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The Incomparable

315: Show Some Respect for the Chimp

 

00:00:00   come see the Cassidy and comfortable and [TS]

00:00:02   many other podcasts at the now hear this [TS]

00:00:04   festival in anaheim california October [TS]

00:00:07   28 through 30th go to now hear this vest [TS]

00:00:11   dot-com for more information [TS]

00:00:15   the incomparable number 315 artists 2060 [TS]

00:00:23   welcome back everybody to the [TS]

00:00:25   incomparable it's another edition of [TS]

00:00:27   what we like to call old movie club our [TS]

00:00:30   movie grab and in this edition we are [TS]

00:00:33   going to be talking about sunset [TS]

00:00:36   boulevard from 1950 and stat like 17 [TS]

00:00:39   from 1953 now Philip Michael's always [TS]

00:00:42   picks the movies and I wanted to ask [TS]

00:00:44   Phil right up front here it is the theme [TS]

00:00:47   so these movies directed by billy wilder [TS]

00:00:49   he had a hand in the script they start [TS]

00:00:51   William Holden and is that what was the [TS]

00:00:54   theme you're looking for here or is it [TS]

00:00:55   movies that strangely have famous [TS]

00:00:58   directors in bit parts is that also was [TS]

00:01:00   thinking that movies [TS]

00:01:02   yes Bavarian Bavarian adjacent film [TS]

00:01:04   directors again supporting roles this [TS]

00:01:07   was the theme it's a very important part [TS]

00:01:09   of cinema later tonight we'll little [TS]

00:01:11   later tonight we'll be watching grand [TS]

00:01:13   illusion and talking about that [TS]

00:01:15   alright it was just it was good to see [TS]

00:01:16   erich von stroheim have auto premature [TS]

00:01:20   as he was meant to be seen and cecil b [TS]

00:01:22   demand accessibility mill absolute last [TS]

00:01:24   Turkey and also a director [TS]

00:01:26   yes it's true alright let me introduce [TS]

00:01:27   the the panel you already heard from [TS]

00:01:29   Philip Michaels and you heard from [TS]

00:01:31   buster keaton and erich von stroke and [TS]

00:01:33   referring to is here to everything that [TS]

00:01:35   buster keaton had to say [TS]

00:01:36   also joining us Monty Ashley hello hi [TS]

00:01:39   there [TS]

00:01:40   Steve Lutz is here hello hooray it's me [TS]

00:01:44   yay india echo is also here hi Andy [TS]

00:01:47   adding I damn more'n sign in signing on [TS]

00:01:53   here I excellent Erica enzyme hi present [TS]

00:01:58   and shannon sudderth hello hello I am [TS]

00:02:02   big [TS]

00:02:03   it's the podcast that got small you're [TS]

00:02:06   you're telling me [TS]

00:02:07   yeah alright uh Phil where should we [TS]

00:02:11   start to restore chronologically with [TS]

00:02:12   some simple over and start [TS]

00:02:13   chronologically with sunset boulevard [TS]

00:02:15   because i think it frames the William [TS]

00:02:19   Holden we run into a few years later in [TS]

00:02:21   a in a little bit better light but I saw [TS]

00:02:23   sunset boulevard the most recently and [TS]

00:02:25   it's committed to memory now so um yeah [TS]

00:02:28   so the the movie opens up and William [TS]

00:02:31   holding his dead whoops not affected [TS]

00:02:34   yeah he's able to boil errs through a [TS]

00:02:38   voiceover which I'm sure that we will [TS]

00:02:41   discuss the effectiveness of it later on [TS]

00:02:44   yeah so William Paul it will be million [TS]

00:02:47   polden William Holden is floating [TS]

00:02:50   facedown William Lordan yes that's it [TS]

00:02:53   folks floating facedown in the pool shot [TS]

00:02:57   shot to pieces and telling us hey you [TS]

00:03:00   want to know how I got here will let me [TS]

00:03:02   tell ya [TS]

00:03:03   let's go to a flashback where he is a [TS]

00:03:05   screen writer in Hollywood who is not [TS]

00:03:08   doing up terribly well for himself [TS]

00:03:10   people are coming to repossess his car [TS]

00:03:12   he can't sell a movie to save his life [TS]

00:03:15   not to up not to faint character actor [TS]

00:03:18   Frank 4i i always get Fred Clark I [TS]

00:03:22   always forget him confused with that [TS]

00:03:24   yes guy whose name is Frank count [TS]

00:03:27   something else other right Frank Nelson [TS]

00:03:28   thank you Frank Nelson and fred clark [TS]

00:03:30   they're very similar to mustachioed [TS]

00:03:33   balding men who were famous in their day [TS]

00:03:36   anyhow fred clark doesn't want to buy [TS]

00:03:39   any of William Holden movies uh he's [TS]

00:03:42   driving back the car repo men see that [TS]

00:03:44   he's his car wasn't loaned out like he [TS]

00:03:47   said it was and they they we have a [TS]

00:03:49   chase sequence which is unusual for [TS]

00:03:51   Billy Wilder movie but there you go and [TS]

00:03:54   William Holden ends up taking shelter in [TS]

00:03:57   a mansion on the titular Sunset [TS]

00:04:00   Boulevard which is owned by fading [TS]

00:04:03   silent movie star [TS]

00:04:04   Norma Desmond as played by fading silent [TS]

00:04:07   movie star Gloria Swanson and it is at [TS]

00:04:12   this point that we learned that Gloria [TS]

00:04:13   Swanson is or at least as Norma Desmond [TS]

00:04:17   is well checked out from reality still [TS]

00:04:21   thinks that the next big part is going [TS]

00:04:23   to be just a just a phone call away and [TS]

00:04:25   in fact she is in writing a script [TS]

00:04:28   herself that will launch her her great [TS]

00:04:31   comeback in which he finds out that [TS]

00:04:32   William Holden is himself a scriptwriter [TS]

00:04:34   she insisted he reads it which is when [TS]

00:04:36   William Holden who we should mention is [TS]

00:04:38   is is a pretty scuzzy little fella hits [TS]

00:04:42   upon the theory that well all dr. her [TS]

00:04:46   script and I can [TS]

00:04:47   I doubt here from my creditors and maybe [TS]

00:04:49   make some some cash to pay them off arm [TS]

00:04:52   and thus begins the the plot where she [TS]

00:04:56   gets here [TS]

00:04:57   clutching her clutches deeper and deeper [TS]

00:04:59   into him he becomes are the kept man uh [TS]

00:05:03   and [TS]

00:05:05   she falls for him and he wants nothing [TS]

00:05:09   to do with her because she's 50 gross [TS]

00:05:12   haha he was on like in real life he was [TS]

00:05:17   12 years younger than her when they made [TS]

00:05:19   this movie so it was like it's like me [TS]

00:05:21   about it guys it's in his defense she's [TS]

00:05:25   not well [TS]

00:05:26   no no they just look old she just looks [TS]

00:05:29   crazy great yeah they they make some [TS]

00:05:32   deliberate choices on how to present [TS]

00:05:33   Gloria Swanson this movie which I'm sure [TS]

00:05:36   we'll talk about later as well on a we [TS]

00:05:41   should mention that uh William Holden [TS]

00:05:44   keeps having run-ins with a script [TS]

00:05:46   reader at the studio of Betty shapers [TS]

00:05:49   the character's name the actresses nancy [TS]

00:05:51   olson and no she's dating a surprisingly [TS]

00:05:55   Pepe Jack Webb the peppiest Jack weapon [TS]

00:05:58   you ever see Ronnie too i did not have [TS]

00:06:01   to double take when i looked it up [TS]

00:06:03   yeah um the they begin working on a [TS]

00:06:07   script together and they began quite [TS]

00:06:10   clearly falling for each other this [TS]

00:06:12   which is complicated because again [TS]

00:06:14   William Holden is a kept man [TS]

00:06:16   Gloria Swanson's a jealous woman [TS]

00:06:19   William Holden finally has enough and [TS]

00:06:22   decides to leave and we can get into the [TS]

00:06:23   details of that later i'm just trying to [TS]

00:06:25   some of the plot quickly [TS]

00:06:27   ah and that's when Gloria Swanson plugs [TS]

00:06:30   and full of holes and has her final [TS]

00:06:31   psychic break with reality leading to [TS]

00:06:35   the famous scene where the police come [TS]

00:06:37   together come to get her and the a4 [TS]

00:06:40   mentioned erich von stroheim who was who [TS]

00:06:42   is both her butler and the first husband [TS]

00:06:45   was happens and a and a former director [TS]

00:06:49   of connives the way to get her out of [TS]

00:06:52   the house is to pretend that she is [TS]

00:06:53   again in a movie and she descends down [TS]

00:06:56   the stairs well [TS]

00:06:57   erich von stroheim is yelling out [TS]

00:06:58   direction and it's very haunting and [TS]

00:07:01   horrifying and that's when she delivers [TS]

00:07:03   the line [TS]

00:07:04   that besides get the middle is ready for [TS]

00:07:07   my close-up mr. DeMille I'm ready for my [TS]

00:07:09   close-up that is probably the second [TS]

00:07:11   most famous line in the movie besides [TS]

00:07:12   I'm still bigots the pictures that got [TS]

00:07:14   small and and movie and but eventually i [TS]

00:07:18   guess they fish William Holden out of [TS]

00:07:21   the pool center later they sure let him [TS]

00:07:23   float for a long time no see he gets [TS]

00:07:25   he's gonna he's gonna pickle in the air [TS]

00:07:27   right Lu so I'm Matt that's the movie in [TS]

00:07:30   a nutshell and down didn't take us to [TS]

00:07:32   onto something up moving on to start [TS]

00:07:35   like seven no no no [TS]

00:07:36   wow you really blasted through that [TS]

00:07:37   field AI wanted to wanted to get the [TS]

00:07:39   plot out of the way so that we don't [TS]

00:07:41   have time to interrupt you [TS]

00:07:42   yeah well I that was my goal to your [TS]

00:07:45   bottom that would ya [TS]

00:07:47   so let's go back to the beginning yeah [TS]

00:07:49   okay I yield the floor [TS]

00:07:53   well my first know was that I thought it [TS]

00:07:54   was really cool that we could have [TS]

00:07:55   started zoomed in on the street sign [TS]

00:07:57   that says Sunset Boulevard but we start [TS]

00:08:00   facedown in the gutter Enzo yeah looking [TS]

00:08:02   at on Sunset Boulevard painted on the [TS]

00:08:04   curb [TS]

00:08:04   yep which kind of tells you where the [TS]

00:08:06   story's gonna go [TS]

00:08:08   I like how it screams film two are at [TS]

00:08:10   you exactly like double identity where [TS]

00:08:13   you have all of the hallmarks of a [TS]

00:08:15   voiceover you have the derringer saying [TS]

00:08:17   so I'm already dead when this movie [TS]

00:08:19   stars don't expect a happy ending now [TS]

00:08:23   see that threw me for a loop because he [TS]

00:08:24   looks different enough floating in the [TS]

00:08:26   pool and and film from underneath that I [TS]

00:08:29   wasn't certain that it was him in fact [TS]

00:08:31   for a long time I didn't think it was [TS]

00:08:33   him and I kept waiting for than this [TS]

00:08:34   this new character to arrive that's [TS]

00:08:36   gonna get shot and end up floating in [TS]

00:08:37   the pool and in fact he starts off as [TS]

00:08:40   the narrator calling himself a poor dope [TS]

00:08:42   at which point i wrote down you've got a [TS]

00:08:44   pretty rough when even the narrator [TS]

00:08:46   cause you poured oh but it turns out it [TS]

00:08:48   was him so that makes a lot more sets [TS]

00:08:50   but yeah that I I was kind of thrown off [TS]

00:08:53   by that I think that was a byproduct of [TS]

00:08:55   how they had to shoot the the [TS]

00:08:58   underwaters in the because i had to use [TS]

00:09:01   mirrors because they couldn't get a [TS]

00:09:02   clear shot with the camera underwater [TS]

00:09:05   and protected in any way and also the [TS]

00:09:07   police you the police detectives [TS]

00:09:11   wouldn't have shown up clearly in the [TS]

00:09:12   shot either so [TS]

00:09:13   I think that's why William Holden kind [TS]

00:09:16   of looks odd and not himself when he's [TS]

00:09:18   on he's floating upside bill just hold [TS]

00:09:20   your breath for another 5 10 minutes [TS]

00:09:22   we've got the shadow set up the can we [TS]

00:09:25   start with just the question of Weiss i [TS]

00:09:28   have a dead guy narrate the story as [TS]

00:09:31   opposed to simply start off with ok he's [TS]

00:09:33   on the run from creditors and we don't [TS]

00:09:35   know how this story is going to end up [TS]

00:09:37   why was the why do you think that choice [TS]

00:09:38   was made well like I said it's a kind of [TS]

00:09:41   a film our staple really its to tell the [TS]

00:09:44   audience this does not have a happy [TS]

00:09:46   ending [TS]

00:09:46   so that the whole time you're watching [TS]

00:09:48   it even the brief moments of completely [TS]

00:09:52   under dr visit my I think the moment he [TS]

00:09:54   decides that moving in with Gloria [TS]

00:09:57   Swanson instead of running in any [TS]

00:09:59   direction other than that way including [TS]

00:10:00   prism is not as a way to go [TS]

00:10:03   I think that's when we know that these [TS]

00:10:04   things are not going to work on this [TS]

00:10:06   will not end well i like i like the [TS]

00:10:08   whole movie in retrospect though I [TS]

00:10:10   wonder if that was just kind of flashy [TS]

00:10:12   if you if they started it straight [TS]

00:10:14   I don't know if we would've been better [TS]

00:10:15   better known for any worse I don't know [TS]

00:10:17   as a movie viewer I i'm always sort of [TS]

00:10:20   counting on the happy ending so I feel [TS]

00:10:22   like my experience watching this film [TS]

00:10:23   would have been very very different if [TS]

00:10:26   they had just gone instead I would have [TS]

00:10:27   expected the happy ending with him [TS]

00:10:29   because you know they really built up [TS]

00:10:30   his relationship with the little script [TS]

00:10:33   writer lady and you know be it looks [TS]

00:10:37   like looks like things could work out [TS]

00:10:38   for him and the only reason that the [TS]

00:10:40   only reason that I'm not you know really [TS]

00:10:42   rooting for that is because I know and I [TS]

00:10:44   appreciate a pet now it adds to the [TS]

00:10:46   emotional punch towards the end it's not [TS]

00:10:49   that he himself has become a better [TS]

00:10:51   person but he's at least sort of trying [TS]

00:10:54   to do the right thing he guides Betty [TS]

00:10:57   back to her fiance and breaks it off [TS]

00:10:59   with her pretty cruelly but he's like [TS]

00:11:01   look you know this is the only way she's [TS]

00:11:03   gonna believe me and he sets her back [TS]

00:11:05   out of his life and then he's working to [TS]

00:11:08   take himself out of Norma's life hoping [TS]

