The Incomparable

00:00:00 ◼   ► the incomparable number 196 may 2014 [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► welcome back to the uncomfortable [TS]

00:00:16 ◼   ► podcast on your host Jason L&I we often [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► talk about the hugo award sci-fi novel [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► nominees every year we will do that but [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► we just couldn't help ourselves there [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► was a largely different group of novels [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► that was not only for the nebula awards [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► which come from the science-fiction [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► writers of america and instead of [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► America there is an association are they [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► are they terrible and it's America [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► anti-americanism America ok well it's [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► alright we also did establish last year [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► that locust or locust notnot first of [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► locusts are not locusts they are not [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► sort of mantis related things it's [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► locusts and they're not from England [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► there from Oakland apparently so I still [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► think I still think they're from England [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► I've heard he may be English but they [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► live in oakland and they are not locust [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► that's the two anyway I don't even wow [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► that is that is a we are off the rails [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► early anyway the point is that we read a [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► lot of the nebula nominees are some some [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► of us read all of them i believe and and [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► because there were eight nominees and [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► because not all of our regular panelist [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► want to read that much because they're [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► illiterate people largely been more and [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► we're talking about you [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► I for I've enlisted some stars from [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► other science-fiction related podcast to [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► come join us and read some of the nebula [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► nominees with his very exciting this is [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► like a crossover episode like when when [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► like spider-man meets the avengers it's [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► that kind of thing and and Daredevils in [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► there too and Scott your daredevil [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► anyway some ability is here Scott and I [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► read everything it's got literally read [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► every book that's published hi Scott [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► hello to have year good i don't there a [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► lot of new people on this podcast are [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► you are you feeling comfortable are you [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► uncomfortable I am slightly [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► uncomfortable right all right well well [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► but that's normal though so [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► alright so you're here at your user well [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► then great [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► exactly alright we have three excellent [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► special guest stars a long time [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► mr. sense since like episode eight at [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► least Fred cash i am I've mispronounced [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► your name in the past but I hope I got [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► it right this time you gotta write we [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► can hear you on SF signal and the three [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► horsemen which is like a spin-off of the [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► SF signal right that was when a the host [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► of SF signal Patrick Hester was working [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► like 90 hours a week we tried to do [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► something to fill in and it's become [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► into its own i love spin-off podcast [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► I've got we've got like 10 of them now [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► you know it's out of control but yeah [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► it's great podcast can do that they can [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► spin things are off its good i also pole [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► lemurs hear you may know him from the [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► excellent Hugo nominated skippy and [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► fancy podcast and SF signal both hello [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► hello hello my name is fully my also [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► been known to pop up on other things I [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► been on the three horsemen I been on SF [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► or do a couple times and I get mention [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► other podcasts you make it around well [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► now you can add another one to your [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► right to your list like that until i get [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► another ticket box the list yeah that's [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► right your honor lots of podcast you may [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► know him from podcasting and Sean Duke [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► who is a one of the prime movers behind [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► the skinny and fancy podcast which got [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► nominated for Hugo and are you going to [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► London for worldcon that have you have [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► you made it across the finish line with [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► your up with your funding I i well I am [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► now just trying to raise what I'm [TS]

00:03:35 ◼   ► calling food-related fun right uh-huh so [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► you'll be there but we don't know if [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► you're gonna eat ya what i eat really [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► depends on on how many donations i get [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► before the end of the month so it could [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► be that I get to eat food that will not [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► kill me or it could be that i'm eating [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► whatever I find burger king when the [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► burger king in England is higher quality [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► food and it isn't us [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► yeah yeah they're made out of like I [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► don't know it's weird well it's because [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► the royalty the King you know they they [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► respect the king and in England burger [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► king here we would have to be like [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► burger [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► I don't know what burger President had [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► it was not advocating now [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► no they don't have any of the whole [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► royal they will they have you know maybe [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► anyway the topic is hamburgers way to [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► Central Jersey ahead of royal picture so [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► we should talk so there were there were [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► eight novels nominated for the nebula [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► award there was a winner [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► I guess we should I I its public [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► knowledge you and ancillary justice by [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► and lucky was the winner i should also [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► point out that we've talked about two of [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► these novels on previous episodes of the [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► incomparable we talk about ancillary [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► justice and we talked about the ocean at [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► the end of the lane by Neil Gaiman we [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► did an episode about that the other [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► nominees are well we'll just we'll take [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► them i think we'll take them in turn and [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► talk about what everybody thought of [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► them i think that might be the way and [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► we'll try to keep the spoilers light so [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► that you can listen if you're curious [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► and haven't read these novels because [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► chances are you probably haven't read [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► all eight unless you're a crazy person [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► like Scott let's start by ancillary [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► justice uh you know it [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► ancillary has one African justice is one [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► everything all the awards [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► it is been up for I think it's one more [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► or less and it's the and Lucky's first [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► novel and it's rather remarkable first [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► novel we loved it when we when we talked [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► about in the previous episode Scott said [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► last year he said it was the best book [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► he read last year right [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► it is true and this is gonna be great [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► because there's a book that you said was [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► the best book you've read so far this [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► year and a few episodes ago and it's [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► also nominated for the nebulous it's [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► very exciting so I'm wondering for Fred [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► Paul and Sean have you guys already [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► ancillary justice and what did you think [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► of it [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► I'll go freshen up yeah sure and I did [TS]

