The Incomparable

00:00:07 ◼   ► the incomparable podcast number 100 [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► delight well well [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► it's the incomparable podcast I'm your [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► host Jason L this is a very special [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► edition of the uncomfortable and that is [TS]

00:00:34 ◼   ► episode number 100 [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► it's a lie i feel like this is a huge [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► milestone other than the fact that you [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► know we just do a podcast every week and [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► in less than two years you are at [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► episode 100 but we use a base-10 [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► counting system and 100 a milestone so [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► I've caught I've gathered together to [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► celebrate episode number 100 the five [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► panelists on the incomparable who have [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► been on the most episodes of this show [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► they are the core members of the [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► incomparable panel and i'm going to [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► introduce them in order of their their [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► appearances their number of appearances [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► on the show by the way i should say I'm [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► Jason Snell who has appeared on 90 of [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► the 100 episodes of the uncomfortable so [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► one in ten you don't have to listen to [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► me but if two-thirds 68 episodes of the [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► incomparable have featured the man who's [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► on every podcast damn Ouran High Dam I i [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► was told there would be no math well I'm [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► do i did the math for you [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► oh well that's that's well Jason I [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► appreciate it's good to be here as I am [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► contractually obligated to be on every [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► podcast yes or at least two-thirds of [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► the incomparable podcast that's a writer [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► that we attach later my agent had some [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► concerns i love [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► also joining me is a serenity caldwell [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► who has appeared on exactly half of the [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► episodes of the uncomfortable 50 of me [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► 100 welcome 50 whole episodes i would [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► say this feels like a milestone Jason [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► accepted it feels like a podcast which [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► is pretty much like every other podcast [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► pretty much a little hotter today [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► yeah that's that's about right also [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► joining me Scott McNulty who has [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► appeared on 49 of 100 podcast episodes I [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► Scott so close to 50 I'm an [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► underachiever the next one you'll get [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► you'll get there with the next one will [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► do something that is a topic that rent [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► isn't interested in them then you'll be [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► it you'll be on top [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► John Syracuse's here he has appeared on [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► 43 incomparable podcast hai jaan and [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► blue and I blew my long game why is it [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► 43 i was going [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► 42 what happened I don't know what this [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► one counts as number 43 [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► if you messed up this encounters for I [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► was 42 exactly do we do we start without [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► you worry [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► does anyone remember now that would put [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► me at 44 he's counting this episode is [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► he ruined my master papermaster plant [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► episode 0 is missing that Voice you [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► heard is the man who's been on 38 [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► episodes of the uncomfortable one flesh [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► you know if you count on number 6 I'm [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► number six if you count the number of [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► episodes on which I'm ridiculed it gets [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► closer to 80 know that's true [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► oh that's very true i should also point [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► out in the since we're talking [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► incomparable trivia here that although [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► i've hosted 19 episodes i've actually [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► appeared on 93 haha because sometimes I [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► appear even though i'm not the host but [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► i would like to thank glen and Dan both [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► of whom have hosted four episodes of the [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► incomparable how is it four episodes [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► yeah I memory of that long then retired [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► lost amidst the time watching game after [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► game hosting episode 42 and music [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► episode of futurama episode at three [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► you're going to them and then there's [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► the light is some games did some game [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► episode i remember that and I think I [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► pinch-hit for you want him when you were [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► out [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► yeah but what if you remember all there [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► is the last minute I ar-15 cast yeah [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► that's right yeah i recall i did a [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► disaster three jason i got an important [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► question for you are you counting [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► additional projects such as our [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► wonderful riff track episode who had no [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► her know that had no host [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► really [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► but it did feature for members in fact [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► you didn't eat your members of the panel [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► that doesn't count either damn great [TS]

00:04:26 ◼   ► nice also hosted an episode and lex [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► friedman of course hosted our recent [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► jonathan coulton episode as well as an [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► alternate universe version of the [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► incompetent that's right the fake [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► episode be altered the first version so [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► the purpose here the topic here and we [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► and we do sort of have one that rather [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► than just counting up episodes of the [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► incomparable for our first hundred [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► episodes is to talk about why we do the [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► incomparable why is this here and I and [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► i'll admit that this idea came to me as [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► all my good ideas do in the shower [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► because that happens and I we we ran a [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► podcast a few weeks ago that was that [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► dead involved some criticism of a [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► blockbuster movie I'm not gonna I'm not [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► gonna name any names but one of the [TS]

00:05:14 ◼   ► panelists didn't like this beloved [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► blockbuster movie and and people were [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► really upset and I thought that was [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► really interesting and I juxtapose that [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► with a review that was posted on itunes [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► around the same time from a listener who [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► apparently listen to one episode but i [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► think i think listeners includes Jason [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► yeah I was listener that was I look [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► floats for implied there who complained [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► that all we ever do is praised things [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► and recap what happened and not actually [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► do anything more insightful than that [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► well I thought that review was really [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► good and here's what it said uh-huh [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► I thought we would just talk about why [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► we do the podcast and why we like the [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► stuff we do and what's the purpose of a [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► of a show like this and and you know it [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► when our dear colleagues said he didn't [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► like the that superhero movie and quite [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► honestly if we've been doing the podcast [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► a few years ago I would have said that I [TS]

