The Incomparable

00:00:00 ◼   ► the Anton comparable number 162 [TS]

00:00:07 ◼   ► october2013 welcome back to be [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► comfortable podcast I'm your host Jason [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► L and we are live in a room with people [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► in portland oregon where at the XOXO [TS]

00:00:21 ◼   ► festival which is a celebration of indy [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► content creators and i'm joined in this [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► room by three guess frequent visitor to [TS]

00:00:31 ◼   ► the podcast Glenn fleischmann has [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► returned hello Glenn hello I'm currently [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► very sleeves of tattoos I've been [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► important for three days they [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► spontaneously form on my arm it's like [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► magic [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► it's crazy that's what the air in [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► portland does greg NOS who only appears [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► on a comparable podcast that are [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► recorded live because he doesn't know [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► how to use a computer is here hi Greg hi [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► it's good to have you [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► thank you and special cast Jeff Carlson [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► joins us [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► is this your first time have you been on [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► i have been on been on your own without [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► me right you were on the air in the [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► aaron sorkin episode that's right yeah I [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► I took your place so i am also only [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► alive performed only one of the cards [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► right [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► not on the computer you're Amish [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► basically basically i can bring my own [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► equipment and I'm i don't understand [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► these things that are in front of me [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► that are stealing my voice yeah i know [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► they are sorry I've stolen parts of your [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► soul that's just how it is [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► there's nothing like so I thought we [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► would talk about it in the spirit of [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► XOXO I thought we would talk about indie [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► projects and and and culture and people [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► creating things outside the bounds of [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► sort of mainstream mainstream media [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► distribution and i'm not i'm not sure [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► what kind of stuff you guys are [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► consuming that goes outside outside [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► those bounds I've got a couple of [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► thoughts i'm wondering Glenn you do a [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► whole podcast about people who create [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► new things and different things the new [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► disruptors do you have some favorite [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► indie culture stuff that you consume [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► look up with like general and specific [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► the general thing is I keep finding [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► myself over time more and more [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► gravitating to things that are created [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► by a small number of people and it's [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► funny I think it goes back even to the [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► software [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► where I like a lot of the software that [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► I use on a regular basis is from small [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► companies there's a few things I used [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► for mass produce once but it's like that [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► there's actually connection and software [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► you can get things fixed and added you [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► can't do that in media but I find that [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► like there's a unless you George Lucas [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► that's right [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► please change that photoshop for me [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► thank you but the leader like a indie [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► game the movie is a great example of [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► that is to filmmakers and they appear to [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► last year's XOXO they're attending this [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► year's they just finished kind of [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► four-year odyssey of it and it's a great [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► moving film and it was really two people [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► work they brought in some people at the [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► very end for post-production they had a [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► composer to write the music for these [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► two peoples and Jamie spin you know [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► essentially spent four years of their [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► lives producing a film which the filming [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► was really done like three years ago [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► they produced one version they produce [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► the blocks tradition and you can feel [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► the hand of individual people on one [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► work that's created i was just a packs [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► in seattle pax prime the big gaming [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► event and I walked all over the place [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► i'm not a game run fairly casual guy and [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► i found that the big stuff was [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► interesting i'm curious what people are [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► playing from the big you know studios [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► and microsoft and nintendo and what have [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► you but there's an indian mini booth [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► where a bunch of developers get together [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► they buy space and they buy one big [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► space they show small business than one [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► of the booths is like this micro booth [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► in which tiny tiny developers are [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► crammed into this tiny times you can bet [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► can't walk through and it's um and all [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► that stuff was lovely like know two [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► things look the same as some of it was [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► artistic and like you know dramatic [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► painterly and some of it was out of [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► control so it was beautiful 3d but it [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► was all the most interesting stuff was [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► packed into this one boot space and the [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► rest of it was mainstream and just all [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► sort of looked a little bit of like to [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► me to stop their better is that I was [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► practicing Raptors just said i was [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► reading for like small people to come [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► out with tiny little new nano computers [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► great what about you do i do you only [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► watch only watch sitcoms on Monday [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► nights on CBS is that you heard what did [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► I that's why [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► demographic yes your announcement of [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► yours against um yeah i agree with Glenn [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► is that I'm what you get out of this [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► indie stuff is a singular vision people [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► who really care about these projects [TS]