00:05:53 ◼   ► read it in in preparation for our own [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► mob interview with and lucky I chart and [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► I I think I can speak for trying like we [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► were blown away by it we got to read [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► relatively early and its cycle and get [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► to be part of building its momentum [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► towards its apparently print up [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► acquisition of every award is being [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► nominated for I i really liked i really [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► like the writing i really like the idea [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► she threw out I I was not thrown off by [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► it and this is but for podcast have [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► talked about it that this happened [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► counting the three horsemen so yeah i'm [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► a big fan of a like he's worked here [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► what do you think's wrong yeah I would [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► agree it's currently the the novel that [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► is very likely to get my vote for the [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► hugo since it's also [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► up for that award I and I when we read [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► it and we talked to and like you've [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► added i mean it it was one of those [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► books where we got a slew of novels that [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► are very nostalgia oriented and we got [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► this one that was not and it was just [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► doing all these very interesting [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► different things with for example I mean [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► the very first chapter I'm not spoiling [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► anything it's completely disrupts our [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► conceptions of gender right and pronouns [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► and i love that I love that moment where [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► I'm like what is going on and then once [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► I figure out what's going to go [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► oh that's really clever it's really a [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► useful way and i love the world-building [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► it also does a colonialism which is like [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► my academic interest so I kind of [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► latched onto that like a leech it was [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► good [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► so yeah I mean overall i think it's it's [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► a really solid novel it's not a perfect [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► double but it's also a first novel and [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► it's this good for first novel is really [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► quite impressive [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► yeah that's the thing is the first novel [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► i read it and i just thought how can [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► this be i mean I imagine she's written a [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► lot of things that she you know she [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► never got published never thought were [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► good enough by but I mean good god it is [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► so accomplished for first novel amazing [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► yeah Fred what do you think I enjoyed it [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► as well and I experience to both as an [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► e-book and an audiobook and one thing [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► that I pointed out earlier another [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► podcast that ball was on with that the [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► experience of listening to it gave me a [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► different perspective of the characters [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► than the experience of reading it so for [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► anybody who is a member of the audible [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► order another service i would recommend [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► giving it a listen because the narrator [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► is quite good and it was an interesting [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► different experience one of the things i [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► we i am going to do my footnote now [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► episode 179 of the uncomfortable we [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► talked about it along with the lies of [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► locke lamora I Scott Lynch [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► ah the the it is space opera it is it's [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► got a lot of big ideas it's got some [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► very interesting things about about [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► colonialism I like how there's this kind [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► of question when when you're given [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► Layton Layton the book this decision [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► between sort of a choice between two [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► sides in this is Keller Empire it's not [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► a good guys and the bad guys it's sort [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► of like [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► you know one set of guys and another set [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► of really no bad guys but the other guys [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► are particularly good the gender issues [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► are off also very interesting as as as [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► we mentioned earlier and that i will say [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► it reminded me and I don't know why I [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► keep saying this but it reminded me sort [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► of the feeling I got when I read the [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► left hand of darkness by ursula leguin [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► it was it was new it it it like the the [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► cold planet it starts on reminded me of [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► like win and and left hand of darkness [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► and the all of the kind of we're going [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► to question your issues about who these [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► people are and about gender & about [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► their and and about identity and it [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► brought that back it was that it was [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► that was the book that it reminded me [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► the most of the three or thurs i was [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► most reminded of what were look when but [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► also john varley especially these things [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► like the old fiocchi hotline which you [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► wrote in the late seventies uh-huh and [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► then in banks any number of the culture [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► books [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► oh yeah yeah very much very much like [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► banks yeah [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► yep you like any of those authors i [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► would recommend this one highly so i got [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► i got to assume that even though and [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► like he is a is a first-time novelist [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► that you knew I gotta assume she's the [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► favorite for the hugo at this point [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► should night just because she's won [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► everything else or or is the the [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► presence of the wheel of time on the [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► hugo ballad looming fit presence will [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► the wheel of time knock out the street [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► puppies and vice versa [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► mm that's a possibility at Endor but not [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► putting stuff into the packet8 this I [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► don't know what to read for this hugo [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► balance focus is going to win this so [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► much politics and cross-purposes going [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► on by you I don't know what's gonna rise [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► to the top [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► anything could happen it would look like [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► in a normal if you're looking normal [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► momentum it would look like ancillary [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► justice we had to be the favorite just [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► because it has won all these other major [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► awards but we we who knows i think [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► answer justice is is the favorite in in [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► terms of what is there on the ballot but [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► the voting process is going to be the [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► thing that's going to determine what [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► happens because it could be that the as [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► fred was pointing out this sad puppy [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► ballot could be the thing that like they [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► just mobilize really efficiently and [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► somehow [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► get enough votes in or it could be the [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► same thing for wheel of time if the the [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► people who voted that into be on the [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► ballot the first place if they get [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► enough people to vote for that or it [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► could be the orbit thing could knock [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► some of them out [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► I i suspect answer justice is still [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► going to take it and I would be very [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► surprised if it didn't because I don't [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► think we love time is gonna eat and [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► nobody's gonna read the whole downtown [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► and it's not gonna happen i'm not i'm [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► not gonna make it i'm sorry it's like we [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► have the vote and when we have the vote [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► like in two months [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► yeah somebody up yeah not gonna happen [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► this is no but it comes up from [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► everybody here for ancillary justice I [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► mean it's really good and if you like [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► space opera and if you like in banks and [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► if you like the left hand of darkness so [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► I mean there's so many different things [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► like if you like do you like books that [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► are did a really good because the [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► ancillary justice is really good [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► absolutely alright everybody Scott [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► anything to say you already endorsed [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► this like 10 times on this podcast i did [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► i said all I need to say about wrestler [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► just it's good good book [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► I let's move on to another nominee we [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► are all completely beside ourselves by [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► care enjoy fattler this is a book again [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► I don't want to spoil too much its [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► territory Fowler is a science fiction [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► writer i would argue that this is not in [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► any way a science-fiction book this is [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► the book that maybe think let me look at [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► the rules of the negative two which i [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► found out that though the navel is [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► awarded to the year's best science [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► fiction or fantasy book they do not [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► define what science fiction or fantasy [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► is so when up there said their science [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► in it there is science it is a book it [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► is a book of fiction that feature [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► science so it is science fiction and [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► it's uh a woman narrates this story of [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► her life and her upbringing and she's [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► being raised in an environment where her [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► upbringing is essentially part of a [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► scientific experiment and it has an [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► impact on her life and her siblings and [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► her family and you know I thought this [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► was beautiful i loved it i recommended [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► to my wife and then she read it i [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► thought you know it's sad and [TS]

