185: A Three-Edged Sword
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this episode of the uncomfortable is
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the incomparable number 185 Morris 2014
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welcome back to the incomparable podcast
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I'm your host Jason snail and when we
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were coming up with the idea for this
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podcast those many years ago i actually
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have a tweet somebody suggested we do a
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Babylon 5 episode my said absolutely
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we're absolutely gonna do it turns out
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we are going to do it before we hit
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number 200 but yeah i took a while but
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we ate it's finally happening i have
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gathered together people i know who like
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me watched all of and treasurer Babylon
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5 the nineteen nineties era sci-fi
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series written by J michael Straczynski
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starring a large and rotating cast of
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people telling an epic story that was
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meant to go for five years except the
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kind of crammed into four because they
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were afraid they were going to cancelled
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and then they didn't get cancelled so
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they had to like fail
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ok let's still some other stories now
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but anyway I have a look back on the
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series with great fondness it definitely
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is of its time in some ways but in
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watching some episodes back i was really
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i really enjoyed it was reminded why i
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love it so much so we're gonna talk
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about Babylon 5 and joining me to talk
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here is my own little league of
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non-aligned worlds yeah there's a
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reference area not kohai the war the
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I think knew they were doomed where
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another race with surrender to despair
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the humans fought back with greatest
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think they made them in body fight for
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every inch of space in my life I've
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never seen anything like it they would
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weep they would pray they would say
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goodbye to the left ones and then throw
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themselves without fear or hesitation at
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the very face of death itself never said
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anything
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hi Jason behind you got everybody else
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got a soliloquy planned
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yes Erika and sign I heard your voice
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there hello hello
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I was just gonna say i am not the one I
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don't like I did not know that uh that
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uh that when when we met and I recruited
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you for this podcast that you were about
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15 you were so this is a a unexpected
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bonus area so that's the real that all
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of us I think chips other things out
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there you've heard him on many doctor
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who related topics especially I bring
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him in he's my doctor who ringer but
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turns out that chip and Erica and I
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don't know others are doing a Babylon 5
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podcast that should be coming out soon
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anyway we'll get to that chip
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hello boom shaka-laka-laka boom
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shaka-laka-laka oh man that was not my
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favorite moment but anyway yes I get
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references knowledge references miloge
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ason it's good to have you here and mr.
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garden berg it's a michael greenberg
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he's back we talk about wrath of khan
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with him a while ago and he was always
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on my Babylon 5 list we finally made it
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hello in tools any Jason and I don't
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like I will I don't want to say the
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incomparable is my second favorite thing
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in the image Cooper
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oh and uh and my my my next guest is
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wait a second
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sorry there are known next guesses math
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not satra skill that was my reference
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you see because I didn't have a neutral
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to do either way it is very bad for
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zarus so let me it's ok Jason anybody
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after Andy where we were all gasping for
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air after that only not pretty much
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really yeah yeah you know I was either
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that or the member or the or the
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dysentery lightbulb joke and I decided
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to go for both of them
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you know you know what were we watched
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four episodes I'm and I'm going to tell
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you what they were and we always just
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obviously we've seen all of them maybe
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even multiple times but we for as a
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refresher I think we all had our service
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i meant to watch four episodes 1-4 me to
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the first four seasons just to remind
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ourselves a little bit and be fresh for
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this i wanted to mention those since you
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mentioned this the dynamic especially
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between londo and shekhar and we will
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we'll get into the characters but um
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there's a there's a reference that the
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Babylon 5 reference that my family that
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in my house still gets made is from the
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episode where the condo in shikahr
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trapped in the elevator together
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mondo mondo is just shouting and he's
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like can anyone hear me into courses for
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we still do that I thought I thought
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you're talking about all that beautiful
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last line with her heard the car like
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finally realizes that his plan to kill
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that doesn't allow Londo to die like
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just didn't didn't work and I excuse me
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a longer than I hate my life or do I I
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thought you're gonna go with so many
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fishes are no fish left in the seed
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longer when you come on my spoon is
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getting kind of serious its roots about
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these little well-done better fresh
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that's true so Babylon 5
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I we're like many characters big
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storylines came out in the the mid to
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late nineties it was a new age no that's
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not what i was going to say so many
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references here to pack and we watched
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so just for the record we watched
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midnight on the firing line from season
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one in the shadows are doing from season
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2 interludes and examinations from
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season three and no surrender no retreat
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from season four will talk about them
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but we are going to do a non-spoiler
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section where we talk about why we like
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Babylon 5 without getting into so many
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details about where the show goes in
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terms of its story and and so don't if
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you're thinking about all the sounds
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interesting maybe i'll watch the show
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sometime stick around at least until the
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spoiler horn i ask you and um I don't
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know where what do you guys think we
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should begin should we start with
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characters I mean that that's one of the
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things that I think struck me in
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watching these four episodes back is it
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was not just all i remember that
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storyline was not interesting but it's
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like you know I I immediately start
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thought oh londo and shekhar and and and
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john sheridan and delenn and veer who is
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obviously a windows 8 who is played for
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until you realize he's actually quite a
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great character and not just a joke at
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all and so many other mr. Garibaldi and
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security chief Zach and dr. Franklin and
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a lot just and ivana of course what a
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crazy character Susan fond of the second
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command and I so I think we should start
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there and just you know if it about
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these characters because i think in in
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hindsight the story arc of Babylon 5
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which was at its time fairly
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groundbreaking to do tell the story over
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the course of a lot a long time you got
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a lot of attention but you know you come
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may become for the story arc but you
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gotta stay for the characters and the
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characters especially that long ago in
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your car pairing of the two ambassadors
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from you know lifelong enemy the alien
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that's what stuck with me and that was
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what felt like home when I watch these
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episodes back especially compared where
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they wind up to where they start off I
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have to I have to admit that I toilet
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full no no my candidacy of a dick i'm
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simply selling the point as a bullet
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point feature on the side of the body's
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got excellent is that is that characters
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evolve you don't have simply that there
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was nobody whispering into michael
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Straczynski is here now remember we
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don't know in what order people are
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gonna see these we have to reset
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everything and if your characters are
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typical well they don't have to change
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in personality or well your
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understanding of who they are and i have
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to admit that I think that one of the
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most of the brilliant things about the
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show was that that I hated the the pilot
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because each of these bitches characters
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is sort of the science-fiction archetype
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and of course i had to do pre pre you
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know internet podcast i had my oh this
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is so late
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oh good so you got the Vulcans who are
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like all like peaceful and whatnot and
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then you got the kid the characters that
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are clear that you've gotten are clearly
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the Klingons and then ok great another
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black border race and then the open then
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not knowing until like long long after
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that that no this is wherever this he
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started I think he populated this pilot
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with art with that those kind of tropes
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so that he would have room to move them
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around on the chessboard later on and so
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it wasn't until I think was you Jason
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who was the the strongest voice saying
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no dude you had season 2i know what
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you're talking about it's much better
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now that got me absolutely hooked on in
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season two so it's that evolution that
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you know even even when we were i was
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watching like a half-dozen or dozen
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episodes over the past week or so to see
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that I see the pilot then I see season 2
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season 3 season 4 and just saying that
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all man if I could tell this character
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in season two
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honey you have no idea what's happening
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what's gonna happen to you next year
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how interesting it is that you felt that
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way right now so that that's what the
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signature a great feature of the shows
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in fact it's it's very clear from the
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first season and the way that story goes
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that he and he set justice since he has
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set these characters on a path for them
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to be everything that they didn't expect
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to be and that we didn't expect them to
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be like there's no no character goes
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especially the alien characters that we
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expect to be these archetypes but even
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humans they all have a story arc and
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they all are leading somewhere that is
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unexpected that it that isn't a counter
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to all of the expectations from your
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usual sci-fi kind of trope absolutely
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and on top of that the get a lot of this
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character development comes from pitting
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the characters against each other
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it's not it's not a star trek scenario
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where the a single monolithic cast
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encounters the guest stars of the
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weekend if the characters are changed
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afterward
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that's an unexpected bonus because it's
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episodic television but jakar vs Londo
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the cost versus well costumers and
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whatever agenda it is that he is playing
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out the secret villains who show up
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later on everything
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it's it's it's very our care heavy
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storytelling and you might and it's very
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plots intricate is it heavily plotted
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story but the plot is basically
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character a once this character be with
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is willing to stop character a what
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happens next and that's the thing that
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just makes me eat up this show with a
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it's the evolution of these characters
[TS]
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as they evolve over the four years
[TS]
00:11:21
◼
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they're not the same people we met early
[TS]
00:11:24
◼
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on or or who we thought we met early on
[TS]
00:11:27
◼
►
you know londo and in some of the first
[TS]
00:11:30
◼
►
episodes comes across as just sort of a
[TS]
00:11:32
◼
►
buffoon you know who's going to take him
[TS]
00:11:35
◼
►
very very seriously
[TS]
00:11:38
◼
►
Sinclair doesn't necessarily come off
[TS]
00:11:40
◼
►
and he's clearly no Captain Picard or
[TS]
00:11:43
◼
►
you know everyone changes on and their
[TS]
00:11:48
◼
►
relationships change i'm close friends
[TS]
00:11:50
◼
►
are suddenly not you know not so close
[TS]
00:11:52
◼
►
by the end of the park and you have
[TS]
00:11:57
◼
►
tremendous consistency through the story
[TS]
00:11:59
◼
►
which again is a no person driving crazy
[TS]
00:12:02
◼
►
the inconsistencies are going back and
[TS]
00:12:05
◼
►
watching this I kind of realized
[TS]
00:12:07
◼
►
watching this episode again just start
[TS]
00:12:08
◼
►
in that on the firing line
[TS]
00:12:10
◼
►
wow there's things here that totally
[TS]
00:12:13
◼
►
don't make any sense you would notice
[TS]
00:12:14
◼
►
until season to season three yeah and
[TS]
00:12:18
◼
►
that was all flat-out just subtle little
[TS]
00:12:20
◼
►
things that you know when you hit you go
[TS]
00:12:23
◼
►