00:04:26 ◼   ► they can make money from them and that's [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► one of the points of XOXO is not only [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► producing the stuff but using the [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► internet newer technologies to find an [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► audience and distribute it and that has [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► allowed me as a consumer of this stuff [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► to find it much easier in fact have too [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► much of it and so the but the stuff that [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► I do find its things that I that would [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► have been passed around on videotape [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► before they would have been produced [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► they may have been more difficult to [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► produce they may have taken much longer [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► because they didn't have the tools but [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► now you can stumble across professional [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► quality movies like indie game which is [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► terrific and because of the internet and [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► I realize that's not a great insight but [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► for me as a consumer I don't have to go [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► anywhere which is really really nice i [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► don't have to talk to people haha i [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► don't have to do that interact with [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► anybody to have this horrific stuff [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► finding its way to me and the fact that [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► it it is a passion project that is now [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► easier to produce easier to distribute [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► and easier to consume is there's so much [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► more of it because of that and that [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► makes it just the whole process becomes [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► simpler you can feel it when a project [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► is a passion project you can feel it [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► when people aren't doing it for the [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► money it's great when they make money [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► but that didn't begin the project and it [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► didn't sustain the project whose [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► obsession that got them started [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► sounds like a tagline movie was [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► obsession i got them started but it is [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► it's that thing that began with [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► obsession ended with customer service [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► back by midnight assembly brought that [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► one by one but it's true is that this is [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► goes back to like the blogging days [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► people would ask me how do i started [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► blogging I'm like is there something [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► you're interested in that you can't stop [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► talking about and did jeff carlson is [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► not again because everything understand [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► everything and I shared office space [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► with him so he knows what I mean let me [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► tell you about Wi-Fi that's not that's [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► not what student pride but it shows that [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► you have to have a session that drives [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► you and [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► it used to be you couldn't either turn [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► that into a career make money from it or [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► find an audience and now you can take [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► your obsession and you can find a way to [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► translate it into something that is not [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► a mass market but that can reach an [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► audience and then you're you know [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► something you're doing something that [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► feels productive because you're [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► interacting with the community that [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► appreciates what you're doing and I [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► think the modern version of indie stuff [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► started with software back in the [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► eighties you people with you know ziploc [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► bag a disc of the game they made and [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► advertised in the back of a magazine and [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► send it off to people in games got big [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► and that kind of died down for a little [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► while but with the introduction of [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► mobile devices in the app store and the [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► introduced the ability to for a single [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► developer to create a passion project [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► have it distributed worldwide to a [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► single source and then reap the benefits [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► and now the tools that allow that are [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► also coming to other media so that [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► somebody who is producing a movie like [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► last year at the indy game people that [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► XOXO talked about the ways they [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► distributed they're distributing through [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► steam which is of course a platform to [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► distributing video games they're [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► distributing through downloads directly [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► from their own site that distributing [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► through distributing through VFX and [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► like say if somebody had a small indie [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► magazine that could be distributed [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► electronically never heard of such a [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► thing how would that work exactly [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► first you have somebody who creates it's [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► jen is another guy comes along and buys [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► beer genius who puts hundreds of [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► thousands of dollars with his own time [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► before getting an app that is awesome [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► that's the solution brilliant i think [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► the fact that an ingrate just touched on [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► this but you know for a long time we've [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► heard about how like the tools will let [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► you make anything like you can you can [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► make something United movie in which i [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► wrote about four years you know like you [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► can build your own moving you can do all [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► this time you can create create create [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► but then there was always that hurdle up [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► okay now you've got it [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► what do you do with it and so it's nice [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► that there's so much focus on how to get [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► it out there [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► how to you know like what happens when [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► you're halfway through the project and [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► you know what needs to be done and you [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► absolutely do not have the resources to [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► finish it that the two guys that were [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► talking last night at a little film [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► festival part that film festival product [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► XOXO they have a movie called strip that [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► they're in the middle of working on and [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► they have 300 hours of interviews with [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► comic book creators and comic comic [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► strip artists basically comes to [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► acquiring yeah and so they are you know [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► like they need to do something with all [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► of that and by having a kickstarter and [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► you know different resources they can [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► actually finish it rather than have it [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► just be the passion project that they've [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► been working on in little bits here and [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► there that you know just might fade out [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► this used to be the software thing we're [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► talking about is that is that software [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► was the leading edge because the thing [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► you have to distribute was bits and you [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► can put on a floppy disk and then a CD [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► and you can email it then you could be [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► no torrent like there's a lot of ways to [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► show you software and it was you know [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► you could take credit cards and software [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► costs enough that you could get into the [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► credit card system there's paypal and [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► whatever but physical goods or things [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► that were media like funding a movie it [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► was movie was too big to download a [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► while ago and it was impossible to [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► collect lots of money so it's like this [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► felt like you could make the movie the [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► tools were good enough on a computer and [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► you can get decent of cameras cheap [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► enough you could make something looked [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► really good a few years ago [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► there's no way you could fund it and [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► there was no way you could distribute [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► unless you got into like video stores [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► maybe itunes not only pre-funding but [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► then the post profit afterwards the [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► district with distributing times profit [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► that's right because remember indie game [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► actually this is why don't we will talk [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► about the whole time but like that was [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► their thing too is they went to Sundance [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► with the movie almost two years ago they [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► gotta editing award and they got [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► approached by distributors and they talk [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► to them all they looked at the deal they [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► said you know we will lose all control [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► we can't send a movie out to the backers [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► outside the United States for like a [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► year and a half there like all these [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► restrictions