PodSearch

The Incomparable

124: Hobbit Hanukkah

 

00:00:00   speak to us an Elvish clan O'Sullivan [TS]

00:00:03   pen and Muriel oh dear algebra haha we [TS]

00:00:07   did it away that's going on [TS]

00:00:10   the incontrovertible number 124 Johnny [TS]

00:00:17   week 2013 welcome back to the [TS]

00:00:20   incomparable podcast I'm your host Jason [TS]

00:00:22   Snell and tonight's topic is going to be [TS]

00:00:24   a series of movies based on a series of [TS]

00:00:28   books or depending on how you want to [TS]

00:00:29   view it moved a really really really [TS]

00:00:31   really really long movie released in [TS]

00:00:33   parts based on a book that was really [TS]

00:00:35   long and also released in parts [TS]

00:00:37   yes we're going to talk about the lord [TS]

00:00:39   of the rings and although we may touch [TS]

00:00:41   on the book here and there this is not [TS]

00:00:43   an episode about the book so much as it [TS]

00:00:45   is an episode about the movies I suppose [TS]

00:00:47   we can reserve the JRR Tolkien's books [TS]

00:00:50   for for a different podcast a different [TS]

00:00:52   episode in like 20 18 but in the [TS]

00:00:56   meantime we're going to talk about the [TS]

00:00:57   movies I do have my thousand-page got a [TS]

00:00:59   single volume bound paperback copy of [TS]

00:01:02   Lord of the Rings here so that i can [TS]

00:01:05   read the songs of tom bombadil from it [TS]

00:01:08   and sing some elvish later but before we [TS]

00:01:12   get to that i'd like to introduce my [TS]

00:01:13   guests who are joining me on this [TS]

00:01:14   journey that may take about 11 hours to [TS]

00:01:17   complete my first my first member of our [TS]

00:01:22   little fellowship tonight is Glenn [TS]

00:01:24   fleischmann hi glenn miller Lauren [TS]

00:01:26   watermelon [TS]

00:01:29   oh hello it's good to hear from you [TS]

00:01:33   although i don't understand what the [TS]

00:01:34   heck you're talking about you so you've [TS]

00:01:36   watched the movies that make any sense [TS]

00:01:38   no I'm with a glad to read the books yes [TS]

00:01:41   I think your frogs and like speak friend [TS]

00:01:44   and answer i don't speak elvish Glenn [TS]

00:01:46   it's a foreign language I don't speak [TS]

00:01:48   foreign languages besides which I was [TS]

00:01:51   too busy worrying about the monster that [TS]

00:01:53   was obviously in the pool but we'll get [TS]

00:01:54   to that [TS]

00:01:55   also on my fellowship although i'm [TS]

00:01:57   suspicious heaps in the ring he may be [TS]

00:01:59   after its indian taco hi Andy [TS]

00:02:01   well i watch the movie and that didn't [TS]

00:02:04   make any sense and i'm referring to the [TS]

00:02:06   movies and not what Glenn had said [TS]

00:02:08   fair enough either way really thank you [TS]

00:02:11   for you for making me for making me [TS]

00:02:13   watch like all 10 hours again which I [TS]

00:02:14   legitimately was a good thing because [TS]

00:02:16   I'd rather actually much much of these [TS]

00:02:19   DVD sets that never actually watched [TS]

00:02:21   because I've never actually [TS]

00:02:23   I i went bought the first movie I got [TS]

00:02:25   through the whole thing i bought the [TS]

00:02:27   second movie and I got through about [TS]

00:02:28   half of it and just never got around to [TS]

00:02:30   the rest of it but the third movie kind [TS]

00:02:33   of started it and zip to the ending I [TS]

00:02:35   wanted to see that part where where [TS]

00:02:37   where it go with your photo has to go [TS]

00:02:40   away and I have to cry because the girl [TS]

00:02:43   from the original mix of Angel of any [TS]

00:02:44   Lennox is starting to sing on me cry but [TS]

00:02:46   I this is the first time I've actually [TS]

00:02:48   sat down and watched all three of these [TS]

00:02:50   movies so this was a good i didn't make [TS]

00:02:52   the reason you you volunteered you knew [TS]

00:02:54   the job was dangerous when you took it [TS]

00:02:56   you were the enzyme to the latticed [TS]

00:02:59   protein of Lord of the Rings viewership [TS]

00:03:01   alright i'll accept that that's what [TS]

00:03:03   character but you know I'm i believe in [TS]

00:03:06   free will also joining me on this [TS]

00:03:09   Fellowship is my my my good friend from [TS]

00:03:14   the Shire who likes to keep me company [TS]

00:03:16   and occasionally polish my shoes it [TS]

00:03:18   stand more in hi Dan [TS]

00:03:20   no sorry mr. Jason give me some fried up [TS]

00:03:24   some rabbit [TS]

00:03:25   ok with some cojones we're going to make [TS]

00:03:28   it to the end of this podcast uh well I [TS]

00:03:31   was that way to a stupid voice and yet [TS]

00:03:32   and yet there don't want anyways there [TS]

00:03:34   it is [TS]

00:03:35   blame you this part guess we'll all will [TS]

00:03:38   all be be dead by the end of this [TS]

00:03:40   podcast and is there is there anybody I [TS]

00:03:44   have a field is why is it is the most [TS]

00:03:46   important member of the fellowship he's [TS]

00:03:49   our gray wizard it's john siracusa i [TS]

00:03:53   think i am at all so i guess that [TS]

00:03:54   qualifies for the hand that gives make [TS]

00:03:56   sure I'd it does the point yet like Andy [TS]

00:03:59   I think this is the first time I cracked [TS]

00:04:01   open the super duper extra long bladder [TS]

00:04:03   Buster edition of these movies that i [TS]

00:04:05   have on blu-ray and went through the [TS]

00:04:08   mall so uh how can I help it was worth [TS]

00:04:10   it and I watch them all in one day is my [TS]

00:04:13   third or fourth time watching the [TS]

00:04:15   extended ones you definitely wearing [TS]

00:04:17   your astronaut underwear for to get [TS]

00:04:18   through these movies are you get his [TS]

00:04:19   paws one of the other I guess before we [TS]

00:04:22   get into the the details of the movies i [TS]

00:04:24   wanted to go around and ask everybody [TS]

00:04:26   what their what their experience [TS]

00:04:28   watching them was and we touched on a [TS]

00:04:30   little bit right here which is you did [TS]

00:04:32   you see him [TS]

00:04:32   did you see them in the movie theater [TS]

00:04:35   have you watched them on video [TS]

00:04:36   obviously there are these extended [TS]

00:04:38   editions that are available on video as [TS]

00:04:40   well as the theatrical edition so there [TS]

00:04:41   are lots of different ways you can you [TS]

00:04:43   can view these movies and given how long [TS]

00:04:45   they are do you watch them across a few [TS]

00:04:48   days three days six days something like [TS]

00:04:51   that or where do you put in the [TS]

00:04:53   astronaut underwear and just get it all [TS]

00:04:55   done get er done [TS]

00:04:56   I Glenn what about you well I saw the [TS]

00:05:00   original releases in the movies theaters [TS]

00:05:02   is and be steelers expression is already [TS]

00:05:06   planning services and then when the [TS]

00:05:11   extended versions came out I got those [TS]

00:05:13   immediately because I'd I got the [TS]

00:05:15   fellowship first and i thought that even [TS]

00:05:19   the movies in theaters were pretty long [TS]

00:05:20   to begin with I actually didn't think [TS]

00:05:22   there were extra dimensions that made [TS]

00:05:24   the sort of interminable battle scenes [TS]

00:05:27   in some of the films and the walking and [TS]

00:05:29   so forth more bearable because it was [TS]

00:05:31   more of the mythology and more salty [TS]

00:05:34   that they put back in so I've watched i [TS]

00:05:37   have three extended editions in indy [TS]

00:05:41   deform and watch those several times i [TS]

00:05:43   think at least i think the most recent [TS]

00:05:45   watches maybe the third or fourth time [TS]

00:05:48   I've watched them and made a lot more [TS]

00:05:50   fast-forwarding this time around I [TS]

00:05:52   haven't previously yeah it was it was a [TS]

00:05:55   tough one for me I think that [TS]

00:05:56   psychologically would've been better if [TS]

00:05:58   it had been set up like Game of Thrones [TS]

00:05:59   where they if they had cut the movie [TS]

00:06:02   into like hour-long episodes where [TS]

00:06:04   mentally you know that you don't have to [TS]

00:06:07   keep your brain cpu overclock following [TS]

00:06:10   all these pull all the plot and all [TS]

00:06:12   these characters all these locations [TS]

00:06:13   because at the end of one hour there's [TS]

00:06:16   going to be a break at the end that's [TS]

00:06:18   when there's going to be sort of a [TS]

00:06:19   natural bounce recap at the beginning [TS]

00:06:22   it's not in the previous episode of The [TS]

00:06:24   Lord of the Rings is going to be going [TS]

00:06:26   to accept that they did just like in [TS]

00:06:28   boardwalk empire they always start the [TS]

00:06:30   depth and the episode with an old-timey [TS]

00:06:32   1920 song montage of like here's where [TS]

00:06:35   we are right now here's what's going on [TS]

00:06:36   in Chicago and here's what's going on in [TS]

00:06:38   New York City [TS]

00:06:39   ok i remember that's the Rothstein guy [TS]

00:06:41   he's going to he's going to try to get [TS]

00:06:43   into the heroin business good about that [TS]

00:06:45   and I'm situated and nowhere [TS]

00:06:46   where I am it is even when you're [TS]

00:06:48   sitting at home and you're trying to get [TS]

00:06:50   through these movies there's like oh [TS]

00:06:52   another really really dark place filled [TS]

00:06:55   with really grimy looking people who are [TS]

00:06:57   turning on each other [TS]

00:06:59   okay well only way through it is through [TS]

00:07:03   it let's do it [TS]

00:07:04   I i did see all the movies in the [TS]

00:07:05   theater first I I just it'sit's set [TS]

00:07:10   there's such as a mental marathon isn't [TS]

00:07:13   it because I i never i have the exact [TS]

00:07:15   same problem when i read the books as a [TS]

00:07:17   kid I read the hobbit love the hobbit [TS]

00:07:19   and so the next thing is oh my god I'm [TS]

00:07:21   gonna get this three-volume slipcase [TS]

00:07:22   version of this either the the next move [TS]

00:07:25   the books in the series and I think I [TS]

00:07:27   got most of the way through the first [TS]

00:07:29   one and it's like it's like in many [TS]

00:07:32   cases it's like walking through thick [TS]

00:07:34   mud you can do it but after you kill [TS]

00:07:36   your initial momentum [TS]

00:07:38   it's just lift the leg move it forward [TS]

00:07:40   planted down lift the other leg move it [TS]

00:07:42   forward planted down and I just never [TS]

00:07:45   got that sort of momentum going in the [TS]

00:07:46   books and with the movies [TS]

00:07:48   it's kind of the same way we're just my [TS]

00:07:50   brain cannot keep track of all these [TS]

00:07:52   things that are going on and why who has [TS]

00:07:55   the football in the in this movie who [TS]

00:07:56   had is it supposedly about just the ring [TS]

00:07:59   that has to get back and you gotta slam [TS]

00:08:00   dunk it into the into the volcano the [TS]

00:08:03   lava but why are we seeing these other [TS]

00:08:06   things and who what's what what pieces [TS]

00:08:08   are being subtle and fitting together i [TS]

00:08:10   did enjoy it but man I really you really [TS]

00:08:13   have to focus and work on this to keep [TS]

00:08:15   the brain moving to make sure you can [TS]

00:08:17   follow these things that's what I was a [TS]

00:08:18   little bit tough for me for there's a [TS]

00:08:20   lot going on here and I i want to see [TS]

00:08:22   how everybody else is also viewed these [TS]

00:08:24   i'll say that I do wonder if you [TS]

00:08:28   mentioned Andy the idea of a if this was [TS]

00:08:30   an HBO series instead of a a bunch of [TS]

00:08:33   long movies i don't know i was on the [TS]

00:08:37   theater the first time since then only [TS]

00:08:38   on video only the extended edition and [TS]

00:08:41   we do the extended edition the movies [TS]

00:08:44   are so long that they're broken up [TS]

00:08:45   across discs so there are six discs for [TS]

00:08:48   all of lord of the rings and for the [TS]

00:08:52   first time this year my my kids watch [TS]

00:08:53   with us but previously my wife and I [TS]

00:08:55   would watch it [TS]

00:08:56   not necessarily every year at the end of [TS]

00:08:58   the year during the holidays but almost [TS]

00:09:00   just almost and we watching across six [TS]

00:09:02   nights which i like to call Hobbit [TS]

00:09:04   Hanukkah 266 night celebration and you [TS]

00:09:08   know what [TS]

00:09:09   in six hour and a half ish installments [TS]

00:09:13   it I it really works for me I I it's [TS]

00:09:16   enough but not so much that I feel like [TS]

00:09:20   it's slog and if i watch them over the [TS]

00:09:22   course of six nights or seven or eight [TS]

00:09:24   nights but not one a week or something [TS]

00:09:27   like that I can keep the story straight [TS]

00:09:29   and I know where we were when we left [TS]

00:09:30   off and it works it's the only movie [TS]

00:09:34   that I do like that but it [TS]

00:09:36   I don't think I could bear to watch it [TS]

00:09:39   in one sitting but as a miniseries [TS]

00:09:41   essentially a six-night miniseries I it [TS]

00:09:44   it works for me i would ask dan and and [TS]

00:09:47   John but there are you know what they're [TS]

00:09:49   viewing methodology was Fitz crazy crazy [TS]

00:09:54   work Dan well the first time I saw them [TS]

00:09:57   each in the amphitheater and before the [TS]

00:09:59   return of the king theatrical showing at [TS]

00:10:01   the time I was working in IT so I [TS]

00:10:04   borrowed a projector from work and we [TS]

00:10:06   marathons the first two before going to [TS]

00:10:09   an evening showing of return of the king [TS]

