The Incomparable

00:00:00 ◼   ► the incomparable number 197 jun 2014 [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► welcome back to the incomparable podcast [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► on your host Jason Snelling we're here [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► to talk about a book but this is a [TS]

00:00:21 ◼   ► little bit different from our normal [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► book club this is a work of nonfiction [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► but it's by somebody who is a major [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► player in a major creative endeavor and [TS]

00:00:29 ◼   ► one that we podcast about before then we [TS]

00:00:31 ◼   ► love a lot which is pixar we're going to [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► talk about creativity pink book by EDD [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► cat mall with Amy Wallace at catalent [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► the president of pixar for many years [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► and now runs the pics both pixar and [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► disney animation with john lasseter and [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► he wrote this book that is partially a [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► memoir of his time at Pixar and [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► partially a management book about how he [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► has managed the creative culture at [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► Pixar which i think is an interesting [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► conversation to have to and lots of [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► things to talk about i have a panel full [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► of people who are raring to go to talk [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► about this subject I field i love it as [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► a host when that happens because i feel [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► like i can just sort of lean back and [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► I'll go get a glass of water at one [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► point you won't even know I'm gone [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► because anyway my panel is our plan [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► fleischmann welcome back plan [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► nice to see you finally it's it's such a [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► pleasure to have broken the surface of [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► the water tension and come through like [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► Nemo I i found myself [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► ok that's a reference Lisa Schmeisser [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► also here hello [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► thank you it's nice to be here John [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► siracusa is here so excited to be on a [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► book club episode even if it is [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► nonfiction and even if it's not 800-page [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► book about wizards by my by my reckoning [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► it has been approximately 16 months [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► since you were on a book club episode so [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► welcome and David lower who is on every [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► episode that Dan Morgan isn't on and [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► maybe that he is also here [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► hello I all I will say is I'm glad this [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► isn't about the hugo nominees [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► yeah we noticed that was not going to [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► happen [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► well now David this record continuously [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► 24 hours a day I believe radio Radio [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► Free David it's where you know and [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► there's so many different facets of this [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► i'm not sure where you want to get [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► started i really enjoyed it on one level [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► I have to say just as being story of [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► pixar and this interesting story of bed [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► cat mall who started out in computer [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► science and but always had creative [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► yearnings as well and ended up sort of [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► by mistake or just through happenstance [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► at a at Lucasfilm when they were [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► starting their computer graphics [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► division and then the story of them [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► being bought by steve jobs and the [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► desire to make a make a motion picture [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► in computer animation and then the [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► trucks or tribulations of the problems [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► they had with various various films the [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► disney buyout and the death of Steve [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► Jobs are all covered in here so he's got [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► that aspect of the story as well as the [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► the sort of management learnings over [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► the course of all this time and you know [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► which I found very interesting but I was [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► fascinated by the story of pixar III the [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► thing that really hit me was that at a [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► time when they could have very easily [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► have just said we're going to make [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► hardware or we're going to make software [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► or you know we're going to do computer [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► graphics for other people's movies they [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► had this one idea which i think came [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► from john lasseter but at cad model was [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► right there with him which is we're [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► going to make a motion picture and and [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► that the world would be very different [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► if they hadn't had that because you get [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► the sense from the book that would have [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► been very easy it was not a fait [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► accompli that they were going to be a [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► movie studio that they became a movie [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► studio not accidentally but it was not [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► looking at pics are in the in the [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► eighties and early nineties you wouldn't [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► have made that guess I think i would say [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► they had needed somebody who is going to [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► pour hundreds of millions of dollars [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► down a whole hoping eventually that was [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► going to become a foundation that's what [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► Steve Jobs did I mean after you know [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► Lucas's years with it and they thought [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► they were a hardware business that was [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► going to maybe do something on the side [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► if they hadn't poured hundreds of [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► millions of dollars in research for [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► you know this really not exactly but [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► nine but certainly supportive ongoing [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► you know leader with big pockets [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► it wouldn't have happened and you know [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► i'll try this isn't letting but I'm i [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► knew a bunch of computer graphics people [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► in the in the eighties and nineties [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► people were involved in siggraph and one [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► was the chair a six and you know I old [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► housemate was a was a computer graphics [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► guy so I met a lot of these kind of [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► people like Ed and it is there's a [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► personality types of readiness and I'm [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► like oh I i remember the kind of person [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► that gets into this field the patients [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► you need because you leave you go insane [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► and you leave the glaring part is we had [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► when i worked at the kodak center for [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► creative imaging we had a pixar box they [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► bought one the cube and it SAT there and [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► none of us knew how to do anything with [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► it and occasionally I would try to plug [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► in component video monitors to and get [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► to do anything at all we had no idea [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► what to do with it [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► I had type of street and i still i think [TS]

