The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► I missed it this year. I was not at the Mac world. Oh you weren't there. Oh

00:00:04 ◼   ► Did you see me oh I

00:00:09 ◼   ► Must have yeah, you know I do I know we

00:00:12 ◼   ► I'm trying to know you were you were missed. I'm trying to remember the last time I missed a macro

00:00:18 ◼   ► And I it's been so many years in a row that I don't even remember

00:00:21 ◼   ► See I told you I like the first night I got I got to I had a few too many beverages

00:00:26 ◼   ► and I think it was because I wasn't there to watch you.

00:00:31 ◼   ► You weren't there for me to watch so that I would know how much was too many.

00:00:36 ◼   ► So how was the show?

00:00:44 ◼   ► It was pretty good. I mean it's, I haven't seen numbers for the traffic, but the traffic on the floor was decent.

00:00:52 ◼   ► And I can never tell because they always move it around.

00:00:56 ◼   ► So it's hard to, so this year it was in Moscone North.

00:01:00 ◼   ► Oh, so that's weird. Well, I mean not weird but different.

00:01:04 ◼   ► Right. And I can't, you know, so I can't judge how big the floor was compared to previous years.

00:01:08 ◼   ► Right. Because the last couple of years it was in Moscone West.

00:01:12 ◼   ► Which is, in my opinion, a much nicer building because it's above ground.

00:01:16 ◼   ► Right. It is a little nicer.

00:01:20 ◼   ► little nicer flooded with sunlight and then Moscone North and South are

00:01:24 ◼   ► literally subterranean right in there that's not you know like a euphemism or

00:01:29 ◼   ► something so you're in a cave was lived you literally go down and it seemed it

00:01:38 ◼   ► seemed like the show was maybe maybe just a little bit smaller than last year

00:01:41 ◼   ► I don't know but at the same time it also just seemed like there was less

00:01:45 ◼   ► just junk. For a long time, particularly after the iPhone came out,

00:01:51 ◼   ► it just got flooded with like crappy cases and stuff like that.

00:01:57 ◼   ► And there's still a few little sort of, you know, there are the boos that are just hawking

00:02:08 ◼   ► the cheapest possible earphones and stuff like that. But for the most part, I think it seemed

00:02:15 ◼   ► to me like what they shed or maybe a couple of the large like like Omni wasn't there.

00:02:20 ◼   ► Romney has for years had a big booth and they didn't have a booth there this year but

00:02:25 ◼   ► they it also just seemed like there was a lot of the junk was cut out too which was

00:02:32 ◼   ► nice.

00:02:33 ◼   ► Yeah I remember specifically in 2011 because it had to be 2011 because it was the first

00:02:39 ◼   ► year after the iPad was, the original iPad was announced. And it really seemed like half

00:02:45 ◼   ► the booths were for either iPad cases or, and it was such a huge thing. And then once

00:02:53 ◼   ► you noticed it, you just couldn't help seeing it. Like every other booth was selling it.

00:02:56 ◼   ► Like attachable arms that you could attach an iPad to to make it like hang on a wall

00:03:02 ◼   ► or you know.

00:03:06 ◼   ► sort of just like that because they were throwing everything up against right it

00:03:10 ◼   ► was just anything they could just snap onto an iPad and it was like robot arms

00:03:14 ◼   ► and you know just ways that you would like hang it in it on a cubicle and it's

00:03:19 ◼   ► like all these things and I just remember thinking like I can see how

00:03:21 ◼   ► like in a rare case somebody needs this thing but I can't imagine how half of

00:03:28 ◼   ► these booths could be selling these you know how many people actually need that

00:03:31 ◼   ► to hang their iPad on a wall yeah and there were boot there were single booze

00:03:35 ◼   ► that just had literally hundreds of different iPhone cases.

00:03:39 ◼   ► - Right. - Back then.

00:03:41 ◼   ► And it seems like that stuff has kind of--

00:03:44 ◼   ► - Dried up as a-- - It's well, yeah, I mean,

00:03:45 ◼   ► I think they've settled down a little bit. (laughs)

00:03:48 ◼   ► - Right, I think it's not that they're selling,

00:03:50 ◼   ► that the industry as a whole is selling fewer iPad cases.

00:03:54 ◼   ► They're probably selling more than ever

00:03:55 ◼   ► because Apple's selling more iPads than ever.

00:03:57 ◼   ► It's just that the sort of gold rush mentality

00:04:01 ◼   ► of, okay, we're gonna be a company that makes these.

00:04:04 ◼   ► we better get a booth at all these trade shows is over.

00:04:09 ◼   ► - Right.

00:04:09 ◼   ► - What about the conference, how'd that go?

00:04:13 ◼   ► - Pretty well, yeah, I mean,

00:04:15 ◼   ► I didn't go to a huge number of,

00:04:16 ◼   ► I was only there two days,

00:04:18 ◼   ► and I was on one panel,

00:04:21 ◼   ► and then I went to a couple others,

00:04:24 ◼   ► and the ones I saw were good.

00:04:27 ◼   ► The one that I really liked was the,

00:04:31 ◼   ► I'm gonna get the name wrong,

00:04:32 ◼   ► It's the rapid fire, I think, where they got like 18 people

00:04:37 ◼   ► come up and talk about something for five minutes.

00:04:39 ◼   ► - Oh, that's a great format.

00:04:40 ◼   ► I love that.

00:04:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, and they had a really good set of examples

00:04:46 ◼   ► of different technologies and also just ways to do things.

00:04:51 ◼   ► I went in there sort of on a lark

00:04:54 ◼   ► and then I found myself taking notes.

00:04:56 ◼   ► So that was pretty good.

00:04:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, a lot of times, I think that's a great format

00:05:00 ◼   ► and it's like, it's the way that Twitter

00:05:03 ◼   ► can be a more efficient means of communication.

00:05:05 ◼   ► Even if you're struggling at first to fit your idea,

00:05:08 ◼   ► you know, whatever it is you're trying to convey

00:05:10 ◼   ► into 140 characters, once you do,

00:05:12 ◼   ► it's the condensed nugget of the message

00:05:17 ◼   ► you're trying to get apart.

00:05:18 ◼   ► And that's the same thing with those three minute

00:05:20 ◼   ► or five minute flash sessions.

00:05:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, like Kyle Wiens, Kyle Wiens had a pretty funny,

00:05:26 ◼   ► he's the iFixit guy who I think,

00:05:29 ◼   ► drives some people crazy because he rails against Apple

00:05:34 ◼   ► for making devices that are less and less fixable

00:05:39 ◼   ► over the years, at least that's been a trend.

00:05:42 ◼   ► But he had a good one where he would just like

00:05:45 ◼   ► talk about easy ways to fix your devices

00:05:48 ◼   ► and then he threw in a bunch of them

00:05:50 ◼   ► that he was obviously pretending were easy

00:05:52 ◼   ► that were really not easy at all.

00:05:54 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:05:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, his--

00:05:57 ◼   ► Trying to get an iPad mini open.

00:05:59 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:06:01 ◼   ► I am never going to try to get an iPad mini open.

00:06:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, you know what?

00:06:06 ◼   ► I'm looking at my iPad mini right now

00:06:07 ◼   ► and I have to say, I don't even know.

00:06:09 ◼   ► - It's like, I mean, you have to like,

00:06:11 ◼   ► there's this thing that you have to buy

00:06:13 ◼   ► and you put it in the microwave to heat it up

00:06:15 ◼   ► and then you have to apply it to the mini

00:06:18 ◼   ► to get to loosen up like some of the gum,

00:06:21 ◼   ► I guess underneath or something like that

00:06:22 ◼   ► so you can pry off.

00:06:24 ◼   ► Like, no.

00:06:25 ◼   ► I don't even see, I guess you have to somehow loosen the adhesive that detaches the screen.

00:06:32 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:06:33 ◼   ► And then you have to stick a bunch of different, like, I don't know, when you go, splongers

00:06:37 ◼   ► or whatever those things are, those little plastic things that you pry things apart with.

00:06:42 ◼   ► Yeah, I know, I forget what they're called.

00:06:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I've got a bunch of them here.

00:06:44 ◼   ► Yeah, his stick has been, the thing that you're talking about that he annoys people is that

00:06:49 ◼   ► his stick is that every single design decision that Apple makes with any of its devices that

00:06:54 ◼   ► ends up making it hard for them or other third-party fix-it shops to fix these

00:07:00 ◼   ► things he attributes to so solely solely likes like in money spite you know that

00:07:08 ◼   ► it's a money-making grab on Apple's part and that it has you know nothing to do

00:07:13 ◼   ► with the obvious which is making these devices is ridiculously thin and light

00:07:18 ◼   ► as possible. Right. Right. Like how do you gonna, you know. How do you like that? Yeah.

00:07:25 ◼   ► Didn't silence my phone. It's Kyle Wayans. Oh this is good. It's a 1-800 number. I'm

00:07:29 ◼   ► gonna answer it on the air.

00:07:30 ◼   ► 721 dollars to be collected from your next month billing statement.

00:07:39 ◼   ► To redeem your $721, please visit www.att721.com.

00:07:47 ◼   ► www.att721.com.

00:07:52 ◼   ► Simply log into your account to redeem your $721.

00:07:55 ◼   ► At AT&T, we care about you.

00:07:57 ◼   ► Thank you and have a nice day.

00:07:59 ◼   ► Whoa.

00:08:00 ◼   ► Now clearly that's not AT&T.

00:08:03 ◼   ► You know what?

00:08:05 ◼   ► I've been getting...

00:08:06 ◼   ► So what is that?

00:08:06 ◼   ► So that is like come to our site and log in with your AT&T credentials that we can

00:08:11 ◼   ► steal your information. I guess so. I guess I've just been right here live on the talk show. I was

00:08:16 ◼   ► fishing attempted over the phone. Huh. I'm not going to go to that site. I'm having

00:08:23 ◼   ► enough problems with logging into things today. My thanks to our first sponsor.

00:08:31 ◼   ► AT&T dot 721.com.

00:08:33 ◼   ► Go there and get your 721 dollars.

00:08:40 ◼   ► Now your account probably is more than that, right?

00:08:44 ◼   ► My monthly, well I'm on Verizon, but my monthly bill is not that much.

00:08:50 ◼   ► No, my monthly bill is not that much either. And mine is also on Verizon.

00:08:55 ◼   ► I've gotten that call before.

00:08:57 ◼   ► Yeah, so right, you don't even have an AT&T.

00:09:00 ◼   ► Honestly, I don't know which bastard company I've given my phone number to has sold me out, but no

00:09:07 ◼   ► I hate it too because you can do about it

00:09:11 ◼   ► What I'll do with some of those two is just to waste their time

00:09:13 ◼   ► Like now that one's that's hard because it they don't even want to talk to me

00:09:17 ◼   ► They just want me to go to their phishing website

00:09:19 ◼   ► which I haven't seen that before until like last week when I started getting these calls, but

00:09:26 ◼   ► If it's a usual one where they're like, you know, press one to speak to a representative

00:09:30 ◼   ► I'll do it if I'm not busy

00:09:32 ◼   ► I'll press one and then I'll just try to waste their time and be a jerk on the phone for a couple minutes. I

00:09:37 ◼   ► Don't answer the phone at all I never answer the phone Oh, maybe never answers the phone either

00:09:45 ◼   ► I hate answering the phone which drives my mother insane, right?

00:09:47 ◼   ► because she's you know, her generation was like

00:09:51 ◼   ► Who a phone call could be? Yeah, right a phone call, right?

00:09:56 ◼   ► It's like a social obligation.

00:09:58 ◼   ► - It's yeah, you gotta answer the phone.

00:10:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, what kind of a person makes a phone call?

00:10:03 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, that's the other thing.

00:10:04 ◼   ► I also don't make phone calls.

00:10:05 ◼   ► - You and I are good friends.

00:10:06 ◼   ► We've been friends for many years.

00:10:08 ◼   ► I think it's a very,

00:10:11 ◼   ► I think there's a very high likelihood

00:10:12 ◼   ► that you and I have never once made a phone call

00:10:14 ◼   ► to each other.

00:10:15 ◼   ► - I don't think I have your number.

00:10:16 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:10:17 ◼   ► - I know I wouldn't give you mine.

00:10:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, well.

00:10:19 ◼   ► But I don't need your number.

00:10:22 ◼   ► - Right, right.

00:10:24 ◼   ► There's like 12 different ways I can get a hold of you.

00:10:27 ◼   ► And none of them involve calling you on the phone.

00:10:30 ◼   ► - Although I do, it does occur to me though that,

00:10:32 ◼   ► and so for example, we're talking about

00:10:36 ◼   ► going to Macworld Expo, I still call it Macworld Expo.

00:10:39 ◼   ► I know it's-- - So do I.

00:10:40 ◼   ► - Macworld, iWorld. - I can't do Macworld, iWorld.

00:10:43 ◼   ► - What do they call it?

00:10:44 ◼   ► Is that the official name, Macworld iWorld?

00:10:45 ◼   ► - That's the official Macworld iWorld.

00:10:47 ◼   ► - Is there a slash?

00:10:48 ◼   ► - Well, you spell it that way, but you don't say it.

00:10:51 ◼   ► - Slash is silent.

00:10:52 ◼   ► - But we've been going--

00:10:54 ◼   ► Because it's actually Macworld divided by iWorld.

00:10:56 ◼   ► We've been going, I don't even know when I first started going, but it's sometime in

00:10:59 ◼   ► the 2000s when I started going to the one in San Francisco.

00:11:05 ◼   ► And you know, you and I are friends, we'll have adult beverages, you know, in the happy

00:11:09 ◼   ► hour and we have, you know, a circle of other friends we often meet with.

00:11:13 ◼   ► I don't remember how that we ever coordinated that before we had iPhones.

00:11:19 ◼   ► I had a cell phone, but I don't, you know, it was stupid little one with nine buttons.

00:11:24 ◼   ► I mean, you could text, but it was like to get a C, you had to hit the two button three

00:11:29 ◼   ► times, you know.

00:11:30 ◼   ► I certainly wasn't using that much.

00:11:33 ◼   ► I don't remember how we coordinated stuff like that.

00:11:35 ◼   ► I don't need, I, yeah, I don't either.

00:11:39 ◼   ► Email?

00:11:40 ◼   ► I guess, but how did we check our email?

00:11:42 ◼   ► I mean, were we, did we take laptops everywhere?

00:11:45 ◼   ► And if we did, how are we?

00:11:46 ◼   ► We could only use them when we were on Wi-Fi.

00:11:49 ◼   ► And I don't remember there being Wi-Fi at MacworldX.

00:11:51 ◼   ► I guess we called.

00:11:52 ◼   ► I mean, I guess we--

00:11:53 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:11:55 ◼   ► I guess?

00:11:56 ◼   ► I mean, I didn't go too many--

00:11:57 ◼   ► well, I guess actually my first one was the one where the iPhone was introduced.

00:12:01 ◼   ► So I only went to one without an iPhone.

00:12:03 ◼   ► Huh.

00:12:04 ◼   ► I don't remember how we--

00:12:07 ◼   ► I don't remember how adults coordinated things like,

00:12:10 ◼   ► "Hey, let's all meet for drinks somewhere."

00:12:11 ◼   ► And we used to just, well we used to meet at sessions.

00:12:15 ◼   ► Right.

00:12:15 ◼   ► Which we still kind of, which still is done.

00:12:18 ◼   ► I guess we just did it.

00:12:18 ◼   ► So and so's doing a session, you hang out at the session and then you talk to them afterwards.

00:12:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:22 ◼   ► Let's find out where to go.

00:12:22 ◼   ► Right. And somebody would make an initial decision and somehow it would like, like communicate,

00:12:29 ◼   ► I don't know, like caveman style.

00:12:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:32 ◼   ► I don't remember. And then I guess maybe we just stuck together for the whole night. Like nobody.

00:12:36 ◼   ► Yeah, you basically, yeah, you travel in packs.

00:12:38 ◼   ► You're afraid to go take a leak because you're-

00:12:41 ◼   ► Yeah, right.

00:12:41 ◼   ► Everybody would get up and go and get lost.

00:12:43 ◼   ► You'd have no idea where they are.

00:12:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:45 ◼   ► No way to find them.

00:12:46 ◼   ► I was supposed to meet our good friend Paul Kaphas out in the street to catch an Uber to go someplace.

00:12:52 ◼   ► And I got mixed up because he said mission and I thought I heard market.

00:12:57 ◼   ► So I was over at market and he was trying to, we were like messaging each other back and forth.

