The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► So, uh, before I came down here to the old podcast dungeon, um,

00:00:04 ◼   ► Amy asked me, she goes, who's on your show this week? I said,

00:00:07 ◼   ► moltz. And she goes, oh,

00:00:09 ◼   ► and I just tell her, I said, hi to, I gave her a look and she laughed,

00:00:16 ◼   ► you know, she just gave that great Amy laugh. And she goes, honestly,

00:00:19 ◼   ► I don't know why I did. And I love moltz. She goes,

00:00:22 ◼   ► actually of all the boring people you have on your show,

00:00:24 ◼   ► moltz is one of the few I like to hang out with.

00:00:29 ◼   ► She doesn't want to listen to me talk. That's all like she doesn't know

00:00:32 ◼   ► It was a very good drink

00:00:34 ◼   ► But you know it was just like listen to me talk for like two hours or whatever

00:00:38 ◼   ► There's literally nobody who I could say who's on my show that she wouldn't go

00:00:43 ◼   ► Let's give that reaction to

00:00:46 ◼   ► I bet she wouldn't do it to serenity, but no no probably not and

00:00:52 ◼   ► You know maybe not if I had if I had somehow got ryan johnson back on the show yeah, maybe yeah

00:00:58 ◼   ► Yeah. That's still kind of amazing. That's isn't that still kind of amazing. That's still

00:01:04 ◼   ► really amazing. I tell I tell people like, I'm sometimes on the podcast on a podcast

00:01:09 ◼   ► that Ryan Johnson was on. Right? No, no, you know, I wasn't on the same time as he was.

00:01:15 ◼   ► But now I've mentioned it now I have to put it in the show notes and I have to dig it

00:01:19 ◼   ► up. It's there's I'm so I'm getting bad at just crossing things off my to do list. Do

00:01:27 ◼   ► Do you find that you're more organized or less organized or the same as when you were

00:01:34 ◼   ► younger?

00:01:35 ◼   ► Uh, probably about the same, which is not great.

00:01:38 ◼   ► I suspect that I'm getting worse.

00:01:39 ◼   ► Like I've been meaning to put those old episodes from when I was on the mule quote unquote

00:01:45 ◼   ► network into my RSS feed for the show so that they're there because I have them all.

00:01:50 ◼   ► They're not lost and you can get them now at the internet archive, which is such a wonderful

00:01:55 ◼   ► resource.

00:01:57 ◼   ► right now it's, you know, they're not really there. So I've had, I'm so proud of it. I

00:02:02 ◼   ► had Rian Johnson on my podcast and right now that episode at the peak of—

00:02:06 ◼   ► John: Oh, you can't get that one?

00:02:07 ◼   ► Michael DeMuth – Not through the feed. You have to go to the Internet archive. I really

00:02:12 ◼   ► ought to fix that.

00:02:14 ◼   ► John – That would be one. I would think that would be one that people would want to

00:02:18 ◼   ► hear. The first one with me on it, don't worry about that one.

00:02:24 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:02:26 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:02:27 ◼   ► I think I'm just rocketing.

00:02:30 ◼   ► I don't think I've had a shortage of crotchediness,

00:02:34 ◼   ► but I just feel like I'm getting an angry old man

00:02:38 ◼   ► at a frightening clip.

00:02:41 ◼   ► Today I had to go to the bank.

00:02:42 ◼   ► Daring Fireball is a LLC,

00:02:48 ◼   ► and every couple of weeks I write a check to myself.

00:02:53 ◼   ► It's all a little bit confusing because I'm signing a check John Gruber to John Gruber

00:03:00 ◼   ► and then endorsing it on the back as John Gruber and it all feels a little it all feels a little

00:03:05 ◼   ► shady you know what I mean like it just seems like I don't even know what check kiting is but

00:03:10 ◼   ► it seems like maybe that's it. I go and it it took like 15 minutes it's like I had to wait in the line

00:03:22 ◼   ► or as I say in New York, you do this physically and you have to go. I do because my bank has like

00:03:28 ◼   ► a stupid small limit on what you can deposit electronically. Like I can't, we can't deposit

00:03:34 ◼   ► more than like a $500 check or a $300 check electronically. You have to, so really what the

00:03:41 ◼   ► long story short is I should find a new bank is what I should do. Yeah. It also seems weird and

00:03:48 ◼   ► maybe there is a better way. Maybe I'm just a big dummy, you know, that there should be, you know,

00:03:52 ◼   ► my business account and my personal account are at the same bank and maybe there's a better way than

00:03:56 ◼   ► writing a check. I don't know. I guess. I have a sole proprietor, so I just, you know,

00:04:03 ◼   ► it all pretty much almost goes into the same pot. I mean, I have separate accounts, but it doesn't

00:04:09 ◼   ► really really matter as much for that situation. But even my credit union has a great iOS app,

00:04:18 ◼   ► And they don't, you know, I'm like, I've deposited checks of like, man, a lot, vast sums of money.

00:04:26 ◼   ► I don't know. Yeah, sure. You know, it just seems not that much. But yes,

00:04:32 ◼   ► it just seems like it would. I gotta look into it. I'm just it. But it's just one other one of

00:04:35 ◼   ► those items on my to do list, like figure out how to do banking better. And it's like just vague

00:04:40 ◼   ► enough that it never really feels like today's the day where I'm gonna spend all day. Yeah.

00:04:45 ◼   ► Yeah, but that's always the thing with the stuff that sticks down around the bottom of

00:04:49 ◼   ► the list is like that stuff tends to just never get done.

00:04:52 ◼   ► All right.

00:04:54 ◼   ► What else is new?

00:04:57 ◼   ► You order a HomePod?

00:05:00 ◼   ► I did not order a HomePod.

00:05:02 ◼   ► I'm waiting to hear.

00:05:05 ◼   ► My use case is pretty specific for it, I think, because I don't picture...

00:05:10 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:05:12 ◼   ► We don't sit in the living room and listen to music that much.

00:05:15 ◼   ► Maybe we would if we had one.

00:05:16 ◼   ► But I actually listen to music mostly in the kitchen, and I've already got a Sonos in the

00:05:22 ◼   ► kitchen, which I like.

00:05:25 ◼   ► And so my use case for the thing is probably more like a soundbar for the TV.

00:05:34 ◼   ► I don't know that it's good for that.

00:05:35 ◼   ► I want to hear how that works.

00:05:36 ◼   ► Right.

00:05:37 ◼   ► Well, see, that's the thing.

00:05:38 ◼   ► I mean, right now, I'm not sure that it is because it's just AirPlay One.

00:05:40 ◼   ► And I don't really trust AirPlay One very much.

00:05:44 ◼   ► So I have not had a great experience with AirPlay One.

00:05:47 ◼   ► Right.

00:05:48 ◼   ► Like that's one of the—it's an interesting product and I feel like the complaints that

00:05:57 ◼   ► everybody has about it are—it just feels like we're on a merry-go-round.

00:06:03 ◼   ► It's the same thing every time Apple releases any product, right?

00:06:06 ◼   ► Like it doesn't have any input other than AirPlay.

00:06:12 ◼   ► So you can talk to it and if you have Apple Music, it'll play the music from your cloud.

00:06:21 ◼   ► And otherwise you can airplay to it. It's an airplay speaker and that's it. There

00:06:24 ◼   ► is no line in as the autophiles would say. And some people seem irrationally angry about

00:06:32 ◼   ► that but there are other products that have line in. So I don't know. I'm not quite

00:06:40 ◼   ► sure why people are angry and it dropping everything except the wireless over the air

00:06:46 ◼   ► connection feels like a very Apple thing to do. Yeah, definitely. I could definitely.

00:06:53 ◼   ► That's not something I like. Where do you? I don't know. I guess you could put you could

00:06:57 ◼   ► put a physical line from your TV or something in. Right. I mean, you're not going to hook

00:07:01 ◼   ► up your iPhone for us. So I ordered one and it was funny because I didn't know if it was

00:07:10 ◼   ► going to be like a midnight thing. They just said it was going on sale Friday. And so I

00:07:16 ◼   ► thought maybe like the phone, it would have to be at like 3 a.m. Eastern, midnight Pacific

00:07:21 ◼   ► time. So I stayed up and I was very tired. And nothing happened. There was no way to

00:07:29 ◼   ► buy and I waited like 20 minutes. I really didn't have a choice. I could either go upstairs

00:07:38 ◼   ► and go to bed and fall asleep,

00:07:39 ◼   ► or I would fall asleep right there on the couch

00:07:42 ◼   ► because the lights were going out.

00:07:44 ◼   ► Woke up in the morning and it was on sale

00:07:47 ◼   ► and it doesn't seem like there's any kind of shortages

00:07:50 ◼   ► or anything.

00:07:51 ◼   ► - No, it's still delivery February 9th.

00:07:54 ◼   ► - Which I don't think is necessarily a sign of poor sales.

00:07:57 ◼   ► I think that, 'cause all the rumors I had heard

00:08:00 ◼   ► from multiple little birdies were that the entire holdup,

00:08:05 ◼   ► Versus you know why it was late from last instead of shipping as promised in

00:08:09 ◼   ► I shouldn't say promise but as intended

00:08:12 ◼   ► Before the end of the calendar year 2017 was software quote unquote software

00:08:18 ◼   ► I don't know if it was if it's the software on the that runs on the in the home pod

00:08:23 ◼   ► I don't know if it's the software and the servers that connects, you know makes all the Apple music stuff work

00:08:29 ◼   ► Just software, but that make you know, that would explain why the hardware is shipping in quantity

00:08:34 ◼   ► Yeah. And I don't, I mean, right now, I don't expect it to be that sought after.

00:08:43 ◼   ► Right. Right.

00:08:44 ◼   ► I mean, because it does seem like, you know, it's a fairly expensive device,

00:08:47 ◼   ► and particularly for the category. And it seems like, like, for me,

00:08:50 ◼   ► it's something that you might want to read a few reviews of before you pull the trigger on.

00:08:54 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's funny. Renee was on the last episode, and we talked about it. I do think it's

00:09:01 ◼   ► funny. I mean, even the name AirPod and HomePod, I'm probably going to slip up and call the damn

00:09:06 ◼   ► thing AirPod twice during the show. But I think they're obviously intended as siblings, right?

00:09:12 ◼   ► One is the little, little guys that go in your ears and one, you know, sits on your countertop

00:09:18 ◼   ► or your tabletop. But they're so similar in spirit. And I kind of feel like the way that like,

00:09:27 ◼   ► like when AirPods first came out, now they were hard to get,

00:09:29 ◼   ► they were very, you know, were delayed

00:09:32 ◼   ► and weren't available, widely available.