00:06:09 ◼   ► didn't like the dark knight and people [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► would have freaked out about that too [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► but we also do episodes where like the [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► star wars episodes where although we we [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► pick up things were also really just [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► talking about something that we that we [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► love so and then you know it goes back [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► and forth then then you take something [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► like the ready ready player one podcast [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► where we really just kind of ripped the [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► book apart i was not on that one [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► the way I kind of liked that book but [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► wasn't on it so my question for all of [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► you guys is you know why other than your [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► devotion to me I suppose [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► why you know why do you like being on [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► the podcast and you know what is your [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► approach when when when you come on i [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► mean they are you trying to be critical [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► you're trying to just talk about stuff [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► that you like what's the what's the [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► point of it all why are we here [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► John siracusa you are famous for being [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► hypocritical it's our said devotion to [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► this ancient macworld editor [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► haha that's right it's all coming out [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► now yeah I've was too i just made the [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► joke when you mentioned the topic of the [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► show that i was going to sue you for [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► stealing the idea for of Christ lon cast [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► than everything related to it because [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► they are back in 2009 i wrote a blog [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► post and ours back when actually blogged [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► on ours the title of which was [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► hypercritical which some people might [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► recognized as the future title of my [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► current podcast yes you appeared on the [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► incomparable podcast and we're so great [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► that damn Benjamin said hey he should [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► have his own podcast yeah and it was [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► like this was the genesis of it is that [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► i wrote a thing about a bit because I [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► write a lot of articles and my articles [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► i complain about stuff and that like [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► that's kind of like my stick right I am [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► I first started doing it people would [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► decide who i was based on the fact that [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► I was complaining about things so here's [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► this guy that never seen before and he's [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► writing about apple stuff and it's full [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► of complaints so this must be somebody [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► who hates Apple I didn't take long to [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► dispel that notion but it was kind of [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► funny to me going from being the mac [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► fanboy on the internet to all the sudden [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► everyone saying you pc user you probably [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► never used back in your life you don't [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► like them why you've been writing about [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► the right and so that that thing like [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► where if you criticize something that [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► means like you're taking sides against [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► it or something was strange to me and [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► funny and so that this much later [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► article around uh about the idea of [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► criticizing something was trying to [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► explain why i personally do it and the [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► value that I think there is in [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► criticizing something that's kinda like [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► I think that Alan cake what you know is [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► that you [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► Macintosh was the first computer were [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► criticizing to me the things i'm most [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► interested in criticizing other things [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► that could have been great but weren't [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► or really really good but just have one [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► thing that's a little bit off you know I [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► mean so i'm not inclined to do like [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► entire podcast about something that I [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► see no redeeming value in so for example [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► we ripped apart ready player one right [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► but that's a science-fiction book about [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► people who go around in a video game [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► world [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► I like that kind of thing right on i'm [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► not doing a book about I read this you [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► know we didn't read 50 shades of grey [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► and write like armies and we never [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► planned to wait wait we didn't read that [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► I mean we didn't read that [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► oh yeah and it's so like it's even [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► though where you know all you guys just [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► like to rip apart were ripping apart [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► things that we read we are interested in [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► because it's like it's right up our [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► alley [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► I totally into books about people [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► running around in a virtual video game [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► world with a tease like you know it and [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► that's that that's one thing that people [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► don't get because if you come into it [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► thinking that if you say something bad [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► about that you know any piece of media [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► or whatever you're taking sides against [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► it and that's totally not how I view it [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► yeah I i agree with that i mean i think [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► that it's interesting to hear people's [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► complaints about something that I liked [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► and I know not lots of people don't [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► react that way and we saw that after the [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► Avengers podcast is that people a lot of [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► people enjoyed it and then when they [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► heard the criticism of that they they [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► got really mad and that's fine to [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► disagree but I I'm always fascinated [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► when I hear somebody's complaints about [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► something whether I like it or not if [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► they go into some detail in it and it [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► makes me and makes me think about it and [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► that goes to what you said John about [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► you know being the first whatever worth [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► criticized thing is there is value in [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► having something that's worth looking at [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► critically at all and if it leads me to [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► a place where I appreciate the work more [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► i understand it more or I think I [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► mentioned this to to it when we did the [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► jonathan coulton podcast and I briefly [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► got to got to talk to him i mean it i [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► love the fact that when I saw inception [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► I thought about it for five days and I [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► thought about lots of different aspects [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► of it and I decided I kind of didn't [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► like it but the fact was I really am [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► glad that I saw it [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► was it had you know it was thought [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► provoking and it was worth me that you [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► know worth the time for me to think why [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► don't I like this and what what's the [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► detail my wife and I talked about it and [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► anything with you liked it dislike I [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► really think that having that ability to [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► kind of take it apart and talk about why [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► did it work or why did it not work is as [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► valuable um you know I I'd I I don't [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► have a problem that i know that some [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► people that bothers some people but i [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► always i love it my favorite um praise [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► that i get for the uncomfortable is when [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► people say I've seen that movie about [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► you know I a half dozen times and had [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► never thought about that seemed that way [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► until you guys talked about it that way [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► and i love that because it shows that [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► this stuff that we love even if it's a [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► sci-fi movie or you know a sci-fi book [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► or whatever it is it can be enhanced by [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► that kind of scrutiny whether you're [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► loving it or whether you're pointing out [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► that the latter on the x-wing doesn't [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► have anyplace to go it's still [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► interesting well nobody likes to hear [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► something that they really like just get [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► trashed i mean i think that we all you [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► know if there's something you're really [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► passionate about is something you really [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► care about or book you really like a [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► movie that you love [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► it's no fun to hear somebody else just [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► like trash it right i mean there there's [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► a way I think it which is what John is [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► saying there is a way to look at these [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► things critically and say this is good [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► but here are some you know criticisms or [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► or you know things that I've noticed [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► that perhaps you haven't thought about [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► and I think there is value in that I [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► also you know I think there's a value in [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► talking positively about these kind of [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► works as even in cases where you feel [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► like you want to be critical because [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► there are things that bothered you about [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► it it's worthwhile to say what you liked [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► about things not only because I think we [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► all are in part here because we enjoy [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► sharing things that we like with other [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► people who we think might like them but [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► also because i don't know for me someone [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► who has spent time you know trying to [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► create something it's nice to feel like [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► there are people behind it's nice to be [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► remembered that there are people behind [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► these things right and these people in [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► many cases are trying very hard to [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► accomplish [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► think they're not always you know [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► nailing it perfectly but you know these [TS]

