The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► Renee Richie. John Gruber. From iMore. How long was your iOS 8 review? 21,000 words. What?

00:00:07 ◼   ► Holy shit. Yeah, 200 pictures. I need to be put down. 21,000 words. You know,

00:00:15 ◼   ► and I mean this sincerely, not just because you're the guest on the show, but for years I've been

00:00:24 ◼   ► thinking, "Man, wouldn't it be great if somebody wrote iOS reviews each year the way John Siracusit

00:00:32 ◼   ► does Mac OS X reviews?" And I realized that you do. They're all there. They're there all

00:00:37 ◼   ► the way back to iOS 2. It was just called iPhone OS 2 or something like that. And they

00:00:46 ◼   ► are book-length. 21,000 words. Seriously, that's more closer to a book than an article.

00:00:52 ◼   ► I always feel this need to explain things.

00:00:56 ◼   ► Because Apple gives us WWDC sessions and they give us keynotes, but the keynotes are fast

00:01:00 ◼   ► and the WWDC sessions are super geeky.

00:01:02 ◼   ► I just picture my mom or my dad really wanting to find out what's going on and trying to

00:01:06 ◼   ► write that for them.

00:01:09 ◼   ► That's true.

00:01:10 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:01:15 ◼   ► These OS updates are getting...

00:01:16 ◼   ► Well, they've always been deep.

00:01:18 ◼   ► But like Iowa 7 to Iowa 8, there is so much.

00:01:22 ◼   ► And from a marketing perspective, Apple really just can't cover it in detail.

00:01:26 ◼   ► They can't publish 21,000 words about it.

00:01:30 ◼   ► You know?

00:01:31 ◼   ► And it's like they're moving so effectively year over year that it is – I think it's

00:01:39 ◼   ► truly a challenge to keep up.

00:01:40 ◼   ► You know, I take the Syracuse thing as a huge compliment.

00:01:43 ◼   ► I can't say that I'm anywhere nearly as competent as he is to write these things, but I think

00:01:50 ◼   ► that's exactly it.

00:01:51 ◼   ► They are so, especially something like extensibility and how it works in the container apps and

00:01:56 ◼   ► the host apps and how the security and privacy is handled are really complicated topics.

00:02:01 ◼   ► And I watch those sessions four or five times each because I want to understand them better.

00:02:06 ◼   ► And the writing process is sort of me digesting and figuring out what it all means.

00:02:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:11 ◼   ► I almost mean it the other way.

00:02:12 ◼   ► I do mean it as a compliment.

00:02:14 ◼   ► I mean it as a profound compliment,

00:02:15 ◼   ► but I almost worry that the way that I pose it,

00:02:18 ◼   ► that I say, hey, it took me years to realize this,

00:02:21 ◼   ► that we already had somebody doing it and it's you.

00:02:23 ◼   ► I almost worry that that comes across as an insult

00:02:26 ◼   ► because I say it took me years to realize it.

00:02:28 ◼   ► And I think, and I don't mean it as an insult in any way,

00:02:31 ◼   ► but I do think that maybe the reason

00:02:33 ◼   ► it didn't dawn on me right away

00:02:34 ◼   ► is that your style is so much more understated.

00:02:40 ◼   ► It is a very, you know, you personally are almost out of the picture.

00:02:46 ◼   ► And it's a, I know that this word in terms of journalism is grossly overused,

00:02:53 ◼   ► but it's a much more objective viewpoint.

00:02:55 ◼   ► And with Sirkusa, he's always there, right?

00:03:00 ◼   ► It is, it's Mac OS X reviews very specifically from his perspective.

00:03:09 ◼   ► and as it pertains to his obsessions.

00:03:12 ◼   ► - Well, he's got an amazing authorial voice.

00:03:15 ◼   ► I mean, he talks the way that he writes,

00:03:18 ◼   ► and you always know it's exactly John.

00:03:21 ◼   ► And I have my biases, I try to state my biases up front

00:03:25 ◼   ► and own them, but I think there's just so much to cover

00:03:28 ◼   ► that I have to get out of my own way when I do it.

00:03:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, I totally agree.

00:03:33 ◼   ► So a lot of writing.

00:03:35 ◼   ► It's good because this way I can have someone on the show

00:03:37 ◼   ► who wrote more than I did this week.

00:03:38 ◼   ► Yeah, especially the watch piece and the iPhone review,

00:03:41 ◼   ► those were amazing.

00:03:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, oh, thank you, thank you.

00:03:44 ◼   ► It was both, and I really did write them both

00:03:47 ◼   ► in one waking day from like around one in the afternoon

00:03:52 ◼   ► till six a.m., just one after another.

00:03:55 ◼   ► I had notes all over the place from the eight days prior.

00:04:00 ◼   ► I mean, it's certainly like I didn't start writing

00:04:02 ◼   ► in a vacuum, but all I had were notes and wrote them both.

00:04:06 ◼   ► I think they were both like a little over 4,000 words. So like 8,000 words in one working day, which is

00:04:13 ◼   ► Needless to say unusual

00:04:16 ◼   ► I like the watch one

00:04:16 ◼   ► Especially because we've had people who cover smart watches right about them and we've had people like from Hodaki who do cover watches right about them

00:04:24 ◼   ► but you made a really salient point in your piece that that

00:04:27 ◼   ► these two cultures are gonna clash in the middle and you poked some fun my friend Phil Nickenson yesterday and

00:04:32 ◼   ► rightly so because he was saying that you know the $70 watch band was a hefty price and

00:04:37 ◼   ► People have no idea what's coming when these two industries emerge. I think you see I put it I posted a clarification

00:04:43 ◼   ► Yes today and and the point because I think it was I could I think it was misinterpreted where

00:04:49 ◼   ► I'm not cheerleading or clapping or

00:04:54 ◼   ► Smugly sitting with my arms folded about the idea of multi thousand dollar Apple watches

00:05:01 ◼   ► I'm just saying I think that that's what's coming whether you like it or not

00:05:04 ◼   ► Whether you have a strong opinion on it or not, whether you think that's cool whether you think it's ridiculous or preposterous

00:05:08 ◼   ► But I do think and again like something like a band that costs

00:05:14 ◼   ► $500 if you think that's hefty I would I would agree that's that's you know, I don't think no matter what your income of

00:05:20 ◼   ► Three-four five hundred dollar band just the band is you know hefty hefty is a decent word for that

00:05:26 ◼   ► and

00:05:28 ◼   ► And in my research for the watch piece,

00:05:32 ◼   ► I was looking at things like, what does it cost to get

00:05:34 ◼   ► an actual Rolex stainless steel, no precious metals,

00:05:38 ◼   ► but stainless steel replacement band.

00:05:41 ◼   ► And they sell for at least $2,500,

00:05:43 ◼   ► 'cause I think the ones you can find online

00:05:45 ◼   ► are sort of gray market,

00:05:46 ◼   ► because authorized dealers for Rolex

00:05:50 ◼   ► and other brands like that don't advertise prices.

00:05:52 ◼   ► But let's just say that's in the ballpark.

00:05:56 ◼   ► If you want to think that that's exorbitant,

00:06:00 ◼   ► I'd see exactly what you mean.

00:06:02 ◼   ► I may not necessarily agree,

00:06:04 ◼   ► but I can totally see the reason of somebody.

00:06:07 ◼   ► I could say that's a reasonable position to take

00:06:09 ◼   ► that nobody should buy a watch

00:06:10 ◼   ► that the band alone costs $2,500.

00:06:12 ◼   ► Totally reasonable.

00:06:14 ◼   ► I don't necessarily agree, but it's reasonable.

00:06:16 ◼   ► But $80?

00:06:17 ◼   ► $80 is right there smack in the middle

00:06:19 ◼   ► of the mainstream watch market.

00:06:22 ◼   ► - That's absolutely true.

00:06:23 ◼   ► I have another friend, Kevin, and he collects watches.

00:06:25 ◼   ► He has six or seven years like omegas and Panerais and Rolexes and other brands whose

00:06:30 ◼   ► names escape me.

00:06:32 ◼   ► But when he first heard about the Apple watch he loves technology and he said though he

00:06:36 ◼   ► was not going to buy one unless they had one that was in the thousands of dollars because

00:06:39 ◼   ► it wasn't the kind of watch that he was interested in.

00:06:42 ◼   ► And now when he read your piece specifically he said that it made him even more inclined

00:06:46 ◼   ► to buy it and he's like frankly the more expensive they get the more appealing that is to him

00:06:50 ◼   ► as someone who loves watches.

00:06:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:53 ◼   ► Well anyway, we're only a couple minutes in but here it's impossible for us in one show even by the the ever-growing length of

00:07:01 ◼   ► episodes of this show

00:07:02 ◼   ► there's no way that we can talk about everything and I think the watch is unfortunately going to be meet the

00:07:08 ◼   ► cutting floor because

00:07:11 ◼   ► The phones are new I've had them for a week

00:07:13 ◼   ► iOS 8 is out and is new and you have covered it. I think it's fair to say more extensively than anybody else maybe

00:07:22 ◼   ► Federico would only be the only other person I could think of whose whose depth of coverage of iOS 8 is in the same ballpark

00:07:29 ◼   ► And I think we'll be lucky to I don't think we'll be lucky to finish on time even with just those two things

00:07:35 ◼   ► And we could talk about the event itself, which I didn't really cover and I usually like to do

00:07:41 ◼   ► and maybe that's

00:07:44 ◼   ► Where we can start

00:07:47 ◼   ► Got a bunch of sponsors to run through those

00:07:50 ◼   ► So let me you know, let's take a break before we even get started talking about the event and

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00:10:32 ◼   ► All right, so the event yeah in the Flint Center

00:10:36 ◼   ► Big mystery white box out front for a while

00:10:39 ◼   ► You were there. I think you were sitting two seats down from me right? Where were you next to me now?

00:10:44 ◼   ► I think I'm you Clayton you and Jim

00:10:46 ◼   ► Right me you

00:10:48 ◼   ► Clayton Morris and

00:10:50 ◼   ► Jim Dowell ripple

00:10:52 ◼   ► Now getting invited to these sort of events now

00:10:56 ◼   ► That's how many times have you been to like a keynote with a press badge twice?

00:11:00 ◼   ► It's my second and the first one was ww DC so that you know

00:11:04 ◼   ► It's you know, I hesitate to say new Apple, but it is a an evolved Apple

00:11:11 ◼   ► I would say new implies like a change in direction. I would say it's more of an

00:11:15 ◼   ► Expansion of a direction they were already in. Yeah. No, I think that's absolutely fair

00:11:20 ◼   ► It's it's sort of like some of the constraints have fallen away from them

00:11:24 ◼   ► Yeah, and there you know

00:11:26 ◼   ► Openness is indeed the right word now. I compare this all the way back to

00:11:30 ◼   ► the original iPhone 2007 the original iPhone 2007 review units were only given to I think four people

00:11:38 ◼   ► I think it was Ed Begg at USA Today pogue at the Times Mossberg then at the journal and

00:11:43 ◼   ► Steven Levy at Newsweek that was it

00:11:47 ◼   ► they were the only four people and the entire planet who got a review unit of the the original iPhone and

00:11:54 ◼   ► I would say even for a few years after that the the people who were on the list of

00:12:00 ◼   ► You'll get pre. You know a review unit a week or two weeks before it actually comes out was limited to

00:12:06 ◼   ► Established long established print periodicals even if most people nowadays that even those days were reading them online and

00:12:16 ◼   ► Then slowly they started adding people from online only publications. You know the in gadgets and

00:12:23 ◼   ► people like me and and Dalrymple and stuff like that. Nantec. Yeah, and on and it's you know so

00:12:34 ◼   ► that's why I say and and clearly what they've done is they have greatly expanded the list of

00:12:39 ◼   ► members of the press who are getting invited to these events it's no longer I still say I think

00:12:44 ◼   ► it's still selective I can't even imagine how many requests they get that they turn down but

00:12:50 ◼   ► I think it's opened up in a way and I think in a right way where it's people who should have been I think it's

00:12:54 ◼   ► You know long overdue that you've been you've gotten invited to stuff like this

00:12:58 ◼   ► Daniel Dilgar from

00:13:02 ◼   ► Apple insider

00:13:05 ◼   ► Has I think maybe I don't know if WWDC was the first but it's you know

00:13:09 ◼   ► Certainly within the last year that he started getting ready Caldwell, too

00:13:11 ◼   ► Yep, Serenity

00:13:14 ◼   ► Well surrounded Macworld's gotten invitations for a long time

00:13:17 ◼   ► Yeah, but they it's I'm never sure with Apple whether it's the publication or the journalists that they're inviting

00:13:22 ◼   ► It's both is my feeling

00:13:26 ◼   ► I don't think I think it's sort of the equivalent of asking whether Apple is a hardware software company

00:13:31 ◼   ► You know, it's both because like for example

00:13:35 ◼   ► mg, Siegler when he was full-time at TechCrunch was getting invited and

00:13:42 ◼   ► Then when he left tech crunch, but before he joined Google

00:13:45 ◼   ► He still got invited even when he wasn't a full-time person at Ryan block to when he left in gadget

00:13:50 ◼   ► Yeah, he's another good example. Yeah, perfect example

00:13:54 ◼   ► I

00:13:57 ◼   ► It's clearly though and I can't help

00:14:00 ◼   ► We taught a bunch of us because we had like an hour to burn before the event milling about I mean

00:14:05 ◼   ► It's you know what and that's what we do we sit there and insider

00:14:09 ◼   ► gossip but it's it's almost impossible not to draw a conclusion that it has

00:14:13 ◼   ► something really you know that this expansion of the list and less

00:14:16 ◼   ► exclusivity has something to do with Katie cotton's departure it was also a

00:14:21 ◼   ► much bigger venue than they've used for iPhone events in the past and often you

00:14:25 ◼   ► know at least you know they would cite capacity issues but they made sure they

00:14:28 ◼   ► had room for 2,000 odd people including fashion bloggers and you introduced me

00:14:34 ◼   ► to the gentleman from Hodaki, the watch bloggers were there too. Right. Yeah, you

00:14:39 ◼   ► know, I didn't know Ben Clymer personally, but I'll even know I've been a fan of

00:14:44 ◼   ► his site for a very long time. But I actually thought about introducing

00:14:49 ◼   ► myself to him in advance, just sending an email. I don't, you know, I don't even

00:14:52 ◼   ► know if I could assume that he's, you know, familiar with Daring Fireball, but

00:14:56 ◼   ► maybe, but even if not, I would, you know, take the point that just saying what I

00:14:59 ◼   ► do. And just saying, "Hey, did you get an invitation to this event?" Because I

00:15:02 ◼   ► I thought that would have been a surefire tell

00:15:06 ◼   ► that they were gonna do a watch.

00:15:07 ◼   ► I can't help but think too, the fact that Guy,

00:15:10 ◼   ► and maybe he couldn't say, maybe he got an invitation

00:15:12 ◼   ► that said he can't talk about it,

00:15:13 ◼   ► but I think the fact that Ben Clymer was there,

00:15:16 ◼   ► and presumably other people from the watch world,

00:15:20 ◼   ► is why the fact that they were gonna do a watch

00:15:24 ◼   ► leaked within about the last week.

00:15:26 ◼   ► - Sure.

00:15:27 ◼   ► - 'Cause even just a month prior,

00:15:30 ◼   ► When I suggested that maybe they would do the wearable

00:15:34 ◼   ► at the September event,

00:15:35 ◼   ► even though all the previous rumors

00:15:36 ◼   ► said it would be an October thing,

00:15:39 ◼   ► and it was like a big deal for a day that I'd said that,

00:15:42 ◼   ► everybody was expecting October, right?

00:15:44 ◼   ► And then all of a sudden, about a week before,

00:15:46 ◼   ► it was like, oh yeah, they're definitely gonna do a watch.

