The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► We had a very fun interaction earlier today.

00:00:03 ◼   ► I find one of the ways--

00:00:05 ◼   ► I mean, clearly, overall, I am rocketing at light speed

00:00:09 ◼   ► towards crotchety old man status.

00:00:11 ◼   ► I mean, there's no doubt about it.

00:00:13 ◼   ► I can't remember.

00:00:14 ◼   ► I watch Saturday Night Live every week.

00:00:15 ◼   ► I don't remember the last time I'd ever heard of the musical guest.

00:00:19 ◼   ► Who was the musical guest?

00:00:23 ◼   ► I've already forgotten, which is another sign of--

00:00:28 ◼   ► Sure.

00:00:29 ◼   ► Short-term memory.

00:00:31 ◼   ► But there are a handful of ways where I feel like, hey, see,

00:00:36 ◼   ► I've still got it.

00:00:36 ◼   ► I'm with the kids.

00:00:37 ◼   ► And one of them is I keep using emoji more and more.

00:00:41 ◼   ► And I've noticed-- here's the thing.

00:00:45 ◼   ► When did iOS add the feature where

00:00:48 ◼   ► the auto suggestions above the keyboard include emoji?

00:00:52 ◼   ► I think that's iOS 10.

00:00:53 ◼   ► It just came out five months ago.

00:00:56 ◼   ► But I've been using it since the summer on betas.

00:00:59 ◼   ► So I've been using it for seven or eight months at least.

00:01:03 ◼   ► I have to say, I never really noticed that.

00:01:06 ◼   ► And I think part of it is I never

00:01:07 ◼   ► use those auto suggestions.

00:01:09 ◼   ► I should just close that and take the space back.

00:01:11 ◼   ► It's like I'm looking at the keyboard while I type.

00:01:14 ◼   ► And me looking at the keyboard while I type

00:01:16 ◼   ► means I don't see anything above the keyboard.

00:01:18 ◼   ► So I never use those.

00:01:19 ◼   ► And I'll bet people who do type faster.

00:01:23 ◼   ► And it does seem, when I do pay attention to it,

00:01:25 ◼   ► but it seems like the suggestions are sometimes amazing

00:01:28 ◼   ► where you can type a fairly long word

00:01:31 ◼   ► and it guesses, you know, you type like a--

00:01:35 ◼   ► - Or you just have a few words

00:01:36 ◼   ► and it guesses what the next one's gonna be.

00:01:37 ◼   ► - Right, right, like you type a-u

00:01:39 ◼   ► and somehow it guesses that you wanted

00:01:41 ◼   ► to type the word authorized

00:01:43 ◼   ► 'cause of, you know, like the context of where it is.

00:01:45 ◼   ► It's like, wow, you could really save a lot of thumb taps

00:01:48 ◼   ► by just a-u and then auto, anyway.

00:01:51 ◼   ► I noticed I've--

00:01:53 ◼   ► - Well, you're too old for that now.

00:01:54 ◼   ► But I'm starting to notice those emoji that pop up as a suggestion. And so I sent one to you.

00:01:58 ◼   ► And I said the word "think" and when you type the word "think" there's like a little like

00:02:04 ◼   ► thought cloud with a thing and you said, you said it looks more like a fart than a thought.

00:02:11 ◼   ► And I thought, well, I've got to use that immediately. And within like 10 seconds of

00:02:16 ◼   ► paging through what can I connect the fart emoji to.

00:02:21 ◼   ► I found the poodle, the dog, the dog emoji, and it's even pointing the

00:02:26 ◼   ► right way where the little dot of the

00:02:31 ◼   ► puffy cloud is coming from the dog. You should get that into the

00:02:36 ◼   ► show notes. I happen to know that you have a big

00:02:40 ◼   ► white poodle. I do, yeah. I know that's the great

00:02:44 ◼   ► thing about that is like, I mean, he's not, thank God, you know, this was an argument early on when

00:02:49 ◼   ► we got the dog with my wife was like, you know, if we're getting a poodle, I want it to be cut like a

00:02:53 ◼   ► regular dog. I don't want to have it cut like, first of all, I want it to be a big poodle. I

00:02:56 ◼   ► didn't want some tiny little like teacup, you know, thing that's like shaking all the time.

00:03:01 ◼   ► So, that was number one. Number two was like, I can't have him cut like fancy show poodle. So,

00:03:09 ◼   ► he's mostly cut like a regular dog. He's got kind of like a poofy head and usually his tail's a

00:03:14 ◼   ► little bushy, but for the rest, this is usually fairly straightforward dog cut. So he doesn't

00:03:23 ◼   ► look exactly like that, but he is white and yeah, so it's kind of perfect. It is actually,

00:03:31 ◼   ► the emoji is actually named Poodle. I don't know why Poodles, among all dogs, deserve

00:03:38 ◼   ► their own emoji. Like, like what gets an emoji and what doesn't is sometimes so bizarrely,

00:03:43 ◼   ► like, why is poodle its own thing? How many other—there must be other dogs there.

00:03:51 ◼   ► I'm looking. I typed dog, and there's one that's just dog. It's just a generic dog.

00:03:56 ◼   ► And then there's poodle, and I think that's it. Oh, and then there's also

00:04:00 ◼   ► dog face. There's also dog face. Oh, yeah, there's faces.

00:04:06 ◼   ► Poodles are great dogs.

00:04:10 ◼   ► I do not have a dog.

00:04:12 ◼   ► This is a conversation that occasionally comes up

00:04:15 ◼   ► in the Gruber household of whether or not

00:04:18 ◼   ► we should get a dog.

00:04:19 ◼   ► My belief is that we travel too much,

00:04:24 ◼   ► and we don't have any kind of friends or family who

00:04:29 ◼   ► live near us by design.

00:04:30 ◼   ► And so it would be like a kennel situation.

00:04:36 ◼   ► several times a year and I just feel like I don't feel like that's good for

00:04:39 ◼   ► the dog and I mean I know that like that kennels are a little different than they

00:04:44 ◼   ► used to be I think that there's they're a little bit more like camp yeah pause

00:04:49 ◼   ► yeah so that that's good you know like when we were kids I mean like when

00:04:54 ◼   ► people had to put their dogs in a kennel they just put them like in a cage like

00:04:58 ◼   ► like a look yeah yeah two by four cage and it's that's that's terrible

00:05:04 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, no, he and he for a while he was going to like everyone like when we got desperate when we get desperate

00:05:11 ◼   ► He's gone to this place that has like they sleep in cages, but then during the day, it's a doggy daycare thing

00:05:18 ◼   ► So he's out running around with a whole bunch of other dogs in like a in a big room

00:05:22 ◼   ► Which is I think kind of fun for him. Although he doesn't I don't think he likes staying outside of the house

00:05:27 ◼   ► I think he gets anxiety about that. So he

00:05:30 ◼   ► now we have this this

00:05:33 ◼   ► the daughter of someone that Karen used to work with and her boyfriend come and stay and

00:05:41 ◼   ► I don't think the daughter likes the grant very much, but the boyfriend loves grant

00:05:47 ◼   ► So they take they have a they apparently have a great time together

00:05:52 ◼   ► And they're they're coming back to the next time we go away

00:05:56 ◼   ► So they've only done that once before but we were gone for like two weeks. So, you know, I

00:06:01 ◼   ► I think this is a Shiba Inu, if I'm not mistaken. So there's Poodle, and then there's Shiba Inu.

00:06:09 ◼   ► Yeah, but when you hover over it, it just says "dog." So that might be what they've—

00:06:13 ◼   ► Oh, was it? Oh, okay. Well, yeah, but I mean, it's the Japanese dog.

00:06:16 ◼   ► So it makes sense that that would be the look. What's your dog's name? We shouldn't just grant.

00:06:21 ◼   ► Grant. Grant.

00:06:22 ◼   ► Grant.

00:06:22 ◼   ► Like Ulysses S.

00:06:24 ◼   ► Like Ulysses S, yeah.

00:06:26 ◼   ► I love a Poodle.

00:06:28 ◼   ► It was one of our babies.

00:06:29 ◼   ► If we were to get a dog, a poodle would be on the short list. You know what you never hear about a

00:06:32 ◼   ► poodle when somebody has a poodle? You never hear, "Well, that's a miserable, angry dog."

00:06:36 ◼   ► That's true. That's true. He's pretty good natured. I mean, he barks like crazy at anything that goes

00:06:44 ◼   ► down the street, but he's good with us. And the kid's not bad now, but when he was a little

00:06:50 ◼   ► younger, he could be rough and he's never bitten them.

00:06:55 ◼   ► Amy had a poodle growing up named Andy and he was a really good dog.

00:06:59 ◼   ► So among the things that I like about poodles, they have good dispositions, they do not shed.

00:07:04 ◼   ► And they're hypoallergenic. That's the real reason we needed to get a poodle because Karen's

00:07:12 ◼   ► little... But even if you're not allergic, it's like the stuff that people are allergic to,

00:07:18 ◼   ► It kind of has a smell, in my opinion.

00:07:23 ◼   ► And the hair thing is-- it would drive me nuts.

00:07:26 ◼   ► So good disposition.

00:07:28 ◼   ► And they live a long time.

00:07:29 ◼   ► They're a long-living breed.

00:07:33 ◼   ► I have a friend, a friend from college, who has-- well,

00:07:38 ◼   ► I guess at this point it's been so long--

00:07:40 ◼   ► has had a series of Great Danes with his wife and family.

00:07:44 ◼   ► And the Great Danes, they're beautiful dogs.

00:07:47 ◼   ► I mean, they're magnificent.

00:07:49 ◼   ► I mean, but they're also, to me, terrifying,

00:07:51 ◼   ► because if they stood up, they'd be like eight feet tall.

00:07:54 ◼   ► But they're apparently so good-natured.

00:07:56 ◼   ► They're so sweet.

00:07:57 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:07:57 ◼   ► That's what he says when we've talked about it,

00:07:59 ◼   ► that they really are like Marmaduke.

00:08:06 ◼   ► But they only live like six years.

00:08:08 ◼   ► It's heartbreaking.

00:08:09 ◼   ► It's like you're signing up for a series--

00:08:11 ◼   ► That's terrible.

00:08:12 ◼   ► --a constant series of family heartbreak, where--

00:08:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:16 ◼   ► Right.

00:08:17 ◼   ► But the dog is magnificent and has a great disposition and is truly part of the family, and

00:08:20 ◼   ► he's gone. [laughter]

00:08:25 ◼   ► Karen was at the vet with Grant one time, and there was a woman there with a Great Dane, and

00:08:30 ◼   ► the dog was just, you know, was completely a wreck because he knew he was at the vet, and like, you

00:08:35 ◼   ► know, it was totally nervous. And so he was sitting on her lap. But because his front legs were so

00:08:44 ◼   ► long. He had his front legs on the floor and his butt on her woman's lap.

00:08:50 ◼   ► And he could just like, you know, then he was shivering because he was terrified.

00:08:55 ◼   ► Amy had a poodle and he lived, I think Andy was, I swear to God, I think he might have been like

00:09:02 ◼   ► 18 when he died, which is, yeah, I mean at least 17. It was really a long time. And he was like

00:09:08 ◼   ► stone-cold deaf for the last few years. But it was as though he could still imagine sounds.

00:09:15 ◼   ► And so he'd be sleeping. And it was just great. He was a great dog his whole life,

00:09:23 ◼   ► and he was great in old age. But there was a vent near the family, like I-Mac, to the side,

00:09:30 ◼   ► a vent in the floor. And that was his spot, because he'd just soak up the heat.

00:09:36 ◼   ► And every once in a while, he'd just snap out of his sleep,

00:09:38 ◼   ► because he dreamed us out, and go roaring towards the door

00:09:42 ◼   ► like a young dog barking up a storm.

00:09:45 ◼   ► Maybe he imagined the mailman was there.

00:09:48 ◼   ► But there was no longer any correlation between the mailman actually coming in

00:09:51 ◼   ► when he would--

00:09:51 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:09:54 ◼   ► No idea.

00:09:55 ◼   ► Oh, man.

00:09:56 ◼   ► I had a dog growing up who was--

00:09:57 ◼   ► we just saw an ad in the paper and just took--

00:10:04 ◼   ► not really a rescue dog, but just some woman, literally like a trailer park, Chester. I loved

00:10:11 ◼   ► the son of a bitch. But he was really nasty. He was supposedly about three quarters poodle and

00:10:19 ◼   ► one quarter Pekingese. And I think the nasty part came from the Pekingese. He had...

00:10:23 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer** It does. Yeah. Karen had Pekingese growing up and she

00:10:26 ◼   ► said she got bit all the time. They would just bite you constantly.

00:10:31 ◼   ► Well, Chester would-- he was sort of built more like a poodle.

00:10:35 ◼   ► Did not shed, but he didn't-- his hair was curly-ish,

00:10:38 ◼   ► but not like poodle-tight curls.

00:10:40 ◼   ► Black and white.

00:10:41 ◼   ► And he had a terrible underbite.

00:10:44 ◼   ► It was not from good breeding.

00:10:48 ◼   ► But I love the son of a bitch.

00:10:50 ◼   ► And when he was in a good mood, he was the greatest dog.

00:10:52 ◼   ► And he was kind of smart.

00:10:53 ◼   ► And then, winter, we used to put t-shirts on him.

00:10:56 ◼   ► We would just buy like a size four toddler,

00:11:01 ◼   ► cut out a little bit for peeing at the belly,

00:11:05 ◼   ► and then put it on backwards so that the logo would

00:11:07 ◼   ► be on his back.

00:11:08 ◼   ► And he used to love wearing shirts.

00:11:10 ◼   ► And you could just say, Chetty, go get your shirt.

00:11:13 ◼   ► And it was as though you said, Chetty,

00:11:16 ◼   ► I'm going to give you a hamburger.

00:11:18 ◼   ► He would light up, and he'd go tearing

00:11:22 ◼   ► to where we kept his shirt, get it, and then bring it to you.

00:11:26 ◼   ► It was. He could be so smart. But then the other thing he would like to do is he would like to crawl under

00:11:33 ◼   ► any of our sofas and just stay there for hours at a time. And if your feet got near him, he'd snap at him.

00:11:41 ◼   ► I swear to God. Swear to God. He'd stay under for three or four hours.

00:11:49 ◼   ► And sometimes when he was down there, he would just go, he would just be like a low growl.

00:11:55 ◼   ► Nonstop.

00:11:56 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:11:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, little dogs like that,

00:11:59 ◼   ► they have a tendency to love being in--

00:12:02 ◼   ► because we had a Westie and a Scotty when I was growing up.

00:12:07 ◼   ► And the Scotty-- actually, the Scotty was half Westie, too.

00:12:09 ◼   ► And the Scotty-- which, those two dogs did not get along.

00:12:14 ◼   ► But the people who lived next door had a Westie.

00:12:17 ◼   ► And our Scotty got along really well with their Westie.

00:12:19 ◼   ► And so that dog would come in and out of our house

00:12:22 ◼   ► all the time.

00:12:22 ◼   ► And I remember one time we had to go someplace.

00:12:26 ◼   ► And they're like, you got to get--

00:12:27 ◼   ► I can't remember that other dog's name.

00:12:28 ◼   ► You got to get him out.

00:12:29 ◼   ► Get him out.

00:12:30 ◼   ► And so I go upstairs, and the two of them are just like--

00:12:33 ◼   ► they're under my parents' bed.

00:12:34 ◼   ► They're just like under there, like, making a fort.

00:12:37 ◼   ► And I try and reach under there to grab them.

