The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► you ever get the feeling like maybe Yosemite isn't fully baked occasionally

00:00:04 ◼   ► so yeah so i went back in and i futzed with my input volume and i think it's

00:00:10 ◼   ► i think it might have been that i don't know i also restarted and did about 10 other things so i

00:00:14 ◼   ► can't tell exactly and the worst part is you just you just recorded a show two hours ago

00:00:20 ◼   ► and everything exactly yeah i don't know what happened i i i did unplug and plug stuff back

00:00:26 ◼   ► in but that shouldn't happen. I really cannot explain it. Now there's a new Skype 7 out

00:00:34 ◼   ► and I'm definitely afraid to. Oh my god no. You should just like keep one machine in pristine

00:00:40 ◼   ► working condition and never unplug anything or restart it. That's sort of what I do with

00:00:46 ◼   ► my MacBook Air. Like I haven't upgraded it to Yosemite. I'm being like old man conservative

00:00:52 ◼   ► You know, like if it ain't broke,

00:00:54 ◼   ► don't fix it with this machine.

00:00:56 ◼   ► And it's still, you know,

00:00:58 ◼   ► and I don't update new versions of Skype,

00:01:01 ◼   ► and it still gives me problems.

00:01:02 ◼   ► You know, like trying to be real conservative

00:01:04 ◼   ► about what I do with the software

00:01:05 ◼   ► on this particular machine,

00:01:07 ◼   ► it doesn't seem to make a difference.

00:01:10 ◼   ► - I upgrade everything.

00:01:13 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:01:15 ◼   ► I have very little discipline.

00:01:22 ◼   ► - Did you run, so you run, so you have another machine

00:01:23 ◼   ► you ran the beta on and stuff like that?

00:01:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's been very complicated.

00:01:29 ◼   ► It's been complicated the last few months

00:01:30 ◼   ► because I've had, I had from Apple,

00:01:35 ◼   ► and this wasn't just like a special treat

00:01:37 ◼   ► for John Gruber thing, it was,

00:01:39 ◼   ► a lot of us got it.

00:01:43 ◼   ► They gave us review units at WWDC,

00:01:45 ◼   ► like it was a 15 inch MacBook Pro

00:01:47 ◼   ► with Yosemite already installed.

00:01:49 ◼   ► 'Cause they actually wanted us to be, you know,

00:01:51 ◼   ► write about it yeah serious so I had that right yeah he might have he might

00:02:02 ◼   ► have needed he might have needed five but you know they gave him they gave him

00:02:06 ◼   ► an iPhone I don't know if you listen to ATP but he got an iPhone 6 so that he

00:02:14 ◼   ► not to review the iPhone 6 but so he could write about continuity features

00:02:20 ◼   ► which was actually really really awesome that he you know there's a big help to

00:02:24 ◼   ► him you know they've been very helpful at stuff like that but that machine is

00:02:29 ◼   ► gone but now I'm down to two machines I've got a new 13-inch MacBook Pro and

00:02:34 ◼   ► I've already you know I've started life you know I just got it like a month ago

00:02:38 ◼   ► it started on Yosemite it's never seen anything but and in my old MacBook Air I

00:02:42 ◼   ► just keep running minus one I had to get my wife needed a new machine and I had

00:02:47 ◼   ► to make sure I got it before Yosemite came on everything

00:02:50 ◼   ► because she would freak.

00:02:52 ◼   ► - You think so?

00:02:55 ◼   ► - She doesn't like me to change her operating system.

00:02:58 ◼   ► - No?

00:02:59 ◼   ► Oh, we've had this discussion before too,

00:03:01 ◼   ► but she doesn't like it either.

00:03:02 ◼   ► Like you'll walk by like her iPhone or whatever

00:03:04 ◼   ► and like there'll be like a badge,

00:03:06 ◼   ► like on the app store.

00:03:07 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, that.

00:03:08 ◼   ► Oh my God.

00:03:09 ◼   ► - 57 apps.

00:03:10 ◼   ► - Oh my God, that thing.

00:03:11 ◼   ► - Do you update your apps automatically?

00:03:16 ◼   ► Do you have the app store set?

00:03:17 ◼   ► See, I don't have it set to update automatically,

00:03:19 ◼   ► but I do like OCD, like every time there's updates,

00:03:24 ◼   ► I install them.

00:03:25 ◼   ► But the reason I don't do it automatically

00:03:27 ◼   ► is I wanna know when there's new ones

00:03:28 ◼   ► and I like to read the release notes.

00:03:30 ◼   ► - Well, that's probably safer.

00:03:31 ◼   ► - And just in case, you know,

00:03:35 ◼   ► I can't remember the last time that I've had like an app

00:03:40 ◼   ► that I didn't wanna update.

00:03:41 ◼   ► It's been years, you know,

00:03:42 ◼   ► But just in case there's some kind of regression in an app.

00:03:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:50 ◼   ► It happens.

00:03:51 ◼   ► It does definitely happen.

00:03:54 ◼   ► Right, like the equivalent of what they did with pages

00:03:57 ◼   ► and the iWork suite on Mac going from online to whatever

00:04:02 ◼   ► they call the new ones.

00:04:03 ◼   ► Yeah, and basically some of that is just

00:04:05 ◼   ► because of the way the app store worked, the approval process.

00:04:09 ◼   ► Because normally developers would just roll back

00:04:12 ◼   ► something that was you know there was a glitch in it or something and they can't

00:04:16 ◼   ► they can't do that it's got it's you know they have to they have to resubmit

00:04:20 ◼   ► all right yeah complicated you know I noticed on while I'm talking about pages

00:04:26 ◼   ► I my big complaint and the thing that I could not stand about the update to

00:04:31 ◼   ► pages in particular is that for the few things I use word processing for like

00:04:37 ◼   ► for example with sponsors sometimes you know if I send them an invoice I have a

00:04:41 ◼   ► pages template and it's really nice I've got nice typography on it and for years

00:04:46 ◼   ► now maybe even ten years Mac OS X has had wonderful built-in system level

00:04:51 ◼   ► typography so that like an open type font that has small caps and alternate

00:04:59 ◼   ► you know the figures the the old style figures where the numbers drop below the

00:05:04 ◼   ► baseline or sometimes go above the baseline and you can system wide you

00:05:10 ◼   ► You could just open TextEdit, the free text, just the replacement for simple text.

00:05:15 ◼   ► Go to the Fonts panel, open the Typography panel, and you get this wonderful typography

00:05:20 ◼   ► controls.

00:05:21 ◼   ► And my templates were all set up with small caps for certain things and stuff like that.

00:05:26 ◼   ► And pages, the new version of pages last year, the 2013 version, dropped support for all

00:05:31 ◼   ► of that in the name of compatibility with iOS, which doesn't have any of those typography

00:05:37 ◼   ► features anymore.

00:05:39 ◼   ► So I stuck with the pages, like pages in particular, I stuck with the 09 version.

00:05:43 ◼   ► Like numbers, I don't know.

00:05:44 ◼   ► I don't know what the, I'm such a simpleton using a spreadsheet that

00:05:50 ◼   ► I didn't notice anything worse in numbers.

00:05:54 ◼   ► So I used the new version of numbers, but I used the old version of pages.

00:05:57 ◼   ► But I noticed with the latest version of pages, it is so complicated.

00:06:01 ◼   ► They had an update with Yosemite, and

00:06:05 ◼   ► I opened it hoping that the typography stuff was back.

00:06:08 ◼   ► it's not like you create a new document in pages and you have a font that has

00:06:13 ◼   ► true small caps not like the fake you know fakie fake small caps but real

00:06:17 ◼   ► small caps there's no way to turn text into small caps in the new version of

00:06:22 ◼   ► pages but if you open in a pages o9 document in the new version of pages and

00:06:28 ◼   ► you already have small caps it now still supports it it doesn't make it go away

00:06:33 ◼   ► So it and it seems like what you can do it doesn't I I didn't get into it too

00:06:40 ◼   ► deep but it seems like what you can do is you can open a new version in pages

00:06:43 ◼   ► you can switch to text edit and make your text in you know use the advanced

00:06:49 ◼   ► OS X typography features copy and paste it go back to pages and paste and it

00:06:54 ◼   ► works. That's weird. So so it's really really like it it you know it's like it

00:07:00 ◼   ► It seems like they're making some kind of progress on that front, but it's actually

00:07:03 ◼   ► more complicated than it was a year ago when it was just a simple answer, "No, you can't

00:07:08 ◼   ► use those features anymore."

00:07:12 ◼   ► It's like that whole thing they did with iMovie years ago.

00:07:15 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, when they switched from being a sort of very basic, traditional, non-linear

00:07:22 ◼   ► video editor to whatever it was.

00:07:25 ◼   ► Right.

00:07:26 ◼   ► We haven't seen that guy recently.

00:07:29 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a lot of reason. What's that guy's name?

00:07:31 ◼   ► Randy you will us. Yeah, it's Randy still there

00:07:34 ◼   ► You know, I thought he may not be there anymore. That's a very good question

00:07:40 ◼   ► I I heard something about him possibly leaving not like out of any you know that he was in trouble, but sort of

00:07:46 ◼   ► You know that he'd been there he'd been you know

00:07:49 ◼   ► Burned out, you know that you know that

00:07:51 ◼   ► You know just had been there on major major software projects for years and years and he might not be there

00:07:57 ◼   ► I'm not sure it's a good question. Anybody who knows a little birdies

00:08:00 ◼   ► You can tell me and then I'll do it. I'm sure Randy listens to the show

00:08:03 ◼   ► You know, you'd be surprised actually I mean that was half joke but half not joke. All right, I

00:08:09 ◼   ► Actually got a very nice email from somebody at Comcast from the show with my last week

00:08:15 ◼   ► It was actually very very nice email somebody is you know seems to be a true fan of the show and they said that they

00:08:22 ◼   ► Were they were half laughing half crying. Oh, man

00:08:25 ◼   ► the first hour of this show.

00:08:28 ◼   ► They've since been fired.

00:08:31 ◼   ► The ATP guys had a good bit about--

00:08:35 ◼   ► no, he was not the guy.

00:08:36 ◼   ► The guy who I want to hear from is

00:08:38 ◼   ► I want to hear from the guy who made that graphic.

00:08:40 ◼   ► I want to hear the story of how that graphic came.

00:08:47 ◼   ► No, but the ATP guys had a good bit about the way

00:08:51 ◼   ► that the iWorks apps regressed feature-wise,

00:08:54 ◼   ► and comparing and contrast that with Microsoft, which never takes features away. If Word ever

00:09:01 ◼   ► gains advanced typography features, you can bank on it that it's never going to lose them

00:09:06 ◼   ► in the future. The other thing that they brought up, and this to me is so crazy, it's like

00:09:13 ◼   ► I cannot believe that it's true, and I didn't even know it. I actually have it marked to

00:09:18 ◼   ► do more research on it and link it up from Daring Fireball. But apparently, the new version

00:09:22 ◼   ► of at least pages but maybe it's the whole iWorks suite, no longer reads documents, iWorks

00:09:30 ◼   ► documents that are older than the versions created by the 09 versions.

00:09:33 ◼   ► Jared Polin Really?

00:09:34 ◼   ► So, like, yeah.

00:09:36 ◼   ► So like pages, like the oldest pages document you can open now and then current version

00:09:42 ◼   ► of pages is from pages 09.

00:09:44 ◼   ► Anything created with a version of pages earlier than pages 09 will no longer open in pages

00:09:49 ◼   ► which is crazy.

00:09:50 ◼   ► crazy because I was about to delete the old version you know the o9 version

00:09:55 ◼   ► because it puts that stuff in a folder and I was thinking I can just get rid of

00:09:59 ◼   ► that I work o9 folder it's not no no it's crazy or at the very least and it

00:10:05 ◼   ► sounds like such it's such busy work but you really like the sensible idea you

00:10:11 ◼   ► know what you really need to do is find every single I works document that you

00:10:14 ◼   ► have and open it in like if make sure see if you have seriously this is what

00:10:22 ◼   ► you we would have to do what we will have to do is is open up every version

00:10:26 ◼   ► any document we can find that's older than oh nine and make sure it's saved as

00:10:31 ◼   ► oh nine at the very least I'll have to go back I'm sure I've got some someplace

00:10:35 ◼   ► but I don't probably can't find them right now to try it but I will make sure

00:10:40 ◼   ► I'm gonna add a note and put that into show notes and I will have a link where

00:10:44 ◼   ► everybody can do that but I got to write from it from term but it's so crazy and

00:10:47 ◼   ► they you know the ATP can rightly point it out that for that is exactly like

00:10:52 ◼   ► where Microsoft is so great because like you just know I'm like you know that

00:10:58 ◼   ► word today like go by the latest version of Microsoft Word you know it opens a

00:11:04 ◼   ► DOS Word 1.0 document no well you know that it does why would you bet against

00:11:10 ◼   ► I'm not against that at all.

00:11:12 ◼   ► - Right?

00:11:13 ◼   ► - I could probably test that too, actually.

00:11:15 ◼   ► - Right.

00:11:16 ◼   ► Like if you'd set up like a 1984,

00:11:20 ◼   ► like PC running like DOS 2

00:11:23 ◼   ► and like the first version of Microsoft Word for DOS,

00:11:25 ◼   ► I don't even know what,

00:11:26 ◼   ► maybe DOS came out later in 1984,

00:11:29 ◼   ► whatever the first year that DOS had a Microsoft Word,

00:11:33 ◼   ► create a document and save it.

00:11:35 ◼   ► I guarantee you that that document will open

00:11:37 ◼   ► with full fidelity in today's Microsoft Word.

00:11:40 ◼   ► - Did you use Word back in the day?

00:11:45 ◼   ► - No, I was always a Mac write man.

00:11:48 ◼   ► - Oh, okay, Mac write.

00:11:50 ◼   ► - Okay, yeah.

00:11:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, I used Word until, what was it, Word six

00:11:55 ◼   ► where they screwed everything up.

00:11:56 ◼   ► And then I started using Word Perfect.

00:12:00 ◼   ► - On a Mac?

00:12:02 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Really?

00:12:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, my wife and I used Word Perfect for years,

00:12:06 ◼   ► even like long after it had been basically forgotten.

00:12:11 ◼   ► - I don't even know if I ever even used WordPerfect

00:12:14 ◼   ► on the map.

00:12:15 ◼   ► - It was kind of nice and it was pretty,

00:12:17 ◼   ► I guess the thing was it was always popular.

00:12:19 ◼   ► WordPerfect was huge in the legal community, I think,

00:12:23 ◼   ► if I remember correctly for some reason.

00:12:25 ◼   ► And then Word was like everywhere else.

00:12:28 ◼   ► And yeah, it was a big problem for a lot of,

00:12:33 ◼   ► I think and that's kind of what drove a lot of people

00:12:36 ◼   ► to switch to PCs because it's like they were using Word

00:12:41 ◼   ► and they had to switch to Word anyway.

00:12:43 ◼   ► And so they're using Word Perfect

00:12:45 ◼   ► and they had to switch to on a Mac

00:12:46 ◼   ► and they had to switch to Word anyway.

00:12:48 ◼   ► And so they're like, well, I might as well just switch.

00:12:51 ◼   ► I gotta buy a license.

00:12:52 ◼   ► So I'm just gonna go buy a PC.

00:12:55 ◼   ► - One thing from that era was that there were no demos

00:12:59 ◼   ► for commercial software

00:13:01 ◼   ► and the commercial software was very expensive.

00:13:04 ◼   ► So your only options were to pirate it

00:13:07 ◼   ► or spend a significant amount of money.

00:13:09 ◼   ► Like probably, I'm guessing like a WordPerfect for Mac

00:13:14 ◼   ► was probably like $149.

00:13:17 ◼   ► - Oh, that was like the student license.

00:13:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, maybe even $199.

00:13:22 ◼   ► - They were really expensive.

00:13:24 ◼   ► - That's like $1990, which is,

00:13:28 ◼   ► it's long enough ago that inflation has some--

00:13:32 ◼   ► We were still using the gold standard back then.

00:13:37 ◼   ► You could take that dollar and exchange it for gold with the government.

00:13:43 ◼   ► No, I was always a MacRight man.

00:13:47 ◼   ► Part of it maybe was just that I don't think I had to pay for it.

00:13:49 ◼   ► I think because at Drexel, we had like a university-wide site license for everything from Claris.

00:13:56 ◼   ► You could just go to the student center and at least my first couple of years, like the

00:14:02 ◼   ► early 90s, like 91, 92, you'd go to the student center with blank floppies and there was a

00:14:07 ◼   ► machine where you would just put them in and it would one by one, you'd say, "I want the

00:14:13 ◼   ► whole Claris suite."

00:14:14 ◼   ► I forget what else they had, but it was like MacWrite and something else.

