The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► it's free, but if you don't wear glasses, you're not welcome.

00:00:05 ◼   ► So anyway, the WWDC announcement went up today.

00:00:08 ◼   ► So we're lucky that we're recording this afternoon.

00:00:11 ◼   ► And the theme of the invitations, it's

00:00:15 ◼   ► a slew of widely diverse Memoji characters looking at opening

00:00:22 ◼   ► a creepily-- not creepily.

00:00:26 ◼   ► Craigily.

00:00:26 ◼   ► That's the wrong word.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Craigily.

00:00:28 ◼   ► Craigily opening a MacBook and having various icons

00:00:34 ◼   ► from the MacBook screen reflected in their glasses.

00:00:38 ◼   ► If you could only find someone to love you the way Craig loves that M1 Mac,

00:00:42 ◼   ► you'd do well in life.

00:00:44 ◼   ► That's such a fun--

00:00:45 ◼   ► they knew what they were doing when they did that, right?

00:00:52 ◼   ► It's not like they were surprised by the reaction.

00:00:54 ◼   ► And there is, from my interactions with Craig Federighi,

00:01:02 ◼   ► he's done my show a couple times, and I've

00:01:04 ◼   ► gotten to talk to him backstage.

00:01:06 ◼   ► He's the guy you think he is.

00:01:08 ◼   ► That is him.

00:01:11 ◼   ► So that's a fun little callback for the invitation.

00:01:13 ◼   ► But of course, people are going bananas, thinking that the fact

00:01:17 ◼   ► that they're all wearing glasses and that you see bits of software

00:01:21 ◼   ► reflected in the glasses is that it's a hint that the AR glasses

00:01:26 ◼   ► announcement might be coming at WWDC, to which I say maybe.

00:01:32 ◼   ► But I wouldn't bet on it.

00:01:34 ◼   ► What do you think?

00:01:35 ◼   ► I was more surprised and excited that it was Mac front and center

00:01:39 ◼   ► in the invitation.

00:01:41 ◼   ► Yeah, I like that too.

00:01:42 ◼   ► I totally dug that.

00:01:44 ◼   ► I thought that too.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Was it 2010 there wasn't even any Mac at WWDC?

00:01:50 ◼   ► One of those years.

00:01:51 ◼   ► Yeah, there was.

00:01:52 ◼   ► Or getting little tiny coffins ready.

00:01:55 ◼   ► There was a year of the Go-Go iOS era, which again, people read into that

00:02:00 ◼   ► and thought, well, this is a sure sign that the Mac is going away.

00:02:03 ◼   ► But it was really just a reaction to the crazy gold rush era of iOS developers

00:02:13 ◼   ► storming into the Apple platform.

00:02:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:17 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:02:18 ◼   ► What do you think about the invitation?

00:02:19 ◼   ► This year, no one's panicking that there's no iPhone in the invitation.

00:02:23 ◼   ► Yeah, right.

00:02:24 ◼   ► Nobody's reading into this that the iPhone is going away.

00:02:28 ◼   ► Yeah, I always like these because, well, you and I,

00:02:31 ◼   ► we know people who've been on or are on Apple's graphic design team.

00:02:35 ◼   ► And they just get given a brief.

00:02:36 ◼   ► They're not given any context, any background.

00:02:39 ◼   ► It would be great if it looked like bokeh lights.

00:02:42 ◼   ► Or it would be great if it looked like this and they just go off and make it.

00:02:46 ◼   ► And then they watch everyone talk about it on Twitter and laugh and drink.

00:02:49 ◼   ► And celebrate all this smart and dumb stuff that we say.

00:02:53 ◼   ► So this is just--

00:02:54 ◼   ► they probably just were told, the way Craig looked at that MacBook, that,

00:02:58 ◼   ► but with a diverse range of emoji.

00:03:01 ◼   ► Did you notice that one of the emoji is a fellow--

00:03:04 ◼   ► maybe there's more than one, but I don't know how many there are.

00:03:07 ◼   ► But there's one where the fellow's wearing a hearing aid.

00:03:11 ◼   ► I mean, just as a nice, to me, elevation of accessibility stuff

00:03:17 ◼   ► to being front and center on their list of diverse adjectives

00:03:23 ◼   ► to include in the characters.

00:03:25 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a smart nod, too.

00:03:27 ◼   ► And the WWDC Swift Scholarship has the same--

00:03:30 ◼   ► I believe it's the same person, but a younger version with a graduate cap

00:03:34 ◼   ► on to signify students, which is nice.

00:03:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:38 ◼   ► So what do you think?

00:03:39 ◼   ► Do you think glasses are coming?

00:03:41 ◼   ► I mean, they've got to be coming eventually.

00:03:43 ◼   ► Whether they're coming this year or not, I still

00:03:46 ◼   ► feel like something that could be an acceptable glasses product.

00:03:49 ◼   ► It's a little early.

00:03:50 ◼   ► Even if we assume that they're introducing frameworks

00:03:53 ◼   ► at WWDC that will give them a six month or one year lead time

00:03:57 ◼   ► before there's an actual product, or if there's a developer specific hardware

00:04:01 ◼   ► test the way there have been the Mac developer kit for the M1 processor.

00:04:07 ◼   ► Even if there's something like that, it still feels really early to me.

00:04:10 ◼   ► So I wonder if it's just, hey, we want to show

00:04:13 ◼   ► a little bit of software in this.

00:04:14 ◼   ► We could do reflections in glasses.

00:04:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:17 ◼   ► And I wrote in my little write up on Daring Fireball,

00:04:22 ◼   ► like there's also-- there's no way that Apple didn't realize

00:04:25 ◼   ► that people would read into this.

00:04:27 ◼   ► I think the most likely explanation is they

00:04:29 ◼   ► wanted to play off the Federighi thing from the M1 announcement.

00:04:35 ◼   ► The brief was that if some of the characters are wearing glasses,

00:04:39 ◼   ► they should all wear glasses because that's sort of the part of the--

00:04:44 ◼   ► if somebody-- if some of the characters weren't wearing glasses,

00:04:47 ◼   ► you wouldn't see the screen reflection.

00:04:48 ◼   ► And having those icons in the reflected lenses is like--

00:04:54 ◼   ► that's the art direction.

00:04:56 ◼   ► And the fact that people might read into it because Apple's AR VR efforts

00:05:01 ◼   ► are probably at the top of the list of anticipated products

00:05:08 ◼   ► that they might--

00:05:09 ◼   ► are apparently rumored to be working on.

00:05:12 ◼   ► So be it.

00:05:13 ◼   ► Because there's no harm done.

00:05:14 ◼   ► And it's not like, oh, if WWDC's keynote comes to pass

00:05:18 ◼   ► and there's no mention of any kind of glasses or goggles,

00:05:22 ◼   ► it's not like you could say that Apple ripped us off.

00:05:26 ◼   ► They just had characters wearing glasses.

00:05:27 ◼   ► It's sort of a free way to tease us if it's just a teaser.

00:05:31 ◼   ► And they keep doing it.

00:05:32 ◼   ► That's the thing is like--

00:05:33 ◼   ► I wonder if this is an elaborate troll at some point

00:05:36 ◼   ► because when there was the September event

00:05:38 ◼   ► and they had that AR logo that would morph and change,

00:05:41 ◼   ► everyone was sure that AR would be the big focus in September.

00:05:44 ◼   ► And then previous to that, one of the characters

00:05:47 ◼   ► was wearing glasses in the WWDC artwork.

00:05:49 ◼   ► And then Phil Schiller's Memoji got glasses.

00:05:51 ◼   ► And they were sure that that was a sign that we

00:05:53 ◼   ► were going to be getting the Apple.

00:05:55 ◼   ► I think we just want to see it so much that we lay it on anything.

00:05:58 ◼   ► And Apple's smart to sort of lean into it.

00:06:01 ◼   ► Right.

00:06:02 ◼   ► It might be.

00:06:03 ◼   ► Honestly, I wouldn't put this past them.

00:06:07 ◼   ► Like, the rumors are twofold.

00:06:10 ◼   ► And it makes sense because they're very different products.

00:06:12 ◼   ► There's the rumor of VR goggles that cover your screen like RoboCop.

00:06:20 ◼   ► And you're looking at a screen or two screens, really, one per eye.

00:06:25 ◼   ► One of the rumors is that there's two 8K displays, one for each eye.

00:06:30 ◼   ► And then a camera on the outside would show reality.

00:06:34 ◼   ► So it's like you're wearing a camera on your eyes.

00:06:38 ◼   ► And then the other product would be the AR glasses, where you're just

00:06:43 ◼   ► wearing see-through glasses.

00:06:45 ◼   ► Like, if the battery was out, you'd still be able to see through them.

00:06:48 ◼   ► They look like regular prescription eyeglasses,

00:06:52 ◼   ► but somehow project an image onto the lenses.

00:06:58 ◼   ► Google glasses, remember those?

00:07:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:01 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely.

00:07:02 ◼   ► Google glasses were sort of along those lines.

00:07:05 ◼   ► I think that they had a screen that--

00:07:07 ◼   ► you could actually see the little screen, and it only

00:07:09 ◼   ► projected it onto the one lens.

00:07:11 ◼   ► It was like the Borg.

00:07:12 ◼   ► It was like that little Borg--

00:07:14 ◼   ► like, cute as a Borg thing in front of your face.

00:07:16 ◼   ► Right.

00:07:16 ◼   ► And according to the rumor mill--

00:07:19 ◼   ► and this is why I wanted you on the show this week.

00:07:22 ◼   ► This is the rumor episode of the talk show.

00:07:24 ◼   ► According to the rumor mill, the VR product

00:07:30 ◼   ► is closer to shipping than the AR product, which would be like,

00:07:36 ◼   ► you would just go get prescription glasses

00:07:38 ◼   ► and have a magical heads-up display in front of you

00:07:42 ◼   ► and an interaction model.

00:07:44 ◼   ► And that makes sense, but that is true, right?

00:07:47 ◼   ► Like, the rumor mill is sort of like, maybe the VR thing is a 2022 thing,

00:07:50 ◼   ► and the AR thing is maybe a 2023 thing.

00:07:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:55 ◼   ► Yeah, and it makes sense to me, having both those products--

00:07:58 ◼   ► and I don't mean that it's happenstance-ual that they're both under--

00:08:03 ◼   ► you know, Dan Riccio now, they're both in the same special projects group.

00:08:06 ◼   ► But I think it's two products, like, really two focuses.

00:08:09 ◼   ► The VR headset sounds like a next-generation Apple TV.

00:08:12 ◼   ► You know, Apple's never going to make a television set.

00:08:15 ◼   ► There's no margin in it.

00:08:16 ◼   ► There's no really good update path in it.

00:08:18 ◼   ► But a VR headset could take all the entertainment, all the gaming,

00:08:22 ◼   ► all the fitness plus stuff, just all the content that Apple's working on,

00:08:26 ◼   ► and turn it into a device that each person has to buy their own,

00:08:29 ◼   ► basically, at a really high premium, perfect Apple product.

00:08:33 ◼   ► And then the glasses sound like a next-generation Apple Watch,

00:08:35 ◼   ► where it's wearable.

00:08:36 ◼   ► It's tricked out.

00:08:37 ◼   ► It's even more convenient.

00:08:38 ◼   ► You don't even have to lift your wrist anymore.

00:08:40 ◼   ► The notifications, the sensors are all just built right in front of your face.

00:08:44 ◼   ► And that sort of takes the Apple Watch into the future.

00:08:47 ◼   ► And both those things make a lot of sense to me as distinct things,

00:08:50 ◼   ► not like a holdover between one and the other.

00:08:53 ◼   ► Right.

00:08:53 ◼   ► So given that loose timeline-- and it makes sense

00:08:57 ◼   ► that the AR product would be further ahead, harder to make, right?

00:09:02 ◼   ► Like this VR product is more or less an iPhone in front of your face.

00:09:09 ◼   ► And a little different--

00:09:10 ◼   ► And it can have vents and a fan and can run an M1-style processor,

00:09:13 ◼   ► like all those things.

00:09:16 ◼   ► No vents, no fan.

00:09:17 ◼   ► But you know.

00:09:18 ◼   ► No, I'm sure they're going to--

00:09:19 ◼   ► I think if they want the amount of-- because remember,

00:09:21 ◼   ► the rumor was they're going to have a separate box,

00:09:23 ◼   ► and Johnny kiboshed that.

00:09:24 ◼   ► So they're going to put all that compute power in.

00:09:26 ◼   ► They need something as big as a VR headset

00:09:28 ◼   ► to put all that compute power in.

00:09:30 ◼   ► You really think that-- you were serious.

00:09:32 ◼   ► I thought you were making a joke.

00:09:33 ◼   ► I don't think there'll be any vents or fan.

00:09:34 ◼   ► There's no vents or fan in the box.

00:09:35 ◼   ► Well, I don't think fan, but like--

00:09:37 ◼   ► sort of like what they're doing with the Mac.

00:09:38 ◼   ► It's like I can't hear what they're doing with the M1 MacBook Pro,

00:09:42 ◼   ► but it's better than no cooling.

00:09:45 ◼   ► But if the MacBook Air doesn't need a fan,

00:09:49 ◼   ► I can't help but believe that they're working on a product that--

00:09:52 ◼   ► That was one of the rumors.

00:09:52 ◼   ► So I would rather not have it either, but that

00:09:54 ◼   ► was listed high up in the information's rumors.

00:09:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

00:09:59 ◼   ► And I thought that-- I always thought that rumor back when Johnny was there.

00:10:03 ◼   ► I just didn't-- the idea that it would be tethered to a box at all

00:10:07 ◼   ► just seems like a nonstarter.

00:10:10 ◼   ► I never believed that.

00:10:12 ◼   ► I think the product has to be completely untethered.

00:10:15 ◼   ► Same.

00:10:17 ◼   ► But anyway, to go with what I'm thinking in my Kremlinology aspect

00:10:22 ◼   ► of looking into these WWDC announcements,

00:10:25 ◼   ► and maybe even the little subtle things like Phil Schiller's

00:10:28 ◼   ► Memoji getting glasses over--

00:10:32 ◼   ► is that they're just subtly making--

00:10:34 ◼   ► hey, it's cool to wear eyeglasses all the time.

00:10:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:38 ◼   ► Right?

00:10:39 ◼   ► That's--

00:10:40 ◼   ► Boiling water.

00:10:41 ◼   ► Yeah, I even think Memoji are like that,

00:10:46 ◼   ► just getting people used to having an AR presence.

00:10:48 ◼   ► Because it's not going to be comfortable for a lot of people.

00:10:51 ◼   ► But if they get us in there with the iPhone, the iPad early,

00:10:53 ◼   ► they get us to make our fun little Memoji characters

00:10:56 ◼   ► so we're used to seeing avatars of ourselves in an AR world.

00:10:59 ◼   ► I think all of this stuff is really smart premarketing

00:11:02 ◼   ► for those products.

00:11:04 ◼   ► I mean, that's the thing about the AR glasses.

00:11:06 ◼   ► It's like, before the Apple Watch, a lot of people--

00:11:10 ◼   ► commonly, very commonly--

00:11:11 ◼   ► I hear it now, but a little bit less so.

00:11:13 ◼   ► But a lot of people were like, I don't wear a watch.