to maybe do it ourselves [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► they called movie theaters the book [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► stuff they got us corporate sponsor [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► adobe love them because they were using [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► final cut pro and so [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► pro bono vacated the my godmother using [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► a premier Premier front of the other [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► using Adobe products that they were so [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► indie game the sorry I didn't pan out [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► that's what I can explore other people [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► guys aren't getting paid by Adobe Oh [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► said too much and put them and maybe the [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► butt so they they want their own [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► independent even with distribution of it [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► I'm not just like downloads and discs [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► but even like to the movie theaters [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► because you can you don't need to make [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► 400 reels of film now you can take a [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► digital disc and that's even fighting to [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► the last year even further [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► yeah I was um it's fascinating to see [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► all the it's not just Kickstarter now [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► there's IndieGoGo and there are other [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► other sites that are doing different [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► models for this and and and you see you [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► do see two different models here you see [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► people who are known who are able to cut [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► out the middleman in some cases or [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► change how they do their business and [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► then you see complete unknowns like [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► these filmmakers who have a subject that [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► people like and want to see and are able [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► to fund it and essentially they are [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► pre-ordering but they're proving that [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► there's an audience and these people [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► can't afford to put their own money in [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► upfront but they know that there's an [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► audience and the audience helps make it [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► which in some ways I mean that's how I [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► always thought Kickstarter was at its [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► core the most important way to do it was [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► there's an audience for this thing but [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► you can't you know make it for them [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► without the kickstart so I most of my [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► experience I got to be honest most of my [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► experience with indie stuff is artists [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► that I was aware of already but [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► especially in the music industry where [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► traditionally musicians the economics [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► have been so terrible that a lot of [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► musicians are now going direct to their [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► audiences and bypassing the the studios [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► and doing projects on their own [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► I there's a couple music artist Mike [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► Cody who we used to be in the band soul [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► coughing released a an album of his old [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► band songs that he recorded and he had a [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► bunch of bonus things as you do i think [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► it was an IndieGoGo project but you know [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► you could get an acoustic album and [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► there's a lot of back-and-forth about [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► what he was going to do there but it was [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► something that was kinda outside the [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► realm of the usual i'm going to put out [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► a release and then [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► artist really like imogen heap decided [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► to release her tracks for her next album [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► as she was recording them instead of [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► waiting for years and then releasing the [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► album and so her album is gonna come out [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► early next year and I've already heard [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► half the tracks already bought half the [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► tracks its kind of brilliant from a [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► business standpoint but also i was happy [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► to subscribe to you know attract every [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► two to three months instead of waiting [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► for the old model [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► well this is what's happening to is I [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► think you're getting the Baroque effect [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► of having so much money pouring into the [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► system when you find that people [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► actually want to support the artist [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► directly especially in the music [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► business but was in film book cartooning [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► cartoonist the musicians have made a [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► terrible living is like cartoons or even [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► lower down the heat in there at one of [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► cartoonist I know now it's not like the [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► rolling in money but it's like someone [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► have the day job and this is now let's [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► make a full living and they don't have [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► to worry about the day job somewhere [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► able to quit the day job because it's [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► enough money that they can then move [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► into the new project so they're [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► superstars in every field but the thing [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► I was thinking about is that the the [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► broke part is that i'm Kickstarter's [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► probably on track to bring it on a [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► foreigner finder million dollars this [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► year I think something like that really [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► supported billion dollars and completed [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► pledges IndieGoGo is smaller but it [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► might be I think I'm sure like twenty [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► twenty-five percent of that they've got [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► that different model like Kickstarter [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► you have to raise all the money you sent [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► out to raise you don't get any of it you [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► can go over IndieGoGo you can say I only [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► want to raise whatever I raised [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► there's now a bunch of product sites [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► where there's a it's a different compact [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► with the buyer so it's we release money [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► to the product designer only as they [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► complete benchmarks or we're going to [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► fully vet there's one site that's we're [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► going to fully vet the product rating [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► with engineering firms we're gonna have [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► the ledge see if this is feasible before [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► we even let someone listen it's not [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► we're gonna have to go back and iterate [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► so the only stuff we list we feel will [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► be a little further along and more [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► likely produced and so they're so it's [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► not just this monolithic like you go to [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► Kickstarter's one approach there's [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► enough money that you're seeing like you [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► know these sites could be doing 20 [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► million dollars 50 million dollars [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► there's a lot of nature like I mean [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► there's a porn version Kickstarter hmm [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► you can go out and get you know fund [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► your fetish film what's called and asked [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► us for some specific examples of indie [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► art that i consider want to talk about [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► haha be born there [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► predictive is a call plz kick-started it [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► just kick something like that yes well [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► I've wanted to mix stopper right [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► alternators when I was gonna I was gonna [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► ask you that you talk about the the [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► indie artists that you pursued that [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► you've pursued have been label artists [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► that have gone independent right right [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► because the economics are problematic [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► right and that or maybe artists that are [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► on a label but want to do a different [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► method of of releasing to the fans [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► because they know that eventually [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► they'll be a studio album that's in the [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► old channel but could I do something in [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► the intervening three years while making [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► this album so there's a couple different [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► right and then those are people that [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► have built audiences already yeah it's [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► not just one of the reasons that it's [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► easy for them to do this [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► yes just like just like zach braff or or [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► you know Veronica Mars and there's a [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► whole debate about whether they deserve [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► to be on Kickstarter because they have [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► access to your money and I think that [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► deserve is not a question of it there's [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► proof that people who come into the [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► system the the crowdfunding system [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► because of these larger projects then [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► contribute to other stuff i was going to [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► ask you have you sought out other [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► artists through Kickstarter or through [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► other crowdfunding means well I [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► certainly don't use Kickstarter as a as [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► a way to discuss we recommend it's not a [TS]