00:14:20 ◼   ► We had Excel though because there wasn't a Claris spreadsheet at the time and we had

00:14:25 ◼   ► university-wide site license for Excel too and you would just go there with you

00:14:29 ◼   ► know you all you had to do is bring your own floppies and you bring your own

00:14:32 ◼   ► floppies and you'd get like officially licensed install disks for Excel and Mac

00:14:37 ◼   ► right you know I always like my current I can remember not getting getting

00:14:43 ◼   ► unofficially licensed shop onto a floppy disk yeah it's crazy that it is

00:14:54 ◼   ► is absolutely crazy which was like 1.44 megabytes if it was double density high

00:14:59 ◼   ► density right there was like the original floppy okay you know that now

00:15:07 ◼   ► there were 400 K one Syracuse a Syracuse it always dings me on this because I've

00:15:12 ◼   ► whenever we go retro on this show I always say that they started at 800 but

00:15:16 ◼   ► No, like 1984's Max had 400k 3.5 inch floppies and then the 800 was for a while.

00:15:26 ◼   ► So that was a middle step.

00:15:27 ◼   ► I think the 800 were called double density and then high density.

00:15:31 ◼   ► The 1.4, high density.

00:15:34 ◼   ► Ran out of numbers.

00:15:35 ◼   ► Remember you could take a double density, the 800k one, and if you punched a hole in

00:15:41 ◼   ► the corner you could it that the floppy drive would treat it as a high-density

00:15:47 ◼   ► what yeah because there was like two for backwards compatibility the way that

00:15:53 ◼   ► they did it was the high-density the ones that were you know 1.4 megabyte

00:16:00 ◼   ► capacity were the exact same form factor as the 800k ones so you could put it in

00:16:05 ◼   ► the same drive but the way the drive would recognize that it was high-density

00:16:09 ◼   ► is that the high density ones had a hole in the corner.

00:16:14 ◼   ► And if you took like it was that people may I don't know if you could just use a hole

00:16:19 ◼   ► punch but there was like a thing that people made you could buy that you would you would

00:16:22 ◼   ► punch a hole in an 800k disc and then the drive would treat it as a high density one

00:16:29 ◼   ► even though like the manufacturer hadn't like made it for that like that's how loose and

00:16:34 ◼   ► loosey-goosey we were with our data back then. Needless to say those floppies

00:16:41 ◼   ► sometimes had a little bit of a problem. No, that's how the world worked

00:16:46 ◼   ► back then. And you could fit, you had to be able to fit an app on one disk. I

00:16:50 ◼   ► guess you could, there were installers for bigger software where the

00:16:55 ◼   ► software would run across multiple disks and it would be like a zip file or the

00:17:01 ◼   ► Equivalent that was spread across multiple. Yeah, right. Yeah. I remember that. I remember that you could you could use store

00:17:08 ◼   ► you could use stuff it to

00:17:10 ◼   ► spread them across multiple

00:17:12 ◼   ► Disks I had this is a dumb story, but I'm gonna tell it anyway

00:17:16 ◼   ► I found my so I my son loves playing with the old computers. They've got lying around cuz like, you know cuz I'm a hoarder and

00:17:22 ◼   ► There we have got I we still got a perform a 6400 and we came we were down in the basement

00:17:29 ◼   ► We came across a box full of zip disks and he's like oh, it's like what are these?

00:17:33 ◼   ► I'll just we should try these and so so we went through this ridiculous process because so I was like, okay

00:17:39 ◼   ► We'll get the zip I still have the zip drive. So we get the zip drive out and plug it into the

00:17:43 ◼   ► 6400 we start the 6400 up and

00:17:47 ◼   ► There's a password on it and I can't remember what the password is. And so, okay, that's fine

00:17:53 ◼   ► There's a way around that and the way is like if you boot off of something else you can get

00:17:58 ◼   ► You can get in and just delete. This is the high security on OS 9. She could just delete a file in the in the

00:18:05 ◼   ► In the systems the preferences folder go into the system folder go to the preferences folder

00:18:11 ◼   ► You just delete a file and then restart that's fine, but you got to start with something else

00:18:14 ◼   ► Well that model won't start off a floppy disk so you have to start off a CD drive

00:18:18 ◼   ► Well the CD drive was broken in the 6400

00:18:22 ◼   ► so

00:18:24 ◼   ► You know and I don't know why I get this compulsion to do this, but I'm like I got to solve this problem now

00:18:28 ◼   ► It's like not only do I have to solve this problem. I gotta stay up late solving this problem

00:18:33 ◼   ► So I pull the drive the hard drive

00:18:36 ◼   ► 6400 and I take it up and I put it in my my power Mac my g4 power Mac

00:18:43 ◼   ► As an extra drive start up delete the file

00:18:46 ◼   ► take it back down put it back in the 6400 and

00:18:50 ◼   ► And as I'm putting it back in the 6400

00:18:53 ◼   ► and reconnecting everything,

00:18:54 ◼   ► I have the zip drive sitting on top of the 6400

00:18:59 ◼   ► and just down in the basement where there's cement floor

00:19:02 ◼   ► and I knock the zip drive off and I break the zip drive.

00:19:05 ◼   ► I went through this huge process and in the end,

00:19:09 ◼   ► I destroyed the thing that I was trying

00:19:11 ◼   ► to connect to the Mac.

00:19:12 ◼   ► - So you bought the zip drive?

00:19:16 ◼   ► - Well, now I'm looking at new zip drives.

00:19:19 ◼   ► So I'm in the market for a new zip drive.

00:19:21 ◼   ► Now, I did look on eBay and it's like 15, 20 bucks

00:19:26 ◼   ► to get an old zip drive and I was like, what am I doing?

00:19:29 ◼   ► At the point where it actually came to shelling out money.

00:19:31 ◼   ► My time is worthless, but my money is not.

00:19:34 ◼   ► (both laughing)

00:19:36 ◼   ► - Exactly, like you easily burned 10 times that in time.

00:19:41 ◼   ► You easily burned hundreds of dollars worth of hours.

00:19:46 ◼   ► Like imagine if somebody commissioned you

00:19:50 ◼   ► to write an article that would take that long

00:19:52 ◼   ► and then they said, and it pays $15.

00:19:55 ◼   ► You'd be like, no, no thank you.

00:19:57 ◼   ► Right, but when it came time to actually give somebody

00:20:00 ◼   ► 15 bucks for an old zip drive, it was like,

00:20:02 ◼   ► oh man, no way am I wasting money on that.

00:20:04 ◼   ► - So I actually had caused to use Word recently,

00:20:09 ◼   ► speaking of the price of Word and being able to get

00:20:15 ◼   ► license because you could just get it like an office 360 license for

00:20:18 ◼   ► You can pay but pay by the month and it's like seven bucks a month or something like that

00:20:23 ◼   ► for just the regular

00:20:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean so there's no for the Mac version. There's no like enterprise stuff. There's no access

00:20:30 ◼   ► that I saw that that this week and that they you know the news, you know

00:20:36 ◼   ► The big news story this week from Microsoft was I mean, I don't know if it was within the last week

00:20:41 ◼   ► But that they've made the the mobile versions of the office apps

00:20:46 ◼   ► free to use like pretty much

00:20:49 ◼   ► No, sir the basic functionality of it. Yes, but it's read, you know read read write

00:20:56 ◼   ► Yeah, like they I think before it was like you could read documents, but you couldn't write them

00:20:59 ◼   ► And now you can edit them and you can't do track changes

00:21:04 ◼   ► And probably a couple letter. I mean, I'm sure there's some other stuff but the big one

00:21:08 ◼   ► I think that people often use as track changes and right you have to pay for a license for

00:21:13 ◼   ► And that's and they came out with Android versions - oh is that we missed that part of that story that's interesting

00:21:20 ◼   ► Uh, I think so. I mean, I mean, I think they definitely and said that they were going to do that

00:21:27 ◼   ► and

00:21:29 ◼   ► There was some there was somebody I saw somebody retweeted. Yeah, okay an executive from Google saying can't wait to see the versions for Android

00:21:37 ◼   ► Yeah, Microsoft Office Mobile is the official Office companion optimized for your Android

00:21:43 ◼   ► phone.

00:21:44 ◼   ► You can access, view, and edit your Microsoft Word, Excel, and I'm guessing it's ..

00:21:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:50 ◼   ► Yeah, they have Android versions.

00:21:54 ◼   ► It seems, you know, that – and again, you know, with Microsoft, it's like almost the

00:22:01 ◼   ► same boat as with Apple with, you know, what would they have done if the old CEO was still

00:22:06 ◼   ► except you know balmer isn't dead but it does seem though but this it does seem

00:22:11 ◼   ► though that this is a balmer had to go for this now yeah type of thing like and

00:22:19 ◼   ► and it makes you wonder how different Microsoft's position in mobile might have

00:22:25 ◼   ► been if they had done years ago right like what if they had done it in 2009 at

00:22:33 ◼   ► least for iOS because let's face it but in 2009 Android wasn't good as a platform wasn't

00:22:39 ◼   ► good enough for stuff like office but if at least for the iPhone they had done it then

00:22:47 ◼   ► and then in 2010 when the iPad came out they would have already been on iOS and that could

00:22:52 ◼   ► have you know if the iPad had debuted in a world where there's already a functional Microsoft

00:23:00 ◼   ► Office Suite, that could have really changed their status overall in the post PC world.

00:23:09 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm just wondering if it really, with so much, I mean, because the Office products

00:23:14 ◼   ► aren't really tied into the way that people work as much as they used to be.

00:23:23 ◼   ► So much of our things that we produce are for the web, and Office apps are not, applications

00:23:30 ◼   ► are not really used for web production.

00:23:33 ◼   ► Well for us that's true, and I suspect it's true for a lot of the people who listen to

00:23:38 ◼   ► like our shows, but my test for what goes on in the real world is always the snooping

00:23:44 ◼   ► I do in airports, you know, not snooping, but you know, looking over, what's this guy,

00:23:49 ◼   ► You know, as I go to the bathroom on the plane, just look at what's on people's screens.

00:23:53 ◼   ► That's what I do.

00:23:55 ◼   ► And I've noticed a lot.

00:23:57 ◼   ► I've mentioned this before, but I see it over and over again.

00:23:59 ◼   ► I noticed a lot of business people who, you know, just judging by their attire and judging

00:24:04 ◼   ► by the fact that they have PCs and that a lot of times I see PowerPoint and Excel.

00:24:12 ◼   ► I see an awful lot of Excel.

00:24:13 ◼   ► and I also see a lot of Outlook email,

00:24:17 ◼   ► like Windows Outlook.

00:24:19 ◼   ► And then I see them an hour and a half into the flight,

00:24:25 ◼   ► they fold up the laptop and then they take out an iPad

00:24:29 ◼   ► for the rest of the flight.

00:24:30 ◼   ► I see it over and over and over again.

00:24:33 ◼   ► Right, it's like they wanna get caught up on their email

00:24:37 ◼   ► or they're working on a thing in Excel

00:24:40 ◼   ► and as soon as they're done with it,

00:24:42 ◼   ► For you know when it's time to like relax they go to an iPad. Yeah, you sure they're not just popping the keyboard off their surface

00:24:49 ◼   ► You know what it's funny I

00:24:53 ◼   ► We can make fun of the surface, but I've seen more and more of them in the world

00:24:58 ◼   ► I haven't definitely am it's no longer a fluke

00:25:00 ◼   ► Well, I don't think it's selling great, but it's not it's not as

00:25:04 ◼   ► All right much. It's not quite a punch line. Yes to be

00:25:09 ◼   ► It's I see more of them than I see people using Windows phones

00:25:13 ◼   ► And again, maybe I'm now maybe it's just easier to notice because people if I see someone using a surface

00:25:19 ◼   ► it's pretty easy to identify it as a surface and

00:25:22 ◼   ► It's it's kind of hard to tell what phone somebody's using right? You can usually tell iPhone right phone

00:25:29 ◼   ► Right from the back without seeing the screen. It's you can usually tell iPhone or not iPhone

00:25:34 ◼   ► But if it's a not iPhone who the hell knows what it is

00:25:37 ◼   ► Unless you can see the screen but on the other hand if you can see the screen Windows Phone is so distinctive

00:25:42 ◼   ► Ui-wise, I think it's pretty easy. Yeah

00:25:45 ◼   ► And I don't see many of them I see a lot more surface. Yep tablets

00:25:50 ◼   ► Did you see the whole thing where?

00:25:53 ◼   ► Where the the election night the CNN anchors were

00:25:58 ◼   ► Were paid to use surfaces have and then right just sort of like pretty much exactly like they've done with the NFL

00:26:07 ◼   ► all for like a year or two where every they've they've like carpet bombed the

00:26:13 ◼   ► all the NFL studio teams you know like where they let's go back halftime let's

00:26:19 ◼   ► get here the halftime report and everybody in the studio has a surface in

00:26:23 ◼   ► front of them well on it and CNN shots where you could tell that they're their

00:26:29 ◼   ► surfaces were being used to pop up an iPad it's so stand everybody loves the

00:26:36 ◼   ► kickstand. Right. Makes a great stand for your iPad. I really do mean this. I think

00:26:42 ◼   ► as like a marketing move that's actually worse. It was overall the overall net effect of that

00:26:49 ◼   ► campaign that was actually worse. Because I think there were more people who noticed

00:26:54 ◼   ► you know who caught on to the you know they were actually propping up iPads angle than

00:26:58 ◼   ► who noticed you know from TV like hey it looks like a Microsoft Surface. It's actually worse.

00:27:06 ◼   ► I think it actually hurts their efforts

00:27:08 ◼   ► 'cause it makes it seem like their product's a joke.

00:27:11 ◼   ► - I'm actually in the, I might be in the market for a PC

00:27:16 ◼   ► 'cause my son who likes to play games

00:27:19 ◼   ► and has most of his buddies are PC users.

00:27:23 ◼   ► He's got like this identification thing now

00:27:25 ◼   ► where he wants to get a PC.

00:27:28 ◼   ► And it's like some of the Minecraft stuff

00:27:32 ◼   ► is actually a little bit easier to manage

00:27:35 ◼   ► because some of the on a PC because the installers are specific installers that are written for

00:27:41 ◼   ► Windows instead of other clients and where they're less they're more generic on the Mac and Linux.

00:27:49 ◼   ► So so the it's an it's a weird problem to have to be in this in that market because

00:27:57 ◼   ► I can't figure out what I mean I have no idea what to get like trying to find a laptop a Windows

00:28:04 ◼   ► laptop that is you know with my with my Mac standard it's really difficult

00:28:10 ◼   ► there's nothing of the same quality at least not in the same kind of price

00:28:16 ◼   ► range most of the stuff is plastic and the higher-end stuff like there's the

00:28:22 ◼   ► razor blade is supposed to be a great gaming laptop PC but he wants a laptop

00:28:28 ◼   ► yeah well I think he should have a laptop yeah he'd like to yeah I mean he

00:28:33 ◼   ► moves around a lot and and you know you'd like to take it with him when we

00:28:38 ◼   ► travel and stuff like that so but the razor blade starts at like 1900 bucks

00:28:43 ◼   ► and I'm not gonna give you know he's gonna spill like a like a $1,900 $1,900

00:28:49 ◼   ► for start starting price for a razor blade yeah it's a nice looking computer

00:28:54 ◼   ► I mean it's like it's like a black you know it looks like a I say that I I just

00:28:59 ◼   ► realized that I said that like I was totally offended and I just I just blew

00:29:02 ◼   ► I just blew like thirty five hundred dollars on my my MacBook Pro

00:29:06 ◼   ► Which I didn't blink at because I know that it's an excellent machine and it's made of aluminum and as an SSD and a retina

00:29:13 ◼   ► Screen and it's from Apple and it's really nice and I just assumed that the nicest PC there is couldn't possibly

00:29:18 ◼   ► I realized that's that that was a very

00:29:22 ◼   ► biased

00:29:25 ◼   ► No, I can totally you know, you don't buy a ten-year-old

00:29:28 ◼   ► No, I'm not buying a 19 or a laptop and then the other ones are the alien the alienwares are supposedly decent gaming laptops

00:29:35 ◼   ► but they start 11 like $1,100 and

00:29:38 ◼   ► I don't know they're big clunky, you know there

00:29:42 ◼   ► So it wouldn't you know, I'm not sure if this is this experiment is going to take or not

00:29:48 ◼   ► Do you you don't think though that?

00:29:53 ◼   ► What's it called when you reboot a Mac into Windows boot camp boot camp is not the solution

00:29:59 ◼   ► Well, he needs a new machine because he's using an old he's using my old MacBook Pro, which is like a 2010

00:30:06 ◼   ► Alright, and he's you know, he's banged it up pretty

00:30:10 ◼   ► Well, and the truth is I mean I I mean among you know, there's what there's video editing

00:30:18 ◼   ► I mean, there's a few things that that work wise really push a machine these days

00:30:21 ◼   ► But gaming it's always going to be at

00:30:24 ◼   ► Always I mean until the end of our lives. It's gonna you know, there's never gonna be

00:30:28 ◼   ► a

00:30:30 ◼   ► decrease in pushing the limits of computing, you know and then gain, you know, a four-year-old computer in the gaming world is ancient

00:30:38 ◼   ► combine that with the fact that

00:30:40 ◼   ► MacBooks aren't exactly known for being optimized for gaming in the first place when they're brand new and you can really you know

00:30:46 ◼   ► I can see how it's a problem. Yeah, I mean so I could get you know, I could get like a

00:30:51 ◼   ► dollar Lenovo that has a nice video card in it. I mean the thing is made out of

00:30:58 ◼   ► plastic the outside is terrible but it comes with 8 gigs of RAM and it's got a

00:31:03 ◼   ► good video card in it. Well hold that thought let's come back to this. Yeah.

