The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► I'm worried because I feel like when every run the show we always going by [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► far the longest guests like my feeling we could go back if we ever need to do [TS]

00:00:08 ◼   ► like a charity target on me and you would be over 12 hours and then this [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► time we actually have a lot to talk so I'm a little concerned but well maybe [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► not part of it did you hear we don't talk anymore that you got to me and that [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► somehow it with the specifics are are kind of vague as to how how you got to [TS]

00:00:31 ◼   ► me and what that means but somehow you got to me and we don't talk anymore [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► has valuable said that have been further speculation though there were on the out [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► oh my god I mean [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► fortunately it's it's died down the last few days I think people are finally [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► moved on from the peace saga which is good you know has a very short attention [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► span and that that is both a blessing and a curse it is it is definitely a [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► blessing when you are on the receiving end of it so that is nice but yeah I [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► heard I i read and got emailed and heard lots of interesting theories about the [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► conspiracy between you and I or that that you got to me or paid me off [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► because people couldn't possibly believe that the story was what I said it was [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► that I didn't want to be in this business after all so I exited it right [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► you told this story on your podcast ATP [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► what is now the last episode I'm guessing you coming out tomorrow but the [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► today already out well I have no license so you can stop me of which are covered [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► some stuff but last week said this already covered the peace then your more [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► or less long very very long story very short is that what you were out as [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► always is exactly the truth you you are one of the most almost painfully honest [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► people I have ever met like when you you almost can't even bring yourself [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► to tell like white lies you know I mean if you go through something like this [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► and then you explain yourself in public during what you say is the honest to god [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► truth so it's very funny that everybody would just assume that it could be [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► something else and I depart the part of the story that is the best was that that [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► you know people who listen ATP last week know this that you get it was last [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► thursday was a Friday I don't know what day of the week it was but I was at the [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► dentist was waiting to go and you texted me in your like I think I'm gonna pull [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► piece from the App Store and I texted dude I don't do it don't be rash wait [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► wait on out of the darkness and I got home and it was already pulled from the [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► App Store and it was there I literally you did not you know poll a lot of [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► people you kind of made it obviously you've made up your mind because you [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► know I told you not to do it we will get to I will explain why I thought you [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► shouldn't do it but it did amused me greatly though then afterwards when I [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► did notice immediately afterwards there are an awful lot of people who assume [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► that it was pressure from me [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► somebody's somebody said that it was like that may include all showed up with [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► baseball bat that I would love to see that it's especially fun because I was [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► literally just hang out with you include all like four days earlier [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► yeah it was also heard I really need to people I heard people people thought [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► that Apple paid me off which is the funniest i think is like I was making [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► money you know promoting their platform doing everything they wanted me to do it [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► and it wasn't also it also wasn't one of those things like today [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► view widgets right where they say okay now over here in this today's green on [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► my website called it doesn't matter whatever you know what you can to get [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► you can put a widget in there and when they first open this out there were [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► people who made things that did things that were [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► were creatively outside the purview of what they expected people to to make and [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► then you know I think one of the ones it was an early victim of this was a peek [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► out the calculator [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► computation of that was more than they kind of I think they envisioned it is [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► more just like a status [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► the weather whatever and when people were actually doing real things over [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► there [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► Apple you know this isn't that it wasn't like they were breaking into wasn't [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► using prove private API they were using a public API is in ways that Apple [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► didn't vision for peace was not like late you you use of the content blocking [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► abyei's in a way that they didn't envision it was almost like right down [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► the middle [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► the canonical this is exactly the sort of thing that they envisioned would be [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► made [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► yeah I mean I got a couple of responses here and there from inside of apple and [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► they were all extremely positive they they did they definitely did not want to [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► pull from the App Store as far as you know based on the implication that they [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► would have hated it for some reason like I mean you know they're they're not very [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► generous with their communication but it sure seemed like people and Apple are [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► big fans of it and I pulled it and place the burden on them to try to issue of [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► these refunds first manually and then eventually admitted that batch thing [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► that could have been pleasant for them either [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► and certainly could have been cheap to have to process refunds and and you know [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► just the manpower alone of president's refunds was was going to be probably [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► significant so yeah I hate to hear that Apple may be off to do all this was [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► pretty entertaining I also heard that advertisers somehow paid me off I man [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► and after sit at the top of the App Store paid after if that could have SAT [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► there for like a month I don't know if anyone else would have been able to [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► afford to pay for it it was it would have made a ton of money and that's you [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► know that's assuming a lot of course but if we could have sex for awhile you know [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► that would have been would have been a good amount of money but you know it's [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► it's it would have thought that was it [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► would have felt it would have felt like making a ton of money off of like drug [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► dealer didn't it didn't feel right you know that was the whole point i'm [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► looking right now actually have not been paying attention to see what is top that [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► topped charts top aide is arrayed Tweetbot for today between bud yeah but [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► number two is purify anything up there for a while and pure purify I forget [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► what I think you have to look grossing didn't even register call candy candy [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► crush yeah that's that's not there for a while I was at 11 pieces top data one [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► full day of the majority was grossing that I think that number seventeen or [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► eighteen for a little while not for the whole day but that was that was the [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► pecan and it was able to fall down the grossing ranks pretty far while still [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► being number one in the page are TV you know it the volumes are much lower [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► obviously and paid but yeah it would mean any app that's gonna sit there [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► anywhere like in the top 20 paid making really good money for a while so and I [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► don't you know if other people want to go in there and make a ton of money [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► making a bunkers that's fine like I'm willing and happy to yield that ground [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► to other people that's why did you know it I got there [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► realized I really didn't like being there and left yeah I actually haven't [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► looked in a while it seems weird to me though I thought that there would be a [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► couple of there but it looks like it's all down to purify now I don't see any [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► of the others although maybe maybe they're on the free list in there I [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► don't know which one to popular that there are a couple that would be popular [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► for a while crystal and purify were neck and neck and then I think maybe here [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► maybe crystals thing with the example adds that I mean that's a whole other [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► drama that I don't really want to get into because I am NOT happily anymore [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► but it that's the kind of thing where it just shows how incredibly messy and [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► difficult this business is and it's a perfect example of why I don't want to [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► be in it after all because it is just a very messy and very difficult as we [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► record on Thursday October 1st crystal is all the way down 32 [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► top paid and I guess it purifies number 22 obviously there's been some [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► divergence there but you you you know and there is this weird self [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► perpetuating this you know we've talked about this is so many different contexts [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► ever since the App Store opened but once something is a top these charts it tends [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► to stay there because one of the ways that people people here hey I hear [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► there's odd blockers for iOS they go to the AppStore where do they go to the top [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► chart they see one that looks reasonable to top of the charts and they got it and [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► by that time then they get it [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► purify works you know definitely does what it says on the 10th so then they're [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► done you know they've just spent two or three bucks or whatever it costs on [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► their thing and they're done and then none of the other two being a top is a [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► huge advantage so you you know peace having started at the top I think [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► there's a very good chance that it would still be there today if you maybe but [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► the same time like you know right now you could see like purify has already [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► fallen to number two you know we'll see you know how much it stays at the top of [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► how much it falls over time I mean it's only been a couple of weeks and it's [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► been a pretty short time so I don't even know if I would be able to be there for [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► a month I don't even know if that would have happened you know there's no way to [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► know and I don't matter like I also wonder how much this is going to be one [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► of those things where it's not like sustained [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► not that it's an unsustainable business could only get that much development [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► work to keep it going but that let's say fifteen to twenty percent of Iowa's [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► users might be interested in a content Booker well how soon until all of them [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► already have one and then I'm not sure if it's gonna be a chart-topper [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► in perpetuity and we tried speculating on that an ATP like like what percentage [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► of Iowa's people are likely to actually install and critically enable an ad [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► blocker and we came to about 10% being our estimate of people who would [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► actually enable it also goes through the settings menu and diving safari settings [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► actually turn it on in a in a convoluted so then the idea that a bloggers are [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► going to all of a sudden ruin everyone's lives I i think is unlikely and probably [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► exaggerated [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► likely I don't think it's likely that it would be that much different than on the [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► desktop and then the desktop I that I pulled the 15% from what i think is what [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► people estimators the desktop number and obviously that changes [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► changes a lot based on the audience you know I know Ars Technica [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► is really really hit hard by that because their audiences is technically [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► adept you know my site probably has to some extent just because at least [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► there's a high percentage of people who read my saved who know what an ad [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► blocker is in you know feel very very confident installing an extension it's [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► also worth pointing out like you know there's a lot of people it's also worth [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► pointing out that there's there's a lot of all those people who installed the ad [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► blockers who are more likely to bloggers like like nerds who visit our site and [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► your site how likely were they to click on the display ads to begin with you [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► know a guy I bet the race I mean I've always kind of suspected that display [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► ads on the internet are mostly supported by inadvertent accidental clicks or [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► people who don't realize they're clicking on that you click who are [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► misled into clicking on it by it looking like content or buy one of those like [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► stupid story i'd like you know top 10 ways to lift your face up like all those [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► crazy things like I always kind of suspected that the bulk of display [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► advertising online was being click through and funded by accident or [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► novices hurdle by ignorance in confusion [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► yeah it's really a 10 I'm sure that I'm sure that all of it but I bet it's a lot [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► more than both the advertisers on the publisher's would like to believe [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► well it's it is truly a they they truly opened a Pandora's box [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► way back in the nineties when they first started measuring clicks in first place [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► and I i've link to this over the years numerous contexts talking about that but [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► it's come back up again it it it is absolutely a case of be careful what you [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► measure coming to buy them [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► because at first when nobody was trying to gain system at all the idea of [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► counting the actual clicks on the ad was amazing because nobody ever knew when [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► you when you put an ad in a magazine you have a good gas that the circulation [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► numbers are probably pretty accurate because they were you know industry [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► standards in a maybe they tried to fight him a little bit for the most part it is [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► so expensive to print magazines they couldn't be that far off but how many [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► people actually read your ad of it on page 13 you know how many people skip [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► right past it you know what what was the register to actually be able to measure [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► it in a meaningful way [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► TV commercials could never really be measured if there was no gaming if [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► everybody was honest in world which is probably the biggest stupidest if I've [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► ever put forward counting the clicks on ads would be great and it it did at [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► first web advertising was super super expensive per customer [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► you know everyone a measure that because it could be measured but then as soon as [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► people could you know as soon as it started working people immediately [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► started gaming it in various ways so it's you know once and once they started [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► going down that path it was and still is to this day the fact that they try to [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► measure then you have all these problems with click fraud and botnets doing click [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► fraud and all this stuff it's it's a whole world of people trying to beat [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► each other off it's just disgusting to me that's one of the reasons why I do [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► wanna be in business after all just it's just it's just a dirty messy world at a [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► fundamental level the way I view advertising is even online is that it [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► fundamentally no different than advertising in print or on TV and in [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► which is to say that it is primarily about awareness making people aware [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► maybe people who've never heard of your product making them aware of that for [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► the first time or if they have heard of it [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► reinforcing it with your brand [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► you know you know if it's some kind of visual ad [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► or with some kind of message about it like for example like the ads I'll be [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► reading during this podcast where you're not seeing anything but you can hear [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► these talking points here's what they wanted to know about it so that you have [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► it in your head so that if you need a new mattress you can think what about [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► that one of these podcasts are talking about or something like that just saw it [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► in your head [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► awareness the fact that online ad can actually lead to engagement quicker [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► meaning you know you can just click on an ad and go and you're already at the [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► field notes website and you can't buy the notebook writer that that's great [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► but that should just be you know anybody who's deciding how much to spend on line [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► vs printer on TV that should just be icing on the cake it's still should [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► primarily be look if we put an ad on this website we think we can expect a [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► hundred thousand people will see it and we roughly know that there you know the [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► demographics are like this that's really all that they should be looking at but [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► the fact that they think that they can identify people will spend this money [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► and it'll only go to people who searched in Google Maps for an oil change in the [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► last 25 days it's just crazy and it leads to all sorts of sickness and all [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► sorts of really creepy and perverse incentives and behavior like it's it's [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► one of those worlds where anybody who who is kind of privacy in and sensibly [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► minded or anybody who has really strong ethics i think is often driven out of [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► business like it they won't do it someone else will you guys on ATP days [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► compared it to the industry and I think you guys kind of backed away from [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► because it's almost like wow that's really strong commitment but I actually [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► think it's actually really I think that's not a bad comparison at all [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► in terms of its not remove any judgment of whether the existence of pornography [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► in and of itself has any sort of moral you know it's just that you end up in [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► programming in doing things that are you know whoever is implementing it is [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► unhealthy right you know if it's some kind of paper thing for porno you your [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► you know that their their setup and somebody had to program the system that [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► enables somebody who's got like an addiction to the stuff to just keep [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► spending as much money as they can [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► that's you know that is absolutely immoral and you there's somebody feels [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► really guilty about that or somebody who wrote that code just doesn't have a [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► moral compass that point that way a lot of this stuff the programmatic stuff and [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► advertising is it down that path you know it's maybe not quite as far but [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► it's pretty pretty bad you know that you're doing things that you know that [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► the user isn't happy about that isn't good for them and that they wouldn't [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► want to know exactly what's going on and one of the problems that that you know [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► if so that's the side of the advertiser the side of the ad blocker of like the [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► person or company making and running the ad blocker itself that faces an [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► interesting dilemma where and I think you see this playing out with us [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► glad things with a buck plus and crystal on the controversy stirred up the end [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► and some things you said about the Deccan everything I have had their [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► privacy policy everything on whether in a question of whether the deck should be [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► should count as an ever-present should be blocked one of the problems here I [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► faces with Instapaper back forever ago i fix the problem that what people [TS]

