The Incomparable

00:00:00 ◼   ► podcast episode 11 / 2010 [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► this is the uncomfortable podcast I call [TS]

00:00:16 ◼   ► this meeting of the book club to order [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► it is it made to order it when i get to [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► choose I didn't choose actually i think [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► what books we finally decided to talk [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► about this and didn't say I hate you all [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► that every podcast was supposed to let [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► me introduce all the people i hate today [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► first and foremost the voice you just [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► heard Glenn fleischmann hi Glenn [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► hello there I also joining us today Dan [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► Morgan who's on every podcast idea i'm [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► on every podcast in the world that's [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► right i don't know why but he is usually [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► uninvited I really really bored clearly [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► also joining us today Scott McNulty who [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► will be with us for a while and then [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► we'll duck out to do like exercise and [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► stuff [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► yes I i'm a fat man who wants to be less [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► fat [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► well that's your holding down the [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► Zeppelin right now exactly you can be [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► lighter than air and also joining us [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► today for his first time on the podcast [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► be gentle or or don't be gentle [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► Greg moss by Regis it's really nice to [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► be here [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► that's right Kathie Lee will be joining [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► us worked me like a ham [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► haha that's not not a euphemism [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► everybody workin him like a ham [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► so we have three books to talk about [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► today and first up is spin winner of the [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► hugo award by robert charles wilson [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► published in 2005 on the hugo award in [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► 2006 it is apparently the first book [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► according to wikipedia in the spin [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► trilogy I've only read the first book so [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► I cannot speak to the other magical [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► selections in this in this a in [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► astrology I believe several of you just [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► finish this book I've read this ages ago [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► I know you're talking about like five [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► minutes ago right looks like at least I [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► mean defensive we talked about in spin [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► time or a regular time is right for you [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► inside the envelope or outside the [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► envelope and Scott you just finished it [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► recently to write i finished last week [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► wow I finished about two weeks ago so [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► apparently had a curve my goodness this [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► is like a real book club [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► I i read it like two years ago but [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► that's okay that was you know I feel I [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► feel like I'm with it now we should [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► start by asking [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► didn't you read the next to is an [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► indication of the books quality i bought [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► a kindle and it's not available on the [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► kindle and I decided I wasn't going to [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► find paper and I haven't you know the [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► third one is not yet i bought it right [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► there that would also be that would be a [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► small bottles of time and space which [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► are contravene in many parts of spin so [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► anyway to spin robert charles wilson the [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► premise is that what would happen if the [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► earth kind of got enveloped by this [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► shell that turns out to be slowing its [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► passage through time so time and the [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► rest of the universe is patched passing [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► much faster than it is on earth and [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► there are some social ramifications and [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► there's some character ramifications and [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► then there's some interesting things [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► that happen when you when they start to [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► figure out that they can actually send [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► stuff outside of the bubble into the [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► rest of the universe so i don't know i [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► don't know quite where to start uh we'll [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► circle back around to this at the end [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► but you know did you guys did you guys [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► like it and you know what [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► what did you like about it and what did [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► you not about let's go with dan who read [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► it the most recently by several minutes [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► yeah i'm struggling to digest this [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► entire book that i just finished [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► um I kind of give it a solid i liked it [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► you know wasn't it wasn't like what I [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► didn't love it I didn't think it was [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► like the best book I've read but it was [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► entertaining it was interesting [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► there's certainly a lot of great ideas [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► in here and he really does pack them in [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► um I i guess when I felt like what kind [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► of the weaknesses are some of the [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► characters are interesting but they're [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► very hard to identify with at some [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► points more deliberately than others i [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► think you know especially when you talk [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► about this these you could argue the [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► central character if not the protagonist [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► is is this guy Jason and he is terrible [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► and another one yeah yeah what a [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► terrible i can't you just can't believe [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► anybody with the name Jason no way [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► untrustworthy but he's kind of intended [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► to be you know he sort of set up as a [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► he's a genius you know he knows he's [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► very intelligent he's been groomed from [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► a young age to really change the world [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► somehow how many happens to find this [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► sort of you know he comes of age in this [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► is perfect timing when he's actually [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► able to put himself in a position where [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► you can actually change the world [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► arguably but he's also kind of this in [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► screwed in [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► screw double character who is very set [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► apart from a lot of the other characters [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► including the narrator who is his best [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► friend and who is sort of the tempering [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► influence and sometimes but I'm also [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► seems to be on you know almost a more [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► realistic plane but I guess I found you [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► know some of the characters harder to [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► identify with others the wilson a lot of [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► his female characters especially are [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► very hate to say not known always [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► complimentary and not always as well [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► drawn as i think i would like we get [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► very much the idea of Jason's sister [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► Diane like speed through the prison of [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► prism of the protagonist who is in love [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► with her [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► so we get her drawn up a lot and I don't [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► think that's necessarily always borne [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► out by her actual portrayal is she not [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► Jenny from Forrest Gump I mean kinda [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► weird AC like goats on she's old [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► childhood friend and she's not here for [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► a lot of streets caught up in some crazy [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► fundamentalist religion stuff and it's [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► kind of a hippie well and MGM you know [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► that's cute which I felt I I like given [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► the fact that she was put on such a high [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► pedestal i kind of expected more from [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► her like what is he really seen her like [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► you know they're there were definitely [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► some sparks of earlier on I guess in the [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► relationship in terms of like you know [TS]

00:05:53 ◼   ► she set up to be kind of a parallel to [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► her brother but also always like a step [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► below him right and so i guess ii you [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► know it's hard for me to to sort of see [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► her the way that I think the protagonist [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► does I've seen this problem in a couple [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► of science fiction novels where there's [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► a group of characters who started as [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► children and their super kids [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► I mean you know they're going to span [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► the entire course of the novel and [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► they're going to change the world and so [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► they don't they seem remote from the [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► moment they're introduced yeah like hard [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► identified because I mean I mean I don't [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► you guys I mean I wasn't super good [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► briefly but yes I guess it's a little [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► easier to and you're still wear the Cape [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► there is that what they said it does [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► have a little bit of the width of Endor [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► to him right [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► yes exactly that's a great compares true [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► both characters jerks haha look for the [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► radar good arguably right like third [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► hurt so the rest of humanity doesn't [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► have to live like jerks and enter [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► doesn't like died in the corner with [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► crystals growing out of his eyes now [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► right but where's the spoiler warning [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► always people who [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► hey sorry we've already fired the [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► spoiler horn always have to remember to [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► put in virtual i only read the first of [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► the under books to read it didn't stop [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► there [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► this is part of our ongoing the ongoing [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► incomparable theme of only read the [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► first book in any cereal 24 hours [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► yeah is there any yet tell me about a [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► second dune book how'd that work out [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► no yeah so Scott know what did you think [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► I enjoyed the book a lot i did cut i [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► agree with Dan most of the characters [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► are not likeable and I kind of found [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► them it was the same Tyler time like the [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► the protagonist of the narrator is [TS]