00:05:14 ◼   ► i may even have the disks somewhere type [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► of street for the mac which was 3d [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► rendered type app for the mac from like [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► 1993 or something like that when they [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► were a software company which based on [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► the book they realized that they were [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► gonna really be a hardware company said [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► they had try something else [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► the things that this company did when [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► it's time in the wilderness in [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► retrospect it's it's kind of obvious [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► what the problem was because like in the [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► beginning they were Lucas thing and [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► Lucas had something that he wanted them [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► to do just revolutionized you know film [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► editing and filmmaking which they did to [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► the best of their ability and it turns [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► out that they were ahead of their time [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► and whatever and Lucas Lucas stitch them [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► and then they went to steve jobs and [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► what Steve Jobs know how to do he knows [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► how to make computers and software in [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► various combinations and they try to do [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► that for a while I don't the only time [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► that they found success is when I said [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► alright what do you guys want to do and [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► it turned out of the people who remained [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► or the people who were there and the [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► people who are important [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► they said actually we you know Kat most [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► wanted to make always wanted to make [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► films right and when you let them do [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► that i mean i'm not it's not saying that [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► was guaranteed success but previously [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► they had all been in the mindset of like [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► underneath some other master do it Lucas [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► once do with Steve Jobs knows how to do [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► and get acquired by like GM nerve [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► someone who makes dishwashers or [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► whatever then it's like what you guys [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► want to do and that's how they started [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► off on their actual Road so in hindsight [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► it's so easy to see all those periods [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► and of course they weren't going to [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► succeed because you know the people the [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► people who were there and the people in [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► charge didn't have the heart of those [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► things what i want what i wonder is if [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► anybody's going to look at this and say [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► wow it took them nearly 20 years to get [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► to the point where they became a movie [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► studio [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► sometimes it's worth throwing money at [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► something because you build a foundation [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► you build a type working team you build [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► a foundation of knowledge you build a [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► management style that works and you've [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► got raw material all you need is is a [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► crystallizing sense of purpose because [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► the question I have is if a company like [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► Pixar could happen today with the sort [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► of insane pressure the overheated [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► pressure that happened that that seems [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► to be a matter of course for teka teka [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► Jason industries where you're supposed [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► to hit the ground running within 18 to [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► 24 months and then and then grow from [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► there and then and quickly pixar [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► happened today [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► well coming out of Lucas like it did it [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► was almost like you're talking about a [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► research division of a company and not a [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► start-up right the this was we collected [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► a bunch of brilliant people who know [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► about computer graphics into George [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► Lucas's credit when Star Wars movies are [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► being made with models he's thinking [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► ahead and saying you know computer [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► graphics is going to be a thing we gotta [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► we gotta get something you know in there [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► and we're gonna try this and steve jobs [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► you know sort of had the same thing [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► which is I think there's something here [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► and these people are really smart but [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► i'm not quite sure what it is yet and it [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► was much more like funding in R&D lab [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► where they're like well we're going to [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► try some hardware we're gonna make some [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► software if you take those products out [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► and say it guys just stop making [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► products just think about stuff but this [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► is the products we sort of part of their [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► exploration and they end up in a place [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► where where something catches but you're [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► right Lisa you know this is not the kind [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► of thing that you just say we're gonna [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► do a start-up and make a thing unless [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► you're unless you're like Elon Musk and [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► you've got a billion dollars kicking [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► around you really you know this is more [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► like rd where you got somebody to fund [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► bankroll something and just say but get [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► some smart people let them kick around [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► for a few years and make a bunch of [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► mistakes and they will eventually get [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► somewhere really interesting because you [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► know without at any point this could [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► all apart and that's where they didn't [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► wake up to that for a while is that they [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► weren't to read when they became a [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► self-standing company they didn't quite [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► realize that they weren't an R&D company [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► for a long time they were sort of trying [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► to figure out where the revenue was I [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► didn't really get it they tried [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► different things they rejected a bunch [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► of stuff but they still sort of acted [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► like they were part of some other firm [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► like we will be well we'll provide the [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► rendering stuff for these other [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► companies even though they weren't [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► really companies who wanted it and what [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► they were creating didn't really work [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► for that purpose what was funny reading [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► the first part of the book for me was [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► the other day I found this out of [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► nowhere a Japanese proverb on the inside [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► of an honest tea bottle cap that said [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► vision without action is a daydream but [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► action without vision is a nightmare and [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► at the end the whole time reading the [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► first part of the book and I'm thinking [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► he's going to say that oh my god that's [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► exactly what he's talking about [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► well there's that one of the book one of [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► the first quotes I pola I i highlighted [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► when I read this [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► we're capitals talking about some of the [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► really bad non advice he received from [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► his friends and contemporary he singles [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► at one focus [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► I'm going to quote here focus focus [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► focus this was a particular favorite [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► piece of not advise when people hear it [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► they not their heads in agreement as it [TS]

00:10:00 ◼   ► a great truth has been presented not [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► realizing that they've been diverted [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► from addressing the far harder problem [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► deciding what it is they should be [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► focusing on there's nothing in this [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► advice that gives you any idea how to [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► figure out where the focus should be or [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► how to apply your energy to it and I [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► thought that was just a really elegant [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► distillation of it was it i thought was [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► a very elegant elegant critique of what [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► then is talking about which is a you [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► know action without purpose or or action [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► without inspiration for or intent behind [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► I'm not damn oh I'm sorry dash I'm so [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► sorry but if I'm so are so dumb what was [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► it was really neat reading about the [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► drawing lessons and how we can't see [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► that we can't draw the chair because we [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► see the chair but we're more accurate [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► when we draw the negative space in and [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► around the chair and and that to me is [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► everything about focus because that that [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► makes you look at the things you don't [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► already know [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► which is much more much more worthwhile [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► when you're trying to be creative and [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► you don't know where an idea is going to [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► come from and I mean that happens to me [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► all the time where I'll start something [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► and throw out the first two or three [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► story ideas because the third one was [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► really really good and I had no idea [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► this character is gonna do that so sorry [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► I mean maybe the whole book just well [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► well that seems to be the one he talks [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► about the mental models and the [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► metaphors that people use yeah katal had [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► the real issue of people referring [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► excavation archaeology because he said [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► look it's not like the movie was there [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► and we grew up toward it [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► you know that I don't think he's a guy [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► who's really into the allegory of the [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► cave like he doesn't strike me as the [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► Platonic I felt bake cause he's like [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► it's not like this ideal movies out [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► there and we grew up toward it's an [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► iterative process we're not uncover [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► anything we're not really archaeologists [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► of of ideas and that's something he [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► returns to over and over again as is you [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► really have no idea what's the problem [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► that you're facing are you have no idea [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► what you don't know you have to train [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► yourself to look at every situation [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► without bringing context to you have to [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► you have to find new ways to approach it [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► and I thought that was just a really [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► really smart insight to keep hammering [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► on over and over again was the idea that [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► if you want to be creative start by [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► stripping away the context in and just [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► and just try to see what you're not [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► trying to try to see things from a [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► different perspective as a collection of [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► shapes around this shoot that's upside [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► down [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► I thought underlying a lot of this book [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► to is something that's understated and [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► now i have to admit I've never read [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► Clayton Christensen's book innovators [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► dilemma i feel like i have because i've [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► read so many articles and excerpts that [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► involve it but but you know the so it's [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► ridiculous you actually need to sit down [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► and read the thing but i have read [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► interviews with them and lengthy things [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► and watched and talk about it and [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► whatever so I feel like I'm converse in [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► the theory of and the innovators dilemma [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► is the idea [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► yeah one part of it is that these [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► entrenched industries like Disney in [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► this case this day what it became a [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► figure out one thing that works they own [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► a whole space and you know gets applied [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► to mean [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► in the computers and steel manufacturer [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► whatever they plucky upstart scum who do [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► what seems to be cruelly crappy work [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► originally but what they're so cheap and [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► they're so good at the worst thing for [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► the lowest profit Louis margin thing [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► that an industry or company does that [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► they eat that part up and they're like [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► oh they can have that terrible part we [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► don't like that anyway don't make much [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► money off it but they grow from that [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► base and they absorb and take over the [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► whole industry or or displays the [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► company and I feel like you know the [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► pixar story actually has a lot of that [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► in it not just from what pixar did to [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► animation which is exactly that is they [TS]