00:12:39 ◼   ► And they're both like, [GROWLS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► I loved Chetty.

00:12:44 ◼   ► Like reaching into a den of raccoons.

00:12:46 ◼   ► I love that dog for his effectively bipolar nature.

00:12:51 ◼   ► loved it. The other thing about Chester was he was a complete idiot.

00:13:00 ◼   ► Whenever he met a strange dog he would want to attack it and you know he was

00:13:04 ◼   ► only like I don't know less than knee-high. It wasn't like a tiny little

00:13:08 ◼   ► dog but he you know he was like a regular poodle not the big standard

00:13:10 ◼   ► poodle size and he would go after like you know like if he saw like somebody

00:13:15 ◼   ► walking a Doberman or whatever he'd want to get in a fight and it's like what are

00:13:18 ◼   ► What are you thinking? You have no chance. Like if he was left to his own in nature,

00:13:23 ◼   ► he'd be dead. He would find a big dog and go get killed. Yeah, they're not bright.

00:13:30 ◼   ► He did have, he had the same thing where he knew when he was going to the vet and he would be

00:13:35 ◼   ► terrified. And we used to take him in a car, lots of places, including places that were in the

00:13:39 ◼   ► general vicinity of where the vet was. And somehow he always knew, always.

00:13:46 ◼   ► Yeah, well, he was always like that with when we take him to doggy daycare.

00:13:49 ◼   ► We don't take him very much anymore because we both work out of the house now. But

00:13:52 ◼   ► when we get quite close to the block where the doggy daycare was, he'd start going,

00:13:56 ◼   ► I just get super excited because he'd know that he was going to just run around like an idiot for

00:14:01 ◼   ► four hours with some other dogs.

00:14:02 ◼   ► Oh, good stuff.

00:14:05 ◼   ► So yeah, you should get a dog.

00:14:07 ◼   ► Here, let me take a break. What a better what better time is there

00:14:12 ◼   ► to talk about a new sponsor.

00:14:15 ◼   ► Here we go.

00:14:15 ◼   ► This is great.

00:14:18 ◼   ► Today's episode is brought to you by SetApp, S-E-T-A-P-P.

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00:14:25 ◼   ► using the best apps for your Mac.

00:14:28 ◼   ► What it is is effectively--

00:14:30 ◼   ► I mean, this isn't their words, but it's mine.

00:14:32 ◼   ► It's Netflix for Mac apps.

00:14:35 ◼   ► You pay $10 a month--

00:14:37 ◼   ► I think it's $9.99-- $10 a month subscription.

00:14:41 ◼   ► and you get access to all of the apps that are participating

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00:14:47 ◼   ► Developers obviously opt into this,

00:14:50 ◼   ► and they've worked out some kind of deal

00:14:52 ◼   ► where they all get a share.

00:14:54 ◼   ► I don't know how they're doing it.

00:14:55 ◼   ► It's not our business how they're dividing the money.

00:14:59 ◼   ► But the service is brought to you by MacPaw,

00:15:02 ◼   ► and they're a company that's been around for a long time.

00:15:06 ◼   ► They do programs like CleanMyMac and a few others.

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00:15:12 ◼   ► Great company.

00:15:13 ◼   ► I've known them for a while, and they've sponsored Daring

00:15:15 ◼   ► Fireball many times.

00:15:19 ◼   ► SetApp, they've been working on this for a while.

00:15:21 ◼   ► They briefed me on this all the way back at WWDC.

00:15:23 ◼   ► And it's truly-- I mean, I'm not saying this just

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00:15:27 ◼   ► It is a very ambitious idea.

00:15:29 ◼   ► The idea is they're going to collect $10 a month

00:15:32 ◼   ► from tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands-- who knows,

00:15:36 ◼   ► at some point, a million users, wherever this is going to grow.

00:15:39 ◼   ► and that these people will have this access

00:15:41 ◼   ► to all of these apps.

00:15:42 ◼   ► Right now, they just launched last month,

00:15:44 ◼   ► just a few weeks ago.

00:15:45 ◼   ► Some of just, I can't name all the apps,

00:15:49 ◼   ► but these are really good apps.

00:15:50 ◼   ► There's apps in there like Ulysses,

00:15:51 ◼   ► which is a writing tool, sort of like Xcode for writing,

00:15:55 ◼   ► like a thing where you can build up big writing projects.

00:15:58 ◼   ► RapidWeaver 7, CleanMyMac from MacPaw themselves,

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00:16:12 ◼   ► When one of the apps in the program comes up with an update,

00:16:14 ◼   ► you'll just get the software update.

00:16:17 ◼   ► It's just a huge collection.

00:16:19 ◼   ► And the more successful it gets, the more apps

00:16:22 ◼   ► might join in the future.

00:16:24 ◼   ► Right now, already, I have no hesitation

00:16:26 ◼   ► saying that with the library of apps

00:16:29 ◼   ► that they have right now, as you listen to me say this,

00:16:31 ◼   ► easily worth $10 a month.

00:16:33 ◼   ► Easily.

00:16:33 ◼   ► It's a value at $10 a month.

00:16:35 ◼   ► If it grows even more, it's going to get even better.

00:16:37 ◼   ► And here's the other thing, you can try it for 30 days for free.

00:16:42 ◼   ► So you don't even have to pay them the first $10 up front to get it.

00:16:45 ◼   ► You can just go there, sign up, see how it works, see how easy it is,

00:16:49 ◼   ► see how many apps there are.

00:16:51 ◼   ► And at the end of the month, even if there's just like one or

00:16:53 ◼   ► two of the apps that you like, you're already getting a pretty good deal.

00:16:57 ◼   ► You just pay $10 a month.

00:17:00 ◼   ► So go to setapp.com.

00:17:03 ◼   ► It's really, there's never been anybody,

00:17:06 ◼   ► There have been bundles before, many times, there still are on the Mac, where you can pay a low fee,

00:17:11 ◼   ► like you pay 50 bucks one time and you get a bundle of three or four or five hundred dollars worth of apps.

00:17:17 ◼   ► And there you go. There have been bundles before.

00:17:20 ◼   ► Apple several years ago introduced the App Store, which is a new thing, but there's never been anything like this,

00:17:26 ◼   ► like a subscription service where you get apps from an entire wide range of indie Mac developers.

00:17:33 ◼   ► So I really hope this thing takes off.

00:17:35 ◼   ► I think it's already a great value.

00:17:37 ◼   ► Go to setapp.com and find out more.

00:17:40 ◼   ► No special URL, no code, they just want setapp.com.

00:17:44 ◼   ► They'll know that they're daring.

00:17:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, I had heard about this and I couldn't,

00:17:47 ◼   ► I didn't know exactly how it works.

00:17:50 ◼   ► That's really cool.

00:17:51 ◼   ► - It is as simple as it sounds.

00:17:52 ◼   ► There is no catch.

00:17:54 ◼   ► There is no catch.

00:17:54 ◼   ► There's no ads, there's no hook,

00:17:56 ◼   ► there's no thing where you have to pay more,

00:17:58 ◼   ► there's no, they're not junior versions of the programs.

00:18:00 ◼   ► It is exactly what you,

00:18:02 ◼   ► If you're thinking it's too good to be true, it's not.

00:18:05 ◼   ► There is no catch.

00:18:07 ◼   ► The thing I always find with those bundles is they often--

00:18:10 ◼   ► like developers seem to like put--

00:18:13 ◼   ► they'll put their previous version into the bundle

00:18:16 ◼   ► because they know the new version is coming out soon.

00:18:18 ◼   ► So they want to get you to pay the upgrade price when

00:18:20 ◼   ► the new version comes out.

00:18:22 ◼   ► But this is not that.

00:18:24 ◼   ► When they first pitched me on it at WWDC,

00:18:27 ◼   ► they wanted a couple of minutes with me just

00:18:29 ◼   ► to see what I thought, my ideas.

00:18:31 ◼   ► I got very defensive in the meeting.

00:18:33 ◼   ► I like them, they're nice people,

00:18:34 ◼   ► but I did because I thought, well, tell me what the catch is.

00:18:37 ◼   ► And my gut feeling was, and they were talking,

00:18:40 ◼   ► like we think we'll sponsor Derek Fireball

00:18:42 ◼   ► when we come out and maybe the talk show, et cetera.

00:18:45 ◼   ► And my thought at the first moment was,

00:18:47 ◼   ► I don't know if I'm gonna be able to accept this

00:18:49 ◼   ► because if there's gonna be some kind of ornerous catch

00:18:52 ◼   ► that's going to trick people, and there is no catch.

00:18:56 ◼   ► I wouldn't take the sponsorship if it were.

00:18:58 ◼   ► It's that simple and it's a great deal,

00:18:59 ◼   ► So go check them out, set up, setapp.com.

00:19:02 ◼   ► We could parlay that into one of the topics

00:19:08 ◼   ► I wanted to talk about this week was the iPad.

00:19:13 ◼   ► This set app is obviously because of the nature of iOS,

00:19:16 ◼   ► it's Mac only.

00:19:17 ◼   ► One of the things I've written about this week

00:19:21 ◼   ► was the difference between the iPad as a 7G processor

00:19:28 ◼   ► the iPad as a seven-year-old platform

00:19:30 ◼   ► and the Mac as a seven-year-old platform back in 1991,

00:19:34 ◼   ► and just how much more powerful the Mac was as a platform

00:19:39 ◼   ► after seven years than the iPad is.

00:19:42 ◼   ► In terms of, I struggle to find a term for this.

00:19:45 ◼   ► I called it self-sufficiency.

00:19:47 ◼   ► In other words, can you just use this platform

00:19:51 ◼   ► to do everything?

00:19:53 ◼   ► And two examples of things that you can't do on an iPad

00:19:57 ◼   ► would be you can't make iPad apps on an iPad

00:20:00 ◼   ► because there's no Xcode for iPad or anything even similar.

00:20:04 ◼   ► And the other example,

00:20:06 ◼   ► which I think is a little bit more like a head scratcher,

00:20:08 ◼   ► is that you can't make,

00:20:11 ◼   ► there's no iBooks author for iPad.

00:20:13 ◼   ► Like it's clear that iBooks author,

00:20:16 ◼   ► that that format is best on iPad.

00:20:22 ◼   ► It works on your phone and you can read it on your Mac too

00:20:25 ◼   ► in the iBooks app.

00:20:27 ◼   ► But when somebody makes one of these rich, interactive iBooks,

00:20:31 ◼   ► it is no doubt in my mind that it is best on an iPad

00:20:34 ◼   ► with touch and with the sort of viewing intimacy of the iPad.

00:20:40 ◼   ► That when you read a book, it's no surprise.

00:20:44 ◼   ► This is literally from the 2010 iPad announcement

00:20:48 ◼   ► with Steve Jobs, why he had that chair there.

00:20:51 ◼   ► It's a device for sitting back in a chair

00:20:54 ◼   ► and reading, which is what you do with a book.

00:20:57 ◼   ► But you can't make an iPad book on an iPad,

00:21:00 ◼   ► because there's no iPad author--

00:21:02 ◼   ► or is that what it's called?

00:21:03 ◼   ► iBooks author.

00:21:04 ◼   ► iBooks author.

00:21:05 ◼   ► Yeah, no, iBooks author.

00:21:06 ◼   ► Is only a Mac app.

00:21:07 ◼   ► And I think that's a little weird.

00:21:09 ◼   ► I think it would have been weird if seven years into the Mac,

00:21:12 ◼   ► you still couldn't create Mac apps on a Mac,

00:21:14 ◼   ► and even weirder if you couldn't create the documents you

00:21:19 ◼   ► want to read on the Mac on a Mac.

00:21:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it seems like an easy way,

00:21:24 ◼   ► I mean, it seems like an easy one to do.

00:21:26 ◼   ► I mean, like, not necessarily easy,

00:21:28 ◼   ► like from a programming perspective,

00:21:30 ◼   ► but it doesn't really ruin their philosophy to do that.

00:21:35 ◼   ► I mean, it works with the philosophy

00:21:39 ◼   ► rather than against it.

00:21:42 ◼   ► - I think, yeah, and I think that the Xcode,

00:21:47 ◼   ► the idea of Xcode on iPad sort of works

00:21:51 ◼   ► against that philosophy, I think it will happen eventually.

00:21:54 ◼   ► And I'm pretty sure Apple is working on it.

00:21:56 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure there is an Xcode for iPad that's

00:22:00 ◼   ► been several years in the works in Cupertino,

00:22:04 ◼   ► but it's a lower priority.

00:22:05 ◼   ► But I don't have any information on how it works.

00:22:08 ◼   ► I just know that there's a team working on something like that.

00:22:10 ◼   ► But shocker, there's teams working on just about anything

00:22:13 ◼   ► that makes sense like that.

00:22:15 ◼   ► But I kind of think, though, that it might be

00:22:18 ◼   ► a different way of making apps.

00:22:20 ◼   ► Like, the way that Xcode works now on the Mac

00:22:25 ◼   ► is a very, very Unix-y behind the scenes.

00:22:28 ◼   ► It's a very, very Unix-y thing.

00:22:33 ◼   ► It's just a visual front end for a lot of things

00:22:36 ◼   ► that run at the command line level, which isn't really--

00:22:39 ◼   ► there is a Unix, obviously, with the core OS being the same.

00:22:42 ◼   ► That's there on iPad.

00:22:44 ◼   ► But I'm not quite sure that that works,

00:22:46 ◼   ► that that would work the same way.

00:22:47 ◼   ► I think it might be a more simplified way to make apps.

00:22:50 ◼   ► They would be real apps, but more, I don't know,

00:22:54 ◼   ► less fiddly.

00:22:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:58 ◼   ► Like Flash?

00:22:59 ◼   ► Sort of, maybe.

00:22:59 ◼   ► You know, like--

00:23:01 ◼   ► Ironically, right?

00:23:02 ◼   ► --I wouldn't be surprised if--

00:23:03 ◼   ► I would guess that it would work like this,

00:23:05 ◼   ► that they'd come out with a new way

00:23:07 ◼   ► to make apps that's a little simpler, a little bit higher

00:23:10 ◼   ► level, more abstract.

00:23:13 ◼   ► And you could share that same project with Xcode on the Mac

00:23:19 ◼   ► so that the one you're developing on the iPad,

00:23:21 ◼   ► you could develop on the Mac.

00:23:22 ◼   ► But if you have a more complex app or a legacy app

00:23:25 ◼   ► that was already started on Xcode on the Mac,

00:23:28 ◼   ► that not everything you do on the Mac,

00:23:30 ◼   ► you could do on the iPad version,

00:23:32 ◼   ► but everything you do on the iPad, you could do on the Mac.

00:23:33 ◼   ► Does that make sense?

00:23:35 ◼   ► I could see that.

00:23:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:23:37 ◼   ► - But I think that the iBooks author thing

00:23:39 ◼   ► is more telling about Apple's priorities

00:23:42 ◼   ► and where they see the iPad.

00:23:45 ◼   ► I just...

00:23:47 ◼   ► Because I think in theory it should be there.

00:23:50 ◼   ► And I think one of the reasons it's not

00:23:52 ◼   ► is sort of proof on this whole, like,

00:23:57 ◼   ► are people worried about Apple's commitment

00:23:59 ◼   ► to the future of the Mac?

00:24:00 ◼   ► I think it's one of those things that makes my case, which

00:24:03 ◼   ► I've been arguing on the show with the last few guests,

00:24:05 ◼   ► in favor of, I don't think Apple has--

00:24:07 ◼   ► I don't think Apple is any less committed to the Mac

00:24:10 ◼   ► than at any point in the past.

