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The Incomparable

344: Metaphors All the Way Down

 

00:00:00   the incomparable number 344 March 2017 [TS]

00:00:10   welcome back everybody to the [TS]

00:00:12   incomparable i'm your host Jason stell [TS]

00:00:13   and we're here it's an edition of our [TS]

00:00:15   book club and Scott McNulty is not here [TS]

00:00:19   ah what you know what happens he's not [TS]

00:00:22   on every book club he doesn't read all [TS]

00:00:24   the books he only read some of the books [TS]

00:00:25   he doesn't remember old and he certainly [TS]

00:00:27   doesn't remember I didn't remember I got [TS]

00:00:30   I got to make confession I didn't [TS]

00:00:32   remember anything about these books but [TS]

00:00:34   i did a reread and so we're here to talk [TS]

00:00:37   about a book from two thousand one and [TS]

00:00:40   another one from two thousand five by [TS]

00:00:43   both by neil gaiman first american gods [TS]

00:00:47   and then we'll also talk a little bit [TS]

00:00:48   about a Nancy boys which is not really a [TS]

00:00:51   sequel but has a lot of connections to [TS]

00:00:54   American Gods doing this now even though [TS]

00:00:57   I read this book whatever 15 years ago [TS]

00:00:59   is because there will be a TV series of [TS]

00:01:02   American Gods coming on the Starz [TS]

00:01:04   Network in the US and Netflix everywhere [TS]

00:01:06   else in the world in the next month or [TS]

00:01:10   month or so so joining me to talk about [TS]

00:01:12   these two books by famous comic book [TS]

00:01:15   writer Neil Gaiman how will he succeed [TS]

00:01:17   as a novelist hmm are the he succeeds I [TS]

00:01:21   forget that he's a comic book writer now [TS]

00:01:22   that's how well he succeeded are the [TS]

00:01:24   following fine people David J laura's [TS]

00:01:26   here hello hello there Monty Ashley [TS]

00:01:30   watch my coin trick whoo now if i stop [TS]

00:01:33   believing in you do you go away I at the [TS]

00:01:37   end of the podcast that's if you don't [TS]

00:01:39   believe in me anymore I go away it's [TS]

00:01:40   true okay pressure on you never forget [TS]

00:01:44   never forget Glenn Fleischmann's also [TS]

00:01:46   here hello hey you always knew I was [TS]

00:01:48   more an idea than a person Jason you [TS]

00:01:50   knew it yeah you're one of the new God's [TS]

00:01:52   the god of Glenn and it's just about as [TS]

00:01:55   long as we believe that they're unlikely [TS]

00:01:57   collect connections between people Glenn [TS]

00:01:59   will remain in existence I was reading [TS]

00:02:01   one of these books between the two days [TS]

00:02:03   I play jeopardy effect so there you go [TS]

00:02:05   Glenny the the thing that's amazing is [TS]

00:02:07   you actually know your dentist's [TS]

00:02:09   relatives god that's true it's strange [TS]

00:02:12   and allene Simpsons also here hello [TS]

00:02:14   hello um so who's starting the war Glenn [TS]

00:02:18   midscale enjoys man it's yeah we didn't [TS]

00:02:21   even need to ask really we knew it I'm a [TS]

00:02:23   trickster god you [TS]

00:02:24   it's true it's low-key Fleishman so I [TS]

00:02:29   you know I've been watching the run up [TS]

00:02:33   to the release of the American God TV [TS]

00:02:35   series and I've been like okay that's [TS]

00:02:36   cool i remember i read that book i [TS]

00:02:38   remember i liked that book then I went [TS]

00:02:40   to the wikipedia page for american gods [TS]

00:02:42   and i look at the plot summary and I [TS]

00:02:43   thought I don't I well no that's not [TS]

00:02:46   true I literally remember nothing about [TS]

00:02:48   a Nancy boys at all and I remember [TS]

00:02:51   really liking it American guides I [TS]

00:02:54   remember some of it but then as I reread [TS]

00:02:58   it because I did reread it I was amazed [TS]

00:03:00   at how much I just didn't remember I [TS]

00:03:04   guess its I feel like I'm becoming Scott [TS]

00:03:07   melty now I I just so little i mean i [TS]

00:03:10   remember shadow and i remember his [TS]

00:03:11   relationship with his with his wife and [TS]

00:03:14   I remember going to the small town and I [TS]

00:03:16   remember the house on the rock I [TS]

00:03:18   remember little bits of it but it was [TS]

00:03:21   really great to revisit actually I [TS]

00:03:22   enjoyed it a lot but it I had no I had [TS]

00:03:25   no good memory of this I assume [TS]

00:03:26   everybody here read it awhile ago I read [TS]

00:03:29   the original release when it came out [TS]

00:03:31   and then I read it again when the super [TS]

00:03:36   expensive Hill House slip cased authors [TS]

00:03:38   preferred edition came out that was [TS]

00:03:41   going to be the only way I could read [TS]

00:03:42   the other ten thousand words and they [TS]

00:03:44   would explain things that Neil Gaiman [TS]

00:03:46   had purposely left out of the book and a [TS]

00:03:49   they did not explain that and be that [TS]

00:03:53   content came out in paperback formerly [TS]

00:03:55   Irina Nancy boys first because I heard [TS]

00:03:56   him interviewed on NPR about it and it [TS]

00:03:59   was kind of stressed you know this isn't [TS]

00:04:00   exactly a sequel so I read that out of [TS]

00:04:03   interest and then I think a couple years [TS]

00:04:06   later picked up in rent american gods as [TS]

00:04:09   I say finishing it between two episodes [TS]

00:04:11   of Jeopardy taping and it was and you [TS]

00:04:14   know seem like a very different book and [TS]

00:04:16   then I Jason had the same experience I [TS]

00:04:17   remembered maybe a little differently i [TS]

00:04:19   remembered that plot much more closely [TS]

00:04:22   but the detail I forgot entire like [TS]

00:04:25   subplots and side trips because it's um [TS]

00:04:28   yeah other gods in particular is the [TS]

00:04:31   definition of a picaresque novel they go [TS]

00:04:34   from place to place to place to place to [TS]

00:04:35   place as game and did but [TS]

00:04:37   and you know it does have an overarching [TS]

00:04:39   theme it comes back but it is you can [TS]

00:04:41   forget some of the picaresque locations [TS]

00:04:42   that are stopped by oh yes now I I read [TS]

00:04:46   it when it came out and got through the [TS]

00:04:49   whole thing and thought wow that could [TS]

00:04:51   have been shorter and then I yeah I mean [TS]

00:04:55   I really like it don't get me wrong I [TS]

00:04:58   love him as a novelist but then when he [TS]

00:05:02   first announced oh I'm writing a book [TS]

00:05:03   that is loosely connected to american [TS]

00:05:06   gods and I thought well I'm not going to [TS]

00:05:08   read that because I already read a lot [TS]

00:05:11   of american gods and but then he kept [TS]

00:05:13   calling it his thorne-smith novel and I [TS]

00:05:16   love thorne-smith and I thought okay [TS]

00:05:18   well if he's if he's really doing [TS]

00:05:21   something in that spirit it's gonna be [TS]

00:05:22   shorter because you can't sustain that [TS]

00:05:25   for 500 pages and and it'll be light [TS]

00:05:28   it'll be fun and so I gotta Nancy boys [TS]

00:05:30   as soon as it came out and I think I [TS]

00:05:33   enjoyed it more although I think [TS]

00:05:35   American Gods is probably the better [TS]

00:05:37   richer deeper more respectable book if [TS]

00:05:41   that makes sense that's that's the one [TS]

00:05:43   that you would put up there on your your [TS]

00:05:45   shelf of great novels that you might not [TS]

00:05:49   ever read again but I enjoy to Nancy [TS]

00:05:52   boys a lot more Eileen what about you [TS]

00:05:54   picture it's San Francisco 2009 em was [TS]

00:05:58   the first time I actually read american [TS]

00:06:00   gods and i can remember it because it [TS]

00:06:02   was actually um I'm a person who suffers [TS]

00:06:05   from chronic illness and I was going [TS]

00:06:07   through kind of a down cycle and working [TS]

00:06:10   with doctors to figure it out and [TS]

00:06:11   American Gods was literally the first [TS]

00:06:13   book I had been able to read in [TS]

00:06:14   something like three or four years so I [TS]

00:06:17   have a very clear picture of reading it [TS]

00:06:19   in the w hotel looking over the Bay [TS]

00:06:21   Bridge like I remember reading American [TS]

00:06:24   Gods very clearly because I've always [TS]

00:06:26   been a voracious reader and then I [TS]

00:06:28   couldn't for so long so for that reason [TS]

00:06:30   I'm really biased toward american gods [TS]

00:06:32   because it was reconnecting me with with [TS]

00:06:35   novels and reading and something that [TS]

00:06:36   that I really really loved and I really [TS]

00:06:39   enjoyed the book and it was the 10th [TS]

00:06:41   anniversary edition know so this must [TS]

00:06:43   have been 2011 actually not she does a [TS]

00:06:46   picture differently slightly differently [TS]

00:06:47   the fog is a different text hang on hang [TS]

00:06:49   on got a week mcallen [TS]

00:06:50   the wall is slightly off a place in my [TS]

00:06:52   heart forever I still love it I still [TS]

00:06:55   love it um I was reading and Nancy boys [TS]

00:06:57   for this and I have the addition from [TS]

00:07:00   barnes & noble that's like I think the [TS]

00:07:02   original edit of american gods and [TS]

00:07:04   Anansie boys and i picked it up and I [TS]

00:07:07   started reading it in preparation for [TS]

00:07:09   this because I was like oh I never got [TS]

00:07:10   around to reading that and I was reading [TS]

00:07:13   and I was like this is a lot like never [TS]

00:07:15   wear this is all standing really [TS]

00:07:16   familiar like there are things we not [TS]

00:07:18   term scenes and that kind of thing and [TS]

00:07:19   I'm like this is this is just never wear [TS]

00:07:21   and then i got like I don't know a half [TS]

00:07:23   half way through or so and i realized [TS]

00:07:26   that i had read this book and because of [TS]

00:07:30   a specific segment home McNulty neatly [TS]

00:07:32   in the penalty I don't have any memory [TS]

00:07:36   ever of reading this book at all I have [TS]

00:07:40   no idea when what happened and I enjoyed [TS]

00:07:43   it but I have no idea when I read it for [TS]

00:07:46   the first time I mean like he's exactly [TS]

00:07:49   right when he called it a thorne-smith [TS]

00:07:50   novel because it is it is light [TS]

00:07:52   inconsequential first that as soon as [TS]

00:07:54   you're done it's gone and you can enjoy [TS]

00:07:57   it again but yeah in reading the [TS]

00:07:59   synopsis I was like oh yeah I do [TS]

00:08:00   remember that that was a really wacky [TS]

00:08:02   funny book about these two mismatch [TS]

00:08:04   brothers who have the heirs to be Anansi [TS]

00:08:07   the spider fortune their brother was not [TS]

00:08:10   quite identical brother I don't quite [TS]

00:08:12   agree that it's all that fun no I don't [TS]

00:08:16   like anyone in a nancy boy well I don't [TS]

00:08:18   take your word for that because all I [TS]

00:08:20   remember is that it was a zany zany book [TS]

00:08:23   but I I didn't reread it and all I've [TS]

00:08:25   got is a Wikipedia summary to go on then [TS]

00:08:27   the main character is fat charlie he is [TS]

00:08:29   a mope and a half for a blue two-thirds [TS]

00:08:32   of the book so I don't like him and [TS]

00:08:34   everyone else in the book is a huge jerk [TS]

00:08:37   to fat charlie all over the time the [TS]

00:08:39   character is supposed to hate and the [TS]

00:08:40   characters were supposed to like all [TS]

00:08:42   just make this guy's life awful a [TS]

00:08:44   hundred percent of their screen time I [TS]

00:08:47   remember finding it amusing and not what [TS]

00:08:50   I expected after having read american [TS]

00:08:51   gods when you hear that he's based he's [TS]

00:08:54   taking a really fun side character for [TS]

00:08:56   one book and he's in the title of the [TS]

00:08:58   next book i personally expected more uh [TS]

00:09:00   Nancy for mr. Manson [TS]

00:09:03   barely in it yet yeah that's that's this [TS]

00:09:05   is true you know one of my favorite [TS]

00:09:06   things so when I was in like second [TS]

00:09:08   grade we listen we like learned about [TS]

00:09:10   full characters from around the world [TS]

00:09:12   and I remember loving and not see the [TS]

00:09:15   spider so I've enjoyed Anansi the spider [TS]

00:09:19   as a concept as a folk tale for most of [TS]

00:09:23   my life and so when I read American Gods [TS]

00:09:25   I was like I got it look I know what [TS]

00:09:28   that it right it was so it was so great [TS]

00:09:29   and I've been coming back to what David [TS]

00:09:32   said about be it being so long one of [TS]

00:09:34   the things I really liked about american [TS]

00:09:36   gods and that in reading it again it is [TS]

00:09:38   long I actually thinking about the TV [TS]

00:09:40   show I was thinking well this is great [TS]

00:09:43   source material for the TV show because [TS]

00:09:46   American Gods feels like a book where [TS]

00:09:48   Neil Gaiman who is English and moved to [TS]

00:09:51   the Midwest he moved to he lived in [TS]

