The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► Is this the show? This is the show?

00:00:02 ◼   ► It could be. Whatever. I'm rolling.

00:00:04 ◼   ► I think this is the show.

00:00:06 ◼   ► Why not?

00:00:08 ◼   ► It's the silly Apple

00:00:10 ◼   ► season. And again, it feels

00:00:12 ◼   ► like we've had a

00:00:14 ◼   ► year's worth of news, right?

00:00:16 ◼   ► I know there's more. There's more coming.

00:00:18 ◼   ► Including clearly the two most interesting

00:00:20 ◼   ► iPhones, which again,

00:00:22 ◼   ► I wrote a lot about

00:00:24 ◼   ► the... I know it's bad.

00:00:26 ◼   ► My iPhone reviews tend to be long.

00:00:28 ◼   ► And I knew I had a lot to say

00:00:30 ◼   ► about the event

00:00:32 ◼   ► before I even wrote about

00:00:34 ◼   ► the reviews and my thoughts on the

00:00:36 ◼   ► event and just the stuff that they

00:00:38 ◼   ► announced. So it's like you get like these

00:00:40 ◼   ► review units. You have an embargo and you're

00:00:42 ◼   ► not allowed to write about them until the embargo passes.

00:00:44 ◼   ► And my thoughts on the event were taking

00:00:46 ◼   ► me so long that I had already gotten the

00:00:48 ◼   ► review units. And so

00:00:50 ◼   ► I had to be careful that

00:00:52 ◼   ► my... you know, because I

00:00:54 ◼   ► you know, I don't think Apple

00:00:56 ◼   ► is going to take me to court, you know.

00:00:58 ◼   ► If like information I could only know

00:01:00 ◼   ► could only glean from having

00:01:02 ◼   ► started using them worked

00:01:04 ◼   ► its way into

00:01:06 ◼   ► you know, the pre- embargo

00:01:08 ◼   ► piece. But you know, you want to play by the rules.

00:01:10 ◼   ► You know, it's being honest.

00:01:12 ◼   ► Yeah, you could be... you could

00:01:14 ◼   ► maybe be informed by some of the things. Like

00:01:16 ◼   ► you could have it confirm a suspicion, but you can't go

00:01:18 ◼   ► beyond that. Like I didn't get the iPhones

00:01:20 ◼   ► in advance, but I got the iPad Air in advance. And it was like

00:01:22 ◼   ► suffice it to say I had some opinions

00:01:24 ◼   ► about the A14 that were

00:01:26 ◼   ► informed by the fact that I had one,

00:01:28 ◼   ► right? Even though I didn't have a phone, I had

00:01:30 ◼   ► a device with it. But yeah,

00:01:32 ◼   ► you want to play fair with all of that.

00:01:34 ◼   ► I really wanted to get some stuff off my chest

00:01:36 ◼   ► that you... I felt like I could write

00:01:38 ◼   ► I could write about the pricing. I had

00:01:40 ◼   ► a lot of thoughts to say about the pricing.

00:01:42 ◼   ► And the

00:01:44 ◼   ► charger being in the box

00:01:46 ◼   ► which is sort of related to pricing

00:01:48 ◼   ► because let's face it, you know, everybody's making

00:01:50 ◼   ► the same point that Apple says, "Hey, this is great

00:01:52 ◼   ► for the environment." And a lot of people are saying,

00:01:54 ◼   ► "No, this is about cheaping out

00:01:56 ◼   ► on the charger." And

00:01:58 ◼   ► the truth is it's both, right?

00:02:00 ◼   ► It is both clearly cheaper.

00:02:02 ◼   ► However much it costs Apple

00:02:04 ◼   ► to make all the

00:02:06 ◼   ► chargers that they put in a box and to

00:02:08 ◼   ► make bigger boxes and

00:02:10 ◼   ► to ship those boxes, it

00:02:12 ◼   ► is clearly cheaper to do it

00:02:14 ◼   ► without. But it's also better for the environment

00:02:16 ◼   ► if people only buy chargers they actually need.

00:02:18 ◼   ► So it's both true.

00:02:20 ◼   ► But I wanted to get that out of the way

00:02:22 ◼   ► before I actually

00:02:24 ◼   ► wrote the official iPhone

00:02:26 ◼   ► 12 review.

00:02:28 ◼   ► Because I knew I had so much to say.

00:02:30 ◼   ► And I know it's bad when I

00:02:32 ◼   ► feel like, "Hey, I have a lot of thoughts about this."

00:02:34 ◼   ► Because sometimes I think, "Hey, this one's going to be

00:02:36 ◼   ► short." And it's still long.

00:02:38 ◼   ► When I feel like it's going to

00:02:40 ◼   ► be long when I start, I know it's going to be

00:02:42 ◼   ► trouble. And I kept thinking

00:02:44 ◼   ► as I was trying to bring it home

00:02:46 ◼   ► and wrap it up, "These

00:02:48 ◼   ► are not the two most interesting iPhones of the year.

00:02:50 ◼   ► These are the two that are... Not that they're

00:02:52 ◼   ► not interesting, but they're not the most interesting."

00:02:54 ◼   ► Yeah. No,

00:02:56 ◼   ► I think you're right. The outliers... I got

00:02:58 ◼   ► to the end of my review and it was like,

00:03:00 ◼   ► "To be continued," almost. Because

00:03:02 ◼   ► these are

00:03:04 ◼   ► the... I would say the two models

00:03:06 ◼   ► that we have are the ones that will

00:03:08 ◼   ► sell the best. But

00:03:10 ◼   ► they're also... Not only

00:03:12 ◼   ► are they kind of boring because

00:03:14 ◼   ► they're so similar to what's

00:03:16 ◼   ► come before and they're not the weird outliers

00:03:18 ◼   ► that have fascinating

00:03:20 ◼   ► quirks about them. But

00:03:22 ◼   ► also they're

00:03:24 ◼   ► so much like one another in a way that

00:03:26 ◼   ► last year the 11 and 11 Pro

00:03:28 ◼   ► weren't. So they're even more

00:03:30 ◼   ► similar. So it's fascinating because

00:03:32 ◼   ► I would say the 12 and the 12 Pro are the two

00:03:34 ◼   ► most important iPhones.

00:03:36 ◼   ► But are they the most interesting?

00:03:38 ◼   ► No, they're not. They're not.

00:03:40 ◼   ► And it's just a strange

00:03:42 ◼   ► thing to have to deal with when you're writing

00:03:44 ◼   ► about them. And we'll get to them later

00:03:46 ◼   ► in the show in the official iPhone 12

00:03:48 ◼   ► segment.

00:03:50 ◼   ► But I will say this, just

00:03:52 ◼   ► upfront. Do you think

00:03:54 ◼   ► strategically

00:03:56 ◼   ► that Apple...

00:03:58 ◼   ► How much of this timing of the release

00:04:00 ◼   ► of these phones... I mean, clearly, the

00:04:02 ◼   ► whole thing is a little bit late

00:04:04 ◼   ► compared to usual

00:04:06 ◼   ► because of all the delays

00:04:08 ◼   ► from COVID-19.

00:04:10 ◼   ► I mean, Apple has even said so.

00:04:12 ◼   ► They said so in July

00:04:14 ◼   ► or three months ago in the last earnings.

00:04:16 ◼   ► They were like, "Look, our usual schedule

00:04:18 ◼   ► disrupted. New phones

00:04:20 ◼   ► this year will be a little late." And it's extraordinary

00:04:22 ◼   ► for them to even acknowledge

00:04:24 ◼   ► what everybody expects to be true, that there are

00:04:26 ◼   ► new phones. Right? Like, that's... Part

00:04:28 ◼   ► of it, everybody knows Apple's secretive. But they're so

00:04:30 ◼   ► secretive and they're just... It's not even

00:04:32 ◼   ► secretive. They're just so tight-lipped that officially,

00:04:34 ◼   ► they don't even

00:04:36 ◼   ► acknowledge that they plan

00:04:38 ◼   ► to release new phones.

00:04:40 ◼   ► The official

00:04:42 ◼   ► Apple party line each year

00:04:44 ◼   ► until invitations

00:04:46 ◼   ► go out for the

00:04:48 ◼   ► September event, until the

00:04:50 ◼   ► moment that they send press invitations,

00:04:52 ◼   ► their official line is

00:04:54 ◼   ► "Last year's iPhones are our

00:04:56 ◼   ► iPhones and they're our best iPhones ever."

00:04:58 ◼   ► Yeah, you don't know. Maybe we

00:05:00 ◼   ► have no more phones. Maybe this is it.

00:05:02 ◼   ► Right.

00:05:04 ◼   ► How much of it do you think is...

00:05:06 ◼   ► I think

00:05:08 ◼   ► that in

00:05:10 ◼   ► 2017, the extreme

00:05:12 ◼   ► delay of the iPhone X was just that

00:05:14 ◼   ► they were so pressing

00:05:16 ◼   ► themselves on the limits

00:05:18 ◼   ► of what they could make. Like

00:05:20 ◼   ► their first OLED screen and

00:05:22 ◼   ► first edge-to-edge thing.

00:05:24 ◼   ► And face ID and all this

00:05:26 ◼   ► new stuff. And it didn't ship until

00:05:28 ◼   ► November, really

00:05:30 ◼   ► late compared to the iPhone's 8, which

00:05:32 ◼   ► were really just a very

00:05:34 ◼   ► linear

00:05:36 ◼   ► evolution

00:05:38 ◼   ► of the iPhone 7, which is the iPhone 6.

00:05:40 ◼   ► That's the iPhone 6.

00:05:42 ◼   ► The next year,

00:05:44 ◼   ► it was the opposite, where the XS and

00:05:46 ◼   ► XS Pro

00:05:48 ◼   ► shipped more or less

00:05:50 ◼   ► on what you would think is the usual schedule

00:05:52 ◼   ► a couple of weeks after the event.

00:05:54 ◼   ► And it was the iPhone XR

00:05:56 ◼   ► that was late.

00:05:58 ◼   ► And then last year,

00:06:00 ◼   ► they got

00:06:02 ◼   ► their crap together.

00:06:04 ◼   ► And everything, the iPhone 11

00:06:06 ◼   ► and the 11 Pro all shipped

00:06:08 ◼   ► on September 20th.

00:06:10 ◼   ► I don't, you know,

00:06:12 ◼   ► so it's been different every year.

00:06:14 ◼   ► This year, obviously, there's COVID.

00:06:16 ◼   ► So,

00:06:18 ◼   ► barring the initial delay of

00:06:20 ◼   ► COVID, do you think that they wanted to ship

00:06:22 ◼   ► all four at once or they always planned?

00:06:24 ◼   ► Even if this year had 2020,

00:06:26 ◼   ► if everybody thought, "Boy, 2020 is the most normal

00:06:28 ◼   ► boring year of

00:06:30 ◼   ► mankind."

00:06:32 ◼   ► Do you think that they would have still shipped

00:06:34 ◼   ► these on a delayed schedule?

00:06:36 ◼   ► I don't.

00:06:38 ◼   ► And that isn't me thinking

00:06:40 ◼   ► that they don't want to. I think if they could

00:06:42 ◼   ► wave a magic wand and announce and

00:06:44 ◼   ► ship simultaneously all iPhone

00:06:46 ◼   ► models, I think they would.

00:06:48 ◼   ► I think there are just some,

00:06:50 ◼   ► it's not just COVID, I think there are production

00:06:52 ◼   ► issues and logistics

00:06:54 ◼   ► issues in having

00:06:56 ◼   ► all of those units. And I think

00:06:58 ◼   ► maybe in the case of this year,

00:07:00 ◼   ► they're also prioritizing the ones that are

00:07:02 ◼   ► going to sell the most and loading as

00:07:04 ◼   ► many of those, front-loading those, making

00:07:06 ◼   ► more of them, shipping more of them

00:07:08 ◼   ► so that they can get those out there because

00:07:10 ◼   ► they're the most, they're the biggest sellers,

00:07:12 ◼   ► presumably.

00:07:14 ◼   ► You never know, but presumably.

00:07:16 ◼   ► And then you follow with the others.

00:07:18 ◼   ► But I think if they could

00:07:20 ◼   ► just all practicalities

00:07:22 ◼   ► and logistics aside,

00:07:24 ◼   ► plan the perfect rollout,

00:07:26 ◼   ► I think they would probably want to roll them

00:07:28 ◼   ► out all simultaneously just because

00:07:30 ◼   ► from a customer perspective, and I do think they care

00:07:32 ◼   ► about this, it would be a lot easier to say

00:07:34 ◼   ► go online, pick your phone and it'll show up

00:07:36 ◼   ► on this date. It doesn't matter which

00:07:38 ◼   ► one you pick because you get in a

00:07:40 ◼   ► situation where people are like, well, do I want a 12?

00:07:42 ◼   ► Do I want the mini? I want to try the mini, but I

00:07:44 ◼   ► can't because it's not in the stores yet.

00:07:46 ◼   ► And so I don't know. And it's

00:07:48 ◼   ► a lot clearer, they just want you to buy a phone,

00:07:50 ◼   ► right? So if you know about all four of

00:07:52 ◼   ► them and you could go to the store and handle them

00:07:54 ◼   ► if you wanted to, if your store is open, then

00:07:56 ◼   ► that's going to sell a phone

00:07:58 ◼   ► to you and instead you get

00:08:00 ◼   ► this weird kind of in between. So I

00:08:02 ◼   ► don't think logistically they can

00:08:04 ◼   ► do that is the thing. And that's

00:08:06 ◼   ► besides COVID. I think it's just

00:08:08 ◼   ► I think it's probably their ideal.

