303: ‘Half of the Bikini Emoji’, With Matthew Panzarino
  
   
 
 
	 00:00:00
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     - Are you tired of looking at new Apple products? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - I mean, I hesitate to say that. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     It sounds uncharitable. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     It has been quite an intense schedule. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I think it's obviously partially because they try 
     
     
  
 
 
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     to dump everything at once normally, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     and now it's strung out over weeks. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     But yeah, it's a lot. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     It's been a lot. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I can't phone any of it in. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I'm physically impossible at phoning stuff in, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     so it's just exhausting, that's all. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:00:24
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     - I have the same thought, and there's a part of me 
     
     
  
 
 
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     that gets a little petulant, and it's like, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     so we got, I was very excited to get the AirPods Max, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     'cause they look really neat, and they're very expensive, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:00:38
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     and it sure is fun to be able to try them 
     
     
  
 
 
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     without ordering a pair. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And now at this point, in addition to spending 550 bucks, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:00:45
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     you have to wait weeks and weeks to get 'em. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     But then when they're like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:00:50
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     and review embargoes drop Thursday morning, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:00:53
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     and it's like, 24 hours, F you, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:00:56
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     I'm just gonna phone this in and write three sentences. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Sound good, too heavy. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     There, done, publish. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     But I can't, I have to start, you know. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Yeah, of course. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And it wasn't even the review embargo, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     It's just like, hey, this is the next morning, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     first look stuff, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So I refused personally to sort of review them officially, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     because I'm like, there's no way. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And I felt it wouldn't do anybody a service to pretend 
     
     
  
 
 
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     that I had some sort of fully formed opinion 
     
     
  
 
 
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     on these things, but at the same time, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I can't just go like, oh hey, look, here's the pictures. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I don't know, I'm just incapable of it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:01:36
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     - Well, and I also feel like, and I get it, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     in some sense, I feel a little less pressure, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     because it looks like at this point, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     nobody's getting them for Christmas, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     if you haven't already ordered. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Right, right, if you're not an early adopter, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     who's gonna order 'em anyway, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     you're not gonna get 'em yet. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Maybe you could still get the silver ones, I don't know. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - I don't know. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And there was that fun thing that you pointed out 
     
     
  
 
 
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     that you could get engraved ones in December, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     but you couldn't get non-engraved ones until January. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Right, and it didn't last long, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     but it lasted about an hour. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And it's like, what if you really want a pair 
     
     
  
 
 
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     that's not engraved, you don't want any marks on them at all, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     but you really want 'em by Christmas, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     what is the least intrusive engraving 
     
     
  
 
 
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     that they would let you put? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So they won't let you just put a space. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Their little engraving dingus 
     
     
  
 
 
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     will interpret that as no engraving at all. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So if you go to say, I would like to get my AirPods 
     
     
  
 
 
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     engraved, and this entire string you enter 
     
     
  
 
 
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     is just a space or a series of spaces, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     and then you hit OK, it goes back to the next screen 
     
     
  
 
 
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     and it has no engraving selected, which makes sense. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Oh, uh-huh, yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     What, did you try, this is random, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     but did you try using a zero-width space? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - No, I didn't try any fancy Unicode. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
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     - That would be clever. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I did try a dash, which would just look like a little, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     you know, I also thought, I forget, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I think that the engraving goes on the left cup 
     
     
  
 
 
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     because the right cup is the one with the controls. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So I thought, you know, what if you just put an L, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:03:31
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     'Cause that, even if you don't want them engraved, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     you don't wanna put your name on them, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     you don't wanna put something clever on 'em, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     you don't want an emoji, just put an L. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - I like that it's minimal because it's very Appleistic, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     it's like, hey, we only need one 
     
     
  
 
 
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     because obviously the other one is R. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Right, but it is, it's, how bizarre is it 
     
     
  
 
 
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     that for a while at least you were able to, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     and it's just, you know, I'm sure it would actually 
     
     
  
 
 
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     be fascinating and it's the sort of thing 
     
     
  
 
 
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     they're never gonna talk about, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     but it would be fascinating to get Jeff Williams 
     
     
  
 
 
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     to explain it, you know, like, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     and I'm sure that it's a fascinating explanation 
     
     
  
 
 
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     of the different supply chain paths 
     
     
  
 
 
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     that engraved versus non-engraved ones take. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     You know, in theory, engraving should take longer, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     but, you know. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Well, it's, in my mind, if you just go the dummy route 
     
     
  
 
 
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     on the supply chain analysis here, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     it would probably be that there's a certain amount 
     
     
  
 
 
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     set aside for engraving because they go 
     
     
  
 
 
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     to a facility for engraving. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And it's like if you're gonna get 'em engraved, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     they come from this pool, which is usually less purchased, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     people probably buy far more without engraving, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     and then, you know, those are still in stock. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     So that's probably, it just, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     the simplistic way of looking at it. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Do you-- - By the way, I just tried, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I just tried to zero with space, does not work, so. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Sorry for anybody looking to do that. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Do you get your stuff engraved when it's offered? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Very, very rarely. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Literally the only thing I can, I currently own, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I have in the past, and like for my wife maybe, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     gotten her a phone engraved, you know. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I think maybe even her current phone is. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     But the only thing I currently own is an AirPods Pro case 
     
     
  
 
 
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     with an emoji on it, and the only reason I did that 
     
     
  
 
 
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     is 'cause I know which one is my current one 
     
     
  
 
 
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     and which one is mine and not an Apple review unit 
     
     
  
 
 
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     as they come and go, and that way I know, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     you know, that one's mine. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Because there's, I have a lot of AirPods around here, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     either that I've purchased or when Apple, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     drops new ones and I review a unit, it's sitting here, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     and then I don't know which one's which. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - All right, I would like to get my stuff engraved, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     but I can never decide what to get engraved on it. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:05:46
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     And then I realize-- 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - A paralysis of choice. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it really, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I will sit there in front of the engraving form 
     
     
  
 
 
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     for a very long period of time, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     and then I'll think, well, this isn't getting me anywhere. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     And then a sensible person would think, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     this isn't getting me anywhere, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I'll just order no engraved and be done with it. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     But what I'll do is I'll say, I'll think to myself, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I need to get up and walk around. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Maybe I'll take a walk, you know, put my coat on, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:06:14
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     I'm gonna go pick up some bread or something like that, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     just to clear my head so I can think about this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:06:21
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     And then I realize, you know, it's like, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     I'm doing all this, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:06:24
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     and taking a walk to clear your head, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:06:27
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     get some ideas, that's all well and good and it works, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     but it's like, I'm not doing it for like, 
     
     
  
 
 
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     something clever to write about, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:06:34
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     I'm doing it to figure out what should I get engraved. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:06:38
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     - No, try to slice an editorial Gordian knot. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     You're trying to figure out whether to do the rock emoji 
     
     
  
 
 
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     or the okay emoji. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     - Well, for me it'd be so super boring. 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Should I just get like, JG or should I just get Gruber? 
     
     
  
 
 
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     Or should I go with that? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:06:54
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     They do give you a star emoji. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:06:57
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     Hmm. - Right, right. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:06:59
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     - Maybe just Gruber. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:02
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     - Yeah, why are we the way that we are? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:04
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     I don't understand this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:05
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     - Right, and then I would just wish, it makes me wish, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:07
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     I was like, I gotta wish they would just charge $25 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:10
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     to engrave it, 'cause then I would say, ah, forget it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:13
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     - Exactly, exactly. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:15
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     Free is the worst, you know? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:17
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     Charge me a dollar, because then I have an excuse 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:19
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     to be like, ah, I'll just put the extra dollar. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:21
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     - I'm not for like, AirPods Pro, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:24
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     I ordered AirPods Pro last year and I got 'em, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:28
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     and it's like, I'm not worried about like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:31
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     oh, if I get my name engraved on the case, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:33
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     then the resale value is no, I'm not gonna, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:36
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     who's gonna buy a used pair of AirPods Pro? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:38
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     - Well, people do, but yeah, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:39
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     I would never sell 'em personally. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:41
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     - I'm not, so it has nothing to do with that, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:44
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     it's just pure indecision. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:46
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     Ah, terrible. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:48
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     And again, and then there's something to me 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:53
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     with the AirPods Max, where it's like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:55
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     there's a little bit of an asymmetry there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:57
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     Now, they're permanently asymmetrical, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:07:59
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     'cause the controls are only on the right, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:01
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     and the engravings on the left. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:03
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     Anyway, paralysis, I don't know. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:06
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     I don't know what I would do. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:07
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     But anyway, you can't get 'em by Christmas, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:08
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     so it's no worries. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:10
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     You and I had very similar thoughts. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:14
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     I always, I say this all the time, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:16
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     it's always a relief, it's like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:19
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     I don't wanna go on and on about how heavy these things are, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:22
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     and then I read all the other reviews 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:23
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     and nobody says anything, and it's like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:25
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     maybe this is completely normal, and-- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:27
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     - Or maybe, yeah, yeah, exactly. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:29
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     Maybe I just have a weak neck. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:30
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     - Yeah. (laughs) 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:31
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     - Let's go down with eight. - Right. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:08:35
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     I think President Trump has actually 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:36
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     called people pencil decks. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:37
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     Remember, that was-- 
     
     
  
 
 
