The Incomparable

00:00:00 ◼   ► the incomparable podcast number 82 [TS]

00:00:08 ◼   ► Morris went well [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► welcome back to the uncomfortable [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► podcast we are so glad to have you join [TS]

00:00:16 ◼   ► us because quite frankly we're all quite [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► depressed because we read lots of books [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► about the end of the world [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► i'm your host Jason snow this is a new [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► addition of our book club and our [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► primary book club selection today is a [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► short story collection by maureen McHugh [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► called after the apocalypse [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► it's a collection of looks like nine [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► maybe short stories that generally [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► involve horrible things happening to the [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► world and society 10 shorts and short [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► stories and nice even ten involving [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► miserable things happening too miserable [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► people and then to throw in other things [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► we'll talk about other kind of [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► apocalyptic end of the world kind of [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► literature as we go [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► joining me on this most up with people [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► of podcasts Lisa Schmeisser hi Lisa [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► hi there also scott McNulty hi Scott [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► hello is the world still there where you [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► are well I who knows [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► Philadelphia you can never tell that's [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► pretty much the end of the world anyway [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► and John siracusa hai jaan i find the [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► end of the world exhilarating maybe only [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► one huh [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► that's because you hate everything I [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► don't know maybe they could be it [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► ok it's possible that this one possible [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► scenario so I can't even remember who [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► recommended this book because I'm yeah [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► who recommended this is elisa should we [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► blame Lisa or is it Scott [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► whoo-hoo see it's already I society I [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► societies already deteriorated is [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► already crumbling yeah we're turning on [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► each other that's the message and all of [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► these you're all alone no one likes you [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► you're gonna die up it may have been me [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► alright because I second it with them [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► all right thinking train because i had [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► first heard of marine McHugh through an [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► anthology I got one of the micros McCall [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► edit anthologies called alternate [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► tyrants and the story the caps off that [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► apology is called Lincoln trained by [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► mari mchugh and without giving anything [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► away the story in the premise is that [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► Lincoln survived the assassination but [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► there are group of people were basically [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► acting as president in his stead [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► since obviously you don't just bounce [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► back from a bullet to the brain and one [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► of their bread ideas is to round up with [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► a call recalcitrant southerners and then [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► pack them on trains and send them out to [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► encampments in Indian country and the [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► story Lincoln train is about the [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► experience of one so-called recalcitrant [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► Southerners who can't understand why [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► this is happening to her and it goes [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► over the events of what happens when the [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► people who used to be your countrymen [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► and where your enemy combatants have the [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► upper hand in this in a bad situation [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► so anyway that has nothing to do with [TS]

00:02:56 ◼   ► this book you know if it's not that [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► sounds terrible it's kind of an upbeat [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► story for her [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► yeah i was going to say it sounds music [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► down she's a little bit of a little bit [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► of a downer the enumerated this is this [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► is after the apocalypse the short story [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► collection this is sort of the theme and [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► and I think that they were the stories [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► were chosen I assume that not every [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► story she writes about the end of the [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► world and not all these stories were [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► really about the end of the world but [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► they are all you know what's it let's [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► let's tackle we pick this election i [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► went back and read her first collection [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► which is mothers and other monsters and [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► what do people do with everybody laughs [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► nervously and and this is just I i think [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► one of the big themes in her work is we [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► are all selfish we are all alone we will [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► never have to understand your connection [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► with another human being and like as [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► long as you understand that going into [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► her stories there's a lot to appreciate [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► just don't ever read them when you're in [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► a bad mood or despairing over the state [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► of humanity into everybody have a good [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► time [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► yeah and i will say i record I i got [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► this book because I'm always fascinated [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► when a genre books kind of crossover [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► into mainstream and people are talking [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► like people who don't normally talk [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► about drama books are talking about it [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► and after the apocalypse was one of [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► these things that like you know the New [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► York Times Book Review people were [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► writing about it and so intrigued me [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► yeah and so there you go that's why [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► funny how that didn't happen with let's [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► say I don't know Harry Potter they found [TS]

00:04:26 ◼   ► crossing over into the mainstream should [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► repeal you internet service a warning to [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► park there [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► exactly thats that's the wrong kind of [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► Main Street now so in this book we have [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► we have we have a zombie apocalypse we [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► have anything that story by the way we [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► have a I'm gonna let me run down here we [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► have a zombie apocalypse we have an [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► unstated economic apocalypse we have a [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► dirty bomb apocalypse we have an [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► artificial intelligence not really an [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► apocalypse but an emergence we have a [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► medical experiment gone awry but not [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► really an apocalypse we have a chicken [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► nugget apocalypse we have an unstated [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► apocalypse and then there are some [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► people who fly right that's basically [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► what we've got here i'm not question was [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► a flying people have to do with anything [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► are they in an apocalypse there are [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► flying people but wonder if it comes [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► down to the breakdown of emotional [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► equilibrium and reality [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► yeah yeahs because i think the theme [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► that goes through all of these books is [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► these every every single one is about [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► people who have survived an event that [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► has completely altered their worldview [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► and and their frame of reference because [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► in the effect of centrifugal forces [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► which is about the prion disease that [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► that's passed on through the chicken [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► mcnuggets there she really doesn't spend [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► a whole lot of time on the most horrific [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► aspect of the story which is that [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► anybody who's ever eaten chicken [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► mcnugget get this disease and for me I [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► thought that the worst part of the story [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► was you have this poor fourteen-year-old [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► kid who is losing her mother and she has [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► nobody it and she cheat literally feels [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► like the best thing she can possibly do [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► in her life is set fire to her house [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► which he does [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► yeah yeah [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► right she's what she's she's got her her [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► to moms and they've split up and her one [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► mom who's not her biological mom she [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► calls from moms is is a is junkie with a [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► new boyfriend who's kind of shifty and [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► then her mom who stable has Alice as her [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► new partner and but her mom has the [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► chicken nugget disease and is dying and [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► and Alice a hoarder exact analysis a [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► hoarder yes yes yes don't forget that it [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► just to throw that in there there's also [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► supporting this chicken nugget [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► apocalypse and hoarding exactly well i [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► think because she wants every all she [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► wants the main character to be as [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► uncomfortable as possible so you can [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► even there's no like home is not your [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► sanctuary because they your mothers die [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► and be it's full of somebody's other [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► crap and you can't get comfortable on [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► Alice Alice's being very supportive of [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► her mother but Alice doesn't provide [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► because she's a hoarder I mean that the [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► home is no longer really a comfort for [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► her and then her other her other mom is [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► not really much of an option either it's [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► really kind of Miss report story on any [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► personal you've got that nice coupling [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► of personal misery with complete [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► societal misery because because there's [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► a fatalism right that wasn't what [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► everyone is eating chicken mcnugget on [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► the disease is going to hit that's it [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► five years to incubate her junkie mom's [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► boyfriend basically since we could you [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► know we could all be dead but there's no [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► way to know until we get symptoms and [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► there's no test and so every the whole [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► society is degrading mostly out of [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► fatalism right because you everybody [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► could be dying it's fun fishing and [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► irene and irene and Franny should get [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► together and perhaps participate in some [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► sort of competition in which they have [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► to kill each other and the woods [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► horrifying Hunger Games but ya know if [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► for example in that story the apocalypse [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► isn't about that the the prion disease [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► because that's just a fact of life like [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► radiation poisoning or anything else [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► that can kill you the apocalypse is this [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► woman's mother that this young girl's [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► mother dying and her literally having [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► nobody who's willing to step up and take [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► care of her and and I I thought that was [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► something that make you doesn't a lot of [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► the stories is the the so-called [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► apocalypse isn't necessarily the [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► precipitating event like the bird flu [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► especially economics what it is is the [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► event that causes somebody to say okay [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► life as I know it is over [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► here's what comes next you know [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► especially economics it's the [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► realization is the main characters [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► realization that she's effectively sold [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► herself into wage slavery four-by-four [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► for a biotech factory in the kingdom of [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► the blind that's when she realizes that [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► she's dealing with it with a sentient AI [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► and standing up for that a is going to [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► end her career as an IT troubleshooter [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► you know things like that that these [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► so-called catastrophic events are are [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► are basically background noise and most [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► of these stories they're all personal [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► apocalypses exactly yeah yeah which is [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► why I thought it was kind of weird that [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► you left off with the naturalist because [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► Starbase well okay so so here's what I'm [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► struggling to say is on a prison camp [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► some beer some can always yes what the [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► lead character effectively does he gets [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► curious enough about zombies to start [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► wailing his federal prisoners and using [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► them as lab rats in his experiments but [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► you read this and you kind of see the [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► spirit of 19th century naturalist in it [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► you know he's almost like an Audubon of [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► the zombie world and so was i was trying [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► to figure out where his apocalyptic [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► moment came from I guess basically he [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► doesn't have one [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► you know he's already living in it he is [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► he's the master of the the zombie you [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► know well federal prison right and then [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► they close them and that's his [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► apocalypse is leaving the zombie [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► reservation and going back to with [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► regular people and so now his call his [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► skills are meaningless because he had [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► kids he was building up quite a little [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► in mutual of omaha presents some [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► portfolio on the behavior of zombie the [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► main character in The Naturalist he has [TS]