00:08:10 ◼   ► Their dream is to do that.

00:08:12 ◼   ► But they sell so many phones.

00:08:14 ◼   ► The volumes are so

00:08:16 ◼   ► amazing that I think that even

00:08:18 ◼   ► Apple can't pack

00:08:20 ◼   ► the supply chain that

00:08:22 ◼   ► much at once.

00:08:24 ◼   ► I think 2017 might

00:08:26 ◼   ► have been the exception. And I think the

00:08:28 ◼   ► iPhone 10 did ship

00:08:30 ◼   ► so much later than the iPhone

00:08:32 ◼   ► 8 because it was just harder to

00:08:34 ◼   ► produce and it was just really

00:08:36 ◼   ► I think it wasn't ready. But I think even

00:08:38 ◼   ► if it had been ready, I think they might

00:08:40 ◼   ► have staggered that one by two weeks

00:08:42 ◼   ► so that the iPhone 8

00:08:44 ◼   ► didn't get lost in the shuffle.

00:08:46 ◼   ► I think they still would have shipped the iPhone 8 first

00:08:48 ◼   ► but maybe shipped the iPhone 10

00:08:50 ◼   ► two weeks later so that the iPhone

00:08:52 ◼   ► 8 got its moment in the sun

00:08:54 ◼   ► because price wise they just knew

00:08:56 ◼   ► that that was more in the budget

00:08:58 ◼   ► for most people.

00:09:00 ◼   ► It could be.

00:09:02 ◼   ► It could be. I think what's

00:09:04 ◼   ► funny is there's a question of

00:09:06 ◼   ► how you want to market this

00:09:08 ◼   ► like literally market it. Take it

00:09:10 ◼   ► to market. And there's how do you want to

00:09:12 ◼   ► promote it. And

00:09:14 ◼   ► they've shown.

00:09:16 ◼   ► Literally they announced in September

00:09:18 ◼   ► a product that shipped

00:09:20 ◼   ► simultaneous with a product that they

00:09:22 ◼   ► announced in October.

