The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► Oh, I haven't done a show since the event, so we probably ought to talk about the event, really.

00:00:04 ◼   ► Start with that.

00:00:06 ◼   ► Uh...

00:00:08 ◼   ► What did you think?

00:00:10 ◼   ► I thought it was a really good event.

00:00:12 ◼   ► I thought it was a great event up until the end.

00:00:16 ◼   ► Even then, you're talking about Sia?

00:00:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Even then, it wasn't bad. I've seen her before. I saw her on Saturday Night Live. Her music is amazing.

00:00:25 ◼   ► I just have to say that the performance made me feel weird.

00:00:29 ◼   ► You know what, people misunderstood my comment, because you said during the thing, "I miss you too."

00:00:42 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:00:44 ◼   ► And I'm sitting, I was sitting just down in front of you, and I started laughing

00:00:50 ◼   ► when I saw your comment. And she is a talented artist. There is no doubt about that. She's a

00:00:58 ◼   ► talented artist. I understand that a lot of people really like her, but it kind of took the whole

00:01:10 ◼   ► up of the of the keynote and, you know, brought your way down. You know, it was a weird note to

00:01:19 ◼   ► end on because it's even if I would have to think even somebody who's a big Sia fan would have to

00:01:24 ◼   ► say that they weren't really like upbeat songs. I left there, I left going to go into the hands-on

00:01:33 ◼   ► and when Tim ended his keynote segment I thought all right you know is there is there hands-on I

00:01:39 ◼   ► mean there usually is is there is there and then you know I was excited I wanted to get my hands

00:01:43 ◼   ► on the on the products and then she came out and I was like do do do you know wow if I had a knife

00:01:51 ◼   ► I'd cut my own throat right now, you know, this is so depressing. But, you know, that I didn't think

00:01:58 ◼   ► it was depressing. Although the video is sort of like took place in like squalor. Right?

00:02:02 ◼   ► I don't know. I don't know. I had to look away before I was afraid I was going to go jump out

00:02:08 ◼   ► in front of a bus or something. I felt overwhelmed. I don't know. It was a bug. Vomiting. It just,

00:02:14 ◼   ► I don't know, sometimes it seems like the music side of Apple is just trying too hard.

00:02:22 ◼   ► And that's kind of what that seemed. I mean, if they ended it with, you know, an upbeat artist,

00:02:29 ◼   ► and everything was great and cool, then, and, you know, the only people, I looked around,

00:02:35 ◼   ► the only people that stood and co-oped for the performance were from Apple.

00:02:43 ◼   ► all the reporters, even the ones around me, were sitting there with their jaws open like,

00:02:49 ◼   ► what was that? What just happened?

00:02:53 ◼   ► Pete: I, you know, I don't expect Apple to pick music from my iTunes library every time.

00:03:01 ◼   ► Brian: Once in a while would be nice, though.

00:03:03 ◼   ► Pete; Well, the Foo Fighters was my favorite of all time. That was amazing.

00:03:07 ◼   ► Brian; That was incredible.

00:03:08 ◼   ► Pete; I love the Foo Fighters. I don't even like going to concerts. I really don't. My wife does,

00:03:12 ◼   ► I don't. I find, I don't know, it's too loud. But if you reach a certain threshold, though,

00:03:18 ◼   ► then I will go and I love it. I've been to see, I've seen the Foo Fighters many, many times. And

00:03:22 ◼   ► not only do I love their recorded studio music, Foo Fighters, I don't know if you've ever seen

00:03:25 ◼   ► them live. They are a fantastic live. I know you saw them live at the Apple event.

00:03:29 ◼   ► I saw them at the Apple event and they were fantastic there. And you left feeling really good.

00:03:35 ◼   ► I mean, you left that event feeling good. But, you know, for years, Apple is not new to having

00:03:41 ◼   ► musical acts on their events. That's nothing new, but it was always, "Here are our great products."

00:03:53 ◼   ► And focus on the products. The focus was always on the products. And then at the end, "Oh yeah,

00:03:58 ◼   ► here's some band from Ireland. Yeah, here's you too." And sure, it was a big part. It was

00:04:09 ◼   ► an exciting thing to have a big band here or here's the Foo Fighters, but it was never the focus.

00:04:14 ◼   ► It was never the focus. The products were always the focus.

00:04:18 ◼   ► Ted

00:04:35 ◼   ► and Bono regarding and the three-two-one countdown were pulling a switch and yeah

00:04:40 ◼   ► it was you know seemingly under rehearsed and ill-considered and then

00:04:46 ◼   ► ended up being a distraction because the whole everybody gets the album but

00:04:51 ◼   ► instead of like clicking a button to say you know hey I want the album they just

00:04:55 ◼   ► forced it into your your I you know iTunes library which went over like a

00:04:59 ◼   ► lead balloon so arguably I would say that one was distracting too but here's

00:05:04 ◼   ► thing for me is it's not like hey apple you have to pick an artist who i like personally every time

00:05:09 ◼   ► because that's never going to happen because different people have different musical tastes

00:05:12 ◼   ► but the previous ones were always just about the music right so here's an example of somebody who

00:05:17 ◼   ► i'm not a particular fan of but i appreciate that he's a super talented musician john may

00:05:23 ◼   ► oh yeah right now i he's you know i i you know you know you're the guitarist but i mean i think

00:05:28 ◼   ► most people consider him one of the best guitarists in the game today. He's super talented,

00:05:34 ◼   ► good songwriter, has an interesting voice. I'm just not a fan, but when he was there,

00:05:38 ◼   ► it was just John Mayer and a guitar and a mic and the music, right? Brilliant.

00:05:43 ◼   ► One that I really loved, I forget which year it was, but I think it was Apple Town Hall,

00:05:49 ◼   ► was when Elvis Costello played. Yes. And I know it was Town Hall because I have a vivid memory of

00:05:56 ◼   ► it. I was like, "Holy shit, am I close to Elvis Costello." Now, I'm a big Elvis Costello fan.

00:06:00 ◼   ► Maybe I'm showing my age. Love the guy. But I think even if you're not an Elvis Costello fan,

00:06:06 ◼   ► it's not like him being up there for two or three songs was distracting, because it was literally

00:06:10 ◼   ► just Elvis Costello, a guitar, and a microphone. And it was really cool. The thing about the Sia

00:06:15 ◼   ► show was that it was like this whole— Pete: Production.

00:06:18 ◼   ► Pete: Production. There's a big video screen and there's these dancers running around doing weird

00:06:23 ◼   ► stuff and, you know, anyway.

00:06:24 ◼   ► Pete: Well, that's like WDC, not this year, I don't think it was this year, last year,

00:06:29 ◼   ► maybe, where they had The Weekend. It was just weird. You know, lasers and everything

00:06:36 ◼   ► going, it was just weird. And that's what I say, you know, it's almost like whoever

00:06:41 ◼   ► books these acts, whether it's Jimmy Iovine or whatever, is just trying too hard.

00:06:47 ◼   ► Pete: I think whoever it is, whoever they pick ought to just be somebody who's focused

00:06:50 ◼   ► on them.

00:06:51 ◼   ► Pete: Yeah.

00:06:52 ◼   ► Apple's message that we love music, whereas the Sia thing is way more than about the music. It

00:06:58 ◼   ► really is like an interactive, you know, production. I didn't find it. I think you objected to it more

00:07:04 ◼   ► than me. It was a weird thing. I did object to it. I don't object to her talent. I never would

00:07:13 ◼   ► expect that Apple would have somebody in my iTunes music library, you know, like Ozzy or Metallica or

00:07:21 ◼   ► something. I know that that's not going to happen. I can hope, but I know that that's never going to

00:07:27 ◼   ► happen, and I get that. But, you know, somebody like Sia, I think a lot of us, and people that

00:07:36 ◼   ► I talked to afterwards, people that saw the thing live and on video were just saying, "What the hell

00:07:43 ◼   ► was that?" You know, I just, it didn't send a good message to me.

00:07:48 ◼   ► What do you think of the opening with Tim Cook and Carpool Karaoke?

00:07:53 ◼   ► Hilarious.

00:07:54 ◼   ► I thought it was super funny.

00:07:56 ◼   ► I liked it.

00:07:57 ◼   ► I really liked that a lot.

00:07:59 ◼   ► It shows the side of Tim that we don't often get to see.

00:08:05 ◼   ► I thought it was great that they have Carpool Karaoke and they put Tim in there.

00:08:13 ◼   ► I could have done without Pharrell.

00:08:14 ◼   ► I have zero respect for Pharrell because he's a thief.

00:08:19 ◼   ► So I could have done without that,

00:08:23 ◼   ► but Tim and James were awesome.

00:08:28 ◼   ► Siri, how was Tim Cook?

00:08:30 ◼   ► Or what do you think of Tim Cook?

00:08:31 ◼   ► - Have you heard the backstory on Pharrell in that video?

00:08:36 ◼   ► - That they wanted to do a different song?

00:08:40 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:08:40 ◼   ► - I'm gonna tell the story.

00:08:43 ◼   ► I don't know where you heard it,

00:08:43 ◼   ► But I heard it from the source that I can at least relay it here.

00:08:46 ◼   ► So the idea was that they set up this carpool karaoke in advance.

00:08:50 ◼   ► And one of the songs Tim Cook wanted to do was "Happy."

00:08:55 ◼   ► And Eovine calls Pharrell.

00:09:00 ◼   ► And I think Pharrell was sort of on the fence.

00:09:03 ◼   ► And long story short, he was like, all right, well, if the hell we'll do it.

00:09:06 ◼   ► And I guess they did it, but then they ended up not even using it in the video.

00:09:10 ◼   ► But Pharrell was still there, so they still had Pharrell in the back seat.

00:09:12 ◼   ► and then it was weirdly edited

00:09:14 ◼   ► because it was like he was there,

00:09:15 ◼   ► but then he was. (laughs)

00:09:16 ◼   ► It's like everybody, when they got,

00:09:18 ◼   ► you know, the gimmick is the car pulls up

00:09:20 ◼   ► to the back of the Bill Graham Center

00:09:21 ◼   ► and ostensibly, you know, it's a joke joke,

00:09:24 ◼   ► sort of like a Letterman joke, really.

00:09:26 ◼   ► Tim Cook gets out and he comes on stage,

00:09:28 ◼   ► but Pharrell's not in the cardio war.

00:09:30 ◼   ► Where's Pharrell?

00:09:31 ◼   ► I swear to God, everybody, you were there,

00:09:33 ◼   ► you were near me, everybody was like,

00:09:35 ◼   ► everybody turned to each other.

00:09:36 ◼   ► Everybody noticed it, it was like, where's Pharrell?

00:09:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was, there was some funny things in there,

00:09:41 ◼   ► I think overall it went really well. I mean, you know, Tim, I wish he had to come out with

00:09:49 ◼   ► the glasses on. You know, he came out and then—

00:09:51 ◼   ► No, I think coming out with them in his hand was the right—it was the right level of

00:09:55 ◼   ► in the gag, because I think it'd be—you don't want pictures of him wearing those glasses.

00:09:59 ◼   ► No, well, okay, yeah, that's probably true. Yeah. See, I wouldn't mind pictures of

00:10:05 ◼   ► wearing those glasses, so.

00:10:06 ◼   ► I thought it was really good, and like you said, it really did reveal to me what seemed to be a

00:10:11 ◼   ► genuine side of Tim Cook that you often don't get to see because he's so on message.

00:10:19 ◼   ► Right.

00:10:20 ◼   ► Like, he's not that he's stiff. He's not, but he is calculated.

00:10:25 ◼   ► Yes.

00:10:26 ◼   ► And like, for example, I actually saw it on your website today. I don't know if it was you or Dave

00:10:35 ◼   ► who linked to it, but it was on Good Morning America.

00:10:37 ◼   ► Right. Yeah.

00:10:37 ◼   ► I guess in a run up to tomorrow's debut of the iPhones and the watch and everything.

00:10:42 ◼   ► Was it you or was it Dave who lived with it? All right. And he said, "It's all fluff. It's not

00:10:51 ◼   ► really anything there." But what do you expect on a six-minute segment in a morning show?

00:10:55 ◼   ► But it's like you can't recommend the video as like, "Wow, you're really going to learn

00:10:59 ◼   ► something?" People who listen to this show aren't going to watch it. But it is interesting to watch

00:11:03 ◼   ► it. I watched a couple minutes just to see how on point Tim Cook is, right? Like, he's just,

00:11:10 ◼   ► you know, unflappable in that type of thing, but he's also very, very, he's ready for any question,

00:11:18 ◼   ► but it's not, you know, the carpool karaoke Tim was sort of, "Hey, this is me, this is what I'm

00:11:25 ◼   ► like, you know, you know, when I'm just goofing around." It was actually Sean who linked to that,

00:11:29 ◼   ► which is Sean which explains the uh you know the kind of negative comments because he's just

00:11:35 ◼   ► negative about everything so um but anyway it was a good description it was just all fluff and

00:11:44 ◼   ► but it's still interesting to think of it in terms of this is not his primary job you know what i

00:11:49 ◼   ► mean like he's an op he came up as an operations guy i mean clearly his primary talent is in the

00:11:55 ◼   ► actual executive leadership of the company. The spokesperson stuff does not and never has come

00:12:02 ◼   ► naturally to him in the way it did with Steve Jobs. Right?

00:12:04 ◼   ► Ted

00:12:22 ◼   ► explain something and that's huge it's huge so and Steve Steve never would have done carpool

00:12:28 ◼   ► karaoke no and it would have been funny to see that but no no he wouldn't have done did you see

00:12:33 ◼   ► the the other video that i posted today johnny ives says aluminium did you watch that no i didn't

00:12:41 ◼   ► watch it do you gotta watch it it's the most hilarious thing i have seen okay it's great

00:12:50 ◼   ► I was actually, I saw it on the weekend, last weekend, it took me until today to

00:12:56 ◼   ► to post it, but I was laughing. I was sitting outside by myself watching this laughing. Yeah.

00:13:05 ◼   ► Well, speaking of getting better at speaking on stage, Jeff Williams did the Apple Watch part, and

00:13:20 ◼   ► every time he does it, I think I'm going to say the same thing, which is that it is

00:13:23 ◼   ► kind of uncanny how Tim Cook liked Jeff Williams.

00:13:30 ◼   ► I like Jeff speaking about it better than, oh, who's the Macromedia guy?

00:13:37 ◼   ► Kevin Lynch. Software. Kevin Lynch is software and effectively Jeff Williams is hardware. I mean,

00:13:46 ◼   ► I mean, obviously the design is Johnny Ives and his team,

00:13:49 ◼   ► but that Jeff Williams, in addition to his regular duties

00:13:53 ◼   ► as chief operating officer,

00:13:54 ◼   ► is the point person running the watch.

00:13:59 ◼   ► - I like Jeff.

00:14:00 ◼   ► I mean, Jeff is also in charge of all the health initiatives

00:14:05 ◼   ► that they're doing.

00:14:06 ◼   ► - Yes, yes. - You know,

00:14:07 ◼   ► research kid and health kid. - Health kid.

00:14:10 ◼   ► Or what's the other one, in addition to research kid?

00:14:12 ◼   ► There's-- - Oh, they have

00:14:14 ◼   ► a few of them now.

00:14:15 ◼   ► I don't know, hospital kit.

00:14:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, something like that.

00:14:17 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:14:19 ◼   ► But I like Jeff.

00:14:21 ◼   ► He is, he's getting much better too.

00:14:24 ◼   ► And then of course you have the best of them all,

00:14:29 ◼   ► I think, and show her.

00:14:31 ◼   ► - Well, let's do him an order.

00:14:33 ◼   ► - All right, all right.

00:14:34 ◼   ► - But with the, I said with,

00:14:36 ◼   ► Renee was on my show last episode.

00:14:38 ◼   ► I was gonna say last week,

00:14:39 ◼   ► but it was closer to two weeks ago, but Renee was on.

00:14:41 ◼   ► And I was a little skeptical that Jeff Williams

00:14:43 ◼   ► would do the watch introduction and Renee said,

00:14:46 ◼   ► no, they're grooming him to do more speaking.

00:14:48 ◼   ► He's going to do it.

00:14:49 ◼   ► So being right point awarded to Renee Ritchie,

00:14:52 ◼   ► it was Jeff Williams who did it.

00:14:53 ◼   ► My skepticism about it wasn't that Jeff Williams is not

00:14:57 ◼   ► good on stage, but that he's a little droll,

00:15:00 ◼   ► or has been in the past.