00:13:17 ◼   ► happy and funny and sad again uh but [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► it's not but it's not science fiction so [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► if i were a nebula voter or fitted made [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► for Hugo's i don't think i would have [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► ranked particularly highly even though I [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► I'll i really liked it I liked it it was [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► one of the it certainly in the top half [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► of the of of my enjoyment of the nebula [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► nominees that i read but I i am kind of [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► stopped by the fact that you know [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► although it's a i think a good novel and [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► I liked it a lot it's also not science [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► fiction [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► well as it's speculative fiction doesn't [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► mean you said that it has scientific [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► elements so now it seems like it could [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► be real but it's not right so it's hard [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► to talk about this book without spoiling [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► a central point of it although the cover [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► art sort of spoils that but it does but [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► it'sit's yeah so I mean there are there [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► primate I mean they're primate [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► experiments in the book and and there's [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► a question is sort of like these the [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► proud the primates are okay I'm gonna [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► fire off a really quiet spoiler or in [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► here and then you can come back in like [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► two minutes and we'll we'll probably be [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► done [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► she's raised with a chimpanzee as her [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► sister and that has a huge impact on her [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► life [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► the narrator's life and her brother's [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► life and her parents life and you know [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► and so that I think those sorts of [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► experiments actually happened so it [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► seems fictional but it doesn't seem [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► outside the realm of something that just [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► actually happened in history so I'm not [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► quite sure it's anymore it's much more [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► speculative than any other kind of [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► fiction [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► well this could be mean it sounds like a [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► slightly more conventional book than [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► what Roger McBride Allen did once where [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► he had Neanderthals but it sounds like a [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► better version then what a a certain [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► michael crichton did once with congo [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► that's a good example [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► yeah i was thinking of that fried yeah [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► those are all this book is to compare me [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► this book to those books in like trying [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► to make it science fiction if you read [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► the book you you it is not science [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► fiction in any way shape or mean I mean [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► it's a really good book i liked it she [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► plays she does a lot of things with [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► because the the central character of the [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► book has this traumatic experience that [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► kind of really reverberates across her [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► life and she questions her own memories [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► and you don't know if you can rely on [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► what she's telling you and she has this [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► kind of weird relationship with her [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► brother and her parents and you know she [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► grew up with a chimpanzee and it's it's [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► it's a wonderful book but it is not [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► science fiction and it's not like you [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► know it isn't like the Congo or [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► reanimated in the other followers [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► it's like it's like Saul stuff that [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► basically has has happened in some form [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► so it's remix and kind of historical [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► events I don't know they did it's a good [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► question what do we do we define science [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► fiction regardless of whether it's [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► science fiction or not those I don't [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► know which of you guys read it but speak [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► up and what do you think of it as a [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► novel because I really did enjoy it i [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► just i I just didn't it was a little [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► baffled about while I was on the list [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► i I didn't read it but listening to the [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► discussion maybe think of your not that [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► it's directly related but the the [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► william gibson books that came later in [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► his life the weird ones with the [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► country Padraig action yeah those books [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► out which in some cases are are so like [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► our present that it's kind of hard to [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► disentangle them as speculative so that [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► indicates that that's all the last thing [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► I had to say on that because this is one [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► of the ones I was not able to get to [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► know I think I even the gibson i love [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► that I love those though that recent the [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► recent trilogy from Gibson but even they [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► are getting feel like he's he's pushing [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► it it's like like Max Headroom it's 20 [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► minutes into the future it's like [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► there's just something in it that is not [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► it you know that like that like in the [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► first one there's the the the footage in [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► there are people putting together the [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► footage in Russia somewhere and all that [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► it's it's almost today but it's not [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► quite and this feels completely like [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► yeah this all could have happened and it [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► seems very mainstream novel to me but [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► it's excellent [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► you know many people that were raised by [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► chips are not many but I i believe that [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► i believe it actually have I I just all [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► of our radiolab story where they were [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► talking about a chimpanzee where they [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► tried to race chimpanzee as human and [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► that worked for a while and then things [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► went horribly wrong you know [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► so in the end when I heard about this [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► book i read in our service like it feels [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► the radiolab story and didn't feel very [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► SF well to me and so I didn't go ahead [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► and read it because I thought I i think [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► i know this story's was thinking at the [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► time and just put it off i would [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► recommend it to people i think it I [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► think it's a very good book but don't go [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► in expecting that there's going to be [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► the secret twist is that she was [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► implanted with with primate DNA and is I [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► mean none of that is it's just a it's [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► just like a memoir of somebody who lived [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► through a very strange childhood where [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► her scientists parents made her [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► childhood part of their experiment had a [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► deep impact on her and the rest of her [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► family and as that it's beautifully [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► written it really is you know Scott [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► would you great just really nice book he [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► i was about to say that it was [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► beautifully written so you you took the [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► words right out of my mouth I was it is [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► a fantastic book if you only are [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► interested in you know sci-fi/fantasy [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► you should probably skip this book but [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► it is a great book i enjoyed it very [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► much [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► yeah I I don't inflict many of the books [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► that i read on my wife and this one was [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► like you should read this you should [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► read this next it's it's that good and [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► she did and she liked a lot so and and [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► that that's yeah okay so we are all [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► completely beside ourselves by karen joy [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► fowler highly recommended by me and [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► Scott not science fiction really but but [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► she's science fiction writer the [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► science-fiction writers of america know [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► her and they nominated her book because [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► it's good and I can't blame them for [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► that like it is it's a good book a test [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► sites it and I just have scientist [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► fiction I let's move on to the ocean at [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► the end of the lane much has been said [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► about this we did episode 155 of the [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► incomparable about it [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► neil gaiman shockingly not nominated for [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► the hugo I nominated him but I nothing i [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► nominate ever gets nominated so I and I [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► so you can refer to that episode and [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► Scott my are Scott wasn't on that [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► episode Scott did you ever read this [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► book I when you were doing that episode [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► I refused to read it but i have in fact [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► red home [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► well mostly because I I I refused to [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► read it mostly because of under the [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► hated things about people who annoy me [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► but for the book itself was the life for [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► ya I i mean i think it was beautiful [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► I'm really nice enjoyable story [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► what do you guys think Fred what do you [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► read this one [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► I in fact read twice my december january [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► me at if um Stardust was his homage to [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► Lord Dunsany I thought this one was more [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► like a no Maj to mr james everybody's [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► have read him you kind of have a pretty [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► normal background with something not [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► quite right going on at the edges and [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► the edges get closer and closer towards [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► the center we need seems to be pretty [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► autobiographical except when it gets [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► really strange which is interesting [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► because you know what he worked into the [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► story short i enjoy enjoy a short book [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► rather than a big fat book every now and [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► then and very economical [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► I agree it's gets right to the point and [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► scares the heck out of him some points [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► Sean you read this one yeah this is one [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► actually finished today while and I i [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► would agree with Fred one of the very [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► first things I noticed about this book [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► is I stop them to me and said to myself [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► this feels very autobiographical not [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► knowing enough about gaming myself to [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► actually like say that with any other [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► and you know authority but it it seemed [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► like it was very much dealing with his [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► own childhood and then obviously as it [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► goes on it becomes increasingly strange [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► or you know in the sort of game in way [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► that things that are kind of dark and [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► mysterious and like even even the the [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► little family that that's at the ocean [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► at the end of the line they even though [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► they're kind of I guess the good guys [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► there's always this weird unsettled [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► feeling about them throughout the whole [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► thing and then that never really goes [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► away even in the final chapter I think [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► that's very much stays there and I think [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► that's something that's very familiar [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► for gaming fans and a lot of his work [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► even start Stardust has a lot of that [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► feeling I think throughout much fun [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► starts happens to be my favorite game [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► and novels so but i like this one quite [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► a bit [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► I didn't think it was his best book but [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► that's because Stardust remains my [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► favorite and that's first completely [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► sentimental silly reasons so yeah I [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► really like american gods and i don't i [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► don't think i would put this over that [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► but I I liked it a lot you're right it [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► feels the when you started you are [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► wondering to yourself if you're reading [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► of a memoir and you get the feeling that [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► he must have poured some of his his [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► childhood into this the bit with the car [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► actually happened to him and his family [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► really I did I think I didn't pick up on [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► that yeah i read this i read this too I [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► did it did feel very much like he was [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► pouring out some of his childhood into [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► this novel felt like a a fairytale [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► version of events of his of his [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► childhood it it was it feels like the [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► anti-american god save you mentioned [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► about government as far as it's very [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► spare it's very sure it's very compact I [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► i devoutly i devoured this quickly [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► during my up during my up plane rides [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► this last just last weekend so it's just [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► it's just flew right by in the middle [TS]

00:23:15 ◼   ► middle play [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► and the next thing i know it's god it's [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► over like well is it if if III when we [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► were doing i need to read it again like [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► friended maybe I can soak into it more [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► maybe I great almost too fast and I [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► didn't quite realize just how short and [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► compact it really was but it's I do [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► think he's getting better as a writer I [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► i I've heard that's we're still waiting [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► for the perfect game and novel I don't [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► think this is it either but i guess we [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► guess he keeps circling or triangulating [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► looking for his masterwork if American [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► guys is that I don't know what it will [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► be [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► maybe there's some just a perfect game [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► in novel for everybody and he just keeps [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► hitting near the bullseye [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► no I suspect that his his greatest work [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► is going to be Sandman yeah [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► regardless of what he had what else he's [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► doing that seems to be the work that [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► everybody thinks his greatest [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► achievement [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► although you know he he he seems to not [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► be satisfied with writing the same novel [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► over and over again because American [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► Gods hits a spot in me that the [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► graveyard book which i also really [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► enjoyed it does doesn't it hits a [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► different spot and this book feels very [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► different to me so even though they're [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► all kind of game any I do feel like he [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► is really reluctant to go just [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► completely back and do another book like [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► that one and well you know let's let's [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► do american gods again I feel like he [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► doesn't wanna push himself a little bit [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► and maybe that's why you know we're [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► still wondering what the ultimate neil [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► gaiman book is yeah [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► american gods two electric boogaloo yeah [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► it was like a Nancy boys is sort of [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► american gods to but it's not like [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► american gods really at all know very [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► very different up I didn't also like [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► that this book did some interesting [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► things with its horror elements that it [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► didn't stick with what could have been a [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► simple choice which is the supernatural [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► horror but it actually chose I guess [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► what you'd say like a family holds [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► familial Hornets exactly exactly exactly [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► it does that really well I mean there's [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► and i'm not going to say what the scene [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► is because we all know the scene when [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► boy and family and bad things and that [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► particular moment and [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► I wish he had dealt more with it later [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► on but there's a sort of is explained in [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► the final chapter why it's not but that [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► moment was like I had to stop for and [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► have like a break because I was like [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► what is going on right now because this [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► is insane and it's horrifying that's [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► even more horrifying than any of the [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► supernatural creatures i feel is that [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► moment we talk about when we talk about [TS]

