The Incomparable

00:00:07 ◼   ► the incomparable podcast number 92 may [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► welcome back everybody to the [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► incomparable podcast I'm Jason smell [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► your host and on this edition of the [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► incomparable we're going to be talking [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► about the summer blockbuster spectacular [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► written and directed by tvs joss whedon [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► it's the Avengers wildly popular movie [TS]

00:00:34 ◼   ► rapidly served ready to surpass every [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► other movie ever made by anybody except [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► James Cameron is the greatest grossing [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► movie of all time or something like that [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► marvel's culmination of years of [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► plotting and planning that began with [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► the little scene that happened at the [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► end of the credits of iron man the [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► avengers big hit the summer to kick off [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► the summer movie season here to discuss [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► the matter are my guess a fine panel one [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► of the finest ever assembled in fact [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► they're like my own little Avengers if I [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► were Nick Fury so who would be who [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► that's the question that I have for [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► myself i'd like to introduce my very own [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► Hawkeye and more in hide and I'll man i [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► was really rooting for Hawkeye i'm [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► pretty pretty sight [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► I mean he doesn't you know now's your [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► time but I appreciate it thanks Jason [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► good to be here [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► I'm glad to have you here also joining [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► me is my own captain america himself ben [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► boychuk hi Ben [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► yeah kinda wanted to be iron man but [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► hello what you actually were a big fan [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► of iron man huge yeah alright you can be [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► armed and then how about that [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► goody it could be our man owed and you [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► could have an iron man 2i justify just [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► argued for it [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► pretty much yeah yeah now then wanted it [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► i did what i would not deprive him of [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► that joy now please welcome the Norse [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► god of thunder John siracusa you know [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► Jason I think of you I think of Nick [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► Fury so this is such such a perfect [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► match samuel l jackson Jason smells just [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► like peanut butter and jelly the eye [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► patch [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► yeah it i would even John the Hulk [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► because sometimes he gets really angry [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► about things but all the secret dan is [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► I'm always angry [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► thank you John thank you I soft-serve [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► that one to you I now [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► we work as a team maybe I should be [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► what's-her-name and like without Hawkeye [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► with scarlett johansson are ya i can be [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► Scarlett Johansson the dance Hawkeye ok [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► good times and now he was a [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► mild-mannered scientists before he was [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► bombarded with gamma radiation don't [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► make him angry you wouldn't like him [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► when he's angry [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► it's an eco hi Andy well actually if dan [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► was going to be Hawkeye can I be Charles [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► on a super in chester the third know you [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► got the boss'll accent I can talk about [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► my sister Maria you can have a little [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► hole you can only be Maxwell cute clear [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► a good word rash podcast is a different [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► night of magic episode [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► no yes that's next next thursday we have [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► to match the aftermath episode so anyway [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► we are talking about the adventures a [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► joss whedon a creator of my favorite TV [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► show of all time buffy the vampire [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► slayer' and a previously had only [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► directed one movie which was a serenity [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► the follow-on to the Firefly TV series [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► which is actually had a fine film in its [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► own right but and Marvel gave him the [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► keys and basically said we have been [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► setting up this ridiculous film that's [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► going to include a billion different [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► characters and four years now and we [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► need somebody to actually make it not [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► stink and they brought in joss whedon to [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► do that and I think the tenor of the [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► reviews that I read when the movie came [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► out seem to be very much along the lines [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► of critics saying they dreaded seeing [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► this movie figuring that it would be a [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► soulless culmination of corporate [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► synergy and that they were pleasantly [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► surprised that it was funny and that it [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► you know it managed to focus on the [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► characters and not just become [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► spider-man 3 basically to pick one [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► example or one of the latter-day pre [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► Christopher Nolan Batman movies that's [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► just a complete mess in a disaster like [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► Arnold Schwarzenegger is mr. freeze [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► boy that movie was really bad chill out [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► okay so that was really that in [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► spider-man 3 or like the pinnacle of you [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► know more villains or heroes just stick [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► everything in there and I'm sure I'm [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► sure it'll be good and they and they're [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► always terrible and the Avengers i think [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► from the outside it seemed like that was [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► a natural guess if you had to guess what [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► was going to come of this movie was [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► going to be that was a mess and the [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► reason it exists is because the people [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► in [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► our whole you know planning said we will [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► make a lot of money let us let's make [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► this movie and and so a lot of the [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► reviews seem to be it has it's much [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► better than it has any right to be [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► which I think really brings me to to my [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► first question knowing that andy has [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► seen it and didn't really like it [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► um you know it is is it a good movie [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► fundamentally or is the reaction that [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► people have had especially the critics [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► have had to the Avengers more that it's [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► not a it's not the disaster that it [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► really could have been because that's [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► not a ringing endorsement right I I to [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► argue that it's actually a pretty good [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► movie and well I think a lot of the [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► criticisms that have been level that it [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► had been level at the plot I I think [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► that's actually the least important [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► thing here because I think no matter [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► what the plot i think no matter what [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► kind of plot we're going to do it was [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► gonna be bad like we're talking [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► superhero movies here right [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► superhero movie plots are you know not [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► really usually the highest caliber a and [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► to be fair superhero comic plots are not [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► really the highest calendar right like [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► however right like there's clearly very [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► little respect for them otherwise they [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► wouldn't just retcon them every time [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► they felt like it was convenient [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► so you know in that sense I think it you [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► know the the movie delivered really well [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► on what i was looking forward to which [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► was to say let's take these interesting [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► characters with them in a situation and [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► see how they sort of bounce off each [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► other and you know Joss Whedon's really [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► well-suited to that because he's done a [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► lot of work with ensemble cast before [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► and that was going to be tough with the [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► movie with all these people who would [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► basically carried their own films to [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► varying degrees of success so I think [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► you know it was entertaining and yeah i [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► think the the addition of you know [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► having some humor and some interesting [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► drama and conflict in there i thought it [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► really it worked really well [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► well we didn't you know his his his [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► history everything he's done is really [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► been an ensemble show and one not one [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► way or another and this definitely felt [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► like we were watching a joss whedon TV [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► show series you know season long story [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► arc played out over two-and-a-half hours [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► and he gives everybody there moments and [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► you know in many ways this was a an [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► inspired choice for a writer and [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► director it in in that sense that he he [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► was able to bring some personality and [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► get everybody there moments and make it [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► not seem like a complete mess while also [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► honoring to dance point the [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► ridiculousness of a superhero team-up [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► movie right down very important right [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► down to the part where the superheroes [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► fight each other over a misunderstanding [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► because you've got to have that right [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► always and in this case we get we get [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► Iron Man and Thor especially facing off [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► against each other with some which is [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► perfect because geeks are always about [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► well who would win in the wind [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► that's right but will captain America [TS]

