The Incomparable

00:00:00 ◼   ► the Intolerable number 216 October 2014 [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► welcome back everybody to be [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► uncomfortable podcast I'm your host [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► Jason style and it's going to be another [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► edition of our book club we're going to [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► talk about a bunch of different books in [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► a particular genre I'm hoping this will [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► be a little spoiler light so you can [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► listen maybe find some books you want to [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► read maybe suggest some books to to us [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► although unless you're listening live [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► but we report this here you for a while [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► anyway London urban fantasy is the topic [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► I realize not too long ago that i had [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► read a whole bunch of different books [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► that were set in London that featured [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► magic and I I thought that was really [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► interesting like trend that all of a [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► sudden accidentally although this is [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► although to be fair three of the [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► bookstore by people who run episodes of [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► Doctor Who so maybe that has something [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► to do with it anyway we're going to talk [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► about those books and other books that [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► my panelists have read that are vaguely [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► connected to sort of magic and money in [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► London and urban fantasy i have i have [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► an excellent panel to talk about this [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► with me today [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► Erica and sign is here hello hello good [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► to have you I'm always happy to come and [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► talk about a doctor who writers doing [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► well really anything I was gonna say [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► doctor who related things are happening [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► so I'm plenty of course you would be [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► here because yep that's how it has to [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► work [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► dan Warren is also out there hi dan I [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► Jason how are you thanks for reading [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► that's you know and you sound like my [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► second grade teacher [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► thank you for literacy reading is [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► fundamental then I yes I enjoy it [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► riff and now a very special panelist [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► he's been on the incomparables [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► back-channel mailing list for the very [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► beginning just as he was on the TV [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► dotnet back-channel mailings from the [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► very beginning [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► he's been listening to all of our [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► conversations for more than 200 episodes [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► and has never appeared on a podcast but [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► that changes with this episode it is my [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► friend from back at UCSD David burkhard [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► hi David hi thank you [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► yay you're here finally hear your streak [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► of being just a secret person who [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► was lurking is over you no more looking [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► for you unless you get me out of this in [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► any way that you've heard now from my [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► two panelists what he was never here [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► where should we start I mean I I feel [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► like I want to start with with neil [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► gaiman only because after many many [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► years of it being out there i read i [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► read never wear which I i had to laugh [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► because the wikipedia page 44 never [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► where is it refers to it as a [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► novelization which I know technically it [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► is but it's just very strange i I you [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► know like did you not come to the the [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► show first [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► no I've never seen the show really shows [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► actually kind of fun never liked it yeah [TS]

00:02:56 ◼   ► I said watched it I watched it first and [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► then read the book sometime later and i [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► enjoyed both in very different ways i [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► think i watch the TV show after i had [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► read it and it's it is very good [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► although i think the reason he wrote the [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► book eventually was because some things [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► in the show didn't turn out the way that [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► he wanted them to specifically some of [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► the stuff that's more like special [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► effects heavy well as the eighties right [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► right well then again I mean moving a [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► little grief and you still like old [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► doctor who episode with my question [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► production values you'll probably be [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► fine right all right there and I i [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► should say I've never read any neil [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► gaiman anything [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► people keep telling me that you know [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► these people kept telling me to read [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► trying to meet a bell and deal game and [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► yet so I read some trying to me though [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► they said those people were not to be [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► trusted [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► ok alright that he went in the wrong [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► order their the divine apparently people [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► telling me now people I trust you're [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► telling me I should go to the no game [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► and i downloaded i did download number [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► so we were already off the tractor but [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► what China Mieville did you read because [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► this is the thing is I've read some of [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► the books i love them and I've band and [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► some of his books [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► yeah the perdidos no no no no don't do [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► that is you I obey bad i read three of [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► those oh my god i kind of thought that [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► you know there are some parts of them [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► which are they're very interesting he's [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► a very evocative writer but I couldn't [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► kisame he is the reason i can't stand [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► steampunk it's because of the book is a [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► producer street station i don't like [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► that book [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► all I really literally did put it down [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► about a third of the way through i [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► thought this was terrible and I came to [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► it after several of the other of his [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► books which I'm glad that's the [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► direction I came because I think the [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► city in the city is the advantage from a [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► stick book like george orwell 1984 level [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► of genius book and i really i really [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► like embassy town although not everybody [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► did I really liked him again didn't I [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► did not like it but that's that's the [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► story that's already been covered but I [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► think episode in another episode income [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► but I think we can all agree on the city [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► in the city so you should check it out [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► if you ever want to give China Mieville [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► another shot and in gaming yeah I came [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► to him late i came to him with american [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► gods had never read anything else that [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► he done i never read The Sandman when it [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► came out the comics and I and I never [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► saw them never wear series but i really [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► liked never wear as a book I thought it [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► was really fun this idea that there is [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► and what will hear this again as we [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► talked but there's that there's this [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► upper city of that's the one that sort [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► of people see and then there's the other [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► thriving underground london which is [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► both literally and figuratively [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► underground which is powered by powered [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► by magic and of course we have a regular [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► person who gets sucked into this magic [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► world doesn't even realize that he he's [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► been sucked into it and ends up in a [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► grand adventure with lots of crazy [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► characters including the Marquis which [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► is the doctor who sort of analog [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► character and yeah as a matter of fact [TS]

00:05:53 ◼   ► Patterson Joseph who played the Marquis [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► big Carabosse in the show with rumoured [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► several times to be a final pick for the [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► doctor [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► yeah he's good he's a good actor he's [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► also way he's also a number wang [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► contestant if you like that mitchell and [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► webb look he's he's a number one he [TS]

00:06:09 ◼   ► shows up in jackal to ya-ya and doing a [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► redditor more American accent oh yeah no [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► matter yeah but I i will say i think [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► that this idea of I believe in in every [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► they call London below is resident you [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► know I think there's a reason why you [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► know as Jason point out is read so many [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► books that have to do with urban fantasy [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► in London that's because not only is [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► this a city with thousands of years of [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► history but much of that is literally [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► below it [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► so you have elements of the sort of [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► layered approach of all these cultures [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► that have built on top of other things [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► and sort of there's a rich tapestry [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► there and ending never wear in [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► particular were so many of the [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► characters are are like physical [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► manifestations of places or things in [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► London because London itself if you've [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► ever spent any time there has these [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► evocative names and I can see why Neil [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► Gaiman decided to pull on that for this [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► this story because there's so many [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► things in there that it's just so you [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► know like blackfriars and islington the [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► angel Islington and all this stuff [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► there's all these these fascinating [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► ideas who also is played by the guy who [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► is currently yeah [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► doctor who is true because one of the [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► things i liked a lot about that is is [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► the fact that he's he's pulling from [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► places which are historical places and [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► he's also pulling from like the [TS]