00:25:51 ◼   ► this being autobiographical I think it's [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► telling in a way that the true horror in [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► this story is horror of things that [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► happen in the family horror that tears [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► the family apart being betrayed or or [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► thinking less of members of your family [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► because of things that they did that are [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► unfortunate and/or terrible fear of [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► members of your family i think that I [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► you know again not knowing neil gaiman [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► his life and not trying to psychoanalyze [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► him entirely through this work although [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► it's so tempting it I I feel like that's [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► really interesting that this comes from [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► a personal place this isn't some crazy [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► supernatural world inflicting horror on [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► you it's it's terrible things happening [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► to two or more caused by members of your [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► family really hits closer to home I [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► think boy yeah you don't even need to [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► say what seen it is anybody who's read [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► that book knows exactly what you're [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► talking about [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► hey I don't know if anyone has read [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► enough game to know whether this is the [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► first time he's dealt with [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► family-related abuse issues that's i'm [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► using that term like the most Vegas [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► sense i don't give anything away because [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► i don't recall if he has but i haven't [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► read everything by him i haven't read [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► anything by him either i feel like he [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► must have touched on these issues I mean [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► there's some stuff in Sandman even the [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► stuff of Sandman that I've read that I [TS]

00:27:05 ◼   ► feel is sort of like that to a little [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► bit but this is it just it seems so [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► personal and you're set up to feel it [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► being personal from those first few [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► chapters that seemed autobiographical [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► that I'm the whole that's part of the [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► trick to it is that is that he makes the [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► the whole betrayal all the terrible [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► things that happened feel personal [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► because it starts so personal [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► yeah absolutely i totally agree yeah [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► that more talk about this book the more [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► like it and more unsettled i become [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► because I start remembering things at [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► the details [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► it's really it's really unsettling book [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► i really recommend that if you've never [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► read a game and novel try this one it [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► too creepy oh well maybe not if you get [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► creeped out too easy i think it's odd [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► but I think it's gentle in another way I [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► mean some horrible things happen and yet [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► some of it i feel i feel is is kind of [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► gentleman and his game a novel schoo [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► also there are cats [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► yes really awesome cat is like cats [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► they're they're cats get sad sad things [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► about cats happy things about cats [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► all good things about cats are being [TS]

00:28:08 ◼   ► nebulous on this nebula podcast yes it's [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► the nebulous awards that we will win for [TS]

00:28:13 ◼   ► trying to spoil everything that happens [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► in all these novels [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► okay so everybody's going to kind of [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► give a pass to the ocean at the end of [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► the lane it sounds like yeah even Scott [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► who didn't want to read it I didn't want [TS]

00:28:29 ◼   ► to read but i did and it was nice [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► yeah he's a good writer I mean me [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► divorced from his his PR and his wife's [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► PR and all of that he's a really good [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► writer he really is mr. alright next [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► nice guy too [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► yeah I follow him on twitter and it's [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► one of those things that you shouldn't [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► follow writers you really like on [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► Twitter or get to know them too well [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► because you're worried that you [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► discovered that they're horrible people [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► but he does seem like an actually [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► genuinely nice guy [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► yeah let's move on to fire with fire by [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► charles ii Gannon this is a server I'm [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► trying I'm trying to keep the the more [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► military-themed stories separate this is [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► this is an interesting book because I [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► felt like there was sort of a couple [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► different books in here this is sort of [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► a book that starts out being a there's [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► like a guy on a it's like there's like a [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► guy with four oh my god there's so much [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► in here is like a guy on the moon and [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► he's and then he wakes up and he's on a [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► spaceship and it's like 13 years later [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► he's an investigative reporter [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► yeah and it could be like you could say [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► this is a spy novel yeah exceptexcept [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► there's a gear shift in the mail right [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► because I feeling was a couple of gear [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► shift the first half of the novel i feel [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► like is a sort of like there's this guy [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► and and some weird things happen and so [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► he sorted out of time a little bit but [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► he's investigating something that's [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► going on and and it there's this sort of [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► spy element of you know I'm done on this [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► planet and what's going on and trying to [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► mislead me and maybe there are aliens [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► down here but we don't really know if [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► they're aliens down here i'm gonna [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► figure it out and it's a little Indiana [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► Jones like and I thought all right I get [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► what this book is gonna be and then like [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► that you again and then it's what would [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► it would it be like if you were [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► negotiating with aliens about joining [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► their star Federation just like wow [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► that's just totally different book but [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► the book that I expected and so you know [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► it's it's a very interesting book it's [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► like several books and one hehe he has [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► co-written some stuff with Steve white [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► setting the Starfire series which based [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► on a a board game he worked for game [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► designers workshop on traveler and 2300 [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► ad which was a role-playing game in the [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► eighties nineties and this feels very [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► much like 2308 including some of the [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► same stars are used in the game in this [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► book was like oh yeah and you're a [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► friend of mine is talking arised in this [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► which was really amusing the without [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► saying anything [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► the the ill-fated lieutenant we've upon [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► a certain ship in the asteroid belt is a [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► friend of mine huh [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► it's nice yeah as with so many bein cut [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► books the cover is kind of embarrassing [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► like this is this book it's like a guy [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► in a little bubble ship firing and at [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► things and that governs really i'm not [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► quite sure what that cover is supposed [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► to be but in all fairness it's not the [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► worse it's really not in the picture I [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► mean it looks he looks kind of like a [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► real person he doesn't look like they [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► used some sort of like weird cg clipart [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► that they got her like a dollar so you [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► know i'll give them props friend and not [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► an o schedule a cat clad women like on [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► the dominant cleanser not books all guys [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► are terrible yeah it's not that not the [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► best not the best cover but yeah your [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► report you're right it's probably not [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► the worst [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► so what did what did people so like I [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► said it it struck me as being a very [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► different kind of [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► there's a right-hand turn in the middle [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► of this book was like wow okay and i [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► liked both of the kind of book it was I [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► like the I like the art who these aliens [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► there's a mystery there there's an [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► unresolved mystery which did kind of bug [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► me where it's like well will you know [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► you could probably figure this out [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► read the next book and you'll find out [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► more but then the right-hand turn to the [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► other thing I was like all right now [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► we're in this side of politics and [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► negotiation and learning about who these [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► aliens are and how they how they get [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► along and and I thought that or don't [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► get along as the case may be there isn't [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► nice to be invited to a club and then [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► discover when when you're at your first [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► meeting that everybody in the club hate [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► each other [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► essentially the the message here because [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► the aliens are not also it's not like [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► they're joining hands and sing Kumbaya [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► this is not that kind of there's a lot [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► of politics going on [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► so what everybody else does everybody [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► else think Scott what do you think I i [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► enjoyed it i thought it was fun i did [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► have trouble with the main character and [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► with the the main female characters [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► relationship [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► the main character is like Cain Reardon [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► he's good at and fleece could everything [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► that's right he could solve all our [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► problems because he's he's good at [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► everything [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► don't don't question his methods he's [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► good he's good he's not great at being a [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► spy he'll learn but he's good at [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► everything else that's right we could [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► teach him have a spy but we can't teach [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► you how to think like him so I thought [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► that was a bit much and then they have [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► this strong [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► well what I thought might be a strong [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► female character who is also a drift in [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► time and she is a decorated military [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► officer supposed to be his bodyguard but [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► really her whole reason for being in the [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► book is that so he'll fall in love with [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► her and that they can then use their [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► relationship as kind of a pond to make [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► him continue to be a spy for the shadowy [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► organization which I thought was kind of [TS]