00:31:07 ◼   ► Take a break and thank our first sponsor but we'll come back to this because it

00:31:09 ◼   ► ties into something else. It's Lenovo. It's our good friends at Squarespace. Now

00:31:16 ◼   ► Now, you guys know Squarespace.

00:31:18 ◼   ► It's a great way to build your own website.

00:31:21 ◼   ► I just think back to what it was like

00:31:23 ◼   ► before things like Squarespace existed,

00:31:26 ◼   ► where if you wanted to start a new website

00:31:28 ◼   ► and you had to start in something like BBEdit

00:31:31 ◼   ► with new document, and that's where you're starting from,

00:31:36 ◼   ► it was daunting.

00:31:37 ◼   ► And you'd only start a new website

00:31:39 ◼   ► if you really wanted to devote a lot of time

00:31:41 ◼   ► to just getting it off the ground.

00:31:43 ◼   ► Whereas with Squarespace, if you have an idea for a new website, you can actually have the

00:31:49 ◼   ► website up and running in minutes instead of days.

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00:31:58 ◼   ► Now, they've been around for a while.

00:32:00 ◼   ► They've been sponsoring this show and other shows for a while.

00:32:02 ◼   ► I know you've heard about them.

00:32:04 ◼   ► But they've just launched what they're calling Squarespace 7.

00:32:08 ◼   ► you can go to squarespace.com/7, S-E-V-E-N, spell it out,

00:32:13 ◼   ► for more information on the stuff that's new.

00:32:17 ◼   ► But the key points, they've got a redesigned

00:32:19 ◼   ► Squarespace 7 interface, and it's really, really nice.

00:32:22 ◼   ► I think their old interface was nice,

00:32:23 ◼   ► but the new one is even better.

00:32:25 ◼   ► Integration with Google Apps, which is huge

00:32:30 ◼   ► for a lot of places that are all in on Google Apps.

00:32:34 ◼   ► They have a partnership with Getty Images,

00:32:37 ◼   ► So it's a lot easier.

00:32:39 ◼   ► It's just built right into this Squarespace system

00:32:41 ◼   ► to get stock photography and stock illustration for stuff.

00:32:46 ◼   ► New templates, they have cover pages now,

00:32:50 ◼   ► and a whole bunch more.

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00:33:00 ◼   ► The templates are just top notch,

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00:33:11 ◼   ► They don't offer telephone support

00:33:14 ◼   ► because who wants to talk on the phone?

00:33:16 ◼   ► Nobody.

00:33:17 ◼   ► To me, they actually advertise it as a feature and I agree.

00:33:22 ◼   ► If you wanna talk live, they've got live chat.

00:33:24 ◼   ► If you want email, they've got email.

00:33:25 ◼   ► And they're 24/7, 365 days a year.

00:33:29 ◼   ► You can always get in touch with them.

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00:34:53 ◼   ► All right, so to me, your story about not knowing

00:34:59 ◼   ► what to get for Hank for a PC is,

00:35:04 ◼   ► I feel the exact same way and I feel like it's just one of those, it's a chasm between

00:35:11 ◼   ► Apple people and PC people that's only widened over the years.

00:35:16 ◼   ► Because to me, one of the great things about being all in on the Apple platform is that

00:35:20 ◼   ► it's so easy to know what the best thing to get is.

00:35:23 ◼   ► Right.

00:35:24 ◼   ► You know, if I want the best iPad, I know to get the iPad Air 2 and, you know, just

00:35:29 ◼   ► decide which color I want and whether I want cellular and you know how much

00:35:34 ◼   ► storage I want and that's it. Whereas if I want the best Android tablet who knows

00:35:38 ◼   ► what it is if I want the best Windows gaming PC who knows.

00:35:42 ◼   ► Yeah I mean there's there's some like I said there's a few manufacturers that

00:35:48 ◼   ► specialize in that kind of thing and but you know you go to go to Lenovo site too

00:35:54 ◼   ► and I mean any kind of leaning towards Lenovo just because I don't know I mean

00:35:59 ◼   ► and they've heard that they're okay as opposed to some of the rest of them.

00:36:03 ◼   ► It seems like a lot of the other ones really have decreased in quality over the years.

00:36:06 ◼   ► And a bunch of people have gone out of business and people got bought.

00:36:11 ◼   ► And the dizzying array of options that you're presented with for just laptops on just Lenovo's

00:36:20 ◼   ► site is ridiculous.

00:36:22 ◼   ► I can't make heads or tails on any of this stuff.

00:36:26 ◼   ► there's a section for there is a you know, there's like, it's

00:36:30 ◼   ► like a matrix. It's like a product matrix of different

00:36:33 ◼   ► numbers. And within those numbers, they'll say one's good

00:36:37 ◼   ► for home and good ones good for gaming once good for business.

00:36:41 ◼   ► But I don't know. But then you have to basically like navigate

00:36:45 ◼   ► through those numbers and like, that doesn't make any sense to

00:36:48 ◼   ► me, though. Yeah. I mean, gaming is to me either. Gaming is the

00:36:51 ◼   ► only one that makes sense to me because gaming means it's going

00:36:54 ◼   ► to have high-powered graphics.

00:36:57 ◼   ► If they're being honest and saying this one's good for gaming, it means it's good graphics.

00:37:04 ◼   ► Or at least gaming optimized graphics.

00:37:09 ◼   ► You could have...

00:37:11 ◼   ► Like a Mac Pro might have very powerful graphics, but it's probably more...

00:37:15 ◼   ► The drivers are more optimized towards professional applications than gaming.

00:37:20 ◼   ► Whereas a gaming PC, you know what it means.

00:37:23 ◼   ► Set up for all the stuff on Steam to be optimized, you know, right, right

00:37:27 ◼   ► But what's the difference in a machine that's good for home and good for business?

00:37:31 ◼   ► I mean, I guess that home is mostly just considered email and web surfing

00:37:35 ◼   ► And why this I don't know and business and I always get the sense that businesses somebody else is paying for this

00:37:42 ◼   ► So this is a more expensive computer see I don't know I kind of feel like it's such an artificial

00:37:49 ◼   ► distinction that it dates back to the you know, like

00:37:53 ◼   ► back to when we were talking with like word 5 and Ward 6 like 1989 and 90 when like

00:37:58 ◼   ► Business would want like a networking card

00:38:01 ◼   ► like when it was a card that you actually had to install in the back of the computer so you could plug Ethernet in or

00:38:06 ◼   ► Something like that and an Ethernet card was a couple hundred bucks and it was expensive and there's no way you'd want that at home

00:38:12 ◼   ► Because nobody had Ethernet at home. Yeah, and so there were you know, like

00:38:17 ◼   ► physical differences between what you'd want in a business environment than a home environment whereas

00:38:22 ◼   ► Because it's a distinction that's meaningless today.

00:38:26 ◼   ► I mean, there's a reason why Apple doesn't have business versus home distinctions in

00:38:30 ◼   ► any of their products.

00:38:32 ◼   ► Right?

00:38:33 ◼   ► There's no business iPhone and home iPhone.

00:38:37 ◼   ► And in fact, it's the fact that they didn't do that and they don't have any such distinctions

00:38:42 ◼   ► is what's driven this whole, I think, revolutionary bring your own device to work thing that's

00:38:50 ◼   ► really gotten and you know gaining momentum in like the biggest and most

00:38:55 ◼   ► buttoned up corporate environments yeah I really think I mean that whole good

00:39:00 ◼   ► better best thing that they did rounds 2000 right was that that's now I think

00:39:07 ◼   ► it was even earlier okay so maybe it started earlier and that went like up

00:39:11 ◼   ► to like 2003 or something like that and then they think they started dropping it

00:39:15 ◼   ► was brilliant and I think they should I frankly think they should still do that

00:39:19 ◼   ► I think they do internally but it's it's a little bit blurrier, you know, it's yeah

00:39:26 ◼   ► Well, and the other thing they did was well they had good better and best

00:39:32 ◼   ► but then where they had just had the simple four-way product matrix of

00:39:35 ◼   ► pro not pro

00:39:39 ◼   ► Portable not portable, you know, right and there was so there was the not pro portable was the iBook and the pro

00:39:47 ◼   ► portable was the MacBook or I guess it was the power book then you know iMac

00:39:52 ◼   ► was the not Pro desktop and the power Mac power Mac I was gonna say Mac Pro

00:39:59 ◼   ► right power Mac was the pro desktop and that was it and then within each one

00:40:03 ◼   ► there was good better best yeah so it's a little bit more complicated now but

00:40:08 ◼   ► not too much I don't think it's gonna be really come I have no idea what they're

00:40:12 ◼   ► you're gonna do next year with the iPhone.

00:40:13 ◼   ► - Well, shelf that, 'cause I think

00:40:17 ◼   ► that's a deep conversation. - That is a deep one, yeah.

00:40:19 ◼   ► - I think we should return to it,

00:40:22 ◼   ► but I don't think it's hard to go in

00:40:24 ◼   ► and buy a MacBook today.

00:40:25 ◼   ► I think, you know, what would you rather do?

00:40:29 ◼   ► Would you rather pay?

00:40:30 ◼   ► I think it'll get more complex, maybe more complex

00:40:33 ◼   ► if the rumored retina MacBook Airs are coming as, you know,

00:40:38 ◼   ► like in the early months of next year,

00:40:41 ◼   ► which I think is probably true.

00:40:43 ◼   ► I think if the iMac has gone retina,

00:40:46 ◼   ► I think the MacBook Air is probably next.

00:40:49 ◼   ► And I think suddenly that becomes

00:40:51 ◼   ► a little tougher decision to make.

00:40:53 ◼   ► - But that's a transition.

00:40:54 ◼   ► - Right.

00:40:55 ◼   ► And if anything, it's only gonna steer more people

00:40:57 ◼   ► towards spending a little less

00:40:58 ◼   ► and getting the retina MacBook Air

00:41:01 ◼   ► instead of a retina MacBook, 13 inch MacBook Pro.

00:41:05 ◼   ► Which I think would save people money

00:41:09 ◼   ► instead of making people pay more.

00:41:11 ◼   ► - Right.

00:41:11 ◼   ► - But it's still, right now today though,

00:41:13 ◼   ► it's a very easy decision.

00:41:14 ◼   ► It's like, do you want the really nice machine

00:41:17 ◼   ► and yeah, it's gonna be a little thicker and heavier

00:41:19 ◼   ► or do you want the cheaper, lighter one, which is the Air?

00:41:23 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:41:24 ◼   ► It was pretty easy.

00:41:27 ◼   ► I mean, knowing the, getting my wife a machine

00:41:29 ◼   ► was actually relatively simple

00:41:32 ◼   ► because she's got a monitor, she's got an external monitor.

00:41:36 ◼   ► So she didn't need a huge screen.

00:41:37 ◼   ► So 10 inch and definitely the air obviously.

00:41:42 ◼   ► And then it was just storage space

00:41:46 ◼   ► and she's got a fairly big iPhoto library.

00:41:48 ◼   ► So she needed, she couldn't take the 128 gig hard drive.

00:41:53 ◼   ► And I was, I think, okay, if you wanna get a machine now,

00:41:58 ◼   ► it really makes sense to get eight gigs of RAM

00:41:59 ◼   ► instead of four.

00:42:00 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:42:01 ◼   ► - And so that was it.

00:42:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's it, yeah.

00:42:05 ◼   ► There are no other, no other really,

00:42:06 ◼   ► no really any other considerations whatsoever.

00:42:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I'm not, you know,

00:42:11 ◼   ► and I'm sure that on the flip side,

00:42:12 ◼   ► it's like what drives, like this conversation of what,

00:42:15 ◼   ► how great it is that we don't have too many choices to make

00:42:18 ◼   ► is exactly what drives PC--

00:42:19 ◼   ► - Sure.

00:42:20 ◼   ► - PC fans nuts, and they think that--

00:42:23 ◼   ► - And Android fans.

00:42:25 ◼   ► - Right, well, 'cause I think they're the same people,

00:42:27 ◼   ► you know, I think that, you know,

00:42:29 ◼   ► the people who most like the fact

00:42:31 ◼   ► that they can configure, can build,

00:42:34 ◼   ► can still build their own PCs for the desktop,

00:42:36 ◼   ► are the sort of people who think it's wonderful

00:42:41 ◼   ► that there are so many Android phones to choose from.

00:42:44 ◼   ► My thing was that I'm seriously thinking about,

00:42:49 ◼   ► like in the next couple of weeks,

00:42:50 ◼   ► probably like maybe like for the month of December,

00:42:54 ◼   ► to try, I haven't done it in like two years,

00:42:56 ◼   ► is give Android a shot and try living for two weeks

00:42:59 ◼   ► with an Android phone.

00:43:02 ◼   ► And so I asked around, I was waiting for the Nexus 6 to ship,

00:43:05 ◼   ► which I almost certainly knew I wasn't going to want

00:43:07 ◼   ► because it's so huge.

00:43:09 ◼   ► But it came out and the reviews came out yesterday

00:43:13 ◼   ► and a lot of them are really, really bad.

00:43:16 ◼   ► Josh Topolsky had pictures from it

00:43:19 ◼   ► and he thinks the camera is actually worse

00:43:22 ◼   ► than last year's Nexus 5 and both of them are way worse

00:43:24 ◼   ► than the iPhone camera, low light.

00:43:27 ◼   ► It's a really shitty camera.

00:43:29 ◼   ► And that to me is a deal breaker right there.

00:43:31 ◼   ► - Right.

00:43:31 ◼   ► But it's, you know, so my just basic question to Twitter and to my Twitter followers is,

00:43:37 ◼   ► okay, let's say I want to give Android Lollipop, you know, the new 5.0 version of Android,

00:43:42 ◼   ► which I do think from the outside, not having used it, looks like the first one, first version

00:43:47 ◼   ► of Android ever that's pretty well designed.

00:43:49 ◼   ► Right.

00:43:50 ◼   ► So that's why I want to try it.

00:43:52 ◼   ► And I have no interest in trying Android 4 point anything on any phone because I know

00:43:57 ◼   ► that I don't like it.

00:43:58 ◼   ► I know I've used it.

00:43:59 ◼   ► I've spent enough time with Android 4 devices

00:44:01 ◼   ► that I know I don't like the design.

00:44:03 ◼   ► So it has to be 5.0.

00:44:05 ◼   ► Which phone should I get?

00:44:06 ◼   ► And there's no clear, like, this is the best one to get.

00:44:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:44:12 ◼   ► - More or less it comes down to the two most popular answers

00:44:14 ◼   ► were the Nexus 5, which is the year old Nexus phone,

00:44:18 ◼   ► and the Moto X.

00:44:21 ◼   ► Moto X is more expensive though.

00:44:23 ◼   ► It would cost me like 500 bucks.

00:44:25 ◼   ► - No HTC?

00:44:28 ◼   ► No, because HTC's M8, which did get some votes,

00:44:32 ◼   ► and most of the people who voted for it said it's easily

00:44:37 ◼   ► the best build quality of any Android phone.

00:44:39 ◼   ► But all HTC has promised for the M8

00:44:42 ◼   ► is that it'll get lollipop within the next 90 days, which

00:44:46 ◼   ► probably means 89 days from now.

00:44:50 ◼   ► Yeah, I've talked about my Nexus 7 on the show before.

00:44:56 ◼   ► And it's the original one.

00:44:58 ◼   ► And so the other day, I thought--

00:45:00 ◼   ► because Lollipop just came out not that long ago--

00:45:03 ◼   ► I thought, oh, well, maybe I can see

00:45:04 ◼   ► if I can get Lollipop on that device,

00:45:08 ◼   ► because it wasn't included in the beta program originally.

00:45:11 ◼   ► It was tried back in the summer, and it was not

00:45:15 ◼   ► one of the devices that you could install the early release

00:45:19 ◼   ► on.

00:45:21 ◼   ► And still, there is no release for that device.

00:45:24 ◼   ► And how old is that?

00:45:25 ◼   ► was very confusing, so that's.

00:45:28 ◼   ► When did that come out two years ago,

00:45:31 ◼   ► two and a half years ago, I want to say.

00:45:33 ◼   ► Yeah, because it came out the summer before the iPad mini.

00:45:40 ◼   ► And. It's just it's just a little odd to me

00:45:46 ◼   ► that a lollipop is quote out, but it's not that they haven't created

00:45:50 ◼   ► and apparently they're going to create a build for it, but they haven't done it yet.

00:45:53 ◼   ► No, yeah, they're not good at stuff like that. And it's a you know, and it's from Google. It's a Google, right?