00:09:36 ◼   ► But I feel like you see them more and more these days

00:09:38 ◼   ► and I just feel like that's the sort of uptake

00:09:41 ◼   ► if HomePod is successful.

00:09:44 ◼   ► And I think that's what's interesting about it is to me,

00:09:46 ◼   ► it's a huge F, I really, this is very hard to predict,

00:09:50 ◼   ► it's very hard for me to predict how this is gonna do.

00:09:53 ◼   ► But if it is a hit, I don't think it'll be an instant hit.

00:09:55 ◼   ► I think it'll be the sort of thing where somebody gets it and then you're over at their house

00:10:00 ◼   ► and you hear it and you see how easy, you know, it's fun to just tell it to, you know,

00:10:06 ◼   ► hey dingus play whatever and it works.

00:10:14 ◼   ► That's how it was with TiVo for me and Amy.

00:10:16 ◼   ► Like I remember when I first went to work at Barebone Software back in 2000, Rich Siegel

00:10:22 ◼   ► invited us to his house for dinner because we'd just moved from Philadelphia up to Massachusetts,

00:10:26 ◼   ► went to his house. And I specifically remember, it must have been the fall because the Yankees

00:10:30 ◼   ► were in the playoffs and there was, so we watched a bit of baseball, but we were blown

00:10:35 ◼   ► away by TiVo. We were like, holy cow, I got heard of it. I had, I knew the basic idea

00:10:40 ◼   ► and you could fast forward commercials and pause it, whatever. But once you saw it, it's

00:10:44 ◼   ► like, oh my God, this is nothing like a VCR, right? And we went out the next morning and

00:10:51 ◼   ► Like, I feel like HomePod could be like that for some people.

00:10:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:55 ◼   ► Yeah, there's certain, I mean, there's certain things that you kind of just have to get.

00:10:59 ◼   ► We were talking about before that when the Shuffle came out, we had our friend Albert

00:11:06 ◼   ► over for dinner and we were sitting around talking and Karen said something derogatory

00:11:10 ◼   ► about the Shuffle.

00:11:11 ◼   ► It's like she just thought it was stupid.

00:11:12 ◼   ► And we had some music playing and he said, he's like, well, it's just, you know, plays

00:11:15 ◼   ► this place a shuffle lesson.

00:11:16 ◼   ► And she was like, yeah, I think that's dumb.

00:11:17 ◼   ► That's all it does.

00:11:18 ◼   ► And he said, what are you playing right now?

00:11:20 ◼   ► now. Oh yeah, it's a shuffle list. And that's almost always what we play.

00:11:27 ◼   ► Right.

00:11:28 ◼   ► And so I got a shovel when it came out.

00:11:30 ◼   ► It is funny too, because when we were kids, you couldn't shuffle. There was no way to shuffle.

00:11:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:43 ◼   ► Everything was sequential.

00:11:44 ◼   ► You had to hit the fast forward button on the tape thing to go to the next song.

00:11:47 ◼   ► Right. Which would chew up your tape half the time. Right. So I

00:11:53 ◼   ► you know, I can spend the opening thing of the show

00:11:57 ◼   ► complaining that I spent five minutes at a bank. But meanwhile,

00:12:02 ◼   ► I spent my entire youth rewinding and fast forwarding

00:12:05 ◼   ► cassette tapes to listen to music and never thought twice

00:12:09 ◼   ► about it.

00:12:09 ◼   ► Do you ever have a track? No, I never had a track. We had a car

00:12:14 ◼   ► and we had one car that had a track in it. Briefly, I think I

00:12:17 ◼   ► think it like broke down really quickly and we ended up not

00:12:20 ◼   ► having it for more than like a year or something like that. And

00:12:24 ◼   ► I just I don't even know how that worked. But it was just it

00:12:26 ◼   ► was very strange. Like it was I think it was Yeah, I guess it

00:12:28 ◼   ► was just eight, eight separate. It was like tape, but it was

00:12:31 ◼   ► eight separate tracks at once. And you could just flip between

00:12:35 ◼   ► songs. That's just pick up a song midway through depending on

00:12:40 ◼   ► I

00:12:42 ◼   ► I isn't isn't it the case to that a track was had much higher

00:12:46 ◼   ► Fidelity than cassette tapes. I think it might have yeah

00:12:48 ◼   ► I mean the name alone makes it seem like it did but and and cuz cassette tapes were just terrible just

00:12:55 ◼   ► absolutely dreadful technology they were

00:12:57 ◼   ► They didn't have they didn't sound great. They were you had to rewind and fast-forward them

00:13:03 ◼   ► They would you could make your own you could make your own playlist, right? Exactly. I mean that was the that was the hook

00:13:08 ◼   ► I that was the thing to get about that, you know, I mean that was like, you know

00:13:11 ◼   ► It created a whole I've been creating a play a playlist. We're getting a mixtape for somebody

00:13:16 ◼   ► Yeah, that was a whole thing

00:13:18 ◼   ► I used I used to have I'd be listening to the radio and I would have a tape in my

00:13:23 ◼   ► Player ready to go and then every time it got to the end of a song I would move my hand over

00:13:29 ◼   ► Just in case the next song was a good one

00:13:32 ◼   ► And then I if it was I would hit record and want to get it, you know

00:13:37 ◼   ► So I had these tapes where I had all this music I'd taped off

00:13:40 ◼   ► FM radio and the beginning of every song is sort of like that that like Oh cut off cry

00:13:46 ◼   ► We're either cut off or like the cross fade between songs, you know

00:13:50 ◼   ► And those were the days those were the days that's what kids boy boy are we getting old

00:14:04 ◼   ► All right, let me take a break here and thank

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00:15:30 ◼   ► I've had a couple of these, I like them a lot.

00:15:35 ◼   ► I didn't know what dates tasted like.

00:15:37 ◼   ► I don't remember if I've ever eaten dates.

00:15:39 ◼   ► And so--

00:15:40 ◼   ► - Dates are great.

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00:16:19 ◼   ► Did you buy a lot of stuff online I buy so much we don't it's like it's gotten to the point

00:16:25 ◼   ► Amy and I went shopping last weekend and we were like, you know what?

00:16:28 ◼   ► When's the last time we went shopping together like just browsing around like out? Yeah, like, hmm. You just don't do it

00:16:34 ◼   ► Well, yeah, we certainly don't I mean we don't do it together anymore, right? It's like too much credit

00:16:40 ◼   ► No, you go do that. I gotta go do this other thing. I

00:16:43 ◼   ► Don't know how picky they're gonna be

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00:16:50 ◼   ► I haven't tried all 11, but I will tell you that the one I like the best so far is chocolate sea salt

00:16:54 ◼   ► I love that. Sounds good. Oh

00:16:57 ◼   ► Chocolate and salt go whatsoever together. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know

00:17:00 ◼   ► I don't know when I found out that dates were dates like I mean, I would have thought for years that dates

00:17:04 ◼   ► Oh god, I don't want to get a date. That sounds terrible. Yeah

00:17:06 ◼   ► Yeah, and then I think we get this cereal this some like nut crunch thing that had dates and I was like man

00:17:13 ◼   ► these are really good. I don't I don't know where I got the idea. I got the idea that they were like

00:17:18 ◼   ► prunes or something. Right. Well, they're dried, but that's but it's well, I mean, yeah. And the

00:17:24 ◼   ► only other thing I remember about dates, of course, is the great scene in Raiders of the

00:17:29 ◼   ► Lost Ark. Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. Maybe that I wonder if that had a bad effect on date sales.

00:17:34 ◼   ► I think it might have poisoned my brain. For those of you who don't recall, there's,

00:17:39 ◼   ► There's a a monkey bedeviling Indiana Jones throughout the movie and uh an assassin comes in

00:17:45 ◼   ► to kill Indiana Jones and pour some poison on some dates spoiler alert yeah yeah and then the monkey

00:17:51 ◼   ► eats a date and I'll leave the pun up to your imagination. Anyway, dates amazing. File that under

00:18:01 ◼   ► 40 some years of wasted opportunity.

00:18:04 ◼   ► It's true.

00:18:07 ◼   ► Like how much stuff else out there that I'm supposed to have been eating for the last

00:18:12 ◼   ► 30 years that I just have filed away as something I don't like? I don't know.

00:18:17 ◼   ► There's a few things. I mean, I think there's a few things that I don't like that I, but I

00:18:22 ◼   ► definitely know I don't like them. Like I've tried them. I've tried them recently. I don't think,

00:18:27 ◼   ► I don't think there's a thing that I've had for ever.

00:18:30 ◼   ► I'm not crazy about cherries. I've never been crazy about cherries just because

00:18:35 ◼   ► that was like always the flavor of medicine when I was a kid.

00:18:41 ◼   ► And so I always sort of associate it with some like, "Oh god, I gotta take this crap because I'm sick."

00:18:47 ◼   ► But my new exception is liquor-soaked cherries are really good.

00:18:56 ◼   ► you get in a drink you know and they're like they're really dark and they're full of like

00:19:00 ◼   ► bourbon or something yeah so not like a not like a maraschino cherry you're talking about like it

00:19:05 ◼   ► no not like a maraschino cherry but like a like a liquor infused cherry yeah that does

00:19:09 ◼   ► eat those that does sound good um friend of the show uh scott simpson is is a you as you probably

00:19:17 ◼   ► remember is a very very big fan of the maraschino cherry yes right what was the drink that the that

00:19:23 ◼   ► that the boys made. They made the Aunt Nancy. Remember, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Is it from the

00:19:28 ◼   ► show? Yeah, from you look nice today. The boys came up with their signature cocktail

00:19:32 ◼   ► of the podcast. I believe in Aunt Nancy is quote a fistful of maraschino cherries and

00:19:40 ◼   ► then makers makers mark to garnish. I think I think so. That sounds familiar and I it

00:19:48 ◼   ► It fits because Scott has a knack of finding the worst bars possible. You go to a town

00:19:54 ◼   ► with Scott and he will just instinctively wander into the most horrible bar you could

00:20:01 ◼   ► find. And not horrible and like, "Oh my God, it's a terrible dive," but just crappy

00:20:05 ◼   ► like TGI Friday's kind of bar.

00:20:09 ◼   ► Yep. Like a TGI Friday's that hasn't been inspected in a few years.

00:20:16 ◼   ► Which is to say a TGI Friday's.

00:20:18 ◼   ► and the town, everybody in whatever town it is just assumes it's been closed for a while,

00:20:23 ◼   ► so they haven't sent an inspector. I've been out with him. I've been out with him and he literally

00:20:29 ◼   ► will order a drink with a fistful of maraschino cherries and then the bartender will start plopping

00:20:35 ◼   ► like two or three in and Scott is so great. It's not like he's bossing them and telling them what

00:20:40 ◼   ► to do. He's like, "Oh no, no, I'm so sorry. I literally meant a fistful. Put a whole fistful in."