00:18:53 ◼   ► actually wanted was to get the articles without ever hearing the ads will even [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► once they wanted me to go out and scrape new articles for them they'd never seen [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► before and show them immediately in the in the ad strip TextView like that's [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► what people actually want [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► and what's actually healthy for publishers and for the world i'm for me [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► legally was not to do things like that it was to say you know ok well im gonna [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► say things you have viewed in your web browser that's that's different and it [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► was it was always a really tricky balance because the the user base [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► the customer the market was pushing me to go over that line and I would always [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► try to hold back a little bit but not all my competitors didn't hurt me and I [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► think in the ad blocker industry I think you're going to see the same thing which [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► is you know we can talk all we want about how you well I also wanted to [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► compare that kind of to piracy and it's not these aren't great comparison so [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► please email us but you know if it's it has some overlap is is what I will say [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► about that and in a sense that like you know making a blocker is kind of like [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► making money from piracy it's like well people are going to pay me to hi [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► everyone else's ads and I can say well I can justify it with reasons XYZ [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► manufacturer perfectly valid things like security tracking etc [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► those are all very valid reasons but if I made a blocker that only blocked [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► tracking and still showed ads nobody would want it because what people [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► actually want is to block all the ads and all the tracking and the and the [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► security in the creepiness those are all convenient justifications for them just [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► like when ppl Pirates deficit well it wasn't available in my country at or [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► wasn't available without DRM in the form I wanted on the box I wanna play it on [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► whatever people can read all sorts of reasons for piracy while also knowing [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► yet also kinda not right and so a desk at our son but a blocking when it when I [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► quit was like I could rationalize a whole bunch of reasons why this needs to [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► exist and why I might even wants to run by which I do it I still run gostaria my [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► computer and I still run I'm switching between various blockers on the phone [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► trying to find a good one and only one blogger you know people people were [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► actually his reasons but to be the person making it an enabling this and [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► making money from it even if it puts on a different level and there's always [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► going to be a tension between you know trying to make it seems [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► morally acceptable but also the reality of what the market really wants is to [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► get everything for free and not see any ads ever and no matter what they say if [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► they if they say it's all about something else it's all about tracking [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► whenever some people are honest about that most are most people just want to [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► block all the ads I disagree I really do disagree I think there's definitely some [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► subset of people who really do want to block that really do you know sort of [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► the ones that there's even a magazine called for like an anti advertising [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► magazine reports no no no used to sell it at Whole Foods but they don't pay [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► more but it's it'll come to me for like you guys have people who are opposed to [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► advertising in general not just online advertising but who actually are [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► Crusaders about you know that that advertising is a perverse force on on [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► our society in 1902 before effect cases there are some cases where it is you [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► know you know the cigarette companies and the address you know the way that [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► they've been legislation has been passed that you really can't advertise anymore [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► and that when they used to be able to they really did you could prove it that [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► they they they targeted their ads to children [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► famously the joe camel cartoon mascot for camel cigarettes was different polls [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► are they would go in and you know talk to kindergarteners and they're amazing [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► amazing brand awareness in kindergarten age kids of the mascot for a cigarette [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► company that's really sick and it was an accident it was actually play it so [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► there's an example there are people who kind of feel that way about all that [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► and and maybe it's not even the messaging there's others who are clearly [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► online who really care about every single byte of data every bite somebody [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► pointed out to me for example and and daring fireball in the deck the deck ads [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► are so small compared to online ad you know in general but because during [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► fireball has almost no images oftentimes has no images other than like the logo [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► on the homepage the deck actually comprises a significant portion of the [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► average page view especially if you don't even look at the whole home page [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► where there is a whole big wall attacks but if you just go to like an individual [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► short entry significant portion maybe even a majority portion of the bites [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► that get downloaded on the page you go to the at [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► I think looking at that as a percentage is kind of unfair just because of the [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► design of don't fireball but if you really want to look at it that way [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► ok fine I say go ahead block yet you know but I don't have a lot of people [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► feel that way I think people think that opening people's eyes with this with the [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► with content blocking are the Foreman's numbers that people are see ya I think [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► when I see people whose eyes have been opened by like some of the stuff like [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► that then Brooks has been publishing when he's you know doing the yeoman's [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► work of testing all these things and the New York Times published it in today [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► where they they tested a bunch of sites without blockers and when you see that [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► you can save thirty seconds on a mobile page you when you go to boston.com by [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► having an ad blocker and only has about blocking ads its I just want I want that [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► speed increase [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► yeah and that's that's certainly a major part of it that is a major justification [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► and a major motivator especially in Moberly on desktop it was it was easier [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► to get wasteful and kind of ignore it but I mobile it matters more mobile also [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► screen space matters more to add that would come in and take over a massive [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► chunk of the screen or do these stupid overlays or break when you zoomed in so [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► many bad things out there but it's a major motivator but I think it comes [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► down to like if you ask people would you rather see this thing with ads or with [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► no [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► ads they would choose no ads every time you know some exceptions like you know [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► like certain magazines like the ads are kind of the point but for the most part [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► most content I think people if people are given the option to take it with no [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► ads they would take that option [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► assume the cost was equal in both free and so what you have in the AM [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► businesses this kind of tension is this kind of balanced tension will usually [TS]

00:25:53 ◼   ► it's balanced where the people really want the stuff for free and they don't [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► want to pay that they don't want to pay for it and i also dont wanna see ads and [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► the publishers as you know they obviously can't operate for free so they [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► say alright well look kind of reach this equilibrium like okay well we're gonna [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► show ads and most of your going to tolerate them and you're going to [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► tolerate it because you don't want to pay us and it's kind of okay and for the [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► most part both sides that usually it this it's this at this relationship of [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► tolerating you not actually wanting the ads are enjoying the ads you know most [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► people if given the choice again they would they would say well I don't have [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► to see the ads that don't show them to me or don't waste my time with them so [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► it's always this kind of tension and in in the in the grand scheme of things I [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► think people do like free content better than they like payroll stuff so [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► ultimately I think I think this is a necessary evil like it's and obviously [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► this is usually no but it is a necessary compromise of of how how content is [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► viewed and paid for and everything and you know i i run the deck out of my [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► sight I run outta my podcast just like you do on here and that's those are both [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► choices where it's like you know I also you know I I would love to do an ad free [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► podcast for people just paid us but that would make a lot less money and a lot [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► less people and you know if you put up a wall up in front of a podcast that is [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► just death like nobody listens so it's it's really it's it's never a great [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► relationship it's never perfect you know it's never really what all sides want [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► but if this compromise at all sides have reached most of the time and anything [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► you do throw that out of balance [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► like making the ads are really obnoxious or really creepy early over-reaching are [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► really slow have other major problems there's gonna be pushed back from that [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► but the basic the basic notion of you i'ma show you had your going to tolerate [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► them it's there it's a little bit uncomfortable even from the start you [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► know and it's I've always I've always kind of felt mildly irritated by the [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► fact that I make my living on ads because I don't like ads you know but I [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► think this is the best solution we have given all the variables I think that's [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► where the comparisons piracy works as I've always seen piracy as a negotiation [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► it is you know somebody that if they're pirating and a poor game there did you [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► know that makes the game is saying there's a new game for your PC its $40 [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► and the person who Pirates instead of paying for the same note $0 and it's [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► some point and I know that you know with piracy there are absolute . die hard and [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► there are people you know did I i when I was in college I pirated all sorts of [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► stuff and it wasn't wasn't like if Adobe head a have the price of photoshop I was [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► gonna pay for it instead of pirating it I realize that but you know for some [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► things at some point and i think that that was the key to the iTunes Music [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► Store making online music success is that they they were saying here's a [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► better deal we will have all the music you'll get your album art and all have [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► good metadata right there you'll you'll be sure of the quality and it's a fair [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► price $0.99 and did it stop music piracy no definitely not but it definitely [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► turns some people who might have otherwise or previously been using [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► Napster or you know whatever the you know the stuff that came after Napster [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► was to instead to say you know what I'll just buy it from iTunes it's a [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► negotiation i think what you see and it's the same thing with a lot of piracy [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► and you see it with entertainment industry [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► the way they approach movies and stuff like that and and music and games [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► software and I think it's very true with the advertising industry is that the [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► industry the publishers and advertisers for the entertainment companies they [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► don't see it as a negotiation they see this as a problem that could be solved [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► so that they can do whatever they want and they are the people will just take [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► weekend we can show you whenever online ad we want and you'll just suck it up at [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► that and that there's some you know I'm sure that there's a whole bunch of [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► people who are if they're looking at Wow our mobile numbers are down this month [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► you know the Silas content blocking thing is totally real you can't see it [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► here you know five six seven percent down you know over where we were before [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► this came out you know that there's people wrote right now who's there who [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► are thinking or who are demanding of their engineering teams find a way [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► around this [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► not not like how do we you know how do we start selling ads that people don't [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► want to block its how do we defeat the content partners and you know I think [TS]