00:15:02 ◼   ► And I think that in particular--

00:15:04 ◼   ► that's OK when you're introducing a software

00:15:08 ◼   ► platform for university hospital researchers

00:15:11 ◼   ► to conduct large scale medical tests.

00:15:16 ◼   ► It's not okay when you're trying to unveil

00:15:19 ◼   ► the second generation of the second by revenue

00:15:22 ◼   ► in the entire industry watch.

00:15:24 ◼   ► That you gotta have a certain,

00:15:26 ◼   ► you gotta take your game up a little

00:15:28 ◼   ► in terms of enthusiasm, and he did it, really.

00:15:32 ◼   ► I thought that he was, he had like a sort of

00:15:36 ◼   ► upbeat enthusiasm that was exactly what was called for,

00:15:41 ◼   ► and it was his best on-stage performance period.

00:15:45 ◼   ► - I agree wholeheartedly.

00:15:46 ◼   ► I think that Jeff is doing much better.

00:15:49 ◼   ► Tim is certainly doing a whole lot better.

00:15:52 ◼   ► - And again, these are not professional spokespeople.

00:15:56 ◼   ► These are people, you know,

00:15:57 ◼   ► these are leading people in the industry

00:16:00 ◼   ► at these very specific tasks that are related to their job

00:16:03 ◼   ► who like once or twice a year,

00:16:05 ◼   ► all of a sudden have the spotlight

00:16:07 ◼   ► of a million suns on them.

00:16:10 ◼   ► Did you see the thing, like just how many people

00:16:13 ◼   ► watch these keynotes, that Akame released a tweet

00:16:16 ◼   ► that said that the peak of the Apple event

00:16:18 ◼   ► was the highest Akame's ever had for live video streaming.

00:16:21 ◼   ► Akame did the live video streaming for the Olympics.

00:16:25 ◼   ► Now that doesn't mean more people,

00:16:27 ◼   ► that doesn't mean more people watch the Apple event

00:16:29 ◼   ► than watch the Olympics,

00:16:30 ◼   ► 'cause the Olympics are a two-week long event,

00:16:31 ◼   ► but that at their peak,

00:16:33 ◼   ► - At their peak, yep.

00:16:34 ◼   ► - There were more people watching simultaneously,

00:16:36 ◼   ► so in terms of the actual strain on the Akame network

00:16:39 ◼   ► at any given time, that was the highest they'd ever reached.

00:16:42 ◼   ► So think about that, like I think about how nervous I get

00:16:45 ◼   ► when I go to a conference with 500 people

00:16:48 ◼   ► and get on stage and talk.

00:16:49 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:16:50 ◼   ► - Like imagine if you're getting on stage,

00:16:52 ◼   ► you're not a professional spokesperson or speaker,

00:16:55 ◼   ► and you're getting up there in front of the highest

00:16:57 ◼   ► peak audience that Akamai has ever handled.

00:16:59 ◼   ► There is serious pressure.

00:17:02 ◼   ► - Keep in mind that with this peak thing,

00:17:04 ◼   ► they've also streamed all of Steve Jobs' stuff,

00:17:08 ◼   ► iPhone announcements, everything, everything, this is ever.

00:17:12 ◼   ► So that's, you know.

00:17:14 ◼   ► - So I think what's happened in the past,

00:17:17 ◼   ► and again, this is us, me and you,

00:17:20 ◼   ► who would get up there and botch the whole thing,

00:17:23 ◼   ► and we'd try to do it.

00:17:24 ◼   ► I'm not, again, this is, we're, you know,

00:17:27 ◼   ► but we get, this is what we get to do.

00:17:28 ◼   ► We get to be armchair critics and criticize.

00:17:30 ◼   ► I think in the past, somebody like Jeff Williams,

00:17:32 ◼   ► and I think we saw the same thing with Tim Cook

00:17:34 ◼   ► in the early years, like when Steve Jobs was still around

00:17:37 ◼   ► and Tim would come out and do like the,

00:17:40 ◼   ► "Hey, how's the Mac doing?" segment.

00:17:42 ◼   ► That, again, he was never bad, and he was always rehearsed.

00:17:48 ◼   ► These are guys who do their homework, right?

00:17:50 ◼   ► But I think that the pressure of the moment

00:17:52 ◼   ► led them to be a little reserved

00:17:55 ◼   ► and focused on not making a mistake.

00:17:58 ◼   ► And I think that what you see is

00:18:00 ◼   ► as they do it over and over again and they get confident,

00:18:03 ◼   ► is that they can lighten up a little bit.

00:18:05 ◼   ► There's a certain looseness.

00:18:06 ◼   ► the body language and in the inflection as the words come out that you, you know, certainly see

00:18:12 ◼   ► it with Tim Cook now. And I thought this time that Williams leveled up, you know, like he leveled up

00:18:20 ◼   ► a grade level in terms of his on stage presence and really did a good job. Well, and let's be

00:18:25 ◼   ► honest, the stuff that that Williams has announced to date, minus this last keynote, haven't been the

00:18:33 ◼   ► most exciting products, hugely important products, but not the most exciting. So you know, talking

00:18:39 ◼   ► about research kit and what hospitals can do and diseases and all that wildly important stuff that

00:18:46 ◼   ► Apple is doing, but it's not like a new watch or a new phone, you know, it's hard to show the

00:18:52 ◼   ► exuberance for that kind of stuff. But yes, I agree with you. I mean, he still ran over everything,

00:19:01 ◼   ► He took us through, and I was impressed.

00:19:06 ◼   ► - So in the previous ones,

00:19:08 ◼   ► Kevin Lynch was the guy who did a lot of it,

00:19:10 ◼   ► and it was a little bit more of an emphasis on software.

00:19:15 ◼   ► And again, I think it's,

00:19:17 ◼   ► wasn't Kevin Lynch at WWDC?

00:19:20 ◼   ► I think he was.

00:19:20 ◼   ► And it's the same way that Craig Federighi was up on WWDC

00:19:24 ◼   ► to talk about iOS 10.

00:19:25 ◼   ► And there is, I've written about this

00:19:30 ◼   ► in response to people talking about the diversity

00:19:33 ◼   ► of the people who are on stage, that it matters,

00:19:36 ◼   ► but the way it works isn't that Apple just picks people,

00:19:41 ◼   ► who's gonna do this, well let's find someone

00:19:42 ◼   ► to talk about this.

00:19:43 ◼   ► Whoever is up there talking about whatever it is

00:19:46 ◼   ► they're talking about has a direct relationship

00:19:50 ◼   ► with the actual service or product, right?

00:19:53 ◼   ► It's not like there's a pool of spokespeople

00:19:54 ◼   ► who Apple picks out of the company,

00:19:57 ◼   ► and this one does that and this one does that.

00:19:59 ◼   ► Williams is doing the watch because he's directly in charge of the watch and I

00:20:03 ◼   ► you know it you know there's crossover and there certainly are multiple people

00:20:09 ◼   ► who could do certain things you know like it's not like they couldn't have

00:20:14 ◼   ► brought Federighi up again to talk about iOS 10 and they could have like I did

00:20:20 ◼   ► the first time they did watch hardware have Kevin Lynch talk about the software

00:20:23 ◼   ► because Kevin Lynch is in charge of the software but I think you know it's it's

00:20:28 ◼   ► been a very predictable Apple year in terms of who's on stage for what with at WWDC.

00:20:35 ◼   ► You know, you don't see, you know, it's the second year in a row where Schiller wasn't on stage at

00:20:40 ◼   ► WWDC because it was so software focused and let's let Federighi do it and Federighi is a really good

00:20:45 ◼   ► speaker. He is a really good speaker but he has that that fun side of him, you know, I mean,

00:20:52 ◼   ► you know, you were talking before about about Williams and and Tim when when they first started

00:20:58 ◼   ► They were not stiff, but very conservative.

00:21:01 ◼   ► Pete: Reserved, right?

00:21:02 ◼   ► Pete: Reserved, yeah. And Federicchi is just the opposite of that. You know,

00:21:08 ◼   ► he goes out and it's like, his hands are going and he's walking around and he's joking and, you know.

00:21:13 ◼   ► Pete; Well, he had an ad lib this year, right, where there was, he was going over the new photo

00:21:17 ◼   ► stuff and one of the photos was like, what was it? It was like a weird group of, it was like a weird

00:21:23 ◼   ► group of kids and something and it just, it was like, it's just a very odd photo and he goes,

00:21:27 ◼   ► you know, that's a really odd photo. And everybody laughed, you know. That was a total ad lib.

00:21:32 ◼   ► Pete: I like it. I like Craig's talks because he does get to the point, but he brings

00:21:39 ◼   ► some lightheartedness to it too. And he's become a superstar. I mean, go to WDC and people are

00:21:47 ◼   ► pictures of him and you know, it's crazy. They do that more with him than with you.

00:21:54 ◼   ► Oh, without question.

00:21:56 ◼   ► I've been with you at WDC. You know, people are pushing me out of the way to take pictures with you.

00:22:01 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like the only place where I really get that. But, and I like it. I inflected that

00:22:06 ◼   ► poorly. I do enjoy it. But it's, there's a subset of, it's a significant subset at WDC of people

00:22:12 ◼   ► who are like daring fireball fans or, you know, you see, and you do see a lot of daring fireball

00:22:17 ◼   ► t-shirts, which is always a thrill for me. But it's clearly a subset. Whereas I think every single

00:22:22 ◼   ► person who's there knows who Craig Federighi is. I mean because they all watch the keynote, right?

00:22:26 ◼   ► I mean that's why they're nobody gets to WWDC by accident. And you can't miss that hair. Right,

00:22:31 ◼   ► exactly. He's also a very distinctive looking person. It's not like there's a lot of guys who

00:22:37 ◼   ► look like Craig Federighi. Anyway, Apple Watch. I thought that this was, you know, I'm not surprised.

00:22:43 ◼   ► I am not surprised given the price, given how many I see around on people's wrists. I mean certainly

00:22:50 ◼   ► when you're in San Francisco, God, you see Apple watches everywhere.

00:22:53 ◼   ► Everywhere.

00:22:54 ◼   ► But even here in Philadelphia, which is not a particularly tech-oriented or cutting-edge town,

00:23:01 ◼   ► I see an awful—ever since last Christmas, I've really started seeing an awful lot of them.

00:23:05 ◼   ► But I thought it was really an eye-opening thing. Tim Cook, right before he introduced Jeff Williams,

00:23:10 ◼   ► put up a thing and said, "Here were the top 10 watch companies by revenue in 2014,

00:23:16 ◼   ► and here's the list in 2015 and Apple was second on the list only to Rolex

00:23:21 ◼   ► and they and then he of course added we were only we were only on sale for eight months of the year

00:23:27 ◼   ► yeah and the other thing that was really interesting about that list I don't have it handy

00:23:32 ◼   ► I should see if I could get a link to it but it was really really interesting to me how that list

00:23:38 ◼   ► from one to ten jumped back and forth between premium, like again Rolex was number one,

00:23:46 ◼   ► and mass market. I think number two previously was fossil and they got Apple moved them down to

00:23:54 ◼   ► three. So right there at one, two was sort of the yin and yang of the watch market, right? Where

00:24:01 ◼   ► Rolex is, you know, you're walking, you know, just to walk out of the store with a Rolex,

00:24:05 ◼   ► you're talking $4,000, $5,000, $6,000 for stainless steel,

00:24:09 ◼   ► not gold, not diamond.

00:24:12 ◼   ► That's your base model.

00:24:13 ◼   ► And then fossil, I think you could get a nice fossil watch

00:24:17 ◼   ► for $70 or $80.

00:24:20 ◼   ► And the whole list was sort of like that, where there's

00:24:23 ◼   ► Omegas that are $6,000, $7,000, $8,000.

00:24:27 ◼   ► I forget, there were some companies that sell $20,000,

00:24:29 ◼   ► $30,000 watches, and others that are like Citizen and Seiko,

00:24:35 ◼   ► who are mass market 75 to 200 dollar watches. So I thought that was really interesting and

00:24:42 ◼   ► it's interesting to me that Apple sort of, the Apple Watch sort of straddles those,

00:24:47 ◼   ► you know, those two worlds. Now you like watches beyond Apple Watch. Do you have expensive watches?

00:24:55 ◼   ► I have one. Okay and how do you use that? Like just like you normally would and why would you

00:25:05 ◼   ► rather the analog than an Apple Watch?

00:25:08 ◼   ► Because I still like it and I still think the most important reason that I wear it is

00:25:17 ◼   ► just to sell the time and when I travel, like if I take a vacation, it's, you know, sometimes

00:25:24 ◼   ► I take the Apple, I treat the Apple Watch as one of several watches that I own, but

00:25:29 ◼   ► primarily just wear it too. I don't know though. I don't know how it's gonna, you

00:25:37 ◼   ► know, and I don't love Apple Watch that much. There was a period when I

00:25:44 ◼   ► first started wearing it where, because it was new and I was testing it and I

00:25:48 ◼   ► wanted to get to know it where I wore it every day. And I will say that the fitness

00:25:52 ◼   ► tracking stuff does, it reinforces wearing it every day because you want to

00:25:55 ◼   ► keep streaks going. Right. I mean you know this. I mean you've written about this as

00:25:59 ◼   ► as extensively as anybody that it's literally changed

00:26:02 ◼   ► your lifestyle and your physical health.

00:26:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, it has.

00:26:05 ◼   ► - And the streak definitely matters.

00:26:07 ◼   ► I think the more you get into that,

00:26:08 ◼   ► you more you wanna wear it all the time.

00:26:09 ◼   ► But then once you stop wearing it all the time

00:26:11 ◼   ► and the streaks aren't there, it's not as...

00:26:15 ◼   ► I don't feel compelled to wear it every day.

00:26:20 ◼   ► Typically, I'll just say in rough description,

00:26:23 ◼   ► I often wear my Apple Watch on weekdays while I work.

00:26:28 ◼   ► It's useful like when I'm up and I can you know

00:26:30 ◼   ► if I'm just getting up to go get more fizzy water or go downstairs and pour another cup of coffee and

00:26:34 ◼   ► Notification comes in I don't even have to have my iPhone with me. I can just look at my wrist and see what it is

00:26:40 ◼   ► When I do go running it's during the day obviously, I mean, I guess some people run at night

00:26:46 ◼   ► But I think in the city, it's it's a little dangerous, but you know, I try to run a couple times a week

00:26:51 ◼   ► So I have my watch I always wear the watch for that so I get the fitness tracking

00:26:56 ◼   ► But then at night and as on weekends, I usually wear just my regular watch because I don't care about notifications

00:27:02 ◼   ► Really? Yeah, see I kind of like the notifications because it

00:27:09 ◼   ► Means that I can deal with stuff if I need to and leave it if I don't

00:27:13 ◼   ► you know on the watch, it's very easy to get a notification if I get something from

00:27:19 ◼   ► You know Sean and it says hey whenever you get a minute give me a call

00:27:26 ◼   ► as opposed to if I get something from you and it says I need to talk to you right away

00:27:31 ◼   ► okay well I can I can look at my watch and see Shawn's and say oh I don't need to do anything

00:27:37 ◼   ► I can continue doing what I'm doing as opposed to picking up the phone and seeing Shawn's message

00:27:41 ◼   ► and you know saying no okay I'll call later and then all there's three emails and oh there's

00:27:48 ◼   ► something else that's going on I might as well check Twitter while I'm here and it's a 20 minute

00:27:52 ◼   ► endeavor every time you pick up the phone. You know, where is my watch?

00:27:56 ◼   ► You weren't a watch person before though, right? No. And I've said all along, one of the things I

00:28:02 ◼   ► said in my watch review this week that I got a lot of things wrong in my first watch review,

00:28:07 ◼   ► but I think conversely, Apple got a lot of things wrong in their first version of how the watch

00:28:11 ◼   ► works and what they do. But one of the things I stand behind and I think I got right, right from

00:28:19 ◼   ► from the start is that a big chunk of Apple Watch's appeal

00:28:24 ◼   ► is aimed towards people who haven't been wearing a watch

00:28:27 ◼   ► for years or maybe never wore a watch

00:28:29 ◼   ► and the wrist was wide open, right?

00:28:32 ◼   ► Like, you're only gonna wear it,

00:28:35 ◼   ► like part of the basic, I mean, this sounds super obvious,

00:28:39 ◼   ► but you have to think about it.