00:16:17 ◼   ► discovery medium right so so I I'm you [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► know you will find project music hard [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► too because you really do want to listen [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► to it and and and whether you find it [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► through alternative means or mainstream [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► means you know you want to make that [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► connection to like this stuff and then [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► you follow you follow that it they're [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► different models i was going to mention [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► in books that you know self-publishing [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► we've been talking about Kickstarter [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► crown fighting but self-publishing there [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► have been several successes and and [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► again I'll leave [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► 50 shades of grey Greg to talk about [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► mice expertise as well have a whole [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► other world of toilet fanfic what's up [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► big so I was going to mention wool by [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► Hugh Howey which is a best-selling novel [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► that's now been released by a [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► traditional publisher but it started as [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► a series of novel let's basically [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► released by toilet and how it's not [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► twilight fan effect on although you can [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► do that on amazon now it was it was [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► released by him directly self-published [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► amazon and it became wildly successful [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► and is essentially a best-seller now and [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► I think it was a nanowrimo in fact so [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► now [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► travel writing month disclosure i'm on [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► the board everybody should write a novel [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► in November Greg's gonna kill himself [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► I'll write a story about Greg but i'm [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► launching a kickstarter for someone to [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► write a novel for the excellent i can't [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► wait to read that the Kickstarter not [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► the novel idea huh [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► you have somebody write a novel then you [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► buy it from them let's get this is money [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► yes but she wouldn't we you know that [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► it's a it's a pretty good book actually [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► and it's what's funny about it is that I [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► they bundle it up into an omnibus [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► edition and that's the one that was [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► published in a more traditional means [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► and that that happens to a lot of this [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► stuff to is once it gets discovered [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► sometimes it just like webcomics that [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► turn into printed books it's sort of [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► like after the fact once you it's almost [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► like the crowdfunding or internet [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► popularity becomes a filter that it's so [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► hard it's not that there is some good [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► stuff out there it's it's hard to find [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► it in if you're a publisher if your [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► mainstream up with the money it's like [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► where do you put in money it's like oh [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► that's the the problem of editors and [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► gatekeepers has now been transferred to [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► the audience yeah is why the reason I [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► asked you about whether you found [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► anybody knew through Kickstarter [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► crowdfunding is because you can go out [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► there and swing a cat and hit 50 new [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► things that you might be interested in [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► and it's it's the mainstream media as [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► well as producing an enormous amount of [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► amazing stuff right and so now you have [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► these sluice gates opened a terrific [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► mainstream media available terrific [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► indymedia and how do you filter that [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► what this also that's the it's the the [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► niche thing know the nice thing which [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► word is that was quite a small space [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► that happy the nice media we're in [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► northridge el museo need the nice thing [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► is that you have um there's small [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► audience as you gaze into the [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► Kickstarter the Kickstarter also cases [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► it to you [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► wow it doesn't bring me down I hope fun [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► the it's that every small audience is [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► whether the gatekeeper thing that the [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► audience is not the gatekeeper as a [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► certain level like you can have a [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► fundamental there's the issue that the [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► audience is fine what they like to write [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► so Amanda Hocking is the big example [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► where she was telling all these millions [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► of vampire novels and and so forth and [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► made a fortune selling a very [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► specifically was Taylor but you also [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► have we talked [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► over and over again about the thousand [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► true fan SI that kevin kelly roads it's [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► seminal because it took a concept sort [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► of codified it under one term that the [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► idea that you know he was saying p1000 [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► true fans I think it was a musician you [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► can probably make a living or [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► programming from it but what turns out i [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► think that be true is it scalable so you [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► can have a hundred true fans and produce [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► certain kinds of things you know your [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► ballet troupe in a small town or your [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► gear it's every one side project but you [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► have a hundred people who come to every [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► performance and that's that I you look [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► familiar to me [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► I tried to do the two tests are you can [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► end but you can have the bat-rope you [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► can happen to have a thousand people you [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► have 10,000 hundred thousand so the ship [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► famous people use Kickstarter issues [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► well you know everybody's a little bit [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► payments or could but it's like they can [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► raise five million dollars for Veronica [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► Mars movie but somebody else might raise [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► five thousand dollars that is equally as [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► significant for them right [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► the scale at which they're working for a [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► fanfic veronica mars movie exactly right [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► handheld cameras running for and [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► actually getting something that just [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► just call it better do I sign up online [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► not know this [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► I mean this is one of the that this [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► discussion has gone interesting [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► direction which is and I could expect [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► nothing less from you gentlemen have you [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► have you not listened to the podcast [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► yeah my podcast heart's beating really [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► know the UH the idea that you don't you [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► know a publisher is seeking a hit [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► they're seeking a hit a very very [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► because they know that a lot of the [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► things aren't going to make it and some [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► are going to break even and they want [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► hits and when you're in this with it [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► with distribution mechanisms we have met [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► with ebooks and print on demand and a [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► small run press and web comics and [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► podcasts many podcasts are not every [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► podcast is from a corporate behemoths [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► like the uncomfortable [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► oh you know the it's you don't need to [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► have a hit that reaches a million people [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► i mean like on TV a TV show that reaches [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► a million people in unless that you know [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► depending on the channel and the [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► demographics it's kind of a failure [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► happens [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► travelocity well it depends now actually [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► these days some shows on cable if you [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► get a million you're doing ok well on [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► CBS but a podcast that reaches 15 or 20 [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► thousand people you know that that's a [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► wild success in and and it doesn't have [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► to reach a million you can be you know [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► you can be uncomfortable and reach [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► 15,000 people and be okay because we let [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► those are the because the comfortable [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► listenership those are the best 15,000 [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► people on the face of the earth [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► let me flip it around to there's another [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► part which is as a creator as an artist [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► and Jeff Cross has written and enormous [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► number of computer of technical books or [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► technology books that brings us to our [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► sponsor he works of Jeff Carl's going to [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► the circumstances and all his books are [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► fully edible the ok but I'm good [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► so just written Jeff catoctin this [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► experience being a ton of books when you [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► want to talk about the hit concepts and [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► terms any steps so you work for [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► conventional computer but publishers [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► turning into interview Jeff tell me [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► about it but it's your written i don't [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► know we have like 30 books including [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► revision something on that order of [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► magnitude higher but what happens when [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► you don't you know you get in advance [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► what happens when you don't you and you [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► don't have a hit when you're working [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► with the conventional publisher how does [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► that work out for you financially things [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► just kind of fade and then I mean it's [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► they don't come and get your money but [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► they just don't ask you for more [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► yeah they'll give you exactly well I can [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► turn this back on you because I didn't [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► go tonight after written books we we [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► wrote a thousand-page book about adobe [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► golive and wow yeah exactly like 9000 [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► Stephenson pro we didn't believe it at [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► the time at three-thirty guns it will be [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► all Stevens well it started as 800 pages [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► so you know that was how much more [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► manageable develop yeah exactly [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► George RR Martin's game of colon [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► is another we started with stephen king [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► and ended up with george RR 1 and so the [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► the the way publishing works is we [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► received in advance and then when the [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► book goes on on for sale [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► the book has to earn back its advance [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► before we see any royalties and [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► fortunately if the book is not [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► successful or moderately successful we [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► you know don't have to give back any of [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► the money or anything like that and so I [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► mean at some point because goal i was a [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► big deal for a very small amount of time [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► after adobe purchased it and then [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► dreamweaver just basically you know it's [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► lunch and so we would get these monthly [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► royalty statements and we were you know [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► massively in the whole like we will [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► never ever ever see any money from that [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► and so there's the advantage thereof of [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► having a a traditional book publisher [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► that will take that risk and I mean I [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► think ultimately they probably made a [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► little bit of money because of the the [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► markups and all of that but you have [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► that that that mechanism in place where [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► someone is going to say okay we're gonna [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► put some money into this we're going to [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► make this happen like it's going to be a [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► thing and then we're going to put it out [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► there and we have a Salesforce and we [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► have like infrastructure to to make this [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► happen and even if it's not a a wild [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► success [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► it's okay and and you know that look [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► like the profits of this or or if you [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► sort of you know mid-level sales things [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► contribute to the bigger picture and [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► that's not the case with it with indeed [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► but this is what I this is what i think [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► is interesting about the long tail had [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► this conversation in fact with chris [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► anderson when he was working on the book [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► the longtail years ago because he was at [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► work at amazon in 96-97 one of the great [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► secrets of Amazon was that is special [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► order fulfillment really well and nobody [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► else that at the time even barnes and [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► noble we could get any book within a few [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► weeks and charged list price there is no [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► markup at the time that was a secret [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► because those you make the highest [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► amount of money from because they're [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► expensive books typically you don't [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► discount them [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► the thing about the long tail that's [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► interesting Chris emphasizes a in a few [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► places in his book is that the longtail [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► benefits the publisher or the aggregator [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► of the resale reseller amazon it is [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► great for amazon they can sell one copy [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► of a million books profitably the [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► hundred thousand publishers that are [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► selling 10 copies of books a half month [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► through amazon they're not making very [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► much money and the same thing goes for [TS]