00:10:11   and in between then i think maybe I've [TS]

00:10:14   seen the extended editions once in the [TS]

00:10:16   interviewing almost I guess decade now [TS]

00:10:19   yeah so this was the first time I'd [TS]

00:10:21   watch them in a really long time and [TS]

00:10:23   watch them all on different nights so [TS]

00:10:26   split them up one movie / night over [TS]

00:10:29   three nights but it was over the course [TS]

00:10:30   of a couple I we watched the first two [TS]

00:10:31   pretty close together and then the third [TS]

00:10:33   one I kept having to put off due to [TS]

00:10:35   scheduling stuff but just just finished [TS]

00:10:38   it before right before this podcast [TS]

00:10:39   started recording remember did some [TS]

00:10:42   theater show like I think in seattle [TS]

00:10:45   someone showed me cinerama the great [TS]

00:10:48   restored theater like the entire [TS]

00:10:50   extended thing as a one-day deal with [TS]

00:10:53   breaks like I don't know what you paid [TS]

00:10:55   for to see it but like the entire thing [TS]

00:10:56   in one you know 12 hour session when I [TS]

00:10:59   would that wouldn't surprise me I mean I [TS]

00:11:00   feel like there's plenty of places that [TS]

00:11:02   would that would likely do something [TS]

00:11:03   like that yeah I can't even imagine what [TS]

00:11:06   the young people do that people do the [TS]

00:11:07   they did that for the dark knight right [TS]

00:11:10   where they did the dated batman begins [TS]

00:11:11   and dark knight returns and dark knight [TS]

00:11:12   rises in a [TS]

00:11:13   one day i just-i can't-- that's a lot [TS]

00:11:16   that day [TS]

00:11:17   that's good horse or cow yeah yeah I'm [TS]

00:11:20   sure does [TS]

00:11:21   John what about you what's your viewing [TS]

00:11:23   method for this for this thing but I saw [TS]

00:11:25   them originally in the theater you know [TS]

00:11:27   when they're right first run and I have [TS]

00:11:29   the extended DVDs which I watched once i [TS]

00:11:32   believe and then I had the extended blu [TS]

00:11:34   rays which I've now watch once I cheated [TS]

00:11:35   as I usually do by using my children [TS]

00:11:37   because i had showed them the [TS]

00:11:40   rankin/bass a hobbit cartoon because I [TS]

00:11:44   figured it wasn't too scary [TS]

00:11:45   sure I'm just you know just to get them [TS]

00:11:47   into I i have that i have a certain [TS]

00:11:49   fondness for that carter and i will say [TS]

00:11:50   that the only thing I remember about [TS]

00:11:52   that entire thing is is is that the one [TS]

00:11:55   with the song they're all with the side [TS]

00:11:57   is the photo of the nine fingers had the [TS]

00:12:02   ring of do that's better that's [TS]

00:12:05   backsheet that's the lord of the rings [TS]

00:12:07   one sometime Republican all right over [TS]

00:12:09   the ranked battles are brutal [TS]

00:12:11   alright okay we blown our photo of the [TS]

00:12:13   nine fingers way too early then I didn't [TS]

00:12:15   show the ones with the road scoping the [TS]

00:12:16   creepy room scooping up but yes I [TS]

00:12:18   shouldn't have to get them into it and [TS]

00:12:20   then I tried showing my son fellowship a [TS]

00:12:23   while back but it was the once the race [TS]

00:12:25   came on so it's two squares as many [TS]

00:12:27   years ago so that I try to get now it's [TS]

00:12:29   bluray and he liked it and so I watch [TS]

00:12:31   all then with him and it was broken up [TS]

00:12:33   by his bedtime basically because we [TS]

00:12:35   would watch and then you have to go to [TS]

00:12:36   bed and then the next day we watch a [TS]

00:12:38   little more than you have to go to bed [TS]

00:12:39   and I don't know how many days it took [TS]

00:12:40   us because we weren't even completing [TS]

00:12:42   like old disks or have to school just [TS]

00:12:43   like a little bit of time between well [TS]

00:12:45   that's like a hobbit ramadan it just [TS]

00:12:48   lets it out it went on many many days [TS]

00:12:50   but at a certain but he really wanted to [TS]

00:12:52   know how the story ended so he was [TS]

00:12:54   always like we got can watch more that [TS]

00:12:56   could watch for that movie and he had no [TS]

00:12:57   conception over like how many movies it [TS]

00:13:00   was or how many discs to eat he thought [TS]

00:13:01   it was just one big long movie I told [TS]

00:13:03   know it's like six discs like oh alright [TS]

00:13:05   well as the more can watch more so he [TS]

00:13:08   found engage anyway that's how i watch [TS]

00:13:09   it the third time I guess so [TS]

00:13:11   in the theater once and then DVD and [TS]

00:13:13   blu-ray blu-ray installment plan with [TS]

00:13:16   your son never enough and that and that [TS]

00:13:18   really does make it more enjoyable you [TS]

00:13:20   know you're watching with somebody who [TS]

00:13:21   actually did the hard ends right and it [TS]

00:13:23   yeah engage all got so watching with [TS]

00:13:25   with my kids this time [TS]

00:13:27   uh they well they like when when gandalf [TS]

00:13:32   plunges off the off the bridge [TS]

00:13:34   yes it was very very unexpected to if [TS]

00:13:36   they're yes they're quite upset and I'm [TS]

00:13:38   I'm sorry bro this is great I've i'm [TS]

00:13:40   watching it work right i'm watching I'm [TS]

00:13:42   watching their that you know because [TS]

00:13:44   they thought that was it for him [TS]

00:13:45   apple Sam again yeah that's well that's [TS]

00:13:47   that's really powerful i mean i remember [TS]

00:13:49   i do recall i actually did watch [TS]

00:13:50   fellowship of the ring with a my cousins [TS]

00:13:52   and their daughters who are kind of you [TS]

00:13:54   know probably around 10 or 11 at the [TS]

00:13:56   time and I remember their visceral [TS]

00:14:00   reaction at the end of fellowship when [TS]

00:14:01   Boromir gets shot which is a great scene [TS]

00:14:04   is really dramatically and they were [TS]

00:14:05   like physically like you know shock yes [TS]

00:14:08   they were twitching like oh my god you [TS]

00:14:10   know because they did it does do a good [TS]

00:14:12   job of building those you know it does a [TS]

00:14:15   good job of painting those characters [TS]

00:14:16   and they feel you know they really like [TS]

00:14:18   them i think yeah although my kids said [TS]

00:14:20   that they they didn't like Boromir say [TS]

00:14:23   they totally be totally pick up on him [TS]

00:14:25   the bag him being portrayed as being not [TS]

00:14:28   that great a guy but they said they [TS]

00:14:29   didn't like him until he died then they [TS]

00:14:31   like too many felt bad for him right he [TS]

00:14:33   could easily read yeah i mean that's [TS]

00:14:34   exactly what they're going to realize [TS]

00:14:35   your vagina fascinating to see it work [TS]

00:14:38   right now I definitely watch the Machine [TS]

00:14:40   return and watch my kids take that [TS]

00:14:42   journey and get to the point where [TS]

00:14:43   they're like oh I never liked him and I [TS]

00:14:45   feel sad that he's dead yeah it's nice [TS]

00:14:46   because as adults I feel like we're all [TS]

00:14:48   kind of jaded oh yeah you know [TS]

00:14:50   especially for most of us you read these [TS]

00:14:51   stories as kids and then saw the movies [TS]

00:14:54   come out and so it's nice to be its [TS]

00:14:56   being able to see it through fresh eyes [TS]

00:14:57   is kind of it's a nice touch but there's [TS]

00:15:00   a worthwhile point to make here too is [TS]

00:15:02   that the difference [TS]

00:15:02   I mean you know there's obviously always [TS]

00:15:04   differences between the book and movie [TS]

00:15:05   and plot and not that part but in the [TS]

00:15:08   book Boromir does not appear that much [TS]

00:15:10   in the movie he's always on screen so [TS]

00:15:12   he's always glowering looking fingering [TS]

00:15:15   his sword thinking ring like Assange is [TS]

00:15:18   Charlene is just so damn good-looking [TS]

00:15:20   but in the books you know you really go [TS]

00:15:22   for page at a time which border has no [TS]

00:15:24   part except to defend the hobbits are [TS]

00:15:26   run down a hallway [TS]

00:15:27   more like boring mirror haha burn but [TS]

00:15:32   there is that point that that it went [TS]

00:15:34   when you have to visually portray nine [TS]

00:15:36   people together for this long period of [TS]

00:15:38   time [TS]

00:15:39   it's a different experience reading a [TS]

00:15:40   book [TS]

00:15:40   in which that person is not somebody [TS]

00:15:41   born here comes across as much means [TS]

00:15:44   played as more scheming and and [TS]

00:15:47   malleable and weak in the book in the [TS]

00:15:49   movie than the book as well but I think [TS]

00:15:51   we just see them all the time they have [TS]

00:15:53   to have something that is business but [TS]

00:15:55   the problem with that is that we sit in [TS]

00:15:57   the context of a book almost anything is [TS]

00:16:00   possible because there's so much variety [TS]

00:16:02   and how book is plotted how characters [TS]

00:16:04   are taken from the start to the ending [TS]

00:16:05   in a movie [TS]

00:16:07   there's almost everything falls into a [TS]

00:16:09   very common trope and again i'm saying [TS]

00:16:12   outright the the said earlier that i had [TS]

00:16:14   not read the the the trilogy books only [TS]

00:16:17   read the hobbit from start to finish and [TS]

00:16:19   I'd sort of football Boromir into okay [TS]

00:16:22   so they're setting him up as the guy [TS]

00:16:25   that's gonna cause trouble for the party [TS]

00:16:27   that's gonna be the constant danger but [TS]

00:16:29   there's going to be a redeeming moment [TS]

00:16:30   and probably he's gonna die to add to [TS]

00:16:32   illustrate to the audience how high the [TS]

00:16:35   stakes were for the whole thing and it [TS]

00:16:37   wasn't because i think that the the [TS]

00:16:38   books are poorly written and I think it [TS]

00:16:40   was because this is how i parse a movie [TS]

00:16:43   there's a point which you drop that [TS]

00:16:44   penny and I can I can't help but hear it [TS]

00:16:47   will bring against the tiles you know [TS]

00:16:48   there's a textual shorthand you know [TS]

00:16:51   there's a narrative shorthand that we've [TS]

00:16:53   all become accustomed to because we all [TS]

00:16:54   see how the machinery works so yeah i [TS]

00:16:58   mean i agree i mean i think there is a [TS]

00:16:59   there's a certain amount of [TS]

00:17:00   predictability to that but again you [TS]

00:17:02   know different seen through are jaded [TS]

00:17:05   eyes than seen through the eyes of [TS]

00:17:06   someone who is not as familiar with the [TS]

00:17:08   that formulaic progression sure line and [TS]

00:17:10   talking I mean so much so much fantasy [TS]

00:17:13   is has come from talking that it's hard [TS]

00:17:18   it's like you know it's what any of [TS]

00:17:19   these things where somebody does [TS]

00:17:21   something really innovative but from the [TS]

00:17:23   perspective of 50 years later it doesn't [TS]

00:17:25   appear very innovative it's because [TS]

00:17:27   everybody copied it it was so innovative [TS]

00:17:29   so amazing and then in hindsight it [TS]

00:17:31   looks like it's just one of the pack [TS]

00:17:33   when but no no it was first and and with [TS]

00:17:35   that you know we've got the the plot [TS]

00:17:38   mechanisms here and a lot of the [TS]

00:17:39   trappings of this world are things that [TS]

00:17:42   we know if we've seen a lot of movies [TS]

00:17:44   and read a lot of books especially [TS]

00:17:46   fantasy books and i was struck in in [TS]

00:17:49   watching with my kids that with off with [TS]

00:17:52   a fresh pair of eyes I mean they were [TS]

00:17:54   kind of enthralled and they have they [TS]

00:17:55   haven't seen a lot of stories like this [TS]

00:17:57   and they you know it it was impossible [TS]

00:18:01   for me to watch this movie even the [TS]

00:18:03   first time without thinking of the books [TS]

00:18:06   at least I I another aspect that I'd [TS]

00:18:08   like to get into is people's [TS]

00:18:10   relationships with the with the source [TS]

00:18:12   material because for a lot of people [TS]

00:18:14   the books are something that you read a [TS]

00:18:16   lot i think john has read it multiple [TS]

00:18:18   times on very small electronic devices [TS]

00:18:21   is true and for some people it say that [TS]

00:18:24   you know the books are an incredible [TS]

00:18:25   part of their their childhood memories [TS]

00:18:27   are adolescent memories i bought the [TS]

00:18:29   book the version I've got in my hand [TS]

00:18:31   right now in two thousand when i was in [TS]

00:18:33   london and i read it in two thousand and [TS]

00:18:37   I've never read it before so I didn't [TS]

00:18:39   read until I was 30 years old and and as [TS]

00:18:42   a result might my view of the movies is [TS]

00:18:45   very different i think from somebody who [TS]

00:18:46   grew up with these stories and really [TS]

00:18:48   knew the whole the whole story going in [TS]

00:18:50   and then somebody else might have not [TS]

00:18:52   read it all and have a like Andy and [TS]

00:18:54   have a completely different perspective [TS]

00:18:55   too so there's so many different ways [TS]

00:18:56   you can come at at a work like this and [TS]

00:19:00   in so you know John Dean you know you [TS]

00:19:03   have that you have a pretty close [TS]

00:19:04   relationship with it with the source [TS]

00:19:06   material is that how does that an impact [TS]

00:19:08   how you view these movies now let's [TS]

00:19:10   think about that when I was watching [TS]

00:19:11   them again the fact that although i've [TS]

00:19:14   read Hobbit and Lord of the Rings [TS]

00:19:16   multiple times every 3-4 times the last [TS]

00:19:20   time i read them was probably right [TS]

00:19:22   before the fellowship came out that i [TS]

00:19:25   read through them like one last time [TS]