00:24:11 ◼   ► I think the Mac has a bright future.

00:24:13 ◼   ► And I think the fact that they don't have--

00:24:15 ◼   ► know, they see it as fine that iBooks Author is Mac only is is evident of that.

00:24:22 ◼   ► Yeah, but when was the last time they updated it? There was a minor update in,

00:24:26 ◼   ► I looked, I thought it was like forever ago. Like maybe the bigger problem with iBooks Author is that

00:24:31 ◼   ► they're just not committed to iBooks period. That they sort of lost their corporate,

00:24:39 ◼   ► I don't know, I was gonna say Stiffy. Stiffy for iBooks ever since, you know,

00:24:48 ◼   ► since they got sued. I mean they came out of the gate. I mean they even had a special event

00:24:53 ◼   ► just for iBooks. It was that weird one-off event at the, what the heck is the name of that museum

00:25:01 ◼   ► in New York? I'm terrible with stuff like that. Anyway, the one from Men in Black. I know it was

00:25:08 ◼   ► Men in Black. They had a big... Yeah, like in the first Men in Black where...

00:25:14 ◼   ► Oh, in the beginning where he chases... Is it the Guggenheim?

00:25:19 ◼   ► Yeah, the Guggenheim. That's it. Yeah. Will Smith chases an alien

00:25:25 ◼   ► up there, and that's how he kind of draws the attention of the Men in Black.

00:25:28 ◼   ► Yeah. Just as a quick aside, Peter Cohen mentioned this today on Twitter, which blew my mind. Did you

00:25:35 ◼   ► know that the you know the guy you know Edgar and that and then movie the guy yeah the the bug that

00:25:41 ◼   ► puts the skin on the guy's skin on oh the the the alien the alien like i mean he's like he's the

00:25:51 ◼   ► guy i mean he's like the main bad guy right and he you know but he skins that he eats the guy

00:25:56 ◼   ► skins him and puts his skin on that that's Vincent D'Onofrio i knew that i had no idea that blew my

00:26:02 ◼   ► mind. I was like, "Oh my god, that's incredible." Anyway, I did know that. He doesn't really...

00:26:08 ◼   ► I think it's easy. He doesn't really look like him for more than 30 seconds.

00:26:12 ◼   ► Yeah, that's... Maybe that's why.

00:26:15 ◼   ► If you listen to him, though, you can definitely hear that it's him. Good movie. I love that movie.

00:26:20 ◼   ► That's a great movie.

00:26:22 ◼   ► I see it as evidence that Apple is committed to the Mac, that they're willing to do it.

00:26:29 ◼   ► I would be frustrated though, what I would be frustrated, and it's fine by me because I love

00:26:34 ◼   ► the Mac. I would rather, I would gladly, if somebody said to me, you can only use out of

00:26:41 ◼   ► iPhone, iPad, and Mac, you can only use two of the three for the next year and you can't touch the

00:26:46 ◼   ► other one. I would instantly, it would take me, it would take me less time than to say it. I would

00:26:50 ◼   ► just say get rid of the iPad. Mac and iPhone are all I need. iPad is totally a secondary thing for

00:26:57 ◼   ► me. In fact, I sometimes go like a week and I don't even know where the hell my iPad is.

00:27:02 ◼   ► I do like it. I use it mostly, I swear, my most frequent use is in baseball season using it as

00:27:09 ◼   ► a TV to watch Yankees games. Yeah, yeah. That's probably, I mean, I think entertainment is now,

00:27:16 ◼   ► I used to take it when I commuted up to Seattle, I would take it to right with a keyboard. But now

00:27:22 ◼   ► it's basically games and watching Netflix.

00:27:29 ◼   ► Anything...so for me as somebody who, from my work, wants the Mac to remain a thriving platform,

00:27:36 ◼   ► it's music to my ears. Like, I would actually be slightly more worried if the iPad were more capable

00:27:42 ◼   ► because it would at least lend some credence to the idea that Apple thinks the iPad is the future of personal computing.

00:27:48 ◼   ► The fact that it isn't, even after seven years,

00:27:52 ◼   ► it actually just gives me confidence

00:27:53 ◼   ► in their commitment to the Mac.

00:27:54 ◼   ► But I'd be frustrated, and it would be angering to me,

00:27:57 ◼   ► if I were one of the people who's really trying

00:28:00 ◼   ► to make a go of using the iPad as their full-time platform,

00:28:04 ◼   ► you know, the Ben Brooks' and Federico's of the world.

00:28:08 ◼   ► I would find that very frustrating.

00:28:10 ◼   ► 'Cause it's, seven years, it really makes me think about,

00:28:12 ◼   ► you know, this comparison to,

00:28:14 ◼   ► and for some reason, I mean,

00:28:17 ◼   ► System 7 seems like an arbitrary number, but it's funny because 1991 was when I got my

00:28:21 ◼   ► first Mac.

00:28:22 ◼   ► I mean, I used one in school before, but I didn't own one.

00:28:25 ◼   ► And it's when System 7 came out, which was a big, big landmark in—I mean, I think it

00:28:34 ◼   ► was the landmark.

00:28:35 ◼   ► Yeah, in the early days.

00:28:36 ◼   ► I would say System 7 was the division between the early days of macOS and the later days

00:28:42 ◼   ► of macOS.

00:28:43 ◼   ► I mean, maybe that's a little arbitrary, but I don't think so.

00:28:46 ◼   ► I mean, it was when they changed a whole bunch of things.

00:28:48 ◼   ► Like, remember when control panels,

00:28:52 ◼   ► I forget how you used to install them in System 6.

00:28:53 ◼   ► They were sort of more like suitcase type things.

00:28:56 ◼   ► Where in--

00:28:57 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, that's right.

00:28:58 ◼   ► God, that's right, yeah.

00:29:00 ◼   ► - Third party ones were weird.

00:29:02 ◼   ► And then in System 7, control panels became a lot more

00:29:06 ◼   ► like apps where they were just self-contained things

00:29:08 ◼   ► and you just put them in a folder.

00:29:09 ◼   ► And there was your system folder at the root level

00:29:11 ◼   ► and inside was a folder called control panels

00:29:13 ◼   ► and you just put them in there.

00:29:15 ◼   ► And you wanted to uninstall one.

00:29:16 ◼   ► you just took it out and restarted.

00:29:18 ◼   ► It was a beautiful system.

00:29:22 ◼   ► - It was, yeah, it was. - It was.

00:29:25 ◼   ► - It just crashed all the time.

00:29:27 ◼   ► - But no, I disagree, I disagree, I really do.

00:29:31 ◼   ► I don't like it when people say

00:29:32 ◼   ► that the System 7 era Macs crashed all the time.

00:29:35 ◼   ► I think the arc of being a power user

00:29:39 ◼   ► on System 7 era Macs was you would start

00:29:43 ◼   ► running the basic system and you would be like you'd fall in love with the Mac

00:29:47 ◼   ► and then you'd get into the nerd community and you'd start finding out

00:29:50 ◼   ► about an it's yeah and extensions and these extensions could sometimes do like

00:29:56 ◼   ► just change like a little slight thing but it's like oh I like that like now

00:30:00 ◼   ► your mouse cursor is a dog you know right right and that's kind of easy

00:30:05 ◼   ► like all that and it would do is just sort of swap out the system's cursor and

00:30:10 ◼   ► and point to this other cursor instead, and okay,

00:30:13 ◼   ► there you go, now your cursor is a smurf.

00:30:15 ◼   ► And you'd get more and more,

00:30:21 ◼   ► and then all of a sudden when you go empty trash,

00:30:24 ◼   ► Oscar the Grouch pops out of your trash can

00:30:27 ◼   ► and sings a song, which was adorable.

00:30:30 ◼   ► Like if you didn't have the Grouch extension

00:30:33 ◼   ► installed on your Mac for at least a month or two,

00:30:36 ◼   ► then you've got no soul.

00:30:37 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:30:42 ◼   ► But the problem is it leads to such--

00:30:44 ◼   ► yeah, I mean, I think what happened was in those early days,

00:30:47 ◼   ► we didn't have enough stuff that would really

00:30:54 ◼   ► cause a lot of trouble.

00:30:55 ◼   ► And then as more things came out,

00:30:57 ◼   ► it became worse and worse and worse.

00:30:59 ◼   ► And then by the time System 8 came out,

00:31:01 ◼   ► they had to basically put a thing in there

00:31:04 ◼   ► to manage all your freaking--

00:31:07 ◼   ► I remember specifically the one that everybody knew.

00:31:10 ◼   ► I mean, at least anybody who did design work

00:31:11 ◼   ► had to have an extension called Adobe Type Manager, ATM.

00:31:16 ◼   ► Did you have ATM?

00:31:17 ◼   ► Or no, because you didn't--

00:31:18 ◼   ► I don't think I did, but I didn't do that kind of stuff.

00:31:21 ◼   ► So the thing that ATM did was natively,

00:31:25 ◼   ► the system wanted true type fonts for vector fonts.

00:31:29 ◼   ► But almost all of the professional fonts

00:31:31 ◼   ► that you could buy were in postscript format.

00:31:36 ◼   ► And to get them to look WYSIWYG on screen, you needed Adobe Type Manager.

00:31:42 ◼   ► Apple's system didn't natively render postscript fonts.

00:31:47 ◼   ► And you needed postscript fonts to do serious work, so you'd have to have ATM installed.

00:31:51 ◼   ► But ATM would load first because it starts with an A. I mean, it almost certainly loaded first,

00:31:57 ◼   ► and if not, it certainly loaded early. But you had to load it last because it

00:32:03 ◼   ► It would get conflicted with so much stuff.

00:32:05 ◼   ► You had to load it last.

00:32:06 ◼   ► So everybody-- I think it even shipped.

00:32:08 ◼   ► I think when you installed it from Adobe,

00:32:10 ◼   ► if you bought it straight up legit-- I forget even

00:32:12 ◼   ► if you had to buy it.

00:32:13 ◼   ► Maybe they gave it away.

00:32:14 ◼   ► But the way Adobe gave it to you,

00:32:16 ◼   ► the file was named like tilde ATM.

00:32:20 ◼   ► I forget what character it was before it.

00:32:22 ◼   ► But it was some kind of punctuation character

00:32:24 ◼   ► that in Apple's sorting algorithm at the time

00:32:27 ◼   ► would load last.

00:32:30 ◼   ► And that was a little-- anyway, in my opinion,

00:32:32 ◼   ► The curve of being a Mac power user in the '90s was you'd start getting more and more

00:32:38 ◼   ► extensions.

00:32:39 ◼   ► And remember when you'd boot and you'd see every time an extension loaded, you'd see

00:32:41 ◼   ► the icon during the boot sequence?

00:32:43 ◼   ► And then you'd get a second line of them, a third line.

00:32:47 ◼   ► So it was like a bell curve.

00:32:49 ◼   ► You'd start getting –

00:32:50 ◼   ► And then a bomb.

00:32:51 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:32:52 ◼   ► Then it would just stop.

00:32:54 ◼   ► Like one of them would load and it would just stop and you'd be like, "Oh, that is shit."

00:33:01 ◼   ► And then you would--

00:33:03 ◼   ► I mean, everybody remembers.

00:33:04 ◼   ► You've got to remember.

00:33:05 ◼   ► How did you start up and not load extensions?

00:33:09 ◼   ► Shift key.

00:33:09 ◼   ► Of course.

00:33:10 ◼   ► Right?

00:33:10 ◼   ► You didn't even have to-- you probably

00:33:11 ◼   ► had to think more about it to say it.

00:33:12 ◼   ► Your hand probably already went to the shift key.

00:33:15 ◼   ► Right?

00:33:17 ◼   ► You just had muscle memory of how

00:33:18 ◼   ► to restart your Mac with the shift key down.

00:33:20 ◼   ► No, but then what would happen is you'd max out,

00:33:22 ◼   ► and you'd be so proud of how many extensions you have,

00:33:25 ◼   ► but your Mac would be unstable.

00:33:26 ◼   ► And then all of a sudden, the light would shine,

00:33:29 ◼   ► and you'd say, more extensions is not a good thing,

00:33:32 ◼   ► fewer extensions, and you should run it closer and closer,

00:33:35 ◼   ► as close as you can to the configuration it ships with.

00:33:38 ◼   ► Like a Mac out of the box from Apple

00:33:41 ◼   ► without any other extensions was always

00:33:43 ◼   ► an extremely stable device.

00:33:45 ◼   ► Now, I'm not saying that it never crashed,

00:33:47 ◼   ► I mean, but usually it was completely an application's fault.

00:33:49 ◼   ► The system itself was stable.

00:33:51 ◼   ► And so by the end of it, by the end of the classic era,

00:33:53 ◼   ► I had as few system extensions as possible.

00:33:56 ◼   ► Everyone was one that I felt like I could not do without.

00:33:59 ◼   ► And from a reputable vendor.

00:34:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, and you developed sets.

00:34:06 ◼   ► - Right, with Conflict Catcher.

00:34:08 ◼   ► - Because like, yeah, if I'm gonna do like publishing today

00:34:10 ◼   ► and then I'll boot with my publishing set

00:34:12 ◼   ► and if I'm gonna play like a game

00:34:14 ◼   ► and I need some sort of 3D thing.

00:34:16 ◼   ► - And a minimal and the other thing sometimes

00:34:18 ◼   ► if you wanted to play a game is you reboot

00:34:20 ◼   ► with a minimal set just to free up as much RAM as possible.

00:34:23 ◼   ► Keep it as light as possible.

00:34:26 ◼   ► RAM double.

00:34:27 ◼   ► Oh man.

00:34:28 ◼   ► I love the Mac.

00:34:30 ◼   ► I thought I love the classic Mac.

00:34:31 ◼   ► I think it still is overall a simpler conceptual design than Mac OS X.

00:34:37 ◼   ► I think Mac OS X is way too fiddly and exposes way too many goofy bits.

00:34:41 ◼   ► You know iOS clearly takes the cake and yeah.

00:34:45 ◼   ► I've become comfortable with the goofy bits at this point but there is a there is a I

00:34:49 ◼   ► I mean, the fact that you can just drag a system folder from Mac

00:34:54 ◼   ► to Mac and reboot it is pretty cool.

00:35:01 ◼   ► But there were definitely some parts of the classic Mac system

00:35:06 ◼   ► that you cannot defend as elegant design.

00:35:09 ◼   ► Like, for example, by the '90s, this is just an--

00:35:13 ◼   ► in the '80s, when it came out, it made perfect sense.

00:35:15 ◼   ► But in the '90s, by the--

00:35:18 ◼   ► should have been fixed with system 7 but I know why it wasn't because the legacy reasons that they

00:35:22 ◼   ► were carrying all this baggage but the fact that you had to allocate memory to the programs with

00:35:27 ◼   ► get info oh god oh my god for people who weren't classic mac os users what you would do is you'd

00:35:33 ◼   ► find any application and you'd go get info and in the info it would have a text field where it would

00:35:38 ◼   ► say how much ram was allocated and so developers when they ship their apps would buy you know

00:35:44 ◼   ► Typically, they would have a basic--

00:35:47 ◼   ► They would take it all.

00:35:48 ◼   ► Well, they would have--

00:35:49 ◼   ► they would ship it with a preconfigured--

00:35:51 ◼   ► when you first downloaded the app or installed it,

00:35:54 ◼   ► it would have a default that was defined by the developer.

00:35:57 ◼   ► So Photoshop, by default, would take a lot more RAM

00:36:00 ◼   ► than a very simple, lightweight app that just, I don't know,

00:36:06 ◼   ► capitalizes all letters for you or something like that.

