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The Incomparable

86: Like "Catcher in the Rye," Except Crappier

 

00:00:00   in conquerable podcast number a desserts [TS]

00:00:10   april twenty well [TS]

00:00:15   we are back on the incomparable podcast [TS]

00:00:17   I'm your host Jason scale and it is time [TS]

00:00:19   to open another edition of our [TS]

00:00:21   incomparable book club [TS]

00:00:23   today's topic is magic and books about [TS]

00:00:28   magical things specifically we've got [TS]

00:00:30   two books that we're going to talk about [TS]

00:00:32   that we're magic and magician ship [TS]

00:00:35   features heavily and then we will [TS]

00:00:37   probably have a little bit of time to [TS]

00:00:38   branch out and talk about some other [TS]

00:00:39   stuff to joining me on the incomparable [TS]

00:00:44   book club tonight our Glenn fleischmann [TS]

00:00:47   hi Glenn [TS]

00:00:47   hello there to have you thank you for [TS]

00:00:50   having me [TS]

00:00:51   dan more'n Jason it's not magic it's an [TS]

00:00:55   illusion [TS]

00:00:56   Scott McNulty hello hello good to have [TS]

00:01:00   you here i'll always a pleasure [TS]

00:01:02   do you remember these books i remembers [TS]

00:01:06   the titles [TS]

00:01:07   ok excess Skylanders work Scott [TS]

00:01:09   remembers words on a page i did read the [TS]

00:01:11   village we look to you for title [TS]

00:01:13   information and serenity Caldwell [TS]

00:01:16   hello i am now speed reading reading [TS]

00:01:19   through both these books because it has [TS]

00:01:21   been so long since i read them [TS]

00:01:23   simultaneously what everything yes [TS]

00:01:24   simultaneous right hands you're flipping [TS]

00:01:26   hmm well I have an iPhone an iPad I'm [TS]

00:01:29   not gonna make the best use the space [TS]

00:01:32   good good work good work alright so the [TS]

00:01:34   two books were going to talk about it as [TS]

00:01:36   our primary focus tonight are the Night [TS]

00:01:38   Circus by Erin Morgenstern this is a [TS]

00:01:41   book from 2011 it is actually started [TS]

00:01:45   out its life as a national novel writing [TS]

00:01:47   month novel which is very exciting and [TS]

00:01:50   it has screech has gotten a lot of the [TS]

00:01:53   claim and also the magicians by lev [TS]

00:01:57   grossman which was published in 2009 and [TS]

00:02:01   it also actually got some acclaim and he [TS]

00:02:03   won an award for best up-and-coming [TS]

00:02:05   writer from the hugo awards last year [TS]

00:02:07   day and I'd a little-known fact actually [TS]

00:02:10   left Grossman pen name of lex friedman I [TS]

00:02:13   mean it's not true office this is not [TS]

00:02:15   true although he is in our business he [TS]

00:02:17   is the he is i believe the technology [TS]

00:02:19   one of the technology reporters have a [TS]

00:02:21   geek culture reporter if you have time [TS]

00:02:23   magazine and a croton [TS]

00:02:25   doing some reason about about the ipad [TS]

00:02:27   came out and I i ended up reading the [TS]

00:02:29   time magazine story about the ipad which [TS]

00:02:31   was by lev grossman did he say was [TS]

00:02:34   magical [TS]

00:02:35   what I find strange about the ipad [TS]

00:02:36   launch from web gross perspectives about [TS]

00:02:38   halfway through the ipad entered a [TS]

00:02:41   strange fantasy world [TS]

00:02:42   Oh about halfway through the ipad got a [TS]

00:02:45   lot better too [TS]

00:02:45   ah alright so let's start with the [TS]

00:02:48   magicians by let's review let's start [TS]

00:02:49   we'll start there and I know that people [TS]

00:02:52   have strong feelings about this novel [TS]

00:02:53   but just to recap beyond the title which [TS]

00:02:57   is the magician to Scott remembers [TS]

00:02:59   correct yes k q haces God has fulfilled [TS]

00:03:02   his behalf of his needs tonight right [TS]

00:03:05   this is a book a kind of strange [TS]

00:03:08   instructure I've heard it described by [TS]

00:03:10   many people as being the foul-mouthed or [TS]

00:03:13   dirty version of Harry Potter and that [TS]

00:03:16   it is about a school for magic it's in [TS]

00:03:18   the united states and not not in the UK [TS]

00:03:20   it's just it's a school where people [TS]

00:03:22   learn magical things except their foul [TS]

00:03:25   mouth and and drink heavily and have sex [TS]

00:03:29   with each other and other things that [TS]

00:03:31   are not in harry potter it's it's the [TS]

00:03:36   story of clinton who who lives in [TS]

00:03:40   Brooklyn and is discovers there's this [TS]

00:03:42   up by going by walking deeply back [TS]

00:03:46   behind it like a garden inn in brooklyn [TS]

00:03:49   and pushing through stuff stuff he ends [TS]

00:03:51   up very very Narnia like very Lion the [TS]

00:03:55   Witch and the Wardrobe like he ends up [TS]

00:03:56   at this school brakebills which is the [TS]

00:03:59   school for magicians and he takes some [TS]

00:04:00   tests that are people peculiar and then [TS]

00:04:03   he is enrolled in the school and time is [TS]

00:04:05   out of sync and he meets people and [TS]

00:04:07   there's a whole lot of school stuff and [TS]

00:04:10   then there's a strange plot twist that [TS]

00:04:12   leads to a whole other story about this [TS]

00:04:15   strange magical world called Hillary so [TS]

00:04:19   you know I um I know there are strong [TS]

00:04:22   feelings about this novel so I'd like to [TS]

00:04:25   I'd like to hear what you guys thought [TS]

00:04:27   of it and let's start i'm not gonna [TS]

00:04:29   start with Scott because maybe our [TS]

00:04:31   discussions will remind him of things [TS]

00:04:33   that happened in it [TS]

00:04:34   shop some memories loose you can play [TS]

00:04:36   along until then and start with that [TS]

00:04:39   damn or and what what what are your [TS]

00:04:40   thoughts were about the magician's you [TS]

00:04:42   know a I think I think I talk to you [TS]

00:04:45   really well I was well I was in the [TS]

00:04:47   midst of it and found it you know rather [TS]

00:04:49   lackluster to the point I think at that [TS]

00:04:51   point I was about after two thirds of [TS]

00:04:53   the way through and I think a lot of my [TS]

00:04:56   problem with that is that the characters [TS]

00:04:57   are so alienating and they're drawn in [TS]

00:04:59   this very stereotypical talking about [TS]

00:05:02   the book that reminded me the most of [TS]

00:05:04   I'm trying to remember the name of it i [TS]

00:05:06   think it was called the cheese monkeys [TS]

00:05:07   by the chip kidd a4 chip kid yeah and so [TS]

00:05:12   it's but it's got that same sort of [TS]

00:05:14   that's about like a bunch of kids going [TS]

00:05:15   to art school and so that's kind of what [TS]

00:05:18   this reminded me of in a way is you've [TS]

00:05:19   got all these kids who are really [TS]

00:05:22   pretentious and I think that's what [TS]

00:05:25   bothered me the most about it they're [TS]

00:05:27   all kind of they're all kind of like [TS]

00:05:30   layabouts and ne'er do wells to a [TS]

00:05:32   certain extent especially Quentin the [TS]

00:05:34   clicky sort of falls in with and not in [TS]

00:05:38   the sense that they're all extremely [TS]

00:05:39   wealthy or whatever but they're all you [TS]

00:05:41   know they all do magic and so especially [TS]

00:05:43   once they get out of out of brakebills [TS]

00:05:47   and back into the real world [TS]

00:05:48   I put quotes around that because they're [TS]

00:05:50   like living in an apartment in Manhattan [TS]

00:05:51   they don't have to work they have all [TS]

00:05:52   the money they ever need is a magical [TS]

00:05:54   right and so they spend all their time [TS]

00:05:56   drinking and doing drugs and having sex [TS]

00:05:58   and all that so um which is it's not [TS]

00:06:01   terribly interesting because there's not [TS]

00:06:04   really a plot going on at that point [TS]

00:06:06   it's just these characters and [TS]

00:06:08   unfortunately the characters again like [TS]

00:06:09   I said I didn't [TS]

00:06:11   they're not really like no they're not [TS]

00:06:12   likeable I mean maybe alice is maybe [TS]

00:06:15   like you never you never get insider say [TS]

00:06:17   yeah but she's a mysterious other figure [TS]

00:06:21   who maybe I think you feel sad for her [TS]

00:06:24   more than anything yeah you know the [TS]

00:06:25   other the other characters i mean we [TS]

00:06:27   meet we meet these these characters and [TS]

00:06:31   their older than a question and you get [TS]

00:06:37   the sense that they're kind of already [TS]

00:06:38   there [TS]

00:06:39   they've been corrupted by the school and [TS]

00:06:41   their cynical and and kind of unfriendly [TS]

00:06:45   and the [TS]

00:06:46   and-and-and there and Quentin and Alice [TS]

00:06:48   are sort of like promoted into their [TS]

00:06:51   year and so they're the younger ones and [TS]

00:06:53   they're more innocent and and so through [TS]

00:06:55   them you end up seeing these other [TS]

00:06:56   characters who are more the another kind [TS]

00:06:59   of hedonistic and they're very cynical [TS]

00:07:01   and they're not particularly like when [TS]

00:07:03   they've already got a sort of already [TS]

00:07:04   have it [TS]

00:07:05   politics between them and their arse [TS]

00:07:07   history that's ugly of people who've [TS]

00:07:11   loved and hated each other and it's a [TS]

00:07:13   good kind of the whole thing it falls [TS]

00:07:15   into this sort of trap of of clich├ęs in [TS]

00:07:17   some way of you have these you know [TS]

00:07:19   dissolute teenagers you think they're [TS]

00:07:22   too cool for everything and like you [TS]

00:07:23   have the the how everybody hates their [TS]

00:07:25   parents right even like especially [TS]

00:07:27   Quentin's parents that really struck me [TS]

00:07:28   as his parents being really kind of an [TS]

00:07:30   offensive and bland but he's somehow [TS]

00:07:32   offended by that ineffectiveness but it [TS]

00:07:36   struck me as not really having a [TS]

00:07:38   well-defined reason or a you know like [TS]

00:07:41   it just struck me as like a god it's an [TS]

00:07:43   annoying teenager you know and and and [TS]

00:07:46   maybe that's realistic but it sits at [TS]

00:07:48   the same time just so boring to read is [TS]

00:07:51   so dull harry potter went through that [TS]

00:07:53   for an entire harry potter book and it [TS]

00:07:55   was actually one of the more unpleasant [TS]

00:07:57   things in here hotter series he spends [TS]

00:07:59   the entire book being mad at everybody [TS]

00:08:01   because he supposed to be sullen because [TS]

00:08:04   he's a teenager and it's you know it may [TS]

00:08:07   be realistic in one way but it just kind [TS]

00:08:09   of sucks because it's just like you're a [TS]

00:08:11   jerk [TS]

00:08:12   why do I fiction for a reason yeah so [TS]

00:08:15   Dan what you said was you were [TS]

00:08:17   despairing but I did you didn't pick up [TS]

00:08:20   at the end then it [TS]

00:08:22   this is sort of two books right it's [TS]

00:08:23   kind of like two totally different plot [TS]

00:08:25   yes well it's like yeah there's a [TS]

00:08:27   there's a book at the beginning which is [TS]

00:08:29   really boring school [TS]

00:08:30   well it's cool Quentin as a kid and [TS]

00:08:33   whatever I even the part of sort of [TS]

00:08:35   beginning where they get to fillory this [TS]

00:08:38   this magical universe even that feels [TS]

00:08:41   kind of shoddy because Aaron it haha [TS]

00:08:43   yeah it is unclear right like whether [TS]

00:08:45   this is a pastiche on the sort of narnia [TS]

00:08:48   and and traditional fantasies or whether [TS]

00:08:51   it's a actual honest like Ernest fantasy [TS]

00:08:54   story right I've got to say something [TS]

00:08:56   about that because [TS]

00:08:58   when reading this book all I could think [TS]

00:09:00   of was this is a kid who wrote Narnia [TS]

00:09:03   fanfiction in high school wrote like 250 [TS]

00:09:06   thousand words of it said well I [TS]

00:09:08   obviously can't publish it because it's [TS]

00:09:10   fanfiction let me sit on it a couple [TS]

00:09:12   years and then a couple years later he [TS]

00:09:14   comes up to it means like oh well maybe [TS]

00:09:16   if I twerksum names around [TS]

00:09:17   Hey look I've got a novel then it just [TS]

00:09:21   so happens to be very clearly resemble i [TS]

00:09:23   think yeah I think that was it felt like [TS]

00:09:25   parody a community parents so earnest so [TS]

00:09:28   it's no it's not understand i mean [TS]

00:09:30   there's enough of a critique in there I [TS]

00:09:31   feel like that he's trying to that I [TS]

00:09:32   don't think it's particularly well [TS]

00:09:34   executed critique but it's clearly [TS]

00:09:37   ripping off but it's yeah it's so it's [TS]

00:09:38   so heavy-handed it is very heavy-handed [TS]

00:09:41   number an ember thing where it's like [TS]

00:09:42   and then at the end they come and they [TS]

00:09:44   always take the chat when children away [TS]

00:09:47   and they have to go back to the world [TS]

00:09:48   seems so unfair and I'm like that is [TS]

00:09:50   someone reading rd and said why can't [TS]

00:09:51   the kids stay there you know it's just [TS]

00:09:54   this [TS]

00:09:54   yeah doesn't add to its just like this [TS]

00:09:56   complaint yeah I the the illusions are [TS]

