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The Incomparable

3: Doctor Sherlock vs. The Melty Man

 

00:00:00   so to explain who everybody is well i [TS]

00:00:02   guess i could just introduce you and and [TS]

00:00:04   run the podcast hey our podcast has [TS]

00:00:06   listeners in a name now I'm who it seems [TS]

00:00:09   like that seems like a myth and I I've [TS]

00:00:11   grown to hate all of you because I [TS]

00:00:13   edited every I think that's going to [TS]

00:00:15   start the pocket i added every last [TS]

00:00:19   second out of that first podcast is like [TS]

00:00:21   every word that Glen and Scot and dan [TS]

00:00:24   said I've heard it like a million times [TS]

00:00:26   oh I hate that yeah I also cut myself [TS]

00:00:28   out like five minutes of me talking in [TS]

00:00:30   that podcast is just like shut up [TS]

00:00:32   just take myself right out I think [TS]

00:00:34   everybody else was open I hate all that [TS]

00:00:36   I hate all of you and welcome and [TS]

00:00:39   welcome provided and it's the [TS]

00:00:41   uncomfortable podcast episode 3 knew [TS]

00:00:43   that I hate all of you anyway the [TS]

00:00:46   secrets are revealed at September's 2010 [TS]

00:00:52   this is easy and comfortable [TS]

00:00:55   test number three and I hate all of you [TS]

00:01:01   we talk comics we've talked books we're [TS]

00:01:04   gonna talk TV I'm Jason Snelling joining [TS]

00:01:06   me across the table here in San [TS]

00:01:07   Francisco is jason reitman hi Jason [TS]

00:01:09   hey on the magics of the interwebs we [TS]

00:01:12   have making his second appearance on the [TS]

00:01:15   podcast as well Dan Morgan we just can't [TS]

00:01:17   keep me down [TS]

00:01:18   that's right and Glenn fleischmann hello [TS]

00:01:20   hello [TS]

00:01:22   and we have some new people today we [TS]

00:01:23   have John siracusa hey John [TS]

00:01:25   hello everybody and ran Caldwell be [TS]

00:01:28   called well I should suggest you should [TS]

00:01:30   we call you serenity Caldwell officially [TS]

00:01:32   and then refer to you as ran or she'll [TS]

00:01:34   make up a name for you [TS]

00:01:35   yeah you can just make up whatever you [TS]

00:01:36   like alright thank you sharon haha so [TS]

00:01:39   our topic today is actually a strange as [TS]

00:01:42   it may seem the works and wit and wisdom [TS]

00:01:45   of Steven Moffat and we're all we're [TS]

00:01:46   going to talk about coupling today now [TS]

00:01:48   we're not going we could we meet we may [TS]

00:01:50   talk about coupling but mr. Moffat has [TS]

00:01:53   had a couple shows on recently that have [TS]

00:01:56   stirred some interest there Sherlock [TS]

00:01:58   which had three episodes in the UK which [TS]

00:02:01   recently ran and we'll be running [TS]

00:02:03   shortly in the US as part of a [TS]

00:02:05   masterpiece series on PBS and yet [TS]

00:02:08   somehow this group of Americans i have [TS]

00:02:09   before you have seems to have seen all [TS]

00:02:11   the episodes you're like no attention to [TS]

00:02:13   the man how we just got an advance copy [TS]

00:02:15   right there any such as a cloud of the [TS]

00:02:18   incomparable that's exactly right they [TS]

00:02:20   we drop that first podcast they're like [TS]

00:02:22   your watch this I'm sure that was it [TS]

00:02:24   so I want to talk before we get into [TS]

00:02:26   Doctor Who which we saw the first year [TS]

00:02:28   of Steven Moffat doctor who this year I [TS]

00:02:31   thought we would start with Sherlock [TS]

00:02:33   because especially because Glenn and [TS]

00:02:35   demanded to be on this podcast because [TS]

00:02:37   he I demand to be on the spot he has [TS]

00:02:39   recently you know read all of the [TS]

00:02:41   sherlock holmes and studied and and I [TS]

00:02:44   don't even know what he may have found a [TS]

00:02:45   man named sherlock holmes and killed him [TS]

00:02:47   and drunk his blood for all I know the [TS]

00:02:50   next video in this series you eat his [TS]

00:02:52   brain to gain is without thank you sorry [TS]

00:02:54   i totally screwed that up Glenn have [TS]

00:02:56   said too much yes [TS]

00:02:58   so let's start with let's start with [TS]

00:02:59   Sherlock three episodes Markus and [TS]

00:03:01   Stephen Moffat produce this show very [TS]

00:03:03   stylish I thought you would like to take [TS]

00:03:05   the lead in talking about what they felt [TS]

00:03:06   about this rebooted 21st century [TS]

00:03:10   Sherlock Holmes game Auryn oh I'll start [TS]

00:03:13   hey great love me says to make [TS]

00:03:15   when mad that I didn't pick that [TS]

00:03:16   actually comes from an interesting [TS]

00:03:20   perspective which was that earlier this [TS]

00:03:21   year after having seen the big screen [TS]

00:03:24   adaptation done by guy ritchie with [TS]

00:03:26   Robert Downey jr. in the Sherlock Holmes [TS]

00:03:28   road i saw i went back to sort of be [TS]

00:03:31   watching a lot of classic granada [TS]

00:03:33   television series with jeremy brett yeah [TS]

00:03:35   which I thought was which I i watched [TS]

00:03:37   when I was a kid when it was like airing [TS]

00:03:38   and because it aired for several years [TS]

00:03:40   between like ladies early nineties [TS]

00:03:42   before I germany right passed away and [TS]

00:03:44   so I went back and we want to hold on to [TS]

00:03:46   them because they're all on netflix [TS]

00:03:47   streaming which is which made it so that [TS]

00:03:49   I watched like five episodes in a [TS]

00:03:51   sitting pretty easily and i think what [TS]

00:03:53   struck me was how much more i enjoyed [TS]

00:03:54   that then the periods the recent guy [TS]

00:03:56   ritchie endeavor as much as I like [TS]

00:03:58   Robert Downey jr. and I thought that the [TS]

00:03:59   you know there's a lot of production [TS]

00:04:01   values i really enjoyed the older series [TS]

00:04:03   so when I can't let Steven Moffat series [TS]

00:04:04   of very excited because you know i like [TS]

00:04:06   his work on Doctor Who and coupling [TS]

00:04:08   which we're not going to talk about [TS]

00:04:09   today unless we do is we do and you put [TS]

00:04:13   for those who are not familiar with it [TS]

00:04:14   you know this is an updating of the [TS]

00:04:15   Sherlock Holmes story into the modern [TS]

00:04:17   day so we have Sherlock Holmes dr. [TS]

00:04:18   Watson in the 21st century and with you [TS]

00:04:22   know all the technological doodads that [TS]

00:04:24   we've all come to to know and love and [TS]

00:04:26   it's very interesting because i think [TS]

00:04:28   they've done a great job of bridging [TS]

00:04:30   what's totally new and out of character [TS]

00:04:32   in some ways and yet still retaining the [TS]

00:04:35   essential nature of the mysteries and [TS]

00:04:39   the characters themselves so I [TS]

00:04:42   personally I mean I i think the first [TS]

00:04:44   thing that occurred to me when i watch [TS]

00:04:45   the the pilot episode was a this is you [TS]

00:04:48   know kind of like doctor who meets [TS]

00:04:49   Sherlock Holmes and you know that's not [TS]

00:04:53   such a bad thing I guess I I thought [TS]

00:04:55   that they they did a great job of [TS]

00:04:56   casting and it really made each of these [TS]

00:04:59   episodes feel like like and have been [TS]

00:05:01   especially with the feature-length the [TS]

00:05:03   90 minutes I was a big fan of it i [TS]

00:05:05   really enjoyed the updates and I think [TS]

00:05:07   they did a great job of bringing a fresh [TS]

00:05:10   take on sherlock holmes that wasn't the [TS]

00:05:12   guy ritchie action movie style [TS]

00:05:16   well I know that one of the things that [TS]

00:05:17   Moffat and get us both of said is that [TS]

00:05:19   they literally wanted to bring sherlock [TS]

00:05:20   holmes out of the fog and that that the [TS]

00:05:22   stories they felt were great and had [TS]

00:05:24   gotten lost in the stereotype of [TS]

00:05:26   Victorian ism and fall [TS]

00:05:28   Logan the unity or stolen that you have [TS]

00:05:30   the character itself which all of so [TS]

00:05:32   many of the things that we take away [TS]

00:05:34   from Sherlock Holmes or we have in our [TS]

00:05:35   memory as an iconic sherlock holmes [TS]

00:05:36   aren't even derived from my battles over [TS]

00:05:39   phone yeah that's what basically that's [TS]

00:05:41   worth anything if anybody's going back [TS]

00:05:42   and watch those movies i watch those [TS]

00:05:44   like religiously when I was a kid [TS]

00:05:46   yeah they're totally different because a [TS]

00:05:48   lot of them don't if any of them don't [TS]

00:05:50   take place in the Victorian era [TS]

00:05:52   I mean that there are ones where he [TS]

00:05:53   fights Nazis in like World War Two [TS]

00:05:54   Feathers like yeah it's totally not [TS]

00:05:57   supermen they're not super they're just [TS]

00:06:00   normal knots are those Evelyn's haha [TS]

00:06:03   maybe in one of them have to look at one [TS]

00:06:05   called like Sherlock Holmes versus the [TS]

00:06:06   secret weapon or something nice and so I [TS]

00:06:09   think what's interesting is that the [TS]

00:06:10   whole you know that character is like so [TS]

00:06:13   many other franchised characters and [TS]

00:06:15   that's taken on a life of its own James [TS]

00:06:17   Bond another really good example of a [TS]

00:06:19   character who you know at a certain [TS]

00:06:20   point became kind of a caricature of the [TS]

00:06:23   original and I think even do a boil felt [TS]

00:06:25   that during his lifetime which of course [TS]

00:06:26   is why he tried to you know off them at [TS]

00:06:29   certain point [TS]

00:06:30   okay go ahead alright well now we have [TS]

00:06:32   in our reserve the right to discuss this [TS]

00:06:34   oh no because dan just talked for like [TS]

00:06:36   five minutes and we're totally getting [TS]

00:06:38   operated seconds [TS]

00:06:40   I you know I thought the new series was [TS]

00:06:42   actually quite good i like two episodes [TS]

00:06:43   one-in-three better than episode 2 which [TS]

00:06:45   I thought ya was weaker as I think many [TS]

00:06:47   of the folks here agree but I thought [TS]

00:06:49   the I thought they captured you know [TS]

00:06:50   when you look at what is the essence of [TS]

00:06:52   Sherlock Holmes and I actually went back [TS]

00:06:54   and read the the Louvre because of the [TS]

00:06:57   oils of because i wanted to after [TS]

00:06:59   reading some of the Mary Russell books [TS]

00:07:01   the lori king books about Sherlock [TS]

00:07:03   Holmes and his wife told from the wife's [TS]

00:07:05   perspective which are also surprisingly [TS]

00:07:08   good and had a bizarre ring of the [TS]

00:07:10   authentic to them like i have to report [TS]

00:07:12   these stories are actually about and [TS]

00:07:13   before I saw the guy ritchie version 2 [TS]

00:07:15   and I went red then I thought you know [TS]

00:07:16   homes is he's not a buffoon but he's a [TS]

00:07:18   showman he's he's always portrayed as [TS]

00:07:20   this logical emotionless person he is [TS]

00:07:22   plenty of emotions but he's he sort of [TS]

00:07:25   shapes his reaction of the world [TS]

00:07:27   he's a perfect actor he's always in [TS]

00:07:29   disguise he's always perpetuating some [TS]

00:07:31   kind of interaction with someone to get [TS]

00:07:33   the reaction he wants and I thought guy [TS]

00:07:35   ritchie I think that movie was to add a [TS]

00:07:38   little too muggy in ann arbor Tony jr. [TS]

00:07:41   it was great [TS]

00:07:41   but the whole thing was a little too [TS]

00:07:43   like wink wink but I thought he captured [TS]

00:07:45   the notion that that he's not just a [TS]

00:07:47   logical detached person but he has the [TS]

00:07:50   this enormous mind and this enormous [TS]

00:07:52   facility for acting and moffatts version [TS]

00:07:55   i think also capture that as well as [TS]

00:07:57   that you know homes is eccentric but he [TS]

00:07:59   knows precisely how eccentric eccentric [TS]

00:08:00   he is he's calibrated his eccentricity [TS]

00:08:03   the degree to which he can be tolerated [TS]