00:33:59 ◼   ► a missed opportunity with a female [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► character in this book [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► yeah there's a lot of III think [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► descriptions of the descriptions of the [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► women characters in the book are are [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► sometimes a little unfortunate where I [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► felt like it was very very kind of [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► old-school like she was a ravishing [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► beauty and let me describe her to you [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► and then he was you know so i think [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► that's fair [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► I think they're in the main character [TS]

00:34:22 ◼   ► definitely is like he's just mr.perfect [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► he's great he's literally he is good at [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► everything that's true what everybody [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► else think who read this book [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► Fred did you read this 1i i'm almost [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► done with it [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► alright well I mean yeah whatever [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► terrible long yeah I can protect you [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► guys at the end no many times in a in [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► this time when he pretended yes but I [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► mean I enjoyed the the hard science [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► fiction but this was the hard science [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► fiction entry for this year's crop and I [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► think he's setting up for a long series [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► and I like some of the NCS dropping so I [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► can see where it's going his military [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► stuff is pretty authentic arm and a [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► James P Hogan vibe at a couple points [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► yes that's I actually that i was going [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► to say that but I wasn't sure if anybody [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► else would remember him [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► I grew up and he lived in my town my [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► hometown actually hot [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► sonora california for many before you [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► got the crazy train right after you got [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► three it was I think he boarded the [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► crazy train while he was in Sonora but [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► uh but the it had an inherent the Stars [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► kind of feeling away because there's a [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► there's an impossible when he goes down [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► on the planet the beginning right [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► there's this sort of thing that is [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► they're presented that's like how is [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► this is impossible how could this be and [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► that that was a very much like inherit [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► the Stars where it's like I'm just gonna [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► I'm gonna mention something that's [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► impossible and you guys are gonna have [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► to start thinking with me about how I [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► might resolve this [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► this magic trick that I'm doing but even [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► part of that I was kind of like and I [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► don't really buy it but certain other [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► sequence shortly before that involving [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► another Android all all say was I [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► actually thought was well written was [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► kind of neat was like putting together [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► oh wait a minute [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► oh no that key oh Michael yes you know [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► like yeah I just thought that was a good [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► part yeah there's there's some really [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► nice kind of almost first contact first [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► ? contact stuff that is really creepy [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► and interesting and i love i love jack [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► mcdevitt is a is a i'm not sure i would [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► say guilty because I is a pleasure to [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► read i love those books there are a lot [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► of fun and I like the word on a planet [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► who knows if there are aliens here and [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► maybe there's a dead long-dead [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► civilization or maybe they're not [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► completely dead and and the mystery and [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► that kind of almost Indiana Jones kind [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► of feeling of exploration that's another [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► good comparison for this one who's that [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► the first part of the book feels like [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► that and then it then it goes in a very [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► different direction who I anybody else [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► read this one I just started it I didn't [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► really get that far into it now i do [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► want to continue reading especially [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► since we've had the these mild spoilers [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► i can I want to see where I want to see [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► worry goes but yeah I don't have enough [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► to really form o.a.r impression of it [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► yet [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► I'm not enough that i haven't put it [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► down which is John I unfortunately have [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► not read it although fred was explaining [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► to me earlier that the similarities but [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► she's already noted to traveler which [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► was a game that i bought a whole bunch [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► of books of when I was a teenager but [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► never got to play so I i do now want to [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► read it based on that that reference but [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► it is one unfortunately I didn't get to [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► I'd say it's almost like the first half [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► of the book is jack mcdevitt and the [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► second half is maybe david brin kind of [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► uplifting a little bit different also [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► not one of my favorite people in the [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► world but I love those uplift books and [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► it feels like that in the sense that you [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► its humanity discovering that the the [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► universe is a lot more complicated and [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► that they made they may not be you know [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► they may be it upon in someone else's [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► game or they may not and they have to [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► find their own way and there's a lot of [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► that kind of vibe happening in the [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► second half and yeah it was fun I I you [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► know if I had any any complaints beyond [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► the main character being perfect and [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► like Scott said the the the woman [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► character maybe not being having enough [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► of her own motivation for what she does [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► and it's the that their stuff that is [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► really teed up in terms of there are [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► some plot revelations about what they [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► find them at planet that are like [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► literally just never dealt with again [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► that that it's clear it's sort of like [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► we'll you know that's another book next [TS]

00:38:33 ◼   ► book will talk about why they found that [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► thing on that planet later but it was [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► fun [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► it's just weird because it's too it's [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► like two books in one it literally as if [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► you if you if you're not really enjoying [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► the first half just keep reading this [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► another book in there i probably will [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► not be reading the second book [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► yeah well it unless it gets nominated [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► for something I might I might depends [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► i'll see what people think of it but you [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► know it was it was a it was kind of fun [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► it was yeah it was definitely not one of [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► those that i picked up and I and when I [TS]

00:39:03 ◼   ► was done I I said boy can't believe that [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► book 2 is now yet I i believe the ark is [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► out I couldn't believe i have a copy [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► right i will be reading right so fire [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► with fire [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► I thought was yeah I was fine that was [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► fun and if any of those uh author names [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► that we rattled off their structure [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► right then you should give it a read [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► alright let's move on did anybody but [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► Scott Reed hill by nicola Griffith I did [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► not I did not all right Scott is all [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► like it's all on you I i bought i [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► actually bought it and Scott said don't [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► read it [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► don't worry well I mean it's a really [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► let me say this it's it's another [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► beautifully written book it's incredibly [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► long it is not science fiction or [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► fantasy in any shape or form other than [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► the fact that so it's set in a it's [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► about Hildebrand who's an actual [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► historical figure she was in I forget [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► the timeframe medieval times i'm [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► assuming don't like this 700 700 or [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► something like that [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► Hildegard von Bingen I believe I'm [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► saying held up wait [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► ok ok chart yes so she is viewed as a [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► seer by some the pita the king and her [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► mother setting up to to be viewed as [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► this year but she openly admits that she [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► has no mystical power she just observes [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► things that other people are things that [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► other people don't notice and then draws [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► logical conclusions based on the fact [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► that she's seen around her and then when [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► she's proven right people think that she [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► has mystical abilities but she does not [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► have any missile abilities and so it's [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► the story of her maybe like 10 years of [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► her life [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► it's beautifully written it is not [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► fantasy [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► it is historical fiction it's pretty [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► much straight historical fiction so [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► check it out if you want to read like an [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► 800-page book that [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► its hilt was really good alright and on [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► page 801 of Connie Willis's [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► time-traveling people just steps through [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► a door and goes hey haha except in the [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► end [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► hey rube science fiction done i was this [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► was the other one that maybe we can look [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► at the rules ridiculous to figure out [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► why I mean based on if you're just [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► looking at how well it was written it's [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► clearly a nominee worthy but once again [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► it you're putting it into a science [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► fiction and fantasy award and I don't [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► know how it fits in the genre but it is [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► a novel and genre novel if his honor or [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► author righted says it's john or even if [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► it doesn't seem Joshua that seems to be [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► the question of this nebula value with [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► with with with this end with the Fowler [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► well these these clearly the nominees [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► the shortlist makers of the nebulas feel [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► that if you're us if you're in the [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► fraternity of being a science fiction [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► writer then and you're right things that [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► are good [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► you're eligible and that's fine I get it [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► it's just if you're looking for for [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► great new science fiction novels to read [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► you got to be careful because some of [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► these are you know maybe it's a good [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► trick like hey read something outside of [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► the genre that's fine but it you know [TS]