00:20:44 ◼   ► I don't know. Maybe that's a good way of getting a snack while you're yeah. Well,

00:20:51 ◼   ► that's part of his, you know, you get a free, like, you know, you might have to pay for a bowl of

00:20:55 ◼   ► pretzels or something. That's just part of the drink. They charge extra for that.

00:21:02 ◼   ► HomePod. We were talking about. So people, some people got access last week. Apparently

00:21:08 ◼   ► a friend of the show, serenity Caldwell had a writeup at, uh, I'm more, um,

00:21:14 ◼   ► I think it was Brian heater had a write-up at TechCrunch seems like people like it

00:21:19 ◼   ► It sounds like what people got was sort of a similar demonstration as the one we had it back at WWDC where they

00:21:26 ◼   ► Were had side-by-side comparisons

00:21:29 ◼   ► But including now the Google home max, which is actually four hundred dollars more than a home pod

00:21:37 ◼   ► Not sure what to say though if without me having heard one so I don't know

00:21:43 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:21:46 ◼   ► I'm looking forward to it though.

00:21:47 ◼   ► - So it doesn't, I mean, it sounds like there's a few things

00:21:50 ◼   ► to pull out of some of this information,

00:21:52 ◼   ► just that it will play,

00:21:54 ◼   ► you don't have to have Apple Music per se.

00:21:58 ◼   ► - No.

00:21:59 ◼   ► - 'Cause it'll play iCloud Music library stuff

00:22:01 ◼   ► that's subscribed to via iTunes match.

00:22:04 ◼   ► - Yes, it was a surprising source of confusion.

00:22:08 ◼   ► I really do think entirely Apple's fault.

00:22:11 ◼   ► I mean, and all straightened out now, I think,

00:22:13 ◼   ► and certainly will be straightened out

00:22:15 ◼   ► before people get these HomePods.

00:22:17 ◼   ► But there was, it was like in their fervor

00:22:21 ◼   ► to emphasize Apple Music and encourage people,

00:22:26 ◼   ► that the two things go hand in hand,

00:22:30 ◼   ► that if you have HomePod, you'll love Apple Music,

00:22:32 ◼   ► and if you have Apple Music, you'll love a HomePod.

00:22:35 ◼   ► It seemed to get, it almost came out

00:22:39 ◼   ► the only thing I could play was Apple Music, and that is not the case. So if you have iTunes

00:22:46 ◼   ► Match or iCloud—whatever it's called, there's a lot of different things there—but

00:22:52 ◼   ► iCloud Music Library? Isn't that what it's called?

00:22:55 ◼   ► So if you have iCloud Music Library and you have songs like Bootlegs or just, for whatever

00:23:01 ◼   ► reason, music that's not in iTunes Store or Apple Music, it'll play it. And you don't

00:23:09 ◼   ► have to airplay it to do it. You can just tell Siri and she'll play it, which is as you would

00:23:15 ◼   ► expect. You would like I wrote on during fireball when it when it sounded like maybe it didn't work

00:23:21 ◼   ► that it was kind of confounding because the entire stack is apples. Like they're not,

00:23:24 ◼   ► you know, I mean, I, I, iTunes is Apple's thing, so it ought to work. Yeah, you'd think. And it

00:23:33 ◼   ► apparently it, well, it's at least supposed to. So, you know how well it works, we'll have to see,

00:23:37 ◼   ► but it does work. And then you can earplay from whatever you can earplay from.

00:23:44 ◼   ► I'm really looking forward to it. I've said this before, but we have the Amazon Echo in our

00:23:51 ◼   ► kitchen. And Amy spends a lot of time there. It's like a nice room. It's got a big island thing in

00:24:01 ◼   ► in the middle, you can hang out. And, you know, she listens to music on the echo. And

00:24:07 ◼   ► I think it sounds terrible. You know, I don't know how much better. Right? Like, I don't

00:24:13 ◼   ► know how much better home pod really will sound compared to an Amazon echo in our kitchen.

00:24:19 ◼   ► You know, I remember the demo I got at WWDC. And it clearly sounded better. I mean, but

00:24:24 ◼   ► you know, and and, you know, it to Amazon's credit, they don't really bill it as a as

00:24:29 ◼   ► as being a music thing.

00:24:32 ◼   ► - It's clearly way cheaper too.

00:24:33 ◼   ► - Right, it is way cheaper.

00:24:35 ◼   ► It is a lot more like sort of like a good

00:24:38 ◼   ► clock radio type thing.

00:24:41 ◼   ► But for us, and it really was,

00:24:44 ◼   ► we were on the cusp thinking about getting a Sonos

00:24:49 ◼   ► back when they announced it.

00:24:51 ◼   ► And so put it off, we'll wait for this thing.

00:24:53 ◼   ► So I'm looking forward to it.

00:24:56 ◼   ► So we'll definitely have one in the kitchen.

00:24:58 ◼   ► whether we like it enough that I'll get one from my office. I don't, I don't know.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Yeah. And well, I mean, I think, well, I get, are you,

00:25:06 ◼   ► those are separate zones, right?

00:25:08 ◼   ► So you wouldn't be trying to play necessarily the same stuff to each,

00:25:12 ◼   ► to both of them at the same time. Now I, I,

00:25:14 ◼   ► is that you can't that you can't do until you get your plate too. Yeah. And uh,

00:25:18 ◼   ► yeah. And that's a weird thing too. Like, so you can't do multi-room audio.

00:25:23 ◼   ► That would be like playing like for a party or something,

00:25:26 ◼   ► playing the same song in multiple rooms

00:25:28 ◼   ► at the same synchronization.

00:25:30 ◼   ► - Right, and that's the thing I could see us doing.

00:25:33 ◼   ► I think that we, because currently we just like,

00:25:35 ◼   ► we have a party, we play the music from the Sonos

00:25:37 ◼   ► in the kitchen and most people, frankly, it's a party.

00:25:39 ◼   ► Most people hang out in the kitchen for whatever reason.

00:25:42 ◼   ► But I would think that we would wanna have it

00:25:47 ◼   ► in the living room too.

00:25:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm still curious how they're gonna do it

00:25:52 ◼   ► in the stores.

00:25:54 ◼   ► I really am, 'cause it's, those Apple stores are so noisy

00:25:59 ◼   ► and acoustically seem like nightmares

00:26:05 ◼   ► because it's hard floors, hard tables.

00:26:08 ◼   ► I don't, I think the walls are hard, aren't they?

00:26:11 ◼   ► A lot of them have like the, it just glass front, you know?

00:26:15 ◼   ► - Yeah. - A big,

00:26:16 ◼   ► just sounds like a loud echo. - Yeah, and like

00:26:17 ◼   ► a wide open thing to the mall.

00:26:19 ◼   ► - Right, so I'm really curious about that.

00:26:23 ◼   ► And as usual, Apple is, they don't,

00:26:27 ◼   ► - They won't tell you.

00:26:28 ◼   ► - Well, we'll find out when they're in the stores,

00:26:30 ◼   ► whether they're actually, who knows,

00:26:33 ◼   ► maybe you won't really be able to play them.

00:26:35 ◼   ► It just seems weird.

00:26:36 ◼   ► It seems like a hard product to sell given their...

00:26:40 ◼   ► - They let you play with the Apple TV.

00:26:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, but that's not noisy, right?

00:26:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I mean, I know, yeah.

00:26:46 ◼   ► But I mean, I was wondering about that at the time too,

00:26:49 ◼   ► how they were gonna demonstrate that,

00:26:51 ◼   ► but they just have it there.

00:26:53 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:26:54 ◼   ► - Go at it.

00:26:54 ◼   ► - And it's like a different retail setup.

00:26:59 ◼   ► You could have like a fake living room.

00:27:02 ◼   ► You know, like when you go to Ikea,

00:27:04 ◼   ► they have little fake kitchens

00:27:06 ◼   ► and you can pretend like you live here.

00:27:07 ◼   ► And I don't see how Apple could do that effectively

00:27:12 ◼   ► in the Apple store.

00:27:14 ◼   ► - Well, I'm sure you've been to,

00:27:15 ◼   ► I mean, years going back in time again,

00:27:18 ◼   ► those stereo stores where they have the sealed off rooms.

00:27:22 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:27:23 ◼   ► - 'Cause that was like, you know, like you buy,

00:27:24 ◼   ► you buy the components separately and get, you know,

00:27:27 ◼   ► you get your tape deck, you get your receiver,

00:27:30 ◼   ► and then you gotta buy the speakers.

00:27:32 ◼   ► You gotta go into the room to try the speakers out

00:27:34 ◼   ► 'cause you gotta get the back.

00:27:35 ◼   ► - Right.

00:27:37 ◼   ► And they would have like a little, like an apparatus

00:27:39 ◼   ► where they could switch, you know, like they wouldn't have

00:27:42 ◼   ► to plug and unplug them.

00:27:43 ◼   ► They'd have like a little ABCD type thing

00:27:46 ◼   ► they could turn a dial and and I don't know I don't think I don't know of any place that does

00:27:52 ◼   ► that anymore maybe their places and big bigger cities than where I live but but they but the

00:27:57 ◼   ► one place that they do have stuff like that still is like the car stereo places yeah yeah

00:28:02 ◼   ► yeah I guess they would wouldn't they yeah because I was in one of those like a few years ago and

00:28:08 ◼   ► that that business seems like it's still still relatively the same because the aftermarket car

00:28:14 ◼   ► stuff. You know, people people still do that a lot. I mean, they I guess people still do speakers

00:28:19 ◼   ► too, but I had probably less than they used to because it seems like people are switching to

00:28:24 ◼   ► these these sort of connected devices that are Yeah, somebody was just telling me I knew I knew

00:28:31 ◼   ► that it was a thing I was somehow I don't forget if it was on my podcast or where but somehow it

00:28:37 ◼   ► came up where I was talking about the fact that we have a our one car is a 2006 and and therefore

00:28:44 ◼   ► pre is it was predates not just the iPhone but it was also it didn't even have the 30 pin connector

00:28:51 ◼   ► like the 2007 models came with a 30 pin connector and I remember thinking like man that would have

00:28:56 ◼   ► been sweet and I think we've had this car so long we've had this car so long where I went from having

00:29:02 ◼   ► a pang of jealousy that we didn't have a 30-pin connector to hook up like an iPod to now being,

00:29:08 ◼   ► wow, did we dodge a bullet on that one? Yeah, right. Like all those hotels that have the…

00:29:15 ◼   ► But anyway, somebody mentioned… The dock connector.

