating in Philly.

00:35:40 ◼   ► It's like news to me, I've been using Uber and Philly for like two years. I had no idea.

00:35:44 ◼   ► Isn't that kind of mind-blowing? It just seems like one low-level government functionary could

00:35:49 ◼   ► walk into that office and just shut off the lights. But like so they, I mean black cars are obviously

00:35:55 ◼   ► legal but not based on you know not through the Uber interface. But they're regulated.

00:35:59 ◼   ► I mean I guess I don't know what it is but there's something like and we have UberX now too so we

00:36:04 ◼   ► have the you know the amateur cab driver version. You meet some very interesting people with UberX.

00:36:10 ◼   ► And the whole thing was about how Lyft, you know, Lyft's got the pink mustaches on the cars,

00:36:15 ◼   ► which makes them so easy to identify. So, like, because they're illegal, like the...

00:36:20 ◼   ► But it's not enforced by the police. It's enforced by the parking authority.

00:36:24 ◼   ► The long arm of the parking authority.

00:36:26 ◼   ► Right.

00:36:28 ◼   ► But I've heard stories, I don't know if these are true, but I've heard anecdotes where people

00:36:31 ◼   ► are like, "Okay, fist bump. Get in. Now put your bag in the trunk. We're friends. We've

00:36:35 ◼   ► We've known each other since college.

00:36:38 ◼   ► Because the Lyft experience is still a little on the bubble.

00:36:44 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm not comfortable with it, really.

00:36:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:48 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm not either.

00:36:49 ◼   ► But out here, there's an article in the paper a week or two ago

00:36:54 ◼   ► about how--

00:36:56 ◼   ► I mean, I find this totally plausible.

00:36:58 ◼   ► Uber drivers are making something like, on average,

00:37:00 ◼   ► $10 an hour more than taxi drivers.

00:37:03 ◼   ► there's been a utter diaspora of people leaving

00:37:07 ◼   ► these taxi companies to go work for Uber,

00:37:09 ◼   ► 'cause there's just smart deal in it.

00:37:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, I've done that, and when I first started using Uber,

00:37:14 ◼   ► it was in San Francisco, because it was early days

00:37:17 ◼   ► when Uber was new, and I don't know where the,

00:37:19 ◼   ► maybe that was the only place

00:37:20 ◼   ► where they were operating at first,

00:37:21 ◼   ► but I remember thinking, well, this sounds weird, right?

00:37:25 ◼   ► This sounds weird, but I'll try it,

00:37:27 ◼   ► and I remember the first couple of times I got in an Uber,

00:37:29 ◼   ► I would ask the driver, I was like,

00:37:31 ◼   ► so how do you like this, do you like this?

00:37:33 ◼   ► And two of never, never was the answer anything other than I love it. This is you know, this is great

00:37:38 ◼   ► Oh, absolutely. And whereas if I get a cab ride, I've said this story elsewhere, but I recent last month

00:37:44 ◼   ► I got a cab ride home from a gig and

00:37:46 ◼   ► The entire time the guy had his right arm on the seat turning around facing me the entire trip screaming

00:37:52 ◼   ► He's like an uber anti uber activist, but the entire ride like I'm you know

00:37:57 ◼   ► three sheets to the wind and just trying to put my headphones on and nod and he really wants to talk about uber and and

00:38:02 ◼   ► And it's the battle lines have been drawn.

00:38:05 ◼   ► I tried using that app, but you know, curb, do you have that there?

00:38:08 ◼   ► No, I don't think we do.

00:38:09 ◼   ► There's an app, at least in San Francisco, that is the go-to app for ordering a cab in

00:38:15 ◼   ► an Uber-like way.

00:38:16 ◼   ► I've tried it three times and waiting 10 minutes, I've never even gotten a response that a cab

00:38:22 ◼   ► would even be available.

00:38:23 ◼   ► But just because I live out in kind of a crazy part of town.

00:38:26 ◼   ► So I mean, it's, I don't love using it either and they kind of seem like dicks.

00:38:30 ◼   ► I mean, no offense to Uber,

00:38:33 ◼   ► but there's some pretty crazy decisions going on.

00:38:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'll send you a link.

00:38:37 ◼   ► Here's what we've got.

00:38:39 ◼   ► This is our new thing is 215, get a cab.

00:38:43 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:38:43 ◼   ► - And it's clearly like,

00:38:46 ◼   ► like the various cab companies have colluded to get,

00:38:52 ◼   ► I mean, I'm not colluded in any legal way,

00:38:54 ◼   ► but it's not just one. - Collaborated.

00:38:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's in response to Uber.

00:39:00 ◼   ► - It's just no doubt about it.

00:39:01 ◼   ► It is in response to Uber

00:39:03 ◼   ► and they've got it plastered all over all of their--

00:39:06 ◼   ► - I'll bet.

00:39:07 ◼   ► - All of their vehicles, two and five.

00:39:11 ◼   ► - Remember that time and--

00:39:12 ◼   ► - So I feel like the thing that's funny to me though

00:39:13 ◼   ► is they want you to get the app, right?

00:39:15 ◼   ► - Yep. - Get the app.

00:39:16 ◼   ► And the app sees-- - Have the app,

00:39:17 ◼   ► have the app before it occurs to you that you need a cab

00:39:20 ◼   ► because you're drunk in an alley somewhere,

00:39:22 ◼   ► like what are you gonna do, download an app?

00:39:24 ◼   ► Like you need to have it on your phone already probably.

00:39:26 ◼   ► - And it's a new thing,

00:39:27 ◼   ► but they've come up with the name is a phone number.

00:39:29 ◼   ► Like it's still the 80s and you've got to go over, you know, does anybody have a quarter?

00:39:34 ◼   ► Give me a quarter, I got a call to get a cab.

00:39:36 ◼   ► - Right, you can just imagine the meeting where like,

00:39:38 ◼   ► all right, we'll do the app,

00:39:40 ◼   ► but it's gotta be the phone number.

00:39:42 ◼   ► - Right, and so their website is 215getacab.com.

00:39:47 ◼   ► - For some reason I'm reminded of,

00:39:50 ◼   ► I wanna say like in the early 2000s,

00:39:52 ◼   ► when, you know, the dotcoms had already started,

00:39:54 ◼   ► the dotcom like retail.coms, thepets.com and all,

00:39:57 ◼   ► it was clearly like things were a little rocky,

00:39:58 ◼   ► But there are more and more places that wanted to look like

00:40:01 ◼   ► an e-business.

00:40:02 ◼   ► And I think a lot of them were basically just like a CGI

00:40:05 ◼   ► or a Perl script that sends something to a fax machine.

00:40:08 ◼   ► You go in and you fill out a form.

00:40:10 ◼   ► You do not have any sense that anything electronic

00:40:12 ◼   ► was happening at all.

00:40:13 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:40:14 ◼   ► Not like today where you can like track things

00:40:15 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:40:16 ◼   ► I think it used to be pretty Rube Goldberg

00:40:18 ◼   ► to start a company like that.

00:40:19 ◼   ► - Right, yeah, I like the idea though that,

00:40:21 ◼   ► I think it was probably was true though

00:40:23 ◼   ► that a lot of places where you could order online,

00:40:25 ◼   ► it would generate a fax.

00:40:26 ◼   ► - Oh, that's how it works now.

00:40:28 ◼   ► If you order a lot of food online, all it does is print something out.

00:40:30 ◼   ► I mean, obviously, that's the installed base.

00:40:34 ◼   ► It just prints something out next to the cash register.

00:40:37 ◼   ► I don't know, man.

00:40:39 ◼   ► Should we talk about vaccines?

00:40:44 ◼   ► Oh, come on!

00:40:47 ◼   ► Oh, man!

00:40:51 ◼   ► Well if we end up, I was telling a friend of mine what our nominal topic for today was,

00:40:56 ◼   ► which I'm very excited about.

00:40:57 ◼   ► And my friend responded by saying,

00:40:59 ◼   ► you are gonna get so much email.

00:41:02 ◼   ► - Oh, we probably are.

00:41:02 ◼   ► - So we might as well jam it all into one episode.

00:41:05 ◼   ► Yeah, vaccines.

00:41:07 ◼   ► - So the thing that got me about the vaccines

00:41:09 ◼   ► with it being back in the news again

00:41:12 ◼   ► is like, it's everywhere now, right?

00:41:16 ◼   ► It's percolated up to like the national consciousness

00:41:20 ◼   ► and it's on the news every day now and all that stuff.

00:41:22 ◼   ► And I was like, why?

00:41:23 ◼   ► Why all of a sudden?

00:41:24 ◼   ► I mean, this is not a new thing.

00:41:25 ◼   ► I mean, this is only a story if there's a controversy, right? That's that's the thing. I couldn't just go these people are dumbasses

00:41:31 ◼   ► I will have to say well, there's still a couple scientists that haven't definitely decided on this

00:41:36 ◼   ► It's and I realized it's obvious. It's all because actual people got actual measles at Disneyland and

00:41:43 ◼   ► I didn't really put I saw this story and I thought well

00:41:47 ◼   ► Of course

00:41:48 ◼   ► They are did because there's a bunch of dopes who aren't getting there's so many people

00:41:52 ◼   ► Who aren't getting their kids immunized? Of course, there's an outbreak of I wasn't I was so unsurprised right that there was an outbreak of measles

00:41:58 ◼   ► It's Disneyland that I it seems like a perfect place for there to be a measles outbreak given the conditions

00:42:04 ◼   ► I I couldn't believe that it was news, you know

00:42:07 ◼   ► Whereas it's clearly is like the eye-opener for a lot of people like oh my god

00:42:12 ◼   ► You know if you don't get your kid in it just seems like that's a big part of the conversation is

00:42:16 ◼   ► Holy shit, if millions of people don't immunize their kids these kids can get measles

00:42:20 ◼   ► like that seems to be our national conversation yeah it's really

00:42:27 ◼   ► frustrating it's yeah I don't know what to say I also saw I saw an interesting

00:42:34 ◼   ► poll on on by by age whether you support mandatory immunization and it drops off

00:42:41 ◼   ► so precipitously it's like 70 year olds it's like almost universal support 60

00:42:45 ◼   ► year olds very high 50 40 kind of high and then when you well like once you

00:42:49 ◼   ► get in her 40s and 30s it's lower and then you talk to kids in their 20s and

00:42:53 ◼   ► it's like they you know it's like 15% support mandatory that doesn't mean that

00:42:58 ◼   ► they don't think people should do it they're just saying it shouldn't be

00:43:00 ◼   ► mandatory but I think that the reason that it's age it's like it's like

00:43:04 ◼   ► reading to your kid that's one of the things it's a good idea but yeah I don't

00:43:07 ◼   ► really technically have to do that that's the idea like yeah you don't have

00:43:10 ◼   ► to do that I don't have to give my kid a measles shot well the reason it's age

00:43:13 ◼   ► specific though is so obvious it's because older people remember what it's

00:43:17 ◼   ► like when your neighbor had polio right are they remember parents age who made

00:43:21 ◼   ► it through the depression and watched a neighbor on one side of them lose three

00:43:26 ◼   ► kids right or a sibling even right I mean we said my grandmother lost a

00:43:31 ◼   ► sibling - it flew in the I think you know right right around World War one

00:43:36 ◼   ► right so they've saw and then all of a sudden big scientists come out with just

00:43:42 ◼   ► a shot that makes your arms sore for a day and then you'll never get polio of

00:43:47 ◼   ► of course they support it. Yeah I don't know I'm trying so hard to grow as a

00:43:53 ◼   ► person John I'm trying really hard to be sympathetic and understand everybody's

00:43:58 ◼   ► position but it it's one of the things I think we talked years ago about the

00:44:03 ◼   ► thing remember the you told me this remember that there was that poll that

00:44:05 ◼   ► something was what was the percentage of people who were thoroughly convinced

00:44:09 ◼   ► that Obama is not eligible to be president even late late late in that

00:44:15 ◼   ► in that rumor, it was still like 40% or something ridiculous of people. And it's like there's the

00:44:21 ◼   ► thing is there's a you know there's there's a I've been reading this book that I'll apparently

00:44:29 ◼   ► mention on every podcast called the wisdom of insecurity by Alan Watts and he makes a

00:44:33 ◼   ► distinction in that book that really hit me. It makes a distinction between faith and belief,

00:44:36 ◼   ► which I found very persuasive with the idea that you know faith is a thing that we all have. Yeah

00:44:42 ◼   ► or sight unseen things that we, there's some part of us that has faith that these kinds of things

00:44:48 ◼   ► could happen, that there might be a heaven or whatever. Which is really different from belief,

00:44:51 ◼   ► because belief is a kind of a more dangerous thing. Because belief is where, you know,

00:44:55 ◼   ► there's not really that much to even discuss. Like, I've decided that this is how things are,

00:45:01 ◼   ► and nothing is going to talk me out of this because now it's become part of who I am.

00:45:04 ◼   ► Now I am a person who believes this about vaccines, or believes this about Obama.

