The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► Serenity Caldwell, welcome to the show. Welcome back to the show. Good to see you last week.

00:00:03 ◼   ► Good to see you too. It's always fun to see people in person after talking to them on the internet

00:00:09 ◼   ► for six months at a time. Totally true. I feel like we have like a thousand things to talk about.

00:00:17 ◼   ► Right? Yeah, I mean there are only a few things that happened last week, so you know,

00:00:22 ◼   ► it's... was it really last week? I don't understand. It feels like a month ago.

00:00:26 ◼   ► - All right, so you were there, I was there,

00:00:29 ◼   ► and everybody, you know, it's how you make small talk.

00:00:32 ◼   ► You're like, "Hey, what'd you think of the keynote?"

00:00:33 ◼   ► And most people were like, "Hey, that was great."

00:00:36 ◼   ► And I ran into, I would say 20% of the people I ran into

00:00:41 ◼   ► were like, "Eh," I'd give it a B minus.

00:00:43 ◼   ► And I'm like, "What the hell are you thinking?"

00:00:46 ◼   ► - Yeah. - I don't get that.

00:00:48 ◼   ► I don't understand how you could, I don't get it.

00:00:52 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

00:00:54 ◼   ► - No, no, I'm in complete agreement with you.

00:00:57 ◼   ► I mean, we were sitting next to each other at the keynote.

00:00:59 ◼   ► - That's true.

00:01:00 ◼   ► - And I'm pretty sure on multiple occasions,

00:01:02 ◼   ► either I turn to you or you turn to me

00:01:04 ◼   ► and it just, it felt overwhelming.

00:01:05 ◼   ► It felt like a tidal wave of all of these things

00:01:09 ◼   ► just to the point where like I couldn't recover.

00:01:11 ◼   ► It took me 48 hours to be in a normal state of mind

00:01:15 ◼   ► because I just felt like we were constantly

00:01:16 ◼   ► being over-washed with, oh, and we've been working on AR.

00:01:19 ◼   ► Oh, and we've been working on VR.

00:01:21 ◼   ► Oh, and there's a new iMac Pro.

00:01:23 ◼   ► Oh, and of course, new operating systems.

00:01:25 ◼   ► Oh, and your iPad.

00:01:27 ◼   ► Here's a new iPad.

00:01:28 ◼   ► Oh, and ProMotion.

00:01:29 ◼   ► None of you are gonna know what that means,

00:01:31 ◼   ► but you're gonna like it.

00:01:32 ◼   ► It's just, I don't understand how you--

00:01:33 ◼   ► - Here's a totally new multitasking interface

00:01:36 ◼   ► for iPad Pro users. (laughing)

00:01:38 ◼   ► Here are brand new MacBook Pros, a new MacBook.

00:01:43 ◼   ► Here's brand new iMacs.

00:01:44 ◼   ► Like you said, here's the upcoming iMac Pro.

00:01:47 ◼   ► And then, in addition to all these things

00:01:50 ◼   ► which are like actual products

00:01:51 ◼   ► that you can either buy right now today

00:01:54 ◼   ► or you will be able to buy later this year,

00:01:57 ◼   ► then they were like, here's our AR kit.

00:01:59 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:02:01 ◼   ► I really don't.

00:02:03 ◼   ► And I understand that maybe people

00:02:05 ◼   ► have a pet feature or thing that maybe didn't get addressed.

00:02:10 ◼   ► But to me, I have to admit that that was a pretty good keynote.

00:02:14 ◼   ► And even if it didn't get your pet feature or product,

00:02:19 ◼   ► It's like, you have to admit they knocked down a lot of pins

00:02:22 ◼   ► in the bowling alley on that keynote.

00:02:24 ◼   ► - They absolutely did.

00:02:27 ◼   ► And I mean, I don't understand how at least one

00:02:31 ◼   ► of your pet features did not get answered

00:02:34 ◼   ► during that keynote because there were so many little fixes.

00:02:37 ◼   ► Like drag and drop is a big,

00:02:38 ◼   ► I'm like, how is drag and drop not on everybody's list?

00:02:42 ◼   ► At least in some minor form

00:02:44 ◼   ► or automatic translation on Siri.

00:02:47 ◼   ► That's something I've been wanting it to do for, I don't know, four years.

00:02:51 ◼   ► Uh, God, the fact that drag and drop also fixes the home screen issue.

00:02:56 ◼   ► So you can move multiple icons at once or yeah, there's just, it, I often

00:03:02 ◼   ► stammer when people are like, what was your favorite new feature?

00:03:05 ◼   ► What was your, like, I haven't even gotten to make my like little features

00:03:09 ◼   ► that I liked that you didn't hear about because quite honestly, there are so many

00:03:13 ◼   ► that it, it feels, uh, God.

00:03:16 ◼   ► It's just like every time I try and think of them,

00:03:18 ◼   ► I think of seven at once,

00:03:20 ◼   ► and then my brain just shuts down.

00:03:21 ◼   ► - I said this during the live show with Craig and Phil,

00:03:28 ◼   ► and I apologize that you're following up

00:03:32 ◼   ► on Craig Federighi and Phil Schiller.

00:03:34 ◼   ► It's either the best or worst slot of the year

00:03:36 ◼   ► on the talk show.

00:03:38 ◼   ► But I said this, and I did say this,

00:03:40 ◼   ► but I'll say it again,

00:03:41 ◼   ► 'cause I know you can back me up on this,

00:03:44 ◼   ► is that it's just sort of a trope in the press area

00:03:50 ◼   ► where when those catch-all slides go up, like, oh,

00:03:54 ◼   ► and here's the 29 things that are new in Mac OS

00:03:58 ◼   ► that we didn't get to talk about here,

00:04:01 ◼   ► the way it goes in the keynote is slowly but surely everybody

00:04:05 ◼   ► in the press area sort of raises their phone or their standalone

00:04:07 ◼   ► camera and they quick snap a photo of that slide.

00:04:10 ◼   ► And they're like, well, I'll take a look

00:04:12 ◼   ► at that after the keynote's over and look to see if there's anything really interesting

00:04:17 ◼   ► that just sort of snuck into that slide. And over and over and over again in that keynote,

00:04:21 ◼   ► they'd put that slide up, the catch-all slide, and by the time people got their cameras up,

00:04:26 ◼   ► it was gone. And everybody's like, "Oh my god, did you get a picture of that?" It went

00:04:31 ◼   ► so fast. It went so fast. Here's a fun thing. There are something like 75 features on that

00:04:39 ◼   ► slide. And they're not like little things. Like, I mean, there are a couple little things, right?

00:04:43 ◼   ► Like, flashlight support for iPad Pro is probably a little thing. But they also have like these big,

00:04:49 ◼   ► giant features that they just kind of snuck in there, like Type to Siri, which is currently

00:04:54 ◼   ► an accessibility feature. But I know quite a few people who have been like, "Man, you know,

00:05:00 ◼   ► Siri would be really nice if I could just type to it the same way that I typed to Google Assistant."

00:05:04 ◼   ► And guess what, in iOS 11, that's gonna be there.

00:05:07 ◼   ► The fact that they completely redid iCloud,

00:05:12 ◼   ► not only iCloud family plans,

00:05:14 ◼   ► which were a big pain point for a lot of people,

00:05:17 ◼   ► but file sharing is now going to be a thing in iOS 11,

00:05:21 ◼   ► and file sharing with what it looks like,

00:05:23 ◼   ► and again, it's still a beta,

00:05:24 ◼   ► so obviously things can change,

00:05:26 ◼   ► but based on Apple's documentation,

00:05:27 ◼   ► it looks like it's gonna be almost as full-featured

00:05:29 ◼   ► as Dropbox, where you can just drop people links,

00:05:33 ◼   ► and not just from Apple apps, but for anything,

00:05:36 ◼   ► for a photo or a video or a document.

00:05:38 ◼   ► And you might even be able to use collaboration

00:05:41 ◼   ► if the apps support it.

00:05:42 ◼   ► And again, not just Apple apps,

00:05:44 ◼   ► but we could be getting to a point

00:05:46 ◼   ► where you can collaborate on a Procreate document.

00:05:49 ◼   ► And it's not there yet, but the screenshot markup thing,

00:05:52 ◼   ► which I guess most people aren't really gonna care about,

00:05:55 ◼   ► but you and me and quite a few other people, I think,

00:05:58 ◼   ► and pretty much any writer on the face of this earth

00:06:00 ◼   ► that writes about technology,

00:06:01 ◼   ► marking up screenshots is a pretty big deal.

00:06:05 ◼   ► - I, you know what, that's one of my very favorite features

00:06:08 ◼   ► that they've added because some of these are like ones

00:06:12 ◼   ► that are like, hey, when are we gonna be able to have

00:06:16 ◼   ► like Dropbox integration at a system level, right?

00:06:20 ◼   ► So that's what the Files app does.

00:06:21 ◼   ► And there is a, to, you know,

00:06:25 ◼   ► belabor the term finally, right?

00:06:28 ◼   ► It's like we have everybody who uses Dropbox

00:06:32 ◼   ► or has like a team-based system that uses Dropbox

00:06:35 ◼   ► has been sort of hoping for this every single year.

00:06:40 ◼   ► And so there's a finally aspect to that.

00:06:42 ◼   ► The screenshot thing though to me

00:06:44 ◼   ► is one of my favorite features because it's like

00:06:46 ◼   ► the way screenshots worked up until iOS 11,

00:06:50 ◼   ► it's not like anybody was really complaining about it.

00:06:53 ◼   ► It's like okay, you hit these two buttons

00:06:55 ◼   ► and you get an image of the screen in your photo roll,

00:06:59 ◼   ► and then you can do what you want to with it.

00:07:01 ◼   ► But the way that this works is, it's really fantastic.

00:07:06 ◼   ► And it's very, very obvious that internally to Apple,

00:07:09 ◼   ► they obviously take a lot of screenshots

00:07:11 ◼   ► for like bug reports or UI type things.

00:07:16 ◼   ► And it's so great.

00:07:18 ◼   ► It's super, I don't know.

00:07:22 ◼   ► It's like nothing that people were asking for,

00:07:25 ◼   ► but it's obviously very, very thoughtful.

00:07:27 ◼   ► - It reminds me of, speaking of Craig and Phil,

00:07:30 ◼   ► what Craig and Phil were talking about with High Sierra

00:07:32 ◼   ► and the focus on, you know, oh, we need to, you know,

00:07:35 ◼   ► we need to release something that's not just about snazzy

00:07:38 ◼   ► new features, but also that makes

00:07:40 ◼   ► the operating system better.

00:07:42 ◼   ► And there's a lot of that stuff in iOS 11 too,

00:07:44 ◼   ► where they're just these, a lot of little tiny,

00:07:47 ◼   ► very smart changes that maybe people weren't clamoring for,

00:07:51 ◼   ► but it was always like a back of your mind

00:07:53 ◼   ► sort of thing, right?

00:07:55 ◼   ► The fact that, here's a good one

00:07:57 ◼   ► that I haven't really seen a lot of people pick up on yet,

00:08:00 ◼   ► portrait mode is better, which is obviously a good thing.

00:08:04 ◼   ► It's been in beta for the last year,

00:08:05 ◼   ► and obviously it would get better software-wise

00:08:08 ◼   ► as Apple figured it out.

00:08:09 ◼   ► But in addition to that,

00:08:11 ◼   ► the way that they've made portrait mode better

00:08:13 ◼   ► with the Depth Map API is really smart

00:08:17 ◼   ► in that not only can third-party apps

00:08:19 ◼   ► now take advantage of depth data

00:08:21 ◼   ► and use it not just to blur out the backgrounds

00:08:24 ◼   ► of their images, but they can use it to color isolate

00:08:27 ◼   ► and do other really, really smart and interesting things.

00:08:30 ◼   ► But portrait mode now because of that API

00:08:33 ◼   ► and because of the new image codec,

00:08:35 ◼   ► which by the way is a whole nother cool thing

00:08:37 ◼   ► that just kind of popped out of nowhere.

00:08:39 ◼   ► With the image codec, portrait mode is no longer,

00:08:42 ◼   ► there's no longer the option where you like,

00:08:44 ◼   ► you either have to save the portrait mode photo

00:08:46 ◼   ► or you have to save the no portrait mode photo.

00:08:49 ◼   ► it's just one photo with metadata.

00:08:52 ◼   ► And so you can toggle it on or off at will.

00:08:55 ◼   ► So you can have the portrait mode photo

00:08:57 ◼   ► or you can not have the portrait mode photo.

00:08:58 ◼   ► And what that tells me is not only do they have that,

00:09:02 ◼   ► but it looks like they might be building an implementation

00:09:05 ◼   ► so in the future, you might be able

00:09:07 ◼   ► to alter portrait mode photos.

00:09:10 ◼   ► What was the, was it the Luma, not the Lumu, Luma,

00:09:15 ◼   ► the camera that allowed you to--

00:09:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know you.

00:09:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah, that camera that has vanished

00:09:21 ◼   ► from my brain because it's no longer important.

00:09:23 ◼   ► Well, apparently it looks like you might be able to do

00:09:26 ◼   ► something like that with portrait mode photos,

00:09:28 ◼   ► change what's in focus and change how the things look.

00:09:31 ◼   ► And again, that stuff that's not there yet,

00:09:34 ◼   ► but all of these sort of baseline features have been built

00:09:38 ◼   ► that it really, it gets me really excited

00:09:41 ◼   ► for the future of iOS in a way that I have not been excited

00:09:45 ◼   ► in quite a long time.

00:09:47 ◼   ► It shows me that they're thinking not just, you know,

00:09:50 ◼   ► what's the next feature that we have to do in six months,

00:09:53 ◼   ► but what is our operating system and our feature set

00:09:56 ◼   ► going to look like five years down the road?

00:09:58 ◼   ► What are our photos gonna look like

00:09:59 ◼   ► five years down the road?

00:10:00 ◼   ► It's really exciting.

00:10:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, very much so.

00:10:03 ◼   ► For anybody who isn't as reckless as we are

00:10:06 ◼   ► and already has the iOS 11 beta,

00:10:09 ◼   ► but what happens when you take a screenshot on iOS 11

00:10:12 ◼   ► is as soon as you take the screenshot,

00:10:15 ◼   ► instead of going back to where you are,

00:10:17 ◼   ► you get a little floating thing in the lower left corner

00:10:20 ◼   ► that is the screenshot.

00:10:22 ◼   ► And it's sort of like a temporary doc type thing.

00:10:26 ◼   ► And you can tap it and you can immediately annotate it

00:10:31 ◼   ► with the arrow tool and the other,

00:10:34 ◼   ► what do they call them, markup tools.

00:10:37 ◼   ► So you can circle the thing that you wanna point to

00:10:39 ◼   ► or if you just want the whole screen

00:10:41 ◼   ► and then you can immediately send it to somebody.

00:10:43 ◼   ► And then after you send it, you can just be like,

00:10:45 ◼   ► now throw it away.

00:10:46 ◼   ► So that your photo roll isn't necessarily filled up

00:10:50 ◼   ► with all of these screenshots,

00:10:52 ◼   ► that all you wanted to do is take the screenshot,

00:10:55 ◼   ► send it to the developer of the app,

00:10:58 ◼   ► like if you're testing a beta or something like that.

00:11:01 ◼   ► And then you don't want it forever.

00:11:04 ◼   ► There's no longer like a, I have to go back and remember

00:11:07 ◼   ► to delete a bunch of screenshots step.

00:11:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, or even-- - But if you want to just

00:11:11 ◼   ► save it to your photo roll, you can do that too.

00:11:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, what I love about this, again,

00:11:17 ◼   ► it's a really smart feature,

00:11:20 ◼   ► and I appreciate that they're kind of like,

00:11:22 ◼   ► yeah, we recognize that people tend to have

00:11:25 ◼   ► legions of screenshots cluttering up their photos library.

00:11:30 ◼   ► What I find really awesome as somebody

00:11:33 ◼   ► who takes a lot of screenshots is that often I will take

00:11:37 ◼   ► 20, 30, 40 screenshots in a 10 minute period

00:11:40 ◼   ► because I'm marking up a how-to, right?

00:11:42 ◼   ► I wanna show the steps, I wanna show how that all works.

