The Incomparable

00:00:00 ◼   ► this episode of the uncomfortable is [TS]

00:00:03 ◼   ► brought to you by Squarespace the [TS]

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00:00:17 ◼   ► the incomparable number 185 Morris 2014 [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► welcome back to the incomparable podcast [TS]

00:00:34 ◼   ► I'm your host Jason snail and when we [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► were coming up with the idea for this [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► podcast those many years ago i actually [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► have a tweet somebody suggested we do a [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► Babylon 5 episode my said absolutely [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► we're absolutely gonna do it turns out [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► we are going to do it before we hit [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► number 200 but yeah i took a while but [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► we ate it's finally happening i have [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► gathered together people i know who like [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► me watched all of and treasurer Babylon [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► 5 the nineteen nineties era sci-fi [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► series written by J michael Straczynski [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► starring a large and rotating cast of [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► people telling an epic story that was [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► meant to go for five years except the [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► kind of crammed into four because they [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► were afraid they were going to cancelled [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► and then they didn't get cancelled so [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► they had to like fail [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► ok let's still some other stories now [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► but anyway I have a look back on the [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► series with great fondness it definitely [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► is of its time in some ways but in [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► watching some episodes back i was really [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► i really enjoyed it was reminded why i [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► love it so much so we're gonna talk [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► about Babylon 5 and joining me to talk [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► here is my own little league of [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► non-aligned worlds yeah there's a [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► reference area not kohai the war the [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► humans [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► I think knew they were doomed where [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► another race with surrender to despair [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► the humans fought back with greatest [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► think they made them in body fight for [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► every inch of space in my life I've [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► never seen anything like it they would [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► weep they would pray they would say [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► goodbye to the left ones and then throw [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► themselves without fear or hesitation at [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► the very face of death itself never said [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► anything [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► hi Jason behind you got everybody else [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► got a soliloquy planned [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► yes Erika and sign I heard your voice [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► there hello hello [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► I was just gonna say i am not the one I [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► don't like I did not know that uh that [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► uh that when when we met and I recruited [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► you for this podcast that you were about [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► 15 you were so this is a a unexpected [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► bonus area so that's the real that all [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► of us I think chips other things out [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► there you've heard him on many doctor [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► who related topics especially I bring [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► him in he's my doctor who ringer but [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► turns out that chip and Erica and I [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► don't know others are doing a Babylon 5 [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► podcast that should be coming out soon [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► anyway we'll get to that chip [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► hello boom shaka-laka-laka boom [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► shaka-laka-laka oh man that was not my [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► favorite moment but anyway yes I get [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► references knowledge references miloge [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► ason it's good to have you here and mr. [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► garden berg it's a michael greenberg [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► he's back we talk about wrath of khan [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► with him a while ago and he was always [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► on my Babylon 5 list we finally made it [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► hello in tools any Jason and I don't [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► like I will I don't want to say the [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► incomparable is my second favorite thing [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► in the image Cooper [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► oh and uh and my my my next guest is [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► wait a second [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► sorry there are known next guesses math [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► not satra skill that was my reference [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► you see because I didn't have a neutral [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► to do either way it is very bad for [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► zarus so let me it's ok Jason anybody [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► after Andy where we were all gasping for [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► air after that only not pretty much [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► really yeah yeah you know I was either [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► that or the member or the or the [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► dysentery lightbulb joke and I decided [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► to go for both of them [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► you know you know what were we watched [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► four episodes I'm and I'm going to tell [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► you what they were and we always just [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► obviously we've seen all of them maybe [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► even multiple times but we for as a [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► refresher I think we all had our service [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► i meant to watch four episodes 1-4 me to [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► the first four seasons just to remind [TS]

00:04:26 ◼   ► ourselves a little bit and be fresh for [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► this i wanted to mention those since you [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► mentioned this the dynamic especially [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► between londo and shekhar and we will [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► we'll get into the characters but um [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► there's a there's a reference that the [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► Babylon 5 reference that my family that [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► in my house still gets made is from the [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► episode where the condo in shikahr [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► trapped in the elevator together [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► mondo mondo is just shouting and he's [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► like can anyone hear me into courses for [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► you [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► we still do that I thought I thought [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► you're talking about all that beautiful [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► last line with her heard the car like [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► finally realizes that his plan to kill [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► that doesn't allow Londo to die like [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► just didn't didn't work and I excuse me [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► a longer than I hate my life or do I I [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► thought you're gonna go with so many [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► fishes are no fish left in the seed [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► longer when you come on my spoon is [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► getting kind of serious its roots about [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► these little well-done better fresh [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► that's true so Babylon 5 [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► I we're like many characters big [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► storylines came out in the the mid to [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► late nineties it was a new age no that's [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► not what i was going to say so many [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► references here to pack and we watched [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► so just for the record we watched [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► midnight on the firing line from season [TS]

00:05:53 ◼   ► one in the shadows are doing from season [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► 2 interludes and examinations from [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► season three and no surrender no retreat [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► from season four will talk about them [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► but we are going to do a non-spoiler [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► section where we talk about why we like [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► Babylon 5 without getting into so many [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► details about where the show goes in [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► terms of its story and and so don't if [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► you're thinking about all the sounds [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► interesting maybe i'll watch the show [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► sometime stick around at least until the [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► spoiler horn i ask you and um I don't [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► know where what do you guys think we [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► should begin should we start with [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► characters I mean that that's one of the [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► things that I think struck me in [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► watching these four episodes back is it [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► was not just all i remember that [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► storyline was not interesting but it's [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► like you know I I immediately start [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► thought oh londo and shekhar and and and [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► john sheridan and delenn and veer who is [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► obviously a windows 8 who is played for [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► laughs [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► until you realize he's actually quite a [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► great character and not just a joke at [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► all and so many other mr. Garibaldi and [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► security chief Zach and dr. Franklin and [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► a lot just and ivana of course what a [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► crazy character Susan fond of the second [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► command and I so I think we should start [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► there and just you know if it about [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► these characters because i think in in [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► hindsight the story arc of Babylon 5 [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► which was at its time fairly [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► groundbreaking to do tell the story over [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► the course of a lot a long time you got [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► a lot of attention but you know you come [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► may become for the story arc but you [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► gotta stay for the characters and the [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► characters especially that long ago in [TS]