00:13:37 ◼   ► started doing something that everyone [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► thought was laughable and then became [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► dominant because they develop the [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► technology to make it work but the other [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► part is that he constantly re-evaluates [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► a whether or not what they're doing [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► makes any sense so we he tries to fight [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► complacency because he worries [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► they're going to be that company at the [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► top that doesn't realize they're about [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► to be eaten from them from all their [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► competition from the bottom be destroyed [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► and coming back and forth going over [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► that again and again and again seems to [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► be one of the lessons of the book you [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► mentioned a little bit this dichotomy [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► almost between the technical and the [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► creative and that was something that [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► struck me about it is you've got this [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► incredibly talented group of computer [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► scientists here and yet I kind of feel [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► like the thing that they were most [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► innovative about was this having a [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► structure that gets good storytelling [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► not at the storytelling innovation of [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► having their brain trust and and being [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► really functional when end and [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► disciplined when it came to building [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► stories and going through scenes was the [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► is the thing that makes pixar the the [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► the studio that creates these amazing [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► stories that are classics not the [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► technology mean they couldn't have been [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► the first computer animated film without [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► the technology that they had this [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► amazing technology but if that story [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► hadn't been good and if the success of [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► stories hadn't been good [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► it would have been all for nothing and [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► and so that's a fascinating mixture that [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► this isn't just a story about them [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► building amazing technology and [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► believing in their technology it's also [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► a story about you know they're these [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► very technical people [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► finding creative people who are good [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► matches and putting them together and [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► having this process for storytelling [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► that was just as functional as the [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► obviously amazing technology that they [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► had I thought it was really fascinating [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► how up evolved over the course of the [TS]

00:15:31 ◼   ► movie where if you read about all the [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► different plots they had going at one [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► point and you know basically the only [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► thing that stayed the whole time was [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► Carl but I even forget that i'm sorry [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► it's it's it's there is a lot of the [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► book are absorbed and took notes on this [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► is not one of them but I on finding you [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► went through several iterations to where [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► the original was supposed to be parallel [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► story of nemo and his tank and his dad [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► in the wild and they figured out the [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► story structure was confusing scrapped [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► it and started over [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► um they talk about toy story 2 how they [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► had 2 and i thought was really helpful [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► for him to hammer over and over again [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► that look we were not afraid to make [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► mistakes it's an iterative process no [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► one is ever punished for failing it's [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► better to fail and learn from it and to [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► assess it and do something well then to [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► be afraid to try anything and then turn [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► to mediocrity especially cuz he [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► contrasts the the disney process at the [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► end and after disney bought Pixar and he [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► he got broken hinge on last year got [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► brought into to run the disney animation [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► studio and they were working on the [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► movie about the dog and it wasn't [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► working and people were afraid to speak [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► up and say anything because if you if [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► you had done that your corporate culture [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► it was sticking your neck out and it was [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► taking it was considered taking a risk [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► and it was better just to put your head [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► down keep working and Abby risk-averse [TS]

00:16:50 ◼   ► things like now you've really gotta [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► embrace risk and you gotta embrace [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► failure because if if you don't if you [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► don't try things you're never going to [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► learn from them and find the best way to [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► do anything and we do live in a pretty [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► risk-averse called I don't know about [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► you guys I've worked in some fairly [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► risk-averse places and it's it's always [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► interesting it's always interesting to [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► me to read and hear examples that that [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► can that prove exactly the opposite i [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► loved Andrew Stanton's understands line [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► which is fail fast you should fail and [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► just go and just go for it and do it and [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► find quickly whether you're going to [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► fail and I don't you know don't [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► soft-pedal it fail and fail fast [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► it took a while to get to that though [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► that's where the themes of the book is [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► they think they're like well we should [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► give a lot of time for this we did this [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► for this movie that worked out well and [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► then he says the thing I mean he's so [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► ridiculously honest in this without [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► being shaming nobody has shamed in this [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► book I mean he doesn't he's like we had [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► a fire that director we had to replace [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► that director and so-and-so and [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► so-and-so came on we had a well-known [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► regarded children's book author come in [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► and we couldn't work with that means [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► that over and over the people where [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► there's a problem he does not point the [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► finger and say we had selling something [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► like literally the name of that person [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► but the fact that he's so blunt about [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► that like every time I keep back up [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► being surprised because he doesn't even [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► fall into place and see in the book in [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► that he just seems to call it's like we [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► thought we had this figured out we [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► figured we run in these like that I [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► asked and like oh my god we need to have [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► an entire likely in the book spoilers [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► they do that whole company notes day [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► where they essentially i mean they spend [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► weeks preparing for it [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► they shot the company down for a day [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► which I'm sure cost millions of dollars [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► in terms of you know the projects they [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► have going and but they were formed the [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► company they took something that was [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► working and said it's not working well [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► enough and I'm sure this will come out [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► for many of our conversations here but i [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► thought like Ed Catmull is he's like [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► that seems to be and if this portrayal [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► of himself in the book is anything he's [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► like the most conscientious but relax [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► guy he's the guy you go to when you are [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► totally freaking out and he doesn't just [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► excuse it he makes he figures that I was [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► like a guru practically doesn't pay [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► himself that way and a perfect foil to [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► this eve Steve Jobs hot mentality the [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► colon code called add Catmull is cold [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► but emotional and sensitive Steve Jobs [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► was high and they seem like such a [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► perfect complement but also a camel does [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► exactly what jobs does what we can read [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► jobs doesn't he's just telling us here [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► were so much about what steve jobs that [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► we had to infer read you know leaks and [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► things like that capitalist says hey we [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► did this crazy thing because we need to [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► reinvent everything we're doing suddenly [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► yeah and I don't you gotta throw John [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► Lasseter in there too who's a you know [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► the other piece of this the this this [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► this creative force and it's a [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► fascinating matchup jobs and cattle and [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► Lassiter and you know you've got a [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► you've got to think that a lot of a [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► success Pixar has had is being fortune [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► enough to have those people in in [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► positions of authority in that company [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► is as leaders well forget his capital [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► seem to isolate John Lasseter doesn't [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► seem to come up in the end not power [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► struggles when stuff really is being [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► pulled apart like taffy cattle talks [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► about his conversation directly with [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► jobs so lastly I think brought such I [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► mean the creative stuff like it's odd [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► that capital talk so much about [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► fostering the creative process without [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► being someone who himself is you know [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► artists Albany is at a level but not in [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► this way [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► time for a brief break for one of our [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► sponsors it's lynda.com and this is [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► going to be a sponsor read with a [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► special appearance by John siracusa in [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► it in an anecdote so stay tuned for that [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► lynda.com is a place to help you learn [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► and keep up-to-date with software pickup [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► brand new skills explore new hobbies [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► with easy-to-follow video tutorials that [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► is the killer feature at Leonard [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► lynda.com you are learning about lots of [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► tech topics from the beginner level to [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► the super advanced level but you're [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► doing it with professionally produced [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► high quality video tutorials from the [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► experts using the latest online tools [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► learning skills to increase your [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► productivity editing your own video [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► footage building websites programming [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► all of these things are available in the [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► huge more than 2,400 courses available [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► at lynda.com lynda.com works directly [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► with software companies to provide [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► timely training on the latest versions [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► of their products often the day that [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► those versions come out so you get a new [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► version of your favorite professional [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► app and you're wondering how do i take [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► advantage of the new features guess what [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► lynda.com probably has training for that [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► app on the day that you get the software [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► and like I said you can be a beginner or [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► a super advanced user there are courses [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► for all of the different experience [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► levels and there's one low monthly price [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► twenty-five dollars a month gives you [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► unlimited access you can watch as many [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► videos in the library as you want as [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► many times as you want there's no nickel [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► and diming there's one subscription [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► price twenty-five dollars a month and [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► you get everything and when I say [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► everything I mean everything microsoft [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► office adobe creative cloud Final Cut [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► Pro Logic Pro and more mac windows ipad [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► for business google docs and [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► google sheets keynote six there are so [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► many and here's my John syracuse the [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► story the incomparable dot-com is a [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► website that i built the front end of [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► myself and I'm not much of a web [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► designer and I certainly haven't [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► designed a lot of websites since the [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► 20th century probably and I was talking [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► to John syracuse this weekend and he [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► said it shows it's like well it's true [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► it does and he's not one to mince words [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► but however I will say this i was proud [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► of myself i made it responsive it [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► actually does some things differently if [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► you're an iPad or an iPhone or if you [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► have a small browser windows my first [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► time ever doing that and it turns out [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► lynda.com has responsive design courses [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► so you can learn from the experts about [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► how to do something like make your [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► website responsive to smaller devices [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► and behave differently on mobile than it [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► does on the desktop and that's what I [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► did so that was pretty cool and John [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► siracusa being what professional was not [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► impressed but like I said every skill [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► level including mine can be serviced at [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► lynda.com so improve your skills learn [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► new software keep up with new technology [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► all the courses are incredibly [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► high-quality this is not somebody in [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► their basement on youtube making a [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► hostage video [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► these are super high quality in a [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► professional studio with experts [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► explaining things in bite-sized pieces [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► the navigation is really easy [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► it's really amazing you should see it [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► for yourself and I've got good news [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► there we have a sweet deal for you [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► lynda.com is going to provide you with a [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► special offer to access the whole [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► library free all of it not just the [TS]