00:13:17 ◼   ► are these are creations born of man and [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► so it's nice to see you know that [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► recognize and say well I like what this [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► person did hear you know that showed [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► some thought I fought hard to be on the [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► second episode of this podcast primarily [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► because i really wanted to talk over a [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► series i had just seen sherlock with [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► people because at that point I was [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► living in a relatively small town in [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► western Massachusetts and had absolutely [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► no geeky friends in proximity so I had [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► just like I just watched sherlock i had [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► just started reading some of the books [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► that were being discussed in the book [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► club in episode 1 and when I found out [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► that Jason was doing this it was very [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► much a oh gosh finally people I can talk [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► about interesting books and movies and [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► television with I must be on this [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► podcast then I think I pestered you [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► until you let me on but I i really enjoy [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► coming together and talking about [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► subjects that were interested in be a [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► television be books i love the format of [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► the podcast and that we'd it's not [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► necessarily you know we show up every [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► week and then we decide what we want to [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► talk about but having the idea of all we [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► have the book club and we have you know [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► TV stuff and we have comics and like all [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► I read comics I don't read them heavily [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► enough that I want to discuss them with [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► other people so it's like it's nice that [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► i can go i can sit back and listen to [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► things than being comfortable but you [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► know i'm i'm not necessarily qualified [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► to talk about but when it comes to come [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► when it comes to like television when it [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► comes to books I it's not only a good [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► way to talk about things that I've just [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► you know that we've just seen or we've [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► just read or listen to but it's also at [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► least for me when we're discussing you [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► know topics ahead of time of oh you know [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► what book should we read what a what TV [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► shows have been caught in people's [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► memories like there have been a lot of [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► books that i read in this last year that [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► i would have otherwise just either seen [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► and been like oh that sounds cool but [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► just not gotten around to it [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► or just missed entirely that thanks to [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► the incomparable it's like Oh ready [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► player one yeah I'll sit down and read [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► that in afternoon so we can talk about [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► it on a podcast because i think it would [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► be fun or name of the wind you know [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► they're there are a lot of a lot of [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► great podcast some great television some [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► really terrible books that I've read all [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► thanks to the stuff you're welcome for [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► the terrible book huh that's all the [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► terrible books had their own you know [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► enjoyment because again talking about [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► even you know I it's no secret that I [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► didn't particularly enjoy the magician's [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► but having a group of people to talk [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► about with the reasons why i disliked [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► the magician's made me made like some of [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► the reading of that book okay like oh [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► well I had to read this book and I [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► didn't really like it but at least I got [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► to hear other people's opinions on the [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► book and I got to you know debate it [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► with some people and that was really fun [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► so yeah being comfortable it is a good [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► way to learn about media [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► well I i read i mean i've read i read [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► more books now that i have a kindle and [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► then uh then the uncomfortable on top of [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► that has made me read a lot more and [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► that's a good thing and and you're right [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► not not all the books have been good but [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► they died I appreciate it and a lot of [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► them have been very good and that was [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► the idea with the first episode we [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► recorded which we didn't even have a [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► title for we recorded two episodes [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► trials before we even posted any and one [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► of them was the the book club episode [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► the very first book club and we call [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► that specifically to in order to try and [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► have that that feeling of a bunch of [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► people coming together having read a [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► book and and just talking it over and [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► and i and maybe getting some interesting [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► perspectives that they didn't have when [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► they read the book and trying to apply [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► that then to anything whether it's a [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► comic or a movie or TV show and I i [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► think that has worked pretty well [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► because a hundred episodes later we're [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► still doing and we're still you know [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► finding interesting [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► boy there's no shortage we just did a [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► podcast number 99 that had like what [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► like 40 books that we mentioned it's [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► great there's never a shortage [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► there's so much stuff out there one cut [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► particular kind of episode that we do [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► are these kind of these praise sessions [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► more or less about things that we really [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► lovely especially movies that we really [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► love and they aren't as critical they [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► there is some insight in them but [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► they're not you know we're not [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► necessarily criticizing the princess [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► bride or Star Wars movies or raiders of [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► the lost ark when we when we talk about [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► them and yet I I don't feel that it [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► devolves into hey do you remember that [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► scene that was really great I feel like [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► when I i hear what other people have to [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► say about those movies I'm gaining some [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► insight that I didn't have before about [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► that movie that i love and i may have [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► seen 20 times but that that I know that [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► through somebody else's eyes there's [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► going to be something else there that I [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► hadn't really thought of whether it was [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► you know John Gruber talking about [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► certain scenes and raiders of the lost [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► ark or or John siracusa talking about [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► the the han and Leia relationship which [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► is one of my favorite moments in any [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► uncomfortable that we've done where you [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► you parse through and basically say you [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► know their relationship has changed by [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► the time to get to cloud city and they [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► probably had sex and had just blew me [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► away i had never ever thought of it that [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► way and how many times have I seen the [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► empire strikes back so you know those [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► aren't critical episodes necessarily in [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► the sense of us thinking about the [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► negative they're not negative right but [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► there-there think you know like you were [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► starting out by saying these are things [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► that bear enough substance that they are [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► worth it there is something there [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► there's something there there's more [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► than just as on them was just on the [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► surface and you can actually dig into [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► that and that's not true with every [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► movie right there's a lot of or book or [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► TV show etc there's all these you know [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► there's there's so much crap floating [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► around [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► I think you know is that surgeons lon [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► ninety percent of everything is crap [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► moralist so that ten percent of stuff [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► that's actually good you know is worth [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► delving into to figure out i think for [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► us me most was being geeks we have a you [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► know an interesting figure out what [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► makes things tick why does it work [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► why is this successful even if it's not [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► successful in every way why is it [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► successful in the ways that it is and [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► what can we learn from that and that's [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► interesting to talk about because you [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► know people want to know what makes [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► things [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► tick or work or why did this movie [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► succeed where this other movie that [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► seems very much like it on the surface [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► fail [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► Scott you uh you read a lot of books [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► yes many many books [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► yes yes all right wait for it is a [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► question of do you remember any of them [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► Scott anything except not many books i [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► remember the one I'm reading right now [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► so when we talk about books uh you know [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► you you go through a lot and I imagine [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► that because I mean read some of the [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► books that you recommend i imagine you [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► read a lot of books that are that are [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► not very good to that are kind of crappy [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► books and and you know I think what it [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► is interesting about what we tried to do [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► here is we don't generally pick on the [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► crappy books right we we we tend to [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► focus more on the ones that we think are [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► worth somebody else's time rather than [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► knowingly inflicting like The Magicians [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► I didn't knowingly inflict that on [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► serenity I I hadn't read it when I said [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► we should read it I just thought that [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► between that and the night circus we had [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► a little bit of sort of synergy there [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► about magical kind of books that people [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► are talking about it turned out that she [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► hated it I know I for one and really [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► really glad that Scott McNulty read so [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► many books because I basically use him [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► as a giant brita filter for books where [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► every time he says he recommends a book [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► it goes on my list to read [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► he's filled with activated charcoal [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► exactly activated charcoal to wash out [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► all of your terrible books looks really [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► cool in the fridge they're nice they're [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► getting you know it he's a multi-tasker [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► read a lot of wonderful things if you [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► can remember its title let alone what [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► it's about [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► that is a good sign i think exactly true [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► yeah and that's what you know I i enjoy [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► participating in the incomparable [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► although I'm not as vocal as many of the [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► other panelists I like to consider my [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► thoughts on like you people don't talk [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► about because a i get to inflict books [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► upon other people and then it's [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► interesting all the books that i [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► recommend like jason said to for us to [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► discuss on the podcast are books that [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► I've enjoyed and I think merit [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► discussion and so it's interesting to me [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► when I have really liked the book and [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► then you know the rest of the panelists [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► read it and someone has [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► I enjoyed it as much as I it's [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► interesting to see their perspective and [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► how they explain how they can come to [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► the wrong opinion that's always [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► interesting and then the other side of [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► the court is getting a chance like red [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► set to read books that I normally [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► wouldn't read like ready player one I [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► probably wouldn't have picked up because [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► it just is not something that I would be [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► interested in and then i read it and it [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► wasn't very good so that kind of makes [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► me feel better about my own tastes [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► behind so those are the big thing of [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► their both selfish obviously because I [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► was selfish man but that is what that is [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► why I enjoy participating in the income [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► thank you Scott York who else would like [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► to say complimentary things about [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► participating think i have a thing to [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► say yes gland please my thing the floor [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► today is it is my thing is that i know [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► that i started reading science fiction [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► and fantasy to a lesser extent i started [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► like like the whole genre as a kid [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► there were times in my life when I was [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► less popular unpopular and their time in [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► my life when I was quite popular [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► surprisingly enough i know for this [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► programs using any of us might have been [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► popular [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► I find that hard to believe what time [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► what time are we and now he's saying [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► that you know people there was a point [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► in my life when I senior class president [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► is all I'm saying but that was the house [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► in my life I don't necessarily she was [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► your vice president was like Nixon or [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► something he had to resign mid-semester [TS]