00:36:09 ◼   ► But you could, as the user-- it was just a text field

00:36:12 ◼   ► in GetInfo--

00:36:13 ◼   ► you could give an app more or less as needed.

00:36:17 ◼   ► It does not seem like something that the computer

00:36:21 ◼   ► for the rest of us should force you to do.

00:36:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, really, yeah.

00:36:25 ◼   ► - All right, I can't defend that.

00:36:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I can remember,

00:36:28 ◼   ► not that Windows 95 was greater,

00:36:32 ◼   ► but at least some level of protected memory

00:36:35 ◼   ► was the one thing that I was like,

00:36:39 ◼   ► "Oh man, that would be nice to..."

00:36:41 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:36:42 ◼   ► I'm not switching, but I really want that.

00:36:43 ◼   ► - The very best Mac apps had programmers

00:36:45 ◼   ► who were clever enough to get around it.

00:36:47 ◼   ► So Photoshop at a certain point used to use a RAM disk,

00:36:50 ◼   ► its own RAM disk, and so you didn't have to,

00:36:54 ◼   ► you could open big files in Photoshop

00:36:57 ◼   ► and not have to really worry about having

00:36:59 ◼   ► given it enough RAM, it would do it on its own.

00:37:01 ◼   ► And BB Edit famously was able to operate with a very small,

00:37:06 ◼   ► it was like, the instructions for BB Edit

00:37:08 ◼   ► were do not screw with the default amount of RAM

00:37:11 ◼   ► It doesn't need much, and BBEdit had a brilliant scheme where you could open files,

00:37:18 ◼   ► as big as the text file is, is how much RAM BBEdit needs to display it,

00:37:24 ◼   ► but it could be way more than what the app had, because it would allocate the memory outside of that

00:37:29 ◼   ► allocation that you got from GetInfo. It managed its own memory separately, which was fantastic.

00:37:34 ◼   ► But neither here nor there.

00:37:37 ◼   ► I don't know. I would be frustrated if I were an iPad first user.

00:37:43 ◼   ► I guess it really depends on what you're, I mean, it just depends on what you're doing. I think

00:37:47 ◼   ► there's definitely, there are definitely things that I do that

00:37:51 ◼   ► would find frustrating, but I don't do them that often.

00:37:55 ◼   ► I think I'm somebody who probably could do most

00:37:59 ◼   ► of my work on an iPad. There's no way I could. Because it's mostly,

00:38:03 ◼   ► mostly I'm writing and then I'm taking it

00:38:06 ◼   ► and I use Ulysses which is one of those apps in setup.

00:38:08 ◼   ► - Setup.

00:38:09 ◼   ► - And that's in setup.

00:38:10 ◼   ► And I write it up and then I take it

00:38:14 ◼   ► and I put it someplace.

00:38:15 ◼   ► You know, I usually, I either take the file

00:38:18 ◼   ► and send it to somebody or I post it into

00:38:21 ◼   ► some sort of web-based CMS.

00:38:24 ◼   ► So all that stuff I can do. - How would you be

00:38:25 ◼   ► recording this podcast?

00:38:27 ◼   ► - Well, that's one thing.

00:38:30 ◼   ► - Right?

00:38:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:38:32 ◼   ► You can't, I mean, you can record podcasts on iOS devices.

00:38:37 ◼   ► I have not done it.

00:38:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, but it's jumping through a whole bunch of hoops.

00:38:40 ◼   ► Whereas there's like 10 different,

00:38:41 ◼   ► there's 10 different easy ways to record a podcast

00:38:45 ◼   ► on a Mac, at least, right?

00:38:47 ◼   ► You just open.

00:38:48 ◼   ► - I'm using two separate ones right now.

00:38:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I guess I'm just using one,

00:38:52 ◼   ► but that's, you're probably smarter than me.

00:38:55 ◼   ► - Well, it's because of that problem.

00:38:58 ◼   ► - But it's like, you can record,

00:38:59 ◼   ► you just have these other apps running and, you know,

00:39:02 ◼   ► or I use Call Recorder, which is an extension for Skype,

00:39:04 ◼   ► and there's no way that you can install an extension

00:39:08 ◼   ► for an app on iPad.

00:39:10 ◼   ► And there's just, I don't know,

00:39:13 ◼   ► it's just another example of the type of thing.

00:39:15 ◼   ► And I know that I've listened to a couple of podcasts

00:39:17 ◼   ► where there's like a web-based thing

00:39:20 ◼   ► that somebody's working on, I forget the name of it.

00:39:22 ◼   ► I heard Snell talking about it recently.

00:39:25 ◼   ► - Oh, to edit. - Yeah, but I think

00:39:27 ◼   ► you can record too.

00:39:29 ◼   ► It's like a way that a group of people can get on

00:39:31 ◼   ► and you just use, I think it's ridiculous

00:39:33 ◼   ► that the answer to getting people to record podcasts

00:39:36 ◼   ► on an iPad is to use a web app instead of a native app

00:39:39 ◼   ► because the gist of it is that all you need

00:39:41 ◼   ► is the microphone then, and the server side

00:39:43 ◼   ► does the recording, you know, like it records,

00:39:46 ◼   ► the web app records little bits, and as you go,

00:39:49 ◼   ► keep sending it to the server, so like if the connection

00:39:52 ◼   ► breaks or whatever, it's not, you know,

00:39:53 ◼   ► you don't lose the whole, you only lose

00:39:55 ◼   ► like a couple seconds at a time.

00:39:56 ◼   ► I think it's ridiculous that it's not a local thing,

00:40:00 ◼   ► that the solution is to do it all on the web.

00:40:03 ◼   ► Anyway, the gist of it is that in the midst

00:40:05 ◼   ► of all of this months-long Sturm und Drang over,

00:40:09 ◼   ► oh, I think Apple is abandoning the Mac.

00:40:12 ◼   ► I think they're trying to force us all to use iPads.

00:40:14 ◼   ► And in the midst of all this,

00:40:16 ◼   ► I've been more or less on the side of, I don't think so.

00:40:19 ◼   ► I really think the Mac is fine,

00:40:20 ◼   ► but I think lost in this is the opposite,

00:40:24 ◼   ► which is the iPad is nowhere near as powerful

00:40:27 ◼   ► as it should be at this point in time.

00:40:29 ◼   ► You should be able to record a podcast through native apps.

00:40:34 ◼   ► There should be a way to have two apps at a time

00:40:37 ◼   ► using the microphone so that one could be Skype

00:40:40 ◼   ► sending the communication over the internet

00:40:42 ◼   ► and the other one can be a call recorder type thing.

00:40:45 ◼   ► There's no reason you shouldn't be able to do that.

00:40:48 ◼   ► I don't know, I'd be frustrated.

00:40:53 ◼   ► I think that the--

00:40:54 ◼   ► - Is it, I mean, is it still just the thing

00:40:56 ◼   ► of like walking and chewing gum at the same time?

00:40:58 ◼   ► - Maybe.

00:41:00 ◼   ► - Do we keep coming back to that one in particular?

00:41:03 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:41:04 ◼   ► I don't know, maybe.

00:41:06 ◼   ► I think the other thing too,

00:41:07 ◼   ► I've been thinking about this a lot lately too,

00:41:08 ◼   ► is where does this idea that the iPad is,

00:41:11 ◼   ► that Apple's gonna push the, sweep the Mac aside

00:41:15 ◼   ► in favor of the iPad?

00:41:16 ◼   ► I think a large part comes down to what Tim Cook said

00:41:21 ◼   ► when they debuted the iPad Pro,

00:41:25 ◼   ► where Tim Cook said, I don't have it in front of me,

00:41:28 ◼   ► but it's something to the effect of--

00:41:31 ◼   ► - I mean, he said he doesn't use a Mac.

00:41:32 ◼   ► - No, he never said that.

00:41:33 ◼   ► He's never said that.

00:41:34 ◼   ► He has said that he-- - Okay.

00:41:36 ◼   ► - I think he said that he's traveled only with an iPad.

00:41:38 ◼   ► But like when he went to,

00:41:42 ◼   ► or not when he went to,

00:41:44 ◼   ► when he invited ABC News into his office in Cupertino

00:41:48 ◼   ► to do an interview about the FBI San Bernardino case,

00:41:52 ◼   ► there's a big iMac on his desk.

00:41:54 ◼   ► There's a 5K iMac on his desk.

00:41:56 ◼   ► So, I mean, he's got one on his desk.

00:41:57 ◼   ► If he didn't use it, I can't imagine why he'd have it on his desk.

00:42:02 ◼   ► I find it very hard to believe that Tim Cook does not use a Mac.

00:42:05 ◼   ► I would be shocked if he actually said that.

00:42:08 ◼   ► He has said that he travels only with an iPad.

00:42:10 ◼   ► He has said that he thinks there's many people, many users who

00:42:12 ◼   ► can get by with only an iPad.

00:42:14 ◼   ► But I think it was his words that this is the best example of our vision

00:42:21 ◼   ► for the future of personal computing.

00:42:24 ◼   ► It said something to the effect of that.

00:42:26 ◼   ► And I think that it was--

00:42:29 ◼   ► if you take it literally, it sort of sounds like, yeah,

00:42:31 ◼   ► he's saying that this is going to be the future,

00:42:34 ◼   ► and everything else, which would include the Mac,

00:42:36 ◼   ► is by the way said.

00:42:38 ◼   ► I think he was just selling the iPad Pro.

00:42:40 ◼   ► I don't really think he meant it that way.

00:42:43 ◼   ► I think that the better--

00:42:47 ◼   ► I mean, the problem is that you have that statement.

00:42:50 ◼   ► You have some-- at least, I think

00:42:51 ◼   ► there's at least a couple of statements

00:42:52 ◼   ► that he's made about stuff like that.

00:42:54 ◼   ► And then you have a year like 2016 where they don't really update the Mac very much.

00:43:00 ◼   ► And they have the desktop ones are just sitting there. So the convergence of those two things

00:43:07 ◼   ► makes people think. Which is an example.

00:43:10 ◼   ► Yeah, not always do.

00:43:11 ◼   ► Right. They haven't updated the iPad in over a year either. Right?

00:43:17 ◼   ► Well, didn't the 12th, the Pro, the smaller Pro came out in April, right?

00:43:24 ◼   ► No, yeah, yeah, last April. So it'll be, if they have, or March, I guess, it'll be a year.

00:43:30 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, they didn't do it in the fall, which they did.

00:43:33 ◼   ► And yeah, like, and so the 12-inch or 13-inch iPad Pro hasn't been updated now in over a year.

00:43:38 ◼   ► It came out alongside the iPhone last year, or at least it was debuted alongside the iPhone and came

00:43:44 ◼   ► out in October or whatever. But that's been unchanged for over a year. So I don't think

00:43:49 ◼   ► I think that lack of updates to hardware should not are not necessarily indicative of their commitment

00:43:55 ◼   ► to the platform. I think that the annual update to the OS is a better sign of their commitment

00:44:01 ◼   ► to the platform. I don't know what the explanation is but I'd be frustrated.

00:44:10 ◼   ► um hey with the Ulysses was my description of it as sort of like an IDE for writing is that

00:44:16 ◼   ► is that a good description like a yeah yeah yeah I mean it's uh to me it I mean I used to write

00:44:23 ◼   ► in bbedit all the time um and I mostly write in markdown and so uh but I wanted something

00:44:29 ◼   ► that was better at arranging the files um so Ulysses is like that um it gives you you know

00:44:36 ◼   ► You can create folders and projects and stuff like that.

00:44:40 ◼   ► It's somewhere in between BB Edit and Scrivener.

00:44:46 ◼   ► It's not as fancy as Scrivener.

00:44:49 ◼   ► It doesn't have things for writing scripts and things

00:44:51 ◼   ► like that.

00:44:52 ◼   ► You can't put pictures in and scrapbook stuff

00:44:58 ◼   ► when you're building characters and things to write books.

00:45:00 ◼   ► If you're writing a full book, you probably

00:45:02 ◼   ► want to use Scrivener.

00:45:03 ◼   ► you could write a full book in Ulysses too. And it has an iPad version and they sync, right?

00:45:09 ◼   ► Yeah. Yep. Yep. And that's the nice thing. I mean, so it works on the iPhone, iPad, and on the Mac.

00:45:15 ◼   ► It's always been one of those apps that sort of appeals to me, but never pushes me over the edge.

00:45:21 ◼   ► It took me a while. It really took me a while to get used to it. I had been using BB Edit for

00:45:25 ◼   ► years and I couldn't get used to it. But then finally, I think it was like one of the recent

00:45:33 ◼   ► and update. So I've been using it for two years, a year and a half, something like that.

00:45:42 ◼   ► And very happy with it. I still use BBEdit for certain things.

00:45:46 ◼   ► And you know, I know Apple has done, Apple has some of their apps that work great cross

00:45:50 ◼   ► platform. I think that the, I have complaints about the Mac version of photos being not

00:45:55 ◼   ► Mac like enough and sort of, it just feels like an app written by iOS programmers, not

00:46:01 ◼   ► Mac programmers.

00:46:03 ◼   ► But in terms of actually syncing and having photos

00:46:05 ◼   ► that I take on my iPhone just magically appear on my Mac

00:46:09 ◼   ► and changes, I edit, I straighten, you know.

00:46:13 ◼   ► One of the things, I mean, I take thousands of photos a year

00:46:15 ◼   ► and I'm like, not serious, but like semi-serious.

00:46:19 ◼   ► I own like a $4,000 Canon SLR with counting the lenses.

00:46:24 ◼   ► I cannot take a straight picture.

00:46:27 ◼   ► I mean, 20 years into an avid amateur photography

00:46:31 ◼   ► hobby. Almost every photo I take, the horizon is crooked. So like straightening images is just,

00:46:38 ◼   ► I do it all the time. And I love that you straighten it on. It doesn't matter which device

00:46:41 ◼   ► you straighten it on. There it is. It's synced up to your iCloud. I love it. And the iWorks Suite,

00:46:47 ◼   ► now that they've, you know, they had hit the reset button, you know, for years there was like

00:46:51 ◼   ► the iOS versions which had a certain file format and the Mac versions which had file formats that

00:46:57 ◼   ► couldn't round trip because it used features.

00:46:59 ◼   ► And they hit the reset button.

00:47:01 ◼   ► And the only way to do it is to sort of set the Mac back.

00:47:04 ◼   ► But they've gotten them to the point

00:47:06 ◼   ► now where most of what the Mac apps could always do,

00:47:09 ◼   ► they can do everywhere now.

00:47:11 ◼   ► So the iWorks apps are a good example.

00:47:13 ◼   ► But Ulysses just shows that third party developers,

00:47:15 ◼   ► and I think in a lot of ways, are

00:47:18 ◼   ► doing a better job of making the iPad appear

00:47:21 ◼   ► to the Mac a peer, not appear.

00:47:26 ◼   ► Yes, yeah, right. A sibling, a full-fledged sibling to the man than Apollos, you know,

00:47:31 ◼   ► with iBooks Author as exhibit A. Yeah. It's a fairly, I mean, it's a relatively simple

00:47:40 ◼   ► app. I'm not trying to, that came out wrong. I mean, that's one of the things I like about it.

00:47:46 ◼   ► There aren't like a huge number of bells and whistles and it lets you get into the writing,

00:47:51 ◼   ► which is what you want to do, but it gives me enough flexibility in terms of arranging things

00:47:55 ◼   ► that it's got exactly what I want.