00:23:33 ◼   ► intros not just some of the courses all [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► the courses free for seven days [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► here's what you need to do visit [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► linda.com ly ND a.com slash incomparable [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► to start your seven day free trial [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► that's ly ND a.com slash incomparable [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► and thank you so much to the good people [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► at lynda.com for teaching me some things [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► about responsive design despite John [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► Syracuse and not being impressed and for [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► supporting me uncomfortable going back [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► to story the thing that struck me this [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► this is the one actual quote that i [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► highlighted wanted to mention [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► even before jobs comes into the picture [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► when they're doing their very first [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► short thing just to try it out and show [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► their new techniques and they didn't get [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► it done in time for the the premier any [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► and he says we could complete a rough [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► version of it in time but portions will [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► be unfinished as his wireframe images [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► mock-ups made from polygons of the [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► finished characters instead of fully [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► colored images the night of our premier [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► we watched mortified as these segments [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► appeared on the screen but something [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► surprising happened despite our worries [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► the majority of the people said they [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► hadn't even noticed that the movie had [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► switched from full color to black and [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► white wire frames they were so caught up [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► in the emotion of the story that they [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► hadn't noticed its flaws and here's the [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► money quote this is my first encounter [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► with the phenomenon i would notice again [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► and again throughout my career for all [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► the care you put into artistry visual [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► polish frequently doesn't matter if [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► you're getting the story right and i run [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► across that in theatres all the time to [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► some of the most beautiful acting some [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► of the most beautiful writing I've ever [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► seen has been on a stage with the table [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► and two chairs and two actors speaking [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► words that no projections no fancy set [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► design the lighting tricks you know and [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► yet you go you know I go to theater all [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► the time and see the gorgeous gorgeous [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► set designs and lighting and projections [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► smallest all in the service of a story [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► that really needs work and you know and [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► and i just love that and I i want to [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► take this book and shove it in the hands [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► of every person working in a theater [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► company building in this country because [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► they could use it seriously troubles a [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► lot of them will say oh this doesn't [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► apply to meet we're not doing it with [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► you're not technology whether it's the [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► pureblood they be like no no you gotta [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► drop that you go kart and read this and [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► accepted i'm so glad you mentioned ego [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► because that's one thing that comes [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► through in this book I made a note about [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► the the lack of eagle one of the things [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► I've noticed about really intelligent [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► people that I've run across again and [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► again is they have an all-day they have [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► a wonderful lack of ego they're really [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► open to new ideas regardless of the [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► source they don't find a lot of [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► hierarchy to it and and to them it's [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► more important that ideas that ideas are [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► tried tested deploy effectively [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► make the world a better and more [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► interesting place and this this [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► capitalism at say it says it explicitly [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► but this ethos permeates the whole book [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► i think this idea that pixar you can [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► take profit you should take you should [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► take enormous pride and craftsmanship [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► and your work but ultimately one of the [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► reasons it succeeds is because they [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► don't as a culture they don't indulge [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► Divas they don't indulge a cult of [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► personality they don't indulge ego at [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► all and you have to learn to be the kind [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► of smart where you don't have a lot of [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► ego bound up with being the smartest [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► person in the room you have to be the [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► kind of smart where you keep your eyes [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► open and your receptive to new ideas and [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► you are always always always open to the [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► possibility that you can learn something [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► from anyone in any way and they talk [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► about this with everybody has you know [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► pictures problems everyone's problems [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► you don't have to wait for permission to [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► grant responsibility [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► you don't have to wait for permission to [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► speak hierarchy doesn't matter [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► ATP emphasizes will you show the company [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► has hierarchy in some fashion but they [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► they want good ideas and good solutions [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► to come from everywhere and in order to [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► empower people that way you you kind of [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► have to aggressively de-emphasize ego as [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► a function of intellect a lot of people [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► don't respond to criticism well they and [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► they take it as a personal affront and [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► and creating a culture where everybody [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► is on the same team and they're just [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► trying to make the thing better and that [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► the idea the idea that you have is a [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► starting point and if it if there's a [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► better idea that comes out of it then [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► you didn't lose because your idea wasn't [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► good enough you're just part of this [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► process and that is you know I took a [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► Creative Writing course in college and [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► you know I we all have to critique other [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► people's work that was the assignment [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► that's how you got graded and it's you [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► know you try to be gentle [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► you know but some people you are [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► destroying this thing that they they [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► think it's a personal insult and and I [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► was amazed by the fact that it picks are [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► they really got to the point where [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► everybody felt like they could say [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► something everybody can make you know [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► make these comments about what they want [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► and what what the what the story should [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► be and you know andrew stanton could [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► have had the idea that was sitting there [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► that got torn apart and his response [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► would be you know great i'm glad week it [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► got something [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► around a bit and then that's good enough [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► in the after we're talking about Steve [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► Jobs they talk about one of steve's [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► greatest strength was pitching pitching [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► ideas where and he says explicitly [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► pitching isn't as a way of testing [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► material taking this measure and [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► strengthening it by observing how place [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► an audience but if the idea doesn't fly [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► good people who go to pitching are [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► extremely adept dropping it moving on [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► and it's a rare skill and it also steve [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► jobs ego doesn't attach the suggestions [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► he makes even as he throws his full [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► weight of belief beyond them he was just [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► there's a certain lack of ego and in [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► making in making suggestions and in [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► being open to criticism and an iterative [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► processes there so i have an insight [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► from my one of my few forays into [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► corporate culture is I mean I work the [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► amazon.com in the early days and and [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► jeff bezos is a complete genius he's [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► also a great manager he had but without [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► going to detail it was interesting to [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► read this and have watched how Amazon [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► grew and it's missteps and the kind of [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► culture it appears to have created both [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► from external reports of people I work [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► there at different times including [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► recently and the reason you can have [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► open criticism a place like Pixar is [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► because you're not going to be fired and [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► we talked about the little earlier like [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► people worried about job you know the [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► the disney culture people worry about [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► saying the wrong thing and whatever in [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► when i was an Amazon one of the reasons [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► i left after six months as I was put in [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► charge a few months into a huge project [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► I did my part right i could not get any [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► of the company had a hundred people when [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► i joined and about 400 when I left and I [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► could not get any of the already siloed [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► closed-off other divisions do what I was [TS]

