The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► I did the thing that I said I was going to do. I don't know if you listen to my show with Rich Siegel, but I said I had to use a dongle to go from this Onyx Blackjack USB device to the thing.

00:00:15 ◼   ► I mean, by the time the show is over, by the time I'm done doing the talk show, it's recursive.

00:00:26 ◼   ► By the time I'm done, I'll have about four or five hours of backloaded backstory about

00:00:36 ◼   ► the USB interface to Skype.

00:00:39 ◼   ► And that'll be it.

00:00:40 ◼   ► That'll be it.

00:00:41 ◼   ► It'll be the final show.

00:00:42 ◼   ► You'll know it's over when I've got about four hours of backstory.

00:00:47 ◼   ► I'll record two hours of it. I'll leave two hours of it unsaid,

00:00:51 ◼   ► just to give people that, you know, uh, you know,

00:00:54 ◼   ► something to hope for in the future. It'll all be about, uh,

00:00:58 ◼   ► USB interfaces, but I'll tell you what, I finally did it.

00:01:02 ◼   ► I bought that cable that I was talking about, which is USB B.

00:01:06 ◼   ► I don't know what the hell it is. Yeah. USB B,

00:01:11 ◼   ► which is the dumbest port ever, right? I mean, who that? Why,

00:01:14 ◼   ► why does that even exist? But anyway,

00:01:18 ◼   ► but anyway, I got USB B to USB C.

00:01:23 ◼   ► So there's no dongles. You are listening to me, René,

00:01:27 ◼   ► with no dongles. There,

00:01:31 ◼   ► there is not a single dongle between my voice in your ears and the

00:01:35 ◼   ► ears of our hundreds of listeners.

00:01:39 ◼   ► I did the same thing. I was heard you talking about it and I ordered the USB B to the USB

00:01:43 ◼   ► C because my, I have this fancy high end USB pre two amp and it still has a damn USB B

00:01:51 ◼   ► port on it.

00:01:53 ◼   ► Oh man. Hey, while we're on it, while we're on the topic, what's, what's the name of this

00:01:59 ◼   ► thing that so so there actually is some news that has broken in the last few

00:02:09 ◼   ► weeks and it's this consortium I don't know what you want to call it with the

00:02:17 ◼   ► Amazon and Google and Apple and they're gonna try chip right basically it seems

00:02:26 ◼   ► like Apple is spearheading it it it kind of seems like it's coming from Apple but

00:02:33 ◼   ► basically it sounds like it's an idea to make a home connected devices like hey

00:02:47 ◼   ► dingus or hey uh uh hey google or whatever your your favorite uh dinguses devices

00:02:57 ◼   ► uh sort of make it like a usb type thing where interoperable right where they're interoperable

00:03:06 ◼   ► and i gotta tell you if they pull it off no one's gonna be happier than me i am we've got

00:03:14 ◼   ► a whole bunch. I, you know, this show is, you know, it's supposed to be about technology.

00:03:22 ◼   ► It's not supposed to be about my personal life. I'll just tell you though, I'll just,

00:03:25 ◼   ► I'll peel back a layer of the Gruber family life. And my wife loves Christmas trees, loves them.

00:03:33 ◼   ► I absolutely loves them. We've got, I don't know. I mean, we've got more Christmas trees than you

00:03:39 ◼   ► can believe. But what we've got is every single one of them is plugged in to a dingus that goes

00:03:47 ◼   ► into the light socket so that we can say to our Amazon dingus, "Hey, Amazon dingus,

00:03:58 ◼   ► turn off the Christmas trees," or "Hey, Amazon dingus, turn on the Christmas trees," or like,

00:04:07 ◼   ► Hey Amazon dingus, turn off Jonas's Christmas tree and then it turns off the Christmas tree

00:04:15 ◼   ► in Jonas's room.

00:04:16 ◼   ► And yes, our son has Christmas tree in his room.

00:04:20 ◼   ► Why is Christmas tree?

00:04:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:23 ◼   ► And, and it's, you know, I, I, I know that there are some light socket things, you know,

00:04:31 ◼   ► our power socket things that, that work with Siri, but it was easy.

00:04:35 ◼   ► The easiest thing to do was to just buy the Amazon ones and,

00:04:40 ◼   ► and they're from Amazon. They're pretty easy to set up.

00:04:44 ◼   ► This is the second year we've had them. They were pretty easy to,

00:04:50 ◼   ► and I labeled them, but you know, some of them, you know, didn't,

00:04:54 ◼   ► didn't survive the year with the, I don't know why,

00:04:58 ◼   ► but it wasn't that bad to reset them up a year later.

00:05:03 ◼   ► It could have been easier in my opinion, but yeah.

00:05:06 ◼   ► - But I started with the HomeKit one

00:05:10 ◼   ► and because it was called light,

00:05:11 ◼   ► when I just destroyed my entire ability

00:05:13 ◼   ► to turn lights on and off.

00:05:15 ◼   ► So I had to rename it.

00:05:16 ◼   ► I ended up making a scene.

00:05:18 ◼   ► So before I would just say turn off the lights

00:05:20 ◼   ► and we turn off all the lights.

00:05:21 ◼   ► But then when I got this thing,

00:05:22 ◼   ► I would say turn off the lights

00:05:23 ◼   ► and it would just turn off the nightlight

00:05:25 ◼   ► on the stupid plug.

00:05:26 ◼   ► So I made a scene and I renamed it to Ho Ho Ho for Christmas.

00:05:30 ◼   ► But then I did the inevitable thing

00:05:32 ◼   ► and now I've renamed it to,

00:05:33 ◼   ► and now I have a machine gun.

00:05:35 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:05:37 ◼   ► - Which ties in to me when my cousin Hans,

00:05:42 ◼   ► who unfortunately, you know what, he gets a bad rap.

00:05:47 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:05:49 ◼   ► He was, you know, trying to make an honest--

00:05:51 ◼   ► - He was an entrepreneur.

00:05:52 ◼   ► - Trying to make, yeah, he's an entrepreneur,

00:05:53 ◼   ► trying to make an honest transaction in Los Angeles,

00:05:56 ◼   ► you know, back in the late '80s.

00:06:00 ◼   ► But but anyway, it this chip thing, if they can pull it off, and if Apple can lead the

00:06:10 ◼   ► way, and it's, it's interesting to me, I don't know where it's gonna go.

00:06:17 ◼   ► But the thing that's interesting to me is that Apple's initial, it's like the announcement

00:06:22 ◼   ► came and Apple says, Hey, and by the way, here's this thing we have on GitHub.

00:06:27 ◼   ► thing that they have on GitHub is like this whole thing about like device security.

00:06:32 ◼   ► I give it I give it at least a 50 50 shot as as turning into sort of the USB of

00:06:45 ◼   ► internet connected device assistant directed device protocols. I don't know what to call it.

00:06:57 ◼   ► - You kind of, like if you use Siri or HomeKit,

00:06:59 ◼   ► you kind of have to hope that this works

00:07:01 ◼   ► because given Apple's way of making products,

00:07:03 ◼   ► their hyper-focused way of making products,

00:07:05 ◼   ► they don't even make a router anymore.

00:07:07 ◼   ► And every other company not only bought a router,

00:07:10 ◼   ► like Amazon bought Eero and Samsung bought SmartThings,

00:07:13 ◼   ► and Google has the Google Wi-Fi system.

00:07:16 ◼   ► - And they're advertising it.

00:07:16 ◼   ► - But they have all the products.

00:07:18 ◼   ► They have every product.

00:07:19 ◼   ► They have their own locks, their own lights,

00:07:20 ◼   ► their own, they've bought the entire ecosystem.

00:07:22 ◼   ► And coincidentally, they don't support HomeKit,

00:07:25 ◼   ► even if they previously announced that they would.

00:07:27 ◼   ► - Isn't that the most interesting?

00:07:32 ◼   ► To me, that is the single most interesting

00:07:35 ◼   ► derivative of the whole angle is, okay.

00:07:42 ◼   ► So,

00:07:43 ◼   ► where we stand at the end of 2019

00:07:49 ◼   ► is Apple is interested enough in home connected devices

00:07:53 ◼   ► that they're going to get involved in this new industry

00:07:58 ◼   ► attempt at a standard called chip, where they can, you know,

00:08:03 ◼   ► somebody can make like a wall socket and they can,

00:08:08 ◼   ► if this all works out, they'll adhere to the standard.

00:08:12 ◼   ► And then you could use it with Alexa. You could use it with Google.

00:08:16 ◼   ► You could use it with Siri. You could use it with Samsung's dingus.

00:08:21 ◼   ► What's the Samsung dingus called?

00:08:23 ◼   ► He Oh, yeah, nobody uses it.

00:08:26 ◼   ► Yeah. Hero. What's his name?

00:08:28 ◼   ► I don't know whatever his name is, but you could use it with anybody.

00:08:32 ◼   ► And and you and I could start a company that would have our own thing

00:08:37 ◼   ► and we could adhere to the standard and all these things could

00:08:41 ◼   ► could work with our new product.

00:08:45 ◼   ► And that wouldn't that be great because Bixby had to look it up Bixby.

00:08:50 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:08:51 ◼   ► - Bill.

00:08:52 ◼   ► I always think of, well.

00:08:54 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:08:56 ◼   ► - Well, it was the Siri people, right?

00:08:57 ◼   ► Like they made it and then Samsung bought it

00:08:59 ◼   ► and renamed it to Bixby.

00:09:00 ◼   ► - But, I go back to,

00:09:03 ◼   ► - Bill Bixby.

00:09:05 ◼   ► - It always goes back to Bill.

00:09:07 ◼   ► I always have like this,

00:09:08 ◼   ► everything goes back to the '70s for me.

00:09:12 ◼   ► - And the music at the end of the Hulk

00:09:13 ◼   ► when he's just lonely and walking off

00:09:14 ◼   ► into the distance again.

00:09:15 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:09:18 ◼   ► Why didn't his pants pop off?

00:09:20 ◼   ► He had stretch pants before his time

00:09:24 ◼   ► But they weren't stretch pants. Nope

00:09:27 ◼   ► like if I if I were afflicted with it with a with a

00:09:34 ◼   ► terrible condition where I had been hit by gamma radiation and

00:09:39 ◼   ► if I got upset I

00:09:42 ◼   ► Turned into a green monster

00:09:47 ◼   ► and tripled in size because I turned into a Hulk.

00:09:52 ◼   ► I swear to God, every day, Rene,

00:09:57 ◼   ► I wouldn't wear anything but stretch pants.

00:10:01 ◼   ► - But yoga pants all the way down.

00:10:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, but he didn't wear, he never wore,

00:10:05 ◼   ► he wore regular pants, but the pants never popped off.

00:10:09 ◼   ► It would have been a very different show, I suppose.

00:10:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, the Tarantino version

00:10:15 ◼   ► would have been super different.

00:10:16 ◼   ► Because you gotta think if everything gets big,

00:10:18 ◼   ► if your biceps get big and your neck gets big

00:10:22 ◼   ► and your thighs get big,

00:10:23 ◼   ► you gotta figure everything gets big.

00:10:26 ◼   ► - But like all the bodybuilders at the time,

00:10:27 ◼   ► he just didn't hit his legs hard at the gym.

00:10:29 ◼   ► He ignored it for pectoral and bicep growth.

00:10:32 ◼   ► - It would have been a very different show

00:10:34 ◼   ► if all the clothes came off.

00:10:37 ◼   ► But anyway, it's the new year.

00:10:41 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:10:45 ◼   ► Hey, you know, this is probably the last show.

00:10:49 ◼   ► Well, probably, where by probably,

00:10:51 ◼   ► I mean absolutely 100%, definitely.

00:10:55 ◼   ► This is the last show of the decade.

00:10:57 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:10:58 ◼   ► Right here on the talk show,

00:11:00 ◼   ► we've been broadcasting since, I don't know how long,

00:11:04 ◼   ► but here we go, last show of the decade.

00:11:07 ◼   ► I might as well take a break right now

00:11:11 ◼   ► and thank our first sponsor.

00:11:13 ◼   ► It's the holiday season.

00:11:15 ◼   ► I feel like, you know, you gotta be a little loose

00:11:18 ◼   ► on the last show of the decade.

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00:12:11 ◼   ► I've got the bigger one because I don't travel overseas that much.

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00:13:25 ◼   ► seems like brand new. It is absolutely unbelievable. And

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00:15:16 ◼   ► All right, I feel like we're three parentheticals in.

00:15:23 ◼   ► Where were we?

00:15:24 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:15:25 ◼   ► - We're so deep.

00:15:26 ◼   ► We were talking about Chip still.

00:15:27 ◼   ► - Oh, Chip.

00:15:28 ◼   ► All right, so I hope it works out

00:15:32 ◼   ► because I do feel like if you just buy like a $20 thing

00:15:37 ◼   ► that you stick in a socket and all it is is a power plug

00:15:42 ◼   ► to put your Christmas trees in.

00:15:43 ◼   ► It should work with all of your,

00:15:47 ◼   ► whatever your favorite voice assistant is.

00:15:51 ◼   ► In theory, this is great.

00:15:54 ◼   ► And I feel like Apple's source code dump,

00:15:58 ◼   ► which is a very, you know, very much security based is a very good sign that Apple at least

00:16:08 ◼   ► is thinking, hey, let's get everybody to adopt this stuff. Let's get them to do it in a way

00:16:14 ◼   ► that is secure and private. And, you know, it let's not try to lock anybody into Siri

00:16:25 ◼   ► Versus these other things. Let's just you know, if you're if you're making a $20 thing to plug your Christmas tree into

00:16:31 ◼   ► Let's just make it work with everything

00:16:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's very practical like Apple was late to market because they cared about security and everyone were throwing out these cameras and

00:16:42 ◼   ► These devices that had absolutely no

00:16:44 ◼   ► Security concerns and everyone made wired articles about how he could hack your house

00:16:47 ◼   ► All of a sudden and a lot of them didn't care because they were selling product and it was

00:16:52 ◼   ► convenient for them to think about security.

00:16:55 ◼   ► But I think Apple is approaching this a lot

00:16:56 ◼   ► like they approach WebKit where they can't be dominant

00:17:00 ◼   ► and they can't make every product themselves.

00:17:02 ◼   ► So what they can best do, it's like that old joke

00:17:04 ◼   ► that everyone makes everything proprietary

00:17:07 ◼   ► that makes them money, but then open source is everything

00:17:09 ◼   ► that makes their competitors money

00:17:10 ◼   ► because that's the best strategy.

00:17:12 ◼   ► And if they make this alliance,

00:17:14 ◼   ► then at least they can take part,

00:17:15 ◼   ► they can benefit from the overall ecosystem

00:17:17 ◼   ► and hopefully donate something to security end of it as well.

00:17:20 ◼   ► - You know, it's an interesting comparison to WebKit

00:17:22 ◼   ► because in a weird way they do kind of dominate with WebKit

00:17:26 ◼   ► because WebKit's the only web rendering engine

00:17:31 ◼   ► on the iPhone and the iPhone,

00:17:33 ◼   ► I don't know if you've heard about it,

00:17:35 ◼   ► but it's kind of a thing.

00:17:36 ◼   ► - Well sure, but when they did it,

00:17:37 ◼   ► like when Milton did that whole project,

00:17:39 ◼   ► it was by no means gonna be a dominant.

00:17:41 ◼   ► - Right, because it was years before the iPhone

00:17:43 ◼   ► even existed, right.

00:17:44 ◼   ► But I feel like that's where they kind of are with Siri,

00:17:51 ◼   ► where they've got ambitious goals,

00:17:56 ◼   ► and I think they get a bad rap, I really do.