00:47:59 ◼   ► So it doesn't have to do anything super freaky

00:48:05 ◼   ► like stuff that's not allowed on iOS.

00:48:11 ◼   ► - You know who else is doing an amazing job

00:48:14 ◼   ► on treating the iPad as a first class platform

00:48:19 ◼   ► for creative people is OmniGroup.

00:48:22 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:48:24 ◼   ► Again, I think better than Apple.

00:48:26 ◼   ► I really do.

00:48:28 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah.

00:48:29 ◼   ► Well, I think, yeah, I mean, they're like,

00:48:31 ◼   ► they're at the forefront, and they made that decision.

00:48:34 ◼   ► And I mean, I'm assuming that it's working out

00:48:39 ◼   ► well enough for them.

00:48:40 ◼   ► I hope so.

00:48:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, my understanding is, yeah.

00:48:43 ◼   ► - I've always loved their apps.

00:48:44 ◼   ► - But they really, and I think that they did it in a way

00:48:48 ◼   ► where the Mac versions of their apps never suffered.

00:48:50 ◼   ► Like, the Mac versions of Omni apps never had

00:48:53 ◼   ► like an 18 month period where they were like one step forward, two steps back to get iOS

00:49:00 ◼   ► compatibility.

00:49:01 ◼   ► So, really, I mean, I would hold them up as a better example than Apple of how to get

00:49:06 ◼   ► iPad versions and Mac versions that just work together.

00:49:13 ◼   ► And did you see that Ken Case, founder, co-founder of the Ami group, CEO, he had his annual,

00:49:20 ◼   ► Here's what 2016 was for us,

00:49:24 ◼   ► and here's what we're looking at in 2017.

00:49:26 ◼   ► Did you see that post?

00:49:27 ◼   ► I'll put it in the show notes.

00:49:32 ◼   ► I swear to God, I'm typing it in right now.

00:49:33 ◼   ► Here we go.

00:49:34 ◼   ► I won't go into details on the app by app basis,

00:49:40 ◼   ► but one of the things that was fascinating about it

00:49:42 ◼   ► is that they have hired Sal Soyahan,

00:49:48 ◼   ► who was formerly a longtime Apple evangelist

00:49:51 ◼   ► for automation technologies, I believe,

00:49:54 ◼   ► was what his group was called,

00:49:56 ◼   ► which was AppleScript and Automator and stuff in that area.

00:50:01 ◼   ► And Sal left Apple, was it early December?

00:50:10 ◼   ► Somewhere around there.

00:50:11 ◼   ► And seemingly, the details are not public,

00:50:17 ◼   ► but the gist of it, and Sal had a piece that he wrote

00:50:20 ◼   ► for Mac Stories, suggesting that Apple seems to think

00:50:25 ◼   ► that extensions are the future of automation,

00:50:28 ◼   ► meaning the little sharing sheet things that you have now

00:50:32 ◼   ► where you can, like if you have the,

00:50:34 ◼   ► I use a bookmarking service called Pinboard,

00:50:39 ◼   ► and I have an app called Pinner on my iPhone,

00:50:41 ◼   ► and when I have a URL and go to share it,

00:50:43 ◼   ► I get a little extension up there that says add to Pinboard,

00:50:46 ◼   ► and I can just tap that and it goes.

00:50:49 ◼   ► That that sort of thing is the future of automation

00:50:51 ◼   ► and it's not like scripting or something like that.

00:50:54 ◼   ► Which extensions are great,

00:50:56 ◼   ► but it's a totally separate thing.

00:50:58 ◼   ► It's like saying, it really is like saying

00:51:00 ◼   ► the future of citrus is apples.

00:51:02 ◼   ► It's like, that's not citrus.

00:51:04 ◼   ► You know what I mean, apples are great,

00:51:06 ◼   ► but we need oranges and lemons and limes.

00:51:08 ◼   ► I mean, you can't, what are you gonna do

00:51:11 ◼   ► if you make a martini?

00:51:12 ◼   ► You can't put a goddamn apple peel in it.

00:51:15 ◼   ► You need a lemon peel.

00:51:17 ◼   ► I mean, that's a terrible analogy because,

00:51:19 ◼   ► but anyway.

00:51:20 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:51:21 ◼   ► Anyway, Ken Case revealed in his year in review thing

00:51:26 ◼   ► that the Omni Group has been consulting with Sal

00:51:29 ◼   ► since he left Apple, like, and they're smart.

00:51:32 ◼   ► It's just one of those ways where the Omni Group

00:51:34 ◼   ► is so smart, where it's like Sal says,

00:51:36 ◼   ► well, after 20 years, I'm leaving Apple,

00:51:38 ◼   ► and the Omni Group was like, quick, let's get 'em.

00:51:40 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:51:41 ◼   ► - Right, yeah, well.

00:51:43 ◼   ► - Well, you're right.

00:51:44 ◼   ► I mean, there's gotta be a bunch of other companies like,

00:51:46 ◼   ► "Oh, shit, we should get in line."

00:51:49 ◼   ► - I mean, now that you mentioned that, I remember that,

00:51:51 ◼   ► I remember hearing about that at any rate.

00:51:53 ◼   ► And I don't think, I mean, they haven't really

00:51:56 ◼   ► like, shown their hand yet, right?

00:51:58 ◼   ► - But they have a, they've revealed a demo.

00:51:59 ◼   ► Anyway, they've got engineers working on,

00:52:01 ◼   ► or at least an engineer working on a cross-platform

00:52:07 ◼   ► scripting system for the OmniGroup apps.

00:52:11 ◼   ► But it's, now how is that gonna work?

00:52:16 ◼   ► You know, there's like on the Mac,

00:52:18 ◼   ► there's the Apple script is there,

00:52:20 ◼   ► it's part of the system.

00:52:21 ◼   ► I mean, it's really the OSA,

00:52:22 ◼   ► but it's Apple events are part of the system.

00:52:24 ◼   ► And there's a standard way for developers

00:52:26 ◼   ► to add scripting support to their apps.

00:52:30 ◼   ► And that the same way that, you know,

00:52:32 ◼   ► the same things that you do as a developer

00:52:34 ◼   ► to make your app scriptable by Apple script,

00:52:36 ◼   ► or JavaScript, which is now a first class

00:52:39 ◼   ► officially supported language for scripting apps on Mac.

00:52:41 ◼   ► Also, it's along the lines of doing this,

00:52:44 ◼   ► it's the same work that you have to do

00:52:45 ◼   ► to get automator support for your app,

00:52:47 ◼   ► so you can make your app part of an automator process.

00:52:52 ◼   ► You can't do it, there's no Apple events on iOS,

00:52:57 ◼   ► so if, and there's no real alternative to it,

00:52:59 ◼   ► so the Omni group is doing their own thing.

00:53:02 ◼   ► Forget what they're calling it,

00:53:04 ◼   ► but it's based on JavaScript,

00:53:06 ◼   ► because part of the reason that it's tricky for developers

00:53:10 ◼   ► to do something like this is that the rules for the App

00:53:13 ◼   ► Store on iOS are that you can't add an interpreter to your app.

00:53:18 ◼   ► In other words, you can't have an app that makes apps,

00:53:21 ◼   ► even if it runs within itself.

00:53:23 ◼   ► But what you can do is use the system version of JavaScript

00:53:27 ◼   ► that comes with WebKit.

00:53:28 ◼   ► And so you can use JavaScript, the JavaScript

00:53:31 ◼   ► that comes with the system.

00:53:33 ◼   ► And presumably, that's what Apple or what Omni's doing,

00:53:35 ◼   ► because they're saying that their scripting technology

00:53:39 ◼   ► is based on JavaScript.

00:53:42 ◼   ► But the gist of it is, and there's an example script

00:53:44 ◼   ► that they show an animation of that I guess Sal wrote,

00:53:47 ◼   ► where you make a rectangle and then you make a circle

00:53:51 ◼   ► out of the rectangle and you color it green

00:53:52 ◼   ► and then position it at a certain point.

00:53:54 ◼   ► It's, he's scripting their drawing app, OmniGraffle,

00:53:59 ◼   ► and that these same scripts are gonna be cross-platform

00:54:01 ◼   ► Mac and iOS, which is really, we haven't had that.

00:54:04 ◼   ► It's great, but to me, I read this,

00:54:07 ◼   ► and I think this is great, and it makes,

00:54:10 ◼   ► it helps establish Omni as the leading indie Apple developer,

00:54:14 ◼   ► Apple platform developer today,

00:54:16 ◼   ► but this is the sort of thing that should be coming

00:54:18 ◼   ► from Apple, not from a third-party developer.

00:54:20 ◼   ► It should be the same thing for all apps.

00:54:23 ◼   ► I mean, that's one of the reasons AppleScript,

00:54:24 ◼   ► and I say what you want about the language,

00:54:25 ◼   ► but one of the reasons it's a great technology

00:54:27 ◼   ► was before AppleScript, in the early days of the Mac,

00:54:31 ◼   ► There were any app that wanted to have like an automation.

00:54:35 ◼   ► I mean, we used to call them macros.

00:54:36 ◼   ► Nobody uses the word macro anymore,

00:54:37 ◼   ► but it's the same idea, right?

00:54:40 ◼   ► But any app that had macros or something like that

00:54:43 ◼   ► had their own thing.

00:54:45 ◼   ► It was all, you know.

00:54:46 ◼   ► - That's how I got into,

00:54:49 ◼   ► that's how I like, I started my career in IT.

00:54:53 ◼   ► Was basically doing macros.

00:54:56 ◼   ► So I came to work in a financial department

00:54:59 ◼   ► and they had all these spreadsheets

00:55:00 ◼   ► they were doing all this stuff manually. And so I started out just by taking Excel and doing

00:55:08 ◼   ► having an arrow over, arrow through cells, instead of really learning. Before I learned how to do any

00:55:15 ◼   ► kind of programming, it was just like down one cell, down one cell, down one cell, over, over,

00:55:21 ◼   ► over, copy, that kind of thing. Just very deliberately telling it exactly what I would do

00:55:27 ◼   ► by hand, and then slowly working into learning Visual Basic for applications.

00:55:35 ◼   ► That's my nightmare background.

00:55:39 ◼   ► Well, I forget the name of it. There was a competitor for years with bbedit. I think

00:55:46 ◼   ► it was called Alpha. There was a programming text editor for the Mac, and it used TCL,

00:55:52 ◼   ► TCL as a scripting language, which was, it wasn't like its own invention of the language,

00:55:57 ◼   ► but what they did, it was an open source scripting language that I think has largely fallen out

00:56:01 ◼   ► of favor in recent decades.

00:56:03 ◼   ► But you know, it's a sort of scripting language where anybody could look at it and sort of

00:56:07 ◼   ► get the gist of, oh yeah, you know, I mean, it wasn't like a weird language.

00:56:10 ◼   ► It was like, oh yeah, I kind of see what's going on here.

00:56:14 ◼   ► But they embedded the interpreter in their app and no other Mac app used TCL.

00:56:17 ◼   ► So anything you did that you were scripting it was only within the text editor itself.

00:56:21 ◼   ► there was no way to do something with text

00:56:24 ◼   ► and then send it to Excel or whatever.

00:56:27 ◼   ► Apple, having it as a system level technology

00:56:30 ◼   ► is what made that possible.

00:56:32 ◼   ► And the fact that iOS doesn't have it

00:56:35 ◼   ► and the fact that it doesn't,

00:56:36 ◼   ► you know, reading between the lines of what Sal

00:56:39 ◼   ► has said publicly since he left

00:56:42 ◼   ► doesn't seem like it's in the plans either.

00:56:44 ◼   ► So I think that's kind of worrisome.

00:56:45 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:56:47 ◼   ► - And it would, again, another sign

00:56:49 ◼   ► that it would make me angry if I were an iOS user.

00:56:51 ◼   ► What?

00:56:54 ◼   ► All right, let's take a break and tell you

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00:57:06 ◼   ► Click a template, find the basic template

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00:57:09 ◼   ► And they have things to pick from.

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00:57:34 ◼   ► They have a slew of professionally designed

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00:57:37 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know how many, but so many.

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00:57:41 ◼   ► that, like, oh, if I go to Squarespace,

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00:59:37 ◼   ► where you should go build your next website.

00:59:38 ◼   ► You watch the Super Bowl? No. I wish I hadn't. I know. I quipped that I was the real winner

00:59:52 ◼   ► because I did not watch the Super Bowl. I wish I hadn't. Wow. As somebody who put a little scratch

00:59:56 ◼   ► on the Atlanta Falcons. That's heartbreaking. Yeah, no, it's just, it's really two teams that

01:00:04 ◼   ► I just don't, I didn't care about at all. So, um, I'm, I just said, I thought I can watch the,

01:00:10 ◼   ► you know, I can watch the commercials later. I wrote a little bit. Well, here's something,

01:00:16 ◼   ► here's a story that's came out. It, they're not new, but two stories came out in the last two

01:00:22 ◼   ► days. There's a fast company story by, let me get his name, uh, Mark Sullivan. It came out yesterday

01:00:31 ◼   ► headline, "Why Apple's 10th Anniversary iPhone Will Likely Cost More Than $1,000."

01:00:36 ◼   ► And the gist of it is that according to this guy who says he has

01:00:40 ◼   ► he has a source with knowledge of Apple's plans. That's how he attributes it.

01:00:43 ◼   ► Doesn't say where the source is from. Is it from Apple? Is it from the supply chain?

01:00:47 ◼   ► Is it

01:00:48 ◼   ► a bartender at BJ's in Cupertino?

01:00:51 ◼   ► I don't know. But this guy has a source and he says that what Apple is going to do

01:00:55 ◼   ► next year

01:00:56 ◼   ► is come out with the iPhone 7S

01:01:00 ◼   ► and the iPhone 7S Plus, which would be exactly in line with the past couple of years where

01:01:06 ◼   ► they just take the new number version and then add an S. I mean, it doesn't say it's

01:01:12 ◼   ► going to be called the S, but they're going to look exactly like the 7 and 7 Plus. Not

01:01:17 ◼   ► like, sort of like it, like the way that the 7 sort of looks like the iPhone 6 and 6S.

01:01:23 ◼   ► But that they are also going to introduce a new, even though they're going to come out

01:01:27 ◼   ► with a 7S and 7S Plus with the new stuff. They're also going to come out with an all-new

01:01:32 ◼   ► industrial design. That's and it'll have an OLED display and it's going to go edge-to-edge

01:01:39 ◼   ► and it's going to be 5.8 inches instead of 5 and it's going to cost more. So even though

01:01:44 ◼   ► they're going to introduce 7S and 7S Plus, instead of having them debut at the top of

01:01:50 ◼   ► the line, there's going to be this new iPhone that's going to debut at the top of the line

01:01:54 ◼   ► at an even higher price starting at more than $1,000.

01:01:57 ◼   ► Now, the $1,000 thing isn't ridiculous

01:02:01 ◼   ► 'cause if you buy the high-end iPhone 7 Plus,

01:02:05 ◼   ► it is like $969.

01:02:07 ◼   ► So it's already, they've already,

01:02:08 ◼   ► the top of the line most expensive iPhone

01:02:11 ◼   ► is already roughly $1,000.

01:02:14 ◼   ► So it's not preposterous that the starting point

01:02:18 ◼   ► of a new high-end one would be $1,000.

01:02:22 ◼   ► So this is a five point, and this is the eight.

01:02:25 ◼   ► - Well, they're saying they don't know the name,

01:02:26 ◼   ► and he even says--

01:02:29 ◼   ► - Which is what we've maybe heard of as the pro before.