00:45:59 ◼   ► It's a Google device

00:46:01 ◼   ► They're not there

00:46:05 ◼   ► I my broad impression of Google overall. I was I forget I was talking about this on Twitter the other day, but that

00:46:12 ◼   ► It's like one of those adages and I know it's you know, it's it's obviously not

00:46:17 ◼   ► Mathematically true, but you know, you know the first 90 percent of the effort takes half your time

00:46:23 ◼   ► and

00:46:25 ◼   ► The other 10% takes the other 90% of your time. Yeah, it's that last 10% always is

00:46:31 ◼   ► Not really 10% It's really more like half of anything any big project

00:46:37 ◼   ► and

00:46:39 ◼   ► Google is really bad at it at going into that, you know

00:46:44 ◼   ► And to me that like that like the hard part and for all the gripes people have about you know

00:46:50 ◼   ► Like iOS new versions of iOS running poorly on the oldest supported

00:46:55 ◼   ► Phones, you know or tab or iPads at least they do run and it's a lot more effort to make that happen

00:47:02 ◼   ► Then I think people give Apple credit for it. Yeah, and

00:47:05 ◼   ► It's you know, Google just punts on all that usually

00:47:09 ◼   ► I mean I'd see our live with Android pretty much every every year

00:47:12 ◼   ► Like they've never really had a release that has good support even for their Nexus devices that are more than a year old. Yeah

00:47:19 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:47:21 ◼   ► - Because it's hard, it's really, really hard.

00:47:23 ◼   ► And they just don't even try.

00:47:26 ◼   ► But the consensus seems to be that if I want the best,

00:47:30 ◼   ► like the state of the art Android experience today,

00:47:33 ◼   ► get a Moto X.

00:47:34 ◼   ► The new Moto X, 'cause they kept the name

00:47:37 ◼   ► the same year after year.

00:47:38 ◼   ► - That's interesting, I wouldn't have thought that.

00:47:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, and everybody seems to agree with it too.

00:47:46 ◼   ► Like the consensus is it's the best build quality,

00:47:49 ◼   ► It's a good, you know, a competitive camera and Motorola's extension.

00:47:57 ◼   ► It's not just a pure, you know, like the way that the Nexus has the pure Google Android

00:48:02 ◼   ► experience like Android 5.0 with nothing, you know, unadulterated.

00:48:08 ◼   ► That Moto X's version is pretty close to stock and the only thing they really do is they

00:48:14 ◼   ► they add their own applications as system apps

00:48:17 ◼   ► that you can't delete,

00:48:18 ◼   ► but they don't change the system itself.

00:48:20 ◼   ► Like the notification center,

00:48:22 ◼   ► it looks like the pure Android notification center,

00:48:25 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:48:27 ◼   ► It's a lot more, it's really, really close to stock Android

00:48:32 ◼   ► with a few Motorola sprinkles,

00:48:34 ◼   ► as opposed to the HTC and Samsung way

00:48:37 ◼   ► of sort of getting in at the system level

00:48:39 ◼   ► and decorating it. - Right, right.

00:48:42 ◼   ► I would love to try Xiaomi

00:48:44 ◼   ► Phone yeah, I would too. I don't know how you could get your hands on one of them. Yeah, I don't either

00:48:48 ◼   ► And I from what I've read I suspect that while it would be fun to use

00:48:52 ◼   ► It's probably crappy enough that you write it want it

00:48:55 ◼   ► You wouldn't want to blow a couple hundred bucks on it because it's you know, right?

00:48:58 ◼   ► But I'd love to see what the user experience I mean what the what the software is like. Yeah, because it's substantially different

00:49:04 ◼   ► From the look of it. Yeah, very very custom. Yeah

00:49:09 ◼   ► And I don't know what's gonna happen, you know people keep talking about oh look out because Xiaomi's going worldwide now

00:49:17 ◼   ► And I don't know what's gonna happen if they come to the United States. I don't think they could my goal. Yeah

00:49:24 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't think they ever will come to any I don't think they're ever gonna come to a country with strong IP laws

00:49:30 ◼   ► Right. I really don't and they're gonna stick, you know, I think they can they can grow

00:49:35 ◼   ► They have a lot of room to grow just staying in the Asian countries where they're mm-hmm

00:49:40 ◼   ► Because the way that they operate in a way that they so shamelessly copy stuff that I just don't see how they're gonna

00:49:46 ◼   ► I just don't see how they could do it. Yeah, I wouldn't think that

00:49:52 ◼   ► They wouldn't be there five minutes before they get right

00:49:56 ◼   ► Slapped with a suit. Yeah. Well and let's um

00:50:00 ◼   ► Come back well when we come back let's talk about

00:50:05 ◼   ► Your thing before about the what Apple will do with the iPhone next year, okay

00:50:09 ◼   ► so remember that but I'm gonna take a break here and

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00:54:48 ◼   ► You know, I've never I've been shaving my head for like a year and a half now, yeah

00:54:54 ◼   ► I've never shaved it with a blade like a

00:54:58 ◼   ► I've always used an electric but I should try it with that. I bet it's a really nice

00:55:04 ◼   ► clean clean cut

00:55:07 ◼   ► Some people do it. I know I mean I know bald guys who do it, right?

00:55:14 ◼   ► But you can't see I don't know. I don't know. I'm gonna be careful. I have our skill get Hank to do it. I

00:55:21 ◼   ► Have enough time enough I have enough trouble just shaving my face with

00:55:28 ◼   ► My decreasing vision and stuff. What I can look at is is hard enough

00:55:32 ◼   ► So next year's iPhones I a lot of people have been talking about this

00:55:37 ◼   ► Is what that what are they gonna do with the four inch size? Is that what you're thinking? Mm-hmm

00:55:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, because I've seen a lot of people

00:55:47 ◼   ► have been publishing their whatever,

00:55:49 ◼   ► like a month with the iPhone 6 Plus

00:55:52 ◼   ► or a month with the iPhone 6.

00:55:54 ◼   ► And everybody seems to really like them.

00:55:56 ◼   ► I like the device well enough.

00:55:58 ◼   ► I've got a 6.

00:55:59 ◼   ► But what I mostly like about it is the extra features

00:56:04 ◼   ► as opposed to the larger screen.

00:56:07 ◼   ► If I could, I would actually go back to the 4-inch.

00:56:11 ◼   ► - I would too.

00:56:12 ◼   ► In fact, I did it for two weeks.

00:56:14 ◼   ► I went back just to see what I thought.

00:56:17 ◼   ► I actually took my SIM card out and went back to my 5S

00:56:21 ◼   ► for two full weeks and really liked it.

00:56:24 ◼   ► But ultimately went back to the 6

00:56:28 ◼   ► because I can definitely tell,

00:56:31 ◼   ► I can absolutely Pepsi challenge the superior photos,

00:56:35 ◼   ► especially indoors.

00:56:37 ◼   ► It's possible that outdoors in sunlight,

00:56:39 ◼   ► I couldn't Pepsi challenge the photos,

00:56:41 ◼   ► but indoors I can definitely do it.

00:56:43 ◼   ► There's so much less noise on the,

00:56:46 ◼   ► and brighter exposures in really low light on the six

00:56:52 ◼   ► that it's, that alone almost makes it, seals the deal.

00:56:56 ◼   ► I also can tell, and this is something I didn't,

00:57:00 ◼   ► like when I wrote my review of it, that I didn't notice,

00:57:03 ◼   ► and it's the sort of thing that,

00:57:04 ◼   ► it's why I wish that I could always take six weeks

00:57:07 ◼   ► to write these reviews like I used to

00:57:09 ◼   ► before I got the review units

00:57:10 ◼   ► as opposed to doing it in like one week.

00:57:12 ◼   ► But like in the first week with the two new phones,

00:57:15 ◼   ► I noticed that the screens were nice,

00:57:16 ◼   ► but I didn't notice that they were actually nicer

00:57:19 ◼   ► than the 5S.

00:57:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, I didn't either.

00:57:22 ◼   ► - And there's that whole,

00:57:25 ◼   ► the big thing that I was obsessed with the first week

00:57:27 ◼   ► was the increase in pixels per inch on the 6 Plus,

00:57:31 ◼   ► that they went to this 1920 by 1080 resolution

00:57:36 ◼   ► and it runs at 3x retina, but on the fly they scale it down to like this weird 2.7x scaling

00:57:45 ◼   ► factor.

00:57:47 ◼   ► And I spent the whole week like you know taking my glasses on, taking them off, getting it

00:57:51 ◼   ► you know squinting real close at it, trying to see if I could see you know the scaling

00:57:55 ◼   ► and how much nicer.

00:57:57 ◼   ► And it really, the 6+ really does look nicer to me like you get really close to it and

00:58:00 ◼   ► text looks better because there's more pixels per inch.

00:58:03 ◼   ► Even though they're scaling and it's not true 3X, it really does look better than 2X.

00:58:07 ◼   ► And this regular 6 has the same 326 pixels per inch as the 5S.

00:58:13 ◼   ► I didn't notice this in the first week with the phone because I was obsessed with just

00:58:16 ◼   ► the pixels per inch.

00:58:18 ◼   ► And the 6 had the same pixels per inch for the 5S, so I didn't really bother looking

00:58:21 ◼   ► at it too much.

00:58:22 ◼   ► But now, lo these almost what, two months later, and with me having gone back to the

00:58:28 ◼   ► S for two weeks and now back to the 6. I can really notice that the 6, you know, the fact

00:58:36 ◼   ► that it has the same pixels per inch aside is so much, has a really nice improvement

00:58:40 ◼   ► to the screen. And I know that they talked about the fact that they added a polarizing

00:58:45 ◼   ► filter or a new polarizing filter so it looks better with polarized sunglasses. But I think

00:58:50 ◼   ► something to do with that also, the screen is even closer to the glass than before. It's

00:58:58 ◼   ► even you know I know that I raved about it endlessly when they first went Retina with

00:59:02 ◼   ► the iPhone 4 that it really looked like the pixels are closer to the glass. But now it's

00:59:07 ◼   ► so much closer that it makes like my iPhone 5 look like the screen is too far behind the

00:59:12 ◼   ► glass. And it even makes all of my iPads, everything I look at other than the phone

00:59:16 ◼   ► look like the pixels are too far under the glass. And that's really nice. But bottom

00:59:23 ◼   ► is it's all about the feel in my hand and I like the four inch feel in my hand

00:59:27 ◼   ► better I do I use my phone so much of the time that I use my phone I really

00:59:31 ◼   ► only have one hand it writes it's just humongous it's a humongous issue for me

00:59:37 ◼   ► yeah I can I can't bring myself to to get into reachability I do you use

00:59:42 ◼   ► reachability not much you know even though I even though my complaint is

00:59:46 ◼   ► about not being able to reach stuff at the top with my grip it never occurs to

00:59:50 ◼   ► me. So instead I'm doing this thing where I'm gently palming

00:59:55 ◼   ► it right and I have no there's no support at the bottom and

00:59:58 ◼   ► I'm reaching across the phone to get to the upper right hand

01:00:00 ◼   ► corner. I'm doing it right now, which is why my mouth is

01:00:03 ◼   ► turning away from the microphone, but and I just I

01:00:06 ◼   ► know I'm gonna drop it at some point because it's not a it's

01:00:09 ◼   ► not a secure hold but reachability. I mean to me, it's

01:00:13 ◼   ► nice that it's there, but it doesn't it often doesn't fire

01:00:17 ◼   ► for me on the first try.

01:00:19 ◼   ► And so then I'm doing this extra thing

01:00:22 ◼   ► that I didn't used to have to do.

01:00:24 ◼   ► And sometimes it's not working

01:00:25 ◼   ► and it's not solving the problem for me.

01:00:30 ◼   ► - Definitely.

01:00:33 ◼   ► It just never occurs to me to use it.

01:00:35 ◼   ► It's part of what I love about iOS

01:00:38 ◼   ► is even more than Mac OS X.

01:00:41 ◼   ► To me, the system makes such a coherent sense.

01:00:46 ◼   ► the design of the way that you go in and out of apps

01:00:48 ◼   ► and navigate within an app.

01:00:50 ◼   ► It's like I'm in, I'm just, whenever I'm using my iPhone,

01:00:53 ◼   ► I'm just in a certain mental zone.

01:00:56 ◼   ► And it, using reachability takes me out of that, you know,

01:00:59 ◼   ► because it's not on screen.

01:01:01 ◼   ► Like part of what to me the magic of iOS is

01:01:05 ◼   ► that everything is on the screen.

01:01:08 ◼   ► Anything you can do is something you can see on the screen.

01:01:12 ◼   ► And that's a profound decrease in abstraction.

01:01:17 ◼   ► Like that's why I think that the hardware back button

01:01:26 ◼   ► that Android uses, even though they draw it on screen now,

01:01:30 ◼   ► on most phones, but the fact that it's outside the rules

01:01:34 ◼   ► of the system, it just never occurs to me to use it

01:01:37 ◼   ► when I'm using Android.

01:01:38 ◼   ► And--

01:01:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, I find it hard to remember that

01:01:41 ◼   ► that's what you're supposed to do.

01:01:42 ◼   ► that the only thing you ever have to do in iOS

01:01:45 ◼   ► that's hardware related is hit the home button,

01:01:50 ◼   ► software-wise, and then there's things like volume,

01:01:53 ◼   ► but that volume makes sense that it's hardware

01:01:55 ◼   ► because it's not the software you're manipulating,

01:01:57 ◼   ► it's what the actual, it makes sense that it's hardware

01:01:59 ◼   ► 'cause it's the device that's emitting the sound.

01:02:02 ◼   ► And using reachability just takes me outside that zone.

01:02:07 ◼   ► It feels like it's not on the screen.

01:02:10 ◼   ► - Right.

01:02:12 ◼   ► If somehow I could just swipe my thumb down

01:02:15 ◼   ► and the phone would magically know

01:02:17 ◼   ► that I'm swiping down to read something,

01:02:18 ◼   ► I'd probably use it all the time.

01:02:20 ◼   ► But there's of course no way the phone could read your mind

01:02:22 ◼   ► and know that you're swiping down for reachability

01:02:25 ◼   ► as opposed to-- - Some other thing, yeah.

01:02:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, you know, if it could though,

01:02:30 ◼   ► read your mind in theory.

01:02:32 ◼   ► You know, I mean, I know that it's,

01:02:34 ◼   ► I'm just saying, I would use it all the time.

01:02:36 ◼   ► I would just drag the screen down

01:02:38 ◼   ► and you know, hit the back button.

01:02:41 ◼   ► but it's a big issue for me.

01:02:42 ◼   ► I also, I really, really don't like the size of it

01:02:46 ◼   ► in my jeans and I keep--

01:02:49 ◼   ► - That I don't notice actually.

01:02:51 ◼   ► I really don't notice the difference there.

01:02:53 ◼   ► - I definitely do.

01:02:54 ◼   ► I think part of it too is that when I wrote my review

01:02:56 ◼   ► in September, it was still somewhat shorts weather.

01:02:59 ◼   ► I might've spent more time with shorts, I don't know,

01:03:02 ◼   ► but it's, and I keep toggling the mute switch

01:03:07 ◼   ► as I take it in and out of my jeans.

01:03:09 ◼   ► I also I just don't like it I even like the flat sides of the iPhone 5s I kind of

01:03:19 ◼   ► like that but I also kind of like the new one too I mean I love the feel it's

01:03:22 ◼   ► I like the smooth feel too I'll talk that one up to a wash because if if

01:03:28 ◼   ► there were in theory a 4.0 inch iPhone 6 that had this shape I wouldn't be

01:03:36 ◼   ► complaining about it I guess. Yeah I wouldn't either. But I do think my thing

01:03:41 ◼   ► is that I noticed after switching back to the 5s for two weeks that it the flat

01:03:45 ◼   ► sides make for a nicer iPhone as camera. Oh yeah. Holding it to take a picture it

01:03:52 ◼   ► feels more natural in my hands to have my fingers pinching flat sides than round

01:03:57 ◼   ► sides. But I'll call that a wash. It's overall though how easy it is to reach

01:04:02 ◼   ► everything with holding the phone in one hand and how big it is in my pocket. Yeah.

01:04:06 ◼   ► I mean sometimes it's I mean like so so

01:04:08 ◼   ► Our friend Nevin mergen's game came out last night

01:04:12 ◼   ► space age and

01:04:15 ◼   ► Downloaded that and and you know, it's nice having a larger screen to play a game

01:04:21 ◼   ► But I don't think to me it's not enough. It's not no, you know, I have an iPad

01:04:27 ◼   ► It's not nice enough on the phone to make the difference for me. Yeah. No, no question when you're using it

01:04:34 ◼   ► It's you know, there are certainly reasons to to prefer a bigger screen

01:04:38 ◼   ► I mean I I I watch most most of the in the summer when I'm when baseball season's in and I watch

01:04:44 ◼   ► Seriously, I watch you know, I don't know over 100 Yankee games a year the ones I don't watch on TV

01:04:49 ◼   ► I usually watch on my iPad, but I wind up just for convenience sake sometimes watching them on my phone and obviously

01:04:56 ◼   ► Watching something that's the equivalent of TV like a ballgame the bigger the screen the better, you know, right even the 6+ is better

01:05:04 ◼   ► You know, but that's to me isn't important enough to optimize which phone I get.