00:11:10   that you know she'll get over him and [TS]

00:11:12   then she'll go back to her happy fantasy [TS]

00:11:14   and things will be okay and he's gonna [TS]

00:11:16   go back home to Ohio so in his own way [TS]

00:11:18   he's trying to do the right thing and [TS]

00:11:21   yet you know what's coming in that kind [TS]

00:11:24   of makes it a little more wrenching I [TS]

00:11:26   found out like [TS]

00:11:27   good move on his part and and I i took [TS]

00:11:30   from that William Holden this kind of [TS]

00:11:32   full of self-loathing and also load is [TS]

00:11:34   everything about Hollywood at this point [TS]

00:11:36   because i think it's an interesting [TS]

00:11:36   moment where you sort of it I expected [TS]

00:11:39   anyway that he's either going to push [TS]

00:11:42   Betty away and stay or he's going to [TS]

00:11:45   leave with Betty and instead he pushes [TS]

00:11:49   her away and makes to leave like you [TS]

00:11:52   know you need to go do something else [TS]

00:11:53   that's not with me and I need to get out [TS]

00:11:56   of here and I I thought that was a that [TS]

00:11:58   was a moment of surprise for me even [TS]

00:11:59   though knowing that he's gonna get shot [TS]

00:12:01   that he's so you know he's not gonna [TS]

00:12:04   even try to make it work with Betty he [TS]

00:12:05   knows that it's no good she needs to go [TS]

00:12:07   to her boyfriend and go back to him and [TS]

00:12:09   and and just get him get William Holden [TS]

00:12:13   out of her life I always said I was [TS]

00:12:14   surprised by that he does he kind of [TS]

00:12:16   knocks down the whole house of cards you [TS]

00:12:18   know kinda on the way out i see you [TS]

00:12:20   suckers [TS]

00:12:21   yeah he's the one who pushes her into [TS]

00:12:22   madness finally by well short trips yeah [TS]

00:12:25   it wasn't it was a gentle push but look [TS]

00:12:28   at the butler whose name i cannot [TS]

00:12:30   remember what matters right max that's [TS]

00:12:32   it after starting our letters by writing [TS]

00:12:35   the better make fan letters and making [TS]

00:12:37   her still think that she's wanted and [TS]

00:12:39   then yeah it's really William Holden who [TS]

00:12:42   cares down that sort of the only thing [TS]

00:12:45   desired madhouses our old car yeah it is [TS]

00:12:49   currently strange to me that the [TS]

00:12:51   narration never makes a note of the fact [TS]

00:12:53   when it gets to the point where he's [TS]

00:12:54   been shot that oh yeah that's me I'm [TS]

00:12:57   floating in the pool i'm dead and it [TS]

00:12:58   just kind of goes on and and he's [TS]

00:13:00   talking about stuff that he can't [TS]

00:13:02   possibly have known about places [TS]

00:13:04   hovering over as a ghost that's always [TS]

00:13:07   bothered me i feel like the narration [TS]

00:13:09   should stop once your character is dead [TS]

00:13:11   accepting we start with the character [TS]

00:13:13   that one anymore he could be dying else [TS]

00:13:16   then this is all covered in Sunset [TS]

00:13:19   Boulevard to okay i love i love that [TS]

00:13:22   about the narration that first thing you [TS]

00:13:23   hear is hey I'm dead that's me floating [TS]

00:13:26   there let me tell you how I got to this [TS]

00:13:28   point is you're like but you're already [TS]

00:13:29   did it's like yeah but I'm the narrator [TS]

00:13:30   too so I got another job to wait before [TS]

00:13:34   i descend into hell I got a few more [TS]

00:13:35   things to tell you about a mutual friend [TS]

00:13:37   and I of Jason and minds i used to [TS]

00:13:40   describe the open [TS]

00:13:41   the movie as I can't believe that crazy [TS]

00:13:43   broad shot i don't have the whole movie [TS]

00:13:46   is like his last thoughts like ya light [TS]

00:13:49   flashing before I doesn't hold up [TS]

00:13:51   because you that only the dragon his [TS]

00:13:53   corpse out of the pool and he still [TS]

00:13:54   yammering along in the dryer [TS]

00:13:56   no he's now in the afterlife as a movie [TS]

00:13:58   narrator that's his name rigor mortis is [TS]

00:14:00   that it that's as hell he's gonna not [TS]

00:14:02   participate in the worst possible [TS]

00:14:04   narrative conventions of all the [TS]

00:14:05   voice-over the alcohol left me my face [TS]

00:14:08   puffy as it was I don't know where this [TS]

00:14:10   water's gonna do [TS]

00:14:11   closed casket closed casket I'm gonna [TS]

00:14:14   lay out all my cards out on the table [TS]

00:14:16   I don't like the narration yeah it's not [TS]

00:14:19   really necessary i don't think i [TS]

00:14:20   overdoing I like it but again just [TS]

00:14:22   because it makes it such a film noir [TS]

00:14:24   movie it is into our that yeah i mean i [TS]

00:14:26   agree it's sort of plays up to a lot of [TS]

00:14:28   narration in film noir I think works out [TS]

00:14:31   you need to have someone specific point [TS]

00:14:33   of view you can have an armistice [TS]

00:14:34   Commission point of view in this you [TS]

00:14:36   have to have here is what i'm seeing at [TS]

00:14:37   the time remember that in this into any [TS]

00:14:39   entire mansion has been its itself as a [TS]

00:14:42   fantasy land that's built up so that [TS]

00:14:44   this one woman thinks that everything [TS]

00:14:46   makes sense and everybody who's part of [TS]

00:14:48   that fantasy has been building into it [TS]

00:14:50   for so long and with such conviction [TS]

00:14:53   that they don't believe it but they [TS]

00:14:55   don't question it anymore so you need to [TS]

00:14:56   have a narrator who says oh my god I'm [TS]

00:14:59   the first one to walk into this monkey [TS]

00:15:01   house who's telling everybody you don't [TS]

00:15:03   realize how bad it smells in here even [TS]

00:15:05   love your soul you don't smell exactly [TS]

00:15:07   it's literally a monkey yeah that's what [TS]

00:15:12   that smell is the dead chimps oh yeah [TS]

00:15:14   the character can't really express that [TS]

00:15:16   because if he does then his little ruse [TS]

00:15:18   about you know ghost writing your script [TS]

00:15:20   is ruined so i guess it makes sense that [TS]

00:15:22   has to be done via narrow my God he's [TS]

00:15:24   literally ghostwriting it lady your [TS]

00:15:26   house reeks is not gonna work is there [TS]

00:15:28   also a little bed I detected a little [TS]

00:15:31   bit from the very beginning that he [TS]

00:15:33   knows that the script is not going to go [TS]

00:15:35   anywhere but there's some part from that [TS]

00:15:37   same wait a minute and i know that i'm [TS]

00:15:38   basically a basically gigolo for this [TS]

00:15:41   for this woman but I'm now for the first [TS]

00:15:43   time actually being paid to work on a [TS]

00:15:46   script for a big star who can actually [TS]

00:15:48   get on the lot now that he thinks gonna [TS]

00:15:50   go it's gonna go anywhere but maybe at [TS]

00:15:52   some point he's instead of being the [TS]

00:15:54   person who can [TS]

00:15:54   get anything going anywhere at least [TS]

00:15:56   even himself when he got with somebody [TS]

00:15:59   gets into the orbit of this this this [TS]

00:16:01   crazy house can say well now i'm an [TS]

00:16:03   actual working screenwriter met the [TS]

00:16:04   bottom of the wrong but at least i'm on [TS]

00:16:05   the ladder right now but by that point [TS]

00:16:07   he's already kind of given up on it [TS]

00:16:09   right like he goes in he's like oh yeah [TS]

00:16:11   I've given up on writing i basically I'm [TS]

00:16:12   just a kept man like he starts I agree [TS]

00:16:14   starts out there down that path but like [TS]

00:16:17   you wear his he could have pursued that [TS]

00:16:19   further and try to you know push it he [TS]

00:16:21   eventually sort of gives up and resigns [TS]

00:16:23   himself to the life of being a kept man [TS]

00:16:25   there's a key scene that I really like [TS]

00:16:27   which is like the last little bit of his [TS]

00:16:29   soul getting sold away he tries to exert [TS]

00:16:32   some professionalism and editorial [TS]

00:16:35   authority over her terrible screenplay [TS]

00:16:37   and says this whole scene needs to come [TS]

00:16:39   out we don't need to see you do this and [TS]

00:16:41   she said you don't need to be in every [TS]

00:16:43   scene and she said yes I do [TS]

00:16:46   he's like all right back in I don't know [TS]

00:16:48   I feel like the last straw is really [TS]

00:16:50   when the car which is his ostensible [TS]

00:16:51   reason for being there is dragged away [TS]

00:16:53   registration spite of his efforts iin [TS]

00:16:56   yet i was thinking the the scene at the [TS]

00:16:58   New Year's party where he rushes back [TS]

00:17:01   because she's tried to kill herself you [TS]

00:17:03   know because he's almost out [TS]

00:17:04   he's a lot of bad there's a lot of bad [TS]

00:17:06   happened but he goes back [TS]

00:17:08   yeah I like um i want to mention I I [TS]

00:17:10   like a lot of the Hollywood wraparound [TS]

00:17:12   stuff here that is not like the primary [TS]

00:17:14   plot but it's just that this the [TS]

00:17:16   trappings of this film or so glorious [TS]

00:17:19   his a pitch to try and get his scripts [TS]

00:17:22   old which is where he meets Betty and [TS]

00:17:26   she doesn't like his script there's that [TS]

00:17:28   the producer throws off the horrible [TS]

00:17:30   baseball movie that yes you're not [TS]

00:17:32   making a girl's softball team that [TS]

00:17:33   killed me that was just so great and and [TS]

00:17:36   later what you know what later we get [TS]

00:17:38   some more of the Hollywood stuff when [TS]

00:17:39   she goes and meets this will be the mill [TS]

00:17:41   and they're there at the studio and they [TS]

00:17:44   put the spotlight on on her and all of [TS]

00:17:46   that it's like I really liked that idea [TS]

00:17:48   of the end waxworks poker game where she [TS]

00:17:51   has the famous silent movie stars over [TS]

00:17:54   to play poker at her house [TS]

00:17:56   relax when they never say anything [TS]

00:17:57   that's also such a sweet moment to which [TS]

00:17:59   he goes back to the set they the people [TS]

00:18:01   there are excited to see here the people [TS]

00:18:03   she worked with love her and [TS]

00:18:05   really want to see her and even the [TS]

00:18:07   person even the people who have not been [TS]

00:18:09   part of this fantasy for the past 10 15 [TS]

00:18:11   years ago I cannot break this woman's [TS]

00:18:13   heart and tell her why she was [TS]

00:18:15   mistakenly but that she's under the [TS]

00:18:17   impression that we wanted back on the [TS]

00:18:19   set because we love her too much [TS]

00:18:21   literally only when the spotlight is on [TS]

00:18:24   her which I thought was such a great [TS]

00:18:25   mind a second they pull it off everybody [TS]

00:18:27   dissolves and walks away and then the [TS]

00:18:29   boom mike comes down she spots like it's [TS]

00:18:31   a fly this is hovering down i love that [TS]

00:18:34   scene because they had the sense not to [TS]

00:18:38   make a whole new set [TS]

00:18:39   Cecil B DeMille working director have a [TS]

00:18:42   said he was shooting on just went over [TS]

00:18:44   there and use that I love everything [TS]

00:18:46   like that in every movie like that [TS]

00:18:48   especially especially knowing that they [TS]

00:18:50   had to they still had a rent and book a [TS]

00:18:52   huge movie crane and huge lighting [TS]

00:18:54   system just to be in front of the actual [TS]

00:18:57   camera the actual lighting system they [TS]

00:18:59   rented I love every scene like that I i [TS]

00:19:01   enjoy the biliousness of of billy wilder [TS]

00:19:05   towards hollywood because they're when [TS]

00:19:07   they're doing that the pitch of the [TS]

00:19:08   softball movie they're naming these [TS]

00:19:09   actors that could play the right card [TS]

00:19:12   and a greater William Demarest yeah and [TS]

00:19:15   there's a throwaway line about you and [TS]

00:19:16   have rejected gone with the wind and [TS]

00:19:19   that was many was no that was me here [TS]

00:19:23   who wants to see a civil war picture [TS]

00:19:26   yeah I think that's probably the most [TS]

00:19:27   for me the most fascinating thing about [TS]

00:19:29   the movie is the fact that it got made [TS]

00:19:31   at all given that you know Hollywood has [TS]

00:19:33   to be projecting this view of the Dream [TS]

00:19:35   Factory and you know I these workers are [TS]

00:19:38   all they love each other and it's just [TS]

00:19:40   this wondrous rainbow land where nothing [TS]

00:19:43   bad ever happens and I'm sure the fact [TS]

00:19:46   that all of these silent actors were [TS]

00:19:48   basically sidelined and and a good [TS]

00:19:50   percentage of them probably were going [TS]

00:19:52   silently nuts in there the laminated [TS]

00:19:54   mansions you know thinking of the glory [TS]

00:19:57   days is not something that they wanted [TS]

00:19:58   to get out there but it's funny how many [TS]

00:20:00   movies i feel like use that whole trip [TS]

00:20:02   to of like well talking talkies didn't [TS]

00:20:04   agree with the segment pictures when you [TS]

00:20:06   know [TS]

00:20:06   yeah that's true but there were what [TS]

00:20:08   like 20 years of of silent pictures [TS]

00:20:11   before there were there were like you [TS]

00:20:13   know now been like a year to the talkies [TS]

00:20:15   we're still very focused on that and the [TS]

00:20:16   other joke that I want to mention that [TS]

00:20:18   that I thought was a nice securing of [TS]

00:20:19   Hollywood is where he describes some a [TS]

00:20:22   screenplay that he did work on that you [TS]

00:20:23   might have seen and he said I wrote it [TS]

00:20:25   was about okies in the dust bowl by the [TS]

00:20:27   time i got may be played out on a [TS]

00:20:28   torpedo boat it's like what [TS]

00:20:30   it's just i love i love to just you know [TS]

00:20:32   the whole citizens of Hollywood and how [TS]

00:20:34   I mean these are the same jokes that [TS]

00:20:36   people make today about Hollywood is it [TS]

00:20:37   isn't it is not different but i love [TS]

00:20:40   that there is that moment like wow this [TS]

00:20:41   is pretty lacerating for a movie that [TS]

00:20:43   you know obviously got made with a [TS]

00:20:45   budget and became a became famous I'm [TS]

00:20:47   not surprised about that because [TS]

00:20:48   Hollywood loves movies about itself but [TS]

00:20:50   it is pretty lacerating the factor get [TS]

00:20:53   it but it also wound up like playing [TS]

00:20:55   well in the bigger cities and not doing [TS]

00:20:58   very well in like small towns and it [TS]