00:45:08 ◼   ► And, you know, I think that can become very internalized. You and I probably have things

00:45:12 ◼   ► like that that we're not even aware of but you know that's the dangerous part

00:45:15 ◼   ► and there's no what we dumb liberals don't understand is there's no way there

00:45:20 ◼   ► are never gonna be enough infographics Venn diagrams or horrifying maps to

00:45:24 ◼   ► convince people of anything different I mean Jesus Christ we had George W Bush

00:45:28 ◼   ► in the White House for eight years people will believe anything well one of

00:45:32 ◼   ► the things that's interesting about the I think the whole immunization thing is

00:45:36 ◼   ► very sad and for anybody who's listening I do have enough listeners I'm sure that

00:45:39 ◼   ► there's got to be some of you who should stick to computers. Yeah, stick to computers who have

00:45:44 ◼   ► children who've chosen not to immunize. I do. I think one of the things that's I so I wanted to

00:45:50 ◼   ► I want to be a big person. I want to be as I don't want to be insulting, but I think one of the

00:45:56 ◼   ► things that's fascinating about it is that it has no traditional political divide. It's not a liberal

00:46:01 ◼   ► thing or a Republican thing or a conservative thing or a rural thing. It's like all over the map.

00:46:08 ◼   ► it's you know it's like when they poll i saw one poll that was like exactly 50 50 where like

00:46:12 ◼   ► they talked to i don't know however poll sample size number of parents who chose not to immunize

00:46:19 ◼   ► their children and who did you vote for in the last election and it was like 50 50 split really

00:46:24 ◼   ► yeah i had no do you think the reasons why they differ are different would they agree on the

00:46:30 ◼   ► reason why they decide not to do that i you know i don't know but i remember one of the big reasons

00:46:37 ◼   ► that it really caught on was I remember reading the article it was Robert F

00:46:42 ◼   ► Kennedy jr. wrote like a feature magazine length article I don't know if

00:46:45 ◼   ► it was for the Atlantic or one of those magazines like that you know back when

00:46:52 ◼   ► there was that one ingredient in the I mean you know that they were yeah I

00:46:56 ◼   ► thought we worried we worried about that I'll be honest with you yeah well Jonas

00:47:00 ◼   ► was around that age I mean it was at the height of it it was I think when Jonas

00:47:04 ◼   ► was he just turned 11 so I think when Jonas was getting that's like his first

00:47:09 ◼   ► year immunizations was before I think it was before that one paper in Britain had

00:47:17 ◼   ► been debunked oh the Lancet article right I think it was before it was

00:47:21 ◼   ► debunked so it was definitely you know it was a thing I don't know we were a

00:47:25 ◼   ► little you know I I didn't really put creeds into it but I you know I was it

00:47:30 ◼   ► I just remember it being a thing. We talked about it.

00:47:33 ◼   ► We ask a lot of questions, for sure. And they were very sober about it and actually

00:47:39 ◼   ► like oddly patient, like you have to be with a new parent. Because we pretty much knew we were just

00:47:43 ◼   ► going to have the one kid. It's like we don't get a lot of shots at this, so to speak. And we,

00:47:48 ◼   ► it was important to us to know that kind of stuff. I don't feel dumb for asking those questions

00:47:53 ◼   ► because they were very, the doctor was very straightforward about it. It's the same thing that

00:48:00 ◼   ► a lot of sensible people understand, which is like there's risks to everything in life,

00:48:03 ◼   ► but what we can tell you is the risks associated with vaccination are nothing compared with the

00:48:10 ◼   ► very demonstrable risks of not vaccinating. Yeah, as an individual, I think in terms of risk

00:48:15 ◼   ► analysis or cost benefit, it's not even a comparison. Right, and then I, you know,

00:48:21 ◼   ► especially when it comes to your kid, I think it's almost human instinct, at least in our modern

00:48:26 ◼   ► world where we're very as parents we're very selfish about our children that we

00:48:31 ◼   ► want will do anything for our kids and you know if you could prove that your

00:48:37 ◼   ► kid might be better off without as an individual would be better off without

00:48:41 ◼   ► immunizations versus the whole civic responsibility the herd you know the

00:48:46 ◼   ► herd meant the herd advantage of getting everybody immunized I can see it and I

00:48:52 ◼   ► think that's the basic thinking that's going on behind the people who chose not

00:48:55 ◼   ► to immunize their children that they're they value you know that they believe

00:48:59 ◼   ► some kind of bad thing can happen from the immunization right and regardless of

00:49:03 ◼   ► what it means but that's a sticky idea that's a very durable idea whether or

00:49:07 ◼   ► not it's true or accurate I can certainly understand why it's something

00:49:11 ◼   ► that that I mean I don't agree with it but I get why that's something that

00:49:15 ◼   ► people feel is a big risk you know but think about this I mean this is

00:49:19 ◼   ► something where I think we all have a I feel like I have a lot in common with

00:49:23 ◼   ► other people which is you know I've grown so I'm skeptical so cynical about

00:49:28 ◼   ► all the turns out announcements about what's dangerous and you know there's

00:49:32 ◼   ► been numerous you know articles over the years talking about the crazy history of

00:49:36 ◼   ► stuff like the the food pyramid right the USDA's food pyramid you're not USDA

00:49:41 ◼   ► so what it is what's the one that puts out the food pyramid like in the 70s

00:49:44 ◼   ► we'd like make sure you have tons and tons of bread and you know what I mean

00:49:47 ◼   ► and then it was so USDA you I but it was very much apparently very much formed by

00:49:53 ◼   ► these different industries not to be like a nut or something but your body

00:49:57 ◼   ► was never meant to handle this much corn my god no one's supposed to jam this

00:50:01 ◼   ► much corn into their hole it's nuts and then what happens to be old fats the

00:50:05 ◼   ► enemy okay so quit eating eggs all right so now fast the enemy so let's have

00:50:09 ◼   ► snack wells so everyone sits around and eats fat-free brownies with three cups

00:50:12 ◼   ► of sugar in it oh wait a minute no it turns out sugar is actually the enemy

00:50:15 ◼   ► and so forth look no further back than in the last decade look at fucking water

00:50:19 ◼   ► bottles. Do you follow this at all? No. Like what used to be you're like oh you're

00:50:24 ◼   ► killing the environment with all these cups so for God's sakes go out and buy a

00:50:27 ◼   ► Nalgene bottle and you had to have a Nalgene bottle. Where's your Nalgene

00:50:30 ◼   ► bottle? Those stupid plastic bottles. Oh no guess what? Turns out phthalates. Oh my

00:50:35 ◼   ► gosh you're gonna die because you're doing the right thing. So now you should

00:50:38 ◼   ► go and buy this kind of and now people are saying maybe those aluminum ones

00:50:41 ◼   ► that we used to replace the Nalgene bottles are bad. You know what the trouble

00:50:44 ◼   ► is it doesn't it kind of doesn't matter what is actually true accurate accurate

00:50:48 ◼   ► or known. What matters is we are scared to hurt ourselves and our kids and we're always going to

00:50:53 ◼   ► try and have the most recent information that we can find about what we should do about it.

00:50:57 ◼   ► I mean you're not even supposed to put plastic in the microwave anymore. Like what do you put

00:51:01 ◼   ► in the microwave? You know like throw the goddamn thing out if you can't put plastic in it. It's

00:51:05 ◼   ► useless. Who doesn't? I'm not going to make a bowl to warm something up. I'm not a fucking monster.

00:51:10 ◼   ► I remember coaching Little League a couple years ago. I am familiar with the whole water bottle

00:51:17 ◼   ► thing now and it had something to do with I think it was phthalates and I don't know.

00:51:21 ◼   ► I know baby remember baby bottles and phthalates.

00:51:23 ◼   ► I it's like it made me feel like time traveling dad from the 1950s you know like I'm just trying

00:51:31 ◼   ► to make sure none of these kids get hit in the mouth with a baseball right number one I don't

00:51:37 ◼   ► want anybody getting hit in the head with a baseball it's a constant fear you've got 12 kids

00:51:42 ◼   ► and at some point at least two of the 12 invariably are not paying attention to the game

00:51:47 ◼   ► and therefore are at risk of getting hit in the head with a baseball, which is bad.

00:51:51 ◼   ► So it's, you know, every game...

00:51:52 ◼   ► We can all agree on that.

00:51:54 ◼   ► Every game is two hours of non-stop. 95% of my attention is don't let any of these kids get

00:51:59 ◼   ► hit by a baseball. And then 5% of my attention is let's, you know, try to score some runs and

00:52:04 ◼   ► get some outs and maybe win the game. And in the meantime, there's this whole thing with the other,

00:52:08 ◼   ► all the other, I mean, not just moms either. It's moms and dads, and they're all talking about like,

00:52:12 ◼   ► "Oh, you got to get rid of that bottle. That bottle, you can't drink out of that."

00:52:15 ◼   ► Everybody's an expert.

00:52:17 ◼   ► And I'm just like, just give the kids some goddamn water.

00:52:20 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:52:20 ◼   ► When I was a kid, we'd finish each game

00:52:23 ◼   ► with 50 of those little--

00:52:26 ◼   ► Conical juice boxes.

00:52:27 ◼   ► Oh, sure, the water cups.

00:52:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:30 ◼   ► The conical paper cups.

00:52:31 ◼   ► You just leave them on the field.

00:52:32 ◼   ► Let the Indian clean them up.

00:52:34 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:52:35 ◼   ► You didn't even have to clean them up.

00:52:37 ◼   ► Yeah, totally.

00:52:38 ◼   ► Totally.

00:52:39 ◼   ► And I mean, it is funny, given how you and I already

00:52:42 ◼   ► come from a pampered generation in so many ways.

00:52:46 ◼   ► We're probably the last generation that has a chance of doing better than our parents in life.

00:52:50 ◼   ► But, um, for a while anyway.

00:52:52 ◼   ► But, you know, I mentioned this a lot, but like some of my, I'm not, okay guys, I'm not advocating for this,

00:52:58 ◼   ► but I have such, I wrote a thing about this one time.

00:53:00 ◼   ► Just having this memory of our old green Pontiac, my dad driving around, smoking a butt with the windows down,

00:53:08 ◼   ► and me like standing on the seat, like, or you could just stick your head out the window.

00:53:12 ◼   ► You would just do all this crazy stuff.

00:53:13 ◼   ► Seatbelts? You've got to be kidding me.

00:53:14 ◼   ► Do we even have seatbelts?

00:53:15 ◼   ► And now today my daughter doesn't do anything without a helmet.

00:53:18 ◼   ► I mean, that's on me.

00:53:20 ◼   ► I want to protect her head.

00:53:21 ◼   ► But it is pretty wild how many people manage to survive that.

00:53:26 ◼   ► Now at the same time, I was trying to explain to the best of my amateur ability

00:53:31 ◼   ► what the world population is and how it works.

00:53:34 ◼   ► I was saying to my kid, OK, I think there's like what?

00:53:36 ◼   ► Coming up on 7 billion people, something like that.

00:53:38 ◼   ► I was like, can you guess why that keeps going up?

00:53:41 ◼   ► And my hints were, well, one of them is when mommies and daddies get together,

00:53:44 ◼   ► what happens?" She goes, "Well, they have babies." I'm like, "Yeah, and when those babies grow up,

00:53:48 ◼   ► and they become mommies and daddies, what happens?" And they have like three kids. And she's like,

00:53:51 ◼   ► "Oh, I have seven more kids." And I was like, "But the other thing is, to our credit, I think,

00:53:56 ◼   ► people die of less completely preventable random shit than when I was a kid." I've got to stipulate,

00:54:04 ◼   ► thank God, for seat belts. They've made the road safer, the cars are safer, it's all safer.

00:54:08 ◼   ► Everybody knew somebody that had died in a car accident when I was a kid. It was just a thing.

00:54:13 ◼   ► It was cancer and car accidents killed and lung disease like killed everybody when I was a kid and they're all at least partially preventable

00:54:20 ◼   ► Right a huge to a huge swath of car accidents are preventable. Well in addition to seat belts. There's the whole

00:54:26 ◼   ► Have you seen the footage you had to that the difference in the crumple zones of like an old car in a new car?

00:54:32 ◼   ► It's it's almost farcical

00:54:35 ◼   ► Yeah, oh man those drivers ed movies. I still think about them. I've never unbuckled a dead man

00:54:40 ◼   ► My mom took our Pontiac to the dealership. She took it to a mechanic and said, "Look,

00:54:48 ◼   ► we bought this $8,000 car and it beeps when we sit in it if we don't put on the seat belt.

00:54:53 ◼   ► Can you turn that off?" And he said, "Yes, I will turn that off for you."

00:54:55 ◼   ► All right.

00:54:56 ◼   ► Or you just leave it fastened all the time.

00:55:01 ◼   ► My sister and I were not allowed to use the seat belts because we would mess them up.

00:55:05 ◼   ► Like, you know what I mean? Like they wouldn't retract right anymore or that, you know,

00:55:11 ◼   ► you get them twisted around.

