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The Incomparable

203: Get to the Farting Aliens

 

00:00:00   comfortable number 203 july 2014 [TS]

00:00:13   welcome back to the uncomfortable [TS]

00:00:15   podcast I'm your host Jason Snell up in [TS]

00:00:17   november of last year we spent some time [TS]

00:00:19   talking about Doctor Who on the occasion [TS]

00:00:21   of the 50th anniversary of dr. who and [TS]

00:00:23   it's a show that I love I love the old [TS]

00:00:25   series when I was in in high school and [TS]

00:00:28   I love the new series now and we have a [TS]

00:00:30   great reaction from it and a lot of [TS]

00:00:32   people were talking about where you [TS]

00:00:35   should get started if you're new doctor [TS]

00:00:36   who and also just we're interested in us [TS]

00:00:38   talking more about it and while the [TS]

00:00:39   fabric is not a doctor who podcast we do [TS]

00:00:41   talk about it we've done our flash cast [TS]

00:00:43   about the new series as the episodes [TS]

00:00:46   have aired and in the interim because [TS]

00:00:48   the new series isn't coming back for [TS]

00:00:50   another month and a half or so as we [TS]

00:00:52   record this I thought it would be a good [TS]

00:00:54   time to talk about Doctor Who a little [TS]

00:00:55   more so we're going to talk about where [TS]

00:00:57   to get started with Doctor Who and we're [TS]

00:00:58   also going to talk about the russell t [TS]

00:01:00   davies Sarah which is the 2005 to 2010 [TS]

00:01:04   but only if you count new years day of [TS]

00:01:07   2010 era of the show so probably will [TS]

00:01:10   say five years the first five years of [TS]

00:01:12   the of the relaunch of the series [TS]

00:01:13   joining me are actually I believe RR [TS]

00:01:16   same panel of Doctor Who experts and / [TS]

00:01:19   fans / people that we had in November [TS]

00:01:22   for the 50th anniversary episode we're [TS]

00:01:24   caught in the time loop that's right by [TS]

00:01:26   voice you just heard its chips under the [TS]

00:01:29   host of the 2-minute Time Lord podcast [TS]

00:01:32   and co-host of the audio guide to [TS]

00:01:33   Babylon 5 hi chip welcome back [TS]

00:01:36   hey thanks for having me back i enjoy it [TS]

00:01:38   it's good to have you here will go for [TS]

00:01:40   longer than two minutes again so you [TS]

00:01:41   know again you get to spread your wings [TS]

00:01:43   don't talk so fast slow it down a little [TS]

00:01:45   and soak a working with Erica on the b5 [TS]

00:01:48   podcast i am flexing my muscles I'm [TS]

00:01:51   exercising I'm hydrating I'm ready to [TS]

00:01:53   talk [TS]

00:01:54   yeah that my guests can often be you [TS]

00:01:56   know for 57 minutes long or longer [TS]

00:02:00   uh Erica and sign you mentioned you [TS]

00:02:02   mentioned her and she is also here [TS]

00:02:04   because again the Babylon 5 podcast that [TS]

00:02:07   she's with you and your wife Shannon on [TS]

00:02:08   the audio guide to Babylon 5 but also [TS]

00:02:10   one of the hosts of of the hugo [TS]

00:02:12   nominated Verity [TS]

00:02:13   accounts which is a doctor podcast hello [TS]

00:02:15   hello and I'm unplugging everything [TS]

00:02:17   tonight apparently think that's awesome [TS]

00:02:19   i just i still it still makes me like [TS]

00:02:22   just shake my head a little bit when you [TS]

00:02:23   say hero nominated i know i'm just gonna [TS]

00:02:25   keep saying it [TS]

00:02:26   I am honored and it's awesome but it [TS]

00:02:28   still makes me feel weird [TS]

00:02:29   yeah at least I didn't say her like this [TS]

00:02:32   is not in paul Cornell's Hugo nominated [TS]

00:02:34   comic book this is also true and that [TS]

00:02:38   laughter you hear you know I'm you love [TS]

00:02:40   and you can't live without him and if [TS]

00:02:41   you follow him on twitter you can't live [TS]

00:02:43   with him it's glenn freshman hi this is [TS]

00:02:45   an excellent reduction we get the music [TS]

00:02:47   feeling like there should be thin man [TS]

00:02:49   and i just have like a giant glass of [TS]

00:02:51   sugar before we got on the air so I'm [TS]

00:02:55   ready to go [TS]

00:02:56   I can't say I'm happy to be here yeah [TS]

00:02:58   just to get how do you get how do you [TS]

00:03:00   get pumped up to the doctor who episode [TS]

00:03:01   so so let's get started by talking about [TS]

00:03:05   where where people should get started [TS]

00:03:07   because i think that's a good way in and [TS]

00:03:09   then if people haven't watched the [TS]

00:03:11   russell t davies here yet they can they [TS]

00:03:13   can tune out and if they want to and and [TS]

00:03:16   come back to that part of the [TS]

00:03:17   conversation later but it was definitely [TS]

00:03:19   something i heard over and over again in [TS]

00:03:21   november when everybody's talking about [TS]

00:03:22   the 50th and when our episode posted [TS]

00:03:25   that a lot of people who are so casual [TS]

00:03:27   sci-fi fans and don't have heard about [TS]

00:03:28   it and and something we going to mention [TS]

00:03:31   before we got started the intimidation [TS]

00:03:32   of 50 years of history and thinking [TS]

00:03:34   about how do i get caught up in all this [TS]

00:03:37   continuity and what should I learn in [TS]

00:03:38   other episodes i should use sort of [TS]

00:03:40   putting a modern TV series question on [TS]

00:03:43   something like Doctor Who that I think [TS]

00:03:45   you just can't he can't compare this is [TS]

00:03:47   not the kind of thing that you must go [TS]

00:03:49   back to episode 1 and of of 1964 and [TS]

00:03:52   their 1963 and go from there it's it you [TS]

00:03:55   can't do it so I'm curious i wrote a [TS]

00:03:59   thing on the internet about this too but [TS]

00:04:01   you know there was no right answer i'm [TS]

00:04:02   just curious in your past or what you [TS]

00:04:05   would do now if somebody came up to you [TS]

00:04:06   and said how do i get started with [TS]

00:04:07   doctor who you know what would be your [TS]

00:04:09   prescription if it's somebody who's like [TS]

00:04:12   just they're curious and they're [TS]

00:04:13   interested in you want to share your [TS]

00:04:14   love the show but they just don't know [TS]

00:04:16   where to start [TS]

00:04:16   chip what do you think I think that [TS]

00:04:18   paradoxically because we're getting [TS]

00:04:21   ready to talk about the recipe Davis [TS]

00:04:22   here which is my favorite era [TS]

00:04:24   I'd have to say that the best jumping on [TS]

00:04:27   point is the episode that said goodbye [TS]

00:04:30   to the russell t davies Sarah and that's [TS]

00:04:32   the eleventh hour show run by the [TS]

00:04:35   current producer Steven Moffat it gives [TS]

00:04:39   you a bit of the history but it's a [TS]

00:04:41   fantastic stand-alones all in one [TS]

00:04:44   episode that introduces a new doctor [TS]

00:04:47   introduces a whole new status quo which [TS]

00:04:49   means it's a perfect stuff jumping on [TS]

00:04:51   point with no baggage to deal with [TS]

00:04:55   really that's interesting i made I made [TS]

00:04:57   reference to that in a blog post that I [TS]

00:05:00   wrote and people had some people who are [TS]

00:05:02   like what are you crazy and I actually [TS]

00:05:04   hadn't meant to recommend it [TS]

00:05:06   I I that wasn't my recommendation i just [TS]

00:05:08   said it was a possible starting off [TS]

00:05:10   point but uh I do wonder because that [TS]

00:05:13   was from 2010 I do wonder as time goes [TS]

00:05:15   on [TS]

00:05:16   if that is going to be more of a [TS]

00:05:18   consensus jumping on point only because [TS]

00:05:21   it won't seem you know it won't seem as [TS]

00:05:24   old it is five years newer in terms of [TS]

00:05:26   the look and that special effects and [TS]

00:05:27   all that and I worry if you're [TS]

00:05:29   introducing somebody to the show that if [TS]

00:05:30   you make them go too far back they might [TS]

00:05:32   even get turned off by things feeling [TS]

00:05:34   dated I'm not sure 2005 feels dated that [TS]

00:05:37   much at this point but there's going to [TS]

00:05:39   be a time if not now there's going to be [TS]

00:05:40   a time and the eleventh hour has some [TS]

00:05:42   baggage with it but it is it also has a [TS]

00:05:45   lot going for it [TS]

00:05:47   I have I have two words for you about [TS]

00:05:50   whether the 2005 first episode feels [TS]

00:05:55   dated garbage bin yeah one additional [TS]

00:05:58   word burp he know that was but that was [TS]

00:06:01   that was bad then this that's the [TS]

00:06:04   difference between something that's data [TS]

00:06:06   and something that's mean yeah I were [TS]

00:06:08   and we're going to talk about the rtd [TS]

00:06:09   era in general here too but thatthat's [TS]

00:06:11   there is there's some weird tone they [TS]

00:06:14   didn't know what they were doing they [TS]

00:06:16   didn't even know how to make that show [TS]

00:06:17   when they made those episodes and you [TS]

00:06:18   can see it's all over the place and [TS]

00:06:20   looking back you can see all the good in [TS]

00:06:22   it but it's certainly not of the level [TS]

00:06:24   of quality and consistency that you get [TS]

00:06:26   with something like the eleventh hour [TS]

00:06:28   that the start of the Steven Moffat era [TS]

00:06:30   where it is it's an HD if the effects [TS]

00:06:33   are our great it is beautifully shot the [TS]

00:06:35   cinematography the show's never looked [TS]

00:06:37   better [TS]

00:06:37   and it's got a new doctor a new [TS]

00:06:39   companion so there's no baggage or [TS]

00:06:41   history so it's not as if there was a [TS]

00:06:43   crossover companion from the like with [TS]

00:06:45   david tennant's first episode it's it's [TS]

00:06:47   it's a clean slate and I and I think the [TS]

00:06:52   evidence in the growing fandom in the [TS]

00:06:53   u.s. to matt smith suggest that a lot of [TS]

00:06:56   people kind of discovered it when it [TS]

00:06:58   went to BBC america and Matt Smith came [TS]

00:07:00   on board so i think a lot of people have [TS]

00:07:02   used that as a jumping-off point you [TS]

00:07:04   know it's not even just a clean slate as [TS]

00:07:06   far as the doctor and the companion but [TS]

00:07:08   behind the scenes it's practically a [TS]

00:07:09   clean slate as well you have not only [TS]

00:07:11   the showrunner changing over with matt [TS]

00:07:13   smith but a lot of the other producers [TS]

00:07:15   and and folks behind the scenes so that [TS]

00:07:17   just as has happened many times in the [TS]

00:07:20   past and doctor who you really are [TS]

00:07:22   starting over a little bit still the [TS]

00:07:24   same character but it's not the same [TS]

00:07:26   character and I think that that that is [TS]

00:07:28   one of the best places to jump on it is [TS]

00:07:31   and that is also one of the biggest [TS]

00:07:33   challenges in getting somebody into the [TS]

00:07:35   show is that doctor who has been so many [TS]

00:07:37   shows over the years it's really hard to [TS]

00:07:41   get a modern-day new viewer to give the [TS]

00:07:45   classic series to try it's so hard to [TS]

00:07:47   get people to give any classic series of [TS]

00:07:50   try when you've got modern show as it [TS]

00:07:54   has a different example as a different [TS]

00:07:56   option you've got the modern show that's [TS]

00:07:57   filmed in widescreen and has decent [TS]

00:08:00   special effects and all that so doctor [TS]

00:08:03   who is all kinds of different shows [TS]

00:08:05   where to start i would say start as [TS]

00:08:09   early as you can with something that [TS]

00:08:11   resembles what's on TV now and for me [TS]

00:08:14   that's the eleventh hour [TS]

00:08:15   well i would take a different stance [TS]

00:08:17   just so that I'm not saying the same [TS]

00:08:19   thing as everyone else I have more mixed [TS]

00:08:20   feelings about the Matt Smith era I was [TS]

00:08:22   not as big a massive fan although i [TS]

00:08:23   really liked him a lot of episodes I [TS]

00:08:25   felt like the writing has been more [TS]

00:08:27   uneven in the Mafia era and I feel like [TS]

00:08:31   it's upset feel like a total wash to me [TS]

00:08:33   and so my dubiousness about getting [TS]

00:08:36   people to start with 11th hour although [TS]

00:08:37   I agree with everything all three of you [TS]

00:08:38   say about that [TS]

00:08:40   it's a different era I feel like if [TS]

00:08:42   we're talking about and you know sort of [TS]

00:08:44   the Russell different do not talk about [TS]

00:08:45   Russell Davis [TS]

00:08:46   exactly right now but i think if you [TS]

00:08:48   want to say why did this garner so much [TS]

00:08:51   interest that have been exploded and [TS]

00:08:52   continue to grow into what was the math [TS]

00:08:55   smitha i would say let me be provocative [TS]

00:08:58   and say Christmas invasion [TS]

00:09:00   alright because it's a little bit of a [TS]

00:09:02   break so I i love Chris Eccleston I [TS]

00:09:05   think he did a fantastic [TS]

00:09:06   he totally reinterpreted what the doctor [TS]

00:09:08   was about while remaining entirely in [TS]

00:09:10   the tradition of it and we talked about [TS]

00:09:12   that i think a year ago but like that [TS]

00:09:13   maniacal smile he could come up with was [TS]

00:09:15   so Tom Baker it was it was like a great [TS]

00:09:18   homage to it was his own thing and so I [TS]

00:09:21   thought Chris Eccleston an amazing job [TS]

00:09:23   and I loved many of his episodes are so [TS]

00:09:25   are terrific and my favorites but like [TS]

00:09:27   the whole bad wolf are can return the [TS]

00:09:30   Daleks always so but that said I think [TS]

00:09:32   david tennant was more approachable and [TS]

00:09:34   reachable I think the stories started to [TS]

00:09:36   get more sophisticated and if someone [TS]

00:09:37   started with Christmas invasion that [TS]

00:09:39   eventually circle back to eccleston the [TS]

00:09:41   Christmas invasion then they go to New [TS]

00:09:43   Earth which is an interesting bizarre i [TS]

00:09:45   mean your plot holes aside let's to say [TS]

00:09:47   what you have to say with dr. we don't [TS]

00:09:48   worry about some of the plot issues [TS]

00:09:50   without the words that calls back but [TS]

00:09:52   it's also great to think law is kind of [TS]

00:09:54   all over the place [TS]

00:09:56   I don't know what you're talking about [TS]

00:09:57   glad when I get a horrible infection i [TS]

00:09:59   hope the people spray colorful liquid on [TS]

00:10:01   me to secure it [TS]

00:10:03   I don't know what you're talking about [TS]

00:10:04   it's true sure that's I'd like to be [TS]

00:10:06   locked up in cells and cured and [TS]

00:10:08   garfield over here then you get a school [TS]

00:10:10   reunion which we get Sarah Jane back to [TS]

00:10:12   anyone who knew about the old series [TS]

00:10:13   because it ain't enough we get Mickey [TS]

00:10:15   back and we started making integrated [TS]

00:10:16   weed girl in the fireplace and the [TS]

00:10:18   Cybermen and then I think you know this [TS]

00:10:20   season goes on and I think it's a very [TS]

00:10:22   strong season so if you're trying to [TS]

00:10:23   tell somebody what the scope of the [TS]

00:10:26   Davis area and the sort of new thing is [TS]

00:10:28   about I think this tells a lot of [TS]

00:10:29   stories and girl the fireplace of course [TS]

00:10:31   I think it's one of the best episodes of [TS]

00:10:33   the modern modern run so I like some of [TS]

00:10:37   the others quite a bit [TS]

00:10:38   Wow my eyes just rolled in the back of [TS]

00:10:40   my head there you don't think about it [TS]

00:10:44   as we revealed in the episode november [TS]

00:10:46   that is one of my very very favorite new [TS]

00:10:48   series episodes but you know doctor who [TS]

00:10:51   is an amazing yeah we were all so [TS]

00:10:53   diametrically opposed to an orphan black [TS]

00:10:55   episodes so you know it happens [TS]

00:10:57   different strokes but this is good we [TS]

00:10:58   give people multiple [TS]

00:10:59   entrance points to so I wanted to jump [TS]

00:11:01   on that just for a second to say i think [TS]

00:11:02   it's i think it's not a bad idea i think [TS]

00:11:04   i think it's a less bumpy ride then the [TS]

00:11:07   then the the Christopher Eccleston's [TS]

00:11:09   season there's a moment in tooth and [TS]

00:11:12   claw new earth is is a strange episode [TS]

00:11:14   there's a moment in tooth and claw where [TS]

00:11:17   I turned to my wife we're watching I [TS]

00:11:18   said they figured out how to do this [TS]

00:11:20   show because like I said the first [TS]

00:11:21   season was kinda in and out and strange [TS]

00:11:23   and in tooth and claw I'm like oh they [TS]

00:11:25   got it they are confident and they did [TS]

00:11:27   you know it's a working confident they [TS]

00:11:29   figured it out and yeah well that's the [TS]

00:11:31   argument right but it's like competently [TS]

00:11:33   produced they kind of know what tone [TS]

00:11:35   they're going for it it's not a shaky [TS]

00:11:38   season as the first season is I think [TS]

00:11:40   but it's still got some issues it's just [TS]

00:11:42   as farting aliens that that's for me [TS]

00:11:44   that's the big problem is that although [TS]

00:11:45   i think you should start with Rose I [TS]

00:11:47   think that is the you should be the [TS]

00:11:49   right answer but the problem is unless [TS]

00:11:51   you are reaching somebody who is really [TS]

00:11:52   committed to this if they're just [TS]

00:11:54   curious i worry about turning out on [TS]

00:11:56   Rose because they're going to get to [TS]

00:11:58   fighting aliens really fast and and then [TS]

00:12:00   they've got the long game I there's a [TS]

00:12:02   there's a run of weak weak episodes [TS]

00:12:04   before it kind of picks up at the end [TS]

00:12:06   my doctor is david tennant on baker and [TS]

00:12:09   david tennant are my two doctors so that [TS]

00:12:12   really feels my bias which is why i [TS]

00:12:14   would say that's part of why I give that [TS]

00:12:16   extra point even though i love [TS]

00:12:17   Eccleston's and I I think matt smith is [TS]

00:12:19   great said scripting aside like I don't [TS]

00:12:21   say don't watch the mat smith episodes [TS]

00:12:23   or whatever but it's you have to be I [TS]

00:12:25   think it's jason saying much more [TS]

00:12:26   committed to the series before you go [TS]

00:12:27   back and watch echoes thing because [TS]

00:12:28   you're watching with the more jaundiced [TS]

00:12:30   eye and then the Smith series starting [TS]

00:12:33   with that are so different in appearance [TS]

00:12:35   that they could make everything before [TS]

00:12:37   it seemed really 1980s almost yeah but [TS]

00:12:40   there's so much content after that you [TS]

00:12:42   know if you if you start them with matt [TS]

00:12:44   smith there's lots and lots of matt [TS]

00:12:46   smith episodes to go [TS]

00:12:47   I think it's dangerous to sort of try to [TS]

00:12:49   come up with a one-size-fits-all entry [TS]

00:12:51   point i think if it's a a co-worker or [TS]

00:12:53   an acquaintance you don't know very well [TS]

00:12:55   then maybe the eleventh hour is is the [TS]

00:12:57   the smartest one to go with but if it's [TS]

00:13:00   somebody that you actually kind of know [TS]

00:13:01   a little bit take into account with [TS]

00:13:03   their personality is like are they the [TS]

00:13:05   kind of a nerd that is willing to commit [TS]

00:13:07   and will actually sit through the stuff [TS]

00:13:09   that you see in the first season first [TS]

00:13:11   series because the neck [TS]

00:13:12   case I think Rose is a good place to [TS]

00:13:14   jump in but if it's somebody who really [TS]

00:13:16   wants to be on the train right away and [TS]

00:13:19   be able to watch the new episodes as [TS]

00:13:20   they come out i mean like you said we're [TS]

00:13:22   only about a month and a half away from [TS]

00:13:23   the new seasons starting and if it's [TS]

00:13:26   somebody that's gonna want to be caught [TS]

00:13:27   up [TS]

00:13:28   maybe he's telling to wait and just [TS]

00:13:29   start right now because there is no bad [TS]

00:13:32   place to start with Doctor Who I don't [TS]

00:13:34   think every night I know people who have [TS]

00:13:35   started in all kinds of crazy ways and [TS]

00:13:37   have become really huge fans [TS]

00:13:39   well the first episode I saw was the [TS]

00:13:41   power of Kroll and i'm still here so I [TS]

00:13:43   know a number of people on Twitter said [TS]

00:13:45   they started with wrote they said all [TS]

00:13:46   right I'm gonna binge-watch this i [TS]

00:13:47   started with rose and then I stopped and [TS]