00:10:00 ◼   ► that turn where he where he begins to [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► set out to study the zombies and there's [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► that moment where he realizes i'm going [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► to kill my fellow prisoners or more [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► disabled them and let the zombies kill [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► them in order to learn more about them [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► for science [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► yeah which is here which is that which [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► you know it is a prison he's a criminal [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► in a prison right so it's like bro i [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► guess you know that so that and it's [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► pretty evident that these guys are [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► killing each other into [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► my eyes anyway right you know they set [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► up in the beginning we have that whole [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► backdrop of you know that had that the [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► society has has degraded to the point [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► because of the zombie apocalypse that [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► they just said Cleveland put just zombie [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► prisoners in their throat Linda's ami [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► preserve and then for some reason they [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► started throwing in prisoners into the [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► preserve then she never makes that [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► reason clear and then there's like this [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► throw line at the end of the story about [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► how the Supreme Court has ruled [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► unconstitutional of presidents been [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► impeached and if i may be frank that was [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► actually the part I found the most [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► unrealistic because seriously like when [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► have you known anybody in Washington to [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► take any capability for any gross [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► violation of human rights by the federal [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► government [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► well after the zombie apocalypse Lisa's [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► yeah it's a new age of personal [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► responses Dombey lobbying Samaritans [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► there's going to be a zombie lobby where [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► they probably have like zombie junkets [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► we can go shoot zombies and dick cheney [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► sheets when the face i mean that's [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► that's where we're going with this [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► I did like in The Naturalist i like i [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► like the idea that that that seems [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► realistic to me i guess this is what you [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► were saying that society would would [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► react to something like a zombie [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► apocalypse in that way of saying well [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► you know we are going to just toss the [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► criminals in with the zombies because we [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► don't we don't care right everybody [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► might as well be zombies or zombie food [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► because they're there they're criminals [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► and and so we're just gonna throw them [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► away [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► it solves two problems at once i right [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► am within that then they're there is as [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► there are in our prisons today there is [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► this kind of culture that grows up [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► there's a guy who's kind of like the [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► leader but then this guy breaks away and [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► goes out into the city and begins his [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► studies and and begins capturing [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► prisoners and and using them in his in [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► his zombie studies that you think he was [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► actually interested in science I think [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► he was interested in surviving think he [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► was curious about what about what the [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► rules of the zombies were I guess I put [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► it that way because once he saw that [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► zombie in the tin foil lined dumpster [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► he was like what is the deal that was [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► the Dalton actually that was that was a [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► brilliant little moment right it's like [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► why does the zombie have a like a little [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► sun bowl that he lives he wants to be [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► warm and then he let me hear that one [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► more is like on the fire escape and he [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► realizes the zombies don't look up then [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► he's [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► curious right he's got some curiosity [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► I'm not sure yet that he was really [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► doing doing it for science but i do [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► think that he had some curiosity and [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► then had no problem basically killing [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► people because i was the key trait that [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► I saw him was that he was nuts because [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► he wasn't he wasn't really insane but at [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► and the reader is interested in the [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► zombies but he's a survivor and he was [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► like huh [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► like you know the same way you might be [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► like what kind of bird that is he's [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► thinking that while he sacrificing like [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► this guy that he's tricked into you know [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► killing people is pretty nonchalant [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► about well he's got this whole list of [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► questions about how they behave and so [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► part of it was I need to answer these [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► questions so I know what I what I can do [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► without getting myself killed by zombies [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► but by the end of it when he starts [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► seeing the zombies rhythmically bobbing [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► their heads after eating and he notices [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► that it's like a communication behavior [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► that's what I think something shifts in [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► his brain and that's why the story ends [TS]