00:55:12 ◼   ► It used to be pretty basic the way that it would retract. You could like get it off the runner,

00:55:17 ◼   ► like off the spool and it wouldn't go back in right.

00:55:19 ◼   ► Right. So at some point one of us had gotten one of the ones in the backseat twisted in the,

00:55:25 ◼   ► you know, the actual belt was twisted in the, what would you call it?

00:55:29 ◼   ► That little cartridge kind of thing.

00:55:30 ◼   ► Yeah, the cartridge that would slide to make it adjustable.

00:55:32 ◼   ► - I know exactly what you mean.

00:55:33 ◼   ► They were really primitive.

00:55:35 ◼   ► They didn't snap into place very well.

00:55:36 ◼   ► And it was very easy when feeding it back.

00:55:38 ◼   ► It would be like a roller blind,

00:55:42 ◼   ► getting slightly off track at the beginning

00:55:43 ◼   ► and then being way off track by the time it got to the end.

00:55:45 ◼   ► - It's a lot, the only thing that's similar to it anymore

00:55:47 ◼   ► are airplane seat belts.

00:55:49 ◼   ► But it was a lot,

00:55:50 ◼   ► the buckling connection was a lot more primitive.

00:55:52 ◼   ► But the way that you could slide it on the belt,

00:55:54 ◼   ► well, we'd gotten it twisted up

00:55:56 ◼   ► and it took my mom a long time to unfix it.

00:55:58 ◼   ► And so from then on, we weren't allowed to use seat belts.

00:56:02 ◼   ► just let them go.

00:56:03 ◼   ► It took her 15 minutes to get them untangled.

00:56:08 ◼   ► So then that was it, no more seat belts.

00:56:10 ◼   ► - What do you think is gonna happen with the vaccine stuff?

00:56:13 ◼   ► Do you think it'll take a generation?

00:56:15 ◼   ► Or does it take event generation

00:56:17 ◼   ► or does it take a measles 9/11?

00:56:19 ◼   ► Like what do you think will change and how

00:56:22 ◼   ► in the next however many end years?

00:56:24 ◼   ► - I've been thinking about, I don't think,

00:56:26 ◼   ► I don't think there's any way to go back on it.

00:56:27 ◼   ► And part of it is what we were saying a couple of minutes ago

00:56:31 ◼   ► where you can't, you can come at them,

00:56:33 ◼   ► like they've done studies that you go at them

00:56:35 ◼   ► with the most factual, statistical approach

00:56:38 ◼   ► of the relative safety of immunizations

00:56:41 ◼   ► and the fact that, you know, how horrible it is,

00:56:45 ◼   ► you know, measles can make you blind, kill people.

00:56:49 ◼   ► I think they said, I think just 46 people a day

00:56:53 ◼   ► die from measles around the world.

00:56:55 ◼   ► Something like that, around the world.

00:56:57 ◼   ► And you give them these facts,

00:57:00 ◼   ► and the people who don't want to vaccinate their kids

00:57:02 ◼   ► get the facts and they come out of it more convinced.

00:57:05 ◼   ► - I heard this, I did hear that.

00:57:07 ◼   ► But you know, facts are slippery things.

00:57:09 ◼   ► And I mean, if somebody that you didn't trust,

00:57:11 ◼   ► let's be honest, if somebody you didn't trust

00:57:13 ◼   ► that you considered to be a mouthpiece for an organization,

00:57:17 ◼   ► some kind of like the Laramie cigarettes guys

00:57:19 ◼   ► on The Simpsons, if somebody came to you

00:57:21 ◼   ► with some information and you knew

00:57:23 ◼   ► that they were compromised,

00:57:25 ◼   ► even if they gave you what they presented as facts,

00:57:27 ◼   ► you wouldn't listen to them.

00:57:29 ◼   ► or you probably wouldn't go look

00:57:30 ◼   ► at the primary research, right?

00:57:31 ◼   ► I'm the same way, I know what I believe,

00:57:34 ◼   ► I know what I think is BS.

00:57:36 ◼   ► It's just that, right back to that,

00:57:37 ◼   ► I think we've talked about this every time,

00:57:38 ◼   ► that Lakoff book, "Don't Think of an Elephant."

00:57:40 ◼   ► If you have a certain mental model for how reality works

00:57:44 ◼   ► and what relationships are

00:57:45 ◼   ► and how you determine what's real

00:57:47 ◼   ► and that overrides or supersedes new information

00:57:51 ◼   ► by an order of magnitude, right?

00:57:52 ◼   ► I mean, it's gotta, I mean,

00:57:54 ◼   ► the way that you have conducted yourself in the world

00:57:56 ◼   ► for however many end 30 some years whatever is likely to have such

00:58:01 ◼   ► I totally buy that you know and what your family believes

00:58:04 ◼   ► and what the people around you believe what the people your church believe it's

00:58:07 ◼   ► constantly being reinforced because that's part of your tribe that's

00:58:10 ◼   ► what your tribe believes and there's no reason not to i mean we've all got

00:58:13 ◼   ► tribal things like that right yeah like you like the stupid you like the

00:58:16 ◼   ► dallas cowboys you've got problems of your own

00:58:19 ◼   ► that's part of the problem though is that there's there is a sort of tribal

00:58:22 ◼   ► behavior where the the kids who are not immunized tend to be clustered because it spreads and you

00:58:30 ◼   ► become friends you know i mean we're not like super buddy buddy with any of the other parents

00:58:33 ◼   ► at school but you talk to them and you know and it's like it becomes like a thing where like now

00:58:39 ◼   ► like i forget what the the percentage is in marin county but it's just ridiculous marin's got a lot

00:58:44 ◼   ► of weird outliers marin also has a used to have as far as i know like a improbably high rate of

00:58:50 ◼   ► breast cancer. And I imagine there's ways that you could come up with why that is that don't involve,

00:58:56 ◼   ► you know, high power lines or something. It could be that they're getting detection better or

00:58:59 ◼   ► something. I don't know. But yeah, Marin's a thing. I remember Scott Simpson said something

00:59:07 ◼   ► made me laugh a long time ago when he had a kid and I didn't at the time have a kid. I think it

00:59:10 ◼   ► was a toot he had back in the Fevard days. He said something like there's two kinds of parents.

00:59:18 ◼   ► Like there's the helicopter parents that are more protective than me and I hate them.

00:59:23 ◼   ► And then there's the parents who are totally careless with their kids and I hate them too.

00:59:26 ◼   ► The way you evaluate everything is based on what you think. Everybody else is either too permissive

00:59:32 ◼   ► or too strict.

00:59:33 ◼   ► >> It's so totally true.

00:59:34 ◼   ► >> It's true, they're just a bunch of assholes.

00:59:36 ◼   ► >> Right.

00:59:37 ◼   ► Their kid's an asshole, he doesn't even know how to tie his shoes.

00:59:42 ◼   ► And then there's the other kid who's reckless.

00:59:44 ◼   ► >> Look at that guy.

00:59:45 ◼   ► >> What's wrong with these parents? They're maniacs, their kid's a menace.

00:59:47 ◼   ► Geez, come on kid, it's a jungle gym, let the kid play. Oh my God, I can't believe you let him get

00:59:52 ◼   ► on the jungle gym. Or even with what we want to talk about later, like with movies, like I cannot

01:00:02 ◼   ► believe they let their kid watch that. Or I can't believe that they don't want us to let him watch

01:00:06 ◼   ► Harry Potter. Oh, this is what makes it. I texted you about this this morning. I know we're not

01:00:12 ◼   ► getting into it just now, but the way I tried to phrase this to my daughter, and we'll come back to

01:00:16 ◼   ► this was like, you know, it's not just a matter of like, you know me, I like a facet. I like,

01:00:21 ◼   ► as they say in academics, I like problematizing. I like taking something that seems obvious and

01:00:24 ◼   ► figuring out how it's actually a mess. And so like with kids in media, it's not just like,

01:00:29 ◼   ► what do you show your kids? It's like, hmm, it's like, well, what kinds of stuff do you

01:00:33 ◼   ► show your particular kid at what point in their life, in what context, et cetera, et cetera, et

01:00:40 ◼   ► cetera, because we all know every kid's really different. I mean, anybody with two kids,

01:00:44 ◼   ► There's a kind of people who say,

01:00:45 ◼   ► Google's this kind of company,

01:00:46 ◼   ► Apple's this kind of company.

01:00:48 ◼   ► If you said to them, your three kids are identical,

01:00:50 ◼   ► they'd hit you in the face.

01:00:51 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:00:52 ◼   ► 'Cause all their kids are special flowers.

01:00:54 ◼   ► So I know we'll come back to that,

01:00:55 ◼   ► but oh, we're gonna get so much email.

01:00:57 ◼   ► - We're gonna get a lot of email.

01:00:58 ◼   ► Let me take a break.

01:00:59 ◼   ► Let's take a break and thank another one of our sponsors,

01:01:03 ◼   ► good friends at Harry's.

01:01:05 ◼   ► Now you guys know Harry's.

01:01:06 ◼   ► They're the people who make top-notch men's shaving stuff.

01:01:12 ◼   ► They've got razors, they've got razor handles,

01:01:15 ◼   ► they've got product, like shaving cream, shaving gel,

01:01:19 ◼   ► aftershave, that kind of stuff.

01:01:21 ◼   ► And the basic gist behind their story is

01:01:26 ◼   ► that they looked at the market for razors and shaving stuff

01:01:30 ◼   ► and saw that it was a mess.

01:01:32 ◼   ► It's stuff that's ugly, it's stuff that's overpriced,

01:01:35 ◼   ► it's stuff that's a pain in the ass to buy because--

01:01:37 ◼   ► - You gotta go hit a button and ask somebody

01:01:39 ◼   ► to come over with a key to let you please,

01:01:41 ◼   ► if I could, could I please have some razor blades?

01:01:44 ◼   ► - It's like when you remember when the compact disc stores

01:01:47 ◼   ► used to lock the CD.

01:01:49 ◼   ► - Oh yes.

01:01:49 ◼   ► You know what I love?

01:01:50 ◼   ► I go to my Walgreens seven times a day

01:01:52 ◼   ► and when I go there to buy some goddamn razor blades,

01:01:54 ◼   ► and I am a Harry's user now, to be honest,

01:01:56 ◼   ► but when I go in there to get like,

01:01:57 ◼   ► if I'm traveling and I wanna bring

01:01:59 ◼   ► this particular razor with me,

01:02:00 ◼   ► I go there and it's the same dingus kid

01:02:03 ◼   ► that I see seven times a day and I say,

01:02:05 ◼   ► "Oh, could I please have the,

01:02:06 ◼   ► "this and such, $75 worth of blades please?"

01:02:09 ◼   ► He's like, "Are you ready to check out now?"

01:02:10 ◼   ► I'm like, no, I wanna walk around the store

01:02:12 ◼   ► and steal stuff for a while.

01:02:13 ◼   ► No, he's got to walk me.

01:02:16 ◼   ► - Right.

01:02:16 ◼   ► - The assistant manager wants to walk me to the counter

01:02:19 ◼   ► so that I don't steal his precious Gillette's.

01:02:21 ◼   ► No offense.

01:02:22 ◼   ► Oh, it's the worst.

01:02:24 ◼   ► - I, one time I had to, I was at your neck of the woods.

01:02:28 ◼   ► I was in San Francisco for one of these Apple events

01:02:30 ◼   ► or something like that, and oh, I forgot my toothbrush.

01:02:33 ◼   ► Well, that's the sort of thing, I cannot,

01:02:37 ◼   ► I think not brushing your teeth for two or three days.

01:02:40 ◼   ► your mouth would feel horrible. You gotta take care of it. I guess I probably should have just

01:02:43 ◼   ► called down the front desk at the hotel and seen if they could do it. But I thought, well,

01:02:46 ◼   ► I gotta go out anyway. And I went on right there on Market Street to, I don't know, what is it?

01:02:50 ◼   ► Is it a, yeah, like a CVS or Walgreens? Yeah, I forget what they get, you know, but I go in there

01:02:55 ◼   ► and the goddamn toothbrushes were locked behind those. What? Yeah. Because I guess people steal

01:03:00 ◼   ► toothbrushes. I ran out of deodorant. I went to buy deodorant yesterday. All the deodorant was

01:03:05 ◼   ► under lock and key. So I got to call some kid to come over and unlock a little deodorant jail

01:03:10 ◼   ► to open it up for me and then walk me to the counter like an animal.

01:03:13 ◼   ► PAUL Right. And they wonder why we're buying all our stuff from Amazon. Well, anyway,

01:03:16 ◼   ► Harry's has this fixed. It's great stuff. They keep expanding their line. They've got new stuff.

