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The Incomparable

34: The Wrath of James Caan

 

00:00:07   the incomparable part test 234 april [TS]

00:00:14   we are back on the incomparable i am [TS]

00:00:17   jason l your host our topic today is [TS]

00:00:20   from page to screen we're going to talk [TS]

00:00:23   about books being made into movies or TV [TS]

00:00:26   shows the good examples if there are [TS]

00:00:29   such things [TS]

00:00:30   the terrible examples there are plenty [TS]

00:00:32   of those and joining me today to discuss [TS]

00:00:36   this we have Dan Morgan hi Dan jason [TS]

00:00:40   scott McNulty hello hello and John [TS]

00:00:44   siracusa good evening good evening [TS]

00:00:48   so this was a good idea brought up [TS]

00:00:50   actually by Scott McNulty so full credit [TS]

00:00:52   to him with the game of thrones having [TS]

00:00:55   just premiered on HBO TV series based on [TS]

00:00:59   a series of novels by george RR martin [TS]

00:01:02   and we're going to talk about that [TS]

00:01:03   series probably a couple of times in the [TS]

00:01:06   next couple of months but that's not [TS]

00:01:08   really as much the topic of tonight's [TS]

00:01:10   incomparable as it is a jumping-off [TS]

00:01:14   point now many of us I think have read [TS]

00:01:17   the novel game of thrones and i think [TS]

00:01:19   it's interesting that even after one [TS]

00:01:21   episode if you've seen it it's a very [TS]

00:01:24   faithful retailing and actually i didn't [TS]

00:01:26   get the heebie-jeebies from it like I i [TS]

00:01:28   have with some other adaptations as [TS]

00:01:31   anybody else just really quickly as [TS]

00:01:33   anybody else seen the first episode of [TS]

00:01:34   Game of Thrones haven't actually watched [TS]

00:01:37   you guys suck okay i don't watch it John [TS]

00:01:41   watched him i didn't have read the books [TS]

00:01:43   though so I'm coming into it ah [TS]

00:01:44   interesting though I read the books and [TS]

00:01:47   I watched oh yeah what [TS]

00:01:48   so what did you think did it do the same [TS]

00:01:50   faithful to faithful not faithful enough [TS]

00:01:52   I i did not get any heebie-jeebies good [TS]

00:01:55   just kind of you and me behind that I [TS]

00:01:59   thought was pretty faithful i mean i [TS]

00:02:00   read the books [TS]

00:02:01   long long ago but it's it reminded me of [TS]

00:02:05   what was happening in the book so that [TS]

00:02:08   seems good [TS]

00:02:09   I mean it with what it's an HBO series [TS]

00:02:10   so I think that kind of front-loaded [TS]

00:02:13   some more sex than was perhaps in the [TS]

00:02:15   first the beginning of the books to get [TS]

00:02:18   people interested in the fantasy show [TS]

00:02:20   but other than that yeah you know I [TS]

00:02:23   think I think it was faithful I I think [TS]

00:02:25   there's a lot of downloading to be done [TS]

00:02:27   there [TS]

00:02:28   about this world and i can understand [TS]

00:02:30   that would be kind of hard to get it all [TS]

00:02:31   I mean John you you haven't read the [TS]

00:02:34   book but you watched it was it didn't [TS]

00:02:36   seem like you could you could follow it [TS]

00:02:38   or was it sort of like wow without a map [TS]

00:02:41   i have no idea what's going on here [TS]

00:02:42   it was okay for our first episode III [TS]

00:02:45   didn't feel like it was racing away from [TS]

00:02:46   my understanding i was but they didn't [TS]

00:02:49   spend too much time dwelling on things [TS]

00:02:51   but they spent enough time that you [TS]

00:02:54   understood the players were and and you [TS]

00:02:56   know how the pieces are arranged on the [TS]

00:02:57   board sort of so i think it struck a [TS]

00:02:59   good balance in terms of exposition and [TS]

00:03:01   and drama [TS]

00:03:03   yeah I will worry bicep I season three [TS]

00:03:05   or four lost Rajas too many characters I [TS]

00:03:08   i think that i would be worried normally [TS]

00:03:10   about about something like that having [TS]

00:03:12   read the book I'd watch that first step [TS]

00:03:13   of soda say wow this is dense are people [TS]

00:03:16   going to get this but you know it's no [TS]

00:03:18   more dense than the wire [TS]

00:03:19   really yeah i mean there's there's [TS]

00:03:20   plenty of TV shows that are out there [TS]

00:03:22   and HBO is obviously a great example of [TS]

00:03:24   org or something like madmen for example [TS]

00:03:26   is just like where there's a lot of [TS]

00:03:28   players but people are people are pretty [TS]

00:03:30   good at keeping those things straight [TS]

00:03:31   especially if they do as they appear to [TS]

00:03:33   have done here such a good job with [TS]

00:03:34   casting to the point of you know really [TS]

00:03:37   finding people who look like these [TS]

00:03:38   characters and are different enough so [TS]

00:03:40   it doesn't look like it and Martin's [TS]

00:03:41   books have a wide enough range of [TS]

00:03:43   characters that it's not like oh it's [TS]

00:03:45   another guy that I can't tell from any [TS]

00:03:48   of the other guys so in talking about [TS]

00:03:50   adaptations let's let's start with once [TS]

00:03:53   we think that are good and to to talk [TS]

00:03:55   about that i'm going to go to answer [TS]

00:03:58   because I think of nobody who is more [TS]

00:03:59   positive and and trying to illuminate [TS]

00:04:03   what's good in the world than john john [TS]

00:04:05   g houses some suggestions for good [TS]

00:04:08   adaptations i do I thought working some [TS]

00:04:11   negative stuff too because my good self [TS]

00:04:13   my first one is dune and this is a movie [TS]

00:04:18   that wasn't from the eighties yes and I [TS]

00:04:20   was long ago actually that was five I [TS]

00:04:22   believe yeah it was David Lynch was very [TS]

00:04:25   short very strange director who has a [TS]

00:04:27   lot of character released within a [TS]

00:04:30   couple weeks of one of the ones i'm [TS]

00:04:31   going to talk about [TS]

00:04:32   strangely enough anyway and your image [TS]

00:04:34   and sting [TS]

00:04:35   yes yes so and Kyle make sure to [TS]

00:04:41   I'm not gonna hold up doing as like a a [TS]

00:04:43   a great movie about this one thing you [TS]

00:04:46   can say about for doing is that it's [TS]

00:04:47   interesting there's very little and a [TS]

00:04:50   movie that is expected or boring even [TS]

00:04:53   though it is a sci-fi movie so [TS]

00:04:54   everything about it is kind of weird [TS]

00:04:56   like it should be in a David Lynch movie [TS]

00:04:57   the character is a weird the [TS]

00:04:59   performances are weird the casting is [TS]

00:05:01   weird with that this thing doing there [TS]

00:05:03   the set design everything about it is [TS]

00:05:05   weird now if you compare it to the book [TS]

00:05:07   i know a lot of people really love the [TS]

00:05:08   doing book but I didn't dislike I guess [TS]

00:05:12   I kind of did dislike the notebook is it [TS]

00:05:13   i just don't like Frank Herbert is a [TS]

00:05:15   writer I just think he's boring and the [TS]

00:05:18   book he was so wrapped up talk about [TS]

00:05:20   planting intriguing idea that's our own [TS]

00:05:22   there i think that's unfair because [TS]

00:05:23   after the first 250 pages dude picks up [TS]

00:05:28   oh oh oh no you're right it'sit's really [TS]

00:05:34   boring and then there's some action but [TS]

00:05:36   but seriously i looked and it was it's [TS]

00:05:38   about 250 pages of just death before you [TS]

00:05:40   get there [TS]

00:05:41   yeah and the thing about it is he's got [TS]

00:05:44   this very interesting world but [TS]

00:05:45   obviously david lynch didn't make up the [TS]

00:05:47   source material so that the world that [TS]

00:05:48   Frank Harper made up and doing is very [TS]

00:05:50   interesting and has lots of cool things [TS]

00:05:52   in it [TS]

00:05:53   none of which he describes because he's [TS]

00:05:55   more interested in describing the sort [TS]

00:05:57   of political intrigue and he is [TS]

00:05:59   describing any of the very interesting [TS]

00:06:01   aspects of the society or technology i [TS]

00:06:03   which is why when David Lynch made the [TS]

00:06:05   movie he could make the characters the [TS]

00:06:08   settings the vehicles look like whatever [TS]

00:06:10   the heck he wanted other than the fact [TS]

00:06:11   that sandwich was probably look like [TS]

00:06:12   worms everything else was up for grabs [TS]

00:06:15   so he said fine you're not going to [TS]

00:06:16   describe anything your book i'm going to [TS]

00:06:17   make the ship's look like gigantic art [TS]

00:06:19   deco you know bed headboards or [TS]

00:06:22   something flying through the air and i'm [TS]

00:06:23   going to make the navigators look like [TS]

00:06:24   giant floating slug things and you know [TS]

00:06:26   he did just whatever that he wanted i [TS]

00:06:28   think that that freedom of frank herbert [TS]

00:06:30   not describing anything and not really [TS]

00:06:32   being a writer's writer and david lynch [TS]

00:06:34   being absolutely crazy and a director's [TS]

00:06:36   director produced this wonderful strange [TS]

00:06:39   movie that i think is better than the [TS]

00:06:41   book and most of the ways that movie can [TS]

00:06:43   be better than the book I mean obviously [TS]

00:06:44   doesn't really hold together as a movie [TS]

00:06:46   and it's kind of nonsensical and then it [TS]

00:06:48   deviates from the book in many important [TS]

00:06:50   ways in terms of you know that the world [TS]

00:06:53   and then and that the magic powers in [TS]

00:06:54   the plot but i but i'm watching I'm like [TS]

00:06:56   I don't care go ahead David Lynch show [TS]

00:06:58   me what you've got and I just just get a [TS]

00:07:00   good vibe out of it home i thought [TS]

00:07:01   that's one of the best examples of book [TS]

00:07:03   that was like okay it's alright it's got [TS]

00:07:05   some crazy things about and frank [TS]

00:07:07   herbert's kind of a boring writer if you [TS]

00:07:09   put that kind of booked into the hands [TS]

00:07:11   of a very yeah talented quirky director [TS]

00:07:15   you get an interesting movie did you see [TS]

00:07:17   the sci-fi miniseries of doom [TS]

00:07:19   unfortunately thanks Harvey I don't know [TS]

00:07:23   we were going to TV if I had to go [TS]

00:07:24   things I was doing goes to a movie you [TS]

00:07:26   get this very interesting movie from [TS]

00:07:27   david lynch then it goes to TV [TS]

00:07:28   miniseries and if you're a big fan of [TS]

00:07:30   the book you're like all finally [TS]

00:07:31   miniseries I give the room the books [TS]

00:07:33   room to breathe but you can see again [TS]

00:07:36   because there's no real descriptions of [TS]

00:07:38   stuff in the book you can do anything [TS]

00:07:39   you want and the TV series what they did [TS]

00:07:41   was made [TS]

00:07:41   things not very interesting and kind of [TS]

00:07:44   ugly and the reduction sort of felt like [TS]

00:07:46   you know of what you'd expect from a [TS]

00:07:48   sci-fi channel show right it was sort of [TS]

00:07:49   like the sci-fi channel version of doing [TS]

00:07:51   which is exactly what it was and it [TS]

00:07:53   looked like that it felt like that i [TS]

00:07:54   don't think it was that Latin it [TS]

00:07:56   it lived in the shadow of the David [TS]

00:07:57   Lynch 10 because he had such a defining [TS]

00:07:59   vision of what all this stuff is like I [TS]

00:08:01   think that maybe was more entertaining [TS]

00:08:02   but I it certainly didn't attempt to do [TS]

00:08:06   anything interesting [TS]

00:08:07   now yeah I don't wanna fight i mean i [TS]

00:08:10   don't think it was terrible as far as [TS]

00:08:12   sci-fi series go but it's really didn't [TS]

00:08:15   stick with me and it took Scott's point [TS]

00:08:17   the sequel was atrocious [TS]

00:08:19   so yeah I know source material is [TS]