00:13:50   I'm like all like it's not that Rose is [TS]

00:13:52   a terrible episode it's got a lot of [TS]

00:13:53   great stuff in it and you know the [TS]

00:13:55   vulnerability and strength that Billie [TS]

00:13:57   Piper has i think is shown in that first [TS]

00:13:59   episode Eccleston's sort of like he's to [TS]

00:14:02   find the character in that episode even [TS]

00:14:03   if the show is the clunky I think it's a [TS]

00:14:06   great final episode but if people are [TS]

00:14:07   saying i watched rose and then I stopped [TS]

00:14:10   like okay that's if you if you give up [TS]

00:14:12   there you're way too early there's you [TS]

00:14:14   know now 8 years 9 years beyond that [TS]

00:14:16   much of witches is better than that [TS]

00:14:18   episode even the same season you're [TS]

00:14:20   gonna find stuff better than that [TS]

00:14:21   episode [TS]

00:14:21   yeah if you're really invested in being [TS]

00:14:23   on board right away but you don't want [TS]

00:14:25   to just jump in i would suggest starting [TS]

00:14:27   with the probably the Clara episodes so [TS]

00:14:30   maybe you know the snowman or something [TS]

00:14:33   like that might that's where my sister [TS]

00:14:34   started actually with a snowman and she [TS]

00:14:36   enjoyed it so much that she went all the [TS]

00:14:38   way back to Rose and is almost all the [TS]

00:14:40   way wrapped around and caught up and she [TS]

00:14:42   plans to be all the way through the rest [TS]

00:14:43   of the mat smith ones she hadn't seen by [TS]

00:14:45   the time the new one starts with Peter [TS]

00:14:47   Capaldi and that that brought her in [TS]

00:14:49   that's a nice that's a nice approach i [TS]

00:14:51   tried to evangelize my brother on this [TS]

00:14:54   thing I talked about it on my podcast [TS]

00:14:55   two-minute timelord 336 and the problem [TS]

00:14:59   was that here i am saying that this is a [TS]

00:15:03   fantastic show you should watch it and [TS]

00:15:05   the universal truth of brothers is if [TS]

00:15:08   you like something your brother is [TS]

00:15:09   predisposed to hate it so i kept I tried [TS]

00:15:13   rose and he was it the the burping trash [TS]

00:15:17   bin that was it i tried blink and you [TS]

00:15:22   know you're in trouble when the up [TS]

00:15:26   objection to the episode is it's just [TS]

00:15:28   people running and being chased by [TS]

00:15:30   creature things bye-bye pokey creature [TS]

00:15:33   things which is the which is in doctor [TS]

00:15:37   whose DNA [TS]

00:15:38   yeah yeah there it doesn't show of lots [TS]

00:15:40   of running in aliens [TS]

00:15:42   well I do like they did they ran like [TS]

00:15:44   they ran with it sorry in the modern [TS]

00:15:46   series that there's just that joke about [TS]

00:15:47   what did you say I said run [TS]

00:15:49   what did he say to you he said run what [TS]

00:15:50   do you say run run [TS]

00:15:52   ok alright well now we're just saying [TS]

00:15:53   that we're just going to say we're not [TS]

00:15:54   gonna be coy this is what the shows [TS]

00:15:56   about the one episode that finally [TS]

00:15:58   seemed to stick with him was the [TS]

00:16:00   doctor's wife but that is a horrible [TS]

00:16:02   episode for showing somebody that you [TS]

00:16:04   haven't already tried to get them in [TS]

00:16:07   with a few episodes before and it [TS]

00:16:09   requires a bit of appreciation for the [TS]

00:16:11   series in the first place so this was [TS]

00:16:13   going to be one of my questions is the [TS]

00:16:14   approach of trying to pick cherry-pick [TS]

00:16:16   episodes versus trying to just say look [TS]

00:16:18   start here and and and binge-watch which [TS]

00:16:20   we can do now and if if you're not [TS]

00:16:23   holding your hand saying all right we're [TS]

00:16:24   gonna watch this one together and I'm [TS]

00:16:25   gonna ask you questions afterward and [TS]

00:16:27   then we'll see where we go from here [TS]

00:16:28   which you could do if your prescribed [TS]

00:16:30   like you will you do with your brother [TS]

00:16:32   which is we're just gonna watch blink [TS]

00:16:33   and I've heard a lot of people say i [TS]

00:16:34   would show people I would show people [TS]

00:16:36   blink which I find strange because [TS]

00:16:37   although I do love that episode I think [TS]

00:16:39   it's a great episode [TS]

00:16:40   it's also so not a doctor who episode in [TS]

00:16:42   so many ways it's so-so off format from [TS]

00:16:45   the series that I'm not sure what it [TS]

00:16:47   proves [TS]

00:16:48   other than that it's a weird time travel [TS]

00:16:50   show [TS]

00:16:51   I i wrote a blog post on this once [TS]

00:16:53   myself just about how it really is an [TS]

00:16:56   excellent example of writing and it [TS]

00:16:58   grabs you and it just it shows you know [TS]

00:17:00   what the show can do if you let the [TS]

00:17:02   person know at the outset that it's kind [TS]

00:17:04   of an outlier I i think at the end of it [TS]

00:17:07   most of the people I've shown it to have [TS]

00:17:08   been so excited that they were like this [TS]

00:17:10   is awesome [TS]

00:17:11   I i want to see more and then they're [TS]

00:17:13   willing to buy in and willing to put up [TS]

00:17:15   with a burping trash bins in the [TS]

00:17:16   fighting aliens because they know [TS]

00:17:17   there's something like this on around [TS]

00:17:19   lots of body functions that forgot about [TS]

00:17:22   a doctor here that's for sure [TS]

00:17:23   I wonder actually come to think of it if [TS]

00:17:26   Smith and Jones the third season over [TS]

00:17:28   there isn't a bad it isn't a bad opening [TS]

00:17:31   gambit in terms of it it's it's [TS]

00:17:35   self-contained it introduces a new [TS]

00:17:37   companion which means that it [TS]

00:17:39   is to introduce the doctor and it's it's [TS]

00:17:43   got good characters it's got some goofy [TS]

00:17:46   high-concept stuff like a hospital on [TS]

00:17:48   the minute moon i love the creepy creepy [TS]

00:17:51   alien she's great you know robo whoa [TS]

00:17:53   whoa whoa no no you know i know i just [TS]

00:17:56   i'm just doing some june because i can [TS]

00:17:58   get the lady with the straw old lady [TS]

00:18:00   with the strong she was great everyone [TS]

00:18:01   like my son still talks about her that [TS]

00:18:03   actress was just on TV when we were [TS]

00:18:05   flipping through my god it's just the [TS]

00:18:08   but now is the thing that is most [TS]

00:18:10   terrifying but now it's like old women [TS]

00:18:12   and guys and motorcycle outfits and they [TS]

00:18:13   grabbed him and suck your blood like oh [TS]

00:18:15   that's much worse than you know [TS]

00:18:17   chameleons yeah check out last tango in [TS]

00:18:19   halifax if you want to see what she's [TS]

00:18:20   doing now [TS]

00:18:21   cool she's great one of the reasons that [TS]

00:18:24   I'm suggesting that is that it's got [TS]

00:18:26   it's sort of proto doctor who and if in [TS]

00:18:30   the person watching it is going to know [TS]

00:18:32   if the rest of the show is for them or [TS]

00:18:34   not because they can either deal with [TS]

00:18:36   the hospital on the moon or they can it [TS]

00:18:38   right and it's it's I mean it's [TS]

00:18:40   constructed as I I think Russell T Davis [TS]

00:18:43   get a lot of thought to these [TS]

00:18:45   introductory episodes and and viewed [TS]

00:18:48   them as being landing point starting off [TS]

00:18:50   points44 new viewers and actually one of [TS]

00:18:54   the nice things about Smith and Jones to [TS]

00:18:55   is that the the time travel element [TS]

00:18:57   doesn't isn't there to complicate things [TS]

00:19:00   in fact it's only there in a gag which [TS]

00:19:03   is a smart gag because it shows that he [TS]

00:19:06   does have a time machine but it's not [TS]

00:19:08   the point of the episode it doesn't get [TS]

00:19:10   all twisted around it's just he goes [TS]

00:19:11   back and takes off his tie and and [TS]

00:19:13   proves that he has a time machine and [TS]

00:19:15   and so it doesn't over it doesn't throw [TS]

00:19:16   too much in the bin [TS]

00:19:17   it's like a little wild adventure where [TS]

00:19:20   she Martha proves her Worth and you know [TS]

00:19:23   the doctor saves the day and there's [TS]

00:19:24   some weird aliens and you don't need to [TS]

00:19:26   know any continuity and that's it that's [TS]

00:19:30   a good one that's a good one [TS]

00:19:31   yeah I can see that because it's also [TS]

00:19:32   more earth is a very different you know [TS]

00:19:34   Martha as a character I I I never fell [TS]

00:19:37   in love with Martha but I appreciated [TS]

00:19:39   her and I appreciate when she came back [TS]

00:19:41   as well because she's that she's a [TS]

00:19:44   professional she's very different [TS]

00:19:46   she's got a firm point your life she's a [TS]

00:19:47   doctor about to become a doctor and then [TS]

00:19:49   becomes doctor [TS]

00:19:50   and her expertise is useful and also her [TS]

00:19:53   you know she's much more of an immediate [TS]

00:19:55   equal especially the modern series and [TS]

00:19:57   so uh for people who are thinking oh [TS]

00:20:00   this is about pretty women who are [TS]

00:20:02   helpless which the show isn't about [TS]

00:20:03   anyway but it has that perception of me [TS]

00:20:05   find this young woman like Rose the bit [TS]

00:20:07   more the best lines in the whole reboot [TS]

00:20:09   is when Sarah Jane in in school reunion [TS]

00:20:11   when she says she says oh you know you [TS]

00:20:14   keep getting that younger and so today [TS]

00:20:15   or something like hammer the exact line [TS]

00:20:17   right and it's like all want to burn [TS]

00:20:19   through and she's got blue and you're [TS]

00:20:22   like and that and that's realize like [TS]

00:20:24   what the shows that the graphics are [TS]

00:20:26   about televisions changed to so so yeah [TS]

00:20:29   I think I think dr. Smith is a good [TS]

00:20:32   place to come in other are there other [TS]

00:20:34   individual episodes which you [TS]

00:20:35   cherry-pick or would you just go for [TS]

00:20:37   would you go for you know you need to [TS]

00:20:40   really watch this and take the ride and [TS]

00:20:41   watching season cuz it's really hard [TS]

00:20:43   because all these seasons i can look at [TS]

00:20:44   the list here and think oh man you know [TS]

00:20:47   yeah that that's what we'll start with [TS]

00:20:49   Christmas invasion point that Cyberman [TS]

00:20:50   to partner is really not good or I look [TS]

00:20:53   at the Martha season I think all the [TS]

00:20:55   Dalek to put those two partners in the [TS]

00:20:56   middle boy [TS]

00:20:57   oh that's rough stuff right so you can't [TS]

00:20:59   you can't unless you're making a [TS]

00:21:01   playlist for them literally you have to [TS]

00:21:03   either choose to expose them to some [TS]

00:21:05   good episodes or just chuck them in a [TS]

00:21:06   starting point and say write it out you [TS]

00:21:09   know there's gonna be good and bad it's [TS]

00:21:10   a TV show it's got good and bad but i'm [TS]

00:21:12   just wondering about the idea the [TS]

00:21:13   intelligence of of the strategy of [TS]

00:21:15   cherry-picking and saying when you watch [TS]

00:21:17   blink why don't you watch the girl in [TS]

00:21:19   the fireplace except not Erica what [TS]

00:21:21   no wonder why don't you watch I don't [TS]

00:21:23   know the father's day planet of the food [TS]

00:21:27   i would call out i know it's a weird one [TS]

00:21:29   but planet viewed it takes place [TS]

00:21:31   somewhere else they don't travel i know [TS]

00:21:32   it doesn't get the time there this you [TS]

00:21:33   know space and time thing as much but it [TS]

00:21:35   brings up a lot of ethical issues [TS]

00:21:38   there's a giant throbbing brain there's [TS]

00:21:40   you know some like a mystery there's [TS]

00:21:43   things going totally arriving this like [TS]

00:21:45   it's a lot of running around it's always [TS]

00:21:47   good but it's on it's got a great [TS]

00:21:49   surprise reveal at the end and it's even [TS]

00:21:52   gotten catherine tate Donna has to [TS]

00:21:55   confront the fact that there's all this [TS]

00:21:57   suffering and the doctor season as [TS]

00:21:59   Israel to run toward suffering to help [TS]

00:22:01   those whatever and when he gives her [TS]

00:22:03   that telepathic link so that she can [TS]

00:22:04   hear the birds singing and she's like I [TS]

00:22:06   need to go home I can't deal with this [TS]

00:22:07   and then the coming around by the end [TS]

00:22:09   she realizes how important it is and how [TS]

00:22:11   she needs to be there like as a single [TS]

00:22:13   episode I don't know if you would know [TS]

00:22:14   enough to watch it but I think it's got [TS]

00:22:16   a free-standing arc that doesn't involve [TS]

00:22:18   say all the time lords in the history [TS]

00:22:19   and the time or it's really about the [TS]

00:22:21   food and and empathy time to take a [TS]

00:22:24   brief break to tell you about ourselves [TS]

00:22:27   we don't have a sponsor this week so [TS]

00:22:29   instead i want to tell you a little bit [TS]

00:22:30   about what's going on the uncomfortable [TS]

00:22:33   first off if you haven't listened to [TS]

00:22:34   random track the new podcast hosted by [TS]

00:22:36   our very own Scott McNulty check it out [TS]

00:22:39   the incomparable dot-com / random track [TS]

00:22:43   we've got episodes up there with guests [TS]

00:22:45   such as is too jaan Steve let's John [TS]

00:22:48   molds Greg moss Dave chalo serenity [TS]

00:22:51   Caldwell Dan Morgan and me also total [TS]

00:22:55   party kill our Dungeons and Dragons [TS]

00:22:56   podcast is back for a new season we've [TS]

00:23:00   got a new cast of characters that [TS]

00:23:01   started a couple of weeks ago if you'd [TS]

00:23:03   like to listen two friends play Dungeons [TS]

00:23:05   and Dragons on the internet for your [TS]

00:23:07   amusement the incomparable calm / tpk [TS]

00:23:09   for total party kill Lex Friedman and a [TS]

00:23:12   mourner still watching movies that they [TS]

00:23:14   haven't seen before that are classics [TS]

00:23:16   yet they haven't seen them on not [TS]

00:23:17   playing you can get that at the [TS]

00:23:19   uncomfortable calm / not playing and [TS]

00:23:23   that's about it for now i only had one [TS]

00:23:25   other note which is some of you who [TS]

00:23:28   subscribed to the incomparable plus [TS]

00:23:30   after dark feed on five-by-five may have [TS]

00:23:33   discovered that you no longer have after [TS]

00:23:35   dark sore as we call them that bonus [TS]

00:23:37   tracks in your podcast feed you got [TS]

00:23:39   transferred to the wrong feet if you go [TS]

00:23:41   to the website you can resubscribe by [TS]

00:23:43   itunes there are a lot of ways to do it [TS]

00:23:45   but incomparable plus bonus track is [TS]

00:23:47   available if you want to get back on the [TS]

00:23:50   crazy extras route in addition to the [TS]

00:23:52   regular episodes and while you're there [TS]

00:23:54   at the incomparable comm check out our [TS]

00:23:56   master feed it's also on itunes will get [TS]

00:23:59   you everything we do in one feed thanks [TS]

00:24:01   for listening and thanks to myself for [TS]

00:24:03   sponsoring being comfortable before we [TS]

00:24:05   we shift gears to talk about Russell T [TS]

00:24:08   Davis more [TS]

00:24:08   specifically I wanted to ask this [TS]

00:24:10   question which is if somebody says I'm [TS]

00:24:13   I've watched the new series and I like [TS]

00:24:15   it but I'm curious about the fact that [TS]

00:24:18   it I there's still this history that i [TS]

00:24:20   know nothing about before 2005 what [TS]

00:24:24   should I you know i'm i'm intrigued [TS]

00:24:26   about going back behind that wall that [TS]

00:24:28   behind which we don't speak of what is [TS]

00:24:30   back there [TS]

00:24:31   what would you tell them where we how [TS]

00:24:34   would you point somebody at the classic [TS]

00:24:36   series if they were in you know curious [TS]

00:24:39   about about that and they know about the [TS]

00:24:41   current series [TS]

00:24:42   what do you say who i have a perfect [TS]

00:24:44   answer for this actually a a good friend [TS]

00:24:47   of chips in mind Eric stagnant who is on [TS]

00:24:49   the doctor who the writers room and [TS]

00:24:52   Doctor Who book club podcast he wrote [TS]

00:24:54   back in 2012 blog post called an open [TS]

00:24:58   letter and it sort of aimed it at new [TS]

00:25:00   doctor who fans who are going to [TS]

00:25:02   conventions for the first time and who [TS]

00:25:04   want to be able to at least understand a [TS]

00:25:07   little bit of the background of doctor [TS]

00:25:08   who and he listed a bunch just in order [TS]

00:25:12   of transmission I can remember exactly [TS]

00:25:14   how many have some something like a [TS]

00:25:16   dozen maybe slightly more episodes or [TS]

00:25:19   stories from the classic series and [TS]

00:25:22   reasons why they are sort of important [TS]

00:25:24   within the canon of Doctor Who and [TS]

00:25:25   slight descriptions of them so i would [TS]

00:25:27   point people at that and just say you [TS]

00:25:29   know read through these see which ones [TS]

00:25:31   seem to strike your fancy and maybe try [TS]

00:25:33   one of those because they really are a [TS]

00:25:35   good selection of of episodes that are I [TS]

00:25:39   don't know how important is exactly the [TS]

00:25:40   right word but they're ones that are [TS]

00:25:41   well enough known that that they they [TS]

00:25:44   stuck in that the Doctor Who [TS]

00:25:45   consciousness over the years and other [TS]

00:25:47   kinds of things that you should be able [TS]

00:25:49   to the most classic fans will have have [TS]

00:25:51   seen and remember enough to to converse [TS]

00:25:54   with you about so that's where i would [TS]

00:25:56   tell people to start [TS]

00:25:57   yeah it's it really is sort of the [TS]

00:25:59   cannon in the proper sense like you know [TS]

00:26:02   the the most important books out of the [TS]

00:26:05   out of the whole library that are the [TS]

00:26:08   touchpoints you don't have to go to the [TS]

00:26:10   power of coal but you do have to go to [TS]

00:26:13   city of death that sort of thing and [TS]

00:26:17   it's also you know my go-to episode of [TS]

00:26:20   classic doctor who is always [TS]

00:26:22   remembrance of the Daleks which is a [TS]

00:26:24   Sylvester McCoy episode the first full [TS]

00:26:27   episode where Sophie altered disease is [TS]

00:26:30   the companion i love that episode but i [TS]

00:26:33   love it kinda for the wrong reason [TS]

00:26:34   because it is one of the episodes that [TS]

00:26:37   holds up the best as far as modern [TS]

00:26:39   production styles and things like that [TS]

00:26:41   it's got the pacing and the humor and [TS]

00:26:45   things like that it feels it feels [TS]

00:26:48   modern and most of Doctor Who from 1963 [TS]

00:26:52   2 1989 is anything but modern so it's [TS]

00:26:58   it's it's hard it's almost like you're [TS]

00:27:01   you're taking these new fans who watched [TS]

00:27:03   the new show and then you're giving them [TS]

00:27:05   a history project and you can run you [TS]

00:27:09   can render the same problem with the [TS]

00:27:11   classic series as you do with the new [TS]

00:27:12   series like something like blink is kind [TS]

00:27:14   of an outlier but it's really good [TS]

00:27:16   a lot of people say with a classic [TS]

00:27:17   series start with something like the [TS]

00:27:19   city of death which is totally yeah you [TS]

00:27:21   know Douglas Adams it's got John Cleese [TS]

00:27:24   in it is that you know in a cameo and it [TS]

00:27:26   maybe it's not exactly the most [TS]

00:27:29   representative know it's it's kind of [TS]

00:27:31   brilliant but it is totally not a fit [TS]

00:27:33   for the rest of the structure that when [TS]

00:27:35   you're looking at that many years [TS]

00:27:36   there's no such as i mean there's almost [TS]

00:27:38   no such thing as something that is [TS]

00:27:39   actually representative because it [TS]

00:27:41   changed even more times in the new [TS]

00:27:42   series has already you know city of [TS]

00:27:44   death I I think about pyramids Mars is [TS]

00:27:47   another one that I think of which is I [TS]

00:27:49   all I mean nothing is representative but [TS]

00:27:51   it's it's pretty good even now it's a [TS]

00:27:53   lot of it's on film it's kind of creepy [TS]

00:27:55   but it but the other problem is the [TS]

00:27:58   format and people aren't used to [TS]

00:27:59   watching these episodes that are you [TS]

00:28:01   know or stories that are for 25 or 6 25 [TS]

