The Incomparable

00:00:01 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:06 ◼   ► the in comfortable number 282 january to [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► answer 16 [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► hello everybody welcome back to the [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► uncomfortable i'm your host Jason smell [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► i am joined by fine panel of people this [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► week we're going to talk about the [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► recently-concluded series 9 of Doctor [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► Who from the BBC you know I definitely [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► one of my favorites and so we talk about [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► a lot we don't do the flash cast on this [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► podcast feed me more because we do them [TS]

00:00:34 ◼   ► over at the TV podcast feed part of the [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► great and comfortable network that posts [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► like 2 pi guess today so many podcast [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► you can listen to the mall but anyway if [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► you like if you like our episode by [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► episode you can check that out but we [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► like to check in at the end of a doctor [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► who season and do an episode on the [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► incomparable about the season as a whole [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► and I've got a great panel to join me to [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► talk about that Glenn fleischmann you [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► you know you may remember him from the [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► four episodes he was on last year but [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► he's been in both of the episode so far [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► this year he's here Michael and by my [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► math that means I'll be a hundred so the [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► episodes 4 2016 you're on pace for 52 [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► episodes this year so keep it up [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► also on pace for 52 episodes this year [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► is David Laura hello hello stranger [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► you're a day and more and already well [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► not hard now [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► ok just a little competitive the trash [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► talk now and and trying to repeat erase [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► her raise her standing back to what it [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► was in 2014 Eric and also 242 hello [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► hello [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► yeah and i need to get my numbers back [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► up last year was embarrassing [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► I'm happy to have you here to talk [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► doctor who this is one of those things [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► where I now have so many friends who are [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► Doctor Who podcasters as well which is [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► great also hear our control group he's [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► never seen Doctor Who before wait a [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► second that's Babylon 5 it is serious [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► advancing from Radio Free Skaro hello hi [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► there I was actually hoping to get some [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► words in about Star Wars if you've got a [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► podcast series 9 starts with a two-part [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► up as a lot of two part or paired [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► episodes this season the Steven Moffat [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► written magician's apprentice and [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► witch's familiar in which the doctor [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► meets Davros as a child as a as an old [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► shriveled monster man and uh and missy [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► is there and there's a lot of the Clara [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► Missy interaction on earth where the [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► doctor isn't and then also on Skaro [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► where they are with [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► they end up so this this was our kickoff [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► and and i'm interested what everybody [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► father this uh I you know I as with all [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► these I did the episodes on the on the [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► TV podcast about them but it's different [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► to think about it sort of after awhile [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► vs after literally haven't seen it an [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► hour before the thing that strikes me [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► knowing the whole season artist i'm [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► surprised that this is the only time we [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► saw Missy this season but it this is not [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► kicking off other than the mention of [TS]

00:02:56 ◼   ► the confession dial the opening to [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► partner is not about the series wide [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► story arc it you know dhafra Davros [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► doesn't come back the Daleks don't [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► really come back Missy doesn't come back [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► it's just a two-parter about Davros and [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► the Daleks and missy and the doctor alka [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► and and Clara all kind of turned up [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► together which is kind of nice i kinda [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► anarkali and but of course it didn't it [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► didn't stop nerds from you know [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► extrapolating everything from that [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► opening to party because they've come to [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► expect it over the years to say whatever [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► is laid down in episode one is gonna [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► come back and episode 12 [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► there was even a I think when dealing [TS]

00:03:35 ◼   ► with Clarence because you know Claire [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► was leaving at the end of the series [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► everybody knew that and I think a whole [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► bunch of people were sort of thinking oh [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► perhaps or something to do with the [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► Dalek in this story and perhaps she's [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► actually dead in the Dalek and we'll [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► find out at the end of the series that [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► he's actually been dead the whole series [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► and but don't nothing nothing that can [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► pass he says to her I'm sorry I'm so [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► sorry and I was like oh that's a little [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► foreshadowing and then there's no payoff [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► I love the clear for the callback know [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► about when we've seen Jenna Coleman [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► inside the Dalek before right that was [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► that was that was kind of nice [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► interesting use of divers here I think [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► Julian bleach did a really good job is [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► Davros i'm not entirely sure i buy the [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► whole haha but I've double-crossed you [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► haha but I've double-crossed you kind of [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► thing that happens in the end but there [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► are a lot of really great kind of [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► johnston moments between them there are [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► interesting and the parallel between [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► those two and then and then missy kind [TS]

00:04:26 ◼   ► of using Clara as her anti companion i [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► thought that was all kind of very very [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► clever even while the plot was kinda [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► creaking along [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► yeah i like i like to very much the I I [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► was ok with the diverse you know you [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► know that the chess game the one up each [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► other even at the end [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► because it seems sort of fitting for [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► their given what they have gone through [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► those two characters over the last many [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► many years and and as far as if i was [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► glad that this didn't come back that we [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► didn't get more Daleks and moored [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► avarice at the end made that already [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► didn't ya and Lynn Lynn on Verity she [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► has like that which he refers to as like [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► the Steven Moffat rule any season that's [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► written by steven moffat she just she [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► refuses to really judge as a season [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► until it's completely done and she comes [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► back she's always withholding judgment [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► because he's always going to do [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► something that you don't expect probably [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► and and i think i love the fact that [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► this episode like Stephen said got all [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► the nerds you know getting their [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► conspiracy theories already it was none [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► of that probably the only little Davros [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► thing that that bugs me a little bit was [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► the idea that he's just been keeping his [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► real eyes closed [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► this whole time yeah I thought he didn't [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► have any eyes I just I don't know that [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► was that was maybe a little a little [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► step too far that he was able to open [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► his eyes and they looked so healthy and [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► young in that i did--like that he double [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► crossed himself too i think we talked [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► about it maybe maybe offline or online [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► rather not a podcast that that uh he is [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► saying one thing a high fool you but [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► really he had had a real emotional [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► moment with the doctor and there was you [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► know it was presented i think was active [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► beautifully i think the whole bit [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► was I was like something's going on here [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► but I thought maybe maybe we're getting [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► a different kind of insight maybe [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► somebody double-crosses Davros comes [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► from outside this scene or the Daleks [TS]