00:23:33 ◼   ► was terrible controversy but metaphor [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► more apps than you could thought Dan so [TS]

00:23:37 ◼   ► glad you were sometimes popular can be [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► spoken our graduation it's hot gases [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► over that's what I have to have to do it [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► and I have to do so anyway because he's [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► a nice man at the world or a white suit [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► anyway the reason is I you know their [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► choice my life in which you will use [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► escapist fiction whether it's you know [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► more realistic or fantastical use it to [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► escape your life and there's times that [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► you're you read it because it enhances [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► your life and i have to say as I've [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► become a you know as I because I've [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► grown up [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► ostensibly growing up and gotten older [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► so has the medium for us when we were [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► all younger or even before we were long [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► before born there are times when science [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► fiction especially in fantasy maybe even [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► more so we're sort of pulp and all the [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► medium which they occurred [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► they weren't that sophisticated you can [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► find examples of it i mean the great [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► stories of old comic books or certain [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► series of certain writers that you know [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► develop deeper themes in their work but [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► you would have this gets into the genre [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► ghetto issue you know that's still being [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► fought but there is a point which you [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► could say that a lot of was being [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► produced maybe in the forties fifties [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► sixties couldn't easily be compared to [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► what was being produced in fiction at [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► the time or even nonfiction let's say it [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► wasn't as interesting as wasn't deep [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► then explore the recesses of the human [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► mind I don't think you can say that [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► about the last 30 years of output and so [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► when I want something like a doctor who [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► episode even even when it's unless it's [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► one of our very fluffy silly ones there [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► are issues that are being presented [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► their that you have to have the filter [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► of an alternative universe so you can [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► set the parameters so you can explore [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► intellectually a concept there is no way [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► to do with the framework of realistic [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► fiction and I think that to me is the [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► fundamental reason I'm interested in all [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► this serve a genre of things that are [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► impossible that you can read about draw [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► write about participating is that it [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► lets you explore intellectual ideas that [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► are simply not possible in in other [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► realms of expression and it's one reason [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► why I think things like abstract art [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► when the art world was overturned the [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► 1800 you start have non realistic [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► depictions of art and then the nineteen [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► hundreds it's completely broken apart [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► with the darkest sand Wars you know [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► producing new kinds of art because of [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► people's response that the same thing [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► that that art made people angry because [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► it forced them to confront the problem [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► of life confront the kids they're being [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► fed and have to think about things that [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► were difficult and hard and one of the [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► greatest descriptions ever read and I [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► think this is it's not specifically [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► treated say the science fiction fantasy [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► but i think it's just like that is i'm [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► stephen roche the minimalist composer [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► when he premiered one of his [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► compositions for orgo some he's you know [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► he's the sub his work it's repetitive [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► it's this he says it's rude and [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► gregorian chant is very slight changes [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► in the pieces [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► Carson maddening and beautiful in their [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► way it was premiered I think it was the [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► nineteen seventies to season-ticket [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► holder goods and people were so angry [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► they went up in there pounding on the [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► stage people left in your like he made [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► them think in a different way so i love [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► this genre and I've grown to really [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► enjoy being able to talk about it with [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► you all and to have the feedback we get [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► through Twitter and email and hearing [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► the people read the same thing because i [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► think it's a great way to explore ideas [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► that make our brains bigger you always [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► you always talk about how an FM hack [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► your brain by introducing the concepts [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► that you had to actually internalized [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► before you can understand what you're [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► what you're reading and i would argue [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► that you know any good novel I or [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► actually any story you could argue to [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► actual brain a little bit that stories [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► are machines intended to perfect you [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► know create a a specific response [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► elicited a response in you and and and [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► but NM actually has a whole vocabulary [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► that goes with it and I read about that [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► with other people is I you know there's [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► times when i read a book and I think [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► this is so meaningful and you talk to [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► the people they find not as much and the [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► same effect [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► I remember going through and family i [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► was i was better blogging or tweeting at [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► the time that like it was like I made [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► base camp at page 350 I'm gonna try the [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► ascent to page four hundred tomorrow and [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► if I you know if I don't freeze 500 you [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► know where to find my body and after the [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► first time through that he was [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► presenting so much conceptual framework [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► the whole universe was off he was [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► inviting language do you other panelists [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► get that sense when you're reading [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► certain kinds of books that are that [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► Howard but worthwhile that your brain is [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► being weird that actually felt like I [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► had to learn and shift my perspective [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► just to get through the book and then [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► another time like I already have all [TS]

00:28:13 ◼   ► this my head all these names have been [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► constructed have to do all this heavy [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► work in the mean mines well I mean it [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► you know I think Steven doesn't way [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► that's very it's very deliberate in a [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► way that it's it's more transparent and [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► other books that don't have that sort of [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► steep learning curve [TS]

00:28:29 ◼   ► I think he draws a lot of attention to [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► it because he spends time replacing [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► things that you can actively identify [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► things that aren't entirely novel [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► concepts right like you might read a [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► science-fiction book and they might have [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► its own terminology or fantasy book that [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► has its own rules and terminology and [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► you sort of have two pieces together as [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► you go along ok there's a supernatural [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► creatures got this magic it works like [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► this and understand all that whereas he [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► was taking stuff that exist in our world [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► you know [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► telephones the digital cameras and stuff [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► like that and just put slapping your [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► name on it and i think that was [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► effective it for me anyways it worked it [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► was interesting as a piece of art I [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► agree that it was something that it felt [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► kind of like a slog until you hit the [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► crest at a point where you have [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► internalized all that vocabulary but [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► yeah i don't know i mean those are [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► against this sort of goes back to the [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► idea i was talking about before which is [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► that you know this this is stuff that [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► has clearly taken a lot of work and a [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► lot of deliberate thought to construct [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► and that that makes it interesting to [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► discuss general for me I I cuz i read i [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► read non sci-fi and stuff and seen on [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► sci-fi movies and TV shows i I'm not a [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► specific one genre kind of person and I [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► I there are some books it's actually [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► very strange when one of the authors [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► that I like who doesn't right [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► genre stuff suddenly does like when when [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► nick hornby wrote a slam which has a [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► sci-fi element of it that was crazy but [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► but yet there's something about that [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► moment where you realize you anything is [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► possible that you don't have that the [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► that the story you're hearing doesn't [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► have to abide by the rules of the [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► universe and that goes back to stories [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► we hear is you know fairy tales and [TS]

