127: Walking and Talking
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the incomparable number 127 februari
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2013 I am Dan Morrison him for Jason
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Snell our usual host and today we're
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here to talk about the many works of
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aaron sorkin i'm joined by an all-star
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panel i think we did this joke yesterday
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when are they going to be using the pic
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they keep not showing up and I go with
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you guys we keep on missing my lights we
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have to my state is a state right you
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know this that stage right to my stage
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right serenity Caldwell
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hello folks Lex Friedman who doesn't
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know anything about Aaron Sorkin has
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never seen any of these shows tennis
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balls i have seen everything areas we
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only invited the light shows when you
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haven't actually seen thing I don't
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belong here that I've seen in general
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Carlson a special guest
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I am very excited to talk about any
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Sorkin check out the state you're done
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okay and a a very ill plaguey danfore
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takes who's gonna take a little longer
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contagious but you don't want to use
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this so he says don't get too closely
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don't don't use like you have yeah
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there's a reason we're all sitting far
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away i want to be off the stage but that
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was it was next
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your theme so far as everybody get off
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the stage yeah I know I I really just
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wanted to me up here and then and then
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is to be the best podcast ever Jeff and
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I thought we should have opened this
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podcast with like us walking in through
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a few doors and having gld we have a
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procedure having a religion for this
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really should all be walking we could
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walk during this can be just me there's
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only this must be 20 people here they
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just follow us around
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I mean if we're gonna do we're working I
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mean yeah no absolutely
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i I didn't write any dialogue i don't
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know about you guys but they're my
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writing with a dialogue that starts off
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here now we really need witty dialogue
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sweet deals worried i was working with a
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guy like that
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we have to start using a lot of
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statistics right away Michael
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eighty-seven percent of podcasts that
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try to use with the dialogue find
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seventy percent of the time they're
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unsuccessful of those efforts i'm really
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hoping that that the john bolton sitting
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back there will hold up a sign saying
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America is a terrible country and then
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yeah okay thanks that's good that's good
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and I'm going on to the sharpie
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uh yeah so as we moved you were talking
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about Aaron Sorkin of course who is the
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scribe behind many a TV show in movie
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and play is play right as well as early
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career started out I think I think he
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started out in theatres and then moved
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to keep the film is earliest films
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include malice and alec baldwin in favor
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call about a doctor that's what he's
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really gone back to that one kind of
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moved on but then we have a few good men
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which of course i think was his first
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really big hit started to play right
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with indeed an American president which
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is the west wing season 0 i like to call
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it right it's creepy to watch the
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American president because you're why is
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the president helping up you lazy the
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chief of staff and why is the president
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Leo right this is weird and you know you
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got to Nancy McNally's isn't doing her
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it's crazy Josh Malina doesn't have that
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many lines it's really strange that you
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get and then he comes back in the shows
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a different person later and yeah it's
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very confusing mom got it like so the
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best raise ever click an assistant and
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guess what now you're gonna be the
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president so what what were your entries
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into circuit like what was the first
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thing that you sell by him
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well I didn't realize he was aaron
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sorkin when I was so if you admit the
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fact that he really until last week that
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oh yeah how is aaron sorkin you couldn't
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handle the truth is where exactly I
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always thought it was an American
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president was my entry in there and
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circle but i guess it was a few good men
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damn morning tell me what are your
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thoughts on you
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this is a setup because Lex knows i
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haven't seen you good
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david hasn't we wouldn't it is one of
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only two things that I haven't seen
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Byron circuit analysis have not seen
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malice excuse boom haven't seen anything
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past what was that you're in 1995
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haven't seen anything earlier than 1995
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business has been waiting for like two
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years to have a panel about some reason
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you see the damn war is not you know i
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might wish i had watched it last night
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just to set you up to attend my first
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aaron sorkin movie was the American
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president I saw a few good many years
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later as is my habit but I mean I love
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the American president and interestingly
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enough my wife loves the American
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president to that's one of our three or
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four go to movies we can't think of
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anything else to watch we'll just watch
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that again but she never got into the
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West Wing where I feel like they I mean
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clearly one is much romance comedy or
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the other but I feel like they're still
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very similar it's unusual to me to like
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one and not the other without what you
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get Jeff also i would say probably a few
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good man but again also and not knowing
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that it was aaron sorkin that I think
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for me that getting into the the the