00:06:09 ◼   ► come in and in these like haha fooled [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► you into grabbing the cable but I'm like [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► now you revealed a little too much for [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► yourself i love those moments when they [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► transcend the script they transcend the [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► acting and they become that you know [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► mythology that that has a it's routine [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► is rooted in emotion but it's also like [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► that was a great like deeply but many [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► layers seen in the middle of a good [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► episode 2 [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► yeah I i like to think that Davros I [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► think you put said well some some more [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► he gave some more information out that [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► perhaps intended to and I i want to [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► think that I want to think that we've [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► gotten some insight and this wasn't all [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► just kind of a sham [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► that's part of his plot that we got a [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► little bit of insight into your [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► character i got just like showing him as [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► a child you know [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► Davros had to come from somewhere and be [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► somebody before he be [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► name a monster and so to see that is [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► interesting i loved and I'll enjoyed [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► listening to this we talk about it on [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► the opening TV podcast but we also [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► talked about it or I heard are people [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► talking about it on radio free Skaro and [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► on on very the idea that this call back [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► to genesis of the Daleks and the [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► audacity of Steven Moffat to name-check [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► and like reference in so many ways this [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► hallowed piece of doctor who classic [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► Doctor Who cannon that that's ground [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► that I mean you gotta you gotta you [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► gotta have guts to to to go there and he [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► went there and and that moment that I [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► saw the fog kind of blowing across the [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► battlefield I was like oh geez its [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► genesis of the Daleks and that's exactly [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► what it was so full credit to him for [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► having that the guts to do that well [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► select the political timing that we have [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► you know would you kill baby diverse and [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► then then it's could you kill baby [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► Hitler was what like days later this [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► translator please watch doctor who [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► wanted you'll get all the answers that [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► you need your passion to baby Hitler [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► yeah and I i mean i like that none of [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► the plot machinations really came back [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► later or any of the things except for [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► the confession dial but it it fits [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► automatically with things that are going [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► on through the rest of the season which [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► I really liked [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► yeah i love the sheen stealing bits by [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► missy because she's so wonderful i just [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► michelle gomez fantastic but that the [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► i'm thinking of making this is just [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► nonchalantly has jenna strong as a Clara [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► strung up and then when she says [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► something really clever like I maybe [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► you're not sandwiches just for absolute [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► immorality and like it's just it's so [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► rare as a character that that [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► unmotivated buy anything particular [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► except the desire to cause chaos active [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► their own well it's great [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► yeah she refers to Clara to as you know [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► the puppy in the relationship which is [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► which is actually something i think i [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► have done before on podcast just talking [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► about the doctor and how he looks at [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► humans whether he wants to admit it or [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► not that you know that he doesn't see [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► humans is quite on the same level of him [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► much as he tries and Missy just of [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► course is the kind of person who will [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► flat out state that [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► right although i'm not i'm never [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► convinced whether that's species humans [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► that way or he sees everybody that way [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► it's right breaking his own kind is that [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► way too i met so as much I agree I i [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► like the idea that we don't have this [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► big story in the beginning that comes [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► around in the end I think that was good [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► i didn't need to see that climactic [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► Davros Daleks whatever at the end of the [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► season [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► that said i am actually a little bit [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► disappointed that we didn't get more [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► michelle gomez because just great and [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► she's really great but they're clearly [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► paving the way for future episodes [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► especially know that you just her making [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► a deal with the Daleks and we never see [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► actually what happens what the terms are [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► and how they'll come back in the next [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► year and you know what's gonna happen [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► next series here in series after that [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► sure and I mean she did get two episodes [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► that's true but she's so great I mean I [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► I i I'm not sure I felt give me more [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► missy right away at the end of series 8 [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► but but at the end of this two-part I [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► was like I don't really want to wait a [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► whole series to get more of michelle [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► gomez as Missy because she was a she was [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► a lot of fun just that dear my dearest [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► enemy business it's like how much she [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► loves the doctor [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► yeah you know I think that was good with [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► the with the Saxon master also on black [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► actor's name the wonderful Johnson [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► Thank You Johnson was wonderful and just [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► you know chudai mean live with a screen [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► was bleeding when he was done it was [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► just so shoot up but just you got that [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► sense that they were in it together with [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► the two of them they were boys together [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► they grown up together they have this [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► affection that was so terrible in their [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► difference in how they approach the [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► universe it would literally tear the [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► universe apart and i thought the Missy [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► what part was like a little slightly [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► more general version of that she's like [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► who would you know [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► well who else would he trust for [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► Christ's sake you know but also a little [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► imbalance a little stuff i don't want to [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► say stalkery but a little imbalanced [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► where the doctors has a little bit more [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► healthy connection to reality then then [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► the master does and so and but I i like [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► this because this is as with any James [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► Bond villain you know after a while it [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► did the conflict should be resolved and [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► the why is it not resolved and the [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► answer is you know in reality is because [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► we want to keep seeing them in conflict [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► but in the in the show I i think this is [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► a very clever way of doing it which is [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► that you [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► all of them the master Missy they don't [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► really want to kill the doctor they just [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► want the doctor's attention they want to [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► play with the doctor they want to be fun [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► traps are flirting you know and i think [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► that's an interesting take on it that is [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► yeah that's a little bit meta but it's [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► also I think fun to have that be the [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► relationship began because of that use [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► you do trust her I mean I you know when [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► it was missing car running around the [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► the basement of the Dalek City there and [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► and like you know mr. was sort of saying [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► we'll get the Dalek it's the perfect way [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► to sort of break in and it's just a way [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► of like tricking Claire to get into the [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► Daleks so she can become you know her [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► personal killing machine but we believed [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► it because we we knew that missy is sort [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► of working towards saving the doctor for [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► some strange reason is because of [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► michelle gomez that that it's such a [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► believable performance and and I mean I [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► love her as an agent of chaos which [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► gonna have one then again and as a [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► coyote trickster kind of character from [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► from mythology minutes she's and and I I [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► was not a fan last year I loved her in [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► this I was going to throw out the [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► Riddler to a little bit and where it's [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► like you know just the Riddler really [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► want to kill Batman a lot of times I [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► think the Riddler just likes oh he's [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► playing with my puzzles yay right now [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► because it's fun to play with Batman and [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► I get a little bit of that for Missy to [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► he's the only one who answers them [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► that's right that's right no one else [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► will solve my dazzles Robin might I like [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► a plausible equal to as opposed to the [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► Emperor Palpatine like he gets a lot of [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► paperwork out of that whole situation [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► when I can determine that much else and [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► missy is is the case delight and what [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► she's doing and master he's doing that [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► goes beyond that like destroying the [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► universe it's like no peace having a [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► good time she had a good time [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► alright let's move on and talk about the [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► toby White House two-part episode under [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► the lake and before the flood this is [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► the one you may remember with ghosts on [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► Lukey goes on under underwater base and [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► then one of the things that I thought [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► was a clever structural thing is that [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► you essentially get part two before you [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► get part one where there in this flooded [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► old area and then part 2 goes back in [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► time to see how it got flooded [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► I think maybe less cleverly than I had [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► hoped it would get resolved but i still [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► think it's structurally kind of funny [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► yet to say what if we did a story where [TS]