00:07:32 ◼   ► interesting history of the underground [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► where there are so many stops and [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► stations that just aren't used anymore [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► and he i can't remember if they actually [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► shot therefore for when they were [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► filming or a huge was just able to visit [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► when they were doing set scouting and [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► stuff but he was actually able to go to [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► one of these just these platforms [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► underground with you know the trains [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► just sit by they don't actually stop [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► there anymore and it's just this [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► deserted sort of thing and and that kind [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► of of idea always has appealed to me we [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► don't have so much of that in this [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► country or for the country that you guys [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► are in because you know we don't have [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► these here we have that hasn't been [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► years of building up like like when was [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► saying so I i think the idea of finding [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► hidden tunnels and and stuff that people [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► have forgotten for centuries to be just [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► it actually comes up in several of these [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► books and I think it's great you're not [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► to address but it's funny because it [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► does come up in non London urban fantasy [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► like books at New York will be down [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► these huge sewer systems and it's not [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► true that's but it is true in London [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► there really is this huge sewer system [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► and this underground that has a lot of [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► space the ones that isn't mimic the [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► movie that's that that was the plot [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► point is that there's a disused subway [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► station that the bugs have taken over [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► and and it's true actually that [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► the there's a museum for the new york [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► subway that is itself in a disused [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► subway station that's where the museum [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► is you go down into the subway station [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► and that's where there's apparently a [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► couple of those in Boston to they're [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► redoing one of the t stops here and it's [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► built i think it was built on top of an [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► older subway station because those go [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► all the way back to like the [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► eighteen-hundreds what a perfect place [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► to set a story right in this creepy like [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► it's a whole subway platform but there's [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► nothing there and that's great and then [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► I wanted to mention that you mentioned [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► angel Islington the angel Islington such [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► a key figure and never wear and I've [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► been to London I 45 times now and it was [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► not until my last visit only like six [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► months ago I was staying with a friend [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► in the north of London and we were [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► riding the bus and we got off at Angel [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► station in islington and I just started [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► to laugh because i didn't get that joke [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► until that moment and I was like a neil [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► gaiman you can hope because was just an [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► American i didn't get out of everything [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► in that book is kind of like that I mean [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► you've got things like the old bailey [TS]

00:10:00 ◼   ► right like in Westeros court and all [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► this stuff that's like there are places [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► in London and but you know which if [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► again if you probably lived in London [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► you would be immediately recognizing [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► them but many of us don't ya know for me [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► it was how i learned that those were [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► places in London so now when I hear them [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► referred to another british shows i'm [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► not a long being like yep i know that [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► because I never wear thanks neil gaiman [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► he that's a yeah it's good i actually [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► it's funny the the another another uh [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► urban fantasy book that I'll mention [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► later has this it's the same thing it is [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► a whole lengthy bit about the [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► underground the underground there's [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► something amazing about that and i'll [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► mention it now because I don't think dan [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► you read the madness of angels right [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► that I get cake Griffin which was [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► recommended by one of our our listeners [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► on our Goodreads group which is really [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► awesome she was like why are you not [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► mentioning any women writers and i [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► started reading this book i'm not done [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► with it yet but i really like it and one [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► of the funniest things in it makes me [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► you know i'm liking a book when i'm [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► imagining what the movie would look like [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► and like casting and and [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► shooting the movie in my in my mind like [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► wow that would make a great scene [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► there's a great scene where the two [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► characters are on the run from a kind of [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► a shadow monster and they and they get [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► to the underground station and tap their [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► oyster cards on the tap thing to get it [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► through the turnstile and then he reads [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► from the fine print on the back of the [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► oyster card as his spell and basically [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► he says if you don't have a ticket you [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► can't come in and that the shadow [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► monster doesn't have a ticket and [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► therefore is prevented from coming in [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► it's so great I i do like this way I'm [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► more impressed by her as a writer even [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► so when when i was reading them i think [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► i read the first one the year or two [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► after it came out which was in 2009 and [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► she's like she's like 24 something which [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► with that's an amazingly awesome book to [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► write at age 24 has written like a dozen [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► novels or something and it's quite good [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► and it was enough so that like you know [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► reading you know it's just it's an [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► incredibly well drawn world and has [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► these again kind of like never wear all [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► these fascinating links into all these [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► things in London and some of the [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► subsequent books going to other [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► different places there and she comes up [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► with some really clever ideas that seem [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► to fit really well at night now [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► realizing i looked at the wikipedia page [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► since we started talking about this look [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► out there's like three more books in [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► this series i haven't read yeah whoo [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► yeah I think that's always good to find [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► more books that I good books that i [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► haven't yet read now so definitely [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► thanks thanks to i wish i had the name [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► of the person who who sent me the the [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► note to read it because it's because of [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► her that our own Lindsay listener [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► Lyndsey Taylor thank you for [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► recommending that book anything more [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► about never where I'm gonna let you guys [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► talk about whatever their books you want [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► to talk about [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► all right who would like to mention [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► something he would like to talk about [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► something that they've read that falls [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► into this category [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► this is david or jumping on the [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► Horrible's because I don't think you're [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► familiar with that but it's I think it [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► influenced game in a lot of these riders [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► in really being one of the I wanted to [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► say one of the first london urban [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► fantasies although I realize Bram Stoker [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► kind of got there first with Dracula but [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► it's about these a [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► it kids that have turned into Horrible's [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► they get pointy ears and they steal and [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► they get into adventures and they they [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► did the first book they're fighting [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► these things called the rumbles which [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► apparently were based on a beloved [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► children's show in England which had a [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► backlash but fortunately when I read [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► this book and engineer i didn't know [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► that so sure if it had been them [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► attacking Kermit and Miss Piggy wraps [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► and I would have been a little sensitive [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► about it to you but since i don't know [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► these characters but it's it's it's [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► clever its funny and it's to me what was [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► what was striking about it especially [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► reading it for the first time you know [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► was that it was so real I mean you could [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► pull out of map of London and follow [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► exactly the streets they were going on [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► and I didn't realize until I was [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► rereading it recently and actually using [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► the internet and google street maps that [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► he was naming specific places like they [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► were in an old black abandoned locksmith [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► shop and they're really was one on that [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► Street back in the eighties for the [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► seventies when this first book was [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► written but I'm when I also thought was [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► striking about it was just that it was [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► it doesn't have the normal person that [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► finds this world this hidden world it [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► actually just starts with the character [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► of the use of horrible and then the [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► adventures and they get into some [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► several ventures the trilogy that last [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► book actually wasn't published until [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► later because of the the Brixton riots [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► the publisher there's a great letter you [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► can find online where the the publisher [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► decided that it now is not the right [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► climate in London to publish a book that [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► of defiance to the police but i highly [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► recommend that the whole trilogy na i [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► think you'll you would see a lot of [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► threads and a lot of it takes place in a [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► different underground in London that the [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► sewer system so there's a lot of things [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► influence on rivers the rivers of London [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► too because they're they're going along [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► all these underground rivers and I'm [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► exploring that world so I really liked [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► about this is the by michael d.l era by [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► Larry Betty lair by terribly i was i was [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► i'm gonna set our expertise and declare [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► BTW [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► RB 80 I got the letter BTW alright I [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► he's who also has an interesting history [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► if you read his obituary but he yeah i [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► think i think that horrible trilogy i [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► highly recommend that i think especially [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► after having read much of the other ones [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► and coming back to it you see how it [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► influenced and game and certainly [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► acknowledged it i think he was behind a [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► recent I think he was one of the writers [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► really pushing for it to be re-published [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► probably time for a brief break to tell [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► you about our sponsor lynda.com you've [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► heard me tell you about them before ly [TS]