00:13:05 ◼   ► And he was trying to figure out where the heck I was at one point.

00:13:07 ◼   ► and he just like he got in to find my friends

00:13:10 ◼   ► and I was like I can see him, I can see his little dot,

00:13:13 ◼   ► where the heck is he?

00:13:14 ◼   ► It's like a block over.

00:13:16 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:13:19 ◼   ► So yeah, so there's like, and then,

00:13:22 ◼   ► we didn't do it this time, but setting up like a board,

00:13:26 ◼   ► what's the--

00:13:27 ◼   ► - Glass board.

00:13:28 ◼   ► - Glass board, yeah.

00:13:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, but that's another one that requires an iPhone.

00:13:32 ◼   ► - Right. - Right, glass board

00:13:33 ◼   ► is fantastic for a little ad hoc,

00:13:35 ◼   ► social temporary social group

00:13:39 ◼   ► but i mean in fact it's almost

00:13:41 ◼   ► like that

00:13:42 ◼   ► ideal use case of glassboard but uh...

00:13:45 ◼   ► again it requires an iPhone

00:13:47 ◼   ► i don't remember

00:13:49 ◼   ► seems and i don't

00:13:53 ◼   ► uh... down on the missed out on a lot back then is what happened

00:13:56 ◼   ► yeah i guess maybe

00:13:57 ◼   ► maybe we just all you know called it a night early and went to bed

00:14:02 ◼   ► I don't really know how sad is that somehow though the fact that I don't remember makes me think that no, that's not what we do

00:14:08 ◼   ► So where were the conference sessions if that if the expo was in Moscone North

00:14:17 ◼   ► the conference sessions were like in that big long hallway right outside the

00:14:21 ◼   ► entrance in

00:14:24 ◼   ► The in the base. Yeah in the basement part, which I didn't even realize where they were there particularly

00:14:31 ◼   ► So there was some in there and then you went through that tunnel to South and the that big

00:14:36 ◼   ► Auditorium there, which I think is where you gave is that where you gave your talk that one year your keynote that one year

00:14:43 ◼   ► Yeah, well, it was a big room. I don't know if it was the the big room, but it was a big room

00:14:49 ◼   ► Yeah, it looked like it looked about the same size as that one

00:14:52 ◼   ► It was pretty big that which which is where they like the big presentations were

00:14:56 ◼   ► Yeah, which is technically in Moscone South, but it's just connected

00:15:00 ◼   ► Yeah, it's in that like by that tunnel. I don't know what you would call like a concourse between Moscone North. Yeah. Yeah

00:15:07 ◼   ► There's often vendors in there too, and I've never understood

00:15:11 ◼   ► I've never understood how that how that happened came to be. Yeah, this year is just all in all in North. Yeah

00:15:20 ◼   ► is North the bigger one or the

00:15:23 ◼   ► Smaller one probably the smaller one. It's the smaller one

00:15:27 ◼   ► That's a small one because I remember when Apple used to go with everything they used to have the

00:15:33 ◼   ► big stuff in South where Apple's booth was and then like the little like the North was was more

00:15:42 ◼   ► of the ghetto. Right. Like the little small companies one. But that was always fun.

00:15:47 ◼   ► No, but they had Tiny Town was still in South. I remember. It just seemed like I think the

00:15:57 ◼   ► the less expensive booths were in North back then.

00:16:00 ◼   ► - Did you see Merlin?

00:16:02 ◼   ► Was Merlin there?

00:16:03 ◼   ► - No, I did not see Merlin this year.

00:16:05 ◼   ► I don't know if he came out for the show.

00:16:10 ◼   ► - I believe it was Merlin who coined Tiny Town.

00:16:12 ◼   ► - Yes, it is.

00:16:13 ◼   ► - Tiny Town is always my favorite place to talk to people,

00:16:17 ◼   ► talk to the booth people.

00:16:18 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:16:19 ◼   ► - 'Cause it's the place where you see the people

00:16:21 ◼   ► who either A, have like a really clever new thing

00:16:26 ◼   ► that you've never heard of before and you're actually genuinely like, "Wow, I just learned

00:16:30 ◼   ► about a new thing. This is why this is like a legitimate business expense. I just learned

00:16:36 ◼   ► something I wouldn't have learned otherwise." Or B, this person is crazy. This person has

00:16:44 ◼   ► a crazy idea. I cannot believe that they have a company set up to do this. But they're fascinating

00:16:52 ◼   ► to talk to for five minutes about their crazy idea.

00:16:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:56 ◼   ► Yeah, there was one, I didn't see these guys, but I think Serenity Caldwell was telling me about it.

00:17:01 ◼   ► They had some home automation hub.

00:17:06 ◼   ► I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was like, everything that you use will connect into it.

00:17:12 ◼   ► And she's like, "Well, how are you going to do that?"

00:17:15 ◼   ► And I'm like, "Oh, well, we published an API."

00:17:18 ◼   ► Really?

00:17:19 ◼   ► So they had a real build it, if you build it, they will come mentality.

00:17:26 ◼   ► Everyone was going to be hooking into their system just because.

00:17:28 ◼   ► What do you mean though that everything would?

00:17:31 ◼   ► Like your iPhone and any device that you wanted to control your home from would run into their

00:17:39 ◼   ► system because everybody would build into their APIs.

00:17:43 ◼   ► Yeah, good luck with that.

00:17:47 ◼   ► What about smartwatches and stuff like that?

00:17:51 ◼   ► Anything? - I didn't see,

00:17:54 ◼   ► no, I didn't see any of that stuff, really.

00:18:02 ◼   ► I mean, I didn't see any of the names that we know.

00:18:05 ◼   ► - Right.

00:18:06 ◼   ► - I mean, 'cause none of that's,

00:18:07 ◼   ► I mean, the stuff that really exists other than Pebble,

00:18:11 ◼   ► which isn't really,

00:18:12 ◼   ► I mean, they don't really go to trade shows

00:18:15 ◼   ► at this point, right?

00:18:16 ◼   ► - I don't know if they do or not.

00:18:17 ◼   ► I was just yeah, that's a good question, but I didn't see pebble there. I don't think they were there and then you know most of the other stuff is all Android.

00:18:24 ◼   ► Or Tyson.

00:18:26 ◼   ► Is it something about the Tyson stuff isn't even shipping though is it it's like just like announced. Yeah, I don't think so. No, I don't think so. All right.

00:18:33 ◼   ► What about Google glass? You see anybody wearing the glass? I saw one person. I saw one person wearing Google glass.

00:18:41 ◼   ► And I think that's the whole, even the whole time.

00:18:43 ◼   ► I saw one person in the show with Google Glass,

00:18:46 ◼   ► and I didn't see anybody else wearing it in San Francisco,

00:18:49 ◼   ► which I was kind of surprised about.

00:18:50 ◼   ► I thought there would be a little bit more of that.

00:18:53 ◼   ► - 'Cause even, it's been a while.

00:18:55 ◼   ► I don't think I've been to San Francisco

00:18:56 ◼   ► in a couple months, but I know,

00:18:57 ◼   ► I remember even back at WWDC,

00:19:01 ◼   ► which was what, like nine months ago-ish?

00:19:05 ◼   ► Yeah, April, May, June.

00:19:07 ◼   ► Yeah, so about nine months ago.

00:19:10 ◼   ► You'd see, you know, a couple times a day you'd see somebody wearing it, either in WWDC,

00:19:16 ◼   ► either in the, you know, somebody who's actually attending, or just out and about on the streets

00:19:20 ◼   ► of San Francisco.

00:19:21 ◼   ► You'd see somebody.

00:19:22 ◼   ► You know, it obviously wasn't a huge thing, but it was, it sticks out enough that it,

00:19:27 ◼   ► you know, you always notice it, especially I think if you're from out of town.

00:19:33 ◼   ► But it seems to me like the, like we've already reached peak glass.

00:19:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:38 ◼   ► I mean, and you know.

00:19:41 ◼   ► And there are enough, it's like San Francisco is having enough social problems with glass

00:19:45 ◼   ► right now that.

00:19:47 ◼   ► Right.

00:19:48 ◼   ► If you own glass, you're probably thinking when you go out, maybe I'll, you know, go

00:19:52 ◼   ► out for a drink or whatever.

00:19:54 ◼   ► Maybe I'll just leave the glass home.

00:19:56 ◼   ► Right.

00:19:57 ◼   ► And you know, that could change in the future if, you know, they come out with a new version

00:20:02 ◼   ► that is less noticeable.

00:20:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:20:05 ◼   ► Which is, I'm sure is the plan.

00:20:07 ◼   ► Warby Parkers. Right. You may not even be able to go out without it. Right. It's

00:20:11 ◼   ► because it's either going to fade away and they're going to just sort of brush

00:20:14 ◼   ► it under the rug and you know say I forget about that or it's going to get

00:20:18 ◼   ► less noticeable. So that could change but the glass as we know it these Explorer

00:20:24 ◼   ► kits you know it's I think that the naysayers were exactly right. The things

00:20:32 ◼   ► are ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah because some like Macworld Expos where if it was

00:20:36 ◼   ► still taking off if people were still wearing them you'd you would have seen more than one

00:20:41 ◼   ► because just you know a year ago you saw it more frequently right yeah that was like i said i was

00:20:48 ◼   ► surprised because i just i thought that you know you'd see you know yeah everybody would be wearing

00:20:55 ◼   ► them i kind of get the feeling too with the whole um android wear announcement that it's i and i

00:21:04 ◼   ► I could be wrong.

00:21:06 ◼   ► I have no inside knowledge of what the hell Google is up to.

00:21:10 ◼   ► So they could have an amazing new Glass 2.0 ready to announce

00:21:14 ◼   ► any week now.

00:21:16 ◼   ► But I kind of get the feeling that Android Wear is sort of,

00:21:19 ◼   ► OK, forget about Glass.

00:21:20 ◼   ► Now we're going with this stuff, with the watches and the--

00:21:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:25 ◼   ► --amulets.

00:21:27 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:21:28 ◼   ► That's a good idea, an amulet.

00:21:30 ◼   ► Right.

00:21:31 ◼   ► And you get Flavor Flav.

00:21:33 ◼   ► - Dr. Strange.

00:21:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, like Dr. Strange or--

00:21:36 ◼   ► - Acomato or whatever.

00:21:37 ◼   ► - Flavor Flav, I mean, I'm sure you'd get Flavor Flav

00:21:40 ◼   ► to wear one.

00:21:41 ◼   ► - Sure.

00:21:43 ◼   ► And that's where you know that something's really good

00:21:46 ◼   ► is when they have a celebrity spokesperson.

00:21:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:21:50 ◼   ► I don't understand why anybody does that.

00:21:52 ◼   ► - A celebrity spokesperson?

00:21:53 ◼   ► - A celebrity spokesperson just is like,

00:21:55 ◼   ► it just reeks of desperation to me.

00:21:58 ◼   ► But somebody must be telling, I mean,

00:22:02 ◼   ► Maybe they have numbers that I don't--

00:22:05 ◼   ► I've never seen.

00:22:06 ◼   ► But HTC dragging poor Robert Downey Jr. out

00:22:10 ◼   ► to talk about how great HTC is.

00:22:13 ◼   ► He probably does not use an HTC phone.

00:22:15 ◼   ► I can see it just for the commercial.

00:22:18 ◼   ► If you're going to--

00:22:21 ◼   ► for example, I don't think--

00:22:22 ◼   ► I never liked Apple's celebrity ads either.

00:22:25 ◼   ► Right.

00:22:26 ◼   ► Who'd they have?

00:22:26 ◼   ► They had Zooey Deschanel.

00:22:29 ◼   ► Deschanel and--

00:22:30 ◼   ► Sam Jackson.

00:22:32 ◼   ► - Samuel Jackson, yeah.

00:22:34 ◼   ► And was it?

00:22:37 ◼   ► - Martin Scorsese.

00:22:39 ◼   ► - De Niro?

00:22:40 ◼   ► Yeah, oh no, it was Scorsese.

00:22:42 ◼   ► - Scorsese in the backseat of a cab talking to Siri.

00:22:45 ◼   ► Which was the one that I think was the most problematic

00:22:50 ◼   ► because A, he was in midtown Manhattan.

00:22:55 ◼   ► And you don't, whatever your experience with Siri is like,

00:23:00 ◼   ► I mean, it still depends on having a working internet connection.

00:23:03 ◼   ► An actual internet connection.

00:23:05 ◼   ► And B, Martin Scorsese famously is one of the fastest speakers in the world.

00:23:12 ◼   ► And to have that rat-tat-tat conversation with Siri

00:23:17 ◼   ► was really stretching the limits of belief for anybody who actually used Siri,

00:23:23 ◼   ► especially anybody who's tried to use Siri in Midtown Manhattan.

00:23:26 ◼   ► But again, they weren't having those celebrities as,

00:23:30 ◼   ► they were just, they just throw commercials.

00:23:33 ◼   ► They weren't the brand ambassador, you know,

00:23:36 ◼   ► like on stage at events.

00:23:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I think that's slightly less bad,

00:23:42 ◼   ► the brand ambassador thing is.

00:23:43 ◼   ► And then the even worse part is director of creative.

00:23:48 ◼   ► - Right, like Alicia Keys for Blackberry, right?

00:23:51 ◼   ► - It's just like, let's just light

00:23:54 ◼   ► a few million dollars on fire.

00:23:56 ◼   ► It doesn't even make any sense though.

00:23:58 ◼   ► I mean, that's the thing.

00:23:59 ◼   ► And they, you know, wasn't she one of the ones too

00:24:03 ◼   ► where it was like she got announced

00:24:04 ◼   ► as their director of creativity.

00:24:06 ◼   ► I mean, as though she had like a serious executive job.

00:24:09 ◼   ► Like the title--

00:24:10 ◼   ► - She's showing up every day and yeah,

00:24:12 ◼   ► she's moving up to Canada.

00:24:15 ◼   ► - And then, you know, wasn't she one of the ones

00:24:17 ◼   ► who somebody got caught?

00:24:18 ◼   ► I try not to link to these things

00:24:20 ◼   ► because it's a little immature.

00:24:22 ◼   ► But you know, that she tweeted something

00:24:24 ◼   ► and the metadata was like Twitter for iPhone.

00:24:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:24:28 ◼   ► - But who believes that?

00:24:29 ◼   ► Like, I just can't imagine the meeting

00:24:32 ◼   ► where they're like, let's have,

00:24:34 ◼   ► let's get somebody like Alicia Keys

00:24:36 ◼   ► to be our creator of, our director of creativity.

00:24:39 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:24:41 ◼   ► - Like, who is it that they think

00:24:42 ◼   ► that actually makes a difference to?

00:24:44 ◼   ► Like, most people are never gonna hear about the news.

00:24:47 ◼   ► No, you know, even BlackBerry customers

00:24:49 ◼   ► are never gonna see anything that says

00:24:51 ◼   ► Alicia Keys has been named the director of creativity.

00:24:54 ◼   ► But even those who do hear it,

00:24:56 ◼   ► who actually would think, well that's a great idea.

00:24:59 ◼   ► Somebody who's never designed a cell phone

00:25:02 ◼   ► or has any kind of understanding of software

00:25:05 ◼   ► or consumer electronics is now the director of creativity

00:25:09 ◼   ► for this brand, that's great.

00:25:10 ◼   ► - There's a whole collection to be made

00:25:14 ◼   ► of really stupid business ideas like that.

00:25:16 ◼   ► And the other thing that always just baffles me

00:25:20 ◼   ► is Wall Street analyst firms,

00:25:22 ◼   ► and I know they do this deliberately

00:25:25 ◼   ► to get headlines about their firm,

00:25:27 ◼   ► just like saying crazy stuff about Apple.

00:25:29 ◼   ► - Right.

00:25:29 ◼   ► - I mean, like, Trip Choudry

00:25:32 ◼   ► is a pretty good example of that.

00:25:34 ◼   ► I mean, the guy actually has like an $800 target on Apple,

00:25:37 ◼   ► and yet he says the company's gonna go out of business

00:25:40 ◼   ► if they don't ship an iWatch in two months.

00:25:42 ◼   ► - I think we're down to like 50 days now.

00:25:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, we're down to, yeah, right.

00:25:45 ◼   ► - It was about 10.

00:25:46 ◼   ► - And if nobody's made a Trip Choudry clock,

00:25:49 ◼   ► then somebody should get on that immediately.

00:25:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it was about 10 days ago.

00:25:54 ◼   ► - I can't even log into my website right now,

00:25:56 ◼   ► so somebody else needs to do it.