00:15:48 ◼   ► And I can't help but think it's because

00:15:49 ◼   ► they started inviting people.

00:15:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, I mean, that joke comment that you made

00:15:54 ◼   ► was terrific.

00:15:55 ◼   ► I mean, that propagated incredibly quickly

00:15:58 ◼   ► across the internet.

00:16:00 ◼   ► Yeah, well, it really was, though.

00:16:02 ◼   ► It wasn't just that anybody told it to me.

00:16:04 ◼   ► It was honestly just the hunch that it would make sense as a single event.

00:16:09 ◼   ► Here's this thing where you can do touch ID on your phone.

00:16:12 ◼   ► Here's this thing to pay.

00:16:15 ◼   ► Because I knew the payments thing was coming.

00:16:16 ◼   ► And it just seemed like, well, why not do it with the watch?

00:16:19 ◼   ► And same thing with all the health tracking.

00:16:21 ◼   ► Whereas I don't see how the watch would fit with an iPad and Yosemite event in October.

00:16:26 ◼   ► Yeah, if it's gonna be a companion product specifically for the iPhone that it makes sense to do in the iPhone event

00:16:31 ◼   ► Yeah, and that's the other thing too. I did see I that I didn't know, you know

00:16:35 ◼   ► Nobody knew in advance that it was going to be a hey you need you need an iPhone to fully use the Apple watch

00:16:41 ◼   ► All right, you know they've said to use it period

00:16:44 ◼   ► even though a lot of its functionality is not dependent on have it being within proximity of the phone, but

00:16:53 ◼   ► Yeah, that makes sense too and it's not surprising

00:16:56 ◼   ► No

00:16:56 ◼   ► and it was it was a really strange morning because you and I and I think we were standing with Jason's tonight on a couple other

00:17:01 ◼   ► People and we noticed that Apple was quasi live blogging their own event, which I've never seen before

00:17:06 ◼   ► That's totally new, you know, and I you know, I've always thought that like you said with the capacity that they cite, you know

00:17:13 ◼   ► Well, we have it here because we can't find a bigger place. I

00:17:17 ◼   ► Don't recall and and Jason snow and I were talking about this and Snell seems to think that they might have done this at some

00:17:23 ◼   ► Point but I can't recall them ever using Moscone West other than as a keynote from Macworld Expo or WWDC

00:17:30 ◼   ► when the dub when you know

00:17:33 ◼   ► Moscone has already been

00:17:36 ◼   ► rented out

00:17:37 ◼   ► That they've never and I think you know and he said he thinks maybe they have but it's hard because if somebody else like in

00:17:44 ◼   ► last week for example Intel had a developers conference at Moscone West so

00:17:48 ◼   ► they couldn't have had they literally could not have done it but I don't think

00:17:51 ◼   ► they've ever done that and that's a huge room potentially other than that they

00:17:56 ◼   ► I've in all the years I've been going to these things I've never seen one that

00:17:59 ◼   ► was in an event a venue as large as the Flint Sun and it's historic for Apple

00:18:03 ◼   ► too because they made a point of pointing out this is where the Mac and

00:18:06 ◼   ► the iMac are introduced right the biggest surprise to me and the sign that

00:18:14 ◼   ► Apple PR has you know truly evolved and changed what was

00:18:18 ◼   ► That Brian Lamb was invited. Yeah now at the great great wire cutter site

00:18:24 ◼   ► And I think it's great that he did but the reason that's remarkable

00:18:28 ◼   ► Is that he's the guy who was running gizmodo back when they had their hands on the stolen iPhone from the the bar

00:18:36 ◼   ► Where the Apple engineer had left it and he's the guy who answered the phone when Steve Jobs

00:18:41 ◼   ► Personally called and said give me back my phone and said no, you know

00:18:45 ◼   ► We want something from you before we give it back to you

00:18:47 ◼   ► The fact that he's now off the shit list and on the invitation list is remarkable

00:18:53 ◼   ► I even with all of the expansion of it even with the return of gizmodo

00:18:57 ◼   ► Because everybody who was there back then has gone from gizmodo now they've you know, the Gawker sites go through, you know employees, you know like

00:19:07 ◼   ► Butter churning. Yeah, even if you believe the penalty box is expired on gizmodo

00:19:11 ◼   ► You never quite sure if the ban on that specific player has been lifted exactly

00:19:15 ◼   ► You know, and I think it's right. I think you know forgive and forget, you know

00:19:19 ◼   ► Brian lamb is doing very different work and much better work these days and why not but I just no way I

00:19:25 ◼   ► Cannot believe that that would have happened if Katie was still there again

00:19:28 ◼   ► It feels sort of like a huge constraint that had been on them has been lifted and they can do a lot of the things

00:19:34 ◼   ► that they probably thought would have been cool and fun a long time ago, like the countdown timer

00:19:37 ◼   ► on apple.com. Yeah, totally. Yeah, and the live blog. Yes. I half suspected Anand would pull out

00:19:43 ◼   ► a computer and start live blogging it right from the floor with us. Did you see him? No,

00:19:47 ◼   ► he wasn't there apparently. Oh, I didn't know that. I looked around for him, but it was so

00:19:51 ◼   ► many people that I'm surprised I found as many people, friends that I knew before the event as

00:19:57 ◼   ► I did. It was so crazy. I took a panoramic picture and a couple people comment and I twittered it and

00:20:03 ◼   ► And a couple people said it looks like one of the Disney World theme parks in the morning

00:20:09 ◼   ► before they open the gates, when thousands of people show up to try to get on the rides

00:20:14 ◼   ► first.

00:20:15 ◼   ► And it really did.

00:20:18 ◼   ► Some people were saying, and Apple's a little cagey, I think, about stuff like this, is

00:20:21 ◼   ► like, how many people actually were there?

00:20:24 ◼   ► I don't think they...

00:20:25 ◼   ► They don't like to answer stuff like that.

00:20:26 ◼   ► But somebody said that they had a capacity twice that of Yerba Buena.

00:20:30 ◼   ► I don't see how that's possible, though.

00:20:32 ◼   ► It has to be more than twice I think because I've been to your babuena events many times and I've never seen

00:20:37 ◼   ► Half that many people there. I've you know, it seems like a third or even fewer someone mentioned it sees between

00:20:43 ◼   ► 2,000 and 2,400 and I saw later some people that I know some friends had were there

00:20:48 ◼   ► And they tweeted that they were there and I did not see them at all throughout the entire course of the event

00:20:53 ◼   ► There's so many yeah

00:20:55 ◼   ► The other thing that I thought too is there were a lot more Apple people there too even with this

00:21:00 ◼   ► expansion in the list of press who were there to cover it which is definitely

00:21:04 ◼   ► True they invited way more Apple people to be there like when at the end when Tim Cook said hey everybody who's it from Apple

00:21:11 ◼   ► Please do me a favor stand up right now

00:21:13 ◼   ► Seem like half the crowd stood up

00:21:15 ◼   ► Yeah

00:21:15 ◼   ► Apparently they had an internal lottery in some of the departments because they couldn't get everybody so you'd get a chance to go and a

00:21:20 ◼   ► Bunch of people got picked. It was really nice to see

00:21:22 ◼   ► So, you know after you know, it's a almost a week and a half now as we record this

00:21:29 ◼   ► Looking back on how do you what are your thoughts on the event as a whole?

00:21:32 ◼   ► I think the event I have sort of two trains of thought about it one is that I think

00:21:36 ◼   ► The stuff itself was really really interesting the stuff they showed off the iPhones

00:21:41 ◼   ► It was similar to when they finally went from AT&T to Verizon

00:21:45 ◼   ► They finally went from a 4-inch to larger iPhones and you can argue whether they should have done that earlier

00:21:50 ◼   ► I think they had really good timing

00:21:51 ◼   ► but also it wasn't quite

00:21:53 ◼   ► like the iPad or the iPhone event and I think specifically the iPad event because Steve Jobs was so careful to say

00:21:59 ◼   ► This is your phone. This is your laptop

00:22:02 ◼   ► This is the tablet and this is what it does better than both those things and this is the reason it has to exist

00:22:07 ◼   ► And with the iPhone it was you know

00:22:09 ◼   ► these are the old keyboards and this is why they're wrong and the old input methods and technologies and why they're wrong and

00:22:15 ◼   ► for the phones and the

00:22:17 ◼   ► Watch we got a list of really amazing features, but there was never that one moment where?

00:22:23 ◼   ► Tim Cook or anybody at Apple said this is this is the the reason this has to

00:22:28 ◼   ► exist for the iPhone 6 yeah or the iPhone 6 or the iWatch I mean I think it

00:22:33 ◼   ► was clear like we can extrapolate it like the iWatch is clearly

00:22:36 ◼   ► convenience and the iPhone 6 is clearly a higher class of software eventually but

00:22:41 ◼   ► it was never stated outright on a single slide or in a single sort of slogan I

00:22:44 ◼   ► think for two very different reasons though I think with the iPhones it's

00:22:50 ◼   ► they're not hard for anybody who's used an iPhone to get their heads around the

00:22:56 ◼   ► screen is either bigger or way bigger and the camera is better and they get

00:23:03 ◼   ► better battery life and they're thinner and sleeker and right you could pretty

00:23:07 ◼   ► much stop right there I you know it it's you know I don't think I wasted any

00:23:15 ◼   ► words in my review but I think that a very short overview can get across 85% of what

00:23:21 ◼   ► most people would want to know about these phones. The iPhone 6 is bigger, gets a little

00:23:26 ◼   ► bit better battery life. The screen is nicely improved in terms of viewing angles and color

00:23:32 ◼   ► and stuff like that. The camera is better. That's it. You can get it in higher storage

00:23:39 ◼   ► capacities. And then the iPhone 6 Plus, it's way bigger. If you want like a new style device

00:23:45 ◼   ► that's like a two-handed iPhone size, more like a mini tablet, and you're going to get

00:23:51 ◼   ► a couple more hours of battery life per day because the battery is so humongous, there's

00:23:58 ◼   ► a new class iPhone for you. And stop right there, and I think that covers what it means

00:24:02 ◼   ► for 85% of the people.

00:24:04 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree completely. I think my only reservation is that you're never sure, we

00:24:09 ◼   ► all live in bubbles of various sizes and I have a Nexus 5 and I have a Lumia 1020 and

00:24:14 ◼   ► I have, I've used Galaxy Notes and Galaxy Megas and things like that, the big phones,

00:24:19 ◼   ► so I'm a little bit familiar with them. But I think a lot of people who've only bought

00:24:22 ◼   ► iPhones are only familiar with the 3.5 and 4-inch size and to hear why Apple didn't continue

00:24:29 ◼   ► that like why they went to the bigger screen. I think you know there's a productivity argument

00:24:35 ◼   ► to be made for the iPhone 6 Plus but even the iPhone 6 there's a there's a really brief statement

00:24:41 ◼   ► about we're gonna give you more we're gonna give you a bigger window into the internet and into

00:24:46 ◼   ► apps it would have just eased a little bit of the stress that people had when oh my you know instead

00:24:50 ◼   ► of saying oh my god they abandoned the 4-inch it'd be oh wow this is so much more that I can do now

00:24:54 ◼   ► with 4.7. Yeah and I've been thinking about that you know maybe even close to

00:25:00 ◼   ► a year ever since it became so strongly rumored that they were gonna go to two

00:25:05 ◼   ► sizes 4.7 and 5.5 and not have a next generation model at the 4 inch size.

00:25:13 ◼   ► I've been thinking for a long time you know the whole the whole year well I

00:25:17 ◼   ► like 4.0 inches and 4.0 inches is the size of the most best-selling the best

00:25:27 ◼   ► selling most profitable phone in the world because that's what the iPhone 5s

00:25:32 ◼   ► was yeah you know and the iPhone 5c was like I don't know like third like the

00:25:37 ◼   ► third best-selling and most profitable smartphone in the world like three two

00:25:41 ◼   ► out of the top three selling phones in the world were 4.0 inches last year and

00:25:48 ◼   ► they've now they've just let and you know one I asked about this and one of

00:25:52 ◼   ► the things I was told was well we haven't left her behind we still have

00:25:54 ◼   ► those phones they're just moved down the line and including the fact that you can

00:25:58 ◼   ► buy the a new 5s at 32 gigabytes not just at 16 for $49 more it's a hundred

00:26:06 ◼   ► and forty nine dollars on contract and that's not entirely new either because

00:26:10 ◼   ► the 5c when it was as a brand new device last year it came in 16 and 32 gigabyte sizes too

00:26:17 ◼   ► but i feel like that's a little bit more of a it just seems to me like a little bit more of a hedge

00:26:23 ◼   ► now yeah it's an escape hatch if you're not quite ready to grow with apple to the largest

00:26:27 ◼   ► screen sizes yet right so i don't know i wonder if they're gonna wait and look at what people

00:26:32 ◼   ► buy and what how things go or what they're thinking like it wouldn't totally i i would

00:26:38 ◼   ► expect that next year we're just gonna get s I don't know if they'll use an s

00:26:43 ◼   ► but equivalent iPhone 6s and iPhone 6s plus and the two new phones will be

00:26:49 ◼   ► these sizes I don't expect there to be you know them to go back to 4.0 inches

00:26:57 ◼   ► it sounds to me like they've said here's the at this point with the technology

00:27:01 ◼   ► where technologies evolved where prices have evolved on screens what's the best

00:27:05 ◼   ► sweet spot to hit the most people with the least amount of choice, these are the two

00:27:10 ◼   ► sizes they've decided on, I think. But I wouldn't be shocked if they have a 4.0, call it the

00:27:17 ◼   ► iPhone 6 mini. And it's this rounded form factor, but at a four inch size. It wouldn't

00:27:26 ◼   ► shock me, but I don't expect it.

00:27:29 ◼   ► No, and I think it's interesting, and you had a good post before the event on what you

00:27:34 ◼   ► thought the screen sizes would be and why.

00:27:36 ◼   ► And it reminded me the first time I read it of when Steve Jobs was talking about the difference

00:27:40 ◼   ► between the iPad and Android tablets when they were just basically expanding the interface.

00:27:46 ◼   ► And he was saying that with the iPad and the split view controller it allowed a higher

00:27:50 ◼   ► class of software.

00:27:52 ◼   ► And when I saw the iPhone 6 Plus turn sideways and you get that split view controller it

00:27:57 ◼   ► reminded me of the same thing.

00:27:58 ◼   ► These bigger sizes, Apple is only doing it with the iPhone 6 Plus but developers can

00:28:03 ◼   ► do it with any size that they want now with the new adaptive UI that it will allow for

00:28:07 ◼   ► a higher class of software but that sort of necessitates a larger screen especially for

00:28:12 ◼   ► anybody who doesn't have really good really young eyes.

00:28:15 ◼   ► Yeah well I don't think there's no way that that split view would work on the 4.0 in size.

00:28:22 ◼   ► They show it in one in that WWDC session in a demo app and it does look but it's that

00:28:27 ◼   ► 16.9 aspect ratio that is wasteful in some interfaces on the iPhone in landscape mode

00:28:33 ◼   ► And the split screen just seems to fix that one problem.

00:28:35 ◼   ► Yeah, especially with the keyboard up.

00:28:38 ◼   ► Because there's a minimum height to a usable keyboard.

00:28:41 ◼   ► And on the 4.0 inch size, when you're horizontal, it's at least half the screen.

00:28:46 ◼   ► Whereas on the two new phones, it's not, you know, it leaves a lot more room above it.

00:28:52 ◼   ► Because they don't, the keyboard isn't the same relative size.

00:28:54 ◼   ► It's more like the same physical height.