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00:16:28 ◼   ► experts and all of the courses on [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► lynda.com are produced at the very [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► highest quality in their state of the [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► art studios these are not homemade [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► videos on youtube that you found in [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► Scott that coming from somebody's [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► basement it's not like that these are [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► professional videos from the experts [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► every course is broken into bite-sized [TS]

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00:16:55 ◼   ► lynda.com has great tools like [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► searchable transcripts playlist and even [TS]

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00:17:04 ◼   ► profile your professional in the field [TS]

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00:17:21 ◼   ► learn anywhere because lynda.com lets [TS]

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00:17:27 ◼   ► your iPad on an Android device all of [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► those places you can get to linda.com [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► how much does it cost one low monthly [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► price of $25 gives you unlimited access [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► to over 100,000 different video [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► tutorials in the lynda.com [TS]

00:17:42 ◼   ► Mary and if you are a premium member of [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► lynda.com with an annual plan you can [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► download courses to your iPhone iPad or [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► Android device and watch them offline [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► and also download all the project files [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► so you can practice along with the [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► instructor I've learned a lot from [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► lynda.com over the years things about [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► logic to edit this very podcast things [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► about web design to build sites like my [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► side six colors just you know it isn't [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► such a great resource to learn [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► especially technical topics i highly [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► recommend that you check out [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► lynda.com and here's what you need to do [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► I worked out a deal with linda.com to [TS]

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00:18:20 ◼   ► access every course in lynda.com library [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► free for seven days so take seven days [TS]

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00:18:31 ◼   ► learn huge amounts in just seven days by [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► visiting lynda.com / incomparable to try [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► lynda.com free for seven days [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► ly nba.com slash incomparable thank you [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► so much to linda.com for sponsoring the [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► uncomfortable [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► Erica anything you want to throw out [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► there in this category well I guess I i [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► haven't read a ton in this genre or [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► ahead and until i started cramping a [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► podcast yeah um I attend to swing more [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► towards just science fiction and fantasy [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► so but i read it i had read never wear [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► because I came to it as I said through [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► the through the series but earlier this [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► year at the very beginning of the year I [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► went was also cramming actually it seems [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► like urban fantasy in London is it [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► something just cram every time because [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► Paul Cornell's book the severed streets [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► actually came out this year and that was [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► the second in a series of the first one [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► was called London falling and I was [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► going to see Paul at the gala 481 [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► convention this year in February and my [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► podcast co-hosted was going to be [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► interviewing him onstage about his his [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► forthcoming book and the previous book [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► so of course I wanted to go and see that [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► and i haven't read the book yet so i [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► think i'll finish it on the plane on the [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► way to galley [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► got it in which ended up thank goodness [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► being no trouble whatsoever because I [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► didn't want to put it down and really [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► enjoyed it it is it is another one of [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► those those books where you got your [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► regular old London which you know could [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► be our london in our world for all we [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► know and yet there's actually sort of [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► outside of the the eyeline of mortal [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► folk there's a lot of magic happening [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► all the time and never wear it's [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► literally below for the most part [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► whereas here it's just kind of all [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► around us but you can only see it if you [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► have quote-unquote the site or if you're [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► sort of magical somehow and i think that [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► the cool hook of London falling is that [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► you've actually got a team of four kind [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► of police type people you've got a [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► detective a couple of undercover agents [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► and analyst and there are working on a [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► case and they happen to be in this room [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► when something happens near the [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► beginning of the book and that that [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► imbues them all with this site so [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► they're actually able to see the ghosts [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► that are just wandering up and down the [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► streets and you know that the angels and [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► devils and type things that are sitting [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► on people's shoulders and telling them [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► what to do it and all kinds of other [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► fantastical neat stuff like that and and [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► i love that idea that suddenly be [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► somebody gets you know thrown into this [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► world that they didn't know existed [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► that's kind of the heart of the urban [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► fantasy thing at least in all of these [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► books I've read so far but the part that [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► I like the best about this is that [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► you've got these people who are cops and [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► they have this is basically murder [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► mystery going on but it turns out that [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► it's some some supernatural force or [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► creature or person who committed it so [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► they have to use regular old police [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► technique you know the whiteboard and [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► all that kind of stuff because that's [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► really the only weapon that they have [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► they don't have any special powers [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► they're just able to exist in this world [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► and see what's going on so they use you [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► know step-by-step feet on the ground [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► police work to try to to see what they [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► could do against these creatures and I [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► think it's a fascinating way to make the [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► two worlds intersect and it works it [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► works well i think some of the other [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► guys have read it to you know I i read [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► London falling i have heard the seventh [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► streets yet [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► and i really like it's really good i [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► guess i guess that they're calling this [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► the shadow police series but one of the [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► things I really like about about this is [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► you know again this is the like like the [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► been around pitch books that we're gonna [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► talk about to today I'm this is it's [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► about it [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► players like Magical Law Enforcement [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► essentially but with the way it works [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► here is fascinating you alluded to it [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► basically they don't know what they're [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► getting into these are just cops they're [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► investing they're not magic cops they [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► don't start out as magical cops they're [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► not the magic police they're just police [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► and then there's this accident [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► essentially where they're touching [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► something they shouldn't and they're all [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► given the site they suddenly have vision [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► to this entire outer world that they [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► didn't have before and they realize this [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► crime they're investigating as a mom is [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► a much bigger and more magical thing [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► that's happening and that's great in so [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► many different levels because they have [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► to they have to accept that this is true [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► they have to try to adapt their policing [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► skills it into something that's kind of [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► unlike I believe in this book there are [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► a few instances where they thinking like [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► I could punch this person or something [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► like no it's not a person and you can't [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► budge it and and so I really like that [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► it's accidental and that they're not [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► they do sort of end up being the special [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► magic squad but it's not because they I [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► mean it's and so I guess it's sort of an [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► origin story but i really like that they [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► have no idea it was an accident and here [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► they are and i really i really like i [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► really like that about it yeah I like it [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► a lot too and i think i think it works [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► it works as a police procedural even [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► before the magic comes in which i really [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► liked that impressed me but also I like [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► that they didn't have the you know the [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► master of the the sort of tour guide [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► kind of character that that anything i [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► actually in the rivers of London series [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► look there's a little bit of weakness [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► that there's this you know old wizard [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► Nightingale that is connect is very [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► powerful and he keeps happening that to [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► find one of which keeps out to find ways [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► to get him out of the picture [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► all right then and only bring them you [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► know and avoid bringing him in to save [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► the day and [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► that this book it's a lot more [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► interesting to see them kind of trying [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► to piece piece it together like you said [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► like it's it's like the wire with magic [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► that actually leads really well into [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► what I was about to say which was just [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► that I think that that the fact that [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► they're just sort of thrown in [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► feet-first makes it feels like it's a [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► much grittier books in any of the other [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► any of the other but fantasies that I've [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► read thus far and you get some really [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► interesting character development with [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► these people because there are four very [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► different people and they all have two [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► can go through something different in [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► order to deal with the emotional [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► implications of what it is that they are [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► finding out you know but not everybody [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► is going to react quite the same when [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► they discover that there are no giant [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► things roaming the streets that most [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► people can't see that there's a it for [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► these are for really well-drawn [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► characters I mean you u-boat alluded to [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► it I i really like that about it and [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► yeah it is gritty from the start I it's [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► a really great like crime novel and [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► you've got a guy who's undercover and [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► it's a dirty or not dirty and it's [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► really unclear and that's here you're [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► you enter with that right now like oh [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► what's going on what's going to be I [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► thought this was about magic and it's [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► only like again the book almost [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► accidentally obviously not in reality [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► but as you're reading it's like you're [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► literally like you're reading a regular [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► crime novel but then has a little a [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► little mistake happens and then there's [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► magic and it's pretty cool [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► it is and you know like like a lot of [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► good please stories anyway things aren't [TS]