00:09:59   so heavy though like you know they talk [TS]

00:10:01   about you know I think the older girl at [TS]

00:10:03   some of the older chat when you're at [TS]

00:10:04   some point and of course anybody who's [TS]

00:10:05   read Narnia you know thanks immediately [TS]

00:10:08   a Susan who is the one you know the one [TS]

00:10:11   kid who is sort of at a later point just [TS]

00:10:14   decide she's she's she's never coming [TS]

00:10:16   back to Narnia guess she's just got the [TS]

00:10:18   joints right ages out and which is one [TS]

00:10:21   thing that many people are critical of [TS]

00:10:23   in Lewis's work but i think that I grew [TS]

00:10:28   Jason that this is this is intended more [TS]

00:10:30   as Christie core a critique or pastiche [TS]

00:10:32   or something like that [TS]

00:10:33   I don't know if I'd go so far as to say [TS]

00:10:35   it's parody because it doesn't quite [TS]

00:10:36   work that way and it's not funny enough [TS]

00:10:39   to be parody to me and not very [TS]

00:10:40   necessarily to be funny but like well [TS]

00:10:42   it's not it's not a parody of not sharp [TS]

00:10:44   enough there is a pair of harry potter [TS]

00:10:46   it does feel like if you take harry [TS]

00:10:48   potter and narnia what what what really [TS]

00:10:50   is happening here is he's he's trying to [TS]

00:10:54   make some kind of commentary right while [TS]

00:10:56   telling a story about that sort of like [TS]

00:10:58   the the how clean some of these family [TS]

00:11:03   beloved fantasy stories are versus sort [TS]

00:11:05   of the dirtiness of reality and real [TS]

00:11:07   people and real life and I feel that the [TS]

00:11:10   school seems very strongly [TS]

00:11:11   and in the scenes in the second half in [TS]

00:11:14   fillory you know I feel like he's making [TS]

00:11:16   some comments on on this idea of the [TS]

00:11:20   children I mean you talk about the [TS]

00:11:22   children visiting and IMF and the [TS]

00:11:23   changes in time and all of that he is [TS]

00:11:25   sort of making a comment about that [TS]

00:11:27   especially given the fact that spoiler [TS]

00:11:30   horn [TS]

00:11:33   the the the bad guy ends up being one of [TS]

00:11:37   the children who is bad because he [TS]

00:11:40   doesn't want to leave and I but the but [TS]

00:11:44   he doesn't he doesn't commit to it my [TS]

00:11:45   problem is that it's not just the novel [TS]

00:11:47   changes halfway through its that he [TS]

00:11:49   doesn't commit to being either parody or [TS]

00:11:51   critique and he's and that's what it [TS]

00:11:53   feels like pastiche because it's a [TS]

00:11:55   washing machine yeah he borrows [TS]

00:11:57   everything he can I mean the fact that [TS]

00:11:58   needed brakebills like that could be [TS]

00:12:00   funny if he was really trying to [TS]

00:12:01   Hogwarts parody but he doesn't it's he [TS]

00:12:04   borrow it's like it's like oh I'm gonna [TS]

00:12:06   make a little joke here and there an [TS]

00:12:07   occasion i'm going to make a joke about [TS]

00:12:09   Narnia or or harry potter i don't think [TS]

00:12:11   it's a parody it's commentary it is [TS]

00:12:13   saying this is unrealistic to expect [TS]

00:12:15   people to behave the way they do in [TS]

00:12:17   Harry Potter this is how they would [TS]

00:12:18   behave but who wants to read a book [TS]

00:12:21   about that well that may be but well I [TS]

00:12:23   mean I and I think you could do that [TS]

00:12:24   well I just not sure that this was done [TS]

00:12:26   well my thing is that he steals the [TS]

00:12:28   framework so he tries to eat he makes [TS]

00:12:29   them in jokes he makes the reference and [TS]

00:12:31   then it's like okay well not describe [TS]

00:12:33   something works just like Harry Potter [TS]

00:12:34   you know it works just like whores [TS]

00:12:36   describing workers everyone's read [TS]

00:12:38   Narnia so I'm just gonna go into the [TS]

00:12:39   other thing ignore the fact that i [TS]

00:12:40   created something I bring up all these [TS]

00:12:42   things are always in jokes and create [TS]

00:12:44   different names for everything and [TS]

00:12:45   sometimes wink and nudge about Narnia or [TS]

00:12:47   harry potter and then he moves on and [TS]

00:12:49   you know we're talking about just those [TS]

00:12:50   two there so many elements like brought [TS]

00:12:53   in from every other book and movie you [TS]

00:12:55   know there's bright lights big city in [TS]

00:12:56   the New York seen practically there's [TS]

00:12:58   there's a it's just I feel like it i [TS]

00:13:00   think best each is the right word [TS]

00:13:01   because I feel like they're 50 different [TS]

00:13:03   bits and pieces of fantasy novels and [TS]

00:13:06   magic novels and movies i mean i've felt [TS]

00:13:08   like it was a terrible movie with your [TS]

00:13:11   sensual a terrible movie with nicolas [TS]

00:13:12   cage where sorcerer's apprentice right [TS]

00:13:15   which I saw national richer conair yeah [TS]

00:13:18   I don't know [TS]

00:13:19   so has rich and famous sorcerers [TS]

00:13:22   apprentice had the same field to me [TS]

00:13:23   where they're like they're trying to [TS]

00:13:24   reference stuff and they're sort of [TS]

00:13:25   being funny and the sort of making no [TS]

00:13:27   sense and it doesn't stand alone it's [TS]

00:13:29   like Oh electricity allows us to perform [TS]

00:13:32   magic except we say spells except [TS]

00:13:34   there's there's a perfect part that [TS]

00:13:36   explains this book for me which is early [TS]

00:13:38   on they're doing some lecture and one of [TS]

00:13:39   the professor says we don't know [TS]

00:13:41   anything about the orange of origin of [TS]

00:13:42   magic and he makes the it's Turtles all [TS]

00:13:44   the way down story and it goes on about [TS]

00:13:46   the turtles all the way down reference [TS]

00:13:47   to hammer on the point that we don't [TS]

00:13:49   because harry potter it's obviously a [TS]

00:13:51   peep of his and the Harry Potter books [TS]

00:13:52   they don't really look at where magic [TS]

00:13:54   comes from comes from they just study it [TS]

00:13:56   like empirical of scientists used to [TS]

00:13:58   without setting the basis of you know [TS]

00:14:00   reality or whatever and I feel like the [TS]

00:14:02   same things come up here is you know it [TS]

00:14:04   brings these things up because there is [TS]

00:14:05   pet peeves he gets rid of them and then [TS]

00:14:07   moves on just like you know you work [TS]

00:14:09   through the harry potter thing whether [TS]

00:14:10   should have been sex and drugs and [TS]

00:14:11   violence and weird stuff at Hogwarts [TS]

00:14:14   while we've done that now we're going to [TS]

00:14:15   go into the narnia world and there [TS]

00:14:16   should have been you know this and that [TS]

00:14:18   and strange gods and so forth and then [TS]

00:14:20   he does not i wanted to interject that I [TS]

00:14:22   thought they were the the scene there's [TS]

00:14:24   one scene that really stands out for me [TS]

00:14:26   in the first half of the book which is [TS]

00:14:27   the one point where if i'm sort of [TS]

00:14:28   like-- lazily like asian through it and [TS]

00:14:30   reading the one that made me sort of [TS]

00:14:31   setup is the scene the first scene with [TS]

00:14:33   the Beast weary antagonists and taxing [TS]

00:14:35   best which i think is one of the best [TS]

00:14:37   scenes yeah overall its original [TS]

00:14:39   slightly yeah it's an original scene [TS]

00:14:41   doesn't feel like anything else yeah [TS]

00:14:42   it's really scary especially that last [TS]

00:14:44   bit where it's like you have to go [TS]

00:14:45   through the whole thing and it's kind of [TS]

00:14:46   terrifying your kind of frozen and then [TS]

00:14:47   again like they're like oh and nobody [TS]

00:14:49   even noticed that this like student [TS]

00:14:50   totally died and you're just like wait [TS]

00:14:53   what [TS]

00:14:53   but they never really be kind of cheats [TS]

00:14:55   his way out of it never really goes you [TS]

00:14:57   know back to that aspect of it right it [TS]

00:15:00   gets put on hold so long but I was like [TS]

00:15:02   maybe he just forgot it will never come [TS]

00:15:03   up again but it did it got it does it [TS]

00:15:06   does and I and I mean and I think that [TS]

00:15:08   that's the part that's where the story [TS]

00:15:10   starts to come around to me is towards [TS]

00:15:12   the end I think it really took as far as [TS]

00:15:15   they get into sort of this tomb right [TS]

00:15:17   and I get up to the you know they find [TS]

00:15:20   amber and they start interrogating him [TS]

00:15:22   and you kind of realize that this is all [TS]

00:15:25   a sort of a ploy and then they have to [TS]

00:15:28   like them they're you know they're in [TS]

00:15:30   there in deep crap right and they have [TS]

00:15:32   to sort of get there [TS]

00:15:33   out of it and it doesn't go well and [TS]

00:15:35   that's the part where I started like [TS]

00:15:36   okay I I kind of like that there's [TS]

00:15:39   something at stake here and that things [TS]

00:15:41   go really badly and that they have to [TS]

00:15:43   dig themselves out this huge hole and I [TS]

00:15:45   really sort of love the coda after that [TS]

00:15:47   with the questing beast remove that that [TS]

00:15:50   little short story in there where he [TS]

00:15:52   wakes up after this huge battle and he's [TS]

00:15:55   been asleep for like months are you know [TS]

00:15:59   and he's his hair is gone white and so [TS]

00:16:01   he's taking care of by all these [TS]

00:16:03   centaurs kind of pity them and then he [TS]

00:16:05   has to go off and search after this [TS]

00:16:06   thing I love that little bit you know [TS]

00:16:08   where that's a reference to by the way [TS]

00:16:10   the again everything is the best teacher [TS]

00:16:12   I like that part too very much i thought [TS]

00:16:14   that was that one of the best parts of [TS]

00:16:15   the book but the infernal desire [TS]

00:16:16   machines of dr. Hoffman by angela carter [TS]

00:16:19   with your friend gave me to read it's a [TS]

00:16:20   terrifying and hilarious book and [TS]

00:16:22   there's a bit with centaurs in it that [TS]

00:16:24   is exceedingly disturbing to any [TS]

00:16:27   rational mind and that scene in the book [TS]

00:16:30   with the Centaurs is clearly an homage [TS]

00:16:32   to it without being anywhere near as [TS]

00:16:33   disturbing as national Carter's book I [TS]

00:16:36   wanted to mention one other seen that I [TS]

00:16:37   that I liked in a book which is the [TS]

00:16:39   scene where at graduation they're all [TS]

00:16:41   taken down into know ya levels below [TS]

00:16:43   level level level and it's like outside [TS]

00:16:46   the magical protection area and they all [TS]

00:16:48   get tattoos that are essentially demons [TS]

00:16:50   being inserted into them to protect them [TS]

00:16:53   and it's this ritual and the Dean is [TS]

00:16:56   sort of like I'm ok I'm gonna let you [TS]

00:16:58   and now that you've graduated I'm gonna [TS]

00:16:59   let you in on some of the last secrets i [TS]

00:17:01   thought that was really evocative there [TS]

00:17:02   are a few scenes like that that you did [TS]

00:17:04   you like wow there are some elements of [TS]

00:17:06   a really good book that was not real you [TS]

00:17:09   know what the will the scene that stands [TS]

00:17:10   alone for me that was the best the [TS]

00:17:11   Antarctica seen I loved that scene I [TS]

00:17:15   thought the whole thing it was so gritty [TS]

00:17:17   it was so disconnected from the rest of [TS]

00:17:19   the book it was so it actually had I [TS]

00:17:21   would say compelling sex even though was [TS]

00:17:23   between foxes I thought that the other [TS]

00:17:25   sex is whole thing about being sex and [TS]

00:17:26   drugs and alcohol and the book isn't [TS]

00:17:28   very interesting throughout and I [TS]

00:17:29   thought that got more to sort of like [TS]

00:17:31   raw elemental stuff than anything else [TS]

00:17:33   in the book and it it's a fascinating [TS]

00:17:35   little snippet and when they get back to [TS]

00:17:38   brakebills I'm like ah that parts over [TS]

00:17:40   that part was actually really strong [TS]

00:17:43   well the part it takes them out of their [TS]

00:17:45   reality to serve [TS]

00:17:46   extending them out of the context and [TS]

00:17:48   also you're taking them out of their [TS]

00:17:50   board disaffected human minds and [TS]

00:17:52   putting them in animals and things like [TS]

00:17:53   that and like oh no you can't talk to [TS]

00:17:55   each other so you can't complain about [TS]

00:17:56   how bored you are i don't know it feels [TS]

00:17:58   like to create a quote from louis ck [TS]

00:18:00   here everything is awesome and nobody is [TS]

00:18:02   happy where it's like you were going to [TS]

00:18:05   a school for magic and you're still [TS]

00:18:06   gonna be all the time and yes [TS]

00:18:08   admittedly if he wants to make a you [TS]

00:18:11   know if if Grossman's idea is to make a [TS]

00:18:13   story about how magic really just causes [TS]

00:18:16   trouble and makes people unhappy you [TS]

00:18:18   know there are elements in there there's [TS]

00:18:20   like the parents seen we get to see what [TS]

00:18:23   else's parents who are just these people [TS]

00:18:26   who have oh yeah well you you take the [TS]

00:18:29   this is what disaffected people turn [TS]

00:18:31   into when they have all the power at [TS]