00:11:45 ◼   ► And usually my workflow is take all of the screenshots,

00:11:50 ◼   ► write the article, and then like four hours

00:11:52 ◼   ► after I've taken the screenshot,

00:11:54 ◼   ► go back and try and remember which screenshot

00:11:56 ◼   ► went with which step and pull it open in napkin

00:11:59 ◼   ► or another third-party annotation app

00:12:01 ◼   ► and put the arrows and the loops that focus.

00:12:06 ◼   ► And now, with the markup tools,

00:12:07 ◼   ► there's a loop built right in there.

00:12:09 ◼   ► So all I have to do when I take the screenshot is tap this and then immediately air drop

00:12:14 ◼   ► it to my phone or air drop it to my computer and then I never have to.

00:12:18 ◼   ► And then I'm just like, "All right, that's the screenshot I want."

00:12:21 ◼   ► And I've already cropped it to the appropriate information so I don't have to worry about

00:12:25 ◼   ► that.

00:12:26 ◼   ► And then I don't have to save it on my phone because it's immediately on my computer where

00:12:29 ◼   ► I can upload it to iMore.

00:12:31 ◼   ► Everything's fantastic.

00:12:33 ◼   ► And that's pretty awesome.

00:12:34 ◼   ► And then the other thing that I really wanted to mention really quickly about screenshots

00:12:39 ◼   ► is that you don't have to go through the annotation process if you really just want to take a

00:12:43 ◼   ► lot of screenshots, like for whatever reason if you're taking a bunch of things.

00:12:47 ◼   ► If you take three or four in succession, it'll pile up on your screen for a limited amount

00:12:53 ◼   ► of time, something like two minutes, I think.

00:12:56 ◼   ► And then if you don't do anything with them, they'll automatically, it'll go away from

00:13:01 ◼   ► your screen and they'll automatically be saved to photos.

00:13:04 ◼   ► But you can also, if you don't want it hovering on your screen while you're doing other things,

00:13:08 ◼   ► you can immediately swipe left to swipe them off the screen, just like you swipe the slide-over

00:13:13 ◼   ► panel away in iOS 11 on the iPad, and they just get autosaved.

00:13:17 ◼   ► And it's just like, you can deal with those later.

00:13:19 ◼   ► So it's just all these little smart gestures and features for, again, a feature that probably

00:13:25 ◼   ► only 10% of the install base is going to use, but it's great.

00:13:29 ◼   ► It's such a helpful feature for the 10% to do.

00:13:33 ◼   ► Right. It's so much better than having them just be dumb images that are in your photo roll.

00:13:40 ◼   ► Yep.

00:13:40 ◼   ► It really is. And it's exactly the sort of thing. It, to me, is a very appley feature where it's like,

00:13:48 ◼   ► "Hey, we're taking a lot of screenshots. We know that, you know, like you said, probably like 10%

00:13:53 ◼   ► it's like the power users, you know, the beta tester type audience. But they take a lot of them and they're obviously not

00:14:00 ◼   ► Photos, you know, they're they're very different

00:14:03 ◼   ► They're a very different thing than the photos you take when you're out

00:14:07 ◼   ► Out and about in your daily life and you're like, oh, here's an interesting thing in my real life

00:14:13 ◼   ► I screenshot a totally different thing

00:14:14 ◼   ► It should be treated as a different thing and now the system treats it as a different thing and it's it's really really nice

00:14:20 ◼   ► Yeah, you know

00:14:21 ◼   ► I think this is a this was their compromise from all the people filing radars asking for a screenshots album

00:14:29 ◼   ► which by the way we also have now.

00:14:32 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:14:32 ◼   ► - So, you know, just a little--

00:14:34 ◼   ► - You know what, the gist, the entirety of this podcast

00:14:37 ◼   ► is going to be--

00:14:38 ◼   ► - Just us talking. - Temptation to it.

00:14:40 ◼   ► No, temptation to install iOS 11 on all of your devices,

00:14:43 ◼   ► even though I refuse to, I have so far refused to install it

00:14:48 ◼   ► on my actual day-to-day carry iPhone.

00:14:50 ◼   ► - Really?

00:14:52 ◼   ► - It's tempting, it's very tempting.

00:14:54 ◼   ► Never install beta one on your phone.

00:14:58 ◼   ► - No. - That's my role.

00:14:59 ◼   ► - Unless you're me, but really don't.

00:15:01 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:15:02 ◼   ► Yeah, I only did it

00:15:04 ◼   ► because I did not bring a second iPhone with me

00:15:06 ◼   ► because I was a stupid person.

00:15:08 ◼   ► Yeah, I came straight from a roller derby tournament.

00:15:11 ◼   ► So I had limited packing space and I'm like,

00:15:14 ◼   ► "Do I really want like $10,000 worth of electronics

00:15:18 ◼   ► sitting in our locker room?"

00:15:19 ◼   ► You know, there's like, ugh.

00:15:21 ◼   ► - So I use an app called Itta, I-T-A,

00:15:27 ◼   ► and it's like a little to-do list app.

00:15:31 ◼   ► And the only thing I really use the app for

00:15:33 ◼   ► is I have a list called Packing List

00:15:36 ◼   ► for when I go on a trip.

00:15:37 ◼   ► And it's everything I wanna take every time I travel.

00:15:41 ◼   ► And then once I leave the house,

00:15:43 ◼   ► I can reset the list and say, uncheck all the items.

00:15:46 ◼   ► And then the next time I open the list,

00:15:47 ◼   ► they're all unchecked.

00:15:49 ◼   ► And some of the items are only applicable on certain trips.

00:15:53 ◼   ► Like it'll say, like, do you have your passport?

00:15:55 ◼   ► Well, obviously, if I'm going to California,

00:15:58 ◼   ► I don't need my passport.

00:15:59 ◼   ► So it doesn't matter.

00:16:01 ◼   ► But if I am going overseas, you know, wanna have it.

00:16:04 ◼   ► - Probably important. - So I have an item

00:16:05 ◼   ► on that list which is extra iPhone for iOS beta,

00:16:09 ◼   ► which is really only for WWDC.

00:16:12 ◼   ► - Yep, yep. (laughs)

00:16:14 ◼   ► It's the break glass in case of iPhone OS.

00:16:18 ◼   ► - Right, but if you just take an extra old iPhone,

00:16:21 ◼   ► it doesn't really weigh you down.

00:16:22 ◼   ► - No. - It's not like you're weighed

00:16:23 ◼   ► with pounds and pounds of extra material.

00:16:27 ◼   ► - No, exactly.

00:16:28 ◼   ► And with the iPad, it was, you know,

00:16:30 ◼   ► I'm not gonna bring two iPads, but eh, it's fine.

00:16:34 ◼   ► That's why I have a MacBook Pro now,

00:16:36 ◼   ► so I don't have to worry about my iPad

00:16:38 ◼   ► being completely bricked.

00:16:39 ◼   ► - So, all right, let me take a break.

00:16:43 ◼   ► I'll take a break and thank our first sponsor,

00:16:44 ◼   ► and I'll ask you whether or not you have a new iPad yet.

00:16:48 ◼   ► That'll be my topic when I get back.

00:16:49 ◼   ► But first I wanna tell you

00:16:50 ◼   ► about our good friends at Fracture.

00:16:52 ◼   ► Fracture is the photo decor company.

00:16:54 ◼   ► You send Fracture your photos.

00:16:56 ◼   ► You take 'em with your iPhone or your iPad

00:16:58 ◼   ► or whatever camera you want, send 'em to Fracture.

00:17:01 ◼   ► They print them directly on glass.

00:17:05 ◼   ► I don't know how they do it,

00:17:06 ◼   ► but it's not like a piece of paper glued to glass.

00:17:08 ◼   ► Somehow they print photos directly on glass,

00:17:11 ◼   ► and then they mail it to you,

00:17:13 ◼   ► and the thing that they mailed to you

00:17:15 ◼   ► is ready to hang on a wall or prop on your desk,

00:17:18 ◼   ► whatever you want.

00:17:19 ◼   ► It's very clever packaging and backing

00:17:22 ◼   ► where it's all ready to go.

00:17:25 ◼   ► One of my favorite things about this,

00:17:26 ◼   ► and these guys have been sponsoring the show

00:17:29 ◼   ► for a long time,

00:17:30 ◼   ► but recently people have started,

00:17:31 ◼   ► when they get their fractures,

00:17:33 ◼   ► they start tweeting me.

00:17:34 ◼   ► They're like @GruberMe on Twitter

00:17:36 ◼   ► with a picture of their fracture.

00:17:38 ◼   ► And they're some of the most amazing pictures

00:17:40 ◼   ► I've ever seen.

00:17:42 ◼   ► There was somebody, I forget who it was,

00:17:43 ◼   ► somebody who, obviously, whoever you are,

00:17:45 ◼   ► I love you, thank you for listening to the show,

00:17:47 ◼   ► but somebody was at Yosemite National Park

00:17:50 ◼   ► and took an amazing picture,

00:17:52 ◼   ► got it printed on a huge fracture,

00:17:55 ◼   ► like the big 27-inch type thing,

00:17:58 ◼   ► and they took a picture of it on their wall,

00:18:00 ◼   ► and it's beautiful.

00:18:01 ◼   ► And I'm like, "Did you take that with your iPhone?"

00:18:02 ◼   ► And they were like, "Yeah."

00:18:03 ◼   ► And I'm like, "A, that is amazing

00:18:06 ◼   ► "that you took that picture with a phone,

00:18:08 ◼   ► "and it looks so good.

00:18:09 ◼   ► "And B, wow, the fracture print looks amazing."

00:18:13 ◼   ► It's such a great thing to do with your photos.

00:18:18 ◼   ► I'm telling you right now, digital photography has,

00:18:23 ◼   ► nobody wants to go back to film.

00:18:26 ◼   ► It is so much better because everybody takes

00:18:28 ◼   ► so many more pictures, and more pictures

00:18:30 ◼   ► are better than fewer pictures.

00:18:32 ◼   ► But the one thing we've lost is that having all

00:18:36 ◼   ► of your pictures just on a little four inch phone

00:18:40 ◼   ► is nowhere near as cool as having your best photos

00:18:43 ◼   ► printed really big and hang them on a wall

00:18:45 ◼   ► for everybody to see.

00:18:47 ◼   ► So take your best pictures, get them printed on a fracture.

00:18:49 ◼   ► You will not regret it.

00:18:51 ◼   ► Here's where you go to find out more.

00:18:52 ◼   ► Go to their website.

00:18:53 ◼   ► It's fractureme.com.

00:18:56 ◼   ► Fractureme.com/podcast.

00:19:00 ◼   ► And then at the end of the whole process,

00:19:02 ◼   ► when you order your prints,

00:19:04 ◼   ► they will ask you where you heard of them,

00:19:05 ◼   ► and then it's a one-question survey.

00:19:07 ◼   ► Just tell them you heard about it on the talk show,

00:19:09 ◼   ► and they'll know you came from the show.

00:19:12 ◼   ► But anyway, you will never regret getting

00:19:15 ◼   ► as many pictures as you like printed at Fracture.

00:19:17 ◼   ► It's such a great service.

00:19:19 ◼   ► So my thanks to them.

00:19:20 ◼   ► All right, iPad Pro, do you have one yet?

00:19:24 ◼   ► - Yes, I do.

00:19:25 ◼   ► Yes, I do.

00:19:26 ◼   ► - What size?

00:19:28 ◼   ► - The 10.5.

00:19:29 ◼   ► I'm holding it in my hands right now, actually.

00:19:31 ◼   ► - What color?

00:19:32 ◼   ► - Space gray this time.

00:19:34 ◼   ► - I love the space gray.

00:19:36 ◼   ► You know what?

00:19:37 ◼   ► I would have ordered two.

00:19:38 ◼   ► We're actually traveling soon.

00:19:39 ◼   ► We've got like a family wedding

00:19:41 ◼   ► and we've got a vacation coming up.

00:19:42 ◼   ► And it's like by the time we got back from WWDC,

00:19:45 ◼   ► the goddamn things were back ordered.

00:19:47 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:19:47 ◼   ► - No!

00:19:48 ◼   ► - No, they really are.

00:19:49 ◼   ► Their delivery date was actually like,

00:19:52 ◼   ► we're not even gonna be home.

00:19:54 ◼   ► So it's like, ah shit, what are we gonna do?

00:19:56 ◼   ► But I think it's not surprising to me

00:20:00 ◼   ► that they're back ordered already

00:20:02 ◼   ► because these are terrific.

00:20:04 ◼   ► So I do have a review unit from Apple.

00:20:06 ◼   ► So it's not like I'm iPad Pro-less.

00:20:08 ◼   ► - You're not bereft, yeah.

00:20:10 ◼   ► - Right.

00:20:11 ◼   ► I cannot believe how good a device this is.

00:20:15 ◼   ► And I say this as somebody who is the,

00:20:20 ◼   ► if you said to me, hey, iPhone, iPad, Mac,

00:20:25 ◼   ► we're gonna take one of them away from you forever,

00:20:28 ◼   ► which one do you want, you'll never use again,

00:20:30 ◼   ► I would immediately say iPad.

00:20:31 ◼   ► Like just take away, leave me my phone

00:20:34 ◼   ► and leave me my Mac and I'll be fine.

00:20:37 ◼   ► Like I'm not an iPad person.

00:20:39 ◼   ► But that said, I think this might be the greatest device

00:20:43 ◼   ► Apple's ever made.

00:20:45 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:20:46 ◼   ► - You know what I mean?

00:20:46 ◼   ► Like I'm not the biggest fan of the iPad as a platform,

00:20:50 ◼   ► but in terms of Apple doing Apple-y things,

00:20:53 ◼   ► that the new iPad Pro is absolutely positively amazing.

00:20:58 ◼   ► - I 100% agree.

00:21:00 ◼   ► - So I'm fascinated though to hear your perspective

00:21:04 ◼   ► as an avid illustrator.

00:21:07 ◼   ► And with the pencil already, in my opinion,

00:21:10 ◼   ► being the best stylus in the consumer space

00:21:14 ◼   ► that you could buy, the difference on the new iPad Pro

00:21:19 ◼   ► with this ProMotion 120 hertz refresh rate,

00:21:23 ◼   ► it's astounding.

00:21:25 ◼   ► It almost feels like with the first iPad Pro

00:21:30 ◼   ► and when the pencil first came out,

00:21:33 ◼   ► it was like, wow, this is the best stylus I've ever used.

00:21:36 ◼   ► with the new iPad Pro and the exact same pencil,

00:21:39 ◼   ► there is this moment of like,

00:21:41 ◼   ► wait, am I actually screwing up

00:21:43 ◼   ► and marking the screen with a real marker?

00:21:46 ◼   ► (Brianna laughs)

00:21:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:21:49 ◼   ► - There really was this,

00:21:52 ◼   ► and it's funny because I take better care

00:21:54 ◼   ► of a review unit from Apple than I do my own hardware.

00:21:57 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:21:58 ◼   ► If I own it and I screw it up,

00:22:00 ◼   ► it's like, well, that's my own thing.

00:22:01 ◼   ► Whereas I wanna make sure

00:22:03 ◼   ► that when I mail these review units back to Apple,

00:22:05 ◼   ► pristine. And I don't even know why because I don't even think they would care. You know

00:22:09 ◼   ► what I mean? Like, what are they doing with the return? I really do feel though that with

00:22:14 ◼   ► the new pencil, it's like if you just took a Sharpie and started like writing on the

00:22:19 ◼   ► screen, it would look exactly the same and have the same response rate. It is...

00:22:26 ◼   ► It's wacky. It's wacky. The way I was debating drawing a comic for ProMotion the same way

00:22:34 ◼   ► that I did for the pencil review.

00:22:37 ◼   ► And I decided against it in part because of time.

00:22:39 ◼   ► But one of the first panels I was doing is I'm like,

00:22:43 ◼   ► "All right, everybody take into their minds,

00:22:45 ◼   ► remember the first time that you as a person

00:22:48 ◼   ► got to use like a really nice pen,

00:22:51 ◼   ► as opposed to like the cruddy Bic pens,

00:22:54 ◼   ► where you have to press down to get the ink to,

00:22:56 ◼   ► and sometimes the ink doesn't work,

00:22:57 ◼   ► and then you get ahold of like a space pen

00:22:59 ◼   ► or a really high-end ink pen.