00:30:11 ◼   ► things like that we here as kids that [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► are our fantastic nature and anything is [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► possible and I just always loved that [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► that sense that that you're really [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► allowing the imagination of the writer [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► to come to the fore and that anything is [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► possible I could be i love those moments [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► in the in the george RR martin books [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► where r early on in the in Game of [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► Thrones where you forget for a while [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► that there's magic in this world you [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► think you've sort of are just following [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► the rules and then they're suddenly it's [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► magic and it's shocking and really cool [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► that they're there's something different [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► or that you can tell a story about [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► modern issues in inhuman you know in [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► culture [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► or stroke broad stories about human [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► nature and set them on a spaceship or [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► something and you know you don't realize [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► what you're seeing until until you [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► finally do and you're like oh I see [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► what's going on here [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► I just I always have loved that shift in [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► perception that that sci-fi and fantasy [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► bring that you don't necessarily see ma [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► you know gritty mainstream reality based [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► story about a man who's got a bad job [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► and you know it's the escapism and I [TS]

00:31:16 ◼   ► guess does appeal to me whether I'm you [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► know whether I'm escaping my life or [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► just enjoying the day yeah said [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► blackberry no I think there's a there's [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► a nerd [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► there's entertainment value which [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► shouldn't be overlooked in the in the [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► sense of just something that's a good [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► story right you know it doesn't [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► necessarily have to be because it's you [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► know Escape mr. because it's requires [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► the sort of deep critical thinking there [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► are stories that just get you at a you [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► know a visceral level and are effective [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► in that they you know they wrap you up [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► there page-turners right and you know [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► sometimes those you can there's plenty [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► of those they get written that maybe [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► aren't very good but it's worth putting [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► you know it's worth pulling out the ones [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► that are and trying to figure out why [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► they succeed well these other ones you [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► know someone in the chatroom mentioned [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► Dan Brown before who is one of my most [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► loads writer once we do that is we all [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► agree once we do the damn brown episode [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► of being comfortable it's over [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► sharks shark has been John yeah pretty [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► much i can tell you why I hate dan [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► friend is diverging alcoholic [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► although he did write the word sentence [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► ever constructed in english language but [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► that said I think it's actually there is [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► worth I'm not Dan Brown quickly but [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► there is that thing is we get you know [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► there's is the generalization you get [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► you get irritated when you read stuff in [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► the genre that is bad and down is well [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► praise like feed because you think oh [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► this is what everybody thinks is what [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► every reads with costco has in the table [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► so when you say yeah I'm part of this [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► podcast and we talked about geeky things [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► and sci-fi fantasy books and comic books [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► and all this stuff and people are like [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► oh you know I picked up blah and it was [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► so blah i could never read a blog and [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► you're like that's that's what makes you [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► angry about it's not it's not just [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► aggressively bad which makes you angry [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► but it's also it spoils the the pot for [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► other for talking other people and [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► having them be interested as well [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► another thing that interests me about [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► feed is that there are people who liked [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► it which I know has a little facetious [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► but it's just you know yeah having read [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► it is an awful awful book empirically a [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► bad book but there are lots of people [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► who enjoy it and that is the the beauty [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► of you know I guess being a human right [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► everyone has different perceptions [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► everyone has different critical [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► requirements for what they're reading [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► and that makes it interesting to talk [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► about this stuff and get other people's [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► viewpoints and I was also going to say [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► that I think part of the joy of reading [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► good science fiction and good fantasy is [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► not the fact that anything that can [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► happen but things can happen that are [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► consistent with the rules of the story [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► you don't know necessarily what those [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► rules are when you're reading the story [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► or where you start the story but a good [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► constructed a sci-fi or fantasy story [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► will let the reader discover these rules [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► as things are happening and I think that [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► that is part of the reward of reading [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► finely crafted science fiction or [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► fantasy story or novel is that you get [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► you feel like you've accomplished [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► something because you figure out why [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► things happen and it's internally [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► consistent whereas if anything could [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► happen it's not very rewarding because [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► why does you know the the rabbit turn [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► into a dragon it doesn't matter because [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► anything can happen so who cares [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► well that's what you're taking about the [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► magician's is that I came to figuring [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► that was actually pretty good because it [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► was so well-reviewed people talked about [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► it a lot and I was really more [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► disappointed than I might have been [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► otherwise because it was so full of that [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► same thing like whenever needed a rule [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► it got pulled out you know it's oh well [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► this happens well great now we have this [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► and there's this strange [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► multi-dimensional being you know its [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► blood just it just felt very resultantly [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► and like the author couldn't even be [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► bothered to keep track of characters and [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► what they were doing and I just I don't [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► know what kind of offended when I hit [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► something like why do people like this [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► are they reading so it's not that you [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► shouldn't be for fun but if you're [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► reading so non critically you can't [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► recognize flaws that in other genres [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► would make a book unreadable then what's [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► going on I mean you could say that about [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► isaac asimov's rating at times that he [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► you know so much about plot and not [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► about [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► hey about dialogue got like some of this [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► stuff oh come on now is some of his work [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► is somewhat unreadable accept his plots [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► are so good and that changes are [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► different [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► don't criticize everything wrote [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► obviously I've read a large portion but [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► I'm but notice that notion that you know [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► the the space opera is so big we just [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► give up on the actual necessity of [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► writing well [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► I do love and author knows where he's [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► going in terms of you know the [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► world-building of science fiction is so [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► fantastic I in that almost every book [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► you pick up unless that's a series and [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► you're going through subsequent novels [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► you know it's an entirely new world you [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► may have some familiar characteristics [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► here and there but you have you know you [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► have this creation of the authors but i [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► love it when you can tell right off the [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► bat that the author knows exactly where [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► he's going [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► especially in series is when you track [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► back to the first book or reread things [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► and find details that don't show up name [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► maybe until the fourth or fifth book [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► that have been carefully hidden and [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► planted there was something I'm [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► amusingly there was something in harry [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► potter where i was reading a couple a [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► couple days ago from a blog where they [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► were comparing something from the fourth [TS]