01:02:32 ◼   ► - Right, I think iPhone Pro, if they did this,

01:02:35 ◼   ► was actually the more likely name, in my opinion,

01:02:37 ◼   ► but we can get to that, 'cause he also says,

01:02:39 ◼   ► the new 5.8-inch phone will probably be called

01:02:42 ◼   ► the iPhone 8, but this is Mark Sullivan writing,

01:02:45 ◼   ► but some believe Apple will call it the,

01:02:48 ◼   ► parentheses, far cooler sounding,

01:02:49 ◼   ► end parentheses, iPhone X.

01:02:52 ◼   ► I don't iPhone X I can I think that they I would hope that they learn their lesson by calling Mac OS 10 Mac

01:02:58 ◼   ► Oh spelling it with an X

01:03:00 ◼   ► Because for years, I think that the majority of people caught pronounced it I Mac OS X

01:03:07 ◼   ► In my yeah, I would do that by mistake occasionally

01:03:11 ◼   ► And I knew I knew what it was called. What what was the other one that they used to?

01:03:18 ◼   ► Oh, the iTouch. The calling the calling the iPod Touch the iTouch, right?

01:03:23 ◼   ► There's way more people who call it the iTouch than than iPod Touch. I think

01:03:28 ◼   ► calling it iPhone capital X, I mean who knows? I guess if they do that they

01:03:32 ◼   ► should actually pronounce it iPhone X? If they're expecting people to pronounce it

01:03:37 ◼   ► iPhone X, then... No, that's a big mistake. I was, when I read that, I was

01:03:42 ◼   ► thinking it's iPhone X not 10 if they did call it iPhone X I but the thing is

01:03:49 ◼   ► like where do you go there because you can't add an it my phone I can't add an

01:03:52 ◼   ► S because it would sound like you're saying excess yeah yeah you can't put

01:04:00 ◼   ► the s in front of it because then it would be like iPhone sex right I anyway

01:04:07 ◼   ► the second story is next I found FX to FX yeah just just go back to 1991 and

01:04:20 ◼   ► call it the iPhone 2 FX the iPhone the iPhone perform today came out KGI's Ming

01:04:27 ◼   ► Qi Kuo the analyst who has the best sources in this opponent if he reports

01:04:34 ◼   ► from China, I think, or at least from Asia.

01:04:36 ◼   ► And clearly, his sources have always

01:04:38 ◼   ► been in the supply chain.

01:04:39 ◼   ► The supply chain that fills his stuff.

01:04:41 ◼   ► He's been saying this for a while.

01:04:43 ◼   ► This isn't new, but he's--

01:04:45 ◼   ► this idea that they're going to do new ones of the exact same

01:04:49 ◼   ► form factor as the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus,

01:04:52 ◼   ► and this new thing with 5.8-inch diagonal OLED display that

01:04:59 ◼   ► might curve at the edges and is more of a chinless, foreheadless

01:05:03 ◼   ► edge-to-edge top-to-bottom design with a touch home button that's actually embedded in the screen

01:05:09 ◼   ► and is virtual, not really a button, etc. These aren't new rumors, but he reiterated this is

01:05:14 ◼   ► pretty much… I don't think anything in this report contradicts anything in Mark Sullivan's report,

01:05:22 ◼   ► so I don't know if they have the same sources or similar ones, but there's nothing really

01:05:26 ◼   ► conflicting. So it is… there's a little bit of a "where there's smoke, there's fire" aspect to this.

01:05:32 ◼   ► I think so. Sullivan source might be maybe I think that that's a very high possibility. I think you

01:05:43 ◼   ► would actually bet on that. But well has a pretty good track record. Yeah, I mean, you know, right.

01:05:51 ◼   ► Although I although I think I don't know, maybe it's possible. But usually these I mean, the one

01:05:56 ◼   ► of the reasons why they do these reports is to advertise for their firm. So it seems unlikely

01:06:01 ◼   ► likely that he would speak off the record like that.

01:06:06 ◼   ► - Well, but it's telling though that he came out

01:06:08 ◼   ► with the report the next day, I don't know.

01:06:10 ◼   ► You know what, here's a pet peeve.

01:06:13 ◼   ► I've said this before publicly, I hate this.

01:06:15 ◼   ► One of the ways that I wish, if I had a magic wand

01:06:19 ◼   ► that I would wave it, it would be that I hate

01:06:21 ◼   ► when these sites, when they report on rumors

01:06:24 ◼   ► of upcoming iPhones, inevitably,

01:06:26 ◼   ► this report here is from 9to5Mac to say,

01:06:29 ◼   ► this is about the KGI report.

01:06:33 ◼   ► They always illustrate the story

01:06:35 ◼   ► with a user-submitted mock-up

01:06:38 ◼   ► of what a future iPhone might look like,

01:06:41 ◼   ► which isn't based on, it's not like the source of,

01:06:45 ◼   ► the only way it makes sense to conclude an illustration

01:06:48 ◼   ► is if you have a source who says they've seen it

01:06:51 ◼   ► and then you make one that looks like

01:06:53 ◼   ► what the source is saying.

01:06:54 ◼   ► - Looks like what they, yeah. - Whereas they always

01:06:55 ◼   ► illustrate 'em with these things that people

01:06:58 ◼   ► just make out of their imagination.

01:07:00 ◼   ► Like, it's not, it bothers me profusely,

01:07:04 ◼   ► because I know as a critical reader of the news,

01:07:07 ◼   ► I know what this illustration is.

01:07:08 ◼   ► I know to just ignore it.

01:07:10 ◼   ► But I can't help it, I know that most people,

01:07:12 ◼   ► if they glance at this, are thinking,

01:07:14 ◼   ► this is an illustration of the thing

01:07:16 ◼   ► that they're talking about.

01:07:17 ◼   ► - So that's what it's gonna look like, yeah.

01:07:19 ◼   ► - Like imagine if--

01:07:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I've had conversations with people,

01:07:22 ◼   ► you know, like casual people,

01:07:23 ◼   ► like people you meet someplace and, you know,

01:07:25 ◼   ► like, oh, I saw a picture of it the other day.

01:07:26 ◼   ► I was like, that's not--

01:07:27 ◼   ► Like imagine if you had a news story that said, "Killer on the Loose," you know,

01:07:34 ◼   ► "Serial Killer is on the Loose in town," and you include an illustration of a man,

01:07:39 ◼   ► but the illustration of the man in the story has nothing to do with the killer on the loose.

01:07:43 ◼   ► You just need—right?

01:07:44 ◼   ► It's—

01:07:45 ◼   ► It's somebody's ideal version of a killer.

01:07:49 ◼   ► Right.

01:07:50 ◼   ► It's just a bald guy with a big, bushy beard.

01:07:54 ◼   ► He's got machetes for hands.

01:07:56 ◼   ► Do you know what I mean? It's like whenever they used to talk about the Unabomber back

01:08:00 ◼   ► before they caught him, and they'd always have this story where there was, you know,

01:08:04 ◼   ► they'd always have this illustration of a guy with a—they have a hoodie on? He had

01:08:08 ◼   ► a hoodie and sunglasses.

01:08:09 ◼   ► Yeah, with glasses, right?

01:08:11 ◼   ► Right. But it was based on—there was a witness one time who saw a guy that, you know, there

01:08:18 ◼   ► was some kind of connection where law enforcement legitimately thought they had a witness who

01:08:22 ◼   ► saw him mailing a package one time, and that it was a police sketch from this witness,

01:08:28 ◼   ► and they would use the same drawing over and over again. It wasn't like they just randomly

01:08:31 ◼   ► drew a guy, which is what these stupid illustrations of future edge-to-edge iPhones are. Anyway,

01:08:41 ◼   ► I have problems with this. I don't disbelieve that this is Apple's plan, and there's

01:08:48 ◼   ► enough smoke now that I can't help but think this might be it, that they're going to do

01:08:53 ◼   ► an iPhone 7S and 7S Plus. And instead of introducing them at the top of the line, they're not going

01:08:59 ◼   ► to push them down the line either. I think they'll keep the prices the same and instead

01:09:03 ◼   ► will introduce a new heretofore never seen tier above this. That's a very Apple-like

01:09:10 ◼   ► thing to do, whereas the rest of the industry races to lower and lower prices as "smartphones"

01:09:16 ◼   ► more and more commodities, and the average selling

01:09:18 ◼   ► price of a smartphone in general continues to drop,

01:09:21 ◼   ► it's a very Apple-like thing to do to say,

01:09:24 ◼   ► we're in such a position of prominence.

01:09:27 ◼   ► We're so clearly the preeminent smartphone phone maker

01:09:31 ◼   ► that we're going to move it up.

01:09:33 ◼   ► I could see that.

01:09:34 ◼   ► But I have some problems with this plan,

01:09:36 ◼   ► though, because everybody also seems

01:09:37 ◼   ► to be reporting the same things, that this new device,

01:09:41 ◼   ► the hot stuff is going to be, they're going to have trouble making them in quantity. That

01:09:49 ◼   ► it's, you know, that it's going to be supply-concerned. New iPhones have always been.

01:09:53 ◼   ► Yeah, because they can't get the screens.

01:09:55 ◼   ► Yeah, they can't get the screens and the touch sensors more difficult. All of these reports

01:10:01 ◼   ► have been very consistent. Now, I don't know how many of them come from this one source,

01:10:05 ◼   ► know the KGI's Ming-Chi Kuo, maybe he's the only one and it's bullshit but they

01:10:11 ◼   ► keep saying over again the other thing that's reiterated is that they're going

01:10:14 ◼   ► to it's going to be an OLED on the front that goes edge to edge it's gonna have a

01:10:18 ◼   ► touch sensor you know touch ID and a home button that is somehow embedded in

01:10:23 ◼   ► the screen. Apple has had patents I mean again I try to stay away from patents in

01:10:30 ◼   ► terms of the connection of well if Apple file a patent they must be using it no

01:10:35 ◼   ► They file patents for anything patentable, not just anything they use.

01:10:38 ◼   ► But there is a patent that Apple has filed somewhere where it's how to put a camera behind

01:10:42 ◼   ► a display, which would obviously be necessary if the screen goes edge to edge because you

01:10:47 ◼   ► can't get rid of the selfie camera.

01:10:48 ◼   ► I mean, that would be like the one thing Apple could do that would actually keep people from

01:10:52 ◼   ► buying a new phone.

01:10:54 ◼   ► Get rid of the headphone jack, like all these tech reports like, "Oh, you get rid of the

01:10:56 ◼   ► headphone jack.

01:10:57 ◼   ► No one's going to buy this thing.

01:10:58 ◼   ► Everybody's going to wait a year to see if this takes off."

01:11:00 ◼   ► No, it's like record-breaking sales for the iPhone without the headphone jack.

01:11:03 ◼   ► took away the selfie camera, people wouldn't buy it because people actually...

01:11:08 ◼   ► Yeah, well, you couldn't FaceTime. You couldn't... There's so many... Apart from just being able to

01:11:12 ◼   ► take a picture of yourself, there's other stuff. We know you love the selfie camera, but this edge

01:11:16 ◼   ► to edge design is so beautiful, we just threw it away. Also, there's no...

01:11:20 ◼   ► Johnny took away your... Also, there's no speaker. So you...

01:11:24 ◼   ► There's no earpiece for holding the phone up here, so you had...

01:11:30 ◼   ► I don't know, like the whole, so like they're also speculating that it's not gonna, it might not have buttons like on the sides either

01:11:35 ◼   ► It's like how do you reboot that phone? It's gotta have one, right? It has to have at least one

01:11:41 ◼   ► There's no, like at least one physical button. There's no way to, I don't know. Uh, yeah, shake it

01:11:47 ◼   ► The iPhone shake

01:11:58 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:12:00 ◼   ► I should start writing fake rumors again.

01:12:07 ◼   ► - It would be funny if they made it like an old Mac

01:12:10 ◼   ► where it was sort of like the little hole

01:12:12 ◼   ► for the SIM card tray where you'd have to poke a paperclip.

01:12:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, right, right.

01:12:16 ◼   ► I wore it.

01:12:17 ◼   ► That was like, Hank found that action.

01:12:20 ◼   ► So I have two classic Macs up in my office

01:12:23 ◼   ► and he hasn't played with them in a long time,

01:12:26 ◼   ► But when he was younger, he'd come up and I'd fish out my old floppy disks.

01:12:31 ◼   ► And I mean, I really think the thing that he liked-- he liked loading up some

01:12:34 ◼   ► of the games and playing with them.

01:12:35 ◼   ► But I think one of the things he liked the most was just force ejecting a floppy disk.

01:12:39 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

01:12:42 ◼   ► With a paperclip.

01:12:44 ◼   ► And the worst part was is forcing the paperclip in was just

01:12:47 ◼   ► pushing the button on the floppy drive mechanism.

01:12:50 ◼   ► Because it wasn't like Apple had their own floppy drives.

01:12:52 ◼   ► They were just buying the ones from Sony that everybody else used.

01:12:55 ◼   ► the other PC makers. Yeah, they just covered it up. Just for the sake of elegance, they

01:12:59 ◼   ► covered it up. That was brilliant, though. It was brilliant the way that under normal operation,

01:13:07 ◼   ► you didn't eject the floppy disk, the system did. And so you'd have to, the only way to get it out

01:13:13 ◼   ► was to drag it to the trash. Although that metaphor, dragging it just to trash is one of

01:13:19 ◼   ► of those. That was a little weird because you tell somebody that the first time. What do you

01:13:25 ◼   ► think dragging a floppy disk to the trash does? And I think the right answer is somebody, the

01:13:31 ◼   ► correct answer in terms of what happened is it would eject the disk, but I think the right answer

01:13:35 ◼   ► in terms of being able to intuit how the metaphors of the Mac worked would be, well, it erases the

01:13:42 ◼   ► the disk, right?

01:13:43 ◼   ► Nope, it ejects it.

01:13:44 ◼   ► They fixed it.

01:13:48 ◼   ► It was funny.

01:13:48 ◼   ► They fixed it in Mac OS X by having the trash can turn

01:13:51 ◼   ► into an eject button as you drag a disk, which works,

01:13:55 ◼   ► because it looks like an ejector,

01:13:56 ◼   ► but it's still a little weird.

01:13:58 ◼   ► My problem with this is that I think

01:14:02 ◼   ► this is the phone that everybody is going to want.

01:14:04 ◼   ► And if it costs more and is lower quantity

01:14:07 ◼   ► and they can't sell it, who's going to buy the 7S and 7S Plus?

01:14:11 ◼   ► I don't get it.

01:14:14 ◼   ► I guess that there's a lot of people who are like, well,

01:14:16 ◼   ► that new phone looks awesome, but I'm not

01:14:18 ◼   ► paying over $1,000.

01:14:19 ◼   ► I only want a 32 gigabyte iPhone 7,

01:14:22 ◼   ► so I'm going to pay $600 or whatever, $650 or whatever,

01:14:25 ◼   ► costs for a 32 gig iPhone 6 or 7s.

01:14:30 ◼   ► So I see that, but it's like--

01:14:33 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:14:34 ◼   ► It just seems a little weird to me that they would do both.

01:14:38 ◼   ► If they're going to come out with a new design,

01:14:40 ◼   ► why not just say this is the new design?

01:14:42 ◼   ► I guess because the price is so high, I don't know.

01:14:45 ◼   ► - Yeah. - I guess it--

01:14:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I guess they wanna do it,

01:14:48 ◼   ► they wanna make it, I don't know.

01:14:50 ◼   ► Maybe they won't do it. - Right.