00:23:02 ◼   ► And when you put the pen to paper, the ink flows out so fast that it startles you a bit at first.

00:23:08 ◼   ► Like you mess up and your letters aren't quite as well formed or you blot

00:23:14 ◼   ► because you're just not used to that kind of performance.

00:23:17 ◼   ► You're not used to that like, "Oh, all this ink is now right here."

00:23:21 ◼   ► That's how drawing with promotion feels to me.

00:23:25 ◼   ► where it's like suddenly the ink is almost there faster than I have the capacity, the brain power,

00:23:34 ◼   ► or the training to draw with it. And you adjust with it, but it's a very, very unnerving

00:23:41 ◼   ► experience at first because you've, you know, especially, I mean, I felt a little bit that way

00:23:46 ◼   ► when I got the original pencil, but I'd been using Wacoms for years, right, where you kind of know

00:23:52 ◼   ► what good drawing on screens feels like versus like bad iPad drawing on screens.

00:23:58 ◼   ► And this just doesn't, you're right, it doesn't feel, it doesn't mentally feel like drawing

00:24:03 ◼   ► on a screen.

00:24:04 ◼   ► Obviously it's still a screen and they haven't figured out the magical wizardry yet to make

00:24:08 ◼   ► the tip feel like it's drawing on paper.

00:24:10 ◼   ► Although I am convinced that there's some kind of slight magic, you know, voodoo going

00:24:15 ◼   ► on because I do think the screen's a little bit tackier than the previous version of iPad

00:24:19 ◼   ► Pro.

00:24:20 ◼   ► Maybe, yeah, there is something.

00:24:22 ◼   ► Apple says no.

00:24:23 ◼   ► Right.

00:24:24 ◼   ► But I swear, it does feel a little bit, I don't know, maybe it's just promotion tricking my brain.

00:24:29 ◼   ► Right.

00:24:29 ◼   ► It definitely, it feels like there's a slight tackier thing, but regardless of that, it's a

00:24:36 ◼   ► much, much better drawing experience than at this point anything. And I haven't tried the

00:24:41 ◼   ► new Surface Pro yet, which I know has 21 milliseconds of latency as opposed to the

00:24:46 ◼   ► Apple Pencils 20. I'm gonna try and try that out next next week. But I'm I don't know, I think this

00:24:52 ◼   ► might best any digital drawing tool I've used, including a Cintiq.

00:24:56 ◼   ► I think I don't get is I don't get the people who want the pencil to be able to navigate the UI. And

00:25:05 ◼   ► it does still work. Like if you use the pencil in your mail, you can like tap the upper left corner

00:25:11 ◼   ► to go back to your list of mailboxes.

00:25:13 ◼   ► I don't think that should do anything.

00:25:15 ◼   ► I think that touch should be touch,

00:25:17 ◼   ► and the pencil should just be for drawing.

00:25:20 ◼   ► And if you tap the pencil to the screen in a context

00:25:24 ◼   ► where drawing doesn't make any sense,

00:25:25 ◼   ► it shouldn't do anything.

00:25:27 ◼   ► Because I feel like what they should do

00:25:29 ◼   ► is just keep adding more contexts,

00:25:31 ◼   ► where if you tap the pencil to the screen,

00:25:33 ◼   ► you're immediately marking up the thing

00:25:35 ◼   ► that you're looking at.

00:25:36 ◼   ► I just want to draw on the screen with the pencil.

00:25:38 ◼   ► I don't understand why people insisted on having it

00:25:42 ◼   ► so you can tap buttons and stuff with the pencil.

00:25:44 ◼   ► I don't get it.

00:25:46 ◼   ► - So I'm of two minds here because on one hand, yeah,

00:25:49 ◼   ► especially when you look at the iOS 11's

00:25:52 ◼   ► new Instant Markup feature,

00:25:54 ◼   ► where as soon as you go into screenshot mode,

00:25:57 ◼   ► you can draw with it,

00:25:58 ◼   ► or if you tap the pencil to the home screen,

00:26:01 ◼   ► it'll automatically launch you in a notes drawing,

00:26:03 ◼   ► which is pretty cool.

00:26:05 ◼   ► But at the same point, I know people with RSI who have like,

00:26:10 ◼   ► yeah, who are 100% like the pencil is the best tool

00:26:15 ◼   ► I've used for combating my RSI.

00:26:17 ◼   ► And it's really nice to be able to use with a pen.

00:26:21 ◼   ► - So allow me to revise my remarks

00:26:23 ◼   ► and it should be available as an option,

00:26:25 ◼   ► but it should be something you have to turn on

00:26:27 ◼   ► as like an accessibility type thing.

00:26:30 ◼   ► - I'm okay with that, yeah.

00:26:32 ◼   ► - I just don't think by default, it should work as a touch.

00:26:34 ◼   ► I really don't.

00:26:35 ◼   ► And if you want it to, sure, go into settings

00:26:39 ◼   ► and have an option so that you can do it.

00:26:41 ◼   ► And if it helps with your RSI,

00:26:44 ◼   ► I've had my own RSI issues,

00:26:45 ◼   ► so anything that lets you get through that is,

00:26:49 ◼   ► God bless, but I don't think it should be on by default.

00:26:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, my other argument for it,

00:26:56 ◼   ► and again, I think I would be fine

00:26:57 ◼   ► with an accessibility settings,

00:26:58 ◼   ► is as somebody who draws a lot,

00:27:01 ◼   ► Drawing just like anything else is an experience where you're multitasking.

00:27:06 ◼   ► You might be drawing on a canvas, but you might want to bring in some photos for reference or

00:27:11 ◼   ► something like that. And I really do enjoy, in that instance, working with the pencil.

00:27:16 ◼   ► For instance, in Procreate, you can drop colors from a palette into your drawing, or

00:27:24 ◼   ► now you can use drag and drop to drag your photo into the drawing. And if I already have the

00:27:31 ◼   ► the pencil in my hand, sometimes it's a pain to like, go from the pencil to flipping to touch to

00:27:36 ◼   ► going back to the pencil. So like, I get I get the reasoning behind it. But I'm also okay with a with

00:27:43 ◼   ► a switch. I could I could deal with that. As long as it's there somewhere.

00:27:47 ◼   ► I'll tell you what the most telling thing to me was a couple of days ago, I think it was like two

00:27:50 ◼   ► days ago, I went on a mini Twitter rant about the on screen, like, get the app button on that medium

00:28:00 ◼   ► shows up on like, when everybody, when you post like a blog post to Medium now, there's

00:28:05 ◼   ► like this stupid toolbar at the bottom that I hate. But now they put a button above the

00:28:10 ◼   ► toolbar that's like, "Open this in the Medium app." And I don't want to open it in the fucking

00:28:15 ◼   ► Medium app. I want to read it in a web browser where it's already open right now. The article

00:28:20 ◼   ► is right here. I'm reading it. So why are you telling me to open it in the app? And

00:28:24 ◼   ► I know, I know, it's all about engagement. Fuck you, Engagement. I hate engagement. But

00:28:29 ◼   ► But I went on this Twitter rant.

00:28:30 ◼   ► But I was on my phone, and I was so angry about this.

00:28:34 ◼   ► But I wanted to take a screenshot, and it was pure rage that made me want to tweet this.

00:28:43 ◼   ► So I wasn't even thinking logically.

00:28:45 ◼   ► But the easiest way to do it, in my mind-- I was on my phone at the time-- the easiest

00:28:50 ◼   ► way to do it was switch to the iPad Pro.

00:28:54 ◼   ► Open the same thing in the iPad Pro from AirPlay.

00:28:58 ◼   ► it to the Air, which was great and is one of those features that I feel like people

00:29:04 ◼   ► are sort of taking for granted at this point, but is kind of awesome if you have more than

00:29:09 ◼   ► one Apple device, where it's like you're looking at a website on your phone and you want to

00:29:12 ◼   ► look at it on this other device.

00:29:13 ◼   ► I want to get it on this iPad Pro and I want to take a screenshot and immediately just

00:29:18 ◼   ► circle this and make a big angry red arrow with a pencil.

00:29:22 ◼   ► It was so easy.

00:29:24 ◼   ► The easiest way to do it was to switch to the iPad Pro,

00:29:29 ◼   ► open it there, take a screenshot,

00:29:31 ◼   ► and it's right there, ready to be marked up.

00:29:34 ◼   ► And I just tap it, and I can immediately make my angry arrows

00:29:38 ◼   ► and say, fuck you, Medium, I hate this.

00:29:41 ◼   ► What is going on?

00:29:43 ◼   ► And then I'm one sharing sheet away from posting it

00:29:46 ◼   ► to Twitter and embarrassing myself.

00:29:48 ◼   ► But I-- and then I thought afterwards, I was like,

00:29:50 ◼   ► you know what?

00:29:51 ◼   ► That is a real selling point for the iPad Pro and the Pencil,

00:29:54 ◼   ► which is that it actually felt like easier to switch devices

00:29:59 ◼   ► to this thing with the pencil than to do it

00:30:01 ◼   ► on the phone itself or any other way.

00:30:05 ◼   ► Yep.

00:30:06 ◼   ► And now you have ventured into the mindset

00:30:09 ◼   ► of the people who are like, I want

00:30:10 ◼   ► a pencil for the iPhone Plus.

00:30:15 ◼   ► Again, I'm not against.

00:30:16 ◼   ► I could see it.

00:30:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:18 ◼   ► Obviously, if it didn't make it any thicker or heavier,

00:30:22 ◼   ► If the pencil happened to work on the iPhone,

00:30:25 ◼   ► it wouldn't be worse.

00:30:27 ◼   ► I can kind of see it.

00:30:29 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, no, I can absolutely see it.

00:30:32 ◼   ► And God knows, I've picked up my pencil

00:30:34 ◼   ► before trying to draw on the iPhone

00:30:35 ◼   ► and gotten cranky when it didn't.

00:30:39 ◼   ► I understand why it hasn't happened yet,

00:30:42 ◼   ► but I could also see it happening.

00:30:44 ◼   ► Anyway, I agree with you.

00:30:45 ◼   ► I 100% agree with you. - I used to be a big pencil.

00:30:47 ◼   ► I mean, this'll shock you.

00:30:48 ◼   ► I used to really, when I was in high school and junior high,

00:30:51 ◼   ► I really cared about which brand of pencil I had.

00:30:54 ◼   ► No.

00:30:55 ◼   ► Shocking.

00:30:56 ◼   ► You?

00:30:58 ◼   ► I was a big fan of the Dixon Ticonderoga number two,

00:31:01 ◼   ► which is not--

00:31:03 ◼   ► I don't know if you know anything about pencils,

00:31:04 ◼   ► but Dixon Ticonderogas used to be made in the United States.

00:31:08 ◼   ► And now they're not, and they're nowhere near as good

00:31:10 ◼   ► as they used to be.

00:31:11 ◼   ► They're sort of like some kind of cheap Chinese lumber

00:31:14 ◼   ► or something.

00:31:14 ◼   ► But the old school ones from when

00:31:17 ◼   ► I was in high school in the '80s and '90s were aces.

00:31:21 ◼   ► Like this was a pencil that you could like,

00:31:22 ◼   ► if you whack somebody in the head with it,

00:31:24 ◼   ► it would leave a mark.

00:31:25 ◼   ► It was a real pencil, pencil.

00:31:28 ◼   ► But I used to think when I was in high school

00:31:32 ◼   ► and I used pencils a lot,

00:31:33 ◼   ► I liked a pencil when it was about 2/3 of the way done.

00:31:38 ◼   ► Like it was a better size to me

00:31:40 ◼   ► when you got the pencil,

00:31:43 ◼   ► somewhere around 2/3 to 1/2 of the out of the box size.

00:31:50 ◼   ► And I can't help but think that if they ever

00:31:54 ◼   ► added pencil support for the phone,

00:31:56 ◼   ► I'd kind of want the pencil to be smaller.

00:31:59 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't think that it needs

00:32:01 ◼   ► to be the size of an HB pencil, which

00:32:03 ◼   ► is the size of the current Apple pencil.

00:32:07 ◼   ► But it doesn't also need to be the size

00:32:09 ◼   ► of a teeny tiny stylus.

00:32:11 ◼   ► I think the right feeling to me--

00:32:14 ◼   ► I'm holding a Relay FM a few years ago,

00:32:16 ◼   ► got all of its hosts this beautiful space pen.

00:32:20 ◼   ► And it's a pen that's designed to write in both directions,

00:32:23 ◼   ► and it's probably, I don't know, holding it in front of myself

00:32:26 ◼   ► like, I don't know, four inches, five inches long?

00:32:29 ◼   ► It's just enough to fit comfortably in a hand.

00:32:34 ◼   ► And I feel like that's the right length.

00:32:36 ◼   ► And then you could put it in your butt pocket and your jeans,

00:32:42 ◼   ► you know what I mean, and it wouldn't stick up.

00:32:44 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:32:46 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:32:48 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:32:49 ◼   ► I'm sold on the pencil.

00:32:50 ◼   ► I really do like it, and I'm not even an illustrator,

00:32:53 ◼   ► but I can kind of see it happening

00:32:56 ◼   ► for the phone at some point.

00:32:57 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, no question.

00:33:00 ◼   ► As I said, it's an inevitability.

00:33:03 ◼   ► It just depends.

00:33:04 ◼   ► They need to figure out the right way to sell it.

00:33:07 ◼   ► Because the last thing you need is Apple getting the,

00:33:12 ◼   ► you know, the headline,

00:33:14 ◼   ► "Oh, Apple's trying to compete with the Note,

00:33:16 ◼   ► "the phone that exploded."

00:33:18 ◼   ► And then we just run into issues.

00:33:21 ◼   ► - You know what, there's so many things to talk about,

00:33:24 ◼   ► but it's like they totally glossed over this.

00:33:27 ◼   ► But the notes app in iOS 11 now has,

00:33:32 ◼   ► it's a new, it's a little confusing

00:33:37 ◼   ► because they kept, and I think they did exactly right.

00:33:40 ◼   ► And obviously I'm the co-designer of an iOS notes app

00:33:45 ◼   ► that was abandoned, Vesper.

00:33:47 ◼   ► So I have very strong opinions on the design of a notes app.

00:33:50 ◼   ► I really, really love the way that iOS 11 note app has

00:33:55 ◼   ► evolved, in particular, this new data type of on the fly pencil

00:34:02 ◼   ► illustration in the note.

00:34:07 ◼   ► Now, prior to iOS 11, what you could do is you could say,

00:34:11 ◼   ► add a picture to my note.

00:34:14 ◼   ► And you have to hit the plus button,

00:34:15 ◼   ► And then you'd get a full screen, what would you call it,

00:34:20 ◼   ► canvas, where you could draw.

00:34:22 ◼   ► And you could draw whatever you wanted to.

00:34:24 ◼   ► There were a couple of tools.

00:34:26 ◼   ► You could have a marker or a pencil or a watercolor brush

00:34:31 ◼   ► or whatever you want.

00:34:32 ◼   ► Just wasn't good.

00:34:34 ◼   ► It was a good demo of the pencil support

00:34:37 ◼   ► in terms of the latency and seeing how you draw.

00:34:42 ◼   ► But the actual interface with Notes

00:34:44 ◼   ► wasn't that great because it was so modal.

00:34:47 ◼   ► It was like, yeah, had to go in this one.

00:34:48 ◼   ► You had to go in there or out of there,

00:34:50 ◼   ► and it just wasn't great.

00:34:51 ◼   ► Right.

00:34:52 ◼   ► Whereas now in iOS 11, you're in Notes.

00:34:55 ◼   ► You just make a note, or you're in a note already,

00:34:57 ◼   ► and you're typing.

00:34:58 ◼   ► And whatever you're typing, it's just like a regular note.

00:35:01 ◼   ► And then you just take your pencil and start drawing.

00:35:05 ◼   ► You don't have to add to hit a button or go into a mode.

00:35:08 ◼   ► You just start writing on the screen.