00:07:32 ◼   ► your car pairing of the two ambassadors [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► from you know lifelong enemy the alien [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► races [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► that's what stuck with me and that was [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► what felt like home when I watch these [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► episodes back especially compared where [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► they wind up to where they start off I [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► have to I have to admit that I toilet [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► full no no my candidacy of a dick i'm [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► simply selling the point as a bullet [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► point feature on the side of the body's [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► got excellent is that is that characters [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► evolve you don't have simply that there [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► was nobody whispering into michael [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► Straczynski is here now remember we [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► don't know in what order people are [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► gonna see these we have to reset [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► everything and if your characters are [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► typical well they don't have to change [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► in personality or well your [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► understanding of who they are and i have [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► to admit that I think that one of the [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► most of the brilliant things about the [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► show was that that I hated the the pilot [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► because each of these bitches characters [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► is sort of the science-fiction archetype [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► and of course i had to do pre pre you [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► know internet podcast i had my oh this [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► is so late [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► oh good so you got the Vulcans who are [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► like all like peaceful and whatnot and [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► then you got the kid the characters that [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► are clear that you've gotten are clearly [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► the Klingons and then ok great another [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► black border race and then the open then [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► not knowing until like long long after [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► that that no this is wherever this he [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► started I think he populated this pilot [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► with art with that those kind of tropes [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► so that he would have room to move them [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► around on the chessboard later on and so [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► it wasn't until I think was you Jason [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► who was the the strongest voice saying [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► no dude you had season 2i know what [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► you're talking about it's much better [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► now that got me absolutely hooked on in [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► season two so it's that evolution that [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► you know even even when we were i was [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► watching like a half-dozen or dozen [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► episodes over the past week or so to see [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► that I see the pilot then I see season 2 [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► season 3 season 4 and just saying that [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► all man if I could tell this character [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► in season two [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► honey you have no idea what's happening [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► what's gonna happen to you next year [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► how interesting it is that you felt that [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► way right now so that that's what the [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► signature a great feature of the shows [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► for me [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► in fact it's it's very clear from the [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► first season and the way that story goes [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► that he and he set justice since he has [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► set these characters on a path for them [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► to be everything that they didn't expect [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► to be and that we didn't expect them to [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► be like there's no no character goes [TS]

00:10:00 ◼   ► especially the alien characters that we [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► expect to be these archetypes but even [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► humans they all have a story arc and [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► they all are leading somewhere that is [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► unexpected that it that isn't a counter [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► to all of the expectations from your [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► usual sci-fi kind of trope absolutely [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► and on top of that the get a lot of this [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► character development comes from pitting [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► the characters against each other [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► it's not it's not a star trek scenario [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► where the a single monolithic cast [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► encounters the guest stars of the [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► weekend if the characters are changed [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► afterward [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► that's an unexpected bonus because it's [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► episodic television but jakar vs Londo [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► the cost versus well costumers and [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► whatever agenda it is that he is playing [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► out the secret villains who show up [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► later on everything [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► it's it's it's very our care heavy [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► storytelling and you might and it's very [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► plots intricate is it heavily plotted [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► story but the plot is basically [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► character a once this character be with [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► is willing to stop character a what [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► happens next and that's the thing that [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► just makes me eat up this show with a [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► spoon [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► it's the evolution of these characters [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► as they evolve over the four years [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► they're not the same people we met early [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► on or or who we thought we met early on [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► you know londo and in some of the first [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► episodes comes across as just sort of a [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► buffoon you know who's going to take him [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► very very seriously [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► Sinclair doesn't necessarily come off [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► and he's clearly no Captain Picard or [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► you know everyone changes on and their [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► relationships change i'm close friends [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► are suddenly not you know not so close [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► by the end of the park and you have [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► tremendous consistency through the story [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► which again is a no person driving crazy [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► the inconsistencies are going back and [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► watching this I kind of realized [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► watching this episode again just start [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► in that on the firing line [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► wow there's things here that totally [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► don't make any sense you would notice [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► until season to season three yeah and [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► that was all flat-out just subtle little [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► things that you know when you hit you go [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► oh yeah I remember that from you know [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► season 1 episode 4 and now that [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► reference makes particular sense and he [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► kept doing that consistently he wasn't [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► afraid to shuffle the deck from time to [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► time he wasn't afraid to throw a [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► surprise or two at us from time to time [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► and I think even the way they resolved [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► it you know it kind of got to the point [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► where it's sort of like okay I get this [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► you know it's this is the this is like [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► okay we've seen this before you know [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► it's good versus evil and then we get to [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► a point like well what was it really [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► about before we get too far off of [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► characters i just want to jump [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► I can say that the consistency of of [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► character i think also comes through its [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► they had as you all said amazing arcs [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► just within themselves that the [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► characters definitely developed but i [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► recently went through and did an entire [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► rewatch of the whole five years and then [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► jumped back to watch the first episode [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► midnight on the firing line for this and [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► I was really struck by how the [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► characters are still the same people [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► Londo in the first episode is completely [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► different from the londo and the last [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► episode he really has a very big change [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► to his personality but it's a natural [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► development it's not like the writer [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► came in and very clinically changed the [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► character to suit the narrative and [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► called a character development which you [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► sometimes see this you look at that [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► Lando and you can going back it was like [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► oh wow this is young Londo this is this [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► is him as a kid not really a kid but [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► before he experienced everything is [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► there's a scene in I is it no surrender [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► no retreat where we're lond assisted to [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► jakar something by him [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► it's been a bad year for the difficult [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► here and you can see these four years [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► have been you know momentous and has its [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► changed everybody and there's an [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► acknowledgement of that and when you [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► look back to the beginning you can see [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► it that the these these characters [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► change as a result of the the what [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► happens to them in the story which is [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► you know that's how it's supposed to be [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► and that is how it is with a lot of TV [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► now but in the day you know the [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► benchmark in it when Babylon 5 came on [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► the air with Star Trek The Next [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► Generation essentially the only show [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► that was that had been on for any length [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► of time it was a sci-fi show and it was [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► all standalone episodes as were most [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► mainstream dramas at this time so to [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► tell this story and and tell it over [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► time and let those characters grow and [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► change and not reset every week was [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► pretty dramatic but even Nick mark shows [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► like lost great the characters kinda for [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► the most part don't change least they [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► didn't to me they were all more or less [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► the same they go through some you know [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► evolution here you have characters [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► really evolved on and sometimes changing [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► and changing again because that's what [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► we all do like as they're reacting to [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► the circumstances that [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► constantly changing around them and that [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► was powerful [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► it's even more than that i'd like to see [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► what you and Jason are saying and raise [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► it's not just about what's happening to [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► the characters but it's about the [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► choices that the characters make our [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► Londo in particular are in in in some [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► respects he is his story is possibly the [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► axis around which the whole the whole [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► series revolves but most of the [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► characters if not all of them something [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► happens and they react to it and they [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► make a decision and that's one of the [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► things that Stravinsky seem to talk up a [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► lot when he was speaking letting fancy [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► behind the curtain about what he was [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► trying to do is that these characters [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► these characters change as a result of [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► the decisions the good ones and the bad [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► ones that they make and most of the [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► characters are allowed to make some [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► pretty horrible decisions not breaking [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► bad level decision its but it's that [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► they they are allowed to make some [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► mistakes and after it clean up their [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► messes or be manipulated into making [TS]

