The Incomparable

00:00:00 ◼   ► the in tom purple Todd test number 20 a [TS]

00:00:08 ◼   ► morris 2011 [TS]

00:00:11 ◼   ► we are back on the incomparable your [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► source for all discussions about topics [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► that are relatively Kiki and major I [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► hope I'm not offending anybody by saying [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► that I there was a time in my life when [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► I was a teenager in the eighties where I [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► i guess i would be offended if somebody [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► said my interests were geeky although if [TS]

00:00:31 ◼   ► I was standing there wearing a doctor [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► who t-shirt then I would be have no [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► defense i would be a supposed to use [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► your son exclude driver and teach them a [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► lesson [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► yes I didn't have a scrubbing sonic [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► screwdriver i did have actually even [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► worse it was a glow-in-the-dark Doctor [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► Who t-shirt with the five doctors ormond [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► this is presumably so you can see how [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► many girls were not impressed by the [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► t-shirt at you why was I was going to [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► mention barrels at least in the context [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► of I did wear to high school a couple of [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► times and I know I never dated anybody [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► in high school so connect the dots [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► coincidence i think i think not my [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► Motley Crue that joins me today a [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► combination we haven't had before this [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► podcast i believe we have joining us [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► from from the lovely silver city of [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► alameda Lisa Schmeisser hi Lisa [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► hello also joining me today is John [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► siracusa hi John [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► you know I think this is kind of like [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► this long-running TV dramas were [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► eventually everybody has to be on a show [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► with everybody else [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► every permutation must be explored so [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► I'm happy to further that goal [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► excellent excellent and our very own Ted [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► McGinley himself scott mcneil the-- [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► hello who have nothing in response to [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► that I get you shouldn't you should be [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► offended you should shout this podcast [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► is over i'm saving that for later later [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► thank you that's right always keep the [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► red button I'm ready to be pushed so our [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► topic today is a different one for us a [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► little bit [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► Lisa send a message to our our little [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► incomparable mailing list talking about [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► geek culture as a concept in general and [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► the the concepts of you know geek [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► culture is a secret culture or you know [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► was it accidentally secret was it secret [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► because nobody really cared to join me [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► so we were all alone in it and one of [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► the one of the articles that came up was [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► a piece that ran and wired a little [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► while ago by comedian Patton [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► Oswalt very funny fellow who those of [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► you who are not familiar with his comedy [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► may know as the voice of the the remedy [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► the rat in ratatouille [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► you may also know him as the although i [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► don't know many kings of king of queens [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► listeners who might listen to the [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► incomparable but if you are a a king of [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► queens viewer he was on that sitcom as [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► well [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► very funny fellow and as it turns out [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► remarkably nerdy which I I wasn't aware [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► of that he wrote a piece and wired [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► called wake up geek culture time to die [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► which itself is a blade runner reference [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► by the way and in it he talks about nerd [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► culture and how back in the day and the [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► eighties he felt that he was part of a [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► secret society who was able to shout out [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► Monty Python references and and Princess [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► Bride references and talk about various [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► monsters in the monster manual of [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► Dungeons and Dragons and and refer to [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► specific Star Trek episodes and was [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► reading not just the watchman but the [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► swamp thing run of alan moore that [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► preceded the watch men and how in this [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► day of Internet a knowledge and in many [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► ways a celebration of the culture that [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► this has been lost now some of what he [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► writes it's sort of silly but some of it [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► i think is also very serious and and [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► will link to it in the show notes and [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► you might want to stop and read it and [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► then come back if you have that sort of [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► multitasking podcast person but so so [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► with that said I i wanted to start by [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► getting reactions to to what Patton [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► Oswalt road and also maybe a little bit [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► about sort of your looking back on your [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► life and and how you kind of got [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► immersed in more geeky pursuits [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► Lisa I you you're the one who brought [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► this to our attention you know where [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► would you like to start [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► I i have to admit i'm a big patton [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► oswalt family I have all of his albums i [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► read this essay right after I finished [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► reading his books Dombey spaceship [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► apocalypse and the premise of which can [TS]

00:04:26 ◼   ► you explain the zombie spaceship [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► apocalypse premise there because it [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► seems pretty self-explanatory 10 there [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► are actually three separate concepts [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► oh yeah you know as Walter Isaacson that [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► most fantasy and sci-fi folk can be [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► divided into one of three tribes those [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► who connect with zombie stories those [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► who connect with spaceship stories and [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► those who connect with the [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► post-apocalyptic landscape stories and [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► his premise is that how you connect [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► actually says a lot about you as a [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► person for example people who connect [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► with spaceships stories tend not to be [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► very interested in solving problems [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► where they are because they're like [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► screw this i'll just find another space [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► system and in real life they tend to be [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► pretty self-contained they tend to be [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► prepared for everything because they [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► have that on a spaceship mentality and [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► he alleges that most comedians connect [TS]

00:05:12 ◼   ► with straight across the [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► post-apocalyptic landscape type [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► scenarios because it's about the total [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► disintegration chaos of society and [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► observing what comes next so he'd [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► already begun working on a sort of nerd [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► taxonomy and then this article came out [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► and I I see him sort of codifying his [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► argument even more and I think the thing [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► that rubs me the wrong way is it's a [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► nostalgia soaked piece in the sense oh I [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► was in to watch my back before it was a [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► byword for a spectacularly bad movie and [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► it's it's kind of doing the same thing [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► that the social groups who really did [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► ostracized ostracized nerds and geeks [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► did to us back in the eighties which is [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► it's creating a hierarchy putting people [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► in it and assigning value judgments to [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► it and its complaint as well you people [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► who are geeks today aren't geeky enough [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► because you don't have to work that hard [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► for the arcana but there's not a [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► commitment [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► yes exactly um I can remember going to [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► virginia tech in 1990 and meeting up [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► with a group with a mutual friends group [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► of friends who were huge into this the [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► this icon circuit and they had all of [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► these in jokes that you would know if [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► you had been attending Baltic on and [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► Dragon Con in the rest of the cons to [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► the eighties and somehow in order to be [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► part of this group I was going to have [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► to be expected to hunt down the [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► references and spend enough time around [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► these people that could build a social [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► capital to be included in the [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► conversation and needless to say that [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► was like the first last time I hung out [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► with these folks but well I mean come on [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► uh it's just that the the notion that [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► you have to have some sort of [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► admissions test to qualify for being [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► interested in the subculture that it is [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► something i can see keeps coming up with [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► it is it's just an idea that rubs me the [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► wrong way [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► well it's not a jock is not a joke move [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► i'm right i mean i mean is not have to [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► try a 13 exclude an exclusive excluding [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► people because they're not cool enough [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► and I don't pass for your membership [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► test is is I mean it sounds like a very [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► unnerved like thing to do i would [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► actually and you can also get a band [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► geek / drama club move because you have [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► to have some monochrome of talent or [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► some cult of personality aspected that [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► lets you run around with the people who [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► are always putting on coffin our place [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► and I thought it's it's very typical of [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► people of a geeky orderly persuasion to [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► want to assign hierarchies because if [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► you take a look at the passions that [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► drive people like Dungeons and Dragons [TS]