00:28:57 ◼   ► Yeah, and it is that compromise that I think, you know, you spoke about earlier where it

00:29:02 ◼   ► is bigger to carry around but the iPhone 6 Plus specifically you turn around and get

00:29:07 ◼   ► that iPad style layout you are gaining productivity out of that compromise

00:29:11 ◼   ► yeah I'm looking at the 6 Plus in my hands right now and with the keyboard up

00:29:17 ◼   ► in landscape mode horizontal mode it's a little bit more than a third but it's

00:29:22 ◼   ► way less than half there's way more usable screen real estate above the

00:29:27 ◼   ► keyboard on this. The iPhone 5 and 5s maybe really claustrophobic with

00:29:32 ◼   ► keyboard up in landscape mode. Yeah, I you know and that might be the main reason

00:29:36 ◼   ► why I say I never use my iPhone in landscape other than what things were

00:29:41 ◼   ► you know like videos or watching videos or playing games. Likewise. The only thing

00:29:47 ◼   ► I ever ever do in landscape is sometimes with a web page that doesn't really even

00:29:52 ◼   ► with double tap to zoom the text is too small I'll turn it sideways to be able

00:29:56 ◼   ► to read it and that's it. I can't think of anything else that I do in landscape.

00:30:01 ◼   ► No, I'm exactly the same way which is why that that 16.9

00:30:05 ◼   ► Aspect ratio is so good for those few specific things, but the top the other portrait is much better for the rest

00:30:12 ◼   ► Yeah

00:30:12 ◼   ► And I think it shows for example in Vesper like Vesper doesn't support landscape because I think Dave and Brent feel the same way

00:30:19 ◼   ► And I think that's come to bite us on the ass now because I on these bigger phones

00:30:25 ◼   ► it really feels weird that an app doesn't support landscape and maybe it's just because as

00:30:30 ◼   ► reviewing the phones over the past week I was doing it a lot just for the sake of seeing what it's like but

00:30:35 ◼   ► It no longer feels silly or some kind of concession to people with particularly

00:30:40 ◼   ► Big thumbs or something like that. It feels like it's a first-class part of the iPhone interface

00:30:47 ◼   ► Yeah, well a big hint to that

00:30:48 ◼   ► I think you know the original iPhone didn't even let

00:30:50 ◼   ► Let almost nothing go into landscape what I think Safari did in the video app almost nothing

00:30:54 ◼   ► But now even the home screen does on the iPhone 6 plus. I think that's a big hint for people

00:30:59 ◼   ► Yeah, I like and it's that's kind of neat too. I like it

00:31:02 ◼   ► And I like the way that the the doc is always on the right

00:31:05 ◼   ► Yeah as somebody who on the Mac has always always worn his dock on the right

00:31:08 ◼   ► It feels very natural the iPad moves it around with you, but it feels very natural on where's your dock on your Mac?

00:31:14 ◼   ► My doc on my Mac is on the left hand side, but hidden most of the time

00:31:18 ◼   ► Left I know Renee. All right this I'm gonna get a new guest. I'll fix it

00:31:22 ◼   ► Now you're off. You're off the show left hand doc. Oh, it's gross

00:31:28 ◼   ► Now, I don't know. I have always been a right-hand doc person and I'm glad that's where they put it on that phone

00:31:33 ◼   ► I actually I have it on one of my Macs at the bottom and one of it is on the left

00:31:36 ◼   ► Yeah bottom is acceptable

00:31:38 ◼   ► Although I still think it's weird

00:31:40 ◼   ► The left is just because I forget which one it is

00:31:42 ◼   ► But one of them has that really wide screen and it just seemed to I want more vertical pixel

00:31:46 ◼   ► So I got it off the bottom and I just stuck it on the left

00:31:48 ◼   ► my problem with doc on the bottom has always been that all every Mac screen is

00:31:54 ◼   ► Horizontal and so vertical real estate is always at more of a premium than horizontal real estate

00:32:00 ◼   ► So why not put it on the side? But anyway, that's neither here

00:32:02 ◼   ► Anyway back to the event, I think if they needed to if the watch let's say that come August 1st

00:32:12 ◼   ► When they really needed to say, okay, what are we gonna do next month?

00:32:16 ◼   ► All right, and if they had said, you know what the watch just isn't ready even for a pre announcement

00:32:22 ◼   ► It's not you know, we got to scrap it

00:32:24 ◼   ► They could have had an event similar to previous iPhone events and then you know include Apple pay

00:32:32 ◼   ► Just the iPhones and Apple pay and it would have been fine. Yeah, it would have I think it would have been in the smaller venue

00:32:38 ◼   ► I don't think they would have taken the Flint Center and

00:32:40 ◼   ► I think Schiller could have easily gone

00:32:43 ◼   ► 60 minutes instead of 30 minutes talking about features on the phones and what's improved. Yeah, and they could he would Craig recapitulate

00:32:51 ◼   ► WWDC's he's done several years in a row. Yeah, I don't think so though because I think that's waiting

00:32:56 ◼   ► I think we will see that in in

00:32:58 ◼   ► October but I feel like that would have been harder to do because at WWDC they can talk about you know

00:33:04 ◼   ► Look, all this stuff is all beta right the the handoff and

00:33:08 ◼   ► all the other

00:33:11 ◼   ► What's it called the the catch-all phrase for all of these not extensibility that it starts with the C

00:33:18 ◼   ► continuity continuity all these continuity features I don't think that

00:33:23 ◼   ► they could do it in a September event where iOS is no longer beta but Yosemite

00:33:28 ◼   ► yeah very true I think it had I think that the Federiki stuff you know demoing

00:33:32 ◼   ► all the continuity stuff has got to wait for October I think it could have just

00:33:36 ◼   ► been you know Shiller doing stuff on the phone like he has in past years and

00:33:39 ◼   ► maybe you know add add Tim Cook's usual preamble with the sort of state of the

00:33:44 ◼   ► company could have had a 90-minute event with you know maybe 50 minutes of iPhone

00:33:50 ◼   ► 6 and you know the the rest of it Apple pay and it would have been fine that's

00:33:55 ◼   ► very true because in previous years cook would he'd go over all the results he'd

00:33:58 ◼   ► make fun of Android a little bit he do each show an Apple store opening with a

00:34:02 ◼   ► nice video and this year he said and you know I think it's worth pointing out you

00:34:06 ◼   ► know Apple's doing fine and then they got right into the iPhone yeah and sure

00:34:10 ◼   ► I mean he was flying I thought I mean I thought it you know

00:34:14 ◼   ► I don't wouldn't say he was rushed and he was polished, but that was a really really concise

00:34:18 ◼   ► I mean it was I think it measured almost exactly 30 minutes, and that's really short

00:34:23 ◼   ► And it's almost remarkable how soon they got into it

00:34:26 ◼   ► it was only like seven minutes into the thing and all of us including three minutes of it for a

00:34:30 ◼   ► purely promotional video at the beginning

00:34:33 ◼   ► And it was like here here they are here's what you know, here's what they here's what they look like

00:34:39 ◼   ► like here's what they do here's what's new and back to Tim and he was off the

00:34:44 ◼   ► stage and you you remarked on it at the time but it was impeccable it was on the

00:34:47 ◼   ► 30 minutes they finished on the two hour mark it was perfect yeah it was a very

00:34:51 ◼   ► tight event I mean I cuz you know two hours is to them and I think rightly so

00:34:56 ◼   ► it's like the upper limit and if they do a rehearsal and it's two hours and ten

00:35:00 ◼   ► minutes no matter how uncuttable it seems ten minutes of stuff is gonna get

00:35:04 ◼   ► cut yeah absolutely let's take a second break and and we'll get back to this and

00:35:13 ◼   ► I guess maybe interrupt the idea of going through the show and talk a little

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00:38:40 ◼   ► good friends of the show so did you order an iPhone six I did I ordered my

00:38:45 ◼   ► phone six plus you got a six plus so what made you go plus I sort of want to

00:38:50 ◼   ► I want to try it because it is so new and then there have been big phones on

00:38:54 ◼   ► the market before but Apple's take on it I find really interesting I love the

00:38:58 ◼   ► idea of the split view controller in landscape mode and I like the idea of

00:39:01 ◼   ► the longer battery because you know especially when we go to conferences or

00:39:04 ◼   ► events. I'm roaming most of the time and the radio is just screaming and draining

00:39:08 ◼   ► the battery. That and the optical image stabilization, I don't know how big a

00:39:12 ◼   ► deal that'll be on the camera but I'm really I really interested in trying it

00:39:15 ◼   ► out. Yeah Matthew Panzarinos examples were pretty good I thought at that. Yeah.

00:39:19 ◼   ► You know and it looks like you get an extra stop or two and it you know can

00:39:25 ◼   ► help you shoot at a significantly lower ISO speed even in low light. Honestly

00:39:31 ◼   ► having spent a week with him I wasn't even tempted by I guess I had to order I

00:39:35 ◼   ► ordered on Friday night so I'd only been or Thursday night so I'd only had it for

00:39:39 ◼   ► three three days at that point but there was no no doubt in my mind that I wanted

00:39:43 ◼   ► a regular iPhone 6 I think that's the safe not the safe choice is the wrong

00:39:47 ◼   ► word I think that that is the right choice for most people I think it looks

00:39:51 ◼   ► like a lot of people are going for the 6 plus and I'm not sure whether that's

00:39:54 ◼   ► because they really want a 5.5 inch phone or because they just assume that

00:39:59 ◼   ► they just feel like every time Apple puts out a new phone, they're going to get the

00:40:02 ◼   ► most expensive one or what they assume is the flagship phone.

00:40:06 ◼   ► Dave: Yeah. It's one of those things. Apple reveals more than most companies, but there's

00:40:10 ◼   ► no way that I expect them to reveal the split between the 6 and the 6 Plus because I think

00:40:15 ◼   ► that's highly competitive data. But I would be fascinated to know it. I would also be

00:40:21 ◼   ► fascinated to know how it changes over time because my hunch is that the early adopter

00:40:27 ◼   ► crowd who does things like pre-order one of these before they've ever seen one in the

00:40:34 ◼   ► flesh.

00:40:35 ◼   ► Which I would be doing if I had even if I hadn't had the review units already.

00:40:39 ◼   ► I would have been pre-ordering anyway.

00:40:42 ◼   ► But let's face it that's sort of a crazy thing to do.

00:40:45 ◼   ► Normal people don't go and buy you know six, seven, eight hundred, nine hundred dollar

00:40:51 ◼   ► devices that they haven't even put in their hands yet.

00:40:56 ◼   ► I think that crowd skews towards the bigger size because they're it's it's I don't know

00:41:01 ◼   ► It's just more nerdy that they you know, they do more work on their phone. It's a little bit less of a

00:41:07 ◼   ► Passive device and more of an active device. Yeah

00:41:10 ◼   ► Well, there seems to be two groups of people and one is people who can only have one device and this is a group

00:41:15 ◼   ► That's been really popular in Southeast Asia

00:41:17 ◼   ► And those are essentially lower cost large phones because they have to have a phone

00:41:23 ◼   ► They just they need it to basically to live and to communicate

00:41:26 ◼   ► But they want as big a screen size as possible and then you have people in North America who are they just want something

00:41:32 ◼   ► That's a small tablet that they can carry around and according to people like Ben Beharin

00:41:36 ◼   ► The large size phones like the galaxy note size phones have never sold well in North America previously

00:41:41 ◼   ► so it'll be interesting to see if that's because there's no Apple phone in that category or if it's really because that category only appeals to

00:41:47 ◼   ► a niche market in the industry. Yeah, I

00:41:51 ◼   ► I didn't mention this in my review. It's in my notes.

00:41:54 ◼   ► And I left it out because it seemed, you know, it was long enough and it's, you know, sometimes you got to start cutting stuff.

00:42:02 ◼   ► But I think it is going to severely cannibalize sales of the iPad Mini.

00:42:11 ◼   ► And I say this as somebody who has used the iPad Mini as my personal, my only personal iPad ever since it came out two years ago.

00:42:20 ◼   ► I even went with the mini that first year when it was not retina and I'd already gotten used to the retina display and

00:42:27 ◼   ► You know which was a huge trade-off, but I like that size for what I use an iPad for primarily which is okay

00:42:36 ◼   ► I'm done working for the day in my office here at home now

00:42:39 ◼   ► I'm downstairs and I still want to read some stuff. You know, I still want to you know do some stuff

00:42:46 ◼   ► But I'm just sitting around the house on the couch or in an armchair or something like that and I want to use an iPad

00:42:51 ◼   ► I love the mini for that. I

00:42:53 ◼   ► but I think though overall it is

00:42:56 ◼   ► That this device is too close to the mini and if you if you have it the mini just seems pointless

00:43:03 ◼   ► I think that's very true

00:43:05 ◼   ► I think what else it'll take a while to happen because I think the iPhone

00:43:08 ◼   ► 6 plus is gonna be supply constrained or at least you'll have much higher constraint than though it already

00:43:13 ◼   ► Yeah right now if you order today

00:43:15 ◼   ► It's already at least I didn't even check today. But yesterday I checked and it that I was Wednesday the 17th

00:43:20 ◼   ► it was already quoting three to four weeks and

00:43:24 ◼   ► iPhone 6 was only quoting three to four days. Yeah

00:43:29 ◼   ► So I think it'll take a while before

00:43:32 ◼   ► There's widespread adoption and people who get it not all of them may like it

00:43:35 ◼   ► Some of them might decide to go to the smaller one

00:43:37 ◼   ► But what I'm most curious about is whether it just simply cannibalizes the iPad mini and Apple said before they'd rather

00:43:43 ◼   ► cannibalize their own stuff than somebody else or if people who previously have an iPhone

00:43:48 ◼   ► 5 or 5s and an iPad mini now move to an iPhone 6s and an iPad Air or maybe theoretically

00:43:56 ◼   ► an iPad Pro one day.

00:43:57 ◼   ► If they go from small small to big big instead of getting nothing on the tablet side.

00:44:03 ◼   ► I think it's really going to put a dent in the iPad mini sales and I think it might put

00:44:07 ◼   ► a dent in iPad sales period at least among people who choose the 6 Plus.

00:44:12 ◼   ► It, to me, really is--

00:44:13 ◼   ► I forget exactly how I put it in my review, but almost as much.

00:44:21 ◼   ► Maybe not quite, but almost as much.

00:44:23 ◼   ► Like 40% more like an iPad Nano, a hypothetical iPad Nano,

00:44:30 ◼   ► than it is an iPhone Plus.

00:44:34 ◼   ► It really, to me, feels like a new class of device.

00:44:41 ◼   ► more than just a big iPhone, really does.

00:44:43 ◼   ► And a big part of that is the horizontal stuff,

00:44:47 ◼   ► you know, the two column layouts.

00:44:48 ◼   ► But even in the portrait landscape, vertical landscape,

00:44:53 ◼   ► it just feels in hand, it really to me feels like something

00:44:56 ◼   ► you have to use with two hands for the most part,

00:44:59 ◼   ► which to me is what makes it

00:45:00 ◼   ► a different class device than an iPhone.