00:16:17 ◼   ► decisions which happens quite a lot but [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► that's that's a signature for me for [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► four great storytelling where don't just [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► let a character walk away from something [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► they did because that's going to change [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► who that's going to change their [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► behavior is going to change the behavior [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► of people around them and it's not [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► exclusive to Babylon 5 I still I still [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► hold up the shield is probably the [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► single greatest continuous drama on [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► television and imagine the magical thing [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► about that show is that it's all about [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► the pilot episode it everything that [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► happens over seven seasons are [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► repercussions from the first what [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► happens in the first episode and Babylon [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► 5 also plugs into that same mojo [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► yeah it's it's a I mean I don't want to [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► overstate it but because Babylon 5 was [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► not the first add a lot of this stuff [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► but it was one of the first and you know [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► how Joe Straczynski uh took this story [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► that was a back it was a pilot a TV [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► movie with no serious commitment on a [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► network that wasn't a network and yet [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► had the fortitude to say i'm going to [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► tell a five-year story and the fact that [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► he actually did get to tell five your [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► story [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► it's kind of amazing but he'll that was [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► there from the beginning on syndicated [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► television [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► no less right almost every episode every [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► I just meant everything in every just [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► about every episode was yeah totally [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► written by him in fact was some point [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► through the things that red was there [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► was a couple of episodes but there [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► appear to be ad-libs and someone asked [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► him you know like one of those Adam goes [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► there's no ad-libbing on my show every [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► word is as i wrote it was meant to be [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► there you know yeah we do not tolerate a [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► dilemma in the last three years I think [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► there was one episode he didn't write [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► which was the neil game in neil gaiman [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► episode in the fifth year before before [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► Neil Gaiman get started on as a doctor [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► who writer he guest-starred as a Babylon [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► 5 writer in the fifth season is sort of [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► questionable economical or in my head [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► it's sort of like to watch something in [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► my mind it ended after four seasons is [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► there was there a word and fandom for [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► like the the times where there's an [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► episode or a whole season where we all [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► just decided well that was a dream [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► sequence that didn't actually happen if [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► there is no phantom in the entire world [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► where everybody agrees on anything it's [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► the Phantom at the Phantom Menace I [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► think we can all agree never took place [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► nope i like the Phantom minutes okay [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► there you go it's your personal cannon [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► that uh that that you know I like to [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► believe the buffy the vampire slayer [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► ended after five years and then she had [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► a dream and she was dying of being a [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► musical and then that was being but that [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► is not the case they did make seven [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► seasons government [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► this isn't about the opposite i wanted [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► to say I'm we should talk a while we're [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► still being general and not blowing [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► spoiler horn one of the notable things [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► about Babylon 5 is it was it was the [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► first I show to make a great use of CGI [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► which we now think of as sort of like [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► everything use CGI even all the non [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► sci-fi shows you CGI to do compositing [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► and things but Babylon 5 was the first [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► space show where the spaceships were all [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► or at least the first mainstream show [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► that with spaceships role models [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► everything is done in a computer at [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► their computer models the 3d models star [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► trek used the old school way of doing [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► this week it was it was a few years [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► after jurassic park but on a TV budget a [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► a very small looking at some of those [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► sets a small TV budget to do what they [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► did with their graphics and over the [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► course of time and kept getting better [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► when they started it was like a light [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► wave running [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► on anamika but by the time I remember I [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► remember seeing a scene and being blown [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► away by it and it actually is in no [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► surrender no retreat there's a scene [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► where Sharon standing at the at the [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► front of the bridge of a spaceship and [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► the and out the windows you can see the [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► space battle is going on in the camera [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► is not locked down and it's moving [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► around and panning and the space battle [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► moves with it and there's perspective [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► change and I remember seeing that gonna [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► know how no no how can that be [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► and because they did not commit that day [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► they didn't do that more guys with after [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► effects on max because i actually went [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► and saw them do this doing that frame by [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► frame and now you know that happens on [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► every TV show but back then that was [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► like the first time you saw stuff like [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► that on TV and so that's an interesting [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► thing about this show too is that some [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► of the cgi looks really dated now but I [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► mean by the time deep space nine got off [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► the air [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► Star Trek was using CGI for almost [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► everything that was the big debate you [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► know among the geeks you know models [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► first CD and now and look at the [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► episodes and you go you know modern CJ [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► you can go out that looks real now you [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► look at Babylon 5 no that's pretty good [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► CGI it's a video game looks like a video [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► right yeah it's it's not on par with you [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► know an iphone graphic he says yeah the [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► cgi was actually what kept me from [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► getting into the show for as long as I [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► sort of held out that the way I came to [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► Babylon 5 was summer in the second or [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► third season i think it was and we had [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► deep space nine night I was in college [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► and I would go to my our my friends Mac [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► suggest dorm room and we would watch [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► deep space nine every Sunday think of [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► sunday and there was this other show on [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► before it called Babylon 5 and we would [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► always catch the end of it the last [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► people you know they put back-to-back [TS]

00:21:26 ◼   ► shade and although we cannot guarantee [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► program so many we catch a little bit [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► and we will be like what is this [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► ridiculous show look at those stupid [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► looking ships that we made fun of it and [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► then as time went on i would get there [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► earlier and earlier and we would catch [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► more of this other show and suddenly [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► realize like actually this just really [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► good and then after a few more weeks of [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► that deep space nine night became [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► Babylon 5 night and we stopped watching [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► ds9 [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► kid you not that that was that was that [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► was another reason why was Babylon 5 was [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► so much more exciting than any star trek [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► series because only in retrospect after [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► seeing a couple seasons about 15 did you [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► realize that like I think the reason why [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► i like the enterprise and Starfleet were [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► so big on like we we must say you click [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► on high commander we must settle this [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► dramatically because we cannot afford to [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► animate separates battled just keep your [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► ship exactly where it is don't move and [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► just keeping the viewscreen whereas this [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► Babylon 5 you can actually have well [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► let's see there are multiple alien races [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► i bet each one of them would have a [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► different style ship and Babylon 5 like [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► the first one that made me realize you [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► can't wait a minute how come we never [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► seen since the hum Starfleet doesn't [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► have a fighter ships anything with you [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► never send it like it's like you never [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► have like one of those dogfights like we [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► enjoyed in Star Wars and every every [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► series before that not only that but its [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► star flee all ships I had to fly on a [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► single right you know that that you yet [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► you have starch you have star ships [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► approaching each other they're the same [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► angle and all the other stuff meanwhile [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► Babylon 5 you have ships that are [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► actually respecting the laws of physics [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► the star Furies that were introduced in [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► that first episode midnight on the [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► firing line [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► yeah the animations a little primitive [TS]

00:23:15 ◼   ► by today's standards but you see them [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► flipping around and flying backwards [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► using their own inertia to take out [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► other ships and things like that it's it [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► and I don't wanna I don't want to turn [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► this into a star trek vs Babylon 5 [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► things because i am i'm a big star trek [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► fan and I grew up on the original series [TS]

00:23:33 ◼   ► i love the next generation and I like [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► deep space 9 [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► i I don't I think there's a the fans [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► like to fight about things you know [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► words but yeah very big shock also known [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► as having opinions Jason can't we all [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► just get along [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► there are just so different yeah they're [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► just so different shows you can't really [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► compare and that was my point exactly [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► which is what i like what i loved about [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► Babylon 5 was all the ways that it [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► wasn't like Star Trek and that doesn't [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► mean that I didn't like Star Trek but I [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► what I like about Babylon 5 is it it [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► pushed a lot of buttons that Star Trek [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► didn't things that I remember from [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► reading lots of sci-fi novels as a kid [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► as a teenager that [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► weren't things I saw in Star Trek [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► because Star Trek was the way that it [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► had been set up in the sixties by Gene [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► Roddenberry was gonna be that in Babylon [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► I think purposefully because joseph [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► kosinski also a giant star trek fan was [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► trying to do stuff that Star Trek [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► couldn't he knew he was gonna be you [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► know an alternative to star trek he [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► didn't want to be star trek and he he [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► got tired of getting compared to and I [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► think so I you can like you can like [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► them both but the reason I like b5 has a [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► lot more to do with all the ways that [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► it's not Star Trek rather than it being [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► like which one is the better Star Trek [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► Deep Space nine or Babylon 5 because [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► it's a completely false comparison time [TS]