00:30:58 ◼   ► that's the right attitude that's not that's not gonna win exactly so only on [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► the other side when they make new kinds of ads then the ad blocker people are [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► gonna say well now we need to block this new kind of like the neither side is [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► willing to agree to the other side's terms here like the the advertiser is [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► not going to say well I guess we better stop publishing ads because nobody likes [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► ads and the ad blockers are gonna say well you know what that ad is fine we're [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► going to win because if they do the user revolt and they go to something else so [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► I don't know what the ultimate solution is but it's absolutely some form of [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► having a basic respect for the user and for your product and I've been saying [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► the following four years as well as to me as somebody who's always been sort of [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► obsessed by publishing [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► and advertising and graphic design branding and things like this whether [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► it's you know print TV or online [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► it has always been right from the very get-go has always been very clear to me [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► that the traditional companies either from TV or from print when they went [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► online by and large they had very little to no respect for the web they either [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► treated it as like at some point I had to stop treating it as as maybe a fad [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► but clearly at the beginning a lot of thought maybe this is a bad and they [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► never ever treated with the respect that they treat their main products you know [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► they would never put popup that actually covered the actors faces faces on a TV [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► show about you know even when they put they do some substance doorknobs me on [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► TV where they put little things about the bottom of the screen but they don't [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► do something that covers the actual content of the show while the show is [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► playing magazines don't allow advertisers to make add that like he [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► pages are getting worse every year with you now that print is getting desperate [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► date it might be out of desperation but certainly while they were profitable [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► they wouldn't do it they wouldn't make you like let's say a popular paid like [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► the op-ed page in the new york times they weren't going to see all that with [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► some kind of tape so that you have to sit there and spent thirty seconds [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► looking at the whatever logo is on the tape while you carefully cut across it [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► to do it but they've treated online at like that all along time I really do I'm [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► gonna go back and I'm gonna tell you I i feel like i have to explain why I [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► thought you shouldn't have taken peace out of the store and at the time I [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► didn't realize that having read your piece [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► your article explaining it I would have said ok you're right if that's what you [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► feel then just get out I didn't know when you called me I didn't know what [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► you were thinking the problem I think the idea of [TS]

00:33:59 ◼   ► once it was out and when she saw that there was controversy to be had an [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► argument to be made and that it was going to be a nonstop never never ending [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► slog of what deserves to be blocked and what doesn't [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► the realization that he didn't want to be in this business was you know i think [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► is the recall I didn't know that I also think that this is why you're still [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► getting shit from people I have seen this where there are people who you know [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► lol how could you build contemp locker all summer long and not imagine what it [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► was like to have a contemp locker I can imagine that very easily that you didn't [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► really think about it I thought your explanation [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► here's a cool API I'd like to build one myself I like to build things so I'll [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► build it and they don't think pass exactly that was that was really it's [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► like I said although none ATP it's like all summer long I was focused on how to [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► make a really cool app using the stuff and I i was not focusing on what will [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► actually be like if I make this cool app succeed and become a major person [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► influential in this business and having everyone look at me this way and I [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► didn't think about that you know I should have but I was naive and I i want [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► to do the cool thing where I make the cool app and then you know I didn't you [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► know it didn't matter what the app did I just how I want I had to school app idea [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► and I i tried it and it worked really well and so I I was motivated to keep [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► going with it and it just didn't think about you know what would happen and I [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► mean a lot about this is a lot of the a lot of the frustration and anger that I [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► received over it from other people is really about like you know they they [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► just can't believe that there's that I got to that position and that I give it [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► up for very that's one of the reasons you know one of the other reasons is [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► like how do you walk away from all that money and it's you know it's like 10 [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► money isn't everything I felt bad about etcetera [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► and I mean just once I decided to to take it up the store and and I i just [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► when I had it once I decided that I'd like you said you were the dentist it [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► was the the moment I decided I should stop the store is a temp there in the [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► morning it was down by 12:30 it was it was like two hours like all I had to do [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► was I i talked it over with my wife i ran up by you and identify the good [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► people to make sure that I even could do without breaking the contract and and [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► that then that they were going to be mad about it and that was it you know what I [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► want to do the same time like as soon as I even had the idea to do it I felt a [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► million has better like a giant weight off my shoulders and that night when I [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► was working on overcast again for the first time in a couple of weeks [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► felt so good because overcast will probably not make in its entire next [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► year what peace could make in two or three days but so much better about it [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► you know you and I have talked about this that one of the things some people [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► have a very hard time believing that anybody obviously I don't think [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► everybody thinks is wearing a majority but there are clearly some people who [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► cannot get it through their head that pure money is not a primary motivating [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► factor for us it's great I am successful right now and I do appreciate that and [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► it's important to me because I have a family and so it is certainly a [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► significant motivator and it is a very high priority for me but it's not number [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► one and maximizing it getting every single dollar that I can absolutely [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► positively is not a number a motivator for me is professionally is doing good [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► work that I'm proud of [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► and number two is probably like just what I feel like the overall quality of [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► my life and my happy money obviously plays a factor in that but you know [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► making the most money possible definitely doesn't write and I are both [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► fortunate that you and I have made enough money and and make make enough [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► money through other means that like we can say no to things that don't feel [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► right to us and and you know there's there's all these days don't like you [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► know every there there's a threshold for everybody and it's surprisingly low [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► where additional money that you make above that threshold doesn't really make [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► you happier you know so there is this concept of like what is enough and in [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► most cultures that aren't american's that number is way lower even americans [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► have you know this concept of what is enough [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► beyond which it stops really added to your happiness and in a proportional way [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► and I've heard estimates of the number being as low as like $75,000 a year [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► which you know in this offer businesses is a pretty mid-range too low salary so [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► it's pretty for people who are likely to the show it's not that hard to achieve [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► that it is not unheard of in the event that you that you know if you already [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► make a six-figure salary and you know the idea that you could turn away money [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► from something that you that makes you feel terrible that actually there's a [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► lot of like widespread you know surveys and and psychology and up to back that [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► up where it actually is plausible to do an effect people do it frequently think [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► that you know once once you once you've reached a certain level of income you [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► don't just have to say yes to everything and in fact if you do and a lot of [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► people choose poorly on that scale and say yes to everything and are miserable [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► for it and I don't necessarily realize that like you know they don't have to do [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► that there's a lot of people who you know people who do it not just because [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► they're well off enough and they can keep their life so people who downgrade [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► their lifestyle [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► and delighted by it you know somebody who is just killing themselves in a [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► corporate attorney job you know hundred some hours a week doing this my num in [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► work and then they leave and become you know a teacher or something you know you [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► take a job with it has a much shorter commute away closest to your house even [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► if it pays less than the job that all the way in the city [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► your way happier taking the job at a shorter commute and you're you're able [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► to rationally say yes I can turn down the extra money for the job in the city [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► because I will be way happier and probably healthier and probably have a [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► better family life if I if I choose us right at the same kind of thing it all [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► plays out there somebody who leaves six-figure engineering job at Apple or [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► any of the big companies out there and it just opened up their own coffee shop [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► which is an indoor in opening up a restaurant notoriously low margin [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► difficult business to be in but that all they've ever wanted to do is raise their [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► own coffee and make a cool place you know where people can you know if that's [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► what you wanna do i mean there could be so much happier and you're making way [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► less money [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► way less but anyway that's its people don't think I'll give you a concrete [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► example of money that I have passed up and it's I don't think it's a thing it [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► certainly wasn't sustainable in Google's search algorithm got around it but at [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► some point in the late last decade I would have guessed the summer of 2008 [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► 2010 or so it was non-stop Virage every week where I got offers from people to [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► place text ads on their enviable text thing either they wanted on the homepage [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► or it would be some specific page that ranked highly for certain keyword posted [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► I'd written and they would offer thousands of dollars I mean I remember [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► one time it was it was a guy and I actually pursued it now because I [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► thought I would take it but i wanna see something $20,000 for [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► couple of months and it just seemed like such a large amount of money but i just [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► want to see is this is this is because if I don't get the money I'm gonna take [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► the texture down and it's you know it's the Google index it wants [TS]