00:30:11 ◼   ► being directed to do by the CEO of the [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► company they would not do it and I [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► realized because i couldn't succeed in [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► that environment there is no future for [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► me there and that was one of the things [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► that contribute to me leaving I wasn't [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► exactly forced out but there was no more [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► roll and I feel like the environment [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► pixar if this is any accurate [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► description which it seems to be based [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► again on like external signs you know [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► that the film's they released the kind [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► of stories they tell and then the people [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► come out of it they they you're not [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► fired for being part of helping make [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► things better when you say things are [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► wrong or when you try to break down like [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► there's a number of discussions about [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► the production side the creative side or [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► or on this person you know they sent [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► somebody often three days they figure [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► out how to do this thing that should [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► have taken you know six months they're [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► able to rework that thing at disney the [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► the model for one of the characters in a [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► walk-on 1402 it's it's you were not pet [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► he apparently figured a way to not make [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► people worry they would lose their job [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► it was more sensible for you to speak up [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► then to remain quiet was a safer thing [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► to speak up and that is in this [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► extremely crazy thing I wanted to talk [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► about there's a line in this book that [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► up that I what was one of my highlights [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► on the candle which was about leaders of [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► companies focus so focused on the [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► competition they were never they never [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► developed in deep introspection about [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► other destructive forces that work in [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► this introspection i think is another [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► big part of the pixar story that there [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► that there always concerned about you [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► know what's going on that the problems [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► they can't see the mistakes that are [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► happening that that success [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► there's a line John Madden the former [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► football coach and sports announcer like [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► to say that winning is a great deodorant [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► and you know as long as you're winning [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► the problems that you've got in your [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► locker room or wherever don't matter [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► because you're winning but as soon as [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► you stop winning then you realize [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► everything stinks and this is this is [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► really what had cattle is getting out [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► here is we can't wait for us to have a [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► failure to discover that we have lots of [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► major problems with what we're doing we [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► need to we need to be rooting that stuff [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► out now and that reminded me of was it [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► was it a episode or two of hypercritical [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► John where you talked about a lot of the [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► same points this uh you know had Pixar's [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► take on you know you you've got to be [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► constantly rooting out these these [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► things and and that you can't wait for [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► failure to do it well the episode first [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► motion picture i think was about i [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► forget what you were going through a [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► bunch of big companies and saying what [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► we thought was wrong with them and pixar [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► was the 1i think I saved to the end [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► because it's like who's going to say [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► something bad about pixar this is maybe [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► 2011 or something [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► what could possibly be wrong with Pixar [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► everyone loves pixar to make great [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► movies you know obviously this is before [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► this book [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► and before I knew pretty much anything [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► about the inner workings and the one [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► thing I decided that seemed like it was [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► wrong with Pixar is this string of [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► successes without any failures up to [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► that point pointed to a situation where [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► they weren't taking enough risks right [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► and so it's like all right what it you [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► know if every single movie is success [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► are any of these movies as biggest [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► success they could be if you're willing [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► to take more risks and the tweet reply I [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► got from michael johnson who is [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► mentioned in this book and works at [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► Pixar cleaning [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► yeah good friend of the show Michael [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► Johnson who is mentioned in the book in [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► response to to that episode of [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► hypocritical was a tweet that I should [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► look it up but i believe the entire [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► content of the tweet is we don't release [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► our failures which was a reasonable [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► answer and if you look in the book you [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► can see that right now they talk about [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► entire movies that they spent millions [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► of dollars on that said you know what [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► the blue yeah yeah yeah that movie is [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► not coming out or all the movies with a [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► change Directors and and stuff like that [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► with it yet where the movie is [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► essentially not the same movie they were [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► working on because they change directors [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► they barely mentioned brave and that was [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► when I would have one moment invention [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► cars to either look like this before i [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► had seen car so I didn't know you know [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► but like and I think a lot of the things [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► in the book if we go back and listen to [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► the hypercritical episode you can see a [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► lot of things in the book that directly [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► speak to those particular points and a [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► lot of people ask me all right so given [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► that you've read this book do you feel [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► like it answers your question or your [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► you're concerned about what's wrong with [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► Pixar's and in many respects of course [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► illuminating and learning how things [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► happen or whatever but I in one [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► particular respect I think it it still [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► leaves the question unanswered and I [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► don't think this is necessarily weakness [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► of pixar but it's just the kind of [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► company decided to create is one in [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► which they have a system for making good [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► movies and like the brain trust is a [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► great example part of that system is at [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► various points in the development of a [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► movie we are going to have input from [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► all these other great smart creative [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► people to help you fix what's wrong with [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► your movie and we're gonna you know and [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► we're going to kill it if it looks like [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► it's not going anywhere or we're gonna [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► change the director if it looks like we [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► need to do that [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► right all these things are options on [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► the table all this is structured to not [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► allow a failure out into the market [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► essentially and that you would say is a [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► strength of it but i think the the [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► larger point i was getting at him in the [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► you know let me try to find something is [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► wrong with Pixar those comparing it to [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► miyazaki when you have one person who's [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► in charge who seems to have very limited [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► input from anyone else or sort of like [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► he does what he wants to do and there's [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► no brain trust is going to convince them [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► to this works it doesn't work that [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► person is going to put about a bunch of [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► weird movies with weak parts sometimes [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► total stinker movies but you also may [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► get eventually something that is [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► transcended that could never have been [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► produced by system that was subject to [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► that sort of collaborative process i'm [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► not saying one of those things is better [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► than the other but it's clear that Pixar [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► is the kind of company that is it [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► they've created a system a sort of [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► self-healing system whereby they can [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► make great movies and I i still wonder [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► if does that system preclude making a [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► transcendent movie alongside a bunch of [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► turds like or that we always that are [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► uneven or whatever because like you know [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► i guess like the auteur theory versus [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► you know within that the system they [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► made for making movies yes the director [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► has ultimate control and that your brain [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► trust doesn't have authority to tell [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► them what to do but it's still a process [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► its is an engineering approach to [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► creative work which i think is an [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► amazing innovation a breakthrough in [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► itself and who can argue with the [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► results but it definitely is a different [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► beast then we have one genius who threw [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► his lifetime is going to make a bunch of [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► movies some of them are going to be [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► great some of the middle weird someone's [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► going to be awful and one or two of them [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► are going to be the shining gems are you [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► ever going to get the shining James with [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► this process of pixar maybe they're just [TS]