01:03:22 ◼   ► So if you haven't checked them out in a while, go there. They have a new line, limited edition

01:03:27 ◼   ► razors, the Jimmy Chin line. They're inspired by Jimmy Chin, who's a – I'd never heard him before,

01:03:34 ◼   ► but he's an explorer and photographer. There's some pretty cool photos from him, but it's a new

01:03:40 ◼   ► limited edition line of razors. Really, really cool looking. They have great stuff. They also

01:03:45 ◼   ► have, they have these subscriptions. I don't know. They call them shave plans. You go there

01:03:50 ◼   ► and you tell them how often you shave. Do you shave every day? Do you shave once a week? Tell

01:03:55 ◼   ► them how often you shave and then you get a plan that will just have new stuff show up on a regular

01:04:01 ◼   ► basis right when you need it and you can cancel anytime you want to grow a beard

01:04:06 ◼   ► you want to stop shaving you want to switch to another brand you can just

01:04:08 ◼   ► cancel at any time it's like Tonks for for razors really so I mean like for

01:04:14 ◼   ► example I I've bought coffee like once in the last year because there was like

01:04:19 ◼   ► one stretch where I'd gotten ahead of my Tonks and needed to go buy it I don't

01:04:25 ◼   ► buy razors anymore I don't have to buy shaving cream anymore it just shows up

01:04:28 ◼   ► on a regular basis from Harry's really great stuff and they have a special deal

01:04:34 ◼   ► for listeners of the show the code is talk show just ta lk sh ow and that will

01:04:43 ◼   ► save you five bucks on your first order so it's only good for people who are

01:04:49 ◼   ► making their first order if you're already a Harry's customer just go and

01:04:52 ◼   ► renew and sign up for a plan sorry but if you're new if you haven't used it yet

01:04:56 ◼   ► use the code talk show know the and you'll save five bucks and you can get a

01:05:01 ◼   ► kit for like 15 bucks so you'd only cost you like 10 so for 10 bucks you can

01:05:05 ◼   ► totally upgrade your your shave good people at Harry's yeah great service you

01:05:12 ◼   ► know what make a great code good offer code what would make a good I will never

01:05:17 ◼   ► buy anything from assholes who paid John Gruber for sponsorships that was that

01:05:25 ◼   ► from our friend Dave over at man he was looking through his refers his refers

01:05:32 ◼   ► over at mad.com they sponsored a whole slew I love their sponsorships oh my god

01:05:38 ◼   ► that was the best sponsors ever I said still blows me away what they did with

01:05:42 ◼   ► the Darren fireballs like the four oh didn't do like a was like a 404 page or

01:05:45 ◼   ► something they once the one way they did like three straight weeks and the one

01:05:48 ◼   ► was a was a it was a typo and they wanted a typo into URL so it went to a

01:05:53 ◼   ► a 404 page. And so they got one referral, it looks like a Google Analytics screenshot they

01:05:59 ◼   ► posted. Right, they had one that was just the title of the link was an ellipse. It's

01:06:06 ◼   ► just three dots and then it just said the message that only went in the feed it just said in this

01:06:11 ◼   ► week before Christmas we thought it'd be nice to take our daring fireball sponsorship and not pitch

01:06:15 ◼   ► you on anything enjoy the holidays meh. And they didn't have a link it didn't it they signed it meh

01:06:20 ◼   ► but they didn't link to their website there was no there was no URL it just

01:06:24 ◼   ► went nowhere and then the week before was the one where they had the the ASCII

01:06:29 ◼   ► art of a guy flipping a table right that said Amazon upside down like with those

01:06:37 ◼   ► crazy Unicode characters that were happy holidays right which only made sense

01:06:42 ◼   ► which is cool because it only made sense if you knew the backstory yeah that

01:06:46 ◼   ► relationship yeah that they had started woot the same guys who did woot

01:06:50 ◼   ► and they sold the Amazon and you ever read that story like Paul kafasa sleep

01:06:57 ◼   ► oh yeah I think I think I did it it sounds like it was not ideal yeah it was

01:07:00 ◼   ► like Amazon bought them and they didn't do well they weren't happy it didn't see

01:07:04 ◼   ► my gam is uncared and and the founder had like a breakfast with Jeff Bezos

01:07:12 ◼   ► Bezos yeah he's oh so whatever and you know basis is going on and on about

01:07:17 ◼   ► whatever and he's like well look can I ask you a question he was like why did

01:07:20 ◼   ► you buy whoo and it was like he just like stared at his like breakfast and

01:07:25 ◼   ► there was like this one weird thing on his you know breakfast platter like a

01:07:29 ◼   ► some weird vegetable he was like your thing was like this this piece of weird

01:07:35 ◼   ► lettuce I didn't understand it so I wanted to buy it I didn't get it so I

01:07:41 ◼   ► just wanted to buy it what a psycho yeah it seems like a real nut job he does he

01:07:46 ◼   ► seems easy and like the whole story of like the Amazon the fire phone it just

01:07:50 ◼   ► sounds nuts yeah that was some great reporting I forget if I talked about

01:07:55 ◼   ► this on the show or if I just linked it up on during fireball but Austin Carr

01:07:58 ◼   ► wrote that for a fast company and really really top-notch like if you want to

01:08:05 ◼   ► bemoan the lack of actual reporting that goes on today man that's a great

01:08:09 ◼   ► counter example because he really did the legwork he clearly got people who

01:08:13 ◼   ► worked on that phone to talk and Bezos sounds like basically Bezos like it was his passion project. He

01:08:18 ◼   ► dove in with both feet and I don't say micromanaged, but he like he had would not. He would not go off

01:08:25 ◼   ► his decisions at any point, right? Like he was very decisive about exactly how this thing was

01:08:30 ◼   ► going to work. It wasn't listening to anybody. Yeah, yeah, I think long story short. Well,

01:08:35 ◼   ► how did the fire phone come to be? I would say long story short, based on Austin cards reporting.

01:08:40 ◼   ► it was something to the effect of we should do a phone if we do a phone should it should either be

01:08:47 ◼   ► really cheap or it should be asked if it's not really cheap then it has to compete with the

01:08:52 ◼   ► iphone oh and the 3d it's got to do 3d right well that become like a thing that was the thing like

01:08:57 ◼   ► so then the next step bezos was like well i want to compete with the iphone and because i think he

01:09:01 ◼   ► wanted to make a phone that he would actually use right so like what's the point of like them making

01:09:05 ◼   ► a cheap phone if they themselves are also going to use iphone so they wanted to they're going to go

01:09:08 ◼   ► go high-end. Then the next step in the logical chain is well then we have

01:09:12 ◼   ► to have a hook, right? There has to be something. If we're gonna sell a phone

01:09:15 ◼   ► that's like four or five hundred bucks, there has to be something that is

01:09:19 ◼   ► compelling about it. And Bezos latched on to this 3D thing, you know, everybody

01:09:25 ◼   ► knows the basic, you know, that there's 3D interface that using accelerometers

01:09:28 ◼   ► and four cameras on the front, you know, that it can, without any special

01:09:33 ◼   ► glasses it makes like a fake 3d effect on the flat surface of the phone and

01:09:40 ◼   ► there was like no budging him off that that's you know that's like our Siri

01:09:44 ◼   ► that's our hook that we can advertise everybody's gonna go nuts for it and

01:09:48 ◼   ► there was apparently a lot of internal skepticism that this would have any

01:09:52 ◼   ► actual appeal like well what's the point it's a niche the gist of a lot of the

01:09:56 ◼   ► people seem to think well it is a neat trick but what is the point and then the

01:10:00 ◼   ► phone shipped and everybody said well it's a neat trick but what's the point

01:10:03 ◼   ► but he stuck with it right well he printed up a lot of cardboard boxes that

01:10:09 ◼   ► said buy a fire phone that was so weird the first time I got an Amazon box with

01:10:13 ◼   ► that that on the tape I was like what I was like somebody sent me an Amazon

01:10:18 ◼   ► fire phone I thought the same thing I thought the same thing because every you

01:10:21 ◼   ► know and I thought it was believable for me because nobody's ever sent me a phone

01:10:27 ◼   ► Like no company but like I do get some equipment to try you weren't in a sprint program back in the day

01:10:33 ◼   ► No, I was in some well

01:10:35 ◼   ► I've gotten I got the G1 from Google HTC was nice enough to send me that I remember that that was fun

01:10:41 ◼   ► And but I was in this thing where Sprint would just they were sending bloggers like new phones every few months like in the days

01:10:47 ◼   ► Before I wrote because it was around the time of the iPhone and I finally got this totally crazy looking one

01:10:53 ◼   ► where it had screens on both sides and it was kind of meant to look like an

01:10:57 ◼   ► iPhone but you would do stuff you would need to flip the phone around and use

01:11:00 ◼   ► different keyboards and a touchscreen was totally crazy well but it's not

01:11:04 ◼   ► outlandish to know that that somebody would send me a firefight and that's

01:11:07 ◼   ► what I thought it was and it was a box it was a box that was about the size

01:11:10 ◼   ► that a phone might come in I was like I cannot believe somebody sent me a

01:11:13 ◼   ► fire phone and I opened it up and it was I don't know toothpaste so great all

01:11:20 ◼   ► - All right.

01:11:20 ◼   ► Should we do it?

01:11:24 ◼   ► - Well, let's do one more thing and then we'll do it.

01:11:26 ◼   ► Here's the other thing.

01:11:27 ◼   ► I wanna go circle back on the vaccinations.

01:11:30 ◼   ► - Oh, Jesus.

01:11:31 ◼   ► - Well, not the vaccinations in particular,

01:11:33 ◼   ► but to me, it's a product of the internet age.

01:11:36 ◼   ► This is why I'm a little pessimistic about it getting fixed

01:11:39 ◼   ► because I think pre-internet,

01:11:42 ◼   ► there just wasn't enough information for people to do that.

01:11:46 ◼   ► Like, your best source of information

01:11:48 ◼   ► the health of your kid was what your pediatrician told you and if your pediatrician said we

01:11:52 ◼   ► recommend these immunizations on this schedule well you know you're.

01:11:58 ◼   ► And maybe you might rely on your family too.

01:12:01 ◼   ► Right yeah.

01:12:02 ◼   ► Think about like the things you hear about brand loyalty and how people who are pampers

01:12:06 ◼   ► you know the mom used pampers so they use pampers and we're a Heinz ketchup family and

01:12:10 ◼   ► so forth like you know I think a lot of people especially at a young and impressionable age

01:12:14 ◼   ► having a kid take a lot of that from from what their family would say they'd be like

01:12:17 ◼   ► Are you kidding me? You know, you know aunt Linda died because she wasn't vaccinated. Of course, you're gonna vaccinate your kids

01:12:23 ◼   ► And it's you know that now though, you know

01:12:26 ◼   ► Not that I'm not trying to say that pre-internet that nobody questioned their doctor, of course

01:12:30 ◼   ► I mean, you know the second opinion is part of our vernacular, you know, of course people might question their doctor

01:12:36 ◼   ► Especially if you know the recommendation was surgery or something like that

01:12:41 ◼   ► But now it's so easy for people to just find what they want to find whereas you couldn't do that before and there's that

01:12:48 ◼   ► Stencil it's a spray-painted stencil. It's all you know, you can't go anywhere without seeing it, but you see it everywhere

01:12:53 ◼   ► This the saying stop making stupid people famous

01:12:56 ◼   ► Right, which is trite, but it's true

01:13:00 ◼   ► It is absolutely the problem of the modern age is that we've made a lot of stupid people very famous and not but I also feel

01:13:07 ◼   ► think about something like WebMD and I don't think any of us can say we've

01:13:11 ◼   ► never looked at WebMD when we're pretty sure we have cancer. Like you know there

01:13:15 ◼   ► is also the the internet has empowered us to believe that we we can learn a lot

01:13:21 ◼   ► on our own. I guess this is kind of what you're already saying but you know now

01:13:24 ◼   ► we feel like there's this resource in the same way that we might not go spend

01:13:27 ◼   ► several weeks at the library you know looking up carcinoma. Now today like

01:13:31 ◼   ► we'll keep keep looking until we find the thing that makes sense to us. Yeah and

01:13:36 ◼   ► And it's, you know, yeah, again,

01:13:38 ◼   ► the worst thing you can possibly do

01:13:39 ◼   ► when you have some kind of health problem is Google it.

01:13:41 ◼   ► And it's, of course, the first thing that we all do.

01:13:43 ◼   ► I mean, you can't help but do it,

01:13:45 ◼   ► but it's the worst thing you can do.

01:13:47 ◼   ► - Totally.

01:13:48 ◼   ► - It's 'cause it's just gonna,

01:13:49 ◼   ► now you have whatever your problem is

01:13:51 ◼   ► and now you've got terrible anxiety about it

01:13:53 ◼   ► because you've proven that you have, you know,

01:13:56 ◼   ► something incurable.

01:13:57 ◼   ► - Have you ever gone into a doctor's office

01:13:58 ◼   ► with a printout?

01:13:59 ◼   ► - No, I have not.

01:14:02 ◼   ► - They do not like that.

01:14:03 ◼   ► - Nope, but I'm not saying I wouldn't, though.

01:14:06 ◼   ► I'm not saying I wouldn't I'm just saying I haven't.