00:07:32 ◼   ► would come in and break it up that's [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► what would happen [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► clearly clearly he's such a killjoy [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► yeah that's Steve Rogers [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► i feel kind of like the people who watch [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► serenity who had no idea what fireflies [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► because i'm not a big comic book guy and [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► I game and I guess I know who these [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► people are right but if you haven't [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► watched you know a short 13 episodes [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► season of television or something to [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► familiarize with you with these [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► characters then the ensemble structure [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► of a movie really hurts the the chances [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► of the movie really landing with the [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► audience in terms of like I was serious [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► movie and I really connect with these [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► characters because you just don't have [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► enough screen time to give to each one [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► of them so Joss is the king of trying to [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► give everyone a little moment but you [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► know the bottom line is it's like a [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► two-and-a-half-hour movie and there's a [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► lot of characters and there's a lot of [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► moving parts and can you really get [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► seven satisfying story arcs plus by the [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► way the overall story arc and you know [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► just this just too many moving parts you [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► don't have time you don't have the [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► screen time to develop these guys so if [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► you if there's a backstory that you buy [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► into or if you've seen all the other [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► movies or whatever then at least you're [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► coming in with something but I saw a [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► couple of the other movies or whatever I [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► but i do i'm not particularly familiar [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► with these characters so all i had to go [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► on was the the stuff that you ride it so [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► it was it was I think I went in [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► expecting it to be a real uphill battle [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► for him to be able to have these many [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► moving pieces in a movie be successful [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► in any way I I came out of it thinking [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► that he did as well as i could imagine [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► he could do to connect to someone like [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► me I and I guess that one coming out of [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► the movie i guess i decided that the [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► thing that really makes me hate a movie [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► is not so much stupid plot in the [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► superhero movie but like bad writing and [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► bad acting and bad choices and so [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► basically if you can if you have ok [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► writing it's not embarrassingly bad and [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► it's clever in some way I'm going to [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► forgive a lot so that's what I came out [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► of this movie I was like Frances it's a [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► silly superhero movie but it didn't like [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► offend me i didn't come out of it saying [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► all that was just terrible and i can't [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► believe i spend my money and I'm like [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► it's mine was fun like and I don't think [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► that's the reaction a lot of people are [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► having and I also imagine maybe if I had [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► seen this as a younger child that would [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► have allowed being excited me more but I [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► came out of it [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► smiling and then immediately for [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► everything about the movie i would watch [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► the 13-episode [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► Joss Whedon's Avengers TV series but it [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► would have been canceled [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► yeah right after after episode 10 I mean [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► they would have in order to Arizona [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► order would have been in 1974 I don't [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► know I've seen all the movies that were [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► in the run-up to the Avengers with the [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► exception of the incredible hulk which [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► was the edward norton and he was [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► replaced by mark ruffalo in the [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► adventures but I i saw the two Iron [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► Man's and/or in captain america and you [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► know I I think comic book familiarity is [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► not as necessary but definitely familiar [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► with those those movies that there's [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► little bits little strands especially [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► from Captain America that very clearly [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► that which Johnson we can I think did an [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► uncredited rewrite of that data that [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► that drop in here i did i did see that [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► 1i didn't feel like because i saw that [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► one and because of the Iron Man's that [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► those those guys I felt like I knew what [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► they were talking about a little bit [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► more i rewatched all of them with my [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► friend and occasional and comfortable [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► panelist Tony similar before like in the [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► months leading up to the Avengers and [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► they actually aside from the fact that [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► you know they recover recast the Hulk [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► they actually hang together not that bad [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► and they just I just saw this today [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► there's a Time Warner that Marvel [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► released there is a timeline which which [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► is great because i love the section of [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► it that's like Nick Fury is big week [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► we're good like apparently like for the [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► movies are happening at the same time [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► yeah [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► Agent Coulson has to hop around to like [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► three different location they do [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► actually weave them together and in the [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► course of those movies which is [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► impressive like there's even a little [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► scene and iron man two at the end where [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► Nick theories debriefing you know Tony [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► Stark and on the tvs in the background [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► they're talking about the Hulk rampaging [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► over the college campus which I totally [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► missed the first time around but it's [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► definitely there [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► it's very little subtle background thing [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► Nick Fury project manager he has he has [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► a Gantt chart that is really ever see [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► all those displays with just wanna just [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► get the holographic display technology [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► on the shield helicarrier is really [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► wasted on Nick Fury iphone i just my [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► favorite too i don't know who made this [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► week but I just laughed so hard at the [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► it's a shame he'll never be able to see [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► his own movie in 3d for nectar it's a [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► fake or is it [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► camera on is on his patch that goes [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► right into his brain i could see in 40 [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► he's that good he's that awesome venue [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► you did you see all the movies on the [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► run up to this [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► yeah every single one of them and I [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► thought it was i I thought the Avengers [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► was it was a was a fine spectacle III is [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► it is it a great film know is pretty [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► good yeah my son loved it [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► I liked it a lot I i wanted to see it [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► again before we before we did this [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► podcast didn't get the chance but I [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► thought you know I i agree with the [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► comment you know if you're if you're you [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► know if you're a preteen or teenage boy [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► you know if this if I were that age now [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► I would be head over heels for this for [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► the Avengers I thought I thought it [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► worked well i mean i thought it was [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► delivered everything that you wanted it [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► was favorite fairly smart about it and [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► you know he had you had your great [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► fights and you had some you had some [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► decent dialogue my only real complaint [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► about it was I thought I thought Hawkeye [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► and BlackWidow were sort of [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► underdeveloped in the Hawkeye in [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► particular was a laser-like are you know [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► he's possessed for most of the Yeah Yeah [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► right it's tough it's tough when you're [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► the two humans in the group full of [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► superheroes right like after the world's [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► best assassins but like it's a little [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► rough but that's okay because the earth [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► is being invaded by aliens who can be [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► taken down by a guy with a bow and arrow [TS]

00:13:37 ◼   ► set and a woman with a common [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► commercially available handgun recover [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► who two handguns Andy come on [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► oh wait a minute wait a minute there [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► were cops there too if only they'd [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► started firing into the air maybe they [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► could end this in about two minutes [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► instead of the 20 minutes it took to [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► defeat the entire alien invasion no skin [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► tight outfits and you're forgetting no [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► skin tight outfits [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► she's a much better shot than those cops [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► she ancient shield can create a [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► Helicarrier of 800 million tons that can [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► hover and 3d holographic technology they [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► cannot develop a zipper that can stay up [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► to the neckline of a female recruit they [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► can they don't want to [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► ah the researchers the zipper that stays [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► open just the right amount that's where [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► the hard for sure you can make a zipper [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► the state totally upwards over the falls [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► down but can you [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► take one that stays in the exact right [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► position that's the secret [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► I think they did a nice job with her in [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► that opening scene with her though I [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► mean I don't know I enjoyed that the [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► scene where she's being interrogated was [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► a very joss whedon scene and then she [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► disappeared for the rest of the movie [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► yeah I mean well that's that again you [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► have to divvy up this time between six [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► different characters so you know [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► everybody got a little bit of time but [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► but there was still another program I've [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► had a big problem with the Black Widow [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► because she had a common malady and [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► action movies she had invulnerable [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► female action hero syndrome where we [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► can't really care a damn about this [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► character because it's impossible to [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► land a punch on her it's impossible for [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► the screenwriter to have her show any [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► amount of vulnerability or who put any [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► challenge before her that she isn't [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► forty percent over qualified to handle [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► all on around anything about ellen [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► ripley is one of the remains is the [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► greatest female action hero action [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► character in movies because she keeps [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► getting the the snot kicked out of her [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► but Kim becoming back and surrounding it [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► she keeps having problems which he then [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► has to solve black widow was melba toast [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► just dry and uninteresting because as [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► you know how long that fight sequence [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► with Hawkeye go did ha Kyle and one [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► single punch [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► was there any sort of action ever taken [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► against her that she had to take the [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► blow or in any way get hurt or or [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► affected that scene where she's like [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► questioning loci that here i'm thinking [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► of his early movie so I still have a lot [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► of faith in it but in this flick that [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► could actually turn out to be pretty [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► good at home and look he's really [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► getting into her head and the great this [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► is where we actually find her to be [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► developed as a real characters know it [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► turns out that she was just playing him [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► all along to get the information that [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► she needed again she's absolutely [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► invulnerable we cannot risk of creating [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► a character who that's female and real [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► at the same time she's terrified when [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► the Hulk appears no i mean that that is [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► she is she is kinda freaked out and and [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► and extremely vulnerable in those scenes [TS]