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00:25:11 ◼   ► super complex now it back in the old [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► days like 2007 when the iphone came out [TS]

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00:25:17 ◼   ► developers to know how the apps are [TS]

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00:26:11 ◼   ► available just for listening to the [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► incomparable that's New Relic calm / [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► incomparable and thanks to New Relic for [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► sponsoring the incomparable the epic [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► so that I was actually watching it was [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► actually and a Babylon 5 that was [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► watching that ended just as you are [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► starting guess we're starting the show [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► was intersections in real-time and i [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► would note no snow spoilers of that this [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► isn't a spoil everything but both both [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► Babylon 5 and and Star Trek next [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► generation had the episode in which a [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► high-profile character is interrogated [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► for the entire yes and I think that the [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► reason that it i think that that that [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► episode of Babylon 5 really in caps [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► encapsulate why i happen to prefer [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► Babylon 5 because you know if the the [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► one with the one with the weekend we can [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► spoil the next generation this is not [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► the next generation project [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► exactly screw the likes o the in the [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► cards being interrogated and the [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► inquisitors like well you know I'm sorry [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► to have to interrogate you like this you [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► know that I was raised a scientist you [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► know I was a small boy who chased frogs [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► and glum before and I have my I had a [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► teacher named mr. like that just like [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► the interrogators opening up to him and [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► talking all this stuff and the entire [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► episode is about how pacar gets over [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► gets it over on him and puts the [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► Inquisitor in his place and gets rescued [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► and says defiantly there are fault [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► lights or whatever it is he says through [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► those parts and got rest with Babylon 5 [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► it's like no you don't understand he [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► this characters being interrogated by an [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► experienced interrogator in a facility [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► where they do nothing but interrogate [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► enemies all day long if the if if this [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► characters they there's nothing about [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► this situation that they don't control [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► this character is completely screwed and [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► anytime that they that he's happy it's [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► only because they have manipulated [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► things to make him feel happy and by the [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► end of the episode maybe you're gonna [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► find out that this is the it's like that [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► this is the point which I'm like sort of [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► standing up and applauding because I i [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► didn't i didn't dislike the next [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► generation but again if what the times [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► when that that series disappointed me [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► was when it seemed as though there was a [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► storyline that said well this obviously [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► has to end this way because this there's [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► absolutely no way in hell that this the [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► storyline is going to end with a person [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► who grew up in a hundred thousand year [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► old civilization where they euthanize [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► everybody 865 is suddenly going to [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► decide that that's all bs [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► that's not gonna work that's not gonna [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► happen oh wait that's exactly what [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► happened ok again I don't know for sure [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► getting into spoiler territory or but [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► even the changes between who's running [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► that modified between the first season [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► in the second season second season [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► started like the healthy but what the [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► hell's going on here because there was [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► no explanation given whatsoever we [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► didn't come to understand the reasoning [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► why things happened until much later on [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► and of course you know being a cynical [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► person figured I can a lot of so unless [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► they had a contract dispute or something [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► like that [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► the others they're just going to pretend [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► that there are you know to Darrin's on [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► bewitched you mentioned you mentioned [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► lost earlier and I mean this is one of [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► the facts of any long-running TV shows [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► you're gonna have casting problems that [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► are not story problems and you know la [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► lost probably have some story problems [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► too i love i love lost I you know it's [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► it's that's just my cross to bear but [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► the fact is they uh they also have [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► casting problems [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► mankind is born into trouble surely a [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► sparks fly upward and some people have [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► to have to buy the DVD some people have [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► to buy the blu rays of loss tonight i do [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► have them but you know that my point is [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► a casting is also a problem and so in [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► Babylon 5 you did have actors who had to [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► leave and they had to get you know I [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► think since go is called the trop [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► trapdoors he had trapdoors there that he [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► could he could pull if he needed to and [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► one of them was Michael hair had to [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► leave after the first season I think [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► that it's come out in in recent years [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► that he was struggling with mental [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► illness and they kept it quiet but he [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► and he got through that season but he [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► needed to not be on the show anymore and [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► then you also the examples like Oh Talia [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► winters that actress wanted out and so [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► they wrote her out and claudia christian [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► county and claudia christian had a [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► contract negotiation problem and you [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► know that it happened as they went and [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► and some of that stuff just happens on [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► TV that's just that's just how it is and [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► and you know audiences get sad about it [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► I i was gonna let's fire off the spoiler [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► how about that we set a lot of things [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► unless you guys how are you you before [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► we do that you want to talk a little bit [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► more about you know reasons that you [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► like the show or do you think we should [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► end [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► spoiler territory right I'd be kind of [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► interested in talking about [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► oh and i hate to bring this up because [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► this is the age old doctor who question [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► but if people are interested in it where [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► to start because i know many people are [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► not super fun of the first season and I [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► I am NOT one of those people i thought i [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► was a couple years ago I was like oh [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► yeah for season was crap but when I went [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► back and rewatch the whole thing this [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► time I i found myself going oh wait i [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► liked this episode we have this one is [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► really good too so i'm actually now a [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► staunch defender of the first season but [TS]

00:31:16 ◼   ► i think a lot of that may come from the [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► fact that i watched the rest of it so i [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► can see kind of where it's going and I'm [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► just wondering like I said I jumped in [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► the first time around in the second or [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► third season and i'm wondering if you [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► guys think if if people are interested [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► in the show should they start at the [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► beginning and just power through or [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► maybe check out in the middle haha I i [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► would recommend that the TNT TV movie [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► Babylon 5 in the beginning as a starting [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► point really on but it's a real career [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► yeah well the end well [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► well it it's bought it it spoils the end [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► and one key point about see about a one [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► key mystery in series one on the other [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► hand if you're trying to get somebody [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► into the show this with this would be [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► when it premiered on the TNT network i [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► had a room full of people that I invited [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► over for Babylon 5 party who had never [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► seen the show and they they were in [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► rapture it was it went over it went over [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► better than I that I could have thought [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► those brand you and and when you and [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► when you watch in the beginning and then [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► go into the first season although some [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► of the spoilers are kick over then some [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► of the other the resistance that comes [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► up when you watch this uneven first [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► season where they're so we're sort of [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► finding their way you see enough of the [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► context in these other other episodes so [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► that would be my vote you have mine [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► wants to be my vote would be power [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► through it because there's so much that [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► happens in that first season that you're [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► right it's like its agreement tom clancy [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► book you get 300 pages into it before [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► you know the count [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► bizarre but the book doesn't make any [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► sense without it and then you're missing [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► quite a lot because there's so much for [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► shadowing at first season that's the [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► problem foreshadowing it can be a little [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► bit boring at times until you get into [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► it that you know i would tell people [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► you're going to commit power through [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► watch start with the pilot suffer [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► through it because it isn't as good as [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► their ass yeah but you should still you [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► should you should still suffer through [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► it just to get a sense of the show we [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► can say suffer quite so much revenue [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► interested and actually and which pilot [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► are you talking about because there are [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► two versions of it you know whatever one [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► you can get the one with you yeah the [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► one with the stewart copeland soundtrack [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► or the one that was really scored yeah [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► what happened was the the pilot the [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► pilot is called the gathering and you [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► can get it in on non DVD if you give you [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► if you go for the DVD sets the one that [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► you will get is the one that was reacted [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► for tnt and aired and the it's been [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► rescored it's been re-edited tightened [TS]