00:18:33   their hands and they just going into [TS]

00:18:35   themselves into crazy this book actually [TS]

00:18:38   kind of reminds me of Catcher in the Rye [TS]

00:18:39   except with magic and crappier and Carla [TS]

00:18:43   know we'll listen for a second because [TS]

00:18:46   like a lot of people this catcher in the [TS]

00:18:48   rye because of the you know disaffected [TS]

00:18:50   nature of the protagonist but i would [TS]

00:18:51   say the tone or at least a tone that [TS]

00:18:54   Grossman is trying to achieve i think is [TS]

00:18:56   similar to catcher in the rye his [TS]

00:18:58   catcher in the rye is a very affecting [TS]

00:19:00   book even though it's narrator is a bit [TS]

00:19:02   of an ass [TS]

00:19:03   well that's why I'm not criticizing this [TS]

00:19:05   I'm saying that you know comparing this [TS]

00:19:07   to catch on the rise like you know [TS]

00:19:09   comparing the rock to you know the [TS]

00:19:12   tempest you know i got it will take [TS]

00:19:14   place on Islands you know I mean they [TS]

00:19:16   have similar themes not necessarily that [TS]

00:19:19   they're similar tears of literature [TS]

00:19:21   no yeah I'm gonna backups ready because [TS]

00:19:22   I thought that was the missing the the [TS]

00:19:24   structural problem for me was if you [TS]

00:19:25   want to explore what happens when you [TS]

00:19:27   have infinite aura now relatively [TS]

00:19:28   infinite power compared to other people [TS]

00:19:30   and what happens the corruption and [TS]

00:19:32   harry potter and despite someone [TS]

00:19:34   dimensionality of it throughout the the [TS]

00:19:37   conflict between having power and being [TS]

00:19:39   forced to restrain and the the [TS]

00:19:41   mechanisms in the Harry Potter universe [TS]

00:19:43   beat that even though sometimes we just [TS]

00:19:45   presented as parodies of British [TS]

00:19:47   bureaucracy there are checks and [TS]

00:19:49   balances you must do something useful [TS]

00:19:50   with yourself or sort of retire back [TS]

00:19:52   into the magical world you can't go out [TS]

00:19:54   and just sort of screw around in this [TS]

00:19:56   world the rules don't seem to apply and [TS]

00:19:57   you wonder why [TS]

00:19:58   more things aren't going awry and people [TS]

00:20:00   have different amounts of power and he [TS]

00:20:02   never explores the it's not a great [TS]

00:20:04   responsibility comes you know with great [TS]

00:20:05   power thing it's more like he doesn't [TS]

00:20:08   explore the ethical limits of having no [TS]

00:20:10   check someone's actions [TS]

00:20:12   it's just uh well we can do anything we [TS]

00:20:13   want so we're all going to collapse and [TS]

00:20:15   ennui [TS]

00:20:16   or become despite and so that whole last [TS]

00:20:19   seen right where he's he's after he's [TS]

00:20:21   escaped from Philadelphia she decides 30 [TS]

00:20:24   yeah he decides to go work in this Fermi [TS]

00:20:26   doesn't really do anything he draws a [TS]

00:20:28   paycheck he sits around in his office [TS]

00:20:29   and plays video games all day is really [TS]

00:20:31   nice office that he's just sort of [TS]

00:20:32   convince people to give them and I mean [TS]

00:20:35   I don't know it you sort of sad it's [TS]

00:20:38   difficult thing and I think that you [TS]

00:20:39   know I think the ending of this book is [TS]

00:20:41   fairly contentious in some ways [TS]

00:20:42   especially the you know very end of it [TS]

00:20:45   where he essentially decides why the [TS]

00:20:47   heck not [TS]

00:20:48   I'll go back with all my friends to this [TS]

00:20:50   you know terrible face that we barely [TS]

00:20:52   escaped with our lives because at least [TS]

00:20:54   it's more exciting than what the hell [TS]

00:20:55   I'm doing here [TS]

00:20:56   that makes no sense to me oh I thought [TS]

00:20:58   they had established some meaning that [TS]

00:20:59   they had meeting and resolve and that's [TS]

00:21:01   why he went with him as opposed to hey [TS]

00:21:02   let's go have fun it was like no these [TS]

00:21:04   were kick-ass people and figure out some [TS]

00:21:06   way to scrape some meeting and looking [TS]

00:21:08   at them he's like alright maybe there is [TS]

00:21:10   something to do I was gonna love it if [TS]

00:21:12   you know they had connected the [TS]

00:21:13   characters more but I feel like by the [TS]

00:21:14   end of the book maybe i just read it to [TS]

00:21:16   sleep by the end after he goes on the [TS]

00:21:18   questing beast thing [TS]

00:21:19   it kind of feels like oh I'm done with [TS]

00:21:21   this chapter in my life I'm closing off [TS]

00:21:23   magic forever [TS]

00:21:25   I'm gonna go work in an office and be [TS]

00:21:26   completely you know just simply [TS]

00:21:29   dissolute about this i mean even meets [TS]

00:21:30   up with somebody who was a former which [TS]

00:21:32   is also working at this firm in doing [TS]

00:21:34   nothing and they have coffee and it's [TS]

00:21:36   and it's very much it feels like after [TS]

00:21:38   that scene after the you know the coffee [TS]

00:21:40   or the beer scene that he feels you know [TS]

00:21:43   completely uninterested about anything [TS]

00:21:45   in the magical world and then two scenes [TS]

00:21:47   later he's like yeah I'm gonna go to [TS]

00:21:49   fillory why not well but there is a nice [TS]

00:21:51   there is a nice train there because the [TS]

00:21:53   reason that you know the reason that [TS]

00:21:55   that woman is also there is that she [TS]

00:21:57   also sort of caused the death of someone [TS]

00:21:59   write that she was really close to in [TS]

00:22:01   the same way that when you put himself [TS]

00:22:03   in danger and had to be rescued by Alice [TS]

00:22:05   who essentially you know commited [TS]

00:22:06   suicide to save them and so they're sort [TS]

00:22:09   of the argument at the end there is if [TS]

00:22:11   they gave our lives for us [TS]

00:22:12   like you know what we better make our [TS]

00:22:14   lives worthwhile right I think that's [TS]

00:22:15   sort of the that is the thing that sort [TS]

00:22:17   of i think saves that upswing at the end [TS]

00:22:19   a little bit is not so much that you [TS]

00:22:21   know [TS]

00:22:21   oh I guess I have nothing better to do [TS]

00:22:23   than go back in this world is more of a [TS]

00:22:24   well if we don't do something then you [TS]

00:22:26   know that their deaths didn't mean [TS]

00:22:27   anything [TS]

00:22:28   this is also a story that is about in it [TS]

00:22:32   if you had to say was about one thing I [TS]

00:22:34   would say it's it's about Narnia and [TS]

00:22:38   it's about the books and the concept so [TS]

00:22:41   even in the beginning you know he's [TS]

00:22:43   pushing through essentially the Wardrobe [TS]

00:22:45   to get brakebills he's obsessed with [TS]

00:22:47   these books they read as a kid they end [TS]

00:22:50   up going to this world because it turns [TS]

00:22:52   out to be real which I really enjoyed [TS]

00:22:53   that part that it that the fact that [TS]

00:22:55   wait a second [TS]

00:22:56   hilary is real after all and at the end [TS]

00:22:58   you know it's a Narnia is a series and [TS]

00:23:01   and there's detail about the fillory [TS]

00:23:03   series 2 and they keep the kids keep [TS]

00:23:05   going back right so I felt like you had [TS]

00:23:08   to have them go back at the end because [TS]

00:23:11   that's what it's about is they go back [TS]

00:23:13   to the magic land they that you just [TS]

00:23:15   that's how these books work as they go [TS]

00:23:17   back to what I view that is at a [TS]

00:23:19   meta-level that to that don't of course [TS]

00:23:21   they have to go back [TS]

00:23:22   that's when it's not everybody gets to [TS]

00:23:24   go back right right [TS]

00:23:26   maybe they had that last scene 2 because [TS]

00:23:28   if he'll head and throwing himself [TS]

00:23:29   through that glass window and he [TS]

00:23:30   couldn't save Trinity only a minute yeah [TS]

00:23:33   it was very matrix at the end wasn't [TS]

00:23:34   that was like a scene from the matrix [TS]

00:23:36   but they need cinnamon that was that was [TS]

00:23:38   the ok and then to get this the option [TS]

00:23:41   i'd have this scene at the end so goes [TS]

00:23:42   the movie with but I sort of had another [TS]

00:23:44   kind of like that because it was it was [TS]

00:23:45   I thought it through off some of the [TS]

00:23:47   ennui it's like you know you know it's [TS]

00:23:48   they could have ended this sort of you [TS]

00:23:50   know at the end of one hour under you [TS]

00:23:52   like the end of Brazil you know he's [TS]

00:23:54   gone insane and and in these dead to the [TS]

00:23:56   world and we're still a dystopia it's [TS]

00:23:57   like now this guy goes alright I'm gonna [TS]

00:23:59   throw myself out the window and is I i [TS]

00:24:02   can do magic [TS]

00:24:03   why am I here i'm gonna do that and I [TS]

00:24:06   yeah a good at least there wasn't [TS]

00:24:08   originally like an epilogue where it's [TS]

00:24:09   like you're the the bystanders walking [TS]

00:24:11   by see this guy plummet to his death [TS]

00:24:12   from not thank you [TS]

00:24:14   and I really want to pull the garbage [TS]

00:24:16   out for dinner someone cast a spell [TS]

00:24:17   silence over Scott McNulty we have to [TS]

00:24:19   release him from it yes got to remember [TS]

00:24:21   this book now [TS]

00:24:22   uh well to be fair I did read it three [TS]

00:24:24   years ago [TS]

00:24:25   so how didn't I tell you all that the [TS]

00:24:28   new button on you don't know I I was [TS]

00:24:31   just trying to recall any of these [TS]

00:24:32   details and all I remember about the [TS]

00:24:34   book was that the first part i [TS]

00:24:36   completely forgot they went to a magical [TS]

00:24:38   land and I remember the ending with the [TS]

00:24:41   exploding window so i really like the [TS]

00:24:44   entire moving it may be a good point [TS]

00:24:46   though that there really are these two [TS]

00:24:47   these two movements and you remember the [TS]

00:24:50   school stuff and there's this cool stuff [TS]

00:24:51   and then there's the magic land and when [TS]

00:24:53   I was talking to my wife afterward i [TS]

00:24:55   read this book and a and then I was [TS]

00:24:56   talking to her about this crazy book [TS]

00:24:58   that I read and I said you know as an [TS]

00:25:01   editor I look at this and think this [TS]

00:25:04   should have been two books [TS]

00:25:05   this should've been there would there [TS]

00:25:08   was it should have been cut into and [TS]

00:25:10   then both of them needed some work right [TS]

00:25:12   there should have been a book one that [TS]

00:25:13   was the magician's at school book one [TS]

00:25:16   would have been incredibly boring [TS]

00:25:19   well it needed a climax there was no [TS]

00:25:21   climax in that part of the book he [TS]

00:25:22   rushed through it too there's that one [TS]

00:25:24   point where he's like he's like oh wait [TS]

00:25:26   a minute 14 months just passed and we [TS]

00:25:27   don't know anybody how do we not make [TS]

00:25:29   any friends it was like there's a bit [TS]

00:25:30   when they say that like yeah how do we [TS]

00:25:32   not make any friends for the last year [TS]

00:25:33   and a half and you're like oh this is [TS]

00:25:34   that dream when you wake up and you [TS]

00:25:36   forgot to go to school for a year is [TS]

00:25:37   what it is so you you you know you you [TS]

00:25:41   can change the shape of a little bit too [TS]

00:25:42   but you have a little more of a climax [TS]

00:25:44   and whether that's the Antarctica stuff [TS]

00:25:46   or it's something else that climax with [TS]

00:25:48   them graduate more more quidditch I mean [TS]

00:25:50   Welters yes exactly [TS]

00:25:53   there could just run is a nap and I felt [TS]

00:25:55   like that would have been an interesting [TS]

00:25:57   book and then the second but it the [TS]

00:25:59   second half feels like a totally [TS]

00:26:01   different book which is hey you remember [TS]

00:26:03   all that fillory stuff it turns out that [TS]

00:26:06   it's real i will have an adventure there [TS]

00:26:08   he could have built more I if you [TS]

00:26:10   expanded the first part with school he [TS]

00:26:11   could have really interested in that [TS]

00:26:12   hole fillory thing a little more so it [TS]

00:26:14   would have been more shocking for the [TS]

00:26:15   second book like oh my god it really is [TS]

00:26:17   real but you do it now [TS]

00:26:20   now so that that's that and that struck [TS]

00:26:22   me about it that it just it felt like [TS]

00:26:24   this would [TS]

00:26:25   of I think works better because it feels [TS]

00:26:28   like two unfinished books if it had been [TS]

00:26:31   split into and been more finished and I [TS]

00:26:33   think because there's a lot of good [TS]

00:26:35   stuff in here but it does feel like you [TS]

00:26:38   know and this happens with novels a lot [TS]

00:26:39   is you know you write a novel and it [TS]

00:26:42   people will either publish it or they [TS]

00:26:44   won't and it's not that off that common [TS]

00:26:46   that somebody will say I like it but it [TS]

00:26:48   needs a lot of work and you should [TS]

00:26:49   probably break it into and you should do [TS]

00:26:51   this and just do that now if you like [TS]

00:26:52   this is one of those cases where just [TS]

00:26:54   cried out for somebody to say left this [TS]

00:26:56   is great stuff [TS]

00:26:57   you're very talented we need to do some [TS]

00:26:59   work on it and it seems like that didn't [TS]