00:25:51 ◼   ► black and white and so these characters [TS]

00:25:53 ◼   ► are trying to deal with their own issues [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► about sort of good and evil whether [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► they're good or not whether we are [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► encountering some true evil and some [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► weirdness [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► yeah and actually the eye without being [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► spoilery about the second book it really [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► carries on very well as far as the [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► character development it's you know [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► there's there's no weird reset button [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► and they're not jumped you know I had so [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► much farther that you miss some of the [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► journey that they've gone on it it it [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► does a good job of sort of picking up [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► and making it clear that these are still [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► the same characters you get get a narc [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► I think last I saw on Twitter he's he [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► was like I think last week 50,000 words [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► into the next book and thought it was [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► going pretty well and Paul is the first [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► person who will tell you and stuff is [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► not going well so that's a good fine [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► that's great [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► I dan would you like to talk about [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► something [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► yeah i think i've already mentioned this [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► series on the show up but it was way way [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► back so i'm going to mention it again [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► because it does fall perfectly into this [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► category and that is Mike carries Felix [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► caster series as I think our co [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► occasional co-panelists Tony similar [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► pointed out in the chatroom mike carey [TS]

00:27:05 ◼   ► probably better known for his comic book [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► writing including Lucifer which is the [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► the character I believe first developed [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► by Neil Gaiman know the name from ya [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► more recently the unwritten written yeah [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► and Jack love about our account a [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► significant Archon hellblazer John [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► Constantine and he's written a bunch of [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► he's written a bunch of other stuff so I [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► think he's written some x-men stuff too [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► so he's quite a talented writer but this [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► is one of the I think his only major [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► novel series he does recently have a [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► novel out under the name mr kerry i [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► think but this is a set in London [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► it's a very very noir series but instead [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► of the main character being a detective [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► he's an exorcist and so basically he's a [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► freelance sex just for higher he goes [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► around and he can get rid of ghosts by [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► playing essentially 18 whistle that is [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► not the only way to get rid of ghosts [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► but Toki does it [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► what I really like about this series is [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► that it does a great job of lining up [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► with sort of your sensibilities fixes [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► always he's called fix he's always kinda [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► down-on-his-luck he was this big shabby [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► overcoat he gets beat up a lot he's not [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► particularly you know tougher or like [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► heroic really but he always seems to [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► find himself in situations where that [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► seems to come up there is an ongoing arc [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► throughout a bunch of the books about [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► one of his his really really good [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► friends who is possessed by a very [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► powerful demon and then some other [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► characters who come in including a [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► succubus [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► and a bunch of interesting other sort of [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► minor characters i think there's a [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► zombie who is also a computer expert who [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► lives in a like very refrigerated think [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► it's like an old movie theater something [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► it's very clever it's exceedingly well [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► written he is just a fantastic writer [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► when it comes to the nuts and bolts of [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► putting language together and some of [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► the books are more hidden hit-or-miss [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► than others but in particular I think [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► the last couple and there are five so [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► far with the promise of a sixth at some [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► indeterminate point feature some of them [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► are just incredibly incredibly [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► imaginative and really really engrossing [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► to the point of you know they're creepy [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► they're super creepy he does a great job [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► of I I don't really like horror books [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► but this is about as close as I'll get [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► and they're so there's some stuff in [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► there that's that's genuinely disturbing [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► and I but all of it is just done with [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► such a deft touch and with the times [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► incredibly dark humor and it's just [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► they're great they're really it's a [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► really good series i cannot recommend it [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► highly enough it's one of my favorite [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► book series from the last you know five [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► or six years and hearing the obvious are [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► googling around as we're like 36 book [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► coming out because i keep hearing rumors [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► about it and it sounds like there might [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► be some indeterminate point future so [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► this has become my new my replacement [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► for Scott Lynch and patrick rothfuss is [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► the white whale of mine i'm waiting for [TS]

00:30:11 ◼   ► this book to come out it will never come [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► out but i'm waiting so I I it sounds [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► like a lot of people in red which is [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► that which is a shame because it's so [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► good i say get the to a bookstore [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► immediately for the devil you know by my [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► carry yeah okay alright that's strong [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► recommendation [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► um let me them throw out another book [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► that I think maybe all of us of Red [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► Rivers London but been around a bitch [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► that's his name [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► yeah which apparently is called midnight [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► riot in the US which seems totally wrong [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► I don't understand that makes no more [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► sense to me than the actual title in [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► fact the capital is quite a bit better [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► so I don't really [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► it passed well I i can tell i can tell [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► you why I think they did it because I [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► was stupid Americans like you know [TS]