00:08:06   within society and get exactly what he [TS]

00:08:08   wants out of it i think that's portrayed [TS]

00:08:10   the one thing missing i would say is the [TS]

00:08:12   disguises homes is always in disguise [TS]

00:08:14   he's always an old woman or a beggar or [TS]

00:08:17   you know five men somehow you know his [TS]

00:08:19   face in 10 minutes different outfits of [TS]

00:08:21   the rips coats off in the the garbage [TS]

00:08:24   movie that's actually think accurate to [TS]

00:08:26   the books to the other thing is homes as [TS]

00:08:27   a fighter the authentic homes as a [TS]

00:08:29   fighter he's invented his own form of [TS]

00:08:31   martial arts a combination of jujitsu [TS]

00:08:34   and karate and something else [TS]

00:08:35   he's always beating somebody up Watson [TS]

00:08:38   carries the gun but Holmes uses as fast [TS]

00:08:40   as well he's not afraid of that and i [TS]

00:08:42   think that the Moffett version you know [TS]

00:08:45   plays that down a bit there's a fair [TS]

00:08:47   amount of violence in it but nothing [TS]

00:08:48   excessive it's more sort of a given [TS]

00:08:51   taken to the interplay than that but i [TS]

00:08:53   think it was really I think the market [TS]

00:08:55   series on its own stands is something [TS]

00:08:56   that's enjoyable and unique with while [TS]

00:08:58   paying you know kind of a very close [TS]

00:09:01   homage to to the books you know one of [TS]

00:09:03   the jokes of course is the Bruce part of [TS]

00:09:05   Bruce Partington affairs i'm going to [TS]

00:09:07   have and responding plants which they [TS]

00:09:09   which they use i think in a clever way [TS]

00:09:11   they're sort of giving us a call back to [TS]

00:09:14   you know 1893 while only and they [TS]

00:09:17   maintain the plot of that story to a [TS]

00:09:19   certain extent like the murderer sort of [TS]

00:09:21   plot of that is kept intact in family [TS]

00:09:23   that was a beautiful tour de force and I [TS]

00:09:25   never felt I mean he knows there are [TS]

00:09:27   some elements like Sherlock Holmes is a [TS]

00:09:28   fantastic hacker as well as a scientist [TS]

00:09:30   in the books as a scientist that the [TS]

00:09:31   crazy violin playing which I thought [TS]

00:09:34   mimicked lord I juniors version the [TS]

00:09:38   movie as well the sort of nutty plucking [TS]

00:09:40   at the violin I enjoy the Watsons [TS]

00:09:42   writings about homes are now a blog as [TS]

00:09:45   well it's perfect but I felt even the [TS]

00:09:47   relationship is perfect which is that [TS]

00:09:48   the one of the books isn't an idiot he's [TS]

00:09:50   just he can encompass as much evil as [TS]

00:09:53   there is in the world [TS]

00:09:54   and homes can home is perfectly willing [TS]

00:09:56   to think of anything no matter how its [TS]

00:09:59   what's the famous quote is that when you [TS]

00:10:01   eliminate the impossible whatever [TS]

00:10:02   remains no matter how improbable is the [TS]

00:10:04   truth something like that right in and [TS]

00:10:06   watching never accepts that he believes [TS]

00:10:08   in both the impossible but also in the [TS]

00:10:10   goodness of people and I think a bit of [TS]

00:10:11   that was preserved through into the [TS]

00:10:13   series as well Ren what about you [TS]

00:10:15   I only heard about sherlock about a week [TS]

00:10:17   before premiered on the BBC where I just [TS]

00:10:20   heard out of nowhere I think Neil game [TS]

00:10:22   and said something about it on Twitter [TS]

00:10:23   and I was like oh they're making a new [TS]

00:10:25   version of Sherlock Holmes how have I [TS]

00:10:27   not heard about this cuz I'm huge huge [TS]

00:10:30   fan of sherlock holmes and so went out [TS]

00:10:33   found it and I i really love this series [TS]

00:10:38   I mean I i was skeptical the first five [TS]

00:10:41   minutes because of you know I John [TS]

00:10:44   Watson psychiatrist being like john i [TS]

00:10:47   really think that blogging would be a [TS]

00:10:48   great idea and outright for you [TS]

00:10:51   yeah oh my gosh I i add that that I'm [TS]

00:10:54   like oh god this is this is gonna be [TS]

00:10:56   terrible what have you done Steven [TS]

00:10:57   Moffat but then like it really ramps up [TS]

00:11:00   from there the humor and they nice means [TS]

00:11:02   only three 90-minute episodes but really [TS]

00:11:05   we get so much in such a short span of [TS]

00:11:08   time between Watson and homes and their [TS]

00:11:12   relationship and you get it within [TS]

00:11:14   minutes [TS]

00:11:15   that's so fantastic I love that homes is [TS]

00:11:18   introduced by text message i was again [TS]

00:11:21   things things about technology that i [TS]

00:11:23   was skeptical about when i initially [TS]

00:11:25   sought and then as soon as you kind of [TS]

00:11:28   accept the trope it actually really [TS]

00:11:30   works out like we get home just text [TS]

00:11:33   messaging this entire crowd and then you [TS]

00:11:35   get him [TS]

00:11:36   hey cps you know where to find me only [TS]

00:11:39   text me and i don't know it's just it's [TS]

00:11:43   interesting because you have you have [TS]

00:11:46   the homes of the early nineteen others [TS]

00:11:48   and you have that world but it's really [TS]

00:11:51   interesting and that you know Holmes was [TS]

00:11:54   still even in that time period very much [TS]

00:11:57   an innovator and very much into [TS]

00:11:59   technology of that time so it only makes [TS]

00:12:01   sense that when u transpose it into the [TS]

00:12:03   modern era that he still kind of picked [TS]

00:12:06   up these quirks and [TS]

00:12:07   still using these sort of things there's [TS]

00:12:09   some interesting visual flourishes in [TS]

00:12:11   this in this series and you mentioned [TS]

00:12:13   the text message brings it up one of the [TS]

00:12:14   things that they decided to do is flash [TS]

00:12:16   things on the screen as they're [TS]

00:12:18   happening essentially sort of annotating [TS]

00:12:20   what that people are reading on their [TS]

00:12:21   cell phones by bringing up missed ya huh [TS]

00:12:24   that pop up so you can see what's on the [TS]

00:12:26   phone without cutting through the phone [TS]

00:12:27   and having your reader which I thought [TS]

00:12:28   was an interesting idea i'm not sure [TS]

00:12:30   whether it worked or not but it was [TS]

00:12:32   certainly unlike anything i've really [TS]

00:12:33   seen in a Drama before is the most [TS]

00:12:35   aggressive use of typography since [TS]

00:12:37   fringe of anybody watches friends just [TS]

00:12:39   massive floating giant headlines alright [TS]

00:12:42   so in Sherlock they had their little bit [TS]

00:12:45   nicer they were 2d and they appeared and [TS]

00:12:47   disappeared but it was like really you [TS]

00:12:48   know typography in your face you know [TS]

00:12:50   you couldn't not notice that this was I [TS]

00:12:52   like that I like that television show is [TS]

00:12:53   encouraging reading [TS]

00:12:54   yes that's right that's always important [TS]

00:12:56   you must be literate to watch the show I [TS]

00:12:58   think it's good to to mention the [TS]

00:13:00   supporting characters to both the the [TS]

00:13:02   actors in the parts is you know that [TS]

00:13:04   Holmes books are full of oil books are [TS]

00:13:06   full of thousands supporting characters [TS]

00:13:08   in Baker Street Irregulars and you know [TS]

00:13:10   mrs. Hudson and all the various [TS]

00:13:13   inspectors he deals with in constables [TS]

00:13:14   and so forth and even a limited period [TS]

00:13:17   of the first three shows we got [TS]

00:13:18   introduced to a bit of that world and [TS]

00:13:20   homes relationship you know about [TS]

00:13:23   Mycroft I mean I like Mark Gatiss little [TS]

00:13:25   bit i think he's hilarious and I thought [TS]

00:13:27   he was what a great red herring her [TS]

00:13:29   first by the way oh my gosh yeah and [TS]

00:13:31   harmonies he he's evil he must be [TS]

00:13:34   Moriarty know it's his brother but you [TS]

00:13:37   know that's the thing is Mycroft is not [TS]

00:13:39   an evil man my craft in the books and in [TS]

00:13:41   all of the subsequent works that have [TS]

00:13:43   been created from them [TS]

00:13:44   Mycroft is the spider at the center of [TS]

00:13:46   the web that's pulling the threads of [TS]

00:13:48   the Empire be in you know in the 19th [TS]

00:13:50   century early 20th century [TS]

00:13:51   he's the British Empire personified more [TS]

00:13:54   than the King really in the books I mean [TS]

00:13:56   that's sort of them the conceit there [TS]

00:13:58   that the king at you know the government [TS]

00:13:59   asks for something in my craft send [TS]

00:14:01   assassins or upset the government would [TS]

00:14:03   have you and now he's deeply involved in [TS]

00:14:06   sort of the same way at mi what they [TS]

00:14:07   saying that was it like oh he's mi7 do [TS]

00:14:09   they make a joke is on you get the sense [TS]

00:14:11   that he's at the center of homeland [TS]

00:14:13   security for the British government [TS]

00:14:14   right [TS]

00:14:15   telligence oh so he is sort of you know [TS]

00:14:17   some lovely isn't evil mastermind you [TS]

00:14:19   can't be in that [TS]

00:14:20   just not the one you were thinking of it [TS]

00:14:22   said this is not the mastermind what you [TS]

00:14:23   think what does everybody think of the [TS]

00:14:25   casting of Benedict Cumberbatch I love [TS]

00:14:28   saying that name Benedict Cumberbatch he [TS]

00:14:31   has any free megashare lock homes [TS]

00:14:33   yes yes and more and Martin Freeman tim [TS]

00:14:36   from the UK office and and and Arthur [TS]

00:14:39   Dent as well as Watson I think they give [TS]

00:14:42   Martin Freeman a great chance to sort of [TS]

00:14:43   stretch and and become he's very much [TS]

00:14:46   homes conscience in this show right he's [TS]

00:14:49   sort of his his personal interaction [TS]

00:14:52   with the world around when Holmes is [TS]

00:14:54   very aloof and sort of above everything [TS]

00:14:55   that's going on Watson is the one who's [TS]

00:14:57   dealing with the reality is you know [TS]

00:15:00   that the second episode there's a part [TS]

00:15:01   where you know that he offers to homes [TS]

00:15:04   agrees to do a job at a bank for an old [TS]

00:15:06   friend and then when the friend offers [TS]

00:15:08   to you know give me an advance home sort [TS]

00:15:10   of scoffs at it and walks off and [TS]

00:15:11   watching you nobody ever the practical [TS]

00:15:13   ones like now I didn't mean that let me [TS]

00:15:14   just take that that check for you and I [TS]

00:15:17   think your surrogate to really write [TS]

00:15:18   well and in some ways as with the [TS]

00:15:20   original stories they're they're almost [TS]

00:15:22   more Watson's stories i mean the first [TS]

00:15:24   episode in general where you which [TS]

00:15:25   describes you know watching coming back [TS]

00:15:26   from the war and I think that was kind [TS]

00:15:28   of the thing that that sort of conceit [TS]

00:15:29   was the the what got me when I first was [TS]

00:15:31   reading about the show is having wants [TS]

00:15:32   in return from Afghanistan which is back [TS]

00:15:34   exactly the same thing as the books it's [TS]

00:15:37   just it's a different war but it's sort [TS]

00:15:40   of the same war at the same time [TS]

00:15:41   question he was an old Indian hand he's [TS]

00:15:43   an old Afghan hand oh yeah he's yeah [TS]

00:15:45   he's definitely got a long i guess and [TS]

00:15:46   that's what getting this garrison a home [TS]

00:15:48   office said that's what that's what [TS]

00:15:50   inspired them sort of started and [TS]

00:15:51   talking about it was like hey you know [TS]

00:15:53   this he was this veteran coming back [TS]

00:15:55   from Afghanistan wait we still have a [TS]

00:15:57   war going in Afghanistan all these years [TS]

00:15:59   later and i think you know having him [TS]

00:16:00   deal with coming back from war and [TS]

00:16:02   dealing with like sort of a [TS]

00:16:03   post-traumatic stress and getting [TS]

00:16:05   involved with this i just love his [TS]

00:16:06   character and i love the way the martin [TS]

00:16:08   freeman delivered some of these lines [TS]

00:16:09   you know as you start trying feeling out [TS]