00:19:26   before the movie came out right and so I [TS]

00:19:28   haven't read the books and so long since [TS]

00:19:30   since reading the books I've now seen [TS]

00:19:31   the movies three or four times and a lot [TS]

00:19:33   of like you know up the movies are [TS]

00:19:36   starting to I start to think did that [TS]

00:19:39   happen in the movie or did that happen [TS]

00:19:40   in the book you know which parts did [TS]

00:19:42   they change from the book or which part [TS]

00:19:43   is that you know and I get them mixed up [TS]

00:19:45   in my head because I'm old right but [TS]

00:19:47   still when i watch the the movies [TS]

00:19:50   it's a situation with the movies in the [TS]

00:19:52   books [TS]

00:19:53   despite me not remembering what what [TS]

00:19:55   events changed where what was made up by [TS]

00:19:57   you know the the writers of the movies [TS]

00:19:59   not when I pictured in my head there to [TS]

00:20:03   almost entirely different things I just [TS]

00:20:05   I see nothing of the movies [TS]

00:20:07   and thinking about the books and vice [TS]

00:20:09   versa and but you know like in terms [TS]

00:20:11   like what does the world look like what [TS]

00:20:13   do you picture in your head when you're [TS]

00:20:14   reading the book i did not picture [TS]

00:20:15   anything from the movies [TS]

00:20:17   despite the fact that you know that the [TS]

00:20:19   movies are out there and the other thing [TS]

00:20:20   is when watching the movies even now [TS]

00:20:22   even super duper long extended editions [TS]

00:20:24   and also the sister of the hobbit as [TS]

00:20:26   well just saw the first movie of it may [TS]

00:20:28   seem to me like this big long story and [TS]

00:20:32   we're going to dip the camera into the [TS]

00:20:34   story for like 30 seconds and then pull [TS]

00:20:36   it out and then we're going to dip it in [TS]

00:20:37   and we're gonna pull it out totally [TS]

00:20:39   disjointed but as someone who's read the [TS]

00:20:43   book so much like all right well that's [TS]

00:20:45   fine because I know everything that [TS]

00:20:46   comes between but they just they just [TS]

00:20:49   seem that way it seems like it really [TS]

00:20:51   seems like just dipping a movie camera [TS]

00:20:52   into this gigantic river and you're like [TS]

00:20:54   oh yeah I remember that part and then [TS]

00:20:56   you're like okay about all you remember [TS]

00:20:57   that part [TS]

00:20:58   yeah our that wasn't really in the books [TS]

00:21:00   i don't think but anyway I see what [TS]

00:21:01   you're getting at and it just doesn't it [TS]

00:21:03   doesn't feel like a cohesive whole [TS]

00:21:05   but it doesn't make me just like the [TS]

00:21:07   movies because i know all the parts that [TS]

00:21:08   are in the middle as i know the stuff [TS]

00:21:09   you don't mean and and it's like [TS]

00:21:11   highlight yes I've always wanted must be [TS]

00:21:13   inaccessible to people who haven't read [TS]

00:21:15   the book I've worried what I've seen [TS]

00:21:16   some of the time like this [TS]

00:21:18   can't make any sense the sequence of [TS]

00:21:20   things that just happened [TS]

00:21:21   they just have to take it on faith or [TS]

00:21:23   ignore all the gaps there because it [TS]

00:21:25   doesn't make any sense [TS]

00:21:26   I mean watching again it's really [TS]

00:21:27   obvious your stuff that makes well [TS]

00:21:29   there's a there's a logic to it if [TS]

00:21:30   you've seen you know if you're familiar [TS]

00:21:32   with the genre I feel like you're [TS]

00:21:34   everything about fantasy is john r you [TS]

00:21:36   can wave your hands over a lot of it and [TS]

00:21:38   be like yeah you know magic or whatever [TS]

00:21:40   you know there is a certain logic to it [TS]

00:21:42   but i agree that it is as but you know [TS]

00:21:44   someone coming over [TS]

00:21:45   yeah you know it's amazing that these [TS]

00:21:47   became a blockbuster mainstream hits [TS]

00:21:49   given how this preposterous it seemed [TS]

00:21:52   and talking it's like when someone shuts [TS]

00:21:54   out like you know you know you are one [TS]

00:21:56   of the race of nĂºmenor the other person [TS]

00:21:57   says yes I am and it's like oh ok then [TS]

00:22:00   let me know that's not even that is [TS]

00:22:02   sometimes that's not explain that much [TS]

00:22:03   in the book because they have appendices [TS]

00:22:04   and some early and I was on a study but [TS]

00:22:06   it's just it like it doesn't feel like [TS]

00:22:09   they narrative leaf it together the way [TS]

00:22:11   you would write scene scene scene like [TS]

00:22:13   this see naturally is to the next thing [TS]

00:22:14   that doesn't actually need to this is [TS]

00:22:16   like 600 pages you just like you know [TS]

00:22:18   there are you know the 50-page gap that [TS]

00:22:20   you pulled out there and [TS]

00:22:21   the way they have to be interleaved in [TS]

00:22:22   the book versus the way they're done in [TS]

00:22:24   the movies is very very different [TS]

00:22:25   because of the meeting which is fine but [TS]

00:22:27   it's just the movies net the movies [TS]

00:22:28   always feel like here are some [TS]

00:22:30   highlights from book that you liked [TS]

00:22:31   yeah except i've only read the book once [TS]

00:22:33   and my wife has never read the book and [TS]

00:22:36   as a game of thrones basis i'm not going [TS]

00:22:38   to read these books so we're just gonna [TS]

00:22:39   watch it and she has watched it with me [TS]

00:22:42   multiple times and enjoyed it [TS]

00:22:44   uh oh yeah all those times and the only [TS]

00:22:47   thing that bothered her was not the not [TS]

00:22:49   the plot because I think I think [TS]

00:22:51   honestly you there are some amazing [TS]

00:22:54   shortcuts that the that the brain takes [TS]

00:22:57   where you're like watching a movie and [TS]

00:22:58   you say alright okay thats you know I [TS]

00:23:00   apparently he is not going to get old [TS]

00:23:03   very fast right music nor it's a thing [TS]

00:23:06   whatever he's a ranger when you just [TS]

00:23:07   like okay and and if you read the book [TS]

00:23:09   you might be like oh well that has all [TS]

00:23:11   this meeting but if you don't you just [TS]

00:23:13   go get all right fine and you end it [TS]

00:23:15   that hasn't bothered her in fact I would [TS]

00:23:16   say as with Game of Thrones the thing [TS]

00:23:21   that gets my wife when she's watching [TS]

00:23:23   these movies is is things like it's [TS]

00:23:25   differentiating characters like which [TS]

00:23:27   which guy is that because as are our [TS]

00:23:30   mutual friend philip Michaels often has [TS]

00:23:32   said uh and and Lisa Schmeisser what we [TS]

00:23:35   really got here is Alfie dwarfee beardy [TS]

00:23:38   a cloak like cloak guy everybody when [TS]

00:23:43   you had the too many pretty men with [TS]

00:23:44   long hair yeah that aragorn Boromir [TS]

00:23:46   Pharaoh you're 80 more you know i can [TS]

00:23:50   say all start to look they've all got [TS]

00:23:52   stubble and beard [TS]

00:23:53   this is a problem with thousand-page [TS]

00:23:55   books that it is just a minute you can't [TS]

00:23:57   have that make their characters but even [TS]

00:23:59   in the fellowship with all white guys [TS]

00:24:01   yeah which is that guy [TS]

00:24:02   which one is that because it was so [TS]

00:24:03   there's the elf guy and the dwarf guy [TS]

00:24:05   and then there's that there's a little [TS]

00:24:07   hobbitses and then there's the two kind [TS]

00:24:09   of or are madly guy with with a but [TS]

00:24:12   there's the one with the beard the one [TS]

00:24:13   who just sort of hasn't shaved very much [TS]

00:24:15   right poorly shaved yea once again at [TS]

00:24:17   once again to roll him that's when I [TS]

00:24:18   think most casual people start to lose [TS]

00:24:20   track this like all right I had to [TS]

00:24:21   fellowship down they were all kinda [TS]

00:24:23   together a day they were different [TS]

00:24:24   heights but now just throw hand they're [TS]

00:24:26   all just a bunch of scruffy horse yeah [TS]

00:24:27   who's this horse guy [TS]

00:24:28   well in the row has seen it seems like [TS]

00:24:30   there's people are going to be important [TS]

00:24:32   later who are [TS]

00:24:32   not the introduce them and give them the [TS]

00:24:34   screen time as if they will be nao and [TS]

00:24:37   is kind of like hanging around you like [TS]

00:24:38   why did you keep going back to here and [TS]

00:24:40   just keep watching [TS]

00:24:41   she's the only interesting female [TS]

00:24:43   character in the story that's probably [TS]

00:24:45   one of the reasons they keep going back [TS]

00:24:46   to her and she's not that interesting [TS]

00:24:48   the extended edition i think what you [TS]

00:24:50   doin is much more interesting and I [TS]

00:24:52   think that whole part of the plot is [TS]

00:24:54   more interesting in the extended edition [TS]

00:24:55   two more interesting but I I don't know [TS]

00:24:57   if necessarily i would say interesting I [TS]

00:24:59   or was funny i think she's one of the [TS]

00:25:01   best centers of the two towers i think [TS]

00:25:03   but the books are the movies in the [TS]

00:25:05   movie but it's anybody's anybody really [TS]

00:25:08   going to dip into the extended edition [TS]

00:25:09   for that reason though I think the [TS]

00:25:10   people the people who can you can [TS]

00:25:12   instinctively understand the plot of [TS]

00:25:13   people who are already really in [TS]

00:25:15   familiar invested with it and they're [TS]

00:25:17   kinda hungry to look at those chapters [TS]

00:25:19   that weren't that didn't make it into [TS]

00:25:20   part of the theatrical release that's [TS]

00:25:22   right recipe recipe you got confused to [TS]

00:25:24   begin with I'm not gonna dress ga nai [TS]

00:25:27   again maybe maybe another half an hour [TS]

00:25:29   to really clear this up for me if only [TS]

00:25:31   this for longer it would be clear [TS]

00:25:33   exactly what my problem was it was it [TS]

00:25:35   was a lot like it was a lot like [TS]

00:25:37   heaven's gate of you guys ever seen [TS]

00:25:39   Heaven's Gate Michael Cimino movie like [TS]

00:25:40   1978 legendary movie that judgment [TS]

00:25:44   legendary disaster movie actually [TS]

00:25:45   brought down Universal Media you in the [TS]

00:25:48   united artists and but not to get the [TS]

00:25:50   whole thing but the there's a [TS]

00:25:52   two-and-a-half-hour version that doesn't [TS]

00:25:53   make sense because it seems as though [TS]

00:25:56   they're like scenes from three different [TS]

00:25:58   movies going on side by side by side and [TS]

00:26:01   you never know well what is the [TS]

00:26:02   beginning middle and end of this what [TS]

00:26:04   was the what character we supposed to be [TS]

00:26:06   following and what goal is suppose being [TS]

00:26:08   being made and then I I didn't get that [TS]

00:26:11   I didn't really understand that so I [TS]

00:26:13   sought out being by on get on video the [TS]

00:26:15   three-and-a-half-hour directors cut [TS]

00:26:17   originally permitted film festival and [TS]

00:26:19   it's only a longer version of 45 [TS]

00:26:21   different movies that are sort of cut [TS]

00:26:23   together and that's AII didn't I I'll [TS]

00:26:25   say again I didn't I did enjoy lord of [TS]

00:26:27   the rings but I got in there thinking [TS]

00:26:30   that ok this is a movie about a ring of [TS]

00:26:32   consummate evil that has to be brought [TS]

00:26:34   back to its source and destroyed or else [TS]

00:26:36   it's going to call basically ruined [TS]

00:26:38   everything but that by the time you're [TS]

00:26:41   in like our two of this 9r movie it [TS]

00:26:42   feels like know they're telling six [TS]

00:26:45   different stories of what [TS]

00:26:46   the story of this good when the movies [TS]

00:26:48   not over when the ring gets destroyed [TS]

00:26:50   it's also the story about the elves that [TS]

00:26:52   may be sticking around but may not be [TS]

00:26:54   sticking around and it's also the story [TS]

00:26:56   of power wise itself guy got it in let [TS]

00:27:00   the elf woman in love with the the [TS]

00:27:02   romance novel covers sword guy and it [TS]

00:27:05   just seems as though they just it's a [TS]

00:27:07   it's a multi-purpose massively [TS]

00:27:09   multiplayer multiplayer online game in [TS]

00:27:12   which you can sort of like follow [TS]

00:27:13   different friends as they both forgot [TS]

00:27:14   know that I'm gonna play the game in [TS]

00:27:16   which we try to drink the woman in the [TS]

00:27:18   chainmail under the table [TS]

00:27:19   I'm gonna do the one where I tried to [TS]

00:27:20   level up and finally fight the dragon [TS]

00:27:22   it's fun but it's like Oh kinda really [TS]

00:27:25   wish there was a through-line one [TS]

00:27:27   through lines the entire thing [TS]

00:27:28   this stuff is in the book though in the [TS]

00:27:30   end I i think that's one of the one of [TS]

00:27:33   the the issues here I actually think [TS]

00:27:34   that the extended editions add a lot of [TS]

00:27:36   good material and that there's other [TS]

00:27:38   stuff and in the theatrical additions [TS]

00:27:41   that uh is not as interesting as some of [TS]

00:27:44   the stuff that's added by the extended i [TS]

00:27:45   would i would sort of recommend that [TS]

00:27:47   anybody who's interested watch the [TS]

00:27:48   extended edition but the but the [TS]

00:27:50   faithful adaptation i wanted to mention [TS]

00:27:52   John mentioned you know you're dipping [TS]

00:27:54   into scenes from this really long book [TS]

00:27:56   and even at ten hours you can't really [TS]

00:27:59   adapter 12 hours or 80 hours or however [TS]

00:28:01   long it is you can't really adapt a [TS]