00:28:04   minute long episodes and they you know [TS]

00:28:06   that they're long and the pacing is [TS]

00:28:09   weird and it does not feel like a modern [TS]

00:28:13   show cause it's very much not a modern [TS]

00:28:15   show and that can be that can be a [TS]

00:28:17   challenge for for everybody you know and [TS]

00:28:19   then a related to that is possibly an [TS]

00:28:22   even bigger challenge that both classic [TS]

00:28:24   and the modern series have is that they [TS]

00:28:26   are targeted at a family audience there [TS]

00:28:29   are a lot of people have slightly [TS]

00:28:31   advanced ages like ourselves who [TS]

00:28:34   r into doctor who either because we [TS]

00:28:36   discovered it when we were kids or we've [TS]

00:28:37   just got that sort of childlike sense of [TS]

00:28:40   wonder to borrow star trek line so [TS]

00:28:42   that's to that lifestyle my childlike [TS]

00:28:44   sweater [TS]

00:28:45   iight yeah but that was the big problem [TS]

00:28:47   when I tried to sell my brother on it [TS]

00:28:49   he's into ECM to proper SF and he [TS]

00:28:54   watched a couple of these before i hit [TS]

00:28:57   on the fact all right that's right this [TS]

00:28:58   is family television this is intended to [TS]

00:29:00   be suitable for adults and kids and [TS]

00:29:04   that's that is something really unique [TS]

00:29:07   to british television to it's not [TS]

00:29:10   something that you see a whole lot of [TS]

00:29:12   here and people don't know how to handle [TS]

00:29:13   it [TS]

00:29:13   it's a panto tradition right it's like [TS]

00:29:15   the than that that's for adults and four [TS]

00:29:17   kids but adults get into it when they [TS]

00:29:18   grow up they all go and they sad but no [TS]

00:29:20   well you know this training long and so [TS]

00:29:22   well there's just this constitute the [TS]

00:29:24   BBC is a public servant that is trying [TS]

00:29:26   to reach all these different audiences [TS]

00:29:27   including something that the concept of [TS]

00:29:29   tea time television which you know in [TS]

00:29:31   American TV the the junk that littered [TS]

00:29:34   four o'clock five o'clock television was [TS]

00:29:37   you know is syndicated the old sitcoms [TS]

00:29:39   and old reruns of Star Trek and things [TS]

00:29:41   like that it was a it was not a place [TS]

00:29:43   where you crafted programming it was [TS]

00:29:45   just kind of the junk that went on [TS]

00:29:47   before you got to the real stuff in [TS]

00:29:48   primetime and and the BBC had this [TS]

00:29:50   commitment historically to tea time [TS]

00:29:53   programming for family and that's a very [TS]

00:29:55   different thing than america i want to [TS]

00:29:57   mention before we move on [TS]

00:29:58   Graham Burke and Robert Smith's book [TS]

00:30:02   whose 50 which erica recommended i think [TS]

00:30:05   maybe even back on that episode november [TS]

00:30:06   and i have read it and it is excellent [TS]

00:30:08   the 50 Doctor Who stories your watch [TS]

00:30:10   before you die [TS]

00:30:11   not a bad thing if you're really [TS]

00:30:12   interested in exploring because it has [TS]

00:30:15   some new series episodes and lots of old [TS]

00:30:16   series episodes and they're not all the [TS]

00:30:19   essays are great and it is also funny [TS]

00:30:21   because it is they're not good they're [TS]

00:30:23   just once you should see and that's [TS]

00:30:25   interesting an interesting take two and [TS]

00:30:27   they frequently disagree [TS]

00:30:29   oh yeah the merits of those episodes and [TS]

00:30:30   that's really important for a fan [TS]

00:30:33   exploring the show to see is that no [TS]

00:30:36   there is no one episode that everybody [TS]

00:30:39   hates or love it's true [TS]

00:30:41   with the possible exception of the twin [TS]

00:30:42   dilemma i like the 20mm up my mom likes [TS]

00:30:45   the twin dilemma so there you go [TS]

00:30:47   what what [TS]

00:30:47   related that Cindy you know i think it's [TS]

00:30:50   around my family obviously and and most [TS]

00:30:52   people most right-thinking people like [TS]

00:30:54   the girl in the fireplace but you know [TS]

00:30:55   we all have our some people like the end [TS]

00:30:58   of time acts like a time [TS]

00:31:01   yeah Glenn I love ya writers so let's [TS]

00:31:05   let's let's talk a little bit we know [TS]

00:31:07   with that with our remaining you know [TS]

00:31:08   half hour-ish about about the russell t [TS]

00:31:12   davies Sarah yeah laughs yeah so [TS]

00:31:14   therefore the next the next five hours i [TS]

00:31:16   telephone begins now let's go to the [TS]

00:31:18   tote board [TS]

00:31:19   I talking talking about the the russell [TS]

00:31:23   t davies here and we should start with [TS]

00:31:24   the first season with christopher [TS]

00:31:26   eccleston it's not exactly John [TS]

00:31:28   Syracuse's style opening statement but [TS]

00:31:29   Glenn said earlier that he felt like the [TS]

00:31:32   Moffett area was a little bit more [TS]

00:31:33   uneven as far as the writing goes I [TS]

00:31:35   think it's worth noting before we start [TS]

00:31:37   talking about the rtd era that I from [TS]

00:31:40   from what we can tell Artie really had a [TS]

00:31:42   very heavy hand in the scripting of [TS]

00:31:44   pretty much every single episode of step [TS]

00:31:47   with the Moffett episodes i guess for [TS]

00:31:48   Mother's written into his contract that [TS]

00:31:49   he didn't get rewritten so much so i [TS]

00:31:52   think i think you really do sort of see [TS]

00:31:54   the auteur touch to this entire run of [TS]

00:31:56   our td's because he was I mean fan [TS]

00:32:00   wisdom has it that there are certain [TS]

00:32:01   scripts here and there that are it's not [TS]

00:32:04   exactly just a page-one rewrite it sits [TS]

00:32:06   like a word one rewrite that some of the [TS]

00:32:08   writers head and pretty much nothing to [TS]

00:32:10   do with the final product so are the [TS]

00:32:12   writer's tail and I think he outright [TS]

00:32:14   admits you know I'm this happened with [TS]

00:32:16   with Torchwood the children of earth [TS]

00:32:20   that was essentially rewritten most of [TS]

00:32:22   it sounds like from the scripts that [TS]

00:32:24   came in I mean that wasn't a doctor who [TS]

00:32:26   and then those later David Tennant [TS]

00:32:27   specials that have a co-writer bylines [TS]

00:32:29   it's like a sort of admitting that I'm [TS]

00:32:31   gonna have a writer do the initial work [TS]

00:32:33   and then I'm going to come in [TS]

00:32:34   I mean he was they were defining what I [TS]

00:32:36   said they were figuring out how to make [TS]

00:32:37   the show I think one of the things was [TS]

00:32:38   also figuring out a very American [TS]

00:32:40   concept for television which is the [TS]

00:32:42   showrunner which didn't really exist on [TS]

00:32:44   these BBC shows it was really much like [TS]

00:32:46   the whole season was written by one [TS]

00:32:47   person or people would come and they [TS]

00:32:49   would write episodes but with russell [TS]

00:32:50   davis heat the way he defined it was i'm [TS]

00:32:53   going to get these writers to write the [TS]

00:32:55   scripts but then the the final pass to [TS]

00:32:58   make it all consistent is going to be me [TS]

00:33:00   and he did by all accounts with it with [TS]

00:33:03   everybody except except Steven Moffat [TS]

00:33:05   and I think you know that was that was [TS]

00:33:07   it hehe this was his job he fell to make [TS]

00:33:10   the show consistent and exactly what he [TS]

00:33:12   wanted to be was to do that you know it [TS]

00:33:14   was always going to be his last stamp on [TS]

00:33:18   it before it just saw you know shooting [TS]

00:33:21   there's a lot of joss whedon's Buffy DNA [TS]

00:33:24   and his doctor who look at Rose I mean I [TS]

00:33:27   Rose is is an uneven episode their [TS]

00:33:29   moments where I feel like I'm watching [TS]

00:33:30   an episode of Power Rangers where the [TS]

00:33:32   music is bizarre and there's the thing [TS]

00:33:34   with the hand that's floating in the air [TS]

00:33:36   that they're wrestling with and the [TS]

00:33:38   trash bin and the plastic Mickey and it [TS]

00:33:40   should have Rose doesn't notice okay um [TS]

00:33:43   unless it's eastenders also in the [TS]

00:33:44   middle there too they should have [TS]

00:33:45   brought another shows [TS]

00:33:47   yes so it's it's got problems but at the [TS]

00:33:50   same time it's so clear the UH of the [TS]

00:33:53   intentions that he's got a buffy DNA and [TS]

00:33:56   as buffy is my favorite show of all time [TS]

00:33:58   I you know I can feel it and it's one of [TS]

00:33:59   Russell takes his favorite shows that [TS]

00:34:01   like roses got that her Buffy moment at [TS]

00:34:03   the end where she where she wrote swings [TS]

00:34:05   on the rope and kicks the thought on [TS]

00:34:07   into the into the pit and and you know [TS]

00:34:10   you did that it's about family and that [TS]

00:34:12   we meet roses mother and her boyfriend [TS]

00:34:14   and that it's a show about what happens [TS]

00:34:18   if you're if you're the companion and [TS]

00:34:19   you meet the doctor and you go away with [TS]

00:34:21   him and what what are all the [TS]

00:34:22   ramifications of that just so system [TS]

00:34:25   modern take on it that's their from [TS]

00:34:27   episode one even though there are lots [TS]

00:34:31   of issues where they didn't have the [TS]

00:34:33   tone right and i think they didn't know [TS]

00:34:34   how to do the effects and they didn't [TS]

00:34:36   know how to shoot in way late and over [TS]

00:34:38   budget and all these problems but i do [TS]

00:34:40   think that the core Russell Davis knew [TS]

00:34:42   what he wanted to get to it just took [TS]

00:34:45   some time to figure out figure out how [TS]

00:34:47   to get there [TS]

00:34:48   well I I'd like to speak and offensive [TS]

00:34:50   or defensive i guess we're not defending [TS]

00:34:52   defend the indefensible syriza but I [TS]

00:34:55   think I i think it's a think it's a [TS]

00:34:57   great run [TS]

00:34:58   however uneven it is and how much [TS]

00:34:59   they're getting their feet settled [TS]

00:35:01   there's it's got so many brilliant [TS]

00:35:03   moments across this so even episodes [TS]

00:35:05   that don't work I think like the Dalek [TS]

00:35:08   episode is very all the other bringing [TS]

00:35:10   them back with this part of that [TS]

00:35:12   I think there's so many aspects in this [TS]

00:35:14   series in which you see the seeds of [TS]

00:35:15   what he obviously was thinking about [TS]

00:35:16   having read the writers tail he did not [TS]

00:35:18   have planned out like there's a lot of [TS]

00:35:20   turning in his head he did not have arcs [TS]

00:35:23   written on balls that no one ever saw [TS]

00:35:25   there's a lot of stuff that was going on [TS]

00:35:26   that man's very very very busy and [TS]

00:35:28   overworked underslept over cigarette in [TS]

00:35:30   mind but like the Ark of bad wolf and [TS]

00:35:34   season one I think is wonderful i [TS]

00:35:36   actually regularly watch just the end of [TS]

00:35:39   the parts of parting of the ways for [TS]

00:35:41   that bit in the fact that he created [TS]

00:35:43   such a strong resonance of that are you [TS]

00:35:44   go back and you watch like oh he built [TS]

00:35:46   the set but that's the joss whedon [TS]

00:35:48   effect two hehe that's the joss whedon [TS]

00:35:50   idea of building it in and having it [TS]

00:35:52   come to an end and not end on a [TS]

00:35:54   cliffhanger was totally the model the [TS]

00:35:56   first season of buffy is in in some ways [TS]

00:35:58   I think the model for the first season [TS]

00:35:59   of the of the new series yet because the [TS]

00:36:02   whole thing right the end of end of it [TS]

00:36:03   was tough season one the whole thing [TS]

00:36:05   collapses may have to find a new sort of [TS]

00:36:07   new villain and there's echoes later [TS]

00:36:09   seasons right and so I think they I [TS]

00:36:11   think he built a terrific are can I [TS]

00:36:12   think he built the template for the [TS]

00:36:14   seasons that followed I don't think if i [TS]

00:36:16   remember right they didn't know that [TS]

00:36:17   Ecclestone was gonna leave he decided to [TS]

00:36:18   leave once it came out who's going to so [TS]

00:36:21   he was was he originally committed they [TS]

00:36:22   thought that happen for more than the [TS]

00:36:23   first seems like maybe that's too inside [TS]

00:36:26   baseball I don't know [TS]

00:36:27   yeah i think it's i think at some point [TS]

00:36:29   during the filming knew he was leaving [TS]

00:36:31   for days it was four days after the [TS]

00:36:34   first episode started that it was [TS]

00:36:36   announced to the public [TS]

00:36:37   oh yeah he was Pippin was pissed because [TS]

00:36:39   I know you're right yeah they're angry [TS]

00:36:41   but but I think I mean I just think [TS]

00:36:42   there's all the elements in there is [TS]

00:36:44   like the fact that you start you find [TS]

00:36:45   out he's the last of the Time Lords [TS]

00:36:47   you're like okay wow this is new this is [TS]

00:36:50   different it's on what we don't have the [TS]

00:36:51   trials of the time lords and taylor [TS]

00:36:53   showing off and disappearing the whole [TS]

00:36:55   thing the end of the world is a totally [TS]

00:36:57   different tone and he puts his companion [TS]

00:36:59   immediately in danger he feels [TS]

00:37:00   responsible for any screws up getting [TS]

00:37:02   her back at the right moment to other [TS]

00:37:05   ways the end of the world as it isn't [TS]

00:37:07   that the epicenter of an event of the [TS]

00:37:08   world he brings her back and she's been [TS]

00:37:10   gone for a year mother's freaked out at [TS]

00:37:11   the beginning of the of the farting [TS]

00:37:13   alien two-parter actual one so that's [TS]

00:37:15   the aliens of london right so but i just [TS]

00:37:18   thought [TS]

00:37:19   the idea of bringing historical [TS]

00:37:20   characters and which happened a lot [TS]

00:37:22   after that we get in first with the with [TS]

00:37:24   Charles Dickens is the select the [TS]

00:37:26   celebrity historical as they like right [TS]

00:37:29   you know we can we get a as Shakespeare [TS]

00:37:30   later but in like how are we going to [TS]

00:37:33   the Daleks battle Daleks with the most [TS]

00:37:34   popular villain in the history of the [TS]

00:37:36   series and they're gone ostensibly [TS]

00:37:38   forever and they come back you get the [TS]

00:37:40   sense an unquiet dead that seeds of the [TS]

00:37:42   higher species the higher races were the [TS]

00:37:45   ones who suffered in the time lower and [TS]

00:37:47   we've been dispossessed and then that [TS]

00:37:48   echo mean that comes in rows their [TS]

00:37:50   echoes in unquiet dead it comes back [TS]

00:37:52   again and again the father's day where [TS]

00:37:54   you see that at the time was not there [TS]

00:37:56   things are falling apart so I feel like [TS]

00:37:59   they did a great job in building the [TS]

00:38:01   world that paid off in subsequent [TS]

00:38:03   seasons and there's anything again like [TS]

00:38:04   there's that moment in the doctor dances [TS]

00:38:06   where he says everybody lives for once [TS]

00:38:08   everybody lives you're like oh this is a [TS]

00:38:10   great moment for getting dr. everybody [TS]

00:38:12   died like there's something i watch it [TS]

00:38:14   like when I watch the when it was first [TS]

00:38:16   aired and listening to him say that I'm [TS]

00:38:18   like oh my god you're right and click [TS]

00:38:19   practically in tears like an episode in [TS]

00:38:22   which the doctor actions able finally to [TS]

00:38:25   cure everybody to heal everybody that's [TS]

00:38:26   the counterpoint to the classic series [TS]

00:38:28   episode caves of Androzani where [TS]

00:38:29   everybody except Perry dies everybody [TS]

00:38:32   including the doctor even the doctor [TS]

00:38:33   dies in an episode or horrifying rock [TS]

00:38:35   where everybody with the doctor and [TS]

00:38:37   Leela died [TS]

00:38:37   oh my god yeah exactly let me jump onto [TS]

00:38:40   what Clinton just said end of the world [TS]

00:38:44   ends with the sound of a baby's cry when [TS]

00:38:47   they win when the doctor and takes rows [TS]

00:38:53   back and you don't see any of the people [TS]

00:38:56   in the landscape know it for all your [TS]

00:39:00   almost led to believe that they are [TS]

00:39:02   going back to the dead world and then [TS]

00:39:05   off-camera you hear a baby's cry and [TS]

00:39:08   then you see the the hustle and bustle [TS]

00:39:11   of 21st century life when I heard that [TS]

00:39:14   cry [TS]

00:39:15   this is the second episode of the new [TS]

00:39:17   series i have been watching doctor who [TS]

00:39:20   often on as a kid and I've ignored it [TS]

00:39:23   during the wilderness years and I don't [TS]

00:39:25   know if I'm really going to like this [TS]

00:39:26   new show [TS]

00:39:27   and I was emotionally moved by dr who [TS]

00:39:30   and as much as I love Doctor Who when I [TS]

00:39:33   was a teenager I was never emotionally [TS]

00:39:35   moved by it it was it was a fun sci-fi [TS]

00:39:39   story and that was completely unexpected [TS]

00:39:42   it was completely Russell T Davis's [TS]

00:39:46   approach to the show that he was going [TS]

00:39:48   to make you care about these characters [TS]

00:39:50   rather than using them as set-pieces to [TS]

00:39:53   advance the plot along between that and [TS]

00:39:56   everybody lives in the doctor dances [TS]

00:39:58   that was when I just completely bought [TS]

00:40:02   into what was going on [TS]

00:40:03   fan for life started a podcast i would [TS]

00:40:06   say that scene maybe that last scene of [TS]

00:40:09   the end of the world [TS]

00:40:11   maybe my favorite single scene in the [TS]

00:40:12   new series and it's funny because that's [TS]

00:40:15   an episode that is famously the most [TS]

00:40:17   expensive episode that they ever did [TS]

00:40:19   because it's got huge amounts of CGI [TS]

00:40:21   they shot up early and i think i think [TS]

00:40:23   it came in like two days before they [TS]

00:40:25   erred because unless it was just an [TS]

00:40:28   insane amount of of work and get that [TS]

00:40:30   last scene is completely just shot on a [TS]

00:40:34   street in in Wales presumably doubling [TS]

00:40:38   for London and it's just a street and [TS]

00:40:40   it's just the doctor and rose and she's [TS]

00:40:42   in her hoodie and he tells her that all [TS]

00:40:45   his people are dead and she's just seen [TS]

00:40:48   the earth be destroyed and she says do [TS]

00:40:53   you smell chips [TS]

00:40:54   I'm and it's just bringing it back to [TS]

00:40:56   you but right now it right now we're [TS]

00:40:59   alive and all of us you and me and all [TS]

00:41:01   of humanity and it all comes to an end [TS]

00:41:03   but right now let's live and it is it [TS]

00:41:06   you're right ship it is also that moment [TS]

00:41:08   of spike what I didn't know the show [TS]

00:41:10   could do this [TS]

00:41:11   yeah and here i am kind of on once again [TS]

00:41:14   on the other side of the coin but I was [TS]

00:41:17   I'm you know been watching Doctor Who [TS]

00:41:19   since I was five and I didn't ignore the [TS]

00:41:21   show during the wilderness years I i [TS]

00:41:22   rewatched all of the ones that i had [TS]

00:41:25   access to and showed it to other people [TS]

00:41:27   and got them on the bandwagon and so it [TS]

00:41:29   was a big deal for me and when the show [TS]

00:41:31   came back I was I was very much the sort [TS]

00:41:33   of crusty old school girl in with it was [TS]

00:41:36   not [TS]

00:41:37   didn't I didn't want to open my heart to [TS]

00:41:39   to a new show and I mean I i was excited [TS]

00:41:42   that it was coming back but I was a [TS]

00:41:43   little worried and then when I saw it it [TS]

00:41:46   was very clear from the beginning that [TS]

00:41:48   this is a different show one of the [TS]

00:41:50   biggest differences being the show [TS]

00:41:51   clearly is sort of told at the beginning [TS]

00:41:53   from the point of view of the companion [TS]

00:41:55   this is a show about Rose every bit as [TS]

00:41:57   much as it is about the doctor if not [TS]

00:41:58   more and i did not like that i've come [TS]

00:42:02   to terms with it by now but at the time [TS]

00:42:03   that was something that was really [TS]

00:42:05   really difficult for me to switch my way [TS]

00:42:08   of thinking about this showcase for me [TS]

00:42:10   was really always about the doctor and [TS]

00:42:11   the show did in the classic series it [TS]

00:42:13   did make me feel things on a regular [TS]

00:42:15   basis i was i was in passionate about [TS]