00:16:11   this Sherlock I and and trying to decide [TS]

00:16:13   if you should get involved with them and [TS]

00:16:14   then there's that one scene where our [TS]

00:16:15   homes comes back in and says [TS]

00:16:18   actually an army doctrine [TS]

00:16:21   yes any good very good see a lot of [TS]

00:16:29   injuries then violent deaths [TS]

00:16:32   yes the trouble to that of course yes [TS]

00:16:36   enough for a lifetime far too much wanna [TS]

00:16:40   see some more know god yes like the way [TS]

00:16:42   it is the delivery on that is just spot [TS]

00:16:45   on your favorite line address episode [TS]

00:16:47   has to be [TS]

00:16:48   yeah well free is great i think he's [TS]

00:16:50   awesome it this is also the Moffett [TS]

00:16:52   pattern that Doctor Who homes [TS]

00:16:54   I mean certainly the Sherlock Holmes [TS]

00:16:57   books give you this scenario gives you [TS]

00:16:58   the template for Doctor Who and the [TS]

00:17:00   companion story right is to enter a [TS]

00:17:02   Jekyll in their alliance in general [TS]

00:17:04   that's our controller just for a little [TS]

00:17:06   twist well of course it's he's got it [TS]

00:17:08   hot and cold thing going on because it [TS]

00:17:10   wasn't dr. Jekyll and mr. Hyde but it's [TS]

00:17:12   a similar kind of kind of thing I think [TS]

00:17:14   yeah the doctor has to have his [TS]

00:17:16   companions who remind him that even [TS]

00:17:18   though he's all-powerful that he's got [TS]

00:17:20   to you know that he's there are pitiful [TS]

00:17:22   pictures all around him and holds the [TS]

00:17:24   same thing he's most exalted playing he [TS]

00:17:25   lives in the mind it's all a game to him [TS]

00:17:27   and suddenly it's like this old lady's [TS]

00:17:29   gonna die [TS]

00:17:29   you know there's a bomb on her she's [TS]

00:17:31   gonna die are you remembering that and [TS]

00:17:32   that of course of remembering that even [TS]

00:17:34   though maybe he didn't you can't be a [TS]

00:17:36   coincidence that the two favorite things [TS]

00:17:37   of Steven Moffat childhood were Doctor [TS]

00:17:39   Who and Sherlock Holmes they do have [TS]

00:17:40   this character at the center and you can [TS]

00:17:43   see you can see it and so it is [TS]

00:17:45   fascinating to see him launch this [TS]

00:17:47   revisiting of sherlock holmes this [TS]

00:17:49   changing of that story and at the same [TS]

00:17:51   time also he's done this [TS]

00:17:53   rebooting well not really but he's [TS]

00:17:55   following on our of somebody else's [TS]

00:17:57   reboot but he's got is reimagining of [TS]

00:17:58   the of the doctor who series and with [TS]

00:18:01   Jack similarly he was taking a literary [TS]

00:18:03   character and pulling them into the the [TS]

00:18:05   20th century 21st century and at the [TS]

00:18:08   time I thought Jekyll was his [TS]

00:18:10   application for the Doctor Who job and [TS]

00:18:12   now i'm starting to think it might have [TS]

00:18:14   also been his application to to do [TS]

00:18:16   Sherlock because I can see the [TS]

00:18:17   similarities there as well i'm going to [TS]

00:18:19   bring in I like to set the potential [TS]

00:18:21   meter to 10 for just a moment can bring [TS]

00:18:23   in jorge luis borges his story salon [TS]

00:18:26   board orbea Sturgis which is about [TS]

00:18:28   encyclopedias well that'll be the name [TS]

00:18:30   of this episode [TS]

00:18:31   excellent it's a sci-fi there's a sci-fi [TS]

00:18:34   11 creeping in [TS]

00:18:35   but this notion that story that you can [TS]

00:18:37   change the world by defining it and I [TS]

00:18:39   think both homes as like the smartest [TS]

00:18:41   person in the world and the doctor is [TS]

00:18:43   you know you can blow up the universe [TS]

00:18:44   and bring the universe back that Moffat [TS]

00:18:47   certainly has an interest in people who [TS]

00:18:49   can define reality who can who can shape [TS]

00:18:52   it and make it approachable so the [TS]

00:18:54   unknowable parts of the world are [TS]

00:18:56   actually created noble by these people [TS]

00:18:58   who have intellect or ability that you [TS]

00:19:00   know goes beyond anything that a human [TS]

00:19:02   could have a normal human doesn't a [TS]

00:19:04   sameness bother anybody or maybe I'm the [TS]

00:19:06   only one but like when i started [TS]

00:19:08   watching sherlock i felt like oh this [TS]

00:19:10   must have been the runner-up forecasting [TS]

00:19:12   the doctor in order might as well be the [TS]

00:19:13   twelfth doctor who dwells guys 80s actor [TS]

00:19:16   and the option turning down the job he [TS]

00:19:19   was not actually didn't know that job [TS]

00:19:21   first and he turned down the job I i [TS]

00:19:23   just read a thing today saying that he [TS]

00:19:25   denied that he was off the bat really [TS]

00:19:27   but regardless whether he was our [TS]

00:19:29   particular things actor playing that [TS]

00:19:31   though right I absolutely look at him [TS]

00:19:32   and and the way he's written he's [TS]

00:19:34   written a lot like the doctor too [TS]

00:19:35   I mean it i'm not a big Charlotte guy [TS]

00:19:38   from way back so I don't have like the [TS]

00:19:39   the the books and everything in my head [TS]

00:19:41   so I'm just taking this as what it is [TS]

00:19:42   you know Sherlock I know the basic [TS]

00:19:44   outline let's see what they're going to [TS]

00:19:45   do with it and you can kind of see if [TS]

00:19:47   you took away the doctors magic powers [TS]

00:19:49   and alienness and made him a detective [TS]

00:19:51   and put them in the modern world this [TS]

00:19:54   would be kind of how we acted and how we [TS]

00:19:57   ended up and I think it's an interesting [TS]

00:19:58   look at how smart people are in the [TS]

00:20:00   modern world versus how smart people are [TS]

00:20:02   in the Victorian time you know he ends [TS]

00:20:04   up being basically kind of a geek a [TS]

00:20:05   little bit socially strange but we have [TS]

00:20:07   words for the social things now so he's [TS]

00:20:08   more aware of them because the world is [TS]

00:20:10   more aware of it you know he's not even [TS]

00:20:12   your alien as an excuse for it right but [TS]

00:20:14   in the Victorian times he would be [TS]

00:20:16   respected but now we know like a smart [TS]

00:20:18   pico Asperger's syndrome or you know [TS]

00:20:20   attention deficit or you know [TS]

00:20:21   high-functioning autistic all these [TS]

00:20:23   words that are in the common knowledge [TS]

00:20:25   now he fits into that molar and [TS]

00:20:27   Victorian times you just being eccentric [TS]

00:20:28   genius but now we kind of know exactly [TS]

00:20:30   what's wrong with him so he knows more [TS]

00:20:32   what's wrong with them so i thought that [TS]

00:20:33   was interesting but he does look a [TS]

00:20:35   little dr.e to me like the whole time [TS]

00:20:37   through you know i got it started off [TS]

00:20:39   and everything [TS]

00:20:40   yeah yeah you know he's got a companion [TS]

00:20:42   who happens to be a guy but they do all [TS]

00:20:43   the gay jokes with that which i love [TS]

00:20:45   that was there a great part of the [TS]

00:20:46   series to you know perpetual people [TS]

00:20:49   mistaking them for a couple but i don't [TS]

00:20:51   i don't disagree with you about the [TS]

00:20:52   doctor the doctor nice but i think it's [TS]

00:20:53   i think the doctor clearly borrowed me [TS]

00:20:56   not the early i mean i never watched the [TS]

00:20:58   first doctor the second part we was the [TS]

00:21:00   first time I really saw any length 1 / 3 [TS]

00:21:02   writer for number three and and we [TS]

00:21:05   always had a bit too soon didn't I geek [TS]

00:21:07   chest of but let you know in tom baker [TS]

00:21:10   certainly not either but when you get as [TS]

00:21:11   the series progressed you get this [TS]

00:21:13   pattern of the wise mentor and the sort [TS]

00:21:15   of fallible person who brings humanity [TS]

00:21:18   and whatever it is very much a home's [TS]

00:21:20   pattern and i think i have to believe [TS]

00:21:22   the Doctor Who writers always had from [TS]

00:21:24   all this for many of the series had [TS]

00:21:25   offended if you are so it's not that odd [TS]

00:21:27   that Holmes portrayed in a reasonably [TS]

00:21:29   accurate way in the modern time would [TS]

00:21:31   actually feel very dr. wish now I'm not [TS]

00:21:33   saying that's wrong so much just that [TS]

00:21:35   you know this is the show just about [TS]

00:21:37   kind of mafia type things or you know if [TS]

00:21:39   you watch a lot of that you start like I [TS]

00:21:42   don't know I sometimes I might want to [TS]

00:21:43   see something different thing is this [TS]

00:21:44   all you can do can you only do the story [TS]

00:21:46   of the amazing genius and and the human [TS]

00:21:48   who's caught up in his weapon Howie you [TS]

00:21:49   know give you know that's where playing [TS]

00:21:52   where your doc is obviously the amazing [TS]

00:21:54   genius at the center and Patrick and and [TS]

00:21:59   Steve key balanced as his faithful [TS]

00:22:02   companions as he heads toward his [TS]

00:22:03   inevitable confrontation with the multi [TS]

00:22:05   man just so embarrassing I don't know [TS]

00:22:07   what to do it was all made all of us in [TS]

00:22:10   our time are visited by the melty man [TS]

00:22:12   don't say his name patrick don't even [TS]

00:22:15   think his name or he will rise from the [TS]

00:22:18   shadow dimensions to do is evil work [TS]

00:22:20   inside you're terrified pants [TS]

00:22:24   czech republic but there's nothing funny [TS]

00:22:27   about the melting man Patrick you know [TS]

00:22:31   about the melting man 2 we all know the [TS]

00:22:33   melting man who is e the archenemy of [TS]

00:22:36   transit confidence Professor Moriarty in [TS]

00:22:40   growing form Darth Vader without the [TS]

00:22:42   helmet so Moriarty appears at the end of [TS]

00:22:44   the third episode finally of Sherlock [TS]

00:22:46   what what do you what do you think I [TS]

00:22:47   know it's controversial he's a little [TS]

00:22:48   over-the-top yeah I like that though [TS]

00:22:50   because as a foil to our to our Sherlock [TS]

00:22:53   was so clearly you know a social misfit [TS]

00:22:56   I you know I have to admit I was the [TS]

00:22:57   first time and I had a I had a hard time [TS]

00:22:58   with a guy because I was trying to pin [TS]

00:22:59   down his accent which seem to keep [TS]

00:23:01   switching but i think that's the point i [TS]

00:23:03   think no I agree I agree I when I [TS]

00:23:05   watched it again [TS]

00:23:06   I thought there's there's a [TS]

00:23:08   deliberateness to this that I really [TS]

00:23:10   enjoy with him he kind of goes back [TS]

00:23:11   forth between I think the actors himself [TS]

00:23:13   as Irish I think he goes back before the [TS]

00:23:15   Irish British sort of a pompous British [TS]

00:23:18   accent and then even American a couple [TS]

00:23:20   points and I just but i really enjoyed [TS]

00:23:23   his delivery there's something about how [TS]

00:23:25   relaxed he is how we literally in a way [TS]

00:23:27   that you know Sherlock is not Sherlock [TS]

00:23:30   we always seems to be running you're [TS]

00:23:31   running around a little bit high-strung [TS]

00:23:32   this guy is very calm very collected and [TS]

00:23:36   i love that he you know at least you [TS]

00:23:38   know where that sort twist at the end [TS]

00:23:39   with him you think he's gonna kind of go [TS]

00:23:41   I'm gonna let you go to live another day [TS]

00:23:43   and then it sort of comes back you know [TS]

00:23:45   to not pull that that typical villain [TS]

00:23:48   trope of i'm going to explain my plans [TS]

00:23:49   and now you're going to defeat me [TS]

00:23:51   so you know we we don't exactly know how [TS]

00:23:53   this how this ends up and we will see [TS]

00:23:55   going into the next series presumably [TS]

00:23:57   but I thought he was great i enjoyed a [TS]

00:23:58   lot [TS]

00:23:59   yeah we didn't need just another you [TS]

00:24:00   know every home is always the [TS]

00:24:02   white-haired man hobbled with a clean a [TS]