00:18:00 ◼   ► And this is not trying to be an Apple cheerleader

00:18:04 ◼   ► in the very least.

00:18:05 ◼   ► I think Siri has gotten so much better

00:18:09 ◼   ► that it is one of the most,

00:18:12 ◼   ► here, it's the decade in review.

00:18:15 ◼   ► I feel like one of the underreported stories

00:18:20 ◼   ► of the decade in review is how much better Syria has gotten in the last three or four

00:18:25 ◼   ► years.

00:18:27 ◼   ► It still isn't great.

00:18:29 ◼   ► But part of what makes it frustrating is that it still has so far to go.

00:18:35 ◼   ► And part of what makes it something that people think just plain sucks is that it's based

00:18:43 ◼   ► on their first impressions from three or four years ago.

00:18:47 ◼   ► I feel and I really, you know, that's human nature.

00:18:51 ◼   ► But I feel like, you know, you give something x number of chances and x is some

00:18:56 ◼   ► reasonable integer, like four or five, six. And if,

00:19:01 ◼   ► if it lets you down that number of times, you're just like, forget it.

00:19:04 ◼   ► I'm not going to use it anymore. And people give up on it. And then three,

00:19:08 ◼   ► four years later, the thing that, you know, like Siri is so much better,

00:19:13 ◼   ► but people don't try it because they think,

00:19:16 ◼   ► ah, it never understands what I say.

00:19:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, the thing for me is that there's just,

00:19:22 ◼   ► there's still even now an inconsistency to it.

00:19:25 ◼   ► And I've joked about it, like I can say call my mom

00:19:27 ◼   ► and nine times it works perfectly.

00:19:28 ◼   ► The 10th time it calls some hairdresser

00:19:30 ◼   ► that I've never heard of.

00:19:32 ◼   ► And it just, it makes me think there's a server

00:19:33 ◼   ► in Eddie Q's closet that he's never updated,

00:19:35 ◼   ► but it's still somehow attached to the CDN

00:19:38 ◼   ► and we all hit it once every 10 to 20 times.

00:19:41 ◼   ► And it's just, it's flabbergasted.

00:19:43 ◼   ► But I think you're right, because Siri is Assistant One,

00:19:46 ◼   ► it's built into every iPhone,

00:19:48 ◼   ► and you see it with every new phone

00:19:49 ◼   ► and every new iOS update,

00:19:51 ◼   ► that if they can make compelling features,

00:19:53 ◼   ► when you do that setup buddy every time,

00:19:56 ◼   ► they have a chance to hook you in.

00:19:57 ◼   ► They just gotta figure out

00:19:58 ◼   ► what those compelling things are.

00:19:59 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:20:00 ◼   ► So the chip thing, I hope it works out, but we'll see.

00:20:06 ◼   ► But it would be great if you could just confidently buy

00:20:12 ◼   ► wall socket adapters from IKEA and know that they'll work with all of the major

00:20:18 ◼   ► Assistants, you know, it would be great. It would be absolutely great. I don't know how they make that happen

00:20:24 ◼   ► I feel like it's a little bit more, you know

00:20:27 ◼   ► Maybe a lot more complicated than something like USB where it's all just wires. I feel like

00:20:34 ◼   ► taking these

00:20:36 ◼   ► audio

00:20:38 ◼   ► Directions in various languages, you know and passing them through I'm sure it's more complicated

00:20:44 ◼   ► But in theory this is the way everything should be

00:20:47 ◼   ► Even just basic functionality because a lot of houses are mixed assistant houses now and if you have an Alexa at home

00:20:54 ◼   ► But then you go out for a jog wearing your air pods and Apple watch

00:20:57 ◼   ► You should still be able to say turn my thermostat on or turn on the lights on your way home

00:21:02 ◼   ► And it shouldn't matter which assistant you're using at the time. Well, that's us. We're a mixed assistant house. Yeah, we've got the

00:21:08 ◼   ► We've got the Alexa, we've got the HomePods,

00:21:12 ◼   ► we've obviously got a bunch of iPhones

00:21:15 ◼   ► and iPads laying around.

00:21:17 ◼   ► But like I said, our Christmas tree wall socket things

00:21:21 ◼   ► are all only on the Alexa system.

00:21:25 ◼   ► And at times--

00:21:27 ◼   ► - You've got OK Google on your Pixel phone.

00:21:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, but I don't have that hooked up to my phone.

00:21:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:21:34 ◼   ► But, you know, it would be great if everything

00:21:39 ◼   ► could work with everything, the way that USB does.

00:21:43 ◼   ► If you have a charger, if you just plug it in

00:21:48 ◼   ► and you have a thing that goes from this plug

00:21:50 ◼   ► to that device, then it can charge anything.

00:21:53 ◼   ► - Like I'm sure they'll screw it up.

00:21:54 ◼   ► They'll say, oh, that's chip one compatible

00:21:56 ◼   ► and you need chip 1.2 compatibility on there.

00:21:58 ◼   ► They'll screw us up some way,

00:21:59 ◼   ► but at least it'd be a beginning.

00:22:01 ◼   ► - Well, anyway, I hope it works out.

00:22:04 ◼   ► I kind of feel like it is in everybody's interests.

00:22:09 ◼   ► It's not, lock-in in theory is a competitive advantage,

00:22:13 ◼   ► but I feel like in this realm,

00:22:16 ◼   ► it really would be better for everybody

00:22:18 ◼   ► if there were a successful standard

00:22:22 ◼   ► that just let people make just basic things,

00:22:29 ◼   ► light bulbs and wall sockets and stuff

00:22:34 ◼   ► that just worked with everything,

00:22:36 ◼   ► and so they didn't have to do it.

00:22:38 ◼   ► And if Apple has already done a lot of the groundwork

00:22:42 ◼   ► on the, hey, let's make sure this is private and secure,

00:22:45 ◼   ► then I feel like these other companies

00:22:47 ◼   ► can piggyback off that and say like,

00:22:49 ◼   ► well, maybe we don't care as much about security

00:22:54 ◼   ► and privacy as Apple does,

00:22:56 ◼   ► but if they've already done the work,

00:22:58 ◼   ► why don't we piggyback off that?

00:22:59 ◼   ► That would be good.

00:23:01 ◼   ► - Also, their competitors own so much of the market,

00:23:04 ◼   ► becoming harder and harder to have just home kit stuff. Like I

00:23:07 ◼   ► remember the Natatmo doorbell looked so much better, so much

00:23:10 ◼   ► more private, so much more secure than the ring doorbell,

00:23:13 ◼   ► which we still hear horror stories about. And it was

00:23:15 ◼   ► announced last year. And I still don't think it shipped. There's

00:23:19 ◼   ► no there's not many options. So

00:23:20 ◼   ► have you been following this story about the ring? security

00:23:25 ◼   ► issues?

00:23:26 ◼   ► It's a bunch of them. Yeah, it's an interesting story to me,

00:23:32 ◼   ► because what's happened to some people who have them is absolutely horrible, horrible,

00:23:39 ◼   ► horrible, horrible stuff. So no denying that. And then ring came out a couple of days after

00:23:45 ◼   ► the story broke and said, Hey, this isn't really a security problem with our product. It's the fact

00:23:54 ◼   ► that all we have is a like to get into a ring you just need an email and a password and

00:24:04 ◼   ► so many literally millions tens millions probably hundreds of millions of people

00:24:12 ◼   ► around the world use the same email and password for multiple services because you know that's

00:24:22 ◼   ► You know, it everybody says don't do that. But you know hundreds of millions of people do that and

00:24:28 ◼   ► if one service

00:24:31 ◼   ► somewhere

00:24:34 ◼   ► Stores your password as the password which they shouldn't do in the first place, right?

00:24:40 ◼   ► It should only be stored written to disk in a hashed format

00:24:44 ◼   ► Like some Home Depot is gonna do it right somewhere, right?

00:24:47 ◼   ► Some Home Depot or I don't want to throw Home Depot into the bus

00:24:51 ◼   ► - They were one of the biggest preachers, I think, recently.

00:24:53 ◼   ► There's another one.

00:24:54 ◼   ► There's a couple really big store breaches.

00:24:56 ◼   ► - Well, then let's throw 'em under the bus.

00:24:58 ◼   ► - Yeah. (laughs)

00:24:59 ◼   ► - But somebody like Home Depot stores your password

00:25:02 ◼   ► as the actual password and the email,

00:25:06 ◼   ► and then if they get hacked,

00:25:09 ◼   ► and 20 million email and passwords get leaked,

00:25:14 ◼   ► then that hack goes out.

00:25:20 ◼   ► Any malfees out there who wants it can download the whole thing and then they can just start

00:25:29 ◼   ► trying random services with all of these email and password combinations.

00:25:34 ◼   ► It did it with Disney Plus the weekend it came out.

00:25:38 ◼   ► And got in, right?

00:25:39 ◼   ► It's crazy.

00:25:41 ◼   ► But it speaks to the fact that security experts have been saying for a long time that they

00:25:50 ◼   ► that, Hey, don't use the same password on more than one service, blah, blah,

00:25:54 ◼   ► blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:25:56 ◼   ► And they keep saying it and people keep doing it because that's what they did.

00:26:01 ◼   ► But it's like, it's not even you,

00:26:03 ◼   ► like you could be the most scrupulous person who has never told another human

00:26:08 ◼   ► soul what your magic password is that you use on multiple services.

00:26:17 ◼   ► And you don't even tell your partner,

00:26:22 ◼   ► you don't tell your kids, you don't tell your pastor,

00:26:26 ◼   ► you don't tell anybody.

00:26:29 ◼   ► It's only in your head.

00:26:31 ◼   ► But if one of those services gets hacked

00:26:34 ◼   ► and the service stores your password in plain text,

00:26:38 ◼   ► all of a sudden anybody can try that email

00:26:41 ◼   ► and password combination on ABCDEFG,

00:26:47 ◼   ► just go down the list of services that you would like to try to get a hack into.

00:26:52 ◼   ► They try your email and password and you didn't do anything wrong.

00:26:58 ◼   ► Other than the fact that you reuse the same password on more than one service,

00:27:02 ◼   ► all of a sudden you're in.

00:27:04 ◼   ► And it sounds like that's exactly what happened to these ring people, right?

00:27:08 ◼   ► Is that you get one of these ring cameras,

00:27:14 ◼   ► You put it in your house or outside or whatever.

00:27:17 ◼   ► But the one you know, the people who are obviously traumatized by this,

00:27:21 ◼   ► rightfully so, you know, are the ones who have them inside their house.

00:27:25 ◼   ► And it's it's not that the ring is easily hackable

00:27:31 ◼   ► and that if if I find out, hey, Rene Ritchie has a ring camera

00:27:36 ◼   ► and then I can just magically hack into your camera easily. No.

00:27:43 ◼   ► But it's if I have this list of 20 million email addresses and passwords and I start

00:27:51 ◼   ► randomly trying them.

00:27:53 ◼   ► So I can't target you specifically, but I might hit you randomly by going through these,

00:28:01 ◼   ► you know, millions of email and password combinations I've downloaded from some hacked website that

00:28:08 ◼   ► idiotically stored their passwords in plain text.

00:28:12 ◼   ► And then all of a sudden, now I'm hooked up to your camera

00:28:15 ◼   ► and I can see everything your camera sees.

00:28:18 ◼   ► And the people who are into this are terrible people

00:28:24 ◼   ► and they're saying weird things.

00:28:26 ◼   ► They look in the camera and they see it's a child

00:28:28 ◼   ► and they're saying terribly racist things to these kids.

00:28:33 ◼   ► It's all horrible.

00:28:36 ◼   ► In a sense, the ring people are right

00:28:39 ◼   ► that they weren't hacked, but in another sense,

00:28:44 ◼   ► it's like if it's something as sensitive

00:28:47 ◼   ► as a camera and microphone pointing into your house,

00:28:52 ◼   ► you probably should have set it up

00:28:55 ◼   ► with something better than email plus password security.

00:28:59 ◼   ► - I mean, Apple learned this the hard way

00:29:01 ◼   ► because that's how the original iCloud breaches happen

00:29:03 ◼   ► with people either reusing passwords

00:29:05 ◼   ► We're having security questions for celebrities that were on Wikipedia, right?

00:29:09 ◼   ► Basically, right.

00:29:10 ◼   ► I mean, that was the Sarah Palin thing too.

00:29:12 ◼   ► No, that's very true.

00:29:13 ◼   ► And no, Scarlett Johansson.

00:29:15 ◼   ► I mean, it wasn't just political.

00:29:17 ◼   ► It was it was a bunch of people who who had their iClouds,

00:29:21 ◼   ► iCloud accounts hacked.

00:29:23 ◼   ► And it was. Yeah, you're exactly right, though.

00:29:25 ◼   ► It was very similar where

00:29:27 ◼   ► it was just email plus password and the,

00:29:33 ◼   ► you know, extra questions for security, which I available

00:29:38 ◼   ► answers, which I, I hate every time. I've never been

00:29:43 ◼   ► comfortable with them. I mean, I'm talking like going back 20

00:29:46 ◼   ► years when they're like, Hey, what's your father's middle

00:29:49 ◼   ► name? And I'm like, Hey, that's not that. You know, I mean,

00:29:54 ◼   ► like, somebody could easily look that up. And I'm like, but I

00:29:58 ◼   ► generally answered them truthfully, because I'm like,

00:30:01 ◼   ► what else am I gonna do?

00:30:03 ◼   ► And I know that like one password

00:30:06 ◼   ► lets you like answer them with, you know,

00:30:09 ◼   ► a complete gibberish answer

00:30:11 ◼   ► so that you can look up in one password,

00:30:14 ◼   ► what does Google think my father's middle name is?

00:30:19 ◼   ► - Yes. - And it's like, you know.

00:30:23 ◼   ► - A pseudo random blob. - Gliberal, bleh.

00:30:26 ◼   ► - As a hilarious aside, in the province of Quebec,

00:30:30 ◼   ► still ask you for your mother's maiden name as a security question but it's illegal by law for

00:30:35 ◼   ► people for a wife to take your husband's name they you have to keep your maiden name so everybody

00:30:40 ◼   ► knows everybody's maiden name because that's the name they go by but they still ask it as a

00:30:45 ◼   ► security question we can't win uh but it just shows that all of those that that that that whole

00:30:54 ◼   ► path of personal security of of asking you things that supposedly only you would know it's it the

00:31:05 ◼   ► whole path is broken and the right path is you know some kind of second factor thing with every

00:31:14 ◼   ► password being total gibberish or yeah if not gibberish you know just like three random three

00:31:22 ◼   ► three or four random words separated by dots or dashes

00:31:27 ◼   ► or something like that. - Something that adds

00:31:28 ◼   ► some entropy to your password.

00:31:29 ◼   ► - Right, but not something that has any kind of meaning

00:31:33 ◼   ► to you personally, but...

00:31:35 ◼   ► - And that's why Apple came out with that whole,

00:31:37 ◼   ► well, the first two step authentication

00:31:39 ◼   ► and then the new two factor authentication.

00:31:41 ◼   ► My only issue with Ring is that it's sort of like,

00:31:44 ◼   ► they just, they keep doing stuff like this.

00:31:46 ◼   ► Like they famously let the Ukrainian outsource company

00:31:49 ◼   ► have direct access to people's camera feeds

00:31:51 ◼   ► out of expediency.

00:31:52 ◼   ► And then they gave, like they had this whole thing going on

00:31:54 ◼   ► with the cops where they would help them install

00:31:56 ◼   ► like the ring doorbells.

00:31:58 ◼   ► And it just feels like they need to reprioritize security

00:32:01 ◼   ► in their list of things that matter to them.