00:33:59 ◼   ► up there's more stuff to it on balance [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► and I think it's much [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► yeah i think i like it i didn't make it [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► i thought i founded cringe-worthy yeah I [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► didn't I didn't I didn't love it and but [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► it's hard to not it's hard to not have [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► it but uh the the version the version on [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► itunes I don't know about the other [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► digital services but the version itunes [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► is the original letter with the stewart [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► copeland soundtrack and other stuff and [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► I I don't like it as much as you like [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► your Babylon 5 sounding like an episode [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► of the equalizer that is a version that [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► is the version for I think you gotta [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► watch season one and and i'm going to [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► say you could probably somebody could [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► probably construct a a a viewing guide [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► that included half the episodes of [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► season one and probably you could get [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► the flavor for it or you can just power [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► through it I i think the reasons the big [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► reasons you you can't do it i mean the [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► number one reason is Sinclair I he is [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► that is a that is a character that grows [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► on you and by the end of the season [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► that's the real shame of him of him [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► leaving the show which he does sorry [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► little spoiler there but I mean it's a [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► minor honestly in the grand scheme of [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► things he leaves that he leaves the show [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► as a regular after the first season he [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► grows on you and ends up being he's not [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► not the at the star trek captain that [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► you're sort of expecting and he is this [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► very different kind of guy and he ends [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► up being really kind of endearing and [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► interesting also Michael O'Hare's [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► performance is not what you expect from [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► your leading man and that takes some [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► getting used to but in the end you know [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► I think you need to have that experience [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► with Sinclair and you need to see where [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► things get set up with him and his [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► relationship with the land so that when [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► bruce boxleitner comes in as Sheridan [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► which I would argue is the moment where [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► the show clinched it was gonna be around [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► that they gotta somebody people knew and [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► a really good I I think good actor with [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► a good character and I think that was [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► the moment where for me the show caught [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► fire is when bruce boxleitner walked on [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► the on the on the set and I was like oh [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► this guy i know this guy he's got you [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► know he's got command but you can't you [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► gotta have that Sinclair stuff and you [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► gotta have his relationship with [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► Garibaldi and you've got to have the [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► Babylon squared episode before you see [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► simply or before you see share it and so [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► I think you got you gotta watch season [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► one and he's so different than Sharon [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► did get the contrast is why didn't I [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► cast someone and say let's make you know [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► shared just added the Sinclair mode you [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► know now is playing the part of Jeffrey [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► Sinclair I i also agree that power [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► through season one with where we're [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► making fun of it because we're fans [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► it really isn't as bad as we're jokingly [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► making it out to be [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► it's just that this is a huge this is a [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► cruise ship lose leaving the terminal [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► that is not going to show its full power [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► until its left port that's the and [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► that's what you have to deal with the [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► springtime those strings the our [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► campuses and there's a lot fewer arc [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► episodes in season one because right you [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► got to get everybody used to it and yet [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► you know they they haven't figured out [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► how to shoot it they hadn't figured out [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► how to direct the cgi is still kind of a [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► work-in-progress everything is like [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► powering up in season one which is not [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► to say that it's terrible but everything [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► is not where it's going to be by the [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► season two and reach and bring up and [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► bring currently if you bring up a really [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► great point in that there are arc that [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► they're there arc and their non arc [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► episodes and some of them are what was [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► the term that the Germans used to say [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► that there is like the sledgehammer [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► episodes where this is one of the but [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► yeah basically [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► amazon episode right so you can probably [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► come up with a list of non arc episodes [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► like intersections in real time as I was [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► watching it was i was struck by the fact [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► that if you would never see if you if if [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► if there were no syndication of the show [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► whatsoever no dvds they could sell this [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► just as an episode of an anthology [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► series because all you need it doesn't [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► connect to anything or any stories [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► outside in a profound way if all you [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► know you get from the first five minutes [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► the episode that there is somebody who [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► is in some sort of large military [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► organization the government that owns [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► that military organization seems to [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► think that he has been affected and now [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► he's being interrogated that's really [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► all you need [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► I was also thinking of a another one of [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► my favorite favorite episodes passing [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► through the ceremony which is an episode [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► on that one [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► you also get such a gutsy episode [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► because it would it's introduces a new [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► character so you don't have to know my [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► love back story but powerful dramatic [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► moment with serious consequences that [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► are dealt with within the episode and it [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► also shows you it's it's it's a good [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► calling card because i don't know if a [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► lot of these series would have had the [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► guts to be explicit about the religion [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► of future the future world that were no [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► we're not going to say that well of [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► course we know it all the times we pray [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► to pagan gods but of course now we [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► understand that there's science behind [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► all of this [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► no there are monks then there are [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► religious orders and there are people [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► who celebrate Hanukkah and the light [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► menorahs and the end them and the monks [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► are actually very intelligent sharp [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► people who have who are very very adept [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► there they're like Jesuits really [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► because they're willing to say there's [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► absolutely there's absolutely no [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► conflict between the fact that there are [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► a million different races as a matter of [TS]

00:39:09 ◼   ► fact that gives us the impetus to find [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► out why how they see their God and how [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► does it compare to how we see our God [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► and I wanted it I wanted to mention in [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► Parliament dreams is an episode where we [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► see lots of aliens and we see lots of [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► religious beliefs and what one of the [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► things and it won an Emmy actually for [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► makeup but it also won joseph kosinski [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► an award for covering religious themes [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► and television which is fascinating [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► because he is a he has a religious [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► background but is an atheist and yet [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► didn't shy away from saying you don't go [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► out in space you know all the stuff that [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► we have with us here it's going to come [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► with us and it's not going to disappear [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► it's still going to be there and maybe [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► if we meet aliens they're gonna have [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► some of their own beliefs and wouldn't [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► be interesting to talk about that mets [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► and he did and and that's another thing [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► that I think you don't see inside I TV a [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► lot I and you're right about the [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► standalone episodes i could I can hand [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► the wheat with the way I'm episodes are [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► great and then why I just was scrolling [TS]