00:27:00   happen you know why would I wouldn't [TS]

00:27:02   compare this in terms of plot or or [TS]

00:27:04   scale but the on the series of wonderful [TS]

00:27:06   books the blue Mars rover him Stanley [TS]

00:27:09   Robinson yeah tread marks cream learning [TS]

00:27:11   more wonderful series of books and Mars [TS]

00:27:14   tomorrow one of the most appropriate [TS]

00:27:16   Mars blue Mars and Mars blue eyes what [TS]

00:27:20   do you see the the thing about that [TS]

00:27:23   books characters incredibly richly drawn [TS]

00:27:25   characters some of them start out [TS]

00:27:27   extremely disinfected and sullen or even [TS]

00:27:30   you're angry at them are there they kill [TS]

00:27:32   people or whatever enters and evolution [TS]

00:27:34   through the book whereby they live for [TS]

00:27:36   like 200 years so yeah that's a nice [TS]

00:27:38   little gimmick might explain why i could [TS]

00:27:39   never finish that book takes to twitter [TS]

00:27:42   year so it's a beautiful is a beautiful [TS]

00:27:44   serious reading maybe we'll do an [TS]

00:27:45   episode on it but the but I mean there's [TS]

00:27:47   the evolution of character you can have [TS]

00:27:48   disaffected characters like I thought [TS]

00:27:50   the turning point was going to be with [TS]

00:27:51   Quentin and Alice like you know they had [TS]

00:27:52   that they're both disaffected Alice had [TS]

00:27:55   reasons actually a deep dark secrets and [TS]

00:27:57   Gretchen was just sort of a you know [TS]

00:27:58   jerky Brooklyn k just didn't appreciate [TS]

00:28:00   what he had been their magic but after [TS]

00:28:02   Antarctica i thought was going to happen [TS]

00:28:04   is ok this is the crucible we've gone [TS]

00:28:06   through a lot they go through America [TS]

00:28:07   they both have learned more about each [TS]

00:28:09   other and themselves and they're the [TS]

00:28:11   only two and five years like the boxes [TS]

00:28:13   there some foxes and they do that death [TS]

00:28:15   marks that bit that one of the best [TS]

00:28:17   moments the book the funniest thing is [TS]

00:28:18   they come back upon the portal back to [TS]

00:28:20   brakebills from Antarctica everyone is [TS]

00:28:22   sitting around and they're like you two [TS]

00:28:24   are the only idiots who did that [TS]

00:28:26   optional voluntary death march to the [TS]

00:28:30   pole but that's what i thought that was [TS]

00:28:32   the crucible and then you're going to [TS]

00:28:33   have this different thing where resolve [TS]

00:28:35   and different and they realize [TS]

00:28:36   and now there's still the same kind of [TS]

00:28:38   party around kids that they were before [TS]

00:28:40   yeah would have been really nice to [TS]

00:28:41   actually see them get to the point where [TS]

00:28:43   oh yes we've embraced what we're doing [TS]

00:28:46   and we're really invested in it and then [TS]

00:28:48   you take it you go back to New York you [TS]

00:28:50   have the slow sort of degradation the [TS]

00:28:52   idea that oh yeah back now that you're [TS]

00:28:54   back in the real world everything is [TS]

00:28:56   sort of crunching on in on you and I [TS]

00:28:58   think actually he has a really [TS]

00:29:00   interesting motif throughout the book [TS]

00:29:01   with the sort of the real world versus [TS]

00:29:04   the magic world and going back to the [TS]

00:29:06   magic world i mean not only do you have [TS]

00:29:08   it sort of the main characters but you [TS]

00:29:09   have it with the main antagonist you [TS]

00:29:11   have it with Martin and then you also [TS]

00:29:13   have sort of a weird foreshadowing with [TS]

00:29:15   Quentin's original non-magic world [TS]

00:29:19   classmate Julia who gets in for like the [TS]

00:29:21   first two rounds of tests at brakebills [TS]

00:29:24   and then gets booted out and is [TS]

00:29:26   convinced that she's gone crazy [TS]

00:29:28   yes exactly because she remembers even [TS]

00:29:31   though they tried to wipe her memory [TS]

00:29:32   about it and so she just goes around and [TS]

00:29:34   like she wants to get back into that [TS]

00:29:36   world and she even assaults question at [TS]

00:29:38   one point being like yeah I'm gonna get [TS]

00:29:40   back and you know you if you contrast [TS]

00:29:42   that with the Martin Chatwin stuff like [TS]

00:29:44   there's there's the underpinnings of a [TS]

00:29:46   really interesting book about the [TS]

00:29:49   disillusionment of magic and what [TS]

00:29:51   happens when you try and go back to a [TS]

00:29:53   world that you can't quite fit into and [TS]

00:29:55   that like that could be really really [TS]

00:29:58   well paired with growing up and stuff [TS]

00:30:00   like that but instead it for me it just [TS]

00:30:01   feels like a bunch of dissolute pieces [TS]

00:30:04   that are kind of plopped down together [TS]

00:30:05   side-by-side and like if you try and [TS]

00:30:08   connect the dots you can sort of see the [TS]

00:30:09   narrative but I was really offended by [TS]

00:30:12   one thing in the book I mean really [TS]

00:30:13   quite so which is when Martin challans [TS]

00:30:16   sister a laser system judge is this is [TS]

00:30:20   genuine jane says you know you shouldn't [TS]

00:30:22   judge my bar my brother too harshly [TS]

00:30:24   after all [TS]

00:30:25   plover the author of the fillory and you [TS]

00:30:27   know whatever books was doodling [TS]

00:30:29   everything God and I'm like oh come on [TS]

00:30:32   you throw that in this moment we [TS]

00:30:33   supposed to excuse somebody you know [TS]

00:30:35   it's like it's like saying well Paul [TS]

00:30:36   Pott you know his parents used to beat [TS]

00:30:38   him it's like yeah but you know I don't [TS]

00:30:41   go and kill it [TS]

00:30:42   this is that didn't bother me because I [TS]

00:30:44   didn't read that as being legitimately [TS]

00:30:47   excusing his behavior so much as [TS]

00:30:49   sensitive [TS]

00:30:50   much as tearing apart the the author and [TS]

00:30:53   saying you know this author was actually [TS]

00:30:54   an awful human being but what'll I do [TS]

00:30:57   see ya there very gotta put the detailed [TS]

00:30:59   the same extraneous me and I I agreed [TS]

00:31:01   sort of it it made me you know raise an [TS]

00:31:03   eyebrow just like you couldn't resist [TS]

00:31:05   turning that into something but I mean [TS]

00:31:06   it didn't bother you a didn't bother me [TS]

00:31:08   from the same way as being an excuse so [TS]

00:31:09   much it just seems like a ok [TS]

00:31:12   why isn't there like yes I understand [TS]

00:31:14   your point that in the scene [TS]

00:31:17   I mean it's a lot of the explicit stuff [TS]

00:31:19   throws in is just seems like it's some [TS]

00:31:20   for shock value like there's an fairly [TS]

00:31:22   early on with Elliot right where we're [TS]

00:31:24   quite and stumbles across him involved [TS]

00:31:26   in some sort of you know homosexual [TS]

00:31:28   tryst or whatever and you know that [TS]

00:31:30   informs us to a certain extent about his [TS]

00:31:32   character but you know at the same time [TS]

00:31:35   it seems you know unnecessarily graphic [TS]

00:31:39   or just don't dare to try and shock [TS]

00:31:41   people right it could have been done [TS]

00:31:42   better there's a movie prick up your [TS]

00:31:44   ears about Jordan the playwright and [TS]

00:31:45   there's a bit where after he wins a big [TS]

00:31:47   award he goes into it you know [TS]

00:31:48   aloo in England and manner all over him [TS]

00:31:51   and it's like and that was sort of it [TS]

00:31:52   was a contrast and terrifying and useful [TS]

00:31:54   and exploration of the characters as [TS]

00:31:56   opposed to let's degrade this guy while [TS]

00:31:58   the guy peeps his head up and then no [TS]

00:31:59   okay now we know all about it let's go [TS]

00:32:01   and talk about it anymore [TS]

00:32:02   yeah just ties into the book as in [TS]

00:32:04   general where it feels like Grossman [TS]

00:32:06   kind of got carte blanc to do whatever [TS]

00:32:07   he wanted in this book and occasionally [TS]

00:32:10   he takes it too far and there wasn't [TS]

00:32:12   that you know it [TS]

00:32:13   no no offense to his editors but there's [TS]

00:32:15   I it feels like there wasn't that hand [TS]

00:32:17   being like love love what did you told [TS]

00:32:20   that back a little bit so I to if we if [TS]

00:32:22   we would sum up the reaction here it [TS]

00:32:24   sounds like there's a lot of interesting [TS]

00:32:25   stuff in this book but that it's really [TS]

00:32:27   got a lot of flaws [TS]

00:32:30   there's a lot to slog through to get to [TS]

00:32:31   the interesting huh yeah and it makes me [TS]

00:32:34   really mad to think about it i would [TS]

00:32:36   even weeks later and ready for a ready [TS]

00:32:38   for the magician's the Phantom edit and [TS]

00:32:40   i'm going to read that one huh well you [TS]

00:32:42   can tell the sequel magician kings which [TS]

00:32:45   is available in bookstores near he heard [TS]

00:32:47   that I heard that might make me angry i [TS]

00:32:48   retired some people say that they liked [TS]

00:32:50   it better and then other people said [TS]

00:32:51   that it raged them and they liked the [TS]

00:32:53   first one and the second one so i really [TS]

00:32:54   don't know what to think I i haven't [TS]

00:32:56   read it for that reason I will say [TS]

00:32:58   something for that which we haven't said [TS]

00:32:59   which is actually a pretty good writer [TS]

00:33:00   he is interesting i think his character [TS]

00:33:02   strong but you know I don't [TS]

00:33:04   the book that I'm not bored or just [TS]

00:33:06   irritated by this one actually maybe [TS]

00:33:08   sort of angry about it and I think of [TS]

00:33:10   opening a strong emotional reaction is [TS]

00:33:11   actually you know that makes it [TS]

00:33:13   worthwhile i don't like it i'm not sure [TS]

00:33:14   i'd recommend other people that I still [TS]

00:33:16   commend him for writing in a fashion [TS]

00:33:17   that actually enraged me instead of [TS]

00:33:19   bored me i liked it i mean i want you i [TS]

00:33:21   I think it's flawed but i enjoyed [TS]

00:33:23   reading it and I think it could could [TS]

00:33:25   have been better [TS]

00:33:26   absolutely but some of these scenes will [TS]

00:33:29   stick with me and I you know I i enjoyed [TS]

00:33:33   the ride and I didn't mind that the [TS]

00:33:35   characters were unlikable because that [TS]

00:33:37   was ok with me that they weren't they [TS]

00:33:39   weren't likable it's true that but I [TS]

00:33:41   don't know I i enjoyed it [TS]

00:33:43   I've read all those Narnia books I mean [TS]

00:33:45   I it's no sin for character to be [TS]

00:33:46   unlikable is my feeling it's a it's a [TS]

00:33:49   sin for them to be unlikable and [TS]

00:33:50   uninteresting [TS]

00:33:52   I mean I'm not saying that's necessarily [TS]

00:33:55   the case here but I think about you just [TS]

00:33:57   too and generally people people often [TS]

00:33:59   criticized you know like madmen for [TS]

00:34:01   having like characters they're full of [TS]

00:34:02   Michael people like yeah they're [TS]

00:34:03   unlikable that's true but they're [TS]

00:34:05   interesting in and so dislike them that [TS]

00:34:08   you don't like dislike them on the [TS]

00:34:10   screen but you can't stop watching them [TS]

00:34:12   with supporting cast in the magician's [TS]

00:34:14   is not strong supporting cast their eyes [TS]

00:34:19   yeah besides you know the sort of few [TS]

00:34:22   main characters i think there's there's [TS]

00:34:23   very few that stand out all the [TS]

00:34:25   professor's become interchangeable and I [TS]

00:34:26   think that's probably also a failed sort [TS]

00:34:29   of thrust harry potter am and I was [TS]

00:34:32   going to ask if anyone does anyone have [TS]

00:34:33   a favorite character or they all equally [TS]

00:34:35   unlikable because i have a favorite [TS]

00:34:36   character bicurious anyone else does [TS]

00:34:39   and I'm thinking oh yeah i would go with [TS]

00:34:41   a second i can't remember his name [TS]

00:34:43   because it was long in Russian but the [TS]

00:34:45   guy that Antarctica the guy never mind i [TS]

00:34:47   think i think he was the most [TS]

00:34:49   interesting he has very very little [TS]

00:34:50   dialogue but he was in compelling [TS]

00:34:51   character especially sort of filling his [TS]

00:34:53   backstory later and go ahead when I like [TS]

00:34:57   I like penny because parents would text [TS]

00:34:59   workable and crazy and turns out to find [TS]

00:35:02   the key the key plot element into sorta [TS]

00:35:04   he's easygoing as I went along nemesis [TS]

00:35:07   and yet he becomes actually vitally [TS]

00:35:08   important right but he he is kind of his [TS]

00:35:10   own plot like he's in a whole different [TS]

00:35:12   story and his whole don't think anybody [TS]

00:35:15   would be very interesting because at the [TS]

00:35:16   end of your weekend really badly [TS]

00:35:19   yeah and he's got fake hands and he [TS]

00:35:21   opens his hands he goes he reads books [TS]

00:35:22   for the rest of his life apparently it's [TS]

00:35:24   a totally different life than everyone [TS]

00:35:26   else in the book but but what I like [TS]

00:35:28   about that character is his interaction [TS]

00:35:29   with Quinn I mean basically there's a [TS]