00:45:04 ◼   ► - It's almost the inverse of what happened

00:45:06 ◼   ► when the iPad mini launched,

00:45:07 ◼   ► because people were used to having a two-handed

00:45:10 ◼   ► iPad experience and the iPhone the iPad mini was almost a hand and a half and now people are so used to using the one

00:45:16 ◼   ► Handed iPhone the iPhone plus iPhone 6 plus is to you know hand and a half to two-handed device

00:45:21 ◼   ► The other thing that's curious though

00:45:24 ◼   ► And I think would be like it's almost like a no-brainer and you don't even you know all the times that they've cannibalized

00:45:30 ◼   ► their own products, you know with the

00:45:33 ◼   ► iPod nano

00:45:36 ◼   ► Just wiping out the iPod iPod mini even though the mini was the single most popular consumer electronics product in the world at the time

00:45:43 ◼   ► the iPhone having a full unabashed

00:45:47 ◼   ► iPod app that

00:45:50 ◼   ► Eliminated the need to carry a standalone iPod right like the traditional tech company way

00:45:55 ◼   ► if you had a

00:45:57 ◼   ► popular franchise like iPod would have been to like make you tether your iPod to your phone somehow or

00:46:03 ◼   ► something like that or like the rocker phone like limit the number just

00:46:07 ◼   ► artificially limit the number of songs you can put on your iPhone or something

00:46:10 ◼   ► like that they didn't do anything like that they were like hey it's the bet

00:46:13 ◼   ► Steve Jobs called it the best iPod we've ever made fine it scary because it was

00:46:20 ◼   ► you know a hugely popular thing in this case I don't think they have any reason

00:46:23 ◼   ► to fear it because these things don't don't think about that on contract

00:46:26 ◼   ► pricing which is not the true price they're their true price is like three

00:46:32 ◼   ► times higher than the price of an iPad mini right you get iPad mini starting at

00:46:37 ◼   ► $299 right yeah it's one of these things off contract unlocked are you know $800

00:46:44 ◼   ► devices so if people stop buying iPad minis for three or four hundred dollars

00:46:50 ◼   ► so they can buy $900 iPhone six pluses at you know that's sort of like anybody

00:46:55 ◼   ► can see the the business sense of that that that is great for Apple because

00:46:58 ◼   ► they move from a super low margin product to us do a very good margin

00:47:02 ◼   ► product. But one of the things that's always impressed me about Apple as a

00:47:04 ◼   ► company is that they've never mistaken their products for their businesses and

00:47:09 ◼   ► we see this in technology so often like Microsoft with Windows everywhere where

00:47:13 ◼   ► they think that they make Windows and they really don't. Apple never made the

00:47:17 ◼   ► mistake that they made iPods you know or they made an iPod mini. They knew that

00:47:21 ◼   ► they made personal music devices and would evolve those and those became the

00:47:24 ◼   ► iPhone and now they are not an iPad company they'll kill the iPad if they

00:47:29 ◼   ► have a better idea. They just make these great devices that you can carry around. Whatever

00:47:33 ◼   ► the next version of that, they are fearless in moving to it as quickly as possible because

00:47:37 ◼   ► they'd rather do it before somebody else does. They do get rid of some profits. They leave

00:47:42 ◼   ► money on the table by not dragging out every single nickel out of every single product.

00:47:46 ◼   ► I think when you see how long they've been making really good amounts of money that ultimately

00:47:51 ◼   ► is to everybody's benefit.

00:47:52 ◼   ► A good question that I got asked after my review hit and people's you know

00:47:57 ◼   ► Realize I had both phones and they could ask me questions didn't occur to me before at all because I don't use it personally

00:48:02 ◼   ► But I got asked by a couple of people on Twitter

00:48:05 ◼   ► Whether the iPhone 6 plus in particular or either of the new ones works with the camera connection kit

00:48:13 ◼   ► which is the little lightning thing you plug in and then you can plug an SD card into an iPad and

00:48:20 ◼   ► import photos you can take photos with a regular camera standalone camera take the SD card use the

00:48:26 ◼   ► camera connection kit and you instead of putting them on a Mac you can put them on an iPad and it's

00:48:30 ◼   ► always been an iPad only peripheral didn't even occur to me to try it I did and it's exactly

00:48:36 ◼   ► nothing has changed when as soon as you plug the lightning adapter into the either of the new

00:48:41 ◼   ► iPhones it says this this peripheral or whatever it's called is not supported on this device I

00:48:48 ◼   ► I wonder though if that's an oversight because it seems to me like I never quite understood

00:48:55 ◼   ► why camera connection kit didn't work with an iPhone. It's never been clear to me technically

00:49:00 ◼   ► why that's the case. If anything, iPhones now have just as much storage as iPads. Who

00:49:09 ◼   ► knows? Maybe they'll double the iPads again. But storage shouldn't be the limiting factor.

00:49:13 ◼   ► It should be up to you if you have a 32 or 64 gigabytes of storage what you use it for.

00:49:18 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that's absolutely true and I hope it is an oversight because especially now with the bigger screen phones

00:49:22 ◼   ► It makes so much sense if you're traveling and you have an iPhone 6 plus

00:49:25 ◼   ► Especially you're not gonna want to bring an iPad with you

00:49:28 ◼   ► But you might bring a camera with you might bring something else like a DSLR

00:49:32 ◼   ► I often take one with me, especially when I go out of town

00:49:34 ◼   ► For this kind of photography that I just don't use an iPhone for but the ability to bring that all in the DSLRs are still

00:49:40 ◼   ► Dead like there's no there's no camera play like there is carplay. So I need the iPhone to do all the cool modern

00:49:46 ◼   ► Connected stuff. Yeah, and you know, hopefully it's an oversight because I think it's a clear use

00:49:52 ◼   ► I mean at least two people on Twitter specifically, you know

00:49:54 ◼   ► And I take it that they're either avid avid amateur or maybe even professional photographers

00:49:58 ◼   ► I didn't ask the details but that they you know go out in the field with an

00:50:03 ◼   ► iPad and use that as their you know in the field editing and storage device and they would rather replace it with this

00:50:10 ◼   ► You know for the obvious reason that it's crazy small compared to an iPad

00:50:16 ◼   ► It's a great way to show off your portfolio especially for photographers a lot of them like the iPad because they can carry a lot

00:50:21 ◼   ► Of you know graphics work with them photography worth them and the iPad 6 and 6 plus will be great for that, too

00:50:26 ◼   ► yeah, I'm trying to think if there was anything else that I

00:50:29 ◼   ► Left out of my review that I could use here, but I can't think of anything. I did want to mention the two

00:50:37 ◼   ► And see what you think about them, but the two big

00:50:44 ◼   ► Well one's big and one maybe is not as big but the two negative things I had to say about the

00:50:48 ◼   ► Apple's decisions the first and it's the clearly the biggest is their decision to keep the the entry level on both phones at 16 gigabytes

00:50:56 ◼   ► and so that the split between

00:50:58 ◼   ► 199 299 399 and 299 399 499 for 99 for the two phones is

00:51:04 ◼   ► 1664

00:51:08 ◼   ► 128 instead of what to me looks more natural would be double them all 32 64 128

00:51:13 ◼   ► And I really like I said my in my review it almost seems punitive to only to ship one of these with only 16 gigabytes

00:51:22 ◼   ► I mean the original

00:51:23 ◼   ► iPhone the most popular model of it and back in 2007 had 8 gigabytes

00:51:28 ◼   ► So the only double it since the original eight product generations ago is ridiculous

00:51:34 ◼   ► And then I forgot about this because I bought my iPhone on day one

00:51:37 ◼   ► But Apple like six months after the original this is the original iPhone the original one

00:51:42 ◼   ► The one that only got to 2g networking

00:51:45 ◼   ► They shipped a 16 gigabyte model of it

00:51:48 ◼   ► Like in January or something like that. Do you remember that with the price cut? They also increased the storage. Yeah

00:51:54 ◼   ► So in other words the low-end iPhone 6 plus

00:51:58 ◼   ► Today has the same amount of storage as the high-end original iPhone back in 2007

00:52:06 ◼   ► That to me is it's just nuts

00:52:08 ◼   ► I can imagine a MacBook having the same hard drive space on the low end as a 2007 year a MacBook

00:52:13 ◼   ► Yeah

00:52:13 ◼   ► It's really and I keep seeing

00:52:15 ◼   ► Everybody today as they upgrade to iOS 8 is running into these problems where you need like it wants for 4 gigabytes free

00:52:22 ◼   ► 2 or 4 and a half gigabytes free to do the OS update. Yeah

00:52:26 ◼   ► Well, how is that how are you gonna if you've got a 16 gigabyte iPhone today

00:52:32 ◼   ► How in the world are you gonna have 4 gigabytes free next year when iOS 9 comes out?

00:52:35 ◼   ► And it's worse in some ways because they're still selling an 8 gigabyte iPhone 5c in there,

00:52:40 ◼   ► you know, they've sold 8 gigabyte models in India and China and other brick countries

00:52:44 ◼   ► before.

00:52:45 ◼   ► You know, maybe there'll be an 8 gigabyte iPhone 5s eventually, who knows.

00:52:49 ◼   ► And that last year, you know, there was no way I could recommend that phone to anybody.

00:52:52 ◼   ► It's just it's almost unusable at that point.

00:52:54 ◼   ► And now 16 feels like that.

00:52:56 ◼   ► I am at 8 gigabytes and with the size of iOS, I honestly wonder how if you took one and

00:53:03 ◼   ► did a factory restore on it and wiped all of your personal stuff off every

00:53:07 ◼   ► photo we've ever taken none of your own music do a factory restore is there

00:53:12 ◼   ► going to be enough room to install iOS 9 over the air I don't even know if that's

00:53:16 ◼   ► true I mean it's to me that's crazy given what has to be the relatively low

00:53:24 ◼   ► price differential Apple would pay for the to double those it's a punitive is a

00:53:31 ◼   ► good word for it as someone also made an analogy to airlines and how you have

00:53:35 ◼   ► economy class business class and first class and how economy class is

00:53:39 ◼   ► deliberately made more miserable in an effort to you know maybe upsell the

00:53:43 ◼   ► premium seating options that are an extra 50 bucks whatever and this the

00:53:47 ◼   ► typical marketing thing is have the entry-level model that gets people in

00:53:49 ◼   ► the door but that entry-level model maybe they they still believe that if it

00:53:54 ◼   ► was 32 gigs more people would opt for that and there'd be fewer people moving

00:53:57 ◼   ► to the medium tier and they really want the medium tier to be the normal one

00:54:00 ◼   ► I guess that's the only explanation honestly that I think that has to be it

00:54:05 ◼   ► So I'm not trying to act stupid like I don't see that angle

00:54:08 ◼   ► But I honestly think that's beneath Apple and in long in the long run

00:54:13 ◼   ► Whatever whatever increase in active or not active selling for average selling price. They're gonna get because of this

00:54:20 ◼   ► The the way they've made these tiers however much money they're gonna make on that to me is

00:54:27 ◼   ► is probably gonna be less than the damage

00:54:29 ◼   ► it's doing to their brand by selling brand new iPhone 6

00:54:34 ◼   ► and 6+s that honestly I think cannot be recommended.

00:54:37 ◼   ► I really, I would honestly say that anybody out there

00:54:42 ◼   ► looking for buying advice, pretend like those ones

00:54:44 ◼   ► don't exist and that the starting price is 299 and 399

00:54:48 ◼   ► on contract for the 64 gigabyte models.

00:54:50 ◼   ► Whereas I think 32 gigabytes would be fine

00:54:53 ◼   ► if you think that knowing how much space you use

00:54:56 ◼   ► your phone now, you know, knowing how much of your music and video collection you like

00:55:00 ◼   ► to carry around on the device. You know, I like to put my whole music library on the

00:55:05 ◼   ► device, which already puts me close to 64, or at least in, you know, over 32. And then

00:55:13 ◼   ► with 128, I will know, you know, for the last couple of months, I've every couple of weeks,

00:55:18 ◼   ► I have to delete stuff from my phone, because I get a warning that I'm used up the whole

00:55:22 ◼   ► 64 gigs because of shooting high def video and panoramic photos and stuff.

00:55:27 ◼   ► So I really want and can use the 128.

00:55:30 ◼   ► But I can see how somebody who doesn't store their music could easily get by with 32 and

00:55:34 ◼   ► have room to spare next year to upgrade to iOS 9 and stuff like that.

00:55:37 ◼   ► But 16 to me is really a disappointment.

00:55:41 ◼   ► I've heard an argument from some people in the BRIC countries that all the phones are

00:55:44 ◼   ► used for mainly in those countries because of the way the data plans are set up is you'll

00:55:48 ◼   ► get just a phone with a little bit of data and maybe Facebook Messenger or BBM or something

00:55:52 ◼   ► and it's primarily a text-based communications device because voice plans are so expensive.

00:55:58 ◼   ► And I also wonder if this if the carriers mandate or there's some sort of agreement

00:56:01 ◼   ► or there's some feeling that they have to have the brand new iPhone at $199 still because

00:56:06 ◼   ► it'd be interesting to see they did keep around the 32 gigabyte iPhone 5s if they let that

00:56:10 ◼   ► just be the the $199 device and the new iPhone started at $299 with 32 gigs.

00:56:16 ◼   ► I refuse to believe that if they made the entry level ones 32 that it would adversely

00:56:23 ◼   ► affect their margins.

00:56:24 ◼   ► And again, I say this knowing like I said on this show with, I think it was with Moltz

00:56:27 ◼   ► a couple of episodes back, it's so easy to armchair quarterback this and tell Apple to

00:56:33 ◼   ► make these decisions that, you know, they really ought to spend more money and go from

00:56:38 ◼   ► 16 to 32.

00:56:39 ◼   ► Whereas if you multiply out 100 million phones per year and the difference, you know, even

00:56:43 ◼   ► Even if it's only a dollar per phone, it's hundreds of millions of dollars.

00:56:48 ◼   ► And I agree, hundreds of millions of dollars is nothing to sneeze at, even for Apple.

00:56:52 ◼   ► But in this particular case, it just is too much, given the way they use it.

00:56:57 ◼   ► And they're really promoting these features with the improved camera, which I think is

00:57:03 ◼   ► a huge selling point, a huge reason to upgrade for regular people in these cameras.

00:57:09 ◼   ► Panoramic photos have gone to like 50 megapixels or 50 megabytes or what I forget what you know

00:57:15 ◼   ► but they're they're they're like twice the size of the old panoramic ones and you have the

00:57:19 ◼   ► Time lapse - you can take all those photos and combine them to a video

00:57:22 ◼   ► I mean these are gonna be huge people are gonna generate huge amounts of content

00:57:26 ◼   ► And I also have to wonder if they did go to 32 gigabytes if any difference will be made up because people might buy more

00:57:31 ◼   ► iCloud storage or they might buy more apps because they can fit you know

00:57:34 ◼   ► more premium games, more large-sized gigabyte-filling games on their phone.

00:57:39 ◼   ► I mean, it just seems like there's better ways of getting people into the iPhone.

00:57:43 ◼   ► And being an amateur camera guy, I know how amazing it is that you can buy a camera now

00:57:48 ◼   ► that does 240 frames per second slow motion, right?

00:57:52 ◼   ► Just a couple years ago, that was like a real...

00:57:54 ◼   ► I mean, shooting that level of slow-mo was expensive, and it was hard to find on any

00:57:58 ◼   ► kind of vaguely consumerist camera.

00:58:01 ◼   ► Now you have it on your phone.

00:58:02 ◼   ► But by definition, 240 frames per second is double the storage size of 120 frames per

00:58:09 ◼   ► second.

00:58:10 ◼   ► Did you see that 4K app for $1,000 on the App Store?

00:58:12 ◼   ► No.

00:58:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:14 ◼   ► No, tell me about it.

00:58:15 ◼   ► So I forget the manufacturer, but they're a well-known video production company.

00:58:17 ◼   ► They made really smart iPhone and iPad apps.

00:58:21 ◼   ► For example, they're the ones who made the app that you can go out into a crowd with

00:58:24 ◼   ► a bunch of different people, and everyone will send their video back to the same iPhone

00:58:28 ◼   ► or iPad, and you can do multi-cam editing.

00:58:31 ◼   ► And so the new one basically uses the camera instead of the video camera and takes multiple

00:58:34 ◼   ► pictures and stitches them together into 4K video right on your iPhone.

00:58:38 ◼   ► Wow.

00:58:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:42 ◼   ► There's really good camera stuff, especially in iOS 8.

00:58:44 ◼   ► I'll have to check that out.