00:11:15 ◼   ► So I don't-- and watch--

00:11:18 ◼   ► I don't know what the percentage of adults wearing wristwatches

00:11:22 ◼   ► was pre-Apple Watch.

00:11:26 ◼   ► But it certainly-- I would wager with certainty

00:11:30 ◼   ► that it skewed lower as a percentage

00:11:34 ◼   ► as you go lower in age brackets.

00:11:36 ◼   ► That the younger people are, the less likely

00:11:38 ◼   ► they were to regularly wear a wristwatch.

00:11:43 ◼   ► And it makes a ton of sense.

00:11:46 ◼   ► And the most common explanation is, why would I wear a watch?

00:11:48 ◼   ► I have a phone with me.

00:11:50 ◼   ► If I ever need to check the time, I look at my phone.

00:11:52 ◼   ► And it's sort of like the phone as the return of the pocket

00:11:55 ◼   ► watch.

00:11:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:57 ◼   ► That makes sense.

00:11:59 ◼   ► But the pitch for, OK, you--

00:12:05 ◼   ► the pitch for you always wore a watch,

00:12:09 ◼   ► and now we want you to wear an Apple Watch is easier,

00:12:14 ◼   ► I think, than you never wore a watch,

00:12:16 ◼   ► and now we want you to wear an Apple Watch.

00:12:19 ◼   ► But even so, it's like asking you to overcome the,

00:12:24 ◼   ► well, I'm not used to having a thing that I can feel

00:12:28 ◼   ► on my wrist, and it feels weird because I never wear a watch.

00:12:31 ◼   ► But it doesn't really affect the way you look.

00:12:34 ◼   ► Whereas, if you have perfectly good vision,

00:12:38 ◼   ► or you wear contact lenses, asking

00:12:42 ◼   ► you to spend all day wearing glasses is a big ask.

00:12:46 ◼   ► I mean, we don't know anything about this product.

00:12:48 ◼   ► I realize this is two years out.

00:12:50 ◼   ► But it is-- it's a weird thing, and it affects the way people

00:12:55 ◼   ► look significantly.

00:12:56 ◼   ► People look different wearing glasses,

00:12:58 ◼   ► and they might not want to do it.

00:12:59 ◼   ► And I can say, as somebody who spent 40-some years wearing

00:13:03 ◼   ► contact lenses, and the last two or three years full-time

00:13:07 ◼   ► wearing glasses, wearing glasses sucks.

00:13:09 ◼   ► Yes.

00:13:11 ◼   ► Yeah, no, same.

00:13:12 ◼   ► And the other thing that's sort of inopportune about this

00:13:17 ◼   ► is people do wear sunglasses.

00:13:18 ◼   ► Famously, people love to wear sunglasses.

00:13:20 ◼   ► People with perfect vision wear sunglasses a lot.

00:13:23 ◼   ► But it sounds like the technology

00:13:24 ◼   ► to make it work on sunglasses is harder

00:13:26 ◼   ► than to make it work on clear glasses.

00:13:28 ◼   ► Right, and so again, it's a real sci-fi-sounding product

00:13:34 ◼   ► at this point.

00:13:34 ◼   ► But it's like, let's say you do get it.

00:13:37 ◼   ► You're like, well, I do wear glasses.

00:13:39 ◼   ► So I'll just switch to wearing Apple glasses.

00:13:45 ◼   ► And the heads-up information proves

00:13:47 ◼   ► to be extremely useful and addictive.

00:13:50 ◼   ► And you're like, oh, I can't imagine going back

00:13:53 ◼   ► to not wearing Apple glasses.

00:13:56 ◼   ► But then you're going out in the sunshine,

00:13:58 ◼   ► and you have to swap them for other glasses.

00:14:01 ◼   ► And you miss-- now you don't have a glass.

00:14:03 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:14:03 ◼   ► I don't know what the solution is.

00:14:05 ◼   ► And I realize it's years away.

00:14:06 ◼   ► But I feel like it's got to be solved.

00:14:09 ◼   ► And I don't know that it's ever going to work to get those--

00:14:12 ◼   ► what do they call them?

00:14:14 ◼   ► Not progressives.

00:14:15 ◼   ► Yeah, transitions, which always look weird to me when people

00:14:19 ◼   ► come in from the sunshine, and it

00:14:21 ◼   ► looks like they're trying to look cool wearing sunglasses.

00:14:26 ◼   ► But maybe that's one of those things

00:14:28 ◼   ► where Apple can surprise us with their engineering

00:14:31 ◼   ► expertise in a materials field outside computer.

00:14:36 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:14:37 ◼   ► And then I think Kuo Ming-Chi said

00:14:39 ◼   ► that they're trying to make it into contact lenses for, like,

00:14:41 ◼   ► 2030 or something.

00:14:43 ◼   ► That seems pretty far out.

00:14:45 ◼   ► But again, we've seen it in sci-fi movies for years.

00:14:50 ◼   ► So surely it's coming, because everything always comes true.

00:14:53 ◼   ► Yeah, well, then one day we'll do Old Man Gruber's talk show

00:14:56 ◼   ► and talk about Apple cybernetics.

00:14:57 ◼   ► I mean, everything's coming.

00:14:58 ◼   ► Which implant series did you get?

00:15:03 ◼   ► 2.0 implant was so much better, I should have waited.

00:15:05 ◼   ► The other thing, the thing about Apple invitations,

00:15:08 ◼   ► I always feel like there's more to read into the slogans

00:15:11 ◼   ► than the artwork.

00:15:13 ◼   ► So they had the Time Flies event last September.

00:15:16 ◼   ► And I thought, well, that means the headliner of this event

00:15:19 ◼   ► is going to be the watch.

00:15:21 ◼   ► And then other people had these complicated explanations

00:15:25 ◼   ► for how, no, no, no, that actually means

00:15:28 ◼   ► the iPhones are coming in September.

00:15:31 ◼   ► I was like, no, Time Flies really

00:15:32 ◼   ► sounds like the watch to me.

00:15:35 ◼   ► Yeah, it's either the watch or flight,

00:15:36 ◼   ► and I'm pretty sure they don't have flight.

00:15:40 ◼   ► What was another good one?

00:15:41 ◼   ► I think There's Something in the Air.

00:15:43 ◼   ► Remember that one?

00:15:45 ◼   ► And it was at, I think it was at a WWDC.

00:15:48 ◼   ► Maybe it was a Macworld.

00:15:49 ◼   ► But I remember the banners were hanging in Moscone,

00:15:52 ◼   ► and it was one of those years where the banners were

00:15:55 ◼   ► photographed by long lens sharpshooters

00:15:59 ◼   ► from across the street in advance.

00:16:01 ◼   ► And if I'm recalling correctly, There's Something in the Air

00:16:07 ◼   ► was just, that was going to be the MacBook Air.

00:16:10 ◼   ► And that was the year that Steve Jobs famously took it out

00:16:13 ◼   ► of a Manila envelope.

00:16:15 ◼   ► But I remember there were people who

00:16:16 ◼   ► thought it meant that they had a partnership with Adobe

00:16:19 ◼   ► to make Adobe Air a new developer platform.

00:16:22 ◼   ► And it's like, no, no, they're not going--

00:16:28 ◼   ► they've been swimming against the tide in all things

00:16:30 ◼   ► developer related to own the full stack.

00:16:33 ◼   ► They're not going to--

00:16:36 ◼   ► and it was like Adobe Air doesn't

00:16:37 ◼   ► seem like it's going anywhere.

00:16:39 ◼   ► Occam's Razor, I think, is not often applied when

00:16:42 ◼   ► it comes to Apple invitations.

00:16:44 ◼   ► Right.

00:16:44 ◼   ► There's no slogan for this.

00:16:45 ◼   ► It's just WWDC 21.

00:16:47 ◼   ► The dates--

00:16:49 ◼   ► The glow, right?

00:16:50 ◼   ► Is the glow a slogan?

00:16:51 ◼   ► I don't think so.

00:16:52 ◼   ► Is it?

00:16:54 ◼   ► I mean, it's such a weird slogan.

00:16:57 ◼   ► What is it again?

00:17:00 ◼   ► Glow--

00:17:02 ◼   ► Oh, there is a slogan?

00:17:03 ◼   ► Yeah, it's on the development-- glow and behold.

00:17:06 ◼   ► Oh.

00:17:07 ◼   ► Oh, I didn't see that.

00:17:09 ◼   ► If you go to developer.apple.com/WWDC21,

00:17:12 ◼   ► the Craig book opens.

00:17:14 ◼   ► And then it just says glow and behold.

00:17:17 ◼   ► With a period, which is-- millennials

00:17:19 ◼   ► are going to read as hostile.

00:17:22 ◼   ► Oh, they need to get over that.

00:17:23 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:17:27 ◼   ► I've got my son trained.

00:17:28 ◼   ► He knows that I had my text with a period.

00:17:31 ◼   ► That doesn't mean anything.

00:17:34 ◼   ► I'm going to say that that means nothing,

00:17:35 ◼   ► and that it's just a play on the art direction,

00:17:37 ◼   ► and that maybe it's like they have a--

00:17:43 ◼   ► because they don't want to hint at anything specific,

00:17:45 ◼   ► they're just going to play off the gimmick of the Craig

00:17:48 ◼   ► Federighi style glow and behold, and that there is nothing

00:17:51 ◼   ► to read into it in terms of any specific announcements.

00:17:56 ◼   ► And it's not like they can just redo the Mac OS interface again

00:17:59 ◼   ► after last year and make everything glow.

00:18:01 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:18:03 ◼   ► That'd be terrible.

00:18:04 ◼   ► There'll be light mode, dark mode, and romance mode,

00:18:06 ◼   ► which is a rosy color for Craig.

00:18:07 ◼   ► Oh my god, that would be horrible.

00:18:09 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:18:12 ◼   ► All right, let me take a break and thank our first sponsor.

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00:19:44 ◼   ► this episode of the talk show.

00:19:46 ◼   ► Well-timed for a developer tool.

00:19:48 ◼   ► So timing-wise, maybe we're not so lucky recording today,

00:19:55 ◼   ► because we got to talk about the WWDC news coming out.

00:20:01 ◼   ► But people are expecting an April event.

00:20:05 ◼   ► Some people were expecting a March 23 event.

00:20:09 ◼   ► It seems like Apple is due for a product announcement event.

00:20:12 ◼   ► They often hold events in late March, early April.

00:20:17 ◼   ► Seems like they have a bunch of pending products,

00:20:21 ◼   ► but no announcement yet.

00:20:23 ◼   ► And today is Tuesday, as we record, Tuesday the 30th.

00:20:29 ◼   ► Why is it that we were thinking April 7th as an event day,

00:20:35 ◼   ► which is a Wednesday, instead of April 6th, which is a Tuesday?

00:20:38 ◼   ► Apple has such a weird--

00:20:42 ◼   ► September has almost always been iPod and then iPhone,

00:20:45 ◼   ► and October has been recently a lot about the Mac.

00:20:49 ◼   ► But March has varied so much.

00:20:51 ◼   ► Even if you discount 2020, because there was no event,

00:20:53 ◼   ► it was 2020.

00:20:54 ◼   ► The year before that, it was the services event,

00:20:57 ◼   ► where they did TV Plus and Arcade.

00:20:59 ◼   ► And then they announced products like the AirPods 2

00:21:02 ◼   ► in press releases around it, the iPad Mini, the iPad Air.

00:21:06 ◼   ► The year before that, it was the education event in Chicago,

00:21:09 ◼   ► where they did announce the low-price iPad.

00:21:12 ◼   ► But mostly, it was a lot of educational initiatives.

00:21:15 ◼   ► But then they've also done things like the 2015--

00:21:18 ◼   ► they did the 12-inch MacBook, big product,

00:21:22 ◼   ► and a lot of the Apple Watch stuff.

00:21:23 ◼   ► So it seems like this is the event that just

00:21:25 ◼   ► does whatever they need it to do in the spring.

00:21:27 ◼   ► Right.

00:21:27 ◼   ► Things that aren't necessarily on a regular schedule.

00:21:30 ◼   ► The iPad Pros, for example, have been on not a random schedule,

00:21:35 ◼   ► but a somewhat irregular schedule.

00:21:38 ◼   ► Like last year's--

00:21:39 ◼   ► Like 18 months-ish?

00:21:40 ◼   ► Yeah, and last year's were a unique upgrade,

00:21:45 ◼   ► where it was just going from the A12X to the A12Z.

00:21:50 ◼   ► And the only difference was that the GPU went from seven cores

00:21:53 ◼   ► to eight cores.

00:21:55 ◼   ► And they added the LIDAR center.

00:21:58 ◼   ► The wide angle, yeah.

00:21:59 ◼   ► So that was a weird update.

00:22:04 ◼   ► I think we're--

00:22:05 ◼   ► And the Magic Keyboard was new.

00:22:06 ◼   ► We got the Magic Keyboard and iPhone SE.

00:22:08 ◼   ► Right, and the update to iPad OS to support the trackpad--

00:22:12 ◼   ► Yes.

00:22:13 ◼   ► --and mouse system-wide, which was, in my opinion,

00:22:16 ◼   ► a bigger deal than the actual hardware.

00:22:18 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:22:23 ◼   ► I kind of feel-- and people are going to have to--

00:22:26 ◼   ► this episode won't air until tomorrow, the 31st.

00:22:29 ◼   ► I would say there's more than a 50% chance that we'll

00:22:36 ◼   ► get an announcement tomorrow that there's

00:22:39 ◼   ► going to be an event seven days later on April 7th.

00:22:44 ◼   ► I'm going to put the odds at 60%.

00:22:49 ◼   ► But if it happens, people will have

00:22:51 ◼   ► to take my word for it that we were recording this

00:22:53 ◼   ► on the 30th.

00:22:55 ◼   ► What do you think?

00:22:56 ◼   ► Is there a significance to the--

00:22:58 ◼   ► because is there something in the US or a holiday

00:23:00 ◼   ► or anything that would push it from a Tuesday to a Wednesday

00:23:03 ◼   ► this month?

00:23:03 ◼   ► I can't think.

00:23:04 ◼   ► The Easter is on Sunday.

00:23:06 ◼   ► That's true.

00:23:07 ◼   ► But why would that preclude using Tuesday?

00:23:11 ◼   ► Even Monday after Easter isn't really considered a holiday.

00:23:15 ◼   ► They don't do events on Monday.

00:23:16 ◼   ► They typically only do them on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.

00:23:19 ◼   ► And maybe there's one weird example

00:23:22 ◼   ► where there was one on a Thursday.

00:23:24 ◼   ► But Tuesday and Wednesday are usually the days.

00:23:27 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:23:28 ◼   ► And maybe they announce it tomorrow,

00:23:30 ◼   ► and it's Tuesday the 6th.

00:23:31 ◼   ► I still think, though, that the announcement

00:23:33 ◼   ► could come tomorrow.

00:23:34 ◼   ► And because nobody has to travel for these things,

00:23:37 ◼   ► there's not that much reason to worry

00:23:39 ◼   ► about giving people six days notice or seven days notice.

00:23:43 ◼   ► And then the PR flow is, OK, today the WWDC announcement

00:23:50 ◼   ► takes up all the Apple cycles and puts

00:23:54 ◼   ► the date on the calendar, gets people talking about it.