00:42:15 ◼   ► I can't be because this is an article like let's say your old article if they [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► think that there's value to be gained by putting a text there now they must know [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► that Google Reader indexes these pages and so therefore they must know that if [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► I'd take the text ad down it'll rien texan they won't have that Google juice [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► you know and I just research the company and it really see my yes this is a [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► company that pays publishers tens of thousands of dollars to place these [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► texts at and then you could do things they don't even care all they cared [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► about was the search engines and you you could do things like use CSS to make it [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► just plain 9446 position at 4000 pixels off-screen whatever you want to didn't [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► care so it wasn't like anybody would know wasn't like anybody would see it [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► but it was thousands of dollars from just nonstop for years and I say no to [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► all of them or or or the other thing I would do is I would write back and they [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► would be like what David they were a lot of them would say what is what would you [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► want how much would you want for me to put a text ad page and I would write [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► back [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► $100,000 and then they would say that's too much do you know you're looking at [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► like Alexa numbers or something [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► traffic but before I got to like ridiculous numbers like that i would [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► offer I remember I would write back as a joke and just say like $10,000 they'd be [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► like about seven times that you've got this obscene number that they would [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► laugh at and they're actually I guess it's pretty close actually felt we could [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► do that now these are ads that were in all they wanted was the text all they [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► wanted to do is trick Google and other search indexes there was no major [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► industry for a while I think I think it's finally probably die down as Google [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► that smarter but major interstate was a major industry in the money was truly [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► significant i mean [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► I know what I could have if I'd pursued it but easily tens of thousands a month [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► I read those like I bet the market had like a hundred visitors a month I ran [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► those from a company called text link ads like texting out of hyping it and I [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► was a company name and they might even still be around nine times I don't think [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► I think text link ads word I think that in particular they were they weren't so [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► skinny they they would vary so it was very similar you embedded this PHP thing [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► I remember I even I [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► I was still very new to PHP the time but I even modified the code to add nofollow [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► to the links I think that eventually get me kicked out but because I I was aware [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► of what they were doing and other well you know I'm gonna add nofollow because [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► that's the that's the right thing to do and they didn't have an explicit rule [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► against that I could find at the time I wrote that this wasn't doing any [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► tracking it wasn't going to mean literally just HTML so wasn't even going [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► to have any measurable effect on downloads eyes were talking about not [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► even kilobyte bites actual just extra bytes would if it loaded synchronously [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► what you would have had to do what they want with Google it would block the [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► pageload wallet on your server side I don't even think I think they just [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► wanted me to actually just paste paste this little snippet of HTML the article [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► it wasn't even dynamic a dynamic now I think that there were some services like [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► text link ads were was dynamic as they wanted to get used to feel these offers [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► from people who just wanted to buy a month of you know just put this snippet [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► of HTML and this article for a month and no significant money and I didn't do it [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► I turned it down because just felt gross and it just ended and I didn't need it I [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► do have to admit the whole RSS sponsorship thing at this point was [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► taking off and it was doing well in the deck was you know I was already in the [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► deck so I didn't need it I was already at the point where I could say don't [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► fireball is supporting my family I don't need to pile this on with things I'm not [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► proud of and exactly you know so I didn't [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► but there are you know there's other examples I i feel that offers from [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► people like you know other ad networks [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► effectively I would have adequate the Deccan go to them who offered me way [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► more than the deck you know has ever paid me per month and you know I just [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► said no to all of them because I just dancing around switching ad networks [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► going to the highest bidder and look in their ad obviously they were did just [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► weren't they weren't little nice static ads like the tech they were big and ugly [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► the standard IAB big red yeah I mean the idea of looking like the decades of [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► amazing lock-in because once you once you are accustomed to the way your own [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► site looks with the deck and once your readers are accustomed to a your site [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► look at the DEC [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► just imagine what your site would look like with his with the giant a [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► skyscraper at the sidebar they regularly like a big white like that would look [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► horrendous [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► it wouldn't look like your site at all it would look like if you were like on [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► some crazy why fight it was like injecting ads in a prepared you visit [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► like it would look like a scam or malware had taken over something it [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► would you wouldn't you would never say oh it's very possible its normal like [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► that just goes to show I think like the different worlds that that are possible [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► here in the advertising space like you have you know fully native stuff like [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► urs sponsorships that an hour into doing the podcast you then you have like the [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► very very subtle modeling with the deck does and you have everything else [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► giant horrible things and and i i do think but I certainly that it wasn't [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► like the other ones that would come to me we're offering me it would be 25 [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► percent more than the democrats thirty was it like a percentage more it was a [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► factor of three four five times more like five times more than what I was [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► making from the deck was significant money the way I always chalked it up and [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► i na me completely support me on this is that to me the money that I was leaving [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► on the table by not using this ad was effectively in investing in the brand [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► during Bible yeah that's totally right and your site has always had that look [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► so easy even even in the age now where you [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► you might wanna consider Mobile layout and bigger font someday maybe but you [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► know you as always and that definitely does have a definite it definitely does [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► contribute it makes your site look higher class more valuable certainly [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► it's much more pleasant to read as long as you hit the + button a few times on [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► the keyboard it is it is very very much contributes you know if you go to slash [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► perhaps you'll get a little bit actually they used to be multiple press which [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► devices and set to sync iCloud a doubt it but he doesn't know that you know [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► during fireball that / press and you can set the font size and it'll save you [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► know maybe maybe I should get to use some time and make you finally update [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► responsibly keeping you know what the right not to its we can keep on as I [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► wanted but one of the things if I do even when I do I want to change it once [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► I want to change the layout today on fireball wants and then have at last at [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► least another 15 to 20 years no pressure [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► well the last design you know has gone close to change it like 2003 or 2004 [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► there was an early days ago for the first year during fireballs a slightly [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► different designs so eleven years ago someone that goes for 15 n may be the [TS]

00:49:48 ◼   ► only to tweak it like I have this one you know here and there suddenly over [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► the years but you know I want to do it once but to do it once I think it would [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► require web funds and I've progressing in four years on web points because I [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► just can't get over the fact that to me they feel slow and one of the things [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► that I really love about how fast it's one of my favorite things I get from [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► people from emails or tweets or something like that every once in a [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► while [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► during fire but does go down or if there's like DNS outage on the net which [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► makes really weird things and it's like some people like people say hey is [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► durable down and I check and it's definitely not down it's right there [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► really fast but I keep I get like three or four of these it's usually like a DNS [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► problem and people who are somewhere on some chunk of the internet can't get [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► there and when people say the following me always makes my day they say during [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► fire bodies in just one of my favorite site it's also the thing I always go to [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► what I want to check my internet connection yet but they expect that it's [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► always up and expected to load against him and websites definitely changed so [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► I've put off you know and and that's funny because with the country bloggers [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► a lot of them have an option to block web funds specifically just just to make [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► things faster not because anybody is really opposed to nobody's supposed to [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► good-looking font and nobody's opposed to nice design but people some people [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► favor faster page loads over you know I mean I was I was doing that in the early [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► built a piece that was like one of the very first things I built was i dont [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► wanna bought all third-party JavaScript which was insane but worked and and I [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► and it had an option to block all of us and it broke my site a lot of other [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► sites but it was complex faster it was a massive speed difference and so now like [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► as much as I love the this wonderful J ideal Sans font that I use on my site [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► and you know as far as I know like I see a couple of benchmarks here in there [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► that suggests that the FDA web fonts are not as fast as type it but either way [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► neither none of them are what I would call fast enough you know if they're [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► you're still loading a few hundred kilobytes of funds for most people that [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► you know and it's from some other CDN that is off off host so it's like making [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► other connection everything and another opportunity for weird latency or DNS [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► issues and the fact is web fonts are really nice they're they're very much [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► like a nice to her [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► have but if they're gonna come at a big cost they're probably not worth it for [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► most sites and what I found when I like it when I would have been browsing with [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► with weapons disabled on my phone for for a while now and even with coaster on [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► the desktop I would I would turn off type get their tractors that they can [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► block a couple months to and you really don't miss much like it's you know you [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► you can tell on certain sites were like they didn't have a good fallback so the [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► default by Times New Roman you can you can tell us what it's supposed to look [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► like times but for the most part things load really fast and nothing looks that [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► bad and many times it looks pretty good at fall back to something sensible so [TS]

00:53:07 ◼   ► you know i i would say it if if I realize I'm eyesight anytime soon I [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► would almost certainly go back to a regular system fun and not use that just [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► isn't worth it and that being said in in defense of your ancient site design I [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► will say that that a couple months ago I I decided to to be a smart ass and to [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► try to try to like just write like 10 lines of CSS or whatever that I could [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► just like text you and have you inject you in your template here's your freakin [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► responsive layout here like here just modernize your site with this little [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► thing I get wrote in an hour so that was my plan is gonna do this and I try I [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► started and your site a surprisingly complex I I tried doing that and I [TS]

00:53:55 ◼   ► realized it was going to be way more work then than what I had planned for [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► this is a common theme with me way more work and as I can now understand why you [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► haven't done this [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► yeah that's a pretty well I mean it's been so long that I don't know but you [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► probably started at like 10 times yeah thats bring back stories there but it [TS]

00:54:18 ◼   ► will happen sooner or later but yeah there's no way to just take the current [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► HTML and easily do it i mean you can make a new one that looks that a wide [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► screen looks the same but the way that everything is structured right now is [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► actually sort of [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► fight against responsible but the worst thing that ever happened was the fact [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► that with a very little a very short amount of think it's just like that one [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► viewport meta tag and the fact that a double tap on the main text column is [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► pretty good and has been since the original iPhone in 2007 I mean like two [TS]

00:54:56 ◼   ► lines of code in 2007 made it easy did the double tap on the center column of [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► text inhabit reasonably good size and a pretty good with its not nice and fixed [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► used you can still slide around sideways when you scroll but it's actually pretty [TS]

00:55:11 ◼   ► good for you know run on mobile optimized layout and that's probably the [TS]

00:55:16 ◼   ► worst thing that ever happened because if it had been terrible on iPhone I [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► would have done something in 2007 or 2008 yeah I mean and that's i mean your [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► site works the way every site work in [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► this was the problem that I created Instapaper to solve like it one of the [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► problems is like I didn't want to keep zooming in on everyone's pages and then [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► like I would say girls girls girls I was reading actually get misaligned a little [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► bit so I decide and let me try to realign back to the center column never [TS]

00:55:44 ◼   ► quite get it right happens all the time you know just pretend to believe that [TS]

00:55:48 ◼   ► and I i talked to people about a year ago at this like I think if I was [TS]

00:55:56 ◼   ► designing Instapaper from scratch today is designing a thing that would solve [TS]

00:56:01 ◼   ► this problem from scratch today I don't think I would do the TextView I think I [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► would just save it was there on the page like the fully because responsive design [TS]

00:56:11 ◼   ► and modern sensible design on most of the house but I want to read and [TS]

00:56:17 ◼   ► especially now with content blockers existing if there is a way to look into [TS]