00:36:28 ◼   ► or fifth book where Harry is having a [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► conversation with his aunt and uncle and [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► his aunt brings up the wizard prison as [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► cabanne and I Harry assumes that she [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► says that she's heard it from that boy [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► and Harry assumes that she's talking [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► about her father or his father and then [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► only I think in the last book in the [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► seventh book you find out that in fact [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► she was talking about over hearing it [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► from one other characters ever snape I [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► and you find that out through a [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► flashback but you don't necessarily [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► connect the two unless you read the book [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► it's like oh you actually had a specific [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► plan for saying that boy over you know a [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► specific name or something like like [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► it's it's a little detail in a wildly [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► popular you know what fantasy series but [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► it's that kind of idea of being able to [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► keep the balls in the air and being able [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► to paint a wild multifaceted picture of [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► you know the genre that you're working [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► in I think we all like to be rewarded as [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► readers or consumers of of media and [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► it's it's nice to feel like you know the [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► author or the Creator is putting as much [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► attention into it as we are [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► paying to it and so you don't have that [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► section i mean i-i think 22 Scott's [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► earlier point I think rules can be [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► narrow or broad depending on the the [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► world i thought you know is when you [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► start talking about that i thought about [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► Doctor Who and about how the the rules [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► there are are so tremendously broad [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► sometimes that a lot of stuff does get [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► by just because you know it's it's [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► equivalently magic [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► I mean but that's how that show operates [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► that's the parameters of that show but [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► we do all like to be rewarded in the [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► sense of thinking about you know we a we [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► give this much attention to something [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► like Star Wars and it's nice to see like [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► you know there are references that [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► foreshadow things or that's constructed [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► in such a way as to be internally [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► consistent and it bothers us when things [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► are not consistent right so that you [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► know there are things that are mentioned [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► in the the the only three star wars [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► movies that exist that are then in some [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► ways contradicted by three other movies [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► that were never made and that's annoying [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► because you feel like wow but you [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► already set up these these possibilities [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► and you set up this thread and then you [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► not only didn't carry through on it you [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► just sort of took a sharp left turn with [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► it and i think that there's there's a [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► lot of reason for why we like things [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► like I you know to pull out a couple of [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► my favorite examples examples neil [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► gaiman's sandman is a great example of a [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► large work that has numerous references [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► that work both forward and backwards in [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► terms of referencing things that haven't [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► happened yet or referencing things that [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► you've already been in much prior much [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► previous volumes and lois mcmaster [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► bujold foreclosing saga which we didn't [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► episode on where there are you know tips [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► of the hat to things that happened you [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► know ten books earlier or there are [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► references to things that will be [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► important in 10 books and so it's nice [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► to feel like there is this world that's [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► constructed that exists even when we're [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► not actively paying attention to it that [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► we can visit when we like and I think [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► that's probably some of the attraction [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► and other media as well like things like [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► multiplayer online games you know people [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► like this idea of being able to visit [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► another world and it helps if it's [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► constructed in such a way as to feel [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► well fleshed out and consistent it's [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► funny damn that you mentioned the [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► prequels because i was going to use the [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► the what calls well okay so we devoted [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► six episodes to talking about in great [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► detail all three star wars movies and I [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► i do think it tell it says something [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► about us that we devoted all that time [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► hours and hours and hours like nine [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► hours of running time to movies that [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► didn't run that long [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► quite honestly and yet we we haven't we [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► talked about it we joke about we haven't [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► done an episode about you know the [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► Phantom Menace right we be because what [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► would we say I mean it might be fun to [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► take its body and kick it around right i [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► mean i don't think there are good things [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► for us to say about it but they would be [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► so outweighed by us [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► it's too fraught with problems and to it [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► would be too much of a trashing that it [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► wouldn't be worth it and it also feels [TS]

00:40:46 ◼   ► like beating up you know beating up the [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► kid to take his lunch money because it's [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► like I mean it's not a challenge right [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► there are lots of criticisms you can [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► make all right i mean what would the [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► point be of us you know beating [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► something to death that we just I mean [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► I'm not sure that would be a pleasurable [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► episode to listen to ultimately if we're [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► done eating with anything that is not [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► what we do and more the point you know [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► there is a certain delight in giving [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► something a bad review but when these [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► things have existed for so long and are [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► so a vengeance i wanted yeah if not [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► unanimously then so generally disliked [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► then there's really very little new to [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► say about that other than I just like it [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► the only real way we could ever do an [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► actual podcast on the prequels with [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► beaded basically look at the very few [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► things that the prequels got right and [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► also to improve upon like basically what [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► would make the prequels a good movie or [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► something you know we but you can't just [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► do I know it's really hard to think [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► about but the the point that I'm trying [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► to make is that you can't just do an [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► entirely negative episode that's just [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► going to throw heaping you know keeping [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► insults after keeping insults on to this [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► poor set of movies because i mean it's [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► it's like teasing you know the picked on [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► kid in the class [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► he's got enough already there's no point [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► but it seems like there's a point only [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► when you're trying to warn people off [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► something so when people asked your [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► opinion she heard about this book called [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► Fedor the magicians are ready player one [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► or [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► any of the other ones like that and we [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► did you say all yeah well you know I [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► read it didn't like it we did a podcast [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► on it if you want to know more about it [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► there's some spoilers but you're [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► thinking about getting it you're trying [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► to keep people from wasting their time [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► the time is the questions commodity and [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► but you know if everyone knows about it [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► already if everyone already hates the [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► putative prequels or what you know the [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► books are in question or the comic books [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► whatever it is then what's the right way [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► yeah piling on I would prefer to do [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► episodes recommending things that I [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► loved rather than hating on things that [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► I didn't unless it's unless it's [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► something horrible like 50 shades of [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► grey or something or it's like it's a [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► wildly Lauda duh book that everybody [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► should read no no one should read this [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► book like I can understand being the you [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► know the bearer of bad news in that [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► situation but otherwise if we're talking [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► about more obscure literature and [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► television and movies I'd rather just [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► focus on the things that are fantastic [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► and not spend waste so much energy [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► trashing the things that aren't yet [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► we're never going to stop people from [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► buying fifty shades of grey or george RR [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► martin or whatever we've tried to if we [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► were trying to prevent people from [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► buying that we're never gonna do that [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► we're too tiny for that but we can tell [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► people about things that are good and [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► help [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► I mean this is the whole point i'm used [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► to be when independent bookstores were [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► thriving and perhaps they will not be [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► totally going in the future in some [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► crazy way that there's this thing that's [TS]

00:43:37 ◼   ► still around called hand selling where [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► there'd be thousands and thousands of [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► independent book stores across the [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► country and authors with tour and be [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► making contacts with you know all the [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► people at the stores and trying to [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► convince them of the work their book and [TS]