00:16:17 ◼   ► and we keep cutting nonsensically though [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► I was like that that didn't ring true to [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► me because like out now she's going to [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► be scared but the Hang she's scared of [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► this is the same woman that was totally [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► not scared and for the rest of the movie [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► and much more dangerous situation so [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► he's turning green and my foot is [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► trapped and I'm terrified to make sense [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► to me I assume the reason for that is [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► that there really [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► try to get across the fact that the Hulk [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► is not the hottest air is supposed to be [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► terrifying [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► he can do anything on control movement [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► ok but if it again this is this blaze [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► the incompetents of the screenplay when [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► it the screenplay needs the hope to be [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► an unstoppable uncontrollable killing [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► machine [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► he's on the Helicarrier now he's gonna [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► tear the whole place apart because he [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► has no focus and direction he's just [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► wanting destruction just as the Hulk is [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► defined as in a classical way but the [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► end of the movie we need the Hulk to not [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► to simply say oh I'm gonna start beating [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► the crap out of these colorful humans [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► that are right next to me [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► we need him to actually just attack the [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► aliens and do things that are actually [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► intelligent for the hope to do now [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► that's when the Hulk is not a random our [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► engine of destruction The Hulk is [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► actually controlled somehow by intellect [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► and then what was that thing about the [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► very end after after this whole build-up [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► about how Bruce Banner can just barely [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► key he's training himself to keep the [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► whole control and not let him out [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► turns out that he could have done that [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► anytime he wanted in a very willful [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► fashion and i'm not saying this [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► necessarily makes absolutely no sense in [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► context for the character but this is a [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► clear case of the screenwriter deciding [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► i want that I don't care this is [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► completely consistent with everything [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► we've been telling the audience all [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► along [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► at this point we're running out of [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► screen time we need the whole to do with [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► a screenwriter wants me to do and [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► therefore i'm going to redefine the [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► whole to do whatever I wanted to do so I [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► don't see what I'm not I'm not clear on [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► what you're arguing there because the [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► whole idea is that he's keeping the [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► whole can check and at the end he [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► deploys the whole key has no problem [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► letting the Hulk out his problem is [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► keeping the Hulk in well he has control [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► over in the end the whole threat of the [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► Hulk on the Helicarrier was that it when [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► the when the Hulk got out of committee [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► got out on the Helicarrier did the Hulk [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► say oh wait a minute i'm here among [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► friends I should basically sit here [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► quietly or at least go after this [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► low-key guy that everybody so upset [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► about [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► now he was wanted engine of destruction [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► who almost killed a fellow team member [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► at the end of the movie did he just [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► randomly start punching buildings that [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► he randomly attack other members of the [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► Avengers no he only went after the [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► aliens and also is the the scenes were [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► really shot as though the Hulk at focus [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► and the photo hope the whole kind of [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► purpose towards one target and not the [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► there you can simply define him as a [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► random engine of destruction when you [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► need another threat on the Helicarrier [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► and then simply redefined him when you [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► just needed someone is going to solve [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► this again these incredibly intimidating [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► aliens who can be shot by a 9-millimeter [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► gun and brought completely down about [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► that was his character arc but the ark [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► was made up of two points services you [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► ended up with with with note with no [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► line in between [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► hey wait he had a nice pep talk he had a [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► nice pep talk from that janitor that's [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► on crashed into a building [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► yeah like it felt like there was seven [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► scenes involving the hook that were [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► omitted from the movie and like I see [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► the character arc they would have liked [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► to have drama the just I guess there [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► just wasn't time to put in so you gotta [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► establish one thing up front and then at [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► the end the situation resolved then [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► there's no middle process by which she [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► resolved the situation like you i can [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► fill in the blanks myself by saying like [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► okay [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► when the hell comes upon him in a rage [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► he can't control it because it's like an [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► extension of whatever he was feeling at [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► the time you became the Hulk but if you [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► purposely becomes the Hulk the Hulk [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► inherits that purpose and like I can [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► manufacture stuff but the point that [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► wasn't in the movie was that all thats [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► all in my head I i have to have to admit [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► i was listening and trying to speak but [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► for the first 10 or 15 minutes but now [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► all I was hearing was you know it wasn't [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► as crappy everyone thought it was going [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► to be really crappy it was only mediocre [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► i didn't i didn't totally hate it I did [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► I thought I thought that before for a [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► comic book movie where we don't expect a [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► good plot if you don't want if you don't [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► think I movie needs a plot you know it's [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► actually you can actually get it down [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► your throat okay and this it's it's like [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► going to a seafood restaurant thing you [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► know what two dollar ninety-nine cent [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► baked lamb platter [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► I really thought I'd be puking my guts [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► out for three days after instead it was [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► a bland tasteless nutritionist meal that [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► i actually was able to eat my body [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► simple process [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► well did you see the spider man did you [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► see the spider-man trailer though [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► speaking of that I think right you know [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► let's compare that to how the movie that [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► you imagine the new spider-man will be [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► compared to the Avengers like you know [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► it is kind of like it is damning with [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► faint praise is to say that it wasn't [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► you know that we didn't have a grand [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► vacations anyone so terrible but I think [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► expectations do affect how much you [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► enjoy a movie not so much the how good [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► the movie actually is but it affects how [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► much you in [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► enjoy it so if you go in if you go in [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► expecting dumb entertainment and you get [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► dumb entertainment you be coming out [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► feeling satisfied it doesn't change the [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► quality of the movie like certainly if [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► you asked everyone on this panel make [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► your list of your top 500 movies the [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► avengers probably wouldn't be on it [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► right but it really does depend on how [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► you go in and like for example the [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► spider-man movie I don't think there's [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► any way I could watch that and not come [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► out being angry about it just looks [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► terrible to me [TS]