00:08:21   atrocious I don't have enough to stop [TS]

00:08:23   reading the source material for that do [TS]

00:08:24   not that after reading one Frank Herbert [TS]

00:08:26   book i was like he had enough of this [TS]

00:08:27   guy so my second one should i do my [TS]

00:08:32   second year ago somebody else not go for [TS]

00:08:34   it [TS]

00:08:34   ok so my second one this is an easy one [TS]

00:08:36   but what most people don't think of but [TS]

00:08:38   i do of course but such a big Stephen [TS]

00:08:40   King fan is Rita Hayworth and the [TS]

00:08:41   shawshank redemption and I think this is [TS]

00:08:43   a perfect example because so many of [TS]

00:08:45   Stephen King's things have been made [TS]

00:08:49   into movies and so many of the movies [TS]

00:08:50   have been so terrible [TS]

00:08:52   now here's an example that I think [TS]

00:08:54   pretty much everyone can agree it's a [TS]

00:08:55   fantastic movie and the reason it's a [TS]

00:08:57   fantastic movie is a few things one [TS]

00:08:59   stephen king is an amazing storyteller [TS]

00:09:01   not an amazing writer but an amazing [TS]

00:09:02   storyteller and two it's a short story [TS]

00:09:05   it's not a novel so pretty much [TS]

00:09:07   everything he put on the page you have [TS]

00:09:08   room for a 22 and a half hour movie so [TS]

00:09:11   you get to take this story by a great [TS]

00:09:14   storyteller and play it out exactly as [TS]

00:09:17   it is in the book without having to drop [TS]

00:09:18   anything without having to crazy edits [TS]

00:09:20   and then the final thing is there's [TS]

00:09:21   nothing supernatural in this story every [TS]

00:09:23   time the supernatural stuff in a stephen [TS]

00:09:25   king book it kind of goes off the rails [TS]

00:09:28   when they try to fill it because either [TS]

00:09:29   it's hokey and it only works when you [TS]

00:09:30   write it but we try to film it looks [TS]

00:09:32   ridiculous or just they don't know how [TS]

00:09:34   to film with the right way or it's [TS]

00:09:36   supposed to be scary it just looks dumb [TS]

00:09:37   you know it's very difficult to do you [TS]

00:09:39   know supernatural horror very well in [TS]

00:09:42   film it's easier to do it in a book [TS]

00:09:43   where you're writing about it [TS]

00:09:45   so this this had no supernatural stuff [TS]

00:09:47   so they just ghosts from a straight [TS]

00:09:48   story about people with no magic and [TS]

00:09:50   you know a couple hundred pages and they [TS]

00:09:52   just put direct the film and give it a [TS]

00:09:54   good cast in a good director and makes [TS]

00:09:56   an excellent movie you know another [TS]

00:09:58   chance to John's point I think he makes [TS]

00:10:01   a really good point because I thought [TS]

00:10:03   about this in the past the short stories [TS]

00:10:05   and movies are actually in some ways a [TS]

00:10:06   lot I feel like closer in in art form [TS]

00:10:09   than novels and movies and that's [TS]

00:10:12   because short stories are so economical [TS]

00:10:14   there's such a it so there's a unity [TS]

00:10:16   right of of point like it's very focused [TS]

00:10:19   it'sit's doesn't have a lot of [TS]

00:10:20   extraneous tangents you don't usually [TS]

00:10:22   have like a dude you know tons of [TS]

00:10:24   characters if there's something very [TS]

00:10:26   focused about it whereas in a novel you [TS]

00:10:28   know I feel like in some ways novels are [TS]

00:10:30   better adapted to things like TV series [TS]

00:10:32   as you're doing that came two thrones [TS]

00:10:33   because they give you a little time to [TS]

00:10:34   delve into the side plots and you know [TS]

00:10:37   characters with their own things going [TS]

00:10:39   on there's a little more room to work on [TS]

00:10:41   something like that then there is to [TS]

00:10:43   condense into a knot into a movie in [TS]

00:10:44   which you know it's two hours two and a [TS]

00:10:46   half hours you've got to take stuff out [TS]

00:10:47   you gotta throw out an entire train [TS]

00:10:50   these things that are the takeaway from [TS]

00:10:51   the main plot of the movie and stuff [TS]

00:10:52   like that so I think there is something [TS]

00:10:54   very interesting about adapting a short [TS]

00:10:56   story to movie as opposed to a novel it [TS]

00:10:59   really depends on the author to because [TS]

00:11:00   I mean even though this is a short story [TS]

00:11:02   it's not like a you know 20 pager like [TS]

00:11:04   some people short stories it's a Steven [TS]

00:11:06   articles in nova or whatever button and [TS]

00:11:08   Stephen King world short as you know 200 [TS]

00:11:10   pages 250 pages and that's just the [TS]

00:11:12   right length for a movie i probably [TS]

00:11:14   can't get away with going doing ten [TS]

00:11:16   fifteen thirty pager into into a [TS]

00:11:19   feature-length movie or for most longer [TS]

00:11:21   short stories from throw authors that [TS]

00:11:23   tend to produce thousand-page books that [TS]

00:11:25   perfectly in that [TS]

00:11:26   and speaking of thousand-page books that [TS]

00:11:28   is my my final selection here which is [TS]

00:11:31   Lord of the Rings I you pick me first to [TS]

00:11:32   get the ticket before everybody else [TS]

00:11:34   now i'm a big fan of lord of the rings [TS]

00:11:36   books and for many years everyone you [TS]

00:11:38   know help Lord of the Rings up this as a [TS]

00:11:40   series of books they're basically [TS]

00:11:42   unfilmable because they just they're [TS]

00:11:44   just too much in them too many settings [TS]

00:11:46   too much magic stuff too expensive but [TS]

00:11:48   through the magic of computer technology [TS]

00:11:51   suddenly the unfilmable became film [TS]

00:11:52   alone are within our lifetime and they [TS]

00:11:54   gave it to a director who dedicated his [TS]

00:11:56   you know many years of his life to it [TS]

00:11:59   and they got actors who were similarly [TS]

00:12:00   able to dedicate themselves [TS]

00:12:02   animated series of movies out of it and [TS]

00:12:04   they weren't terrible which is quite a [TS]

00:12:07   feat considering like all the Lord of [TS]

00:12:09   the Rings fans like all please don't [TS]

00:12:10   feel miserable just be horrible you'll [TS]

00:12:12   just be destroying these books I to make [TS]

00:12:14   them not terrible i think what they had [TS]

00:12:16   to do is decide you know this is a giant [TS]

00:12:19   1,500 pages for the text or whatever [TS]

00:12:21   we're gonna have to pick some part of it [TS]

00:12:23   to concentrate on the movies and they [TS]

00:12:24   picked to concentrate on the stuff that [TS]

00:12:26   works well in the movies big epic quest [TS]

00:12:28   battles 12 characters that you follow [TS]

00:12:31   through the whole thing and then [TS]

00:12:32   everything else got cut [TS]

00:12:33   Tom Bombadil cut all the whimsical stuff [TS]

00:12:35   got cut all the you know how about [TS]

00:12:37   family stuff got cut all you know just [TS]

00:12:39   just cut mercilessly remove everything [TS]

00:12:42   that is you know that people love about [TS]

00:12:43   the books but just does not work in the [TS]

00:12:45   movie and dedicate themselves fully to [TS]

00:12:47   the epic quest and sam and frodo and [TS]

00:12:49   doing the whole story on there are lots [TS]

00:12:52   of problems with those movies and some [TS]

00:12:53   of the choices I made [TS]

00:12:55   I don't really agree with if we ever do [TS]

00:12:56   a lot of the Rings episode we can talk [TS]

00:12:57   about them but to their credit i think [TS]

00:13:00   they made probably the best movie you [TS]

00:13:04   could have made especially in a first [TS]

00:13:06   attempt at making movies of these things [TS]

00:13:07   maybe if I live to be a ripe old age of [TS]

00:13:09   95 some will try to refill these movies [TS]

00:13:11   and have a different take and do it [TS]

00:13:13   better so that those are good movies to [TS]

00:13:14   the point where my wife said I've never [TS]

00:13:17   read the book because I everything time [TS]

00:13:19   you describe it to me I'm terrified and [TS]

00:13:21   I like the movies so that's good enough [TS]

00:13:23   i don't need anymore [TS]

00:13:25   that's enough we have the expanded [TS]

00:13:26   additions and although this goes to the [TS]

00:13:28   point that there's more story there it's [TS]

00:13:30   a long book 2 or series books if you [TS]

00:13:32   want to be with that way it so they did [TS]

00:13:35   three movies and in fact there's a tit [TS]

00:13:37   like a 10-hour cut of the framing tables [TS]

00:13:39   too and we want we actually do that [TS]

00:13:41   every every Christmas we sort of do a [TS]

00:13:43   little Lord of the Rings festival we I [TS]

00:13:45   think we didn't do last year but but I'm [TS]

00:13:47   we try to do it every holiday for six [TS]

00:13:50   nights basically it's a disco night and [TS]

00:13:52   and you make your own little mini series [TS]

00:13:53   basically and it's great because those [TS]

00:13:55   are a really really fun and well well [TS]

00:13:58   made movies and I got a very different [TS]

00:14:00   feeling watching the movies and do [TS]

00:14:02   reading the book so much so that it [TS]

00:14:04   they're just they're barely related to [TS]

00:14:06   my mind because when i read the books [TS]

00:14:07   i'm thinking of like returning to a [TS]

00:14:10   world and then getting into all that [TS]

00:14:12   sort of you know [TS]

00:14:13   folklore and then whimsical stuff or [TS]

00:14:16   whatever and the movies are much more [TS]

00:14:17   about an adventure [TS]

00:14:19   alright everyone more thing before we [TS]

00:14:21   move on this is just in general love [TS]

00:14:24   when i was reading a book I guess couple [TS]

00:14:26   years ago I was thinking about things [TS]

00:14:29   that you can do in books that you can't [TS]

00:14:30   do in movies and then it most people [TS]

00:14:32   don't think about this think about the [TS]

00:14:33   other way things you can do in movies [TS]

00:14:34   that can't be done in books because you [TS]

00:14:36   just got words when you've got pictures [TS]

00:14:37   you can do so much more [TS]

00:14:38   so I was reading a deepness in the sky [TS]

00:14:41   by vernor vinge hope you're doing [TS]

00:14:42   episode on him eventually you will and [TS]

00:14:45   about half of that book is spent on this [TS]

00:14:49   this alien world where the spider aliens [TS]

00:14:51   are and there are characters there that [TS]

00:14:53   you follow their just as important as [TS]

00:14:55   the human characters and these [TS]

00:14:56   characters have a work life and jobs and [TS]

00:14:59   and friends and family and romance and [TS]

00:15:02   as a government and they have you know a [TS]

00:15:03   society and everything down there and [TS]

00:15:06   then not the space you've got the humans [TS]

00:15:08   and it's kind of a split 50-50 between [TS]

00:15:09   these two things parallel storylines and [TS]

00:15:13   then later in the book eventually the [TS]

00:15:15   humans go down onto the planet and they [TS]

00:15:17   meet these elements of the first times [TS]

00:15:19   and it's the first time that you get [TS]

00:15:22   narration from the humans point of view [TS]

00:15:24   of what they see when they see the [TS]

00:15:26   aliens and what they see is just like a [TS]

00:15:28   shiny exoskeleton and like legs [TS]

00:15:30   everywhere and hissing and clicking and [TS]

00:15:32   little letting emotions from their [TS]

00:15:34   eyelids and everything going different [TS]

00:15:36   directions and at that point the book [TS]

00:15:38   you realize that the point of view from [TS]

00:15:42   the spiderlings for the whole rest of [TS]

00:15:44   the book you're everything was being [TS]

00:15:46   translated into human terms for you you [TS]

00:15:48   know they didn't say in it when you when [TS]

00:15:51   they were describing the spider world [TS]

00:15:52   that the spider wave it slant na and [TS]

00:15:54   made this clicking noise around like [TS]

00:15:55   they just they just played out as if [TS]

00:15:57   there were humans and it made you relate [TS]

00:15:59   to them and only when the two things [TS]

00:16:00   come together do you realize how [TS]