00:07:32 ◼   ► either well he's the we see the story [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► from his point of view and he kind of [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► ideal hehe is like a farming puppy to [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► this family of people who do not treat [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► him all that well but he just keeps [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► going back to them right uh which I kind [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► of annoyed me throughout the book [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► because you know he's he's kind of the [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► most relatable of the characters that [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► are all unrelatable so you kind of feel [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► for him but then you think why do you [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► keep going back to these situations with [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► these people don't seem to care about [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► you and he's kinda cold to write like [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► they make a point of that a few [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► different places in the book of him [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► being a little bit removed from the [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► world right when he starts going out [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► with that woman who is and his coldness [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► it is justified because it turns out [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► that woman is a secret double agent [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► yeah another one of the female [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► characters whose not drawn exceedingly [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► complement really it doesn't it doesn't [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► come off well we all know women are just [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► about sex religion and betrayal [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► oh don't forget out we really don't know [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► haha drunk is drunk stupid and what else [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► is you've got to have that jaded I mean [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► I like this book but he did the mom of [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► the of the up Jason and Diane is a she's [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► like you're jaded Washington alcoholic [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► housewife right with a secret deep [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► secret that can only be revealed 5% [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► before the end of the book [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► yes exactly yeah if she gets a [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► Redemption a little bit of the air but [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► especially a central casting sort of the [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► others [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► is one positive female characters [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► malaysia right here malaysia and [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► indianola yes although you know that the [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► Malaysian doctor and she is awesome [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► she's well-drawn she's fasting this is [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► my problem with the book is that I'm [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► much more interested in the secondary [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► characters then the main characters [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► there's an incredibly strong plot and [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► some really neat science like some [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► really neat ways of like where you're [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► starting to sound exactly the envelopes [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► about for the first time for the book [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► then once all that's known i'm like well [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► I really kind of like the Martian or I [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► like you know that the double-crossing [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► betray Roman like she's sort of [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► interesting or the fundamentalist guy [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► who died in Mary's like he's passing and [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► bizarre like all those people are drawn [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► and sketches much more richly if not [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► realistically than the primary [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► characters yeah i mean speaking I mean [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► speaking from a writer Lee perspective [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► and that's easier and a lot of ways [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► right because when you have a character [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► who is such a major character they have [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► to be so fleshed out you know just in [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► terms of their exposure in the book and [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► have to be so developed and so [TS]

00:10:00 ◼   ► three-dimensional to get you to really [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► be inside their head that it's very [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► tough because you can really see it in a [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► very close detail as opposed to the [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► sketches that you get for those [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► secondary characters which are often [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► enough to get you let your imagination [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► soar to fill in the rest of the details [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► you don't necessarily have to go into [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► their home life and like you know they [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► had a terrible childhood and all this [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► stuff you can sort of get an idea from [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► them from just a brief you throwaway [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► lines and I i agree i think Wilson does [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► vary a great job with a lot of those [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► secondary characters so you know this [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► book does have this interesting [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► back-and-forth device where you are [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► the infield essentially billions of [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► years in the future with the same [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► characters that we we see in the past [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► when their kids and it goes back and [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► forth and to glens point it is [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► interesting that the the stuff that set [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► in the future feels very different some [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► of the characters they're very [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► interesting they're really on the run in [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► malaysia trying to get a boat to escape [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► and them and tyler is really sick and we [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► don't really know why he's sick at first [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► and we discovered that very late and [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► I'll i really enjoy that time frame a [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► lot although it does have the flaw of [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► being a part of the story that doesn't [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► really have an ending right well I mean [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► the structure of the book if you ask me [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► is [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► kind of i'm guessing it's deliver in [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► this sense that it's kind of an arch [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► right because both of the things start [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► you start the beginning and then at the [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► end the two narratives meet yes and so [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► and of course you know there is an arch [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► in the book a giant arch a giant art [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► which is symbolic so I think I mean I i [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► would not be surprised to find that the [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► structure of the narrative was created [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► to sort of have a have a resonance with [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► that I'm like that whole development who [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► was disappointed by the ending [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► everyone everyone everyone follows its [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► already just what disappointed you about [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► it i want to do is I was fascinated by [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► the idea of the bubble and the physics [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► that went into it and how society [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► reacted to it and like there were so [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► many possibilities once they establish [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► that it happened and then as they [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► started resolving those possibilities at [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► as the number of things that it could be [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► collapsed down into specifics they it [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► was all really well done but you were [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► just kind of left with oh okay I'll buy [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► that and the Martian was interesting and [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► okay it was fun to go and terraform mars [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► in the next couple of weeks and but it [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► just it didn't seem to add up to the [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► potential that the bubble had at the [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► beginning of the book in which turns out [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► to be [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► it's a universal literally universal [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► fidonet wow you want something that is [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► over haha haha no it's not it's my new [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► machines on going over all the gallery [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► forward packet network and they've [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► decided I mean the premise again spoiler [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► horn long ago was fired [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► the premise is that that uh he's looking [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► for work now the that the that this [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► yes thank you and I have I'm sorry [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► the premise here is that they're they're [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► wrapping intelligent races in this spin [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► shell so that they can prepare the [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► galaxy of the universe for them in some [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► way but it's going to take them awhile [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► so basically the the robot say okay [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► we're going to slow you down for a few [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► billion years while we do other stuff [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► and then we'll take you back out and [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► then party [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► it's kind of a pre singularity novel [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► right like you know your did the book [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► leaves off at the point at which are [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► sort of human humanities enter [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► what ya popularly called the singularity [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► and that's why the ending didn't bother [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► me because I felt like you know it is an [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► ending to say and he you know Tyler sort [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► of makes his transition into this fourth [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► stage of life and you know he and Diane [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► go through the whatever-it-is the arch [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► to this new world and and humanity makes [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► the transition to yeah it's definitely [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► an ending but it's still kind of a [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► disappointing ending given the [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► possibilities that there were at the [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► beginning of the book a quarter of the [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► way through the way in whatever that's [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► always going to be the case though I [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► mean like you know when you have so many [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► ideas so many possibilities and as those [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► get diminished I think oftentimes [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► there's there is there is a big [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► potential for disappointment there if I [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► I just thought it felt it's not like [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► we're going to hang out yeah like it can [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► be you didn't bring a book it one day I [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► just it's like to get towards the data [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► moment it's like everything was [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► interesting that the book starts to [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► drain out the Martians killed Mars [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► becomes more ordinary you get this sort [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► of potboiler thing like why they're on [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► the run seems really interesting until [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► you discover that for arbitrary reasons [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► the government is just killing all the [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► people who have gone through this [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► transformation you're like well what [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► doesn't make sense when they kill him [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► round them up using for their own [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► purposes exist you know autopsy then [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► whatever but the like they're killing [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► them because they're something like what [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► i don't get it i mean maybe let's get a [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► little futurist at the end they sort of [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► like dumped a whole bunch of info on [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► your like this is happening in this [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► tempted to do that little thai where [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► they get the two narratives time [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► together [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► there's a lot of a lot of that it [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► reminded me a little bit of Darwin's [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► radio and the sequel to that by Greg [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► bear which it's the same sort of thing [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► which is throughout the book the [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► government is sort of this and maybe I [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► don't know maybe there's yeah some [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► politics involved here but the [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► government does lots of things and it's [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► sort of a shadowy conspiracy or there [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► they do it out of fear or their Craven [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► politicians and you have a lot of the [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► story that sort of being driven by kind [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► of stupid government or politics and you [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► know maybe that's realism but I i almost [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► want a little more escapism I guess from [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► a sci-fi novel and and 442 just come [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► down to the fact that while they're a [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► bunch of jerks in the government who are [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► going to want to suppress this or use it [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► for their own purposes but [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► I'm not even doing that they just want [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► to arbitrarily hunt the heroes for nope [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► yeah because that's because if it's [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► required for the end of the book [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► well Darwin radio is kinda or the sequel [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► to it is it's kinda like that to which [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► meant them all down at once it's not [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► good but I kind of like the other [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► paranoia aspect in the beginning when [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► everybody talks about being paranoid and [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► they're like well I mean we kind of got [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► a good reason to be paranoid right like [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► some unknown force has totally wrapped [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► our world and his bubble lookin is [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► totally doing something to us that we [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► don't really understand so you know [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► paranoia seems to make it look I don't [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► talk about borrowing because i know i [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► did like the book until the ending I [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► thought actually was very strong [TS]