00:25:57 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:26:00 ◼   ► - Let me thank our first sponsor.

00:26:01 ◼   ► It's our good friends at Ann Event Apart.

00:26:05 ◼   ► Ann Event Apart is an intensely educational

00:26:08 ◼   ► two-day learning session for passionate practitioners

00:26:11 ◼   ► of standards-based web design.

00:26:14 ◼   ► If you care about code as well as content,

00:26:16 ◼   ► usability as well as design,

00:26:18 ◼   ► An Event Apart is the conference you've been waiting for.

00:26:21 ◼   ► And it's not just a one-time shot.

00:26:23 ◼   ► I always say this, but it's one of the best things

00:26:26 ◼   ► about An Event Apart is that it's like a traveling road show.

00:26:29 ◼   ► Upcoming events.

00:26:32 ◼   ► Seattle is coming up this week, so forget about it.

00:26:36 ◼   ► It's too late.

00:26:37 ◼   ► You've already missed out, probably,

00:26:38 ◼   ► if you're listening to this.

00:26:40 ◼   ► Too bad.

00:26:41 ◼   ► But if you've got tickets, you're in for a great show.

00:26:44 ◼   ► After that, Boston, San Diego, Washington, D.C.,

00:26:48 ◼   ► end of the summer, Chicago, Austin, Texas, beautiful city.

00:26:53 ◼   ► Here's a good one, this one sticks out.

00:26:56 ◼   ► Bring the family, Orlando, Florida in October, October 27th.

00:27:00 ◼   ► - So that's a twofer right there.

00:27:01 ◼   ► - There you go, right?

00:27:03 ◼   ► Take the kids.

00:27:04 ◼   ► And then San Francisco, Filthy Town in November.

00:27:09 ◼   ► So that's a great lineup.

00:27:13 ◼   ► unbelievable number of cities. One of them has got to be close to you if you live

00:27:16 ◼   ► somewhere in the US. Who speaks there? Well it's founded by Eric Meyer, CSS guru

00:27:22 ◼   ► and Jeffrey Zeldman, leaders of the standards base. Remember when

00:27:28 ◼   ► web standards were like a new thing? Yeah, a thing that people

00:27:32 ◼   ► had to felt they had to fight over. Right, and now it's... You know, like you had like

00:27:36 ◼   ► it was like a thing you had to support, like it was a downtrodden, like an

00:27:39 ◼   ► endangered species or something people were putting little beanies on their

00:27:42 ◼   ► Twitter avatars and now it's just like you know you don't do it at your own

00:27:47 ◼   ► peril yeah it's they've actually it seemed like an uphill it seemed like a

00:27:53 ◼   ► what was it would say what's that sort of battle that you're never gonna win

00:27:59 ◼   ► based on the guy who's to push the rock up the hill sis sis sis sis yeah and it's

00:28:05 ◼   ► it's pronounced strangely because you don't it's Sisyphus but you don't say

00:28:09 ◼   ► sisyphus and it's sisyphin. Yeah. So we're in other words,

00:28:13 ◼   ► we're calling Jeffrey Seldman a sissy. But he's a sissy who won

00:28:18 ◼   ► the war. And it's just such great stuff. They have such

00:28:22 ◼   ► great speakers. Where do you go to find out more can't recommend

00:28:26 ◼   ► this conference enough. Go to an event apart.com slash talk show.

00:28:33 ◼   ► And you'll find out you get the exact dates and the prices for

00:28:37 ◼   ► when they're coming near you.

00:28:38 ◼   ► So my thanks to an eventapart,

00:28:40 ◼   ► an eventapart.com/talkshow.

00:28:43 ◼   ► Do you agree with me?

00:28:46 ◼   ► Do you think, I think it goes unremarked upon.

00:28:49 ◼   ► And I know that San Francisco is almost like the epicenter

00:28:53 ◼   ► of a lot of controversies this year

00:28:58 ◼   ► in terms of like the income inequality

00:29:02 ◼   ► and the buses that are taking people to Google

00:29:07 ◼   ► and Apple and stuff like that.

00:29:11 ◼   ► And I can totally see.

00:29:12 ◼   ► I mean, if anybody has ever been to the actual valley,

00:29:17 ◼   ► like where Apple's campus is--

00:29:19 ◼   ► I've never been to Mountain View,

00:29:20 ◼   ► so I don't know exactly what Google's campus is like.

00:29:24 ◼   ► But that whole area, I can totally see,

00:29:25 ◼   ► especially if you're young, either before you have kids,

00:29:31 ◼   ► why you'd want to live in San Francisco rather than live

00:29:33 ◼   ► anywhere down there.

00:29:35 ◼   ► But San Francisco is a weird city.

00:29:39 ◼   ► I wouldn't want to live there.

00:29:41 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:29:42 ◼   ► I wouldn't either.

00:29:43 ◼   ► I mean, I don't like living in the city, city personally.

00:29:47 ◼   ► I mean, we live, you know, Tacoma's not a huge city,

00:29:50 ◼   ► but we live close enough.

00:29:51 ◼   ► I mean, like I could walk to downtown from here

00:29:54 ◼   ► if I really wanted to.

00:29:55 ◼   ► It's kind of a long walk, but so it's nice.

00:29:58 ◼   ► It's nice being close to something, but yeah,

00:30:01 ◼   ► that's too much for me.

00:30:03 ◼   ► And they have a, you know, they have a lot of homeless

00:30:06 ◼   ► and they have, so they have a lot of homeless

00:30:10 ◼   ► and they have a lot of like well-moneyed jerks.

00:30:14 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:30:14 ◼   ► I, and I, you know, I like going there

00:30:19 ◼   ► and for like two, three days and then getting out.

00:30:23 ◼   ► I've always said--

00:30:25 ◼   ► - The food is awesome.

00:30:26 ◼   ► - Oh, it is totally true.

00:30:28 ◼   ► - The food is so good.

00:30:28 ◼   ► I mean, that's the great thing is like, you know,

00:30:30 ◼   ► every time I go down there,

00:30:31 ◼   ► I always get some really good meals.

00:30:33 ◼   ► Right. And all different kinds of stuff too, which is great. We got Thai food,

00:30:37 ◼   ► and they've got some, I know pizza people will roll their eyes at this,

00:30:42 ◼   ► but they've got some good pizza places too. Really? That's new, I think.

00:30:46 ◼   ► Yeah. I mean, they're like guys, and they're mostly people that have come from other places

00:30:50 ◼   ► to come there to bring...

00:30:53 ◼   ► Did you go to that place with Paul, the one that's in the garage?

00:30:56 ◼   ► Yeah. We didn't go this time, but yeah, but we went a couple of years ago.

00:31:02 ◼   ► What's the name of that place?

00:31:03 ◼   ► I forget the name of that place, but it's a guy who came from,

00:31:06 ◼   ► I think he came from New York, right?

00:31:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:08 ◼   ► And they make the dough in the morning,

00:31:11 ◼   ► and then if they run out of dough, too bad.

00:31:14 ◼   ► Sorry, we're out of dough.

00:31:16 ◼   ► You can't have a pizza.

00:31:16 ◼   ► And then when they seat you,

00:31:18 ◼   ► they ask how many pizzas you're gonna get.

00:31:20 ◼   ► Right, it's una pizza napolitana.

00:31:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:25 ◼   ► Una pizza napolitana.

00:31:28 ◼   ► Napolitana.

00:31:29 ◼   ► Napolitana.

00:31:30 ◼   ► It's amazing.

00:31:31 ◼   ► It's really cool.

00:31:32 ◼   ► - And he's back there and they had a kid

00:31:35 ◼   ► and so he's back there with his wife

00:31:37 ◼   ► and the kid was in like a stroller

00:31:41 ◼   ► and he's just like, he's making pizzas with one hand

00:31:43 ◼   ► and he's like pushing the stroller with the other hand,

00:31:45 ◼   ► back and forth with the other hand.

00:31:47 ◼   ► So like his baby was back there.

00:31:49 ◼   ► - I forget who linked to the guy first.

00:31:51 ◼   ► I might've been Gus Mueller

00:31:52 ◼   ► 'cause Gus is sort of a pizza fanatic,

00:31:56 ◼   ► like an amateur pizza connoisseur.

00:32:01 ◼   ► But it was like in New York, this guy, and he had like a very expensive brick oven and

00:32:09 ◼   ► he hated it, wasn't making the pies right.

00:32:13 ◼   ► And so he had to smash out the back of the building and take it out.

00:32:19 ◼   ► And he went to Italy or Sicily, I don't know where he went, somewhere over there, and just

00:32:24 ◼   ► kept looking and looking until he found an oven that he wanted and had it shipped over

00:32:28 ◼   ► to him in Brooklyn and had it put in the back of the building and then sealed the building

00:32:31 ◼   ► back up. And then he decided, "Screw this, I'm moving to San Francisco." But he took

00:32:36 ◼   ► his oven with him. And I think, you know, I'm pretty sure taking a brick oven with

00:32:40 ◼   ► you is expensive, right? But it's like this guy, it's like his, you know, he's sort

00:32:48 ◼   ► of like his TARDIS or something, you know? Like he's the doctor and he's got this

00:32:51 ◼   ► amazing brick oven.

00:32:52 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer** He's got to take it with him.

00:32:53 ◼   ► Right. And then I think it was probably Paul who convinced me to go and we went,

00:33:00 ◼   ► like they open at five. There's like no reservations. It's open at five. They serve

00:33:05 ◼   ► till they run out of dough. And we got there at five and all it was was a closed garage.

00:33:11 ◼   ► There's no sign or anything. And we're like, "This cannot be the place." And then like 5-0-1,

00:33:15 ◼   ► the garage door goes up and inside there's a restaurant.

00:33:21 ◼   ► It was also the place where I slammed Paul's hand in the cab door.

00:33:24 ◼   ► So we get there, we get out of the cab, and I just, you know, I'm not even like looking. I just go,

00:33:33 ◼   ► because he was in the back and I was in the front, and I just go to slam the car door. And he went

00:33:40 ◼   ► into, he was paying the cabbie. And so he leaned back in and he put his hand around the outside of

00:33:45 ◼   ► the thing and I just nailed him.

00:33:47 ◼   ► Was he alright?

00:33:49 ◼   ► Yeah he's fine.

00:33:51 ◼   ► That was a couple years ago.

00:33:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:53 ◼   ► I'm sure he's fine by now.

00:33:55 ◼   ► I haven't noticed any adverse effects.

00:33:56 ◼   ► No audio hijack still works.

00:33:58 ◼   ► So it's.

00:33:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:00 ◼   ► Um anything else from macro anything?

00:34:03 ◼   ► Any little uh any other little uh well yeah.

00:34:06 ◼   ► Oh so like um are good pals at um busy Mac.

00:34:12 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:34:13 ◼   ► They came out with a with a busy contacts.

00:34:15 ◼   ► Right, which is pretty cool.

00:34:17 ◼   ► Yeah, I saw that announcement.

00:34:20 ◼   ► If you don't like Apple's context, which was might be

00:34:24 ◼   ► understandable.

00:34:25 ◼   ► Um, they're the makers of busy cow, busy cow, which is quite

00:34:31 ◼   ► good too.

00:34:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:32 ◼   ► So that was that was good.

00:34:34 ◼   ► There were a few things.

00:34:34 ◼   ► I mean, there were a few things that I saw that were kind of

00:34:36 ◼   ► cool.

00:34:36 ◼   ► There's also like trigger, which is this.

00:34:38 ◼   ► It's a it's like a candle of a gun that you put your iPhone on

00:34:43 ◼   ► to take pictures with.

00:34:44 ◼   ► But they also it's a Bluetooth device that lets you.

00:34:50 ◼   ► Connect so you can use the buttons on the handle to so that the iPhone sits on the top.

00:34:57 ◼   ► But they also have an API. It's like theoretically somebody could make like a first person shooter or something with it, which would be kind of cool.

00:35:05 ◼   ► Oh, weird. It actually looks like a gun. OK. I mean, I don't think anybody has yet.

00:35:11 ◼   ► And it's still like a hundred, it's still a hundred dollars.

00:35:14 ◼   ► So it's still faces the same problem that the controllers

00:35:19 ◼   ► that people have made for iOS face,

00:35:21 ◼   ► that they're kind of too expensive.

00:35:24 ◼   ► And you just bought an iPhone,

00:35:25 ◼   ► you don't wanna run out and buy another $100 device to,

00:35:29 ◼   ► I think the prices have come down a little bit

00:35:30 ◼   ► since they first came out.

00:35:32 ◼   ► But such a problem, they're not all a hundred bucks now,

00:35:34 ◼   ► but still they're still kind of pricey.

00:35:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, 180 bucks for a--

00:35:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean like you buy one for a Xbox

00:35:40 ◼   ► or a Wii is like 24 bucks.

00:35:42 ◼   ► You know, you still don't wanna spend $80.

00:35:44 ◼   ► - That's a pretty cool idea though.

00:35:46 ◼   ► So for, to use it as a camera,

00:35:49 ◼   ► do you have to use like a third party app

00:35:51 ◼   ► to take the pictures or is there some way that,

00:35:54 ◼   ► is there like an API that you could use to--

00:35:56 ◼   ► - I think it's their app.

00:35:57 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:35:58 ◼   ► - I think you use their app, yeah.

00:35:59 ◼   ► - 'Cause I didn't think that there was a way

00:36:00 ◼   ► to get the built-in camera app to--

00:36:02 ◼   ► - Right, to do it through Bluetooth, yeah.

00:36:07 ◼   ► And I bought, I don't know, I bought a couple little things.

00:36:10 ◼   ► I bought just like a Bluetooth waterproof speaker

00:36:14 ◼   ► for the shower.

00:36:15 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:36:16 ◼   ► I was just like, hey, yeah, okay.

00:36:19 ◼   ► I can listen to my music in the shower.

00:36:22 ◼   ► And then I got my son. - Have you used it yet?

00:36:26 ◼   ► - No, I just, no, not yet.

00:36:28 ◼   ► - So you haven't showered today?

00:36:30 ◼   ► - I have, no, I did shower, I just didn't use the,

00:36:33 ◼   ► I forgot the speaker.

00:36:34 ◼   ► It's a, you know, it's a whole,

00:36:36 ◼   ► You gotta get into the groove.

00:36:38 ◼   ► Change, it's a process change.

00:36:39 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:36:40 ◼   ► - I haven't changed my process yet.

00:36:42 ◼   ► And there was this, like way off to the corner,

00:36:47 ◼   ► there was this booth with all these people in it

00:36:50 ◼   ► with red shirts on that said Japan.

00:36:57 ◼   ► - That's it?

00:36:58 ◼   ► - That's it.

00:36:58 ◼   ► And they had a bunch of different stuff in it.

00:37:03 ◼   ► And so I finally figured,

00:37:04 ◼   ► I figured this out after the fact.

00:37:05 ◼   ► I thought it was like one company,

00:37:07 ◼   ► but I guess this is like an import company that was sourcing

00:37:10 ◼   ► stuff from different vendors.

00:37:12 ◼   ► But they had these battery charges,

00:37:14 ◼   ► like a portable battery thing, that

00:37:16 ◼   ► were better priced than some of the other ones

00:37:20 ◼   ► that I had seen in other booths.

00:37:22 ◼   ► And it was this--

00:37:24 ◼   ► I got one for my son.

00:37:26 ◼   ► It's a Japanese manga character called--

00:37:29 ◼   ► what the heck is it called?

00:37:33 ◼   ► Dan?

00:37:34 ◼   ► Now I can't remember, but it's the company's name is Cheero.

00:37:39 ◼   ► Okay.

00:37:40 ◼   ► I'll look it up.

00:37:42 ◼   ► And I think they've just licensed this Dan board and it looks like this little cardboard

00:37:50 ◼   ► guy and so it's the cardboard guy's head and you plug it, it's a box and you plug it in

00:37:55 ◼   ► and it charges up and then you can charge your iPad or your iPhone with it.

00:37:59 ◼   ► And when it starts running down, his eyes blink red like he's angry.

00:38:06 ◼   ► It's kind of cool, and it was better priced than some of the other ones.

00:38:11 ◼   ► At the same booth, which I at first thought was also Chiro, but I guess it was somebody

00:38:17 ◼   ► else, they had these milled aluminum iPhone bumpers.

00:38:23 ◼   ► And at first I was kind of like, "I don't want to look at that."

00:38:26 ◼   ► and the guy had me hold it 'cause they were also

00:38:29 ◼   ► like 120 bucks.