01:14:08 ◼   ► - I could see Amy doing a lot of research.

01:14:11 ◼   ► I could see her being a very well informed

01:14:13 ◼   ► with the kid stuff.

01:14:14 ◼   ► I could see her being a very well informed parent

01:14:16 ◼   ► on that stuff.

01:14:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think she's very, she's hyper informed.

01:14:20 ◼   ► - And hyper vigilant, right?

01:14:23 ◼   ► Like she's got that EpiPen,

01:14:25 ◼   ► she's like Marshall Dillon with that thing, right?

01:14:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, and she does, she really does know

01:14:29 ◼   ► an awful lot about it.

01:14:31 ◼   ► Again, I think she'd be the first to tell you

01:14:33 ◼   ► that she does not know more than our Jonas's allergist does,

01:14:37 ◼   ► but she certainly knows a lot more than she used to.

01:14:40 ◼   ► But I do think that that's, I don't know,

01:14:44 ◼   ► I feel like that's a big part of the problem

01:14:46 ◼   ► of the modern age is that you can,

01:14:48 ◼   ► there's a, it's easy for anybody to have a soapbox

01:14:52 ◼   ► and get more than just the people who can,

01:14:59 ◼   ► in the old days if you were a lunatic,

01:15:02 ◼   ► only the people within earshot could hear you.

01:15:05 ◼   ► Now anybody can listen.

01:15:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's funny.

01:15:07 ◼   ► There's all these little,

01:15:08 ◼   ► setting aside the dark web or the dark net or whatever,

01:15:11 ◼   ► there's this one funny sort of source of information

01:15:16 ◼   ► that's been around for a long time

01:15:17 ◼   ► but still remains largely hidden from plain sight,

01:15:20 ◼   ► which is forums or fora, I guess.

01:15:23 ◼   ► There are so many places where if you Google

01:15:25 ◼   ► for certain kinds of information,

01:15:27 ◼   ► all kinds of certain kinds of information,

01:15:29 ◼   ► you are very likely to,

01:15:32 ◼   ► Somebody suggested for example, yesterday I was talking,

01:15:35 ◼   ► I think yesterday I'm back to work talking about how I'm trying not to drink too much coffee.

01:15:38 ◼   ► You know, I don't want to be too spazzy and somebody had recommended this stuff called L-theanamine or something like that,

01:15:44 ◼   ► which is like a green tea extract or something.

01:15:46 ◼   ► And so I went in and I googled it.

01:15:48 ◼   ► And like so many results on forums where people are like saying the most outlandish things.

01:15:54 ◼   ► But like I kept reading it.

01:15:56 ◼   ► I immediately felt like, you know, I got to take all this with a grain of salt,

01:16:00 ◼   ► but I still kept reading looking for somebody who sounded like they knew what they were talking about and I have no way of knowing if anybody's knows what they're talking about.

01:16:06 ◼   ► I think it's a very common thing.

01:16:08 ◼   ► Do you find that as I'm getting older and I find that I'm getting a lot more sensitive to things like having drunk too much coffee.

01:16:16 ◼   ► Oh, absolutely.

01:16:18 ◼   ► I don't think it's like I think it's actually more of like a self-awareness though than like not that I used to be able to metabolize more.

01:16:24 ◼   ► more it's that I would drink too much coffee and wouldn't even notice whereas

01:16:30 ◼   ► now I'm like wow my brain is bananas right now oh yeah I I talk about this a

01:16:35 ◼   ► lot on the show with Dan I mean I have to be very circumspect about something

01:16:40 ◼   ► that sounds unbelievable to me now which is that I have to be very careful about

01:16:45 ◼   ► how much caffeine or stimulants in general I put in my body after about 12

01:16:49 ◼   ► for one because they say the half-life or like that's mostly out of your body

01:16:53 ◼   ► in like eight hours and that's not true for me.

01:16:55 ◼   ► I'll just be laying, if I have a coffee at two,

01:16:57 ◼   ► I'll just be laying there in bed with my heart beating.

01:16:59 ◼   ► And so, and also, another thing I said other places,

01:17:03 ◼   ► is I feel like I don't always get the same positive effects

01:17:05 ◼   ► that I used to get, but I definitely still get

01:17:07 ◼   ► all the negative effects.

01:17:09 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:17:10 ◼   ► Where I don't, it used to be where I was like,

01:17:12 ◼   ► I'm young and virile and I can have Thai food and coffee

01:17:15 ◼   ► at 11 at night, whoosh.

01:17:16 ◼   ► And now today, like, that's just,

01:17:18 ◼   ► that's a terrible idea for me.

01:17:20 ◼   ► So yeah, the sensitivity, for real.

01:17:21 ◼   ► yeah there's lots of stuff like that foods too I mean I

01:17:25 ◼   ► anyway I make the same amount of coffee every day

01:17:28 ◼   ► and I think it's you know it's like the right dose for me but then like

01:17:32 ◼   ► I used to I don't really do anymore like sometimes I just get bored at four in the

01:17:35 ◼   ► afternoon and think well I have another

01:17:36 ◼   ► I'll you know go make one of these. I've done that my whole life that's exactly what I would do

01:17:39 ◼   ► some people eat at three o'clock and I'm like I want to have a coffee

01:17:43 ◼   ► I'll go make one I'll make one cup with the AeroPress and then I'll you know

01:17:46 ◼   ► taste a little better

01:17:47 ◼   ► and and then I'm you know at like six

01:17:51 ◼   ► PM, I'm like, wait, I've been trying to read this 800 word article for half an hour.

01:17:56 ◼   ► And instead, I've got 20 other tabs here. I really wanted to read this article. What happened to it?

01:18:01 ◼   ► I totally had that this morning. I had two cups of coffee.

01:18:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:05 ◼   ► Well, and then I'm like, that's a freaking coffee. I should not have had that extra coffee.

01:18:10 ◼   ► I did that this morning. I had two cups of coffee and I sat down to read the entire Wikipedia page

01:18:15 ◼   ► on the history of the MPAA rating system, which doesn't seem that hard. It's pretty standard

01:18:20 ◼   ► English I got like I got like two headings in and I was like let's ride

01:18:23 ◼   ► bikes I you know I couldn't even concentrate so I'm slightly prepped but

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01:20:36 ◼   ► All right, here's the idea

01:20:41 ◼   ► What do you want to do out you you you mentioned it because it was actually your idea at first no

01:20:45 ◼   ► You know, you can go ahead. Well the basic idea not to turn it into a parenting podcast, but it's it's

01:20:50 ◼   ► the

01:20:52 ◼   ► overarching dilemma of what movies

01:20:55 ◼   ► Do you let your kids watch when like what age like where do you balance this and I have found it to be?

01:21:02 ◼   ► Oh

01:21:05 ◼   ► For the you know from the get-go right from when he was Jonas was old enough to just sit in front of a TV

01:21:10 ◼   ► It's a vexing dilemma, and I never totally a moving target. I

01:21:15 ◼   ► Totally and I never anticipated it being difficult. I

01:21:19 ◼   ► Just always thought before I had a kid that at any given moment

01:21:23 ◼   ► You could give me any movie or TV show and I could instantly tell you whether it was age-appropriate or not

01:21:28 ◼   ► But it ends up being I think devilishly tricky. Well exactly right

01:21:31 ◼   ► So, I mean the only thing I would want to establish is that you know, we went to college and stuff

01:21:35 ◼   ► We understand that there are things like ratings. I think that the part that makes this so challenging

01:21:40 ◼   ► is how different every kid is in terms of what they are sensitive to.

01:21:45 ◼   ► What's likely to be problematic or you know to cause troubles and nightmares.

01:21:51 ◼   ► It's not as simple. I would postulate it's not nearly as simple as

01:21:56 ◼   ► just saying I'm gonna trust the MPAA because there are plenty of g-rated

01:21:59 ◼   ► movies with stuff in it that a three-year-old, some three-year-olds, right?

01:22:02 ◼   ► A given three-year-old should not see and if the parents know that like you

01:22:07 ◼   ► know it's really good to avoid that I mean one that comes up a lot it's like

01:22:11 ◼   ► scary music a genre of what's just called scary music like boom cellos we're

01:22:15 ◼   ► going into the woods some kids that could watch somebody be decapitated

01:22:19 ◼   ► freak out my daughter things jumping into and out of frame completely freak

01:22:24 ◼   ► her out real oh yeah you know like in like a horror movie kind of thing like

01:22:27 ◼   ► we're so I know you yeah like in the background pops up even in in any kind

01:22:32 ◼   ► of a movie no matter how innocuous it can kind of freak her out so yeah

01:22:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly, it's not, the thing is it's,

01:22:38 ◼   ► and then on the other hand there are some kids

01:22:40 ◼   ► where like if you fast forward through this one scene

01:22:43 ◼   ► or this other scene, they would be totally fine

01:22:45 ◼   ► watching some PG-13 movies.

01:22:47 ◼   ► And it's just, I think it's,

01:22:49 ◼   ► I'm sure we both have some horror stories

01:22:51 ◼   ► about terrible decisions, but also just,

01:22:54 ◼   ► I think it's interesting to talk about

01:22:55 ◼   ► 'cause I think everybody wants to look like

01:22:57 ◼   ► they're real smart about it,

01:22:58 ◼   ► and I think almost everybody who lets their kid

01:23:00 ◼   ► watch movies worries about it.

01:23:03 ◼   ► Worries about getting the mix wrong.

01:23:05 ◼   ► Yeah, and I'll give you one example from Jonas when he was young.

01:23:11 ◼   ► And we, I would say on the grand scheme of things, we are relatively permissive and always

01:23:16 ◼   ► have been.

01:23:17 ◼   ► But I don't –

01:23:18 ◼   ► You think?

01:23:19 ◼   ► I do.

01:23:20 ◼   ► I'm laughing because I used to shake my head when you would tell me things that you would

01:23:25 ◼   ► let him do and now I do the same stuff.

01:23:28 ◼   ► But also I really feel like a big part of that though was knowing what he was good with

01:23:33 ◼   ► and he was good. I think with relatively advanced like violence in movies, you know he watched Star

01:23:41 ◼   ► Wars very very young and you know I don't think that there I watched it when I was in kindergarten

01:23:46 ◼   ► too. That was my thinking. I don't know. I was in kindergarten when it came out. I turned out all

01:23:49 ◼   ► right. But I remember but you never know though there's always little things so one of the we

01:23:55 ◼   ► let him watch the Pirates of the Caribbean movies at a very early age. And I think that those are

01:24:01 ◼   ► PG I don't think they're PG-13 I don't know man they got some pretty spooky stuff well he didn't

01:24:05 ◼   ► but the point is he didn't mind it no not at all except for one scene which is and I don't remember

01:24:11 ◼   ► which one of them it's in but there's one scene where uh uh it must have been the first one where

01:24:19 ◼   ► they're going after the gold that if you stole the gold you became a ghost or whatever and you had to

01:24:22 ◼   ► drop a piece of blood and they cut somebody somebody takes a knife and just puts like a little

01:24:27 ◼   ► like a PG rated cut on the palm of somebody's hand. Oh, yeah, and

01:24:31 ◼   ► He it just flipped him out and he had like a fit and he was like we're like, what's wrong?

01:24:37 ◼   ► What's wrong?

01:24:38 ◼   ► And he just was holding his hand and he said like I can feel it I can feel it and he's just screaming

01:24:43 ◼   ► Like it made him feel as though his hand had been cut but my kid will come

01:24:48 ◼   ► Compulsively I was the word I'm looking for

01:24:51 ◼   ► Well, like automatically like violently turn away from the screen whenever there's blood like, you know

01:24:55 ◼   ► like a cut or something like that or like a wound. She absolutely turns away.

01:24:59 ◼   ► RL Yeah, and so we –

01:25:00 ◼   ► CB And so, it was like middle of the day, noon,

01:25:04 ◼   ► me working at home like probably five, six years ago. And we both looked at each other like we just

01:25:13 ◼   ► gave each other this look like, "Oh my God, what have we done? We've wrecked this poor child's mind

01:25:17 ◼   ► by letting him watch this movie that we should have known he was too young to watch." But you just

01:25:23 ◼   ► just never know. And then and and he would be good. He wouldn't

01:25:26 ◼   ► refuse to watch that movie, but I'll tell you what he had it

01:25:29 ◼   ► down stone. He knew exactly when that scene was coming up

01:25:33 ◼   ► and he would run out and he would say what he used to say.

01:25:36 ◼   ► He'd call it past past forward. My daughter would say fast over

01:25:41 ◼   ► past. She says that he passed over that yeah anytime when

01:25:45 ◼   ► they got to the point where in Toy Story two when Buzz has to

01:25:48 ◼   ► at the beginning in the video game when he has to walk out

01:25:50 ◼   ► across the floating disks.

01:25:52 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, yeah. - Should I say daddy fast over?

01:25:55 ◼   ► - Fast over, I like that one too.

01:25:57 ◼   ► They're both good.