00:09:53   Minnesota for many years when he wrote [TS]

00:09:55   this book he lived in Minnesota and he [TS]

00:09:56   was traveling around the United States [TS]

00:09:58   and I feel like this is the book where [TS]

00:10:01   Neil Gaiman was like all right I'm gonna [TS]

00:10:02   empty my notebook of all the [TS]

00:10:05   observations I've made about America as [TS]

00:10:07   a person who is English and has come to [TS]

00:10:09   America and live there and so it is huge [TS]

00:10:12   and it is digressive and it has details [TS]

00:10:17   that are kind of bizarrely specific and [TS]

00:10:19   and if you were a he was a nobody writer [TS]

00:10:24   and you were a book editor and you were [TS]

00:10:26   like I'm really concerned about how long [TS]

00:10:27   this book is you could cut 200 pages out [TS]

00:10:29   of it pretty from the original pretty [TS]

00:10:32   easily and no one would notice but that [TS]

00:10:35   said I thinking about it my context of [TS]

00:10:37   the TV series one make great material [TS]

00:10:41   background material for building a world [TS]

00:10:43   for a TV series so it's actually kind of [TS]

00:10:46   nice that they've got all that material [TS]

00:10:47   because that he threw in there and uh [TS]

00:10:50   and too he's such a good writer and I I [TS]

00:10:53   forget you know I know about it in in [TS]

00:10:56   concept and then I read his prose again [TS]

00:10:58   and I just think oh my god this guy is [TS]

00:11:00   so good that I'm okay with how how [TS]

00:11:05   digressive it is and how many bizarre [TS]

00:11:06   tangents he takes because it's also good [TS]

00:11:10   that I'm like all right sure let's do [TS]

00:11:12   that for a while but back tell me about [TS]

00:11:14   that ancient god [TS]

00:11:16   sure he's got a knack of building a [TS]

00:11:17   character or a world in like a paragraph [TS]

00:11:20   or two like we meet Anubis and and [TS]

00:11:24   jackal in the book it's just I mean I [TS]

00:11:27   think in like three paragraphs do you [TS]

00:11:29   know where they are you kind of know the [TS]

00:11:30   relationship to one another and you're [TS]

00:11:32   settled in Cairo Illinois right here oh [TS]

00:11:34   yeah which is that we touch yeah it's [TS]

00:11:37   it's perfect the symbol is the thing as [TS]

00:11:40   as mr. Wednesday says yeah oh so we [TS]

00:11:44   should say I mean if you haven't read [TS]

00:11:46   this book why are you listening to this [TS]

00:11:47   but if you have read this book that's [TS]

00:11:48   the premise of it is I mean yeah I mean [TS]

00:11:51   there's some twists and turns I feel [TS]

00:11:52   like it's much more about the journey [TS]

00:11:54   than it is the destination the fact that [TS]

00:11:55   the climax happens and then there's [TS]

00:11:57   another like hundred pages after that oh [TS]

00:11:58   they don't get to the war they keep [TS]

00:12:00   promising that's a problem well that's [TS]

00:12:02   true right so I think the premise of it [TS]

00:12:05   is this premise is that people's belief [TS]

00:12:09   in God's or fairy tales or folk tales or [TS]

00:12:12   whatever creates representations of [TS]

00:12:15   those things in the real world and that [TS]

00:12:17   in this case America and this is [TS]

00:12:19   something i really liked a lot the idea [TS]

00:12:21   that North America is a land that is [TS]

00:12:24   resistance to resistant to giving them [TS]

00:12:26   the level of powers that they might have [TS]

00:12:29   had in the old world but they they are [TS]

00:12:31   still around so if you're an immigrant [TS]

00:12:33   and everybody who lives in in America is [TS]

00:12:36   an immigrant and we even have a segment [TS]

00:12:39   where the initial people who came across [TS]

00:12:41   the land bridge bring their gods with [TS]

00:12:43   them to everybody brings their gods with [TS]

00:12:46   them and then those gods kind of not [TS]

00:12:49   particularly powerful are kind of [TS]

00:12:50   kicking around in America until until [TS]

00:12:53   they are not believed in anymore and [TS]

00:12:56   that is that is the premise of this so [TS]

00:12:58   our character shadow who we meet early [TS]

00:13:01   on he's the protagonist of this book he [TS]

00:13:04   ends up going to work for a man named [TS]

00:13:05   mr. Wednesday who you may discover [TS]

00:13:09   immediately or it may take you 50 pages [TS]

00:13:11   to figure it out is Odin from Norse [TS]

00:13:14   mythology by the way that's Neil game [TS]

00:13:16   its most recent book is a just a whole [TS]

00:13:18   book of stories from Norse mythology and [TS]

00:13:19   we meet many other characters including [TS]

00:13:22   Anansi the spider along the way as well [TS]

00:13:24   as modern gods for the cons that there [TS]

00:13:26   is now people worship other things like [TS]

00:13:29   technology [TS]

00:13:30   and meet mass media and that's bad [TS]

00:13:32   they're in opposition to mr. wednesday i [TS]

00:13:36   get the way they are described clearly [TS]

00:13:39   takes the position that television is [TS]

00:13:41   bad and technology is bad the new things [TS]

00:13:45   are bad and the old things are good is [TS]

00:13:48   that the author or is that just the [TS]

00:13:50   viewpoint of mr. Wednesday who's placed [TS]

00:13:54   himself in opposition to them I believe [TS]

00:13:56   it is the off the ladder it's also 2001 [TS]

00:13:59   the internet was terrible in two [TS]

00:14:00   thousand so it's media at me the way now [TS]

00:14:03   Scott we did you gave a skeptical well [TS]

00:14:05   there I think it's all from Wednesday's [TS]

00:14:08   perspective right he uh we're past the [TS]

00:14:12   spoilery part right picture I mean again [TS]

00:14:14   I will just make it clear if you care [TS]

00:14:16   about what happens in this book don't do [TS]

00:14:18   that so yeah so very early on he [TS]

00:14:20   recruits shadow to work for him and [TS]

00:14:23   shadow is kind of on the side of the old [TS]

00:14:27   gods um just because that's what he's [TS]

00:14:30   been exposed to and so I do think that [TS]

00:14:33   it's from that perspective and not so [TS]

00:14:35   much the author's perspective I mean it [TS]

00:14:38   maybe it's both but I'd never read it as [TS]

00:14:40   a like Neil Gaiman preaching at people [TS]

00:14:43   to not watch TV and stay off the [TS]

00:14:45   freeways I read it as The Clash of the [TS]

00:14:48   old and the new and how does that get [TS]

00:14:50   resolved and how do they view one [TS]

00:14:52   another well we see lots of old gods and [TS]

00:14:55   they're mostly I'm gonna say quaint [TS]

00:14:57   which I'm gonna come back to later [TS]

00:14:59   they're charming okay they're jackal and [TS]

00:15:02   ibis even if they're crooks like [TS]

00:15:04   wednesday or mad sweeney they're fun but [TS]

00:15:07   then we see the new gods and their [TS]

00:15:10   described as fat as smelly and they're [TS]

00:15:16   the ones who are torturing our [TS]

00:15:17   protagonists like just the way the old [TS]

00:15:20   gods are described compared to the way [TS]

00:15:21   the new gods are described i think game [TS]

00:15:24   in very much takes a position here yeah [TS]

00:15:26   although it gets it by the end we [TS]

00:15:28   realize that do gods are dupes also and [TS]

00:15:30   that there is kind of this you know that [TS]

00:15:33   I mean that's we don't really get the [TS]

00:15:34   war because I mean jumping ahead we [TS]

00:15:35   don't get the war because [TS]

00:15:36   it turns out there is the no battle you [TS]

00:15:39   know one group the intangibles have you [TS]

00:15:42   know they it's kind of like gaming gives [TS]

00:15:44   us the truth early on the intangibles [TS]

00:15:46   say well we just think the market will [TS]

00:15:47   work out this eventually we already have [TS]

00:15:49   a war which is kind of what the book [TS]

00:15:51   says ultimately is that the war is a [TS]

00:15:53   concocted thing and these new gods will [TS]

00:15:56   come and go themselves they have no you [TS]

00:15:59   know protection either they'll be [TS]

00:16:00   avenged yeah but just because one group [TS]

00:16:02   of God's isn't winning the war doesn't [TS]

00:16:04   mean that one group of God isn't [TS]

00:16:05   described as being much worse than the [TS]

00:16:08   other group yeah I i agree i think it's [TS]

00:16:10   a pretty harsh depiction i mean its [TS]

00:16:11   course like media offering to show [TS]

00:16:13   Lucille Ball's balls uh you know naked a [TS]

00:16:16   chest is I think one of the most like [TS]

00:16:20   that terrifying it's an ugly thing in [TS]

00:16:23   the book intentionally and it's and it's [TS]

00:16:24   brought back up later it's such an ugly [TS]

00:16:26   idea right and so that's and then later [TS]

00:16:29   you know media is packaged as somebody [TS]

00:16:31   who looked really slick and whatever it [TS]

00:16:32   is like shadow says you know I I liked [TS]

00:16:35   it better when you were just upfront [TS]

00:16:36   about you know being as coarse as you [TS]

00:16:38   really are that's not a positive image I [TS]

00:16:39   will agree I still disagree I do [TS]

00:16:41   understand what you're saying but um I [TS]

00:16:45   didn't I didn't get that at any event I [TS]

00:16:47   think I think we will find out more [TS]

00:16:50   about how named Neil Gaiman feels about [TS]

00:16:52   these new gods because the apparently [TS]

00:16:54   his maybe next novel is a sequel to [TS]

00:16:58   american gods and really the rumor is [TS]

00:17:01   that it's about the new gods and I'm son [TS]

00:17:04   lies about why he would do that I wonder [TS]

00:17:06   maybe theres some timing involved there [TS]

00:17:08   I just feel be good now it's all about [TS]

00:17:10   how great television is everybody exit [TS]

00:17:12   laughing all the time about rats retcons [TS]

00:17:16   the entire book oh my god also just as [TS]

00:17:19   as shadow is learning how to do magic [TS]

00:17:21   tricks you know this story telling and [TS]

00:17:24   this is a part of what this book is [TS]

00:17:26   about is about you know stories and [TS]

00:17:28   legends and things like that [TS]

00:17:29   storytelling can be a magic trick we are [TS]

00:17:32   watching as it turns out a con being [TS]

00:17:36   perpetrated by Odin and Loki we are also [TS]

00:17:39   watching a con being perpetrated by Neil [TS]

00:17:41   Gaiman where he needs to get us to [TS]

00:17:43   really believe that a war between the [TS]

00:17:45   gods is coming between old and new and [TS]

00:17:47   so he's going to ramp up like the [TS]

00:17:49   differences between the old [TS]

00:17:50   new gods because he doesn't want you to [TS]

00:17:52   pay too much attention to what that [TS]

00:17:53   whole thing we rode and talks about [TS]

00:17:55   various cons that her famous that goes [TS]

00:17:58   on for many pages good many many pages [TS]

00:18:00   many pages and is paid off later and so [TS]

00:18:03   I feel like he's you know he wants to [TS]

00:18:05   he's doing a lot of misdirection to he's [TS]

00:18:08   doing a lot of look over there when the [TS]

00:18:10   when the coins over here himself in [TS]

00:18:12   order to sell you into this this premise [TS]

00:18:16   that turns out to and not at all be true [TS]

00:18:18   so I think that that is a part of it [TS]

00:18:20   where he wants you to feel like you know [TS]

00:18:23   yeah I'm for shadow and those new gods [TS]

00:18:26   are bad and but it's actually just part [TS]

00:18:28   of the magic trick this edition of the [TS]

00:18:30   incomparable is sponsored in part by [TS]

00:18:32   John Birmingham's book a girl in time on [TS]

00:18:35   the eve of a huge breakout success a [TS]

00:18:38   poor but brilliant young game developer [TS]

00:18:40   is pulled out of her world and time [TS]

00:18:42   itself by a cowboy desperately searching [TS]

00:18:45   for the daughter he lost 200 years ago [TS]

00:18:48   that is the story of John Birmingham's [TS]

00:18:51   girl in time which sm sterling described [TS]

00:18:54   as a smashing time travel cross cultural [TS]

00:18:56   adventure deranged and brilliant I have [TS]

00:18:59   to say I read it too I really liked it [TS]

00:19:02   and John Birmingham can't pay me to say [TS]

00:19:05   that I liked his book only to talk about [TS]

00:19:07   it but I really enjoyed it it was a lot [TS]

00:19:08   of fun it is a rollicking time-traveling [TS]

00:19:11   adventure star is Katie McCall she's [TS]

00:19:13   ready to be rich and famous the money is [TS]

00:19:15   going to come into her bank from her [TS]

00:19:16   appt sale she's going to be this huge [TS]

00:19:18   successful star and then comes Marshall [TS]

00:19:21   John Titanic Smith who rescues her and [TS]

00:19:24   then they're both lost in time Time [TS]

00:19:27   magazine wrote about weapons of choice [TS]

00:19:28   John Birmingham's first time travel [TS]

00:19:30   novel which we covered in episode 163 of [TS]

00:19:33   the incomparable that it was like a [TS]

00:19:34   clive cussler novel fell into a [TS]

00:19:36   transporter beam with a stephen ambrose [TS]