00:16:17 ◼   ► interesting and really unique voice and [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► I was really compelled to get through it [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► but like thinking about it now since [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► I've got the perspective of two weeks to [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► write a lot about it I feel like every [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► almost everything in the book comes from [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► somewhere else like it really starts to [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► feel like a pastiche within the drawing [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► main characters like you know i was just [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► looking up i remember the Commonwealth [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► Saget and avoid trilogy Peter F Hamilton [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► series that are going on where it's you [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► know portals between worlds in a certain [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► kind of sophisticated Society out there [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► hyperion which were talking about with [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► portals between worlds that's kind of a [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► common but it's still this arch thing [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► once you walk back and forth between [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► different places the Ringworld anybody [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► think about Ringworld they talked about [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► the fourth age business [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► the Martians life-extending and whatever [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► these people become protectors you know [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► they have slightly different physical [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► attributes their attitudes are changing [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► their more protective when he stranger [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► in a strange land [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► yeah yeah this doesn't right Martian [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► comes through which you can understand [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► the echoes of stranger in a strange land [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► like that's you know very well and it [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► gets and get out to which is kind of a [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► nice nice moment where the Martian wants [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► to read all the Martian sci-fi yeah but [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► it's in there is i mean there's more to [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► but I I cus i wasn't it was all recycled [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► or purposely borrowed but at the end as [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► like that you know this is this is like [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► 10 or 15 different you know hunks of [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► different books are you know even the [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► the Kim Stanley Robinson Mars series [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► where it's like we're going to terraform [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► it's like let's take all of that and put [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► in 25 pages [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► we're gonna send these seed ships off [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► and then if everything goes well they'll [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► be settlers there who advanced [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► definitely another help i have to say [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► that there are two great ideas in this [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► book and one of them is what would [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► happen to society if if you know the [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► Stars went out and there [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► is perhaps a suggestion that that this [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► generation on the planet would be the [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► last because then the Sun will swell and [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► that will be the end you get an [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► eschatological been to ya and then the [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► the other nice word and the other big [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► idea here is this time bubble and [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► ramifications of sending people through [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► it and there's a really nice moment that [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► has stuck with me in the last couple [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► years since i read it which is that [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► there's a slight launch malfunction in [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► one of the ships that's going to Mars [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► and it launches like 15 seconds too late [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► which means that because of the speed of [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► the time bubble that one ship is going [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► to be like 10,000 years behind everyone [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► else [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► by the time it gets to Mars and then [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► theory the civilization there will have [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► completely forgotten about earth until [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► these guys drop out of the world even [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► though they left at the same time and [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► the whole kind of deep time what it [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► means to play off of tens of hundreds of [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► thousands or millions of years and how [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► quickly it happens to the people who are [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► in the bubble [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► I mean what a great idea so it's two [TS]