00:40:08 ◼   ► through the lurkers guide to Babylon 5 [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► which is was the very early and [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► definitive TV resource largely authored [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► by whom CEO Stephen Grimm is that is the [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► fellows name uh and I i met there is [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► another name that i saw on that sigh i [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► bring up over my name appears on about [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► four four episodes because I was willing [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► to read the spoilers from the episode [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► that aired in the UK before they aired [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► in the US and edit those pages for [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► Stephen because he didn't want to be [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► spoiled and when somebody very nice in [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► the UK sent Stephen those episodes on a [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► VHS tape he invited me to come down and [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► see the thing I'd already been spoiled [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► on so I got to watch it watch four [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► episodes of Babylon 5 with the guy who [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► delivers got which was pretty cool [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► I'm not the lurkers guys still up it's [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► amazingly enough it is still at [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► midwinter dot-com / lurk even now you [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► can if you kids want to see what the [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► internet look like a 1999 yeah that is [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► which interrogation bar is only like one [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► quarter of the size of your screen [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► yeah yeah it was formatted for vga those [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► were the days [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► what if you go to the front page you'll [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► see that he's put it all up on github [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► now you know kids you don't really you [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► don't necessarily have to have the real [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► real player plugin now I'm not because [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► you you because my modem can't handle [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► that kind of data but anyway there are a [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► lot of great there a lot of great [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► standalone episodes up there are you [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► know quality of Mercy with June Lockhart [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► as the woman whose mysteriously healing [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► people in the down below and and even [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► those episodes it someway or another got [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► worked into your understanding upset you [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► didn't have to see the rest of them they [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► were ok but one way or another he found [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► ways of working all the standalone up [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► so it's for the most part it's it's some [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► level into the things came back its true [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► like that like that episode is a great [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► example to young the jewel of the [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► healing she would come to action right i [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► mean yeah I mean we thought that was [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► totally done with and surprisingly [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► enough it you know he kept it around as [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► just time I need that it for a rainy day [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► and he and he used it [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► ok let's fire off the spoiler form [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► alright where were able to sew [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► Sinclair's valen make no it doesn't get [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► that out doesn't it [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► ok oh I feel so much better now it's [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► funny actually I wanted to mention [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► before before we talk a little bit more [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► about the story arc we were talking [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► about standalone episodes and maybe we [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► could we could talk about favorite [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► episodes briefly and i'm going to say we [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► picked some really good episodes for [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► this obviously i think that they no [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► surrender no retreat is a really great [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► one interludes and examinations which [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► sounds very much like it's going to be [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► an episode in which nothing happens and [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► in fact shocking amount of things happen [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► and the room gets mighty dusty when [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► cautious ship flies itself into the Sun [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► because josh has been we realize what [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► he's been trying to tell Sheridan is [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► you're right we need to do this thing [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► and attack the shadows and they're going [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► to kill me and and I'm not going to be [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► able to protect you [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► Rance Howard Rance Howard or years old [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► the older you get the more set in your [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► ways to get more you don't know I guess [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► I just try to help as much of that could [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► those that are watching new moon scale [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► we said the episodes with the most [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► innocuous title that's the 1i am worried [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► oh my god I've never got so broken up [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► about the death of a toilet seat board [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► it's a beautiful to register tortoise [TS]

00:43:37 ◼   ► shell pattern on the toilet seat Bolin [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► gosh I i seriously khosh what a strange [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► character and obviously we never seem [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► easy he's a he is a puppeteer and then [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► AAW invoice but um has amazing dialogue [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► michael and i will often say to each [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► other on Twitter that the you know the [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► Avalanche has already begun it's too [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► late for the pebbles to vote right for [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► you have forgotten something [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► but at the end there when khosh is [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► attacked by the shadows it's upsetting [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► that you feel sad that this character [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► who was not portrayed by actor if is [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► dead [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► it's anything you beautiful about that [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► particular scene is they don't show like [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► shadows taking out lightsabers and and [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► you know [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► kaash taking out is you know for line [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► Ben is three sword yeah it's just it's [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► it's sort of happens in a blur because [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► this really how do you portray that he [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► didn't bother there are totally [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► different level [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► yeah it was anything else but it kind of [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► just made it was cheap and then that one [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► moment you know where this surge of [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► energy goes to shit like what the hell [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► just happened [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► mmhmm yeah and then and and the room the [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► room turns bright and add water closes [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► his eyes and that's just you know that's [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► it is a signature moment for that show [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► yeah there's a lot of moments like that [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► where you you wonder what that it's easy [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► to be embarrassed her fraudulent to be [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► armchair psychologist and try to think [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► about the relationship that the creator [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► of this show must have had with his [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► father because there are a lot of [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► interludes like that where somebody has [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► a conversation with their father or [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► someone that has a fatherly love [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► relationship with preferred for me there [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► was this is me like recording the shows [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► on VHS and wearing out that section of [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► tape that I recorded dust to dust on [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► where Dzhokhar is as happy as having a [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► hallucination but he essentially meets [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► his spiritual father and he just then [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► the spiritual father just lays it out [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► for your car you have become distracted [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► this is why you're angry and this is [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► what you have to do and you have this [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► moment of pure epiphany that is so [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► powerful that as jakar is breaking down [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► i found myself in my office they're just [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► like wiping a tier thinking that my god [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► we have seen the rebirth of another [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► person here and that and that and it [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► really is a father-son sort of things [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► that the first is not even a second of [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► the fifth time that you see the kind of [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► relationship between these two be [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► between two characters like that we see [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► with Oliver and her father is going [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► along there's no doubt that in many ways [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► you know Sharon father was a war on the [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► often but i often quoted father's well [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► that's that that Star Trek where [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► everyone who everyone who looks human is [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► actually the offspring of human another [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► hey Liam certainly he just combed his [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► hair so you can see the bump on his [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► forehead we could definitely see when we [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► actually meet that you know the real [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► Sheridan's father rant rant our data [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► that a he too had his aphorisms right [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► engine and John would quote them and so [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► to have Josh take his his appearance in [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► order to say goodbye was this really [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► nice fitting connection between those [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► those characters and even happens in [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► midnight on the firing line when the [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► sinclair and love are talking about [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► Sinclair's father and he sort of looks [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► off in the distance you know that is a [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► nice and version of that with dr. [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► Franklin and his father because they [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► didn't get along and he comes in and it [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► but that but of course eventually they [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► sort of makeup and there's our wrath of [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► khan connection because that's paul [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► winfield but when you think about it- [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► spoiler horn has been alerted is that [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► when you get to the end of the end of [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► series where they finally pay off here [TS]

00:47:24 ◼   ► is what the entire series has been about [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► it really is about older generation [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► younger generation and the conflict is [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► always going to be between the two and [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► what the older generation will always [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► represent to that younger generation and [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► that and then you need at that you're [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► not to you really haven't completed your [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► journey until you have in a kind way [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► told the order older generation go to [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► hell i don't have to do what you're [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► telling me to do i can now think an act [TS]