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     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right, right, yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - That was big in the '80s, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to call somebody a pencil neck geek. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, there, is there something wrong with my neck? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, I'm on the frat crowd, yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - I don't know, it's, but these are heavy headphones, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in my opinion. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - They're about 100 grams. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I put 'em on my kitchen scale. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:08:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I have a fairly accurate one I use for baking and whatnot, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I put 'em on there, and they're like 385 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or 89 grams or something, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which is about 100 grams heavier 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     than a pair of Beats Studio, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which, obviously, sure, there are heavier headphones 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in between somewhere, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I do believe that's on the higher end of the scale. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, and my, I have the Bose QuietComfort 35 IIs, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I guess Bose has another one, a 700, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which I haven't looked at recently. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, I just don't, I'm not enough of a traveler 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and not enough of a, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm not a Marco Arman who's gonna collect headphones, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but the Bose are 200 and some, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     so it's a little bit over 100 grams, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you feel it, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's also, it's not just 100 grams. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's the fact that it's 100 extra or 50 extra 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     each on each ear cup, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:09:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'Cause the weight is clearly all on the ear cups. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:09:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - But again, I'm not saying it's a problem, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I thought you put it pretty well. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, I thought your review where you were just like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     look, if you don't like heavy headphones, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     don't buy these, that's it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it's not like it's a problem, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I also think you nailed it where it's, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I think I sort of fall into that category 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     as somebody who doesn't follow the headphone industry. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You know, I get a pair I like, and that's it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I was a little surprised at how heavy they were, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and maybe I shouldn't have been based on the fact 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that they are really high end in terms of the drivers 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the quality they're trying to produce. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:10:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - But it's, yeah, it's, I mean, I even put it in my headline 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause I wanted to be clever, but it, again, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm not saying this is a reason not to buy it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     not saying it's a product failure, but hmm, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     this is something to think about. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, I think, so it's sort of that same feeling 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that you get when you buy, I don't know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:10:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a really high quality pen, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like a really high quality pen, very, very nice. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We're talking almost as, almost decorative, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like it's usable, and in fact, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     maybe one of the best pens made for writing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     simply because they spent so much money making it 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the craftsmanship is high and all of that stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But then you use it and you're like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     do I really want to scribble with this thing all day? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'Cause it's pretty heavy, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's kind of like that, where you know that the heaviness 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is a sign of overall craftsmanship and quality, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which heaviness sometimes is. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Sometimes it's not, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I remember this is a little tiny anecdote, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but like back when I used to sell cameras, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     one of the big things we'd do was people would come in 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with these sort of knockoffs of Canon SLRs 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that they would get sold by a mail order usually. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like it'd be like, hey, mail order this SLR, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they would get it, and it's a plastic body 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that has the shape of an SLR, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:11:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but in fact, there's no real prism. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's just a viewfinder, you know, rangefinder on top. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then in its complete plastic body, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it technically does work, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it's essentially a fixed lens pinhole camera, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like it technically does, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you could put film in it in the whole bit, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but they think they got something special for a deal. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But then if you crack those things open, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     what it is is it's an empty plastic shell 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that's one step above a disposable camera, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     only because it can be reused, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then in the bottom, they put a slab of lead 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to make it feel like pig metal or whatever. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They put a slab in the bottom of it to make it feel hefty. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So when they pick it up, they're like, oh, this is great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This feels just like a Canon, you know? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it's like really, it's like Canoon or whatever, right, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on the label. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it happened all the time. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was crazy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was this thing I had no idea about 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     until I started working in that business. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I think there's some products out there that are that way. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You could see them. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They pop up now and then, and you could tell, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:12:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hey, there's absolutely no way, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     no reason for this to weigh the way it does, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because they're trying to impart some sense of quality 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in this, but in reality, you open it up, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's like, oh, it's just a weight in here 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to make it seem like it's good, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And there's physical, actual, still products that do that, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but then there's also products that do it metaphorically, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where you're like, oh, wow, this has the feel of quality, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it's not really quality. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I don't feel that these fall into that category at all. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I actually do feel that they are the weight that they are, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     specifically because of the materials that were chosen, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the materials were chosen specifically 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to impart a feeling of quality. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it's not that they were, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they've got a slab of pig metal in each ear cup. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They're just heavy because they were like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hey, what's the best material we could possibly use? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the weight consideration is way down the list, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     way down the list on these particular pair. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, making the cups out of unibody aluminum, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:13:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know if unibody counts, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it's the outer shell other than the foam thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is just one big, round piece of aluminum. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Again, I don't know-- - Yeah, it's a hunk of metal. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - It's a hunk of aluminum. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And here on the East Coast, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in a pretty chilly week in Philadelphia, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it is kind of cool, literally cool, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and figuratively cool, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that when I'd reach up to touch them, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they were very cool to the touch, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which is not something I'm used to with headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I'm sure there's a whole bunch of high-end, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     German brands of headphones that are made of metal 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that I don't own. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But for these, just sort of wear 'em 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     while walking around the house, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it was really weird to reach up 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and feel this ice-cool aluminum. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And again, they don't make your head cool 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because your cup, you're, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm not trying to say like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hey, your head's gonna be cold 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because there's aluminum cups. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:14:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The aluminum doesn't touch your head, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it really feels premium. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's like very futuristic too, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like where it's so smooth 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and like aluminum eggs on your ears. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They're very organically shaped. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:15:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, yeah, they are. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I do think that they have a, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they have a interesting shape 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on the horizontal axis, I guess you'd call it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like outwards from the head, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because many, many headphones out there, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     premium headphones, I should say, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     have a fairly large or deep cavity. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that is a sort of a physics thing, partially. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They need space for the air to move around 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and for a bigger driver and all of that, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it is, somebody brought this up, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and this is obviously not everybody's use case 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:15:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and maybe a fairly minimal use case, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it does typify how these are different 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     from other headphones in the shape, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which is that because they're so flat on the outer side 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and so close to the head, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they're actually extremely comfortable to lay down on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like somebody asked me in a Twitter, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hey, I wear noise canceling headphones to sleep, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like I put 'em on and I put white noise on or whatever. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I'm like, okay, you know, I get it, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Maybe you live in a noisy place, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or you're next to the L, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you're like, this is the only way I can get to sleep, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or you have anxiety or whatever, and it helps. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But he's like, I lay down on 'em, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause how are they to lay down on? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I know this is an edge case, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it's funny to me that it actually typifies 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     how different they are, because they are extremely flat 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and lozenge-shaped, and that lower profile 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     does actually make them easier to lay down on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And while I don't think I'll be sleeping with them on 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in a bed, I thought to myself, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     how many times have I been uncomfortable on a plane 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:16:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because I've been trying to lean up against the bulkhead 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or against a seat rest or turn, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and rest against a seat rest as best I can 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in an economy seat or whatever. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it clanks against the thing, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it makes my neck crick, and I can't really, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I need 'em on, because I can't sleep with the roar 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and everybody farting around me and all this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so I'm like, it makes some sense 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that the shape, the way they are, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it actually is a sort of departure, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a left turn from the shape of a lot of premium headphones, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which typically look like Lobot a lot. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You know? - Yeah, right, right, right. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:17:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - I brought up the Lobot picture a couple of times, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I'm like, yeah, see, those look cool. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Lobot looks really cool, but it's like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     yeah, he's got all these blinking lights, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and there's a lot of articulation, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and there's a lot of levels, just layers of stuff, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and these are just smooth, you know? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:17:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The smoothness, the egg shape, the kind of flatness of them, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think a lot of it, all of it adds up 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to a nice differentiation in design. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think it's not as evident until you really bring up a list 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you kind of, I open a few tabs of all of the, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I really, this is probably another part of this discussion, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I'm really not interested in comparing these 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     against non-noise cancellation headphones, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause I think that's just a, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if you're getting into non-NC studio monitor headphones, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's just a different conversation, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I don't feel that it's fair or necessary 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to have that conversation personally. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm sure people will have that conversation, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     oh, let me compare them against my $6,000 reference headphones 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with no NC, you know, direct path of the audio 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     straight through with no processing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's just not that, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But if you open up all of the NC headphones 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that are in this price range, or even more expensive, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     some of them are, or a little bit less, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:18:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but certainly not cheap, it's a departure, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a great departure in ID from all of those headphones, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which are largely black and brown, some silver, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with a lot of bulk and a lot of, you know, very, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for lack of a better term, 90s Sony design aesthetic, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know what I mean? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Headphones are really stuck in that universe a lot, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I think Beats did a lot to change that conversation 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in that they're like, hey, headphones are a fashion accessory 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and certainly there are other brands. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm not saying that only Apple affiliated brands 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     have done this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Skullcandy, it springs to mind, they're cheap headphones, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but they changed the conversation around how they look. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But of course, of course, of course, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you cannot talk about any of this without saying 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that the Apple earbuds really changed the game 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     as far as headphones becoming a thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that people looked at and cared about versus just used, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     right, and they certainly, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:19:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if you had those white earbuds with the dangly thread, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     people knew what you were up to 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and they knew that you had an iPod 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and that was the status symbol, for sure. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I think these are in that same conversation, you know? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:20:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I agree, I mean, and again, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I have not done anything even vaguely 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like a deep dive on noise canceling headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I know people love the Sony, is it MX series, QX? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know what the hell they are. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But there's a Sony one that's in that 200-some price range 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that people really love, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where they say the noise canceling is great 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the audio quality is superior than the Bose, 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:20:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I got the Bose, my family makes fun of me 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause I actually bought them at the airport. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:20:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - You're the guy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You're the guy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:20:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You're the reason that they sell them at the airport. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
	 00:20:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I forget where we were going like two or three years ago 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I got through security. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I forget what the story was, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I had broken a pair, the headband of a pair 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like a year or two earlier 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I'd been putting off getting a new pair 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I was like, "To hell with this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "I'm not going on this flight 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "without noise canceling headphones." 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I knew there was just your typical airport place 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where you buy Bose headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:21:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I did quick Google, like, "Well, what are they? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "What do they cost at Amazon?" 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it was like the same price. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was like $270. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I'm like, "So who cares?" 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm buying them there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - It wasn't like the $70 sushi, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was basically the same price, yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:21:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was a perfectly fair price to pay 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for a pair of Bose Quay Comfort II 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and my wife and son still do not let me hear the end of it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But once you have them, it just drives me crazy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:21:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I wrote my review. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I often use it if I'm writing something 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or just reading, just reading a book, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I will put my noise canceling headphones on, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     have them play nothing just to have the noise canceling 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because it is an overall better experience 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to have headphones on playing nothing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but canceling out the, to me, rather unpleasant white noise 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of an airplane cabin than to sit there and listen to it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So what do you get? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You get better audio when you're playing nothing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but just have more like closer to pure silence 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but the physical discomfort of wearing the headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I will take that trade off any day of the week. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then if you actually are watching a movie 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or listening to music or listening to a podcast, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's almost unusable to me not to have noise canceling 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause you have to turn the volume up so high, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:22:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's like you should be getting a warning 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that you're listening to it too loud 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to hear it over the cabin noise. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I'm a fan but I'm not an expert 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on the 20 different brands of them. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Doing it in the winter was pretty interesting. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     My office here at the house has pretty loud heat 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     when the heat's on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And especially, it's a little bit of serendipity 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and a little bit of maybe just, well, it makes sense 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that the vent was placed over there 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the windows were over here. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I just sat down closer to where it's noisier. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     What else did I test it with? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The oven, so like when Amy was baking something 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and turned on the, what do you call the thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that takes the exhaust out of an oven? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The-- - The hood. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - The hood, yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Oh, oh, no, the vent, yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:23:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - The vent, you turn this on and it sucks up the stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it's good white noise. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's like, boy, they work, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and that's the best I could do, you know what I mean? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm not going on an airplane ride 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in the 24 hours I've had 'em. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right, right. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Noise canceling seems great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, it's good, it's good. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, I do believe that there's a couple of things, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, a couple of natural advantages 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that it has over something like an in-ear. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, an in-ear, you're fighting with an in-ear, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, I'm talking like versus an over-ear headphone, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you're fighting the fact that the in-ear has a natural seal. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it already blocks more noise than an over-ear, typically, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because of the foam and the gap between the foam and the ear 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and kind of naturally, you're gonna hear more sound. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So the in-ear already has a better natural seal. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:24:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I would guess that just comparing it, say, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause I have QuietComfort 2s, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which is, they've traveled all over the world with me, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and do very well in an airplane setting. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They have less hiss and low-frequency noise 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     than a Beats Studio. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I have not tried the Sony MX series, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which everybody, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a lot of people swear by over the Bose. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I can't speak to personal experience there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But they definitely, the QC2s are way better 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     than the Beats Studio for me, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for noise cancellation purposes. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And sound is more neutral, you know, too, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which I actually prefer. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But the AirPods Pro, obviously, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     their noise cancellation, quite good for an earbud. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, pretty stellar for an earbud. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I would consider them a little less than the QC2 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in terms of efficacy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I consider the AirPods Max to be above both of those. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Right, so I think that's the scale for me, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is that the QC2s are good, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but the AirPods Max do provide superior noise cancellation 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:25:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in terms of blocking, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     low frequency and sharp sounds. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Sharp sounds, especially, are very hard 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for noise cancellation because they're bursts of sound 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that kind of pierce the NC white noise frequency. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But the Max does a better job at sharp sound stuff, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like clinking glasses, snapping fingers, stuff like that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I found it does a little better job. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I've been pretty happy with the noise cancellation. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Efficiency, whatever efficacy that you, you know, of these. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think they're good. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think they dull a lot of rustling 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and a lot of, you know, kind of mid frequency sound very, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     very well, which is a lot of the stuff that distracts, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, typically. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Just the low hum of life around you, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it kind of cuts that out pretty well. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - The other thing, I tested the first day I had them, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I wore them a lot, and I actually had to run out 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to get some groceries. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so rather than wear my usual AirPods Pro 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:26:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to listen to podcasts while I do this, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I wore the AirPods Max, which I ordinarily wouldn't do, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I realized that they do kind of work. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It wasn't freezing cold, I don't know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it was like in the 30s here in Philly. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it was sort of like, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like having earmuffs on, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     rather than wear a hat, it was like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "Hey, my ear's aren't getting cold." 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:27:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But then I realized it is, you know, it was like, huh. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then all of a sudden I had to take them off, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     put my mask on, then put them back on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yes, definitely not as convenient there, same thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - But once, you know, when I leave, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't take the mask off, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's like I mask up in the house, leave, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I don't have to take the mask off 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     while I'm in the store, I'm not like taking free samples 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or anything like that, so, you know. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But when you're using earbuds, you don't have to, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you don't have to worry about which order you mask up. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - It is valid, it's valid to point out. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:27:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, I ran into the same thing, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I was running to take a package to the store, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but because I live in a driving city, not a walking city, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't wear my mask in my car, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I don't wear my mask when I leave the house, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it obviously, yes, you're probably not gonna be driving, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or most people are not gonna be driving around 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with these things on, but just as a test, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and because I'm trying to get as much 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     listen time as possible, I wore them out. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And yeah, you have to do the juggling thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where you lift them and put a mask loop on 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and lift the other side and put a mask loop on, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and all of that stuff to get it on and off. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - I've mentioned this many times, I write about it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I don't know, maybe it's me, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     maybe it's a neurotic aspect of my personality, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but for years, I mean, going back to the wired earbuds era, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I've always listened to podcasts when I'm out running errands 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and living in the city, I've run most, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     almost all errands on foot, so it's not like I'm driving 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     while listening to something with headphones on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:28:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And whenever I check out, or if I'm at the butcher counter 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I'm ordering some meat, I take the buds out of my ear, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or at least one of them out of my ear, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     even if my audio is paused as a social signal 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to the person I'm dealing with, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that you've got my audio attention. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the conundrum I've been in since AirPods Pro come out 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is that I hear better with my podcast paused 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and transparency on than I do if I take one out. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the whole taking one out thing, like the problem era-- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - For those of you listening under 30, just wait. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - The problem era of my life was the regular AirPods era, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because what do you do with the one you take out, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like now you've got a delicate little thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - You're gonna set it down on a dirty counter, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:29:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or no, you're not gonna do that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Put it in your pocket, and then the sensors get covered 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it starts playing, it's just awkward. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     What do I do with it? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - You're, exactly, exactly. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like my coat pocket, I feel, is clean enough 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where I would do it, but you can put it in there 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it thinks it's in a, I don't know, it gets confused, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     thinks your ear canal is, well, okay, his ears got bigger, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but start playing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So transparency, technically, is a huge win. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It actually does, it is a superpower. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think we're such a visual species 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that we tend to think of augmented reality 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     as being primarily visual, but we as a technology 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     civilization are clearly ahead of the game on the audio side. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, these are augmented reality. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And for me, again, in my hearing, I get an annual physical, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     my hearing, I get two thumbs up every year 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:30:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with the hearing test, you hear the beeps, beep, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     left, right, you know, so my hearing is good. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I definitely, in like a grocery store 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with that white noise, background noise of a grocery store, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I hear better with transparency, talking to the clerk 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or the deli person than I do taking them out. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it looks like I'm listening to music or a podcast, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     right, like I wish that there was some, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know what it would be, like a flashing light 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     obviously isn't going to happen, but like-- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - A red light, you're on air now with me. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:31:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - We're on the line, caller, welcome. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, like a red T, like transparency mode, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     this person is paying attention to you. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - But it's way worse with over ears, right, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like the whole social signal with over ears, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's like fuck you, don't talk to me, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or pardon my French, but you know, don't talk to me, 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:31:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - That's what I look like going to the grocery store, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:31:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I know, and I wanted to like, I love this story, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you ever hear this story about the card, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know if he still carries them, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but that Steve Martin carries around cards that say, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like when people come up and they're like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hey, you're Steve Martin, can I have your autograph? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     He has these cards in his pocket that he gives out, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's a card that just says, this card certifies 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that you have met Steve Martin. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then the transaction's over, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     he doesn't have to sign anything, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and people, you know, they've got, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's charming and funny, and oh so Steve Martin. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, they've got a memento, yeah, a physical memento, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's so much better even than a autograph 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on some random slip of paper or whatever. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right, I felt like I needed to take cards around 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that say I'm listening to you in transparency mode 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with these headphones, and you've got 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     my full audio attention. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I really felt like I needed it yesterday, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or the day before when I had these over-the-ear cans on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's like, I want you to know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     A, I want you to know I hear you loud and clear, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:32:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but B, also, I really kinda need to test these 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in the next 24 hours, and this is it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - I'm not just that guy. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:33:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - I did, when I checked out, I couldn't do it though. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I put 'em down around my neck, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and that's when I realized that if you leave them, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if you take 'em off your ears long enough, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they stop playing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Which brings us to the fact that they don't have 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     an on/off switch, which is a very Apple-like design choice. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, and I think there's some confusion about that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I know some of the early reviewers 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or early looks that were published, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     people seemed confused about that 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and thought that the only way to stop them 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     from draining essentially at full power, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, like they're on, is to put them in the case. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Which does, if you say, if you assume 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that that's the only way to turn them off fully, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that is kind of annoying, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Hey, I gotta use this case at all times 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:33:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     unless I want my headphones to drain, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     completely over the course of 10 hours or whatever. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But that's not true. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So the case is, it puts them into what they call 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     an ultra low power mode, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Which is, the way I compare this is 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if you take the headphones off, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     actually, let me run it through, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause this is a couple things that I picked up. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So if you take the headphones off, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     immediately they stop playing, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Just ear detection or head detection. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The sensor inside says, hey, this isn't on an ear, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm gonna stop. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's an AirPods thing, all the AirPods do that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Then after about 15 seconds or so, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they actually shut down the connection 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     between the device that it was connected to 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So that saves a ton more power, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'Cause it says, hey, I'm no longer connected to this phone. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm just gonna go, you know, you're not playing anything 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     from the phone right now, I'm not on your head, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and in fact, maybe I'm still, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause remember the H1s have accelerometers in them. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It says, I'm gonna chill out and cut off this connection, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:34:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause that's using up power that's not necessary. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then I believe there's one more stage 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of sort of hibernation that is not, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, it's essentially what you would call 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a low power mode. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so the difference between that state 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and what you're talking about with the case, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the way that I've come to think of it is that it's like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm asleep versus I'm in, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     versus I'm in carbonite, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I'm frozen in carbonite. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you're frozen in carbonite, you're alive, but barely. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Isn't that the phrase? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Is he alive? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Barely, I don't know. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I can't remember. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's the basic states. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like it's carbonite frozen, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the only sensor that's on is, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is this in the case or not? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's pretty much the only sensor that's alive 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in the headphones when it's in a case, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which is why it can last so long once it's in there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's obviously just a magnet, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That says, hey, yo, you're in this case. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Just like the iPad Smart Cover. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But then when you take them out and like you wear them 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:35:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then you take them off and you set them down, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they go into a state that, yes, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     we'll use more battery than is in the case, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it's not the same thing as on, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And this whole disambiguation of the term on or off 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is very Apple. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like what does on even mean in a world 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with low power chips, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like you can see the conversation, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the philosophical conversation happening, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     In the audio department at Apple where they're like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but what does on even mean? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:36:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You know, what is off, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I think that's like where some of the confusion 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     came from, which is too surprising. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you make assumptions that, hey, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the case puts them into the lowest power mode possible 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and there's no off switch, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     maybe they don't get turned off until you put them 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in the case, but that's not technically true. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There's shades of off there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, and it's also the exact sort of thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that by its nature is extremely difficult to write about 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     within 24 or 36 hours of getting them 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:36:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if you're going to spend most of your waking hours 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in those 24 hours using them. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:37:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So here's what I did. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I actually, I should have written it down. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I believe when I went to put them down last night, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I put them down outside the case 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I think they were at 81% 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I just looked right now as you were speaking, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they're at 74%. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So don't quote me on that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was somewhere around 80. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So maybe they lost 5% of their power 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     over the last 14 hours. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - So I could give you a little bit more accuracy on that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     See, I ran essentially the same test. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so they, I think about 4 p.m. to 4.30 p.m. yesterday, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I had charged them full and then unplugged them. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then I used them for maybe a handful of minutes 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then after work I had to cook dinner 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and all of that stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I actually didn't use them much last night. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:37:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I actually took them off, set them on my desk 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     around 5 p.m. and left them there all night. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So that's over 12 hours, almost 14, 15 hours, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Or almost 20 hours. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Now, when we started this call, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which was let's say about 40 minutes ago, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I put them on and started using them for this call. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm using them right now, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     To listen to this call or to listen to you. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they are at 96%. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it's whatever power they're using overnight, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they're not on in the traditional sense. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right, right. - Or sorry, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     whatever the power they're using laying on a desk 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or off your head, but not in a case, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I did not put them in the case. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so I think that there's, that's a pretty easy tell 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that they're definitely not on, on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - All right, let me take a break 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and thank our first sponsor. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's our good friends at Mack Weldon. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I did not cook the books on this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The fix is not in, but I didn't even know 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that they were gonna be sponsoring this episode 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:38:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     until I came down and I was already dressed. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm wearing a Mack Weldon waffle shirt 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then on top of it, a Mack Weldon hoodie. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     As I record this read, I do, I wear their stuff and love it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     When it comes to holiday gifting for guys, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they've got a lot of stuff and you've got time, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if you order, as you listen to this, when it's new, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you could definitely get some stuff delivered in time 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for the holidays. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Mack Weldon sells men's basics that are guaranteed 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to keep everyone on your list comfortable. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Their stuff is great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I love the style of it, I love the fit of it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I love the, it lasts. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't even know which of my stuff from them 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is my older stuff from a year or two back 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and which is the stuff I've bought recently. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They started with stuff like the under the clothes stuff, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like hoodies, or not hoodies, underwear and undershirts 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and socks, but they have everything. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They've got polos, they've got hoodies. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The hoodie I'm wearing right now, I absolutely love. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:39:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's one of my favorites. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     My son has the same hoodie in a slightly smaller size. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     He loves it too. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Really, it's just great stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Just really, really great stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Don't even get me started on the slippers. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Merlin and I, a couple episodes ago, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     told you all about the slippers, but the slippers, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, for God's sake, they're just the best. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Anyway, they've also got a loyalty program. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is so easy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     All you have to do is buy stuff 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it just puts you into the loyalty program. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Once you get to level one, you get free shipping for life 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and when you reach level two, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which all you have to do is spend 200 bucks. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you buy $200 worth of stuff, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you just automatically get into level two 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then from that point, you get 20% off every order 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for the next year. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's a great deal. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You don't have to do anything to qualify. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     All you have to do is just buy stuff 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then the more you buy, the cheaper the stuff gets. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They've got a great guarantee. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you don't like your first pair of underwear, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you can just keep 'em. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:40:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Don't send 'em back. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Do not send back your dissatisfying underwear, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but they will refund you, no questions asked. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So here's what you can do. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Get 20% off your first order 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     by going to mackweldon.com/talkshow 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and enter the promo code talk show. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's Mack, M-A-C-K, Weldon, W-L-E-L-D-O-N dot com. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Mackweldon.com/talkshow with promo code talk show 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you can get 20% off. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     All right, we gotta talk about this case 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     before we get off there, Puds Max. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The case. (laughing) 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I know people were dunking on it immediately, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it wasn't until I saw it in person 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that I realized how much, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I don't know, I don't know. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     My joke is that it's like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know which half of the bikini emoji it looks like. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Does it look like a butt from behind? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Or does it look like a bikini top from the front? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:41:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's a funny looking thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's obviously that they designed the headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Here's my guess as to how this happened. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They designed the headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They made the headphones they wanted to make 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then they were like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     well, how do we put these in a case? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then they designed a case around the headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And if the case turned out looking a little funny, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     well, that's just it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They're not gonna make the headphones different 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     just to make the case look better, I guess. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I did not draw the comparison to the Duo dock, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the MagSafe Duo dock. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You did in your review. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's like when that part of your review, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it was like boom, light bulb, yes, that's the problem. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The MagSafe Duo charging dock 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     feels like a cheap jack piece of, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if it cost 50 bucks, it would be like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     yeah, fine, I'll buy one. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:42:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     50 bucks, that's a cool thing to take in my travel case. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     For $140 or $130 without the $20 charger it requires, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it just doesn't feel commensurate with the price. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It feels like a $50 charger. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Even that thing has the redeeming quality 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of having a couple of pieces of nice aluminum in it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The mounts for the watch and the magnet ring for the phone, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     at least those scream like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hey, there's some Apple stuff in here. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Whereas this is, I don't know what this is. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You know what it reminds me of, John? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:43:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It reminds me of when you don't have a paper towel 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you wrap your sandwich in a napkin. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Where you know a paper towel is more durable. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's got some heft to it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, I'm not saying that everybody wraps 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     your sandwich in a paper towel, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but let's say you're gonna pick it up 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:43:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you're gonna eat it and it's a little sloppy, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's got some juice on it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you're like, I wanna wrap something 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     around the bottom of this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like you made it at home. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like you wrap a Subway wrapper 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     around the bottom of the sandwich and eat the top 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if you're walking and talking. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     When you wrap a paper towel around it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you're like, this paper towel's gonna last. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's gonna absorb, it's gonna soak some stuff up. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's gonna be chill. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You wrap a napkin around it, you got holes in that thing, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you got fibers coming off. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's what this looks like. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It looks like you took the headphones 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and wrapped them in a napkin and it got holes in it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, oh, hey, I just need to wrap this 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in something real quick and just take it down the block 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and give my neighbor some chocolate chip cookies. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I just need to wrap it in this napkin. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then by the time you get there, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the napkin's barely holding on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's what this looks like. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, why? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Why go through all the effort to produce 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     what is probably one of the more over-engineered, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     precision-machined pieces of headphone gear I've ever seen 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then wrap it in this? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:44:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's honestly insulting to the product itself. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't get it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's really awkward. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - I think a couple of the other reviewers 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     have mentioned this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I haven't caught up on all the YouTube reviews, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but when I unboxed it, my son was here, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and he was keenly interested. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     My son is probably more of a headphone fan than I am. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - What kid is it, John? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We all loved headphones 'cause they shut our parents up. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - I know. (laughs) 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Well, but now in addition to shutting up his parents, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it also connects with his friends. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it's, from my era, it's a combination headphones 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and telephone. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - And telephone, exactly, 'cause I got Discord 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and he's talking to his friends and all that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - So he's, of all the stuff that's come in, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     he was more keenly interested in these 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     than anything recently, I think. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Although the M1 Mac definitely interested him. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:45:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But he couldn't believe that the case 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     wasn't part of the packaging. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:46:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's weird because there is packaging around the case. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There is a typical white, not onion paper, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but Apple's version of onion paper around it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But you take that off and it feels like 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     there's just this second level of wrapping 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     around the headphones, and it's like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "No, no, that's the case." 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they have a soft touch material inside. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm sure it's not suede. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There's no way they're gonna ship leather, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     actual leather to everybody, both cost-wise 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the fact that some people don't wanna buy leather stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's some kind of artificial suede soft touch thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's not bad to the touch, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but that outer material is either identical to 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or might as well be the kissing cousin 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of that rubbery stuff that they make 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like iPad covers out of, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:46:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the Duo charging dock in particular. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, "Yeah, that's the same stuff." 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's not a bad material, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it is not a premium material. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And there is no doubt in my mind, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     even if you're a, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like I'm thinking about how I travel, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     when I go on an airplane. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's not like I fill up my backpack 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or briefcase or whatever bag I'm taking with me. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I've switched to a briefcase, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but right before the pandemic hit. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I was like, "Why did I spend all this money 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "on a leather briefcase?" 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I don't go anywhere. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm not putting unwrapped candy bars in there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't have potted plants in there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, you know, it's computer stuff 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and books and magazines. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it's all clean stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But yet somehow my hard case for my bows 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is kind of beat up, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:47:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's just the nature of travel, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can be as neat as you want 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and put clean stuff in a bag, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but you're stuffing it into overhead bins. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You're stuffing it under the seat. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - It happens. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It just picks up battle scars over time. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - And I'm a careful person. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like other people may not be so careful, you know? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, it picks up scars. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This stuff, especially the non-space gray colors, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     there's just no way it's gonna stay clean looking. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Space gray maybe will take a beating 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and maybe will look better with the beating, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but like the blue and the green and the silver, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's like, it just does not seem meant for that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like there's a certain part of Apple 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that just, as practical as they mostly are, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I think the headphones themselves 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     are very practically designed for the real world. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The case, it just is not. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's not a case, it's a pouch, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:48:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, exactly. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - And it's $550. - I don't know. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is, it's just insane. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And there's no justifying it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm not gonna dance around trying to go like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     oh, well, maybe this is clearly, clearly 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     one of those things where at the last minute, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they're like, shit, did anybody decide? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Did anybody think about a case? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Because like, I don't know. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like the product shots show people holding it 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     by the handle and all of this stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Like a purse, right? - I don't know. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - You know, it's like-- - Yeah, like a purse. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think that it would have been better 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for them to ship it without a case, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because you know what that tells people? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This is for the home, and if you're gonna travel with it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     we'll come up with something for you, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or you can fit it into your life, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Put it in a pouch, put it in a bag, put it in whatever, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, you know, put it in, even a drawstring bag, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a lot of premium headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like a lot of studio monitor headphones 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     come with a drawstring bag, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Some of them come with something fancier, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but a lot of them come with like a, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:49:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a nice kind of pouch, drawstring bag type thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that either you use because you are that kind of person, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or you put in the box and never ever take out, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They would have been better off 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to go with that kind of situation than something half-assed, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because I do believe it lowers the, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it lowers the whole product, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It doesn't elevate the product, it lowers the product. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Everything about the packaging and execution of this thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     screams expensive, high-quality headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The box has that lovely emboss, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the headband has this mesh 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that nobody else would think to execute, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because it's like, who would think to do that, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That you can't, you know, that's hard to do, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     materials-wise, to attach it with very little glue 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and very little attachment, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to bond it in the way that they did. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The pistons on the headphones that extend them, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's not some cheap like rail system, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's like a car piston that slides out. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:50:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     All of this stuff screams like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     we worked on this a long time and it was hard, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and here it is. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then the case screams like, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     here's this shit too. (laughs) 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right, the piston feels like you could use the piston 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for extending the cups out, further out, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to accommodate a larger, smaller head, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     pull 'em out, push 'em back in for fit. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The pistons alone feel like you could teach 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     half a semester of industrial design at a university 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     by studying the piston design alone. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's that interesting, materials, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's like, how does this, it feels magical, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Because it doesn't click, it doesn't have steps, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it does, it holds its shape. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, will it over time? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Again, who knows, you know, three, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     come back to me in three years and see if it still is tight. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But yeah, super premium. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Just the pistons alone, very, very premium 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:51:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in a way that just blows away the Bose that I have, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which are fine, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They click, you know, and they feel way sturdier 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     than the Bose Quiet Comforts of old, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which used to snap after 18 months. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, guaranteed to snap 18 months after you fry 'em. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:52:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - You know, it's like, but the case, Jesus. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know what they're thinking. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Me neither, it's almost not-- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - And then the worst part is you kinda need it 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to put 'em in the hibernate, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, yeah, exactly. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, if you would've had a nice shell case 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that said, hey, this is a little bulky on the case side, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it's the nest that your headphones live in, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:52:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - They go in there to hibernate and you keep them safe 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and they're protected. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, imagine, like the Bose QCs have that hard shell, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, deal that zips up. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:52:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Or I think it's like a soft hard shell now, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's like a combination floppy thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But something like that, even in the same exterior material, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I could see the complaint being, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     oh man, this is gonna get dirty, but hey, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's a safe home for my $500 or $550 headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I get it, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That makes sense. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This doesn't make any sense. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Because it leaves the most delicate part 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of what you would think to be the headphone exposed. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like the material, sure, if you don't want 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     these aluminum things to scratch, I get it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But at the same time, who cares, who gives a crap, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The headband though, it's a mesh. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Like we're gonna stick it in there 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with my pens and pocket knives 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I forget to close it all the way or whatever. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, protect that, you know? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, it's weird, it's weird, it's just all weird. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right, like you could get a scratch on the ear cups 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's a scratch. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like getting a scratch on the back of your phone, 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:53:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, you know, people might care, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I don't wanna get a hole poked in the mesh, you know? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right, right. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:53:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Anyway, I'm still not quite sure what to make of it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm glad, I know, I guess we, you know, 550 bucks. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is premium and it's a bad year to come out 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with premium $550 headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, times are tough. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, yeah. - The world is a mess. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But, you know, there is this whole world of high-end audio 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and $550 isn't even the highest of the high by far. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm glad Apple is making, shooting 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for super premium headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And same way with HomePod, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's like, I know, you know, people are, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a lot of people think, you know, the reason Apple is behind 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in market share on home talk-tier dingus devices 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is that HomePod was their only standalone device 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     until they came out with the Mini 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it started at 300 bucks. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Or maybe it was 350 when it first came out. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:54:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that's a lot more than all these $50 pucks 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that everybody else makes. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I'm glad they make HomePod that sounds so amazing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I really am. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it's, you know, there seems to be a bit of a gap 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in price between AirPods Pro and AirPods Max 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where there could be another set of headphones in between. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - In between, yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's a pretty big, I mean, they shot for the outside edge 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     before the middle edge, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Now it is gap filling, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You have people who are obviously buying 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and Apple can see obviously very well 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that people buy Beats, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they know how many people buy them 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and they know that that price is, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in the middle of the $300 bracket. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And, you know, they're still benefiting from that 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in that they own Beats and all of that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But that also proves out the need and the desire for people 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to have something in that universe 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that supports the most advanced features 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:55:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that Apple has shipped in any audio devices so far, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Which to me is really the point of these headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's not, you know, at the beginning of this conversation, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I was like, hey, I'm not really interested 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in comparing these to non-NC headphones 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because by nature, anytime you introduce processing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     into the audio path, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's no longer a pristine audio device, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's just, that's not about that transmitting 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the pure fidelity of the original recording directly 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to your ears as little, you know, fuss as possible. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There are absolutely headphones and applications for that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I get it, you know, recording audio files, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     listening to the original vinyl and, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if you've got a $1,500 vinyl record player, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     this is nothing, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you want headphones that transmit that, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or $2,000 record player or more, whatever, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you get the drift. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But this, that's not that at all. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So then you have to ask yourself, like, what is this about? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:56:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, what's the purpose of shipping these? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the two H1 chips, nine microphones, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like every trick that they've learned so far in audio 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is in these things. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's tied to, of course, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     all of the tricks that they've introduced on iOS 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for, you know, positional audio, the spatial audio 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that they're shipping, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You have the adaptive EQ, which says, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hey, I'm gonna read the seal of your ears. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Some other headphones do this, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but not to the efficacy of these. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's better than any of the others I've tried. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I will say that there is a, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     there is a case to be made here that what they're doing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is exactly what you were alluding to on the AR front, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that they are building out this sort of platform. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And in my original first, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     gasp review of the AirPods, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause they came out at the same time as an iPhone, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I like tucked my AirPods review into that, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:57:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I also broke it out 'cause I felt like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, it's worth talking about on its own a little bit. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it was like, hey, this is audio AR, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     get ready, you know, we're gonna be looking at this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that was, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I can't remember when they came out now, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the years blend together, several years ago, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But that was basically, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     me trying to be all fun and future looking and say, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hey, what if, what if, what if, what if? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Well, we're in what if now. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You know, it's creating, when you put these on, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the larger drivers, the ear cup, the comfort, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the, now the content that supports that most 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and all of this stuff, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it crafts a soundstage for you that feels real. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It feels like you're listening to the audio 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     without headphones on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you're looking at this, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if you're watching the kind of content that supports it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     right, it's not all content, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's only on iOS devices. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There's a lot of limitations here so far, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 00:58:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - But if you are looking, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you're watching an episode of a show on the iOS device 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:58:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that supports that most and the spatial audio is on, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you turn it off, the soundstage like vanishes 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you're getting a single flat kind of, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hey, here's audio presentation, sounds good, but whatever. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     When you turn it on, it really is insane. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like it's really incredible the breadth and depth 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of the soundstage there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, I've spent, I spent years, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like 10 years installing home theater audio, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I know what a good soundstage sounds like. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm not the world's expert on this stuff, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I know how to set up a home theater system. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I know how to set up 7.1 and 5.1. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's actually really good. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Definitely not to the par of some sort 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of actual physical installation, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it would never probably will be, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but maybe, you know, it's actually really getting close. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's way, way better than any of those like 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     fake sound bar-y type things where they're like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hey, we'll project your audio for you. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they just kind of like use a little beam forming. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's way better than that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's pretty incredible. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so I think that it's really a test bed 
     
