The Talk Show

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00:01:25 ◼   ► One down, one down five to go. Maybe only four to go. Are you

00:01:30 ◼   ► following the the home run race? Some I'm he's still stuck at 60

00:01:34 ◼   ► right? Yeah, he had as we record as we record today on Wednesday,

00:01:39 ◼   ► the 28th. Now by the time people listen to us, he might have

00:01:42 ◼   ► already have Jared jizz. We're talking about Aaron judge from

00:01:45 ◼   ► the New York Yankees. He's at 60 home runs. The American League

00:01:48 ◼   ► record is 61. That's what people are talking about. I want to

00:01:51 ◼   ► I'll come back to that. By the time people listen to us, he

00:01:55 ◼   ► might be at 61. He might be at 62. He could could be at 63. Who

00:01:58 ◼   ► knows? He more than that. Yeah, right. But last night he went he

00:02:02 ◼   ► went, did he even have a plate appear? Or did he even have an

00:02:04 ◼   ► a bat? He got he got four walks. I heard he had four walks last

00:02:07 ◼   ► night against the Toronto Blue Jays with that's part of that's

00:02:10 ◼   ► part of the game, right? And it's you know, I mean, the Blue

00:02:12 ◼   ► Jays are in it. So right, you know, they it's legitimate for

00:02:15 ◼   ► that because the night before he got intentionally walked, and

00:02:18 ◼   ► they won the game, the Blue Jays won the game, which they needed.

00:02:20 ◼   ► So you can't fault them for that. Right? There's there's no

00:02:24 ◼   ► whatever reluctance any team has, and any pitcher might have to be

00:02:29 ◼   ► the team and the pitcher to give up a record breaking remembered

00:02:34 ◼   ► home run. You don't have to be a sports psychologist to to get

00:02:38 ◼   ► that nobody really wants to be that pitcher. The Blue Jays are

00:02:40 ◼   ► definitely trying to win. They're not walking them for

00:02:42 ◼   ► that reason. I listened to the the Keith Olbermann has brought

00:02:46 ◼   ► back his old TV show countdown is now a podcast and it's I just

00:02:51 ◼   ► love it. It's literally with with overcast speed ratings. I

00:02:55 ◼   ► probably get through in about half an hour. It's like a half

00:02:57 ◼   ► hour a day like a daily news podcast. But of course, Keith

00:03:00 ◼   ► Olbermann while the main focus of his show is US National

00:03:04 ◼   ► Affairs, for lack of a better term. He's big, big base on a

00:03:08 ◼   ► sports sports band. Yeah, he used to used to be a ESPN Sports

00:03:13 ◼   ► Center. That's probably where most people in the 90s got to

00:03:16 ◼   ► know him. Certainly came to Nash and Dan Patrick. Right,

00:03:19 ◼   ► right. The sort of still famous is like maybe is it nostalgia? I

00:03:24 ◼   ► don't know, probably in my mind, the seminal duo, who ran Sports

00:03:27 ◼   ► Center, my favorite running gag of the era was they were the 90s

00:03:33 ◼   ► of the the Dan Patrick Keith Olbermann Sports Center was

00:03:37 ◼   ► every weekend. If they were doing Sports Center, and there's

00:03:41 ◼   ► a NASCAR race on they would tell you who came in first who came

00:03:44 ◼   ► in second who came in third and where Dick trickle finished. Of

00:03:49 ◼   ► course. Dick trickle was a NASCAR racer with let's say a

00:03:56 ◼   ► very amusing name. And they would never say why but they

00:03:59 ◼   ► would just say so and so came in first second and here was third

00:04:03 ◼   ► and Dick trickle finished 21st. And they wouldn't laugh they

00:04:07 ◼   ► wouldn't giggle but they would always tell you where Dick

00:04:09 ◼   ► trickle finished. Anyway, my favorite I think I think it was

00:04:12 ◼   ► Olbermann was they were talking they must have been talking

00:04:15 ◼   ► about a baseball game and he said that's a that's an E7 an

00:04:18 ◼   ► error on the on the left fielder that's an E7 if you're scoring

00:04:21 ◼   ► at home, or even if you're alone. That's a little bit of a

00:04:27 ◼   ► thinker you gotta it takes a second but does. So anyway,

00:04:31 ◼   ► I Olbermann has been talking about the home run race and

00:04:34 ◼   ► there are so many weird baseball is such a weird sport and I we

00:04:38 ◼   ► have nerd stuff to talk about but it everyone loves when we

00:04:43 ◼   ► talk about baseball. Absolutely definitely do it. But but the

00:04:45 ◼   ► very strangest thing about baseball in the US at least is

00:04:50 ◼   ► that it predates all the other major sports by decades that the

00:04:55 ◼   ► history of Major League Baseball goes back to like the 18 70s

00:04:59 ◼   ► 1860s. I mean, we're talking like when Lincoln's assassination

00:05:03 ◼   ► was fresh news, fresh. And the rules were very different. And

00:05:09 ◼   ► like I know some of this but I forget it over time just how

00:05:13 ◼   ► different some of the rules are. But you know, at one point it

00:05:16 ◼   ► was five balls to get a walk. Okay, there was one season the

00:05:22 ◼   ► all time Major League record I don't have it offhand here in

00:05:24 ◼   ► front of me but the all time Major League record for batting

00:05:27 ◼   ► average. If you just go through every season and pick the player

00:05:31 ◼   ► who finished a season with the highest batting average is not

00:05:35 ◼   ► the record that most people generally most people go to

00:05:38 ◼   ► Rogers Hornsby who I think bad at 420 something in 1920 might

00:05:43 ◼   ► have been 420 in 1920. But that's not the highest recorded

00:05:46 ◼   ► and batting average in Major League Baseball some guy in like

00:05:49 ◼   ► 1871 hit 497 or something like that. But but what was different

00:05:54 ◼   ► than they count was a walk a walk was a hit. I thought I think

00:05:58 ◼   ► that for one season so it was in today's terms is on base

00:06:03 ◼   ► percentage which is still a very, very, very good on base

00:06:06 ◼   ► percentage but so now now I'm looking up what was bonds is OBP

00:06:11 ◼   ► in that year when he broke the walk record and it was six Oh,

00:06:15 ◼   ► it'd be Yeah, 609 which is crazy just insane to think in

00:06:20 ◼   ► that sport where it's so notoriously difficult to to get

00:06:23 ◼   ► on base get on base. It wasn't even close that he was on base.