00:07:32 ◼   ► or comic book collecting or Star Wars [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► there there's part of the appeals is [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► this Universal internal consistent rules [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► apply to make order of it so it's an [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► understandable impulse I just think it's [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► reprehensible when it comes to human [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► nature and it also seems to be [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► remarkably unselfconscious when you know [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► come on the part of being a geek or nerd [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► was you had a degree of ostracize ation [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► which led you to observe other social [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► groups and see how they function so why [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► aren't you turning that on to your own [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► little rules and structures what is what [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► seems to be saying is that the reason [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► that that people got into these kind of [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► key topics because they were not really [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► discussed and widely known and and i [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► read that and thought that I don't think [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► that's the case at all i think that I i [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► think it was the reverse I think that I [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► was interested in things that were [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► narrower than than what other people [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► were interested in not because they were [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► narrow but be just because I I i like [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► them so my question is you know it do we [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► like reading about you know hearing [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► stories about about people on spaceships [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► are on other planets because we're where [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► you know we want to be separate from the [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► crowd or just because we like that extra [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► layer of kind of imagination that [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► something like sci-fi or fantasy can [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► give us that some stuff that's more [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► literal wouldn't give us [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► I don't think patent was saying that we [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► like them because they're [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► are there narrow his the beginning part [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► of that sa was all tangled up into these [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► these poorly supported most the [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► conclusions that I totally disagree with [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► a minute veered off into this comedy [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► thing so it's hard to it's hard to get [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► it what he was like trying to say [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► because he'd go from one party to the [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► next you just throw something out there [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► completely unsupported just you know [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► saying it as if it's a fact then move on [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► to his next point and almost all those [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► points early works better spoken in a [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► stand-up routine i would think yeah [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► because then you can laugh and he but [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► you know if you think about any of them [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► out sticking and that you can sink into [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► the rhythm and make center and you're [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► saying like you know is it because [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► they're narrow you're trying to examine [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► his earlier argument as if they're there [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► logically constructed and try to think [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► of some sort of underlying he might have [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► and I think there's a decent argument [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► here which is you know d is nerd culture [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► exciting because it gives the Nerds [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► something that only they know that that [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► all the other people don't know or is it [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► just the way it is because that's the [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► stuff that being nerdy being geeky means [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► you were interested in in in these [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► things you know just because you are it [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► has nothing to do with excluding other [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► people i think it's a little bit i think [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► it's a little more a little more dire [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► than that and that i think the people [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► who are geeks in high school are the [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► people who are who don't have the tools [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► or are not successful at the the the [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► social game that sort of defines high [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► school right and for whatever reason [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► they're just you know they're shy there [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► they're awkward they're they're insecure [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► they have some sort of problem that [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► keeps them out of the larger social game [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► that's that the the norm right and i [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► think once you're out of that game you [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► need to find something else to to [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► accelerator to be interested in you just [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► have more time for other things now I [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► say that because i think that the the [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► love for things the geeks like [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► spaceships robots you know fantasy novel [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► stuff like that that stuff is if I [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► pretty much evenly distributed across [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► all kids of that age I believe but it [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► only manifests in the people who are who [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► don't do well in the social structure of [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► of that that time period of their lives [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► and they you know dive right into ahead [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► for [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► just and and that ties back into the [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► panel's thing always talks about the the [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► dude in the gym who's got the above that [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► thing on his sleeve is lifting weights [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► and he was the jock who is you know [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► beating up on high school but now he [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► thinks he can co-opt both that an actual [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► he's cool [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► I think he liked both it just as much as [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► you did he just wasn't is dedicated and [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► obsessed right in in high school and [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► that's what I think it is i don't think [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► it has to do with were more interested [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► in these topics and other people you [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► know obviously this visit i could hit a [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► spectrum there is just that it we [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► dedicated ourselves more to it because [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► we didn't have other things to dedicate [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► ourselves to with that sports or [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► relationships or anything like that [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► they're so so this is the thing that we [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► could master whereas somebody else might [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► just think it was cool I i do i really [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► like what you said there because i think [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► that there's truth in that that you know [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► it's not that this stuff wasn't [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► appreciated by lots of people I really [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► refute the idea i'm not sure if [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► anybody's actually made this accusation [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► but i felt a little of it coming from [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► Oswalt that that the reason people like [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► stories about spaceships or or or [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► fantasy realms is because they've [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► decided to retreat from reality and [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► that's the only reason you'd like them [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► is because you're an outcast which just [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► like no wrong or you like them because [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► they're because they're narrowly I mean [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► if anything geeks to meet these geeks [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► wanted to be part of the group why would [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► they seek out something that took them [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► away from the group you know they were [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► to this just means that's just not the [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► impulse you know there they were looking [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► for any other kid who played the india [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► with them in honey you know I I i think [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► i was just completely clueless when I [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► think back to high school but when I put [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► on that glow in the dark doctor who [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► shirt I was just like I thought it was I [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► didn't think it was cool it's just I [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► liked it and so I wore it and i think if [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► i had been more aware of how to build up [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► some more social standing [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► I would have known that that was a [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► really bad idea and I figured that out [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► much later denied all knowledge of the [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► it's likely that you're bad you're not a [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► second you were not able to successfully [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► navigate the social structure of high [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► school for whatever reason you know you [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► just didn't have until they clicked [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► right but right so it was almost [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► cluelessness more than anything else I [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► didn't was like well I can master Doctor [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► Who because nobody else will have me it [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► was more like I just I was like oh this [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► is cool not aware that it was so not [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► cool [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► so it and if you have found other doctor [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► who fans you ever like yes you should [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► let me go [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► you about Doctor Who I love it I think [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► you'll love it too and that you know you [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► wouldn't like heart jealously as if you [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► here we want like no you can't know [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► about doc Oh God let me tell you John [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► there was another doctor who fan in my [TS]