00:25:51 ◼   ► the publisher the publisher they can [TS]

00:25:53 ◼   ► distribute their profits and losses [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► across have some blockbusters and some [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► not they want the big ones but i was [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► thinking but they can still do okay even [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► as long as an average and I was taken [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► from the artist standpoint this new [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► economy of things means that well this [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► is why flipping around is like you have [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► to sell 15,000 copies of the book to [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► earn out and make probably a decent [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► hourly wage from what you did write [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► something in every twenty twelve to [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► fifteen thousand copies from my but if [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► you can control all the means of [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► production if I go with Kickstarter I'm [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► like I want really not going to kick [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► start to write a book about Goliath via [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► the classic program it's like an old [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► video first you have to kick-start the [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► time machine that's right it's at [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► legends of Zelda go live edition but if [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► i were to do that I don't have to sell [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► twelve thousand copies I'm I've been [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► talking to so many people to kick [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► starters who their have the price point [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► maybe the rewards in the $25 range they [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► sell a thousand their 25 grand it's [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► enough for them to do 2,000 if it's a [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► product or a book or whatever and then [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► they have that they've they may be Nate [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► made no money doing air quotes audience [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► i'm doing air quotes i just made no [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► money off the project but they used to [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► literally kick-started they've sold my [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► friend matt bors editorial cartoonist he [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► printed like 5000 copies of the book for [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► fulfilling a thousand order Kickstarter [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► every bookie cells at this point makes a [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► hundred percent of the cost of that book [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► he gets to retain because he paid all [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► the costs of production [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► yeah it's a big tits video we did that [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► actually when we started doing ebooks at [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► macworld was the same calculation which [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► was to sell direct you don't go through [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► a middleman your-your-your unity books [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► they take now we sell through a [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► middleman which sam is on your Apple but [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► it's it's believed me far more efficient [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► than going through a book publisher or [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► magazine distributor and that that's the [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► beauty of this is that you can sell you [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► don't need to sell 15,000 you can sell [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► ten thousand five thousand of whatever [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► you're doing and it comes back to that [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► which is where [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► it's a its audience fragmentation [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► everybody wants to have a best seller [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► but if you were building something that [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► is liked by a small group of people you [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► can you can do that and it's not a [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► failure which it in the past it would [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► have been a failure and know those [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► things wouldn't have existed but even [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► beyond that I think that the motivations [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► are fundamentally different there are [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► different methods for getting the stuff [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► out to people and the the indie [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► producers that are now able to take [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► advantage of these methods not only the [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► big corporations and they can like you [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► know IDG with macworld being able to get [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► more efficient distribution but people [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► who were doing stuff anyway for their [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► own edification can now find audiences [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► and make a profit yes and that's that I [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► think is the fundamental change [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► obviously business efficiencies are [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► really important and where was it this [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► is different [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► yes although i would argue with with [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► macros I mean there is a business [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► efficiency premiere but in the end we [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► wanted to have our content live beyond [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► where was that as editors and so and we [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► without really any business supervision [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► just 19 happened if you're using a book [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► so there's that was a little bit you [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► take the Robertsons and have passion [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► about exactly you would probably speed [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► sitting in your lonely apartment writing [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► articles about the mac if you couldn't [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► distribute them you know how do you know [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► about my lonely person and they believe [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► in taking them to your neighbor's door [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► it's only apartment while I and their [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► jobs well as / picture yeah I'm [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► extrapolating your life if you've never [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► met [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► yeah i thought so haha well played i [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► know that was where you were it's a [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► wonderful I life [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► yeah no it's not it's a lonely apartment [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► with a self-published thing he'd been [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► able librarian no I think all the the [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► business efficiencies that come for [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► traditional channels are terrific but [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► it's really the people who were [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► printings eens and there that can now [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► reach a much larger audience and can [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► make a living it [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► so one of the speakers at XOXO was Erica [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► moen right yeah who described her talk [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► who well she's an indie cartoonist [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► really what kind of into cartoon figures [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► your specialty she's got she discusses [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► many topics in her career things will [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► involves things that go inside of the [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► thing [TS]

00:29:53 ◼   ► yes that's right there based on that [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► make people happy but she her point i [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► think the overall point of her talking [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► to there's an excellent episode of clans [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► podcast the new disruptive read the on [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► another podcast the but was what was [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► really great about that that is that her [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► message was she's now able to be a [TS]

00:30:11 ◼   ► cartoonist for her living and she had [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► never in her life believed that her [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► thing that she loved the most in the [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► world would be anything but something [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► she had to do on the side because [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► artists you can't make a living being an [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► artist and the internet and web comics [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► and building her audience and selling [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► you know books and t-shirts and whatever [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► else she now makes her living as an [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► artist and that's so not only are people [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► getting this art that would otherwise [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► kind of maybe not be visible to them but [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► she can she can do that for her life and [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► that's amazing i want to bring up [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► something that will sound like I'm [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► totally off topic which is not the time [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► you and all I read those new york times [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► article about webcam girls and discuss [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► what I'm talking about anything but it [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► actually was interesting it was him this [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► time no unit is exactly the same [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► economics if you disregard what the [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► woman's job these are women who build [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► and ship out [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► webcams that's probably worth that's [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► right there electronic assembly woman [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► people like to watch electronics being a [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► sentence it'll be fun to watch women [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► assemble electronics there's already [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► unstable severe weather doesn't its [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► rules be going to have very few managers [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► yeah you do around the the next great [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► industry rule 34 is you can see women [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► doing anything you want the including [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► assembly electronics whatsoever but the [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► economics of are identical is that women [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► who used to be in operations you know in [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► its sexual rings and with pimps whatever [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► they're now independent producers they [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► control their environment they keep it [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► much fair percentage as much as fifty to [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► sixty percent of what they make their a [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► safer place [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► they're entrepreneurs they have to [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► employ marketing and it's a direct [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► connection and you're like I'm so i'm [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► actually not being contentious about [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► this site it was reading it going like [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► this is just like this is an independent [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► producer thing yeah and it is [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► disintermediated you know people shows [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► or ok to live pictures in the same way [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► that that yeah so tired [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► haha the disinformation people do that [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► that's that that's the old story that [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► but you know that pornography always [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► finds new technology i mean not really [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► really didn't have any partner it wasn't [TS]

00:32:13 ◼   ► the first time no nerds nerds got there [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► first and only later did pornography [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► rush in but absolutely I it's going to [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► be rushed it and what you get is you get [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► a you get stuff whether it's whether [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► it's webcam girls or its books or movies [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► or TV shows or whatever you get or [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► webcomics you're getting there was a [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► build-up then suddenly haha so you're [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► getting i'm just going to sit here but [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► you're you're getting a greater [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► diversity of stuff to i mean that's [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► that's that's what it's gonna add to [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► turn pivot this from being talking about [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► the creator's talking about that [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► consumed the consumers you you get stuff [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► that would you know it's like wow [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► imagine if he had written more books and [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► it turns out he wanted to write more [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► books but they never sold so you never [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► saw them now you'd see that the artist [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► as executive development is is [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► discoverability how you find this among [TS]