00:06:27 ◼   ► He was on base three out of five times. Yeah. Trying to think

00:06:31 ◼   ► what else the gist of it is people, there's sort of two

00:06:35 ◼   ► sides on this home run record where to sort of stay above the

00:06:41 ◼   ► fray, people are talking about the American League, the

00:06:43 ◼   ► American League, which is 61 and then there's a nice number and

00:06:47 ◼   ► it's near and dear to Yankee fans hearts because the original

00:06:51 ◼   ► record holder in the American League was Babe Ruth 1927 and

00:06:54 ◼   ► then the first player to beat it was also a Yankee Roger Maris in

00:06:59 ◼   ► what was it 1961 61 because it was 61 and 61 is easy to remember

00:07:03 ◼   ► right sort of like the Rogers Hornsby 420 and 1920 which I

00:07:08 ◼   ► might be I might be wrong about but it sounds good. I know it

00:07:12 ◼   ► for Maris it's definitely Yeah, 61 and 61 but there's a lot of

00:07:15 ◼   ► fans do you don't have to be a Yankee fan there's a lot of fans

00:07:18 ◼   ► who view all of the season home run marks above 61 as being a bit

00:07:26 ◼   ► suspect because of the

00:07:29 ◼   ► what was there was there something unusual in the 90s in

00:07:33 ◼   ► baseball john

00:07:34 ◼   ► the the single season home run record above here's what they

00:07:38 ◼   ► are so tied at 10th is Babe Ruth at 59 in 1921 I forgot that John

00:07:44 ◼   ► Carlos Stanton hit 59 in 2017 Babe Ruth is 60 was 1927 Aaron

00:07:50 ◼   ► judges already tied with him then Roger Maris 61 and 61 and

00:07:54 ◼   ► now you get to the late 90s number six is Sammy Sosa 99 with

00:08:00 ◼   ► 63 Sosa in 2001 hit 64 Mark McGuire hit 65 and 99 Sammy Sosa

00:08:08 ◼   ► hit 66 in 98 Mark McGuire hit 70 in 98 and then in 2001 Barry

00:08:16 ◼   ► Bonds hit 7373 right so McGuire is on there a couple of times

00:08:21 ◼   ► Sosa is on there 123 times 9098 99 in 2001 I don't know what

00:08:28 ◼   ► happened to him in 2000 yeah they're they're all bunched

00:08:30 ◼   ► together and everybody knows that it was the steroid era

00:08:36 ◼   ► performance enhancing drugs era of baseball but there's no

00:08:40 ◼   ► asterisks next to any of those records because no it wasn't

00:08:44 ◼   ► technically against the rules people I mean it's a very

00:08:47 ◼   ► complicated area right nobody they did in the backlash to it

00:08:52 ◼   ► did set none of those guys are in the Hall of Fame right none of

00:08:56 ◼   ► those guys are in the Hall of Fame but none of them are banned

00:08:58 ◼   ► from like Pete Rose is literally banned from being in the Hall of

00:09:00 ◼   ► Fame they're not the voters don't even get to vote for him

00:09:02 ◼   ► because baseball determined that he broke this that you know the

00:09:06 ◼   ► rule and as a lifetime suspension from baseball none of

00:09:09 ◼   ► these guys got suspended none of these guys are banned these are

00:09:15 ◼   ► the records it's the way it was

00:09:16 ◼   ► right so so yeah when people say the legitimate home run record I

00:09:20 ◼   ► don't know this these things happened I remember the home run

00:09:23 ◼   ► races between McGuire and Sosa and Bonds is ridiculous season

00:09:28 ◼   ► they happened those are the numbers so I think I think

00:09:31 ◼   ► focusing on the American League record makes more sense just

00:09:34 ◼   ► calling it that way

00:09:36 ◼   ► yeah and and the fans the fans I think the fans sort of have the

00:09:39 ◼   ► right attitude or the fans if he gave if he gets to 61 or even 62

00:09:44 ◼   ► then the fans will certainly Yankee fans will be happy but I

00:09:47 ◼   ► think baseball fans in general want to see it happen and if

00:09:50 ◼   ► people want to consider it the the legitimate home run record

00:09:54 ◼   ► that's that's up to them it doesn't really it doesn't make

00:09:57 ◼   ► that big a difference really

00:09:58 ◼   ► well do you know that until I think like until the 90s there

00:10:02 ◼   ► was an asterisk on Maris's record because he did it in 162

00:10:08 ◼   ► games Babe Ruth hit 60 in 154 games and so judge did 60 in 154

00:10:14 ◼   ► and the sort of the hope was that he would break 60 in 154

00:10:19 ◼   ► fewer and obviously he just tied that right but yeah there's I

00:10:22 ◼   ► mean it's all it's all meaningless anyway ultimately

00:10:25 ◼   ► there's not any money attached to this there's not any directly

00:10:28 ◼   ► anyway it's just it's just fun numbers to debate and so you can

00:10:32 ◼   ► have a nice bar debate over who should be considered the

00:10:34 ◼   ► greatest home run hitter or whatever

00:10:36 ◼   ► so what let me get personal though now you're a Red Sox fan

00:10:39 ◼   ► what I am yes so how even this season how how does how does

00:10:44 ◼   ► that where does that put you in terms of how do you like seeing

00:10:49 ◼   ► judge do this yeah were you hoping he'd get stuck on 59

00:10:52 ◼   ► because screw me as a Yankee or you like well but the other guys

00:10:56 ◼   ► are Yankees anyway right so like Aaron judge seems like a nice

00:10:59 ◼   ► enough guy I have no problem with him he's not like usually

00:11:02 ◼   ► you pick one guy on the other team that you don't like and for

00:11:04 ◼   ► a while was Brett Gardner who's no longer on the team and for no

00:11:07 ◼   ► good reason anyway but wait you don't know who you didn't like

00:11:10 ◼   ► you didn't like yeah Gardner no no I hated Brett Gardner hated

00:11:14 ◼   ► him just for no good reason like I said all right I don't know

00:11:16 ◼   ► who while he was on the team forever so that was part of it

00:11:18 ◼   ► but yeah I don't know like I don't well the thing was judge

00:11:21 ◼   ► he had a shot at doing it before they faced the Red Sox then they

00:11:25 ◼   ► played the Red Sox for four games this past weekend and so

00:11:28 ◼   ► the concern was he would do it against the Red Sox so I guess

00:11:30 ◼   ► like that I was rooting for him to not do it this past weekend

00:11:33 ◼   ► right but yeah if he if he hits I'll tell you what I would I

00:11:36 ◼   ► would have liked to have seen him hit 74 then we don't have to

00:11:39 ◼   ► have this debate about the steroids and so hopefully

00:11:42 ◼   ► somebody some year legitimately hit 74 home runs I don't know if

00:11:47 ◼   ► it'll ever happen but you know I don't have a negative opinion

00:11:49 ◼   ► about it I don't I don't think I think at this point he's

00:11:51 ◼   ► probably going to do it and good for him and I'll tell you what

00:11:54 ◼   ► you might be upset because next year he might be a New York Met

00:11:56 ◼   ► I don't know I don't want to think about it exactly it would

00:11:59 ◼   ► have been better if they'd signed him before the season

00:12:02 ◼   ► yes before before he had one of the greatest seasons of all times

00:12:06 ◼   ► in a contract here yeah I think that would have been better for

00:12:09 ◼   ► them he did do he did the thing that Derek Jeter used to always

00:12:13 ◼   ► do you know and then Jeter stay to Yankee his whole career but

00:12:15 ◼   ► you get towards the end of your career and you get shorter and

00:12:18 ◼   ► shorter contracts and you kind of it comes up more often it's

00:12:21 ◼   ► like one time in the prime of your career where you sign like

00:12:24 ◼   ► a 10 year deal and then you don't have to you don't have to

00:12:27 ◼   ► renegotiate for a decade but when when Jeter's contracts are

00:12:30 ◼   ► up he'd always refused to we can either make a deal before the

00:12:34 ◼   ► season starts or after that season but I'm not I'm not I'm

00:12:38 ◼   ► not going to spend even one minute thinking about this

00:12:40 ◼   ► during the season which isn't an unreasonable position and I

00:12:44 ◼   ► think also a lot of players do that yeah and I think it's sort

00:12:47 ◼   ► of it creates a deadline for the team to make their best offer

00:12:50 ◼   ► before the season it's it's not a bad negotiating tactic either

00:12:54 ◼   ► in addition to being a way to stay focused on the game and

00:12:57 ◼   ► compartmentalize it yeah absolutely yeah before we leave

00:13:01 ◼   ► the subject I will bring up the fact that the over the weekend

00:13:04 ◼   ► the the Friday night baseball game on Apple TV was the Sox

00:13:08 ◼   ► Yankees game right and because of Aaron judge being at 60 it

00:13:15 ◼   ► almost had to Apple it doesn't release Ben Thompson and I

00:13:20 ◼   ► talked about this on dithering but I'll go over it here that

00:13:24 ◼   ► the weird thing about these streaming services like Apple TV

00:13:27 ◼   ► plus and Amazon Prime compared to traditional TV is that in

00:13:32 ◼   ► traditional TV networks love to brag about the ratings and for

00:13:37 ◼   ► my whole lifetime decades and they'd be like oh last night's

00:13:41 ◼   ► Monday Night Football game was the highest rated 39 million

00:13:44 ◼   ► people watch yeah 39 million people watch it was the highest

00:13:47 ◼   ► rated regular season NFL game in seven years or something like

00:13:51 ◼   ► that they'd love to say stuff like that and instead what

00:13:54 ◼   ► everybody does now is effectively I think gives out

00:13:57 ◼   ► the Bezos numbers which it was 200% more than last year yeah it

00:14:00 ◼   ► was it was 1.3 times as Apple hasn't I don't think said

00:14:04 ◼   ► anything like that about it but if they did surely they would

00:14:06 ◼   ► give a number like it was 1.6 times higher than the second

00:14:09 ◼   ► rated Friday Night Baseball game of the year but without a

00:14:13 ◼   ► baseline you don't know what that means but so wait did they

00:14:15 ◼   ► say anything I don't I don't think they said anything you're

00:14:18 ◼   ► just assuming it was it was well watched but it was the

00:14:20 ◼   ► fact that it was on it was the first time to my record

00:14:24 ◼   ► recognition all season where my worlds have collide I think you

00:14:28 ◼   ► and I talked about this when you were on six months ago at the

00:14:30 ◼   ► outside right yep right when they started right broadcast

00:14:33 ◼   ► because they just announced the Apple had the Friday Night

00:14:36 ◼   ► Baseball deal and you and me being baseball fans we talked

00:14:40 ◼   ► about it this was the first time that I'm aware of that Friday

00:14:43 ◼   ► Night Baseball was somewhat controversial because it was a

00:14:47 ◼   ► game everyone wanted to watch and people don't know how to

00:14:50 ◼   ► watch stuff on streaming right right are people confused by it

00:14:54 ◼   ► does it make it worse do people think hey I don't even own any

00:14:57 ◼   ► Apple products so I can't watch this right I have an Android

00:15:00 ◼   ► phone I don't I don't have I use a PC why how am I supposed to

00:15:04 ◼   ► watch Apple TV do are people confused by the fact that the

00:15:09 ◼   ► service is called Apple TV and they have a product product a

00:15:13 ◼   ► physical hardware product called Apple TV and then when

00:15:16 ◼   ► you're in the TV OS the app you use to watch the sports is

00:15:21 ◼   ► called TV it are I'm confused by it just trying to describe it

00:15:27 ◼   ► to my audience who I know knows this very well no it's been bad

00:15:31 ◼   ► naming for a couple years and they have not made it better but

00:15:34 ◼   ► I well I I'll tell you what I think it's interesting that

00:15:37 ◼   ► obviously this finally happened that there was a game where

00:15:39 ◼   ► people wanted to check it out and I think it's good for for

00:15:42 ◼   ► the service because it somebody explained it to like their

00:15:46 ◼   ► parents they said oh you want to watch this game here's how you

00:15:48 ◼   ► do it and right now they know how to do it and that's I think

00:15:50 ◼   ► that's exactly what Apple wanted was was more of these marquee

00:15:53 ◼   ► games where people would tune in just for that and learn how to

00:15:57 ◼   ► use the service right people people will complain about

00:16:00 ◼   ► anything on Twitter and the internet as a whole so I tried

00:16:03 ◼   ► not to ever take it too personally or get too annoyed by

00:16:07 ◼   ► it but there I what I saw last week leading up to that game

00:16:12 ◼   ► especially probably in the day before when it was clear from

00:16:14 ◼   ► the night before that he hadn't already broken the record was

00:16:17 ◼   ► there were people saying that what Apple should do is let let

00:16:21 ◼   ► the the Yankees network yes that's their traditional

00:16:25 ◼   ► regional sports network let them broadcast the game too so

00:16:29 ◼   ► that people who are used to Yankees fans or who are used to

00:16:32 ◼   ► watching them and yes can catch it on yes as well. Oh no right

00:16:38 ◼   ► no I mean just obviously no can you even imagine if that

00:16:44 ◼   ► reached any Q's desk like how he would react to that yeah like

00:16:49 ◼   ► did he might still be laughing now now five days later he might

00:16:54 ◼   ► still be laughing I mean like I get the I get the request that

00:16:58 ◼   ► oh I want it to be easy whatever but watching Apple TV is

00:17:02 ◼   ► not actually difficult you need to figure something out you

00:17:05 ◼   ► need to either you can do it in a browser can't you yeah yeah

00:17:08 ◼   ► right so so you don't need any hardware you just need a

00:17:10 ◼   ► computer whatever if it were actually something where you

00:17:13 ◼   ► know oh people aren't going to be able to watch it for

00:17:15 ◼   ► whatever reason then this could make sense but no the whole

00:17:18 ◼   ► reason they made the surface and the whole reason they got

00:17:20 ◼   ► Friday Night Baseball was to get people to come watch the

00:17:22 ◼   ► games right they won't just give away the most important

00:17:25 ◼   ► one of the year it'll be nice not a nice gesture yeah and

00:17:29 ◼   ► even if it was just for the New York Yankees fans it's still

00:17:32 ◼   ► who's the most who's the most likely fan base in baseball

00:17:36 ◼   ► right and if I think I think that a big reason that Apple is

00:17:40 ◼   ► edging its way into sports Amazon is too is to increase

00:17:45 ◼   ► it's not that sports in itself itself is all that valuable

00:17:49 ◼   ► it's that it gets them to expand the user base right so

00:17:54 ◼   ► you are Netflix already has the the stranger things people

00:17:58 ◼   ► right and HBO has already got people who love Game of Thrones

00:18:03 ◼   ► Game of Thrones or whatever yeah so you get people who love

00:18:05 ◼   ► shows like certain things and and you can already get them

00:18:08 ◼   ► but how do you expand and get a new audience and maybe the

00:18:11 ◼   ► audience who just wants to watch the game of the week of

00:18:14 ◼   ► baseball is different than the sort of people who watch shows

00:18:17 ◼   ► like Ted Lasso and Severance and already have Apple TV but I

00:18:21 ◼   ► it's so funny cuz I wanted to ask you about this but we just

00:18:23 ◼   ► got. We just got a thing in the mail today. It's like a postcard

00:18:28 ◼   ► from Amazon and it was addressed to my wife to Amy and

00:18:32 ◼   ► it just says how to watch Thursday Night Football on the

00:18:35 ◼   ► one side and it says so step one open or download the Prime

00:18:41 ◼   ► Video app on your TV computer phone or streaming service sign

00:18:44 ◼   ► in with your Amazon Prime account or sign up for a 30 day

00:18:47 ◼   ► free trial in the Prime Video app select quote Thursday Night

00:18:52 ◼   ► Football step four press watch game on. It's not hard right

00:18:58 ◼   ► that makes sense and and I think people who listen to the

00:19:00 ◼   ► show know what it's like to sign up for a new streaming

00:19:02 ◼   ► service and depending on your device, whether it's an app

00:19:07 ◼   ► store thing for your phone or tablet or your Apple TV box or

00:19:12 ◼   ► it's a go to the web and just search for. I'm sure if you go

00:19:16 ◼   ► to Amazon, the Amazon is all about the the football and of

00:19:19 ◼   ► course the Lord of the Rings show they have on but it is it

00:19:24 ◼   ► it is different than just saying go to turn on the TV to

00:19:29 ◼   ► and go to channel 850. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean there's a

00:19:34 ◼   ► couple extra steps but now wait I wanna back up. This was

00:19:37 ◼   ► addressed to Amy. I assume you your family has a Prime

00:19:40 ◼   ► account. Yes, we do and do you know is it under her name? I

00:19:43 ◼   ► actually don't know. I'm not quite sure if they sent this to

00:19:46 ◼   ► her because she is her account or but they say sign in with

00:19:50 ◼   ► your Amazon Prime account or sign up for a 30-day free trial.

00:19:53 ◼   ► Yeah, but that could just be a catch-all. Right. I'm not quite

00:19:55 ◼   ► sure if she got it because she's the I don't even know I've

00:20:00 ◼   ► had an Amazon account for so long and we've had Prime for so

00:20:02 ◼   ► long that it's right. It's prehistoric in my brain who

00:20:06 ◼   ► signed up for it first or who's well just cuz it's strange for

00:20:09 ◼   ► that to be sent to her instead of you. Well, maybe I'll get

00:20:12 ◼   ► mine tomorrow. Knowing the two of you. She doesn't care about

00:20:15 ◼   ► football and you at least somewhat do. Right. And then the

00:20:17 ◼   ► flip side of the card is the schedule where they just tell

00:20:20 ◼   ► you all the upcoming games that are on Thursday Night Football.

00:20:23 ◼   ► The other thing Ben and I talked about and I do think it's

00:20:25 ◼   ► an interesting point but I think it's more about the Sunday

00:20:28 ◼   ► football experience for me. Streaming services make flipping

00:20:33 ◼   ► way more difficult, right? Like if your habit when you're

00:20:36 ◼   ► watching baseball on regular TV is that when the commercials

00:20:40 ◼   ► come on, you flip to another game. Flip to another game or

00:20:44 ◼   ► flip to something else. Just flip to the news. Just something

00:20:47 ◼   ► so you're not watching TV but you don't maybe you either you

00:20:51 ◼   ► do or do not have a DVR where you can fall behind and then

00:20:54 ◼   ► skip them but a lot of times for sports fans, they don't wanna

00:20:57 ◼   ► be behind. They wanna be live because you don't wanna

00:21:00 ◼   ► accidentally check Twitter when you're bored and find out that

00:21:03 ◼   ► there's a home run coming up in 5 minutes that you didn't get

00:21:06 ◼   ► to yet but the flipping is instrumental to my lifetime of

00:21:11 ◼   ► watching quote unquote regular TV, cable TV. When I was a real

00:21:14 ◼   ► little kid before, I was just gonna say you're young enough,

00:21:17 ◼   ► I'm sorry, you're old enough that you didn't have a remote

00:21:19 ◼   ► early on, right? Right. We did not have a remote control when

00:21:22 ◼   ► I was a little kid and we only had. You were the remote

00:21:25 ◼   ► control. Right and and I don't remember how old I was when we

00:21:29 ◼   ► got cable but I'm gonna say I was around seven or eight. So,

00:21:32 ◼   ► like around 1980, 1981 but I certainly watched TV in the

00:21:37 ◼   ► 70s as a wee little kid and you literally had a dial. I know

00:21:42 ◼   ► this really makes me sound ancient but well, no, there

00:21:45 ◼   ► were two dials on the TV and the one didn't do anything and

00:21:49 ◼   ► I've never, I still don't understand it. It's like these

00:21:51 ◼   ► are the UHF channels. Yeah, I was gonna say, wasn't that for

00:21:53 ◼   ► UHF? Yeah, but there was never anything on them. Alright. We

00:21:56 ◼   ► definitely were getting them over the air with an antenna

00:21:59 ◼   ► that was on the roof of our house. It was fine. You know,

00:22:01 ◼   ► I'm sure that to my eyes now, if I looked at the way Sesame

00:22:05 ◼   ► Street looked over the air, I'd be like, I can't believe how

00:22:07 ◼   ► staticky this is. This is ridiculous. Oh, god, yeah. But you literally would just get

00:22:11 ◼   ► up and turn a dial to to change it but I remember when we

00:22:15 ◼   ► got cable, you know, what a game changer it was and you

00:22:17 ◼   ► needed, I mean, it was like the cable box came with its own

00:22:19 ◼   ► remote. Right, cuz it had at that point, twenty, thirty, forty

00:22:23 ◼   ► channels. Right and the TVs didn't get cable without the

00:22:27 ◼   ► cable box. All of the, it's, it took a while for the TV sets

00:22:31 ◼   ► to get there. It wasn't like you needed a box just to get

00:22:33 ◼   ► like the premium channels like HBO. You needed a cable box for

00:22:37 ◼   ► everything cuz your TV just didn't didn't crock cable. So,

00:22:41 ◼   ► the cable company would give you your own remote and I

00:22:45 ◼   ► remember it was pretty decent remote because it didn't have

00:22:47 ◼   ► to do everything else. It didn't have to control the TV.