00:24:04   spider at the center of the web as usual [TS]

00:24:07   it's always a spider web isn't who can [TS]

00:24:09   pulls all the strings and control all [TS]

00:24:10   the crime in London and beyond instead [TS]

00:24:12   it was this fresh take surprising i was [TS]

00:24:15   completely I was like flabbergasted like [TS]

00:24:17   always make this the most unlikely [TS]

00:24:19   person but he matches homes and skill [TS]

00:24:22   and it has a consultant criminal like [TS]

00:24:24   what a great flip from from you know [TS]

00:24:26   homes consulting detective [TS]

00:24:28   yes consultant criminal oh it's [TS]

00:24:30   fantastic and his movement [TS]

00:24:31   I could not get enough of his movement [TS]

00:24:35   where it's as you said dance very it's [TS]

00:24:37   very loose but at the same time he has [TS]

00:24:39   this wonderful control over everything [TS]

00:24:42   where he just kind of flips out and it [TS]

00:24:44   almost cost to mind you know Charlie [TS]

00:24:47   Chaplin to a certain extent just he has [TS]

00:24:49   such fantastic timing and you just have [TS]

00:24:51   no idea what he's going to do and I [TS]

00:24:53   appreciate that he has like this Legion [TS]

00:24:55   of snipers that are everywhere [TS]

00:24:58   the Legion of snipers yes I loved his [TS]

00:25:00   introduction to when he was a in the lab [TS]

00:25:02   you know what the passing that the [TS]

00:25:04   telephone number because that was there [TS]

00:25:05   was a payoff on a running gag of the [TS]

00:25:07   poor assistant not being able to you [TS]

00:25:09   know get a date with Charlotte or [TS]

00:25:10   whatever and he was brought in charlotte [TS]

00:25:12   connotes that he's gay and crushes are [TS]

00:25:14   once more that was the perfect cover for [TS]

00:25:16   hiding and totally fails to write like [TS]

00:25:18   he totally misses that this guy is the [TS]

00:25:20   guy he right before that was the perfect [TS]

00:25:22   cover for the viewer because the viewer [TS]

00:25:24   did not say hope that I bet that's amore [TS]

00:25:25   order know you thought they were having [TS]

00:25:27   another scene 2 to play off of the [TS]

00:25:28   assistant and you know it's it's it's a [TS]

00:25:31   funny scene to write so that usually [TS]

00:25:33   when they show that the other guy like [TS]

00:25:34   that you get a clue like oh I bet that [TS]

00:25:35   could that's more I hear that some [TS]

00:25:36   important guy dismissed at least one [TS]

00:25:39   pass me when totally passed me I had no [TS]

00:25:40   idea that was gonna be Moriarty has a [TS]

00:25:42   note if anybody has not gone online and [TS]

00:25:44   read the blogs for the show which [TS]

00:25:47   actually exist like Sherlock's website [TS]

00:25:48   and Watson's blog [TS]

00:25:50   oh they're linked off the BBC site [TS]

00:25:52   they're hilarious read the comments [TS]

00:25:54   the lab the lab assistant poor Molly has [TS]

00:25:56   a blog with like cats all over it and [TS]

00:25:58   everything and the comments are all [TS]

00:26:00   comments like left by the other [TS]

00:26:01   characters in the show so i can have [TS]

00:26:03   Watson's recap of the story and ensure [TS]

00:26:05   like correcting him in the comments of [TS]

00:26:07   all like the things you got wrong it's [TS]

00:26:09   so what does a sponge-like viral type [TS]

00:26:12   marketing I've ever seen [TS]

00:26:14   it's all going to read that for the next [TS]

00:26:15   year and a half I guess yeah well I mean [TS]

00:26:17   that it's not mean it's sort of like set [TS]

00:26:19   right now I mean it's what's interesting [TS]

00:26:20   also is that the most recent stuff on it [TS]

00:26:22   and I don't think they're updating it [TS]

00:26:23   right now the most recent stuff on it [TS]

00:26:25   sort of builds on the last episode which [TS]

00:26:27   is that you have sarah watson sort of [TS]

00:26:30   would-be girlfriend posting comments on [TS]

00:26:32   the blog by asking like has anybody [TS]

00:26:34   heard from John you know and you're like [TS]

00:26:36   your kind of left with that same [TS]

00:26:37   cliffhanger ending and family did the [TS]

00:26:39   three episodes we will be waiting for [TS]

00:26:41   more than probably hear ya to see more [TS]

00:26:44   of this [TS]

00:26:45   it's of it at least we'll have doctor [TS]

00:26:46   who in the middle to bridge it and that [TS]

00:26:52   sound you hear is the sound of a [TS]

00:26:53   shifting gears slightly to talk about [TS]

00:26:55   Doctor Who more because i think we've [TS]

00:26:56   already grinding the gears so will shift [TS]

00:26:58   like that's hard to sound in there on [TS]

00:27:00   about me as if that's the best part of [TS]

00:27:05   this podcast yet left the brakes that [TS]

00:27:07   that's right that's right [TS]

00:27:09   still the blue stabilisers just so one [TS]

00:27:11   of the one of the knocks on Moffat [TS]

00:27:12   coming in and taking over for Russell T [TS]

00:27:14   Davis is that in many ways I think you [TS]

00:27:18   could argue that that in in his [TS]

00:27:19   acclaimed episodes that he wrote the [TS]

00:27:22   Mafia wrote the Davis run he probably [TS]

00:27:25   for at least the first few of them [TS]

00:27:28   didn't really know whether he was going [TS]

00:27:29   to ever get the rains or whether he [TS]

00:27:32   wanted them or whether he would take [TS]

00:27:33   them or whether it will happen and he [TS]

00:27:35   got the opportunity to write for doctor [TS]

00:27:36   who his favorite show is a kid so he was [TS]

00:27:38   like I'm gonna do I'm gonna pull out all [TS]

00:27:40   the stops and he wrote these episodes [TS]

00:27:41   that are acclaimed and that everybody [TS]

00:27:43   more or less loves and I i agree i think [TS]

00:27:46   that there that they were generally [TS]

00:27:47   great now the knock on him is that now [TS]

00:27:49   he's got to do a 13-episode season [TS]

00:27:52   followed by a special and then another [TS]

00:27:54   13 episodes to come and that perhaps he [TS]

00:27:56   used his best material and chose to sort [TS]

00:27:59   of go back over it a little bit and I [TS]

00:28:01   know that I don't know what you guys [TS]

00:28:02   think of that now I'm not sure I [TS]

00:28:04   entirely by it but it's not something [TS]

00:28:05   that all writers fear though we have [TS]

00:28:08   that I mean that that's the trick is can [TS]

00:28:09   you maybe it's can you not repeat [TS]

00:28:11   yourself or can you file off the serial [TS]

00:28:12   numbers enough that nobody notices that [TS]

00:28:14   you're repeating yourself and i recently [TS]

00:28:16   watched the finale again of Doctor Who [TS]

00:28:17   and I had several moments where i was [TS]

00:28:19   thinking of this this is silence in the [TS]

00:28:21   library [TS]

00:28:22   mhm in many ways this is the same plot [TS]

00:28:25   just with some different characters and [TS]

00:28:28   some slightly different stakes so I you [TS]

00:28:31   know I enjoyed the season on the whole [TS]

00:28:32   though there's a part in the middle [TS]

00:28:34   where I thought it was totally off the [TS]

00:28:35   rails and was going to crash and burn in [TS]

00:28:37   the end I liked how it was resolved but [TS]

00:28:39   i do think it's an interesting question [TS]

00:28:40   about whether i'm steven moffat sort of [TS]

00:28:43   blew his wad when Davis was running the [TS]

00:28:45   show and then when he took over he sort [TS]

00:28:47   of had sale crap i think i think the [TS]

00:28:49   saving graces have been the the casting [TS]

00:28:51   and the performances and lava dialogue I [TS]

00:28:54   mean [TS]

00:28:54   think that is regardless of his sort of [TS]

00:28:56   plot structures of points which I agree [TS]

00:28:57   if sometimes you know veered towards the [TS]

00:28:59   repetitive I think he still craft such a [TS]

00:29:01   great set of interchanges between his [TS]

00:29:04   characters and that the carrot the [TS]

00:29:06   actors were bringing those characters to [TS]

00:29:08   like do such a good job but for me I'm [TS]

00:29:10   through to a certain extent willing to [TS]

00:29:12   overlook some of the weaknesses in plot [TS]

00:29:14   just for the sheer sort of [TS]

00:29:15   moment-to-moment enjoyment and then who [TS]

00:29:18   Jason Reitman who didn't see sherlock is [TS]

00:29:20   gonna jump in here because otherwise he [TS]

00:29:21   may he's playing Scott McNulty from the [TS]

00:29:23   first episode where you say anything for [TS]

00:29:25   the first half had and I was his chance [TS]

00:29:26   and I know he wants to jump in here [TS]

00:29:28   yeah i think the well it clearly there's [TS]

00:29:30   different skills in writing episodes and [TS]

00:29:32   being a showrunner you know moffatts [TS]

00:29:34   writing is is brilliant amazing and he [TS]

00:29:37   has written most of the best episodes [TS]

00:29:39   since the series relaunched in 2005 but [TS]

00:29:42   i think what you could see in this last [TS]

00:29:44   series was this is certainly an evenness [TS]

00:29:47   that you didn't have with Davies running [TS]

00:29:50   it and I could have been because Davis [TS]

00:29:53   rewrote everything episode right but [TS]

00:29:55   didn't exactly and so I i think that [TS]

00:29:58   caused unevenness in the series and also [TS]

00:30:00   Moffat rights best you know that [TS]

00:30:03   dialogue and the conversations which are [TS]

00:30:04   so amazing and let these great actors [TS]

00:30:07   kind of true on stuff but heed his [TS]

00:30:10   episodes you saw this towards the later [TS]

00:30:12   ones like silence and he sometimes gets [TS]

00:30:14   a little has too much plots and my too [TS]

00:30:16   many good ideas that he tries to throw [TS]

00:30:18   in if you look at the the second one the [TS]

00:30:20   Beast below you know that had the city's [TS]

00:30:23   flying in space and the winders and the [TS]

00:30:25   Queen and this every you know it had so [TS]

00:30:27   much plot that it really took away from [TS]

00:30:29   the dialogue because it didn't leave [TS]

00:30:31   room for the characters in a way that [TS]

00:30:33   that episode which I didn't like but I [TS]

00:30:35   did feel was one was almost like an old [TS]

00:30:38   style for part or six-part Doctor Who [TS]

00:30:41   serial from the seventies where they [TS]

00:30:42   were when all those ideas and have so [TS]

00:30:44   much time to explore all the ideas but [TS]

00:30:46   spent 45 minutes the only time a lot of [TS]

00:30:48   hardcore fans of the old show will say [TS]

00:30:50   oh I wish they would still do it where [TS]

00:30:51   the episodes went on forever and they [TS]

00:30:53   ran up and down corridors and I don't [TS]

00:30:55   believe that but that episode felt to me [TS]

00:30:57   like it really needed to be that if it [TS]

00:30:59   was going to be anything because it was [TS]

00:31:01   just crammed full of this stuff and then [TS]

00:31:02   it all just flew by [TS]

00:31:03   you know what is really missing was the [TS]

00:31:05   shot of a quarry in whale [TS]

00:31:07   miss but i'm sure there was a quarry in [TS]

00:31:09   there somewhere if you look at his [TS]

00:31:10   episodes like blink you know it had this [TS]

00:31:12   order one bad guy with the one idea you [TS]

00:31:15   know great alien great concept great [TS]

00:31:18   structure really well put together and [TS]

00:31:21   you compare that to something like the [TS]

00:31:22   Beast below or even the angel two-parter [TS]

00:31:25   yeah experience it too many ideas really [TS]

00:31:28   see me seems to trip over himself a lot [TS]

00:31:30   what what the British might call over [TS]

00:31:32   egging the pudding excellent brittish's [TS]

00:31:35   in there Dan which is to say too much [TS]

00:31:36   like like Jason saying too much of a [TS]

00:31:38   good thing maybe like showing off a [TS]

00:31:40   little too much like I think that's your [TS]

00:31:41   right with like the angels episode like [TS]

00:31:42   the second angel episode where you have [TS]

00:31:44   like all the Angels I feel like you lose [TS]

00:31:47   something because it loses a little bit [TS]

00:31:48   of the specialness of the like it was [TS]

00:31:50   really creepy when you're like one away [TS]

00:31:51   from like like one angel but when you [TS]

00:31:54   get like 50 it so it sort of turns into [TS]