00:09:24 ◼   ► Like which gave the

00:09:26 ◼   ► iPad Air

00:09:28 ◼   ► its due and its moment in the sun

00:09:30 ◼   ► and they staggered

00:09:32 ◼   ► the review embargo. So the phone embargo

00:09:34 ◼   ► was on a Tuesday and the iPad

00:09:36 ◼   ► embargo was on a Wednesday. Yes the September

00:09:38 ◼   ► products embargo was later than the October products

00:09:40 ◼   ► I don't know. But so there's an argument

00:09:42 ◼   ► to be made that staggering

00:09:44 ◼   ► everything like that and doing multiple

00:09:46 ◼   ► events is actually better

00:09:48 ◼   ► because everything gets

00:09:50 ◼   ► its moment in the sun but you do risk

00:09:52 ◼   ► sort of fatigue after a certain point

00:09:54 ◼   ► so it's a trick of like what's

00:09:56 ◼   ► the sweet spot of

00:09:58 ◼   ► simplicity in terms of ordering

00:10:00 ◼   ► and availability and clarity

00:10:02 ◼   ► in terms of what

00:10:04 ◼   ► customers expect and also

00:10:06 ◼   ► like how you what's

00:10:08 ◼   ► the sweet spot with the press where it's

00:10:10 ◼   ► just enough to get the maximum

00:10:12 ◼   ► because they want to maximize

00:10:14 ◼   ► promotion through product reviews

00:10:16 ◼   ► and how do you do that? How many events

00:10:18 ◼   ► do you hold? Apparently three. How many

00:10:20 ◼   ► products do you roll out one time

00:10:22 ◼   ► and you know and they're probably experimenting

00:10:24 ◼   ► a little bit too. I mean some of it is

00:10:26 ◼   ► probably artificial where they're

00:10:28 ◼   ► like because you know they're

00:10:30 ◼   ► going to get two waves of iPhone

00:10:32 ◼   ► reviews just like they did with the 10R

00:10:34 ◼   ► just like they did with the 10

00:10:36 ◼   ► so that's good that's more

00:10:38 ◼   ► press for them. Right and

00:10:40 ◼   ► yeah

00:10:42 ◼   ► so part of it makes me think that it's

00:10:44 ◼   ► you know three weeks isn't

00:10:46 ◼   ► that long in the grand scheme of things

00:10:48 ◼   ► you know it

00:10:50 ◼   ► is for the people I pity

00:10:52 ◼   ► and you know they're listening to us

00:10:54 ◼   ► right now they're the enthusiasts who

00:10:56 ◼   ► really do want to

00:10:58 ◼   ► if they're going to get a new phone

00:11:00 ◼   ► they really are most likely to want to

00:11:02 ◼   ► order right away they're the people who know

00:11:04 ◼   ► they know that like that

00:11:06 ◼   ► when Apple's online orders start

00:11:08 ◼   ► it's like what is it now

00:11:10 ◼   ► midnight eastern time

00:11:12 ◼   ► no I think it's like 9 am eastern

00:11:14 ◼   ► or 6 am eastern or something like that

00:11:16 ◼   ► it's like a good time for the east coast

00:11:18 ◼   ► and a bad time for the west coast and it used to be the other

00:11:20 ◼   ► way around right where it was midnight

00:11:22 ◼   ► that's what I'm thinking

00:11:24 ◼   ► midnight used to be midnight west coast

00:11:26 ◼   ► and 3 am east coast which

00:11:28 ◼   ► was literally the middle of the night for most

00:11:30 ◼   ► people

00:11:32 ◼   ► the people who know that

00:11:34 ◼   ► are the people who most want to

00:11:36 ◼   ► hear like although

00:11:38 ◼   ► those early order times

00:11:40 ◼   ► always happen before the reviews

00:11:42 ◼   ► come out but people who do that they want to hear

00:11:44 ◼   ► hey is the mini too

00:11:46 ◼   ► small you know is

00:11:48 ◼   ► is this new camera

00:11:50 ◼   ► sensor in the

00:11:52 ◼   ► the max worth

00:11:54 ◼   ► having a phone that maybe I think is too big

00:11:56 ◼   ► but I take so many photos and it is my

00:11:58 ◼   ► family's point and shoot camera

00:12:00 ◼   ► that maybe it's worth it they want to know that

00:12:02 ◼   ► and like you don't get to wait and

00:12:04 ◼   ► then maybe when these reviews

00:12:06 ◼   ► finally drop eventually for those

00:12:08 ◼   ► phones they'll say ah now I

00:12:10 ◼   ► I really do just want the regular iPhone 12

00:12:12 ◼   ► I could have ordered it 3 weeks ago right

00:12:14 ◼   ► so I you know

00:12:16 ◼   ► it's frustrating for the enthusiasts

00:12:18 ◼   ► by next you know

00:12:20 ◼   ► by the middle of December it's all in the past

00:12:22 ◼   ► and it's just the new iPhone 12

00:12:24 ◼   ► most people will just drift into an Apple

00:12:26 ◼   ► store again if their store is open

00:12:28 ◼   ► and they can drift in in December

00:12:30 ◼   ► and then throughout next year

00:12:32 ◼   ► and they'll have all the phones and they'll just buy a phone

00:12:34 ◼   ► it's not that big a deal it's it's

00:12:36 ◼   ► it is more for the people who are super intense

00:12:38 ◼   ► about it like we are for now

00:12:40 ◼   ► but it's an interesting question of like

00:12:42 ◼   ► if they could do anything would they still

00:12:44 ◼   ► choose to do it the way they're doing it now and

00:12:46 ◼   ► you know I think I think some stuff

00:12:48 ◼   ► they would probably choose to do differently but

00:12:50 ◼   ► you work with what you've got like they

00:12:52 ◼   ► and you do prioritize the most important

00:12:54 ◼   ► products yeah

00:12:56 ◼   ► well let's just get let's just say

00:12:58 ◼   ► the most important thing on the agenda is to

00:13:00 ◼   ► congratulate the Los Angeles Dodgers

00:13:02 ◼   ► hmm

00:13:04 ◼   ► so actually you know

00:13:06 ◼   ► okay so you and I have a friend who's a big Dodger fan

00:13:08 ◼   ► Greg Noss

00:13:10 ◼   ► poor guy I feel like

00:13:12 ◼   ► felt like he was gonna die

00:13:14 ◼   ► and the Dodgers have let's just sorry for the

00:13:16 ◼   ► sports talk everybody but the Dodgers let's just say

00:13:18 ◼   ► probably have the best team in baseball for like

00:13:20 ◼   ► five years now and they always lose in the playoffs

00:13:22 ◼   ► and as a Giants fan I

00:13:24 ◼   ► take great delight in the failure of

00:13:26 ◼   ► the Los Angeles Dodgers because they're our

00:13:28 ◼   ► rival right and yet I also

00:13:30 ◼   ► feel really bad for their fans and for people

00:13:32 ◼   ► like our friend Greg

00:13:34 ◼   ► and

00:13:36 ◼   ► you know the moment for me because there are

00:13:38 ◼   ► 30 baseball teams right so the moment

00:13:40 ◼   ► when it was 30 years since the Dodgers had

00:13:42 ◼   ► won a World Series I kind of said to myself

00:13:44 ◼   ► okay like

00:13:46 ◼   ► because that's when you're not getting your do

00:13:48 ◼   ► right

00:13:50 ◼   ► yeah like literally it's been 30 years

00:13:52 ◼   ► if you if you went one at a time

00:13:54 ◼   ► it would be your turn now

00:13:56 ◼   ► after 30 to get one again

00:13:58 ◼   ► and you've had you've

00:14:00 ◼   ► won the division eight years in a row and all that stuff

00:14:02 ◼   ► so on that level

00:14:04 ◼   ► I'm okay with it I feel like they were

00:14:06 ◼   ► a great team Mookie Betts is an amazing

00:14:08 ◼   ► player they're if they weren't the

00:14:10 ◼   ► Dodgers I would be they were so

00:14:12 ◼   ► fun to watch the Rays were fun to watch too

00:14:14 ◼   ► I thought a great World

00:14:16 ◼   ► Series after such a weird season I

00:14:18 ◼   ► thought it was an entertaining postseason

00:14:20 ◼   ► loved it the Dodgers are never gonna be my

00:14:22 ◼   ► favorite and that's an understatement but

00:14:24 ◼   ► I thought it was fine and then also in the back of

00:14:26 ◼   ► my mind is just a jerk who loves the Giants

00:14:28 ◼   ► I am amused by the fact

00:14:30 ◼   ► that the year the Dodgers finally won it all

00:14:32 ◼   ► their fans didn't get to go

00:14:34 ◼   ► a single game at Dodger Stadium and there's no

00:14:36 ◼   ► parade and there's no parade

00:14:38 ◼   ► yeah well 2020 right as a Giants

00:14:40 ◼   ► fan you're like see there it is 2020

00:14:42 ◼   ► something else bad happened but I'm

00:14:44 ◼   ► happy for my friends who are the long suffering

00:14:46 ◼   ► like look as a fan of the San Francisco Giants

00:14:48 ◼   ► the Giants until 2010

00:14:50 ◼   ► had never won a World

00:14:52 ◼   ► Series in San Francisco and it had been more than

00:14:54 ◼   ► 50 years so I

00:14:56 ◼   ► I feel the pain of somebody who has

00:14:58 ◼   ► for most or all of their life never seen

00:15:00 ◼   ► their team win anything and

00:15:02 ◼   ► so I'm happy for them even

00:15:04 ◼   ► though I you know I was pulling for the

00:15:06 ◼   ► Rays because you know not only

00:15:08 ◼   ► do they have a pitcher named Snell but they're

00:15:10 ◼   ► not the Dodgers but it's it's okay

00:15:12 ◼   ► I'm happy for Greg and all the other Dodger

00:15:14 ◼   ► fans out there we were texting about

00:15:16 ◼   ► Blake Snell who is the

00:15:18 ◼   ► yeah the biggest Snell

00:15:20 ◼   ► award-winning starting pitcher for the Tampa

00:15:22 ◼   ► Bay Rays and the

00:15:24 ◼   ► closest equivalent I have was a

00:15:26 ◼   ► star third baseman for the Toronto

00:15:28 ◼   ► Blue Jays while we were growing up and

00:15:30 ◼   ► Kelly Gruber Kelly Gruber who was also

00:15:32 ◼   ► also one of only two

00:15:34 ◼   ► male Kellys

00:15:36 ◼   ► who I could think of because wasn't the guy in the

00:15:38 ◼   ► Bad News Bears named Kelly

00:15:40 ◼   ► yeah that's right yeah and I just

00:15:42 ◼   ► grew so I grew up thinking my

00:15:44 ◼   ► first thought was Kelly

00:15:46 ◼   ► that's a girl's name and then and

00:15:48 ◼   ► I associated with Kelly that's a

00:15:50 ◼   ► name somebody has to be a great baseball

00:15:52 ◼   ► player Kelly Gruber

00:15:54 ◼   ► sure but it always hurt me as

00:15:56 ◼   ► a Yankees fan that like that the best

00:15:58 ◼   ► Gruber to play baseball was on the division

00:16:00 ◼   ► rival Toronto Blue Jays right

00:16:02 ◼   ► so who do you think is so

00:16:04 ◼   ► so that I

00:16:06 ◼   ► I kid you because I know

00:16:08 ◼   ► how Giants and Dodgers fans feel

00:16:10 ◼   ► about each other that's the beauty it's like

00:16:12 ◼   ► you're never going to chew the Red Sox winning although

00:16:14 ◼   ► when they did win the first time you're like okay well

00:16:16 ◼   ► you know I'm happy for the fans maybe a little bit

00:16:18 ◼   ► but but they're the enemy and and and so you

00:16:20 ◼   ► cheer against them it's like reverse fandom

00:16:22 ◼   ► there well who do you think

00:16:24 ◼   ► who do you think this is my question who do you

00:16:26 ◼   ► think who do you think is a bigger rivalry

00:16:28 ◼   ► Dodgers Giants

00:16:30 ◼   ► or Yankees Red Sox

00:16:32 ◼   ► I think it's probably Yankees Red Sox

00:16:36 ◼   ► honestly and some of that is

00:16:38 ◼   ► is the

00:16:40 ◼   ► I think both fan bases

00:16:42 ◼   ► well there is a dynamic that's similar which

00:16:44 ◼   ► is that I think I think the Red Sox fans hate

00:16:46 ◼   ► the Yankees more than the Yankees hate the

00:16:48 ◼   ► Red Sox that's very true and I think the Giants

00:16:50 ◼   ► hate the Dodgers more than the Dodgers hate the Giants

00:16:52 ◼   ► honestly it's one of those things like

00:16:54 ◼   ► people in San Francisco you know

00:16:56 ◼   ► we chant beat LA and stuff like that right

00:16:58 ◼   ► I don't think LA cares right like whatever

00:17:00 ◼   ► there's no beat SF chant right it is

00:17:02 ◼   ► they're the bigger city they're the

00:17:04 ◼   ► bigger region that you know

00:17:06 ◼   ► and I think that there's that aspect of

00:17:08 ◼   ► it but they're both great rival I love rivalries

00:17:10 ◼   ► I try to explain them to other

00:17:12 ◼   ► people this is actually what I love about rivalries

00:17:14 ◼   ► is you try to explain it logically to somebody about

00:17:16 ◼   ► why do you hate them and there's no answer

00:17:18 ◼   ► like I can't explain why why

00:17:20 ◼   ► I'm a UC Berkeley a Cal

00:17:22 ◼   ► fan as well and it's like I hate Stanford

00:17:24 ◼   ► Stanford is one of the finest

00:17:26 ◼   ► educational institutions in the world

00:17:28 ◼   ► I hate them why do I hate them

00:17:30 ◼   ► I don't hate them for any reason other than

00:17:32 ◼   ► they're Stanford we're Cal

00:17:34 ◼   ► we hate them there's no logic

00:17:36 ◼   ► don't look for logic in it

00:17:38 ◼   ► it really

00:17:40 ◼   ► it really does seem preposterous

00:17:42 ◼   ► when you think of it as an institution

00:17:44 ◼   ► as a great institution

00:17:46 ◼   ► of higher learning you know curing

00:17:48 ◼   ► diseases and doing

00:17:50 ◼   ► great work in computer science

00:17:52 ◼   ► etc and so forth

00:17:54 ◼   ► I think I

00:17:56 ◼   ► was thinking about this when I knew you were going to be on the show