00:38:30 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:38:31 ◼   ► - The guy had me hold it and it was felt really,

00:38:33 ◼   ► really good and it's like it's all cut out of one piece

00:38:38 ◼   ► of aluminum.

00:38:39 ◼   ► It's like so if you were like looking for a really fine

00:38:42 ◼   ► bumper for your iPhone, those would be pretty good

00:38:45 ◼   ► but I can't remember the name of the company

00:38:46 ◼   ► that actually makes, I didn't get the name of the company

00:38:48 ◼   ► that actually makes that.

00:38:49 ◼   ► - Wait, but it's an aluminum bumper for the iPhone?

00:38:52 ◼   ► - It's aluminum bumper, yeah.

00:38:54 ◼   ► - I don't know, wouldn't that scratch it all up

00:38:56 ◼   ► when you put it in or is it like rubber?

00:38:57 ◼   ► - No, it's good, no, it's got the insides,

00:38:59 ◼   ► the insides soft.

00:39:00 ◼   ► And I talked to, I think I just talked to Dan Frakes

00:39:05 ◼   ► from Macworld about it and he was like,

00:39:06 ◼   ► oh yeah, that thing is really nice

00:39:07 ◼   ► 'cause I think he got one for,

00:39:09 ◼   ► as a freebie for a review unit or something like that, so.

00:39:14 ◼   ► - All right, I've got the Chiro thing here in the show.

00:39:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, I got the Chiro thing and that bumper's,

00:39:17 ◼   ► the damn bumper's not on there, so.

00:39:19 ◼   ► And the company that--

00:39:21 ◼   ► - But it was the same company?

00:39:22 ◼   ► - No, it's not, it's,

00:39:24 ◼   ► that are all Japanese, they're all Japanese.

00:39:27 ◼   ► - Right.

00:39:27 ◼   ► - Everything through that booth

00:39:29 ◼   ► was sold through an import company.

00:39:31 ◼   ► - Gotcha.

00:39:32 ◼   ► - And the import company, their receipt

00:39:36 ◼   ► is just like America support.

00:39:40 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:39:42 ◼   ► Their name is sadly targeted

00:39:46 ◼   ► towards the Japanese side of things

00:39:48 ◼   ► rather than the people they're selling to.

00:39:51 ◼   ► - It's a super powerful charger.

00:39:52 ◼   ► It's 10,000 mega amps.

00:39:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, I got the 6,000 one, but yeah,

00:40:00 ◼   ► but there's another one.

00:40:01 ◼   ► They had all different sizes.

00:40:03 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:40:04 ◼   ► - So some of those were,

00:40:05 ◼   ► they were, you know, it's kind of funny,

00:40:06 ◼   ► like, and then it's,

00:40:08 ◼   ► you look at the one he had before,

00:40:09 ◼   ► was much less powerful,

00:40:10 ◼   ► and also just looked like a black tube.

00:40:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, I like buying the,

00:40:16 ◼   ► just the little power brick type chargers.

00:40:18 ◼   ► Even though it's sort of a pain in the ass,

00:40:20 ◼   ► you have to bring a cable,

00:40:21 ◼   ► and it's the extra pain in the ass you have to have a second cable to charge the charger

00:40:26 ◼   ► because it doesn't use lightning.

00:40:27 ◼   ► But to me it's better.

00:40:28 ◼   ► But they all use the same and I've got a, now I've got a bunch of devices that use that

00:40:31 ◼   ► same USB mini adapter anyway so I just take one.

00:40:35 ◼   ► Right USB mini in your suitcase.

00:40:37 ◼   ► But then you can charge anything with it.

00:40:39 ◼   ► You can charge an iPad with it.

00:40:40 ◼   ► You can charge, you know, if you have like, you know, like, you know, if somebody else

00:40:47 ◼   ► in your family or kid or your wife has an older iPhone, you know, when you have the

00:40:51 ◼   ► case you've only got like two years of iPhones that fit it and then it's you

00:40:56 ◼   ► know you might as well throw it out right or as you get these bricks you can

00:41:00 ◼   ► use it for anything you can use it forever really and then the other one

00:41:05 ◼   ► Akideo so it seems like the the Thunder like last year Thunderbolt stuff was

00:41:11 ◼   ► still kind of Akideo how do you spell that was a a K I T I O so it seemed like

00:41:19 ◼   ► the Thunderbolt stuff this year was a little bit more mature. A little bit more to see

00:41:26 ◼   ► and they have a RAID Thunderbolt device that's like a 256 gigabyte flash based drive for

00:41:42 ◼   ► like 400 bucks.

00:41:44 ◼   ► Cool.

00:41:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:46 ◼   ► So that seems like, so that's one of the things you noticed this year though is that Thunderbolt

00:41:49 ◼   ► is sort of yeah it seemed like there was a little bit more maturity in the

00:41:52 ◼   ► Thunderbolt offerings there this year yeah I remember last year there was

00:41:55 ◼   ► almost nothing yeah seem like all the drives were still USB firewire or

00:42:00 ◼   ► something right right firewires going out right I mean it's like yeah there's

00:42:05 ◼   ► nothing I mean I think I don't think you can buy a computer with Thunderbolt or

00:42:10 ◼   ► a firewire anymore oh no they still have I mean I think the um am I wrong yeah

00:42:16 ◼   ► yeah well making up I think the IMAX I think the IMAX still have an 800 port or

00:42:22 ◼   ► one 800 port maybe they don't the minis do don't they let's see my sister-in-law

00:42:33 ◼   ► just was shopping for a new MacBook and was shocked that that like the heirs and

00:42:40 ◼   ► the new MacBook Pros don't come with like a disk drive for movies.

00:42:49 ◼   ► Which is funny because to me that's such old news like I'm way past it but you know I guess

00:42:53 ◼   ► she still expected like that you know she has like DVDs at home that she could watch

00:42:58 ◼   ► DVDs on her computer.

00:43:00 ◼   ► I was like wow that's like putting a floppy in.

00:43:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:05 ◼   ► I still yeah every once in a while I still do but not that's just.

00:43:09 ◼   ► It's not really something I need that much anymore.

00:43:12 ◼   ► Anything else what else from the show?

00:43:15 ◼   ► Do you buy anything else?

00:43:16 ◼   ► I decided a car mount thing but that's just like one of the magnetic things.

00:43:23 ◼   ► You put a thing on your dashboard and then you stick something else to your

00:43:27 ◼   ► iPhone case because I'm not sticking to the back of my iPhone.

00:43:31 ◼   ► And then you can just slap it on there

00:43:34 ◼   ► when you get in the car.

00:43:36 ◼   ► - Right.

00:43:37 ◼   ► - Cloak was the other thing I thought was kind of cool.

00:43:41 ◼   ► Which is the VPN.

00:43:44 ◼   ► - I'm not familiar with it.

00:43:46 ◼   ► I know what a VPN is, but.

00:43:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, so it's, and it's for your iPhone.

00:43:52 ◼   ► Let's see.

00:43:53 ◼   ► Let me find it, see if I can find a good description of it.

00:43:57 ◼   ► - Looks like they're at www.

00:44:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, so you can set up which networks you trust,

00:44:05 ◼   ► and then when you get into a network that you don't trust,

00:44:10 ◼   ► it'll create a VPN for you,

00:44:13 ◼   ► so that you can still connect to the internet

00:44:16 ◼   ► without using their,

00:44:21 ◼   ► without using their Wi-Fi openly.

00:44:23 ◼   ► - Gotcha, gotcha.

00:44:24 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:44:25 ◼   ► - That's pretty cool.

00:44:26 ◼   ► Yeah, I see their website's at www.getcloak.com.

00:44:30 ◼   ► There we go.

00:44:31 ◼   ► Cloak VPN.

00:44:32 ◼   ► I'm also looking here at the current iMac tech specs.

00:44:37 ◼   ► And the ports on the back are, there's no FireWire.

00:44:40 ◼   ► It's-- - No FireWire, okay.

00:44:40 ◼   ► - Headphone, the SD card slot,

00:44:43 ◼   ► four USB 3 ports, two thunderbolts,

00:44:48 ◼   ► and one gigabit ethernet.

00:44:51 ◼   ► So no, if you buy like a new iMac today,

00:44:53 ◼   ► you do not get FireWire.

00:44:54 ◼   ► So I will collect my being right point from you.

00:44:58 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:45:00 ◼   ► - Congratulations.

00:45:02 ◼   ► - I have a pretty, I really should do more like "Syracusa"

00:45:07 ◼   ► and do some corrections up front.

00:45:10 ◼   ► 'Cause I've gotten a lot of compliments

00:45:13 ◼   ► that people are saying that the show's going well,

00:45:15 ◼   ► they're really enjoying it lately.

00:45:16 ◼   ► But anytime, I have a terrible record

00:45:19 ◼   ► the last couple of months of anytime

00:45:21 ◼   ► that I offer any fact without having

00:45:25 ◼   ► the actual documentation in front of me,

00:45:27 ◼   ► It is wrong in some way.

00:45:30 ◼   ► - There is still a Fireware 800 port in the Mini.

00:45:33 ◼   ► - Hmm, that's because the Mini hasn't been updated

00:45:35 ◼   ► in forever, right?

00:45:37 ◼   ► - That'll probably go away the next,

00:45:39 ◼   ► which will be...

00:45:43 ◼   ► - Where's the MacRumorsBuying guy?

00:45:45 ◼   ► Let's go there, 'cause they always,

00:45:47 ◼   ► they'll tell you. - It's gotta be, yeah.

00:45:48 ◼   ► - MacRumorsBuying guy will tell you.

00:45:49 ◼   ► - Do not buy.

00:45:50 ◼   ► - Let's see.

00:45:52 ◼   ► I don't even see where it's listed.

00:45:56 ◼   ► - Oh, there it is.

00:45:57 ◼   ► Don't buy.

00:45:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm sure.

00:46:00 ◼   ► There's no way.

00:46:01 ◼   ► - Let's see how old it is.

00:46:02 ◼   ► Right now, it's 523 days old.

00:46:05 ◼   ► It's crazy.

00:46:07 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:46:08 ◼   ► So-- - Yeah, I mean,

00:46:10 ◼   ► 'cause you used to be,

00:46:11 ◼   ► I mean, it used to be that the rule of thumb

00:46:11 ◼   ► was like, you wait six months.

00:46:13 ◼   ► Don't, I mean, if you're under six months,

00:46:16 ◼   ► you could probably go ahead and buy.

00:46:18 ◼   ► But if it gets over six months,

00:46:20 ◼   ► hey, you might wanna wait,

00:46:21 ◼   ► 'cause, you know, six to nine months,

00:46:23 ◼   ► it should get updated.

00:46:26 ◼   ► but that's clearly not what's done anymore.

00:46:27 ◼   ► - So the last couple of revisions of the Mac Mini,

00:46:31 ◼   ► the one before that was around 461 days

00:46:34 ◼   ► and the one before that was 400 days.

00:46:36 ◼   ► So they don't really update it that frequently.

00:46:41 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:46:41 ◼   ► - But now at 523 days seems like.

00:46:44 ◼   ► - That's a long time.

00:46:45 ◼   ► - Every once in a while people,

00:46:49 ◼   ► I always just send them to the MacRumorsBuyers guy

00:46:51 ◼   ► 'cause I'm no expert, but people, you know,

00:46:54 ◼   ► Well, you write during Fireball,

00:46:55 ◼   ► you must know when I should buy a computer.

00:46:58 ◼   ► And I'm terrible at that, I really am.

00:46:59 ◼   ► My advice is always-- - Oh yeah,

00:47:01 ◼   ► I was always the worst.

00:47:03 ◼   ► I would buy one two weeks before the new ones came out.

00:47:05 ◼   ► - Right, either if you need one right now, just buy one.

00:47:07 ◼   ► And if it gets obsoleted in the next couple of weeks,

00:47:11 ◼   ► well, that's life.

00:47:13 ◼   ► If you can wait, wait till a new one comes out

00:47:16 ◼   ► and buy it as soon as it comes out, is what I always say.

00:47:19 ◼   ► If you're the type of person who's bothered by it.

00:47:22 ◼   ► - Although every once in a while,

00:47:23 ◼   ► it's like if they change the configuration

00:47:26 ◼   ► or the form factor in a massive way,

00:47:30 ◼   ► I always think, yeah, maybe it's not good

00:47:32 ◼   ► to get the first version of that.

00:47:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's reasonable advice too.

00:47:37 ◼   ► 'Cause especially with stuff,

00:47:40 ◼   ► there were a lot of issues with the first couple of months

00:47:44 ◼   ► worth of the retina MacBook Pros

00:47:46 ◼   ► where people were getting, you know,

00:47:48 ◼   ► and if you go to, I forget how you go,

00:47:52 ◼   ► but you could check your serial number

00:47:53 ◼   ► and you'd know whether you had a screen from Sharp

00:47:56 ◼   ► or from Samsung or something like that.

00:47:58 ◼   ► And it was like all the screens from Sharp

00:48:00 ◼   ► were showing like, had like image retention problems

00:48:02 ◼   ► or something.

00:48:03 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:48:04 ◼   ► - And that's the sort of thing that if you,

00:48:05 ◼   ► if the kinks get worked out eventually,

00:48:07 ◼   ► but it may actually be worth it to buy like six months

00:48:11 ◼   ► after it comes out instead of immediately

00:48:13 ◼   ► after it comes out.

00:48:14 ◼   ► - Right.

00:48:15 ◼   ► Or by the second iteration.

00:48:18 ◼   ► - Yeah.

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00:50:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:50:37 ◼   ► - Well, I wasn't gonna talk baseball.

00:50:40 ◼   ► It's I guess the season starts this week though. Yeah, yeah, I wasn't going to talk base. There was a there was a

00:50:46 ◼   ► San francisco. There's a giant sexposition game on

00:50:49 ◼   ► Home game on friday night when we were there. Did you go I did not we were some of the people were talking about going

00:50:55 ◼   ► But then we ended up

00:50:57 ◼   ► Deciding to just i'm sure straight to the bar instead and did paul tell you the story about the yeah. Well, I was there

00:51:03 ◼   ► That time were you with us? Were you out with us? Yeah. Yeah paul hates that story

00:51:09 ◼   ► I feel like he loves to tell it he does but I feel like he's the guy like for

00:51:12 ◼   ► most of us it's like oh man imagine the luck and with Paul it's like it's the

00:51:18 ◼   ► white whale that he's chasing the rest of his life right long story short it

00:51:22 ◼   ► was like that it was WWDC yeah I think yeah it had to be two years ago and our

00:51:28 ◼   ► friend Jason Snell editorial director at at Macworld they had a little you know

00:51:34 ◼   ► like a little five o'clock meet-and-greet like a friends of Macworld

00:51:37 ◼   ► well it wasn't really a party it was like a like a cocktail reception I don't

00:51:42 ◼   ► know what you call it yeah reception reception it was very nice rooftop of

00:51:46 ◼   ► Macworld's building beautiful scenario but they had a lot of work to do I guess

00:51:53 ◼   ► because of you know WWDC week and there was all sorts of editorial content Snell

00:51:58 ◼   ► had a couple of tickets to the Giants game and he couldn't use him and he was

00:52:02 ◼   ► trying to give him away and Paul and I thought about taking him in fact Paul

00:52:05 ◼   ► Paul even had them in his hand.

00:52:07 ◼   ► And we were going to go to the game.

00:52:09 ◼   ► And I decided not to go because my wife didn't want to go.

00:52:12 ◼   ► And my wife was there.

00:52:14 ◼   ► And I thought, you know what?

00:52:14 ◼   ► I don't want to--

00:52:15 ◼   ► I came out here with her.

00:52:16 ◼   ► I'll stick with her.

00:52:17 ◼   ► I'll skip the--

00:52:18 ◼   ► I don't want to go to the ball game.

00:52:19 ◼   ► I'll go wherever she's going.

00:52:20 ◼   ► And then, I don't know, Paul--

00:52:21 ◼   ► I don't know if he couldn't find anybody else to go with him.

00:52:24 ◼   ► But we were like-- gave him back to Jason.

00:52:25 ◼   ► We went to dinner at--

00:52:27 ◼   ► I forget the name of that place.

00:52:28 ◼   ► Something-- it was a tequila-type Mexican place

00:52:32 ◼   ► near the ballpark.

00:52:34 ◼   ► And the guys at the bar were really, really--

00:52:39 ◼   ► or the game was on, and they were really rowdy.

00:52:42 ◼   ► And it didn't make any sense, because the Giants were up like 3-0.