00:13:37 ◼   ► with him knowing that he would have [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► liked to have set one last fire for the [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► zombies that's him i would like to find [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► like his scientific curiosity does gets [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► parked right at the point where it gets [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► picked up but he's gonna be a world's [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► foremost expert on zombies now right i [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► mean he'll be he'll be family may have [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► this personal apocalypse Scott but you [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► also get I got the sense that he he [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► might be kind of famous like a media [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► because he gets it gets interviewed and [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► yeah and-and-and the pictures of him as [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► he's removed from the from the from [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► cleveland on her are all over the news [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► and that you know the and that struck me [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► as kind of funny to that this guy who [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► just killed all of these people and [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► nobody knows or cares about it he's [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► going to end up being hailed as a [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► survivor and and maybe ultimately as [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► somebody who's an expert on on how the [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► zombies behave but I got the sense that [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► he did not care for his fellow man he [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► would kill them so easily and he was [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► really really interested in the zombies [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► so they took away from the one thing he [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► was interested in and I don't think it's [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► going to end well for him i don't know i [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► think i'll become like David [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► Attenborough of [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► I'll be like little leading at you know [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► expeditions into cleveland or maybe what [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► you'll do is he'll he'll redirect that [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► energy into killing people for for [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► another yeah because just going to kill [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► back different reasons yeah we'll find [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► another reason to do it he'll you know [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► he'll find help frame another [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► investigative question and go back to [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► killing people in some way so we should [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► talk a little bit about uh about useless [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► things which is another story in this [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► collection which is about a sculptor a [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► woman in the southwest to makes these [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► creepy uh living dolls they're like [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► newborn newborn and all replicas and she [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► makes makes them for people over the [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► internet and and there's basically a [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► gradual economic apocalypse that's [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► happening that comes with a lot of her [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► stories where where the gulf between the [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► haves and have-nots just gotten so big [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► that people are are falling off of the [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► edge into the Gulf yeah i'm clearly [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► that's her that's the world you in na [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► post Great Recession kind of environment [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► that would seem to be a fairly [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► straightforward reasonable extrapolation [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► to say that you know this is not going [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► to get better it's going to keep getting [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► worse people are going to get pulled [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► apart it's gonna be this gradual [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► apocalypse which I find actually in some [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► ways more realistic and and more [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► terrifying than the kind of sudden [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► apocalypse so it's like what if they're [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► suddenly we're zombies or what if there [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► was a horrible bomb that exploded in [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► irradiated Maryland yeah and and much [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► worse to have it just be things just [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► kept getting worse and and worse and [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► worse until everybody you know lost [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► their jobs and and waiting to make your [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► writing a college yeah you need you know [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► you're filled with obsolete during your [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► lifetime something like that which is [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► horrifying but I this is it was kind of [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► a i found a kind of a bizarre story and [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► i liked at something that happens in [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► that story and also in a couple of the [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► others it definitely one of her one of [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► the accused of motifs here is the [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► American attitude that poor hungry [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► people are from somewhere else [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► yes and there's a there's an actual line [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► in one of these stories I'm trying to [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► remember which one might be after the [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► apocalypse where where that somebody [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► basically said [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► as you know where Americans you know or [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► not we're not hungry homeless refugees [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► don't use the word refugee but it's a [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► lot yeah that's the last time yeah [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► what's up with the convoy and she's [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► horrified by yeah and in in in useless [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► things it's theirs [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► she makes a similar observation about [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► the the migrants who are coming by and [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► doing some you know doing some work in [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► her garden before they move along that [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► there's definitely that feeling that you [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► know just because you've gotten [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► comfortable being in a wealthy country [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► doesn't make you any different as a [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► person and any more subject to you know [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► terrible economic conditions then [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► somebody who's in Africa or in you know [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► in anywhere any other poor part of the [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► world must plus then she turns to making [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► sex toys return to make sex toys because [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► Justin their property taxes gonna be [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► exactly going to make somebody creepy [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► creepy [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► so what there's a weird part of that [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► story where it turns out that that she's [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► making his living dolls for this couple [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► and it turns out that it's just the guy [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► who's using them and he's using numbers [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► like a pickup and pick-up line why I'm [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► grieving my dead child and presumably [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► that that gets him a pity role and and [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► again and on it goes from there it's [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► just so so strange whole that whole [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► story so strange it is a strange story [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► well I i think what it also points out [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► is is artist kind of a commodity of a [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► stable society where where people feel [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► comfortable spending money because no [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► doubt they got in and one of the things [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► is the guy who ordered the dolls clearly [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► doesn't appreciate the art in the effort [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► that goes into him and as an artist you [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► can't make a living when the world was [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► crumbling apart you know the artist one [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► of the first casualties of of any [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► apocalypse [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► so you doing thing turned to other [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► methods right that's got it was just yep [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► that's the risk you don't really care [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► for that story let's just gotta tell [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► it's a scary moment to where she goes [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► over to to get her dog girl your dog's [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► been found you a relatively nice guy and [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► his like son and his friends are [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► man out of the desert riding their their [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► bikes or whatever it is they're there [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► for this their motorbikes and he is [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► underdone mom and he basically says just [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► don't even look at them don't talk to [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► them just get in your truck and drive [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► away and you get the sense that although [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► these older people are kind of trying to [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► hold with having some sort of society [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► that everybody below a certain age [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► pretty much is just completely lawless [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► and scary and and and dangerous and [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► horrible [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► oh yeah there's a there's a lot of that [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► story actually I'm where it's the [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► parents of the girl who's pregnant my [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► camera that Cheryl's your name Cynthia [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► but they mention that the inside the [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► house it was like a flashback to 20 [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► years ago because they have this working [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► flat screen TV and it's air-conditioned [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► the surfaces are all cleaning the [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► refrigerator is packed and there's a [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► line in there about how these people [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► still regarded thoughtful liberalism is [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► their birthright and the narrator had [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► two until she realized it was her [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► generations burden to be born in [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► interesting times and it was just it was [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► just a really nice really scraping [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► throwaway Sherry's name of the woman i'm [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► looking it up now [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► oh i thought this life of thought that [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► here's the one I thought this life of [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► thoughtful liberalism was my birthright [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► before I understood my generation was to [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► be born in interesting times and it [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► points out that like you said you know [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► for older it if it could be seen almost [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► as a veiled indictment of say the baby [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► boomers who are you know certainly [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► pretty comfortable with their paid for [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► houses and the jobs they refuse to [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► retire from well in younger generations [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► you've got crazy high rates of [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► unemployment and people are questioning [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► the need to build families in [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► traditional two-parent family structures [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► and and things like that you know it's [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► it's just this huge social gulf between [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► older generations and younger [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► generations thanks the actions of one [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► generation and not necessarily the [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► younger one now so uh John what did you [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► think of the the kingdom of the blind [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► yarra you're a technology guy and a [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► computer and a programmer that that that [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► was I thought interesting in that it was [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► trying to portray not not so much the [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► end of the world but at an emergence of [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► computer intelligence which I thought [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► was an interesting attempt to say it's [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► not going to be like [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► you know it if there's an artificial [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► intelligence that kind of emerges it's [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► not going to be like what you would [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► think from a movie or a TV show it's [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► going to be weird and hard to understand [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► the people aren't going to really get it [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► did that did that work for you or did it [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► not work for you it the closer she got [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► to trying to explain what was actually [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► going on the worst things got so she [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► should not have tried to talk about [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► summer teenies or the actual work that [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► the programmers were doing anything like [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► that the actual activities of the Dai in [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► terms of rolling the lights and taking [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► data input like in broad strokes that's [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► fine everything works and is an [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► interesting idea [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► yeah i thought that was cool it's like [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► what's what the hell's going on and it's [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► only later they have get that she should [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► have her got a consultant in there [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► because there are systems where there [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► are complicated enough that and have so [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► many different inputs that is difficult [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► to for someone to wrap their head around [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► but the way she described them is not [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► really doesn't have any basis in [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► anything I you know it's like she got [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► some like a cobol programmer from 1960 [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► to talk to our and then like one time [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► she wrote 10 print hello 22 yeah I was [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► gonna say syntax error in 30 and then [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► the lights went out in the basic program [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► is alive but that's just because i'm [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► going to a computer nerd i bet other [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► other people probably thought it was too [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► esoteric so that I think there was the [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► seed of a good short story in there [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► I'm just glad that in that story the [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► female was not sexually menaced which is [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► a rarity for this short story collection [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► and I suppose there is manager there is [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► menacing route before we leave this [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► behind i wanted to touch on the last [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► story before we as a transition but [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► before we do that it is there something [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► anything left that you observations [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► about this in general about this [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► collection that that that you guys would [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► want to make I I it was fat it was short [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► i read it very fast it was short and [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► some of the stories i thought oh that [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► was really interesting because i like [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► sci-fi short stories and others i was [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► like huh you know so it was it what [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► about the flying bag for me no way [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► people fly in my room I live alone [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► they feel away because they needed to [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► get on a boat so they were slightly [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► closer to France friends I like that [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► story that was the 1i connected with the [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► least I liked it so much because it [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► makes absolutely no sense it's okay it [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► does make some kind of sense depending [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► on what you assume the premises it and [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► so it explain please [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► well I don't know what do you have what [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► is you worry each of your takes on on [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► that story is there something that some [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► sort of backstory that you can come up [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► with it makes the story start to make [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► some kind of sense [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► no nothing it's almost like a mental [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► contagion that people got some sort of [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► mimetic virus is the only thing i can [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► think of it was it was like in 24-hour [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► flu only with a dumb idea I i figured [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► it's like they're like super people and [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► the super people are going to go to [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► France and we had come in contact with [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► the super people you get kind of like [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► for hot up into the the wanting to go to [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► France and being with the super people [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► like they rub off on you yeah you would [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► go to superheroes like that that [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► probably place you just give some yeah I [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► know soon as you see flying could be [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► great to I went to of course the very [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► ending of the thing where he's talking [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► about the seeing somebody someone [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► running in front of an SUV or something [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► and and like time sort of stops and the [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► running person had one foot off the [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► ground but his left foot wiggle back and [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► forth on his ankle [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► it's like you they're all in a [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► simulation in the simulation is pause [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► but it's glitching back and forth from [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► you know frame 2720 27-28 that type of [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► things like to I saw it all as a virtual [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► reality thing where they're all in a [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► simulation and the simulation is [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► breaking down and everyone going to [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► France it means the title it's like [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► something you from prison for something [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► while I don't need to go to France and [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► some some sort of virtual reality based [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► reasoning that makes sense within the [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► game world but everything's all messed [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► up and since they're this is how would [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► be like if you thought the game world [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► was the real world and it was getting [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► all confused you know sooner or later we [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► all go to France [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► yeah and the imagery at the end people [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► flying works in virtual world in the [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► imagery the end it was too i was it was [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► strangely described i think it was [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► trying to get to that you know [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► pause jumping back and forth between [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► frames kind of glitch so [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► but I mean I I thought that was the most [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► interesting of the stories also yes the [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► it holds together the least but at least [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► let me at least let me fill in something [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► and decide what I think nice right [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► so overall overall what's what's what's [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► your take on this collection Scott what [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► do you think well I I'm just a small by [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► the way it is my fault and I'm okay with [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► that because I enjoyed it i thought they [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► were they were very interesting stories [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► the last story of course incredibly [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► depressing but overall it was worth you [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► know that was that was not good but in a [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► good way it was and what is it was a [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► bittersweet but not really speed also [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► it's just been a yeah I was gonna say [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► where the sweet medic [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► I don't like kids so you know I just [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► but overall I enjoyed it i thought as [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► well written [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► interesting i like the fact that the [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► apocalypse over the apocalypses weren't [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► really the focus of the stories they [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► were just kind of a set into motion [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► other things so it wasn't like you oh [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► look there's zombies [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► let's run away but that you know she was [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► thinking about what would happen in and [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► kind of make them more personal look [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► there's zombies let's kill other people [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► and use them to test the zombies and you [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► know about the zombies exactly but there [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► are only want one zombie story which was [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► good right [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► that is a relief Lisa what about you [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► what do you think of the collection [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► well depressing as hell but yeah you [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► know when I got my first take on it [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► I couldn't stop thinking about the [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► stories and what I liked about them was [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► how they were really well-drawn [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► character studies because many of these [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► people are people you would want to talk [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► to or know or be friends with but you do [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► find themselves kind of understanding [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► them and even feeling a little bit [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► sympathetic for them and I think that's [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► the sign of a good writer where she can [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► make someone comprehensible and [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► relatable to you even if there's nothing [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► in your experiences that that you have [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► in common and i think that one of the [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► accused strength is she writes about [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► working-class people and folks who are [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► on the economic edge in a way that a lot [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► of sci-fi authors don't do it for [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► example if you read John barley he [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► touches on a similar theme but his [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► people are almost always insane [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► resourceful and they happen to be oh i [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► don't know like Motel clerks who are [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► also rocket scientist to spare time and [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► they have an uncle who's a survivalist [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► so they'll be fine no matter what or [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► they'll be William Gibson where there's [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► some eccentric Japanese billionaire who [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► hands of an AI box and next thing you [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► know they're in a world of gilded [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► privilege and this is the exact opposite [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► of that and the only other author i can [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► think of who does something similar is [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► Nancy crest who also talks about what [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► it's like to be an extra on the world [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► stage of history when these bright and [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► shiny privileged people are doing things [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► that does that do in the world as we [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► know it so I I think it's a really [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► valuable contribution and I'm going to [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► continue seeking out her work but i'm [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► going to have to make sure i'm in a [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► really good mental place before I don't [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► because you will be afterwards [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► John what do you thank you you are you [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► don't read a lot of stuff because you're [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► not a high-volume reader this was short [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► yeah i like the fact that was short and [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► I do read a lot of short story [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► collections and i usually have queued up [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► those a year's best fantasy and cyclic [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► ends for many years past me that you [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► know like I haven't read them all so I [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► read i'll read them from like 2001 if I [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► have no just go back and those [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► collections have kind of spoiled me for [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► collections like this because they those [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► are by different authors so if you don't [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► like one author you want a different [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► taste you know the next door is going to [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► be different and be i think the take to [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► get into those collections that usually [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► they want you to have either a really [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► interesting premise especially for the [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► the syfy ones or a really tight little [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► narrative and these stories don't really [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► have the premises are not that [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► interesting like the one of these movie [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► stand alone on their premises and the [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► narratives are definitely not beginning [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► middle and tight little short stories a [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► business theme running through all of [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► them and I kind of like a a a picture [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► that she wants to paint but there's just [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► this is the sameness after a while after [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► eight or nine stories are I think you [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► could have gotten away with like three [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► of these and then had [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► another author do the other you know six [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► or seven how many even are there and [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► this thing that the ss10 especially [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► economics is actually in the year's best [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► science fiction collection I'd read it [TS]