00:16:01   incredibly alien these things are how [TS]

00:16:04   different they are from humans even [TS]

00:16:06   though from the spiders perspective [TS]

00:16:08   everything is normal from the human [TS]

00:16:09   perspective that just horrible hideous [TS]

00:16:11   creatures you know and this is this [TS]

00:16:14   moment you can't have a moment like this [TS]

00:16:15   in a movie because either you show the [TS]

00:16:17   spiders from the very beginning as being [TS]

00:16:20   hideous spider aliens who don't speak [TS]

00:16:21   and don't have normal language don't [TS]

00:16:23   have normal gestures and you know it [TS]

00:16:25   you've already doing mid smells or wave [TS]

00:16:27   their tentacles around or whatever and [TS]

00:16:29   tennis whatever or you show them humans [TS]

00:16:32   instead of spiders and then when you [TS]

00:16:34   reveal that there spiders you know then [TS]

00:16:36   that the audience feels like it was a [TS]

00:16:37   cheat you know you could try to use some [TS]

00:16:39   sort of visual device to to say how you [TS]

00:16:41   know you were showing them as humans to [TS]

00:16:43   not put you off of them but really [TS]

00:16:44   they're spiders the whole time and the [TS]

00:16:47   audience would not like that [TS]

00:16:48   so this lack of visuals in the book was [TS]

00:16:51   not going to hide the fact that spiders [TS]

00:16:52   in the book right from the beginning [TS]

00:16:53   they said yeah these are spider aliens [TS]

00:16:55   and they just go on and draw you into [TS]

00:16:56   the lives of these spider aliens the [TS]

00:16:59   fact that there's no pictures constantly [TS]

00:17:01   reminding you that these are spider [TS]

00:17:02   aliens allows the book to do something [TS]

00:17:05   you could never do in the movie because [TS]

00:17:06   it doesn't have any pictures in at home [TS]

00:17:08   and that one particular scene i was the [TS]

00:17:10   first time I realized that there was you [TS]

00:17:12   know something that besides length and [TS]

00:17:15   you detail and stuff that you can do [TS]

00:17:17   just because books are so much longer [TS]

00:17:18   than then the movies that you can do in [TS]

00:17:20   books you actually can't do movies [TS]

00:17:22   because they lack pictures and that was [TS]

00:17:24   my favorite moments of that that book [TS]

00:17:26   there [TS]

00:17:27   yeah and I i do think it is unfilmable a [TS]

00:17:30   good story though [TS]

00:17:31   yeah i mean that's on film over for [TS]

00:17:35   other reasons too but but just for that [TS]

00:17:37   the spider aliens humanity thing just [TS]

00:17:40   would not work i'm screaming there's no [TS]

00:17:42   way to pull it off [TS]

00:17:43   you've got to stop right with that oh no [TS]

00:17:46   it's not gonna happen [TS]

00:17:48   dan do you have a recommendation or two [TS]

00:17:51   of good adaptations i was looking [TS]

00:17:55   casting my sort of eyes over my [TS]

00:17:56   bookshelf as I was sitting here trying [TS]

00:17:58   to think which of these books have been [TS]

00:17:59   made into movies and and some of them [TS]

00:18:00   have actually there are several on my [TS]

00:18:03   bookshelf that are due to be made into [TS]

00:18:05   movies which I'm interested to see but [TS]

00:18:07   most of the ones that I'm coming up with [TS]

00:18:09   are not science fiction or fantasy books [TS]

00:18:11   but like things like mysteries and [TS]

00:18:13   another other sort of genre books and [TS]

00:18:15   and so I feel you know I don't know [TS]

00:18:17   maybe it's a cheap but a one of my one [TS]

00:18:19   of my favorite books by one of my [TS]

00:18:21   favorite authors is the big sleep by [TS]

00:18:24   raymond chandler which is a fantastic [TS]

00:18:26   mystery book circa nineteen forties [TS]

00:18:29   leaving the 39 maybe was written it was [TS]

00:18:33   made into a movie in 46 with Humphrey [TS]

00:18:35   Bogart and Lauren Bacall and it's an [TS]

00:18:38   absolutely fantastic movie of an [TS]

00:18:40   absolute [TS]

00:18:40   a fantastic book and i think it's it's [TS]

00:18:43   hard you'd be hard-pressed to do an [TS]

00:18:46   adaptation maybe that's something [TS]

00:18:47   there's something about that that's very [TS]

00:18:49   much related to the time in which was [TS]

00:18:50   written or filmed but i feel like you [TS]

00:18:52   know it would be hard to do a modern [TS]

00:18:54   adaptation of today or to do it well but [TS]

00:18:57   there's there's something that's a big [TS]

00:18:59   challenge I think in many ways because [TS]

00:19:01   the plot of a of something like a [TS]

00:19:04   Raymond Chandler mystery well you know [TS]

00:19:06   mysteries you often often think of them [TS]

00:19:07   as being related to the plot but I think [TS]

00:19:09   such a big appeal from Chandler is the [TS]

00:19:11   language and you know as much as you can [TS]

00:19:13   translate some of that into dialogue [TS]

00:19:15   there's so much stuff that doesn't get [TS]

00:19:17   me doesn't make that jump like John was [TS]

00:19:19   saying like the you know unless you have [TS]

00:19:21   a voiceover narration which lends a [TS]

00:19:24   whole different quality to your movie as [TS]

00:19:26   you know anybody who's watched three [TS]

00:19:28   different versions of blade runner [TS]

00:19:29   wallet asked me if I may have stopped my [TS]

00:19:31   short story or yeah actually or is that [TS]

00:19:33   an oval exactly what the ball two novel [TS]

00:19:36   i read I've read it Irene yes I've as [TS]

00:19:38   well it seems like a shorter than shot [TS]

00:19:40   at redemption but I mean something like [TS]

00:19:43   that in terms of you know it's hard to [TS]

00:19:45   film something like that relies so much [TS]

00:19:48   on on the pros right it's hard to do a [TS]

00:19:51   great translation of that and yet the [TS]

00:19:53   movie ends up being you know quite [TS]

00:19:55   gripping in its in its own way and so [TS]

00:19:59   that's that's one example of something [TS]

00:20:01   that I that I quite enjoyed I'm trying [TS]

00:20:05   again I'm coming up with all this stuff [TS]

00:20:06   I feel like that that i really like that [TS]

00:20:08   is not did that is sort of out of our [TS]

00:20:10   DIY I've got an honor and my list too so [TS]

00:20:13   don't have that so ok so altar and then [TS]

00:20:15   a couple of adaptations of works by the [TS]

00:20:18   corner with a salon y 0 0 which was we [TS]

00:20:22   can't i can i'm going to 1 i'm going to [TS]

00:20:24   say hi fidelity and we said about a boy [TS]

00:20:26   then because which is also also a good [TS]

00:20:29   movie yes an excellent movie and an [TS]

00:20:31   excellent book yeah and so again [TS]

00:20:33   hornby someone else who's writing is [TS]

00:20:35   such a huge like you know he's got great [TS]

00:20:37   prose absolutely really knows how to [TS]

00:20:39   craft a sentence as hard to make that [TS]

00:20:41   transition to film because you know his [TS]

00:20:45   plots good news characters are good too [TS]

00:20:46   which is what makes the film you know [TS]

00:20:48   about a boy so good you know enjoyable [TS]

00:20:52   yeah but at the same time you you know [TS]

00:20:53   oh there's it's a totally different [TS]

00:20:54   experience reading the book and so i [TS]

00:20:57   think i read the book after i had seen [TS]

00:20:58   the movie and you know there is that as [TS]

00:21:02   you're talking with your wife you know [TS]

00:21:03   there's that the disparities like wow I [TS]

00:21:05   like the movie I mean maybe I like the [TS]

00:21:07   book but you know my just gonna be [TS]

00:21:08   picturing the same characters and yet [TS]

00:21:10   for me it was totally you know totally [TS]

00:21:12   different experience you know [TS]

00:21:14   yes it was a story although it's the [TS]

00:21:17   same story and the same characters it [TS]

00:21:19   feels like something it feels like a [TS]

00:21:23   different telling of the story of how [TS]

00:21:25   well they understand there are also some [TS]

00:21:26   changes in the in the movement from from [TS]

00:21:29   the book and likewise high-fidelity I [TS]

00:21:30   mean first off and set in Chicago [TS]

00:21:32   instead of in London and they're all [TS]

00:21:34   there are other things about it that are [TS]

00:21:35   very different but in the same in the [TS]

00:21:38   same way i think both of those movies [TS]

00:21:39   have the have a sort of spirit of the [TS]

00:21:42   book and the heart of the book is is [TS]

00:21:44   where it should be and as a result they [TS]

00:21:46   both work even though i'm a huge fan of [TS]

00:21:49   his work and of those books and I I [TS]

00:21:51   didn't feel offended by the changes they [TS]

00:21:54   made because I felt like they were they [TS]

00:21:55   were smart changes made for adapting it [TS]

00:21:58   to a different medium which i Ken saying [TS]

00:22:00   that they respect the spirit i think is [TS]

00:22:02   really important like they do they [TS]

00:22:03   somehow fit totally with with what he's [TS]

00:22:06   the story he's generally tell and i [TS]

00:22:07   would love to see he's written at least [TS]

00:22:09   three other books that i think would be [TS]

00:22:11   just excellent [TS]

00:22:12   you know adaptations including a long [TS]

00:22:15   way down [TS]

00:22:15   slam which always I'm gonna be great [TS]

00:22:19   yeah and a podcast and his most recent [TS]

00:22:21   one Juliet naked which is a great just a [TS]

00:22:24   great lackeys an expert at crafting [TS]

00:22:27   stories and and like like John saying [TS]

00:22:31   let's even kinghorn we can tell a great [TS]

00:22:32   story and I think that that have really [TS]

00:22:34   helps when you're translating something [TS]

00:22:36   from from page to screen trying to think [TS]

00:22:40   if there's one other thing on my so [TS]

00:22:42   actually I'm going to let me let me [TS]

00:22:44   branch off of something you said there [TS]

00:22:45   which is we're talking about these [TS]

00:22:46   movies that made changes to the book and [TS]

00:22:47   i think it's worth at least touching on [TS]

00:22:50   for a minute there can be adaptations [TS]

00:22:52   that fail because they honor the source [TS]

00:22:54   material too much and I think there are [TS]

00:22:56   medications that are successful because [TS]

00:22:58   they don't know is whether the slavish [TS]

00:23:02   adaptation right is yeah is a problem in [TS]

00:23:06   some ways if you are [TS]

00:23:07   if hearing so closely to the weather of [TS]

00:23:09   the book that you miss a book is not a [TS]

00:23:12   movie right you know they're [TS]

00:23:13   fundamentally two different forms like [TS]

00:23:15   Dom saying there's things you can't do [TS]

00:23:16   in a movie that you can do in a book and [TS]

00:23:18   vice versa and so you know if you're [TS]

00:23:21   trying to get here so closely then it [TS]

00:23:23   loses it's like trying to make a [TS]

00:23:25   photocopy and you know you might get [TS]

00:23:27   sort of some of the fidelity but if you [TS]

00:23:29   make a photocopy of a painting or [TS]

00:23:30   something you know it's not you you're [TS]

00:23:33   trying to reproduce it so exactly that [TS]

00:23:35   you're you lose something of the [TS]

00:23:37   original in that and and I think it's [TS]

00:23:40   you know best when you put it in the [TS]

00:23:42   hands of somebody who's really an artist [TS]

00:23:44   in their own particular you know media [TS]

00:23:47   right I think that's case number one [TS]

00:23:50   item number one on the case against [TS]

00:23:51   watchman is that is that he tried so [TS]

00:23:55   hard to be faithfully you know including [TS]

00:23:57   shot-by-shot recreations of panels and [TS]

00:24:00   in the end the most interesting thing in [TS]

00:24:02   that movie and I don't think it's as bad [TS]

00:24:03   as most people think it is but not [TS]

00:24:06   enough saying parts of it are terrible [TS]

00:24:07   but um but the most interesting thing in [TS]

00:24:09   the entire movie I think that everybody [TS]

00:24:10   seems to like is the opening credits [TS]