00:33:03 ◼   ► the vast see what's available is I have [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► limited amount of time I person with a [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► publisher was a really good filter right [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► because it's somebody had already found [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► and there are tools for finding out with [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► my friends like and but it's I don't [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► think that's a solved problem yet is how [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► can you find new things [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► the the most worthy new things how did [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► they find audiences they have the tools [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► available to them now but how do you [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► break out how do you get past the noise [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► and I don't think that's assault [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► no word of mouth came up a lot of XOXO [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► and and it struck me because I feel like [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► with with with this podcast with other [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► podcast that I like nobody's ever heard [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► of any of them and I and I'm and it's [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► strange paths like John siracusa worked [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► with a guy whose brother did a podcast [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► and that was the flophouse and junk [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► siracusa told me [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► yeah and I told people on this podcast [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► and i love the flophouse and you know it [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► gets around but it's not like there's [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► you know marketing there are millions of [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► people who would love the uncomfortable [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► billions of people who have less income [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► from just not that I States this is the [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► problem is that we're in the Golan [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► Golden Age of podcasting gentleman and I [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► propose we take advantage of but no this [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► isn't this is a new renaissance Harry [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► this is the new renaissance and [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► podcasting because for some reason we've [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► seen many total explosion new podcast [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► people brought passion back in there is [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► a little more money in the system that [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► helps people are chasing it thanks like [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► this for thanks to our sponsors a panda [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► but but i would say that like that [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► hinders discoverability there used to be [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► when i was at amazon 96 there were I [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► want to say 25,000 new books published [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► by major publishing houses like the top [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► 200 a year and they were like 250,000 [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► books published if you include all the [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► self-publishing small house in ds1 [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► office whatever there are something like [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► if you don't include me but now there's [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► a million-plus books in the united [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► states now published every year and that [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► only counts the number of things that [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► get ISBN and so forth includes ebooks [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► are now half of that how do you find [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► something when there's a million new [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► passat read most of them haha he's [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► forgotten [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► yes was that no help there and then he [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► forgets it so yeah we put on goodreads i [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► mean i have to say that again if you can [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► get in the water somewhere somewhere in [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► the water supply then social media can [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► help then think sites like goodreads or [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► whatever problems you're trapped into [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► the bubble of your friend but that's [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► that's which turned my friends happen to [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► be nerd i love that song trapped in the [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► bubble of my friend of scientists way [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► back to the origin you know how it is i [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► find the kind of the little other things [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► and and it's it's their it I feel it [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► lost sometimes because there's so much [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► out there that i know i'm missing and I [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► i have you should use 12 OCT 10 0 as [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► it's totally unlike most people of our [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► ilk and I want to be able to be a [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► completist but also sample widely and [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► with the a limited amount of time that I [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► have I don't know where to find things [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► that would blow me away that aren't what [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► I'm normally consumer and you can get [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► some of that from word-of-mouth but you [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► know you're missing the things that just [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► didn't like I said we know about the [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► flophouse if John siracusa hadn't worked [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► with dan McCoy's brother [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► I mean that's such a random connection [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► right and and that goes for almost [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► anything that we would discover it's [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► like how do i hear about you named the [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► favorite book favorite artists [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► maybe through luck it got here but [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► there's gotta be [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► would think that this technology would [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► enable us to do as a child and that [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► every problem can be solved with [TS]

00:36:28 ◼   ► technology i'm sure i'm including a [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► personal and emotional problems [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► yeah and you're going on a pit stops all [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► some of that I like that I i want this [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► social problem solved as well and my [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► approach is technological but that's [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► maybe not the right approach that's the [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► hammer i have to hit this particular [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► nail I just that I feel like the [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► allowing people to create was no 8 [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► age-old you know they're painting on [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► cave walls they have an impetus to [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► create now extending my cave paintings [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► there and and for a long time [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► traditional media methods built up in [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► order to distribute this stuff and they [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► became ossified and inefficient and then [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► new technology has come in and and her [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► damaged a lot of that's traditional [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► things while replacing it with new stuff [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► that is more egalitarian more democratic [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► more open to alternative voices you know [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► the the gatekeepers argument well i [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► think that you know but but what's the [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► next step [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► where do we go am I being impatient [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► because we're still undergoing the [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► previous revolution partly really i mean [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► i think we'll what's nice is that is [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► that like now there are also a lot of [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► hammers but you can but one thing about [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► the the only want to be hammered by [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► somebody else and we're back to that [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► again for huh i was thinking it is [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► better but what's interesting about [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► about it all was the indie stuff that is [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► being talked about here is that you have [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► a lot more I know [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► audience participation that's not really [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► the right term but but you have more [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► like direct interaction more people [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► yeah who like your thing who are willing [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► to to to spread that message I mean like [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► I i think with indie game one of the [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► things that they talked about you people [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► that are on getting all this i think um [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► was it straight friends like like they [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► would go and do screenings in different [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► places but they would have volunteers [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► who would like set them up there and [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► like look like advanced people that [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► because they love this thing right are [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► willing to do work half of having that [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► connection you you would go to the mat [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► like I would read books favorite books [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► as a kid and that the novelist was [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► literally [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► the name on the cover and I knew nothing [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► more about them and that that doesn't [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► happen today right i mean that and with [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► made big artist it does but with the [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► smartest you feel like you know them you [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► you hear them on a podcast or you follow [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► them on Twitter and you would go it's a [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► funny thing about human societies in the [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► way we're kind of Wired is you would go [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► to the mat for some because they're not [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► they're no longer this person who is a [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► musician they're like I know that person [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► you have back-channel to them you can [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► subscribe to their twitter account you [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► can read their blog suddenly there's a [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► conversation going on even if it's not [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► my strength I was the writer it's not [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► sign out there I work and then there's [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► much more intimate connection speed that [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► is also i think there's the danger is if [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► there is a jerk there's a problem but [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► why does that happen to you Jason you [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► whippersnapper [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► what are you tired i'm not talking about [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► anybody here know I'm talkin about 10 [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► more now other than that there's a [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► result in sorry I didn't look for [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► recommendations we talked about this [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► before my friends that's like there's [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► people who go for the so from the [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► artist's perspective they now have [TS]