00:32:03 ◼   ► - Well, and right.

00:32:06 ◼   ► So I feel like they,

00:32:10 ◼   ► and I haven't bought the ring camera things

00:32:14 ◼   ► and I really could use them to be honest at our front door.

00:32:22 ◼   ► And, but I've honestly had like a bad privacy feeling

00:32:27 ◼   ► about them the whole time.

00:32:31 ◼   ► And I get it that they're not hacked

00:32:34 ◼   ► because they're easily hackable.

00:32:36 ◼   ► I get it that they got, that people are getting hacked

00:32:40 ◼   ► because it's just a simple email password thing

00:32:45 ◼   ► and so many millions of people's emails

00:32:50 ◼   ► plus password they use everywhere have been leaked,

00:32:54 ◼   ► that's basically how they've been quote unquote hacked.

00:32:57 ◼   ► So I get it that it's not their fault

00:32:59 ◼   ► that if you used a good, strong, unique password with Ring

00:33:04 ◼   ► and that's all you did, the only security step you took

00:33:10 ◼   ► was that your Ring account uses a good, strong,

00:33:15 ◼   ► unique password, you're good.

00:33:18 ◼   ► I get it and that's what I would do

00:33:22 ◼   ► But it's not what everybody in my family would do. It's certainly not what everybody I know would do

00:33:28 ◼   ► You know, most people don't do that. And so it is kind of on ring to

00:33:35 ◼   ► Have designed a system and I say this all the time on during fireball. We're like good design

00:33:41 ◼   ► Isn't really

00:33:44 ◼   ► It shouldn't be centered on what people should do. It should be centered on what people will do. It's considerate, right?

00:33:51 ◼   ► It's what what will people do not what should they do because people aren't going to do the should thing

00:33:59 ◼   ► Most of the time they're gonna do what they will do, you know

00:34:04 ◼   ► It's the old story about like how do you set the pathways on a college campus?

00:34:09 ◼   ► And it's like, just lay down grass everywhere,

00:34:13 ◼   ► wait a year, and then see where the paths are worn,

00:34:18 ◼   ► and then pave those,

00:34:19 ◼   ► because people are gonna walk there anyway.

00:34:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, I also think that,

00:34:24 ◼   ► I think it's fair to say that as much as these are products,

00:34:27 ◼   ► when you're dealing with a company like Amazon,

00:34:28 ◼   ► and like Google, and like Facebook,

00:34:30 ◼   ► they are also intended to be data harvesting endpoints.

00:34:33 ◼   ► So they're designed to take your stuff

00:34:35 ◼   ► and put it on Amazon or Google or Facebook servers.

00:34:38 ◼   ► And that means there has to be an inherent

00:34:40 ◼   ► greater level of security.

00:34:42 ◼   ► Like that Nanatmo, Natatmo,

00:34:43 ◼   ► I forget how to pronounce their name,

00:34:44 ◼   ► that doorbell, it saves to an SD card.

00:34:46 ◼   ► Like there is, or to your personal Dropbox,

00:34:49 ◼   ► there's no like their server end.

00:34:51 ◼   ► So I think if you're designing this stuff

00:34:52 ◼   ► and you're marketing it,

00:34:53 ◼   ► and you're also your side business or your side hustle

00:34:55 ◼   ► or your main hustle is sucking in all this data

00:34:58 ◼   ► so you can feed your algorithms

00:34:59 ◼   ► and your facial recognition and whatever,

00:35:02 ◼   ► there's an even higher standard

00:35:03 ◼   ► for you to provide the protection

00:35:04 ◼   ► to the people who are using those devices.

00:35:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think so completely.

00:35:08 ◼   ► All right, let's take a break.

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00:40:04 ◼   ► All right, so you don't have a Ring camera.

00:40:11 ◼   ► - No, and I've thought about them too,

00:40:13 ◼   ► but I think even if I would ever get one,

00:40:14 ◼   ► it would only ever be plenty out.

00:40:16 ◼   ► I would never have one inside the house.

00:40:18 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, I wouldn't want a camera inside my house

00:40:22 ◼   ► no matter what company it was from.

00:40:24 ◼   ► You know, like, even if like Apple split itself

00:40:29 ◼   ► and said, hey, we're gonna fork our company,

00:40:31 ◼   ► we're gonna keep going with Apple as Apple,

00:40:34 ◼   ► and we're also gonna make a company

00:40:36 ◼   ► called the Privacy Company.

00:40:38 ◼   ► And literally, it's just devoted,

00:40:42 ◼   ► a company single-mindedly focused on privacy.

00:40:47 ◼   ► And I still wouldn't want the camera in my house,

00:40:51 ◼   ► But I would like a better camera outside my house.

00:40:55 ◼   ► I have a crappy doorbell that has a crappy camera

00:41:00 ◼   ► from like 2006 pointing outside at the doorbell.

00:41:04 ◼   ► I would like a better camera there.

00:41:05 ◼   ► So I guess I'll buy something.

00:41:08 ◼   ► And I'm not, you know,

00:41:09 ◼   ► what's the worst thing that could happen?

00:41:10 ◼   ► The worst thing that could happen is what?

00:41:13 ◼   ► 24 hours a day, seven days a week

00:41:18 ◼   ► is storing what happens outside my house

00:41:23 ◼   ► and going to a server, right?

00:41:25 ◼   ► - John taking the garbage out Tuesday again.

00:41:28 ◼   ► - Right.

00:41:29 ◼   ► So every Sunday night when I take the garbage out,

00:41:32 ◼   ► there I am.

00:41:32 ◼   ► - And you're Hulk fans.

00:41:36 ◼   ► - If it's pointed outside your house,

00:41:39 ◼   ► to me, the worst privacy violation that could happen

00:41:44 ◼   ► is a thing that somebody else could photograph, right?

00:41:49 ◼   ► Because it's outside your house.

00:41:52 ◼   ► So that's not why I don't get it, but eh.

00:41:56 ◼   ► - And I say this as someone who realizes

00:41:57 ◼   ► that every Mac and iPad and iPhone and Google phone

00:42:00 ◼   ► and whatever I have in my house has a camera on it.

00:42:03 ◼   ► I just try not to think of that.

00:42:04 ◼   ► - Hey, maybe you wanna put tape over your camera.

00:42:07 ◼   ► And it's like, I've seen no evidence

00:42:11 ◼   ► that the green light that indicates that the camera is in use isn't physically connected

00:42:18 ◼   ► to the camera.

00:42:22 ◼   ► In my humble opinion, I can't prove it, nobody can prove it, and obviously if you put a piece

00:42:28 ◼   ► of tape over the camera, you can prove that the camera isn't filming you.

00:42:35 ◼   ► But in my opinion, I don't worry about the cameras on my devices.

00:42:40 ◼   ► I really do feel like there's, you know,

00:42:44 ◼   ► and you know, all my devices are Apple devices,

00:42:47 ◼   ► but I do feel like there's pretty strong proof

00:42:51 ◼   ► and from what I know personally,

00:42:54 ◼   ► pretty strong evidence that they take it very seriously.

00:42:58 ◼   ► That like, I don't think Tim Cook has tape over his camera.

00:43:02 ◼   ► And I know people are like, hey, you know,

00:43:04 ◼   ► there's that thing as Zuckerberg

00:43:06 ◼   ► and Zuckerberg's using a MacBook

00:43:08 ◼   ► and he's got tape over the camera.

00:43:09 ◼   ► Like if Mark Zuckerberg has tape over his camera,

00:43:12 ◼   ► then I'm putting tape over my camera.

00:43:13 ◼   ► And it's like, well, maybe that was,

00:43:16 ◼   ► A, we have no idea if that was actually his computer,

00:43:20 ◼   ► and B, he didn't make the computer.

00:43:23 ◼   ► You know, like show me.

00:43:24 ◼   ► - No, but he was Facebook running on it,

00:43:25 ◼   ► so you have to be careful.

00:43:26 ◼   ► - Exactly, right.

00:43:27 ◼   ► He's the guy who runs a company

00:43:29 ◼   ► that is trying to use your camera surreptitiously

00:43:32 ◼   ► without turning the light on.

00:43:35 ◼   ► I don't think Tim Cook or Phil Schiller or Eddy Cue

00:43:40 ◼   ► or Craig Federighi, I don't think any of them have tape

00:43:45 ◼   ► over the cameras on their MacBooks

00:43:48 ◼   ► because I think they know that if the camera's on,

00:43:51 ◼   ► the light comes on and that's, you know,

00:43:54 ◼   ► you know that it's on.

00:43:55 ◼   ► So I trust it that way.

00:43:59 ◼   ► And maybe I'm wrong, but I've seen no evidence

00:44:03 ◼   ► that that's not the way that it actually works.

00:44:07 ◼   ► - No, it's tied into the secure element

00:44:08 ◼   ► on all the modern Macs and iPhones and everything anyway.

00:44:10 ◼   ► So it's basically a hardware channel,

00:44:12 ◼   ► which I think is better in some cases.

00:44:15 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:44:16 ◼   ► Did you get a Mac Pro?

00:44:18 ◼   ► - I did not.

00:44:20 ◼   ► I was thinking about it and I had what I called

00:44:22 ◼   ► a bunch of FOMO YOLO jealousy when I saw all of our friends

00:44:26 ◼   ► getting them and unboxing them.

00:44:28 ◼   ► But the 2016 MacBook Pro is just so good.

00:44:32 ◼   ► And I'm only shooting 4K RAW, which, you know,

00:44:35 ◼   ► it sounds like a lot, but this machine is crushing it.

00:44:39 ◼   ► And I don't, like if I was doing multi-stream 8K RAW

00:44:43 ◼   ► or Arri Alexa, like Jonathan Morrison or MKBHD or iJustine,

00:44:48 ◼   ► or some of that photogrammetry stuff that Alex Lindsey does

00:44:51 ◼   ► that takes days, it would be a blessing to me.

00:44:54 ◼   ► But there's, I was like just looking at it

00:44:56 ◼   ► and looking at my budget and going, but I don't need it.

00:44:59 ◼   ► And because I didn't need it,

00:45:00 ◼   ► managed to stop myself from buying it. It's... I even thought about the display

00:45:08 ◼   ► but by the time I thought about it it was pushed into February and that let me

00:45:10 ◼   ► say okay I don't have to think about it right now. Well there's a couple of

00:45:13 ◼   ► things that are pushing late so one of the things that is fascinating to me and

00:45:19 ◼   ► it it's not really related but did you see how long the delay is on AirPods Pro?

00:45:28 ◼   ► No, I didn't. If you tried to buy AirPods Pro in any time in the last like three

00:45:36 ◼   ► four weeks there like the delivery date is late January so in terms of like hey

00:45:43 ◼   ► it's two weeks before Christmas I wanted to get you know my kid my spouse whoever

00:45:50 ◼   ► AirPods Pro you you were screwed it was absolutely almost no chance you know

00:45:56 ◼   ► There were like random. It says four weeks right now

00:45:59 ◼   ► You know you you could randomly find a store that might be near you that had them

00:46:05 ◼   ► But for the most part it was five or six weeks

00:46:08 ◼   ► Four or five weeks delivery which to me is crazy

00:46:12 ◼   ► I

00:46:14 ◼   ► The pro and I realized the air pods pro or something that

00:46:20 ◼   ► Tens and tens of millions of people are interested in and might want to buy and I realized that the pro display

00:46:26 ◼   ► XDR is something that only thousands of people are interested in and want to buy but

00:46:32 ◼   ► Yeah similar in terms of you can't get one right now. You just can't go in and buy one

00:46:40 ◼   ► You know obviously two very different price points yes

00:46:49 ◼   ► We're talking five thousand dollars plus thousand dollars stand versus you know

00:46:54 ◼   ► What what what are the air pods Pro like I loved your line?

00:46:58 ◼   ► I think it was a WWC talk show and you said that you thought 6k was the price when they kept calling it that

00:47:03 ◼   ► It's so close. It's

00:47:05 ◼   ► If you get your stand, it's so close. It's a thousand dollars a K. I

00:47:11 ◼   ► Think it's I think you know

00:47:15 ◼   ► Obviously people who are looking for the pro display XDR are looking to buy a display to use for years to come

00:47:22 ◼   ► it is not a

00:47:24 ◼   ► One-off purchase. It's not something you make on a whim. It is something you do professionally blah blah blah and

00:47:30 ◼   ► AirPods Pro or something that maybe you buy and a year or two from now you'll get new

00:47:38 ◼   ► whatever's you know AirPods Pro 2 or whatever will come out and

00:47:43 ◼   ► and they're $200 versus 6,000 with a stand

00:47:48 ◼   ► or 7,000 with a stand and the matte finish.

00:47:52 ◼   ► - And those wheels, don't forget those wheels.

00:47:53 ◼   ► - And while you can't get the wheels on display,

00:47:56 ◼   ► I don't think the display has wheels.

00:47:58 ◼   ► Although, you know, let's give them time.

00:48:01 ◼   ► And again, I laugh because it's a very high price point.

00:48:07 ◼   ► I don't think that it's an unreasonable price point

00:48:10 ◼   ► for what it is.

00:48:11 ◼   ► I just read a story today from an animation company

00:48:16 ◼   ► where they were like, hey, you know,

00:48:18 ◼   ► everybody's joking about these displays,

00:48:21 ◼   ► but prior to these displays being available,

00:48:24 ◼   ► it would have cost us $30,000 a seat to get

00:48:28 ◼   ► a display of this caliber in front of everybody

00:48:33 ◼   ► on our team, and now we can do it for $6,000.

00:48:38 ◼   ► - I was joking on Twitter, 'cause I got an email

00:48:41 ◼   ► B&H saying that their new Sony reference display was in stock and it was like

00:48:44 ◼   ► $42,000 and I didn't see a stand on yeah

00:48:47 ◼   ► Right, so I mean I laugh because they're just expensive period yeah

00:48:53 ◼   ► But I thought it was really interesting that the AirPods Pro were sold out so far in advance of Christmas, you know, I

00:49:02 ◼   ► Do I still I have to be honest. I'm still using my

00:49:08 ◼   ► review unit. I didn't I didn't buy them.

00:49:11 ◼   ► And I feel terrible because I was going to buy one for me and my wife.

00:49:16 ◼   ► She doesn't listen to my podcast, so hopefully she won't hear this.

00:49:19 ◼   ► But I was going to get them for her for Christmas.

00:49:22 ◼   ► And then, you know, it was like December 14th or something.

00:49:25 ◼   ► And I'm thinking, hey, it's only December 14th.

00:49:28 ◼   ► I've got plenty of time. I'm ahead of the game.

00:49:31 ◼   ► I'm not doing the thing I do every year where I screw up and wait too long

00:49:37 ◼   ► to get and and then I go to get AirPods Pro and they're like uh delivers January 20th and I'm like

00:49:43 ◼   ► ah shit yeah I I have a very similar thing I bought a pair for myself because I was you know

00:49:50 ◼   ► because I tried to replace the the review units and then I couldn't get them for Christmas

00:49:53 ◼   ► ended up giving the ones I bought as a Christmas gift and I have to buy myself a pair as soon as I

00:49:58 ◼   ► I can get them. I love them and I will tell you and this is good

00:50:05 ◼   ► time as any to reveal it. I did I have a pair of bows,

00:50:11 ◼   ► whatevers, you know, qs 30s, whatever the hell they call them

00:50:15 ◼   ► the over the ear things that are also Bluetooth, noise canceling,

00:50:21 ◼   ► blah, blah, blah. But I took a trip on an airplane at the end

00:50:27 ◼   ► of, or early in December. And I took them and my AirPods and I

00:50:35 ◼   ► will say, I will never travel with those Bose things again.