00:21:26 ◼   ► yeah everyone's this one I managed to go [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► in and say I don't expect much what I [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► got was a few chuckles got to see some [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► things blow up and then I left no no [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► this is the starting line for the movie [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► begins when the opening credits start [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► with the first frame of actual movie [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► whatever you expected and I i do agree [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► that you go in with certain expectations [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► i gotta admit that my expectations for [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► the first christopher nolan batman movie [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► i love Christopher Nolan I expected it [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► to be a certain minimal level of good i [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► wasn't expecting it to be fantastic but [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► by frame one of that movie that movie [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► was on its own it's my responsibility as [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► a credible film viewer to simply stop [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► thinking about what i expected it to be [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► and start seeing it as what it actually [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► was [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► I was incredible film critics sure but [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► as a viewer no fewer as of you you don't [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► you don't have a readout every I don't [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► really think that you can make it [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► anybody can make a dress sensible [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► argument about what they liked her [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► didn't like about the movie based on [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► what they thought the movie was going to [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► be the filmmakers not responsible for [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► what you thought was going to be their [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► only responsible for what had what they [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► actually put on the screen that's the [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► only thing that I'm judging joss whedon [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► on what was actually on the screen was [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► actually on the screen was again it [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► wasn't an awful movie it was just your [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► basic transformers two style on solano [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► crashing oh I think you need to watch [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► transformers two again not but there was [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► no plot no characterization just [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► flashing lights that lasted for two and [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► a half hours [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► oh i don't iike real artist did not make [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► me even smile once i was checking my was [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► checking my watch for the last 40 [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► minutes of this movie it was that I was [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► honestly surprised I wasn't already home [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► I mean saying that there's no character [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► development in the Avengers is I think I [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► think overstating the case massively [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► because okay you know what would happen [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► with this captain america think about [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► Black Widow I mean if you what does what [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► does Hawkeye want and not to be in this [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► movie Hawkeye was the worst part of the [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► moment [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► to be possessed i'm saying i don't think [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► we need to necessarily know what the [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► every single character thinks about [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► every other character again it's a [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► two-and-a-half-hour movie with seven men [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► you know characters you can basically [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► hold their own exactly you you have so [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► much time to develop these things you [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► can develop these things not just within [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► and not with an entire scene you can [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► develop these these relationship with [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► one look okay there's just no real [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► conflict the the nose I'm sorry no [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► serious conflict between these people [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► other than ok your captain america [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► you're the old guy I'm iron man I'm the [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► new guy rear ever go wait now we got a [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► common enemy now let's go find the [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► common enemy ever ver I I think you're [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► being completely unfair and I lighting [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► is the Transformers i think is actually [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► I was going to say I i think our I think [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► the reason that this movie has been [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► popular and has resonated with audiences [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► and that that it it maintained so much [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► of its box office between the first and [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► second week is that our blockbuster [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► expectations and yeah and i will use [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► that word expectations are so low that [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► so many of these movies are so terrible [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► and transformers is a great example that [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► makes a lot of money but you know having [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► seen a couple of those movies where they [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► are they are so bad they have no [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► redeeming value and on it on such [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► another level of terribleness you know I [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► this is not a perfect movie also i'm [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► very confused why you are ripping into [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► this movie to a degree and yet you said [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► you gave it like a b-minus like a so is [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► it is it a dr is it a be right because [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► in my mind i agree with you that this is [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► a be kind of movie it is not a fantastic [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► movie but the dialogue is funny i think [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► there is interesting character [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► interaction i think the whole interplay [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► between Tony Stark and and banner is a [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► really interesting that he tested me off [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► he kind of offers from a job and they [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► drive off at the end there's some [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► interest he's the only one Tony Stark is [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► the only one who trusts that banner is [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► actually going to come back and not run [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► away it and that's not a huge story arc [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► but there are little bits that that pull [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► you through those characters it you know [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► and I found it that the action was [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► following below in a way that the [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► Transformers movies are our i would say [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► incompetently directed where you can't [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► you actually don't even know where you [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► are what you're seeing and although the [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► plot is a silly plot in many ways I just [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► I for me this movie succeeds a [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► in so many different ways given the [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► given the Givens of this film which is [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► you've gotta stuff seven you know seven [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► superheroes in it and and you have no [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► choice in the matter [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► and I realized that that's knowing that [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► there's a you know Marvel cabal but [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► saying just Whedon yeah you know [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► here here's your bag of stuff make a [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► movie out of this you know we don't care [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► what you do but but this is all you get [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► and so you know so i think the [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► Transformers comparison is really unfair [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► i think well you can say that this movie [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► isn't it isn't far from perfect without [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► saying that it is a a a soulless by [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► metal part III found the weak part of [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► the with the tie I without intending to [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► a my dark right at that one hole in your [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► armor that went right to your heart and [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► I apologize for that the low blow LOL [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► blow transformers I I stand by that but [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► I apologize for framing writer named but [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► there's your here's why I said it was a [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► b-minus movie and this is this is [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► something that I actually liked about [TS]

00:26:28 ◼   ► the movie I can easily imagine i imagine [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► iron man 3 I imagine captain america too [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► i imagine Thor to imagine an origin [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► movie for Black Widow and Hawkeye and [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► and I imagine the next attempt at Marvel [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► to reboot and create a whole franchise [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► and I think iron man 3 get lucky okay [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► we'll get back look into expectations [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► here just only as a as a mathematical [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► thing i'm expecting iron man 3 to have [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► 26 minutes of good stuff in it I'm [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► expecting captain america to have maybe [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► 18 minutes with a good stuff in it and [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► so on and so on and so on and I feel so [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► this is two-and-a-half this like sort of [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► two-and-a-half-hour montage of only the [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► good parts of all these five movies that [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► are probably going to get made but [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► you're probably not to be terribly [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► interested in seeing and also when I [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► spend my my 11 bucks or that my case [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► eight bucks for matinee together and I [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► it's okay to be entertained by flashing [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► lights good smell good smashy-smashy [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► really great action sequences and there [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► are some really fantastic action [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► sequences here and I think that does [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► deliver on that on that way I think that [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► Roger Ebert really delivered the money [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► quote by saying that is exactly the [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► superhero movie that superhero fans want [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► it is not the superhero movie that that [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► superhero fan [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► just deserve so decent enough that is [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► not good enough though is negative and [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► it's good enough for be- if you're about [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► it if and I'm not responsible for what [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► other people think about this movie if [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► you--if anyway if everybody else thought [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► that was a really good solid effort [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► that's fine i'm not challenging that I'm [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► only stating my own personal opinion my [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► fundamental problems with it are that I [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► really do see basic story structure [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► flaws with it because you start off with [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► a problem of every single really great [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► action movie you're always moving [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► towards one goal there could be false [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► Dunn's towards that goal [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► I mean Ellen Ripley is her goal is to [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► get herself and Newt off of that off of [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► the planet into safety and you think [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► that ok good she's gonna make it before [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► the self-destruct sequence ends all she [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► has to do is cross over here and get the [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► elevator [TS]