00:23:57 ◼   ► Then, boom, the next day, hey, we have an event next week,

00:24:00 ◼   ► some kind of clever slogan with--

00:24:03 ◼   ► I don't know which event--

00:24:04 ◼   ► which product might be the one that gets the pun title--

00:24:09 ◼   ► keeps people talking about that for six days.

00:24:12 ◼   ► And then the actual event happens,

00:24:13 ◼   ► and they release these things.

00:24:15 ◼   ► I could see that being the plan.

00:24:18 ◼   ► And if it's not next week, then I

00:24:20 ◼   ► would think it's definitely the week after that.

00:24:23 ◼   ► I just feel like it's bursting at the seams at this point

00:24:26 ◼   ► to release some of this stuff.

00:24:28 ◼   ► Yeah, it feels like there's a bunch of products just

00:24:30 ◼   ► at Apple Park that just keep slamming against that door,

00:24:33 ◼   ► saying, let us out.

00:24:34 ◼   ► Let us out.

00:24:35 ◼   ► Right, so what would you--

00:24:37 ◼   ► I mean, do you agree that there's

00:24:38 ◼   ► got to be an April event?

00:24:41 ◼   ► Yeah, I think any time that--

00:24:43 ◼   ► if it's just iterative update stuff,

00:24:45 ◼   ► like the Intel MacBook Air with the non-butterfly

00:24:49 ◼   ► with the scissor key keyboard, that kind of stuff,

00:24:52 ◼   ► they can drop in a press release, no problem.

00:24:54 ◼   ► AirPods, too, no problem.

00:24:55 ◼   ► We know what AirPods are.

00:24:57 ◼   ► But any time they need to explain something,

00:24:58 ◼   ► it really, really behooves them to have an event.

00:25:01 ◼   ► And if there is anything significant about the iPad Pro,

00:25:04 ◼   ► like some of the rumors suggest, or just if they do finally

00:25:07 ◼   ► release AirTags, there are things

00:25:10 ◼   ► that I would like Apple to get ahead of,

00:25:12 ◼   ► because I can just anticipate a whole bunch of really

00:25:15 ◼   ► sensational headlines if Apple doesn't

00:25:17 ◼   ► have a good story in place.

00:25:19 ◼   ► They're going to do it anyway.

00:25:20 ◼   ► But I just think it'd be good for Apple

00:25:23 ◼   ► to get ahead of these products and sort of present

00:25:25 ◼   ► their case on stage for them.

00:25:27 ◼   ► Yeah, any one of them--

00:25:29 ◼   ► I mean, one good rule of thumb is even with the virtual events,

00:25:33 ◼   ► Apple is keen not to waste our time.

00:25:37 ◼   ► And they're not going to have even a 45-minute event just

00:25:40 ◼   ► to unveil new AirPods.

00:25:44 ◼   ► And I don't think they would--

00:25:45 ◼   ► they're not going to hold an event just to have a 15-minute--

00:25:49 ◼   ► they're not going to do a 15-minute event,

00:25:51 ◼   ► I don't think, if it was just AirPods.

00:25:58 ◼   ► But on the other hand, if they're

00:25:59 ◼   ► going to have a late March, early April episode of the Apple

00:26:04 ◼   ► event show, and there are just new third-generation AirPods,

00:26:11 ◼   ► well, let's give them 5 to 10 minutes

00:26:14 ◼   ► and talk about what a success AirPods have been out

00:26:17 ◼   ► in the world and how they're the number one whatever

00:26:20 ◼   ► way of phrasing it as the number one wireless AirPods

00:26:24 ◼   ► in the world.

00:26:27 ◼   ► And here's what's great about our most popular AirPods,

00:26:30 ◼   ► the regular AirPods.

00:26:32 ◼   ► And here's what's great about the new ones.

00:26:35 ◼   ► I would definitely give them time--

00:26:37 ◼   ► if I were them, I would see them giving them time

00:26:40 ◼   ► that they otherwise wouldn't get on their own

00:26:42 ◼   ► if it was the only thing.

00:26:44 ◼   ► My hope, my dream for this event would be the new iPad Pro,

00:26:49 ◼   ► the new Apple TV, and AirTags, because I am so ready for all

00:26:52 ◼   ► three of those things.

00:26:54 ◼   ► And if they have to sacrifice AirPods

00:26:56 ◼   ► to a press release or even a fall event

00:26:58 ◼   ► to give me those things, just sign me right up.

00:27:01 ◼   ► I think that they're good, though, especially

00:27:03 ◼   ► with the online format where there's not as much boilerplate

00:27:10 ◼   ► of, OK, we're on stage, and now we're going to introduce--

00:27:14 ◼   ► and not that those handoffs of, and now I'm

00:27:17 ◼   ► going to call so-and-so out to tell you about blank,

00:27:21 ◼   ► not that that takes a lot of time,

00:27:22 ◼   ► and they're always right in the wings,

00:27:24 ◼   ► and they're halfway out on the stage ready to take

00:27:26 ◼   ► the clicker from whoever's handing it off to them.

00:27:29 ◼   ► But it adds up in a way that they edit all of that

00:27:34 ◼   ► out with the online show version.

00:27:39 ◼   ► So HomePod Mini didn't take a lot of time in whatever event

00:27:45 ◼   ► that was where the HomePod Mini came out.

00:27:47 ◼   ► Plus you get that cool bottle city of Kandor special effect

00:27:50 ◼   ► when it was hiding behind him.

00:27:51 ◼   ► Right.

00:27:52 ◼   ► So I would say AirPods is probably the boringest thing,

00:27:55 ◼   ► right, because the idea would be it's

00:27:57 ◼   ► just a new version of the standard AirPods

00:28:00 ◼   ► without noise cancellation, but with it supposedly

00:28:03 ◼   ► with an industrial design that looks a lot like the AirPods

00:28:07 ◼   ► Pro.

00:28:08 ◼   ► Different ear shape, and I wonder

00:28:11 ◼   ► if they'll still have the rubber tips,

00:28:13 ◼   ► if that will become standard with the sizable rubber

00:28:16 ◼   ► tips like the AirPods Pro.

00:28:20 ◼   ► Is it a problem if they look indistinguishable

00:28:23 ◼   ► from AirPods Pro?

00:28:25 ◼   ► I think it's less the problem with the AirPods Pro.

00:28:27 ◼   ► Some of the rumors had-- like some of the leaked images

00:28:30 ◼   ► had tips or looked like they could have tips

00:28:32 ◼   ► or didn't have tips.

00:28:33 ◼   ► Right.

00:28:34 ◼   ► So it seems like it's still up in the air.

00:28:35 ◼   ► But a lot of people don't like-- like they're--

00:28:37 ◼   ► right now, some people don't like the AirPod,

00:28:40 ◼   ► the classic AirPods, because they don't stay in their ear.

00:28:42 ◼   ► So they get the AirPods Pro, and they like the tips.

00:28:46 ◼   ► Other people don't like having anything in their ear.

00:28:48 ◼   ► It either bothers them or is actually painful for them.

00:28:51 ◼   ► So they get the AirPods, and they

00:28:52 ◼   ► have that choice in products.

00:28:55 ◼   ► So this looks like it's trying to be a middle ground.

00:28:57 ◼   ► And maybe the tips will even be optional, which would be great.

00:29:00 ◼   ► Apple's not famous for giving you options,

00:29:02 ◼   ► but maybe they will be.

00:29:03 ◼   ► But I hope at least the people who prefer not to have them

00:29:06 ◼   ► still have an option.

00:29:07 ◼   ► Yeah, my son has regular AirPods,

00:29:09 ◼   ► and has tried my AirPods Pro and claims to hate them.

00:29:12 ◼   ► Like, he hasn't warned them long enough

00:29:16 ◼   ► to really give him a chance.

00:29:17 ◼   ► But he just-- he just--

00:29:18 ◼   ► he just like, ah, I don't like the feel of that in my ear.

00:29:21 ◼   ► It doesn't want.

00:29:22 ◼   ► So it's hard.

00:29:23 ◼   ► It's hard to please everybody.

00:29:25 ◼   ► I mean, putting things in your ear, just size alone,

00:29:28 ◼   ► it's hard to get one size fits all.

00:29:31 ◼   ► But--

00:29:31 ◼   ► And that was a problem with the AirPods.

00:29:32 ◼   ► Like, it was good for 80% of the people,

00:29:34 ◼   ► but then 20% of the people, they just fell out all the time,

00:29:36 ◼   ► and that's not great either.

00:29:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:39 ◼   ► What else?

00:29:40 ◼   ► iPad-- new iPad Pros.

00:29:43 ◼   ► Let's go in reverse order of novelty, right?

00:29:47 ◼   ► OK.

00:29:47 ◼   ► Because I'm going to say new iPad Pros seem like as close

00:29:54 ◼   ► to a sure thing as possible, because it's

00:29:56 ◼   ► an important product for Apple.

00:29:57 ◼   ► And like I said, last year's was just truly just a minor GPU

00:30:02 ◼   ► speed bump.

00:30:04 ◼   ► And the LiDAR camera, I always give poor LiDAR engineers.

00:30:08 ◼   ► I don't really give you much--

00:30:09 ◼   ► I just don't think people are using

00:30:12 ◼   ► LiDAR cameras on their iPad very often, to be honest.

00:30:16 ◼   ► No, that always felt like a developer-centric move.

00:30:18 ◼   ► You get it out in people's hands earlier.

00:30:20 ◼   ► Yeah, before the iPhone shipped with LiDAR.

00:30:23 ◼   ► And maybe it would become a bigger deal for the iPad

00:30:26 ◼   ► if the new iPad Pros used the LiDAR to help with low light

00:30:31 ◼   ► autofocus the way that the iPhone 12 cameras do.

00:30:36 ◼   ► Well, that was so weird.

00:30:37 ◼   ► It's like the iPad came out with the LiDAR,

00:30:39 ◼   ► and they didn't hook it up to the camera app at all.

00:30:41 ◼   ► It was one of the most un-Apple-like things

00:30:43 ◼   ► I've ever encountered.

00:30:44 ◼   ► If you press the portrait-only button,

00:30:46 ◼   ► it flipped the camera around into the TrueDepth camera,

00:30:49 ◼   ► which is not intuitive at all.

00:30:51 ◼   ► And I thought that they were just super busy

00:30:53 ◼   ► and that we'd get it with iOS 14 in September

00:30:55 ◼   ► when the iPhone got it, and we still never got it.

00:30:57 ◼   ► No, they never had--

00:31:00 ◼   ► either they don't want to do the work,

00:31:01 ◼   ► or there's something lacking in the hardware camera that

00:31:05 ◼   ► prevents them from doing it up to what

00:31:08 ◼   ► they would view as useful.

00:31:10 ◼   ► So I'm going to say it's overdue.

00:31:13 ◼   ► So there was never an A13 generation iPad Pro.

00:31:16 ◼   ► A14X seems like a likely bet.

00:31:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:21 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that's true.

00:31:22 ◼   ► And I'm super fascinated, because a lot of people,

00:31:25 ◼   ► as soon as they saw the M1, they're like, we want that on an iPad.

00:31:28 ◼   ► But the M1 was essentially an A14X with just a little bit

00:31:31 ◼   ► of extra Mac-specific IP, like the virtualization,

00:31:34 ◼   ► the emulation, and the two Thunderbolt controllers.

00:31:37 ◼   ► So that's basically what we're going

00:31:38 ◼   ► to get in terms of just silicon power in the iPad Pro.

00:31:42 ◼   ► One of the interesting rumors--

00:31:44 ◼   ► and I made a little bit of hay out of it

00:31:46 ◼   ► when I linked to Mark Gurman's post on the iPad Pros--

00:31:50 ◼   ► is the rumor that they might switch to mini LED screens.

00:31:56 ◼   ► And according to the rumor mill, perhaps only in the larger 12.9

00:32:03 ◼   ► inch iPad Pro.

00:32:06 ◼   ► And that Apple-- the part I made hay over

00:32:08 ◼   ► was two weeks ago describing it as something Apple

00:32:11 ◼   ► was looking into.

00:32:14 ◼   ► Yeah, and they were testing Thunderbolt two weeks ago.

00:32:16 ◼   ► It's such odd language that Bloomberg uses.

00:32:19 ◼   ► You're not testing something that's close to release.

00:32:22 ◼   ► This mini LED rumor has been out there for a while.

00:32:27 ◼   ► The iPhones have, of course, switched to OLED.

00:32:33 ◼   ► The iPad Pros still using ancient, decrepit, regular LED

00:32:42 ◼   ► technology.

00:32:44 ◼   ► What is it?

00:32:45 ◼   ► Yeah, it's LCD with an LED backlight.

00:32:46 ◼   ► LCD with an LED backlight.

00:32:49 ◼   ► They're great looking displays.

00:32:51 ◼   ► But Apple moves fast on display technology.

00:32:55 ◼   ► Mini LED is supposedly next.

00:32:59 ◼   ► What is your understanding of why they would go OLED for phones,

00:33:06 ◼   ► but mini LED for iPads?

00:33:09 ◼   ► Why would there never be an OLED generation of iPads?

00:33:14 ◼   ► So I mean, there might.

00:33:15 ◼   ► There's a couple of things.

00:33:17 ◼   ► All of this stuff is kind of nerdy,

00:33:19 ◼   ► but I think this audience really appreciates that.

00:33:21 ◼   ► OLED is a terrific, but fundamentally flawed technology

00:33:25 ◼   ► where you require a ton of mitigations,

00:33:27 ◼   ► like you've got to mitigate against burn-in, off-axis

00:33:29 ◼   ► color shifting.

00:33:31 ◼   ► When you go to low brightness levels,

00:33:32 ◼   ► you have pulse width modulation, which some people say

00:33:34 ◼   ► they can see and gives them headaches or just bothers them

00:33:37 ◼   ► in general.

00:33:38 ◼   ► And OLED also didn't have the ability

00:33:41 ◼   ► to do promotion until basically the end of last year,

00:33:45 ◼   ► not in the quantities of devices that Apple shipped.

00:33:47 ◼   ► Samsung managed to get them into a few devices,

00:33:49 ◼   ► like the Fold 2 and the Galaxy Note.

00:33:52 ◼   ► Those are very small scale devices compared

00:33:55 ◼   ► to iPhones and iPads.

00:33:57 ◼   ► So they need basically the--

00:34:00 ◼   ► what do they call it?

00:34:02 ◼   ► You need a special kind of LTPO technology,

00:34:05 ◼   ► the same the Apple Watch has, to be

00:34:07 ◼   ► able to do the variable refresh rate.

00:34:09 ◼   ► Because people will complain.

00:34:10 ◼   ► They'll say, oh, like $3 Android phones have 120 hertz refresh,

00:34:14 ◼   ► but not the iPhone.

00:34:16 ◼   ► And it's just that Apple doesn't do high refresh.

00:34:18 ◼   ► They do variable refresh rates all the way down to one

00:34:21 ◼   ► on the Apple Watch, 24 to 120 on the iPad.

00:34:26 ◼   ► So they would lose promotion if they'd done OLED earlier.

00:34:30 ◼   ► And also, OLED still had problems

00:34:33 ◼   ► with the consistency of brightness on larger panels.