00:56:19 ◼   ► that Hannah system responsive design really solved the problem pretty well [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► most of the time like these like back in 2007 2008 when I was designing [TS]

00:56:29 ◼   ► Instapaper at first the TextView was necessary because no sites had mobile [TS]

00:56:34 ◼   ► layouts responsive design didn't even exist yet they get the respect wasn't [TS]

00:56:39 ◼   ► even there the media queries I don't think even existed back either supported [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► so that you could [TS]

00:56:44 ◼   ► do responsive as high back then but that has really removed a lot of the need for [TS]

00:56:50 ◼   ► things like Instapaper text you and safaris read review prior to the iPhone [TS]

00:56:55 ◼   ► the only thing that has ever been done in web standards for mobile work [TS]

00:56:59 ◼   ► completely different sites wow I guess was the big 10 WA p.m. you know what it [TS]

00:57:05 ◼   ► stood for but it was so that the devices pre iPhone were so primitive [TS]

00:57:10 ◼   ► computationally displays are so small that it wasn't even feasible nobody even [TS]

00:57:15 ◼   ► really considered how would we make a dynamic layout that you could just have [TS]

00:57:20 ◼   ► one URL one web page and it would look this way on the big monitor this way on [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► a smaller monitor in this way on it on a tiny little nobody even thought about [TS]

00:57:30 ◼   ► that and that's why we still have sites today they have like mobile . [TS]

00:57:34 ◼   ► URLs in the diary direct well and Dan that's a little different diseases like [TS]

00:57:39 ◼   ► type site but still there but anyway let me take a break here I got to thank our [TS]

00:57:44 ◼   ► first point is a good one so so don't skip ahead this is gonna be a good good [TS]

00:57:50 ◼   ► read it's the broader group B R A W you are now they sponsor during fire before [TS]

00:57:57 ◼   ► I think they actually sure to it was a great success so they're back to [TS]

00:58:04 ◼   ► announce the guys behind an app called is America called you bar just like at [TS]

00:58:09 ◼   ► lower case you be a are you bar three and implement a ton of suggestions from [TS]

00:58:16 ◼   ► he even says specifically from listeners of the talk show readers during fireball [TS]

00:58:20 ◼   ► it's a dark replacement for the Mac the purpose of bars to vastly increase your [TS]

00:58:25 ◼   ► productivity Pro users love it but it's also you know it's not just like a pro [TS]

00:58:30 ◼   ► on the tool you can definitely see how a normal person in your family would [TS]

00:58:34 ◼   ► totally get into this sort of sort of model more on the Windows taskbar so if [TS]

00:58:42 ◼   ► you are anybody in your family as switching windows and sort of doesn't [TS]

00:58:46 ◼   ► like the ways that the Mac OS 10 dog isn't like the Windows taskbar you bar [TS]

00:58:52 ◼   ► is exactly the sort of thing you should look at [TS]

00:58:54 ◼   ► it looks good it's not a very very cool looking very beautiful to puro as 10 [TS]

00:58:59 ◼   ► style design and it's got for power users tons of shortcuts you can do [TS]

00:59:04 ◼   ► things like hold down CTRL and you can see the CPU and RAM usage for any of the [TS]

00:59:09 ◼   ► apps that are in there that are running will downshift and you can quit any app [TS]

00:59:13 ◼   ► or close any window from that app just by clicking absolute unresponsive get a [TS]

00:59:19 ◼   ► red background so you can spot hanging out immediately you don't have to go and [TS]

00:59:23 ◼   ► launch so it's sort of like it's it's adding features from activity monitor [TS]

00:59:27 ◼   ► right there in the in the taskbar tons and tons of custom customization you can [TS]

00:59:34 ◼   ► set the size there's different themes dark and why exactly what you would [TS]

00:59:38 ◼   ► think you get the idea when you listen to the you know the idea of the state [TS]

00:59:43 ◼   ► that you know there's a lot of customization you can put on any side of [TS]

00:59:47 ◼   ► any monitor including the top you can pin it to a corner just unbelievable [TS]

00:59:52 ◼   ► stuff so here we go to you by our apt dot com and have a four-week trial you [TS]

00:59:58 ◼   ► can download it start running again for weeks and cost is only 20 bucks so this [TS]

01:00:05 ◼   ► is a great utility typical utility price 20 bucks but I think they're actually [TS]

01:00:10 ◼   ► crazy cuz I think 20 bucks is a great price but here's the deal this is my [TS]

01:00:14 ◼   ► idea but they have a coat red grouper are a ti na than my last name [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► retina grouper I don't know if that's a reference to read the graphics are my [TS]

01:00:23 ◼   ► problems are both but either way it could go either way [TS]

01:00:27 ◼   ► 50% off so you can get it for just 10 bucks so you get four weeks it right and [TS]

01:00:32 ◼   ► it's 10 bucks to get and this is the part that one more thing the developer [TS]

01:00:39 ◼   ► the app his last name is our quick seems like a shame I I don't know [TS]

01:00:49 ◼   ► he has happened so Edward Edward bra or so they're at and driver development [TS]

01:00:55 ◼   ► that's his primary that's how he supports himself that he's a programmer [TS]

01:00:58 ◼   ► but here's the most amazing happy his hobby is watch meeting he makes real [TS]

01:01:05 ◼   ► mechanical watches so he's actually watching a new timepiece radio show [TS]

01:01:11 ◼   ► called The Mirage is a limited edition of only three hundred pieces each with [TS]

01:01:16 ◼   ► an engraving number on the back he has sent one to me to really really nice [TS]

01:01:23 ◼   ► take my number is one number I got 10 for something like that really nice [TS]

01:01:31 ◼   ► style beautiful typography I mean it's like a real serious watch I think price [TS]

01:01:38 ◼   ► 750 bucks so we're talking about this is a joke it looks like us $150 watch it is [TS]

01:01:47 ◼   ► really really amazing very very nice it has totally serious strap it made by [TS]

01:01:53 ◼   ► company I'm never gonna pronounces right camille for name in Paris it's a [TS]

01:01:59 ◼   ► blizzard like alligator leather strap they make OEM straps first actual [TS]

01:02:05 ◼   ► serious watch companies like Patek Philippe and others it has a single [TS]

01:02:11 ◼   ► deployment clasp single full deployment clasp that only means something if [TS]

01:02:15 ◼   ► you're lucky person but if you are a white person you know what I mean really [TS]

01:02:19 ◼   ► really nice it is I get serious dress watch but not addressing that you can [TS]

01:02:23 ◼   ► wear it casually so go to for the white girl brower PRA wer timepieces dot com [TS]

01:02:33 ◼   ► and the same code works there [TS]

01:02:36 ◼   ► retina grouper and you can get that watch for 40% off so similar $50 watch [TS]

01:02:44 ◼   ► but you can get a 40 percent off using that code shipping is free in the USA [TS]

01:02:48 ◼   ► and Canada and it comes in a real watch box again if you've ever bought illegal [TS]

01:02:54 ◼   ► can see why Charlie even like this [TS]

01:02:57 ◼   ► edition watches you know that like $2000 watches most common an icebox fisticuffs [TS]

01:03:02 ◼   ► in a really nice box [TS]

01:03:04 ◼   ► the thing that I can't believe it's not that I can't believe somebody made a [TS]

01:03:07 ◼   ► nice watches lots nice watches out there I just can't believe that this guy [TS]

01:03:10 ◼   ► designed in made it and did all this stuff in machining to actually machine [TS]

01:03:19 ◼   ► out the stainless steel frame the lodge and everything as like his hobby it's [TS]

01:03:23 ◼   ► absolutely crazy that makes this amazing you borrow my thanks to to them for the [TS]

01:03:31 ◼   ► bar which is probably something an awful lot of you ought to go look at it maybe [TS]

01:03:35 ◼   ► by and for the new Mirage watch which probably isn't going to solve a lot of [TS]

01:03:41 ◼   ► you but for those of you are into watches it absolutely positively worth [TS]

01:03:45 ◼   ► looking at all so it's not too big I don't know what I would say if it has a [TS]

01:03:49 ◼   ► diameter of only 40 millimetres so it's perfectly standard not too big to watch [TS]

01:03:55 ◼   ► a woman could get away with it like a nice big watch for a woman told enormous [TS]

01:04:01 ◼   ► size comes in three colors white blue and black so my thanks to check them out [TS]

01:04:05 ◼   ► that the craziest part of the craziest fights over that's pretty impressive [TS]

01:04:11 ◼   ► also I want to give you all my French words to pronounce never any of that I [TS]

01:04:17 ◼   ► have no idea but perhaps even a tard alright here's the thing I want to tell [TS]

01:04:22 ◼   ► you why I think you were here is the mistake I think you made with peace and [TS]

01:04:28 ◼   ► I feel guilty about this because I knew over the summer that you were working on [TS]

01:04:32 ◼   ► this thing and I i i didnt tested until late the night before something like [TS]

01:04:36 ◼   ► that and I feel bad that I didn't cause I would have I would have called you out [TS]

01:04:40 ◼   ► on the fact that it wasn't [TS]

01:04:42 ◼   ► whitelisting the Dacron emphatically and in fact I was confused because I could [TS]

01:04:47 ◼   ► swear that the night before when I didn't stop the better I did the first [TS]

01:04:50 ◼   ► thing I did was check during fireball I could swear that it did show the ad and [TS]

01:04:54 ◼   ► then you told me that there's some flaking is when you first enable these [TS]

01:04:57 ◼   ► things after I think that's what I saw I don't put words in my mouth but here's [TS]

01:05:05 ◼   ► what I think you rethink [TS]

01:05:06 ◼   ► you were thinking I'm not I don't care don't want to have a bunch of Philly [TS]

01:05:12 ◼   ► setting so I don't want to have its own thing that says block block all ad block [TS]

01:05:18 ◼   ► most dads block half ads just block the worst ads and they're going to say here [TS]

01:05:23 ◼   ► there's a switch block at and I think you were thinking I would be a hypocrite [TS]

01:05:28 ◼   ► if I wait listed the DAC just because that's what my site as in so I'll do the [TS]

01:05:36 ◼   ► thing that not being a hypocrite and just include the deck which is mine [TS]

01:05:40 ◼   ► which is sort of I i think that by not whitelisting the deck you are committing [TS]

01:05:53 ◼   ► an entirely different form of hypocrisy which is that all everything is content [TS]

01:06:03 ◼   ► and everything that you publish from archive.org is your your your standing [TS]