00:35:12 ◼   ► and it makes a little thing,

00:35:15 ◼   ► and then if you want to adjust the size,

00:35:18 ◼   ► it's all you can do is make it taller,

00:35:20 ◼   ► which is perfect, 'cause the thing that I think

00:35:22 ◼   ► is so genius is that it has,

00:35:24 ◼   ► the width is always the full width of the screen.

00:35:27 ◼   ► It's always just adjusting the height.

00:35:29 ◼   ► And so it doesn't try to flow around it

00:35:32 ◼   ► like a half-width image in a word processing program

00:35:37 ◼   ► where the text is supposed to flow around the side.

00:35:40 ◼   ► No, it's just full size in the note, full width, I should say, in the note.

00:35:46 ◼   ► And you just make it taller or shorter if you want, and you just draw.

00:35:49 ◼   ► But the thing that is amazing to me is that it indexes, if it's handwritten words, it

00:35:56 ◼   ► indexes those words and it works.

00:36:00 ◼   ► Really well.

00:36:01 ◼   ► No egg freckles.

00:36:02 ◼   ► My handwriting is atrocious.

00:36:05 ◼   ► I mean, seriously atrocious.

00:36:07 ◼   ► I don't know that there's anybody on the planet who can read it other than me.

00:36:10 ◼   ► I can read it.

00:36:11 ◼   ► I don't know if anybody else can.

00:36:14 ◼   ► And I wrote some stuff, and I wasn't trying to—I was writing in my—just not trying

00:36:20 ◼   ► to be particularly neat, just writing the way I write.

00:36:22 ◼   ► And then I searched for it, and it all—every single word that I wrote came up.

00:36:26 ◼   ► It was amazing.

00:36:27 ◼   ► Well, and on top of that, the fact that it's so quick, it's almost instantaneous OCR,

00:36:34 ◼   ► character recognition for people. But it's really impressive. And the fact that it's

00:36:41 ◼   ► searchable not just notes-wide, but system-wide. So if you write something down from six months

00:36:45 ◼   ► ago, you can theoretically find it.

00:36:47 ◼   ► In Spotlight.

00:36:48 ◼   ► Yeah, in Spotlight.

00:36:50 ◼   ► Yeah. What's the egg freckles joke again? I know it comes from Doonesbury.

00:36:54 ◼   ► It's a Doonesbury-Newton joke, way back.

00:36:59 ◼   ► What was it that the person originally wrote, though?

00:37:01 ◼   ► - What, what?

00:37:02 ◼   ► - Oh God.

00:37:03 ◼   ► - It's like everybody just remembers the egg freckles

00:37:04 ◼   ► and nobody remembers what they actually wrote.

00:37:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause egg freckles is just so weird.

00:37:09 ◼   ► - And then the other one that everybody remembers

00:37:10 ◼   ► is the Simpsons joke, which was,

00:37:13 ◼   ► the bully wanted to write beat up Nelson,

00:37:20 ◼   ► or no, not Nelson, what's the kid's name, whatever it is,

00:37:23 ◼   ► but instead of beat up whatever the kid's name was,

00:37:25 ◼   ► it said, eat up Martha.

00:37:28 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:37:29 ◼   ► Right?

00:37:30 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:37:32 ◼   ► Oh, it was Catching On was the original thing

00:37:36 ◼   ► that quote unquote egg freckles turned into.

00:37:38 ◼   ► - Right.

00:37:39 ◼   ► - Oh boy.

00:37:41 ◼   ► Yeah, no, it's quite impressive,

00:37:44 ◼   ► especially considering that OCR,

00:37:47 ◼   ► I reviewed a couple of OCR apps,

00:37:50 ◼   ► handwriting OCR apps last year,

00:37:53 ◼   ► and there's really only one that doesn't suck.

00:37:57 ◼   ► And like three of them are made by the same company.

00:38:01 ◼   ► So I don't know why it's only the one that works.

00:38:03 ◼   ► But I've been kind of clamoring for Apple

00:38:06 ◼   ► to integrate that for ages.

00:38:09 ◼   ► So I'm really happy to see that.

00:38:10 ◼   ► The other big thing in Notes,

00:38:12 ◼   ► which again, it's one of these things

00:38:14 ◼   ► that kind of slid under the radar

00:38:15 ◼   ► because there was just so much,

00:38:17 ◼   ► was the fact that screenshot,

00:38:19 ◼   ► or screenshot that scanning is built in.

00:38:22 ◼   ► OCR scanning is built into the iPad.

00:38:26 ◼   ► And it's easy because it uses AR.

00:38:29 ◼   ► It uses ARKit.

00:38:30 ◼   ► Right, so it's funny.

00:38:34 ◼   ► I've been talking about it on and off on a podcast.

00:38:36 ◼   ► But we just bought a new house a couple months ago.

00:38:39 ◼   ► And most of the paperwork-- and everybody always

00:38:42 ◼   ► says when you buy a house, there's

00:38:44 ◼   ► thousands of sheets of paperwork.

00:38:45 ◼   ► And they're not kidding.

00:38:47 ◼   ► There really is.

00:38:48 ◼   ► But most of it we did online.

00:38:50 ◼   ► And it was e-documents.

00:38:52 ◼   ► And Amy and I were like, oh my god,

00:38:54 ◼   ► can you even imagine what this was like before e-documents?

00:38:56 ◼   ► Because you're like, just click to sign, click to sign,

00:38:59 ◼   ► click to sign, click to sign.

00:39:01 ◼   ► Okay, you're good with this, send it,

00:39:02 ◼   ► and you click a button that says,

00:39:05 ◼   ► I authorized it by clicking this button.

00:39:07 ◼   ► It counts as my signature,

00:39:09 ◼   ► and it's going to the mortgage company

00:39:11 ◼   ► or whatever the hell, wherever the hell these things go.

00:39:14 ◼   ► And in the old days, you had to physically sign it

00:39:17 ◼   ► and send a courier or fax it or something.

00:39:20 ◼   ► But there's still, even today,

00:39:22 ◼   ► there still were a number of documents that had to be physically signed and do it.

00:39:27 ◼   ► I mean, I don't have a fucking fax machine.

00:39:30 ◼   ► I mean, who the hell has a fax machine anymore?

00:39:32 ◼   ► Cool. Yeah, exactly.

00:39:33 ◼   ► So what I would do is I would put my phone over this piece of paper on a table and

00:39:40 ◼   ► try to get the light right and make sure that the phone isn't casting a shadow over

00:39:44 ◼   ► the thing but have it perfectly square over the thing.

00:39:48 ◼   ► So I didn't want it to look like I took a picture of a photo.

00:39:51 ◼   ► I wanted it to look like I scanned the document.

00:39:54 ◼   ► I wanted it to look good.

00:39:56 ◼   ► I'm sure that if I just took it off center

00:40:01 ◼   ► and it didn't matter, it would still count.

00:40:03 ◼   ► But I wanted it to look good.

00:40:04 ◼   ► But now the built-in feature does the right thing

00:40:08 ◼   ► automatically from any angle.

00:40:10 ◼   ► It's crazy.

00:40:12 ◼   ► Absolutely crazy. - While we're talking,

00:40:14 ◼   ► while we were talking, I literally just picked up my iPad

00:40:18 ◼   ► and open the screenshot thing,

00:40:20 ◼   ► and sitting from the desk,

00:40:22 ◼   ► just snapped a picture of an invitation for our wedding,

00:40:26 ◼   ► sitting over on the side of the desk,

00:40:28 ◼   ► propped up at an angle, so I'm not even at,

00:40:31 ◼   ► like, I'm at a 2/3 view here.

00:40:35 ◼   ► It was able to instantly get it within like,

00:40:38 ◼   ► I don't know, half a second.

00:40:40 ◼   ► It's ridiculous.

00:40:43 ◼   ► I'm like, I don't understand.

00:40:46 ◼   ► The ARKit team, really, they have to be given

00:40:51 ◼   ► a huge round of applause.

00:40:53 ◼   ► And the really sad thing is no one's going to appreciate

00:40:57 ◼   ► the genius of what ARKit has put together

00:41:01 ◼   ► and the startup that Apple bought from which it's based.

00:41:06 ◼   ► No one's going to appreciate it for another year or two

00:41:08 ◼   ► until we actually see the stuff paying off.

00:41:12 ◼   ► But screenshots is a really good early example of it.

00:41:16 ◼   ► - A real world one.

00:41:17 ◼   ► - The scanned documents are amazing.

00:41:19 ◼   ► - They are.

00:41:20 ◼   ► - It really looks as good as a photocopy.

00:41:23 ◼   ► Like from a terrific photocopy,

00:41:25 ◼   ► you know, like a high-end photocopier.

00:41:27 ◼   ► It's like as good or better.

00:41:29 ◼   ► And you don't have to aim it at all.

00:41:32 ◼   ► In fact, it looks better if you don't put the camera over it

00:41:35 ◼   ► because you're less likely to get a shadow

00:41:38 ◼   ► over the document.

00:41:38 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:41:39 ◼   ► - Absolutely crazy.

00:41:41 ◼   ► Like of all the things, you know,

00:41:44 ◼   ► that the narrative of that these devices are replacing

00:41:48 ◼   ► all of consumer electronics,

00:41:50 ◼   ► like they've replaced standalone cameras,

00:41:54 ◼   ► they've replaced tape recorders, you name it.

00:41:59 ◼   ► But the fact that they've replaced fax machines now

00:42:01 ◼   ► is kind of amazing.

00:42:03 ◼   ► - Well, think about how big and bulky

00:42:06 ◼   ► those things used to be, right?

00:42:08 ◼   ► Where it's just, I mean, you had to have what,

00:42:09 ◼   ► a built-in modem and a scanner in one,

00:42:12 ◼   ► and now that's all, that's, yeah.

00:42:14 ◼   ► and a tiny little piece of technology.

00:42:16 ◼   ► Yeah, it's crazy, it really is.

00:42:21 ◼   ► (Dave laughs)

00:42:24 ◼   ► My words are failing me,

00:42:25 ◼   ► because I'm still staring at the screenshot.

00:42:28 ◼   ► - So have you installed iOS 11 on your iPad yet?

00:42:33 ◼   ► - I have.

00:42:34 ◼   ► I did that almost immediately after getting it.

00:42:37 ◼   ► 'Cause I'm a stupid, stupid human being.

00:42:39 ◼   ► - No, I was so torn.

00:42:41 ◼   ► I wrote it in my review.

00:42:42 ◼   ► I was very honest.

00:42:43 ◼   ► I never lie on Daring Fireball.

00:42:46 ◼   ► I never lie, period, to tell you the truth.

00:42:48 ◼   ► - Honest, honest, John?

00:42:50 ◼   ► - Just like our president.

00:42:51 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:42:52 ◼   ► - Oh.

00:42:53 ◼   ► - Well, but saying that I never lie,

00:42:55 ◼   ► it sounds like, wow, that's something

00:42:56 ◼   ► that people who lie a lot say.

00:42:58 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:43:00 ◼   ► I actually don't.

00:43:00 ◼   ► It's like, in my adult life,

00:43:03 ◼   ► I've actually, a great way to live your life

00:43:05 ◼   ► is just never lie, and it's kind of liberating.

00:43:09 ◼   ► You just never say anything that's not true.

00:43:11 ◼   ► We'll get back to that when we talk about Tony Fidell and Phil Schiller at the end of

00:43:16 ◼   ► the show.

00:43:18 ◼   ► I got the review unit and they give you a little thing you have to sign.

00:43:25 ◼   ► Monday is the embargo.

00:43:27 ◼   ► And technically you're not supposed to do something like install a developer beta on

00:43:33 ◼   ► a review unit.

00:43:34 ◼   ► And you're certainly not supposed to review the thing.

00:43:38 ◼   ► They don't tell you that.

00:43:39 ◼   ► They don't say like, whatever you do,

00:43:40 ◼   ► don't install iOS 11 on this.

00:43:43 ◼   ► But it's kind of understood.

00:43:45 ◼   ► And I also feel like there's a certain fairness.

00:43:49 ◼   ► If you go to the Apple Store today

00:43:55 ◼   ► and buy the new iPad Pro,

00:43:57 ◼   ► you get it and it's running iOS 10.3.

00:44:00 ◼   ► And therefore, that is what I,

00:44:02 ◼   ► as somebody reviewing the product,

00:44:04 ◼   ► should be telling you about.

00:44:08 ◼   ► But that said, after seeing iOS 11 last week,

00:44:13 ◼   ► it was killing me.

00:44:15 ◼   ► Amy and I were flying back east from San Francisco

00:44:20 ◼   ► last Friday, and my device for the plane,

00:44:25 ◼   ► for the transcontinental flight,

00:44:27 ◼   ► was the review unit iPad Pro.

00:44:30 ◼   ► And I kept swiping up from the,

00:44:32 ◼   ► I was already in the habit,

00:44:34 ◼   ► just from being in the hands-on area,

00:44:36 ◼   ► I was already trying to use,

00:44:38 ◼   ► I'm like, oh my God, this is insane.

00:44:41 ◼   ► I cannot, I have to install iOS 11 on this.

00:44:46 ◼   ► I've already used this.

00:44:47 ◼   ► I haven't owned a device with this operating system yet,

00:44:50 ◼   ► and I already have the habit of trying to use it

00:44:52 ◼   ► to get iMessages up.

00:44:55 ◼   ► So yeah, and once I did, it was like, oh my God.

00:45:00 ◼   ► And I wrote my, it's one of my favorite lines

00:45:02 ◼   ► I've written in a long time,

00:45:03 ◼   ► it. I just feel like one of my hands has been untied from behind my back. I feel like for the

00:45:10 ◼   ► last couple of years, every time I've used an iPad in any context, whether I'm reviewing a new one

00:45:16 ◼   ► or just using my own personal iPad, I have felt like I've had a hand tied behind my back. This

00:45:23 ◼   ► device can obviously do more than I'm doing with it in terms of, "Hey, I'm watching a baseball game,

00:45:30 ◼   ► but I'm getting text messages from my friend,

00:45:33 ◼   ► why isn't it easier to do both of these?

00:45:36 ◼   ► Keep the video up and have iMessages on screen for a moment.

00:45:41 ◼   ► Show me my tweets too. Why can't I look at all three?

00:45:45 ◼   ► It has felt like I've been hamstrung and all of a sudden,

00:45:50 ◼   ► once I have the Beta on it,

00:45:52 ◼   ► I've never felt like that before.

00:45:54 ◼   ► Like we're putting the iOS 11 Beta as buggy as it is,

00:46:00 ◼   ► and it is as buggy as the first developer beta should be.

00:46:05 ◼   ► - Should be.

00:46:06 ◼   ► - Right, it still feels like I'm 10 times more productive.

00:46:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, I completely agree, and it's why that I,

00:46:13 ◼   ► normally I do not install developer betas

00:46:17 ◼   ► on brand new hardware, because you have that little bit

00:46:21 ◼   ► where the brand new hardware is so fast and so delightful

00:46:24 ◼   ► 'cause you haven't put all your crud on it yet.

00:46:27 ◼   ► But no, I immediately went to it

00:46:29 ◼   ► because I spent the entire week last week switching between our review unit of the 10.5

00:46:34 ◼   ► and my 9.7, which of course had iOS 11 on it the second that I was able to install it,

00:46:40 ◼   ► and just switching between the two of those.

00:46:43 ◼   ► Again, like you said, I kept on going to the 10.5 and trying to do things that I had gotten

00:46:48 ◼   ► instantly comfortable with on the 9.7 and being unable to and being very disappointed

00:46:55 ◼   ► by it.

00:46:56 ◼   ► And on top of that, I really wanted to see just like the multitasking features work pretty

00:47:02 ◼   ► well on the 9.7.

00:47:04 ◼   ► Again, even as a developer beta, they work with decent speed, but I really wanted to

00:47:10 ◼   ► see the way that the animations looked and everything else with the promotion technology,

00:47:15 ◼   ► because we haven't even really talked about that.

00:47:21 ◼   ► I also feel that--

00:47:24 ◼   ► and I kind of knew that it wasn't coming,

00:47:27 ◼   ► or at least I really didn't think it was coming.

00:47:29 ◼   ► But like a week before WWDC, I wrote, hey,

00:47:32 ◼   ► why not put a trackpad on a smart keyboard cover?