00:22:50 ◼   ► So, it's just sort of like a number pad and an enter button

00:22:53 ◼   ► and just to switch channels. Right and you could, I think

00:22:55 ◼   ► it's always been sort of the UI for lack of a better

00:22:59 ◼   ► description. The user interface for flipping between the two

00:23:02 ◼   ► most recent channels on most remotes is just press enter

00:23:05 ◼   ► without entering the number first and it'll go back. So,

00:23:08 ◼   ► you could put two games on like on a Sunday afternoon to watch

00:23:12 ◼   ► football and you could have the AFC game on one channel and

00:23:15 ◼   ► the NFC game on the other and if you didn't particularly care

00:23:18 ◼   ► about one game cuz it's not your favorite team and you're

00:23:20 ◼   ► just sort of having a lazy Sunday afternoon watching

00:23:23 ◼   ► football. What I would do is just watch till we got to a

00:23:27 ◼   ► commercial. Flip to the other one and then it wasn't in a

00:23:30 ◼   ► commercial. Hope it wasn't in a commercial and watch that one

00:23:32 ◼   ► until it got to a commercial and then if one of the games was a

00:23:36 ◼   ► blowout and one was exciting and close, maybe stick with that

00:23:39 ◼   ► one. Actually watch a commercial. See what happens.

00:23:41 ◼   ► Sure. But so, so you're now you're thinking about streaming

00:23:44 ◼   ► services where you're much more locked in. Cuz you're you lose

00:23:49 ◼   ► your place, right? I mean, you can't just switch between like

00:23:52 ◼   ► if Apple, let's just say in the future if Apple has a baseball

00:23:55 ◼   ► game at the same time that Amazon has a baseball game, how

00:23:58 ◼   ► do you flip between the two? No, you can't cuz the I mean,

00:24:02 ◼   ► even if you can load them both up in the apps, I think it'll

00:24:05 ◼   ► pause or right. Yeah. I don't. Yeah. I think that's I well to

00:24:09 ◼   ► me that sounds like a feature for to the developers of these

00:24:13 ◼   ► apps because it means you're not gonna flip away from them.

00:24:16 ◼   ► Right. But it's it it's irritating and. Contrary to the

00:24:22 ◼   ► mindset of the sports fan in my opinion, right? Yeah, I'll give

00:24:26 ◼   ► you that and sports sports is something you don't watch 100%

00:24:31 ◼   ► at least I don't focused on especially a baseball game like

00:24:34 ◼   ► I'll have in the background while I'm making dinner or

00:24:35 ◼   ► something right. So yeah, flipping away from a game

00:24:38 ◼   ► during a commercial and if you miss the first the next 30

00:24:41 ◼   ► seconds of the game, whatever it's no big deal. But yeah with

00:24:43 ◼   ► the streaming services just not really an option. And I just

00:24:47 ◼   ► think that there's there's a weird consumer psychology play

00:24:53 ◼   ► here where if you're Apple or you're Amazon or anybody else

00:24:59 ◼   ► who wants to get into sports like if Netflix decides to get

00:25:02 ◼   ► into sports, but it seems so far like it's Amazon and Apple

00:25:05 ◼   ► in the US who are sort of focusing the streaming on

00:25:08 ◼   ► sports. Yeah. You don't wanna make people angry and sports

00:25:12 ◼   ► fans will get angry about anything like it like we talked

00:25:15 ◼   ► about people will get angry about what's home run records

00:25:17 ◼   ► the real home run record but like when the baseball playoffs

00:25:22 ◼   ► switch TNT now has the American League Divisional series and it

00:25:27 ◼   ► used to be on ESPN and so you just plug a different number or

00:25:32 ◼   ► you go to your guide on your TV. They usually put the

00:25:35 ◼   ► channels that carry sports somewhat close to each other.

00:25:37 ◼   ► Find the one that says MLB postseason and hit the button

00:25:41 ◼   ► on that and now you're watching it and your biggest complaint

00:25:44 ◼   ► might be that you don't like the announcers right of course,

00:25:47 ◼   ► but it wasn't when you know that there's a playoff game on

00:25:51 ◼   ► you wanna watch it. You just you're gonna find it and you

00:25:54 ◼   ► just go up and down the guide and oh there it is. It's on

00:25:57 ◼   ► it's on TBS this week. So boom I'm watching it. Whereas this

00:26:02 ◼   ► this is even with these easy steps go here sign in or if you

00:26:08 ◼   ► don't have an account sign up for a 30 day free trial and

00:26:11 ◼   ► then find the thing and hit watch. I don't know. I feel like

00:26:16 ◼   ► there's an alienation effect of this. Well, I mean what do you

00:26:20 ◼   ► think they should do differently? I don't think

00:26:22 ◼   ► there's anything they can do differently. Yeah. That's it. I

00:26:24 ◼   ► think they're right to get into sports. I think it's one of

00:26:27 ◼   ► those disruptive ideas. This transition from linear cable to

00:26:33 ◼   ► streaming streaming service, but I also the other thing I think

00:26:35 ◼   ► that they really need to do here. Here's the one thing I

00:26:38 ◼   ► think they could do technically and I haven't watched the

00:26:41 ◼   ► Amazon's Thursday Night Football yet this season. I think

00:26:44 ◼   ► there's only been one or two games and I've been busy on

00:26:47 ◼   ► Thursday nights, but I do think that they should or optimize

00:26:51 ◼   ► their technical stack to make it as much like cable as possible

00:26:55 ◼   ► so that there's the least amount of lag and that if you do

00:27:00 ◼   ► switch to another app or switch your input or something like

00:27:03 ◼   ► that on your TV temporarily and come back to keep it going in

00:27:07 ◼   ► the background if they can. I was gonna say I'm not even sure

00:27:10 ◼   ► if they can. I won't say that they can't. Right. It very well

00:27:13 ◼   ► could be the device. Right. Has the control over that as

00:27:16 ◼   ► opposed to the app. Right. Like TV, like even if you're

00:27:18 ◼   ► watching on Apple TV, but if it's the Amazon app, it has to

00:27:21 ◼   ► follow by the rules of the TV OS platform. Right. And they

00:27:26 ◼   ► don't just keep streaming and when you're watching most stuff

00:27:30 ◼   ► in a streaming app like Game of Thrones or Stranger Things on

00:27:34 ◼   ► Netflix or whatever else and you switch away, you don't want

00:27:38 ◼   ► it to keep playing. Right. You want it to pause. Right. You

00:27:41 ◼   ► want it to pause automatically. Whereas live sports are

00:27:45 ◼   ► different. I feel like it's an unsolved problem. Computers can

00:27:49 ◼   ► obviously do this. Right. This is not something that can't be

00:27:54 ◼   ► solved, but it's a very different... It's fascinating to

00:28:00 ◼   ► me how different it is. Whereas like I'll go back to TBS and

00:28:05 ◼   ► sometimes they show old movies and sometimes they show live

00:28:08 ◼   ► sports, but the guy running the console at TBS headquarters just

00:28:15 ◼   ► is making sure that the right thing is being broadcast over

00:28:18 ◼   ► the cable wire at the right time and that's it. And it

00:28:20 ◼   ► doesn't matter to him whether it's live sports or a replay of

00:28:24 ◼   ► Raiders of the Lost Ark or something like that. Whereas for

00:28:28 ◼   ► the streaming services, I think they kind of need two different

00:28:31 ◼   ► implementations. And the other place I'm going with this is

00:28:34 ◼   ► this rumor that Apple might be interested in getting the NFL

00:28:37 ◼   ► Sunday ticket. Right. Which is all about switching. The whole

00:28:41 ◼   ► point, nobody buys Sunday ticket if they're not watching

00:28:43 ◼   ► multiple games at the same time either on multiple TVs or

00:28:47 ◼   ► like dividing one big TV up into four squares and having

00:28:50 ◼   ► four games at once. And I never really thought about it. I

00:28:53 ◼   ► don't have... You have to have DirecTV to get it at this point.

00:28:57 ◼   ► I've never had that. But apparently they've made it very,

00:29:00 ◼   ► very easy to... Well, but for something like that, they can

00:29:04 ◼   ► do a split screen kind of thing within the app and let you...

00:29:08 ◼   ► Does the MLB app right now let you do two games at once?

00:29:13 ◼   ► I don't know. I think it does.

00:29:14 ◼   ► Yeah. So I'd have to look at this again because I haven't

00:29:18 ◼   ► paid that much attention to sports at all this year because

00:29:21 ◼   ► it's been terrible here in Boston. But the split screen

00:29:24 ◼   ► stuff is really the way to do this is like, especially if

00:29:27 ◼   ► they have Sunday ticket and you say, "Okay, in slot one play

00:29:30 ◼   ► the NFC game and in slot two play the AFC game, whatever."

00:29:33 ◼   ► All within the app and then you're just flipping between

00:29:36 ◼   ► them. The app is controlling it. I guess at that point, you

00:29:39 ◼   ► know, you couldn't do that in a browser as easily. But there's

00:29:42 ◼   ► at least ways to solve it for one thing like that for within

00:29:47 ◼   ► just within the app. Because again, for several years,

00:29:49 ◼   ► they've done March Madness. Like CBS, the CBS app has had

00:29:53 ◼   ► some sort of split screen where you could be watching multiple

00:29:55 ◼   ► NCAA basketball games at once. That's like the perfect example

00:29:59 ◼   ► of when you want to switch because you don't care about any

00:30:01 ◼   ► of these teams.

00:30:01 ◼   ► Yeah, just show me one where it's a one point lead.

00:30:04 ◼   ► Where it's close or like where my seed is going to win,

00:30:06 ◼   ► whatever. And that I think has been the solution is just

00:30:09 ◼   ► split screen.

00:30:10 ◼   ► Yeah, and I would say that I'm glad you mentioned it because

00:30:14 ◼   ► I've been a typical March Madness fan who doesn't really

00:30:17 ◼   ► watch that much. I used to watch tons of college basketball

00:30:19 ◼   ► when I was a young man with seemingly infinite time on my

00:30:24 ◼   ► hands. But yeah, I've used that app for years and I have to

00:30:27 ◼   ► say it is actually a very good app.

00:30:29 ◼   ► Right. That's what I remember from using it was that it worked

00:30:31 ◼   ► the way you're describing of being able to flip between

00:30:33 ◼   ► things and focus on the one that you want.

00:30:35 ◼   ► The last thing I'll touch on is with the Apple TV Plus. With

00:30:39 ◼   ► Amazon Prime, I think the deal is a little bit more clear.

00:30:42 ◼   ► I wonder how much of a problem it is for Apple that the, do I

00:30:49 ◼   ► have to pay for this question is so ambiguous for Apple TV?

00:30:54 ◼   ► I was going to ask you for the, has the baseball been free

00:30:57 ◼   ► all year?

00:30:57 ◼   ► I believe it has been free all year.

00:30:59 ◼   ► I thought so. It was initially they said free through June or

00:31:02 ◼   ► July, whatever. And then it was a question of whether they

00:31:04 ◼   ► were going to start charging or next year they'll start

00:31:06 ◼   ► charging, whatever. But I think that's correct that these

00:31:09 ◼   ► games are all free. So anyone who was saying like, oh, I want

00:31:12 ◼   ► to watch this game and they should give it back to yes. All

00:31:14 ◼   ► they had to do was go to, I don't even know, but appletv.com

00:31:18 ◼   ► and they don't even need to pay for it.

00:31:20 ◼   ► Right. I believe you probably can go to appletv.com. I think

00:31:24 ◼   ► you can also go to tv.apple.com. But I do, but I think people

00:31:28 ◼   ► have it in their head. Yeah. If you go to appletv.com, it

00:31:33 ◼   ► redirects you somewhere with all of them. They're trying to

00:31:36 ◼   ► sell you stuff. All of Apple's various things called Apple TV,

00:31:40 ◼   ► Apple TV, 4k, Apple TV, HD, Apple TV app, Apple TV plus,

00:31:47 ◼   ► and then I guess tv.apple.com gets you to Apple TV plus,

00:31:51 ◼   ► which is their streaming service. Right. I just wonder

00:31:54 ◼   ► though, how much of it is in the back of people's heads where

00:31:56 ◼   ► this is where they're going to get me. Right. And people are

00:31:59 ◼   ► rightfully, I'd like to come back with this at the end of the

00:32:03 ◼   ► show, talking about rogue amoeba and subscriptions.

00:32:05 ◼   ► Subscription fatigue is a real thing, right? Like, it is a huge

00:32:10 ◼   ► thing. It's been a shift for content that you consume. It has

00:32:14 ◼   ► been a shift in the software industry. So for people who

00:32:17 ◼   ► actually pay for their professional software tools,

00:32:19 ◼   ► it's at some level, it'd be very surprising to find anybody

00:32:23 ◼   ► who's considered themselves a computer professional who

00:32:26 ◼   ► doesn't subscribe to some kind of some service service or app

00:32:30 ◼   ► or something like that. And it people realize, and they're

00:32:37 ◼   ► right. I think that this is one of those cases where the person

00:32:40 ◼   ► on the streets attitude is right, where you kind of do want

00:32:43 ◼   ► to, hey, every couple months, you should like just take a

00:32:46 ◼   ► look at your credit card bill and look at every single

00:32:49 ◼   ► monthly subscription that's on there. And maybe circle a couple

00:32:53 ◼   ► of them that that you haven't watched in a while. Like I'm

00:32:56 ◼   ► old. Has anybody watched anything on Hulu in months? I

00:32:58 ◼   ► don't know. It's easier to cancel than cable TV was back in

00:33:03 ◼   ► the day where you don't used to have to drive down to a

00:33:05 ◼   ► sketchy part of town and take your equipment in and where

00:33:08 ◼   ► they were at least at least around here, they had

00:33:10 ◼   ► bulletproof glass, which always amused me now. Now Xfinity has

00:33:15 ◼   ► their like cell phone looking stores. But back in the early

00:33:18 ◼   ► 2000s, they had bulletproof glass. And I always joked that

00:33:21 ◼   ► even the DMV doesn't have bulletproof glass, which is how

00:33:24 ◼   ► much we hated our cable companies. Because there were

00:33:26 ◼   ► times too where I had to move like when I moved up to

00:33:29 ◼   ► Massachusetts and for two years back 20 years ago, I had to get

00:33:33 ◼   ► new cable service. I wasn't just moving across town in

00:33:36 ◼   ► Philadelphia and I could take my cable box. I had to go down

00:33:38 ◼   ► there and so you had to return one and then you had to go pick

00:33:41 ◼   ► up another one right at another place, which was also full of

00:33:45 ◼   ► bulletproof glass. And one of those, what do you even call it

00:33:48 ◼   ► like a lazy Susan? So where they can rotate that you can

00:33:51 ◼   ► put down your box and then they can rotate it under the glass.