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knowledge that there was an aaron sorkin
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would be the late and beloved sports
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yes when was the best series one of the
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best areas in and there one that really
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had like a strange start because i think
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that was like the first dramedy think
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that's when they it was one of the first
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way that term right it had it had it was
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set up as a 30-minute sitcom very much
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like you know formulaic but it was
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strange because they did they had this
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whole issue with the laugh track where
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the first half of the first season has a
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lap track it gets quieter get why you're
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in choir and it's not because the show
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gets less and less funny the show
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actually gets funnier but it's strange
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because you get a I feel like that was
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part of the reason behind why didn't
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catch on as much because it was on it
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was unconventional at that point and
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interestingly with that laugh track it
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doesn't just get quieter it gets more
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and more infrequently and spars and so
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it's a startling when you hear it and
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with the initially released the DVD
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series they have the laugh track their
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fans complaining they never wanted that
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left right there the first place if you
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buy the DVD set now you'll get it
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laugh track if that's ok we have the
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horrible one with the laugh track yeah i
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think that one but I went upgrade yeah I
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don't know the laugh track to me always
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remind me all the left some really
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nervous and it sounds like they've
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suddenly they've laughed luck walk
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somebody there like laughs damn it left
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this room love this room doesn't have
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left I getting that maybe they're gone
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sure whether or not they're supposed to
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laugh haha well it also had that
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definite feeling of somebody not the
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writers not but not the directors like
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somebody in a board room somewhere was
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like well this is this is a comedy so we
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need to impose this laugh track because
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i don't think any of the the creator's
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wanted it that was like like like
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something from up on my hands anything
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typical studio decisions have white
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community rather than me but I said how
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many 30-minute shows at that point did
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not have a laugh track i mean you're
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talking about primes sitcom time but
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there's something about it that when you
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watch friends at that
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I more or Seinfeld and you heard the
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last track it just you didn't really
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notice it was there but when you watch
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sports night for some reason it is glare
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it's very grading right it was also
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right you're like I don't know if it was
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the first but it was you know a very
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early single-camera comedy single-camera
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yeah it was you know it felt very
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different from other television
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alright we're going now become kind of
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like the standard in a lot of cases
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we've got more and more shows that are
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that single-camera comedy that doesn't
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have a studio audience doesn't have a
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laugh track the late great limited 30
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rock which just ended and number yet so
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I I think he kind of pioneered that but
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in some ways would be television
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audience wasn't quite ready for that
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that level of something that was not
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just about punchline punchline punchline
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ypc didn't really know how to market it
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i mean they were putting it very much i
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remember seeing the original marketing
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with my knees
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it's 99 yeah I'm 92 that they also it's
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in the middle there because there's an
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episode in the second season with a deal
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with y2k that's right we got up
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yes bright yellow you know bright yellow
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papers and everybody's happy and jumping
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up in the air they fell prey to the fact
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that was actually the marketing for all
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of ABC's programs that year that was
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there stick and it didn't want were
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that you know the knock that I here
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against Aaron Sorkin in general for
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people who for whatever reason don't
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like sports night as a good example bad
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people you're right that the challenge
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that happens there i think is that on
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sports night as well on the west wing
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and every other TV show that he's done
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these are characters who take their jobs
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very seriously and on sports let you
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know that the concedes that they're your
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seat watching backstage the makings of a
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SportsCenter style show which too many
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of us i think is probably not the most
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important work one can do / is her
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country but they take it very seriously
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you know when something goes wrong this
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is it's it's extremely high personally
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taking drama for the the characters
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involved on the show and you know on the
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west wing when they're so upset and
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unhappy because you know people are
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shooting at each other in encouragement
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understand that's that there's a reason
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for them to be so upset because you know
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there's death involved but when i was
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learning to understand and he
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accidentally said you understand yeah
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and then and and sports night when
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they're really concerned because maybe
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the game isn't gonna end in time so they
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have to start their broadcast late
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the stakes are very high to them and
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less hi to the audience that i really
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like to show I love sports night but the
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people who I've heard complain about
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that show feel like why are they taking
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this so seriously why are they so so