oh yeah I remember that from you know
[TS]
00:12:24
◼
►
season 1 episode 4 and now that
[TS]
00:12:28
◼
►
reference makes particular sense and he
[TS]
00:12:31
◼
►
kept doing that consistently he wasn't
[TS]
00:12:34
◼
►
afraid to shuffle the deck from time to
[TS]
00:12:35
◼
►
time he wasn't afraid to throw a
[TS]
00:12:38
◼
►
surprise or two at us from time to time
[TS]
00:12:40
◼
►
and I think even the way they resolved
[TS]
00:12:44
◼
►
it you know it kind of got to the point
[TS]
00:12:45
◼
►
where it's sort of like okay I get this
[TS]
00:12:47
◼
►
you know it's this is the this is like
[TS]
00:12:49
◼
►
okay we've seen this before you know
[TS]
00:12:50
◼
►
it's good versus evil and then we get to
[TS]
00:12:52
◼
►
a point like well what was it really
[TS]
00:12:56
◼
►
about before we get too far off of
[TS]
00:12:59
◼
►
characters i just want to jump
[TS]
00:13:01
◼
►
I can say that the consistency of of
[TS]
00:13:04
◼
►
character i think also comes through its
[TS]
00:13:07
◼
►
they had as you all said amazing arcs
[TS]
00:13:10
◼
►
just within themselves that the
[TS]
00:13:11
◼
►
characters definitely developed but i
[TS]
00:13:14
◼
►
recently went through and did an entire
[TS]
00:13:16
◼
►
rewatch of the whole five years and then
[TS]
00:13:19
◼
►
jumped back to watch the first episode
[TS]
00:13:21
◼
►
midnight on the firing line for this and
[TS]
00:13:24
◼
►
I was really struck by how the
[TS]
00:13:27
◼
►
characters are still the same people
[TS]
00:13:31
◼
►
Londo in the first episode is completely
[TS]
00:13:33
◼
►
different from the londo and the last
[TS]
00:13:34
◼
►
episode he really has a very big change
[TS]
00:13:38
◼
►
to his personality but it's a natural
[TS]
00:13:40
◼
►
development it's not like the writer
[TS]
00:13:43
◼
►
came in and very clinically changed the
[TS]
00:13:45
◼
►
character to suit the narrative and
[TS]
00:13:47
◼
►
called a character development which you
[TS]
00:13:48
◼
►
sometimes see this you look at that
[TS]
00:13:50
◼
►
Lando and you can going back it was like
[TS]
00:13:52
◼
►
oh wow this is young Londo this is this
[TS]
00:13:55
◼
►
is him as a kid not really a kid but
[TS]
00:13:57
◼
►
before he experienced everything is
[TS]
00:13:59
◼
►
there's a scene in I is it no surrender
[TS]
00:14:03
◼
►
no retreat where we're lond assisted to
[TS]
00:14:05
◼
►
jakar something by him
[TS]
00:14:08
◼
►
it's been a bad year for the difficult
[TS]
00:14:10
◼
►
here and you can see these four years
[TS]
00:14:11
◼
►
have been you know momentous and has its
[TS]
00:14:15
◼
►
changed everybody and there's an
[TS]
00:14:17
◼
►
acknowledgement of that and when you
[TS]
00:14:18
◼
►
look back to the beginning you can see
[TS]
00:14:20
◼
►
it that the these these characters
[TS]
00:14:22
◼
►
change as a result of the the what
[TS]
00:14:25
◼
►
happens to them in the story which is
[TS]
00:14:26
◼
►
you know that's how it's supposed to be
[TS]
00:14:28
◼
►
and that is how it is with a lot of TV
[TS]
00:14:30
◼
►
now but in the day you know the
[TS]
00:14:32
◼
►
benchmark in it when Babylon 5 came on
[TS]
00:14:34
◼
►
the air with Star Trek The Next
[TS]
00:14:35
◼
►
Generation essentially the only show
[TS]
00:14:39
◼
►
that was that had been on for any length
[TS]
00:14:41
◼
►
of time it was a sci-fi show and it was
[TS]
00:14:43
◼
►
all standalone episodes as were most
[TS]
00:14:45
◼
►
mainstream dramas at this time so to
[TS]
00:14:47
◼
►
tell this story and and tell it over
[TS]
00:14:50
◼
►
time and let those characters grow and
[TS]
00:14:51
◼
►
change and not reset every week was
[TS]
00:14:54
◼
►
pretty dramatic but even Nick mark shows
[TS]
00:14:56
◼
►
like lost great the characters kinda for
[TS]
00:14:59
◼
►
the most part don't change least they
[TS]
00:15:00
◼
►
didn't to me they were all more or less
[TS]
00:15:02
◼
►
the same they go through some you know
[TS]
00:15:04
◼
►
evolution here you have characters
[TS]
00:15:05
◼
►
really evolved on and sometimes changing
[TS]
00:15:09
◼
►
and changing again because that's what
[TS]
00:15:11
◼
►
we all do like as they're reacting to
[TS]
00:15:12
◼
►
the circumstances that
[TS]
00:15:14
◼
►
constantly changing around them and that
[TS]
00:15:18
◼
►
was powerful
[TS]
00:15:20
◼
►
it's even more than that i'd like to see
[TS]
00:15:21
◼
►
what you and Jason are saying and raise
[TS]
00:15:24
◼
►
it's not just about what's happening to
[TS]
00:15:25
◼
►
the characters but it's about the
[TS]
00:15:27
◼
►
choices that the characters make our
[TS]
00:15:30
◼
►
Londo in particular are in in in some
[TS]
00:15:32
◼
►
respects he is his story is possibly the
[TS]
00:15:36
◼
►
axis around which the whole the whole
[TS]
00:15:39
◼
►
series revolves but most of the
[TS]
00:15:41
◼
►
characters if not all of them something
[TS]
00:15:44
◼
►
happens and they react to it and they
[TS]
00:15:46
◼
►
make a decision and that's one of the
[TS]
00:15:48
◼
►
things that Stravinsky seem to talk up a
[TS]
00:15:52
◼
►
lot when he was speaking letting fancy
[TS]
00:15:55
◼
►
behind the curtain about what he was
[TS]
00:15:56
◼
►
trying to do is that these characters
[TS]
00:15:59
◼
►
these characters change as a result of
[TS]
00:16:01
◼
►
the decisions the good ones and the bad
[TS]
00:16:03
◼
►
ones that they make and most of the
[TS]
00:16:06
◼
►
characters are allowed to make some
[TS]
00:16:07
◼
►
pretty horrible decisions not breaking
[TS]
00:16:08
◼
►
bad level decision its but it's that
[TS]
00:16:11
◼
►
they they are allowed to make some
[TS]
00:16:13
◼
►
mistakes and after it clean up their
[TS]
00:16:15
◼
►
messes or be manipulated into making
[TS]
00:16:17
◼
►
decisions which happens quite a lot but
[TS]
00:16:20
◼
►
that's that's a signature for me for
[TS]
00:16:22
◼
►
four great storytelling where don't just
[TS]
00:16:25
◼
►
let a character walk away from something
[TS]
00:16:26
◼
►
they did because that's going to change
[TS]
00:16:28
◼
►
who that's going to change their
[TS]
00:16:29
◼
►
behavior is going to change the behavior
[TS]
00:16:31
◼
►
of people around them and it's not
[TS]
00:16:32
◼
►
exclusive to Babylon 5 I still I still
[TS]
00:16:34
◼
►
hold up the shield is probably the
[TS]
00:16:36
◼
►
single greatest continuous drama on
[TS]
00:16:40
◼
►
television and imagine the magical thing
[TS]
00:16:43
◼
►
about that show is that it's all about
[TS]
00:16:45
◼
►
the pilot episode it everything that
[TS]
00:16:47
◼
►
happens over seven seasons are
[TS]
00:16:49
◼
►
repercussions from the first what
[TS]
00:16:51
◼
►
happens in the first episode and Babylon
[TS]
00:16:54
◼
►
5 also plugs into that same mojo
[TS]
00:16:56
◼
►
yeah it's it's a I mean I don't want to
[TS]
00:16:59
◼
►
overstate it but because Babylon 5 was
[TS]
00:17:01
◼
►
not the first add a lot of this stuff
[TS]
00:17:03
◼
►
but it was one of the first and you know
[TS]
00:17:06
◼
►
how Joe Straczynski uh took this story
[TS]
00:17:09
◼
►
that was a back it was a pilot a TV
[TS]
00:17:11
◼
►
movie with no serious commitment on a
[TS]
00:17:14
◼
►
network that wasn't a network and yet
[TS]
00:17:17
◼
►
had the fortitude to say i'm going to
[TS]
00:17:18
◼
►
tell a five-year story and the fact that
[TS]
00:17:20
◼
►
he actually did get to tell five your
[TS]
00:17:22
◼
►
it's kind of amazing but he'll that was
[TS]
00:17:25
◼
►
there from the beginning on syndicated
[TS]
00:17:27
◼
►
television
[TS]
00:17:28
◼
►
no less right almost every episode every
[TS]
00:17:30
◼
►
I just meant everything in every just
[TS]
00:17:33
◼
►
about every episode was yeah totally
[TS]
00:17:35
◼
►
written by him in fact was some point
[TS]
00:17:37
◼
►
through the things that red was there
[TS]
00:17:39
◼
►
was a couple of episodes but there
[TS]
00:17:40
◼
►
appear to be ad-libs and someone asked
[TS]
00:17:43
◼
►
him you know like one of those Adam goes
[TS]
00:17:44
◼
►
there's no ad-libbing on my show every
[TS]
00:17:47
◼
►
word is as i wrote it was meant to be
[TS]
00:17:50
◼
►
there you know yeah we do not tolerate a
[TS]
00:17:53
◼
►
dilemma in the last three years I think
[TS]
00:17:54
◼
►
there was one episode he didn't write
[TS]
00:17:56
◼
►
which was the neil game in neil gaiman
[TS]
00:17:57
◼
►
episode in the fifth year before before
[TS]
00:18:00
◼
►
Neil Gaiman get started on as a doctor
[TS]
00:18:02
◼
►
who writer he guest-starred as a Babylon
[TS]
00:18:03
◼
►
5 writer in the fifth season is sort of
[TS]
00:18:05
◼
►
questionable economical or in my head
[TS]
00:18:10
◼
►
it's sort of like to watch something in
[TS]
00:18:11
◼
►
my mind it ended after four seasons is
[TS]
00:18:13
◼
►
there was there a word and fandom for
[TS]
00:18:15
◼
►
like the the times where there's an
[TS]
00:18:18
◼
►
episode or a whole season where we all
[TS]
00:18:20
◼
►
just decided well that was a dream
[TS]
00:18:21
◼
►
sequence that didn't actually happen if
[TS]
00:18:23
◼
►
there is no phantom in the entire world
[TS]
00:18:25
◼
►
where everybody agrees on anything it's
[TS]
00:18:27
◼
►
the Phantom at the Phantom Menace I
[TS]
00:18:29
◼
►
think we can all agree never took place
[TS]
00:18:31
◼
►
nope i like the Phantom minutes okay
[TS]
00:18:33
◼
►
there you go it's your personal cannon
[TS]
00:18:35
◼
►
that uh that that you know I like to
[TS]
00:18:37
◼
►
believe the buffy the vampire slayer
[TS]
00:18:38
◼
►
ended after five years and then she had
[TS]
00:18:42
◼
►
a dream and she was dying of being a
[TS]
00:18:44
◼
►
musical and then that was being but that
[TS]
00:18:46
◼
►
is not the case they did make seven
[TS]
00:18:48
◼
►
seasons government
[TS]
00:18:49
◼
►
this isn't about the opposite i wanted
[TS]
00:18:50
◼
►
to say I'm we should talk a while we're
[TS]
00:18:54
◼
►
still being general and not blowing
[TS]
00:18:55
◼
►
spoiler horn one of the notable things
[TS]
00:18:57
◼
►
about Babylon 5 is it was it was the
[TS]
00:18:59
◼
►
first I show to make a great use of CGI
[TS]
00:19:02
◼
►
which we now think of as sort of like
[TS]
00:19:05
◼
►
everything use CGI even all the non
[TS]
00:19:08
◼
►
sci-fi shows you CGI to do compositing
[TS]
00:19:10
◼
►
and things but Babylon 5 was the first
[TS]
00:19:13
◼
►
space show where the spaceships were all
[TS]
00:19:15
◼
►
or at least the first mainstream show
[TS]
00:19:18
◼
►
that with spaceships role models
[TS]
00:19:19
◼
►
everything is done in a computer at
[TS]
00:19:21
◼
►
their computer models the 3d models star
[TS]
00:19:23
◼
►
trek used the old school way of doing
[TS]
00:19:25
◼
►
this week it was it was a few years
[TS]
00:19:27
◼
►
after jurassic park but on a TV budget a
[TS]
00:19:29
◼
►
a very small looking at some of those
[TS]
00:19:31
◼
►
sets a small TV budget to do what they
[TS]
00:19:35
◼
►
did with their graphics and over the
[TS]
00:19:37
◼
►
course of time and kept getting better
[TS]
00:19:38
◼
►
when they started it was like a light
[TS]
00:19:40
◼
►
wave running
[TS]
00:19:41
◼
►
on anamika but by the time I remember I
[TS]
00:19:45
◼
►
remember seeing a scene and being blown
[TS]
00:19:48
◼
►
away by it and it actually is in no
[TS]
00:19:50
◼
►
surrender no retreat there's a scene
[TS]
00:19:52
◼
►
where Sharon standing at the at the
[TS]
00:19:54
◼
►
front of the bridge of a spaceship and
[TS]
00:19:56
◼
►
the and out the windows you can see the
[TS]
00:19:58
◼
►
space battle is going on in the camera
[TS]
00:20:00
◼
►
is not locked down and it's moving
[TS]
00:20:02
◼
►
around and panning and the space battle
[TS]
00:20:05
◼
►
moves with it and there's perspective
[TS]
00:20:07
◼
►
change and I remember seeing that gonna
[TS]
00:20:08
◼
►
know how no no how can that be
[TS]
00:20:11
◼
►
and because they did not commit that day
[TS]
00:20:13
◼
►
they didn't do that more guys with after
[TS]
00:20:17
◼
►
effects on max because i actually went
[TS]
00:20:19
◼
►
and saw them do this doing that frame by
[TS]
00:20:22
◼
►
frame and now you know that happens on
[TS]
00:20:24
◼
►
every TV show but back then that was
[TS]
00:20:26
◼
►
like the first time you saw stuff like
[TS]
00:20:28
◼
►
that on TV and so that's an interesting
[TS]
00:20:30
◼
►
thing about this show too is that some
[TS]
00:20:31
◼
►
of the cgi looks really dated now but I
[TS]
00:20:34
◼
►
mean by the time deep space nine got off
[TS]
00:20:36
◼
►
the air
[TS]
00:20:37
◼
►
Star Trek was using CGI for almost
[TS]
00:20:39
◼
►
everything that was the big debate you
[TS]
00:20:40
◼
►
know among the geeks you know models
[TS]
00:20:42
◼
►
first CD and now and look at the
[TS]
00:20:44
◼
►
episodes and you go you know modern CJ
[TS]
00:20:47
◼
►
you can go out that looks real now you
[TS]
00:20:49
◼
►
look at Babylon 5 no that's pretty good
[TS]
00:20:51
◼
►
CGI it's a video game looks like a video
[TS]
00:20:54
◼
►
right yeah it's it's not on par with you
[TS]
00:20:56
◼
►
know an iphone graphic he says yeah the
[TS]
00:20:59
◼
►
cgi was actually what kept me from
[TS]
00:21:01
◼
►
getting into the show for as long as I
[TS]
00:21:04
◼
►
sort of held out that the way I came to
[TS]
00:21:06
◼
►
Babylon 5 was summer in the second or
[TS]
00:21:09
◼
►
third season i think it was and we had
[TS]
00:21:12
◼
►
deep space nine night I was in college
[TS]
00:21:13
◼
►
and I would go to my our my friends Mac
[TS]
00:21:15
◼
►
suggest dorm room and we would watch
[TS]
00:21:17
◼
►
deep space nine every Sunday think of
[TS]
00:21:19
◼
►
sunday and there was this other show on
[TS]
00:21:21
◼
►
before it called Babylon 5 and we would
[TS]
00:21:23
◼
►
always catch the end of it the last
[TS]
00:21:24
◼
►
people you know they put back-to-back
[TS]
00:21:26
◼
►
shade and although we cannot guarantee
[TS]
00:21:30
◼
►
program so many we catch a little bit
[TS]
00:21:32
◼
►
and we will be like what is this
[TS]
00:21:33
◼
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ridiculous show look at those stupid
[TS]
00:21:35
◼
►
looking ships that we made fun of it and
[TS]
00:21:38
◼
►
then as time went on i would get there
[TS]
00:21:40
◼
►
earlier and earlier and we would catch
[TS]
00:21:41
◼
►
more of this other show and suddenly
[TS]
00:21:44
◼
►
realize like actually this just really
[TS]
00:21:46
◼
►
good and then after a few more weeks of
[TS]
00:21:49
◼
►
that deep space nine night became
[TS]
00:21:50
◼
►
Babylon 5 night and we stopped watching
[TS]
00:21:53
◼
►
kid you not that that was that was that
[TS]
00:21:59
◼
►
was another reason why was Babylon 5 was
[TS]
00:22:02
◼
►
so much more exciting than any star trek
[TS]
00:22:04
◼
►
series because only in retrospect after
[TS]
00:22:06
◼
►
seeing a couple seasons about 15 did you
[TS]
00:22:08
◼
►
realize that like I think the reason why
[TS]
00:22:10
◼
►
i like the enterprise and Starfleet were
[TS]
00:22:12
◼
►
so big on like we we must say you click
[TS]
00:22:15
◼
►
on high commander we must settle this
[TS]
00:22:18
◼
►
dramatically because we cannot afford to
[TS]
00:22:20
◼
►
animate separates battled just keep your
[TS]
00:22:23
◼
►
ship exactly where it is don't move and
[TS]
00:22:26
◼
►
just keeping the viewscreen whereas this
[TS]
00:22:28
◼
►
Babylon 5 you can actually have well
[TS]
00:22:30
◼
►
let's see there are multiple alien races
[TS]
00:22:32
◼
►
i bet each one of them would have a
[TS]
00:22:33
◼
►
different style ship and Babylon 5 like
[TS]
00:22:36
◼
►
the first one that made me realize you
[TS]
00:22:37
◼
►
can't wait a minute how come we never
[TS]
00:22:39
◼
►
seen since the hum Starfleet doesn't
[TS]
00:22:41
◼
►
have a fighter ships anything with you
[TS]
00:22:44
◼
►
never send it like it's like you never
[TS]
00:22:45
◼
►
have like one of those dogfights like we
[TS]
00:22:47
◼
►
enjoyed in Star Wars and every every
[TS]
00:22:49
◼
►
series before that not only that but its
[TS]
00:22:52
◼
►
star flee all ships I had to fly on a
[TS]
00:22:55
◼
►
single right you know that that you yet
[TS]
00:22:59
◼
►
you have starch you have star ships
[TS]
00:23:01
◼
►
approaching each other they're the same
[TS]
00:23:03
◼
►
angle and all the other stuff meanwhile
[TS]
00:23:04
◼
►
Babylon 5 you have ships that are
[TS]
00:23:07
◼
►
actually respecting the laws of physics
[TS]
00:23:09
◼
►
the star Furies that were introduced in
[TS]
00:23:11
◼
►
that first episode midnight on the
[TS]
00:23:13
◼
►
firing line
[TS]
00:23:14
◼
►
yeah the animations a little primitive
[TS]
00:23:15
◼
►
by today's standards but you see them
[TS]
00:23:17
◼
►
flipping around and flying backwards
[TS]
00:23:20
◼
►
using their own inertia to take out
[TS]
00:23:22
◼
►
other ships and things like that it's it
[TS]
00:23:24
◼
►
and I don't wanna I don't want to turn
[TS]
00:23:27
◼
►
this into a star trek vs Babylon 5
[TS]
00:23:28
◼
►
things because i am i'm a big star trek
[TS]
00:23:30
◼
►
fan and I grew up on the original series
[TS]
00:23:33
◼
►
i love the next generation and I like
[TS]
00:23:34
◼
►
deep space 9
[TS]
00:23:35
◼
►
i I don't I think there's a the fans
[TS]
00:23:38
◼
►
like to fight about things you know
[TS]
00:23:39
◼
►
words but yeah very big shock also known
[TS]
00:23:42
◼
►
as having opinions Jason can't we all
[TS]
00:23:44
◼
►
just get along
[TS]
00:23:46
◼
►
there are just so different yeah they're
[TS]
00:23:48
◼
►
just so different shows you can't really
[TS]
00:23:49
◼
►
compare and that was my point exactly
[TS]
00:23:51
◼
►
which is what i like what i loved about
[TS]
00:23:53
◼
►
Babylon 5 was all the ways that it
[TS]
00:23:55
◼
►
wasn't like Star Trek and that doesn't
[TS]
00:23:56
◼
►
mean that I didn't like Star Trek but I
[TS]
00:23:58
◼
►
what I like about Babylon 5 is it it
[TS]
00:24:00
◼
►
pushed a lot of buttons that Star Trek
[TS]
00:24:01
◼
►
didn't things that I remember from
[TS]
00:24:03
◼
►
reading lots of sci-fi novels as a kid
[TS]
00:24:06
◼
►
as a teenager that
[TS]
00:24:07
◼
►
weren't things I saw in Star Trek
[TS]
00:24:08
◼
►
because Star Trek was the way that it
[TS]
00:24:10
◼
►
had been set up in the sixties by Gene
[TS]
00:24:12
◼
►
Roddenberry was gonna be that in Babylon
[TS]
00:24:15
◼
►
I think purposefully because joseph
[TS]
00:24:17
◼
►
kosinski also a giant star trek fan was
[TS]
00:24:19
◼
►
trying to do stuff that Star Trek
[TS]
00:24:21
◼
►
couldn't he knew he was gonna be you
[TS]
00:24:23
◼
►
know an alternative to star trek he
[TS]
00:24:26
◼
►
didn't want to be star trek and he he
[TS]
00:24:27
◼
►
got tired of getting compared to and I
[TS]
00:24:29
◼
►
think so I you can like you can like
[TS]
00:24:31
◼
►
them both but the reason I like b5 has a
[TS]
00:24:33
◼
►
lot more to do with all the ways that
[TS]
00:24:35
◼
►
it's not Star Trek rather than it being
[TS]
00:24:37
◼
►
like which one is the better Star Trek
[TS]
00:24:39
◼
►
Deep Space nine or Babylon 5 because
[TS]
00:24:40
◼
►
it's a completely false comparison time
[TS]
00:24:43
◼
►
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days like 2007 when the iphone came out
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00:25:17
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00:25:19
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00:25:21
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know spend all your time doing internal
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00:25:23
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bug hunts he cross your fingers hope for
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00:25:25
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monitoring social media and the app
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00:26:20
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so that I was actually watching it was
[TS]
00:26:22
◼
►
actually and a Babylon 5 that was
[TS]
00:26:24
◼
►
watching that ended just as you are
[TS]
00:26:25
◼
►
starting guess we're starting the show
[TS]
00:26:27
◼
►
was intersections in real-time and i
[TS]
00:26:31
◼
►
would note no snow spoilers of that this
[TS]
00:26:33
◼
►
isn't a spoil everything but both both
[TS]
00:26:36
◼
►
Babylon 5 and and Star Trek next
[TS]
00:26:39
◼
►
generation had the episode in which a
[TS]
00:26:41
◼
►
high-profile character is interrogated
[TS]
00:26:43
◼
►
for the entire yes and I think that the
[TS]
00:26:46
◼
►
reason that it i think that that that
[TS]
00:26:48
◼
►
episode of Babylon 5 really in caps
[TS]
00:26:50
◼
►
encapsulate why i happen to prefer
[TS]
00:26:52
◼
►
Babylon 5 because you know if the the
[TS]
00:26:55
◼
►
one with the one with the weekend we can
[TS]
00:26:56
◼
►
spoil the next generation this is not
[TS]
00:26:58
◼
►
the next generation project
[TS]
00:27:00
◼
►
exactly screw the likes o the in the
[TS]
00:27:04
◼
►
cards being interrogated and the
[TS]
00:27:06
◼
►
inquisitors like well you know I'm sorry
[TS]
00:27:08
◼
►
to have to interrogate you like this you
[TS]
00:27:10
◼
►
know that I was raised a scientist you
[TS]
00:27:11
◼
►
know I was a small boy who chased frogs
[TS]
00:27:14
◼
►
and glum before and I have my I had a
[TS]
00:27:16
◼
►
teacher named mr. like that just like
[TS]
00:27:18
◼
►
the interrogators opening up to him and
[TS]
00:27:20
◼
►
talking all this stuff and the entire
[TS]
00:27:22
◼
►
episode is about how pacar gets over
[TS]
00:27:25
◼
►
gets it over on him and puts the
[TS]
00:27:26
◼
►
Inquisitor in his place and gets rescued
[TS]
00:27:28
◼
►
and says defiantly there are fault
[TS]
00:27:31
◼
►
lights or whatever it is he says through
[TS]
00:27:32
◼
►
those parts and got rest with Babylon 5
[TS]
00:27:36
◼
►
it's like no you don't understand he
[TS]
00:27:38
◼
►
this characters being interrogated by an
[TS]
00:27:40
◼
►
experienced interrogator in a facility
[TS]
00:27:42
◼
►
where they do nothing but interrogate
[TS]
00:27:44
◼
►
enemies all day long if the if if this
[TS]
00:27:47
◼
►
characters they there's nothing about
[TS]
00:27:50
◼
►
this situation that they don't control
[TS]
00:27:52
◼
►
this character is completely screwed and
[TS]
00:27:55
◼
►
anytime that they that he's happy it's
[TS]
00:27:57
◼
►
only because they have manipulated
[TS]
00:27:58
◼
►
things to make him feel happy and by the
[TS]
00:28:00
◼
►
end of the episode maybe you're gonna
[TS]
00:28:02
◼
►
find out that this is the it's like that
[TS]
00:28:05
◼
►
this is the point which I'm like sort of
[TS]
00:28:06
◼
►
standing up and applauding because I i
[TS]
00:28:09
◼
►
didn't i didn't dislike the next
[TS]
00:28:11
◼
►
generation but again if what the times
[TS]
00:28:14
◼
►
when that that series disappointed me
[TS]
00:28:16
◼
►
was when it seemed as though there was a
[TS]
00:28:18
◼
►
storyline that said well this obviously
[TS]
00:28:20
◼
►
has to end this way because this there's
[TS]
00:28:23
◼
►
absolutely no way in hell that this the
[TS]
00:28:24
◼
►
storyline is going to end with a person
[TS]
00:28:26
◼
►
who grew up in a hundred thousand year
[TS]
00:28:28
◼
►
old civilization where they euthanize
[TS]
00:28:30
◼
►
everybody 865 is suddenly going to
[TS]
00:28:32
◼
►
decide that that's all bs
[TS]
00:28:34
◼
►
that's not gonna work that's not gonna
[TS]
00:28:35
◼
►
happen oh wait that's exactly what
[TS]
00:28:37
◼
►
happened ok again I don't know for sure
[TS]
00:28:40
◼
►
getting into spoiler territory or but
[TS]
00:28:41
◼
►
even the changes between who's running
[TS]
00:28:44
◼
►
that modified between the first season
[TS]
00:28:46
◼
►
in the second season second season
[TS]
00:28:48
◼
►
started like the healthy but what the
[TS]
00:28:51
◼
►
hell's going on here because there was
[TS]
00:28:54
◼
►
no explanation given whatsoever we
[TS]
00:28:56
◼
►
didn't come to understand the reasoning
[TS]
00:28:58
◼
►
why things happened until much later on
[TS]
00:29:01
◼
►
and of course you know being a cynical
[TS]
00:29:03
◼
►
person figured I can a lot of so unless
[TS]
00:29:05
◼
►
they had a contract dispute or something
[TS]
00:29:06
◼
►
like that
[TS]
00:29:07
◼
►
the others they're just going to pretend
[TS]
00:29:09
◼
►
that there are you know to Darrin's on
[TS]
00:29:11
◼
►
bewitched you mentioned you mentioned
[TS]
00:29:13
◼
►
lost earlier and I mean this is one of
[TS]
00:29:14
◼
►
the facts of any long-running TV shows
[TS]
00:29:16
◼
►
you're gonna have casting problems that
[TS]
00:29:17
◼
►
are not story problems and you know la
[TS]
00:29:19
◼
►
lost probably have some story problems
[TS]
00:29:21
◼
►
too i love i love lost I you know it's
[TS]
00:29:24
◼
►
it's that's just my cross to bear but
[TS]
00:29:26
◼
►
the fact is they uh they also have
[TS]
00:29:29
◼
►
casting problems
[TS]
00:29:31
◼
►
mankind is born into trouble surely a
[TS]
00:29:33
◼
►
sparks fly upward and some people have
[TS]
00:29:34
◼
►
to have to buy the DVD some people have
[TS]
00:29:36
◼
►
to buy the blu rays of loss tonight i do
[TS]
00:29:38
◼
►
have them but you know that my point is
[TS]
00:29:41
◼
►
a casting is also a problem and so in
[TS]
00:29:44
◼
►
Babylon 5 you did have actors who had to
[TS]
00:29:46
◼
►
leave and they had to get you know I
[TS]
00:29:48
◼
►
think since go is called the trop
[TS]
00:29:50
◼
►
trapdoors he had trapdoors there that he
[TS]
00:29:52
◼
►
could he could pull if he needed to and
[TS]
00:29:55
◼
►
one of them was Michael hair had to
[TS]
00:29:58
◼
►
leave after the first season I think
[TS]
00:29:59
◼
►
that it's come out in in recent years
[TS]
00:30:02
◼
►
that he was struggling with mental
[TS]
00:30:03
◼
►
illness and they kept it quiet but he
[TS]
00:30:07
◼
►