00:33:54 ◼   ► Right. But that it was still a protective layer of bulletproof

00:33:56 ◼   ► glass between them at all times.

00:33:59 ◼   ► Basically is like a lazy side. Like you see that at really bad

00:34:01 ◼   ► convenience stores and at the cable company.

00:34:03 ◼   ► But you know, and they talk about it in the streaming world

00:34:08 ◼   ► churn, right? That people, they'll watch their face and

00:34:11 ◼   ► that maybe this has come back to bite Netflix now that the

00:34:15 ◼   ► overall world is way more competitive and that Netflix is

00:34:19 ◼   ► hey, we don't suffer churn was hubris fueled by the era where

00:34:25 ◼   ► Netflix was so dominant.

00:34:27 ◼   ► And then, yeah, there weren't so many other options.

00:34:30 ◼   ► Right. And now that there's Disney Plus and HBO as a very

00:34:33 ◼   ► good service and people are like, you know what? I'm done

00:34:36 ◼   ► with Stranger Things and they thank you Netflix for releasing

00:34:39 ◼   ► it all at the same time.

00:34:40 ◼   ► All at once. Yeah.

00:34:41 ◼   ► So I watched the whole season in 10 days and now I'll just

00:34:45 ◼   ► turn off my Netflix subscription until you come out with

00:34:47 ◼   ► something else I want to watch.

00:34:49 ◼   ► It's, it's just a different mindset to me. Anyway, I thought

00:34:53 ◼   ► it was interesting. I thought the play on sports gave us an

00:34:55 ◼   ► excuse to nerd out on sports.

00:34:57 ◼   ► Sure, absolutely.

00:34:58 ◼   ► Rogers Hornsby was 424 in 1924.

00:35:02 ◼   ► Okay, so you had the you had the you had the it matched the

00:35:05 ◼   ► year, but it was it was four years later than you thought.

00:35:07 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:35:08 ◼   ► He was not the MVP that year.

00:35:10 ◼   ► No, who was not sure who was and let's see if I can Dazie

00:35:13 ◼   ► Vance, who I don't never heard of.

00:35:15 ◼   ► Never, nor, nor have I, but you know, I was a pitcher 262

00:35:19 ◼   ► strikeouts. Okay.

00:35:20 ◼   ► You have to admit great baseball name.

00:35:22 ◼   ► It's true. It's true.

00:35:24 ◼   ► All right, let me speak in a commercials and not skipping.

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00:37:41 ◼   ► Did you get the iPhone 14?

00:37:44 ◼   ► I've got it. I got the Pro right in front of me.

00:37:47 ◼   ► Which color did you get?

00:37:48 ◼   ► It was, what is it? The, who's it? The deep purple.

00:37:51 ◼   ► Deep purple.

00:37:52 ◼   ► But it's in a case. So I got myself a nice, I usually get

00:37:56 ◼   ► like a gray or a black case and I got myself a nice blue case.

00:37:59 ◼   ► And that's so to me, this phone is blue. Last year's phone

00:38:01 ◼   ► was blue in a black case. So I never saw the blues.

00:38:04 ◼   ► It occurs to me for the first time. I didn't put it in my

00:38:07 ◼   ► review, but it occurred to me and it's very obvious. And I

00:38:10 ◼   ► guess I'd thought of it, but I just had never thought about

00:38:13 ◼   ► the obviousness of it, that what Apple does with these, with

00:38:18 ◼   ► the iPhones every year is they come out with limited edition

00:38:21 ◼   ► colors. They don't call them limited edition colors, but if

00:38:25 ◼   ► tradition serves, it doesn't matter how popular deep purple

00:38:29 ◼   ► is. They didn't have deep purple.

00:38:30 ◼   ► It won't be there next year.

00:38:31 ◼   ► It won't be there next year. It wasn't there last year. And

00:38:33 ◼   ► no matter how much you liked the, I forget what they called

00:38:36 ◼   ► the blue one last year.

00:38:38 ◼   ► Well, was it Pacific blue?

00:38:39 ◼   ► Yeah, something like that. And then there was a green one a

00:38:42 ◼   ► couple of years ago that was sort of like a Boba Fett

00:38:45 ◼   ► colored green sort of. They're all, as I joked in my review

00:38:49 ◼   ► and as my wife Amy put in her entire iPhone review, which she

00:38:52 ◼   ► tweeted out, they're all just different colors of gray.

00:38:56 ◼   ► That's it. That's the review.

00:38:57 ◼   ► Sierra blue. Sierra blue.

00:39:00 ◼   ► Sierra blue.

00:39:01 ◼   ► But it is interesting. I never really thought about them as

00:39:04 ◼   ► they don't call them limited edition colors, but they clearly

00:39:07 ◼   ► are. And what I guess clarified it for me is I sort of really

00:39:12 ◼   ► gave it an extra thought this year in my review about the

00:39:16 ◼   ► fact that the iPhone 14 Pro models don't stick around for

00:39:22 ◼   ► additional years. So it's not just that they're not going to

00:39:24 ◼   ► come out with an iPhone 15 in deep purple next year.

00:39:29 ◼   ► The you won't be able to even buy this one, right?

00:39:32 ◼   ► The 14 Pros go away and it's it somehow it snuck up on me over

00:39:39 ◼   ► the years because in the early years of the iPhone, that was

00:39:42 ◼   ► what they did is they would keep the 3G when the 3GS came out

00:39:47 ◼   ► and sell it at a lower rate and then keep the 3GS at a lower

00:39:51 ◼   ► price when the iPhone 4 come out, so on and so forth with one

00:39:55 ◼   ► new iPhone per year and the older ones sticking around. And

00:39:59 ◼   ► they still do that with the non pro ones, right? You could

00:40:02 ◼   ► still buy. I think they're still selling the iPhone 11 or

00:40:05 ◼   ► maybe they've gone up to 12, but I think you can go. But even

00:40:08 ◼   ► though Apple might not list the iPhone 11, you can go to like

00:40:11 ◼   ► Verizon or AT&T and still buy.

00:40:14 ◼   ► Still get one.

00:40:14 ◼   ► Yeah, but you can't buy the iPhone 13 Pro anymore. Now there

00:40:19 ◼   ► might be stock in the in the channel or something like that,

00:40:21 ◼   ► but at this point, not for long, not for long.

00:40:24 ◼   ► They so that's it's interesting to me from at a consumer level

00:40:29 ◼   ► that no matter how popular a color is, that's it. This is

00:40:32 ◼   ► your one chance and only to get it.

00:40:34 ◼   ► Well, I guess the I guess the question is, is that true? I

00:40:37 ◼   ► mean, yes, it's been true with this green with the blue and

00:40:39 ◼   ► probably with the purple. But like if they had one that

00:40:42 ◼   ► suddenly that was the one that sold so much more. Do you

00:40:44 ◼   ► think I mean, I don't think that they would be reluctant to

00:40:48 ◼   ► keep the color around if they discovered a color that that

00:40:51 ◼   ► people loved. I think they'd probably keep it around.

00:40:53 ◼   ► Yeah, and that's probably the sort of thing that they could

00:40:56 ◼   ► do on relatively short notice, right? Like most I like to,

00:41:03 ◼   ► and I've heard this from so many people at Apple, but most

00:41:06 ◼   ► of the hardware decisions in like a new iPhone, like

00:41:09 ◼   ► were made a year or two, two or two years ago, at least that

00:41:12 ◼   ► much, if not more, right?

00:41:13 ◼   ► No, no, but john, I read these rumors sites, and I hear that

00:41:16 ◼   ► Apple at the last second decided to drop the fourth camera

00:41:20 ◼   ► on the new iPhone.

00:41:22 ◼   ► Yeah, that doesn't happen. But I would imagine that that ad

00:41:25 ◼   ► saying we should go back, we should keep Deep Purple for a

00:41:28 ◼   ► second year is something that they could decide.

00:41:30 ◼   ► They could actually do.

00:41:31 ◼   ► Right. And they could probably if it's if it is going to be

00:41:34 ◼   ► that popular, they probably know it already from the initial

00:41:38 ◼   ► sales, they could already get the gears turning to coat the

00:41:42 ◼   ► steel bands with the Deep Purple and produce more of the

00:41:45 ◼   ► Deep Purple back glass.

00:41:48 ◼   ► Well, wait, so there's an interesting question briefly,

00:41:50 ◼   ► let's say the hardware decisions for the iPhone 16 Pro are

00:41:54 ◼   ► already made or about to be made. But when does next year's

00:41:57 ◼   ► phone, the 15 Pro, when does production on that actually

00:42:00 ◼   ► start? That's like a month or two, right?

00:42:02 ◼   ► Yeah, because because high level production seems like

00:42:06 ◼   ► something that really only gears up right at the very end.

00:42:09 ◼   ► Yes. And I would think that the colors would be much closer

00:42:13 ◼   ► to that than to putting another camera or whatever.

00:42:15 ◼   ► Yeah, so I don't know, it might be too late. It really might

00:42:18 ◼   ► even the color.

00:42:18 ◼   ► No, no, I'm saying I think they've got enough time.

00:42:20 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm saying with you that that in in June of next year,

00:42:23 ◼   ► that's when they need to say these are the colors.

00:42:25 ◼   ► Yeah, probably, I would bet because and I'm sure they do

00:42:28 ◼   ► testing with the actual colors to get them to come out right.

00:42:32 ◼   ► And then it it must be so fast. It's like one of the great

00:42:36 ◼   ► secrets of the whole Apple world that they just deliberately

00:42:39 ◼   ► don't ever shine a light on is how many engineers at Apple

00:42:45 ◼   ► and designers are spending so much time so long in advance

00:42:49 ◼   ► just to make sure that the deep purple steel looks the right

00:42:53 ◼   ► color issue, right? And then there's somebody else. I don't

00:42:56 ◼   ► know, it could be it might be this one person does all the

00:42:58 ◼   ► colors. I don't know. But maybe there's somebody else who's in

00:43:01 ◼   ► charge of making sure space black is as black as we think

00:43:05 ◼   ► it's going to be, along with all of the other engineering

00:43:08 ◼   ► issues of, okay, this seems right, these things are passing

00:43:11 ◼   ► their quality tests. And then somebody over there is like,

00:43:15 ◼   ► and they're like, okay, so we're gonna say go and you're

00:43:18 ◼   ► gonna start making like 3 million of these a week. And

00:43:21 ◼   ► they're like, yeah, yes. Yes, the purple will work. Well, and

00:43:25 ◼   ► as you said, they've changed every year. So that I mean,

00:43:28 ◼   ► maybe the process is not as complicated as we think, or

00:43:31 ◼   ► maybe changing the color is not that complicated. But yeah,

00:43:34 ◼   ► they they have not stuck with one. So they're obviously doing

00:43:37 ◼   ► well in terms of well, because because what what phone was it

00:43:41 ◼   ► that the white took forever and then wasn't very good? And was

00:43:44 ◼   ► that the five or what? No, I forget or, or was it the four?

00:43:50 ◼   ► I think might have been the iPhone for the white iPhone four

00:43:53 ◼   ► was was where they did they announce it on day one, but yeah,

00:43:56 ◼   ► coming next year, and then next year took forever.

00:43:59 ◼   ► Yeah, I think what happened in the iPhone

00:44:03 ◼   ► for was the last one that was introduced in June, and was the

00:44:10 ◼   ► antenna gate phone. And they announced it probably at WWDC.

00:44:14 ◼   ► And Steve Jobs did the introduction was one of the last

00:44:18 ◼   ► phones might have been the last phone he introduced. Yeah, it

00:44:21 ◼   ► was the four and it was 2011. So yeah, yeah. And it was a

00:44:26 ◼   ► weird, it was the most unusual cycle in all of iPhone history,

00:44:30 ◼   ► because it was the one where they decided we're going to

00:44:33 ◼   ► shift it to the fall. But they also came off off cycle with the

00:44:37 ◼   ► Verizon, Verizon iPhone, right, which was like February of the

00:44:41 ◼   ► next year. And then I think the white iPhone fours started

00:44:45 ◼   ► actually shipping in like May. You know, I'm sorry, I just I

00:44:49 ◼   ► just pulled this up. So June was when they introduced the four,

00:44:52 ◼   ► they said we're gonna have black and white. And the white

00:44:55 ◼   ► just did not show up until April of 2011. The end of April.

00:45:00 ◼   ► Right, which shows like that, like something obviously got

00:45:03 ◼   ► screwed up internally for that to happen. Yeah. And I remember

00:45:07 ◼   ► being, I think at the antenna gate event, which would have

00:45:13 ◼   ► been earlier than this. Oh, way earlier. Yeah, much earlier.