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concerned I think it's a fair and at the
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same thing happens on studio 60 and and
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someone in the newsroom right that one
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yeah a little closer to exact way I know
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I feel like that is very much true to
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life though because God knows I mean as
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technology journalists we've had plenty
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of times where I has an aaron sorkin a
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show about us
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will get cancelled after half a season
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sadly but I mean we have plenty of days
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when we're running around with our heads
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cut off being like oh god we've got to
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get this in or else everything will go
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down in flames I think a live load of
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trash people don't yet know about the
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new I books but it's it feels like life
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or death at that point and no it's
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definitely not have not getting shot
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having been in the room when all of our
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like why blog coverage crashed it was
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just like we're sitting area that's an
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apple presentation like God so I am it
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is very seriously the people involved
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with professionals is what they do and
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anybody makes it more convincingly and i
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think i was going to take slight
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exception to your comment about the west
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wing vs force night because i feel like
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in later seasons which obviously aren't
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directly aaron sorkin reading seasons
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this is where the law comes in which is
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they think they can make up for the fact
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that it's you know there are problems by
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making them these huge dramatic problems
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like these india and china on the brink
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of war but it doesn't work because it
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has no substance behind it there's no
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subtext or anything it's all just the
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over-the-top that's really annoying haha
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hello but that's expected of me off that
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sorry well I also think that that so
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some of what sports and I did I mean you
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know yet that the the the the words are
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escaping me the topics were sort of you
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know like like small and contained it
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behind the show but they also like
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really tried to push into some other
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things like I remember some storylines
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about we weren't there like a drug
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testing scandal or something that they
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had to report on and they had to you
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know like like do we reveal this
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information or not reveal this
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information and you know for for
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something that was a you know a comedy
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it seemed like he was sort of pushing a
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agendas or you know pushing thoughts
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which I'm sure will probably talk about
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seems to be a short aspect of pushing
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point of view but it seemed like it was
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it was trying to push the boundary there
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even though yeah this is about it a
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sports show right and then you know
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trying to get this little episode they
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deal with a bomb threat
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someone wants to blow up the building
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because some radio host makes it and you
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know insensitive comment I would someone
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want to kill us
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well I mean all of his big TV shows have
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been this is behind the scenes of what
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this business does right
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whether it's the west wing or its sports
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night or two tvs news station or it's a
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studio it's always this is the
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nitty-gritty behind-the-scenes the
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people who do what you see the front of
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them and and I was less interested in
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studio 60 because i didn't really care
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about night clubs but I love sports
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center and so I found ambassador even
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though it wasn't sportscenter it was
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supposed to be right there and I thought
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that was fascinating because of the
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topic and i will and i like i like
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politics policy and politics into the
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West Wing got to me but I do agree that
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I think like if you're not into sports
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center demographic sports night kinda
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was like why do I care about this
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between their i8 I don't fall sports
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almost at all and i'm not really a
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sports fan I don't watch SportsCenter i
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love the wild switch your and aaron
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sorkin finding you'll watch because
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you're so I didn't even know at the time
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I mean that was that and west wing which
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started around the same time I think
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sports i was slightly earlier and then
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season when he was doing bullet once per
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season over web and so I didn't know
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until I start watching both of these
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with this was the same guy
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it was for me was the characters in the
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writing and as someone especially
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someone who's a writer I just I really
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admire his dialogue is great and pacing
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he's got great you know
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masterful dialogue these various witty
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banter things about the infuriating
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thing to me about Aaron Sorkin's talent
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since i don't have it is you know he
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it's not
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first of all I think it's impressive
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that he can whether it's accurate
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accurately depicted or not he makes it
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feel like he knows exactly what it's
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like backstage and sports center or by
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the scenes in the white house or in a
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newsroom like it feels like he's done
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his research with the possible exception
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of studio 60 and then when you later on
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that it's not just his characters
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dialogue his character soft like many of
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us wish we were able to speak
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extemporaneously and oftentimes can take
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out some of the believability i don't
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think most people have as many
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statistics and factories that their
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instant recall as the characters are
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sort of show but I enjoy that
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fictionalization anyway but it's the way