00:58:46 ◼   ► What's the name of the app?

00:58:47 ◼   ► I have to look it up, but it does 4K video and it's $1,000.

00:58:50 ◼   ► I'm guessing there's only going to be one of them.

00:58:52 ◼   ► 4K.

00:58:53 ◼   ► I am rich, but actually useful.

00:58:55 ◼   ► 4K video app for $1,000.

00:58:58 ◼   ► God, I'm in the wrong business.

00:59:01 ◼   ► >> [LAUGH] Vesper with 4K.

00:59:03 ◼   ► >> Right.

00:59:04 ◼   ► That's amazing.

00:59:05 ◼   ► I'll have to look that up.

00:59:06 ◼   ► I'll try to remember to put it in the show notes, but I'll probably forget.

00:59:13 ◼   ► But what else?

00:59:14 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:59:15 ◼   ► I mean, as a guy who just wrote a 4,000-word review of the two phones, I feel silly saying

00:59:19 ◼   ► there's not that much more to talk about, but I don't know that there's that much more

00:59:23 ◼   ► to talk about.

00:59:24 ◼   ► >> I apologize.

00:59:25 ◼   ► It's Vizzywig 4K is the name of the app.

00:59:26 ◼   ► >> Vizzywig.

00:59:27 ◼   ► Okay.

00:59:28 ◼   ► wig how do you spell that v iz zy wig 4k v iz zy g w ig w ig 4k this wig oh whatever well that seems

00:59:44 ◼   ► like a weird name for a thousand dollar app um

00:59:52 ◼   ► I thought it was interesting that they sold more phones than ever before by apparently a long shot.

00:59:58 ◼   ► Yeah, it was four million pre-orders.

01:00:00 ◼   ► Yeah, even with the whole pre-order system shitting the bed almost completely.

01:00:06 ◼   ► Yeah, I saw you tweet. I was up until, I think, 4 or 5 a.m. before I got my pre-orders done.

01:00:13 ◼   ► Eastern time?

01:00:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:14 ◼   ► Oh, I was up later than that. Yeah, that's... No, because it was only 3 a.m. Eastern time

01:00:21 ◼   ► when they went live, right?

01:00:22 ◼   ► It was supposed to go live. Yeah, and apple.com the main store page didn't go live

01:00:25 ◼   ► But a couple friends of mine sent me direct links about an hour an hour and a half later, which actually worked

01:00:30 ◼   ► I was on the west coast in Portland for XOXO

01:00:34 ◼   ► and so it was midnight for us when it first went live and I tried you last year I

01:00:40 ◼   ► used the

01:00:43 ◼   ► The app the app Apple Store app and at the stroke of midnight I opened the app and it was like

01:00:51 ◼   ► like not ready yet and then I reloaded. I went back to home screen, opened the app again

01:00:58 ◼   ► and it was there and it was ready and it was like, I don't know, 12.00.15 and I clicked

01:01:06 ◼   ► you know iPhone 5S space gray 64 Verizon upgrade this phone that I'm on right now and you know

01:01:17 ◼   ► credit card authorization and by like 1201 30 I was done and that was it and

01:01:23 ◼   ► Amy was with me and she did the same thing and you know then we were that was

01:01:28 ◼   ► it I got an email and you know the next Friday my phone came this time we I

01:01:33 ◼   ► spent I don't know two hours sitting there you know we were having drinks and

01:01:37 ◼   ► socializing but I spent like two hours in the app I spent went to the Apple

01:01:41 ◼   ► store calm and no matter what I did I couldn't get it to work and I eventually

01:01:45 ◼   ► had to resort to going to Verizon. The app was for me the app started before the website did and

01:01:51 ◼   ► would let me pick the phone I wanted but the buttons to actually order it never activated.

01:01:55 ◼   ► Yeah that's exactly what I well I had trouble getting there I would say most every most times

01:01:59 ◼   ► I tried I never even got that far and about one out of three times I tried I'd get all the way to

01:02:03 ◼   ► the part where it let me pick iPhone 6 space gray 128 Verizon and the button to say add this to cart

01:02:13 ◼   ► Just never activated such a tease. Yeah, but right next to me it worked for Amy eventually, but just randomly, you know

01:02:20 ◼   ► like 20 minutes in

01:02:21 ◼   ► She was there just sitting on that screen with the inactive add to cart button and then all of a sudden the add to cart button

01:02:27 ◼   ► Went live and that was it. Everybody loves Amy. Well, I don't know about that

01:02:31 ◼   ► But yeah, and it was strange because watching the carrier sites

01:02:35 ◼   ► Some of them announced they'd go up later and they came up earlier

01:02:38 ◼   ► Some people could get to Verizon some couldn't some could get to AT&T some couldn't some got waiting listed

01:02:43 ◼   ► T-Mobile took forever. They do this every year and they still can't get their shit together.

01:02:49 ◼   ► Verizon's worked. I don't think that I had. I went through in one shot with no bugs, but

01:02:54 ◼   ► it's such a design nightmare. And doing it on the phone makes it worse because their

01:02:58 ◼   ► site is not mobile optimized. Really small fonts, lots of pinching and zooming and panning

01:03:03 ◼   ► around. But I was out. I didn't have anything else to order with. I had to use the phone.

01:03:07 ◼   ► And I just, you know, it ends up I think I could have still ordered the next morning

01:03:11 ◼   ► and still gotten Friday delivery, but that's because I wanted the six.

01:03:16 ◼   ► And I didn't want to take that chance that it wouldn't come right away, you know, that

01:03:18 ◼   ► it would go to two, three weeks delivery.

01:03:22 ◼   ► I have the Verizon website design-wise and in terms of the ways that they try to trick

01:03:29 ◼   ► you and get you to buy like get it with a protection plan, get it with a car charger.

01:03:35 ◼   ► It's like those bad domain registration sites.

01:03:37 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

01:03:38 ◼   ► And just the layout of it and the colors all this red it just reminds me of like what it would be like to like

01:03:44 ◼   ► Get your driver's license and if the Soviet Union were still around

01:03:47 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like it's like some kind of I don't know. It's probably like what the internet is like in North Korea

01:03:53 ◼   ► It's like oppressive no and it's yeah a company that is designed to sell you phones cannot sell you phones effectively on

01:04:03 ◼   ► Well, you know Apple calm just went responsive

01:04:06 ◼   ► So I don't want to be too critical, but if you're selling products that involve mobile you really should work on mobile

01:04:10 ◼   ► Yeah, says a guy whose whose website isn't yet responsive and whose number one platform for page views is iOS

01:04:18 ◼   ► I was really I that's the thing that bummed me out about Apple going

01:04:21 ◼   ► Apple calm going responsive is I really thought that was the thing that I

01:04:25 ◼   ► Could I could still lean against and say well, I'm not the last. Yeah now, you know looks like I'm gonna be last

01:04:31 ◼   ► Let me take a break here and thank

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01:07:38 ◼   ► any questions about the iPhone 6 or 6 Plus from someone who's used it?

01:07:42 ◼   ► Not that I can think of. I mean, I got to spend about 20 minutes with them in the demo

01:07:47 ◼   ► room, so nowhere nearly enough to get my hands on them. But I'm not sure I'm going to be

01:07:51 ◼   ► able to make any sort of opinion until I've used them for a week. What I liked about your

01:07:56 ◼   ► review is that you used both of them for a period of time, and that really sort of cemented

01:08:00 ◼   ► how the iPhone 6 Plus wasn't for you.

01:08:03 ◼   ► Yeah. I'm not good at doing… I work slowly, and I think slowly, and I really wish… I

01:08:12 ◼   ► that I'd had two weeks to do it so I could have done a full week with each one. It just seemed to

01:08:18 ◼   ► me like if I switched back and forth every day all day for a week I'd never get a good sense of either

01:08:24 ◼   ► so I thought I'll do three with the plus first then three with the six and then you know write

01:08:30 ◼   ► my review on the seventh day and it you know when I went when I switched from the plus and I you know

01:08:38 ◼   ► I I did I would say

01:08:40 ◼   ► 98% of my iPhone usage was on the device

01:08:44 ◼   ► I was using either one or two things that I used my personal iPhone for because I didn't have it on the review unit

01:08:50 ◼   ► I couldn't get uber working for example on that thing and it was a weird, you know the

01:08:59 ◼   ► You know this that the location

01:09:03 ◼   ► Settings in iOS 8 have changed to be more fine-grained. Yeah

01:09:08 ◼   ► Well, existing apps that haven't been updated for iOS 8, it puts them that want to use your

01:09:14 ◼   ► location. It puts them in a weird spot where they, it's like Uber wasn't asking me, "Hey,

01:09:19 ◼   ► can I use location services?" I never even got prompted. It would just give me an error,

01:09:25 ◼   ► and it gave me the error when I was signing in. I would type my email address and my Uber password

01:09:30 ◼   ► and hit OK. And instead of saying, "Your password is good, you're in," or, "Your password wasn't

01:09:35 ◼   ► entered correctly, tried again.

01:09:37 ◼   ► After I hit sign in, it would say your location

01:09:39 ◼   ► can't be determined.

01:09:41 ◼   ► And it took me like days to figure this out.

01:09:44 ◼   ► And then I was, I thought, oh, it's not the phone,

01:09:48 ◼   ► it's iOS 8.

01:09:49 ◼   ► And I went to settings, location, Uber,

01:09:52 ◼   ► and Uber was listed as one of the apps that wanted location.

01:09:56 ◼   ► But instead of saying that it was set to don't allow

01:10:00 ◼   ► or allow or allow only when I'm in the app,

01:10:05 ◼   ► it was set to nothing.

01:10:06 ◼   ► It was like nothing at all.

01:10:07 ◼   ► So if I tapped Uber and then just said,

01:10:09 ◼   ► here, let it use my location while I'm in the app,

01:10:12 ◼   ► then I went back to Uber and it all worked.

01:10:14 ◼   ► But in the meantime, to order Ubers around San Francisco,

01:10:18 ◼   ► I had to use my real iPhone.

01:10:19 ◼   ► So there's just one example of something that I couldn't do.

01:10:21 ◼   ► But everything other than that, I used the Revu phones.

01:10:25 ◼   ► When I switched after three days to the iPhone 6,

01:10:28 ◼   ► it was like, wow, this is a relief.

01:10:30 ◼   ► - I think it's almost inarguable that the iPhone 6

01:10:33 ◼   ► is a linear successor to the iPhones

01:10:35 ◼   ► that have come before and the iPhone 6 Plus,

01:10:36 ◼   ► like you pointed out, is really something new.

01:10:39 ◼   ► And we know some people who've had them for a while now

01:10:42 ◼   ► and the comments are the same,

01:10:43 ◼   ► you know, it's not a one-handed device.

01:10:45 ◼   ► Kind of scared of dropping it

01:10:46 ◼   ► when I try to use it one-handed.

01:10:48 ◼   ► And I think it's really important

01:10:50 ◼   ► that people think of it as something else

01:10:51 ◼   ► or they might just get it thinking it's the next iPhone.

01:10:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, I do wonder, like I wrote last year,

01:10:57 ◼   ► I do wonder whether there's going to be

01:10:58 ◼   ► some amount of buyer's regret

01:11:01 ◼   ► where somebody goes in the store

01:11:03 ◼   ► and it just looks so impressive.

01:11:04 ◼   ► Because it does.

01:11:05 ◼   ► I mean it is a striking device physically.

01:11:13 ◼   ► And they're going to say, "Wow, that looks so awesome.

01:11:15 ◼   ► I'm going to get that one."

01:11:16 ◼   ► And then when they actually get it, they start running into problems like it's hard to get

01:11:19 ◼   ► out of your pocket while you're sitting down.

01:11:21 ◼   ► It's hard to put back in your pocket while you're sitting down.

01:11:23 ◼   ► Well, imagine if you go into Best Buy and every television was subsidized.

01:11:28 ◼   ► So they were all $200 or $300 regardless of the size.

01:11:32 ◼   ► just see a hundred and twenty inch television it's three hundred bucks and you're gonna

01:11:35 ◼   ► make it yours and then you get home and you realize there's no way to get that thing in

01:11:40 ◼   ► unless you take down a wall.

01:11:41 ◼   ► It's something like it might be something like that I don't know. I compared it to like

01:11:48 ◼   ► the way that people tend to buy oversaturated TVs in Best Buy because when you look at them

01:11:52 ◼   ► side by side you're not really imagining you know you're not looking at it in the right

01:11:56 ◼   ► context and the extra saturation is striking and you think it looks good and then you get

01:12:01 ◼   ► at home and it's like you realize that skin tones are just way off and everything is it

01:12:06 ◼   ► doesn't look good it just looks vibrant.

01:12:09 ◼   ► I don't want to scare anybody off because there are going to be people that it is going

01:12:11 ◼   ► to be a tremendous productivity boom for them and they're going to love it and they're going

01:12:15 ◼   ► to wonder how they survived with a small screen before.

01:12:18 ◼   ► Yeah I think it's you know but I think most people know it when they see it.

01:12:23 ◼   ► I had to laugh and I loved it I didn't mention it online but I loved Panzarino's review.

01:12:29 ◼   ► I thought it was such a great idea to, you know, that, you know, and maybe it was like

01:12:32 ◼   ► a happy coincidence because, you know, his family already had the Disneyland trip planned.

01:12:37 ◼   ► But what a great, what a great stress test for review units of a phone than something

01:12:43 ◼   ► like that which, you know, is, you know, you naturally, you don't have to contrive reasons

01:12:49 ◼   ► to shoot photos or videos. You're on a family vacation at Disneyland. You're going to want

01:12:52 ◼   ► to shoot photos and videos. And the lighting conditions are all over the place because

01:12:56 ◼   ► you might be out in bright daylight walking around the park and then you go on a ride

01:13:00 ◼   ► where it's super dark. I thought that was a great review. But I had to laugh at his

01:13:08 ◼   ► crazy idea of masking the two phones in Android smartphone cases and then cutting a hole for

01:13:15 ◼   ► the difference in the camera location. You don't have to do that. He should have reread

01:13:21 ◼   ► the embargo agreement that you get from Apple

01:13:25 ◼   ► when you get a review,

01:13:27 ◼   ► you're allowed to use them in real life.

01:13:29 ◼   ► You don't have to hide them.

01:13:30 ◼   ► You don't have to disguise them.

01:13:32 ◼   ► There'd be no other way to do a real world review.

01:13:35 ◼   ► You can go out and just use the phone.

01:13:37 ◼   ► They give you cases, their cases,

01:13:41 ◼   ► so you can review the cases too if you want.

01:13:43 ◼   ► But since I don't use a case in real life,

01:13:46 ◼   ► I don't use a case with my review phones either.

01:13:48 ◼   ► I just use them.

01:13:51 ◼   ► There are rules.

01:13:52 ◼   ► I mean, for example, everybody knows there's an embargo

01:13:54 ◼   ► of when you're allowed to publish

01:13:56 ◼   ► any kind of writing about it.

01:13:59 ◼   ► And you're also not allowed,

01:14:02 ◼   ► and this part I'm actually thinking about emailing them

01:14:04 ◼   ► and seeing if they might reconsider it.

01:14:06 ◼   ► You're not allowed to post to any social media

01:14:08 ◼   ► a photo that you've taken with it.

01:14:11 ◼   ► Which once or twice, and I stick to it,

01:14:13 ◼   ► but once or twice I get XOXO, it kinda stunk

01:14:16 ◼   ► because all the photos I was taking

01:14:18 ◼   ► I couldn't Instagram any of them.

01:14:19 ◼   ► I have to like, what do they call it?