00:34:37 ◼   ► Not like TV sets use totally different technologies

00:34:39 ◼   ► than the phones and the iPads do.

00:34:42 ◼   ► So Apple's been looking at micro LED, which

00:34:45 ◼   ► is also completely different.

00:34:46 ◼   ► That's like a more advanced version of OLED for the watch

00:34:49 ◼   ► and probably the phone one day.

00:34:50 ◼   ► But for everything that's LCD now, the Macs and the iPads,

00:34:54 ◼   ► it gives you almost OLED levels of deep shadows,

00:34:59 ◼   ► brightness, contrast ratio by using local dimming zones,

00:35:04 ◼   ► which is what they showed off with the Pro Display XDR.

00:35:07 ◼   ► So that basically you stop the leaking of the light

00:35:09 ◼   ► into the larger part of the panel.

00:35:11 ◼   ► So it gives you almost everything

00:35:12 ◼   ► without all of the drawbacks that OLED has.

00:35:15 ◼   ► And I wouldn't be surprised if they bifurcated it now

00:35:17 ◼   ► that you can get LTPO OLED and maybe some iPads have OLED

00:35:21 ◼   ► and some have mini LED.

00:35:23 ◼   ► But it feels like mini LED is a better tablet solution right

00:35:25 ◼   ► now.

00:35:26 ◼   ► So there's mini LED and micro LED.

00:35:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:35:30 ◼   ► Micro LED is self-illuminating like OLED is.

00:35:32 ◼   ► Oh my god, these names.

00:35:33 ◼   ► Mini LED is as a backlight.

00:35:35 ◼   ► Yeah, it's terrible.

00:35:36 ◼   ► But it's interesting how bifurcated this has all

00:35:41 ◼   ► become, right?

00:35:42 ◼   ► Where when the iPad first came out,

00:35:46 ◼   ► it just had the iPhone screen just bigger, right?

00:35:49 ◼   ► And it was like the same pixels per inch

00:35:51 ◼   ► and it was all similar technology

00:35:52 ◼   ► and similar refresh rates.

00:35:54 ◼   ► And now iPhones have OLED and OLED

00:35:58 ◼   ► has certain characteristics that make that better.

00:36:01 ◼   ► But iPads, which are using this older technology,

00:36:04 ◼   ► have had promotion displays with higher variable refresh

00:36:08 ◼   ► rates for years now.

00:36:09 ◼   ► iPhone has still never had that.

00:36:12 ◼   ► Was a much anticipated maybe for last year's iPhones 12.

00:36:18 ◼   ► I'll bet it's coming this year.

00:36:20 ◼   ► It felt like that was like one of the last tipping point.

00:36:23 ◼   ► Hmm, could we do it this year now?

00:36:25 ◼   ► And now it'll come this year and there'll

00:36:27 ◼   ► be variable refresh rates.

00:36:29 ◼   ► Well, Samsung put it into the Galaxy S21

00:36:31 ◼   ► and that's the big indicator because that's

00:36:33 ◼   ► their popular phone, which means that they can produce it

00:36:35 ◼   ► at capacity now.

00:36:36 ◼   ► What else are we thinking about for iPad Pro?

00:36:38 ◼   ► So the new displays and maybe--

00:36:40 ◼   ► do you think they would do this with the big 13-inch model,

00:36:43 ◼   ► get some more advanced display technology than the 11-inch?

00:36:48 ◼   ► I would hope they keep it the same because like you,

00:36:50 ◼   ► I'm a big proponent of just let me choose the size.

00:36:53 ◼   ► Everything else identical and just let me choose the size.

00:36:55 ◼   ► I don't want to think I'm getting a lower class

00:36:57 ◼   ► iPhone or iPad just because I'm getting a smaller one.

00:37:01 ◼   ► But I think it also probably has to do-- like they're looking--

00:37:03 ◼   ► I just imagine Tim Cook has basically pivot tables

00:37:06 ◼   ► in his head at this point.

00:37:07 ◼   ► And they figure out everything in terms of price point

00:37:09 ◼   ► and yield and what each component costs

00:37:12 ◼   ► and what they can charge for the product.

00:37:13 ◼   ► And then all those little number sheets in his head

00:37:17 ◼   ► lock into what they can do for any given generation.

00:37:19 ◼   ► Right.

00:37:20 ◼   ► You would think technically it would be harder

00:37:21 ◼   ► to do it in a bigger device.

00:37:23 ◼   ► But on the other hand, the bigger ones sell for more money.

00:37:25 ◼   ► And so therefore, maybe it's not really an engineering problem,

00:37:28 ◼   ► but just a component availability and profit margin

00:37:33 ◼   ► issue.

00:37:34 ◼   ► And it's also not intuitive sometimes.

00:37:37 ◼   ► Like a couple of years ago at CES,

00:37:38 ◼   ► they were showing off the early mini and micro LED TVs.

00:37:41 ◼   ► And they were enormous because the panel size, the pixels

00:37:44 ◼   ► in the panels were still enormous.

00:37:46 ◼   ► They hadn't been able to shrink them down yet.

00:37:48 ◼   ► So you have all sorts of factors that always

00:37:50 ◼   ► complicate these things.

00:37:52 ◼   ► All right.

00:37:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I'd say it's a maybe.

00:37:54 ◼   ► And it's one of those weird rumors

00:37:56 ◼   ► where usually there's a little smoke, there's fire.

00:37:59 ◼   ► It seems like the display stuff with Ming-Chi Kuo

00:38:06 ◼   ► is often one of the leakiest aspects of Apple's supply

00:38:10 ◼   ► chain.

00:38:12 ◼   ► I wouldn't bet against it.

00:38:13 ◼   ► I hope not.

00:38:14 ◼   ► But it also sounds like something

00:38:16 ◼   ► that Apple definitely could do.

00:38:17 ◼   ► It's say only in the 12.9 inch, we have something even better.

00:38:22 ◼   ► We've got this amazing display with these amazing

00:38:25 ◼   ► characteristics.

00:38:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:28 ◼   ► And sometimes it just matters how much they can produce.

00:38:30 ◼   ► Maybe they can produce enough for one of them

00:38:31 ◼   ► and not the other.

00:38:32 ◼   ► Or like you said, absorb the price in one of them

00:38:34 ◼   ► but not the other.

00:38:36 ◼   ► I've gotten a slew of emails and tweets from readers thinking

00:38:45 ◼   ► that Apple might use the M1 chip in the iPad Pro

00:38:50 ◼   ► and that it might also therefore dual boot into Mac OS

00:38:55 ◼   ► and that this would be the solution that the one device

00:38:59 ◼   ► meets all.

00:39:00 ◼   ► And to that, I say no way.

00:39:02 ◼   ► Like the M1, they couldn't--

00:39:05 ◼   ► I don't know what the A stands for in the A series chips.

00:39:09 ◼   ► Apple maybe?

00:39:10 ◼   ► Yeah, it was just Apple originally.

00:39:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:12 ◼   ► The M1, the M in M1 is for Mac.

00:39:15 ◼   ► And Macs are Macs and iPads are iPads.

00:39:17 ◼   ► I would expect based on benchmark scores

00:39:22 ◼   ► comparing the regular old A14 and the iPhone 12

00:39:25 ◼   ► to the M1 Macs that the A14X, which

00:39:31 ◼   ► is what I would anticipate the iPad Pro chip being named,

00:39:34 ◼   ► would perform very similarly, benchmark wise, to the M1s

00:39:39 ◼   ► because it would probably have the extra high performance

00:39:42 ◼   ► cores and probably maybe clocked higher.

00:39:46 ◼   ► But that doesn't make it--

00:39:47 ◼   ► that's not the difference between the M1 and the A14.

00:39:50 ◼   ► The M1 has a bunch of other stuff

00:39:51 ◼   ► on the system on a chip that are specific to the needs of a Mac

00:39:55 ◼   ► that wouldn't make sense for an iPad.

00:39:58 ◼   ► So it's not like the A14X is going to be slow.

00:40:00 ◼   ► I think it would be crazy fast just like the M1.

00:40:03 ◼   ► But the M1 is way more than that.

00:40:07 ◼   ► And the dual boot idea, for those of you hoping for it,

00:40:11 ◼   ► I really--

00:40:12 ◼   ► I just don't see it happening.

00:40:14 ◼   ► It just seems like anathema to Apple's mindset

00:40:18 ◼   ► of how these devices and the OS--

00:40:21 ◼   ► Very toaster frisbee.

00:40:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:23 ◼   ► Yeah, and there's just no separation conceptually from--

00:40:28 ◼   ► I know in theory you could do it.

00:40:30 ◼   ► But-- and I know that the developer kits for the Apple

00:40:37 ◼   ► Silicon Macs that the developers are just being politely

00:40:42 ◼   ► told to hand back now were performance-wise very

00:40:46 ◼   ► similar to iPad Pros.

00:40:48 ◼   ► But there's a reason why they didn't let you run Mac OS

00:40:51 ◼   ► on an iPad Pro to develop your Mac apps, which is what--

00:40:55 ◼   ► also a year ago what a lot of people were thinking,

00:40:58 ◼   ► that there won't be developer kits.

00:41:00 ◼   ► They'll just have a way to dual boot your iPad Pro into Mac OS,

00:41:04 ◼   ► and that's how you'll develop.

00:41:05 ◼   ► No, they're not going to have Mac OS running on a touchscreen

00:41:09 ◼   ► when Mac OS doesn't support touchscreens,

00:41:11 ◼   ► even though you could.

00:41:12 ◼   ► And then, well, you could just use the Magic Keyboard,

00:41:15 ◼   ► and then you have a trackpad.

00:41:16 ◼   ► But it's like, that just isn't how Apple thinks about things.

00:41:20 ◼   ► Yeah, and I think there's one circumstance where

00:41:23 ◼   ► I can see them--

00:41:24 ◼   ► so again, just for all intents and purposes, the A14X

00:41:27 ◼   ► would be identical, just in terms of it

00:41:30 ◼   ► would have the same Ice Storm and Fire Storm efficiency

00:41:33 ◼   ► and performance cores.

00:41:35 ◼   ► And I'm going to just register a protest here

00:41:36 ◼   ► that the graphics and the neural engine cores

00:41:39 ◼   ► don't get fancy code names, because Shaderstorm

00:41:44 ◼   ► and Brainstorm seem like logical code names for those chips.

00:41:48 ◼   ► So I can just treat all your cores equally.

00:41:50 ◼   ► But they would be the same, like literally the same chip.

00:41:53 ◼   ► They might have frequency differences

00:41:54 ◼   ► in the thermal envelopes of the boxes they're put in.

00:41:57 ◼   ► But it's the same cores.

00:42:00 ◼   ► Apple right now has an A12 in the iPhone

00:42:02 ◼   ► and an A12 in the iPad Air.

00:42:04 ◼   ► It's the exact same silicon.

00:42:05 ◼   ► The iPhone will hit the image signal processor more,

00:42:07 ◼   ► because people take and process photos more on their iPhones.

00:42:11 ◼   ► And maybe the GPU gets hit harder in the iPad Air,

00:42:13 ◼   ► because people are using higher level apps,

00:42:16 ◼   ► like Procreate, things that hit the GPU harder.

00:42:18 ◼   ► But it's just efficient for them.

00:42:20 ◼   ► That's their whole scalable architecture thing.

00:42:22 ◼   ► It's why they don't become a silicon merchant for Apple

00:42:26 ◼   ► being their, you know, a bunch of different products

00:42:28 ◼   ► inside Apple is that everything from the watch to the Mac

00:42:33 ◼   ► has the same sort of core architecture.

00:42:35 ◼   ► So if it's cheaper for them to have M series,

00:42:39 ◼   ► and to just, because the names of it,

00:42:41 ◼   ► like the chips are the same,

00:42:42 ◼   ► if it's cheaper to have an M processor in an iPad,

00:42:45 ◼   ► they call it A14X,

00:42:47 ◼   ► turn off one of the Thunderbolt controllers,

00:42:49 ◼   ► turn off the virtualization and the emulation circuits,

00:42:53 ◼   ► maybe just it's economics that changes that.

00:42:57 ◼   ► Otherwise, if it's cheaper to make a whole separate line

00:42:59 ◼   ► of chips that don't include that to begin with,

00:43:01 ◼   ► that's what they'll do,

00:43:02 ◼   ► but there's no functional difference there.

00:43:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's what I anticipate.

00:43:08 ◼   ► Anything else?

00:43:10 ◼   ► I guess maybe it'll get a camera upgrade

00:43:13 ◼   ► compared to the existing iPad Pros,

00:43:15 ◼   ► because that's what happens.

00:43:17 ◼   ► Otherwise, though, you know.

00:43:20 ◼   ► - I'd love to see Thunderbolt, though.

00:43:21 ◼   ► I mean, now that they have Thunderbolt on the M1

00:43:23 ◼   ► and they could conceivably put on board

00:43:25 ◼   ► a Thunderbolt controller,

00:43:26 ◼   ► just because I have so many really fast storage drives now

00:43:29 ◼   ► that don't work on the iPad Pro,

00:43:31 ◼   ► and I'd love to be able to pull video and stuff onto there.

00:43:35 ◼   ► - Well, and I think if they go USB4,

00:43:38 ◼   ► that includes Thunderbolt.

00:43:40 ◼   ► And I know that, oh my God,

00:43:42 ◼   ► the entire saga of USB-ish standards

00:43:47 ◼   ► that use the plug that looks like,

00:43:51 ◼   ► we all just see that plug and we think that's USB-C.

00:43:55 ◼   ► And it's also Thunderbolt,

00:43:57 ◼   ► but a Thunderbolt cable costs $200,

00:43:59 ◼   ► and is thick and heavy and ray-shielded.

00:44:05 ◼   ► USB4, supposedly, is the USB with that plug

00:44:13 ◼   ► that works the way, it obviously all should have worked

00:44:18 ◼   ► all along, where everything is everything.

00:44:21 ◼   ► And so if you plug anything in that has that plug,

00:44:25 ◼   ► it'll go at the fullest speed that it supports,

00:44:29 ◼   ► including Thunderbolt. - Yeah, it's the dream, right?

00:44:31 ◼   ► Finally.

00:44:32 ◼   ► 'Cause right now, like you said, the USB-C,

00:44:34 ◼   ► some of them have power, some don't, some support displays,

00:44:36 ◼   ► some don't, some do, it's just a mess,

00:44:39 ◼   ► and this hopefully will fix it.

00:44:40 ◼   ► - Right, especially if it's USB4.

00:44:42 ◼   ► And that should be the most future-proof as well,

00:44:46 ◼   ► and would be a very nice story.

00:44:48 ◼   ► And it would be a nice little feather

00:44:51 ◼   ► in the iPad Pro's cap that it has USB4 before the Mac even.

00:44:56 ◼   ► Let me think, yeah, that's a good one, and it seems likely.

00:44:59 ◼   ► And at the very least, Thunderbolt seems likely.

00:45:02 ◼   ► I mean, and for some reason,

00:45:03 ◼   ► the whole driving big Thunderbolt displays

00:45:07 ◼   ► from an iPad Pro is a thing,

00:45:09 ◼   ► and apparently people are using it.

00:45:10 ◼   ► I don't know, I've never plugged anything like that in.