01:05:10 ◼   ► If there were a 4.0 inch iPhone 6, like a third size, zero hesitation, 100% certainty,

01:05:17 ◼   ► that's the one I would have bought.

01:05:18 ◼   ► Yeah, me too.

01:05:19 ◼   ► Well, I think, I mean, at this point I wanted to try it, try the bigger size and see if

01:05:24 ◼   ► I liked it better, but I've come to the conclusion that I don't.

01:05:28 ◼   ► Right.

01:05:29 ◼   ► It's not even, it would be, it's an easier decision than almost any other in the Apple

01:05:33 ◼   ► product line and no hesitation. I think the iPhone 6 is... I don't... and I... here's

01:05:39 ◼   ► the big... here's the thing that I think gets lost in this is that people who'd love big

01:05:44 ◼   ► phones and I know that they truly do. There are people who love the 5... the 6 Plus, you

01:05:48 ◼   ► know. For whatever reason, they seem to... as a group to lump them all together, they

01:05:57 ◼   ► seem to think just unilaterally big phones are better and now that the iPhone has bigger

01:06:05 ◼   ► screens, iPhone users will see what they've been missing out on for years. Everybody will

01:06:09 ◼   ► see it and will appreciate it. I don't doubt that they're right but I really do think though

01:06:15 ◼   ► that there are... I'm certain now having used it for this bunch and having gone back that

01:06:22 ◼   ► It's the scale of form factors that people want in phones definitely goes beneath 4.7

01:06:31 ◼   ► inches.

01:06:32 ◼   ► So my short version is not that the iPhone 6 is too big, it's that it's too big to be

01:06:39 ◼   ► the smallest iPhone.

01:06:45 ◼   ► Not that I'm doubting that there are some people who love this size and that it's perfect

01:06:48 ◼   ► for them.

01:06:49 ◼   ► So, what are they going to do next year?

01:06:51 ◼   ► I

01:06:53 ◼   ► Don't know I would be surprised if they don't update the that the four inch form factor though what I hope they do is

01:07:04 ◼   ► is

01:07:06 ◼   ► Expand the top of the line, you know, which would be next year. I would expect an a9

01:07:12 ◼   ► system on a chip and

01:07:14 ◼   ► You know an even better camera

01:07:16 ◼   ► I would what I hope they do is expand to three sizes and that they you know, whatever they call it, you know

01:07:23 ◼   ► Yeah, if it's me, I don't know if they're gonna stick with this thing where they you know, you use the same

01:07:29 ◼   ► You know if next year's

01:07:31 ◼   ► 4.7 inch is exact same physical size as this and they call it the 6s and

01:07:35 ◼   ► they called the other one the 6s plus and they fit the same cases and

01:07:40 ◼   ► Maybe they just update the colors of the metal to show that they're new ones

01:07:45 ◼   ► And introduce I don't know an iPhone 6 air call it the iPhone 6 air and make it the 4 inch size

01:07:52 ◼   ► With like I said

01:07:57 ◼   ► What I would hope for is they would have the a9 and the new camera and all that the Apple pay

01:08:03 ◼   ► But well, I think it'll have Apple pen no matter what what I think is more likely is

01:08:09 ◼   ► That they would make it

01:08:12 ◼   ► do it sort of like they did the 5c two years ago and

01:08:15 ◼   ► That the for it. This is what I think is more likely that the four inch size there will be a new phone

01:08:21 ◼   ► But it'll be like the 5c might be even might even be plastic, right?

01:08:27 ◼   ► and would have the

01:08:30 ◼   ► internal specs of these phones

01:08:33 ◼   ► thus a

01:08:36 ◼   ► A8 these 2014 and I don't have dead of the nine. Yeah, and the camera from this phone and

01:08:42 ◼   ► And it would be you know, $100 lower starting price than the success. Yeah, that sounds more likely to me

01:08:50 ◼   ► I think it's way more likely because I think they have to think they can't price it equivalent. They can't mate

01:08:55 ◼   ► Yeah, I think you know, well, I scream the screen size alone isn't enough for it to warrant $100 difference, right?

01:09:02 ◼   ► You know that that's it would they be?

01:09:05 ◼   ► eating into their

01:09:07 ◼   ► Profit margins too much, you know that you know, they can't justify, you know wouldn't cost them $100 less to do it

01:09:13 ◼   ► so I think it would be more likely that it would be like the 6c the iPhone 6c and

01:09:19 ◼   ► It would be four inches, but it would be a year behind on the specs to me

01:09:23 ◼   ► The plastic seems to belong at the bottom of the line though because what happens then?

01:09:27 ◼   ► I mean you can't you can't then take the 5s and move it down to the free model and have a plastic

01:09:34 ◼   ► Maybe I guess you could put this the screen size is the same. I mean, that's what they did with the five, right?

01:09:39 ◼   ► You know, they had the four s

01:09:42 ◼   ► When the 5c came out

01:09:44 ◼   ► At the bottom, but that was a different screen size

01:09:48 ◼   ► And it doesn't seem like they could push down. I mean, maybe they could just make a new

01:09:53 ◼   ► new 5c

01:09:57 ◼   ► So then the bottom two would be both plastic

01:10:01 ◼   ► Yeah, something like that. I don't know but that's what I worried that they're going to do and and I worry that

01:10:07 ◼   ► On the CPU side I would I probably would just

01:10:13 ◼   ► prefer

01:10:16 ◼   ► Size alone and I'll take the year-old

01:10:19 ◼   ► CPU specs and get the smaller one, but I'm

01:10:24 ◼   ► very much

01:10:26 ◼   ► Worried that the camera in next year's iPhone will be so much better again than this year's

01:10:31 ◼   ► that yeah even though I'm so impressed this year with this camera I think next

01:10:36 ◼   ► year's camera is gonna be so much better that I won't that I'll be stuck getting

01:10:40 ◼   ► the 4.7 inch one again for the camera even though I would take the a the year

01:10:44 ◼   ► old a8 because I don't really play a lot of games and stuff like that and it's

01:10:48 ◼   ► you know I don't know that that getting an improved a9 would mean that much to

01:10:53 ◼   ► me but the improved camera would yeah I mentioned this a few episodes ago but I

01:11:01 ◼   ► don't have any firm thing about it but I heard like a rumor of a rumor from a

01:11:06 ◼   ► like a birdie who knows a birdie like way distant but that well number one

01:11:11 ◼   ► it's it's not looking at every single year the cameras gotten better on the

01:11:16 ◼   ► iPhone I think except for the first except for the 3g the the you know the

01:11:22 ◼   ► the 2008 iPhone had the same camera as the original 2007.

01:11:26 ◼   ► Like still didn't shoot video,

01:11:28 ◼   ► still was really looked like a phone camera.

01:11:30 ◼   ► But ever since the 3GS,

01:11:33 ◼   ► every single year the iPhone camera

01:11:35 ◼   ► has gotten noticeably better.

01:11:37 ◼   ► Like enough better that it was,

01:11:39 ◼   ► the camera alone was tempting to be the reason

01:11:42 ◼   ► that you upgrade every single year.

01:11:44 ◼   ► At least if you care about photography.

01:11:48 ◼   ► And so there's no reason to think that's gonna stop anyway.

01:11:51 ◼   ► But the specific thing I heard is that there,

01:11:53 ◼   ► it's like next year's camera might be like

01:11:56 ◼   ► the biggest camera jump ever that they've got like--

01:11:58 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, really?

01:11:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, that it's, I don't even know,

01:12:02 ◼   ► I don't even know what sense this makes,

01:12:03 ◼   ► but that I've heard that it's some kind of weird

01:12:05 ◼   ► two lens system, where like the back camera uses two lenses

01:12:09 ◼   ► and I don't know, somehow that it takes it up

01:12:13 ◼   ► into SLR quality imagery.

01:12:16 ◼   ► And I don't know, that, well, and in some ways,

01:12:19 ◼   ► And that's what I've heard, but it can't really mean SLR quality,

01:12:23 ◼   ► 'cause a lot of what makes SLR, and in the digital age,

01:12:28 ◼   ► the 4/3 cameras, which aren't SLR, but you know what I mean.

01:12:32 ◼   ► What it means is big sensor.

01:12:34 ◼   ► And a lot of what makes cameras with big sensors

01:12:38 ◼   ► have better imagery is physics.

01:12:41 ◼   ► There's physics involved, and you have to really

01:12:43 ◼   ► have to have a big sensor. - The distance between

01:12:44 ◼   ► the lenses, right? - Right.

01:12:45 ◼   ► But that there's something they could do with two lenses,

01:12:48 ◼   ► I don't know, that just makes the photos,

01:12:51 ◼   ► not at a technical level SLR quality,

01:12:53 ◼   ► but at a practical level for consumers taking pictures,

01:12:57 ◼   ► closer to SLRs, I don't know.

01:13:02 ◼   ► But that it's a big enough jump

01:13:03 ◼   ► that anybody who cares about the photography,

01:13:05 ◼   ► even if you really want a four inch phone again,

01:13:08 ◼   ► you're gonna get the 4.7.

01:13:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, I feel like the last two cameras

01:13:12 ◼   ► have been plenty of camera for me.

01:13:15 ◼   ► I'm not as big a camera buff as you are.

01:13:18 ◼   ► And for years it did seem like, yeah, okay, okay,

01:13:21 ◼   ► I'm basically taking pictures with this

01:13:25 ◼   ► because it's the one that's in my pocket.

01:13:27 ◼   ► And I don't feel like that anymore.

01:13:29 ◼   ► Like it's practically speaking caught up

01:13:32 ◼   ► to almost everything that I need.

01:13:33 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:13:35 ◼   ► - It's just they've gotten so good.

01:13:37 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:13:38 ◼   ► And I'm a guy who's, every couple of years,

01:13:42 ◼   ► not every year, like every couple of years

01:13:43 ◼   ► I'll drop 800 or $1,000 on a new camera.

01:13:46 ◼   ► - I don't do that.

01:13:47 ◼   ► I really do care about some of that stuff.

01:13:48 ◼   ► And I really, I could just see looking at my,

01:13:52 ◼   ► you know, like my Lightroom archive,

01:13:54 ◼   ► that every year it's more and more,

01:13:57 ◼   ► or less and less photos shot with anything

01:14:00 ◼   ► other than the iPhone.

01:14:01 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:14:02 ◼   ► - It's always, it just gets more and more,

01:14:05 ◼   ► even like on vacation, and I have the camera camera camera

01:14:08 ◼   ► with me, and it's like, eh, I don't feel like walking

01:14:10 ◼   ► around with that on my neck, I'll just use my iPhone.

01:14:14 ◼   ► But I do, I think the camera is what it's gonna come down to

01:14:16 ◼   ► for me next year, unless they do what I really,

01:14:19 ◼   ► really hope they do is put three phones at the top of the.

01:14:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, that would be what I would hope to.

01:14:26 ◼   ► - But I don't think they will.

01:14:27 ◼   ► - I agree, yeah.

01:14:29 ◼   ► But I still think I would probably go back to,

01:14:32 ◼   ► stick with the relatively same internals as this phone

01:14:37 ◼   ► in a four inch screen.

01:14:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think if the camera isn't vastly improved,

01:14:43 ◼   ► if it's, you know, I would be very tempted

01:14:46 ◼   ► just to get that phone.

01:14:47 ◼   ► I noticed too, and here's the other anecdotal thing,

01:14:51 ◼   ► is like two or three weeks ago,

01:14:52 ◼   ► there was a little, a small indie Mac conference

01:14:56 ◼   ► here in Philly, Coco Love.

01:14:57 ◼   ► I didn't speak at it, but I went to it,

01:15:01 ◼   ► and you know, I don't know, 150 Mac nerds, iOS development.

01:15:06 ◼   ► You know, some friends, Marco was here,

01:15:11 ◼   ► Dave Whiskus and Brent were here,

01:15:13 ◼   ► But I met a lot of new people to,

01:15:15 ◼   ► I don't really get out much.

01:15:16 ◼   ► So even though it was local, even the local people,

01:15:19 ◼   ► a lot of them were new to me.

01:15:21 ◼   ► And people noticed, it occurred during

01:15:25 ◼   ► that two week stretch where I went back to my 5S.

01:15:27 ◼   ► And a lot of people noticed that I was using a 5S.

01:15:30 ◼   ► And they asked.

01:15:32 ◼   ► And almost every single person who I talked to about it

01:15:36 ◼   ► was nodding their head in agreement.

01:15:39 ◼   ► that yeah, they were all people who had the 6,

01:15:43 ◼   ► not the 6 Plus, and all were thinking the same thing

01:15:46 ◼   ► that I love so much about this new phone,

01:15:49 ◼   ► except that it's bigger.

01:15:50 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:15:52 ◼   ► - So there's definitely, and it's not just,

01:15:54 ◼   ► you and I are not outliers.

01:15:56 ◼   ► We may not be the majority,

01:15:58 ◼   ► like the split across the product line

01:16:02 ◼   ► may not be 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 if they did this,

01:16:04 ◼   ► but I think that it's, I think it's maybe close

01:16:07 ◼   ► at least a quarter of people would prefer the four inch size. Yeah I think so too. I mean I talked to

01:16:13 ◼   ► it seems like most of the people I talk to actually are you know so I've got a friend who who has

01:16:18 ◼   ► giant oven-sized hands and so he got a six plus and he feels like he's home because you know he

01:16:26 ◼   ► had a four which was so he was like waiting you know thinking they're gonna make a new they're

01:16:30 ◼   ► gonna make one that's bigger and I'm gonna wait for that and so he got the six plus when I came

01:16:35 ◼   ► out and he's just like it's perfect for him but you know like our neighbor up

01:16:41 ◼   ► the street was we were talking before the phone these phones came out she said

01:16:46 ◼   ► she said it's gonna be bigger I don't even like I've got a four I don't even

01:16:49 ◼   ► want a bigger phone than this you know my mom is on a 3GS and I keep saying

01:16:55 ◼   ► when are you gonna get a new phone you need to get a new phone looks like she's

01:16:58 ◼   ► not even getting software updates anymore and and then it was like okay

01:17:03 ◼   ► "Well, if I get one, what are you gonna get?

01:17:04 ◼   ► "What should I get?"

01:17:05 ◼   ► And I go like, "Well, I guess you should get the,"

01:17:07 ◼   ► and it's like, "I don't want a huge phone,

01:17:08 ◼   ► "so I guess you should get the 5S."

01:17:12 ◼   ► And my wife, same thing, she's like,

01:17:15 ◼   ► "I don't want that big a phone,

01:17:16 ◼   ► "I just don't want it that big."

01:17:18 ◼   ► So all the people I know who are in the market now

01:17:23 ◼   ► are not terribly excited about the larger firm factor.

01:17:26 ◼   ► - Right.

01:17:28 ◼   ► - And I think it's a complicated product marketing problem

01:17:33 ◼   ► where I think part of it, clearly there are people,

01:17:39 ◼   ► I mean, I know this, that there are people who love,

01:17:42 ◼   ► like your big-handed friend, who love the six plus.

01:17:45 ◼   ► And I know that there are people with tiny hands

01:17:48 ◼   ► who love the six plus.

01:17:49 ◼   ► And I know, from talking to Ben Thompson, huge,

01:17:54 ◼   ► Every woman in Asia has a big, like, fablet-sized,

01:17:59 ◼   ► six-inch phone, and they were all,

01:18:01 ◼   ► all of them who wanted an iPhone

01:18:02 ◼   ► were all waiting for the six plus.

01:18:04 ◼   ► And, you know, it's almost like for some of the people,

01:18:08 ◼   ► like women with really small hands,

01:18:10 ◼   ► that they couldn't use the iPhone 4 one-handed either.

01:18:12 ◼   ► So the whole one-handed thing wasn't an issue anyway,

01:18:14 ◼   ► so you might as well get a big one.

01:18:16 ◼   ► So I know that it's not just an issue,

01:18:17 ◼   ► it's not just appealing to people with large hands.

01:18:20 ◼   ► It's, you know, it's across the board.

01:18:22 ◼   ► Some people just use their phone two-handed all the time.

01:18:25 ◼   ► If so, why not get the biggest one?

01:18:28 ◼   ► But it's not just nerds either.

01:18:33 ◼   ► It's not just me.

01:18:33 ◼   ► Like Amy, who uses her iPhone very differently from me,

01:18:36 ◼   ► she's nowhere near,

01:18:37 ◼   ► she's not on it anywhere near as much as I am.

01:18:39 ◼   ► But she doesn't like the six size either.

01:18:42 ◼   ► She thinks it's ridiculously big.

01:18:44 ◼   ► And she can't even, she really can't even believe

01:18:47 ◼   ► that there's a bigger size.

01:18:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:18:49 ◼   ► - It's pretty astounding when you see it

01:18:51 ◼   ► for the first time.

01:18:53 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:18:53 ◼   ► - Whoa, that's a lot of phone.