00:42:18   this show so I know I cried when Adric [TS]

00:42:21   died and import and multiple other times [TS]

00:42:24   throughout the course of the show and I [TS]

00:42:26   I was used to seeing it from that [TS]

00:42:29   direction and crying about those things [TS]

00:42:31   and then we came along and in here where [TS]

00:42:33   we're seeing a companion and there's [TS]

00:42:35   this flirtiness a little bit going on [TS]

00:42:37   and it's cheeky and I just didn't know [TS]

00:42:40   how to feel about it [TS]

00:42:41   it is interesting that Glenn mentioned [TS]

00:42:43   Dalek because I think for me that was [TS]

00:42:45   the time that I was able to finally jump [TS]

00:42:48   on board with that story because finally [TS]

00:42:50   you're bringing back something from the [TS]

00:42:52   past you've got this Dalek which [TS]

00:42:54   Eccleston's performance and that is just [TS]

00:42:56   out of this world [TS]

00:42:57   it's so clear that there's this fraught [TS]

00:43:01   background between him and this creature [TS]

00:43:03   and it just and and I moment maybe I'm a [TS]

00:43:06   little biased because Rob Sherman is who [TS]

00:43:08   wrote it is one of my favorite people [TS]

00:43:09   adore him at every convention i see and [TS]

00:43:12   he gives really good hugs [TS]

00:43:13   so every rush i'm not asking for a hug [TS]

00:43:15   because he's excellent at it and the [TS]

00:43:17   Dalek episode not only not only does it [TS]

00:43:20   make that connection to the classic [TS]

00:43:22   series from seen one where he sees a [TS]

00:43:24   classic series Cyberman head in a glass [TS]

00:43:28   case and says I'm getting old which I [TS]

00:43:30   thought was wonderful but it also has [TS]

00:43:33   the effect of this is the that's the [TS]

00:43:37   episode where we see how how broken he [TS]

00:43:40   is because of the time war [TS]

00:43:42   this is where it comes out that he is [TS]

00:43:44   really messed up and you know I saw it [TS]

00:43:48   happen i made it happen and [TS]

00:43:50   he's gonna kill the Dalek and over here [TS]

00:43:51   and makes a gun and you're like the [TS]

00:43:53   doctor made a gun whole ok [TS]

00:43:57   no I was like yes the doctor made a gun [TS]

00:43:59   he's done that so many times before [TS]

00:44:01   yeah but yeah but still I don't know I [TS]

00:44:03   think it's still a moment it's like [TS]

00:44:04   Layton he makes weapons in different [TS]

00:44:06   ways but this was a gun gun this is a [TS]

00:44:08   gun gun gun it was like to blow up a [TS]

00:44:11   creature that larose had learned was not [TS]

00:44:13   was not the monster that he was assuming [TS]

00:44:17   it was which is I think the interesting [TS]

00:44:18   thing there [TS]

00:44:19   I think of the new series in the new [TS]

00:44:21   series they very much played up the you [TS]

00:44:22   know I don't like guns I don't like [TS]

00:44:24   people with guns sort of sort of thing [TS]

00:44:26   which I mean they were never hinted that [TS]

00:44:28   in the past there were moments and but [TS]

00:44:30   there's there's a really funny supermix [TS]

00:44:32   I'm youtube of of all of the times that [TS]

00:44:34   you see the doctor holding weapons and [TS]

00:44:36   sometimes they are gun so it's pretty [TS]

00:44:38   funny i would argue in fact that the new [TS]

00:44:40   series has been exactly as consistent as [TS]

00:44:41   the classic series in him talking about [TS]

00:44:43   how how he's a pacifist and how guns are [TS]

00:44:46   terrible and all that while also with [TS]

00:44:47   blowing things up if he needs to that's [TS]

00:44:49   chest [TS]

00:44:49   dr. that's what the Dalek episode when [TS]

00:44:52   Debra Davros accused them says you've [TS]

00:44:54   turned all these you're not you're the [TS]

00:44:55   great one but you turned all your [TS]

00:44:57   friends and weapons the doctors like [TS]

00:44:58   burnt huh I guess you got me there [TS]

00:45:00   because i have they're all got they got [TS]

00:45:03   the osterhagen key and yeah okay maybe [TS]

00:45:06   so [TS]

00:45:06   so this season also brings us the empty [TS]

00:45:08   child in the doctor dances which is a [TS]

00:45:09   fantastic to partner which I like a lot [TS]

00:45:11   which is steven moffat its first piece [TS]

00:45:14   on the new series father's day Paul [TS]

00:45:16   Cornell story which is i just watched [TS]

00:45:18   these back not too long ago with my [TS]

00:45:19   family and and I father's day always [TS]

00:45:22   takes me by surprise because it's it's [TS]

00:45:25   it it it's got some silly strange things [TS]

00:45:28   in it but it is you know the emotional [TS]

00:45:30   core is what's important [TS]

00:45:32   amazing her father comes back again that [TS]

00:45:33   actor was terrific he did a great job [TS]

00:45:35   when he comes back and it's a real [TS]

00:45:37   family thing about Jackie's a pain the [TS]

00:45:39   mother but that you know it's real [TS]

00:45:41   family stuff and then he comes back [TS]

00:45:42   again and again because he's really [TS]

00:45:44   fills its really strong role in the [TS]

00:45:47   series until until roses gone anything [TS]

00:45:50   more we should say about the Christopher [TS]

00:45:52   Eccleston's season before we move on I [TS]

00:45:54   would also like to give our TV some more [TS]

00:45:57   points for the arc that Glenn was [TS]

00:45:59   talking about you guys mentioned that [TS]

00:46:01   the bad wolf park [TS]

00:46:02   I [TS]

00:46:02   I'm a sucker for an arc season 16 of [TS]

00:46:05   Doctor Who the key to time season is my [TS]

00:46:07   all-time favorite and that is that's my [TS]

00:46:10   favorite kind of arc where you get look [TS]

00:46:13   you know there's a tiny little bit in [TS]

00:46:14   each episode but each episode is still [TS]

00:46:16   its own standalone monster-of-the-week [TS]

00:46:18   kind of thing so it's not our dependent [TS]

00:46:21   i mean i don't wanna compare to moffitt [TS]

00:46:23   too much but you know you get more of an [TS]

00:46:25   arcing like season five and you know [TS]

00:46:27   that's that's all well and good but but [TS]

00:46:29   the the stuff that the best for me are [TS]

00:46:31   the ones where you can have your own [TS]

00:46:33   standalone episodes and then get little [TS]

00:46:34   bits they're sort of hints or teased in [TS]

00:46:36   so I I really did like the way the bad [TS]

00:46:39   wolf park played out even if I'm you [TS]

00:46:41   know wasn't the biggest rose fan seeing [TS]

00:46:43   you know all of revolve around her [TS]

00:46:45   well he still did it well i'm reminded [TS]

00:46:47   of that when we just watched my family [TS]

00:46:50   and I were we're making our way forward [TS]

00:46:51   and we just watched the silurian [TS]

00:46:54   two-parter from the first season of matt [TS]

00:46:56   smith and it a short version is much [TS]

00:46:59   better than I remember it so i'll give [TS]

00:47:00   it that but literally at the very end in [TS]

00:47:02   the last five minutes the the if you can [TS]

00:47:05   see the script paused for two minutes of [TS]

00:47:09   Arc related material and then [TS]

00:47:11   immediately press play again as if those [TS]

00:47:14   two minutes didn't happen because it was [TS]

00:47:17   obviously inserted into the script to [TS]

00:47:20   further the ark and it reminded me that [TS]

00:47:23   you know Russell Davis with his light [TS]

00:47:25   touch on these scripts it's not until [TS]

00:47:27   boomtown that anybody comments on the [TS]

00:47:29   fact that they keep seeing bad wolf [TS]

00:47:31   so it's not until the penultimate [TS]

00:47:32   episode up until that point as a viewer [TS]

00:47:34   you're like bad wolf we keep seeing that [TS]

00:47:36   he and you start being like a hoe I [TS]

00:47:38   spotted this week's bad wolf but it's [TS]

00:47:41   not taking over the show until until he [TS]

00:47:45   finally sees the Blythe druke project [TS]

00:47:48   and goes wait a second now and peppering [TS]

00:47:51   we should point out that this is the [TS]

00:47:53   where we get not just captain jakarta [TS]

00:47:55   happiness but I'm we get they must be [TS]

00:47:57   Giants only Captain Jack Harkness [TS]

00:47:58   Captain Jack Harkness you got it I got [TS]

00:48:00   his name right [TS]

00:48:01   I camry it so captain jack arises and we [TS]

00:48:04   start to get the themes like the whole [TS]

00:48:05   thing about well you know the future [TS]

00:48:06   flexible you know I want to kiss him on [TS]

00:48:09   kiss her and I think there's it's great [TS]

00:48:11   because in that place through the rest [TS]

00:48:13   of the season is that there is no [TS]

00:48:14   or so gender & orientation availability [TS]

00:48:18   in the show in the West before in sand [TS]

00:48:19   you know I don't think it was perfect [TS]

00:48:21   but that it's not new to science fiction [TS]

00:48:23   either but it's needed to Doctor Who and [TS]

00:48:26   and it brought it to a broad audience in [TS]

00:48:27   the UK and then later to a broader [TS]

00:48:30   audience in the u.s. normalizing [TS]

00:48:32   something that is normal for ppl true as [TS]

00:48:34   i have not I have not read a raiders [TS]

00:48:36   tail I just know a lot of its I've heard [TS]

00:48:38   interviews about it heard people talk [TS]

00:48:40   about it how much of that you know [TS]

00:48:42   Captain Jack comes to us in the empty [TS]

00:48:45   child in the doctor dances which those [TS]

00:48:47   are actually Moffat episodes and as [TS]

00:48:49   we've said Moffat episodes did not get [TS]

00:48:51   heavily rewritten by rtd so does anybody [TS]

00:48:53   know how much rtd had to do with the [TS]

00:48:56   creation of that character I mean I'm [TS]

00:48:57   certain he had quite a bit to do with it [TS]

00:49:00   and my understanding is that he gave [TS]

00:49:02   Moffat the broad pretty detailed brief [TS]

00:49:04   and that bitch Captain Jack was built [TS]

00:49:07   into the back half of the season right [TS]

00:49:10   from the beginning so I don't think [TS]

00:49:13   although Moffat wrote the episodes that [TS]

00:49:15   introduced him i don't think that you [TS]

00:49:18   could say that Moffat created the [TS]

00:49:20   character which is on which is unusual [TS]

00:49:22   for before british television because [TS]

00:49:25   frequently you know the first the first [TS]

00:49:28   time the character appears is the the [TS]

00:49:30   writer of the episode was responsible [TS]

00:49:32   and considered the Creator it's funny as [TS]

00:49:34   we move on to to to the david tennant [TS]

00:49:36   era wait I what I notice is you know [TS]

00:49:38   they liked it they do like to give the [TS]

00:49:40   creator's credit when when when a [TS]

00:49:44   monster recursive let's say and one of [TS]

00:49:46   the things that amuses me is that when [TS]

00:49:48   the you would appear in them in the [TS]

00:49:50   Steven Moffat era there's a credit that [TS]

00:49:52   says food created by Russell to davis [TS]

00:49:54   which really amuses me because the [TS]

00:49:56   episodes the you were introduced in not [TS]

00:49:57   credited to Russell T Davis but it is [TS]

00:50:00   like it's just at acid admittance that [TS]

00:50:02   he created that he created them he said [TS]

00:50:05   we'll call it the food i wanted to be [TS]

00:50:06   kind of octopus face and I rewrote the [TS]

00:50:12   script anyway writing a possible plan so [TS]

00:50:14   it's just it's funny it's like this this [TS]

00:50:17   announcement [TS]

00:50:17   nothing nothing special about it except [TS]

00:50:19   that it totally means it was him even [TS]

00:50:23   though technically matt jones created [TS]

00:50:25   the food right but he didn't he didn't [TS]

00:50:27   with President Davis that's who did it [TS]

00:50:30   that's why would David Tennant let's [TS]

00:50:32   talk about good old girl david ensor [TS]

00:50:33   crystal actor christopher eccleston does [TS]

00:50:36   a year does a good job I sounds like [TS]

00:50:40   it's a combination of him you know not [TS]

00:50:42   necessarily want to commit to any job [TS]

00:50:44   for a very long period of time and it [TS]

00:50:45   sounds like the way that that first [TS]

00:50:47   season was produced was really trying on [TS]

00:50:50   everybody and that he decided at some [TS]

00:50:52   point that he didn't want to be a part [TS]

00:50:54   of it anymore and I don't know if we'll [TS]

00:50:55   ever know more detailed and then about [TS]

00:50:57   that but but [TS]

00:50:59   so he leaves and they should they shoot [TS]

00:51:01   very late they shoot a scene with david [TS]

00:51:04   tennant just regenerate post [TS]

00:51:06   regeneration that will get them in the [TS]

00:51:08   inn that the parting of the ways that [TS]

00:51:10   will get them through to the to the [TS]

00:51:12   Christmas special and so here the show [TS]

00:51:13   has been a success they immediately have [TS]

00:51:15   to change the leading man welcome to [TS]

00:51:17   Doctor Who everybody this is what [TS]

00:51:18   happens and we get David David Tennant [TS]

00:51:22   who who stays for three full series and [TS]

00:51:26   three different companions and is in [TS]

00:51:30   many people's minds their you know their [TS]

00:51:33   doctor and a level that I i think when [TS]

00:51:37   the new series came back nobody kind of [TS]

00:51:38   anticipated that this sort of thing [TS]

00:51:40   would happen where he he he really ruled [TS]

00:51:43   it for a long time and stuck in the [TS]

00:51:45   minds of a lot of a lot of fans [TS]

00:51:46   yeah and remarkably enough eat up until [TS]

00:51:49   very very recently he was still [TS]

00:51:52   considered in several fan polls and [TS]

00:51:55   general public polls in Britain he was [TS]

00:51:57   considered the most popular dr. even [TS]

00:52:00   though he'd been gone for three years [TS]

00:52:02   and matt smith was absolutely killing it [TS]

00:52:04   as a perfect as a performer but there is [TS]

00:52:08   something about the the skinny handsome [TS]

00:52:12   geek chic guy that struck court it was [TS]

00:52:15   there something like that will be the [TS]

00:52:17   first to admit it's my love for David [TS]

00:52:19   Tennant's run that he did not have a [TS]

00:52:21   mini facial expressions and he pulled [TS]

00:52:24   out a number for that the teeth bared [TS]

00:52:26   slightly angry while you know slightly [TS]

00:52:29   wide eyed thing you saw a lot of it but [TS]

00:52:31   um but it's interesting [TS]

00:52:32   whatever this thing years ago there was [TS]

00:52:34   this comparison about Tom Hanks and his [TS]

00:52:38   co-star in the a [TS]

00:52:40   the the meg ryan helmet meg Ryan see my [TS]

00:52:42   brain my brain wears this two [TS]

00:52:44   consecutive episodes that have made [TS]

00:52:45   reference to sleepless in seattle / [TS]

00:52:47   you've got mail to 22 consecutive [TS]

00:52:49   episodes telling me something [TS]

00:52:52   The New Yorker wrote this piece about [TS]

00:52:53   them where it was sort of pre was like [TS]

00:52:55   times like Tom Hanks made five terrible [TS]

00:52:58   movies and in five ones that all gross [TS]

00:53:00   bazillion dollars and but it was [TS]

00:53:02   comparing the fact that you can look at [TS]

00:53:03   him and his face barely does anything [TS]

00:53:04   and you know what's going on inside and [TS]

00:53:06   meg Ryan had all this business was [TS]

00:53:08   describing the amount of business her [TS]

00:53:09   face did your hand like the the business [TS]

00:53:12   that she did to convey emotion in like [TS]

00:53:14   similar scenes or cut back and forth and [TS]

00:53:16   I feel like I gave a tent does not have [TS]

00:53:18   a ton of facial expressions but that's [TS]

00:53:20   an incredible amount of capital that [TS]

00:53:23   Emma Thompson same thing at the Thompson [TS]

00:53:24   does not have many facial expressions [TS]

00:53:26   that she's one of my favorite actresses [TS]

00:53:27   but she does at times seem to have an [TS]

00:53:29   entirely mobile face yet convey this [TS]

00:53:31   entire range of sophistication something [TS]

00:53:33   out a glance with her face not moving [TS]

00:53:36   about a scene so David Tennant awkward [TS]

00:53:38   RQ some people get hung up on that like [TS]

00:53:40   he has three expressions like okay but [TS]

00:53:42   he has no vocal town and body and [TS]

00:53:44   whatever in the UK so I want to dangle [TS]

00:53:47   some red meat in front of America [TS]

00:53:48   because obviously because position when [TS]

00:53:52   you talk when you think about david [TS]

00:53:53   tennant one word immediately comes to [TS]

00:53:56   mind and I don't think it's a word that [TS]

00:53:58   a lot of classic oriented doctor who [TS]

00:54:01   fans like to affiliate with their doctor [TS]

00:54:04   and that is cool [TS]

00:54:06   david tennant is cool in a way that no [TS]

00:54:12   doctor I think had really been cool [TS]

00:54:14   which is to say i'm up just cool that's [TS]

00:54:21   the only word I can come up with [TS]

00:54:23   I don't think anybody was cool until job [TS]

00:54:25   but jon pertwee david tennant are like [TS]

00:54:28   the too-cool doctors i can think of the [TS]

00:54:31   I always thought I was that peter [TS]

00:54:33   davison was cool so maybe that's just me [TS]

00:54:35   being weird but I i just saw a kind of a [TS]

00:54:37   direct line connecting those two he's [TS]

00:54:40   kissed very quick he's quirky he's cool [TS]

00:54:42   a in a the guy wearing the wrong sort of [TS]

00:54:44   clothes and not noticing cool with a [TS]

00:54:47   geek the geek chic thing works really [TS]

00:54:48   well on David Tennant and it helps the [TS]

00:54:50   david tennant you know and they did [TS]

00:54:53   again in time a good choices made by the [TS]

00:54:55   production team I mean the suit with the [TS]

00:54:58   with the trainers so that this you know [TS]

00:55:03   and good casting dividend also david [TS]

00:55:05   tennant being a very serious doctor who [TS]

00:55:07   fan cast as the doctor get kind of gets [TS]

00:55:10   what the part is I felt like there was [TS]

00:55:11   also that he was you know he was he tall [TS]

00:55:14   it always felt kind of iconic to me he [TS]

00:55:16   always felt like this is going to be the [TS]

00:55:18   Tom Baker of of the new series where [TS]

00:55:21   we're going to go back and they're going [TS]

00:55:22   to be people who love all the doctors [TS]

00:55:23   but there were going to go back and be [TS]

00:55:24   like remember David Tennant that suit [TS]

00:55:26   like its it felt like like a an iconic [TS]

00:55:30   performance from a good actor with with [TS]

00:55:33   with good scripts and it was with prefer [TS]

00:55:36   are constantly doing here I feel like it [TS]

00:55:37   was like exactly what the show needed [TS]

00:55:39   because you couldn't really it all of [TS]

00:55:42   that goodwill that had been built up in [TS]

00:55:43   that first year could have really kind [TS]

00:55:44   of falling apart if there had been [TS]

00:55:46   another quick change or if the casting [TS]

00:55:48   decision had been different and instead [TS]

00:55:50   I I get the feeling actually that that [TS]

00:55:53   david tennant was on just as I feel like [TS]

00:55:56   Peter Capaldi was on Steven Moffat slist [TS]

00:55:58   and then he cast matt smith i get the [TS]

00:56:00   feeling that David was probably on [TS]

00:56:02   Russell T Davis's list and then cast [TS]

00:56:04   christopher eccleston and then kept him [TS]

00:56:05   in the back pocket for for later they [TS]

00:56:07   did a good a good bit there there which [TS]

00:56:09   was they explain later and I think it's [TS]

00:56:11   a reasonable explanation inside that [TS]

00:56:13   universe that's like Rose when you met [TS]

00:56:15   me I was like this guy was born out of [TS]

00:56:17   war is angry and you calmed me right and [TS]

00:56:22   that's how he then when he then the [TS]

00:56:23   ecclestone dr. becomes the Tenth Doctor [TS]

00:56:26   tensing he was born he was regenerated a [TS]

00:56:29   point in which you sort of healed and he [TS]

00:56:31   comes band that then they tie that back [TS]

00:56:33   into later with our more recent things [TS]

00:56:35   with bringing back my names of all [TS]

00:56:38   fallin on my head [TS]

00:56:40   the day of the doctor why can't I [TS]

00:56:41   remember his name we all know him [TS]

00:56:43   david tennant Matt Smith John Hurt know [TS]

00:56:45   that good before John Hurt the money [TS]

00:56:46   turns from home again home again thank [TS]

00:56:49   you my god my people night of the doctor [TS]

00:56:51   started the doctor you have that [TS]

00:56:52   recurrence but they're like oh well you [TS]

00:56:54   can be there can be these different [TS]

00:56:56   kinds of regeneration and they say [TS]

00:56:57   explicitly I think introduced into the [TS]