00:50:39 ◼   ► Ever. There's 0.0 chance that I will ever take them on my trip.

00:50:46 ◼   ► It's not the same because the Bose ones are over the ears

00:50:52 ◼   ► before you even turn them on, they do block out more noise than AirPods Pro, literally

00:51:00 ◼   ► with no electricity being used, no noise canceling algorithm or anything.

00:51:08 ◼   ► They do because they're over your ear.

00:51:10 ◼   ► And when the noise canceling is on, it is different.

00:51:15 ◼   ► And if your goal is to put them in your ear and go on an airplane and not listen to anything,

00:51:26 ◼   ► you're not listening to a podcast, you're not listening to music, you literally just

00:51:31 ◼   ► want the noise canceled.

00:51:33 ◼   ► Well, then you should probably still stick with some kind of over the ear thing because

00:51:39 ◼   ► it is a little bit better, but not that much better.

00:51:45 ◼   ► It is different.

00:51:47 ◼   ► You can definitely hear the difference.

00:51:50 ◼   ► But if you're listening to anything, if you're listening, if you're watching movies on your

00:51:55 ◼   ► iPad or Mac or whatever, if you're listening to music, it is negligible how different they

00:52:05 ◼   ► are.

00:52:06 ◼   ► And I'm not even sure which one is quote unquote better.

00:52:10 ◼   ► But the fact that the AirPods are so tiny and it is absolutely astounding to me how

00:52:20 ◼   ► competitive they are in terms of the noise canceling quality.

00:52:26 ◼   ► And you know, I think for a lot of people, you know, being in an airplane mid-flight

00:52:32 ◼   ► is sort of the noise canceling default scenario.

00:52:37 ◼   ► It's absolutely amazing how competitive the AirPods Pro are

00:52:46 ◼   ► with something like the current Bose QS,

00:52:51 ◼   ► whatever number they are.

00:52:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, totally.

00:52:59 ◼   ► I've used a bunch of them too.

00:53:00 ◼   ► And I know there are some people who are audiophiles

00:53:02 ◼   ► and they complain about the sound quality of the AirPods

00:53:04 ◼   ► and fair enough, but I've used them on a ton of flights now

00:53:07 ◼   ► and a ton of different travel scenarios,

00:53:09 ◼   ► coffee shops all over the place.

00:53:11 ◼   ► And I'm astounded at something, not just this small,

00:53:14 ◼   ► but most of the space in here

00:53:16 ◼   ► isn't taken up with audio tech,

00:53:17 ◼   ► it's taken up with a bunch of computer tech

00:53:19 ◼   ► and they can still wrangle out

00:53:20 ◼   ► this kind of performance from them.

00:53:21 ◼   ► - It's really, and they're so much smaller.

00:53:25 ◼   ► And I, you know, what you actually carry on to the plane,

00:53:30 ◼   ► you know, the difference in weight and volume,

00:53:34 ◼   ► especially volume between the AirPods Pro

00:53:39 ◼   ► and a pair of over-the-ear noise canceling headphones

00:53:43 ◼   ► is so phenomenal, it's just ridiculous.

00:53:47 ◼   ► - And I know I should, but I don't get told

00:53:49 ◼   ► to take them off anywhere nearly as I do

00:53:51 ◼   ► when I'm wearing, when I used to wear those big,

00:53:52 ◼   ► the big headphones. - Yeah.

00:53:53 ◼   ► - Those were super obvious.

00:53:55 ◼   ► - 'Cause they look at you and they're like,

00:53:56 ◼   ► "Hey, take that off."

00:53:59 ◼   ► It's really-- - Please, they don't notice

00:54:01 ◼   ► half the time. - All right.

00:54:03 ◼   ► - And it's weird, it's like the end of 2019

00:54:04 ◼   ► and we have, I forget what it was,

00:54:06 ◼   ► a 10 core audio processors in our ears.

00:54:08 ◼   ► That's how far we managed to go within a decade.

00:54:11 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:54:13 ◼   ► - Everything's gonna be a computer, Rene, everything.

00:54:20 ◼   ► - Yep, yeah.

00:54:23 ◼   ► But I have to say I taking them both on one flight and actually

00:54:29 ◼   ► taking time to try them side by side was such and again, this is

00:54:36 ◼   ► the service I provide to the listeners of the talk show is

00:54:39 ◼   ► now you don't have to do it. If you own AirPods Pro, just just

00:54:45 ◼   ► listen to me don't even try the other ones. Leave them at home,

00:54:47 ◼   ► sell them, give them to your brother in law, whoever will

00:54:51 ◼   ► take them, get rid of them. You don't need them anymore. Just use

00:54:54 ◼   ► the AirPods Pro. And and the dera and the other thing that I

00:54:59 ◼   ► brought with me on the same flight was regular old fashioned

00:55:03 ◼   ► non noise cancelling AirPods, although they were the second

00:55:07 ◼   ► generation one. And it it is tremendous the difference that

00:55:14 ◼   ► the noise cancelling AirPods Pro make when when you're on an

00:55:18 ◼   ► airplane. You it's exactly what I thought, which is that the

00:55:23 ◼   ► earbuds are really, they're not useless on an airplane, you

00:55:28 ◼   ► know, but it's there's just so much that white noise from that

00:55:33 ◼   ► would just whoosh noise on an airplane flight. And it's just

00:55:41 ◼   ► the perfect scenario for where you really do need, you know,

00:55:47 ◼   ► And I use that word somewhat cautiously, need,

00:55:51 ◼   ► but you really do need noise canceling on an airplane.

00:55:55 ◼   ► And it just makes all the difference in the world.

00:56:00 ◼   ► Really, just tremendous.

00:56:03 ◼   ► I love the AirPods Pro.

00:56:06 ◼   ► We can segue into this,

00:56:12 ◼   ► 'cause it's part of the reason I wanted to have you

00:56:14 ◼   ► on the show this week was your product

00:56:18 ◼   ► of the decade selection.

00:56:20 ◼   ► AirPods Pro are up there.

00:56:22 ◼   ► I would say they're in the finalists, you know,

00:56:26 ◼   ► they're in the playoffs.

00:56:30 ◼   ► - My only thing was that I feel like their best decade

00:56:33 ◼   ► is yet to come.

00:56:34 ◼   ► Like they've been huge, they started in 2016,

00:56:36 ◼   ► but they made huge leaps this year.

00:56:38 ◼   ► And if you follow the thread,

00:56:40 ◼   ► it just feels like they're gonna be even bigger

00:56:42 ◼   ► in the next few years.

00:56:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, I totally agree.

00:56:44 ◼   ► like way longer battery life, way better noise cancellation and way better sort of Siri integration.

00:56:53 ◼   ► Yeah, I kind of feel like at some point in the next, I would say even like three years,

00:56:59 ◼   ► there will be a pair of AirPods that just make even today's AirPods Pro seem like garbage.

00:57:05 ◼   ► Like they'll stream Apple podcasts and Apple music, maybe some third party stuff directly.

00:57:09 ◼   ► You won't even need to watch anymore.

00:57:13 ◼   ► All right, let's just segue right into that. So you had a piece recently, Renee, where you picked

00:57:20 ◼   ► out again, this is the last episode of this podcast in the decade. And don't give me any of

00:57:28 ◼   ► this nonsense that the decade start in 2021. Everybody knows the way human brains work,

00:57:37 ◼   ► That's a decade start, you know, the prince didn't have a song called let's party like it's

00:57:43 ◼   ► 2000 it was 1999, you know, you know, oh, sorry a kid. You're not really 10 years old

00:57:49 ◼   ► You gotta wait till next year exactly

00:57:51 ◼   ► So we're days away. The show will come out right before the cusp of the new year

00:57:58 ◼   ► but then it's then, you know, it's the toggle of the decade I

00:58:05 ◼   ► Personally don't do and you know this. Yeah, you personally know this people listening to this know it I

00:58:12 ◼   ► Don't do a lot of like hey best blank of the year bless best this of the year

00:58:19 ◼   ► It's just not my style and it's not because I'm opposed to it. It's just not what I'm good at

00:58:26 ◼   ► I don't have enthusiasm for it. So let the people who do do it and I'll just link to

00:58:33 ◼   ► so and so's, hey, here's the best apps of the year, the best,

00:58:37 ◼   ► you know, products of the year are the best blanks of the decade.

00:58:41 ◼   ► But a decade, you know, it's a bigger deal.

00:58:44 ◼   ► I feel like I ought to speak up.

00:58:47 ◼   ► You're you. You made a declaration.

00:58:50 ◼   ► Best product of the decade. And it was.

00:58:53 ◼   ► The the Apple Watch.

00:58:56 ◼   ► Yeah. And tell me, tell me why you picked Apple Watch.

00:59:01 ◼   ► - So I did think of a few things

00:59:04 ◼   ► like because it's been such a big decade for Apple

00:59:06 ◼   ► like for everything from the iPad to the MacBook Air

00:59:09 ◼   ► which was essentially the template

00:59:10 ◼   ► for every Ultrabook we got for the rest of the decade.

00:59:13 ◼   ► There was just so much to AirPods

00:59:14 ◼   ► there were just so many things.

00:59:16 ◼   ► Some people love the iPhone 4, the iPhone 10

00:59:18 ◼   ► but to me the big difference is that the Apple Watch

00:59:22 ◼   ► was a change within the way that a lot of these products

00:59:26 ◼   ► worked and were designed to work because it saves lives.

00:59:31 ◼   ► And a lot of people, as soon as I say that people say,

00:59:33 ◼   ► well, phones save lives and computers save lives

00:59:35 ◼   ► and tablets, and that's all true, they absolutely do.

00:59:38 ◼   ► But the Apple watch was designed systematically

00:59:42 ◼   ► to save lives and features were designed specifically

00:59:45 ◼   ► to save lives.

00:59:45 ◼   ► Like they took the health, the heart rate monitor

00:59:48 ◼   ► which originally was just meant

00:59:50 ◼   ► to give an accurate calorie count.

00:59:52 ◼   ► But as they were doing their research

00:59:53 ◼   ► they started finding patterns,

00:59:55 ◼   ► they started exploring it more

00:59:56 ◼   ► and they realized they could detect AFib for example.

00:59:59 ◼   ► actually did low heart rate monitoring

01:00:01 ◼   ► and high heart rate monitoring.

01:00:03 ◼   ► And then the ECG app and fall detection

01:00:05 ◼   ► and international emergency calling,

01:00:08 ◼   ► which you know, a phone can't really like,

01:00:09 ◼   ► they're supposed to be able to do it,

01:00:10 ◼   ► but just if you have an accident

01:00:12 ◼   ► and your phone is thrown out of your head,

01:00:13 ◼   ► it just, in so many situations,

01:00:15 ◼   ► the Apple Watch deliberately and specifically saves lives.

01:00:19 ◼   ► And to me, that was just such a huge change

01:00:22 ◼   ► in the continued evolution of personal computing.

01:00:24 ◼   ► - I, did you see the,

01:00:28 ◼   ► There was somebody wrote an op-ed piece in the New York Times in the last few days where it was like,

01:00:34 ◼   ► "Ah, the whole Apple tells you you can count on the Apple Watch for hard stuff."

01:00:41 ◼   ► And it's like, "Ah, maybe not so fast."

01:00:44 ◼   ► And it's like, it was such a total, like, the worst, in my opinion, of like,

01:00:52 ◼   ► hey, let's take the opposite approach

01:00:56 ◼   ► to what everybody's saying and take that,

01:01:00 ◼   ► write a whole column about that.

01:01:02 ◼   ► Where like the headline and the subhead

01:01:06 ◼   ► were flat out flat wrong.

01:01:11 ◼   ► And then you read the column and it's like,

01:01:13 ◼   ► ah, all right, yeah, this isn't, it's not so wrong.

01:01:16 ◼   ► So it's not as easy to link to and disagree with.

01:01:21 ◼   ► But my rule of headlines is that the headline

01:01:26 ◼   ► is 50% of what matters.

01:01:27 ◼   ► If the headline misleads,

01:01:30 ◼   ► then it doesn't matter what the article says,

01:01:32 ◼   ► whether it's a news reporting piece or an opinion column,

01:01:36 ◼   ► you've already put people on the wrong path because,

01:01:41 ◼   ► and it's only gotten worse because when you share stuff

01:01:45 ◼   ► on Twitter or I guess Facebook, whatever,

01:01:49 ◼   ► When you paste the link all they see is the headline and the subhead

01:01:54 ◼   ► Tell you like in any algorithm. It's the click-through rate is determined by the picture and the headline right? That's it and

01:02:00 ◼   ► The basic gist of this sort of hey not so fast with the Apple watch is saving lives is like hey

01:02:11 ◼   ► Apple did this story or a study of a

01:02:16 ◼   ► couple thousand people who opted in to do it and only X a small number of people actually

01:02:23 ◼   ► Participated and actually did everything they were supposed to do and of those people only a small percentage

01:02:31 ◼   ► actually had

01:02:33 ◼   ► Atrial fibrillation and it's like

01:02:37 ◼   ► But there was not one person

01:02:44 ◼   ► Who?

01:02:45 ◼   ► Anything bad happened because they did it right not one person

01:02:50 ◼   ► had like hey my life was made worse because I

01:02:55 ◼   ► Put on an Apple watch and tried the heart monitor or anything and signed up for this study

01:03:01 ◼   ► Whereas even if it's a small number of people there's a small number of people who the watch was like hey

01:03:09 ◼   ► Go to your doctor

01:03:12 ◼   ► because I

01:03:13 ◼   ► Something might be wrong with your heart and those people that it was like, oh shit. Yeah, there's something wrong with my heart

01:03:20 ◼   ► I should do it it

01:03:22 ◼   ► it was like the opposite of

01:03:24 ◼   ► I get the idea and it's like writing a column that says hey

01:03:31 ◼   ► You're probably not going to

01:03:36 ◼   ► Have your life bettered in

01:03:40 ◼   ► in terms of your heart health if you buy an Apple watch is not a great column.

01:03:46 ◼   ► Whereas "Hey, Apple says they're going to save your life and they're not" is like a

01:03:52 ◼   ► better column.

01:03:53 ◼   ► I totally get that.

01:03:57 ◼   ► But it's totally off the point, right?

01:03:59 ◼   ► Like the only people who like the watch flagged are people who like should go to the doctor

01:04:08 ◼   ► And I don't know, it annoyed me in a way.

01:04:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I get it totally because over the,

01:04:19 ◼   ► like so the Apple Watch came out and for five years,

01:04:22 ◼   ► it's been a failure and beleaguered

01:04:24 ◼   ► and has gotten very little recognition.

01:04:26 ◼   ► And that's despite people like Neil Seibert

01:04:28 ◼   ► and of course, Didya doing the math and showing

01:04:30 ◼   ► people were saying like Alexa was a smash hit

01:04:32 ◼   ► and the Apple Watch was outselling it.

01:04:34 ◼   ► And the Apple Watch now and the AirPods

01:04:36 ◼   ► have both outsold iPod at its peak.

01:04:39 ◼   ► And they're still like not considered breakthrough

01:04:41 ◼   ► or hit products by a huge swath of people.

01:04:45 ◼   ► And it's flabbergasting to me.

01:04:46 ◼   ► I think, I don't know if it's just jealousy

01:04:48 ◼   ► or some sort of weird technology disorder

01:04:51 ◼   ► that infects a lot of people in the industry.

01:04:54 ◼   ► But by any token, they're selling amazingly well.

01:04:57 ◼   ► And it's bringing all these health and fitness features

01:04:59 ◼   ► to people who at the worst will have a better life.