00:28:40 ◼   ► It really, you know, it's true.

00:28:43 ◼   ► Just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's untrue.

00:28:45 ◼   ► Is that for anybody to buy an Apple Watch,

00:28:47 ◼   ► they need to have a wrist where they're gonna put it.

00:28:51 ◼   ► And if you've got like, already wear a watch that you love

00:28:55 ◼   ► and you have no interest in stopping to wear,

00:28:57 ◼   ► you're not gonna buy an Apple Watch.

00:28:59 ◼   ► Right, it's, you know, this is just a fact.

00:29:03 ◼   ► I think a big part of the success of Apple Watch

00:29:05 ◼   ► is there were an awful lot of wrists out there

00:29:09 ◼   ► that had nothing on them at all.

00:29:10 ◼   ► Or maybe they had something like a Fitbit

00:29:12 ◼   ► or something like that.

00:29:13 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:29:14 ◼   ► - Instead of a traditional watch.

00:29:16 ◼   ► And the value proposition of Apple Watch

00:29:18 ◼   ► compared to a fitness band was like,

00:29:21 ◼   ► yeah, I'll just take this off, put it in a drawer,

00:29:23 ◼   ► and get something that's better.

00:29:25 ◼   ► - No, you're right, you're right about that.

00:29:28 ◼   ► - And a couple of other people I know who are watch guys,

00:29:31 ◼   ► and I say that deliberately because in my experience,

00:29:35 ◼   ► people who are a little bit more interested in watch

00:29:38 ◼   ► do tend to be men, and it's not to say

00:29:40 ◼   ► that there aren't women who aren't watch collectors,

00:29:42 ◼   ► but it's, you know, being quote unquote into watches

00:29:46 ◼   ► is overwhelmingly a male thing.

00:29:48 ◼   ► And I think the reason why is because women have

00:29:51 ◼   ► all sorts of options for jewelry.

00:29:55 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:29:56 ◼   ► - And for most men and their personal styles,

00:29:59 ◼   ► the really only place for jewelry in most men's,

00:30:03 ◼   ► and certainly the way I dress and, you know,

00:30:06 ◼   ► my personal sense of style,

00:30:09 ◼   ► the only place where I'm gonna put jewelry is on my wrist,

00:30:12 ◼   ► Which is, you know, and I'm not saying anything

00:30:14 ◼   ► that a lot of people haven't realized, but that's why.

00:30:16 ◼   ► And I think for watch guys, the Apple Watch

00:30:19 ◼   ► is less appealing than from people

00:30:21 ◼   ► who weren't into watches before.

00:30:23 ◼   ► - Now, the only thing that would make me

00:30:26 ◼   ► not wear an Apple Watch at this point

00:30:30 ◼   ► is if my father gave me his watch.

00:30:33 ◼   ► - Hmm. - Yeah, because he got

00:30:35 ◼   ► that watch from his father.

00:30:38 ◼   ► So if I had that, I don't know if I would wear it

00:30:41 ◼   ► or what I would do with it.

00:30:42 ◼   ► I haven't really thought about that,

00:30:44 ◼   ► but that's about the only situation I can think where

00:30:47 ◼   ► I would wear something else.

00:30:50 ◼   ► - I know a couple people who are really into R racket.

00:30:52 ◼   ► Computers, however it is they make their paycheck,

00:30:57 ◼   ► they're either writing about computers or they're writing

00:30:58 ◼   ► code or they're somehow involved in computers,

00:31:01 ◼   ► who are into watches and it's always mechanical watches

00:31:06 ◼   ► or almost always mechanical watches,

00:31:07 ◼   ► meaning watches that don't take a battery,

00:31:10 ◼   ► that are completely mechanical devices.

00:31:13 ◼   ► And I think there's something to it where

00:31:16 ◼   ► if you're doing something computery and electronic all day,

00:31:20 ◼   ► there is something appealing

00:31:22 ◼   ► about a completely non-electronic device.

00:31:30 ◼   ► But that still works algorithmically.

00:31:33 ◼   ► That's the thing is when you get into watches,

00:31:35 ◼   ► you start learning about the movements

00:31:39 ◼   ► how the actual watch goes. And you know if you know that it's like well if this

00:31:42 ◼   ► spring has a certain tension it'll push this and this gear will turn at a

00:31:46 ◼   ► certain rate and that gear will turn at this rate and this thing oscillates and

00:31:50 ◼   ► you end up with you know a second hand that moves it eight times a second

00:31:55 ◼   ► between here and there which creates the illusion that it's just smoothly

00:31:58 ◼   ► sweeping around the hand you know if this then that it's it's algorithmic and

00:32:02 ◼   ► I feel like there's an awful lot of people who are like programmers or have

00:32:06 ◼   ► programming type mindset who if they were alive a hundred years ago they'd be watchmakers.

00:32:11 ◼   ► I've had this conversation with Dave Nanian of SuperDuper. Yeah. And Dave is a huge watch guy.

00:32:18 ◼   ► He's really, when I first started getting into watches he taught me I would say probably 75%

00:32:22 ◼   ► of what I know and has some really good, has taste that aligns with mine in a lot of ways.

00:32:29 ◼   ► And he, you know, he said the same, you know, he's, I probably just ripped off that whole

00:32:35 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:32:37 ◼   ► I'd probably just rip that whole thing off from him

00:32:40 ◼   ► from like a conversation I had with him

00:32:41 ◼   ► at like the C4 conference like 10 years ago

00:32:43 ◼   ► when I first started getting into watches.

00:32:45 ◼   ► Like the correlation between the logic

00:32:47 ◼   ► of programming and computers

00:32:49 ◼   ► and the exact same type of thinking

00:32:51 ◼   ► but in a completely mechanical, non-electronic sense

00:32:54 ◼   ► of mechanical watches.

00:32:55 ◼   ► So anyway.

00:32:56 ◼   ► - Dave's gonna sue you now for taking his idea.

00:32:58 ◼   ► - Well, go buy Super Duper.

00:33:01 ◼   ► - There you go.

00:33:02 ◼   ► - Call it even.

00:33:02 ◼   ► - Call it even.

00:33:03 ◼   ► - It's a great disc cloning utility for Mac.

00:33:04 ◼   ► If you've never used it, you really ought to look at it.

00:33:06 ◼   ► I've been using it since forever.

00:33:08 ◼   ► Me too.

00:33:09 ◼   ► So hi, Dave.

00:33:10 ◼   ► Yeah, anyway, the event.

00:33:11 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:33:15 ◼   ► So we left off at Williams.

00:33:18 ◼   ► Right.

00:33:19 ◼   ► What was next?

00:33:20 ◼   ► The watch was there.

00:33:22 ◼   ► I thought it was strong.

00:33:23 ◼   ► Was it Shiller?

00:33:25 ◼   ► Yeah, probably, right?

00:33:26 ◼   ► I mean, that's really all there was now that I think about it.

00:33:29 ◼   ► I left my-- oh, no, here's my notebook.

00:33:32 ◼   ► So Apple Watch came out at 1025.

00:33:34 ◼   ► Apple Watch Series 2, the Nike stuff,

00:33:39 ◼   ► and then 1054 was iPhone.

00:33:42 ◼   ► So watch got 30 minutes, and then Schiller was on

00:33:46 ◼   ► for 55 minutes talking about the iPhone.

00:33:49 ◼   ► I thought Schiller was great, and you already said that,

00:33:51 ◼   ► but it was almost the canonical,

00:33:55 ◼   ► Phil Schiller introduces a new iPhone introduction.

00:34:00 ◼   ► Show her is, it's tough to explain Show her, but you tend to believe Show her when he's talking.

00:34:11 ◼   ► You know, unlike some of these, like you were talking about before with spokespeople.

00:34:15 ◼   ► Pete: Yeah.

00:34:16 ◼   ► Pete; Show her's not a spokesperson. He believes what he's saying. He gets up, he tells you. And

00:34:21 ◼   ► one thing, I actually thought this was very interesting and I think that it happened more

00:34:29 ◼   ► this time than with any other Apple keynote. They not only told you what the new features were,

00:34:38 ◼   ► they told you why they were important. Yeah, I think that's true.

00:34:42 ◼   ► You know, so when Shiller was talking about the camera and he would say, you know,

00:34:50 ◼   ► it's a six layer camera and it does a billion actions in 25 milliseconds and, you know,

00:34:58 ◼   ► all this stuff that's fine that that's a great thing to say it's it's perfect for a keynote

00:35:04 ◼   ► that you say all that stuff but then he stopped and said and here's what happens during that

00:35:10 ◼   ► process here are the things that we do and here's what happens to your picture and he went through

00:35:15 ◼   ► showing the picture during the six layers and all the things that's going on inside there and as a

00:35:24 ◼   ► you know, a very poor photographer myself, I look at that and say, "Oh, okay, so that means that

00:35:32 ◼   ► it's going to be, I'm going to be able to take better pictures." And I kind of understand why.

00:35:36 ◼   ► I think that was important.

00:35:39 ◼   ► Pete: Yeah. Here's an interesting fact. I just pecked this out and correct me if I'm wrong,

00:35:44 ◼   ► but this is, and we can talk about this, actually I do want to talk about it. This was the 10th

00:35:50 ◼   ► generation iPhone.

00:35:52 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:35:53 ◼   ► - I'm not counting, iPhones I'm not counting

00:35:55 ◼   ► that are sort of half generations are the Verizon iPhone 4

00:35:59 ◼   ► which introduced CDMA and this is why,

00:36:03 ◼   ► the bigger reason I think it deserves

00:36:04 ◼   ► the half generation designation is it had

00:36:07 ◼   ► the different antenna layout that ended up being used

00:36:12 ◼   ► by the 4S a year later for all of the iPhone 4Ss

00:36:16 ◼   ► but the Verizon iPhone 4 had the 4S style

00:36:20 ◼   ► antenna lines that didn't have the antenna gate attenuation issue of the iPhone 4. I'm not counting

00:36:26 ◼   ► the iPhone 5c, which was plastic, but which had the exact same internal specifications as the iPhone

00:36:34 ◼   ► 5 the year before. It was literally just the outer casing that was different and the display and

00:36:39 ◼   ► everything inside was the same as the iPhone 5. And I'm not counting the iPhone SE, which is of

00:36:45 ◼   ► all of those oddball off-generation things is the one that perhaps most, you know, qualifies as a

00:36:51 ◼   ► half-generation because it's, you know, really, really interesting technology-wise. But I'm just

00:36:55 ◼   ► talking about flagship top-of-the-line iPhones. The iPhone 7 and 7 Plus are the 10th iPhones.

00:37:02 ◼   ► Of those 10, only three were introduced by Steve Jobs. The original, the 3G, the 3GS was during

00:37:09 ◼   ► Jobs' first medical leave, and Schiller did it at WWDC,

00:37:13 ◼   ► it was still when they were doing them at WWDC.

00:37:15 ◼   ► Jobs was back for the iPhone 4, the first retina one in 2010

00:37:20 ◼   ► but then the 2011 was the 4S which was introduced

00:37:23 ◼   ► at the sort of somber maudlin town hall.

00:37:28 ◼   ► I mean that's almost stunning.

00:37:30 ◼   ► If you think about how many people

00:37:31 ◼   ► were at the event last week,

00:37:34 ◼   ► that place was packed.

00:37:37 ◼   ► - Yeah it was. - To think that they

00:37:38 ◼   ► I actually did an iPhone introduction

00:37:39 ◼   ► in the 100 person town hall, it was amazing.

00:37:42 ◼   ► But that was the one that was introduced

00:37:43 ◼   ► just a few days before Jobs died.

00:37:45 ◼   ► - I think it was the day before.

00:37:48 ◼   ► - The day before, yeah.

00:37:49 ◼   ► - I think so.

00:37:50 ◼   ► - And you knew the day, I mean, Tim and those guys

00:37:53 ◼   ► were close enough that they knew.

00:37:56 ◼   ► So out of 10 phones, Schiller's done seven of them.

00:38:01 ◼   ► Which I think, in my mind,

00:38:02 ◼   ► it's like that doesn't sound right to me.

00:38:04 ◼   ► It seems like I seem to remember Steve Jobs

00:38:06 ◼   ► introducing lots of iPhones, but it's actually not true.

00:38:08 ◼   ► - That's an interesting piece of research.

00:38:14 ◼   ► I didn't know that.

00:38:15 ◼   ► I think, and you know, he's always been good at it,

00:38:20 ◼   ► but I think this one was as good as ever.

00:38:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, I just, I enjoy when Phil goes up to talk.

00:38:28 ◼   ► Maybe it's, you know, he's just no nonsense.

00:38:32 ◼   ► He gets up there and he's gonna tell you,

00:38:34 ◼   ► and then every once in a while,

00:38:35 ◼   ► I loved, I love this line when he was up talking about the phone and he said, "We're introducing

00:38:42 ◼   ► another new color.

00:38:44 ◼   ► We call it black."

00:38:48 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:38:49 ◼   ► I mean, I just wanted to stand up and do the slow clap, you know, like, brilliant.

00:38:55 ◼   ► That was brilliant, Phil.

00:38:56 ◼   ► You know, he had the, he had the pauses.

00:38:59 ◼   ► It's black.

00:39:00 ◼   ► It's a black iPhone.

00:39:01 ◼   ► We call it, you know, is it going to be matte black?

00:39:04 ◼   ► Is it gonna be this fancy color like space gray?

00:39:06 ◼   ► Is it gonna be space black?

00:39:08 ◼   ► No, we call it black.

00:39:10 ◼   ► - Brilliant.

00:39:11 ◼   ► - There's the whole why did we remove the antenna jack thing

00:39:15 ◼   ► and I'm gonna give you three reasons.

00:39:16 ◼   ► But first, courage.

00:39:19 ◼   ► That was still, I still see people even in like

00:39:21 ◼   ► their iPhone reviews this week bringing that up.

00:39:24 ◼   ► And I wrote a piece, I'm on board with it.

00:39:29 ◼   ► I don't care what anybody says.

00:39:32 ◼   ► And the pushback is always,

00:39:36 ◼   ► it's on like a sort of moral spectrum.

00:39:40 ◼   ► That this, you know, Apple is doing this for profit,

00:39:44 ◼   ► they're going to make, they're doing it just to make money

00:39:46 ◼   ► from AirPods and Beats headphones.

00:39:49 ◼   ► - That's so stupid.

00:39:49 ◼   ► - All right, but even if it is,

00:39:50 ◼   ► even if, let's just concede the point

00:39:52 ◼   ► that it's a money grab, all right?

00:39:54 ◼   ► Let's just say for the sake of argument

00:39:55 ◼   ► that it is a money grab.

00:39:56 ◼   ► It doesn't defeat the point that it takes courage

00:39:58 ◼   ► to do something unpopular.

00:40:00 ◼   ► That's the, it's like I wrote an article,

00:40:02 ◼   ► I thought it was pretty clear, specifically that doing

00:40:05 ◼   ► something that you believe to be right,

00:40:07 ◼   ► but that you know is going to be unpopular,

00:40:10 ◼   ► when there is right at hand a totally non-controversial

00:40:15 ◼   ► option in front of you.

00:40:16 ◼   ► Like if the new iPhone 7 still had the headphone jack,

00:40:19 ◼   ► there would be no outcry.

00:40:20 ◼   ► There's nobody who is going to be outraged

00:40:23 ◼   ► that there's still a standard headphone jack.

00:40:26 ◼   ► - Right. - Right?

00:40:26 ◼   ► It's not controversial choice A

00:40:28 ◼   ► versus controversial choice B.

00:40:30 ◼   ► It's controversial choice A versus,

00:40:33 ◼   ► eh, you know, that's the way it's always been choice B,

00:40:37 ◼   ► which is not controversial.

00:40:38 ◼   ► And that's why most companies don't make decisions

00:40:41 ◼   ► like this before Apple does.

00:40:42 ◼   ► That's why Apple was the first to get rid of the CD-ROM,

00:40:45 ◼   ► or DVD drive in laptops.

00:40:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the floppy disk, you know.

00:40:50 ◼   ► - Well, you know, everybody says floppy disk,

00:40:52 ◼   ► and it's a good example, it's a great example,

00:40:54 ◼   ► but it's so far in the past.

00:40:56 ◼   ► Like, the DVD one is fairly recent,

00:41:00 ◼   ► And the outcry was loud.

00:41:02 ◼   ► It was like, well, how the hell am I going to install the OS?