00:13:37 ◼   ► you see part two and then you see part 1 [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► and then you see the resolution because [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► that's what the structure is here and [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► you so you get to kind of different [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► feeling episodes and it's a base under [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► siege and a bunch of kind of classic [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► Doctor Who stuff so what did everybody [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► think of this 1i I quite liked it i love [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► the the mood [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► i loved how quickly the the setting and [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► like the the setting up of the episode [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► happened because when I when I you know [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► it was revealed that there's gonna be a [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► two-parter the base underseas I just [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► would've expected a sort of a [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► languishing part1 just sort of setting [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► the mood and everything but we knew [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► exactly what was happening before the [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► opening credits rolled on that first [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► episode and so the rest is just sort of [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► left atmosphere and everything and I i [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► love dumb i love many things i love the [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► I love the the deaf person in charge i [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► actually started off as a sort of a [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► conceited the story but just she became [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► a strong character on her own right [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► I love the flashcards that the doctor [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► has in order to try and appear you know [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► human and sort of i have emotional [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► compassion for people i quite enjoyed [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► that and um and yeah it was it was it [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► was really well directed I'm i think my [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► favorite part was the very beginning of [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► the second part where you know at time [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► shows which is sort of try and disguise [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► info dumps as a as a two-handed [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► conversation this info dump is Peter [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► Capaldi talking directly to camera [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► talking about basically what the [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► solution of the episode will be going [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► with you know with with no protection [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► whatsoever i was just bold and fantastic [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► loved that although in those other call [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► for to the fact that he's talking to [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► Clara in his head in the end a [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► heaven-sent is I mean because that's the [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► same sort of scenario can be what could [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► be i mean i think it's that it's [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► presented that same light and I'm like [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► it's him being clever in his head he [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► already knows what he's saying but he's [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► saying it to ask the audience to his you [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► know companion is not present as he [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► speaks it right [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► I never made that connection before but [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► that that makes perfect sense at the [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► time because I [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► don't like it when characters break the [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► fourth wall so at the time I was trying [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► to fit that part together with the very [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► last scene when Clara is actually on the [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► TARDIS and I wanted it to stitch [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► together perfectly [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► so the doctor was actually explaining it [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► to Clara however I've watched the [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► episode i watched it like two three four [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► times or something like that now and the [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► the way that that the camera keeps [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► moving and the way that the doctor keep [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► speaking to the camera in different [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► angles it absolutely cannot yes you are [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► there talking to because he keeps [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► changing direction and she's nowhere to [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► be found except he asks her about [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► Beethoven so it's a callback whether she [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► understands and I guess exactly left to [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► the imagination but i like it because it [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► reminded me of of of uh listen which has [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► the same kind of structure where the [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► doctor is basically talking to the [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► camera or is he [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► but I don't know I kind of feel like [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► that if there's ever anybody who's going [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► to narrate his own internal monologue [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► allowed as he wanders around it's the [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► doctor and I just I love the bootstrap [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► paradox thing I I like how it's done [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► I like that he's got the guitar that he [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► plays Beethoven's fifth on that kicks [TS]

00:16:50 ◼   ► into the doctor who theme with the [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► guitar going in the background [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► yes yes like the guitar so much more [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► than I thought when they first [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► introduced with the guitar i thought [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► what a gimmick and I I really adored as [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► a unique and and your lively surprising [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► element was great who knew that then [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► Peter old the oldest actor to be cast as [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► the doctor in ages [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► Peter Capaldi would be at his best with [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► an electric guitar some sonic sunglasses [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► and hoodie who knew I like that i think [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► the bats the whole scene also ties up [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► with with heaven-sent yeah and that i [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► think it all sort of takes place in his [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► if you will Sherlockian mind Palace is [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► actually has talked to himself you know [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► that we are the again I mean Steven [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► Moffat leaves no stone unturned in and I [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► notice turn some people off but at least [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► no stone unturned in me kind of like [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► metatextual aspect of Doctor Who I when [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► I was obsessed with Doctor Who in high [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► school I read the the skull basically [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► scholarly work doctor who the unfolding [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► text which is a fascinating thing but it [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► was like it really opened my mind to the [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► idea of taking a silly TV show [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► really seriously and and what I love [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► that Steven Moffat is that he does that [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► he he says why don't we do an episode [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► about the questions we ask ourselves [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► about what why what why doctor who does [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► what it does and this is a great example [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► of that where it's like he's talking to [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► us we are his internal monologue we are [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► his audience [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► he says he literally says what am i [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► without an audience [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► this ain't right unless you can look so [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► Cara so I mean anyway you could say that [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► so that's winking and its fourth wall [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► breaking and all that but i don't know i [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► think it's more than that I think that [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► it's it's this character it's not [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► unreasonable to understand that this [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► character is performing for at least an [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► imagined audience if not a real [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► television audience and and and and [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► throughout the season we see that and [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► and Peter Capaldi does well it'sit's i [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► find it yeah it's a lot of fun and I [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► mean throughout he's done a really good [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► job as a showrunner dwelling on on what [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► is story was story mean what is myth you [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► know and and just sort of drawing all of [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► these different things that with with [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► each season with each different doctor [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► he's written for and and this was sort [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► of like the next step it's like okay now [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► we're just we're gonna talk it's not [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► just myth it's not just for retail I'm [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► talking to you as an audience right you [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► pointed out stories is so true you know [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► back in the fifth doctor with the fifth [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► doctor Cena we're all stories in the end [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► and here it's it's it's really playing [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► around with the fact that the doctor [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► literally is a story is just you know [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► giving up the pretense and now he's [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► talking directly to us on any with Amy [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► Pond the same that first the mat smith [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► season season 5 steven moffat first [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► season was all about fairy tales right [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► and and that the doctor was a fairytale [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► and here we have something sort of [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► similar to that i like it i I you know I [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► i enjoyed i think that is as modern as [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► doctor who gets and I i get people [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► saying that they wanted they they'd like [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► to see something different you know we [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► are in the Steven Moffat era now it is [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► closer to the end than just the [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► beginning and there will be a change in [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► in leadership that leads to a show [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► runner who does something different but [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► I think we'll look back on this and say [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► on this area and say why Steven Moffat [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► pushed a lot of boundaries and made some [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► bold decisions [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► 22 question as a lifelong doctor who fan [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► to question how does the show work what [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► what you know [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► yeah what can we do that is not that is [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► outside the rules of the show or [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► comments on how the show works and and [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► to have a talented intelligent schreiter [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► and showrunner do that I think this is a [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► very special kind of error from the show [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► even though i would also probably agree [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► that if the show was only ever this it [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► would be too much but it's not only [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► after this it's doctor who it will be [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► something else again just as it was [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► something else before and and being [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► himself a lifelong fan too and saying [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► both you know how do we make it [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► interesting but also how do i tell [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► stories in this show that's been around [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► for 50 years that are different that [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► have never been told in this way yeah [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► exactly when he gets to settle the [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► cannon to there's things that he's [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► probably been thinking about for decades [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► he's like okay this is kannan now that [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► thing that I wanted to say it is and [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► that's great headcanon is now can [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► although very fun i think one of the [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► things and this is skipping ahead a [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► little bit and we will get back on the [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► MSO track here is where i found great [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► restraint in some ways with him a little [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► like Howard's in the force awakens there [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► are a lot of of details that are left to [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► the to the audience's imagination [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► I feel like Steven Moffat delights in in [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► the loose threads [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► yeah and while he likes to pick up [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► threads that he bothered him when he was [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► a fan [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► he also delights in leaving loose [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► threads behind for either his successors [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► or just for the fans to drive themselves [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► crazy about and and i love that because [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► it would be so easy to tie everything up [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► with a bow and I do appreciate the fact [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► that Steven Moffat does not want to do [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► that he wants to leave messy bits for [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► the audience to get frustrated about [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► I think he also wants to leave bits for [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► you know the the alternate materials to [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► fill in so books and Big Finish and I [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► mean he's he's he because he kind of [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► came from that world he is very first [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► doctor who think was actually a short [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► story I think he's cognizant of the fact [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► that there are other professionals out [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► there doing dr. great doctor who work in [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► other room [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► homes and now I think he likes the idea [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► that he has given them an extra little [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► bit of a playground let's let's move on [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► talk about the oh and one last thing [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► about episode 74 just tiny t-shirt is it [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► deals with story the fact i thought it [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► was a very clever idea i've seen it used [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► before in other contexts including Snow [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► Crash really been no Stephenson is uh [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► this idea of rewriting the brains [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► firmware and that idea that i'm just [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► looking at some characters on a wall and [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► only did we actually saw it it rewrote [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► their firmware so that they would have [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► this kind of weird electromagnetic echo [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► after they died I was like that was [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► ingenious and interesting it 3i didn't [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► love that episode pair that much i love [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► the look more than the the plot there's [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► some great bits in it but that got me [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► for something I was very a very clever [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► bit but that was not exploited too much [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► was just sort of in the air as an [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► interesting idea that your your brain is [TS]