and he got through that season but he
[TS]
00:30:10
◼
►
needed to not be on the show anymore and
[TS]
00:30:12
◼
►
then you also the examples like Oh Talia
[TS]
00:30:15
◼
►
winters that actress wanted out and so
[TS]
00:30:19
◼
►
they wrote her out and claudia christian
[TS]
00:30:22
◼
►
county and claudia christian had a
[TS]
00:30:25
◼
►
contract negotiation problem and you
[TS]
00:30:27
◼
►
know that it happened as they went and
[TS]
00:30:30
◼
►
and some of that stuff just happens on
[TS]
00:30:31
◼
►
TV that's just that's just how it is and
[TS]
00:30:33
◼
►
and you know audiences get sad about it
[TS]
00:30:37
◼
►
I i was gonna let's fire off the spoiler
[TS]
00:30:39
◼
►
how about that we set a lot of things
[TS]
00:30:41
◼
►
unless you guys how are you you before
[TS]
00:30:43
◼
►
we do that you want to talk a little bit
[TS]
00:30:44
◼
►
more about you know reasons that you
[TS]
00:30:46
◼
►
like the show or do you think we should
[TS]
00:30:48
◼
►
spoiler territory right I'd be kind of
[TS]
00:30:50
◼
►
interested in talking about
[TS]
00:30:52
◼
►
oh and i hate to bring this up because
[TS]
00:30:53
◼
►
this is the age old doctor who question
[TS]
00:30:54
◼
►
but if people are interested in it where
[TS]
00:30:57
◼
►
to start because i know many people are
[TS]
00:30:59
◼
►
not super fun of the first season and I
[TS]
00:31:01
◼
►
I am NOT one of those people i thought i
[TS]
00:31:03
◼
►
was a couple years ago I was like oh
[TS]
00:31:05
◼
►
yeah for season was crap but when I went
[TS]
00:31:06
◼
►
back and rewatch the whole thing this
[TS]
00:31:08
◼
►
time I i found myself going oh wait i
[TS]
00:31:10
◼
►
liked this episode we have this one is
[TS]
00:31:12
◼
►
really good too so i'm actually now a
[TS]
00:31:14
◼
►
staunch defender of the first season but
[TS]
00:31:16
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i think a lot of that may come from the
[TS]
00:31:18
◼
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fact that i watched the rest of it so i
[TS]
00:31:20
◼
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can see kind of where it's going and I'm
[TS]
00:31:23
◼
►
just wondering like I said I jumped in
[TS]
00:31:25
◼
►
the first time around in the second or
[TS]
00:31:27
◼
►
third season and i'm wondering if you
[TS]
00:31:28
◼
►
guys think if if people are interested
[TS]
00:31:30
◼
►
in the show should they start at the
[TS]
00:31:32
◼
►
beginning and just power through or
[TS]
00:31:34
◼
►
maybe check out in the middle haha I i
[TS]
00:31:37
◼
►
would recommend that the TNT TV movie
[TS]
00:31:42
◼
►
Babylon 5 in the beginning as a starting
[TS]
00:31:44
◼
►
point really on but it's a real career
[TS]
00:31:46
◼
►
yeah well the end well
[TS]
00:31:49
◼
►
well it it's bought it it spoils the end
[TS]
00:31:52
◼
►
and one key point about see about a one
[TS]
00:31:56
◼
►
key mystery in series one on the other
[TS]
00:31:59
◼
►
hand if you're trying to get somebody
[TS]
00:32:00
◼
►
into the show this with this would be
[TS]
00:32:03
◼
►
when it premiered on the TNT network i
[TS]
00:32:06
◼
►
had a room full of people that I invited
[TS]
00:32:09
◼
►
over for Babylon 5 party who had never
[TS]
00:32:11
◼
►
seen the show and they they were in
[TS]
00:32:15
◼
►
rapture it was it went over it went over
[TS]
00:32:18
◼
►
better than I that I could have thought
[TS]
00:32:20
◼
►
those brand you and and when you and
[TS]
00:32:24
◼
►
when you watch in the beginning and then
[TS]
00:32:27
◼
►
go into the first season although some
[TS]
00:32:30
◼
►
of the spoilers are kick over then some
[TS]
00:32:33
◼
►
of the other the resistance that comes
[TS]
00:32:35
◼
►
up when you watch this uneven first
[TS]
00:32:37
◼
►
season where they're so we're sort of
[TS]
00:32:38
◼
►
finding their way you see enough of the
[TS]
00:32:41
◼
►
context in these other other episodes so
[TS]
00:32:44
◼
►
that would be my vote you have mine
[TS]
00:32:46
◼
►
wants to be my vote would be power
[TS]
00:32:48
◼
►
through it because there's so much that
[TS]
00:32:50
◼
►
happens in that first season that you're
[TS]
00:32:52
◼
►
right it's like its agreement tom clancy
[TS]
00:32:54
◼
►
book you get 300 pages into it before
[TS]
00:32:56
◼
►
you know the count
[TS]
00:32:57
◼
►
bizarre but the book doesn't make any
[TS]
00:32:59
◼
►
sense without it and then you're missing
[TS]
00:33:01
◼
►
quite a lot because there's so much for
[TS]
00:33:04
◼
►
shadowing at first season that's the
[TS]
00:33:05
◼
►
problem foreshadowing it can be a little
[TS]
00:33:08
◼
►
bit boring at times until you get into
[TS]
00:33:10
◼
►
it that you know i would tell people
[TS]
00:33:12
◼
►
you're going to commit power through
[TS]
00:33:13
◼
►
watch start with the pilot suffer
[TS]
00:33:17
◼
►
through it because it isn't as good as
[TS]
00:33:19
◼
►
their ass yeah but you should still you
[TS]
00:33:21
◼
►
should you should still suffer through
[TS]
00:33:23
◼
►
it just to get a sense of the show we
[TS]
00:33:25
◼
►
can say suffer quite so much revenue
[TS]
00:33:27
◼
►
interested and actually and which pilot
[TS]
00:33:31
◼
►
are you talking about because there are
[TS]
00:33:32
◼
►
two versions of it you know whatever one
[TS]
00:33:35
◼
►
you can get the one with you yeah the
[TS]
00:33:36
◼
►
one with the stewart copeland soundtrack
[TS]
00:33:38
◼
►
or the one that was really scored yeah
[TS]
00:33:39
◼
►
what happened was the the pilot the
[TS]
00:33:42
◼
►
pilot is called the gathering and you
[TS]
00:33:44
◼
►
can get it in on non DVD if you give you
[TS]
00:33:47
◼
►
if you go for the DVD sets the one that
[TS]
00:33:50
◼
►
you will get is the one that was reacted
[TS]
00:33:52
◼
►
for tnt and aired and the it's been
[TS]
00:33:57
◼
►
rescored it's been re-edited tightened
[TS]
00:33:59
◼
►
up there's more stuff to it on balance
[TS]
00:34:02
◼
►
and I think it's much
[TS]
00:34:03
◼
►
yeah i think i like it i didn't make it
[TS]
00:34:06
◼
►
i thought i founded cringe-worthy yeah I
[TS]
00:34:09
◼
►
didn't I didn't I didn't love it and but
[TS]
00:34:11
◼
►
it's hard to not it's hard to not have
[TS]
00:34:14
◼
►
it but uh the the version the version on
[TS]
00:34:17
◼
►
itunes I don't know about the other
[TS]
00:34:18
◼
►
digital services but the version itunes
[TS]
00:34:20
◼
►
is the original letter with the stewart
[TS]
00:34:21
◼
►
copeland soundtrack and other stuff and
[TS]
00:34:24
◼
►
I I don't like it as much as you like
[TS]
00:34:25
◼
►
your Babylon 5 sounding like an episode
[TS]
00:34:27
◼
►
of the equalizer that is a version that
[TS]
00:34:30
◼
►
is the version for I think you gotta
[TS]
00:34:32
◼
►
watch season one and and i'm going to
[TS]
00:34:33
◼
►
say you could probably somebody could
[TS]
00:34:35
◼
►
probably construct a a a viewing guide
[TS]
00:34:38
◼
►
that included half the episodes of
[TS]
00:34:40
◼
►
season one and probably you could get
[TS]
00:34:42
◼
►
the flavor for it or you can just power
[TS]
00:34:44
◼
►
through it I i think the reasons the big
[TS]
00:34:46
◼
►
reasons you you can't do it i mean the
[TS]
00:34:48
◼
►
number one reason is Sinclair I he is
[TS]
00:34:51
◼
►
that is a that is a character that grows
[TS]
00:34:54
◼
►
on you and by the end of the season
[TS]
00:34:55
◼
►
that's the real shame of him of him
[TS]
00:34:57
◼
►
leaving the show which he does sorry
[TS]
00:34:59
◼
►
little spoiler there but I mean it's a
[TS]
00:35:02
◼
►
minor honestly in the grand scheme of
[TS]
00:35:04
◼
►
things he leaves that he leaves the show
[TS]
00:35:06
◼
►
as a regular after the first season he
[TS]
00:35:08
◼
►
grows on you and ends up being he's not
[TS]
00:35:11
◼
►
not the at the star trek captain that
[TS]
00:35:14
◼
►
you're sort of expecting and he is this
[TS]
00:35:15
◼
►
very different kind of guy and he ends
[TS]
00:35:17
◼
►
up being really kind of endearing and
[TS]
00:35:19
◼
►
interesting also Michael O'Hare's
[TS]
00:35:22
◼
►
performance is not what you expect from
[TS]
00:35:24
◼
►
your leading man and that takes some
[TS]
00:35:26
◼
►
getting used to but in the end you know
[TS]
00:35:28
◼
►
I think you need to have that experience
[TS]
00:35:30
◼
►
with Sinclair and you need to see where
[TS]
00:35:31
◼
►
things get set up with him and his
[TS]
00:35:33
◼
►
relationship with the land so that when
[TS]
00:35:35
◼
►
bruce boxleitner comes in as Sheridan
[TS]
00:35:37
◼
►
which I would argue is the moment where
[TS]
00:35:40
◼
►
the show clinched it was gonna be around
[TS]
00:35:42
◼
►
that they gotta somebody people knew and
[TS]
00:35:45
◼
►
a really good I I think good actor with
[TS]
00:35:48
◼
►
a good character and I think that was
[TS]
00:35:50
◼
►
the moment where for me the show caught
[TS]
00:35:52
◼
►
fire is when bruce boxleitner walked on
[TS]
00:35:54
◼
►
the on the on the set and I was like oh
[TS]
00:35:56
◼
►
this guy i know this guy he's got you
[TS]
00:35:59
◼
►
know he's got command but you can't you
[TS]
00:36:00
◼
►
gotta have that Sinclair stuff and you
[TS]
00:36:02
◼
►
gotta have his relationship with
[TS]
00:36:03
◼
►
Garibaldi and you've got to have the
[TS]
00:36:05
◼
►
Babylon squared episode before you see
[TS]
00:36:08
◼
►
simply or before you see share it and so
[TS]
00:36:10
◼
►
I think you got you gotta watch season
[TS]
00:36:11
◼
►
one and he's so different than Sharon
[TS]
00:36:14
◼
►
did get the contrast is why didn't I
[TS]
00:36:17
◼
►
cast someone and say let's make you know
[TS]
00:36:20
◼
►
shared just added the Sinclair mode you
[TS]
00:36:23
◼
►
know now is playing the part of Jeffrey
[TS]
00:36:25
◼
►
Sinclair I i also agree that power
[TS]
00:36:29
◼
►
through season one with where we're
[TS]
00:36:31
◼
►
making fun of it because we're fans
[TS]
00:36:33
◼
►
it really isn't as bad as we're jokingly
[TS]
00:36:35
◼
►
making it out to be
[TS]
00:36:36
◼
►
it's just that this is a huge this is a
[TS]
00:36:38
◼
►
cruise ship lose leaving the terminal
[TS]
00:36:40
◼
►
that is not going to show its full power
[TS]
00:36:43
◼
►
until its left port that's the and
[TS]
00:36:45
◼
►
that's what you have to deal with the
[TS]
00:36:47
◼
►
springtime those strings the our
[TS]
00:36:48
◼
►
campuses and there's a lot fewer arc
[TS]
00:36:50
◼
►
episodes in season one because right you
[TS]
00:36:52
◼
►
got to get everybody used to it and yet
[TS]
00:36:55
◼
►
you know they they haven't figured out
[TS]
00:36:56
◼
►
how to shoot it they hadn't figured out
[TS]
00:36:57
◼
►
how to direct the cgi is still kind of a
[TS]
00:36:59
◼
►
work-in-progress everything is like
[TS]
00:37:01
◼
►
powering up in season one which is not
[TS]
00:37:03
◼
►
to say that it's terrible but everything
[TS]
00:37:05
◼
►
is not where it's going to be by the
[TS]
00:37:07
◼
►
season two and reach and bring up and
[TS]
00:37:09
◼
►
bring currently if you bring up a really
[TS]
00:37:12
◼
►
great point in that there are arc that
[TS]
00:37:15
◼
►
they're there arc and their non arc
[TS]
00:37:16
◼
►
episodes and some of them are what was
[TS]
00:37:18
◼
►
the term that the Germans used to say
[TS]
00:37:20
◼
►
that there is like the sledgehammer
[TS]
00:37:22
◼
►
episodes where this is one of the but
[TS]
00:37:24
◼
►
yeah basically
[TS]
00:37:25
◼
►
amazon episode right so you can probably
[TS]
00:37:27
◼
►
come up with a list of non arc episodes
[TS]
00:37:30
◼
►
like intersections in real time as I was
[TS]
00:37:32
◼
►
watching it was i was struck by the fact
[TS]
00:37:34
◼
►
that if you would never see if you if if
[TS]
00:37:37
◼
►
if there were no syndication of the show
[TS]
00:37:41
◼
►
whatsoever no dvds they could sell this
[TS]
00:37:44
◼
►
just as an episode of an anthology
[TS]
00:37:45
◼
►
series because all you need it doesn't
[TS]
00:37:48
◼
►
connect to anything or any stories
[TS]
00:37:49
◼
►
outside in a profound way if all you
[TS]
00:37:52
◼
►
know you get from the first five minutes
[TS]
00:37:54
◼
►
the episode that there is somebody who
[TS]
00:37:56
◼
►
is in some sort of large military
[TS]
00:37:58
◼
►
organization the government that owns
[TS]
00:38:00
◼
►
that military organization seems to
[TS]
00:38:02
◼
►
think that he has been affected and now
[TS]
00:38:05
◼
►
he's being interrogated that's really
[TS]
00:38:06
◼
►
all you need
[TS]
00:38:07
◼
►
I was also thinking of a another one of
[TS]
00:38:09
◼
►
my favorite favorite episodes passing
[TS]
00:38:12
◼
►
through the ceremony which is an episode
[TS]
00:38:14
◼
►
on that one
[TS]
00:38:15
◼
►
you also get such a gutsy episode
[TS]
00:38:18
◼
►
because it would it's introduces a new
[TS]
00:38:19
◼
►
character so you don't have to know my
[TS]
00:38:21
◼
►
love back story but powerful dramatic
[TS]
00:38:24
◼
►
moment with serious consequences that
[TS]
00:38:27
◼
►
are dealt with within the episode and it
[TS]
00:38:29
◼
►
also shows you it's it's it's a good
[TS]
00:38:31
◼
►
calling card because i don't know if a
[TS]
00:38:34
◼
►
lot of these series would have had the
[TS]
00:38:36
◼
►
guts to be explicit about the religion
[TS]
00:38:39
◼
►
of future the future world that were no
[TS]
00:38:42
◼
►
we're not going to say that well of
[TS]
00:38:43
◼
►
course we know it all the times we pray
[TS]
00:38:46
◼
►
to pagan gods but of course now we
[TS]
00:38:48
◼
►
understand that there's science behind
[TS]
00:38:49
◼
►
all of this
[TS]
00:38:50
◼
►
no there are monks then there are
[TS]
00:38:52
◼
►
religious orders and there are people
[TS]
00:38:53
◼
►
who celebrate Hanukkah and the light
[TS]
00:38:55
◼
►
menorahs and the end them and the monks
[TS]
00:38:57
◼
►
are actually very intelligent sharp
[TS]
00:38:59
◼
►
people who have who are very very adept
[TS]
00:39:01
◼
►
there they're like Jesuits really
[TS]
00:39:02
◼
►
because they're willing to say there's
[TS]
00:39:04
◼
►
absolutely there's absolutely no
[TS]
00:39:05
◼
►
conflict between the fact that there are
[TS]
00:39:07
◼
►
a million different races as a matter of
[TS]
00:39:09
◼
►
fact that gives us the impetus to find
[TS]
00:39:11
◼
►
out why how they see their God and how
[TS]
00:39:14
◼
►
does it compare to how we see our God
[TS]
00:39:15
◼
►
and I wanted it I wanted to mention in
[TS]
00:39:18
◼
►
Parliament dreams is an episode where we
[TS]
00:39:19
◼
►
see lots of aliens and we see lots of
[TS]
00:39:21
◼
►
religious beliefs and what one of the
[TS]
00:39:22
◼
►
things and it won an Emmy actually for
[TS]
00:39:24
◼
►
makeup but it also won joseph kosinski
[TS]
00:39:27
◼
►
an award for covering religious themes
[TS]
00:39:31
◼
►
and television which is fascinating
[TS]
00:39:33
◼
►
because he is a he has a religious
[TS]
00:39:36
◼
►
background but is an atheist and yet
[TS]
00:39:38
◼
►
didn't shy away from saying you don't go
[TS]
00:39:40
◼
►
out in space you know all the stuff that
[TS]
00:39:42
◼
►
we have with us here it's going to come
[TS]
00:39:43
◼
►
with us and it's not going to disappear
[TS]
00:39:45
◼
►
it's still going to be there and maybe
[TS]
00:39:47
◼
►
if we meet aliens they're gonna have
[TS]
00:39:49
◼
►
some of their own beliefs and wouldn't
[TS]
00:39:51
◼
►
be interesting to talk about that mets
[TS]
00:39:53
◼
►
and he did and and that's another thing
[TS]
00:39:56
◼
►
that I think you don't see inside I TV a
[TS]
00:39:58
◼
►
lot I and you're right about the
[TS]
00:40:02
◼
►
standalone episodes i could I can hand
[TS]
00:40:03
◼
►
the wheat with the way I'm episodes are
[TS]
00:40:05
◼
►
great and then why I just was scrolling
[TS]
00:40:08
◼
►
through the lurkers guide to Babylon 5
[TS]
00:40:10
◼
►
which is was the very early and
[TS]
00:40:13
◼
►
definitive TV resource largely authored
[TS]
00:40:17
◼
►
by whom CEO Stephen Grimm is that is the
[TS]
00:40:21
◼
►
fellows name uh and I i met there is
[TS]
00:40:24
◼
►
another name that i saw on that sigh i
[TS]
00:40:26
◼
►
bring up over my name appears on about
[TS]
00:40:28
◼
►
four four episodes because I was willing
[TS]
00:40:30
◼
►
to read the spoilers from the episode
[TS]
00:40:32
◼
►
that aired in the UK before they aired
[TS]
00:40:34
◼
►
in the US and edit those pages for
[TS]
00:40:35
◼
►
Stephen because he didn't want to be
[TS]
00:40:36
◼
►
spoiled and when somebody very nice in
[TS]
00:40:38
◼
►
the UK sent Stephen those episodes on a
[TS]
00:40:40
◼
►
VHS tape he invited me to come down and
[TS]
00:40:43
◼
►
see the thing I'd already been spoiled
[TS]
00:40:44
◼
►
on so I got to watch it watch four
[TS]
00:40:47
◼
►
episodes of Babylon 5 with the guy who
[TS]
00:40:49
◼
►
delivers got which was pretty cool
[TS]
00:40:50
◼
►
I'm not the lurkers guys still up it's
[TS]
00:40:53
◼
►
amazingly enough it is still at
[TS]
00:40:55
◼
►
midwinter dot-com / lurk even now you
[TS]
00:40:57
◼
►
can if you kids want to see what the
[TS]
00:40:59
◼
►
internet look like a 1999 yeah that is
[TS]
00:41:03
◼
►
which interrogation bar is only like one
[TS]
00:41:06
◼
►
quarter of the size of your screen
[TS]
00:41:07
◼
►
yeah yeah it was formatted for vga those
[TS]
00:41:10
◼
►
were the days
[TS]
00:41:11
◼
►
what if you go to the front page you'll
[TS]
00:41:12
◼
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see that he's put it all up on github
[TS]
00:41:14
◼
►
now you know kids you don't really you
[TS]
00:41:16
◼
►
don't necessarily have to have the real
[TS]
00:41:18
◼
►
real player plugin now I'm not because
[TS]
00:41:21
◼
►
you you because my modem can't handle
[TS]
00:41:23
◼
►
that kind of data but anyway there are a
[TS]
00:41:25
◼
►
lot of great there a lot of great
[TS]
00:41:26
◼
►
standalone episodes up there are you
[TS]
00:41:29
◼
►
know quality of Mercy with June Lockhart
[TS]
00:41:30
◼
►
as the woman whose mysteriously healing
[TS]
00:41:33
◼
►
people in the down below and and even
[TS]
00:41:36
◼
►
those episodes it someway or another got
[TS]
00:41:38
◼
►
worked into your understanding upset you
[TS]
00:41:40
◼
►
didn't have to see the rest of them they
[TS]
00:41:41
◼
►
were ok but one way or another he found
[TS]
00:41:45
◼
►
ways of working all the standalone up
[TS]
00:41:46
◼
►
so it's for the most part it's it's some
[TS]
00:41:49
◼
►
level into the things came back its true
[TS]
00:41:51
◼
►
like that like that episode is a great
[TS]
00:41:53
◼
►
example to young the jewel of the
[TS]
00:41:54
◼
►
healing she would come to action right i
[TS]
00:41:57
◼
►
mean yeah I mean we thought that was
[TS]
00:41:58
◼
►
totally done with and surprisingly
[TS]
00:42:01
◼
►
enough it you know he kept it around as
[TS]
00:42:03
◼
►
just time I need that it for a rainy day
[TS]
00:42:05
◼
►
and he and he used it
[TS]
00:42:08
◼
►
ok let's fire off the spoiler form
[TS]
00:42:14
◼
►
alright where were able to sew
[TS]
00:42:17
◼
►
Sinclair's valen make no it doesn't get
[TS]
00:42:21
◼
►
that out doesn't it
[TS]
00:42:22
◼
►
ok oh I feel so much better now it's
[TS]
00:42:28
◼
►
funny actually I wanted to mention
[TS]
00:42:29
◼
►
before before we talk a little bit more
[TS]
00:42:31
◼
►
about the story arc we were talking
[TS]
00:42:32
◼
►
about standalone episodes and maybe we
[TS]
00:42:35
◼
►
could we could talk about favorite
[TS]
00:42:36
◼
►
episodes briefly and i'm going to say we
[TS]
00:42:40
◼
►
picked some really good episodes for
[TS]
00:42:41
◼
►
this obviously i think that they no
[TS]
00:42:43
◼
►
surrender no retreat is a really great
[TS]
00:42:45
◼
►
one interludes and examinations which
[TS]
00:42:48
◼
►
sounds very much like it's going to be
[TS]
00:42:50
◼
►
an episode in which nothing happens and
[TS]
00:42:51
◼
►
in fact shocking amount of things happen
[TS]
00:42:53
◼
►
and the room gets mighty dusty when
[TS]
00:42:56
◼
►
cautious ship flies itself into the Sun
[TS]
00:42:59
◼
►
because josh has been we realize what
[TS]
00:43:03
◼
►
he's been trying to tell Sheridan is
[TS]
00:43:05
◼
►
you're right we need to do this thing
[TS]
00:43:07
◼
►
and attack the shadows and they're going
[TS]
00:43:08
◼
►
to kill me and and I'm not going to be
[TS]
00:43:10
◼
►
able to protect you
[TS]
00:43:12
◼
►
Rance Howard Rance Howard or years old
[TS]
00:43:15
◼
►
the older you get the more set in your
[TS]
00:43:17
◼
►
ways to get more you don't know I guess
[TS]
00:43:18
◼
►
I just try to help as much of that could
[TS]
00:43:20
◼
►
those that are watching new moon scale
[TS]
00:43:24
◼
►
we said the episodes with the most
[TS]
00:43:26
◼
►
innocuous title that's the 1i am worried
[TS]
00:43:29
◼
►
oh my god I've never got so broken up
[TS]
00:43:32
◼
►
about the death of a toilet seat board
[TS]
00:43:34
◼
►
it's a beautiful to register tortoise
[TS]
00:43:37
◼
►
shell pattern on the toilet seat Bolin
[TS]
00:43:40
◼
►
gosh I i seriously khosh what a strange
[TS]
00:43:43
◼
►
character and obviously we never seem
[TS]
00:43:45
◼
►
easy he's a he is a puppeteer and then
[TS]
00:43:48
◼
►
AAW invoice but um has amazing dialogue
[TS]
00:43:52
◼
►
michael and i will often say to each
[TS]
00:43:54
◼
►
other on Twitter that the you know the
[TS]
00:43:57
◼
►
Avalanche has already begun it's too
[TS]
00:43:59
◼
►
late for the pebbles to vote right for
[TS]
00:44:02
◼
►
you have forgotten something
[TS]
00:44:04
◼
►
but at the end there when khosh is
[TS]
00:44:06
◼
►
attacked by the shadows it's upsetting
[TS]
00:44:07
◼
►
that you feel sad that this character
[TS]
00:44:11
◼
►
who was not portrayed by actor if is
[TS]
00:44:15
◼
►
it's anything you beautiful about that
[TS]
00:44:17
◼
►
particular scene is they don't show like
[TS]
00:44:20
◼
►
shadows taking out lightsabers and and
[TS]
00:44:23
◼
►
you know
[TS]
00:44:23
◼
►
kaash taking out is you know for line
[TS]
00:44:25
◼
►
Ben is three sword yeah it's just it's
[TS]
00:44:29
◼
►
it's sort of happens in a blur because
[TS]
00:44:31
◼
►
this really how do you portray that he
[TS]
00:44:33
◼
►
didn't bother there are totally
[TS]
00:44:35
◼
►
different level
[TS]
00:44:36
◼
►
yeah it was anything else but it kind of
[TS]
00:44:38
◼
►
just made it was cheap and then that one
[TS]
00:44:40
◼
►
moment you know where this surge of
[TS]
00:44:42
◼
►
energy goes to shit like what the hell
[TS]
00:44:44
◼
►
just happened
[TS]
00:44:45
◼
►
mmhmm yeah and then and and the room the
[TS]
00:44:48
◼
►
room turns bright and add water closes
[TS]
00:44:50
◼
►
his eyes and that's just you know that's
[TS]
00:44:52
◼
►
it is a signature moment for that show
[TS]
00:44:56
◼
►
yeah there's a lot of moments like that
[TS]
00:44:58
◼
►
where you you wonder what that it's easy
[TS]
00:45:01
◼
►
to be embarrassed her fraudulent to be
[TS]
00:45:02
◼
►
armchair psychologist and try to think
[TS]
00:45:05
◼
►
about the relationship that the creator
[TS]
00:45:06
◼
►
of this show must have had with his
[TS]
00:45:08
◼
►
father because there are a lot of
[TS]
00:45:10
◼
►
interludes like that where somebody has
[TS]
00:45:14
◼
►
a conversation with their father or
[TS]
00:45:16
◼
►
someone that has a fatherly love
[TS]
00:45:18
◼
►
relationship with preferred for me there
[TS]
00:45:20
◼
►
was this is me like recording the shows
[TS]
00:45:23
◼
►
on VHS and wearing out that section of
[TS]
00:45:25
◼
►
tape that I recorded dust to dust on
[TS]
00:45:28
◼
►
where Dzhokhar is as happy as having a
[TS]
00:45:31
◼
►
hallucination but he essentially meets
[TS]
00:45:33
◼
►
his spiritual father and he just then
[TS]
00:45:35
◼
►
the spiritual father just lays it out
[TS]
00:45:37
◼
►
for your car you have become distracted
[TS]
00:45:39
◼
►
this is why you're angry and this is
[TS]
00:45:41
◼
►
what you have to do and you have this
[TS]
00:45:44
◼
►
moment of pure epiphany that is so
[TS]
00:45:48
◼
►
powerful that as jakar is breaking down
[TS]
00:45:51
◼
►
i found myself in my office they're just
[TS]
00:45:54
◼
►
like wiping a tier thinking that my god
[TS]
00:45:57
◼
►
we have seen the rebirth of another
[TS]
00:45:59
◼
►
person here and that and that and it
[TS]
00:46:02
◼
►
really is a father-son sort of things
[TS]
00:46:04
◼
►
that the first is not even a second of
[TS]
00:46:06
◼
►
the fifth time that you see the kind of
[TS]
00:46:08
◼
►
relationship between these two be
[TS]
00:46:09
◼
►
between two characters like that we see
[TS]
00:46:12
◼
►
with Oliver and her father is going
[TS]
00:46:15
◼
►
along there's no doubt that in many ways
[TS]
00:46:19
◼
►
you know Sharon father was a war on the
[TS]
00:46:23
◼
►
often but i often quoted father's well
[TS]
00:46:25
◼
►
that's that that Star Trek where
[TS]
00:46:26
◼
►
everyone who everyone who looks human is
[TS]
00:46:28
◼
►
actually the offspring of human another
[TS]
00:46:30
◼
►
hey Liam certainly he just combed his
[TS]
00:46:33
◼
►
hair so you can see the bump on his
[TS]
00:46:34
◼
►
forehead we could definitely see when we
[TS]
00:46:36
◼
►
actually meet that you know the real
[TS]
00:46:38
◼
►
Sheridan's father rant rant our data
[TS]
00:46:40
◼
►
that a he too had his aphorisms right
[TS]
00:46:45
◼
►
engine and John would quote them and so
[TS]
00:46:47
◼
►
to have Josh take his his appearance in
[TS]
00:46:50
◼
►
order to say goodbye was this really
[TS]
00:46:52
◼
►
nice fitting connection between those
[TS]
00:46:55
◼
►
those characters and even happens in
[TS]
00:46:57
◼
►
midnight on the firing line when the
[TS]
00:46:59
◼
►
sinclair and love are talking about
[TS]
00:47:01
◼
►
Sinclair's father and he sort of looks
[TS]
00:47:02
◼
►
off in the distance you know that is a
[TS]
00:47:04
◼
►
nice and version of that with dr.