01:25:58 ◼   ► Pass forward.

01:25:59 ◼   ► - Oh my God, it's--

01:26:01 ◼   ► - Jonas's list included the Wampa, no Wampa.

01:26:06 ◼   ► - Oh, see, and that's a good, that's another example

01:26:08 ◼   ► of a jumping into frame thing.

01:26:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, you know what, that's it, yeah.

01:26:12 ◼   ► 'Cause, you know, and the suspense, right?

01:26:16 ◼   ► It's 'cause the Wampa, the first time you see him,

01:26:21 ◼   ► it's the shock air, right?

01:26:23 ◼   ► Like Luke is like looking for comets or whatever

01:26:25 ◼   ► to hit the ground and all of a sudden, boom,

01:26:28 ◼   ► the Wampa jumps into frame and makes a terrible noise.

01:26:31 ◼   ► So you've got that, right?

01:26:33 ◼   ► That, and yeah, that, Jonas didn't like that.

01:26:36 ◼   ► And Jonas wanted that whole, the whole thing skipped though

01:26:38 ◼   ► because he also could not bear the suspense of Luke.

01:26:42 ◼   ► - Hanging there like a side of beef.

01:26:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, and not, you know, it's like the first time

01:26:46 ◼   ► he's ever even tried to use the force to get a lightsaber

01:26:49 ◼   ► and it's just sitting there jiggling, you know.

01:26:51 ◼   ► It's like film school 101, you know,

01:26:53 ◼   ► like how to build a little suspense, you know,

01:26:55 ◼   ► jiggle the lightsaber, do this, the mute, you know,

01:26:58 ◼   ► perfect, of course, John Williams score for the moment,

01:27:01 ◼   ► which furthers the suspense, couldn't take it.

01:27:04 ◼   ► It would just have like an aneurysm.

01:27:06 ◼   ► - What about one that I was scared of

01:27:08 ◼   ► and my kid was scared of, what about in episode four

01:27:11 ◼   ► when Luke's looking through the binoculars

01:27:13 ◼   ► and the Tuscan Raider goes, "Rrrr!"

01:27:16 ◼   ► - No. - Not at all.

01:27:17 ◼   ► - Even though, to me, it's actually just,

01:27:19 ◼   ► it's the same thing, right? - Yeah, totally.

01:27:20 ◼   ► - No, yeah, it didn't bother him, nope.

01:27:23 ◼   ► - That's so weird.

01:27:24 ◼   ► See, this is what I'm talking about.

01:27:25 ◼   ► - Right, the Wampa, terrifying.

01:27:27 ◼   ► The Tuscan Raider who does the exact same thing. (laughs)

01:27:32 ◼   ► - You know, but you know, here's, but you get,

01:27:34 ◼   ► I remember talking to Matt Howey about this

01:27:35 ◼   ► and about how his daughter, he felt like his daughter was,

01:27:38 ◼   ► you know, very sensitive to certain kinds of things.

01:27:40 ◼   ► She's a really sweet kid, and is like relationship things,

01:27:42 ◼   ► and some people are very sensitive to almost everything

01:27:44 ◼   ► and other people, it's virtually impossible to tell.

01:27:47 ◼   ► My daughter has seen some really grisly shit in movies.

01:27:50 ◼   ► Like she saw Deadpool putting his head back on

01:27:52 ◼   ► at the end of an X-Men.

01:27:53 ◼   ► I didn't show her the whole movie.

01:27:54 ◼   ► I was just like, you gotta see the scene

01:27:55 ◼   ► where Deadpool puts his head back on.

01:27:57 ◼   ► It's pretty great.

01:27:58 ◼   ► A terrible movie.

01:27:58 ◼   ► But there are some things where I can't guess.

01:28:01 ◼   ► Okay, so for example, she's watched a ton of Doctor Who,

01:28:03 ◼   ► a little scared by the Daleks.

01:28:05 ◼   ► She's watched pretty much almost every Marvel movie

01:28:09 ◼   ► except for a few.

01:28:11 ◼   ► And all the Star Wars movies numerous times.

01:28:14 ◼   ► But then you know what we watch?

01:28:15 ◼   ► Did you ever see that show on Cartoon Network

01:28:18 ◼   ► from last year called Over the Garden Wall?

01:28:20 ◼   ► - No, never heard of it.

01:28:21 ◼   ► - It's kind of like, it's an Adventure Timey thing

01:28:23 ◼   ► about these two little boys who are brothers

01:28:25 ◼   ► having these like kind of fairytale adventures

01:28:27 ◼   ► combined with like a Silly Symphonies cartoon feel.

01:28:29 ◼   ► It's a really great show,

01:28:31 ◼   ► but it is like a fairytale kind of show

01:28:35 ◼   ► where there's scary stuff that's not exactly explained.

01:28:39 ◼   ► But it's a kids show.

01:28:40 ◼   ► It's like it is in the same way as Adventure Time, kind of.

01:28:42 ◼   ► It's kind of a kids show.

01:28:44 ◼   ► And that is the one stuck with her,

01:28:46 ◼   ► this creature on there called the Beast.

01:28:48 ◼   ► And I didn't find out for weeks

01:28:49 ◼   ► that she thought the Beast was under her bed.

01:28:51 ◼   ► She was scared to even say anything.

01:28:53 ◼   ► And I was like, "Oh honey, I am so sorry."

01:28:54 ◼   ► And mom, of course, gives me the eyes.

01:28:57 ◼   ► It's like, "See, see, see?

01:28:58 ◼   ► "I knew this was gonna happen."

01:28:59 ◼   ► But again, would you guess?

01:29:01 ◼   ► I mean, she didn't mind people's faces melting off

01:29:03 ◼   ► in Raiders of the Lost Ark,

01:29:05 ◼   ► But the idea of like a black bee,

01:29:07 ◼   ► this kind of cartoon bear in the forest is terrifying.

01:29:11 ◼   ► Who knows?

01:29:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, I remember I had a friend growing up who,

01:29:15 ◼   ► I missed, I don't know how,

01:29:18 ◼   ► but I missed Raiders of the Lost Ark

01:29:20 ◼   ► when it was in the theaters.

01:29:22 ◼   ► So I didn't see it.

01:29:23 ◼   ► But it always bothered me.

01:29:25 ◼   ► - How old were you?

01:29:26 ◼   ► I was about 13, 14.

01:29:28 ◼   ► - I was eight.

01:29:29 ◼   ► So, you know, or nine, eight?

01:29:32 ◼   ► I think it was 1981, so I was eight.

01:29:34 ◼   ► But I desperately wanted to see it,

01:29:37 ◼   ► couldn't understand how I missed it.

01:29:39 ◼   ► Seemed like something I could've got my dad to take me to.

01:29:41 ◼   ► Somehow I missed it, but then, of course,

01:29:43 ◼   ► once it was out of theaters, there was no chance to see it.

01:29:45 ◼   ► But I knew the basic story,

01:29:47 ◼   ► and I just knew that there was something about it

01:29:49 ◼   ► at the end, everybody's faces melted.

01:29:51 ◼   ► And my one friend growing up

01:29:52 ◼   ► was completely freaked out about it.

01:29:55 ◼   ► He had gone to see it and came out crying,

01:29:57 ◼   ► embarrassed himself, like his mom came out

01:30:00 ◼   ► of the movie theater. - Poor kid, oh no.

01:30:02 ◼   ► just cry and he wasn't the type of scary because it isn't just that like haha

01:30:06 ◼   ► little skin melts off it's like a full-on Ray Harry housing thing we're

01:30:09 ◼   ► like their entire head like it's a horrifying really effective effect yeah

01:30:15 ◼   ► yeah but he was freaked out and he was the type of kid who just would not you

01:30:19 ◼   ► know he wasn't like a sense you wouldn't call him a sensitive kid you really

01:30:23 ◼   ► wouldn't you know it's just a normal boy who's going to see what should be and

01:30:27 ◼   ► that just was happened to be his thing yeah I get just touched a nerve what

01:30:31 ◼   ► What about, have you seen either the trailer or the movie for Paddington?

01:30:36 ◼   ► That's probably Little Young for Jonas.

01:30:38 ◼   ► Yeah, no.

01:30:39 ◼   ► But you've seen the trailer, right?

01:30:40 ◼   ► I've seen the trailer.

01:30:41 ◼   ► Okay.

01:30:42 ◼   ► The trailer, I have heard from friends that the movie is, well, it's one of those movies,

01:30:46 ◼   ► one of those rare movies where the movie is actually way better than the trailer looks,

01:30:49 ◼   ► which I'm very glad to hear.

01:30:50 ◼   ► But you've seen the trailer.

01:30:51 ◼   ► There's a scene where he's in the bathroom.

01:30:53 ◼   ► I don't, I'm going to, someday my daughter's going to hear this.

01:30:55 ◼   ► I'm going to be in so much trouble.

01:30:56 ◼   ► There's a scene in the bathroom where he's like interacting with what it is to be a bear

01:31:00 ◼   ► using the bathroom and he takes a toothbrush and sticks it in his ear and pulls out this giant wad

01:31:06 ◼   ► of totally disgusting looking earwax. It's a dumb shot. It's about three seconds and if I say the

01:31:14 ◼   ► word Paddington my kid gets freaked out. She cannot stop thinking about the disgusting earwax. She

01:31:18 ◼   ► will hear nothing about going to see that movie because of this one scene with earwax. Remember

01:31:23 ◼   ► she's seen Deadpool put his head back on but the earwax thing put her off her beer. Yeah it's

01:31:28 ◼   ► inexplicable. Can I toss out one more axis in bad parenting is the balance, weighing the balance.

01:31:37 ◼   ► Okay, so let's take an extreme example. Let's take a kid who's like a classic introduction to movies

01:31:46 ◼   ► age of like five. Would you show your kid the third X-Men movie if they're five years old?

01:31:55 ◼   ► See now me, I'm gonna go, "You know what? I'm not because it's not a very good movie.

01:32:01 ◼   ► There is a lot of inside words in it as we say in our house. There is some violence in it,

01:32:06 ◼   ► but you know what? It's just not worth it because whatever she sees in it, it's not worth it because

01:32:09 ◼   ► the movie is not that good. Would you hesitate to show your kid Toy Story 2? Oh my gosh, no.

01:32:14 ◼   ► It's got scary things in it, a little bit, but it's so worth it." Right? So isn't that part of

01:32:20 ◼   ► the balance though? It isn't like you're making your kids sit there and watch Castle Freak or

01:32:23 ◼   ► or something like you're thinking like oh this is a perfect is this the perfect age

01:32:28 ◼   ► to introduce this wonderful story to this kid yeah that's a very good point um it has

01:32:35 ◼   ► to be you know the the quality of the movie factors because i mean in my own defense i'm

01:32:39 ◼   ► sitting there with her watching the movie like what you know except in the case of mulan

01:32:42 ◼   ► too when i'm on my ipad like i am there watching the movie with her we're talking about the

01:32:47 ◼   ► movie not that it's like you know freaking harvard or something but just to be clear

01:32:50 ◼   ► Like I it's got to be a movie. I like it's got to be good and it's got to be appropriate

01:32:54 ◼   ► given what I can know or guess I

01:32:56 ◼   ► Totally agree with that. I think you know what else had Jonah seen early

01:33:04 ◼   ► I mean he saw the Bond movies back when Dan and I were talking about him

01:33:07 ◼   ► I mean, you know, I don't know if you watched all of them with me

01:33:09 ◼   ► but he sat through a bunch of them with me and

01:33:11 ◼   ► that was weird on two levels because it also in addition to the fact that it's kind of violent for a

01:33:17 ◼   ► a kid who was probably six or seven at the time.

01:33:20 ◼   ► There's the anachronisms, right?

01:33:25 ◼   ► I mean, I think Dan and I spent like half an hour

01:33:27 ◼   ► just talking about-- - I got you on the pacing.

01:33:29 ◼   ► And this is one that blew me out of the water.

01:33:30 ◼   ► I sent you that picture of my kid

01:33:31 ◼   ► punching Goldfinger in the face at a casino.

01:33:34 ◼   ► Here's the thing, I knew this one was gonna be

01:33:37 ◼   ► a long shot. - Look, people are gonna think

01:33:39 ◼   ► that that was like a total Merlin euphemism,

01:33:42 ◼   ► but you literally sent me a text

01:33:44 ◼   ► with a picture of your daughter

01:33:46 ◼   ► next to a picture of Goldfinger.

01:33:48 ◼   ► - An unlicensed mural of James Bond characters.

01:33:51 ◼   ► Punching our Goldfinger in the face.

01:33:54 ◼   ► Okay, so, okay, and this one,

01:33:58 ◼   ► I barely, barely, barely got this one past the censors.

01:34:00 ◼   ► My wife was pretty iffy about this.

01:34:03 ◼   ► 'Cause if it's one where we're really worried,

01:34:04 ◼   ► I will watch the entire movie through again to be sure.