00:47:35 ◼   ► And I kind of--

00:47:36 ◼   ► I didn't write it--

00:47:37 ◼   ► and again, if anybody thought I was writing it

00:47:39 ◼   ► because I wink, wink, nudge, nudge, knew that it was coming,

00:47:42 ◼   ► it was the opposite.

00:47:43 ◼   ► I kind of knew that it wasn't coming,

00:47:45 ◼   ► but I still kind of wish that it had a trackpad for text editing.

00:47:50 ◼   ► But I will say this, that along the lines of that, where the logic of it is, hey, if

00:47:55 ◼   ► you have the iPad on the smart keyboard cover and your hands are in that, you know, on the

00:48:00 ◼   ► home rows key, your hands are already in this position.

00:48:04 ◼   ► Reaching up and touching the screen is sort of breaking that thing.

00:48:08 ◼   ► But doing the thing where you just go to the bottom of the screen and swipe up to get the

00:48:14 ◼   ► multitasking doc, your fingers are right there already.

00:48:19 ◼   ► It is super convenient.

00:48:21 ◼   ► And so in terms of that whole argument of, hey, if you're in laptop mode, poking at the

00:48:28 ◼   ► screen is sort of ergonomically problematic, the dock in iPad iOS is actually like the

00:48:38 ◼   ► least problematic motion you can make because your finger, it's like the quickest thing

00:48:44 ◼   ► you could possibly do on the screen when you're on the keyboard.

00:48:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, and the beauty of it,

00:48:50 ◼   ► again, speaking of teams to give hats off to,

00:48:55 ◼   ► the Springboard team and the multitasking team

00:48:58 ◼   ► really did a number and a way of figuring out a way

00:49:03 ◼   ► to integrate all of this while still making all of it

00:49:08 ◼   ► feel like a natural progression from what has come before.

00:49:13 ◼   ► We've already gotten comfortable with the idea

00:49:15 ◼   ► of swiping up for control center, right?

00:49:17 ◼   ► So it's just, now it's just the difference

00:49:19 ◼   ► between a little swipe enters the dock,

00:49:21 ◼   ► and then if you continue swiping,

00:49:22 ◼   ► this is the beautiful thing, right?

00:49:24 ◼   ► If you continue that swiping, you get the new app switcher,

00:49:27 ◼   ► which is basically control center on steroids,

00:49:30 ◼   ► which, you know, with custom control center

00:49:33 ◼   ► is something that I know a lot of people

00:49:34 ◼   ► have been asking for for a while,

00:49:35 ◼   ► and it really comes into its own here.

00:49:38 ◼   ► But it just, it feels so natural to be like,

00:49:42 ◼   ► yeah, I'm typing, oh, I wanna pull up an app.

00:49:45 ◼   ► All I have to do is, as you said, move like half an inch,

00:49:49 ◼   ► tap and hold the app, wait until it starts,

00:49:51 ◼   ► it pulls forward the same way that like tvOS

00:49:54 ◼   ► has the parallax shimmer to it.

00:49:59 ◼   ► And then you literally just have to like toss it

00:50:01 ◼   ► right up on the left or the right side of the screen.

00:50:03 ◼   ► You don't even have to like move it all the way

00:50:05 ◼   ► to the top of the screen and then position it.

00:50:08 ◼   ► Like it becomes a very quick flick and switch

00:50:12 ◼   ► more quickly than you'd anticipate.

00:50:14 ◼   ► - Right, you just kind of vaguely gesture

00:50:20 ◼   ► in the direction you want it to go,

00:50:21 ◼   ► and it just goes there.

00:50:23 ◼   ► And it just obeys your commands.

00:50:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, which is awesome.

00:50:28 ◼   ► - I think it's a really, really clever design.

00:50:31 ◼   ► I really like it.

00:50:32 ◼   ► And it's funny to me how visually

00:50:36 ◼   ► it pays homage to the macOS dock.

00:50:41 ◼   ► But to me, interaction-wise, it's very different,

00:50:45 ◼   ► because the macOS doc doesn't really--

00:50:49 ◼   ► you either have it on screen all the time or you don't,

00:50:51 ◼   ► but it doesn't--

00:50:53 ◼   ► it's not like--

00:50:54 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:50:54 ◼   ► It's not reactive in the same way.

00:50:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:58 ◼   ► And the way that you drag apps out of it is--

00:51:02 ◼   ► and you were saying that we didn't talk about promotion

00:51:05 ◼   ► yet, but it's uncanny the way that you just

00:51:11 ◼   ► tap the icon for messages and quick flick it out

00:51:14 ◼   ► in the way that the icon turns into the window

00:51:18 ◼   ► that you're going to have on the side

00:51:19 ◼   ► at 100% fidelity as you flick your finger.

00:51:26 ◼   ► - Ah, it feels, so you remember the initial,

00:51:31 ◼   ► when Steve Jobs is talking about how everything just feels,

00:51:36 ◼   ► I'm not sure if he used the word lickable,

00:51:38 ◼   ► But when he was talking about just the reaction of touching the screen and

00:51:43 ◼   ► being excited about being able to manipulate objects,

00:51:46 ◼   ► I get the same kind of giddiness that I got from initially playing with iOS,

00:51:50 ◼   ► playing with the multitasking.

00:51:51 ◼   ► Like just, I will sometimes when I'm bored, I've found myself, or

00:51:56 ◼   ► not even bored, but waiting for something to render.

00:51:58 ◼   ► I find myself just flicking apps around and going from slide over and

00:52:02 ◼   ► pulling it down.

00:52:03 ◼   ► Just it's a comfortable movement.

00:52:06 ◼   ► It's really enjoyable.

00:52:07 ◼   ► And as you said, on promotion, or on the 10.5 and the 12.9 with promotion, it just, it flies.

00:52:14 ◼   ► It doesn't, it feels like there is no latency whatsoever because there isn't between your

00:52:20 ◼   ► touch interface and what the screen is rendering.

00:52:24 ◼   ► They're inputting touch from the user at 120 hertz, and then they're exporting it and showing

00:52:29 ◼   ► it to you at 120 hertz.

00:52:31 ◼   ► So whatever you're doing, it's literally what the screen is doing.

00:52:34 ◼   ► I remember when Mac OS X was in beta, or even when 10.00 officially shipped back in 2002,

00:52:44 ◼   ► and I worked at Barebones Software, and my friend Jim Correa was one of the engineers there,

00:52:50 ◼   ► and how he works at the Omni Group.

00:52:52 ◼   ► But when the betas came out, and it was so slow, it looked so good,

00:52:57 ◼   ► and I think that's where Jobs said it's lickable.

00:52:59 ◼   ► It was describing that initial Aqua interface, but it was so slow.

00:53:03 ◼   ► And I remember Jim, we'd get like a beta and we'd put it on a high-end Mac, and we'd have a lot of icons in a finder view.

00:53:11 ◼   ► And Jim would just sort of drag the scroll bar up and down real fast. Like, just go up, down, up, down, up, down.

00:53:17 ◼   ► And you could see the shearing on screen, and Jim would just be like, "Ah, that's garbage."

00:53:22 ◼   ► Because you could just see it. But you'd go real fast, and it's like, well, of course, at this fidelity with this super, you know,

00:53:31 ◼   ► you know, thousand color icons,

00:53:36 ◼   ► of course it's not gonna be able to scroll in real time.

00:53:39 ◼   ► Whereas now, it's not even the indirect motion

00:53:43 ◼   ► of like scrolling a mouse bar up and down,

00:53:45 ◼   ► but literally your finger going up and down,

00:53:47 ◼   ► and just sitting there flicking the screen

00:53:49 ◼   ► up and down, up and down, up and down,

00:53:51 ◼   ► and having it track your finger 100%,

00:53:54 ◼   ► just like you're dragging a piece of paper on a desk

00:53:56 ◼   ► is kind of amazing.

00:53:58 ◼   ► - It's such a nice feeling.

00:54:01 ◼   ► It's such a, it is confusing your brain

00:54:05 ◼   ► in a way that's kind of wonderful.

00:54:07 ◼   ► Because your brain, like it feels like

00:54:09 ◼   ► you're tactilely moving something.

00:54:11 ◼   ► Despite the fact that it's just glass.

00:54:13 ◼   ► You know, I'm not moving a damn thing

00:54:16 ◼   ► except for pixels on a screen.

00:54:18 ◼   ► But dragging, like I'm just swiping my home screens

00:54:21 ◼   ► back and forth with four fingers right now.

00:54:24 ◼   ► And it just, it feels like I'm moving things.

00:54:26 ◼   ► My brain is thoroughly convinced.

00:54:28 ◼   ► - It's nice.

00:54:29 ◼   ► I overuse that word, I think, when I review recent Apple products, but I don't know what

00:54:35 ◼   ► other word to use, that they're making things nicer.

00:54:43 ◼   ► It's not really a tech thing.

00:54:45 ◼   ► There is serious engineering that goes into it and the integration between the hardware

00:54:51 ◼   ► to have the screen physically, technically be able to be driven at 120 hertz and to have

00:54:57 ◼   ► the software in the OS to actually do it and to do the really cool thing which is dynamically

00:55:05 ◼   ► adjust the refresh rate so that if you're watching a 24 frames per second video it'll

00:55:09 ◼   ► actually only update at 24 hertz because you don't need the other one.

00:55:15 ◼   ► In fact, in addition to saving battery, it actually makes the video look better because

00:55:19 ◼   ► you're not doing a pull down and getting interstitial frames that are interpolated.

00:55:24 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm gonna pause you there because there's some really, really cool tech in that regard.

00:55:30 ◼   ► Have you ever, have you done the demo yet where you put a movie side by side with scrolling?

00:55:35 ◼   ► No, I haven't really.

00:55:37 ◼   ► So this is where it gets really cool, right? So the way that you, like you normally watch a

00:55:43 ◼   ► movie when you're watching at a screen that doesn't do a 3D2 pull down, when it when it

00:55:47 ◼   ► It divides equally.

00:55:49 ◼   ► You normally watch a movie at somewhere between 48 hertz and I think 72 or maybe 96.

00:55:57 ◼   ► And it divides equally down to 24 frames a second because your eyes get like kind of

00:56:02 ◼   ► messed up if you just look at 24 screen refreshes.

00:56:08 ◼   ► So what promotion does when you have video next to something that's 120 hertz, unlike

00:56:14 ◼   ► Like the televisions, right, where if you show slow-mo mode, right, you show sports

00:56:19 ◼   ► mode, it just makes the video look really super high speed unless you manually change

00:56:23 ◼   ► it.

00:56:24 ◼   ► Promotion, when you have two things side by side, it intelligently downsamples the video.

00:56:31 ◼   ► It knows that it's video that you're watching, and it says, "Okay, this we're going to down

00:56:36 ◼   ► sample to sets of 24, essentially.

00:56:38 ◼   ► We're going to show you, you know, an image five times in a second so that your brain

00:56:43 ◼   ► thinks it's 24 frames a second, even though we're refreshing the screen 120 times. But

00:56:48 ◼   ► on the right side, where you're drawing, we're going to give you the full 120 screen refreshes.

00:56:54 ◼   ► So you can watch a movie or like use it as reference and it looks like a movie. But on

00:57:00 ◼   ► the right side, whether you're scrolling or drawing, it's as fast as the screen can allow

00:57:06 ◼   ► for so you have no latency and it's mind boggling.

00:57:10 ◼   ► It's crazy. It's like I said 20 minutes ago. It's the best. I think it's the best device

00:57:15 ◼   ► Apple's ever made. I really do, hands down. And it's not my favorite. It's not my favorite

00:57:20 ◼   ► Apple device ever made. But I do think it's the best. And I feel like that's sort of putting

00:57:28 ◼   ► on your big boy pants to be a reviewer is to be able to separate what you personally

00:57:34 ◼   ► prefer versus appreciating that this is the best thing

00:57:37 ◼   ► Apple, this is the most Apple-y thing Apple's ever made.

00:57:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's, well, exactly.

00:57:43 ◼   ► Even if you're not an iPad person,

00:57:45 ◼   ► even if you are a MacBook Pro person or an iPhone person,

00:57:48 ◼   ► yeah, and that's okay.

00:57:50 ◼   ► But what this should, like, the reason why the iPad,

00:57:53 ◼   ► the 10.5 excites me and the 12.9 excite me

00:57:55 ◼   ► as much as they do is, yeah, I'm an artist

00:57:58 ◼   ► and I really love the iPad form factor.

00:58:00 ◼   ► I love, you know, a lot of things about it,

00:58:03 ◼   ► But I also, you know, I care about my MacBook Pro very much.

00:58:06 ◼   ► I really enjoy using it on a day to day,

00:58:08 ◼   ► and there are things that make more sense on a Mac.

00:58:10 ◼   ► But what excites me is that if Apple is developing

00:58:14 ◼   ► all of this technology, the same, I mean,

00:58:17 ◼   ► you look back to what happened with Retina, right?

00:58:19 ◼   ► Where, when the iPhone, was it the 5

00:58:22 ◼   ► that came out with Retina?

00:58:24 ◼   ► - No, iPhone 4. - Or the 4?

00:58:26 ◼   ► 4, 4, 4, 4, that's right.

00:58:28 ◼   ► The iPhone 4 came out with Retina,

00:58:30 ◼   ► And Retina is something, when it first came out,

00:58:33 ◼   ► there was one person in my life

00:58:35 ◼   ► who was really excited about Retina.

00:58:37 ◼   ► And that was my boyfriend at the time

00:58:39 ◼   ► who was a comics artist.

00:58:40 ◼   ► And he's like, "I have been asking for this for two years."

00:58:43 ◼   ► And I'm looking at him and I'm like,

00:58:44 ◼   ► "I don't really get why it's better until you see it."

00:58:47 ◼   ► And then you're like, "Oh, this is amazing."

00:58:51 ◼   ► That's how I feel about all of this tech

00:58:53 ◼   ► is that it's all going to filter down into the Mac,

00:58:56 ◼   ► into the iPhone, into whatever Apple decides

00:59:00 ◼   ► to make in the future, whether that be AR goggles

00:59:02 ◼   ► or a car or a car interface

00:59:05 ◼   ► or something we can't even think of.

00:59:07 ◼   ► The fact that Apple is working on technology

00:59:10 ◼   ► that ostensibly, just like that screenshots feature,

00:59:14 ◼   ► you know, consumers were not asking Apple,

00:59:17 ◼   ► you need to make a screen with a higher refresh rate

00:59:19 ◼   ► because most people aren't gonna know what that means.

00:59:23 ◼   ► But Apple is very focused on making devices

00:59:26 ◼   ► that just feel better.

00:59:28 ◼   ► They feel less like screens in front of our hands

00:59:31 ◼   ► and more like physically tangible devices

00:59:34 ◼   ► that are part of our lives.

00:59:36 ◼   ► And that is, that's something that we can take advantage of

00:59:41 ◼   ► across the line, no matter whether you're a Mac person

00:59:43 ◼   ► or an iPhone person or an iPad person or a home pod person,

00:59:46 ◼   ► like this is better for you.

00:59:48 ◼   ► This is a good direction for the company to be going in,

00:59:52 ◼   ► caring about its users and actually seeing all of those

00:59:54 ◼   ► years of work pay off.

00:59:58 ◼   ► Very much so. I was very excited for retina years before it came out. I remember, I've told this

01:00:04 ◼   ► story before but it's worth telling again, where there was like a WWDC, I was like, I don't know,

01:00:09 ◼   ► maybe like 2005, 2006, but it was before the iPhone even existed. But there was a WWDC,

01:00:15 ◼   ► it was probably like 2006, where Apple made a big push on the Mac for what they called at the time

01:00:21 ◼   ► high DPI. And the gist was like, "Hey, stop drawing pixel for pixel icons. Make them like a PDF so

01:00:29 ◼   ► that they can scale." And it was as close as they ever come to saying what they're going to do,

01:00:35 ◼   ► because eventually we're going to make screens that have higher resolution. And I remember,

01:00:39 ◼   ► it was me and Cable Sasser from Panic, and we both got it instantly. And people were like,

01:00:45 ◼   ► "Well, what the hell are you talking about? The Mac's already beautiful." And Cable and I were

01:00:49 ◼   ► like, well, have you ever seen like a laser printer output, how the fonts, when you print

01:00:54 ◼   ► on a laser printer, they look better than they do on screen?