00:19:38   history and they came out all fused [TS]

00:19:40   together a girl in time is kind of like [TS]

00:19:42   that like your favorite episode of [TS]

00:19:43   doctor who got mashed up with a cowboy [TS]

00:19:45   mythology of Deadwood and justified [TS]

00:19:47   while joss whedon watch to make sure [TS]

00:19:48   that Katie McCall smashed all the key [TS]

00:19:50   performance indicators for a modern [TS]

00:19:52   female hero also and I am not kidding [TS]

00:19:54   about this pineapple and pepperoni pizza [TS]

00:19:57   appears in this book hmm but because [TS]

00:20:01   John recognizes some people are [TS]

00:20:02   understandably frightened a pineapple [TS]

00:20:03   and pet [TS]

00:20:04   brownie pizza and wonder what it might [TS]

00:20:05   do to a book even one as awesome as this [TS]

00:20:07   for the next week he has dropped the [TS]

00:20:09   price of the e-book to two dollars just [TS]

00:20:11   for incomparable listeners two dollars [TS]

00:20:14   right now get it from your preferred [TS]

00:20:16   online bookstore but get it quick before [TS]

00:20:19   that yummy pizza goes cold a girl in [TS]

00:20:22   time by John Birmingham the notion that [TS]

00:20:25   got that God's don't live in America is [TS]

00:20:27   you know it's the plural gods or like [TS]

00:20:29   gods of things gods of concepts and we [TS]

00:20:31   have one you know overarching unitary [TS]

00:20:34   God or try Mary God that swept through [TS]

00:20:37   parts of the world and America it's [TS]

00:20:39   taken strong root but of course Jesus [TS]

00:20:43   the Holy Ghost God the Father don't [TS]

00:20:45   appear in this and in I addition I read [TS]

00:20:47   there's he's like hey at the end he's [TS]

00:20:49   like hey you know well I wrote this bit [TS]

00:20:50   about Jesus I thought how could you have [TS]

00:20:52   this book and none of Jesus appear but I [TS]

00:20:54   didn't want it to be a battle between [TS]

00:20:55   other one governor so here's the part I [TS]

00:20:57   cut out and I read it I'm like yep [TS]

00:20:58   there's a reason you cut this out and I [TS]

00:21:00   like what Gaiman said about that which [TS]

00:21:02   is that in the scenario of his book [TS]

00:21:03   because people ask where's god where's [TS]

00:21:06   Jesus he says he says they're doing so [TS]

00:21:09   well in North America that they don't [TS]

00:21:12   need they're not gonna deal with any of [TS]

00:21:14   this penny-ante business that's [TS]

00:21:15   happening down on this level right guys [TS]

00:21:17   totally we're not talking to Odin Jesus [TS]

00:21:19   will not take Odin's calls okay they [TS]

00:21:21   don't need to go to the corn palace for [TS]

00:21:23   a meetup they're fine yeah exactly right [TS]

00:21:25   and I think that is so deftly of damen [TS]

00:21:28   to be like yes I'm just not gonna even [TS]

00:21:30   get into it right let's he doesn't want [TS]

00:21:32   this to be about um he wants it to be [TS]

00:21:35   about discarded God's garlic gods that [TS]

00:21:37   were brought to the New World and [TS]

00:21:38   discarded that's what he wants it to be [TS]

00:21:40   about ultimately and then he places them [TS]

00:21:43   against sort of the gods that are the [TS]

00:21:45   cautionary tale of oh you're turning [TS]

00:21:47   your television to your God and that's [TS]

00:21:48   the opposition but that's that's the [TS]

00:21:50   story he wants to tell here is really [TS]

00:21:51   about myth and about maybe modern myths [TS]

00:21:55   so it's all you know that's that's [TS]

00:21:58   that's his goal kid can I ask to I feel [TS]

00:22:00   like there's a curious of other people's [TS]

00:22:01   thoughts about this is Miss is a big me [TS]

00:22:04   and rebook with a you know kind of [TS]

00:22:05   wrapper around it and shadow is the [TS]

00:22:07   element that plays through it that kind [TS]

00:22:08   of takes us through the journey and the [TS]

00:22:10   story and he's always on stage even when [TS]

00:22:12   a lot of actions happening off stage but [TS]

00:22:14   the thing with hensel Mon I found [TS]

00:22:15   fascinating and I'd remember [TS]

00:22:17   that from my reading and I couldn't [TS]

00:22:19   remember how it fit into the book and [TS]

00:22:20   even to the point that Wednesday stashes [TS]

00:22:23   a shadow in this place in lakeside this [TS]

00:22:27   bizarrely flourishing community in the [TS]

00:22:30   middle of a depressed area and everyone [TS]

00:22:32   is happy it just kind of has it like [TS]

00:22:34   we're all you know everything is fine [TS]

00:22:36   but everything really does seem fine and [TS]

00:22:38   then all these coincidences pile up but [TS]

00:22:40   hensel Mon is a very interesting [TS]

00:22:41   character he's presented very well the [TS]

00:22:43   town is painted very well and then at [TS]

00:22:45   the end the fact that Gaiman comes back [TS]

00:22:47   and says okay the war didn't happen [TS]

00:22:49   we've finished everything off [TS]

00:22:50   everything's tied up but wait a minute [TS]

00:22:52   there's that guy in Lake ciders than the [TS]

00:22:55   mystery of the missing girl right and [TS]

00:22:57   then in the history of the book that he [TS]

00:22:58   happens to pick up that's the minutes of [TS]

00:23:00   foot down gettin full from uh it's a [TS]

00:23:03   critical part of the story but I feel [TS]

00:23:05   like I don't I feel like gaming is tied [TS]

00:23:07   that together in a way that I don't [TS]

00:23:09   fully get I don't think it's bad [TS]

00:23:11   storytelling it's good storytelling that [TS]

00:23:12   like it's almost like Henzel man is a [TS]

00:23:14   nugget like he's the he's a good thing [TS]

00:23:17   for this town it's you know the is it a [TS]

00:23:20   rotten thing at the corner and again [TS]

00:23:21   think about the ones who the ones who [TS]

00:23:24   walk away from oma loss this is [TS]

00:23:25   basically that story right Ursula K Le [TS]

00:23:28   Guin story it's so powerful is uh you [TS]

00:23:31   know you can have everything you want [TS]

00:23:32   this time to everything will be create [TS]

00:23:33   great we're just gonna kill one child a [TS]

00:23:36   really nice one though the kids are [TS]

00:23:38   going to be great we kill one a year [TS]

00:23:40   except that one year will thrive where [TS]

00:23:41   we got a note of one yeah but but it's [TS]

00:23:44   that notion he's like the people really [TS]

00:23:45   know that's where their bargaining is [TS]

00:23:46   kind of like well I think they sort of [TS]

00:23:48   do and there's so there's a kind of [TS]

00:23:50   rotten or is it a good deal but this [TS]

00:23:53   moral problem that is off to the side of [TS]

00:23:56   all the pic rest stop it happens in one [TS]

00:23:58   place we come back to it I don't know [TS]

00:23:59   people feel about that in terms of the [TS]

00:24:01   structure of the book the thing I [TS]

00:24:02   remember most of this book before I [TS]

00:24:05   reread it was all of the stuff in that [TS]

00:24:07   town and exact that's absolutely that's [TS]

00:24:11   what I remember it's like it's like a [TS]

00:24:12   really great novella inside this novel [TS]

00:24:14   yeah when I think of american gods i [TS]

00:24:17   think of first the hint suleman story [TS]

00:24:19   which i think is great and is so [TS]

00:24:21   grotesque when you learned his true [TS]

00:24:24   origins and the descriptions of house on [TS]

00:24:27   the rock everything else pops out of my [TS]

00:24:29   head [TS]

00:24:30   yeah same yeah I think it's such a [TS]

00:24:32   beautiful little beautiful relatively [TS]

00:24:35   illustration of kind of Shadows a [TS]

00:24:38   metamorphosis as a person in his [TS]

00:24:42   realization of what has been happening [TS]

00:24:45   this whole time like it was just this [TS]

00:24:47   kind of like he was like yeah this is a [TS]

00:24:50   really nice town and OH that hun suleman [TS]

00:24:52   guys kind of interesting with his car [TS]

00:24:54   and his stories he's a great storyteller [TS]

00:24:56   and then all of a sudden that's like [TS]

00:24:57   wait I see what's happening and I think [TS]

00:25:01   that that's such a great illustration [TS]

00:25:02   and such a great tie-in from you know [TS]

00:25:05   earlier in the novel that he's just like [TS]

00:25:08   yeah I figured this out you suck there's [TS]

00:25:11   some great threats to I mean it feels a [TS]

00:25:13   little bit like a again like it could be [TS]

00:25:15   its own thing just just that story cuz [TS]

00:25:18   he gets the book and he know it's oh [TS]

00:25:20   look there's a guy who looks just like [TS]

00:25:21   him suleman in the past right and oh [TS]

00:25:24   won't he like that at one point shadow [TS]

00:25:26   takes the book with him because if he [TS]

00:25:28   runs into him suleman he's gonna show it [TS]

00:25:29   to him and I'm thinking uh oh man this [TS]

00:25:32   is better though everyone you've met [TS]

00:25:34   since you left jail is a god yeah put it [TS]

00:25:37   together right bit but if gentleman [TS]

00:25:39   finds out that it's gonna be like just [TS]

00:25:40   like the the sheriff's dad who figured [TS]

00:25:44   it out he says at the end and had to be [TS]

00:25:46   taken care of and it doesn't come to [TS]

00:25:48   pass he doesn't show the book to Hansel [TS]

00:25:49   minutes on it it's not a thing but and [TS]

00:25:52   Gaiman does this call back to where we [TS]

00:25:54   had a little vignette about the about [TS]

00:25:56   the character who turns into hanselman [TS]

00:25:59   at the very early on in the book that's [TS]

00:26:01   this kind of horrific vignette and then [TS]

00:26:03   that's the callback of like that's what [TS]

00:26:05   you were seeing there is the creation of [TS]

00:26:07   this of this this worshiped figure that [TS]

00:26:10   was a child who was taken away from his [TS]

00:26:12   parents and all that kind of a metaphor [TS]

00:26:14   for America that as a child who was [TS]

00:26:16   raised in darkness and killed brutally [TS]

00:26:18   to serve as the sacrificial there are so [TS]

00:26:20   many minutes I mean they're stacked up [TS]

00:26:22   like the metaphors are stacked up the [TS]

00:26:23   small town is a metaphor the [TS]

00:26:25   storytelling of Hin Suleman is inside [TS]

00:26:27   the storytelling of Gaiman but it's also [TS]

00:26:30   about the storytelling of myths that [TS]

00:26:32   create the gods ah it's metaphors all [TS]

00:26:35   the way down you could pull out Hinch [TS]

00:26:36   lemon entirely and just have you know [TS]

00:26:39   little town they have this quaint [TS]

00:26:41   tradition about sinking and conquer [TS]

00:26:43   clunker every year and now here's the [TS]

00:26:46   twist and it would I think would be a [TS]

00:26:48   lot like the lottery oh yeah one of my [TS]

00:26:52   favorite things about this book by the [TS]

00:26:54   way is that shadow puts down money on [TS]

00:26:57   the time that the clunker goes in the [TS]

00:26:58   water and that's when he sinks the [TS]

00:27:00   clunker when he finds the dead girl in [TS]

00:27:02   the I think the work to check that I [TS]

00:27:04   missed that detail yeah of course you [TS]

00:27:05   did oh yeah it's the time it is it's [TS]

00:27:07   like which I would say is not is not [TS]

00:27:09   following by the rules if you go out [TS]

00:27:11   onto the ice and make it sink at that [TS]

00:27:13   time you don't get your money from the [TS]

00:27:14   lottery I'm sorry its ties into it [TS]

00:27:16   there's a Dirk Gently thing and it's [TS]

00:27:17   actually a common thread and a lot of [TS]

00:27:18   you know science fiction fantasy too is [TS]

00:27:20   that in the Dirk Gently books he in the [TS]

00:27:23   tea time when he people ask him things [TS]

00:27:26   and he gives them he's pretending to be [TS]

00:27:28   a medium at one point he gives Curt [TS]

00:27:30   responses and every single thing he says [TS]

00:27:32   is true and it comes true by the end of [TS]

00:27:34   the book of you have to kind of go back [TS]

00:27:35   and check and I think what was the we [TS]

00:27:37   did an accomplished so that's something [TS]

00:27:39   where it turned out if you checked [TS]

00:27:40   everything that was stated and predicted [TS]

00:27:43   was true as well forgot what it was but [TS]

00:27:45   but in this too is like shadow doesn't [TS]

00:27:48   know he doesn't know he's a god until we [TS]

00:27:50   get well into it although you know it [TS]

00:27:52   sort of becomes more obvious but always [TS]

00:27:54   a half-god at least let me god the [TS]

00:27:57   things he says our arch are there not [TS]

00:28:00   prophetic he doesn't necessarily make [TS]

00:28:01   them happen on that case I guess he did [TS]

00:28:03   but there's like a there's just a [TS]

00:28:05   clockwork well all the coincidences are [TS]

00:28:07   not coincidences is the story of this [TS]

00:28:09   book like everything that we think is [TS]

00:28:11   like oh isn't that lucky it's like no [TS]