00:28:29 ◼   ► holy crap she's in the alien Queens next [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► we've got a whole new movie now but but [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► the goal is still the same goal with [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► this one [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► oh my god we got it low key is this [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► really incredible badass villain at [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► least in the first third of the movie we [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► gotta stop him from opening this portal [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► i'll bring this massive invasion flee [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► away he we could we screwed up okay [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► we've got to fight off these massive [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► invasion [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► oh wait no we have to we have to we have [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► to stop this nuclear missile that [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► somehow been fired for some reason from [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► hitting midtown Manhattan you can't keep [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► changing the end this definition of your [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► movie and they've done it three times [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► the other thing is that there's the [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► entire I got the talk about how [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► wonderful love these action sequences [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► are the whole Helicarrier in peril [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► sequence fantastic start to finish but [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► then after it of course there's that's [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► the at the end of the sequence in any [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► movies like now let's give 10 minutes of [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► exposition scenes let the audience catch [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► their breath so I'm catching my breath I [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► realized that wow that entire scene was [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► absolutely pointless we could cut that [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► entire sequence and so long sequence out [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► of the movie [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► collapse the work begins and ends and [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► cut then been pasted those two ends of [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► the movie together the movie would not [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► be affected there was no reason for that [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► seem to exist except to have this big [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► action sequence in which the Helicarrier [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► is imperil you don't think there's a [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► sequence in there to actually get the [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► people to work together because I [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► thought that was for me the big part of [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► that point was that the you know we had [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► people who are at each other's throats [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► before that and actually found a point [TS]

00:29:53 ◼   ► with [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► aight we need to work together in order [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► to actually get out of this Jam before [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► we all buy it there's no there's already [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► sequence before that and after that does [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► that [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► what annoyed me is that why they are [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► included the the script was not agile [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► enough to really explain what loki was [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► doing aboard the Helicarrier there's [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► something there's some bits of dialogue [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► that indicate that Loki's on the [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► Helicarrier because he got full of [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► himself and full of ego and he didn't [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► realize that he was in danger of being [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► captured [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► there's no other data log that dedicated [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► that no this is part of his plan so that [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► he could be on the Helicarrier [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► influencing events and then there'd be a [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► big barrel the moment that he could [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► incite from inside the Helicarrier at [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► the end i will again in that moment [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► after those moments after the scene i'm [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► thinking there really is no reason for [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► low key to put himself on board the [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► Helicarrier and if i'm confused as to [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► why that whole sequence existed or while [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► okie wound up on board that way why he [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► decided to stick around like that that's [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► got iphone as though i'm a careful and a [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► viewer that that's the fault of the [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► screenplay I'm well I'm willing to stick [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► my neck out and say that no it's not [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► because i wasn't paying attention it was [TS]

00:30:58 ◼   ► because I think that's a flaw in the [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► screenplay and I all I won't go to other [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► things that I think are just basically [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► wrong with the way this movie is [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► structured but it's just such [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► fundamental problems that i think would [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► have been eliminated and the [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► conceptually speaking would've been [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► eliminated and up in a preliminary draft [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► the screenplay where you're looking at [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► that big wall of notecards saying oh [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► great sequence great sequence great [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► sequence for a sequence you have [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► unfortunately this is not necessary we [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► can't really justify how that happens so [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► either have to create that justification [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► or if you remove these scenes [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► that's why I was saying that I felt it [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► was a really great story board but with [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► no story so so John siracusa I'd like to [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► congratulate you you are not the most [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► negative person on the podcast this one [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► is one here let's book is like it [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► because there's only one thing that I [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► really disagree with andy about like [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► everything he said that that's bad about [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► the movies right different things that [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► are bad about the movie that the breath [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► where I part ways with them i think is [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► is the idea that I guess we're doing two [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► different things here i would give this [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► movie a C or a c-minus [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► ah but I would give my experience of [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► watching the movie plus it and I'm [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► separating like how good is this movie [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► in terms of did you make a good movie [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► versus how much that i enjoy when we [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► we've all enjoyed Tara [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► the movies sometimes you can enjoy them [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► because they're terrible and part of my [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► enjoyment of this was because like I'm [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► enjoying the sloppiness the silliness of [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► a put these flaws that he's pointing out [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► of the movie are real like everything he [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► said about why the heck is lucky there [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► and it's confusing and there's lots of [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► flabby part of the end with a flying [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► around with these aliens who we don't [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► care about and it's like it just yet but [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► but my experience of watching movies [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► about getting about with expectations [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► like I'm paying money to be entertained [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► for a short period of time and I'm able [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► to separate how good a movie is it [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► versus how much should I enjoy my night [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► out going to watch this movie you know [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► what I mean I and so everything that he [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► said about the movie i agree without hit [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► here's my my attempt to get them again [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► inside and his head is that I know I [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► happen to know that Andy does read comic [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► books and probably from his perspective [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► and he knows these characters probably [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► thinks they deserved a lot better than [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► they got and I can relate to that like [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► where you know there's a property that [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► you take seriously or derive great [TS]

00:33:03 ◼   ► enjoyment of and so make some sloppy [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► movie out of it and you get angry about [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► it because you're like you know those [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► Ted though these guys like they don't [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► deserve to be in a stupid sloppy movie [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► it's as if like for example someone took [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► out a lord of the rings and made some [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► silly schlocky summer action movie we're [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► going to get the ring but I mean [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► somebody argue that they actually did [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► that but like you know I'm gonna pick [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► another property that you know and you [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► know part of it i would be or you know [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► or the Star Wars prequels for that [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► matter like there's some property that [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► you feel like deserves respect like for [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► example if you're big you're big Batman [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► fan and you go to Batman Begins you're [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► like yeah that's that's what you should [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► be doing with that man but if you go to [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► batman robin and someone comes out of [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► Batman Robin goes not expected to be [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► crapping it was and I enjoyed myself you [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► get mad at that person was like what do [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► you mean to enjoy Batman and Robin don't [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► they understand the true nature of the [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► dark knight and you I i can address that [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► i'm reminded of something that Jerry [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► Seinfeld used to say when people ask you [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► all to argue get like lots of fans of [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► the Seinfeld show to your stand-up act [TS]

00:33:59 ◼   ► and that does that help them like on [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► your side and he said that gets me on my [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► side for the first five minutes but [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► after that i'm totally on my own there [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► they become like a normal audience again [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► and i have to their i I've seen like for [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► my saw the watchman movie they had me [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► for the first well that's probably bad [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► example because the first scene 5 [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► minutes is [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► it's just a as a mini-movie in and of [TS]