00:21:01   wasn't up for several years as it they [TS]

00:21:04   released it ended by then become [TS]

00:21:06   something of a classic that that it [TS]

00:21:08   solidified that's not surprising right [TS]

00:21:10   at me as so many sort of Insider E [TS]

00:21:12   things they they play well to the people [TS]

00:21:13   who actually are are on the insides [TS]

00:21:16   weird that well Wilder was so given to [TS]

00:21:19   those jokes given that you would think [TS]

00:21:21   that at that point in his career if he [TS]

00:21:23   wrote a script he could be pretty sure [TS]

00:21:25   that's what's going to show up in a [TS]

00:21:27   movie right now and then we'll get to [TS]

00:21:31   this later installments 17 but the [TS]

00:21:33   apparently the studio suggested maybe [TS]

00:21:37   not making it a German prison camp [TS]

00:21:38   because they want to tell you are they [TS]

00:21:40   wanted to sell it show it in Germany and [TS]

00:21:42   the and that was polish prison guards [TS]

00:21:45   yeah and that was the light and that [TS]

00:21:47   ended up being the last movie he made [TS]

00:21:48   for that studio so so he he had is a [TS]

00:21:53   opinions and they were generally write [TS]

00:21:55   about things I i guess i gave him short [TS]

00:21:58   shrift during the during the summary but [TS]

00:22:00   the erich von stroheim i really like his [TS]

00:22:02   performance and he's very good yeah [TS]

00:22:04   really here it's all the notes of being [TS]

00:22:06   of being just heartbroken for throughout [TS]

00:22:10   yeah even for his part in that I think [TS]

00:22:13   what he gave up he could have been there [TS]

00:22:16   a lot of directors that made the [TS]

00:22:18   transition very very well and he was as [TS]

00:22:20   big as they say he was he could probably [TS]

00:22:23   have made it big but he was bit his his [TS]

00:22:25   career was this person and this is [TS]

00:22:28   another case where you see again [TS]

00:22:30   this bubble of delusion inside this [TS]

00:22:32   house I i love when the things i love [TS]

00:22:34   about that ending is that he's when he's [TS]

00:22:37   a pretending to be directing her she's [TS]

00:22:40   coming down the staircase and pretending [TS]

00:22:42   that the press photographers are all [TS]

00:22:44   like movie cameras [TS]

00:22:45   he's doing he's doing things that really [TS]

00:22:47   are taking him back to when he was there [TS]

00:22:49   a powerful director you see him glancing [TS]

00:22:51   up the lights glancing at this one [TS]

00:22:53   making sure that this person is ready a [TS]

00:22:55   lot more than he needs to sell this to [TS]

00:22:56   this crazy delusional women's I'm [TS]

00:22:58   completely disconnected break he could [TS]

00:23:01   just say you okay little puppy and time [TS]

00:23:04   to yap yap yap for your doggy treat but [TS]

00:23:06   it's there i think this part of him that [TS]

00:23:07   actually kind of like being back in [TS]

00:23:10   control of a film set again [TS]

00:23:11   well there's that earlier scene when [TS]

00:23:13   they're when they're at the studio and [TS]

00:23:14   he points out it with this used to be my [TS]

00:23:16   office it took up this entire space so [TS]

00:23:19   yeah yeah that his performance is kind [TS]

00:23:22   of like a revelation on the first time I [TS]

00:23:25   became aware of this story was god help [TS]

00:23:29   me [TS]

00:23:29   The Carol Burnett Show her spoofs of [TS]

00:23:32   Norma Desmond and feedback [TS]

00:23:35   yes it yeah Harvey Korman doing max and [TS]

00:23:38   you know to go from that and then to [TS]

00:23:40   finally see the movie it's based on and [TS]

00:23:43   see you know just how much more is there [TS]

00:23:46   in their performances and in the script [TS]

00:23:49   um it's a i love it i actually I mean [TS]

00:23:52   one of the things that I have throughout [TS]

00:23:53   this movie is this sympathy for the [TS]

00:23:55   people who are making it because i know [TS]

00:23:57   that in many cases they lived this right [TS]

00:23:59   i mean these were people who actually [TS]

00:24:02   you know Gloria Swanson was a silent [TS]

00:24:05   movie star who didn't work a lot after [TS]

00:24:08   that Erich von Stroheim you know he [TS]

00:24:10   tried to greed just legendary movie but [TS]

00:24:13   he didn't direct movie after the early [TS]

00:24:15   thirties so you know I think that in [TS]

00:24:18   some ways when I look at erich von [TS]

00:24:20   stroheim as Max and he he doesn't you [TS]

00:24:23   know he's just a butler and he doesn't [TS]

00:24:24   direct anymore it's like there's gotta [TS]

00:24:26   be some residents in that too so but it [TS]

00:24:29   is a but you know regardless it is a [TS]

00:24:31   really fun performance and i like i like [TS]

00:24:33   that character a lot and you feel the [TS]

00:24:35   sadness and and the loyalty to her like [TS]

00:24:37   I could I could not believe her i could [TS]

00:24:39   not be away from her he says that's it's [TS]

00:24:41   a it was the first test [TS]

00:24:43   and I don't remember that was I know [TS]

00:24:45   that reveals is so good [TS]

00:24:47   yeah there's a scene as a as she's [TS]

00:24:49   descending the stairs and he's directing [TS]

00:24:51   her when I was just take a quick close [TS]

00:24:53   up of him and you just see him swallow [TS]

00:24:54   and it says so much in that just that [TS]

00:24:57   one moment and from there i think they [TS]

00:24:58   cut over to hedge hopper bawling and [TS]

00:24:59   that that just kind of had but it does [TS]

00:25:02   take a lot of guts now do you think [TS]

00:25:04   about you talk about it about two if you [TS]

00:25:07   worry that people in the real world have [TS]

00:25:09   this perception that your career is over [TS]

00:25:11   with your know where you're nobody til [TS]

00:25:13   your carrier is completely finished 20 [TS]

00:25:15   years ago this no transfer come back [TS]

00:25:17   nobody cares about you and someone says [TS]

00:25:19   we'd like you to play the part of [TS]

00:25:21   someone who used to be big 20 years ago [TS]

00:25:23   used to do the job you did 20 years ago [TS]

00:25:25   was as big as you artwork 20 years ago [TS]

00:25:28   but right now it's nothing nobody knows [TS]

00:25:30   where he is and no one cares about you [TS]

00:25:32   anymore [TS]

00:25:33   that takes a certain amount of [TS]

00:25:34   confidence that it's fat it's [TS]

00:25:36   fascinating if you read the the the [TS]

00:25:37   trivia for this and I i'm sure it's that [TS]

00:25:40   this is actually true I mdp IMDb trivia [TS]

00:25:43   as opposed to made-up IMDb trip [TS]

00:25:46   jessica anderson it but they billy [TS]

00:25:50   wilder and Charles bracket went to a lot [TS]

00:25:52   of um silent movie film actresses to try [TS]

00:25:56   and convince them Mary Pickford and a [TS]

00:26:00   bunch of people maybe I'm a West and i [TS]

00:26:03   believe is Mary Pickford when they [TS]

00:26:05   pitched it to her [TS]

00:26:06   they could see her growing visibly [TS]

00:26:08   disgusting state they are telling the [TS]

00:26:10   story and they just sort of like stop no [TS]

00:26:13   pal we are sorry for taking your time [TS]

00:26:15   we're going to go now please don't give [TS]

00:26:17   us that wasn't justice toughest Oh [TS]

00:26:19   actually we came we we contact you [TS]

00:26:22   because we wanted your car like all your [TS]

00:26:24   pardon her about want to be back again [TS]

00:26:25   to be a big big star [TS]

00:26:27   yeah we have at this place role of a [TS]

00:26:28   pathetic crazy old woman hysterically [TS]

00:26:31   think she still has a career and the [TS]

00:26:32   first person we thought it was you [TS]

00:26:34   missed it again that got some of them [TS]

00:26:37   it's got to be like Oh a role again [TS]

00:26:39   yeah we worry i mean for Norma Desmond [TS]

00:26:41   that reacts to the same thing right it's [TS]

00:26:42   like is some proper was perfectly happy [TS]

00:26:44   to keep working in these the sloppy [TS]

00:26:46   sloppy movies to be a look at Acts [TS]

00:26:49   murderous to be paralyzing from [TS]

00:26:51   characters i was going to say that the [TS]

00:26:54   scene where she does her bathing [TS]

00:26:55   beauties number [TS]

00:26:56   you can draw a direct line from that to [TS]

00:26:59   whatever happened to Baby Jane mm-hmm [TS]

00:27:02   those are very similar performances but [TS]

00:27:05   I don't know that I would consider this [TS]

00:27:06   a pathetic like the character is [TS]

00:27:09   pathetic [TS]

00:27:10   yeah but the performance you get to act [TS]

00:27:13   as much as you possibly can [TS]

00:27:15   uh-huh right you're guaranteed to get [TS]

00:27:17   anything water yeah Gloria Swanson is [TS]

00:27:20   terrific in this video she has and I [TS]

00:27:22   think a lot of that is because she she [TS]

00:27:24   was a silent actress and I mean the [TS]

00:27:26   whole point of being a silent actress is [TS]

00:27:28   to overact as much as humanly possible [TS]

00:27:30   right you can't get it done with with [TS]

00:27:32   your with your voice and boy does she [TS]

00:27:34   ever [TS]

00:27:35   yeah and I think she was able to throw [TS]

00:27:37   her throw herself into the role very [TS]

00:27:39   well the fact is that unlike some of the [TS]

00:27:41   actresses that they approached she had [TS]

00:27:44   transitioned to radio and television and [TS]

00:27:47   stage she was still working she just [TS]

00:27:49   wasn't working in the movies and you [TS]

00:27:52   know when they approached her you know [TS]

00:27:53   she wasn't necessarily looking to go [TS]

00:27:55   back to the movies but she's kind of [TS]

00:27:56   like this is an interesting role like I [TS]

00:27:58   can see myself doing this and she was [TS]

00:28:00   not she was very good friends with [TS]

00:28:01   Michael kurties the director of [TS]

00:28:04   Casablanca he he said if you don't take [TS]

00:28:06   this rule you're you're you're dumb you [TS]

00:28:08   take the role not not every active [TS]

00:28:11   reactor could have taken this real [TS]

00:28:12   leader it really does require you to be [TS]

00:28:14   that kind of professional that can bury [TS]

00:28:16   your own ego and then in the interest of [TS]

00:28:18   making this character work because if he [TS]

00:28:21   if someone who is who is more self [TS]

00:28:23   invested in their own image would say [TS]

00:28:25   well i'm going to say that she's been [TS]

00:28:27   sort of wrong by these other people and [TS]

00:28:29   the reason why she turns out the way she [TS]

00:28:31   does because everybody's been bullying [TS]

00:28:33   her even though she's awesome and great [TS]

00:28:35   and she just sort of broke because of [TS]

00:28:37   all this often pressured know she was [TS]

00:28:38   okay with saying that she was she's had [TS]

00:28:41   continuous problems in the 1990s or [TS]

00:28:45   2,000 we might say that she was [TS]

00:28:47   exhibiting behaviors that were [TS]

00:28:48   diagnostically helpful by a trained [TS]

00:28:51   medical observer but she's willing to [TS]

00:28:53   basically stripped herself of all this [TS]

00:28:55   dignity to become this person that again [TS]

00:28:58   she's living in this glass dome but as [TS]

00:29:00   soon as you put a crack in that dome [TS]

00:29:01   she's gonna do everything she has to [TS]

00:29:03   repair that and prevent a real air from [TS]

00:29:05   coming in I mean any talking about the [TS]

00:29:07   present day i mean the the [TS]

00:29:10   this is a story also about fame and the [TS]

00:29:12   insulating of fame right because she's [TS]

00:29:15   just she is insulated even though she's [TS]

00:29:18   lost it and you know she's got a pet [TS]

00:29:20   chimp she's cut max there sorry [TS]

00:29:24   well I peach and all those pictures of [TS]

00:29:26   her and do some respect for the cheat [TS]

00:29:28   she is insulated entirely from reality [TS]

00:29:31   here which famous people to this day our [TS]

00:29:33   are that the whole time I was watching [TS]

00:29:35   this I just couldn't stop thinking about [TS]

00:29:37   michael jackson and john over here you [TS]

00:29:39   got the end of his life I mean you know [TS]

00:29:41   not just because of the chimp but you [TS]

00:29:43   know how did by the fact that you know [TS]

00:29:44   she had nobody in his life who was going [TS]

00:29:47   to tell him no this is ridiculous what [TS]

00:29:49   you're doing he just had so much power [TS]

00:29:50   and he was insulated from the real world [TS]

00:29:52   and and yeah i mean he's certainly not [TS]

00:29:55   the only one that was just you know the [TS]

00:29:56   monkey made me think of that i wanted to [TS]

00:29:58   mention a counterpoint to Norma Desmond [TS]

00:30:01   there's a really nice scene very late [TS]

00:30:03   without Betty where Joe is talking to [TS]

00:30:07   Betty about her background and she says [TS]

00:30:10   that she was going to be an actor but it [TS]

00:30:13   didn't work out she got her nose fixed [TS]

00:30:14   and because they said well you know [TS]

00:30:17   you've got a problem he knows she got [TS]

00:30:18   her nose fixed and then she came back [TS]

00:30:20   and said yeah also you're not a very [TS]

00:30:21   good actor [TS]

00:30:23   sorry about the nose thing she says she [TS]

00:30:25   doesn't miss the spotlight and i really [TS]

00:30:27   love that because who do we know who [TS]

00:30:29   really really loves the spotlight and [TS]

00:30:31   and and she is happy to be [TS]

00:30:34   behind-the-scenes she wants to work in [TS]

00:30:35   the pictures she comes from a picture [TS]

00:30:37   family she's a script supervisor she [TS]

00:30:39   wants to be a screenwriter she's you [TS]

00:30:41   know she's interested in Joe so she's [TS]

00:30:43   not entirely on the right track she's [TS]

00:30:45   got some things about her that I met you [TS]

00:30:48   it's just it she is kind of a healthy [TS]

00:30:51   counterpart counterpoint to Norma [TS]

00:30:53   Desmond and I really like that scene [TS]

00:30:55   where she's she says that she doesn't [TS]

00:30:57   mean i'm gonna i'm going to counterpoint [TS]

00:30:59   your counterpoint ok ok [TS]

00:31:01   wow yeah QED i think actually Billy [TS]

00:31:06   Wilder kind of stacks the deck against [TS]

00:31:08   poor Norma in this movie and in fact [TS]

00:31:11   that whole the montage where they have [TS]

00:31:13   are getting ready for the part doing [TS]

00:31:16   these horrible [TS]

00:31:17   beauty things and fitness things that [TS]

00:31:20   was actually a a very bitter argument [TS]

00:31:23   broke out between billy wilder and and [TS]

00:31:26   Charles bracket the screenwriter the [TS]