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he crafted his storytelling that I find
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very impressive you look at especially
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you know you can tell when Sorkin stops
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reading The West Wing when he leaves the
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everybody's IQ on that show drops by
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about 50 points in the drama becomes
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totally different than what well because
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they make it about
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thank you don't want drama is conflict
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right so we need to make everybody angry
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at each other right and that you'll
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notice that just joshin related because
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the total jerk people just yelling at
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each other all want Leo was always angry
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ya know if there's never any common
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ground or any reconciliation part of it
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that sort of makes you feel like oh well
[TS]
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these guys at the end of the day are
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still friends even if they're going
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through this tough spot right now but
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the way he crashed his actual story
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telling where there's so many times when
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he the the narrative marks about with
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time even on the show like the Western
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sportswear you'll see the story told
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slightly out of order or you'll see the
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same part of the storytelling from two
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perspectives the the only writer i think
[TS]
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can achieve that on his level is is
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Matthew leader with madmen who
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occasionally does some of the same
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trillion you get he is of course I mean
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we often see the standard construction
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of a TV show where you've got you know
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you're a plot which is your main thing
[TS]
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going on you got a subplot sometimes
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they tied together but I think in circus
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shows that they almost always end up in
[TS]
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some way interleaving in a way that you
[TS]
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don't expect like Seinfeld
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just like Seinfeld it's been pretty much
[TS]
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the same it's like the Jerry Seinfeld
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president united states that's the
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darkest timeline Dan but now do you I
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mean I know exactly what my Chiefs or
[TS]
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complaint is but I i I'm curious since
[TS]
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it's clearly that this is becoming a
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sort of lovin
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what are our issues with sort of what
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don't you like so i'll say that won the
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West Wing was out i was at when I first
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came out I was not in technology was
[TS]
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actually public policy analyst and to
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see a TV show where they were smart
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people talking about policy and people
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knew what they were talking about it was
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like this is awesome but I went back and
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00:16:01
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I've been what are you watching it and
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I'm like man this is preachy
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I mean wow I still love the west wing I
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think it's one of the best TV shows but
[TS]
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it's very preachy and not not that it's
[TS]
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a bad way or are in a bad way or a bad
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thing but it's very like she thinks
[TS]
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everybody just doesn't get it and he
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wants to teach them and I think that
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that's one of his flaws sometimes it
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goes a little too overboard at trying to
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say you don't know this you need to know
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this and I'm gonna tell you for the next
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hour and I'm and so I think that great a
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lot of people i think that's one other
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thing that some people don't like Sorkin
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poor is that sort of storytelling i
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think that that his his construction is
[TS]
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it's sort of a memorable and frustrating
[TS]
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sometimes because you'll have things
[TS]
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where you know you definitely have
[TS]
00:16:48
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things that they're building up to
[TS]
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something and then which is good and it
[TS]
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was it like really good technique but
[TS]
00:16:55
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then you get to that something and you
[TS]
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realize that oh this is basically like
[TS]
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like the thing that I wish that I had
[TS]
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said when someone says something mean to
[TS]
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me and they're like really like that
[TS]
00:17:05
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three hours later out like this is what
[TS]
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I would have said if i was there goes
[TS]
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your text or called when the jerk store
[TS]
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that's how I felt
[TS]
00:17:13
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hey go I i actually did not watch
[TS]
00:17:15
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seinfeld sorry this isn't about side
[TS]
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I've seen happy to get your ex is all
[TS]
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about tvs are absolutely right because
[TS]
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that's what i was thinking about when we
[TS]
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first said we were gonna talk about
[TS]
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Aaron Sorkin here i thought well that's
[TS]
00:17:27
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the best way for me to describe his
[TS]
00:17:28
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dialogue is that sort of the list of
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read escalade which is the I think
[TS]
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translate the staircase with which is
[TS]
00:17:33
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like when you're on your way out this
[TS]
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you think of the things you should have
[TS]
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said yeah and he does a great job of
[TS]
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channeling that but yeah it is sometimes
[TS]
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you're like nobody actually talks like
[TS]
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that very few people think of all that
[TS]
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on the spot when you really need it to
[TS]
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really deliver that that punch of and
[TS]
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I'm rarely is it to people engaged in a
[TS]
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single conversation both seem to be
[TS]
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managing to pull it out this but at the
[TS]
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same time it's good TV great TV it is i
[TS]
00:17:57
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►
feel like it makes you feel like you
[TS]
00:18:00
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have the power to actually talk like
[TS]
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that in real life at least watching this
[TS]
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and also growing up I'd be like alright
[TS]
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if I just indoctrinate myself into
[TS]
00:18:08
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enough Amy sherman-palladino and aaron
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sorkin i will eventually be able to talk
[TS]
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really quickly and Willie and apparently
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no no not so much but when you
[TS]
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occasionally get that moment it's like
[TS]
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oh yes yes I could totally be on a show
[TS]
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for five seconds so it's aspirational TV
[TS]
00:18:23
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that's very inspirational wit I was
[TS]