00:23:15 ◼   ► hacked by just the act of seeing the [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► characters on the side of the wall [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► inside the thing is realistic a little [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► linguistic programming spooky let me [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► take a break to tell you about our [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► sponsor this episode of the [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► uncomfortable brought to you by the [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► zombies run virtual race now this is [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► such a great idea we all know running [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► helps get you fit a lot of people run [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► i've been running on and off for the [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► last year but it's also really boring [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► and you want to stick something in your [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► ear holes maybe you'll listen to [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► podcasts maybe listen to music this is a [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► virtual race that makes running fun [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► whenever you're out in the world you [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► head out to run five or 10 k with your [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► headphones in and the app immerses you [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► any thrilling audio story it's specially [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► designed to match the distance you're [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► running so while you're running you'll [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► hear zombies clothes on your heels [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► you'll need to pick up the pace you'll [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► hear fighter jets roaring overhead the [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► ticking of a bomb that only you can stop [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► yet to run to get there a lot of really [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► clever ideas an immersive story that [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► also enter interacts with you and you're [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► running and the zombies run virtual race [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► you're not just running around the track [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► you're running to save the world [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► you get a you when you enter the virtual [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► race you get the audio adventure series [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► that takes you from the start your [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► training all the way to the end of the [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► race you get a professional quality [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► technical running t finishers medal and [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► a bunch of other great gear [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► Plus $55 its way cheaper and more fun [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► than a gym membership the first zombies [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► run virtual race was held in October of [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► 2015 was completely sold out that 25 [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► entries and a ninety-nine point nine [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► percent satisfaction rate so a virtual [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► race and a great story to focus the mind [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► while you're running there [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► here's what you need to go visit zombies [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► virtual race dot-com and if you use [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► coupon code and comfortable you'll get [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► five dollars off your entry that zombies [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► virtual race dot-com and thank you to [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► zombies run for sponsoring the [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► incomparable ok the girl who died the [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► woman who lived this is a paired set of [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► episodes as opposed to a two-parter [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► proper I think Jay Madison and Steven [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► Moffat with a girl who died Catherine [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► regret Organa wrote the woman who lived [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► we meet a shoulder she is a young uh [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► young woman in this village and in the [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► girl who died there are aliens who are [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► not me i don't know taking the [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► testosterone of the Warriors of the [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► village i guess and rent their Vikings [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► it certs is still in my calculator [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► precious bodily fluids let's put it that [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► way [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► yeah and so we get we get all of the in [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► that part 1 we get we get all of that [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► the doctor also uh or is reminded why he [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► chose his face which is an interesting [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► little bit you talk about Steven Moffat [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► kind of answering questions while [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► bringing up other questions and then in [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► the part 2 [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► it's it's uh I like more than a thousand [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► years later and shielder who is saved by [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► the doctor at the end of the first [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► episode and made sort of accidentally [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► immortal he runs into her again by [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► accident or r by plan and we discovered [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► that after a thousand years she sort of [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► can't remember things because she's got [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► a human-sized memory but but she but she [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► and she calls herself me because I guess [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► that's she's the only thing that matters [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► didn't even need a name and we learn [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► more about her in that so this is the [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► paired parent episodes that when i [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► watched them i thought we're not going [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► to lead to some more appearances by [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► maisie williams from Game of Thrones not [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► accurate she actually is in the last two [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► episodes [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► as it turns out and watching his back i [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► was i was a scanning through a bunch of [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► these episodes today before we did this [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► I am impressed by the fact that the [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► mystery of this season was made [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► perfectly clear at the end of episode 5 [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► where the doctor says I've made her a [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► and he gets this look on his face and he [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► says she's a hybrid and and from the [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► perspective of the end of the season you [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► realize that's the moment where he [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► realizes that he what he's just done is [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► created a legendary figure in [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► Gallifreyan history he realized he [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► totally gets it at that moment but [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► that's what he's done but I'm till [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► you've seen the whole season and gone [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► circle back around again you don't [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► realize that i never really so now think [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► about it so she actually the hybrid did [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► cause what was said but she what didn't [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► cause it to happen right it's like it's [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► like Crouching in the in the wreckage of [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► Gallifrey she's there at the end of the [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► yeah but she also sets in the sequence [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► of events because the kind words are [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► afraid of the hybrid it's that circular [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► I want to give Moffat credit for being [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► called back lever that she because he is [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► but I mean some of the stuff i know you [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► read into much of his head canon but she [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► sets into motion by being there the [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► Californians have the production and [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► then she an axe or does the thing that [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► gets the doctor to go into the [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► punishment is so then what's up with the [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► doctor deciding to destroy history to [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► recover Clara and there she's in the [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► ruins so it's very neat i don't think [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► the Marlins actually not that neat [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► because it's only one because because [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► the other so that's the other part of [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► the prophecy was that did you know [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► ruined Gallifrey like destroyed the [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► billion hearts to heal its own another [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► doctor [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► wow that's not better ever so it's it's [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► still it's still very much left [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► headcanon which I love I like that it's [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► very open-ended listen didn't I anything [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► up in and we don't know who the hybrid [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► is ultimately but it is funny that in [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► this moment first she's created by the [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► doctors compassion realizing who he is [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► and what what he stands for and that's [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► why he does this [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► but but there is that great moment upon [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► reflection and and it's it's a it's a [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► perfect thing because it is structured [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► for people who have seen the whole [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► season and are watching it again to go [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► oh look at that where he very clearly is [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► like she's a hybrid and you could [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► see it in his eyes that he he has [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► figured out who she is or as an inkling [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► of who she is and that's all really [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► interesting and then that becomes a [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► threat in this whole season which is the [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► doctor does a good deed because that's [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► who he is and he saves people and that's [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► why he chose the face of Achilles who [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► david tennant's doctor saved in Pompeii [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► but it has ramifications because in this [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► case he's like with Captain Jack [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► Harkness who is who is named checked at [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► a later time because she now can't die [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► and therefore is an anomaly in the [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► universe and they also mention that [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► hybrid business in the first dalla [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► two-parter and that's right them that's [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► the hybrid that that the Time Lords [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► think is the legend that a half Dalek [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► half Time Lord hyper exactly exceeded [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► yeah I I thought it was interesting too [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► that the throwaway bit that was [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► confusing is in the in the woman who [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► lived they make another immortal and [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► that's it and we don't see him again [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► well no because they didn't they didn't [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► say that he was necessarily more like [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► you said it may have burned out the chip [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► in order to actually bring him back so [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► who knows i'm making that up he said [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► maybe right [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► also also there's the fact that she's [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► not i mean not exactly indestructible [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► she wondered if she doesn't get harmed [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► exactly reason she live so long is [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► because she's awesome and that every guy [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► didn't seem quite so awesome so i [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► wouldn't be surprised if you just got [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► his head lopped off accidentally and [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► some point could grow a new one but his [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► head is immortal but his body is that we [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► carry out a convenient that's a text [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► file so you get the face but that's the [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► Christmas episode [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► any other thoughts about I mean about [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► this is interesting setup of the sort of [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► paired like these are the I shielder [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► stories about about the I mean the first [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► the first story is a fairy it feels like [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► a very kind of like standard Doctor Who [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► story there are Vikings and you know and [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► and aliens it's actually my least [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► favorite of the whole sounds I think my [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► favorite my favorite parts of this [TS]