00:45:16 ◼   ► But it was still at a time where Apple was sort of mum on the

00:45:19 ◼   ► fact that white hadn't shipped. And I believe it was a source of

00:45:23 ◼   ► marital stress in my household. Because because we've always

00:45:28 ◼   ► been everybody gets a new iPhone every year, we'll trade the old

00:45:32 ◼   ► one in or I keep them on a shelf and Amy trades them in. But she

00:45:35 ◼   ► wanted to get the white one. So she ordered the white one, but

00:45:38 ◼   ► so she didn't didn't come. I mean, I did. It wasn't like they

00:45:41 ◼   ► held her money. It was like, she was planning on it because I

00:45:45 ◼   ► don't even think you can order it. I think it was just it just

00:45:47 ◼   ► didn't exist. Yeah, it just didn't exist. But I remember

00:45:50 ◼   ► when I went out to Cupertino to to the old town hall, band box

00:45:55 ◼   ► auditorium. I mean, it's being generous calling it an ad

00:45:58 ◼   ► auditorium, but and being on campus and seeing Apple

00:46:02 ◼   ► employees walking around with white iPhone. They had the white

00:46:05 ◼   ► ones. Yeah, it was like, whoa, what the hell? I was like, Oh,

00:46:08 ◼   ► we're at Apple. So yes, there are people there were people at

00:46:12 ◼   ► Apple who had them, but they were not on sale. I don't think

00:46:15 ◼   ► we ever got a straight answer, of course, because Apple doesn't

00:46:19 ◼   ► want to explain what was clearly an embarrassing, technical

00:46:24 ◼   ► issue with the production of the way I forget what it was, or

00:46:27 ◼   ► what the rumors were if it was like that in production, it was

00:46:31 ◼   ► yellowing or if it was somehow the white back cracked easier or

00:46:37 ◼   ► something because that was when the first one that had a glass

00:46:39 ◼   ► back. So it wasn't plastic. If it had been plastic, I'm sure it

00:46:42 ◼   ► would have been no issue. But something about making the

00:46:44 ◼   ► white plastic or the white glass was a hold up. Very strange.

00:46:50 ◼   ► Well, the other thing I wanted to say, though, and I do find

00:46:52 ◼   ► all this talk about color. It's obviously the color of the

00:46:55 ◼   ► iPhones is always featured in the ads, the billboards. I think

00:46:59 ◼   ► they've made commercials to mention the color of the year,

00:47:02 ◼   ► like Deep Purple this year. And what do 98% of people do as soon

00:47:06 ◼   ► as they get their iPhone? Put it in a case. Do you think I'm

00:47:10 ◼   ► right? What percentage of iPhone users do you believe?

00:47:13 ◼   ► Yeah, we've talked about this. I don't know a number, but

00:47:17 ◼   ► certainly more than 75%. And I would not be surprised if it's

00:47:21 ◼   ► over 90%, 95%, close to 98%. It's the vast, vast majority.

00:47:26 ◼   ► And my sort of trivia question for people or thinking question

00:47:30 ◼   ► for people is, can you think of another product that you buy

00:47:33 ◼   ► and then immediately sort of transform? Like, I mean, it

00:47:37 ◼   ► speaks to the, as durable as modern smartphones are, it

00:47:41 ◼   ► speaks to the lack of durability. Like, Apple could

00:47:43 ◼   ► design a phone that did not require a case. Like most

00:47:47 ◼   ► people don't put a case on their Apple Watch and their Apple

00:47:49 ◼   ► Watch Ultra, which is designed to take hammer blows. But the

00:47:53 ◼   ► phone is still left fragile enough that everyone puts a case

00:47:57 ◼   ► on it. And I can't think of another product like that, then

00:48:01 ◼   ► besides smartphones, not just the iPhone. I think it's most

00:48:03 ◼   ► smartphones. And I think at this point, it's too ingrained.

00:48:07 ◼   ► I think that they really could. Like, I don't even know that I

00:48:09 ◼   ► really need this case as much. Yeah. And over the summer, they

00:48:14 ◼   ► had an ad campaign. Actually, I think it was for the Watch. But

00:48:17 ◼   ► it was curious because there were rumors that what we now

00:48:20 ◼   ► know is the Ultra was coming out. But Apple made a

00:48:22 ◼   ► commercial over the summer for the Series 7 regular watches,

00:48:25 ◼   ► showing them getting hit with soccer balls and other action

00:48:29 ◼   ► type sports and swimming and just sort of emphasized like,

00:48:33 ◼   ► hey, your Apple Watch, you can actually wear it. It's tough.

00:48:36 ◼   ► It can handle this. Yeah. I see a fair number of people,

00:48:39 ◼   ► though, with, I don't know if you'd call it some kind of

00:48:42 ◼   ► wrapper on their Apple Watch. Of course, there definitely are

00:48:45 ◼   ► bumpers and there are cases for them. But it's not, I don't know

00:48:49 ◼   ► what percentage, but it's way, way, way lower than phones.

00:48:52 ◼   ► If it's double digits, I'd be surprised. I think I almost

00:48:56 ◼   ► exclusively see naked Apple Watches, and I almost

00:48:58 ◼   ► exclusively see cased phones. Right. And you do see people,

00:49:02 ◼   ► like there are cases for iPads, but I typically only see them

00:49:06 ◼   ► or notice them for children, for the obvious reason. Like an

00:49:10 ◼   ► actual like hard case. Right. Like a hard case. And otherwise

00:49:14 ◼   ► with iPads, people just buy the magnetic covers and they sort

00:49:17 ◼   ► of, there's a little bit of protection there. And yeah.

00:49:20 ◼   ► Yeah. Like the cover gives you scratch protection, which is

00:49:23 ◼   ► what I care most about with an iPad. Cause I'm going to just,

00:49:25 ◼   ► at some point I'm going to put it in a bag and carry it around

00:49:28 ◼   ► with other stuff. And I don't want the glass getting

00:49:30 ◼   ► scratched, but you don't really need a case. And there are

00:49:33 ◼   ► other products like you could, I guess somebody maybe for like

00:49:37 ◼   ► the education market, there are cases for Mac books. I don't

00:49:42 ◼   ► know. But at this point, I don't know what they could do with

00:49:45 ◼   ► the phone. I think that they could just beg people. They

00:49:50 ◼   ► could make it an entire hour of the September event next year,

00:49:54 ◼   ► emphasizing how durable the new iPhone 15 Pro is. And that you

00:49:58 ◼   ► can hit it with a hockey puck and you can drop it and you

00:50:02 ◼   ► could do this and you could do that and it won't scratch. And

00:50:05 ◼   ► I think everybody would just nod their head and then they'd

00:50:07 ◼   ► buy it. And then go buy a case. I don't know. I mean, I agree

00:50:12 ◼   ► I think it's very ingrained and I didn't wait to get the phone

00:50:16 ◼   ► to get a case. I got a case and came the same day the phone

00:50:19 ◼   ► did. But if they, I don't know, if they talked up the display

00:50:23 ◼   ► being so shatterproof the same way like the Ultra Watch is, I

00:50:29 ◼   ► might at least be willing to consider it. I'd like to not

00:50:33 ◼   ► need a case or not feel like I need a case. I actually, I don't

00:50:36 ◼   ► even remember what happened. I actually, it was on the trip to

00:50:41 ◼   ► Cupertino to go to the event earlier this month. And somehow

00:50:48 ◼   ► I noticed that the back of my personal iPhone 13 Pro, the back

00:50:52 ◼   ► had now had a crack in the corner. And I didn't remember

00:50:55 ◼   ► dropping my phone. I don't know when it happened. And it's like

00:50:58 ◼   ► somehow my phone knows that I'm here to pick up a review.

00:51:02 ◼   ► Right. You're getting a brand new phone. So whatever. Right.

00:51:05 ◼   ► And it like spitefully cracked itself or something. But it was

00:51:08 ◼   ► on the back.

00:51:09 ◼   ► That was, that's what I've always thought about. Apple

00:51:11 ◼   ► executives, you famously asked if any of them used a case and

00:51:15 ◼   ► they all held up their phones naked.

00:51:17 ◼   ► Right.

00:51:17 ◼   ► And it's like, great, you've got a barrel of iPhones. You can

00:51:20 ◼   ► just grab a brand new one. The average person, and honestly,

00:51:24 ◼   ► the repairs on it are not terribly bad for like getting, I

00:51:28 ◼   ► think you've done it once or twice, right? You've three

00:51:31 ◼   ► times repaired. And it's what, like 50 bucks?

00:51:34 ◼   ► Oh, no, it varies. And apparently the back is actually

00:51:39 ◼   ► super expensive. This is putting this ties into the news that

00:51:42 ◼   ► came out last week from iFixit's teardown that the regular

00:51:45 ◼   ► non-pro iPhone 14s have an all new internal engineering design.

00:51:51 ◼   ► That's easier to repair, right?

00:51:53 ◼   ► Because there's two ways to get to it. Right. You could get to,

00:51:58 ◼   ► if you just need to fix the screen, you could take off the

00:52:00 ◼   ► screen. Whereas I believe it's the case that for the last few

00:52:03 ◼   ► years, the only way to get anywhere is to go through the

00:52:07 ◼   ► screen. And so if like your camera's broken or the back glass

00:52:10 ◼   ► is broken so bad, you want to get it fixed. It literally has

00:52:15 ◼   ► to be almost completely disassembled.

00:52:17 ◼   ► I see.

00:52:17 ◼   ► It's like a $500 or $400 repair for like the pro model. It's

00:52:21 ◼   ► shockingly close to half the price of the phone. Whereas the

00:52:25 ◼   ► display is cheaper, but the display is not that much cheaper

00:52:28 ◼   ► because they're expensive displays, especially if you get

00:52:30 ◼   ► the pro model. But that's a big change for the non-pro iPhone

00:52:34 ◼   ► 14, but the pros still have the same repairability issues.

00:52:38 ◼   ► No. So I don't buy, I don't typically use a case. I buy a

00:52:42 ◼   ► couple of cases a year. Last year I went overboard. I bought

00:52:45 ◼   ► way too many cases for somebody who doesn't use a case. And I

00:52:48 ◼   ► had it in my head that it was justified because I would either

00:52:51 ◼   ► write a big article talking about, here's my favorite as a

00:52:54 ◼   ► non-case iPhone person who occasionally uses one like on

00:52:58 ◼   ► vacation to get a better grip in a Disney world or something

00:53:04 ◼   ► like that. And it might be rainy, it might be slippery. I

00:53:07 ◼   ► want to put my phone in a case to give it more grip. Anyway,

00:53:11 ◼   ► it's just all very unusual to me that we obsess about these

00:53:13 ◼   ► iPhone callers. Apple clearly obsesses about them. They make

00:53:16 ◼   ► them the focus of their marketing campaigns and

00:53:19 ◼   ► billboards. And I think it's the reason why people, so many

00:53:24 ◼   ► people, seemingly 95% of people instantly put their brand new

00:53:28 ◼   ► iPhones into a case as soon as they get them is they want to

00:53:31 ◼   ► protect them because they like the way they look naked but

00:53:35 ◼   ► never actually enjoy it. And it's, I mentioned...

00:53:38 ◼   ► Never actually get to see it.

00:53:40 ◼   ► Until they take it out of the case, when they send it back,

00:53:43 ◼   ► when they get a trade-in in two years or three years.

00:53:45 ◼   ► And look how nice it looks then.

00:53:47 ◼   ► Right. I just find it endlessly fascinating that people care

00:53:52 ◼   ► about the color and the case and the condition of their iPhone,

00:53:55 ◼   ► but never actually enjoy it.

00:53:57 ◼   ► Well, but that's... So you asked what color I got. I got the

00:54:00 ◼   ► purple because I thought if I don't like it, I'm not going to

00:54:02 ◼   ► see it. And if I do like it, well, I'm not going to see it.

00:54:05 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:54:05 ◼   ► You do see it through the buttons though, because you like

00:54:07 ◼   ► to buy a case where the buttons... The case doesn't have

00:54:10 ◼   ► buttons. You actually poke through.

00:54:12 ◼   ► That's right. That's right.

00:54:13 ◼   ► So you do get to see your deep purple buttons.

00:54:16 ◼   ► I do see some buttons. They mostly look gray. Amy is

00:54:20 ◼   ► correct. Looking at the cameras on the back, there's like a

00:54:24 ◼   ► hint of purple. It's mostly gray. The other thing I also

00:54:28 ◼   ► find interesting, I probably say this every year too, is

00:54:31 ◼   ► that I do find it interesting too, that I see almost nobody

00:54:34 ◼   ► with Apple branded cases.

00:54:36 ◼   ► You see, I see... I see a decent amount of those.

00:54:40 ◼   ► I shouldn't say none, but you don't see that many, in my

00:54:44 ◼   ► opinion. I don't know. I don't know if it's because...

00:54:48 ◼   ► There are so many cases. The Apple ones are fairly

00:54:51 ◼   ► expensive. You can get a cheaper case.

00:54:53 ◼   ► Right.

00:54:53 ◼   ► That if you don't care that much about the aesthetics, a

00:54:56 ◼   ► $20 case is just as good as a $50 case. It might even be

00:54:59 ◼   ► better in terms of protection. So yeah, I feel like those

00:55:02 ◼   ► cases are sold... They're certainly sold at a premium, an

00:55:05 ◼   ► Apple premium. And so yeah, I'm not surprised they're not

00:55:08 ◼   ► super popular.

00:55:09 ◼   ► Well, it's just endlessly fascinating, as I said. All

00:55:14 ◼   ► right, let me take another break here and thank our next

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00:55:41 ◼   ► pronounce Postgres. I believe you can also...

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00:56:55 ◼   ► talk show. And by using that URL, Linode.com/the talk

00:56:59 ◼   ► show, you can create a free account using your Google or

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00:57:09 ◼   ► 100 bucks in credit, $100 just for going to Linode.com/the

00:57:14 ◼   ► talk show. Here's a camera. I want to talk before we leave

00:57:17 ◼   ► the iPhone 14. I wanted to talk about a camera issue. I

00:57:20 ◼   ► sort of punted, and I've been doing this for years now,

00:57:23 ◼   ► where it's I don't feel like I'm an expert photographer,

00:57:26 ◼   ► and I feel like the people who are better than me at

00:57:29 ◼   ► photography can do better, let them focus on the camera

00:57:33 ◼   ► parts of their review. Camera-focused reviews. Yeah.