00:30:11 ◼   ► before and that one actually seems to be [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► some sort of structurally the most like [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► those kinds of stories and that it's [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► tighter it's got the the bird flu [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► apocalypse but it's also about you know [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► Chinese labor conditions and and they've [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► got the you know she gets a fab phone [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► and so it's definitely in the in the [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► future but you know and that they meet [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► the guy who who have wants to steal [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► their their bio electronic box and all [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► that that seems like an interesting kind [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► of slice of future extrapolation that's [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► much more like the kind of stories that [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► I expect to see in those collections [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► than some of these other pieces which [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► are much more kind of a bleak and odd [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► but I'm looking for out of Adam short [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► story collection i want more likeable [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► characters or more interesting premises [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► or more variety so this kind of was like [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► black to me more of the same yeah [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► everybody dies so so yeah I mean [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► thatthat's I I sort of feel that way to [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► it is that it's tough being used to [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► having a kind of very short story diet [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► to have these be all variations on a [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► theme and I can definitely see their [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► various variations on a theme but ya [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► didn't really do it for me I'm glad I'm [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► glad it was short it certainly they were [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► I didn't feel like I was struggling to [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► read them but it didn't really it didn't [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► really throw me what I what I actually [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► liked you know I i will remember the [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► naturalist because it is kind of an [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► interesting idea of these the zombie [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► prison that's collective a nice [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► different kind of take on zombies that [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► will just throw the president the [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► zombies and see what happens and and [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► after the apocalypse the reason I the [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► last story which appears only I believe [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► in this collection and as in the [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► collections name for it [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► the reason I wanted to use that as a [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► segue is that it it seemed to me to [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► almost be a a conscious reference to the [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► road by cormac mccarthy in that that [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► does everything exactly the opposite [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► yeah it's an inversion right so it's but [TS]