00:41:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:09 ◼   ► How am I going to install Adobe Studio?

00:41:13 ◼   ► It comes on a DVD.

00:41:14 ◼   ► It's like, well, guess what?

00:41:15 ◼   ► Adobe's got to get their act together and give it

00:41:16 ◼   ► to you a different way.

00:41:17 ◼   ► And they did.

00:41:18 ◼   ► And they do.

00:41:18 ◼   ► They did.

00:41:19 ◼   ► And nobody-- it seems ridiculous now.

00:41:22 ◼   ► Can you imagine?

00:41:23 ◼   ► I mean, think about how many years it's been since you've

00:41:26 ◼   ► had a laptop with a spinning DVD drive.

00:41:27 ◼   ► Remember how when you were typing,

00:41:29 ◼   ► could feel it spinning. Yeah, yeah. And you could hear it. Right. I can't imagine having one now. I

00:41:36 ◼   ► don't need one. And you know what? I don't need a headphone jack either. And I had so many people

00:41:43 ◼   ► come to me and say, you know, on Twitter or email and say, "Well, maybe you just don't have a good

00:41:50 ◼   ► set of headphones? Well I have a set at analog set you know with it the headphone

00:41:59 ◼   ► eighth inch thing a set of future sonics in-ear monitors they're $800 they're the best monitors

00:42:09 ◼   ► on the market bar none I don't care if you talk about ultimate ears or any of that other stuff

00:42:16 ◼   ► These are the best. The guy that invented in-ear monitors started Future Sonics,

00:42:23 ◼   ► so he knows his audio. And you previously used those with your iPhone?

00:42:28 ◼   ► Yeah. And I use them to mix music. I use them to listen, I use them to mix, I use them for

00:42:36 ◼   ► everything because they are the absolute best in-ear monitors that you can get. As a matter

00:42:42 ◼   ► of fact, ear monitors is a registered trademark of his. Lots of people use it, but it's his

00:42:49 ◼   ► trademark. So, this guy knows his audio. And I put on, when I put in the Future Sonics,

00:42:57 ◼   ► I can actually hear things in songs that I cannot hear on other headphones. So, it's…

00:43:05 ◼   ► Pete: You're coming at, in other words, you're coming at this from the perspective of somebody

00:43:08 ◼   ► who knows his shit and cares about good headphones.

00:43:11 ◼   ► Pete: I care about good headphones. And if I didn't, I wouldn't be using

00:43:16 ◼   ► Futuresonics, but I do. So, when people come to me and say,

00:43:19 ◼   ► "You don't, maybe you don't have a good pair of headphones if you did," then you would know that

00:43:24 ◼   ► this isn't good. Well, I send them a picture of the headphones that I do have from Futuresonics

00:43:29 ◼   ► and they just write back and say, "Oh." Well, you know, I -

00:43:31 ◼   ► Pete; So, what are you doing with them? Are you using the adapter?

00:43:34 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:43:34 ◼   ► Pete; Yeah, I can use the adapter. It works fine.

00:43:37 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:43:37 ◼   ► I don't know what the major problem is with these people.

00:43:41 ◼   ► And I wrote in my piece, okay, here's your choice.

00:43:45 ◼   ► You can have a 100 year old headphone adapter or you can have

00:43:49 ◼   ► image stabilization, a bigger battery, and there was

00:43:53 ◼   ► another thing. Which would you rather have? I say ditch the headphone

00:43:57 ◼   ► jack. Because most people, you've got to

00:44:01 ◼   ► remember that Apple's going for the biggest common denominator

00:44:05 ◼   ► here and for most people when they say oh they're taking out the headphone

00:44:09 ◼   ► jack oh my god I'm not gonna be able to listen to music oh no Apple's gonna

00:44:12 ◼   ► include a set of headphones oh okay well fine and Apple's gonna include an

00:44:18 ◼   ► adapter that will let you use your old headphones oh okay that's fine yeah

00:44:23 ◼   ► people don't care I wrote earlier when I read with my one of my favorite

00:44:30 ◼   ► headlines of the year, jack off.

00:44:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:44:34 ◼   ► Like my, here's what I think Apple should,

00:44:38 ◼   ► both should and will do with, you know,

00:44:41 ◼   ► what are they gonna put in the box?

00:44:43 ◼   ► That was my question heading into this.

00:44:45 ◼   ► Like let's just accept that the headphone jack is gone.

00:44:48 ◼   ► The rumors were so rampant from the supply chain.

00:44:50 ◼   ► What are they gonna put in the box?

00:44:53 ◼   ► And I was hoping they would put wireless headphones

00:44:57 ◼   ► in the box.

00:44:58 ◼   ► - Right.

00:44:59 ◼   ► and I didn't think that they would put the adapter,

00:45:04 ◼   ► but it was complicated because I said,

00:45:07 ◼   ► but I think it makes sense that if they're gonna put

00:45:10 ◼   ► wired lightning headphones in the box,

00:45:14 ◼   ► which is what they're actually doing,

00:45:15 ◼   ► then it makes sense to put the adapter in too.

00:45:18 ◼   ► - Yeah. - 'Cause they're saying,

00:45:20 ◼   ► by default, what you get are wired headphones

00:45:23 ◼   ► and you can use ours, which will plug in a lightning,

00:45:25 ◼   ► or you can use whatever ones you want

00:45:27 ◼   ► that'll plug into this little adapter,

00:45:30 ◼   ► and we'll sell the adapters for the lowest price

00:45:32 ◼   ► we can possibly get away with selling it for nine bucks.

00:45:34 ◼   ► So you can buy a bunch of them in case you lose them

00:45:36 ◼   ► or in case you want to attach them to a couple of pairs.

00:45:39 ◼   ► I think that makes total sense.

00:45:40 ◼   ► My argument that they wouldn't include the adapter was,

00:45:43 ◼   ► I think, I'd have to go back and read the article,

00:45:45 ◼   ► is mostly if they include wireless earbuds in the box,

00:45:48 ◼   ► then they shouldn't include the adapter

00:45:50 ◼   ► because the adapter would be saying,

00:45:51 ◼   ► you should be using wireless wired headphones.

00:45:55 ◼   ► And it's very clear, very clear for me

00:45:58 ◼   ► that the reason that they're not including

00:45:59 ◼   ► wireless headphones is that the AirPods

00:46:01 ◼   ► are too expensive to make.

00:46:03 ◼   ► They need to be in the box, they need to be like

00:46:07 ◼   ► nine, $10 cost of goods.

00:46:10 ◼   ► And the AirPods are way, way,

00:46:14 ◼   ► let's just hold that, we'll go back to the AirPods

00:46:15 ◼   ► later in the show.

00:46:16 ◼   ► Let's try to stick to the event, but we'll come to it.

00:46:19 ◼   ► But bottom line is they had to do it this way

00:46:21 ◼   ► with the AirPods because there's no way

00:46:22 ◼   ► they could sell them at that price.

00:46:24 ◼   ► - I agree, and I said early on that if Apple takes out

00:46:28 ◼   ► the headphone jack, they will include an adapter.

00:46:32 ◼   ► I was pretty sure that they would.

00:46:34 ◼   ► Because they wouldn't want everybody to be,

00:46:38 ◼   ► they're already gonna be screaming enough,

00:46:39 ◼   ► even though they don't know what they're screaming about,

00:46:42 ◼   ► that if they include an adapter, that will just stop it.

00:46:47 ◼   ► - What misled me was that you can get like $30,

00:46:52 ◼   ► Some sets of Bluetooth headsets now are only like 30 bucks,

00:46:56 ◼   ► you know, like, and they're, you know,

00:46:57 ◼   ► just regular old Bluetooth.

00:46:58 ◼   ► And that misled me and thought maybe Apple could make

00:47:01 ◼   ► their own that are like 30 bucks.

00:47:02 ◼   ► But knowing how AirPods work now and that they're both

00:47:06 ◼   ► little computers, they're literally, I mean,

00:47:08 ◼   ► they're not really just headphones.

00:47:09 ◼   ► The W1 is like a computing chip.

00:47:12 ◼   ► They're little computers that are in your ear.

00:47:14 ◼   ► And that is how they do the, you know,

00:47:18 ◼   ► both ears are in sync without a wire between them,

00:47:20 ◼   ► which is a really, really hard problem to solve.

00:47:23 ◼   ► That's why most Bluetooth headphones have some kind of

00:47:25 ◼   ► electrical cable between the left and right

00:47:27 ◼   ► so that they can keep it in sync.

00:47:29 ◼   ► Usually, one of them is the little Bluetooth receiver,

00:47:32 ◼   ► and there's a wire going under your chin

00:47:34 ◼   ► or behind your neck to the other one,

00:47:35 ◼   ► and the other one is literally just as dumb of a headphone

00:47:39 ◼   ► as any headphone.

00:47:40 ◼   ► But they're little computers, and there's no way,

00:47:44 ◼   ► they are not little $30 things.

00:47:46 ◼   ► But anyway, we'll come back to that.

00:47:49 ◼   ► I thought Schiller did a great job.

00:47:51 ◼   ► I thought the courage thing,

00:47:52 ◼   ► I guess it could have been phrased better

00:47:54 ◼   ► because it proved so controversial, but I, you know.

00:47:58 ◼   ► - I think he was absolutely right though,

00:48:00 ◼   ► and for the reasons that you outlined.

00:48:02 ◼   ► It did take a lot of courage to do what they did.

00:48:05 ◼   ► - Whether you agree or disagree with him,

00:48:07 ◼   ► I really, here's the main thing,

00:48:08 ◼   ► and I think this is all the way back

00:48:10 ◼   ► to the first thing you said about Phil on stage,

00:48:12 ◼   ► is that he's honest.

00:48:14 ◼   ► That's, whether you think it's right or wrong,

00:48:16 ◼   ► that's what Phil Schiller believes.

00:48:18 ◼   ► He's not telling you something that's other than

00:48:20 ◼   ► what is actually what he thinks.

00:48:23 ◼   ► - And how can you go wrong with that?

00:48:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I just think it was a good thing.

00:48:29 ◼   ► - All right, let's take a break.

00:48:30 ◼   ► Unless you have anything else for the actual

00:48:32 ◼   ► what happened on stage.

00:48:34 ◼   ► - No, I've had my sea of things.

00:48:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, let's maybe talk hands-on area afterwards.

00:48:38 ◼   ► But let me take a break first and just say,

00:48:40 ◼   ► I want to thank our first sponsor.

00:48:44 ◼   ► And it is our good friends at Global Delight.

00:48:46 ◼   ► You know these guys, they make the Mac software boom.

00:48:50 ◼   ► A couple other utilities, they've been sponsoring

00:48:53 ◼   ► the show lately.

00:48:54 ◼   ► This week, they want me to tell you about one of their

00:48:58 ◼   ► other utilities called Cap2, C-A-P-T-O.

00:49:02 ◼   ► Think it's called Cap2, maybe it's Cap-to.

00:49:05 ◼   ► You know me, I don't know how to pronounce it.

00:49:07 ◼   ► What do you think, Jim, Cap2 or Cap-to?

00:49:09 ◼   ► - What does it do?

00:49:10 ◼   ► - It's a screen capture utility.

00:49:12 ◼   ► - Oh.

00:49:13 ◼   ► - I'm gonna say Cap2.

00:49:14 ◼   ► - Cap2, yeah.

00:49:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, you know your Mac is not just a system.

00:49:18 ◼   ► You use it for creating designs,

00:49:19 ◼   ► you use it for making videos, for blogging,

00:49:21 ◼   ► for coding, for teaching, delivering podcasts,

00:49:23 ◼   ► making websites, I do a lot of those things.

00:49:26 ◼   ► Many times, you come across the need

00:49:27 ◼   ► of capturing your screen or recording it live

00:49:29 ◼   ► and then editing it to suit your requirements.

00:49:32 ◼   ► Cap2 is the screen capture and video editing app for Mac.

00:49:37 ◼   ► It is a complete all-in-one solution for screen capture.

00:49:40 ◼   ► You use Cap2 to capture an entire screen

00:49:43 ◼   ► or you can just capture just part of it.

00:49:45 ◼   ► capture just a window just to draw a rectangle. One click and then you can

00:49:49 ◼   ► record a screen live and it's in HD. When you're done capturing you can edit the

00:49:54 ◼   ► images in the video without hassle right there in CAPTU. It automatically gets

00:49:58 ◼   ► stored in well-organized folders where you can find them easily, manage your

00:50:02 ◼   ► projects. Really, really great. So if you're making like tutorial videos for

00:50:07 ◼   ► YouTube or stuff in-house, like if you work at a bigger company and you need to

00:50:12 ◼   ► make videos to train people and stuff like that. Cap2 is the answer to your

00:50:18 ◼   ► needs. Sound like a must-have app for your Mac? Then download the 15-day free

00:50:22 ◼   ► trial at cap2frommac.com. C-A-P-T-O, that's the name of the app, for M-A-C.com.

00:50:32 ◼   ► I'm sure you could just google Cap2 Mac and you'll get to the same website. Now

00:50:38 ◼   ► Now here's the best part.

00:50:39 ◼   ► No, two best parts.

00:50:41 ◼   ► Number one, three best parts.

00:50:42 ◼   ► I'm going to go back to three.

00:50:44 ◼   ► Three great things.

00:50:45 ◼   ► First, like I just said, 15 day free trial.

00:50:48 ◼   ► Go there, download it.

00:50:50 ◼   ► This is the great part of IndyMac software.

00:50:52 ◼   ► You don't have to spend any money to get it from the App Store before you do it.

00:50:55 ◼   ► Go there, download it, and see for yourself before you spend a nickel.

00:50:59 ◼   ► Number two, when you do decide to buy it, remember this coupon code, Fireball, F-I-R-E-B-A-L-L,

00:51:05 ◼   ► you will get 25% off on per purchase if you do that before October 15 or on

00:51:13 ◼   ► October 15. Don't wait till October 15 though. Do it now. You certainly have the

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00:51:22 ◼   ► off so you'll save some bucks. And here's the third thing. These guys at Global

00:51:26 ◼   ► Delight do the some of the best user interface design work of anybody in the

00:51:31 ◼   ► India bracket today. So even if you don't want a screen capture utility, go to that

00:51:35 ◼   ► website and just take a look at these screenshots. It is a gorgeous app, really

00:51:39 ◼   ► gorgeous. They sweat the details and do it right. So my thanks to Global Delight

00:51:43 ◼   ► Cap2 from Mac.com. Sounds cool. Hands-on area. When did you get in?

00:51:52 ◼   ► I, I, Pansarino and I were way up in the, way up in like the back row of where the

00:51:58 ◼   ► press sat. We literally had my, had my back to the the second level and the

00:52:02 ◼   ► Second level was all Apple people.

00:52:04 ◼   ► So I liked my seat 'cause we were dead center stage,

00:52:07 ◼   ► but it took us forever to get out.

00:52:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, I was down in the bottom section.

00:52:13 ◼   ► - Oh, that's right, I remember where you were sitting.

00:52:14 ◼   ► I do remember, yeah.

00:52:15 ◼   ► - So I get out pretty quick,

00:52:17 ◼   ► and I was among the first in there.

00:52:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, I was really late.

00:52:24 ◼   ► Panzarino and I were,

00:52:26 ◼   ► and there was a big long hallway that they built.

00:52:28 ◼   ► That just blows me away.

00:52:31 ◼   ► In addition to building, what they've done two years

00:52:36 ◼   ► in a row at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium

00:52:40 ◼   ► is build a building in a building.

00:52:42 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:52:43 ◼   ► - And this time they actually built a hallway.

00:52:46 ◼   ► I linked to it in my thoughts on the show

00:52:48 ◼   ► and I put a photo I took of it,

00:52:50 ◼   ► like a very Kubrickian hallway with white walls,

00:52:53 ◼   ► white floors, really nice lighting.

00:52:55 ◼   ► That was just there for people like me

00:52:59 ◼   ► who weren't gonna, you know,

00:53:00 ◼   ► The hands-on area was way too small to let anybody in,

00:53:02 ◼   ► so there was a long wait while you had,

00:53:05 ◼   ► as people left, they let more in.

00:53:07 ◼   ► So they built a hallway so you'd have

00:53:08 ◼   ► a nice Apple-like experience while waiting in line.

00:53:12 ◼   ► - And that's typical Apple.