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gonna say that my to address lexus point
[TS]
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about laws i think and it sort of ties
[TS]
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into what I think Dan was saying the
[TS]
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idealism aspect of it which again I
[TS]
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really admire but he kind of at times
[TS]
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converge towards the naivete I mean and
[TS]
00:18:41
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that's not quite the right thing because
[TS]
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I think he's a smart guy and he knows
[TS]
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what the problems are
[TS]
00:18:45
◼
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but the idea that good things will just
[TS]
00:18:48
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sort of float to the top like there is
[TS]
00:18:49
◼
►
sort of a meritocracy somehow and that
[TS]
00:18:52
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just by being really pure and
[TS]
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well-intentioned the truthful shine
[TS]
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hours which is how I think we don't like
[TS]
00:18:58
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it to be but what did you think was
[TS]
00:19:00
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remarkable with the west wing in
[TS]
00:19:01
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particular my parents make rush limbaugh
[TS]
00:19:06
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look liberal and they love the west wing
[TS]
00:19:09
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despite you know it it's clear the
[TS]
00:19:11
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disagreement with their political
[TS]
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perspectives and I think what the way he
[TS]
00:19:16
◼
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can pull that off is that he's he's
[TS]
00:19:18
◼
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committed to it you know he doesn't
[TS]
00:19:19
◼
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shower convicted he has a viewpoint that
[TS]
00:19:21
◼
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he wants to express it
[TS]
00:19:22
◼
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his characters are all going to be these
[TS]
00:19:23
◼
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idealistic people
[TS]
00:19:25
◼
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and you know what was nice as that I
[TS]
00:19:27
◼
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found at least Arnold Vinick comes it
[TS]
00:19:30
◼
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that you know season six and seven and
[TS]
00:19:31
◼
►
he's not historical character as a
[TS]
00:19:33
◼
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Republican that the Liberals who share
[TS]
00:19:37
◼
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the liberal philosophy is expressed on
[TS]
00:19:38
◼
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the show can appreciate and like to but
[TS]
00:19:41
◼
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not every Republican character on the
[TS]
00:19:44
◼
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sorgan years either was one he would
[TS]
00:19:46
◼
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vilify know he he took care to make sure
[TS]
00:19:48
◼
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that even when he had his viewpoint that
[TS]
00:19:49
◼
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he wasn't there as they hired a man is
[TS]
00:19:51
◼
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in the handout on it
[TS]
00:19:54
◼
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rabbi Marc person yeah but what what
[TS]
00:19:57
◼
►
infuriates me with aaron sorkin is his
[TS]
00:20:00
◼
►
seeming embrace of the fact that he
[TS]
00:20:02
◼
►
understands absolutely nothing about
[TS]
00:20:05
◼
►
technology we've been hearing this from
[TS]
00:20:07
◼
►
lex for three days now I I'm furious
[TS]
00:20:09
◼
►
about it i have never stops being
[TS]
00:20:11
◼
►
furious about it likes you mean you've
[TS]
00:20:13
◼
►
never accidentally sent an email to an
[TS]
00:20:15
◼
►
entire company when you only meant to
[TS]
00:20:17
◼
►
send it to one person that's on the
[TS]
00:20:19
◼
►
newsroom and it's it drives the whole
[TS]
00:20:22
◼
►
plot line of an episode I mean clearly
[TS]
00:20:23
◼
►
also on the west wing Josh Lyman hates
[TS]
00:20:25
◼
►
bloggers in the multiple show in modern
[TS]
00:20:28
◼
►
America rot down the entire US
[TS]
00:20:30
◼
►
government email system by 14 spam right
[TS]
00:20:33
◼
►
for the spam messages about muffins
[TS]
00:20:35
◼
►
right about the calorie content of
[TS]
00:20:37
◼
►
muffins there was well I love this one
[TS]
00:20:39
◼
►
episode of the west wing when you re
[TS]
00:20:40
◼
►
watching you just can't believe they're
[TS]
00:20:41
◼
►
in the situation room so it's you know
[TS]
00:20:43
◼
►
theoretically that you know the the
[TS]
00:20:45
◼
►
tech-savvy estate of the texts Abby
[TS]
00:20:46
◼
►
should be in this room they're using all
[TS]
00:20:47
◼
►
sorts of fancy technology to do what
[TS]
00:20:50
◼
►
they do and so they're showing the
[TS]
00:20:53
◼
►
president is photographing why is it so
[TS]
00:20:55
◼
►
blurry why is it why is this picture so
[TS]
00:20:57
◼
►
well it was emailed we think using a
[TS]
00:21:01
◼
►
and III don't know what that's supposed
[TS]
00:21:06
◼
►
to mean
[TS]
00:21:07
◼
►
but it's I mean he hates bloggers he
[TS]
00:21:10
◼
►
hates the internet he hates the web
[TS]
00:21:12
◼
►
he doesn't understand how email works he
[TS]
00:21:15
◼
►
has this whole contrived plot line on on
[TS]
00:21:17
◼
►
the newsroom where you know i-i've you
[TS]
00:21:19
◼
►
have to use a semicolon if you want to
[TS]
00:21:21
◼
►
send an email to everybody on this 2f
[TS]
00:21:23
◼
►
don't use a semicolon is going to one
[TS]
00:21:24
◼
►
person and of course he screws it up and
[TS]
00:21:26
◼
►
we're sending this email to the entire
[TS]
00:21:27
◼
►
staff and it's embarrassing which is we
[TS]
00:21:29
◼
►
just said because you get the feeling
[TS]
00:21:30
◼
►
that if he were you know had people that
[TS]
00:21:35
◼
►
would you know consult on him and really
[TS]
00:21:38
◼
►
that he would listen to that he would
[TS]
00:21:40
◼
►
really be able to write a great story
[TS]
00:21:42
◼
►
about technology and in fact of course
[TS]
00:21:44
◼
►
he has only not only written to movie
[TS]
00:21:47
◼
►
the social network which looks feels and
[TS]
00:21:49
◼
►
technology but he's also writing the
[TS]
00:21:51
◼
►
biopic of steve jobs that is not the one
[TS]
00:21:54
◼
►
with ashton kutcher which is based on i
[TS]
00:21:57
◼
►
believe the loosely based on the walter
[TS]
00:21:59
◼
►
isaacson book but also it's sort of his
[TS]
00:22:02
◼
►
phone supposedly divided up into three
[TS]
00:22:03
◼
►
scenes leading up to product announced
[TS]
00:22:05
◼
►
apple product and i'm going to be three
[TS]
00:22:07
◼
►
real-time moments before he goes on
[TS]
00:22:10
◼
►
stage at various apple keynote for the
[TS]
00:22:11
◼
►
is the original mac yes the ipod and
[TS]
00:22:15
◼
►
iphone is the iphone is I think it's the
[TS]
00:22:17
◼
►
iphone right let's go to believe
[TS]
00:22:19
◼
►
everything the iphone but which which is
[TS]
00:22:21
◼
►
I mean and you can kind of get away with
[TS]
00:22:23
◼
►
that by saying that well apple stuff
[TS]
00:22:25
◼
►
isn't always about the midi gritty parts
[TS]
00:22:27
◼
►
of technology there's more to it than
[TS]
00:22:28
◼
►
that I think that's part of the reason
[TS]
00:22:29
◼
►
that in my mind I liked the social
[TS]
00:22:32
◼
►
network
[TS]
00:22:32
◼
►
I think it succeeded in telling me a
[TS]
00:22:35
◼
►
story that i didn't think i was
[TS]
00:22:36
◼
►
necessarily interested in hearing when i
[TS]
00:22:38
◼
►
first went into it and yet i found it
[TS]
00:22:40
◼
►
compelling and it's not necessarily all
[TS]
00:22:43
◼
►
about programming I mean that plays a
[TS]
00:22:46
◼
►
part in it but it doesn't it doesn't
[TS]
00:22:47
◼
►
really matter
[TS]
00:22:48
◼
►
that's not a thing that matters in the
[TS]
00:22:49
◼
►
grants give it a lot but it you're right
[TS]
00:22:52
◼
►
that he does have a weakness that
[TS]
00:22:53
◼
►
doesn't do you have any interested in
[TS]
00:22:55
◼
►
having interest in learning about it
[TS]
00:22:57
◼
►
I don't know that that you know
[TS]
00:22:58
◼
►
obviously I don't think anyone say that
[TS]
00:23:00
◼
►
undermines the rest of his guru as it
[TS]
00:23:02
◼
►
were but it is definitely flawed is
[TS]
00:23:05
◼
►
no I think the weird thing is that he
[TS]
00:23:06
◼
►
seems perfectly confident to talk about
[TS]
00:23:08
◼
►
technology fits in
[TS]
00:23:09
◼
►
if the topic itself at hand is
[TS]
00:23:11
◼
►
technology for instance in the shelter
[TS]
00:23:13
◼
►
network and I have no doubt that the
[TS]
00:23:15
◼
►
Steve Jobs movie will be well written
[TS]
00:23:17
◼
►
and well represented but when it when he
[TS]
00:23:20
◼
►
gets the option to use technology at the
[TS]
00:23:22
◼
►
butt of his joke he will gladly take it
[TS]
00:23:26
◼
►
up i mean he he uses a similar scene
[TS]
00:23:28
◼
►
like that in every single one of his
[TS]
00:23:30
◼
►
shows sometimes multiple times to great
[TS]
00:23:33
◼
►
yeah i think this Lincoln Sports Network
[TS]
00:23:35
◼
►
Casey your dad's gonna throw a computer
[TS]
00:23:37
◼
►
out the window or something like that
[TS]
00:23:38
◼
►
something like that yes and it's just so
[TS]
00:23:42
◼
►
I one of the things that struck me also
[TS]
00:23:44
◼
►
this might be any sort of flopping over
[TS]
00:23:46
◼
►
here again we're not trying to be came
[TS]
00:23:47
◼
►
not to bury aaron sorkin months largely
[TS]
00:23:50
◼
►
to praise him i was a big love in a
[TS]
00:23:52
◼
►
minute ago and now and now it's all gone
[TS]
00:23:53
◼
►
that shirt you're being now walked in
[TS]
00:23:56
◼
►
right now we would kick now look at the
[TS]
00:23:59
◼
►
the he gets knocked for reusing stuff a
[TS]
00:24:02
◼
►
lot which I noticed been rewatching the
[TS]
00:24:05
◼
►
west wing because there's the episode in
[TS]
00:24:07
◼
►
season 7 where Arnie Vinick and Matt
[TS]
00:24:10
◼
►
Santos who are the contestants for the
[TS]
00:24:12
◼
►
presidency are talking about having a
[TS]
00:24:14
◼
►
debate and they go off on this whole
[TS]
00:24:16
◼
►
thing about we need to have a real
[TS]
00:24:17
◼
►
debate not something we're limited just
[TS]
00:24:19
◼
►
30-second sound bites and rebuttals and
[TS]
00:24:21
◼
►
all this and that's brought again in the
[TS]
00:24:24
◼
►
newsroom at the end of the newsroom
[TS]
00:24:25
◼
►
system this season they try to convince
[TS]
00:24:27
◼
►
the the republican national convention
[TS]
00:24:29
◼
►
that we want to have a real debate where
[TS]
00:24:32
◼
►
the candidates are forced to answer
[TS]
00:24:33
◼
►
questions now that's not necessarily
[TS]
00:24:35
◼
►
repeating himself that he says he didn't
[TS]
00:24:37
◼
►
write that season of The West Wing but i
[TS]
00:24:39
◼
►
want to point that out in front of
[TS]
00:24:40
◼
►
everyone that's a fair point
[TS]
00:24:41
◼
►
well and if you sure everybody up here
[TS]
00:24:44
◼
►
seated but then there's a clip out there
[TS]
00:24:46
◼
►
were somebody did a bunch of cuts where
[TS]
00:24:48
◼
►
Aaron Sorkin almost word for word we use
[TS]
00:24:51
◼
►
a whole lot of his stuff it's nine
[TS]
00:24:52