01:34:07 ◼   ► I definitely, we have to find time

01:34:09 ◼   ► to talk about '80s movies

01:34:10 ◼   ► and how, what completely weird animals '80s movies are.

01:34:13 ◼   ► 'Cause you never know when some boobies

01:34:15 ◼   ► are gonna show up in an '80s movie.

01:34:16 ◼   ► It's crazy.

01:34:17 ◼   ► But Goldfinger, I was like,

01:34:18 ◼   ► "Oh, it really is the best James Bond movie."

01:34:22 ◼   ► And it's got this kind of a silly plot,

01:34:25 ◼   ► but it's not that hard to follow.

01:34:26 ◼   ► But you know what my main thing was?

01:34:28 ◼   ► I was like, "She is going to watch,

01:34:32 ◼   ► "she'll watch up to when he takes off the scuba thing

01:34:34 ◼   ► "and have his tux on."

01:34:35 ◼   ► That's pretty funny.

01:34:36 ◼   ► But I was like, "The pacing of this movie

01:34:38 ◼   ► "by her standards is so glacial,

01:34:40 ◼   ► "there's no way she's gonna watch more than 20 minutes."

01:34:42 ◼   ► And then it became the movie that she demanded to watch.

01:34:45 ◼   ► It was completely perplexing.

01:34:46 ◼   ► She's watching a thing where people are sitting

01:34:47 ◼   ► and drinking mint juleps in Kentucky

01:34:49 ◼   ► and talking about contaminating gold.

01:34:51 ◼   ► I was blown away.

01:34:52 ◼   ► So again, I had no idea that ended up being one

01:34:55 ◼   ► that she really likes.

01:34:55 ◼   ► And also when the laser almost cuts him in the penis,

01:34:57 ◼   ► she turns and goes, "It's gonna cut him in the penis."

01:34:59 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:35:01 ◼   ► - We did it in 2011.

01:35:03 ◼   ► So Jonas was seven when I let him watch.

01:35:05 ◼   ► - Same here with her.

01:35:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, seven.

01:35:07 ◼   ► - Right.

01:35:08 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:35:09 ◼   ► - Seven year.

01:35:10 ◼   ► - I don't think I watched it.

01:35:10 ◼   ► - I watched it when I was seven.

01:35:11 ◼   ► It was on TV once a year.

01:35:13 ◼   ► I think the same way I don't know I mean you know one thing too with the violence

01:35:19 ◼   ► I know and I know a lot of the you know there's what are the big three there's

01:35:23 ◼   ► violence language and sex right I mean that's it's the big three like concerns

01:35:30 ◼   ► you got smoking got sass mouth but I would say violent scariness scariness is

01:35:35 ◼   ► I would say scariness is probably the top issue because I really do think that

01:35:39 ◼   ► that a truly scary movie can upset a kid for days.

01:35:44 ◼   ► I do realize, I absolutely realize that there are some kids,

01:35:49 ◼   ► a lot of times boys, who if they see a movie

01:35:52 ◼   ► where there's a lot of shooting action,

01:35:55 ◼   ► even in a sort of cartoony way like Star Wars,

01:35:58 ◼   ► that it gets the kid all amped up

01:36:00 ◼   ► and then the kid starts jumping around the house

01:36:02 ◼   ► smashing things, right?

01:36:03 ◼   ► And it's like--

01:36:04 ◼   ► - Or like I've shown her bits,

01:36:06 ◼   ► I've shown her YouTube videos of Bruce Lee,

01:36:08 ◼   ► like a best of Bruce Lee or something like that.

01:36:10 ◼   ► And she just wants to kick everything after that.

01:36:13 ◼   ► - Well, or worse, that kids wanna kick other kids

01:36:16 ◼   ► or something like that. - Yeah, right, right.

01:36:17 ◼   ► - Well, Jonas has never ever been like that.

01:36:18 ◼   ► Jonas is a very gentle kid,

01:36:20 ◼   ► and anything that he sees in a movie

01:36:22 ◼   ► does not alter his behavior in the real world.

01:36:26 ◼   ► So I mean, I think it allowed us to be a little permissive

01:36:29 ◼   ► in that way.

01:36:30 ◼   ► But I think most kids are actually pretty good that way.

01:36:32 ◼   ► I think it's kind of rare.

01:36:34 ◼   ► So the violence we've always, I don't know,

01:36:37 ◼   ► a little liberal on? It depends on the violence. It depends on, I mean, you know, the thing is there

01:36:42 ◼   ► are phrases that I would hear people use before I had a child and I would just, I would want to

01:36:47 ◼   ► strangle the person. The phrase, a phrase I used to sneer at "imitative behavior," you know, that's

01:36:53 ◼   ► sometimes in these reviews you'll see, well, it contains, you know, sass mouth and "imitative

01:36:57 ◼   ► behavior," meaning, you know, the three stooges, right? That's a good example. Like, if you watch

01:37:01 ◼   ► enough Three Stooges, you're probably gonna want to hit somebody on the head, you know, Maggie

01:37:04 ◼   ► Simpson with the mallet or whatever but I think I think there's also I have

01:37:09 ◼   ► fun this is really where I don't know I'm out on a limb but I think there are

01:37:13 ◼   ► differences there's different kinds of violence I think stormtroopers getting

01:37:17 ◼   ► bloodlessly shot with comic book violence is really different from

01:37:20 ◼   ► Hellraiser and war or like the like saw I think there is a really big difference

01:37:26 ◼   ► in degree and the personal miss of it so like there are some things and again we

01:37:30 ◼   ► You gotta talk about 70s and 80s movies.

01:37:32 ◼   ► There is so much completely random weird nudity and sex

01:37:36 ◼   ► in 70s and 80s movies, especially 80s movies,

01:37:38 ◼   ► but there's also some extremely personal violence

01:37:41 ◼   ► in those kinds of movies.

01:37:43 ◼   ► So the idea of holding somebody

01:37:44 ◼   ► with a knife to their throat and cutting them,

01:37:47 ◼   ► I think of that as a different kind of animal

01:37:48 ◼   ► than a storm trooper getting shot personally.

01:37:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I do too, or even with just sticking to guns with,

01:37:54 ◼   ► like when Bond, especially in the older ones,

01:37:57 ◼   ► when Bond shoots somebody,

01:37:58 ◼   ► It's practically like shooting a stormtrooper.

01:38:00 ◼   ► I mean, it's like, you know, like the squib,

01:38:03 ◼   ► the squib in the chest was just like a puff of smoke

01:38:05 ◼   ► and the guy just, you know, falls into, you know,

01:38:10 ◼   ► sharks with lasers pit.

01:38:11 ◼   ► Whereas I think the more visceral violence

01:38:18 ◼   ► and the more recent ones, like the Craig ones, you know,

01:38:21 ◼   ► is a little different.

01:38:22 ◼   ► - Oh my gosh.

01:38:24 ◼   ► Oh no, no, no.

01:38:25 ◼   ► I mean, this-- - Well, a lot different.

01:38:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:38:27 ◼   ► I mean, I'm sorry, I didn't mean for some beef jerky.

01:38:29 ◼   ► I thought I could pull it off.

01:38:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:38:33 ◼   ► How's it going?

01:38:35 ◼   ► - What do you think about the actual ratings?

01:38:38 ◼   ► I still think it was a mistake

01:38:40 ◼   ► to introduce the rating PG-13.

01:38:42 ◼   ► - I find it, well, it certainly was easier at one time

01:38:48 ◼   ► to understand, everybody knew what R-rated meant.

01:38:51 ◼   ► R-rated meant you could expect some serious nudity

01:38:55 ◼   ► and simulated sex.

01:38:57 ◼   ► You could expect some shits and fucks,

01:38:59 ◼   ► and you could expect smoking and drugs

01:39:02 ◼   ► and French connection.

01:39:03 ◼   ► That's an R-rated movie.

01:39:04 ◼   ► That was easy to understand.

01:39:06 ◼   ► Now, when, per that article I one-tenth read today,

01:39:09 ◼   ► 1984 comes along, you've got, was it "Temple of Doom?"

01:39:12 ◼   ► No. - Yep.

01:39:13 ◼   ► "Temple of Doom" prompted-- - And "Gremlins"

01:39:15 ◼   ► were two movies that people were just like,

01:39:17 ◼   ► "This is just..."

01:39:18 ◼   ► Now, "Gremlins," I think I could see "Gremlins"

01:39:19 ◼   ► freaking my kid out, personally.

01:39:22 ◼   ► And so it's kind of a weird movie.

01:39:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, it is a weird movie.

01:39:25 ◼   ► We just rewatched it, not recently,

01:39:27 ◼   ► but maybe like last Christmas,

01:39:28 ◼   ► 'cause it's sort of a Christmas movie.

01:39:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, it is. - So like about a year ago.

01:39:32 ◼   ► - But even something like a movie we all love,

01:39:34 ◼   ► it's, take a movie like "Groundhog Day."

01:39:37 ◼   ► If "Groundhog Day" had just the smallest bit of editing,

01:39:42 ◼   ► it would be maybe a canonical family movie.

01:39:45 ◼   ► It's so close to being a, "Ghostbusters."

01:39:48 ◼   ► You know how much nookie there is in "Ghostbusters"?

01:39:51 ◼   ► You got a fake blowjob.

01:39:52 ◼   ► You got, remember that?

01:39:55 ◼   ► Remember that? Where Dan Aykroyd gets the ghost blowjob?

01:39:57 ◼   ► I do.

01:39:58 ◼   ► And it's like, what's this doing in this movie?

01:40:00 ◼   ► This is a movie for kids.

01:40:04 ◼   ► Or just, you know, there's all these movies. This is still true today.

01:40:07 ◼   ► I know with the Marvel movies, they're usually pretty good with the salty language until like the last act.

01:40:12 ◼   ► And that's when all the shits and fucks come out.

01:40:15 ◼   ► It's always like, what is the rule? Isn't there kind of like a standard for how many you're allowed in a PG-13 movie?

01:40:20 ◼   ► Yeah, I think there's some kind of...

01:40:22 ◼   ► And I think they'd like to really load him up in the back too for when the closing action

01:40:25 ◼   ► but I'm just saying like that's the part that's perplexing is there like are you gonna tell

01:40:29 ◼   ► me Ghostbusters is not right for kids oh here we go Back to the Future like there's some

01:40:33 ◼   ► stuff in Back Back to the Future is a great a great family movie that still has some stuff

01:40:37 ◼   ► in it that's a little edgy I mean you know he's in his underwear I guess that's not a

01:40:42 ◼   ► big deal but you know it's straight Oh Home Alone I mean would you Home Alone that's a

01:40:47 ◼   ► kids movie right yeah we've watched him yeah he gets an iron in the face

01:40:50 ◼   ► that's that's worse than Wolverine I don't know I don't know the violence in

01:41:00 ◼   ► Home Alone is kind of weird because it's on the one hand it's like they're kind

01:41:03 ◼   ► of going for that Three Stooges thing and then the other hand there's like

01:41:06 ◼   ► actual acid like walking up the steps in bare feet and you see the nail sticking

01:41:13 ◼   ► out of the step and you're like this is the most horrific thing that I've ever

01:41:16 ◼   ► seen he's because every kid's terrified your parents get you terrified about

01:41:19 ◼   ► I get tetanus from a nail right and he steps on in like a three inch exposed like nail

01:41:25 ◼   ► right it it is

01:41:27 ◼   ► it's an interesting movie because it

01:41:30 ◼   ► It does though bit like his

01:41:33 ◼   ► What's his name Kevin young Kevin's mastery of these two buffoon criminals is?

01:41:39 ◼   ► established cinematically such that you kind of get the sense that the kids gonna come out on top that he's you know,

01:41:47 ◼   ► And that therefore his mastery of these two criminals, the way that he prolongs their stuff,

01:41:52 ◼   ► it really does kind of in a sense, it's a little bit more like torture than self-defense.

01:41:56 ◼   ► [Crosstalk]

01:41:56 ◼   ► Jared: It is, it's like Grand Guignol. It's like he's deliberately making this as awful as he can.

01:42:01 ◼   ► Pete: Yeah, it's less self-defense and more torture. He's kind of enjoying it.

01:42:05 ◼   ► [Laughter]

01:42:06 ◼   ► Jared; Oh man.

01:42:08 ◼   ► Pete; Actually, I think there's a couple of scenes where like one of his, you know,

01:42:11 ◼   ► traps works and he just flat out like high fives himself.

01:42:14 ◼   ► Yes, that's why I gotta pick that up, which does the like her

01:42:18 ◼   ► fist out and pumps it in goes yes. Fuller go easy on the

01:42:23 ◼   ► Pepsi. I love that movie, but I don't know. I'm just saying

01:42:28 ◼   ► okay now how about this? Alright PG-13 so they they I

01:42:31 ◼   ► think it was a mistake cuz I think that the old way was G.