01:05:02 ◼   ► And at best will, like my friend, Georgia, who you know,

01:05:04 ◼   ► she fell down the stairs

01:05:06 ◼   ► and it went off and she was badly hurt.

01:05:09 ◼   ► And luckily her husband hurt her and came running down,

01:05:12 ◼   ► but if she'd been home alone,

01:05:13 ◼   ► that would have called 911 for her when she could not.

01:05:16 ◼   ► - You know what, that's a great example

01:05:19 ◼   ► because I feel like the atrial fibrillation feature,

01:05:24 ◼   ► which Apple has to get country by country

01:05:28 ◼   ► regulatory approval for, for good reason.

01:05:34 ◼   ► this isn't a complaint about government regulations,

01:05:38 ◼   ► but for good reason, they have to get approval for it.

01:05:43 ◼   ► And so it definitely is limited by where you live.

01:05:48 ◼   ► So if you live in the US or Canada, you've already got it.

01:05:52 ◼   ► You do have it in Canada.

01:05:56 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:05:57 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:05:58 ◼   ► Finally.

01:05:58 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:05:59 ◼   ► - But as you go around--

01:06:01 ◼   ► - We got it in July of last year.

01:06:02 ◼   ► - Thank God.

01:06:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, but as you go around the world,

01:06:06 ◼   ► you may not have it if you live outside of North America.

01:06:10 ◼   ► But for good reason.

01:06:15 ◼   ► But the fall detection thing, to me,

01:06:19 ◼   ► is way more interesting

01:06:21 ◼   ► than the atrial fibrillation thing

01:06:25 ◼   ► because it just seems more common

01:06:29 ◼   ► And it doesn't require the regulatory approval that it does.

01:06:34 ◼   ► And it works, it really does.

01:06:38 ◼   ► I know your friend, Georgia, had a fall.

01:06:43 ◼   ► I've gotten emails, I'm sure you have too.

01:06:46 ◼   ► I've gotten emails from people who read Daring Fireball,

01:06:50 ◼   ► 'cause there's hundreds of thousands of people

01:06:52 ◼   ► who read my website, and so even if only

01:06:56 ◼   ► tenth of a percent of people suffer a bad fall and only among

01:07:02 ◼   ► the people who actually own an Apple Watch and whatever

01:07:06 ◼   ► percentage those people would deem fit to email me about it.

01:07:11 ◼   ► But I've gotten several emails from people who are like, Hey,

01:07:15 ◼   ► I slipped on the third stair.

01:07:18 ◼   ► I fell down three stairs.

01:07:20 ◼   ► I'm fine.

01:07:21 ◼   ► I was fine.

01:07:23 ◼   ► But maybe if I was instead of being 45 years old,

01:07:28 ◼   ► if I was 85 years old, I wouldn't have been fine.

01:07:31 ◼   ► And the watch was like, hey, are you okay?

01:07:34 ◼   ► We detected a fall.

01:07:36 ◼   ► Do you want to call services?

01:07:39 ◼   ► And they're like, this is phenomenal.

01:07:43 ◼   ► And they're like, as soon as I got that, I was like,

01:07:45 ◼   ► you know what I did?

01:07:46 ◼   ► I bought my dad and my mom an Apple watch, you know,

01:07:51 ◼   ► because you know, my dad is 84, you know,

01:07:55 ◼   ► and if he took a fall like that, he probably wouldn't be okay.

01:07:59 ◼   ► And it would be phenomenal if he could just tap one button on his

01:08:05 ◼   ► left wrist to call nine 11 services.

01:08:08 ◼   ► It really is very impressive technology.

01:08:12 ◼   ► And I get it. I it's not my pick for product of the decade,

01:08:17 ◼   ► but I get why you picked it.

01:08:20 ◼   ► And the services that provide these sorts of things

01:08:23 ◼   ► are typically really expensive every month,

01:08:25 ◼   ► you know, when you add them up.

01:08:27 ◼   ► But also like this is one of those things

01:08:29 ◼   ► where it's only Apple.

01:08:30 ◼   ► Like yes, there are other watches on the market,

01:08:32 ◼   ► but Qualcomm so far has not been able to make

01:08:34 ◼   ► good watch silicon because no one's really buying it

01:08:37 ◼   ► in sufficient quantities.

01:08:38 ◼   ► So they have like an old phone chip,

01:08:40 ◼   ► they've rehashed twice and now added a coprocessor to,

01:08:43 ◼   ► and Wear OS from Google,

01:08:45 ◼   ► even people who love Android will tell you

01:08:47 ◼   ► it's non-functional in terms of being a wearable OS.

01:08:49 ◼   ► And that shows you just how hard it is to make these things.

01:08:52 ◼   ► If Google, one of the best software companies in the world,

01:08:55 ◼   ► and Qualcomm, one of the best chipset companies in the world

01:08:57 ◼   ► can't even get it together,

01:08:58 ◼   ► and that's with the Apple Watch to compete with.

01:09:01 ◼   ► So if Apple wasn't in this market,

01:09:03 ◼   ► I don't think we'd be very far at all

01:09:04 ◼   ► when it comes to wearables.

01:09:05 ◼   ► - Well, and I think,

01:09:08 ◼   ► I think that, and again, I say this

01:09:13 ◼   ► as somebody who years ago wished that,

01:09:17 ◼   ► You know, I said Apple needs its Nikon.

01:09:20 ◼   ► And that was comparing Apple to Canon and the way that in the the camera, you know.

01:09:27 ◼   ► Yeah. It shows how many years ago that I was only talking about Canon Nikon,

01:09:32 ◼   ► because I think they've been passed in so many ways by other companies,

01:09:37 ◼   ► especially Sony, who has really, really stepped up their camera game.

01:09:41 ◼   ► But the basic idea stands, which is that if you want

01:09:47 ◼   ► a serious professional camera, you have several,

01:09:52 ◼   ► at least a handful of companies to choose from.

01:09:56 ◼   ► And it's probably not reasonable

01:10:00 ◼   ► to expect dozens of companies.

01:10:03 ◼   ► Markets tend to consolidate,

01:10:07 ◼   ► competition tends to force people out,

01:10:10 ◼   ► but it's not good when you don't have competition.

01:10:15 ◼   ► It's not good for you.

01:10:17 ◼   ► It's definitely not good for your customers,

01:10:20 ◼   ► but the thing that to me is counterintuitive

01:10:24 ◼   ► is that it's not good for the company itself

01:10:27 ◼   ► because that's how you end up getting locked

01:10:31 ◼   ► into a weird corner and the whole market goes another way

01:10:36 ◼   ► and you're not ready to go there.

01:10:38 ◼   ► And cameras are to me the perfect example

01:10:44 ◼   ► where there's always been, at least in my lifetime,

01:10:49 ◼   ► a couple of brands that you could choose from

01:10:52 ◼   ► that offer truly excellent professional cameras.

01:10:57 ◼   ► And the problem,

01:11:00 ◼   ► and I think it's a serious, serious problem

01:11:04 ◼   ► for those of us in the Apple ecosystem,

01:11:06 ◼   ► is you get locked into the Apple ecosystem

01:11:09 ◼   ► and you get ruled out

01:11:14 ◼   ► of these other devices, you know,

01:11:19 ◼   ► and you hope that Apple is keeping up,

01:11:23 ◼   ► but you know, again, it's a whole tangent, we won't take--

01:11:27 ◼   ► - Televisions are the same thing.

01:11:28 ◼   ► There's just so many competing brands.

01:11:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, but on the watch front, it's the opposite,

01:11:34 ◼   ► where Apple is so racing ahead on what you can do

01:11:39 ◼   ► with a modern digital watch, a computer on your wrist.

01:11:44 ◼   ► And they're so far ahead of every other company that it's embarrassing to the other companies,

01:11:54 ◼   ► to be honest.

01:11:55 ◼   ► And, you know, it's part of the reason.

01:11:57 ◼   ► I'm not going to say you're wrong for picking Apple Watch as the product of the decade.

01:12:02 ◼   ► And I would honestly say that above and beyond any particular reason to buy an Apple Watch

01:12:08 ◼   ► today. To me, the the best argument for your decision to

01:12:14 ◼   ► say that's the product of the decade is how far ahead it is

01:12:18 ◼   ► than anything that competes with it. It's it's absolutely

01:12:22 ◼   ► ridiculous. It it is Steve Jobs is hey. We're 5 years ahead of

01:12:27 ◼   ► the competition. Honestly, I would say it's more than 5

01:12:31 ◼   ► years ahead of the competition. It's it's absolutely ridiculous

01:12:35 ◼   ► how far ahead Apple watches compared to the next best Apple Watch.

01:12:41 ◼   ► Yeah. Which isn't that great and only works and runs Tizen.

01:12:46 ◼   ► And and is big and chunky and doesn't look good.

01:12:51 ◼   ► And and again, there are so many ways, you know,

01:12:55 ◼   ► we could do a whole podcast on just the ways that we want Apple Watch to get better.

01:13:02 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, absolutely. Starting with the fact that we really I mean,

01:13:05 ◼   ► everybody wants it to be an independent device, right?

01:13:09 ◼   ► Like you don't want it to have to be tied to an iPhone.

01:13:13 ◼   ► My nephew, who's like, I think he's 10.

01:13:17 ◼   ► I don't know. But, you know, he's around 10.

01:13:20 ◼   ► He's either nine, 10 or 11.

01:13:22 ◼   ► Got an Apple Watch for Christmas, but he doesn't have an iPhone.

01:13:27 ◼   ► Yeah. And so it's weird.

01:13:31 ◼   ► Right like so his iPhone is tied to his dad's phone. Yeah, and

01:13:36 ◼   ► Why should that be it should be it it's a perfectly reasonable thing

01:13:43 ◼   ► for people to say you know what I want my

01:13:46 ◼   ► 11 year old son to have an Apple watch, but I don't want him to have an iPhone and cellular service and all this stuff

01:13:54 ◼   ► the fact that you can't do that cleanly is

01:13:58 ◼   ► Weird and I think that's what they're working towards because if you look at what they've been doing like adding LTE adding an independent app store

01:14:05 ◼   ► It seems like they're putting all the bricks in place so that they can tie that they can cut that tether

01:14:09 ◼   ► Yeah, I totally think so. Although I kind of thought once they added LTE. I thought that by the end of

01:14:16 ◼   ► 2019 we'd be there

01:14:19 ◼   ► It's not real LTE still it's still piggybacking on exactly LTE and I think they have to take that next step, right?

01:14:26 ◼   ► totally and

01:14:28 ◼   ► You know and in theory it shouldn't require that either even just the Wi-Fi

01:14:34 ◼   ► You should be able to put it put the phone on Wi-Fi and when you're home

01:14:39 ◼   ► Have it yeah, but you know could be better

01:14:43 ◼   ► Well, it's like the iPhone was tethered to iTunes until iOS 5 and then we got iCloud

01:14:47 ◼   ► And that was that was the five versions in so we've just passed five versions in for the watch

01:14:53 ◼   ► But it's a way more constrained device

01:14:55 ◼   ► So I'm willing to cut them like a couple of years slack on their timeline

01:14:58 ◼   ► Well, I'll come a little slack but I should absolutely be that that would be fat like it's that there's like a couple more features

01:15:06 ◼   ► But that's the biggest one because like people will say Apple watch and support Android. No, that's that's short-term thinking

01:15:12 ◼   ► That's way too much work for way too little benefit

01:15:14 ◼   ► Yeah, we just make it independent and anybody with any phone or no phone can write it. Yeah, exactly

01:15:19 ◼   ► No, that's it. It's that iCloud moment where the truth is in the cloud

01:15:25 ◼   ► and devices are just devices and you should be able to you know opt in have

01:15:33 ◼   ► it prompt you and tell you hey we're gonna store all of this data from your

01:15:38 ◼   ► watch in your iCloud account in the cloud do you agree or do you not agree

01:15:44 ◼   ► but if you agree there it goes and then you're good you know and well like a

01:15:52 ◼   ► mutual friend Dieter Bohn was saying he went back to an Android phone but he

01:15:55 ◼   ► uses his Apple watch to stay in contact with iMessage and if but you imagine he

01:16:00 ◼   ► still has to have an iPhone somewhere right it's piggybacking on that and be

01:16:03 ◼   ► great if that wasn't the case yeah all right let me take another break here and

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01:19:52 ◼   ► All right, product of the decade.

01:19:58 ◼   ► You picked Apple Watch.

01:20:00 ◼   ► All right, here's my pick.

01:20:01 ◼   ► My pick, and I've been thinking about this a lot,

01:20:03 ◼   ► and it was specifically prompted by your piece.

01:20:07 ◼   ► I think Apple Watch is a good pick.

01:20:09 ◼   ► My pick is iPhone X.

01:20:12 ◼   ► And I think that the iPhone X

01:20:19 ◼   ► has been so,

01:20:25 ◼   ► in a large part overlooked in terms of how profoundly

01:20:30 ◼   ► it changed how much work they had to do on the hardware side

01:20:35 ◼   ► and the software side to get it to where it was

01:20:44 ◼   ► when it shipped.

01:20:45 ◼   ► And the hardware side takes so much longer

01:20:51 ◼   ► than people think.

01:20:54 ◼   ► I honestly think and I feel like I've been writing about this for years and years and

01:20:59 ◼   ► years that it takes, you know, I don't know, close to two years for them for Apple to ship,

01:21:06 ◼   ► you know, to lock in hardware in the large part and at least a year in the smallest part,

01:21:17 ◼   ► like if they want to make the smallest of small changes, it still takes a year before

01:21:22 ◼   ► they get to the point where they because they make so many of these things. I talking to

01:21:28 ◼   ► people at Apple and and having friends who work there. Honestly, I think I've been underselling

01:21:34 ◼   ► how long it takes to make hardware. I think it is it. The lead way is so long. It is ridiculous

01:21:43 ◼   ► to make Apple quality hardware. Absolutely. And the fact that they don't make

01:21:49 ◼   ► I don't know what you would call it, you know

01:21:55 ◼   ► Asterisk hardware, you know footnote hardware, you know, like the the Samsung Galaxy fold

01:22:04 ◼   ► That's just to name one example. Let's even if it hadn't had the problems that it had

01:22:11 ◼   ► In terms of the initial versions, you know, actually literally breaking while people using them

01:22:18 ◼   ► So even if everything had gone as they had hoped,

01:22:23 ◼   ► it was asterisk hardware where it was a footnote,

01:22:27 ◼   ► where it was like, ah, you know,

01:22:28 ◼   ► a couple thousand people are gonna buy these things.

01:22:31 ◼   ► This was not--

01:22:32 ◼   ► - Well, a better story, it's like the Galaxy S10

01:22:34 ◼   ► that shipped, I think it was,

01:22:35 ◼   ► I can't remember if it was the S10 or the Note 10,

01:22:37 ◼   ► but originally they designed it without buttons.

01:22:40 ◼   ► It was gonna be like one of those capacitive

01:22:42 ◼   ► or squeeze things, and one of the executives finally saw it

01:22:45 ◼   ► and said no, and like just, when you start thinking

01:22:47 ◼   ► that they had done that before it was signed off on

01:22:50 ◼   ► is just not the way Apple works.

01:22:52 ◼   ► But then they had to put all the buttons on one side

01:22:54 ◼   ► and they couldn't do the buttons.

01:22:55 ◼   ► And that is not how you ever want

01:22:58 ◼   ► a hardware production pipeline to work.

01:23:01 ◼   ► But we take it for granted that Apple fixes those things

01:23:04 ◼   ► before we ever see them.

01:23:05 ◼   ► - So bad.

01:23:15 ◼   ► You would like everything to be thoughtfully designed

01:23:25 ◼   ► and thought through.