01:18:57 ◼   ► - It, you know what, and it's funny,

01:18:58 ◼   ► it's funny 'cause I even had one as a review unit

01:19:01 ◼   ► and I used it for a week, but at the Coco Love Conference,

01:19:05 ◼   ► you know, when everybody had it on their phone,

01:19:06 ◼   ► everybody had them out all the time.

01:19:07 ◼   ► And there were people, of course, not just the people who,

01:19:09 ◼   ► you know, who were nodding their head in agreement with me

01:19:11 ◼   ► that the 6 is too big, but there were, of course,

01:19:13 ◼   ► other people who had the 6 Plus and you see them with it

01:19:15 ◼   ► and it's like, wow, it was a big ass phone.

01:19:18 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:19:19 ◼   ► - I don't know, I'll never get over it.

01:19:21 ◼   ► I've got my old 4 sitting here and it just feels really good.

01:19:27 ◼   ► I do.

01:19:28 ◼   ► I love the 4.

01:19:28 ◼   ► It's small.

01:19:30 ◼   ► That feels like a phone to me.

01:19:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:19:33 ◼   ► It had a good feel.

01:19:34 ◼   ► I like the 5S too.

01:19:36 ◼   ► Bottom line for me, the 5S is at this point peak iPhone.

01:19:39 ◼   ► That it's actually to me the overall--

01:19:41 ◼   ► the overall best iPhone ever made to me is the 5S.

01:19:45 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree.

01:19:45 ◼   ► I agree.

01:19:46 ◼   ► Because the 5 was the right form factor,

01:19:49 ◼   ► but it got dinged up badly.

01:19:50 ◼   ► It wasn't as nice a build.

01:19:54 ◼   ► - Right.

01:19:55 ◼   ► Hey, let's take another break here and thank

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01:23:34 ◼   ► recommend them strongly enough all right what else is going on let's talk about

01:23:41 ◼   ► your book I don't talk about your book yeah we took or what you guys know

01:23:44 ◼   ► that's fine we were talking about I was talking about having to use word yeah

01:23:49 ◼   ► and that's what that's what I have used I was gonna ask about that well here's

01:23:53 ◼   ► so here's the deal you've have you ever written a book before no so you've

01:23:56 ◼   ► written your first book we're part of my first but it's a co-authored so it's

01:24:01 ◼   ► It's myself and two other fine authors, James Clark and Cory Dustman.

01:24:09 ◼   ► And we have written the Visual Guide to Minecraft for Peach Pit Press, our good friends at Peach

01:24:15 ◼   ► Pit Press.

01:24:17 ◼   ► And it's a getting started book for people who are interested in getting into Minecraft

01:24:24 ◼   ► or interested in learning a little bit more about some things like how to build houses,

01:24:31 ◼   ► to use redstone. Redstone is really kind of an amazing thing if you haven't gotten into

01:24:36 ◼   ► redstone in Minecraft. There's a good section on how to use redstone. You're laughing because

01:24:42 ◼   ► you think it's a little quick.

01:24:43 ◼   ► I'm laughing because I don't know what it means. I think redstone is the stuff that

01:24:45 ◼   ► -- Jonas called me over one day and he said, "Here, watch this." And he had a thing and

01:24:50 ◼   ► he pulled a lever and then like a fuse left, let off, and like a fuse burned and then he

01:24:57 ◼   ► had like a fireworks show ready to go.

01:24:59 ◼   ► Yeah, that was probably there was probably some redstone. Yeah, anything using a lever is probably

01:25:04 ◼   ► Probably redstone. I mean in the great the cool thing about redstone is it kind of teaches particularly for kids teaches

01:25:11 ◼   ► It's like it's almost like programming because they're they're gates

01:25:14 ◼   ► So you can set up a series of different gates and by using these gates you're basically using it's basically the same

01:25:21 ◼   ► Fundamental theory that is inside every computer. All right, it's logic, right?

01:25:27 ◼   ► I like you know and sonors and stuff like yeah, and you know and one day can't came to me

01:25:33 ◼   ► he's like I you know I saw this thing on you know as usual on YouTube and

01:25:38 ◼   ► somebody had made a an elevator in Minecraft using redstone and he's like I want to

01:25:44 ◼   ► make this thing, but I can't figure out because you know most of these YouTube videos are

01:25:49 ◼   ► created by a

01:25:52 ◼   ► lot of them are created by like 14 year olds or

01:25:55 ◼   ► You know right people who don't necessarily have the best video production skills and and presentation skills

01:26:03 ◼   ► And this guy was better than that most

01:26:05 ◼   ► But he also got like halfway through and realized that he had screwed something up and just like trying to correct it on the fly

01:26:10 ◼   ► So it was pretty aggravating for me having to put that together

01:26:15 ◼   ► But we got through it. We got it done anyway, so some of that stuff is in

01:26:20 ◼   ► Is in the book my section is that I got I got the beginning section, which is how to you know basic game?

01:26:27 ◼   ► installation and using the interface and then also

01:26:30 ◼   ► surviving surviving your first day

01:26:33 ◼   ► Which if your first you know that for me that was like that the hard part getting into the game was like okay?

01:26:40 ◼   ► You just get dropped in this world, and there are no instructions really whatsoever, and it's like so what am I supposed to do?

01:26:45 ◼   ► How do I?

01:26:46 ◼   ► How do I move around here? What am I what's my what's my goal here?

01:26:50 ◼   ► And so I talked about that and then do some basic introduction and like in how to set up a server

01:26:56 ◼   ► I did that section and how to install mods

01:26:58 ◼   ► Now your section is also available as its own standalone book

01:27:03 ◼   ► Yeah, all of the section, you know

01:27:05 ◼   ► all of them are so, you know if you if you go so you can go to Peach Pit press and and it's peach pit

01:27:10 ◼   ► calm and look at look up the visual guide to Minecraft and you can get any of the

01:27:15 ◼   ► sections separately as

01:27:17 ◼   ► Ebooks or you can get the book and we're also we're also doing some video stuff that goes along with that

01:27:24 ◼   ► So you buy the book?

01:27:26 ◼   ► You'll get access to that once it's available. It's not quite up yet

01:27:30 ◼   ► So that's why you badmouth the 14 year olds who make the YouTube videos

01:27:34 ◼   ► You're you're saying you're saying that the videos that accompany the visual guide to Minecraft are

01:27:41 ◼   ► They don't get halfway through and realize that they hadn't set up the right yeah at the bottom of the elevator. That's right

01:27:46 ◼   ► That's right. In fact, they made me do over some

01:27:49 ◼   ► That I did

01:27:52 ◼   ► It's a good sign, which is it interesting which was and so we talked about like computer performance like gaming performance on

01:27:59 ◼   ► Laptops and so I have my my regular machine is a 2012

01:28:04 ◼   ► 10 inch 11 inch whatever it is air

01:28:07 ◼   ► with four

01:28:10 ◼   ► megabytes of RAM or megabytes. Yeah, four megabytes of RAM. It's a special order.

01:28:14 ◼   ► Four gigs of RAM. It's a 1991 commemorative MacBook Air.

01:28:19 ◼   ► What were those little things that you could dock into the...

01:28:23 ◼   ► Oh yeah. Anyway, and I had done some screen capture stuff before. I thought, okay,

01:28:32 ◼   ► that won't be a problem. But it's one thing to do screen capture stuff of just like web browsing

01:28:38 ◼   ► or moving files around in the finder. When you're playing a game and you're also running screen

01:28:43 ◼   ► capture, you know like a fairly processor intensive game like Minecraft and also trying to run screen

01:28:48 ◼   ► capture software, it's a problem. So the fan was going, things were slowing down and it was

01:28:55 ◼   ► it was not working right. So I actually had to get Hank's MacBook Pro has eight gigs of RAM in it.

01:29:01 ◼   ► That was the most powerful, the most RAM that we had in the house. So I had to borrow Hank's

01:29:08 ◼   ► "Thanks MacBook Pro to actually do the video production for this thing."

01:29:11 ◼   ► How did you get started on this? Like how did... Whose idea was it to write this book?

01:29:19 ◼   ► So...

01:29:19 ◼   ► Basic idea though, is that a dummy like me who's been blabbering on this show for months now about

01:29:24 ◼   ► being not understanding what the hell Minecraft is. This is... I've just started the book. I got

01:29:28 ◼   ► it last night. But it seems to me like at the very least it's going to answer the basic question of

01:29:33 ◼   ► what the hell is going on, right? Which is really what I want. So I cannot tell you how happy I am

01:29:38 ◼   ► that this book exists.

01:29:39 ◼   ► I honestly, this is like the book of the year for me.

01:29:44 ◼   ► Because it is a major part of my life, this game.

01:29:49 ◼   ► Because I love my son and I'm really--

01:29:52 ◼   ► - It's 'cause you're a parent.

01:29:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I'm really, it's like the first time

01:29:55 ◼   ► he's really gotten into something computer.

01:29:59 ◼   ► He's more into Minecraft than anything else

01:30:02 ◼   ► he's ever been into.

01:30:03 ◼   ► And so I wanna be a part of that.

01:30:04 ◼   ► And I almost feel like, I feel like I'm the dad

01:30:08 ◼   ► Who never played sports and my kid wants to play baseball and now you're telling me that you got to run around these be I don't

01:30:13 ◼   ► Even understand, you know, that's how I feel about Minecraft

01:30:16 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, like the dad who grew up in England and therefore never never heard of baseball, you know

01:30:21 ◼   ► And now I live in the United States and my kid wants to play base, right? Right, right

01:30:25 ◼   ► Yes, how did you how did you get involved with this?

01:30:27 ◼   ► So well, he I mean he so he had he's got a buddy who got him into Minecraft, you know

01:30:31 ◼   ► Just like you know, you gotta play Minecraft. You gotta play minecraft

01:30:34 ◼   ► So so he started playing Minecraft like a couple of years ago now, I think.

01:30:38 ◼   ► And, you know, and I same thing, I just like watched it from afar

01:30:42 ◼   ► and then thought, Oh, yeah, I should.

01:30:45 ◼   ► You know, he was looking for someone else to play with.

01:30:47 ◼   ► And so I thought, OK, I'll I'll start playing.

01:30:48 ◼   ► But then I had that, you know, that reaction like that first like,

01:30:51 ◼   ► I don't know what the heck I'm doing.

01:30:53 ◼   ► So I actually watched a YouTube video that said, here's how to,

01:30:56 ◼   ► you know, like what you should try and do on your first day.

01:30:59 ◼   ► And and then we played it for

01:31:04 ◼   ► So he probably played it for at least a few months.

01:31:06 ◼   ► So I played it for like a year and a half or something like that. And.

01:31:09 ◼   ► Last spring, I wrote that article for the magazine about. Right.

01:31:16 ◼   ► The the basically the moguls of

01:31:19 ◼   ► Minecraft YouTube world about that guy, Stampi and Diamond

01:31:24 ◼   ► Minecart and other people who are making ridiculous amounts of money

01:31:31 ◼   ► doing these videos, these let's play videos of Minecraft on YouTube.

01:31:35 ◼   ► Who's the guy who's trying to get to the edge of the universe?

01:31:37 ◼   ► I don't know. I don't remember that guy's name.

01:31:40 ◼   ► Right. But yeah, it's just like there's just

01:31:43 ◼   ► there's so many people who are making Minecraft.

01:31:46 ◼   ► And some of these guys make make very good money doing it.

01:31:50 ◼   ► And just from the YouTube, just from the YouTube.

01:31:54 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, the ads. Right.

01:31:57 ◼   ► So that guy, Stampi,

01:32:00 ◼   ► I'm trying to remember his name off the top of my head.

01:32:02 ◼   ► Joseph, Joseph Garrett.

01:32:03 ◼   ► He, the Financial Times was trying to figure out

01:32:08 ◼   ► how much he made.

01:32:09 ◼   ► And they estimated that he grosses

01:32:12 ◼   ► between 80,000 and $800,000 a month

01:32:17 ◼   ► doing these videos.

01:32:19 ◼   ► And Google takes a cut of that.

01:32:23 ◼   ► They take like 45% and then his network that he works with

01:32:28 ◼   ► that does promotion for him takes a cut of that so he's not he's not netting

01:32:32 ◼   ► that but still but his operation it as an operation no heading between thirty

01:32:37 ◼   ► thousand and three hundred thousand dollars a month boy I can't believe

01:32:40 ◼   ► Google takes that much yeah apparently I guess I can yeah I mean there it's

01:32:44 ◼   ► something like that yeah I mean I may not have the exact number but it's it's

01:32:48 ◼   ► in that range I don't know I got our 30% seems like the gentleman's cap yeah you

01:32:54 ◼   ► know like right you know I mean like everybody can complain that Apple takes

01:32:58 ◼   ► 30% and I know Amazon has some things where they take 30 just seems like 30% is the gentleman's cap for

01:33:04 ◼   ► You know slicing off a top of every dollar that comes through your corporate thing anything more than that seems a little outrageous

01:33:12 ◼   ► Yeah, but anyway keep going

01:33:14 ◼   ► so

01:33:17 ◼   ► Cliff Colby who is a guy who works at?

01:33:19 ◼   ► Peach pit and I have I've known him for years and we talked years that when I was writing crazy Apple rumors

01:33:25 ◼   ► We talked about like doing a book, but I could never get my act together and couldn't figure out what the heck to write

01:33:30 ◼   ► and so cliff saw that article and he's like hey, you know, I think we should do a Minecraft book and and

01:33:35 ◼   ► Get some other people to do

01:33:38 ◼   ► some different sections and be relatively easy to put together so

01:33:41 ◼   ► Let's do it. So he so when we talked to WWDC when I was down there in San Francisco

01:33:48 ◼   ► San Francisco, which is where they're where peach pit is based and

01:33:55 ◼   ► basically wrote it over the summer and into the fall and

01:33:58 ◼   ► Then did the video production how big how big is your section?

01:34:03 ◼   ► I

01:34:05 ◼   ► Think my sections about 40 plus pages 40 to 50 pages something like that. So it's not

01:34:11 ◼   ► Not huge. No. No, it's not huge. All right, but it takes time

01:34:17 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, so it's an interesting it's an interesting process and all of it, you know all of it in word

01:34:22 ◼   ► Which is not my I would that's one of the questions I strength anymore

01:34:27 ◼   ► I mean I used to be okay on it, but you know they do these people book production companies they

01:34:33 ◼   ► They really

01:34:36 ◼   ► They're all in on word. Yeah, it's not just well

01:34:39 ◼   ► We need we just all need to agree on a file format that we all can read

01:34:44 ◼   ► It's because they're like that the change tracking. Yeah, it's mostly

01:34:48 ◼   ► I think that probably the biggest thing is the train change tracking and then after that it's formatting

01:34:53 ◼   ► stuff I don't because they have all these so they have all their

01:34:57 ◼   ► their templates built into

01:35:00 ◼   ► word already, so they provided me a template and I typed into the template and

01:35:06 ◼   ► Then you know I would use they had macros that would do formatting stuff

01:35:13 ◼   ► So yeah, it's a I mean that part

01:35:17 ◼   ► I'm curious about I'm curious because I am a writer I have written a lot. I think I

01:35:24 ◼   ► I think I did a word count I exported everything from daring fireball before XOXO. I didn't

01:35:32 ◼   ► actually include this in my talk but because my talk at XOXO was about what it's like to

01:35:36 ◼   ► have written during fireball you know how I built it into a business and you know the

01:35:39 ◼   ► last 12 years or whatever but I was curious because Jim Kudol asked me a couple months

01:35:44 ◼   ► He was like what how much have you written it during fireball and I'd never counted before so I wrote a script

01:35:49 ◼   ► I exported everything from the linked list and from my articles and then I wrote a script that cut out all the

01:35:54 ◼   ► Block quoted material so the block quotes didn't count. Hey, and it was

01:36:00 ◼   ► remarkably even it was a little bit over 900,000 words for both linked list entries and my like

01:36:07 ◼   ► column length entries

01:36:09 ◼   ► So it's you know close to looks like maybe like within the next year

01:36:14 ◼   ► I'll cross like the two million words mark, which sounds like a lot of words

01:36:19 ◼   ► That's a lot of that is a lot of words. It really does. It's not

01:36:22 ◼   ► No sounds sounds like about it. All right, and the basic I've googled this many times

01:36:29 ◼   ► But the you know books obviously vary great with greatly in length

01:36:32 ◼   ► But like the typical length of a book is somewhere around like 60 to 80 thousand words

01:36:37 ◼   ► You know for like a novel or something like that

01:36:39 ◼   ► So it's you know, like the equivalent of a lot of books

01:36:44 ◼   ► Yeah, but on the other hand, but I've never written I've never written anything in my life

01:36:48 ◼   ► That's more than maybe four thousand words and I don't know that I can like I eat when I was younger

01:36:53 ◼   ► I used to think well eventually you'll have to write a book because that's if you want to be a writer

01:36:58 ◼   ► Ultimately, you think you got it. You got to write a book

01:37:00 ◼   ► But you know, I don't know I'm getting pretty old and I haven't written a book

01:37:05 ◼   ► It's really just I mean particularly for something like this. It's it's just a it's like you're writing a series of articles

01:37:11 ◼   ► You know I wrote different. I wrote a number of different sections about different topics and so each one was

01:37:18 ◼   ► Its own little thing I also think though

01:37:22 ◼   ► And I don't want to be too much like the princess and the P, but I don't know that I could bring myself to

01:37:26 ◼   ► working with word I

01:37:29 ◼   ► Really that was really and that sounds so my struggles with my hardware over the video

01:37:35 ◼   ► production part which is really just my own fault. The word part is was not my

01:37:40 ◼   ► favorite. I you know I'm so picky about what I write that I invented a thing

01:37:45 ◼   ► that people use. I invented markdown specifically because I wasn't happy with

01:37:49 ◼   ► what happened before that you know. I can't imagine writing anything long-form

01:37:53 ◼   ► not in markdown and it seems like writing in markdown and then going and

01:37:58 ◼   ► you know moving it into word would be such a huge pain in the ass. It is I

01:38:01 ◼   ► I tried that at first and then I was like,

01:38:03 ◼   ► okay, this is not working.