01:14:51 ◼   ► - But if they wanna do it,

01:14:53 ◼   ► you know, sell it at a high price because you can't,

01:14:58 ◼   ► I don't know, I'm not gonna get that phone.

01:15:02 ◼   ► I mean, the thing that bothers me about this report

01:15:04 ◼   ► is there's no mention of a four inch phone.

01:15:06 ◼   ► - Right, right, right.

01:15:08 ◼   ► Right, because that is sort of--

01:15:09 ◼   ► that's what I want them to do if they have the technology

01:15:12 ◼   ► to make edge-to-edge phones, is I

01:15:14 ◼   ► want them to make a phone with the screen size of the iPhone

01:15:17 ◼   ► 7, the 4.7-inch diagonal, and then make the phone just

01:15:22 ◼   ► that size of that screen, which would be about as tall

01:15:25 ◼   ► as the iPhone SE and a little wider.

01:15:29 ◼   ► And I could take that.

01:15:30 ◼   ► I could take it being a little wider,

01:15:32 ◼   ► but having it be that height, man, that would be great.

01:15:35 ◼   ► That's the phone I wanted to make,

01:15:36 ◼   ► and they're not making it.

01:15:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, maybe that's the next year.

01:15:40 ◼   ► - I guess, I don't know, but, you know.

01:15:43 ◼   ► - I mean, and I don't mind paying more for it.

01:15:45 ◼   ► I mean, it was very nice not having to pay much

01:15:47 ◼   ► for the iPhone SE, but I'm used to paying,

01:15:50 ◼   ► you know, basically paying 650, so I would do that.

01:15:55 ◼   ► - I would argue--

01:15:56 ◼   ► - I want the, I just want the smaller phone

01:15:58 ◼   ► with modern terms.

01:16:00 ◼   ► - I would argue right now that the most beloved iPhone

01:16:03 ◼   ► Apple is selling today is the iPhone SE.

01:16:06 ◼   ► that the, meaning the people who have the iPhone SE

01:16:09 ◼   ► know exactly why they bought it

01:16:10 ◼   ► and they're delighted by it.

01:16:12 ◼   ► I know you like it.

01:16:13 ◼   ► My pal, my pal, Chinkudol, has one and waited for it.

01:16:18 ◼   ► I mean, he doesn't really follow this stuff religiously,

01:16:20 ◼   ► but he just so did not want a bigger phone.

01:16:23 ◼   ► And he got the SE and he loves it.

01:16:25 ◼   ► He says it's the best thing,

01:16:26 ◼   ► the best thing he's ever owned period, like gadget wise.

01:16:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:16:29 ◼   ► Well, that's what I think.

01:16:30 ◼   ► Like the best Apple products I bought within

01:16:33 ◼   ► at least the last year are the SE and AirPods.

01:16:36 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:16:36 ◼   ► - I love it.

01:16:38 ◼   ► I mean, I don't use the, I didn't buy an SE,

01:16:40 ◼   ► I sent my review unit back,

01:16:42 ◼   ► and ultimately it's 'cause I want the camera.

01:16:46 ◼   ► But I have mixed feelings.

01:16:48 ◼   ► And everybody I know who has like the iPhone 7

01:16:50 ◼   ► sort of has the, well, I already have a bigger phone,

01:16:53 ◼   ► I kinda wish I had that super fancy dual lens camera

01:16:55 ◼   ► and the 7 Plus, and everybody has the 7 Plus,

01:16:57 ◼   ► it's like, I love this phone, I love how big it is,

01:16:59 ◼   ► I love the all-day battery life, but it is kinda big.

01:17:01 ◼   ► You know, like Marco Arman was just talking about an ATP

01:17:04 ◼   ► where he keeps, you know, he's like 51, 49 each way,

01:17:09 ◼   ► and every time he kind of commits to one,

01:17:11 ◼   ► the second he goes there, the grass is greener

01:17:13 ◼   ► on the other side and he wants to go the other way.

01:17:15 ◼   ► Whereas the iPhone SE people know exactly what they want.

01:17:17 ◼   ► They want a phone with that super nice hand feel,

01:17:20 ◼   ► pocket size, you know.

01:17:24 ◼   ► For the people who know that that's what they want

01:17:25 ◼   ► is a small phone, the iPhone SE is absolutely amazing.

01:17:27 ◼   ► It's the best device, best iPhone Apple's ever made

01:17:31 ◼   ► in some ways.

01:17:32 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:17:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I would-- - And in terms of,

01:17:34 ◼   ► and I'm not surprised one bit that they spent

01:17:37 ◼   ► like months trying to get it into sufficient quantity

01:17:40 ◼   ► to meet demand, that this phone with your own

01:17:43 ◼   ► internal technologies was actually so popular

01:17:45 ◼   ► that they couldn't keep up with demand.

01:17:48 ◼   ► - Yeah. - So I don't know, I don't--

01:17:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I don't know if this is what's coming out

01:17:52 ◼   ► in the fall, I'm not sure what I'm gonna do.

01:17:56 ◼   ► Because I don't want a bigger phone,

01:17:57 ◼   ► and so, and I don't wanna spend,

01:18:00 ◼   ► I mean, I'm certainly not gonna spend $1,000

01:18:01 ◼   ► to get a giganto phone.

01:18:03 ◼   ► And I don't wanna eye the other two,

01:18:06 ◼   ► so I'm gonna stick with my SE.

01:18:07 ◼   ► - The consensus on, like I said,

01:18:09 ◼   ► like the phone, the ideal phone that I wish Apple would make

01:18:12 ◼   ► was with 4.7 inch display,

01:18:14 ◼   ► this display from the iPhone 7 with no chin or forehead.

01:18:18 ◼   ► And if they can narrow the sides a little bit,

01:18:20 ◼   ► that'd be great.

01:18:21 ◼   ► And that would be a phone that physically would be

01:18:24 ◼   ► about as tall as the SE and a little wider.

01:18:27 ◼   ► And I could take that.

01:18:29 ◼   ► everybody, the consensus, if you just draw a 16,

01:18:32 ◼   ► just take a piece of graph paper

01:18:34 ◼   ► and make a 16 to nine aspect ratio rectangle

01:18:38 ◼   ► with a 5.8 inch diagonal,

01:18:41 ◼   ► which is the size of this OLED display

01:18:43 ◼   ► everybody's talking about,

01:18:44 ◼   ► that's roughly as tall as the iPhone 7.

01:18:49 ◼   ► So you're not carrying around a plus sized phone

01:18:52 ◼   ► in height anymore.

01:18:53 ◼   ► You've got like the smaller current iPhone,

01:18:56 ◼   ► the mid-sized iPhone in height,

01:18:58 ◼   ► But it's a lot wider.

01:18:59 ◼   ► It is a very wide phone.

01:19:01 ◼   ► Just take a piece of graph, here's your homework listeners,

01:19:06 ◼   ► take a piece of graph paper and draw it.

01:19:07 ◼   ► I don't want a phone that's any bigger than,

01:19:09 ◼   ► this phone is the biggest phone

01:19:10 ◼   ► that I could possibly be happy carrying.

01:19:12 ◼   ► So I don't want a phone

01:19:13 ◼   ► that's the same height as this but wider.

01:19:16 ◼   ► I'm not saying I won't buy it,

01:19:17 ◼   ► but I'm gonna bitch about it

01:19:19 ◼   ► every single week on this show.

01:19:21 ◼   ► Here, let me take a final break here

01:19:26 ◼   ► and do our third and final sponsor of the week.

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01:19:45 ◼   ► Put an asterisk right there.

01:19:47 ◼   ► Asterisk, that means I'm gonna have a footnote at the end.

01:19:49 ◼   ► So listen, I'll tell you what that footnote is at the end.

01:19:52 ◼   ► Now here's the deal.

01:19:52 ◼   ► Casper created one perfect mattress.

01:19:54 ◼   ► They have a team of engineers, mattress engineers.

01:19:58 ◼   ► And instead of selling like six different types

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01:20:03 ◼   ► and different tech, you know, whatever, no.

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01:20:06 ◼   ► So you don't have to decide.

01:20:08 ◼   ► Who wants to decide?

01:20:08 ◼   ► Let the mattress engineers decide.

01:20:10 ◼   ► Like you buy a mattress, what, once every 10 years

01:20:13 ◼   ► or something like that?

01:20:14 ◼   ► You don't know anything about buying a mattress.

01:20:15 ◼   ► Who does?

01:20:16 ◼   ► But mattress engineers do.

01:20:17 ◼   ► So they just made one.

01:20:18 ◼   ► This is a very Apple-like way of doing things.

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01:21:14 ◼   ► a king-size mattress or queen or whatever you want. You open it up in your bedroom,

01:21:17 ◼   ► it sucks up all the oxygen. So be careful because you could get hurt. You could asphyxiate.

01:21:22 ◼   ► Like open it and kind of like make sure a window is open and it fills with air.

01:21:28 ◼   ► Early on, yeah, early on some engineers at Casper. Yes.

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01:21:37 ◼   ► And if you're not happy, I swear to you, they will no questions asked, no hassle.

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01:21:59 ◼   ► You'll say 50 bucks towards your mattress next time. You need a mattress go to Casper. I swear it is great

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01:22:06 ◼   ► Here's the asterisk. They also sell a dog mattress

01:22:09 ◼   ► That's a dog mattress

01:22:12 ◼   ► I was gonna say when you get the dog you can get one for the dog that code doesn't work on the dog mattress because the

01:22:16 ◼   ► mattress, the dog mattress is cheap enough that they won't give you 50 bucks

01:22:19 ◼   ► off. But your dog will thank you. So that's the asterisk. You can't get that.

01:22:23 ◼   ► You can't save the money on that. Oh, anything else? Anything else you wanted

01:22:28 ◼   ► to talk about? I had a couple of other things in the show notes. You see

01:22:30 ◼   ► Samsung's... Samsung had a factory catch fire because of batteries.

01:22:35 ◼   ► Just why? Because of batteries they threw out. They threw out a bunch of bum batteries and they caught on fire.

01:22:44 ◼   ► I got a note from—I'm not going to say who, but I got a note from somebody else in

01:22:49 ◼   ► the media.

01:22:50 ◼   ► It's sort of like not an enemy of mine, but someone who likes to give me shit.

01:22:56 ◼   ► And he wrote that—he was like, "I don't often have good things to say about you, but

01:23:01 ◼   ► slow clap for this one," which was my link to this.

01:23:06 ◼   ► I wrote, "The headline was 'Samsung factory fire triggered by discarded batteries,'

01:23:10 ◼   ► And my entire contents of the article was, "The rare case when a figurative garbage fire turns

01:23:15 ◼   ► into a literal garbage fire." Now, that's good. I call this show, the show notes, this description

01:23:22 ◼   ► of the talk show says that it's the director's commentary for "Daring Fireball," which has

01:23:25 ◼   ► sort of happened. I sometimes look at that and think it's not quite right. But to do a real

01:23:30 ◼   ► director's commentary, I will reveal my thinking behind this post, where I knew I wanted the link

01:23:34 ◼   ► to it. The joke came to me immediately, but I didn't know which way to do it. Put the straight

01:23:41 ◼   ► news in the headline and make the joke in the body, or should I use the headline,

01:23:47 ◼   ► "Figurative garbage fire turns into literal garbage fire," and then have the body say,

01:23:56 ◼   ► "Samsung factory fire triggered by discarded batteries." I couldn't decide which way to go.

01:24:03 ◼   ► I kind of regret it. That's why I'm sort of talking about it now. Where I kind of feel like maybe it

01:24:06 ◼   ► was a little more likely to go viral as a retweeted tweet if because the thing that goes in the tweet

01:24:12 ◼   ► is the headline. Yes. Yeah. And it comes off more as an onion-esque thing, except it's real.

01:24:22 ◼   ► Totally. That was one of the jokes I read through my head too. And I try to avoid it because usually

01:24:30 ◼   ► if the joke that comes to me is not from the Onion, there's a better joke somewhere, because

01:24:34 ◼   ► you could say it about a lot of things. But it really does read like an Onion article,

01:24:38 ◼   ► like one of the ones that doesn't even have the article where they just have headlines.

01:24:41 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:24:44 ◼   ► Anything else that you wanted to talk about this week?

01:24:47 ◼   ► Your site is very political.

01:24:57 ◼   ► It is, it is.

01:24:58 ◼   ► I don't know what you don't know. I don't know if you do that on the show.

01:25:02 ◼   ► I mean, I noticed that I've noticed you've gotten some pushback from some readers.

01:25:07 ◼   ► Uh, a little bit, but since this is the director's commentary.

01:25:10 ◼   ► I will say this, uh, that I have, I've actually in recent years, largely tuned out of

01:25:15 ◼   ► obsessively watching the stats during Fireball. Um, it roughly, uh, it's not secret though. I'm

01:25:22 ◼   ► not, I'm not secretive about it. A couple of years ago, it peaked out at around 4 million page views

01:25:27 ◼   ► per month, and it collapsed when Google Reader went away.

01:25:36 ◼   ► I lost around a million page views a month when Google Reader went away.

01:25:40 ◼   ► And seemingly there were so many people using Google Reader who, when a new Daring Fireball

01:25:44 ◼   ► articles would come up, they would go, you know, like, you know, open a new tab from

01:25:49 ◼   ► Google Reader to read it on Daring Fireball.

01:25:52 ◼   ► This isn't counting people who just read the RSS.

01:25:54 ◼   ► This is people who come to the site.

01:25:55 ◼   ► Google Reader had a tremendous impact on the page views.

01:25:59 ◼   ► But I don't think it had any impact on the number of people

01:26:01 ◼   ► who read during Fireball.

01:26:02 ◼   ► This is why I have never sold my sponsorships based

01:26:05 ◼   ► on promises of page views.

01:26:06 ◼   ► It's just a loose estimate of how many people read the site.

01:26:12 ◼   ► Whether they come once a day or whether they come three times a day,

01:26:15 ◼   ► it's readers that matter more than pages.

01:26:17 ◼   ► And slowly but surely-- and lots of other people have noticed this too--

01:26:20 ◼   ► page views are down.

01:26:22 ◼   ► But they've stabilized at somewhere between around 2.5

01:26:26 ◼   ► million page views per month.

01:26:28 ◼   ► And that's super stable.

01:26:29 ◼   ► That's been, for the last 18 months--

01:26:32 ◼   ► September is the only exception where September

01:26:35 ◼   ► goes up a little bit because that's when the iPhone news

01:26:37 ◼   ► comes out.

01:26:37 ◼   ► And I tend to be writing a little more,

01:26:39 ◼   ► and people are a little more interested.

01:26:41 ◼   ► But other than September, it's pretty stable month to month.

01:26:43 ◼   ► There's been no drop-off since I've started

01:26:48 ◼   ► writing more about politics.

01:26:49 ◼   ► So all the people who've said, you're going to lose--

01:26:52 ◼   ► you know, I come to you to get away from this, you're going to lose readers.

01:26:55 ◼   ► I haven't lost any readers or if I F well,

01:26:58 ◼   ► you and you've always talked about it at least a little bit now and again.

01:27:01 ◼   ► So it's not, it shouldn't, your views shouldn't be a surprise to anybody.

01:27:06 ◼   ► I would not, I would not, I didn't do this during the George W. Bush era.

01:27:09 ◼   ► Uh,

01:27:10 ◼   ► I would not have done it if John McCain had beaten, uh,

01:27:15 ◼   ► Obama with one exception, which I will come back to in a second.

01:27:18 ◼   ► And I almost certainly would not have done it if Mitt Romney had beaten Obama four years ago with Paul Ryan.