[TS]
00:47:06
◼
►
Franklin and his father because they
[TS]
00:47:07
◼
►
didn't get along and he comes in and it
[TS]
00:47:10
◼
►
but that but of course eventually they
[TS]
00:47:12
◼
►
sort of makeup and there's our wrath of
[TS]
00:47:13
◼
►
khan connection because that's paul
[TS]
00:47:14
◼
►
winfield but when you think about it-
[TS]
00:47:18
◼
►
spoiler horn has been alerted is that
[TS]
00:47:21
◼
►
when you get to the end of the end of
[TS]
00:47:22
◼
►
series where they finally pay off here
[TS]
00:47:24
◼
►
is what the entire series has been about
[TS]
00:47:26
◼
►
it really is about older generation
[TS]
00:47:29
◼
►
younger generation and the conflict is
[TS]
00:47:30
◼
►
always going to be between the two and
[TS]
00:47:32
◼
►
what the older generation will always
[TS]
00:47:34
◼
►
represent to that younger generation and
[TS]
00:47:36
◼
►
that and then you need at that you're
[TS]
00:47:38
◼
►
not to you really haven't completed your
[TS]
00:47:40
◼
►
journey until you have in a kind way
[TS]
00:47:42
◼
►
told the order older generation go to
[TS]
00:47:44
◼
►
hell i don't have to do what you're
[TS]
00:47:45
◼
►
telling me to do i can now think an act
[TS]
00:47:47
◼
►
and create the next generation of
[TS]
00:47:49
◼
►
Destiny for the world around me so I
[TS]
00:47:52
◼
►
don't have to tell my parents now get
[TS]
00:47:53
◼
►
the hell out of my galaxy or and i sent
[TS]
00:47:56
◼
►
a card on their birthdays and
[TS]
00:47:57
◼
►
anniversary if it's our time now
[TS]
00:48:01
◼
►
oh and along those lines of the the
[TS]
00:48:05
◼
►
piece that the the moment in this show
[TS]
00:48:07
◼
►
that really makes me ball
[TS]
00:48:10
◼
►
uh yes I can admit it is it is possibly
[TS]
00:48:13
◼
►
unusual when it's in its towards the end
[TS]
00:48:16
◼
►
of the series objects at rest when
[TS]
00:48:18
◼
►
sheridan and delenn are leaving Babylon
[TS]
00:48:21
◼
►
5 for the last time and this is the last
[TS]
00:48:24
◼
►
one of your episodes shot because the an
[TS]
00:48:26
◼
►
11-yard shot the year before
[TS]
00:48:28
◼
►
absolutely but they come about to become
[TS]
00:48:32
◼
►
about to look at the to take one last
[TS]
00:48:34
◼
►
look and you zoom in on the command deck
[TS]
00:48:39
◼
►
of the station and lined up
[TS]
00:48:43
◼
►
all in a row are all of these new
[TS]
00:48:45
◼
►
characters or old characters lifted up
[TS]
00:48:47
◼
►
in new positions and it is somebody who
[TS]
00:48:50
◼
►
is a replacement for every single lead
[TS]
00:48:55
◼
►
character in the show from commander
[TS]
00:48:57
◼
►
from Captain lochley veer replacing
[TS]
00:49:00
◼
►
Londo tell on replacing jakar the you
[TS]
00:49:05
◼
►
know all of it and silly and it's like
[TS]
00:49:08
◼
►
that is exactly what you're talking
[TS]
00:49:09
◼
►
about the next generation the
[TS]
00:49:11
◼
►
replacements here we are we're moving on
[TS]
00:49:13
◼
►
goodbye and I and then that Christopher
[TS]
00:49:16
◼
►
frog music in the background and I'm
[TS]
00:49:19
◼
►
verklempt
[TS]
00:49:19
◼
►
yeah yeah and and also the changing and
[TS]
00:49:24
◼
►
shifting perspectives like it gets to
[TS]
00:49:26
◼
►
the point where ok we think we know who
[TS]
00:49:28
◼
►
the good guys are we think we know who
[TS]
00:49:30
◼
►
the bad guys are in no it turns out the
[TS]
00:49:32
◼
►
universe isn't black and white
[TS]
00:49:34
◼
►
uh-huh and and maybe some of these good
[TS]
00:49:37
◼
►
guys are kind of acting in their own
[TS]
00:49:39
◼
►
interests that have absolutely nothing
[TS]
00:49:42
◼
►
to do with no right or wrong good and
[TS]
00:49:45
◼
►
evil and sort of Sheridan comes to that
[TS]
00:49:47
◼
►
conclusion of look what's actually
[TS]
00:49:49
◼
►
happening here the show really tilt in a
[TS]
00:49:52
◼
►
very different direction
[TS]
00:49:53
◼
►
yeah I i really appreciate and I and at
[TS]
00:49:57
◼
►
the time I don't know if it still is but
[TS]
00:49:58
◼
►
at the time it was controversial that
[TS]
00:49:59
◼
►
they ended the shadow for long conflict
[TS]
00:50:01
◼
►
so quickly but I mean I thought it was a
[TS]
00:50:03
◼
►
beautiful thing that the shadows goal is
[TS]
00:50:05
◼
►
not to take over the galaxy the shadows
[TS]
00:50:07
◼
►
goal is to i think they said knock over
[TS]
00:50:09
◼
►
an anthill right the shot just the
[TS]
00:50:11
◼
►
shadows shadows goal is to sow chaos and
[TS]
00:50:15
◼
►
get everybody to fight each other
[TS]
00:50:16
◼
►
because out of that will come a better
[TS]
00:50:19
◼
►
you know a better society the strong
[TS]
00:50:21
◼
►
will rise and the vorlons are kind of
[TS]
00:50:24
◼
►
above the fray but they're they're both
[TS]
00:50:26
◼
►
sort of feel like the galaxies there is
[TS]
00:50:28
◼
►
to dictate how it's going to go and that
[TS]
00:50:30
◼
►
and so you know yes the shadows are bad
[TS]
00:50:32
◼
►
and need to be defeated but at the same
[TS]
00:50:34
◼
►
time in the end they both need to go
[TS]
00:50:37
◼
►
they only mom and dad both need to get
[TS]
00:50:39
◼
►
out of the galaxy and that's one of the
[TS]
00:50:41
◼
►
that kind of brings me to an episode
[TS]
00:50:43
◼
►
that i really like which is enough
[TS]
00:50:44
◼
►
falling toward apotheosis which was the
[TS]
00:50:46
◼
►
first episode of season four
[TS]
00:50:48
◼
►
there's so much that happens in it that
[TS]
00:50:49
◼
►
the part that I like the best was was
[TS]
00:50:51
◼
►
actually the jacquard Londo stuff on
[TS]
00:50:53
◼
►
centauri prime but i also like the fact
[TS]
00:50:55
◼
►
that back on Babylon
[TS]
00:50:56
◼
►
five you got Sharon Lauren and a piece
[TS]
00:50:58
◼
►
of cosh taking down the new foreign
[TS]
00:51:00
◼
►
ambassador and I just I really like that
[TS]
00:51:02
◼
►
the vorlons don't stay this magical
[TS]
00:51:04
◼
►
mystical good guy angel folk they just
[TS]
00:51:07
◼
►
turned into a hole like everybody else
[TS]
00:51:09
◼
►
it turns out that they're not all the
[TS]
00:51:11
◼
►
same writer not all cut from the same
[TS]
00:51:12
◼
►
old and cash was actually kind of
[TS]
00:51:14
◼
►
different than his replacement wasn't
[TS]
00:51:16
◼
►
nearly as nice that's why they sent him
[TS]
00:51:17
◼
►
to Babylon 5 they stuck him with that
[TS]
00:51:19
◼
►
job that's right well that's I think
[TS]
00:51:21
◼
►
that was sort of the point right you
[TS]
00:51:22
◼
►
know the beginning mondo is like a I I'm
[TS]
00:51:25
◼
►
being punished from the World Court they
[TS]
00:51:27
◼
►
sent me here
[TS]
00:51:28
◼
►
yeah but with a but worth of Orleans
[TS]
00:51:31
◼
►
like presented at that moment of reveal
[TS]
00:51:33
◼
►
that they are if they they aren't the
[TS]
00:51:35
◼
►
good guys in the shadows of the bad guys
[TS]
00:51:37
◼
►
there's two opposite points of view
[TS]
00:51:38
◼
►
where guests the the vorlons excuse me
[TS]
00:51:41
◼
►
the the shadows believe kick over
[TS]
00:51:43
◼
►
inhales create conflicts become that the
[TS]
00:51:45
◼
►
survivors will become better and
[TS]
00:51:46
◼
►
stronger rest i think i can remember
[TS]
00:51:48
◼
►
this is an active i remember this as
[TS]
00:51:50
◼
►
being an exact line but I could be wrong
[TS]
00:51:51
◼
►
thing for the the vorlons are the ones
[TS]
00:51:53
◼
►
who sit down eat your vegetables comb
[TS]
00:51:56
◼
►
your hair wash behind your ears and both
[TS]
00:51:59
◼
►
of them are doing the same in both of
[TS]
00:52:00
◼
►
your eye doing are doing the same thing
[TS]
00:52:01
◼
►
saying that this generation is for us to
[TS]
00:52:04
◼
►
manipulate into we are that we are the
[TS]
00:52:06
◼
►
shepherds of the universe and we are the
[TS]
00:52:09
◼
►
parents who will make sure that the
[TS]
00:52:10
◼
►
everything work out fine by telling
[TS]
00:52:12
◼
►
everybody else what to do
[TS]
00:52:13
◼
►
whereas they don't it's alright it's
[TS]
00:52:15
◼
►
like the opposite of being of being a
[TS]
00:52:17
◼
►
child in this universe the time you you
[TS]
00:52:20
◼
►
should realize the power of your work is
[TS]
00:52:21
◼
►
done so you have to move out of the
[TS]
00:52:22
◼
►
universe
[TS]
00:52:23
◼
►
well you could you could read it going
[TS]
00:52:25
◼
►
to the next thing you could argue that
[TS]
00:52:26
◼
►
the minbari are in this state of
[TS]
00:52:28
◼
►
Arrested Development right because a
[TS]
00:52:29
◼
►
thousand years before as we see when
[TS]
00:52:31
◼
►
Babylon 4 gets it back in time and
[TS]
00:52:33
◼
►
Sinclair becomes valen and they fight
[TS]
00:52:35
◼
►
the shadow war the previous shadow war
[TS]
00:52:37
◼
►
they had spaceships and stuff then and
[TS]
00:52:39
◼
►
they were shaped a little differently
[TS]
00:52:40
◼
►
those little fishies that they fly
[TS]
00:52:42
◼
►
around in were a little rounder but um
[TS]
00:52:45
◼
►
they just are still doing the same stuff
[TS]
00:52:48
◼
►
thousand years later and why is that
[TS]
00:52:50
◼
►
that's because that's what the this
[TS]
00:52:53
◼
►
stasis that the galaxies in because the
[TS]
00:52:56
◼
►
shadows and the vorlons have been
[TS]
00:52:57
◼
►
playing this game for you know thousands
[TS]
00:52:59
◼
►
and thousands or millions of years and
[TS]
00:53:01
◼
►
and I I thought that was really great
[TS]
00:53:03
◼
►
because that is showing you that they
[TS]
00:53:06
◼
►
you know yet for the for the world's too
[TS]
00:53:09
◼
►
advanced for the
[TS]
00:53:10
◼
►
galaxy to advance they gotta leave they
[TS]
00:53:11
◼
►
got they got to let let everybody the
[TS]
00:53:13
◼
►
parents have to let the kids grow up and
[TS]
00:53:15
◼
►
that's a one of the interesting way to
[TS]
00:53:17
◼
►
resolve that that story and it's setup
[TS]
00:53:20
◼
►
it's not a made-up thing is set up all
[TS]
00:53:22
◼
►
the way through but it's a really nice
[TS]
00:53:24
◼
►
payoff that's very surprising if it's
[TS]
00:53:26
◼
►
not good versus evil it's two styles of
[TS]
00:53:28
◼
►
parenting both feel right no apparent
[TS]
00:53:31
◼
►
that says I'm gonna be very strict and
[TS]
00:53:32
◼
►
my kid play the piano and you know clean
[TS]
00:53:35
◼
►
up the room and the other parent goes
[TS]
00:53:37
◼
►
now I'm not my kid do whatever they want
[TS]
00:53:38
◼
►
and you know let them go their own way
[TS]
00:53:40
◼
►
and and don't eventually learn from
[TS]
00:53:42
◼
►
mistakes etc whatever the basketball
[TS]
00:53:45
◼
►
coach yells at their players versus the
[TS]
00:53:46
◼
►
one who becomes a father figure to all
[TS]
00:53:49
◼
►
of them and they both have their their
[TS]
00:53:50
◼
►
their their plan because the shadows
[TS]
00:53:52
◼
►
goal is to make everybody better and
[TS]
00:53:55
◼
►
stronger and more resilient self-reliant
[TS]
00:53:57
◼
►
I mean there they are evil in a way but
[TS]
00:54:01
◼
►
that they don't necessarily have evil an
[TS]
00:54:04
◼
►
evil plan for the end result they're not
[TS]
00:54:07
◼
►
trying to kill everybody
[TS]
00:54:08
◼
►
they were are going to kill lots of
[TS]
00:54:10
◼
►
people because that's what they're going
[TS]
00:54:11
◼
►
to do and that's bad but in the end they
[TS]
00:54:13
◼
►
just want you know that they want to
[TS]
00:54:15
◼
►
help our evolution along by making
[TS]
00:54:18
◼
►
everybody fight and and improve
[TS]
00:54:20
◼
►
themselves in order to survive the fight
[TS]
00:54:22
◼
►
and more chaotic neutral i would say but
[TS]
00:54:24
◼
►
not not to say the word evil people on
[TS]
00:54:27
◼
►
the show right mr. Morden clearly he was
[TS]
00:54:32
◼
►
possessed but yeah like it
[TS]
00:54:34
◼
►
he was right and that's not you know we
[TS]
00:54:36
◼
►
haven't talked without one of my
[TS]
00:54:37
◼
►
favorite characters are you know in
[TS]
00:54:40
◼
►
check off
[TS]
00:54:41
◼
►
uh-oh faster ah yes faster was also
[TS]
00:54:45
◼
►
denied especially his interactions
[TS]
00:54:47
◼
►
through out the series with Garibaldi
[TS]
00:54:49
◼
►
yeah great character great great
[TS]
00:54:52
◼
►
showcase for for Walter cannock yeah
[TS]
00:54:54
◼
►
really he managed to you know get out of
[TS]
00:54:56
◼
►
the checkoff mold I didn't know he was
[TS]
00:54:58
◼
►
going to pull it off the first time like
[TS]
00:55:00
◼
►
you know he guest-starred and it was
[TS]
00:55:02
◼
►
just perfectly play again character
[TS]
00:55:04
◼
►
interactions his interaction with
[TS]
00:55:05
◼
►
Garibaldi the whole time kind of up and
[TS]
00:55:07
◼
►
through the fifth season was just
[TS]
00:55:11
◼
►
wonderful that
[TS]
00:55:14
◼
►
how can mr. Garibaldi the Garibaldi
[TS]
00:55:17
◼
►
cigar Baldy says the best i'm gonna bite
[TS]
00:55:19
◼
►
of something to beat you like a pinata
[TS]
00:55:21
◼
►
investors as oh so you think of me as a
[TS]
00:55:24
◼
►
bright festive decorative item filled
[TS]
00:55:27
◼
►
with treats and candy for little
[TS]
00:55:28
◼
►
children
[TS]
00:55:29
◼
►
Thank You mr. Garibaldi I like the
[TS]
00:55:32
◼
►
dynamic to decide the whole psyche or
[TS]
00:55:34
◼
►
element which is again you know one of
[TS]
00:55:36
◼
►
these layers of the of the of the world
[TS]
00:55:39
◼
►
building here that there are telepaths
[TS]
00:55:41
◼
►
and humans this happened recently with
[TS]
00:55:43
◼
►
turns out because there's been you know
[TS]
00:55:45
◼
►
manipulation of humanity by the shadows
[TS]
00:55:47
◼
►
i believe is how the right that was that
[TS]
00:55:49
◼
►
was the payoff there but um that they so
[TS]
00:55:53
◼
►
you get you get the telepath 1st its 1st
[TS]
00:55:55
◼
►
it's talia and later it's late alexander
[TS]
00:55:57
◼
►
comes back from the pilot and you've got
[TS]
00:55:59
◼
►
a you've got ivana whose mother was a
[TS]
00:56:02
◼
►
telepath and that there's this dead deal
[TS]
00:56:04
◼
►
with the telepaths where they either
[TS]
00:56:06
◼
►
have to be in the psyche or they have to
[TS]
00:56:08
◼
►
take these terrible drugs that basically
[TS]
00:56:09
◼
►
make them fade away and then they die
[TS]
00:56:11
◼
►
and and that was a fascinating layer
[TS]
00:56:14
◼
►
that there's their debt the dynamic with
[TS]
00:56:16
◼
►
Bester and the psyche or and they
[TS]
00:56:18
◼
►
represent sort of the worst of earth and
[TS]
00:56:20
◼
►
humanity sometimes except not always
[TS]
00:56:23
◼
►
because they are well-rounded people too
[TS]
00:56:25
◼
►
and then you've got like the other
[TS]
00:56:26
◼
►
people who are who have their reasons to
[TS]
00:56:28
◼
►
be offended by them whether they just
[TS]
00:56:30
◼
►
aren't telepathic they have terrible
[TS]
00:56:32
◼
►
secret in their family history like
[TS]
00:56:34
◼
►
ivana I think that's one of the things
[TS]
00:56:36
◼
►
that's so great about Babylon 5 is that
[TS]
00:56:38
◼
►
you had people are well-rounded and you
[TS]
00:56:41
◼
►
get to see the characters in the stories
[TS]
00:56:43
◼
►
from so many different points of view I
[TS]
00:56:45
◼
►
mean talking about cycle you have the
[TS]
00:56:47
◼
►
chorus mother the course father where
[TS]
00:56:49
◼
►
you get to see a whole story from
[TS]
00:56:51
◼
►
Esther's point-of-view sort of her from
[TS]
00:56:53
◼
►
the point of view of up to two adoring
[TS]
00:56:56
◼
►
lackeys of investors who are following
[TS]
00:56:58
◼
►
him around and then you have a couple
[TS]
00:57:00
◼
►
episodes looking at the station from the
[TS]
00:57:03
◼
►
the media point of view or in a
[TS]
00:57:05
◼
►
documentary or the news and then you get
[TS]
00:57:07
◼
►
a view from the gallery where you have
[TS]
00:57:09
◼
►
the maintenance workers looking at so
[TS]
00:57:11
◼
►
you have all these different sort of
[TS]
00:57:12
◼
►
oblique angles that you're staring at
[TS]
00:57:15
◼
►
these beloved characters from and it
[TS]
00:57:17
◼
►
just makes them seem more well-rounded
[TS]
00:57:18
◼
►
more real and i like that are our
[TS]
00:57:21
◼
►
Babylon 5 super fans in the chat room by
[TS]
00:57:23
◼
►
the way point out and I i remember this
[TS]
00:57:24
◼
►
now i knew i wasn't sure about it it's
[TS]
00:57:26
◼
►
the 4 line
[TS]
00:57:27
◼
►
it's created the telepaths yeah and then
[TS]
00:57:29
◼
►
the shadows tried to wipe my life
[TS]
00:57:31
◼
►
because as it turns out tell pastor bad
[TS]
00:57:33
◼
►
for shadows and they don't like that so
[TS]
00:57:36
◼
►
there you go
[TS]
00:57:37
◼
►
although they're also playing that
[TS]
00:57:38
◼
►
they're also playing the long game
[TS]
00:57:40
◼
►
because they're either trying to wipe
[TS]
00:57:41
◼
►
the mountain they did wipe them out of
[TS]
00:57:43
◼
►
the nards or they try to subvert them
[TS]
00:57:45
◼
►
which is what they do by infiltrating
[TS]
00:57:46
◼
►
the psyche or methods its layers and
[TS]
00:57:49
◼
►
layers and i love that freaky shadows
[TS]
00:57:51
◼
►
there's one other one other thing I
[TS]
00:57:54
◼
►
wanted to if you'll forgive me a doctor
[TS]
00:57:56
◼
►
who reference because I'm contractually
[TS]
00:57:57
◼
►
obligated i was waiting for it i think
[TS]
00:58:01
◼
►
the whole message of this show can be
[TS]
00:58:04
◼
►
you can borrow a line from up you can
[TS]
00:58:07
◼
►
borrow a scene actually from the first
[TS]
00:58:09
◼
►
season of the rebooted Doctor Who when
[TS]
00:58:12
◼
►
Rose is sitting in the diner with her
[TS]
00:58:15
◼
►
family and saying it you have to make a
[TS]
00:58:18
◼
►
stand sometimes you have to do the right
[TS]
00:58:20
◼
►
thing you have to do what's right even
[TS]
00:58:22
◼
►
when it's difficult that's what I think
[TS]
00:58:24
◼
►
this is us this is a story about taking
[TS]
00:58:28
◼
►
agency on whether it whether it's the
[TS]
00:58:31
◼
►
human race throwing off the shackles of
[TS]
00:58:33
◼
►
the four lines in the shadows and making
[TS]
00:58:36
◼
►
their own destiny or or or if it's a
[TS]
00:58:39
◼
►
personal story like all of the many many
[TS]
00:58:43
◼
►
opportunities Londo has for redemption
[TS]
00:58:45
◼
►
that he just throws away because he
[TS]
00:58:48
◼
►
claims he doesn't have a choice for me
[TS]
00:58:52
◼
►
that's that's the soul of this show and
[TS]
00:58:54
◼
►
it's the reason why it stuck with me for
[TS]
00:58:56
◼
►
so many years it's a very human story
[TS]
00:58:58
◼
►
about your responsibilities the
[TS]
00:59:01
◼
►
responsibilities you have the choices
[TS]
00:59:04
◼
►
that you make as long as says in no
[TS]
00:59:07
◼
►
surrender no retreat
[TS]
00:59:08
◼
►
I've made some poor decisions which is a
[TS]
00:59:12
◼
►
bit of an understatement and chicken
[TS]
00:59:15
◼
►
rolls his eyes like really think maybe
[TS]
00:59:19
◼
►
maybe a little th but it shows that this
[TS]
00:59:22
◼
►
isn't in terms of central themes though
[TS]
00:59:24
◼
►
it's great when you have
[TS]
00:59:26
◼
►
that is great when you have an entire
[TS]
00:59:28
◼
►
series that has been created and pretty
[TS]
00:59:30
◼
►
much one single handily written by one
[TS]
00:59:32
◼
►
person that was where the beginning the
[TS]
00:59:34
◼
►
middle and the end every major beat was
[TS]
00:59:37
◼
►
set up by one person wasn't that we're
[TS]
00:59:39
◼
►
so he was surprised to get a first
[TS]
00:59:41
◼
►
season pickup so now has to make up what
[TS]
00:59:43
◼
►
is what's gonna happen this season 2
[TS]
00:59:44
◼
►
because now and when you listen to him
[TS]
00:59:46
◼
►
to the commentaries on the dvds he will
[TS]
00:59:48
◼
►
tell you exactly what he had in mind for
[TS]
00:59:50
◼
►
the entire series and the commentary for
[TS]
00:59:53
◼
►
whatever episode i was watching
[TS]
00:59:54
◼
►
yesterday he was saying that no this is
[TS]
00:59:56
◼
►
all about three questions
[TS]
00:59:58
◼
►
what do you want who are you and why
[TS]
00:59:58
◼
►
what do you want who are you and why
[TS]
01:00:00
◼
►
are you here every single character has
[TS]
01:00:02
◼
►
to address each of those questions that
[TS]
01:00:04
◼
►
will cause them to either get into
[TS]
01:00:05
◼
►
trouble or to save themselves and it
[TS]
01:00:07
◼
►
depends on which characters and is
[TS]
01:00:09
◼
►
dealing with one question where the
[TS]
01:00:10
◼
►
shadows are very much
[TS]
01:00:12
◼
►
what do you want i will use that i will
[TS]
01:00:14
◼
►
use your desires to give you things and
[TS]
01:00:16
◼
►
manipulate you
[TS]
01:00:17
◼
►
you know and then the vorlons are who
[TS]
01:00:19
◼
►
are you what you and then the and then
[TS]
01:00:22
◼
►
the the humans later on settle the
[TS]
01:00:24
◼
►
question after the kick-out the more
[TS]
01:00:25
◼
►
lines in the shadows the last of the of
[TS]
01:00:28
◼
►
the first ones they have to figure out
[TS]
01:00:30
◼
►
why are we here now
[TS]
01:00:32
◼
►
yeah it's the there there is that whole
[TS]
01:00:35
◼
►
notion let me know what does probably
[TS]
01:00:37
◼
►
the most tragic figure
[TS]
01:00:40
◼
►
and I think in the whole thing whom
[TS]
01:00:42
◼
►
ensures the most he's given were told
[TS]
01:00:45
◼
►
right because the you-know-who is it
[TS]
01:00:48
◼
►
major Baird shows up to you know tell me
[TS]
01:00:51
◼
►
a story chances of redemption and you
[TS]
01:00:53
◼
►
can throughout you can just sort of
[TS]
01:00:55
◼
►
watched I can i met your mother how many
[TS]
01:00:57
◼
►
snaps yeah how many chances Londo gonna
[TS]
01:01:00
◼
►
get up there he goes
[TS]
01:01:01
◼
►
i'm michael ansara the Klingon from
[TS]
01:01:03
◼
►
structure has the techno mage who says
[TS]
01:01:05
◼
►
you right you know it you know it
[TS]
01:01:06
◼
►
reinforces the unit will be emperor and
[TS]
01:01:09
◼
►
icy your hand reaching out and thousands
[TS]
01:01:11
◼
►
of people calling your name
[TS]
01:01:12
◼
►
oh my subjects know your victims your
[TS]
01:01:14
◼
►
victims like dang but he gets he gets
[TS]
01:01:17
◼
►
what he wants and it turns out what he
[TS]
01:01:19
◼
►
wants is horrible and she didn't want
[TS]
01:01:21
◼
►
any comes comes becomes by degrees to
[TS]
01:01:25
◼
►
accept to understand exactly what he's
[TS]
01:01:28
◼
►
done yes it's it's not as though he
[TS]
01:01:30
◼
►
becomes a bad guy he really figures out
[TS]
01:01:32
◼
►
that oh this is coming at two
[TS]
01:01:33
◼
►
high-priced I've done I've done very
[TS]
01:01:36
◼
►
very evil things like that like of the
[TS]
01:01:38
◼
►
the first like huge machination that
[TS]
01:01:41
◼
►
first political machinations did where
[TS]
01:01:43
◼
►
you know that he he knows that the
[TS]
01:01:45
◼
►
Emperor wants truce wants to bid for to
[TS]
01:01:48
◼
►
the end all these insane raids that he
[TS]
01:01:50
◼
►
and his men have been trying to trying
[TS]
01:01:52
◼
►
to manipulate and then the Londos the
[TS]
01:01:55
◼
►
only 12 here is dying words because just
[TS]
01:01:57
◼
►
because he's about to make a big
[TS]
01:01:58
◼
►
announcement dissolves in motion he just
[TS]
01:02:00
◼
►
happens to keel over and die and then he
[TS]
01:02:03
◼
►
says what did he say
[TS]
01:02:05
◼
►
and then he said continue continue my
[TS]
01:02:07
◼
►
work could bring bring my people to the
[TS]
01:02:09
◼
►
back to the Stars and then in privacy
[TS]
01:02:11
◼
►
one of his henchmen is like somebody
[TS]
01:02:13
◼
►
really say and this hollow expression
[TS]
01:02:16
◼
►
I'm petered Peter six face and the tone
[TS]
01:02:19
◼
►
in which he says this brilliance of the
[TS]
01:02:21
◼
►
character brands of the rider brought
[TS]
01:02:23
◼
►
into the actor he just hollow and ashen
[TS]
01:02:26
◼
►
face it he said we are both damned huh
[TS]
01:02:30
◼
►
man fade out like oh man is only gonna
[TS]
01:02:34
◼
►
be a week to the next episode so Babylon
[TS]
01:02:37
◼
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5 was a forerunner when it came to 3d
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01:02:40
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graphics and today we think about 3d
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01:02:42
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graphics is something that anybody can
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01:02:43
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do and you know what you can you
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01:02:45
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actually can do it you just have to
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01:02:47
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learn how
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01:02:48
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here's where you can learn about stuff
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like building 3d models and getting into
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01:02:55
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it's our sponsor its lynda.com at
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mentioned 3d earlier
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among the things that you can learn
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using lynda.com unity Maya zbrush Mudbox
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effects by learning it and lynda.com
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that's a little too much for you
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how about Apple related stuff unix
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is a new course they've got Linda lots
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courses about it
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screenwriting George Lucas I just
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mentioning that hum jo Straczynski maybe
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you don't need that course George Lucas
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you need to do you get a free trial
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access the entire lynda.com library all
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not just a little introductory sample
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all of the course material is available