01:06:12 ◼   ► behind so by publishing ads from the deck by sending them to users your [TS]

01:06:16 ◼   ► implicitly saying this is an ad that's worth you're seeing and it's worth your [TS]

01:06:23 ◼   ► device that you're accessing the site downloading and rendering and putting on [TS]

01:06:27 ◼   ► the page so I feel like you you painted yourself into by by releasing peace with [TS]

01:06:33 ◼   ► the deck not be included you have two things you've got a website that is [TS]

01:06:37 ◼   ► implicitly saying this is a thing this ad is worth you seen and is OK and then [TS]

01:06:44 ◼   ► you have this other thing which is saying this is something that should be [TS]

01:06:47 ◼   ► brought and there's no way to square that yeah that's true I mean that's that [TS]

01:06:54 ◼   ► was part of the problem is that this was this was an unsolvable problem you know [TS]

01:07:00 ◼   ► it was I can I could say that I no longer want any web ads to exist I can I [TS]

01:07:05 ◼   ► could leave the deck the deck and from a site I could I could try to distinguish [TS]

01:07:14 ◼   ► I could try to differentiate I could say well I'm not allow acceptable ads [TS]

01:07:19 ◼   ► we see the problem that causes when other sites try their other bloggers try [TS]

01:07:24 ◼   ► that we see that that's extremely messy and controversial and and I that's you [TS]

01:07:30 ◼   ► know I don't want to be in that business and you know or I can I can try to [TS]

01:07:35 ◼   ► differentiate between well I'm going to block ads but not trackers and repeats [TS]

01:07:41 ◼   ► you like it you can't really make that differentiation because if you want to [TS]

01:07:46 ◼   ► block tracking you have to block almost all ads so it you know and and trying to [TS]

01:07:53 ◼   ► trying to keep up the list of what belongs on the other side of that almost [TS]

01:07:58 ◼   ► is is very politically charged it is very subjective it's very messy and [TS]

01:08:05 ◼   ► arguable and vague as to what you know what kind of atoms ok what kind of a [TS]

01:08:11 ◼   ► decision is not a tracker what is what it what is tracking include in it it's [TS]

01:08:16 ◼   ► it's it's such a messy world of vague distinctions and impossible problems and [TS]

01:08:24 ◼   ► whatever decision you make people are going to disagree with it and so [TS]

01:08:28 ◼   ► actually the safest most defensible position that a blocker can take is to [TS]

01:08:35 ◼   ► his body everything like the head that is the most defensible position that I [TS]

01:08:39 ◼   ► think that most of them can take and they just have to own what they actually [TS]

01:08:43 ◼   ► are and is this is the part I had a problem with like you can't just say I'm [TS]

01:08:47 ◼   ► gonna block trackers an ominous serve only good you have to hit some people in [TS]

01:08:53 ◼   ► in a process of being effective likes some people have to lose and some of [TS]

01:08:58 ◼   ► them are gonna be good people like the decking and we know all these people [TS]

01:09:02 ◼   ► these are good people but if you're saying I'm selling an ad blocker it has [TS]

01:09:06 ◼   ► to block the deck and and it's weird and if you if you sell an ad blocker and you [TS]

01:09:12 ◼   ► know about the deck and you know the decades ads and you whitelist it or you [TS]

01:09:17 ◼   ► you explicitly like goin omitted from your database that once it was already [TS]

01:09:21 ◼   ► there and you're selling people a blocker then you're lying to your [TS]

01:09:26 ◼   ► customers [TS]

01:09:27 ◼   ► that's why I don't think you should call it an ad blocker I think and I but if [TS]

01:09:30 ◼   ► you don't call it a blocker nobody buys it [TS]

01:09:32 ◼   ► at the problem you know it's it's a terrible business I think that I don't [TS]

01:09:37 ◼   ► know that no one would buy it I mean what to do how did you what did the [TS]

01:09:42 ◼   ► marketing materials for peace [TS]

01:09:43 ◼   ► described it as it said peace block ads and trackers power by guest blog web ads [TS]

01:09:51 ◼   ► and records I would have said something to the effective while I wouldn't use [TS]

01:09:56 ◼   ► the word crappy but block crappy ads and trackers and think of you know put that [TS]

01:10:01 ◼   ► it off the top of my head I can't think of the way I would say that but that [TS]

01:10:06 ◼   ► would be the gist of what I would get a cross inverted very few words block [TS]

01:10:09 ◼   ► crappy ads and trackers and then that led to you [TS]

01:10:12 ◼   ► whitelist and and there are like one of the most popular ones right now and then [TS]

01:10:17 ◼   ► one if anybody wants recommendation right now the 1 I'm using is one blogger [TS]

01:10:20 ◼   ► and by the by default one blogger does not block the deck exchanged some emails [TS]

01:10:28 ◼   ► with Ben Brooks is doing a lot of work at Brooks reportedly really serious [TS]

01:10:33 ◼   ► yeoman's work especially if he's you know he's like restarting his iPhone in [TS]

01:10:37 ◼   ► between testing these things just the store to get it to his neutral estate [TS]

01:10:40 ◼   ► and clear the judge was good as you said like the system is buggy [TS]

01:10:43 ◼   ► energy it's really hard to know for sure with something simple and sometimes the [TS]

01:10:48 ◼   ► system like I had to make a test URL that like on pieces website at Estoril [TS]

01:10:54 ◼   ► that would load and would try to redirect to something that piece blocked [TS]

01:10:58 ◼   ► and then would detect whether the redirect succeeded or not a notice and [TS]

01:11:01 ◼   ► so like I had his butt in the Abu just test installation and it would like a [TS]

01:11:05 ◼   ► WebView for 2nd Ave and tell you what happened but in a very buggy it's a very [TS]

01:11:12 ◼   ► buggy system would i'm looking for in an ad blocker or content blocker on call [TS]

01:11:19 ◼   ► Fri wes is I want one that is fast and noticeably improves the browsing [TS]

01:11:24 ◼   ► experience you know I made iPhone [TS]

01:11:27 ◼   ► blocks as much like pernicious stuff like the type of ad that like cover-up [TS]

01:11:35 ◼   ► pop up in full-page blocked the page on looking at block stuff like that doesn't [TS]

01:11:43 ◼   ► block the debt by the fall and that's it and nobody agrees on where that line is [TS]

01:11:52 ◼   ► I agree I agree and that's you know obviously there's gotta be so one of the [TS]

01:11:56 ◼   ► other way to look at it is no no ad blockers going to be perfect absolutely [TS]

01:12:00 ◼   ► not detained and even if it you could say right now at this moment as I [TS]

01:12:04 ◼   ► submitted to the App Store I think it's close to perfect as I can get it in [TS]

01:12:07 ◼   ► terms of what it blocks and what it doesn't by next week that's going to be [TS]

01:12:11 ◼   ► different because some of the people you block are going to find workarounds some [TS]

01:12:16 ◼   ► of the ones you don't might clean up their policies it's it's fully dynamic [TS]

01:12:19 ◼   ► but what I would but I would suggest and when I really think is possible and what [TS]

01:12:24 ◼   ► I think for example one blogger right now is evidence of is that what you have [TS]

01:12:29 ◼   ► to do is pick which side of perfection you're going to be on are you gonna be [TS]

01:12:33 ◼   ► as your blocker going to be on the side of letting through some stuff that [TS]

01:12:37 ◼   ► probably should be blocked or is it gonna be on the side of erring on the [TS]

01:12:42 ◼   ► side of blocking some stuff that shouldn't be blocked and I think it's [TS]

01:12:45 ◼   ► possible I think it's possible to build an ad blocker or content blog or [TS]

01:12:50 ◼   ► whatever you wanna call it that isn't over aggressive and so therefore erred [TS]

01:12:56 ◼   ► on the side of maybe there will be some things they get through that that you [TS]

01:12:59 ◼   ► wish to get through but that overall gives you a really fast browsing [TS]

01:13:03 ◼   ► experience in blocks most of the stuff you want and doesn't punish people who [TS]

01:13:07 ◼   ► are doing it the right way and are serving things that shouldn't be bought [TS]

01:13:11 ◼   ► I think that possible in one blogger is is the best proof of it today that they [TS]

01:13:17 ◼   ► could be done but the fact is that was amazing to me is that in Ben Brooks [TS]

01:13:23 ◼   ► testing and he's I think he's up to like 32 these I was content blockers that [TS]

01:13:27 ◼   ► he's tracked in his testing one blogger isn't just fast it's the fastest and I [TS]

01:13:33 ◼   ► know where peace was taken peace out of that but [TS]

01:13:36 ◼   ► the only one that faster is it was roughly in the middle when he still had [TS]

01:13:40 ◼   ► it in the only one that faster is some crazy one that i think is sort of like [TS]

01:13:44 ◼   ► the one you wrote this summer that just blocks third-party JavaScript there's [TS]

01:13:48 ◼   ► one that makes that that is head and shoulders faster than anything but it [TS]

01:13:53 ◼   ► breaks have the internet like he he I forget the name of it it's got a funny [TS]

01:13:58 ◼   ► name to put it there's a whole bunch of like mainstream states that just render [TS]

01:14:02 ◼   ► is always a white box no I actually I had that issue with with my first my [TS]

01:14:10 ◼   ► first version of of peace before negotiate the deal with the grocery it [TS]

01:14:14 ◼   ► literally just bought all third-party JavaScript and the finding is how well [TS]

01:14:18 ◼   ► that works most of the time it's it's called scripts crap that's a wonderfully [TS]

01:14:24 ◼   ► awkward names like it that approach actually works [TS]

01:14:29 ◼   ► the vast majority of the time but it's it's one of those things were like if [TS]

01:14:33 ◼   ► the error rate [TS]

01:14:34 ◼   ► like it if the pages it breaks it breaks on 10% of pages well that's actually [TS]

01:14:38 ◼   ► very annoying and practice like that that's too high of a break a tree and [TS]

01:14:43 ◼   ► the reason I won't go story instead was because it was the solution I found that [TS]

01:14:48 ◼   ► had that had the lowest rate of sites that broke like things that actually [TS]

01:14:53 ◼   ► just stopped working because like a lot of sites will tie in weird ways to like [TS]

01:14:58 ◼   ► this especially analytics packages and especially Adobe Omniture that is one [TS]

01:15:02 ◼   ► like Apple site breaks with without that a bunch of sites like that like [TS]