01:38:04 ◼   ► - Right, and it doesn't work because

01:38:07 ◼   ► once you have to make edits, you can't go back.

01:38:12 ◼   ► - Right.

01:38:13 ◼   ► - 'Cause that's actually, you know,

01:38:15 ◼   ► like to go back 10 years, 'cause I think we're,

01:38:18 ◼   ► I think this fall is the 10 year anniversary

01:38:21 ◼   ► of Markdown 1.0, but the public beta came out

01:38:24 ◼   ► like in February, so we're past 10 years

01:38:26 ◼   ► of like public Markdown.

01:38:29 ◼   ► But before Markdown was Markdown, it was a series of filters I had in BB Edit that were

01:38:39 ◼   ► like one way.

01:38:41 ◼   ► I would start by writing Markdown, like a very prototypical early version of Markdown

01:38:47 ◼   ► that was mostly just like automatically putting paragraph tags in between blank lines and

01:38:53 ◼   ► asterisks for italics and some kind of shorthand for links.

01:38:59 ◼   ► So, I would write that way and then I would run my, you know, I didn't even have a name

01:39:03 ◼   ► for it, but I would run the script and it would turn it into HTML and then I would copy

01:39:08 ◼   ► and paste the HTML into movable type.

01:39:11 ◼   ► But that grew, it didn't last long because I would think I was done with the article

01:39:17 ◼   ► but then it's like, "No, I'm not really.

01:39:19 ◼   ► I have thought of something new and I want to go back."

01:39:21 ◼   ► But it's too late because now it's already in HTML and I'm stuck writing HTML, which

01:39:24 ◼   ► is the whole reason I started writing the script in the first place to let me use asterisks

01:39:28 ◼   ► And stuff like that. Mm-hmm and it would be even worse

01:39:31 ◼   ► I think it would be even worse to do it with something that's rich text like like yeah word

01:39:36 ◼   ► Yeah, and I know there are probably think there are there are some tools out there that try and help you with that process

01:39:41 ◼   ► but oh, you know, I

01:39:43 ◼   ► just I gave up and

01:39:46 ◼   ► Went ahead and I saw you had stir

01:39:48 ◼   ► I actually started writing in bbedit with markdown

01:39:51 ◼   ► Right, and then when I got to the point where I went I went to move the first section into word

01:39:57 ◼   ► It was like, okay, this is not gonna work at all. No

01:39:59 ◼   ► But if you wrote your own book

01:40:03 ◼   ► You wouldn't yeah in you don't really use right, right? I don't have to you know

01:40:08 ◼   ► Go to someone like peach pet and yeah use their existing process

01:40:11 ◼   ► I mean, I'm sure that there's obviously a way that I could I could just self-publish my own book at this point

01:40:15 ◼   ► And I can do pretty well, but I mean I would be surprised if David Sparks actually writes in word. Ah

01:40:19 ◼   ► Yeah, I should be the guy to talk to you it would actually almost be

01:40:25 ◼   ► hypocritical since like his you know he's written a really really good markdown

01:40:33 ◼   ► book yeah it would be kind of hypocritical if he hadn't written it in

01:40:36 ◼   ► markdown and plus II think he uses I books author right he has recently so

01:40:42 ◼   ► what would be the point I should find there'd be no there would be no point

01:40:46 ◼   ► going to work I wouldn't even be surprised I did read his book and it's

01:40:49 ◼   ► excellent I'll put a link to David's parts markdown book in the show notes

01:40:52 ◼   ► but I'm trying to bulk up the show notes.

01:40:55 ◼   ► I've noticed that a lot of the podcasts

01:40:58 ◼   ► I like have these copious show notes

01:41:00 ◼   ► that are, you know,

01:41:01 ◼   ► just full of links. - That's my value add

01:41:03 ◼   ► to the two podcasts that I'm on.

01:41:05 ◼   ► - And I suffer from podcast amnesia.

01:41:08 ◼   ► As soon as I'm done recording a podcast,

01:41:09 ◼   ► I don't even remember what the hell we talked about.

01:41:11 ◼   ► - Well, I have to listen to it again.

01:41:13 ◼   ► - See, that's-- - That's the only way.

01:41:15 ◼   ► The only way I can do it.

01:41:16 ◼   ► - All right.

01:41:17 ◼   ► But anyway, I'll try, I'll put a link to it.

01:41:19 ◼   ► But I wouldn't even be surprised.

01:41:20 ◼   ► I did read his book,

01:41:21 ◼   ► I have vague recollection that maybe he even included something about how he wrote the book

01:41:26 ◼   ► You know that his production, you know, yeah, and the other person who might know serenity Caldwell

01:41:33 ◼   ► She knows very well versed in the Ike. I don't public. Yeah. I think she knows more about ebook in town than

01:41:41 ◼   ► Anybody I love there's anybody who knows more than serenity. I'd like to meet them

01:41:45 ◼   ► Yeah, I remember her her Singleton talk from two years ago about the the nitty-gritty details of trying to write

01:41:53 ◼   ► trying to create an e-book just for like just for like

01:41:56 ◼   ► EPUB and

01:42:01 ◼   ► Kindles Moby and it was like oh my god. What a nightmare. Yeah

01:42:05 ◼   ► like if you thought it was bad back in the days when you had this special case Internet Explorer and Netscape, it's like

01:42:11 ◼   ► Imagine if one uses HTML and one doesn't even use

01:42:14 ◼   ► So anyway anyway now you use word

01:42:20 ◼   ► Right well my well my I've used word

01:42:25 ◼   ► My license is now lapsed since I'm done writing. I don't even know what I don't know what it's later

01:42:33 ◼   ► I'll get the license again, but I don't even know what word looks like these days

01:42:36 ◼   ► Is it is it the case does everybody Peach Pit use max doesn't matter is it is it is like word at a state?

01:42:42 ◼   ► I don't think they all use Macs.

01:42:45 ◼   ► I don't.

01:42:47 ◼   ► We work.

01:42:48 ◼   ► So the two people that I worked with at Peach Pit were Cliff, who was really basically putting

01:42:53 ◼   ► the deal together, you know, bringing the people together.

01:42:57 ◼   ► And then we had sort of a project manager who I think is actually not a Peach Pit employee,

01:43:04 ◼   ► someone that they contract with.

01:43:05 ◼   ► So and I'm pretty sure she did not use a Mac, but I think Cliff definitely uses a Mac.

01:43:11 ◼   ► So, I don't know, I think they're probably, I bet it's a mixed environment.

01:43:18 ◼   ► I think, I would think that most of the, I don't know, I don't know actually, it seems

01:43:25 ◼   ► like a lot of this stuff must end up going to Adobe at some point, right?

01:43:31 ◼   ► I would guess, yeah.

01:43:32 ◼   ► I would guess that the book is probably actually laid out with InDesign.

01:43:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:43:36 ◼   ► Or at least the print book.

01:43:37 ◼   ► Right.

01:43:38 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:43:40 ◼   ► It just seems, I don't know.

01:43:41 ◼   ► But the other thing I'll mention

01:43:43 ◼   ► while we're promoting the book,

01:43:45 ◼   ► if you go to Peach Pit to buy your book,

01:43:47 ◼   ► they have a really sweet deal

01:43:49 ◼   ► where you can get the print version

01:43:52 ◼   ► and a package of eBooks,

01:43:56 ◼   ► EPUB, which works in iBooks,

01:44:00 ◼   ► Moby, which will work on any of your Kindles,

01:44:03 ◼   ► either your app or your actual Kindle device, and a PDF.

01:44:09 ◼   ► They're not like DRM or anything like that

01:44:11 ◼   ► They just put a watermark on it that you know is registered to your name so that you know

01:44:15 ◼   ► If you share it you would be you wouldn't be tempted to share it publicly publicly shamed

01:44:20 ◼   ► Right and well probably taken to prison

01:44:22 ◼   ► But which is to me the the best way to do ebooks, you know

01:44:29 ◼   ► and I know there's other companies like O'Reilly that do that and I know that our friends that

01:44:32 ◼   ► Take control the tidbits folks, you know that they send their you know

01:44:37 ◼   ► Their brains are all cross-platform and no DRM and stuff. Yeah, but that's the best deal in my opinion

01:44:43 ◼   ► $21.59

01:44:46 ◼   ► $21.59 and you get it all. Yeah, which is a really good deal

01:44:50 ◼   ► Yeah

01:44:51 ◼   ► And just to be clear

01:44:52 ◼   ► But we wrap it up that when you go if you go to like the iBook store and search for molt

01:44:56 ◼   ► Minecraft two books show up. No, I swear I'm trying to help you out here trying to

01:45:02 ◼   ► You search for moltz minecraft two books show up and one's more expensive than the other

01:45:06 ◼   ► that's because the one that's more expensive is the one with all three of your contributions and don't buy both because

01:45:12 ◼   ► Your book is just the introduction section of the yes

01:45:15 ◼   ► So I'm I for my my section is the first section of the whole book, right? Right. Let's take a break

01:45:20 ◼   ► I have one more sponsor to thank

01:45:22 ◼   ► And then we'll wrap up the show, but I want to say thanks to our next sponsor and it's our good friends at igloo

01:45:31 ◼   ► igloo is an intranet you'll actually like.

01:45:35 ◼   ► That's their slogan. I say it's the intranet you'll actually like because I've never

01:45:38 ◼   ► heard of another one.

01:45:39 ◼   ► It's built with easy to use apps like shared calendars,

01:45:43 ◼   ► Twitter like micro blogs, file sharing, task management and more.

01:45:47 ◼   ► It's everything you need for a team to work together

01:45:50 ◼   ► better in one very configurable cloud platform.

01:45:54 ◼   ► They have a great mobile story. Their mobile

01:45:57 ◼   ► responsive design works like a champ on

01:46:00 ◼   ► virtually any device, any device with a WebKit browser

01:46:03 ◼   ► like Android, iOS, even the new Blackberries.

01:46:09 ◼   ► Windows Phone, they don't have WebKit but

01:46:12 ◼   ► you know the the mobile Internet Explorer is really pretty good on

01:46:15 ◼   ► Windows Phone.

01:46:16 ◼   ► Responsive design on all those devices

01:46:19 ◼   ► works on your new plus-sized iPhone right from the start

01:46:23 ◼   ► because that's to me one of the little ironies of

01:46:26 ◼   ► of the whole bigger iPhone screen thing is that well-designed responsive mobile apps

01:46:33 ◼   ► supported the new sizes automatically and didn't have to be redesigned like native apps

01:46:37 ◼   ► did. You can review documents, post project updates, change administrative settings. You

01:46:44 ◼   ► can even complain about the U2 album on your iTunes library. All from your phone. From

01:46:50 ◼   ► your phone. You don't have to be at a PC and using a full screen browser. All of that stuff

01:46:56 ◼   ► works from your phone. Here's the other thing they want me to talk about. And again, I mentioned

01:47:01 ◼   ► this the last time they sponsored the show. I don't really know much about the Enterprise.

01:47:04 ◼   ► I've never worked in the Enterprise. But this is a big deal. This Gartner Magic Quadrant

01:47:09 ◼   ► Report. Just earlier this month, Gartner released their 2014 edition of this. And it's their

01:47:16 ◼   ► magic quadrant for social software in the workplace. And this is a big deal for the

01:47:20 ◼   ► corporate environments. For the sixth consecutive year, Igloo was listed alongside, right alongside

01:47:28 ◼   ► tech giants like Microsoft, IBM, Google, VMware, Salesforce, and SAP. All these big companies,

01:47:36 ◼   ► you know, these big huge conglomerate type companies like Salesforce and SAP, right alongside

01:47:40 ◼   ► them, is our little friends at Igloo. Because their product stands right up with those guys.

01:47:46 ◼   ► really does. So the Gartner report values things like the size of the vendor.

01:47:51 ◼   ► Gartner calls that viability and igloo is praised by Gartner for their

01:47:57 ◼   ► responsiveness and customer experience. Here's an excerpt right from Gartner's

01:48:01 ◼   ► profile. They said, "Feedback from igloo's reference customers was consistently

01:48:06 ◼   ► positive. They praised the product's quick deployment, configuration, and

01:48:10 ◼   ► customization flexibility with self-service options for non-technical

01:48:15 ◼   ► users, control over branding, an information organization, and ease of use.

01:48:20 ◼   ► They also praised the responsiveness of igloo as an organization. So more or less

01:48:25 ◼   ► bottom line that's that's Gartner verifying and vouching for exactly what

01:48:31 ◼   ► what I've been telling you about igloo all along ever since igloo became a

01:48:35 ◼   ► Darren Fireball sponsor. It's easy to use, it's easy to understand, it's easy for

01:48:39 ◼   ► non-technical people to set up like the person in charge of the igloo intranet

01:48:46 ◼   ► for your team doesn't have to be a web programmer doesn't have to be a system

01:48:49 ◼   ► administrator it's just someone who can figure out a really easy to use visual

01:48:53 ◼   ► interface for doing this really really great product I they're they're growing

01:48:58 ◼   ► like gangbusters because it is so much easier and it really is it's the sort of

01:49:04 ◼   ► internet that you'll actually use you know all their competitors the stuff

01:49:07 ◼   ► like from Microsoft SharePoint and all that crap.

01:49:10 ◼   ► If your team uses that, there's evidence that shows that what people on your team really

01:49:14 ◼   ► do is they don't use it and they just pass everything around by email.

01:49:17 ◼   ► Igloo is an internet that your team will actually use.

01:49:21 ◼   ► And best of all, this to me is still amazing.

01:49:23 ◼   ► It's free to use in perpetuity with up to 10 people.

01:49:27 ◼   ► So if you have a 10 person or fewer team, Igloo is a free product.

01:49:30 ◼   ► You just use it for free.

01:49:32 ◼   ► And then after that, you can pay at a very, very competitive price per user after that.

01:49:38 ◼   ► So if you're a small team, you can use it for free in perpetuity.

01:49:41 ◼   ► And if you're a bigger team, you can start using it.

01:49:43 ◼   ► Try using it.

01:49:44 ◼   ► See if everything I've said is true for free.

01:49:48 ◼   ► And then add people after that.

01:49:49 ◼   ► So where do you go to find out more?

01:49:51 ◼   ► Easy.

01:49:52 ◼   ► Go to www.iglusoftware.com/the-talk-show.

01:49:57 ◼   ► All one word.

01:49:58 ◼   ► Igloosoftware.com/the-talk-show.

01:49:59 ◼   ► slash the talk show

01:50:01 ◼   ► My thanks to igloo

01:50:04 ◼   ► Yeah, as someone who has used corporate internets

01:50:07 ◼   ► Igloo is is just slightly I mean I and I have used igloo as well just as a as a user on my own

01:50:15 ◼   ► Not within the corporate environment

01:50:17 ◼   ► But it's such a dirty word that it's really like their whole marketing is just based on we know you hear internet and think big

01:50:25 ◼   ► pile of crap

01:50:26 ◼   ► We're not that that's like

01:50:28 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:50:29 ◼   ► Rewriting their marketing.

01:50:31 ◼   ► We know that when you hear that word,

01:50:33 ◼   ► you think, oh God, here it comes.

01:50:35 ◼   ► - It's just so awful that so much corporate software

01:50:38 ◼   ► is so bad and this is an instance

01:50:42 ◼   ► where it's corporate software,

01:50:44 ◼   ► software that you can use in an enterprise instance

01:50:46 ◼   ► that is really good and a pleasure to use.

01:50:49 ◼   ► - Speaking of writing, long form writing

01:50:55 ◼   ► and using markdown, you know where it's really

01:50:58 ◼   ► taking off and I'm fascinated by it is with screenplay authors, people who write movies.

01:51:04 ◼   ► There's two apps called, one's called Slugline, the Stu Mashwich is one of the people behind that

01:51:14 ◼   ► and then there's Highland which is from John August's app company. Highland I think started

01:51:20 ◼   ► more as like a viewer. That's John August's company is quote unquote apps.