00:45:13 ◼   ► - Well, just like I have these Samsung drives

00:45:15 ◼   ► that are almost like the MVNE drives,

00:45:17 ◼   ► and they just don't work on the iPad Pro,

00:45:19 ◼   ► and that's annoying. - Just don't work at all.

00:45:22 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Right.

00:45:23 ◼   ► Right, and it definitely works against the,

00:45:26 ◼   ► you know, and that's, not to get into the whole,

00:45:30 ◼   ► is the iPhone ever gonna support a USB-C plug,

00:45:33 ◼   ► to which I say, no, I really don't think so.

00:45:35 ◼   ► I think it's lightning all the way

00:45:37 ◼   ► until they go no plug at all.

00:45:38 ◼   ► But their explanation, and the people who,

00:45:42 ◼   ► for whatever reason, want the iPhone to go USB-C,

00:45:46 ◼   ► and I totally get the, I'm not dismissing you,

00:45:49 ◼   ► but I totally get the idea that then you only have

00:45:51 ◼   ► one type of plug type laying around your house

00:45:53 ◼   ► to charge everything, you know,

00:45:55 ◼   ► but then the Apple Watch chargers

00:45:56 ◼   ► would all have to go USB-C too,

00:45:58 ◼   ► and you know, it's not that easy.

00:46:00 ◼   ► - No.

00:46:01 ◼   ► - But Apple's original explanation

00:46:03 ◼   ► for when the iPad Pro first switched

00:46:05 ◼   ► from lightning to USB-C was we want to enable

00:46:09 ◼   ► pro workflows that would otherwise require a Mac,

00:46:13 ◼   ► I forget how they phrased it exactly,

00:46:16 ◼   ► but more or less, things you used to have to use

00:46:18 ◼   ► a Mac or PC for, they wanted the iPad Pro to do,

00:46:21 ◼   ► and that meant USB-C, and the best USB-C was USB-C,

00:46:25 ◼   ► so they have USB-C, so that you can plug USB peripherals

00:46:29 ◼   ► into your iPad Pro for professional workflows.

00:46:32 ◼   ► And that's not really a thing for phones.

00:46:35 ◼   ► People aren't, you know, Apple doesn't sell the iPhone

00:46:37 ◼   ► as a thing that you can plug PC peripherals

00:46:39 ◼   ► like Samsung Thunderbolt drives into your iPhone.

00:46:44 ◼   ► In theory, it could, but again, in theory,

00:46:46 ◼   ► they could make the iPhone dual-boot Mac OS, you know?

00:46:50 ◼   ► They're not gonna do it.

00:46:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think the thing for me is that,

00:46:53 ◼   ► like Apple built all these things,

00:46:55 ◼   ► like they contributed hugely towards USB-C,

00:46:57 ◼   ► and they knew the timelines,

00:46:58 ◼   ► and they wanted to make the iPhone 5,

00:47:00 ◼   ► and USB-C just wasn't gonna be ready for years,

00:47:02 ◼   ► and so they made lightning because they don't have

00:47:04 ◼   ► to worry about the USB consortium for that.

00:47:08 ◼   ► And then you just can't ask people

00:47:09 ◼   ► to change connectors that often.

00:47:10 ◼   ► When they changed from the dock to lightning,

00:47:13 ◼   ► people were super angry.

00:47:14 ◼   ► They have to get new cables and everything for it.

00:47:16 ◼   ► So you can maybe get away with that on a product,

00:47:19 ◼   ► like with Apple products, once a decade.

00:47:21 ◼   ► And so there was no point in going to USB-C,

00:47:23 ◼   ► and now I feel like lightning is a bottleneck.

00:47:26 ◼   ► Like it's still at, mostly it's still at USB 2.1 speeds.

00:47:29 ◼   ► It's not really great for anything.

00:47:31 ◼   ► It's more waterproof than USB-C.

00:47:32 ◼   ► It's slightly smaller than USB-C,

00:47:34 ◼   ► but all of that things,

00:47:35 ◼   ► it just feels like it's approaching end of life.

00:47:38 ◼   ► And is there USB-C in the future?

00:47:40 ◼   ► Will they make a new mini USB-C?

00:47:42 ◼   ► Like what's the point when they could just use MagSafe

00:47:45 ◼   ► and the U1 chip to do wireless charging and data?

00:47:48 ◼   ► - You know, the big problem

00:47:52 ◼   ► with only going wireless for charging

00:47:54 ◼   ► is that the highest speed isn't anywhere near as fast

00:47:57 ◼   ► as the highest speed you can get through a plug.

00:47:59 ◼   ► - It's fast now though.

00:48:00 ◼   ► Like if you look at,

00:48:01 ◼   ► some of the Android vendors are not only using

00:48:03 ◼   ► faster charges, but they're segmenting the battery

00:48:06 ◼   ► so you can charge them in parallel.

00:48:08 ◼   ► - Right, so I wouldn't be surprised

00:48:10 ◼   ► if that's Apple's long-term plan,

00:48:11 ◼   ► that they've got stuff on the whiteboard down the hall,

00:48:15 ◼   ► you know, like at the end of the hallway

00:48:16 ◼   ► where people are working on things two to three years out,

00:48:19 ◼   ► as opposed to things shipping this year,

00:48:21 ◼   ► they've got plans for getting wireless,

00:48:25 ◼   ► I can't believe I just said wireless,

00:48:26 ◼   ► but magnetic inductive charging,

00:48:30 ◼   ► working at higher speeds,

00:48:31 ◼   ► and then someone else down the hall

00:48:33 ◼   ► is working on actual wireless charging,

00:48:35 ◼   ► where you can charge at a distance

00:48:37 ◼   ► from a device truly over the air.

00:48:40 ◼   ► - Like that refrigerator that they were showing off in China

00:48:42 ◼   ► where you just walk around your living room

00:48:43 ◼   ► and it trickle charges you.

00:48:45 ◼   ► - Anything else for iPad?

00:48:48 ◼   ► - I would take USB-C and an iPhone Pro though.

00:48:50 ◼   ► I mean, I would take it anyway,

00:48:51 ◼   ► just because like, if you're giving me a Pro device,

00:48:54 ◼   ► like let consumers have all the inductive stuff,

00:48:56 ◼   ► but if you're giving me a Pro device

00:48:57 ◼   ► and you're gonna go to 8K for video

00:48:59 ◼   ► and all these things eventually, I just want that speed.

00:49:01 ◼   ► I want the speed to be able to take stuff

00:49:03 ◼   ► on and off that thing.

00:49:04 ◼   ► - It's possible, you know,

00:49:05 ◼   ► and maybe Pro would be the way they do it.

00:49:07 ◼   ► I just think that it's one of those things

00:49:09 ◼   ► where the nerd part of the population

00:49:11 ◼   ► cannot believe how the vast majority of non-nerds

00:49:16 ◼   ► think about things.

00:49:17 ◼   ► And one of my favorite examples is the old five watt charger

00:49:22 ◼   ► and how many people preferred that charger

00:49:25 ◼   ► because it was small

00:49:27 ◼   ► and you could keep it in your purse and it's lightweight

00:49:29 ◼   ► or you could plug it in to plugs

00:49:33 ◼   ► that were full of other plugs.

00:49:35 ◼   ► And if there was an open socket,

00:49:37 ◼   ► there was room for that plug

00:49:38 ◼   ► and that they don't really care

00:49:40 ◼   ► that it's not the highest speed.

00:49:41 ◼   ► They just, they really appreciate the size.

00:49:44 ◼   ► And it really wasn't until Apple could,

00:49:47 ◼   ► and again, could in theory,

00:49:50 ◼   ► make a higher capacity charger at a smaller size.

00:49:53 ◼   ► Sure, but do it at their scale

00:49:56 ◼   ► and at the cost they wanted to hit for the price

00:49:59 ◼   ► at a smaller size.

00:50:00 ◼   ► They really kind of needed to wait for that.

00:50:01 ◼   ► And the size issue never came up.

00:50:04 ◼   ► All the, in the nerd press,

00:50:05 ◼   ► all they wanted to talk about was five watt is slow

00:50:09 ◼   ► and iPhones are expensive.

00:50:11 ◼   ► It's a rip off that it doesn't come

00:50:12 ◼   ► with a high speed charger,

00:50:13 ◼   ► but it's like, people don't want that, you know.

00:50:16 ◼   ► - A lot of that was nonsense too.

00:50:17 ◼   ► Like when you, like there's levels of nerds

00:50:19 ◼   ► and there's like, there's nothing more dangerous

00:50:21 ◼   ► than like a half informed nerd.

00:50:22 ◼   ► And I mean that lovingly

00:50:23 ◼   ► because when you actually look at it,

00:50:24 ◼   ► it's the same thing as 5G

00:50:25 ◼   ► and all of these technologies.

00:50:27 ◼   ► When you looked at them,

00:50:28 ◼   ► they would peak charge at those wattage,

00:50:31 ◼   ► but they wouldn't sustain charge at that.

00:50:33 ◼   ► They would like give you a few seconds,

00:50:34 ◼   ► but if you actually started measuring the current,

00:50:36 ◼   ► it was nowhere near there.

00:50:37 ◼   ► And they were proprietary.

00:50:38 ◼   ► So if you lost whatever dongle,

00:50:40 ◼   ► you couldn't just plug it into anything else.

00:50:42 ◼   ► You wouldn't get anywhere near those.

00:50:44 ◼   ► The whole thing was really cockamamie.

00:50:45 ◼   ► And yet it was such good marketing

00:50:47 ◼   ► and such spec bait for a whole segment of the community.

00:50:51 ◼   ► - So I think the same thing is true of connectors.

00:50:54 ◼   ► I can't believe that the nerds don't remember

00:50:58 ◼   ► all the non-nerds in their life complaining so vociferously

00:51:02 ◼   ► when Apple switched to Lightning

00:51:04 ◼   ► from the old 30-pin connectors.

00:51:05 ◼   ► Even though when you now look back

00:51:07 ◼   ► at the 30-pin connectors, they look ridiculous.

00:51:10 ◼   ► - Every alarm clock in every hotel room

00:51:12 ◼   ► for like what, eight years?

00:51:13 ◼   ► - They're so, so big and so weird looking, right?

00:51:18 ◼   ► Because they exposed so much of the metal.

00:51:22 ◼   ► It was such a weird looking plug.

00:51:24 ◼   ► It's kind of hard to believe it was Apple's plug.

00:51:27 ◼   ► And you really have to go back 20 years ago

00:51:30 ◼   ► to the early iPod era when they first switched away

00:51:33 ◼   ► from FireWire to really appreciate how novel

00:51:38 ◼   ► that adapter was.

00:51:40 ◼   ► But it's not Apple's finest adapter design work.

00:51:43 ◼   ► It just exposed bits.

00:51:44 ◼   ► - And they had to keep re-switching the pins, remember?

00:51:45 ◼   ► 'Cause they would switch something to HDMI

00:51:48 ◼   ► and then you had to cross again.

00:51:50 ◼   ► It was just a mess.

00:51:51 ◼   ► - But when they switched to Lightning,

00:51:53 ◼   ► which in hindsight seems, well, of course, obvious.

00:51:55 ◼   ► Look how small and elegant it is.

00:51:57 ◼   ► People went bananas on the theory

00:52:00 ◼   ► that this was just a money grab

00:52:02 ◼   ► and that they switched the plug just to get everybody

00:52:04 ◼   ► to spend 20 more bucks to replace all the cables

00:52:07 ◼   ► around their house.

00:52:09 ◼   ► And if they switched to USB-C, and again,

00:52:11 ◼   ► you could say, well, that's the open standard.

00:52:13 ◼   ► It's like people would still say it was a money grab

00:52:15 ◼   ► and they're mad because there are husbands and wives

00:52:20 ◼   ► where one gets a new phone on the even years,

00:52:24 ◼   ► the other gets the phone on the odd years.

00:52:26 ◼   ► And what do you do for the year where they don't have

00:52:28 ◼   ► the same plug on their phone and they wanna have one plug

00:52:30 ◼   ► in the kitchen?

00:52:31 ◼   ► That's a common scenario.

00:52:34 ◼   ► - Just look at last year when Apple switched

00:52:35 ◼   ► to a USB-C cable.

00:52:37 ◼   ► People got super angry saying,

00:52:39 ◼   ► we all have these USB-A connectors.

00:52:42 ◼   ► Most people with an iPhone have a PC, not a Mac,

00:52:44 ◼   ► and they have USB-A ports on them.

00:52:46 ◼   ► And Apple's clear message was, we know,

00:52:49 ◼   ► but we figure if you have the old connector,

00:52:51 ◼   ► you have the old cable.

00:52:52 ◼   ► What we're worried about is you not having a USB-C cable

00:52:54 ◼   ► if you have that connector.

00:52:56 ◼   ► So we're giving you one with it.

00:52:57 ◼   ► And they were like, no, this is outrageous.

00:53:00 ◼   ► - I'm not saying they won't do it.

00:53:01 ◼   ► And there are good reasons for it.

00:53:03 ◼   ► And I know some people would celebrate a change.

00:53:05 ◼   ► And the idea that maybe they would do it for the pros

00:53:08 ◼   ► and not the regular iPhone 13s, I could see it.

00:53:12 ◼   ► 'Cause then they could pitch it as this is

00:53:15 ◼   ► for our pro customers who are connecting

00:53:17 ◼   ► these pro utilities.

00:53:18 ◼   ► - They're using DOLBY Vision.

00:53:21 ◼   ► They're doing AK, whatever video.

00:53:24 ◼   ► We're giving you a connector for all that.

00:53:26 ◼   ► - But on the other hand,

00:53:27 ◼   ► I think there's a huge security aspect

00:53:31 ◼   ► to their desire to go portless.

00:53:33 ◼   ► Because there still are, you still see some reports

00:53:36 ◼   ► that like those, what are those gray whatever boxes?

00:53:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, and also the Juice Jack attacks

00:53:41 ◼   ► where they just put it over the firmware in a USB-C cable.

00:53:44 ◼   ► - Right, that a bunch of the ways that iPhones get hacked

00:53:48 ◼   ► by the companies that sell these boxes to law enforcement,

00:53:52 ◼   ► supposedly only to law enforcement,

00:53:55 ◼   ► that these things go over-- - Celebrate.

00:53:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, celebrate.

00:53:58 ◼   ► And they go over USB.

00:53:59 ◼   ► And it's like, however, you can say,

00:54:02 ◼   ► well, fix all your USB bugs.

00:54:04 ◼   ► Well, one way to fix all your USB and Lightning bugs

00:54:07 ◼   ► is to just get rid of USB and Lightning.

00:54:09 ◼   ► Just take it out of the OS even, right?

00:54:12 ◼   ► You don't even need it if you don't have the port.

00:54:15 ◼   ► That's one way to nip all those bugs in the bud.

00:54:20 ◼   ► - And then if you have CarPlay,

00:54:22 ◼   ► they'll just make a dongle for you.

00:54:23 ◼   ► It'll be USB to wireless

00:54:26 ◼   ► or whatever Apple standard uses for wireless will be fine.

00:54:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, don't underestimate their ability

00:54:32 ◼   ► to make a dongle for you.

00:54:33 ◼   ► - Yes, dongle.