00:56:59   cannon but that's sort of what tenant [TS]

00:57:01   was saying and I think they use that [TS]

00:57:03   transition to say here's a different [TS]

00:57:04   kind of doctor but then [TS]

00:57:06   sort of retcon explain it in a way [TS]

00:57:07   that's plausible to think the reason is [TS]

00:57:09   different as he didn't just kill [TS]

00:57:10   everybody [TS]

00:57:11   he's one step removed and then you get [TS]

00:57:12   that again later as you come back to you [TS]

00:57:15   know this recent specials you get that [TS]

00:57:17   the echo again like I was one step away [TS]

00:57:19   i counted and then that's the saying i [TS]

00:57:22   forgot you know how many times you know [TS]

00:57:24   in our november episode by the way which [TS]

00:57:26   was I think we recorded literally the [TS]

00:57:28   day before that Paul McGann special got [TS]

00:57:31   dropped on the Internet [TS]

00:57:33   Glenn Glenn Glenn predicted that Paul [TS]

00:57:37   McGann would be in the 50th anniversary [TS]

00:57:38   special and I said absolutely not and [TS]

00:57:41   you know what we were both kind of right [TS]

00:57:43   because he's not in the 50th special but [TS]

00:57:45   he was there I open that episode with [TS]

00:57:46   the joke please state the nature of your [TS]

00:57:48   medical emergency and then the special [TS]

00:57:49   or the little thing started with a [TS]

00:57:51   doctor program asking what the emergency [TS]

00:57:53   was so Josh clan who do who don't you [TS]

00:57:56   know the future i know the future Jason [TS]

00:57:58   you have it has he ever hugged Rob [TS]

00:58:01   Sherman that's all I guess I'm going to [TS]

00:58:02   Gallifrey one to get canceled maybe [TS]

00:58:04   maybe Rob run don't go don't come this [TS]

00:58:07   year run otherwise you'll be glend [TS]

00:58:10   forever [TS]

00:58:12   Oh once you're in glens glaring database [TS]

00:58:14   you can never escape my face just turned [TS]

00:58:16   into a skull and back again [TS]

00:58:18   yeah mmm so-so because we are not going [TS]

00:58:21   to go on for five hours i wanna i want [TS]

00:58:24   to sort of step through the seasons and [TS]

00:58:25   get some thoughts about sort of a [TS]

00:58:27   particularly high points and if you want [TS]

00:58:29   to mention a low point to for each each [TS]

00:58:31   season that would be good so let's start [TS]

00:58:33   with david tennant first season series [TS]

00:58:35   too i will just say i love the girl in [TS]

00:58:38   the fireplace [TS]

00:58:38   I'm a softy i think that is a wonderful [TS]

00:58:40   episode that plays with time and in a [TS]

00:58:43   lot of really interesting ways it is [TS]

00:58:45   funny that Steven Moffat ransacked it [TS]

00:58:47   for river song later but I think as a [TS]

00:58:51   standalone episode it's it's uh it hits [TS]

00:58:54   me in all the right places and I [TS]

00:58:56   actually also love the impossible planet [TS]

00:58:59   satan pit episode i think it's really [TS]

00:59:01   awesome and dark and weird and the you [TS]

00:59:04   too great and almost everybody dies and [TS]

00:59:06   it's got that great claustrophobic base [TS]

00:59:09   under siege so that's those are my those [TS]

00:59:11   are my my high points i think my low [TS]

00:59:13   point sphere her which is a really bad [TS]

00:59:15   with of [TS]

00:59:16   process where I've actually never [TS]

00:59:17   watched it that's the 1i tried to watch [TS]

00:59:19   it three times i gave up Erica what are [TS]

00:59:21   your highs and lows from season to my [TS]

00:59:23   high is absolutely school reunion [TS]

00:59:25   because so good [TS]

00:59:27   Jared I've been a surgeon fan since I [TS]

00:59:29   was five years old so it was just that [TS]

00:59:31   episode did everything to me emotionally [TS]

00:59:34   that it was supposed to but the only [TS]

00:59:37   problem I sort of have with it now is [TS]

00:59:39   just the fact that they named the way [TS]

00:59:41   that she speaks to the doctor makes it [TS]

00:59:43   look like she's been pining away her [TS]

00:59:45   whole life and I don't like that thought [TS]

00:59:47   but then the sarah jane that we see in [TS]

00:59:49   the sarah jane adventures at there's [TS]

00:59:51   there's no heat of that so i have read [TS]

00:59:54   conduct my head to be that she was just [TS]

00:59:56   trying to kill him because that was a [TS]

00:59:57   really crappy thing with of him to do I [TS]

00:59:59   look [TS]

00:59:59   look [TS]

01:00:00   the idea that she thought he was going [TS]

01:00:01   to come back and he just never did and [TS]

01:00:03   I'm fine with anger but I'm not fine [TS]

01:00:05   with the I've been waiting around for [TS]

01:00:07   you my whole life line that that maybe a [TS]

01:00:09   little iffy Milo i think and i have to [TS]

01:00:11   admit i have not gone back and watched [TS]

01:00:13   it since it aired but I really did not [TS]

01:00:15   like love and monsters and i know that's [TS]

01:00:16   a very divisive divisive story at the [TS]

01:00:19   app is really polarizing and I don't [TS]

01:00:21   think for her is that bad I am fine with [TS]

01:00:24   fear i watch it again it i think it is [TS]

01:00:27   love and monsters [TS]

01:00:29   yeah I think fans don't like it for a [TS]

01:00:31   couple reasons one is that it is [TS]

01:00:32   completely off format and does not take [TS]

01:00:34   the format of the show very seriously on [TS]

01:00:36   another level it is Russell T Davis's [TS]

01:00:38   comment about fandom and I think for [TS]

01:00:41   some people they took it personally [TS]

01:00:43   although i think it's done with love and [TS]

01:00:46   monsters hit it is it is it is perhaps [TS]

01:00:49   the weirdest episode of doctor who ever [TS]

01:00:53   but I kind of let I kinda like it [TS]

01:00:55   any doctor who joked that and/or any [TS]

01:00:57   Doctor Who story that ends with a [TS]

01:00:58   fellatio joke that's just not okay for [TS]

01:01:00   me this is tee time television i agree [TS]

01:01:02   about that i agree about that i think [TS]

01:01:04   that was out of place yeah i watch the [TS]

01:01:06   in my mouth dropped i showed my wife was [TS]

01:01:08   not a doctor who fan i said are they say [TS]

01:01:11   what I think they're saying she's like [TS]

01:01:12   yeah like low-key that was i would say [TS]

01:01:15   unfortunate in what otherwise I actually [TS]

01:01:16   kind of enjoy an episode that's so [TS]

01:01:18   strange and so outside it literally is [TS]

01:01:20   what how do other people view the doctor [TS]

01:01:22   is also the great joke about claw claw [TS]

01:01:24   where you from klom from klom i have [TS]

01:01:27   Terry I've terrible eczema is that like [TS]

01:01:30   eczema [TS]

01:01:31   no it's much worse it's exuma anyway I [TS]

01:01:33   have eczema it's terrible chip what it [TS]

01:01:36   what are your highs and lows [TS]

01:01:38   I love it when Doctor Who experiments [TS]

01:01:40   with the format and love and monsters [TS]

01:01:43   tries and succeeds well enough until it [TS]

01:01:47   makes those sort of crafts turns to it [TS]

01:01:49   but that's a the last five minutes are [TS]

01:01:51   not good yeah yeah it's it's a failure [TS]

01:01:53   of execution not of concept I feel the [TS]

01:01:56   same way about another device of episode [TS]

01:01:59   the post Russell T Davis rings of [TS]

01:02:01   akhaten which some people hate and some [TS]

01:02:03   people love but I'm with I'm with Erica [TS]

01:02:07   on school reunion and that is the first [TS]

01:02:10   time when the show really know [TS]

01:02:13   just with Daleks but just embraces the [TS]

01:02:16   fact that there was this classic series [TS]

01:02:18   and there what these classics get these [TS]

01:02:21   classic characters were there indeed [TS]

01:02:22   matter it's very it's very sentimental [TS]

01:02:28   and that is that is a tool that Russell [TS]

01:02:31   T Davis wields throughout all five years [TS]

01:02:35   that he was on the show sentimentality [TS]

01:02:36   and uh when we were talking earlier [TS]

01:02:39   before Erica about whether we got [TS]

01:02:42   emotionally engaged with the show I [TS]

01:02:44   think that the sentimentality of Russell [TS]

01:02:47   T Davis's doctor who is either a big [TS]

01:02:49   turn-on or a big turn-off if you if you [TS]

01:02:53   accept that if you feel like you're [TS]

01:02:55   being manipulated school reunion girl in [TS]

01:02:57   the fireplace up all of these all of [TS]

01:03:01   these episodes really play on your [TS]

01:03:03   emotional heart strings right up to the [TS]

01:03:05   point when Rose falls into the void and [TS]

01:03:09   it saved by her dad and the the the love [TS]

01:03:12   relationship that's at a speech in the [TS]

01:03:14   world the saddest speech in the world [TS]

01:03:17   well the fact that Russell and that [TS]

01:03:20   Russell T Davis explicitly is playing [TS]

01:03:23   with a relationship between the doctor [TS]

01:03:26   and a companion that can be read as [TS]

01:03:28   romantic or at least as complex with [TS]

01:03:32   romantic issues involved that is [TS]

01:03:36   something that with the exception of the [TS]

01:03:38   kissing in the palm again TV movie you [TS]

01:03:41   know that's something that was also [TS]

01:03:43   completely alien to the show really [TS]

01:03:45   really divisive and that I think that [TS]

01:03:50   but i think that more than anything else [TS]

01:03:52   that marks the russell t davies Sarah [TS]

01:03:55   even though steven moffat didn't abandon [TS]

01:03:57   that when getting married off the doctor [TS]

01:04:00   River Song [TS]

01:04:01   no I think that's actually when I was [TS]

01:04:03   just going to say is that I think that [TS]

01:04:04   sentimentality that is the hallmark of [TS]

01:04:06   the rtd era is a double-edged sword and [TS]

01:04:08   I think that but both of those edges hit [TS]

01:04:11   me different ways because when it was [TS]

01:04:13   sentimentality aimed at the show itself [TS]

01:04:16   like in school reunion when you you know [TS]

01:04:20   it'sit's sentimentality for even [TS]

01:04:21   something like the Daleks of the [TS]

01:04:23   Cybermen where it's just sort of like [TS]

01:04:24   poking at the fans that that hit me [TS]

01:04:26   where I live [TS]

01:04:27   and I loved it when it was [TS]

01:04:28   sentimentality focused on this [TS]

01:04:31   perhaps love story between the doctor [TS]

01:04:33   and his companion that just that [TS]

01:04:35   completely threw me out of the story and [TS]

01:04:36   made me super super uncomfortable [TS]

01:04:38   because I spent so much time in my head [TS]

01:04:40   trying to find ways in which i could [TS]

01:04:43   read it as completely platonic and it is [TS]

01:04:45   possible because i think that he very [TS]

01:04:47   skillfully made it not over so that the [TS]

01:04:50   the shippers can can do their thing and [TS]

01:04:52   be happy with it and the old school fans [TS]

01:04:53   like me can see it a different way and [TS]

01:04:55   it still works but i felt like i was [TS]

01:04:57   doing a lot of mental gymnastics to make [TS]

01:04:59   sure I kept seeing it that way and [TS]

01:05:01   that's what made me uncomfortable [TS]

01:05:03   yeah I do i do really like the guy i [TS]

01:05:08   love i love the way this season ends I I [TS]

01:05:11   the crazy idea of putting the Daleks and [TS]

01:05:14   the Cybermen together in minutes late [TS]

01:05:17   it's you know if you're a fan and you're [TS]

01:05:19   the producer of doctor who your fan [TS]

01:05:21   fiction is doctor who and that's what [TS]

01:05:24   army of ghosts and doomsday I mean just [TS]

01:05:26   to have the banter between his you are [TS]

01:05:28   better one thing you're better at dying [TS]

01:05:30   that is just amazing and the I felt like [TS]

01:05:34   there was enough time spent with this [TS]

01:05:37   relationship that the emotional payoff [TS]

01:05:39   whether you're thinking about [TS]

01:05:41   I think it's no doubt she loves him does [TS]

01:05:43   he love her in the same way or not you [TS]

01:05:45   can kind of argue either way but either [TS]

01:05:46   way she is being torn away from him and [TS]

01:05:49   he it is completely tragic either way [TS]

01:05:51   and I you know that was what a wonderful [TS]

01:05:54   ending in fact I would argue that as [TS]

01:05:56   much as it was sort of nice to see [TS]

01:05:57   Billie Piper again later that I really [TS]

01:06:00   it kind of makes me mad that that this [TS]

01:06:02   ending gets devalued because it is so [TS]

01:06:05   heartbreaking and so brilliant and you [TS]

01:06:09   know it bugs me that they kind of bread [TS]

01:06:11   you didn't read comment but they like [TS]

01:06:12   made it not as important later he walks [TS]

01:06:15   away i think the ending the ending of [TS]

01:06:17   that of the season is my favorite part [TS]

01:06:19   of the season that because it was over [TS]

01:06:20   but i think it's so beautifully done [TS]

01:06:22   musically in spare that I'm burning the [TS]

01:06:24   heart of it son to come bring my spin my [TS]

01:06:28   hologram mr. yeah but the thing that [TS]

01:06:30   gets me this is the problem with him [TS]

01:06:32   coming in with a duplicate coming back [TS]

01:06:33   later and leaving the duplicate with [TS]

01:06:35   Rose all recipes like she's working to [TS]

01:06:37   get back to him [TS]

01:06:38   they're trying to make a reality gun to [TS]

01:06:40   Center cross dimensions which turns out [TS]

01:06:42   to be convenient he liked usually is [TS]

01:06:45   like I'll was about to say maybe I got [TS]

01:06:47   suppose you know I love you whatever is [TS]

01:06:49   going to say but then he's like alright [TS]

01:06:51   and then you know Donna Noble shows up [TS]

01:06:53   and his world has thrown up in you know [TS]

01:06:54   and he goes back into his into running [TS]

01:06:56   running running and he doesn't stop and [TS]

01:06:58   say maybe there's someone I mean that's [TS]

01:07:00   the great moment this this is what in [TS]

01:07:03   the Moffett era the role that I totally [TS]

01:07:08   lost my mind if I can't remember his [TS]

01:07:10   name he dies again and again and what [TS]

01:07:12   roar I apparently the heat in Seattle it [TS]

01:07:14   is an 90 degrees today which is the [TS]

01:07:16   equivalent of a thousand degrees [TS]

01:07:17   anywhere else it's always so Rory with [TS]

01:07:20   Rory and Amy Rory's role is that the [TS]

01:07:22   doctor says and you know in the end the [TS]

01:07:24   episode of the Torah open door opens the [TS]

01:07:26   next one what's the next episode again I [TS]

01:07:28   for one moment [TS]

01:07:29   thank you but I shit what he says is the [TS]

01:07:32   whole universe important you know Marie [TS]

01:07:33   says she's that important to meet the [TS]

01:07:35   whole universe is not as important to me [TS]

01:07:37   as pretty a me back the doctor doesn't [TS]

01:07:40   have that and i think david tennant's [TS]

01:07:42   are so there is dr. leaving rows behind [TS]

01:07:45   and going on well the doors universe is [TS]

01:07:47   closed and I guess that's it [TS]

01:07:49   it happens yeah and then when he gets [TS]

01:07:51   back he's like well I'm gonna leave this [TS]

01:07:53   copy of myself and Donna you know I got [TS]

01:07:55   your back and start out the figure out [TS]

01:07:57   the medic crisis you know that kind of [TS]

01:07:58   thing is like I think it does d value in [TS]

01:08:00   the sense that it shows that he walks [TS]

01:08:02   away again and again and again which is [TS]

01:08:03   the theme you know keeps going to keep [TS]

01:08:05   coming to the theme this is part of [TS]

01:08:07   what's neat about her showing up rose [TS]

01:08:08   showing up in the day of the doctor i [TS]

01:08:10   think is astonishing because it's not [TS]

01:08:12   her I loved her in that but i think the [TS]

01:08:15   idea that he gets haunted by her image [TS]

01:08:17   but only the one who doesn't remember [TS]

01:08:19   hers who sees it i think that's almost a [TS]

01:08:21   little bit of a revenge that that she [TS]

01:08:23   comes back that way i forgot about [TS]

01:08:25   doomsday that is another highlight for [TS]

01:08:27   me that's the only episode of Doctor Who [TS]

01:08:29   that I ever watched and just felt the [TS]

01:08:31   presence so overwhelmed by that I had to [TS]

01:08:33   immediately started over and watch it [TS]

01:08:35   again I mean there was there was ugly [TS]

01:08:37   ugly crying during that so yes it's it's [TS]

01:08:39   it's so good that it doesn't matter if [TS]

01:08:41   why you're crying also army of ghosts [TS]

01:08:43   was I think relatively weak and sort of [TS]

01:08:45   violets it setup right it's yeah it was [TS]

01:08:48   kind of like um [TS]

01:08:49   this and plastic sheeting and blue and [TS]

01:08:51   then it's like doomsday is like it just [TS]

01:08:53   brought it over [TS]

01:08:54   yeah yeah I shall we move on let's move [TS]

01:08:58   on third series highs and lows here [TS]

01:09:01   Glenn you want to start with this what [TS]

01:09:02   we are [TS]

01:09:03   I was a I was a big fan of many episodes [TS]

01:09:05   in the season i think this is a very [TS]

01:09:06   strong one and the Martha season [TS]

01:09:08   yeah I think she's great i call out i [TS]

01:09:10   like i like Smith and Jones are talking [TS]

01:09:11   about before Shakespeare code was fun [TS]

01:09:13   had some good elements to it [TS]

01:09:15   gridlock was meticulous but they had to [TS]

01:09:17   do it because they're trying to [TS]

01:09:18   establish relationship whatever the [TS]

01:09:20   Daleks episodes I thought I get [TS]

01:09:22   interesting but like sort of too much [TS]

01:09:23   and they ended up but they're setting [TS]

01:09:26   the stage for further things going on [TS]

01:09:27   your highs and lows literally every [TS]

01:09:29   episode trying to get with okay i'll [TS]

01:09:31   give you the lowest allow experience [TS]

01:09:33   which i hate it i thought that was it [TS]

01:09:34   was a not-good it was bad use of [TS]

01:09:36   Marcus's wonderful and I just thought it [TS]

01:09:38   was boring i actually think the family [TS]

01:09:40   blood might be the high i like the three [TS]

01:09:44   human nature human nature less family of [TS]

01:09:46   blood more especially the ending i will [TS]

01:09:49   watch their some episodes that wasn't [TS]

01:09:51   going to like and like and this is what [TS]

01:09:53   he did to us he made us live forever [TS]

01:09:55   like oh my god this is like four [TS]

01:09:57   different kinds of irony each of them [TS]

01:09:59   perfect so the three-part conclusion i [TS]

01:10:02   think is is actually totally terrific [TS]

01:10:04   but I think family blood probably the [TS]

01:10:06   high point in terms of a very evidence [TS]

01:10:09   the touching the watch and seeing his [TS]

01:10:11   alternate future and then the variance [TS]

01:10:14   really i think terrific episode chip I [TS]

01:10:18   think Glenn like season three [TS]

01:10:20   yeah thnkx island was good looking very [TS]

01:10:22   excited there it's it's it's it's a [TS]

01:10:25   pretty good season [TS]

01:10:26   I like Freema Agyeman when she starts [TS]

01:10:29   and then they really put the character [TS]

01:10:32   into a hole with the unrequited love [TS]

01:10:35   thing which which in itself is it so [TS]

01:10:38   awful except that's all that they did [TS]

01:10:40   with her in its it weakened her as a [TS]

01:10:42   character and she doesn't really come [TS]

01:10:45   back into her own until she leaves the [TS]

01:10:47   series for a while and then shows back [TS]

01:10:49   up in torchwood and fourth season [TS]

01:10:53   well it last of the Time Lords she is [TS]

01:10:55   really kind of redeem but it's all [TS]

01:10:56   happened off camera off camera that's [TS]

01:10:59   right and then there's a reset [TS]

01:11:02   yeah and then yeah so it's not one of my [TS]

01:11:05   favorite seasons even though i really [TS]

01:11:08   like the actress and I think that tenant [TS]

01:11:12   does a good job as usual but you know [TS]

01:11:15   with this are the Shakespeare code with [TS]

01:11:17   the spirit with the gratuitous JK [TS]

01:11:20   Rowling references and magic spells and [TS]

01:11:23   expel er miss at the end even though [TS]

01:11:25   there's some brilliantly funny bits in [TS]

01:11:26   it you know Shakespeare on on the make [TS]

01:11:30   with everyone with everyone [TS]

01:11:33   yeah love that guy is great but it's [TS]

01:11:37   it's not one of my favorite seasons [TS]

01:11:38   Erica I think it's funny that see the [TS]

01:11:43   season three is very it's not one of my [TS]