00:13:37 ◼   ► high school and os was it your [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► arch-nemesis [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► no no he was the geekiest person at the [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► high school he oh my god he was your [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► stereotypical a geeky guy nerdy guy he [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► kind of couldn't talk to people [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► hehe was super super like science guy [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► and he will actually wore he wore the [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► Tom Baker scarf around all the time and [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► and even I knew that was a faux pas [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► socially so i couldn't i I couldn't bear [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► to have any sort of alliance with him [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► even though he was kind of a kid's [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► kindred spirit and we occasionally he'd [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► be like oh you like Doctor Who to like [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► uh yeah I got a thing I gotta go because [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► he was so far out there so I I feel bad [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► about it now but he was just like no no [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► that way lies madness so but it wasn't [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► because you felt like now that another [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► person interested in it lessens the [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► attraction of Doctor Who to me it didn't [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► affect your attractive doctor who at all [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► no sadly did there was actually kind of [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► a dividing line between geek experiences [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► in high school versus college [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► we're in high school I i agree with John [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► that some of some of the the the geek [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► set as it were if you have to put the [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► parentheses around certainly comes from [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► not being able to navigate high school's [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► rules and structures which I want to add [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► is not necessarily a bad thing but in [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► college I noticed a lot of geeks were [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► very very rigorous about reinforcing [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► what they thought the parameters and [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► boundaries of geek culture were and they [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► were very quick to throw you out of it [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► or call you as a fraud if you couldn't [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► keep up with the code [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► um there's you couldn't quote the [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► princess bride with the group that you [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► were if you can answer Monty Python [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► quote with a corresponding quote or if [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► you couldn't keep track of whether that [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► Jean Grey was alive or dead on a given [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► day up which is hard you for Furyk for [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► example in high school the guy who [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► passed me elfquest comic books in [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► English class was also the school pot [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► dealer so he kind of move back and forth [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► between always [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► different interests so he could you [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► could get your own you can hook you up [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► with health quest or with pop well if [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► you really like elfquest I I have [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► something there is a little bit of [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► chemical you gonna say I'm gonna say [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► it's hard to say which one of those [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► things worse [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► actually if you smoke the pot the [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► HealthQuest gasps colors and that is a [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► comic that makes a lot more sense like [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► the hair dissolving sudden start to come [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► together whereas again in college and [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► again this at people who were in Society [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► for Creative Anachronism would have [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► never ever been caught dead hanging with [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► the people who are doing homegrown [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► pharmaceuticals and again you have the [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► Conn crowd which would darkly Lou 20 [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► that thing Harlan Ellison did back in 86 [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► and all cackle and then look at you like [TS]

00:16:17 ◼   ► you're supposed to say yes it was [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► terrible when you could not have given [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► two graphs with Harlan also have done [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► back in 1986 and senses Harlan Ellison [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► the list is long so it's it's the idea [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► it as well refers to so talking words [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► out since our little world and people [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► that can roll around the minutiae and [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► you really master a subject in Johnson's [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► well yeah that's because you really have [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► nothing else going on and I thought well [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► maybe it's kind of a form of of [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► hostility where you're like oh you've [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► excluded me [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► well i'm just going to just to show you [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► i'm going to master elvish and write [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► long saugus about how much you suck in [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► elevation it is a hospital with your [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► references to or is it I mean I since [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► I've got this defensive pneus I've gotta [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► you know I've got to I've got two little [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► kids you know you get kids kids kind of [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► want to master something and and I think [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► some of it is that you know if if your [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► world is kind of not understandable you [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► know as a kid you might you might [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► memorize 13 work around it is yeah all [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► the kind of training or all the cuts [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► Star Wars cards or you know you can pick [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► it's like as a kid you don't just one [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► moment is so popular is because exact [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► yeah my pokemon so popular is because as [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► a child you can figure out okay this is [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► that classification system right this is [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► part of the world i can understand these [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► are the rules this all makes sense that [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► we can a master at this [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► yeah yeah yeah I think that's what [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► drives sort of that kind of kiki drive [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► to to do that is sort of like to make [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► save something and have some [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► understanding and control over it [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► my main problem with this whole idea of [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► geek culture is that it is somehow [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► separate from normal culture right [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► because people [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► are obsessed with a variety of things [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► well that's what also wants that's right [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► he says you know but people are geeking [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► out over that Real Housewives of Beverly [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► Hills you know that married to a [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► baseball not exact and I think you know [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► I think that so a lot of geek culture [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► depends on technology and the written [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► word which is a form of Technology right [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► and so the only reason and I'm just [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► thinking of this right now since make [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► absolutely no sense but i think the only [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► reason that Sports is not considered [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► geeky is because people have been doing [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► it for so much longer so it's just part [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► of the culture and it's okay to like [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► sports because we've been doing it since [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► humans have been you know cognizant of [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► being humans because you know you're [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► running from a tiger something that then [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► becomes a an event that's playing sports [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► not being a sports fan no I saw an [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► interview with the woman who who got in [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► the news because she wanted to wear her [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► star trek uniform too when she was on a [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► jury [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► I saw it and and what she made a point [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► that i have not been able to refute [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► which is why is it weird for me where my [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► star trek uniform but it's not weird for [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► a guy to wear a baseball team or a [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► football team uniform to a baseball game [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► and it's like well you know I think [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► she's got a point there [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► it's true that's why i'm so confused [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► like let's take baseball for example not [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► to you know ostracize any particular [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► numbers of this podcast but I think [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► baseball is probably the creepiest sport [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► oh yeah the world it is right because I [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► yeah it's absolutely it's incredibly [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► boring it's in there are people who are [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► not very athletic [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► it's like a man or get exactly and then [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► all the fans fans are obsessed with [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► statistics that you can't get geekier [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► than that [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► yeah well that's that's that's why i [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► tell it not to take a little tiny peek [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► into Lisa's private life but Lisa is a [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► member of a comic book club and you know [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► she goes cheap she will haunt local [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► comic book stores and her husband [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► couldn't know the Floyd he does now know [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► more about comic books because his wife [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► has has taught him well but not you know [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► and so you can have that moment of [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► offense it's like why there aren't that [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► many women who appreciate comics and [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► this guy he's not worth but you know her [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► Lisa's husband loves baseball and that's [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► one of the things that he does have kind [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► of geeky street just runs two different [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► things and you could argue that baseball [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► his appreciation for baseball is really [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► no different that leases [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► appreciation for comic books although [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► i'm sure he would beat me up and now I [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► told him that actually now I think we've [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► actually come to the agreement that [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► they're pretty parallel and I've also [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► known people who have managed to have [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► for lack of a better word parallel geeky [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► passions for example my brother who also [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► has a comics podcast strangely enough [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► um is a comic book fan he's also [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► classical musician he's very very [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► passionate about dr. so my brother isn't [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► it is a vagner opera teak as well as [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► being a massive geek about the flash [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► series of DC comment on how hard it [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► would be to get into that into that [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► little little circle the bogner circle [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► you say one wrong thing to the Brahms [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► installing your gods are horrible and no [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► classical music people are are just get [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► that that's a whole that's a whole [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► different game I mean yeah I i am [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► humbled world amateur now consider if [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► the class is equal [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► oh we are so so what raw what led me [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► because they think they talk about [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► things that happened in the eighteen [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► hundreds like it was yesterday [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► it's amazing it's a fascinating [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► subculture one of the things that Patton [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► Oswalt talks about that i think i think [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► is an interesting point which is you [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► know when you're in [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► I mean we all we grew up in very [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► different environments and you know East [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► Coast and West Coast and big cities and [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► small towns and but one thing that the [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► Internet has done is eliminated the [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► sense that you are the only or one of a [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► small group of people who who is [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► interested in anything right there [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► what used to be it's just me or it's [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► just two or three people you go on the [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► internet now and you realize it's not [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► just you it's you and like a thousand or [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► ten thousand other people which you know [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► I I do feel like Oswalt's right when he [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► says you know will never again have that [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► feeling of kind of like near isolation [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► that I discovered this thing because now [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► you can go out there and get the faq [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► that tells you everything you need to [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► know about that thing and a mailing list [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► that's got 10,000 people on that [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► isolation is a bad thing though I agree [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► the isolation is bad i mean that that's [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► what spawned those groups that are so [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► hostile to outsiders because if you go [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► through that experience where where it's [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► where you're ostracized in high school [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► and [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► you have and you get a chip on your [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► shoulder that when you finally meet up [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► with more like people in college you'd [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► be more inclined to make an exclusive [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► group that is hostile to outsiders and [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► so on and so forth I think the Internet [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► is breeding a that's why did you hear ya [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► series of geeks I think the geeks [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► they're growing up today i have the [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► benefit of not having that horrible [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► experience because they don't have they [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► could never even imagine that there [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► alone and that by the time they get [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► older they won't have that you know sort [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► of chip on their shoulders they want to [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► seek out revenge or exclude people the [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► way they were excluded and that's why I [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► think you see geek culture spreading so [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► much because people who are growing up [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► in the age of the Internet don't have [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► these problems and it becomes more [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► normal everybody plays video games of if [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► we have I should put in the show notes [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► for this the penny arcade strip was it [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► way back 2001 where they did a strip [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► about adds to the original playstation [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► and the ads were advertising to [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► basically look like you know a hip [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► happening good looking teenagers the [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► people that who actual video gamers [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► hated and that's Tony was advertising to [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► me the games were going mainstream and [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► they have a problem that's what like [TS]