00:29:16 ◼   ► Yeah. Somebody mentioned that you can go to one of those car stereo places and get like a car

00:29:22 ◼   ► play set up. Like you don't have to, you know, I guess this all came up in the aftermath of the

00:29:26 ◼   ► BMW thing where BMW was rumored to begin charging $80 a year just to keep your carplay working.

00:29:34 ◼   ► And somebody said that you can just go to and buy an aftermarket carplay thing and that a lot of

00:29:42 ◼   ► them are better because the car makers don't screw up. That's what I should do eventually. God,

00:29:46 ◼   ► I wonder how that works with like, it seems like all these, I mean like, you know, I now have an

00:29:49 ◼   ► integrated screen in the car. So I got a new car a couple years, three years ago, something like

00:29:54 ◼   ► that um but yeah but prior to that i had a you know you need to have your car get you you have

00:30:01 ◼   ► to have your um stereo get stolen that's what you need that's what happened that's what happened to

00:30:05 ◼   ► me and then i got because i had i had the tape deck thing where you just you know like you put

00:30:10 ◼   ► a tape deck and you push that thing into the tape deck to play um you know and then it's just a wire

00:30:18 ◼   ► that you connected to your iphone yeah that's what we've got i've got that's what we've got

00:30:22 ◼   ► That way is that what you're still yeah our car has it

00:30:25 ◼   ► You definitely need to get your stereo still our car has like a six disc CD player and a cassette tape player

00:30:33 ◼   ► God I got stolen and I was like, I'm getting Bluetooth

00:30:38 ◼   ► It's funny. We've gone in the course of half an hour

00:30:41 ◼   ► We've gone from me thinking cassette tapes were likes like a relic of my childhood to me it

00:30:47 ◼   ► technology that you're still relying on that technology right the car that's right above me right now is

00:30:52 ◼   ► Still has that technology

00:30:55 ◼   ► Go write yourself another check

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00:33:03 ◼   ► is where you go, and when you enter the code "talk show," no "the," just "talk

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00:33:15 ◼   ► when you pay remember that code talk show. I don't have much

00:33:22 ◼   ► else to say about home pod. I feel like we got to get we got

00:33:24 ◼   ► to get them before we can talk more about it. I had this on my

00:33:28 ◼   ► list of topics. Did you hear that the iPhone 10 was

00:33:31 ◼   ► canceled?

00:33:33 ◼   ► I had heard that.

00:33:38 ◼   ► This is still a thing.

00:33:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:41 ◼   ► So, Ming-Chi Kuo wrote in one of his famous notes that because of weak demand, and I think

00:33:55 ◼   ► he only said in China that the iPhone X would not be continued. And I forget his exact words,

00:34:06 ◼   ► but he said something about summer, that they would stop. He didn't say stop production.

00:34:15 ◼   ► He said something vague, though.

00:34:17 ◼   ► It – René and I talked about it last week, but it's the week – in the week since,

00:34:22 ◼   ► It's just now it's just part of the air out there that people think the iPhone 10 has been cancelled

00:34:27 ◼   ► When what it really was was something something to the effect of if they're not gonna keep selling it after the 2018 phones come out

00:34:34 ◼   ► Yeah, they'll stop production at some point in the summer because they'll have enough of them to sell up until September

00:34:40 ◼   ► Whatever the date is September 20th or whatever. It's going to be you don't stop making them when you stop selling them, right?

00:34:48 ◼   ► But then it quickly it quickly the story so it spun out of control and became

00:34:53 ◼   ► That they're going to stop selling them as soon as they stop making them in the summer and that we're gonna have like a weeks

00:35:00 ◼   ► Long gap with no iPhone 10

00:35:02 ◼   ► And then it quickly changed to there it being canceled right now

00:35:07 ◼   ► In January, it's any minute imminent. Like I think I said, I think I saw someone say like, you know shortly or imminent or something

00:35:16 ◼   ► just like yeah but in I mean within the last few days though also I've seen a

00:35:23 ◼   ► whole bunch of things that said that it's actually selling quite well right

00:35:26 ◼   ► and it's all it's it's like clockwork I every January it comes at these these

00:35:32 ◼   ► bullshit reports come out that say that that there's production is being you

00:35:38 ◼   ► know apples have told its suppliers that it's cutting forecasts well so you you'd

00:35:46 ◼   ► You'd retweeted Ryan Jones, who plowed through some of the numbers.

00:35:53 ◼   ► So the Wall Street Journal says, "iPhone 10 Q2 cut was from $40 million planned to $20

00:36:01 ◼   ► million."

00:36:02 ◼   ► And he points out that usually, the last two years, Apple sold about $50 million in that

00:36:07 ◼   ► quarter.

00:36:08 ◼   ► Right.

00:36:09 ◼   ► And does $40 million for that quarter make any sense whatsoever?

00:36:14 ◼   ► Do you think they really thought that they were gonna sell,

00:36:16 ◼   ► like 80% of their sales were gonna be the iPhone 10?

00:36:20 ◼   ► So no, I mean, it seems like 20 million

00:36:22 ◼   ► is actually what it would have realistically been.

00:36:25 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:36:26 ◼   ► I think it was, and I think it was ATP Tipster, I believe,

00:36:33 ◼   ► who asked me whether I thought this was malfeasance

00:36:41 ◼   ► or are these suppliers just being cherry-picked?

00:36:46 ◼   ► And as Apple moves,

00:36:51 ◼   ► here's the company that makes the volume buttons,

00:36:56 ◼   ► and they're gonna, Tim Cook's figured out

00:36:59 ◼   ► that they could save five cents per button

00:37:02 ◼   ► if they go to somebody across town.

00:37:05 ◼   ► And so they cut the supplies from company A

00:37:09 ◼   ► and increase the ones from company B,

00:37:11 ◼   ► but company A has no idea because Apple, of course,

00:37:13 ◼   ► is probably a nightmare to deal with

00:37:16 ◼   ► because they're so secretive

00:37:18 ◼   ► and they're so good at being secretive.

00:37:20 ◼   ► So company A just hears,

00:37:21 ◼   ► oh, we don't need as many volume buttons

00:37:23 ◼   ► as we thought we would from you anymore.

00:37:25 ◼   ► And then they go and blab to somebody that,

00:37:28 ◼   ► hey, the iPhone 10, they're cutting the production in half.

00:37:32 ◼   ► And I think it's more malfeasance.

00:37:36 ◼   ► I really do think it's people spreading rumors,

00:37:41 ◼   ► either for competitive reasons or to short the stock.

00:37:44 ◼   ► And the reason why is 'cause you never hear

00:37:47 ◼   ► from the other suppliers.

00:37:49 ◼   ► You never hear some other supplier say,

00:37:53 ◼   ► oh, well, it sounds to me, it sounds to us

00:37:56 ◼   ► like iPhone demand has doubled.

00:37:58 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:38:01 ◼   ► I guess if I want to try to find a way,

00:38:04 ◼   ► if I try to, you know, devil's advocate,

00:38:06 ◼   ► try to figure out, maybe it could be

00:38:10 ◼   ► that the suppliers who get the increased demand from Apple

00:38:15 ◼   ► are so happy about it and they don't wanna piss Apple off

00:38:19 ◼   ► so they keep their mouths shut

00:38:21 ◼   ► and it's the supplier who Apple cuts.

00:38:24 ◼   ► The demand is sour grapes

00:38:26 ◼   ► and then they go and talk to the Wall Street Journal?

00:38:28 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:38:29 ◼   ► I guess that's possible but it seems to me like if you want,

00:38:33 ◼   ► even if you still have 20 million--

00:38:35 ◼   ► - I mean the thing that drives me crazy

00:38:36 ◼   ► Most of this stuff comes from financial analysts, right?

00:38:41 ◼   ► And these, and I think he does,

00:38:45 ◼   ► I mean, he does a pretty good job, basically,

00:38:48 ◼   ► as far as they all go, he does a pretty good job.

00:38:50 ◼   ► But a lot of these guys just,

00:38:52 ◼   ► they get out there and they say the craziest,

00:38:53 ◼   ► I mean, what's his name?

00:38:55 ◼   ► Choudry.

00:38:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, Trip.

00:38:59 ◼   ► - Trip Choudry, yeah.

00:39:00 ◼   ► I mean, how does that guy view his,

00:39:06 ◼   ► what is his game there in saying the crazy stuff that he does? I mean, I guess he's just he doesn't

00:39:10 ◼   ► he doesn't care about that. But it just it seems like if you're a financial analyst,

00:39:14 ◼   ► why would you say stuff that is demonstrably wrong all the time?

00:39:17 ◼   ► How does that make a good case for people? You know, like subscribing to your your material

00:39:25 ◼   ► or investing through you? Right? I have no idea. Like I, I guess I can see why somebody would want

00:39:31 ◼   ► to pay for Ming Chi Kuo's stuff because it seems like he you know he's not perfect but a lot of his

00:39:37 ◼   ► stuff is accurate you know what I don't know 60 70 percent right and you can kind of you can kind

00:39:46 ◼   ► of see the you know from his history you can see which are the type of things he's speculating

00:39:50 ◼   ► about and which ones are not you know I mean like the basically like if he says something's going

00:39:59 ◼   ► on at Foxconn, you can be pretty sure about it. There's some people—he's more or less taken

00:40:05 ◼   ► Foxconn people out and getting them drunk and they tell them secrets.

00:40:08 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:40:09 ◼   ► John: Those people need a drink, too.

00:40:15 ◼   ► All right, I just I googled my uh, I did a search here for some trip trip claims

00:40:21 ◼   ► Here's one I wrote in uh, January 2012 January 2016 so that was

00:40:31 ◼   ► Two years ago, uh trip claim chowdhury woke up from another bender

00:40:36 ◼   ► Garrett cook reporting for yahoo finance last week in a recent note chowdhury called for the quote

00:40:44 ◼   ► "completely clueless," Tim Cook to be replaced.

00:40:48 ◼   ► He cited a culture of "bozo's" at Apple, destroying $486 billion

00:40:57 ◼   ► in shareholder value under Cook's management. $486 billion.

00:41:03 ◼   ► There is hope, though, for Apple's management, and it starts with Jonathan Rubenstein taking over

00:41:12 ◼   ► Do you remember this?

00:41:14 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:16 ◼   ► It's unbelievable.

00:41:17 ◼   ► Cook needs to be replaced and mercifully noted Cook can "go back to his operations role."

00:41:23 ◼   ► Sure, that's how that works.

00:41:26 ◼   ► So he thinks—

00:41:27 ◼   ► You just get demoted back to the role that you had.

00:41:31 ◼   ► It wouldn't be humiliating at all.