00:17:58 ◼   ► and my answer is I think that they're both

00:18:00 ◼   ► maximum rivalries there's like a

00:18:02 ◼   ► maximum amount of sports rivalry you

00:18:04 ◼   ► can have and I think that the perceived

00:18:06 ◼   ► differences are the differences

00:18:08 ◼   ► between the East Coast and

00:18:10 ◼   ► California the West Coast

00:18:12 ◼   ► and that Californians are just generally

00:18:14 ◼   ► nicer people and

00:18:16 ◼   ► so like the maximum

00:18:18 ◼   ► like when San Francisco fans

00:18:20 ◼   ► think they're being really mean to

00:18:22 ◼   ► the Dodgers

00:18:24 ◼   ► it's just as mean as we it's our meanness

00:18:26 ◼   ► style only goes up that far so we think

00:18:28 ◼   ► we've maxed it out for us. Boston

00:18:30 ◼   ► fans and the East Coast fans are

00:18:32 ◼   ► like what are you kidding me that's like a

00:18:34 ◼   ► that's like my kids softball game you know

00:18:36 ◼   ► that's fair

00:18:38 ◼   ► that's fair I love a good rivalry though I think I think it's

00:18:40 ◼   ► great and it seems mean and it's totally

00:18:42 ◼   ► illogical but I do think

00:18:44 ◼   ► having grown up in the midst of a couple of them

00:18:46 ◼   ► I think it adds a whole level of

00:18:48 ◼   ► kind of spice and delight and

00:18:50 ◼   ► when every and I know on the outside it

00:18:52 ◼   ► seems weird like I read about Cubs fans

00:18:54 ◼   ► and Cardinals fans and things like that and I'm like

00:18:56 ◼   ► I don't get it but I get it

00:18:58 ◼   ► like I don't see it because I find

00:19:00 ◼   ► those teams they're like okay they're teams but

00:19:02 ◼   ► if you're in it it's just a magical thing

00:19:04 ◼   ► you've got if sports

00:19:06 ◼   ► really is about tribalism

00:19:08 ◼   ► you gotta have a rival otherwise

00:19:10 ◼   ► you know that just

00:19:12 ◼   ► you gotta be fully tribal you have to have a rival

00:19:14 ◼   ► yeah that one the subtext for me

00:19:16 ◼   ► as a Yankee fan watching

00:19:18 ◼   ► the World Series

00:19:20 ◼   ► was

00:19:22 ◼   ► the delight in

00:19:24 ◼   ► the suffering of Red Sox

00:19:26 ◼   ► fans watching Mookie Betts

00:19:28 ◼   ► establish himself as

00:19:30 ◼   ► as clearly

00:19:32 ◼   ► the only to me I love Aaron

00:19:34 ◼   ► Judge I think Aaron Judge is great I wouldn't trade

00:19:36 ◼   ► him for anybody including

00:19:38 ◼   ► the two people I'm about to mention but to me

00:19:40 ◼   ► even a casual fan has to admit that

00:19:42 ◼   ► the argument for the best baseball player

00:19:44 ◼   ► in the game right now

00:19:46 ◼   ► is either Mike Trout or Mookie Betts and

00:19:48 ◼   ► there's really to me I

00:19:50 ◼   ► don't see how you could argue for anybody else

00:19:52 ◼   ► Did you read Joe Pysnanski at

00:19:54 ◼   ► the Athletic actually wrote an essay that

00:19:56 ◼   ► he said maybe Mookie Betts is a better player

00:19:58 ◼   ► the best player in baseball and not Mike Trout

00:20:00 ◼   ► and his point was let's

00:20:02 ◼   ► argue about it because it feels like we could have

00:20:04 ◼   ► an argument now and the tragedy of course

00:20:06 ◼   ► for the Red Sox is

00:20:08 ◼   ► that they knew how good he was

00:20:10 ◼   ► but apparently their team who is

00:20:12 ◼   ► owned by a billionaire who also owns like

00:20:14 ◼   ► a premier league soccer team and like

00:20:16 ◼   ► they just decided they didn't want to pay

00:20:18 ◼   ► him even though he's the best

00:20:20 ◼   ► player and young and could have been their

00:20:22 ◼   ► star for the next 10 years and so they just got

00:20:24 ◼   ► rid of him. It's amazing. It wasn't like they

00:20:26 ◼   ► underestimated him it wasn't like

00:20:28 ◼   ► oh he flourished after they traded him

00:20:30 ◼   ► it wasn't like

00:20:32 ◼   ► they just didn't have the money like

00:20:34 ◼   ► they just can't come up with the dough

00:20:36 ◼   ► they just didn't want to spend the

00:20:38 ◼   ► money. It's like Babe Ruth all over

00:20:40 ◼   ► again. They sold off Babe Ruth to

00:20:42 ◼   ► the Yankees because he was going to

00:20:44 ◼   ► cost too much money and they didn't want to pay him

00:20:46 ◼   ► and he was just

00:20:48 ◼   ► spectacularly good

00:20:50 ◼   ► in World Series

00:20:52 ◼   ► He was. He single-handedly

00:20:54 ◼   ► I think won a couple of games in the post

00:20:56 ◼   ► season with his defensive plays and

00:20:58 ◼   ► with his hitting and it was

00:21:00 ◼   ► delightful to watch even though he's a Dodger

00:21:02 ◼   ► because he brings such joy to the

00:21:04 ◼   ► field and yeah it's

00:21:06 ◼   ► got to be extra glee for a Yankee

00:21:08 ◼   ► fan to see that all happen because literally

00:21:10 ◼   ► I don't think the Dodgers

00:21:12 ◼   ► would have won the World Series without him

00:21:14 ◼   ► so thanks

00:21:16 ◼   ► Red Sox. Well and they

00:21:18 ◼   ► definitely would not have beaten the Braves. No way

00:21:20 ◼   ► there's no way they would have beaten the Braves

00:21:22 ◼   ► to get there so

00:21:24 ◼   ► thank you to the Red Sox for the

00:21:26 ◼   ► Dodgers World Series Championship

00:21:28 ◼   ► and for getting Mookie Betts into the

00:21:30 ◼   ► National League away from the

00:21:32 ◼   ► Yankees. Thank you so much

00:21:34 ◼   ► but I will say this before we move on

00:21:36 ◼   ► let me just say this

00:21:38 ◼   ► in the run-up to this election

00:21:40 ◼   ► which is coming out a few days after this

00:21:42 ◼   ► episode is going to drop

00:21:44 ◼   ► it has also occurred to me a point you just

00:21:46 ◼   ► made a few minutes ago that

00:21:48 ◼   ► we as human beings like

00:21:50 ◼   ► to have rivalries

00:21:52 ◼   ► and one of the reasons when

00:21:54 ◼   ► people who don't like sports say well I

00:21:56 ◼   ► like sports it's just a game and it's not

00:21:58 ◼   ► it is fun

00:22:00 ◼   ► to invest yourself and

00:22:02 ◼   ► to care about something where the

00:22:04 ◼   ► stakes ultimately are nothing

00:22:06 ◼   ► right there really

00:22:08 ◼   ► is you know

00:22:10 ◼   ► the fine people

00:22:12 ◼   ► the you know 12, 13, 14

00:22:14 ◼   ► how many fans there are down in Tampa who like

00:22:16 ◼   ► to watch the baseball team. They're

00:22:18 ◼   ► good people and they like baseball

00:22:20 ◼   ► you know dozens and dozens

00:22:22 ◼   ► of fans down there who like this team

00:22:24 ◼   ► I hear you and Paul Kefasas right down

00:22:26 ◼   ► there on a little reconnoiter and discovered

00:22:28 ◼   ► that there are at least 10 Rays fans

00:22:30 ◼   ► we got seats

00:22:32 ◼   ► it was hard to believe that we could get

00:22:34 ◼   ► seats to watch that fine

00:22:36 ◼   ► baseball team but they're all right their

00:22:38 ◼   ► hearts are broken you've had a great

00:22:40 ◼   ► season again it's a fine young team but

00:22:42 ◼   ► you know there's no real harm

00:22:44 ◼   ► came of it your team that a team you like

00:22:46 ◼   ► lost the game

00:22:48 ◼   ► and you know these rivalries you could say you know

00:22:50 ◼   ► you don't like the Dodgers and I could certainly

00:22:52 ◼   ► say I don't like the Red Sox

00:22:54 ◼   ► I don't like their ballpark I don't like the way

00:22:56 ◼   ► it smells I don't like the way it looks

00:22:58 ◼   ► I don't like the way that

00:23:00 ◼   ► the Dodger dogs aren't very good

00:23:02 ◼   ► you know right I don't like any of it

00:23:04 ◼   ► I

00:23:06 ◼   ► don't like their accent I don't like the way that

00:23:08 ◼   ► they talk up there I just don't like it

00:23:10 ◼   ► but it's in most cases I mean there are occasionally

00:23:12 ◼   ► examples of fan violence that happen and

00:23:14 ◼   ► those are stupid and they shouldn't happen but in general

00:23:16 ◼   ► it is the stakes

00:23:18 ◼   ► are almost nothing it's not life and death

00:23:20 ◼   ► it's not people's livelihood or whether

00:23:22 ◼   ► somebody can get married or

00:23:24 ◼   ► get health insurance or anything like

00:23:26 ◼   ► that right that that which is why

00:23:28 ◼   ► although there definitely is tribalism

00:23:30 ◼   ► in American politics which is I think where you're going

00:23:32 ◼   ► with this it feels like you know

00:23:34 ◼   ► but it's not we don't do it for

00:23:36 ◼   ► fun like it's there are actual stakes

00:23:38 ◼   ► and like the cliche says

00:23:40 ◼   ► elections matter right

00:23:42 ◼   ► well and that's my my

00:23:44 ◼   ► my sentiment to anybody who's listening to this episode

00:23:46 ◼   ► before Tuesday and you

00:23:48 ◼   ► if you're thinking about voting

00:23:50 ◼   ► vote it matters it really

00:23:52 ◼   ► does we in real life

00:23:54 ◼   ► which is what elections are about we

00:23:56 ◼   ► are all in this together in baseball

00:23:58 ◼   ► we're not all in this together you

00:24:00 ◼   ► know right the Dodgers somebody had to win

00:24:02 ◼   ► the World Series and 29 other

00:24:04 ◼   ► teams didn't in real

00:24:06 ◼   ► life we're all in it together and

00:24:08 ◼   ► and that's the thought I would like to encourage

00:24:10 ◼   ► everybody to have going forward

00:24:12 ◼   ► voting if you haven't

00:24:14 ◼   ► I bet most people listening actually have

00:24:16 ◼   ► voted which is a nice change

00:24:18 ◼   ► in this country but

00:24:20 ◼   ► anybody who's still listening and on the fences

00:24:22 ◼   ► whether their vote matters really does matter

00:24:24 ◼   ► it's the strangest thing

00:24:26 ◼   ► in the world that you

00:24:28 ◼   ► could be one of you know a couple

00:24:30 ◼   ► hundred million people here in the country and

00:24:32 ◼   ► your vote matters but it really does

00:24:34 ◼   ► does it's hard to hard to explain

00:24:36 ◼   ► but don't think it doesn't

00:24:38 ◼   ► that's that's my my election

00:24:40 ◼   ► message yep amen

00:24:42 ◼   ► all right let me take a break thank our first

00:24:44 ◼   ► sponsor a new sponsor

00:24:46 ◼   ► oh this is great I love new sponsors

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00:26:52 ◼   ► where

00:26:54 ◼   ► to start we got a lot to cover

00:26:56 ◼   ► I say we start with the Mac though

00:26:58 ◼   ► I can't wait I feel

00:27:00 ◼   ► like if I save the Mac till

00:27:02 ◼   ► the end is we're going to cut it short and

00:27:04 ◼   ► me and you how can we not

00:27:06 ◼   ► talk about the Mac sounds good

00:27:08 ◼   ► to me I mean I think this is one of the most

00:27:10 ◼   ► exciting moments

00:27:12 ◼   ► that the Mac has ever had

00:27:14 ◼   ► short term they just

00:27:16 ◼   ► reported their

00:27:18 ◼   ► Q4 financial year

00:27:20 ◼   ► 2020 but it's the July to September

00:27:22 ◼   ► quarter yesterday

00:27:24 ◼   ► and under

00:27:26 ◼   ► reported in all of this

00:27:28 ◼   ► to me not by

00:27:30 ◼   ► you you mentioned it

00:27:32 ◼   ► but by a lot of people is that

00:27:34 ◼   ► the Mac had its best

00:27:36 ◼   ► Q4 ever was it

00:27:38 ◼   ► the best quarter period ever

00:27:40 ◼   ► it was the best single

00:27:42 ◼   ► Mac quarter ever

00:27:44 ◼   ► and

00:27:46 ◼   ► not by a little by

00:27:48 ◼   ► more than a billion dollars

00:27:50 ◼   ► that is and if

00:27:52 ◼   ► you look back that

00:27:54 ◼   ► they're good quarters for the

00:27:56 ◼   ► Mac in recent years

00:27:58 ◼   ► have been like seven point one

00:28:00 ◼   ► seven point two billion dollars

00:28:02 ◼   ► yeah and this was over

00:28:04 ◼   ► nine nine nine billion

00:28:06 ◼   ► and it broke the record for the best Mac

00:28:08 ◼   ► quarter by one point six

00:28:10 ◼   ► so not even more than one right more than one

00:28:12 ◼   ► and a half billion it was

00:28:14 ◼   ► by far the best quarter

00:28:16 ◼   ► in thirty

00:28:18 ◼   ► odd years of the Mac and this

00:28:20 ◼   ► is the quarter

00:28:22 ◼   ► the one quarter

00:28:24 ◼   ► July

00:28:26 ◼   ► through September of 2020

00:28:28 ◼   ► that is after

00:28:30 ◼   ► the official announcement that they are

00:28:32 ◼   ► moving the entire product line from Intel

00:28:34 ◼   ► processors to their own quote unquote

00:28:36 ◼   ► Apple silicon chips

00:28:38 ◼   ► before the quarter

00:28:40 ◼   ► when we all believe and have every

00:28:42 ◼   ► reason to continue believing they will

00:28:44 ◼   ► initially start shipping

00:28:46 ◼   ► those Macs the one quarter

00:28:48 ◼   ► in history

00:28:50 ◼   ► between Intel

00:28:52 ◼   ► and Apple silicon

00:28:54 ◼   ► is the one where they sold

00:28:56 ◼   ► the most Macs ever which

00:28:58 ◼   ► for again for the people

00:29:00 ◼   ► listening to the talk show

00:29:02 ◼   ► is got to be a bit of a head scratcher

00:29:04 ◼   ► right because I bet a lot of people who are

00:29:06 ◼   ► listening to the show who have been thinking

00:29:08 ◼   ► I kind of need a new

00:29:10 ◼   ► whatever desktop and iMac

00:29:12 ◼   ► a MacBook of some sort

00:29:14 ◼   ► are probably thinking

00:29:16 ◼   ► I'll make do with what I have

00:29:18 ◼   ► and see what they come out with

00:29:20 ◼   ► and

00:29:22 ◼   ► in the meantime out in the real world

00:29:24 ◼   ► people bought way more

00:29:26 ◼   ► Macs than ever before to me

00:29:28 ◼   ► it's a testimony that as much

00:29:30 ◼   ► as we think oh well Apple is all about the

00:29:32 ◼   ► iPhone now the Mac

00:29:34 ◼   ► is stronger than ever and more

00:29:36 ◼   ► mainstream than ever

00:29:38 ◼   ► like that

00:29:40 ◼   ► I think that's true that's what I take away from it

00:29:42 ◼   ► is that there are people who

00:29:44 ◼   ► like you could say to them

00:29:46 ◼   ► it's a clearly a lot of people

00:29:48 ◼   ► more people than ever bought a Mac in the last three

00:29:50 ◼   ► months and you could say to them

00:29:52 ◼   ► well wait a minute didn't you hear

00:29:54 ◼   ► that they're moving from Intel's

00:29:56 ◼   ► architecture of x86

00:29:58 ◼   ► to custom Apple Silicon you might as

00:30:00 ◼   ► well just say to them didn't you hear that they're

00:30:02 ◼   ► going to flim flam the flabber chatter

00:30:04 ◼   ► and it's going to go to 26 gigawatts

00:30:06 ◼   ► or you know

00:30:08 ◼   ► you just make up terms and they'll be like

00:30:10 ◼   ► yeah but I need a laptop now

00:30:12 ◼   ► right?