00:57:36 ◼   ► And the curious thing, I mean, not curious, but the most

00:57:39 ◼   ► interesting thing about the iPhone 14 Pro camera this

00:57:41 ◼   ► year is that the quote-unquote main camera, which is for

00:57:44 ◼   ► both 1x and 2x, now has a 48 megapixel sensor. And it's

00:57:49 ◼   ► using something called pixel binning to treat each little

00:57:53 ◼   ► square, two by two square of four pixels as one pixel to

00:57:57 ◼   ► make a 12 megapixel image. And by using four real pixels as

00:58:02 ◼   ► one virtual pixel, it's a way to have an effective 12 megapixel

00:58:09 ◼   ► sensor that greatly reduces noise. And everybody seems to

00:58:14 ◼   ► agree, you take a picture with the new iPhones in low light,

00:58:18 ◼   ► and you look at for the noise, you see a lot less noise. And

00:58:21 ◼   ► that's great. But it is technically a 48 megapixel

00:58:24 ◼   ► sensor. And the only way to shoot 48 megapixel images is to

00:58:29 ◼   ► shoot the ProRAW format. And I did play with this in my

00:58:35 ◼   ► review before I wrote. I'd forget if I even mentioned it.

00:58:37 ◼   ► But when you do shoot ProRAW, you get the option. Do you want

00:58:41 ◼   ► to shoot RAW 48 megapixel or RAW 12 megapixel? And you might

00:58:47 ◼   ► think...

00:58:47 ◼   ► Okay, so it's like the video where you can do 30, 60 FPS,

00:58:51 ◼   ► that sort of thing.

00:58:52 ◼   ► Right. Or, you know, like 1080, maybe a better comparison is

00:58:55 ◼   ► 1080p to 4K, because it's just resolution.

00:58:57 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:58 ◼   ► Well, why would you want to do that if you're shooting RAW?

00:59:00 ◼   ► Don't you just want the RAW sensor data? And the answer is

00:59:04 ◼   ► that it takes about a second for each shot. If you're shooting

00:59:08 ◼   ► the 48 megapixel RAW images, you press the center, the

00:59:13 ◼   ► shutter in the iPhone camera app, and it's...

00:59:16 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know if it's a full second, but it feels like

00:59:18 ◼   ► a second before it's available to shoot the next picture. So

00:59:21 ◼   ► that's obviously suboptimal. And that's why they offer, even

00:59:26 ◼   ► if you do want to shoot RAW to do all your development and

00:59:29 ◼   ► editing with the RAW image, you could still shoot it as 12

00:59:32 ◼   ► megapixels. But anyway, what I've seen in the reviews, Jason

00:59:36 ◼   ► Snell's review, Mark Spoonhour at Tom's Guide had a good

00:59:39 ◼   ► review and a lot of side-by-side images is, boy, there is a

00:59:43 ◼   ► lot of... Your intuitive sense, and Apple's marketing, I think

00:59:46 ◼   ► rightly so, has been away from megapixel wars for years and

00:59:50 ◼   ► years, and that megapixels as a primary concern for somebody

00:59:56 ◼   ► buying a new camera or buying a phone to use as a camera is

01:00:01 ◼   ► probably not the biggest concern you have. There's so many

01:00:03 ◼   ► other factors in image quality. But all that said, still more

01:00:07 ◼   ► megapixels are better, right? At some level. And it does seem

01:00:12 ◼   ► like there's a lot of detail that the 48 megapixel sensor is

01:00:15 ◼   ► capable of in a lot of light, like so that pixel binning to

01:00:20 ◼   ► treat the 48 megapixel sensor as a 12 megapixel sensor really

01:00:24 ◼   ► makes the most sense in low light or even medium light. But

01:00:28 ◼   ► with a lot of light like outdoors, there's plenty of light

01:00:31 ◼   ► to just treat it as a 48 megapixel sensor. And the one

01:00:35 ◼   ► thing you don't have the option of is to treat it as a 48

01:00:39 ◼   ► megapixel sensor shooting JPEG. You can shoot raw and get 48

01:00:43 ◼   ► megapixel, but now you've got these big, huge 80 megabyte

01:00:47 ◼   ► files each image, and you have to develop it manually like

01:00:51 ◼   ► whatever software you use to edit one that it uses to edit

01:00:55 ◼   ► raw images. Wouldn't it be nicer if you could just say, "Ah,

01:00:58 ◼   ► I don't want to shoot raw, but I want the 48 megapixel sensor

01:01:02 ◼   ► size when there's plenty of light and just let me shoot

01:01:04 ◼   ► JPEG or the HEIC." Do we pronounce that? Do you know? Or

01:01:10 ◼   ► do we spell it out like HEIC? I always forget it, too. JPEG,

01:01:14 ◼   ► I'll never forget, but somehow HEIC, I'm always like, "Is it

01:01:19 ◼   ► HECI, HEIC?" Whatever it is.

01:01:21 ◼   ► Yeah, I see that frequently, and it still hasn't stuck in my

01:01:25 ◼   ► head. JPEG's been around forever.

01:01:26 ◼   ► Right. So when I say JPEG, I mean compressed images, and

01:01:30 ◼   ► I'll just use it as shorthand for all of them. There is no

01:01:32 ◼   ► option. You can't dig into settings and say, "I would like

01:01:35 ◼   ► to shoot JPEG and have the iPhone do the development of the

01:01:39 ◼   ► raw image for me." And because it'll be compressed, I would

01:01:42 ◼   ► guess that that means you could shoot it 48 megapixels, and it

01:01:48 ◼   ► wouldn't take a second for each shot because it's not moving

01:01:51 ◼   ► that huge raw image. It's doing the processing before it moves

01:01:55 ◼   ► it over to storage, but they don't offer that option. And I

01:01:59 ◼   ► think I see why, but I'm just curious if you have thoughts on

01:02:02 ◼   ► it. As someone who designs software, sometimes you don't

01:02:08 ◼   ► want to give users an option because you just don't want

01:02:12 ◼   ► them to shoot themselves in the foot. Right?

01:02:14 ◼   ► Right. I mean, that's... So I'm just fiddling with this right

01:02:18 ◼   ► now as you were talking about it. And when you take a raw in

01:02:22 ◼   ► 48 megapixels, it puts a little spinner on the screen, and it's

01:02:27 ◼   ► over a full second before that's done, before you can take

01:02:30 ◼   ► another photo. But I'm looking at all the controls, and

01:02:32 ◼   ► there's... because there's controls for video too, where you

01:02:35 ◼   ► can adjust 120 FPS versus 240 for slow-mo. But I don't think...

01:02:40 ◼   ► and they all have these little, what I call tiny text, under

01:02:43 ◼   ► the control. And it says a minute of video will be

01:02:45 ◼   ► approximately 45 megs for this, 65 megs for this, 100 megs for

01:02:48 ◼   ► this. But so you were talking about moving the file. Do you

01:02:50 ◼   ► think that's what the delay is? Or is it the processing?

01:02:53 ◼   ► I don't know. I don't know enough about it. But it seems to

01:02:57 ◼   ► me like it must... because at some level, some... it is using

01:03:00 ◼   ► the whole 48 megapixel sensor to shoot the 12 megapixel images.

01:03:04 ◼   ► So at some point, I'm not quite sure. Maybe it's possible that

01:03:10 ◼   ► even if they allowed you to shoot 48 megapixel JPEGs, that it

01:03:13 ◼   ► would still take a second because that's not where the...

01:03:17 ◼   ► this takes a long time comes into play. I don't know.

01:03:22 ◼   ► But they don't even make it an option.

01:03:25 ◼   ► Right. My thought would be that if you're shooting in RAW, you

01:03:29 ◼   ► have to go turn the RAW option on. So that's not even visible

01:03:33 ◼   ► by default. If you're doing that, you either have decided to

01:03:37 ◼   ► screw around with this or you know what you're doing. And so

01:03:39 ◼   ► shooting in that 48, it being a little slow, you'll be...

01:03:43 ◼   ► that'll be acceptable to you. Whereas if you're just someone

01:03:45 ◼   ► shooting normal camera shots, I think that delay would just be

01:03:49 ◼   ► too much. And that'd be my guess for why it's not enabled.

01:03:52 ◼   ► Yeah. But it's like you don't want to... and I know that's...

01:03:55 ◼   ► there are times when Apple makes the mistake of seemingly

01:03:59 ◼   ► babying users too much. I don't think this is a case. I think

01:04:04 ◼   ► this is a case where they've... a situation where they're

01:04:08 ◼   ► enabling as much as they can for people who really do want to

01:04:13 ◼   ► use their phones as pro cameras, which is what RAW shooting

01:04:17 ◼   ► is. Right? You need some kind of professional photo editing

01:04:20 ◼   ► software to develop them properly. So they're making it

01:04:24 ◼   ► possible, but they really don't want someone to accidentally

01:04:29 ◼   ► think that, "Oh, I've got the 512 gigabyte version. I can

01:04:35 ◼   ► shoot... I'm not worried about the image size. I'll shoot 48

01:04:38 ◼   ► because 48 sounds four times bigger than 12."

01:04:41 ◼   ► Sounds so much better. Sure.

01:04:42 ◼   ► Right. And then all of a sudden, they're in a situation

01:04:46 ◼   ► where, "Yeah, that would work great in lots of light, but it

01:04:50 ◼   ► doesn't work great. It doesn't work well at all in low light."

01:04:54 ◼   ► And now the whole point of the pixel binning strategy of

01:04:57 ◼   ► shooting 12 megapixel images on a 48 megapixel sensor goes out

01:05:00 ◼   ► the door if the user just has like a yellow button at the top

01:05:04 ◼   ► of the camera button to say 48. And they leave it on in the

01:05:09 ◼   ► dark because it's a manual control that they've enabled.

01:05:13 ◼   ► And it's... I could just see how this is a very complicated

01:05:16 ◼   ► dance for Apple internally to sort of whiteboard out the,

01:05:21 ◼   ► "Okay, these are the options we will let people choose. These

01:05:25 ◼   ► are the options we won't let them choose. And then these

01:05:28 ◼   ► will be the defaults." I think if you step back, it's more...

01:05:32 ◼   ► You're absolutely right. But it doesn't matter that it's a 48

01:05:36 ◼   ► megapixel camera. It's just we have... The iPhone 14 Pro now

01:05:40 ◼   ► has a better camera. And that's what most people need to know,

01:05:43 ◼   ► that every year the camera gets better. And this year it's

01:05:45 ◼   ► particularly better because of this pixel binning.

01:05:47 ◼   ► And I think most people won't even be aware that, "Oh, there's

01:05:52 ◼   ► a way that this could shoot a much bigger 48 megapixel image,

01:05:56 ◼   ► but it's not letting me do it." I think almost nobody will be

01:05:58 ◼   ► aware of it. It's definitely a wonky kind of... You'll read

01:06:01 ◼   ► about it in tech reviews, but not when you're using it. So to

01:06:03 ◼   ► me, it definitely seems like the right call. If there's a

01:06:05 ◼   ► downside... If there are these downsides, which it seems like

01:06:08 ◼   ► there would be, then just don't even allow this option because

01:06:10 ◼   ► most people aren't going to need it. Almost no one's going to

01:06:13 ◼   ► need it. The people that do want it can do it in RAW. You've

01:06:16 ◼   ► covered everybody who can take advantage of this pretty well.

01:06:18 ◼   ► Yeah, I would say so. And it kind of exemplifies the sort of

01:06:23 ◼   ► feature that Apple will dive kind of deep into during the

01:06:29 ◼   ► keynote, but then they're never going to mention it in their

01:06:32 ◼   ► advertising. In the ads, yeah. They're not going to have these

01:06:34 ◼   ► 48 megapixel sensor ads. And then people are like, "Why am I

01:06:39 ◼   ► still shooting 12 megapixel images?" And Apple is like,

01:06:43 ◼   ► "Okay, we're going to need to make a longer ad." No, it's like,

01:06:46 ◼   ► no. You don't want to explain this to people. I think you're

01:06:49 ◼   ► right. Basically, you just open the camera app, you hit the

01:06:52 ◼   ► shutter, you're going to get better looking pictures.

01:06:54 ◼   ► Than you did last year or two years ago. Exactly.

01:06:56 ◼   ► And the information is out there if you really want to dig into

01:06:59 ◼   ► it and find out more. Yeah. So one of the open questions that

01:07:03 ◼   ► we've, I've had at least, and it seems like a lot of the other

01:07:06 ◼   ► people who reviewed the iPhone 14 Pro didn't, it didn't bother

01:07:10 ◼   ► them or didn't obsess them like me, is, okay, if you've got any

01:07:15 ◼   ► of the other phones, including the new regular iPhone 14s,

01:07:20 ◼   ► brand new, just came out. The 14 Plus isn't even out yet,

01:07:24 ◼   ► right? It comes out next week. Right. Next month. And you don't

01:07:26 ◼   ► have the Dynamic Island. Where do your live activities show

01:07:30 ◼   ► up other than your lock screen? Right. Okay. Everybody, I

01:07:35 ◼   ► understand everybody's phone gets them on the lock screen,

01:07:37 ◼   ► but you're just using your iPhone 14, but there's a live

01:07:40 ◼   ► activity. Where does it show up if you don't have a Dynamic

01:07:42 ◼   ► Island? And the developer documentation before, and I

01:07:47 ◼   ► think it's just one of those things where Apple being Apple

01:07:51 ◼   ► and keeping things secret, and they successfully kept the

01:07:54 ◼   ► Dynamic Island very secret, right? People knew. Absolutely.