00:18:53 ◼   ► great ideas and ya novel can probably [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► suit subsist on one and he has to and [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► what like glitter and glam was saying [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► about like this being kind of a pastiche [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► I mean I think that's you know what you [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► say that and I think well that's a great [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► premise for a book right there like you [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► know from the perspective of the [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► Martians who have like going along with [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► their ordinary little life in a rocket [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► drops out of this guy hey remember us [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► and but I think at the same time as part [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► of the galaxy book for yeah I i argue [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► that they know every good for many good [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► science fiction novels and novels and [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► arts works in general all build on these [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► things you know borrowed ideas from from [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► what's gone before and I think you know [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► and clearly in this case a lot of it is [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► Maj you know by the by the you know the [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► vocal call outs two things like Ray [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► Bradbury and and Robert Heinlein and all [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► that stuff so you know that's okay it's [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► okay Scott do you think it's okay i do [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► think it's okay and when i was reading [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► the the book spin the scene where [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► they're sitting on the lawn and the [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► stars disappear reminded me very much of [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► aiesec asthma short story nightfall [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► anyone yeah really yeah [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► yes which is a fantastic story if you [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► haven't read it you should stop [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► listening to this and read it right now [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► yes should go back to your childhood and [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► read it and then come back to exactly so [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► the premises that this planet has sick [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► sons and it's never experienced full [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► darkness and through a confluence of [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► things it's going to go through full [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► darkness and what's gonna happen so you [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► don't know what happens at the ended the [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► darkness comes and he leaves it up to [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► you [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► although i think that they wrote a novel [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► version as well that's yes robert [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► silverberg maybe I don't but I very very [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► doll [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► well there goes the movie to the movie [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► was also dull respectfully so that was [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► another prestigious came through my mind [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► and I thought I agree with Jason I think [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► that the the two great ideas of the book [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► kind of make up for the lackluster [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► characters and the kind of disappointing [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► ending although i haven't read the [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► second book so I don't know how much [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► more disappointing it can be you [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► mentioned a few people mention the [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► Martian I think the Martians a a really [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► cool character this idea that we leave [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► we let me fire off these rockets and [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► then like a couple days later a guy [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► comes back is the result of this whole [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► civilization that's more advanced than [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► hairs that is the result of those [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► Rockets being fired off and he's human [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► but he's been on Mars for so long that [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► he's a he's essentially an alien he's [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► looking at us with a with some sort of [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► amusement and detachment which I thought [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► was a great bet you know the great [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► history of science fiction that he makes [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► sure and notes that he's infertile even [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► though no sex occurs between him and [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► other people huh [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► but it is noted because we need to have [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► you know that's be set up for future [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► books that the the two great ideas in [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► this book and I think you're right there [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► are two great is the problem with the [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► ending is that neither of them time to [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► the ending they're both concluded by the [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► end of the book you might as well have [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► just had this arch appear by magic for [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► all the impact that the two great ideas [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► are born out of here [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► I mean you could have just had it be [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► other than having a MacGuffin where they [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► have to get somewhere in in the indian [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► ocean you know there's no reason for it [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► at all it could be equal that's why it's [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► there has been goes right the spin goes [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► away and that's it and now you're right [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► now the universe is ready for you [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► well crap what happens next right but [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► that isn't the whole function of the [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► spin that they put your planet in the [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► spin and then they you get to a certain [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► point they build these arches for you so [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► that you can expand your civilization [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► because one yeah its resources won't [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► support you [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► I think that's the idea but the spoon is [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► magic and so the arch could be magic it [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► could have just appeared [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► there's no one would argue there's [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► there's no reason [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► and for the spin except as a great idea [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► and by the conclusion of the book it [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► goes away the book would have been much [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► shorter if our kitchen yeah yeah i think [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► that is a disappointing that [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► interleaving plot would have been boring [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► if they were just pretty much waiting [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► around to catch a bus against your new [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► planet this way [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► number 18 in local though it will take [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► several chapters they could call it roll [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► will be a picaresque story if i recall [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► right [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► Wow all the words today this is this is [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► a no your words i know you guys can read [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► stop with the crazy words Scott we don't [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► have you from it much longer do you have [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► anything more you'd like to share about [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► about spin [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► oh uh try to think I think we've covered [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► a life of knows everybody knows uplands [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► uplands there's another aerostats though [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► they're not Zeppelin's but the stuff [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► that's floating the apps and low [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► altitudes a whole region area of low of [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► high-altitude balloon technology yeah [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► because satellites can't exist so that [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► sort of Zeppelin ask yes and I do love [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► the fact that so at some point these [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► giant cube devices appear above the [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► poles of the planet hiring in space just [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► like bricks don't exactly know [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► everyone's freaked out by them and the [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► Chinese decide well why don't we shoot [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► some nuclear weapons and see what [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► happens which I thought sounds like [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► something the Chinese government would [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► do ya sites to that they actually there [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► has been a bit i think that has one of [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► the best images of the book in that the [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► when the new kits the the qubit it makes [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► the sphere transparent for a while and [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► they can see the stars wheeling past it [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► at the rate of hundreds of thousands of [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► years and that's when everybody freaks [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► out right [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► I say oh god what's happening and then [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► they know that time is moving [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► differently although they get the hint [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► from e-rock with us and there were the [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► Soviet yeah this with the Russian the [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► astronauts entrants who were up there [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► for several weeks and then they come [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► down and it was like no time had passed [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► and it was like you're crazy Russia's [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► that's right Luke well I guess two of [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► them died and one survives using the [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► hospital and it's kind of a throwaway [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► think I you know I this is not true but [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► but i'll just say that when I'm reading [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► it I I just written a novel for the [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► first time [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► and i read this book and I thought you [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► know anybody can write a hugo winner of [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► this is hugo winner and i don't mean [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► that in a mean way because the ideas are [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► great but the characters that's kind of [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► mean it and the character yeah okay it's [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► kind of mean the characters the [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► character interaction [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► I you know it didn't didn't seem special [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► it-it-it this is a book that really gets [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► carried i think by those big ideas and [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► and I can see why you'd be disappointed [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► at the end because it's true they think [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► ideas are sort of played out at the end [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► and then it sort of teasing you toward [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► whatever the next thing in the series is [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► going to be set in the universe but it's [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► not a continuation of a previous story [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► because that story is over [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► come follow the characters you don't [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► care about what and you know the Hugo's [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► I don't think they base many of the [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► Hugo's on actual writing frankly not [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► there are well-written Hugo or award [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► winners but one this and this isn't [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► particularly poorly written either i [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► mean you know it's got he can turn a [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► phrase [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► I mean sure it's a poorly written I just [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► saying that it did it didn't strike me a [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► lot of these a lot of especially the [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► hugo books but books in general reading [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► I don't think dang you know this person [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► is a is really talented and and you know [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► I don't know if I could ever hope to [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► write something like that where span was [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► like I know how this book it seemed to [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► me like I understood how it was put [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► together the structure seems very [TS]

00:25:51 ◼   ► straightforward the character [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► interaction seemed really [TS]

00:25:53 ◼   ► straightforward i could see i mean i [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► could sort of see how it was assembled [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► and and that was kind of interesting [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► that that do this is a UH award-winning [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► novel and yet it didn't it didn't seem [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► like magic right i mean the balls and [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► like maybe you're standing you're [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► standing will sort of next to a stage [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► for a magic show and you can sign it [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► kind of see what's going on behind the [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► scenes but it still makes you appreciate [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► the another craft that's willing [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► everybody else and it's the penn and [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► teller of Hugo winners it has a few [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► things in common with this terms of hard [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► science we should talk about these this [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► pair it actually violates the law of the [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► second book is always horrible the [TS]

00:26:28 ◼   ► forges got forge of God anvil of stars [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► by Greg bear so 20 was a 20-plus year [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► old set of books and the second book [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► involves I mean it's this thing where [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► it's your first parent / scenario in the [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► second book huge amounts of like physics [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► and science extremely well-written [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► compelling characters [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► and it has i think there's a similar i [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► was a bit of a similar feel like there's [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► all but hey even like a more more [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► happening service of the plot but anyway [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► I think it might be it could be fun to [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► talk about those especially relation to [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► the issue of like good writing strong [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► plot the first the two books a hugo [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► winner right name happened I don't know [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► so I i looked up what the other ebooks [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► that spin was up against in the hugo the [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► 2006 Hugo's just because I was curious [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► so its up against learning the world by [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► chemical McLeod's which I can never just [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► loud cloud whatever he's good writer i [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► haven't read learning the world up a [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► feast for crows by george RR martin ah [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► but accelerometer co-vice charles stross [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► oh and old man's war by well London is [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► always better i would prefer i like [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► salty old man's war right now is better [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► book event where is good book but i [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► think that i think that the Hugo's often [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► you come up with the most original idea [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► and you when Hugo and i have to say that [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► the the time shifting between the the [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► spin membrane and the rest of the [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► universe in the whole colonizing Mars [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► thing is a fantastic idea [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► I agree I agree any ideas personal line [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► right decor [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► that's what I wanted at two ideas that [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► the other books only had one that's [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► right account for the heroes [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► so next up on the agenda is yet another [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► hugo winner where what we're doing cutie [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► winners today [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► Hyperion by Dan Simmons which was [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► released in 1989 won the hugo in 1990 [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► and uh i really i really like this i [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► really like this book so is there [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► anybody who doesn't love Hyperion except [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► for the last spoiler horn [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► two words up I we were the last two [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► organizations did that they don't there [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► are more of them haha yeah i got my [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► opinion is like I just remember this [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► thing we're talking about this an email [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► it's that the stories the story about [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► the million monkeys where this rich man [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► develops a computer system this is from [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► back in the fifties that will create you [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► know every piece of literature and it [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► produces this you know randomly and it's [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► sort stuff out it produces the greatest [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► story ever written except it's missing [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► the last chapter and he tries to hire a [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► writer friend of his to to finish it and [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► I was like that is what I feel about [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► with Hyperion is like the one of the [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► finest most beautiful science-fiction [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► novels that ever read I mean doing is [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► terrific [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► hyperion i think is gorgeous sort of [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► like the sparrow [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► oh yes which is its image again don't [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► read number two in the sparrow I've read [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► that is horrible but the Hyperion is a [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► such a beautiful lyrical book and he [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► tells so many different stories each of [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► them as its own voice and tone your [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► thinking who is this guy where did he [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► come from how do you create all of these [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► universes this you know all the [TS]