01:23:26 ◼   ► And most companies don't do that, unfortunately.

01:23:32 ◼   ► It goes back to being considerate.

01:23:33 ◼   ► You want to be considerate.

01:23:34 ◼   ► Right.

01:23:35 ◼   ► And basically, the one thing I hear--

01:23:41 ◼   ► and I know you have friends at Apple,

01:23:43 ◼   ► And I know you have sources at Apple.

01:23:45 ◼   ► I have friends and sources and friends who are sources.

01:23:48 ◼   ► But the one thing that comes back over and over again

01:23:51 ◼   ► is that they really do,

01:23:55 ◼   ► the people at Apple really do try to make the devices

01:24:00 ◼   ► and computers that they themselves would want to buy

01:24:04 ◼   ► and that they're happy to buy

01:24:06 ◼   ► and recommend to their friends.

01:24:07 ◼   ► And it's not about, hey, let's make sure 2019

01:24:12 ◼   ► we hit our revenue number and let's ship whatever we have to

01:24:17 ◼   ► ship at whatever price point to hit this thing. It's, it's, it's

01:24:22 ◼   ► a constant iteration of, let's try to make the thing that we

01:24:27 ◼   ► want to buy ourselves. And, you know, when they fall short, when

01:24:33 ◼   ► when the keyboards suck on Mac books, you know, the best

01:24:38 ◼   ► sources I've had on that over the last couple of years are

01:24:42 ◼   ► people inside Apple, you know, who are like, yeah, the keyboard sucks.

01:24:46 ◼   ► It's terrible. And, uh, you know,

01:24:49 ◼   ► but we're, we're working on it. We, we realize it, you know,

01:24:54 ◼   ► that was to me,

01:24:55 ◼   ► the thing that was like the light at the end of the tunnel of the bad keyboard

01:25:00 ◼   ► saga on Mac books, which again,

01:25:03 ◼   ► we're not out of yet because they've only shipped the first, you know,

01:25:06 ◼   ► the only thing they've shipped with the new keyboard is the 16 inch MacBook pro

01:25:11 ◼   ► Although I do think that the

01:25:14 ◼   ► The rest of the keyboards they are shipping I think have fixed the hey keys get stuck

01:25:22 ◼   ► They're just not great keyboards, right? They can the edge off of it, right? That's the same thing

01:25:27 ◼   ► It's like they could have they can't revert because they have a whole roadmap going ahead that requires certain things

01:25:32 ◼   ► From a keyboard so they have to literally make a new keyboard

01:25:35 ◼   ► Which is a two-year endeavor the way that they make keyboards, right? Exactly, which you know

01:25:40 ◼   ► it's it's the downside to relying on a company that makes everything from the

01:25:47 ◼   ► Operating system to the hardware is that if they screw up

01:25:53 ◼   ► You're buying screwed up

01:25:55 ◼   ► Products, you know, there's there's no way around that

01:25:59 ◼   ► Yeah, they can they can fix an antenna, you know about half a year but they can fix that keyboard fast, right

01:26:07 ◼   ► So my pick for the private advocate is the iPhone 10 and and the reason why is

01:26:14 ◼   ► that I

01:26:16 ◼   ► Really do think that they pulled off

01:26:19 ◼   ► Like in a way and I love it. I love like close-up magic. I love like

01:26:26 ◼   ► The Penn and Teller show I I just love it

01:26:30 ◼   ► But I almost feel like they pulled off a magic trick where they had they said like hey

01:26:37 ◼   ► We're ten years into this thing where we've created this thing. That is the most successful

01:26:43 ◼   ► Consumer product in the history of consumer products literally

01:26:48 ◼   ► I mean you can really make the case that the original iPhone

01:26:52 ◼   ► going through the iPhone 8 is

01:26:56 ◼   ► the single most

01:27:00 ◼   ► Successful product in history. I mean and I'm talking about

01:27:04 ◼   ► toothpastes

01:27:06 ◼   ► tied detergent washing machines

01:27:09 ◼   ► Corvettes and and cars and

01:27:13 ◼   ► Boeing airplanes, you know, you can go all the way from a tube of toothpaste

01:27:19 ◼   ► to a

01:27:22 ◼   ► 50 million dollar Boeing

01:27:24 ◼   ► 747 the single most

01:27:27 ◼   ► successful

01:27:29 ◼   ► product in

01:27:31 ◼   ► History is the iPhone it really is they've they've made more money than anybody and you know

01:27:37 ◼   ► I mean the people have oligopoly control over fossil fuel resources

01:27:39 ◼   ► Yeah, it's astounding. It's absolutely astounding

01:27:44 ◼   ► But that the fundamental notion of the iPhone is it is this thing?

01:27:51 ◼   ► with a screen and

01:27:53 ◼   ► one button underneath and the button is you you click the button and that takes you out of whatever you're doing

01:28:01 ◼   ► To the home screen and then you click another thing on the home screen and then that's what you're doing

01:28:08 ◼   ► to a device with no button and

01:28:11 ◼   ► I really do think that it is

01:28:15 ◼   ► under remarked upon

01:28:18 ◼   ► how successfully

01:28:20 ◼   ► They changed the fundamental

01:28:23 ◼   ► fundamental

01:28:25 ◼   ► Root level of how the system works on these devices of

01:28:30 ◼   ► The most popular product on the planet

01:28:36 ◼   ► With the iPhone 10 and I really and and I really do think that the

01:28:44 ◼   ► the iPhone 10's fundamental notion of how these devices work is

01:28:52 ◼   ► Easily suited for another 10-year run, you know and until they need to do it again

01:28:58 ◼   ► Maybe longer, you know and no other computing platform in history has ever made that transition

01:29:05 ◼   ► mid-flight

01:29:07 ◼   ► without any sort of

01:29:09 ◼   ► Decline and popularity or something like that. I

01:29:12 ◼   ► So that's my pick. I really do think that the iPhone 10 and

01:29:17 ◼   ► consider myself guilty as

01:29:21 ◼   ► having not written enough about how

01:29:24 ◼   ► brilliant this transition

01:29:27 ◼   ► has been

01:29:31 ◼   ► between

01:29:32 ◼   ► the old way of having a

01:29:35 ◼   ► Home button a physical home button to the new way of having no button and doing everything with gestures on the screen

01:29:43 ◼   ► it

01:29:45 ◼   ► It is so

01:29:47 ◼   ► easily overlooked and it's the success of the idea

01:29:52 ◼   ► and the implementation that it was so easy to overlook.

01:29:56 ◼   ► - It's so interesting to me too,

01:29:58 ◼   ► because it's one of those things where you look back

01:30:01 ◼   ► and Apple replaced the iPod mini,

01:30:03 ◼   ► most successful iPod at the time with the iPod nano,

01:30:06 ◼   ► which people thought was absurd.

01:30:08 ◼   ► And here you have the iPhone,

01:30:09 ◼   ► which is the iconic phone for so many people

01:30:11 ◼   ► with that home button.

01:30:13 ◼   ► And they replaced it with another phone,

01:30:16 ◼   ► but they did it in a very opinionated way

01:30:18 ◼   ► and they tested other things.

01:30:20 ◼   ► Like they had a virtual home button

01:30:21 ◼   ► on some of the early prototypes that was a different UI,

01:30:24 ◼   ► but they were like, no, we're getting rid of it.

01:30:26 ◼   ► We're going all into this.

01:30:27 ◼   ► And just by comparison, you look at like Android 10

01:30:30 ◼   ► and a bunch of the Android devices

01:30:31 ◼   ► and people are still complaining and arguing

01:30:33 ◼   ► about how the gestures should work

01:30:35 ◼   ► and being upset by the different implementations.

01:30:38 ◼   ► Apple managed to do that in one cut of the knife.

01:30:40 ◼   ► And I think that's part of what makes Apple, Apple.

01:30:43 ◼   ► It's that they do all the testing internally.

01:30:45 ◼   ► they come to a very opinionated choice,

01:30:47 ◼   ► then they stick by it and they put it in the complete package

01:30:50 ◼   ► that feels like it's one thing and works.

01:30:53 ◼   ► - Right, I've always said, you know,

01:30:55 ◼   ► and you know, it's always good grist for a talk or a column

01:31:00 ◼   ► or an entire podcast.

01:31:03 ◼   ► What is design?

01:31:04 ◼   ► What does design mean?

01:31:06 ◼   ► But fundamentally to me, design is making decisions.

01:31:11 ◼   ► And the more you design something,

01:31:16 ◼   ► the more of those decisions you make as the designer,

01:31:22 ◼   ► as opposed to leaving to the user.

01:31:25 ◼   ► And they made very, very strong decisions

01:31:30 ◼   ► with the iPhone 10, whereas there is no option,

01:31:34 ◼   ► there's no way to configure the phone

01:31:37 ◼   ► to put a virtual home button down there.

01:31:41 ◼   ► You know what, I don't want this to be different.

01:31:43 ◼   ► I just wanna have a thing down there that I tap.

01:31:46 ◼   ► There's certainly room, they could have done it,

01:31:48 ◼   ► and they didn't.

01:31:49 ◼   ► And I think the fact that so few people

01:31:53 ◼   ► have complained about it is absolutely extraordinary.

01:31:57 ◼   ► - Also don't let people opt out,

01:31:59 ◼   ► which I think you can still do on Android.

01:32:00 ◼   ► Like, the boot ninja can't say no,

01:32:02 ◼   ► you can't swipe left or right on this app.

01:32:05 ◼   ► The apps had to adapt to the new paradigm.

01:32:07 ◼   ► - Right, and so...

01:32:10 ◼   ► I don't want to get into an argument about who's ripping off whom blah blah blah and

01:32:18 ◼   ► I know that there have been the new fundamental notion in the iPhone 10 era is that instead

01:32:24 ◼   ► of a home button you swipe up from the bottom and that is how you go back to the home screen

01:32:33 ◼   ► or if you swipe up a little it's how you get to the app switcher and I get it I know that

01:32:40 ◼   ► that there have been other touchscreen devices

01:32:44 ◼   ► that have a swipe up from the bottom to blank metaphor

01:32:48 ◼   ► or conceptual design.

01:32:53 ◼   ► Going back to the Palm Pre, which was--

01:32:56 ◼   ► - It's actually just as a fun aside,

01:32:58 ◼   ► there was a bunch of designers at Apple

01:33:00 ◼   ► that did a lot of that stuff.

01:33:01 ◼   ► Like the original version of Safari on the original iPhone

01:33:04 ◼   ► had the card metaphor.

01:33:05 ◼   ► It was abandoned later, but it had it.

01:33:07 ◼   ► And then when, what's his name?

01:33:10 ◼   ► John Rubenstein left, a bunch of designers went with him

01:33:14 ◼   ► and they made WebOS and then when that failed,

01:33:16 ◼   ► half of them went to Google with Mateus Duarte

01:33:18 ◼   ► and half of them went back to Apple

01:33:20 ◼   ► and they're still making those interfaces.

01:33:22 ◼   ► - Right, so I get it.

01:33:24 ◼   ► It's not about being first, it is about doing it right.

01:33:29 ◼   ► And it's a debate that goes all the way back

01:33:34 ◼   ► to the original Macintosh where the people

01:33:40 ◼   ► who want to take credit away from Apple

01:33:43 ◼   ► and Steve Jobs' Macintosh team from the early '80s

01:33:48 ◼   ► and they wanna say, they just ripped off Xerox

01:33:52 ◼   ► and all the stuff that Xerox was doing.

01:33:55 ◼   ► And that, you can find quotes from Steve Jobs

01:34:00 ◼   ► who was like, once I saw the Xerox stuff,

01:34:02 ◼   ► I knew that every computer was gonna work this way,

01:34:05 ◼   ► blah, blah, blah.

01:34:06 ◼   ► And you're like, well then, he was just a ripoff artist.

01:34:10 ◼   ► But it's more complicated than that to me,

01:34:14 ◼   ► where it's like you have to look at it

01:34:16 ◼   ► and figure out the right way to do it.

01:34:21 ◼   ► And there's a reason why this,

01:34:24 ◼   ► it wasn't just like institutional obstinance

01:34:28 ◼   ► on Xerox's part.

01:34:30 ◼   ► What they were making, these $20,000 systems,

01:34:34 ◼   ► to get started,

01:34:38 ◼   ► It was so expensive that of course it wasn't going to really take root at a consumer level.

01:34:45 ◼   ► And when you really look at it, it's like, okay, there's overlapping windows and there's

01:34:51 ◼   ► a mouse that you can drag and it moves a pointer on the screen and you can click on buttons.

01:34:58 ◼   ► But when you get past that and you actually look at how the Xerox systems worked pre-Macintosh,

01:35:05 ◼   ► It's like, well, it was kind of shitty, right?

01:35:09 ◼   ► It wasn't great.

01:35:12 ◼   ► And then you use the original, you know,

01:35:15 ◼   ► system one from 1984 with the Macintosh.

01:35:19 ◼   ► And you're like, this is, you know, it's limited.

01:35:21 ◼   ► It's missing so much.

01:35:24 ◼   ► It is missing a lot, but what is here,

01:35:27 ◼   ► everything that is here is actually great.

01:35:30 ◼   ► It works exactly the way you would expect it to.

01:35:34 ◼   ► It is really, really well thought out.

01:35:37 ◼   ► That's the difference.

01:35:40 ◼   ► And to me, the thing that the iPhone 10 pulled off,

01:35:45 ◼   ► looking at this, is this transition from a,

01:35:51 ◼   ► what's the fundamental notion of the system?

01:35:56 ◼   ► And to me, the fundamental notion of the 2007 iPhone

01:36:01 ◼   ► is we have a rectangular screen

01:36:04 ◼   ► And it's in one of two states.

01:36:07 ◼   ► It's either on the home screen where you have a list of apps,

01:36:12 ◼   ► and then you tap an app.

01:36:14 ◼   ► And when you do tap an app, then the second state

01:36:17 ◼   ► is the app has the screen.

01:36:20 ◼   ► And then how do you get out of the app?

01:36:24 ◼   ► The app doesn't have anything to do with it.

01:36:28 ◼   ► It's this button underneath the screen, and you tap it,

01:36:33 ◼   ► and then you go back to the home screen.

01:36:34 ◼   ► The app closes and then you're back at the home screen.

01:36:38 ◼   ► And they obviously parlayed that single button

01:36:43 ◼   ► into extra functions over the years.

01:36:46 ◼   ► They made it so that a double tap

01:36:48 ◼   ► would put you in multitasking mode

01:36:50 ◼   ► once they allowed apps to maintain their state

01:36:54 ◼   ► in the background and famously turned it

01:37:00 ◼   ► into a fingerprint sensor with the iPhone 5S, I believe.

01:37:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, absolutely.

01:37:06 ◼   ► - So they extended that basic system for a while,

01:37:13 ◼   ► but the iPhone 10 was like just a total rethink of,

01:37:18 ◼   ► hey, what should the phone be today?

01:37:22 ◼   ► And the answer of there should be no button,

01:37:26 ◼   ► it should just be entirely a screen on the front face,

01:37:30 ◼   ► informed everything else about it,

01:37:32 ◼   ► including the hardware,

01:37:35 ◼   ► which involved the notch and the face ID sensor.

01:37:39 ◼   ► And face ID has worked fabulously, you know?

01:37:43 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:37:44 ◼   ► - Since it came out, you know,

01:37:45 ◼   ► fingerprint sensor was controversial at first,

01:37:50 ◼   ► the face sensor was controversial.

01:37:52 ◼   ► Everybody is a little skeptical of these biometric authentication things at first.

01:37:57 ◼   ► Until any other vendor does it.

01:37:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:37:59 ◼   ► Until they do it.