00:31:56   like a like a zombie movie instead [TS]

00:31:58   post thriller well again he went back to [TS]

00:32:00   the angel well they're speaking of [TS]

00:32:01   repeating yourself you know I know you [TS]

00:32:03   might be willing to forgive him but did [TS]

00:32:04   go back to the angel well business like [TS]

00:32:06   one episode of my best known for what's [TS]

00:32:08   my best episode angels everybody loves [TS]

00:32:09   angels let's do a two-parter doctor who [TS]

00:32:11   has never shied away from repeating [TS]

00:32:13   months i I'm not like I'm not [TS]

00:32:14   complaining about the dielectric or [TS]

00:32:16   anything i'm just saying the angels in [TS]

00:32:17   particular where were you know that it's [TS]

00:32:20   our signature marker and to bring them [TS]

00:32:22   back for a double episode feels a little [TS]

00:32:23   bit lazy butt but I feel like with [TS]

00:32:25   anything except her hard sci-fi the [TS]

00:32:27   story matters much less than the [TS]

00:32:29   characters and that better be the case [TS]

00:32:30   because I think a lot of Doctor Who [TS]

00:32:31   stories are not very good sci-fi i'm not [TS]

00:32:34   a big fan of you know that it's taken [TS]

00:32:36   from size perspective you so synopsis [TS]

00:32:38   you'd save me I have been there market [TS]

00:32:40   after says they're not satisfy right out [TS]

00:32:43   it's a fairytale and and that's how it [TS]

00:32:45   plays out but if the characters are good [TS]

00:32:46   and you're invested in what they're [TS]

00:32:47   doing you're willing to okay fine [TS]

00:32:49   alien whatever you know angel whatever [TS]

00:32:51   if you make a universe you have some [TS]

00:32:53   sort of set of rules you have to have [TS]

00:32:54   some sort of consistency among them [TS]

00:32:56   whatever you decide the rules are the [TS]

00:32:57   rules are magic their black holes act [TS]

00:32:59   like X and they have to always act like [TS]

00:33:00   anywhere as Doctor Who they're much more [TS]

00:33:02   willing to change the rules from not [TS]

00:33:04   just from season to season or doctor to [TS]

00:33:06   doctor but from like moment-to-moment in [TS]

00:33:08   an episode yet before this type of alien [TS]

00:33:10   apparel is this time danger but now he [TS]

00:33:11   doesn't they made fun of that in the [TS]

00:33:12   dream Lord yeah a little bit a cold star [TS]

00:33:15   as we get closer to its colder and [TS]

00:33:17   colder [TS]

00:33:18   three of us have to agree now which is [TS]

00:33:20   the dream it's this [TS]

00:33:22   yeah people need science is all wrong [TS]

00:33:24   here burning ice out I scumbag so far as [TS]

00:33:27   can be [TS]

00:33:28   it's a big universe we have to include [TS]

00:33:29   which battle to lose all of us so let's [TS]

00:33:32   talk about the character of the doctor [TS]

00:33:33   but compared you know now with Moffat [TS]

00:33:36   running things to davis's doctor and not [TS]

00:33:39   necessarily tenant but just a doctor [TS]

00:33:41   character with it what's interesting is [TS]

00:33:43   I had an argument with a friend out what [TS]

00:33:45   I will just mention tenant really quick [TS]

00:33:46   I an argument with a friend because he [TS]

00:33:47   thought going into the Steven Moffat [TS]

00:33:49   season you look at seem too much to me [TS]

00:33:50   like they're trying to recapture like [TS]

00:33:52   the david tennant glory with you know [TS]

00:33:54   the mat smith character and it's like I [TS]

00:33:56   can definitely see that to a certain [TS]

00:33:58   extent you know there is a little you [TS]

00:34:00   know he's charming offbeat slightly [TS]

00:34:02   quirky I you know like all the doctors [TS]

00:34:04   have been to a certain extent but i [TS]

00:34:05   think that there are things that are [TS]

00:34:07   profoundly different about the eleventh [TS]

00:34:08   Doctor I mean the episode that comes to [TS]

00:34:10   mind when I think what that is the [TS]

00:34:11   larger which is just such a a wacky off [TS]

00:34:14   the wall episode and his interactions [TS]

00:34:17   with people are so different from the [TS]

00:34:20   Tenth Doctor Who I think was a little [TS]

00:34:22   more you know you certainly more with it [TS]

00:34:24   like sort of on the social scale like [TS]

00:34:25   that the 11th doctor is more like the [TS]

00:34:27   the mark or they Steven Moffat sherlock [TS]

00:34:29   holmes he doesn't quite know how to [TS]

00:34:31   interact with humans [TS]

00:34:33   it's a little weird we have that great [TS]

00:34:34   scene in the first episode where he [TS]

00:34:35   keeps telling young Amy 22 cooking [TS]

00:34:38   different things and he keeps spitting [TS]

00:34:39   out all the different food and it was a [TS]

00:34:41   great Peter a bit of physicality and [TS]

00:34:43   sort of you know reminder that this [TS]

00:34:45   character is totally alien to us in many [TS]

00:34:48   ways and I think that the larger was a [TS]

00:34:50   great example of like he's totally [TS]

00:34:51   oblivious to how is affecting the lives [TS]

00:34:53   of this the the live the life of this [TS]

00:34:55   guy is living with the sort of [TS]

00:34:57   relationship with his you know would-be [TS]

00:34:59   girlfriend and I think it's just--that's [TS]

00:35:01   to me was us was a episode in which you [TS]

00:35:04   couldn't have just swapped the tenth [TS]

00:35:06   doctor in maybe the ninth doctor it's [TS]

00:35:09   amazing Christopher Eccleston's [TS]

00:35:10   performances is a bit of it i think that [TS]

00:35:12   you know Smith does a great job of [TS]

00:35:13   blending at least the ninth and tenth [TS]

00:35:15   doctors and beyond that i'm afraid that [TS]

00:35:16   my knowledge is a little slim when it [TS]

00:35:18   comes to the earlier dr. sure that's [TS]

00:35:20   what they all say ran what do you think [TS]

00:35:22   about the the transition from the temp [TS]

00:35:23   to the 11th I mean I definitely think [TS]

00:35:26   that matt smith is the 11th has a more [TS]

00:35:29   humanistic approach [TS]

00:35:31   then tenant at the same time being more [TS]

00:35:33   out of it which is really strange i mean [TS]

00:35:36   i'll go back to the larger as well Dan [TS]

00:35:37   in that I really don't think that [TS]

00:35:39   tenants doctor would have actually [TS]

00:35:41   jumped in and interacted the way that [TS]

00:35:43   Matt Smith's doctor did and you know the [TS]

00:35:46   playing of the playing football is the [TS]

00:35:47   one that immediately comes to mind [TS]

00:35:49   we got a match today probably the one [TS]

00:35:52   down if you fancy it probably a drinking [TS]

00:35:55   competition football player football [TS]

00:35:58   football football [TS]

00:36:00   yes folks played football I'm going to [TS]

00:36:02   football thing that footballs one with [TS]

00:36:04   the sticks isn't it but also I mean [TS]

00:36:07   interactions with amy and things like [TS]

00:36:08   that and that I feel like you get the [TS]

00:36:12   information from tenants dr. you get all [TS]

00:36:15   you kind of conceived the things with [TS]

00:36:17   rose and his past companions in matt [TS]

00:36:21   smith's eyes when when you kind of [TS]

00:36:23   compare it to Amy when he kind of steps [TS]

00:36:25   back from amy launching on him midseason [TS]

00:36:28   when she's just kind of trying to avoid [TS]

00:36:30   the whole wedding thing like you you see [TS]

00:36:33   all of the information that he's been [TS]

00:36:35   getting from tenants doctor but I think [TS]

00:36:37   despite sharing similar characteristics [TS]

00:36:39   these two are very different beasts they [TS]

00:36:42   have like their david tennant was always [TS]

00:36:44   very much more about the knowledge and [TS]

00:36:48   more about you know 003 near it [TS]

00:36:51   yeah exactly he's very he's very brainy [TS]

00:36:53   whereas I feel matt smith is much more [TS]

00:36:55   the doer matt smith is all right you [TS]

00:36:58   know of science [TS]

00:36:59   let's jump into it anyway I mean when [TS]

00:37:02   you think about it and you go back to [TS]

00:37:03   Steven Moffat writing certain episodes [TS]

00:37:04   the the line most comes to mind is you [TS]

00:37:08   know tiny whiny wibbly-wobbly stuff from [TS]

00:37:11   them from blank of course but I feel [TS]

00:37:13   like more of that more of Steven Moffat [TS]

00:37:16   attitude towards all the science doesn't [TS]

00:37:18   so much matter let's just go have the [TS]

00:37:20   adventure I think that's very much the [TS]

00:37:22   essence of Matt Smith's character this [TS]

00:37:24   doctor the 11th doctor started off lying [TS]

00:37:26   to his companion right from the very [TS]

00:37:28   first episode in that scene in the [TS]

00:37:30   TARDIS at the end when she said well I [TS]

00:37:32   mean fund what happened [TS]

00:37:34   doesn't always have a reason for that [TS]

00:37:35   like people yes been knocking around a [TS]

00:37:37   man for my choice botched I talking to [TS]

00:37:39   myself all the time [TS]

00:37:40   give me a break get only that's it yes [TS]

00:37:43   that just as the quiz on his monitor [TS]

00:37:51   behind him and he turns it off so she [TS]

00:37:52   doesn't see it that he had another [TS]

00:37:54   agenda right from the beginning right [TS]

00:37:57   and what about it at first he breaks his [TS]

00:37:58   promise to her right and and then and [TS]

00:38:01   damages her childhood and then he lies [TS]

00:38:03   to her right and then in the next [TS]

00:38:05   yeah yeah in the very next episode the [TS]

00:38:07   Beast below when he's telling you know I [TS]

00:38:10   just sit back and don't interfere and [TS]

00:38:11   you know don't get in trouble and fuck [TS]

00:38:14   you know just straight up and i'm [TS]

00:38:16   watching going on this doctor is a liar [TS]

00:38:18   that's right which has river song says [TS]

00:38:20   in the finale rule 1 the doctor lies no [TS]

00:38:24   more significantly this one is your [TS]

00:38:25   right is a is he's more likely to get to [TS]

00:38:28   fabricate mean tenant doctor was I think [TS]

00:38:31   honest to a fault didn't even have the [TS]

00:38:33   ability to you know he seemed to suffer [TS]

00:38:35   all this pain about it and Ernest I'm [TS]

00:38:37   thinking sorry I'm so sorry he was [TS]

00:38:39   practice [TS]

00:38:40   hi dr. character he strikes me as a [TS]

00:38:42   little bit Mary Sue you know and I'm [TS]

00:38:45   sorry to translate the doctor which will [TS]

00:38:48   help us out [TS]

00:38:48   writer easy and Mary Sue character who [TS]

00:38:50   knows everything perfectly who knows a [TS]

00:38:52   family returned traded everything he [TS]

00:38:53   tries i did not know that time when [TS]

00:38:55   we're cranking down the meter to 10 [TS]

00:38:58   Baltimore slowly so the success of the [TS]

00:39:04   doctors a character is is dependent i [TS]

00:39:06   think on how they balance that sort of [TS]

00:39:08   Mary soon as he can't be Superman BCB he [TS]

00:39:10   becomes completely uninteresting signs [TS]

00:39:12   your man and that's our hunt club you [TS]

00:39:16   have to have some sort of problem or [TS]

00:39:18   inability to deal with something or [TS]

00:39:20   crisis you need to build their ability [TS]

00:39:22   and tenants tenants thing was that he [TS]

00:39:23   always wanted to fix everything and he [TS]

00:39:25   usually did so that's a big difference [TS]

00:39:26   between him and matt smith and he had [TS]

00:39:29   this strange love hanging out with [TS]

00:39:30   humans and a weakness for them and [TS]

00:39:32   occasionally he got himself in terms of [TS]

00:39:34   his confidence and matt smith has a [TS]

00:39:36   different set of laws and I think Matt [TS]

00:39:38   Smith's laws are a little bit easier to [TS]

00:39:40   relate to because they're more like [TS]

00:39:41   feeling of alienation and not fitting in [TS]

00:39:44   and you know doing things that you might [TS]

00:39:46   regret later just because you don't have [TS]

00:39:47   the guts to make a difference you know [TS]

00:39:49   or for example at you know break his [TS]

00:39:51   promise to Amy he was accidental you [TS]

00:39:53   know like I'll be back in five minutes [TS]