00:29:53 ◼   ► different planets interactions this it's [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► as if he is living in a parallel [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► universe it so beautifully described and [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► then what came after is so hideous [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► there's no i don't i don't agree with [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► that now but let's let's start at the [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► beginning here Hyperion is structured in [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► a way where there's a framing story [TS]

00:30:11 ◼   ► which is these pilgrims going to the [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► time tombs on the planet of Hyperion and [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► then in between they are telling their [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► individual tails so i guess you could [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► liken it to something like lost its [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► really much more like like The [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► Canterbury Tales where you've got the [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► individual tales of the pilgrims on [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► their way that's sort of that the [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► concept really and it's a and a problem [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► i think from the perspective of the [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► ending is that this book is about the [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► stories told by the people on their [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► journey to the time tombs and then they [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► get there and that's the end right [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► because that's not what this book is [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► about it's about it is in a way about [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► the setup but it's also about the that [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► you know learning who these people are [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► on this journey and as that it is cut it [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► is brilliant and it is brilliantly [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► written it's not just a bunch of good [TS]

00:30:58 ◼   ► ideas in this book is over [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► going with good ideas but it's really s [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► Simmons is such a great writer and I'd [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► actually read some others of his stuff [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► before i read this but it's it's just so [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► wonderfully written in so many great [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► ideas but the ending has the exact [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► opposite problem of spin is rather than [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► being wound down and disinterested in [TS]

00:31:16 ◼   ► the character huh [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► you are incredibly wound up really [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► interested in the characters and then it [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► ends there's nowhere to go it's in rate [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► I wanted to throw the book across the [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► room I kept saying he can't resolve this [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► in the next three pages he can't resolve [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► that the next two pages he didn't [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► resolve it the following the Aryan is [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► how it was resolved i am actually angry [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► thinking about it it was a beautiful [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► book and I loved reading it and just [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► from the very beginning just the number [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► and amount of ideas the pre story the [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► first one that gets told is riveting and [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► all the way through and then you get to [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► the end and it you're you're suddenly [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► wily coyote hanging over the cliff with [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► a little yipeeeeee sign nowhere to go [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► but down [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► well or or you can read the sequel which [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► glenwood tell you this is a book you [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► have to stand alone object that should [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► be next should have you had a new law [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► that assessment Simmons does this too [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► because i read a book of his called [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► ileum and yeah i think that I got to the [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► end it turned out it was two books it [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► was one book split into two you get to [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► the end of ilium and it's like it's like [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► you're not even at the anti-venom all [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► you're like you're like and the battle [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► begun [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► we-well wait what the yeah and I i gotta [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► say i have not read anything by him [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► sense because i was so turned off by [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► that approach and yet i did read the [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► Hyperion Books you go into lord of the [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► rings and you know what you're getting [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► into [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► yeah I think I think I knew that [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► Hyperion was a to was a to at the time [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► to book series and I was gonna probably [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► have to read the second i went i wasn't [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► i wanted to the i went to the broke [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► cycle knowing what I was getting into [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► and that I say you know a years-long [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► investment in time I i read Lord of the [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► Rings and I don't know what happens [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► after photo gets the ring it all turns [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► out well though right yeah it's [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► everybody's happy like i was wearing [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► tonight [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► rivendell and then wait a minute photo [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► gets the ring woods boiler horn [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► yeah well I think I mean I PS contains [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► spoilers Lord of the Rings it [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► Arthur bruised his jaw so Simmons you [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► know it is this it's the far future and [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► they're they're always throw in ideas [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► like the all thing which is this like a [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► collaboration of mines and of artificial [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► intelligences and and they've got the [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► farcaster portals which let you step [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► through from one place to another which [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► leads to the natural naturally the [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► super-rich would have a have houses [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► where each room was on a different [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► planet that is far Kelly awesome that [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► there would be a river that runs across [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► multiple planets and through portals and [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► we'll take boats down the river how [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► crazy is that you have to say like one [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► of Simmons is great abilities like he [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► can be incredibly self-indulgent writer [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► and some of his writing I cannot stand [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► is soaked lying and do that but like the [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► best of it is he has you know I don't [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► actually know exactly as background but [TS]