00:42:15 ◼   ► that this is a historical fiction novel [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► by somebody who's written science [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► fiction in the past you and probably [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► short works was also one that people say [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► why is the science fiction maybe wasn't [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► the one called springs one [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► yeah they add that that was even run on [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► tor.com but its larger and larger right [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► yeah the ending of that particular [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► novella is is I think close enough to [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► being weird and set that [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► yeah it you get to the end you go [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► there's like a weird moment where things [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► sort of become like a not quite real and [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► that's enough but it's very very low key [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► I mean I've got bad halfway through and [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► I'm like I really like this but where's [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► the syfy so because it seems like a [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► nostalgia peace until you get to the end [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► and then it's so nostalgic piece but [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► there's also this sort of weirdness [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► which I'm not gonna ruin because it's [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► actually a great novella [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► no right ok so that's held Scott gives [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► it a thumbs up for quality and points [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► out that is historical fiction if you'd [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► like to know about the 700 check it and [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► what we've i was looking at just a if i [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► was reading these books on just the [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► craft of writing Hilde should have one [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► not i don't i don't think it based on [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► the fact that this is a science fiction [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► fantasy award it should not be but time [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► to take a break for our sponsor our [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► sponsor this week is really exciting it [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► is a new trade paperback of a comic [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► called umbral is by anthony johnson and [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► Christopher mitten and anthony johnson [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► is an incomparable listener in addition [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► to being a comic book writer and he [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► writes a whole bunch of other stuff does [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► video game world building [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► umbro I i read the issue one when it [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► first came out i just read the trade [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► paperback it's the first thing these two [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► guys have created together since they [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► created the epic wasteland comic it is a [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► high-concept story it is sort of like [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► dark crystal meets saga they didn't [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► really designed it that way but that's [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► sort of how it turned out the art is [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► really unique it looks unlike anything [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► that's out there today really [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► interesting art and the colors are all [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► very cool it's got a really awesome [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► female main character and it's good for [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► I would say new and non comics readers [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► and the comic curious this is a you know [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► it sets you up with this sort of fantasy [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► story that you're expecting and then it [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► goes or at least I was expecting it goes [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► in a different direction and there's [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► some surprises and things that you are [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► yeah if you go in expecting it to be yet [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► another story that you've seen before [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► you will discover very rapidly that that [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► is not what you're going to get lots of [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► amazing world building goes on [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► anyway the trade paperback version [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► collecting the first few issues has just [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► committed 268 pages long so it's a [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► really large chunk of story [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► the same size as saga vol.1 actually and [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► only 999 it even has a map in it so you [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► can you know anybody who's read fantasy [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► stuff you have [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► map see what's happening in this and [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► this mythical land where this main [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► character [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► yeah she discovered some pretty horrific [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► creatures that are doing horrible things [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► and then she has a very interesting [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► adventure it's dark and weird and I [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► liked it and so there is a site that you [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► can go to go to the umbral dot-com th e [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► UMB ral the umbral dot-com and I the [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► digital version of issue one of em bro [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► is free on comixology and on image [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► comics his own site and then there is [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► the trade paperback 999 on sale now just [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► went on sale earlier this week you get [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► the complete vol 168 pages it's called [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► out of the shadows umbral umbr al [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► anthony johnson and comfortable listener [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► do my favorite check it out if you're [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► not sure [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► get the free issue 1 and then if you [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► liked it by the trade paperback so thank [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► you so much to anthony and two umbral [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► for sponsoring this episode of the [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► uncomfortable [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► let's talk about the red colon first [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► light by linda nagata which i believe is [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► essentially a self-published novel the [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► denominator is pretty cool and she's [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► written a number of novels in the past [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► but I think they're all she's republish [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► the mall yourself at this point so this [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► is also a military focused science [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► fiction it's interesting in that it [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► mixes military characters and action [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► with some pretty strong ii and [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► interesting political sentiment in that [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► like the first thing in the first [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► paragraph of the first chapter is about [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► how you know listen the world is run by [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► the arms dealers and you know they're [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► all just making profits for the defense [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► industry and we're just the the soldiers [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► here just gonna get chewed up by this [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► machine is doing this and that's how the [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► that's how that it it starts this is [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► also a book that takes a right-hand turn [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► because they're we we meet a group of [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► soldiers out in Africa American soldiers [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► that are patrolling in Africa [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► and and it's a fascinating little bit [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► but we don't stay with them very long in [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► the end and the book goes in a in a [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► different direction from there and it [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► becomes this interesting combination of [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► military action and this recurring [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► question for uh about if there is an [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► artificial intelligence emerging [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► definitely a science fiction it's a [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► near-future with an artificial [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► intelligence that may or may not be [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► emerging in an interesting way and the [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► main character is a guy who was a given [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► the choice of being in the Army or going [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► to jail because he was at it in a [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► political protest and so he decides to [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► do this and he leaves his girlfriend [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► behind and decides to stay out of jail [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► and become a and become a soldier and [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► ends up in another in another thing that [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► happens here ends up being the recipient [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► of some of the earliest high technology [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► for veterans to sort of like give them [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► Bionic parts and and so that's a thread [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► that runs through this you got the AI [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► stuff you've got the first bionic [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► soldier stuff you've got the questions [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► about how power in this future world is [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► controlled by the arms dealers and and [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► the defense industry versus the [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► government's and it's all just sort of [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► mixed together in an interesting way and [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► at some point minor spoiler at some [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► point a nuclear bomb goes off very close [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► to people and that's also very exciting [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► so what did what did everybody think of [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► that spread why did you give us a give [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► us a start [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► uh I enjoyed a lot of read it in about a [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► day sneaking it here and there she does [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► a good job depicting mean especially [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► that opening sequence excellent job [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► depicting the military know in a very [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► bad situation i really like the mix of [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► politics and the noticed there's no info [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► dumps she drops a little bit of [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► Technology she drops little politics you [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► mix it all together nicely arm some [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► interesting characters the the [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► relationship between the main character [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► his father and his girlfriend very [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► interesting you know it's the father is [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► proud of what he's doing but very upset [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► that he keeps disappearing for come on [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► Selma and [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► you know getting body parts blown off [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► and coming back broken and i think if [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► you like spy novels you like this one [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► you like military is if you like this [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► one if you like burning gay you like [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► this one arm she put together quite a [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► nice entry and they what I so far to [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► book series we'll see how Fargo's sean [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► paul you guys read this one [TS]