00:24:12   where he does something different that [TS]

00:24:15   fits the medium that he's in even though [TS]

00:24:17   he's telling the same story and the [TS]

00:24:19   opening credit montage is fantastic and [TS]

00:24:21   then you know but the rest of that movie [TS]

00:24:23   is with the exception of trying to fix [TS]

00:24:25   the the the ending which is kind of [TS]

00:24:27   broken in the original to its it's so [TS]

00:24:31   it's honoring the the gravity which is [TS]

00:24:34   great and i love it so much so that I [TS]

00:24:37   think it stifles the movie i think it [TS]

00:24:39   actually kills it and that is another [TS]

00:24:41   great you know example of that sort of [TS]

00:24:43   thing although it's going from film to [TS]

00:24:44   film is Gus Van Sant's attempt to do a [TS]

00:24:47   shop by shop remake of psycho which [TS]

00:24:49   totally loses the thread [TS]

00:24:53   I mean you know again what you're trying [TS]

00:24:55   to it there's a question of why but [TS]

00:24:57   there's also a well clearly there's [TS]

00:24:59   something going out going on in you know [TS]

00:25:01   something on you know intangible going [TS]

00:25:04   on in the original if you can copy a [TS]

00:25:05   shot-by-shot and you go from making a [TS]

00:25:07   one of the like best [TS]

00:25:09   you know thriller movies ever 21 works [TS]

00:25:13   throughout the movies ever [TS]

00:25:14   clearly there's something that you're [TS]

00:25:16   missing there and I think that's the [TS]

00:25:18   danger of [TS]

00:25:19   adapting a visual story to another [TS]

00:25:22   visual medium right because you know [TS]

00:25:24   graphic novels you have you can see it [TS]

00:25:26   so you're tempted I imagine I've never [TS]

00:25:29   made it with me but I would imagine that [TS]

00:25:30   I would be tempted i love this graphic [TS]

00:25:32   novel so much I want to take like the [TS]

00:25:34   guys already laid out what it looks like [TS]

00:25:36   so i can take that and just make it into [TS]

00:25:38   my movie and it should be perfect and [TS]

00:25:41   sadly it is not that's kind of us are [TS]

00:25:43   called because like at this point comics [TS]

00:25:46   especially about time watch men are [TS]

00:25:47   being influenced by cinema so it's like [TS]

00:25:49   it's a circle around where people are [TS]

00:25:50   putting in comic panels cinematic points [TS]

00:25:53   of view or things that they've seen in [TS]

00:25:55   movies and then that gets fed back into [TS]

00:25:57   a movie that gets fed back into the [TS]

00:25:58   comic books that are there are certain [TS]

00:25:59   things that are standard for comic books [TS]

00:26:01   things that are standard forms but at [TS]

00:26:02   this point they're so mixed up that it [TS]

00:26:05   like it for someone who hadn't read the [TS]

00:26:06   group The Watchmen graphic novel and I [TS]

00:26:08   saw the movie [TS]

00:26:09   sometimes I could pick out obviously [TS]

00:26:11   they doing that thing where they picked [TS]

00:26:12   a cell from that you know frame from the [TS]

00:26:14   comic book and they're doing on screen [TS]

00:26:16   but other points i could totally not [TS]

00:26:17   telling only later when i went through [TS]

00:26:19   the graphic novel that I see how that's [TS]

00:26:21   actually something from the novel i was [TS]

00:26:22   sure that was just something that was [TS]

00:26:24   put in the movie because it's so [TS]

00:26:25   cinematic and and what I see in the [TS]

00:26:28   comic books like a freeze frame from a [TS]

00:26:30   movie instead of vice versa [TS]

00:26:31   huh that's a good point that's a good [TS]

00:26:34   point just got what about you do you [TS]

00:26:36   have some sterling examples of [TS]

00:26:38   adaptations for us [TS]

00:26:40   well sterling I don't know about butBut [TS]

00:26:42   fun yes so and this one I don't know if [TS]

00:26:45   it was going to Ruth you're not but i [TS]

00:26:47   did enjoy the most recent hitchhiker's [TS]

00:26:50   guide to the galaxy movie which I didn't [TS]

00:26:54   get very good reviews and I heard [TS]

00:26:56   someone say you so that was maybe as I [TS]

00:26:58   may be alone in this but i think yeah I [TS]

00:27:01   didn't I didn't I didn't load that I [TS]

00:27:02   don't think I felt badly about it is as [TS]

00:27:04   other people do but I you know it wasn't [TS]

00:27:05   a perfect movie but I was disappointed I [TS]

00:27:07   was disappointed by it more than and [TS]

00:27:09   it's not love the source material so [TS]

00:27:11   much it did have its moments [TS]

00:27:13   that's why I enjoyed the moments I any [TS]

00:27:16   movie that starts with dolphins singing [TS]

00:27:18   a song it's really okay in my book [TS]

00:27:21   and so it can only go up from there or I [TS]

00:27:24   guess down from there you had never read [TS]

00:27:25   a book do you think you would have [TS]

00:27:27   enjoyed the movie at all [TS]

00:27:28   I probably not i think that i love the [TS]

00:27:32   books [TS]

00:27:32   much that it gained a halo effect and [TS]

00:27:35   the because you know what they're doing [TS]

00:27:37   like they did select this seemed like it [TS]

00:27:39   was like selected scenes from the [TS]

00:27:40   hitchhiker's guide and if you ever read [TS]

00:27:42   the whole thing the selected seems like [TS]

00:27:44   oh yeah I remember that party during a [TS]

00:27:45   movie now I look at it in a different [TS]

00:27:47   part you know but there was simply [TS]

00:27:49   didn't you know i can see that another [TS]

00:27:51   example of a book that it you know you [TS]

00:27:53   could argue is unfilmable and of course [TS]

00:27:55   you know maybe nothing's really [TS]

00:27:56   unfilmable in this day and age but again [TS]

00:27:59   there's something so in eight in in the [TS]

00:28:02   way the Adams writes that well and yet [TS]

00:28:05   the BBC series miniseries isn't it you [TS]

00:28:08   know is I think better you know tied [TS]

00:28:12   into the well the novel that material is [TS]

00:28:15   too long for a movie and the other thing [TS]

00:28:16   is it's like then was saying that the [TS]

00:28:19   transitions in the book from one Rico's [TS]

00:28:21   think the next happen because of douglas [TS]

00:28:24   adams writing so he brings you from you [TS]

00:28:26   know 1 plus the other unless you're [TS]

00:28:27   going to translate his writing directly [TS]

00:28:29   into a voiceover and do it in a [TS]

00:28:30   long-running miniseries this you can't [TS]

00:28:32   visually transition from one set of [TS]

00:28:35   events together without Douglas Adam [TS]

00:28:37   writing you through it tonight is toss [TS]

00:28:39   up the guide in most cases and have the [TS]

00:28:41   guide you know and and that can work or [TS]

00:28:43   not that happens in the in the TV series [TS]

00:28:45   the BBC TV series as well we're all of a [TS]

00:28:48   sudden you're back in the guide and I I [TS]

00:28:49   think of the movie they they they did a [TS]

00:28:51   pretty interesting job of trying to [TS]

00:28:53   weave the hitchhiker's guide itself into [TS]

00:28:55   the into the story but i suppose it [TS]

00:28:57   might make no sense if you haven't read [TS]

00:28:58   the book and it takes you out of the [TS]

00:29:00   movie experience that once you once even [TS]

00:29:02   let us probably voiceover is there any [TS]

00:29:04   sort of thing where you have like a [TS]

00:29:05   title card right you're taking me out of [TS]

00:29:06   the cinematic experience and saying now [TS]

00:29:08   we're going to read your blog and now [TS]

00:29:09   we're going to take your buddy Silver's [TS]

00:29:10   yeah i mean this the shawshank [TS]

00:29:12   redemption has voiceover I mean like you [TS]

00:29:14   know there is there yet but it is not [TS]

00:29:16   time in place for them but the [TS]

00:29:18   voice-over is not from the book the [TS]

00:29:19   voice-over is a device to make the movie [TS]

00:29:21   work it's not like show crazy scene then [TS]

00:29:24   grabbed three power is out of the book [TS]

00:29:26   and put them up on the screen as a [TS]

00:29:27   voice-over and then show another crazy [TS]

00:29:29   see you know but i think i think what [TS]

00:29:31   they were trying to do in the [TS]

00:29:32   hitchhiker's movie is something it as i [TS]

00:29:36   recall having only seen once something [TS]

00:29:38   almost more like I like what they didn't [TS]

00:29:41   scott pilgrim where it's it's like a [TS]

00:29:43   trying to be kind of this overlay [TS]

00:29:46   multiple you know where modern people we [TS]

00:29:49   multitask and here's this crazy [TS]

00:29:50   hitchhiker's guide because in some ways [TS]

00:29:51   the hitchhiker's guide as a concept [TS]

00:29:53   makes more sense now than it did then in [TS]

00:29:55   a way it's more real because we have [TS]

00:29:57   like Wikipedia and iPads and things like [TS]

00:29:59   that it's true and and so I kind of [TS]

00:30:02   think of it as like a at least in the [TS]

00:30:04   movie they kind of get like a pop-up [TS]

00:30:06   video kind of thing right so they would [TS]

00:30:08   be the the entry and hitchhiker's guide [TS]

00:30:10   that Stephen Fry would read because he [TS]

00:30:12   was the voice of the trackers got in the [TS]

00:30:14   movie was related to whatever action [TS]

00:30:17   maybe not directly but in some way that [TS]

00:30:20   was happening in the movie so kind of [TS]

00:30:21   gay and not you know i know this movie [TS]

00:30:23   is not great but I enjoyed it so it kind [TS]

00:30:26   of gave people who haven't read the book [TS]

00:30:28   an idea of what's going on [TS]

00:30:29   all right at least that's what they were [TS]

00:30:31   trying any other suggestions [TS]

00:30:34   Scott well i will suggest i only like [TS]

00:30:38   this movie because i hated the book so [TS]

00:30:40   much [TS]

00:30:41   ah so I i will say harry potter i enjoy [TS]

00:30:44   the movie much more than I enjoyed the [TS]

00:30:46   book did you watch other harry potter [TS]

00:30:48   movies i have watched all the harry [TS]

00:30:50   potter movie is a matter of fact and [TS]

00:30:52   refuse to read any of the books after [TS]

00:30:54   the first one very interesting [TS]

00:30:56   Scott and I to harry potter haters who [TS]

00:30:58   have all seen all the movies it's right [TS]

00:31:01   I like Harry Potter even though I have [TS]

00:31:05   to admit this as i'm reading them out [TS]

00:31:07   loud to my kids that she's really not a [TS]

00:31:09   very good writer she's a good thank [TS]

00:31:11   world builder and you can you know she's [TS]

00:31:14   good world builder and that comes across [TS]

00:31:16   the movies and she I think she gets [TS]

00:31:20   better as a writer as she goes along she [TS]

00:31:25   clearly learns are inherently podcast [TS]

00:31:27   talking talking about i think it does i [TS]

00:31:29   think I hydrated editor more later but [TS]

00:31:32   she's a better writer i think i think [TS]

00:31:34   it's this weird thing where she got less [TS]

00:31:36   editing because she was famous but she [TS]

00:31:37   was also actually working hard writing [TS]

00:31:40   these huge books and was just it was [TS]

00:31:42   getting better at her craft as she went [TS]

00:31:44   which is weird so she ended up being [TS]

00:31:46   kind of like need still needing an [TS]

00:31:47   editor but clearly being better what [TS]

00:31:50   she's doing [TS]

00:31:51   then she was at the beginning but the [TS]

00:31:53   world building is great and that leads [TS]

00:31:55   to these great movies that are a lot of [TS]

00:31:56   fun because there is some so much [TS]

00:31:59   interesting stuff to base the movie on [TS]

00:32:01   because it's she's got a plot and she's [TS]

00:32:03   got an interesting world which is a good [TS]

00:32:05   source material for a movie i was going [TS]

00:32:08   to hold these movies up as an example of [TS]

00:32:11   even though i haven't read the books as [TS]

00:32:13   an example of movies that suffered from [TS]