◼
►
minutes worth of cuts in fact i will
[TS]
00:24:55
◼
►
point out like that in fact in the
[TS]
00:24:56
◼
►
season he did right where he goes up
[TS]
00:24:58
◼
►
against partly goes up against James
[TS]
00:24:59
◼
►
Brolin yes i think that the Vinick
[TS]
00:25:02
◼
►
sandals thing is a call back to bad
[TS]
00:25:03
◼
►
agree two hundred percent that do you
[TS]
00:25:05
◼
►
know by the way to soften the one
[TS]
00:25:07
◼
►
episode of the west wing in which Sorkin
[TS]
00:25:09
◼
►
himself appears
[TS]
00:25:11
◼
►
for example the west wing he's in here
[TS]
00:25:15
◼
►
since social network he's in the series
[TS]
00:25:17
◼
►
finale of The West Wing when Santos is
[TS]
00:25:20
◼
►
on the inauguration platform and there's
[TS]
00:25:23
◼
►
a bunch of dignitaries there Mac sitting
[TS]
00:25:25
◼
►
there on the stage as if he's some
[TS]
00:25:27
◼
►
important analytical here appears in the
[TS]
00:25:29
◼
►
social network as a ad exec yes briefly
[TS]
00:25:32
◼
►
and he appeared actually did quite a
[TS]
00:25:35
◼
►
memorable turn on one of his own shows
[TS]
00:25:37
◼
►
but on entourage appears as himself in
[TS]
00:25:39
◼
►
several episodes as a somewhat per
[TS]
00:25:42
◼
►
article version of himself
[TS]
00:25:43
◼
►
what we believe is a problem running
[TS]
00:25:45
◼
►
with the wall and with drugs and stuff
[TS]
00:25:47
◼
►
like that i have mentioned 30 rock but
[TS]
00:25:49
◼
►
he also I he appears on 30 rock as I
[TS]
00:25:53
◼
►
believe himself and yes in a walk and
[TS]
00:25:55
◼
►
talk that's a hilarious
[TS]
00:25:57
◼
►
he has a good sense of humor about
[TS]
00:25:59
◼
►
himself in some aspects it's he's ok
[TS]
00:26:02
◼
►
with you were when it's in parodying
[TS]
00:26:05
◼
►
himself but he seems to be very very
[TS]
00:26:07
◼
►
scared of the bloggers in the you know
[TS]
00:26:10
◼
►
the folks even came
[TS]
00:26:12
◼
►
yeah if he doesn't get a say that it's
[TS]
00:26:15
◼
►
that it's not funny
[TS]
00:26:16
◼
►
we'll be going back to the into the
[TS]
00:26:18
◼
►
issues of like you know like not
[TS]
00:26:19
◼
►
fact-checking the technology or
[TS]
00:26:21
◼
►
something
[TS]
00:26:21
◼
►
I think it also ties in especially
[TS]
00:26:23
◼
►
someone as earlier stuff where is it was
[TS]
00:26:25
◼
►
pretty clear like it like wasn't he also
[TS]
00:26:27
◼
►
the showrunner 44 West weekend sports
[TS]
00:26:31
◼
►
I'm so like like he was the ultimate
[TS]
00:26:33
◼
►
authority and I think they're sometimes
[TS]
00:26:36
◼
►
when he didn't really have people there
[TS]
00:26:39
◼
►
to say you know know or you know maybe
[TS]
00:26:42
◼
►
we should have someone look over this
[TS]
00:26:44
◼
►
and so you have the issue of and I think
[TS]
00:26:47
◼
►
this also comes into the the preaching
[TS]
00:26:49
◼
►
this a little bit we're like this is
[TS]
00:26:51
◼
►
aaron sorkin show its gonna be like this
[TS]
00:26:52
◼
►
and you don't have enough input to kind
[TS]
00:26:55
◼
►
of whatever those things lee famously
[TS]
00:26:57
◼
►
overruled I mean he rewrote i think
[TS]
00:27:00
◼
►
almost every episode of the west wing
[TS]
00:27:01
◼
►
that he was involved in
[TS]
00:27:03
◼
►
yeah because he took that final
[TS]
00:27:04
◼
►
executive sort of pass and said yeah I'm
[TS]
00:27:06
◼
►
going to basically make sure that was
[TS]
00:27:08
◼
►
all of the snob while ago sorry
[TS]
00:27:10
◼
►
well I remember at one point he was
[TS]
00:27:12
◼
►
doing both sports night and west wing
[TS]
00:27:13
◼
►
like he was writing all the scripts for
[TS]
00:27:15
◼
►
both i mean that's that's insane
[TS]
00:27:18
◼
►
so I think he's also doing a lot of
[TS]
00:27:19
◼
►
cocaine too so he was that affected it
[TS]
00:27:22
◼
►
what I like to look at is the the fun
[TS]
00:27:24
◼
►
game to play is who is the sorgan
[TS]
00:27:26
◼
►
facsimile character in Sorkin's writing
[TS]
00:27:28
◼
►
in The West Wing i decided i think it's
[TS]
00:27:30
◼
►
everybody is like Josh right and i think
[TS]
00:27:34
◼
►
that in sports
[TS]
00:27:35
◼
►
I think it's both Casey and Damned and
[TS]
00:27:37
◼
►
then when you get to really get the
[TS]
00:27:39
◼
►
studio 60 we have Matthew Perry's
[TS]
00:27:42
◼
►
character Matt Albie he's clearly he the
[TS]
00:27:46
◼
►
the amazing thing about Matt Albie who
[TS]
00:27:49
◼
►
writes this saturday lifestyle shows
[TS]
00:27:51
◼
►
that he writes every episode himself he
[TS]
00:27:53
◼
►
lays off the writers because they're not
[TS]
00:27:54
◼
►
good enough so he's gonna read
[TS]
00:27:55
◼
►
everyone's health and how does he do
[TS]
00:27:57
◼
►
that how does he work this magic
[TS]
00:27:59
◼
►
how can we accomplish such great writing
[TS]
00:28:00
◼
►
and it's it's really i mean i really
[TS]
00:28:03
◼
►
like Aaron Sorkin I want to be clear but
[TS]
00:28:05
◼
►
I think it's kind of embarrassing when
[TS]
00:28:06
◼
►
you write the character who's clearly
[TS]
00:28:07
◼
►
meant to be you and he is just so
[TS]
00:28:09
◼
►
perfect so you thought it was Josh in
[TS]
00:28:12
◼
►
the West Wing i would have said maybe
[TS]
00:28:13
◼
►
Josh but also Sam you know perfection is
[TS]
00:28:16
◼
►
writer always wanted to get all the
[TS]
00:28:18
◼
►
facts in their wants to educate people
[TS]
00:28:20
◼
►
once touted smart people wants to have
[TS]
00:28:22
◼
►
witnessed my love i think it's all these
[TS]
00:28:24
◼
►
is right because Toby to because we take
[TS]
00:28:26
◼
►
it all so seriously is like he throws
[TS]
00:28:28
◼
►
away his hairy or over again he wants to
[TS]
00:28:31
◼
►
be Sam but he's really Josh we all want
[TS]
00:28:35
◼
►
to be safe I think we all know that he's
[TS]
00:28:37
◼
►
John Hoynes clearly top i think it's
[TS]
00:28:43
◼
►
funny and particularly in the case of
[TS]
00:28:44
◼
►
West Wing that that that it has a
[TS]
00:28:48
◼
►
phenomenon took on such a life of itself
[TS]
00:28:50
◼
►
I mean even even after he left I think
[TS]
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you know we all would agree that the
[TS]
00:28:54
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show did suffer sort of a precipitous to
[TS]
00:28:56
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climb in the next season and is a season
[TS]
00:28:59
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and a half I think towards the end of
[TS]
00:29:00
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season six it starts to pick up and I
[TS]
00:29:02
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think season 7 is actually pretty good
[TS]
00:29:03
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though it's not as good as
[TS]
00:29:05
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when he was just a different show it is
[TS]
00:29:07
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different it's infected two shows is the
[TS]
00:29:08
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campaign and the homefront the home from
[TS]
00:29:11
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stuff is really boring for the most part
[TS]
00:29:12
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the campaign is much better stow which
[TS]
00:29:15
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is just goes to show you that the part
[TS]
00:29:16
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they got away from what he was doing the
[TS]
00:29:18
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more they were able to do their own
[TS]
00:29:19
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thing and do that well rather than just
[TS]
00:29:21
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trying to do a bad impression of aaron
[TS]
00:29:23
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sorkin but it's funny to me that it took
[TS]
00:29:24
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on a life of its own
[TS]
00:29:26
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because we're still here in that you
[TS]
00:29:28
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know you look at the there's Twitter
[TS]
00:29:29
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accounts for all the West when
[TS]
00:29:31
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characters including these like really
[TS]
00:29:33
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really minor characters who only show up
[TS]
00:29:35
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in a couple episodes like I think like
[TS]
00:29:37
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how whole works characters like an
[TS]
00:29:38
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undersecretary of state has a twitter a
[TS]
00:29:40
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Catholic and for me it was the during
[TS]
00:29:43
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the election they got a whole bunch of
[TS]
00:29:45
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the cast back together to do a sort of a
[TS]
00:29:47
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nonpartisan ad for a judge election who
[TS]
00:29:49
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is mary mccormack who played Kate Harper
[TS]
00:29:52
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for anti guess was running sister
[TS]
00:29:55
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Michigan your sister's sister
[TS]
00:29:57
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ok but what was impressively obviously
[TS]
00:30:01
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they want to make them this whole thing
[TS]
00:30:02
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and it basically reads just like a west
[TS]
00:30:04
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wing episode even though they don't you
[TS]
00:30:07
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know that you know really acknowledge
[TS]
00:30:08
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that back anywhere and it always was one
[TS]
00:30:11
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of those things that makes me think you
[TS]
00:30:12
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know don't you want to kind of imagine
[TS]
00:30:13
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that they just they get together
[TS]
00:30:14
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sometimes and play west wing like a
[TS]
00:30:17
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really my head that's you know I have
[TS]
00:30:18
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the same thing with firefly two words
[TS]
00:30:20
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like sometimes they just hang out like
[TS]
00:30:21
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you know pretend they're still on a
[TS]
00:30:22
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spaceship right but of course they had a
[TS]
00:30:26
◼
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feeling that some of the other sort of
[TS]
00:30:27
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movies we didn't talk about you like
[TS]
00:30:29
◼
►
Moneyball really likes money when i read
[TS]
00:30:31
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the book Moneyball and then saw the
[TS]
00:30:32
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movie I don't think circuit wrote the
[TS]
00:30:37
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I you know I like Michael I mean I'm I
[TS]
00:30:41
◼
►
think I like baseball more than you to
[TS]
00:30:42
◼
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sew and i actually was familiar with
[TS]
00:30:44
◼
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some of the stuff going into it it's
[TS]
00:30:46