00:35:31   there is a great scene where there [TS]

00:35:33   you've set this guy up as well i kind of [TS]

00:35:35   don't like him and but I'm sure I [TS]

00:35:36   whatever i'm not going to pay attention [TS]

00:35:37   to him and then penny kinda like walks [TS]

00:35:39   out of the school building and walks [TS]

00:35:41   right up to Quinton and places with the [TS]

00:35:43   notes and they get in a fight and I [TS]

00:35:45   liked that too that it's like we're over [TS]

00:35:47   at the Magic School and like I don't [TS]

00:35:49   like this guy will [TS]

00:35:50   well in harry potter it's like Oh mouth [TS]

00:35:52   boy you better watch out [TS]

00:35:54   and in this it's like no I'm gonna punch [TS]

00:35:55   you in the face and there's something [TS]

00:35:57   about that way with penny that he was [TS]

00:35:58   very direct very direct fellow i'm just [TS]

00:36:00   going to punish you now [TS]

00:36:01   yeah it's in your boys sense to me yeah [TS]

00:36:04   I don't know about that it was but it [TS]

00:36:06   was amusing you know don't enjoy it [TS]

00:36:08   enjoy it anyway he's in his own book [TS]

00:36:10   yeah he's reading for the pools in the [TS]

00:36:12   in the little place that's between the [TS]

00:36:15   world [TS]

00:36:16   ok let's move on to the Night Circus by [TS]

00:36:18   Erin Morgenstern I this is from last [TS]

00:36:21   year [TS]

00:36:22   this is like I said it's a national [TS]

00:36:24   novel writing month book originally she [TS]

00:36:28   didn't know what to do with your [TS]

00:36:29   characters so she sent them to the [TS]

00:36:30   circus and then aha [TS]

00:36:33   the circus might be an interesting [TS]

00:36:34   subject for a book so this is a you know [TS]

00:36:37   a story set in mostly in and around [TS]

00:36:40   London although not it's also in Europe [TS]

00:36:41   in the in the united states there to [TS]

00:36:44   time frames in it which is kind of [TS]

00:36:46   surprising and interesting arguably [TS]

00:36:48   three wedding and how yeah I suppose [TS]

00:36:51   that I suppose that's true [TS]

00:36:53   it's basically about these two people [TS]

00:36:56   Celia and marco who are chosen as [TS]

00:36:59   players in a game between two older [TS]

00:37:03   gentleman who are playing a long game [TS]

00:37:06   that we don't know the details of and [TS]

00:37:09   and Celia and marco are the players and [TS]

00:37:11   so they're sort of set against each [TS]

00:37:13   other and in a game that that you know [TS]

00:37:16   nobody knows the rules of and magic is [TS]

00:37:18   at the center of it and and and there's [TS]

00:37:20   a creation of a circus and there are [TS]

00:37:22   lots of circus people all of whom are [TS]

00:37:24   doing magical things and it's a it's [TS]

00:37:28   just a strange and I evocative and I [TS]

00:37:32   thought really charming charming book [TS]

00:37:35   and I I liked it a lot [TS]

00:37:37   so what do you guys think has anybody [TS]

00:37:39   ever watched the same way ever watch the [TS]

00:37:42   HBO show carnevale new episodes remind [TS]

00:37:46   you about a lot of the tone that that's [TS]

00:37:49   much darker and much more disturbed but [TS]

00:37:51   it also takes place at a traveling [TS]

00:37:52   carnival and also involves sort of a [TS]

00:37:54   that's more of a good and evil Battle [TS]

00:37:57   like but there is also an element of [TS]

00:37:58   magic well up to it but I mean it'sit's [TS]

00:38:01   distinct but the tone reminded me of a [TS]

00:38:03   lot and I like carnival a lot and I like [TS]

00:38:04   the night circus a lot as well it sort [TS]

00:38:07   of reminded me of that but set in a you [TS]

00:38:09   know Jonathan strange and mr normal [TS]

00:38:11   universe to allude to another [TS]

00:38:12   yeah right look right it's this [TS]

00:38:15   Victorian so you got the Victorian areas [TS]

00:38:16   it's like the late eighteen hundreds and [TS]

00:38:18   early nineteen hundreds and and so [TS]

00:38:21   you've got that tone which is really [TS]

00:38:24   nice you've got like English you know [TS]

00:38:26   big English kind of manner buildings and [TS]

00:38:29   rooms and things and then the circus [TS]

00:38:31   structure and the Traveling Circus and [TS]

00:38:33   there's there's magic and the magic [TS]

00:38:36   that's done is interesting and that [TS]

00:38:38   they're like kinds of magic and they're [TS]

00:38:40   they're very limited things that they [TS]

00:38:42   can do with the way that they make their [TS]

00:38:44   magic in this circus that they that they [TS]

00:38:46   build and then they have the different [TS]

00:38:49   talents of the the others that the [TS]

00:38:50   person who construct the the the clock [TS]

00:38:53   that's at the circus it's just it's a [TS]

00:38:56   mean there's a lot in there but it's and [TS]

00:38:58   at its core two are these two characters [TS]

00:39:01   who are on a collision course with one [TS]

00:39:03   another from the very beginning you know [TS]

00:39:05   it [TS]

00:39:05   in contrast with magicians the amount of [TS]

00:39:09   supporting characters in this book is [TS]

00:39:12   huge and I feel like almost every single [TS]

00:39:14   one of them is very well fleshed out [TS]

00:39:17   whether we get a point of view chapter [TS]

00:39:18   from them or not it's it's really [TS]

00:39:20   interesting the amount of sort of [TS]

00:39:22   different sub sections that we go into [TS]

00:39:25   inside the book because you get the [TS]

00:39:27   overarch the overarching story is [TS]

00:39:29   basically a love story disguised as a [TS]

00:39:30   competition which is fascinating but you [TS]

00:39:33   also have you have the undercurrent of [TS]

00:39:35   the person who basically puts on the [TS]

00:39:37   circus who is more or less unaware until [TS]

00:39:40   later on that he is basically being [TS]

00:39:42   played as part of a competition but you [TS]

00:39:44   have this whole section where he's [TS]

00:39:46   basically planning how to build the [TS]

00:39:48   circus and you get into his mind like a [TS]

00:39:50   producer even though you never even you [TS]

00:39:52   never get a point-of-view character for [TS]

00:39:54   this for this person you only get him [TS]

00:39:56   through the eyes of Marco who's [TS]

00:39:58   basically become his his assistant in [TS]

00:40:00   order to manipulate aspects of the [TS]

00:40:02   circus but his his whole track and the [TS]

00:40:05   track of the other sort of patrons of [TS]

00:40:07   the circus are that that track is [TS]

00:40:09   fascinating [TS]

00:40:11   I thought it was a beautiful book and I [TS]

00:40:14   agree with run out of the characters [TS]

00:40:16   means even the minor ones are richly [TS]

00:40:19   fleshed out and it seemed both spare and [TS]

00:40:22   full of details so you could be part of [TS]

00:40:25   it was fasting that later that it was a [TS]

00:40:26   night circus is open at night and things [TS]

00:40:28   are either white or black often and read [TS]

00:40:30   was used as that theme to identify the [TS]

00:40:32   people are sort of became associated [TS]

00:40:35   with and traveled with to see the circus [TS]

00:40:36   but and the red is the color of one of [TS]

00:40:39   the twins hair is born at midnight when [TS]

00:40:41   the bonfires lived in the bonfire is [TS]

00:40:43   multicolored and there's just don't know [TS]

00:40:45   everything was it felt like it was full [TS]

00:40:47   of imagery and symbolism but without [TS]

00:40:50   anyone having to take upon a specific [TS]

00:40:52   heavy-handed being and even the fact [TS]

00:40:54   that i always liked books that involve [TS]

00:40:56   magic or even sometimes science fiction [TS]

00:40:59   where the issues are dispensed with [TS]

00:41:01   really fast so we don't actually really [TS]

00:41:02   care what the basis of magic is in this [TS]

00:41:04   book it's not discussed it sort of waved [TS]

00:41:06   away but it feels a realistic in the [TS]

00:41:09   sense that it's consistent and it arises [TS]

00:41:12   out of effort and will in a way that is [TS]

00:41:15   consistent among all the characters [TS]

00:41:16   involved throughout the book [TS]

00:41:18   and I like the the light touch their [TS]

00:41:21   let's treat it like a craft craft right [TS]

00:41:25   everything kind of makes sense in the [TS]

00:41:27   way that a certain things happen in the [TS]

00:41:30   plot and there's a lot of kids a lot of [TS]

00:41:31   books to read and you'd be like well why [TS]

00:41:34   didn't this thing do this at this point [TS]

00:41:35   you know I was thinking particular i [TS]

00:41:36   just finished this book earlier the [TS]

00:41:38   before the recording here so I'm [TS]

00:41:40   thinking in particular the ending where [TS]

00:41:43   you know sort of the circus has been [TS]

00:41:45   suspended [TS]

00:41:46   well as issues are worked out and are [TS]

00:41:51   one of our protagonist from the other [TS]

00:41:52   timeline a young young man was sort of [TS]

00:41:55   being chosen to be the next proprietor [TS]

00:41:58   of the circus [TS]

00:42:00   he's sort of going around investigating [TS]

00:42:02   why everyone is sort of frozen in the [TS]

00:42:03   circus and there's one person who is [TS]

00:42:05   there to sort of breed him that the [TS]

00:42:06   contortionist and so so they can't [TS]

00:42:10   the question is why is she able to walk [TS]

00:42:11   around with nobody elses and you know [TS]

00:42:14   the answer is well she's sort of a [TS]

00:42:16   magician in her own right [TS]

00:42:17   it's not important that we know the [TS]

00:42:19   mechanics exactly haha she was immune to [TS]

00:42:21   their power is based on this message was [TS]

00:42:23   like oh she kinda knows magic [TS]

00:42:25   yeah it makes sense of it doesn't need [TS]

00:42:27   the detail and she was in the end it's [TS]

00:42:29   the balance of the love story there's so [TS]

00:42:31   many balanced forces of sort of love and [TS]

00:42:34   jealousy and loss and there are neatly [TS]

00:42:36   arranged so you're just like oh of [TS]

00:42:38   course she's the one she's the one that [TS]

00:42:40   was gradually revealed that she been a [TS]

00:42:42   competitor in a previous round of this [TS]

00:42:44   competition and so it makes sense and [TS]

00:42:46   the kid who is sort of brought us a [TS]

00:42:48   prior like his need for change in just [TS]

00:42:51   had the fact that he comes along is that [TS]

00:42:53   happenstance things happen in the book [TS]

00:42:54   for what seemed to be accidental reasons [TS]

00:42:57   but there's almost a purpose or fate [TS]

00:42:58   behind them and you just accept that [TS]

00:43:00   because it's part i mean the book is all [TS]

00:43:02   about everything being balanced and [TS]

00:43:04   whatever the balance goes off there's a [TS]

00:43:05   great scene you know relatively in the [TS]

00:43:08   book where the lover of Marcos lover [TS]

00:43:10   realizes that he never really loved her [TS]

00:43:12   and it over not a horrible way she [TS]

00:43:14   doesn't you know go totally nuts but she [TS]

00:43:16   had learned enough magic to keep both [TS]

00:43:19   Marco and his opponent in balance and [TS]

00:43:21   she unravels that and then the book [TS]

00:43:23   starts to wind up the clock starts to [TS]

00:43:25   spring start to pop out basically and [TS]

00:43:27   things start to happen sorry good better [TS]

00:43:29   for it and the flies all over the place [TS]

00:43:31   but it was [TS]

00:43:31   it made perfect sense it's like she was [TS]

00:43:33   so the linchpin is is various people are [TS]

00:43:35   in love and the clockmaker being in love [TS]

00:43:38   with don't forget her name with the with [TS]

00:43:41   Celia that's a that's a lovely bit [TS]

00:43:44   though the fact that clock maker who I [TS]

00:43:45   you know supposed to be slightly older I [TS]

00:43:47   guess and they have some kind of love [TS]

00:43:49   affair but it's not it's not as deep as [TS]

00:43:51   the one with Marco but she loves him in [TS]

00:43:53   a certain way and that doesn't become [TS]

00:43:55   this strange twisted thing it's just [TS]

00:43:56   part of all the mechanics of the of the [TS]

00:44:00   you can kind of get away with that in a [TS]

00:44:01   Victorian gettin awful [TS]

00:44:03   that's right yeah i think it's also [TS]

00:44:04   almost an intellectual of a fair mother [TS]

00:44:07   has any kind of physical thing because [TS]

00:44:08   he is you know he happens to be the [TS]

00:44:11   maker of the clock and then he also ends [TS]

00:44:13   up being basically the voice for the [TS]

00:44:15   circus to the general public who wants [TS]

00:44:17   to know more about it is the divorce fan [TS]

00:44:20   yeah 100 feet I'm your biggest and then [TS]

00:44:22   he's interviewing him he created his boy [TS]

00:44:24   he's killed in the clinic starts the [TS]

00:44:27   Clippers killed in the clock starts the [TS]

00:44:28   one down right [TS]

00:44:29   ok that is one of the that that is a [TS]

00:44:31   affecting scene 2 which is how it's [TS]

00:44:34   beautiful [TS]

00:44:35   can I just say I love I mean she's for a [TS]

00:44:38   first-time rider she has a impeccable [TS]

00:44:40   control over the language in terms of [TS]

00:44:43   however loss places except for not such [TS]

00:44:46   a loser for what purpose places she's [TS]

00:44:49   continually gluing to set in dialogues [TS]

00:44:51   will continually good two sentences [TS]

00:44:53   together with a comma which is I think [TS]

00:44:55   done for painting but it drives me [TS]