00:41:33 ◼   ► No, no.

00:41:35 ◼   ► And certainly figuring out the, you know, like his salary and his benefits, that would be very easy.

00:41:40 ◼   ► be very easy. You just roll them back to what he was getting before.

00:41:43 ◼   ► I forgot that I wrote this. This is so good. So my quip on this post was,

00:41:48 ◼   ► "Has anyone considered the possibility that 'Trip Choudry' doesn't actually exist and is really some

00:41:54 ◼   ► sort of experiment to test whether the business press will question anyone claiming to be an

00:41:59 ◼   ► analyst, no matter how I name their statements?" Yeah. I think the famous one was when he said

00:42:07 ◼   ► that Apple needed to release a watch within like 60 days or it was going to go out of business.

00:42:11 ◼   ► That's true.

00:42:12 ◼   ► And that guy probably makes a decent living, you know. He probably does quite well.

00:42:25 ◼   ► I think.

00:42:26 ◼   ► And it's clearly, I mean, you know, and so I assume that this is some sort of performance art.

00:42:31 ◼   ► Right? I mean, he's, they definitely do this, you know, they, it's the same thing with like

00:42:37 ◼   ► people who are selling books who will come out and say, "Somebody has some book about

00:42:44 ◼   ► the techno--the top seven tips from smartest technology managers in Silicon Valley or something

00:42:53 ◼   ► like that."

00:42:54 ◼   ► In order to pump the book, they'll make some crazy claim about Apple and put down at the

00:43:01 ◼   ► bottom.

00:43:02 ◼   ► know I so and so is the author of the new book whatever yeah um so there's there's definitely

00:43:08 ◼   ► that going on and I I just assume that he has decided somehow that and some of these

00:43:13 ◼   ► other ones have decided that they're that's going to be their thing I guess so it just doesn't make

00:43:20 ◼   ► sense to me it doesn't make sense to me either because you sound like an idiot if I were that

00:43:24 ◼   ► accurate writing it during fireball like I

00:43:27 ◼   ► Would be like that have like three viewers and one of them would be my mom, you know, I mean like who would read it

00:43:35 ◼   ► Trip chow, we were read it

00:43:39 ◼   ► Like if our podcast my podcast word is regularly wrong and profoundly is that like wouldn't people be furious like if I

00:43:51 ◼   ► If I if I was railing that Tim Cook is a bozo who needed to be fired wouldn't people be furious

00:43:57 ◼   ► He'd be like I cannot listen to this guy anymore. I mean, maybe people think they can't listen to me anymore regardless

00:44:02 ◼   ► Alright let's shift from bozos to somebody who's really smart. Did you see this Twitter thread a

00:44:13 ◼   ► Woman who I guess she'd recently left out. Yeah, but Bethany Bongiorno

00:44:20 ◼   ► I'm curious what she's working on because she and another longtime

00:44:24 ◼   ► Apple employee

00:44:28 ◼   ► Just left and are doing something together

00:44:32 ◼   ► But anyway she tweeted

00:44:36 ◼   ► Now that she's out of Apple and can talk

00:44:39 ◼   ► About the iPad launch

00:44:44 ◼   ► And

00:44:48 ◼   ► She told this great great story

00:44:50 ◼   ► One she says that Steve carefully chose the the lark who I don't know how to pronounce this Laura lay

00:44:58 ◼   ► Corbusier chair, but it's that chair that

00:45:02 ◼   ► you know sort of

00:45:05 ◼   ► Very modern leather chair, but there were a sea of them

00:45:12 ◼   ► And each one was carried out so he could inspect it in the stage lighting

00:45:16 ◼   ► Did it have the right coloring was there where in the right places? Did it have the right sit?

00:45:23 ◼   ► When the third-party developers were brought in if this sounds like a nightmare this is the one part

00:45:29 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, when third-party developers were brought in a few weeks before the event they were told

00:45:34 ◼   ► They were only flying in for the day for a meeting and when they found out they would be stuck there for weeks

00:45:41 ◼   ► we had to take them to Target to get more clothes and other necessities.

00:45:45 ◼   ► I guess, you know, I mean, like, yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do, right? I mean, like,

00:45:51 ◼   ► see, this is, you know, I think this is kind of acid, you know, like a real jerk move by Apple,

00:45:55 ◼   ► really. But I mean, I guess if you're the developer, you got to make that decision

00:45:59 ◼   ► on the spot and kind of go, "Well, my family's gonna be really angry with me, but if this,

00:46:06 ◼   ► you know, we're gonna be on stage at the launch of this frickin' device."

00:46:10 ◼   ► It makes me wonder whether that's the sort of thing that is different in the post-Steve Apple

00:46:16 ◼   ► Like was it like without Steve Jobs there?

00:46:19 ◼   ► Would they really do that? Would they really fly people out thinking it's a one-day meeting and then say look you have it

00:46:26 ◼   ► Here's the opportunity you have to say yes or no right now. You can spend the next three weeks and build an app for this device

00:46:32 ◼   ► Which we're not gonna really show you

00:46:35 ◼   ► right, right, which is like

00:46:39 ◼   ► underneath some like thing right I mean like they were covered up right they were like in a case that disguised the real stuff

00:46:45 ◼   ► And if you do this we might

00:46:50 ◼   ► We might show your app on stage if we like

00:46:54 ◼   ► maybe

00:46:57 ◼   ► Yes, or no you in that's amazing

00:47:01 ◼   ► Let's go to target

00:47:04 ◼   ► So the third-party devs were escorted and monitored at all times. We all signed up for shifts even on the weekends

00:47:10 ◼   ► They weren't able to bring their phones into the workroom or use Wi-Fi and the iPads written in stealth cases

00:47:17 ◼   ► So they couldn't see the industrial design before the event

00:47:20 ◼   ► I

00:47:22 ◼   ► knew a little bit about this because a

00:47:24 ◼   ► friend of mine Jennifer Brooke

00:47:27 ◼   ► Was at the New York Times at the time and actually was on stage at the iPad

00:47:33 ◼   ► that the New York Times app was shown.

00:47:35 ◼   ► So I've heard this same story from her perspective

00:47:39 ◼   ► as somebody found out she was spending three weeks

00:47:43 ◼   ► in a windowless room at Apple.

00:47:45 ◼   ► I think that's the other part.

00:47:46 ◼   ► I don't think Bethany Bongiorno mentioned

00:47:48 ◼   ► that it was windowless because they didn't--

00:47:50 ◼   ► - Oh, it had to be.

00:47:51 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:47:51 ◼   ► - 'Cause nobody could look at it and see an iPad.

00:47:54 ◼   ► - Yeah. - It was crazy.

00:47:56 ◼   ► But then here's the one I love.

00:47:57 ◼   ► This is the story, I love this.

00:47:58 ◼   ► At one point, Steve wanted to turn UI kit elements orange,

00:48:02 ◼   ► not just any orange, he wanted a particular orange

00:48:05 ◼   ► from the button on a certain old Sony remote.

00:48:08 ◼   ► We got a bunch of remotes from Sony with orange button

00:48:11 ◼   ► to try and find the right one.

00:48:13 ◼   ► In the end, Steve hated it.

00:48:16 ◼   ► It's the greatest.

00:48:18 ◼   ► When I retweeted it, I said there are entire books

00:48:20 ◼   ► about Steve Jobs that have less information

00:48:23 ◼   ► than that one tweet.

00:48:25 ◼   ► I just love it, and I don't know how close she was

00:48:28 ◼   ► to running out of 280 characters.

00:48:30 ◼   ► But it looks, it's a pretty long tweet,

00:48:34 ◼   ► so I'm guessing it was close.

00:48:36 ◼   ► I don't know if it's forced brevity

00:48:38 ◼   ► because she was running out of characters or not,

00:48:40 ◼   ► but it's such great writing that it's just this whole saga

00:48:44 ◼   ► about this particularly orange

00:48:46 ◼   ► and changing the whole interface.

00:48:48 ◼   ► I guess the idea was that instead of like mostly

00:48:50 ◼   ► a blue interface of the iPhone,

00:48:53 ◼   ► you know, like when you, you know, back pre-Io7,

00:48:57 ◼   ► when you would tap a row, it would light up blue.

00:49:01 ◼   ► Like in a UI table view.

00:49:05 ◼   ► And I'm guessing that he had the idea

00:49:09 ◼   ► to make the iPad like a sort of orange-based interface.

00:49:12 ◼   ► And I think I had a Sony remote control

00:49:15 ◼   ► with the orange that he's talking about.

00:49:17 ◼   ► I know I used to have a Trinitron,

00:49:19 ◼   ► and it did have a very nice orange for the power button.

00:49:22 ◼   ► I kind of think I know which,

00:49:25 ◼   ► maybe not the exact model,

00:49:26 ◼   ► but I know the basic vibe of the orange

00:49:30 ◼   ► that she's talking about.

00:49:31 ◼   ► And I can see how it was a good idea,

00:49:35 ◼   ► but I just love that sentence.

00:49:36 ◼   ► In the end, Steve hated it.

00:49:38 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:49:39 ◼   ► Just nevermind.

00:49:40 ◼   ► And--

00:49:42 ◼   ► - I'm sure that happened a lot.

00:49:44 ◼   ► I mean, you know, it happens in software development.

00:49:49 ◼   ► I mean, you know, like you spend a bunch of time

00:49:51 ◼   ► working on something and then you're like, no.

00:49:53 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:49:54 ◼   ► - That's no good.

00:49:56 ◼   ► particularly with him, I'm sure. And he had a very particular idea of what he wanted and then

00:50:01 ◼   ► decided that he was wrong in the end. I think that with him too, it was also the case that

00:50:07 ◼   ► things like that could happen closer to the end. At any point, it might be like literally like one

00:50:13 ◼   ► week before they're supposed to unveil it. And he's like, I want the whole thing orange. And then

00:50:17 ◼   ► everybody scrambles for 72 hours, finding old remotes on eBay, and finding an orange,

00:50:24 ◼   ► and then trying to figure out how to translate the orange

00:50:27 ◼   ► from a real rubber button to an onscreen button

00:50:30 ◼   ► that's backlit and to have it come across the same way.

00:50:32 ◼   ► And then they hook it all up and Steve takes a look at it

00:50:35 ◼   ► and says, "I hate it, this is terrible."

00:50:37 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:50:39 ◼   ► I just love it though.

00:50:41 ◼   ► And the thing about Steve Jobs

00:50:43 ◼   ► that I love about that story is the phrase,

00:50:45 ◼   ► I don't know who invented the phrase,

00:50:47 ◼   ► but the idea of strong opinions loosely held.