00:31:29   coast screenwriter e over it [TS]

00:31:31   bracket thought it was too cruel and [TS]

00:31:33   Billy well this says I you're stupid and [TS]

00:31:35   they your parents like that too [TS]

00:31:37   they apparently came to to blows almost [TS]

00:31:39   over it and Billy Wilder got his way [TS]

00:31:42   cause he's the director and as soon as [TS]

00:31:44   the movie was over Billy Wilder inform [TS]

00:31:46   Charles bracket they would never work [TS]

00:31:47   together again and that was that Bow and [TS]

00:31:50   then Charles bracket with slowly in San [TS]

00:31:52   that he went mad [TS]

00:31:53   shampa got shot by greta garbo I I tend [TS]

00:31:58   to agree with Charles bracket i think [TS]

00:31:59   they they lay it on a little bit my [TS]

00:32:01   grave a little a little bit thick on on [TS]

00:32:04   poor Norma although although at the same [TS]

00:32:06   time it is kind of a you know it is a [TS]

00:32:09   critique of the the idea that continued [TS]

00:32:12   into this day and age of a woman of a [TS]

00:32:14   certain age being unable to get roles in [TS]

00:32:16   Hollywood because you know they've sort [TS]

00:32:18   of aged out of that demographic sure [TS]

00:32:20   it's it's a fine line to walk and I [TS]

00:32:22   think occasionally the movie trips over [TS]

00:32:24   the line yeah I I think you could say [TS]

00:32:25   that about a lot of thing I mean it is [TS]

00:32:27   very over inflated and very the whole [TS]

00:32:30   movie is kind of a not quite a pastiche [TS]

00:32:33   but right it is it is a grotesque it is [TS]

00:32:35   it's above and beyond sort of all think [TS]

00:32:38   it's funny how when he first drives in [TS]

00:32:40   and he sees the house my immediate [TS]

00:32:42   thought was that it was a great [TS]

00:32:45   expectations which he then calls out [TS]

00:32:47   like 30 seconds after i bought it you [TS]

00:32:48   mentioned that was like oh okay well [TS]

00:32:51   we've hit the nail on the head there but [TS]

00:32:52   it is that sort of you know it is an [TS]

00:32:55   over-the-top movie as we in her acting [TS]

00:32:57   in the plot in in all that and it works [TS]

00:33:00   because it's in service of of the point [TS]

00:33:02   yeah I don't think the beauty routine at [TS]

00:33:04   the end is any any worse than anything [TS]

00:33:06   that we've seen going up to that point [TS]

00:33:08   to be honest with you in particular like [TS]

00:33:11   the the bathing beauty thing and that [TS]

00:33:14   her little chaplain routine which is one [TS]

00:33:16   of the most terrifying things ever see [TS]

00:33:18   here that discordant music by that it is [TS]

00:33:21   just super super creepy i'm actually [TS]

00:33:23   scared of Charlie Chaplin now because of [TS]

00:33:25   that scene [TS]

00:33:25   Buster Keaton probably appreciated that [TS]

00:33:28   watch him and I think all god you should [TS]

00:33:31   be CI told the chaplain was bad [TS]

00:33:33   obviously the the scene with with all [TS]

00:33:35   the beauty stuff that she does to me I [TS]

00:33:38   didn't it didn't seem like it was laying [TS]

00:33:39   on that thick because you guys it's not [TS]

00:33:41   that far removed from some of the stuff [TS]

00:33:42   i have done myself justice i was i was [TS]

00:33:45   the signal just about just now that if [TS]

00:33:48   they had really made this movie like [TS]

00:33:49   right now that seems there's been so [TS]

00:33:51   many knives or be so many needles it [TS]

00:33:54   would be like hammers and chisels that [TS]

00:33:57   was like mellow was anyone else impress [TS]

00:33:59   the Betty got her nose fixed for 300 [TS]

00:34:01   bucks when you think of me that was even [TS]

00:34:03   if I think in 1950 yeah my first thought [TS]

00:34:05   was why would a bargain but how much our [TS]

00:34:07   costs so mean i would have thought that [TS]

00:34:09   plastic surgery to get say like a minor [TS]

00:34:11   knows imperfection fixed you know was [TS]

00:34:14   something that came several decades [TS]

00:34:15   later and and she mentions it in such a [TS]

00:34:18   matter-of-fact way that it must have [TS]

00:34:20   been at least in Hollywood relatively [TS]

00:34:22   normal even then I don't mention just [TS]

00:34:25   one more thing which is how great the [TS]

00:34:27   atmosphere is put in that dilapidated [TS]

00:34:29   house with the a.m pool and the tennis [TS]

00:34:32   world is yours well done and in [TS]

00:34:34   particular the the little bit the very [TS]

00:34:36   small detail of the wind that causes the [TS]

00:34:39   pipe organ Tom so yeah it is i think the [TS]

00:34:41   best thing in the movie for me as usual [TS]

00:34:43   anyone who plays a pipe organ is crazy [TS]

00:34:46   that's just so perfect because it always [TS]

00:34:47   the wind always seems to blow at exactly [TS]

00:34:49   the moment when a creepy organ note is [TS]

00:34:51   called for and I thought it was [TS]

00:34:53   fascinating to even think about you [TS]

00:34:54   going in I knew some of this stuff about [TS]

00:34:56   the movie I knew that he was dead-- [TS]

00:34:58   going in because i actually got that [TS]

00:35:00   like a trivia question a few years ago [TS]

00:35:02   well it's it's a very well parody does [TS]

00:35:04   absolutely absolutely and and i think [TS]

00:35:06   but for me like sort of getting a handle [TS]

00:35:08   on a the movie was much funnier at parts [TS]

00:35:11   not expected though Billy Wilder of [TS]

00:35:12   course and b it is kind of a horror [TS]

00:35:15   movie right like oh she's playing the [TS]

00:35:17   Phantom of the Opera points [TS]

00:35:18   well yeah and it made me think a lot of [TS]

00:35:20   psycho to you know just in terms of [TS]

00:35:22   there are some similarities just in some [TS]

00:35:24   of the shots and some of the some of the [TS]

00:35:26   treatment and the story structure it's [TS]

00:35:27   it's an interesting it's an interesting [TS]

00:35:29   movie because that's more interesting [TS]

00:35:31   than I initially thought it would be [TS]

00:35:33   it's so malleable you're right in that [TS]

00:35:35   you can you really could make it into a [TS]

00:35:37   car [TS]

00:35:37   maybe you could be interpreted as a [TS]

00:35:38   horror film kind of a black comedy yeah [TS]

00:35:40   black black comedy is what i think and [TS]

00:35:42   he said you could almost view it as a [TS]

00:35:44   tragedy [TS]

00:35:45   no not almost that is exactly how i view [TS]

00:35:47   and that's that's actually why I'm not a [TS]

00:35:48   fan of this movie because I'm don't [TS]

00:35:50   generally like tragedies all that much [TS]

00:35:52   add I thought well I thought I had seen [TS]

00:35:55   this before and I didn't mean that i [TS]

00:35:57   hadn't liked it and i watched it and [TS]

00:35:59   realized actually I don't remember [TS]

00:36:00   anything about this but I still don't [TS]

00:36:02   like it because for me I just can't see [TS]

00:36:05   Norma Desmond as this character that i [TS]

00:36:07   was just watching it descend farther and [TS]

00:36:09   farther into the depths of a very [TS]

00:36:11   uncomfortable mental health issue and it [TS]

00:36:14   I i know that there's dark humor to it [TS]

00:36:16   and I absolutely understand people [TS]

00:36:18   seeing it from those other perspectives [TS]

00:36:20   but for me it was just nothing but sad [TS]

00:36:22   sad sad all the way through and I was [TS]

00:36:24   just running out by the end and kind of [TS]

00:36:26   glad it was done [TS]

00:36:27   yeah it's more tragedy to me than [TS]

00:36:29   anything else as well is it and in [TS]

00:36:31   particular because everyone around her [TS]

00:36:33   as such sympathy for but had they have [TS]

00:36:34   no means of of changing anything and [TS]

00:36:38   they certainly can't fix her and any [TS]

00:36:39   attempts to do so just drive for further [TS]

00:36:41   down the path but I mean there's [TS]

00:36:43   certainly William Holden character [TS]

00:36:45   certainly has sympathy for as he comes [TS]

00:36:46   rushing back you know even though he's [TS]

00:36:48   disgusted with the way that he's been [TS]

00:36:50   around her you know it comes rushing [TS]

00:36:51   back after he hears that she's committed [TS]

00:36:53   or attempted suicide and the first [TS]

00:36:55   husband also is doing hanging around [TS]

00:36:57   traffic we can obviously Cecily to mill [TS]

00:37:00   you know is is is saddened and and not [TS]

00:37:04   sure what to do and and kind of box on [TS]

00:37:07   actually telling her that she's not [TS]

00:37:08   supposed to be in the picture and it's [TS]

00:37:10   just the whole thing is very very sad to [TS]

00:37:12   me and that to me was that kind of [TS]

00:37:14   overarching emotion that I took away [TS]

00:37:17   from it more than any of the comedy or [TS]

00:37:19   horror elements I don't think has the [TS]

00:37:20   form of a tragedy like like a lucha de [TS]

00:37:23   la more which is kind of similar in [TS]

00:37:25   which it ends with the the major female [TS]

00:37:28   character having this total disassociate [TS]

00:37:31   of break only the Opera ends with her [TS]

00:37:34   dying actually and but the thing is it's [TS]

00:37:36   that's a proper that that's that's what [TS]

00:37:38   i consider to be a more traditional [TS]

00:37:40   tragedy and that we really don't want [TS]

00:37:43   you we were following this woman luchia [TS]

00:37:46   and we're trying to work every time [TS]

00:37:47   something bad happens [TS]

00:37:48   we're really not seeing it there anybody [TS]

00:37:50   else's eyes were really hoping all this [TS]

00:37:52   is terrible hope she makes her way out [TS]

00:37:53   of this but we're pretty sure that [TS]

00:37:55   because of the format of this opera [TS]

00:37:57   that's not gonna happen [TS]

00:37:58   the only thing that makes me not [TS]

00:37:59   primarily think of this movie is a [TS]

00:38:01   tragedy is that I think that she is the [TS]

00:38:04   figure Norma Desmond is the figure that [TS]

00:38:06   does things other people you know what [TS]

00:38:09   she's manipulating other people [TS]

00:38:10   constantly so that we don't feel badly [TS]

00:38:12   for her but we're more concerned about [TS]

00:38:14   what she's done to this poor director [TS]

00:38:16   who's throwing away his career when he [TS]

00:38:18   might go into the ok but its individual [TS]

00:38:21   its internal visual perception and what [TS]

00:38:23   your money says very very good too and [TS]

00:38:25   that will talk about this when we talk [TS]

00:38:27   about stall 17 but it's interesting when [TS]

00:38:29   used look at events that were kind of [TS]

00:38:31   common and throw away and maybe even [TS]

00:38:33   clich├ęd scenes that now but when we [TS]

00:38:38   look at when we have a scene in which we [TS]

00:38:39   see the men peeping at women showering [TS]

00:38:43   through a telescope [TS]

00:38:44   that's the law go huh wacky barracks hi [TS]

00:38:47   Jace is like know that that's a crime [TS]

00:38:48   that's terrible [TS]

00:38:49   you shouldn't be doing that horrible [TS]

00:38:50   you're you're all horrible people for [TS]

00:38:52   doing that when i was an english class [TS]

00:38:54   in tenth grade I remember you know when [TS]

00:38:57   we were learning about what tragedies [TS]

00:38:58   are you know the real basics are a [TS]

00:39:00   tragic events an unhappy ending [TS]

00:39:03   you know that the main character falls [TS]

00:39:05   at the end and I think we do have all [TS]

00:39:07   those pieces but the one thing that my [TS]

00:39:08   teacher said that I always remember it [TS]

00:39:09   is that that for him the true hallmark [TS]

00:39:12   of the tragedy is that you can kind of [TS]

00:39:13   see it coming all the way through the [TS]

00:39:15   the fillmore the story and i think that [TS]

00:39:17   this I mean it [TS]

00:39:18   we start with the main main character [TS]

00:39:20   the POV character dead at the very [TS]

00:39:22   beginning of it all that's the least [TS]

00:39:23   tragic thing about it really i know and [TS]

00:39:25   then the other main character ends up in [TS]

00:39:28   jail [TS]

00:39:28   I just yeah I think there's there's no [TS]

00:39:30   truer definition for from from my broken [TS]

00:39:33   heart [TS]

00:39:34   at this point I feel for max to watching [TS]

00:39:36   his replacement move into the house [TS]

00:39:38   yeah I thought about that like he has to [TS]

00:39:40   watch finally got rid of that monkey and [TS]

00:39:43   I'm another haha so what you're [TS]

00:39:47   suggesting is that sunset boulevard is [TS]

00:39:49   about a director who murders of monkey [TS]

00:39:51   to get ready [TS]

00:39:52   crap well no my prequel is about that [TS]

00:39:55   all ok that's the wide sargasso sea of [TS]

00:39:58   sucks it that's a sunrise Boulevard nice [TS]

00:40:01   but i was reminded a lot strangely [TS]

00:40:03   enough of of let the right one in which [TS]

00:40:05   you know features the companion to the [TS]

00:40:08   oh yeah Empire the old companion [TS]

00:40:11   yeah and and the the new fellow comes in [TS]

00:40:13   the old one has to stand by and help her [TS]

00:40:15   out and watches the new guy sort of [TS]

00:40:18   takes over his position [TS]

00:40:19   it's a very sad many sad things in this [TS]

00:40:22   movie will you hold it [TS]

00:40:24   we haven't given a whole lot of props [TS]

00:40:26   we've talked about a Joe Gillis is [TS]

00:40:28   character building there buddy but what [TS]

00:40:30   about William Holden great float about [TS]

00:40:32   him [TS]

00:40:32   wonderful floater when you haven't got [TS]

00:40:34   William Holden I like William Holden not [TS]

00:40:36   afraid to be unsympathetic know yet [TS]

00:40:39   mostly I mean there's flashes here and [TS]

00:40:41   their sympathy I think there's he [TS]

00:40:42   brought a lot of nuances to the [TS]

00:40:44   character um I wound up seeing this [TS]

00:40:46   again after several years after Stalag [TS]

00:40:49   17 so it was really interesting to watch [TS]

00:40:52   him inhabit a totally different type of [TS]

00:40:56   cynicism um you know yes he's still sort [TS]

00:40:59   of looking out for himself but in this [TS]

00:41:00   case you know he cares enough about Nora [TS]

00:41:03   at least you know 20 fears that she [TS]

00:41:06   tries to kill herself he goes back he [TS]

00:41:08   doesn't have to but he does he tries to [TS]

00:41:10   do the right thing at the end getting [TS]

00:41:12   Betty you know trying to remove himself [TS]

00:41:15   from the lives of these two women that [TS]

00:41:17   he feels that he needs to confess you [TS]