00:30:58 ◼   ► two-parter were just the the [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► heart-to-heart character bits between [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► the doctor and a shoulder / me [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► yeah and it's when they sort of you know [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► when the brand it brought in that weird [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► lion and everything else that sort of [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► what else [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► it kinda kinda distracted from anyway [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► and Stephen space this space but what's [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► the episode Tom Baker series with the [TS]

00:31:16 ◼   ► the navigator all I know I was really [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► hoping is gonna be a thorough from [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► warriors game was not every i love that [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► pair those at me I whatever the rep so [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► there any spans love the hell yeah [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► they're totally different space lion's [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► mane anyw Spacelines yeah it's a credit [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► credit amazing williams who I think if [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► you actually time don't how much screen [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► time she had in her four episodes of [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► Doctor Who she might have had more than [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► the whole last season of Game of Thrones [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► oh yeah but I mean she gives four [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► distinct performances of the shoulder in [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► four episodes because she's aged so many [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► times in between and this is a girl who [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► turned 18 during the course of making my [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► series you know like she is a talented [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► young actress [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► yeah it was great to watch him yeah I [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► had that I that's a moment same thought [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► of like because I had a moment during [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► this season where I thought I think I [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► think I'm use maisie williams as as the [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► next companion i did have that moment [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► and I thought well no cuz she's on Game [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► of Thrones and I thought how much work [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► does she do for Game of Thrones really [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► oh right i mean she's in like 15 minutes [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► of Game of Thrones every year [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► she's in very little of it because [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► that's how game of thrones works so you [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► know she yeah she i'm pretty sure she [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► has more screen time and Doctor Who than [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► in Game of Thrones this year how [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► underrated one last little thing that I [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► like which is that the idea of placing [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► you mentioned that she has a human mind [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► so she actually does not have it you [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► know in eternal memory she has a limited [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► memory and she says volumes and I mean [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► it's sort of a gag and she's got you [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► know a library full of volumes of her [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► diary there's no way in any given period [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► of time she can review that enough to [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► reclaim the memory that she lost so [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► there is that a bit there but i think [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► the idea of a boring immortality [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► there's a in the the night of the doctor [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► you know he encounters that the sisters [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► on Khan and karna and they say he's like [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► oh yes the sister it was at the sisters [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► of infinite boredom I've forgotten the [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► sea but he's contemptuous of immortality [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► even as he has this very long life and [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► is now lived as long as the universe [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► possible he threw all his master nations [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► but I just like that idea that the [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► immortality comes in different flavors [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► you've got [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► the captain jack harkness flavor you got [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► the shoulder flavor the doctor is flavor [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► of the oh he left flavor and so forth [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► and and another saying just watching [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► this are thinking about it at least [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► again after seeing the entire series [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► another little through line is the fact [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► that you have Clara's reaction to a [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► shoulder you know saying you know she's [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► just she's great you know I'll fight you [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► for it and in the end [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► Clara actually does get to have her as [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► the companion like our shoulders is [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► close companion ostensibly at the end of [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► the entire series so yeah she didn't [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► really have to fight the doctor for she [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► just got her which by God I i want to [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► see girl I want to hear that big [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► finished like now it's AII like the [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► because it when everybody heard that [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► Maisie Williams in it and and that she's [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► gonna play a huge part and then them as [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► much as Peter Capaldi's been talking [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► about Susan in interviews leading up to [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► the series everyone thought that Maisie [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► Williams going to play Susan in some way [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► shape [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► oh mom what I love what I love the [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► Ronnie what I love is at the end we know [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► yeah what I love it at the end win-win [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► klar runs off fleas Gallifrey in a [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► TARDIS and takes with her companion it's [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► Susan who was of course the companion of [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► the doctor when he took a TARDIS fleeing [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► Gallifrey I just love the the parallels [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► in that in that in that the fact you [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► know the outlandish fan theory was [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► actually sort of born true in the end I [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► i wanted to mention something here which [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► is and I've heard a lot of people say [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► the Clara has a shoulder as her [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► companion here but shields lived [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► millions of years that'll yeah i'm not [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► quite sure I feel like they're both one [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► another's companion at that point they [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► both have different things to offer each [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► other at that point neither of them is [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► really Time Lords they're just they're [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► very interesting characters in their [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► little tartness together it's not quite [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► the parallel but well I mean they're [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► both they're both immortal [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► yes yes shield they're all right another [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► son of mortality has live longer but my [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► car is the one who has actually been [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► taking dr. lessons [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► yes that's yours and she's the one who [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► knows how to pilot the TARDIS so I still [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► I still see it in that way i don't know [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► shoulder might have taken dr. lessons at [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► one point her Billy matters of existence [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► whenever the doctor wasn't happy with [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► her [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► she's sitting there in the in the [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► armchair waiting for someone to show up [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► yeah the ruins of Gallifrey reading the [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► manuals that's what I do that that could [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► be that could pick so let's talk about [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► the episode 78 because we've only gotten [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► to that point the the Zygons this is [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► interesting because it's a directs a [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► direct follow on from the 50th [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► anniversary special which I was [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► surprised by and uh you know if we got [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► you we got unit i think i would argue [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► that unit is poorly run as questionable [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► budgets that appropriate given the [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► history of unit two guys place seventies [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► they hey let's end our leader to america [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► by herself in order to discover things [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► you know I don't think you get for what [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► gets used particularly well I'm not sure [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► what they if they know what to do with [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► unit but why did like about this is we [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► have we get some more Osgood who is an [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► interesting character and is made way [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► more interesting and less of a just a [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► fan proxy in this she's got a real [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► backbone since we discovered that what [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► that there were a pair of us goods igon [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► human and one of them got killed by [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► missy but the other one didnt so that's [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► an interesting twist and we get some uh [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► some really interesting stuff with [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► without with Clara as at whose were [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► doing some stuff on her own and and then [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► ultimately it culminates in a scene in [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► the black archive back where we were in [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► the 50th where Peter Capaldi gives a a [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► speech about a war and about people [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► making easy decisions to go to war and [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► not thinking about the consequences that [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► is performance wise one of I think the [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► highlights of the season even though you [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► know you could argue that it's wrapped [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► in an episode that does that can't live [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► up to what he does in that 10 minute [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► span so you know what that's my that's [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► my take on it is i think these episodes [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► are kind of a mess but there's a bunch [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► of little bits in it that were very good [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► and that Capaldi speech is for the ages [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► it's just a fantastic little bit i think [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► one of the big themes that over arch [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► this whole series is that the idea of [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► consequences and repercussions almost [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► every single one of these these two [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► partners has something in there you know [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► whether it's meeting dad process a child [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► or you didn't [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► turning me into a hybrid or in this case [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► i love the idea that we are finally [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► seeing the fallout of what happened with [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► the Zygons invading I mean they actually [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► got to stay that's the kind of thing [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► that you almost never saw especially in [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► classic who you got a little bit more in [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► early knew who but you know the doctor [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► can't just run away from everything [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► anymore and now we're getting to see [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► what happens after after the fallout [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► sort of appears and the idea that there [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► are Zygons living among us on earth you [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► know just hiding is is super awesome [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► well I suppose the Cylons would probably [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► be pretty ticked off about it from when [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► they come back and find out find out [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► that I got into their how many different [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► people are frozen and ice underneath the [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► sea locked in a time log in and turns [TS]