00:50:19 ◼   ► yeah well Paul and I actually read it [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► for what it is another person we've [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► interviewed which is kind of fun [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► it's not as fresh in my memory is [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► perhaps and friends are four paws uh I [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► also really like this i think the larger [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► because like Joe Haldeman forever worse [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► one of my favorite books ever and it [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► obviously this book has some does some [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► things take the technology there's are [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► similar and deals with some of the very [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► aggressive political aspects in terms of [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► the sort of military industrial complex [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► stuff and that's that's something that I [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► find really fascinating is it's it's [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► when science fiction's working the best [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► it's not just sticking with the status [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► quo is questioning what whatever the [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► status quo happens to be an issue i [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► think you noted at the very beginning it [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► pretty much like puts this like it just [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► puts out all of its cards and says here [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► you go hit know that you know what we're [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► playing with right now I'm v defense [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► industry you know and contractors have [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► lots of control starts out and you're [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► thinking it's sort of like a rant of a [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► character and then fairly soon after [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► like oh no that's the plot that's the [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► that's the story [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► yeah it it can be a little heavy-handed [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► i think at times but it's also it i [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► think it's doing something that is very [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► current in the same way that Haldeman's [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► book was very current for at least when [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► he was writing it was in this sort of [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► post Vietnam era in this way to dealing [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► with a very different type of of war [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► situation and different kind of [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► industrial military industrial complex [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► and it's obviously taking a very sort of [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► extrapolated view of it and i find it i [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► just find that really fascinating i like [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► when science-fiction military SF in [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► particular is actually trying to deal [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► with real-world issues and a slightly [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► future science fiction setting instead [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► of just sort of taking us five billion [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► years in the future and [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► we're just fighting aliens with no faces [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► and stuff which can be fun but maybe not [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► as relevant to today so I'm that since I [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► really appreciate it [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► what about you Paul yeah I as Sean said [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► we reread this early last year I've been [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► reading into stuff for a long time and [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► she had dropped out of the SF here for a [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► while she did a couple friends see now [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► that I was very glad when she came back [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► like hope she's gonna stop always book I [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► so I delved into it I was kind of [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► predisposed to like it on those bases [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► and so it's ok military SF ok politics [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► and then AI think ok now i start to see [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► where where where the wind and the guy [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► that i read back in the 90 uses was [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► coming into this is because as sorry as [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► like this doesn't feel like it feels [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► like her writing but it isn't it and [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► then when when she went the strings all [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► finally started mixing together ice [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► serve see okay now this feels like a [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► wind and they got a book and I was very [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► very happy to have another Linda got a [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► book that makes any sense because she is [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► an underrated underrated writer and I'm [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► glad to see that she's up i got their [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► publishing and getting new readers she's [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► been nominated for this award before is [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► she not [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► yeah long long time ago yeah now i had [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► read anything by her so I was intrigued [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► Scott what did you think of this one [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► i also have never read anything by heard [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► nor have I ever heard of her [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► so I I that was good i'm glad i read [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► this book because i liked it i have a [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► don't read a lot of military science [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► fiction Clyde you have a soft spot for [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► military science fiction so I thought I [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► enjoyed it i like the twists are like [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► everyone said it's kind of a very it [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► feels very contemporary she's trying to [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► make a point I like novels that have a [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► point of view and this certainly has a [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► very strong point of view and it's not [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► shy about letting you know what that [TS]

00:53:53 ◼   ► point of view is and i thought as i was [TS]

00:53:55 ◼   ► reading it I thought okay well i know [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► what i'm getting this it starts off the [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► first chapter is like pretty [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► straightforward military science fiction [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► was like okay this is cool [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► I know what's happening and then she [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► kind of swerves and the whole AI thing [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► happens and nuclear bombs go haha [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► all kinds of crazy stuff happens but [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► even with all this crazy stuff she has [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► characters that are believable and they [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► have relationships and you know i was [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► giving fire with fire a hard time for [TS]

00:54:23 ◼   ► the female character I feel like this [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► book has a lot of strong female [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► characters in it which i think is great [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► but it's not it doesn't make it it's not [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► like trumpeting the fact that hey look [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► there are strong feeling characters [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► they're just characters in the book they [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► have things to do and that's great i [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► like the talk about the emergent AI [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► think I really I i like the fact that so [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► many depictions of AI in science fiction [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► are and you know and then it became [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► alive and began to talk to us and all [TS]

00:54:56 ◼   ► that and this this seems a you know I [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► don't know [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► more likely a scenario to me which is [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► that there is something that is emergent [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► that has behavior that you know it's [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► coming from somewhere and it's not [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► natural but it's actually unclear how [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► intelligence it even is if it thinks or [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► if it's just pushing reality and and I [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► in ways that its programming is pushing [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► it to you know you can't get you can see [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► the shape of it it's just beneath the [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► surface and you don't know whether it's [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► really thinking or not and at first [TS]

00:55:30 ◼   ► people don't even understand that it's [TS]

00:55:32 ◼   ► there and it takes a long time [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► the main character that you know it's [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► easier for people to think that he's got [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► vision from God then it is that he's [TS]

00:55:41 ◼   ► been you know given information or B is [TS]

00:55:44 ◼   ► being manipulated by an artificial [TS]

00:55:46 ◼   ► intelligence and so that's a really [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► interesting twist I loved the the [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► beginning in in Africa I thought that [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► was a really evocative segment and I was [TS]

00:55:56 ◼   ► sort of sad when it ended but I I see [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► why you know how was the story she [TS]

00:56:00 ◼   ► wanted to tell she took told that is [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► almost like a little short story and [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► then kicked us into the rest of the [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► story which was which was really nice if [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► I have a complaint about this it's [TS]

00:56:09 ◼   ► probably that I felt like it went a [TS]

00:56:11 ◼   ► little too long and after after you blow [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► up a nuclear bomb high above not that [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► high above many of your characters I [TS]

00:56:24 ◼   ► feel like that [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► that's probably as good as it's gonna [TS]

00:56:27 ◼   ► get and I felt that kind of went on a [TS]

00:56:29 ◼   ► little bit long after that there was a [TS]

00:56:31 ◼   ► lot of of their there was some more [TS]

00:56:34 ◼   ► action and and there's an airplane chase [TS]

00:56:37 ◼   ► at one point and I felt like the most [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► climactic things have already happened [TS]

00:56:42 ◼   ► and that I was kind of ready for it to [TS]

00:56:45 ◼   ► be over so i guess that would be my one [TS]

00:56:47 ◼   ► complaint about it is there's a whole [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► thing where there's somebody taken [TS]

00:56:50 ◼   ► hostage and there's people on one [TS]

00:56:52 ◼   ► airplane and people in different [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► airplane and yeah you know at that point [TS]

00:56:55 ◼   ► I i felt like i had my foot fill in that [TS]

00:56:59 ◼   ► it didn't need to keep going on but but [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► no it was a lot of fun that was not what [TS]

00:57:04 ◼   ► I expected from reading the community [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► from the cover and from assuming that it [TS]

00:57:08 ◼   ► was a military and no point did any of [TS]

00:57:11 ◼   ► the characters devolved into what they [TS]

00:57:12 ◼   ► could I mean that you know I went to buy [TS]

00:57:14 ◼   ► became a soldier instead of going to [TS]