00:32:13 ◼   ► it's it's it's a mother and daughter [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► instead [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► father and son they're still apocalypse [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► although it's not as as utterly [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► apocalyptic as as in the McCarthy novel [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► but I one of the things that I love I [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► mean them so the road dark i have all of [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► you read the road have no Scott because [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► I I i had no rights so I fell and John [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► has the why I'm okay with being spoiled [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► on without so feel free [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► well let me as a road and into the world [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► it's bleak and it's bleak yes indeed [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► deep dark and i love it i is one of the [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► best books I've ever read [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► I I it is one of my favorites it is [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► super dark but I'm okay with that [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► I I feel like I actually have a problem [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► with a lot of these apocalypse stories [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► because I feel like they don't really [TS]

00:33:03 ◼   ► that their their their fantasies that [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► they imagine a level of the society [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► holding itself together and people being [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► decent that I don't believe would [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► actually be the case I actually believed [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► it would be far more horrific than most [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► of these especially in movies and TV [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► shows you see like The Walking Dead is a [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► good example is like The Walking Dead is [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► too gentle [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► I think it's too easy it would be much [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► more brutal and horrible and they [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► probably don't want to show that so the [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► road [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► father and son just like mother and [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► daughter in that last story the big [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► difference is it the road [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► despite all of its bleakness it's about [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► it's about a parent's love for their [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► child and unconditional love and wanted [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► to protect their child that's what it's [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► about it it I that's why I find it so [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► moving even with everything else taken [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► out of the world it's about that after [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► the apocalypse the story is inverted not [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► only because its mother and daughter but [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► because it's the mother just doesn't [TS]