00:44:57   insane with it [TS]

00:44:58   well that she's a she's a beautiful [TS]

00:44:59   writer and and with the exception of her [TS]

00:45:02   comma splices which I I think you might [TS]

00:45:03   be able to forgive as a style choice he [TS]

00:45:06   received overly intention language so [TS]

00:45:08   that way there's no way and editors [TS]

00:45:10   gonna let that many of them go [TS]

00:45:12   it's like yeah you're doing comma [TS]

00:45:14   splices but really I got to talk to live [TS]

00:45:16   Grossman about his book to read [TS]

00:45:18   I don't get ready first-time novelists [TS]

00:45:20   who are very few with this beauty that [TS]

00:45:23   um what's the one who wrote the hundred [TS]

00:45:26   thousand kingdoms NK jemisin yeah [TS]

00:45:28   yes i returned to you for all the names [TS]

00:45:30   you always i mentioned how much I love [TS]

00:45:32   the book on Twitter and lisas [TS]

00:45:34   spangenberg who's an author and editor [TS]

00:45:37   she went with her friend she said that [TS]

00:45:39   the book was actually workshop not just [TS]

00:45:41   on [TS]

00:45:42   nanowrimo but on what's called aww is an [TS]

00:45:45   author's forum that people use and she [TS]

00:45:47   was apparently great participate in it [TS]

00:45:49   and listen to suggestions and is [TS]

00:45:51   incredibly generous with her time now [TS]

00:45:54   after the book is coming out so [TS]

00:45:55   interesting that it just it has that [TS]

00:45:57   sense of having been you know you think [TS]

00:45:59   it's someone's fourth book but the IMF [TS]

00:46:02   is the first she wrote you know [TS]

00:46:03   sometimes people have the first as we [TS]

00:46:04   all know first and second in the drawer [TS]

00:46:06   the third is the first one is published [TS]

00:46:07   but it does feel like a mature novelist [TS]

00:46:09   so I read a criticism of this book from [TS]

00:46:12   somebody just you know people on the [TS]

00:46:13   internet people who don't like this book [TS]

00:46:15   seemed to not like it because they say [TS]

00:46:16   well it's all just descriptions of [TS]

00:46:19   things and nothing much happens because [TS]

00:46:22   it was so much the scribing of items and [TS]

00:46:25   the colors and and details of things [TS]

00:46:30   like so basically can help this is what [TS]

00:46:32   I'll say is if if what you're looking [TS]

00:46:33   for out of a novel is a series of plot [TS]

00:46:36   if pot points and events [TS]

00:46:38   yes this book might disappoint you a [TS]

00:46:40   little bit because because a lot of the [TS]

00:46:42   a lot of it not all that there is a plot [TS]

00:46:44   there is there is a lot of flavor club [TS]

00:46:46   but there's a lot of like there's a lot [TS]

00:46:48   of describing of the scene and it's a [TS]

00:46:49   fantastical setting and instead of [TS]

00:46:52   saying [TS]

00:46:53   suffice it to say it's a magic circus [TS]

00:46:54   now let's get down to the business of [TS]

00:46:56   the plot of the thing that didn't happen [TS]

00:46:58   what I like too much about it is is that [TS]

00:47:01   it's very atmospheric and it treats [TS]

00:47:03   magic as something that is special [TS]

00:47:06   yeah and and precious right so you so [TS]

00:47:08   many of these fantasy books read magic [TS]

00:47:10   is just part of you ever get out of this [TS]

00:47:12   magic there's magic guy who cares [TS]

00:47:15   it makes me i'm still a teenager and i'm [TS]

00:47:17   still a bit of an ass but I in this book [TS]

00:47:21   it's like it's magic it's it's magical [TS]

00:47:24   there's no other way to describe it it's [TS]

00:47:25   just like when I was as i was reading it [TS]

00:47:27   and I am known not to like an adult [TS]

00:47:29   fiction but I felt it made me feel like [TS]

00:47:32   a kid again reading a book which is a [TS]

00:47:35   great kind of feeling to have right yeah [TS]

00:47:37   that it's fantastical like that yes the [TS]

00:47:40   magic is special and when they do it's [TS]

00:47:41   weird and elemental and and sometimes [TS]

00:47:46   it's whimsical and sometimes it's scary [TS]

00:47:47   but it's never it's never pedestrian [TS]

00:47:51   it's never boring [TS]

00:47:52   it's only it's always hoggin all with [TS]

00:47:55   their match [TS]

00:47:55   or something you know yeah the magic is [TS]

00:47:57   magical excited me a little bit of uh I [TS]

00:48:00   know a lot of people talk about the [TS]

00:48:02   prestige which is a a book and a movie [TS]

00:48:04   set in sort of Victorian England but the [TS]

00:48:07   one that reminds me a little bit more as [TS]

00:48:09   they came around the same time as a [TS]

00:48:10   movie called The Illusionist with a [TS]

00:48:11   normal which also has a beautiful it's a [TS]

00:48:15   extremely atmospheric movie I highly [TS]

00:48:19   recommended by the way it's out it's [TS]

00:48:20   actually very clear those movies are [TS]

00:48:22   under all those movies are good they're [TS]

00:48:23   very different as an illusionist yes is [TS]

00:48:26   reminds me more of this be its own the [TS]

00:48:29   illusionist is also more of a love story [TS]

00:48:30   first edition arguably you you know [TS]

00:48:33   there's something funny i was reading [TS]

00:48:34   the book and I couldn't put my finger on [TS]

00:48:36   what made it seem familiar and after a [TS]

00:48:38   while I realized it reminded me of [TS]

00:48:40   moby-dick which may sound ridiculous [TS]

00:48:42   this is the descriptions no prescription [TS]

00:48:45   is very well and and I really got me so [TS]

00:48:48   the it that richness is that people read [TS]

00:48:50   you know I'm sure we'll have to read it [TS]

00:48:52   in high school and i'm reading a high [TS]

00:48:53   school thing is the most boring thing [TS]

00:48:54   which everyone does then i read it as an [TS]

00:48:56   adult discovered Moby Dick is actually [TS]

00:48:57   hilarious if you're not reading it [TS]

00:48:59   tendentious Lee and analyzing everything [TS]

00:49:01   it's a hilarious book but it's also [TS]

00:49:03   every chapter and all the descriptions [TS]

00:49:05   of the obtaining of the spur bassetti [TS]

00:49:07   and all the rest of it it's it builds up [TS]

00:49:09   this incredibly rich picture building up [TS]

00:49:11   this inventory in the storehouse of your [TS]

00:49:13   mind into which then the story unfolds [TS]

00:49:15   and it's a you know weird literary [TS]

00:49:17   convention not to make away with that I [TS]

00:49:18   felt she did parts of that is she [TS]

00:49:20   interleaved the narrative so it wasn't [TS]

00:49:22   purely descriptive but there is a lot of [TS]

00:49:24   it that was building up this storehouse [TS]

00:49:25   the powder keg of all these forces [TS]

00:49:27   arrayed in a lot of detail and [TS]

00:49:29   background stories and then at the end [TS]

00:49:32   it's just explosion explosion explosion [TS]

00:49:33   explosion but you understood it all in [TS]

00:49:36   that bigger context she created i love [TS]

00:49:38   the moment in this book where r2 r2 [TS]

00:49:42   participants finally really come [TS]

00:49:44   together which involves a torrential [TS]

00:49:47   downpour and a magic umbrella you stole [TS]

00:49:50   the scene right from my mouth that is [TS]

00:49:52   probably like oh it's beautiful is a [TS]

00:49:54   fantastic memorable scene and you know [TS]

00:49:58   there aren't that many bits of all right [TS]

00:50:00   it does a great job of ratcheting things [TS]

00:50:02   up without spelling everything out right [TS]

00:50:04   there's still some suspense at the end [TS]

00:50:06   of it they have now identified each [TS]

00:50:07   other but and he invites her fridge [TS]

00:50:09   drink right and then she goes maybe some [TS]

00:50:11   other time and then disappear that I was [TS]

00:50:13   a great if you could sort of it's not [TS]

00:50:16   you know the balance doesn't tip right [TS]

00:50:18   in one direction or the other it's sort [TS]

00:50:20   of not even if anything that's the scene [TS]

00:50:21   that the levels it and i think one of [TS]

00:50:24   the things I really liked about this in [TS]

00:50:26   some ways that I you know I realized i [TS]

00:50:28   found myself anticipating and seeing a [TS]

00:50:30   lot of the plots points coming but it's [TS]

00:50:32   not i think there's an amount of [TS]

00:50:34   predictability in certain books that is [TS]

00:50:36   not necessarily a bad thing and it's [TS]

00:50:38   kind of reassuring it's like putting a [TS]

00:50:39   puzzle together when you kind of know [TS]

00:50:40   what the picture is supposed to be so [TS]

00:50:43   there's a certain joy in revealing it as [TS]

00:50:45   you go in finding out how those pieces [TS]

00:50:47   together right so I i think that that [TS]

00:50:49   for me like I could see how some of [TS]

00:50:52   these things were progressing but [TS]

00:50:53   there's a satisfaction in in seeing it [TS]

00:50:55   come together the way that you expected [TS]

00:50:57   absolutely and to the description note i [TS]

00:51:00   would say that those individual tense [TS]

00:51:03   within the circus are so fantastical [TS]

00:51:06   that the description like I'm i am anti [TS]

00:51:09   Charles Dickens because of his excessive [TS]

00:51:11   description but that said like the the [TS]

00:51:14   description of each of the tents and how [TS]

00:51:16   they work and you know all this one is [TS]

00:51:18   is ice and this one is clouds this does [TS]

00:51:21   this reminds me there's a I'm san [TS]

00:51:23   Francisco has a has a night truck thing [TS]

00:51:27   that happens basically twice a year [TS]

00:51:29   three times a year Brooklyn has this as [TS]

00:51:31   well and I think it originated in [TS]

00:51:32   Brooklyn where it's just a bunch of [TS]

00:51:34   theater people rent boxcar trucks and [TS]

00:51:37   make fantastical elements within them [TS]

00:51:41   and i actually got to go to one of these [TS]

00:51:42   last year and like they're all cut like [TS]

00:51:44   I felt very similar reading this book [TS]

00:51:47   and like looking at the the various [TS]

00:51:48   tents to actually go to the get that [TS]

00:51:51   boxcar the evening market because the [TS]

00:51:55   the truck was like one of the trucks i [TS]

00:51:56   went to was a Brigadoon library only [TS]

00:51:59   appears once every hundred years or once [TS]

00:52:02   every yeah once every hundred years and [TS]

00:52:03   then there was one where they did items [TS]

00:52:07   in liquid nitrogen and then they just [TS]

00:52:09   smash them so it's like it's all that [TS]

00:52:11   you know the mix of the fantastical and [TS]

00:52:13   me and the Jermaine and I don't know it [TS]

00:52:17   was just having having had that [TS]

00:52:18   experience I think it made the novel [TS]

00:52:20   that my [TS]

00:52:21   more interesting to me that one of the [TS]

00:52:23   multiple perspectives is is a great way [TS]

00:52:26   to get you to see the circus because we [TS]

00:52:29   have the you know the story of sort of [TS]

00:52:31   like you are entering the circus and and [TS]

00:52:34   you're seeing what's happening in the [TS]

00:52:35   circus from from this perspective that [TS]

00:52:37   sort of outside and you've got the story [TS]

00:52:39   of the kid who is dared by his sister to [TS]

00:52:44   break in to the circus when you're not [TS]

00:52:46   supposed to go there and he and he meets [TS]

00:52:48   a girl and she gives him something as [TS]

00:52:51   proof and then he leaves and you think [TS]

00:52:53   well that's an interesting little thing [TS]

00:52:54   but of course it's actually part of the [TS]

00:52:55   story and it's a different part of the [TS]

00:52:58   timeline so you are learning things that [TS]

00:53:00   you later on you you really started [TS]

00:53:02   flipping back and forth like okay when [TS]

00:53:03   you have you guys did that take place [TS]

00:53:05   ok hold on it and it sort of starts to [TS]

00:53:07   dovetail right like towards the ethical [TS]

00:53:08   look you look at the new music [TS]

00:53:10   it gives you dates you're like what [TS]

00:53:11   blood date whatever its 1908 its unity [TS]

00:53:14   through whatever and then you realize oh [TS]

00:53:16   Jesus the dates matter because this girl [TS]

00:53:18   that we met hasn't been born at well [TS]

00:53:21   isn't that clever how they I love the [TS]

00:53:22   bit about where maybe this happened [TS]

00:53:25   everyone knows about I don't know [TS]

00:53:26   quarter of the third of the way through [TS]

00:53:27   and so then I'm like these people are [TS]

00:53:29   too old but with with a minute and then [TS]

00:53:31   right when you realize that then she [TS]

00:53:34   starts to reveal and then it becomes a [TS]

00:53:36   thing and she sort of explains it but it [TS]

00:53:38   is it's in there if you look as I [TS]

00:53:40   noticed it fairly early on that they're [TS]

00:53:41   like you know we don't seem to be you [TS]

00:53:44   know getting any older her its it starts [TS]

00:53:47   to come in and you realize there's [TS]

00:53:48   something something very peculiar and [TS]

00:53:50   you have that terribly tragic scene [TS]

00:53:52   right with one of the twins [TS]

00:53:53   oh gosh yeah doesn't want to [TS]

00:53:57   we just can't handle you know everything [TS]

00:53:59   being so magical and mystical and ends [TS]

00:54:01   up you know more or less [TS]

00:54:03   well she doesn't commit suicide but [TS]

00:54:05   she's sort of drawn into sort of the i [TS]

00:54:07   entice to the later [TS]

00:54:09   yeah right by a train because you look [TS]