01:38:00 ◼   ► And the notch itself was controversial aesthetically, et cetera, et cetera.

01:38:07 ◼   ► But the fact that they set that hardware in stone two years in advance and then

01:38:15 ◼   ► caught up to it with software by the time it shipped and had it be such a cohesive

01:38:20 ◼   ► system that for people who switch from an old iPhone to the new one, if I honestly don't

01:38:31 ◼   ► know anybody technical or non-technical who truly regrets upgrading to a 10 class phone.

01:38:40 ◼   ► To me, that's the product of the decade.

01:38:43 ◼   ► And it's amazing when you think about how many things had to come together for that

01:38:47 ◼   ► because in order for Face ID to work,

01:38:49 ◼   ► they had to have the neural network

01:38:51 ◼   ► in the silicon like built in.

01:38:52 ◼   ► Back then people were saying Apple had no idea

01:38:54 ◼   ► about artificial intelligence were being mapped by Google.

01:38:57 ◼   ► They're so far behind in every,

01:38:58 ◼   ► and two years prior to people saying that,

01:39:00 ◼   ► they were baking AI into a neural engine block

01:39:03 ◼   ► on the processor.

01:39:05 ◼   ► And they even like, not like Samsung,

01:39:06 ◼   ► where they made a folding screen,

01:39:07 ◼   ► they folded the display backwards against itself

01:39:10 ◼   ► in the device, they wouldn't have to have a chin.

01:39:13 ◼   ► And we're still seeing new phones come out with a chin

01:39:15 ◼   ► because they either can't afford or can't figure out

01:39:17 ◼   ► how to do that reversal for the display.

01:39:20 ◼   ► So it is an amazing,

01:39:23 ◼   ► just like the original iPhone was an amazing achievement

01:39:25 ◼   ► in terms of multi-touch and, you know,

01:39:27 ◼   ► all these technologies coming together.

01:39:29 ◼   ► This is, I agree with it, it's totally a valid choice too,

01:39:32 ◼   ► because so many things had to come together.

01:39:35 ◼   ► It was like shooting arrows into arrows

01:39:36 ◼   ► that then hit a target for that phone to ship.

01:39:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I think there, you know,

01:39:44 ◼   ► You know, I wish that there was a Mac

01:39:47 ◼   ► Cuz you know the Mac is my favorite Apple product is my favorite product in the world

01:39:52 ◼   ► I wish there was a Mac that I could pick as a product of the decade

01:39:55 ◼   ► I do think that the Mac is back on track

01:39:58 ◼   ► I think that with the iMac Pro and the new 16 inch

01:40:03 ◼   ► MacBook Pro and

01:40:06 ◼   ► Even in the air from 2010 it defined like every ultra book that came out for the rest of the decade was based on that

01:40:11 ◼   ► Yeah, that would be my that's exactly where I was going was

01:40:16 ◼   ► that if you want to pick the product of the decade and not

01:40:19 ◼   ► be biased towards stuff that came out in the last 18 months

01:40:24 ◼   ► at the end of the decade, the 2010 MacBook Air is arguably

01:40:29 ◼   ► it has to be on the list because every single it got to the

01:40:35 ◼   ► point where unless you were looking at the back of the open

01:40:40 ◼   ► laptop to see if it had a glowing Apple logo, you

01:40:44 ◼   ► couldn't tell if it was a MacBook or not. Right. It was

01:40:47 ◼   ► like, yeah, if you're looking at the front of it, it was

01:40:50 ◼   ► aluminum, it was wedge shaped, it had a black keyboard that lit

01:40:53 ◼   ► up. And I mean, every single laptop looked like 2010 MacBook

01:41:00 ◼   ► Air for quite a number of years. I was funny, because when I

01:41:04 ◼   ► would put that on a shortlist,

01:41:06 ◼   ► totally. And when I did the product of the decade list, like

01:41:08 ◼   ► I was going through it and I looked at a bunch of other ones

01:41:11 ◼   ► like the Verge had the iPhone 4 at the top of their list.

01:41:15 ◼   ► And I think you can make an argument for that too

01:41:17 ◼   ► because it was such like the first retina display,

01:41:19 ◼   ► first front facing camera, all these things.

01:41:22 ◼   ► But when you look at that list and you go through it

01:41:24 ◼   ► from iPad to 2010 MacBook Air to the iPhone 4,

01:41:29 ◼   ► you could argue the iPad Pro maybe, AirPods, Apple Watch,

01:41:33 ◼   ► iPhone 10, there's not a lot of room

01:41:36 ◼   ► for other companies on that list.

01:41:37 ◼   ► And it's an amazing amount of technology for one company

01:41:41 ◼   ► to have put out to have changed the decade that much.

01:41:43 ◼   ► - Well, and you know, a company that's beleaguered and...

01:41:47 ◼   ► - Yes, and is failing and their worst decades

01:41:51 ◼   ► are behind them, they never attained the same.

01:41:52 ◼   ► - And clearly needs to fire their CEO.

01:41:55 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:41:56 ◼   ► What is that guy even doing?

01:41:59 ◼   ► - You know what's funny?

01:42:03 ◼   ► I've only been writing Daring Fireball since 2002.

01:42:07 ◼   ► And so, you know, it's coincided

01:42:11 ◼   ► with a very, very good run for Apple.

01:42:15 ◼   ► I wish that I'd been writing it since 1992

01:42:22 ◼   ► so that I could have that decade under my belt

01:42:26 ◼   ► of saying that the Apple, you know,

01:42:29 ◼   ► Apple does need a new CEO.

01:42:32 ◼   ► Apple CEO is an idiot.

01:42:35 ◼   ► Apple CEO doesn't get it.

01:42:37 ◼   ► I wish, because if you had listened to me,

01:42:40 ◼   ► if you had been my personal friend in that era,

01:42:42 ◼   ► you would have heard me rant about such things.

01:42:46 ◼   ► But it does make me wonder why,

01:42:50 ◼   ► like if the world is so critical of Tim Cook

01:42:56 ◼   ► and his stewardship of Apple over the last

01:43:01 ◼   ► nine years as CEO, what would they be saying if Apple actually did have a terrible CEO?

01:43:09 ◼   ► Like if Gill immediately if Gill Emilio was the CEO now,

01:43:15 ◼   ► it's absolutely astounding because when they when he was the CEO,

01:43:22 ◼   ► they were so much smaller and so much less consequential to the daily life of so many people.

01:43:29 ◼   ► There were people, there were columnists and commentators who astutely pointed out some

01:43:39 ◼   ► of the problems, but it's absolutely astounding to me how common the criticism is that Tim

01:43:49 ◼   ► Cook has done nothing as CEO. Still, even to this day, it really is, you know, the iPhone.

01:44:00 ◼   ► iPhone X truly was a total reset of the concept of what a cell phone should be. AirPods are

01:44:10 ◼   ► a true phenomenon. They still start at $160. They're very expensive for headphones.

01:44:22 ◼   ► And you see them everywhere. iPad is everywhere. Again, I have so many complaints. I cannot

01:44:33 ◼   ► even get into it as a—

01:44:37 ◼   ► I was watching that movie Noel on Disney+ over the holidays and every kid wanted an

01:44:41 ◼   ► iPad and you just can't buy that kind of mainstream publicity.

01:44:45 ◼   ► And again, that's not Apple TV+, that's Disney+, right?

01:44:51 ◼   ► The Mac is still going strong and yes, admittedly they even said at that thing a couple years

01:44:59 ◼   ► ago that they kind of took their eye off the ball with the Mac for a while.

01:45:05 ◼   ► But you know, the new, if anything, right now the only gap in the Mac lineup is this

01:45:14 ◼   ► is the idea of a mid range desktop, which clearly isn't been a gap forever, right?

01:45:20 ◼   ► But which clearly they know about, you know, there's, you could argue that with the trash

01:45:27 ◼   ► can style Mac Pro, that they had their eye off the ball of what a high end Mac Pro should

01:45:34 ◼   ► be that it was outside their view. Whereas if the gap is in the mid range, they at least know about

01:45:40 ◼   ► it. And whether they're going to whether they're going to fill the gap, or whether they feel like

01:45:47 ◼   ► the gap is okay, that we're just gonna let it be, they at least know there's no you can't possibly

01:45:55 ◼   ► not know about it. If you're making this device that, you know, is $52,000 and has 1.5 terabytes

01:46:03 ◼   ► It's a ram.

01:46:04 ◼   ► - That pro workflow team was such a stroke of genius

01:46:07 ◼   ► because having those people in there

01:46:08 ◼   ► to hit all this stuff before consumers have,

01:46:11 ◼   ► they're the ones arguing for the stuff inside Apple now,

01:46:13 ◼   ► doing everything that every pro wants inside the company.

01:46:16 ◼   ► And they have to,

01:46:17 ◼   ► like there was that great thing

01:46:18 ◼   ► about Steve Jobs hating consultants

01:46:19 ◼   ► because they had no skin in the game.

01:46:21 ◼   ► They didn't have to ship.

01:46:22 ◼   ► And these people have deliverables.

01:46:23 ◼   ► They're not just sitting there telling Apple what to do.

01:46:26 ◼   ► They have to make the stuff that Apple uses

01:46:28 ◼   ► inside the company.

01:46:29 ◼   ► And they're fighting not just for Apple stuff,

01:46:31 ◼   ► but they're fighting to make Adobe stuff run better.

01:46:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, totally. - On that, it's amazing.

01:46:35 ◼   ► - Absolutely. - Amazing, smart team.

01:46:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, all right, let me take one last spot here

01:46:40 ◼   ► and thank our fourth final sponsor,

01:46:43 ◼   ► last sponsor of the decade.

01:46:45 ◼   ► Unbelievable, I can't believe it.

01:46:47 ◼   ► I mean, how many sponsor reads have I done this decade?

01:46:50 ◼   ► But this is the last one I will do this decade,

01:46:52 ◼   ► and of course it's Squarespace.

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01:46:59 ◼   ► If you need a new website, they do everything.

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01:47:08 ◼   ► They can help you with a template to start with,

01:47:13 ◼   ► a professionally designed template

01:47:16 ◼   ► that looks great on everything from a cell phone

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01:47:26 ◼   ► Website that'll look great at any size and that you can start with the template

01:47:31 ◼   ► Customize it to your heart's content with your brand your company's brand whatever

01:47:37 ◼   ► Business you're running

01:47:40 ◼   ► brand and

01:47:42 ◼   ► the website can have whatever you need is is the website supposed to be a

01:47:48 ◼   ► Portfolio for your design work. It can be that is it a store where you're selling stuff?

01:47:54 ◼   ► It could be that is it a restaurant where you put a menu and you put hours and you put stuff like that

01:48:02 ◼   ► Everything everybody will want to know for a restaurant. It could be that

01:48:05 ◼   ► It whatever you need Squarespace can help you do it

01:48:11 ◼   ► It is the place to start

01:48:19 ◼   ► My recommendation whether you need a new website this year and I know it's New Year's and this is the time of year when people

01:48:26 ◼   ► Start thinking about like hey, I've been meaning to do XYZ

01:48:30 ◼   ► Here's my resolutions blah blah blah

01:48:33 ◼   ► if

01:48:34 ◼   ► You need a new website if somebody you know

01:48:37 ◼   ► Needs a new website and you're the nerd that they know and they come to you and they're like, what should I do?

01:48:43 ◼   ► I need help send them to Squarespace get them started you get 30 days

01:48:49 ◼   ► free no questions asked and then you only have to start paying at the end of

01:48:55 ◼   ► the 30 days odds on that's what you're gonna stick with because I'm telling you

01:49:02 ◼   ► start with Squarespace give it just like an hour two hours try to set something

01:49:07 ◼   ► up and you'll be off and running it is the best way to get started you can get

01:49:13 ◼   ► a free domain name if you sign up for a year in advance and you get a free trial like I

01:49:19 ◼   ► said for 30 days at squarespace.com/talkshow and when you do decide to start paying just

01:49:27 ◼   ► remember that code talk show t-a-l-k-s-h-o-w and you get 10% off your first purchase you

01:49:36 ◼   ► You could do that for the whole year.

01:49:38 ◼   ► 10% off the first year is like over a month free.

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01:49:49 ◼   ► for when you do decide to start paying.

01:49:52 ◼   ► And there you go.

01:49:53 ◼   ► That is the final sponsor read of this podcast

01:49:58 ◼   ► for the decade.

01:49:59 ◼   ► And don't give me this nonsense about decades starting

01:50:05 ◼   ► in the next year.

01:50:06 ◼   ► Nobody thinks that way.

01:50:08 ◼   ► Everybody knows. - It's not human readable.

01:50:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, it's, come on.

01:50:12 ◼   ► This is the end of the decade.

01:50:14 ◼   ► - It's like if you wanna win a pet into word,

01:50:15 ◼   ► you can go for that, but no.

01:50:16 ◼   ► - All right, so my pick is the iPhone X.

01:50:19 ◼   ► Your pick was the Apple Watch.

01:50:21 ◼   ► What else is, I think you're right that the MacBook Air

01:50:26 ◼   ► from like 2010 should be on that short list.

01:50:30 ◼   ► What else do you think is on the list

01:50:32 ◼   ► for the best products of the last decade?

01:50:35 ◼   ► There's a few things like from Apple

01:50:36 ◼   ► I mentioned already the iPad because it was literally born in 2010 and it seemed just update after update including the iPad Pro

01:50:42 ◼   ► Then you designed iPad Pro

01:50:44 ◼   ► Beyond Apple, I think Tesla like the model you could argue between the Model S or the Model 3

01:50:49 ◼   ► I think what they've done is really consumer eyes

01:50:52 ◼   ► What was previously sort of niche and it certainly popularized what was previously sort of niche technology?

01:51:01 ◼   ► So I was taught the last episode of the show is just mentioning I we don't drive a lot but I've still got this

01:51:08 ◼   ► 2006 Acura

01:51:10 ◼   ► And again at 2006 it doesn't even have it doesn't even have an I

01:51:17 ◼   ► iPod connector

01:51:19 ◼   ► You know, I mean it not only does it not have USB or carplay or anything it literally

01:51:25 ◼   ► We bought it the year before the iPod stuff

01:51:30 ◼   ► You know became a standard thing

01:51:32 ◼   ► It's it's an old car

01:51:34 ◼   ► And we you know

01:51:37 ◼   ► Over the holidays, you know, we went to see my wife's mom and we went to my parents house

01:51:43 ◼   ► And so, you know done, you know

01:51:46 ◼   ► we do a bit more driving at the end of December than we typically do by far and

01:51:50 ◼   ► I was pumping gas the other day because you know

01:51:54 ◼   ► We did the driving and we had to pump gas and I was like, this is ridiculous

01:51:59 ◼   ► Like when you really think about it, it's like

01:52:02 ◼   ► We're just pumping this

01:52:05 ◼   ► flammable liquid dead dinosaurs that is not that cheap right it's three bucks a gallon yeah, you know

01:52:14 ◼   ► It's more expensive than like Tropicana orange juice

01:52:19 ◼   ► It is pretty expensive. You're pumping it into a tank, and then you're just lighting it on

01:52:28 ◼   ► Yes, it is not efficient. So I I do give Tesla credit, you know

01:52:35 ◼   ► Again, I I don't love any of their cars except for this new I love the cyber. Yeah

01:52:43 ◼   ► I love it and I get it that it's sort of

01:52:46 ◼   ► Ridiculously over the top but I kind of feel like they screwed up with all of their previous

01:52:54 ◼   ► designs where they kind of made all of their previous designs look like

01:53:00 ◼   ► Mid-range

01:53:03 ◼   ► Japanese

01:53:04 ◼   ► Honda

01:53:06 ◼   ► Toyota

01:53:07 ◼   ► You know, yeah like generic but sort of messed up generic, right?