00:23:15 ◼   ► wait a second these guys weren't you [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► know playing nes in the basement with me [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► they were out playing football why do [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► they get to be part of games well that [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► sort of democratization of geek culture [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► I think we'll it is as a result of it [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► becoming clear that this is not you know [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► and just think it's kind of like when [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► you have all these little islands of [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► people who are you know if their own [TS]

00:23:37 ◼   ► geeks in their own high schools they [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► could imagine that they were the only [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► ones but once you start connecting those [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► people they sort of like a look around [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► and see each other and rise up you know [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► it's like a rebel forces kept separate [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► once they're joined together you know [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► they cannot go here and do something as [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► a group bicker amongst each other [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► yeah well you know that that's part of [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► it but that's I mean people arguing [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► about you know jets vs giants or [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► whatever you know in your high school [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► the entire time you're there sports [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► teams constant struggle that but no one [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► is arguing over you know a DD vs AD&D [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► except for you and your two friends [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► right yeah well not my high school but I [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► went to an incredibly key high school so [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► yeah they really thought I was gonna say [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► that the beginning really does depend on [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► where you've grown up because I've [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► talked to a lot of people and the [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► experience varies wildly some people go [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► to like you know schools for gifted [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► children where everybody's playing D&D [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► and you know it's it's not a big deal [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► and something that other people like [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► they're the one guy in Idaho [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► who's ever heard of dnd and I i was i [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► was saying as I was listening to our our [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► role playing podcast that that I I was [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► the guy who had all the books and stuff [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► and could never get a game together [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► because there weren't enough people that [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► are not enough people in your entire [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► school see it honestly never occurred to [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► me the DVD was nerdy and the reason is i [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► know that i wanted you or did you grow [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► up xavier school for the gifted no [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► actually no it's the it's the US Navy [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► because my dad brought dnd into the [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► house and my dad used to go out on [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► nuclear subs because he was he worked as [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► a songwriter engineer and so he would go [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► out nuclear subs and dulce trials for [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► weeks at a time and dnd was actually a [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► huge among Navy submarine crews and then [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► it worked its way to the defense [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► contractor for the defense contractor [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► workforce and they brought home to their [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► families and when I grew up and so when [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► I was in Middle School my dad help me [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► roll a couple characters and he'd have [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► me play with the guys in the Navy and he [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► would play my character for me on lunch [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► breaks and I never thought of it as [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► nerdy I just thought it was it was [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► something that people just did and it [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► was it wasn't until you can i switched [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► high schools that i realized that no [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► this is actually considered kind of [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► weird [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► oh and this is why all new nuclear [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► submarines are equipped with magic [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► missiles [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► thank ya good this is why there's a [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► paladin of every crew but when you think [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► about it it's I don't know if tsr [TS]

00:25:51 ◼   ► actually went after the submarine [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► audience or if it was like a happy [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► accident [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► mark no I don't think that was part of [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► their marketing plan submarine I can't [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► Cruise that's where we have to [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► concentrate [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► I i watch two things that they did it [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► should because honestly because honestly [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► it should have been you've got a group [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► of people who are underwater for three [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► to six months out of the year active [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► audience all men they got a big market [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► they'll really you know they'll already [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► love it they are already loving her well [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► family with ranking capriciousness as so [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► you know why not give them the cake pops [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► and work on that I mean because it gets [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► boring down there and these guys like [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► being able to have the the games that [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► both instructions provided the room for [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► improvisation it's like it was like a [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► perfect marriage of a entertainment [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► audience i do think that the that the [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► the democratization of geek culture is a [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► good thing I mean you look at something [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► like comic-con [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► that began as as a very niche thing and [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► you know what is comic-con now I want [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► first time she okay yeah well for the [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► first time last year and it's it's you [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► know a little bit on the geeky side and [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► you still got your your areas that are [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► comics focus but you know they're there [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► are people cast members from TV shows [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► that have no even remote connection to [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► get culture who were there and and but i [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► think it's a good thing that the fact [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► that the entertainment weekly does [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► stories about things that are happening [TS]

00:27:05 ◼   ► in comics you know the fact is star wars [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► changed I think the way our culture [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► views science fiction we can argue about [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► the the pros and cons of Star Wars Star [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► Wars isn't like serious science fiction [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► that you read a novel but the fact is [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► now every summer blockbuster basically [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► is sci-fi or or a superhero or fantasy [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► or something like that and and it's [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► changed the way that the general culture [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► of use those kind of stories it's no [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► longer you know it's not to say [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► everybody's rushing out and buying [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► serious sci-fi novels but it's it's [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► changed you know it's changed the way we [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► view that kind of genre because it's [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► then it is the genre 44 film if not for [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► TV and books it is for film i wonder how [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► much that has to do with what we're [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► still grappling with the fact that the [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► American frontier is closed in a way [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► because when you think about it if you [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► look at the trajectory of of popular [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► attitudes over the 20th century at the [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► very beginning of the 20th century one [TS]

00:28:08 ◼   ► of the American identity crisis was the [TS]