01:07:56 ◼   ► Yeah. Nobody knew about it until the announcement. I would say

01:07:59 ◼   ► it's one of the biggest secrets that they've kept under wraps in

01:08:01 ◼   ► recent years. Nobody had any idea. People knew about the

01:08:05 ◼   ► holes that were punched in the display, but everybody just

01:08:08 ◼   ► assumed it would be a permanent oval shape. And I think, well,

01:08:11 ◼   ► how do you keep it secret? You keep things secret by not

01:08:15 ◼   ► telling people, right? That's the, it's the most obvious

01:08:18 ◼   ► thing in the world. You keep a secret by never telling your

01:08:20 ◼   ► secrets, but therefore the developer docs for live

01:08:23 ◼   ► activities were all, I think even to people, some people

01:08:27 ◼   ► inside Apple, they were in the dark about why are we being

01:08:30 ◼   ► cagey about this? There's some obvious questions, but we're

01:08:34 ◼   ► starting to get more answers. And one of them is that the

01:08:38 ◼   ► human interface guidelines now say, having been updated,

01:08:42 ◼   ► having been updated a couple of times, they've been clarified,

01:08:45 ◼   ► but they now say on devices that don't support the Dynamic

01:08:48 ◼   ► Island, the system can display live activity update in a

01:08:52 ◼   ► banner that appears briefly while people view the home

01:08:55 ◼   ► screen or use another app, but only if the app determines

01:08:59 ◼   ► that the update is important enough to interrupt people.

01:09:02 ◼   ► Jared: Which is such a, that, that last clause is so

01:09:05 ◼   ► bizarre to me because like, it's basically saying like, but

01:09:10 ◼   ► only if you think you should. And it's like, well, great.

01:09:14 ◼   ► I'm developing whatever nonsense app that is interrupting

01:09:18 ◼   ► people. I think I should interrupt people.

01:09:21 ◼   ► Pete: Well, I guess, I guess part of it is you're only going

01:09:26 ◼   ► to get live activities when you've asked for them. So like,

01:09:31 ◼   ► if you order food from the DoorDash app and you, I think

01:09:37 ◼   ► you have to, I think, well, maybe not, I guess, or you hail

01:09:40 ◼   ► a ride from Uber, it'll just become a live activity, but

01:09:44 ◼   ► you're the one who hailed the ride, right? So, how frequently

01:09:50 ◼   ► do you want updates about where your driver is who is

01:09:53 ◼   ► delivering your food or is coming by to pick you up to take

01:09:57 ◼   ► you to the airport or whatever? It is the little ambiguous?

01:10:04 ◼   ► Jared: Yeah. Well, and, and so I don't know, like I mentioned

01:10:09 ◼   ► something tangential to this, but they're talking about the,

01:10:12 ◼   ► about putting ads in this space in live activities. And the

01:10:18 ◼   ► language there was even worse. It said, "Avoid using a live

01:10:21 ◼   ► activity to display ads and promotions. Live activities

01:10:24 ◼   ► help people stay informed, so it's important to display only

01:10:27 ◼   ► information that's related to those events or tasks."

01:10:29 ◼   ► Avoid using a live activity to display ads is so wishy-washy.

01:10:34 ◼   ► How about you just say it is forbidden to use a live

01:10:38 ◼   ► activity to display ads?

01:10:39 ◼   ► Pete: Yeah. And then, Nili Patel brought this up on the

01:10:43 ◼   ► last episode of my show and he asked Apple about it and did

01:10:46 ◼   ► not get a straight answer from them. And again, I think it's

01:10:50 ◼   ► like one of those things where like a normal person like me

01:10:54 ◼   ► doesn't even think about putting ads in the dynamic

01:10:57 ◼   ► island. I'm just thinking…

01:10:58 ◼   ► Jared; But that's not the problem.

01:10:59 ◼   ► Pete; I know. The problem is all of the abnormal people who

01:11:03 ◼   ► are in product marketing at various companies and who are

01:11:06 ◼   ► like, "Wait, we have a new area where we can put an ad and

01:11:08 ◼   ► it's always visible no matter what…"

01:11:10 ◼   ► Jared; And it'll pop up. Right, exactly.

01:11:11 ◼   ► Pete; No matter what other app, it's sort of like the holy

01:11:14 ◼   ► grail of counting engagement.

01:11:17 ◼   ► Jared; Right.

01:11:18 ◼   ► Pete; Wait, we can still keep the ad up there even when

01:11:22 ◼   ► they've left our app?

01:11:23 ◼   ► Jared; They've left the app but the ad can stay. Exactly.

01:11:25 ◼   ► So, I mean, obviously, the worst abuses of this, people

01:11:29 ◼   ► will uninstall the app, they'll delete the app, they'll

01:11:32 ◼   ► complain about it, whatever. But I mean, if you look at

01:11:34 ◼   ► notifications, notifications, push notifications on your

01:11:38 ◼   ► phone are not supposed to be used for promotions, for

01:11:40 ◼   ► advertising, whatever. And I haven't looked at what the

01:11:42 ◼   ► language is around that, but they are used that way. And

01:11:47 ◼   ► there are various apps that I have that I either have

01:11:49 ◼   ► turned off notifications or I've deleted because, "Oh,

01:11:52 ◼   ► Lyft will say like, oh, for the next six hours, you can

01:11:56 ◼   ► get 20% off on your next ride." And it's like, I don't

01:11:58 ◼   ► care, I wasn't taking a ride, stop bothering me. But

01:12:02 ◼   ► that's an app where I want the notifications for like,

01:12:04 ◼   ► your driver is three minutes away, so I can't turn off

01:12:07 ◼   ► the notification. Most apps, I just turn off the

01:12:09 ◼   ► notifications, I don't ever let them have the

01:12:11 ◼   ► notifications, and so I don't worry about it. But there's

01:12:13 ◼   ► certainly some where they're abusing this, and it's

01:12:15 ◼   ► something that I don't have enough control over to say,

01:12:18 ◼   ► "Don't show me the scammy ones, only show me the ones

01:12:20 ◼   ► that I need." And both of these things are ambiguous

01:12:23 ◼   ► enough or not restricted enough that I'm concerned

01:12:27 ◼   ► about how this is going to play out.

01:12:29 ◼   ► >> Yeah, and Uber and Lyft both have a lot of pure ads,

01:12:34 ◼   ► not like, "Eh, I'm not sure if this is really an ad or

01:12:36 ◼   ► not." They've got all sorts of stuff in their apps for

01:12:40 ◼   ► ordering food, like all I wanted was a ride to the

01:12:42 ◼   ► airport. But now, you know, while I'm waiting and

01:12:45 ◼   ► checking on where the car is, I'm being told how do I

01:12:48 ◼   ► can order Uber Eats and stuff like that.

01:12:50 ◼   ► >> Get yourself some tacos.

01:12:51 ◼   ► >> And I really don't want that in the dynamic island.

01:12:55 ◼   ► Like, I'm, I love—

01:12:56 ◼   ► >> Live views, yeah.

01:12:57 ◼   ► >> And I said this on the last episode, and I keep

01:13:00 ◼   ► thinking about it. To me, the ride hailing app is on

01:13:05 ◼   ► its way is the, to me, the best example of the dynamic

01:13:10 ◼   ► island I can think of, because whenever they're on

01:13:12 ◼   ► their way to pick me up, it's always a couple more

01:13:15 ◼   ► minutes than they told you it was going to be. It's

01:13:18 ◼   ► like, "Yeah, we'll be there in four minutes." And then

01:13:21 ◼   ► you say, "Okay," and then you double click to pay with

01:13:23 ◼   ► Apple Pay, and then they're like, "Finding you a ride."

01:13:26 ◼   ► >> Yeah, and it spins, and it does a whole bunch of

01:13:29 ◼   ► unnecessary animations to make you think something is

01:13:32 ◼   ► happening.

01:13:32 ◼   ► >> Yep, yep. It'll flip, it'll twist. There's all sorts

01:13:35 ◼   ► of—it's like, "Oh, now it's done." Nope, it's still

01:13:37 ◼   ► looking.

01:13:37 ◼   ► >> We're triangulating. Look at this.

01:13:39 ◼   ► >> And then you find out it's nine minutes, and it's

01:13:42 ◼   ► like—it's still, again, it's like the Louis C.K. bit

01:13:46 ◼   ► about being in an airplane with Wi-Fi and complaining

01:13:50 ◼   ► about it. It's like you just dialed up a nice ride to

01:13:55 ◼   ► go somewhere so you don't need to take your own car

01:13:57 ◼   ► just by poking your fingers at a phone. We're living

01:14:01 ◼   ► in the future. This is great stuff overall. Why complain

01:14:04 ◼   ► about the extra five minutes? But what do I do in those

01:14:07 ◼   ► nine minutes while the car is on its way? I spend time

01:14:10 ◼   ► dicking around on my phone, and then I lose track of

01:14:14 ◼   ► how much time has gone by, and I'm like, "Ooh, I bet the

01:14:19 ◼   ► guy's outside." The dynamic island telling me, "Nope,

01:14:21 ◼   ► they're still four minutes away. They're three minutes

01:14:24 ◼   ► away." That seems like just what the doctor ordered,

01:14:27 ◼   ► and I really do—I look forward to having that always

01:14:30 ◼   ► on screen no matter what else I'm doing with the phone.

01:14:32 ◼   ► For the nine or ten minutes, I'm waiting for them to

01:14:35 ◼   ► show up. But I will find it so annoying if they start

01:14:39 ◼   ► showing me ads for Taco Bell. Your driver driving a

01:14:44 ◼   ► silver Tesla Model 3 is five minutes away, and by the

01:14:50 ◼   ► way, you can get tacos at Taco Bell.

01:14:52 ◼   ► It's a—

01:14:53 ◼   ► Get yourself a Mexican pizza.

01:14:55 ◼   ► Right. So, I guess we'll find out how it plays, but

01:15:00 ◼   ► the more I think about it, the more worried I am that

01:15:05 ◼   ► we're going to see ads up there from some of these.

01:15:07 ◼   ► Or just nonsense in general, yeah.

01:15:09 ◼   ► Yeah, nonsense in general. Maybe you could say, "That's

01:15:12 ◼   ► not technically an ad, but it's also nonsense." But

01:15:15 ◼   ► it's from an app. You definitely want to have

01:15:17 ◼   ► permission to send you this stuff. You can't just

01:15:19 ◼   ► delete it or have it stop sending notifications.

01:15:22 ◼   ► The non-dynamic island story of this, the "What do

01:15:26 ◼   ► people see?" my guess was that it would be more or

01:15:31 ◼   ► less like maps turned by turned directions. And

01:15:34 ◼   ► that's sort of the best experience I can think of.

01:15:37 ◼   ► I think it's that the—if you have turned by

01:15:40 ◼   ► turned directions on your phone and there's some

01:15:43 ◼   ► kind of change, like, "Oh, you're getting—you're

01:15:45 ◼   ► 180 feet from where the directions say make a left,"

01:15:48 ◼   ► then it comes back up, and then you make the left,

01:15:51 ◼   ► and the GPS tells you—sees that you did it, and

01:15:54 ◼   ► your next turn isn't for a couple miles, then it

01:15:58 ◼   ► disappears. It disappears. And then it appears

01:16:01 ◼   ► again when it'll say something like, "Not this

01:16:04 ◼   ► light, but two lights from now make a right." That's

01:16:06 ◼   ► pretty much exactly the experience for all of the

01:16:09 ◼   ► live activities. But now you're asking all of these

01:16:13 ◼   ► companies, from sports companies to—I don't know.

01:16:17 ◼   ► I don't know who else is going to use the dynamic

01:16:19 ◼   ► island, but anybody sending sports scores to

01:16:22 ◼   ► determine how often to interrupt you?

01:16:24 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer** Yep. Like baseball, it's like every

01:16:26 ◼   ► time a run's scored, you can—you should tell me

01:16:28 ◼   ► about it. Football, every time points are scored,

01:16:30 ◼   ► you should tell me about it. But basketball, you

01:16:32 ◼   ► certainly don't want that.

01:16:33 ◼   ► **

01:16:40 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer** In the live activity, yeah, exactly.

01:16:43 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer** So, I don't know. We'll see how it goes.

01:16:46 ◼   ► It's like, on the one hand, I still think it's going

01:16:48 ◼   ► to be a great experience overall. I still think

01:16:50 ◼   ► it's—also think it's very, very interesting that

01:16:55 ◼   ► it's a major part of the iOS experience that is,

01:16:58 ◼   ► for this year at least, exclusive to the very

01:17:00 ◼   ► newest pro model phones only. I think it'll turn

01:17:03 ◼   ► out okay, but as we wait for the live activities

01:17:09 ◼   ► APIs to become live and third-party developers

01:17:12 ◼   ► to actually be able to ship apps that use them

01:17:15 ◼   ► so that we can see more of what the dynamic

01:17:18 ◼   ► island can do. On the other hand, it's like,

01:17:20 ◼   ► there's a part of me that's dreading it a little.

01:17:23 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer** Well, it's interesting because it

01:17:26 ◼   ► is—you talked a bunch about this in your review

01:17:28 ◼   ► of the phone, just how it's new and how it's

01:17:30 ◼   ► different. It is a new UI playground. It's small

01:17:34 ◼   ► relative to the whole screen, but it's a new

01:17:37 ◼   ► paradigm to think about, like, how should my app

01:17:39 ◼   ► interact with this and what should I do with it?

01:17:41 ◼   ► And obviously these guidelines are helpful, but

01:17:44 ◼   ► there's all sorts of different apps that might do

01:17:45 ◼   ► something there, and I can't even envision them

01:17:48 ◼   ► yet, but I'll be very interested to see them. But

01:17:51 ◼   ► yeah, there's certainly also the vague sense of

01:17:53 ◼   ► dread with anything new these days where it's like,

01:17:55 ◼   ► all right, how's somebody going to screw this up

01:17:56 ◼   ► for me?

01:17:57 ◼   ► **Justin Jackson** In a way that I never would

01:17:59 ◼   ► have guessed, right?

01:18:00 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer** Right, because like you said,

01:18:02 ◼   ► I'm a normal person and I'm not evil.