00:41:20   said he needs to get Betty back on track [TS]

00:41:22   to where she should be in his opinion [TS]

00:41:24   and and try to shake Nora out of Norma [TS]

00:41:29   Desmond out of her delusions even as [TS]

00:41:31   he's getting himself out but I liked how [TS]

00:41:33   holding himself intended to carry [TS]

00:41:37   himself he created so many tix for this [TS]

00:41:39   character there was constantly anytime [TS]

00:41:41   he had a bit of paper in his hand he [TS]

00:41:42   would start folding and rolling and [TS]

00:41:44   playing with it as he's talking on while [TS]

00:41:47   he's writing always having the pencil in [TS]

00:41:50   his mouth and his ear things like that [TS]

00:41:52   he just really brought the character to [TS]

00:41:54   life for me I like he has a good [TS]

00:41:56   physicality to him too i mean it like [TS]

00:41:57   that scene where he goes in to see Betty [TS]

00:42:00   in her office and he sort of strikes a [TS]

00:42:02   pose like leaning against the door frame [TS]

00:42:05   but like it's staged right and you know [TS]

00:42:06   he's trying to present a certain [TS]

00:42:08   atmosphere this the sort of [TS]

00:42:09   devil-may-care and he's playing a [TS]

00:42:11   character even then with her it's very [TS]

00:42:13   different from the you know how he acts [TS]

00:42:16   when he's around Norma and I i really i [TS]

00:42:18   like holding a lot and I think he's good [TS]

00:42:20   in this movie so the end interesting [TS]

00:42:22   just bit of backstory is he was kind of [TS]

00:42:24   down and out at this point in his career [TS]

00:42:26   he he had a big splash in 1939 with [TS]

00:42:30   golden boy and then he spent most of the [TS]

00:42:32   forties making garbage and not being [TS]

00:42:35   very good and garbage either and so this [TS]

00:42:38   this this was kind of his his lifeline [TS]

00:42:41   in a way in a way he was sort of a male [TS]

00:42:44   Norma Desmond um getting back into the [TS]

00:42:46   the big swing of things and yeah it's it [TS]

00:42:49   it's a very uh nuanced performance I [TS]

00:42:54   think now he's a little wooden to me [TS]

00:42:57   must be why you float so LOL relations [TS]

00:43:01   hired him he's handsome enough fella and [TS]

00:43:04   and there's something sort of innately [TS]

00:43:06   likable about him i think and maybe [TS]

00:43:09   that's just because he is a handsome [TS]

00:43:10   fella and he carries himself well but [TS]

00:43:12   also there are points in this movie [TS]

00:43:15   where I feel like he's expected to emote [TS]

00:43:17   a bit more than he gives hmm there's not [TS]

00:43:20   a lot of there's not a lot of emotion [TS]

00:43:21   that comes out of him anything in this [TS]

00:43:23   or star like 7-8 well I would disagree [TS]

00:43:25   with install like 17 on there Steve [TS]

00:43:29   alright let's move on to start like 17 [TS]

00:43:31   which we're gonna brighten things up [TS]

00:43:33   with a story about a not be present a [TS]

00:43:35   prison camp so Steve was saying just [TS]

00:43:38   moments ago [TS]

00:43:39   it's interesting that he should bring up [TS]

00:43:41   William Holden so performance because [TS]

00:43:43   it's three years three years after [TS]

00:43:45   sunset boulevard was made and here is [TS]

00:43:50   Alex 17 which I feel is a very very [TS]

00:43:53   different kind of William Holden [TS]

00:43:55   performance a little bit more assured we [TS]

00:43:57   will have this discussion later but yes [TS]

00:43:59   it's set in a prison camp where all the [TS]

00:44:02   prisoners are apparently sergeants yes [TS]

00:44:05   and therefore and as the again voiceover [TS]

00:44:08   narration from [TS]

00:44:10   he was a sergeant explains yeah you get [TS]

00:44:12   all the sergeant's in the camp and no [TS]

00:44:14   one in everyone's uh getting in each [TS]

00:44:18   other spaces so you open saying how come [TS]

00:44:21   no one ever makes movies about prison [TS]

00:44:23   camps you know we're pretty great [TS]

00:44:25   watching us and we're doing is out they [TS]

00:44:27   should open with Dunbar floating [TS]

00:44:29   facedown in the water [TS]

00:44:30   I can't believe those crazy Nazi shot me [TS]

00:44:34   so yes so we are introduced to all the [TS]

00:44:39   members of the prison camp William [TS]

00:44:40   Holden is sergeant Septon he is the I [TS]

00:44:45   guess you would call them the prison [TS]

00:44:46   camp cad the the scrounger he has how to [TS]

00:44:50   get things he knows how to get things [TS]

00:44:52   and he Parsons them out for her for [TS]

00:44:55   money in the form of cigarettes another [TS]

00:44:58   other Red Cross goods for anyone who's [TS]

00:45:01   seen shawshank redemption this is red [TS]

00:45:04   yes very good thank you very helpful uh [TS]

00:45:07   we meet some other people who are in [TS]

00:45:10   that in the barracks there's Robert [TS]

00:45:14   strauss who plays animal was great [TS]

00:45:18   yeah we'll look at reading about animals [TS]

00:45:21   great hat role you don't want to get in [TS]

00:45:24   here that's five officers look at his [TS]

00:45:26   Lord harvey went back who plays sir I [TS]

00:45:29   guess you're right Garrett has aged [TS]

00:45:30   really thick guy eddie's at ease at ease [TS]

00:45:37   i shave every 20 minutes and digital [TS]

00:45:40   ferret you always get as sergeant second [TS]

00:45:43   is to read and shawshank redemption [TS]

00:45:46   so is a animal to everything Brad gear [TS]

00:45:49   ever done [TS]

00:45:50   there's Harvey one back sergeant Shapiro [TS]

00:45:52   he's he's the sidekick 22 animal he's [TS]

00:45:55   just as contemptible there's Duke uh who [TS]

00:45:59   I I realized in this I hate more than [TS]

00:46:01   happy that he's that he's basically the [TS]

00:46:04   jerk of the barriers the greaser once [TS]

00:46:06   can you have that all you got to be [TS]

00:46:08   there's gonna be a jerk their surgeon [TS]

00:46:10   prices played by Peter Graves who was so [TS]

00:46:12   clean-cut nothing could be wrong with [TS]

00:46:14   him [TS]

00:46:15   look at that fine Teutonic posture and [TS]

00:46:18   then there's the the forgettable bag of [TS]

00:46:21   bones who plays the [TS]

00:46:22   the head of the the chief of the [TS]

00:46:24   barracks who I I can't be bothered [TS]

00:46:27   anyhow the movie opens his Manfredi and [TS]

00:46:29   Johnson are trying to escape from Stalag [TS]

00:46:31   17 it does not go very well because as [TS]

00:46:34   we quickly learned from all the various [TS]

00:46:37   escapes and plots going on in the prison [TS]

00:46:39   camp the Nazis have a mole in Stalag 17 [TS]

00:46:44   in the in that particular barracks so I [TS]

00:46:47   naturally the suspicion turns 27 because [TS]

00:46:50   he is not a team player yeah he is [TS]

00:46:53   clearly he clearly has ends with the [TS]

00:46:56   guards because he's always doing [TS]

00:46:57   trainings and getting to sneak over into [TS]

00:46:59   the the the Russian camp where they hold [TS]

00:47:02   the Russian women prisoners and you know [TS]

00:47:04   plot point that I've never really cared [TS]

00:47:06   for but we establish all this and then a [TS]

00:47:12   lieutenant is dropped into the prison [TS]

00:47:16   campus part of a prison transfer is on [TS]

00:47:18   his way to another camp and we find out [TS]

00:47:20   that he has a basically sabotage the [TS]

00:47:23   train because he and his a little [TS]

00:47:26   searching buddy who is apparently the [TS]

00:47:27   rich little of the of the US Army in the [TS]

00:47:31   1940s yeah we can add him to the [TS]

00:47:33   animated around animal with this animal [TS]

00:47:36   and just one hell of an audition now [TS]

00:47:39   that this there's a lot of characters [TS]

00:47:42   that I don't particularly care for in [TS]

00:47:44   this movie for a movie I generally like [TS]

00:47:46   um yeah so they apparently talking about [TS]

00:47:49   the the sabotage and again the Nazis are [TS]

00:47:52   wise to it and little attendant is taken [TS]

00:47:54   away and oh it was probably Septon who [TS]

00:47:57   who ratted them out except it wasn't [TS]

00:47:59   because as as he says just as the the [TS]

00:48:02   guys beat the living crap out of william [TS]

00:48:06   holden 2nd has the great line that it's [TS]

00:48:08   there are two guys that know I didn't do [TS]

00:48:10   it [TS]

00:48:11   me and the guy who did and so he spends [TS]

00:48:15   the last third of the movie trying to [TS]

00:48:18   figure out who the mole is [TS]

00:48:20   meanwhile the barracks help the [TS]

00:48:23   lieutenant escape worries he end up [TS]

00:48:25   hiding in a water tank while they try [TS]

00:48:28   and figure a way to get them out of the [TS]

00:48:29   Camp this is when a septum finally puts [TS]

00:48:33   two and two together and realize it's [TS]

00:48:35   that night [TS]

00:48:36   nice sergeant price has been tipping off [TS]

00:48:37   the Nazis because he's really secretly a [TS]

00:48:40   German I and he's a champ [TS]

00:48:42   yes he could not look more German it's [TS]

00:48:48   either him or that kid with the blog [TS]

00:48:50   pompadour [TS]

00:48:51   no I'm from Cleveland this is the exact [TS]

00:48:55   Snyder version of watchmen Ozymandias of [TS]

00:48:58   style like seven [TS]

00:48:59   there's no doubt it anytime yeah this [TS]

00:49:02   dude is is the spy why you want this [TS]

00:49:05   area in golden boy here now I'm not hard [TS]

00:49:08   to believe I was a little thrown when he [TS]

00:49:09   asked if you had seen a grown man naked [TS]

00:49:11   but beyond yeah [TS]

00:49:13   also he's the head of security for the [TS]

00:49:15   barracks section but yeah sure [TS]

00:49:17   while the rest of that barracks really [TS]

00:49:18   suck selecting people they they really [TS]

00:49:20   they really vetted people out well [TS]

00:49:22   before they hide the lieutenant there's [TS]

00:49:26   a previous scene where they get them [TS]

00:49:27   that the way it works is that the the [TS]

00:49:29   the guy who's in charge of the other [TS]

00:49:32   prisoners gets them out into the yard [TS]

00:49:33   and then they do it little transfer [TS]

00:49:35   involving a chest piece and and what [TS]

00:49:37   happens is Septon basically hires in the [TS]

00:49:41   Bering yes and seniors behind ya and [TS]

00:49:44   sees peter graves talking to him about [TS]

00:49:48   the situation room in this sergeant [TS]

00:49:51   schultz yeah i got all ripped off by [TS]

00:49:54   Hogan's Heroes yeah and they're talking [TS]

00:49:57   German and then setting goes on and then [TS]

00:50:00   he has to figure out window when to play [TS]

00:50:01   his hand in his hand is forced by the [TS]

00:50:03   fact that they that they reveal the [TS]

00:50:05   location of lieutenant Dunbar to peter [TS]

00:50:08   graves and peter graves volunteers to be [TS]

00:50:11   the one to break them out of years and [TS]

00:50:12   I'm gonna get about a prison and so [TS]

00:50:14   septum has to move right then or the [TS]

00:50:16   whole thing is up I'm gonna get him out [TS]

00:50:18   of prison and right into a nice firing [TS]

00:50:19   squad yeah and uh second makes a very [TS]

00:50:23   compelling case given the fact that [TS]

00:50:25   everyone in the barracks apparently [TS]

00:50:26   hates him that uh this nice clean-cut [TS]

00:50:29   young Aryan boy is in fact a Nazi double [TS]

00:50:33   agent and does have physical proof [TS]

00:50:35   there's the the if he didn't have that [TS]

00:50:37   chest piece in his jacket yeah [TS]

00:50:40   I don't think I don't think I would have [TS]

00:50:41   played for me well there's the Pearl [TS]

00:50:42   Harbor thing [TS]

00:50:43   yes yeah yeah also he slaps him which [TS]

00:50:47   seems to be what really causes everyone [TS]

00:50:48   take all right yeah an American wouldn't [TS]

00:50:50   take a slap [TS]

00:50:51   well then Peter Graves makes a bold for [TS]

00:50:53   it to which kind of cement yeah yes [TS]

00:50:55   Peter Peter Graves so it really does not [TS]

00:50:58   play his hand very well done well under [TS]

00:51:00   pressure [TS]

00:51:01   no it ain't just like a Nazi so yeah [TS]

00:51:05   good burn your Nazi's take that guys who [TS]

00:51:09   were defeated 6070 years ago so it ends [TS]

00:51:14   up being second who's going to sneak the [TS]

00:51:16   lieutenant out of the camp and he uses a [TS]

00:51:18   section price as the decoy where they at [TS]

00:51:22   the appointed hour thrown out of the of [TS]

00:51:25   the barracks the naughty prison guard [TS]

00:51:27   shoot poorer poor stupid peter graves [TS]

00:51:30   and William Holden escapes with the [TS]

00:51:34   lieutenant and able to dominate her [TS]

00:51:37   after here for big boy job [TS]

00:51:40   yes just lie down to no one can hear you [TS]

00:51:43   over the gunfire all Death with Dignity [TS]

00:51:45   for Peter gray is really although I do [TS]

00:51:48   wonder how was his house his his attempt [TS]

00:51:51   to get dunbar and turn him over going to [TS]

00:51:54   work because all the same things still [TS]

00:51:56   apply when he leaves the building and [TS]

00:51:58   get them out of the tank they're just [TS]

00:51:59   all going to open fire on and I think he [TS]

00:52:01   was going to sneak over to the to [TS]

00:52:03   sergeant schultz and say hey is in the [TS]

00:52:06   water tank and then they would have all [TS]

00:52:07   gone to the water tank yeah [TS]

00:52:09   nope just for the rest of the quicks [TS]

00:52:12   choose another day for sergeant schultz [TS]

00:52:13   because i keep just I can't get [TS]

00:52:16   seriously sick room and seeing ceremony [TS]

00:52:20   and public you Sigmund sacrum and now [TS]

00:52:23   start a previous old movie club entry of [TS]

00:52:26   mad at the Opera [TS]

00:52:27   oh that's right so this movie took me a [TS]

00:52:29   little by surprise because i looked at [TS]

00:52:32   the category was in i didn't i didn't [TS]

00:52:34   know anything about the plot or anything [TS]

00:52:35   but I saw the category as a war drama [TS]

00:52:38   and so I had my expectations set always [TS]

00:52:42   turns out this is where mash and Hogan's [TS]

00:52:45   Heroes and meatballs stole all the right [TS]

00:52:47   seriously this is absolutely a common [TS]