01:53:12 ◼   ► And then the only thing that was really distinctive about them was when they got rid of the grill in the front

01:53:19 ◼   ► yes, they didn't need it but

01:53:22 ◼   ► Aesthetically it looked like cars that had their mouths sewn shut. Yeah. Yeah

01:53:28 ◼   ► You know what? I mean? Whereas the new Cybertruck like the bad Deadpool from that horrible Wolverine exactly

01:53:34 ◼   ► exactly

01:53:37 ◼   ► It just looks it just looked like a car

01:53:40 ◼   ► The the Tesla's without the grills to me just look like cars that are suffocating

01:53:46 ◼   ► They don't they don't look good and I get it

01:53:49 ◼   ► I totally get that if you don't need a grill, you shouldn't have a grill just for aesthetic reasons

01:53:56 ◼   ► And I get that it's at painted

01:53:59 ◼   ► BMW in particular into a design corner because

01:54:04 ◼   ► They're one of their signatures of all of their cars are those kidney bean

01:54:09 ◼   ► Grills on the front and if they don't need them what how are you gonna know it's a BMW I get it

01:54:16 ◼   ► I get it.

01:54:18 ◼   ► But it's an opportunity for a company like Tesla

01:54:22 ◼   ► that has no gas-driven or diesel-driven car--

01:54:28 ◼   ► no legacy.

01:54:29 ◼   ► And just sealing it up was sort of the wrong decision,

01:54:35 ◼   ► in my opinion.

01:54:36 ◼   ► Yeah, no, totally.

01:54:37 ◼   ► And the profile of their cars, they're

01:54:42 ◼   ► just not that great looking of cars in my opinion. I get it that they drive cool and

01:54:48 ◼   ► they accelerate fast and there's all sorts of good things, but just looking at them,

01:54:54 ◼   ► they're not that cool. I think that the Cybertruck, which is a ridiculous name, but I love it.

01:55:02 ◼   ► I just love it. It's like the DeLorean Motor Company never

01:55:10 ◼   ► went away, you know, and they just kept, you know, if they hadn't gone, if they had somehow

01:55:16 ◼   ► succeeded in the early 80s, you know, and they were still around today, that's what

01:55:23 ◼   ► they would be making, you know, and I love it.

01:55:26 ◼   ► I think, I just wish that they would make a, I have no need for a truck at all.

01:55:32 ◼   ► Absolutely not.

01:55:34 ◼   ► But I need a car, so I just wish that, you know, and I don't think it's too much to

01:55:39 ◼   ► extrapolate that maybe their next car would be from the design language of the

01:55:45 ◼   ► Cybertruck but that's what I want I want a sedan yeah I want a sedan from the

01:55:51 ◼   ► design language of the Tesla Cybertruck I love smartest like inside people are

01:55:55 ◼   ► like where's the stuff to connect it's got like NASA quality connections you

01:55:59 ◼   ► just loop things over the whole thing is so smartly thought out yeah like granted

01:56:03 ◼   ► I'm sure everything he makes is secretly for Mars like from the tunnels to the

01:56:06 ◼   ► trucks to everything, but you know, utility is utility.

01:56:09 ◼   ► Yeah, I love it. And to me is the promise of Tesla. It's the

01:56:15 ◼   ► first it's the two most interesting Tesla products to

01:56:20 ◼   ► me are the the roadster, which was their first car. Yeah, you

01:56:25 ◼   ► know, it was sort of a Miata style. It was literally a Lotus

01:56:28 ◼   ► I think. Yeah, like, Lotus. Yeah, it was I definitely a

01:56:33 ◼   ► Lotus hardware with a Tesla drivetrain and this Cybertruck.

01:56:40 ◼   ► And I really feel like the Cybertruck to me is the first thing that made me look at Tesla

01:56:46 ◼   ► and say, I think that this company really might do what all of its proponents are saying

01:56:53 ◼   ► they might do.

01:56:54 ◼   ► They might really own the car business going forward.

01:56:59 ◼   ► If they extrapolate that design language into a full line of cars, I I think it's brilliant

01:57:06 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely and nothing else is really like it. Yeah, it's just lead distinct and it's authentic is what it feels like

01:57:12 ◼   ► Yeah, and you know and to me they they took some steps backward, you know

01:57:18 ◼   ► Like the model X with those gull wings that go up dumb and the model 3 is like

01:57:26 ◼   ► You know what it I get it that is more affordable, but it's way less cool than the Model S

01:57:31 ◼   ► You know the Model S is looks way better, but the Model S. Which is expensive and which is

01:57:37 ◼   ► Undeniably a great sedan

01:57:40 ◼   ► Yes in my opinion doesn't look great

01:57:43 ◼   ► It doesn't look bad, but it doesn't look it doesn't look like Tesla had to make it if it doesn't look like Tesla had to

01:57:49 ◼   ► Make it. What's the point of making it exactly whereas the Cybertruck? It's like oh, man. They had to yeah

01:57:55 ◼   ► nobody else could have made this car and to me that's the one what you want is that reaction

01:58:03 ◼   ► like when when apple announced the original iphone and yeah famously the the blackberry people had

01:58:10 ◼   ► a high level meeting the next day and they came to the conclusion that apple had faked it and it was

01:58:17 ◼   ► a complete fraud that it was impossible they were like well the bottom line is that they couldn't

01:58:24 ◼   ► have done this so they must be lying. I don't know what they're going to do in six months when they

01:58:29 ◼   ► say they're going to ship it but it can't possibly be what they say it is. When in fact it actually

01:58:35 ◼   ► was. That's what you want, right? And that to me is the Cybertruck. The Cybertruck is like people

01:58:41 ◼   ► from Ford and Chevy and whoever else, Honda, Toyota, they're like, "Ah, nobody's going to buy

01:58:46 ◼   ► that. It looks like, you know, Back to the Future fan fiction or something like that." Yeah, guess

01:58:53 ◼   ► Guess what? That's what you want from the other companies.

01:58:55 ◼   ► Whereas like the Model S, it's like,

01:58:58 ◼   ► it just looks like a really nice, you know, Honda Accord.

01:59:01 ◼   ► - Like anyone to try to get a crafted out.

01:59:03 ◼   ► - And then, you know, it's like you just sort of

01:59:05 ◼   ► stretch this one part out and...

01:59:07 ◼   ► - Yeah. Totally.

01:59:09 ◼   ► - All right. What else? End of the decade. Last episode.

01:59:13 ◼   ► - I'd argue the Echo, because it really sort of

01:59:16 ◼   ► popularizing everything about the home base

01:59:18 ◼   ► for far field digital assistant.

01:59:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I could see that in a,

01:59:25 ◼   ► in a kind of introduced people to the whole,

01:59:28 ◼   ► let's have a device where the primary interface is talking to it, you know?

01:59:33 ◼   ► Yeah. Which I think going forward,

01:59:38 ◼   ► you know, hold me to it, René. Yes.

01:59:43 ◼   ► 10 years from now,

01:59:44 ◼   ► let's record the end of the 2020s episode.

01:59:49 ◼   ► Me and you, I do think that that,

01:59:52 ◼   ► the defining interface of the next decade it you know it's it's natural

01:59:59 ◼   ► it's what humans do we talk right we we communicate ideas and so far they've

02:00:07 ◼   ► been so primitive just so utterly primitive you know and and you know I'm

02:00:13 ◼   ► a huge Kubrick fan and and 2001 predicted that by 2001 we'd have this

02:00:19 ◼   ► how 9,000 capability at least in like

02:00:23 ◼   ► You know trillion dollar spaceship, but even even with the trillion dollars you couldn't buy a how 2000 today, right?

02:00:31 ◼   ► Yeah, even Jeff Bezos Knight Rider, right? Jeff Bezos and Tim Cook cannot get Knight Rider

02:00:38 ◼   ► quality

02:00:40 ◼   ► AI today, it's hard. It is it is much harder than we thought but it's it's so obviously

02:00:48 ◼   ► obviously

02:00:50 ◼   ► The way the future like we've conquered the visual computer

02:00:55 ◼   ► interface and

02:00:57 ◼   ► I don't mean that to say that there's nowhere to go that that ten years from now our visual

02:01:04 ◼   ► GUI interfaces will look exactly the same

02:01:07 ◼   ► but

02:01:09 ◼   ► We did I mean we conquered this a long time ago

02:01:12 ◼   ► I would say you know in the first decade in the 80s 80s through the mid 90s. We kind of

02:01:18 ◼   ► conquered the basic concepts of what should a computer interface on a screen

02:01:24 ◼   ► look like. And even if VR becomes a huge thing, it's still the... it's just a display...

02:01:35 ◼   ► It's like UI elements are still UI elements. Exactly. It's a display problem

02:01:41 ◼   ► and a battery life problem and a field of view problem,

02:01:46 ◼   ► but the basic idea of if we present people

02:01:50 ◼   ► with these things on screen, we know how to do it well.

02:01:54 ◼   ► And we know, you'll see a scrolling list in front of you

02:01:58 ◼   ► and you just move your hands and you'll do this.

02:02:01 ◼   ► Whereas the verbal interface of speaking to a thing,

02:02:06 ◼   ► we know what it should be like.

02:02:10 ◼   ► It should be like me talking to you.

02:02:13 ◼   ► And I say things to you that the transcript

02:02:17 ◼   ► of which may not make that much sense, but you get it.

02:02:21 ◼   ► And all of the thousands of people listening to me

02:02:23 ◼   ► talk to you get it.

02:02:25 ◼   ► We just expect it being the computer to get it.

02:02:31 ◼   ► That to me is the next step. - Conversational inference.

02:02:34 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely.

02:02:35 ◼   ► That's why like when Apple hired John Giannandrea,

02:02:38 ◼   ► I was sort of happy because I think Apple's

02:02:40 ◼   ► near-term future has to involve some form of Siri OS,

02:02:43 ◼   ► whether it's an actual Siri OS,

02:02:45 ◼   ► or it's just a spread out distributed

02:02:48 ◼   ► across a variety of devices.

02:02:49 ◼   ► As much as we hear rumors about them working on reality OS

02:02:52 ◼   ► for the glasses, I really hope that they're working

02:02:55 ◼   ► even harder on Siri OS because whether

02:02:58 ◼   ► that's never gonna fully replace screens,

02:03:00 ◼   ► but it's gonna be a huge part of our-

02:03:01 ◼   ► - I think it's more important going forward.

02:03:04 ◼   ► I'm, and again, 10 years from now, you'll be on the show,

02:03:10 ◼   ► maybe I'll have to eat my words.

02:03:11 ◼   ► Maybe we'll have to listen to this particular episode and go back and,

02:03:15 ◼   ► and I'll be like, John, we were crazy at carefully. We predicted that.

02:03:18 ◼   ► I think that the verbal interface is way more important than the,

02:03:24 ◼   ► than a VR visual interface. And I get it.

02:03:28 ◼   ► I totally get that. Like, uh, you know,

02:03:32 ◼   ► like having,

02:03:33 ◼   ► if you have always on glasses that have this and they can

02:03:38 ◼   ► always pop up, you know, the name of people, you know, somebody you've only met once and

02:03:44 ◼   ► it just pops the person's name over their head and you can always know their name. That

02:03:48 ◼   ► would be great. I need that. I totally get it. But I still feel that fundamentally the

02:03:55 ◼   ► idea of how that would work, we've already worked out, you know, whereas the idea of

02:04:02 ◼   ► how the verbal interface will work has not been worked out yet and like the

02:04:09 ◼   ► movie her is a good template and well near that yet oh absolutely you know yeah

02:04:14 ◼   ► and well and and you know this is not the Star Wars holiday spectacular yes

02:04:22 ◼   ► although I should say to those of you listening you know who knows maybe the

02:04:26 ◼   ► next episode will be, first episode of 2020. I mean, I gotta have a Star Wars holiday spectacular

02:04:34 ◼   ► soon thanks to the new movie. But I will say that to me, one of the many brilliant ideas

02:04:42 ◼   ► of the original Star Wars movie from 1977 was that moment when C-3PO starts coming down

02:04:48 ◼   ► the steps and the bartender is like, "We don't serve your kind here." And he's like, "Get

02:04:52 ◼   ► out of here. And there's like this resentment towards droids and automation. And I, that

02:05:01 ◼   ► whole sort of disdain towards droids is, is really brilliant. Because as a kid, I was

02:05:11 ◼   ► like, Oh my God, why wouldn't you want that? I would love if I owned any business, any

02:05:15 ◼   ► business imaginable to mankind. A bar, a restaurant, a hardware store,

02:05:20 ◼   ► anything, even a hair salon. I would still welcome a droid. If a droid came in, if C-3PO came in,

02:05:28 ◼   ► I'd be like, "Come on in!" I would love to talk to you because you are amazing because you're a

02:05:35 ◼   ► robot who can talk and walk and do things, right? The idea that in that universe that there's this

02:05:42 ◼   ► disdain towards droids was to me one of the most brilliant ideas because it was clearly

02:05:49 ◼   ► super exciting that they existed but also super insightful that maybe the you know carbon-based

02:05:57 ◼   ► light forms would be yeah disdainful of them uh i you know where are we going with this you know

02:06:05 ◼   ► like i i i often my wife gives me a hard time because i'll say something to one of our assistants

02:06:11 ◼   ► whether it's, you know, we've got the Alexa stuff and we've got the Siri stuff and I'll say something to one of them and then I

02:06:17 ◼   ► Often have to at the end of it. I say thank you

02:06:20 ◼   ► And I know I'm being a smartass and I know that it doesn't do anything and my wife is like, why are you doing it?

02:06:28 ◼   ► Why do you say thank you? You're an asshole, you know

02:06:30 ◼   ► Well, I just don't want to be a jerk, but I kind of feel like as a society

02:06:37 ◼   ► We're tending towards we're gonna be jerks to the assistance. Yeah

02:06:41 ◼   ► Yeah, it is human nature and we like to be jerks to things that we can be jerks to

02:06:47 ◼   ► you know and it's like, you know a society has gotten more progressive and so like

02:06:54 ◼   ► You don't want to get into an uber and be a jerk to your uber driver because you feel like a jerk

02:07:05 ◼   ► But you there's like a human nature where a lot of people like to be jerks and if you can be a jerk to a robot

02:07:12 ◼   ► That would be you know

02:07:14 ◼   ► There's no downside to it and I kind of feel like that's where we're going

02:07:18 ◼   ► Like we want one like the Google one for kids forces you to use your manners and say please and thank you

02:07:23 ◼   ► Yeah, there is or an Amazon one. I feel like there's one of those that do that

02:07:26 ◼   ► Well, I and I kind of feel like that it's fighting a losing battle

02:07:31 ◼   ► Like that's my one of my predictions for the coming decade. Is that the somebody?

02:07:36 ◼   ► One or more companies are gonna get the voice assistant thing really good. They're gonna become a

02:07:43 ◼   ► major part of daily life and

02:07:45 ◼   ► Most people are gonna be total

02:07:48 ◼   ► jerks to the system and

02:07:51 ◼   ► Not me and I'm gonna be this weirdo

02:07:55 ◼   ► It's you know like in a way that likes, you know, some people are like, oh, that's the guy who wears a bowtie

02:08:00 ◼   ► I'm going to be the guy who continues to say thank you to his voice assistant.

02:08:05 ◼   ► Yeah, I do it too, but I always thought it was because I was Canadian, but I'll use your word.

02:08:10 ◼   ► I'm Canadian without liking cold weather.

02:08:15 ◼   ► I probably should have been born in Canada, to tell you the truth.