00:28:03   thousand-page book and sometimes i think [TS]

00:28:05   that uh and and I know now that we know [TS]

00:28:08   that that an even shorter book is being [TS]

00:28:11   made into three movies by Peter Jackson [TS]

00:28:12   it makes it even more difficult to to to [TS]

00:28:14   think about this but not all the bottom [TS]

00:28:16   there's a whole other series of [TS]

00:28:18   thousands of podcast so much so my point [TS]

00:28:21   is you know it's great that they wanted [TS]

00:28:25   to honor this very important book that [TS]

00:28:27   meant so much to them by doing a [TS]

00:28:29   faithful adaptation but there's a lot of [TS]

00:28:31   stuff in here that that I just look at [TS]

00:28:33   and think why is this in this movie and [TS]

00:28:34   I and I'm saying is somebody who likes [TS]

00:28:36   these movies and watch them a lot i'm [TS]

00:28:38   struck every time I but I watch them by [TS]

00:28:39   the things that the things that appeal [TS]

00:28:42   to me there are certain things that [TS]

00:28:43   appeal to me and then there are other [TS]

00:28:44   whole thing's was like why is this here [TS]

00:28:47   and there's the whole you know yes the [TS]

00:28:49   elves leaving is important for the plot [TS]

00:28:51   and yet it's very strange and it's not [TS]

00:28:53   explained very well and then should be a [TS]

00:28:55   big Dan and the with a romance this [TS]

00:28:57   weird abortive road [TS]

00:28:59   dance between aon and Aragorn and then [TS]

00:29:03   at the end they like together together [TS]

00:29:04   with fair mirror so that there's a happy [TS]

00:29:06   and like yeah ending and it's so poorly [TS]

00:29:09   handled and when is it an interesting [TS]

00:29:11   character and the the it you know to [TS]

00:29:15   cleanse point that's true but you know [TS]

00:29:18   there's so much of this planet in the [TS]

00:29:20   hole left Tyler thing which you know [TS]

00:29:22   that's a character that's kind of blown [TS]

00:29:23   up in order to have more of women [TS]

00:29:26   characters in the book which is [TS]

00:29:27   admirable except that you know she isn't [TS]

00:29:30   that interesting and if you're seeing [TS]

00:29:31   these movies in the theater [TS]

00:29:33   she is your cue to go to the bathroom [TS]

00:29:34   haha she's great she's great in her [TS]

00:29:37   first five minutes of her appearance and [TS]

00:29:39   then after that that's it unfortunately [TS]

00:29:41   she has to play a lot of woe is me [TS]

00:29:43   yeah that's part of my the inexplicable [TS]

00:29:44   part two is we were talking about the [TS]

00:29:46   books when i mean i think i've read over [TS]

00:29:48   the books when I was in a teenager and I [TS]

00:29:50   may have read them for them at least 10 [TS]

00:29:53   times maybe more [TS]

00:29:54   wow they're great i think they're part [TS]

00:29:56   of my you know they're part of my [TS]

00:29:58   errands i'm i'm a language family so you [TS]

00:30:00   and John are in the I've read these [TS]

00:30:02   books over and over and over again camp [TS]

00:30:04   yeah and I've read The Silmarillion I've [TS]

00:30:05   read the you know some of the other [TS]

00:30:07   books i'm in the middle of you guys [TS]

00:30:08   apparently i read fellowship in fifth [TS]

00:30:11   grade for the first time I think I I [TS]

00:30:13   pretty quickly went through three of [TS]

00:30:15   them didn't read reread them until right [TS]

00:30:18   before like John right before the movies [TS]

00:30:19   came out and as is you know my team I [TS]

00:30:22   notoriously poor memory I can't remember [TS]

00:30:25   them at all before the movies came out I [TS]

00:30:28   i love the idea and i love the fact that [TS]

00:30:29   this you know he does create this world [TS]

00:30:31   that's that's fascinating it and iconic [TS]

00:30:34   right you know because so much has [TS]

00:30:35   borrowed from from Lord of the Rings [TS]

00:30:37   that said find the books kind of [TS]

00:30:39   ponderous what ya get through and that's [TS]

00:30:41   for me like yeah I read is he at a young [TS]

00:30:43   age but the same time it was more of a [TS]

00:30:46   it was like reading a historical [TS]

00:30:47   document and at times literally like [TS]

00:30:49   reading a historical document or the [TS]

00:30:51   silmarillion and like 730 that's like [TS]

00:30:53   you're reading research at that point [TS]

00:30:55   it's like it's really a history book of [TS]

00:30:57   the things that never happened didn't [TS]

00:30:58   know it's it's like talking to the only [TS]

00:31:02   person who wrote his own fanfic that's [TS]

00:31:03   what hahahaha talkin was a you know [TS]

00:31:07   flawless jist as it is a professor is a [TS]

00:31:09   professor in it we know these were [TS]

00:31:11   written [TS]

00:31:11   in CS Lewis had a bet and they were [TS]

00:31:14   gonna both write science fiction novels [TS]

00:31:16   and I think they're both the right [TS]

00:31:17   fantasy as well and you know that is [TS]

00:31:19   where out of that would LOL ron Hubbard [TS]

00:31:21   that's I know what you think nothing [TS]

00:31:23   part of the grand we all lost they were [TS]

00:31:26   lonely man oh come on you getting aren't [TS]

00:31:27   you get the seven Narnia books from that [TS]

00:31:29   and you get the silent planet Cyril and [TS]

00:31:32   Ray Allen very deeply flawed but very [TS]

00:31:34   interesting books very different than [TS]

00:31:36   most sense for me I i have fonder [TS]

00:31:38   memories of narnia and maybe that's [TS]

00:31:40   because I read the more softer it's [TS]

00:31:42   easier to close your category this is so [TS]

00:31:44   what does this say is that I you know [TS]

00:31:45   one of the reasons i like the book says [TS]

00:31:47   yes they're dense and parts i think the [TS]

00:31:48   Fellowship of all three of the books is [TS]

00:31:51   among the most approachable most [TS]

00:31:52   interesting because it devolves into [TS]

00:31:54   walking in battles and you know the [TS]

00:31:57   giant spiders but the the language is [TS]

00:31:59   what got me that's why the silmarillion [TS]

00:32:01   was interesting to me the appendices as [TS]

00:32:03   I was I never I don't think I was ever [TS]

00:32:05   on track to become like a you know a [TS]

00:32:07   full ology major whatever that major be [TS]

00:32:09   linguistics or language but I language [TS]

00:32:12   is wonderful i think we can all agree [TS]

00:32:13   that Tolkien wrote the best the road the [TS]

00:32:16   best dnd sourcebook haha [TS]

00:32:18   everybody's best dependencies definitive [TS]

00:32:21   well he brought the sourcebook for like [TS]

00:32:23   all high fantasy of the 20th century but [TS]

00:32:25   that's right i mean and it's always [TS]

00:32:27   funny to me as someone who has played [TS]

00:32:29   played a lot of dnd as a kid and more [TS]

00:32:31   recently that I always look at the wait [TS]

00:32:34   but there's a wizard he's got a staff [TS]

00:32:35   and a sword Wizards have stories like [TS]

00:32:38   this it's you know the the impact that [TS]

00:32:40   he's had spread so far and led to these [TS]

00:32:42   other worlds and crew you know these [TS]

00:32:44   rules of fantasy right that it's funny [TS]

00:32:47   then go back to the original you know [TS]

00:32:49   the source of so much of this and [TS]

00:32:50   realize yeah he wasn't strict about some [TS]

00:32:52   of these things as all the people later [TS]

00:32:54   who really wanted to construct rules and [TS]

00:32:56   logic for all these fantasy magic [TS]

00:32:59   systems and all that you know he played [TS]

00:33:01   a little more loosey-goosey and it was [TS]

00:33:03   you did you say it was he was on [TS]

00:33:04   fanfiction who get that was and I think [TS]

00:33:06   that's never thought about it that way [TS]

00:33:07   before but it was true he developed the [TS]

00:33:10   languages and they needed to have a [TS]

00:33:11   culture that with them so he wrote book [TS]

00:33:13   yeah you know that that's I think you're [TS]

00:33:15   you got it exactly right and you can [TS]

00:33:17   also try to retail in he wanted to give [TS]

00:33:19   England a mythic past yes that of its [TS]

00:33:22   own didn't have its own and this is [TS]

00:33:23   essentially a you know it is [TS]

00:33:25   England is middle-earth Manicaland and [TS]

00:33:27   it's sort of somewhere between like that [TS]

00:33:29   you know the the Danes and the vikings [TS]

00:33:31   and waves of invasion whatever it and [TS]

00:33:33   it's an allegory for the I mean it's [TS]

00:33:35   also an allegory for the world wars you [TS]

00:33:37   know how the same time I know he is [TS]

00:33:39   where he claimed that they were and they [TS]

00:33:41   so clearly are but he wrote a lot of war [TS]

00:33:43   of the rings before World War two [TS]

00:33:44   what's the right but he fought in world [TS]

00:33:46   war one yeah you know that clearly [TS]

00:33:48   impacts how he feels about this i mean [TS]

00:33:49   i'd lost today in particular watching [TS]

00:33:52   return the king at the very you know as [TS]

00:33:54   you get towards the end photo since [TS]

00:33:55   they're going like how do you pick up [TS]

00:33:56   your old life like that to me is like [TS]

00:33:58   that's a veteran coming back from war [TS]

00:34:00   right you know [TS]

00:34:01   and clearly i read a little bit of his [TS]

00:34:03   bio well I was sitting there watching [TS]

00:34:05   the movie and about you know he was [TS]

00:34:06   convalescent you know injured and all [TS]

00:34:08   that in hospitals in school you know I [TS]

00:34:10   think it's impossible for him to have [TS]

00:34:12   written that without that experience in [TS]

00:34:13   forming it and then you look at the [TS]

00:34:15   world war two parallels and even if it's [TS]

00:34:17   not directly intended you know to be so [TS]

00:34:20   it it comes across very strongly [TS]

00:34:22   yeah it's it's a it's very clear right [TS]

00:34:25   down to America saving the day is [TS]

00:34:28   America get off [TS]

00:34:30   no it's the Eagles do become a bald [TS]

00:34:32   eagle swooping how could you read any [TS]

00:34:35   more blatant the net if they wait to the [TS]

00:34:37   last minute and then swooped in your [TS]

00:34:39   right price wells in the heart of the [TS]

00:34:40   American bear it's franklin roosevelt is [TS]

00:34:43   riding on an eagle and he just swoops in [TS]

00:34:45   kills i think i saw the stephen colbert [TS]

00:34:47   a little too late because the story is [TS]

00:34:49   really already already extended extended [TS]

00:34:51   edition it is amusing that stephen [TS]

00:34:53   colbert's and massive crazy Lord of the [TS]

00:34:55   Rings fair yeah when viggo mortensen was [TS]

00:34:57   on The Daily Show and before the colbert [TS]

00:35:00   report it started and he brought [TS]

00:35:02   apparently some incredible gift to [TS]

00:35:04   Stephen Colbert and they cut to like an [TS]

00:35:06   incentive Colbert reciting the entire [TS]

00:35:08   history like the reading the appendices [TS]

00:35:10   from memory [TS]

00:35:11   he does tom bombadil when I interviews [TS]

00:35:13   neil gaiman on the colbert report noted [TS]

00:35:15   just on top of his head he's talking [TS]

00:35:17   interview and he just does like the [TS]

00:35:19   whole tom bombadil song its he is really [TS]

00:35:21   is quite the fan [TS]

00:35:23   what do you see so you saw the week when [TS]

00:35:24   he had like almost the entire cast and [TS]

00:35:26   jackson on the entire week know and [TS]

00:35:29   that's what you get go you should know [TS]

00:35:31   you have to see this because yet because [TS]

00:35:34   again these are people who've been [TS]

00:35:35   living in this universe like Pierre [TS]

00:35:36   Jackson living in this universe for what [TS]

00:35:38   ten years more than 10 years and yet [TS]

00:35:40   like Peter tracks will say and then yeah [TS]

00:35:42   there was the two and then well the [TS]

00:35:44   thing is we had we had a problem finding [TS]

00:35:45   the sword that I don't remember was that [TS]

00:35:48   and then he then and then Colbert will [TS]

00:35:50   talk about that will not only correct [TS]

00:35:52   about the movie but also boasts talk for [TS]

00:35:54   two minutes but oh you're talking about [TS]

00:35:56   blog which was the sword was forged by [TS]

00:35:58   the heart of his new realtor for Danny [TS]

00:36:01   spoken exactly he's going like deep [TS]

00:36:03   catalog and you can tell he's not just [TS]

00:36:05   trying to do a bit [TS]

00:36:06   it's like just like any really really [TS]

00:36:08   wonderful in like nerd it's like he [TS]

00:36:09   cannot stop but shares of excitement [TS]

00:36:11   with the guy who directed this movie [TS]

00:36:13   well Jackson is probably also you know [TS]

00:36:15   he's he's got internalised to tone it [TS]

00:36:17   down because he wants to reach a broader [TS]

00:36:19   audience and he's simplifying everything [TS]

00:36:21   and he's an old friend of mine and then [TS]

00:36:22   Stephen Colbert is basically like no no [TS]

00:36:24   don't simplify let's get into this is [TS]

00:36:27   the thing that impressed me about that [TS]

00:36:29   interview one of the interviews I saw [TS]

00:36:30   those interviews and one of them they [TS]

00:36:33   mentioned that when Stephen Colbert went [TS]

00:36:34   down to New Zealand they were filming [TS]

00:36:36   The Hobbit they had a token trivia [TS]

00:36:39   contest with the quick their crew with [TS]

00:36:41   the crew that was the movie and stephen [TS]

00:36:43   colbert 10 and i don't think the people [TS]

00:36:45   there were pulling their punches so [TS]

00:36:46   that's not just that but i think i think [TS]

00:36:48   one was actually one of the researchers [TS]

00:36:50   that they have like that on set [TS]

00:36:52   yeah it was like all biggest marriage in [TS]