00:30:14 ◼   ► that's because I think that's what is driving

00:30:16 ◼   ► some of this although to be fair

00:30:18 ◼   ► a lot of the analysts say to

00:30:20 ◼   ► say to Tim Cook in these calls

00:30:22 ◼   ► every quarter

00:30:24 ◼   ► are you just selling Macs that you would have sold

00:30:26 ◼   ► over the next year because of COVID and

00:30:28 ◼   ► then your Mac sales are going to crash and

00:30:30 ◼   ► what they said this time is we still think it'll

00:30:32 ◼   ► be a double digit growth year again

00:30:34 ◼   ► or double digit growth quarter again

00:30:36 ◼   ► next quarter during the holiday quarter so

00:30:38 ◼   ► they're saying no they actually think that

00:30:40 ◼   ► the Mac is going to continue

00:30:42 ◼   ► showing growth

00:30:44 ◼   ► although I do think that some of it is

00:30:46 ◼   ► obviously

00:30:48 ◼   ► you're working at home

00:30:50 ◼   ► and you need to buy a new laptop or

00:30:52 ◼   ► your company puts

00:30:54 ◼   ► everybody at home and they're like okay we need to give

00:30:56 ◼   ► you guys new Macs because you don't have your laptops

00:30:58 ◼   ► are old and we're going to do that or it's

00:31:00 ◼   ► my kid is now going

00:31:02 ◼   ► to online school and we're going to buy them a new

00:31:04 ◼   ► Mac laptop and I think

00:31:06 ◼   ► also and not maybe as covered as widely

00:31:08 ◼   ► is we used to get by

00:31:10 ◼   ► with two laptops or a laptop

00:31:12 ◼   ► and a desktop in this house and now we have

00:31:14 ◼   ► four people here all of whom are

00:31:16 ◼   ► doing work or school all the time

00:31:18 ◼   ► and we can't share so

00:31:20 ◼   ► we have to buy I think all of those

00:31:22 ◼   ► scenarios are driving people

00:31:24 ◼   ► to say I need to

00:31:26 ◼   ► upgrade or add a

00:31:28 ◼   ► Mac to my life

00:31:30 ◼   ► and I think you know they don't

00:31:32 ◼   ► break I don't think they don't break

00:31:34 ◼   ► it out by units anymore right they just do

00:31:36 ◼   ► they don't they just just cash

00:31:38 ◼   ► right now so we and they you know remember

00:31:40 ◼   ► the oh so sweet in the old days they

00:31:42 ◼   ► would even tell you desktop versus

00:31:44 ◼   ► notebook oh yeah I was just looking

00:31:46 ◼   ► at for my for my historical

00:31:48 ◼   ► project that maybe we'll talk about a little bit

00:31:50 ◼   ► I was I was looking at the

00:31:52 ◼   ► an early 2000s keynote

00:31:54 ◼   ► and they mentioned that 75%

00:31:56 ◼   ► of their sales were desktops and I just

00:31:58 ◼   ► raised an eyebrow because like within a

00:32:00 ◼   ► decade it was the it was 75%

00:32:02 ◼   ► laptops right that flipped

00:32:04 ◼   ► so fast but in the early 2000s

00:32:06 ◼   ► they really did sell

00:32:08 ◼   ► far more desktops than

00:32:10 ◼   ► laptops I think you're right that there are

00:32:12 ◼   ► a whole multitude of reasons related

00:32:14 ◼   ► to the current quarantine

00:32:16 ◼   ► extended situation that could drive

00:32:18 ◼   ► people to buy Mac hardware

00:32:20 ◼   ► but I think part of it too

00:32:22 ◼   ► that's driving revenue up specifically

00:32:24 ◼   ► is in the I

00:32:26 ◼   ► can't help but think in the professional market there's a lot

00:32:28 ◼   ► of people who are recreating professional

00:32:30 ◼   ► setups that some of them

00:32:32 ◼   ► are higher margin systems even people

00:32:34 ◼   ► who therefore are

00:32:36 ◼   ► juiced in and know

00:32:38 ◼   ► hey this Apple Silicon thing's happening

00:32:40 ◼   ► in theory I might wait but

00:32:42 ◼   ► I'm usually working at home I'm

00:32:44 ◼   ► doing video or I'm doing audio

00:32:46 ◼   ► stuff and I'm really you know our development

00:32:48 ◼   ► something that really you really need

00:32:50 ◼   ► the best computer you can get

00:32:52 ◼   ► and it really saves you time and money to have

00:32:54 ◼   ► a truly professional workstation in

00:32:56 ◼   ► front of you there

00:32:58 ◼   ► people are recreating those

00:33:00 ◼   ► at home or just separate

00:33:02 ◼   ► and just in new places and so I think

00:33:04 ◼   ► it's driving a high margin stuff you know

00:33:06 ◼   ► which you might think would be like

00:33:08 ◼   ► the one end that would

00:33:10 ◼   ► suffer the most in the

00:33:12 ◼   ► Osborn effect

00:33:14 ◼   ► you know period between

00:33:16 ◼   ► WWDC and the actual shipping of

00:33:18 ◼   ► Apple Silicon I think even there

00:33:20 ◼   ► the quarantine situation is driving people

00:33:22 ◼   ► to say look I need a

00:33:24 ◼   ► Pro or

00:33:26 ◼   ► iMac right now

00:33:28 ◼   ► Yeah and I'm not

00:33:30 ◼   ► like I'm really bullish on Apple Silicon

00:33:32 ◼   ► but the fact is it's going to be

00:33:34 ◼   ► completely new and I think that even

00:33:36 ◼   ► among people who know

00:33:38 ◼   ► that it's coming

00:33:40 ◼   ► it's not 100%

00:33:42 ◼   ► clear that what you

00:33:44 ◼   ► want to do is wait and buy one right

00:33:46 ◼   ► there's certainly a strong argument that what you

00:33:48 ◼   ► want to do if you need a computer right now

00:33:50 ◼   ► is to buy the last Intel

00:33:52 ◼   ► Mac and then let Apple

00:33:54 ◼   ► Silicon shake out

00:33:56 ◼   ► and so the next time you need a Mac

00:33:58 ◼   ► it'll all be fine but

00:34:00 ◼   ► right now you've got tried and true Intel

00:34:02 ◼   ► Mac technology like

00:34:04 ◼   ► I think it's arguable either way

00:34:06 ◼   ► but certainly it's not the case that everybody who knows

00:34:08 ◼   ► that Apple Silicon is coming

00:34:10 ◼   ► is waiting for it

00:34:12 ◼   ► Yeah I think so

00:34:14 ◼   ► and it's just what an exciting time

00:34:16 ◼   ► but it also shows that

00:34:18 ◼   ► Apple is making this transition

00:34:20 ◼   ► from a position of strength

00:34:22 ◼   ► and what a contrast with

00:34:24 ◼   ► the PowerPC to Intel transition

00:34:26 ◼   ► right where it's not that the

00:34:28 ◼   ► 2005

00:34:30 ◼   ► PowerPC Macs were

00:34:32 ◼   ► horrible right or

00:34:34 ◼   ► decrepit or just

00:34:36 ◼   ► you know to go back

00:34:38 ◼   ► to the Steve Jobs

00:34:40 ◼   ► even mentioned it even though it wasn't a hardware

00:34:42 ◼   ► transition it was a software transition when he announced

00:34:44 ◼   ► the Intel transition he said look we've been through

00:34:46 ◼   ► a few major transitions and the one was

00:34:48 ◼   ► you know classic Mac OS 9 to

00:34:50 ◼   ► OS 10 there were serious

00:34:52 ◼   ► computer science level

00:34:54 ◼   ► operating system

00:34:56 ◼   ► technical shortcomings

00:34:58 ◼   ► with the classic Mac OS

00:35:00 ◼   ► and not to belabor that point and do

00:35:02 ◼   ► a whole thing about it but there were some

00:35:04 ◼   ► really significant

00:35:06 ◼   ► problems there and it's not

00:35:08 ◼   ► just oh well just ship a new OS

00:35:10 ◼   ► you know because you needed all the third party

00:35:12 ◼   ► software to come along with it it was

00:35:14 ◼   ► complicated it took years you know

00:35:16 ◼   ► yeah PowerPC wasn't

00:35:18 ◼   ► quite in that bad of a shot space

00:35:20 ◼   ► where it looked like hey if they don't

00:35:22 ◼   ► do something because there were a lot of people I was

00:35:24 ◼   ► one as skeptic I'll admit I was wrong

00:35:26 ◼   ► you know I didn't think they were going to make the move I just

00:35:28 ◼   ► thought there were too many reasons that it would be too difficult