00:54:11   at the proprietor as well of the certain [TS]

00:54:14   that the provider but the person who [TS]

00:54:15   produced the circus yeah yeah yeahs and [TS]

00:54:18   watch him slowly go insane [TS]

00:54:21   it's it's kind of horrifying a little [TS]

00:54:24   all the background you have Prospero the [TS]

00:54:27   enchanter and the enter enigmatic mr. [TS]

00:54:29   and i love this mr. aah [TS]

00:54:32   chef Victoria also very Victorian oh I i [TS]

00:54:36   love that is so the separation and [TS]

00:54:39   Prospero is Caelius father who he and [TS]

00:54:42   she's delivered to him and he's like [TS]

00:54:44   yeah I guess she's one of mine he [TS]

00:54:45   realizes she's got magic energy is like [TS]

00:54:47   all right well that's good and uh [TS]

00:54:49   there's great stuff with him because you [TS]

00:54:52   know you could do this is a almost lost [TS]

00:54:54   kind of you know there's a abandoned [TS]

00:54:57   black man and white and they have a game [TS]

00:54:59   but goes on with the return but they're [TS]

00:55:01   both kind of dicks like if they're bet [TS]

00:55:03   it's exactly yeah it's you don't have [TS]

00:55:05   that here and then prosper also you're [TS]

00:55:07   like oh he's magic and and he's like [TS]

00:55:09   yeah but he kind of is trying to do [TS]

00:55:11   something to himself and he makes [TS]

00:55:12   everybody starts to disappear rules [TS]

00:55:14   that's the most beautiful thousand [TS]

00:55:16   beautiful intelligent market when Marco [TS]

00:55:18   asks like an amber necklace Ilya s Celia [TS]

00:55:22   says what happened to your father he [TS]

00:55:24   said well imagine what was the [TS]

00:55:25   description was if you take a glass of [TS]

00:55:27   wine and your crew and you remove the [TS]

00:55:29   glass if you did that in a bowl of water [TS]

00:55:32   it's one thing but if you do in the [TS]

00:55:33   ocean it's another well he tried for the [TS]

00:55:35   ocean equipment like oh wow yeah and so [TS]

00:55:39   he's he's he's kind of a ghost now and [TS]

00:55:41   then mr. a you know eh ok under in [TS]

00:55:45   common [TS]

00:55:46   yeah Alexandra generates not and the you [TS]

00:55:49   know and they have their game that [TS]

00:55:51   continues to go on and it's I i love [TS]

00:55:54   that and that again is a way where we're [TS]

00:55:55   that's a thing we've seen before and yet [TS]

00:55:58   it didn't feel like it kind of comes out [TS]

00:56:00   drinking [TS]

00:56:01   I mean in some ways it's it kind of ends [TS]

00:56:03   up being it's like nature versus nurture [TS]

00:56:05   right is essentially a kind of what [TS]

00:56:07   they're arguing right is that we hit you [TS]

00:56:10   know Alexander says I can pluck you know [TS]

00:56:12   someone out and more orphanage [TS]

00:56:14   yeah and teach him magic and he will be [TS]

00:56:16   able to beat someone who you you know [TS]

00:56:18   who is like naturally talented i could [TS]

00:56:21   pull this flower girl from in front of [TS]

00:56:23   this offer house and the teacher how to [TS]

00:56:25   speak with great elocutionist well as I [TS]

00:56:27   think it's interesting because Prospero [TS]

00:56:30   is basically arguing for magic as flash [TS]

00:56:32   to a certain extent basically using it [TS]

00:56:35   is really lush yeah we're at but the [TS]

00:56:37   entirety of the circus is in a way [TS]

00:56:40   magic is flash but with very different [TS]

00:56:43   contours based on whether it's sealed [TS]

00:56:45   his attraction or marcos attraction and [TS]

00:56:48   the beauty of this whole thing is that [TS]

00:56:49   you know as you see these two characters [TS]

00:56:50   collide and you realize that they're [TS]

00:56:53   going to fall in love and you're gonna [TS]

00:56:55   have that moment where where the old men [TS]

00:56:58   who are playing a little game we're [TS]

00:56:59   gonna be like no no no no no your [TS]

00:57:02   opponent's you can't no no no no and it [TS]

00:57:06   that's it that's enjoyable to see the [TS]

00:57:08   like know they're sorry guys we are in [TS]

00:57:11   love now you know that there is it seems [TS]

00:57:14   you know to me it was one of those again [TS]

00:57:15   one of those sort of predictable [TS]

00:57:16   elements that I saw coming but still you [TS]

00:57:18   know saver done the last was that whole [TS]

00:57:20   one of you has to die right here like in [TS]

00:57:23   order for this game to end like you can [TS]

00:57:25   in some ways I i was surprised that they [TS]

00:57:27   don't like that silly and Marco don't [TS]

00:57:29   put that together earlier but maybe [TS]

00:57:32   that's just because i'm reading reading [TS]

00:57:33   a book and I understand how books work [TS]

00:57:35   right well they're under the impression [TS]

00:57:37   that there's some sort of resolution me [TS]

00:57:39   a lot of this book involves them not [TS]

00:57:41   knowing the rules and trying to figure [TS]

00:57:43   out it is this a competition when does [TS]

00:57:46   it happen is you know but it ends up [TS]

00:57:49   being son of a collaboration and yeah [TS]

00:57:51   skirting around its any in a beautiful [TS]

00:57:54   way out you know sort of collaborating [TS]

00:57:56   on these wonders [TS]

00:57:57   ya know I i will say I really dug it a [TS]

00:58:01   book i liked it i did like the like the [TS]

00:58:03   hint that mr. aah [TS]

00:58:06   she is Merlin right like that sort of [TS]

00:58:08   yeah i also took that away at the end [TS]

00:58:10   there and yeah that was funny well it's [TS]

00:58:12   also mr. a and doing this a long time he [TS]

00:58:14   becomes less less and less offensive as [TS]

00:58:17   he gets more and more engaged in what's [TS]

00:58:19   going on so so prosper becomes a dick [TS]

00:58:22   and sort of fades away while mr. H [TS]

00:58:24   becomes increasingly human and finally [TS]

00:58:26   as like almost too much sympathy for it [TS]

00:58:28   it's a little unconvincing how much [TS]

00:58:30   sympathy he develops i would say it's [TS]

00:58:32   the only false know it's very very [TS]

00:58:33   slight but i like the character I like [TS]

00:58:35   that last conversation with him and we [TS]

00:58:37   guess it's a good it's a lovely little [TS]

00:58:39   scene there and he's still kind of a [TS]

00:58:41   jerk but you get the impression that [TS]

00:58:42   he's just he's become so disillusioned [TS]

00:58:44   no pun intended with the entire yeah you [TS]

00:58:47   know the entire history of magic yeah [TS]

00:58:49   I've been doing this looking for [TS]

00:58:50   something new it's yeah [TS]

00:58:51   mmhmm yeah it's great so everybody it [TS]

00:58:54   sounds like everybody has very positive [TS]

00:58:56   things to say [TS]

00:58:57   my-my thing about night circus is that i [TS]

00:59:00   would buy that and add it to my physical [TS]

00:59:02   book collection which is a phrase that I [TS]

00:59:05   do not give too many books nowadays [TS]

00:59:06   especially those workbooks so so I it's [TS]

00:59:11   funny that you should say that I have a [TS]

00:59:13   very limited number of things that i [TS]

00:59:15   recommend my wife is a librarian she [TS]

00:59:17   read lots of books shirts shoes and the [TS]

00:59:19   Children's Library Association reads a [TS]

00:59:21   lot of kids books so she can recommend [TS]

00:59:22   them [TS]

00:59:23   she has a limited willingness to go [TS]

00:59:26   along with crazy books that i recommend [TS]

00:59:27   so I try to I try to recommend her [TS]

00:59:29   really good stuff and and i absolutely [TS]

00:59:32   and unabashedly recommended this book [TS]

00:59:34   and said you got to read this book and [TS]

00:59:36   and and do it now and that so that's my [TS]

00:59:38   equivalent of your in your endorsement [TS]

00:59:40   if I might actually buy this book and [TS]

00:59:41   put it on the Shelf like I i actually [TS]

00:59:44   went to trouble my wife and say no this [TS]

00:59:47   one but of all these crazy books I read [TS]

00:59:49   you got to read this one I've been [TS]

00:59:51   telling everyone they should go and buy [TS]

00:59:52   and read this book because it's the most [TS]

00:59:54   I think it's one of the most beautiful [TS]

00:59:54   books i read in the last several years [TS]

00:59:57   wow it's very approach it's approachable [TS]

00:59:59   it's painless [TS]

00:59:59   it's painless [TS]

01:00:00   but it's in it's cuz you know he's got [TS]

01:00:01   my chicken it's like it's not over yet [TS]

01:00:03   is it requires you buy into a universe [TS]

01:00:05   dragon-like you just you can read here [TS]

01:00:07   be dragons yeah you can read it and [TS]

01:00:09   enjoy it without having to you know [TS]

01:00:11   learn foreign languages that are made up [TS]

01:00:13   by the author right for instance Scott I [TS]

01:00:15   thought it was i do agree i recommended [TS]

01:00:18   to my wife that she read it and uh huh [TS]

01:00:21   last night she was very tired so at ten [TS]

01:00:22   o'clock i said okay you should go to bed [TS]

01:00:24   i'm not tired so i will stay awake and [TS]

01:00:27   so she took her kindle into the bedroom [TS]

01:00:29   and lay down and an hour and a half [TS]

01:00:32   later I want past bedroom and the light [TS]

01:00:34   was on and she was reaching the night [TS]

01:00:36   circus and I said I thought you were [TS]

01:00:39   going to sleep and she was like oh but i [TS]

01:00:40   only have seven percent left so the book [TS]

01:00:47   at this reminded me of more than any [TS]

01:00:48   other we with the little time that we've [TS]

01:00:51   got left [TS]

01:00:52   I thought we talked about other badgett [TS]

01:00:54   kind of things we want to bring up and I [TS]

01:00:56   want to bring up Jonathan strange Mr [TS]

01:00:57   Norrell which I think somebody mentioned [TS]

01:00:59   earlier by susanna Clark which is from [TS]

01:01:02   2004 also a period in England you know [TS]

01:01:07   19th century kind of story [TS]

01:01:10   it's it's stylistically like that to you [TS]

01:01:15   know very Charles Dickens or or or I [TS]

01:01:17   guess austin and and I love that book [TS]

01:01:22   its enormous ism looking [TS]

01:01:24   yeah it might be difficult for some [TS]

01:01:25   people to get into because of the [TS]

01:01:27   stylistic choices but i think it's a [TS]

01:01:29   fantastic book [TS]

01:01:30   yeah it's got a little bit it's a little [TS]

01:01:32   like The Magicians to in a sense that [TS]

01:01:34   there's a scary like it was like a fairy [TS]

01:01:35   realm that they go into but also [TS]

01:01:39   everybody in your game a little bit [TS]

01:01:42   it's like it's basically like a history [TS]

01:01:43   book of things that never happened [TS]

01:01:45   yelling but it's also got strange whimsy [TS]

01:01:48   and it like the fact dollar there are [TS]

01:01:49   magicians but they're not actually [TS]

01:01:51   majority just suddenly ragic historians [TS]

01:01:54   how would anyone ever do magic well as [TS]

01:01:58   if there's a way there's a weird sort of [TS]

01:02:00   like there's a weird sort of different [TS]

01:02:02   drugs at the foot know what was there a [TS]

01:02:05   lot of footnotes but there's a narrator [TS]

01:02:06   right there is a narrator who is not any [TS]

01:02:08   of the characters know and who only [TS]

01:02:10   occasionally just pops up and said yeah [TS]

01:02:13   I read [TS]

01:02:13   splits or whatever in this book and [TS]

01:02:14   you're like who is this huh [TS]

01:02:17   but like in kind of it kind of a [TS]

01:02:18   delightful way that never really i mean [TS]

01:02:20   it's never really explained or [TS]

01:02:22   acknowledge I thought it was one of the [TS]

01:02:24   guys I said that actually is one of the [TS]

01:02:25   characters in the book is the narrator [TS]

01:02:27   Holly I all again i read it like like [TS]

01:02:29   Scott I don't know at all really long [TS]

01:02:31   time ago but I just I like that it's not [TS]

01:02:32   it is it seems kind of separate and [TS]

01:02:35   ancillary well like the footnotes yeah [TS]

01:02:37   this is one of those you know a thousand [TS]

01:02:39   page novel that I put out put a word in [TS]

01:02:42   for a shorter novel the i recently read [TS]

01:02:44   which I know scott also read I which is [TS]

01:02:47   my kohls control point which is a [TS]

01:02:51   interesting sort of modern urban fantasy [TS]

01:02:54   you might classify classified as but it [TS]

01:02:56   a lot of it is sort of military fantasy [TS]

01:02:58   because it basically involves a world [TS]

01:03:00   where people manifest magical powers and [TS]

01:03:03   the government sort of has put a [TS]

01:03:04   lockdown on this and so few manifest in [TS]

01:03:07   one of these prohibited schools of magic [TS]

01:03:08   you're essentially you know basically [TS]

01:03:11   imprisoned by the army and so the the [TS]

01:03:14   main character who is himself to sort of [TS]

01:03:15   a normal run-of-the-mill army soldier [TS]

01:03:17   manifest in one of these schools and has [TS]

01:03:20   to decide whether he's going to [TS]

01:03:21   basically go on the run from everything [TS]

01:03:22   that he used to know and a surprisingly [TS]

01:03:26   good book i had the pleasure of meeting [TS]

01:03:27   Mike a conference here to put in my [TS]

01:03:30   Glenn moment and he's a super nice guy [TS]