00:38:33 ◼   ► out that almost point at this point in [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► Doctor Who timelines there are no actual [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► humans like they're aliens in the sky [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► yeah i think this is a sci-fi novel [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► about that is never a short story about [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► everyone on earth actually being a [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► duplicated personally only if there's [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► not all do it there's a classic science [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► fiction story about how time traveler [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► goes back to the crucifixion of Jesus [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► and discovers that everybody there is a [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► time traveler [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► yeah I know Jason and I talked about [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► episode 74 when the flash cast and I [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► remember saying like you know there's a [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► lot of creates things in this but the [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► payoff a better be good because there's [TS]

00:39:09 ◼   ► just so many loose ends and you know I [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► feel like the payoff was was pretty good [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► i don't think that episode 7 I lived up [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► as much but I thought a lot of stuff was [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► reckoned in 27 from eight and i quite [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► like the pair much more than I thought [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► especially because the hole is good [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► thing where is she's not even being coy [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► she's like we're both osgood and then [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► the ending where there's another Osgood [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► you're like the potential for redemption [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► is a theme of Doctor Who and most people [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► never take it most aliens he's like look [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► I could save your whole people they got [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► mad and then he has to distract them all [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► or they destroyed themselves when I was [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► David Tennant's move right I'm will give [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► you this one warning well i'm not gonna [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► take it okay well then you're all dead [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► yeah exactly what's gonna happen to [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► destroy everybody because that's so I do [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► sometimes actually the generalization so [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► I mean people like Star Wars fans like [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► to make a gentle fun i suppose of the [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► star wars proclivity to have like every [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► Planet has it [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► on one single ecosystem where we live on [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► a planet that has hundreds of different [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► ecosystems you different climates and [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► things but no no other planets it's [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► either just eyes are just desert or just [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► trees but you can argue that doctor who [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► and sci-fi in general does a very bad [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► job in terms of taking an alien race and [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► and and being so reductive about them [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► and saying well they are evil or there [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► they are you know this is what the [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► aliens do land and one of the things [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► that I think maybe he's even a little [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► underappreciated about the design icon [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► to partner is designed guns this classic [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► Doctor Who enemy from the Loch Ness [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► monster back in the seventies these [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► episodes are all about a split in these [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► igon community on earth essentially this [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► immigrant is icon community and there [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► are radicalized icons who think that [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► it's read only right that they not be [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► high hiding and then there are the ones [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► who just want to live their lives and of [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► course the parallel is probably to [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► something like Syria where there is a [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► refugee crisis and there are people who [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► just want to live their lives and yes [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► there are also radicalized terrorists [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► among them and this the challenge of not [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► generalizing an entire group to be one [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► thing and I like that about this episode [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► i really like that these icons are not a [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► monolith they don't this race doesn't [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► believe one thing that they have a [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► schism they're individuals they take [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► different sides of an issue we meet the [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► Zygons who just want to stay looking [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► like humans and living their lives [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► because they're basically refugees and [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► doctor refers to them as people alltime [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► family room for children [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► yes I also like the fact that they [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► actually claim the redemption was [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► important because that ending is so [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► powerful because what Bonnie the fact [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► that she uh when she figures it out all [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► all when she says both boxes are empty [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► just like the buttons don't do anything [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► and then she achieves that moment is [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► like a satori moment like I [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► Zen thing of now that person's chief the [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► new level of enlightenment and she's [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► allowed to demonstrate it in that final [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► scene weather now to Oscar to get [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► wonderful yeah what I what I loved about [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► about capacities speech there is that I [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► think you know matt smith what I think [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► made a good speech in one early episode [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► and the writers I think henceforth sort [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► of always wrote big giant speeches from [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► because they realize he you know he was [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► good at them and then it just became a [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► thing to fill time and I got tired of [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► him to be honest the weather brings back [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► attend there's a boat or speeches too [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► many but this but this one capacities [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► actually speaking to someone and it's [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► literally like 10 minutes of just him [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► but because he's talking to someone [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► specifically it just feels like you know [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► you're you're locked in and I've ever [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► you know I i have I hold this two-parter [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► in high esteem because it's when Eric [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► and I went to the UK for the first time [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► and then washed in the UK and part 2 [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► especially we watched it you know with a [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► family around the TV as as all British [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► families have to have done for [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► generations now and to watch Doctor Who [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► on a Saturday night and then have this [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► episode be the one that we get to watch [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► I thought ah boy this is just lucked out [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► it was it was brilliant my luck to you [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► watched in the original Klingon as it [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► was intended to be seen [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► yes in Powell I actually watched the [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► power 25 frames you get that you get [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► those a second Dreamz the yawns it's [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► very different [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► yeah it is alright anything more about [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► this is about the minis icons or should [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► we let bygones be anywhere episode 19 [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► for some reason was no episode 9i don't [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► understand this is a big black spot in [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► the season and then no no [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► so that's all right so sleep no more is [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► next is we were now entering our non [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► two-parter little pair here sleeping [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► morbark geddes controversial market is [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► good buddy of Steven Moffat they do [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► Sherlock together so it's unlikely that [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► he's going to be kicked out of writing [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► for doctor who has been writing since [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► season 1 but people over there are a lot [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► of people who are allowed and don't like [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► his episodes i liked sort of half of [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► this episode's maybe and not like the [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► other half sleep no more the this is the [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► story about the same [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► and men who come to life on that space [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► station around Neptune and it's all the [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► found footage and there's no opening [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► credits and it's very unlikely doctor [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► who episode in that sense I you know I [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► did I i do this episode with smiles on [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► the TV podcast and it was funny because [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► i think both of us liked some aspects of [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► it and not others and it was sort of [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► like we started the episode was like [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► that was kind of fun yeah that was kind [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► of fun let's spend 15 minutes detailing [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► all the things that were wrong with it [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► and I feel like it in hindsight that's [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► about right because style-wise i really [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► like the style of this episode i think [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► is so big and dark and weird and and yet [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► there are things in it that it's like no [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► no what are you doing the the whole well [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► we sort of slept and the sleep stays in [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► your eyes if you don't sleep and then it [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► becomes alien sand men that was slick [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► though it doesn't make any sense what I [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► like doing entire shape of it and [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► nothing in it was like everything that's [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► not was insane and the the you know even [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► like the the weird hologram was just so [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► everything was dark and creepy and tired [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► and had a weird ending and all of that I [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► liked and yet there's some of the [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► details [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► no no no now I it feels like I mean [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► market has had the idea for us but for [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► some reason monsters being made out of [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► the ice not using the morning for years [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► but he but he couldn't get the clearance [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► from the song for mr Sandman so this [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► idea just SAT percolating for that long [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► and then he finally got the clearance [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► and by that time doctor who had moved on [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► so it's a very restful t-day vez kind of [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► idea around it just feels and and you [TS]