00:52:50   call and else [TS]

00:52:51   right you know yeah it's a straight up [TS]

00:52:52   comedy yeah I was not expecting comedy [TS]

00:52:54   and i'm watching it develop and at first [TS]

00:52:57   it's like okay yeah they're setting [TS]

00:52:58   things up and then the two strauss & [TS]

00:53:01   limbeck start and I'm just like no time [TS]

00:53:04   I i wrote down my note is this movie has [TS]

00:53:07   tone problems and i liked it i actually [TS]

00:53:09   liked it a lot but it is a really good [TS]

00:53:12   movie in spite of a lot but one of the [TS]

00:53:14   things about it is it you know you can't [TS]

00:53:16   say it's just a comedy because honestly [TS]

00:53:18   the last 25 minutes is really tense and [TS]

00:53:21   dramatic and interesting that's still [TS]

00:53:23   funny in a lot of ways the first act [TS]

00:53:25   features of features two murders [TS]

00:53:27   I don't think it is a not unlike Sunset [TS]

00:53:29   Boulevard say I think there are elements [TS]

00:53:30   of dark comedy I mean it is it is [TS]

00:53:32   definitely darkened are definitely tense [TS]

00:53:34   moments but it's still overall I mean [TS]

00:53:37   it's not like it's not it's not quite [TS]

00:53:38   the great escape right like it's not [TS]

00:53:40   it's not just a like straight-up action [TS]

00:53:43   right yours in victory with sylvester [TS]

00:53:45   stallone okay Leigh I wind up here or [TS]

00:53:48   Bridge on the River Kwai with William [TS]

00:53:50   Holden to talk about the term problems [TS]

00:53:51   though I mean mobile my problem with it [TS]

00:53:52   is like it and and you're absolutely [TS]

00:53:54   right mash I i had a lot of mesh [TS]

00:53:56   feelings in this especially when they [TS]

00:53:57   showed off the still ready to play yeah [TS]

00:53:59   okay so William Holden looks a little [TS]

00:54:01   too much like Frank Burns for company [TS]

00:54:03   that's true that's true as a weasel but [TS]

00:54:05   the beginning of the movie is the part [TS]

00:54:07   that I had the biggest problem with [TS]

00:54:09   because its broad and a nes and the [TS]

00:54:13   problem i have with it is they are [TS]

00:54:15   prisoners of war in Nazi Germany and I [TS]

00:54:19   honestly it took me a while to get over [TS]

00:54:22   the fact that they are joshing with a [TS]

00:54:26   sig ruman and it's all just kind of [TS]

00:54:29   wacky and zany and yeah things are tough [TS]

00:54:31   but we're all just getting on and making [TS]

00:54:33   things work and I don't know it it felt [TS]

00:54:37   like it needed to feel a little bit [TS]

00:54:38   grimmer than that for me to really kind [TS]

00:54:41   of buy into the movie and I got there [TS]

00:54:42   eventually because the tone actually [TS]

00:54:45   does turn about half an hour in but that [TS]

00:54:47   last half hour slider Vicki and yeah [TS]

00:54:49   there's that scene where the the rich [TS]

00:54:52   little of the third uh-huh [TS]

00:54:55   God put some that they'll wear the [TS]

00:54:57   Hitler mustaches and are doing writable [TS]

00:54:59   the Hitler thing that's a weird at that [TS]

00:55:01   must have played great in 1953 but it's [TS]

00:55:04   not so kind of kind of disturbing yeah I [TS]

00:55:07   take off your moustaches [TS]

00:55:09   I don't know why I laughed my ass off at [TS]

00:55:11   the head one here I think it's funny I [TS]

00:55:13   think it's funny but a lot of this movie [TS]

00:55:14   is contextual right i mean it is a movie [TS]

00:55:16   that's much much closer to world war two [TS]

00:55:18   and we don't have the you know 70 years [TS]

00:55:20   of hindsight when they're when they're [TS]

00:55:21   making this but I think it's pretty [TS]

00:55:23   funny I my favorite scene for humorous [TS]

00:55:26   to see where they convince the german [TS]

00:55:27   car to play volleyball to distract him [TS]

00:55:30   from the radio antenna LOL i am [TS]

00:55:32   delighted that German that is beautiful [TS]

00:55:35   oh my god [TS]

00:55:36   here's a wire leading from the from the [TS]

00:55:37   volleyballs in that into the barracks [TS]

00:55:40   I've got all but yes I that means [TS]

00:55:41   nothing to me a lot of things probably [TS]

00:55:43   distracted by yeah these are not you you [TS]

00:55:45   imagine it places the stereotype that if [TS]

00:55:48   you could if you're really good at being [TS]

00:55:50   brave and shooting at people they [TS]

00:55:51   wouldn't keep you a member of war camp [TS]

00:55:54   party people [TS]

00:55:55   this is everything I could not be more [TS]

00:55:56   delighted with that German guard he's [TS]

00:55:58   always been saying included in the [TS]

00:56:00   volleyball team even though he has no [TS]

00:56:01   idea how to clap ya hands over his gone [TS]

00:56:04   over this is pretty serious team that is [TS]

00:56:09   hilarious and then when he gets caught [TS]

00:56:11   then he sort of a whoever whoever it is [TS]

00:56:13   that he handed his gun to just sort of [TS]

00:56:14   sheepishly hands it over to the the more [TS]

00:56:17   with it guard that caught my eye i do [TS]

00:56:19   agree that that it has a bit of a tone [TS]

00:56:21   problem that you know i would think i [TS]

00:56:23   like this movie but i think i would love [TS]

00:56:24   it if they would have taken out every [TS]

00:56:26   single animal seen ya been able to do [TS]

00:56:28   that you know when you talk about like [TS]

00:56:30   the the guard with the volleyball which [TS]

00:56:31   is ridiculous [TS]

00:56:33   um and those types of things I mean yes [TS]

00:56:36   it's comical but the Germans for the [TS]

00:56:38   most part are the butt of the jokes so [TS]

00:56:40   especially at that time I can understand [TS]

00:56:43   the the idea of humor and especially in [TS]

00:56:46   the humor that's directly pointed at the [TS]

00:56:48   Germans as look at them you know they [TS]

00:56:50   lost the war and this is why because [TS]

00:56:52   they're dumb enough to hand their gun to [TS]

00:56:54   wanted to some guy playing volleyball [TS]

00:56:55   and forget about what he's supposed to [TS]

00:56:57   be doing just remember that just because [TS]

00:56:58   they're dumb doesn't mean they're stupid [TS]

00:57:00   that's right before [TS]

00:57:01   wanna go good point i really wish that I [TS]

00:57:03   was trying to find a copy of the of the [TS]

00:57:05   actual stage play was wondering if the [TS]

00:57:08   stage play was all of the serious [TS]

00:57:09   dramatic stuff inside the barracks and [TS]

00:57:11   all the funny stuff that's outside the [TS]

00:57:13   barracks estar stuff they added open up [TS]

00:57:15   the world little bit and make it more of [TS]

00:57:16   a movie the exact opposite robert stroud [TS]

00:57:19   strauss-kahn Lembeck we're both in the [TS]

00:57:21   play i believe that shows that they have [TS]

00:57:24   their timing down perfectly so they can [TS]

00:57:27   do their comedy bits and animal can just [TS]

00:57:30   make a face and that's all they need to [TS]

00:57:32   do and I would like to propose that this [TS]

00:57:35   is the opposite of a regular movie where [TS]

00:57:37   you have a drama and then these two [TS]

00:57:38   idiots as comic relief i think this is a [TS]

00:57:41   comedy with moments of dramatic really [TS]

00:57:43   and it was a relief it's actually one of [TS]

00:57:47   the things that I want to mention was [TS]

00:57:48   that this definitely feels stage ii and [TS]

00:57:51   in fact i think that the contrast [TS]

00:57:52   between the drama and comedy is one of [TS]

00:57:54   the things that made it feel really [TS]

00:57:56   stage you to me because I can corner [TS]

00:57:57   sort of imagine how after you have the [TS]

00:57:59   scene of of kind of with dramatic [TS]

00:58:01   tension you also want to have some some [TS]

00:58:03   comedy bits happening in the foreground [TS]

00:58:05   on the side of the stage and it feels [TS]

00:58:07   like that like what like you know [TS]

00:58:08   ok and this scene is over and now we're [TS]

00:58:10   going to go back to over here we've got [TS]

00:58:11   some more weight wacky prison antics and [TS]

00:58:14   it keeps going back and forth the whole [TS]

00:58:16   thing is that there is a sort of a [TS]

00:58:17   premise happening here even within the [TS]

00:58:19   movie right like they're putting up a [TS]

00:58:20   front about hey we're just here you know [TS]

00:58:22   relaxing is where prisoners of war what [TS]

00:58:24   can we do will be no here for the [TS]

00:58:26   inspections when they come through and [TS]

00:58:27   then when the Germans are out of the [TS]

00:58:28   room you know a lot of times they're [TS]

00:58:29   doing our Kayla's can be in our [TS]

00:58:30   committee let's talk about escapes let's [TS]

00:58:32   talk about all this writing in the beer [TS]

00:58:33   easy there is a premise yes Eric there's [TS]

00:58:36   a fiction they're presenting to the [TS]

00:58:38   guards and like this whole relationship [TS]

00:58:40   even with Schultz to is you know him [TS]

00:58:43   like a that dropping the dead right like [TS]

00:58:45   that they have kind of this weird [TS]

00:58:47   relationship it's almost not quite it's [TS]

00:58:49   like a fiction of Stockholm Syndrome [TS]

00:58:51   almost and so I i'm ok with the tone [TS]

00:58:54   exercise i saw this movie the first time [TS]

00:58:55   I don't know 10 15 years ago and I i [TS]

00:58:58   really i remember being startled by then [TS]

00:59:00   as I think many of you were now not [TS]

00:59:02   going into it and not really knowing [TS]

00:59:03   what it was about especially cuz i think [TS]

00:59:06   he's shortly around this time i also saw [TS]

00:59:08   Bridge on the River Kwai is it is Erica [TS]

00:59:11   saying another William old movie [TS]

00:59:13   you that's about a prison camp on the [TS]

00:59:15   other side of the world but you know and [TS]

00:59:16   I do appreciate you that he makes a [TS]

00:59:18   comment at some point about like if you [TS]

00:59:19   get out you just end up flying and then [TS]

00:59:21   end up in Japanese prison camp like the [TS]

00:59:23   only I love hard all William Holden that [TS]

00:59:26   I don't know what's comin one of my [TS]

00:59:28   favorite books is actually the great [TS]

00:59:29   escape the non-fiction book from which [TS]

00:59:32   the heavily fictionalized movie was made [TS]

00:59:34   at least the book says it's nonfiction [TS]

00:59:37   there was no the one where the British [TS]

00:59:38   prisoners are British [TS]

00:59:40   yes and from that book and from other [TS]

00:59:43   POWs escaped books I've read they were [TS]

00:59:45   playing pranks on the Germans an awful [TS]

00:59:48   lot maybe not to this degree but and I [TS]

00:59:52   mean the guy who wrote this and who [TS]

00:59:54   wrote the play who is actually in the [TS]

00:59:55   movie i believe it i believe it he he [TS]

00:59:59   was actually [TS]

00:59:59   was actually [TS]

01:00:00   instead like 17 I'm ever in a German [TS]

01:00:02   prison camp i can remember that was the [TS]

01:00:03   name i believe it [TS]

01:00:04   Adam driver looks great in this movie [TS]

01:00:06   yeah he was my favorite of all of them [TS]

01:00:10   well because he underplays it unlike [TS]

01:00:12   animal and exactly and shapiro hot the [TS]

01:00:15   people in cold it's actually had time to [TS]

01:00:17   build an entire glider in the Attic of a [TS]

01:00:20   prison didn't launch but and also keep [TS]

01:00:22   in mind that it [TS]

01:00:23   keep in mind that they're the version of [TS]

01:00:25   the war experience by a lot of those [TS]

01:00:27   people is different from the version of [TS]

01:00:28   the war that we've seen you know [TS]

01:00:30   presented after the fact is a lot of [TS]

01:00:32   them didn't know just quite how you know [TS]

01:00:34   quite the level of atrocity going on for [TS]

01:00:38   an excellent catalog of that obviously a [TS]

01:00:40   band of brothers that seems Bilderberg [TS]

01:00:42   series you know there's a lot of war [TS]

01:00:43   being fought with these guys are in [TS]

01:00:44   prison camps they don't really know [TS]

01:00:45   what's going on other than their [TS]

01:00:47   prisoner so I i think you know they're [TS]

01:00:48   trying to make the best of a bad [TS]

01:00:49   situation to a certain extent which i [TS]

01:00:52   think is fine [TS]

01:00:52   up to a point i like the the I believe [TS]

01:00:55   it i like some of the probably like that [TS]

01:00:57   the pranks that working plane of the [TS]

01:00:58   guards I just I didn't like the the [TS]

01:01:00   stage ii humor bits that were clearly [TS]

01:01:02   just for the audience how did you feel [TS]

01:01:04   about the wild amount of sexual [TS]

01:01:06   harassment when the new Russian honestly [TS]

01:01:09   I didn't make I'm not gonna say I liked [TS]

01:01:11   it but I didn't really have a problem [TS]

01:01:12   with it because it really seemed fitting [TS]

01:01:14   for this the time it was really works [TS]

01:01:17   and russian women didn't seem [TS]

01:01:18   particularly put off by it either so [TS]

01:01:20   well there's my purse those women are [TS]

01:01:21   awesome [TS]

01:01:22   now you're talking about anytime I do i [TS]

01:01:25   do enjoy the scene where they paint the [TS]

01:01:27   line down the record if you just let him [TS]

01:01:28   throw to throws the video light through [TS]

01:01:31   that's that's the one seen it there's we [TS]

01:01:32   know I didn't have an issue with with [TS]

01:01:35   the tone frankly either but I i [TS]

01:01:37   definitely agree with you Jason as far [TS]

01:01:39   as it's sort of feeling like having that [TS]

01:01:41   sort of stage feeling to it particularly [TS]

01:01:43   like midway through the second act I was [TS]

01:01:45   certain it in a stage play something [TS]

01:01:48   horrible with certainly happen and it [TS]

01:01:49   would like cast a pall on all the [TS]

01:01:51   community that came before and [TS]

01:01:52   everything else would be sort of the [TS]

01:01:54   resolution or or moving on and now it [TS]

01:01:56   and i would probably win intermission [TS]

01:01:57   happen there's literally a moment here [TS]

01:01:59   without oh that's where the intermission [TS]

01:02:00   was not sure I can see you thinking it's [TS]

01:02:03   coming something terrible is going to [TS]

01:02:04   happen someone is going to be horribly [TS]

01:02:06   murdered or you know it's just [TS]

01:02:07   completely gonna cast a pall and [TS]

01:02:08   everything and never came which I was [TS]

01:02:10   glad of but the whole way through the [TS]