00:47:47 ◼   ► and create the next generation of [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► Destiny for the world around me so I [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► don't have to tell my parents now get [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► the hell out of my galaxy or and i sent [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► a card on their birthdays and [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► anniversary if it's our time now [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► oh and along those lines of the the [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► piece that the the moment in this show [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► that really makes me ball [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► uh yes I can admit it is it is possibly [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► unusual when it's in its towards the end [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► of the series objects at rest when [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► sheridan and delenn are leaving Babylon [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► 5 for the last time and this is the last [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► one of your episodes shot because the an [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► 11-yard shot the year before [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► absolutely but they come about to become [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► about to look at the to take one last [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► look and you zoom in on the command deck [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► of the station and lined up [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► all in a row are all of these new [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► characters or old characters lifted up [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► in new positions and it is somebody who [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► is a replacement for every single lead [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► character in the show from commander [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► from Captain lochley veer replacing [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► Londo tell on replacing jakar the you [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► know all of it and silly and it's like [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► that is exactly what you're talking [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► about the next generation the [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► replacements here we are we're moving on [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► goodbye and I and then that Christopher [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► frog music in the background and I'm [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► verklempt [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► yeah yeah and and also the changing and [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► shifting perspectives like it gets to [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► the point where ok we think we know who [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► the good guys are we think we know who [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► the bad guys are in no it turns out the [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► universe isn't black and white [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► uh-huh and and maybe some of these good [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► guys are kind of acting in their own [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► interests that have absolutely nothing [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► to do with no right or wrong good and [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► evil and sort of Sheridan comes to that [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► conclusion of look what's actually [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► happening here the show really tilt in a [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► very different direction [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► yeah I i really appreciate and I and at [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► the time I don't know if it still is but [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► at the time it was controversial that [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► they ended the shadow for long conflict [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► so quickly but I mean I thought it was a [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► beautiful thing that the shadows goal is [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► not to take over the galaxy the shadows [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► goal is to i think they said knock over [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► an anthill right the shot just the [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► shadows shadows goal is to sow chaos and [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► get everybody to fight each other [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► because out of that will come a better [TS]

00:50:19 ◼   ► you know a better society the strong [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► will rise and the vorlons are kind of [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► above the fray but they're they're both [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► sort of feel like the galaxies there is [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► to dictate how it's going to go and that [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► and so you know yes the shadows are bad [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► and need to be defeated but at the same [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► time in the end they both need to go [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► they only mom and dad both need to get [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► out of the galaxy and that's one of the [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► that kind of brings me to an episode [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► that i really like which is enough [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► falling toward apotheosis which was the [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► first episode of season four [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► there's so much that happens in it that [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► the part that I like the best was was [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► actually the jacquard Londo stuff on [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► centauri prime but i also like the fact [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► that back on Babylon [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► five you got Sharon Lauren and a piece [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► of cosh taking down the new foreign [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► ambassador and I just I really like that [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► the vorlons don't stay this magical [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► mystical good guy angel folk they just [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► turned into a hole like everybody else [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► it turns out that they're not all the [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► same writer not all cut from the same [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► old and cash was actually kind of [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► different than his replacement wasn't [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► nearly as nice that's why they sent him [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► to Babylon 5 they stuck him with that [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► job that's right well that's I think [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► that was sort of the point right you [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► know the beginning mondo is like a I I'm [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► being punished from the World Court they [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► sent me here [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► yeah but with a but worth of Orleans [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► like presented at that moment of reveal [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► that they are if they they aren't the [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► good guys in the shadows of the bad guys [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► there's two opposite points of view [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► where guests the the vorlons excuse me [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► the the shadows believe kick over [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► inhales create conflicts become that the [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► survivors will become better and [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► stronger rest i think i can remember [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► this is an active i remember this as [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► being an exact line but I could be wrong [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► thing for the the vorlons are the ones [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► who sit down eat your vegetables comb [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► your hair wash behind your ears and both [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► of them are doing the same in both of [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► your eye doing are doing the same thing [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► saying that this generation is for us to [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► manipulate into we are that we are the [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► shepherds of the universe and we are the [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► parents who will make sure that the [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► everything work out fine by telling [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► everybody else what to do [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► whereas they don't it's alright it's [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► like the opposite of being of being a [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► child in this universe the time you you [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► should realize the power of your work is [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► done so you have to move out of the [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► universe [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► well you could you could read it going [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► to the next thing you could argue that [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► the minbari are in this state of [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► Arrested Development right because a [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► thousand years before as we see when [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► Babylon 4 gets it back in time and [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► Sinclair becomes valen and they fight [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► the shadow war the previous shadow war [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► they had spaceships and stuff then and [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► they were shaped a little differently [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► those little fishies that they fly [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► around in were a little rounder but um [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► they just are still doing the same stuff [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► thousand years later and why is that [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► that's because that's what the this [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► stasis that the galaxies in because the [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► shadows and the vorlons have been [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► playing this game for you know thousands [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► and thousands or millions of years and [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► and I I thought that was really great [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► because that is showing you that they [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► you know yet for the for the world's too [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► advanced for the [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► galaxy to advance they gotta leave they [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► got they got to let let everybody the [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► parents have to let the kids grow up and [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► that's a one of the interesting way to [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► resolve that that story and it's setup [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► it's not a made-up thing is set up all [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► the way through but it's a really nice [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► payoff that's very surprising if it's [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► not good versus evil it's two styles of [TS]

00:53:28 ◼   ► parenting both feel right no apparent [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► that says I'm gonna be very strict and [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► my kid play the piano and you know clean [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► up the room and the other parent goes [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► now I'm not my kid do whatever they want [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► and you know let them go their own way [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► and and don't eventually learn from [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► mistakes etc whatever the basketball [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► coach yells at their players versus the [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► one who becomes a father figure to all [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► of them and they both have their their [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► their their plan because the shadows [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► goal is to make everybody better and [TS]

00:53:55 ◼   ► stronger and more resilient self-reliant [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► I mean there they are evil in a way but [TS]

00:54:01 ◼   ► that they don't necessarily have evil an [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► evil plan for the end result they're not [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► trying to kill everybody [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► they were are going to kill lots of [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► people because that's what they're going [TS]

00:54:11 ◼   ► to do and that's bad but in the end they [TS]

00:54:13 ◼   ► just want you know that they want to [TS]

00:54:15 ◼   ► help our evolution along by making [TS]

00:54:18 ◼   ► everybody fight and and improve [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► themselves in order to survive the fight [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► and more chaotic neutral i would say but [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► not not to say the word evil people on [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► the show right mr. Morden clearly he was [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► possessed but yeah like it [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► he was right and that's not you know we [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► haven't talked without one of my [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► favorite characters are you know in [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► check off [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► uh-oh faster ah yes faster was also [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► denied especially his interactions [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► through out the series with Garibaldi [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► yeah great character great great [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► showcase for for Walter cannock yeah [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► really he managed to you know get out of [TS]

00:54:56 ◼   ► the checkoff mold I didn't know he was [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► going to pull it off the first time like [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► you know he guest-starred and it was [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► just perfectly play again character [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► interactions his interaction with [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► Garibaldi the whole time kind of up and [TS]

00:55:07 ◼   ► through the fifth season was just [TS]

00:55:11 ◼   ► wonderful that [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► how can mr. Garibaldi the Garibaldi [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► cigar Baldy says the best i'm gonna bite [TS]

00:55:19 ◼   ► of something to beat you like a pinata [TS]

00:55:21 ◼   ► investors as oh so you think of me as a [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► bright festive decorative item filled [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► with treats and candy for little [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► children [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► Thank You mr. Garibaldi I like the [TS]