00:57:16 ◼   ► prison or the father whose protesting [TS]

00:57:18 ◼   ► about his son's life choices or the [TS]

00:57:19 ◼   ► girlfriend who breaks up with him [TS]

00:57:20 ◼   ► because he's going in the military [TS]

00:57:22 ◼   ► all of those seem like they could be [TS]

00:57:24 ◼   ► stock characters and none of them are [TS]

00:57:27 ◼   ► behaving in totally you know predictable [TS]

00:57:30 ◼   ► stock ways which is nice [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► it's also the first time i [TS]

00:57:34 ◼   ► self-published novel has appeared on [TS]

00:57:35 ◼   ► this I think yeah I think so yeah which [TS]

00:57:38 ◼   ► is really interesting when you think [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► about it because that's like we had a [TS]

00:57:42 ◼   ► big conversation I think last year about [TS]

00:57:45 ◼   ► I think they like you how he or somebody [TS]

00:57:47 ◼   ► have a fit because they can get [TS]

00:57:48 ◼   ► nominated for like the the proper awards [TS]

00:57:52 ◼   ► because they're self-publisher some [TS]

00:57:54 ◼   ► remember who was it probably wasn't you [TS]

00:57:55 ◼   ► Howie but then of course now where we [TS]

00:57:58 ◼   ► are 2014 is like well as a punishment [TS]

00:58:00 ◼   ► got nominated so what if she may have [TS]

00:58:02 ◼   ► made it easier to nominate she's already [TS]

00:58:06 ◼   ► been known for ya got a number of years [TS]

00:58:08 ◼   ► she seems to be approaching this I mean [TS]

00:58:10 ◼   ► it's not like hi I'm Linda and I have a [TS]

00:58:14 ◼   ► book she's got as the way she seems to [TS]

00:58:16 ◼   ► be approaching it as i am my own [TS]

00:58:17 ◼   ► publisher and I am publishing these [TS]

00:58:19 ◼   ► novels and I you know I've got a [TS]

00:58:21 ◼   ► publishing company with a name and and [TS]

00:58:23 ◼   ► is trying to sort of self-published with [TS]

00:58:26 ◼   ► the trappings of being in a you know in [TS]

00:58:28 ◼   ► a publishing house even though she's not [TS]

00:58:30 ◼   ► which has got an interesting approach [TS]

00:58:33 ◼   ► I think number alright um let's then [TS]

00:58:37 ◼   ► then unless there's anything else [TS]

00:58:39 ◼   ► about that move on to a stranger in a [TS]

00:58:42 ◼   ► laundry abay Sophia samatar this is [TS]

00:58:45 ◼   ► gonna be interesting haha why don't I [TS]

00:58:47 ◼   ► idea [TS]

00:58:49 ◼   ► somebody else might want to Scott can [TS]

00:58:51 ◼   ► you help me out here can you explain [TS]

00:58:53 ◼   ► what this book is about uh well do you [TS]

00:58:56 ◼   ► remember it i do remember it i remember [TS]

00:58:59 ◼   ► parts of it it's the story of a young [TS]

00:59:02 ◼   ► man whose father grows peppers directly [TS]

00:59:08 ◼   ► yes he did he takes a trip he meet some [TS]

00:59:11 ◼   ► interesting people he learns how to [TS]

00:59:14 ◼   ► write and read [TS]

00:59:16 ◼   ► yes he's he's instructed by a traveler [TS]

00:59:20 ◼   ► from the far-off big-city the trend [TS]

00:59:23 ◼   ► learns how to read and write and speak [TS]

00:59:24 ◼   ► the language of the far-off city right [TS]

00:59:26 ◼   ► traveled to that City he's he's haunted [TS]

00:59:29 ◼   ► by a ghost see and then yes [TS]

00:59:33 ◼   ► yeah apparently he is kidnapped by some [TS]

00:59:38 ◼   ► religious people put into an asylum of [TS]

00:59:41 ◼   ► some sort [TS]

00:59:42 ◼   ► he is a then kind of kidnapped by [TS]

00:59:45 ◼   ► another group of people who escaped help [TS]

00:59:47 ◼   ► him escape from the asylum [TS]

00:59:49 ◼   ► there's a scene where religious group [TS]

00:59:52 ◼   ► holds a fair and everybody gets beat up [TS]

00:59:54 ◼   ► and then he hides out all trying to come [TS]

00:59:54 ◼   ► and then he hides out all trying to come [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► here himself from was honoring yes at [TS]

01:00:02 ◼   ► the end of he goes to the end of the [TS]

01:00:03 ◼   ► world and hides out it [TS]

01:00:05 ◼   ► yes and writes a book in the margins of [TS]

01:00:07 ◼   ► another book while someone else is dying [TS]

01:00:09 ◼   ► but they're not dying because the ghost [TS]

01:00:11 ◼   ► helps him keep them alive and then when [TS]

01:00:14 ◼   ► he finishes writing the book the ghost [TS]

01:00:16 ◼   ► goes away everybody's happy and he goes [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► home [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► sort of yeah kind of is that there's [TS]

01:00:24 ◼   ► that shirt yeah i really did remember [TS]

01:00:26 ◼   ► this will pick and I thought it went on [TS]

01:00:29 ◼   ► so long for such a short book it was a [TS]

01:00:34 ◼   ► short i read it on the kindle it didn't [TS]

01:00:36 ◼   ► seem sure to me at all [TS]

01:00:37 ◼   ► it seemed very very very very long i was [TS]

01:00:40 ◼   ► reading it and I could think this this [TS]

01:00:43 ◼   ► is good but perplexing i don't know why [TS]

01:00:49 ◼   ► i'm reading this I don't really care [TS]

01:00:52 ◼   ► about anything that's happening and I [TS]

01:00:55 ◼   ► hope it will stop it you know it it it's [TS]

01:00:59 ◼   ► kind of shaggy dog story right there's [TS]

01:01:03 ◼   ► lots of stories right i mean that was [TS]

01:01:05 ◼   ► the thing that stopped be actually [TS]

01:01:06 ◼   ► because I enjoyed a lot of it but but [TS]

01:01:08 ◼   ► you know you get to a point where like [TS]

01:01:10 ◼   ► okay now i'm going to tell you and [TS]

01:01:12 ◼   ► literally the whole that we're going to [TS]

01:01:13 ◼   ► stop the entire book now and tell like a [TS]

01:01:15 ◼   ► whole other books worth of a story to [TS]

01:01:18 ◼   ► get around like that let's back up until [TS]

01:01:20 ◼   ► the ghost story or four excerpts from [TS]

01:01:22 ◼   ► books or excerpts from problems yeah and [TS]

01:01:25 ◼   ► that was that was what it beat me down [TS]

01:01:27 ◼   ► after a while that as much as I [TS]

01:01:29 ◼   ► appreciate the quality of the writing [TS]

01:01:30 ◼   ► and I was sort of interested in what was [TS]

01:01:31 ◼   ► happening there are so many excerpts [TS]

01:01:34 ◼   ► from books and there's so many other [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► people's stories there's so many legends [TS]

01:01:37 ◼   ► do you know the legend of this [TS]

01:01:38 ◼   ► well let me tell you the entire legend [TS]

01:01:40 ◼   ► of that and that that was what stretched [TS]

01:01:42 ◼   ► it out for me [TS]

01:01:43 ◼   ► I you know I I yeah yeah what was I well [TS]