00:33:59 ◼   ► he must have been a classicist or he's [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► read everything written before you know [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► the year 500 CEO because his command of [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► the past is so extraordinary and he can [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► transmute that into both the characters [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► within the novel being aware of the fact [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► that the stuff they're living through is [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► an allusion to the past they create the [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► river toughest because they call it at [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► this not because they forgot what it [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► means will because that's what they [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► remember but you still get that ringing [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► of like you know Plato in there as well [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► I felt like Hyperion was like a at the [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► final exam for a liberal arts education [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► it every once in while you say hey I [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► know what that means i get that reaction [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► when i was when i was in school i was [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► like my second year of college some pro [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► hipster thuy band came out with an album [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► called cloud cuckoo-land and I got the [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► reference to Aristophanes the birds and [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► I felt like my entire education had been [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► justified at that point because I got a [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► pop culture reference that eluded to [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► classical education from some band but [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► never sides in the where they know file [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► yeah where are they now file and that's [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► that's how I felt really high period may [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► have gotten one in ten references but I [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► felt incredibly smug everyday it's john [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► keats he becomes a major character in [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► the sequel by the way John Key is a [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► pretty major character in this one too [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► well I suppose he is he's like the [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► viewpoint characters sequel which is [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► strange but disciple and then in the [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► Shrike the Shrike is probably like the [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► tree of pain and the [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► it was around and the Shrike I mean [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► again with the eye again with the ideas [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► so not only is Hyperion really a set of [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► really strong novellas I mean they're [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► they're more than short stories so it's [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► like a series of novellas with an [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► incredibly strong backbone but you also [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► have this idea all the ideas and the [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► Shrike is I think of across all four [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► books even though i really hated them as [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► in crippling the series further and [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► further its form looks yeah they're not [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► to drink a lot of Hyperion Endymion and [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► rise i'm not going to read any of them [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► out of spite of you I well actually I [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► think you might like the fall of [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► hyperion I liked it and it's guys have [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► an ending it is not horrible the fall of [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► Hyperion is fine but it's Endymion and [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► rise and Damien feel like feeble-minded [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► sequels written by someone else [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► compared to the narrative richness of [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► the first book but you're right a second [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► those six not the six essentially [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► novellas the six tails of the six [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► characters in that in the book including [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► one that we actually i had already read [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► and what was an award-winning novell I [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► believe all I free remembering serie [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► great great stuff and then and then [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► you've got this journey to the time [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► tombs and the Shrike and a strike is [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► this mythical but not mythical character [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► who appears and and kills you except [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► when he doesn't and the time tombs are [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► one of the things that I really love [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► about this is the time tombs are a [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► unknown structure from the future that [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► is passing backward in time and then at [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► some point in the past they will open [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► contain and they contain things from the [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► future which is just as real head [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► spinner of an idea that you're watching [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► an object that's traveling backward in [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► time is a little like a particular [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► happen there's a book called the [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► chronoliths by that by robert charles [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► wilson to its been i think i think maybe [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► it is where it's the same thing where [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► you kind of turn your head you're like [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► oh this is from the future and now has [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► come back to the past [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► it is like a head scratcher yeah I think [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► everybody make it used is it a visit of [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► weapon your it's unclear who's in charge [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► of the universe you know this is [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► uncommon making my snuggle sandwich [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► references as my wife but you know in in [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► universe there actually is a guy in [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► charge of the galaxy and you meet him at [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► one point is very is very amusing and [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► not quite what you'd expect in here it's [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► like you know there are eventually I [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► remember how far is that series of [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► novels you understand that there are [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► vast powers at work that it's not a [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► local phenomenon a galaxy found [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► something that's almost fundamental to [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► nature itself there's a fight at the end [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► of the universe and that's actually if I [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► can talk about this little dudes like [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► double spoiler alerts they're the [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► problem with the Hyperion payer and the [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► Endymion pair and that you can read this [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► anywhere you read about Endymion is that [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► he writes the history of red Hyperion [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► you read fall of Hyperion and it's a [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► self-contained set of stories then you [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► jump 200-something years in the future [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► and it's like a whole other ball of wax [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► and that thing you read in Hyperion it [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► was so beautiful [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► well it wasn't really like that in that [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► physical description that's in the book [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► that physical description was wrong but [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► you can't do that [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► I understand he wanted to change the [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► narrative but you can't say something in [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► Hyperion that someone physically saw is [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► now described differently i'm like i can [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► pick up the other book and read the [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► description is the book telling me the [TS]

00:38:33 ◼   ► other copy of the physical book in [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► reality is wrong so that it's i would [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► just say well it's kinda like back to [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► the future to think I i don't disagree [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► with a go back over it and like wait a [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► second that's not exactly what I'm gonna [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► get the reward but I don't think see I'm [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► gonna argue though and this is a [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► recurring theme about sequels letting [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► you down that it doesn't change how [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► great this book is no and I think if you [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► go in knowing that it that it doesn't [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► really have an ending in that there's [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► another book required to resolve the [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► tales of the of the people it is a great [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► ride [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► Greg I mean when you agree absolutely [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► unquestionably it's a terrific book I [TS]

00:39:09 ◼   ► just wish there was another chapter we [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► we shouldn't ones that are not a whole [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► other book not three months just one [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► more chapter to finish the freakin story [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► that i started we should set up a list [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► of ultimately start developing a list of [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► the books like the great not just like [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► greatest you know sci-fi which is hard [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► to categorize but it's like you know the [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► sparrow Hyperion and dune everyone [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► should read them if they're interested [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► in sci-fi in the least are trying to get [TS]

00:39:32 ◼   ► into it like these three books are [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► introduction to different aspects of [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► sci-fi and they're fantastically [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► interesting to read that's actually how [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► I read Hyperion dune is some friends [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► were appalled that I haven't read them [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► and so they walked me through the hugo [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► list instead circle them said this one [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► this one this one this one [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► I've been reading science fiction my [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► whole life and I hadn't read some of the [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► you know towering classics of the genre [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► here's my review of dune it picks up [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► after the after the first 200 pages [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► starts good at a dozen going to 12 [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► minutes but in the desert yeah once [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► using the desert it's a whole different [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► book sure end of Barrow very Doria [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► wrestles the sparrow which we should [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► talk about it some point is it is one of [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► the best book I've ever read [TS]

00:40:15 ◼   ► however I will say that I think the last [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► hundred pages of it feels like she [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► realized she needed to finish and get it [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► to a publisher and a lot of her [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► description and detailed drops out and [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► it becomes about about plot resolution [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► yet but doesn't change the fact that I [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► love that book it is a hit endings are [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► talkin i mean III never look any further [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► than a real Stephenson is one of my [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► favorite writers yeah it's very early a [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► it seemed to have some sort of [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► congenital ending problem wishes kiddo [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► crash he said that he right on the hands [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► he said that yeah I don't write I'm a [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► competent enough writer to write the [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► ending i intend I wanted him that way [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► he's wrong about that one work then [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► exactly yeah i mean snow crash is a [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► fantastic weekend i think one of the one [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► of the best books in the last you know [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► 30 years but it's just yes that it has [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► great it's great all the way up until [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► about like the last chapter and you're [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► just like wait what [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► it's over soon okay chase giant screens [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► vital organs destruction of the [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► government helicopter chase mafia zodiac [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► is the only book he's ever written that [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► is actually a coherent story with a [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► beginning a middle and an end in sight [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► and I've ever do that if you take the [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► entire baroque cycle from beginning to [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► finish that it takes one giant story [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► which actually has a pretty decent [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► ending it talk about taking 200 pages [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► 400 500 pages to get going i loved it [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► you gotta warm up with three guys on [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► Twitter page novel to get to the end [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► I've tried twice to start it and I have [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► failed i got a little for the second [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► time it's worth it's like absolutely i [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► got to be so the undersea and I was like [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► all right I don't know what it is worth [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► that I love that I and i also love the [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► fact that I'm more sure to hook you to [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► hook you he said he says you know early [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► on I'm gonna have a big pirate battle [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► and then there's like not that it has [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► nothing to do with basically the rest of [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► the book but you know he throws it in [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► the beginning to get you hooked a little [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► minutes a oh I'll ride for 3,000 pages I [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► really dragged out and I was 405 ok now [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► we're going [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► yeah like two takes that long it takes [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► at least halfway through the first look [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► there I was just like okay now we're [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► getting to it and then the second book [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► is fantastic i thought my favorite of [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► the entire series but yeah I fingers [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► went numb and in the ice storm swept in [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► and i just had to climb back down I [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► couldn't do it [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► I i well knowing that there's 3,000 at [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► least you knew there were 3,000 pages [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► but we got to the end of this story as [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► opposed to something like Hyperion where [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► you know you don't know that going in a [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► hurry and it can be kind of upsetting [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► and it's nice if you're really desperate [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► for something to read and you're like oh [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► there's a drought of books coming out [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► that I want to do something you just you [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► just sink yourself in that that's how i [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► feel about that about the george RR [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► martin I've got that look [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► fourth book or whatever it is in his [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► series and I'm just that still salted [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► away for a lean time because i know that [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► it's gonna be forever before regrets the [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► next one oh yeah and the best part of [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► that is you'll have to read the first [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► three before you can even read that just [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► you remember what happened doing these [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► people again and and it's funny talking [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► about Stephenson we may not get to [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► Michael shape on today I don't know I [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► mean neal stephenson I I think zodiac is [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► a really good thing [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► Greg mentioned it that I i think it [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► holds together and I think it's a really [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► good piece of work and i really like the [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► diamond age actually i'm not sure i [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► think snow crash the first half of snow [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► crash is great but then I feel like it [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► kinda repeats itself until it's like a [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► record [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► really you know sort of skipping it [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► until it's somebody listen up the needle [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► at the end to you know the first half is [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► great and then it kind of falls apart I [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► wouldn't dug up the big you his first [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► book and they're amusing scenes but it's [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► it's not worth going to find acceptable [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► with a brain surgery [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► it's the one that is likely candidate no [TS]