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01:04:55
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for free by visiting lynda.com /
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01:04:58
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incomparable so ILY nba.com slash
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incomparable that's where you need to go
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01:05:05
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I think you're going to love it and
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01:05:06
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you're going to want to learn more and
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01:05:08
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more and more using a great video
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01:05:10
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coursework at lynda.com and thank you to
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01:05:12
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linda.com for sponsoring the
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01:05:14
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incomparable and there's so many
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01:05:16
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different great great arcs and the love
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01:05:19
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the Centauri stuff when they're on
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01:05:23
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Centauri Prime with the crazy nephew of
[TS]
01:05:25
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the old Emperor in the new emperor
[TS]
01:05:27
◼
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cartagia such a great arc right at the
[TS]
01:05:31
◼
►
little mini arc inside the story of this
[TS]
01:05:33
◼
►
mad Emperor and you realize that Londo
[TS]
01:05:35
◼
►
is got together weigh more than most of
[TS]
01:05:37
◼
►
the door in and that frame to be a real
[TS]
01:05:39
◼
►
Patriot he needs to he needs to be so
[TS]
01:05:42
◼
►
patriotic that he kills the Emperor
[TS]
01:05:44
◼
►
because the Emperor is going to lead
[TS]
01:05:45
◼
►
them to literally to destruction right
[TS]
01:05:47
◼
►
the shadows are going to cover the four
[TS]
01:05:48
◼
►
lines are going to come and blow up
[TS]
01:05:50
◼
►
their planet because the good guys right
[TS]
01:05:51
◼
►
that's why they blow up whole planets
[TS]
01:05:53
◼
►
with the planet killing but the genius
[TS]
01:05:55
◼
►
is this show is it's not it winds up not
[TS]
01:05:57
◼
►
being him who kills the Emperor yes it
[TS]
01:06:00
◼
►
totally submerse your expectations ahead
[TS]
01:06:02
◼
►
and that so answer since he is a story
[TS]
01:06:04
◼
►
about that where he expected it to be
[TS]
01:06:05
◼
►
londo and then he was writing that he
[TS]
01:06:07
◼
►
was writing that screenplay and as he's
[TS]
01:06:09
◼
►
writing it
[TS]
01:06:10
◼
►
he said he said they're basically so no
[TS]
01:06:12
◼
►
I'm gonna do this like yeah alright yeah
[TS]
01:06:14
◼
►
well-well v revolves so powerfully from
[TS]
01:06:18
◼
►
this buffoon right you know who's
[TS]
01:06:20
◼
►
basically you know
[TS]
01:06:22
◼
►
Mondo's in a whipping boy on it to the
[TS]
01:06:25
◼
►
guy to the guy what's worse when your
[TS]
01:06:27
◼
►
family thinks you're a loser really
[TS]
01:06:29
◼
►
doesn't he doesn't he doesn't said they
[TS]
01:06:30
◼
►
don't send you to lose your post they
[TS]
01:06:32
◼
►
make you the assistance is necessary to
[TS]
01:06:35
◼
►
grow and then he
[TS]
01:06:36
◼
►
the first one who stands up to morning
[TS]
01:06:38
◼
►
where's that crazy and Morneau is there
[TS]
01:06:41
◼
►
something you want me to do the only
[TS]
01:06:42
◼
►
thing i'd like to see you is your head
[TS]
01:06:44
◼
►
on a pike and then I would wave to you
[TS]
01:06:45
◼
►
like this with which happens later
[TS]
01:06:47
◼
►
yes it is how i would like to live long
[TS]
01:06:49
◼
►
enough to see your head popping up like
[TS]
01:06:51
◼
►
as a warning that sometimes things come
[TS]
01:06:53
◼
►
to higher price I would look up until
[TS]
01:06:56
◼
►
you're dry lifeless eyes and smile and
[TS]
01:06:58
◼
►
wave to you like this and then later
[TS]
01:07:01
◼
►
bring that for me mr. work in a later
[TS]
01:07:03
◼
►
and he watches is there anything i can I
[TS]
01:07:05
◼
►
I can do for you and Angie says about
[TS]
01:07:08
◼
►
excuse me are you willing to do that
[TS]
01:07:11
◼
►
yeah well and also the backbone he shows
[TS]
01:07:13
◼
►
even to the the his boss to Londo as
[TS]
01:07:16
◼
►
he's cowering where they said there's
[TS]
01:07:17
◼
►
some final execution order for some
[TS]
01:07:20
◼
►
operation that blonde the Londos just
[TS]
01:07:22
◼
►
sending veer off design he's begging
[TS]
01:07:24
◼
►
Londo reconsider this is a bad mistake
[TS]
01:07:26
◼
►
this is a terrible terrible thing and
[TS]
01:07:28
◼
►
then like what I have to do this myself
[TS]
01:07:30
◼
►
and then veer when the most one of these
[TS]
01:07:33
◼
►
perfect character moments says just
[TS]
01:07:35
◼
►
stiff stiffly says no I will go to i
[TS]
01:07:39
◼
►
will go do this thing you need me to do
[TS]
01:07:41
◼
►
but at some point I'm going to remind
[TS]
01:07:43
◼
►
you that I tried to talk you out
[TS]
01:07:45
◼
►
yeah and then let's that linger as he
[TS]
01:07:48
◼
►
leaves but there's a joke
[TS]
01:07:49
◼
►
there's a there's a funny joke when when
[TS]
01:07:52
◼
►
major Garrett rod Barry says says you
[TS]
01:07:55
◼
►
will be over and you will be in for
[TS]
01:07:57
◼
►
after the other one is dead and you're
[TS]
01:07:59
◼
►
like oh what a funny thing and get when
[TS]
01:08:02
◼
►
that moment comes when of women
[TS]
01:08:04
◼
►
flashforward we see that veer is going
[TS]
01:08:06
◼
►
to be the Emperor after jakar strangles
[TS]
01:08:09
◼
►
Londo that it turns out is a mercy
[TS]
01:08:11
◼
►
killing that that a there's going to be
[TS]
01:08:15
◼
►
a good Emperor you know right i mean
[TS]
01:08:17
◼
►
it's not a joke and and we see why he's
[TS]
01:08:19
◼
►
gotten here and he has progressed in
[TS]
01:08:21
◼
►
this incredible way from when we first
[TS]
01:08:23
◼
►
team in fact there was always juxtaposed
[TS]
01:08:25
◼
►
with linear played by Bill me another
[TS]
01:08:27
◼
►
kind of go wrangle Robbins actor from a
[TS]
01:08:30
◼
►
Anthony Anthony he will send them to the
[TS]
01:08:33
◼
►
cornfield and um you know it at the time
[TS]
01:08:37
◼
►
it seemed like well you know he's going
[TS]
01:08:38
◼
►
to be this month like figure and take
[TS]
01:08:40
◼
►
care of the land and then veer is this
[TS]
01:08:41
◼
►
buffoonish figure and in the end here
[TS]
01:08:43
◼
►
gets a much better path and linear sort
[TS]
01:08:45
◼
►
of doesn't go anywhere and i would
[TS]
01:08:46
◼
►
actually argue is the only character who
[TS]
01:08:48
◼
►
never who doesn't get redeemed
[TS]
01:08:50
◼
►
he his last act is cowardly and awful
[TS]
01:08:52
◼
►
and he leaves in disgrace and that's the
[TS]
01:08:54
◼
►
last we see of him
[TS]
01:08:56
◼
►
interesting how that happened and that
[TS]
01:08:57
◼
►
also supports expectations i think of
[TS]
01:09:00
◼
►
the show although not executed quite as
[TS]
01:09:02
◼
►
cleanly always some other stone was
[TS]
01:09:04
◼
►
poorly done and I'm sure was set up and
[TS]
01:09:06
◼
►
I don't really like that linear his
[TS]
01:09:08
◼
►
character got so assassinated at the end
[TS]
01:09:10
◼
►
but it is interesting in contrast to
[TS]
01:09:12
◼
►
veer who gets built up into this really
[TS]
01:09:13
◼
►
dramatically different thing from how we
[TS]
01:09:16
◼
►
first saw him but I think that's because
[TS]
01:09:17
◼
►
he never evolved he was the one
[TS]
01:09:20
◼
►
character we didn't evolve he had a
[TS]
01:09:21
◼
►
crush on the Len and he never got over
[TS]
01:09:23
◼
►
it and that pretty much clear and the
[TS]
01:09:27
◼
►
result get over it right we did snap out
[TS]
01:09:30
◼
►
of it was another example of how we have
[TS]
01:09:32
◼
►
to let go of things from the past and I
[TS]
01:09:34
◼
►
the one that's just hanging on for dear
[TS]
01:09:36
◼
►
life and he's hoping my kids going to
[TS]
01:09:39
◼
►
come to her senses the other great
[TS]
01:09:42
◼
►
relationship with Marcus and the Rangers
[TS]
01:09:44
◼
►
the whole reassess the Rangers yes I'm
[TS]
01:09:47
◼
►
not shot at home a battle is yes that
[TS]
01:09:50
◼
►
that whole arc and and I was a spinoff
[TS]
01:09:52
◼
►
waiting to happen exam didn't have a
[TS]
01:09:54
◼
►
broad and market he was just such a
[TS]
01:09:55
◼
►
great character anything yeah yeah that
[TS]
01:09:59
◼
►
was good and that was a one of those
[TS]
01:10:00
◼
►
examples to I i have read my notes I
[TS]
01:10:02
◼
►
have like four or five things I haven't
[TS]
01:10:03
◼
►
mentioned that i want to mention one of
[TS]
01:10:04
◼
►
them is the lord of the rings which is
[TS]
01:10:06
◼
►
just as he totally obsessed Florida
[TS]
01:10:08
◼
►
rings the Rangers are lifted right out
[TS]
01:10:11
◼
►
there this Caza doom and in whose work
[TS]
01:10:14
◼
►
and all falls into a bottomless pit and
[TS]
01:10:16
◼
►
emerges transformed and here we have
[TS]
01:10:17
◼
►
Zaha do more shared and does the exact
[TS]
01:10:19
◼
►
same thing
[TS]
01:10:20
◼
►
Lori n the the references to lord of the
[TS]
01:10:23
◼
►
rings throughout this and it's like a
[TS]
01:10:25
◼
►
copy of Lord of the Rings but it is
[TS]
01:10:27
◼
►
source material for this story and
[TS]
01:10:29
◼
►
that's fascinating and if you go back
[TS]
01:10:31
◼
►
and look at it especially now that the
[TS]
01:10:33
◼
►
lord of the rings movies were made so so
[TS]
01:10:35
◼
►
people have experienced that may be more
[TS]
01:10:36
◼
►
than just reading the book a couple of
[TS]
01:10:37
◼
►
times I imagine since he read it a
[TS]
01:10:39
◼
►
thousand times but this that 15 is full
[TS]
01:10:43
◼
►
of Lord of the Rings references like
[TS]
01:10:44
◼
►
bursting with rings and the Rangers are
[TS]
01:10:47
◼
►
the best example I right but there's so
[TS]
01:10:49
◼
►
many other things that he throws in that
[TS]
01:10:51
◼
►
you know if you know yeah we did with
[TS]
01:10:52
◼
►
the Ministry of 1984 always need more
[TS]
01:10:55
◼
►
absolutely you know just these little
[TS]
01:10:58
◼
►
settle things that he would totally now
[TS]
01:11:00
◼
►
and then
[TS]
01:11:01
◼
►
and of course Daffy Duck Creek and
[TS]
01:11:03
◼
►
not-so-subtle things like the we have
[TS]
01:11:04
◼
►
two entire episodes that are fairly
[TS]
01:11:06
◼
►
standalone that are devoted to the
[TS]
01:11:08
◼
►
Arthurian legend right yes Grail and
[TS]
01:11:10
◼
►
can't get the other one but the other
[TS]
01:11:12
◼
►
one actually happens to be the very
[TS]
01:11:13
◼
►
first one
[TS]
01:11:14
◼
►
next I late delivery from Avalon right
[TS]
01:11:16
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it's very first right first full episode
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01:11:18
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of Babylon 5 that are mostly full
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01:11:20
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episode that we watched and that was
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01:11:22
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that was the one where make my friends
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01:11:23
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and i turned to each other and said
[TS]
01:11:24
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that's because pretty good you want to
[TS]
01:11:26
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get together early next week and watch
[TS]
01:11:28
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that's what Michael that's that Michael
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01:11:30
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your micro yards out yeah that was I
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01:11:32
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think that was what drew is saying but
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01:11:34
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the episode held our attention
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01:11:36
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Jason I'd like to grab onto what you
[TS]
01:11:38
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said about Lord of the Rings real quick
[TS]
01:11:40
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and write this on the table there's one
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01:11:41
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there's one big difference between this
[TS]
01:11:43
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and Lord of the Rings and that is season
[TS]
01:11:45
◼
►
five Lord of the Rings in uh with
[TS]
01:11:49
◼
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aragorn taking the throne and that's you
[TS]
01:11:53
◼
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know that's that's pretty much the end
[TS]
01:11:54
◼
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of the story behind the always go with
[TS]
01:11:56
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the elves go into the West I guess right
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01:11:58
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that's the air leaving town
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01:11:59
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yeah any linux things yes all 47 endings
[TS]
01:12:04
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of order india season five is really
[TS]
01:12:06
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interesting because not in its and many
[TS]
01:12:10
◼
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people regarded as a lesser season and
[TS]
01:12:12
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and I'll out I I'll grant that but a
[TS]
01:12:16
◼
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part of the whole five-year plan of this
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01:12:18
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show even if some parts of it got
[TS]
01:12:20
◼
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accelerated indonesian season four was
[TS]
01:12:22
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the building of an empire and then
[TS]
01:12:24
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season five is about what happens when
[TS]
01:12:27
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you've got that in dryer hear you
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01:12:30
◼
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we're in charge now we've gotten rid of
[TS]
01:12:32
◼
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the four lines we've eliminated the
[TS]
01:12:34
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problem on earth now what do we do and I
[TS]
01:12:37
◼
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moved out of my parents basement now now
[TS]
01:12:40
◼
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what exactly and and I and I think
[TS]
01:12:43
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that's I think that's the most
[TS]
01:12:45
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fascinating decision that JMS made it's
[TS]
01:12:48
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the hardest season to right and it is it
[TS]
01:12:51
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is not as successful as the season
[TS]
01:12:53
◼
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because the challenges so much greater
[TS]
01:12:54
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here all of a sudden the stories about
[TS]
01:12:58
◼
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building rather than rather than
[TS]
01:13:01
◼
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opposing something it's that it's it's a
[TS]
01:13:04
◼
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year-long Dana mom and I can I think his
[TS]
01:13:07
◼
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original plan before he accelerated
[TS]
01:13:09
◼
►
things because he thought that there
[TS]
01:13:10
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►
that they weren't gonna get a fifth
[TS]
01:13:12
◼
►
season he could smell the the end
[TS]
01:13:14
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►
he didn't want to blow it I i assume
[TS]
01:13:16
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that the fifth season normally would
[TS]
01:13:18
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have been sort of half the Civil War and
[TS]
01:13:21
◼
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then half picking up the pieces at the
[TS]
01:13:22
◼
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end I don't believe it would have been
[TS]
01:13:23
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like just the civil war and that would
[TS]
01:13:26
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be the end I think he was firmly
[TS]
01:13:27
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committed to 22 doing some of that stuff
[TS]
01:13:30
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because that I that's just his gameplan
[TS]
01:13:32
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claimed that it was going to run into
[TS]
01:13:35
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like the first four five or six eps that
[TS]
01:13:37
◼
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series for would have run into the first
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01:13:40
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four or five or six episodes of the 15
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01:13:43
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and then he would pick up the pieces so
[TS]
01:13:44
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he had some padding to do because now he
[TS]
01:13:46
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had he had to find another story arc to
[TS]
01:13:48
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hang the whole season on but you know I
[TS]
01:13:51
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i agree with you buy it was not it was
[TS]
01:13:53
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not my favorite their stuff in there
[TS]
01:13:55
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that I actually looking back i really
[TS]
01:13:56
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like but I think it's that I think it
[TS]
01:13:58
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feels diluted like like not not diluted
[TS]
01:14:01
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like diluted that it's it's it's just
[TS]
01:14:03
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like you know an important piece was
[TS]
01:14:06
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missing and he put some other stuff in
[TS]
01:14:08
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and but that is the point i mean not to
[TS]
01:14:10
◼
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go back to another sci-fi reference and
[TS]
01:14:13
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and say that you know the end of
[TS]
01:14:15
◼
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watchmen nothing ever ends but that is
[TS]
01:14:16
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sort of the point that he's making here
[TS]
01:14:18
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is there's no end to the story
[TS]
01:14:19
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it keeps going and sometimes what
[TS]
01:14:21
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happens after the big dramatic moment is
[TS]
01:14:23
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just as interesting as ending on the big
[TS]
01:14:25
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dramatic moment which is that when the
[TS]
01:14:27
◼
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shadow form on war is resolved and
[TS]
01:14:29
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►
there's like no now what it's like we
[TS]
01:14:30
◼
►
gotta go back to earth now and you know
[TS]
01:14:33
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we can't be it's not yeah it's over it's
[TS]
01:14:35
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►
not over it's never over
[TS]
01:14:36
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►
I thought that there's one big thing I
[TS]
01:14:39
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►
really liked two things I really didn't
[TS]
01:14:41
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like and the rest was kind of okay I
[TS]
01:14:43
◼
►
like I liked that I was brilliant to see
[TS]
01:14:46
◼
►
that jakar is now being elevated to
[TS]
01:14:49
◼
►
essentially the Gandhi of the novels
[TS]
01:14:52
◼
►
like there's just like their disciples
[TS]
01:14:53
◼
►
of Jaquan and yes cars book you write
[TS]
01:14:56
◼
►
this book that becomes a spiritual book
[TS]
01:14:58
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►
and it's out of his own control
[TS]
01:15:00
◼
►
it's just it's just part of that
[TS]
01:15:01
◼
►
graduation of you are the younger
[TS]
01:15:03
◼
►
generation but now you're going to be
[TS]
01:15:05
◼
►
the advisors to the younger generation
[TS]
01:15:06
◼
►
that's a total different things you have
[TS]
01:15:08
◼
►
to deal with but the things that kind of
[TS]
01:15:10
◼
►
the two things that kind of got me and
[TS]
01:15:11
◼
►
they're kind of related is that Byron I
[TS]
01:15:14
◼
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just never got now i agree cuz he just
[TS]
01:15:16
◼
►
he was a soldier email is telepathic
[TS]
01:15:18
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line is Byron i have long flowing hair
[TS]
01:15:22
◼
►
I'm named after Romantic poet
[TS]
01:15:24
◼
►
I have an english accent and i'm here to
[TS]
01:15:27
◼
►
tell you you're a wonderful woman mrs.
[TS]
01:15:29
◼
►
it's like for heaven's sake that was
[TS]
01:15:31
◼
►
what ruined the entire i think i
[TS]
01:15:33
◼
►
probably could have bought into the
[TS]
01:15:35
◼
►
whole telepath thing in series five that
[TS]
01:15:37
◼
►
but I just never saw any chemistry with
[TS]
01:15:40
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►
byron and Lita and that turned me after
[TS]
01:15:42
◼
►
the whole thing I mean a false ringing
[TS]
01:15:44
◼
►
love story is a very quick way to make
[TS]
01:15:46
◼
►
me check right out
[TS]
01:15:47
◼
►
yeah it was clear that there was some
[TS]
01:15:50
◼
►
filler needed it was also you know after
[TS]
01:15:53
◼
►
everything that happened your kind of
[TS]
01:15:55
◼
►
this for your roller coaster ride
[TS]
01:15:58
◼
►
haha and now it's like okay you know
[TS]
01:16:02
◼
►
i'll look you know move doing now we
[TS]
01:16:04
◼
►
have a government with to set up some
[TS]
01:16:05
◼
►
stationery and office you have to choose
[TS]
01:16:09
◼
►
a logo we all look we all know how
[TS]
01:16:10
◼
►
difficult it is to decide on the logos
[TS]
01:16:12
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►
very hard
[TS]
01:16:13
◼
►
everybody's got an opinion it's one of
[TS]
01:16:15
◼
►
those things that annoyed me about star
[TS]
01:16:16
◼
►
wars with the ended right now all of a
[TS]
01:16:18
◼
►
sudden it's like okay you know we go up
[TS]
01:16:19
◼
►
the next death star and yeah everything
[TS]
01:16:21
◼
►
at once on you know yeah how you know
[TS]
01:16:23
◼
►
the couches the chaos everything's
[TS]
01:16:26
◼
►
finished everything everything's fine
[TS]
01:16:28
◼
►
goodness party we have to end it
[TS]
01:16:32
◼
►
yeah yeah that's what in other words
[TS]
01:16:34
◼
►
they didn't do anything around with it
[TS]
01:16:35
◼
►
didn't even move to the ramifications of
[TS]
01:16:37
◼
►
now we must rebuild and welcomes a that
[TS]
01:16:39
◼
►
was the end of the series and they were
[TS]
01:16:40
◼
►
going to do anymore the nice thing about
[TS]
01:16:41
◼
►
tvs you can I mean Straczynski I think
[TS]
01:16:43
◼
►
very he wasn't he wasn't going to leave
[TS]
01:16:46
◼
►
himself time to tell about what happened
[TS]
01:16:48
◼
►
after i think the season five he just
[TS]
01:16:50
◼
►
ended up leaving himself a little too
[TS]
01:16:51
◼
►
much time because he he needed to cram
[TS]
01:16:54
◼
►
that stuff into season 4 because they
[TS]
01:16:55
◼
►
literally the pten Education Network
[TS]
01:16:58
◼
►
package thing was dying literally was it
[TS]
01:17:01
◼
►
was ending and they got saved by cable
[TS]
01:17:04
◼
►
it was being sent beyond the rim
[TS]
01:17:06
◼
►
yes that's right or into the West
[TS]
01:17:08
◼
►
depending on if it's Lord of the Rings
[TS]
01:17:09
◼
►
are not uh yeah what I had a couple of
[TS]
01:17:14
◼
►
things I want to mention that on my list
[TS]
01:17:15
◼
►
i want to mention the relationship
[TS]
01:17:16
◼
►
between sheridan and delenn because i
[TS]
01:17:19
◼
►