00:35:30 ◼   ► you know there

00:35:32 ◼   ► most people before that announcement weren't

00:35:34 ◼   ► thinking oh my god when is Apple going to move

00:35:36 ◼   ► it was like when are they

00:35:38 ◼   ► going to ship the G5

00:35:40 ◼   ► which yeah and when are they

00:35:42 ◼   ► going to ship a G5 laptop which never happened

00:35:44 ◼   ► right right that's I guess that's what I meant

00:35:46 ◼   ► when they get it was the three the three gigahertz

00:35:48 ◼   ► G5 which was promised

00:35:50 ◼   ► and never delivered and the G5 laptop

00:35:52 ◼   ► and what was happening behind the scenes

00:35:54 ◼   ► is IBM

00:35:56 ◼   ► couldn't deliver and

00:35:58 ◼   ► at some point

00:36:00 ◼   ► Apple and Steve Jobs basically said

00:36:02 ◼   ► we gotta we gotta flip the switch we gotta

00:36:04 ◼   ► get away from these guys because they're not you

00:36:06 ◼   ► know our life depends on them

00:36:08 ◼   ► and they're not focused on it

00:36:10 ◼   ► it's not their their life doesn't

00:36:12 ◼   ► and we gotta go to Intel

00:36:14 ◼   ► yeah so but it was it was

00:36:16 ◼   ► a moment of desperation it was like we gotta throw in

00:36:18 ◼   ► with the other guys because otherwise we're gonna be left

00:36:20 ◼   ► behind and it

00:36:22 ◼   ► was it was not a power move right it was

00:36:24 ◼   ► it was a power move only in the sense

00:36:26 ◼   ► that they had the

00:36:28 ◼   ► ability to walk away from

00:36:30 ◼   ► a vendor that in

00:36:32 ◼   ► IBM that was not pleasing them but

00:36:34 ◼   ► they were walking into the arms of

00:36:36 ◼   ► literally the supplier of every

00:36:38 ◼   ► other computer's processors

00:36:40 ◼   ► yeah so the risks that they were

00:36:42 ◼   ► taking were like we had

00:36:44 ◼   ► we had you know and there has been a

00:36:46 ◼   ► quote unquote hackintosh market

00:36:48 ◼   ► you know people have been able to get Mac OS 10

00:36:50 ◼   ► running on you know non-Apple hardware

00:36:52 ◼   ► it never turned into a significant

00:36:54 ◼   ► problem for the company nobody in

00:36:56 ◼   ► in the entire run of the Intel

00:36:58 ◼   ► Macs it's never been hey Apple

00:37:00 ◼   ► really screwed this up because people are just

00:37:02 ◼   ► robbing the company blind by buying

00:37:04 ◼   ► non-Apple computers and

00:37:06 ◼   ► running Mac OS 10 quote unquote

00:37:08 ◼   ► for free on them that

00:37:10 ◼   ► never really happened

00:37:12 ◼   ► but those were the sort of thoughts we had

00:37:14 ◼   ► as well what are the risks you know and

00:37:16 ◼   ► there were risks you know like well what if

00:37:18 ◼   ► developers never put their software over

00:37:20 ◼   ► but Apple did such a good job with

00:37:22 ◼   ► their developer tools that it really wasn't a

00:37:24 ◼   ► rough transition software wise

00:37:26 ◼   ► you know most stuff you know

00:37:28 ◼   ► shipped Intel

00:37:30 ◼   ► native pretty soon and PowerPC

00:37:32 ◼   ► stuff ran in emulation for enough

00:37:34 ◼   ► years

00:37:36 ◼   ► whereas this transition seems

00:37:38 ◼   ► a little bit riskier in terms of

00:37:40 ◼   ► they've got to bring it with

00:37:42 ◼   ► Apple silicon because Intel

00:37:44 ◼   ► Macs literally have never been more popular

00:37:46 ◼   ► that is not

00:37:48 ◼   ► that is not a hyperbole right that's the

00:37:50 ◼   ► whole point of what these quarterly results

00:37:52 ◼   ► are like I find that so

00:37:54 ◼   ► mind-boggling that Intel

00:37:56 ◼   ► Macs have never been more popular

00:37:58 ◼   ► and now is when they're

00:38:00 ◼   ► like well we're done with them

00:38:02 ◼   ► yeah it's echoes

00:38:04 ◼   ► of the getting rid of the iPod mini and

00:38:06 ◼   ► replacing with the iPod nano when it was their most

00:38:08 ◼   ► popular product and they killed it to replace it with

00:38:10 ◼   ► something else but I think

00:38:12 ◼   ► when we talk about Apple silicon you know

00:38:14 ◼   ► I have people ask me what

00:38:16 ◼   ► do you think like is it

00:38:18 ◼   ► going to be better or is it going to be shaky

00:38:20 ◼   ► and my response is always

00:38:22 ◼   ► Apple completely

00:38:24 ◼   ► controls when they make the move

00:38:26 ◼   ► completely

00:38:28 ◼   ► they choose the moment to switch to Apple

00:38:30 ◼   ► silicon and it's their

00:38:32 ◼   ► pride on the line not just the quality

00:38:34 ◼   ► of the Mac but the quality of

00:38:36 ◼   ► their processing

00:38:38 ◼   ► power their processor system that

00:38:40 ◼   ► they are so proud of they

00:38:42 ◼   ► wouldn't make the move

00:38:44 ◼   ► if it was going to be disappointing they're

00:38:46 ◼   ► making it because they know it's going to blow people

00:38:48 ◼   ► away they really do because and I know

00:38:50 ◼   ► that if you can roll your eyes at that and be like oh well

00:38:52 ◼   ► you know whatever we'll see what it is but

00:38:54 ◼   ► if you're Apple and you're not

00:38:56 ◼   ► going to impress people why would you

00:38:58 ◼   ► do it right you just wait right wait until

00:39:00 ◼   ► you can impress people but what we've seen

00:39:02 ◼   ► on the on the smartphone side is Apple

00:39:04 ◼   ► is

00:39:06 ◼   ► more than a year ahead of Qualcomm

00:39:08 ◼   ► essentially that when the new A14

00:39:10 ◼   ► comes out the A13 is still

00:39:12 ◼   ► the fastest smartphone chip until the moment the

00:39:14 ◼   ► A14 comes out that they've lapped the field

00:39:16 ◼   ► basically

00:39:18 ◼   ► and so they think they can do

00:39:20 ◼   ► the same thing with Apple silicon

00:39:22 ◼   ► and again if

00:39:24 ◼   ► it was going to be lackluster they wouldn't do it

00:39:26 ◼   ► because it would make them look bad

00:39:28 ◼   ► like they're doing it because they know

00:39:30 ◼   ► exactly how

00:39:32 ◼   ► impressive it's going to be compared to

00:39:34 ◼   ► the existing Intel processors

00:39:36 ◼   ► I really agree

00:39:40 ◼   ► with it I need to write this for Daring Fireball

00:39:42 ◼   ► because and I know

00:39:44 ◼   ► there's so many people who seem to be under the

00:39:46 ◼   ► impression that like the first

00:39:48 ◼   ► Apple silicon Mac is going

00:39:50 ◼   ► definitely they think going to be

00:39:52 ◼   ► like a return of the 12 inch MacBook

00:39:54 ◼   ► very small

00:39:56 ◼   ► think you know like an iPad

00:39:58 ◼   ► super I guess sliver of a computer

00:40:00 ◼   ► a little 12 inch laptop

00:40:02 ◼   ► right when it'll have the A14X

00:40:04 ◼   ► or the A14M for

00:40:06 ◼   ► Mac or something like that and

00:40:08 ◼   ► that'll be it and who knows

00:40:10 ◼   ► when we'll see the next it's like

00:40:12 ◼   ► the it's just like dot dot dot or

00:40:14 ◼   ► yada yada yada well who knows

00:40:16 ◼   ► when we'll see the rest of the lineup

00:40:18 ◼   ► and I think that's

00:40:20 ◼   ► it's that's just way too obvious you're not

00:40:22 ◼   ► thinking big enough and I

00:40:24 ◼   ► keep thinking back to the

00:40:26 ◼   ► WWDC announcement of this

00:40:28 ◼   ► when they cut to Johnny Serugy down

00:40:30 ◼   ► in this quote unquote secret lab

00:40:32 ◼   ► which

00:40:34 ◼   ► I think might have actually been

00:40:36 ◼   ► like you know like when they shoot in those places

00:40:38 ◼   ► those are like real rooms and I know they

00:40:40 ◼   ► set dress them and

00:40:42 ◼   ► and people I think waste their

00:40:44 ◼   ► time looking for like unannounced

00:40:46 ◼   ► hardware sitting in there like

00:40:48 ◼   ► like yeah it's a set

00:40:50 ◼   ► they don't just show up with a camera

00:40:52 ◼   ► and just happen to shoot whatever's

00:40:54 ◼   ► in these labs but they

00:40:56 ◼   ► they are like I think where they

00:40:58 ◼   ► actually shoot you know where they actually do some of

00:41:00 ◼   ► this work in in Apple Park right I think

00:41:02 ◼   ► so they're you're right they're set dressed but

00:41:04 ◼   ► but real and and they are

00:41:06 ◼   ► probably in Apple Park although they might not be

00:41:08 ◼   ► but well Serugy's team

00:41:10 ◼   ► isn't is in Apple Park

00:41:12 ◼   ► I think Apple Park is that whole campus but

00:41:14 ◼   ► Serugy's team famously has like

00:41:16 ◼   ► their whole big secret building

00:41:18 ◼   ► off to the side they're outside the ring

00:41:20 ◼   ► interesting I don't know if

00:41:22 ◼   ► that's where they shot that segment but

00:41:24 ◼   ► that whole chip team is sort of off to

00:41:26 ◼   ► the side but

00:41:28 ◼   ► if you just listen to Serugy's

00:41:30 ◼   ► segment he

00:41:32 ◼   ► he you know it it's

00:41:34 ◼   ► very appley where they want

00:41:36 ◼   ► to pre-announce this they're

00:41:38 ◼   ► they want to you know we got to tell developers

00:41:40 ◼   ► we got to have you know we're going to ship

00:41:42 ◼   ► you know this developer

00:41:44 ◼   ► kit hardware we want to get

00:41:46 ◼   ► native stuff

00:41:48 ◼   ► on day one so we can have

00:41:50 ◼   ► native software even though we're going to have emulation

00:41:52 ◼   ► to keep stuff working for compatibility

00:41:54 ◼   ► that's not the point of this

00:41:56 ◼   ► but we don't want to spill all the secrets

00:41:58 ◼   ► right and so how do you how do you

00:42:00 ◼   ► navigate that but would

00:42:02 ◼   ► when you listen to what Serugy said

00:42:04 ◼   ► he he talked about

00:42:06 ◼   ► the and I think

00:42:08 ◼   ► that the similarities between

00:42:10 ◼   ► iPad and iPhone

00:42:12 ◼   ► over the years all the whole era

00:42:14 ◼   ► of iPad has been taking

00:42:16 ◼   ► even though iPad had the

00:42:18 ◼   ► some stuff first you know had LTE

00:42:20 ◼   ► first and had

00:42:22 ◼   ► I think the first Apple silicon with the number

00:42:24 ◼   ► was in an iPad I think like

00:42:26 ◼   ► the A4 or whatever

00:42:28 ◼   ► I don't know maybe I don't know but it's

00:42:30 ◼   ► you know it's not like the iPad always

00:42:32 ◼   ► comes second but

00:42:34 ◼   ► and again like you said earlier the iPad

00:42:36 ◼   ► Air got announced with the A14

00:42:38 ◼   ► first even if you know it shipped

00:42:40 ◼   ► at the same time but

00:42:42 ◼   ► but you know they tend to

00:42:44 ◼   ► even with the iPad Pros they just take

00:42:46 ◼   ► the A11

00:42:48 ◼   ► add an X and the

00:42:50 ◼   ► X represents additional like

00:42:52 ◼   ► GPU cores

00:42:54 ◼   ► yeah and processor cores right

00:42:56 ◼   ► processor cores and more graphics

00:42:58 ◼   ► horsepower but it's fundamentally

00:43:00 ◼   ► and like on single core benchmarks

00:43:02 ◼   ► like Geekbench it scores

00:43:04 ◼   ► exactly the same because it

00:43:06 ◼   ► really is the same chip

00:43:08 ◼   ► for single core processing

00:43:10 ◼   ► that's that's what they do with iPad

00:43:14 ◼   ► and it works great for iPad right it's not

00:43:16 ◼   ► like anybody's looking at iPads and

00:43:18 ◼   ► saying boy these iPads are slow right

00:43:20 ◼   ► nobody has ever said that right they've always

00:43:22 ◼   ► been like wow these are just feels really fast

00:43:24 ◼   ► but

00:43:26 ◼   ► when Srouchi talked about this he talked about

00:43:28 ◼   ► how they took their when they made

00:43:30 ◼   ► Apple Watch and they took everything they know

00:43:32 ◼   ► but they had to shrink it down

00:43:34 ◼   ► to fit in a tiny little thing on a wrist

00:43:36 ◼   ► right they didn't take the

00:43:38 ◼   ► A8 or whatever

00:43:40 ◼   ► A9 whatever year it was when the

00:43:42 ◼   ► first Apple Watch came out and make like

00:43:44 ◼   ► the A8

00:43:46 ◼   ► W chip and have a big

00:43:48 ◼   ► you know big by the watch

00:43:50 ◼   ► standards phone chip

00:43:52 ◼   ► running on your wrist they

00:43:54 ◼   ► made something altogether new

00:43:56 ◼   ► that could enable something to run

00:43:58 ◼   ► all day on your wrist

00:44:00 ◼   ► and then he just more or less says that's what

00:44:02 ◼   ► we're going to do for pro workstations

00:44:04 ◼   ► and it's like in other words to

00:44:06 ◼   ► me the implication is as much

00:44:08 ◼   ► smaller that the watch is than the phone

00:44:10 ◼   ► some of the stuff they're working on the

00:44:12 ◼   ► Mac is going to be that much bigger

00:44:14 ◼   ► than what they do with the phone

00:44:16 ◼   ► like to me that was like goosebumps

00:44:18 ◼   ► that was like yeah this is what I want man

00:44:20 ◼   ► I think

00:44:22 ◼   ► I think so you know we don't know

00:44:24 ◼   ► for sure there are rumors

00:44:26 ◼   ► that are conflicting about it

00:44:28 ◼   ► we know that they said it's a two year process so I

00:44:30 ◼   ► think that that means that all

00:44:32 ◼   ► Intel Macs everywhere are not going to be replaced

00:44:34 ◼   ► for two years it gives them

00:44:36 ◼   ► you know at most two years it gives them a little bit of a

00:44:38 ◼   ► time but I did a piece on six colors

00:44:40 ◼   ► where I basically tried to extrapolate

00:44:42 ◼   ► this is before the A14 came out so it's

00:44:44 ◼   ► actually I was a little conservative on the A14

00:44:46 ◼   ► so it's actually even more true I

00:44:48 ◼   ► think now but the idea that

00:44:50 ◼   ► how fast would

00:44:52 ◼   ► an A14X an iPad

00:44:54 ◼   ► class so like four performance

00:44:56 ◼   ► scores chip be

00:44:58 ◼   ► in terms of like Geekbench scores

00:45:00 ◼   ► multi-threaded multi-processing

00:45:02 ◼   ► score and the

00:45:04 ◼   ► answer is if you just took the

00:45:06 ◼   ► iPad chip you're developing and put it in

00:45:08 ◼   ► a MacBook a 12 inch MacBook or something

00:45:10 ◼   ► like that a consumer Mac

00:45:12 ◼   ► it would be faster than

00:45:14 ◼   ► the high-end MacBook Pro 16 inch

00:45:16 ◼   ► that was announced last year

00:45:18 ◼   ► and almost as fast as the 8 core

00:45:20 ◼   ► top of the line iMac

00:45:22 ◼   ► that was announced earlier this year that's

00:45:24 ◼   ► probably the last Intel iMac and that's

00:45:26 ◼   ► the iPad

00:45:28 ◼   ► and then if you do and I think

00:45:30 ◼   ► that this may be what they do is they've got

00:45:32 ◼   ► this A14X or whatever that is

00:45:34 ◼   ► that is something that they can put in iPads and they can put

00:45:36 ◼   ► in low-end Macs or maybe a

00:45:38 ◼   ► low-end Mac laptops MacBook Air

00:45:40 ◼   ► MacBook that kind of thing I

00:45:42 ◼   ► assume there's also a Mac

00:45:44 ◼   ► specific

00:45:46 ◼   ► processor that is more

00:45:48 ◼   ► powerful that has more cores

00:45:50 ◼   ► and is clocked up and has

00:45:52 ◼   ► more interesting things going on with graphics

00:45:54 ◼   ► and who knows what else that's made just

00:45:56 ◼   ► for the Mac and

00:45:58 ◼   ► I just threw into my little spreadsheet

00:46:00 ◼   ► again let's extrapolate that they add

00:46:02 ◼   ► on because the rumors are that

00:46:04 ◼   ► that there is a Mac chip and it's got

00:46:06 ◼   ► eight performance scores

00:46:08 ◼   ► and if that's true

00:46:10 ◼   ► then you just do the math and it's like you're now

00:46:12 ◼   ► in the zone where that Apple Silicon

00:46:14 ◼   ► Mac chip that's the pro Mac chip

00:46:16 ◼   ► is roughly

00:46:18 ◼   ► halfway in performance between the high-end

00:46:20 ◼   ► iMac and the high-end

00:46:22 ◼   ► 28 core Mac Pro it's

00:46:24 ◼   ► basically in Mac Pro territory

00:46:26 ◼   ► firmly in Mac Pro

00:46:28 ◼   ► territory and you could have that in a

00:46:30 ◼   ► MacBook Pro potentially. So

00:46:32 ◼   ► this is why I said earlier that

00:46:34 ◼   ► I'm bullish on Apple Silicon I think that

00:46:36 ◼   ► they are approaching this

00:46:38 ◼   ► from a position of confidence that they

00:46:40 ◼   ► know they can impress that if

00:46:42 ◼   ► you extrapolate the speeds

00:46:44 ◼   ► that they've got on the iPad and the iPhone

00:46:46 ◼   ► it's really clear that

00:46:48 ◼   ► they can build this stuff and have it be

00:46:50 ◼   ► way faster than any

00:46:52 ◼   ► comparable Intel Mac.

00:46:54 ◼   ► Yeah, it's

00:46:56 ◼   ► almost undeniable.

00:46:58 ◼   ► The other thing to keep in mind they've never shipped

00:47:00 ◼   ► a custom silicon

00:47:02 ◼   ► CPU chip

00:47:04 ◼   ► designed from the ground up

00:47:06 ◼   ► to be to not be

00:47:08 ◼   ► run off a battery.

00:47:10 ◼   ► Right? Everything they've ever

00:47:12 ◼   ► done is run off. Now there's Apple TV

00:47:14 ◼   ► which doesn't

00:47:16 ◼   ► have a battery but Apple

00:47:18 ◼   ► TV is a product that has just sort of

00:47:20 ◼   ► gotten well you could just take a

00:47:22 ◼   ► two-year-old A-series chip and we'll just put it in there

00:47:24 ◼   ► you know they don't design custom silicon

00:47:26 ◼   ► for Apple TV.

00:47:28 ◼   ► They've never had

00:47:30 ◼   ► a device that is

00:47:32 ◼   ► well you know

00:47:34 ◼   ► when the chip team is like well what what

00:47:36 ◼   ► are we working with and it's like

00:47:38 ◼   ► imagine that you've been on this team

00:47:40 ◼   ► for like over a decade

00:47:42 ◼   ► building these things where battery life

00:47:44 ◼   ► is if not the

00:47:46 ◼   ► biggest concern one of right

00:47:48 ◼   ► no discussion

00:47:50 ◼   ► no day goes by where you're not taking

00:47:52 ◼   ► into consideration battery

00:47:54 ◼   ► life and you say

00:47:56 ◼   ► oh no you're designing a device

00:47:58 ◼   ► that will always have power.

00:48:00 ◼   ► It's like glorious right and

00:48:02 ◼   ► sort of personal computing

00:48:04 ◼   ► the whole Intel architecture came

00:48:06 ◼   ► the other way right it came from

00:48:08 ◼   ► an era where laptops were

00:48:10 ◼   ► you know exotic and sort of

00:48:12 ◼   ► you know they were just desktops

00:48:14 ◼   ► running and we talk about

00:48:16 ◼   ► the Mac's history in that regard

00:48:18 ◼   ► where you could literally just they just

00:48:20 ◼   ► took a Mac and put it in a suitcase

00:48:22 ◼   ► you know. Yep.

00:48:24 ◼   ► It's a Mac portable now.