00:36:54   the movie the people speak fluent elvish [TS]

00:36:56   are there i mean that's right there the [TS]

00:36:58   elvish consultants who speak it in their [TS]

00:37:00   spare time who finally found a purpose [TS]

00:37:01   in life to be consultants on this movie [TS]

00:37:03   and people to beat them fancy and I [TS]

00:37:05   don't think they'd let him win because [TS]

00:37:06   he's a celebrity those like the nerds [TS]

00:37:08   who were there you know go to guys for [TS]

00:37:09   book facts on the movie they wanted to [TS]

00:37:11   beat him and they didn't so that gave [TS]

00:37:12   him the most crabs little john's just [TS]

00:37:14   like if they ask you to star wars trivia [TS]

00:37:16   contest i'm not going to start you're [TS]

00:37:17   the star wars trivia ringer ok then I'll [TS]

00:37:19   do it [TS]

00:37:20   top him tapping for John yeah yeah yeah [TS]

00:37:22   we'll do a little tag team will be it [TS]

00:37:24   was saying before that like the the [TS]

00:37:26   extended editions like you know well you [TS]

00:37:28   know if you're really into the books [TS]

00:37:29   maybe like I'm adding that junk you [TS]

00:37:31   don't need otherwise I found you really [TS]

00:37:33   like the books and I found when I see [TS]

00:37:35   the extended ones with the extra stuff [TS]

00:37:37   in it i would expect the extra stop to [TS]

00:37:39   say all I call these gaps in this big [TS]

00:37:41   Swiss cheese and a movie that I'm seeing [TS]

00:37:42   when they add the stuff and really still [TS]

00:37:44   fill in some of those Swiss cheese holes [TS]

00:37:45   and in some way somehow it just makes [TS]

00:37:48   more holes like by adding more material [TS]

00:37:51   I'm like it now [TS]

00:37:52   it's breaking it up even more because [TS]

00:37:53   there's a whole section is that you [TS]

00:37:55   didn't want to even think about this it [TS]

00:37:56   actually we're going to have one two and [TS]

00:37:57   a half minutes seen about that you're [TS]

00:37:59   like wait a second now you just opened [TS]

00:38:00   an entire door here because all other [TS]

00:38:02   thing that you're talking about it [TS]

00:38:04   there's the extended scene in the [TS]

00:38:05   tradition of the bit where aragorn is in [TS]

00:38:09   the stables and one of the horses like [TS]

00:38:10   all his rider has been lost he can't be [TS]

00:38:12   tamed and he goes over and starts [TS]

00:38:14   talking horse in elvish break or [TS]

00:38:16   whatever his name is it calms down and [TS]

00:38:18   then a woman has a scene with him and [TS]

00:38:20   she realizes he is and I was like that [TS]

00:38:22   was a great scene but you're right it's [TS]

00:38:23   like wait a minute they can talk to [TS]

00:38:24   horses [TS]

00:38:25   there's a wide please sing the song [TS]

00:38:28   about Baron everything and anything you [TS]

00:38:30   know you don't know via lock two horses [TS]

00:38:32   all the time they just don't talk back [TS]

00:38:34   that's right also the guy who plays the [TS]

00:38:36   horses great two guys one of the front [TS]

00:38:39   one in the back [TS]

00:38:40   spoilers they're both in the back I [TS]

00:38:42   understand was a dog in motion capture [TS]

00:38:44   suit if you want a relook at work you [TS]

00:38:46   gotta get anybody get this one they're [TS]

00:38:47   all andy serkis that's Michael you know [TS]

00:38:50   this dog is like the Andy Serkis of dogs [TS]

00:38:52   that hasn't been done yet it needs to be [TS]

00:38:54   done [TS]

00:38:54   that's great that doesn't it doesn't [TS]

00:38:55   feel a little bit little like you get [TS]

00:38:57   these drug addicts that they can [TS]

00:38:59   initially like get high off of the only [TS]

00:39:01   get a couple beers to get a buzz and oh [TS]

00:39:03   my god they're out of control and then [TS]

00:39:05   the more they drink the more they need [TS]

00:39:07   more alcohol the more drugs need to [TS]

00:39:09   consume to get that kind of high they're [TS]

00:39:11   looking for you talking about I [TS]

00:39:12   filmmakers no I'm talking about like [TS]

00:39:15   I've been talking about fans they're [TS]

00:39:16   like your fans okay you're talking [TS]

00:39:18   earlier about how there are delicate we [TS]

00:39:21   wanted to run double stupor no go ahead [TS]

00:39:23   it it's mostly piping yeah but how you [TS]

00:39:26   want how you as a fan you want to see [TS]

00:39:28   them go deep catalog like that because [TS]

00:39:30   that's the stuff you want to see and I [TS]

00:39:32   think it in all kinds of different kinds [TS]

00:39:34   of nerdom like a hitchhiker's guide [TS]

00:39:35   movie I didn't want to see a linear to [TS]

00:39:38   our version of like the first book I [TS]

00:39:41   wanted to see them put as many details [TS]

00:39:43   as possible from where i could think i [TS]

00:39:45   could recognize as oh ok the little-seen [TS]

00:39:47   that actually came from the radio series [TS]

00:39:49   of it was series a later series because [TS]

00:39:51   there because there's a there's a there [TS]

00:39:54   are these two clones there a clone an [TS]

00:39:56   anticyclone the way the complicated [TS]

00:39:57   woman is called a little school the [TS]

00:39:59   other one called was called win atilla [TS]

00:40:00   and nobody knows nobody cares but this [TS]

00:40:03   is the level at [TS]

00:40:04   which I want to be entertained by a [TS]

00:40:06   hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy movie [TS]

00:40:08   and this is the equivalent of I just [TS]

00:40:10   need to go to the liquor store get [TS]

00:40:12   whatever is really really cheap and [TS]

00:40:14   high-end content and drink five gallons [TS]

00:40:16   of it before I can face by day that's [TS]

00:40:18   how deeply I've got into this rabbit [TS]

00:40:21   hole of fandom on this thing you know I [TS]

00:40:24   I don't I I just don't feel like the [TS]

00:40:26   added material and granted I've only [TS]

00:40:27   seen the originals the one time in the [TS]

00:40:29   theater so I haven't done a an in-depth [TS]

00:40:31   look but they're marked the scenes that [TS]

00:40:33   are added extended are marked in the DVD [TS]

00:40:36   liner notes and you know to me it felt [TS]

00:40:38   like they had a lot of interesting quiet [TS]

00:40:41   character scenes and scenes about things [TS]

00:40:44   that that were not either they they cut [TS]

00:40:47   out because they needed to have the plot [TS]

00:40:49   have its arc for the version that all [TS]

00:40:52   along was short enough to be shown it in [TS]

00:40:54   a movie theater it's the types of many [TS]

00:40:56   more icebergs and I'm that's night right [TS]

00:40:59   but but it adds a richness to me and as [TS]

00:41:01   somebody who hasn't you read the book [TS]

00:41:03   once and does not consider myself a Lord [TS]

00:41:05   of the Rings fan by any stretch of the [TS]

00:41:07   imagination to me i prefer those [TS]

00:41:09   additions because i like dipping into [TS]

00:41:11   the those things i like those quiet [TS]

00:41:13   moments and and that richness that adds [TS]

00:41:15   to it in a way that a in my mind makes [TS]

00:41:18   them better movies it also turns it from [TS]

00:41:20   being a series of really long movies [TS]

00:41:22   into like I said into almost like a [TS]

00:41:23   miniseries and it may just be that it [TS]

00:41:26   plays better for me and it works for me [TS]

00:41:28   in that scenario but some of the stuff [TS]

00:41:30   that they added you know in in an even [TS]

00:41:31   fellowship of the ring [TS]

00:41:33   there's some quiet there's some hot [TS]

00:41:34   extra hot stuff and then there's some [TS]

00:41:36   some choir moments later on when they [TS]

00:41:39   when they get to to Rivendell and it you [TS]

00:41:43   know it's i'm not i'm not sitting there [TS]

00:41:44   going oh [TS]

00:41:45   finally I get the name of that that [TS]

00:41:47   thing in elvish it's it's not that it's [TS]

00:41:49   more like i like i like seeing a little [TS]

00:41:50   bit more of this world as part of my [TS]

00:41:52   eleventh hour journey you know the thing [TS]

00:41:54   that got me though is for all that with [TS]

00:41:55   the extended edition in the main film [TS]

00:41:57   there are some significant emissions to [TS]

00:41:59   the scouring of the shower is where the [TS]

00:42:01   most powerful parts of lord of the rings [TS]

00:42:02   because it brings everything home it [TS]

00:42:04   brings it to earth [TS]

00:42:05   it's the end of the tail i know there [TS]

00:42:07   are so many endings the movies it's true [TS]

00:42:09   in the book as well I demand one more [TS]

00:42:12   and that's the death of Saruman is [TS]

00:42:14   have cast away in the books in the movie [TS]

00:42:16   star marks or dies it's the Saruman [TS]

00:42:18   scene is even not i think played nearly [TS]

00:42:20   as well that's a very cinematic scene in [TS]

00:42:22   the book and that played as well the [TS]

00:42:24   scouring the shower is very cinematic I [TS]

00:42:26   think critical in many ways to the [TS]

00:42:28   conclusion of the book and what happens [TS]

00:42:30   then taking back their own lives [TS]

00:42:32   changing identity and it submitted [TS]

00:42:34   yeah it's just you know you're like they [TS]

00:42:35   go home and sit in the bar like this [TS]

00:42:37   romantic like all come all talk and tom [TS]

00:42:40   bombadil who by the way is it i think is [TS]

00:42:43   one of the worst things in the book and [TS]

00:42:44   so I was happy that they took that part [TS]

00:42:45   out but I love Tom Bombadil you will see [TS]

00:42:48   a bunch of you who said so far that you [TS]

00:42:50   don't like long things you didn't like [TS]

00:42:52   the long book and he thought it was like [TS]

00:42:53   slogging through mud the movies that you [TS]

00:42:55   alone I like the long book I read all [TS]

00:42:57   thousand pages roger ebert said the most [TS]

00:43:00   perfect thing possible that no-good [TS]

00:43:02   movie is long enough no bad movie [TS]

00:43:04   shorten the length is we could do with [TS]

00:43:06   it but you said his head be it like the [TS]

00:43:08   reading the books was like a slogging [TS]

00:43:10   through mud knows it [TS]

00:43:11   I i guess i get along it's because [TS]

00:43:13   they're slow I know but I'm not [TS]

00:43:15   successfully since it's the disc the [TS]

00:43:17   density i know i can relate to that i [TS]

00:43:20   can tell you that in the books I see it [TS]

00:43:21   and I mean I despite the fact that I [TS]

00:43:23   don't read very quickly lot most of my [TS]

00:43:25   favorite books are more than a thousand [TS]

00:43:27   pages and there's something about just [TS]

00:43:29   the length in and of itself like the [TS]

00:43:31   fact that it's slow pace that it's [TS]

00:43:32   boring that it's like a lot like that [TS]

00:43:35   the experience of reading Lord of the [TS]

00:43:36   Rings has that feeling to me of like I [TS]

00:43:39   want it to be just long and leisurely in [TS]

00:43:42   casual and why is that not boring what's [TS]

00:43:44   the line between long and lean casual [TS]

00:43:46   and detailed and and mind-numbingly [TS]

00:43:48   boring i don't know i don't know why [TS]

00:43:50   what causes it to cross the line but [TS]

00:43:51   that's how Lord of the Rings feels to me [TS]

00:43:53   as I want it to be just a very long [TS]

00:43:55   thing with lots of details that takes [TS]

00:43:57   its time with you want to be rich and [TS]

00:43:59   interesting well even though I said that [TS]

00:44:01   like they were there adding it you know [TS]

00:44:03   that the scenes in movies didn't make it [TS]

00:44:05   Marco here and just made more holes if [TS]

00:44:07   given the choice of which 1i wanna watch [TS]

00:44:09   I wanna watch the extended because of [TS]

00:44:10   the very least what they do is add a [TS]

00:44:12   little tiny tiny bit of that feeling [TS]

00:44:14   from the books then some Down long very [TS]

00:44:17   long sort of you know it's taking its [TS]

00:44:19   time getting where it's going it's not [TS]

00:44:20   in a rush is not trying to be a [TS]

00:44:22   three-act play it's like 9,000 discs [TS]

00:44:24   yes you know haha [TS]

00:44:27   that's like face like photoshop slip is [TS]

00:44:29   feasting on five hatch and swap is what [TS]

00:44:31   was installing Lord of the Rings ninety [TS]

00:44:33   percent on it doesn't make for a better [TS]

00:44:35   movie but it does give me a little taste [TS]

00:44:37   of that feeling that I liked from the [TS]

00:44:39   book and that's how I judge these movies [TS]

00:44:40   are apart from government moviemaking [TS]

00:44:42   which is there are many things to [TS]

00:44:43   complain about their I say ok there's [TS]

00:44:45   something in the book that I like in you [TS]

00:44:47   know and helms deep something I like [TS]

00:44:48   about Hobbiton something I like about [TS]

00:44:50   gum you know that sticks out in my mind [TS]

00:44:52   did they get extract like ring out any [TS]

00:44:55   of that thing and put it in this movie [TS]

00:44:57   even if it's unlike an accurate way and [TS]

00:44:59   you know the surrounding stuff is dumb [TS]

00:45:01   you know whatever it is that you're [TS]

00:45:02   thinking of did they get any of that in [TS]

00:45:05   here so like the Helms Deep battles a [TS]

00:45:06   good example I get a little bit of the [TS]

00:45:08   same feeling from reading the homestead [TS]

00:45:10   battle as i did in the homestead battle [TS]

00:45:12   in the movie so good job there right and [TS]

00:45:14   so that's what I that's how i have two [TS]

00:45:15   judges look at every one of these scenes [TS]

00:45:17   i really hate that Tolkien left out the [TS]

00:45:19   part where legolas slides on the shield [TS]

00:45:21   that was not gonna hear that feeling is [TS]