01:27:24 ◼   ► The exception is, and I did write about it then in 2008, was I was vociferously opposed to Sarah Palin as the vice presidential nominee

01:27:32 ◼   ► on the grounds that she was completely, utterly, literally no politics involved, just unqualified and unfit for the job as vice president.

01:27:41 ◼   ► Like the president we have now.

01:27:43 ◼   ► Exactly, like, except I would, would you trade Trump for Sarah Palin?

01:27:48 ◼   ► Oh, God. That's a close call. Maybe? I would. I think I would. Maybe. I think I would. That's

01:27:55 ◼   ► a really frightening thought. I think I would because I think she's completely unqualified,

01:27:58 ◼   ► and I don't think she's a real reality. I don't think she's big on facts. But I don't think she's,

01:28:06 ◼   ► on the other hand, I don't think—which I think are things that you really need. I think it's

01:28:10 ◼   ► absolutely essential. I think this idea that you could be unhinged from reality—I know people say

01:28:14 ◼   ► like "unhinged from reality." It's a cliche, but I think that's literally what Donald Trump is. I

01:28:18 ◼   ► I think he's completely unhinged from reality.

01:28:22 ◼   ► He's also-- I think he's more vindictive than she is.

01:28:24 ◼   ► Yes, I completely agree with that.

01:28:26 ◼   ► I completely agree that he's more vindictive.

01:28:30 ◼   ► I just--

01:28:31 ◼   ► She can be a little vindictive, but he's

01:28:35 ◼   ► turned it into an art form.

01:28:37 ◼   ► It's a closer call.

01:28:38 ◼   ► I mean, there's no doubt in my mind--

01:28:39 ◼   ► and I would take Mike Pence.

01:28:41 ◼   ► I'm hoping that Trump gets impeached.

01:28:43 ◼   ► I'm hoping that there's some kind of plan in place

01:28:46 ◼   ► in the Republican Party and that--

01:28:48 ◼   ► - I mean, he is, my pence is reprehensible as a,

01:28:51 ◼   ► as a, I would think both a person and a politician,

01:28:55 ◼   ► but I think he's much more stable.

01:29:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't think he, I don't think he would,

01:29:04 ◼   ► there's no doubt in my mind that he would not

01:29:05 ◼   ► start a war on a lark.

01:29:08 ◼   ► I really, really, I mean, I--

01:29:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, some of these comments that he's made,

01:29:12 ◼   ► you know, he's very interested in making,

01:29:15 ◼   ► like tiny nukes because he seems like he seems like sometime within the next four years he wants

01:29:24 ◼   ► to drop the nuclear bomb right so he's made the argument of why do we why do we have them

01:29:27 ◼   ► and we're not going to use them which is terrifying yeah uh the truth is we don't have we we have them

01:29:36 ◼   ► because we invented them and it you know somebody else was going to invent them first and it was

01:29:40 ◼   ► strategically better for us to have invented them but really the whole point of having them now is

01:29:45 ◼   ► is to hopefully keep anybody else on the planet

01:29:48 ◼   ► from using them, which is--

01:29:50 ◼   ► From using them.

01:29:52 ◼   ► It's deterrence.

01:29:53 ◼   ► Well, the guy doesn't know what the START treaty is.

01:29:55 ◼   ► Well, and the other thing is that the whole theory

01:29:57 ◼   ► of nuclear deterrence is based on a chess-like series

01:30:02 ◼   ► of strategic, if we do this, they might do--

01:30:08 ◼   ► here's what they might do in response.

01:30:10 ◼   ► And at any step of the way, there's this logical aspect

01:30:14 ◼   ► of okay, so it really makes the most sense

01:30:16 ◼   ► for nobody to use them first.

01:30:18 ◼   ► And it's the fact that there's like three or four

01:30:21 ◼   ► logical steps involved to completely prevent this man

01:30:24 ◼   ► from using it.

01:30:26 ◼   ► It's really, to me, it is politics in terms of

01:30:29 ◼   ► it's commenting on politicians, but it's not,

01:30:31 ◼   ► I'm still trying my best to avoid any sort of

01:30:34 ◼   ► left-right divide.

01:30:35 ◼   ► And the only aspect of it that doesn't involve Trump

01:30:37 ◼   ► that I'm willing to write about is the stuff

01:30:40 ◼   ► that I would consider out now, corruption.

01:30:42 ◼   ► which to me shouldn't be a left-right thing,

01:30:45 ◼   ► but unfortunately has become one.

01:30:47 ◼   ► Like this thing yesterday where I linked to the story

01:30:49 ◼   ► about Trump's new FCC guy,

01:30:51 ◼   ► which is sort of more along the lines

01:30:53 ◼   ► of traditional during-fireball content,

01:30:54 ◼   ► talking about the FCC and the stuff that they can regulate.

01:30:57 ◼   ► But that one of the things that,

01:30:59 ◼   ► the regulations that he's targeted to get rid of

01:31:02 ◼   ► is a thing to open up cable boxes,

01:31:05 ◼   ► to have laws in place to open up the cable box market.

01:31:09 ◼   ► Well, that's not a liberal idea.

01:31:11 ◼   ► know that that's just anybody who's ever been frustrated with the shitty you

01:31:16 ◼   ► don't have any options here's Comcast gives you this box and you get it and

01:31:19 ◼   ► that's it it and it sucks and you have to pay them $100 a month to use it or

01:31:25 ◼   ► whatever they charge that that's not a politics that's not a politics thing

01:31:29 ◼   ► there's not a single regular person in the entire country of 300 million people

01:31:33 ◼   ► who wouldn't be better off if if if that was the law of the land and instead the

01:31:37 ◼   ► only people who it works for people who probably you know who own cable

01:31:40 ◼   ► companies.

01:31:42 ◼   ► - Right, right.

01:31:43 ◼   ► - So that's just out and out corruption in my mind.

01:31:45 ◼   ► Or this other one that really gets me

01:31:47 ◼   ► is this thing yesterday I linked to where

01:31:49 ◼   ► this Georgia Republican named Purdue

01:31:53 ◼   ► has introduced resolution to throw out

01:31:56 ◼   ► a new package of rules for prepaid debit card

01:32:00 ◼   ► overdraft fees.

01:32:03 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, yeah.

01:32:04 ◼   ► - And this is the thing that affects low income people.

01:32:05 ◼   ► Low income people can't get a credit card.

01:32:07 ◼   ► They go and if they have the cash,

01:32:08 ◼   ► you can get a prepaid debit card.

01:32:09 ◼   ► Now you have a debit card that's prepaid, and you can use it in places where you need

01:32:14 ◼   ► a credit card.

01:32:15 ◼   ► I mean, this is a thing that can really help people get back on their feet because it's

01:32:18 ◼   ► really hard to function in our society without a credit card or something that works like

01:32:22 ◼   ► a credit card that you can swipe.

01:32:26 ◼   ► The idea that they would charge these completely usurious overdraft fees, and this company

01:32:33 ◼   ► that is doing it in favor of runs the payday, what do they call it, payday loan places?

01:32:38 ◼   ► Payday loans, yeah.

01:32:39 ◼   ► Which are notoriously bad and need regulation because they charge the type of interest rates

01:32:45 ◼   ► that the Bible tells you that this is wrong.

01:32:50 ◼   ► It's why the mob isn't that big anymore because they all want to do business.

01:32:54 ◼   ► They don't have to be illegitimate anymore.

01:32:56 ◼   ► And they charge rates that are worse than what the mob ever charged people.

01:32:59 ◼   ► When you go to a loan shark, it really...

01:33:02 ◼   ► But the overdraft fees on these debit cards are actually higher than the payday loan interest

01:33:07 ◼   ► It's absolutely the sort of thing that the government should be doing. It is not a liberal idea. It's not a Democratic idea or a Republican idea.

01:33:16 ◼   ► It is exactly what the government, the idea of government is meant to do. It's just created rules for society that help the population at large.

01:33:23 ◼   ► at large. There's nobody who gets hurt or is offended in terms of their political sensibilities

01:33:31 ◼   ► when the penalty fee for overdrawing your prepaid debit card is a reasonable low level.

01:33:38 ◼   ► It's absolutely absurd. And of course it turns out that the company spent $270,000

01:33:45 ◼   ► lobbying Congress, including this shitbag from Georgia, David Perdue.

01:33:51 ◼   ► [chuckle] But we don't talk politics.

01:33:54 ◼   ► BRIAN KENNY And there's that thing that the North Dakota legislature did.

01:33:59 ◼   ► There was a ballot initiative that would enforce, not enforce just on Republicans, but enforce

01:34:08 ◼   ► ethics rules on any elected official, and they convened an emergency session of the legislature

01:34:16 ◼   ► to overthrow a voter-approved ballot initiative for ethics requirements.

01:34:25 ◼   ► Right. It was literally just a ballot. It was direct democracy, not representative democracy.

01:34:32 ◼   ► Yeah. And admittedly, we have a lot of ballot initiatives out here, and a lot of them are

01:34:38 ◼   ► batshit insane and shitty. And people don't always know what they're doing when they vote for some

01:34:45 ◼   ► of these things. However, in many cases, it's a way to tell the legislature, "Hey, you know what?

01:34:54 ◼   ► Screw you. You're not doing what we want you to do, and now you're going to." Well, I guess not,

01:35:01 ◼   ► you know, unless you can have an emergency session.

01:35:04 ◼   ► The cravenness of convening an emergency session to undo it before it can take place is astounding,

01:35:11 ◼   ► especially on something where it's just ethics and government.

01:35:15 ◼   ► It really isn't controversial. You can argue that Brexit never should have been a ballot initiative.

01:35:20 ◼   ► Right. Oh, yeah. There's a perfect example.

01:35:23 ◼   ► That's exactly the sort of thing that's why representative government is better than direct

01:35:28 ◼   ► democracy. It is a West Coast thing, ballot initiatives. We have them here, but they're all

01:35:32 ◼   ► municipal. It's all Philly. I don't even think they're statewide. I don't think I've ever even

01:35:37 ◼   ► seen a statewide ballot initiative. I don't think Pennsylvania has them. Philadelphia, the city does.

01:35:41 ◼   ► Well, that's why you can't buy beer.

01:35:43 ◼   ► Otherwise, that would have gotten overturned a long time ago.

01:35:49 ◼   ► No, it's actually funny. There actually is not popular appeal in Pennsylvania for this.

01:35:53 ◼   ► I know you've been running short on time here, but the gist of it is, when Prohibition was

01:36:00 ◼   ► repealed, before Prohibition, Philadelphia had the highest per capita number of bars

01:36:05 ◼   ► in the country. There was something like a bar for every 40 men, something like that.

01:36:11 ◼   ► And Philadelphia was a fantastically wet town during Prohibition. None of the bars closed.

01:36:17 ◼   ► They all just claimed to close, just stayed open and the police never enforced it.

01:36:21 ◼   ► But Pennsylvania had a pro-Prohibition governor at the time. I forget the idiot's name. But when

01:36:28 ◼   ► Prohibition was repealed, he created what was called and still is to this day called the

01:36:34 ◼   ► Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board and he publicly said this was because he was pro-prohibition,

01:36:39 ◼   ► he was against the repeal of it even though it had been repealed but he was still pounding the,

01:36:43 ◼   ► you know, sort of like where you can still today be abortion should be illegal politician even

01:36:50 ◼   ► though it's been the law of the land for 44 years. You know, politically it seemingly wasn't

01:36:56 ◼   ► political death to be pro-prohibition. He created the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board with the

01:37:01 ◼   ► stated purpose of making it as difficult as possible to get it alcohol in Pennsylvania

01:37:05 ◼   ► as as he could. And that was where that's where all all liquor comes from. And we've got these

01:37:11 ◼   ► crazy laws where they're starting to get softened up a little bit. Like supermarkets are starting to

01:37:15 ◼   ► get special licenses where they can sell beer. But you can't buy beer in a supermarket. You can only

01:37:21 ◼   ► buy cases of beer from a quote-unquote beer distributor, and a beer distributor can't sell

01:37:26 ◼   ► beer in anything less than a case. So you could go and buy a six-pack, but at this place where you

01:37:32 ◼   ► buy a six-pack, you can't buy more than 12 beers at once. It has to be in two separate six-packs.

01:37:36 ◼   ► If you go to buy a case of beer, you can do that. You can buy wine and spirits in the state-controlled

01:37:42 ◼   ► liquor stores, and only through the state-controlled liquor stores. And anyway, we had a Republican

01:37:46 ◼   ► governor a couple years ago named Corbett who wanted to abolish the Pennsylvania Liquor Control

01:37:51 ◼   ► board and just make Pennsylvania a normal state where you could, you know, like the

01:37:56 ◼   ► places where you buy beer and wine are just independent businesses. And it didn't have

01:38:02 ◼   ► popular support because the way that the opposition, the way they defeated it was the liquor store

01:38:11 ◼   ► employees are all, it's a union job. And the union ran ads saying, you know, we have, I

01:38:18 ◼   ► I think there's, I don't know, 6,000 people employed

01:38:20 ◼   ► by the liquor stores.

01:38:21 ◼   ► This guy's gonna cost us 6,000 jobs.

01:38:23 ◼   ► Now this is in a state with, I don't know,

01:38:26 ◼   ► I forget about the population of Pennsylvania,

01:38:28 ◼   ► but it's like 20 million or something, I don't know.

01:38:30 ◼   ► But 15, 10 million, 10, 20 million people,

01:38:33 ◼   ► 6,000 jobs are gonna be lost.

01:38:35 ◼   ► Without addressing the fact that every single person

01:38:39 ◼   ► who gets hired by the new liquor stores that would open up

01:38:41 ◼   ► would have a job that didn't exist.

01:38:43 ◼   ► That just gets, but just, he's gonna,

01:38:45 ◼   ► getting away with this, getting away with the state stores

01:38:47 ◼   ► would eliminate 6,000 jobs was enough to kill it politically,

01:38:50 ◼   ► which is crazy, absolutely crazy.

01:38:55 ◼   ► So here we now get beer, wine, and liquor

01:38:59 ◼   ► in the grocery store.

01:39:00 ◼   ► I wish.

01:39:02 ◼   ► Can't buy any of it.

01:39:03 ◼   ► So I always say my analogy is if you want to buy your ingredients

01:39:10 ◼   ► to cook dinner, a bottle of wine, and a six pack of beer, in Pennsylvania

01:39:17 ◼   ► there's no possible way that you're not going to three stores.

01:39:20 ◼   ► You have to go to three separate stores. It's crazy.

01:39:23 ◼   ► All right. My thanks to you, John Moltz.

01:39:28 ◼   ► People can enjoy you as at Moltz on Twitter. Uh,

01:39:31 ◼   ► they can hear your melodious voice on your, are you on several podcasts?

01:39:35 ◼   ► Oh my God. How many podcasts, which ones do you want to pitch?

01:39:38 ◼   ► Turning this car around. Uh, it's a parenting podcast with John Armstrong.

01:39:43 ◼   ► The rebound. Yeah. With John Armstrong and the other guy.

01:39:47 ◼   ► and The Rebound with Dan Morin and the other guy,

01:39:50 ◼   ► who is Lex Friedman,

01:39:52 ◼   ► and I do the AeroCast with Dan and Guy English.

01:39:56 ◼   ► - What the hell's that?

01:39:57 ◼   ► - It's about Aero, it's about a TV show.

01:39:59 ◼   ► - Oh, okay.

01:40:00 ◼   ► I know that's why I don't listen to that one.

01:40:02 ◼   ► All right, my thanks to our sponsors, Casper.

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