01:02:11   movie I was [TS]

01:02:12   like oh it's coming it's coming this is [TS]

01:02:14   war drama i saw it on IMDb yeah actually [TS]

01:02:17   I have been saying I unlike unlike the [TS]

01:02:20   previous movie we talked about [TS]

01:02:22   I didn't think that I had seen style [TS]

01:02:23   like 17 and i didn't think i would like [TS]

01:02:25   it because i don't like war movies when [TS]

01:02:27   we started watching it and like 30 [TS]

01:02:29   seconds and I was like I seen this so [TS]

01:02:31   not only had I had actually seen it had [TS]

01:02:33   not remembered i really i quite liked [TS]

01:02:35   this movie so I but I've come to the [TS]

01:02:37   conclusion that i don't like war movies [TS]

01:02:39   but i do like prisoner of war movies [TS]

01:02:41   especially starring lee holder only [TS]

01:02:44   welder must really be thrilled with your [TS]

01:02:46   comments tonight erica i said well i do [TS]

01:02:49   not remember anything about your movies [TS]

01:02:51   but ok girl okay i don't know i like I [TS]

01:02:54   mean mentioning match i love mash it's [TS]

01:02:56   one of my all-time favorites i love that [TS]

01:02:58   it mixes comedy and drama and it's got [TS]

01:03:02   sort of zany high jinks and then rapid [TS]

01:03:04   shifts into other tones and I got some [TS]

01:03:06   of that vibe from from stalling 17 and I [TS]

01:03:08   liked that I got that it's it's like [TS]

01:03:10   like I said you know there's stuff that [TS]

01:03:12   I think was maybe a little bit too much [TS]

01:03:13   for me but i did i did like that aspect [TS]

01:03:16   of it that they are you know they're [TS]

01:03:19   making the best of a terrible situation [TS]

01:03:20   and that there's some sort of darkness [TS]

01:03:22   of like well you gotta laugh but there's [TS]

01:03:24   also terrible things that happened i [TS]

01:03:26   really like the guy that goes Enys don't [TS]

01:03:30   have voices like that in movies anymore [TS]

01:03:32   guys know career anymore he's just in [TS]

01:03:34   his dilapidated mansion waiting for them [TS]

01:03:36   to call him back [TS]

01:03:38   so why is animal so horrible you want [TS]

01:03:41   somebody explain to me because I thought [TS]

01:03:42   he was great i thought he was great i [TS]

01:03:44   thought he absolutely nailed a try like [TS]

01:03:45   animal i think if you didn't know that [TS]

01:03:48   it was a who was the stage actor and who [TS]

01:03:51   was the movie actor you could pinpoint [TS]

01:03:53   accurate that guy's acting on stage is a [TS]

01:03:56   little broad is what you're saying but I [TS]

01:03:57   really I i love some of the physicality [TS]

01:03:59   of both him and shapiro like the c-more [TS]

01:04:02   holder this cooking the egg and they [TS]

01:04:04   sort of do the slow rock over there so I [TS]

01:04:07   mean there's some great [TS]

01:04:08   there are some great aspects to that [TS]

01:04:09   performance i can understand people say [TS]

01:04:11   makes you brought by personally I i [TS]

01:04:13   really enjoyed the two of them as a is a [TS]

01:04:15   comedy bit [TS]

01:04:16   that's because the two of them were sort [TS]

01:04:17   of separate from everything else going [TS]

01:04:19   on and yeah that's that I guess it that [TS]

01:04:21   I guess that's my main problem with them [TS]

01:04:23   that of [TS]

01:04:24   they're very broad and I forget who [TS]

01:04:28   mentioned the the subtle things that [TS]

01:04:29   William Holden does the state business [TS]

01:04:32   he doesn't Sunset Boulevard but he [TS]

01:04:34   really does it here where it's a it's [TS]

01:04:36   not of he doesn't do a big broad acting [TS]

01:04:40   performance and he's he's playing scenes [TS]

01:04:42   with those guys in it [TS]

01:04:44   speaking of the total problems you've [TS]

01:04:45   gotten like on the waterfront with [TS]

01:04:48   marlon brando and that said I rip I [TS]

01:04:51   really hate duke i think most of all [TS]

01:04:54   ok.thank he's a jerk I like i was able [TS]

01:04:56   to keep start starting matches on his [TS]

01:04:58   face mask about the animated movie is [TS]

01:05:01   when he was at the end when he realizes [TS]

01:05:03   that we were all wet on you and he says [TS]

01:05:05   forget it and lights a match on myspace [TS]

01:05:07   oh yeah I don't really see where Dukas [TS]

01:05:10   humiliated is great and has a signboard [TS]

01:05:13   this is not a very the the original [TS]

01:05:16   movie version of DOA is not a very good [TS]

01:05:19   movie but he he plays the heavy in that [TS]

01:05:22   and our spot alert he dies it is so [TS]

01:05:25   glorious girl yeah take that Duke but [TS]

01:05:29   that Duke in this picture don't care i [TS]

01:05:32   love that William Holden never stops [TS]

01:05:34   being a jerk oh yes that's right way out [TS]

01:05:38   even just see the skin knows that neck [TS]

01:05:40   with all you got ok [TS]

01:05:41   the one time you see him break is when [TS]

01:05:43   he first realized that okay if I'm going [TS]

01:05:46   to live in the next 48 hours I'm gonna [TS]

01:05:48   have to find out who the u.s. weasel is [TS]

01:05:50   and just duck here take my cigarette so [TS]

01:05:52   how about a hundred cigarettes and you [TS]

01:05:54   know that he was you can see in his eyes [TS]

01:05:55   if he had not been interrupted that got [TS]

01:05:57   that Schultz was going to absolutely [TS]

01:05:59   tell them with what was going down he [TS]

01:06:02   just the one place he loses his cool and [TS]

01:06:04   you see the desperation before he comes [TS]

01:06:06   back again and probably just through [TS]

01:06:09   happenstance rather than him find his [TS]

01:06:11   own space center again but still at its [TS]

01:06:14   I if we had not seen that desperation I [TS]

01:06:16   think it would have been a lot harder to [TS]

01:06:18   root for him as we could continue go on [TS]

01:06:21   anybody do like his attitude of not [TS]

01:06:22   caring but you're right he does he does [TS]

01:06:24   crack at that moment and that's the [TS]

01:06:25   thing where he realizes i guess i have [TS]

01:06:27   to solve this myself right that like I [TS]

01:06:28   my old trading is not going to do it [TS]

01:06:30   here so many subtle things that have to [TS]

01:06:32   happen like that one [TS]

01:06:34   and at the very very beginning where it [TS]

01:06:35   work port is pointing at pointed out [TS]

01:06:37   that he's not just a weasel who will [TS]

01:06:40   just take advantage of everybody in [TS]

01:06:41   every situation he has one maybe it's [TS]

01:06:44   just two lines he says well the first [TS]

01:06:45   night I was here I've got my left shoe [TS]

01:06:47   was stolen my students respond all the [TS]

01:06:49   stuff was no that's when I learned that [TS]

01:06:50   you've got to take care of yourself [TS]

01:06:52   because no one's gonna take care of you [TS]

01:06:53   in this place yeah and that you still [TS]

01:06:55   don't think that he's a wonderful human [TS]

01:06:56   being but you don't think he's just a [TS]

01:06:58   flat-out ass one more thing that makes [TS]

01:07:01   it sort of did that made getting into [TS]

01:07:03   this movie sort of disjointed for me arm [TS]

01:07:06   was Gil Stratton is character is cookie [TS]

01:07:08   doing voiceover yeah yeah oh yeah [TS]

01:07:12   because he has such a at first I thought [TS]

01:07:14   it was holding because I'd seen this [TS]

01:07:16   movie first I had didn't remember what [TS]

01:07:18   holds voice sounded like immediately and [TS]

01:07:20   I'm going like he sounds way too folksy [TS]

01:07:22   and come and and gee whiz to to be this [TS]

01:07:26   character that i read about in the [TS]

01:07:27   synopsis and it took me the longest time [TS]

01:07:30   to sort out I I needed that scene where [TS]

01:07:33   they had everybody in the line and they [TS]

01:07:34   start naming this one this one this one [TS]

01:07:36   I'm like thank you now i can sort them [TS]

01:07:39   all out but that was another point where [TS]

01:07:43   the voice-over irritated me more than it [TS]

01:07:46   did in Sunset Boulevard because it it [TS]

01:07:49   just ended and but so much of it was [TS]

01:07:51   just the fact that we we never get away [TS]

01:07:53   from just what a and just want an Archie [TS]

01:07:57   character who feels like I don't know [TS]

01:08:00   why we need a voiceover in this one at [TS]

01:08:02   all either it's really just like hey [TS]

01:08:03   folks we're making a movie and you're [TS]

01:08:05   gonna watch it i hope you enjoy it i'll [TS]

01:08:06   be back later to tell you you're still [TS]

01:08:07   watching a show [TS]

01:08:09   traditional hey contribute anything just [TS]

01:08:13   ask for cookie I felt like that was to [TS]

01:08:15   putty over the lack of actual narrative [TS]

01:08:17   for most of it yeah like they were [TS]

01:08:19   trying to protect it as there was this [TS]

01:08:20   one thing that happened then there was [TS]

01:08:22   another thing that happened was kind of [TS]

01:08:24   vignettes whack the zone student the [TS]

01:08:26   scenes do not flow one into the other [TS]

01:08:27   now that is very clear the stage as I [TS]

01:08:30   feel like that was part of the staging [TS]

01:08:31   this of the two is like and seen the [TS]

01:08:34   lights down lights come back up and and [TS]

01:08:37   there was some of that I want to kill [TS]

01:08:38   can i mentioned um well first of all [TS]

01:08:40   share box auto privileges are wanna you [TS]

01:08:44   gotta favorite scene in the movie so the [TS]

01:08:46   is at the scene where he puts on his [TS]

01:08:47   boots just so we happen to get was [TS]

01:08:49   talking on the phone to Berlin and he [TS]

01:08:51   takes them right back off he's the sort [TS]

01:08:53   of man who puts on his boots so we can [TS]

01:08:55   salute properly on a phone call and it's [TS]

01:08:58   not just that he has his servant put his [TS]

01:09:00   boots on for him and then take them back [TS]

01:09:02   off i like when they lay down some links [TS]

01:09:04   for him yeah across the mud [TS]

01:09:05   not only that but remember that he's got [TS]

01:09:08   that he's got the The Saboteur in his [TS]

01:09:10   office only to make sure now here's my [TS]

01:09:11   name is vol make sure they tell you to [TS]

01:09:14   please talk to the SS you tell him that [TS]

01:09:16   it was me who got you to confess my name [TS]

01:09:18   is gone i like it down for ya [TS]

01:09:20   I got the Mukhabarat for you as my time [TS]

01:09:22   my tumblr invite also amazing jodhpurs [TS]

01:09:26   that I think premature [TS]

01:09:27   yeah oh yeah I don't he dressed himself [TS]

01:09:29   yes rolls around and he's got the whole [TS]

01:09:32   story about his family and how we're [TS]

01:09:34   like well then we're not to go you know [TS]

01:09:36   the soldiers of the world will always in [TS]

01:09:38   the back but its best very important [TS]

01:09:40   thing it's just it's great it's all [TS]

01:09:41   great [TS]

01:09:42   well it's an important part because [TS]

01:09:43   otherwise that the Nazis in this movie [TS]

01:09:46   are all goofballs and Batman play [TS]

01:09:49   volleyball women and their guns two [TS]

01:09:51   prisoners and he he actually lends an [TS]

01:09:53   air of menace to the the movie where the [TS]

01:09:55   SS guys who come at the very end are [TS]

01:09:57   like Oh finally somebody competent is [TS]

01:09:58   here it's like the when they bring the [TS]

01:10:00   SS guys in those guys are not yokels but [TS]

01:10:03   you do get a sense of the rest of the [TS]

01:10:05   Germans of other than sure box ar-ar-ar [TS]

01:10:08   guar not their best material sergeant [TS]

01:10:11   schultz is way more competent than the [TS]

01:10:13   whole conception Schultz he's friendly [TS]

01:10:15   but he gets the job just get the jump he [TS]

01:10:17   and he has a degree of sinister this to [TS]

01:10:20   him because he has those dark look [TS]

01:10:21   city that he gives when he's on he's [TS]

01:10:23   pulling out the chest piece to give this [TS]

01:10:25   internal stitches by the way Phil if if [TS]

01:10:27   you enjoyed seeing Neville brand get [TS]

01:10:29   plugged in DOA you might also appreciate [TS]

01:10:32   the terrible 1976 horror movie eaten [TS]

01:10:35   alive [TS]

01:10:35   don't go haha obviously what you think [TS]

01:10:37   student and this movie here adding to my [TS]

01:10:42   netflix queue some other things that I [TS]

01:10:45   enjoyed about this movie um I like the [TS]

01:10:48   Washington Sox and the potato soup that [TS]

01:10:50   made me laugh where everybody hated done [TS]

01:10:54   eating anybody else need breakfast [TS]

01:10:56   ok ok you know the socks just started [TS]

01:10:58   watching any rat race literally AAS [TS]

01:11:01   horse race with rats where the rat spins [TS]

01:11:04   around and around and around as all the [TS]

01:11:05   other rats blow past it may God [TS]

01:11:07   Seabiscuit they got all the great course [TS]

01:11:09   names on these rats [TS]

01:11:10   it's best not to think too hard about [TS]

01:11:11   how they got that rat to spin around [TS]

01:11:13   like that don't you know [TS]

01:11:15   mmm i love the bit about how they get [TS]

01:11:17   the ping-pong only because sometimes a [TS]

01:11:19   ping-pong wolf that doesn't come into [TS]

01:11:21   play nearly as much as i would hope it [TS]

01:11:22   would but they have their strong up as [TS]

01:11:24   decorations yeah the Christmas [TS]

01:11:26   decorations [TS]

01:11:27   ok and used for making smoke yeah yeah [TS]

01:11:30   exactly but those are just like funny [TS]

01:11:32   bits and again that's sort of like camp [TS]

01:11:33   I jinx mash kind of jokes but I I [TS]

01:11:37   enjoyed all of that and I liked how that [TS]

01:11:38   that interlaced with the the overall [TS]

01:11:40   part plot of who the mole is that was [TS]

01:11:43   all that was all good i like this movie [TS]

01:11:44   i thought this movie i I've complained [TS]

01:11:46   about animal i complained about the tone [TS]

01:11:48   but the fact is i thought this was a [TS]

01:11:49   really good movie i thought this was a [TS]

01:11:50   lot of fun it was not what I was [TS]

01:11:51   expecting [TS]

01:11:52   and I thought it was a nice mixture of [TS]

01:11:55   all those things as we said that you [TS]

01:11:57   know it's a little bit of Hogan's Heroes [TS]

01:11:58   and mash and meatballs and stripes and [TS]

01:12:01   you know all sorts of things that [TS]

01:12:03   obviously now I realized we're totally [TS]