00:53:13 ◼   ► I mean, I mentioned it a couple of times

00:53:15 ◼   ► in the reviews that I did,

00:53:18 ◼   ► that their attention to detail is just outstanding.

00:53:21 ◼   ► And that shows it, it's things like that.

00:53:26 ◼   ► They know that you're gonna be standing there,

00:53:27 ◼   ► well, they're not gonna have you standing there

00:53:29 ◼   ► in a concrete brick hallway.

00:53:33 ◼   ► No, they'll build a hallway for you.

00:53:35 ◼   ► - It's a nicer retail area.

00:53:37 ◼   ► I know they weren't selling anything,

00:53:38 ◼   ► but it's sort of set up like a retail Apple store.

00:53:41 ◼   ► It's a nicer retail area than most actual stores

00:53:44 ◼   ► for most companies.

00:53:45 ◼   ► And it was there for two hours.

00:53:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, for a couple hours so that we could walk through

00:53:52 ◼   ► and look at the products.

00:53:53 ◼   ► And there's a lot of Apple employees there

00:53:58 ◼   ► that are there to help and talk to you about things.

00:54:02 ◼   ► It's great.

00:54:03 ◼   ► I love having a great hands-on area.

00:54:08 ◼   ► - I don't understand the people who go in and out.

00:54:13 ◼   ► There's some of the people, I'm not gonna name names,

00:54:16 ◼   ► but there are some people who are in the same racket as us,

00:54:21 ◼   ► who if they get in early, they quick look at everything,

00:54:23 ◼   ► maybe they snap a few photos,

00:54:25 ◼   ► But it's like they have somewhere to go.

00:54:29 ◼   ► And they're like out.

00:54:31 ◼   ► I don't get it.

00:54:32 ◼   ► I mean, I'm not necessarily the last guy left in there.

00:54:34 ◼   ► Although I have been in some events.

00:54:36 ◼   ► I remember with the original iPad, the first iPad,

00:54:40 ◼   ► Dan Morin and I got our hands-- remember

00:54:41 ◼   ► there was a dock with a keyboard?

00:54:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:44 ◼   ► It's like they kind of, with the smart keyboard,

00:54:47 ◼   ► have circled back to that original idea

00:54:51 ◼   ► that maybe there should be a keyboard with the iPad.

00:54:53 ◼   ► And Dan Morin and I were just playing with this thing.

00:54:55 ◼   ► We're figuring out which keyboard shortcuts were.

00:54:57 ◼   ► And then somebody came up, and they were so nice.

00:54:59 ◼   ► And they were like, guys, we're trying to close.

00:55:02 ◼   ► And we look around, and there's nobody else except Apple boys

00:55:05 ◼   ► in the hands-on area.

00:55:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:06 ◼   ► Well--

00:55:07 ◼   ► So I'm not always the last.

00:55:08 ◼   ► But I stay until they start-- at least until they start gently

00:55:11 ◼   ► suggesting that people leave, because you can learn so much.

00:55:15 ◼   ► It's not like the Apple people who man the hands-on tables are--

00:55:21 ◼   ► they're from all over the company.

00:55:22 ◼   ► That's one of the things I think some people don't realize

00:55:24 ◼   ► is they're not just like product marketing people.

00:55:27 ◼   ► There's people from the app store,

00:55:29 ◼   ► just people who are good people people, right?

00:55:33 ◼   ► People who are good at answering questions

00:55:35 ◼   ► and being personable, but they come from all over

00:55:38 ◼   ► the company and you can make contacts

00:55:40 ◼   ► and learn, meet interesting people from Apple.

00:55:44 ◼   ► How often do we get a chance to do that?

00:55:46 ◼   ► Not often. - Not often.

00:55:47 ◼   ► And you're right, there are a lot

00:55:50 ◼   ► of interesting people there.

00:55:52 ◼   ► And I always see a lot of friends there, you know,

00:55:55 ◼   ► from Apple, and it's great.

00:55:59 ◼   ► I go in and I try and take as many decent pictures

00:56:04 ◼   ► as I can, but you know, I agree with you that

00:56:10 ◼   ► staying around and being able to use the products,

00:56:14 ◼   ► and you know, once a lot of the people leave,

00:56:17 ◼   ► once they're done with their photos and everything,

00:56:19 ◼   ► there's actually some room in there.

00:56:21 ◼   ► you know, you can walk around.

00:56:24 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:56:24 ◼   ► - And you do get a better sense of the products

00:56:28 ◼   ► 'cause now you can finally stand there and use them.

00:56:31 ◼   ► The one I think is funny is Rennie, Richie.

00:56:35 ◼   ► I mean, he'll stay to the bitter end.

00:56:36 ◼   ► He'll hide so that they have to find him and kick him out

00:56:39 ◼   ► 'cause he's doing videos and he's doing,

00:56:41 ◼   ► Rennie is funny.

00:56:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, he checks in like it's a hotel.

00:56:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:56:46 ◼   ► I texted him the last time, the last event,

00:56:49 ◼   ► I said, "You know, it was probably 3.30 in the afternoon," and I said, "Do you

00:56:54 ◼   ► want to grab a coffee?"

00:56:55 ◼   ► And he said, "I'm still in hands-on."

00:56:57 ◼   ► I said, "Jesus, Ray!

00:56:58 ◼   ► I mean, come on!"

00:57:00 ◼   ► It was funny.

00:57:02 ◼   ► I will say, over time, the hands-on areas have evolved, and it is the changing nature,

00:57:09 ◼   ► you know, Daring Fireball is still the same, and there aren't any photos there, but the

00:57:14 ◼   ► changing nature and obsession with these videos, and especially the videos, but the photos

00:57:19 ◼   ► really changed the nature of the hands-on area.

00:57:21 ◼   ► And it's unfortunate because it's worse.

00:57:24 ◼   ► So many people want to get photos,

00:57:27 ◼   ► and they want their photos to be really, really nice.

00:57:33 ◼   ► So when they finally get a chance to--

00:57:35 ◼   ► you wait around and let's say I want to try the new Jet Black--

00:57:40 ◼   ► I want to get my hands on the Jet Black iPhone.

00:57:43 ◼   ► And you wait, and you wait.

00:57:44 ◼   ► Somebody's in front of you, and they're taking a tour.

00:57:46 ◼   ► product guy or woman from Apple is there.

00:57:49 ◼   ► And they have, they're prepared with like,

00:57:52 ◼   ► three or four things, like what do you wanna see?

00:57:54 ◼   ► Do you wanna see photos?

00:57:55 ◼   ► Here, take a look.

00:57:56 ◼   ► One of the things they did in the hands-on area

00:57:58 ◼   ► for everybody was show you photos

00:58:01 ◼   ► because on the iPhone screen you could see the photos

00:58:04 ◼   ► with the high color gamut, which was,

00:58:07 ◼   ► they emphasized three or four times in the event,

00:58:09 ◼   ► this kinda sucks because our projector here

00:58:11 ◼   ► isn't high color gamut.

00:58:14 ◼   ► So what we're showing you here is not representative

00:58:16 ◼   ► of the photos you can take and what you'll see on screen

00:58:19 ◼   ► on this iPhone because you can't show high color gamut

00:58:23 ◼   ► with a non-high color gamut projector.

00:58:26 ◼   ► So they wanted to show that to people,

00:58:28 ◼   ► and they're prepared with a couple of things like that.

00:58:29 ◼   ► And then you say thank you, I say thanks,

00:58:32 ◼   ► and then step aside so that the next person

00:58:35 ◼   ► can get the same demo, and then in the meantime,

00:58:38 ◼   ► they wipe it off with a white cloth.

00:58:41 ◼   ► When the photo people get there,

00:58:42 ◼   ► It's like they want the phone, and they don't even

00:58:44 ◼   ► want the product tour.

00:58:45 ◼   ► They're not even listening to the things.

00:58:47 ◼   ► They're just trying to set the thing up

00:58:49 ◼   ► so they can take photos, which are exactly

00:58:51 ◼   ► like the photos being taken by 100 other different people who

00:58:55 ◼   ► are there, none of which are going

00:58:57 ◼   ► to be better than the photos that Apple's product marketing

00:59:00 ◼   ► team has already taken and made available to everybody

00:59:03 ◼   ► in the press.

00:59:04 ◼   ► Yep, it's true.

00:59:05 ◼   ► And then the worst part to me is the video people.

00:59:08 ◼   ► I think I've mentioned this in years past, or last year,

00:59:11 ◼   ► or whatever.

00:59:11 ◼   ► but it's getting worse.

00:59:12 ◼   ► 'Cause the video people want to,

00:59:15 ◼   ► it's a two-man, two-person team

00:59:17 ◼   ► where there's a camera person and then the talent,

00:59:21 ◼   ► quote, unquote, and the videographers

00:59:25 ◼   ► want to get as far away,

00:59:27 ◼   ► they wanna get a couple feet behind,

00:59:29 ◼   ► but you're at the table.

00:59:31 ◼   ► How many times did you get bumped into?

00:59:32 ◼   ► I got bumped into at least three times.

00:59:35 ◼   ► - It's not just that you get bumped into,

00:59:37 ◼   ► it's that they will push you out of the way.

00:59:38 ◼   ► - Yeah. (laughs)

00:59:41 ◼   ► And you and I, especially you, let's just face it,

00:59:45 ◼   ► you don't look like someone,

00:59:47 ◼   ► I mean, you don't look like someone you wanna push.

00:59:50 ◼   ► I don't look tough, let's face it,

00:59:56 ◼   ► but I am 6'2" and 200 pounds.

00:59:59 ◼   ► - I won't move.

01:00:01 ◼   ► Now I've stopped because like you said,

01:00:04 ◼   ► there's so many of them that are jostling

01:00:07 ◼   ► and trying to push you out of the way.

01:00:10 ◼   ► and things like that, that there was one guy there this time from PCMag, he was doing a

01:00:17 ◼   ► live, maybe a periscope or something.

01:00:20 ◼   ► He was screaming.

01:00:22 ◼   ► He was screaming.

01:00:23 ◼   ► And I was standing there at the table trying to get a product, a demo from the person.

01:00:31 ◼   ► This guy was right beside us, yelling into his phone.

01:00:36 ◼   ► And so I started saying, you know, when I was standing there, because the guy couldn't

01:00:41 ◼   ► give me the demo, he was yelling so loud.

01:00:45 ◼   ► I started saying, like since I was right next to him, "Why is this guy screaming into

01:00:49 ◼   ► his phone so loud?

01:00:50 ◼   ► Why are you screaming into your phone so loud?

01:00:52 ◼   ► Why is this guy doing that?

01:00:53 ◼   ► Why are you screaming?"

01:00:54 ◼   ► And so I just kept talking over him and finally he stopped and went away and then I could

01:00:58 ◼   ► have my product demo.

01:01:00 ◼   ► But yeah, it's, I mean, this is nothing that Apple is doing.

01:01:04 ◼   ► This is how things have changed for us.

01:01:08 ◼   ► Apple tried to stem, tried to dam the creek for a while.

01:01:15 ◼   ► Because for years, they only let you shoot video in designated areas, in the hands-on

01:01:20 ◼   ► areas.

01:01:23 ◼   ► If you remember, when there were hands-on areas in Moscone, when they would do the iPhones

01:01:30 ◼   ► at WWDC and then there was that was when they had a huge area because Moscone is huge right off to the

01:01:36 ◼   ► side in the what's the hallway of Moscone is where they would have the hands-on areas and it was

01:01:42 ◼   ► really I mean like expansive it was you know like in a ballroom more than you know a cramped area

01:01:51 ◼   ► but they would make the video people go off to the side they weren't allowed to shoot video near the

01:01:54 ◼   ► tables right there'd be like black curtains and this you know some lighting over to the side where

01:02:00 ◼   ► where they could shoot their video stuff.

01:02:02 ◼   ► But I think that it's too many people,

01:02:05 ◼   ► if they tried to enforce that now,

01:02:07 ◼   ► they would just spend all of their time

01:02:09 ◼   ► telling people you've got to shoot, it would never stop.

01:02:12 ◼   ► I've spoken to them, they design the hands-on tables now

01:02:15 ◼   ► with way more space between them

01:02:18 ◼   ► than is actually necessary or feels natural,

01:02:21 ◼   ► specifically to accommodate the video people.

01:02:23 ◼   ► But even so, you still get bumped into.

01:02:25 ◼   ► - You still do, well, right?

01:02:26 ◼   ► And it's because they just take up

01:02:28 ◼   ► more and more room all the time.

01:02:30 ◼   ► They used to space them either exactly or very close

01:02:33 ◼   ► to the space between them in an Apple retail store,

01:02:37 ◼   ► but now it's way more spaced apart

01:02:39 ◼   ► than in an Apple retail store

01:02:40 ◼   ► because of these video guys.

01:02:42 ◼   ► All right, I gotta tell you this.

01:02:44 ◼   ► - I'm just gonna keep bumping them back.

01:02:46 ◼   ► - Before I wanted to get, I almost forgot this story.

01:02:49 ◼   ► The last thing about the event was my seat.

01:02:51 ◼   ► I was sitting next to, it was hard to get a seat.

01:02:56 ◼   ► We were among the last people to get seats.

01:02:57 ◼   ► It was me and Jason Snell and Christina Warren,

01:03:00 ◼   ► who were, the three of us were trying to get seats together

01:03:03 ◼   ► and we found them up in this top row in the center,

01:03:05 ◼   ► but no three of the seats were adjacent.

01:03:07 ◼   ► So we gave Christina the first one,

01:03:09 ◼   ► and then we saw Horace Dedue, and he had two seats open,

01:03:13 ◼   ► one on his left, one on his right,

01:03:14 ◼   ► and so Jason took the one and I took the other.

01:03:16 ◼   ► And that's who I was sitting next to in the event.

01:03:19 ◼   ► On my right was this guy, I don't know who he is,

01:03:22 ◼   ► but I was wearing a backpack and I had coffee in my one hand

01:03:27 ◼   ► But because we had the last row,

01:03:28 ◼   ► there was like a shelf above my seat.

01:03:29 ◼   ► I know like that was like the layer

01:03:32 ◼   ► between our layer and the upper layer.

01:03:35 ◼   ► So I thought, hey, that's a good place to put my drink

01:03:36 ◼   ► while I unpack and get this.

01:03:38 ◼   ► 'Cause then it won't be on the floor

01:03:39 ◼   ► and I won't kick it over.

01:03:41 ◼   ► And I turn around and I will admit,

01:03:44 ◼   ► when I wear a backpack, I often bump into things.

01:03:47 ◼   ► I have a bad sense of the 3D space

01:03:49 ◼   ► my backpack takes behind me.

01:03:51 ◼   ► And apparently I bumped into the wide brimmed fedora

01:03:56 ◼   ► of the gentleman sitting next to me.

01:03:59 ◼   ► - Oh dear.

01:04:00 ◼   ► - And he said, "Hey bro, you bumped my hat."

01:04:03 ◼   ► And I, (laughs)

01:04:06 ◼   ► and my first thought was to be apologetic.

01:04:08 ◼   ► I'm a nice guy, but the way he said it,

01:04:10 ◼   ► I had a moment where I almost said,

01:04:15 ◼   ► "Well, I am sorry, but on the other hand,

01:04:18 ◼   ► "you could act like a normal gentleman

01:04:20 ◼   ► "and remove your hat and doors."

01:04:22 ◼   ► But I didn't, I didn't say it.

01:04:24 ◼   ► This son of a bitch spent the whole event--

01:04:28 ◼   ► I mean, the whole two hours of the event--

01:04:31 ◼   ► Instagram videoing what was going on on stage

01:04:34 ◼   ► and mumbling into his microphone.

01:04:36 ◼   ► Oh.

01:04:36 ◼   ► Now, he wasn't talking.

01:04:43 ◼   ► He was whispering into his microphone.

01:04:46 ◼   ► But I was sitting right next to him.

01:04:48 ◼   ► And I don't know if it was French-accented English

01:04:54 ◼   ► or French, any other, the other thing too,

01:04:57 ◼   ► is he purposefully shot all of his video

01:04:59 ◼   ► with his iPhone at a 45 degree angle.

01:05:02 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:05:04 ◼   ► So that everything looked like the bad guy layers

01:05:08 ◼   ► in the old Batman TV show.

01:05:10 ◼   ► And he's like, (mumbles)

01:05:13 ◼   ► And I came close a couple times to being like,

01:05:17 ◼   ► you gotta stop.