01:00:57 ◼   ► And they're like, yeah, because on the screen there you could see the anti-aliasing.

01:01:00 ◼   ► And we're like, exactly!

01:01:01 ◼   ► Like, imagine a screen that's like a laser printer.

01:01:05 ◼   ► And they're like, well, that's never going to happen.

01:01:06 ◼   ► And we're like, no, no, that's what Apple's telling us is going to happen.

01:01:10 ◼   ► And they're like, no, that's too...

01:01:12 ◼   ► That's not going to happen.

01:01:13 ◼   ► That's too hard.

01:01:14 ◼   ► And they quick, like, do the math.

01:01:16 ◼   ► And they're like, "Well, that would be like, you know,

01:01:17 ◼   ► four million pixels on a screen."

01:01:19 ◼   ► And we're like, "Yeah, that's what they're going to do."

01:01:21 ◼   ► That's what, and we thought it was coming like next year.

01:01:23 ◼   ► We were like, (laughs)

01:01:25 ◼   ► we were like, and famously, I swear, this is true,

01:01:29 ◼   ► like, cable got like panicked to do like,

01:01:32 ◼   ► like all of their apps were retina ready like in 2007,

01:01:36 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:01:37 ◼   ► like six years before the Mac had a retina screen

01:01:40 ◼   ► because it's probably half my fault.

01:01:43 ◼   ► - You knew. - Right.

01:01:44 ◼   ► because we got so excited because there was like

01:01:46 ◼   ► one session at WWDC 2006 that was like,

01:01:50 ◼   ► get ready for high DPI.

01:01:51 ◼   ► All right, let me take a break here.

01:01:54 ◼   ► - What's the hint?

01:01:54 ◼   ► - Let me take a break and thank our next sponsor.

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01:04:51 ◼   ► I don't know what else to tell you.

01:04:53 ◼   ► All right, what else do we wanna talk about?

01:04:56 ◼   ► There's so much.

01:04:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, so actually, you mentioned, you know,

01:05:01 ◼   ► figuring out retina based on WWDC sessions

01:05:04 ◼   ► from a few years back before it,

01:05:06 ◼   ► - Many years back. - I could have, yeah,

01:05:08 ◼   ► many, many years.

01:05:09 ◼   ► I kind of feel like there are a lot of breadcrumbs

01:05:15 ◼   ► in this year's WWDC about where VR and AR are going

01:05:20 ◼   ► with Apple and I--

01:05:22 ◼   ► - I think so too.

01:05:24 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:05:25 ◼   ► I just, I don't know if I have that much more to say

01:05:29 ◼   ► about that other than I'm really fascinated

01:05:31 ◼   ► with all of the technology that they dropped

01:05:35 ◼   ► in the dev sessions this year,

01:05:37 ◼   ► because I think quite a lot of it is,

01:05:39 ◼   ► again, setting groundwork.

01:05:40 ◼   ► I mean, APFS is another good example of something.

01:05:43 ◼   ► Obviously, it came to iOS last year,

01:05:46 ◼   ► and you talked a bit about it with Phil and Craig last week,

01:05:50 ◼   ► and now it's coming to the Mac.

01:05:51 ◼   ► But there's a lot in here.

01:05:54 ◼   ► ARKit, I mentioned ARKit already,

01:05:57 ◼   ► but VR is another really, really interesting thing

01:06:01 ◼   ► that comes along side by side

01:06:04 ◼   ► with Apple essentially saying, hey, external GPUs,

01:06:08 ◼   ► the thing that we've kind of naysayed for years and years

01:06:12 ◼   ► because it just wouldn't work well,

01:06:14 ◼   ► we're gonna be shipping developers a kit

01:06:17 ◼   ► that allows them to develop with an external GPU,

01:06:20 ◼   ► with the goal of people being able to buy external GPU kits

01:06:24 ◼   ► next year to use in VR.

01:06:27 ◼   ► And here are all of these tools

01:06:29 ◼   ► if you wanna develop VR games on the Mac,

01:06:31 ◼   ► which heretofore not possible.

01:06:34 ◼   ► And even though consumers, I mean, the earliest a consumer is really going to be able to play

01:06:41 ◼   ► any sort of VR game on the Vive, I mean, technically, I guess you can hook up a Vive to the highest

01:06:47 ◼   ► end iMac that's out right now.

01:06:49 ◼   ► But really, I mean, I think you're going to see more of a push and steam and everything,

01:06:54 ◼   ► the game's coming, starting in December and next year.

01:06:58 ◼   ► So it's just, I don't know, it's really interesting to see Apple getting on the bandwagon in this

01:07:04 ◼   ► way and positioning it from not from a hey consumers we know you love VR so here are

01:07:11 ◼   ► some machines to let you play VR but from a like developers do you want to work on you

01:07:17 ◼   ► know the tools that you really like working on to develop VR content and VR movies we're

01:07:22 ◼   ► going to give you those tools I what you can do I've said this I think with Ben Thompson

01:07:28 ◼   ► I think it was on a show but I've said it numerous times but the way to be right all

01:07:33 ◼   ► the time is not to pretend like you can be correct all the time with every decision you

01:07:40 ◼   ► make and every statement you make because the nature of being a human being is you're

01:07:44 ◼   ► going to be wrong sometimes.

01:07:45 ◼   ► You're going to make mistakes.

01:07:46 ◼   ► The way to be right all the time is to have an open mind and recognize your mistakes and

01:07:51 ◼   ► then just say, "Oh, I screwed that one up."

01:07:55 ◼   ► So if it's as simple as just me writing "Daring Fireball," if I post something and it's wrong,

01:08:01 ◼   ► way to be right all the time is to as soon as I find out that a post is wrong

01:08:04 ◼   ► post an update and say oh this is wrong I screwed up here's the correct thing

01:08:08 ◼   ► and it I'm I feel like what Apple's done with the GPU stuff on the Mac is exactly

01:08:17 ◼   ► what you want to see it it's a sign of a healthy Apple which is clearly they had

01:08:22 ◼   ► their eye off the ball for the last two years or so on Mac hardware and I feel

01:08:29 ◼   ► like a little bit, you know, maybe it was because they were at a high level focused

01:08:34 ◼   ► on the iPad and the iPhone especially, and maybe a little bit they were taking for granted

01:08:41 ◼   ► the Mac market and maybe a little bit they, you know, quote unquote, painted themselves

01:08:48 ◼   ► in a thermal corner with the Mac Pro. But they did. But the fact that they can, you

01:08:55 ◼   ► You know, like, I don't feel like it's worth raking them over the coals for the mistake,

01:09:00 ◼   ► given that they've clearly come back and said, "Okay, we're going to go all in on this."

01:09:06 ◼   ► And like you said, with the eGPUs, it's like, here's where the industry's gone.

01:09:10 ◼   ► And we clearly, in 2013, when we came out with that Mac Pro design, totally did not

01:09:16 ◼   ► anticipate that.

01:09:17 ◼   ► Like that 2013 Mac Pro, for all the pros and cons you can say about it, the one thing about

01:09:23 ◼   ► that clearly is not true, is that architecture did not

01:09:28 ◼   ► anticipate the rise of the GPU as effectively the new CPU,

01:09:36 ◼   ► right?

01:09:37 ◼   ► And the way that all of this machine learning

01:09:40 ◼   ► goes through the GPU, even though it's not actually

01:09:44 ◼   ► graphical at all, that's the thing that it's hard for me

01:09:48 ◼   ► to really get why that's the case.

01:09:51 ◼   ► I don't really understand it, but I know

01:09:53 ◼   ► that it's true that this massively parallel processing,

01:09:58 ◼   ► when you go through the machine learning,

01:10:00 ◼   ► like go through all of my photos

01:10:01 ◼   ► and try to find every one that's a picture of sneakers

01:10:04 ◼   ► or something like that,

01:10:05 ◼   ► it's more efficient on a GPU than a CPU

01:10:08 ◼   ► because it's meant to be parallelized.

01:10:12 ◼   ► They just didn't foresee it.

01:10:13 ◼   ► And now they're like, well, we get it now though,

01:10:16 ◼   ► and we're coming back in a big way.

01:10:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, and not just here's technology

01:10:22 ◼   ► that we kind of screwed up on and we're coming back on it.

01:10:25 ◼   ► But I think your point as to taking the Mac market

01:10:28 ◼   ► for granted and maybe taking pros for granted

01:10:31 ◼   ► and thinking, well, professionals aren't as big

01:10:33 ◼   ► of a market anymore, so do we really need

01:10:35 ◼   ► to put that much emphasis on it?

01:10:38 ◼   ► It feels to me a lot like the early Final Cut Pro 10 days

01:10:41 ◼   ► where they release this new thing and they're like,

01:10:44 ◼   ► right, okay, we're listening to you

01:10:48 ◼   ► and let's show you how much we're listening to you

01:10:51 ◼   ► and where that's going.

01:10:52 ◼   ► And the interesting thing about this WWDC for me in terms of like the overall story,

01:10:59 ◼   ► the where Apple's going story, is the refocus very much so on pros and developers

01:11:05 ◼   ► without necessarily abandoning what makes its consumer hardware so great.

01:11:10 ◼   ► They have managed to find like a really nice line straddle where they can give all of this,

01:11:17 ◼   ► again, this amazing tech that's going to help your average user,

01:11:21 ◼   ► but it's really designed for professionals.

01:11:24 ◼   ► Yeah, ARKit is a great example of that, right?

01:11:26 ◼   ► Because I don't think that they really announced anything Apple--

01:11:30 ◼   ► well, the only thing I can think of that they announced that is, like,

01:11:34 ◼   ► Apple-made that consumers will use is the feature we were just talking about a while ago

01:11:39 ◼   ► about the scanning documents, which is ARKit to get the angle squared up.

01:11:47 ◼   ► Other than that though, the ARKit is really just more,

01:11:50 ◼   ► here's the great framework and we're giving it to you,

01:11:54 ◼   ► the developers, and you guys come up with the ideas,

01:11:57 ◼   ► you know, like better Pokemon Go, you know,

01:12:02 ◼   ► which is obviously silly, but it clearly looks--

01:12:05 ◼   ► - But it's powerful.

01:12:06 ◼   ► - It looks so much better, right?

01:12:08 ◼   ► - It really does.

01:12:09 ◼   ► It's nice to have, you know, the Pokemon sized properly

01:12:11 ◼   ► in regards to the background,

01:12:13 ◼   ► like as silly and little as that is,

01:12:15 ◼   ► or one of the great ridiculous demos that I saw floating around the internet this week,

01:12:21 ◼   ► someone built a 3D model of the Titanic and was able to map it to water. And there's just this

01:12:28 ◼   ► nine second clip of someone panning, moving the camera up and down and side to side,

01:12:35 ◼   ► and basically seeing a virtual 3D model of the Titanic.

01:12:39 ◼   ► - Right, that's amazing. Somebody was talking last week, I don't even know,

01:12:43 ◼   ► it might already be shipping.

01:12:44 ◼   ► I don't know if it was an idea or not.

01:12:46 ◼   ► But clearly, this is going to happen,

01:12:48 ◼   ► and it's going to be on our phones soon with ARKit.

01:12:52 ◼   ► If you're at Ikea and you have a photo of your living room,

01:12:58 ◼   ► you'll be able to live--

01:13:01 ◼   ► what would this table look like if it was our dining room

01:13:03 ◼   ► table?

01:13:04 ◼   ► And you'll be able to see exactly what it'll look like.

01:13:07 ◼   ► Live scan it.

01:13:08 ◼   ► That's super useful.

01:13:11 ◼   ► or walk through tours, essentially being able

01:13:15 ◼   ► to virtually walk through a home

01:13:19 ◼   ► while you're, instead of having to visit

01:13:21 ◼   ► 20 different places.

01:13:23 ◼   ► Or here's a crazy one.

01:13:25 ◼   ► 360 cameras are one of these things

01:13:28 ◼   ► where I'm just kind of like, eh, you know, I'm not,

01:13:31 ◼   ► as of yet, until very recently, I'm like,

01:13:35 ◼   ► okay, this is cool and all, but is this really useful?

01:13:39 ◼   ► And my pal and yours, Andy Anatko,

01:13:43 ◼   ► came to a roller derby game recently and shot the game,

01:13:47 ◼   ► shot like 10 minutes of the game in 360

01:13:50 ◼   ► from the center of the oval.

01:13:53 ◼   ► And for people who don't know roller derby,

01:13:54 ◼   ► it's a game that's played on an oval track.

01:13:56 ◼   ► And it's basically a combination of sprinting and rugby

01:13:59 ◼   ► where you have players hitting each other

01:14:01 ◼   ► and then you're trying to race around a track.

01:14:03 ◼   ► So the action, there's lots of action happening at one time.

01:14:06 ◼   ► There's simultaneous offense and defense.

01:14:09 ◼   ► And the 360 camera was like seeing that footage,

01:14:13 ◼   ► and I just had to like pan through it on Facebook, right?

01:14:16 ◼   ► Because I didn't have an applicable AR way of holding it up.

01:14:21 ◼   ► But the 360 footage was fascinating

01:14:24 ◼   ► because I could see what was happening

01:14:27 ◼   ► at the back of the action versus the front of the action,

01:14:30 ◼   ► what was happening between the point scorers

01:14:32 ◼   ► and what was happening between the point scorer

01:14:33 ◼   ► of the opposing team without having to rely

01:14:37 ◼   ► on the person who was filming to like zoom in or zoom out.

01:14:40 ◼   ► - Right, it's a sport that's not really amenable

01:14:42 ◼   ► to TV style, you know, one 16 to nine rectangle frame

01:14:47 ◼   ► of action, no, you're exactly right though,

01:14:50 ◼   ► it's a perfect example because there's stuff going 360

01:14:53 ◼   ► degrees around the track at all times.

01:14:55 ◼   ► - Exactly, exactly, and the beauty of that, right,

01:14:59 ◼   ► and I'm thinking about, you know, all of this,

01:15:03 ◼   ► the beauty of it is that like right now we can,

01:15:07 ◼   ► we'll be able to look at those kind of things in AR

01:15:09 ◼   ► with a compatible app, you know, on an iPad, right?

01:15:14 ◼   ► Or on an iPhone, or you look at Apple's even own demo

01:15:16 ◼   ► of Peter Jackson's new software with the 12.9 iPad,

01:15:20 ◼   ► you know, holding up, watching the town get destroyed.

01:15:24 ◼   ► That's really cool, and it's a cool proof of concept demo.

01:15:28 ◼   ► But again, this is, what Apple cares about

01:15:31 ◼   ► is not that you're making apps for somebody

01:15:33 ◼   ► to hold up their iPad for three hours

01:15:35 ◼   ► and play a game in AR,

01:15:37 ◼   ► like Apple's thinking five years down the line.

01:15:39 ◼   ► Apple's thinking, all right,

01:15:40 ◼   ► well, forget about iPhones and iPads.

01:15:43 ◼   ► How do we incorporate this technology

01:15:45 ◼   ► into whatever's next, right?

01:15:47 ◼   ► You're not gonna wanna hold a 12.9-inch screen,

01:15:50 ◼   ► so what are we gonna do?

01:15:51 ◼   ► And that's Apple's deal.

01:15:53 ◼   ► But for Apple to be able to launch that kind of thing

01:15:56 ◼   ► in three, five, 10 years,

01:15:58 ◼   ► whatever the timeline ends up being,

01:16:00 ◼   ► they need the software, they need the bright ideas

01:16:02 ◼   ► and the brilliant ideas that are gonna get the,

01:16:05 ◼   ► your average Pokemon Go loving user to hop on.

01:16:08 ◼   ► 'Cause otherwise they're just making Google Glass, right?

01:16:11 ◼   ► They're making it a fun proof of concept

01:16:12 ◼   ► that has no reason or rhyme.

01:16:15 ◼   ► - What do you make of the fact

01:16:21 ◼   ► that they've already updated the MacBook Pros?

01:16:23 ◼   ► - I think that that's a, gosh,

01:16:30 ◼   ► I think primarily it's a, oh, well,

01:16:34 ◼   ► Thankfully, Kaby Lake is finally here,

01:16:36 ◼   ► so we're gonna shove some Kaby Lakes

01:16:37 ◼   ► into the new MacBook Pros.