00:43:51 ◼   ► sometimes books were discovered this way [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► by individual clerks or managers and [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► stores and thousands of places selling [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► it and I feel like at some level that's [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► a rule we're trying to fill as we don't [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► have an enormous listenership but we're [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► trying to help especially the more [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► obscure stuff find an audience and maybe [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► engaged some of the word of mouth [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► weekend about and make some you know [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► great stuff a slightly bigger and [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► therefore produce more great stuff I [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► think those are the two best things that [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► we can do on a podcast like this is is [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► highlight things that you may not have [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► heard of that we think are really great [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► and talk about things that that are [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► generally held to be really great in [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► sort of loving detail and being able to [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► take them apart and explain why we like [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► them and the quirks we find about the [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► main those are my two favorite sort of [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► things that we do here are those two [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► John siracusa you have many many points [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► to make about this discussion life I [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► suspect [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► yes this go back to many things that [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► have been mentioned by other people i [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► think i'll start with a damn was talking [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► about in the beginning so when we [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► actually get back to the indian taco [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► thing we enjoy something or when we [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► don't enjoy it like you see a movie you [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► read a book and you would like to you [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► don't everybody has that feeling you can [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► ask anybody on the street do you know [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► you saw the movie did you like it yes [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► now so easy to give your opinion right [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► eye and the the question the follow-up [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► question that almost no one asks is why [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► I and why you didn't like it is usually [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► you know they'll let me tell you I [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► didn't like this was stupid i like that [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► or whatever but like you know but just [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► kind of generality same thing with joy [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► was exciting was fun i laughed you know [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► I cried whatever eat it sort of vague [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► generalities of why you liked or didn't [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► like something but figuring out why you [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► do or don't like something is something [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► is that quality like the desire to say [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► to examine and say why did I like that [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► why did it like that is not it [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► a common trait i find maybe it's Deacon [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► on geek maybe just a circle traveling [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► now part of it is like learning about [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► the craft if you're interested in movies [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► or filmmaking or writing you want to [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► learn about you know that the art of [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► doing in the craft and how did they make [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► that movie and why is this good and [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► that's bad and you know and and learning [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► how and and what Dan said before [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► learning how things tick if you're a [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► geek you're an engineer or somebody [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► likes to take things apart you want to [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► know how they work on the inside and [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► I'll get back to that in a second but [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► the other part of this is that asking [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► yourself especially if for things that [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► you enjoy is why did you like it or [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► didn't like it [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► part of it is also kind of like [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► self-discovery because you have to [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► examine yourself and say why did I like [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► that and not yet and not all people like [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► that the journey of self-discovery is [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► not appealing to a lot of people it's [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► kind of like it you know the the [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► unexamined life that the unexamined life [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► this is repellent to a certain kind of [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► person but to other people the examined [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► life is it you know scary or [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► inappropriate [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► you're not interesting because you have [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► to think like I just go to see some [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► movie and it's like you know I i go to [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► see like an Adam Sandler movie and I [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► really really like it [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► few people who really really love and [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► adam sandler we are going back and [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► taking realty passaic why did I like [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► that because sometimes you do you know [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► you may not like the answer since the [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► troop star wars star trek any movie that [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► you think it most people don't think [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► about what they like I liked it made me [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► happy i smile and that sets [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► self-examination that urge to like [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► self-analyze is not common and is [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► uncomfortable to a lot of people that's [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► one of the things i wrote about the blog [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► post is like the guy who comes back from [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► moving says they don't like it they just [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► go out stupid and it's like is that was [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► that how you left it in your brain like [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► do you do you really know why you didn't [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► like it or do you not know why you [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► didn't like I think most people don't [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► know either like stuff don't know why [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► they don't like stuff and I'm one of [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► those people to whom that idea of not [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► knowing why you like something why [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► didn't like something independent of [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► like the aircraft of it is is a is [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► strange me and so John um I this happens [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► to me and I want to see if this happens [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► to you when the movies over and you're [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► walking outside the theater and you've [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► gone to the movie with somebody whether [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► it's your family or friends or something [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► I turn to you and say so what do you [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► think of it do you answer them [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► I and by that point already written a [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► review on my head haha well because I I [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► like I I don't even want to say i don't [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► want to say yet because I'm still [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► thinking about the night oh yeah it's [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► alright it involves yeah I have that [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► problem is i go to there's at least one [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► of my friends who I go to movies with [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► and I've been to the gyno I've known for [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► 20 years right we've got countless [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► movies together i think i remember him [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► liking like three movies every always [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► comes out of it with a you'd like [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► Johnny's got that immediately form like [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► what are the things i don't get why this [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► happened I don't get what they said was [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► this point was the point of that you [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► know and and me I'm still like reveling [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► in the I just you know it was fun i just [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► watched a movie 42 a firts I've really [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► had a chance to think about it yet but [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► the problem with that to a certain [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► extent is it's good and it shows a [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► critical mind but it's also really it [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► kinda takes the wind out of you if [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► you're like well that seems fun [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► I guess I kinda liked it but I'm really [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► chance think about it and then all of a [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► sudden I'm garage with this entire like [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► wrote of criticism where it's like well [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► now i feel dumb if I'm not thinking [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► about anything or even figure out why [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► you liked it but i see i would argue [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► that I actually try to cultivate a [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► detachment from a critical thinking one [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► engaged in a work of art because that [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► you know you can i'm not going there is [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► a critic i'm going to review the movie [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► i'm going there for entertainment I know [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► that John critical response the things [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► is your entertainment but for me I like [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► to be it's true but it's I like to you [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► know what I saw brave recently sending [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► some discussion on the uncomfortable [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► lifts with anne frank's about this is i [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► quite like break because it engage me in [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► a certain level it turned off some my [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► critical thought and I just washed [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► through the hundred minutes of it came [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► out the other when I had a really good [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► time and now of course i'm picking apart [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► parts and things that are weak and [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► whatever but later and I don't lose that [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► sense of at the time I was watching it [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► the memory of enjoying it at that time [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► and if I'm engaged in critical function [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► for something like that where it's [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► impossible become engaged are some [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► things that is so bad that you're going [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► to be broken out of the moment and do it [TS]

00:49:43 ◼   ► but i think the point of a work of art [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► of any kind of work of art is that [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► engages you to a point in which the you [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► are allowed to forgive yourself [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► critical thinking because of the [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► engagement of the medium I don't know if [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► I'm capable of that [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► well i'm not saying like during the [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► thing you should be engaged in that [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► although that can happen for various [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► reasons but it's it's kind of different [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► things like that so it's good and it's [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► we have seen your wedding because [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► emotions emotions involved in it you [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► gotta be swept away like things [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► sometimes to the people who are on the [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► show and the people who enjoy the show [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► I would imagine fall under the category [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► of people for whom the enjoyment of art [TS]

00:50:19 ◼   ► is enhanced by later discussion of it is [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► always there are many many people who [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► like it or dislike it [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► do not want to examine why it was good [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► why was bad why they like that why they [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► didn't like it because by examining it [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► there listening in the experience but we [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► I think are not like that i think we [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► want to if we like it or didn't like it [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► was talking about but either side of [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► those things enhances the experience [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► like i enjoy movies more the more I [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► discussing we've talked to death about [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► Star Wars and art all those discussions [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► enhance my enjoyment of Star Wars do not [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► decrease it do not less than it and some [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► people think like oh if you're picking [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► it apart you're analyzing it again [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► good or bad analyzing why you like it [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► analyzing what you don't like it you're [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► somehow lessening the experience and now [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► now that you understand it is less [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► interesting or mystical you've ruined it [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► strong management you're stronger than [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► me because I'm making a difference [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► between the be during the moment of the [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► appreciation not the the section later [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► or doing critical thinking later i'm [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► saying that a good work can bring you in [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► especially when the universe was created [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► I know but if that's what you think [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► about later [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► howard got you i agree with both of you [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► I think there's just I think that's just [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► for me as a DB thought I was trying to [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► express was that being bras with [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► opinions before I've had a chance to [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► form my own can be off-putting because [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► then those thoughts are permanently in [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► my head and it's hard to form my own [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► opinion [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► well now you may have been great segue [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► to my second metal point yes yes i do [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► the John services which is all of us [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► here are on a podcast and we're talking [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► about that you know things we like or [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► don't like [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► and part of it you have to say is hubris [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► like where we're a bunch of people who [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► happen to be in our various professions [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► like or side professions whatever [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► writers other creative people who think [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► that what we have to say about something [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► is worth hearing like you know you're [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► bright words and they go on a website [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► for thousands of people to look at and [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► we do a podcast and people no matter [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► what gives [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► who cares what we think we just you know [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► it you have to have that little spark of [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► yeah what I have to say about this is [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► important and meaningful woman what then [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► was saying when you get a bunch of other [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► opinions and they you know they kind of [TS]