00:28:10 ◼   ► fact that there were no more territories [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► to homestead and and the frontier was [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► closed we hit the Pacific you know [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► Alaska most was already more Alaska was [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► basically the end of the line as it were [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► and there was a wave of popular culture [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► that lasted throughout the [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► nineteen-thirties where people were [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► trying to figure out what it meant is [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► the country once you literally ran out [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► of room to explore [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► and in a way outer space especially from [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► the fifties on outer space provided a [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► way for us to take that urge for [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► frontier exploration and conquest and [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► cast a wider and I wonder how much of [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► that we're still feeling because we're [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► such a small and interconnected world [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► right now thanks to the internet and it [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► does feel like it's a it does feel like [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► a tiny planet in many ways I mean we can [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► all look at protests going on in Libya [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► in ways that would have been just a [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► 5-minute sniff it on the news even 20 [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► years ago and so because the world feel [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► small and it feels very easy to master [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► maybe we're all looking again we're [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► casting RI outward because we also have [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► that urge for exploration frontiers and [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► the idea that you can hop on a spaceship [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► and find something else is tremendously [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► appealing I'd be as some adventure and [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► plus explosions the advance of [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► technology to help with that because [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► before you had Cowboys right because i [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► was technology and then you had jungle [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► adventures exploring africa right but as [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► soon as we got more technology that you [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► went right from the cowboy becomes the [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► jungle adventure becomes the astronaut [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► it's just the view the vehicle they ride [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► on the tools they used to do their job [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► but it's also one exploring so i don't [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► know if it turned as geeky as it just [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► the thing the geeks were into like if [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► you're if you're a kid you know decades [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► ago you would be into Roy Rogers because [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► Cowboys were the best guys or maybe [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► you'd be into you know that the British [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► explorers exploring you know the lost [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► continent in the jungles of africa but [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► that as soon as someone gets on a rocket [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► thats it thats you know did all those [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► kids just switch immediately from the [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► jungle Explorer from the cowboy to this [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► and then ended but now it changes honors [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► now it's sci-fi right now it's not your [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► cowboys warrants I fibers they were real [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► cowboys and jungle explorers were even [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► though the jungle explorers you know [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► we're always finding dinosaurs or [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► whatever that was [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► you didn't call it science fiction then [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► but it was just detected you sprinkle [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► technology on and people think it [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► changes into a different thing but it's [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► exactly the same story is you know the [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► kids fantasizing about nights in the [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► Middle Ages and it's the same thing but [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► they're all of the stories that you [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► mentioned have this element of I've left [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► the structures of society and I am free [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► to write my own narrative and to blaze a [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► path that other people will have to [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► follow and it's just like you said the [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► technology's changed there's a pretty [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► telling moment up when you think about [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► it because that is a whole lot [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► I'm going to explore the jungle and i'm [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► going to discover new species and boy [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► won't people be impressed when I bring [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► it back and if that's not a form of [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► geekery which has the element of boy [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► won't be people be impressed by my [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► mastery because there is some of that [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► you know it all goes back to [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► seven-year-olds want to make sense of [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► the planet goes back to geeks who want [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► to set up a hierarchy of you-know-who [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► who is the the quite solid rock of you [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► know the local high school and all goes [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► back to you boy you'll all be sorry I'm [TS]

00:31:16 ◼   ► happy I'll show you you know this world [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► has nothing for me i will dream of other [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► worlds that are ya [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► they called me mad at the academy and [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► saviors Academy plus uplands who I did [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► grow up in West Chester's you did grow [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► up in Westchester well I did you ever [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► run into kitty pryde how she doing she [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► ran through me [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► haha oh haha got me actually gone to [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► that school from what i heard of his [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► childhood where everyone's playing D&D [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► and they're all you know just geeking [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► out 24 hours Dave that's right it was it [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► was paradise my Mutant want to know what [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► his power was it was it wasn't one of it [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► one of things when I think back to the [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► stuff i was interested in high school [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► and that sort of experience I actually [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► think the thing that amazes me now is [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► that these things are celebrated in ways [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► that i didn't realize that I think that [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► I think that's true it has to do with [TS]

00:32:13 ◼   ► feeling at the time like maybe there [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► were some people who are interested in [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► the stuff but basically it was just me [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► and there was it was sort of that [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► feeling of isolation like God why does [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► nobody else care about this stuff and [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► and you look at it now and like that you [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► know what there's that the weezer song [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► in the garage which is basically like [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► taking off all the boxes of everything [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► that's a key person in me in the [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► seventies or eighties would be into you [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► know and and you know they bring back [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► doctor who and break I I they're like [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► regular people who are like oh I love [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► the new doctor who was like the new [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► Doctor Who well let me tell you but they [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► don't know it's a new doctor who they [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► don't know they don't they just think [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► it's doctor who is make sure it's on [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► I tried to explain to my mother that it [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► was on the sixties I blew her mind [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► yeah William Hartnell yes it came on [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► right after the Kennedy assassination [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► said no this is the new show i just [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► started watching [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► oh yeah so but now so that that's the [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► thing that kind of amazing and I'm [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► heartened by that I i I'm I'm i think [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► it's great that these are things that [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► because the bottom line for me was that [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► i'll appreciate those kinds of stories [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► and those kind of worlds and actually [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► sort of felt sad that more people didn't [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► like them because they were so [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► interesting and cool and why would you [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► like them and one of the nice things [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► about being in a connected world like we [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► are is that you can see that other [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► people not only do you find other people [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► who like them but I think it also [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► disseminates more and people who [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► wouldn't you know be into it my wife [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► wasn't into sci-fi or anything like that [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► but but she loves some of the sci-fi TV [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► and Doctor Who and things like that and [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► it's like you know ya see it is good it [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► is really I wasn't wrong i was a great [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► actually kind of a reverse effect [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► because you say like why weren't those [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► people into scifi like i said before i [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► don't think it's because that they [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► didn't like spaceships and didn't like [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► lightsaber stores or how about I think [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► it's because the that subject matter [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► became linked with the people who are [TS]