00:39:32 ◼   ► possibly right there's people go to the [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► mat for them they're people who have [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► very little some audience people who [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► read or bi or enjoy their stuff a much [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► smaller audience and true fans but the [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► true fans now have a way to spread the [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► true religion in a way they didn't [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► before right so i have people and it's [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► actually exciting I people are out there [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► saying like you should listen to the new [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► disrupted by the way people how to do [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► these references or or what i read the [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► magazine or whatever i'm working on and [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► it's exciting to Jeff cross those people [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► read his book and you know you should [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► get this book there's usually blog for [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► the only way to spread that people have [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► to find a blog news RSS whatever in the [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► old days the old and it is well here we [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► know and tell you already got 10 years [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► ago but now I think that there's an [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► acceleration is that you get the viral [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► edge and so projects like indie game or [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► things that are going to the glyph is [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► the classic when the ipod or ipad iphone [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► tripod-mounted is a these guys went from [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► zero to you know hundred thousand [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► dollars in 2010 i think it was for this [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► plastic they were x XOXO last year too [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► that's right and they and then they've [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► done stuff ever since but the but they [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► got there because a few people saw it [TS]

00:40:42 ◼   ► was fascinating and pushed it out to [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► some influencers you have the dairy [TS]

00:40:46 ◼   ► fireballs that were [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► and don't dig may come back yet and [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► other sites and things that you go to [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► where if it's mentioned i know somebody [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► like twitter is fascinating where you [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► could have something with five million [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► followers will mention one kind of thing [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► and nothing happens to be like really [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► like LA and it's crickets anything [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► that's another thing and 50,000 people [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► pledge twenty dollars in five minutes [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► yeah it's it seems to me that what we're [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► saying here is that we've revolutionized [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► the ability to distribute and create [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► independently but it's all still really [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► random when it comes to discovery and [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► market is stolen and famous well I mean [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► and that's why you get this tendency to [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► have stuff by famous people stuff by [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► existing artists things like that [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► because they it's a perfect time for [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► there's other ways because they're good [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► they're good at I think that I think the [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► ones that excel this the most are um you [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► know like musical artists and and maybe [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► some writers but I think about the [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► musical artists that have a fan of a fan [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► base that's too small that there they [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► were big they had one hit ten years ago [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► they had four hits 20 years ago or [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► something like that and there you know [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► they can go from effort to every city [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► and and get a thousand people but that [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► there as a you know it's too [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► it's not hot enough they're not they're [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► not a superstar and I think it used to [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► be really hard for them and I think it's [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► easier now I think that some of them [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► saying playing 200 state fairs a year is [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► not a great one looking well they're [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► really retro and if you don't like i'm [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► thinking more like musical artists that [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► whenever they were never the rolling [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► stones and and they were never journey [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► right where they were huge and now [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► they're very small and they replaced the [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► lead singer and still bitter about that [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► but uh sorry journey but that's a lot of [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► podcasts variability we already did our [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► podcast on journey we're going to st [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► mary's pipettes that's just an example [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► which is the other oceans is three [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► sisters to perform years ago they were [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► fairly popular folk song act and one of [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► them is the mother of the rufus [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► wainwright the 1300 former and so [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► they're kind of this circle and one of [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► them tried to raise money think was [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► zeros try to raise money on IndieGoGo [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► and did [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► reach a goal for it because it was so [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► different than anything you've ever done [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► if she'd try to do another album of the [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► kind of stuff people that like her [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► producing for a 30-plus years I think [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► she would have even easily succeeded [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► this trouble for that kind of artist [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► where they want to shift direction then [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► these mechanisms don't necessarily work [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► is kickstarter exbest as either i'm [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► really famous and I want to do a thing [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► that's different than a thing or you [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► know me sort of and I want to do another [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► thing that's so much like the things you [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► like that you'll find this because you [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► want another one of those things you [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► like one of the things about XOXO and [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► about the enthusiasm that we're talking [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► about here for these new methods is that [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► not many people are talking about the [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► failures about the difficulties of his [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► system that that this is a very survivor [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► biased tape on the new strands is that [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► we talked about the successes because [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► they're the interesting things we talked [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► about the people who haven't really [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► working but there are also people that [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► have put their passion into it put into [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► the system and then it doesn't play [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► I thought about doing a couple different [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► to Kickstarter projects and I'm [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► terrified to do it because i'm i'm [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► almost certain that it will fail and it [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► what about your marinated unquestioning [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► fanbase minus minefield looking up on [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► going out myself by myself live and [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► reminded that i was going to do a quick [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► kick start background actually I know [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► anyone with two problems are several [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► problems and I learned a lot from it i [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► started the podcast and change my whole [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► life but that this is over a year ago [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► and one of them was I said the reward [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► levels too high that's pretty clear [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► there's issues there but the other one [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► was people I've never written a book [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► like this i don't have an audience yet [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► the new structures help me build an [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► audience that might be interested in [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► buying a book of the kind of wrote third [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► thing was people thought I was joking [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► because people know I joke and Twitter [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► and I'm like I'm i'm writing a [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► crowdfunding a book about crowdfunding [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► was very mad haha like no really so I [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► think everybody's tender people what you [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► always have a Kickstarter so you could [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► produce a Kickstarter to do your book [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► that's what I'm working on that but it's [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► a variance that was the other hand [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► conception or interpretation but but I [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► didn't you know what the key is can you [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► learn from your failures in that regard [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► and I totally did and I've done a lot of [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► things I feel very successful as an [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► outcome [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► and I'm the new disruptors podcast is my [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► attempt to build an audience says Oh [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► Glenn does this thing maybe a book [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► version of or some other version of this [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► thing that he's been doing for a year or [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► two years would not be worth I don't [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► need to put you on the spot why haven't [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► you talked about that about the failure [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► yeah I did actually SI but you just [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► don't read everything i would not meet [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► every time haha it's a full-time job and [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► salary [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► whens Kickstarter is going to be a book [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► starts a hundred-thousand-dollar [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► genomics it's a book series following [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► our mechanical turk degree the Thousand [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► Islands i wrote a post to the time and [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► actually some forgot the site some site [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► that is the thing which was like haha [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► crowd funding grant money transfer book [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► doesn't go and i taught that doesn't [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► fire and I talked to the guy is like all [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► this is actually you know I'm sorry [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► nearly exactly funny it was like I [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► understand what sounds funny and he went [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► back and he broke something was actually [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► fairly reasonable when i explained like [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► here's the five or six things that are [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► wrong and I didn't cost me that cost me [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► time for us Jeff Rossen shoot the videos [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► that cost him time to but what I didn't [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► have any hard costs feeling into it and [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► then I've developed a whole new career [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► and I think that's awesome and I wish we [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► had more stories like that the this [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► there's hype around this man is just a [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► probable light right but there's also an [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► entire other side of it for things that [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► don't work and how we fix that now [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► before we go really quickly i wanted to [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► because we're running out of time I [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► wanted to go around the table and which [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► is an actual table because we're sitting [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► at a table and just really briefly if [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► you've got some specific thing that you [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► want to mention that you that you've [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► enjoyed or supported that was a an indie [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► project or something that is just out of [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► the traditional means because I know [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► that that's what we usually talk about [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► on the podcast and I wanted to at least [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► able for us to give some shouts out to [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► two ND stuff that we liked Greg to you [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► you haven't some things you want to [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► promote one of the first web comics ever [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► started reading and it was eons ago was [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► lucky freelance and that's actually been [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► going for 16 years now and he's been [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► doing it as a full-time job for 12 I [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► think wow and it is insane [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► it is an epic epic story in comic strip [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► form it's hilarious [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► it's well-drawn you can see his art [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► improving over the past 16 years along [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► with his characterizations and the depth [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► of his story he will [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► reference things from a decade ago and [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► if you happen to have that knowledge it [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► makes the the interaction so let your [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► deeper and so when I started reading it [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► like 10 12 years ago I went back and it [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► during a slow time at work and I read [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► six years of archives and I've kept up [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► with it ever since [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► and that was my first real interaction [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► with somebody who was doing something on [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► the side that had a level of success and [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► allowed him to go ahead and do it [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► full-time [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► alright cool Jeff what about you [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► actually I don't have anything to [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► recommend because i'm on that that that [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► other side which is like like I'm the [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► beneficiary of all of this like there's [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► this great podcast called the [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► incomparable that that that has 11 i was [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► going to recommend that i'll go ahead [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► it's led me to wonderful things yeah [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► yes is the jibber on about yeah just one [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► or two yeah that's got McNulty you can't [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► shut up i'm touching likes but but you [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► know like you for example Jason like I [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► never done you just wanna do dis ruptor [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► your new disruptive i feel like i'm [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► reading comics now because of your [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► recommendation and and and and more and [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► then I think that that you know i would [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► probably miss a lot of the indie stuff [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► like I'm the target market out to say oh [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► like here's something that's interesting [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► and and usually it's because you know [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► like Glenn has has contributed to a [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► kickstarter and because i have had done [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► stuff in the past i get a thing from [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► them saying when freshman did this maybe [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► you will be like right yeah that's [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► totally what so you're the recipient of [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► the word of mouth from these projects [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► and end up supporting some of them are [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► reading the comics or whatever yes [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► you're listening to yeah exactly it and [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► now I want to add one more thing what [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► greg was seen that jack chang who who [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► spoke he wrote a novel called these days [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► one of the things that was great about [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► his talk was that you know he talked [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► about how great it is to to to crowdfund [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► that his is novel which I thought was [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► sort of weird at first like like it [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► can you just write the novel and then go [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► searching for it but you know like the [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► different models but then he said he's [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► like oh and you don't have to quit your [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► day job like this italia sigh thing [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► right and I'm [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► my living doing something else which [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► like sounded kind of refreshing here [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► because it like most of things always [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► get guess somebody somebody understand [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► their jobs seriously considering [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► starting a conference called don't quit [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► your day job is about being an [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► independent content creator he sort of [TS]