00:32:16   being too faithful for the book not that [TS]

00:32:19   they took everything that was in the [TS]

00:32:21   books and put it in there but they felt [TS]

00:32:22   the need to us at all we gotta have the [TS]

00:32:25   element X so we gotta have character why [TS]

00:32:26   are we going to have elements see and [TS]

00:32:28   they they did that too much they didn't [TS]

00:32:29   cut enough so what you end up with [TS]

00:32:31   especially for someone who hasn't read [TS]

00:32:32   the book and especially in later movies [TS]

00:32:34   are these movies where it's like Andrew [TS]

00:32:36   this this character in this plot point [TS]

00:32:38   and don't forget about this character [TS]

00:32:39   this plot point and by the way this [TS]

00:32:40   character this plot point and we'll hit [TS]

00:32:41   about this backstory but now it was too [TS]

00:32:43   many little things that were to just [TS]

00:32:45   jointed because they could not bear to [TS]

00:32:47   not have this thing in the movie when [TS]

00:32:49   really to make a better movie you should [TS]

00:32:50   have cut those characters combined [TS]

00:32:52   characters into one you know maybe I i [TS]

00:32:54   can see why you're saying that but [TS]

00:32:56   having read the books they actually do a [TS]

00:32:59   lot of that that I didn't have enough [TS]

00:33:00   they threw I think through as much out [TS]

00:33:03   as they thought they could get away with [TS]

00:33:04   a couldn't like combined characters for [TS]

00:33:06   example but I I do [TS]

00:33:08   having just seen one of these the other [TS]

00:33:10   day we my kids saw the fourth one for [TS]

00:33:12   the first time because we're watching [TS]

00:33:14   them after we read the books and boy [TS]

00:33:16   they they did a lot of compression [TS]

00:33:18   compression which was good because it's [TS]

00:33:19   a really long book and a lot of the [TS]

00:33:21   stuff could just get tossed out the [TS]

00:33:22   whole subplots get tossed out and things [TS]

00:33:24   get shortened down and simplified and [TS]

00:33:26   you know what they couldn't actually did [TS]

00:33:29   a pretty good job of the plot resolution [TS]

00:33:32   at the end because the book has got two [TS]

00:33:33   chapters of just painful plot exposition [TS]

00:33:36   at the end was like let me explain [TS]

00:33:38   everything that's been happening behind [TS]

00:33:39   the scenes while this entire book went [TS]

00:33:41   on [TS]

00:33:41   it's so awful and in the movie it's [TS]

00:33:44   handled much more straightforwardly my [TS]

00:33:46   wife was telling me that the big problem [TS]

00:33:48   from respect that because she's at [TS]

00:33:49   basically Harry Potter scholar at this [TS]

00:33:51   point the box [TS]

00:33:52   the big problem was that they started [TS]

00:33:54   filming the movies before the books were [TS]

00:33:56   done so because they didn't know where [TS]

00:33:57   this series we're going they didn't know [TS]

00:33:59   what was important and by the time you [TS]

00:34:01   get three or four movies in you like we [TS]

00:34:03   didn't even show this in movies 1 and 2 [TS]

00:34:04   because we didn't think it would be [TS]

00:34:05   important but now in book five and six [TS]

00:34:07   becomes super important and now we have [TS]

00:34:09   to fill you know backfill i read an [TS]

00:34:12   article on anything [TS]

00:34:13   weekly a few years back but said that [TS]

00:34:15   they actually had a few questions like [TS]

00:34:16   that road and JK Rowling approves all [TS]

00:34:19   the screenplays and she actually gave [TS]

00:34:21   them note saying no you can't get rid of [TS]

00:34:23   this character here because they are [TS]

00:34:25   important later [TS]

00:34:26   even though she hadn't written and [TS]

00:34:28   published all the books yet she knew [TS]

00:34:29   where the plot was going so they did [TS]

00:34:33   some of that at least where she was like [TS]

00:34:34   no no you can't take that out that [TS]

00:34:37   someone could have been worse but from [TS]

00:34:39   it from my wife's percentage and I think [TS]

00:34:40   that's what I'm saying it could have [TS]

00:34:41   been less interested there's the matter [TS]

00:34:44   of this week's podcast it could have [TS]

00:34:45   been worse along along those lines are [TS]

00:34:49   really similar genre any-to-any CS lewis [TS]

00:34:53   fans yeah I was a kid I read all those [TS]

00:34:56   books I mean I i really have a fun spot [TS]

00:34:58   for some of the books though going back [TS]

00:34:59   and reread them at you know when [TS]

00:35:01   slightly older you know there's a lot [TS]

00:35:03   there's a different reading you get when [TS]

00:35:05   you have an adult reading I totally [TS]

00:35:06   missed the whole thing about ashlynn [TS]

00:35:08   being Jesus yeah I think I i think that [TS]

00:35:11   probably as it has a war you know the [TS]

00:35:12   child of a family that didn't really [TS]

00:35:14   know go to church have much in the way [TS]

00:35:16   of religious upbringing that totally [TS]

00:35:18   flew over my head as well [TS]

00:35:19   that said I still think Lewis is a great [TS]

00:35:22   storyteller and several books on their [TS]

00:35:24   own are excellent excellent stories i [TS]

00:35:28   mean the voyage of the dawn treader i [TS]

00:35:29   have not seen the movie which is came [TS]

00:35:30   out but you're like last year i guess [TS]

00:35:33   but that book remains you know I'm very [TS]

00:35:35   a it I idea has a very fond memory for [TS]

00:35:38   me because it's very me and then later [TS]

00:35:40   you know comparing with other things [TS]

00:35:42   that reminds me very much of something [TS]

00:35:43   like The Odyssey and it's got this was [TS]

00:35:45   sort of a whole plot about you know [TS]

00:35:48   going on this this lengthy boat ride [TS]

00:35:51   with all these adventures and stuff like [TS]

00:35:52   that and i thought i only saw the first [TS]

00:35:54   of the movies which was okay i think to [TS]

00:35:58   a certain extent they do fall into that [TS]

00:36:00   trap of trying to remain a little bit [TS]

00:36:01   too faithful and and it comes across as [TS]

00:36:04   somewhat bloodless yeah diversity there [TS]

00:36:07   there are some good points in it and [TS]

00:36:11   there are some nice performances in some [TS]

00:36:14   you know a couple things elements that I [TS]

00:36:16   really did like but on the whole yeah it [TS]

00:36:20   does come across as a little bit too i [TS]

00:36:23   don't know just maybe just a little bit [TS]

00:36:24   too bloodless and I did not see [TS]

00:36:27   I heard the second one was better I [TS]

00:36:28   didn't see it for a second was better on [TS]

00:36:30   my I'm asking i say i was gonna say you [TS]

00:36:33   hit it right on the nose with blood [TS]

00:36:34   listen that the first movie was the best [TS]

00:36:36   of them in terms of building the world's [TS]

00:36:40   feel alive and making it feel like [TS]

00:36:41   there's something at stake in making [TS]

00:36:42   care about the characters in the red the [TS]

00:36:44   second was their third movie I don't [TS]

00:36:46   know if I've seen all them but it was [TS]

00:36:47   the third they get progressively more [TS]

00:36:49   generic and just nothing is at stake and [TS]

00:36:53   you're not really excited about anyone [TS]

00:36:55   that is going through the motions yeah [TS]

00:36:56   that I'd argue that the best of the [TS]

00:36:58   books maybe the ones that are tangential [TS]

00:37:00   to thats whole series which are the [TS]

00:37:03   horse and his boy and the magician's [TS]

00:37:05   nephew in that they sort of they aren't [TS]

00:37:08   about the characters that we follow [TS]

00:37:09   through the first three or four books [TS]

00:37:11   and they kind of stand on their own a [TS]

00:37:14   little better so i don't know if they'll [TS]

00:37:16   get around you know if it was i suppose [TS]

00:37:17   as long as those movies keep making [TS]

00:37:19   money than they keep making them but I [TS]

00:37:21   don't know if they'll get around to [TS]

00:37:22   those because they don't follow the sort [TS]

00:37:24   of main plot right so I've got I've got [TS]

00:37:29   some things to speak of positively iĆ­ve [TS]

00:37:31   actually i'm slightly cheating i have a [TS]

00:37:33   children's book a a non jon renau novel [TS]

00:37:38   and a graphic novel that I'll mention in [TS]

00:37:40   turn the children's book is The Iron [TS]

00:37:43   Giant based on the iron man i love this [TS]

00:37:48   movie and you know at some point movie [TS]

00:37:50   had some point we could even when we [TS]

00:37:52   talk about children's movies which I [TS]

00:37:53   think we're going to do I can I could [TS]

00:37:55   rhapsodize about it more but i love the [TS]

00:37:56   movie I think it's a great movie [TS]

00:37:58   it's brad bird before he went to Pixar [TS]

00:38:01   and made the incredibles and ratatouille [TS]

00:38:02   he made the Iron Giant and it sort of [TS]

00:38:04   sticked at the box office but gosh it's [TS]

00:38:06   a great movie and and based on a you [TS]

00:38:10   know some source material that's a [TS]

00:38:11   little bit different but a beloved [TS]

00:38:13   children's book called the Ironman and [TS]

00:38:16   so iron giant i think is a great example [TS]

00:38:19   of again you've got a you've got a book [TS]

00:38:22   with illustrations and a story but it's [TS]

00:38:24   not a particular you know it's not a [TS]

00:38:25   children's novel and then it's expanded [TS]

00:38:29   on and and made into this great movie [TS]

00:38:33   I got ya i'm actually just getting [TS]

00:38:35   goosebumps when you're talking about [TS]

00:38:36   just because I'm remembering the movie [TS]

00:38:37   is such a great movie today and [TS]

00:38:39   especially the you know the the climax [TS]

00:38:43   in the end of that room gets a little [TS]

00:38:44   dusty at the end of that movie so it is [TS]

00:38:46   it is a little eyes get along bad [TS]

00:38:48   yes oh yeah it's it's well done though [TS]

00:38:50   it's a very good movie i only saw it I i [TS]

00:38:52   first saw the movie just a few years ago [TS]

00:38:55   I mean it came out when the nineties [TS]

00:38:57   it's literally old i think i was a [TS]

00:39:00   teenager or something when it came out [TS]

00:39:01   but I'm i saw just a few years ago and [TS]

00:39:04   really I just really adored it's great [TS]

00:39:07   movie and it features the the vocal [TS]

00:39:10   stylings of hair country [TS]

00:39:12   yeah generate jennifer aniston and [TS]

00:39:14   commentaries elad the iron giant beast [TS]

00:39:17   was the iron giant that's right a role [TS]

00:39:19   he was our-our 1999 that that film came [TS]

00:39:23   out another one that i love and we [TS]

00:39:26   talked about this earlier when I grabbed [TS]

00:39:28   Dan high-fidelity unicorn be one of my [TS]

00:39:31   favorite writers i love this movie to [TS]

00:39:34   this is actually and and i love the book [TS]

00:39:36   and they are different but you know that [TS]

00:39:38   it's hearts in the right place the the [TS]

00:39:40   characters are strong john cusack is [TS]

00:39:42   exactly as much of a an idiot who has [TS]

00:39:47   got a lot to learn about life and about [TS]

00:39:49   his relationship with other people [TS]

00:39:51   especially women and just does a great [TS]

00:39:54   job eh you know i think it's it's a [TS]

00:39:57   great performance by him great direction [TS]

00:39:59   by stephen frears of interesting so [TS]

00:40:02   English director reset the movie into [TS]

00:40:04   America and then have an English [TS]

00:40:05   director love that movie I and that's [TS]

00:40:08   one of those movies that i can watch [TS]

00:40:09   again and again and and and I just [TS]

00:40:12   really liked it even though they made a [TS]

00:40:13   bunch of changes to it it's still really [TS]

00:40:15   is holds up [TS]

00:40:17   yeah and-and-and I'd hasn't changed my [TS]

00:40:19   feelings about the book the book is [TS]

00:40:20   great the movies great they're a little [TS]

00:40:22   different [TS]

00:40:22   they're both great and for the in the [TS]

00:40:26   graphic novel category i mentioned watch [TS]

00:40:30   men being a bit of a failure I'm going [TS]