00:45:23   not a feeling that I get no but notice [TS]

00:45:26   that's a that's of the steps of mistake [TS]

00:45:28   always awesome i'll stand I will defend [TS]

00:45:30   it to the dead very says like a [TS]

00:45:31   hoverboard in middle earth that is why [TS]

00:45:34   it is awesome [TS]

00:45:35   I want to get back on something John [TS]

00:45:36   said there which is about pacing because [TS]

00:45:38   I this is this is something that I've [TS]

00:45:39   been thinking too which is what you want [TS]

00:45:42   it you know you don't if you're running [TS]

00:45:44   a marathon you don't start sprinting [TS]

00:45:46   right you don't because it's a long it's [TS]

00:45:49   a different kind of race and a thousand [TS]

00:45:51   page novel in small print is a lot of [TS]

00:45:54   words and it's not a short story and [TS]

00:45:56   it's not a short novel and when I talk [TS]

00:45:58   about watching the extended editions and [TS]

00:46:01   watching them over six nights that's the [TS]

00:46:03   mindset that I min is I'm happy for it [TS]

00:46:06   to be as leisurely as it wants to be and [TS]

00:46:10   for me Ted for them to add the scenes in [TS]

00:46:12   that add to the richness but don't [TS]

00:46:14   necessarily resolve the you know the [TS]

00:46:16   plot holes or anything like that they [TS]

00:46:18   just add to the written richness of this [TS]

00:46:20   world that I'm immersing myself in for [TS]

00:46:21   the better part of a week and that you [TS]

00:46:25   know to me that is the difference here [TS]

00:46:26   is that is that I'm not expecting this [TS]

00:46:29   it's that many serious thing i'm not [TS]

00:46:31   expecting this to be a movie and holding [TS]

00:46:33   it to the the judgment of a three-hour [TS]

00:46:35   movie because it's not it's this [TS]

00:46:37   sprawling 11-hour thing we're in [TS]

00:46:40   look for him you know it's a gigantic [TS]

00:46:42   tone and anything I ding the movie for [TS]

00:46:45   when it's not long enough like in the [TS]

00:46:46   book the feeling when they're going [TS]

00:46:47   through more doors just like this [TS]

00:46:49   totally blasted landscape and they have [TS]

00:46:51   no water and just miserable and the [TS]

00:46:52   movie I'm like the way that was like [TS]

00:46:54   three scenes they're already through [TS]

00:46:55   that shouldn't be much longer that's it [TS]

00:46:57   should be just an incredible slog of [TS]

00:46:58   just torture is starving to death [TS]

00:47:01   I'm not knowing how they're gonna and I [TS]

00:47:02   did it like only what was that ok was 45 [TS]

00:47:04   minutes but still it's not you want you [TS]

00:47:06   want all of order to basically be the [TS]

00:47:08   entirety of lawrence of arabia inserted [TS]

00:47:10   within return again at least like with [TS]

00:47:13   that is again I get judging section is [TS]

00:47:15   about how do I feel when I'm reading [TS]

00:47:16   about Sam and Frodo going through more I [TS]

00:47:17   feel like it's miserable i feel like [TS]

00:47:19   it's hopeless and like did they captured [TS]

00:47:21   in the movie [TS]

00:47:22   not really because they were too busy [TS]

00:47:23   with the Golem stuff which is fun and [TS]

00:47:25   everything but like it they had other [TS]

00:47:26   things they kept jumping back and forth [TS]

00:47:28   to what's going on it you know he's in [TS]

00:47:29   the book they do also not jump back and [TS]

00:47:32   forth as much they have like here's a [TS]

00:47:33   solid thing of salmon from over here is [TS]

00:47:34   a solid thing what's going on with with [TS]

00:47:36   every day with the airborne endeavor but [TS]

00:47:38   they can't you can't do that movie right [TS]

00:47:40   now and then but but that's what I'm [TS]

00:47:42   saying like it was in certain aspects i [TS]

00:47:44   feel like they did didn't it the movie [TS]

00:47:46   wasn't long enough and and this is the [TS]

00:47:47   only way i can judge this movie because [TS]

00:47:49   like I watch them and I enjoy them at [TS]

00:47:51   all looking for here is did you [TS]

00:47:53   reproduce that think good feeling that i [TS]

00:47:56   liked about the movie in some form [TS]

00:47:57   because cocaine it doesn't hold together [TS]

00:47:59   coherently and the moviemaking is very [TS]

00:48:01   hand fisted and there are many things [TS]

00:48:02   not to like about it but I like the [TS]

00:48:05   world so much the reason i like watching [TS]

00:48:08   movies like yeah they do occasionally [TS]

00:48:10   hit those little notes like oh yeah I [TS]

00:48:12   like that [TS]

00:48:12   Oh yep I like that I like that from the [TS]

00:48:14   book i like that but if I had never read [TS]

00:48:16   the books and just watch these movies i [TS]

00:48:17   would be like all my god I'm never [TS]

00:48:19   watching us music here's a radical [TS]

00:48:21   proposal [TS]

00:48:22   like what if they were able to buy a [TS]

00:48:24   libretto form of this movie just like an [TS]

00:48:27   opera like it's a it's like the operas [TS]

00:48:29   are often like their hours and hours [TS]

00:48:30   longer a different language their [TS]

00:48:32   stories from a different time and a [TS]

00:48:34   different country and so it's not [TS]

00:48:36   considered cheating that there is a [TS]

00:48:37   printed libretto that will say here is [TS]

00:48:39   the story that you're about to see and [TS]

00:48:41   in the form of like six pages you can [TS]

00:48:43   definitely follow so that you kind of [TS]

00:48:45   know how you certainly know how it's [TS]

00:48:46   gonna end you know what the major story [TS]

00:48:48   beats are and I can sort of just sit [TS]

00:48:50   back and relax and enjoy the scenery the [TS]

00:48:51   costumes and the performances [TS]

00:48:53   what if they were a version of that like [TS]

00:48:55   for the lord of the rings movie where [TS]

00:48:56   the same land in 10 never talk about [TS]

00:48:59   anything i'm just talking about what if [TS]

00:49:01   you were to summarize it in here so [TS]

00:49:02   they're 12 years a 12-page version of [TS]

00:49:04   this movie that will just show this walk [TS]

00:49:06   you through beat for beat for beat not [TS]

00:49:07   even like subhead here the characters [TS]

00:49:09   but the studio to retell the story in [TS]

00:49:11   the form of 12 pages i think it's called [TS]

00:49:13   the the wikipedia entry no no i don't i [TS]

00:49:17   don't want to go by the wicked ride out [TS]

00:49:19   of this that I think the key is this [TS]

00:49:20   cannot be written by anybody who has [TS]

00:49:22   read the book more than once and I don't [TS]

00:49:25   want people say we put it away i didn't [TS]

00:49:27   want to tell me what happens in inhales [TS]

00:49:29   deep okay first of all it's a it's I if [TS]

00:49:32   if you have that sort of orientation [TS]

00:49:34   around you even reading the books that [TS]

00:49:36   would it would allow you to sort of let [TS]

00:49:38   go of this idea of I I I can't keep [TS]

00:49:42   track of all these names i keep can I [TS]

00:49:44   can't keep track of all these locations [TS]

00:49:45   you can just sort of enjoy the story as [TS]

00:49:48   it's being on unfolded and one of the [TS]

00:49:50   problems with is that at least like in [TS]

00:49:52   the star trek universe with someone like [TS]

00:49:54   cock like okay he's a Klingon I don't [TS]

00:49:58   know what he's after but I know that [TS]

00:49:59   he's a Klingon where is ok to do is a [TS]

00:50:01   Boromir floor mirror just dominoed ears [TS]

00:50:04   like okay those are four different [TS]

00:50:05   species but they're all essentially [TS]

00:50:07   daughters and sons of the same traveling [TS]

00:50:09   salesman for from two generations ago [TS]

00:50:11   because they have the same root of the [TS]

00:50:12   last name and this goes back to all the [TS]

00:50:14   things my wife is confused about right [TS]

00:50:15   there is but there's Rohan and there's [TS]

00:50:18   gone door and they're all humans but the [TS]

00:50:20   some of them ride horses and some of [TS]

00:50:22   them don't ride horses i found myself [TS]

00:50:24   explaining this stuff to my son is [TS]

00:50:27   watching it pause the movie frequently [TS]

00:50:28   to explain but it's like I feel like you [TS]

00:50:30   can't you can't always say like ok [TS]

00:50:32   they're in Gondor III what i would do is [TS]

00:50:34   i would go to the map that hopefully [TS]

00:50:35   comes with the expenditure I just want [TS]

00:50:37   to watch a movie and say look here's [TS]

00:50:39   here's gone door here's more so like [TS]

00:50:41   that's why they're worried about as [TS]

00:50:42   they're always there right by Gondor [TS]

00:50:44   Rohan's up there but then when they got [TS]

00:50:45   attacked they didn't come and say it [TS]

00:50:47   like I have to explain the geopolitics [TS]

00:50:48   otherwise like I didn't think an [TS]

00:50:50   eight-year-old could understand why are [TS]

00:50:52   these humans mad at each other like you [TS]

00:50:54   see it's because of where they live and [TS]

00:50:55   because of alien that he's the steward [TS]

00:50:57   he's not the king but the king is gone [TS]

00:50:59   and who is the guy was related to the [TS]

00:51:01   King you know that tiny throne tiny [TS]

00:51:03   throne when Mordor assassinated arch [TS]

00:51:06   like Franz Ferdinand yes be seriously [TS]

00:51:08   does happen otherwise like I mean you [TS]

00:51:09   can have a war movie I guess without [TS]

00:51:11   knowing what war one happen but this is [TS]

00:51:12   like the whole point of this is like [TS]

00:51:14   it's like geopolitics and how can you [TS]

00:51:16   how can you understand what's at stake [TS]

00:51:18   in these battles and why these people [TS]

00:51:19   are mad at each other and they do put [TS]

00:51:20   that in their performances of like who's [TS]

00:51:22   mad at who for what reason because of [TS]

00:51:23   who's dead relatives and so on [TS]

00:51:25   even all the way back to solder which [TS]

00:51:26   they were nice enough to put in the end [TS]

00:51:28   the beginning of the movies like you [TS]

00:51:29   know I'd argue this one advantage of the [TS]

00:51:31   movie over the book is it opens with an [TS]

00:51:32   actual explanation of the scope of [TS]

00:51:34   what's going on and why everyone's so [TS]

00:51:36   freaked out because the books you're [TS]

00:51:38   like things are great in the Shire but [TS]

00:51:40   yeah it takes a long time to get to a [TS]

00:51:42   point while you're what anyone is [TS]

00:51:43   worried about anything in that you know [TS]

00:51:45   tool suspense is why the fellowship you [TS]

00:51:46   know you got the deed all these [TS]

00:51:47   intervals and greater and greater evil [TS]

00:51:49   you meet the evil trees in the tone the [TS]

00:51:52   river you meet the evil better right [TS]

00:51:54   spots from the perspective of the [TS]

00:51:55   hobbits are the ringwraiths and then you [TS]

00:51:57   build like okay there's actually [TS]

00:51:59   somebody even more evil than all of that [TS]

00:52:01   and that's what this all come about in [TS]

00:52:02   the movie i think it's actually find [TS]

00:52:04   that they set the scene by saying [TS]

00:52:05   alright there's this dude he's super [TS]

00:52:07   evil we got rid of him sorta and then [TS]

00:52:10   things got messed up so go and can we [TS]

00:52:12   get some agreement that the best part of [TS]

00:52:14   all three of these movies is the opening [TS]

00:52:16   of fellowship where they do the [TS]

00:52:18   backstory is not the best what the best [TS]

00:52:21   part of all if you had to pick what is [TS]

00:52:22   the best part of all three of these [TS]

00:52:24   movies i would say it's the opening the [TS]

00:52:26   opening sequence for the shows are on [TS]

00:52:27   mostly because there's no dialogue [TS]

00:52:29   it's also where you know they cut to it [TS]

00:52:31   later because they have they have l ron [TS]

00:52:34   is recalling i was there three thousand [TS]

00:52:37   years ago you know they cut back to that [TS]

00:52:39   Senior like this would actually also be [TS]

00:52:41   a good movie when I'm not because i [TS]

00:52:43   would start talking and have music cue [TS]

00:52:45   musical cues and three good movies glad [TS]

00:52:48   well I want to defend I want defend as a [TS]

00:52:51   whole i really like fellowship of the [TS]

00:52:53   ring is my favorite of the three [TS]

00:52:55   I think largely because the scope is [TS]

00:52:57   smaller it feels more personal feels [TS]

00:53:00   more intimate as a movie it has some of [TS]

00:53:01   my favorite John was driving the the [TS]

00:53:04   filmmaking as ham-fisted I think [TS]

00:53:06   Fellowship has the best of any of it [TS]

00:53:08   because it's not Peter Jackson going [TS]

00:53:10   over the top there are little shots i [TS]

00:53:12   want my favorite shot the entire trilogy [TS]

00:53:14   is the when they are the first time they [TS]

00:53:16   leave the Shire and the end up [TS]

00:53:17   on the road and Jackson uses the old [TS]

00:53:20   Alfred Hitchcock's vertigo you know [TS]

00:53:22   pan-arab zoom in trade dolly back shot [TS]

00:53:25   on the road and get that need effect i [TS]

00:53:28   love it but i would call him and fisted [TS]

00:53:29   you got it got it other than know that [TS]

00:53:31   it's beautiful that's great it's a great [TS]

00:53:33   moment it's a great shot [TS]

00:53:36   I think fellowship is my least favorite [TS]

00:53:38   except for that one opening what the [TS]

00:53:39   rest of it because I you know everything [TS]

00:53:41   else starts to blur together after a [TS]

00:53:42   while Holmes deep looks a lot like the [TS]

00:53:44   battling Gondor you know it's really [TS]

00:53:46   like other counting how many guys they [TS]

00:53:48   killed and he's got a bit of his helmet [TS]