00:46:07 ◼   ► know I thought well atleast episode 10 [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► is going to be you know a single story [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► too so won't feel that but then it [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► episode 10 was essentially part 1 of the [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► 3 partner to end the season which just [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► led this one too just feel so out of [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► place just like last year robot of [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► Sherwood felt just nothing like a Peter [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► Capaldi episode stuck in you know early [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► early on in this first season and this [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► would just look like it just I know just [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► like to say okay mark you get to make [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► your episode moment [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► again we'll put it on the fridge right [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► there when you're done everyone could be [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► happy and that's just what it felt like [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► an ear I liked I liked the atmosphere [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► like being so true yeah I know I like [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► the direction but i just got our mass [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► this alone [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► well I guess I love some of my favorite [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► my favorite uh one of my favorite David [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► 10 episodes is the is the the impossible [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► planet satan pit and it's for similar [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► reasons which is it's dark and weird and [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► spooky and creepy and like the [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► atmosphere i just love the atmosphere of [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► those episodes and Gabriel Wolf's boys [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► you will die and i would live right i [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► love that and sleeping more has that and [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► it's like works on that level and that's [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► it i think it was almost like greatest [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► wants to wants to have his own little [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► blink moment you know don't blink don't [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► ever blink and they show shots of you [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► know various statues around the world [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► they're gonna get you if you if you keep [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► looking at them and that speech at the [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► end you know who you've got something at [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► the corner of you I never thought no I [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► don't come on i do not have a monster [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► forming in the corner of my eye you know [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► I it was we went to was a crazy November [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► because we went to Long Island Doctor [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► Who convention where we watched this [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► episode live on on on the Saturday night [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► they played it to the whole auditorium [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► and then two weeks later we're jakarta's [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► for the plate heaven-sent and the the [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► immediate reaction both during and after [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► the episodes could not have been more [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► different [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► yeah wewe a radio free scar had to do a [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► live review of sleep no more own right [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► after like literally i'd say about [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► seventy percent of the people just sort [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► of like you know walked out as if they [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► had just seen their football team lose a [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► game just like a walk back just look at [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► them with the with the flash casts and [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► also just like with ready for Scarlett [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► Verity being committed to reviewing [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► every episode you had that moment of [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► like well what do we say various media I [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► I again I don't think Sleep No More is a [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► complete failure because of because it's [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► saying style is good i mean the style is [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► not not part of the episode that is part [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► of the the episode [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► and the style is great it's just you [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► know again when you get into the [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► analysis of it [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► oh you know that's when it falls apart [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► it's actually like it's better to be [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► viewed and being like but once your or [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► if you're in a crowd of fans right you [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► start thinking about it and it's just it [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► does not withstand scrutiny [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► I just as I feel like it is felt like an [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► early draft not a complete thing like [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► they hadn't gone back and tighten it up [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► any more consistent which they did so [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► well I mean you know we'll talk about [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► this at the end with this season was a [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► phenomenal season and in this episode [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► was not so it stood out more [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► sometimes I wonder about the politics of [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► it like interpersonal relationships of [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► you know you're Steven Moffat likes [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► Russell Russell Davis free road almost [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► everybody i think except Steven Moffat [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► Steven Moffat apparently doesn't really [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► do that and sometimes I wonder that you [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► get these scripts that could probably be [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► made better if the if and whether it's [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► over work or it's just difference you [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► get a you get the scripts just go [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► through with women with perhaps I don't [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► know the inside story here but it would [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► not surprise me if market history got a [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► really light touch on it a little bit [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► like kill the moon the previous season [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► where I felt like it's interesting but [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► it could probably there are some very [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► simple things that would have probably [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► made a stronger story but they didn't [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► happen maybe that's out of out of [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► deference to Peter harness i don't i [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► don't know but uh yeah yeah i mean i-i [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► think it's a I think this episode is [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► kind of a mess [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► even though i like a lot of things about [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► it the other thing that I like the most [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► about it was in the the representation [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► in it i like the casting and this has [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► nothing to do with Mark Davis unless he [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► wrote the characters as at most of the [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► characters as female which maybe he did [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► but i love the idea that there's an [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► asian woman who's in charge yeah and we [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► have our first openly transactor playing [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► the the grunt which some people did have [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► trouble with but they did not know that [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► she was trans at the time that they cast [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► her in that role so I don't have a [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► problem with it at all my trouble was [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► the casual sexual harassment that the [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► that person was engaged in against the [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► other crewmember but that's another [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► thing that's not related to their [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► general Josie I loved that was my [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► favorite part of the whole story because [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► it was completely taking that that tired [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► old trope [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► where there's you know the guy in that [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► position and flipping it on its head [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► I think that sometimes those problematic [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► things to me are less problematic [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► because they are you know we need to [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► break them down before we can get rid of [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► them all together so I like turning [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► things that turn things around and and I [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► don't know that it was intentional in [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► the script but probably in the overall [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► planning for the season there is a [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► thread of strong women through the whole [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► season which is really interesting out i [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► think i think that has to be intentional [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► yes because Steven Moffat yes Steven [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► Moffat may not be on Twitter anywhere he [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► still pays attention to to sort of you [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► know what fandom as a whole is is saying [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► and I think that I think that he [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► definitely sort of listens to the [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► feminist backlash against some of the [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► stuff that people had seen and really [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► worked on that with with the casting and [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► gosh look at the end of the season it's [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► not there right yeah it's a also shout [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► out to Neptune Neptune doesn't get a lot [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► of love inside thigh here it is [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► yep tune ya around Neptune okay that [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► brings us to the either an angry person [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► who was upset that i referred to heaven [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► sent his part 1 of the two-part season [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► finale like it's a three-part season [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► finale and that's part like well I don't [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► know [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► utopia sort of leads into the finale and [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► face the Raven sort of leads into the [TS]

00:52:18 ◼   ► two-part finale quite the same but [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► anyway face the Raven it seems like it's [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► a standalone episode rapidly become [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► something very different [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► this is the episode now I managed to see [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► where Erica's emotional progression is [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► now because I've been listening to [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► podcast which she is she is a because [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► i'm a little behind on my very listing [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► she's very emotionally compromised let's [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► say to pull in some Star Trek references [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► about that the death of Clara which [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► happens to face the Raven and it does [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► happen and face the Raven Clara dies and [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► face the Raven we may find out more [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► about her death in the inhale that which [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► we do but uh spoilers but well we're all [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► spoilers here but face the Raven so this [TS]