00:52:45 ◼   ► And then the guy caught a fly ball, and the bar went nuts.

00:52:48 ◼   ► And I just looked at Paul.

00:52:50 ◼   ► I was like, there's no way that catching a fly ball makes the bar go nuts

00:52:53 ◼   ► unless--

00:52:54 ◼   ► and we both look at each other.

00:52:56 ◼   ► It's a no-hitter.

00:52:58 ◼   ► And then we immediately went over and it ends up

00:53:00 ◼   ► it was a perfect game, right?

00:53:01 ◼   ► It was a perfect game.

00:53:02 ◼   ► Well, yeah, we kept, and then we kept,

00:53:04 ◼   ► we went someplace else, and we walked down the street.

00:53:07 ◼   ► Every bar that we were passing,

00:53:09 ◼   ► we kept like ducking in to look at the baseball game,

00:53:11 ◼   ► 'cause it was on all the TV screens

00:53:14 ◼   ► that pretty much crossed town.

00:53:15 ◼   ► - Right, Matt Cain pitched a perfect game,

00:53:18 ◼   ► and we had tickets in our hand.

00:53:19 ◼   ► - Right.

00:53:20 ◼   ► - And then the next day, Paul and I went to,

00:53:24 ◼   ► we had lunch with some of our friends

00:53:26 ◼   ► who work on the MLB app, MLB at bat app.

00:53:31 ◼   ► And we started, we were like, you know,

00:53:35 ◼   ► of course we were talking about the perfect game,

00:53:36 ◼   ► and Paul was like, you know, we had tickets in our hand.

00:53:38 ◼   ► And the MLB guy's like, oh, we were there.

00:53:41 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:53:42 ◼   ► - Of course they were. - Right.

00:53:44 ◼   ► They just get, they have a cool deal

00:53:47 ◼   ► where they can pretty much just walk,

00:53:49 ◼   ► there's like an entrance, you know,

00:53:50 ◼   ► like some kind of VIP entrance,

00:53:51 ◼   ► and they've got like a badge,

00:53:53 ◼   ► and they can just, any time they're in any town,

00:53:55 ◼   ► they can just kinda walk into a ball game.

00:53:56 ◼   ► Which is kinda awesome. - That's the thing, man,

00:53:58 ◼   ► that's the thing to do, is to, you know,

00:53:59 ◼   ► get into the thing that you like.

00:54:03 ◼   ► And I think about this and that's a perfect example.

00:54:05 ◼   ► Another example for me is like the people who work

00:54:09 ◼   ► on ComiXology, which is the comics app.

00:54:13 ◼   ► It's like you know how to code, you know how to design

00:54:15 ◼   ► and you make yourself a comic selling app

00:54:19 ◼   ► and it becomes a huge hit that is actually the backend

00:54:21 ◼   ► for both of Marvel and DC's own apps.

00:54:26 ◼   ► It's the same, it's just a rebranding of the Comixology app.

00:54:30 ◼   ► And then, and I just wrote an article for the magazine

00:54:32 ◼   ► about these guys who are doing Minecraft YouTube videos.

00:54:37 ◼   ► - I saw that on your website, I was gonna,

00:54:39 ◼   ► let's talk about it.

00:54:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, so there's all these,

00:54:44 ◼   ► my son's been playing Minecraft for like a year and a half,

00:54:48 ◼   ► more than, a little more than a year and a half probably now.

00:54:50 ◼   ► And-- - And how old is Hank?

00:54:51 ◼   ► - He's 10. - All right.

00:54:52 ◼   ► Same age as Jonas. - Yeah.

00:54:55 ◼   ► And pretty soon, I don't know if there's some sort of noise

00:55:00 ◼   ► that goes out that adults can't hear,

00:55:02 ◼   ► or how the kids find out about going to YouTube.

00:55:05 ◼   ► I guess they'd start searching Google

00:55:07 ◼   ► to try and figure out different things to do with Minecraft.

00:55:09 ◼   ► And they come up, and almost all this stuff

00:55:11 ◼   ► is done in YouTube videos, which originally just drove me

00:55:15 ◼   ► absolutely berserk.

00:55:16 ◼   ► Because every time I was trying to help him with something,

00:55:17 ◼   ► I wanted something that was just like a text doc,

00:55:20 ◼   ► a page that would tell me what to do.

00:55:23 ◼   ► But they're all YouTube videos.

00:55:25 ◼   ► And so you have to watch a YouTube video

00:55:27 ◼   ► to figure out how to do this stuff.

00:55:28 ◼   ► But the people that make these,

00:55:30 ◼   ► because of the incredible success of Minecraft,

00:55:35 ◼   ► the people who make these videos,

00:55:37 ◼   ► a lot of these people have done incredibly well as well.

00:55:39 ◼   ► And some of them are just like

00:55:41 ◼   ► videos of these guys playing the game.

00:55:43 ◼   ► - Right.

00:55:44 ◼   ► - And just having a good time.

00:55:45 ◼   ► I mean, this one guy, Joseph Garrett,

00:55:49 ◼   ► who lives in the UK,

00:55:52 ◼   ► has two, he just passed two million subscribers on YouTube

00:55:57 ◼   ► and has, I believe, over 800 million views of his videos.

00:56:02 ◼   ► - Isn't he the guy, he goes by like a--

00:56:04 ◼   ► - Stampy. - Stampy, right.

00:56:06 ◼   ► And I remember reading about him somewhere

00:56:08 ◼   ► and I just said, "Hey, Jonas, have you ever heard

00:56:09 ◼   ► "of this guy Stampy?"

00:56:10 ◼   ► And he was like, "Of course."

00:56:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, good Stampy, yeah, everybody knows Stampy.

00:56:15 ◼   ► - He acted as though I said,

00:56:16 ◼   ► "Have you ever heard of this guy, President Barack Obama?"

00:56:19 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:56:20 ◼   ► He was like, oh yeah, Stampy, he's pretty good.

00:56:24 ◼   ► And he-- so the Daily Mail tried to figure out

00:56:30 ◼   ► how much this guy was making.

00:56:32 ◼   ► Because Google pays you--

00:56:34 ◼   ► you can make something like $7--

00:56:37 ◼   ► that's like an average for $7 per 1,000 views.

00:56:43 ◼   ► And at 800 million views, that starts adding up.

00:56:48 ◼   ► So the Daily Mail tried to figure out what he was making.

00:56:51 ◼   ► They think he makes between something like $80,000

00:56:54 ◼   ► and $800,000 a month.

00:56:57 ◼   ► Somewhere between.

00:56:58 ◼   ► Grosses.

00:56:59 ◼   ► Grosses that.

00:56:59 ◼   ► And then Google takes like half of it,

00:57:01 ◼   ► and then he works with a network that does promotion

00:57:04 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:57:04 ◼   ► And they take a cut too.

00:57:05 ◼   ► So he's not pulling in that much,

00:57:07 ◼   ► but his channel could be grossing anywhere between $80,000

00:57:13 ◼   ► and $800,000 a month.

00:57:14 ◼   ► Right, and if it's at the high end of that,

00:57:17 ◼   ► Even if he's only keeping a quarter of it, I mean, that's really, really good money.

00:57:21 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:57:22 ◼   ► So, and he's not the – I mean, there's a relatively small list of people who are

00:57:28 ◼   ► at the top of that game, but they're all doing pretty well.

00:57:33 ◼   ► It is, but it's – and it's an amazing phenomenon, and it really is – it's inevitable,

00:57:40 ◼   ► as we rocket towards old age, that there's going to be something that the damn kids are

00:57:44 ◼   ► into that you just don't get. It's like Steve Allen on The Tonight Show making fun of rock

00:57:52 ◼   ► and roll lyrics, right? And it's like, I don't wanna be that guy. I don't wanna be Steve Allen

00:57:57 ◼   ► making fun of the rock and roll lyrics. I wanna keep an open mind. I don't think I'm ever gonna

00:58:01 ◼   ► watch these videos myself, but I do wanna keep an open mind. The thing that gets me with Jonas is,

00:58:07 ◼   ► Two things that get me is one, he'll watch the videos while he's playing.

00:58:12 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:12 ◼   ► So he's got Minecraft running on his MacBook, and he's playing while he's watching videos

00:58:22 ◼   ► on either an iPad or his iPhone.

00:58:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:26 ◼   ► And he's doing both.

00:58:26 ◼   ► Hank does exactly the same thing.

00:58:28 ◼   ► And he, a lot of times he'll just put one earbud in.

00:58:36 ◼   ► And then sometimes he just breaks out in the most riotous laughter. I mean, just like nothing else

00:58:43 ◼   ► ever makes him laugh like that. Ever. It is... And it makes me jealous. It's the type of laughter

00:58:49 ◼   ► where it's like, I need to know what's that funny. And...

00:58:53 ◼   ► I watched... So I sat down with... I guess I had never watched one of them through myself. I just,

00:58:59 ◼   ► you know, had seen him over Hank's shoulder. And I watched one of these ones where it was just like,

00:59:03 ◼   ► It was Stampy and a couple of his friends and they're playing this like Hunger Games

00:59:06 ◼   ► online Hunger Games version of Minecraft where you know you go around and and

00:59:11 ◼   ► You know eventually the goal is basically to kill

00:59:14 ◼   ► everybody else and

00:59:17 ◼   ► And it's him and two of his friends and then all these other people that they don't know and and they you know and like

00:59:23 ◼   ► The Hunger Games they work together

00:59:25 ◼   ► As a pack for a while and then it gets down to the end and they have to kill each other

00:59:30 ◼   ► And it was just in it and it was weirdly

00:59:32 ◼   ► Kind of infectious to me just like because they were having such a good time just watching them

00:59:38 ◼   ► But you know by the I thought maybe I like I'll turn it off after a few minutes

00:59:42 ◼   ► But it was like it's like 20 minutes to a half an hour. I watched the whole thing. I

00:59:45 ◼   ► Mean, I haven't gone back to watch any of them since then but still it's like it's kind of

00:59:49 ◼   ► It is kind of enjoyable just watching somebody have a good time. Yeah, and that's what I guess that's what it's about

00:59:55 ◼   ► Have you seen the guy I forget his name, but he's a guy who?

00:59:59 ◼   ► who is every day he plays some Minecraft and records it and he narrates, he just talks

01:00:08 ◼   ► into a microphone and he's trying to get to the end of the world.

01:00:13 ◼   ► Oh yeah, yeah. I didn't mention that, I forgot, I forgot to, I should put that guy in the

01:00:17 ◼   ► article, I forgot to mention him but yeah he's just, there's a, so there's a, there's

01:00:21 ◼   ► a upper limit to how big a world Minecraft can make. But it's huge.

01:00:28 ◼   ► And he's been playing--

01:00:29 ◼   ► - And it used to, when Mind

01:00:40 ◼   ► do this for like 22 years.

01:00:44 ◼   ► And but there's also like a bug where it like increasingly like the further he goes he's

01:00:51 ◼   ► gonna see more glitches happening.

01:00:53 ◼   ► Yeah yeah yeah.

01:00:54 ◼   ► And his his his avatar in the game has like a wolf who follows him around he's got like a like

01:01:04 ◼   ► pet dog. Yep. And I don't know and it's just fascinating to me and so he that's

01:01:11 ◼   ► what he does is every day he just hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of

01:01:15 ◼   ► hours of him just heading I don't know if he's going north walking yeah just

01:01:18 ◼   ► going in the same direction right and just talking you know about random stuff

01:01:24 ◼   ► and you know and when the game gets interesting when he's like attacked or

01:01:28 ◼   ► something like that you know he'll narrate his his action and he's got

01:01:33 ◼   ► tens and maybe even millions, I don't know, of followers.

01:01:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, he probably does.

01:01:37 ◼   ► And he's probably, it's probably gotta be

01:01:38 ◼   ► in the millions by now.

01:01:40 ◼   ► 'Cause he's been featured in a few things, so yeah.

01:01:44 ◼   ► - So to me, it speaks to two things.

01:01:46 ◼   ► It's this, and that's what, you know,

01:01:49 ◼   ► I'll put a link to your attention mining article

01:01:51 ◼   ► and the thing, I think it's well worth reading.

01:01:53 ◼   ► But to me, it's this intersection of A, Minecraft,

01:01:56 ◼   ► which is genuine phenomenon.

01:01:58 ◼   ► And I think it's an unbelievable game.

01:02:01 ◼   ► I don't play it, but I know enough from watching Jonas

01:02:04 ◼   ► that I think it's--

01:02:05 ◼   ► - I play it a lot with Hank.

01:02:06 ◼   ► I mean, I've got a server we run at home,

01:02:09 ◼   ► and so he'll say, "Hey, come on, play with me."

01:02:11 ◼   ► And so we play on the server, and it's fun.

01:02:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, but it's more than, you know,

01:02:18 ◼   ► because you actually do build things, it to me is--

01:02:20 ◼   ► - It's really creative.

01:02:21 ◼   ► - It really is.

01:02:22 ◼   ► It's not just, you know, like when we were kids,

01:02:25 ◼   ► and it'd be like, "Come on, Mom, buy me a computer.

01:02:27 ◼   ► "I'll use it for learning."

01:02:30 ◼   ► Yeah. And the other day we--

01:02:32 ◼   ► And learning was learning to memorize the maps in Bard's Tale.

01:02:36 ◼   ► Yeah. Yeah, right. The other day he had--

01:02:42 ◼   ► and this was-- so there are all these modifications that you can install.

01:02:45 ◼   ► And he had read about this one-- or probably not read about it.

01:02:48 ◼   ► I'm sure he had seen a video about it. So he got the mod and he installed the mod himself.

01:02:52 ◼   ► So that's the other thing. He's learning about, like, how to install all this stuff

01:02:55 ◼   ► and learning about the back end and what goes where.

01:02:59 ◼   ► And so he knows how to do all this stuff in the Finder.

01:03:02 ◼   ► And I don't think he-- they've changed it since the last year

01:03:07 ◼   ► or so.

01:03:08 ◼   ► So you used to have to unpack jar files, and then move files

01:03:11 ◼   ► in, and then recompress the jar file and put it back.

01:03:15 ◼   ► And I think it's much less difficult than that

01:03:17 ◼   ► now, because they changed the infrastructure a little bit.

01:03:20 ◼   ► But it's all Java, which is ridiculous.

01:03:22 ◼   ► I mean, if you had told me that I'd be playing a Java game,

01:03:26 ◼   ► never would have believed you.

01:03:27 ◼   ► But he got this one that allowed you to put a passcode

01:03:32 ◼   ► on your door of your house.

01:03:34 ◼   ► So that's one of the things that you do,

01:03:35 ◼   ► is you build a house to protect yourself

01:03:37 ◼   ► from monsters and stuff.

01:03:38 ◼   ► And he wanted to do this thing where you

01:03:42 ◼   ► put a passcode on the house.

01:03:44 ◼   ► And I went to the website that had

01:03:47 ◼   ► the instructions for the mod.

01:03:48 ◼   ► And it's a little program.

01:03:51 ◼   ► So you build a computer in Minecraft

01:03:54 ◼   ► using different parts.

01:03:55 ◼   ► And then you put the computer in the wall of your house

01:03:58 ◼   ► and connect it with this line to the door.

01:04:01 ◼   ► And then you have to type in a little program

01:04:05 ◼   ► to basically tell the door to open and close

01:04:09 ◼   ► and what the password is.

01:04:11 ◼   ► And so I sat down with him and he worked together

01:04:14 ◼   ► to type this little program in.

01:04:16 ◼   ► And then he quickly learned how to change the password, where

01:04:22 ◼   ► the password was in the little quotes.

01:04:24 ◼   ► and then how to change the timer setting for how long the door was open.

01:04:30 ◼   ► So I sat down with him for a little while, showed him how to do that,

01:04:34 ◼   ► and then he spent another hour or so just playing

01:04:37 ◼   ► with the different parameters and stuff like that.

01:04:40 ◼   ► But he's actually learning to program.

01:04:41 ◼   ► But he's coding, yeah.

01:04:41 ◼   ► So he's in this game, and he's actually writing a program.

01:04:45 ◼   ► Right.

01:04:46 ◼   ► Unbelievable.

01:04:47 ◼   ► But the other aspect is the YouTube angle, which is the way that YouTube is--

01:04:53 ◼   ► I mean, we all watch YouTube videos, but the way kids use it is so different and so much

01:05:00 ◼   ► more pervasive.

01:05:04 ◼   ► It's effectively their TV.