01:11:45   favorites and it is one of my favorites [TS]

01:11:47   because i think the first half the first [TS]

01:11:49   half is all just kind of low points for [TS]

01:11:51   me I didn't like I don't like celebrity [TS]

01:11:53   historical is usually something like the [TS]

01:11:54   Shakespeare code I I wasn't on board [TS]

01:11:56   with Martha really at first so just all [TS]

01:11:59   the way up through until we get to human [TS]

01:12:01   nature and then suddenly it skyrockets [TS]

01:12:02   and it just blows off the charts and I'm [TS]

01:12:04   a little bit of a paul cornell fan girl [TS]

01:12:06   who i think i've also hugged and he just [TS]

01:12:09   a human nature is I like human nature [TS]

01:12:12   better than family but although I love [TS]

01:12:14   them both [TS]

01:12:15   I like seeing david tennant play a [TS]

01:12:16   different character than the doctor [TS]

01:12:18   because John Smith is a different person [TS]

01:12:22   who is so clear in every way so i mean [TS]

01:12:25   it's it's written accidentally from from [TS]

01:12:27   hope Cornell's perspective and then it's [TS]

01:12:30   played wonderfully from david tennant's [TS]

01:12:31   i just it [TS]

01:12:33   everything came together for me there [TS]

01:12:34   and then you followed up with blink [TS]

01:12:36   which let me out but as i said before is [TS]

01:12:39   is wonderful and then you have utopia [TS]

01:12:40   where you get to see Derek freaking [TS]

01:12:42   Jacobi who is my favorite actor of all [TS]

01:12:44   time playing you know the moment that I [TS]

01:12:48   figured out what was about to happen [TS]

01:12:50   that he was actually the master i SAT up [TS]

01:12:53   on the couch and this is in a room with [TS]

01:12:54   a friend who doesn't know all that much [TS]

01:12:55   about Doctor Who and I just to set up on [TS]

01:12:57   the couch like oh my god and I then I [TS]

01:13:00   stood up and raise my hands in the air [TS]

01:13:02   and he was like what on earth and it [TS]

01:13:03   never mind you'll find out in a minute [TS]

01:13:05   gathered in a minute [TS]

01:13:06   yeah and then you have the sound of [TS]

01:13:08   drums which is now click this and then [TS]

01:13:10   i'll explain later [TS]

01:13:12   yeah that they that utopia turn I i love [TS]

01:13:16   i really like utopia it's not my high [TS]

01:13:18   point of the season but i like it [TS]

01:13:20   because it is two things it is for the [TS]

01:13:22   first whatever 40 minutes 30 minutes [TS]

01:13:24   it's like russell davis saying what is [TS]

01:13:27   the most doctor who episode i could make [TS]

01:13:30   it look like there's barely any others [TS]

01:13:32   in the base that sort of under siege and [TS]

01:13:34   there's the rocket and there's the and [TS]

01:13:36   then we've got this professor and his [TS]

01:13:38   companion that the doctor and his [TS]

01:13:40   companion meet and actually it's dead [TS]

01:13:42   the doctor and two companions because [TS]

01:13:44   you have captain amagai coming back [TS]

01:13:45   which is really graphic dr plus you know [TS]

01:13:47   yet captain jack is back that's more eye [TS]

01:13:49   candy for me a trillion years in the [TS]

01:13:51   future it's the farthest they've ever go [TS]

01:13:53   on the Time Lords are freaked out by it [TS]

01:13:55   so 30 30 minutes that you get you get [TS]

01:13:57   about about five to seven minutes of [TS]

01:14:00   that wonderful conversation between [TS]

01:14:02   david tennant John Barrowman where John [TS]

01:14:05   Barrowman is basically behind a sheet of [TS]

01:14:07   glass doing radioactive things and dying [TS]

01:14:10   over and over again and they have the [TS]

01:14:12   whole conversation about the Time Lords [TS]

01:14:14   about him regenerating and not coming [TS]

01:14:16   back for him and what happened to Rose [TS]

01:14:18   and all that which is really good and [TS]

01:14:19   then you get the end where we have a [TS]

01:14:22   reveal of the master and all of that [TS]

01:14:23   which is just the most when i watch that [TS]

01:14:28   with my kids I afterward I'll i was [TS]

01:14:30   saying to my wife I think that's the [TS]

01:14:32   most intense seven minutes of doctor who [TS]

01:14:35   ever it is like you want to scream as [TS]

01:14:38   it's happening it is so because so much [TS]

01:14:41   is going on the the rocket is going in [TS]

01:14:43   and Martha's running and saying he's got [TS]

01:14:45   the watch and-and-and chanceux and and [TS]

01:14:48   the professor are having their last [TS]

01:14:50   little encounter and the the future kind [TS]

01:14:53   of rushing into the base and and there's [TS]

01:14:56   a regeneration at me it's just edit it [TS]

01:14:58   is so it is insanely intense and I do [TS]

01:15:01   think that the the final two partner is [TS]

01:15:03   a big letdown it's fine but it's not [TS]

01:15:05   great and utopia is is I yeah it's over [TS]

01:15:09   it's over looked in some ways because it [TS]

01:15:11   is like three different episodes in one [TS]

01:15:12   yet it is great also its Russell T Davis [TS]

01:15:15   again in this series he seeded it with [TS]

01:15:18   little bits and pieces I mean you see [TS]

01:15:20   you see that john sims are you hear his [TS]

01:15:23   his name he [TS]

01:15:24   character throughout and you have no [TS]

01:15:26   idea that it means anything until it [TS]

01:15:28   comes together [TS]

01:15:29   yeah yep Saxons even in the runaway [TS]

01:15:32   bride [TS]

01:15:33   there's a that that's where it starts [TS]

01:15:35   and it goes throughout the whole season [TS]

01:15:35   so so for me it's very hard because I [TS]

01:15:42   this is a season of highs and lows for [TS]

01:15:43   me I wouldn't say sort of beginning and [TS]

01:15:45   I feel like the Daleks to partner is [TS]

01:15:47   about as bad as doctor who has gotten in [TS]

01:15:49   the modern era [TS]

01:15:50   I think it's a I think it's a badly [TS]

01:15:53   written badly can see could have been [TS]

01:15:54   better had sort of a little gem of an [TS]

01:15:56   idea and then stretched it over too many [TS]

01:15:58   episodes there's too much and that [TS]

01:15:59   doesn't make any sense [TS]

01:16:01   even the idea of what if the Daleks had [TS]

01:16:02   to like become humanoid is kind of [TS]

01:16:05   booted and miss it not handled well and [TS]

01:16:10   the the the the climax is ludicrous [TS]

01:16:13   because it's literally like in the [TS]

01:16:14   theater because i don't have any other [TS]

01:16:16   sets and so of course will take over New [TS]

01:16:17   York from the stage of the theater [TS]

01:16:19   because Y and Lazarus experiment is not [TS]

01:16:23   that much better and 42 is a boring but [TS]

01:16:27   not terrible but not interesting in [TS]

01:16:29   anyway it's a really deep dark hole in [TS]

01:16:32   the middle of this season the human [TS]

01:16:34   nature to partner is fantastic blink is [TS]

01:16:36   blink it's like twilight zone level [TS]

01:16:38   episode it is it is on its own outside [TS]

01:16:40   of Doctor Who I think a wonderful 45 [TS]

01:16:42   minutes that we talked about this before [TS]

01:16:44   they plan to spend a show-off because [TS]

01:16:46   it's so felt like they planned is gonna [TS]

01:16:47   show up I have said this high Sparrow [TS]

01:16:49   Sparrow Nightingale adventures I was so [TS]

01:16:51   angry that Carey Mulligan became famous [TS]

01:16:54   in store for fans because they could [TS]

01:16:56   have brought her back and made her [TS]

01:16:57   companion but instead she had to become [TS]

01:16:58   like an Academy Award nominee so but [TS]

01:17:00   I've left off and I like the Shakespeare [TS]

01:17:02   code I didn't have a problem with the [TS]

01:17:04   stupid things that we're going because [TS]

01:17:05   it's just I I thought it was a whole lot [TS]

01:17:07   of fun but i wanted to say a word about [TS]

01:17:09   gridlock I think gridlock is one of the [TS]

01:17:11   single best scripts i think it's maybe [TS]

01:17:12   the second best if not the best script [TS]

01:17:15   russell davis road for the series and i [TS]

01:17:16   sit and i say that because I think he [TS]

01:17:19   gets caught up in his operatic finales [TS]

01:17:23   and all of these things he wants to do [TS]

01:17:24   to say i want this kind of doctor who [TS]

01:17:26   episode and gridlock is this strange [TS]

01:17:28   one-off episode and I think it's kind of [TS]

01:17:30   I think it's kind of funny and I think [TS]

01:17:32   it's kind of beautiful and it's got a [TS]

01:17:35   sad ending but I it feels like something [TS]

01:17:38   very different and I feel like it uses [TS]

01:17:41   different parts of his talent and i like [TS]

01:17:43   i like it a lot and it like the end of [TS]

01:17:46   the event of the world it has a [TS]

01:17:49   fantastic ending where Martha basically [TS]

01:17:51   says you've been lying to me you're [TS]

01:17:52   gonna sit down and tell me what happened [TS]

01:17:55   and meanwhile they freed the people of [TS]

01:17:56   New York and I think it's I think it's [TS]

01:17:58   actually a beautiful episode and also [TS]

01:18:00   has kept people in it but i like and [TS]

01:18:02   it's funny but i really like it a lot it [TS]

01:18:04   is strange and and beautiful and I like [TS]

01:18:07   it even though it's an odd choice [TS]

01:18:09   it's a great episode and it also [TS]

01:18:11   highlights something that not a lot of [TS]

01:18:13   people pick up on with Russell T Davis [TS]

01:18:15   which is he can be a real cynical guy [TS]

01:18:17   sometimes even for all the operatic and [TS]

01:18:19   sentimentality stuff the people and [TS]

01:18:22   gridlock are trapped because they've [TS]

01:18:24   been putting their hope in religious [TS]

01:18:26   faith rather in rather than getting [TS]

01:18:29   something done although you could argue [TS]

01:18:30   that they're actually putting their hope [TS]

01:18:32   in the system and the society and their [TS]

01:18:34   religious faith is the only thing [TS]

01:18:35   keeping them alive but but but it's [TS]

01:18:38   alright yes is it is dark and weird on [TS]

01:18:40   one level and yet uplifting and positive [TS]

01:18:43   about humanity in another way it's very [TS]

01:18:46   sweet i feel like this is I i guess i'm [TS]

01:18:49   not making this as clear as I would like [TS]

01:18:51   to i feel like if if Russell to Davis [TS]

01:18:53   wasn't the showrunner and he was just [TS]

01:18:54   brought in for a random episode I feel [TS]

01:18:56   like this is the kind of thing he would [TS]

01:18:58   do as opposed to as the showrunner [TS]

01:19:00   feeling the burden of I've got to write [TS]

01:19:01   the introduction episode and I've got to [TS]

01:19:03   write the conclusion episodes and all [TS]

01:19:05   that this is just the drop in and I [TS]

01:19:07   think it's very cool [TS]

01:19:08   so if we ever make it to season four he [TS]

01:19:10   he gets another episode in just like [TS]

01:19:12   that [TS]

01:19:13   I know that was foreshadowing ship is [TS]

01:19:14   what i was doing there when i said that [TS]

01:19:16   it was like one of his two best scripts [TS]

01:19:18   anyway we should talk about season 4 [TS]

01:19:20   which is with donna who can we just go [TS]

01:19:24   out and say Donna is great can we do [TS]

01:19:26   that died is is super great super super [TS]

01:19:30   great i mean in the doctor magazine poll [TS]

01:19:32   of the best companions it was Sarah Jane [TS]

01:19:34   one and Donna to i believe i believe [TS]

01:19:37   that is correct [TS]

01:19:39   so yeah she's great so great that they [TS]

01:19:44   brought her back for Catherine hands [TS]

01:19:45   were terrified I know about that many [TS]

01:19:48   that they were mild about her [TS]

01:19:50   performance in the run [TS]

01:19:51   a bride they were dr. fans are always [TS]

01:19:55   suspicious of comedians coming onto [TS]

01:19:57   their show and and she became an [TS]

01:20:01   incredibly subtle character uh and [TS]

01:20:05   somebody that you just wanted a hug when [TS]

01:20:09   she wasn't shouting at you have you [TS]

01:20:12   hugged her i have not but i would love [TS]

01:20:14   to yeah sure i would want to she said ya [TS]

01:20:17   had great great character great uh after [TS]

01:20:20   having rose and and Martha to have you [TS]

01:20:24   know you're not meeting with me sunshine [TS]

01:20:25   right [TS]

01:20:27   oh that was wonderful you want to meet [TS]

01:20:30   no no I want to meet you wouldn't and [TS]

01:20:31   once again partners in crime is another [TS]

01:20:33   one of those examples of the finely [TS]

01:20:35   crafted carefully structured [TS]

01:20:37   introduction episode that has that [TS]

01:20:39   fantastic scene where they are between [TS]

01:20:41   several panes of glass having an [TS]

01:20:43   entirely mind conversation with each [TS]

01:20:46   other which is hilarious and strange all [TS]

01:20:48   at once that is a great just great I [TS]

01:20:51   think I think Steven Moffat said well [TS]

01:20:53   somebody asked him about criticism of [TS]

01:20:55   russell davis and he said read the [TS]

01:20:56   partners in crime script it's about as [TS]

01:20:58   good a TV script as you'll ever read and [TS]

01:21:00   that's a great fit the whole thing the [TS]

01:21:01   coincidence thing to that like that the [TS]

01:21:03   heart bead or whatever like another [TS]

01:21:05   great artists like Donna I met you that [TS]

01:21:07   I met you again I Met Your father [TS]

01:21:09   grandfather and it's your red car home [TS]

01:21:13   and it still is true whatever who love [TS]

01:21:15   who does who doesn't love Bernard [TS]

01:21:16   Cribbins appearance i love to I love [TS]

01:21:18   Bracken's Bernard Cribbins probably [TS]

01:21:21   burner I'm burner very cryptic your [TS]

01:21:23   England said right said fred it's um but [TS]

01:21:27   can I tell my favorite episode yes go [TS]

01:21:28   ahead and got it also turn left turn [TS]

01:21:30   left [TS]

01:21:31   so good i watch that one again and again [TS]

01:21:33   from that season because it's um I know [TS]

01:21:35   it's kind of a it's like again the [TS]

01:21:37   doctors barely in it but it has so many [TS]

01:21:39   wonderful things that makes good use the [TS]

01:21:41   campaign's makes good use of of unit [TS]

01:21:44   there's some crazy there's there's a bit [TS]

01:21:47   actually think helen is when she wakes [TS]

01:21:49   up in the past on the street lying on [TS]

01:21:52   the ground and she hears the music good [TS]

01:21:54   to do and the guy in the boombox walks [TS]

01:21:56   by with it and I'm like that's cute like [TS]

01:21:58   that's a little [TS]

01:22:00   a high anxiety moment there for us from [TS]

01:22:02   books but i just think it's it's very [TS]

01:22:05   wonderfully structured and at the end i [TS]

01:22:08   think that is one of the most chilling [TS]

01:22:10   and wonderful bits like it is very short [TS]

01:22:12   is she said to worry who is a blonde [TS]

01:22:14   girl who was what she say she said two [TS]

01:22:16   words in the bad wolf and the craziness [TS]

01:22:19   it's awful and crazy this is bad wolf [TS]

01:22:21   everywhere then the the cloister Bell [TS]

01:22:23   and complete completely ignored in the [TS]

01:22:25   next episode but it's a great ending [TS]

01:22:27   exactly taller than the cloister Bell [TS]

01:22:29   and then it's just like but it's a great [TS]

01:22:31   little bit like bad wolf and then you're [TS]

01:22:33   like oh my god they're gonna bring it [TS]

01:22:35   around again you know you thought they [TS]

01:22:37   already run through Billy than there she [TS]

01:22:39   is then they whatever then we can get [TS]

01:22:40   that wolf and so I i really like that [TS]

01:22:43   was it you have a low point low point [TS]

01:22:46   i'm a big fan of the centaurans so maybe [TS]

01:22:50   thats I thought that was the two-parter [TS]

01:22:52   was too long and sort of tedious and the [TS]

01:22:54   really irritating that early that early [TS]

01:22:57   series two partners and I bet it's a [TS]

01:22:59   hard place to be [TS]

01:23:01   yeah because you know i already [TS]

01:23:01   mentioned my life that planet the point [TS]

01:23:03   of the unit is a really good sort of our [TS]

01:23:04   canonical one with the doctor in it but [TS]

01:23:06   yeah I'm it yeah I think that's it you [TS]

01:23:09   know the interaction of our song is [TS]

01:23:10   important but I don't think those [TS]

01:23:11   episodes are necessarily don't say the [TS]

01:23:13   strongest the season but you know I [TS]

01:23:16   actually doctor's daughter point really [TS]

01:23:17   did not like that episode at all so [TS]

01:23:20   that's probably the low point because [TS]

01:23:21   its entirety of this entire is too long [TS]

01:23:23   yet so doctor's daughter with a low [TS]

01:23:24   point turn left with my way Erica what [TS]

01:23:27   do you think you know i'm looking at the [TS]

01:23:29   list of episodes in that series and I i [TS]

01:23:33   don't know that i have a high point that [TS]

01:23:34   is just when I unless I could say that [TS]

01:23:37   my high point is Donna herself because I [TS]

01:23:40   think fondly of this series because I [TS]

01:23:42   ended up loving Donna so much I I hated [TS]

01:23:44   her in the runaway bride a lot so I was [TS]

01:23:47   I was one of those fans that was freaked [TS]

01:23:49   out and nervous that she was coming back [TS]

01:23:50   to actually be the companion and I did [TS]

01:23:52   not like partners in crime because of [TS]

01:23:54   that scene that you're talking about [TS]

01:23:56   Jason because there was there was so [TS]

01:23:58   much silliness and I just I don't don't [TS]

01:24:00   like that kind of wacky slapstick stuff [TS]

01:24:02   all right right the same figure from [TS]

01:24:03   black biggest same thing all right [TS]

01:24:05   exactly so it's a big turn off so he [TS]

01:24:07   took a few seemed like such a nice [TS]

01:24:09   person and yet at [TS]

01:24:12   i'm really not i'm not at all man and [TS]

01:24:15   she she she confesses to liking mirror [TS]

01:24:18   grant books and then it just all goes [TS]

01:24:19   downhill from the investment yep [TS]

01:24:21   somebody's gonna like from somebody's [TS]

01:24:22   got to like them defeat the John has got [TS]

01:24:25   some great stuff in fires of Pompeii [TS]

01:24:27   she's got some great stuff in unicorn in [TS]

01:24:29   the wasp she's got some good stuff in [TS]

01:24:31   silence in the library to I did I i [TS]

01:24:33   think going back and rewatching now I [TS]

01:24:36   would like her more in partners in crime [TS]

01:24:38   and fires of Pompeii I just I didn't [TS]

01:24:41   like I just didn't like her [TS]

01:24:43   characterization at first because it was [TS]

01:24:44   so in your face and that was that was [TS]

01:24:47   difficult for me but once I kind of got [TS]

01:24:50   on board and learn to like her then it [TS]

01:24:53   was just she could do no wrong and I [TS]

01:24:54   loved everything and if I had to pick a [TS]

01:24:56   high point it would probably be the [TS]

01:24:57   Sontaran to partner because I adore [TS]

01:25:00   Sontarans and yep i adore Sontaran [TS]

01:25:03   that's i adore Sontarans to but not not [TS]

01:25:06   but not there huh [TS]

01:25:09   no I love them so much so yeah so that [TS]

01:25:12   was that I think that it low point is [TS]

01:25:15   just sort of most of it but one but the [TS]

01:25:18   high point is is absolutely Donna for [TS]

01:25:20   sure [TS]

01:25:20   however it's I have very mixed feelings [TS]

01:25:22   about her end but overall she's one of [TS]

01:25:28   my favorite new series companions maybe [TS]

01:25:30   one of my favorite all-time chip what's [TS]

01:25:33   your thought about series series for my [TS]

01:25:35   favorite would have to be midnight if [TS]

01:25:38   this is it is such a subversive episode [TS]

01:25:42   because it takes the it takes the doctor [TS]

01:25:45   and it puts him as in a circumstance [TS]

01:25:46   where there is absolutely nobody else [TS]

01:25:49   around to tell the world how reliable [TS]

01:25:52   and how great and how helpful the doctor [TS]

01:25:55   is he stuck in a bus and nobody in the [TS]

01:25:58   bus trust him and they almost chuck them [TS]

01:26:01   out of the bus and killing and he comes [TS]

01:26:03   out of it just shattered and that is [TS]

01:26:07   just it its powerful writing it's [TS]

01:26:09   another one of those i think that you [TS]

01:26:11   would have said Jason where if he just [TS]

01:26:13   came in and did an episode that would be [TS]

01:26:15   the one he did it [TS]

01:26:16   it'sit's Russell T Davis or stepping [TS]