00:52:58 ◼   ► is there's a street Trixie we find from [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► from the delightful flatline from last [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► year [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► ritzy calls he's got a tattoo that is [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► counting down which is a nice again a [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► nice little creepy idea that's thrown in [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► there there's a little street that was [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► obviously available for [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► the set of harry potter maybe I don't [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► even know it's really an alley where [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► aliens buzz it was and there's a bird [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► and there's a chronolock and and [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► shielder is there or me is there and in [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► the end [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► Clara is being very very clever in a [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► napoleon III have to honestly say is [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► exactly where I thought the doctor and [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► rose were going in season two and then [TS]

00:53:41 ◼   ► they didn't go there she just got [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► accidentally sucked into a vortex to [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► another parallel universe but here it is [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► that like you're dangerous you'll become [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► too much like the doctor and start to [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► think like him but as the doctor says [TS]

00:53:53 ◼   ► he's he's a less what does he say he [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► said something like he's less fragile [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► then she is well he knows what I mean [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► you know there's that the underlying [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► thing that he can't die MIT but the ante [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► plot part but also that he knows when he [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► dies sort of mean that gets rewritten [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► and we get around around take more [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► damage than she can but she's thing i [TS]

00:54:13 ◼   ► like to hear it and and hurts her and it [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► in the end it kills her in a in an [TS]

00:54:19 ◼   ► episode that I found very affecting um I [TS]

00:54:23 ◼   ► was shocked by it I I podcast with with [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► chips others right after this was over [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► and the first five minutes of it was [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► literally me going cheap what did I just [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► see what just happened because i had no [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► idea that they were gonna kill Clara and [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► I was shocked by it and and I felt like [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► they did it right in that we spent time [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► understanding the ramifications of Clara [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► dying he didn't you know when you kill [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► somebody but you're not really killing [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► them you do it you gotta toss it off you [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► don't invest the time and they invested [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► the time to the point where as a [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► educated television viewer like oh no [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► they're taking their taking this [TS]

00:54:56 ◼   ► seriously this must be real [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► they were playing that game which I [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► appreciated while it while it you know [TS]

00:55:03 ◼   ► it shocked me and it upset me the [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► problem i had with this episode I'm [TS]

00:55:07 ◼   ► interested in what all you think the [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► problem i had with this episode as I [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► felt like the the the read the fine [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► print trick that kills clara was not [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► really set up I felt like it was kind of [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► a cheat that the audience was being [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► cheated in order to not out think Clara [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► up [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► about this and that bothered me that was [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► like no no we didn't say that you [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► couldn't transfer it and still not die [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► her home and it's all kind of like a [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► ripoff to me didn't change how affected [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► i was by the ending but I did feel a [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► little bit like they were trying to pull [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► a fast one on me in the middle [TS]

00:55:42 ◼   ► yes and yes yeah yep that's you read the [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► fine print of your death contract you [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► know the the begin the bits and pieces [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► of it are very effective but yeah the [TS]

00:55:51 ◼   ► key to that plot the key to that twist [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► just did not i don't think they sold it [TS]

00:55:59 ◼   ► enough like now it isn't didn't I think [TS]

00:56:01 ◼   ► we're now so much time on her and trying [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► to understand that and not enough time [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► on trying to actually explain and set [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► that up [TS]

00:56:09 ◼   ► yeah you know I sort of like it just all [TS]

00:56:11 ◼   ► of a sudden oh you gotta remind Davis [TS]

00:56:14 ◼   ► this PV at the end the episode so I [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► didn't get that the full weight of her [TS]

00:56:18 ◼   ► dying i was sort of annoyed at that but [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► I kind of got it retcon by episodes by [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► yeah let me enjoy it better well but the [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► other thing was the point that's got me [TS]

00:56:27 ◼   ► but we'll get to 12 but I actually cry [TS]

00:56:29 ◼   ► everytime i watch tell Ben only twice [TS]

00:56:31 ◼   ► when she gets pissed off at him [TS]

00:56:33 ◼   ► why would you do that why would you do [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► that for spending all the time in the in [TS]

00:56:38 ◼   ► the confession dial that got me you know [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► i was dead and gone just like off she [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► that just hit me in the heart in a way [TS]

00:56:46 ◼   ► that this episode didn't unfortunately [TS]

00:56:47 ◼   ► out to watch it again now that another [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► speed about that plot point America how [TS]

00:56:51 ◼   ► are you feeling now [TS]

00:56:52 ◼   ► hey you know if it was any other [TS]

00:56:54 ◼   ► character other than clara who died this [TS]

00:56:56 ◼   ► way I would have punched the air and [TS]

00:56:58 ◼   ► been thrilled because I i often i often [TS]

00:57:01 ◼   ► complain about the fact that that that [TS]

00:57:03 ◼   ► characters on Doctor Who like you know [TS]

00:57:05 ◼   ► it's such a risky proposition to travel [TS]

00:57:07 ◼   ► with the doctor I feel like a lot more [TS]

00:57:09 ◼   ► characters ought to die and and I like [TS]

00:57:11 ◼   ► it when a TV show is bold enough to just [TS]

00:57:14 ◼   ► kill somebody off in a not big not [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► schmaltzy sort of away like this is just [TS]

00:57:19 ◼   ► boom she died [TS]

00:57:21 ◼   ► however the fact that it is Clara my [TS]

00:57:23 ◼   ► possibly favorite companion ever who I'd [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► apparently developed more of an [TS]

00:57:27 ◼   ► emotional attachment to the night even [TS]

00:57:29 ◼   ► thought I had kind of had my hopes up [TS]

00:57:32 ◼   ► that this would be the first new series [TS]

00:57:35 ◼   ► companion who got to basically leave for [TS]

00:57:38 ◼   ► an exciting and good reason why [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► under her own agency we've been sort of [TS]

00:57:44 ◼   ► written us into a corner at this point [TS]

00:57:45 ◼   ► nobody can possibly want to leave the [TS]

00:57:48 ◼   ► doctor because who would want to leave [TS]

00:57:50 ◼   ► that kind of a life and that bugs me [TS]

00:57:52 ◼   ► I like the idea that that characters [TS]

00:57:54 ◼   ► could just go and that's one of the [TS]

00:57:55 ◼   ► things i think was better in the old [TS]

00:57:57 ◼   ► series even though sometimes it was [TS]

00:57:58 ◼   ► really stupid but here we we have a sort [TS]

00:58:03 ◼   ► of a great ending except that I wanted [TS]

00:58:06 ◼   ► her to go on to be awesome and keep in [TS]

00:58:10 ◼   ► mind this is before help help and has [TS]

00:58:11 ◼   ► come along so I I knew that there was a [TS]

00:58:14 ◼   ► good possibility that they were going to [TS]

00:58:16 ◼   ► kill off Clara or make her leave before [TS]

00:58:18 ◼   ► the series was over so about halfway [TS]

00:58:21 ◼   ► through this episode I could suddenly [TS]

00:58:23 ◼   ► see where I was going and it became the [TS]

00:58:25 ◼   ► most awful experience of washing talker [TS]

00:58:27 ◼   ► who I think I've ever had [TS]

00:58:28 ◼   ► I was just tense and I knew where it was [TS]

00:58:31 ◼   ► heading and yep that's where it ended up [TS]

00:58:33 ◼   ► and I was just I was just shaking with [TS]

00:58:35 ◼   ► rage I was so upset but you know I i [TS]