00:36:49 ◼   ► different kind of gems Ruby's instead of [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► sapphires it comes back to the money [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► issue though to that you have to the [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► fact that they can put so much money and [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► walk away from most organizations cannot [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► say we put 10 or 15 million dollars into [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► development to this or whatever it is [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► more doctor releases almost movie [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► studios can now what you know they [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► release them they do different things [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► it's 120 business models out there is [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► the movie because all they need a few [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► really good hits every year and they can [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► finance a boatload of failure but they [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► release all the failures and tricks are [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► doesn't release them even as the amazing [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► part of a spike movies that you know [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► that there are lots of things and [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► behind-the-scenes and then i'm reminded [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► of something I was actually thinking [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► about while I was reading this a world [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► war z where the story is they took the [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► last day they had finished the movie and [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► they took the last 30 minutes of it and [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► said it's not working and they went out [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► and reshot the last 30 minutes with a [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► completely different script and it was a [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► hit been so it was like it [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► so I've seen that before but you're [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► right you movie studios that can afford [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► to spend millions of dollars reshoots [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► are the example here a lot of times you [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► just gonna get whipped into decent shape [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► and get out the door and betterment of [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► communication with even with a big movie [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► studios one of the ongoing problems [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► Hollywood has had is middle market or [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► experimental films are actually getting [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► squeezed down because right most studios [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► are now so profoundly risk averse and so [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► intent on the bottom line they're only [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► going to do what they consider to be [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► tentpole blockbusters your franchises [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► your sequels youryour licensable [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► characters [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► that's why we have movies based on old [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► TV shows right is because those are at [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► least they've got some free market but [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► another thing like for example a movie [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► like terms of endearment couldn't get me [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► today [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► XR isn't risk-averse though because they [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► have like that that whole process of [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► like we together as a company are going [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► to work to make sure this directors [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► movie succeeds we're going to take all [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► our collective experience and influence [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► try to like to to collaborate on this [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► morning yes that's the director's movie [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► but we're going to make sure that we [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► don't put it out anything bad [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► and those those sort of pressures and [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► input supplied like this the scene isn't [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► working and maybe this character could [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► be better whatever all that stuff makes [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► the movie better [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► the only thing I question about this [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► process is it do you end up with a [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► different type of movie a series of [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► really great movies and maybe a couple [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► of good ones but no bad ones versus a [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► process where an individual doesn't have [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► the benefit of that input and is going [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► to have scenes in the movie The don't [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► work they could have easily been fixed [TS]

00:39:03 ◼   ► by your brain just meeting is going to [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► have some movies that in in their [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► entirety don't work but that is also [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► occasionally going to be able to follow [TS]

00:39:09 ◼   ► his muse in a direction that would have [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► received feed good intelligent feedback [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► from other people that nevertheless [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► would have been shaving the edges [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► off the movie like and I keep picking [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► miyazaki because there are definitely [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► weird pointy edges and birds on those [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► movies and in some respects like that [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► the the the imperfections or the parts [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► that don't work or the things like if [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► you take any document we turn to the [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► brain does that tell you 50 things that [TS]