00:49:43 ◼   ► fulfilling your dream while also meeting [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► your family your family isn't yeah he [TS]

00:49:48 ◼   ► said I expected value of the speakers [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► will be middle-aged people with families [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► gonna really gonna do it wasn't like it [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► was great to be able to hear that 24 in [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► the afternoon yeah go home to bed now it [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► starts at seven at night and engines [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► love you [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► what about you oh well uh i was looking [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► through i was looking through my [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► Kickstarter back to things because i [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► think i've put most of my effort into [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► supporting stuff that's wound up on [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► kickstarter and I flaming carrot comics [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► they did this great Kickstarter where [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► it's like I don't even know Bob burden [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► the Creator is still alive he's kind of [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► can't figure if he's actually crazy or [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► he has an incredibly good active and [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► sustaining for decades i think its a mix [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► about but he put out a Kickstarter to [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► finish some stuff put it about deluxe [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► collection he threw in all kinds of [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► weird stuff and it's a it's one of the [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► most surreal comics i forgot i even [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► known issues i have a pile of them from [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► the early days and and it was great so I [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► back that and I was delighted to see [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► something that was truly in the end of [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► indie spirit 30 20 30 years ago with [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► they did everything on their own and [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► they kind of went out of some of the [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► comic book labels and come back and see [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► some new material and collection the old [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► stuff very cool and I'm i mentioned a [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► bunch of stuff earlier you have these [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► wool being a successful nanowrimo novel [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► that turned into a successful self [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► published novel that is now a successful [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► actually professionally published novel [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► and it's pretty good so check it out [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► well this wraps up our time in the one [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► in this little room i also want to give [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► a thanks to luma labs for providing the [TS]

00:51:20 ◼   ► space they are the makers of fine [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► product called cinch cinch which if you [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► are a photographer and you want to have [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► your SLR not be annoying to you and [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► readily available to take pictures the [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► Cinch is here we were getting struct [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► yeah that's sort of it kind of murder [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► and go to luma dad has [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► dot-com you put it around your they [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► didn't even know we were going to [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► mention the biggest space and we really [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► appreciate a great conductor for letting [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► us a barge into their space on sunday [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► morning and record this so thanks to [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► them and i would like to thank my guests [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► for gathering around this table Glenn [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► fleischmann thanks for being here [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► I didn't mention Stephen Fry just want [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► you to know you did actually using it [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► nice try nice try Jeff girls and thanks [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► for being back I can't wait till we do [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► another life never liked that the only [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► time I into your life you don't show up [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► on on recording so we live and great NOS [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► thank you again for showing up like I [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► can't wait until we do another life but [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► ya be on the podcast some other time [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► yeah to do you have a family history and [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► science really busy creating yes I know [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► that's right independent content [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► creation of code someone sound like [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► earlier yeah I didn't tell you what I [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► was created planned and then and for the [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► comfortable i'm your host Jason don't [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► thanks for listening and guys did you [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► think anybody noticed that we were naked [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► when we recorded this [TS]