00:52:18 ◼   ► like color the way you view things if [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► their pains from people you don't care [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► about they don't bother you and the more [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► sort of confidence and faith you have in [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► your own opinion as compared to the [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► person giving them or whatever like the [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► sunbed reviewing usat do you like you [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► dismiss that whatever if someone who [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► really like a friend of yours whose [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► opinion you really expect gives gives [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► you a bad opinion that is more difficult [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► to to repel against but all of us I [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► think have something in us that makes us [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► think the things we have to say these [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► insights we have about things we like [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► again good or bad are worth sharing with [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► other people because they're like a yeah [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► you know maybe other people thought of [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► that but I thought of it and i think [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► that's worth sharing and here we all are [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► doing that I think it's a big part of [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► the show is that it's some small part of [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► every single one of us thinks what do we [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► have to say about this stuff is is worth [TS]

00:53:02 ◼   ► doing and the final aspect that about [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► learning how things tick is that this [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► probably also a small part of our [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► sometimes a really big part of us are [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► actual real-life part of us thinks I [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► want to learn how this works and why I [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► enjoyed it and why I didn't and what I [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► have to say about is important because [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► someday I might [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► do that maybe i'm going to write a book [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► maybe I'll write five books maybe I'll [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► write a whole book in a month maybe I'll [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► be a movie maker make you know what i [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► mean and figuring out how you know are [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► in general or specific media markets [TS]

00:53:28 ◼   ► part of that I don't think it's a [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► coincidence they're all a bunch of like [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► writers here or half writers or whatever [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► talking about movies i've always been [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► fascinated with I don't know if I ever [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► have intended well or at least since I [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► was a kid of intent of like being a [TS]

00:53:41 ◼   ► screenwriter and all that but I've [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► always been fascinated with how how it [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► works [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► yeah so I agree with that completely i [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► I've always been interested in how it [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► works and why it works and how it makes [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► me feel and yes it's not that we're all [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► people who who write things that lots of [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► other people read and obviously that [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► there's something in there to that we're [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► sort of used to doing that although [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► quite honestly you know I love having a [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► creating a thing that goes out there [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► that people like and that it has [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► interesting perspectives from people who [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► aren't me on it which is all of you [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► there's a deep bench issue to which is [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► like that last episode episode 99 [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► uncomfortable in which we did the the [TS]

00:54:19 ◼   ► sci-fi novel draft essentially like what [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► should we do we how many books was a 40 [TS]

00:54:23 ◼   ► you said Jason and at least at least and [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► you know in many of us have read i went [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► through i think i may have read not as [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► many as anybody else whatever dozens of [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► those and you know it's it's partly [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► there is hubris of course I like doing [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► this and to be honest if we're just us [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► and we had no listeners i would probably [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► still enjoy this it might be a little [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► strange for us to do it in that [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► circumstance but I wouldn't have to edit [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► the podcast then if there was a letter [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► through you would still edit chases and [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► we do when we're in you know in [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► geographically proximate areas i feel [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► that was really good why whatever i've [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► met almost all of you wait all of you [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► have met all of you not that but the the [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► point though is that it's um is that [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► there is an expertise we bring this [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► there's a humorous of you know we do [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► like to talk and have people listen to [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► us because we've been conditioned to [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► that by having hundreds of thousands or [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► millions of people read our stuff over [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► you know over years so you get a little [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► bit of a hey Matt we have something that [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► whatever but the other arm the other [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► part of that is that i would say most [TS]

00:55:21 ◼   ► ocean say most people listen to the [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► Sharks we don't know that but i would [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► say a lot of people don't have the time [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► to read all this if they've read [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► everything we've read on [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► sure let this is the podcast except to [TS]

00:55:32 ◼   ► give feedback or to contrast the [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► experience against ours which is [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► interesting i listen to podcast so much [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► you know discussions of things that [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► people have rather seen that i also have [TS]

00:55:41 ◼   ► but i think it's an issue of something [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► like you know allegory or illusion [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► likewise illusion interesting i remember [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► watching lord of the rings the first [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► movie when it came out and watching a [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► fellowship of the rings and thinking God [TS]

00:55:53 ◼   ► how they got it so much right and how [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► they're even details from other books [TS]

00:55:57 ◼   ► from the silmarillion other things you [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► can read all the paraphernalia an [TS]

00:56:00 ◼   ► apocryphal but everything that Tolkien [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► written in the forgotten and whatever [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► you know so I read everything and just [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► little slices here and there and I [TS]

00:56:07 ◼   ► thought oh this feels Richard to me than [TS]

00:56:10 ◼   ► someone who didn't have that because [TS]

00:56:11 ◼   ► they put all this into me to build the [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► characterization build the world up it [TS]

00:56:15 ◼   ► doesn't mean someone who didn't get all [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► the illusion doesn't get the full just [TS]

00:56:19 ◼   ► of it but there is something that they [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► did for me and I feel like that's part [TS]

00:56:22 ◼   ► of why we do the show is that we have a [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► deep bench and we're trying to talk to [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► people who maybe haven't read you know [TS]

00:56:30 ◼   ► the thousand science-fiction novels or [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► haven't had the time to read a [TS]

00:56:33 ◼   ► particular water see a particular series [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► were sort of both the pilot fish and the [TS]

00:56:37 ◼   ► you know ancient mirror haha wow video [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► there's no subtitle it blew me away [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► there if you if you had ancient mariner [TS]

00:56:45 ◼   ► and dot on your bingo board place to go [TS]

00:56:47 ◼   ► and letting go [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► haha so so as we go deep into the night [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► here and it should probably finish at [TS]

00:56:55 ◼   ► some point I wanted to go around and ask [TS]

00:56:58 ◼   ► everybody if they've got a favorite and [TS]

00:56:59 ◼   ► or at least favorite memory of the [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► incomparable that since this is our last [TS]

00:57:04 ◼   ► episode no no it's our anniversary [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► episode already called well do you have [TS]

00:57:09 ◼   ► a favorite or at least favorite the team [TS]

00:57:11 ◼   ► when we all pitched our own fictional ah [TS]

00:57:14 ◼   ► shall proceed to make your pitches with [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► the TV show character draft [TS]