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it's a weirdly I think we talked about
[TS]
00:30:47
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it's a weirdly structured movie as is i
[TS]
00:30:50
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would argue social network is also a
[TS]
00:30:51
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very particularly structured movie
[TS]
00:30:54
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well biopics in general on the people
[TS]
00:30:57
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are still living
[TS]
00:30:58
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yeah which is the tricky part was saying
[TS]
00:31:00
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I was compared to do tonight it's like
[TS]
00:31:01
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Lincoln like okay dies at the end like
[TS]
00:31:03
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the story's over
[TS]
00:31:04
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he was you know mark mark zuckerberg
[TS]
00:31:06
◼
►
spoiler until it comes back in hunts
[TS]
00:31:08
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►
vampires
[TS]
00:31:08
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►
you know I i think that the the issue i
[TS]
00:31:14
◼
►
had with the social network i thought it
[TS]
00:31:15
◼
►
was a good movie but it feels like it
[TS]
00:31:17
◼
►
never really get started there's you
[TS]
00:31:20
◼
►
know there's enjoyable scenes they
[TS]
00:31:21
◼
►
connect well as well plotted i guess but
[TS]
00:31:23
◼
►
it just feels like he and when you watch
[TS]
00:31:26
◼
►
this organ scripted thing you're waiting
[TS]
00:31:29
◼
►
for it was gonna get really heated up
[TS]
00:31:30
◼
►
and intense and it doesn't it's I mean
[TS]
00:31:33
◼
►
the he does a nice job I think of
[TS]
00:31:37
◼
►
depicting those characters and I think
[TS]
00:31:38
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►
that not michael cera does a really good
[TS]
00:31:40
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►
job in the movie but and I just I feel
[TS]
00:31:44
◼
►
like you're just constantly waiting for
[TS]
00:31:45
◼
►
it to kick into high gear and it doesn't
[TS]
00:31:46
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►
I mean it's tepid in places and it's
[TS]
00:31:48
◼
►
definitely probably the calmest Sorkin
[TS]
00:31:51
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movie that I've ever watched but a lot
[TS]
00:31:54
◼
►
of it does take place sitting so there's
[TS]
00:31:55
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that every yeah there's a lot of time a
[TS]
00:31:58
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XXX I mean in reality circles best
[TS]
00:32:02
◼
►
opportunity is when he has two
[TS]
00:32:04
◼
►
characters bouncing off of each other
[TS]
00:32:06
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►
one on wasn't enough walking there was
[TS]
00:32:08
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►
not enough 142 meeting and exhausted
[TS]
00:32:11
◼
►
walking that's gross working today
[TS]
00:32:12
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►
I mean there's there's some of the
[TS]
00:32:14
◼
►
deposition stuff that's really biting
[TS]
00:32:15
◼
►
and really sparkling like oh yeah that's
[TS]
00:32:18
◼
►
that's the aaron sorkin that I know and
[TS]
00:32:20
◼
►
love at the same time I really enjoyed
[TS]
00:32:24
◼
►
the film uh but it's i agree with you
[TS]
00:32:27
◼
►
that it's not necessarily representative
[TS]
00:32:29
◼
►
of what an aaron sorkin movie can be
[TS]
00:32:31
◼
►
that actually brings up the question of
[TS]
00:32:33
◼
►
like should an aaron sorkin movie be an
[TS]
00:32:35
◼
►
aaron sorkin movie I mean if its parents
[TS]
00:32:38
◼
►
like joint if you will
[TS]
00:32:40
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►
no I will not but oh ok well I'm you
[TS]
00:32:44
◼
►
know like like it if we go to a movie
[TS]
00:32:46
◼
►
and it doesn't have like you know some
[TS]
00:32:48
◼
►
real big whitney lead-up and and
[TS]
00:32:50
◼
►
something like that like is that a
[TS]
00:32:52
◼
►
downer or does that mean that he's
[TS]
00:32:53
◼
►
actually getting better i mean i think
[TS]
00:32:56
◼
►
part of it is he's been so consistent
[TS]
00:32:58
◼
►
with the email he sort of like his
[TS]
00:33:00
◼
►
Sorkin repertory players and his Sorkin
[TS]
00:33:03
◼
►
repertory plot themes because he had so
[TS]
00:33:06
◼
►
consistently return to the same well you
[TS]
00:33:07
◼
►
know he's gonna cast Josh Malina just
[TS]
00:33:09
◼
►
about everything and he's going to have
[TS]
00:33:10
◼
►
high stakes in many things or people are
[TS]
00:33:13
◼
►
going to treat their things like the
[TS]
00:33:14
◼
►
high-stakes whether norms think they are
[TS]
00:33:17
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►
not and I think that because he's going
[TS]
00:33:19
◼
►
to that well sometimes so many times and
[TS]
00:33:21
◼
►
done it quite a definitely in ways that
[TS]
00:33:23
◼
►
entertain us
[TS]
00:33:24
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►
yes I wanted to keep doing those things
[TS]
00:33:25
◼
►
that's what i want to see when i go to
[TS]
00:33:27
◼
►
sort of movie I don't want to see in a
[TS]
00:33:28
◼
►
Quentin Tarantino movie or Steven
[TS]
00:33:30
◼
►
Spielberg movie want to go to see it's
[TS]
00:33:32
◼
►
working i want to feel like arizona and
[TS]
00:33:34
◼
►
i was in some ways I know his background
[TS]
00:33:36
◼
►
comes from theater and he started in
[TS]
00:33:37
◼
►
movies but I feel like he does a better
[TS]
00:33:39
◼
►
job with the TV stuff where he has a
[TS]
00:33:41
◼
►
larger canvas and there is this ability
[TS]
00:33:43
◼
►
to do continuity and sort of string
[TS]
00:33:45
◼
►
things out plot arcs to develop over the
[TS]
00:33:47
◼
►
course of the season as opposed to
[TS]
00:33:48
◼
►
having a cram it in a couple hours I to
[TS]
00:33:51
◼
►
me that seems a better mix tape for him
[TS]
00:33:53
◼
►
like you know he can yeah he's a French
[TS]
00:33:55
◼
►
word therefore it
[TS]
00:33:56
◼
►
yeah I just feel like that's I've seen
[TS]
00:34:00
◼
►
you know most of his later movies also
[TS]
00:34:01
◼
►
charlie wilson's war which is has again
[TS]
00:34:04
◼
►
enjoyable movie moments but it's it is
[TS]
00:34:06
◼
►
kind of strung together strangely it
[TS]
00:34:08
◼
►
doesn't necessarily feel like oh my god
[TS]
00:34:11
◼
►
that's a great movie in one that i want
[TS]
00:34:13
◼
►
to keep you know watch over and over
[TS]
00:34:14
◼
►
again I thought once in a kind of faded
[TS]
00:34:16
◼
►
memory but I know his shows all go back
[TS]
00:34:19
◼
►
to and revisit time after time except
[TS]
00:34:22
◼
►
studio 6a can get back everyone you know
[TS]
00:34:24
◼
►
i rewatch studio 69 is introducing i do
[TS]
00:34:28
◼
►
defense did musics all enemies foreign
[TS]
00:34:30
◼
►
and domestic yes you know what there's a
[TS]
00:34:32
◼
►
lot of it that certain did not get right
[TS]
00:34:35
◼
►
in terms of how backstage actually runs
[TS]
00:34:38
◼
►
but that said I think there are a lot of
[TS]
00:34:40
◼
►
great moments in that and also i love
[TS]
00:34:43
◼
►
bradley whitford i love seeing him on
[TS]
00:34:44
◼
►
stage and I think Danny Tripp is one of
[TS]
00:34:46
◼
►
his best circuit like I love Josh but I
[TS]
00:34:49
◼
►
almost think i prefer Danny trip to John
[TS]
00:34:51
◼
►
I can't believe this is happening right
[TS]
00:34:53
◼
►
now yeah I character that show was was
[TS]
00:34:56
◼
►
who's the kids in the hall bet who shows
[TS]
00:34:58
◼
►
up in mark McKinney yes mark McKinney
[TS]
00:35:00
◼
►
shows up as the writer the really really
[TS]
00:35:02
◼
►
depressed right now because my great
[TS]
00:35:03
◼
►
character in that show
[TS]
00:35:04
◼
►
that's a great example of how sore can
[TS]
00:35:06
◼
►
you can use multiple episodes to build
[TS]
00:35:09
◼
►
up a character I mean when they get into
[TS]
00:35:11
◼
►
character sit down and have a
[TS]
00:35:12
◼
►
conversation in a circus show
[TS]
00:35:13
◼
►
it's not there never talking about the
[TS]
00:35:15
◼
►
topic at hand
[TS]
00:35:16
◼
►
it's always circuitous in there they end
[TS]
00:35:18
◼
►
up talking about something completely
[TS]
00:35:19
◼
►
different and it's kind of hard to do
[TS]
00:35:21
◼
►
that in a film you know you can't you
[TS]
00:35:23
◼
►
can't really talk around the subject for
[TS]
00:35:26
◼
►
two hours unless you're Steven Spielberg
[TS]
00:35:28
◼
►
in your writing Lincoln because Lincoln
[TS]
00:35:29
◼
►
you know has the you have the background
[TS]
00:35:31
◼
►
to have him give these big parking
[TS]
00:35:33
◼
►
speeches and bon mot said they didn't
[TS]
00:35:36
◼
►
have to tell the story because we all
[TS]
00:35:37
◼
►
knew it yeah exactly
[TS]
00:35:38
◼
►
but when you're trying to do a biopic
[TS]
00:35:40
◼
►
when you're trying to do something like
[TS]
00:35:41
◼
►
that so I mean it will be really really
[TS]
00:35:44
◼
►
interesting to see if he can tackle
[TS]
00:35:47
◼
►
something like the Steve Jobs move for
[TS]
00:35:48
◼
►
instance I almost like the idea of doing
[TS]
00:35:50
◼
►
a really long scenes we've seen what
[TS]
00:35:52
◼
►
happens when circuit short scenes in a
[TS]
00:35:54
◼
►
movie where he has to do a lot of setup
[TS]
00:35:56
◼
►
and as you don't get a lot of
[TS]
00:35:57
◼
►
back-and-forth I think my objection to I
[TS]
00:36:00
◼
►
like studio 60 I don't love it i think
[TS]
00:36:02
◼
►
my objection is that he first of all I
[TS]
00:36:04
◼
►
don't think he really got forgets how to
[TS]
00:36:07
◼
►
write sketch-comedy I know you and I
[TS]
00:36:08
◼
►
have disagreed about this but some of
[TS]
00:36:10
◼
►
the sketches that supposed to be the
[TS]
00:36:11
◼
►
most hilarious are really really not
[TS]
00:36:13
◼
►
know I agree with you that doesn't mean
[TS]
00:36:15
◼
►
it's not a funny show and I think it's
[TS]
00:36:17
◼
►
impossible to go out and say you know
[TS]
00:36:18
◼
►
this is the show that is the funniest
[TS]
00:36:20
◼
►
show that everybody loves like that kind
[TS]
00:36:21
◼
►
of build up you just write your story so
[TS]
00:36:23
◼
►
that then so I feel like he he gets
[TS]
00:36:26
◼
►
afraid very early on in the scripting of
[TS]
00:36:28
◼
►
that show and moves away from what it
[TS]
00:36:31
◼
►
set out to be and then you get the very
[TS]
00:36:33
◼
►
broad characters John Goodman character
[TS]
00:36:35
◼
►
jonathan is so great on the west wing
[TS]
00:36:37
◼
►
and then just so brought in bizarre as
[TS]
00:36:39
◼
►
that judge on the on the studio 60 and
[TS]
00:36:42
◼
►
then he sort of gets a little bit
[TS]
00:36:43
◼
►
self-referential we're talking about
[TS]
00:36:45
◼
►
we've got a boost ratings we should do
[TS]
00:36:46
◼
►
things like have pregnancies and have
[TS]
00:36:48
◼
►
people get locked you know it we should
[TS]
00:36:51
◼
►
do you know where they locked in a room
[TS]
00:36:52
◼
►
and then hey Amanda piece character gets
[TS]
00:36:53
◼
►
pregnant and then they're locked on the
[TS]
00:36:55
◼
►
roof in that same episode we're talking
[TS]
00:36:56
◼
►
about it gets a little bit less bizarre
[TS]
00:36:59
◼
►
preferential yeah i mean i do think and
[TS]
00:37:01
◼
►
I think that
[TS]
00:37:02
◼
►
some of that the newsroom suffers from
[TS]
00:37:04
◼
►
also i want to talk about the news right
[TS]
00:37:07
◼
►
yeah i know that you don't like the news
[TS]
00:37:08
◼
►
i actually you like it i think it took a
[TS]
00:37:10
◼
►
while i think it took a while to develop
[TS]
00:37:11
◼
►
and get to a place where I really liked
[TS]
00:37:14
◼
►
it and was in favor of the characters
[TS]
00:37:16
◼
►
because there are so many characters I
[TS]
00:37:17
◼
►
cho who do you start off as unlikable um
[TS]
00:37:20
◼
►