01:12:05   ripped off [TS]

01:12:06   it's the hairs versus the square is yup [TS]

01:12:08   the Nazis are the squares [TS]

01:12:10   yeah let's be clear it's a lot of [TS]

01:12:12   Hogan's Heroes well yeah when I watch it [TS]

01:12:15   again knowing what's coming [TS]

01:12:17   i think i will enjoy it more now you can [TS]

01:12:19   look at that Peter Graves from the very [TS]

01:12:20   beginning and be like I don't trust that [TS]

01:12:22   guy i forgot to the spy was yeah having [TS]

01:12:26   seen this movie a long time ago I guess [TS]

01:12:28   I was actively trying to [TS]

01:12:29   get out again so it's cool yeah i was [TS]

01:12:31   convinced for a while it was quiet Joey [TS]

01:12:32   I had never seen either of these movies [TS]

01:12:34   before and and I i looked at the times [TS]

01:12:37   on them and I went oh our 5000 two hours [TS]

01:12:41   because there have been times on old [TS]

01:12:43   movie club where that have sort of drag [TS]

01:12:45   maybe just then I'll speak to management [TS]

01:12:48   about that absolutely both of these time [TS]

01:12:51   just flew by i didn't find myself [TS]

01:12:53   checking to see how much was left on [TS]

01:12:54   either of these movies they just blasted [TS]

01:12:56   through they were entertaining [TS]

01:12:57   throughout I love them both but they [TS]

01:12:59   were great good job film [TS]

01:13:00   yeah thank you for both great I i think [TS]

01:13:03   this movie rises and falls on William [TS]

01:13:05   Holden and i happen to really dig his [TS]

01:13:07   performance in that no matter how much [TS]

01:13:09   for me here either [TS]

01:13:10   well to be honest really very [TS]

01:13:12   interesting well there goes my theory [TS]

01:13:13   thanks Steve [TS]

01:13:14   well I don't like about his performance [TS]

01:13:16   I'm not he did win the Oscar for Best [TS]

01:13:18   Actor for this by the way I just kind of [TS]

01:13:21   there for me he thinks he won at first [TS]

01:13:23   as a consolation for sunset boulevard [TS]

01:13:26   yeah that some people say it i think he [TS]

01:13:29   does a very good job of getting this [TS]

01:13:32   line there there's a line of anger that [TS]

01:13:35   is uncommon for a performance in the [TS]

01:13:37   movie like this that really motivates [TS]

01:13:41   that characters actions and it really [TS]

01:13:43   comes across well i think with William [TS]

01:13:45   Holden aye i also think he does a lot of [TS]

01:13:48   showing uh you see just in the way his [TS]

01:13:54   hands actively he carries himself I [TS]

01:13:56   think he tells a lot about the character [TS]

01:13:58   I just think it's a really confident [TS]

01:14:00   really uh a solid performance which is [TS]

01:14:03   funny because he didn't want to do it he [TS]

01:14:05   Billy Wilder made him go to the sea the [TS]

01:14:07   stage play walked out at intermission [TS]

01:14:09   because he thought that the second [TS]

01:14:11   character was terrible he said I was [TS]

01:14:13   waiting for that horrible thing to [TS]

01:14:14   happen it just didn't happen when I say [TS]

01:14:18   anything that's those are good points [TS]

01:14:19   villain and i have to agree that the the [TS]

01:14:21   thing that I did see in his performance [TS]

01:14:23   that I really liked was the scene where [TS]

01:14:24   he comes back from the Russian womens [TS]

01:14:27   barracks and everybody's lined up ready [TS]

01:14:29   to beat on him and the body language [TS]

01:14:32   that he has in that scene as he's kind [TS]

01:14:34   of he realizes he's gonna get clobbered [TS]

01:14:36   there's a major transition that goes on [TS]

01:14:38   and in how he carries himself in that [TS]

01:14:40   seat that [TS]

01:14:41   is very good and perhaps it stands out [TS]

01:14:43   for me just because it can you have [TS]

01:14:45   Robert Strauss and her feet left PEC [TS]

01:14:47   doing doing something so that people in [TS]

01:14:49   the back road cleveland and ceiling are [TS]

01:14:52   definitely playing wingman for William [TS]

01:14:53   this movie up so that that's why i think [TS]

01:14:57   though [TS]

01:14:57   well William Holden drags this movie [TS]

01:14:59   kicking and screaming to to where it is [TS]

01:15:03   in my estimation and the and the reason [TS]

01:15:05   he didn't want to didn't want to play [TS]

01:15:07   this character is he just thought he was [TS]

01:15:08   all like a very unlikable a very likable [TS]

01:15:11   person so I mean I feel like they're [TS]

01:15:12   there must have been a lot of temptation [TS]

01:15:14   for him as an actor to try to play this [TS]

01:15:16   character softer and sort of make him [TS]

01:15:18   more likeable and you know a good on him [TS]

01:15:21   for not doing that he didn't he kept he [TS]

01:15:23   kept him very sort of you know harsh in [TS]

01:15:25   just not not a good guy and he I think [TS]

01:15:28   part of that was wilder insisting that [TS]

01:15:30   yeah and it's all because i think this [TS]

01:15:33   is the most William Holden that William [TS]

01:15:34   Holden forbid i really like that he he [TS]

01:15:38   was the clean-cut guy in the tidy [TS]

01:15:40   uniform [TS]

01:15:41   there's that good guys or the slot yeah [TS]

01:15:44   for the rain burns peril so the skis [TS]

01:15:47   braised bribing the guards for like [TS]

01:15:49   fresh clothes and laundry service [TS]

01:15:51   yeah yeah I think I hit the problem with [TS]

01:15:53   who I I like holding in this I think [TS]

01:15:55   septons really interesting character I [TS]

01:15:57   there's a structural problem that [TS]

01:15:58   probably comes from the from the screen [TS]

01:16:00   plan from this from the script from the [TS]

01:16:03   stage play is Septon feels to me like a [TS]

01:16:08   character part that not the lead and I [TS]

01:16:12   feel like the camp needs a lead [TS]

01:16:15   Antonia its animal and shapiro yeah the [TS]

01:16:17   lead well I yeah well yeah so anyway [TS]

01:16:20   there you my theory back to back to [TS]

01:16:22   something that isn't animal whose [TS]

01:16:23   terrible the I feel like that is kind of [TS]

01:16:27   what's the missing piece here is that I [TS]

01:16:28   almost want Holden to be more clearly [TS]

01:16:31   like not holding this up on his own that [TS]

01:16:34   having that other kind of like main [TS]

01:16:36   mover in the in the cast of the American [TS]

01:16:39   sergeants and there isn't anybody so [TS]

01:16:42   he's just sort of it so I when I started [TS]

01:16:45   judging realizing like oh I guess he's [TS]

01:16:47   the guy i guess there is nobody else I [TS]

01:16:49   like the character a lot better a bigger [TS]

01:16:51   but it'd be my initial read on him was [TS]

01:16:53   like oh I get it he [TS]

01:16:55   one of the bit you know he's one of the [TS]

01:16:56   bits he's the grifter in the corner and [TS]

01:16:59   it's like nope there's nobody else he's [TS]

01:17:00   it and i think that i think that doesn't [TS]

01:17:02   serve him well but I think it's a really [TS]

01:17:04   good performance i like it a lot i just [TS]

01:17:05   i think structurally would have made [TS]

01:17:07   more sense if he had somebody like just [TS]

01:17:09   like a straight edge to really play off [TS]

01:17:11   of and clash with and there isn't [TS]

01:17:13   anybody if only Charles bracket was here [TS]

01:17:15   to work on the script with me well there [TS]

01:17:17   you think price learn how to play the [TS]

01:17:20   washboard during his time in cleveland [TS]

01:17:21   or the benefit tonight and he's probably [TS]

01:17:27   just part of his super-secret spy [TS]

01:17:29   training of o got ya it's like it's like [TS]

01:17:32   doing the laundry but you just take away [TS]

01:17:33   the laundry [TS]

01:17:35   well clearly you've never seen the [TS]

01:17:37   washboard sequence and swing kids where [TS]

01:17:39   they just break out the washboard sure a [TS]

01:17:41   while [TS]

01:17:42   yeah they may have left the potato soup [TS]

01:17:43   at the bottom of the barrel who knows [TS]

01:17:45   you know every single episode of the [TS]

01:17:47   incomparable these me hungry now I want [TS]

01:17:49   eggs and potatoes the data services [TS]

01:17:51   yeah you get it quick before they start [TS]

01:17:53   watching the sox in here and maybe a [TS]

01:17:56   soccer too high i just didn't want to [TS]

01:17:58   put in a word for a i recently think a [TS]

01:18:00   year ago so saw another Billy Wilder [TS]

01:18:02   movie set in Germany which is 123 [TS]

01:18:05   I'm range I I actually enjoyed that [TS]

01:18:07   movie that was really fun [TS]

01:18:09   it's just plod it is a lot but it's good [TS]

01:18:11   but it's funny and a little it's totally [TS]

01:18:15   sort of over-the-top somewhat satirical [TS]

01:18:18   it's a good it's worth watching them [TS]

01:18:20   young horse poo colts that's all you [TS]

01:18:22   need yeah yeah he's great [TS]

01:18:24   what is Wilders like percentage hit the [TS]

01:18:27   movie right before this ace in the hole [TS]

01:18:29   is amazing yeah you know I i wouldn't [TS]

01:18:32   say the billy wilder's my favorite [TS]

01:18:33   director but boy you mean movies that he [TS]

01:18:36   makes and I've clean joy watching them [TS]

01:18:38   is that these aren't even my two [TS]

01:18:40   favorite Billy Wilder movie and I would [TS]

01:18:42   be some like about that and the fortune [TS]

01:18:44   the fortune cookie is actually I think I [TS]

01:18:47   really hurtin too and there's witness [TS]

01:18:50   for the process yeah with this week we [TS]

01:18:52   could just we could watch Billy Wilder [TS]

01:18:54   movies in this thing and and it would [TS]

01:18:56   fill up a year of program actually billy [TS]

01:18:58   wilder and Charles Brett bracket wrote [TS]

01:19:00   the screenplay for one of my favorite [TS]

01:19:02   movies of all time which is a midnight [TS]

01:19:04   starring Claudette Colbert autonomy [TS]

01:19:06   so I know ya always happy to see his [TS]

01:19:09   name even if he's not directing I'm [TS]

01:19:11   ready to go check all of his movies and [TS]

01:19:12   see just how many of them have [TS]

01:19:14   voiceovers because I've seen that's not [TS]

01:19:17   always gonna I've seen some like it hot [TS]

01:19:19   i don't remember if there's voiceover [TS]

01:19:20   and that no but no house / voiceover [TS]

01:19:23   free that that's why it is best but it [TS]

01:19:25   does have really intrusive Cary Grant [TS]

01:19:28   imitation trip I'll you know what you [TS]

01:19:31   doin just what you wanted the other yeah [TS]

01:19:33   you know the imitations guy was really [TS]

01:19:34   really irritating oh yeah I could [TS]

01:19:36   totally see him being like the [TS]

01:19:38   everybody's favorite guy in the present [TS]

01:19:41   moment where the lieutenant very clearly [TS]

01:19:43   as exasperated by his wacky impressions [TS]

01:19:46   it's like can we just get on with it as [TS]

01:19:48   long as the people in the movie know [TS]

01:19:49   he's annoying and I think it's [TS]

01:19:51   deliberate that his impressions or [TS]

01:19:52   thereabouts [TS]

01:19:53   I think would make some hateful is that [TS]

01:19:54   the camp just eats it up so this guy's [TS]

01:19:57   great girl [TS]

01:19:58   no he's now do Grable Betty Grable [TS]

01:20:00   you're missing the conversation of the [TS]

01:20:02   background this take a look at some [TS]

01:20:04   point we're gonna have an escape we're [TS]

01:20:05   going to need to send some guy the wrong [TS]

01:20:07   direction to get shot at least I can do [TS]

01:20:10   you think laughs laughs and keep asking [TS]

01:20:11   for the first get Jimmy tagging Jimmy [TS]

01:20:13   Durante he'll be dead very soon he was [TS]

01:20:15   accepted first choice for decoy before [TS]

01:20:17   priced heard that they don't have their [TS]

01:20:19   own televisions ok the bar is low i [TS]

01:20:22   wanted to really briefly say that out [TS]

01:20:25   there's a scene right after they hide [TS]

01:20:26   the radio with the Nazis come in and [TS]

01:20:29   everybody is doing actual nonchalant [TS]

01:20:31   whistling love that I've never seen it [TS]

01:20:35   sincerely done before [TS]

01:20:37   well in Germany they haven't seen like [TS]

01:20:39   all the cartoons in which we understand [TS]

01:20:41   the fed's fav right all right I think [TS]

01:20:43   we're done with the with these two billy [TS]

01:20:45   wilder movies but perhaps there are more [TS]

01:20:46   to come [TS]

01:20:47   who knows who these were gonna probably [TS]

01:20:49   not yeah there's something else I feel [TS]

01:20:53   how we do [TS]

01:20:53   quit while you're ahead i say we did [TS]

01:20:55   good i had i'm i'm always as I think I [TS]

01:20:58   mentioned on every show i am always [TS]

01:21:00   pleased when movies that I pic are not [TS]

01:21:03   like really derided and people yell at [TS]

01:21:06   me for for wasting two hours of their [TS]

01:21:09   evening so yes 1776 here okay [TS]

01:21:14   that was the one Joe that was there was [TS]

01:21:17   that point of bayonet yeah no problem [TS]

01:21:21   alright well i would like to thank [TS]

01:21:23   everybody Phil Michaels of course as [TS]

01:21:25   always thank you for picking the movies [TS]

01:21:27   yeah thank you and also thanks for [TS]

01:21:29   joining me Monty Ashley Jason check [TS]

01:21:31   these studs get these couplings Andy and [TS]

01:21:36   I coke I feel like he may be up to [TS]

01:21:42   something nonchalantly asleep yeah I [TS]

01:21:45   couldn't find my ocarina I'm sorry [TS]

01:21:46   that's the best i could do always been a [TS]

01:21:49   guy wouldn't even though we didn't even [TS]

01:21:50   tell him because he's stupid day more [TS]

01:21:55   and here's a box of ping-pong balls [TS]

01:21:59   listen Erica inside thank you thank you [TS]

01:22:04   but if I ever run into any Obama's on a [TS]

01:22:06   street corner [TS]

01:22:07   let's just pretend under mat cutter [TS]

01:22:11   thank you very much for being here [TS]

01:22:12   always a pleasure and Steve let's thank [TS]

01:22:15   you thank you Jason and if you need any [TS]

01:22:17   help with the coffin call me thanks to [TS]

01:22:21   everybody out there for listening to [TS]

01:22:23   this episode of old movie club or booby [TS]

01:22:26   khlo [TS]

01:22:27   goodbye [TS]

01:22:42   [Music] [TS]