01:14:20 ◼   ► later gram them. And that is sort of a, it actually sort of makes it so that you

01:14:27 ◼   ► can't fully use these review phones the way I would use a real phone because I

01:14:31 ◼   ► do post things to Instagram or photos to Twitter. But you know that a bunch of

01:14:36 ◼   ► websites, the minute that happens we'll say first iPhone 6 camera shots appear

01:14:40 ◼   ► on social networks and they'll analyze the flicker information. Yeah I kind of

01:14:45 ◼   ► see what you know I am sure that's exactly why the rule exists and you know

01:14:50 ◼   ► And it's a very sit the way they have it written now is a simple rule

01:14:53 ◼   ► You can't share photos from taken with this camera over a social network simple. Yes or no, you can't do it

01:14:59 ◼   ► Whereas what I guess I kind of want them to do is I wish I could do it without

01:15:03 ◼   ► But with the rule that I can't say hey, I took this with an iPhone 6, you know in here

01:15:09 ◼   ► Here's a version of the same scene taken with an iPhone 5

01:15:13 ◼   ► Look at the difference, you know in advance of the embargo date, but just posting, you know

01:15:18 ◼   ► without commenting on it I

01:15:20 ◼   ► Don't know and I don't even know like does Instagram keep the exif data

01:15:25 ◼   ► I know flicker does so flicker I could see flicker

01:15:28 ◼   ► I could see I would I could see them making maybe a whitelist of you can post to Twitter and Instagram

01:15:34 ◼   ► If it if like exif data is stripped from those apps or something like that any website that makes horribly compressed overly filtered versions of

01:15:42 ◼   ► Your photographs are fine to post to

01:15:44 ◼   ► Exactly right so maybe they could whitelist a few but anyway it's a bit of a

01:15:48 ◼   ► You know it's a bit of a hassle not be able to I liked panzerinos review too because he's a pro

01:15:55 ◼   ► He was a professional photographer, and he knows to look for things like how it handles

01:15:58 ◼   ► Saturated reds that you know I don't that not everyone look for and I also the Austin man piece that ran on his blog on

01:16:05 ◼   ► The verge we took it with him to Iceland you know just to see I cannot ever take photographs like that

01:16:11 ◼   ► But I like to see what the potential is with someone who really knows how to use that camera

01:16:14 ◼   ► Yeah, his his review made me feel so much better about not really having done any

01:16:18 ◼   ► photography testing of mine that I just sort of ran out of time and just ran it and didn't really take any

01:16:24 ◼   ► Side-by-side pictures to really compare it's like well

01:16:27 ◼   ► It would have been a waste of time anyway, because his review blew it away in terms of depth and expertise in terms of photography

01:16:33 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like watching it someone in Middle Earth take around the life on six. It's ridiculous

01:16:37 ◼   ► All right

01:16:37 ◼   ► So it just made me laugh though that panzerino went around Disney World with his eyes is his iPhone sixes in these

01:16:43 ◼   ► horribly janky, cut up with hotel scissors Android cases, when he could have just used them out and

01:16:49 ◼   ► about. But I will say, as somebody who did that for the last week, using it just out and about,

01:16:53 ◼   ► people recognized it. Like last year, I don't think anybody did. Like I, because I had an iPhone,

01:16:59 ◼   ► I forget what color it was. I already had a gold one. I had a gold 5S. So I guess some people did

01:17:05 ◼   ► notice. There were some people who noticed because I had a gold one and gold was new.

01:17:08 ◼   ► But if I had had a space gray one, nobody would have known. Even though space gray is a different

01:17:12 ◼   ► color than the black that came before it. People just don't really notice. You know,

01:17:17 ◼   ► it's iPhones and iPhone. The gold, a couple people noticed. But testing these two phones

01:17:21 ◼   ► in the wild, especially the Plus, just complete strangers would say, "Oh my God, is that

01:17:27 ◼   ► the new iPhone?" Over and over and over again to the point where--and I didn't want to be

01:17:32 ◼   ► photographed using it. I didn't want anybody posting pictures of me using it. So I would

01:17:36 ◼   ► say yes, and you're allowed to. You don't have to lie. You don't have to suddenly run

01:17:41 ◼   ► away or something. You can say, "Yes, it's an iPhone 6 Plus. It's a review unit from

01:17:46 ◼   ► Apple." But you're not allowed to let people touch it and you're not allowed to demonstrate

01:17:51 ◼   ► it in a public way. So you can't say, "Sure, gather around employees of Super Duper Burger

01:17:57 ◼   ► and I will show you the iPhone 6 Plus." So you kind of have to be a little bit of a jerk

01:18:04 ◼   ► about it, but you don't have to hide it. You don't have to lie about it or anything like

01:18:10 ◼   ► that or put it in a case.

01:18:11 ◼   ► That's the same as last year did that change as well?

01:18:13 ◼   ► No, that's always been the same as far as at least since I've been reviewing them which started with the Verizon iPhone

01:18:18 ◼   ► For what's much better way to test it if that if the embargo or the NDA was stricter than that

01:18:24 ◼   ► It'd probably not be a functional test for you, right? It really wouldn't be if you had to you know

01:18:28 ◼   ► You know disguise it or something like that locked in a room

01:18:31 ◼   ► Right because even if I had to put it in some kind of case

01:18:34 ◼   ► It would have affected my ability to judge just how pocketable it is without a case

01:18:39 ◼   ► Which is really what I'm…

01:18:40 ◼   ► Yeah, how durable, how good the finish is. There's so many things.

01:18:42 ◼   ► Right. So that made me laugh.

01:18:45 ◼   ► It was a great extra paragraph or two in his article, though.

01:18:48 ◼   ► Yeah, it made me laugh, though, knowing the rules. What do you think about… I guess if there's anything else that's controversial about the design of the two phones. It's the camera nubbin?

01:18:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:59 ◼   ► Or the bulge, as I'm calling it. I'm not quite sure what to call it. One thing a couple people on Twitter pointed out, and again, because I don't use a case…

01:19:07 ◼   ► I guess it occurred to me, but it didn't really pop to my forefront is for anybody who does use their iPhone in a case

01:19:14 ◼   ► Which I do believe to be a majority if not an overwhelming majority of iPhone users just out and about in a real world

01:19:21 ◼   ► it seems to me like

01:19:22 ◼   ► Certainly many people don't but it seems like most people do use a case and if you do use a case

01:19:28 ◼   ► it's absolutely irrelevant because even the thinnest of cases is going to be thinner than the thickness of the bulge around the

01:19:36 ◼   ► camera lens

01:19:37 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely

01:19:38 ◼   ► and even I think some people point us out to

01:19:40 ◼   ► People who make accessories like all o clip can now have use that as a guide to make sure that it stays in place when they

01:19:46 ◼   ► Put it on

01:19:47 ◼   ► Yeah, it's you know, I would never go so far as to argue that it's therefore a feature and not a you know

01:19:53 ◼   ► A design trade-off but there is it's sort of like a silver lining in in the trade-off

01:19:59 ◼   ► Well, I mean the iPod touch had this two years ago three years ago whenever that launched and it's because cameras

01:20:06 ◼   ► Apple talks about the five element lens and cameras really need depth. That's why lenses sometimes are so thick

01:20:11 ◼   ► It's and the phones they want to make super thin and that creates a huge tension make the phone thinner

01:20:15 ◼   ► They have to make a worse camera. They're not gonna do that

01:20:18 ◼   ► they did they did a miracle of engineering with the iPhone 5 to get that 8 megapixel camera in there and

01:20:23 ◼   ► I don't think they could I'm sure they tried

01:20:27 ◼   ► I don't think they could get it into a phone as thin as these and like you said that was a compromise they had to

01:20:31 ◼   ► Make yeah

01:20:33 ◼   ► Well, it's not that you know, I presented three options first would be use a camera that fits flush and has worse optics

01:20:41 ◼   ► I think that was out of the question because I believe a camera of that size

01:20:45 ◼   ► Not only would a certainly would have had worse optics than the one they did include but it might have even had worse optics

01:20:51 ◼   ► Probably would have had worse optics than the 5s. Absolutely 5c and that's just unacceptable

01:20:57 ◼   ► They can't sell the high-end iPhone with a camera that's worse than the one from a year or two before

01:21:02 ◼   ► Just it you know

01:21:04 ◼   ► Inconceivable there's no magic option to just magically make it happen

01:21:10 ◼   ► And I've seen it on Twitter a handful of people on Twitter who if Steve Jobs was there

01:21:14 ◼   ► He would have browbeat them into making a camera. That was that thin enough and didn't sacrifice image quality

01:21:20 ◼   ► Well, I that's not how it worked

01:21:23 ◼   ► He was a you know a great motivator and he often drove people to do more than they could think they could

01:21:29 ◼   ► I don't think he could bend the laws of physics and you know, they still do they did

01:21:36 ◼   ► You know, they do things like use Sony sensors, you know, they use components. They don't the camera isn't entirely their own creation

01:21:42 ◼   ► they have like a Sony sensor in there which already places a starting limit on how far away the lens has to be to

01:21:48 ◼   ► to

01:21:50 ◼   ► Cover the whole sensor with an image so I'm gonna say that that was out. I think the choice came between

01:21:57 ◼   ► doing what they did and having a bulge around the camera lens or

01:22:01 ◼   ► making the whole device as thick as needed be this to sit flush with the camera that they have and then they're you know

01:22:09 ◼   ► Make the battery a little thicker to take advantage of that extra space

01:22:14 ◼   ► Yeah

01:22:15 ◼   ► Where they could and that's the thing that I've a lot of people pushed back on my review about that

01:22:20 ◼   ► They should have because that would have been better. There's it still would have been thinner than the 5s

01:22:25 ◼   ► How is that not thin enough and then battery life would have been better on the both phones?

01:22:30 ◼   ► you know that this is folly on Apple's part because it would have been better for everybody because

01:22:35 ◼   ► A little bit that much more thickness wouldn't have mattered

01:22:39 ◼   ► It still would have been a thin phone and then battery life would have been better

01:22:41 ◼   ► It's it's really interesting because a lot of people when Apple went to the iPhone 5 and that was thinner than the iPhone 4s that

01:22:47 ◼   ► You know just keep it the same as the 4s

01:22:48 ◼   ► I want more battery

01:22:49 ◼   ► But everything really is a trade-off and I think Apple is more

01:22:53 ◼   ► Obsessed as they are with thinness and they've made an entirely new

01:22:57 ◼   ► backlight just to get it thinner

01:22:59 ◼   ► I think that is because it translates into weight and I've got like I said

01:23:03 ◼   ► I've got a Lumia 1020 and that feels like a brick and the Nexus 5 is about the same size and it feels even though

01:23:09 ◼   ► It's the same size

01:23:10 ◼   ► It feels so much smaller because it's lighter and the iPhone 6 Plus felt smaller again than a lot of those phones

01:23:15 ◼   ► Well than the galaxy note and I think Apple realized when they went big one of their goals was to be light so that it

01:23:21 ◼   ► Didn't it didn't end up feeling like a weaponized instrument in your hand. Yeah. Yeah

01:23:25 ◼   ► It is like I wrote my review. It's heavier

01:23:29 ◼   ► The fuck the six is heavier than the 5s, but it doesn't feel heavier because I think by you know

01:23:36 ◼   ► By mass, it's actually lighter, you know per per per volume

01:23:41 ◼   ► It's it's lighter even though overall it's it's actually a little heavier and it's that illusion thing again, too

01:23:46 ◼   ► Because I had a chance to see a bunch of people using them during the week and you look at it

01:23:51 ◼   ► Then you look at your iPhone 5 and it's that same feelings when you look back on an iPhone 4s now

01:23:55 ◼   ► And it looks like a stunted little iPhone mini

01:23:57 ◼   ► It's that once you see that because of the curves because of the way that it's built

01:24:01 ◼   ► It just looks so much newer than the iPhone 5 and I think that whole thing combines together to make the big size more acceptable

01:24:07 ◼   ► Yeah

01:24:09 ◼   ► I think it's reasonable, perfectly reasonable,

01:24:14 ◼   ► to argue the side of they should have just made

01:24:16 ◼   ► both phones a little thicker to let the camera sit flush

01:24:20 ◼   ► and have put slightly bigger batteries in.

01:24:22 ◼   ► Perfectly reasonable.

01:24:24 ◼   ► I think it's not reasonable to argue that what Apple

01:24:27 ◼   ► did choose to do is also reasonable,

01:24:30 ◼   ► and that Apple simply prioritizes thinness and weight

01:24:34 ◼   ► a little bit more than other people do.

01:24:38 ◼   ► I mean it's interesting because I believe the iPod touch at least it was certainly designed

01:24:42 ◼   ► While Steve Jobs was still around in that ship there was no right band right shipping that so I think you know that that's not it

01:24:49 ◼   ► Yeah, it's you know we're running out of time to say no actually

01:24:53 ◼   ► Steve Jobs actually was there for that, but that's the the protruding camera lens

01:24:58 ◼   ► You can't say Steve Jobs never would have done it because he did he was there when the the iPod touch that has that was was

01:25:04 ◼   ► Was designed yeah

01:25:08 ◼   ► I don't think people some people have said today they need to do they need to buy a case now

01:25:13 ◼   ► Because otherwise if you put your phone flat on a table or something like that the lens is gonna get scratched

01:25:18 ◼   ► I don't think the lens is any more likely to get scratched than it was on the 5s because it's still a sapphire

01:25:23 ◼   ► cover on the outside of the lens

01:25:26 ◼   ► and if anything that the metal ring around it would be less likely to have the you know

01:25:34 ◼   ► The lens actually touching the surface of the table that you're on. I don't know

01:25:37 ◼   ► It certainly doesn't make me want to put a case on it. I'm not worried

01:25:40 ◼   ► I was about to ask you that because in the iPod touch and I'm holding it right now

01:25:43 ◼   ► The ring goes a little bit further than the lens. So it does protect the lens now

01:25:47 ◼   ► I didn't I forgot to check that I think it does but it if you know, it's very slight

01:25:51 ◼   ► But I do think that given that it would just be sitting at a slight angle

01:25:54 ◼   ► I think it means that the you know on a perfectly flat table. I don't think any part of the lens would actually

01:26:04 ◼   ► Would actually touch the table

01:26:05 ◼   ► So I think if anything it's a little bit less likely and some people have worried about it not being flush when you put it

01:26:10 ◼   ► Down on his back on a table, but again the iPod touch

01:26:12 ◼   ► There's one corner that you can push out that makes it a little bit

01:26:15 ◼   ► But it's all it does. Yeah, it wiggles a little bit on a perfectly flat table, but it's it doesn't bother me

01:26:20 ◼   ► I mean in theory do I wish it were flush of course, but

01:26:23 ◼   ► You know, I same thing with the lines for the antenna lines, you know, people are asking about those

01:26:29 ◼   ► You know, I didn't even mention them in the review. What are they're fine

01:26:32 ◼   ► I don't I don't think that they're bad. I don't think they're good

01:26:35 ◼   ► I mean, you know, there's always some kind of concession to the antenna in every single phone

01:26:40 ◼   ► I mean the original iPhone had a big black plastic thing on the bottom inch of it. You know, it's

01:26:46 ◼   ► It's fine. Yeah

01:26:48 ◼   ► I don't know

01:26:49 ◼   ► my wife actually thinks it looks good on the gold ones almost like like the way that on like a handbag or like a

01:26:56 ◼   ► Woman's jacket or something like that the the pattern of the panel, you know

01:27:00 ◼   ► that sometimes at the seams of a piece of clothing or something like that are meant

01:27:04 ◼   ► you know they're stitched in a different color you know that it looks something like that

01:27:08 ◼   ► so it's like Boba Fett it's great yeah one last thing before we move away from the phones

01:27:14 ◼   ► is I want to I want to hopefully this will show up on the audio so I've got I've got

01:27:21 ◼   ► three phones in front of me right now the my 5s the 6 and the 6 plus and I'm going to

01:27:29 ◼   ► toggle the silent switch on and off holding it up against the microphone so

01:27:34 ◼   ► I'm going to start with the iPhone 5s.