01:05:18 ◼   ► And it was like every time it seemed like

01:05:20 ◼   ► I was gonna have to say something,

01:05:21 ◼   ► it seemed like he dialed it back

01:05:23 ◼   ► and all of a sudden five minutes will go by

01:05:25 ◼   ► and he wasn't shooting an Instagram video,

01:05:27 ◼   ► but then he'd do it again.

01:05:28 ◼   ► And it's like--

01:05:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, that drives me crazy.

01:05:31 ◼   ► There were people behind me.

01:05:34 ◼   ► I was at the last row in the bottom section.

01:05:37 ◼   ► There were people right behind me

01:05:40 ◼   ► at the start of the second section

01:05:43 ◼   ► that were talking throughout the keynote.

01:05:47 ◼   ► And a couple of times,

01:05:48 ◼   ► I turned around and gave them a dirty look.

01:05:52 ◼   ► I'm here to listen to Tim and Phil, not you.

01:05:56 ◼   ► Shut up.

01:05:57 ◼   ► I can't, I mean, like, why was the guy even there?

01:05:59 ◼   ► I mean, and people could, you know,

01:06:00 ◼   ► anybody who wanted to watch, there's a live stream.

01:06:02 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:06:03 ◼   ► - Right.

01:06:04 ◼   ► - I don't get it.

01:06:05 ◼   ► It was really-- - I don't get it.

01:06:06 ◼   ► But people, you know, I go to the keynote to watch them,

01:06:10 ◼   ► and Apple does a good job of making sure

01:06:12 ◼   ► that they put on a great show,

01:06:15 ◼   ► and that we have hands-on areas,

01:06:17 ◼   ► and then these morons come in, you know,

01:06:20 ◼   ► and they talk through a keynote.

01:06:22 ◼   ► Why would you talk through a keynote?

01:06:24 ◼   ► Oh, you know the last one that,

01:06:25 ◼   ► I think it was at town hall,

01:06:27 ◼   ► the last event that was at town hall,

01:06:29 ◼   ► there was a guy from a reporter from China

01:06:33 ◼   ► that talked the entire way through the keynote.

01:06:36 ◼   ► - Right, 'cause he was translating for his audience.

01:06:37 ◼   ► - He was translating the keynote over the phone live.

01:06:41 ◼   ► - They gotta, that's not where you,

01:06:43 ◼   ► if you're gonna do that, watch the video

01:06:45 ◼   ► and go into a room and load up the video

01:06:48 ◼   ► and do it from the video. - Oh my God,

01:06:48 ◼   ► I couldn't believe it.

01:06:49 ◼   ► I nearly lost my mind and he was right behind me.

01:06:53 ◼   ► So at the end of the keynote, when I get up,

01:06:57 ◼   ► I took his picture and tweeted it and said,

01:06:59 ◼   ► you know, what a moron he was.

01:07:01 ◼   ► I don't get, why did, it's like, I tweeted this afternoon,

01:07:06 ◼   ► I said, there's so much stupid shit written about Apple

01:07:10 ◼   ► whenever they release new products.

01:07:12 ◼   ► Why is it that these people that go to these keynotes

01:07:16 ◼   ► are so dumb?

01:07:17 ◼   ► They're dumb.

01:07:19 ◼   ► They talk through the keynote, they push us out of the way so that they can get their,

01:07:24 ◼   ► do their video thing, they scream into their phones for Periscope.

01:07:31 ◼   ► It's just, it's dumb.

01:07:33 ◼   ► Did you get the impression that there were a lot more people from Asia who were there

01:07:38 ◼   ► for this keynote in terms of like, "Hey, who got a seat and who didn't?"

01:07:43 ◼   ► Which is always, you know, inside baseball, you know, in our racket, you know, who gets

01:07:46 ◼   ► invited and who doesn't is there.

01:07:48 ◼   ► And it seemed like invitations, even though the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium is huge,

01:07:53 ◼   ► the press seating area was only on the lower level and only on the one side.

01:07:58 ◼   ► And the whole central stage front section is all VIP seating for Apple and their friends.

01:08:07 ◼   ► So there weren't that many press seats.

01:08:08 ◼   ► And it really seemed to me like the reason that even though it's such a huge auditorium,

01:08:12 ◼   ► that press invitations seem to be somewhat tight,

01:08:17 ◼   ► is that there were so many people from Asia pressing,

01:08:22 ◼   ► I don't know who's press, who's analyst,

01:08:24 ◼   ► but it's just unbelievable.

01:08:27 ◼   ► And it's part of, they used to have simulcasts in Asia

01:08:30 ◼   ► and they don't do it anymore.

01:08:31 ◼   ► Instead they invite them to come to California

01:08:33 ◼   ► and be there live.

01:08:34 ◼   ► It's just, it really seemed like more than ever before.

01:08:39 ◼   ► Well, the whole section where I was was basically Asia, except for Walt Mossberg, René, and

01:08:46 ◼   ► me.

01:08:47 ◼   ► Hmm.

01:08:48 ◼   ► Yeah, and Matt Honan was there, right?

01:08:50 ◼   ► Oh, was he down there too?

01:08:52 ◼   ► Yeah, he was like right on the aisle.

01:08:55 ◼   ► Like had like the leftmost seat.

01:08:57 ◼   ► Oh, I see.

01:08:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:59 ◼   ► I didn't see Matt.

01:09:00 ◼   ► I saw him outside and, you know.

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01:11:26 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:11:27 ◼   ► You spend a lot more than 950.

01:11:30 ◼   ► Now, one more thing.

01:11:32 ◼   ► I hope you haven't skipped ahead.

01:11:33 ◼   ► I hope you're listening.

01:11:34 ◼   ► Because they have an amazing new product.

01:11:36 ◼   ► It's a dog mattress.

01:11:37 ◼   ► They're making dog mattresses at Casper now.

01:11:40 ◼   ► They've put just as much attention to them

01:11:42 ◼   ► as their people mattresses.

01:11:45 ◼   ► And they've got removable covers that you can wash.

01:11:48 ◼   ► And they've got a zipper that just tucks away.

01:11:50 ◼   ► Your dog deserves a good night's sleep too.

01:11:53 ◼   ► Probably more than you do.

01:11:55 ◼   ► So go there and check this out.

01:11:57 ◼   ► It is amazing.

01:11:58 ◼   ► They have the best dog mattresses you're ever gonna find.

01:12:02 ◼   ► Casper.com/dtalkshow, and remember that code, dtalkshow,

01:12:06 ◼   ► you'll save 50 bucks towards your first mattress,

01:12:07 ◼   ► whether it's for you or whether it's for your dog.

01:12:10 ◼   ► - I like Casper too.

01:12:11 ◼   ► Good stuff.

01:12:13 ◼   ► - You know who doesn't get mattresses?

01:12:14 ◼   ► - Who?

01:12:15 ◼   ► - Cats.

01:12:16 ◼   ► - Good.

01:12:17 ◼   ► - You know why?

01:12:18 ◼   ► - Why?

01:12:19 ◼   ► - Cats suck.

01:12:20 ◼   ► - Cats suck.

01:12:21 ◼   ► - I hate cats.

01:12:21 ◼   ► - I love dogs.

01:12:22 ◼   ► - I'm probably gonna turn off half my audience here.

01:12:25 ◼   ► - It's all right.

01:12:26 ◼   ► But you know what?

01:12:27 ◼   ► That's part of the reason why cats suck,

01:12:28 ◼   ► 'cause you could buy your cat a mattress

01:12:30 ◼   ► and they wouldn't even use it.

01:12:31 ◼   ► - They wouldn't.

01:12:32 ◼   ► They would jump up on your head instead and sleep there.

01:12:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, they'd still sleep on your TV or whatever.

01:12:35 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:12:36 ◼   ► - Creepin' around.

01:12:37 ◼   ► Dog, you know what a dog's gonna do with a mattress?

01:12:40 ◼   ► Gonna sleep the hell out of it.

01:12:41 ◼   ► - Sleep.

01:12:42 ◼   ► - Dogs know how to sleep.

01:12:43 ◼   ► That's the other thing about dogs.

01:12:44 ◼   ► A good dog will sleep 22 hours a day.

01:12:46 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

01:12:47 ◼   ► Only get up to go to the bathroom and eat.

01:12:50 ◼   ► - And eat, right? - Yeah.

01:12:51 ◼   ► - And greet you, right?

01:12:52 ◼   ► And the other thing they'll do

01:12:54 ◼   ► is they'll greet you when you come in the door.

01:12:55 ◼   ► unless you come in too late, then they might just

01:12:57 ◼   ► wag their tail and still be sleeping.

01:12:59 ◼   ► - All right, we've got products to talk about.

01:13:00 ◼   ► I don't know if you know, did you know this,

01:13:02 ◼   ► that there's new products that came out?

01:13:04 ◼   ► - Apparently.

01:13:05 ◼   ► - All right, we can talk about them.

01:13:06 ◼   ► But while we're talking about events,

01:13:09 ◼   ► let's speculate, let's jump ahead.

01:13:11 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:13:12 ◼   ► - So, there was no Mac hardware news at the event last week.

01:13:17 ◼   ► They didn't even talk about the software.

01:13:19 ◼   ► Really, Mac was not part of the event.

01:13:21 ◼   ► - You're welcome.

01:13:22 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:13:24 ◼   ► As you predicted, you know, you're very astute.

01:13:29 ◼   ► Now, last year, there was one fall Apple event.

01:13:35 ◼   ► Now, in years prior to that,

01:13:37 ◼   ► there was sort of a TikTok schedule

01:13:40 ◼   ► where there would be a big event in September with iPhones

01:13:43 ◼   ► and then a smaller event in October with other stuff.

01:13:47 ◼   ► And sometimes it was Mac,

01:13:48 ◼   ► I don't even remember what the small event was.

01:13:49 ◼   ► - iPad. - Sometimes iPad.

01:13:52 ◼   ► Usually, September, big event, somewhere big,

01:13:55 ◼   ► like the Flint Center, the one time.

01:13:57 ◼   ► Going back further, years further,

01:14:01 ◼   ► it would be in the Yerba Buena Center

01:14:02 ◼   ► right in downtown San Francisco.

01:14:05 ◼   ► And then the October event was often in town hall,

01:14:08 ◼   ► maybe always in town hall, I don't know.

01:14:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, maybe.

01:14:11 ◼   ► - Last year, there was just one event for the fall,

01:14:14 ◼   ► and a couple of people at Apple who I spoke to

01:14:17 ◼   ► said that is by design, that the two event thing,

01:14:22 ◼   ► even with a smaller event was a real stress on them.

01:14:27 ◼   ► - I can see that.

01:14:28 ◼   ► - Personnel and time-wise, and it wasn't just like,

01:14:31 ◼   ► oh poor us, we don't want to do the work.

01:14:32 ◼   ► I mean, you know, honestly, I'm not just trying

01:14:35 ◼   ► to blow smoke up their asses.

01:14:36 ◼   ► The people who put on these events for Apple

01:14:38 ◼   ► work their asses off, and they're not afraid of hard work.

01:14:40 ◼   ► It's just that what I heard from a couple people

01:14:42 ◼   ► was that they always felt that with the mid-September

01:14:45 ◼   ► and then mid-October events, that both events suffered,

01:14:48 ◼   ► especially the October event, 'cause it just didn't,

01:14:51 ◼   ► They didn't have enough time to do it right.

01:14:53 ◼   ► And that it was better to put all their eggs in one basket

01:14:55 ◼   ► and do one than to do two.

01:14:57 ◼   ► And secondarily, adding on to that,

01:15:01 ◼   ► when the March event was in town hall,

01:15:04 ◼   ► the one where the 9.7-inch iPad Pro was introduced,

01:15:07 ◼   ► Tim Cook said, "This is probably the last time

01:15:09 ◼   ► "we're gonna have an event here.

01:15:10 ◼   ► "We've had a lot of great history here,

01:15:11 ◼   ► "but we're moving to a new campus next year,"

01:15:13 ◼   ► blah, blah, blah.

01:15:14 ◼   ► - Right.

01:15:15 ◼   ► - So no Mac hardware news,

01:15:19 ◼   ► no event to showcase features in Sierra.

01:15:22 ◼   ► Yet there are, well, A, every single product

01:15:27 ◼   ► in the Mac lineup other than the MacBook One port jobby

01:15:31 ◼   ► is old and outdated, over a year.

01:15:34 ◼   ► I'm not being hyperbolic.

01:15:35 ◼   ► I mean, like MacBook Pros are over a year old.

01:15:38 ◼   ► The Mac Pro literally just passed its thousandth day

01:15:41 ◼   ► since it was updated.

01:15:43 ◼   ► And there is an excellent new version of macOS

01:15:46 ◼   ► that is ready, you know, coming out soon.

01:15:49 ◼   ► Do you think that there's gonna be an October event

01:15:50 ◼   ► where they do max stuff?

01:15:52 ◼   ► - You know,

01:15:53 ◼   ► here's the thing for me with the max.

01:16:03 ◼   ► I think a simpler question is,

01:16:05 ◼   ► do I think that they have max that they'll release

01:16:11 ◼   ► sometime before the holiday shopping season?

01:16:16 ◼   ► Yes.

01:16:17 ◼   ► - I agree.

01:16:18 ◼   ► think my answer to that is is a definite yes. Will they have an event for those Macs? I think

01:16:23 ◼   ► is a more difficult question because like you said, the reasoning for these one event things

01:16:31 ◼   ► is very sound. It's a sound reasoning to cut that out. So if they have an event for

01:16:41 ◼   ► what we would have to think at this point would be Macs because don't forget the iPads were updated

01:16:48 ◼   ► at the last event too. They didn't talk about it, but they were. So this is basically going to be

01:16:54 ◼   ► a Mac event. So are those Macs that they have so good that they'll want to roll them out in

01:17:04 ◼   ► an event as opposed to rolling them out in a press release or do briefings with a number of

01:17:12 ◼   ► of their key people and roll them out like that.

01:17:15 ◼   ► I mean, there are a few things that they could do.

01:17:18 ◼   ► If the Macs are big enough

01:17:21 ◼   ► and they're that confident in them,

01:17:24 ◼   ► then yeah, there'll be an event.

01:17:26 ◼   ► If not, then I think one of the other two options

01:17:29 ◼   ► is the best.

01:17:30 ◼   ► - I think it'll either be an event or it will be briefings.

01:17:35 ◼   ► And then, you know, when they do the briefings,

01:17:36 ◼   ► and they did this, like one of the first ones I remember

01:17:38 ◼   ► was a version of Mac OS X. It might have been 10.7,

01:17:46 ◼   ► somewhere around there.

01:17:47 ◼   ► But it was around March, and they had a mysterious--

01:17:53 ◼   ► they were like, can you-- for me, it was New York.

01:17:56 ◼   ► I don't know where you went.

01:17:57 ◼   ► Maybe you were still going to New York at the time.

01:17:59 ◼   ► But it was, hey, we have something to show you.

01:18:02 ◼   ► Can you make it up Tuesday at noon or 1 o'clock

01:18:05 ◼   ► in the afternoon?

01:18:06 ◼   ► And I was like, well, what's it about?

01:18:08 ◼   ► you know, we want to keep it under wraps. I had no idea what it was. And it was the

01:18:12 ◼   ► time I wrote about it. It was I had a briefing with Phil Schiller and Brian

01:18:16 ◼   ► Kroll from Product Marketing where they showed the next version of Mac OS X. I

01:18:19 ◼   ► think it was 10.7 but it doesn't really matter. But it was off schedule and it

01:18:22 ◼   ► was at a time when the Mac was generally only getting updated every 18 months or

01:18:26 ◼   ► so. Like Mac wasn't, Mac OS wasn't on a yearly schedule. It was at coming off

01:18:31 ◼   ► that time where there were a couple of years where they even said, "Hey, you know,

01:18:35 ◼   ► Mac OS is getting updated slower because we're pulling key people to keep iOS.