00:54:36 ◼   ► Again, I keep ranting about stuff,

00:54:37 ◼   ► but if you're pros, you're just so used to that

00:54:39 ◼   ► because you had FireWire 400 dongles, FireWire 800.

00:54:42 ◼   ► You have mini DVI, regular DVI DisplayPort.

00:54:45 ◼   ► We've had all the dongles.

00:54:46 ◼   ► We've never lived the dongle free life.

00:54:48 ◼   ► - No, just scuzzy things that used to screw in the back.

00:54:52 ◼   ► All right, what's next?

00:54:53 ◼   ► Let's do one more and then we'll take a break.

00:54:55 ◼   ► - Do you wanna do Apple TV next?

00:54:56 ◼   ► 'Cause I'm waiting on that.

00:54:57 ◼   ► - All right, let's do Apple TV.

00:54:59 ◼   ► This is one, I don't, what do you think?

00:55:02 ◼   ► You think that there's new Apple TV hardware?

00:55:05 ◼   ► - I think so, 'cause there's rumors of a new,

00:55:07 ◼   ► I don't wanna call it a Siri remote anymore.

00:55:08 ◼   ► I don't know if it's gonna be Siri optimized,

00:55:10 ◼   ► but there's just, there's two sets of rumors.

00:55:13 ◼   ► One that it gets an A12X or an A12Z

00:55:16 ◼   ► and it just does HDR compositing better

00:55:18 ◼   ► and plays Apple Arcade games better

00:55:20 ◼   ► and it's just a spec bump.

00:55:22 ◼   ► And there's this other set of rumors

00:55:23 ◼   ► that it's gonna get an A14X,

00:55:26 ◼   ► which is odd to me because that's more expensive.

00:55:29 ◼   ► It's still not as good in terms of GPU

00:55:31 ◼   ► as an Xbox Series X or a PlayStation 5,

00:55:34 ◼   ► but it would let Apple do a higher level of games,

00:55:36 ◼   ► which, you know, despite Apple showing very little interest

00:55:40 ◼   ► in high order gaming,

00:55:42 ◼   ► making all the money on casual gaming,

00:55:44 ◼   ► people still have this fantasy of an Apple, you know,

00:55:47 ◼   ► like a more premium Apple gaming experience device.

00:55:51 ◼   ► And so that's the other way that they could go.

00:55:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I know that there've been,

00:55:57 ◼   ► somebody's splunking around,

00:55:59 ◼   ► I don't know if it was Guillermo Rambo or who,

00:56:02 ◼   ► but somebody was splunking around the latest iOS 14.5 beta

00:56:06 ◼   ► and found the strings that you're referencing,

00:56:09 ◼   ► you know, that there's strings in the source code

00:56:12 ◼   ► that reference a new remote

00:56:13 ◼   ► and maybe have a hint of something.

00:56:15 ◼   ► So I'm just so, I so want them to make,

00:56:20 ◼   ► to release a new Apple TV box,

00:56:23 ◼   ► just as a clear sign that they're still committed

00:56:26 ◼   ► to having an Apple TV box,

00:56:29 ◼   ► that I don't even care what the details are so much.

00:56:32 ◼   ► Like my number one thought is,

00:56:34 ◼   ► well, at least they're not getting away from it.

00:56:36 ◼   ► 'Cause I do, I know I've talked about it

00:56:38 ◼   ► in the last few episodes.

00:56:38 ◼   ► I don't have to rehash it all here.

00:56:40 ◼   ► But the fact that they're so all in

00:56:43 ◼   ► on getting the Apple TV app for TV+ content

00:56:46 ◼   ► built into TVs and other companies' boxes and dongles,

00:56:51 ◼   ► is, you know, you could just say,

00:56:53 ◼   ► well, it's a dual strategy.

00:56:55 ◼   ► They have their own box

00:56:57 ◼   ► and they also want Apple TV+ everywhere.

00:57:00 ◼   ► But like if the, you know,

00:57:03 ◼   ► if the Apple TV box just fades away

00:57:06 ◼   ► and doesn't get updated

00:57:07 ◼   ► and eventually gets one of those sad Friday night

00:57:10 ◼   ► Matthew Panzorino stories at TechCrunch that,

00:57:13 ◼   ► you know, it's while supplies last, right?

00:57:17 ◼   ► Everybody, everybody-- - Poor Matthew.

00:57:20 ◼   ► He's therapy.

00:57:20 ◼   ► - Well, he's so, he's great at it though.

00:57:23 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:57:24 ◼   ► But he's like the last rights for every Apple product.

00:57:27 ◼   ► - Right, but it's like, you know,

00:57:28 ◼   ► like when they discontinued HomePod,

00:57:30 ◼   ► it's exactly like this.

00:57:33 ◼   ► I was disappointed, 'cause I like HomePods better

00:57:36 ◼   ► than most people do.

00:57:38 ◼   ► - Me too. - But that's because

00:57:40 ◼   ► I believe that the true HomePod experience

00:57:42 ◼   ► is two of them as a $700 product

00:57:45 ◼   ► and that, you know, that's more money

00:57:47 ◼   ► than people wanted to spend.

00:57:48 ◼   ► They didn't make the pitch.

00:57:49 ◼   ► But when they discontinued it, nobody was like shocked.

00:57:52 ◼   ► It wasn't like, oh my God, I can't believe it.

00:57:54 ◼   ► It was sort of like, well, yeah,

00:57:56 ◼   ► it didn't seem to be selling very well.

00:57:58 ◼   ► And if they did that with Apple TV,

00:58:01 ◼   ► everybody would be like, yeah, well,

00:58:04 ◼   ► it didn't seem like it was selling that well.

00:58:05 ◼   ► And they just spent the last 18 months

00:58:08 ◼   ► in this major push with rival companies

00:58:12 ◼   ► like Samsung and Google to get Apple TV

00:58:16 ◼   ► onto all those boxes.

00:58:17 ◼   ► What did you think that meant?

00:58:19 ◼   ► - There's a poor SOB somewhere in Cupertino

00:58:21 ◼   ► whose only job it is is to make a Tizen port

00:58:23 ◼   ► of the TV app, and I feel so bad for them.

00:58:26 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:58:28 ◼   ► - So I would be happy just,

00:58:32 ◼   ► you have me at new Apple TV, right?

00:58:35 ◼   ► - Yes. - You've got me.

00:58:37 ◼   ► - With a U1 chip and the controller

00:58:38 ◼   ► so you can find it when it's in the sofa cushions.

00:58:41 ◼   ► - Right, oh, that would be great.

00:58:43 ◼   ► Maybe something spatially oriented

00:58:47 ◼   ► so that they can do the spatial audio.

00:58:51 ◼   ► I would hope that that's part of it, right?

00:58:53 ◼   ► Because the problem, I've written about this,

00:58:56 ◼   ► I think most extensively when I was writing

00:58:58 ◼   ► about the AirPods Max with this cool spatial audio feature

00:59:02 ◼   ► where you can watch Dolby Surround movies

00:59:05 ◼   ► and get extraordinarily uncanny spatial audio.

00:59:10 ◼   ► It's not just left, right.

00:59:15 ◼   ► It really is truly directional.

00:59:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, if people aren't familiar with that,

00:59:19 ◼   ► like if you're in a room with speakers

00:59:21 ◼   ► and you walk around, the speakers don't move with you.

00:59:23 ◼   ► They stay in the same place,

00:59:24 ◼   ► but if you're wearing headphones,

00:59:26 ◼   ► the headphones move around with you

00:59:27 ◼   ► and spatial audio basically treats headphones like speakers.

00:59:30 ◼   ► So it doesn't matter where you're walking.

00:59:32 ◼   ► The audio stays in place

00:59:33 ◼   ► as if you were listening to speakers.

00:59:35 ◼   ► - Or when you turn your head, right?

00:59:36 ◼   ► You turn your head a little bit and you get this.

00:59:39 ◼   ► It is both uncanny and to me very pleasant.

00:59:44 ◼   ► I enjoy it very much.

00:59:47 ◼   ► It's a little crazy though that it only works

00:59:50 ◼   ► when you're watching a movie on an iPad or an iPhone.

00:59:54 ◼   ► I mean, if you're on an airplane, that's great

00:59:56 ◼   ► because that's where I would be watching the movie,

00:59:59 ◼   ► but I tend to watch movies on TV.

01:00:01 ◼   ► Now I don't have a baby in the house or anything like that

01:00:04 ◼   ► where I need to listen to headphones while I watch movies,

01:00:08 ◼   ► but I have a while ago and I remember,

01:00:10 ◼   ► and there's all sorts of other domestic situations

01:00:15 ◼   ► where you might wanna watch on a big screen

01:00:18 ◼   ► but use headphones to avoid disturbing somebody else.

01:00:22 ◼   ► And if that's the case, man,

01:00:23 ◼   ► the best thing would be AirPods Max with spatial audio,

01:00:29 ◼   ► but doesn't work even though Apple TV is like a $200 product

01:00:34 ◼   ► because Apple TV doesn't have any kind of spatial chip

01:00:37 ◼   ► that would let you orient it.

01:00:39 ◼   ► And you can't just assume that the Apple TV

01:00:42 ◼   ► is centered under the television

01:00:43 ◼   ► 'cause how do the headphones even know

01:00:46 ◼   ► where the center of the television is?

01:00:48 ◼   ► That would be cool.

01:00:50 ◼   ► I would hope so.

01:00:51 ◼   ► I would hope that would be part of it

01:00:52 ◼   ► because I think the spatial audio is a thing

01:00:54 ◼   ► that they should put into everything they can.

01:00:57 ◼   ► Some kind of beeper U1 thing in the remote

01:01:00 ◼   ► would be fantastic.

01:01:02 ◼   ► - Also, once you get the spatial audio,

01:01:04 ◼   ► there's a HomePod mini,

01:01:05 ◼   ► but let's assume there's gonna be a next generation HomePod

01:01:08 ◼   ► with a U1.

01:01:09 ◼   ► You could theoretically just throw speakers

01:01:10 ◼   ► in a room anywhere and they would all know where they are

01:01:12 ◼   ► and where the TV is and just give you instant

01:01:15 ◼   ► at most everywhere, which I would love.

01:01:17 ◼   ► - Right, right, and just give you

01:01:19 ◼   ► this rich spatial experience just from the HomePods.

01:01:24 ◼   ► Don't even tease me.

01:01:25 ◼   ► Don't tease me with a new design for the remote.

01:01:29 ◼   ► I don't even wanna go there.

01:01:31 ◼   ► Boy, that would be a pleasant surprise.

01:01:33 ◼   ► If the only feature on the remote were a U1 chip

01:01:37 ◼   ► for making it beep when it's in the couch,

01:01:40 ◼   ► that would be pretty good.

01:01:41 ◼   ► - You hold up your new iPad and it shows you

01:01:43 ◼   ► where it is under the pillow.

01:01:45 ◼   ► I'm there.

01:01:46 ◼   ► - I mean, putting aside the idea of making it

01:01:51 ◼   ► an actual good game controller,

01:01:53 ◼   ► which again, I think would be ideal.

01:01:56 ◼   ► - That's the rumors, like an Apple game controller as well,

01:01:59 ◼   ► an additional, and I'd love to see Apple design

01:02:01 ◼   ► a game controller and I'd love to see John Siracusa

01:02:03 ◼   ► review the Apple game controller.

01:02:05 ◼   ► - That would be good.

01:02:06 ◼   ► I think that the Nintendo Switch shows

01:02:09 ◼   ► that you can make a credible game controller

01:02:11 ◼   ► in a very tidy, tight size,

01:02:13 ◼   ► 'cause you can take the sides off a Switch

01:02:15 ◼   ► and play with just one of them

01:02:17 ◼   ► as an individual game controller, and it's not great.

01:02:20 ◼   ► It's not the greatest thing, but it's good enough.

01:02:22 ◼   ► I've enjoyed it, especially playing in it

01:02:26 ◼   ► with three or four people playing Mario Kart

01:02:28 ◼   ► and you don't have enough pro controllers to go around.

01:02:31 ◼   ► Just give one of these to everybody and it's good enough.

01:02:34 ◼   ► - And Super Smash Brothers is so confusing,

01:02:36 ◼   ► it doesn't matter what controller you give me.

01:02:37 ◼   ► I can't keep up and I'm falling off the stage

01:02:39 ◼   ► all the time anyway.

01:02:41 ◼   ► - So anyway, that would be great if it came.

01:02:43 ◼   ► Are we getting ahead of ourselves though?

01:02:45 ◼   ► Is this too many products for one April event?

01:02:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is fanfic at this point,

01:02:49 ◼   ► but I'm in for it, I'm down for it.

01:02:52 ◼   ► - Well, I don't know, it would be great.

01:02:54 ◼   ► It would be a weight off my shoulders

01:02:56 ◼   ► if they had Apple TV next week.

01:02:59 ◼   ► There certainly is the potential, right?

01:03:00 ◼   ► In terms of all of these products,

01:03:02 ◼   ► which one needs an update?

01:03:04 ◼   ► That would be one.

01:03:05 ◼   ► I feel like this A12 something

01:03:08 ◼   ► versus A14 something discussion,

01:03:11 ◼   ► if it's the A12 something, boy, it would be nice

01:03:15 ◼   ► if they reduced the price of Apple TV.

01:03:17 ◼   ► And I know it's like my favorite segment of the talk show

01:03:21 ◼   ► is spend Tim Cook's money and tell Tim Cook

01:03:25 ◼   ► how to make things lower priced

01:03:26 ◼   ► and make less money on a product.

01:03:28 ◼   ► - More for less, yep.

01:03:29 ◼   ► - But the price tag of Apple TV is, to me,

01:03:33 ◼   ► very similar to the full-size HomePods.

01:03:35 ◼   ► The price tag alone is clearly keeping

01:03:39 ◼   ► many, many people from even considering it.

01:03:42 ◼   ► They go in and they look and if they're in the market

01:03:45 ◼   ► for a box to hook up to their HDMI port on their TV

01:03:50 ◼   ► and the Roku's are 50 bucks and the Apple TV's are 170 bucks,

01:03:55 ◼   ► they just go back to looking at the Roku's

01:03:58 ◼   ► and the Amazon's and the other ones

01:04:00 ◼   ► and they just don't really consider it.

01:04:02 ◼   ► And whether they should or not,

01:04:04 ◼   ► I think there's an argument that they should.

01:04:06 ◼   ► I love my Apple TV, but Apple has had years now

01:04:09 ◼   ► and has not made the compelling case

01:04:13 ◼   ► for why it's worth it to spend that much money on it.

01:04:17 ◼   ► And given how many years old Apple TV 4K is

01:04:20 ◼   ► and hasn't been reduced in price,

01:04:24 ◼   ► it just isn't that compelling technically anymore.

01:04:27 ◼   ► I mean, it's really--

01:04:27 ◼   ► - It's the same year as the iPhone X, right?

01:04:29 ◼   ► The same event as the iPhone X.

01:04:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it just is, I know from talking to some friends

01:04:35 ◼   ► who are game developers, it's a challenge to get

01:04:39 ◼   ► and maintain 30 frames per second

01:04:41 ◼   ► on the current Apple TV 4K at 4K, right?