00:48:26 ◼   ► Enjoy. It is just a

00:48:28 ◼   ► terribly terribly exciting time to be

00:48:30 ◼   ► a Mac enthusiast because it's

00:48:32 ◼   ► the platform is thriving it is popular

00:48:34 ◼   ► it has clearly has the company's

00:48:36 ◼   ► interest and

00:48:38 ◼   ► it's another way to look at

00:48:40 ◼   ► it is in

00:48:42 ◼   ► terms of why do this now

00:48:44 ◼   ► if they were going

00:48:46 ◼   ► to take the easy road

00:48:48 ◼   ► the easy road obviously is just to

00:48:50 ◼   ► keep making Intel Macs they've never

00:48:52 ◼   ► been more popular and they don't have to do any

00:48:54 ◼   ► not that they don't have to do work I'm not saying

00:48:56 ◼   ► it's easy for the

00:48:58 ◼   ► computer engineers at Apple to make

00:49:00 ◼   ► the Macs they've been making for

00:49:02 ◼   ► 14-15 years with

00:49:04 ◼   ► Intel systems

00:49:06 ◼   ► but it's easier than

00:49:08 ◼   ► doing that plus designing

00:49:10 ◼   ► your own chips

00:49:12 ◼   ► right? It's

00:49:14 ◼   ► yeah there was that pivotal moment

00:49:16 ◼   ► and you along with some other

00:49:18 ◼   ► journalists got invited to talk to

00:49:20 ◼   ► Phil Schiller and some other people

00:49:22 ◼   ► about the future of the Mac and that was the

00:49:24 ◼   ► announcement that there was going to be a new Mac Pro and

00:49:26 ◼   ► that Apple was recommitting to Pro customers and

00:49:28 ◼   ► honestly up until that moment I felt like

00:49:30 ◼   ► that's exactly where Apple was that they had just

00:49:32 ◼   ► decided the Mac is a legacy platform and we

00:49:34 ◼   ► love it but we're just not going to put a lot of effort

00:49:36 ◼   ► into it it's going to be what it's going to be

00:49:38 ◼   ► it's not going to really change we'll use Intel's latest

00:49:40 ◼   ► processors we'll update it every year or two

00:49:42 ◼   ► and we'll just kind of let it motor on

00:49:44 ◼   ► and it would be fine and

00:49:46 ◼   ► at some point they said

00:49:48 ◼   ► no okay let's go the other way

00:49:50 ◼   ► with the Mac we're going to take the Mac and it's going to be

00:49:52 ◼   ► part of our strategy and that means the Mac

00:49:54 ◼   ► has to change and

00:49:56 ◼   ► that's going to ruffle some feathers of old school Mac

00:49:58 ◼   ► users but the Mac's going to change

00:50:00 ◼   ► and we're going to take it into the future

00:50:02 ◼   ► and we're going to use our processors and we're going to

00:50:04 ◼   ► run iOS apps on it and

00:50:06 ◼   ► it's going to be a very

00:50:08 ◼   ► different future for the Mac but the Mac

00:50:10 ◼   ► is going to be you know it's going to have

00:50:12 ◼   ► this opportunity to become far more than it

00:50:14 ◼   ► was and that's that moment

00:50:16 ◼   ► because it really was Apple

00:50:18 ◼   ► saying are we going to put effort into the Mac or

00:50:20 ◼   ► are we just going to write it off as a legacy technology

00:50:22 ◼   ► and everything we've seen since

00:50:24 ◼   ► then suggests that they have been slowly

00:50:26 ◼   ► grinding up, cranking up all the

00:50:28 ◼   ► years to do that and

00:50:30 ◼   ► the Apple Silicon announcement combined

00:50:32 ◼   ► with the fact that in that announcement

00:50:34 ◼   ► they said yeah you know

00:50:36 ◼   ► we're going to integrate iOS compatibility

00:50:38 ◼   ► in Apple Silicon

00:50:40 ◼   ► and Mac OS Big Sur like

00:50:42 ◼   ► that is you know

00:50:44 ◼   ► if they were just putting them on life support

00:50:46 ◼   ► none of that would have happened and it shows

00:50:48 ◼   ► that Apple now considers the

00:50:50 ◼   ► Mac I mean you could argue the

00:50:52 ◼   ► Mac is the center point

00:50:54 ◼   ► of Apple's product

00:50:56 ◼   ► lineup now or at least

00:50:58 ◼   ► will be shortly because it's going to

00:51:00 ◼   ► run all the software

00:51:02 ◼   ► on essentially all

00:51:04 ◼   ► of its major you know non-watch

00:51:06 ◼   ► non-Apple TV platforms

00:51:08 ◼   ► right and it becomes that iOS

00:51:10 ◼   ► is a subset of Mac instead of

00:51:12 ◼   ► being like the dominant platform

00:51:14 ◼   ► in the Mac is this weird thing on the side

00:51:16 ◼   ► and that is you know it took them

00:51:18 ◼   ► years to get there but I feel like there must

00:51:20 ◼   ► have been a moment internally where they decided

00:51:22 ◼   ► let's not treat the Mac

00:51:24 ◼   ► as a legacy platform and I'm

00:51:26 ◼   ► all in for that because I want the Mac to

00:51:28 ◼   ► grow and thrive and not just kind of calcify

00:51:30 ◼   ► and be a legacy

00:51:32 ◼   ► platform because that way lies death

00:51:34 ◼   ► you know eventually it might motor on

00:51:36 ◼   ► for a while when I started at

00:51:38 ◼   ► Mac user in the 90s there was still an

00:51:40 ◼   ► Apple 2 magazine that they put out upstairs

00:51:42 ◼   ► right like I mean it can do that for

00:51:44 ◼   ► a while but it's an end game

00:51:46 ◼   ► you know that it's just going to trail down and

00:51:48 ◼   ► and Apple decided not to do that with Mac

00:51:50 ◼   ► yeah and so it's terribly exciting

00:51:52 ◼   ► but what a

00:51:54 ◼   ► what a quarter ahead

00:51:56 ◼   ► yeah did you see

00:51:58 ◼   ► I don't even know what to make of this that

00:52:00 ◼   ► the Big Sur

00:52:02 ◼   ► 11 Mac OS 11

00:52:04 ◼   ► point 0.1

00:52:06 ◼   ► beta is already out

00:52:08 ◼   ► but

00:52:10 ◼   ► Mac OS 11.0 is not

00:52:12 ◼   ► out which the only

00:52:14 ◼   ► reasonable explanation for this

00:52:16 ◼   ► this is

00:52:18 ◼   ► not this might

00:52:20 ◼   ► just sound like oh they're just numbers you

00:52:22 ◼   ► stick on operating systems but to

00:52:24 ◼   ► developers this is meaningful right

00:52:26 ◼   ► like because now there's an operating system

00:52:28 ◼   ► that their software

00:52:30 ◼   ► might be needed expected

00:52:32 ◼   ► to work on that isn't out

00:52:34 ◼   ► it's it is not it is a

00:52:36 ◼   ► big deal it is a big WTF

00:52:38 ◼   ► for Mac developers where is

00:52:40 ◼   ► the final the golden master of

00:52:42 ◼   ► 11.0.0 right and

00:52:44 ◼   ► you know the best guess is

00:52:46 ◼   ► it's on a bunch of Apple silicon

00:52:48 ◼   ► Macs that haven't been announced yet

00:52:50 ◼   ► right that will presumably

00:52:52 ◼   ► update to 11.0.1

00:52:54 ◼   ► as soon as that comes out

00:52:56 ◼   ► perhaps the moment they get taken out of the box

00:52:58 ◼   ► who knows but that they needed to lock it

00:53:00 ◼   ► in order to write it to all the

00:53:02 ◼   ► drives in order to ship all of

00:53:04 ◼   ► those so that they can announce it and ship it

00:53:06 ◼   ► that's that's the best guess but you know the developers

00:53:08 ◼   ► would still like a golden master to

00:53:10 ◼   ► test against I suspect on their

00:53:12 ◼   ► developer kits at least

00:53:14 ◼   ► and a final version of Xcode

00:53:16 ◼   ► and all of those things too.

00:53:18 ◼   ► Apple, they are one

00:53:20 ◼   ► company and in a lot of ways

00:53:22 ◼   ► they've never been more unified

00:53:24 ◼   ► with hardware and software

00:53:26 ◼   ► you know working together

00:53:28 ◼   ► and teams working together and all of

00:53:30 ◼   ► that but it

00:53:32 ◼   ► exemplifies how software and hardware

00:53:34 ◼   ► are two very different things

00:53:36 ◼   ► and there's Apple the hardware company

00:53:38 ◼   ► that is keeping these

00:53:40 ◼   ► Apple silicon Macs under wrap

00:53:42 ◼   ► and wants to have a big splashy

00:53:44 ◼   ► debut and then

00:53:46 ◼   ► there's Apple the company making a

00:53:48 ◼   ► desktop professional workstation

00:53:50 ◼   ► operating system who's

00:53:52 ◼   ► doing something that makes absolutely

00:53:54 ◼   ► no sense from the software. No other

00:53:56 ◼   ► company in the world would

00:53:58 ◼   ► start distributing

00:54:00 ◼   ► developer betas of

00:54:02 ◼   ► a .1 update

00:54:04 ◼   ► to an operating system

00:54:06 ◼   ► that still hasn't been out

00:54:08 ◼   ► Yeah, let's throw in the mix

00:54:10 ◼   ► this is something that I only thought

00:54:12 ◼   ► about the other day

00:54:14 ◼   ► which is

00:54:16 ◼   ► because Big Sur on

00:54:18 ◼   ► Apple silicon will run iOS

00:54:20 ◼   ► apps, what that

00:54:22 ◼   ► means is we are now at the point

00:54:24 ◼   ► where shipping Mac OS requires

00:54:26 ◼   ► you to ship essentially a version of

00:54:28 ◼   ► iOS.

00:54:30 ◼   ► Right, they build together, they have to build together

00:54:32 ◼   ► because they have to run iOS apps

00:54:34 ◼   ► in Mac OS on Apple silicon which means

00:54:36 ◼   ► essentially Mac OS

00:54:38 ◼   ► is also not only are

00:54:40 ◼   ► Apple silicon Macs a superset

00:54:42 ◼   ► of iOS

00:54:44 ◼   ► but Mac OS is a superset

00:54:46 ◼   ► of iOS which means that

00:54:48 ◼   ► I think first off it means that it

00:54:50 ◼   ► will always have to ship

00:54:52 ◼   ► either perfectly in parallel or more likely

00:54:54 ◼   ► after iOS because

00:54:56 ◼   ► you've got to have a

00:54:58 ◼   ► stable thing and some compatibility

00:55:00 ◼   ► among apps and all of that but it does

00:55:02 ◼   ► add that extra layer of complexity and I wonder

00:55:04 ◼   ► if that factors in too right because

00:55:06 ◼   ► so then there's an iOS update you presumably

00:55:08 ◼   ► need to do a Mac OS update at that point

00:55:10 ◼   ► because you want to bring the whole platform

00:55:12 ◼   ► up it's just it's really

00:55:14 ◼   ► complicated and they're also shipping this hardware

00:55:16 ◼   ► that they're not yet announced

00:55:18 ◼   ► and is not yet actually shipping

00:55:20 ◼   ► and I don't envy them

00:55:22 ◼   ► it's a really high degree of

00:55:24 ◼   ► difficulty the stuff that they're working on

00:55:26 ◼   ► Right because there's you know effectively

00:55:28 ◼   ► there's a baseline level of iOS

00:55:30 ◼   ► it's not like

00:55:32 ◼   ► these apps are running

00:55:34 ◼   ► in emulation

00:55:36 ◼   ► in iOS on the Mac but

00:55:38 ◼   ► there's a you know

00:55:40 ◼   ► you got to draw the line. They're calling all of the

00:55:42 ◼   ► iOS API's though to run.