01:16:39 ◼   ► And if we could have launched the new MacBook Pros

01:16:41 ◼   ► with Kaby Lake last year, we would have done it.

01:16:44 ◼   ► - But we couldn't. - But we couldn't

01:16:45 ◼   ► because Intel. - Right.

01:16:47 ◼   ► Here's what I think.

01:16:48 ◼   ► And I know it seems to me like the sort of typical

01:16:52 ◼   ► like damned if you do, damned if you don't,

01:16:54 ◼   ► where, and I get it, like if you just bought

01:16:58 ◼   ► a new MacBook Pro like four months ago,

01:17:00 ◼   ► it kinda sucks that there's new ones now,

01:17:02 ◼   ► But that's the way the computer industry used to work all the time, right?

01:17:06 ◼   ► There were always new machines nine months after you bought it, and so there was no way

01:17:10 ◼   ► to win.

01:17:12 ◼   ► You were lucky if you got six months with a top-of-the-line machine that was still top-of-the-line.

01:17:17 ◼   ► And so updating October released machines in June is sort of like a return to that.

01:17:24 ◼   ► But the way I feel is that this was a unique situation where the MacBook Pros were overdue

01:17:29 ◼   ► last year.

01:17:30 ◼   ► Everybody wanted new MacBook Pros last year.

01:17:32 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, they were overdue and they made the best ones that they could make given what was available from Intel and ship them

01:17:39 ◼   ► and now that they can make them a little bit better with Kaby like and get a little bit better battery life and you know

01:17:45 ◼   ► It's obviously not radically better. Like if you bought one of the ones that was released last October, you're not like screwed

01:17:51 ◼   ► It's not like you know

01:17:53 ◼   ► But I think it was worth not waiting until now to do it

01:17:58 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely. Well again, you look at the the overall picture of Apple doesn't like pros

01:18:05 ◼   ► Or Apple is abandoning pros without Apple just basically being like hey guys. Okay, we're we're going to give you this concession

01:18:12 ◼   ► We're gonna show you the MacBook Pro that we've been working on and no it's not the Mac

01:18:16 ◼   ► You know, I think honestly Apple would have liked to release those last

01:18:20 ◼   ► WWDC but the Kaby Lake chips just weren't ready with the the low power stuff that they wanted

01:18:27 ◼   ► So they had to wait and finally they're like, all right

01:18:30 ◼   ► Well, we can't release these with Kaby Lake but you know

01:18:33 ◼   ► We want to we want to make sure that people understand that we're not you know

01:18:36 ◼   ► We're not sitting on our laurels and twiddling our thumbs. We actually are working on great hardware

01:18:41 ◼   ► It's just maybe not as great as we would like it to be

01:18:44 ◼   ► I don't know I have a as somebody who cares more about the Mac than any other product that they make

01:18:49 ◼   ► I thought that this is a great WWDC even if it means that people who bought a Macbook Pro last October

01:18:56 ◼   ► kind of, you know, only got like seven or eight months of top-of-the-line life out of the thing. It's like, well, so it goes.

01:19:03 ◼   ► Yeah, it's, and honestly, it's not, as you said, it's not like it's such a big jump in

01:19:08 ◼   ► performance that now all of a sudden I'm looking at my 13-inch.

01:19:12 ◼   ► It's not the the original MacBook Air versus the 2010 MacBook Airs, right?

01:19:17 ◼   ► Where it's all of a sudden you go from a barely usable computer to a very usable computer.

01:19:22 ◼   ► My 13-inch that I bought in October is still a very usable computer.

01:19:26 ◼   ► It's still a great laptop, and I probably wasn't pushing it to the extent that I could anyway.

01:19:31 ◼   ► And the fact that it has Thunderbolt 3 and everything else, that's the really important stuff for the future-proofing down the line.

01:19:38 ◼   ► You talk about using the eGPU. I'll be able to use an eGPU on my machine from October.

01:19:44 ◼   ► I don't have to buy a machine from June to be able to do that.

01:19:46 ◼   ► So that's the important stuff, I think.

01:19:48 ◼   ► But the really interesting thing, I think this is the thing that's caught my eye and my memory is, well, Kaby Lake is all well and good, but jumping back to iPad for a second here, one of the things we didn't talk about with the new iPad Pros is the ridiculousness of the A10X.

01:20:08 ◼   ► And the fact that I basically have a computer here that's more powerful than, you know, my laptop from four years ago.

01:20:15 ◼   ► Yeah, it's crazy.

01:20:16 ◼   ► It's crazy.

01:20:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:19 ◼   ► It's absolutely crazy.

01:20:20 ◼   ► And I kind of hinted at it in my review,

01:20:23 ◼   ► but I actually feel that Apple has--

01:20:25 ◼   ► the combination of the incredible achievements

01:20:31 ◼   ► of Apple's in-house chip team and how good the A10X is,

01:20:35 ◼   ► combined with--

01:20:38 ◼   ► I don't want to say the word ineptitude, but--

01:20:42 ◼   ► the hiccups that Intel has had in recent years--

01:20:46 ◼   ► - Lack of innovation from Intel.

01:20:49 ◼   ► - But I actually feel that from a product marketing

01:20:52 ◼   ► standpoint, it's actually put Apple in a very hard position

01:20:55 ◼   ► because they really are totally committed to the Mac.

01:21:00 ◼   ► And I feel like they've shown it and they've really,

01:21:03 ◼   ► it's not just words anymore,

01:21:05 ◼   ► like with the product announcements with the MacBook Pros

01:21:08 ◼   ► and the new MacBook and especially the new iMacs

01:21:11 ◼   ► and super especially the iMac Pro

01:21:15 ◼   ► Super super especially the fact that they've said that the iMac Pro is not the Mac Pro that they talked about

01:21:21 ◼   ► Two months ago that that's still coming

01:21:23 ◼   ► Like there is committed to the Mac as they could possibly be and I feel like the high Sierra story is

01:21:29 ◼   ► Exactly what I wanted them to do. Just don't work on new stuff. Just sort of make it better

01:21:35 ◼   ► All of that said I really feel like the a10x is so good that they're they're in a hard position because they don't want to

01:21:44 ◼   ► denigrate Intel because Intel is an important partner for them and they don't want to denigrate

01:21:49 ◼   ► their own products, which the entire Mac line is based on the Intel chips. But the A10X

01:21:56 ◼   ► embarrasses Intel, in my opinion. I feel like the new iPad Pro is absolutely a slap in the

01:22:02 ◼   ► face. Intel should be ashamed of themselves that this device can't be made using Intel

01:22:07 ◼   ► devices. And it's not just the performance because obviously there are Intel chips that

01:22:13 ◼   ► can outperform the A10X.

01:22:15 ◼   ► It's the fact that it's a fanless, heatless--

01:22:18 ◼   ► it never gets hot, right?

01:22:20 ◼   ► So--

01:22:20 ◼   ► Not even warm.

01:22:21 ◼   ► Right, it never gets warm.

01:22:23 ◼   ► So given those constraints and how light it is

01:22:26 ◼   ► and the battery life it gets, there's

01:22:28 ◼   ► no way to make a machine like that with an Intel chip.

01:22:31 ◼   ► And the MacBook with the Core M3 is--

01:22:35 ◼   ► it's behind the iPad Pro, just in terms of sheer performance.

01:22:40 ◼   ► The only reason to choose it would be if you,

01:22:43 ◼   ► you know, for the reason that I would,

01:22:44 ◼   ► is that I prefer working on a Mac,

01:22:46 ◼   ► and I like Mac software, and I like the form factor,

01:22:49 ◼   ► but as a computer, just judging it as a computing device,

01:22:53 ◼   ► it is so far behind the iPad Pro, it's embarrassing to Intel.

01:22:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, it doesn't, and what is interesting to me

01:23:00 ◼   ► about that is, you know, Intel currently has the edge

01:23:05 ◼   ► on Apple for high-end chips, right?

01:23:08 ◼   ► Apple's not gonna be able to make an A series processor

01:23:11 ◼   ► that's gonna power an iMac Pro or even a Mac Pro yet.

01:23:15 ◼   ► Yet, that's the trick, right?

01:23:17 ◼   ► Like, I mean, maybe that's their announcement

01:23:19 ◼   ► for the Mac Pro, is they're like, yeah,

01:23:22 ◼   ► no, it doesn't run Intel, it just runs the A like 20

01:23:24 ◼   ► or something crazy like that.

01:23:25 ◼   ► - Or like it has like six 810X or something like that.

01:23:29 ◼   ► - Exactly, right, right. - That would be my bug.

01:23:30 ◼   ► And I wouldn't be surprised if that's the story, but.

01:23:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, they've just done,

01:23:36 ◼   ► and this entire team has just done such incredible work on silicon.

01:23:40 ◼   ► I mean, there's always the story to be said about, you know, Apple being able to make everything in-house

01:23:47 ◼   ► means that they're able to customize and really focus their CPU on what it needs to do,

01:23:54 ◼   ► as opposed to, you know, meeting the hardware specifications of 20 different computers.

01:23:59 ◼   ► But it's really, it is really staggering.

01:24:03 ◼   ► again, as somebody who maybe pushes the iPad, I have pushed my iPads in the past to 100%

01:24:10 ◼   ► capacity and I have tried just about everything that I can think of on the new 10.5 iPad to

01:24:18 ◼   ► try and push it to capacity, including running 3D intensive games and doing crazy stuff in

01:24:25 ◼   ► Affinity Photo, which by the way, people who have been looking for a Photoshop replacement

01:24:29 ◼   ► since the dawn of the iPad,

01:24:31 ◼   ► Affinity Photo is the Photoshop replacement.

01:24:34 ◼   ► And in fact, once you learn it a little bit,

01:24:37 ◼   ► I would argue that Affinity Photo is in some ways stronger

01:24:40 ◼   ► than Photoshop, which is a frightening thing to say.

01:24:43 ◼   ► But that's the thing, right?

01:24:46 ◼   ► It's like the iPad Pro for many years has been hamstrung

01:24:51 ◼   ► by the double whammy of like the processors

01:24:55 ◼   ► kept on getting more powerful in the iPad,

01:24:58 ◼   ► but they weren't still as powerful as they needed to be

01:25:01 ◼   ► to do certain things.

01:25:03 ◼   ► And the operating system was not necessarily

01:25:07 ◼   ► what pro users wanted to use

01:25:09 ◼   ► because there were the hand tied behind your back thing,

01:25:13 ◼   ► where it's just not quite what I want.

01:25:15 ◼   ► This series of iPad, this series of the A10X

01:25:20 ◼   ► and the design and iOS 11 in the fall,

01:25:24 ◼   ► This is Apple basically being like pro developers,

01:25:28 ◼   ► people who wanna do pro creative software

01:25:31 ◼   ► that takes incredibly intense rendering

01:25:34 ◼   ► and you wanna be able to work fast.

01:25:38 ◼   ► The iPad is now capable of doing this.

01:25:40 ◼   ► So why hamstring yourself with a Mac,

01:25:43 ◼   ► which in some cases is subpar for your work,

01:25:47 ◼   ► unlike in other professions

01:25:50 ◼   ► where I feel like the Mac is superior.

01:25:52 ◼   ► In some professions now, the iPad is the superior device.

01:25:57 ◼   ► And that's a really interesting story

01:26:00 ◼   ► for Apple to be able to tell.

01:26:01 ◼   ► Not that the iPad makes do for where a Mac could,

01:26:05 ◼   ► but you need an iPad to be able

01:26:08 ◼   ► to be the leader in your field.

01:26:10 ◼   ► That's the thing that's making me,

01:26:12 ◼   ► like that's what the A10X and Suruji's Silicon team

01:26:15 ◼   ► has basically opened us up to.

01:26:18 ◼   ► - And again, ProMotion is in hand with that, right?

01:26:21 ◼   ► - Yeah. - It's like, you know,

01:26:23 ◼   ► the graphics throughput on this device is insane.

01:26:27 ◼   ► It's absolutely insane.

01:26:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, the fact that, well, it's constantly pushing,

01:26:32 ◼   ► you know, the screen and doing it without any latency, right?

01:26:37 ◼   ► When doing high-intensity projects,

01:26:40 ◼   ► like the demo on stage of the guy making a movie poster

01:26:44 ◼   ► and doing seamless, you know, wave rendering

01:26:47 ◼   ► without any time, that's impressive,

01:26:50 ◼   ► and it's cool and stuff, but it really doesn't show

01:26:52 ◼   ► what the processor is truly capable of.

01:26:54 ◼   ► - The one where he did the hair recognition

01:26:57 ◼   ► around Johnny Depp for the poster though, that was--

01:27:00 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:27:00 ◼   ► - That's, and that's the one where I even wrote about.

01:27:03 ◼   ► I actually think that Apple strategically

01:27:06 ◼   ► had a third party do it, and he said it was four times

01:27:09 ◼   ► faster than on a desktop PC doing it on the iPad.

01:27:13 ◼   ► They had a third party say that because they themselves

01:27:16 ◼   ► didn't wanna say this thing is actually faster than a Mac

01:27:19 ◼   ► doing graphics-intensive things like this, that sort of, you know, select the outline

01:27:27 ◼   ► of a very complex, you know, Johnny Depp with Dreadlocks, Captain Jack Sparrow movie poster

01:27:35 ◼   ► thing.

01:27:36 ◼   ► Yeah, no, absolutely, because they don't, again, they don't want to insult Intel, they

01:27:40 ◼   ► don't want to get in trouble with any of their partners, but if a third party's like, yeah,

01:27:44 ◼   ► We use this and it's no slouch.

01:27:48 ◼   ► It's second basically to having John from Procreate

01:27:51 ◼   ► or Adobe come up and say the same thing,

01:27:54 ◼   ► but Adobe can't piss off its own partners.

01:27:59 ◼   ► - But it's kind of fascinating in conjunction

01:28:01 ◼   ► with this whole 10th anniversary of the iPhone and iOS.

01:28:06 ◼   ► We'll touch on that in the next segment of the show

01:28:10 ◼   ► with the book that came out.

01:28:11 ◼   ► But everybody's looking back at it.

01:28:13 ◼   ► And the whole story of the origin of iOS

01:28:19 ◼   ► with the creation of the iPhone was this, hey,

01:28:23 ◼   ► what should it be?

01:28:23 ◼   ► Should it just be an iPod that can make cell phone calls?

01:28:28 ◼   ► Should it be a new OS based on a very light embedded version

01:28:34 ◼   ► of Linux?

01:28:35 ◼   ► Or can Apple strip down Mac OS X to the point

01:28:43 ◼   ► where it could run on a pocket-sized device in 2007.

01:28:48 ◼   ► And the great achievement of that team

01:28:54 ◼   ► is that even people on the team thought

01:28:58 ◼   ► that's probably impossible.

01:28:59 ◼   ► We can't get Mac OS X to be at that level.

01:29:04 ◼   ► And they did it, and that's what made the original iPhone

01:29:08 ◼   ► such a mind-blowing, once-in-our-lifetime,

01:29:11 ◼   ► you know, epic moment in the industry.

01:29:16 ◼   ► But it was, at that origin, it was like,

01:29:23 ◼   ► I can't believe that they got this to the point

01:29:26 ◼   ► where it's actually usable and boots

01:29:28 ◼   ► in a reasonable amount of time and a performance is good.

01:29:31 ◼   ► But it was clearly slower than the Mac.

01:29:34 ◼   ► It was amazing that it ran at all.

01:29:36 ◼   ► And here we are 10 years later,

01:29:38 ◼   ► and they've gotten the iPad to the point

01:29:40 ◼   ► where it's actually more performant

01:29:45 ◼   ► than a consumer MacBook.

01:29:48 ◼   ► It's absolutely-- - Yeah, baseline laptop.

01:29:50 ◼   ► - Right, it has nothing like the original,

01:29:52 ◼   ► when the iPad came out in 2010,

01:29:55 ◼   ► you didn't buy it because it was faster,

01:29:57 ◼   ► you bought it because the--

01:29:59 ◼   ► - Because you wanted it.