01:05:07 ◼   ► And I know that sounds trite, but in a way that when I was 10 years old, I watched as

01:05:13 ◼   ► much TV as I could get away with.

01:05:15 ◼   ► It was just what we did, right?

01:05:17 ◼   ► I mean, you'd try to come home from school, and if you could, if your parents would let

01:05:22 ◼   ► you turn on the TV and just watch whatever was on, right? Just keep flipping, flipping

01:05:27 ◼   ► around the channels until you found the most interesting thing you could find, which even

01:05:32 ◼   ► if it wasn't interesting, I'd watch.

01:05:34 ◼   ► Sure. You had to have something on.

01:05:36 ◼   ► Right.

01:05:37 ◼   ► What else were you going to do?

01:05:38 ◼   ► I mean, I've watched, like, I know for, I guarantee you, I have seen every episode of

01:05:44 ◼   ► The Brady Bunch at least three times, because at one point it was like four o'clock, the

01:05:50 ◼   ► best thing that was on TV was Brady Bunch reruns. It was a horrible show. I

01:05:54 ◼   ► knew it was a horrible show. I don't think I ever once genuinely laughed at a

01:05:58 ◼   ► single gag, but I watched anyway because it was on. And I feel like for kids today

01:06:04 ◼   ► it's, you know, he would never waste time. Jonas would never waste time just

01:06:08 ◼   ► watching something stupid because he could be watching a YouTube video or a

01:06:14 ◼   ► Minecraft video on YouTube that he finds fascinating.

01:06:17 ◼   ► Yeah, but for Hank, it's also been like a gateway to a whole bunch of other YouTube

01:06:22 ◼   ► videos that are crap.

01:06:24 ◼   ► Oh, absolute.

01:06:26 ◼   ► But crap that they find captivating.

01:06:28 ◼   ► Yeah, they find hysterical.

01:06:29 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, this is that one.

01:06:31 ◼   ► Some of it's kind of funny.

01:06:32 ◼   ► It's that one guy who does the drive-through pranks.

01:06:35 ◼   ► Oh, I don't know that.

01:06:38 ◼   ► He's a magician, and he does some good.

01:06:40 ◼   ► He does some cool tricks.

01:06:41 ◼   ► He'll go up to like the...

01:06:43 ◼   ► Almost always, he's just like punking some fast food place.

01:06:46 ◼   ► And he goes up and he'll order something

01:06:48 ◼   ► and then he'll have three $1 bills in his hand

01:06:50 ◼   ► and they'll go, "It's a 450."

01:06:52 ◼   ► He's like, "Oh, oh, shoot, I've only got $3 here."

01:06:57 ◼   ► And they go, "Oh, hang on a second."

01:07:00 ◼   ► And he just lifts up the $3 bills

01:07:02 ◼   ► and smacks them back down on his hand

01:07:04 ◼   ► and they turn it a fives.

01:07:05 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:07:07 ◼   ► And the reactions, it's like the reactions

01:07:09 ◼   ► from the clerks at the McDonald's or whatever it is

01:07:12 ◼   ► are always the best part.

01:07:13 ◼   ► Just like, "What?"

01:07:14 ◼   ► What are you-- how did you-- gay, come over here.

01:07:18 ◼   ► Watch this again.

01:07:20 ◼   ► And then he does a thing where they like drive-through.

01:07:23 ◼   ► He covers himself up.

01:07:24 ◼   ► He had built a fake car seat.

01:07:26 ◼   ► And he reclines his car seat and lies down and puts the fake car

01:07:29 ◼   ► seat there and drives the car up.

01:07:32 ◼   ► I think I've seen that.

01:07:33 ◼   ► He orders something, and then there's nobody in the car,

01:07:35 ◼   ► and the car pulls up.

01:07:36 ◼   ► I've seen that one.

01:07:37 ◼   ► It's all stuff like that.

01:07:37 ◼   ► And some of them are better than other ones, but some of them

01:07:40 ◼   ► are pretty funny.

01:07:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:42 ◼   ► And it's also a sign that YouTube is--

01:07:45 ◼   ► and I guess I'm late to the game on this,

01:07:48 ◼   ► but it's a real business for people.

01:07:50 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

01:07:50 ◼   ► Clearly.

01:07:51 ◼   ► Clearly it is for Stampy.

01:07:53 ◼   ► Right, but there's a lot of--

01:07:55 ◼   ► Because he was working in a pub a year ago

01:07:58 ◼   ► and working minimum wage.

01:08:02 ◼   ► And it didn't really take off immediately.

01:08:04 ◼   ► It took him a long time.

01:08:05 ◼   ► This other guy, Daniel Middleton,

01:08:08 ◼   ► who's the diamond minecart of Minecraft.

01:08:13 ◼   ► He had another channel where he did Pokemon videos.

01:08:17 ◼   ► And he had that for like three years

01:08:19 ◼   ► and ended up with like 10,000 followers or something

01:08:23 ◼   ► like that.

01:08:23 ◼   ► I think I had the right--

01:08:24 ◼   ► I think I had the guy right.

01:08:25 ◼   ► Anyway, one of the guys that I wrote about.

01:08:27 ◼   ► And then suddenly he switched to Minecraft.

01:08:29 ◼   ► And now he's up to like a million and a half or more.

01:08:34 ◼   ► I wonder, does Google, when they announced their--

01:08:37 ◼   ► I don't think that they do, but I wonder if when they announced their quarterly finances,

01:08:43 ◼   ► do they break YouTube apart?

01:08:45 ◼   ► And if not, it would be interesting to me to know.

01:08:49 ◼   ► Because obviously for a lot of these people who are making these videos, it's meaningful

01:08:54 ◼   ► income.

01:08:56 ◼   ► It's not just a fluke.

01:08:58 ◼   ► For a lot of people, it can be like that's their job is making YouTube shows and that

01:09:04 ◼   ► the ads pay a living wage or more.

01:09:07 ◼   ► But in the aggregate, does Google's cut of that

01:09:12 ◼   ► turn out to be significant to Google?

01:09:15 ◼   ► I think it probably does.

01:09:16 ◼   ► I think it's, you have to start thinking about YouTube

01:09:19 ◼   ► as not just being successful in terms of aggregate eyeballs,

01:09:24 ◼   ► but that it's actually a successful acquisition financially.

01:09:28 ◼   ► You know, that it would,

01:09:30 ◼   ► didn't make a lot of sense to me at the time,

01:09:31 ◼   ► 'cause I just thought, well, how can they make money,

01:09:33 ◼   ► you know, the bandwidth costs are,

01:09:35 ◼   ► gotta be exorbitant, but, you know,

01:09:37 ◼   ► I think it's actually turned into a real thing.

01:09:40 ◼   ► - It would be interesting, nobody, it's hard,

01:09:42 ◼   ► it's so, this stuff is so hard to track

01:09:45 ◼   ► that you don't have a good sense

01:09:47 ◼   ► of where all the money is going,

01:09:48 ◼   ► because, you know, Marco wrote that piece

01:09:50 ◼   ► a week or two ago about how he was just

01:09:53 ◼   ► basically giving up on ads.

01:09:54 ◼   ► - Right.

01:09:55 ◼   ► - On his site, 'cause it just wasn't worth the trouble

01:09:57 ◼   ► for him anymore, and he wasn't getting enough money,

01:10:00 ◼   ► I mean, he wasn't getting that much money.

01:10:03 ◼   ► And it does seem like, I've heard that other places as well,

01:10:08 ◼   ► that website advertising is becoming,

01:10:12 ◼   ► is drying up a little bit,

01:10:13 ◼   ► but podcast advertising is like a boomtown right now.

01:10:17 ◼   ► And so YouTube seems to be the same way.

01:10:23 ◼   ► - Let me tell you about Warby Parker.

01:10:27 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:10:29 ◼   ► - Speaking of podcast advertising.

01:10:30 ◼   ► Warby Parker is a new concept in eyewear founded with a rebellious spirit and a lofty objective

01:10:37 ◼   ► to create boutique quality, classically crafted eyewear at a revolutionary price.

01:10:45 ◼   ► It's a collaboration between Foreclose Friends.

01:10:47 ◼   ► It was conceived as an alternative to the overpriced and bland eyewear available in

01:10:52 ◼   ► most retail eyewear stores.

01:10:58 ◼   ► eyewear simply should not cost three, four, five hundred dollars. The industry is controlled

01:11:03 ◼   ► by a few large companies and they've kept prices artificially high. If you've ever thought,

01:11:09 ◼   ► "Hey, why do glasses cost this much?" Well, it's because they shouldn't cost that much.

01:11:13 ◼   ► So by circumventing traditional channels and engaging with customers directly right through

01:11:18 ◼   ► their website, no retail overhead, although they do have some retail locations now, but

01:11:23 ◼   ► you don't have to use them. Warby Parker is able to provide

01:11:27 ◼   ► higher quality, better looking prescription eyewear at a

01:11:30 ◼   ► fraction of the price. So you get better glasses, and you pay

01:11:35 ◼   ► less. There's a special page just for the talk show, you can

01:11:39 ◼   ► go to warby Parker comm slash the talk show. And glasses start

01:11:46 ◼   ► at just $95. Really cool. And you think, well, how am I going

01:11:50 ◼   ► to buy glasses online? Easy. They have this try at home

01:11:53 ◼   ► program. So you go there, you can browse through the glasses

01:11:57 ◼   ► that they have, you can say here's what I think it would

01:11:59 ◼   ► look like they've even got like a little online thing where you

01:12:02 ◼   ► can use your webcam on your computer to they'll take your

01:12:06 ◼   ► picture and sort of show you what the glasses would look like

01:12:08 ◼   ► on your face. You're not going to buy them like that just on

01:12:10 ◼   ► the picture, but maybe it'll give you an idea of which frames

01:12:12 ◼   ► you're interested in. You pick five pairs that you're

01:12:15 ◼   ► interested in. And they ship those five pairs to you, you try

01:12:21 ◼   ► them on in your own home. You can look in the mirror, you can

01:12:23 ◼   ► get your friends, your significant others to say, hey,

01:12:27 ◼   ► there's that's the one that looks good on you. Then you send

01:12:30 ◼   ► them back, tell them which one you want. And then they'll send

01:12:33 ◼   ► them back to you with the actual prescription lenses right in

01:12:36 ◼   ► there. Couldn't be easier, super easy, unbelievable selection,

01:12:40 ◼   ► and you can't beat the price starts at just $95. So go to

01:12:44 ◼   ► warby Parker comm slash the talk show. And you can get started.

01:12:50 ◼   ► They have everything they have sunglasses anything anything you want glasses. Do you have prescription glasses?

01:12:55 ◼   ► I do but I almost never wear them. I

01:12:59 ◼   ► Wear contact lenses. Yeah, that's what I wear contact lenses and I've got a I've got I'm pretty practically blind without them

01:13:07 ◼   ► but I bought I've so the last pair of glasses I bought was like 15 years ago and

01:13:12 ◼   ► They were I mean they were like over a thousand dollars. They were real if they were fashionable. They were really nice

01:13:19 ◼   ► They're really good glasses, but they were

01:13:21 ◼   ► They were really fucking expensive - I definitely the next time I'm gonna go with Warby Parker. Oh, absolutely

01:13:28 ◼   ► Yeah, I know I forget how long how old my current glasses are, but they're pretty old

01:13:34 ◼   ► I don't think they're quite ten years old, but it's probably close probably like eight years old

01:13:37 ◼   ► And I know that I paid over $600

01:13:41 ◼   ► Yeah, and and that's knowing I bought them knowing that I don't wear glasses

01:13:47 ◼   ► usually it's you know if I'm sick or something or you know like if I'm flying sometimes I won't put my contacts in because it's a

01:13:53 ◼   ► Prefer not to sleep in the context so if I'm gonna try to sleep on the plane

01:13:57 ◼   ► I'll just wear my glasses stuff like that, but I don't really you know

01:14:01 ◼   ► I wouldn't say I don't care what they look like, but I didn't want to spend 600 bucks on

01:14:05 ◼   ► Yeah, but it didn't seem anyway around at least back

01:14:09 ◼   ► Then it was and I think that's one of the things about Warby Parker right is they they all come with the coding

01:14:14 ◼   ► Yeah, no, it's no upsell on any of that stuff. Yeah get the anti-reflective lenses and you know

01:14:19 ◼   ► It's like you when you'd go to it when I when I went it was such a total upsell scam. It was like right

01:14:24 ◼   ► Here's what they call our psych by an it's going to car dealership, right?

01:14:27 ◼   ► It was like the the regular lenses are made out of the material

01:14:30 ◼   ► They made that the the first iPod nano out of we're like your fingernail can scratch it

01:14:34 ◼   ► It's like yeah, you don't want these lenses. They're they're made out of like a putty

01:14:39 ◼   ► And it's like no, I guess I don't want those lenses and they're like you want these lenses there

01:14:44 ◼   ► They've actually gotten it, you know, they're scratch proof and it glare proof and oh and it cost 300 extra dollars

01:14:50 ◼   ► Years long long time ago I had I

01:14:54 ◼   ► Found a pair and my grandfather's house. I found a pair of my dad's old glasses from when he was like in high school

01:15:01 ◼   ► Oh, yeah. Yeah, and I took the frames and had had new prescription for them. So I wore those for a while

01:15:06 ◼   ► Yeah, those were just really cool. But then eventually they broke they were just they were - yeah, they were from the

01:15:11 ◼   ► From the 40s, right?

01:15:14 ◼   ► Used to be you know

01:15:15 ◼   ► The glasses were actually of course glass and it was like if you've ever found like an old pair of glasses like that

01:15:21 ◼   ► They were incredibly heavy

01:15:22 ◼   ► Yeah

01:15:22 ◼   ► because that's like it's not just like you can get glass sunglasses if you don't have prescription lenses and they're not they're heavier than

01:15:28 ◼   ► Plastic lenses, but they're not super heavy because they're they're not prescription

01:15:33 ◼   ► but the prescription makes them thicker and yeah like at the time I did I had I had to have glass put into those because

01:15:39 ◼   ► They were too small for my prescription was so bad right then they I guess they hadn't invented like the super thin

01:15:46 ◼   ► I mean they hadn't the technology with the plastic wasn't good enough to think it actually make

01:15:50 ◼   ► The lens is small enough to put in those old frames so they'd use class right like and it's you know

01:15:56 ◼   ► It's like a cliche that somebody has coke

01:15:59 ◼   ► But they're all it was yeah, I think my vision is probably bad enough for if I had been around 40 years ago 50 years ago

01:16:06 ◼   ► I would have had like inch the inch thick

01:16:08 ◼   ► We've been terrible

01:16:12 ◼   ► What else is going on we got to the Microsoft Office came out this week for the iPad yeah, which is a pretty big news

01:16:21 ◼   ► I forget who said it and I should have remembered, but somebody said that they've

01:16:25 ◼   ► traded

01:16:27 ◼   ► They've decided to give up on world domination and and settle for relevance, which is a little

01:16:33 ◼   ► Little harsh, but it's sort of true

01:16:37 ◼   ► I think you know because I think you could try and dominate in a different way really right

01:16:41 ◼   ► You're not you're dumb. You're trying to dominate with your with your apps rather than trying to dominate with your

01:16:47 ◼   ► operating system

01:16:49 ◼   ► Because it's really the you know, that's I guess the big question everybody has why did it take so long and

01:16:55 ◼   ► And I think that the best explanation, I think it's probably more complicated.

01:17:00 ◼   ► You know, I'm sure that internal to Microsoft, it's a long, long story.

01:17:04 ◼   ► But I think, you know, you could probably sum it up as Steve Ballmer didn't want to have Office on the iPad

01:17:12 ◼   ► because he didn't want to give the iPad any more credence in the business world.

01:17:18 ◼   ► Right?

01:17:19 ◼   ► They had, I mean he, I mean I'm assuming that it was him for the most part, just, that whole

01:17:27 ◼   ► marketing scheme of making everything Windows was just, I think, dumb.

01:17:33 ◼   ► It was at waffle.com.

01:17:36 ◼   ► Waffle.wootest.net.

01:17:38 ◼   ► I'll send a link in the show notes.

01:17:41 ◼   ► I'll actually do show notes this week.

01:17:45 ◼   ► And then the other thing, wait, actually I'm not sure if this actually happened, but Mary

01:17:49 ◼   ► Jo Foley had heard that they were going to change Windows Azure to Microsoft Azure.

01:17:58 ◼   ► That makes sense to me.

01:17:59 ◼   ► Yeah, makes perfect sense.