00:39:54   all was about five minutes oh well write [TS]

00:39:56   that shows that doesn't really [TS]

00:39:58   understand how humans work quite yet [TS]

00:39:59   it's not a big deal to him but it's a [TS]

00:40:01   big deal to her and and we relate to [TS]

00:40:03   that as a character flaw even if he [TS]

00:40:04   doesn't think it's a flaw so I think [TS]

00:40:06   that really helps to balance him he's [TS]

00:40:08   more callous which I kind of like [TS]

00:40:09   because it's a little bit too much [TS]

00:40:10   sometimes you're just like that is the [TS]

00:40:12   tenth thing you can't save the universe [TS]

00:40:13   all the time you can try but you're not [TS]

00:40:15   always going to succeed in there's no [TS]

00:40:16   but apparently you always succeed since [TS]

00:40:19   we're still here to protect her but you [TS]

00:40:21   know us reboot the universe right that [TS]

00:40:23   was I mean that that's a funny thing I [TS]

00:40:25   we should you know I I mean where is all [TS]

00:40:27   spoilers all spoilers all the time but [TS]

00:40:30   yeah the fact that the universe blows up [TS]

00:40:31   and it's like oh all we need to do is [TS]

00:40:33   reaching her the the earth still exists [TS]

00:40:35   for no particular reason and but things [TS]

00:40:37   are getting worse suddenly now and this [TS]

00:40:39   giant cube that's been the theme of the [TS]

00:40:42   whatever is no longer important and [TS]

00:40:43   we'll just hit the button and rescue [TS]

00:40:45   everybody and blow the universe back up [TS]

00:40:47   it'll be just like it was accepted to I [TS]

00:40:48   have to say this but I will say this at [TS]

00:40:50   as somebody who's seen that episode [TS]

00:40:51   three times now it does hold together [TS]

00:40:55   internally it it from an external [TS]

00:40:57   perspective yes of course it's kind of [TS]

00:40:58   ridiculous but internally it does hold [TS]

00:41:00   together it is all it is all explained [TS]

00:41:02   the the Pandorica is put to the Big Bang [TS]

00:41:04   which allows the last remnant of the old [TS]

00:41:06   universe to to cast its light on the [TS]

00:41:10   universe and so it's comes back I'm not [TS]

00:41:12   quite sure why Rory has the memories of [TS]

00:41:14   the Auton soldier guy other than that [TS]

00:41:18   it's a nice story and who cares it's [TS]

00:41:20   sweet it's nice and anna and i like how [TS]

00:41:22   it ended and and everything can be [TS]

00:41:24   explained with fezzes are cool i could [TS]

00:41:27   buy a new fez that me the wine of the [TS]

00:41:29   whole season but yeah this is the thing [TS]

00:41:31   this is the thing other one element is [TS]

00:41:33   why the river song remember right that's [TS]

00:41:35   always the that's the that's the [TS]

00:41:36   critical point why did you remember why [TS]

00:41:38   don't you have a blank book invite you i [TS]

00:41:40   think river song is probably moffatts [TS]

00:41:42   greatest creation mean if you take any [TS]

00:41:45   sort of serialize show that's been on [TS]

00:41:47   for 40 years then you can't really kill [TS]

00:41:49   the doctor you can't change the doctor [TS]

00:41:50   that much you know to be able to enhance [TS]

00:41:54   his story by introducing this character [TS]

00:41:56   from the future [TS]

00:41:57   that that's just brilliant Rockets his [TS]

00:41:59   biggest gamble too because he is it has [TS]

00:42:01   now been set up across two seasons going [TS]

00:42:04   to be in a third at least and you know [TS]

00:42:07   it does threaten to change his story and [TS]

00:42:10   how we perceive him and now that in the [TS]

00:42:12   last episode he drops the bomb where she [TS]

00:42:14   says you know the next time you see me [TS]

00:42:16   this is all going to make sense learn [TS]

00:42:18   about me and everything changes which is [TS]

00:42:20   such a thing to I mean sure Russell [TS]

00:42:22   Davis do that all the time and nothing [TS]

00:42:23   changed but i have to say that it's such [TS]

00:42:26   again you're raising the stakes and how [TS]

00:42:28   is he gonna pay that off it clearly this [TS]

00:42:29   is jose you're assuming is gonna pay it [TS]

00:42:31   off [TS]

00:42:32   well he says he's giving all that [TS]

00:42:33   assumption that i wasn't burned so many [TS]

00:42:35   times it often is satisfying was just [TS]

00:42:39   gonna drag it to John John John you need [TS]

00:42:41   a hug [TS]

00:42:42   not that I'd find disappointed i think [TS]

00:42:43   that's that's the tool to use to make to [TS]

00:42:45   add interest to to a character who is [TS]

00:42:47   too powerful put someone in the show who [TS]

00:42:49   knows something he doesn't know and keep [TS]

00:42:50   bringing them back to tweak and with it [TS]

00:42:52   you can do that for a long time and I [TS]

00:42:53   think that's in itself is satisfying you [TS]

00:42:55   don't need to pay off ends that the pain [TS]

00:42:57   offices are now we know everything [TS]

00:42:58   represents the moon locale inviting [TS]

00:43:00   problem that the reason i think that it [TS]

00:43:01   actually I do think the river song [TS]

00:43:03   payoff will probably be disappointed a [TS]

00:43:06   lot of people because i think where he's [TS]

00:43:08   going with this is we're probably going [TS]

00:43:10   to see over the course of next season in [TS]

00:43:11   a couple episodes maybe you know maybe [TS]

00:43:13   two maybe for she wasn't for this year [TS]

00:43:15   what we're going to see is them having [TS]

00:43:18   that core of the relationship because I [TS]

00:43:20   think a lot of people have this [TS]

00:43:21   perception that like oh they're going to [TS]

00:43:22   get married and they're going to have a [TS]

00:43:23   marriage and then it's gonna end and I [TS]

00:43:26   don't think that's what's gonna happen i [TS]

00:43:27   think we're essentially seeing it sort [TS]

00:43:29   of it's a big ball of time you want me [TS]

00:43:32   stuff now it's a big ball and we're [TS]

00:43:33   seeing it from the outside passing to [TS]

00:43:35   the middle and in the middle is meant [TS]

00:43:37   you know we've seen the dr knowing her [TS]

00:43:39   and she being on the other side of the [TS]

00:43:41   relationship we're gonna get to that mid [TS]

00:43:43   point next year where this relationship [TS]

00:43:44   is essentially consummated and then [TS]

00:43:47   we're going to continue to see her but [TS]

00:43:49   it's gonna be on the other side of four [TS]

00:43:50   she's met the doctor [TS]

00:43:52   yeah before that they've gotten to that [TS]

00:43:53   point and and then her echoes are going [TS]

00:43:56   to kind of show up occasionally but the [TS]

00:43:58   core of the story will already have been [TS]

00:43:59   told that travelers wife [TS]

00:44:01   yeah exactly and no except we're gonna [TS]

00:44:03   be pissed off by that I i think some [TS]

00:44:05   people going to what that's it that's [TS]

00:44:06   the whole thing I thought they were [TS]

00:44:07   going to be whole season though the [TS]

00:44:09   switch [TS]

00:44:10   never has to be a payoff the remember he [TS]

00:44:11   has to go to planet midnight before she [TS]

00:44:13   dies and has to be far along in the [TS]

00:44:15   relationship early for him where he [TS]

00:44:17   almost doesn't know why he's doing it [TS]

00:44:19   has to happen sooner [TS]

00:44:21   I mean it's something we've already on [TS]

00:44:22   the end right right so happy we haven't [TS]

00:44:25   seen the penultimate scene where he goes [TS]

00:44:27   to her and realizes it's the last time [TS]

00:44:29   you'll see her and I suspect we might [TS]

00:44:31   even see that next season actually have [TS]

00:44:33   a chance to see him down or we'll never [TS]

00:44:34   see it or they'll see me know about it [TS]

00:44:36   is almost like you don't ever and yes [TS]

00:44:38   she's just a lot or she kills women up [TS]

00:44:40   man you killed that man never know just [TS]

00:44:42   I think that's where I think that's [TS]

00:44:44   where it'll be a cheap honestly but but [TS]

00:44:46   I I don't know I I don't know the other [TS]

00:44:48   thing that I think it's important that [TS]

00:44:50   the way Steven Moffat talks the show is [TS]

00:44:53   at there isn't anything that isn't [TS]

00:44:57   cannon about Doctor Who including the [TS]

00:44:59   stuff that contradicts Doctor Who [TS]

00:45:01   because they're all just gets a race [TS]

00:45:03   because it's he's a time traveler at any [TS]

00:45:04   moment he could totally erase and undo [TS]

00:45:06   and change low that it's all my question [TS]

00:45:09   for all of you assembled here is I've [TS]

00:45:12   got a couple first off is where did they [TS]

00:45:15   go from here [TS]

00:45:16   what what do you think looking forward [TS]

00:45:18   to the second season of Steven Moffat [TS]

00:45:20   surround the doctor who we've got Amy [TS]

00:45:23   and Rory in the TARDIS we've got the [TS]

00:45:25   river song plot that's floating out [TS]

00:45:27   there i'm just wondering what your what [TS]

00:45:28   your kind of thoughts our interests are [TS]

00:45:30   about about what you would like to see [TS]

00:45:32   this show do next [TS]

00:45:34   crossover with Sherlock owns yeah that [TS]

00:45:39   means slash fiction you're talking about [TS]

00:45:40   well alright let's not cross that line [TS]

00:45:42   they might as well put it on the [TS]

00:45:43   holodeck if they're gonna hate if they [TS]

00:45:45   can happen if it were coupling into I [TS]

00:45:46   would be there i thought one was working [TS]

00:45:49   on that [TS]

00:45:50   not if it's all over em we're gonna find [TS]

00:45:53   out that Amy is in Patrick's love cover [TS]

00:45:54   fee if Jeff Murdock showed up in the [TS]

00:45:56   TARDIS that would be the best thing ever [TS]

00:45:59   some time machine it's a it's a big we [TS]

00:46:02   believe will be time to say it time [TS]

00:46:05   machine should i'm in the new season I [TS]

00:46:08   want to see less pulling punches because [TS]

00:46:10   they creep right up to him with matt [TS]

00:46:12   smith right they had the whole idea of a [TS]

00:46:14   mystery gonna race and that's kind of a [TS]

00:46:15   sad thing to imagine and she can't [TS]

00:46:17   remember Rory but they couldn't land the [TS]

00:46:19   punches so she can't remember or how sad [TS]

00:46:21   sad for us is the view [TS]

00:46:22   right but you know they want to come [TS]

00:46:23   back over re now you remember me your [TS]

00:46:25   Robo Rory or the reset the universe and [TS]

00:46:28   everything you know like don't pull that [TS]

00:46:29   punch you know that's it you have to go [TS]

00:46:31   with that because instead of just [TS]

00:46:32   waiting until the companion leaves or [TS]

00:46:34   dies or something go with you know [TS]

00:46:35   horrible things happen two companions [TS]

00:46:37   and the doctor knows that they happen [TS]

00:46:38   but they don't know because they're st [TS]

00:46:40   was erased and there's no fix for and [TS]

00:46:42   just got to go on me but it also [TS]

00:46:43   provided it provided for like the one of [TS]

00:46:45   the greatest moments I thought in the in [TS]

00:46:47   the first rebooted season the eccleston [TS]

00:46:49   season the in the doctor dances you know [TS]

00:46:52   up until that point you have several [TS]

00:46:54   episodes in a row where stuff goes badly [TS]

00:46:56   and people don't necessarily make it and [TS]

00:46:59   then you have that moment where [TS]

00:47:00   everybody lives and lives just yet like [TS]

00:47:03   and i think that you know there's [TS]

00:47:05   something very compelling about that you [TS]

00:47:07   know in the sense that it's not it if [TS]

00:47:09   when it if you have old if you don't [TS]

00:47:11   pull those punches as Jon says then when [TS]

00:47:14   on the rare occasions things do work out [TS]

00:47:17   you feel like you've earned something [TS]

00:47:18   like you feel like you've gotten [TS]

00:47:20   something out of it it's a different [TS]

00:47:21   response because you're-you're so and [TS]

00:47:23   you feel like it's a triumph for the [TS]

00:47:25   double absolutely has been struggling [TS]

00:47:26   with his failures and he overcomes them [TS]

00:47:28   if you don't anybody if he wins every [TS]

00:47:29   time or even if you know like I don't [TS]

00:47:31   want to be solved in three episodes i [TS]

00:47:32   would be happy with you know him totally [TS]