00:28:12   that wasn't lucky that was part of the [TS]

00:28:14   the part of the story oh yeah cuz game [TS]

00:28:16   had a gaming how to come back and tell [TS]

00:28:17   us that hint Suleman is the one is the [TS]

00:28:19   reason they're all these coincidences in [TS]

00:28:21   this little town right that he wasn't a [TS]

00:28:22   bad store I'm not a bad writer this [TS]

00:28:24   wasn't hacked waiting yeah loci being [TS]

00:28:26   his cellmate is another good example of [TS]

00:28:28   like you know it's a setup it's a setup [TS]

00:28:30   that's the only at least he puts in [TS]

00:28:32   right game and being a good writer he's [TS]

00:28:34   like alright let me show you how I did [TS]

00:28:36   this trick well yeah I first you think [TS]

00:28:39   it works the other way that like oh I'm [TS]

00:28:41   clever I'm a clever reader I recognized [TS]

00:28:43   that the guy's name was low key liye [TS]

00:28:45   Smith therefore I figured out that [TS]

00:28:47   Wednesday must have learned all about [TS]

00:28:49   shadow from his cell mate oh-ho-ho and [TS]

00:28:51   then it turns out no [TS]

00:28:53   actually wednesday knew before that yeah [TS]

00:28:56   that's good yeah it's it's kind of like [TS]

00:28:58   the way i like to explain Penn & Teller [TS]

00:29:01   is that they they do show you how tricks [TS]

00:29:04   are done but they don't actually show [TS]

00:29:05   you how they do their tricks right and [TS]

00:29:08   then you get surprised again it's like [TS]

00:29:10   they're they're showing you they do the [TS]

00:29:12   trick they show you how to do the trick [TS]

00:29:13   and they still pull something while [TS]

00:29:15   you're showing while you're watching how [TS]

00:29:17   they did it and then Gaiman does that [TS]

00:29:19   very nicely in the double in this [TS]

00:29:21   direction let's talk my shadow cuz he is [TS]

00:29:24   our main character he's an interesting [TS]

00:29:25   guy he's he's in he's in prison we never [TS]

00:29:28   really get a lot of information about [TS]

00:29:29   why he's in prison there's a little bit [TS]

00:29:31   but not a lot he beat the heck out of [TS]

00:29:33   the two guys he robbed the bank with [TS]

00:29:36   yeah walking away with the money but [TS]

00:29:38   they could never prove that he took the [TS]

00:29:40   money and the two guys wouldn't testify [TS]

00:29:42   about the bank robbery so they were only [TS]

00:29:44   able to put him away for three years for [TS]

00:29:46   us oh there you go there you go but it's [TS]

00:29:49   a it's not it's not a big mystery it's [TS]

00:29:50   just handled and it's and it's just like [TS]

00:29:52   and he's not like convicted of a crime [TS]

00:29:54   he didn't commit it's just he did this [TS]

00:29:56   thing he's serving some time he's going [TS]

00:29:58   to get out we meet him in jail and he's [TS]

00:30:02   gonna get out and get back to his his [TS]

00:30:04   wife back in in in town and then [TS]

00:30:08   everything goes wrong cuz it turns out [TS]

00:30:09   that she dies just as he's being [TS]

00:30:12   released that she dies with his best [TS]

00:30:14   friend who's going to give him the job [TS]

00:30:16   when he goes back that they were having [TS]

00:30:17   an affair and it is into this complete [TS]

00:30:20   like destruction of his attempt at [TS]

00:30:22   re-entry into the world where Mr [TS]

00:30:24   Wednesday comes in and then of course [TS]

00:30:26   what's interesting is he goes to the he [TS]

00:30:28   go this is something I did remember he [TS]

00:30:30   goes to the funeral he's completely [TS]

00:30:31   completely confused and and and beside [TS]

00:30:36   himself he flips a gold coin into her [TS]

00:30:39   grave and she comes back to life and [TS]

00:30:43   appears throughout the rest of the book [TS]

00:30:45   mostly as a reanimated a dead body who [TS]

00:30:50   kills people and it's a really [TS]

00:30:52   interesting relationship that they have [TS]

00:30:54   whoops and she was also involved in the [TS]

00:30:57   whole robbery plot somehow but I never [TS]

00:31:02   really explained like at one point or a [TS]

00:31:05   couple points maybe even she [TS]

00:31:07   apologizes for getting shadow involved [TS]

00:31:09   yeah but it's never really laid out how [TS]

00:31:11   she's involved in that exactly and I [TS]

00:31:14   would kind of like to know yeah there's [TS]

00:31:15   that like I said they definitely don't [TS]

00:31:17   seem to go get all the details of what's [TS]

00:31:19   you get the sense there's more to that [TS]

00:31:20   crime then lets on laura is a really [TS]

00:31:23   interesting character right i mean the [TS]

00:31:25   way we meet hers first is this idealized [TS]

00:31:27   you know woman who's the wife of the [TS]

00:31:29   prisoner who's going to finally get back [TS]

00:31:31   to his sweetheart and then we get to see [TS]

00:31:33   her as the oh no but she was actually [TS]

00:31:35   cheating on you behind your back and all [TS]

00:31:36   of that and so we get both extremes [TS]

00:31:39   right and then when we meet her first [TS]

00:31:42   she's already dead but now is also [TS]

00:31:44   walking around which is interesting and [TS]

00:31:46   uh and and so you get this really weird [TS]

00:31:49   ambivalent kind of relationship where [TS]

00:31:51   there's love but there's also an [TS]

00:31:53   acknowledgement that there's [TS]

00:31:53   impenetrable like barriers between them [TS]

00:31:56   not only the the nature of how she died [TS]

00:31:58   which was as a part of having an affair [TS]

00:32:01   with this guy but also the fact that [TS]

00:32:02   she's dead now so you know it's the [TS]

00:32:04   metaphorical and literal reasons why [TS]

00:32:06   they can't really connect and it's I [TS]

00:32:10   just find the whole relationship kind of [TS]

00:32:12   fascinating that there's this great kind [TS]

00:32:14   of love between them and and yet also [TS]

00:32:16   this kind of inseparable barrier between [TS]

00:32:19   them he's very calm about the whole [TS]

00:32:21   thing which is like like she shows up [TS]

00:32:23   dead in his hotel room and asks for a [TS]

00:32:25   cigarette who's like okay sure I'll go [TS]

00:32:27   buy a pack of cigarettes and I'm like [TS]

00:32:28   huh isn't that shadow though like shut [TS]

00:32:31   that's that's a funny things about [TS]

00:32:32   shadow is that he's yeah he he he comes [TS]

00:32:35   across I mean we learn his origin story [TS]

00:32:37   right which was that he was he was a [TS]

00:32:39   picked on bookish kid and then he grew [TS]

00:32:42   and he became treated then he was [TS]

00:32:44   treated like a like a big dumb guy but [TS]

00:32:46   he's actually smart he gets [TS]

00:32:48   underestimated all the time and uh and [TS]

00:32:52   also has this thing where he can he can [TS]

00:32:54   do damage and be violent but but unless [TS]

00:32:59   brought to that point he's just kind of [TS]

00:33:02   easygoing and passive it's a it's a [TS]

00:33:05   fascinating kind of collection of traits [TS]

00:33:06   yeah unflappable uh shadow meet [TS]

00:33:09   Wednesday so early that I feel like [TS]

00:33:12   everything we see from shadow after that [TS]

00:33:14   he's kind of at the point where he's [TS]

00:33:16   like all right God's got it right like [TS]

00:33:19   and he has an attitude that's like you [TS]

00:33:22   know as long as you're paying me I'll [TS]

00:33:23   believe whatever you want buddy that's [TS]

00:33:25   kind of how i feel about like taking [TS]

00:33:27   show like buffy the vampire slayer where [TS]

00:33:29   you always have to have people say oh [TS]

00:33:31   there's no magic spell on you like it's [TS]

00:33:35   been a magic spell every other time Yeah [TS]

00:33:37   right are you sure there aren't [TS]

00:33:39   leprechauns he reminds me a little bit [TS]

00:33:42   of the character Parker from the Richard [TS]

00:33:45   stark Donald westlake novels who is an [TS]

00:33:49   unflappable con man I mean he is you [TS]

00:33:54   know he's out for nobody but Parker but [TS]

00:33:58   there's something of the same kind of [TS]

00:34:01   you know well this is this is the [TS]

00:34:02   situation i'm in I accept it I go [TS]

00:34:05   forward what do I do now and he only [TS]

00:34:08   acts when he has to but this is a [TS]

00:34:10   coming-of-age story to write like he's [TS]

00:34:12   kind of a big guy who never grew up he's [TS]

00:34:14   been a little shiftless he somehow maybe [TS]

00:34:16   his wife or maybe he kind of got into [TS]

00:34:18   that situation committed an act of [TS]

00:34:21   violence it was unusual for him and then [TS]

00:34:23   he's kind of meandering around he's [TS]

00:34:25   never figured out what he does is why [TS]

00:34:26   always think to is that also ties into [TS]

00:34:28   the Laura saying about him you never [TS]

00:34:30   seemed like you were alive I walk into a [TS]

00:34:31   room right as you were there there's no [TS]

00:34:33   presence she's the dead one and she says [TS]

00:34:35   that I'm dead I'm saying this to you but [TS]

00:34:37   I think I mean obviously the whole book [TS]

00:34:40   is a story of him actually achieving his [TS]

00:34:42   power of the father you know the [TS]

00:34:44   Freudian thing your father has to die [TS]

00:34:45   before you actually you know reach your [TS]

00:34:48   own manhood or adulthood this is where [TS]

00:34:50   he learns that Odin is his father right [TS]

00:34:53   that's one of the things that comes up [TS]

00:34:54   in it and it's sort of built to talk [TS]

00:34:56   about his mother traveling around the [TS]

00:34:58   world and he ends up as a kid in San [TS]

00:35:00   Francisco at one point and all that then [TS]

00:35:01   we finally realized that yeah Odin is [TS]

00:35:03   his father and that makes a lot of sense [TS]

00:35:05   then that he was disconnected from his [TS]

00:35:07   like actual life and now this insanity [TS]

00:35:10   that we're viewing of gods and Wars and [TS]

00:35:13   things like that actually is the thing [TS]

00:35:14   that connects him back to reality for [TS]

00:35:16   him and who he is as a person this [TS]

00:35:19   episode of the incomparable is sponsored [TS]

00:35:20   in part by audible do you love books but [TS]

00:35:24   find you never have time to read them do [TS]

00:35:25   you listen to the incomparable book club [TS]

00:35:27   episode having not actually read books [TS]

00:35:29   because you like the idea but never find [TS]

00:35:31   the time guess what odd [TS]

00:35:33   can solve this problem because with [TS]

00:35:34   audible you can get audio books and [TS]

00:35:36   listen to those books you've been [TS]

00:35:37   meaning to read while you're living your [TS]

00:35:39   life while you're on the go wherever you [TS]

00:35:42   are their app is free and works on [TS]

00:35:44   iphones iPad Android Windows Phone you [TS]

00:35:46   name it you can download and listen on [TS]

00:35:47   Kindle Fire 500 different mp3 players [TS]

00:35:50   basically any device you can think of [TS]

00:35:51   will play these audible books and you [TS]

00:35:54   can listen and with audible you own your [TS]

00:35:56   books you access them anytime and [TS]

00:35:58   anywhere go back to them later they're [TS]

00:36:00   not checked out or anything like that [TS]

00:36:01   they're yours to use right from your [TS]

00:36:04   smartphone and there is something called [TS]

00:36:05   the great listen guarantee if you decide [TS]

00:36:07   you don't like the book you chose don't [TS]

00:36:09   worry you can exchange any book you [TS]

00:36:10   weren't happy with for another title any [TS]

00:36:12   time no questions asked now in this very [TS]

00:36:15   episode we discuss the full cast [TS]

00:36:18   audiobook production of american gods [TS]

00:36:21   and how amazing it is guess what it's on [TS]

00:36:24   audible so that could be your book right [TS]

00:36:26   there the full cast production of [TS]

00:36:27   american gods featuring a bunch of great [TS]

00:36:29   actors including dennis boots of Charis [TS]

00:36:32   who once personally insulted several [TS]

00:36:34   members of the incomparable staff it's a [TS]

00:36:37   long story anyway he's a great actor and [TS]

00:36:39   it's a great book so you could check [TS]

00:36:41   that out that could be your audible [TS]

00:36:42   choice or any of the books in our what [TS]

00:36:44   are we reading other than that [TS]

00:36:46   out-of-print book that Glenn's going to [TS]

00:36:47   mention because it's Glenn those are [TS]

00:36:50   unaudible I mean these audibles got at [TS]

00:36:52   all and you can pick it including [TS]

00:36:54   American Gods with the full cast and if [TS]

00:36:57   you like me you're in the kitchen you're [TS]

00:36:58   washing the dishes and cooking dinner [TS]

00:37:00   and you need something to do guess what [TS]

00:37:02   pops some earbuds in your ears and the [TS]

00:37:05   time will fly by as you make your [TS]

00:37:07   kitchen clean and feed your family while [TS]

00:37:09   listening to a great book you can't make [TS]

00:37:13   more time but you can make the most of [TS]

00:37:14   it so turn your cooking time or your [TS]

00:37:17   workout or your walk into something more [TS]