01:26:19   outside of the ark to just tell not the [TS]

01:26:22   story that he always wanted to tell but [TS]

01:26:25   the store [TS]

01:26:25   worried that you almost have to still [TS]

01:26:27   have to tell about the doctor to sort of [TS]

01:26:29   deep to deflate the mystery around him [TS]

01:26:34   or something like that if you didn't he [TS]

01:26:36   write it just just right off the cuff [TS]

01:26:38   wasn't that sort of dropped in because [TS]

01:26:40   something else fell out of the way and [TS]

01:26:42   that's like--that's that that's the sign [TS]

01:26:43   of a good writer i mean he he just you [TS]

01:26:46   know what whipped that off like I wish [TS]

01:26:47   he would have done something more like [TS]

01:26:49   that for some of his finale while this [TS]

01:26:51   is that this is the thing is there's the [TS]

01:26:52   Russell T Davies was a really good [TS]

01:26:53   writer and then there's a guy who wanted [TS]

01:26:55   to do or felt the need to do the big [TS]

01:26:58   operatic finales and all of that because [TS]

01:26:59   that he was the showrunner and that's [TS]

01:27:01   what he felt people needed out of the [TS]

01:27:02   Ark of the series but as a result I feel [TS]

01:27:04   like we did kind of get cheated out of [TS]

01:27:06   more episodes that showcase him being [TS]

01:27:08   who is which is a really really good [TS]

01:27:11   writer when you know and I say that [TS]

01:27:14   somebody who thinks that his continually [TS]

01:27:16   turning up the volume on the finales [TS]

01:27:18   kind of went way too far but in an [TS]

01:27:20   episode like this chip I mean obviously [TS]

01:27:21   this is my high point two and it is i [TS]

01:27:24   think his best script and i would [TS]

01:27:26   actually put a make a little box of [TS]

01:27:27   midnight and and blink and say my I've [TS]

01:27:32   said this before saying the twilight [TS]

01:27:35   zone it's like these you put these on [TS]

01:27:37   that level of like this is an anthology [TS]

01:27:39   just take the script and and run it and [TS]

01:27:42   it doesn't matter what show it's in and [TS]

01:27:45   it's just so brilliantly written and and [TS]

01:27:47   III seriously midnight could be a [TS]

01:27:50   Twilight Zone episode and i would put it [TS]

01:27:52   there with a work of Rod Serling it is [TS]

01:27:54   that kind of like great it would be [TS]

01:27:57   great play it would be a fantastic scary [TS]

01:28:00   weird play and I do think I do think [TS]

01:28:03   it's brilliant so I'm with you on bid 90 [TS]

01:28:05   midnight i think it has been staged [TS]

01:28:07   actually I think they've done that [TS]

01:28:08   somewhere in New York what makes sense [TS]

01:28:11   because closed rewrites the locked room [TS]

01:28:12   think you can do it as a plane much more [TS]

01:28:14   easily [TS]

01:28:15   yeah it'sit's the total bottle show [TS]

01:28:18   episode it's like the fly episode of [TS]

01:28:20   breaking bad only even more [TS]

01:28:21   claustrophobic they had to build the set [TS]

01:28:23   but then they just use that set a low [TS]

01:28:26   point for you chip doctor's daughter [TS]

01:28:29   it's the only time it's the only time [TS]

01:28:32   I've yelled at my new series doctor who [TS]

01:28:35   yelled at the screen because when you [TS]

01:28:37   yell what did you [TS]

01:28:38   I aren't Pete that I cannot repeat what [TS]

01:28:42   I yell but the thing the thing that [TS]

01:28:44   upsets me about that episode is that [TS]

01:28:47   there are absolutely no surprises [TS]

01:28:49   everything right everything happens from [TS]

01:28:55   there is just no surprise you know that [TS]

01:28:59   she is going to die at the end you know [TS]

01:29:01   that she is going to regenerate at the [TS]

01:29:03   end the even even when the doctor holds [TS]

01:29:08   the gun to the generals head and [TS]

01:29:12   postures bit it's all hollow it's all [TS]

01:29:15   just bad if the the jumping in front of [TS]

01:29:19   a guy I mean social so lazy so clich├ęd [TS]

01:29:22   the this episode's right content in [TS]

01:29:23   order for David Tennant and in Georgia [TS]

01:29:26   to get together right is that it's [TS]

01:29:27   inside it's a reality retcon I think [TS]

01:29:29   she's a lot of fun in this episode in [TS]

01:29:30   fact I I think I think I think georgia [TS]

01:29:33   moffett and I would also say the scenes [TS]

01:29:37   with Martha and the little bubbly half [TS]

01:29:40   guy i think are the only redeeming [TS]

01:29:42   things in the entire episode but those [TS]

01:29:44   those you know she's she's good she's [TS]

01:29:47   just trapped in a bad script yeah and i [TS]

01:29:50   will briefly say because I'm [TS]

01:29:52   contractually obligated to i am a fan of [TS]

01:29:55   the stolen earth and journey's end and I [TS]

01:29:58   do like that operatic stuff and i will [TS]

01:30:01   say in my defense that night that it was [TS]

01:30:04   a for the longest time the highest-rated [TS]

01:30:07   in terms of audience and audience [TS]

01:30:09   appreciation of all the series it was a [TS]

01:30:12   crowd pleaser and as a crowd as a part [TS]

01:30:15   of a crowd i was pleased i recently [TS]

01:30:17   watched it and I might like it much [TS]

01:30:19   better this time I quite enjoyed it so [TS]

01:30:21   I'm I'm on Team ship when we did the [TS]

01:30:23   family rewatch stolen earth journeys and [TS]

01:30:25   you know it's sort of silly and there's [TS]

01:30:28   some really weird stuff in it that [TS]

01:30:29   you're like really ok like the Daleks [TS]

01:30:32   are beaming people up to the ship for [TS]

01:30:34   this weird test and I mean there's a lot [TS]

01:30:36   of like short kind of like well we look [TS]

01:30:38   we need that to happen so this other [TS]

01:30:39   thing that but the only thing I hated [TS]

01:30:40   about it was the warp star diamond right [TS]

01:30:42   right but but I actually really liked [TS]

01:30:45   that too [TS]

01:30:46   it is because i like the family reunion [TS]

01:30:48   aspect of it like let's get everybody [TS]

01:30:50   back together in fact [TS]

01:30:52   uh you could wear and we're about to [TS]

01:30:53   move on to the specials i would say one [TS]

01:30:55   of the things that has made me like it [TS]

01:30:56   more is that I've seen now the next step [TS]

01:30:59   of of operatic ending which is the end [TS]

01:31:01   of time and I it makes me wish that the [TS]

01:31:04   the journey's end had been the end for [TS]

01:31:06   david tennant because it's felt like the [TS]

01:31:08   end for Russell T Davis and david [TS]

01:31:10   tennant it was literally let's bring [TS]

01:31:12   everybody back let's close the books we [TS]

01:31:14   you know here's the end of the story [TS]

01:31:16   journey's end and now bring in the new [TS]

01:31:18   doctor and instead what we just let's do [TS]

01:31:21   it again next year for more specials [TS]

01:31:23   Jason that's exactly what I was just [TS]

01:31:26   thinking is that the the let's get [TS]

01:31:29   everybody together thing kind of [TS]

01:31:30   bothered me a little bit because it was [TS]

01:31:32   hokey and cheesy but I'm okay with [TS]

01:31:34   hockey and cheesy if it's this last gas [TS]

01:31:37   but you know big ending things so in my [TS]

01:31:39   mind he actually did regenerate at the [TS]

01:31:42   end of journey's end and then we had [TS]

01:31:43   nothing else in LA [TS]

01:31:45   my fingers are in my ears I can't hear [TS]

01:31:46   you I can't hear you you can't do that [TS]

01:31:48   you can't do that you can't turn down [TS]

01:31:50   waters of mars like that I know you [TS]

01:31:52   can't well yes I can yes I can let's [TS]

01:31:54   forget we'll get there we'll get there [TS]

01:31:55   in a minute I'm i wanted to i want to [TS]

01:31:58   say for me I midnight obviously the high [TS]

01:32:00   point for me although i really do like [TS]

01:32:02   fires of pompeii and I and unicorn in [TS]

01:32:07   the wasp is I think hilariously funny [TS]

01:32:09   and and and the Mafia two-parter i think [TS]

01:32:12   is really good [TS]

01:32:13   although it does recycle things and and [TS]

01:32:16   in true Steven Moffat timey-wimey [TS]

01:32:17   fashion pre cycles things where he will [TS]

01:32:20   strip mine it for things that he'll use [TS]

01:32:23   again and again and again when he comes [TS]

01:32:25   and runs the show I I didn't like I it's [TS]

01:32:29   a low point I'm gonna like turn left as [TS]

01:32:31   much as a lot of people did it just you [TS]

01:32:33   know I think it's fine i think the [TS]

01:32:35   little bug is really weird and the [TS]

01:32:36   Caradoc that the fortune-teller [TS]

01:32:38   character is kind of a strange and [TS]

01:32:40   racist stereotype and but the sitaaron [TS]

01:32:45   to partner is really bad and doctor's [TS]

01:32:46   daughter daughter is really bad i [TS]

01:32:47   thought so those are my losers there but [TS]

01:32:50   boy I love midnight i'm a chap to [TS]

01:32:52   midnight blue tonight sounds like [TS]

01:32:54   twilight it's a little scary like we're [TS]

01:32:55   fans of a vampire book or something but [TS]

01:32:58   no it's a misanthropic Twilight Zone [TS]

01:33:01   episode that i love that is also the [TS]

01:33:03   target for complete [TS]

01:33:04   this on the pacific on exactly so [TS]

01:33:05   special let's before we go and we are [TS]

01:33:08   going to go [TS]

01:33:08   are we the specials we have the next [TS]

01:33:13   Doctor planet of the dead the waters of [TS]

01:33:15   mars in the end of time I I my feeling [TS]

01:33:21   here is that I've to like Erica would [TS]

01:33:24   dream of ending it with journey's end [TS]

01:33:26   the only limitation there is I really [TS]

01:33:28   actually love the waters of mars it is [TS]

01:33:30   one of my favorite David Tennant [TS]

01:33:32   episodes i love everything about it love [TS]

01:33:34   it love it love it i love all aspects of [TS]

01:33:36   it I think it's a great episode and [TS]

01:33:39   otherwise I find nothing to command any [TS]

01:33:42   of these specials so that's the very end [TS]

01:33:45   of the end of time the very end of the [TS]

01:33:46   independent last like you know that [TS]

01:33:48   little brief code at the end of time we [TS]

01:33:50   said goodbye to everybody that goes on [TS]

01:33:51   for about half an hour [TS]

01:33:53   I like that when I hate that the part [TS]

01:33:55   part 1 of end of time only thing I will [TS]

01:33:57   defend I did not like any of these [TS]

01:33:58   really i'm actually the next doctor was [TS]

01:34:00   sort of sweet and interesting absolute [TS]

01:34:03   lever what's that you have a balloon [TS]

01:34:05   feelin it was clever it was just it [TS]

01:34:07   wasn't i don't think was well developed [TS]

01:34:08   but i think the Miss Havisham no I said [TS]

01:34:11   her name it's a good fit the character [TS]

01:34:13   dev lick her wounds really miss Hartigan [TS]

01:34:16   see I can find a way i can find a name I [TS]

01:34:19   think she was a wonderful that wonderful [TS]

01:34:21   performance was a wonderful character [TS]

01:34:23   and her arc through it was creepy and [TS]

01:34:28   good had a great [TS]

01:34:29   kaboom conclusion but and what I do not [TS]

01:34:32   like waters of mars i thought it was [TS]

01:34:34   full of holes and just sort of i'm not [TS]

01:34:36   speaking fan of Superman's but here's [TS]

01:34:38   the thing so end of time I think of when [TS]

01:34:40   I think of a time I forget there's a [TS]

01:34:41   part 1 and i'm looking at this and then [TS]

01:34:43   remembering this apart one which I [TS]

01:34:45   didn't I thought which is full of [TS]

01:34:46   nonsense in him eating people at the [TS]

01:34:48   hamburger stand and all you know it's a [TS]

01:34:51   very easy stuff with the setup it's a [TS]

01:34:53   weird things like I'm so hungry their [TS]

01:34:55   skeletons in the super creepy rich guy [TS]

01:34:58   and his daughter and his little thing [TS]

01:34:59   that he's building is too much right [TS]

01:35:02   ok so but that but part 2 I thought had [TS]

01:35:05   wonderful stuff in also i really like [TS]

01:35:08   Bernard Cribbins I thought he was used [TS]

01:35:09   extremely well I like the [TS]

01:35:12   out you know that I think it came out [TS]

01:35:13   don't we know that it's actually the [TS]

01:35:15   moment the claire bloom is supposed to [TS]

01:35:17   be the doctors mother might supposedly [TS]

01:35:20   but I thought her showing up and [TS]

01:35:21   disappearing [TS]

01:35:22   whatever the reason it didn't bother me [TS]

01:35:24   there wasn't a strict like Time Lord [TS]

01:35:26   plot reason that came out and they [TS]

01:35:27   started to let me explain it's fine to [TS]

01:35:28   explain explain this [TS]

01:35:30   I think there's enough holes and time [TS]

01:35:32   and other things you could just say this [TS]

01:35:33   is a thing but this is the way she [TS]

01:35:34   dressed bernhard the the sort of [TS]

01:35:37   confusing aspect cover [TS]

01:35:38   I thought that was terrific and I [TS]

01:35:41   thought it came to a great conclusion [TS]

01:35:42   because you have that relationship [TS]

01:35:43   between the doctor and the master which [TS]

01:35:45   goes back for decades and which is [TS]

01:35:47   confused different times that the master [TS]

01:35:49   went from being sort of this creature of [TS]

01:35:51   pure evil sort of where the JK Rowling [TS]

01:35:53   you know gets her master full name made [TS]

01:35:56   of old apart from sort of it's like [TS]

01:35:58   somebody who's just totally evil and his [TS]

01:35:59   goals are sort of incomprehensible [TS]

01:36:01   because often destroying the universe [TS]

01:36:02   accidentally or on purpose like we don't [TS]

01:36:04   get a power if there is no universe in [TS]

01:36:07   here it's like I thought it was much [TS]

01:36:09   more direct i love the actor who played [TS]

01:36:11   the master and at the end he gets to do [TS]

01:36:14   that thing he gets to say all right i [TS]

01:36:16   have an opportunity to sacrifice and [TS]

01:36:17   they use that really wonderfully I think [TS]

01:36:20   it went on too long that scene and then [TS]

01:36:22   just that bit when bernhard knocks on [TS]

01:36:25   the door pop pop and you're like oh that [TS]

01:36:28   was the payoff that was fantastic chip [TS]

01:36:31   it's time it's time to go ahead let me [TS]

01:36:34   have it [TS]

01:36:34   my favorite episode of my favorite [TS]

01:36:37   special is the waters of mars Oh affect [TS]

01:36:41   their you you thought i was going to say [TS]

01:36:42   something else I did you did I did you [TS]

01:36:45   surprise me from now till the end of [TS]

01:36:46   time [TS]

01:36:47   no the waters of mars is genius [TS]

01:36:51   rtd and fill for just put together [TS]

01:36:54   something that was gripping and scary [TS]

01:36:57   and very Doctor Who I think very doctor [TS]

01:37:01   who and gets really into the depths of [TS]

01:37:05   the darkness the potential for darkness [TS]

01:37:07   inside the character and it's the only [TS]

01:37:10   it's the kind of story you can only tell [TS]

01:37:13   on your way out there there's nowhere [TS]

01:37:18   for the character go other than to [TS]

01:37:19   regenerate and start over and start and [TS]

01:37:23   start lighter [TS]

01:37:24   so waters of mars is just genius [TS]

01:37:27   television i think from stuff from [TS]

01:37:29   beginning to end everything else in the [TS]

01:37:32   season is light and oh it's light and [TS]

01:37:37   fluffy next doctor and planet of the [TS]

01:37:39   dead [TS]

01:37:40   I don't hate although i don't hate the [TS]

01:37:42   next Doctor Who more than women parsing [TS]

01:37:47   the difficult even more see is is always [TS]

01:37:50   fun to watch it is fun to watch in the [TS]

01:37:51   next Doctor yes yes I yeah that's fun [TS]

01:37:54   next doctor's fun planet of the dead is [TS]

01:37:56   somewhat less fun although i don't hate [TS]

01:37:58   michelle ryan as much as some people to [TS]

01:38:00   ask for the end of time I have a [TS]

01:38:02   reputation among my friends and among [TS]

01:38:04   the Doctor Who podcasting community in [TS]

01:38:07   general as the big defender of the end [TS]

01:38:11   of time and my point [TS]

01:38:12   yeah I'm not so much defending the end [TS]

01:38:14   of time is i am standing against just [TS]

01:38:18   irrational hatred of of the two-parter I [TS]

01:38:21   it is not perfect [TS]

01:38:23   the part where part one is a mess but i [TS]

01:38:27   think part two works more than it [TS]

01:38:29   doesn't work it's I i would agree with [TS]

01:38:33   you that journeys stolen earth and [TS]

01:38:35   journeys and are better than the end of [TS]

01:38:36   time but the things that I like about [TS]

01:38:39   the end of time is our the fact that the [TS]

01:38:44   doctor doesn't want to go the doctor [TS]

01:38:47   rails against it it's entirely [TS]

01:38:49   consistent with the way that the doctor [TS]

01:38:51   has been portrayed by david tennant as [TS]

01:38:54   being too attached to who he is and what [TS]

01:38:56   he does and even though that may seem [TS]

01:38:58   undock Trish and venal and whining of [TS]

01:39:04   him i do like to see him struggling [TS]

01:39:07   against what he wants to do and what he [TS]

01:39:10   must do and I think that that makes his [TS]

01:39:13   sacrifice to will more believable and [TS]

01:39:17   and the best thing about the end of time [TS]

01:39:20   is post regeneration the happy balancing [TS]

01:39:25   music Matt Smith just being light and [TS]

01:39:28   fluffy and glorious it's been spitting [TS]

01:39:31   and spitting and it's it Russell T [TS]

01:39:34   Davies did the best thing possible he [TS]

01:39:37   writes [TS]

01:39:37   the david tennant regenerate scenes and [TS]

01:39:40   then hands the script over to moffitt [TS]

01:39:42   and says you go and Moffat does the [TS]

01:39:44   perfect thing which is we've had a lot [TS]

01:39:46   of angst now let's have some fun let's [TS]

01:39:48   get you excited about seeing this new [TS]

01:39:49   guy [TS]

01:39:50   Erica what do you think of the specials [TS]

01:39:54   um I wasn't I wasn't joking when I said [TS]

01:39:57   I like to just pretend that your knees [TS]

01:39:59   and with that I'd i do agree that waters [TS]

01:40:02   of mars is is excellent in in many ways [TS]

01:40:05   feel for it is is awesome and but [TS]

01:40:09   actually i think i like to feel forward [TS]

01:40:10   stuff on the sarah jane adventures a [TS]

01:40:11   little bit better than this and probably [TS]

01:40:14   just because it's the audience it's [TS]

01:40:16   lighter [TS]

01:40:17   yeah it's yes yes a little bit lighter [TS]

01:40:19   than everybody dying and yeah and the [TS]

01:40:22   people who are saved or shouldn't have [TS]

01:40:24   been saved and one of them kills himself [TS]

01:40:25   and yeah yeah and that I mean that the [TS]

01:40:28   whole suicide thing was that was that [TS]

01:40:30   was definitely way too much for me [TS]

01:40:32   um and way too much for for teatime [TS]

01:40:34   television i thought yeah i agree i [TS]

01:40:36   think the ending is I I guess I get it [TS]

01:40:38   in the story arc but that's not why i [TS]

01:40:40   love it that ending is not why i love it [TS]

01:40:41   i love everything you like the food [TS]

01:40:43   appearing suddenly yeah sudden [TS]

01:40:45   appearances may be prevented through [TS]

01:40:47   proper use of time i like the burden of [TS]

01:40:49   we've seen all the whole premise of [TS]

01:40:52   waters of mars right is is the doctor [TS]

01:40:53   said I can't change everything because [TS]

01:40:55   you know of time and and they're fixed [TS]

01:40:58   points and he reaches a point where he's [TS]

01:41:00   at this base with these people who who [TS]

01:41:02   died they all died and he struggles with [TS]

01:41:06   the idea of you know IA says I gotta get [TS]

01:41:09   out of here and he gets to know them and [TS]

01:41:11   he gets the adventure and then he has to [TS]

01:41:12   remind himself of these people all die [TS]

01:41:14   and then yes he makes the decision i'm [TS]

01:41:16   going to screw it i'm going to save them [TS]

01:41:18   and we'll just see what happens and it [TS]

01:41:20   has horrible consequences but i like [TS]

01:41:22   that because thatthat's it's hard for [TS]

01:41:24   the show that to go that far in like [TS]

01:41:26   chip said you kind of have to be heading [TS]

01:41:28   out the door before you can do that but [TS]

01:41:30   i think just once to say what happens [TS]