00:40:34   to turn it around with another alan [TS]

00:40:35   moore selection which is V for Vendetta [TS]

00:40:37   which I really love it hits hits me just [TS]

00:40:43   write it i really like that movie [TS]

00:40:46   I interesting affecting has some [TS]

00:40:49   interesting things to say I think about [TS]

00:40:51   politics without being too preachy I [TS]

00:40:54   actually think that you can view it in a [TS]

00:40:55   bunch of different ways and I think it [TS]

00:40:57   makes them interesting statements about [TS]

00:40:59   totality arianism ended yet it's got a [TS]

00:41:01   1984 kind of vibe and a lot of nods to [TS]

00:41:05   1984 it right down to the fact that John [TS]

00:41:07   Hurt is in it who was in the movie 1984 [TS]

00:41:10   and I've got the graphic novel and the [TS]

00:41:14   graphic novel is good but i think they [TS]

00:41:18   did a good job and in in translating it [TS]

00:41:20   and and you know it it's easy to mess [TS]

00:41:25   something like this up as watch Ben I [TS]

00:41:27   think showed and I don't think they did [TS]

00:41:29   with the fervent vendetta in fact if you [TS]

00:41:31   view this it was directed by james [TS]

00:41:32   McTeague but it was produced by the wash [TS]

00:41:34   house keys and if you view this through [TS]

00:41:36   the lens of how how bad the matrix [TS]

00:41:39   sequels were what-what-what matrix [TS]

00:41:41   sequels if you view anything through [TS]

00:41:44   that lens looks better [TS]

00:41:45   that's that's true i think we should [TS]

00:41:49   talk about bad movies [TS]

00:41:51   let's get negative that's all i can [TS]

00:41:53   think about who's all right I'll aalam [TS]

00:41:56   i'm going to start and say that one of [TS]

00:41:58   the mood one of the books that i [TS]

00:42:00   actually have always enjoyed and was one [TS]

00:42:02   of my favorite books when I was a [TS]

00:42:03   teenager is arthur c Clark's sequel to [TS]

00:42:07   his novel 2001 called 2010 and I really [TS]

00:42:12   liked that book it's got a lot of [TS]

00:42:13   interesting stuff in it some interesting [TS]

00:42:15   characters some interesting stuff [TS]

00:42:16   happens and then they made the movie and [TS]

00:42:18   it's not just the peter hyams is no [TS]

00:42:21   Stanley Kubrick but that movie is is bad [TS]

00:42:26   it's bad in lots of ways it takes some [TS]

00:42:29   liberties when it shouldn't and then is [TS]

00:42:32   devoted to the story in ways that it [TS]

00:42:34   shouldn't be and omits the best scene [TS]

00:42:38   which kills me [TS]

00:42:39   probably for budgetary reasons the best [TS]

00:42:42   scene the scene that sticks with me more [TS]

00:42:44   than any other the scene that gave me [TS]

00:42:45   chills when I read when I reread it on [TS]

00:42:49   new year's eve 2010 I i spent a couple [TS]

00:42:54   hours and i reread some of the novel and [TS]

00:42:58   I didn't they just didn't [TS]

00:42:59   they took it all out they didn't even [TS]

00:43:01   try to film it or even mention it they [TS]

00:43:02   just took it all out butchered bad movie [TS]

00:43:05   enjoyable book think it's a bad [TS]

00:43:08   reputation sequels the other sequels [TS]

00:43:11   aren't as good but i really enjoyed that [TS]

00:43:13   book i think it was interesting to have [TS]

00:43:14   arthur c clarke kind of reclaim his part [TS]

00:43:16   of the story separate from the movie but [TS]

00:43:20   then they made a movie and a big mistake [TS]

00:43:22   and bad movie and it came out within a [TS]

00:43:24   couple weeks of dune by the way at one [TS]

00:43:26   point they were both playing [TS]

00:43:27   side-by-side in my local local adduplex [TS]

00:43:30   movie house in the small town that I [TS]

00:43:33   grew up in I I you you remind me this by [TS]

00:43:38   mentioning Eleanor and alan moore of [TS]

00:43:40   course you famously does not want his [TS]

00:43:43   name on any movie that is made out of [TS]

00:43:45   his his comic books but i will say keep [TS]

00:43:46   the league of extraordinary gentlemen [TS]

00:43:49   it's a pretty good comic book on a [TS]

00:43:50   narrowboat movie that is one of the one [TS]

00:43:54   of the worst movies i may have ever seen [TS]

00:43:56   in a movie theater and again not for [TS]

00:44:01   lack mean not for lack of trying in some [TS]

00:44:03   ways I mean I do love to have a special [TS]

00:44:05   place in my heart for Sean Connery and [TS]

00:44:07   yet he does not that is not a good [TS]

00:44:10   revision in any way shape or form and [TS]

00:44:13   Alan Moore's is right to have taken his [TS]

00:44:16   name off of them [TS]

00:44:17   Scott can you be negative now I can be [TS]

00:44:21   negative so I i have to preface this by [TS]

00:44:23   saying that uh when I was younger I [TS]

00:44:27   would follow I still do this I fall into [TS]

00:44:29   certain moods and i obsessively read [TS]

00:44:33   certain authors or genres and so at some [TS]

00:44:36   point i came across one of l ron [TS]

00:44:38   Hubbard's [TS]

00:44:40   he wants fiction writer before he was a [TS]

00:44:43   founder of a religion and I get your but [TS]

00:44:47   you're not going to believe this is [TS]

00:44:48   scott but before I was deciding whether [TS]

00:44:50   i wanted to mention battlefield earth or [TS]

00:44:52   let you go [TS]

00:44:53   ah really serious i wrote it down [TS]

00:44:56   battlecruiser is a battlefield earth is [TS]

00:44:58   going exactly the book it's i read the [TS]

00:45:01   book and I mean it's not a great piece [TS]

00:45:02   of literature but I'll ron Hubbard is [TS]

00:45:05   not a great writer but he's a pulp you [TS]

00:45:07   know a pulp sci-fi writer so his books [TS]

00:45:09   are fun [TS]

00:45:10   I'm i Dianetics in those books are a [TS]

00:45:13   different kind of literature so [TS]

00:45:17   battlefield earth as a book is a fun [TS]

00:45:18   book it's really long and then you get [TS]

00:45:21   John Travolta who is a devout [TS]

00:45:24   Scientologist who wants to bring you [TS]

00:45:27   know l ron Hubbard's masterpiece to the [TS]

00:45:30   through the screen right and and [TS]

00:45:32   speaking of slavish devotion to the book [TS]

00:45:34   right [TS]

00:45:35   he just films this i think it was 16 [TS]

00:45:38   hours long movie that is just awful only [TS]

00:45:42   seemed like it was that like that that I [TS]

00:45:43   tried to watch that movie in and just to [TS]

00:45:47   make fun of it with friends cars we end [TS]

00:45:50   usually that goes pretty well we [TS]

00:45:52   couldn't get through like however it was [TS]

00:45:54   so terrible that movie is so bad you [TS]

00:45:56   can't even make promises i watch the [TS]

00:45:58   whole thing [TS]

00:45:58   no you know so bad it's funny this is so [TS]

00:46:00   bad it's funny that you haven't murdered [TS]

00:46:02   yourself exactly i would be bad i would [TS]

00:46:08   not recommend that he would watch [TS]

00:46:09   battlefield [TS]

00:46:10   yeah no don't don't just hit you might [TS]

00:46:13   say to yourself well get the rifftrax [TS]

00:46:14   and about no no don't it's not worth it [TS]

00:46:17   read the book the book isn't all that [TS]

00:46:19   great but it's much better than the [TS]

00:46:20   movie [TS]

00:46:21   well he wasn't you know he was a pulp [TS]

00:46:22   sci-fi writer before he was a founder of [TS]

00:46:25   a religion and and its trip that you can [TS]

00:46:28   he could do fun stuff [TS]

00:46:29   yeah i mean i read a lot of his books he [TS]

00:46:31   wrote a ten-part series mission earth [TS]

00:46:34   which I read which is a lot of fun i [TS]

00:46:36   hope John Travolta does not make any [TS]

00:46:38   mission of movies i would i would i [TS]

00:46:41   would like to see somebody going in the [TS]

00:46:42   other direction start religion and then [TS]

00:46:45   become a pulp science fiction author you [TS]

00:46:47   know if Jesus is written top science [TS]

00:46:49   fiction for example might have very [TS]

00:46:51   different out he went under the sun [TS]

00:46:53   under the pen-name ass land oh wait a [TS]

00:46:57   second I see what you did there come [TS]

00:47:00   back [TS]

00:47:02   that may be the worst movie ever made by [TS]

00:47:04   anyone in the United I don't know if [TS]

00:47:07   they made it all the way down the bottom [TS]

00:47:09   of the AMD bottom 100 but I about pretty [TS]

00:47:11   sure it's in there [TS]

00:47:12   I'm just trying to think of other [TS]

00:47:13   terrible movies made throughout history [TS]

00:47:14   and and imagining if they were novel [TS]

00:47:16   sprite it's like the guy the guy who [TS]

00:47:18   wrote geely not always ago they messed [TS]

00:47:20   up my book and read everything through [TS]

00:47:22   and my book the guy who wrote the novel [TS]

00:47:25   from Justin to Kelly he must be furious [TS]

00:47:27   when they made that well that's my [TS]

00:47:29   allergy or didn't want his name on that [TS]

00:47:31   movie because there's a great comic book [TS]

00:47:34   now I mean well yeah but they took out [TS]

00:47:37   the swamp thing entirely when they [TS]

00:47:38   remade this from Justin to Kelly it's a [TS]

00:47:40   shame it did it [TS]

00:47:42   yeah I believe Justin he was the floor [TS]

00:47:45   onic man in the original comic think [TS]

00:47:48   that I think that's right yes starship [TS]

00:47:50   troopers is also another movie that I [TS]

00:47:53   think not out clearly not as bad [TS]

00:47:56   battlefield earth i know i like that [TS]

00:47:57   movie I I don't have to analyze and my [TS]

00:48:00   starship troopers it's it's interesting [TS]

00:48:03   though because in some ways it has a [TS]

00:48:05   very antithetical I think point compared [TS]

00:48:08   to the book like there's a movie that [TS]

00:48:10   was made that has a you know kind of the [TS]

00:48:13   almost the opposite [TS]

00:48:15   yes I don't think that looking i think [TS]

00:48:16   it's i think it's just morally I think [TS]

00:48:18   it's more of a satire and ave potatoes [TS]

00:48:21   au gratin potatoes so far in the [TS]

00:48:23   direction like it takes an earnest [TS]

00:48:26   message and does it even more earnestly [TS]

00:48:29   to the point you're like okay no one can [TS]

00:48:31   be this earnest this must be a sad time [TS]

00:48:32   right so right but i think i like to [TS]

00:48:34   think that I'm yeah I think that's the [TS]

00:48:36   point right exactly i mean like [TS]

00:48:37   highlands very serious about what he was [TS]

00:48:39   what he was talking about in terms of [TS]

00:48:40   you know the military whereas the you [TS]

00:48:42   know clearly the movie I mean get no [TS]

00:48:44   farther than dressing up Neil Patrick [TS]

00:48:46   Harris not basically a Nazi help like [TS]

00:48:49   not all right you're making a point here [TS]

00:48:50   yeah its memory is it's not a terrible [TS]

00:48:55   movie and someone's going to great movie [TS]

00:48:57   i like it because i like it because [TS]

00:48:58   Jughead to watch that movie think it's [TS]

00:49:01   about how awesome the army if that's a [TS]

00:49:02   favorite thing for me about that [TS]

00:49:03   propagates it's a satire that most [TS]

00:49:05   people don't view as a sad [TS]

00:49:06   that's the most successful kind because [TS]

00:49:08   you'll see tons of people like starship [TS]

00:49:09   troopers is awesome man with those bugs [TS]

00:49:11   and shoot them [TS]

00:49:12   that's what the majority of the public i [TS]

00:49:14   feel thinks about when they see starship [TS]

00:49:16   troopers and i just missed the entire [TS]

00:49:17   rest of it [TS]