00:37:19   with a free trial at audible go to [TS]

00:37:22   audible.com slash snell to start now [TS]

00:37:25   actually you know one of the things and [TS]

00:37:26   this is neil gaiman moving to minnesota [TS]

00:37:28   from england the poor trails of intense [TS]

00:37:33   cold like shadow at one point goes out [TS]

00:37:35   of the house and says it's pretty cold [TS]

00:37:37   and he's almost dead like a mile layer [TS]

00:37:39   because it's like 30 below and he didn't [TS]

00:37:41   realize it it's like I that's enough [TS]

00:37:44   the details of like how you put tape on [TS]

00:37:45   the windows with like plastic wrap and [TS]

00:37:47   all that and it's like that Neil Gaiman [TS]

00:37:49   learned that because he moved to [TS]

00:37:50   Minnesota but as a native californian [TS]

00:37:53   especially it's like wow I I that stuck [TS]

00:37:56   with me that this town where it's [TS]

00:37:58   intensely cold like that just amazing [TS]

00:38:00   detail not nothin do with God's it's [TS]

00:38:02   just like it's really cold that was [TS]

00:38:04   really that's the most terrifying thing [TS]

00:38:05   in the book for you isn't it yeah it's [TS]

00:38:07   30 below are you kidding forget that [TS]

00:38:09   it's just spectacular so that's another [TS]

00:38:11   little just evocative part there's so [TS]

00:38:14   much of akut of stuff in here we haven't [TS]

00:38:15   even mentioned at least other than as an [TS]

00:38:18   aside lots of little short stories in [TS]

00:38:21   this entire book about like how this how [TS]

00:38:23   somebody came to America from somewhere [TS]

00:38:26   and brought their God along with them [TS]

00:38:27   and there are many of those and those [TS]

00:38:29   are all pretty great too I mean I kid [TS]

00:38:31   about you know I read a lot of american [TS]

00:38:34   gods and all that but it reminded me of [TS]

00:38:36   Isak Dinesen it reminded me of Italo [TS]

00:38:39   Calvino with with just these sort of [TS]

00:38:41   side stories about God's and myth and it [TS]

00:38:44   was just that I loved I didn't mind that [TS]

00:38:47   I actually I almost didn't care about [TS]

00:38:49   the plot of the book I really preferred [TS]

00:38:51   the little digression if we're getting [TS]

00:38:54   snooty it reminds me a little of the [TS]

00:38:55   second part of Don Quijote which is also [TS]

00:38:58   very much a story about stories in that [TS]

00:39:00   the story will come to a complete stop [TS]

00:39:02   so somebody can tell you a story well [TS]

00:39:07   that's what I say like if you were [TS]

00:39:09   looking at this as a book editor you [TS]

00:39:10   could have paired this way back to with [TS]

00:39:13   a fun story fun fantasy story right but [TS]

00:39:16   Gaiman has enough clout that he's gonna [TS]

00:39:19   be listened to and and he's so good at [TS]

00:39:23   it I mean this is I want to come back to [TS]

00:39:24   this like when he was writing this book [TS]

00:39:27   he was I mean he wrote never wear it's [TS]

00:39:29   true but like he was famous comic book [TS]

00:39:33   writer Neil Gaiman right he pretty miss [TS]

00:39:36   comic book writer Neil Gaiman and he [TS]

00:39:38   writes american gods and I read it and I [TS]

00:39:43   think well I mean now it's a lot less [TS]

00:39:45   obvious a lot more obvious right because [TS]

00:39:47   we know Neil Gaiman now but I read it [TS]

00:39:49   and I think damn this guy was so good [TS]

00:39:52   like never where is good but it's not on [TS]

00:39:55   the level of american gods in terms of [TS]

00:39:57   his just like [TS]

00:39:57   you're writing skill I think he'd done [TS]

00:40:00   half of Good Omens I don't like Good [TS]

00:40:02   Omens I don't like Good Omens at all I [TS]

00:40:05   like Good Omens very much okay and I [TS]

00:40:07   like never wear to never wear is a good [TS]

00:40:09   book but i don't i don't like gas but [TS]

00:40:11   paragraphs and never wear and go like oh [TS]

00:40:13   my god this guy is such a good writer [TS]

00:40:15   and in american gods i did that all the [TS]

00:40:17   time i was thinking about the whiskey [TS]

00:40:20   jack business in terms of the writing [TS]

00:40:21   where they call him whiskey jack and [TS]

00:40:23   heat over a few pages in the shadows [TS]

00:40:26   thinking in his head doesn't there's too [TS]

00:40:28   many syllables there not saying whiskey [TS]

00:40:30   jack but they keep saying whiskey jack [TS]

00:40:31   whiskey jack and then after a little [TS]

00:40:33   while introduces the we skated jack or [TS]

00:40:35   whatever pronunciation is and but it's [TS]

00:40:37   slow and so you're hearing shadow here's [TS]

00:40:40   something wrong and interpret it in a [TS]

00:40:43   different way and i thought was very [TS]

00:40:44   clever but it didn't bug because I'm [TS]

00:40:47   like I have this little itch in my head [TS]

00:40:48   like okay it's not whiskey Jack what is [TS]

00:40:49   it is he gonna tell us is he gonna tell [TS]

00:40:51   us and the story progresses and it's [TS]

00:40:52   like oh it's just more complicated to [TS]

00:40:54   say name I think there's a lot of [TS]

00:40:55   respect for Native Americans in this [TS]

00:40:57   book that I appreciate too if you're [TS]

00:40:58   going to talk about American Gods you [TS]

00:41:00   need to talk about the Native American [TS]

00:41:02   Gods too and so I like that we have it [TS]

00:41:03   we have a Native American character in [TS]

00:41:05   Sam and we have a Native American God [TS]

00:41:08   and then we have the story of them [TS]

00:41:10   coming because the Native Americans were [TS]

00:41:12   also immigrants thousands of years ago [TS]

00:41:15   to this continent and we get that story [TS]

00:41:17   too and I like all of that all that [TS]

00:41:19   stuff is is is is pretty cool too and [TS]

00:41:21   it's just mixed into the pot and it's [TS]

00:41:23   gaming's game and saying everybody [TS]

00:41:25   brought their baggage with them when [TS]

00:41:26   they came here this is a story as old as [TS]

00:41:28   time like in fact it's the it's the [TS]

00:41:30   Egyptians came here which is also by the [TS]

00:41:32   way I would say it's really cool but [TS]

00:41:33   totally not supported by historical [TS]

00:41:35   records but but the Egyptians came to [TS]

00:41:37   the Mississippi River sure why not and [TS]

00:41:40   then we know that the Norse came to take [TS]

00:41:42   you north america around a thousand they [TS]

00:41:45   all brought their baggage with them and [TS]

00:41:46   left it here he's great even works in [TS]

00:41:49   that that scout in the the tribe that's [TS]

00:41:51   kind of coming over the land bridge [TS]

00:41:52   whose gender bending and his you know as [TS]

00:41:54   a scout was perceived as a man and does [TS]

00:41:56   a man's job and is married and that has [TS]

00:41:58   a child you know through whatever [TS]

00:42:00   offices and I was like that my [TS]

00:42:02   recollection I don't have a [TS]

00:42:03   of anthropological history but my [TS]

00:42:05   recollection is that is common across [TS]

00:42:06   many cultures is that men and women had [TS]

00:42:08   more fluid roles depending what was [TS]

00:42:10   needed they would step into a gender [TS]

00:42:12   role as opposed to being required to be [TS]

00:42:13   of that gender or being of a fixed [TS]

00:42:16   gender I like the also i think one of [TS]

00:42:18   the most beautiful and heartbreaking [TS]

00:42:20   moments in is the story about the about [TS]

00:42:23   the first people coming to north america [TS]

00:42:26   oh yeah and the end of that which is [TS]

00:42:27   basically like those people stayed but [TS]

00:42:29   of course the some of them stayed but [TS]

00:42:31   the others moved on and they created [TS]

00:42:34   other tribes and all of that and then [TS]

00:42:35   you know many thousands of years later [TS]

00:42:36   some of those descendants came back to [TS]

00:42:40   this original valley which was the first [TS]

00:42:42   valley that was that was lived in and [TS]

00:42:43   killed all the people who are there and [TS]

00:42:46   found destroyed their God and found [TS]

00:42:48   their God in the cave and threw it down [TS]

00:42:50   a ravine it's like it's so sad but [TS]

00:42:52   that's the depth that's deep history [TS]

00:42:54   right deep human history of tens of [TS]

00:42:56   thousands of years not even knowing that [TS]

00:42:58   those were the first there were their [TS]

00:43:00   relatives and the first place that they [TS]

00:43:03   as a people landed in this continent [TS]

00:43:05   it's just it's yeah it's tragic and [TS]

00:43:07   beautiful oh alright he had to make up [TS]

00:43:09   the details but the overall story is [TS]

00:43:12   certainly accurate right yeah yeah yeah [TS]

00:43:14   that's what the that's what the history [TS]

00:43:16   shows yeah um I'm a big fan of channel [TS]

00:43:18   bog I think he is a 1 i've not chapter [TS]

00:43:21   it's great character Wow well maybe I am [TS]

00:43:26   Chernabog maybe I'm bila Bhagat depends [TS]

00:43:28   it depends on the season yeah but I just [TS]

00:43:30   I love that sort of weird flat with [TS]

00:43:32   these old Slavic people who are gods but [TS]

00:43:34   also you know over boiling vegetables [TS]

00:43:36   and just the he comes from almost a [TS]

00:43:41   different book but he sort of fits in [TS]

00:43:42   like like a Nazi like you feel like [TS]

00:43:44   they're visiting from another story into [TS]

00:43:46   this story and there's a whole other [TS]

00:43:48   world I mean which leads us to not see [TS]

00:43:50   boys but but cherub ah I think there's [TS]

00:43:52   just this the fact is he's sort of [TS]

00:43:54   resigned to his fate he figures he's [TS]

00:43:56   eventually gonna die out all the people [TS]

00:43:58   believe them are gone he's a pretty dark [TS]

00:44:00   God he liked human sacrifice that was [TS]

00:44:02   part of what he was about and they've [TS]

00:44:04   all these great forces arrayed and and [TS]

00:44:07   then he gets you know he he gets younger [TS]

00:44:09   because he sort of absorbs energy from [TS]

00:44:11   the fight and that bet he makes that [TS]

00:44:13   wonderful moment when shadow [TS]

00:44:15   Isis he has to put something at stake to [TS]

00:44:16   make it real and it's kind of a little [TS]

00:44:18   bit of shifting point that's when Zoey a [TS]

00:44:21   bowl and Shania takes him off and gives [TS]

00:44:24   him the moon and so forth but it's this [TS]

00:44:25   great thing it's like he puts himself on [TS]

00:44:27   the line it's like okay well some point [TS]

00:44:29   we're all done you come back and I'm [TS]

00:44:30   going to hit you in the head with a [TS]

00:44:31   hammer and kill you so I was like all [TS]

00:44:33   right and then I'll win the next game [TS]

00:44:34   you come with this okay that's the deal [TS]

00:44:36   and he's always hanging over us for the [TS]

00:44:38   rest of the novel even though we're [TS]

00:44:39   pretty sure I mean I was pretty sure the [TS]

00:44:40   first time I read this that it wasn't [TS]

00:44:42   gonna end with shouting his head bashed [TS]

00:44:43   in right that was good that knew [TS]

00:44:45   something would happen yeah now he's fun [TS]

00:44:47   he's a cranky old man like can't cranky [TS]

00:44:49   crusty old guy who's Katie was young [TS]

00:44:51   good cuz cuz by the undies younger he [TS]

00:44:53   looks healthier and he becomes bulabog [TS]

00:44:55   because the world is changing it was a [TS]

00:44:57   brighter world and the three sisters are [TS]

00:44:59   cool there's I mean we could go on [TS]

00:45:00   forever about the all the details [TS]

00:45:02   because there are a lot of really [TS]

00:45:03   interesting characters we mentioned mr. [TS]

00:45:06   ibis and jackal oh I love this drives [TS]

00:45:09   and they were on the funeral home that's [TS]

00:45:11   a great bit i love i love that they're [TS]

00:45:14   just they're a lot of really interesting [TS]

00:45:16   gods that we meet along the way and i [TS]

00:45:18   love that they're all kind of down on [TS]

00:45:19   their luck that's why we meet them is [TS]

00:45:21   that they're not really worshipped so [TS]

00:45:23   much anymore and and they just have to [TS]

00:45:25   make do and get by and they tell horror [TS]

00:45:28   stories of like gods that they've known [TS]

00:45:29   who have fallen on even harder times [TS]

00:45:31   like whoever it is who ends up just [TS]

00:45:34   being a bird I'm eating roadkill Oh [TS]

00:45:37   Horace Horace Horace goes mad and yeah [TS]

00:45:40   it's just a bird most the time yeah I [TS]

00:45:42   would like to briefly complain about the [TS]

00:45:45   forgotten God if I may everybody wants [TS]

00:45:47   to good all right there is a character [TS]

00:45:50   who Neil Gaiman goes out of his way to [TS]

00:45:53   describe as rich and at the center of [TS]

00:45:59   things but that shadow cannot remember [TS]

00:46:01   at all beautifully presented and on the [TS]

00:46:03   face of it I think that's really cool [TS]