01:41:32   when the doctor is in the no-win [TS]

01:41:35   scenario and and then he's and he [TS]

01:41:37   decides to cheat it's very Captain Kirk [TS]

01:41:39   actually it's to cheat at the no-win [TS]

01:41:41   scenario but yeah i do it i still would [TS]

01:41:44   like to pretend you're any sense [TS]

01:41:45   thank you yes oh yes the waters of mars [TS]

01:41:47   this is good and i find it hard to say [TS]

01:41:49   anything bad about 440 [TS]

01:41:51   nice guy i can't remember if I hugged [TS]

01:41:53   him but we did have tequila together so [TS]

01:41:55   there was that I shook his hand [TS]

01:41:56   tvs feel for ya he's wonderful he's [TS]

01:41:59   great but i think i would still throw [TS]

01:42:02   his script here under the bus if it is [TS]

01:42:05   it is it is a dispatch double-decker bus [TS]

01:42:07   in the sand [TS]

01:42:08   yeah exactly that is that is the bus [TS]

01:42:10   that I would toss it under if i could if [TS]

01:42:13   i could also get rid of all three of the [TS]

01:42:15   other specials at the same time that's [TS]

01:42:17   that's the caveat there and yes I'm I'm [TS]

01:42:19   on record as its not liking the end of [TS]

01:42:21   time simply because i love david tennant [TS]

01:42:23   so much he was just I was crushed when [TS]

01:42:25   he was going to leave and I didn't like [TS]

01:42:27   the way that the rtd sent him out [TS]

01:42:29   admitted it turned my knee at the end [TS]

01:42:32   and i just did that really graded on me [TS]

01:42:35   as somebody who really loves the show [TS]

01:42:39   and all of its changes and I do like [TS]

01:42:42   being sad when the doctor leaves but I i [TS]

01:42:44   like being sad and knowing that the [TS]

01:42:47   doctor is ok with it that gives me sort [TS]

01:42:50   of a sense of balance and that [TS]

01:42:52   everything is right with the universe [TS]

01:42:53   and when the doctors not okay with it [TS]

01:42:56   that just that does something to me on a [TS]

01:42:58   very deep emotional level that I'm i'm [TS]

01:43:00   not a right with over the the I don't [TS]

01:43:02   want to go although i think chosen [TS]

01:43:04   because that's rusty was looked at it [TS]

01:43:06   that's my last line i'm going to give [TS]

01:43:08   that I the the moment that it doesn't [TS]

01:43:11   really match with what I think is maybe [TS]

01:43:14   the best line in the whole show which is [TS]

01:43:17   lifted long right where he where he has [TS]

01:43:21   his rating egomaniacal I'm more [TS]

01:43:25   important than anybody i should live [TS]

01:43:27   forever nobody nobody else is life is [TS]

01:43:30   more important than mine and and then [TS]

01:43:33   has the more is like oh yeah I've come [TS]

01:43:35   way too far [TS]

01:43:36   I I this is this i'm out of control here [TS]

01:43:38   and that that's a wonderful moment where [TS]

01:43:40   he says no I need to do this I need to [TS]

01:43:42   sacrifice myself for wealth this is what [TS]

01:43:44   the doctor does it's just can't counter [TS]

01:43:46   you know acted a little bit by other [TS]

01:43:48   want to go at the end it's like that's [TS]

01:43:50   why you're going that's exactly what you [TS]

01:43:52   are have to go swimming after the fact [TS]

01:43:55   finding out what r td's original idea [TS]

01:43:57   had been for four tenants last last [TS]

01:44:01   episode with that it was it was going to [TS]

01:44:03   be his original idea was going to be [TS]

01:44:05   something much more on a smaller scale [TS]

01:44:07   like saving a family on a spaceship [TS]

01:44:09   something very small and intimate and [TS]

01:44:11   they want to hit me where i lived in [TS]

01:44:13   that would have just done it right for [TS]

01:44:14   me and then the story is and I don't [TS]

01:44:16   know if this is true but that Johnson [TS]

01:44:17   said hey you know I'd like to be [TS]

01:44:19   involved so he had to rewrite it to add [TS]

01:44:21   the master and that's sort of where [TS]

01:44:22   everything spiraled into this no giant [TS]

01:44:25   saving the universe you can see it comes [TS]

01:44:27   back the palm again a little short is he [TS]

01:44:31   cares enough to save this one person [TS]

01:44:33   who's gonna be saving these allows [TS]

01:44:34   himself to die and he's ready to die [TS]

01:44:35   then because of the time war but it [TS]

01:44:38   that's that little bit i actually was [TS]

01:44:40   surprised when i watch that was the most [TS]

01:44:41   surprising thing was this is what the [TS]

01:44:43   doctor does but people always take his [TS]

01:44:44   help and he only succeeds and she [TS]

01:44:47   refused his help and so I think there [TS]

01:44:48   may be a little bit of an echo of that [TS]

01:44:49   in there saving one person dying for her [TS]

01:44:53   yeah and I appreciate that he did at [TS]

01:44:55   least made it intimate in the fact that [TS]

01:44:57   you know he it ultimately sacrifices [TS]

01:44:59   himself to save wealth who is one kind [TS]

01:45:01   person I just didn't i didn't like the [TS]

01:45:03   rant the rant eNOS that had to happen [TS]

01:45:05   beforehand that was that that we just [TS]

01:45:07   went it was like fingernails on a [TS]

01:45:10   chalkboard to me and it hurt to watch [TS]

01:45:12   but I think that's I think that was the [TS]

01:45:14   thing that I think it was supposed to I [TS]

01:45:15   think the doctor is something that you [TS]

01:45:17   know we accept that people are not as [TS]

01:45:18   selfless this is the thing i did this [TS]

01:45:20   radio interview once about KY came up it [TS]

01:45:23   was about that was about Doctor Who I [TS]

01:45:24   was always thinking the doctor runs into [TS]

01:45:27   dangerous dangerous recognize the danger [TS]

01:45:28   that's the thing he's you know it's like [TS]

01:45:30   a fireman and there's the the flip side [TS]

01:45:32   of it i was talking to a woman who [TS]

01:45:33   writes about psychological stuff and [TS]

01:45:36   we're talking about the flip side of the [TS]

01:45:37   psychopath in the hero [TS]

01:45:38   those are two sides in literature in a [TS]

01:45:41   good psychological nature of the same [TS]

01:45:42   thing what you don't realize is that the [TS]

01:45:44   selfless hero is a rule-breaker they [TS]

01:45:45   don't confront conventions but we admire [TS]

01:45:48   them we wouldn't mind a psychopath [TS]

01:45:49   because they seem to do something that [TS]

01:45:51   is positive x through self-sacrifice and [TS]

01:45:53   breaking rules a doctor is that [TS]

01:45:55   psychopath bay psychopath for us we got [TS]

01:45:57   to see a little bit of the flip side of [TS]

01:45:59   that in the episode where he rants about [TS]

01:46:02   his own needs for once you know wanting [TS]

01:46:04   recognition all that and then you got it [TS]

01:46:05   under control is that ok ok ok [TS]

01:46:07   wow that was too much [TS]

01:46:10   well and that's another hallmark of the [TS]

01:46:12   russell t davies Sarah as far as the [TS]

01:46:15   doctor is concerned both ecclestone and [TS]

01:46:17   to a greater extent tenants doctors they [TS]

01:46:20   are more human then classic doctor who [TS]

01:46:24   is tended to serve up and that's I [TS]

01:46:31   that's something that I think has [TS]

01:46:33   changed significantly since Steven [TS]

01:46:35   Moffat took over and I think that that [TS]

01:46:38   is something that makes the Russell [TS]

01:46:41   Davis's Doctor Who idiosyncratic I like [TS]

01:46:45   it and I i enjoy his episodes more than [TS]

01:46:50   I enjoy moffatts episodes and that [TS]

01:46:53   perhaps makes me up [TS]

01:46:55   not as real a doctor who fan as a guy [TS]

01:46:57   with process coffee whatever [TS]

01:47:01   no I think I think chip i think i [TS]

01:47:05   completely agree that that his doctors [TS]

01:47:08   are more human and it is idiosyncratic [TS]

01:47:10   and while I don't like watching that [TS]

01:47:13   style of dr. as much as I like the alien [TS]

01:47:15   doctor I still really enjoyed it and I [TS]

01:47:17   wouldn't have it any other way because I [TS]

01:47:19   think if if he had tried to start off [TS]

01:47:21   with a really alien doctor I honestly [TS]

01:47:23   don't know if the show would have [TS]

01:47:24   survived and I think that everything [TS]

01:47:25   that rtd did was with the intent of [TS]

01:47:28   bringing in new audiences and getting [TS]

01:47:30   people to watch and enjoy the show and [TS]

01:47:32   he succeeded and i will bow down and [TS]

01:47:35   kiss his feet if her meet him because he [TS]

01:47:37   did such a great job that we now have [TS]

01:47:39   this show is still going [TS]

01:47:40   that is a perfect way to bring this [TS]

01:47:41   around and in this episode because i [TS]

01:47:44   think when we look at the legacy of of [TS]

01:47:46   the russell t davies here I mean we can [TS]

01:47:47   quibble about some of his choices and [TS]

01:47:49   his operatic endings and maybe the [TS]

01:47:51   specials year was miscalculated although [TS]

01:47:56   i think even then his idea was that he [TS]

01:47:58   didn't want it to go off the air for [TS]

01:47:59   even a moment he wanted to keep it going [TS]

01:48:01   i think I i think that was it i think he [TS]

01:48:04   calculated sometimes to individual [TS]

01:48:08   episodes detriment [TS]

01:48:09   perhaps I ways to make the show [TS]

01:48:12   successful because he really wanted it [TS]

01:48:14   to be successful and and maybe some of [TS]

01:48:17   the choices that we look back and I'm [TS]

01:48:19   like why did that happen was was for [TS]

01:48:21   that reason and i think you you think [TS]

01:48:22   you know [TS]

01:48:23   that that one of the reasons these [TS]

01:48:25   doctors are how they are is they didn't [TS]

01:48:28   have the luxury of making him tom baker [TS]

01:48:30   staring off into the distance and saying [TS]

01:48:31   I walk into eternity right they needed [TS]

01:48:33   people to really attached to these [TS]

01:48:35   people because he was what he wanted [TS]

01:48:37   ratings he wanted Doctor Who to be [TS]

01:48:38   reestablished in people's minds so that [TS]

01:48:40   it wouldn't go away again and he [TS]

01:48:43   succeeded and and so even though we can [TS]

01:48:46   quibble about some of the details i [TS]

01:48:48   think there's no doubt about the fact [TS]

01:48:49   that he succeeded at what his mission [TS]

01:48:51   was which was to firmly establish the [TS]

01:48:53   show and have it be a modern show and [TS]

01:48:56   take something that was considered by a [TS]

01:48:57   lot of people in british television in [TS]

01:49:00   the UK in general to be kind of a [TS]

01:49:02   laughingstock because of it's sort of [TS]

01:49:04   Saturn lower-rated cheap budget latter [TS]

01:49:07   years in the eighties we rightly or [TS]

01:49:10   wrongly but seen as kind of a joke in a [TS]

01:49:12   dead property and firmly reestablish it [TS]

01:49:15   as a cornerstone of british pop culture [TS]

01:49:18   and job done he did it and that i think [TS]

01:49:22   if you have to say anything about this [TS]

01:49:24   era it's that is he was the man tasked [TS]

01:49:26   to bring it back he made a lot of very [TS]

01:49:28   interesting not always obvious decisions [TS]

01:49:31   and it paid off because doctor who is [TS]

01:49:34   here and is firmly established in a way [TS]

01:49:37   that it's hard to even imagine in from [TS]

01:49:39   the vantage point of like the year 2000 [TS]

01:49:41   yeah and I'm some completely Gladys by [TS]

01:49:43   any criticism I have any individual [TS]

01:49:45   episodes or anything it's like on the [TS]

01:49:47   whole it's great there are some terrific [TS]

01:49:49   episodes even some of them except for [TS]

01:49:51   the three worst ones i still watch them [TS]

01:49:53   all I mean it wasn't terrible in the [TS]

01:49:54   doctor's daughter whatever but I watch [TS]

01:49:56   them all and I got something out of you [TS]

01:49:57   know out of all of them it was a little [TS]

01:49:59   bit even this entire episode second and [TS]

01:50:01   tennis ball at tennis ball against the [TS]

01:50:04   back of his neck and uh but he did I [TS]

01:50:07   think you're totally totally right and [TS]

01:50:08   create an enjoyable show it was ripping [TS]

01:50:11   and gripping gripping gripping and full [TS]

01:50:13   of that kind of flipping like horrid [TS]

01:50:15   that the i'm not a big fan of horror [TS]

01:50:17   genre like suspense maybe a little bit [TS]

01:50:19   horror I don't like doctor who is right [TS]

01:50:21   on the edge of the kind of horror that I [TS]

01:50:23   can actually appreciate it and I think [TS]

01:50:25   more so because of the more the better [TS]

01:50:29   cg and realism everything out that [TS]

01:50:31   the appearance of CG and all the realism [TS]

01:50:33   and and just the cinema I think even the [TS]

01:50:34   Senate at a cinematographic approach and [TS]

01:50:36   then he's on saying and so forth they [TS]

01:50:37   they are more effective and conveying [TS]

01:50:40   horror than the earlier seasons which [TS]

01:50:42   were because of the bit of happiness of [TS]

01:50:44   the set to come across as as more fun [TS]

01:50:47   even when the horrors going on going on [TS]

01:50:48   and the new one or more like horror [TS]

01:50:51   films and so even with that I could [TS]

01:50:53   enjoy and it's to create a great a great [TS]

01:50:54   run he set the stage you did a great job [TS]

01:50:57   yeah the if you compare it to the [TS]

01:50:59   Moffett era and boy there's 90 podcast [TS]

01:51:03   you can do about that right there are 90 [TS]

01:51:04   different podcasts out they're releasing [TS]

01:51:06   weekly episodes to comparing the two [TS]

01:51:08   areas so just look for those on itunes [TS]

01:51:10   the i would say the big differences for [TS]

01:51:14   me are ya the portrayal of the doctor is [TS]

01:51:16   different the the approach to the [TS]

01:51:19   scripts as different as we mentioned [TS]

01:51:20   earlier Steven Moffat doesn't do [TS]

01:51:22   cover-to-cover rewrites and I think [TS]

01:51:25   sometimes that allows different quirky [TS]

01:51:27   voices to come out and I think other [TS]

01:51:28   times it shows that they needed more [TS]

01:51:30   work and you know you so it's a little [TS]

01:51:33   more variable in that in in good and bad [TS]

01:51:35   ways what I will say about the Steven [TS]

01:51:37   Moffat era is that I don't know what [TS]

01:51:39   they did when they change production [TS]

01:51:39   teams but the look of the show is much [TS]

01:51:42   better in them in the modern era Michael [TS]

01:51:45   pick what the production production [TS]

01:51:46   production design the that the cinema [TS]

01:51:49   the the cinematography the the not just [TS]

01:51:52   that they went to HD but the the way [TS]

01:51:54   it's shot it is shot like a movie every [TS]

01:51:56   week in an able you see in the first [TS]

01:51:58   frames of the 11th hour it's like hard [TS]

01:52:00   to believe it's the same show and that's [TS]

01:52:02   the only way i'd say that that it feels [TS]

01:52:04   really dated to me looking at the at the [TS]

01:52:06   Russell T Davis area is that it feels [TS]

01:52:08   like a a TV show and the Moffett air [TS]

01:52:13   feels like a movie to me and that's I've [TS]

01:52:15   hard to quantify but I think there's [TS]

01:52:17   something there but script wise it's [TS]

01:52:19   kinda all over the place in them in the [TS]

01:52:20   Mafia and yeah all although the Moffett [TS]

01:52:22   era is just as guilty as the Davis era [TS]

01:52:25   for ending with University yeah it is [TS]

01:52:28   every single every single it's a [TS]

01:52:32   straight line from series 1 all the way [TS]

01:52:34   up to the to the time of the doctor [TS]

01:52:38   the stakes have gotten bigger every [TS]

01:52:41   single time literally yeah saving the [TS]

01:52:44   world or saving the universe has has [TS]

01:52:46   been or are all of time itself or all of [TS]

01:52:50   time itself all universes everywhere [TS]

01:52:53   yes i would really like one of those one [TS]

01:52:55   of those kind of quiet emotional stakes [TS]

01:52:58   where it's about the people and not [TS]

01:52:59   about everything in the entire we are we [TS]

01:53:02   are so far away from the possibility of [TS]

01:53:04   Peter Capaldi even for his last episode [TS]

01:53:08   whenever that is of him dying trying to [TS]

01:53:11   save one family on a spaceship some but [TS]

01:53:13   i will say end of time there was the [TS]

01:53:15   funniest thing was like when can you [TS]

01:53:17   have Rassilon say we're going to destroy [TS]

01:53:20   the entire concept of time and causation [TS]

01:53:22   in existence like this is getting pretty [TS]

01:53:24   abstract like so we was second work if [TS]

01:53:27   there's no I was always likely to call [TS]

01:53:29   you but that's how explain later [TS]

01:53:31   actually better because because it was a [TS]

01:53:33   wonderfully abstract and really weird [TS]

01:53:35   like Phillip philosophy PhD sort of idea [TS]

01:53:38   we're just gonna get rid of causation [TS]

01:53:39   and matter and it'll be great for us not [TS]

01:53:43   for you guys of course not for you guys [TS]

01:53:45   but for us forever but there is no [TS]

01:53:48   forever because x dead in the spirit of [TS]

01:53:50   russell t davies commentary tracks on [TS]

01:53:52   the DVD sets [TS]

01:53:53   hooray we've reached the end i would [TS]

01:53:59   like to thank my guests for for talking [TS]

01:54:01   about watching Doctor Who that happened [TS]

01:54:02   like eight hours ago when we started and [TS]

01:54:04   then about the russell t davies here [TS]

01:54:05   which was a lot admittedly did to bite [TS]

01:54:07   off but i wanted to do it one go and we [TS]

01:54:09   did it we did it we can do this again [TS]

01:54:11   with with the mat smith area sometime [TS]

01:54:13   it's like that it's like the CliffsNotes [TS]

01:54:15   version [TS]

01:54:15   yeah you get us all back again once [TS]

01:54:18   worked the time loop it's a chronic [TS]

01:54:20   hysteresis yeah Usher and and we've [TS]

01:54:23   still got another month and a half [TS]

01:54:24   before Peter Capaldi so it's coming [TS]

01:54:27   he's a common i would like to thank my [TS]

01:54:30   guests for once again geeking out about [TS]

01:54:32   Doctor Who it is a joy chip sudderth [TS]

01:54:35   two-minute Time Lord audio by guide to [TS]

01:54:38   Babylon 5 [TS]

01:54:39   I got any other product that sir is that [TS]

01:54:41   enough [TS]

01:54:42   you know that's enough for now but it [TS]

01:54:44   has been an absolute pleasure to share [TS]

01:54:45   this episode of the two-hour time [TS]

01:54:47   working with you that's right thanks for [TS]

01:54:48   having me on ship I really appreciate it [TS]

01:54:50   Erica and sign thank you so much for [TS]

01:54:53   being back and and I feel like this is [TS]

01:54:55   where we get you back to square one it's [TS]

01:54:57   like we talked about all these other [TS]

01:54:58   things with you and it's like back the [TS]

01:55:00   doctor just three this is this is where [TS]

01:55:02   I shine this is you know if we are [TS]

01:55:04   caught in a chronic hysteresis all you [TS]

01:55:06   have to do is just wagging his tail [TS]

01:55:07   yeah Erica what is it like to be into [TS]

01:55:10   other stuff than doctor who knows it's [TS]

01:55:14   not costing Alex later and Fleischmann [TS]

01:55:18   of course you may know Glenn something [TS]

01:55:21   funny that you might not know about [TS]

01:55:22   Glenn is glenn's and once shared a train [TS]

01:55:25   compartment with Tom Baker's mailman no [TS]

01:55:27   no no but my mother ran into rob reiner [TS]

01:55:31   when he was making stand by me which I [TS]

01:55:33   was almost cast in and she and I wasn't [TS]

01:55:35   cast in the movie and he said that we [TS]

01:55:37   talked about casting good story [TS]

01:55:40   well it's it thank you for being here [TS]

01:55:42   again talking about Doctor Who thanks [TS]

01:55:45   for taking me to a few chapters sure [TS]

01:55:46   where the patterns of the past it's a [TS]

01:55:48   celebrity historical but who's the [TS]

01:55:50   celebrity alright and thanks everybody [TS]

01:55:53   out there for listening we hope that [TS]

01:55:54   we've given you some thoughts about [TS]

01:55:55   Doctor Who that you can take away and [TS]

01:55:57   maybe start watching it or you can just [TS]

01:56:00   yell at your phone about our terrible [TS]

01:56:03   opinions that you disagree with you know [TS]

01:56:05   that's what podcaster for until next [TS]

01:56:07   time on the incomparable this is jason [TS]

01:56:09   still signing off bye [TS]