00:49:18   one that i wanted to mention the golden [TS]

00:49:21   compass anyone read that I'm not [TS]

00:49:24   available feel successful a movie that [TS]

00:49:27   they didn't go on and make the other [TS]

00:49:28   that movie was awful and the book is [TS]

00:49:31   delightful [TS]

00:49:32   I've heard I've heard that those those [TS]

00:49:33   books are actually very good and I've [TS]

00:49:35   been meaning to read those books I I [TS]

00:49:37   think they're they're deeply deeply [TS]

00:49:39   flawed and and i think that the the [TS]

00:49:41   first book there there's some great [TS]

00:49:43   stuff in there but I that first book is [TS]

00:49:46   really problematic and I think they got [TS]

00:49:49   the movie wasn't any good either [TS]

00:49:50   although it did have giant armored polar [TS]

00:49:52   bears fighting at one point which if [TS]

00:49:54   there's anything redeeming in that in [TS]

00:49:55   that movie it was that true about the [TS]

00:49:58   books like SuperDuper anti-religion [TS]

00:50:00   that's why the movies were no good if [TS]

00:50:02   that's the case because you can make a [TS]

00:50:03   movie that sense of religion because no [TS]

00:50:04   one will go see it but apparently you [TS]

00:50:06   can make a series of fantasy books and [TS]

00:50:08   while auntie organized religion and [TS]

00:50:10   people buy them yeah there's a lot of [TS]

00:50:14   stuff in that movie in those books that [TS]

00:50:15   is this kind of I mean I you know I [TS]

00:50:17   won't say that it wasn't successful [TS]

00:50:19   because it didn't sell but because [TS]

00:50:21   there's up there's a problem with the [TS]

00:50:22   plot and character isn't he an issue [TS]

00:50:23   okay so it's not it's not necessarily [TS]

00:50:25   that it's preachy about what it's pretty [TS]

00:50:27   well I think it's poorly i think it's [TS]

00:50:28   poorly written in some ways there's [TS]

00:50:29   there's some stuff that's not you know [TS]

00:50:31   it's just there are some stuff in there [TS]

00:50:33   in those books that is is quite sloppy [TS]

00:50:35   from a writing perspective in my opinion [TS]

00:50:37   Scott did you like the books i did like [TS]

00:50:39   the books I i don't recall anything that [TS]

00:50:41   happened didn't but when i was on home i [TS]

00:50:44   did enjoy them actually just a hypnotic [TS]

00:50:47   suggestion that you will feel refreshed [TS]

00:50:49   and enjoy the enjoyed the books accepted [TS]

00:50:52   no actual plot no plot and I I the [TS]

00:50:57   movies was awful [TS]

00:50:58   the book was not all [TS]

00:51:02   alright there's a lot of that there is [TS]

00:51:03   that there are more bad applications [TS]

00:51:05   than good adaptations for I think screen [TS]

00:51:08   there more but they're more bad movies [TS]

00:51:10   then there are good movies i think two [TS]

00:51:11   is anyone seen screamers there's a bad [TS]

00:51:15   movie based on and philip k dick short [TS]

00:51:18   story [TS]

00:51:20   philip k dick is really a and I have a [TS]

00:51:23   rifle through every single thing he's [TS]

00:51:24   written now and turn it into a movie i [TS]

00:51:26   think with with varying degrees of [TS]

00:51:27   success [TS]

00:51:28   yes right blade runner one ball total [TS]

00:51:33   recall you [TS]

00:51:34   Blade Runner is a good example of of [TS]

00:51:36   taking taking a book are novel and then [TS]

00:51:40   making a movie that has the same title [TS]

00:51:41   but had never entitled call you don't [TS]

00:51:45   mean that we wanted android your [TS]

00:51:47   electrical work if that but you know to [TS]

00:51:49   me it's it's based on a novel but has so [TS]

00:51:52   little to do with it that so level and [TS]

00:51:54   that book are so far apart in tone and [TS]

00:51:57   message in plot in characters and [TS]

00:52:00   everything is just like I guess you were [TS]

00:52:02   inspired by the everybody only dick the [TS]

00:52:06   total total recall is interesting [TS]

00:52:08   because there was this there is the [TS]

00:52:11   novella that turned into the movie and [TS]

00:52:14   then the movie had a tie-in novel [TS]

00:52:16   novelization of course and also have [TS]

00:52:19   that by piers anthony oh so from philip [TS]

00:52:23   k dick you go all the way back and rest [TS]

00:52:25   adjusting it to me you know that is that [TS]

00:52:27   is it secure [TS]

00:52:30   you know so before we go I wanted to [TS]

00:52:32   mention a novelization speaking [TS]

00:52:36   novelizations that that I loved when I [TS]

00:52:38   was a teenager that was just a movie [TS]

00:52:41   novelization so going back the other [TS]

00:52:42   direction which is one of my favorite [TS]

00:52:45   movies and Star Trek to and i bought the [TS]

00:52:47   novelization of that which is by vonda [TS]

00:52:49   mcintyre who's won the hugo awards and [TS]

00:52:51   there's a very good writer and I I [TS]

00:52:54   probably if I went back and read it now [TS]

00:52:56   I'd be deeply disappointed but I read [TS]

00:52:57   that thing like two or three times and [TS]

00:52:59   it was a really good book largely [TS]

00:53:01   because she expanded the screenplay into [TS]

00:53:05   a novel's worth of of stuff it's sort of [TS]

00:53:08   the reverse of what we were saying about [TS]

00:53:09   harry potter where you have to throw a [TS]

00:53:11   bunch of stuff out she's sort of you [TS]

00:53:13   know in star trek to when they go down [TS]

00:53:14   to the the [TS]

00:53:15   the space station that's orbiting around [TS]

00:53:17   the asteroid they find all the dead [TS]

00:53:19   bodies hanging in there and it's sort of [TS]

00:53:22   like oh those guys who were in that one [TS]

00:53:23   scene earlier in the background now [TS]

00:53:25   they're dead [TS]

00:53:26   well whatever and in the novel they're [TS]

00:53:28   like all of these scenes with these [TS]

00:53:29   characters and their the scientists [TS]

00:53:30   they're trying to figure out this [TS]

00:53:31   problem and then they're running and [TS]

00:53:33   they're trying to escape from con before [TS]

00:53:34   he kills them all and they get ma died [TS]

00:53:36   and they're coming up and it's very sad [TS]

00:53:38   and so every now and then I I you know [TS]

00:53:41   at least when I was a when I was younger [TS]

00:53:43   readers movie novelizations and most of [TS]

00:53:45   them were very bad but that was pretty [TS]

00:53:47   good and I've got on my bookshelf here [TS]

00:53:49   but still haven't read it [TS]

00:53:50   the out-of-print abyss novelization [TS]

00:53:53   which is by orson scott card which is [TS]

00:53:55   actually supposed to be not actually [TS]

00:53:56   supposed to be not bad but strange and [TS]

00:53:59   and I and I believe long out-of-print [TS]

00:54:02   which ice [TS]

00:54:03   I may be the only person in the world to [TS]

00:54:05   own a copy of the novelization of Hudson [TS]

00:54:09   Hawk which was given to me by an [TS]

00:54:13   ex-girlfriend who worked in a bookstore [TS]

00:54:14   because she found it one day and onto [TS]

00:54:16   that was book section that i have not I [TS]

00:54:18   have not cracked it open but it the idea [TS]

00:54:20   that they novelized that music to be [TS]

00:54:22   like who is the audience but because it [TS]

00:54:25   only liked it you know I wanted a few [TS]

00:54:26   people like the movie [TS]

00:54:27   most people didn't like the movie and it [TS]

00:54:29   seems unlikely with novelizations [TS]

00:54:31   fascinating Marco they thought people [TS]

00:54:32   would like it right you gotta be you [TS]

00:54:33   gotta say this is gonna be a hit we're [TS]

00:54:35   gonna have a novelization out there you [TS]

00:54:37   can change novel is it novelizations [TS]

00:54:39   fascinate me because they say look we [TS]

00:54:42   think you're unlikely to watch the movie [TS]

00:54:44   or something or you either you enjoyed [TS]

00:54:47   the movie or we think you're unlikely to [TS]

00:54:48   watch it but like what person says yeah [TS]

00:54:50   you know what I don't really like that [TS]

00:54:51   will be all wait for the book right [TS]

00:54:54   I don't think that's a big slice like [TS]

00:54:56   it's your various people are waiting for [TS]

00:54:57   the related by the movie and you want to [TS]

00:55:00   read the book because the movie was so [TS]

00:55:02   great you want to read the book at him [TS]

00:55:04   like usual a 210 mostly one more about [TS]

00:55:06   their especially when they adapt books [TS]

00:55:09   and then novel eyes them again because [TS]

00:55:10   clearly the people who are considered [TS]

00:55:12   themselves too snooty 22 oh yeah that [TS]

00:55:14   was a much better book aren't gonna read [TS]

00:55:16   a novelization yeah what do I think [TS]

00:55:19   you're the first people I've ever met [TS]

00:55:20   who bought novelizations and rhythm [TS]

00:55:22   always wanted to buys these things [TS]

00:55:23   novelizations movies there anybody out [TS]

00:55:25   there looking for these but here we have [TS]

00:55:26   two people who willingly for [TS]

00:55:28   you got novelizations of movies i didn't [TS]

00:55:30   buy one it was given mine was given i [TS]

00:55:32   can't remember the last time i did it [TS]

00:55:34   but when i was when i was a kid in a [TS]

00:55:36   huge Star Trek fan and i would buy any [TS]

00:55:39   Star Trek book that i could get my hands [TS]

00:55:40   on and then you know they came out with [TS]

00:55:42   a novelization of these books and now [TS]

00:55:44   that one I are in particular I remember [TS]

00:55:46   because it was by an actually you know a [TS]

00:55:49   good novelist and and she did a i think [TS]

00:55:52   a pretty good job and and that there are [TS]

00:55:54   some other some other really good [TS]

00:55:55   writers who have done novelizations of [TS]

00:55:57   didn't Greg bear it great where does a [TS]

00:56:01   halo I think he did [TS]

00:56:03   hello yeah there's some strange so the [TS]

00:56:06   video game novelizations is also a [TS]

00:56:07   really big really big thing that you but [TS]

00:56:09   I was gonna say i have all the I do [TS]

00:56:11   actually have all the novelization of [TS]

00:56:12   the Star Wars trilogy right which are [TS]

00:56:15   odd and then the splitter in my mind's [TS]

00:56:18   eye which is like in the nether regional [TS]

00:56:20   which was written by the same guy who [TS]

00:56:21   goes fairly lost star wars [TS]

00:56:23   yeah the star wars novelization the [TS]

00:56:25   Stars the opposition is notable for me [TS]

00:56:27   in that it actually contains a reference [TS]

00:56:29   like obi-wan Kenobi talks about ducks [TS]

00:56:31   which may or may not exist in the star [TS]

00:56:35   wars universe it's unclear got arrested [TS]

00:56:38   somehow you know exchange and that was [TS]

00:56:40   by George Lucas right window [TS]

00:56:43   hi George look it was by alan dean [TS]

00:56:45   foster goes right but the first one is [TS]

00:56:47   actually credited to George Lucas what [TS]

00:56:49   it is literally just behind a return of [TS]

00:56:51   the jedi yeah i think they later on [TS]

00:56:54   changing minor reprints of it they took [TS]

00:56:57   off [TS]

00:56:58   they took off Lucas's name is khan you [TS]

00:57:00   know it's not just not Jimmy combi ask [TS]

00:57:02   the the axon like misspelling wrath of [TS]

00:57:05   ahs what is this Darth Vader guy the [TS]

00:57:09   wrath of james caan I've got a book [TS]

00:57:12   about a movie i would watch the rap of [TS]

00:57:16   james caan by the way i would read the [TS]

00:57:19   novelization of the wrath of change come [TS]

00:57:21   in misery also another I think movie [TS]

00:57:23   that did a good job of translating from [TS]

00:57:25   a book to movie [TS]

00:57:26   speaking of James Caan and and [TS]

00:57:29   even King another one of Stephen King [TS]

00:57:30   shorter books only about an inch thick [TS]

00:57:33   maybe less [TS]