01:30:00 ◼   ► - Right, it was all about the UI and the,

01:30:03 ◼   ► hey, I just love this style of computing

01:30:06 ◼   ► and I don't care if it's slower,

01:30:09 ◼   ► I don't need fast, I just need, I like this

01:30:12 ◼   ► lightweight mental model of interaction

01:30:16 ◼   ► with direct manipulation of stuff on screen.

01:30:19 ◼   ► But here we are today in 2017,

01:30:21 ◼   ► and it's actually the faster computer,

01:30:23 ◼   ► which is mind blowing to me.

01:30:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm looking at Geekbench scores right now,

01:30:28 ◼   ► and I just ran it on my 10.5,

01:30:30 ◼   ► and it's fun to look at the compute section of Geekbench

01:30:33 ◼   ► where it compares your device versus older devices,

01:30:37 ◼   ► And I'm looking at their metal score, their GPU score.

01:30:41 ◼   ► The iPhone 5S, which really wasn't that long ago,

01:30:43 ◼   ► the iPhone 5S had a compute score of 546,

01:30:47 ◼   ► and the 10.5-inch iPad Pro has a score of 29,445.

01:30:51 ◼   ► - That's crazy.

01:30:55 ◼   ► - Right?

01:30:56 ◼   ► - Or just look at the graphics performance,

01:30:58 ◼   ► where you take a webpage and just scroll up and down

01:31:00 ◼   ► real fast, just up, down, up, down, up, down.

01:31:03 ◼   ► On the iPad Pro, it looks like you can read it

01:31:06 ◼   ► as it moves up and down the screen,

01:31:08 ◼   ► and even like a high-end Mac, it's blurry

01:31:11 ◼   ► because it just doesn't have that sort of refresh rate.

01:31:14 ◼   ► It's absolutely crazy.

01:31:16 ◼   ► - It's the difference between wearing glasses or not.

01:31:18 ◼   ► The biggest, the processor wow for me

01:31:22 ◼   ► was not running all of those high-end tests,

01:31:25 ◼   ► but actually, I don't know if you've ever used Procreate,

01:31:28 ◼   ► but Procreate has a feature where after you do a drawing,

01:31:32 ◼   ► you can go to export, and you can export the drawing,

01:31:35 ◼   ► But you can also export a video that basically calculates

01:31:40 ◼   ► every single stroke you've made.

01:31:41 ◼   ► So you can kind of see like a fun little time lapse

01:31:43 ◼   ► of what you've drawn.

01:31:44 ◼   ► And those video exports, when I do like a long piece,

01:31:49 ◼   ► for instance, like I did the incomparable holiday card

01:31:51 ◼   ► a few years back, and it took like three, four,

01:31:54 ◼   ► five minutes to export it to, you know,

01:31:56 ◼   ► and it's, you know, the display resolution.

01:31:59 ◼   ► I've been exporting some of my Procreate projects,

01:32:02 ◼   ► including a project that I worked on probably

01:32:04 ◼   ► for seven, eight hours, and the export happens

01:32:06 ◼   ► in less than 15 seconds.

01:32:08 ◼   ► - That's crazy.

01:32:08 ◼   ► - It's just, that's the thing where like,

01:32:11 ◼   ► the first time I did it when I was with Renee,

01:32:13 ◼   ► Renee was like, "Did you just export a photo?"

01:32:15 ◼   ► And I'm like, "No, I exported a video."

01:32:17 ◼   ► - Did you suspect that it didn't work right,

01:32:19 ◼   ► like it was a bug?

01:32:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, oh yeah.

01:32:21 ◼   ► I was like, "Okay, Procreate's broken."

01:32:23 ◼   ► And then I went and I'm like, "Nope, nope, it's there."

01:32:25 ◼   ► That's, wow.

01:32:26 ◼   ► - It's absolutely astounding to me that at this,

01:32:31 ◼   ► to me so quickly, in just a handful of years,

01:32:34 ◼   ► it's gone from, look, use this device

01:32:37 ◼   ► if you prefer the mental model of this conceptually

01:32:41 ◼   ► simpler direct manipulation operating system

01:32:44 ◼   ► at the expense of performance,

01:32:46 ◼   ► because obviously a real Intel PC is gonna be faster,

01:32:50 ◼   ► to this point where it's like,

01:32:51 ◼   ► actually, the only reason to use a Mac is if,

01:32:56 ◼   ► the Mac is the one that has to make the excuse

01:32:58 ◼   ► for the software, right?

01:32:59 ◼   ► It's like you have to really prefer

01:33:01 ◼   ► the full PC operating system because the performance

01:33:06 ◼   ► is not the reason to use that device.

01:33:09 ◼   ► It's crazy. - But I think that's,

01:33:10 ◼   ► that's the best thing.

01:33:12 ◼   ► I mean, it's a long time coming,

01:33:14 ◼   ► but that's the position Apple wants to be in

01:33:16 ◼   ► because then they get to actually go back

01:33:18 ◼   ► to the philosophy from a few years ago,

01:33:20 ◼   ► which is the right device for the right task.

01:33:24 ◼   ► And it's like some tasks make more sense with the Mac,

01:33:27 ◼   ► and that's okay, and some tasks make more sense

01:33:29 ◼   ► with an iPad, and that's okay too.

01:33:31 ◼   ► There can be room for both devices.

01:33:33 ◼   ► It's just pick the one that makes more sense

01:33:35 ◼   ► for your work.

01:33:36 ◼   ► - Absolutely.

01:33:37 ◼   ► All right, let me take a break here

01:33:38 ◼   ► and thank our third sponsor.

01:33:39 ◼   ► It's our good friends at Squarespace.

01:33:41 ◼   ► Look, you guys know Squarespace.

01:33:42 ◼   ► It's where you go to make a website.

01:33:44 ◼   ► You can pick your domain name.

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01:33:50 ◼   ► Long story short, I'm not gonna,

01:33:52 ◼   ► I don't know what else to tell you about Squarespace,

01:33:53 ◼   ► but next time you need a website,

01:33:55 ◼   ► Just go there and try to build it at Squarespace first.

01:33:59 ◼   ► Just spend 30 minutes at Squarespace building a new website.

01:34:03 ◼   ► And I can almost guarantee you that you'll just parlay that

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01:34:19 ◼   ► Stop, don't start by making a new HTML document

01:34:22 ◼   ► and doing it that way.

01:34:24 ◼   ► Go to Squarespace and do it that way.

01:34:26 ◼   ► I told you a couple weeks or months ago

01:34:29 ◼   ► about a local restaurant here in Philly that,

01:34:31 ◼   ► just curiously, I went and viewed Source,

01:34:35 ◼   ► and lo and behold, their website was a Squarespace size.

01:34:38 ◼   ► Another one, just around the corner from me here,

01:34:41 ◼   ► there's a new pizza place that opened up,

01:34:42 ◼   ► and they have wonderful pizza.

01:34:44 ◼   ► It's called Rione, R-I-O-N-E.

01:34:46 ◼   ► So if you're here local in Philly, go to this place.

01:34:49 ◼   ► They have the most amazing pizza.

01:34:51 ◼   ► They also have an adorable website.

01:34:53 ◼   ► It's super cool.

01:34:54 ◼   ► And I thought, I wonder, and I went and viewed Source,

01:34:57 ◼   ► and guess what?

01:34:58 ◼   ► It's a Squarespace site.

01:35:00 ◼   ► So rather than wasting their time

01:35:02 ◼   ► paying somebody to build a fancy website or whatever,

01:35:08 ◼   ► all they do, they're just making the pizza,

01:35:10 ◼   ► and then they have a very cool, very stylish,

01:35:13 ◼   ► totally branded for the restaurant website,

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01:35:20 ◼   ► Don't waste your time building it on your own.

01:35:23 ◼   ► just go to Squarespace and all you have to do is design it.

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01:35:51 ◼   ► I got two other things I wanted to talk about, Serenity.

01:35:53 ◼   ► I wanted to talk about this book that's coming out,

01:35:57 ◼   ► Brian Merchant's The One Device,

01:35:59 ◼   ► and the excerpt that ran in The Verge.

01:36:02 ◼   ► And then I wanna talk about WWDC being in San Jose

01:36:07 ◼   ► and what we think about that.

01:36:08 ◼   ► So let's talk about the book first.

01:36:10 ◼   ► - All right.

01:36:11 ◼   ► - It's not coming out till next week,

01:36:13 ◼   ► so this podcast will come out before the book comes out.

01:36:16 ◼   ► But The Verge ran an excerpt a couple of days ago,

01:36:19 ◼   ► and it made some waves.

01:36:23 ◼   ► - Just a few.

01:36:23 ◼   ► - Particularly, and it was funny,

01:36:26 ◼   ► so I'm reading this excerpt the day that it came out,

01:36:31 ◼   ► and I'm reading it and I'm into it,

01:36:33 ◼   ► and it's like, wow, there's some stuff in here

01:36:35 ◼   ► that I didn't know before, this is great,

01:36:38 ◼   ► and I knew I was gonna link to it from during Fireball,

01:36:41 ◼   ► and there was this great little story from Greg Christie,

01:36:44 ◼   ► who's, I think he left Apple about two or three years ago.

01:36:48 ◼   ► He used to head up their human interface design team,

01:36:52 ◼   ► and his team came up with, more or less came up

01:36:55 ◼   ► with the original iPhone, the entire UI design.

01:37:00 ◼   ► And he had a great story about how they had

01:37:03 ◼   ► what he called tapas, little things.

01:37:08 ◼   ► There was like, oh, well, here's how you would,

01:37:10 ◼   ► we think on a little three and a half inch touchscreen,

01:37:13 ◼   ► here's how you would do contacts.

01:37:17 ◼   ► and an idea for, you know, here's how we think, you know,

01:37:21 ◼   ► we would do like a web view for the web browser or whatever,

01:37:25 ◼   ► but they didn't really have the whole start to finish,

01:37:28 ◼   ► here's exactly what you'll see when the phone turns on,

01:37:31 ◼   ► here's what happens when you tap this, here's what, you know,

01:37:34 ◼   ► and more or less Steve Jobs came to him,

01:37:36 ◼   ► it's like, these ideas are fine,

01:37:38 ◼   ► but I want the whole story.

01:37:40 ◼   ► You have two weeks, give me the whole story,

01:37:43 ◼   ► or I'm putting another team on this.

01:37:44 ◼   ► and they went into this, as Greg Christie calls it,

01:37:48 ◼   ► death march, but his team spent two weeks

01:37:50 ◼   ► living in this lab, and the place got all smelly,

01:37:54 ◼   ► and he had people sleeping at his house

01:37:56 ◼   ► 'cause he didn't want them driving home

01:37:58 ◼   ► 'cause they were so exhausted.

01:37:59 ◼   ► But in two weeks, they more or less came up with,

01:38:02 ◼   ► Greg Christie said, "If I could reproduce the demo

01:38:05 ◼   ► "we had at the end of that two weeks,

01:38:06 ◼   ► "you would recognize it today as an iPhone."

01:38:09 ◼   ► And I had this ready to go as my Daring Fireball post.

01:38:13 ◼   ► I'm going to block quote this little section of this

01:38:15 ◼   ► and say, go read this.

01:38:17 ◼   ► And then I went down a little further

01:38:18 ◼   ► and read the bit about Schiller.

01:38:21 ◼   ► And I was like, delete, delete, delete, select all, delete.

01:38:24 ◼   ► It was like, this is why I read the whole story

01:38:29 ◼   ► before I post.

01:38:30 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:38:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:38:35 ◼   ► - So the bit that got all the publicity was Tony Fidell,

01:38:40 ◼   ► former Apple executive who was in charge of the iPod hardware

01:38:44 ◼   ► and was in charge of iPhone hardware

01:38:49 ◼   ► in the original iPhone, was quoted extensively saying

01:38:55 ◼   ► that Phil Schiller was the lone person at the executive level

01:38:59 ◼   ► who was insistent that the original iPhone should

01:39:02 ◼   ► have a hardware keyboard like a BlackBerry,

01:39:06 ◼   ► and that it got to the point where there was a screaming

01:39:10 ◼   ► match and that Steve Jobs said something to the effect of,

01:39:14 ◼   ► "I'm sick of this shit. Get on board or get the fuck out,"

01:39:18 ◼   ► and kicked him out of a meeting. And then it was immediately followed by a

01:39:23 ◼   ► story by a guy named Brett Bilbray, who

01:39:28 ◼   ► wasn't quoted extensively. He was quoted in little snippets

01:39:33 ◼   ► saying something to the effect of that Phil Schiller

01:39:36 ◼   ► isn't a tech guy and understands things like a grandma and grandpa from middle America.

01:39:43 ◼   ► I think, so I think here's what I think happened. I think Tony Fidele shot his mouth off

01:39:53 ◼   ► and regrets it because it's since come out. The author of the book, Brian Merchant,

01:40:01 ◼   ► was on the Verge catch with Neelai Patel and says he has the entire interview with Fadel on tape

01:40:08 ◼   ► and went back and double-checked and everything he quoted him saying was on tape.

01:40:14 ◼   ► So the whole, what Schiller did though, I think it's kind of genius, is Schiller just said, "Not

01:40:21 ◼   ► true. Don't believe everything you read" in response to some random person saying, "Hey,

01:40:25 ◼   ► "Hey, Phil, is it true that you pushed this hard

01:40:29 ◼   ► "for a hardware keyboard?"

01:40:31 ◼   ► And in response to that tweet, Fidel tweeted,

01:40:34 ◼   ► "Hey, this whole story isn't true.

01:40:37 ◼   ► "I really value my friendship with Phil Schiller

01:40:40 ◼   ► "and my time working with him."

01:40:43 ◼   ► And this merchant has said, responded to that

01:40:46 ◼   ► and was like, "Well, I have you on tape saying this."

01:40:51 ◼   ► I feel like it's pretty clear what happened.

01:40:55 ◼   ► I think Tony Fidell was quoted accurately.

01:40:58 ◼   ► He said what he's quoted as saying,

01:41:00 ◼   ► whether it's actually true what he said is up for debate.

01:41:04 ◼   ► Debatable. Yeah.

01:41:06 ◼   ► Right? Long story short,

01:41:08 ◼   ► that's where we stand.

01:41:12 ◼   ► Is it true or not that this happened?

01:41:15 ◼   ► Who knows? Tony Fidell says one thing.

01:41:17 ◼   ► But I think it's so funny that Phil Schiller baited, you know, he...

01:41:22 ◼   ► Fidel tells this story that seemingly tries to make Phil Schiller look a little foolish, in hindsight at least.

01:41:30 ◼   ► And in just 44, in a 144 character tweet, Phil Schiller baited him into publicly making a shit out of himself.

01:41:37 ◼   ► [laughter]

01:41:40 ◼   ► Well, what is it?

01:41:43 ◼   ► Dish, grandma and grandpa, my ass.

01:41:47 ◼   ► I mean, Phil Schiller is many things.

01:41:54 ◼   ► Not intelligent is not one of them.

01:41:57 ◼   ► Or technically savvy is absolutely positively not true.

01:42:00 ◼   ► And I realize I'm coming at it from the perspective of somebody

01:42:04 ◼   ► who just had him on my show last week.

01:42:06 ◼   ► And so you can say, well, of course,

01:42:08 ◼   ► going to defend him because he's a friend of the show and he comes on your show, you know,

01:42:13 ◼   ► last three years. Put that aside, I'm telling you that I don't know anybody in the press. I mean,

01:42:21 ◼   ► Walt Mossberg came out. I mean, Walt's got no fucks left to give because he's retired.

01:42:26 ◼   ► He's retired.

01:42:28 ◼   ► Right. And Walt is like, if you, you know, I've talked to, he's probably talked to

01:42:32 ◼   ► Phil Schiller more times than anybody in the press combined. In fact, I would bet on it because I

01:42:36 ◼   ► I don't see how anybody else could have talked with Phil Schiller more times

01:42:41 ◼   ► than Walt Mossberg. And Walt is like, if you don't think Phil Schiller knows his

01:42:45 ◼   ► stuff, you're an idiot. Yeah, there's no question. I mean, you don't get

01:42:50 ◼   ► to where you are by being an empty head or an empty suit. So I know it's, you know,

01:42:56 ◼   ► I don't want to go too far in this book because it's not out yet, so I haven't