01:42:35 ◼   ► That's a kid's movie. That's for everybody. PG is it's in

01:42:42 ◼   ► and R is for adults and doesn't matter why it doesn't matter if it's my PGP

01:42:47 ◼   ► says it all PG PG says like your mileage may vary like yeah you know it basically

01:42:51 ◼   ► it almost kind of says like you need to like watch this before your kids do

01:42:57 ◼   ► practically or like or like be advised right yeah be advised think about it you

01:43:02 ◼   ► know if your kid is younger and if your kid is over 10 it's probably probably

01:43:06 ◼   ► good yeah you know yeah I don't know but it's again that could to me the hard

01:43:10 ◼   ► part is this sensitive, I sent you a link to this website that I look at a lot and I'm

01:43:16 ◼   ► somewhat ambivalent about it and yet I find it extremely useful. I cannot believe I'm

01:43:19 ◼   ► saying this. Have you seen, did you just look at that link, Kids in Mind? It's a very interesting

01:43:23 ◼   ► idea because they go out and they review these movies, but it's very funny. So the none of

01:43:28 ◼   ► it is they come up with these three numbers, not numerals because there's a 10. But how

01:43:36 ◼   ► How much sex and nudity is there from zero to 10?

01:43:40 ◼   ► How much violence and gore from zero to 10?

01:43:42 ◼   ► How much profanity from zero to 10?

01:43:44 ◼   ► Which I think it's a great, at least a fast glance.

01:43:48 ◼   ► I mean, sometimes I use this to go like,

01:43:49 ◼   ► okay, we're thinking about these two different movies,

01:43:51 ◼   ► like which one of these looks better on the face of it?

01:43:54 ◼   ► And sometimes, you know what I mean?

01:43:54 ◼   ► It's a quick sniff test.

01:43:56 ◼   ► But then did you go in and look at the actual page

01:44:00 ◼   ► at like how it's like porn,

01:44:02 ◼   ► where they describe all the stuff that's actually in it?

01:44:05 ◼   ► No I didn't I'm looking at it now.

01:44:07 ◼   ► Sponge and the way they describe it it's hilarious I want to meet the person who writes this.

01:44:12 ◼   ► Spongebob movie which I absolutely do not want to see.

01:44:15 ◼   ► Sex and nudity you get it too.

01:44:16 ◼   ► We see many human men on the beach with bare chests.

01:44:19 ◼   ► Many women wear skimpy bikinis and reveal cleavage.

01:44:22 ◼   ► A sponge accidentally pulls the shorts partially down from a starfish's waist and we see the

01:44:25 ◼   ► upper buttocks and buttock cleavage.

01:44:28 ◼   ► I've got one here from Mordecai.

01:44:30 ◼   ► Husband and his wife attempt to kiss several times in different scenes, but his moustache makes her gag

01:44:36 ◼   ► And he gags in reflex. Oh my god

01:44:40 ◼   ► Please see the violence and gore category for more details on the gagging

01:44:44 ◼   ► It's but it doesn't it read like something like a Japanese man would buy for porn

01:44:48 ◼   ► American sniper profanity gets a 10 about a hundred and fifteen f-words and its derivatives ten sexual references 32

01:44:56 ◼   ► Gotta logical terms, 20 anatomical terms,

01:44:58 ◼   ► 12 mild obscenities, name calling,

01:45:00 ◼   ► including sunshine, quitter, nuts, old man,

01:45:02 ◼   ► hotbox, arrogant, self-centered, sitting ducks, legend.

01:45:05 ◼   ► - See, why count all--

01:45:07 ◼   ► - Somebody wrote all of those down, Jon.

01:45:09 ◼   ► - Why count all 115 fucks?

01:45:12 ◼   ► Because clearly, I mean, how long is the movie?

01:45:15 ◼   ► Even if it's three hours.

01:45:16 ◼   ► - Right, right, right.

01:45:17 ◼   ► - You're on the border--

01:45:18 ◼   ► - Two hours and 12 minutes.

01:45:20 ◼   ► - So it's roughly one a minute.

01:45:23 ◼   ► - You gotta fuck a minute.

01:45:25 ◼   ► Right, unless there's like a burst at the end. It's, you know, I think you only have to go about

01:45:32 ◼   ► two or three movies or minutes into this movie and you can just check off 10 on a profanity.

01:45:36 ◼   ► Some of these. Oh my god.

01:45:38 ◼   ► All right, it's like this. Like, if you're like the inspector for a hotel,

01:45:42 ◼   ► like you don't have to count the bugs.

01:45:45 ◼   ► Oh, like once you see five rats in the lobby.

01:45:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:45:48 ◼   ► New dealer.

01:45:49 ◼   ► You just check that off. You just check it off. You don't have to count them.

01:45:52 ◼   ► Right.

01:45:52 ◼   ► You don't have to count them.

01:45:54 ◼   ► 1998 film a lot of people a lot of families have enjoyed called the big Lebowski profanity. They give it a 10 about 240 f-words

01:46:01 ◼   ► Many scatological references many anatomical references many mild obscenities here to fix Dinah Kabul

01:46:10 ◼   ► This is great. I I I love this but I know that I'm gonna lose a lot of time on this site

01:46:17 ◼   ► Like oh, I know but the things I can't show it to my wife

01:46:20 ◼   ► Oh, I mean, I'm gonna say can't she's a grown-ass woman

01:46:22 ◼   ► But you know it makes it when you read when you read it in this clinical way

01:46:26 ◼   ► It makes it sound so much worse when they say a starfish is

01:46:30 ◼   ► Swimsuit is pulled down reveals buttocks guys. That's Patrick. It's Patrick's but he's a goddamn cartoon character. It's okay if we see his butt

01:46:38 ◼   ► All right. I looked up fantastic. Mr. Fox which is actually I was just talking to do I just watched it. I love it

01:46:44 ◼   ► I

01:46:46 ◼   ► Kottke called it. Oh, I when I linked to a picture from it and he said it's underrated

01:46:51 ◼   ► I think it's my favorite Wes Anderson

01:46:52 ◼   ► It's it's it's one of my all-time favorite movies let alone one of our families like there's two movies

01:46:58 ◼   ► Yeah, if we can't decide on anything and it comes to blows it's either the Incredibles or mr. Fox. That's it. Yeah, that's

01:47:03 ◼   ► Those are yeah, those are two good ones to leave at the top of the queue. All right, so

01:47:12 ◼   ► For sex and nudity. It's only ranked a one out of ten which meshes with my memory

01:47:17 ◼   ► Here's what we've got. We've got a person in a swimsuit

01:47:21 ◼   ► husband and a wife kissing

01:47:23 ◼   ► Fox kissing hug a teen boy and a teen girl Fox flirt in a couple of scenes

01:47:29 ◼   ► I do remember that you're supposed to be my lab partner. I know it number. No, you're not you're disloyal

01:47:34 ◼   ► Number two a rat refers to a fox's wife as the quote town tart

01:47:41 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:47:43 ◼   ► - Right, yeah, I never--

01:47:46 ◼   ► - A fox wife tells her fox husband that she is pregnant.

01:47:50 ◼   ► So that counts for a one on the sex nudity scale

01:47:53 ◼   ► on pregnant? - While they're in a cage.

01:47:56 ◼   ► Oh man, yeah, but again, you know what this is though?

01:47:59 ◼   ► Okay, so I just gotta say,

01:48:00 ◼   ► this is actually really helpful though,

01:48:02 ◼   ► 'cause like you say, this is the rats in the lobby title.

01:48:04 ◼   ► It's like you can see, like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

01:48:07 ◼   ► no, no, no, no, no, no, Big Lebowski's not gonna be great

01:48:09 ◼   ► to watch with the kids, am I wrong?

01:48:10 ◼   ► No, we're gonna skip this one.

01:48:12 ◼   ► But it is also good that you can go through

01:48:14 ◼   ► and look for like the stuff is like a trigger for your kids.

01:48:17 ◼   ► - 27 exclamation, this is for profanity,

01:48:20 ◼   ► 27 exclamations.

01:48:21 ◼   ► - What the cuss?

01:48:22 ◼   ► - Cuss word.

01:48:23 ◼   ► - Cussing with me?

01:48:24 ◼   ► - What the cuss?

01:48:25 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:48:26 ◼   ► - They count that as a cuss word?

01:48:28 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:48:28 ◼   ► - Cuss is a cuss word?

01:48:30 ◼   ► - Cluster cuss.

01:48:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:48:36 ◼   ► They have a scatological terms glossary.

01:48:40 ◼   ► You got F word derivatives,

01:48:43 ◼   ► which all have little asterisks in them.

01:48:44 ◼   ► Scatological terms, religious profanities, mild obscenities.

01:48:48 ◼   ► Friggin' would be counted as a mild obscenity.

01:48:51 ◼   ► - All right. - Derogatory terms.

01:48:53 ◼   ► Wow.

01:48:54 ◼   ► But you know, I still, I gotta say,

01:48:56 ◼   ► no, no, let me ask you if you remember this.

01:48:57 ◼   ► Do you remember?

01:48:59 ◼   ► I'm gonna say circa mid to late 90s.

01:49:02 ◼   ► Do you remember a service

01:49:04 ◼   ► that was actually kind of like what became Netflix,

01:49:07 ◼   ► where you could get edited movies.

01:49:10 ◼   ► I think it might have been

01:49:11 ◼   ► a somewhat overtly Christian place,

01:49:14 ◼   ► but you could get like a PG movie

01:49:16 ◼   ► that had all of the stuff a certain kind of religious person

01:49:19 ◼   ► would find offensive cut out of it.

01:49:20 ◼   ► Do you remember that at all?

01:49:21 ◼   ► - I do remember hearing about it.

01:49:22 ◼   ► - I remember hearing about it.

01:49:24 ◼   ► I don't know where it went or what it did,

01:49:25 ◼   ► but isn't that, especially now in the digital age,

01:49:27 ◼   ► that's a very interesting idea.

01:49:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause it would be,

01:49:30 ◼   ► you could do it without losing fidelity.

01:49:32 ◼   ► - I mean, you need just some basic metadata

01:49:34 ◼   ► on like, well, you know, you could go in, it'd be so great.

01:49:37 ◼   ► 'Cause if you could go in and say,

01:49:39 ◼   ► you know what, my family is observant

01:49:40 ◼   ► and we don't want any god-dams.

01:49:42 ◼   ► Could you, just with audio, blip out the god-dams,

01:49:46 ◼   ► but leave in the horrific violence or whatever.

01:49:48 ◼   ► Let's say you wanna show your kids Passion of the Christ.

01:49:50 ◼   ► Let's go see what Passion of the Christ looks like.

01:49:53 ◼   ► But you know what I mean?

01:49:53 ◼   ► 'Cause I gotta say, I might find that,

01:49:56 ◼   ► it kinda goes against some of my values

01:50:00 ◼   ► about censorship or something,

01:50:01 ◼   ► but that's what I'm asking for, you know?

01:50:03 ◼   ► There are some movies I am much more likely

01:50:05 ◼   ► to have my daughter watch in a hotel room

01:50:08 ◼   ► because I know they've been edited down.

01:50:10 ◼   ► They've taken out the really cool.

01:50:11 ◼   ► We watched Highlander in a hotel room

01:50:13 ◼   ► and she thought it was a riot.

01:50:14 ◼   ► I would never show that to her at home, unedited.

01:50:17 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:50:18 ◼   ► - I never thought about that, about looking for a hotel edit.

01:50:22 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:50:22 ◼   ► - I love a hotel edit.

01:50:24 ◼   ► - The director's cut and then there's Hilton's cut.

01:50:27 ◼   ► - Wow, this is an unusual statistical spread

01:50:31 ◼   ► on Passion of the Christ.

01:50:32 ◼   ► Sex and nudity, it gets a one.

01:50:34 ◼   ► Profanity, it gets a one.

01:50:36 ◼   ► Violence and gore, full 10.

01:50:39 ◼   ► Oh my goo.

01:50:40 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:50:43 ◼   ► Let her dance, dance, let her dance, dance.

01:50:48 ◼   ► - I've been, now I'm looking for movies

01:50:50 ◼   ► that I have let Jonah see

01:50:51 ◼   ► that they don't even bother to list

01:50:53 ◼   ► because I don't think any-- - It would be so inappropriate.

01:50:55 ◼   ► - Right, The Shining is not listed.

01:50:57 ◼   ► - Oh, come on.

01:50:59 ◼   ► Are you kidding me?

01:51:00 ◼   ► - That I've let him see it?

01:51:01 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:51:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:51:03 ◼   ► - Wow.

01:51:04 ◼   ► - I think that's the only Kubrick movie he's seen.

01:51:05 ◼   ► - You're Batman.

01:51:07 ◼   ► Wow.

01:51:08 ◼   ► She's never seen any Kubrick.

01:51:11 ◼   ► - That was recent though.

01:51:12 ◼   ► That was within the last year.

01:51:13 ◼   ► - Okay, yeah, well.

01:51:14 ◼   ► - I think it was like last year.

01:51:15 ◼   ► - You're gonna say Clockwork Orange

01:51:15 ◼   ► till he's like 12 probably, right?