00:50:52 ◼   ► In other words, if you're gonna have an opinion,

00:50:54 ◼   ► be adamant about it, but also don't be so egotistical

00:50:58 ◼   ► as to refuse to change your mind, right?

00:51:01 ◼   ► Like that was like his unbelievable,

00:51:04 ◼   ► like Tim Cook has said this so many times

00:51:06 ◼   ► and in so many ways, but Steve Jobs' ability

00:51:09 ◼   ► to change his mind might've been the single most genius thing

00:51:14 ◼   ► about the man.

00:51:16 ◼   ► Like he, 'cause, and I think it was infuriating,

00:51:21 ◼   ► it could be at times, because I feel like

00:51:23 ◼   ► at the point where he hates the orange. He's like, who's the moron who spent all this time

00:51:26 ◼   ► making this orange? Why did you waste the time? And it was like, uh, that was you.

00:51:29 ◼   ► Well, people, people always wanted to call him a hypocrite too, or, or, or, you know, contradictory

00:51:37 ◼   ► because he would say, you know, that's, uh, that's, that thing's terrible. Our competitors

00:51:42 ◼   ► had that thing. It's awful. And then, you know, three years later they introduced the same thing.

00:51:45 ◼   ► I had that thought too, when, when these tweets came out and I was rereading them

00:51:52 ◼   ► And I thought, "Hey, you know what? This is the first time I heard a story about Steve Jobs."

00:51:57 ◼   ► And my first reaction was laughter and not sadness. And I thought, "We've kind of crossed."

00:52:04 ◼   ► It's been enough time where it sounds morbid, but it's like I already—my first thought isn't

00:52:16 ◼   ► sadness. It's like, of course, he's dead already. You know, he's, he's filed away as

00:52:20 ◼   ► someone who's no longer with us. I think the chair, the chair thing is sort of the only thing

00:52:25 ◼   ► that gives me, you know, a little bit of that feeling just because he was he was pretty sick.

00:52:29 ◼   ► Yes. Yeah. And he could not, he couldn't stand for the whole thing. I also but at the same time,

00:52:34 ◼   ► they were also pitching it as a device that you're just gonna be sitting on the couch using this

00:52:38 ◼   ► thing. I had a lot of the a lot of the art that they released was just like people sitting around

00:52:45 ◼   ► in the ads, where people sitting around with it, like, we, we joked about this, like, you know,

00:52:50 ◼   ► it was in that, you know, for people who wear jeans, it was in that sort of like,

00:52:55 ◼   ► fold that is on the front of the jeans when you sit down, right? That was the that was the iPad

00:53:02 ◼   ► stand. I, I think it's interesting, because he was sick at the time, it was even a little surprising.

00:53:09 ◼   ► I think he was actually on a medical leave at the time in 2010. So he died.

00:53:15 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer** Yeah, he might not have been CEO back then.

00:53:18 ◼   ► **Ezra Kleinman** He died at that point. He died in 2011. So he lived about another year and a half.

00:53:24 ◼   ► But he obviously, in hindsight, we now know he wasn't doing well. And he was very thin. And so

00:53:31 ◼   ► we all from the outside suspected might be what actually happened, a recurrence of cancer.

00:53:37 ◼   ► And we've heard stories that, yes, it was physical, because he was frail, that he needed

00:53:46 ◼   ► to sit. He couldn't stand for a whole keynote. But I think that even if he had been healthy,

00:53:51 ◼   ► I think that there still would have been a—they still would have had the chair. I think he

00:53:55 ◼   ► still would have demoed the iPad sitting down. It just wouldn't have been out of necessity.

00:54:00 ◼   ► It would have been, like you said, this is—it's just the posture to use it.

00:54:06 ◼   ► I mean, you can. I mean, I certainly walk around with an iPad a lot. It's, you know,

00:54:13 ◼   ► certainly a better device for walking around with than a laptop, but, you know, it's definitely

00:54:18 ◼   ► more of a sit-down type thing.

00:54:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:21 ◼   ► What a great story. Trying to think about what else I have on the old agenda.

00:54:28 ◼   ► Were you at that?

00:54:29 ◼   ► Yes, I was there.

00:54:30 ◼   ► Okay.

00:54:31 ◼   ► I started going to, the one that I was lucky for

00:54:36 ◼   ► was the iPhone, the Macworld Expo,

00:54:41 ◼   ► 'cause that was, that might have been the first,

00:54:43 ◼   ► it might have been the first Macworld keynote

00:54:45 ◼   ► that I saw in person, like 2006, or I guess it was 2007?

00:54:50 ◼   ► Yeah, 2007 was right around the time

00:54:54 ◼   ► when it was not ridiculous that during Fireball's revenue

00:55:00 ◼   ► could justify me buying an airplane across the country. So I was within, I don't think

00:55:08 ◼   ► I was at the one a year prior to that. I think I was watching on, so it was pretty cool that

00:55:13 ◼   ► I got to see that one. But by 2010, I think I was in regular attendance for all these

00:55:18 ◼   ► events. It was weird. It was fun. The thing I remember specifically about it was being

00:55:23 ◼   ► in the room. And it was a topic of conversation. Do you think Steve Jobs will be here? Do you

00:55:30 ◼   ► think he'll be here? Because we knew he was on leave. So I didn't have my hopes up. I

00:55:36 ◼   ► thought, "Well, probably not." But then when he came out, it was like a moment in

00:55:42 ◼   ► the room because it was a surprise. Nobody knew if it was going to be Steve or not. And

00:55:47 ◼   ► I think he said something to the effect of, "Hey, I didn't want to miss this." Tim's

00:55:51 ◼   ► You know Tim's doing a great job running the company. I didn't want to miss this event though. You know, it's

00:55:56 ◼   ► We're very excited blah blah, you know

00:55:58 ◼   ► Yeah, but there was definitely it was an extra buzz because you know people knew

00:56:04 ◼   ► there was a lot of weird spending like a lot of

00:56:07 ◼   ► crazy speculation about the device before

00:56:10 ◼   ► There was a lot of speculation about the iPhone 2 but I don't think I don't think in the same weird way that that

00:56:17 ◼   ► Ended up being wrong

00:56:20 ◼   ► Yeah, because there was a lot of emphasis placed on publishing

00:56:23 ◼   ► Mmm around the yes had and like is this gonna save publishing? Yeah, and it you know, it certainly didn't know

00:56:31 ◼   ► It's successful device and it's great at many things, but it was not it was not some sort of

00:56:38 ◼   ► Gods into the publishing and it's a very Steve Jobs device

00:56:41 ◼   ► I mean in the backstory is that when he first went on a medical leave in 2009?

00:56:47 ◼   ► I think that might have been when he had the liver transplant

00:56:50 ◼   ► But when he came back to work he was obviously, you know, you know

00:56:57 ◼   ► I don't think it's I don't think it's you have to be a doctor to realize that after a liver transplant

00:57:02 ◼   ► You may not have the highest energy levels. Yeah

00:57:05 ◼   ► and

00:57:07 ◼   ► So he you know, he had limited time, you know

00:57:10 ◼   ► limited focus he couldn't you know, he you know

00:57:15 ◼   ► As you may or may not know Steve Jobs that had his fingers and a lot of a lot of the pies at Apple

00:57:19 ◼   ► When he came back after his liver transplant, he more or less was like let's do this tablet thing

00:57:24 ◼   ► You know and that was that was his baby

00:57:26 ◼   ► Yeah, and you know in hindsight what came out is so so totally Steve Jobs in some ways more than the iPhone I think

00:57:34 ◼   ► Because I think the iPhone is sort of it's so genius but it's for everybody whereas the iPad is a little bit more

00:57:43 ◼   ► Not for everybody, right? Mm-hmm

00:57:45 ◼   ► You know, I think the fact that we're still debating it, you know ten years later how much you know

00:57:52 ◼   ► How much work can you do on an iPad and stuff like that?

00:57:54 ◼   ► I think it but a lot of it, you know goes back to Steve

00:57:56 ◼   ► But you're exactly right about the publishing and that was the weird thing about being at the event to being in the press

00:58:01 ◼   ► Because there was this

00:58:03 ◼   ► consensus up

00:58:05 ◼   ► Leading up to the device that this was great journalism is in so much trouble, you know, all these people, you know

00:58:12 ◼   ► You know, literally it was it's the group of people who were there, the media people

00:58:18 ◼   ► all thought that this device was going to save their jobs. They really did. I mean,

00:58:22 ◼   ► that's not an exaggeration. They it was like, hey, what they did for the it's what they

00:58:27 ◼   ► did, you know, when the music industry was collapsing under piracy, Apple saved them

00:58:31 ◼   ► with the iTunes store, they're going to do that with this. And then we'll go back to

00:58:36 ◼   ► having a safe, secure job for the next 20 years.

00:58:41 ◼   ► And then the event came and went,

00:58:42 ◼   ► and it was really, it was griping people,

00:58:45 ◼   ► and they were like, well, wait a minute.

00:58:46 ◼   ► And then they're replaying the New York Times demo,

00:58:50 ◼   ► 'cause they did have a demo,

00:58:53 ◼   ► and the New York Times is a news publication,

00:58:56 ◼   ► but there was so many people talking,

00:58:59 ◼   ► and they were all like, well, wait,

00:59:01 ◼   ► there was nothing there about

00:59:02 ◼   ► how they're gonna make money from this.

00:59:03 ◼   ► And it was like, nope.

00:59:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:07 ◼   ► That's not their problem.

00:59:08 ◼   ► I mean, it's a nice experience.

00:59:12 ◼   ► I mean, I think reading The New York Times on an iPad

00:59:15 ◼   ► is a very nice experience in their app.

00:59:19 ◼   ► And kind of the best-- has the best parts of reading it

00:59:25 ◼   ► physically as you could do electronically.

00:59:30 ◼   ► Have you noticed this more and more?

00:59:31 ◼   ► I've noticed that-- did you ever hear

00:59:34 ◼   ► an app called Nuzzle and use easy. Yeah, heard of it. Yeah, it's really good app. And I almost

00:59:41 ◼   ► worry that I like it a lot. And I almost worry that it is like in the back of my brain. I've

00:59:48 ◼   ► got this idea that I've got a job that can't be replaced by a robot. Surely my job can't

00:59:58 ◼   ► be right. And it's like there will be days that go by where everything I posted during

01:00:03 ◼   ► Fireball I first became aware of through Nuzzle. Like basically you log in with your Twitter

01:00:09 ◼   ► credentials and you're just a glorified Nuzzle. But it's a really clever idea. So you granted

01:00:17 ◼   ► access to your Twitter account. I'm 99% sure that it does not do anything stupid like tweet

01:00:25 ◼   ► "I'm using Nuzzle, join me." Because I certainly haven't seen it in your history.