think it's really interesting i'm not a
[TS]
01:17:20
◼
►
I'm not so infantile they have these
[TS]
01:17:22
◼
►
things the the shippers people who are
[TS]
01:17:23
◼
►
very very very very invested in certain
[TS]
01:17:26
◼
►
relationships often times not
[TS]
01:17:27
◼
►
relationships that actually are in the
[TS]
01:17:29
◼
►
show but i want to say that if I've ever
[TS]
01:17:32
◼
►
identified with shippers in any form is
[TS]
01:17:34
◼
►
probably the relationship with john
[TS]
01:17:36
◼
►
sheridan and delenn
[TS]
01:17:37
◼
►
I i love that relationship i love
[TS]
01:17:39
◼
►
everything about it i love that it is a
[TS]
01:17:40
◼
►
people getting to know each other yes
[TS]
01:17:42
◼
►
one of them is kind of mumbling bari
[TS]
01:17:44
◼
►
transformed into a half-human by a
[TS]
01:17:47
◼
►
cocoon and all that and you still got
[TS]
01:17:49
◼
►
half a bone airhead restless and i know
[TS]
01:17:51
◼
►
i know it's Christmas ok yeah-and-a-half
[TS]
01:17:53
◼
►
a bone in her head that she's got hair
[TS]
01:17:55
◼
►
and yeah okay that's all great but they
[TS]
01:17:58
◼
►
get to know each other and and they work
[TS]
01:18:01
◼
►
together in their build mutual respect
[TS]
01:18:03
◼
►
and it's the sweet romance that plays
[TS]
01:18:05
◼
►
out over a lot of time they get married
[TS]
01:18:07
◼
►
and at the end they have a baby and
[TS]
01:18:08
◼
►
isn't that nice i really like that
[TS]
01:18:10
◼
►
relationship with it but it's also they
[TS]
01:18:12
◼
►
get to know each other yeah 3 scene
[TS]
01:18:14
◼
►
where you know they both have to stay
[TS]
01:18:16
◼
►
she has to watch over me he's trying to
[TS]
01:18:17
◼
►
sleep on that minbari torture board
[TS]
01:18:19
◼
►
keeps falling off and she's very mad and
[TS]
01:18:24
◼
►
like yeah i mean i i'm gonna put up with
[TS]
01:18:26
◼
►
this because and you know we see that
[TS]
01:18:30
◼
►
it's me again and again you share
[TS]
01:18:31
◼
►
insurance but he's one learns want to go
[TS]
01:18:33
◼
►
through this i think the one point where
[TS]
01:18:36
◼
►
sheridan loses it is in the shadows i do
[TS]
01:18:40
◼
►
when he encounters morning and everyone
[TS]
01:18:43
◼
►
is wailing on him like you can't do this
[TS]
01:18:45
◼
►
like you can't like you know and
[TS]
01:18:47
◼
►
Garibaldi quits I'm sorry I'm just not
[TS]
01:18:49
◼
►
going through this i mean you know you
[TS]
01:18:51
◼
►
are you were just going way off the deep
[TS]
01:18:53
◼
►
end and even Zacks kind of looking at
[TS]
01:18:55
◼
►
kind of funny
[TS]
01:18:56
◼
►
where is he where is delenn then yeah
[TS]
01:18:58
◼
►
and then eventually internet all of us
[TS]
01:19:02
◼
►
and they don't get all of a sudden you
[TS]
01:19:03
◼
►
get you a few don't know what the hell's
[TS]
01:19:04
◼
►
going on you got it you got take step
[TS]
01:19:06
◼
►
calm down i got tell you what's going on
[TS]
01:19:08
◼
►
and you and she doesn't want to and he's
[TS]
01:19:10
◼
►
like you better tell me then she has I
[TS]
01:19:12
◼
►
think the best lines in that episode
[TS]
01:19:13
◼
►
this I'll tell you but you're never
[TS]
01:19:15
◼
►
gonna sleep again for the rest of your
[TS]
01:19:17
◼
►
life comes with a little price but I do
[TS]
01:19:22
◼
►
i do love that relationship that just
[TS]
01:19:24
◼
►
it's one of the rare TV relationships
[TS]
01:19:26
◼
►
that I felt I think because of the time
[TS]
01:19:28
◼
►
they spent building it and the fact that
[TS]
01:19:30
◼
►
it was it didn't go have a big
[TS]
01:19:31
◼
►
back-and-forth of drama of will there
[TS]
01:19:34
◼
►
won't say it was a it was a build and it
[TS]
01:19:36
◼
►
felt real to me even if one of Eric come
[TS]
01:19:39
◼
►
out of the very very very very real
[TS]
01:19:41
◼
►
because it even there
[TS]
01:19:43
◼
►
j michael Straczynski refuse to just
[TS]
01:19:45
◼
►
lock characters and archetype because
[TS]
01:19:47
◼
►
remember that after after sheridan dies
[TS]
01:19:49
◼
►
the Len goes a little
[TS]
01:19:50
◼
►
bit nuts she beats you you remember that
[TS]
01:19:53
◼
►
oh yeah you are you are reminded that
[TS]
01:19:55
◼
►
she was a very very fierce warrior and
[TS]
01:19:57
◼
►
that's when she starts piling the right
[TS]
01:19:59
◼
►
white star and say well okay we boy
[TS]
01:20:00
◼
►
we've managed to escape from the skin of
[TS]
01:20:02
◼
►
our teeth now let's turn around and blow
[TS]
01:20:05
◼
►
them to hell she is mad and she is not
[TS]
01:20:09
◼
►
going she's going to take our aggression
[TS]
01:20:10
◼
►
on anybody who looks like an enemy who
[TS]
01:20:12
◼
►
is in a ship that is within firing range
[TS]
01:20:14
◼
►
I that is that is not again it's not
[TS]
01:20:16
◼
►
that I hope this is not supposed there's
[TS]
01:20:18
◼
►
not going to be like a rant against you
[TS]
01:20:20
◼
►
know against the star trek but that's
[TS]
01:20:22
◼
►
the difference between those two styles
[TS]
01:20:24
◼
►
where you would never have some wall
[TS]
01:20:26
◼
►
you know you really mustn't turn all
[TS]
01:20:28
◼
►
anger into hey dog it's like no lock on
[TS]
01:20:32
◼
►
photons and basically blasting the hell
[TS]
01:20:34
◼
►
they killed my son screw him
[TS]
01:20:35
◼
►
yeah they they lost their ability they
[TS]
01:20:37
◼
►
lost their right to live when they
[TS]
01:20:39
◼
►
pissed me off to the degree that they
[TS]
01:20:40
◼
►
piss me off and and and only one man has
[TS]
01:20:44
◼
►
survived contact with a shadow with an
[TS]
01:20:47
◼
►
NRI cruiser he's behind he is behind you
[TS]
01:20:50
◼
►
or in front of me
[TS]
01:20:52
◼
►
if you value allow your life be
[TS]
01:20:54
◼
►
somewhere and somewhere else i'm sorry i
[TS]
01:20:58
◼
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started step in your life but yeah that
[TS]
01:20:59
◼
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was the plan
[TS]
01:21:01
◼
►
so many beautiful view so many beautiful
[TS]
01:21:03
◼
►
beautiful lines in this whole Syria and
[TS]
01:21:06
◼
►
are our characters get to make mistakes
[TS]
01:21:10
◼
►
and do bad things and it doesn't make
[TS]
01:21:11
◼
►
them bad people they make mistakes and
[TS]
01:21:13
◼
►
where they do things out of rage or out
[TS]
01:21:16
◼
►
of miss you know misconception and
[TS]
01:21:18
◼
►
that's like people like people do and
[TS]
01:21:20
◼
►
the evil when we see here's another
[TS]
01:21:21
◼
►
great thing we mention 1984 in the
[TS]
01:21:23
◼
►
Ministry of peace and things like that
[TS]
01:21:25
◼
►
Stravinsky's worldview is fascinating
[TS]
01:21:27
◼
►
evil true evil is a bureaucracy it's
[TS]
01:21:32
◼
►
banal the true evil is the guy standing
[TS]
01:21:36
◼
►
onstage saying i'll give you an armband
[TS]
01:21:37
◼
►
if you you know report for the Night
[TS]
01:21:40
◼
►
Watch that's the true evil or when we go
[TS]
01:21:42
◼
►
to xel-há doom and and meet the shadows
[TS]
01:21:45
◼
►
yes melissa gilbert is there which is a
[TS]
01:21:47
◼
►
nice little bit of stunt casting because
[TS]
01:21:49
◼
►
she was married to bruce boxleitner but
[TS]
01:21:51
◼
►
also there's a guy there's like a
[TS]
01:21:54
◼
►
gray-haired guy with a mustache who is
[TS]
01:21:56
◼
►
the most boring guy in the world because
[TS]
01:21:58
◼
►
that's the whole point is heat it's not
[TS]
01:22:00
◼
►
like he's not meeting the grand pooh-bah
[TS]
01:22:03
◼
►
Emperor
[TS]
01:22:04
◼
►
who's some awesome shadow dude he's like
[TS]
01:22:06
◼
►
this board super boring guy because
[TS]
01:22:09
◼
►
that's you know I i love that message
[TS]
01:22:12
◼
►
that you know evil is not super dramatic
[TS]
01:22:14
◼
►
and exciting it's actually kind of
[TS]
01:22:16
◼
►
boring and insidious and and you know it
[TS]
01:22:18
◼
►
it's been all it's not that exciting if
[TS]
01:22:21
◼
►
you look at the flooring and are the
[TS]
01:22:23
◼
►
evil beet with the excitement factor i
[TS]
01:22:26
◼
►
mean if you were to look at this story
[TS]
01:22:28
◼
►
sort of from the outside not knowing any
[TS]
01:22:30
◼
►
of the players and just kind of a really
[TS]
01:22:32
◼
►
black-and-white maybe sort of generic
[TS]
01:22:34
◼
►
fairytale version one of the biggest
[TS]
01:22:36
◼
►
villains and the entire thing would be
[TS]
01:22:37
◼
►
Londo but right when you look at it from
[TS]
01:22:40
◼
►
the inside of the story he is he's one
[TS]
01:22:43
◼
►
of the characters though I at least come
[TS]
01:22:46
◼
►
to love the most yes all of them i mean
[TS]
01:22:48
◼
►
the poor guys gonna have a keeper on his
[TS]
01:22:49
◼
►
you know short so you know yeah this is
[TS]
01:22:52
◼
►
a habit his weekend shifted our
[TS]
01:22:54
◼
►
sympathies towards him a little bit
[TS]
01:22:56
◼
►
knowing this was not gonna end anything
[TS]
01:22:59
◼
►
the way he thought know he was gonna get
[TS]
01:23:00
◼
►
everything he wanted and I can be
[TS]
01:23:02
◼
►
careful what you wish for because you
[TS]
01:23:03
◼
►
might get it and so we got everything
[TS]
01:23:04
◼
►
you wanted but there's definitely a
[TS]
01:23:08
◼
►
certain point where I think students he
[TS]
01:23:10
◼
►
tries to soften the tone of that
[TS]
01:23:13
◼
►
character a little bit so when we see
[TS]
01:23:16
◼
►
the tragic fall we're not going yeah
[TS]
01:23:18
◼
►
he's getting what he deserves we kind of
[TS]
01:23:19
◼
►
feel bad for Mike the guy just made a
[TS]
01:23:21
◼
►
lot of back bad choices that's that's
[TS]
01:23:24
◼
►
where he doesn't he doesn't let us off
[TS]
01:23:26
◼
►
the hook by saying these are the good
[TS]
01:23:27
◼
►
guys these are the bad guys the reason
[TS]
01:23:29
◼
►
why the bad guys are bad is because
[TS]
01:23:30
◼
►
they're evil
[TS]
01:23:31
◼
►
it's no because here we'll walk you in
[TS]
01:23:35
◼
►
all the way through the decision that
[TS]
01:23:37
◼
►
the process that led to Londo ordering
[TS]
01:23:39
◼
►
the destruction of the NAR homeworld we
[TS]
01:23:41
◼
►
will let you and we will put we will
[TS]
01:23:43
◼
►
basically put you in a position where
[TS]
01:23:44
◼
►
you figure out that he felt as though he
[TS]
01:23:46
◼
►
was doing the right thing for his people
[TS]
01:23:48
◼
►
get there in the end this extends in so
[TS]
01:23:51
◼
►
many different directions where you feel
[TS]
01:23:54
◼
►
you feel like that one of the most
[TS]
01:23:56
◼
►
intense moments was when mi watching the
[TS]
01:23:59
◼
►
show was when Garibaldi determines coats
[TS]
01:24:03
◼
►
and hands over Sheridan to Earthforce
[TS]
01:24:05
◼
►
EarthGov and he's and this is before
[TS]
01:24:08
◼
►
this is the episode before we find out
[TS]
01:24:10
◼
►
that he's actually being manipulated and
[TS]
01:24:12
◼
►
but he did but he resents get set it up
[TS]
01:24:14
◼
►
so that he's just a paranoid individual
[TS]
01:24:16
◼
►
to begin with
[TS]
01:24:17
◼
►
he has already established that he
[TS]
01:24:18
◼
►
thinks that's the commander's gone off
[TS]
01:24:20
◼
►
the rails he will do what he thinks is
[TS]
01:24:21
◼
►
right to end the situation and as he's
[TS]
01:24:24
◼
►
sitting there in that even in that that
[TS]
01:24:26
◼
►
subway car on Mars as he's just done
[TS]
01:24:29
◼
►
this me sort of like dealing with the
[TS]
01:24:30
◼
►
fact that i can't believe i guess i'm
[TS]
01:24:32
◼
►
sorry i had to do that but I'm sorry I
[TS]
01:24:33
◼
►
feel like crap and i remember but
[TS]
01:24:35
◼
►
sitting in my chair in my living room
[TS]
01:24:38
◼
►
thinking it because he's an alcoholic
[TS]
01:24:40
◼
►
things we struggling with alcoholism I
[TS]
01:24:43
◼
►
remember thinking why don't you go have
[TS]
01:24:44
◼
►
a drink but because God and then amazed
[TS]
01:24:49
◼
►
that i had that sort of revulsion over
[TS]
01:24:51
◼
►
what he did but again it's not the if we
[TS]
01:24:53
◼
►
had just been introduced to this guy
[TS]
01:24:54
◼
►
who's to serve a weaselly turn Cody type
[TS]
01:24:56
◼
►
of guy and of course he's the person
[TS]
01:24:57
◼
►
who's going to turn them in because he's
[TS]
01:24:59
◼
►
a weasel and he's a turncoat and you
[TS]
01:25:00
◼
►
feel as though no this was unfortunately
[TS]
01:25:02
◼
►
the end of he was he's been boxed into a
[TS]
01:25:05
◼
►
situation which the other two buttons in
[TS]
01:25:07
◼
►
front of them one of them was turning
[TS]
01:25:09
◼
►
shared and the other one was a struggle
[TS]
01:25:12
◼
►
against it and he push the big red
[TS]
01:25:13
◼
►
flashing button and and we know and we
[TS]
01:25:15
◼
►
know that he has his own moral center
[TS]
01:25:17
◼
►
right because again with the you know
[TS]
01:25:19
◼
►
more than stuff you're gonna do this I'm
[TS]
01:25:21
◼
►
out of here
[TS]
01:25:21
◼
►
here's here's my gun here's my badge so
[TS]
01:25:23
◼
►
we've already seen that you know he is
[TS]
01:25:26
◼
►
not going to follow the chain of command
[TS]
01:25:27
◼
►
he's going to stand up and I think you
[TS]
01:25:30
◼
►
know in his own mind he thought he was
[TS]
01:25:32
◼
►
doing the right thing when he handed
[TS]
01:25:33
◼
►
them over and obviously I think you
[TS]
01:25:35
◼
►
learned later on maybe he might have
[TS]
01:25:38
◼
►
been manipulated a little bit
[TS]
01:25:39
◼
►
compare that episode stylistically by
[TS]
01:25:42
◼
►
the way to the to the first season of
[TS]
01:25:44
◼
►
the pilot that episode where where
[TS]
01:25:46
◼
►
Garibaldi cells are shared and has so
[TS]
01:25:49
◼
►
many different stylistic flourishes the
[TS]
01:25:51
◼
►
the Mars subway to bride shows that they
[TS]
01:25:54
◼
►
were real aeration there there yet and
[TS]
01:25:56
◼
►
they've got this is what i doing back on
[TS]
01:25:58
◼
►
Mars right pick up a cgi working right
[TS]
01:26:00
◼
►
and they've got the compositing right so
[TS]
01:26:02
◼
►
it feels much more like you're actually
[TS]
01:26:03
◼
►
there and then the scene work sharon has
[TS]
01:26:06
◼
►
taken is a real and i do believe Star
[TS]
01:26:10
◼
►
Trek started stealing the babylon five
[TS]
01:26:11
◼
►
directors and then they found some
[TS]
01:26:12
◼
►
really good directors that is such it's
[TS]
01:26:14
◼
►
it's it's strobe light they had a still
[TS]
01:26:16
◼
►
photographer on the set and they took
[TS]
01:26:18
◼
►
stills of the action and intercut the
[TS]
01:26:20
◼
►
stills with the live action and it is it
[TS]
01:26:23
◼
►
is i mean it's really good it is not
[TS]
01:26:27
◼
►
necessarily microstates one of the best
[TS]
01:26:29
◼
►
things ever but if they were true
[TS]
01:26:30
◼
►
lying interesting style things which you
[TS]
01:26:33
◼
►
know in season one they're like trying
[TS]
01:26:35
◼
►
to get a show out yet that was not my
[TS]
01:26:37
◼
►
favorite part of it I really thought
[TS]
01:26:38
◼
►
that was just a little too artsy for the
[TS]
01:26:40
◼
►
ship was bravely my training too hard
[TS]
01:26:42
◼
►
but think how far they came from like I
[TS]
01:26:44
◼
►
mean season when they're struggling to
[TS]
01:26:45
◼
►
get like the sets vertical and it was
[TS]
01:26:48
◼
►
not very well I just I just didn't like
[TS]
01:26:51
◼
►
what it did
[TS]
01:26:52
◼
►
yeah I i have to send somebody was like
[TS]
01:26:54
◼
►
hey I've got an idea let's do this and
[TS]
01:26:56
◼
►
get a still photographer in here and
[TS]
01:26:57
◼
►
we'll see how it goes and it is jarring
[TS]
01:26:59
◼
►
to on top of everything else but i love
[TS]
01:27:02
◼
►
that they tried stuff like that because
[TS]
01:27:04
◼
►
it had been they had come so far from
[TS]
01:27:06
◼
►
friends
[TS]
01:27:07
◼
►
that's another thing about this show is
[TS]
01:27:08
◼
►
how how much they got out of so little
[TS]
01:27:11
◼
►
they didn't always have the best actors
[TS]
01:27:14
◼
►
the scripts weren't always the best i
[TS]
01:27:16
◼
►
think you get to the point somewhere
[TS]
01:27:19
◼
►
towards season 4 season 5 where
[TS]
01:27:22
◼
►
stravinsky's fatigue is starting to show
[TS]
01:27:24
◼
►
absolutely and and the line and the law
[TS]
01:27:27
◼
►
he's going for the first right answer
[TS]
01:27:29
◼
►
instead of the second more creative
[TS]
01:27:31
◼
►
right answer in terms of ways of talking
[TS]
01:27:34
◼
►
but there's there's some kind of weird
[TS]
01:27:37
◼
►
alchemy when Jeff Conaway who is not a
[TS]
01:27:40
◼
►
tremendous actor can be an effective
[TS]
01:27:43
◼
►
character uh and and has had some great
[TS]
01:27:46
◼
►
moments there are a claudia christian is
[TS]
01:27:52
◼
►
it just sort of comes out of nowhere
[TS]
01:27:55
◼
►
from being the stripper in hexed to
[TS]
01:27:58
◼
►
being a to being a really formidable uh
[TS]
01:28:04
◼
►
military presence you know they had no
[TS]
01:28:08
◼
►
money they had no consistent schedule
[TS]
01:28:11
◼
►
all they had was the sheer will to get
[TS]
01:28:15
◼
►
the epic to get the show made and uh and
[TS]
01:28:19
◼
►
an army of fans online that we have you
[TS]
01:28:22
◼
►
know this isn't that the incomparable
[TS]
01:28:23
◼
►
written remit as i understand it is the
[TS]
01:28:26
◼
►
show itself and sure enough behind it
[TS]
01:28:28
◼
►
but but you can't talk about Babylon 5
[TS]
01:28:31
◼
►
without talking about records SF TV
[TS]
01:28:33
◼
►
Babylon 5 moderated moderated
[TS]
01:28:36
◼
►
Pastore and and and and all and the the
[TS]
01:28:41
◼
►
the fandom relationship the first first
[TS]
01:28:43
◼
►
show to have a direct back and forth
[TS]
01:28:46
◼
►
with the creator and the fans on the
[TS]
01:28:48
◼
►
internet ask me a question I'll give you
[TS]
01:28:50
◼
►
an answer and you know sometimes that
[TS]
01:28:52
◼
►
won't cause it'll spoil the show but
[TS]
01:28:54
◼
►
i'll try to explain to you what i was
[TS]
01:28:56
◼
►
thinking and amazing it great I mean and
[TS]
01:28:59
◼
►
he managed to make the best and exacts
[TS]
01:29:01
◼
►
characters a good example because you
[TS]
01:29:02
◼
►
were dealing with Bobby from taxi
[TS]
01:29:04
◼
►
I you know I think you know can be great
[TS]
01:29:07
◼
►
man I mean I mean come on
[TS]
01:29:09
◼
►
um but a key light this is why i gotta
[TS]
01:29:12
◼
►
work with i'm gonna i'm gonna try and
[TS]
01:29:14
◼
►
make him like you know a super-soldier
[TS]
01:29:16
◼
►
I'm gonna play you know the rules that
[TS]
01:29:19
◼
►
he knows how to play and make the exact
[TS]
01:29:21
◼
►
that type of character but then there's
[TS]
01:29:23
◼
►
that moment where he takes off the
[TS]
01:29:24
◼
►
armband you know and also like oh you
[TS]
01:29:26
◼
►
know Zach's not just the guys taking 15
[TS]
01:29:29
◼
►
credits from them you know a week from
[TS]
01:29:30
◼
►
tonight watch our he's he also got a
[TS]
01:29:33
◼
►
little bit of backbone he also evolved
[TS]
01:29:35
◼
►
and the fact that he wasn't afraid to
[TS]
01:29:37
◼
►
kill off characters either you know that
[TS]
01:29:40
◼
►
you know people who have been around
[TS]
01:29:41
◼
►
suddenly Oh guy there's a shadow ship by
[TS]
01:29:44
◼
►
better tell someone about it and not
[TS]
01:29:47
◼
►
seeing you anymore max kefir now goodbye
[TS]
01:29:50
◼
►
pretty boy
[TS]
01:29:51
◼
►
so mom was the characters forward to die
[TS]
01:29:54
◼
►
you'll be on for a season what happens
[TS]
01:29:56
◼
►
at the end well first like you're just
[TS]
01:29:58
◼
►
your dad ready sure under your uniform
[TS]
01:30:01
◼
►
and killed by shadows not not not a good
[TS]
01:30:05
◼
►
way to go yeah I mean yeah the budget
[TS]
01:30:07
◼
►
I mean this was this a show with not
[TS]
01:30:09
◼
►
much budget and they got a lot out of it
[TS]
01:30:10
◼
►
and people will look back on it now and
[TS]
01:30:12
◼
►
say well it looks cheap it's like yeah
[TS]
01:30:14
◼
►
yeah it does sort of look cheap but let
[TS]
01:30:17
◼
►
me tell you they they made this thing on
[TS]
01:30:19
◼
►
a shoestring they made this in a
[TS]
01:30:20
◼
►
converted this is where i'm going to do
[TS]
01:30:22
◼
►
my little gloating bit here which is
[TS]
01:30:25
◼
►
they made this in an inverted orange
[TS]
01:30:27
◼
►
orange drink factory in sun valley in
[TS]
01:30:30
◼
►
the in the san fernando valley office on
[TS]
01:30:33
◼
►
valley boulevard i went there when I
[TS]
01:30:36
◼
►
worked at mac user that's how long ago
[TS]
01:30:38
◼
►
was it was 1997 and uh and next door
[TS]
01:30:42
◼
►
there was a some other kind of some
[TS]
01:30:44
◼
►
other kind of a
[TS]
01:30:45
◼
►
food you know service thing and they
[TS]
01:30:48
◼
►
converted one of them into the prop shop
[TS]
01:30:50
◼
►
and the other one was the was the studio
[TS]
01:30:52
◼
►
the studio is again this old factory
[TS]
01:30:54
◼
►
warehouse place out in the valley and
[TS]
01:30:56
◼
►
yeah it was not flush at all it was they
[TS]
01:30:59
◼
►
were they were out where where my
[TS]
01:31:01
◼
►
understanding they were out where the
[TS]
01:31:02
◼
►
porn gets made right they were not they
[TS]
01:31:05
◼
►
were not in Hollywood proper they were
[TS]
01:31:07
◼
►
out in the valley and yet you know they
[TS]
01:31:10
◼
►
you walk inside and you're on Babylon 5
[TS]
01:31:12
◼
►
and there's that forced perspective
[TS]
01:31:13
◼
►
hallway where you see the curve of the
[TS]
01:31:15
◼
►
station in the zocalo and you know it's
[TS]
01:31:17
◼
►
all wood and you know spray-painted and
[TS]
01:31:20
◼
►
it's just good enough to get to get by
[TS]
01:31:22
◼
►
on TV on the tiny TVs of of 1995 I'm and
[TS]
01:31:27
◼
►
was when i was in the commentary on one
[TS]
01:31:29
◼
►
of these episodes we agreed to watch and
[TS]
01:31:31
◼
►
J michael Straczynski points out that
[TS]
01:31:32
◼
►
essentially three different scenes were
[TS]
01:31:35
◼
►
redresses of the scene of the set of
[TS]
01:31:38
◼
►
Sheridan's opposite
[TS]
01:31:40
◼
►
yeah and that's just you know yeah it
[TS]
01:31:42
◼
►
was it was not that bigger asset they
[TS]
01:31:45
◼
►
were there were three or four different
[TS]
01:31:46
◼
►
locations i think it was set up when i
[TS]
01:31:48
◼
►
was there and literally around the
[TS]
01:31:49
◼
►
corner was Trinity's office you could
[TS]
01:31:52
◼
►
literally go around the corner and he
[TS]
01:31:53
◼
►
was in there working on that and in fact
[TS]
01:31:55
◼
►
I didn't get to talk to him because he
[TS]
01:31:57
◼
►
was directing that episode because I was
[TS]
01:31:58
◼
►
there when they were shooting at the
[TS]
01:31:59
◼
►
finale the year before they aired it and
[TS]
01:32:03
◼
►
I got to watch block past Bruce
[TS]
01:32:05
◼
►
Boxleitner dressed in his sort of
[TS]
01:32:07
◼
►
minbari outfit and and my mitt entire
[TS]
01:32:10
◼
►
memory of him was he was like come on
[TS]
01:32:11
◼
►
guys he was like impatient he was
[TS]
01:32:13
◼
►
waiting for them to shoot the scene and
[TS]
01:32:15
◼
►
Joe was somewhere else and all that and
[TS]
01:32:16
◼
►
we couldn't talk to him but it was
[TS]
01:32:18
◼
►
pretty cool there you know there were a
[TS]
01:32:20
◼
►
bunch of minbari extras out back smoking
[TS]
01:32:22
◼
►
cigarettes in the back parking lot
[TS]
01:32:24
◼
►
waiting for their call
[TS]
01:32:25
◼
►
I was it was it was a trip and i still
[TS]
01:32:28
◼
►
have I still have a couple of stickers
[TS]
01:32:30
◼
►
that were they would print out on you
[TS]
01:32:32
◼
►
know on inkjet printers the props
[TS]
01:32:34
◼
►
Department prick print out the stuff on
[TS]
01:32:36
◼
►
stickers and cut them out and stick them
[TS]
01:32:39
◼
►
to the walls and that was like you know
[TS]
01:32:41
◼
►
that was set decoration where these
[TS]
01:32:43
◼
►
stickers and I have a couple of of them
[TS]
01:32:45
◼
►
of them still which is a yeah it was
[TS]
01:32:47
◼
►
pretty it was pretty cool to see that I
[TS]
01:32:49
◼
►
am and I i do have a picture of me at 26
[TS]
01:32:53
◼
►
years old with a clipboard and standing
[TS]
01:32:57
◼
►
in an elevator
[TS]
01:32:59
◼
►
at the elevator doors on Babylon 5 so
[TS]
01:33:01
◼
►
that was pretty cool
[TS]
01:33:02
◼
►
pakistan some that is some good cleaning
[TS]
01:33:04
◼
►
well that is so yeah so thank you and
[TS]
01:33:06
◼
►
thank you and i actually had a couple of
[TS]
01:33:08
◼
►
episodes tech tempat versions of episode
[TS]
01:33:11
◼
►
sent to me by one of the editors we did
[TS]
01:33:13
◼
►
meet the editors who were doing all that
[TS]
01:33:15
◼
►
after effects work and stuff like that
[TS]
01:33:16
◼
►
which is crazy stuff and sought saw Tony
[TS]
01:33:20
◼
►
Dow from Leave It to Beaver who directed
[TS]
01:33:22
◼
►
some of those episodes he was in the act
[TS]
01:33:23
◼
►
of some great one
[TS]
01:33:24
◼
►
he was in the Edit Bay doing doing some
[TS]
01:33:26
◼
►
work there still there's a continuity
[TS]
01:33:27
◼
►
error that i can spot every time I watch
[TS]
01:33:29
◼
►
a certain episode of the fourth season
[TS]
01:33:30
◼
►
because they were they they had a dead
[TS]
01:33:34
◼
►
they didn't have the shots matchup right
[TS]
01:33:35
◼
►
so they flipped the scene so jakar walks
[TS]
01:33:38
◼
►
in from the other direction and but the
[TS]
01:33:40
◼
►
land is wearing the shirt that is
[TS]
01:33:41
◼
►
asymmetrical when every time i watch it
[TS]
01:33:43
◼
►
I'm like that's flipped suddenly it's
[TS]
01:33:45
◼
►
going to her left shoulder now it's back
[TS]
01:33:46
◼
►
to her right shoulder and you'd never
[TS]
01:33:48
◼
►
notice that watching it but i noticed
[TS]
01:33:49
◼
►
every time now is I'm not tell me what
[TS]
01:33:51
◼
►
episode it is i don't know i was there
[TS]
01:33:53
◼
►
when they flipped it was pretty crazy so
[TS]
01:33:55
◼
►
that was that was a those cool
[TS]
01:33:56
◼
►
somebody mentioned in the chat room HD
[TS]
01:34:00
◼
►
version there is a rumor that they might
[TS]
01:34:02
◼
►
eventually do an HD version and then I
[TS]
01:34:04
◼
►
heard a rumor that said that was
[TS]
01:34:05
◼
►
impossible and I i can say something
[TS]
01:34:07
◼
►
about that which is a shot this on film
[TS]
01:34:09
◼
►
and they shot it in widescreen so they
[TS]
01:34:12
◼
►
could release a blu-ray version of or or
[TS]
01:34:15
◼
►
an hd2 downloadable version of Babylon 5