00:30:58 ◼   ► action and fighting and stuff and rivers [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► of London first of all that's foreign [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► Americans don't always take kindly to [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► that and then you also you know there is [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► a scene that's the riot sort of thing in [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► the book like us just one whereas you [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► actually have rivers of London kind of [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► throughout the book yes that's a much [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► better to i was i was just kind of [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► incensed by that so it got really mad [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► there's controversy about the cover too [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► because they give this you know black [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► man and shadow holding a gun and the [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► beginning so what exactly have you left [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► but by the way you know the constables [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► do not carry go yeah i was going to say [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► I I didn't see the cover because i read [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► it as a kindle book but that is [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► hilarious [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► yeah that is a terrible the original [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► cover you can see his face and see that [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► he was a black them but they did this [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► like silhouette and it just I'm just I'm [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► so amused by the carrying of a gun when [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► most British British police officers to [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► carry it so here so an image doing [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► research on midnight riot on google and [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► you will be irritated yeah so uh so [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► David alluded to it here which is this [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► this is a this is a story about a [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► different way that this gets set up [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► right this is this is about how there's [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► basically like there's basically no [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► magic or at least we think there's no [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► magic and then there's this guy Peter [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► Grant who who who meets a ghost and has [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► uh has magical ability and he basically [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► gets taken under the wing of an old like [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► that you get the sense like one of the [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► last old Wizards who is really grumpy [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► and basically says i'm gonna i'm going [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► to teach you about magic stuff and i'm [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► going to open this world to you so [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► unlike the the paul cornell book where [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► the people just sort of have to learn [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► about it when there's this accident here [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► he's being let in on a secret but what I [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► like about it is it's not quite harry [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► potter where he's led him on an active [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► world that he's now a part of its more [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► like he's stumbling in and the party's [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► over and and he's now this oddity where [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► he's like the last guy left is still [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► there and he's like our [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► and I guess I'll pass this to you now [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► and I thought that was really cool and [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► then there's also the dynamic of he's a [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► he's a young black detective and are [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► blatant black policeman and then there's [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► this old white man and so you know he's [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► dealing with [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► he's dealing with their race issues in [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► the women in the city and the police [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► department [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► it's a it's a fascinating a rich set up [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► where and you really read for the guy [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► also because he's bringing modernity [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► into this old building that they have [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► that the musty old building with the [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► kind of undead cook who lives there and [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► electronics don't work in the building [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► so we end up living in the horse stable [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► which is a garage and he's got his TV [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► out their home [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► it's just I love the setting of this [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► that because it's done that way and [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► you're right you do have this figure who [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► knows everything and can and and he gets [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► taken he gets put in the hospital in one [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► book i think and he's like he's taken [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► off the board in many times so that so [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► that peter grant doesn't know what he [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► has to do but what I really liked i [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► really like this setting and then you [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► know it is it is a cop story this is all [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► detectives and and medical investigators [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► and I'll i really like that about it [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► that again we're really i mean really it [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► is the magic cops this is like literally [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► he's discovered that there were magic [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► cops and he might become the the last [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► magic cop [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► yeah it's interesting because he comes [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► into you know an institution that [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► already exists which is different for [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► the shadow Canyon and i like that you [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► know they are using hard-boiled police [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► methods to try to track down mystical [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► killers he is starting to learn magic [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► and you know bringing that in he's [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► actually applying scientific principles [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► to the study of magic figure it out as [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► much as he can and i think i really like [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► that aspect of the book because I as a [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► reader i'm very curious about we know [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► how does this magic work but what makes [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► it tick so I like the fact that this [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► main character who the books is actually [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► in first person so it's told [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► specifically from the point of view of [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► peter grant so I like the fact that we [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► get in his head and and that he has a [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► lot of the same curiosity that I do [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► as a reader because that's exactly what [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► i would do and that he's and he's a [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► giant nerd too i mean that's the case [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► like this like there's all these [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► references to pop culture things I i [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► love that if there is a later book which [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► involves some stuff happening literally [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► underground and he makes multiple [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► references to these particular magical [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► beings he encounters as being [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► earthbenders which isn't avatar the last [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► airbender veterans and I was like this [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► is amazing [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► you pick these indirect us and there's [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► harry potter references i feel like in [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► among other things that are kind of like [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► top because that is that is how you [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► would deal with it right if you were [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► like if you existed in our world and you [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► encountered this stuff that was [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► otherworldly the only way you would sort [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► of be able to wrap your mind around it [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► was like okay I guess this is kind of [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► like these fantasy books that I liked [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► and in that sense Peter it makes Peter [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► incredibly approachable and incredibly [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► you feel very sympathetic to him because [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► you're you're sort of processing [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► everything the same way that he is and [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► maybe it's to be expected but I lost [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► track of how many doctor who references [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► their work is red i am in the middle [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► yeah fifth book right now fourth book [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► whichever is the most recent one the [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► analytic with fifth one is out yeah [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► that's one that comes out in January ok [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► so in the middle of the fourth book [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► right now and there's a Linda with a [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► wide Joe click that's how deep that so [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► deepest doctor who cuts are well that's [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► so deep I don't even get it it's from [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► one episode yeah it's it's a very little [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► very specific reference David go ahead [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► what you're going to say I was gonna see [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► I mean he's got a great voice to and he [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► he's a probationary please constable the [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► beginning so he's he's still trying to [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► make his way in the police force and [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► then now he's got this new wrinkle of [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► trying to figure out this this magic [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► which hurting hurts his career [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► essentially right because you can have [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► on this crappy magic the guy no heat [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► he didn't really think he was destined [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► for greatness but i think it's um it's a [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► really funny book 2 i'm going to [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► actually laugh-out-loud funny sometimes [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► so I think it's very enjoyable the only [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► thing that worries me about it is it is [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► i'm ready to fall into that trap like [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► you know true blood you know where it's [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► you know sort of like oh this time it's [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► a big Estella meet the werewolf now it's [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► happening still met the mummy [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► you know it's it's it is exploring this [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► magical world and i think that the river [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► part is so unique and actually think [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► they did a good job with the vampires [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► that which there's a reference yes the [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► Empire's they're not central but i just [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► want i'm hoping that they don't go down [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► the road you know that he doesn't get on [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► a road of having him constantly you know [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► finding oh yeah and actually fairies are [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► real and werewolves are real just went [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► out for his world so I was fine ass [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► comment I know Erika said she's part way [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► through the fourth book is to have two [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► other people read most of the series all [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► this you can only read the first two [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► okay i won't say yes I've read all for [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► the first four and i will say that the [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► there the overarching plot that sort of [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► like goes through them gets stronger and [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► stronger and you know without giving [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► away too much [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► there's some major stuff it's part of [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► the end of the reason but really stick [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► with it stay with it gets it gets [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► interesting [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► it's worth it's definitely we're [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► sticking with it because its stories [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► yeah there's some really good stuff is [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► really good characters yeah i mean you [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► mention the rivers I mean rivers London [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► that one of the things I really like [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► about this setting to is that unless we [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► talked about the underground and things [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► like that here the geography of London [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► is definitely a character and is [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► relevant but it's relevant in a [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► different way in the sense that the [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► magic is all based on the geography so [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► the rivers the there are there the gods [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► of the rivers of London our powers and [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► in fact there's a great scene in the [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► first book where they flee the city and [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► it's like once they're out of the city [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► they're safe they until they go back in [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► the city and they're not safe again [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► because the power doesn't extend beyond [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► the city and in fact different parts of [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► the city are ruled by different you know [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► beings that have these elemental powers [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► that spring from and it's nice because [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► it brings from the history of before [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► there was even a city here there were [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► these elemental beings with that were in [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► the rivers and in the trees and whatever [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► and I really like that I thought that [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► was an interesting spin on it that's [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► that's kind of where a lot of this magic [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► comes from and and you know you've got [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► these these kind of bosses are like mob [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► bosses of magic but that their turf is [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► their turf because of the geography not [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► they haven't staked out the geography [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► they literally like are the geography [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► that's their turf I think that's a [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► really cool spin on it [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► yeah I noticed he spends a lot of time [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► describing more than any of these other [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► books describing the the geography in [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► the streets in the layout and stuff and [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► and also the architecture there's more [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► description of buildings and room and [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► then I think in any other book I've ever [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► read that it actually wasn't what you [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► think of the Horrible's because like the [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► Horrible's I this book be pulling a map [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► of London and even historical maps of [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► London and I love map so it's rather [TS]