00:47:35   destroying one companion and making her [TS]

00:47:37   the tragic companion who everything goes [TS]

00:47:39   wrong with the engine and she forgets [TS]

00:47:40   their history and all but she's fine you [TS]

00:47:42   know she's completely happy but only the [TS]

00:47:43   doctor knows how horrible it was an [TS]

00:47:45   honor yeah yeah he can I ask a question [TS]

00:47:47   about outer space [TS]

00:47:49   fellas nobody Noel doesn't exist am I [TS]

00:47:52   right think about the first 13 episodes [TS]

00:47:54   of azmuth they were on another planet [TS]

00:47:56   only in the Angels two-parter am i right [TS]

00:47:59   about that and the Beast below is on a [TS]

00:48:00   spaceship spaceship and everything else [TS]

00:48:02   was on earth wasn't it and the angels [TS]

00:48:03   one is like they're in you know or on [TS]

00:48:05   the terraria right there a part of a [TS]

00:48:08   community giving into the earth centric [TS]

00:48:10   nature of the show [TS]

00:48:11   no more taking campaigns to see the [TS]

00:48:12   universe that's cost too much much too [TS]

00:48:14   much money for sets the the budget was [TS]

00:48:16   cut a lot from the russell t davies [TS]

00:48:18   Sarah yeah i think that i think that's [TS]

00:48:20   part of it and also a show that has to [TS]

00:48:22   be different every single week it's [TS]

00:48:23   awfully hard to build a new alien planet [TS]

00:48:25   every week without any Star Trek did it [TS]

00:48:27   and they all were that red Cyclorama [TS]

00:48:29   endure terrible this so here's my here's [TS]

00:48:33   my question I want to go around this [TS]

00:48:35   virtual room and [TS]

00:48:36   ask each of you this to keep a high high [TS]

00:48:39   point low point from this last year of [TS]

00:48:41   Doctor Who you could be favorite episode [TS]

00:48:43   or not or it could be a moment whatever [TS]

00:48:44   but i'm i'm kind of curious to see how [TS]

00:48:46   how those match up high point in the low [TS]

00:48:49   point the high point for me was the [TS]

00:48:52   dream Lord episode which day which had [TS]

00:48:56   an ending that was ambiguous in a bit [TS]

00:48:57   dark right the ground was all his fault [TS]

00:48:59   right it had it had some of that it had [TS]

00:49:01   that you know it wasn't a clear win it [TS]

00:49:03   also seemed it like it really had a [TS]

00:49:05   clear voice for all of the characters [TS]

00:49:07   and had some sort of humor and your [TS]

00:49:10   darkness and kind of an interesting [TS]

00:49:12   sci-fi thing but and a good bad guy you [TS]

00:49:15   know overall that episode was really [TS]

00:49:16   solid i think the low point for me was [TS]

00:49:19   the Beast below [TS]

00:49:21   although i keep going back to it because [TS]

00:49:22   there's a lot of interesting things but [TS]

00:49:24   i think it was fascinating failure right [TS]

00:49:26   it was a great failure there's just so [TS]

00:49:28   much going and it seemed like characters [TS]

00:49:29   I really at the end the doctor looks at [TS]

00:49:33   the situation goes the only solution is [TS]

00:49:34   to kill lobotomize the whale [TS]

00:49:36   it's the only way out of this you know [TS]

00:49:39   that to me was sort of epic failure that [TS]

00:49:41   you like [TS]

00:49:42   LOL i was like Natalie's in your doctor [TS]

00:49:44   oh but not only to dr. a liar but he so [TS]

00:49:48   is stupid [TS]

00:49:49   yeah so that's me episode didn't work so [TS]

00:49:52   well even had a lot of good things i [TS]

00:49:55   thought i thought the low point for me [TS]

00:49:56   was the the second to partner the hungry [TS]

00:49:59   earth in cold blood there was something [TS]

00:50:01   that i liked a lot about the beginning [TS]

00:50:03   of the hungry earth when it's kind of [TS]

00:50:04   creepy and you don't know what's pulling [TS]

00:50:06   these people into the earth like there's [TS]

00:50:08   something I liked the unexplained nature [TS]

00:50:10   of that and then the second part of it [TS]

00:50:12   really turned it into this there's this [TS]

00:50:14   alien Society that's been living under [TS]

00:50:16   the earth for years and I know that's [TS]

00:50:17   it's a throwback to some of the earlier [TS]

00:50:18   doctor who references but it just got it [TS]

00:50:21   was totally boring and I mean I really [TS]

00:50:23   didn't do anything from and yes we do [TS]

00:50:25   end up with that sort of the note of [TS]

00:50:27   Rory getting erased which is kind of [TS]

00:50:29   gives you that bittersweet like dark [TS]

00:50:30   ending but the the episode itself i [TS]

00:50:33   thought was really really kind of a [TS]

00:50:34   waste of time and really so unfortunate [TS]

00:50:37   that Rory's death gets tacked onto the [TS]

00:50:39   end of those terrible episodes because [TS]

00:50:40   it was a sort of essential viewing and [TS]

00:50:42   yet my mother-in-law's a doctor who [TS]

00:50:45   watch her and she was like well I'm a [TS]

00:50:46   few episodes behind new the next [TS]

00:50:48   episodes coming up with [TS]

00:50:49   a two-parter and I was like you should [TS]

00:50:50   skip it oh wait you can't skip it [TS]

00:50:52   because yeah but I mean to compare with [TS]

00:50:54   that so that you know if that's where [TS]

00:50:56   the low point then for me I guess the [TS]

00:50:57   highpoint like I felt like the season [TS]

00:50:59   had very good book ends i really enjoyed [TS]

00:51:01   the first episode I thought it was [TS]

00:51:03   fantastic i liked you know you do the [TS]

00:51:05   introduction of matt smith at like the [TS]

00:51:07   eleventh hour you know as we as we have [TS]

00:51:09   that episode where the doctor is [TS]

00:51:10   established we is we have that they've [TS]

00:51:12   done a lot of callbacks this year 12 to [TS]

00:51:14   all of the previous doctors which I [TS]

00:51:16   thought was very interesting like they [TS]

00:51:18   had one up so the first episode where he [TS]

00:51:20   has the the alien scan him and it shows [TS]

00:51:22   all the other doctors there's an episode [TS]

00:51:24   where we like pulls a library card and [TS]

00:51:26   william hartnell one [TS]

00:51:27   yeah 3 card up and I thought that you [TS]

00:51:29   know that first episode was really i [TS]

00:51:31   really enjoyed it and then the last said [TS]

00:51:33   that the last two especially towards the [TS]

00:51:34   end of the love the the season I thought [TS]

00:51:38   were really good and sort of brought us [TS]

00:51:39   back up to that level and it seemed like [TS]

00:51:41   unfortunate that there were a lot of [TS]

00:51:42   things in between that we're kind of [TS]

00:51:44   crucial as you say plot-wise but but [TS]

00:51:46   still a lot of times felt like filler i [TS]

00:51:48   think i'm gonna pick two high points [TS]

00:51:50   when Rory memory dies / gets forgotten [TS]

00:51:54   that was a big high point from you [TS]

00:51:55   because AI didn't really like him much [TS]

00:51:57   and be i felt like find out finally [TS]

00:51:59   there they're gonna you know they're [TS]

00:52:00   going to do something with these [TS]

00:52:01   characters and of course the low point [TS]

00:52:02   was when they brought him back [TS]

00:52:03   yeah i'm not that another minor [TS]

00:52:05   character so much it's just that I i I'm [TS]

00:52:07   looking for that kind of character drama [TS]

00:52:08   to offset the the the supernatant [TS]

00:52:11   supernatural nature of the doctor and [TS]

00:52:13   then how he does everything right and i [TS]

00:52:15   think the other high point was how they [TS]

00:52:17   brought everything together at the end [TS]

00:52:18   of the series like it did really lost [TS]

00:52:20   there in the middle with a couple of [TS]

00:52:21   like weak monster the week episode with [TS]

00:52:23   a little bit of our points thrown in and [TS]

00:52:25   like man how they gonna wrap this up but [TS]

00:52:26   I thought they kind of you even with [TS]

00:52:28   bringing Rory back and robo Rory and all [TS]

00:52:30   the ridiculous noble I thought they [TS]

00:52:32   wrapped it up it they sort of pulled it [TS]

00:52:34   out in the end like this series could [TS]

00:52:35   have as Jason said gone off the rails [TS]

00:52:37   and look like it was and they really [TS]

00:52:38   kind of brought it back inside no no we [TS]

00:52:40   still know what we're doing we got a [TS]

00:52:41   little lost their but we're settling in [TS]

00:52:43   you know i'm and and that was satisfying [TS]

00:52:44   to maybe look forward to the next season [TS]

00:52:46   instead of wondering that if they can [TS]

00:52:49   really handle the doctors own you know [TS]

00:52:51   John I have to agree with you regarding [TS]

00:52:53   Rory I think my my low point for the [TS]

00:52:56   season is actually worries arc in [TS]

00:52:57   general I just he's he's just he got no [TS]

00:53:02   time [TS]

00:53:02   you really are we really don't didn't [TS]

00:53:04   understand him as a character why he was [TS]

00:53:07   there besides being Amy's fiancĂ© he [TS]

00:53:09   didn't we didn't really get a reason why [TS]

00:53:11   Amy likes him other than oh I guess she [TS]

00:53:13   does because she's grown up with them so [TS]

00:53:16   I mean I'm kind of hoping for next [TS]

00:53:17   season that we actually since he looks [TS]

00:53:19   to be towards getting a permanent member [TS]

00:53:22   on the on the TARDIS let's hope that he [TS]

00:53:24   actually get some character development [TS]

00:53:26   is a little like when you have a [TS]

00:53:27   beginning he actually got somewhere to [TS]

00:53:29   yeah right yeah right but Rory man [TS]

00:53:32   cranking yeah all the little the wilted [TS]

00:53:34   kind of boyfriend who can't compare with [TS]

00:53:36   the doctor but is concerned about it you [TS]

00:53:38   know really becomes kick-ass does the [TS]

00:53:40   time yeah Mickey gets the alternate [TS]

00:53:42   seven haha delivers we know everything [TS]

00:53:45   gets better with Zeppelin's that's how [TS]

00:53:47   you know you've fallen into a crack and [TS]

00:53:49   come out in an alternate universe just [TS]

00:53:50   watch for the air ships in the sky [TS]

00:53:52   that's how it works yeah i think my a [TS]

00:53:54   high point is actually really totally [TS]

00:53:56   obscure and that while vampires of [TS]

00:53:59   venice I didn't overall think the [TS]

00:54:01   episode was stellar [TS]

00:54:02   I think the point at which matt smith [TS]

00:54:06   has the conversation with anybody [TS]

00:54:08   remember what the the aliens are called [TS]

00:54:10   the vampire aliens imagine the vampires [TS]

00:54:14   you know when when when he has a [TS]

00:54:16   conversation with the with the mother [TS]

00:54:18   about you know saving her race versus [TS]

00:54:21   you know you're you know you're alone [TS]

00:54:23   like us and we're math Smith basically [TS]

00:54:24   takes a very hard stand against that and [TS]

00:54:27   it's just like no I'm sorry it has to be [TS]

00:54:29   you know for the good of for the good of [TS]

00:54:31   all I think he takes like a nice left [TS]

00:54:33   turn from tenant at that point where [TS]

00:54:35   it's just like okay here's the final [TS]

00:54:37   sever in terms of i'm not going to be [TS]

00:54:39   sad and weepy over the loss of my race [TS]

00:54:41   and I'm gonna go forward so I thought [TS]

00:54:43   that was like really nice high point you [TS]

00:54:45   know I i think i had a lot of low points [TS]

00:54:46   this season I i really like the good [TS]

00:54:48   episodes and I thought there were [TS]

00:54:49   several like the Dalek resurrection the [TS]

00:54:51   victory of the Daleks and it was mostly [TS]

00:54:53   stupid although i liked the acting quite [TS]

00:54:55   a lot of the big fan of the guy play [TS]

00:54:56   Winston Churchill I thought hungry earth [TS]

00:54:58   in cold blood were just sort of boring [TS]

00:55:00   like in very heavy-handed like people [TS]

00:55:03   are bad but they'll eventually get good [TS]

00:55:05   and like the narrative device of [TS]

00:55:06   speaking from hundreds in the future and [TS]

00:55:08   so forth [TS]

00:55:09   I really like the larger I thought it [TS]

00:55:10   was hilarious even though it was [TS]

00:55:12   essentially the Madame pompadour episode [TS]

00:55:15   Africa [TS]