[TS]
01:34:18
◼
►
what they need to do is scan in the
[TS]
01:34:19
◼
►
original film which they probably have
[TS]
01:34:21
◼
►
the problem is as with most of this
[TS]
01:34:24
◼
►
stuff from this period they would have
[TS]
01:34:25
◼
►
to remake the special effects because
[TS]
01:34:27
◼
►
the special effects were done for by
[TS]
01:34:28
◼
►
three and they were done in standard
[TS]
01:34:30
◼
►
death so if if if they ever wanted to
[TS]
01:34:33
◼
►
remake Babylon 5 and sell it in HD they
[TS]
01:34:35
◼
►
would either skin and all the HD film
[TS]
01:34:37
◼
►
and have a special effects look
[TS]
01:34:38
◼
►
atrocious and that isn't just the space
[TS]
01:34:40
◼
►
scenes but it's anything where
[TS]
01:34:42
◼
►
somebody's dubbed on a screen or
[TS]
01:34:43
◼
►
anything had enough as it is and even
[TS]
01:34:45
◼
►
right because on TV because they cut it
[TS]
01:34:47
◼
►
off they have the 16 by 9 and then they
[TS]
01:34:50
◼
►
cut off and blew up the effect so if
[TS]
01:34:52
◼
►
they had to do it they would essentially
[TS]
01:34:54
◼
►
have to rebuild those things like
[TS]
01:34:55
◼
►
they've done with Star Trek The Next
[TS]
01:34:56
◼
►
Generation it might happen i'm skeptical
[TS]
01:34:58
◼
►
that there's enough of a that that were
[TS]
01:35:01
◼
►
brothers is going to think there's
[TS]
01:35:02
◼
►
enough money there but you never know
[TS]
01:35:03
◼
►
what it could do it you know they did a
[TS]
01:35:05
◼
►
bunch of special TV movie episodes of
[TS]
01:35:07
◼
►
Babylon 5 and one of them was called
[TS]
01:35:09
◼
►
third space in which there's a like a
[TS]
01:35:11
◼
►
Jumpgate they
[TS]
01:35:12
◼
►
goes to a strange other dimension that's
[TS]
01:35:15
◼
►
kinda like HP Lovecraft cthulhu
[TS]
01:35:18
◼
►
dimension it's really bad and I mention
[TS]
01:35:20
◼
►
that because third space is not the
[TS]
01:35:23
◼
►
sponsor of this episode instead it's a
[TS]
01:35:26
◼
►
much better space space without
[TS]
01:35:28
◼
►
murderous cthulhu like monsters in it
[TS]
01:35:30
◼
►
it's Squarespace that's right we are
[TS]
01:35:33
◼
►
sponsored by Squarespace the all-in-one
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01:35:35
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01:35:37
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they've won numerous design awards
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they've won numerous customer support
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on their customer care team it's based
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in New York City they call themselves
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01:36:06
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the carebear layer if you can't remember
[TS]
01:36:08
◼
►
the care bear was a villainous alien in
[TS]
01:36:12
◼
►
at first season episode of Babylon 5
[TS]
01:36:14
◼
►
I don't really want to get into it it
[TS]
01:36:16
◼
►
scarred me to this day
[TS]
01:36:17
◼
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so you're saying to yourself how much
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01:36:19
◼
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for award-winning design award winning
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01:36:23
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customer support
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01:36:24
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Squarespace must cost a fortune and it
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01:36:27
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doesn't it doesn't it really doesn't it
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build your website you sign up with
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it's my last name
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you should know that by now for pete's
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don't you know that my name is Jason
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Snell now you do use smel as your code
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and you get ten percent off
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Squarespace Squarespace is everything
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you need to create an exceptional
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card necessary you're going to like it
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and then you're going to put in code
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much to Squarespace
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sponsoring not only every podcast known
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to man but finally for sponsoring the
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uncomfortable
[TS]
01:37:31
◼
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we appreciate it there's also a lot of
[TS]
01:37:34
◼
►
work that has to be done to clean up the
[TS]
01:37:35
◼
►
film you almost need the doctor
[TS]
01:37:37
◼
►
restoration team on it because the city
[TS]
01:37:40
◼
►
beach it's very dirty the film had
[TS]
01:37:42
◼
►
deteriorated and deteriorated of fair
[TS]
01:37:45
◼
►
bit before they decided to make the dvds
[TS]
01:37:49
◼
►
and you can see on great you can see the
[TS]
01:37:51
◼
►
the the the dust on it even now but they
[TS]
01:37:54
◼
►
could do it so if they wanted to they
[TS]
01:37:56
◼
►
want to put the money in they could do
[TS]
01:37:57
◼
►
it in the fact is with the special
[TS]
01:38:00
◼
►
effects technologies cheap it is as it
[TS]
01:38:01
◼
►
is now it would be a lot I mean the fact
[TS]
01:38:03
◼
►
that there's a very small team at CBS
[TS]
01:38:05
◼
►
digital that's doing season by season of
[TS]
01:38:07
◼
►
star trek the next generation you know
[TS]
01:38:09
◼
►
somebody could do it they would just
[TS]
01:38:11
◼
►
need to put you know put in the money
[TS]
01:38:13
◼
►
and do the calculation to see if they
[TS]
01:38:14
◼
►
get their money back i think of in a
[TS]
01:38:15
◼
►
long-term having a it's like having
[TS]
01:38:18
◼
►
black-and-white when everybody's got
[TS]
01:38:20
◼
►
color in the end you're not going to be
[TS]
01:38:21
◼
►
able to sell it anywhere if you don't
[TS]
01:38:22
◼
►
have an HD version of it the the other
[TS]
01:38:24
◼
►
advantage that the star trek people have
[TS]
01:38:26
◼
►
is that they it was they were doing
[TS]
01:38:28
◼
►
model shots that were really expensive
[TS]
01:38:29
◼
►
to do so really all they have to do is
[TS]
01:38:32
◼
►
render that one stock shot I'm gonna
[TS]
01:38:34
◼
►
love the enterprise gliding through
[TS]
01:38:35
◼
►
every single effect shot of spot if they
[TS]
01:38:38
◼
►
have to read choreograph everything is
[TS]
01:38:40
◼
►
none of those files are going to be any
[TS]
01:38:42
◼
►
yeah in fact they lost the files they
[TS]
01:38:43
◼
►
that's one of the funny stories when
[TS]
01:38:45
◼
►
they did the deed direct-to-dvd sequel
[TS]
01:38:48
◼
►
they used fans models of the spaceships
[TS]
01:38:51
◼
►
because warner brothers lost the files
[TS]
01:38:54
◼
►
on the monitor the current which would
[TS]
01:38:56
◼
►
be no good now anyway for a PhD level
[TS]
01:38:58
◼
►
kind of record I think we're just going
[TS]
01:39:00
◼
►
to see things as as they are i don't
[TS]
01:39:02
◼
►
think it's going to go anywhere
[TS]
01:39:03
◼
►
it's ok but it-it-it but the thing that
[TS]
01:39:06
◼
►
bothers me about that is you don't see
[TS]
01:39:08
◼
►
Babylon 5 on on cable anymore because in
[TS]
01:39:13
◼
►
part because the source material is just
[TS]
01:39:16
◼
►
not up to modern age and standards are I
[TS]
01:39:18
◼
►
want more people to watch Babylon 5
[TS]
01:39:21
◼
►
it is a period is a seminal show it is
[TS]
01:39:24
◼
►
it is it is so important to the to the
[TS]
01:39:29
◼
►
legacy of the arc driven stories that we
[TS]
01:39:32
◼
►
get on television today all the
[TS]
01:39:34
◼
►
chainmail choose your house is not all
[TS]
01:39:36
◼
►
those two thousand zark based sci-fi
[TS]
01:39:39
◼
►
this is where it all started this is
[TS]
01:39:41
◼
►
yeah Buffy Buffy was just starting when
[TS]
01:39:43
◼
►
Babylon 5 was in its fourth season
[TS]
01:39:45
◼
►
I mean and you start it all into the
[TS]
01:39:47
◼
►
2000s when you started to see this stuff
[TS]
01:39:50
◼
►
that really an even star trek was
[TS]
01:39:51
◼
►
influenced the latter years of deep
[TS]
01:39:53
◼
►
space nine with those those Dominion War
[TS]
01:39:55
◼
►
arcs I mean that would not have happened
[TS]
01:39:57
◼
►
without Babylon 5 i'm sorry it would not
[TS]
01:39:59
◼
►
have happened
[TS]
01:40:00
◼
►
absolutely boise on by the way are our
[TS]
01:40:04
◼
►
friend of the friend of the podcast mine
[TS]
01:40:05
◼
►
says that that what he's heard through
[TS]
01:40:08
◼
►
his very good Hollywood connections is
[TS]
01:40:10
◼
►
that Warner Brothers does have the right
[TS]
01:40:12
◼
►
film elements to remaster it and the
[TS]
01:40:14
◼
►
gross transfers that we see on DVD or
[TS]
01:40:15
◼
►
not representative of the film that they
[TS]
01:40:17
◼
►
could actually do a pretty good job you
[TS]
01:40:20
◼
►
know but they would have to put the
[TS]
01:40:21
◼
►
money in and that's always the question
[TS]
01:40:23
◼
►
so if Warner Brothers wants to do it and
[TS]
01:40:26
◼
►
you know they're remastering Batman
[TS]
01:40:28
◼
►
right now the baby out of west batman
[TS]
01:40:30
◼
►
first but but maybe they'll get to it
[TS]
01:40:32
◼
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because we just need to get more people
[TS]
01:40:33
◼
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watching babylon 5 and excited about
[TS]
01:40:35
◼
►
what shapes our podcast has a goal yes
[TS]
01:40:38
◼
►
exactly yeah it does and and honestly if
[TS]
01:40:40
◼
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your if your TV you know your TV studio
[TS]
01:40:44
◼
►
your movie studio you've got this stuff
[TS]
01:40:45
◼
►
that's that can be HD and it's not yet
[TS]
01:40:48
◼
►
at some point it makes sense to to
[TS]
01:40:50
◼
►
convert that stuff because it won't be
[TS]
01:40:53
◼
►
sellable in any way in standard death
[TS]
01:40:56
◼
►
but you've gotta film master right there
[TS]
01:40:57
◼
►
so put in the money and figure that over
[TS]
01:40:59
◼
►
20 years you're going to get your money
[TS]
01:41:00
◼
►
back with a profit and hopefully they'll
[TS]
01:41:02
◼
►
do that with this so so I've got one
[TS]
01:41:05
◼
►
more point but but that I wanted to drop
[TS]
01:41:07
◼
►
before we talk about your podcast
[TS]
01:41:09
◼
►
briefly because I do want to promote
[TS]
01:41:10
◼
►
your podcast and it's something is one
[TS]
01:41:13
◼
►
of these things is joseph kosinski has
[TS]
01:41:15
◼
►
proven to be to have some very
[TS]
01:41:17
◼
►
interesting timing about some of his his
[TS]
01:41:20
◼
►
his uh his work and how art imitates
[TS]
01:41:24
◼
►
life and life imitates art I think most
[TS]
01:41:27
◼
►
interesting is that he and chris carter
[TS]
01:41:28
◼
►
of the x-files were working on a series
[TS]
01:41:31
◼
►
that didn't come to be because it handle
[TS]
01:41:34
◼
►
it was called I think the world on fire
[TS]
01:41:35
◼
►
and it was basically about a a terrorist
[TS]
01:41:39
◼
►
style incident that caused a dramatic
[TS]
01:41:42
◼
►
changes in how countries on on earth
[TS]
01:41:46
◼
►
reacted to things and then 911 happened
[TS]
01:41:48
◼
►
and they couldn't do that show anymore
[TS]
01:41:50
◼
►
because it was basically it
[TS]
01:41:53
◼
►
happened and i wanted to mention 911
[TS]
01:41:55
◼
►
because i think actually a lot of what
[TS]
01:41:58
◼
►
Straczynski saying about human nature
[TS]
01:42:00
◼
►
and the nature of people and governments
[TS]
01:42:03
◼
►
and how we react to to threats and how
[TS]
01:42:06
◼
►
we the the greatest risk to society's is
[TS]
01:42:09
◼
►
when they put under some pressure and
[TS]
01:42:11
◼
►
you have to see those decisions that
[TS]
01:42:12
◼
►
they make and some of the stuff that's
[TS]
01:42:14
◼
►
in Babylon 5 is way more weighty
[TS]
01:42:17
◼
►
post-911 than it was pretty 911 and the
[TS]
01:42:21
◼
►
two examples i wanted to give were one
[TS]
01:42:22
◼
►
we talked about which is the torture of
[TS]
01:42:24
◼
►
sheridan which has a lot more residents
[TS]
01:42:27
◼
►
now since we know what waterboarding is
[TS]
01:42:29
◼
►
and things like that but the one that
[TS]
01:42:32
◼
►
really gets me is when to lend tells the
[TS]
01:42:34
◼
►
story of how the earth-minbari war
[TS]
01:42:35
◼
►
started which we've been seeing in the
[TS]
01:42:37
◼
►
beginning which is their leader gets
[TS]
01:42:39
◼
►
killed and she says we all went mad and
[TS]
01:42:43
◼
►
we and that's why we started the war and
[TS]
01:42:45
◼
►
it was against all of our principles but
[TS]
01:42:48
◼
►
we were we were so incensed by the
[TS]
01:42:50
◼
►
single act that it drove us crazy and we
[TS]
01:42:52
◼
►
did lots of things that I regret now and
[TS]
01:42:54
◼
►
I gotta say I think about i think about
[TS]
01:42:56
◼
►
that when I think about what happened
[TS]
01:42:58
◼
►
after 911 and some of the extreme
[TS]
01:43:00
◼
►
reactions and some of the wars that got
[TS]
01:43:02
◼
►
started that think another another
[TS]
01:43:04
◼
►
notable is its I cork sort of coming out
[TS]
01:43:07
◼
►
of the dilgar war you know we've we've
[TS]
01:43:09
◼
►
got not necessarily that i'm not saying
[TS]
01:43:12
◼
►
that the Department of Homeland Security
[TS]
01:43:13
◼
►
is it's better if I go but I'm just
[TS]
01:43:16
◼
►
saying you know it'sit's another anti
[TS]
01:43:17
◼
►
just en este video there's there's a lot
[TS]
01:43:19
◼
►
of that you're not with us you're
[TS]
01:43:21
◼
►
against us that's out there even wardens
[TS]
01:43:24
◼
►
interrogation you know where he says
[TS]
01:43:26
◼
►
you're dead as far as everyone knows no
[TS]
01:43:28
◼
►
one knows where you are
[TS]
01:43:30
◼
►
no one's ever gonna see you again maybe
[TS]
01:43:32
◼
►
you want to tell me something you know
[TS]
01:43:35
◼
►
so he definitely export a lot of those
[TS]
01:43:38
◼
►
things he explored patriotism quite a
[TS]
01:43:41
◼
►
oh yeah the show as one of the themes
[TS]
01:43:43
◼
►
Sheridan is Patriot you know
[TS]
01:43:45
◼
►
particularly in no surrender no retreat
[TS]
01:43:49
◼
►
no he's he's touring III don't want to
[TS]
01:43:53
◼
►
fire on these guys in my buddies
[TS]
01:43:55
◼
►
yeah but i'm going to you stand down or
[TS]
01:43:57
◼
►
be destroyed then sometimes the
[TS]
01:43:59
◼
►
government will give you illegal orders
[TS]
01:44:01
◼
►
and a good soldier has to know that you
[TS]
01:44:03
◼
►
can follow illegal orders right i mean
[TS]
01:44:05
◼
►
and it's not like this is rocket science
[TS]
01:44:06
◼
►
he's looking back at the history of
[TS]
01:44:08
◼
►
humanity and and even of the 20th
[TS]
01:44:11
◼
►
century and saying this stuff happened
[TS]
01:44:12
◼
►
before and it can happen again
[TS]
01:44:14
◼
►
I'm not to get all battlestar galactica
[TS]
01:44:16
◼
►
on you but his write his report yet but
[TS]
01:44:18
◼
►
his but his look when the ship blows up
[TS]
01:44:21
◼
►
in the White Star go to your apartment
[TS]
01:44:23
◼
►
crashes into its gonna get some like
[TS]
01:44:25
◼
►
books get some lifeboats oh yeah and
[TS]
01:44:27
◼
►
these guys are trying to kill 10 seconds
[TS]
01:44:29
◼
►
earlier he gets the lifeboats and when
[TS]
01:44:31
◼
►
the thing blows up that look on his face
[TS]
01:44:32
◼
►
like why did you make me do that
[TS]
01:44:35
◼
►
yeah I didn't want to do that but i had
[TS]
01:44:37
◼
►
to do that because that's what
[TS]
01:44:39
◼
►
patriotism calls for and Garibaldi
[TS]
01:44:41
◼
►
you're taking exact thing I can't handle
[TS]
01:44:44
◼
►
being around you because you're just
[TS]
01:44:46
◼
►
taking things into your own hands and we
[TS]
01:44:48
◼
►
have procedures to do this and you know
[TS]
01:44:52
◼
►
we see with the Len on the hand in hers
[TS]
01:44:55
◼
►
Londo you know all the all the way
[TS]
01:44:58
◼
►
through the series he his defenses that
[TS]
01:45:00
◼
►
I am a patriot I was doing what has to
[TS]
01:45:02
◼
►
be done and when even when he has to
[TS]
01:45:04
◼
►
turn ee to have to turn against his own
[TS]
01:45:07
◼
►
government when he realizes that oh my
[TS]
01:45:08
◼
►
god might have the Emperor is insane
[TS]
01:45:10
◼
►
we have to get rid of them he's trying
[TS]
01:45:13
◼
►
to do now is to create a new coalition
[TS]
01:45:14
◼
►
and he says Devere that i needed i need
[TS]
01:45:16
◼
►
the Patriot i'll need a friend you are
[TS]
01:45:19
◼
►
both and that's that that's the seeds of
[TS]
01:45:21
◼
►
finally getting with Emperor everyone
[TS]
01:45:24
◼
►
believes that every police are doing
[TS]
01:45:25
◼
►
what they're doing for the greater good
[TS]
01:45:26
◼
►
of their community of community of which
[TS]
01:45:28
◼
►
they have incredible amount of pride
[TS]
01:45:30
◼
►
they would lay down their own lives for
[TS]
01:45:31
◼
►
and sometimes that turns into zealot
[TS]
01:45:34
◼
►
Reeve air easily everyone thinks their
[TS]
01:45:37
◼
►
morality is a hundred percent correct
[TS]
01:45:38
◼
►
and that whole flip from the beginning
[TS]
01:45:40
◼
►
where you know the Centauri are sort of
[TS]
01:45:43
◼
►
these downtrodden you know Bulls
[TS]
01:45:47
◼
►
buffoons and then by the time we get to
[TS]
01:45:49
◼
►
you know you know in the second episode
[TS]
01:45:52
◼
►
we talked about everything is turned
[TS]
01:45:54
◼
►
you know all of a sudden are on the run
[TS]
01:45:57
◼
►
will have admittedly what happened to
[TS]
01:45:58
◼
►
these people and then the Rangers
[TS]
01:46:01
◼
►
loyalty their holy do we live for the
[TS]
01:46:03
◼
►
one we die for the one again you know
[TS]
01:46:07
◼
►
patriotism
[TS]
01:46:08
◼
►
we're here to serve we're not here to
[TS]
01:46:10
◼
►
ask questions
[TS]
01:46:11
◼
►
whatever the crazy mission is that's
[TS]
01:46:13
◼
►
what we're here to do how about that
[TS]
01:46:15
◼
►
carry the character arts for characters
[TS]
01:46:16
◼
►
like maroon who is a patriot and comes
[TS]
01:46:21
◼
►
around to who he's too who he's going to
[TS]
01:46:24
◼
►
serve in the end you know who do you
[TS]
01:46:26
◼
►
serve as a big question here and and
[TS]
01:46:30
◼
►
again there's there's so much in this
[TS]
01:46:33
◼
►
show about a personal about personal
[TS]
01:46:36
◼
►
responsibility that's one of the reasons
[TS]
01:46:38
◼
►
i love it so much
[TS]
01:46:40
◼
►
even President Clark you know is i think
[TS]
01:46:42
◼
►
it's an evil character is he is you know
[TS]
01:46:45
◼
►
who took over also an all in all evil
[TS]
01:46:49
◼
►
right he's drinking out of a fat white
[TS]
01:46:51
◼
►
bold guy he was just just carrying on
[TS]
01:46:54
◼
►
the legacy right in basically going back
[TS]
01:46:58
◼
►
to midnight on the firing line here with
[TS]
01:47:00
◼
►
the whole presidential election is going
[TS]
01:47:01
◼
►
on in the background and it's all about
[TS]
01:47:03
◼
►
President Santiago you know pledging
[TS]
01:47:06
◼
►
that earth isn't going to be easy Oh
[TS]
01:47:08
◼
►
patrolling the police wars when we're
[TS]
01:47:12
◼
►
gonna get back and it's sort of like you
[TS]
01:47:14
◼
►
know background father and I think
[TS]
01:47:15
◼
►
talked to said you know these guys
[TS]
01:47:16
◼
►
aren't doing enough where we're staying
[TS]
01:47:18
◼
►
out of this we don't want to get
[TS]
01:47:19
◼
►
involved and that's what's best for
[TS]
01:47:21
◼
►
earth right now we've already before
[TS]
01:47:23
◼
►
enough for and then in the last episode
[TS]
01:47:25
◼
►
of the first season that there is a you
[TS]
01:47:26
◼
►
know Kennedy assassination level thing
[TS]
01:47:29
◼
►
right down to the earth force one shot
[TS]
01:47:31
◼
►
that is a like everybody is posed like
[TS]
01:47:33
◼
►
the the Johnson swearing impose on fs1
[TS]
01:47:38
◼
►
after the Kennedy assassination wow
[TS]
01:47:40
◼
►
amazing everything everything there was
[TS]
01:47:42
◼
►
always thought that episode again try to
[TS]
01:47:45
◼
►
be a little overly dramatic it's like
[TS]
01:47:49
◼
►
Oh only we could reach them in time and
[TS]
01:47:51
◼
►
warn them and oh I figured out who the
[TS]
01:47:53
◼
►
traitor is before he shoots me in the
[TS]
01:47:55
◼
►
back and oh if only I hadn't gone in the
[TS]
01:47:58
◼
►
cocoon that's it but still but still
[TS]
01:48:00
◼
►
that is a really good at that it was
[TS]
01:48:02
◼
►
like oh it's all coming
[TS]
01:48:03
◼
►
I can't believe it's a cliffhanger and
[TS]
01:48:05
◼
►
then it wasn't on again for like a
[TS]
01:48:06
◼
►
billion years after it was literally a
[TS]
01:48:09
◼
►
billion they kept showing the rear and
[TS]
01:48:11
◼
►
the same five episodes for like a year
[TS]
01:48:14
◼
►
and there we go finally there's new
[TS]
01:48:16
◼
►
episodes i could probably recite the
[TS]
01:48:18
◼
►
episode hunter maria by memory
[TS]
01:48:21
◼
►
hit that no one else on left is how the
[TS]
01:48:24
◼
►
narrative of the show changed every
[TS]
01:48:26
◼
►
season you know our last best hope for
[TS]
01:48:30
◼
►
our last best hope for victory yes I was
[TS]
01:48:33
◼
►
gonna mention that picture and
[TS]
01:48:34
◼
►
everything in between the change the
[TS]
01:48:35
◼
►
opening credits every year every year
[TS]
01:48:37
◼
►
and kind of moving with a ball around
[TS]
01:48:39
◼
►
yes season of hope season the fitness
[TS]
01:48:42
◼
►
season when we took back what is off but
[TS]
01:48:44
◼
►
i actually the one that kills me as the
[TS]
01:48:46
◼
►
after two years of the Babylon project
[TS]
01:48:48
◼
►
was our last best hope for peace in
[TS]
01:48:50
◼
►
season three we got it failed didn't
[TS]
01:48:53
◼
►
have one star favorite shoes on another
[TS]
01:48:55
◼
►
and it's like what what just what is
[TS]
01:48:57
◼
►
that and of course that hadn't that's
[TS]
01:48:59
◼
►
also prefiguring the civil war that
[TS]
01:49:01
◼
►
hadn't happened yet and just there's
[TS]
01:49:03
◼
►
some really really nice nice things
[TS]
01:49:05
◼
►
they're just waiting for that shoe to
[TS]
01:49:06
◼
►
drop it wasn't feeling in the back
[TS]
01:49:08
◼
►
speakers for watching a Babylon 5 was
[TS]
01:49:10
◼
►
that even mean
[TS]
01:49:11
◼
►
yes the code name or something now it
[TS]
01:49:13
◼
►
turns out there are other four and you
[TS]
01:49:15
◼
►
can ask for long
[TS]
01:49:16
◼
►
I also move that that was burned down
[TS]
01:49:18
◼
►
fell over then second of the SWAT but
[TS]
01:49:20
◼
►
the fifth station state old and I also
[TS]
01:49:22
◼
►
know that the narration is always in the
[TS]
01:49:24
◼
►
past tense of that is telling us the
[TS]
01:49:26
◼
►
story this is you know the story of the
[TS]
01:49:28
◼
►
mass of the Babylon stations itself from
[TS]
01:49:31
◼
►
the future always right you know what
[TS]
01:49:33
◼
►
always right you know let me tell you i
[TS]
01:49:35
◼
►
got a great story to tell you kids also
[TS]
01:49:39
◼
►
it is isn't it great the way that he
[TS]
01:49:41
◼
►
could always play against our
[TS]
01:49:42
◼
►
expectations where we've seen the video
[TS]
01:49:44
◼
►
but it's been like a recurring thing all
[TS]
01:49:46
◼
►
here is what the Babylon 5 station looks
[TS]
01:49:48
◼
►
like when it's being exploded in the
[TS]
01:49:49
◼
►
middle of space and we know that that's
[TS]
01:49:52
◼
►
going to be the build-up that's how
[TS]
01:49:53
◼
►
Babylon 5 ends and we're thinking all
[TS]
01:49:55
◼
►
there's a great war they have to like
[TS]
01:49:56
◼
►
initiate the self-destruct sequence is
[TS]
01:49:58
◼
►
like know it lives up to its purpose
[TS]
01:50:01
◼
►
purpose and some of the future
[TS]
01:50:02
◼
►
it was detonated purposefully as a
[TS]
01:50:04
◼
►
hazard to navigation by joseph kosinski
[TS]
01:50:05
◼
►
demolition like the dude like the dunes
[TS]
01:50:08
◼
►
result in Las Vegas they just didn't
[TS]
01:50:10
◼
►
want to do even when he showed his hand
[TS]
01:50:13
◼
►
but what was gonna happen it didn't ruin
[TS]
01:50:15
◼
►
the story because you didn't know how it
[TS]
01:50:17
◼
►
got there and you didn't know what
[TS]
01:50:19
◼
►
events we're going to lead them there
[TS]
01:50:20
◼
►
and what those events really meant
[TS]
01:50:22
◼
►
someone hand you sort of like yeah he's
[TS]
01:50:24
◼
►
done spoilers in the middle and it takes
[TS]
01:50:26
◼
►
a really good right
[TS]
01:50:28
◼
►
to pull that off to spoil something
[TS]
01:50:30
◼
►
right in the middle of the arc and give
[TS]
01:50:33
◼
►
everything away and still have you
[TS]
01:50:35
◼
►
feeling okay okay i know what happens
[TS]
01:50:38
◼
►
but how did that happen like when they
[TS]
01:50:40
◼
►
can spoil a delenn's transformation in
[TS]
01:50:42
◼
►
the opening credits of of season two you
[TS]
01:50:44
◼
►
see your picture with hair and you're
[TS]
01:50:46
◼
►
like what
[TS]
01:50:47
◼
►
um okay I guess I know what she's gonna
[TS]
01:50:48
◼
►
look like when she comes out of the
[TS]
01:50:50
◼
►
Christmas they actually didn't do that
[TS]
01:50:51
◼
►
on the original airing oh did they see
[TS]
01:50:53
◼
►
this is the kind of thing I wouldn't
[TS]
01:50:55
◼
►
have known and engineering the captain
[TS]
01:50:57
◼
►
but I was too busy going what the hell
[TS]
01:50:59
◼
►
is the guy from Sacramento scarecrow
[TS]
01:51:01
◼
►
galaxy right now I'm not mad at them for
[TS]
01:51:04
◼
►
put on the DVD yeah they like took a
[TS]
01:51:06
◼
►
single one out
[TS]
01:51:07
◼
►
retired they were they there they were
[TS]
01:51:09
◼
►
sort of they actually played up that you
[TS]
01:51:11
◼
►
know her coming out of the cocoon pretty
[TS]
01:51:13
◼
►