00:53:51   on students good filmmaking is focused [TS]

00:53:53   they build up to that battle even if you [TS]

00:53:55   forgotten why they're even battling you [TS]

00:53:57   understand that there if they have [TS]

00:53:59   decided that their best option is to [TS]

00:54:01   retreat to somewhere where there's no [TS]

00:54:02   escape and that the bad people are [TS]

00:54:04   coming and you you know it's a good bill [TS]

00:54:07   up [TS]

00:54:07   it's a completely different movie though [TS]

00:54:09   because i think i think two towers and [TS]

00:54:11   and return the King are very clearly war [TS]

00:54:13   movies [TS]

00:54:14   whereas the fellowship of the ring feels [TS]

00:54:15   like an adventure but i'm with you and [TS]

00:54:18   that once they get to return of the king [TS]

00:54:20   the stakes for Gondor it's like they [TS]

00:54:22   really care what's happening in Gondor [TS]

00:54:24   as much more shows deep it felt more [TS]

00:54:25   personal like oh I know those guys who [TS]

00:54:28   are holed up there and they've got [TS]

00:54:29   problems and it looks like everything's [TS]

00:54:30   against them in here comes Gandalf and [TS]

00:54:32   yeah you know like I had the correct [TS]

00:54:33   feeling by return of the king was like [TS]

00:54:35   it's too much cgi for me i really like [TS]

00:54:37   the earlier movies where the battles [TS]

00:54:39   feel like you've got the fellowship [TS]

00:54:40   right and it really feels like there's [TS]

00:54:42   these nine guys right and they're trying [TS]

00:54:44   to get over you know basically to Mordor [TS]

00:54:47   but dr. village Peter Jackson's [TS]

00:54:49   filmmaking skills i know that filmed all [TS]

00:54:51   at once but the filmmaking skills and [TS]

00:54:53   fellowship it seems like he was just [TS]

00:54:54   still finding his legs and it feels [TS]

00:54:56   almost like it was made by like the [TS]

00:54:58   b-team I don't agree because i feel like [TS]

00:55:00   it you know if you look at his earlier [TS]

00:55:02   work it's very it's very much similar in [TS]

00:55:05   the same way that if you look at like [TS]

00:55:06   Sam Raimi directing spider-man it really [TS]

00:55:08   he's got a lot of stuff that technically [TS]

00:55:09   you know resemble stuff he did in [TS]

00:55:11   earlier movies you know there's there's [TS]

00:55:13   something distinctive about the way that [TS]

00:55:15   Peter Jackson did it and it's odd i was [TS]

00:55:17   just listening the other day because we [TS]

00:55:18   talked about this a little bit and one [TS]

00:55:19   of our previous podcast you know that he [TS]

00:55:21   has such an eclectic history coming you [TS]

00:55:23   know film background before he gets into [TS]

00:55:25   Lord of the Rings but it seems to me [TS]

00:55:27   that some of his yeah he did some sloppy [TS]

00:55:30   stuff earlier on but it [TS]

00:55:31   I think part of that still continues [TS]

00:55:32   with a meat but you could argue the same [TS]

00:55:34   thing about Lucas and star wars with all [TS]

00:55:36   the you know the wipes and stuff that [TS]

00:55:37   was very much nineteen-thirties yeah [TS]

00:55:39   that's kinda ham-fisted two depending on [TS]

00:55:41   how you look at it i think you know that [TS]

00:55:43   was an oh my gosh that's what does like [TS]

00:55:44   quentin tarantino doing grindhouse yeah [TS]

00:55:46   but i think i think this would be I [TS]

00:55:47   think it without a lot of the stuff that [TS]

00:55:49   makes it Peter Jackson and some of it I [TS]

00:55:51   find a little bit silly but i think [TS]

00:55:53   without all of it would have been very [TS]

00:55:54   sterile and that i think would have [TS]

00:55:57   bothered me more than something that's [TS]

00:55:58   occasionally a bit kitschy some people [TS]

00:56:01   do say it is it feels a little generic I [TS]

00:56:02   don't totally agree with that but I see [TS]

00:56:04   where they're coming from like they you [TS]

00:56:06   know generic warrior guide generic [TS]

00:56:08   health guy like I don't think it is [TS]

00:56:09   generic I think they aren't designed [TS]

00:56:10   right but that's not Jackson as much as [TS]

00:56:13   this the source material again being [TS]

00:56:14   kind of archetypal I know like I had [TS]

00:56:16   that's that I think that's basically [TS]

00:56:18   what they're seeing and they don't [TS]

00:56:19   realize like this is the original [TS]

00:56:20   reminds me of the famous penny arcade [TS]

00:56:22   comic that no one on this podcast will [TS]

00:56:24   know what I'm everything so I don't [TS]

00:56:25   represent but someone in the audience [TS]

00:56:26   will wear gave talks about what was it [TS]

00:56:31   warhammer and world of warcraft anyway [TS]

00:56:33   we'll put in the show notes [TS]

00:56:34   oh yeah that's a good one I have no idea [TS]

00:56:36   what Germans had two things I want to [TS]

00:56:37   measure one is it if we talk about [TS]

00:56:40   confusion and and stopping to explain [TS]

00:56:43   what's going on it's not like I don't do [TS]

00:56:45   that for Game of Thrones to first off [TS]

00:56:46   I'm happy and I'm gonna pin this one on [TS]

00:56:49   one talking having your most obvious [TS]

00:56:53   present bad guy be named sorry man [TS]

00:56:56   and then having your other bigger bad [TS]

00:56:59   guy named Sauron is really confusing [TS]

00:57:02   because it's like which one is he are [TS]

00:57:04   they the same are they different it's [TS]

00:57:06   like they're practically the same name [TS]

00:57:07   so that is a that that's also super [TS]

00:57:10   super confusing and in terms of movies i [TS]

00:57:14   actually think i prefer the two towers [TS]

00:57:17   because i really like that at the Helms [TS]

00:57:19   Deep scenes and I really enjoy the [TS]

00:57:21   scenes with with the Gimli and legolas [TS]

00:57:26   i'm going to get all the names out and [TS]

00:57:29   aragorn when they're kinda on the road [TS]

00:57:31   chasing the orcs but that also leads to [TS]

00:57:34   one of the big problems structurally [TS]

00:57:36   with the with the series of movies which [TS]

00:57:38   is the Fellowship's not around very much [TS]

00:57:40   there around four part of the end of the [TS]

00:57:42   first movie and then there's the the [TS]

00:57:43   breaking of the fellowship [TS]

00:57:44   and then in the second movie sam and [TS]

00:57:48   frodo go in this bizarre holding pattern [TS]

00:57:51   where they go over to they go through [TS]

00:57:53   the swamps to the Blackgate I have to [TS]

00:57:55   just circle of the airport yet they are [TS]

00:57:56   they're literally in the holding pattern [TS]

00:57:58   right into Mordor holding pattern for an [TS]

00:58:00   awesome fuel before the crash [TS]

00:58:02   it's just so they get so they can close [TS]

00:58:03   out the movie and say hey look remember [TS]

00:58:05   us we're gonna still go on to that place [TS]

00:58:06   hi guys [TS]

00:58:07   they could they could not be they could [TS]

00:58:09   literally not be in the second movie and [TS]

00:58:12   it wouldn't have any impact their [TS]

00:58:14   they're barely anyway I think there's [TS]

00:58:15   some good there's some good character [TS]

00:58:17   stuff that goes on but i agree there are [TS]

00:58:18   not wise not much happens with that [TS]

00:58:20   exact date but that's kind of John's [TS]

00:58:22   point like they're just walking that's [TS]

00:58:24   what they're doing admit that was it [TS]

00:58:26   that was the mechanics of having three [TS]

00:58:27   movies right but it makes you feel like [TS]

00:58:29   you're getting jerked around because [TS]

00:58:30   they're not only are they walking there [TS]

00:58:32   like walking and then walking back right [TS]

00:58:34   by the end we're back at the river and [TS]

00:58:37   that's what are we doing here you like [TS]

00:58:39   it it's like like one of those are [TS]

00:58:41   family circus cartoons where Billy's [TS]

00:58:44   like that around the neighborhood with [TS]

00:58:45   the dotted line stopped and had a [TS]

00:58:48   sandwich more elegant bread up to its [TS]

00:58:50   credit though the movies the movies [TS]

00:58:52   scenes about Frodo and Sam walking [TS]

00:58:54   around are pretty much just as boring as [TS]

00:58:56   the book their big splash having read [TS]

00:58:57   the book so many times I have to skip [TS]

00:58:59   over most of book five of six like I [TS]

00:59:02   just going alright I don't none of this [TS]

00:59:04   adds anything to me when you say that [TS]

00:59:06   you watched a movie and you read a book [TS]

00:59:08   it usually means you watch the whole [TS]

00:59:10   movie and read the whole this whole idea [TS]

00:59:11   that you say i watch the movie but I [TS]

00:59:13   fast forward to our spot that's not [TS]

00:59:15   actually watching moving freely [TS]

00:59:16   technically all you wanted someone [TS]

00:59:18   associated a certain number times now [TS]

00:59:20   you're being silly if you if I've read [TS]

00:59:21   the books ten times now I'm not saying [TS]

00:59:23   there's anything shameful about skipping [TS]

00:59:25   and I'm just saying you don't say that [TS]

00:59:26   you watch the movie again if you fast [TS]

00:59:28   far and you can't skip parts i mean yes [TS]

00:59:30   you can because you can you can presume [TS]

00:59:32   you know you know what's gonna happen [TS]

00:59:33   it's tedious I don't need a bunch of [TS]

00:59:35   reading again unless it serves the part [TS]

00:59:37   that this is this is going to be sort of [TS]

00:59:39   one of those fundamentals arguments so i [TS]

00:59:41   think we have people that know i think [TS]

00:59:43   it is it's just some it's just semantics [TS]

00:59:45   it's like all arguments i think you [TS]

00:59:47   could argue that if you've read the book [TS]

00:59:48   ten times and then you and then you [TS]

00:59:50   leave through it and eleventh you [TS]

00:59:52   haven't read it in 11th time you've [TS]

00:59:54   lived through it [TS]

00:59:55   parts of it the wall [TS]

00:59:56   working parts of the walking walking [TS]

00:59:59   parts are boring [TS]

00:59:59   parts are boring [TS]

01:00:00   print as well as in the movie is the pie [TS]

01:00:01   looked at I've looked at the map on the [TS]

01:00:03   endpapers a lot there so I said that I [TS]

01:00:05   like i said that i like the the the two [TS]

01:00:07   towers but one of the reasons i like the [TS]

01:00:08   two towers is because of almost it's [TS]

01:00:11   like despite sam and frodo because it's [TS]

01:00:13   a manfrotto and got one column whose [TS]

01:00:15   interesting but they're like there's a [TS]

01:00:17   whole half-hour half the movie is a [TS]

01:00:19   misunderstanding where they say take us [TS]

01:00:21   into the black gate he goes oh I didn't [TS]

01:00:23   know you meant take me to mourn all [TS]

01:00:24   right that's a totally different way and [TS]

01:00:26   then they well sucks for you hobbits [TS]

01:00:29   come with me and and then they get how [TS]

01:00:32   might you know that and that's a problem [TS]

01:00:33   and it's a problem of the source [TS]

01:00:35   material its problem how you want to [TS]

01:00:36   make three movies and you have to give [TS]

01:00:38   it give it a plot but it's also just a [TS]

01:00:40   problem that this this is a series of [TS]

01:00:42   different stories and the most [TS]

01:00:43   interesting stories at least peter [TS]

01:00:45   jackson and and his judgment to a modern [TS]

01:00:48   audience are these battles and armies [TS]

01:00:51   and horses and things like that and the [TS]

01:00:53   idea is it supposed to be juxtaposed [TS]

01:00:55   with this quieter story about Frodo [TS]

01:00:57   struggle with the ring and say I'm [TS]

01:00:58   trying to support him and gollum trying [TS]

01:01:00   to intervene and steal the ring back and [TS]

01:01:02   the problem with that is there's just [TS]

01:01:04   not enough of that to carry the rest of [TS]

01:01:07   the story and so in the second movie you [TS]

01:01:10   know they kind of the kind of vanish and [TS]

01:01:13   you feel like you know it's like those [TS]

01:01:14   middle seasons of lost we're just trying [TS]

01:01:16   to stretch it out we got we're not ready [TS]

01:01:18   yet just keep on stretching it out and [TS]

01:01:20   it's really that part is frustrating and [TS]

01:01:22   you know I i like i like the two towers [TS]

01:01:25   really because photos nowhere near Helms [TS]

01:01:28   team you know things that I judge these [TS]

01:01:30   movies on for my enjoyment is how much [TS]

01:01:32   do I like the thing that the that I [TS]

01:01:37   guess the Saturday the setting for the [TS]

01:01:39   thing how much do I like the setting out [TS]

01:01:40   and you know they made all the wonderful [TS]

01:01:42   practical sets with Hobbiton and shower [TS]

01:01:44   and everything like that but like for [TS]

01:01:46   example rollin I like wherever that is [TS]

01:01:48   New Zealand that was shot i like the [TS]

01:01:50   horses i feel like the wind swept area [TS]

01:01:53   right and I like less the Giant you know [TS]

01:01:56   cg city of Gondor whatever so a lot of a [TS]

01:01:59   lot of my affection for the moon for [TS]

01:02:01   example and fellowship i like them going [TS]

01:02:02   down the river like the big statues with [TS]

01:02:04   your hands up the Glen will know the [TS]

01:02:06   names up little statues are great like [TS]

01:02:08   those parts of the movie like some [TS]

01:02:11   people make fun of my spectacles like it [TS]

01:02:12   was giant [TS]

01:02:13   possibly like all just a bunch of robots [TS]

01:02:14   fighting but there are beautiful places [TS]

01:02:16   in New Zealand that have filmed in this [TS]

01:02:17   movie in a nice way with with very hokey [TS]

01:02:20   music over it but you know right well [TS]

01:02:21   that's what I'm saying about the first [TS]