01:04:45 ◼   ► And that's one of the things like for Apple Arcade,

01:04:48 ◼   ► if you're playing, if you're a game

01:04:50 ◼   ► and you're running on Apple TV 4K,

01:04:51 ◼   ► you need to be able to play at 4K.

01:04:53 ◼   ► You can't just switch to 1080,

01:04:56 ◼   ► which for games is actually reasonable,

01:04:58 ◼   ► that even if you're hooked up to a 4K TV,

01:05:00 ◼   ► it'd be better to be running at 1080

01:05:02 ◼   ► at 30 plus frames per second

01:05:05 ◼   ► than running at 4K under 30 frames per second.

01:05:08 ◼   ► Frames per second is more important than the resolution

01:05:10 ◼   ► and in a game, there's motion blur

01:05:12 ◼   ► and stuff's moving around

01:05:15 ◼   ► but them's the rules and it's a challenge.

01:05:18 ◼   ► It's really hard technically for a lot of modern iOS games

01:05:23 ◼   ► to get 30 frames per second at 4K on Apple TV hardware.

01:05:27 ◼   ► So if it's A12 though, I kind of hope it goes

01:05:31 ◼   ► with a price cut and then if it's an A14,

01:05:34 ◼   ► it's oh, this is why they kept the prices as high

01:05:37 ◼   ► and never dropped the price

01:05:38 ◼   ► and it's still selling them at $180

01:05:41 ◼   ► because they plan to go all in with their best chip.

01:05:45 ◼   ► In an Apple TV and really make a play

01:05:48 ◼   ► for selling this as a good computer,

01:05:52 ◼   ► a good game system, whatever else to hook up to your TV.

01:05:55 ◼   ► - And it's such a, when the Apple TV 4K finally came out,

01:06:00 ◼   ► I know there was just a bunch of stuff going on

01:06:01 ◼   ► with like trying to decide should it be a media box,

01:06:04 ◼   ► should it be a higher end premium console,

01:06:06 ◼   ► what should the pricing be?

01:06:07 ◼   ► And then they had a bunch

01:06:08 ◼   ► of really interested game developers

01:06:10 ◼   ► when the future of apps were apps

01:06:12 ◼   ► who because of the market of the iPhone,

01:06:13 ◼   ► they were really eager to see

01:06:15 ◼   ► if they could do that again on the Apple TV.

01:06:17 ◼   ► And then at the last minute, they said,

01:06:18 ◼   ► no, you have to use the Siri remote

01:06:20 ◼   ► and you have to use on-demand resources.

01:06:21 ◼   ► And they're just like, okay, we're gonna wait and see then.

01:06:24 ◼   ► And there was never anything for them to see.

01:06:25 ◼   ► It didn't take off.

01:06:27 ◼   ► So I just hope that if they're gonna go

01:06:28 ◼   ► with that as their strategy, they do a holistic strategy

01:06:31 ◼   ► and it's less about conforming to what Apple wants

01:06:34 ◼   ► and more about how can we get developers

01:06:35 ◼   ► to make really good titles for this.

01:06:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think I was talking about it

01:06:39 ◼   ► with Snell recently on my show,

01:06:40 ◼   ► but to me, their requirement that Apple Arcade games

01:06:45 ◼   ► fully support Apple TV and Apple TV 4K, with no exceptions,

01:06:51 ◼   ► there's no Apple Arcade game that isn't playable on them,

01:06:54 ◼   ► is to me a very good sign.

01:06:56 ◼   ► I mean, again, maybe it's wishful thinking,

01:06:59 ◼   ► but as somebody who's really hopeful

01:07:01 ◼   ► that they're committed to Apple TV as a standalone platform,

01:07:04 ◼   ► that's pretty significant 'cause Apple Arcade

01:07:07 ◼   ► is clearly a major initiative for them.

01:07:09 ◼   ► It is one of only a handful of elements

01:07:11 ◼   ► of the Apple One bundle.

01:07:13 ◼   ► They promote the heck out of it in the App Store.

01:07:16 ◼   ► They continue to produce,

01:07:18 ◼   ► I don't know if that's the right verb.

01:07:19 ◼   ► I mean, would you call it produce?

01:07:20 ◼   ► I don't know what credit Apple gets for the games

01:07:22 ◼   ► on Apple TV, but I'll call them the producers.

01:07:25 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:07:27 ◼   ► - They continue to produce games, hopefully.

01:07:31 ◼   ► I don't know, I think it would be very exciting

01:07:32 ◼   ► if they made a sort of, let's backtrack significantly

01:07:37 ◼   ► and come at this idea of pitching people on Apple TV

01:07:42 ◼   ► as a game console differently.

01:07:46 ◼   ► - If they're gonna do it,

01:07:46 ◼   ► I want them to go all in and do it.

01:07:48 ◼   ► Don't do any half measures.

01:07:49 ◼   ► Don't do any last minute changes.

01:07:51 ◼   ► Make the developers ridiculously happy,

01:07:54 ◼   ► and that'll make the customers happy.

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01:09:06 ◼   ► What else? Tiles, right? AirTags?

01:09:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:09:10 ◼   ► - I mean, this is the one that's like,

01:09:12 ◼   ► it's gotta come eventually, right?

01:09:14 ◼   ► I mean--

01:09:14 ◼   ► - Unless it gets air-powered.

01:09:16 ◼   ► - Right, and even then, it feels like they would

01:09:18 ◼   ► just somehow get word out, right?

01:09:20 ◼   ► I mean, and it's like,

01:09:20 ◼   ► I know it's a little different situation than AirPower

01:09:23 ◼   ► 'cause they actually announced it on stage and showed it,

01:09:26 ◼   ► and they've never officially said a word about the tags,

01:09:31 ◼   ► but man, this is one that really feels--

01:09:34 ◼   ► - They don't even hide the strings anymore.

01:09:35 ◼   ► Like the last few versions of iOS

01:09:37 ◼   ► have just had everything in them.

01:09:39 ◼   ► - It's been a while.

01:09:40 ◼   ► I mean, it's not just like betas.

01:09:42 ◼   ► And who knows?

01:09:45 ◼   ► If it's a COVID-type thing,

01:09:46 ◼   ► and it's like couldn't produce them,

01:09:48 ◼   ► add production problems.

01:09:50 ◼   ► I still don't know.

01:09:52 ◼   ► I'm curious about this,

01:09:55 ◼   ► and it certainly is the least likely

01:09:58 ◼   ► to be announced in a press release

01:09:59 ◼   ► because I feel like they really wanna tell

01:10:01 ◼   ► a story around them.

01:10:02 ◼   ► I still don't know what the heck

01:10:04 ◼   ► you're supposed to use them for.

01:10:05 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:10:08 ◼   ► - I think it's just like you said,

01:10:09 ◼   ► it's like a tile-like product

01:10:10 ◼   ► where it's supposed to give the benefits of apples,

01:10:13 ◼   ► and you find my network,

01:10:14 ◼   ► a privacy first,

01:10:15 ◼   ► but a powerfully, massively distributed location network

01:10:20 ◼   ► to anything, your wallet, your bag, your backpack.

01:10:22 ◼   ► My concern and why I really want an event

01:10:25 ◼   ► is that even though tiles have been

01:10:27 ◼   ► on the market for years,

01:10:29 ◼   ► and even though you could buy

01:10:30 ◼   ► pretty much any smartphone to do this,

01:10:32 ◼   ► the minute these things are announced already

01:10:33 ◼   ► before they've been announced,

01:10:35 ◼   ► people are just gonna call them a stalking device

01:10:37 ◼   ► and say that Apple,

01:10:38 ◼   ► the same way like they do with accessibility technology,

01:10:40 ◼   ► like the remote listening on AirPods,

01:10:41 ◼   ► it's a spycraft technology,

01:10:43 ◼   ► and we're gonna have to deal with

01:10:44 ◼   ► front page headlines for a week over this.

01:10:47 ◼   ► - It is true,

01:10:47 ◼   ► and going back to the rule

01:10:49 ◼   ► that everything is predicted by science fiction

01:10:51 ◼   ► and comic books,

01:10:52 ◼   ► Spider-Man's had the spider trackers since the '60s.

01:10:57 ◼   ► Peter Parker had these little,

01:10:59 ◼   ► and of course, he took the time

01:11:01 ◼   ► to make them in the shape of a Spider-Man logo

01:11:04 ◼   ► so that anybody who found one attached to their car

01:11:07 ◼   ► would know that it was Spider-Man who was tracking them.

01:11:10 ◼   ► But it's the same product, right?

01:11:12 ◼   ► It is the Spider-Man tracker.

01:11:13 ◼   ► You just stick it on things,

01:11:15 ◼   ► and the whole point of Spider-Man's doing it

01:11:18 ◼   ► was to stalk people.

01:11:21 ◼   ► We didn't really see him as doing something wrong

01:11:25 ◼   ► 'cause he was using it against

01:11:27 ◼   ► criminal elements and supervillains.

01:11:30 ◼   ► - There was some speculation,

01:11:32 ◼   ► I forget if somebody found something in the beta or what,

01:11:34 ◼   ► but that there's clear signs that Apple's got a feature

01:11:39 ◼   ► to notify you if there's one near you?

01:11:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, if you're an iOS user

01:11:43 ◼   ► and there's another identified tile next to you,

01:11:45 ◼   ► it'll tell you,

01:11:46 ◼   ► but that's interesting because let's say you're on a bus

01:11:48 ◼   ► and the person next to you,

01:11:49 ◼   ► it just happens to have a tile in their bag,

01:11:51 ◼   ► or if you have an Android phone,

01:11:52 ◼   ► it's not gonna tell you squat.

01:11:54 ◼   ► So I'm curious to see how that's implemented.

01:11:56 ◼   ► - Right, you could see why they'd be thinking about it,

01:12:00 ◼   ► but then as soon as that was announced,

01:12:01 ◼   ► other people were like,

01:12:03 ◼   ► well, what good does that do me?

01:12:04 ◼   ► I wanted to put one on my bicycle seat or whatever

01:12:08 ◼   ► to track this item in case it gets stolen.

01:12:13 ◼   ► What good does it do if it's gonna tell somebody

01:12:15 ◼   ► who stole the thing I'm tracking

01:12:17 ◼   ► that there's a tracker on it?

01:12:18 ◼   ► And the answer, I guess, is going to be to clearly state

01:12:22 ◼   ► this is not an anti-theft device.

01:12:26 ◼   ► For privacy reasons, don't buy these air tags

01:12:31 ◼   ► as anti-theft devices.

01:12:33 ◼   ► That's not what they're for.

01:12:34 ◼   ► - It's also possible it would be more nuanced than that,

01:12:37 ◼   ► and it could be that they're in a passive mode

01:12:39 ◼   ► most of the time and they don't register anything

01:12:41 ◼   ► because they're not doing anything,

01:12:42 ◼   ► and then when you put them in lost mode,

01:12:44 ◼   ► then somebody would detect it.

01:12:46 ◼   ► And at that point, you probably know where your bike is.

01:12:49 ◼   ► You're putting them in a more active state,

01:12:52 ◼   ► so it's okay to alert people about that,

01:12:54 ◼   ► and no one can be tracking you in the passive state

01:12:56 ◼   ► anyway, you'd have to actually turn it on.

01:12:58 ◼   ► So I think that would probably be a fair compromise.

01:13:01 ◼   ► - I just don't know where I would put them.

01:13:04 ◼   ► And it's like, well, I guess I could put one

01:13:05 ◼   ► in my carry-on luggage bag, my suitcase,

01:13:08 ◼   ► and then when I check baggage at the airport,

01:13:11 ◼   ► I can obsessively check whether it made it onto the plane.

01:13:15 ◼   ► My wife does this with American Airlines.

01:13:19 ◼   ► If you have an American Airlines account,

01:13:22 ◼   ► you can use their app and it'll tell you,

01:13:26 ◼   ► you check your bags, then you go through security,

01:13:29 ◼   ► and then you go and wait, and then you board your plane,

01:13:31 ◼   ► and then you can sit there and look at the app

01:13:34 ◼   ► or the website and it'll tell you,

01:13:36 ◼   ► you have three bags that have been loaded onto flight 1821.

01:13:41 ◼   ► And I don't even wanna know, right?

01:13:43 ◼   ► 'Cause it's like, she wants to know,

01:13:47 ◼   ► and so she loads it and she always tells me,

01:13:49 ◼   ► but I would rather just get to my destination

01:13:51 ◼   ► and find out then because it would decrease

01:13:55 ◼   ► the amount of time where I'm upset and angry

01:13:57 ◼   ► that my bag didn't make it onto the plane, right?

01:14:01 ◼   ► Just don't even tell me.

01:14:02 ◼   ► 'Cause it doesn't help you, there's nothing you can do.

01:14:05 ◼   ► What are you gonna do, get off the plane?

01:14:07 ◼   ► So I don't know, and I don't need it.

01:14:11 ◼   ► So that would be my one case.

01:14:12 ◼   ► The only time I'm separated from my suitcases

01:14:14 ◼   ► is when I'm loading them onto a plane.

01:14:16 ◼   ► I just don't know where I'd put these tiles.

01:14:18 ◼   ► And maybe I'm lacking in imagination

01:14:20 ◼   ► 'cause I've spent the last 12-plus months

01:14:23 ◼   ► barely leaving my house.

01:14:25 ◼   ► And when I do, taking--

01:14:25 ◼   ► - Did you use tiles?

01:14:27 ◼   ► - I had the regular tile brand one.

01:14:30 ◼   ► My wife bought me some years ago,

01:14:32 ◼   ► and I put one in my computer bag, and I didn't know where.

01:14:35 ◼   ► It was a very kind gift, she thought it sounded nerdy.

01:14:38 ◼   ► It was very sweet of her.

01:14:40 ◼   ► And I put one in my computer bag and never lost it,

01:14:43 ◼   ► and so I never even used it.

01:14:46 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:14:47 ◼   ► I put one in there, I set up the app,

01:14:49 ◼   ► and I never had a need for it.

01:14:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I had the tiles too,

01:14:55 ◼   ► and I did put them in them.

01:14:56 ◼   ► And I remember a couple times I'd left my bag behind,

01:14:58 ◼   ► then I went, but I never needed a tile

01:15:00 ◼   ► because I was only at one place,

01:15:01 ◼   ► so I knew exactly where to go get it.

01:15:03 ◼   ► - It doesn't sound like it's a product.

01:15:05 ◼   ► I mean, what other things would people want to track?

01:15:08 ◼   ► I know people might want to track their kids

01:15:11 ◼   ► for safety reasons.

01:15:13 ◼   ► - The dogs.

01:15:15 ◼   ► - Your dog, would you use it as a dog tag?

01:15:18 ◼   ► It looks like, I don't know.

01:15:22 ◼   ► It's, I don't know.

01:15:23 ◼   ► I expect it to come.

01:15:26 ◼   ► It seems like it's overdue.

01:15:27 ◼   ► It doesn't sound like it's been canceled,

01:15:29 ◼   ► so I guess it's coming.

01:15:30 ◼   ► I'm most curious what they're gonna say it's useful for.