00:40:15 ◼   ► look at map of London than a map of [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► middle-earth so I like the fact that the [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► real places you can look up [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► yeah I I had a dog um I think this [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► actually gets reused a reuse i think in [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► one of the books there's a description [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► of a playhouse that is basically a fake [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► house that's like this is the third book [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► yeah but it's also used in the most [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► recent sherlock series there's this [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► yeah I where there's like the fake [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► houses that have the facades but are [TS]

00:40:42 ◼   ► sort of basically built over you the [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► underground essentially but that was [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► really cool i don't know I remember when [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► I got to that part of your life as a [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► couple i know about these things I read [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► about the minute book I did exactly the [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► opposite because I'd already seen that [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► Sherlock by the time i read the book and [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► I was like oh I have a picture of this [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► in my head now because I know what [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► cool i like this series a lot this is so [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► we should say we we we mentioned this [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► before but we should say it so been [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► around a bitch was the script editor of [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► Doctor Who I think that briefly was he [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► was he not in the eighties worked he was [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► not the script editor but he worked [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► closely with andrew Cartmell right [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► Hartnell master plan yeah which [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► apparently been around which had a lot [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► lot to do with even though there was no [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► actual master plan so I so well but and [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► that's for dr. pockets been around [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► virginia where he wrote the 25th [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► anniversary episode of doctor who [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► essentially he did not the 25th [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► anniversary episode sucked [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► he wrote remembrance of the Daleks which [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► should have been the 25th anniversary [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► episode it would have worked much better [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► with silver nemesis consider the 25th [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► anniversary of yeah it is it had the you [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► know that the budget in the fanfare [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► sorry doctor who talk but I don't even [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► think of that is that because because [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► because remembrance of the Daleks which [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► is considered actually one of the [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► highlights of the last 15 years of the [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► show 10 years of the show [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► oh yeah [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► is set at the place where the first [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► episode is set of Doctor Who and it's in [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► this 25th anniversary season and it's [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► got the Daleks in it and it's very much [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► a nostalgic referential episode 2 1963 [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► better and better on this road that so [TS]

00:42:15 ◼   ► so he comes from and where is Paul [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► Cornell was a fan and then wrote a bunch [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► of novels and then wrote a bunch of [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► episodes in the russell t davies Sarah [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► of the new series but these are both [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► novels that we've talked about and then [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► Neil Gaiman you know has written some [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► stuff during the Stephen montara so [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► there's a lot of Doctor Who going around [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► in here actually wanted to bring up like [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► just a little connection with the in [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► addition to remember the Daleks he also [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► wrote battle battlefield but i'm pretty [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► sure it's in remembrance of the Daleks [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► that you actually get something was kind [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► of interesting for doctor who at the [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► time which was bringing race relations [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► into it a little bit and having some you [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► know a couple of scenes to do with black [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► characters and the write-up how [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► somewhere where they were you know said [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► no coloreds on the the door on the [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► outside it the doctors companion got all [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► upset so I thought it was very [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► interesting that you know one of the few [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► writers to really bring that to the four [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► back in the eighties and doctor who then [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► has this series of books that actually [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► has a black main character and you know [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► you you see the world from their point [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► of view and get get a little bit of how [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► how Leonard has changed since 1963 and [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► and how in some cases maybe it hasn't [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► am i right in remembering actually that [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► he's half black and half white [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► I think his father's white he always [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► have like in half [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► I don't remember what it was because his [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► mother is actually African in the but [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► his dad's I thought she had lost in his [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► dad's a jazz musician from me I funny i [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► think is why you I think he's described [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► as half black and half white yeah [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► interesting because I I thought that [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► came up as an issue [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► yeah i thought it came up as an issue [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► and you know like in terms of again the [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► race relations being interesting part of [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► this like even has it a little tougher [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► in some cases because that you know [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► consider being a mixed heritage is is [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► very challenging there so I always [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► thought that was an interesting an [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► interesting aspect of his carrier it's [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► definitely a big part of the flavor of [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► the books and one of the things i like [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► about the second book is the you know [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► the fact that it's I mean it's like the [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► mystery of the Jazz vampires [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► his sort of could have been the title of [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► it which is hilarious and yet it's you [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► know as silly as that sounds it's really [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► cool and it's a really fun story and and [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► i like how the universe expands this is [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► one of those things where you can't wait [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► to read the first book in the series you [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► don't know whether the universe is going [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► to expand or whether [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► what-you-see-is-what-you-get and it's [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► gonna be like this from here on out and [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► with this series you know in the first [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► book you get there's this old guy and [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► he's the last wizard left so he's going [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► to teach you and the second book they go [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► visit another guy and they visit [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► essentially a place that's like it was [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► Hogwarts but now it's empty and nobody's [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► been there since what like since world [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► war two and you get the sense that [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► there's a really awful history about why [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► there aren't any Wizards anymore and [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► that's amazing that blew me away because [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► it's like oh this is what i thought this [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► is a much bigger story about why the the [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► magicians are absent and then there's [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► that follow-up that you know you you let [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► you learn that maybe they're not absent [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► and that's really great too so it's a [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► it's a great it's a great way with the [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► universe expands over time as the books [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► go along and i really like some of the [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► secondary characters that they bring [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► into I mean like you know you've got [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► Molly who is nightingales us [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► I don't even know what that says keep on [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► a semi undead to marry the house and I [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► my favorite character who is actually [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► the the doctor that they call on who is [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► basically like just really interested in [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► how magic affects people i think he's [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► described as being he's of it you know [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► Arabic descent Arabian descent but he's [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► Scottish i believe [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► yeah it's just such a great i mean again [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► sort of playing with all these different [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► like it's just you know this is this is [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► the how things go and I just I really [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► enjoy their interactions that the this a [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► magic set up reminded me a little bit of [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► Jonathan strange and mr morale i don't [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► know if you guys have read that by Susan [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► Clark really good book i think we [TS]