00:43:37 ◼   ► no that that was the one written under a [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► pseudonym that came later and I get [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► what's called think the student named [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► off top even break hehe yeah the the big [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► you is written under his name but it was [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► something he wrote in college and it's a [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► satire / parody of of like a mill [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► college where the it's a like an office [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► block that the college takes place in [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► its just one giant building and there [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► were some nice scenes in there were some [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► really great scenes but on the whole it [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► was just a big mass zodiac is the one [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► where I i read zodiac after snow crash [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► and I said wow this is great and it was [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► you know setting the present day in [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► boston and there's a guy with a red [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► after nice the eco spiderman spiderman i [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► also learned I learned what to do if you [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► get pc people arity pcp poisoning no no [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► uh-uh shukaku charcoal if you swallow [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► Germany PCP is not the polygonal port [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► but know that we see what's there is a [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► pollution and the individual dust [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► yeah maybe right we're just gonna get [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► along in the book it's pcbs PCB and you [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► chew carpet charcoal which later turned [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► out he was with the accuracy and I [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► learned a valuable life skill from the [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► book if you have if you hadn't talked to [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► create ways you can eat some charcoal [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► thank you tell you can tell by the [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► backend charcoal charcoal is tasty [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► alright so we talk about the image [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► policemen's union woman new yeah I'm [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► refresh my memory on it which is all [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► about honestly say i'm reading whenever [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► you make a peanut you can use it was a [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► couple years ago when i read it but I i [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► loved it when i read it it was one of my [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► favorite books that you're actually [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► recommended to my dad i recommend a lot [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► of books to my dad but as he's Jewish i [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► thought he and in like sort of you re [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► stuff I thought he would get a kick out [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► of it [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► yeah so it's and it's it's it 11 Hugo it [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► is a an alt history story which is why I [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► think it qualifies set in late forties I [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► believe her early not notice it's is no [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► no it's later no it's uh it's modern age [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► is elimination day [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► yeah this is a vergence period is in the [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► early forties that's really growing [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► changes right they create a place for [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► all the Jews in the world to go because [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► Israel is doesn't work is destroyed and [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► so they all end up in Sitka Alaska and [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► it's 50 years later and there's one of [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► these like Hong Kong with a hundred-year [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► least there's a 50-year lease on the [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► space the space is about to be vacated [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► which means that all the Jews in Sitka [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► are having to find somewhere else [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► somewhere else in the world it's sort of [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► a new diaspora and in this there's a [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► murder mystery that's told from the [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► perspective of the policeman who are [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► working in the last days of this Jewish [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► enclaves existence if you got to have a [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► Shamus if you've got a murder mystery [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► you got you got you got to have it and [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► there's mysticism in it too so it's not [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► just the old history there [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► the whole idea of a mystical kind of but [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► it's just such a well-done homage to you [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► know youryour Raymond Chandler Dashiell [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► and Hammett style detective novels oh [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► yeah it's 24 tits or LLL construct [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► hard-boiled detective story except that [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► it's got this quacky alt universe [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► setting right which is that I mean it [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► the fact that the you know one of the [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► best writers in the English language is [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► playing in John was like this delight me [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► to no end that he he is he [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► you know you put him on the list he is I [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► would fight to the end of the earth to [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► say that Michael Chabon is one of the [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► best writers period in the English [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► language if not be besties in the top [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► five or ten and he writes young adult [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► and sci-fi and think I'm gonna handle [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► even and comic books and things that are [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► kind of asked you and mashing up John [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► Roos and then doing amazing man won a [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► Pulitzer to ya for kept for Kavalier and [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► clay would use this is fantastic but it [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► has the same capital and clay has this [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► thing that it stung me when I read it [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► and it it also stunned me in English [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► policemen is uh he's not writing as a [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► magical realism is running fully in the [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► alternative world that it creates a very [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► realistically defined world that [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► parallels real development scattering [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► clay it's you know it's a comic but it's [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► a different duh set of which comic book [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► heroes became big right instead of [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► Superman it's the escapist and writing [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► that book there's a scene that I [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► remember a time it wasn't showing that i [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► was just so stunned by it because you're [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► reading along and he goes to the [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► cemetery and is trying to essentially [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► commune with his stead have been sort of [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► our main character whatever main [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► characters turkey with is the dead music [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► magician who trained him and he said [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► he's not going to show up he's not going [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► to show up and he didn't show up and [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► then he turns around there is and you're [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► like oh wow he just want to just do [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► there [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► he took me out of this be no it isn't [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► easter said we're in the real world [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► people die and there's nothing else and [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► then over here is the ghost and the same [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► thing use policeman where you're you're [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► sort of like this guy is not the Machine [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► he's not the Messiah this is all sort of [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► fever dream and and all you know there's [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► all these political plans and all this [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► other stuff going on like oh my goodness [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► gracious [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► he is perhaps you may be less i am maybe [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► but he has the the scene when he when [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► the wife of the of the rabbi of the [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► litter alli is recounting to the [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► detective that you know how our son [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► visited her right and the son who is may [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► or may not be the Messiah is able to eat [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► she thinks he's overweight woman and she [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► looks at him again and realizes that he [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► has no he just made her perceived that [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► and you like what what is that is that [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► you know a godlike power [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► what is his role in Redemption and and [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► it's just it just breaks you out of this [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► hole you know realistic all history into [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► something that's like magical realism it [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► isn't [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► Wow and that's the end of that seems the [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► podcast looks like everyone's just [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► wrapped it right now you have that [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► moment where you bought into the premise [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► and said this is a wacky premise but now [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► it's being held [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► it's being handled in a real-world [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► certain way and then there's that twist [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► where he says ah but what if they're [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► right and this guy is was is the Messiah [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► and uh it's like the end of Miracle on [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► thirty-fourth Street and the red calf [TS]