     
  
 
 
	 00:59:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for all of those technologies. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is the best you can get right now 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in a headphone version of a home theater audio setup. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But the downsides, of course, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     we're all still there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It only works on iOS. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's only on portable devices like an iPad or whatever. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can't watch your Apple TV and get that spatial audio. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It doesn't work yet, you know, that kind of thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - It seems crazy to me. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I blew a chunk of my review complaining about it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It seems crazy that it doesn't work with Apple TV. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, like, it is quite possibly 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a better audio experience than you could get 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     from any speakers, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'Cause it's right there personally for you, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like in the way that VR goggles 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     are gonna give you a better VR experience 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     than a screen ever could, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:00:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - It's like, you know, like the old Star Trek holodeck. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Never really added up the way, like, wait, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:00:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if it's just a bunch of, if it's just four walls 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in like a racquetball court, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     how are they protecting stuff in the middle? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But whatever is the future. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, in the way that for true VR, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you really need goggles that are personal for you, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and if you and I are having the same experience, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     we both need goggles so that we're both 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     getting a personal experience. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think that it's quite possible that for that spatial audio 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you're getting a better experience from these headphones 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     than you would from any speaker set up in a room. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'Cause it's for you. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And maybe you could set the speakers up 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     so there's one sweet spot in the middle 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where like two people sitting in the middle of the room 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     get the perfect experience. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But everybody else aren't because they're not in the center. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Why, you get this, the best possible audio experience 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to watch a blockbuster action movie 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you have to watch it on an iPad? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     To get, that's the biggest screen you can get? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's insane. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It just seems crazy to me. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:01:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Anyway, I'll pick this up 'cause I wanna keep going. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But let me take a break while I'm thinking about it 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and thank our next sponsor. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Oh, I love this company. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They're sponsoring Daring Fireball this week. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's the rare two shot where their sponsorship coincides 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with the website and the podcast. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'Cause I'm not good at juggling things. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Kolide, or Kolide, actually I learned 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that I mispronounced their name among many others. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it looks like Kolide, K-O-L-I-D-E, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but they pronounce it Kolide. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Anyway, they're an endpoint security company 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for teams at Slack and they have just released 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a free guide called Honest Security. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they want me to tell you about it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     In the guide, Kolide, Kolide shares and expands 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on everything they've learned over the last year, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     working on their own product in the hope 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that they can inspire others to embrace and expand 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on the same honest approach. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The guide discusses five key tenets. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The values your organization stands behind 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     should be well represented in your security program. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     A positive working relationship between the end user 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:02:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and security team is incredibly valuable 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and worth fostering. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This relationship is built on a foundation of trust 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that is demonstrated through informed consent 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and transparency. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The security team should anticipate and expect 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that end users use their company-owned devices 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for personal activities and design their detection 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     capabilities with this in mind. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     End users are capable of making rational 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and informed decisions about security risks 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     when educated and honestly motivated. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can read this guide completely for free at, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and this is like my favorite little detail, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the guide is called Honest Security. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The guide is at the domain name honest.security. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's swear to God, that's the URL, honest.security 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for their honest security report. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     No forms, collect your email and there's nothing else 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to slow you down. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's not like, oh, give us your email 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then you can read it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:03:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Just go to honest.security and read the guide for free. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's all they want me to tell you. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So my thanks to Collide, AKA Collide, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for sponsoring the show. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Go to honest.security and read their guide. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So here's where I'm going with this, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with the spatial audio. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     To me, and this is why I love talking to you about it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause I think you know what I'm talking about. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     To me, it is Disney-esque in terms of its immersiveness. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is visceral when you're watching something 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that is hooked up with this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is crazy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So Apple, you know, the reviewers guide 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     some suggested scenes of movies 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that really show off spatial audio 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it was sort of like their, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     look, in normal times, I probably would've gone to New York 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I guess they maybe would've had you 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     go down to Cupertino or something. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But they probably would've had a product briefing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:04:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in New York and had one set up for the press to go over 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and now here, try this and we'll show you. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Although I guess they probably would've just would've had 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     an iPad set up in front of everybody 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause it doesn't work with Apple TV. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But here are some of the scenes they might've shown us. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I looked at them, 'cause it's like, yeah, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I wanna, you know, show me what spatial audio is awesome at. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And one of them was a scene from Ford versus Ferrari, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which I love, which is a great movie. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Do you see that guy, what's his name? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     James Mangold, he's gonna direct the-- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, James Mangold's directing the new indie. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - The new indie. - I'm stoked. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, yeah, hopefully. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, I think he has the right sensibility to it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, you know, Ford versus Ferrari, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     while not the world's most amazing cinema ever, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     had really exciting photography, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     really, you know, really like deft hand 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     as far as the character beats. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And in a movie like that, that's like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     has that kind of arc where you know 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where it's headed in general 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you know it's a known story, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it had the right moments of like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, kind of joy and catharsis. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:05:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I thought he did a really good job. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     He'll do good with an indie, I think. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - I thought it was kind of crazy serendipity 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that this, did the news break? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I saw the news that he's gonna helm indie five yesterday. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'Cause I know Disney had this big announcement 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where they announced all their stuff for the next year. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think if it didn't come out yesterday, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it came out the day before. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I thought it was such serendipity, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause a friend of the show, Todd Visserie, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     was tweeting recently, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     just some sound design clips from Raiders of the Lost Ark, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which is like, seriously, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     maybe my favorite movie of all time. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Always, always in the top five. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And if you say, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "Give me the best movies you've ever seen." 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Raiders is always in my top five. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the sound is one of my favorite things about Raiders. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Always has been, and it's always been confounding to me 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that more action movies don't just go back to Raiders. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, one of the great things in Raiders is, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:06:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     okay, action movies, what happens in action movies 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that doesn't really happen in real life all the time? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     People are always firing guns, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's guns, boom, boom, boom. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     People are firing guns all the time. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     In real life, a gunshot is a hell of a thing, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, it's intense. - Anytime, right. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Every time a gun goes off in Raiders of the Lost Ark, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it is a hell of a thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is like, boom! 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's one gunshot is a hell of a thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it sounds like it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, turn that up loud. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Ford versus Ferrari has that sort of, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hey, if you take a $9 million race car in 1968 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or whatever the hell year this was, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and just had a guy run it at top speed around a race course, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that's gonna be, that's a hell of a machine 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to put up into the red. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, if you put that race car in the red, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that's a hell of a-- - It's overwhelming, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's overwhelming. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I've been in cars with, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     not one of those specifically, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I've been in cars at that level 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with somebody else driving 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:07:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     who really knows how to hone it around. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's an overwhelming experience. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Your body is just sort of, you know, it's intense. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that's why F1 drivers 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     are some of the best athletes in the world, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because you can't imagine the stresses that they go under. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Anyway, that was just a fun serendipity, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because I thought it's what makes the sound design 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of Ford versus Ferrari such a great example 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is exactly the sort of thing that, in my opinion, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the Indy franchise has gotten away from, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's sort of devolved into standard action fare. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that, man, when you go back to Raiders, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and just like, hey, like a whip crack, just boom. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Just focus on this one thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     instead of trying to pick one crayon out of the box. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Don't use all 64 of them at once, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right. (laughs) 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Anyway, Ford versus Ferrari, wow. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was, the scene they suggested was the scene 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where the Matt Damon character, what's it, Shelby, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:08:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     takes the Ford grandson and (laughs) 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     he like, not really tricks him, but like just, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hey, take a seat in the car, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     let me take you around the track. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's both the race car sound and the tire squealing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the bits of dialogue mixed in, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where there's characters talking 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     while there's this crazy noise. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's not just that you can hear them loud as day, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     clear as a bell, but that there's direction to it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And if the character is like slightly off 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to the right center on screen, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     their voice is coming, like, and it, again, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     does not sound like it's coming from the iPad, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     arms reach away from you. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It sounds like there's a man six feet off, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a little bit to your right, talking to you. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is, and that visceral nature of it 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     sounds like there's a person right there, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it sounds like you're in a tiny little race car 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:09:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where your knees are up by your chin 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with this crazy engine that could kill you, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     revving right in front of you. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It all sounds so real, and it just is like the best 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of like a modern Disney attraction. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, yeah, it feels like you're riding 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     one of those crazy flying things in Avatar, you know? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, it really does. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And like the experience, I've said this, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I just like said this on Twitter and other people are like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     oh, yeah, yeah, this happened to me too. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The experience of watching one of these movies 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with the, you know, even the AirPods Pro, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but obviously even more intense with the Max, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is that it feels like you don't have headphones on 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and that the sound is actually projecting out 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     into the room itself from the device. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I think somebody took this to mean 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that I thought the iPad sounded great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's not what I mean. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's just, I mean, it's better than, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     iPads in the past if you're talking about like the iPad Pro, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it really has nothing to do with that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:10:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's really that the sound feels like it's filling 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the room that you're in. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so like I had the experience of, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     sitting in bed watching a movie on the iPad 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the spatial audio turned on, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and when I was watching it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I actually thought I was gonna wake my wife up 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause I thought that my headphones had disconnected. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that it was playing through the iPad speakers 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     out into the room, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I took 'em off multiple times. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I did it once, I'm like, oh no, I guess not. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'Cause then it pauses and you're like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is it playing or not? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And no, I guess not. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I put it back in, it starts playing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm like, oh yeah, that's definitely the head, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then a couple minutes later, I did it again. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I didn't believe myself. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's actually kind of remarkable. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I think there's, people are getting 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a little bit hung up on the Atmos thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because they're like, oh, does this really sound 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like height level speakers plus 5.1, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which is really what makes Atmos different? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's like, no, you know, not really, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like Atmos is Atmos for a reason. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And sure, if you have physical speakers 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:11:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     filling a physical space and, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and they're all calibrated correctly 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you have the right room for it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the screen is the right distance away 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you're sitting in the optimal position 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to listen to this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Not, yeah, how many people are gonna have 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the experience of Atmos in their home? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Very few, proportionately speaking. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I have an Atmos system in my house 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because I'm fortunate enough to have the space 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that works for it and I know how to set it up, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     so I did it all myself, so it didn't cost me 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a arm and a leg to install it, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:12:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - But most people don't. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I do believe that that is one interesting thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     about this that yes, these are $550, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but the AirPods Pro are not 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and they both do spatial audio 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and as they build out this platform, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I do believe it is actually, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and this is why I think this is driven 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     from the executive level a lot 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because I believe that there are a lot of cinemaphiles 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in Apple and a lot of people who love high-end audio 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and all of this stuff, which is why we got HomePod 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:12:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and not, you know, Apple Alexa, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is that they're democratizing quality of sound 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in a pretty aggressive way. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So yes, you may not get 100% of Atmos, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but you may get 60 to 70% of Atmos in a headphone 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that somebody could buy for $550 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     instead of spending eight grand on an Atmos setup. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:13:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - And it's definitely a different way 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to frame this conversation 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I'm sure people will bitch at me about it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I, as somebody who has gone through the trouble 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to do this and help people set these up over the years, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm just telling you, it's actually a really impressive 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     sound stage that they've built virtually 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it will give a lot more people exposure 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to the kind of home theater type sound at home 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if they're using these devices. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I just wish it worked with Apple TV 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the way it's supposed to, you know? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:13:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - And I need to do some more testing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - It has to be coming to Apple TV. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Whether it really does require some sort of hardware 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:13:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for locating the headphones versus where the TV is 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and we really have to wait for another Apple TV 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hardware update or if it could be done in software, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know, but I mean, it seems criminal to me 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that Apple TV is $200 and you're gonna have to buy 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     another new one to get spatial audio, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but if it does, it does. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, if it really does require hardware 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that's only currently in iPhones and iPads, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     then what are they gonna do? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it has to be coming 'cause it's so frickin' good 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and there really are, it's not just if you don't wanna spend 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for the speakers, but if you've got like a small apartment 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and a sleeping baby down the hall 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or your wife is sleeping on the couch 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or if you've got a TV in the bedroom 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you wanna watch this movie on the TV in your bedroom 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and your spouse is sleeping next to you, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     headphones are the way to go, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but with these, you don't have to sacrifice 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I'm with you. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is like you get absorbed. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:14:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like 15, 30 seconds, a minute in, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's like I'm thinking like a reviewer 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I'm trying to figure out how this works 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I'm thinking about how this and where sources, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then all of a sudden I realize another two minutes 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     have gone by and I'm just into the movie 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's like whoa, I cannot believe 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that this is in my headphones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is so immersive. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is incredibly impressive 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it is like multi, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     multi $10 million Disney attraction immersiveness 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that you can get. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Again, 550 is a lot for headphones, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but $550 for this world-class immersion 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you don't have to know any technical details. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There's no EQs to turn up or down. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's just make it sound good, you know? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is so immersive. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You've got a good sound system. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I set up, I finally got around to hooking up two HomePods 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to my Apple TV in my living room. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:15:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     My audio situation is that we were having renovations done 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     last year and we didn't know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it turned out being like incredible. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was like, you know, Indiana, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     let's go back to Indiana Jones. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You know, Indiana Jones slipping under the door 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then goes back and grabs his whip 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     before the door closes. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That was our contractors finishing up before COVID shut down. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was just, they finished up in like the first week of March 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it was like, huh, that worked out really well. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So we got a new TV 'cause we redid the living room 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's, you know, I got the big 77-inch LG OLED thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I didn't buy a sound system yet. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I was like, well, we'll just play, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     let's just play audio through the TV. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's like, hey, the audio through the TV is not bad. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And neither Amy nor Jonas really complain about it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm surprised Jonas doesn't, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:16:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it's for TV, sound coming out of the TV, it's not bad. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so I've just procrastinated all year long 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause it's 2020 and I haven't bought anything. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So I didn't have to unhook anything to set up. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I just had to move HomePods from other rooms in the house 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to put them in the living room. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It sounds really good. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Obviously it can't fake coming from behind you, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I'm not really into that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't really want speakers behind me. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I'm fine with having all the audio coming 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     from before me, but the HomePods as home stereo thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     sounds way better than they have any right to sound 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in my opinion. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I love the idea and it scores me points with the wife 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that if I go this route, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't have to have a separate woofer. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't have to have a woofer, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which is, I score some political points on that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's really impressive. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:17:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I just love what Apple's doing in this arena. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I really do think it comes to exactly what you said, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that there are people in the company who love movies, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but really want to democratize it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And again, it is this weird, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to me that's the explanation. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like why in the world are they selling $550 headphones? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Why are they selling $300 smart speakers? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Well, they're not $300 smart speakers. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And why do they work better with a pair? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So it's a $600 setup. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's like, if you think of them as gadgets 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     competing with Alexa stuff, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     yes, $600 is a lot. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But if you think of it compared to what Bang & Olufsen 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     wants to sell you, it's really not. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you come at it from the other side of the market, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     these are democratizing prices. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, and it's, look, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     at the bottom level of this, you go, money is real. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     $550 is a lot of money. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:18:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So if you decide to buy these things, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you need to be comfortable spending $550. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you're comfortable spending that, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's actually a really fascinating product 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with some distinct benefits for people 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that are tightly integrated with the iOS system, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     especially if you watch a lot on iPad. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like that's my summary. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you listen to a lot of music, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like straight up music from Apple Music 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or stream from an iOS device, it'll be great there too. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If you watch movies from iPad, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think you're gonna get a better experience. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And theoretically, you're buying into a future platform 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that will work for home theater as well, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like in terms of like watching it on an Apple TV. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But if you just want a pair of headphones 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that work great for noise cancellation, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     fold up really well and travel really well, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     don't buy these. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They're not for that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They won't work well for that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     As it stands, there's no case 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that I'd really recommend traveling with them with. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's just not good for that, period. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:19:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, and my suggestion, if you want the Apple stuff, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     just seriously try AirPods Pro for that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'Cause I've flown, there wasn't a big window 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     between AirPods Pro coming out last October 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the March shutdown, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I had a couple of flights in there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I stopped carrying the Bose, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     not because I'd given up on them, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but just specifically so that, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     well, if I'm going to try AirPods Pro on the flight, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I took at least one flight where I had them both 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     so I could try them both side by side in the cabin. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it went well enough where like the next trip I took 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     before everything shut down and I stopped taking trips, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I just took AirPods Pro. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They really worked pretty well for that 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where the noise cancellation is good enough 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to get out the cabin noise 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you're just listening to music or movies 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it sounds clear, but it's not like this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And like in my review, I touched on this where it's like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know what to say because it's like the movies 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where this would make the biggest difference 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and be worthwhile are the sort of movies 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:20:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where I really want to watch on my TV at home. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But if I am going to watch a movie on a plane, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     why not completely satiate one of my senses? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like there's nothing you can do on a plane 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to give yourself a 77 inch OLED, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but you can give yourself a truly world class 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     audio experience, why not? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like and I could totally see if I got into a good movie 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with these on, I feel like it would be like somebody 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like sitting in the middle seat next to me 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     who wants to go to the bathroom 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and they're gonna tap me on the shoulder 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I'm gonna be like shocked 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause I forgot I was over there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I really do. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think that even though you're watching 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on like an 11 inch iPad, I feel like the audio 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     could immerse yourself enough that you could forget 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you're on an airplane. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And if you travel enough, that's a huge win, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:21:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, you just have to dedicate yourself 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to traveling with these things in a way 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that you don't have to dedicate yourself 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to traveling with a pair of headphones 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that has more folding and articulation, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So you gotta understand that trade off going in. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:21:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I'm gonna create a dedicated space for these in my bag 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and those are gonna go in there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But when I get on that 11 hour flight to the UK 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I watch three movies and sleep 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then watch another movie and then have a little breakfast 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or whatever, I mean, hey, an 11 inch iPad 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or 13 inch iPad, two and a half feet from your face 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is the equivalent of an 80 inch screen, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So that plus the headphones and yeah, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you've got yourself a really nice portable 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     home theater setup, which doesn't, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it doesn't really exist in the way that it exists here 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with existing 5.1 capable headphones 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because it is not, there's no two way communication. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that is really, I think where we're talking about 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like the hardware stuff in the, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that's not in the Apple TV, how are they gonna figure that 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or can they do it in software? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'Cause the iPad knows where the headphones are 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and vice versa. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There is a two way communication there 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and at least in orientation and a little bit in distance, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     right, 'cause it does a ranging check. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:22:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so it kind of knows where you are 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and that back and forth comms is what keeps it locked in 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and keeps it feeling like the soundstage is accurate 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     so that when you as a physical person 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     are moving around in the soundstage, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     either your head or turning or whatever, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the sound stays in the proper position. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'Cause what normally happens when you turn your head, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     when you're watching a screen is at the center 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of the soundstage travels with your face. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so you're looking to the left, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but the sounds and the soundstage is to the left 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but the screen is to the right. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And like that difference is huge. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's the same difference that you see in VR headsets 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with good tracking because the moment you lose tracking 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on that, your body's like, this ain't real 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and by the way, I'm sick because the physical world 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     doesn't match my inner ear, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And with a good tracking of your headset, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it sells it immediately. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It makes you feel immersed. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It makes you feel like this is a real thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:23:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Your body and your glands and your cerebellum 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     are all working in conjunction to tell you, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     this thing is real, this is working, everything is cool. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     What you're seeing is real life. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that kind of two-way comms is what sets this apart 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     from others 7.1 or 5.1 compatible headsets 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that do not have any communication with the device 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that they're watching it on. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that's the differentiation factor for now here. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, it reminds me of like an optical illusion. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There's a lot of them, like there's the famous one. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, it looks like a chalice centered in the square 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but if you stare at it long enough, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it suddenly looks like two faces in profile staring. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Or Pepper's ghost with the mirrors and glass. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's like you put these on 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you know you're doing spatial audio 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you're moving your head a little bit left to right 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you're like, oh yeah, yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you're thinking about it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And no matter what you do, a minute in, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:24:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you completely forget. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And it's like instead of studying the chalice, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's like you're just immersed and it's uncanny. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It really is, I cannot emphasize it enough, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it is not a gimmick. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is a real thing that takes the headphone experience 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     up to another level. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And if you watch enough movies on an iPad, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it is seriously worthwhile. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Anyway, just a good segue into our third and final sponsor, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     speaking of travel, Away. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:25:30
     ◼
      