00:33:59 ◼   ► bad at high school and you didn't want [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► to associate with those people and then [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► you for you even though you watch Star [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► Wars a lot and you loved it [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► you're not going to wear the Star Wars [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► shirt to school or admit that you really [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► like Star Wars you may like it even more [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► than that geeky guy just because you [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► know that would push you down and social [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► standing and and that's why all these [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► people didn't like it did you say bad at [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► high school [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► yes I've actually been surprised by how [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► many of my girlfriend's her sister who [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► were so former sorority sisters [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► I've been surprised at how many of them [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► are completely fluent Star Trek The Next [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► Generation like I know a lot of women [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► who know that show inside and out who [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► are like the were the last people you [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► think of his geeky and yet they can [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► discourse at length on different [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► Starfleet captains and rank them in [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► order of preference and it's just it's [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► delightful you know without that was one [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► of my that was one of those those [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► moments where I realized that that that [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► geekiness was not was not a lonely [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► pursuit anymore was that in college we [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► had groups of people who watch I [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► remember I remember going to basically a [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► party for the Deep Space nine Premier [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► where they were like 21 when hero land [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► and it was like more than half women and [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► everybody's like cheering about [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► you-know-what Picard appears his cameo [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► or whatever and that was when I realized [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► wow this is not you know me in my room [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► by myself watching Star Trek this is [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► life everything happens uniform in my [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► well he never had a captain's uniform [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► sadly but my parents did by me and [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► enterprise from the Franklin Mint who [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► which i still have when I was a grad [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► school I shared a house with six other [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► people and two of them were going [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► through the MBA program and they were [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► also heading up the rowing team on the [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► MBA program so you're talking about two [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► incredibly athletic very specific [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► stereotypical beast be school students [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► and there was a math PhD who is kind of [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► not really living in this world because [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► he was living in his beautiful numbers [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► planet and an architect and engineer and [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► a recent Russian me great and I and we [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► would get together every Sunday night [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► and watch Star Trek The Next Generation [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► to get it was like this big family [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► dinner type thing we cook for each other [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► and sit down and bear in mind we barely [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► had two things to say to each other the [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► rest of the week but every Sunday night [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► come hell or high water all of us were [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► sitting in that living room with our [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► plates balance in our laps talking all [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► the way through the show and watching it [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► was just this really social experience [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► exaggerated was a was a real it was the [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► perfect show for that and it was really [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► had a broadening effect of you know [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► because people star trek permeated the [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► culture a lot with the that the reruns [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► have been out there for all that time [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► and kids have grown up with them and [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► then there were the movies and it was [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► the way the show was done you know it [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► was it wasn't really heavily serialize [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► it was really pretty accessible the [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► characters where you could get the [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► characters and it was a good show and I [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► think you put all those things together [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► and end and a lot of people even now you [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► mentioned Star Trek The Next Generation [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► and people are like oh yeah they can't [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► take off episodes and it's kind of [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► amazing how broad that show ended up [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► being a bronze reach was oh yeah but [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► that isn't isn't the difference between [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► so and i don't know if this turn up i [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► think it's an artificial difference but [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► he patent as well as making a difference [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► between pop culture and geek culture [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► right i think the only difference is [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► that of how deep you go into something [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► right so you can be you can enjoy Star [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► Trek and that maybe a geeky thing unto [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► itself but I don't think liking star [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► trek is Kiki but [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► really like I have behind me 6,000 star [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► trek the collectible card game cards [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► that is kinky so if i said to you well [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► you know not only do i liked the episode [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► where the card is trapped on the alien [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► planet with the other captain but then i [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► say well it's Darmok it's like okay [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► that's another level and I say well you [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► know the alien captain was played by [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► paul winfield who also played the [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► captain of the reliant and start to the [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► wrath of khan i said and i already knew [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► that so we heard around the whole [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► example and written by German oski who [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► ended up being a producer and star trek [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► voyager which was not a very good show [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► by the way but other limits because what [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► you're talking about these different [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► levels of involvement but if it's [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► Twilight we're talking about where [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► there's somebody who's gone through [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► harry potter right and one of the one of [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► the recurring members of our little [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► podcast crew here wrote Harry Potter [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► fanfiction I mean that's not her prop [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► Potter is a passive mainstream success [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► twilight is a massive success but [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► there's a major amount of geekery the [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► gloves on but the thing is up and maybe [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► hearing groping toward a unified theory [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► one of the things about decrease i'll [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► cut always comes back to it seems like [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► the subject that tend to attract geeks [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► tend to have incredibly consistent [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► internal rules in order and if you take [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► a look at harry potter you're talking [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► about a woman who filled up notebooks [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► and spend about 10 years thinking about [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► this university ahead while she was [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► riding it and has spread spreadsheets [TS]

00:38:33 ◼   ► for God's sake where she brought out [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► chronology of people's genealogies and [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► what happened after the books and things [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► like that so she had this universe with [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► incredibly consistent internal histories [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► and rules and I think for for geeks be [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► able to decode that and saying I [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► understand the universe was created by [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► somebody else is is part of the appeal [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► so what I'm wondering is if you can say [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► well this person is really to twilight [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► but they're never ever gonna be geeky [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► about twilight because it doesn't have [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► the same baseline get criteria of a [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► complicated internal system that can [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► still be grasped by outsiders or it [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► doesn't have the same you know [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► entry-level code phrases or or knowledge [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► that that people exchange to figure out [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► who's in and who's not [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► I basically want to have some things are [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► just never going to be key no matter [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► your level of engagement is 22 yeah well [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► this is the same twilight is a shallow [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► book series and i'll agree [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► how's that just think this statement is [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► there any world building and then [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► writing like you know a trashy teenage [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► romance vampire book [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► yeah there's only you can only dig so [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► deep that you hit the bottom of the [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► things right and so that if this depth [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► then you can get into it so don't bring [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► ski career away maybe I mean just think [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► of it we're talking about like you know [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► if you are the star trek casual start [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► water or the star trek geek sports is [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► the best example because everybody some [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► kind of sports fan like it just vaguely [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► Oh pick a team from your hometown I'm a [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► Red Sox fan or whatever but that goes so [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► deep in terms of like can you name the [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► RAS of the of the last 27 starting [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► pictures of your favorite team people [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► can rattle that like that rabbit hole [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► goes way down farther than you know [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► Perry potter father even talking [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► anything like that because sports has [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► been around forever in there so much to [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► know I don't know about to further the [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► dumb and Tolkien actually well you do [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► that said that hold still pretty forward [TS]

00:40:15 ◼   ► to think about how many years have you [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► been playing baseball in this country [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► and how many stats there are in every [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► single one of those players and [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► screaming like a management moves and [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► trades and just like there's just [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► there's just too many numbers on it so [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► much it's not just the numbers to John [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► it with baseball you've got the there's [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► like the society for american baseball [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► research and there's this group called [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► retro see retro sheet and they actually [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► do things like pull out the microfilm [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► from newspapers from the eighteen [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► hundreds and and piece together [TS]

00:40:42 ◼   ► play-by-play of games that didn't have [TS]