00:55:44 ◼   ► Yeah exactly there's got to be a line

00:55:46 ◼   ► you say and say these are the

00:55:48 ◼   ► API's that we're supporting and

00:55:50 ◼   ► when some of them are new

00:55:52 ◼   ► they have to ship

00:55:54 ◼   ► before

00:55:56 ◼   ► the Mac can come out. Yeah you turn on the app

00:55:58 ◼   ► store with Big Sur and try

00:56:00 ◼   ► on an Apple Silicon Mac and try to download

00:56:02 ◼   ► an app and it says sorry it's not

00:56:04 ◼   ► compatible with your version

00:56:06 ◼   ► of iOS and you're like wait a second I'm not running

00:56:08 ◼   ► iOS I'm running Mac OS and you said

00:56:10 ◼   ► I could download it so why can't I and like

00:56:12 ◼   ► they have to that's part of the

00:56:14 ◼   ► launch of Apple Silicon is that like

00:56:16 ◼   ► what's the app store experience like because

00:56:18 ◼   ► presumably some degree

00:56:20 ◼   ► of those apps are either opted in

00:56:22 ◼   ► or auto opted in or something

00:56:24 ◼   ► and you can see them and you can just run those

00:56:26 ◼   ► iOS apps and they need to run

00:56:28 ◼   ► they need to be presumably

00:56:30 ◼   ► on a one to one with what

00:56:32 ◼   ► the release version of iOS is in terms

00:56:34 ◼   ► of compatibility. Yeah so it has gotten

00:56:36 ◼   ► a lot more complicated

00:56:38 ◼   ► and they're all but exciting

00:56:40 ◼   ► right it's like I can't believe

00:56:42 ◼   ► you know if you had told me

00:56:44 ◼   ► five years ago that this was going to happen I would have said

00:56:46 ◼   ► pinch me like I don't believe you

00:56:48 ◼   ► we'll see how it goes right we'll see

00:56:50 ◼   ► what the there will be issues and it'll be complicated

00:56:52 ◼   ► and it'll be weird but like

00:56:54 ◼   ► I just wouldn't believe that

00:56:56 ◼   ► Apple would try something quite this

00:56:58 ◼   ► with that moment when they said it's going to run iOS apps

00:57:00 ◼   ► I'm like really really

00:57:02 ◼   ► it's like yeah they're going they're going all the way

00:57:04 ◼   ► Yeah well

00:57:06 ◼   ► we'll find out soon enough but

00:57:08 ◼   ► the last thing before we move on from the Mac

00:57:10 ◼   ► I do want to tell you what better time

00:57:12 ◼   ► to talk about it than now is your

00:57:14 ◼   ► 20 max

00:57:16 ◼   ► for 2020 podcast limited

00:57:18 ◼   ► run podcast I think is a fair way

00:57:20 ◼   ► to describe it it's

00:57:22 ◼   ► what would be the Netflix equivalent

00:57:24 ◼   ► limited series

00:57:26 ◼   ► I don't know it's a limited series it's a mini series

00:57:28 ◼   ► yeah sure

00:57:30 ◼   ► how would you what's the

00:57:32 ◼   ► description

00:57:34 ◼   ► it's been going on for months but

00:57:36 ◼   ► for people if they've missed it

00:57:38 ◼   ► yeah so

00:57:40 ◼   ► I decided to give myself a project for 2020

00:57:42 ◼   ► because

00:57:44 ◼   ► working for myself in my office

00:57:46 ◼   ► by myself I wanted to have some

00:57:48 ◼   ► structure and I thought well this would be a fun thing

00:57:50 ◼   ► why don't I make a top 20 list of

00:57:52 ◼   ► notable max and write essays

00:57:54 ◼   ► about each one and I'll roll it out over 20 weeks

00:57:56 ◼   ► and that'll be kind of a fun project and people

00:57:58 ◼   ► like Liszt and Joe Pysnanski who I mentioned

00:58:00 ◼   ► earlier the sports writer he did a baseball 100

00:58:02 ◼   ► about the 100 greatest players in baseball

00:58:04 ◼   ► history and I thought it was a fun idea and

00:58:06 ◼   ► also my friend Simon Jerry who

00:58:08 ◼   ► was the editor in chief at Macworld UK for a long time

00:58:10 ◼   ► had a series called Apple A to Z

00:58:12 ◼   ► where he wrote like you know

00:58:14 ◼   ► over 26 months in Macworld

00:58:16 ◼   ► UK he wrote his column was

00:58:18 ◼   ► from A to Z and

00:58:20 ◼   ► I thought this is a long term project that's

00:58:22 ◼   ► fun I picked top 20

00:58:24 ◼   ► max

00:58:26 ◼   ► because most of them I've either had or

00:58:28 ◼   ► covered and

00:58:30 ◼   ► in the expanse of

00:58:32 ◼   ► Apple history and honestly

00:58:34 ◼   ► if it had been 20 essays it would have been a

00:58:36 ◼   ► pretty easy project and I would

00:58:38 ◼   ► be done with it by now but at some point I said

00:58:40 ◼   ► to myself well

00:58:42 ◼   ► if I'm gonna do this shouldn't there be a video

00:58:44 ◼   ► and shouldn't there be a podcast

00:58:46 ◼   ► which

00:58:48 ◼   ► was my fail mistake

00:58:50 ◼   ► because the podcast especially

00:58:52 ◼   ► has been an awful lot of work because I ended up

00:58:54 ◼   ► the idea was that my

00:58:56 ◼   ► essays are my kind of just take

00:58:58 ◼   ► on this I made the list and then I explained

00:59:00 ◼   ► the list to you and I thought well a lot

00:59:02 ◼   ► of other people have opinions about

00:59:04 ◼   ► these systems and these

00:59:06 ◼   ► max through history and they're personal and

00:59:08 ◼   ► and also sort of analytical

00:59:10 ◼   ► about it and I know a lot of people

00:59:12 ◼   ► who have opinions about this why don't I talk

00:59:14 ◼   ► to them and do

00:59:16 ◼   ► a companion podcast that

00:59:18 ◼   ► sort of is not just my voice but

00:59:20 ◼   ► is their voices about

00:59:22 ◼   ► these systems that I've picked these notable

00:59:24 ◼   ► max and so that's

00:59:26 ◼   ► what it is and you have been one of the

00:59:28 ◼   ► participants in that I just edited one for next

00:59:30 ◼   ► week that has a whole

00:59:32 ◼   ► little like place where the podcast

00:59:34 ◼   ► stops because you have

00:59:36 ◼   ► a theory about why a particular product

00:59:38 ◼   ► failed and for about two

00:59:40 ◼   ► minutes it's like okay follow

00:59:42 ◼   ► me here and then it's John Gruber's

00:59:44 ◼   ► gonna tell you why this product failed and

00:59:46 ◼   ► it's just been a lot of fun to do and I've gotten a lot of

00:59:48 ◼   ► interesting people involved people

00:59:50 ◼   ► that you recognize from podcasts like

00:59:52 ◼   ► you and Stephen Hackett

00:59:54 ◼   ► and John Syracuse but also

00:59:56 ◼   ► some people I worked with

00:59:58 ◼   ► way back in the day like Shelley

01:00:00 ◼   ► Brisbane who I worked with at Mac user and Rick

01:00:02 ◼   ► LePage who was the editor at Mac week

01:00:04 ◼   ► and I along the way there were a couple

01:00:06 ◼   ► times where I didn't actually know the history and

01:00:08 ◼   ► talked to people who were involved

01:00:10 ◼   ► especially with a Mac clone era

01:00:12 ◼   ► because that was such a strange era

01:00:14 ◼   ► and it's been a fun project and I'm really

01:00:16 ◼   ► proud of the result it was a good creative challenge for

01:00:18 ◼   ► me to learn a totally different kind of podcast

01:00:20 ◼   ► it's not a conversational show

01:00:22 ◼   ► like this it really is like I did

01:00:24 ◼   ► interviews with all these people and I wrote a script and

01:00:26 ◼   ► I put it all together and you hear all

01:00:28 ◼   ► the different voices coming in and out and like

01:00:30 ◼   ► it's a whole I'm pretty proud of it and

01:00:32 ◼   ► it's so it's on relay FM

01:00:34 ◼   ► and they're releasing weekly

01:00:36 ◼   ► and it's been a lot of fun

01:00:38 ◼   ► it's been a lot of work but that's why it is a limited

01:00:40 ◼   ► series right is I know that there's a light

01:00:42 ◼   ► at the end of the tunnel but at the end of the year

01:00:44 ◼   ► the project is over

01:00:46 ◼   ► and that makes me happy too

01:00:48 ◼   ► because it's been a lot it's been a lot of

01:00:50 ◼   ► work again if I just stuck to essays

01:00:52 ◼   ► I would have been fine but I

01:00:54 ◼   ► raised the bar for myself a little bit

01:00:56 ◼   ► I love it I love

01:00:58 ◼   ► my participation in

01:01:00 ◼   ► it but I also

01:01:02 ◼   ► really love and

01:01:04 ◼   ► you know behind the scenes

01:01:06 ◼   ► a bit of it is you invited me very

01:01:08 ◼   ► kindly and very graciously and I'm

01:01:10 ◼   ► super happy to accept and so

01:01:12 ◼   ► you know I'd be heartbroken if you didn't

01:01:14 ◼   ► I really would I'd be so upset

01:01:16 ◼   ► I'd be so mad like if

01:01:18 ◼   ► you and I had had some falling out at some point

01:01:20 ◼   ► I'd be like I never should have never should have

01:01:22 ◼   ► pissed Jason Snow off because I would like to

01:01:24 ◼   ► be on this this series

01:01:26 ◼   ► really a thrill

01:01:28 ◼   ► to be part of it but

01:01:30 ◼   ► the part that's awesome is that

01:01:32 ◼   ► you're like look you made the list right there

01:01:34 ◼   ► was no voting you didn't you didn't like

01:01:36 ◼   ► send out polls this is Jason Snow's

01:01:38 ◼   ► list of 20 max and that it is what

01:01:40 ◼   ► it is and you're a you're a nicer guy

01:01:42 ◼   ► than I am in terms of how

01:01:44 ◼   ► you broke that to people but

01:01:46 ◼   ► but

01:01:48 ◼   ► but it's a good

01:01:50 ◼   ► I think that I think you did it exactly

01:01:52 ◼   ► right I think it's brilliantly conceived in

01:01:54 ◼   ► that way but then it's like

01:01:56 ◼   ► look here's here are my picks here are the

01:01:58 ◼   ► you know which ones would you like

01:02:00 ◼   ► to talk about which ones do you have strong opinions

01:02:02 ◼   ► about and there are some that

01:02:04 ◼   ► I have extremely strong opinions about

01:02:06 ◼   ► and there are some that I don't at all

01:02:08 ◼   ► and so it's not like I

01:02:10 ◼   ► had to make up stuff that I

01:02:12 ◼   ► don't have a strong opinion about but

01:02:14 ◼   ► I have found listening to those episodes

01:02:16 ◼   ► to be I love them I

01:02:18 ◼   ► love the ones that I was like

01:02:20 ◼   ► I don't care about the that

01:02:22 ◼   ► that Mac but now I'm listening to it

01:02:24 ◼   ► and I'm hearing stories and I'm like huh this is

01:02:26 ◼   ► great and I forget which one it was I

01:02:28 ◼   ► I wish I remember I remember where I was

01:02:30 ◼   ► in Philadelphia I was

01:02:32 ◼   ► right around literally

01:02:34 ◼   ► I just the way my mind works I remember I was right

01:02:36 ◼   ► around 18th and Sansom Street here in Philadelphia

01:02:38 ◼   ► and I'm listening to an

01:02:40 ◼   ► episode don't remember which Mac it was

01:02:42 ◼   ► and I was so upset I was like why didn't I

01:02:44 ◼   ► tell Jason I wanted to talk about this one these people

01:02:46 ◼   ► are all and then all of a sudden and here's John

01:02:48 ◼   ► Gruber and I'm like oh thank

01:02:50 ◼   ► God I did talk about this

01:02:52 ◼   ► and I made the exact point that I

01:02:54 ◼   ► wanted I was thinking and I

01:02:56 ◼   ► was like oh yeah yeah thank God I was there to

01:02:58 ◼   ► to make those

01:03:00 ◼   ► I had that same

01:03:02 ◼   ► location memory with

01:03:04 ◼   ► podcasts where I can remember very

01:03:06 ◼   ► specifically where I was if I was out walking

01:03:08 ◼   ► around when I heard a particular thing it's a weird

01:03:10 ◼   ► weird thing but I'm glad you like it

01:03:12 ◼   ► that is I think that is a perfect moment anybody

01:03:14 ◼   ► who's edited podcasts you have that moment where

01:03:16 ◼   ► you think oh I

01:03:18 ◼   ► would make this joke here or I would say this thing

01:03:20 ◼   ► here and then you listen back and you that's what

01:03:22 ◼   ► you did I'm like how do we get 10 minutes

01:03:24 ◼   ► into talking about this Mac and nobody has brought

01:03:26 ◼   ► up X Y and Z and then there I am and it's

01:03:28 ◼   ► like ah it's

01:03:30 ◼   ► just great I think people who listen to who enjoy

01:03:32 ◼   ► listening to us talk really if

01:03:34 ◼   ► you haven't been following you should jump on it

01:03:36 ◼   ► it is a great great thing

01:03:38 ◼   ► and the I can only

01:03:40 ◼   ► imagine how much work has gone into editing

01:03:42 ◼   ► this but it comes across so

01:03:44 ◼   ► tight and it's just

01:03:46 ◼   ► a delight to listen to

01:03:48 ◼   ► well thank you it's been a lot of fun to do

01:03:50 ◼   ► and a fun creative challenge I've been

01:03:52 ◼   ► using this app called Descript which

01:03:54 ◼   ► basically does

01:03:56 ◼   ► speech to text transcription

01:03:58 ◼   ► of all the audio files you give

01:04:00 ◼   ► it and then you can actually

01:04:02 ◼   ► edit your audio like a word

01:04:04 ◼   ► processor so I get

01:04:06 ◼   ► all of the Power

01:04:08 ◼   ► Mac G5 let's say

01:04:10 ◼   ► audio from every person I talk to

01:04:12 ◼   ► and I paste it all into one document

01:04:14 ◼   ► and then I kind of copy and paste and I move it around

01:04:16 ◼   ► and then write some stuff and

01:04:18 ◼   ► that's how those episodes get

01:04:20 ◼   ► edited which is

01:04:22 ◼   ► such a different

01:04:24 ◼   ► approach from normal podcast

01:04:26 ◼   ► editing but it is like

01:04:28 ◼   ► editing it's actually a lot like editing that report

01:04:30 ◼   ► card thing I do every year where I'm taking

01:04:32 ◼   ► downloads from people in emails and I'm

01:04:34 ◼   ► kind of getting the best bits and

01:04:36 ◼   ► organizing them together it's a very similar thing

01:04:38 ◼   ► except at the end you press a button and audio comes

01:04:40 ◼   ► out which is pretty amazing

01:04:42 ◼   ► there's a little more work you have to do but it's been fun

01:04:44 ◼   ► to do that and the funniest thing is

01:04:46 ◼   ► all of those interviews are separate right so you

01:04:48 ◼   ► riff on something and John

01:04:50 ◼   ► Siracusa riffs on something and James Thompson riffs

01:04:52 ◼   ► on something and then I'm

01:04:54 ◼   ► going through it and then like all of a sudden

01:04:56 ◼   ► you're all riffing on it together

01:04:58 ◼   ► because you all are talking about the same things

01:05:00 ◼   ► with slightly different perspectives and

01:05:02 ◼   ► sometimes those are really magical where it's

01:05:04 ◼   ► like you guys are finishing each

01:05:06 ◼   ► other's sentences it's

01:05:08 ◼   ► been a lot of fun to do so I'll

01:05:10 ◼   ► be happy when it's over because it's a lot of

01:05:12 ◼   ► work but I'm really enjoying the fact that we're

01:05:14 ◼   ► in the top 10 and we're counting down to number

01:05:16 ◼   ► one because the Macs just

01:05:18 ◼   ► get more interesting to me at least because I made the

01:05:20 ◼   ► list as we go. You started

01:05:22 ◼   ► this before Apple officially

01:05:24 ◼   ► said that Apple Silicon Macs

01:05:26 ◼   ► were coming right?

01:05:28 ◼   ► Yeah, I started this list

01:05:30 ◼   ► in December because I thought 2020 was

01:05:32 ◼   ► just going to be a perfectly normal year

01:05:34 ◼   ► and we've been

01:05:36 ◼   ► been speculating about this for

01:05:38 ◼   ► years both

01:05:40 ◼   ► you don't have to have any insiders

01:05:42 ◼   ► telling you that they're working

01:05:44 ◼   ► on it to just look

01:05:46 ◼   ► at the numbers and

01:05:48 ◼   ► think about Apple's desire for

01:05:50 ◼   ► controlling their own stuff to think that

01:05:52 ◼   ► Apple would be at

01:05:54 ◼   ► least looking at making its own silicon

01:05:56 ◼   ► but then there were rumors and

01:05:58 ◼   ► Mark Gurman in particular has had

01:06:00 ◼   ► some you know

01:06:02 ◼   ► it was on the pretty much on the nose

01:06:04 ◼   ► that this would be the year when they finally do it

01:06:06 ◼   ► but it wasn't

01:06:08 ◼   ► certain right? I mean I predicted

01:06:10 ◼   ► it at least I was at

01:06:12 ◼   ► least two years early I thought they would do it by

01:06:14 ◼   ► 2018. John I've been

01:06:16 ◼   ► predicting Apple Silicon Macs for like

01:06:18 ◼   ► three years in a row something like

01:06:20 ◼   ► that like I keep I do that at the end

01:06:22 ◼   ► of the year for Macworld I write these prediction pieces

01:06:24 ◼   ► are sort of like wish casting slash prediction

01:06:26 ◼   ► and every year I do one that's

01:06:28 ◼   ► like how did I do and for the last

01:06:30 ◼   ► two or three years it's been well no

01:06:32 ◼   ► no no Macs running

01:06:34 ◼   ► on ARM that still hasn't happened

01:06:36 ◼   ► so I guess this year maybe we'll get

01:06:38 ◼   ► it right. But you know