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	 01:25:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:25:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:25:38
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     ► 
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	 01:25:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:25:45
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     ► 
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	 01:25:48
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	 01:25:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Away has luggage that will make your trip more seamless 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:25:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:25:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:26:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:26:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Mine is years old at this point, still looks fantastic. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Wheels still roll great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Can't say enough about the durability of this thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And again, this is my overhead thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that takes the most abuse. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     With durable exteriors that can withstand 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:26:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:26:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that includes a built-in compression pad 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to help you pack more in. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I swear that works, really keeps your shirts nice and pressed 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     put them in there, cinch them in with a compression pad, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     then pile other stuff on top. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they have a hidden and removable laundry bag 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that separates your dirty clothes 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's a great place to stash your dirty stuff 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     while you're on your trip. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They've got those 360 spinner wheels 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:26:46
     ◼
      
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	 01:26:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:26:52
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	 01:26:57
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     ► 
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	 01:26:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they're designed to expand by 1.75 inches 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:27:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or less if you're packing less. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's really great, they're just great products. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They have good handles, the carry-ons 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     have built-in USB chargers. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Good, good, good stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I have one, or a couple actually, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but the carry-on is my go-to that I never, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:27:27
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     ► 
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	 01:27:30
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     ► 
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	 01:27:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:27:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:27:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:27:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:27:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:27:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:27:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:27:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and they offer free shipping and returns 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:27:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:27:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:27:58
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     ► 
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	 01:28:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:28:07
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     ► 
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	 01:28:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:28:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
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	 01:28:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's awaytravel.com/talkshow20. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Before you go, I guess the other big thing, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know if, we got all caught up talking 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     about headphones in the meantime, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     we haven't talked about the fact that Apple 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     has completely moved the Macintosh platform 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to a new architecture. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - You know, just the little things. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Oh gosh, yeah, well they did a lot this year, to be honest. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, given the year it's been, it's pretty crazy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That's just a month old. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like isn't that wild? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like this is seriously like, from my interests, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, as somebody who's, I'm interested in politics 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:28:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in normal years and if you're interested in politics, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a presidential election in the US is always a big deal. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Needless to say, this just felt like a big one. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - A little bit. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     A little bit unusual. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - My entire professional life has been built 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     around the Macintosh computer. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's kind of a big month for the Macintosh. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like this has all been a month. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It just seems crazy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like that is one thing I'm at the point now 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with the M1 MacBook Pro where I'm so spoiled, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where it now, I'm over the part where it feels amazing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it feels normal. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, and it's just everything else feels worse, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like that's the-- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Everything else feels worse. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - And you know what, just to speak to the onslaught part 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of it, you know, the M1 Mac, huge, huge change 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in architecture, really a generational, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     once in a generation change, step change in capability 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:29:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for PCs and by PCs, I mean personal computers, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that goes for PCs that run Windows 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or any other platform. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     These things are just better and you can tell 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that even now where they're like, oh, this beats 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a more powerful PC or even a more powerful Mac, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or more powerful, I should say, this beats a hot top 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of the line previous one from ostensibly the high end 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of the line, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Previous ones, and we know, everybody knows, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and yes, there's been some talk about it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but really I don't think anybody's quite internalized it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that this is the entry level, like this is the beginning, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     this is just like, hey, what if I wanna buy a cheap laptop? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Oh, just get this one, it's probably the best on the market, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's $1,000, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like that's, and it's already beating those. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So like the exponential shift in what PCs are capable 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or what computers are capable of, what Macs are capable of, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     portable computers are capable of, and what they can do, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     how far you can push the performance 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     while still maintaining a usable battery 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and a usable mobile platform, we're just beginning 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:30:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to see that, and I don't think that people 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     have internalized it yet at all because A, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the tools need to be rebuilt to take advantage of it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then new tools, new companies, new architectures 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that are just being spun up now, we're gonna see them 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     sort of appear over the next few years 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that take advantage of this kind of big change. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Because you talk about the iPhone having had 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     an enormous profound effect on the capability of software, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, entire billion dollar companies, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Airbnb wouldn't exist without the iPhone, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     DoorDash wouldn't exist without the iPhone, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't give a crap about Android or not, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's not really about that, I'm not talking down Android 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or anything, but frankly, the App Store and the iPhone 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     provided the ability for these companies to get fuel 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and to get access to people with a disposable income 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that wanted to spend money on, say, food delivery 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or vacation homes or whatever, all of these businesses 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     were fueled by the rise of the iPhone and the App Store, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:31:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and that, in turn, many other applications and those 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     were fueled by the fact that the platform remained performant 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     through its entire lifespan. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You know, when the iPhone came out, it was like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     oh, this is cool, I can actually browse the web for real 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's kind of fast, and yeah, everybody complains 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     about the speed of an iPhone, or complained about it 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for the first couple of years, but since then, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     nobody's said anything in practical terms, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     aside from people running benchmarks, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     about whether the iPhone is speedy or not. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is speedy, period, it is, and that's the error 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     we're entering into with PCs, it's huge, it's a big change. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - I loved this from your, I just, I wanna get the numbers 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     right, so I dialed it up, but from your M1 MacBook Pro 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     review, as a real world benchmark, you compiled 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the WebKit project, which is, again, that's not 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     an artificial benchmark, now, is a typical person 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     going to compile WebKit, no, of course not, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:32:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it is a real thing, real people do, it's a real project, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's an interesting test, and the M1 MacBook Pro 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     compiles the whole source of WebKit in about 21 minutes, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the 13-inch MacBook Pro Intel from this year 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     was 46 minutes, 10 seconds, so over twice as long, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but the biggest difference was if you do this on battery, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the M1, in addition to being a little over twice as fast, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     has 91, start with a full charge, 91% battery life left. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that's the same, whether you're using the MacBook Pro 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or the MacBook Air, and the 13-inch MacBook Pro 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     from this year has 24% battery left, like, that's crazy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - And then, you did-- - And it'll buy, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it'll say baseball, I thought those numbers were wrong, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I thought I was screwing something up big time, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     so I actually had three people run it for me 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on their own machines, and I had the same results. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:33:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - I would totally think that, I would look at those results, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:34:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's, you know, there's the sort of person 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:34:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     who sees results like that, and then they go, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:34:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, it's like those guys in the '80s from Utah 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:34:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     who ran to the New York Times and said 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:34:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they invented desktop fusion. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:34:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yes, you're like, uh, let's fact check. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:34:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - There's the sort of person who sees results like that 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:34:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and is like, quick, publish, and then there's the sort 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:34:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of person who thinks, wait, I better triple check this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:34:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yes, well I always assume I'm the weakest link, so. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:34:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - But even the state of the art 16-inch MacBook Pro, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:34:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     which is a lot bigger device, and you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:34:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a lot more expensive, goes from 100% to 61% 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:34:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on one run through WebKit. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:34:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, so the time makes a difference, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:34:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     twice as fast is impressive, and twice as fast on, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:34:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     we're still talking about the consumer end of the notebooks, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     not the pro end, but the battery life thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is game-changing, like, 'cause what if you need 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to make a change and recompile it? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:35:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Then you can do this multiple times, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and there's all sorts of things that people do 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that, you know, exporting video is huge. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They had lots of people export video, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's, you know, it grinds your computer, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you know, all of a sudden you realize 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you've misspelled somebody's name in the credits, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you've gotta export it again, you know? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We screwed up, you know, that one shot in this, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     we didn't color correct, you have to bang out 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the whole thing, you know, you can't just fix the one thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So, you know, if you can do that multiple times, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you're in the field, you're in the airport, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you're somewhere, and you're on battery, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you're doing, you're working on a plane, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you can do this, it is, that's night and day, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that's a totally different thing, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:35:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and like you said, it's only the consumer end so far. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:36:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Which is crazy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So that leads me to, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Gurman had a report this week talking about like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "Hey, where are they going with the future M series chips 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "for the rest of the lineup?" 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And, you know, one of the big questions people have is, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "What are their plans for GPUs in the pro models?" 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I've been thinking, I've been thinking even before 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     we saw the first M1 max, I've been thinking ever since, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     even before they announced this stuff at WWDC, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that they're gonna do it all themselves. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     That they're done depending on other people. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:36:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - They're too big a company, it's too important. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, when you see how central the GPU is 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to the modern compute landscape, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     everything from AI to, you know, even the GPU taking over UI 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for a lot of applications, you know, from the CPU, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     there's just very, it's actually funny because 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:36:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     there's a lot, a grand percentage less CPU bound operations 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on a PC than there was 10 years ago. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right, and combine that, so the centrality of GPU period, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     even if you're just using a stock Windows Intel system, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the centrality of the GPU to modern computing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is one reason that they would take it just as seriously 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and do it all themselves the way they do CPU. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But then combine that, it's like a multiplier, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's not just like an asterisk or a footnote, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it's a multiplier with the way that the M1 shows 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that putting them all on the same chip 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and having them designed to work together 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     makes everything faster, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, and so there's certain things that used to be 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like dirty words, like shared memory, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, oh, shared memory, you know, that was a compromise 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause it just happened to be that the systems 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that use shared memory between a GPU and CPU 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     were low-end GPU systems, like, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:37:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     long battery life consumer laptops. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Or, you know, the discrete GPU versus integrated GPU, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's a dirty word, integrated GPU, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause it meant bad GPU, bad low power. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, yeah, it became a dirty word very quickly. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like, oh, that's the bare minimum 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to get this thing to run. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right. - Yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right, and so you, you know, for the most part, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like the words just describe how they work, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but what people hear is, oh, discrete GPU means powerful GPU 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and integrated GPU means weak GPU. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that's just how things were, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that's not how they have to be, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the shared memory on the M1 isn't a, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     well, okay, it's a consumer laptop. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     No, that's how this is so much faster, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because anything that gets handed off, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:38:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like, oh, you wanna do this transformation 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on this big photo, we'll let the GPU do it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You don't have to copy the memory over anymore. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And every single time, and this doesn't matter how fast, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, and the M1 has very fast memory bandwidth, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it doesn't matter how fast it is 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if you don't have to copy in the first place, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you're saving, it's an infinite performance increase, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'Cause you're not copying. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:39:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - And I just feel like that is definitely going to happen 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with the Pro machines, and it's just, people are a little, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think that so many people don't realize 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     how off on their own Apple is with this stuff, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so many of the questions when the M1 was about 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to come out, or when it just did come out 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     from other members of the media, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     were framing it based on Windows ARM systems. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Because, well, these chips are using ARM, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:39:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and those chips use ARM, and they're very slow, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and there's a lot of compromises, and it's like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     just because they're both using the ARM instruction set 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     doesn't mean they're any more comparable 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     than the fact that like the, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     what was the name of the chip in the 12-inch MacBook? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The Intel M-- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Oh, yeah, I can't remember. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Yeah, I can't remember what that thing was. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Well, whatever that little chip was, was x86, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the Xeon chips in the Mac Pro are x86, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the fact that they're both x86 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     doesn't mean they have any shared performance characteristics 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in terms of power or speed, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the fact that Windows Surface laptops 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     are based on ARM chips, and the M1 is based 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on the ARM architecture chips, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     doesn't mean they share any performance characteristics 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:40:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     at all, and so beginning your framing of it that way 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is just the wrong way to look at it, in my opinion. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the fact that Apple hasn't shown us 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     pro-GPU silicon from their own design 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     doesn't mean they can't do it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, it's exciting, and it's a big thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm looking forward to in 2021, is at some point, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they're going to show it to us this year, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I believe they can do it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that might be one of the reasons 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     why they didn't make this transition a year or two earlier. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, maybe CPU-wise, clearly they could've done it earlier. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Maybe GPU-wise, to do it from the top 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of the Mac Pro lineup all the way to the consumer laptops, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they needed more time, but I think it's coming. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think it's, and I think that this idea 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of calling them discrete GPUs and integrated GPUs, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     forget about it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Mm-hmm, yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't think that there is an analog either 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:41:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to allow people to draw easy comparisons, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I think that's one of the problems, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or one of the reasons that we're seeing, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     we initially saw so much mismatch, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but in opinion versus performance, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause there was certainly, I mean, I'm not, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     he sort of has a reputation as somebody 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     who doesn't mind staking opinions, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     even if they're quite dramatically wrong, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or I shouldn't say wrong, but even, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     he's like, "Hey, I'm willing to be the guy who says this," 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but Linus from Linus Tech Tips, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     he generally goes out there and is like, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "Hey, I'm gonna plant a flag while everybody knows 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "that I'm planting a flag that may very well be challenged," 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or whatever, he's willing to sort of do that, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I generally find that I'm okay 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with the way that he goes about it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     He's not being petulant, he's being opinionated, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And there's a difference. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so he definitely came out and said, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "Oh, M1, good luck, this is never gonna work 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "the way that they say it's gonna work. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:42:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "They're saying it's desktop class and all of this stuff, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "and it's just, here's the reasons that I believe 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "that that's marketing, essentially, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "snow blowing versus something real." 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then, to his credit, came back after the announcement 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and was like, "Uh, yeah, so here's all the reasons 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "I was wrong, and this is actually a pretty intensely 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "performant chip and very indicative that they could do 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     "some really cool stuff in the future." 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I do believe that that disconnect obviously comes 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     largely from UMA, from the unified memory architecture, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     community transmitting so much performance gains 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to the CPU and that integration there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I think the same conversation is gonna happen again 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     when we come to GPUs, because NVIDIA and AMD 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     certainly have a death grip on that industry 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and are battling it out, release after release 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for the most performant graphics chip on the market 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and all of this stuff. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But they aren't systems manufacturers. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:43:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They cannot tell the rest of the system 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     how to act in a certain way. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They're certainly more integrated than ever, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause every Windows laptop maker and motherboard maker 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     wants to make sure that they work great 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with the new NVIDIA graphics chip, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because otherwise people won't buy them, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's like a big driver of sales for gaming 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and for specialized applications. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But they don't make those systems. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They can't build them from the ground up 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to work perfectly with them. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And at the end of the day, they are still a peripheral. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They are at the edge of the system or at one edge 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of the system talking to the system. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Whereas the M1 is not a peripheral, it is the system. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And the M1's graphics processing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and M1's memory architecture is the system. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that huge kind of step change in the way 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that we think about systems integrations, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I believe will forever change the way we process 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     those words, integrated graphics, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:44:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It may redeem the term forever in a way 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that we really haven't seen much happen much. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Everybody's like, hey, external GPUs are the thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So very interesting time ahead. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - And part of this is a mindset difference 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that hasn't changed in 25, 30 years, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think back to the '90s, and I remember a very, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I forget the guy, I forget his name, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I remember the argument. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     There was a guy in the Drexel dorms 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     who was more of a PC enthusiast, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and Drexel was very, famously was one of these 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Macintosh campuses where you had to have access 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to a Mac to do coursework. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And he was nonplussed about it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, I think he brought his PC then, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     so he had like a PC and a Mac on his tiny little dorm desk. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I remember this argument with him about sound cards, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I was like, take a step back. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Isn't this crazy? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:45:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's crazy that you need to buy a separate sound card 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and get sound drivers and make sure they're compatible 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and keep 'em up to date. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You shouldn't be able to have a computer 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that doesn't make sound unless you, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or the only sound that a PC that's out of sound card 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in the '90s can make was like a 16 kilohertz doorbell ring. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
 