01:51:27 ◼   ► They don't use markdown markdown. They use they John and Stu and a couple other

01:51:33 ◼   ► people collaborated with like a tiny like like a 1% sprinkling of a little

01:51:39 ◼   ► bit from me a couple years ago. But they started with markdown and they instead

01:51:44 ◼   ► made like a markdown like syntax they call fountain and it uses like the dot

01:51:49 ◼   ► fountain file extension optimized specifically for the rules of

01:51:54 ◼   ► screenplays. You know what a screenplay looks like. Yeah. It's kind of cool.

01:51:59 ◼   ► And years ago I used and I tinkered around with whatever that that heavy-duty

01:52:03 ◼   ► Final cut. Not Final Cut. Final Draft. Final Draft. Yeah. Yeah. And then you know and

01:52:09 ◼   ► I've also used Scrivener which has some screenplay stuff in it. You can do

01:52:13 ◼   ► you can do that in Scrivener as well. Final Draft is the Microsoft Word of

01:52:17 ◼   ► screenplay writing. It's the 800 pound gorilla on the market. It is tons of features and

01:52:23 ◼   ► the features help drive it and you know the file format is sort of a standard and people

01:52:30 ◼   ► hate it or at least people like for the reason you know there's some people who love Microsoft

01:52:35 ◼   ► Word. I'm not saying again it's the same thing with the phone sizes. I'm not saying that

01:52:38 ◼   ► everybody hates Microsoft Word. Some people love it. I'm sure you know there's people

01:52:43 ◼   ► who just really get into it. I'm sure there's people who love Final Draft but for the type

01:52:47 ◼   ► of people who don't like Word and who would prefer to write a blog post in a simple text

01:52:53 ◼   ► editor with Markdown, if you're like that, you don't like writing your screenplay with

01:52:59 ◼   ► Final Cut or Final Draft. I keep saying Final Cut, Final Draft. And so instead, there's

01:53:04 ◼   ► two of these apps and they're great. And they're friends, it's almost like a friendly competition

01:53:08 ◼   ► because they collaborated on the file format, this .fountain file format between them. But

01:53:14 ◼   ► very very markdown like just with some assumptions based on the rules of

01:53:20 ◼   ► screenplays so like the way that in a screenplay a character name for dialogue

01:53:24 ◼   ► is always all caps so if you write in all caps molt return that it

01:53:30 ◼   ► automatically knows that that's a character name and that the next line is

01:53:35 ◼   ► dialogue mm-hmm and you know if you want to put a word in italics you wrap in an

01:53:39 ◼   ► asterisks, you know, just like markdown. But it lets you use, if you want to, you

01:53:45 ◼   ► could just use something like BB edit and just write in a format that is very

01:53:49 ◼   ► very readable in its native format and then you process it and out comes a PDF

01:53:54 ◼   ► that looks like a screenplay. Everything's in courier, all the margins

01:53:59 ◼   ► are taken care of and stuff like that. But you could use their apps and, you

01:54:03 ◼   ► know, the slug line and fountain and it format does, you know, as you're typing it

01:54:07 ◼   ► looks a little bit more screenplay-y right off the bat instead of, you know,

01:54:12 ◼   ► pure text. But the file format you're saving underneath is just plain text and

01:54:17 ◼   ► then you know you have that peace of mind like going back to our discussion

01:54:20 ◼   ► about like the iWorks apps. Like 20 years from now your screenplay is still just

01:54:23 ◼   ► in a, you know, plain text file. You don't have to worry that slugline is still an

01:54:27 ◼   ► app. You laugh but it's... Yeah, no, I know, I know, I'm laughing, I'm still laughing

01:54:32 ◼   ► having about the iWorks thing.

01:54:34 ◼   ► Right.

01:54:36 ◼   ► And the other thing, I think the reason that these apps have

01:54:39 ◼   ► taken off is even though Final Draft is still

01:54:42 ◼   ► sort of a standard, the basic gist, though,

01:54:45 ◼   ► is if you're a working screenplay screenwriter,

01:54:51 ◼   ► the canonical format that gets passed around

01:54:54 ◼   ► as you submit your work and studios read it

01:54:56 ◼   ► or even if you're already been hired

01:54:58 ◼   ► and you have to pass a draft is a PDF file.

01:55:00 ◼   ► So it doesn't matter what you use to write it,

01:55:03 ◼   ► you generate a PDF and that's what everybody reads.

01:55:06 ◼   ► And these apps create PDFs that look like

01:55:08 ◼   ► perfect screenplays, there's no, you know,

01:55:10 ◼   ► there is no system in place like with Word,

01:55:13 ◼   ► with change tracking and stuff like that,

01:55:14 ◼   ► that you are obligated to use Final Draft in that way.

01:55:17 ◼   ► I mean, maybe some studios have something like that,

01:55:19 ◼   ► but for the most part, it seems like a lot of, you know,

01:55:22 ◼   ► working screenwriters can just use these apps

01:55:24 ◼   ► and miss out on nothing.

01:55:27 ◼   ► And it pleases me to no end that something I did, you know, and with no almost like 0.00001%

01:55:35 ◼   ► input from me that these guys went out and made something inspired by it that is, you

01:55:39 ◼   ► know, really solves a problem for screenwriters that Markdown solved for me as somebody writing

01:55:45 ◼   ► for a blog.

01:55:46 ◼   ► Right.

01:55:47 ◼   ► I'll put that into books as well.

01:55:49 ◼   ► Do you have any, well, I probably might not want to drop any names, but I mean, you know

01:55:56 ◼   ► there's gotta be some famous people who are using these apps.

01:56:01 ◼   ► - Well, John August, right?

01:56:02 ◼   ► I mean, he made the app.

01:56:04 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:56:04 ◼   ► I don't know of anybody bigger than that,

01:56:06 ◼   ► but John August writes Blockbuster movies.

01:56:08 ◼   ► - Right, right.

01:56:09 ◼   ► - I don't know anybody of any other.

01:56:13 ◼   ► It'd be pretty cool to know, though,

01:56:15 ◼   ► which summer Blockbuster movies were written with these.

01:56:18 ◼   ► That'd be pretty awesome.

01:56:21 ◼   ► Let me think about what else has been in the news.

01:56:25 ◼   ► You know what, it's old news at this point, but Merlin and I didn't even mention it last

01:56:29 ◼   ► week was Tim Cook coming out as gay.

01:56:33 ◼   ► That was I guess about two weeks ago now, but I thought that was so amazingly well done.

01:56:41 ◼   ► It's almost unbelievably how well that played out.

01:56:46 ◼   ► It's not I mean it's in its I think I said on my website that

01:56:51 ◼   ► It's nice

01:56:54 ◼   ► for

01:56:56 ◼   ► People who might be having trouble, you know, I mean a guy like Tim Cook is probably not really

01:57:00 ◼   ► Having trouble as a gate, you know as much trouble as some other people are having as a gay gay people

01:57:05 ◼   ► He probably did growing up though

01:57:07 ◼   ► Yeah, because the south well, I even just leave the south out of it, but he's a little bit older than me

01:57:14 ◼   ► He's I guess he's probably about your age right isn't he around 50. I don't know how old he is

01:57:19 ◼   ► Yes, something seems like that. Maybe a little bit. Maybe slightly older all right. If only there's some way that we could look up

01:57:25 ◼   ► We could probably ask Siri

01:57:29 ◼   ► How old is Tim Cook

01:57:39 ◼   ► Let's see, okay, I found this on the web for how old is. Oh no immediate answer 54 54 years old. Yeah

01:57:46 ◼   ► You know, I grew up in suburban Philadelphia, you know, which is you know

01:57:53 ◼   ► I think relatively speaking a little bit not certainly not socially

01:57:57 ◼   ► super liberal but you know

01:57:59 ◼   ► It's a little bit more liberal than that South and you know when I grew up it being gay was something that it just wasn't

01:58:06 ◼   ► talked about really just wasn't I don't know when I was a kid it just I didn't

01:58:10 ◼   ► really think it was I sort of vaguely knew what it meant but it didn't seem

01:58:15 ◼   ► like it was anybody you know it seemed like something that like maybe one in

01:58:19 ◼   ► 10,000 people were gay I don't know it just seemed very very it just seemed

01:58:24 ◼   ► like something that must have been obscure because nobody talked about it

01:58:27 ◼   ► yeah and I'm sure the adults knew that it was more common but it was something

01:58:32 ◼   ► that it was basically not talked about and I think people you know it's like I

01:58:38 ◼   ► think in that era people didn't talk about it with their kids because they

01:58:42 ◼   ► didn't want to give the kid the the idea I was the thought process I think I

01:58:48 ◼   ► don't know it was saying in front of the kid because then the kid will become

01:58:50 ◼   ► curious about what being gay is and the kid might become gay you know and

01:58:55 ◼   ► combine it with works you know combine it with the fact that all like Christian

01:59:01 ◼   ► religions are generally opposed to it. You know, like I grew up in a Catholic

01:59:05 ◼   ► family and it you know the Catholic Church considers it a sin. You know they

01:59:09 ◼   ► consider all sorts of it. I mean skipping church is a sin too but you know sins

01:59:14 ◼   ► are obviously bad things and you know that was under that rubric. And you know

01:59:20 ◼   ► people nobody was gay on TV and I know TV is you know is is not a

01:59:27 ◼   ► reflection of America or of culture as a whole but it it informs it right it's

01:59:33 ◼   ► like what what aspects of culture make it onto TV somehow are like this is the

01:59:38 ◼   ► parts of society this is the parts of our culture that are okay and nobody was

01:59:43 ◼   ► gay on TV which meant it was not okay you know it was weird it was a bad time

01:59:47 ◼   ► I think about this with my son who is the who was the center square guy on Oh

01:59:53 ◼   ► Paul and Paul and on the Hollywood scores in hindsight clearly

01:59:57 ◼   ► He was as gay as anybody who's ever been gay and I had no idea I honestly as a kid this I mean

02:00:07 ◼   ► I'm not that old but I honestly thought that he was just flamboyant

02:00:11 ◼   ► Yeah, I did not I did not realize I had no idea just I didn't know whereas like and I think it's amazing

02:00:19 ◼   ► In one generation that like my son is growing up in a world where you know being gay is you know?

02:00:26 ◼   ► Just like yeah having different colored skin. It's just some people are that way, you know, and you know, we see in Philadelphia

02:00:33 ◼   ► we see, you know people are gay all the time and

02:00:35 ◼   ► You know, they are then friends at his school have you know, some of his friends have two moms and you know

02:00:41 ◼   ► It's it's not even that he did honestly doesn't even think about it. Yeah

02:00:45 ◼   ► I don't Hank's best Frank's best friend from you know since growing up

02:00:49 ◼   ► I mean he met this kid when he was one or two, maybe it was two but very early on and

02:00:54 ◼   ► He's got two moms and we were

02:00:56 ◼   ► fortunate enough to go to their wedding

02:00:59 ◼   ► Which was

02:01:01 ◼   ► About a year ago. Yeah, it's just it's awesome

02:01:05 ◼   ► I cannot I'm so happy that the world has changed in this way

02:01:08 ◼   ► But it's you know, it's not like that everywhere and it certainly wasn't like that for Tim Cook growing up

02:01:14 ◼   ► No, yeah, and it's in it's still not like that for some people and so they think that's why these you know

02:01:20 ◼   ► Somebody who's successful like him

02:01:22 ◼   ► Being able to tell his story is very important

02:01:25 ◼   ► Jonas is middle school. He's in fifth grade now. He's in middle school. They have a club called glow

02:01:32 ◼   ► I think this is so awesome and stands for gay lesbian or whatever. I

02:01:36 ◼   ► Love that. I think that is so awesome because to me that

02:01:42 ◼   ► It sounds a little goofy. It sounds a little fun, but it really sort of expresses the the to me the the

02:01:48 ◼   ► Modern way of thinking which is hey, whatever floats your boat, you know and everybody, you know is different and some people are very different

02:01:56 ◼   ► And it's all okay. I love middle school now. Well fifth grade is called middle school. I don't know. Okay, I guess yeah

02:02:03 ◼   ► But I thought that's such a cool name and it's just to me

02:02:07 ◼   ► Critimizes the difference between you know his world and my world

02:02:11 ◼   ► 30 years ago when I was in fifth grade because there was no way they were gonna have a gay let's go on whatever club

02:02:17 ◼   ► It might be. Yeah

02:02:19 ◼   ► You know and I had Syracuse had talked about this on ATP but with that the

02:02:25 ◼   ► we've reached a point in our culture where where

02:02:28 ◼   ► nobody everybody seems to

02:02:31 ◼   ► Agree that you can't be

02:02:36 ◼   ► against

02:02:38 ◼   ► gay

02:02:39 ◼   ► Right. It's it's like culturally agreed upon that. It's just you know, it's discriminatory

02:02:44 ◼   ► It makes you a bad person to be against gays

02:02:47 ◼   ► But you can still be things like against gay marriage like that's still like a culturally acceptable stance to take

02:02:54 ◼   ► Yeah, decreasingly so though

02:02:57 ◼   ► decreasingly show definitely

02:03:00 ◼   ► And it's you know, it's catching up to where racism was. Yeah

02:03:06 ◼   ► I mean some people even people who are opposed to gay marriage now have a hard time not

02:03:11 ◼   ► at least saying that they approve of

02:03:14 ◼   ► civil unions and right and once you do that, you're kind of like okay, what's the

02:03:19 ◼   ► Right, right. It's right what you're drawing this difference between

02:03:23 ◼   ► Religious aspects of marriage and civil aspects of it where but nobody is endorsing a point that religions have to accept it, right?

02:03:31 ◼   ► It's just that legally it has to be called the same thing, right?

02:03:34 ◼   ► And like like the the response so nobody really I'm sure somewhere on you know

02:03:41 ◼   ► Obviously on the dark side of Twitter there where people have anonymous accounts at the you know, all sorts

02:03:47 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, the ugliest thoughts that humans can have are espoused every second I saw

02:03:53 ◼   ► well, I saw something that I couldn't figure out if it was I think it must have been tongue-in-cheek because

02:04:01 ◼   ► The guy was saying, "Tim Cook is gay, so you should switch to Android, and if you want,

02:04:08 ◼   ► I will come to your house and pick up your Apple products."

02:04:13 ◼   ► And it was written, and it wasn't written as a joke.

02:04:17 ◼   ► It seemed like there was at least a decent amount of text where this is an abomination

02:04:25 ◼   ► of nature sort of thing.

02:04:28 ◼   ► Reading like the bottom line was the guy was offering to drive your house and pick up your Apple products

02:04:33 ◼   ► Like the culturally acceptable way to

02:04:41 ◼   ► sort of

02:04:44 ◼   ► you know not just

02:04:46 ◼   ► cheer and clap your hands at

02:04:48 ◼   ► Cook's essay

02:04:51 ◼   ► What is to sort of take us and I saw some of this a fair amount of it is sort of

02:04:57 ◼   ► Who cares this isn't you know, you know, this is why why why why make this public?

02:05:04 ◼   ► This is your make your drawing more attention to to to the issue then, you know

02:05:08 ◼   ► It was totally cool before you actually, you know, Tim Cook actually wrote this story. Why why rub this in our faces?

02:05:14 ◼   ► I mean maybe they wouldn't say it that way but that's sort of how it it comes across. Why are you putting this in my face?

02:05:19 ◼   ► Why are you making me think about?

02:05:21 ◼   ► Things that I don't want to think about

02:05:25 ◼   ► And it's again, I'm just riffing on Syracuse II here, but it's it's true like as a single person, you know one man

02:05:31 ◼   ► However powerful he is that it doesn't make that big a difference that he's now

02:05:37 ◼   ► Publicly out as gay and proud of it than before when he just never spoke about it in public

02:05:42 ◼   ► it doesn't make that big a difference, but it

02:05:44 ◼   ► Well, I think it doesn't make a difference to me particularly. No, but I said, I mean, I think there's a there's a

02:05:50 ◼   ► There are a bunch of people. I mean there you know, it makes a difference if you're gay

02:05:54 ◼   ► I think it but we don't live you know that we're not all isolated from each other

02:05:59 ◼   ► Everything is related and in context, yeah

02:06:01 ◼   ► And you know it and it does matter where we were 10 years ago and 15 years ago, right?

02:06:07 ◼   ► It wasn't that long ago where it was controversial that will and grace had

02:06:11 ◼   ► Two gay characters as you know, the the leads of a prime times network sitcom, right?

02:06:18 ◼   ► whereas now that you mean it wasn't that long ago, but it

02:06:22 ◼   ► It wouldn't be an issue now at all

02:06:24 ◼   ► Right it's but we're coming very fast, but we're not there yet, right and it really does make a difference that there is a

02:06:32 ◼   ► That one of the most powerful leaders in our country is out and proud of being gay

02:06:39 ◼   ► Right. I mean how many how many kids are there right now just teenagers today in this country?

02:06:46 ◼   ► Let alone other countries that are far behind us on this issue socially who?

02:06:52 ◼   ► Are gay and are worried or even scared about telling their parents and coming out to their friends, you know, it's