00:49:48 ◼   ► has been born because there's a whole [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► thing about the breeding the cows to get [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► the red calf that's truly have a redcap [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► you know that's really good yet know [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► that you know I know it's kit comes up [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► in the goddamn spirit as well there's a [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► meme the red heifer must be bored the [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► red heifer the red heifer in in hyper [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► like nothing amusing that there's a [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► messiah but not until Endymion [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► ah but you know shape on the characters [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► are great you do have that cannot neared [TS]

00:50:19 ◼   ► well the pop and his partner [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► I mean he's literally you know every [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► private I you know from hardwell crime [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► fiction right yeah he's got the ex-wife [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► and you know he's got you know the [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► partner drinking problem drinking [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► problem chest problems got a terrible [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► chest problem huh what's got his court [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► right like every every detective always [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► has there there's their little quirk and [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► i love i love how well that ship on a [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► sort of mixes the the language that he [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► uses in like the the the terminology in [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► the vocab [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► very mixing finish with in such a way [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► that it's so seamlessly comes off [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► sounding like hard-boiled detective [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► speak right in the same way that you [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► might call it on like a heater or [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► something like it's a kind of all bleeds [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► together in it totally works [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► I just found that it so well done and so [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► engrossing in the way that he just you [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► know this is what would happen if you [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► had put all these that's very clunky an [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► orange people like that in there [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► yeah and there's I mean it that in [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► comparison with the the whole you know [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► substituting sort of instead of the the [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► Jews having to deal with the a you know [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► Palestinians who are their they're [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► sharing this land with the Native [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► Americans yielding all sorts of you know [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► obviously parallel disputes and and sort [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► of interesting meshing of the the native [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► religion and Judaism and all these these [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► conflicts and anyway you know and they [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► want the land and so does the American [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► government right right is reminded of [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► interesting things about the setting is [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► that the the US government is basically [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► said it's funny because of course we [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► have a US government that's a supporter [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► of Israel and has been since it was [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► founded and in this novel the US [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► government is basically telling all the [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► Jews on its soil get beat it [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► we're done with you get you know it is a [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► very stark contrast and the end you know [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► everybody's afraid of being left behind [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► and being essentially stateless which is [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► you know crazy but that's the situation [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► that they're in it such a contrast yeah [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► it's me it's a great term as you get it [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► right about that you gotta write about [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► at some level like the Palestinians or [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► stateless people [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► yeah but you know with this sort of [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► unfamiliar place in the Jews to create [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► Israel what things to the Jewish people [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► are the Disraeli styling pioneers what [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► did they do to make their state and in [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► this case they were totally powerless [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► like here's the notes godforsaken place [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► the frozen north and and you know make [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► something of it which they do for 50 [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► years and then then get out [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► mu mu nu no no more red how not the half [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► are not the half four different new [TS]

00:53:05 ◼   ► alright we're communing with our with [TS]

00:53:07 ◼   ► our Judaism apparently if you say so [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► I'll run that by my wife Paula mentions [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► written [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► ah yes now you're speaking German prison [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► or is it a little a little a little of [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► both you can talk one way you can talk [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► to the other [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► alright Michael Chabon I'll throw it out [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► their Road up young adult novel in 2002 [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► called Summerland which is fantastic and [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► features a fairyland where the fairies [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► all play baseball [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► it's always summer time and it is also [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► rotate a strange little book called the [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► applicable final solution about a [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► basically a detective a retired older [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► detective who may be familiar if you've [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► read a lot of detective fiction [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► uh-huh and he wrote he wrote a small [TS]

00:53:53 ◼   ► novel called gentlemen of the road world [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► as we truly believe he said he's working [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► title with something like jews in Asia [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► and basically an accident it its attack [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► or a ski is an action book and they've [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► got swords and they fight and they do [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► you think they're gonna die and then [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► they don't die and you think they're [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► gonna die and they don't die and it's [TS]

00:54:11 ◼   ► it's hugely fun I mean that's the thing [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► about this guy is is his books are not [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► snoozes they are they're all really good [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► so you know I i actually just read his [TS]

00:54:23 ◼   ► up essay collection manhood for amateurs [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► and and that was great too so he's a [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► he's one of my favorites and if you're [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► going to start [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► I mean I guess you start with this one [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► and you start with the Amazing [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► Adventures of Kavalier and clay which [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► you won the Pulitzer for which is a [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► terrific masterwork of a book a parallel [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► book to that by the way is Carter beats [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► the devil out nearly the same time [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► finish tonight right that totally [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► underrated book and there are many [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► things in common I think they're written [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► almost the same you know the same here [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► as Kavalier and clay but very very [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► underrated book again again with the [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► magical realism a little bit of it you [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► know a little goes a long way and that's [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► a Glen David gold that's right that's [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► rather that I have a copy that i picked [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► this one of the ones i picked up just [TS]

00:55:07 ◼   ► off a whim you know looking at the [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► bookshelf and now you know i was at some [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► point had like magicians was a very big [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► interest of mine and and it looked it [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► has great you know cover and sort of [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► this old-timey [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► Houdini era poster it's just I don't [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► know it's something about it intrigued [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► me and I picked it up and read it on [TS]

00:55:25 ◼   ► women and it was fantastic i would say [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► the two you can pick a better claim one [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► hand car beats the devil on the other [TS]

00:55:30 ◼   ► and the very next books to read [TS]

00:55:32 ◼   ► back-to-back they're very similar [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► fundamental nature of the different [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► writing styles both incredibly good [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► reads all right I that's a good [TS]

00:55:41 ◼   ► transition for me to ask you anything [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► that you've been reading or that you [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► would like to recommend a massive [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► incomparable list listening audience I I [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► keep putting books down I never do this [TS]

00:55:51 ◼   ► and I've been reading books at the [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► suggestion of people on Twitter and on [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► this podcast and I got put down week i [TS]

00:55:56 ◼   ► could not proceed through weekend was [TS]

00:55:59 ◼   ► infamous for something no info quick i [TS]

00:56:01 ◼   ► have now you know like I've got but [TS]

00:56:03 ◼   ► haven't read way to come by robert [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► sawyer i mentioned that was a hugo [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► nominee and that's the blind as the [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► blind girl right with the emergent yeah [TS]

00:56:10 ◼   ► internet I having trouble with the [TS]

00:56:12 ◼   ► windup girl to I'm partway into that and [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► I know we talked about that before [TS]

00:56:15 ◼   ► it's very it's good it's very difficult [TS]

00:56:17 ◼   ► time finding it's such a it's that it's [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► the parts of snow crash or like the era [TS]

00:56:22 ◼   ► the diamond age like this is well where [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► there's parts that are so unpleasant and [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► gritty actually parts of the girl with [TS]

00:56:27 ◼   ► the dragon tattoo same thing it's like [TS]

00:56:29 ◼   ► you're like man if I can get through [TS]

00:56:30 ◼   ► this part maybe I could read more of it [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► but i'm not sure i have the wherewithal [TS]

00:56:33 ◼   ► to like get through all this incredible [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► gritty dirty sweaty awfulness but i will [TS]

00:56:38 ◼   ► try [TS]

00:56:39 ◼   ► alright Dan i just read spin some kept i [TS]