	 01:46:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - It was like a chiptone type thing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     unless you bought a sound card 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you had to keep the drives. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, this is crazy. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It should all just work. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Why shouldn't, why are you designing it? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Right, and that's still, like, okay, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     sound cards aren't really a thing anymore, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but graphic cards still are, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's still that mindset that if you become an enthusiast 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you really care, you pick these components 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and put them together. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And sure, Apple never really was into that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like, you can't just put any, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:46:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you can't put an Nvidia GPU in a Mac Pro, period, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They did just, you know, it's not Windows. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:47:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - And Apple's divorce with Nvidia four or five years ago 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is never gonna heal at this point. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But it's still like Apple-- - Yeah, the window 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for that to heal and Nvidia to integrate deeply has passed. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So now it's Apple going, nah, we're gonna do it. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:47:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - But building their Macs on the Intel architecture 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     meant that Apple had to do these component choices. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Okay, we'll support these GPUs from AMD 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and we'll support the switching 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     between the integrated Intel GPU and the AMD 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that we add to the 16-inch MacBook Pro. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And we'll write the stuff in the OS 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to know when to get into that and go back to this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We'll do that, but it's like ultimately 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the experience should just be, no, just turn it on 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it has good graphics, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I feel like that's the reckoning that Linus, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:47:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Linus Tech, I don't know what his last name is, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I know what you're talking, he called it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     he was calling it an iPad chips. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And again, I get it, I get the perspective, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it's like, dude, you're not getting it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think one way Apple sandbagged everybody too 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I checked on this. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I never signed up to get a dev kit 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     'cause I didn't really have a reason for 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I didn't think it would be worthwhile. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I asked around and people who I trusted Apple 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to give me an honest answer, no, don't get a dev kit 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     just to sort of-- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - To see what the M1 era is gonna be like. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right, I was told, no, it's not worth it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's not indicative. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is really truly for compatibility. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is truly valuable for developers 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to test binary compatibility. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It is not indicative at all. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And we're not just saying that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, it's not some sort of sneak preview 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that's gonna give you a good insight. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:48:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right. - Yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right, and so I've talked to some friends who have, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     lots and lots of developers have them 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because they wanna be compatible. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I was like, hey, am I not, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like nobody was raving about the performance 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of those dev kits. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they're like, yeah, the dev kits weren't great. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     They're not bad. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's not like you were running stuff in molasses. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right. - And I think like-- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - But it was there just to see, hey, will it compile? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Will it run? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Will it get out the door? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - But none of these amazing feats of computing performance 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     were evident on the dev kit. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It just wasn't there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I kind of think that that framed people's perspectives 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that whatever the M chips were going to be, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they were going to be like that, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like I feel like your Linus type people 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     who were coming at it from a skeptical perspective 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     saw what people were saying about the dev kits 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and thought that was indicative of what they would ship. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:49:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And those wouldn't be bad, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like if they shipped a Mac mini-- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, if the first generation-- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - That formed like a dev kit. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, exactly. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     The first generation was like, hey, as performance 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or slightly less performance than current models, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think they think it would have gotten a total pass. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like there's nobody was expecting anything more than that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right, it just wouldn't have gotten raves. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It wouldn't be seen as a breakthrough. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was like, huh, you know, it ends up 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that the dev kit performs exactly like, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like a low end Intel Mac. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's, you know, roughly the same. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:50:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - But I really felt like that sandbagged 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     people's perspectives in terms of thinking 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that that was all they were capable of. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I kind of feel like it might be happening again 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where people are thinking, okay, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     this is the best Apple can do. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so these are, you know, this isn't great 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if you're a pro user. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - I have some friends who have worked on this project 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:50:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     over the years and, you know, I do feel that there are, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the perception ahead of time, while, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it wasn't like I was getting some sort of grand view 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     into what they were up to, just like, oh yeah, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     working on this thing, it's pretty cool. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But I think that there is a general vibe inside Apple 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that they were afraid to tip their hand to Intel. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - I think so too. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - And not in terms of, I mean, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm talking about the time period 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     even after they announced it, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So like, I think that, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, before they announced it for sure, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     like they didn't want to tip their hand to Intel big time, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, before they were ready, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because then, you know, there are all kinds of problems 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     with negotiation and like, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Intel probably gets pissed or gets irritated. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, Intel, if they're not stupid, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they knew this was coming eventually, especially years out. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     If pundits are saying it on the internet, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Intel who's in the business knows, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But there certainly was, there's a difference between, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     hey, they may do it someday and they're going to do it 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     next year and then ship it the year after or whatever, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:51:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or ship it like six months later. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And like that I think is a big difference. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they were afraid to tip their hand 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because they knew they had something special, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but it had to be ready, you know? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they knew though that once they did tip their hand, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it was all over, like the Intel relationship was done, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, just absolutely done, done. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And that they felt they had something special enough 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to the industry that it would change things massively 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     forever in terms of what people expect 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     from a performant chip and a performant portable machine, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     especially, and frankly, a performant machine of any sort, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     we'll see eventually, they knew that it would change things 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     so much overnight that they didn't, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they were afraid that it would get out too early. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And I think there was a lot of, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     a lot of secrecy and worry about that 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:44
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because they knew Intel was in fact screwed, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     from that perspective and unable to, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     at least very immediately compete in any real way, shape, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or form with these kinds, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the kind of performance that they were going to see. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And they were very, very nervous about it getting out 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:52:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because they knew, because it was a big thing. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:53:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - They were nervous about it, they stand back, you know. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, and I think that that also, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think slash actually no from talking to my friends, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that that is a big part of the explanation 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     of why the industrial design didn't change is secrecy, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that for a long stretch, when the go button was hit, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, everybody knew, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     everybody knew this was coming eventually, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but like when the, okay, we are actually off to the races 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and we're doing this for real 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:34
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and we're committing to it internally. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It was typical for Apple, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     even though this is like a major architecture change 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to their oldest and longest standing platform 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and biggest platform by scope, very few people knew. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so how do you keep the fewest people knowing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for the longest time? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:53:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Well, you start making hardware for late 2020 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that looks exactly the same. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Exactly, right. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Oh, by the way, we're gonna put this new motherboard in, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     don't worry about why, it's just, you know, it's cool. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You know, just a little change, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, yeah, you can keep the same fan, that's fine. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Don't worry. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Exactly, yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, but you know, little things like the webcam, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, right, you know, lots of people dunking 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on the webcam didn't change as a camera device. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's just that the image processing chain changed completely 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it improved dramatically, you know, it's still, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, it is what it is photographically, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but the picture quality is definitely bigger, better. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But, and I think also too, in addition to the secrecy, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     there was definitely a sort of, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     look, this is such a big change. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We know we can do it, but it's such a big change. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Every variable we can remove from the equation 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:54:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is reducing the chance of something going wrong. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yes, yes. - Right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And so look, we know that now that, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     once they fixed the keyboard and went back 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to a new scissor switch mechanism, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the hardware for these machines is fine. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You can say it's not exciting 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:15
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because it's been mostly unchanged, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     except for a keyboard that looks the same 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and just works the way it probably 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     should have worked all along. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     But removing variables while you're changing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the single biggest variable, the architecture. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - It's smart, yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:32
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's the smart way to play. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right, it's just, it's a scientific approach 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to doing it, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like just, you know, okay, we know this display, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     we know everything we need to know 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     about the display characteristics. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We know this hinge, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     This is a hinge for the display that we know 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is durable and pleasant, and let's, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:53
     ◼
      
     ► 
     let's not take the chance that we ship a new hinge 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and oh, in the real world-- 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - The M1 Macs are great, but they snap in half. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:55:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Oh man, you know? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right, right. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Or you know, all of a sudden, three months in it 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     starts squeaking or something like that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You don't have to worry about it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, then it becomes the squeak Mac pro or whatever, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you know, so yeah. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Gets meme-ified. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - But anyway, I do think, I, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     so the only other question I know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and I mentioned it on Daring Fireball, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and a few readers said, well, the other question 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in addition to whether Apple's gonna do their own GPUs 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is what are they gonna do about RAM on memory 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on high-level machines? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Is it always going to be on the chip for all the machines? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:56:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I think that the pro, I don't know about, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I would guess that even on the pro 16-inch MacBooks, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:46
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that they will still be on the chip, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     because they haven't offered user-upgradable RAM 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     on even MacBook Pros for a long time, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 01:56:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - So that's your way-- - Buy a configuration, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and that's your configuration. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:56:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - For the Mac Pro, I would guess, though, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that it will still be modular, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and that there's some different arc. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It just doesn't make sense that you would say, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:07
     ◼
      
     ► 
     if you're gonna build a machine 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that goes up to a terabyte of RAM, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the fact that they did a terabyte of RAM 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:13
     ◼
      
     ► 
     in the Intel Mac Pro, they're not gonna go back, right, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and say, oh, well, all of a sudden, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     now that we're on Apple Silicon, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     the most you can put in a Mac Pro 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:21
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is 256 gigabytes or something. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:24
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You don't make a machine capable of going up 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:26
     ◼
      
     ► 
     to a terabyte of RAM, and then say to somebody 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     who configures it with 256 gigabytes, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and they're obviously already spending a small fortune, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     oh, and if you ever decide you do need more, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     you've gotta buy a whole new machine. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah. - Yeah, it doesn't make sense. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, it doesn't. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I mean, there-- - I don't know how they do it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I don't know what the electrical engineering aspect of it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that they keep it as performant as having it on chip, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I would guess with memory on the desktops, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     it will still be modular in some way. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Maybe there will be some on the chip and some off, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:57:59
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I would guess that that will still be modular. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:01
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, that'd be my bet if you were gonna ask me 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     how, what would be the setup, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is there will still be some sort of base memory 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that is integrated, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:12
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that's the part of that universal pool. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And then additional memory for larger operations 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     would be off chip, and therefore, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     yes, would be less performant than integrated, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:23
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but I think that, let's say you were able to offer a Mac Pro 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you go, oh, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I'm gonna get the 32 gigabyte Mac Pro, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Or the 64 gigabyte Mac Pro, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then it's got RAM slots on it 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that you can add up to terabyte or two terabytes more 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:38
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or whatever, but the 32 gigabytes 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     is incredibly performant, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And you maybe don't use that external memory 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:48
     ◼
      
     ► 
     for many operations at all, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:50
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's only the operations that require 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     storing enormous textures or enormous libraries in them 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that it actually taps into them at all. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:58:58
     ◼
      
     ► 
     So the vast majority of your operations 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     are much more performant, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:03
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and then the small subset of those operations 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:06
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that require that larger memory pool 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:09
     ◼
      
     ► 
     are maybe slightly less performant, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:11
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but still get the benefits of UMA on top of it, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     so they're better than the Mac Pro previous, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:16
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like that's my, if I had to articulate the scenario, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that's the way I would look at it. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Right, right, like if you're doing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     some kind of data modeling 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:25
     ◼
      
     ► 
     or some kind of scientific computing 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     where you've got this, you know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     literally 200 gigabyte data model 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     that you wanna put in memory, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:36
     ◼
      
     ► 
     sure, that just goes off to that RAM, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and you can keep it there, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:42
     ◼
      
     ► 
     but, you know, I don't know, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:43
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I just feel like if they're gonna go up to that high, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:45
     ◼
      
     ► 
     they're not gonna, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     there would be too many SKUs, right? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:49
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Like you're gonna buy what? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:51
     ◼
      
     ► 
     64 gigabyte Mac Pro or 128 or 256. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You're gonna get a 512, you're gonna get a 768? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 01:59:57
     ◼
      
     ► 
     No, it's too many. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:00
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     - 768, man, I haven't heard that. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I haven't heard that number in a long time. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:04
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - I think that's the right number. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:06
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     ► 
     - The good old days, yeah, no, I mean, yeah, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:08
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     ► 
     it was the fractional RAM days. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:10
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     - You know you're a nerd 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:13
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     ► 
     when you think that's an even number. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, yeah, exactly. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:16
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     ► 
     You're like, ah, that number feels comfortable. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:18
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     ► 
     You're like, why? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:19
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Why would it feel comfortable? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:22
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Anyway, thank you so much. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:27
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Have a good holiday season, Matthew. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:28
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Thank you, you too. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:29
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - It's always good to talk to you. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:30
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Yeah, absolutely. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:31
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Anything else? 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:33
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Everybody can read your fine work 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:35
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and the work of your fine staff at TechCrunch. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:37
     ◼
      
     ► 
     You guys are still kicking ass over there. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:39
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Thank you kindly. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:40
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Making an attempt. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:41
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - And then on the Twitter, you're @panzer, P-A-N-Z-E-R. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:47
     ◼
      
     ► 
     Which endlessly frustrates my ability to communicate with you. 
     
     
  
 
 
 
	 02:00:52
     ◼
      
     ► 
     I start typing this shortcut, P-A-N-Z-E, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:54
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and it's like, no, that's not right. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:55
     ◼
      
     ► 
     It's good anyway. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:00:56
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And thanks to our sponsors. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:01:00
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We had Away, where you can buy a suitcase. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:01:02
     ◼
      
     ► 
     We had Collide, where they want you to read 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:01:05
     ◼
      
     ► 
     their honest security report at honest.security. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:01:08
     ◼
      
     ► 
     And Mack Weldon, where you can go 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:01:10
     ◼
      
     ► 
     and buy amazing menswear, underwear, 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:01:14
     ◼
      
     ► 
     jet hoodies, slippers, anything you want. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:01:17
     ◼
      
     ► 
     My thanks to them. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:01:18
     ◼
      
     ► 
     All right, adios Matthew. 
     
     
  
 
 
	 02:01:20
     ◼
      
     ► 
     - Thank you very much sir, appreciate it.