01:00:31 ◼   ► I would have deleted it in anger if that had happened. That's always my concern when

01:00:37 ◼   ► you're blogging with Twitter. I'm always—and I have no idea—irrationally afraid of it.

01:00:42 ◼   ► I'm irrationally afraid of some service tweeting one tweet from my account that says

01:00:47 ◼   ► that I'm using it.

01:00:48 ◼   ► But anyway, it just goes through all of your followers and if enough—you can adjust the

01:00:54 ◼   ► thresholds but if like three or four of the people you follow all tweet the same URL,

01:01:00 ◼   ► it bubbles up in your list and sometimes you get notifications and it seems to me like

01:01:04 ◼   ► their hit rate on whether I'm actually glad I got the notification or not is amazing.

01:01:11 ◼   ► It is absolutely amazing. It sounds like something if it was done poorly, it would it would be

01:01:16 ◼   ► infuriating, but it's done well and their hit rate on yes, I'm glad that you gave me

01:01:22 ◼   ► a notification about this news story is amazing. Anyway, the one thing that made me think about

01:01:29 ◼   ► it. As you said, the New York Times is a nice app to read. The downside to Nuzzle is that

01:01:34 ◼   ► when you're in the Nuzzle app, they don't use the modern—I'm going to mess up the

01:01:40 ◼   ► term—but you know how there's a modern way to put WebKit in an iOS app and in the

01:01:45 ◼   ► old way? The old way is just sort of a dumb WebView, and the new one is like you got a

01:01:49 ◼   ► nice little mini version of Safari. So it has your content blockers and et cetera. The

01:01:56 ◼   ► The Nuzzle one is just like an old dumb web view.

01:01:59 ◼   ► And so I see more online ads than I think I usually do

01:02:04 ◼   ► 'cause I don't try to block ads.

01:02:05 ◼   ► I just have Odd Blocker set up

01:02:07 ◼   ► just to get rid of annoying ads.

01:02:09 ◼   ► But the way that online ads are now

01:02:13 ◼   ► is like if you just touch it somehow,

01:02:16 ◼   ► it instantly takes you to the thing.

01:02:18 ◼   ► And they put them at the bottom,

01:02:20 ◼   ► which is where the sharing control auto hides, right?

01:02:25 ◼   ► So it's like the world's worst video game, trying to tap at the bottom to bring up the

01:02:32 ◼   ► sharing button but not tap the ad.

01:02:37 ◼   ► And I'm really bad at this video game.

01:02:41 ◼   ► It's like the opposite of those, like tap the monkey.

01:02:43 ◼   ► Yes, it's the opposite.

01:02:44 ◼   ► It is like you don't tap the monkey.

01:02:49 ◼   ► There are times where it seems to me like I didn't tap near the ad and yet somehow here

01:02:53 ◼   ► I am going to this stupid ad that I don't want to yeah, I'm sure the Dutch target is like way beyond I

01:02:59 ◼   ► Find it because it all this all came into my mind when you said it's I do you like reading the New York Times and

01:03:04 ◼   ► In the app and I do too and I find sometimes on their website now, especially on the phone

01:03:08 ◼   ► They have too many things in the middle of an article

01:03:12 ◼   ► Be they ads or like call outs to other

01:03:15 ◼   ► Related news stories, but meanwhile, I just want to keep reading right? I'm reading a story. I'm engaged

01:03:22 ◼   ► it's this is an interesting story and now I've got to scroll past all of this stuff and

01:03:27 ◼   ► figure out where where to rejoin the story and

01:03:31 ◼   ► I feel like their app is better at that than their website

01:03:36 ◼   ► Yeah

01:03:39 ◼   ► Actually, I canceled my subscription

01:03:42 ◼   ► Yeah, because I got mad at them but

01:03:48 ◼   ► How was it as nightmarish as people say the the downside to the New York Times is

01:03:53 ◼   ► Do they have an iTunes version or can you only subscribe through their website?

01:03:57 ◼   ► You well or call yeah, you can subscribe to the website or call I don't

01:04:04 ◼   ► Pretty almost positive. You cannot subscribe through iTunes, right? So

01:04:08 ◼   ► The New York Times has a no you get it. They make it very easy to sign up and they make it apparently very very hard

01:04:16 ◼   ► Comcast right yeah, was it hard you had to have to call the trick is that you so yeah

01:04:21 ◼   ► I mean you they say that you you have to call them and then you know be berated by somebody

01:04:26 ◼   ► To you know like trying to cajole you into into staying a subscriber

01:04:32 ◼   ► But you can also do it through web chat ah

01:04:35 ◼   ► That was right, so I did it. I did it that way

01:04:39 ◼   ► And and you still get you still get them. They still try and you know they are for you

01:04:45 ◼   ► They apologize profusely or you know, like maybe you've misunderstood what you read about the you know, the nice Nazi gentleman

01:04:51 ◼   ► But you know, here's you know, like how about if we give you like a year of like, you know

01:04:58 ◼   ► I'll reduce rate or something like that. It's like

01:05:00 ◼   ► That's one Nazi too many one is one too many

01:05:06 ◼   ► Did you watch the the State of the Union

01:05:11 ◼   ► Trumpy I try

01:05:14 ◼   ► There is not enough liquor in the house for me to do that and there's a lot of liquor in this house

01:05:19 ◼   ► I missed it live I was

01:05:23 ◼   ► Traveling and I did it I tivo did I had a TV. I requested that she tivo

01:05:29 ◼   ► Tivo and

01:05:34 ◼   ► cracked open a beer

01:05:36 ◼   ► and I started I started just a beer and I started watching and

01:05:42 ◼   ► uh i was okay with the the five minutes later you're shaking martini i i was okay with the opening

01:05:50 ◼   ► and and it's like you know i'm i don't i don't like the guy i i didn't like george w bush either

01:05:58 ◼   ► and but i always watched george w i always watch the state of the union i feel like it's something

01:06:02 ◼   ► you know the civic responsibility yeah civic responsibility and when george w bush would

01:06:07 ◼   ► get up there and dick cheney's behind him because the vice president sits behind him

01:06:12 ◼   ► I would think, "I don't like these guys." But I thought to myself, "This is the nature

01:06:18 ◼   ► of a democracy, though. I've got decades ahead, and there will be times when there's

01:06:24 ◼   ► a president who I like and respect, and there will be presidents who I disagree with, and

01:06:29 ◼   ► that's just the way it goes." So I was okay with that part of it. Like, I don't

01:06:33 ◼   ► like Trump. I don't like Mike Pence. I think he's really weird. I think they're doing

01:06:38 ◼   ► bad things. But the whole intro part, you know, like, here he is, President of the United

01:06:43 ◼   ► States, and he comes in and people are clapping and he's soaking it up. But then he starts

01:06:47 ◼   ► talking. And then he opened his mouth. He he did this thing, Amy, why Amy was already

01:06:54 ◼   ► asleep, but she watched some of it live and she had to stop to I don't know how far I

01:06:59 ◼   ► got into I think I got about 20 minutes, I had to turn it off. And it was it was either

01:07:03 ◼   ► that or like you said, go make a martini. Bush used to make me angry too. But I did

01:07:08 ◼   ► watch a few of his at least, and I would, you know, like, yell at the television and stuff like that,

01:07:13 ◼   ► but I could watch him. But I can't even listen to him.

01:07:18 ◼   ► The thing that got me—and Amy noted the same thing, and she's like, "Did you notice this thing

01:07:22 ◼   ► where he'd say something and it would be an applause line for, like, the Republicans in

01:07:27 ◼   ► the audience, and they would break into the speech with applause, and when that would happen,

01:07:35 ◼   ► he would back away from the podium and clap himself. And you can just imagine the way,

01:07:41 ◼   ► you know, like the Trumpy way that he like kind of takes two steps back and gets a smirk on his

01:07:46 ◼   ► face and he starts clapping for himself. He clapped in his own speech. Like that. I couldn't

01:07:53 ◼   ► take it. I had to shut it off. It was just, it was torture. I really, and the other thing that

01:08:01 ◼   ► got me was it was it was a bizarre combination of he would say things that it's clearly not

01:08:08 ◼   ► that's not what you're doing you're you you just i don't know you say you're protecting the

01:08:14 ◼   ► environment you're not actually actually you're the epa chief is actually like ripping out

01:08:19 ◼   ► regulations to keep water clean you're not doing selling off public you know vast swaths of public

01:08:25 ◼   ► land right you're saying that you're doing this great work for the public land and the environment

01:08:30 ◼   ► and you're actually doing the opposite. And that made it, I couldn't take it.

01:08:33 ◼   ► And then the other thing is that he would say things that it's like, yes,

01:08:36 ◼   ► that's exactly why I hate you.

01:08:38 ◼   ► Like he was very clear about, uh,

01:08:44 ◼   ► non white people, not, not being welcome. Like he had,

01:08:48 ◼   ► that's just the part where I had to, I had to shut it off.

01:08:51 ◼   ► It was talking about immigration and he says something like, uh,

01:08:54 ◼   ► this is for citizens,

01:08:57 ◼   ► But he's complaining about the fact that immigrants, citizens of the United States who are immigrants

01:09:02 ◼   ► from other countries are allowed to bring family members over.

01:09:07 ◼   ► He's like, "They're bringing over all of these people."

01:09:09 ◼   ► But these are—

01:09:10 ◼   ► And he, you know, he lied too, because he was, he expanded the list of people that you're

01:09:15 ◼   ► allowed to bring over.

01:09:16 ◼   ► And this is, there's another, there's a great Twitter exchange about this today.

01:09:19 ◼   ► Like there's a woman who said that he lied and, you know, because that's not true that

01:09:24 ◼   ► these all these other you know like he's more different distant relatives you're allowed to

01:09:28 ◼   ► bring in and some somebody actually actually heard her actually at heard i can't say that right

01:09:37 ◼   ► obviously um and uh she just replied i'm a fucking immigration lawyer oh my god that's so great

01:09:45 ◼   ► well but do you really do what do you really know about immigration yeah right right man

01:09:52 ◼   ► - Clearly you know nothing about this,

01:09:55 ◼   ► says guy with 18 followers on Twitter.

01:09:57 ◼   ► - Right, actually.

01:09:59 ◼   ► Oh my God.

01:10:02 ◼   ► All right, let me take a break here

01:10:02 ◼   ► and thank our last remaining sponsor of the show,

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01:12:48 ◼   ► Anything else? What else is going on? How about the Super Bowl? You excited about the

01:12:51 ◼   ► Super Bowl?

01:12:53 ◼   ► No.

01:12:54 ◼   ► It's weird being a non-Eagles fan in Philadelphia with the Eagles in the Super Bowl. The city

01:13:03 ◼   ► is nuts and deserves it.