00:46:05   however I also think Neil Gaiman had a [TS]

00:46:08   specific God in mind he said yes there [TS]

00:46:10   is a specific God that can be figured [TS]

00:46:12   out and I think that it completely fails [TS]

00:46:15   to describe whatever God he's picking [TS]

00:46:17   whether it's Hades which is a lot of [TS]

00:46:19   people's guests at one point the faq on [TS]

00:46:22   his website somebody asked who is it and [TS]

00:46:25   then he said well I was going to answer [TS]

00:46:26   but then I got this other email saying [TS]

00:46:28   please don't [TS]

00:46:28   people so now I'm never going to answer [TS]

00:46:30   that question isn't it beautiful for it [TS]

00:46:32   to be undefined like that that it's the [TS]

00:46:34   reminds me of the silence and Doctor Who [TS]

00:46:36   right you look away and you can't [TS]

00:46:38   remember anymore its kind of really cool [TS]

00:46:39   in the story and do we need to know it's [TS]

00:46:41   a story it's made up sometimes not all [TS]

00:46:43   the parts of a story fit I thought it [TS]

00:46:45   was the invisible hand of the market [TS]

00:46:46   except he explicitly states that the [TS]

00:46:48   intangibles are modern and they are the [TS]

00:46:50   invisible hand of the market as it but I [TS]

00:46:52   think you know the invisible here the [TS]

00:46:53   market goes back like it's an economic [TS]

00:46:55   fact for hundreds of years as a as a [TS]

00:46:58   concept but he said no it's part of the [TS]

00:47:00   stock market so it's not invisible and [TS]

00:47:01   many people come up with many guesses [TS]

00:47:04   and again I'm gonna say Neil claims it's [TS]

00:47:07   a specific God I like that as a concept [TS]

00:47:09   though it didn't bother me that I didn't [TS]

00:47:10   know who it was but i think i started [TS]

00:47:12   reading the book i saw some reference to [TS]

00:47:14   it that you never find out who it was [TS]

00:47:15   and so when i read the book again i was [TS]

00:47:17   like oh yeah i'm never gonna find out so [TS]

00:47:19   i just cope with that if it hadn't been [TS]

00:47:21   a real god i would love it because it [TS]

00:47:23   would be Oh somebody we forgot although [TS]

00:47:24   this forgotten God is doing really well [TS]

00:47:26   for himself but instead he got kind of [TS]

00:47:29   cute about it and said oh and somebody [TS]

00:47:32   but I'm not gonna tell you who it is [TS]

00:47:33   yeah it's not somebody and I'm honestly [TS]

00:47:38   okay with that that does yeah me too [TS]

00:47:40   yeah Monty's angry at neil gaiman's post [TS]

00:47:42   publishing statements about the book not [TS]

00:47:44   the actual text of the book yourself in [TS]

00:47:46   this case right I want to move on and [TS]

00:47:47   just let everybody I mean I think [TS]

00:47:49   American Gods is the is the most notable [TS]

00:47:52   work here to talk about but I did leave [TS]

00:47:53   some time because I know some people [TS]

00:47:54   read or reread Monty hi uh Nancy boys [TS]

00:47:58   for this and we talked about it a little [TS]

00:47:59   at the beginning but if there are things [TS]

00:48:01   to talk about if you've got some things [TS]

00:48:03   to say about an NC boys as the follow-up [TS]

00:48:05   it it's unclear whether it really fits [TS]

00:48:07   in the Canon or not mr. Nancy is ended [TS]

00:48:10   only a little bit as a ghost cuz the [TS]

00:48:11   whole story is that mr. Nancy dies and [TS]

00:48:13   he's got two sons that are a mismatched [TS]

00:48:16   pair of sons who are the legacy to the [TS]

00:48:18   Anansi again spiritual fortune ? kind of [TS]

00:48:22   thing that's going on so Monty anything [TS]

00:48:26   more to say about a nancy boy is not [TS]

00:48:27   really i mean it it is a much lighter [TS]

00:48:29   book yeah it has themes but not deep [TS]

00:48:34   themes it is more more of a farce to [TS]

00:48:36   write down to the fact that like spider [TS]

00:48:38   spider pretends to be charlie and [TS]

00:48:42   ends up having sex with Charlie's fiance [TS]

00:48:45   and I mean it's like wow it is meant to [TS]

00:48:49   be like a bedroom farce with God's kind [TS]

00:48:51   of thing and insert yes and oh boy I [TS]

00:48:54   didn't realize my family was just so [TS]

00:48:56   crazy uh-huh and and I don't mean that [TS]

00:48:58   in like it's a fun book but it is a [TS]

00:49:00   wacky book I like the thing he brings up [TS]

00:49:04   a few times in the book which is that [TS]

00:49:05   all stories are Anansie stories even if [TS]

00:49:09   a Nancy doesn't win because stories are [TS]

00:49:12   now about cleverness and smartness [TS]

00:49:15   instead of being Tiger stories which are [TS]

00:49:18   all about winning through brute force [TS]

00:49:21   and strength the thing the one thing [TS]

00:49:22   that I remember from this book and it's [TS]

00:49:24   actually I didn't remember that it was [TS]

00:49:26   from this book until I read the summary [TS]

00:49:28   and I was like oh that's what that book [TS]

00:49:29   is is the climax happening on the [TS]

00:49:31   Caribbean islands yeah which is good [TS]

00:49:34   every 30 dramatic at the end there [TS]

00:49:36   that's like the the stakes are raised [TS]

00:49:37   and there's the there's a Caribbean [TS]

00:49:39   island and I think there's a storm and [TS]

00:49:42   yeah yeah well what's weird is when the [TS]

00:49:44   big climax happens both fat charlie and [TS]

00:49:47   spider are often in some kind of [TS]

00:49:49   beginning of the world nether realm so [TS]

00:49:51   they're not actually involved in saving [TS]

00:49:53   the fiancĂ© and her mother now save [TS]

00:49:56   themselves I I have a I have a something [TS]

00:49:59   I want to bring up there that ties in [TS]

00:50:01   both American God at scotts and anansi [TS]

00:50:03   boys which was the the representation of [TS]

00:50:05   consent and we talked about this little [TS]

00:50:06   on / before we do the podcast to which [TS]

00:50:10   is uh you know I felt it's worse than [TS]

00:50:11   anansi boys because I feel like it's [TS]

00:50:13   handled trivially that that uh Rosie fat [TS]

00:50:17   Charlie's fiancee she's like I'm not [TS]

00:50:20   gonna have no not gonna sleep over I'm [TS]

00:50:22   not gonna have sex with you before we [TS]

00:50:23   get married and then shadow waltzes in [TS]

00:50:25   and it basically says you're gonna have [TS]

00:50:26   sleeping she's like okay yeah I'm sorry [TS]

00:50:29   spider but yeah spider walks in and says [TS]

00:50:30   you'll have sex with me and she's like [TS]

00:50:32   great and and there's no consequence to [TS]

00:50:35   that she slaps him when she discovers [TS]

00:50:37   and that's the end of that and I felt [TS]

00:50:39   both that and then the representation of [TS]

00:50:42   mr. Wednesday's having to you know sort [TS]

00:50:45   of insatiable need to consume young [TS]

00:50:48   women even underage women and at one [TS]

00:50:50   point a notes that one of the things he [TS]

00:50:52   learned while I was on the World Tree [TS]

00:50:54   was that after he'd had them they would [TS]

00:50:56   never have another man again well it was [TS]

00:50:59   rather harsh and so there's there's [TS]

00:51:00   these different angles I was thinking in [TS]

00:51:02   anansi boys in particular reminded me of [TS]

00:51:04   like the one of the flaws with revenge [TS]

00:51:06   of the nerds is that when the character [TS]

00:51:08   has sex with the Darth Vader mask on [TS]

00:51:09   with the sports guy's girlfriend and [TS]

00:51:12   she's and she doesn't know and he takes [TS]

00:51:14   it off and she's like oh you know [TS]

00:51:15   essentially oh that was great you know [TS]

00:51:16   and he's like yeah and it's at when he's [TS]

00:51:18   actually just raped her and I felt a [TS]

00:51:21   little bit of that in this book I know [TS]

00:51:22   it's not exactly you know it's not a I [TS]

00:51:27   don't think it's a depiction of sexual [TS]

00:51:29   assault per se but it comes really close [TS]

00:51:31   to not making it a bad thing well I [TS]

00:51:36   think that's on purpose like not telling [TS]

00:51:38   you anything you don't know but Zeus got [TS]

00:51:41   up to some stuff he was a really [TS]

00:51:45   attractive swan what are you talking [TS]

00:51:47   about yeah but I think there's a [TS]

00:51:49   consequence to his Zeus never gets wet I [TS]

00:51:51   mean it's it's not just a presentation [TS]

00:51:53   is the consequence is that mr. Wednesday [TS]

00:51:55   and mr. Wednesday the consequences he [TS]

00:51:57   gets killed and he doesn't come back [TS]

00:51:59   because shadow is to sort of won't let [TS]

00:52:02   him come back you know Laura maybe [TS]

00:52:03   Laura's the the analog or the the [TS]

00:52:07   representation of you know that force [TS]

00:52:08   that prevents him because she's the one [TS]

00:52:11   who ultimately destroys their ability [TS]

00:52:12   Loki and he to to recreate themselves so [TS]

00:52:15   there is some adventure in anansi boys [TS]

00:52:17   there isn't it's I did like the bit [TS]

00:52:19   anansi boys when spider says later you [TS]

00:52:21   know he could have forced her to be with [TS]

00:52:23   him but he said even human be didn't [TS]

00:52:25   snow and eventually become resentful [TS]

00:52:27   even while you're forcing them to do [TS]

00:52:29   something but I didn't feel like there [TS]

00:52:30   was a resolution it suffer for it didn't [TS]

00:52:34   suffer for what he'd done I agree with [TS]

00:52:36   that spider says that he rarely learns [TS]

00:52:41   women's names and mr. Wednesday says [TS]

00:52:44   something like I've never been that [TS]

00:52:46   worried about legality and both of those [TS]

00:52:48   things kind of pass uncommented on [TS]

00:52:51   that's yeah yeah well and in in American [TS]

00:52:56   Gods you know again you've got the [TS]

00:52:57   analog of Zeus and all that and yeah so [TS]

00:53:00   I think that is very intentional where [TS]

00:53:02   is it a Nancy boys I don't know how [TS]

00:53:05   I mean it could be but you know again [TS]

00:53:08   all through the writing of it because I [TS]

00:53:10   followed his blog while he was doing it [TS]

00:53:12   and you know it's just like this is my [TS]

00:53:14   thorne-smith novel in it and for a long [TS]

00:53:15   time that was all he called it that was [TS]

00:53:17   the only detail you knew about it most [TS]

00:53:19   people are like who the hell's [TS]

00:53:20   thorne-smith and it is a little more Bly [TS]

00:53:25   than it's attitudes towards towards the [TS]

00:53:28   sex farce because you it can't bear the [TS]

00:53:32   weight right in a sex farce it's [TS]

00:53:35   ostensibly a violent act that's not [TS]

00:53:37   portrayed as such you could are a game [TS]

00:53:38   and tries to redeem it later because [TS]

00:53:40   Rosie realizes she fell in love with [TS]

00:53:42   spider not with fat Charlie a spider so [TS]

00:53:46   maybe it wasn't as unconcerned sayville [TS]

00:53:49   to guide her along but I still feel like [TS]

00:53:51   I guess that's the thing is like you [TS]

00:53:52   can't have like the fact that she [TS]

00:53:54   slapped him and that's the consequence [TS]

00:53:55   like okay well we've dealt with this [TS]

00:53:57   issue of misrepresentation and being [TS]

00:54:00   ordered to have sex let's move on you [TS]

00:54:02   know I don't know I think Damon is [TS]

00:54:03   generally very progressive and is in [TS]

00:54:05   when he does something that it's period [TS]

00:54:08   he also has something that's really [TS]

00:54:09   awful that happens to the person so did [TS]

00:54:12   you get that doesn't mean anything he [TS]

00:54:16   has awful things happen to all his [TS]

00:54:17   characters all the time the Zeus thing [TS]

00:54:19   is what struck me about it in American [TS]

00:54:21   Gods is there is that scene the most [TS]

00:54:23   notable seen is that shadow and [TS]

00:54:25   Wednesday gets served by a very young [TS]

00:54:27   waitress like a seventeen-year-old [TS]

00:54:29   waitress in a diner and he keeps talking [TS]

00:54:33   to her in this kind of gross old man [TS]

00:54:35   trying to say charming things to her and [TS]

00:54:37   then you realize at some point that he [TS]

00:54:39   has God powers and he can just make her [TS]

00:54:41   come to his hotel room and service him [TS]

00:54:43   later and I read that as being first off [TS]

00:54:47   you can't read it without thinking this [TS]

00:54:49   is bad so I judged it and I felt like [TS]

00:54:52   the author makes it clear that it's [TS]

00:54:54   something that you should judge and then [TS]

00:54:56   too I just I felt like this is this is [TS]

00:54:58   the thing about these gods is that they [TS]

00:55:00   have these powers and they abuse them [TS]

00:55:01   and it goes all the way back to stories [TS]

00:55:04   from Greek and Roman mythology about [TS]

00:55:05   God's having sex with mortals and [TS]

00:55:08   creating you know demigods and doing [TS]