01:18:01 ◼   ► That is going to, if it's true, it would be announced next week at MOSCOD.

01:18:05 ◼   ► At Build.

01:18:06 ◼   ► At Build.

01:18:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:08 ◼   ► You know what's actually funny about that?

01:18:09 ◼   ► I'll tell you what's funny.

01:18:10 ◼   ► So I missed Macworld.

01:18:11 ◼   ► Yeah, I know what's funny.

01:18:13 ◼   ► I'm actually going to be at at build next week. I will be that San Francisco. And there

01:18:19 ◼   ► is a very good chance that I'm going to, I'm going to have an episode of the talk show

01:18:25 ◼   ► that I'll be hosting live from build. But I think it's only going to be for build attendees.

01:18:33 ◼   ► So those of you listening who are going to build, I don't know how it's going to turn

01:18:39 ◼   ► out because I don't do I do you know does anybody who who's going to attend

01:18:43 ◼   ► build listen to the talk show I don't know I've been told that it should be

01:18:46 ◼   ► well attended I'm kind of fearful that it's going to be like three people in

01:18:51 ◼   ► the audience but anybody who is listening right now to these words

01:18:55 ◼   ► before or during build I think on Thursday what's the date gonna be on

01:19:02 ◼   ► Thursday Thursday the 3rd of April I believe I'm gonna have a live episode of

01:19:07 ◼   ► the talk show from build in Moscow.

01:19:11 ◼   ► - And this is not an April Fool's Day joke.

01:19:13 ◼   ► - This is not an, I don't do April Fool's Day jokes.

01:19:16 ◼   ► So stay tuned and listen, I guess I'll post it

01:19:21 ◼   ► on Daring Fireball when I get the final.

01:19:23 ◼   ► - And is Brent gonna be with you?

01:19:25 ◼   ► - Brent should be with me.

01:19:27 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:19:28 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:19:30 ◼   ► Brent Simmons, colleague at Q Branch.

01:19:33 ◼   ► But yeah, that's what I saw Mary Jo Foley's report on that.

01:19:37 ◼   ► makes sense to me that it's gonna you know they're gonna stop using and this

01:19:41 ◼   ► to me couldn't be more clearly a sort of look this was sort of Balmer's thing

01:19:46 ◼   ► that everything gets called Windows whether it has anything to do with

01:19:49 ◼   ► Windows or not and I think with Azure it's actually maybe the worst case of

01:19:54 ◼   ► that ever because and you know and her explanation for it and it makes total

01:20:00 ◼   ► sense to me is it actually puts the wrong message in developers minds where

01:20:04 ◼   ► you're thinking, well, Windows Azure must be something for people.

01:20:07 ◼   ► For Windows.

01:20:08 ◼   ► You know, whether you're writing PC Windows or Windows Phone, it's some kind of cloud

01:20:14 ◼   ► thing for Windows developers, where it's really not.

01:20:17 ◼   ► It is absolutely, could not be more platform agnostic.

01:20:22 ◼   ► It is just a way to run code in the cloud.

01:20:26 ◼   ► And you can, you know, program in whatever you want.

01:20:28 ◼   ► You're not programming, you know, and using Windows programming languages, unless you

01:20:33 ◼   ► want to you know and but you could just use node.js or anything so calling it

01:20:41 ◼   ► Microsoft Azure I think is a smart move yeah and it just it seems like you yeah

01:20:49 ◼   ► I mean an Apple I feel like you know did that right with the iPhone or is it's

01:20:54 ◼   ► not you know it's not the Mac phone it's something completely different and you

01:20:59 ◼   ► You also bring in people who might have had a negative connotation with your previous

01:21:05 ◼   ► products.

01:21:06 ◼   ► It's a whole new, it's a whole fresh start.

01:21:08 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a perfect analogy really that calling it the Mac phone, whether you think it's a

01:21:13 ◼   ► good name or not.

01:21:15 ◼   ► But even let's say that Mac phone, let's just say that hypothetically we all agree that

01:21:20 ◼   ► it's a cool name in theory.

01:21:23 ◼   ► It would still would have been a terrible idea, I think marketing wise because like

01:21:26 ◼   ► Like you said, it might have made people who've always thought, "Well, the Mac is this weird

01:21:32 ◼   ► computer that's not like my computer and I don't get it."

01:21:36 ◼   ► I think it's got compatibility problems with my stuff.

01:21:41 ◼   ► Give it a new name and let it be its own thing.

01:21:43 ◼   ► And it starts with a first place.

01:21:45 ◼   ► It's funny that they did that with the iPod.

01:21:48 ◼   ► Because at the beginning, it was really Mac only.

01:21:51 ◼   ► Right.

01:21:52 ◼   ► And it wasn't until later.

01:21:55 ◼   ► it famously, as we now know in hindsight, that Steve Jobs wanted to keep it Mac only.

01:22:01 ◼   ► It wasn't like they had the idea, or at least Jobs didn't have the idea right from the start

01:22:06 ◼   ► that they would eventually expand to Windows compatibility with the iPod.

01:22:13 ◼   ► But they still gave it its own name, which I think was smart.

01:22:16 ◼   ► CB; Yeah, so it seems like there was maybe it was just like a general mindset in the

01:22:21 ◼   ► industry in the early 2000s that you had to push all of your platforms at the same time

01:22:27 ◼   ► and luckily Apple got out of that mindset and Microsoft is only now getting out of it.

01:22:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:33 ◼   ► I'm super, you know, there's a couple of reasons I'm going to build but I really do, I just

01:22:38 ◼   ► have like this sort of sixth sense like spidey sense that it's going to, that it, the CEO

01:22:48 ◼   ► change at Microsoft is is a really big deal and I think that it's you know that

01:22:54 ◼   ► we really are going to see exciting new stuff from Microsoft and that's truthfully

01:23:02 ◼   ► you know for the first time since I've been doing this stuff during fireball

01:23:07 ◼   ► and the talk show you know this the last ten years or so I am so much more

01:23:12 ◼   ► interested in what Microsoft is up to then at any point in that whole era

01:23:15 ◼   ► Right. And I've had a very big change in my outlook just within the past six months because six months ago I was kind of, you know, Apple stock does what Apple stock does and Microsoft stock was still like inching up even though they effectively had no CEO.

01:23:37 ◼   ► And to me that was just and it seemed like the coverage was just sort of like, well, they'll come, they'll have a CEO soon.

01:23:45 ◼   ► And like if it had been Apple without a CEO, you wouldn't be able to move without, you know, under the avalanche of negative stories that would have been out there.

01:23:58 ◼   ► And yet somehow it seemed like nobody really was that bothered by the fact that Microsoft didn't have an actual CEO.

01:24:06 ◼   ► so I I thought the outlook for the company was

01:24:09 ◼   ► possibly extremely negative and

01:24:12 ◼   ► The fact that they've picked who they picked I think is has turned out pretty well so far anyway. Yeah, I agree

01:24:19 ◼   ► And I think that I get the feeling that build is going to be

01:24:24 ◼   ► Satya Nadel is coming out party I

01:24:28 ◼   ► Mean who knows I could be wrong and it could be like the most boring keynote ever where they?

01:24:33 ◼   ► don't really have much new to announce and and

01:24:36 ◼   ► Whatever, but I kind of get the feeling like no I kind of feel like no this is a big deal. Yeah, I

01:24:43 ◼   ► Feel like maybe there'll be a lot to talk about next week

01:24:46 ◼   ► That's stuff that we don't even know yet because it's they've they're keeping it under wrapping in our wraps

01:24:51 ◼   ► I don't know. It's it's exciting though to me that there's that they're

01:24:56 ◼   ► Sort of like a slumbering giant that's woken up

01:25:02 ◼   ► I'm waiting for the first person to write this story about how it's a bad sign that you didn't go to Mac world and

01:25:06 ◼   ► You're going to build

01:25:09 ◼   ► Yeah, I hope nobody makes a big deal because ideally I would have gone to both. It just I had like a

01:25:14 ◼   ► The new dates for Mac world just didn't work out with a previous commitment of family thing

01:25:19 ◼   ► But see if Dan lines were still writing about Apple that would have been written already. I wonder I

01:25:24 ◼   ► Don't know. I hope not. I wouldn't read into if I could have I would have gone to both

01:25:28 ◼   ► It's just a unusual coincidence, but I do feel like it's it is sort of an interesting sign of the times though

01:25:34 ◼   ► I don't know. I think it's kind of interesting that I'm that I'm miss Mac world and I'm going to

01:25:39 ◼   ► To build well if it would be I the more a comparable thing would be

01:25:45 ◼   ► WWDC right rather than Mac world, right?

01:25:49 ◼   ► Have you looked at the office for iPad apps I

01:25:55 ◼   ► I looked at them briefly.

01:25:57 ◼   ► I haven't paid for 360 yet and I don't really plan to.

01:26:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I did download them just to see what they look like.

01:26:04 ◼   ► And they look a little similar to what

01:26:06 ◼   ► they did for the Surface, which I think was pretty good.

01:26:11 ◼   ► I was surprised when the Surface came out

01:26:14 ◼   ► that it was actually that much different

01:26:15 ◼   ► than the desktop versions of the regular old desktop

01:26:19 ◼   ► versions of Office.

01:26:22 ◼   ► And it looks like I mean they look like.

01:26:23 ◼   ► They're fine.

01:26:26 ◼   ► Yeah, they look like real iPhone.

01:26:28 ◼   ► I don't have any.

01:26:29 ◼   ► I don't have any need for them anymore.

01:26:30 ◼   ► Yeah, that's the thing is I don't use a word processor anymore.

01:26:35 ◼   ► Yeah, and I don't know.

01:26:37 ◼   ► I mean other than using it for and I've been yapping about this for a while, but other than using them for business.

01:26:43 ◼   ► Like if you work in an office that uses office then sure it makes sense because you might want to do some editing, do some work on an iPad.

01:26:52 ◼   ► But I don't if I was just a consumer, I don't know why I would pay that much money.

01:26:58 ◼   ► I mean, you know, people don't make are people really printing out those newsletters anymore?

01:27:05 ◼   ► I don't know. It's interesting. So the basic idea is it's the four apps,

01:27:12 ◼   ► there's four apps that comprise Office for iPad, it's Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote.

01:27:19 ◼   ► So they're free downloads, but as free downloads, all they can do is read only.

01:27:30 ◼   ► And you can – if you save your documents to your – what's it called?

01:27:34 ◼   ► The OneDrive.

01:27:35 ◼   ► I think that's another thing that they changed the name of.

01:27:37 ◼   ► Wasn't it called like Windows Drive or something?

01:27:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:27:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:27:41 ◼   ► Now they just call it OneDrive.

01:27:42 ◼   ► That's OneDrive, yeah.

01:27:43 ◼   ► Which is sort of like their Dropbox/iCloud, sort of like a middle ground between iCloud

01:27:47 ◼   ► Dropbox you can read only and but it's it's as far as I can tell and I haven't seen anybody

01:27:55 ◼   ► dispute it it's it's really good fidelity it's not you know you know and I guess you run into

01:28:03 ◼   ► issues with fonts and stuff like that just like you do with the the iWork apps where on your Mac

01:28:08 ◼   ► you can have all these oh right whatever fonts you want but if you stick to you know the Microsoft

01:28:13 ◼   ► fonts and it's like the apps have those fonts embedded to the I don't I forget

01:28:19 ◼   ► all the names of them but the standard modern times New Roman well but they've

01:28:24 ◼   ► got like some ones the ones that all start with okay like the letter C I

01:28:27 ◼   ► think but which it makes it confusing but anyway if you stick to those fonts

01:28:31 ◼   ► you know they open up and they work and it's you know I to me that's an

01:28:36 ◼   ► interesting model that it's read-only is completely free and then you have to

01:28:41 ◼   ► it's like 100 bucks for a subscription and then you can unlocks the you know full

01:28:49 ◼   ► so there's two there's like a professional there's a 360 professional thing which is

01:28:53 ◼   ► ten bucks a month but then there's like a there's a how like a household where what's the consumer

01:29:04 ◼   ► whatever the consumer is which is gonna be a little bit less per month I think right and I

01:29:09 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:29:10 ◼   ► It'd be interesting to see how that works out for them.

01:29:14 ◼   ► Yeah, $10 a month for 360, home premium $7 for personal.

01:29:19 ◼   ► One thing I did notice is that when you sign into one with like your Microsoft account,

01:29:25 ◼   ► as soon as you sign into one of those apps, you're signed in in all of them, which is

01:29:30 ◼   ► interesting sandbox-wise.

01:29:34 ◼   ► it has something to do with I'm sure it has something to do with the do you

01:29:40 ◼   ► remember the thing a couple months ago where when text expander stopped working

01:29:46 ◼   ► with iOS 7 yeah because they were using like a I forget what they were using but

01:29:52 ◼   ► it was like a shared folder we talked about it on the show yeah right they

01:29:57 ◼   ► were using something that was not exactly what it was designed for right

01:30:00 ◼   ► It was like shared clipboards or something like that.

01:30:02 ◼   ► And it was-- what-- text expander wasn't the reason it got shut down, but other less scrupulous

01:30:10 ◼   ► things like ad networks were using it to track stuff across apps, so Apple closed it.

01:30:14 ◼   ► But the one thing that they left open was that apps from the same developer can use

01:30:18 ◼   ► a shared clipboard.

01:30:19 ◼   ► And it must be how Microsoft is doing that, where once you sign into live.com in Word,

01:30:25 ◼   ► when you open Excel you're already signed into the same account and I you

01:30:32 ◼   ► know I'm sure that there's other companies you know like a like the Omni

01:30:35 ◼   ► group or something like that could probably maybe they do use it because

01:30:38 ◼   ► they have a whole suite of applications but it's you know it just it's cool that

01:30:45 ◼   ► it works but it just shows though that it's it still kind of stinks that

01:30:48 ◼   ► there's no way for apps from two different developers to work together

01:30:52 ◼   ► the way that Mac software's always, you know,

01:30:56 ◼   ► it's always been such a cool community where, you know,

01:30:58 ◼   ► different developers can integrate with each other

01:31:00 ◼   ► and you still can't do that on iOS.

01:31:03 ◼   ► But it's kind of cool, it stuck out to me

01:31:04 ◼   ► that the Office apps have some kind of shared functionality

01:31:09 ◼   ► like that.

01:31:10 ◼   ► - And you can buy the subscription through the app.

01:31:15 ◼   ► - Yes, that's interesting too.

01:31:18 ◼   ► - You don't have to.

01:31:19 ◼   ► So like all the enterprise licenses

01:31:21 ◼   ► will not be bought through the app, of course,

01:31:23 ◼   ► because they already have one.

01:31:24 ◼   ► So they just put in whatever their login is.

01:31:26 ◼   ► - Right, so if you've already got a paid level of account,

01:31:29 ◼   ► when you sign into the app,

01:31:30 ◼   ► it's just the full read-write functionality

01:31:33 ◼   ► will be there for you.

01:31:35 ◼   ► But if you do buy it through the app,

01:31:37 ◼   ► and then this is apparently,

01:31:39 ◼   ► famously this leaked out in the press

01:31:41 ◼   ► from a year maybe even longer ago,

01:31:45 ◼   ► that Microsoft somehow didn't wanna have to pay

01:31:47 ◼   ► the 30% App Store revenue share.

01:31:51 ◼   ► But they're just, you know, they are.

01:31:54 ◼   ► Now, if you do the in-app purchase to sign up for it, it's a regular in-app purchase

01:32:00 ◼   ► just like any other developer and Apple gets 30% of it.

01:32:06 ◼   ► Which is interesting.

01:32:07 ◼   ► I wonder how much that's gonna amount to.

01:32:11 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:32:12 ◼   ► It looks like, you know, and it's hard to say.

01:32:14 ◼   ► That's to me.

01:32:15 ◼   ► We'll never know.

01:32:16 ◼   ► Right.

01:32:17 ◼   ► It looks the – and it's, you know, because it's one purchase.

01:32:19 ◼   ► don't have to buy word separately from Excel you buy a 365 subscription and if

01:32:25 ◼   ► you have a active 365 subscription the apps are unlocked for reading right all

01:32:30 ◼   ► of them but they show up if you look at the best top grossing list for iPad they

01:32:39 ◼   ► show up from which app the purchase was made in so if you make the purchase in

01:32:44 ◼   ► Word, it Word gets the credit in the top grossing list. And they're all listed, they're all,

01:32:51 ◼   ► you know, none of them are at the top of the top grossing, but they're all, you know, last

01:32:55 ◼   ► I checked I think Word was like number four. So it seems like in the aggregate, it's not,

01:33:00 ◼   ► hasn't exactly set the app store on fire, but it seems, you know, seems pretty well

01:33:04 ◼   ► received. I think the true test will be though, is it like a flash in the pan because there's

01:33:11 ◼   ► There's so much pent up demand from people who've been waiting for this, or is it going

01:33:15 ◼   ► to stay in the top of the list for weeks and months to come?