01:18:39 ◼   ► The top priority of the company software-wise were annual releases of

01:18:43 ◼   ► iOS. And the Mac, I mean, they admitted it. They even had a PR the one time where

01:18:48 ◼   ► they're like, "We were gonna have Mac OS come out at WWDC, but it's gonna

01:18:51 ◼   ► come out later in the year instead because we're engineering

01:18:54 ◼   ► constrained." And these product briefings were sort of a, "Hey, we're back. We're back

01:19:00 ◼   ► at full steam ahead, and we're doing the Mac every year too, and we've got

01:19:03 ◼   ► here's what's coming, we're gonna try to release this later this year and you know

01:19:07 ◼   ► And they've done that a couple of other times too, but I've the Mac one really stuck out to me

01:19:12 ◼   ► Yeah, and I don't mind that I don't know about you, but I don't mind that well

01:19:17 ◼   ► And it's not as exclusive as it sounds either because they would generally when they do this

01:19:21 ◼   ► Well, I'm back maybe I think every time I know that they've done it

01:19:23 ◼   ► They've they do something in California and Cupertino and then they have another team fly out to New York

01:19:29 ◼   ► Yes, and usually get like a suite of hotel rooms and it's you know

01:19:33 ◼   ► they could have two or three, four, maybe even four teams at a time in parallel

01:19:38 ◼   ► doing it, you know, half an hour at a time so they can fit, you know, each team can

01:19:44 ◼   ► fit, I don't know, 10, 15 briefings in a day, you know, multiplied by three or four

01:19:49 ◼   ► teams, you know, and you can easily, you know, get these briefings out to, you know,

01:19:54 ◼   ► 50 to 100 people. Yeah, and I don't even know if they were that big. Yeah, I don't

01:19:59 ◼   ► - I don't know that they did. - It may not be.

01:20:01 ◼   ► Well, there's always so secretive about it.

01:20:02 ◼   ► - Yeah. (laughs)

01:20:03 ◼   ► - You only really know, all you ever really know

01:20:06 ◼   ► is who came before you 'cause you see 'em on the way out

01:20:08 ◼   ► and know who's coming in after you.

01:20:09 ◼   ► - That's exactly right.

01:20:11 ◼   ► Or like I think we did one time,

01:20:13 ◼   ► we bumped into each other walking down the street.

01:20:15 ◼   ► Oh, what are you doing here? (laughs)

01:20:17 ◼   ► - Oh yeah. (laughs)

01:20:19 ◼   ► So I don't know.

01:20:20 ◼   ► I don't know which way to bet though.

01:20:22 ◼   ► I'm kind of betting on briefings.

01:20:29 ◼   ► but I don't wanna make a bet.

01:20:30 ◼   ► I, you know, if you wanted to put money on it,

01:20:33 ◼   ► I wouldn't wanna put up more than $5

01:20:35 ◼   ► if you said you thought it was gonna be an event.

01:20:38 ◼   ► - No more than $5.

01:20:39 ◼   ► - 'Cause the other thing too is I wonder whether for them

01:20:43 ◼   ► it is less effort to do one event in town hall

01:20:47 ◼   ► than to send two teams, you know,

01:20:49 ◼   ► one in New, you know, send a team to New York

01:20:51 ◼   ► and have another team in Cupertino.

01:20:53 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:20:54 ◼   ► - Do you know what?

01:20:55 ◼   ► are some of my favorite events.

01:20:59 ◼   ► - I'm kind of rooting, that's the one thing too,

01:21:01 ◼   ► is I'm rooting for Town Hall

01:21:02 ◼   ► 'cause I would like to go one more there.

01:21:04 ◼   ► - I love Town Hall, I really do.

01:21:07 ◼   ► I just-- - And this time,

01:21:09 ◼   ► we'd know it's the last.

01:21:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's correct, yeah.

01:21:12 ◼   ► 'Cause there are no more products coming.

01:21:13 ◼   ► - Well, I guess we don't know,

01:21:15 ◼   ► it wouldn't be 100% certain 'cause there's a chance

01:21:17 ◼   ► that construction would be significantly delayed

01:21:19 ◼   ► and a March event that they might wanna have next year

01:21:22 ◼   ► couldn't be held on the new campus.

01:21:23 ◼   ► I kind of get the feeling like if they have a March event, it's going to be at the new campus.

01:21:27 ◼   ► Pete: Yeah.

01:21:29 ◼   ► Pete; And I know, you can just tell by looking at it, there is no

01:21:33 ◼   ► chance in hell that an event next month is going to be at the new campus.

01:21:35 ◼   ► Pete; No, no, no. No, you can't. They wouldn't do that, but,

01:21:38 ◼   ► I, what, the important thing, I think, is the very first question. Is there, are there max

01:21:48 ◼   ► going to be available, new max, before the end of the year? Yes.

01:21:52 ◼   ► - Yes. - I think yes.

01:21:53 ◼   ► - Yes, so-- - But I think MacBook Pro,

01:21:56 ◼   ► for sure. - Yes.

01:21:58 ◼   ► - And I think part of the reason that Tim Cook said,

01:22:00 ◼   ► I think this is, you know, in March,

01:22:01 ◼   ► that this'll probably be the last time we meet here,

01:22:03 ◼   ► is I really do think that Apple at that time

01:22:05 ◼   ► thought that MacBook Pros would be out by WWDC.

01:22:08 ◼   ► But maybe I'm wrong, 'cause maybe there's a design aspect

01:22:10 ◼   ► of this new Mac that is like tied into AirPods

01:22:13 ◼   ► or something like that.

01:22:14 ◼   ► - Well, see, that's the whole thing.

01:22:18 ◼   ► are these Macs big enough that they'll hold an event?

01:22:22 ◼   ► And that's what we don't know because, you know,

01:22:26 ◼   ► there's rumors and stuff, but you never know, I mean.

01:22:30 ◼   ► - Are they gonna update the Mac Pro?

01:22:33 ◼   ► I think they either have to update it or kill it.

01:22:36 ◼   ► - The Mac Pro?

01:22:37 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Oh yeah.

01:22:39 ◼   ► - I mean, a thousand day old computer is, again,

01:22:42 ◼   ► I know it's not their bread and butter.

01:22:45 ◼   ► I know that it's actually the opposite.

01:22:47 ◼   ► financially speaking, the iPhone is 60%

01:22:50 ◼   ► of the company's revenue,

01:22:51 ◼   ► and Mac Pro is some immeasurably slim thing.

01:22:53 ◼   ► But if you're gonna have a personal computing platform

01:22:58 ◼   ► for professionals like the Mac,

01:23:00 ◼   ► there needs to be professional hardware to run on it.

01:23:02 ◼   ► - And doesn't that bring you into something else

01:23:03 ◼   ► with something like the Mac Pro or even the Mac Mini?

01:23:06 ◼   ► You need a screen.

01:23:07 ◼   ► I don't wanna go buy a screen from HP or,

01:23:11 ◼   ► I want an Apple screen.

01:23:12 ◼   ► - Well, and I want the screen, it doesn't make any sense.

01:23:14 ◼   ► I'm not gonna buy a Mac Pro anyway.

01:23:16 ◼   ► I'm almost certainly gonna run iMacs

01:23:18 ◼   ► until they stop making iMacs,

01:23:19 ◼   ► 'cause I don't need the performance, I really don't,

01:23:21 ◼   ► and I love just having one less thing

01:23:23 ◼   ► to hook up to another thing.

01:23:25 ◼   ► But it doesn't make any sense to me

01:23:26 ◼   ► that if you buy a $12,000 Mac Pro

01:23:29 ◼   ► that you can't hook it up to a display

01:23:30 ◼   ► as nice as you get on a $3,000 iMac.

01:23:33 ◼   ► - Right, right.

01:23:34 ◼   ► - Well, I don't even know what the entry level iMac is,

01:23:37 ◼   ► but it doesn't make any sense

01:23:40 ◼   ► that you can get a better display

01:23:42 ◼   ► with professional high color gamut and all this stuff.

01:23:45 ◼   ► And that's a very good point.

01:23:47 ◼   ► Don't forget, these are wide color gamut displays.

01:23:50 ◼   ► So you're actually getting something that's better

01:23:53 ◼   ► than what most people have,

01:23:55 ◼   ► but yet you can't get it with the Mac Pro.

01:23:57 ◼   ► But maybe their thought is that people that use the Mac Pro

01:24:01 ◼   ► don't actually use displays,

01:24:03 ◼   ► and they don't use them like that.

01:24:04 ◼   ► - Yes, they do, because they're photographers

01:24:06 ◼   ► and videographers, right?

01:24:07 ◼   ► If you're doing professional video editing,

01:24:09 ◼   ► of course you want it a Mac Pro,

01:24:10 ◼   ► and of course you want the high color gamut display.

01:24:14 ◼   ► And if you're a professional photographer,

01:24:15 ◼   ► of course you want it.

01:24:16 ◼   ► - That's, yeah.

01:24:17 ◼   ► I would use it for audio.

01:24:19 ◼   ► I mean, I use an iMac and I love this iMac,

01:24:23 ◼   ► but if I had the choice, yeah,

01:24:25 ◼   ► I'd get a Mac Pro and a big display and do my stuff.

01:24:30 ◼   ► - I love making fun of people who put the word finally

01:24:34 ◼   ► in their headlines about Apple

01:24:36 ◼   ► in completely inappropriate ways.

01:24:37 ◼   ► But this is a, and one of the reasons why

01:24:40 ◼   ► is that if you overuse a word,

01:24:41 ◼   ► the word ceases to have meaning.

01:24:43 ◼   ► Right.

01:24:46 ◼   ► This is a case where if--

01:24:48 ◼   ► let's just say if in October they release a new Mac Pro

01:24:52 ◼   ► with modern Intel hardware.

01:24:55 ◼   ► And I think the place where it's most dated by far

01:24:59 ◼   ► isn't even the CPU, even though the CPU is three years old.

01:25:02 ◼   ► But the graphics, the graphics capabilities of the Mac Pro,

01:25:06 ◼   ► the graphics chips have made tremendous increases

01:25:10 ◼   ► in the last three years.

01:25:11 ◼   ► And a 5K cinema display that has,

01:25:15 ◼   ► or whatever they're gonna call it, display,

01:25:18 ◼   ► that has a wide color gamut and is beautiful.

01:25:21 ◼   ► That's the case where the word finally is exactly right.

01:25:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, you can't argue with that.

01:25:28 ◼   ► You really can't. - So I hope so.

01:25:29 ◼   ► And I have absolutely zero scuttlebutt.

01:25:31 ◼   ► Nothing I've heard from any little birdies

01:25:33 ◼   ► has told me that any of this stuff is coming.

01:25:35 ◼   ► Well, Mac Pros, MacBook Pros,

01:25:37 ◼   ► we know we've heard are coming.

01:25:38 ◼   ► Gurman's had reports on 'em,

01:25:40 ◼   ► and a lot of people have heard stuff about Macbook Pros.

01:25:43 ◼   ► I haven't heard anything about the Mac Pro, though.

01:25:44 ◼   ► - No, me neither.

01:25:45 ◼   ► - It's almost terrifying to me that I haven't.

01:25:48 ◼   ► Because it makes me worry that my expectation

01:25:51 ◼   ► that it's coming is simply based on my hopes.

01:25:55 ◼   ► And the hopes of daring Fireball readers

01:25:57 ◼   ► and talk show listeners who I know are waiting for it.

01:26:02 ◼   ► - Well, and you're not alone in that.

01:26:05 ◼   ► My readers have had the same reaction.

01:26:09 ◼   ► emailing and and Twitter and everything else that you know what have you heard

01:26:14 ◼   ► about this you know you know I know is that it's I look at the Mac rumors

01:26:19 ◼   ► buying guidance as it's thousand and two days old so you better be coming let

01:26:25 ◼   ► me take a break here and we'll talk about the actual products and I thank

01:26:27 ◼   ► our third and final sponsor what a great sponsor I love these guys audible.com

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01:28:45 ◼   ► that has never won any awards.

01:28:48 ◼   ► All right.

01:28:49 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:28:51 ◼   ► The products themselves.

01:28:58 ◼   ► - I mean, again, I don't wanna complain,

01:29:01 ◼   ► but I can complain to you.

01:29:02 ◼   ► - All right.

01:29:03 ◼   ► Don't worry, I won't tell anybody.

01:29:06 ◼   ► - I have a great job.

01:29:07 ◼   ► You have a great job.

01:29:08 ◼   ► We are lucky.

01:29:11 ◼   ► As we record this, everybody who's ever gonna end up

01:29:13 ◼   ► listening to it is wondering what it is like

01:29:16 ◼   ► to hold the new iPhones.

01:29:18 ◼   ► What's it like to feel the jet black?

01:29:19 ◼   ► What does it look like?

01:29:21 ◼   ► What's the camera like in the iPhone 7 Plus?

01:29:24 ◼   ► Everybody wants to know what does it look like

01:29:26 ◼   ► when you go and hit the 2X button

01:29:28 ◼   ► and you're looking through the second lens.

01:29:29 ◼   ► Everybody's curious, everybody's dying.

01:29:31 ◼   ► Maybe by the time they listen, if they pre-ordered,

01:29:34 ◼   ► they'll have them, they're showing up tomorrow.

01:29:36 ◼   ► You and I both know the answers to all those questions.

01:29:39 ◼   ► What a great job.

01:29:41 ◼   ► If I didn't have this job, I would wish that I had it.

01:29:44 ◼   ► I used to be jealous, like when I read

01:29:46 ◼   ► about the original iPhone, I wish that I was one

01:29:48 ◼   ► of the guys who got to use it before everybody else.

01:29:50 ◼   ► And now I do, I get to use it before everybody else.

01:29:54 ◼   ► That said, getting two phones and a brand new Apple Watch

01:30:02 ◼   ► and an all new headphone and being given five days

01:30:07 ◼   ► to review them before the embargo goes up,

01:30:12 ◼   ► it is pretty hard.

01:30:14 ◼   ► Well--

01:30:15 ◼   ► I actually-- I'm telling you the goddamn truth.

01:30:17 ◼   ► Now, part of this is I cut a fingernail too short

01:30:20 ◼   ► on my left ring finger.

01:30:23 ◼   ► I hurt my finger typing this week.

01:30:25 ◼   ► I suffered like a work-related injury.

01:30:27 ◼   ► I need--

01:30:28 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:30:30 ◼   ► I actually hurt myself.

01:30:36 ◼   ► - Oh, man.

01:30:38 ◼   ► - I mean, I've written, I swear to God,

01:30:39 ◼   ► I've written something like eight or 9,000 words this week.

01:30:42 ◼   ► - We'll take out a Kickstarter or something for you.

01:30:47 ◼   ► - Let me insert my usual disclaimer

01:30:51 ◼   ► that my mom's father was a coal miner.

01:30:54 ◼   ► He spent his entire career digging coal out of mountains

01:30:59 ◼   ► in central Pennsylvania and wound up dying

01:31:01 ◼   ► of black lung disease.

01:31:03 ◼   ► - And you cut your fingernail too short.

01:31:07 ◼   ► - I am his grandson.

01:31:09 ◼   ► I think if he knew what I was doing

01:31:12 ◼   ► and how many people listen to my podcast

01:31:16 ◼   ► and how many people read my site, he would be so proud.

01:31:18 ◼   ► He would be delighted.

01:31:20 ◼   ► He really was your stereotypical,

01:31:23 ◼   ► he was a first generation,

01:31:24 ◼   ► he came over from the Ukraine when he was like a baby.

01:31:28 ◼   ► And he was the stereotypical immigrant American

01:31:32 ◼   ► who wanted nothing but for his children

01:31:35 ◼   ► and their children to have better and better lives.

01:31:37 ◼   ► And that is exactly what's going on with me and my sister.

01:31:39 ◼   ► He'd be so proud.

01:31:40 ◼   ► But here I am complaining about my finger that hurts here

01:31:46 ◼   ► 'cause I cut a fingernail too short

01:31:48 ◼   ► and had to type 7,000 words.

01:31:50 ◼   ► So about thousand dollar cell phones. You know what you remind me of? You remind me of that

01:31:55 ◼   ► GE commercial where they put a hammer on the table and said you can't lift the hammer, can you?

01:31:59 ◼   ► Did you ever see that? Yeah. That's, yeah.

01:32:05 ◼   ► You know, like the Goodfella scene when he takes her, takes Lorraine Bracco into the Copacabana

01:32:13 ◼   ► and then, you know, and they get the table put out right in front of the front row and she's like,

01:32:18 ◼   ► "What do you do?"

01:32:20 ◼   ► And he goes, "I'm a union delegate."

01:32:21 ◼   ► I don't know, she goes, "I'm in construction."

01:32:23 ◼   ► And she feels his hands, right,

01:32:26 ◼   ► where the calluses should be,

01:32:27 ◼   ► and she goes, "Your hands don't feel like

01:32:29 ◼   ► you work in construction."