00:55:11   whatever they want and not caring about [TS]

00:55:13   how it affects the mortal people so you [TS]

00:55:17   know maybe that was me bringing my own [TS]

00:55:19   read into it but in that scene American [TS]

00:55:20   Gods I mean I I felt like I see what [TS]

00:55:22   he's doing here that I am meant to be [TS]

00:55:24   horrified I am in to think of things [TS]

00:55:26   like Zeus and so it worked for me on [TS]

00:55:29   that level i didn't need I didn't need [TS]

00:55:30   more from the author in terms of he got [TS]

00:55:33   it across to me about what was happening [TS]

00:55:34   and shadow shadow doesn't do anything [TS]

00:55:36   but I feel like shadow is being his past [TS]

00:55:38   himself which is you know he kind of [TS]

00:55:40   doesn't know what he what he could do [TS]

00:55:42   but and mr. Wednesday dies forever so [TS]

00:55:44   there is that I would like to briefly [TS]

00:55:45   talk about roadside attractions yes [TS]

00:55:48   which are a huge theme in this book yes [TS]

00:55:51   this is neil gaiman coming to america [TS]

00:55:52   and being like wow here is the thing [TS]

00:55:54   that it exists but i did not know about [TS]

00:55:57   and i'm gonna work it into my book and [TS]

00:55:58   say that these are places of power in [TS]

00:56:00   American mythology the roadside [TS]

00:56:02   attraction so on the one hand I agree [TS]

00:56:05   with him that roadside attractions are [TS]

00:56:06   great house on the rock sounds amazing [TS]

00:56:08   I've paid money to go to a mystery spot [TS]

00:56:10   it was amazing things rolled uphill but [TS]

00:56:13   here's the thing about this at one point [TS]

00:56:15   they Wednesday is explaining how people [TS]

00:56:19   biltz random things in random places [TS]

00:56:23   because they were places of power and [TS]

00:56:25   shadow says so Disneyland must be really [TS]

00:56:28   powerful right and Wednesday has to say [TS]

00:56:30   maybe a little but not Disney World know [TS]

00:56:33   basically the imprint we get is the big [TS]

00:56:35   successful tourist attractions art [TS]

00:56:38   magical only the little crappy ones [TS]

00:56:40   uh-huh now this ties into I'm gonna [TS]

00:56:43   quote a short paragraph from the book he [TS]

00:56:46   rolled over in bed and closed his eyes [TS]

00:56:48   it occurred to him that the reason he [TS]

00:56:50   liked Wednesday and mr. Nancy and the [TS]

00:56:51   rest of them better than their [TS]

00:56:52   opposition was pretty straightforward [TS]

00:56:54   they might be dirty and cheap and their [TS]

00:56:56   food might taste like shit but at least [TS]

00:56:57   they didn't speak in cliches and he [TS]

00:56:59   would take a roadside attraction no [TS]

00:57:01   matter how cheap how crooked her house [TS]

00:57:02   said over a shopping mall any day and [TS]

00:57:05   you know what that really bugs me the [TS]

00:57:08   level of classism and looking down on [TS]

00:57:12   people that that reveals both about [TS]

00:57:15   shadow and I think about Neil Gaiman it [TS]

00:57:17   really really bothers me that first of [TS]

00:57:20   all you're saying well I'm better than [TS]

00:57:21   those stupid masses because I go to [TS]

00:57:24   places like house on the rock not [TS]

00:57:25   Disneyland oh my stars I'm gonna go [TS]

00:57:28   there [TS]

00:57:29   her that's not genuine it's also saying [TS]

00:57:32   how much better he is then the idiots [TS]

00:57:34   who built the roadside attractions both [TS]

00:57:37   of those really bother me see I can I [TS]

00:57:40   can go along with the you know going to [TS]

00:57:42   the roadside attractions because I mean [TS]

00:57:45   you know Disney World and things like [TS]

00:57:47   that are very coldly calculated whereas [TS]

00:57:51   one crazy person believed in this as an [TS]

00:57:55   idea and built this thing and so it's [TS]

00:57:57   like okay it's about faith it's about [TS]

00:57:59   belief it's about you know being a [TS]

00:58:02   little crazy one crazy person built [TS]

00:58:04   Disneyland David yeah with about my work [TS]

00:58:07   like Julian's has some stuff and Disney [TS]

00:58:09   World have no magic because yes the [TS]

00:58:11   corporate brand extension but I think [TS]

00:58:13   you're you're on the right track to with [TS]

00:58:15   the looking down on the people who built [TS]

00:58:18   the roadside attractions I don't know I [TS]

00:58:20   I read it as the chart as Neil Gaiman [TS]

00:58:22   being charmed by Americana that's how I [TS]

00:58:24   read it is then well yeah yeah he's [TS]

00:58:26   charmed by these charming poor people [TS]

00:58:28   and they're charming lack of artifice [TS]

00:58:31   he's really looking looking down on them [TS]

00:58:34   Monty there's a thing that's described [TS]

00:58:36   which is that two generations after [TS]

00:58:39   people how to do something out of [TS]

00:58:40   poverty it becomes an item at [TS]

00:58:41   restoration hardware like it's the [TS]

00:58:44   artisanal pasta that was actually made [TS]

00:58:46   because it was the only thing people [TS]

00:58:48   could afford to make two generations ago [TS]

00:58:50   and it's exactly that's like look at [TS]

00:58:51   this wonderful magic these yokels [TS]

00:58:53   accidentally made that's really terrific [TS]

00:58:55   because we can appreciate it I don't [TS]

00:58:57   know I I again I I think that it is not [TS]

00:59:00   looking down on them but appreciating [TS]

00:59:02   them as more authentic than the things [TS]

00:59:04   that are constructed to be amusements [TS]

00:59:06   and you know some of this may be some of [TS]

00:59:09   this may be also him trying to create a [TS]

00:59:10   dichotomy between the old and the new [TS]

00:59:12   where the new is corporate pleasure [TS]

00:59:14   centers that are built for everybody as [TS]

00:59:18   profit you know as profit generators and [TS]

00:59:20   the the old are people who just believed [TS]

00:59:24   in a thing or people found it fun and it [TS]

00:59:26   became popular kind of organically so I [TS]

00:59:29   didn't I didn't read it quite as bad as [TS]

00:59:31   that but I house on the rock opened four [TS]

00:59:33   years after disneyland both of them were [TS]

00:59:36   creation of a creative person who wanted [TS]

00:59:39   spend a lot of money creating a tourist [TS]

00:59:42   traction the only difference between [TS]

00:59:43   them is that Walt Disney knew what he [TS]

00:59:46   was doing and was not crazy also he knew [TS]

00:59:49   where to put a trick tourist attraction [TS]

00:59:51   the contempt in the book for for Paul [TS]

00:59:53   Bunyan though ties into this it's a [TS]

00:59:55   different aspect but but John Chapman [TS]

00:59:57   has become a liquor [TS]

00:59:57   has become a liquor [TS]

01:00:00   kind of God but not exactly and it reads [TS]

01:00:03   like I mean I the same reaction after [TS]

01:00:05   reading a Michael Pollan book the one [TS]

01:00:09   about apples and pot and so forth have [TS]

01:00:11   forgotten the name of the book but the [TS]

01:00:13   what I learned that I didn't know that [TS]

01:00:15   Johnny Appleseed basically owned tracts [TS]

01:00:17   of land was a good businessman had [TS]

01:00:19   really strange ideas but he was [TS]

01:00:22   basically selling apples to for people [TS]

01:00:24   to make Applejack out of because that [TS]

01:00:25   was safe you could drink fermented [TS]

01:00:27   alcohol or distilled alcohol and it was [TS]

01:00:30   made very simply anyway I thought people [TS]

01:00:31   are I thought he's playing apples [TS]

01:00:32   because he ate him but you can't eat [TS]

01:00:33   apples planted that way and I'm like oh [TS]

01:00:35   so Neil Gaiman just write a book about [TS]

01:00:36   this when he read American Gods he had [TS]

01:00:38   to stick that in and say I'm John I'm [TS]

01:00:40   the real guy that Paul Bunyan but I do [TS]

01:00:43   get when he says something like nobody [TS]

01:00:46   ever tells stories about Paul Bunyan [TS]

01:00:48   nobody believes in Paul Bunyan you're [TS]

01:00:50   like me it's like Paul Bunyan like and [TS]

01:00:52   knocked out part of the mythology [TS]

01:00:54   because an ad agency came up with him [TS]

01:00:56   and I was like you know I've never [TS]

01:00:57   really liked Paul Bunyan hmm never [TS]

01:00:59   really liked that guy he's got a bunch [TS]

01:01:01   of statues that's true way more than [TS]

01:01:03   Johnny apples and roadside attraction [TS]

01:01:05   there's no us in the blue ox how can you [TS]

01:01:07   not love babe the Blue Ox what's it game [TS]

01:01:10   is being yeah yeah babe no one's [TS]

01:01:12   complaining about babe I think what a [TS]

01:01:14   game in saying is that tall tales aren't [TS]

01:01:16   gods because they're not the same issues [TS]

01:01:20   with that too is like well really but if [TS]

01:01:22   it's like oral tradition of yeah of [TS]

01:01:25   stories that you're telling does it does [TS]

01:01:28   it make a difference he says yes it does [TS]

01:01:29   you must worry they must be worshipped [TS]

01:01:31   or else they don't they do not count [TS]

01:01:32   Paul Bunyan comes out of mythology but [TS]

01:01:34   he's bigger than life there's no Kirk [TS]

01:01:35   he's only characteristics and he was [TS]

01:01:38   spread as kind of an advertising thing [TS]

01:01:40   as an agglomeration of things as opposed [TS]

01:01:42   to a you know something that arose out [TS]

01:01:44   of culture more I think I think game is [TS]

01:01:47   making the distinction between [TS]

01:01:48   vernacular and manufactured which may be [TS]

01:01:51   an artificial distinction it really is [TS]

01:01:52   based on us in the rock he's walking a [TS]

01:01:56   really narrow line here because he wants [TS]

01:01:58   the story he wants to tell the story he [TS]

01:01:59   wants to tell and it does start to break [TS]

01:02:01   apart if you say well what about Paul [TS]

01:02:03   Bunyan or you know where what about [TS]

01:02:05   Buddha what about you know what about [TS]

01:02:07   what about these other religions what [TS]

01:02:10   about Muhammad what about like there are [TS]

01:02:12   so many and [TS]

01:02:13   he's like knitted uh we're not going to [TS]

01:02:14   talk about any other religions it's just [TS]

01:02:16   the ones that I want I want the I want [TS]

01:02:18   though kind of outmoded religions over [TS]

01:02:20   here and I want that's like well what [TS]

01:02:21   about media wouldn't like the people who [TS]

01:02:24   said that they liked they were Jedi they [TS]

01:02:26   believed in the Jedi when they filled [TS]

01:02:28   out the census form maybe obi-wan Kenobi [TS]

01:02:31   should be around like nope nope we're [TS]

01:02:33   cooking shoes nope nope right like I can [TS]

01:02:36   only use public domain so it's tricky [TS]

01:02:37   and while I'm saying I think bringing [TS]

01:02:40   Johnny Appleseed and Paul Bunyan into [TS]

01:02:42   the story at all was kind of a mistake [TS]

01:02:44   like you don't need to go down that [TS]

01:02:46   alley and I kind of felt like that that [TS]

01:02:49   whole the idea of only using public [TS]

01:02:51   domain gods as kind of why he cooed [TS]

01:02:54   things like Disneyland and Disney World [TS]

01:02:56   otherwise you've got Mickey and Minnie [TS]

01:02:57   showing up and bet in this battle and [TS]

01:02:59   like one copyright issues right into [TS]

01:03:02   nobody wants to see the evil side of [TS]

01:03:05   mickey mouse ray speakers I do yeah I [TS]

01:03:09   grew up near disney world i know the [TS]

01:03:11   evil side of making me been explaining [TS]

01:03:14   that to children every saturday and i [TS]

01:03:16   doubt beaten up locals all right we [TS]

01:03:19   should we should wrap this up i think [TS]

01:03:21   yes it is a little bit long but i really [TS]

01:03:24   enjoyed rereading it and i like it and i [TS]

01:03:26   recommend that people read american gods [TS]

01:03:27   before you go out and watch that TV show [TS]

01:03:29   read the book it is beautifully written [TS]

01:03:31   and has a lot of fun concepts in it I [TS]

01:03:33   feel like I complained a lot i really [TS]

01:03:35   like american gods yeah yeah and this [TS]

01:03:38   time around I actually listened to like [TS]

01:03:40   the full cast audiobook as opposed to [TS]

01:03:43   reading it because i know i wasn't going [TS]

01:03:44   to have time to read both of these books [TS]

01:03:46   and so I got it from audible and it was [TS]

01:03:48   actually a really enjoyable like [TS]

01:03:50   performance and work of art ovens in an [TS]

01:03:52   of itself in that format so if you don't [TS]

01:03:55   want to like sit down and read it that [TS]

01:03:57   audio book is amazing it's great oh yeah [TS]

01:03:59   there there are a few books where I find [TS]

01:04:02   the audio book as enjoyable as the book [TS]

01:04:06   and if there's a movie sometimes the [TS]

01:04:07   movie this is one of those i recommend [TS]