01:13:05 ◼   ► Oh, I would imagine.

01:13:07 ◼   ► Because Philadelphia is sort of a long-suffering town.

01:13:11 ◼   ► The last big team championship was the Phillies in 2008.

01:13:16 ◼   ► And then prior to that, I swear to God, I think it was, I'm not making this up, I think

01:13:20 ◼   ► it was the 1983 Sixers.

01:13:23 ◼   ► So it's quite a long stretch there.

01:13:26 ◼   ► Whereas when I was a kid, Philly was like championship city.

01:13:30 ◼   ► The Flyers won in '77, the Phillies won in '80, the Sixers were fantastic every year.

01:13:37 ◼   ► won in '83. And then they had this long stretch. And the Eagles have never won a Super Bowl.

01:13:42 ◼   ► They've won—the weird thing about the Super Bowl is that they only started calling it the Super

01:13:48 ◼   ► Bowl 52 years ago. Prior to that, it was just the NFL championship game. So the Eagles won that

01:13:53 ◼   ► at some point in the '60s, but the '60s is a long time ago.

01:13:57 ◼   ► So a bit. And the Patriots, I think the Patriots have won once or at least. So there's a very

01:14:10 ◼   ► interesting, you know, Boston and Philly are good natural rival towns. It's not quite up

01:14:16 ◼   ► to the level of like New York and Philly. New York and Philly was pretty, it's pretty

01:14:21 ◼   ► always pretty exciting. But Boston's pretty good. It's such a strange mixture of one team

01:14:29 ◼   ► that is literally there every single year.

01:14:32 ◼   ► Yeah, right, right. And yeah, I mean, and now you I mean, it's funny is like, I think

01:14:37 ◼   ► for some reason, Hank has latched on to the Patriots. I don't I don't I think maybe it's

01:14:41 ◼   ► because his cousin who he loves, my brother lives in Vermont, and he, so my nephew tends

01:14:49 ◼   ► two like Boston area teams so he's a big Red Sox fan and um and I don't I don't know if he's like

01:14:55 ◼   ► much of a Patriots fan frankly though um but I think maybe Hank has like uh

01:14:59 ◼   ► got the gotten the idea that he is um and I also think it's a it's just like he knows that it's

01:15:05 ◼   ► something that makes people mad so so he likes to say you know like boy I hope the Patriots

01:15:12 ◼   ► beat so you know whoever um so he's he's rooting for the he's rooting for the Patriots which is you

01:15:18 ◼   ► you know, I think clearly the wrong team to root for but it's a good feeling I my

01:15:22 ◼   ► Beloved Dallas Cowboys used to be that team, you know in the 90s

01:15:26 ◼   ► They were almost unbeaten

01:15:28 ◼   ► The only team that could beat him was the San Francisco 49ers

01:15:30 ◼   ► and then whichever there was like a five-year run in there where whoever won the NFC championship between

01:15:36 ◼   ► San Fran and Dallas would then go on to steamroll

01:15:39 ◼   ► The Buffalo Bills. Yes. Yeah

01:15:47 ◼   ► It's such a strange dichotomy though. The Eagles fans are so desperate for a championship and and I honestly I it's a football town

01:15:55 ◼   ► I think of all the teams in Philly the one that has the most fans is the Eagles

01:15:59 ◼   ► People are nuts for the Eagles here. They're in particularly nuts for this team, right any Eagles team

01:16:05 ◼   ► It was going to Super Bowl would be popular

01:16:07 ◼   ► But they really there seem to be some characters on this team that really that the city just loves. Yeah

01:16:12 ◼   ► There's a lot of Eagles fans in New Jersey - Oh tons

01:16:15 ◼   ► I mean like I would think that they're more I don't know the demographics

01:16:18 ◼   ► But I would think there are more Eagles fans in New Jersey than there are like Giants fans. Ah

01:16:21 ◼   ► That's you know, it's exactly what you think geographically, you know, there's parts of it

01:16:26 ◼   ► So just you know, they're North this yeah, you know further north of New Jersey is you know

01:16:31 ◼   ► It's like which networks do you get you get do you get New York channels or Philly channels?

01:16:35 ◼   ► the lousy parts of New Jersey for the Giants

01:16:38 ◼   ► parts of the Eagles I

01:16:43 ◼   ► Forget his first name, but it's you know, you know how he longed the TV announcer and used to please we were kids

01:16:48 ◼   ► He was a all pro and the Raiders. His son is on the team. I think he's Chris long

01:16:53 ◼   ► I think that's his name, but he donated his his whole salary to like schools

01:16:59 ◼   ► He's you know, like in the tenth year of his career and he's you know, he's like I've made tons of money playing football

01:17:05 ◼   ► So here I'll just give my money only donate my old salary this year to like schools

01:17:09 ◼   ► Like people love this guy, of course, right? I mean, that's amazing. What a pretty cool thing to do

01:17:15 ◼   ► So anyway, I fear for the soul of this city if they if they lose

01:17:20 ◼   ► In the property, I don't think

01:17:24 ◼   ► If they win, I think that it might I think the property might be more of a problem if they win

01:17:30 ◼   ► I think that if they lose people are just it's gonna just crush their they won't have the the spirit to go riot

01:17:35 ◼   ► Yeah

01:17:37 ◼   ► usually yeah usually i mean the one the one uh counterexample i can think of that rule is is uh

01:17:43 ◼   ► vancouver right didn't vancouver lost the oh yeah yeah championship yes like trash to the place

01:17:49 ◼   ► yeah really to really trash the place i mean like like wow i mean like like calling it a riot was

01:17:55 ◼   ► not an exaggeration that was bad news i mean and i don't get i know i don't i don't sanction either

01:18:02 ◼   ► one, really. But when I kind of understand—I feel like I understand the winning thing a little bit

01:18:07 ◼   ► more, maybe? Which doesn't—maybe that doesn't make sense.

01:18:10 ◼   ► Ted

01:18:10 ◼   ► Dave: Did you see the thing where they have to grease the poles here in Philly? The Crisco

01:18:15 ◼   ► cops? It's like an Italian thing. It comes from South Philly. In Italy, there's a tradition

01:18:27 ◼   ► of if there's some holiday in Italy, like in the Godfather, there's going to be singing

01:18:35 ◼   ► and dancing in a parade. And one of the traditional contests is like climbing up a greased pole.

01:18:45 ◼   ► Who can climb to the top of a greased pole? So the fact that the cops are greasing the

01:18:50 ◼   ► poles, that's not really stopping anybody. I think I'm stealing Paul Kefas's—

01:18:54 ◼   ► It's just more of a challenge.

01:18:55 ◼   ► Paul Kefas has tweeted me a thing about how it's like a tradition in South Philly Italian

01:19:01 ◼   ► festivals to climb a greased pole. He's like, "They train for this!"

01:19:04 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:19:06 ◼   ► - Good luck with that.

01:19:10 ◼   ► - I remember when the Phillies won in 2008,

01:19:14 ◼   ► I went out and the big street here is Broad Street

01:19:17 ◼   ► where people go to celebrate.

01:19:20 ◼   ► And there was a young man who was at the top of a light pole

01:19:23 ◼   ► and there was a cop standing at the foot of the base,

01:19:27 ◼   ► a woman, and I said to her, I said,

01:19:29 ◼   ► "Are you just waiting for him to come down

01:19:30 ◼   ► "so you can write him a ticket?"

01:19:31 ◼   ► And she goes, "Yep."

01:19:32 ◼   ► And I was like, and you're just going to wait. And she's like, yep. I told him not to go

01:19:38 ◼   ► up. She was like, I gave him a chance and he, that's great. I've got a theory. Here's

01:19:46 ◼   ► my theory. My, my, my, are you going to watch the game? Do you watch the Superbowl? Yeah,

01:19:51 ◼   ► we'll probably, yeah, we usually, we usually watch just because it's just, and yeah, so

01:19:57 ◼   ► may actually go over to Karen's parents' house or their apartment and watch with them.

01:20:03 ◼   ► Here's my theory. I come up with a theory about why the Patriots will lose every year,

01:20:08 ◼   ► and I'm often wrong, much to the detriment of my wagering. But I've got it.

01:20:14 ◼   ► That's why you had to go to the bank.

01:20:16 ◼   ► That's why I had to go to the bank. I think I've got this one figured out. We'll see how this

01:20:21 ◼   ► stands out. But here's my theory, Jon. My theory is that I salute the Patriots for being very good

01:20:27 ◼   ► every year. And that's hard to do in any sport. And it's particularly hard in the NFL. The NFL

01:20:33 ◼   ► is a sport, even if you're not a fan. It's a sport where teams come out of nowhere. Like in the team

01:20:38 ◼   ► that was good last year might not be good this year, just one year to the next. The Eagles were

01:20:43 ◼   ► like seven and nine last year. This year, they were 13 and three. They're heading to the Super

01:20:47 ◼   ► Bowl. It happens all the time. Somehow the New England Patriots under Bill Belichick and Tom

01:20:52 ◼   ► Brady. God damn it, they're good every year. So I salute them for that. No other team has a stretch

01:20:59 ◼   ► like they've had in the last 15 years. But my theory is that the price of being very good every

01:21:07 ◼   ► year means that they are never great. Because to be great, you have to load up for one year,

01:21:13 ◼   ► and then you lose the guys next year. I looked up there, the Belichick-Brady teams, the final

01:21:19 ◼   ► score of their Super Bowls, win or lose. It's like three, three, four, three point losses to the

01:21:26 ◼   ► Giants, a four point win. Every game is three or four points. It's always close. They never have

01:21:31 ◼   ► one of those teams that loads up and wins 55 to 10 or something like that. So that's my theory,

01:21:38 ◼   ► is that they're always in close games. You're going to try and beat the spread?

01:21:41 ◼   ► Well, the Eagles are getting four and a half points. So I think it's a sound financial

01:21:45 ◼   ► investment to wager on the eagles. And even if you think, even if you think,

01:21:52 ◼   ► you can't bet on eagles because somehow, some way, Belichick and Brady, those two evil geniuses,

01:21:59 ◼   ► are going to find a way to win. You might be right, but they'll find a way to win by like

01:22:02 ◼   ► three points. Right. So that's my famous last words. So okay. All right. I will look forward

01:22:09 ◼   ► With interest

01:22:11 ◼   ► John moltz, thank you so much for being on the show good luck this Sunday

01:22:18 ◼   ► Everybody can get all the moltz they want at

01:22:22 ◼   ► Where you got the turn this car around turning this car around and the rebound and moltz at Twitter moltz

01:22:30 ◼   ► good old moltz