00:34:22 ◼   ► itself is a wonderful wonderful piece of [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► art but what I'm getting at is that I [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► didn't take very long before I sort of [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► drop away everything that I know about [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► comics and everything that I'm hoping [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► this to be I'm not I'm not 12 years old [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► and I think oh my god it's Russia ash [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► and he's walking and talking this is [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► awesome [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► it'sit's it really does a go a different [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► way [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► the only I'll say one thing my only real [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► comic book geek reaction to this whole [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► movie was I'll really like samuel l [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► jackson as Nick Fury because this is the [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► first time in any Marvel related [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► anything that I've seen Nick Fury look [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► like samuel l jackson read it [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► immediately think what a piece of crap [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► this lazy artist who didn't want to draw [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► a head of invested espionage agency and [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► actually engage the reader into thinking [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► of investing this character i know i [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► know this famous movie character that [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► looks like a badass [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► I know if I draw this character to look [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► exactly like him [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► Ellen automatically think of him as a [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► badass i don't have to actually write [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► anything this is awesome [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► so those those really the beginning of [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► the end the only bit of it where I had [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► my comic book reader brain engage in [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► that I i spent the entire two-and-a-half [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► move two and a half hours this movie as [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► a movie viewer well i kinda want to go [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► back to something and he said about food [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► you know the the the oyster plates in [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► the empty calories in the end and you go [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► to a place you go to I don't know their [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► name a chain think of a no applebees [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► terrible terrible just did you know but [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► but you know kind of what you're getting [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► then you also know you also know that if [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► you're going to a a place like any sort [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► of upscale restaurant you just you just [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► you just know and so with respect to the [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► with respect to this film as a film that [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► you know what you expect from from the [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► Avengers or from any of these Marvel [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► properties is spectacle that's what [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► you're expecting I I never expected I [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► never expect [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► did I don't know Goodfellas or something [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► I was thinking of me the films that I [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► love I mean like birds Brazil or [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► something i didn't have never expected [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► anything like that from any of these [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► films the only things that have come [TS]

00:36:49 ◼   ► close to that are the the Nolan Batman [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► movies maybe and one of one of your [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► favorite films Jason in mind the [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► incredibles but i i i went to the [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► Avengers thinking this is going to be [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► cool to see mid midtown Manhattan laid [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► to waste it and if you don't have to [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► worry about who the aliens are it's just [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► going to be cool to see you know mass [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► destruction done up in in beautiful CGI [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► that you know the kind of thing that you [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► you got every month back in the [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► seventies and eighties when when I was [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► you know reading The Avengers an Ironman [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► and and and those books that's that's [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► what i wanted and that's what I got I [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► got a spectacle and and funny dialogue [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► oh yeah you know for those wide [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► spectacle you would have like [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► transformers two but like I think name [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► is complaint and and my complaint anyone [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► who thinks this movie isn't a great [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► movies that we didn't even get diehard [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► where it's like a straight through [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► action movie with some kind of like you [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► can do a silly action movie and not have [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► these just big gaping plot holes and [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► wasted characters an uncompleted story [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► arc center like it can be done [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► I you know so that's not okay so cant [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► cannot be done if the Givens are that [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► we've set up to iron man movies a Hulk [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► movie a captain america movie in a [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► community you have to take these [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► characters and you have to base it on [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► the Avengers comic books to some degree [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► and you know and we've we've set up the [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► the Cosmic Cube and we set up low key [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► and then edit it [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► I mean so that's one of one of my [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► questions and I realize it doesn't make [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► the movie better or worse based on the [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► degree of difficulty but I'm not [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► convinced that a movie like diehard [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► could possibly have come out of the the [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► Givens no because you're not compared to [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► die hard here you're comparing to the [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► expendables right you're comparing to a [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► movie that's full of like you know a [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► bunch of different guys it's essentially [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► a different movie diehard isn't [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► an ensemble movie die hard is a one guy [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► vs one bad guy movie you can you imagine [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► a better movie with the same characters [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► answer i can certainly imagine a better [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► movie with the same characters [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► constraints the other day and he pointed [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► out this parts of the movie that like [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► this there was flab and there's this [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► part that didn't make sense and it [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► doesn't it takes less time to make [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► things make sense sometimes it it could [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► have been fixed up right and maybe you [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► could even argue that since this is a [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► writer-director which we don't usually [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► see in a big movie like this at this [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► level that they gave him the keys now [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► you could argue that he didn't have [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► somebody saying you need to clear you [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► need to clear this up they just sort of [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► went with it and of course his shame is [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► that he made a movie that made it you [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► know gazillion dollars but I think you [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► could argue that maybe this movie could [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► have been better as certainly could have [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► been better as is if some stuff was [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► clearer and some character relationships [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► were clear i actually think that a lot [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► of Andy's complaints about like while [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► okies not on the Helicarrier I think [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► they actually are addressed in the movie [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► I just don't think they're addressed [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► clearly enough for you to notice them [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► without studying it at which point you [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► know you're no longer enjoy the movie [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► you're studying a screenplay [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► I mean again we're talking about a guy [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► who specializes in TV shows so you know [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► a guy who works with 13 hours of stuff [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► yeah [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► again I I'm and i am sure that there is [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► plenty of stuff that was also cut out of [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► this movie right i mean i think i heard [TS]