01:15:34 ◼   ► - And it's interesting because they went to all the trouble

01:15:37 ◼   ► of making it, like whether it was for antitrust issues

01:15:40 ◼   ► or to whatever, they made an API out of it,

01:15:43 ◼   ► announced the WWDC so that third parties

01:15:45 ◼   ► could use the Find My network as well,

01:15:48 ◼   ► and you'd have a variety of products.

01:15:50 ◼   ► I'm guessing the Apple one will just be for people

01:15:52 ◼   ► who have a high brand affinity for Apple

01:15:53 ◼   ► and want something functionally Apple in their keychain,

01:15:56 ◼   ► whether they use it or not, it's just like a brand value play

01:16:00 ◼   ► but I'm curious to see what third parties

01:16:02 ◼   ► decide to do something, like will there be Belkin versions

01:16:06 ◼   ► or whatever, and if people will find anything novel

01:16:08 ◼   ► to do with them.

01:16:09 ◼   ► - And I guess I didn't mention your keychain.

01:16:13 ◼   ► I guess that's the prototypical thing people often lose

01:16:17 ◼   ► where a bottle cap size thing is not a big ask.

01:16:22 ◼   ► I don't know, I don't lose my keys.

01:16:26 ◼   ► - But this way Apple can sell you,

01:16:30 ◼   ► because they don't come with a key attached,

01:16:31 ◼   ► you have to buy that separately like Apple Watch,

01:16:33 ◼   ► so there'll be a whole third party

01:16:35 ◼   ► accessory infrastructure built into it.

01:16:37 ◼   ► - You know, it'd be interesting if they do that

01:16:39 ◼   ► and then maybe they have a breakthrough design

01:16:43 ◼   ► for the key ring part.

01:16:45 ◼   ► - Yes. - Right?

01:16:46 ◼   ► - And then there's an Hermes,

01:16:48 ◼   ► I have to say it properly, I get yelled at,

01:16:50 ◼   ► a keychain to match your Apple Watch band.

01:16:52 ◼   ► - Right, right, they could sell little leather things

01:16:55 ◼   ► to put the AirTag in.

01:16:58 ◼   ► You know what, that's probably the whole idea.

01:17:01 ◼   ► It's all just, it's really just a keychain

01:17:03 ◼   ► and it's just an excuse to sell $100 Hermes keychain holders.

01:17:08 ◼   ► - Solved it.

01:17:12 ◼   ► - All right, what about Max?

01:17:16 ◼   ► Do we think we're gonna get new Mac hardware in April?

01:17:20 ◼   ► - I want, like I want that 16-inch M1, M1X,

01:17:24 ◼   ► and whatever Apple calls it, Macbook Pro so much.

01:17:28 ◼   ► I have a feeling we might have to wait 'til WWDC

01:17:31 ◼   ► to get them, the same with the iMac,

01:17:33 ◼   ► but I want those just as fast as is humanly possible.

01:17:36 ◼   ► - But on the other hand, they canceled the iMac Pro already.

01:17:40 ◼   ► Now, does that mean anything,

01:17:42 ◼   ► or is it really just a reflection

01:17:45 ◼   ► of Intel discontinuing the Xeon chips that were used in it

01:17:48 ◼   ► and they're not going to re-engineer the iMac Pro

01:17:52 ◼   ► for even a speed bump version of Xeon chips

01:17:55 ◼   ► that they're planning to do away with anyway?

01:17:58 ◼   ► Like I sort of feel like the iMac Pro's discontinuation date

01:18:03 ◼   ► doesn't really, there's not,

01:18:06 ◼   ► I wouldn't read too much into that

01:18:08 ◼   ► on the expectation of M1 iMacs, but maybe?

01:18:11 ◼   ► - I totally agree, and also like the low-end

01:18:13 ◼   ► 21.5-inch iMacs have been discontinued,

01:18:15 ◼   ► but I think that's more along the lines

01:18:17 ◼   ► of we're running out and it doesn't make,

01:18:18 ◼   ► these aren't NFC, NFTs, we can't just mint them

01:18:21 ◼   ► when we want to, we're not gonna do a whole run

01:18:22 ◼   ► just for like three more, to keep three more of those

01:18:25 ◼   ► in stock until we officially announce something.

01:18:27 ◼   ► - Right, it sounds like the rumors are,

01:18:30 ◼   ► and I think even without paying attention to the rumors,

01:18:33 ◼   ► it makes intuitive sense to me that for iMacs,

01:18:36 ◼   ► as decades go on, screens get bigger.

01:18:41 ◼   ► So the small size changes from 21 inches to 24 inches,

01:18:45 ◼   ► the big size changes from 27 to 30,

01:18:48 ◼   ► that sounds about right to me.

01:18:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, or 32 to match the Pro Display XDR.

01:18:53 ◼   ► I've heard both rumors.

01:18:54 ◼   ► - That would be really nice too.

01:18:55 ◼   ► It also seems like that's getting close

01:18:58 ◼   ► to the upper limit, right?

01:18:59 ◼   ► Like, 'cause in theory, if you have a huge desk, sure,

01:19:04 ◼   ► a 50-inch display, there are some people

01:19:07 ◼   ► who love a setup like that,

01:19:08 ◼   ► and people with two 30-inch displays,

01:19:10 ◼   ► and they have effectively a 60-inch effective

01:19:14 ◼   ► two-display thing, wouldn't it be great

01:19:16 ◼   ► if there was one unified 60-inch iMac display?

01:19:20 ◼   ► In theory, that's fine, but I think it's too niche

01:19:23 ◼   ► to dream that they would actually sell something like that

01:19:27 ◼   ► as an iMac.

01:19:28 ◼   ► But does seem like 27 inches sort of dated as the big size?

01:19:33 ◼   ► - Yes, yeah, especially like, I tend to think,

01:19:38 ◼   ► you know, they haven't done this recently,

01:19:39 ◼   ► but previously Apple would make the iMac panel

01:19:42 ◼   ► and the Cinema Display panel the same.

01:19:45 ◼   ► You know, you could just choose

01:19:45 ◼   ► which one you wanted to get.

01:19:47 ◼   ► And obviously they haven't continued

01:19:48 ◼   ► the Cinema Display series, and the Pro Display is,

01:19:51 ◼   ► I think you famously called it 6K for 6K,

01:19:53 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:19:55 ◼   ► which is a lot.

01:19:56 ◼   ► But just having an iMac that size

01:19:58 ◼   ► with like a proper mini-LED display,

01:20:00 ◼   ► if they can do it at that scale,

01:20:03 ◼   ► yeah, I think that's a significant,

01:20:04 ◼   ► especially if it gets that redesign,

01:20:05 ◼   ► that's a significant upgrade for them.

01:20:07 ◼   ► And that industrial design is so long in the tooth now.

01:20:10 ◼   ► Like it still looks good, but the bezels are big,

01:20:12 ◼   ► it's got that pregnant bump on the back,

01:20:14 ◼   ► and it hasn't been updated in years.

01:20:16 ◼   ► - You could get M1 performance

01:20:22 ◼   ► out of a totally flat display, clearly, right?

01:20:26 ◼   ► There's no reason for any kind of bump in the back anymore.

01:20:29 ◼   ► And if it quote unquote only performs

01:20:32 ◼   ► as well as the existing M1 Max, that's great.

01:20:35 ◼   ► I mean, there are some Pro needs from the iMac Pro,

01:20:40 ◼   ► that it would require like an M1X or something,

01:20:44 ◼   ► but clearly the thermals are there.

01:20:48 ◼   ► And the iMac Pro showed Apple's prowess

01:20:52 ◼   ► at thermal design anyway,

01:20:55 ◼   ► that they could run these Xeon chips

01:20:57 ◼   ► in a totally silent form factor,

01:21:00 ◼   ► or nearly silent form factor.

01:21:04 ◼   ► - So I'm excited to see it.

01:21:05 ◼   ► I don't feel it in my gut for April.

01:21:08 ◼   ► It feels to me like,

01:21:10 ◼   ► just feels in my gut like they'll just spend

01:21:15 ◼   ► a big chunk of the WWDC keynote

01:21:17 ◼   ► bragging about what a great success

01:21:22 ◼   ► the initial Apple Silicon Macs were,

01:21:24 ◼   ► how great it was that developed.

01:21:26 ◼   ► A year ago we announced this.

01:21:28 ◼   ► You guys, you developers did a fantastic job

01:21:32 ◼   ► updating all of your apps and being ready,

01:21:34 ◼   ► and we launched the first series of M1 Macs in November,

01:21:39 ◼   ► and they've been, here's a quote from Joanna Stern

01:21:42 ◼   ► at the Wall Street Journal, and what a great success.

01:21:47 ◼   ► Customers love them, and here's pictures of people loving--

01:21:53 ◼   ► - Industry leading, power per watts.

01:21:55 ◼   ► - Right, and battery life and blah, blah, blah.

01:21:58 ◼   ► Now we're ready for the next step, and the next step.

01:22:01 ◼   ► And just do a big announcement and announce pro MacBooks.

01:22:06 ◼   ► And again, I know that there's a 13-inch MacBook Pro

01:22:09 ◼   ► with the M1, but do the one with four ports

01:22:11 ◼   ► and that supports as many displays as you can fit on a desk.

01:22:15 ◼   ► Do the 16-inch MacBook Pro, have an iMac story,

01:22:19 ◼   ► and talk about how the iMac now

01:22:22 ◼   ► is a totally credible pro level.

01:22:25 ◼   ► It will be thanks to the M1 Pro desktop.

01:22:28 ◼   ► And maybe, maybe even, I mean, the only other Mac

01:22:32 ◼   ► that's left is the Mac Pro, but do it all at once, right?

01:22:37 ◼   ► So what's left?

01:22:38 ◼   ► There's the pro level 13-inch MacBook Pro

01:22:43 ◼   ► with four ports and higher specs.

01:22:47 ◼   ► The entire 16-inch MacBook Pro,

01:22:49 ◼   ► possibly the 13-inch would go to 14 inches, right?

01:22:54 ◼   ► And that it would be more of a bezel to bezel,

01:22:57 ◼   ► where the footprint doesn't grow,

01:22:59 ◼   ► but the same way without growing the footprint of the device.

01:23:01 ◼   ► - They've finally snapped the bezels.

01:23:03 ◼   ► - Right.

01:23:04 ◼   ► Maybe an exciting new design, new colors for them, who knows?

01:23:09 ◼   ► iMac obviously had to, you know,

01:23:12 ◼   ► from one end of the spectrum to the other,

01:23:14 ◼   ► still hasn't been touched.

01:23:15 ◼   ► And the Mac Pro--

01:23:18 ◼   ► - Maybe an M1 Mac Mini, like an M1X Mac Mini,

01:23:21 ◼   ► because they reintroduced the silver version

01:23:23 ◼   ► and it feels like the pro version,

01:23:25 ◼   ► well, the pro version is still Intel,

01:23:27 ◼   ► and they could do like with the same chip

01:23:28 ◼   ► that goes in the 16-inch MacBook Pro could go in there.

01:23:30 ◼   ► - Right, and that's the same sort of situation

01:23:32 ◼   ► with the quote-unquote 13-inch MacBook Pro,

01:23:35 ◼   ► where there are pro ones and non-pro ones, right?

01:23:38 ◼   ► With more ports and the capability to drive more,

01:23:43 ◼   ► bigger and more displays, et cetera.

01:23:45 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:23:46 ◼   ► - You know, is it too much--

01:23:51 ◼   ► - What do you think about the colors on the iMac?

01:23:52 ◼   ► 'Cause that was a weird rumor to me,

01:23:54 ◼   ► not that they haven't made colored iMacs before,

01:23:56 ◼   ► but like in the modern era,

01:23:58 ◼   ► just having to manage supply chain

01:24:00 ◼   ► and how many weeks of inventory

01:24:02 ◼   ► on like a pink or a sky blue iMac, it's interesting to me.

01:24:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, I say why not though, right?

01:24:08 ◼   ► And I don't know.

01:24:09 ◼   ► I would like to see them do something like that.

01:24:12 ◼   ► It seems like it's been a little bit too boring

01:24:15 ◼   ► for too long that you can get your iMac in one color

01:24:18 ◼   ► and one color only, and that's aluminum.

01:24:21 ◼   ► And I know the iMac Pro had the darker color,

01:24:23 ◼   ► but again, only one choice.

01:24:26 ◼   ► So I kind of--

01:24:27 ◼   ► - Why can't you admit that?

01:24:28 ◼   ► It was one of the brief things that we were at,

01:24:29 ◼   ► and I was just like, why can't we get the big stuff

01:24:30 ◼   ► in rose gold?

01:24:31 ◼   ► And they were like, it's too big, it's too much rose gold.

01:24:34 ◼   ► And I said, I'm gonna file a radar asking for this rose gold.

01:24:37 ◼   ► - I just don't know if the actual rumored colors,

01:24:40 ◼   ► which the rumors seem to be doing it all sort of like

01:24:44 ◼   ► the iPads are colored.

01:24:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

01:24:48 ◼   ► - Where they're all sort of muted light colors.

01:24:51 ◼   ► Like, I don't know, why not do the iMac ones

01:24:54 ◼   ► in very bold colors, right?

01:24:56 ◼   ► I mean, that's--

01:24:57 ◼   ► - Like the iPhone 12.

01:24:58 ◼   ► - Right, do it like iPhone 12 style

01:25:00 ◼   ► where there's a black one, and it is black.

01:25:02 ◼   ► And do one where it's product red,

01:25:05 ◼   ► and it is just a big, bright red iMac.

01:25:08 ◼   ► And if there's no bezel on the front,

01:25:11 ◼   ► the red wouldn't distract you from the display.

01:25:13 ◼   ► It would only be something you see at the base

01:25:15 ◼   ► and from the back.

01:25:17 ◼   ► I think some people would love that.

01:25:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, like the old product red iPhones

01:25:22 ◼   ► when they were still aluminum.

01:25:23 ◼   ► Just that look was so good.

01:25:25 ◼   ► - Right, if they get rid of that chin,

01:25:26 ◼   ► which I would expect that they could and would like to do,

01:25:30 ◼   ► and so that you really just see your iMac from facing it

01:25:34 ◼   ► is really just a display that goes as close as practical

01:25:38 ◼   ► to edge to edge, I think that opens up the door

01:25:41 ◼   ► to bolder colors that would be distracting

01:25:44 ◼   ► if you saw a big strip of it as a chin

01:25:46 ◼   ► at the bottom of the display.

01:25:49 ◼   ► - Do a vibrant blue iPhone 12 blue style blue iMac.

01:25:54 ◼   ► That to me would be the way to go.

01:25:57 ◼   ► I think the muted ones that just sort of look like aluminum,

01:26:01 ◼   ► but like dip, you know, like an Easter egg into a dip,

01:26:03 ◼   ► and it's got like a pink tint.

01:26:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, give us blue Dalmatian and flower power,

01:26:10 ◼   ► you cowards.

01:26:11 ◼   ► - How about this?

01:26:12 ◼   ► Make a black MacBook Pro, or nearly black, right?

01:26:16 ◼   ► Space gray, like not space gray.

01:26:18 ◼   ► I'm talking like, you know, black, black.

01:26:20 ◼   ► - Like iPhone 7 black.

01:26:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, people would go nuts for that, I think,

01:26:23 ◼   ► 'cause I think we've had the same sort of very narrow range

01:26:28 ◼   ► of aluminumish colors.