00:39:32 ◼   ► are wrong with it and yet somehow the [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► whole some tile feels different to me [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► than even my favorite pixar movies do [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► and i'm not saying that's a bad part of [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► the pixar process i'm saying that's [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► that's what they've made and it is [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► pretty amazing considering that that's [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► what made you think about the movie [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► studios who have like the broken version [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► of that machine was just like well we [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► take we take what was good and what time [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► to make a crappier and sometimes we find [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► stuff that we know is gonna be crap or [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► whatever Pixar's way above that level [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► but that was their example when they [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► took over dissonant disney and said oh [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► my god you know what we do here can this [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► process save this company and they felt [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► like when I actually it with wreck-it [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► Ralph and frozen i mean it it did you [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► write this as my husband point out the [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► last two disney animated movies to come [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► out which were record Robin frozen have [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► have been in his estimated information [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► better than the last two pixar movies [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► that have come [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► even so he feels like the balance he [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► feels like the balance of storytelling [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► in talent has shifted from one to the [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► other brave is also just a movie right [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► brain is not pixar know that was pretty [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► it's the only Pixar movie I really don't [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► like I haven't seen cars to yet so I i [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► have seen cars 2 and it wasn't a [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► terrible movie but it definitely like it [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► is definitely i wanted to say something [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► about that Miyazaki idea because John I [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► I totally get where you're coming from [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► and I i think i agree with you that it's [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► less likely that you're going to get [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► I mean even when you know we've been [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► Brad Brad Bird and understand these [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► people they step into that room and [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► they're still going to be part of the [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► process and they may lead it may bring [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► their idea to the table but it's it is [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► part of the story process and you wonder [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► if something very strange and [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► idiosyncratic will not happen because [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► the the the process won't allow it [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► that said Pixar has done some strange i [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► mean up has a lot of really weird things [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► about it and the first half hour of [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► Wally is a brilliant and weird uh and [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► dialogue lists set of images right so [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► it's not as if it's so I'm torn because [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► I think you're right but I feel like [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► there's more given the process then [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► maybe you might expect [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► here's the thing that would when you go [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► into the room or you when you have this [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► collaborative process and these ppl [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► office offer these suggestions there [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► right there right that this thing isn't [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► working in the subtle way that this [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► thing could be better in this way and [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► and maybe you should you need to figure [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► out what the problem is here because [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► this isn't there but that's why that's [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► why the machine works because all those [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► people are right right [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► I and it's not like they're making your [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► movie worse but they are changing it if [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► it's completely smooth like if you it's [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► not completely smooth that they're [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► they're making your movie better than it [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► was but they are closing the door on [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► some aspects of the way the movie could [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► have been if it had if everything had [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► gone well and if we got like was that [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► they're basically increasing your [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► batting average you're gonna do much [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► better they're going to make your movie [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► better and that's the danger of having [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► the input from all the smart people as [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► they are actually write about what but [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► it may be at that point if those people [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► weren't there what would you have done [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► would you have made a crappy movie [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► that's very likely are made a movie [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► that's worse [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► there's also the possibility depending [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► on who you are again the auteur theory [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► that like one person singular vision [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► with minimal input from everyone else is [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► there because they're megalomaniac [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► because they're insane because there's [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► no one in the company who has anywhere [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► close to their talent like all sorts of [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► unhealthy things that nevertheless [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► produced like over Miyazaki's lifetime [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► his collaborators work with people or [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► whatever but like no it's his singular [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► vision for the or someone else's vision [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► that he guides through to you know it's [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► like it's he could have benefited from [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► all these this kind of input and they [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► all would've been right and and he would [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► have known their right and he would have [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► listened to them but his movies would [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► have been different i have one kind of [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► great counter example of that which is [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► sky captain in the world of tomorrow [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► that was an otter vision nobody told him [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► is beautiful [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► you also have to be a genius that is the [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► difference between a good orator and [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► someone who just wants control what [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► that's my question is to the barriers [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► get lowered is like everything capital [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► is discussing is within the constraints [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► of films where they need who knows how [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► many teraflops of computation power and [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► the most sophisticated people working in [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► the field and constantly developing the [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► cutting edge of software again that echo [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► of steve jobs were jobs.can in through [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► jony ive's is [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► John I've is pushing at the limits of [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► what can be built in computer technology [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► and buying new kinds of lasers are [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► buying every kind of laser that makes a [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► special dot for the macbooks or special [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► transparent let you know [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► aluminum thing the same token like [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► Pixar's at the absolute cutting edge of [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► computer graphics science and that is [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► part of how they continue to be able to [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► advance the story telling [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► so can you be able to tell stories and [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► simpler ways without requiring [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► cutting-edge computer animation can one [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► person do it i think the answer is is [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► probably our small team the answer is [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► yes but i think in the structure of a [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► film of this scale of this type which [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► read some reaches a mass audience they [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► may have perfected that process by not [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► ever believing they perfected it but I i [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► actually completely agree with you John [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► is that you're gonna miss out because [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► you're making films even if they're [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► great on average are great and never [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► have stinkers you're never going to have [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► the imperfections that lead to the that [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► revision that's just totally out of [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► control because nobody even without [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► being risk-averse are not going to do it [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► in that environment [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► well and you know for instance it's it's [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► I I think we're all geeky enough that we [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► know who directed what pixar film long [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► before we read this book but for most [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► people they're gonna see that and go oh [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► that's a Pixar film where they might [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► look and say oh that's a Hitchcock film [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► that's a Tarantino film that so that's a [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► wes anderson film picture is the altar [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► and you know that's why it's really [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► interesting that Edgar Wright left and [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► man which is that's going to be a Marvel [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► film it and it was never going to be in [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► it you're right film yeah he was trying [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► to make it negative right film you get [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► that sense right and horrible is another [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► story committee was your clothes [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► oh god oh but we're all bummed out about [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► it maybe a much better [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► Marvel product at the end of it but it's [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► not going to have that stamp and that [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► weirdness and now my question to you and [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► this is complete the real from the book [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► but not a derail for the uncomfortable [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► um is if we're talking about marvel as [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► an imprint and so on and so forth how do [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► you explain the joss whedon influence as [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► it as it meshes into them to the marble [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► franchise because when you watch The [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► Adventures that's definitely good [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► got that's definitely more of a just [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► weak property in a lot of ways you know [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► but he's a very natural fit I mean buffy [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► the vampire slayer is right on that [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► temple yeah it's in my defense it's [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► basically the same since it's so it's [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► just a matter of saying we translate we [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► would given Buffy Russian backstory and [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► yeah I i think it's and Vander is now [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► useless Archer and no no [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► so here's the thing marvel to has a has [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► a brain trust you know a collection of [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► producers and writers that they bring in [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► and break down their stories with the [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► end you know I think the comics do too [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► but the individual comic writers often [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► have more latitude for something like [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► these movies they have something very [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► similar and and in this case I think [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► what they wanted to find somebody who [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► was a kindred spirit who could you know [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► put this story together and and be that [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► be the writer and director but also work [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► within their framework and so I think [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► John spring and joss whedon to do the [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► Avengers is maybe not that different [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► from from bringing in now I'm going to [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► blank on his name Brad Bird bringing in [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► brad bird to do the incredibles rite aid [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► he was a known quantity had done the [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► iron giant it was a huge hit at the box [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► office but everybody loved it and he had [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► the idea for the incredibles and studios [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► wanted this is something i didn't know [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► studios wanted him to bring that idea to [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► them and he ended up bringing it to [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► Pixar and so he brought his idea and he [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► was a known quantity but when he came he [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► came into the the committee and into the [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► group and into the process and and [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► that's how I sort of feel like the joss [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► whedon thing is it's kinda like that [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► you're bringing a known quantity into a [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► system somebody who you think is going [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► to be a kindred spirit and sometimes [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► that doesn't work out right like with [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► ant-man and did you know that they fell [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► apart and when we see with these pixar [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► movies that like brave you know was one [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► of those examples where they fired the [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► director and she left and they brought [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► in another director to to make the end [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► of the movie different and get it to be [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► what they wanted it to be a lot less [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► like it I love brave and I own the [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► blu-ray so we can guide you or Dan or [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► whatever your name is [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► yeah I'll be there now ok I'll go ahead [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► i think i think dan would point out [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► that Josh was already part of the Marvel [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► family because he'd been writing x-men [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► comics for several years at that point [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► he was not just a known quantity [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► tomorrow but he had actively worked with [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► Marvel you have a duck comics are nice [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► and that's not why I'm faster with the [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► penalty Marvel and pixar now because if [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► you look at the different directors to [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► have different styles and one of the [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► things that Marvel i think is done [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► possibly a little bit better than DC is [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► it gives riders their own voice in their [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► own head [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► yes head of steam as it were I think [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► Marvel does a great job of saying this [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► you know what Brian Michael Bendis is [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► your book like you can always tell when [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► you're reading brian michael bendis you [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► can always tell when you're reading [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► Oh God Runaways a distraction or oh yeah [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► Brian coupon yeah Brian came on that [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► fraction you know anything like that [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► MDC feels a little bit more committee as [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► it was I mean Gail Simone was the [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► glorious exception to that but you know [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► it does feel a little bit more by [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► committee [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► whereas marble gives gives riders a [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► little bit more space to be writers and [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► I feel like Pixar kind of that with the [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► directors about well i would say you [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► know I talk about Brad Bird bringing [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► incredibles in from the outside I sort [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► of feel like the incredibles is more uh [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► just you know it's it's different from [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► Pixar and just by a few degrees it feels [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► a little different its stand it stands [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► apart a little bit I idea and I think [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► brave i think brave stands apart a [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► little bit to it always it doesn't like [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► it i'm a break as well but regardless of [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► whether you like it or not [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► don't you feel like it stands apart a [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► little bit in the same way the [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► incredibles do like I don't even at a [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► distance from maybe from things like [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► Wally which seems so exotic but really [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► feel like fits into the picture mode but [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► then you've got incredible but seems one [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► half step removed and brave to me also [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► seems a little bit different i agree i [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► think brave is a very it's a different [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► kind of storytelling in tone and [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► attitude and and and and all the rest it [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► was it was also i don't wanna get back [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► to the technology too much but i think [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► it does circle around that is I think [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► that's where like brave for me i [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► remember seeing when I when I think [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► Apple put out a trailer of it or [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► something was up shit came up on the [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► apple itunes section and they were [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► really you know that hair her hair was [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► unbelievable and they said they led with [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► the hair and we all knew the story but [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► the story the hair is part of the story [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► that here is actually an element it's [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► used in the storytelling so you can't [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► even that [TS]