00:46:07 ◼   ► mention that on a book club too and [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► they're making a TV mini-series out of [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► that I believe but um but that's a that [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► that's set in the past that setting the [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► 19th century but but it reminds me of [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► this in the sense that there's this [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► question like well what there was magic [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► did it go [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► way is it still there is a coming back [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► it had a little bit of that feel to it [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► but in the modern modern day and that [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► book so they're actually making TV [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► series out of rivers of 12 I think it's [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► the same people that are making the [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► other TV series i think the two options [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► I'm a little nervous about how this is [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► going to work as a TV series i hope it [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► doesn't you know that they do it well [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► they're gonna have to recast it well to [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► keep that cleverness and not just become [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► another you know doctor who like gonna [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► show so the guy who wrote the most [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► recent most recent episode of doctor who [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► is the guy who is adapting it o.o he [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► wrote it down or kill the moon [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► yeah the guy roadkill the moon is [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► actually the guy who who is doing the [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► writing of the TV adaptation and Toby [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► Haynes is a doctor who director is [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► directing it will be interesting to me [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► yeah okay now I'm secret that i didn't [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► know wow that was some pretty obscure [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► nerding out yes that is a good director [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► he is it gonna look even more than a [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► little dreamy i will not enough fair [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► enough [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► I yeah so if you wonder if you like your [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► directors dreamy dots on experience and [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► mr. good [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► yes and good and he's a very good [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► director um actually i want to mention [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► the the the neuronic series with that [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► setup of the there is an institution [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► that magic is involved with i'm reminded [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► me of another book that we've covered on [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► the show but i wanted to mention again [TS]

00:47:47 ◼   ► because it's so good [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► which is the rook by Daniel O'Malley [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► which is similarly a book set in London [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► involving a minute a magical agency this [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► one staffed up it doesn't have empty you [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► know empty buildings that used to be [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► where they talk train people [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► this one's fully staffed but that's a [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► that's a fantastic book about the [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► magical bureaucracy that is like the [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► layer below the actual burger ah cracy [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► in London and if anybody out there [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► hasn't read the brook you got to read [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► the book is one of the most fun books [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► that i read in the last 10 years [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► probably [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► man I'm coming away with this with will [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► take away more homework for this but you [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► don't have to cram this stuff because we [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► are not talking about it on the podcast [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► you just get your ledger [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► you can read but the ruckus so good so [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► good speaking of i see how the [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► the rivers of London universe sort of [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► opened up a little bit with some of this [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► magical police back story without giving [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► too much away mostly because I can't [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► because I don't know yet that actually [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► happens in the shadow police a little [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► bit to you find out that there might [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► have been some some previous law [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► enforcement that was somehow related to [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► the magical realms in London but even by [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► the end of the second book I i still [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► don't have a clear picture that which is [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► one of the reasons i'm really excited [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► for the third book to count [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► yeah I like that sense that you know [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► this been i mean that's that's one of [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► the things about magic but that I think [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► you get that you don't science fiction [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► stories often it's like this the first [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► time this has ever happened what are we [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► going to do and magic stories it's very [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► much like this has all happened before [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► right [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► it's like you you only discovered it now [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► but these are ancient powers that you [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► are you only only know you people are [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► realizing are still around and it gives [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► you that just like knowing that there [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► are subway stations that are in the [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► ground unused having that idea like [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► there is knowledge from the past that's [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► only now being on earth because it's [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► just add that little creepy like whoo [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► it's exciting when rivers of one also [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► has that great the Nazis were doing this [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► 20 yeah you're trying to do this and [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► they haven't they haven't fully explored [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► that story which i think is really kind [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► of brilliant that the every book just [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► reveals a little bit more about what [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► happened world war two and what impact [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► that had on the magical world [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► yeah like there's a magic manhattan [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► project almost and a magic arms race and [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► it was devastating [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► apparently which is this is the [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► aftermath that Peter Grant walks into [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► which is just really it's very cool [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► stuff [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► let's take another brief break for a [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► visit from sponsor you know these guys [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► but they've got big news [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► our sponsor is Squarespace now people on [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► podcasts been talking about Squarespace [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► for a while but big stuff is happening [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► Squarespace just came out with a [TS]

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00:50:24 ◼   ► Squarespace seven and it makes [TS]

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00:50:31 ◼   ► of the squarespace platform that you [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► already know and love [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► Squarespace seven refines all the [TS]

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00:51:02 ◼   ► smell sent me i like that that's like a [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► secret agent code a really bad one [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► because it reveals my name but let's say [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► my name is code named smell sent me is [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► your offer code for ten percent off and [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► a free trial some great new features and [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► Squarespace seven like cover pages [TS]

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00:51:24 ◼   ► i know you're listening famous rock [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► stars with cover pages you get all the [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► power Squarespace on a single beautiful [TS]

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00:52:24 ◼   ► code Snell sent me to get ten percent [TS]

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00:52:28 ◼   ► incomparable so thank you very much to [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► squarespace for your continued support [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► of podcasting and the uncomfortable [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► Squarespace a better web starts with [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► your website [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► what other what other one other stuff [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► you guys have any any other books in [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► this category that you want to throw out [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► there and i recommend think I think I [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► already recommend and no I might be kind [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► of a digression but the go for man i [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► recommended a couple weeks ago I think [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► my urban turban fancy book that i read [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► this hot actually said in London but in [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► Chicago [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► that's pretty much the same not let Cole [TS]

00:53:02 ◼   ► the iron but it's a regular in that it's [TS]

00:53:05 ◼   ► an urban fantasy and it's it's deals [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► with a you know detective whose me is [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► also in this case a ferry from the you [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► know the Fae realms solving crime that's [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► magical reloaded so we give that another [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► another nut job because I thought the [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► first one was really good and I think [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► there's a couple more books coming in [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► that series nice yeah if we're going to [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► forget a stray a little bit i will have [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► to mention 10 powers declare which part [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► of it takes place in London so I think [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► it counts but it's a it's if you don't [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► have any of you have read that but it's [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► a no like a lock are a book it's one of [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► my all-time favorite books actually [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► because especially since i came to it [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► after i was reading all these spy books [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► and then you read this one and it [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► actually every the characters in her [TS]