00:40:46 ◼   ► modern box scores and everything so it's [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► so it's yeah you can't just make stuff [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► up they have to go off reality talking [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► at least could do world-building any [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► just make stuff like they they're saying [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► we've got hundreds of years of actual [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► history of every single out and every [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► single game and every single player and [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► what they did and what you can know [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► about them in the drama's between the [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► teams and moving teams from states [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► there's no fanfic and baseball they [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► realize fantasy baseball you know this [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► no I want to grab these people from this [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► team and put the Great's of every error [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► combined but you know there was no [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► designated hitter but the pictures are [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► allowed to use tools that makes it that [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► makes a really great point because while [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► I've been sitting here detailing off [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► ways which I was an incredibly geeky [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► person in high school which I'm sure [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► comes as no surprise to anybody [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► one of the other things that I did in [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► high school was I was in a dice baseball [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► league and we played we have a league we [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► have players it was based on a game [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► called sports illustrated baseball [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► but it was all you had little player [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► cards and you had died so i didn't have [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► dnd but I had fake baseball and we would [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► play at lunchtime and we will play [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► baseball games and so that was a sports [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► geeky thing but if you took the sports [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► part out of it why couldn't it have been [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► does the Dragons except i was Babe Ruth [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► instead of you know paladin with my plus [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► 2 sword now you'll find that the group [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► the rule set is very flexible you can [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► apply it to baseball easily excellent [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► driver to make a saving throw to catch [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► the the line drive [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► I'm sure someone has made a role-playing [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► game based on baseball collectible card [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► game it's true [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► google google it but if I google it [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► patton oswalt will be mad at me all the [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► potential baseball cards of course [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► you've cracked the otaku how dare you [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► break into their perfect seal world [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► yeah I don't know I I can come back that [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► I know how seriously i can take any of [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► that because 50-percent through the [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► article goes off into just a comedy [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► routine [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► yes so happy so can you take the first [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► part seriously at all it's almost like [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► just like this elaborate setup you know [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► I think that was an interesting question [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► even if he's not entirely taking it [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► seriously right i mean that the i was [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► fascinated by the idea that you know our [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► our our geeky things geeky because [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► nobody cares about them you know or not [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► and it hasn't been as the internet [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► ruined being a geek which I don't think [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► is true but i think it's an interesting [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► question the whole article can see it [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► could be summed up with get off my lawn [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► right you did anybody has any key didn't [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► commit to that it's more like a troll [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► it's like make something that I know [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► will get people riled up because i [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► myself don't agree with it and then [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► continue on to my comedy routine its its [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► its form like a pretty classic internet [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► troll anywhere i just don't get the [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► feeling that he believes any of it but [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► he says ridiculous controversial things [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► that will get people riled up and then [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► just never minus the comedy routine so [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► John zombie spaceship or wasteland [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► yeah that is my question here we have to [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► go around the room I you know you should [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► know which one I am apocalypse [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► understand so you're on the team that [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► did the territory of the pyro everyone [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► but me most is have you read the road [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► speaking of mainstream posted it could [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► be argued as being shandra the road is a [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► great great book it dark [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► whoo boy it but I love it but you know [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► that's a mainstream that was an open [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► book club selection book that is in it [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► you cannot say that it's not you know [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► science fiction essentially writer or [TS]

00:43:51 ◼   ► of that kind of thing right now it could [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► have used some quote characters i [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► thought well Cormac McCarthy rights in [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► the way that he writes he doesn't know [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► comment that got an open little club [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► because they don't dwell on the science [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► fiction topic and it's more of a [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► character study and that stuff is this [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► background so it gets wise people is [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► people radar because they're not [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► interested in what happened to the world [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► where is the sci-fi fan like if you want [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► to tell me about the world now i will [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► accept the chapter of exposition but it [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► never comes [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► if I was ok with I mean I i love that it [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► was just in a different world are you [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► know I like to understanding that we [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► have a high tolerance for that type of [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► thing whereas over the book club who [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► just wants to you know see the wrenching [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► human drama happens you know Dan more'n [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► because we have to mention him even if [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► he has another podcast he's written two [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► books of a I think trilogy hopefully [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► Oprah fanfiction that our witness that [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► are open fanfic city has gonna admit the [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► restaurant the post-apocalyptic [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► landscape yeah it's over and the [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► post-apocalypse tears are real future [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► don't kid yourself that's right it's [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► Oprah why we overthrow Oprah and create [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► the apocalypse that's how that happens [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► but no dance written a couple novels [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► that are in an apocalyptic wasteland so [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► you should heat you see you feel well [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► he'll let you look at him [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► although being hypocritical you might [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► you might be afraid I've asked a few [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► times he doesn't want ah ok fair enough [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► just for you Scott yeah there's a couple [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► people but yeah yeah I feel honored that [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► saw zombie spaceship wasteland Scott did [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► you just call me Zod me I mean before I [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► i think it's obviously i am a spaceship [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► you are a spaceship [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► I have a spaceship come aboard the [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► feeling I was gonna put you on an [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► apocalypse after all your tales of anti [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► social gaming behavior with geeks but [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► maybe that's just one aspect of your [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► life that I am I am only that mean when [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► I am Adi app or a player I guess play or [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► doing anything in my life [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► really it's a spaceship spaceship [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► faraway places and adventures on world's [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► not before seeing i guess i don't know i [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► don't even know if I am I think I'm [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► against this classification is what i'm [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► trying to say well i think i need to [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► have a better definition says we heard [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► what the the spaceship one was [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► apocalypse when I just guessed that is [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► that you want to run instead [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► it's closed society has broken down the [TS]

00:46:07 ◼   ► after scape has happened and your job is [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► to run the landscape avoiding the [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► avoiding the bands of people who want [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► petrol and empty house last how is that [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► not zombie go [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► how is that different from zombie I [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► believe zombie is that everybody else is [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► a zombie and it's you versus nature [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► whereas apocalypse is there's nothing [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► you're on your own you it's it's it's [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► it's you looking around at the broken [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► carcass of society and laughing [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► maniacally to yourself as you master it [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► oh that was that was my take so at least [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► a job [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► zombie spaceship or wasteland well I you [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► know I've actually thought about this [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► question since reading the original [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► essay and I was the kid who really loved [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► the mist mixed-up files of basil leaf [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► miss Battley frankweiler because of the [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► fantasy of living in a museum like when [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► I was little I used to fantasize that [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► someday I come all ye everybody out my [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► can live in the Smithsonian and then i [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► will admit the stand is beach reading [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► because I kind of love with a plague in [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► the world empties out we'll see what [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► happens when an apocalypse person with [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► me [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► definitely because the stand was my [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► first favorite book [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► oh my god I love that book still um but [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► I have to admit there's actually also [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► something tremendously appealing about [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► the whole spaceship I've stopped my [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► little vessel and i'm off in search of [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► new adventures Astrodome [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► yes so step one is just a spaceship it [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► slammer [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► that's right it's a broken spaceship as [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► cheesy as it sounds as cheesy as it [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► sounds I think having a baby may have [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► actually shifted me from the the [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► wasteland metaphor over to the spaceship [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► metaphor possible because I feel better [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► about putting a baby on a spaceship than [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► i do strapping her to my back and movie [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► across the wasteland she could end up a [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► Superman you know that's what happens [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► when you put a baby on a spaceship [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► anything can happen [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► that's true so Jason Jason are you a [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► zombie a spaceship or whatever the other [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► one was we always manage to police i [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► want i think i'm on the spaceship I i [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► I'm on the spaceship like i said is that [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► a Zeppelin is just a spaceship that [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► hasn't reached orbit yet but definitely [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► the I would i wrote a piece for the late [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► great website TV that we used to do [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► about [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► about Star Gate when it first came on [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► and that that's a franchise that as many [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► do degraded over time but one of the [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► class stargate universe one of it one of [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► the things I was a stargate universe is [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► better than the other spin-off but and [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► john scalzi was involved and I like his [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► book so I charitable toward it but um uh [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► huh but the original stargate what I [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► loved about it was something that I felt [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► like even start record lost after they [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► built up too much of the universe and [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► you weren't out on the fringes anymore [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► which was with stargate just had that [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► barest of and there's no spaceship by [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► the way but still it had that idea that [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► they turn this device on and you took a [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► step through it and you're on another [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► planet and you didn't know what [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► adventure way to do there and you've [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► never been there before and I that is [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► tremendously appealing that was the [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► thing you know that show ended up being [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► there's a conspiracy and a government [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► bureaucracy and all these just things [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► that just destroy they did get a [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► spaceship at one point just terrible but [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► but when it was the purity of just you [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► know we've got a gadget that will let us [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► step through to other planets and we'll [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► have adventures there i love that that [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► that kind of pure concept and anything [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► that includes MacGyver house but not [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► sliders and MacGyver yes and when it had [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► over sliders and also here's the here's [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► another thing that was great about the [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► slightest well-shot sliders cheesier [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► than Stargate my wife loves Stargate and [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► i've only seen one episode of stargate [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► and I thought it was awful but when told [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► that i saw a bad episode so it's i would [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► say that at least half of them are awful [TS]