01:15:06 ◼   ► functionality actually stops if you don't have certain trackers enabling go [TS]

01:15:10 ◼   ► story actually keeps a database of that and and built it into their to their [TS]

01:15:14 ◼   ► extension to try to like white list later took to try to whitelist things [TS]

01:15:20 ◼   ► like that that are fairly innocent on certain sites that are required from to [TS]

01:15:26 ◼   ► work properly and the bad they maintain a list of sites that break with you know [TS]

01:15:30 ◼   ► for example amateur disabled and that's all I forget what it was [TS]

01:15:35 ◼   ► couldn't as a part of Apple's developer website that I couldn't get working as [TS]

01:15:40 ◼   ► going on [TS]

01:15:42 ◼   ► and it just occurred to me it was like wait list this industry and I did it [TS]

01:15:47 ◼   ► work [TS]

01:15:48 ◼   ► the site I never thought that I would have to stick around and go story it was [TS]

01:15:51 ◼   ► apple.com it's literally has no add you know unless you consider the entire [TS]

01:15:56 ◼   ► website and it has no ads are you think of this web but it actually breaks with [TS]

01:16:02 ◼   ► that I think it was exactly that and that's why I don't even think of [TS]

01:16:09 ◼   ► analytics think but you know one of the one of the problems that one of the [TS]

01:16:12 ◼   ► reasons why we have such obscenely rampant and over the top tracking on the [TS]

01:16:17 ◼   ► web is this piss culture of data people nearly everything it is considered [TS]

01:16:22 ◼   ► outrageous and obscene and and reckless if you run a website today that doesn't [TS]

01:16:29 ◼   ► do very detailed analytics and behavioral tracking like if you if you [TS]

01:16:33 ◼   ► have access to quote data and you're not collecting it or not [TS]

01:16:38 ◼   ► mining it and analyzing it for eyeballs and various other body parts like it is [TS]

01:16:42 ◼   ► it like that if you're considered like negligent almost in an owner of a [TS]

01:16:46 ◼   ► website not doing all this tracking like that the standard industry wisdom and [TS]

01:16:50 ◼   ► the pressure from everywhere in the industry is to track as much as you [TS]

01:16:54 ◼   ► possibly can and and this is going to be here if you want one of the issues with [TS]

01:17:00 ◼   ► this that that is still mostly under the radar is tracking happening inside of [TS]

01:17:06 ◼   ► apps that can't be blocked by Safaricom ten-block yeah I would definitely like [TS]

01:17:11 ◼   ► Twitter is famous for like always pushing the boundaries of like like they [TS]

01:17:15 ◼   ► they they had this database of like something like over a thousand URL [TS]

01:17:20 ◼   ► schemes custom iOS app URL schemes that they that they would call can OpenURL [TS]

01:17:25 ◼   ► on the system API and that would tell them which of these URL scheme to [TS]

01:17:29 ◼   ► register them they could then derive which apps to each user have installed [TS]

01:17:34 ◼   ► and they can tailor their ads and they could sell their head they could they [TS]

01:17:37 ◼   ► could actually sell people the idea of we can show your Twitter at two people [TS]

01:17:41 ◼   ► who have this particular app installed and then and that that was so egregious [TS]

01:17:47 ◼   ► of a privacy violation that Apple civilians research about 90 S nine and [TS]

01:17:51 ◼   ► they actually kinda broke it for [TS]

01:17:53 ◼   ► uses like that [TS]

01:17:55 ◼   ► so in other words just to explain why I know David I'm just for anybody who [TS]

01:18:00 ◼   ► would if that went over your head so the wave sandbox in works by Wes an app that [TS]

01:18:07 ◼   ► plays by the rules and uses tipped passes the test that they do the united [TS]

01:18:11 ◼   ► in private API's can't really look outside it [TS]

01:18:14 ◼   ► sandbox and look at the file system and see what's in your iPhone's / [TS]

01:18:21 ◼   ► Applications folder [TS]

01:18:23 ◼   ► can't do it but what triggered it and I'm sure other people did between her I [TS]

01:18:28 ◼   ► guess really walk far is when I got caught when a custom app like Instapaper [TS]

01:18:33 ◼   ► hasn't Instapaper colon slash slash URL scheme and then you know the idea of the [TS]

01:18:39 ◼   ► URL scheme is a that way another app can integrate with Instapaper this is really [TS]

01:18:45 ◼   ► really common in pre shearing sheep days where you know apps would only will [TS]

01:18:49 ◼   ► really way that Apple could communicate with each other [TS]

01:18:52 ◼   ► want you know Instapaper communicating with weed pot or something like that was [TS]

01:18:56 ◼   ► true but URL scheme so if if tweet but was going to integrate with Instapaper [TS]

01:19:02 ◼   ► used to get you you know is that how we buy used to integrate with Instapaper as [TS]

01:19:09 ◼   ► far as I remember yet almost all the all their clients and eventually and but [TS]

01:19:14 ◼   ► through a custom URL scheme but then to make a nice user experience there was an [TS]

01:19:18 ◼   ► API so Twitter Tweet pot or whatever app you know Twitterrific whoever would call [TS]

01:19:23 ◼   ► if I send an instant paper colon slash slash URL is it going to be handled yes [TS]

01:19:30 ◼   ► or no and then if the answer is no I go with anyone having to pay per install [TS]

01:19:33 ◼   ► they won't even given the option so Twitter you survey any of a thousand [TS]

01:19:39 ◼   ► apps are installed on the system and used it and then they of course no your [TS]

01:19:43 ◼   ► Twitter account your login to Twitter using Twitter and he would transmit that [TS]

01:19:47 ◼   ► data back to Twitter and would save it probably forever in your account in [TS]

01:19:51 ◼   ► their ad analytics databases like it all this creepy stuff that made possible by [TS]

01:19:55 ◼   ► this relatively innocent intending system maybe I yeah so that but this [TS]

01:19:59 ◼   ► sort of a tangent but it absolutely gets to something that is a false accusation [TS]

01:20:04 ◼   ► against me which is that [TS]

01:20:06 ◼   ► in in my defense of the problem that some people seem to have with my take on [TS]

01:20:14 ◼   ► this is that I'm not an absolutist that I don't feel like I feel like there's [TS]

01:20:22 ◼   ► some people who want to say that if you're going to block some magic have to [TS]

01:20:25 ◼   ► block them all and if you're going to whitelist some had you have to see them [TS]

01:20:29 ◼   ► and I i does I think that bullshit I think it's probably bullshit because [TS]

01:20:35 ◼   ► people are just what I'm suggesting which is traded you know used weightless [TS]

01:20:41 ◼   ► and default for your ad blocker that strike a middle ground and again who [TS]

01:20:46 ◼   ► defines a middle ground and whether different people have significantly [TS]

01:20:50 ◼   ► different taste on where that line is drawn absolutely and who knows how [TS]

01:20:53 ◼   ► sketchy but I absolutely think that someone who wants to take the absolutist [TS]

01:20:58 ◼   ► all or nothing approach is is being stubbornly idealistic I don't know what [TS]

01:21:05 ◼   ► the word is but it's an inner fooling themselves but the false accusation [TS]

01:21:12 ◼   ► against me is that I'm somehow because I'm in the bag for Apple Pro Apple I'm [TS]

01:21:17 ◼   ► on board without destroying the open Internet and taking us to a world where [TS]

01:21:23 ◼   ► there's nothing but apps from the App Store and that falls for a couple of his [TS]

01:21:28 ◼   ► number one my life's work is on a website and I don't have an app for it [TS]

01:21:32 ◼   ► there is no during possible and I still have no plans to make one my side is in [TS]

01:21:39 ◼   ► Apple news I haven't done anything related to it I really don't even [TS]

01:21:43 ◼   ► understand how this works I might I might do something with their stuff I [TS]

01:21:49 ◼   ► haven't really looked area I would be I would not be in favor of most people [TS]

01:21:57 ◼   ► reading my side door openers in favor of that [TS]

01:22:01 ◼   ► and lastly I don't think I i'm just as suspicious and concerned about the [TS]

01:22:06 ◼   ► tracking what's going on in native apps as a break his native apps like the web [TS]

01:22:13 ◼   ► the web can do a lot more egregious things they can do a lot more cross-site [TS]

01:22:17 ◼   ► tracking tracking between different sites by third parties the Web makes a [TS]

01:22:22 ◼   ► lot more that possible [TS]

01:22:23 ◼   ► apps you're you're mostly mean depending on what they've been greater but you're [TS]

01:22:27 ◼   ► mostly in apps limited to the maker of the app track new themselves and again [TS]

01:22:35 ◼   ► there are there are some exceptions but third-party packages but for the most [TS]

01:22:38 ◼   ► part that's going on and so you do have to worry about things like like like the [TS]

01:22:43 ◼   ► big big social apps which again when you're talking about if you want to [TS]

01:22:48 ◼   ► block tracking you got a block social and although social religious there that [TS]

01:22:52 ◼   ► are in on all the sites you to block the fancy Richard prickly formatted Twitter [TS]

01:22:57 ◼   ► in beds that people in bed a blog post you would probably also have to block [TS]

01:23:00 ◼   ► embedded YouTube players because that's owned by Google a massive ad tracking [TS]

01:23:05 ◼   ► company you know there's a lot you have to block if you want to block if you [TS]

01:23:08 ◼   ► want to truly block tracking [TS]

01:23:10 ◼   ► take a look at YouTube's a good example because it's so ubiquitous that it's [TS]

01:23:16 ◼   ► central to the modern web landscape but if you ever just do a view source on a [TS]

01:23:21 ◼   ► page with a YouTube in bed and just start going down the rabbit hole of the [TS]

01:23:26 ◼   ► iframe and and what's going on there i mean it's almost impossible to follow [TS]

01:23:30 ◼   ► along but you can see that it is nothing even vaguely resembling a video tag with [TS]

01:23:37 ◼   ► the source pointing to the URL exactly it is you know I'll bed like a single [TS]

01:23:45 ◼   ► YouTube in bed would probably involve more mark-up let alone JavaScript just [TS]

01:23:49 ◼   ► more mark-up than the entirety of like a typical daring fireball page exactly [TS]

01:23:54 ◼   ► yeah but but you know what app tracking you know your your they can do more [TS]

01:24:01 ◼   ► detailed tracking of you but in a narrower scope like you're not usually [TS]

01:24:06 ◼   ► like if you open up a random random applique you know there's there's a new [TS]