01:18:04 ◼   ► **Justin Jackson** Right. Like, I'm sitting here

01:18:05 ◼   ► worried about Taco Bell ads from Uber. And meanwhile,

01:18:08 ◼   ► if there's anybody out there from like Uber, the

01:18:11 ◼   ► type of team at Uber who puts these things in

01:18:13 ◼   ► there, they're like, that's the dumbest idea ever.

01:18:15 ◼   ► We've got 20 other...

01:18:16 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer** That are way worse.

01:18:17 ◼   ► **Justin Jackson** Way worse, but we're going

01:18:18 ◼   ► to make...

01:18:19 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer** Way more evil than that. Come

01:18:20 ◼   ► on, we can do better than that.

01:18:21 ◼   ► **Justin Jackson** All right, let's take a

01:18:22 ◼   ► break here. We'll move on from the iPhone, unless

01:18:24 ◼   ► you have more on the iPhone. But...

01:18:26 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer** No, you know, it's a new

01:18:28 ◼   ► iPhone. It looks a lot like the old iPhone. It

01:18:30 ◼   ► seems pretty good. I don't know.

01:18:31 ◼   ► **Justin Jackson** All right, let me take a

01:18:32 ◼   ► break here. Thank our next sponsor, good friends at Retool. R-E-T-O-O-L.

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01:20:03 ◼   ► Apple Watch 14, so, or not 14, Apple Watch Ultra

01:20:07 ◼   ► came out since the last episode of the show.

01:20:08 ◼   ► I've yet to see one. You've got one on your wrist

01:20:11 ◼   ► right now, or you've got one?

01:20:13 ◼   ► I've still wearing mine. Haven't taken it off

01:20:16 ◼   ► since the, or still using it as my main watch.

01:20:19 ◼   ► Although I'm curious, I actually should have

01:20:21 ◼   ► maybe tried going back to my regular Series 7

01:20:24 ◼   ► from last year before the show to see if I feel

01:20:26 ◼   ► like it's tiny. But I'm curious, so you haven't

01:20:29 ◼   ► popped into an Apple store to see one yet?

01:20:31 ◼   ► Not yet, no. I'm interested to look at it. Your

01:20:34 ◼   ► review had some good notes on sizing and saying

01:20:37 ◼   ► like the gist of it was that if it looks bad to

01:20:40 ◼   ► you, then don't get it obviously. But if you're

01:20:42 ◼   ► worried that other people are going to think it

01:20:44 ◼   ► looks bad, that they'll think the watch looks bad,

01:20:46 ◼   ► not you. And I think that is very true. But to me,

01:20:49 ◼   ► I have worn the smaller watch size for a long

01:20:51 ◼   ► time. I like the smaller watch size and that

01:20:54 ◼   ► everything that I see makes it look enormous. So

01:20:56 ◼   ► I'm interested to try it on, but I'm not terribly

01:20:58 ◼   ► interested in the product.

01:21:00 ◼   ► Right. And you and I are pals and I've seen you.

01:21:02 ◼   ► You've had a couple other watches over the years.

01:21:05 ◼   ► What was the one you had that was solar powered?

01:21:07 ◼   ► Wasn't it a Seiko?

01:21:08 ◼   ► No, it was kinetic powered. Yeah, yeah. But it

01:21:09 ◼   ► was a Seiko.

01:21:10 ◼   ► Or kinetic powered. But I know you've had other

01:21:12 ◼   ► watches and you're not as big a watch nerd as I

01:21:15 ◼   ► am, but you have some. But in recent years, I

01:21:18 ◼   ► don't know. I can't remember the last time I saw

01:21:19 ◼   ► you without your Apple Watch on. I would say a

01:21:23 ◼   ► devoted Apple Watch user. You're also a fitness

01:21:26 ◼   ► enthusiast. You're a runner. And so the fitness

01:21:28 ◼   ► features play right into that. I don't think,

01:21:31 ◼   ► though, to my knowledge, you don't really do

01:21:34 ◼   ► anything impacty, for lack of a better word. Do

01:21:39 ◼   ► you dive? Well, something that you would say, "Oh,

01:21:42 ◼   ► I need the Ultra because I keep smashing my Apple

01:21:44 ◼   ► Watches."

01:21:45 ◼   ► Right, right, right. No, yeah. I haven't, knock

01:21:48 ◼   ► wood, I haven't broken any of the faces or

01:21:50 ◼   ► anything. I mean, some of the running stuff, I do

01:21:53 ◼   ► longer races where the battery life does play

01:21:56 ◼   ► into it a little bit, or it has to be considered.

01:21:58 ◼   ► Like if you run a marathon, even with the most

01:22:00 ◼   ► recent Apple Watches, you at least need to be

01:22:02 ◼   ► concerned about the battery life and figure out

01:22:04 ◼   ► some ways to alleviate some of the pressures on

01:22:07 ◼   ► it. But yeah, the pitch that they have for doing

01:22:10 ◼   ► a 100-mile race or scuba diving or whatever,

01:22:13 ◼   ► that's, none of that is directly appealing to me

01:22:16 ◼   ► anyway.

01:22:16 ◼   ► Yeah, so the biggest appeal to you would be the

01:22:18 ◼   ► battery life.

01:22:19 ◼   ► Battery life, and yeah, I think so. I think so,

01:22:22 ◼   ► yeah.

01:22:22 ◼   ► Combined with the fact that you can do the

01:22:24 ◼   ► battery life and have more accurate GPS tracking,

01:22:28 ◼   ► right?

01:22:28 ◼   ► The GPS, I saw that that was more accurate, and

01:22:31 ◼   ► I've used the Apple Watch, I've run with it for

01:22:34 ◼   ► seven years now, and I don't know how inaccurate

01:22:38 ◼   ► it is. I know it's not perfect, but when I go out

01:22:40 ◼   ► and I do a six-mile run, if that's 5.9 miles or

01:22:44 ◼   ► if that's 6.1 miles, it doesn't really matter. So

01:22:46 ◼   ► I'm not that concerned with the GPS being super

01:22:50 ◼   ► precise, so.

01:22:51 ◼   ► Yeah, it seems to me, from what I can gather, and

01:22:53 ◼   ► again, Apple, it's one of those things where

01:22:55 ◼   ► they're not going to throw the other Apple watches

01:22:57 ◼   ► under the bus and say, "Yeah, the GPS really kind

01:22:59 ◼   ► of sucks."

01:23:00 ◼   ► So it's always an interesting dance for me to

01:23:06 ◼   ► watch, is how do they say, "This one has much

01:23:09 ◼   ► better GPS tracking, but there's nothing wrong

01:23:12 ◼   ► with the GPS on the other ones."

01:23:13 ◼   ► But everything in the old ones is fine, of

01:23:14 ◼   ► course. Yeah, the ones we're still selling

01:23:16 ◼   ► anyway.

01:23:16 ◼   ► I get the opinion that basically they figured

01:23:20 ◼   ► out that there's a sub-market of runners and

01:23:24 ◼   ► cyclists, and maybe other activities, but who

01:23:28 ◼   ► really, really want the GPS to be precise.

01:23:31 ◼   ► Whether they need it to be or not, I get it.

01:23:34 ◼   ► I get caring about details like that, right?

01:23:37 ◼   ► That it uses Helvetica instead of Ariel or

01:23:40 ◼   ► something that most people would consider

01:23:42 ◼   ► superficial. Who cares? Most people would

01:23:44 ◼   ► think if your run through downtown Boston

01:23:48 ◼   ► makes it look like you cut through a building

01:23:50 ◼   ► at one point around the corner. You know

01:23:52 ◼   ► where you ran if you look back at the track

01:23:54 ◼   ► and you're like, "Oh, that's the time I ran

01:23:56 ◼   ► this way." And that it looks like it cut

01:23:59 ◼   ► through a corner, it doesn't bother you.

01:24:01 ◼   ► Whereas other people, it bothers them. And I

01:24:03 ◼   ► get it, right? And I think also there are

01:24:06 ◼   ► other competing GPS watches that don't have

01:24:10 ◼   ► the problem. And so I can also definitely

01:24:12 ◼   ► see how if you're already wearing something

01:24:14 ◼   ► from Garmin or one of these other companies,

01:24:17 ◼   ► and when you wear that watch and you go on

01:24:20 ◼   ► a bike ride, the GPS is completely accurate,

01:24:23 ◼   ► or as accurate as you think is reasonable

01:24:26 ◼   ► for GPS. And then you've tried an Apple

01:24:28 ◼   ► watch and it's mostly accurate but cuts off

01:24:31 ◼   ► corners around skyscrapers and stuff like

01:24:33 ◼   ► that. That's a hard switch because you're

01:24:36 ◼   ► already used to the one that's more accurate.

01:24:38 ◼   ► It's always hard to go backwards, right?

01:24:41 ◼   ► Once you've switched to something with a

01:24:42 ◼   ► retina display—nobody ever complained about

01:24:44 ◼   ► the retina, the non-retina displays on

01:24:47 ◼   ► MacBook Airs until all the other products—

01:24:49 ◼   ► Steven: Until the other one.

01:24:50 ◼   ► Right, until all their iPhones and iPads

01:24:53 ◼   ► had retina displays. And here's this

01:24:54 ◼   ► MacBook with these giant pixels that didn't

01:24:57 ◼   ► bother you until three years ago, but now

01:24:59 ◼   ► you got used to it. Well, once you're used

01:25:01 ◼   ► to the fine-grain GPS accuracy, seems hard

01:25:04 ◼   ► to go back. The battery life seems to me,

01:25:06 ◼   ► though, like one of the killer features

01:25:09 ◼   ► that might lead if the Apple Watch Ultra

01:25:13 ◼   ► turns into a bigger hit. I don't know, not

01:25:16 ◼   ► that I'm expecting, but maybe then people's—

01:25:19 ◼   ► if it hits the over on the over-under for

01:25:21 ◼   ► what people's gut feeling is for how

01:25:23 ◼   ► popular it'll be, battery life could be

01:25:25 ◼   ► the biggest one because it affects almost

01:25:29 ◼   ► everybody, especially fitness people,

01:25:31 ◼   ► right? Like people who do two-hour

01:25:32 ◼   ► workouts, if you've got the watch tracking

01:25:34 ◼   ► your fitness the whole time, it definitely

01:25:36 ◼   ► takes a hit on the other ones. Whereas

01:25:38 ◼   ► with the Ultra, the difference in battery

01:25:41 ◼   ► life is just—it's hard to—you can list

01:25:45 ◼   ► the numbers, but it's very different in

01:25:47 ◼   ► practice. It's like, wait, I haven't

01:25:48 ◼   ► charged that, so I've been wearing this

01:25:50 ◼   ► other than in the shower for a day or two,

01:25:54 ◼   ► and I haven't charged it, and it's still

01:25:55 ◼   ► at 50 percent? That doesn't—it like

01:25:58 ◼   ► totally breaks my mind with how I think

01:26:00 ◼   ► of an Apple Watch. But the thing to me is

01:26:03 ◼   ► that—so I used to wear a non-smartwatch,

01:26:07 ◼   ► and I didn't have to charge it at all,

01:26:08 ◼   ► literally walking around charged it, and

01:26:10 ◼   ► so I never took it off, I didn't think

01:26:12 ◼   ► about it, whatever. I had a pebble for a

01:26:14 ◼   ► little while, and I can't remember, I

01:26:16 ◼   ► think I had to charge that like once a

01:26:18 ◼   ► week, maybe every three or four days. But

01:26:19 ◼   ► when I got the Apple Watch, every night I

01:26:21 ◼   ► had to take it off, I had to charge it,

01:26:23 ◼   ► and that just became the routine. And so

01:26:25 ◼   ► the thing for me is that if the Apple

01:26:28 ◼   ► Watch lasted two days instead of one day,

01:26:30 ◼   ► it really wouldn't do me any good, because

01:26:33 ◼   ► I'm still just gonna—I either have to

01:26:35 ◼   ► charge it every other day, which is a

01:26:36 ◼   ► weird schedule, or I'm just gonna throw

01:26:38 ◼   ► it on the charger every night, and I'm

01:26:39 ◼   ► never gonna get below 50 percent. So for

01:26:42 ◼   ► an actual activity, if you're out there

01:26:44 ◼   ► doing an ultra marathon, you're running

01:26:45 ◼   ► 100 miles, and you need that battery to

01:26:48 ◼   ► last that whole time, it makes perfect

01:26:51 ◼   ► sense. But in terms of like day-to-day

01:26:52 ◼   ► usage, my watch is now two-plus years

01:26:56 ◼   ► old, and I usually run in the morning, and

01:26:58 ◼   ► I'll play tennis at night or something

01:26:59 ◼   ► like that, and either I don't have to

01:27:02 ◼   ► charge it at all, or I'll throw it on the

01:27:03 ◼   ► charger for a few minutes during the day.

01:27:05 ◼   ► But it's not something where, like, when I

01:27:07 ◼   ► got it, it was certainly good for the

01:27:08 ◼   ► entire day, and I just charged it every

01:27:10 ◼   ► night, and I never thought about it. So a

01:27:12 ◼   ► little bit more battery, even if it's an

01:27:14 ◼   ► a whole, even if it's 100 percent more

01:27:16 ◼   ► battery, to me wouldn't really change the

01:27:17 ◼   ► way I wore it. So I find that interesting

01:27:20 ◼   ► that, like, some of the garments they talk

01:27:22 ◼   ► about literally weeks of using this,

01:27:25 ◼   ► actively using it, without needing to

01:27:27 ◼   ► charge it, and that is, then you change the

01:27:29 ◼   ► way you use it entirely. But an extra day

01:27:32 ◼   ► doesn't really do anything for me.

01:27:33 ◼   ► [

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02:05:03 ◼   ► had the idea and you thought maybe we should try saying the word hijack and make it a shape

02:05:07 ◼   ► of that and then you do it and the waveform for the word hijack looks stupid. You're

02:05:12 ◼   ► like, ah, we need a better word. But it's fun that the word actually looks good.