01:32:30 ◼   ► And he says, "I'm a union delegate."

01:32:32 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:32:34 ◼   ► Right?

01:32:35 ◼   ► If you took my hands and just felt for calluses,

01:32:38 ◼   ► you wouldn't say, "It feels like I'm a hard worker."

01:32:41 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:32:42 ◼   ► - But you did engineer yourself this week.

01:32:45 ◼   ► - It's hard to review.

01:32:46 ◼   ► I really felt the pressure, especially with the phones.

01:32:49 ◼   ► I like to take more time.

01:32:50 ◼   ► I wish I could have two weeks.

01:32:52 ◼   ► And not because I want to take two weeks to write,

01:32:54 ◼   ► it's like, I want to settle in with the devices before.

01:32:56 ◼   ► And it's really hard, especially with two phones,

01:32:58 ◼   ► and especially with two phones

01:33:00 ◼   ► that are fundamentally different.

01:33:01 ◼   ► - Well, I could only,

01:33:04 ◼   ► I mean, like the camera,

01:33:07 ◼   ► most of what I focused on with the camera

01:33:10 ◼   ► was focused on the plus with the zoom.

01:33:15 ◼   ► because you're kind of rushing at that point, because you leave the next day,

01:33:22 ◼   ► and you get everything set up, and then the next day, and your time is running short.

01:33:30 ◼   ► So, I try and do the best I can and give the best thoughts that I can on it, but I really enjoy both

01:33:39 ◼   ► of them. Both. And you know what? Somebody asked me today, "Which phone do you think I should get?

01:33:49 ◼   ► Should I get the one with the plus for the two times camera?" And I know for a fact that this

01:33:59 ◼   ► person hates the bigger phone. You know, when it came to the 6 or the 6 plus, they went for the 6

01:34:06 ◼   ► because they hated the bigger phone they've just they saw no use for the bigger phone

01:34:10 ◼   ► and and my response back to them was i know you don't like the bigger phone so

01:34:17 ◼   ► think about this do you want to use a bigger phone 24 hours a day for those few times that you'll use

01:34:25 ◼   ► the telephoto camera

01:34:27 ◼   ► i don't think so i don't think that you do but that's kind of how to look at it and it is a much

01:34:36 ◼   ► harder this year than the previous years. The two previous years, there was a photographic advantage

01:34:42 ◼   ► to the Plus models, which was that it had optical image stabilization. And they made it even better

01:34:46 ◼   ► last year. The first year with the 6, the optical image stabilization was only for still photos. And

01:34:51 ◼   ► then last year, the Plus did optical image stabilization for video. It's a big deal. It

01:34:57 ◼   ► really does work. It does increase in photo terms. It gives you at least, I think, at least two stops.

01:35:04 ◼   ► I think Apple advertises it as three stops. I think it's very fair to say that for most people

01:35:10 ◼   ► in their ability to hold a camera still, you'll get at least two stops from optical

01:35:14 ◼   ► image stabilization. What does stops mean? It means that you can get an in-focus,

01:35:20 ◼   ► not blurry picture with less light. Or if you're shooting out of a moving car or something like

01:35:28 ◼   ► that, you'll be able to take a steadier picture. I try. It's exactly what-- optical image

01:35:34 ◼   ► limit stabilization is a feature that is exactly it's it's perfectly

01:35:37 ◼   ► named.

01:35:37 ◼   ► I try and never does shoot out of a moving car, but you know,

01:35:40 ◼   ► it works. It does work. I think personally, especially in typical,

01:35:46 ◼   ► like just regular person going about their daily life, shooting stuff with

01:35:50 ◼   ► their phone, the optical limits, stage stabilization for video is even more

01:35:54 ◼   ► important than for stills because it works all the time. So like, just like

01:35:58 ◼   ► when you're shooting something with video and you're walking and there's

01:36:01 ◼   ► that just even that no matter how steady you try

01:36:04 ◼   ► to hold the camera, you get this camera shake.

01:36:06 ◼   ► The optical image stabilization, when you just like

01:36:08 ◼   ► just walk down the sidewalk and trying to keep it steady,

01:36:13 ◼   ► the difference between with and without optical

01:36:15 ◼   ► image stabilization is night and day.

01:36:17 ◼   ► It looks like the difference between like a consumer camera

01:36:20 ◼   ► and a thousand dollar pro camera.

01:36:21 ◼   ► One of the tests I did, I don't publish these things

01:36:25 ◼   ► because I just don't have time.

01:36:26 ◼   ► I just try to focus on words and I know other people

01:36:29 ◼   ► We'll show examples.

01:36:29 ◼   ► But I took my 6S, which does not have optical image

01:36:33 ◼   ► stabilization, and the 7, just the regular 7,

01:36:36 ◼   ► so it would be the exact same size.

01:36:38 ◼   ► And I held them back right next to each other so that the--

01:36:43 ◼   ► imagine this.

01:36:44 ◼   ► Put the glass of the 6 right on the back of the 7

01:36:48 ◼   ► so that the camera lenses are as close as

01:36:50 ◼   ► possible without one of the lenses obstructing the other.

01:36:55 ◼   ► Start shooting video with both of them,

01:36:57 ◼   ► and then just walk down the sidewalk,

01:36:59 ◼   ► and then come back in, load 'em up on a computer,

01:37:01 ◼   ► and watch 'em.

01:37:02 ◼   ► The difference between A and B is just huge.

01:37:05 ◼   ► It's a huge factor, and it was tempting.

01:37:07 ◼   ► But it wasn't enough for me to get the big phone

01:37:09 ◼   ► the last two years.

01:37:10 ◼   ► But now that it has the new lens system, boy,

01:37:12 ◼   ► I am absolutely, honestly, I'm telling you right now, Jim,

01:37:15 ◼   ► I haven't ordered a phone for myself yet,

01:37:16 ◼   ► 'cause I don't know what to get.

01:37:18 ◼   ► - I think, for me, a lot of it is use,

01:37:24 ◼   ► And I need reading glasses now.

01:37:28 ◼   ► So the plus is, it has to be the plus for me.

01:37:34 ◼   ► Because if I pick up the 7, I have trouble seeing it.

01:37:38 ◼   ► What do you do for that?

01:37:40 ◼   ► I'm in the same boat.

01:37:42 ◼   ► I'm in the same boat I've talked about on the show

01:37:44 ◼   ► before.

01:37:44 ◼   ► I need reading glasses too, at least when I have my contacts

01:37:46 ◼   ► in.

01:37:47 ◼   ► What do you do?

01:37:47 ◼   ► Do you go to Zoom mode so that you're running it

01:37:49 ◼   ► at the same effective resolution as the smaller one?

01:37:52 ◼   ► or do you just go in and bump the text size up?

01:37:55 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:37:56 ◼   ► - This is terrible, but I do both.

01:37:59 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:38:01 ◼   ► All right, I mean, yeah, I do both.

01:38:04 ◼   ► I bump the text size up and I use the zoom mode

01:38:09 ◼   ► because it's just, I need that.

01:38:14 ◼   ► I wanna be able to pick up my phone

01:38:20 ◼   ► and just be able to look at it to see a message,

01:38:22 ◼   ► if a message comes in, that's what I want.

01:38:25 ◼   ► But even with Zoom and bigger text,

01:38:29 ◼   ► 'cause bigger text doesn't work for everything.

01:38:32 ◼   ► So even with the bigger text, I still, a lot of times,

01:38:37 ◼   ► have to pick up my glasses to actually see what's there.

01:38:40 ◼   ► With the Plus, I can usually just pick it up

01:38:43 ◼   ► and look at it and say, oh, okay.

01:38:45 ◼   ► - I know that it makes me sound like I'm older

01:38:49 ◼   ► than I actually am even.

01:38:51 ◼   ► My eyes are older, you know, my close vision

01:38:55 ◼   ► is worse than my age should be.

01:38:57 ◼   ► I'm actually like behind, so it makes me sound old.

01:39:00 ◼   ► And I remember being young, and you know,

01:39:02 ◼   ► anybody who looks at Daring Fireball knows

01:39:03 ◼   ► that as a designer, I love small type.

01:39:05 ◼   ► I love it aesthetically, I do.

01:39:07 ◼   ► I like small, and I used to like to do stuff

01:39:09 ◼   ► when I was editor of school paper,

01:39:11 ◼   ► where we'd make little, like to fill in the empty ad spots,

01:39:13 ◼   ► we'd make little house ads for the paper itself,

01:39:16 ◼   ► and I would just fill them with tiny little,

01:39:18 ◼   ► literally like five or six point type in footnotes. I loved it. So I resisted bumping the text size

01:39:28 ◼   ► up as long as I could because I like it, but then once I gave in, but I'll tell you what, I want to

01:39:31 ◼   ► say something. I don't know how many people from Apple listen to the show, but I've been thinking

01:39:35 ◼   ► about this a lot lately as I experiment with what's best for me with, you know, reading glasses or

01:39:43 ◼   ► just not wearing my contacts and using regular glasses because then I can just take my glasses

01:39:46 ◼   ► often I can see I can see anything with my glasses off small print the the the

01:39:51 ◼   ► text sizing feature in in iOS where you go to display and brightness text size

01:39:59 ◼   ► and you can get to the same setting through the accessibility too and and it

01:40:03 ◼   ► says apps that to support dynamic type will adjust your preferred reading size

01:40:06 ◼   ► below it's not just that it makes text size bigger a lot of places but

01:40:11 ◼   ► especially I think starting in iOS 9 and in iOS 10 it's even better it's not just

01:40:16 ◼   ► the text is bigger, but the way it flows makes it look like it's exactly right.

01:40:21 ◼   ► Like, when they first introduced this feature a couple years ago and I played with it, I

01:40:26 ◼   ► was like, "Well, this is a great accessibility feature, and people who have vision problems

01:40:29 ◼   ► will really appreciate it."

01:40:30 ◼   ► I have a friend who has really terrible eyes.

01:40:32 ◼   ► I mean, maybe like it's like he's on the spectrum of being blind.

01:40:36 ◼   ► Not blind like you can't see, but like he really blows it up.

01:40:39 ◼   ► Like he goes to the accessibility where there's like it's beyond the top setting.

01:40:44 ◼   ► there's a special, like, "Hey, do you want to expose super big, almost ludicrously large type?"

01:40:50 ◼   ► He blows it up to there, and it's like a game changer for him, because even though it's

01:40:54 ◼   ► ridiculously big, he has absolutely no trouble reading text messages anymore. It's like,

01:40:58 ◼   ► changed his life. So I'm nowhere near that bad. I just need 1.00 reading glasses.

01:41:03 ◼   ► But I'll tell you what, I really appreciate, as somebody who appreciates fine design and was

01:41:08 ◼   ► resistant to this because I didn't want my iPhone to look worse because I was using big type,

01:41:13 ◼   ► it blows me away how I can go two clicks bigger on the type,

01:41:16 ◼   ► three clicks bigger even,

01:41:18 ◼   ► and everything still looks like it's nicely designed.

01:41:21 ◼   ► - Yes, yeah, I agree. - It looks beautiful to me.

01:41:23 ◼   ► And I look at my son's iPhone,

01:41:25 ◼   ► and his is running at the stock default size

01:41:28 ◼   ► 'cause he's 12 years old and his eyes are perfect.

01:41:31 ◼   ► I look at his now and it almost looks to me aesthetically,

01:41:34 ◼   ► just judging as to whether it's pleasing,

01:41:35 ◼   ► not whether I can read it,

01:41:36 ◼   ► but whether it's pleasing or not.

01:41:37 ◼   ► It actually looks too small to me.

01:41:39 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:41:40 ◼   ► So I really, I just wanna say,

01:41:42 ◼   ► If anybody who works on these accessibility features at Apple and the dynamic sizing stuff

01:41:46 ◼   ► that accommodates them, I can only imagine how hard that is to design something that

01:41:52 ◼   ► looks good at widely varying text sizes.

01:41:55 ◼   ► I've designed many things in my life, and it's really hard to do that, and I really

01:41:58 ◼   ► appreciate it.

01:41:59 ◼   ► And I'll tell you what.

01:42:00 ◼   ► It's like what you just said about running in ZoomDone.

01:42:02 ◼   ► When you run into an app that doesn't use dynamic type, I want to smash my iPhone.

01:42:06 ◼   ► Uber, I'm looking at you.

01:42:08 ◼   ► - The Uber app, I really, I have to get

01:42:11 ◼   ► like a magnifying glass.

01:42:12 ◼   ► - I know.

01:42:13 ◼   ► Yeah, I've been having, I, it's,

01:42:17 ◼   ► this is the type of stuff that I was talking about earlier

01:42:20 ◼   ► with, you know, the retention to detail.

01:42:24 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:42:25 ◼   ► - That other companies just don't do.

01:42:28 ◼   ► - The fact that they clearly have a team

01:42:30 ◼   ► that spent so much time system-wide across so many apps,

01:42:33 ◼   ► I have noticed one bug where mail sometimes goes back,

01:42:36 ◼   ► Mail on iOS goes back to smaller type,

01:42:39 ◼   ► and it confuses me because sometimes you get email

01:42:42 ◼   ► that's just styled text,

01:42:43 ◼   ► the person isn't sending plain text.

01:42:45 ◼   ► And I thought, oh, they just picked a small font

01:42:47 ◼   ► and it's picking it up.

01:42:47 ◼   ► But then I realized like two or three messages in a row

01:42:49 ◼   ► are too small, and I force quit mail and relaunch it,

01:42:52 ◼   ► and all of a sudden the same message

01:42:53 ◼   ► has the text that I prefer.

01:42:55 ◼   ► So I've noticed that mail, there must be just a bug

01:42:57 ◼   ► where it somehow loses track of the dynamic size.

01:43:00 ◼   ► But system-wide, messages, mail, Safari, ReaderView,

01:43:04 ◼   ► they pick up this thing and it just looks great

01:43:06 ◼   ► and I can read it and it's great.

01:43:08 ◼   ► Well, I don't need that.

01:43:09 ◼   ► So I don't have a preference.

01:43:09 ◼   ► I will say this after spending some time with both

01:43:11 ◼   ► and spending the last year on the regular 6S size.

01:43:14 ◼   ► My eyes are not at the point where I need

01:43:18 ◼   ► the bigger phone just for reading,

01:43:19 ◼   ► but I certainly, I'm at the point now

01:43:21 ◼   ► where when you say that you do,

01:43:23 ◼   ► I know exactly what you mean.

01:43:25 ◼   ► And if anybody out there is listening

01:43:26 ◼   ► who doesn't, count your blessings.

01:43:28 ◼   ► Whether if you're young, appreciate it while you have it.

01:43:32 ◼   ► I do think, one thing about my vision

01:43:34 ◼   ► and as it's getting worse as I get older,

01:43:36 ◼   ► I do feel that I didn't waste my youth with perfect vision.

01:43:39 ◼   ► I feel like I actually appreciated it while I had it.

01:43:43 ◼   ► - So did I.

01:43:44 ◼   ► - Oh my God, I told you I was sitting next to Horace Dej,

01:43:47 ◼   ► who in the thing, and he's making these

01:43:49 ◼   ► numbers spreadsheets live, like based on the numbers

01:43:52 ◼   ► that Tim Cook and Jeff Williams are giving,

01:43:54 ◼   ► he's posting these, he's so amazing in numbers.

01:43:58 ◼   ► - I know.

01:43:59 ◼   ► - Honest to God, I would just like to have a video feed

01:44:02 ◼   ► of him just working in numbers for half an hour.

01:44:04 ◼   ► But his number is spreadsheet.

01:44:07 ◼   ► It's like this expansive canvas that he pans across,

01:44:10 ◼   ► and he's got all these charts.

01:44:12 ◼   ► It's not like a bunch of different sheets.

01:44:13 ◼   ► It's like one big sheet with a whole bunch of sections.

01:44:16 ◼   ► And everything is at like six point type.

01:44:18 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:44:19 ◼   ► - Oh my God.

01:44:20 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:44:23 ◼   ► So I could basically sit beside him as a spy

01:44:25 ◼   ► and never get anything.

01:44:27 ◼   ► - No, to me it looked just like a bunch of dots,

01:44:29 ◼   ► like a little ants on screen.

01:44:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:44:33 ◼   ► Did you get, I think everybody might have gotten seated,

01:44:36 ◼   ► everybody who got review units, from what I could sell,

01:44:38 ◼   ► got the exact same two phones.