00:57:34   are there are there books that you feel [TS]

00:57:36   should or need to be made it clear that [TS]

00:57:39   you would like to see as a movie I'd [TS]

00:57:41   like to see The Dark Tower is a [TS]

00:57:43   miniseries and luckily i'm gonna always [TS]

00:57:44   going to get that chance to tell me [TS]

00:57:46   you're gonna get a movie and then a TV [TS]

00:57:47   series and then another movie iron that [TS]

00:57:49   I movie series i would like the dark [TS]

00:57:51   tower to get the Lord of the Rings type [TS]

00:57:53   treatment and it won't fit in the series [TS]

00:57:56   of movies so i guess they have to do [TS]

00:57:57   some of the forms of they're gonna do it [TS]

00:57:58   as a miniseries and and and a bunch of [TS]

00:58:00   movies then give it a try i hope it [TS]

00:58:03   doesn't come out like the standard [TS]

00:58:04   miniseries which was a total disaster [TS]

00:58:07   so I've got my fingers crossed for a [TS]

00:58:08   dark tower they're making two other good [TS]

00:58:12   neil gaiman works into into adaptations [TS]

00:58:15   the Good Omens and the american gods are [TS]

00:58:17   both being turned into I think [TS]

00:58:19   miniseries I'm both which are excellent [TS]

00:58:22   books see I'm looking forward to that [TS]

00:58:24   and i would say I this actually came [TS]

00:58:27   recently a cousin of my cousin's email [TS]

00:58:29   me to say her husband was a huge film [TS]

00:58:31   buff was talking to this guy who is who [TS]

00:58:33   had made a fairly well-known movie and [TS]

00:58:36   said this guy is looking for you know [TS]

00:58:38   his next sort of project and looking [TS]

00:58:40   something to adapt into a movie and so [TS]

00:58:42   she was asking us for suggestions and [TS]

00:58:44   one of the ones i came up with which is [TS]

00:58:46   a series of books that I mean for a [TS]

00:58:48   while by any mike carey who's a fairly [TS]

00:58:51   well-known comic book writer has also [TS]

00:58:52   written this series of novels about a [TS]

00:58:56   their kind of a new war supernatural [TS]

00:58:59   story and when they're about a guy who's [TS]

00:59:00   an exorcist but he's very much in the [TS]

00:59:02   mold of your sort of classic noir [TS]

00:59:04   detective and I think those the they're [TS]

00:59:07   called the Felix caster series and I [TS]

00:59:09   think those would make very interesting [TS]

00:59:11   either sort of seemed like a bad picture [TS]

00:59:13   them is like a BBC series type thing [TS]

00:59:16   with you know six episodes per season or [TS]

00:59:18   something like that but it would be I [TS]

00:59:20   would be really interested to see how [TS]

00:59:21   they would adapt those um I think I [TS]

00:59:24   think of the sci-fi novels of jack [TS]

00:59:26   mcdevitt are all sort of widescreen [TS]

00:59:29   sci-fi you know big big idea kind of a [TS]

00:59:33   rollicking space adventures and I i'm [TS]

00:59:36   surprised that one of those hasn't made [TS]

00:59:37   it into a a big-budget sci-fi movie [TS]

00:59:40   because the kind of mystery action [TS]

00:59:42   you know spaceships flying around kind [TS]

00:59:45   of stuff so I'm a little surprised but I [TS]

00:59:48   would also go with you Dan [TS]

00:59:50   I'd love to slam by nick hornby as a as [TS]

00:59:53   a movie while Tony Hawk can still be [TS]

00:59:56   himself as the as the appearance of the [TS]

00:59:59   good [TS]

00:59:59   good [TS]

01:00:00   post or astral projection or something [TS]

01:00:02   of tony hawk as at leaving makeup looks [TS]

01:00:06   really good yeah that would make an [TS]

01:00:08   excellent movie series i don't know how [TS]

01:00:11   you do it means miniseries now I think [TS]

01:00:12   that would be a public thing you make [TS]

01:00:13   that what that could work as a movie i [TS]

01:00:15   think the miniseries it's unfortunate [TS]

01:00:16   the main series gets a pretty bad rap in [TS]

01:00:18   the US for the most part except for HBO [TS]

01:00:20   communications like HBO basically was [TS]

01:00:22   going to put the money into it but i'm [TS]

01:00:24   slammed with work and it is genre in the [TS]

01:00:27   sense that there's like an alternate [TS]

01:00:28   there's like it also is a sliding doors [TS]

01:00:30   kind of thing where there's like an [TS]

01:00:31   alternate reality that he visits or [TS]

01:00:33   something and then he comes back to the [TS]

01:00:35   one reality and tony hawk is his spirit [TS]

01:00:37   guide them it's funny it's good as i [TS]

01:00:40   mentioned i whatever I get obsessed with [TS]

01:00:42   particular author so as I was a kid I [TS]

01:00:44   was obsessed with Isaac as well and i [TS]

01:00:47   read the Foundation series which [TS]

01:00:50   probably is better in my mom and my [TS]

01:00:52   memory than actually in reality but i [TS]

01:00:54   would be interested in some way that I [TS]

01:00:56   mean I would tap that i don't know i had [TS]

01:00:59   developed god I mean we didn't know we [TS]

01:01:01   mentioned i robot which is a terrible at [TS]

01:01:03   it yeah well it's not even an adaptation [TS]

01:01:05   really know although is everything a [TS]

01:01:07   resident listen [TS]

01:01:09   yeah Allison screenplay which is very [TS]

01:01:10   good very very good if you if you are [TS]

01:01:13   and get a chance to read it it's it was [TS]

01:01:15   published as a book [TS]

01:01:16   yeah harlan ellison's irobot screenplay [TS]

01:01:20   he did a great job at trying to bring [TS]

01:01:22   all that together and and it's a you [TS]

01:01:24   know it's sort of a shame that never got [TS]

01:01:26   made because it's way better like this [TS]

01:01:27   will smith movie photos my really like I [TS]

01:01:31   really liked is that his mystery series [TS]

01:01:33   sci-fi mystery series the caves of steel [TS]

01:01:34   the as mouth ones but there's a trail [TS]

01:01:37   right i think i read four books that [TS]

01:01:39   that tie in with foundation later on but [TS]

01:01:41   I reliable those are kind of fun sort of [TS]

01:01:43   pop boilers right about a rendezvous [TS]

01:01:47   with rama which apparently will never [TS]

01:01:50   actually be made into a movie but they [TS]

01:01:52   keep trying to make it into a movie they [TS]

01:01:54   keep trying now I think cgi the [TS]

01:01:56   advancements of special-effects has [TS]

01:01:58   really made some of these unfilmable [TS]

01:01:59   sci-fi movies filmed yet but and you [TS]

01:02:01   know we saw with Lord of the Rings and [TS]

01:02:03   and it goes from there I i'm skeptical [TS]

01:02:05   ironical reforma could be ok but they [TS]

01:02:07   probably you know make it as you know [TS]

01:02:11   actually possible but really it's like [TS]

01:02:12   people in a big too [TS]

01:02:13   taking a scary elevator is sort of what [TS]

01:02:15   that movie will screw it up but it's [TS]

01:02:17   just fascinating because it's been in [TS]

01:02:18   development hell for so long that you [TS]

01:02:20   like and how you're the point where i [TS]

01:02:21   can't possibly be good but you just want [TS]

01:02:23   to see it get film just finally make it [TS]

01:02:24   so we can all get mad at it move on [TS]

01:02:27   yeah I'm interested to see they are [TS]

01:02:30   supposedly may also making a movie of [TS]

01:02:32   john scalzi these old man's war the old [TS]

01:02:35   man's war wolfgang petersen i think is [TS]

01:02:38   making it which is an interesting note [TS]

01:02:41   that the skull see thing I you know [TS]

01:02:43   those are good books that whole series [TS]

01:02:45   is really good and I can see how that [TS]

01:02:47   could be a pretty cool pretty cool movie [TS]

01:02:49   because again you got action you've got [TS]

01:02:50   the whole kind of war backdrop and [TS]

01:02:52   you've got some interesting character [TS]

01:02:53   stories about these old people who [TS]

01:02:55   become young people so that deadly [TS]

01:02:58   threat cocoon but with guns yeah with [TS]

01:03:00   the end big blue super strong soldier [TS]

01:03:04   people and aliens and guns yeah it's [TS]

01:03:07   great it's great it's a conspiratorial [TS]

01:03:09   meets cocoon that's how you pick uh [TS]

01:03:11   that's why they're making it i think [TS]

01:03:13   it's because somebody said hey remember [TS]

01:03:15   that cocoon not amici wilford brimley [TS]

01:03:20   could do that with guns [TS]

01:03:21   that's right yeah actually if you just [TS]

01:03:24   given them all guns in that movie I [TS]

01:03:26   might have watched that you know the [TS]

01:03:28   best [TS]

01:03:28   speaking of movies made it our books [TS]

01:03:30   into movies the firm [TS]

01:03:32   I you know I'm not going to say anything [TS]

01:03:33   positive about the movie or the book [TS]

01:03:35   other than to say that in the firm [TS]

01:03:36   wilford brimley is kicked to death by [TS]

01:03:38   Tom Cruise kicked to death [TS]

01:03:42   it's the right thing to do and it takes [TS]

01:03:44   you way to do it is just up and on that [TS]

01:03:48   note thank you everybody for joining me [TS]

01:03:50   on this on this exciting podcast about [TS]

01:03:53   movies and books and how they hate each [TS]

01:03:55   other must fight to the death or [TS]

01:03:56   something like that [TS]

01:03:58   Scott McNulty thank you thank you i [TS]

01:04:00   think the the book was better than this [TS]

01:04:02   pocket [TS]

01:04:03   alright John siracusa thank you thank [TS]

01:04:05   you Jason had more'n thank you for [TS]

01:04:07   bringing your deep knowledge of Hudson [TS]

01:04:11   Hawk novel say thank you Jason thanks [TS]

01:04:13   for listening to [TS]

01:04:14   upper bowl you are you impressed us with [TS]

01:04:17   your 42 stick until next time goodnight [TS]

01:04:21   [Music] [TS]

01:04:26   and on that note i'm kicking to death at [TS]

01:04:29   wilford brimley in the firm based on the [TS]

01:04:32   fine John Grisham novel i have the same [TS]

01:04:34   area the novelization not the actual [TS]

01:04:36   novel you read the novelization [TS]

01:04:38   excellent access by will forever haunt [TS]

01:04:41   ya [TS]

01:04:42   Oh audiofly were fairly and in the novel [TS]

01:04:47   with the wilford brimley character he [TS]

01:04:50   kicks the Tom Cruise current you did not [TS]

01:04:52   yeah there's a little uh they change it [TS]

01:04:56   up like a continuity error strange very [TS]

01:04:59   strange the novelization of the [TS]

01:05:02   audiobook of the novelization of the [TS]

01:05:03   movie of the novel fire was excellent i [TS]

01:05:07   I'm actually not planning on listening [TS]

01:05:09   to this podcast instant-read [TS]

01:05:11   novelization actually that would be [TS]

01:05:12   great i'd love to see a novelization of [TS]

01:05:14   this podcast oh you warded that oil for [TS]

01:05:17   this one night last week there's no plot [TS]

01:05:19   where it went well there's that there's [TS]

01:05:21   a hole through line about about Scott [TS]

01:05:24   and the Scientologists true and when [TS]

01:05:26   when parents Anthony writes it it'll [TS]

01:05:29   just leap up it's like he's actually the [TS]

01:05:32   more like the davinci cojiro peers and [TS]

01:05:35   he's going to mobilize the entire series [TS]

01:05:37   of podcast episodes we've done and the [TS]

01:05:39   first one will be really good and then [TS]

01:05:40   after that it's just gonna be the same [TS]

01:05:41   one over and over again podcast get the [TS]

01:05:44   audiobook of the podcast that's the best [TS]

01:05:45   one the audiobook of the pot [TS]

01:05:46   novelization of the podcast that [TS]

01:05:48   dramatic reading of the incomparable [TS]

01:05:51   podcast who would be our reader Stephen [TS]

01:05:54   Freeman who I like that nipsey Russell [TS]