01:33:19 ◼   ► And I wonder how renewals work.

01:33:23 ◼   ► I guess renewals work the same way.

01:33:25 ◼   ► I think so.

01:33:26 ◼   ► So you could renew on Microsoft's site and not pay the—and Apple would not get that

01:33:32 ◼   ► money.

01:33:33 ◼   ► Right.

01:33:34 ◼   ► Or probably like a message pops up within the app that says you're running out of time,

01:33:37 ◼   ► you need to renew, and if you do it through that, they do.

01:33:40 ◼   ► Yeah, it's not, I mean the price is, you know, as far as Office goes, the price isn't too bad,

01:33:46 ◼   ► assuming they keep up with the updating of it, because Office is so ridiculously expensive to

01:33:52 ◼   ► begin with. I think there's like a student license that's like 110 bucks or something like that,

01:33:58 ◼   ► but other than that, if like you're buying all those apps, it's still, it's ridiculous,

01:34:03 ◼   ► you know, it's in the several hundreds of dollars. Yeah, but it, you know, again, if you're,

01:34:08 ◼   ► Maybe like if your school has like a site-wide license,

01:34:13 ◼   ► maybe there's some school, you know,

01:34:15 ◼   ► some students who can just sign in

01:34:17 ◼   ► and they've already got them.

01:34:18 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:34:19 ◼   ► - It is, it does seem, it's a very different world

01:34:23 ◼   ► than the old days when you used to buy a box.

01:34:25 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

01:34:26 ◼   ► - Right, and it was crazy expensive, but I guess the way--

01:34:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, I never bought word outside of a student license.

01:34:34 ◼   ► - No, I don't think I did either.

01:34:35 ◼   ► or and then later I got it from where I worked.

01:34:40 ◼   ► - Right.

01:34:41 ◼   ► So I'm interested, and as a non-expert in any of those apps,

01:34:46 ◼   ► but just having downloaded them and poked around,

01:34:49 ◼   ► they do feel like good iPad apps, really good.

01:34:53 ◼   ► It doesn't feel like any--

01:34:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, like that startup screen was very iOS-y.

01:34:57 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:34:58 ◼   ► - You didn't start it up and say,

01:35:00 ◼   ► and this was for us older users,

01:35:04 ◼   ► was a big deal back in the 90s when they went from Word 5 to Word 6, I think, right?

01:35:10 ◼   ► Where Word was originally Mac-only, coded specifically for the Mac, and then they tried

01:35:19 ◼   ► to unify the code base with Word 6 and destroyed it.

01:35:25 ◼   ► It was just like a memory hog.

01:35:27 ◼   ► It was slow.

01:35:28 ◼   ► It was crashy.

01:35:29 ◼   ► It was ugly.

01:35:31 ◼   ► And people stayed on Word like 5.1 for years until eventually they either went to something

01:35:38 ◼   ► else or had to upgrade.

01:35:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:35:41 ◼   ► Here's some of the fonts.

01:35:42 ◼   ► I'm looking at the thing right now.

01:35:44 ◼   ► Here's some of the Microsoft fonts.

01:35:45 ◼   ► Calibri, Cambria, Kendara, Consolas, Constantia, Korbel.

01:35:55 ◼   ► I think that to me that...

01:35:56 ◼   ► Cordana is Cordana.

01:35:57 ◼   ► No.

01:35:58 ◼   ► No, not Cortana.

01:35:59 ◼   ► I was trying to think of that.

01:36:00 ◼   ► I've used that. I have that on my Mac because it's like their

01:36:03 ◼   ► monospace font get it console us kind of console

01:36:07 ◼   ► But I think that that naming scheme giving them all these these C names it it confuses the hell out of me

01:36:14 ◼   ► I can't yeah, I immediately forget them all except console us

01:36:17 ◼   ► But anyway, they really seem like good apps. I'm curious to see when the reviews, you know from people who are a lot more serious about

01:36:24 ◼   ► office apps how they compare to

01:36:29 ◼   ► obviously to pages, numbers, and keynote.

01:36:32 ◼   ► In terms of--

01:36:35 ◼   ► - I mean, in general,

01:36:35 ◼   ► so they're stripped down versions

01:36:37 ◼   ► of the regular Office apps.

01:36:39 ◼   ► They don't have everything that the regular Office apps have,

01:36:42 ◼   ► but from what I've seen,

01:36:44 ◼   ► it seems like they're still more full featured

01:36:45 ◼   ► than pages and numbers.

01:36:49 ◼   ► - I think so.

01:36:50 ◼   ► - And it's--

01:36:51 ◼   ► - It's hard to tell.

01:36:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

01:36:53 ◼   ► And I mean, in Excel, it's just,

01:36:56 ◼   ► I really don't see any need for word at all.

01:37:00 ◼   ► But Excel is really like the defacto standard

01:37:05 ◼   ► for spreadsheeting.

01:37:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, but I also know, I do know,

01:37:09 ◼   ► and it's just, you know, I'm sure there's, you know,

01:37:13 ◼   ► everybody out there listening to the show

01:37:14 ◼   ► is either gonna be like, what, that's crazy,

01:37:16 ◼   ► or there's some of them who work in such companies

01:37:19 ◼   ► and they're like nodding their heads,

01:37:21 ◼   ► where there's still like a culture in a lot of companies

01:37:23 ◼   ► where when you email somebody,

01:37:25 ◼   ► It's like you don't put the message in the email,

01:37:27 ◼   ► you send a Word document, right?

01:37:29 ◼   ► You like type your thing, like a memo in a Word document,

01:37:32 ◼   ► and then you email the Word document around.

01:37:35 ◼   ► I mean, and I know that that's, you know, like I said,

01:37:38 ◼   ► 90% of the people listening to the show are like,

01:37:41 ◼   ► that's crazy, and there's like 10% who are like,

01:37:43 ◼   ► yeah, that's my company.

01:37:44 ◼   ► And it can't, it has to be better to do it, you know,

01:37:50 ◼   ► to actually have Word reading the document than Pages.

01:37:54 ◼   ► even though I think Pages does a pretty good job with it.

01:37:57 ◼   ► And especially if you've got to do stuff,

01:37:59 ◼   ► you know, and I looked and they have the stuff

01:38:00 ◼   ► like change tracking and stuff like that.

01:38:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, actually, so yeah, I should take it.

01:38:07 ◼   ► The change tracking, supposedly the change tracking

01:38:09 ◼   ► in Word is really like a good cut above other options.

01:38:14 ◼   ► - And it just seems like with these iPad apps,

01:38:18 ◼   ► like they haven't glommed on,

01:38:20 ◼   ► I can't speak to how similar it is

01:38:22 ◼   ► to the versions for the Surface.

01:38:24 ◼   ► I've seen some people say they're pretty similar.

01:38:27 ◼   ► But it really does seem, they haven't given

01:38:32 ◼   ► like the Mac and Windows app and just wrapped it

01:38:35 ◼   ► in an iPad and here, now use your fat finger.

01:38:37 ◼   ► It seems like they've really taken an opportunity

01:38:39 ◼   ► to rethink how these apps should work

01:38:43 ◼   ► for these sort of devices.

01:38:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it seems like, clearly they've been around

01:38:50 ◼   ► for a while.

01:38:51 ◼   ► - Right.

01:38:52 ◼   ► - Sitting on a drive someplace and then finally--

01:38:56 ◼   ► - Right, well, but it seems like it's been active, yeah.

01:38:59 ◼   ► I mean, there's been rumors that they've been ready to go

01:39:02 ◼   ► or almost ready to go for a long time

01:39:03 ◼   ► and that they were held up just by internal politics.

01:39:06 ◼   ► Cough, cough, Steve Ballmer.

01:39:07 ◼   ► - Right.

01:39:08 ◼   ► - You know, whatever negotiations they tried to do

01:39:10 ◼   ► to get around the 30% revenue share with Apple.

01:39:14 ◼   ► But on the other hand--

01:39:16 ◼   ► - So you, I mean, I guess the,

01:39:18 ◼   ► seems like you could come to the conclusion

01:39:21 ◼   ► the idea was that he was just he was thinking that he would get them to to budge on the 30 percent

01:39:26 ◼   ► and then was deciding you know saying no forget it right and my guess is that they probably tried

01:39:31 ◼   ► similar you know wanted to get an exception like uh

01:39:34 ◼   ► like remember the early days with the kindle app where the candle would have like hey you want to

01:39:41 ◼   ► go buy books hit this button and it takes you to safari and then you're in safari to buy your books

01:39:46 ◼   ► at the kindles you know amazon's kindle store and you sign in with your account and then when you go

01:39:50 ◼   ► back to the Kindle app because you're signed into the account, the new books show up. And

01:39:55 ◼   ► Apple was like, "No, you can't put that button in there," which I still think is sort of

01:40:00 ◼   ► spiteful. I feel like it would not hurt Apple to do that, but it's easy to say when you're

01:40:07 ◼   ► not the one who can collect the 30% of everything. But I kind of get the feeling, like long story

01:40:14 ◼   ► short, what Microsoft thought was, "Well, we're Microsoft, and why wouldn't they want

01:40:18 ◼   ► office on the iPad, just let us have a button that'll take them to, you know,

01:40:23 ◼   ► microsoft.com where they'll give us a hundred percent of the money. Right.

01:40:27 ◼   ► Right. And I think Apple was like, no, we, we really do. We'd love to have,

01:40:32 ◼   ► we'd rather have the 30%. Thanks. Yeah. We would love to have office on the iPad,

01:40:37 ◼   ► but we will take the 30%. Uh, so it's funny.

01:40:41 ◼   ► It's funny how, I mean, they're basically the ones who budged. Yeah.

01:40:44 ◼   ► Microsoft is the ones who budged, but like there's this piece by Greg Kaiser,

01:40:48 ◼   ► at Computer World.

01:40:51 ◼   ► Says, "Nadella to cook on office revenue sharing drop dead."

01:40:55 ◼   ► Which is exactly the opposite of what ended up happening.

01:40:58 ◼   ► - When was that?

01:40:59 ◼   ► - The other day, 20.

01:41:01 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:41:03 ◼   ► - I'll have to link to that.

01:41:06 ◼   ► I don't know, I think that's about it though for the week.

01:41:09 ◼   ► Right, you got anything else?

01:41:11 ◼   ► - No.

01:41:12 ◼   ► - How's your other podcast going?

01:41:14 ◼   ► - Good, yeah.

01:41:16 ◼   ► - Turning this car around.

01:41:17 ◼   ► - Turning this car around.

01:41:19 ◼   ► - I gotta tell you, I fell behind a couple episodes.

01:41:22 ◼   ► I haven't been keeping up.

01:41:23 ◼   ► But I loaded up--

01:41:24 ◼   ► - So you've been doing some really lousy parenting.

01:41:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, as always.

01:41:30 ◼   ► But I did load it up, just since you were gonna be

01:41:32 ◼   ► on the show, I loaded up your website,

01:41:34 ◼   ► see what you had been writing,

01:41:35 ◼   ► and I loaded up the podcast show.

01:41:38 ◼   ► Gotta tell you, I wasn't ready to see Lex Friedman

01:41:41 ◼   ► dressed up as Elmo.

01:41:43 ◼   ► - Nobody ever is.

01:41:45 ◼   ► - Really, really disturbing.

01:41:46 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:41:49 ◼   ► And it's a knockoff Elmo too.

01:41:50 ◼   ► - Well--

01:41:51 ◼   ► - It's not even a real, that's not branded.

01:41:55 ◼   ► - I'm pretty sure that they, you know,

01:41:57 ◼   ► much like the Disney company,

01:41:58 ◼   ► that they do not sell branded--

01:42:02 ◼   ► - I guess not.

01:42:03 ◼   ► - Because--

01:42:04 ◼   ► - They're just leaving money on the table

01:42:05 ◼   ► right there though.

01:42:06 ◼   ► - No good can come of it.

01:42:07 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:42:08 ◼   ► - No.

01:42:10 ◼   ► Yeah, you don't want a bunch of people

01:42:11 ◼   ► running around in Elmo.

01:42:13 ◼   ► - It's really a horrifying picture.

01:42:15 ◼   ► So it's a place, there's a place I've taken out,

01:42:17 ◼   ► I've put this on, I think Instagram a long time ago on,

01:42:21 ◼   ► like, it's sort of like a South Tacoma way is,

01:42:25 ◼   ► there's a Neko case song about South Tacoma way,

01:42:28 ◼   ► but it's, you know, it's a lot of car dealerships

01:42:31 ◼   ► and dive bars and stuff like that.

01:42:34 ◼   ► But there's also like a dirty bookstore

01:42:39 ◼   ► that's like, it's called Elmo's Books, I think.

01:42:45 ◼   ► - Not a sponsor.

01:42:46 ◼   ► - No, not a.

01:42:46 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:42:49 ◼   ► We've had some unsavory sponsors.

01:42:53 ◼   ► - Which I think is probably just a guy

01:42:55 ◼   ► whose name is actually Elmo.

01:42:57 ◼   ► - Right.

01:42:58 ◼   ► Really wasn't ready for that.

01:43:01 ◼   ► So anyway, turn, what's the website?

01:43:03 ◼   ► - Turning this car around.

01:43:04 ◼   ► And we now have the turning this car around URL, so.

01:43:07 ◼   ► - Turning this car around.

01:43:08 ◼   ► - It's no longer just some acronym.

01:43:12 ◼   ► You can go to turningthiscararound.com.

01:43:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, and go there, if you go there this week

01:43:16 ◼   ► while the show, right here, this show is fresh

01:43:19 ◼   ► and you'll see Lex Friedman dressed as Elmo

01:43:21 ◼   ► and you will probably need an adult beverage afterwards.

01:43:25 ◼   ► - Self after that.

01:43:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, you're gonna either need to talk to somebody

01:43:28 ◼   ► or you're gonna need a stiff drink.

01:43:31 ◼   ► 'Cause I mean, wow.

01:43:32 ◼   ► Wow.

01:43:35 ◼   ► John Moltz, what else you got?

01:43:39 ◼   ► You got your very nice website,

01:43:43 ◼   ► which is down as we report.

01:43:45 ◼   ► - Well, it's down, your site is up, I just can't log in.

01:43:47 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:43:49 ◼   ► So you can read what I published previously

01:43:51 ◼   ► till I fix WordPress.

01:43:54 ◼   ► - So we all have a new website.

01:43:55 ◼   ► - That's another advertisement for Squarespace right there.

01:43:57 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:44:00 ◼   ► - What did you say before we got on,

01:44:01 ◼   ► we were talking about it, you logged in

01:44:03 ◼   ► and just came up with a white page.

01:44:05 ◼   ► - Just a blank page, yeah.

01:44:06 ◼   ► Lets me log in, but then just shows,

01:44:08 ◼   ► then like I can't get to the dashboard for some reason.

01:44:11 ◼   ► - You know, it's a lot funnier

01:44:12 ◼   ► because it's your website, not mine.

01:44:14 ◼   ► I'm sure.

01:44:15 ◼   ► I'm sure it's hysterical from where you're sitting.

01:44:18 ◼   ► It always is.

01:44:20 ◼   ► All right.

01:44:21 ◼   ► Yeah, have a good time in San Francisco.

01:44:23 ◼   ► Yeah, and so remember, everybody listening.

01:44:25 ◼   ► I drank all the gin, sorry.

01:44:26 ◼   ► Oh, well, I'm going to have to move on to something else.

01:44:32 ◼   ► You're probably not kidding, are you?

01:44:35 ◼   ► Well, in certain places, I'm not.

01:44:37 ◼   ► You know what's funny?

01:44:38 ◼   ► Do you ever drink the other stuff, the Fernet?

01:44:41 ◼   ► That's another thing that drives me nuts about San Francisco.

01:44:43 ◼   ► - I know that Merlin likes the Fernet

01:44:46 ◼   ► and so does our friend Albert McMurray.

01:44:48 ◼   ► - And I know, and Merlin Mann is a genuine human being

01:44:52 ◼   ► and he is, he truly, everybody out there knows who he is.

01:44:55 ◼   ► He is so not full of shit.