01:27:38 ◼   ► Did you hear that? All right now here's the 6. Could you hear that? That was much

01:27:51 ◼   ► harder to hear but I heard it. Much harder to hear lower right so the 6 is a

01:27:55 ◼   ► a much quieter vibration. Now here's the 6S, I mean the 6 Plus. One more. It's way louder.

01:28:10 ◼   ► It's really, I'm just sitting here and I'm actually going to power this one down because

01:28:15 ◼   ► I'm getting notifications and it's so loud, even sitting on my desk that I know that they're

01:28:19 ◼   ► showing up in the audio for the show. It's a really loud silent switch. Almost

01:28:24 ◼   ► problematically so. And I even double-checked with Apple to make sure

01:28:28 ◼   ► that I didn't get a unit with, you know, that was abnormal in that regard. And they

01:28:32 ◼   ► said, "No, it is a little bit louder." It's also way stronger. It's like,

01:28:35 ◼   ► there's no way you can miss it. I wonder if that's a concession to the idea that

01:28:38 ◼   ► not as many people might pocket it, but they might put it in a bag or a purse or

01:28:41 ◼   ► something. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's on purpose. Yeah, maybe that is true. I

01:28:46 ◼   ► don't know, but I'm surprised more people haven't commented on it in the initial

01:28:49 ◼   ► reviews because it is a real difference especially compared to the regular 6

01:28:52 ◼   ► which is even quieter than previous iPhones. That's interesting. It's almost

01:28:57 ◼   ► to the point where it's like I don't even think you'd call it silent mode

01:29:01 ◼   ► you'd call it vibrate mode because it's it's not silent and in a room I almost

01:29:06 ◼   ► wonder like in a room with you know if there was like a meeting and people put

01:29:11 ◼   ► their phones in front of them you know that it's it's gonna be almost

01:29:14 ◼   ► problematic that that it you know this is yeah a lot of boardrooms are gonna

01:29:18 ◼   ► have trouble. Yeah, I don't know. Let me take one last break here and thank our

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01:33:38 ◼   ► show.

01:33:39 ◼   ► Man, we still have iOS 8 to talk about.

01:33:41 ◼   ► I say skip the rest of the event.

01:33:43 ◼   ► I'll cover that on future shows.

01:33:45 ◼   ► Seriously, we just don't have time.

01:33:47 ◼   ► Before we get to iOS 8 though, I guess we could talk about Apple Pay.

01:33:51 ◼   ► I'm wondering what you think about that.

01:33:54 ◼   ► It's really interesting because I have NFC everywhere around me.

01:33:57 ◼   ► Sears takes it, McDonald's takes it, the gas stations take it.

01:34:01 ◼   ► It's just everywhere.

01:34:02 ◼   ► So both my credit cards have a little NFC sticker on them, a sticker with printing on

01:34:08 ◼   ► them, and you go up and you tap the gas pump, you tap the cash register, and it just works

01:34:13 ◼   ► and it's great.

01:34:15 ◼   ► And the idea of having that on my iPhone so I don't...

01:34:18 ◼   ► My only concern with it is if I ever drop my card, you know, someone can pick it up

01:34:21 ◼   ► and go start tapping for gas or tapping for food, it'll take a while before I realize

01:34:25 ◼   ► it.

01:34:26 ◼   ► So having it on my phone is hugely appealing because I don't have to carry those credit

01:34:29 ◼   ► cards with me, I don't have to worry about dropping them.

01:34:32 ◼   ► And because they're doing it in such a secure way where they're encrypting everything, they're

01:34:36 ◼   ► putting it on the secure element, and they're doing this one-time credit card number, it's

01:34:42 ◼   ► even better than the convenience that I already have with NFC, so I'm really excited.

01:34:46 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's one of those cases where what Apple said is exactly the truth, and

01:34:51 ◼   ► there's no reason to be cynical about it.

01:34:52 ◼   ► But Tim Cook's explanation that, look, everybody's tried to do this before, and they've all fallen

01:34:56 ◼   ► short.

01:34:57 ◼   ► And the reason they've fallen short is that they've come up with schemes that are built

01:34:59 ◼   ► around their own self-interest.

01:35:02 ◼   ► In other words, I think, because they want to make a lot of money on it, rather than

01:35:07 ◼   ► approaching it as let's look at it from the perspective of the customer and just make

01:35:11 ◼   ► their experience better and let the fallout come after that.

01:35:15 ◼   ► They're going to make money on this.

01:35:17 ◼   ► There's no doubt that this isn't saying that Apple is doing it for free and all the money

01:35:21 ◼   ► is passing through without them getting it.

01:35:22 ◼   ► But they're not making a lot per transaction.

01:35:24 ◼   ► They're taking a tiny little sliver of the transactions.

01:35:28 ◼   ► not asking retailers to install an Apple back-end system. They're not asking retailers to install

01:35:35 ◼   ► Apple's, you know, proprietary iPhone only thing at the register. It's an industry standard.

01:35:42 ◼   ► It's already in hundreds of thousands of locations. They're just making it work easier than anybody

01:35:47 ◼   ► else has. And it's really just, I think primarily just about making it another way that it's

01:35:53 ◼   ► nicer to own an iPhone than it is to own any other phone. That's the main advantage to

01:35:59 ◼   ► Apple. It's not about the fraction of a penny per transaction that they're going to make.

01:36:04 ◼   ► Although they'll keep that money. I think it's primarily a way to just, you know, why

01:36:11 ◼   ► do they sweat over the details of putting in a higher 400 pixel per inch display in

01:36:16 ◼   ► the iPhone 6? Because it's nicer for customers. I think that's what Apple Pay is all about.

01:36:22 ◼   ► I therefore think, and I mean this, I don't think, you know, I think there's some people

01:36:27 ◼   ► who are going to roll their eyes, but I think it's win-win-win.

01:36:31 ◼   ► It's good for Apple because they will make some money on this and it will make iPhones

01:36:37 ◼   ► a little bit stickier as something that people are – once they have it, they're going

01:36:41 ◼   ► to want to keep buying them.

01:36:43 ◼   ► I think it's good for customers because I think it's an amazing experience.

01:36:47 ◼   ► And we got to play with it.

01:36:48 ◼   ► They did have – they had like play registers set up at the hands-on area.

01:36:54 ◼   ► If anything, their demo video in the keynote undersold how easy it is.

01:37:00 ◼   ► It's really, really convenient.

01:37:02 ◼   ► And then it's good for the retailers.

01:37:04 ◼   ► Apple isn't charging them like some kind of crazy 70/30 split.

01:37:07 ◼   ► They're not asking for an exorbitant amount of money.

01:37:11 ◼   ► They did get preferential treatment in terms of getting the rate that was there for when

01:37:15 ◼   ► that you know the card present rate as opposed to the card not present rate but

01:37:19 ◼   ► I think that's fair and reasonable that they're saying hey touch ID combined

01:37:23 ◼   ► with the security measures we've taken is the equivalent of card present it's

01:37:28 ◼   ► you know just a little bit more likely that this is not a fraudulent

01:37:31 ◼   ► transaction you know that they're not getting charged the rate that gets

01:37:35 ◼   ► charged when you just read your credit card number to somebody over the phone

01:37:39 ◼   ► which is where you don't get card present because they don't see that you

01:37:42 ◼   ► have the card. It reminds me of that piece you wrote after WWDC called "Only Apple"

01:37:47 ◼   ► because yeah if you think back to when Google tried to do this it's almost like

01:37:52 ◼   ► when they tried to do TV is that they didn't get by and they couldn't get

01:37:54 ◼   ► things past carriers some carriers blocked it some carriers wanted to use

01:37:57 ◼   ► their own because they have their own used to be called Isis I forget what

01:38:00 ◼   ► they renamed it their own solution for these things and they just they just

01:38:03 ◼   ► couldn't get it deployed and Apple because they make everything from the

01:38:07 ◼   ► chip to the secure enclave and the secure I forget what the name for it is

01:38:11 ◼   ► a secure element all the way up to the OS

01:38:14 ◼   ► and to the hardware.

01:38:15 ◼   ► It's better than having the credit card present

01:38:17 ◼   ► because again, I can just drop my NFC card

01:38:19 ◼   ► and someone else can pick it up and go tap things.

01:38:21 ◼   ► There's no password, there's nothing required.

01:38:23 ◼   ► This needs my passcode or my fingerprint

01:38:25 ◼   ► and that I think makes it,

01:38:27 ◼   ► I heard a rumor that it was after Target

01:38:29 ◼   ► and after a lot of the credit card breaches

01:38:31 ◼   ► that the industry started listening to Apple.

01:38:34 ◼   ► They weren't as receptive beforehand.

01:38:36 ◼   ► And I think it's really telling

01:38:37 ◼   ► that they had launch partners,

01:38:38 ◼   ► like they demoed the Target app and the Apple Store app

01:38:41 ◼   ► And it's not just this thing that you can use in registers.

01:38:44 ◼   ► Because again, only Apple, they have the apps,

01:38:47 ◼   ► they made a solution that works on the phone

01:38:49 ◼   ► in physical real world stores, that works online with apps,

01:38:52 ◼   ► and that works based on a physical skin connection

01:38:55 ◼   ► with the watch, and that is a very robust solution.

01:38:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's very, very true.

01:39:01 ◼   ► And like I said, win, win, win.

01:39:05 ◼   ► The retailers are happy to use it,

01:39:07 ◼   ► the banks are happy to use it,

01:39:08 ◼   ► 'cause they seem so confident

01:39:11 ◼   ► that Apple's come up with is going to increase security

01:39:14 ◼   ► and fraud is such a huge time and cost and PR sink

01:39:19 ◼   ► for the banks and for retailers, right?

01:39:23 ◼   ► I mean, the target CEO lost his job

01:39:28 ◼   ► over the debacle that happened to them last year.

01:39:30 ◼   ► It's a real problem.

01:39:32 ◼   ► This seems like, if it works as advertised,

01:39:35 ◼   ► is a completely credible solution.

01:39:39 ◼   ► And so it really is, it's better for every party involved.

01:39:42 ◼   ► Nobody's paying any sort of,

01:39:44 ◼   ► there's no trade-off for anybody.

01:39:46 ◼   ► As opposed to something like,

01:39:47 ◼   ► let's just compare it to the 70/30 split

01:39:51 ◼   ► for on-device content that's sold on the phones.

01:39:56 ◼   ► I think that's, you know,

01:39:57 ◼   ► there's a, you know, years-long argument that,

01:40:01 ◼   ► hey, that's too much, you know,

01:40:03 ◼   ► that Barnes and Noble shouldn't have to spend,

01:40:05 ◼   ► you know, or can't afford 30% margins

01:40:08 ◼   ► because they're paying the same agency model for books that anybody else is.

01:40:15 ◼   ► Should Amazon let Kindle use in-app purchases?

01:40:19 ◼   ► No.

01:40:20 ◼   ► Why don't they?

01:40:21 ◼   ► There are all sorts of arguments to be made there where the 70/30 split, depending on

01:40:25 ◼   ► your perspective, may not be in the interest of whoever is selling the goods.

01:40:29 ◼   ► There's no downside like that with Apple Pay.

01:40:32 ◼   ► It really is better for everybody.

01:40:34 ◼   ► And there was some confusion because some people thought that the 70/30 split would

01:40:38 ◼   ► it would be for example if Amazon like the Amazon app used it not the one for the Kindle

01:40:43 ◼   ► store but for the actual buying goods but the 70/30 was never for physical goods it

01:40:46 ◼   ► was always for the digital distribution goods within apps so they're fine any target everyone

01:40:50 ◼   ► can adopt this and all they're doing is the Apple Pay.

01:40:55 ◼   ► So last segment and I want to keep it short because I don't want to just regurgitate your

01:40:59 ◼   ► excellent excellent iOS 8 review which anybody who's listening to the show if

01:41:03 ◼   ► you haven't put it in the show notes but go read it it is long it is 20,000 words

01:41:08 ◼   ► it is booklet length but it is worth it and it's to me definitive what are the

01:41:16 ◼   ► the things the little things in iOS 8 that you think people are most likely to

01:41:21 ◼   ► overlook like what you know a couple of things that people who listen to the

01:41:25 ◼   ► show maybe think that they're tuned into what's new in iOS 8 they've seen you

01:41:28 ◼   ► know the keynote at WWDC but that are like oh I didn't know about that.

01:41:34 ◼   ► I think there's two. One is really big and some are really small. The really big thing

01:41:38 ◼   ► is because there's names like extensibility and there's all sorts of different things

01:41:42 ◼   ► like widgets and custom actions, custom keyboards, custom sharing items. But when you come down

01:41:48 ◼   ► to it the huge transformation for me between iOS 7 and iOS 8 is that entirely reverse the

01:41:54 ◼   ► before everything was pull if you wanted to do something you had to leave what you were

01:41:58 ◼   ► we're doing, go to another app.

01:42:00 ◼   ► For example, just sending a voice memo,

01:42:01 ◼   ► you had to leave messages, go to the voice memo app,

01:42:04 ◼   ► create a voice memo, bring up the embedded message sheet,

01:42:06 ◼   ► and then use that to send it through messages,

01:42:09 ◼   ► then go back to messages and continue your conversation.

01:42:11 ◼   ► And it was like that for so many things.

01:42:14 ◼   ► If you wanted to share a URL in a non-integrated app

01:42:18 ◼   ► like Google+, you'd have to go to the web, copy the URL.

01:42:21 ◼   ► One password, you had to launch one password,

01:42:23 ◼   ► copy the password, come out.

01:42:24 ◼   ► And now everything, the model is so much more

01:42:26 ◼   ► towards push data where from interactive notifications,

01:42:30 ◼   ► you can keep playing your game, keep watching your movie,

01:42:32 ◼   ► quickly answer a message.

01:42:35 ◼   ► You pull down Notification Center, the widgets right there.

01:42:37 ◼   ► The Android model was always old century to me

01:42:40 ◼   ► because you had to leave, go to the home screen,

01:42:42 ◼   ► page through the home screen, find the widget.

01:42:44 ◼   ► It really didn't save you that much time.

01:42:46 ◼   ► Being in Notification Center saves you so much time.

01:42:49 ◼   ► Storehouse, now you don't have to go to Storehouse

01:42:52 ◼   ► and then open up the image picker and choose images.

01:42:54 ◼   ► You can be in photos, you can use filters in there,

01:42:57 ◼   ► you can use the sharing options.

01:43:00 ◼   ► So many aspects of iOS now bring the stuff to you

01:43:03 ◼   ► where you are, and that is such a fundamental change

01:43:06 ◼   ► to how I'm using my iPhone.

01:43:08 ◼   ► And I think Federico did a great job explaining that too.

01:43:11 ◼   ► I don't wanna call it revolutionary

01:43:13 ◼   ► 'cause I think that's overused,

01:43:15 ◼   ► but just the change in workflow has made it less of a chore.

01:43:18 ◼   ► It's made it much more, it's made the device work for me

01:43:22 ◼   ► much more than it ever has before.

01:43:24 ◼   ► Yeah, it almost, it's like the way that to me that they broke down the Unix, you know,

01:43:35 ◼   ► we're talking 40 year old Unix multitasking model to a lower level with the original iPhone

01:43:44 ◼   ► in 2007 which was you know panned far and wide by people for not supporting multitasking

01:43:55 ◼   ► which was held up by the ignorant as sort of you know like it's sort of a baby OS that

01:44:02 ◼   ► can't do multitasking whereas anybody with any sort of clue would realize well they started

01:44:08 ◼   ► with Mac OS X, which was Unix, they took multitasking out, right? This isn't like Mac OS was back

01:44:16 ◼   ► in the 90s or Palm OS or something like that, where there was a non-multitasking operating

01:44:21 ◼   ► system that grew to a point where they had to add it or glom it on or start over somehow.