00:33:59 ◼   ► really she's annoyed by her daughter and [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► doesn't really care and abandons her [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► that's just what I didn't even bleaker [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► view then the road though because you're [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► saying yeah this is brewed were also [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► selfish that yeah well this was this was [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► a selfish woman you could tell before [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► the apocalypse she was not a great you [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► know like I boarded the first one the [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► second one you know it's stubborn had it [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► but then you tips [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► this is the show you all yeah this was a [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► bad mother before the apocalypse and [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► after what a surprise she continues to [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► be a bad [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► listen to me i was amazing she was is at [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► stuck with her daughter for as long as [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► she did but when we need her she's [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► complaining about her daughter but [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► you're right so in that way it is bleep [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► horrible justification she makes where [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► she's like I ran away from home for the [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► first time when I was just yeah [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► overnight was my mind and I'm thinking [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► yeah I'm gonna get you know you read [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► away the stable a country where you [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► didn't have refugee camps and you're [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► abandoning this child to a stranger you [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► know it was right where some in the road [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► you know there is nothing there is [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► nothing left and the only thing there is [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► that the father is taking care of of the [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► son of his child no it's completely yes [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► everything else is broken down [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► completely like everything like [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► photosynthesis has broken nothing and [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► everything is dangerous and everybody's [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► cold and miserable and it's just yeah [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► yeah very different than this where it's [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► like oh there might be a scary person [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► house ok let's run over fine now [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► yeah right i want to bring up the road [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► because i think that that when i was [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► reading the this collection that was the [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► the book that came back to me is I think [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► a a great exploration of that end of the [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► world feeling and that if I had to pick [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► a favorite on this topic that would [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► certainly be it not only like I said not [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► only because yes i am i find it really [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► touching that in the midst of all this [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► darkness it really is about a father a [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► loving his son and Cormac McCarthy [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► dedicated the book to his son but that [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► it also i thought was a real a really [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► accurate [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► I don't know I to me seemed believable [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► poor trail of just how awful and [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► miserable people would be put in a [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► circumstance like that its unflinching [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► and saying people with your horrible [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► things they will kill each other they [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► will each other they will farm each [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► other they will do they will do anything [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► to survive and you know don't pretend [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► that that it wouldn't come to that if it [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► had to which is really depressing but i [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► think it's true it's also much better [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► writer I think I mean but what he does [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► in that book of the way his weird style [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► that he has and how its describing [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► situation no commas and very few and no [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► quotes [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► one explanation marks reading other [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► stories that are steps that are similar [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► premise where people are like on the [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► road like those them in that after the [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► apocalypse they're traveling why they [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► traveling well what else you gonna do [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► you gotta go somewhere because you think [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► so everything's better than anywhere [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► else [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► everything's better in Canada yeah and [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► and you know they're just describing [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► everything that goes on and the the [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► discussions between a mother and a child [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► crying McCarthy makes it look so easy [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► where he is going to use quotation marks [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► and it's it's it's amazing the stuff [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► that he gets across in that book in such [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► a small amount of time that other [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► authors ramble on and on trying to [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► express what he expresses in like the [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► exchange of seven unquoted things that [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► we think might be said but possibly also [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► thought that was a real you know he's a [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► great writer so that's that's a level [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► above when I like one great writers take [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► on a topic that is nerdy you know like [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► the end of the world or something [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► because you get the best of both worlds [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► yeah yeah Scott you read the road where [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► you'd thoroughly depressed her I i read [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► the road immediately after i read it [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► after the apocalypse [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► oh my was Oh further depressed arm [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► I'm glad you're still with us come out [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► now it's all gonna be over [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► no I mean you know it's hard to prepare [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► anything to Cormac McCarthy oh because [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► it's jon said he's such a brilliant [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► writer that I think any book about the [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► apocalypse compared to the road will [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► suffer greatly because he's a genius and [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► very few people are a Maureen with you [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► is a fine writer but she is not as good [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► a writer as he is so he takes something [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► that is a fairly cliché kind of premise [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► right if you make something that is [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► beautiful and special and amazing where [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► she takes some interesting premises and [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► make some interesting stories there's [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► nothing wrong with that but it's just a [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► whole different level of writing is [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► going on right so you like the roads i [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► didn't realize that was a new read for [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► yourself it was because I i bought it [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► many years ago and I read like 20 pages [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► of it and I said this is way too [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► depressing and I picked it up again when [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► after i read after the apocalypse and I [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► thought well maybe it gets better at the [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► and uh i don't know i don't want to [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► spoil the ending was earlier for Lisa [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► but i would have if she wasn't I would [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► have discussed but your ball thought of [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► the ending and what was actually I no [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► please I'm i have no plans to read it [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► alright because this is this is horrible [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► because this is one of the side effects [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► of parenthood that no one warned me [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► about which is that after you have your [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► after I had my child I really can't [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► handle child in parallel stories I I [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► can't handle stories where children lose [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► their parents or parents lose their kids [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► it's just this guy i read i read the [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► road after i had kids and I i felt i [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► understood and appreciated more because [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► it spoke I i agree there's a lot of [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► cheap child in peril stuff that I I [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► can't take anymore and actually I hate [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► it now because I I know how cheap it is [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► and and I didn't feel that way with the [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► road the road to me spoke of a feeling i [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► would get this feeling just walking [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► around with my kids and their be [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► somebody coming the other way and we'd [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► be like on an overpass over freeway and [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► I think if this person tries to do [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► something to me I will kill them because [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► i have my children right [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► I am so yeah I I just I've had that [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► moment a few times where it's like I [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► will do anything to protect my children [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► and the road it in a better way I think [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► that any other piece of art I've ever [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► seen it speaks to that feeling that that [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► just final visceral feeling that I will [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► do anything I can for my children now at [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► the end of the road [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► I know the father of the father finally [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► succumbs to whatever terrible elements [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► and he gets hurt in the side he gets [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► shot or pierced by and he was going to [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► die from long island anyway [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► yeah we guys he dies at the end he tells [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► lies [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► yeah and then but there's the man on the [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► beach or whatever goes over to the Sun [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► and says you know come with us and so [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► the question the end of the book is is [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► that guy on the up-and-up or is the Sun [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► going to be tomorrow night's dinner [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► right because they've got it sits him [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► and a woman and two kids [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► yeah so that they you know in theory [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► their family but you know and he and he [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► said well it goes far enough that he [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► talks about how the woman talks a lot [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► about god and he doesn't really talk to [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► God but he he's gonna ask her first okay [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► that he can talk to his dad who's dead [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► but he's going to talk to him [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► and see there there is that it is [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► hopeful and ending as you're ever going [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► to get out of that book was the thing is [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► a setup and all the things that had [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► happened during the course of the book [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► set you up to understand that things are [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► not what they seem and that everything [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► you think is normal is not so when [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► you're presented with this at the end [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► there's no way you you're put into the [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► shoes of the kid and you're like you [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► know don't believe it kid and you [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► haven't you been paying attention for [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► the past 200 pages you know dont thats [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► exactly but no don't go but on the other [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► hand is gonna die on his own anyways I'm [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► sup so we just this poor kid out there [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► he's forced to go i was so meet well [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► that's that that's the happy [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► wow that's good for me I that that for [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► me the end of that book is all about the [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► lowered standards at the end of the [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► world that that's the happy ending at [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► the Hat is like well they're not eating [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► me immediately they write that might [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► protect me and not eat me and but you [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► but by knowing what you know about [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► everything else that's happened you [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► don't go in saying oh it's gonna be fine [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► you're like know it [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► watch yourself don't trust them maybe [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► this will be okay maybe it won't be [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► waiting at the same time it's like the [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► best [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► yeah yeah could sneak up to the stink up [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► to the little one little denied him with [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► a rock you know its best the best you [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► could you can hope for is this chance [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► you're fearing that too that's another [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► way they could have gone with that is [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► that because that the father is trying [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► desperately to teach the Sun human [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► values and to value human life so we're [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► not going to be alive right but the kid [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► is young so it's like now that the [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► father's influence isn't there will he [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► be able to maintain all the things that [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► the father tried in part on him over the [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► course of the book in the face of the [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► fact that he has to survive and survival [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► instincts [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► besides which there's the as you read it [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► you also realize that while its you [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► really care about the father and the Son [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► staying alive and father protecting the [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► Sun it's very clear from the [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► surroundings that everyone is not this [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► is not a scenario that yeah that is [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► going to turn around right it will be it [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► will just continue going downhill until [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► the last person is dead right it does [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► have that beautiful interlude in the [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► middle though with the bomb shelter [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► it's really warm fuzzy center to this [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► book is the bomb shelter thing where you [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► know it's gonna end it can't last [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► forever right fit for this little tiny [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► brief period of time this that moment of [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► normalcy that they live a whole life and [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► you know however there long they were [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► there week right right well that's [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► that's the also dark but it but also [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► beautiful which is really what that book [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► is that that's kind of McCarthy also [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► saying you know what's the point of life [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► it's that they get they get some time [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► together and they're enjoying that thing [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► and you know everybody everybody is born [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► everybody dies at the end and in the [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► middle you hopefully hopefully have a a [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► good life and they have the father and [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► the Son have that nice little moment [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► where they find the kind of undiscovered [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► shelter that's can still got some food [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► in it but clearly the way the world is [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► going is nobody's making it out alive [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► they're all just hanging on until they [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► are all dead or even or eat well with [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► your sweet you don't ya depending on how [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► you're eating they could keep you alive [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► for wrong slice off bits and pieces that [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► you don't need a strip of excited [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► because they're all i got a do that of [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► course they do [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► oh yeah how way worse the mat so Jesus [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► house it's dark it's it's a matter of [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► food now just just so does anybody else [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► have have favorite or or I suppose hate [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► of examples of apocalyptic stuff that [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► you would like to talk about bring and [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► bring up and while we're on the subject [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► of depressing things i mentioned Nancy [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► cross earlier this is actually think [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► that she comes to over and over again to [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► which is that humanity will eventually [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► screw things up because some [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► biotechnological experiment will go [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► horribly arrived will be killed enough [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► bye-bye genetically modified algae or or [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► again somebody will invent an airborne [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► cancer that you can catch just by [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► sneezing and our her stuff tends to come [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► out with how people will deal with the [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► realization that they're setting foot on [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► the road as it were [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► you know one of the conceit seems to be [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► that those of us who have experienced [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► civilization will be taking it a lot [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► harder than people who are born into [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► lawlessness generating an Arkie since [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► they will never know what they're [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► missing [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► but you know one of my classic ones is a [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► paint a pail of error by Fritz liber [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► which is when the earth has a [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► catastrophic astrological event and the [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► Earth's atmosphere is ripped away and [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► basically there's a small family that [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► man just survive only by virtue of dad [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► having been a climatologist and figuring [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► out how to keep the family going but I I [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► tend to like the short stories but I do [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► agree with Jason that most the time [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► there's this here's a here's a scientist [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► hiding out in somehow keeping the flame [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► of civilization goin whereas like him [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► I'll i suspect that if you if an actual [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► apocalyptic event were to occur it if [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► things would get hideous really quickly [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► you know we would we would also generate [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► to lawless anarchy oh yeah it wouldn't [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► take very much i think now this is the [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► thing about the walking dead the [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► comic-book versus the the TV show is in [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► the TV show everyone is still fairly [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► clean and they're saying please and [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► thank you and they're very very [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► civilized and the the further you get [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► into the comic like the worse it gets [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► and it actually reflects how people [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► would probably act if if they were [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► waking up every morning in a world that [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► was up to kill them right so you know [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► that's that's the thing that I think not [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► enough Apocalyptica fiction really [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► brings home is the idea that that your [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► inexplicably left alive in a place that [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► wants to kill you and you have the urge [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► to keep going and the question is what [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► will you do [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► at what point do your actions to survive [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► outweigh your value you know as it as a [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► living person so Scott you have any [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► favorite apocalyptic stories [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► well I i cannot remember the name of [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► this book which is unfortunate or you'll [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► fit right in with that many days [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► there you go but it was it was written [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► in the fifties set after a nuclear war [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► where and somehow these the script [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► people managed to have a house to find a [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► house and like the Florida Keys and they [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► could you know they learned how to farm [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► and all the stuff and it was just kind [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► of charging how they held out and you [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► know they had a radio and they're [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► listening for transmissions and at the [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► end of the book a helicopter with the US [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► flag lands on it and you know a guy [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► comes out dressed [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► not uniform and the first thing the main [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► character asks him is did we win the war [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► and the the American soldier says yes we [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► did but it as i was reading this is like [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► nobody won this war if there isn't it [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► pretty clear where everybody loses [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► so it's so didn't even more games [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► exactly nobody wins him like a pretty [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► was wasn't I yeah yeah he did say that [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► you enter that it was a lonely he had [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► but it was a very pro-america book even [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► after you can't you can't stop us with [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► your nuclear weapons will be five guys [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► in the Florida Keys will laugh at you [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► exactly Ivan until the radiation [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► Clarence cloud drifts over and killed [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► yeah yeah well it's the sequel it's much [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► more depressing [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► John do you have any I was trying to [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► think of the weirdest apocalypse short [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► story I read and I i know the story but [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► I don't know the title author anything [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► about it and actually I also search [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► toured extensively before the show and [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► totally can't but maybe Jason you've [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► read it uh it was very short story and [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► it was in one of those collections i [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► think it's a bunch of people who are in [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► this old house and it's snowing and at [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► one point someone goes out into the snow [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► and then gets ripped into bloody shreds [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► and no one knows what it's about and [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► it's a retreat back into the house and [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► like the radio they're not getting radio [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► signals anymore and just snow is still [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► in the entire planet up and they're all [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► trapped in this house and people keep [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► dying gory deaths and it turns out this [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► is weird [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► invisible snow snake dragon monster is [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► killing people and also having sex with [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► them during any bells anybody there [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► after he kills them did during usually I [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► oh god it's very it's very very strange [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► if you first you start to reading like [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► it's a horror story where there's a [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► monster on the loose the second like [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► it's science fiction because the end of [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► the world civilization is breaking down [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► and I i like the idea of people being [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► trapped in a house that was kind of one [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► of those you know people going crazy [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► trapped in one spot the apocalypse virus [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► know is very interesting to me or just [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► like well it's not stopping snowing but [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► you know what what happens now we're [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► just gonna be buried in snow and strange [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► invisible magic ghost sex dragon [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► monsters [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► so that was the most interesting [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► apocalyptic had never seen that if the [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► snow won't get you the invisible dragon [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► monsters will [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► yes I and I think Nick and telling let [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► me tell you that is not an easy story to [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► go before [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► yeah I know that but then the more sort [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► of a mainstream stuff i'll just go back [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► to my Steven catalog and and pick out a [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► some favorites versus the long walk i [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► always liked is a pretty simple premise [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► apocalypse the short story and that has [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► anyone read The Long Walk is that [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► familiar to anyone know any Lisa while [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► the premises that it's one of these [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► nonsensical contest sort of like The [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► Hunger Games where they don't explain or [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► anything like that because the short [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► story and a bumpy ride it yeah people [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► get together and you walk when you stop [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► walking the shoot you [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► yes and the lab the last one not shot [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► wins and it's all that story is not much [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► of a promise right but you know it's [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► like ya know because it's it's it's this [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► wonderful internal story and it's [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► basically about some people struggling [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► against the constraints of both external [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► society and the intrinsic biological [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► limits that we all have to live with you [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► know it's a great story that great and I [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► was a great 413 or fine then the [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► expanded version of that was the running [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► man which but uh was that the actual [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► star Stephen King story is the one that [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► became that Arnold Schwarzenegger movie [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► with the guy for families not a man yeah [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► yeah well the short story was not quite [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► as schlocky is that but that's what the [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► The Naturalist reminded me of because [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► you got zombies and you've got to [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► preserve and you've got prisoners you [TS]