00:55:15   it's called from two seasons before on [TS]

00:55:18   the fire place for the product which is [TS]

00:55:20   the best one the best episodes of Davies [TS]

00:55:22   I think fantastically interesting was [TS]

00:55:24   very much name right now we're oh yeah [TS]

00:55:26   of course it is right just like Douglas [TS]

00:55:28   Adams you know you know that Douglas [TS]

00:55:30   Adams hoping doctor who that either was [TS]

00:55:32   produced or not produced became either a [TS]

00:55:33   book or another thing same thing so but [TS]

00:55:36   no I think I think my favorite moment I [TS]

00:55:38   have to say weirdly enough was in the [TS]

00:55:40   Amy's choice that dream Lord episode [TS]

00:55:43   there was a moment when i actually was [TS]

00:55:45   teary when Rory died where I don't [TS]

00:55:46   really care about much of the character [TS]

00:55:48   but like he dies to save his unborn [TS]

00:55:49   child and his wife or his brother's wife [TS]

00:55:52   in the that alternate version reality [TS]

00:55:54   she then kills herself or thinks she may [TS]

00:55:56   because you want to live in a world is [TS]

00:55:58   very sure this could be the real world [TS]

00:56:00   kind of music [TS]

00:56:05   no i didn't i honestly didn't know right [TS]

00:56:09   now I just want him [TS]

00:56:14   this is sort of romantic crazy thing [TS]

00:56:16   with my old people as monsters it was [TS]

00:56:18   like very doctor who like old people [TS]

00:56:20   with cheap weird eyeballs sticking out [TS]

00:56:22   of their mouths and green gas that [TS]

00:56:23   dissolve people in strange old country [TS]

00:56:25   has and people climbing up Ivy walls and [TS]

00:56:28   stuff and you know some crummy [TS]

00:56:29   special-effects made modern a good CGI [TS]

00:56:31   but still sort of crummy ideas of [TS]

00:56:34   special-effects and but the actual human [TS]

00:56:36   race like he throws himself in front of [TS]

00:56:38   the window to save his wife and I was [TS]

00:56:40   like you know this thing is once you [TS]

00:56:41   become a parent I think everything [TS]

00:56:42   involving children makes you we be if [TS]

00:56:44   anything happens even fictional and so I [TS]

00:56:46   think that got me most of all but [TS]

00:56:48   they're all fine and well that's I think [TS]

00:56:50   that's a great point which it i thought [TS]

00:56:53   that the death scene of Rory in Amy's [TS]

00:56:57   choice was so affecting and her [TS]

00:57:00   sacrifice because she didn't want to [TS]

00:57:02   live in a world with Rory without Rory [TS]

00:57:04   was so affecting who wants to live in a [TS]

00:57:07   world with right now that keeps getting [TS]

00:57:10   your wish episodes later when he gets [TS]

00:57:12   like accidentally hit by a thing from [TS]

00:57:15   the sea devils and and falls the crack [TS]

00:57:18   it's just it and added that was I [TS]

00:57:21   thought the low point of the season [TS]

00:57:22   where I thought it had gone off the [TS]

00:57:24   rails with a two-parter where where will [TS]

00:57:26   you get this i thought his death was [TS]

00:57:27   much more effective in the other episode [TS]

00:57:29   then the one where it's the real death [TS]

00:57:31   that they went to the well too many [TS]

00:57:32   times now I said that was a bad star [TS]

00:57:34   trek the next generation episode right [TS]

00:57:36   now into the gym and our masks are deep [TS]

00:57:38   space nine gym in our reference but on [TS]

00:57:40   the honesty Devils which were apparently [TS]

00:57:43   they had designed something that was a [TS]

00:57:44   little more like the classic series men [TS]

00:57:46   decided no no we're gonna go with the [TS]

00:57:47   star trek masks and stuff for me I think [TS]

00:57:50   that was my level 3 with plan that [TS]

00:57:52   victory of the Daleks was was dumb and [TS]

00:57:55   it didn't need to be done and I felt [TS]

00:57:57   like they had a great story in there and [TS]

00:57:59   then they buried it because Steven [TS]

00:58:02   Moffat marketers play the game of saying [TS]

00:58:04   let's throw in some Spitfires in space [TS]

00:58:07   and some other things and just put them [TS]

00:58:09   all in the pot when I gotta forget the [TS]

00:58:12   price is quite as you want to get remind [TS]

00:58:13   me of that [TS]

00:58:14   and and we've added a Dalek to the [TS]

00:58:16   ground was moving you purposely no i did [TS]

00:58:20   not know John he's not exactly crawling [TS]

00:58:22   up [TS]

00:58:23   you do sound like a girl like me out on [TS]

00:58:25   a picture in the dog that's been really [TS]

00:58:27   offended me about is that the store [TS]

00:58:28   Daleks saying that they were helping [TS]

00:58:30   them win the war and carrying around he [TS]

00:58:32   was so hilarious and it was gone in like [TS]

00:58:34   five minutes and date that that's the [TS]

00:58:36   sort of thing that in the classic Doctor [TS]

00:58:38   Who that would have been an entire [TS]

00:58:39   episode and then the plan would have [TS]

00:58:40   been revealed at the end and instead it [TS]

00:58:42   wasn't even half the episode and I [TS]

00:58:44   thought that was really disappointing [TS]

00:58:45   and all we got out of that was this sort [TS]

00:58:47   of imaginations on the debt spaceship at [TS]

00:58:49   the end and and and it was like a great [TS]

00:58:52   idea that was just all wrong in the [TS]

00:58:54   balance of it and my high point I'm [TS]

00:58:56   gonna say is the larger because I know a [TS]

00:58:58   lot of fans hated just like they hated [TS]

00:58:59   of Monsters is negated you know they're [TS]

00:59:02   all these all these kind of oddball [TS]

00:59:03   episodes that people hate that are a [TS]

00:59:05   little bit off format and I thought the [TS]

00:59:06   larger was greater hilarious [TS]

00:59:09   I thought show it was to show getting [TS]

00:59:10   its footing back with those two episodes [TS]

00:59:12   with Amy's choice in the larger and if [TS]

00:59:15   you don't like the larger you're not [TS]

00:59:16   hooked up right here i want to mention i [TS]

00:59:17   want more favorite thing my favorite [TS]

00:59:19   thing now he's now now please i'll come [TS]

00:59:21   right I'm young and I love Amelia our [TS]

00:59:25   actors is fantastic [TS]

00:59:27   she's hilarious and perfect and there's [TS]

00:59:29   something she has like the McGill other [TS]

00:59:33   Karen Gillian I actually not a big fan [TS]

00:59:35   of I think she's fine but I don't think [TS]

00:59:37   she brings that kind of hardcore like [TS]

00:59:39   billie piper or anything actually almost [TS]

00:59:41   any of the Companions listed like Billie [TS]

00:59:43   Piper you know she seemed like this slip [TS]

00:59:45   of a girl and blah blah blah living the [TS]

00:59:47   council flats and was like man they [TS]

00:59:49   really wrote and she was able to act a [TS]

00:59:51   solid core she did the right thing she [TS]

00:59:53   knew what to do and I feel like it's an [TS]

00:59:55   act for mostly actress and the [TS]

00:59:57   characters written but young Amelia [TS]

00:59:57   characters written but young Amelia [TS]

01:00:00   sexually I think a lot of ways better [TS]

01:00:01   but you can't traipse around the [TS]

01:00:03   universe 18 year old patient i love the [TS]

01:00:05   fact that the entire series begins the [TS]

01:00:08   first proper after the opening credits [TS]

01:00:10   with a young girl in her window praying [TS]

01:00:13   to Santa class that's the the I want to [TS]

01:00:18   actually disagree with you Jason for a [TS]

01:00:19   second yes I show is over android at the [TS]

01:00:23   haha in Amy's choice when he died and it [TS]

01:00:25   was so poignant amy was so upset about [TS]

01:00:27   it that she kills herself and the doctor [TS]

01:00:29   because she doesn't want to live in that [TS]

01:00:30   world that made Rory's death and his [TS]

01:00:33   actually not never being born I think [TS]

01:00:36   more poignant because she had that [TS]

01:00:38   reaction that she's like I'm going to [TS]

01:00:39   kill myself than be without this person [TS]

01:00:41   and then for the rest of the series [TS]

01:00:43   she didn't know he was even there it [TS]

01:00:45   felt more waiting because of that [TS]

01:00:47   earlier argument that did that did build [TS]

01:00:49   on that but then when they brought him [TS]

01:00:50   back it's like why did you bother why [TS]

01:00:52   did you bother making trying to make us [TS]

01:00:53   care about him taking him away not [TS]

01:00:55   letting her know he was gone but then [TS]

01:00:56   bring him back anyway you know Jason why [TS]

01:00:58   I agree with you on a purely kind of [TS]

01:00:59   like rational basis like yes I can see [TS]

01:01:01   why you would do in order to make that [TS]

01:01:03   point later and get emotionally you [TS]

01:01:05   didn't feel it didn't feel it felt like [TS]

01:01:07   we already did that and why are they [TS]

01:01:08   trying to do it are the jerking our [TS]

01:01:09   chain again and in fact is as John quite [TS]

01:01:11   rightly points out [TS]

01:01:12   yeah they were jerking our chain again [TS]

01:01:14   they killed this guy twice and brought [TS]

01:01:16   him back twice in the span of like five [TS]

01:01:18   episodes and it's a that's a mistake and [TS]

01:01:20   should not have happened for the new [TS]

01:01:23   captain jack i also like LM can't kill [TS]

01:01:26   him up one of the best lines where the [TS]

01:01:27   best bits of ok they really didn't have [TS]

01:01:29   to go through this they didn't have like [TS]

01:01:31   the montage of rice pudding 2,000 years [TS]

01:01:33   guarding the contour kit was like well [TS]

01:01:35   you're looking good was stated in [TS]

01:01:36   trouble obviously that's like the whole [TS]

01:01:37   thing like that was great [TS]

01:01:39   that's not the case and I'm packing too [TS]

01:01:40   many plot points into a lot of time or [TS]

01:01:42   they just together we gotta quickly you [TS]

01:01:44   know I do love that time travel bit [TS]

01:01:45   where he keeps amping back and forth [TS]

01:01:48   well that that I feel like we've [TS]

01:01:49   embarrassed ourselves and our families [TS]

01:01:51   in knowing so much about Doctor Who and [TS]

01:01:53   that's okay i've been trying to get this [TS]

01:01:54   off my chest for years well so we often [TS]

01:01:57   talked and talked about Steven Moffat [TS]

01:01:58   various things and we still didn't talk [TS]

01:02:00   about press-gang oh it's a shame and [TS]

01:02:03   coupling a BB beside us a brief sojourn [TS]

01:02:06   into talking about how Jeff is [TS]

01:02:08   representative of the doctor which he's [TS]

01:02:11   from Wales to so there you go [TS]

01:02:13   that doesn't mean anyway I feel like [TS]

01:02:15   we've reached the end for now because [TS]

01:02:16   people are probably pulling out their [TS]

01:02:18   headphones and saying how long is this [TS]

01:02:19   podcast anyway you said it wouldn't be [TS]

01:02:21   this number and edit edit the [TS]

01:02:25   neverending podcast so I want to go [TS]

01:02:27   around the horn again and thank [TS]

01:02:28   everybody for being here so Jason thank [TS]

01:02:30   you very much thanks for having me and [TS]

01:02:31   Morgan thanks a lot [TS]

01:02:32   thank you John siracusa thank you for [TS]

01:02:35   bringing your yourself and your Dalek [TS]

01:02:36   voice with you anytime [TS]

01:02:38   Glenn flight when you crank it up to 10 [TS]

01:02:40   today pleasure and serenity called well [TS]

01:02:44   thank you very much thank you and uh I [TS]

01:02:46   think that's everybody unless there's [TS]

01:02:48   somebody we forgot [TS]

01:02:49   look under the table else that's that's [TS]

01:02:52   about it [TS]

01:02:53   I'm Jason's no thank you for listening [TS]

01:02:55   to the incomparable podcast join us [TS]

01:02:58   again next time when the subject will be [TS]

01:02:59   spending wheelchair movies i believe [TS]

01:03:02   until then thanks for listening to next [TS]

01:03:05   time that Leslie and comfortable test [TS]

01:03:09   can you believe it is finally over I was [TS]

01:03:13   the time was seen to get an hour of my [TS]

01:03:15   life back [TS]

01:03:16   visit us at the time trouble tom [TS]

01:03:20   set just had the incomparable [TS]

01:03:23   [Music] [TS]