and I kind of it as the season
[TS]
00:37:22
◼
►
progressed I found that I liked
[TS]
00:37:23
◼
►
will the jeff daniels character more and
[TS]
00:37:26
◼
►
he reminds me and in the later episodes
[TS]
00:37:28
◼
►
he starts to remind me more of like Toby
[TS]
00:37:30
◼
►
the wedding or he's just he's cranky but
[TS]
00:37:33
◼
►
he's like underneath it's because he's
[TS]
00:37:34
◼
►
so frustrated with the back that all
[TS]
00:37:36
◼
►
this stuff has never worked out so I
[TS]
00:37:38
◼
►
like the newsroom but i think it i don't
[TS]
00:37:40
◼
►
like the women on the newsroom I think
[TS]
00:37:42
◼
►
they're I i think that circuit has been
[TS]
00:37:44
◼
►
attacked someone fairly simple as for
[TS]
00:37:45
◼
►
not writing women well and I think that
[TS]
00:37:47
◼
►
is a fair critique on the newsroom I do
[TS]
00:37:51
◼
►
want to say that when you spend Wilson
[TS]
00:37:52
◼
►
will McAvoy I don't think there's a
[TS]
00:37:55
◼
►
single and i challenge anyone to find me
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00:37:57
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I don't think there's a single rider out
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there with better character naming shops
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in Arizona will McAvoy Toby Ziegler exam
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seaboard nationalized he does do a good
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job Josiah Bartlet come on down
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they feel very real at the same time
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very elevated Beatrice yeah
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Zuckerberg who would have thought yeah
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Zuckerberg come on
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yes circuited women was something that I
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kind of wanted to talk about but I'm
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always wary about it because I do feel
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that circle gets an unjust rep for the
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amount of oh he doesn't treat women he
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doesn't write women while he writes them
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as crazy but not manic pixie dream real
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crazy just crazy out of their mind and
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there are some characters i agree with
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but this witness's character on newsroom
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her mom which one
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la Mer Mac Mac yeah alright so Mackenzie
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is a little bit crazy but at the same
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time someone who clearly has PTSD who's
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been in overseas for the last three four
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years it is coming back and adjusting to
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real like there's a lot about her
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00:39:01
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character that rings true and I think
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she's overwritten at parts but at the
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same time i get i get really frustrated
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reading articles online that's like as a
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woman you should feel ashamed of the way
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that Aaron Sorkin rights women
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and I'm like you know I last there well
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no I mean I i have my problems away with
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wearing certain television yeah exactly
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you know I mean I'm not saying that
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Aaron Sorkin deserves a gold star and a
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10 out of 10 on the way he portrays
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women but he certainly doesn't a whole
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lot better and a whole lot more
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realistically been a lot of other
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writers too and I and I i hate to do
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this but we are actually running up
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against hard time limit right now we're
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so used to having an hour and a half to
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two hours to talk about the subject to
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death and then have recently 25 minute
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time slot so I'm asking anyone will
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leave us with a favorite Sorkin wine or
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dam breaks get one no no I hate yeah
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you're going to spot on to yeah yeah i
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can only carry on a tradition i need to
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do some cleaning
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I i worked with josh Molina's sister
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that there has to be some glaring in
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everything that's been comfortable party
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started flying over perhaps we should
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explain going to the assembled audience
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I don't think we've got a child sorry we
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don't have time we go to the
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00:40:19
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incomparable com there's a there's a 127
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00:40:22
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episode archive in which you were
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00:40:23
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talking to him about the origins of
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00:40:25
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blending and many another thing when
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freshman has been and knows everybody
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so um I i have about 250 favorite west
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wing episodes but the one that came to
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mind when you raise this question here
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is the scene where Jed Bartlet talks
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down the doctor laura style radio host
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who doesnt sit he goes through her whole
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religious opposition to you is a wedding
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at the radio correspond right you know
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white house right and he doesn't stand
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00:40:53
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the light at the end of it at the end of
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00:40:54
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this teardown we talked about you know
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should I stone my wife because she
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worked on the Sabbath whatever else is
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in this building where the president
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stands nobody sits and then she slowly
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00:41:03
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ashamedly has to stand up gotta just
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love that I could watch that over and
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00:41:06
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over again when you got a favorite at
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00:41:08
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every single moment in sports night I
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really i love i love a lot of sports
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night it is my favorite go to show that
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i just put in so i don't know i was
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Natalie in Jeremy I
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00:41:21
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steal my favorite my favorite sports
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00:41:23
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night moment which I think of a lot as a
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00:41:24
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writer which is an episode where Dan
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00:41:26
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decided like has writer's block and
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00:41:29
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there's a sexual cases it's not that bad
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00:41:30
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let me see what you got the Flyers play
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00:41:33
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but yeah the temples tonight in a hockey
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00:41:35
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game and they 1423 yeah that fascinates
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00:41:39
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for me as a writer because i have days
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00:41:41
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like that anyway we're going to wrap up
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00:41:43
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here i'd like to thank my panel serenity
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00:41:45
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Caldwell Lex Friedman jeff carlson and
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00:41:48
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Dan breaks this has been being
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00:41:50
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comfortable thanks for coming by and
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00:41:52
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we'll see it next week s
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