00:51:20 ◼   ► just need cameras and audience and [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► what's his name who's the family guy [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► richard Dawson Richard glasses yeah [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► now who loves you and who do you love [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► that's all i needed to add to the [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► naturalist there that I i do like short [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► stories for apocalyptic stuff because [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► really it's like I don't you don't need [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► to explain how it happened i don't [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► really know really know how it comes out [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► just in the middle give me that part and [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► so that works well for short stories I [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► mean that we we mentioned on the Stephen [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► King podcast last on the stand is really [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► a an apocalyptic yeah that's that's a [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► beginning middle and end thing but you [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► need two thousand message of that and [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► the beginning I mean I really love the [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► beginning of the stand because really [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► before the the the being plotted the [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► street [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► goes into gear he gets to spend some [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► time destroying the world basically yeah [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► that's not the good kind of apocalypse [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► where you kill everybody because that's [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► the key to the apocalypse is if you [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► leave people around either alive or [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► zombies then it's just bad and they all [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► kill each other bad things happen to be [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► killed pretty much everybody's like my [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► separately right yeah except for like a [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► couple hundred thousand people then you [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► got something and especially if you know [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► you didn't destroy everything there's no [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► radiation there's no famine and there's [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► no no diseases like everyone alive is [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► immune [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► that's pretty good he had the best [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► premise for end of the world but you're [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► like yeah no no problem [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► nothing's really broken everything's [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► here why can't we live like a civil [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► society oh it's that you know well the [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► the guy changes into a raven maybe put a [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► damper on there that's why tell me [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► something i had to that I wanted to [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► bring up one hellish road one is here [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► when everyone is Earth by David Brin [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► which it is not a great book [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► oh my fuck now oh my god it does feature [TS]

00:53:05 ◼   ► my a very funny thing which is the plot [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► is basically some scientists create a [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► black hole and moves it drops into the [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► center of the earth and begins consuming [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► the earth slowly I'll do it I what [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► you're gonna do it science [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► he's got a savage computer hacker on one [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► side and the gay hypothesis loving [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► hippie on the other and it all works [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► oh yeah and turns out the world doesn't [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► add bicycle wacky stages and turtles [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► into the like all because then just and [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► that's what brings only have you heard [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► the husband James it's black holes all [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► the way down Johnny I have not read the [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► postman ok that's his really that's his [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► dark matter that is I want to disturb [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► but I just like the idea that that the [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► movie that will seminal hope we so we [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► made a black hole the good news good [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► news figured out how to make a black [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► hole bad news going to consume the earth [TS]