00:50:19 ◼   ► that level you're like they bound up [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► this incredible new capability to make [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► hair and bear fur and everything else [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► with the story they told you know [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► there's some there's actually a lot of [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► parallels between brave and frozen and [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► I've seen frozen approximately 65 times [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► because i have a [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► three-and-a-half-year-old daughter also [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► also the frozen which which by the way [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► if you have even a single track and [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► Ralph and toy story 2 is that I'm not a [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► single actually want some frozen where [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► they have put where they force the [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► software the ice and the texture there [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► is just stunning [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► oh my haha like you watch the what you [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► watch the light filtering through the [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► ice down into the water and then the [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► salt salt plunges through and I thought [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► oh my god I've never seen that that that [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► that then that quality before that that [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► play of light and liquid they've managed [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► to capture that but now my problems the [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► breaker from the storytelling thing but [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► i agree that the incredibles is kind of [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► it i I've always thought in a class by [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► itself [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► yeah um that said ratatouille is my [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► second favorite Pixar movie and I get [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► the feeling i'm in a distinct minority [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► on the apple and you know i love [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► ratatouille yeah it's my husband's [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► favorite movie for actually since and I [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► think I didn't mention is really smart [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► that cattle mentions in the book he says [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► who would make a movie where wet rats [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► are making food and not me not me [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► that is my favorite see when the rats go [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► in the dishwasher they dry out the steam [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► room [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► no but you know that's a case where they [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► fired the director and brought inbred [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► bird may change the they change the [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► movie of course the movie will get back [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► to Pixar in a minute but I want to tell [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► you about one of our sponsors for this [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► episode it's the good people at [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► ifixit.com you've heard me talk about [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► them before I fix it is the world's free [TS]

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00:52:04 ◼   ► that's only a slight understatement [TS]

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00:52:09 ◼   ► some piece of technology i almost [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► invariably end up at ifixit.com [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► excellent step-by-step repair guides [TS]

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00:53:10 ◼   ► laptops crew because apples got this [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► devilishly weird screw on it it's in the [TS]

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00:53:19 ◼   ► need to take the i'm betting a lot of [TS]

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00:53:23 ◼   ► on their block or in their family that [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► everybody comes to with all their [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► computer and technology questions help i [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► need to fix this thing you got the [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► toolkit you've got the tools to do what [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► you need to do to get those people back [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► in shape its gold standard for [TS]

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00:53:57 ◼   ► to go with GI can't open that I don't [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► know what that is and then it's got all [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► those other tools to get into cramped [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► spaces and computers like spongers is [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► the nylon metal plastic all the [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► different ways that you can get in the [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► cracks and pop these things open in [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► order to repair them so 70 pieces 1 year [TS]

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00:54:16 ◼   ► thousands of free i fix of guides you [TS]

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00:54:25 ◼   ► out both for the toolkit and for their [TS]

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00:54:45 ◼   ► dot-com / uncomfortable and thank you so [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► much do i fix it for sponsoring the [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► incomparable well I want to talk about [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► it ties into some of this I think is a [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► the fact that they try so much why [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► there's experimentation is baked into [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► their culture because they come from [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► that research background and I think [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► there's a direct correlation there's a [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► reason I mean this book is actually a [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► beautifully told story even though it [TS]

00:55:07 ◼   ► gets dry at points i think he diverges [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► into things that are sort of business [TS]

00:55:11 ◼   ► your technology is you know very early [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► on he talks about how he drew all these [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► you know polygons on his hand so you [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► create a hand you know the first [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► animated hand computer-animated hand and [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► it's an extraordinary bit of that he [TS]

00:55:25 ◼   ► wanted to you know hands are the ones [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► telling things of the body and in [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► paintings in Renaissance times even [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► today you pay more to have the hands of [TS]