00:49:43 ◼   ► because the show lasted like ten years [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► and only the first five were really any [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► good i saw where they traveled back to [TS]

00:49:48 ◼   ► the sixties or something and yeah future [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► podcast top equation talking about sighs [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► sci-fi actors and why some actors are [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► permanently left in in the sci-fi [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► circuit yellow these names yeah well [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► have been speaking of stargate because [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► you ended up with the characters from [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► the actress from farscape first game [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► against a woman show and bed router and [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► claudia black both ended up on Stargate [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► and I felt like really you know Brett [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► been prouder I thought he was a really [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► good leading man and he knew kind of [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► never made aware as you have nathan [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► fillion got out of the ghetto and is now [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► oh I castle [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► yeah or or add involved one who's going [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► on [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► get out his shows right castles you love [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► cast literature you think he got out of [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► a ghetto I think he would her into all [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► the worse getting a little worse [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► neighborhood would you rather be on a [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► hit sci-fi show with a cult following or [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► a like c-grade nobody watches it [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► it's not a nobody or no i don't watch [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► Cassie's on the velvet here its [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► development often John he's castle heaps [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► castles got ratings that keeps getting [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► renewed and you know what that means [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► that means nathan fillion is good [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► pretty soon he's gonna have enough money [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► to buy the rights to find it wasn't [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► receiving over loves procedures [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► yeah well Adam Baldwin sort of bounced [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► in and out because you know people were [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► like oh it's animal mother and then he [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► was in firefly in there he's on shop [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► which is kind of geeky show but it's a [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► big step down compared those characters [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► that make sense before compare these two [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► characters which is the better character [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► if you were an actor would you be [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► happier playing Jane or playing whatever [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► the heck that guy seemed as on Chuck [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► Casey I'm Casey see this is hard because [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► they get and I feel like this is geek [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► heresy we're getting off the podcast i'm [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► not a huge firefly fans so it's hard by [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► us either last is over his pocket but [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► two out of four people agree [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► fire/5 not so good if oh I'm wounded [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► Firefly is not bet that by good I've [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► always suspected that if they're like a [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► league of lady geek side be kicked out [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► just because I've never really connected [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► with any weed and stuff but you know [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► it's about it'sit's i would also be [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► kicked out of the leading league of lady [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► cakes for the same reason for just that [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► reason just that really the reason [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► picture [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► yeah because there's this new i see are [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► you guys aware that there's a site [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► called the Mary Sue that just launched [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► its supposed to be a celebration of [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► women and geeks and geeky lady culture i [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► have not heard about yeah it's called [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► it's called the Mary Sue and and this it [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► actually ties into this topic because I [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► get the sense it's trying very hard in a [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► way yeah but I think there's something [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► to the case that there is a sort of new [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► generation of of women i mean i alluded [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► to that point with doctor who i've [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► introduced lots of women friends of mine [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► to the new doctor who and they've [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► generally loved it and it's a lot looked [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► a lot of the same people who love Buffy [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► and and you know part of that is my just [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► shocked that there [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► are women watching Jean Run shows [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► because of course when I was in high [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► school we hello girls anywhere LOL yeah [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► so but I so I think there is something [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► to that in fact the point now where I [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► think there is a probably a whole [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► subculture of of woman oriented geeky [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► stuff and and knowing you Lisa I'm not [TS]

00:52:58 ◼   ► surprised that you might kind of lifts [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► an eyebrow at some of that stuff [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► probably play and it i think it's [TS]

00:53:05 ◼   ► probably just maybe a function of age [TS]

00:53:07 ◼   ► get off my lawn [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► if what is so great about everybody's [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► logs that they don't want people if they [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► are our lawns not you're so get off [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► we've mastered the 1i know where every I [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► know the history of every kind of blade [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► of grass cuts on it I think I think I [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► think the objection i have to too [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► self-consciously positioning lady [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► cassandra is I is it's using jet it's [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► using jet genders a differentiator and [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► the reason I object to that is because [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► you're instantly setting it up where if [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► a not be one-half there they're working [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► in opposition to each other so that [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► implies one is better than the other [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► either by virtue of exclusion by virtue [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► of the other I mean it goes back to [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► simone de beauvoir and gender theory and [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► all that and i just have to raise the [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► question why bother gendering your [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► nerves as it were [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► well I'm have scott wants to watch [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► sanctuary on the SyFy channel [TS]

00:54:01 ◼   ► why should it matter that he's a guy [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► yeah yeah because I have to be honest [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► growing up with that one of the only [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► ways i talk to boys growing up to be [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► honest was was because we could talk [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► about things like Dungeons and Dragons [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► or the science fiction books were [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► already or comic books or things like [TS]

00:54:15 ◼   ► that um that was that was common ground [TS]

00:54:19 ◼   ► where I felt comfortable discussing it [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► with him and I would hate to think of [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► this stuff being you know thrown into a [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► gender get out one way or another and it [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► honestly is a five-year-old getting into [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► Star Blazers in battlestar galactica [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► which like air back-to-back on some TV [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► I'll start coming back i think it's [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► going to be on TV again we're going back [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► on TV I hope so I would love to i [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► haven't seen that in years i would love [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► to see how it matches up but it never [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► will never look bored yeah you know it [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► never occurred to me at five that I [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► wasn't supposed to like these shows [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► about her [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► space or or that they were boys or girls [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► shows they were simply think that I was [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► interested in and you kind of [TS]

00:54:56 ◼   ► uncomfortable with attaching gender [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► labels to it because i feel like you [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► know you're trying you're sticking [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► people in a box or yourself or if you're [TS]

00:55:03 ◼   ► like all this asset for girl geeks what [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► that suggests is that it's not normal to [TS]