00:53:53 ◼   ► sorry we got a good eye and I'm gonna [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► like when worlds collide it's like I got [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► a rocket i'm leaving bye see ya takin [TS]

00:54:01 ◼   ► the other the other 1i want to mention i [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► think i mentioned this in a previous [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► podcast it's it's a the second book in a [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► series by john barnes the first book is [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► a million open doors which I really [TS]

00:54:11 ◼   ► loved about actually been [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► currently-reading that I like this whole [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► series you gave me this series my [TS]

00:54:18 ◼   ► birthday one year i think i did well the [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► second book is really depressing haha [TS]

00:54:23 ◼   ► it's called Earth made of glass dad's [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► about to in this in this series [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► different cultures of current and [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► extinct actually cultures are seated [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► across all these habitable planets in in [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► in space so you have these various [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► cultures and and this one planet has [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► these two essentially incompatible [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► culture sharing it [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► there-there tamil zand there are [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► reconstituted basically Mayan cold and [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► they're at each other's throats and the [TS]

00:54:56 ◼   ► main characters in this in this series [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► are basically like interstellar [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► diplomats the the premise is really [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► clever the idea is that it used to be [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► interstellar travel took hundreds of [TS]

00:55:07 ◼   ► years and so these all these cultures [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► were essentially completely cut off [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► which is why they sort of built the [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► built society the way they did where [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► they have these different cultures going [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► and going out to run on their own except [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► inconvenient somebody creates a device [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► that lets you step through a portal from [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► one planet to another and it causes huge [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► culture clashes and its really an [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► interesting idea anyway earth made a [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► made a blast these diplomats come to try [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► and settle the dispute between these two [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► cultures and it doesn't go well and and [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► and I i think that i think the book is [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► worth reading anyway but i'm going to [TS]

00:55:44 ◼   ► spoil it here which is essentially at [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► the end they all launched like they're [TS]

00:55:48 ◼   ► gamma 1 gamma ray beams and I they it's [TS]

00:55:53 ◼   ► unclear but the diplomats who escaped [TS]

00:55:56 ◼   ► right at the very end it believe that [TS]

00:55:59 ◼   ► nobody is left alive and if there is [TS]

00:56:01 ◼   ► anybody left alive there are very few [TS]

00:56:03 ◼   ► people left alive these to get a lion [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► culture goodbye town yeah kill each [TS]

00:56:07 ◼   ► other they could date they they refused [TS]

00:56:10 ◼   ► to its brinkmanship right they hate each [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► other they refused to negotiate with [TS]

00:56:14 ◼   ► each other you can draw the parallel [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► with all sorts of different examples on [TS]

00:56:17 ◼   ► modern-day planet earth and in the end [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► they kill each other because there's [TS]

00:56:22 ◼   ► nothing they will not live with each [TS]

00:56:24 ◼   ► other so instead they died together and [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► it's so depressing [TS]

00:56:27 ◼   ► yet brilliant i thought it was really [TS]

00:56:29 ◼   ► great that he went there and then you [TS]

00:56:30 ◼   ► spend this entire book with these [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► diplomats trying to stave off [TS]

00:56:33 ◼   ► annihilation of this planet and they [TS]

00:56:36 ◼   ► fail [TS]

00:56:37 ◼   ► yeah anyway so earth made of glass [TS]

00:56:40 ◼   ► i recommend it if you like it if you [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► like it dark and that's a good series [TS]

00:56:45 ◼   ► that John Barnes yeah i'm going to read [TS]

00:56:47 ◼   ► that and I Fallon trivia the name of the [TS]

00:56:50 ◼   ► book that i was describing its lat [TS]

00:56:52 ◼   ► alas Babylon I was gonna guess that an [TS]

00:56:55 ◼   ► hour because i read that book when I was [TS]

00:56:57 ◼   ► anyway you were describing like Jesus [TS]

00:56:58 ◼   ► sounds familiar to me I wonder if the [TS]

00:56:59 ◼   ► last Babylon like I only think that [TS]

00:57:01 ◼   ► because that's like the only book i read [TS]

00:57:03 ◼   ► in school that I can remember but it [TS]

00:57:04 ◼   ► actually is it is in fact you were right [TS]

00:57:07 ◼   ► yeah yeah we can read that in like [TS]

00:57:09 ◼   ► middle school or something and I had to [TS]

00:57:11 ◼   ► read that in class [TS]

00:57:12 ◼   ► oh interesting and the America one yes I [TS]

00:57:16 ◼   ► i was gonna say that sounds a little bit [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► like on the beach [TS]

00:57:18 ◼   ► yeah that one to which is a [TS]

00:57:21 ◼   ► post-apocalyptic Australian [TS]

00:57:22 ◼   ► post-apocalyptic nukes all about the [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► nukes [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► yeah yeah australia all about the [TS]

00:57:28 ◼   ► beaches even after the apocalypse [TS]

00:57:30 ◼   ► still it means them i'm not the other it [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► all wikipedia is also reminded me [TS]

00:57:34 ◼   ► probably my favorite apocalyptic story [TS]

00:57:36 ◼   ► which i completely forgot make fall by I [TS]

00:57:39 ◼   ► seguro [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► oh that's that's funny because that's [TS]

00:57:43 ◼   ► like student that I astronomical [TS]

00:57:45 ◼   ► apocalypse right is good [TS]

00:57:47 ◼   ► yeah we are in 2012 that's a good [TS]

00:57:49 ◼   ► old-fashioned mayan calendar pockets [TS]

00:57:51 ◼   ► right it is true [TS]

00:57:52 ◼   ► yeah they're obviously planet is always [TS]

00:57:55 ◼   ► illuminated except when is so it has [TS]

00:57:58 ◼   ► like three sons or something and every [TS]

00:58:00 ◼   ► 5,000 years or something that they all [TS]

00:58:02 ◼   ► eclipse at the same time and what [TS]

00:58:04 ◼   ► happened he goes crazy everybody goes [TS]

00:58:06 ◼   ► crazy except for the the astronomers who [TS]

00:58:09 ◼   ► are locked in the observatory and the [TS]

00:58:11 ◼   ► you know by the end you certainly are [TS]

00:58:14 ◼   ► dead and it was turned into an awful [TS]

00:58:16 ◼   ► which was less successful but any other [TS]

00:58:19 ◼   ► ends any other worlds we should end the [TS]

00:58:22 ◼   ► hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy is [TS]

00:58:23 ◼   ► really about the world and the first 20 [TS]

00:58:25 ◼   ► pages and yeah [TS]

00:58:27 ◼   ► sherry sherry tempers novel the gate to [TS]

00:58:29 ◼   ► women's country supposed apocalyptic [TS]

00:58:31 ◼   ► novel where it picks up presumably [TS]

00:58:35 ◼   ► believe in not radical feminists are [TS]

00:58:37 ◼   ► responsible for the resurgence of [TS]