01:02:23   movies I feel like there is less of that [TS]

01:02:24   elaboration on what is already there and [TS]

01:02:28   looks beautiful i mean even the smaller [TS]

01:02:29   sets things like whether top and a [TS]

01:02:32   Manhattan at the end which is like I [TS]

01:02:34   think my favorite like battle scene in [TS]

01:02:36   the entire movie is Aragorn and against [TS]

01:02:38   all the orcs means they works are really [TS]

01:02:40   crappy by the way they died way too easy [TS]

01:02:43   the reliance on practical effects is [TS]

01:02:46   what the same way that we talked about [TS]

01:02:48   this with you know something like Star [TS]

01:02:49   Wars where the reliance on models over [TS]

01:02:51   the reliance on the cgi stuff which [TS]

01:02:53   seems very solace I think that's to me [TS]

01:02:55   what I really loved about Jackson's [TS]

01:02:57   interpretation was I could easily see [TS]

01:02:59   almost any other director going to be [TS]

01:03:01   like oh well we could make you know [TS]

01:03:03   Giants but whatever that's way too [TS]

01:03:04   expensive we're just gonna we're gonna [TS]

01:03:05   do everything in CGI you know and we'll [TS]

01:03:08   knock it off for half the price [TS]

01:03:09   otherwise the soundstages where the top [TS]

01:03:11   is no good though [TS]

01:03:12   Mickey yeah well whether top prospect of [TS]

01:03:13   making this argument final decade is [TS]

01:03:15   because when the Phantom Menace others [TS]

01:03:17   came out and it was obvious from the [TS]

01:03:19   beginning there it had that green screen [TS]

01:03:21   feel everything about it felt artificial [TS]

01:03:23   they were never interact with real [TS]

01:03:24   objects real places and you juxtapose [TS]

01:03:26   that fellowship came out and it felt [TS]

01:03:28   real i remember one of the actors [TS]

01:03:29   talking about a scene in the mines of [TS]

01:03:31   moria where he's like we're in this room [TS]

01:03:33   and it's like we're in the minds of [TS]

01:03:34   others cameras and stuff i look down the [TS]

01:03:36   floor and there's a piece of paper i [TS]

01:03:38   pick it up and it's covered with [TS]

01:03:39   dwarvish writing it's not they they were [TS]

01:03:42   in a space that was designed to make [TS]

01:03:43   them feel real Andy Serkis way into the [TS]

01:03:45   motion capture was there acting with the [TS]

01:03:47   performance he wasn't it wasn't them [TS]

01:03:49   acting too empty air and they dropped in [TS]

01:03:51   the cgi later they were all in a space [TS]

01:03:53   working together that had real depth and [TS]

01:03:56   character they could work through there [TS]

01:03:58   was a bit actually you know walk a half [TS]

01:04:00   a mile or whatever they were walking 10 [TS]

01:04:02   feet over and over again that's the [TS]

01:04:04   depressing part of these movies is that [TS]

01:04:05   I realized they spent so much money on [TS]

01:04:07   these movies and these are the people [TS]

01:04:09   and people who made these props cared so [TS]

01:04:10   much and yet still I think some of the [TS]

01:04:12   practical sets don't look that good and [TS]

01:04:14   like it because I want him comparing it [TS]

01:04:15   to is the natural beauty New Zealand [TS]

01:04:17   which they didn't have to manufacture [TS]

01:04:18   like those mountains are there right and [TS]

01:04:20   you can fly the helicopter over them in [TS]

01:04:21   the Sun actually sets and it's like boy [TS]

01:04:23   you know you can't buy that and they [TS]

01:04:25   built these awesome sets we did [TS]

01:04:27   best job they could possibly do with all [TS]

01:04:28   this money like they built home Steven [TS]

01:04:30   that sometimes don't like em ory looks a [TS]

01:04:32   little bit like a soundstage guys sorry [TS]

01:04:35   I mean like how much better can they do [TS]

01:04:36   it like a i'm a big proponent of [TS]

01:04:38   technology i feel like you know in 50 [TS]

01:04:40   years you can do the Rings over again [TS]

01:04:42   with CW making her to meet you and John [TS]

01:04:44   will have to invent time machines to go [TS]

01:04:46   back in time build maurya let it age for [TS]

01:04:48   thousands video so they can come back [TS]

01:04:50   and film in there but you can use a [TS]

01:04:51   computer for that I'm saying like it [TS]

01:04:53   like this is the best that they probably [TS]

01:04:54   could have made it given the amount of [TS]

01:04:56   money but still sometimes you like and [TS]

01:04:58   really it what happened what happens is [TS]

01:05:00   be compared to the actual natural beauty [TS]

01:05:02   of a real place on the sets that we [TS]

01:05:04   built can hold up to that that's you [TS]

01:05:05   know the lawrence of arabia factors like [TS]

01:05:07   look at a real desert you know looks [TS]

01:05:09   good on camera but if you have to do [TS]

01:05:11   stuff on a soundstage it looks very [TS]

01:05:12   different so I'm not faulting filmmakers [TS]

01:05:14   for that but it just goes to show like [TS]

01:05:16   when they said this movie these movies [TS]

01:05:17   are unfilmable I kind of see why they [TS]

01:05:19   would say that because they did that [TS]

01:05:21   these people like this is a great team [TS]

01:05:23   they really want to do it but still [TS]

01:05:25   sometimes I'm like now forced [TS]

01:05:27   perspective not quite working for me [TS]

01:05:28   they're all that sets not that great i [TS]

01:05:30   know your props are beautiful you know [TS]

01:05:31   if you listen to the directors [TS]

01:05:32   commentary I've listened to Jackson his [TS]

01:05:34   wife and the the writing partner Kyle I [TS]

01:05:37   became a witch 1i watches a couple years [TS]

01:05:38   ago and there's a part where they're [TS]

01:05:40   they're actually joking there because [TS]

01:05:42   they go through their like yeah they're [TS]

01:05:43   like well for the 25th extraversion 20th [TS]

01:05:46   anniversary edition will change that [TS]

01:05:47   they'll start laughing it's clear they [TS]

01:05:49   have a list of their head of all the [TS]

01:05:50   stuff and different scenes they start [TS]

01:05:52   talking about it and they're not being [TS]

01:05:53   negative but they're being a little ride [TS]

01:05:54   and they're like oh yeah we wanted to [TS]

01:05:56   look like that we couldn't like after [TS]

01:05:58   the 25th anniversary edition so you know [TS]

01:06:00   they've got like a shot list of what [TS]

01:06:02   they're going to do with the technology [TS]

01:06:03   is new with rendering is a thousand [TS]

01:06:05   times again they're going to insert [TS]

01:06:06   hayden christensen as one of those [TS]

01:06:08   ghosts Kings lego a shot first man [TS]

01:06:12   damnation Weathertop and jon was talking [TS]

01:06:14   earlier about things that he sees his [TS]

01:06:16   mind when he's reading the book versus [TS]

01:06:18   what was the movie two things in this [TS]

01:06:20   movie matched more closely i think than [TS]

01:06:24   any movie I've seen based on a book [TS]

01:06:27   well other than I guess like watch men [TS]

01:06:29   where they literally took the pages and [TS]

01:06:31   made them the storyboard all when it [TS]

01:06:32   also went to yet when it's a comic books [TS]

01:06:34   all right it's a little bit different [TS]

01:06:35   act but but the the scene where they [TS]

01:06:37   hide under the roots of the tree to get [TS]

01:06:39   off the road [TS]

01:06:40   when the women on school come by is [TS]

01:06:43   exactly how I pictured it when i read [TS]

01:06:45   the book that's also a great scene i [TS]

01:06:47   love that I love everything about the [TS]

01:06:49   beginning when the you know they're [TS]

01:06:50   running away from the rates right nice [TS]

01:06:51   and scary it's very it's very [TS]

01:06:53   atmospheric yeah oh yeah and my kids [TS]

01:06:56   were definitely terrified at that part [TS]

01:06:57   which was good because they're supposed [TS]

01:06:58   to be that's a scalar scary the [TS]

01:07:00   screeching and it is that screeching [TS]

01:07:02   let's know it's not the screeching at [TS]

01:07:03   the sniffing sniffing part only address [TS]

01:07:06   write a lot of me though and Weathertop [TS]

01:07:08   Weathertop actually looks like I thought [TS]

01:07:10   it would be pictured as a soundstage [TS]

01:07:12   know it's a it's a hill with rocks right [TS]

01:07:14   but it was a little high Landry actually [TS]

01:07:16   no one around so that was surprised i [TS]

01:07:18   like so much didn't hit me the right way [TS]

01:07:20   although i love Weathertop how I copped [TS]

01:07:22   a shot now John you mentioned helicopter [TS]

01:07:24   shadow i'm totally with you i'm totally [TS]

01:07:27   with it takes me it takes me out of the [TS]

01:07:28   whole story where I'm like what am I am [TS]

01:07:30   i flying that's a helicopter their legal [TS]

01:07:32   field with a camera in an eagle it fluid [TS]

01:07:34   they take me out of it every time in [TS]

01:07:36   their beautiful shots of the scenery but [TS]

01:07:37   it takes me out of it [TS]

01:07:38   the signal fires is the one time it [TS]

01:07:40   works because then it's actually makes [TS]

01:07:41   sense you're following the signal fire [TS]

01:07:42   but i do like the helicopter shots if [TS]

01:07:44   only because it's like wow they really [TS]

01:07:46   like think how much land they had to [TS]

01:07:48   clear out of the way many people filming [TS]

01:07:51   feel like there's like a hundred miles [TS]

01:07:53   around there's nobody there with these [TS]

01:07:54   six guys impressive and beautiful it [TS]

01:07:56   just takes me out of the out of the [TS]

01:07:58   movie entirely and I think that's a [TS]

01:08:00   helicopter and I do every single time I [TS]

01:08:03   think that's a helicopter in it and it's [TS]

01:08:05   just there's something about it that [TS]

01:08:07   it's ok it's interesting to think about [TS]

01:08:09   like how how we've been programmed by [TS]

01:08:11   previous movies it's like whenever I see [TS]

01:08:13   a movie that's filming on an epic scale [TS]

01:08:15   at some point i'm drawing back on the [TS]

01:08:18   language that I learned like with those [TS]

01:08:19   huge like cinerama like David Lee way [TS]

01:08:23   Lawrence of Arabia from the 16 right and [TS]

01:08:25   like well the heat he didn't have a [TS]

01:08:26   helicopter available he had a huge [TS]

01:08:28   freaking platform they lock the camera [TS]

01:08:29   down on and so at all so he didn't have [TS]

01:08:32   like five lk occasionally had a couple [TS]

01:08:35   thousand extras but rarely could you [TS]

01:08:36   have five thousand extras and monster [TS]

01:08:39   costumes swarming in a formation that is [TS]

01:08:42   really kind really very very good but it [TS]

01:08:45   looks like it's been so nicely tweak to [TS]

01:08:48   make sure that every orc is exactly [TS]

01:08:50   where this creature needs to be and so [TS]

01:08:52   kind of fun [TS]

01:08:53   reminds the reality of it that if he [TS]

01:08:55   just went 2-1 establishing shot this is [TS]

01:08:57   okay by the way huge field of battle [TS]

01:08:58   many things going on you got five so you [TS]

01:09:01   got three seconds to look at album ok [TS]

01:09:03   let's put her down that field of battle [TS]

01:09:04   you'll be able to see likes different [TS]

01:09:06   spots about it because you get with [TS]

01:09:08   either the fourth or fifth or sixth time [TS]

01:09:09   you see that helicopter shot that [TS]

01:09:11   sweeping you know you want to hear that [TS]

01:09:13   yeah yeah okay so I be a mouse I've just [TS]

01:09:17   been caught carried off by a hawk i'm [TS]

01:09:19   about to be desired meeting but I get to [TS]

01:09:21   see you know the hills are new zealand [TS]

01:09:22   before I go okay that's nice nice last [TS]

01:09:24   thing before i die so this is the part [TS]

01:09:27   where we wear like peter jackson i say [TS]

01:09:29   i'm going to split this podcast in two [TS]

01:09:30   perhaps three now too so we're going to [TS]

01:09:34   stop it here we will pick it up in the [TS]

01:09:36   next episode where I hate to say it but [TS]

01:09:39   I think there's going to be a lot of [TS]

01:09:40   wandering around with hobbits and column [TS]

01:09:43   and maybe some battles but in this [TS]

01:09:46   episode III think we're just gonna end [TS]

01:09:48   it here and i'm going to say goodbye for [TS]

01:09:50   now to the members of my fellowship John [TS]

01:09:52   siracusa thank you [TS]

01:09:54   not all those who wander are lost Jason [TS]

01:09:56   please come back next time for more [TS]

01:09:59   wisdom like that i will you promise I do [TS]

01:10:02   ok good Dan Morgan thank you for taking [TS]

01:10:04   half of this journey with me i really [TS]

01:10:07   hope that someday I get compared to [TS]

01:10:09   Boromir wait for it [TS]

01:10:10   Glenn fleischmann thank you for being [TS]

01:10:14   here uh I hope this more elvish in the [TS]

01:10:16   next episode [TS]

01:10:17   Lucien's new video I hope there's the [TS]

01:10:20   last selfish couldn't have said it [TS]

01:10:21   better myself and indian taco [TS]

01:10:24   thank you for being here too as soon as [TS]

01:10:27   this podcast is over I'm gonna have big [TS]

01:10:29   taters big bull Gators baked potatoes [TS]

01:10:33   loaded with butter if i ever get home [TS]

01:10:36   after this broadcast and a nice fat [TS]

01:10:39   Coney until next time when we talked [TS]

01:10:42   about many more Lords many more rings [TS]

01:10:45   Elfie door fee Hobbit 104 not so much [TS]

01:10:50   about hobbit 2 and 3 this is jason l for [TS]

01:10:54   the uncomfortable thanks for listening [TS]

01:10:55   come back we promise we'll talk about [TS]

01:10:57   this more in another episode until then [TS]

01:11:01   goodbye [TS]