01:03:33   and a really really interesting fellow [TS]

01:03:36   who's currently living in a terrible [TS]

01:03:37   apartment so that he can eke out a [TS]

01:03:39   living as a writer but he's also way [TS]

01:03:40   he's a military guy and so he has you [TS]

01:03:43   know he writes this from an [TS]

01:03:45   authoritative perspective but it's in [TS]

01:03:46   surprisingly engaging and finance so i [TS]

01:03:49   would definitely recommend it so I I saw [TS]

01:03:52   something about this book and and but [TS]

01:03:54   the thing that's weird about it is it's [TS]

01:03:56   called channel control yeah well they [TS]

01:03:59   call ended up as a it's definitely a [TS]

01:04:01   series it's just the way the way it's [TS]

01:04:03   marketed in the way they invented it [TS]

01:04:04   feels like a video game spin-off or [TS]

01:04:07   something which is what I was like it [TS]

01:04:08   was it feels like a franchise type thing [TS]

01:04:10   and it's and I think that's unfortunate [TS]

01:04:12   in fact I was just looking at the he [TS]

01:04:14   just put up on Twitter now and so they [TS]

01:04:16   just put it by the British the UK cover [TS]

01:04:19   for the book which i think is immensely [TS]

01:04:21   better than the Americans probably would [TS]

01:04:23   look and we didn't say it was supposed [TS]

01:04:25   to have another day because it [TS]

01:04:26   I made him change whether i said you [TS]

01:04:28   know i was talking to Dan on twitter [TS]

01:04:29   about this and I said yeah the book is [TS]

01:04:30   much better than the cover and title [TS]

01:04:32   would you lead you to believe and the [TS]

01:04:35   author said yeah the type that wasn't [TS]

01:04:36   supposed to be the title is supposed to [TS]

01:04:37   be a oh my goodness related some ladies [TS]

01:04:40   was the name that he wanted to Layton [TS]

01:04:42   right and instead it's generally not a [TS]

01:04:43   waffle constraint right so I mean [TS]

01:04:46   they're clearly selling to a particular [TS]

01:04:47   audience i think is the issue but i also [TS]

01:04:50   think that the British the British cover [TS]

01:04:51   looks a lot more serious and I think [TS]

01:04:53   they drop drop the shadow ops part for [TS]

01:04:55   that it's just called control point I'm [TS]

01:04:57   which I still think is even better title [TS]

01:04:59   than shadow puppets control point but he [TS]

01:05:01   your regardless of the cover and the and [TS]

01:05:03   the and the marketing I i think it's a [TS]

01:05:05   worthwhile read pretty good [TS]

01:05:07   alright any other magical uh books that [TS]

01:05:10   you want to bring up with our remaining [TS]

01:05:12   time I don't give a quick shout out to [TS]

01:05:14   Joe Walton in general I just finished [TS]

01:05:17   reading among others a couple of moval [TS]

01:05:19   which was beautiful and very well SH so [TS]

01:05:22   Welsh rate very very adorable [TS]

01:05:25   that's we mentioned it before it's the [TS]

01:05:26   fantasy it's a fantasy book it is about [TS]

01:05:28   magic but it's also a but what it's [TS]

01:05:31   about as science fiction so it's like a [TS]

01:05:32   fantasy book about science fiction and [TS]

01:05:34   there it but there is magic in it and [TS]

01:05:36   she read sci-fi novels and yeah so lots [TS]

01:05:39   of scifi own now modely obsessed with go [TS]

01:05:42   Walton so I watched a an hour-long [TS]

01:05:45   interview with her and the interviewer [TS]

01:05:47   asked her did you watch it through like [TS]

01:05:49   a one-day hockey it wasn't really an [TS]

01:05:51   interview I was just stalking her for an [TS]

01:05:53   hour and she's so the interview after [TS]

01:05:56   all you're gonna write a sequel to among [TS]

01:05:58   others and Joe Walton said I she first [TS]

01:06:02   explain her writing process where she [TS]

01:06:04   gets contracted to write a book she [TS]

01:06:06   starts writing it and she gets bored [TS]

01:06:07   with it write another book and says [TS]

01:06:08   here's the book I wrote not the one you [TS]

01:06:10   contract before which i think is great i [TS]

01:06:13   think also not uncommon for many credits [TS]

01:06:16   so she said what i could write a sequel [TS]

01:06:18   to it but the only story I want to tell [TS]

01:06:19   is about when the main character ends up [TS]

01:06:23   on the moon and that's a 35 years from [TS]

01:06:26   now and in order to write that book i [TS]

01:06:27   would have to create all the science [TS]

01:06:30   fiction novels that she read over those [TS]

01:06:31   35 years so I'm just not going to do it [TS]

01:06:34   alright well i have had a magical time [TS]

01:06:36   discussing this with all of you as [TS]

01:06:39   podcasts [TS]

01:06:40   yeah yeah no that wasn't good so so to [TS]

01:06:43   wrap up the magicians by lev grossman [TS]

01:06:45   kinda got some interesting things in it [TS]

01:06:48   but sounds like that the consensus is [TS]

01:06:51   pretty flawed and problematic [TS]

01:06:54   yeah yeah yeahs submissions it has [TS]

01:06:57   issued a wheel the Night Circus by Erin [TS]

01:07:02   Morgenstern I everybody seems to love it [TS]

01:07:06   up it isn't going on my shelf once i [TS]

01:07:08   have shelves to put things apart right [TS]

01:07:11   bad as a ringing endorsement and just [TS]

01:07:14   the other stuff among others Jonathan [TS]

01:07:15   strange and mr. Durrell and shadow ops [TS]

01:07:18   contratto ops control point [TS]

01:07:21   alright so we're going to close up the [TS]

01:07:23   the incomparable club for now I don't [TS]

01:07:27   know what our next book selection is [TS]

01:07:29   going to be although the hugo nominees [TS]

01:07:31   should be coming out shortly [TS]

01:07:33   they're not out as you listen to this [TS]

01:07:35   podcast so perhaps we will target some [TS]

01:07:38   of those next I went so well last year [TS]

01:07:40   that will do it yeah well you know maybe [TS]

01:07:43   that that's equal to feed dominated by [TS]

01:07:45   God it can be anything worse than I will [TS]

01:07:49   be there higher from this podcast if [TS]

01:07:51   thats nomination ah so I've Jason I'm [TS]

01:07:54   I'll step up all read them all I [TS]

01:07:56   something to read except every feedlot [TS]

01:07:57   yeah well you were your smartermail [TS]

01:07:59   reading you will be dilated are all [TS]

01:08:01   asterisk at hand [TS]

01:08:03   it's all acceptable but so so if you're [TS]

01:08:08   a a an incomparable book club devote a [TS]

01:08:11   what I would say is watch our Twitter [TS]

01:08:13   feed or sign up for our Goodreads group [TS]

01:08:16   and we will notify you through those [TS]

01:08:19   mechanisms about what our next book club [TS]

01:08:23   selection will be yes and it in the in [TS]

01:08:26   the meantime read a Jonathan strange mr. [TS]

01:08:29   Durrell or shadow ops control point or [TS]

01:08:33   among up you can get Jonathan strange [TS]

01:08:34   for three bucks [TS]

01:08:35   look at that and it's like a thousand [TS]

01:08:37   patients the because your page of that [TS]

01:08:40   deal is midnight blowing unbelievable [TS]

01:08:44   but I'm tapping amazon now i'm topping [TS]

01:08:46   amazon right now we are where we sell [TS]

01:08:50   weapons [TS]

01:08:50   some copies of Jonathan strange & Mr [TS]

01:08:52   Norrell race true what does it take me [TS]

01:08:54   to get you into this novel Dan because [TS]

01:08:56   what are you gonna take you to throw in [TS]

01:08:59   a spare tire mileage level your test [TS]

01:09:02   drive [TS]

01:09:03   throw in some plots that's what huh oh [TS]

01:09:06   there we go [TS]

01:09:06   one click for me i'm done the test drive [TS]

01:09:10   is the sample the kindle sample [TS]

01:09:11   literally wrote some plots extra and [TS]

01:09:17   some formats right given NY minimized [TS]

01:09:19   and how about some footnotes [TS]

01:09:20   oh all the footnotes in Jonathan strange [TS]

01:09:24   mr. oh come from if you have been like [TS]

01:09:27   if she knows that would draw you really [TS]

01:09:30   drive you a little bit nuts [TS]

01:09:31   yeah do we fade slowly after a fortune [TS]

01:09:34   without realizing it [TS]

01:09:35   no no I'm I'm I'm position to say [TS]

01:09:37   goodbye actually so until then whenever [TS]

01:09:41   that time is when we reconvene the [TS]

01:09:43   incomparable club i would like to thank [TS]

01:09:44   my book club participants for again a [TS]

01:09:47   delightful and magical time [TS]

01:09:49   serenity called well thank you very much [TS]

01:09:51   for joining us from your floating carpet [TS]

01:09:53   high above Los Angeles where you are [TS]

01:09:56   currently living with your magical cat [TS]

01:09:58   thank you and hopefully i will magically [TS]

01:10:01   be in boston the next time we have a [TS]

01:10:02   book club podcast that's not use magic [TS]

01:10:05   because that would be a lot faster than [TS]

01:10:06   driving [TS]

01:10:07   yes that's how i'm getting there in two [TS]

01:10:09   days but excellent [TS]

01:10:11   I Glenn fleischmann from his uh his [TS]

01:10:14   bunker in Seattle but right in the back [TS]

01:10:17   there's a door that goes to fillory [TS]

01:10:18   thank you for being here thank you for a [TS]

01:10:21   thousand feet blue the surface of the [TS]

01:10:23   earth I thank you for not letting me in [TS]

01:10:24   this episode watch out for the love of [TS]

01:10:26   men knew Dan more'n i insert magic thing [TS]

01:10:31   here [TS]

01:10:31   thanks for being my you always always [TS]

01:10:33   run out inspiration when it gets to me [TS]

01:10:35   just really if I the door to fillory and [TS]

01:10:38   my in the back of my room I would break [TS]

01:10:40   it over the Beast would come and destroy [TS]

01:10:43   your pens so that's the bricks or flow i [TS]

01:10:45   see a magic trick supply [TS]

01:10:48   yeah why would you use non-magic bricks [TS]

01:10:51   oh why would you get a job and earn [TS]

01:10:54   money when you can just make all your [TS]

01:10:55   money with magic breaks and Scott [TS]

01:10:58   McNulty I thank you for being here [TS]

01:11:01   although you had pharma too much disk [TS]

01:11:03   action and not enough plot that is often [TS]

01:11:06   commenters on amazon.com agree with you [TS]

01:11:09   yes also you had many show air-quote [TS]

01:11:13   jogo stations and I couldn't and there [TS]

01:11:16   was a lot of silence for me I provide [TS]

01:11:17   the love silence so yes thank you thank [TS]

01:11:21   you for providing both your silence and [TS]

01:11:22   your insight about the parts of the [TS]

01:11:24   books that you could remember you know I [TS]

01:11:26   read a lot of things people i know i [TS]

01:11:29   think i can't remember them all [TS]

01:11:31   you wouldn't want to that's why your [TS]

01:11:34   book amnesia save you [TS]

01:11:35   you're saying like it perhaps have a [TS]

01:11:36   curse of some kind of when i went to [TS]

01:11:38   fillory be magic that yes magic real [TS]

01:11:42   magic magic is to blame for everything [TS]

01:11:45   this is scott is that Scott is actually [TS]

01:11:48   an enchanted book to type but I'm an [TS]

01:11:51   enchanted e-reader that's who know your [TS]

01:11:55   initiated book but you've been you're [TS]

01:11:57   being punished [TS]

01:11:59   Oh captured on me we're humans trapped [TS]

01:12:01   in a body that even exactly that is it [TS]

01:12:02   alright closing up the uncomfortable [TS]

01:12:05   club then I'm Jason smell your host [TS]

01:12:07   until next time on the income [TS]

01:12:09   well thanks for listening [TS]

01:12:12   [Music] [TS]

01:12:18   this is probably the first new book in a [TS]

01:12:20   while that I would consider actually [TS]

01:12:22   buying physically and putting it on my [TS]

01:12:24   shelf of which is very limited right now [TS]

01:12:27   since yeah basically homeless person [TS]

01:12:30   basically a homeless and living out of [TS]

01:12:33   boxes we prefer the term hobo you know [TS]

01:12:37   you know glad it's it's funny you should [TS]

01:12:39   mention moby dick because was a Herman [TS]

01:12:41   Melville's great-granddaughter was my [TS]

01:12:44   English should know i'm just gonna know [TS]

01:12:50   you're out where you got allowed by [TS]

01:12:51   listen listen there's no puedo go ahead [TS]

01:12:54   moby dick you say except for her comma [TS]

01:12:57   splices that drives me not such a loser [TS]

01:12:59   for what misplaces she's continually [TS]

01:13:02   gluing to set in dialogues will [TS]

01:13:04   continually grew two sentences together [TS]

01:13:05   with a comma [TS]

01:13:07   what's the reasoning hummus places [TS]

01:13:08   misplaces yeah I don't know what that is [TS]

01:13:11   this officer talking almost like the [TS]

01:13:14   size you're a writer kinda shit no [TS]

01:13:16   splices it's when it's when you insert a [TS]

01:13:18   comma when you should have a scenario [TS]

01:13:21   you're seeing talking about like baba [TS]

01:13:22   ghanoush uses from recycling is famous [TS]

01:13:25   places where there is actually that's [TS]

01:13:27   one of the lens travel presents at the [TS]

01:13:29   isn't even on this place and not because [TS]

01:13:33   it is black comedies white on this it's [TS]

01:13:36   not appealing [TS]