01:44:25 ◼   ► Well, not to interrupt you, but that original demo with Steve Jobs when he showed playing

01:44:28 ◼   ► music, the phone rang, the music faded away, he answered the phone, he went into the web,

01:44:32 ◼   ► he went to email, he went... That blew people's minds who knew multitasking at the time.

01:44:36 ◼   ► Right, and there were things that did multitask.

01:44:39 ◼   ► But there were a lot of others that didn't.

01:44:41 ◼   ► And then you'd hit the home button and the app would exit.

01:44:44 ◼   ► And when you relaunched it, it would start all over again.

01:44:48 ◼   ► It was all based on the constraints,

01:44:50 ◼   ► the incredible constraints of the device

01:44:53 ◼   ► with limited RAM and then limited CPU

01:44:56 ◼   ► that's 85 times less powerful

01:44:58 ◼   ► than the one we have in the iPhone 6.

01:45:00 ◼   ► But it was also not just those technical constraints,

01:45:04 ◼   ► but I think it was a reimagining of the user experience

01:45:07 ◼   ► of a personal computer that could,

01:45:09 ◼   ► you'd want to do things like respond to a text message

01:45:13 ◼   ► while you're watching a video.

01:45:15 ◼   ► And that they've built it back up with XPC

01:45:20 ◼   ► in a way that really makes a ton of sense.

01:45:25 ◼   ► And you don't even have to think about it too much

01:45:27 ◼   ► from a user's perspective, right?

01:45:29 ◼   ► It's just there, just, here's a notification from Renee

01:45:32 ◼   ► asking what time the show's gonna start tonight.

01:45:34 ◼   ► And I'm watching a Yankees game.

01:45:36 ◼   ► You just pull it down a little bit and respond right there

01:45:38 ◼   ► and I didn't have to interrupt the video stream.

01:45:40 ◼   ► But at the same time, solves so many problems

01:45:47 ◼   ► from a typical user's perspective of what can happen

01:45:50 ◼   ► with the traditional multitasking,

01:45:53 ◼   ► where everything just gets to run and runs forever of Unix,

01:45:58 ◼   ► where your whole thing can get slowed down

01:46:01 ◼   ► because everything's running in the background unchecked.

01:46:04 ◼   ► And not even to mention the security and privacy issues.

01:46:09 ◼   ► - It's incredibly, or the same thing,

01:46:11 ◼   ► you're on a website and you wanna quickly check the score,

01:46:13 ◼   ► you can just pull down Notification Center

01:46:15 ◼   ► and the score is in there and you just put it back up,

01:46:17 ◼   ► you go right back to where you're doing,

01:46:19 ◼   ► which is a change, the multitasking was great,

01:46:20 ◼   ► you could tap a notification, you go right to the app,

01:46:23 ◼   ► but then to get back to where you were,

01:46:25 ◼   ► you'd have to leave that app, double tap,

01:46:26 ◼   ► if you remember to do that, go back to the fast app picker,

01:46:29 ◼   ► take the app you had,

01:46:30 ◼   ► or if you wanna switch to another app,

01:46:31 ◼   ► it was just, it was not ideal.

01:46:33 ◼   ► And the other advantage too,

01:46:35 ◼   ► like the security, the privacy, that's enormous

01:46:37 ◼   ► because if you're answering a message in the Facebook app,

01:46:39 ◼   ► Facebook has no idea what you're typing

01:46:41 ◼   ► and that is completely separate.

01:46:43 ◼   ► But if, for example,

01:46:44 ◼   ► if you have a Facebook notification in another app

01:46:47 ◼   ► and Facebook is being a memory hog

01:46:49 ◼   ► and Jetsam gets rid of it,

01:46:50 ◼   ► that notification is completely independent.

01:46:52 ◼   ► You'll still be typing your message

01:46:53 ◼   ► or answering your notification.

01:46:55 ◼   ► You'll never even notice what's happening

01:46:56 ◼   ► with the container app in the background.

01:46:58 ◼   ► and that's a huge reliability boon.

01:47:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, maybe the best layman's term way

01:47:03 ◼   ► to think about extensions and these things

01:47:06 ◼   ► is that they really are like mini apps

01:47:08 ◼   ► that run in their own little mini sandbox.

01:47:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it takes an explicit user action

01:47:14 ◼   ► to punch through that, which is a great way of doing it.

01:47:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:47:17 ◼   ► What else?

01:47:19 ◼   ► Anything else that's sort of like easily overlooked,

01:47:21 ◼   ► wow, I can't believe that's sort of,

01:47:25 ◼   ► I didn't know about that.

01:47:26 ◼   ► There's a lot of really nice things.

01:47:28 ◼   ► For example, if you're in Safari and you go to iCloud tabs, you can close iCloud tabs

01:47:33 ◼   ► on other devices from the device that you're using, which is...

01:47:37 ◼   ► I did not know that.

01:47:38 ◼   ► See, now that's why I had you on the show.

01:47:41 ◼   ► That is a feature I've wanted ever since they invented iCloud tabs.

01:47:44 ◼   ► I mean, there's so many things they're filling in.

01:47:45 ◼   ► I also love that you can go to the settings and go to the settings for any app and you

01:47:49 ◼   ► go into them and there's a tab for notifications there and a tab for privacy there.

01:47:54 ◼   ► I don't know how to find that and they made it easy for developers to get to that, but

01:47:58 ◼   ► I just go there and I can see what this has permission for and I can turn them on or turn

01:48:01 ◼   ► them off.

01:48:03 ◼   ► Explain to me, because this is something I'm confused about.

01:48:06 ◼   ► Explain to me user versus remote notifications, which is a new distinction that didn't exist

01:48:11 ◼   ► before and now it does.

01:48:13 ◼   ► So I mean, I'm not a developer, so I needed like a Brent Simmons type explanation for

01:48:17 ◼   ► this, but my understanding is right now you're automatically opted into the remote notifications

01:48:23 ◼   ► And what that does is things like background refresh.

01:48:25 ◼   ► So a developer can send a silent notification in essence

01:48:30 ◼   ► to tell your app that there's new content to download

01:48:32 ◼   ► or there's a new messages or a new timeline to pull in.

01:48:35 ◼   ► And it'll just go and do that in the background.

01:48:37 ◼   ► And you're automatically opted into that.

01:48:39 ◼   ► You can choose to go and opt out of it,

01:48:41 ◼   ► but they just want that to work.

01:48:42 ◼   ► They don't want any confusion.

01:48:43 ◼   ► And that is now separate from the user facing notifications

01:48:47 ◼   ► like a message notification or a reminder

01:48:50 ◼   ► or an invitation or something.

01:48:51 ◼   ► Hmm.

01:48:54 ◼   ► Third party keyboards, have you tried any of them?

01:48:56 ◼   ► Yeah, I've tried several of them.

01:48:58 ◼   ► They work in the same way.

01:49:00 ◼   ► You download an app.

01:49:01 ◼   ► The app, the only problem with the third party keyboards is that they're not as easy to install.

01:49:06 ◼   ► When you download a widget for example, you pull down Notification Center, it tells you

01:49:10 ◼   ► there's a new widget, you tap the edit button, you can add it right there.

01:49:13 ◼   ► The keyboards, they don't tell you there's a new keyboard.

01:49:15 ◼   ► So you can download it, you go to the key, you pull up the keyboard, there's no indicator

01:49:19 ◼   ► that says there's a new keyboard available.

01:49:21 ◼   ► They have to either tell you in the app or you have to know to go to settings, keyboards,

01:49:24 ◼   ► add third party keyboard and then enable it.

01:49:27 ◼   ► And also because the container apps are so small, if you have a really hefty keyboard

01:49:31 ◼   ► with a lot of predictive text engines or something, that has to stay in the container app.

01:49:35 ◼   ► So you have to grant it access.

01:49:37 ◼   ► There's a grant full access button on the keyboards and it has to be able to talk back

01:49:41 ◼   ► and forth with its app to do a lot of the higher level stuff.

01:49:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I have to say that doesn't seem appealing to me at all.

01:49:46 ◼   ► It's a little buggy as well because sometimes it will revert to the wrong keyboard.

01:49:50 ◼   ► It's not perfect yet, but this is extensibility.

01:49:54 ◼   ► I'd say extensibility is 0.9, a verging on 1.0.

01:49:57 ◼   ► There's just so much stuff and it's such a fundamental change

01:49:59 ◼   ► that I can't even imagine how many bugs they're squashing,

01:50:02 ◼   ► even as it's shipping.

01:50:03 ◼   ► - What's your take on QuickType?

01:50:06 ◼   ► QuickType is the new predictive text thing

01:50:08 ◼   ► where it shows a couple of words above the keyboard.

01:50:10 ◼   ► It takes like an extra row of keys above the keyboard

01:50:13 ◼   ► instead of just showing you one suggestion in line

01:50:16 ◼   ► where you're typing.

01:50:17 ◼   ► - I still have to, I've been using it since,

01:50:19 ◼   ► I installed it the first day WWDC I think you laughed at me when I saw you at the bar

01:50:23 ◼   ► later.

01:50:25 ◼   ► I did.

01:50:26 ◼   ► But I like that I like to see where it is almost immediately enforce myself to use it

01:50:28 ◼   ► and I still don't remember to use it because I'm so used to typing the traditional way

01:50:33 ◼   ► on an iPhone.

01:50:34 ◼   ► Yep yep that's exactly me I almost don't have an opinion on it because I don't even look

01:50:38 ◼   ► at it because I just typed the way I've always typed and my habits are so ingrained.

01:50:43 ◼   ► There's two changes to iOS that makes me feel old in a way and one is that there's so many

01:50:47 ◼   ► people especially who use non iOS devices who were used to SwiftKey or

01:50:50 ◼   ► swipe and they really wanted it and Apple's keyboard was outdated in that

01:50:55 ◼   ► regard but also you take something like iMessage and you know as much as we you

01:50:59 ◼   ► know you or me or Guy might tease Ben Thompson about using line and using like

01:51:03 ◼   ► having whole conversations and stickers there's a whole generation of people who

01:51:07 ◼   ► instant messaging is really instant like you touch something and it goes and it

01:51:10 ◼   ► makes me so nervous because Apple's doing that now and for arbitrary

01:51:14 ◼   ► text strings they can't do that because they don't know when you're finished

01:51:16 ◼   ► typing but if you hit like location in the message thing it just goes if you

01:51:20 ◼   ► hit if you if you use that new the radial interface to make a voice message

01:51:24 ◼   ► just slide up it doesn't populate the field and then let you hit send like you

01:51:28 ◼   ► know someone afraid like I would do it just goes so the instance becomes so

01:51:32 ◼   ► fast it does that with the images too when you send an attachment you pick the

01:51:36 ◼   ► image and say use this image and then it just sends the message it doesn't sit

01:51:40 ◼   ► there in the text field as a message waiting for you to hit a second

01:51:43 ◼   ► send button.

01:51:44 ◼   ► And it's also ephemeral now, almost like Snapchat where by default it'll expire in two minutes

01:51:51 ◼   ► unless you say keep it, and then it'll tell the other person your message has been kept

01:51:55 ◼   ► or they've stopped doing it.

01:51:57 ◼   ► They're being very transparent in what's being done and where, and I think that's good.

01:52:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm curious to see how sound bites play out, because I've had it on a beta phone all

01:52:05 ◼   ► summer, but I haven't really had a chance to use it because the sound bites don't really

01:52:08 ◼   ► work unless everybody's on iOS 8.

01:52:11 ◼   ► If you send one to somebody who's still on iOS 7 or on another device, they just get

01:52:15 ◼   ► like an audio file attachment, which they can click and play, but it sounds like you're

01:52:21 ◼   ► giving them a shit sandwich.

01:52:24 ◼   ► You're giving them a doc file instead of just typing out your email.

01:52:28 ◼   ► But with everybody on iOS 8, if your correspondent is on iOS 8, then they can play it.

01:52:34 ◼   ► They can just play it by lifting the phone to their ear.

01:52:36 ◼   ► Yeah, it's great.

01:52:37 ◼   ► On the lock screen, too, Clayton and I were playing with this a little while ago.

01:52:39 ◼   ► send a message and it shows up and it says lift to listen so you pull it up and you listen

01:52:43 ◼   ► to the message and then you can record another message and you put it down and it sends it

01:52:46 ◼   ► and it becomes almost like a walkie talkie just slinging these sound bites back and forth.

01:52:53 ◼   ► The one last thing before I wrap up is and the fast contacts didn't make sense to me

01:53:02 ◼   ► at WWDC. This is now when you go into multitasking. You double tap home and above your multitasking

01:53:09 ◼   ► Windows there's a row of your recent recipients are contacts

01:53:13 ◼   ► Just seemed weird to me like they were just shoving something into empty space

01:53:18 ◼   ► All of a sudden it makes a little bit more sense to me with that communication button on the Apple watch

01:53:23 ◼   ► Because it's the same thing

01:53:26 ◼   ► It's like we're gonna make it really easy to just sort of very quickly no matter what you're currently doing

01:53:31 ◼   ► Somehow communicate with the people who you communicate with most frequently

01:53:38 ◼   ► Both iOS 8 and the watch seemed to be a concerted effort to make logging, authentication, remote control, and communications really work well and work quickly.

01:53:49 ◼   ► There was, in the earlier versions, those contacts were there all the time and I thought, you know, maybe that's not good for privacy if you didn't want everyone glancing at who you were talking to, especially if you had complicated relationships.

01:53:59 ◼   ► You can hide those now, but if you're fine with that, you have both your favorites and

01:54:02 ◼   ► your reasons, and you tap those, and you can instantly FaceTime them, call them, message

01:54:07 ◼   ► them.

01:54:08 ◼   ► Once you get used to it, it's super quick.

01:54:10 ◼   ► We're running up against two-hour, Marc.

01:54:12 ◼   ► We could go on for another two hours, but that's why they make next week's show.

01:54:16 ◼   ► Rene Ritchie at iMore.com.

01:54:18 ◼   ► Do you want to shout out some of your podcasts?

01:54:22 ◼   ► Sure.

01:54:23 ◼   ► I do a podcast called Debug with Guy English.

01:54:25 ◼   ► I do one called iterate with Mark Edwards and Seth Clifford and with our mutual friend Dave whiskus and guy I do

01:54:32 ◼   ► Vector and review too many damn shows. Okay. Remember? Yeah, I wasn't gonna let you list them all

01:54:38 ◼   ► But you can go ahead

01:54:41 ◼   ► No, those are all good friends. And those are all good shows. You're you're I

01:54:46 ◼   ► Feel like back-to-back having Snell and then you I've got the two hardest working podcasters

01:54:52 ◼   ► Who still managed to write thousands of words a week?

01:54:55 ◼   ► week, back to back shows. So I got to have somebody lazy on next week.

01:55:00 ◼   ► I'm so happy about Jason and his new site, Six Colors, and his new podcast upgrade. Because

01:55:06 ◼   ► he's making a lot of content again, and I love the content that he makes.

01:55:09 ◼   ► Yeah. There's just so much. It's so funny because summer can be so slow, and then all

01:55:12 ◼   ► of a sudden so much happens. And it's like the whole Mac world thing and the Snell thing,

01:55:18 ◼   ► we could go on forever. Never even brought up the whole stupid markdown thing from two

01:55:22 ◼   ► weeks ago never even mentioned it you and I hardly have even broached the the

01:55:28 ◼   ► watch it's you know it's too much there's so much to talk about the next

01:55:33 ◼   ► you know by the time we're done talking about it we'll be out there for the next

01:55:35 ◼   ► event in October anyway Renee thank you so much talk to you soon