oh I always thought that she just got
[TS]
01:51:16
◼
►
hard being in the makeup and she went to
[TS]
01:51:17
◼
►
look you want me on the show I gotta
[TS]
01:51:18
◼
►
look like a normal person personally is
[TS]
01:51:20
◼
►
that the reason that she looks so
[TS]
01:51:22
◼
►
different in the in the in the pilot
[TS]
01:51:24
◼
►
movie is that what they were going to do
[TS]
01:51:25
◼
►
is process her voice the entire first
[TS]
01:51:26
◼
►
season and say that Dylan was male and
[TS]
01:51:28
◼
►
Wendell n comes out of the cocoon season
[TS]
01:51:31
◼
►
it was in Berlin was going to have
[TS]
01:51:33
◼
►
transformed not only into part human but
[TS]
01:51:35
◼
►
into female and that was going to be
[TS]
01:51:36
◼
►
like wow you blew my mind and then they
[TS]
01:51:38
◼
►
did the test with mira furlan voice and
[TS]
01:51:41
◼
►
it sounded really bad and fake and
[TS]
01:51:42
◼
►
they're like a forget it but that's why
[TS]
01:51:44
◼
►
her makeup looks much more androgynous
[TS]
01:51:46
◼
►
in the in the in the pilot movie and
[TS]
01:51:49
◼
►
whereas in the first season they just
[TS]
01:51:50
◼
►
had to be she's female but she's you
[TS]
01:51:52
◼
►
know she's not all kind of big chin and
[TS]
01:51:55
◼
►
stuff like they had they had done in the
[TS]
01:51:57
◼
►
yeah it's great crazy that would have
[TS]
01:51:59
◼
►
been a real mind-blower but they just
[TS]
01:52:00
◼
►
couldn't get the voice to work right and
[TS]
01:52:02
◼
►
they decided they didn't want her to you
[TS]
01:52:04
◼
►
know be unintelligibly modified voice
[TS]
01:52:07
◼
►
that for a whole year and now you know
[TS]
01:52:09
◼
►
why she just hosted Garibaldi up like a
[TS]
01:52:11
◼
►
sack of potatoes over her shoulders in
[TS]
01:52:13
◼
►
that pilot movie
[TS]
01:52:14
◼
►
yeah we were supposed to yeah that was
[TS]
01:52:16
◼
►
supposed to be a male character who
[TS]
01:52:18
◼
►
turns female in the cocoon but you know
[TS]
01:52:20
◼
►
instead she just grew hair and had lots
[TS]
01:52:23
◼
►
of a bone you know but still you know
[TS]
01:52:25
◼
►
and changes i really i I really wonder
[TS]
01:52:27
◼
►
how I would have reacted to that if that
[TS]
01:52:30
◼
►
if that had that they'd actually pull
[TS]
01:52:32
◼
►
that off
[TS]
01:52:33
◼
►
I don't know if that would have been a
[TS]
01:52:34
◼
►
little bit too much for me i don't
[TS]
01:52:37
◼
►
clearly J michael Straczynski would have
[TS]
01:52:40
◼
►
certainly the
[TS]
01:52:42
◼
►
he was certainly have done it now let's
[TS]
01:52:44
◼
►
let's let's take a moment to accept that
[TS]
01:52:47
◼
►
that the this man has transitioned into
[TS]
01:52:50
◼
►
female let's take that seriously not
[TS]
01:52:52
◼
►
pretend we won't we won't deal with this
[TS]
01:52:54
◼
►
the same way that star trekt out with
[TS]
01:52:55
◼
►
the fact that hey where we all like
[TS]
01:52:57
◼
►
weasels and frogs and ferrets like for
[TS]
01:53:00
◼
►
entire episode that one time up
[TS]
01:53:01
◼
►
who cares so it's it's it's interesting
[TS]
01:53:04
◼
►
it's interesting to think of how many
[TS]
01:53:06
◼
►
episodes that would have taken for me to
[TS]
01:53:08
◼
►
24 effort for me to integrate that would
[TS]
01:53:13
◼
►
have been it's such an interesting twist
[TS]
01:53:15
◼
►
yeah I think he probably realized you
[TS]
01:53:17
◼
►
know what I I got too much going on I
[TS]
01:53:20
◼
►
don't you have that I think that's what
[TS]
01:53:21
◼
►
I don't think I mean any been and he was
[TS]
01:53:23
◼
►
smart enough to know that it was time to
[TS]
01:53:25
◼
►
go back that down that as that
[TS]
01:53:28
◼
►
transitioning from from from minbari to
[TS]
01:53:33
◼
►
human would not have been a big enough
[TS]
01:53:35
◼
►
think it also has to be trans for
[TS]
01:53:37
◼
►
transmitting from male member re to
[TS]
01:53:40
◼
►
female human it's it seems like to too
[TS]
01:53:43
◼
►
much gloss too much to which for all I
[TS]
01:53:45
◼
►
suspect that listening to the voice
[TS]
01:53:47
◼
►
treatments made him rethink whether he
[TS]
01:53:49
◼
►
wanted to go that far and that it wasn't
[TS]
01:53:51
◼
►
just that but that's what that story and
[TS]
01:53:53
◼
►
that's why the makeup was built that way
[TS]
01:53:54
◼
►
anyway I we are we are running a very
[TS]
01:53:59
◼
►
long although you know we gotta run
[TS]
01:54:00
◼
►
another five-year show guys we gotta you
[TS]
01:54:03
◼
►
know we got its double sized and and of
[TS]
01:54:06
◼
►
you know you get you're getting your
[TS]
01:54:08
◼
►
money's worth this week i want to
[TS]
01:54:10
◼
►
mention before we go and maybe we can go
[TS]
01:54:12
◼
►
around if everybody has an episode they
[TS]
01:54:14
◼
►
want to mention is a particular
[TS]
01:54:15
◼
►
favourite we could do that before we go
[TS]
01:54:16
◼
►
really quickly I as an episode we
[TS]
01:54:18
◼
►
haven't mentioned that is perhaps my
[TS]
01:54:20
◼
►
favorite if not it's one of my favorite
[TS]
01:54:22
◼
►
Babylon 5 episodes and it's not a narc
[TS]
01:54:23
◼
►
driven episode at all
[TS]
01:54:25
◼
►
it's called confessions and lamentations
[TS]
01:54:27
◼
►
and it's about a fatal disease that
[TS]
01:54:30
◼
►
strikes a population of aliens and
[TS]
01:54:31
◼
►
there's a panic on the ship and it's
[TS]
01:54:33
◼
►
just a beautifully sad dark story about
[TS]
01:54:36
◼
►
this horrible the spread of this
[TS]
01:54:39
◼
►
horrible disease there are some aids
[TS]
01:54:41
◼
►
parallels in there that are uh are very
[TS]
01:54:45
◼
►
hard to watch and touching and and
[TS]
01:54:49
◼
►
beautiful and delenn goes inside where
[TS]
01:54:52
◼
►
the where the mark a bar
[TS]
01:54:55
◼
►
are dying and takes care of them they
[TS]
01:54:57
◼
►
failed they're looking to lock them away
[TS]
01:54:59
◼
►
and she goes with with them and it's
[TS]
01:55:01
◼
►
beautiful and that's that's maybe my
[TS]
01:55:03
◼
►
favorite episode
[TS]
01:55:04
◼
►
even though it has nothing to do with an
[TS]
01:55:05
◼
►
arc I think it's a wonderful wonderful
[TS]
01:55:06
◼
►
episode and it doesn't again we blew the
[TS]
01:55:09
◼
►
spoil of war and they all died
[TS]
01:55:11
◼
►
no they don't save the day they all died
[TS]
01:55:14
◼
►
it's terrible and also get this was a
[TS]
01:55:16
◼
►
major alien we even have been seen in
[TS]
01:55:19
◼
►
every episode but our then it wasn't
[TS]
01:55:21
◼
►
like they made up this race they had a
[TS]
01:55:22
◼
►
set fire to like a hundred masks yeah
[TS]
01:55:25
◼
►
and wardrobes because you doing
[TS]
01:55:27
◼
►
yeah maybe a few of them survived
[TS]
01:55:29
◼
►
anybody else want to mention a favorite
[TS]
01:55:31
◼
►
episode before we before we wrap it up
[TS]
01:55:32
◼
►
height i will i'm gonna go for one
[TS]
01:55:35
◼
►
that's I mean it
[TS]
01:55:36
◼
►
maybe it's an easy pick but the
[TS]
01:55:38
◼
►
deconstruction of falling stars is
[TS]
01:55:40
◼
►
justic kind of an amazing episode of
[TS]
01:55:42
◼
►
television i found that it was the sort
[TS]
01:55:45
◼
►
of most magnificent and satisfying
[TS]
01:55:47
◼
►
wrap-up I've ever seen of a story I
[TS]
01:55:50
◼
►
think on television maybe the only thing
[TS]
01:55:52
◼
►
that comes close would be like the last
[TS]
01:55:53
◼
►
15 minutes of the last episode of six
[TS]
01:55:55
◼
►
feet under which honestly isn't one of
[TS]
01:55:57
◼
►
my favorite shows but i really enjoyed
[TS]
01:55:58
◼
►
the way that they closed up that show
[TS]
01:56:00
◼
►
and this was it gave an epilogue but it
[TS]
01:56:04
◼
►
still had me sort of coming out smiling
[TS]
01:56:06
◼
►
and maybe walking just endless story
[TS]
01:56:08
◼
►
there is that they shot the final
[TS]
01:56:10
◼
►
episode of season for thinking will be
[TS]
01:56:11
◼
►
the last episode of the show when they
[TS]
01:56:13
◼
►
got picked up
[TS]
01:56:14
◼
►
they moved that to the last episode of
[TS]
01:56:15
◼
►
season five and they had to shoot a new
[TS]
01:56:17
◼
►
season finale for season 4 as part of
[TS]
01:56:20
◼
►
the block of season five so it's this
[TS]
01:56:22
◼
►
you know season four areas so late that
[TS]
01:56:25
◼
►
they were able to shoot a season 5
[TS]
01:56:26
◼
►
episode and inserted at the end of
[TS]
01:56:28
◼
►
season four
[TS]
01:56:29
◼
►
but how do you do that if you don't want
[TS]
01:56:31
◼
►
to continue the story arc and so he
[TS]
01:56:33
◼
►
created this episode that flashes like
[TS]
01:56:34
◼
►
way forward forward and then farther
[TS]
01:56:37
◼
►
forward and then farther forward and if
[TS]
01:56:39
◼
►
you would have explained that to me and
[TS]
01:56:41
◼
►
said this next episode is going to be
[TS]
01:56:43
◼
►
jumping this far in the future and
[TS]
01:56:44
◼
►
telling what happens and then and then
[TS]
01:56:46
◼
►
the next and the next
[TS]
01:56:47
◼
►
I would have said that is going to suck
[TS]
01:56:49
◼
►
i do not want to watch it was very
[TS]
01:56:50
◼
►
satisfying episode yet managed and off
[TS]
01:56:53
◼
►
because it shows the humans becoming for
[TS]
01:56:55
◼
►
loans and doing right what we said is
[TS]
01:56:56
◼
►
the most important thing is leaving
[TS]
01:56:59
◼
►
yes at the end like we're going to leave
[TS]
01:57:01
◼
►
we're going to be smart enough we
[TS]
01:57:03
◼
►
learned that when it's our time to go
[TS]
01:57:05
◼
►
we're going to turn off the lights blow
[TS]
01:57:07
◼
►
up the Sun and leave
[TS]
01:57:09
◼
►
anything he so definitely use the
[TS]
01:57:11
◼
►
characters that we have come to know and
[TS]
01:57:13
◼
►
love in these futuristic ways that I i
[TS]
01:57:18
◼
►
didn't get mad like I think I might have
[TS]
01:57:20
◼
►
if the if the writer had had a less deft
[TS]
01:57:23
◼
►
touch that using these characters in
[TS]
01:57:25
◼
►
slightly different ways
[TS]
01:57:27
◼
►
alright other pics i love you i was just
[TS]
01:57:32
◼
►
gonna say first of all just for
[TS]
01:57:34
◼
►
continuity purposes and we handle
[TS]
01:57:36
◼
►
time-travel arm you know Babylon squared
[TS]
01:57:38
◼
►
followed by war without end and seeing
[TS]
01:57:41
◼
►
it from the other side that's really
[TS]
01:57:43
◼
►
hard to do it's hard to do time-travel
[TS]
01:57:45
◼
►
no one really gets it right even he
[TS]
01:57:47
◼
►
doesn't quite get it but I think he
[TS]
01:57:49
◼
►
pulled it off better than anyone could
[TS]
01:57:52
◼
►
and it also answered i looked at the
[TS]
01:57:53
◼
►
shows that answer questions because
[TS]
01:57:54
◼
►
Babylon squared ask so many questions
[TS]
01:57:56
◼
►
arm and then there's just a couple
[TS]
01:57:58
◼
►
scenes then I loved the last scene of
[TS]
01:58:01
◼
►
the rock right now I place where
[TS]
01:58:04
◼
►
juxtaposing the gospel choir and he
[TS]
01:58:06
◼
►
wrote that song apparently that's not
[TS]
01:58:07
◼
►
home J michael Straczynski wrote it and
[TS]
01:58:12
◼
►
this said that juxtaposing between you
[TS]
01:58:14
◼
►
know him running and and did them
[TS]
01:58:17
◼
►
singing was awesome and I mean besides
[TS]
01:58:20
◼
►
sort of a little bit weird to have that
[TS]
01:58:22
◼
►
one moment with the whole world's
[TS]
01:58:25
◼
►
falling around him right Dez is
[TS]
01:58:27
◼
►
basically dead and use this voice jump
[TS]
01:58:30
◼
►
he's got like three seconds
[TS]
01:58:31
◼
►
you know to make a decision and it goes
[TS]
01:58:33
◼
►
right you know what if i jump it's gonna
[TS]
01:58:36
◼
►
buy me another 10 seconds and then i'll
[TS]
01:58:37
◼
►
figure out what to do after that 10
[TS]
01:58:39
◼
►
seconds and then i'll figure out what to
[TS]
01:58:40
◼
►
do after that 10 seconds on and the look
[TS]
01:58:42
◼
►
on his face when he does it I thought it
[TS]
01:58:45
◼
►
was like yeah we don't know what's
[TS]
01:58:46
◼
►
happened to him but I kind of like that
[TS]
01:58:49
◼
►
attitude that says he's a man of action
[TS]
01:58:51
◼
►
i'm not going to stand still I still
[TS]
01:58:53
◼
►
have you know ten seconds I'm gonna make
[TS]
01:58:55
◼
►
the most of 10 seconds
[TS]
01:58:56
◼
►
what happens also that that is an old
[TS]
01:58:58
◼
►
spiritual that's a that's not a novice
[TS]
01:59:00
◼
►
all is the original little spiritual
[TS]
01:59:01
◼
►
what a great juxtaposition and I can I
[TS]
01:59:03
◼
►
can sing that song and I can see was a
[TS]
01:59:05
◼
►
reefer getting beaten to death
[TS]
01:59:07
◼
►
yeah yeah yeah it was it was it was an
[TS]
01:59:10
◼
►
echo to one of Jenna's presents his
[TS]
01:59:12
◼
►
favorite movies
[TS]
01:59:14
◼
►
cabaret we're just echoes the joyous
[TS]
01:59:16
◼
►
swinging and if people singing and
[TS]
01:59:18
◼
►
meanwhile sewn being beaten to death
[TS]
01:59:20
◼
►
back and front seat of my car just just
[TS]
01:59:23
◼
►
like matter-of-factly telling the rest
[TS]
01:59:24
◼
►
of the nard like while rivas there that
[TS]
01:59:27
◼
►
make sure this crystal is in his pocket
[TS]
01:59:28
◼
►
also don't tear him apart above the neck
[TS]
01:59:31
◼
►
because you need to be identified
[TS]
01:59:33
◼
►
that's what yeah but if you want to try
[TS]
01:59:35
◼
►
to run go ahead and reva totally
[TS]
01:59:38
◼
►
deserves what he is coming to him and
[TS]
01:59:41
◼
►
you you feel good about it and then you
[TS]
01:59:44
◼
►
feel bad about feeling good about it
[TS]
01:59:46
◼
►
yes all right I'd like to I'd like to
[TS]
01:59:50
◼
►
pull out an unusual one
[TS]
01:59:52
◼
►
I've been watching this with my son
[TS]
01:59:55
◼
►
who's just turned twelve I but I was
[TS]
01:59:58
◼
►
like the Sun this is everything
[TS]
01:59:58
◼
►
like the Sun this is everything
[TS]
02:00:00
◼
►
thing you need to know about modern
[TS]
02:00:01
◼
►
science fiction literature here is
[TS]
02:00:03
◼
►
Babylon 5 watch it with me and he has
[TS]
02:00:05
◼
►
he's enjoyed it quite a bit of the
[TS]
02:00:08
◼
►
maddest he got was in watching the
[TS]
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illusion of truth which is the second
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sort of media story where the where the
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state-run media comes to do a story
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about Babylon 5 and and manipulates the
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story manipulates the truth and will my
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son was watching it and getting madder
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and madder that didn't happen
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wait wait that's that he said that but
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that's not what he meant wait wait that
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he wasn't even there when they said get
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it was the best media education i could
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have given my son ever and I'm do i I
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02:00:51
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just I just love that episode it's
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subversive maybe not just some of us
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your little older who beat her used to
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that used to being cynical about the
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media and all that stuff but it's just
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one of those clever inventor of stories
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that really struck a chord with my son
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made him just a little more savvy about
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the way the world works so i love that
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episode I i have to say day of the dead
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because not only was a great episode
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that written by neil game and also
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featuring Penn & Teller incorporating a
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brilliant and wonderful way to
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accommodate the idea that teller may not
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want to speak on camera in keeping with
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the stage performer persona so it's not
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only is it genuinely great episode of
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itself but also it's it's sometimes
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there are these movies and TV shows
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where the way that you relate to it
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changes as your as as your as you get a
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little bit older because when it first
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aired I was in my late twenties and the
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and it's an episode in which for 24
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it's the day of the dead and people on
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Babylon 5 key characters people who are
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people they people significant in their
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lives who had died basically come back
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and visit them of the during the during
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this day and in my late twenties that
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was before
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friends of mine and family and friends
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02:02:15
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of mine and family members of mine had
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02:02:17
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started dying on me and so that had an
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extra resonance as I'm looking at this
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very very thin came in most cases very
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02:02:24
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painful situations where you're dead and
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02:02:28
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i know you're dead you cannot possibly
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be here but i'm glad that i get an extra
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day to talk to you even though I don't
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02:02:35
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know if this is real or not and then the
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02:02:37
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pain that they feel when this Specter
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02:02:39
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that may or may not have been a figment
[TS]
02:02:41
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of your imagination goes away and just
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02:02:43
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reminds them of you know it's
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02:02:45
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interesting when you get to revisit that
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02:02:47
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from a different perspective it's a
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02:02:49
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great but it is integrate standalone
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02:02:50
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episode of itself
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02:02:51
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yeah despite being a season 5 episode
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02:02:54
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video game and just parachuted in rodin
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02:02:56
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episode broke the streak of all the
[TS]
02:02:57
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Stravinsky episodes and I was going to
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02:03:00
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mention uh the other dark episode that i
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02:03:02
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like the survivors by david ayer general
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02:03:04
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which is up first season episode i think
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02:03:06
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and that's also horrible things
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02:03:08
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involving people killing children
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02:03:11
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yeah that was the one episode i skipped
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02:03:14
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battery mom which wait which one but
[TS]
02:03:17
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that's the one where the the it's a it's
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02:03:19
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kind of a Christian Scientist kind of
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02:03:20
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thing it's the alien to believe great
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02:03:22
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honors up or is what believers yes the
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02:03:26
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first believers yeah believers by David
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02:03:28
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job because uh yeah they open them up
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02:03:30
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and then that the parents believe that
[TS]
02:03:31
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he has no soul but he would have died if
[TS]
02:03:33
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they hadn't operated on him so they save
[TS]
02:03:35
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him but the parents believe he has no
[TS]
02:03:36
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so they killed him yes that is on my
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02:03:39
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list two minutes it's on my list because
[TS]
02:03:42
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it's just so powerful yeah yeah
[TS]
02:03:44
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dark soap and it's another instant other
[TS]
02:03:46
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is another example of this is this this
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02:03:49
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is why that when they do that when they
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02:03:50
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did that on Star Trek it was not
[TS]
02:03:52
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satisfying because on Star Trek events
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02:03:53
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with well thank you for telling thank
[TS]
02:03:55
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you for proving to us for making us
[TS]
02:03:57
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finally realizing that are 10,000 years
[TS]
02:03:59
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of religious tradition have in Buncombe
[TS]
02:04:01
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all along we have really feel as though
[TS]
02:04:02
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we've grown from this experience Thank
[TS]
02:04:04
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You Starfleet right and thank you for
[TS]
02:04:06
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bringing our son back to life and and we
[TS]
02:04:08
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were wrong
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02:04:09
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um yeah and then we all live happily
[TS]
02:04:11
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ever after and how they can apply with
[TS]
02:04:13
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our son is a zombie he is a he is an
[TS]
02:04:17
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abomination abomination of life it it
[TS]
02:04:20
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now you're making it doubly painful
[TS]
02:04:21
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because not only do we know his soul has
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