00:40:08 ◼   ► him reference the fact that they had [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► some stuff with the with the love [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► interest from Captain America but [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► decided you know that just doesn't [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► doesn't fit in still doesn't everyone [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► more appendage to it to attack wouldn't [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► really true but but at the same time you [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► know if you watch captain america right [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► like you kind of find yourself wondering [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► well you know that movie ends literally [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► with the last line being him but you [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► know that's what captain america 2 is [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► for i found myself i found myself [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► wondering why captain america a lot in [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► this movie like why is he the hair at [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► all what is he doing exactly you know [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► could they have gotten a gender to pull [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► that lever I I should correct myself [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► there are two things that kind of put me [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► back in a comic viewer mode when that [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► the second thing was this i have it i [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► went through this with the captain [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► america movie too [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► I really think that you stowed Lee [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► misunderstand the character and totally [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► screw up the character if you make him [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► superhuman [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► in any way that the the hope of what [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► makes captain america such a great [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► character is that all that all that that [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► world war two mad science it just [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► brought him to the pinnacle of human of [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► human potential it didn't give him any [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► still like a vulnerable guy who can't [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► jump 20 feet he can't catch up to a [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► speeding car he's got this really [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► kick-ass or kick-ass field that's very [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► very useful also very very useful that [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► if he gets thrown into their into the [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► character cable people go into [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► hibernation you can revive them also [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► very useful but every time there was a [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► God so he's punching through the [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► punching bag and I was just lifting the [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► new one up with one hand [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► okay but that's not something that I [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► faulted the movie for but i did i just [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► had to correct that something earlier [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► but that is this is another really [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► important point that I they also feel [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► like nice we made I don't really demand [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► even that a movie be perfect and have no [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► potholes no more than I demand that a [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► magician onstage never palma card and [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► never never [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► the this never would never point the [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► actor if I'm actually looking at his [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► left hand I can't i can actually see him [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► doing the move that makes the trick work [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► early early in the two in the trick [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► though the true magic is making sure [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► you're not looking at that hand to see [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► what the floor see like the giveaway for [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► a great movie i have to like a FYI i [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► didn't understand the usual suspects the [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► first time I watched it but man it was [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► so engaging I wanted to watch the second [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► and third and four top fourth time there [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► are other movies where they're just huge [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► plot holes that didn't even occur to me [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► until the second or third or fourth time [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► I watched it I didn't want them four [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► times because because I'm an obsessed [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► fan it's because man is such a good [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► movie i want to see it again so i added [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► to the list of crimes in the Avengers is [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► that it just wasn't a good enough movie [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► that I didn't notice all the things that [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► were wrong with it the first time I [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► honestly I almost it's I admitted that I [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► felt as though I i was home from this [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► movie about 30 minutes before it ended [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► because i was just about as i was bored [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► about halfway through about 20 minutes [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► or 30 minutes after that I was actually [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► starting to laugh at some of the [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► absurdities are seeing on the screen it [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► was again a good move a good movie hides [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► its flaws by just being so cap [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► debating and bring you into this world [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► so much that you don't even you you're [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► just being the magician's telling you [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► don't look at my left hand why would you [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► want to look at my left hand there's [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► nothing interesting happening my left [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► and you want to be looking at my right [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► hand and Sweden was absolutely unable to [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► do that for two-and-a-half hours maybe I [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► got hot i'd buy this movie that because [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► i felt like i was totally immersed in it [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► you can pick up on a lot of these things [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► and united we can talk about the [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► different different expectations and [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► different you know perceptions of it but [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► you know I and their stuff you bring up [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► now and you're right you're absolutely [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► valid points and issues to be made there [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► i guess for me it comes down to didn't [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► matter to me in terms of coming out that [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► movie and feeling like I enjoyed it i [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► mean and you can draw a line and say [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► there are movies you know should we [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► expect all movies to be you know [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► critically excellent as well as [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► enjoyable or can we you know judge these [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► things on different scales I mean as [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► John pointed out i think you know [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► something like die hard or you know [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► something like that man begins yeah I [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► think this stuff is crosses over a [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► little bit they can go from being you [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► know can be both enjoyable and [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► critically excellent but at the same [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► time you know if you come out of the [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► movie in feel like you know hey I [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► enjoyed that two-and-a-half hours and [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► then doesn't matter if the plot is [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► really nonsensical that's let that stuff [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► that's definitely something if you come [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► out thinking a great experience that's [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► in that is really the the whole point [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► also I believe that it's not necessary [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► that anyone type of movie or anyone [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► movie is better than the rest [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► I feel as though there is a letter [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► regardless of how you get to the end [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► credits there are some movies that just [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► achieve a flawless victory and to say [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► that [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► raiders of the lost ark is not as good a [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► movie as the third man innocent whether [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► or not as good movies yojimbo or not as [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► good movie as Annie Hall because they're [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► totally different movies that style that [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► I don't think that makes any sense [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► whatsoever [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► the point is that when you get to that [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► end of the movie did you have just [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► there's there's some ways that don't [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► just satisfy you with by the time I got [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► to the I felt as though by the time i [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► left the theater I got my eleven dollars [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► worth [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► there's somebody that really go beyond [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► that and they just stick with you [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► I mean that there's there's there's a [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► scene in the abyss that I probably think [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► about at least once a month since the [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► first time I saw that movie [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► we're not gonna get we you know John and [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► I can get four hours out of any Star [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► Wars movie we're probably not here for [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► hours and have adventures discussion [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► absolutely on the rate we're going it's [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► so so why would I didn't want to say you [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► know a movies and I don't think this is [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► the case with windy and the Avengers [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► movies hit you in different ways i have [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► had movies that I've seen in certain [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► circumstances where it's at home or in a [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► theater that have hit me perfectly and [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► I've enjoyed the experience so much and [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► i watch it back later and I realized [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► that it's got flaws and it is the magic [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► is gone and I've also had movies that [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► everybody liked that I hated and I've [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► revisited later and gone [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► oh this is so bad you know and and so I [TS]

00:46:07 ◼   ► think sometimes it is about you know [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► your whether it's the point of view and [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► you can escape hype either you know that [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► you don't ever see a movie out of any [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► context of it and so you know for me I [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► went in having heard the good reviews [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► and having seen the other movies i [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► enjoyed the movie although I I could [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► list flaws that i found while I was [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► sitting there including I actually think [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► that the last part III really enjoyed [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► the last half III thought the first half [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► the building that they did that a was [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► was too slow I i dislike the first 45 [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► minutes but I came out having had a [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► great time and and actually wanting to [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► see it again which is completely opposed [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► to andy's reaction to it and I think [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► that's interesting because I don't think [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► uh on the details of [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► criticism of the flaws of the movie [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► where that far apart there are the [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► Transformers business is beyond the pale [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► but other than that but uh and yet right [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► and yet yet Andy is walking away with a [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► very different set of feelings about it [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► then that I was and I you know I i I'm [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► not a gigantic lifelong Avengers fan [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► I've seen the other Marvel movies and [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► some of them are good and some are ok [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► and yet I I came out and I do love Joss [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► Whedon's work except for dollhouse which [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► I thought was terrible but um I you know [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► I enjoyed it and I would see it and [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► would see it again and I haven't seen a [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► movie twice in the theater since the JJ [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► Abrams Star Trek movie actually it's [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► been it's been awhile and i would go see [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► this movie again because i did enjoy it [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► so I I you know I think and then dan I [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► mean and and Ben seem to be certainly in [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► that same boat and I find that [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► fascinating that we could in some ways [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► agree on the specifics of the flaws of [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► the movie and yet wildly disagree on [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► whether we thought the movie was [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► enjoyable and I don't you know I don't [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► really know how to quantify that it you [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► know about why you know that it's [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► something to be reconciled that very [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► subjective thing at that point and we [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► can we can agree or disagree you know we [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► can agree to a certain extent [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► objectiveness about whether or not this [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► movie you know is kind of fix it [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► critically excellent movie let's put it [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► that way and yet different you know [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► subjectively on whether or not we [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► enjoyed it and i think that you know [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► that's fine [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► this room for this room for everybody is [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► exactly say I'm communities [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► I'm a friend haha I maps i'm actually [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► not challenging anybody's claim that [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► they and let's say anybody anybody [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► anybody and you read it [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► exactly so I mean I i certainly think [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► its paws it's an enjoyable movie you [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► mean you mean capable of being enjoyed [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► by someone is that what type III where I [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► approve of [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► I will not I will I will I will say [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► Jason your your inner circle friends [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► here nothing can happen here that you [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► don't want to happen we just want to go [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► around the room if you just be quiet for [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► 20 minutes and talk about how your [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► fandom of Joss Whedon has affected each [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► of us in our lives in turn and after [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► that after we're done talking we're [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► gonna give you two options and we hope [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► you choose the right one but it's [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► completely in your tent who wants to [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► start [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► well I found the Black Widow is very [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► much like Buffy and I've written an [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► essay about how what she means to me and [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► and how the feminism is a spout but now [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► you failed to see the parallels between [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► Buffy and the love boat where sometimes [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► they had good episodes but I saw Salina [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► very very bad i did not fail to see them [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► conduct Jason again I thought we all [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► agreed that you'd be quiet just let [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► anyone speak and turn again [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► well as the host I really can't this is [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► my therapy session I'm the therapist [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► here not you and not go daddy o's on the [TS]