00:55:32 ◼   ► dynamic to decide the whole psyche or [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► element which is again you know one of [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► these layers of the of the of the world [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► building here that there are telepaths [TS]

00:55:41 ◼   ► and humans this happened recently with [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► turns out because there's been you know [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► manipulation of humanity by the shadows [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► i believe is how the right that was that [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► was the payoff there but um that they so [TS]

00:55:53 ◼   ► you get you get the telepath 1st its 1st [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► it's talia and later it's late alexander [TS]

00:55:57 ◼   ► comes back from the pilot and you've got [TS]

00:55:59 ◼   ► a you've got ivana whose mother was a [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► telepath and that there's this dead deal [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► with the telepaths where they either [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► have to be in the psyche or they have to [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► take these terrible drugs that basically [TS]

00:56:09 ◼   ► make them fade away and then they die [TS]

00:56:11 ◼   ► and and that was a fascinating layer [TS]

00:56:14 ◼   ► that there's their debt the dynamic with [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► Bester and the psyche or and they [TS]

00:56:18 ◼   ► represent sort of the worst of earth and [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► humanity sometimes except not always [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► because they are well-rounded people too [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► and then you've got like the other [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► people who are who have their reasons to [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► be offended by them whether they just [TS]

00:56:30 ◼   ► aren't telepathic they have terrible [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► secret in their family history like [TS]

00:56:34 ◼   ► ivana I think that's one of the things [TS]

00:56:36 ◼   ► that's so great about Babylon 5 is that [TS]

00:56:38 ◼   ► you had people are well-rounded and you [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► get to see the characters in the stories [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► from so many different points of view I [TS]

00:56:45 ◼   ► mean talking about cycle you have the [TS]

00:56:47 ◼   ► chorus mother the course father where [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► you get to see a whole story from [TS]

00:56:51 ◼   ► Esther's point-of-view sort of her from [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► the point of view of up to two adoring [TS]

00:56:56 ◼   ► lackeys of investors who are following [TS]

00:56:58 ◼   ► him around and then you have a couple [TS]

00:57:00 ◼   ► episodes looking at the station from the [TS]

00:57:03 ◼   ► the media point of view or in a [TS]

00:57:05 ◼   ► documentary or the news and then you get [TS]

00:57:07 ◼   ► a view from the gallery where you have [TS]

00:57:09 ◼   ► the maintenance workers looking at so [TS]

00:57:11 ◼   ► you have all these different sort of [TS]

00:57:12 ◼   ► oblique angles that you're staring at [TS]

00:57:15 ◼   ► these beloved characters from and it [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► just makes them seem more well-rounded [TS]

00:57:18 ◼   ► more real and i like that are our [TS]

00:57:21 ◼   ► Babylon 5 super fans in the chat room by [TS]

00:57:23 ◼   ► the way point out and I i remember this [TS]

00:57:24 ◼   ► now i knew i wasn't sure about it it's [TS]

00:57:26 ◼   ► the 4 line [TS]

00:57:27 ◼   ► it's created the telepaths yeah and then [TS]

00:57:29 ◼   ► the shadows tried to wipe my life [TS]

00:57:31 ◼   ► because as it turns out tell pastor bad [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► for shadows and they don't like that so [TS]

00:57:36 ◼   ► there you go [TS]

00:57:37 ◼   ► although they're also playing that [TS]

00:57:38 ◼   ► they're also playing the long game [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► because they're either trying to wipe [TS]

00:57:41 ◼   ► the mountain they did wipe them out of [TS]

00:57:43 ◼   ► the nards or they try to subvert them [TS]

00:57:45 ◼   ► which is what they do by infiltrating [TS]

00:57:46 ◼   ► the psyche or methods its layers and [TS]

00:57:49 ◼   ► layers and i love that freaky shadows [TS]

00:57:51 ◼   ► there's one other one other thing I [TS]

00:57:54 ◼   ► wanted to if you'll forgive me a doctor [TS]

00:57:56 ◼   ► who reference because I'm contractually [TS]

00:57:57 ◼   ► obligated i was waiting for it i think [TS]

00:58:01 ◼   ► the whole message of this show can be [TS]

00:58:04 ◼   ► you can borrow a line from up you can [TS]

00:58:07 ◼   ► borrow a scene actually from the first [TS]

00:58:09 ◼   ► season of the rebooted Doctor Who when [TS]

00:58:12 ◼   ► Rose is sitting in the diner with her [TS]

00:58:15 ◼   ► family and saying it you have to make a [TS]

00:58:18 ◼   ► stand sometimes you have to do the right [TS]

00:58:20 ◼   ► thing you have to do what's right even [TS]

00:58:22 ◼   ► when it's difficult that's what I think [TS]

00:58:24 ◼   ► this is us this is a story about taking [TS]

00:58:28 ◼   ► agency on whether it whether it's the [TS]

00:58:31 ◼   ► human race throwing off the shackles of [TS]

00:58:33 ◼   ► the four lines in the shadows and making [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► their own destiny or or or if it's a [TS]

00:58:39 ◼   ► personal story like all of the many many [TS]

00:58:43 ◼   ► opportunities Londo has for redemption [TS]

00:58:45 ◼   ► that he just throws away because he [TS]

00:58:48 ◼   ► claims he doesn't have a choice for me [TS]

00:58:52 ◼   ► that's that's the soul of this show and [TS]

00:58:54 ◼   ► it's the reason why it stuck with me for [TS]

00:58:56 ◼   ► so many years it's a very human story [TS]

00:58:58 ◼   ► about your responsibilities the [TS]

00:59:01 ◼   ► responsibilities you have the choices [TS]

00:59:04 ◼   ► that you make as long as says in no [TS]

00:59:07 ◼   ► surrender no retreat [TS]

00:59:08 ◼   ► I've made some poor decisions which is a [TS]

00:59:12 ◼   ► bit of an understatement and chicken [TS]

00:59:15 ◼   ► rolls his eyes like really think maybe [TS]

00:59:19 ◼   ► maybe a little th but it shows that this [TS]

00:59:22 ◼   ► isn't in terms of central themes though [TS]

00:59:24 ◼   ► it's great when you have [TS]

00:59:26 ◼   ► that is great when you have an entire [TS]

00:59:28 ◼   ► series that has been created and pretty [TS]

00:59:30 ◼   ► much one single handily written by one [TS]

00:59:32 ◼   ► person that was where the beginning the [TS]

00:59:34 ◼   ► middle and the end every major beat was [TS]

00:59:37 ◼   ► set up by one person wasn't that we're [TS]

00:59:39 ◼   ► so he was surprised to get a first [TS]

00:59:41 ◼   ► season pickup so now has to make up what [TS]

00:59:43 ◼   ► is what's gonna happen this season 2 [TS]

00:59:44 ◼   ► because now and when you listen to him [TS]

00:59:46 ◼   ► to the commentaries on the dvds he will [TS]

00:59:48 ◼   ► tell you exactly what he had in mind for [TS]

00:59:50 ◼   ► the entire series and the commentary for [TS]

00:59:53 ◼   ► whatever episode i was watching [TS]

00:59:54 ◼   ► yesterday he was saying that no this is [TS]