00:53:53 ◼   ► real are actually in the place that they [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► were that day in history he does helpful [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► but at the same time he's got all this [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► crazy explanations of the whole Cold War [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► struggle is actually being around genies [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► in Arabia so i recommend that one and it [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► does have you know some of the the kind [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► of London the car a kind of stuff so [TS]

00:54:19 ◼   ► what was the name is category declare [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► declared by 10 powers you probably heard [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► of oh yeah after is in yeah that [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► actually you mentioned Jeannie i'll [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► throw out another appt look we talk [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► about four episodes of The Golem and the [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► genie by Helene Wecker that is set in [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► New York and is very much a an immigrant [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► story but just as the syrian immigrants [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► and the Jewish immigrants come to New [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► York so too does golem and a genie and [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► then the fun begins [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► and it's a really awesome book we've got [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► we've got a little bit more time so [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► which is rare for us so before we go I [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► thought I would go around and ask that [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► same question which I always phrases [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► what are you reading but it's really [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► like what have you read lately has been [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► something that you've read lately [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► other than what we talked about tonight [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► that you want to plug you want to throw [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► out there some book that you've been [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► reading that that you in general that [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► any subject that you think would be [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► worth talking about dan got anything [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► yeah I in fact I'd forgotten that i was [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► reading this [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► cuz i put it down to read the UH the [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► experience and then what you get for [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► before five hundred folks is a 500-page [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► books later I was like oh yeah i was [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► reading this before [TS]

00:55:25 ◼   ► yeah which is the the latest book by [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► Nick Harkaway called tigerman oh yeah [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► man I i love Nick Harkaway i really i [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► really do love Day card way although [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► i've been following its slow descent [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► into madness on twitter because I think [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► his wife left him with their kids if [TS]

00:55:41 ◼   ► it's like it's very tech yeah poor guy i [TS]

00:55:44 ◼   ► offered to send a beer whiskey and he [TS]

00:55:46 ◼   ► politely declined so his most recent [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► book is Tiger man i specifically avoided [TS]

00:55:53 ◼   ► reading anything about it beforehand [TS]

00:55:56 ◼   ► including even the jacket copy when i [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► bought a hardcover version of the book [TS]

00:56:00 ◼   ► and so I as a result i'm not really sure [TS]

00:56:03 ◼   ► how to describe it other than to say [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► like any of his books it is incredibly [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► it is incredibly esoteric it is unique [TS]

00:56:12 ◼   ► I cannot think of another book that [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► approach this way that all I will say is [TS]

00:56:15 ◼   ► that it involves science fiction [TS]

00:56:18 ◼   ► superheroes intrigue and a small island [TS]

00:56:24 ◼   ► somewhere in i think the Indian Ocean it [TS]

00:56:29 ◼   ► is a fascinating book it is kind of [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► heartbreaking but it is definitely a [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► good read I've enjoyed every book that i [TS]

00:56:37 ◼   ► have read by him and I honestly have a [TS]

00:56:40 ◼   ► hard time coming up with an author who [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► writes stuff that is more just flat-out [TS]

00:56:44 ◼   ► original and it's quite funny at times i [TS]

00:56:48 ◼   ► found myself laughing aloud and reading [TS]

00:56:50 ◼   ► passages to other people as i went and [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► it's it's just it's delightful but he [TS]

00:56:55 ◼   ► and he's that's John lockers kid [TS]

00:56:58 ◼   ► indeed and the Garnier world is a angel [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► maker both books i really like they're [TS]

00:57:03 ◼   ► both so bizarre so I just this is very [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► much in that very realm it set is said [TS]

00:57:08 ◼   ► in the modern day but it is a slightly [TS]

00:57:11 ◼   ► slightly distorted version are modeled a [TS]

00:57:14 ◼   ► ok David you have anything you've read [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► lately you want to recommend well [TS]

00:57:18 ◼   ► tomorrow's my 10th wedding anniversary [TS]

00:57:20 ◼   ► so incredible inventions perfect time to [TS]

00:57:22 ◼   ► read gone girl [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► I read that 20th wedding anniversary [TS]

00:57:27 ◼   ► trip with my wife and it doesn't know [TS]

00:57:29 ◼   ► romantic been gone girl [TS]

00:57:31 ◼   ► yeah so is I think you made a joke about [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► that a couple podcast ago and I had [TS]

00:57:34 ◼   ► already finished reading it I thought it [TS]

00:57:36 ◼   ► was pretty funny but i but I knew there [TS]

00:57:38 ◼   ► was no way I was going to get spoiled [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► for me with the movie coming out so i [TS]

00:57:42 ◼   ► had to rehabilitate know for a while so [TS]

00:57:44 ◼   ► i had to get it done and i also did was [TS]

00:57:46 ◼   ► just reading a history black count which [TS]

00:57:49 ◼   ► is about Alexander Dumas father who was [TS]

00:57:52 ◼   ► a who was actually a slave in the West [TS]

00:57:55 ◼   ► Indies at one point and mixed-race and [TS]

00:57:59 ◼   ► then ended up in France and all these [TS]

00:58:00 ◼   ► adventures that actually actually [TS]

00:58:03 ◼   ► influence to Mars books like kind of [TS]

00:58:05 ◼   ► money Christo and three musketeers alive [TS]

00:58:07 ◼   ► so that was a kind of fun read for for a [TS]

00:58:10 ◼   ► non-fictional history and girls one of [TS]

00:58:12 ◼   ► those books and I did say this couple [TS]

00:58:14 ◼   ► episodes ago that that everybody talks [TS]

00:58:16 ◼   ► about and everybody's reading about you [TS]

00:58:18 ◼   ► know I can give it an endorsement it's a [TS]

00:58:20 ◼   ► really good book it is not its people [TS]

00:58:22 ◼   ► are not reading it because they may be [TS]

00:58:24 ◼   ► reading it because everybody's reading [TS]

00:58:25 ◼   ► it but it's a good book it's I enjoyed a [TS]

00:58:27 ◼   ► lot although it is it is a kind of dark [TS]

00:58:30 ◼   ► yeah and it surprised me which doesn't [TS]

00:58:32 ◼   ► happen very often [TS]

00:58:33 ◼   ► yes yes I didn't know where it was going [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► at several points which is good [TS]

00:58:38 ◼   ► Erica what other than cramming for this [TS]

00:58:41 ◼   ► any other books that you like to [TS]

00:58:42 ◼   ► recommend yeah i have i've actually been [TS]

00:58:45 ◼   ► thinking over just the past few months [TS]

00:58:47 ◼   ► reading but i think i've read more in [TS]

00:58:49 ◼   ► the last two months and i have in the [TS]

00:58:50 ◼   ► past like six years probably in part [TS]

00:58:54 ◼   ► because I got a Kindle paperwhite for my [TS]

00:58:56 ◼   ► birthday in June so it makes it so much [TS]