01:04:10   american gods also I've really enjoyed [TS]

01:04:11   rereading it I think it's very clever [TS]

01:04:13   anansi boys I enjoyed reading but I [TS]

01:04:15   don't remember i'm looking at the plot [TS]

01:04:17   now on my screen and I hardly remember [TS]

01:04:19   it it keeps it's the it's the nameless [TS]

01:04:22   plot that we don't know but I don't [TS]

01:04:25   think it's a good read but I don't think [TS]

01:04:27   I mean it has nowhere near the impactor [TS]

01:04:29   or like scope of American guts yeah yeah [TS]

01:04:33   I do really love the that like the the [TS]

01:04:36   ghosts in anansi boys I think that like [TS]

01:04:39   that whole that whole subplot was great [TS]

01:04:44   I loved it a lot I mean I love that is [TS]

01:04:46   able to tell a totally different story [TS]

01:04:48   using a similar concept or similar set [TS]

01:04:52   of characters but yeah it doesn't it [TS]

01:04:56   doesn't stick I don't think ever said [TS]

01:04:58   this explicitly but the reason a Nancy [TS]

01:05:00   boys isn't really a sequel to american [TS]

01:05:03   gods it's not the whole cosmology is [TS]

01:05:06   different it is you boys yeah the [TS]

01:05:08   premise of it is the gods are the [TS]

01:05:11   animals people told stories about in [TS]

01:05:13   prehistory there's still tiger they're [TS]

01:05:16   still spiders are still bird woman and [TS]

01:05:19   there's this family like an anansie dies [TS]

01:05:22   and bequeaths his powers to his children [TS]

01:05:25   which is not how it works in american [TS]

01:05:27   gods either and if you're one of the [TS]

01:05:29   personifications of these things you can [TS]

01:05:31   go to other countries it's fine it's [TS]

01:05:33   fine right so so there isn't the US [TS]

01:05:35   version of a Nancy it's it's it's wholly [TS]

01:05:37   within a Nancy's mythology as opposed to [TS]

01:05:40   share it among older yeah that's that's [TS]

01:05:42   about right the epilogue is kind of [TS]

01:05:43   thing where he meets the Odin in Iceland [TS]

01:05:45   it's just this very sweet little weird [TS]

01:05:47   thing and that God being so relatively [TS]

01:05:50   benign and almost childlike and just [TS]

01:05:53   kind of being like a gaudy God like not [TS]

01:05:54   some big trick store whatever he's this [TS]

01:05:56   kind of like he's living large right [TS]

01:05:58   yeah he's a solid old God with lots of [TS]

01:06:00   belief behind them and it's very sweet [TS]

01:06:01   very quickly before we go I'd like to go [TS]

01:06:04   around into a very quick round of [TS]

01:06:05   something you've read recently we call [TS]

01:06:07   this what are we reading something [TS]

01:06:08   you've read recently that you've enjoyed [TS]

01:06:11   that we could also recommend people ah [TS]

01:06:13   David do you want to give us something [TS]

01:06:16   that you've read recently yeah I've got [TS]

01:06:18   two books right now I just read the [TS]

01:06:23   story of your life by ted chang oh yes i [TS]

01:06:27   had put off for a long time and i'm [TS]

01:06:31   currently reading the Black Widow by [TS]

01:06:33   daniel silva which is a spy novel read [TS]

01:06:37   about that story in incomparable episode [TS]

01:06:40   where we talked about it including me [TS]

01:06:42   and Glen we're on that episode oh that [TS]

01:06:45   one Glen what are you reading well I've [TS]

01:06:47   got books I'm not reading in big stacks [TS]

01:06:49   but tell us about those what are you not [TS]

01:06:53   reading that would be always for talking [TS]

01:06:55   stacks I I was recently reading a [TS]

01:06:58   beautifully typeset book from 9027 but [TS]

01:07:00   that's neither here nor there I've got [TS]

01:07:01   that one's ashes the latest of the [TS]

01:07:03   expanse books which I've been unable to [TS]

01:07:05   read I don't want to do any spoiling so [TS]

01:07:06   but like I picked it up and I was like I [TS]

01:07:08   cannot read this in the current world [TS]

01:07:10   climate I realized something at that [TS]

01:07:12   moment which was most fantasy and [TS]

01:07:14   science fiction books are about the [TS]

01:07:16   world being destroyed or earth being [TS]

01:07:18   destroyed or earth having had been [TS]

01:07:19   destroyed or earth in the process of [TS]

01:07:21   about to collapse so I go and like under [TS]

01:07:23   eat something fun I'll read hitchhiker's [TS]

01:07:25   guide to the galaxy dough pitch over [TS]

01:07:28   chapter yeah I do just for escape as for [TS]

01:07:33   escapism and for an episode of a foot we [TS]

01:07:35   read some of the Franny Fisher mystery [TS]

01:07:38   novels by Carrie Greenwood we read a few [TS]

01:07:39   for an episode a few weeks ago and I [TS]

01:07:42   wound up really enjoying the book so [TS]

01:07:44   much I've read the whole series to date [TS]

01:07:46   and they're they're very they're well [TS]

01:07:48   constructed I love the characters in [TS]

01:07:50   them it's richly fleshed out they [TS]

01:07:52   started I didn't realize until reading [TS]

01:07:54   recently that carry Greenwood was sort [TS]

01:07:56   of writing some doing some research [TS]

01:07:57   about Melbourne which by the way [TS]

01:07:59   melbourne was almost called Batman [TS]

01:08:01   australia i have to spread this fact [TS]

01:08:03   everywhere the citizen was called Batman [TS]

01:08:04   I love this but she was doing some [TS]

01:08:06   historical research wounded through a [TS]

01:08:08   series of things pitching a novel and [TS]

01:08:10   then writing then turning to the series [TS]

01:08:12   that's into TV shows as well so I read [TS]

01:08:14   the whole the whole run I think 14 or 15 [TS]

01:08:16   books and they're basically very [TS]

01:08:18   delightful good romps if you like yes a [TS]

01:08:21   more than Nero Wolfe kind of genre it's [TS]

01:08:23   actually very like that in some ways [TS]

01:08:25   more than st. Agatha Christie and there [TS]

01:08:27   you go fun together they're charming [TS]

01:08:30   right Monty what are you reading uh well [TS]

01:08:33   I'm a big fan of El frank Baum's Oz [TS]

01:08:35   books but I never read the books that [TS]

01:08:38   were written after that Oh My yes the [TS]

01:08:41   Ruth Plumlee Thompson I am working my [TS]

01:08:43   way through the Ruth Plumlee Thompson [TS]

01:08:45   books when I get to the end of those I [TS]

01:08:48   John our Neil apparently wrote one on [TS]

01:08:51   the theory that he's been drawing them [TS]

01:08:53   forever he might as well tell the story [TS]

01:08:55   himself why not so far they're not great [TS]

01:08:57   I've gotten through the Royal book of Oz [TS]

01:08:59   and kabum PO in Oz but I'm told that [TS]

01:09:02   after a few she really gets into a [TS]

01:09:04   groove and they will feel very Ozzie's [TS]

01:09:06   so I'm very much looking forward to that [TS]

01:09:08   also I realize how this will sound given [TS]

01:09:11   an earlier rant I'd make this episode I [TS]

01:09:14   am reading a book entitled Walt Disney [TS]

01:09:17   an American original by Bob Thomas it is [TS]

01:09:20   a biography of Walt Disney all right [TS]

01:09:22   aleem what are you reading um so I'm [TS]

01:09:24   actually I'm kind of a rereading jag [TS]

01:09:26   because I'm just having a hard time [TS]

01:09:28   getting into new books right now so I am [TS]

01:09:31   currently rereading the expanse series [TS]

01:09:33   I'm on cibola burn right now um and I'm [TS]

01:09:38   listening to the fifth season again [TS]

01:09:42   Thank You audible.com for not sponsoring [TS]

01:09:44   this episode but I'm going to talk about [TS]

01:09:45   you anyway and yet in preparation for [TS]

01:09:49   upcoming maybe book club shows and I [TS]

01:09:53   need to get get a boogie on nebula best [TS]

01:09:56   novel nominees soon but they're all [TS]

01:09:58   first in a series and I'm like I'm [TS]

01:10:00   already invested in so many online [TS]

01:10:02   series I'm having a hard time convincing [TS]

01:10:05   myself to get started I need to buckle [TS]

01:10:08   down and do that though well speaking of [TS]

01:10:09   sponsors I'm not going to tell you one [TS]

01:10:12   of the books that I've read most [TS]

01:10:13   recently is one of our sponsors in this [TS]

01:10:15   episode so you will have already heard [TS]

01:10:18   that ad by now thanks to John Birmingham [TS]

01:10:20   I enjoyed Becky chambers a closing [TS]

01:10:23   comment orbit which is this sort of it's [TS]

01:10:26   sort of a sequel to the long way to a [TS]

01:10:28   small angry planet Smalling we plan it's [TS]

01:10:32   a weird book it feels like a series you [TS]

01:10:34   know of episodes of a TV show closing [TS]

01:10:37   comment orbit much more of a novel [TS]

01:10:38   doesn't really follow many of the [TS]

01:10:41   characters it's sort of one character [TS]

01:10:42   kind of from the first book but I [TS]

01:10:46   thought it was really good like really [TS]

01:10:48   good and legitimately a novel and [TS]

01:10:50   emotional and smart and has lots of [TS]

01:10:54   questions about like finding your way in [TS]

01:10:55   the world and it's kind of the coming of [TS]

01:10:58   age story of an artificial intelligence [TS]

01:10:59   kind of um really liked it thought that [TS]

01:11:02   was really good like a way i was with [TS]

01:11:05   wave so much [TS]

01:11:07   past my expectations and I like the [TS]

01:11:08   first book but for a second novel like [TS]

01:11:11   she killed it she did it she did a great [TS]

01:11:13   job i recently read for an upcoming [TS]

01:11:15   episode of the incomparable i read [TS]

01:11:17   broken kingdoms which is the second book [TS]

01:11:19   of NK jemisin inheritance trilogy and i [TS]

01:11:22   i i read one hundred thousand kingdoms [TS]

01:11:24   and then I just never continue with that [TS]

01:11:26   series and despite the fact Glenn told [TS]

01:11:28   me that they were all really good he was [TS]

01:11:29   right oh they're so it's really good [TS]

01:11:31   yeah broken kingdoms really great book [TS]

01:11:33   and then to wrap it up I've got a couple [TS]

01:11:36   of books so my longtime friend Tom [TS]

01:11:38   degree know who was a incomparable [TS]

01:11:40   listener big sci-fi fan passed away this [TS]

01:11:43   week and I decided that to honor Tom who [TS]

01:11:47   never got to be on the show although we [TS]

01:11:48   talked about it a couple of times he did [TS]

01:11:50   see us do our presentation at SAS Quan [TS]

01:11:53   when we did the radio theatre at SAS [TS]

01:11:55   quani and his wife Dori came to the king [TS]

01:11:57   of the show so i looked up Tom's [TS]

01:11:59   goodreads because he's a good freed [TS]

01:12:00   friend and two books that he he rated [TS]

01:12:03   five stars that are fairly recent sci-fi [TS]

01:12:06   fantasy novels and you might want to [TS]

01:12:07   check out up against it by MJ lock and [TS]

01:12:09   redemption arc by alastair reynolds both [TS]

01:12:13   five stars from Tom Negreanu and that [TS]

01:12:15   guy knew what he was talking about so [TS]

01:12:17   those are probably both very good books [TS]

01:12:19   you should check them out and we're [TS]

01:12:20   gonna miss you Tom so that's it for this [TS]

01:12:23   edition of the incomparable I want to [TS]

01:12:24   thank my guests for helping me go back [TS]

01:12:29   and reread books that I've forgotten [TS]

01:12:31   about because that happened and I [TS]

01:12:34   enjoyed them I enjoyed rereading [TS]

01:12:36   american gods again aleem sims thank you [TS]

01:12:37   so much for being here yeah always loved [TS]

01:12:39   being on the show Monty Ashley thank you [TS]

01:12:42   it see it slow ki Young's really low-key [TS]

01:12:45   if you say it I mean I do like that [TS]

01:12:48   shadow says it out loud and he's like oh [TS]

01:12:50   I like how slow he is on that one yeah I [TS]

01:12:54   know your pal is Odin and you said Loki [TS]

01:12:57   several times not the brightest at all [TS]

01:13:00   times David Laura thank you thank you [TS]

01:13:01   thank Allah Fleischman thank you very [TS]

01:13:03   much I'm the nameless Glenn and I should [TS]

01:13:06   be thanks rub me on and I see everybody [TS]

01:13:09   out there for listing we will be back [TS]

01:13:10   next week with another edition of the [TS]

01:13:12   uncomfortable until then goodbye [TS]

01:13:18   you [TS]

01:13:22   you [TS]

01:13:24   you [TS]

01:13:28   nobody leaves home alive right but it's [TS]

01:13:31   much Wait Wait nobody leaves home alive [TS]

01:13:33   Glenn that is terrible very short story [TS]

01:13:37   remain indoors remain indoors nobody [TS]

01:13:40   ever gets to come home nobody leaves [TS]

01:13:41   leave nobody comes home and unscathed [TS]

01:13:43   I'm sorry okay all right I've just [TS]

01:13:45   revealed my plan I'm sorry [TS]