00:49:48 ◼   ► podcast Jason this is an intervention [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► just joss whedon is that what you used [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► to collect you did it in pursuing this [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► lifestyle you've neglected to factor in [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► the fact that joss whedon is [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► unfortunately a television producer and [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► therefore has not no soul but less solar [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► then a novelist or some other movies [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► with screenwriter would have ok i wanna [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► i wanna step away from the overarching a [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► view of the movie and why Andy dislikes [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► it and why India's horribly wrong [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► no I i wanna i wanna talk about the [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► characters a little bit more and [TS]

00:50:19 ◼   ► specifically what I wanted to bring up [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► is the Hulk because the Hulk has had you [TS]

00:50:27 ◼   ► know we all of us got to see Bill Bixby [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► as as children on cps he was on the run [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► from a crusading newspaper reporter [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► don't have those anymore and he would be [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► angry and he turned into lou ferrigno [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► well not all of those cases are sorry [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► Dan all of us who are not ten years old [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► anyway that was the first place many of [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► many Americans saw the whole it and then [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► we've seen two movies angley's Hulk with [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► Eric Bana and and then the edmonton the [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► edward norton hall incredible hulk and [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► now we've got Mark Ruffalo as banner and [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► a Gruffalo ask cgi blob as the whole and [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► I so here-here's the thing i think the [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► Hulk is a really problematic character [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► yes I think you might actually make my [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► own high school girlfriend is is married [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► to the world's largest you know like [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► this [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► super fan of The Incredible Hulk he's [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► like mr. Hulk guy and i never i don't [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► understand i think you're a fan of the [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► whole iin it always baffled me like he's [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► a fan of anger or or a tornado right I [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► guess anybody who listens to John's [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► podcast probably a pic and so this is [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► the thing I liked how Banner and the [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► Hulk were handled in the Avengers i [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► think this is one of the things that [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► this movie did a pretty good job because [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► we've seen the Hulk botched I a lot [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► lately and I thought that banner was an [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► interesting character when women [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► scarlett johansson goes to get him and [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► then when he's on the Helicarrier and [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► he's talking to Tony Stark and he's got [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► you know that they have that interesting [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► interaction which I talked about earlier [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► and that the Hulk to is not just a [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► tornado and we can we can argue about [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► why he's not always that way but he has [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► some great moments including the I think [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► applause moment in the movie where he [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► gets listens to Loki speech and then [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► just use and like a rag doll just [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► smashes him around [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► um I i thought this movie was the best [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► take on the Hulk I've seen maybe ever [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► only because I feel like everybody else [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► had no idea how to use the Hulk and it [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► becomes the Hulk in and of itself is not [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► an interesting that interesting no [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► banner banner as a person is is I think [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► far more interesting especially if he's [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► just a rage monster who just got her are [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► and bashes things and it doesn't even [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► talk right right because there's no [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► motivation there's no complexity there's [TS]

00:52:58 ◼   ► no I mean the struggle of him not to [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► Hulk out is the interesting part of that [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► character right and i think they gave [TS]

00:53:07 ◼   ► Ruffalo more to do than they did in [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► either the northerner bona versions [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► which were defined solely by the fact [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► that he's on the run right he's on the [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► defensive and this time they actually [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► gave him something stuff to do that felt [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► proactive and yeah I don't know hehe [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► bring much more interesting here to me [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► than he did in either the prior to move [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► yeah i think i think the secret is that [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► the Hulk really doesn't work as a star [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► in character for all the reasons that [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► you mentioned he works very very good as [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► a supporting character or when he is [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► simply [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► that presence where imagine that that [TS]

00:53:41 ◼   ► they might imagine that that that toward [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► that tornado movie from about seven or [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► eight years ago where where the entire [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► movie was about the tornado as opposed [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► to everybody who the meteorologist is [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► tracking the tornado the mainland [TS]

00:53:53 ◼   ► visitors toss twister thank you very [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► much helen hunt with Helen with hell I [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► find that's terrible terrible movie [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► exactly but but but in terms of [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► developing story [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► you can't you you it's hard to do a [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► whole movie about that where the central [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► character is the Holt you can do a very [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► good character if he is this presidency [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► it's okay better better better example [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► the better movie imagine jaws but the [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► entire movie was from the perspective of [TS]

00:54:18 ◼   ► the shark it shouldn't be about the [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► shark it should be about all the people [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► of the problems of a shark represents [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► the Hulk is the villain in some ways [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► right [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► yeah even my goodness if you would like [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► to do you prefer less poverty and he [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► he's he's supremely I mean in in a genre [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► with superheroes where everybody is [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► supremely powerful and they say fight [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► you know when they're cranky but they [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► all come together and made the villain [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► has is is all-powerful and undefeatable [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► and then is easily defeated right in the [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► in this whole genre of that what the [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► Hulk is interesting about the Hulk feels [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► uncontrollable and you don't know what [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► he's going to do and he actually in [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► injects a a level of that that you don't [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► get from other superheroes that are kind [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► of more boring that the Hulk is this you [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► know uncontrollable he's a force of [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► undefined yeah exactly and and that's [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► that's great but he's not really a [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► character in and he and Andy's point is [TS]

00:55:16 ◼   ► not a lead in any way shape or form and [TS]

00:55:21 ◼   ► so the way he's deployed in the Avengers [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► in some ways it's brilliant that you [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► know because he has all of these other [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► things going on and then the Hulk just [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► needs to do his little Hulk bit which he [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► does really well and mark mark ruffalo [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► is the best banner that I've seen any [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► and anything I guess [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► oh yes got that kind of rumpled but he [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► you believe he's a scientist right you [TS]

00:55:41 ◼   ► believe he's a genius scientist which is [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► what banner is supposed to be and you [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► believe he's sad about this situation [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► yeah more than anything else I think you [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► believe that [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► he is working very very hard every [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► second of his life never to let his [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► emotions get out of control [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► yeah yeah I think I think and I you know [TS]

00:56:00 ◼   ► you can arise or lowes and and bonded to [TS]

00:56:03 ◼   ► a certain extent as actors but yeah [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► those movies did not they didn't really [TS]

00:56:07 ◼   ► do a good job of that character and it [TS]

00:56:11 ◼   ► never of the banner character anyways [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► for me but like India what Hulk was what [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► Bruce Banner was asked to do in this [TS]

00:56:17 ◼   ► movie was mostly done with that you know [TS]

00:56:19 ◼   ► gamma rays find the blood and whatever [TS]

00:56:21 ◼   ► like that was so stupid like but i [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► wanted the character I want to see more [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► of is I haven't seen the thor movie and [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► I thought he was amusing and so i think [TS]

00:56:29 ◼   ► i'm now going to watch the movie because [TS]

00:56:30 ◼   ► i think it will be funny [TS]