01:24:12 ◼   ► game from the crossroad people [TS]

01:24:14 ◼   ► guys or something today and I doubt that and knowing like you know what's the [TS]

01:24:19 ◼   ► most you can really do here like i know i Oso sandbox and everything they're not [TS]

01:24:23 ◼   ► be able to get all my other data they're not gonna be able to have a unique [TS]

01:24:26 ◼   ► identifier tied to me that they can use in you know fifty other apps that are [TS]

01:24:31 ◼   ► even published by then and you know some of the third party thing to do at the [TS]

01:24:34 ◼   ► crossroad people have a new app called she's guys I haven't lost yet and I was [TS]

01:24:41 ◼   ► gonna play it tonight [TS]

01:24:44 ◼   ► planning late in the second half of the talk show up later on your advert ya [TS]

01:24:50 ◼   ► know I always pay attention it never get them so is it nice do you like to enjoy [TS]

01:24:59 ◼   ► not having to do them as you do mine ATP [TS]

01:25:02 ◼   ► this is a great like it's great to show up to a podcast just talk and not have [TS]

01:25:07 ◼   ► to worry about like I gotta get sponsors ready to make sure I have a script for [TS]

01:25:11 ◼   ► all them and if i dont gotta write a review and everything is there ever been [TS]

01:25:15 ◼   ► any discussion about when Casey do some [TS]

01:25:18 ◼   ► talked about it assumed yeah he's so much nicer than me John you should do it [TS]

01:25:25 ◼   ► but John does the toaster ovens which is the greatest single greatest ad campaign [TS]

01:25:31 ◼   ► in my opinion in podcast history is going this week is that there's a [TS]

01:25:36 ◼   ► toaster week this week it's a good one it is a really good one [TS]

01:25:41 ◼   ► its cards against humanity he's campaign ad for any VI I'm guessing is enormous [TS]

01:25:47 ◼   ► number of the people listening to this episode listen to ATP as well but for [TS]

01:25:51 ◼   ► those of you who don't on accident tech podcast there is a year-long maybe over [TS]

01:25:57 ◼   ► a year long it this whole counter it's it's almost over from cards against [TS]

01:26:03 ◼   ► humanity and the entirety of the ad campaign there is absolutely no talking [TS]

01:26:07 ◼   ► points about the game itself [TS]

01:26:10 ◼   ► they just send chance if accuse the toaster oven ever every time an ad is [TS]

01:26:16 ◼   ► coming up once a month 12 month they send him a toaster oven any and I'll air [TS]

01:26:24 ◼   ► the entire roll the ad is for John to use review at a new toaster oven every [TS]

01:26:30 ◼   ► month talk about the dials talk about how well it works for you know what [TS]

01:26:35 ◼   ► egregious design mistakes that they've made turns out there's a lot of really [TS]

01:26:40 ◼   ► badly designed toaster ovens out there he takes it totally serious as of course [TS]

01:26:47 ◼   ► it does it's a fantastic but it must be nice I enjoy when I'm done it is quite [TS]

01:26:54 ◼   ► nice even though I do enjoy enjoy doing these reeds though I've gotten I think [TS]

01:26:57 ◼   ► I've gotten better at it and I enjoy it because I've gotten to the point now [TS]

01:27:00 ◼   ► where I feel like it's a game or I'm trying to keep people from hitting the [TS]

01:27:05 ◼   ► 32nd skip really and if you do if you know you know it is what it is and you [TS]

01:27:11 ◼   ► know it finding it was a tad blocking right i mean the ties into it [TS]

01:27:17 ◼   ► similar it's it's like that it's not quite the same but very similar it's [TS]

01:27:21 ◼   ► it's a niche in the ballpark for her I actually saw somebody on Twitter in in [TS]

01:27:26 ◼   ► at at peak peace controversy think that's so funny that I think it was such [TS]

01:27:31 ◼   ► a good name for a blocker think it's so funny that the way that it played out [TS]

01:27:37 ◼   ► was so peaceful for you but I saw somebody who who tweeted something to [TS]

01:27:48 ◼   ► the effect of its actually pretty clear idea that somebody who rides a podcast [TS]

01:27:53 ◼   ► client did you know any given episode of a show if you tracked people's use of 30 [TS]

01:28:01 ◼   ► seconds kept you could probably very easily pinpoint where the sponsor breaks [TS]

01:28:08 ◼   ► are new episodes right and and you know this is like I thought this feature two [TS]

01:28:13 ◼   ► years ago I think everybody who has made a podcast app has taught us feature [TS]

01:28:17 ◼   ► especially ones Amazon launched their shared highlights for Kindles [TS]

01:28:22 ◼   ► is very similar to that you know it's like you can attract highlight and then [TS]

01:28:26 ◼   ► things get however a lot you can say is important and you can default to hit [TS]

01:28:30 ◼   ► them where you could in a podcast app yeah you could track what's being scared [TS]

01:28:33 ◼   ► and sections are pockets are skipped a lot you can have an option to [TS]

01:28:36 ◼   ► automatically just skip them and first of all you know it would be hard to make [TS]

01:28:42 ◼   ► that work very well in a way that would annoy people and that would be obvious [TS]

01:28:46 ◼   ► what's happening but second of all I think like I've talked to other podcast [TS]

01:28:52 ◼   ► app makers and mentioned this before and everyone else is the same thing I [TS]

01:28:56 ◼   ► thought which is I don't want to do that to podcasting because I know like that [TS]

01:29:03 ◼   ► would be weird by nature hurt podcasting and I don't want to do that I you know [TS]

01:29:09 ◼   ► and I i feel like i I thought the other thing is that it's it's so respectful [TS]

01:29:15 ◼   ► you know it's just time you know and it's you know I have gone before the [TS]

01:29:21 ◼   ► summer episodes just because I've fallen way behind a weekly schedule but very [TS]

01:29:26 ◼   ► long and so I absolutely ice to stick to never more than one and a half hour [TS]

01:29:31 ◼   ► which I feel like it's pretty fair and compares extremely favorably to [TS]

01:29:36 ◼   ► terrestrial radio oh my god and not even close and even compares I think very [TS]

01:29:43 ◼   ► well too [TS]

01:29:44 ◼   ► the Howard Stern Show on serious like amy amy is a huge howard stern fan and [TS]

01:29:51 ◼   ► she still annoyed by the fact that the whole thing that hit structure is in the [TS]

01:29:56 ◼   ► first place [TS]

01:29:56 ◼   ► commercial free and then Iraq [TS]

01:29:56 ◼   ► commercial free and then Iraq [TS]

01:30:00 ◼   ► as we can tell the whole lot of very expensive and I don't know why I think [TS]

01:30:05 ◼   ► in history own airfare expensive I bought them before [TS]

01:30:08 ◼   ► well but from their perspective in the aggregate there I'm not saying it is but [TS]

01:30:13 ◼   ► I think that I don't think that they could do and on the day could only get [TS]

01:30:17 ◼   ► paid salary if it wasn't for that I don't know I disagree you think you can [TS]

01:30:24 ◼   ► go you think I paid less for a live read on his show then what you and I charge [TS]

01:30:29 ◼   ► for live radar shows right now so many serious and amazing you got you got [TS]

01:30:36 ◼   ► Howard actually read it [TS]

01:30:38 ◼   ► yeah yeah it's still alive read that's why it's valuable was really great it [TS]

01:30:43 ◼   ► was a really cool thing but anyway I just feel like that again its [TS]

01:30:48 ◼   ► negotiation and I'm sure there are people out there listening right now who [TS]

01:30:52 ◼   ► even though I told them not to get the thirty second thing during the Broward [TS]

01:30:56 ◼   ► thing before and they're probably gonna hit on some of the ones that I'm about [TS]

01:30:59 ◼   ► to do and that's ok I mean you know but my job but I feel like I've gotten [TS]

01:31:04 ◼   ► better enough doing this and i feel like im still attracting interesting enough [TS]

01:31:08 ◼   ► group of sponsors that it's a fun game for me when I do to try to keno you know [TS]

01:31:15 ◼   ► I am i doing I'm imagining a listener with his dumb hovering over the thirty [TS]

01:31:21 ◼   ► seconds kept trying to keep pressing or at least only avenue president yeah [TS]

01:31:26 ◼   ► there's some value in it like for example I will I'll break right into one [TS]

01:31:31 ◼   ► right now and here's one that I bet somebody but a fair number of people [TS]

01:31:35 ◼   ► with 30 seconds kept because they are here almost every single week at our [TS]

01:31:39 ◼   ► friends at fracture fracture of the people who bring your photos unless they [TS]

01:31:48 ◼   ► sponsor the show all the time and the reason I keep coming back is cos you [TS]

01:31:53 ◼   ► guys out there keep buying pictures from them so you're probably familiar with [TS]

01:31:58 ◼   ► them [TS]

01:31:59 ◼   ► really high-quality printing the print on the back of the glass you send them a [TS]

01:32:02 ◼   ► photo of a pin on the back of the class it's right there on the glass not like a [TS]

01:32:05 ◼   ► piece of paper stuck to it is not a frame paper behind glass right there on [TS]

01:32:10 ◼   ► the class really really nice the best way to get actual analog versions of [TS]

01:32:15 ◼   ► your photos that I've ever seen because there's no work involved just upload the [TS]

01:32:19 ◼   ► photo and then it comes back to you and it's all nice and ready to go [TS]

01:32:22 ◼   ► they do have that she have a special message that they want me to get across [TS]

01:32:27 ◼   ► it's only October 1st is a record clearly a big part of fractures market [TS]

01:32:33 ◼   ► is gifts people buying photos for gifts and obviously the holiday season is [TS]

01:32:39 ◼   ► coming up [TS]

01:32:40 ◼   ► October 1st does not sound like it's close to the holidays nobody's I don't [TS]

01:32:43 ◼   ► think holiday decorations seem to go up earlier and earlier in retail [TS]

01:32:48 ◼   ► usually people this way to holding a pumpkin spice season right now [TS]

01:32:52 ◼   ► yeah exactly gotta wait till pumpkin spice goes away but fracture want me to [TS]

01:32:58 ◼   ► remind you that they do get backed up at the holidays and so this might be a good [TS]

01:33:05 ◼   ► way to does knock out a couple of your Christmas gifts a really really early [TS]

01:33:09 ◼   ► and not worry about cutting it close in getting caught behind because that by [TS]

01:33:13 ◼   ► the end of December they actually can't keep up and you can't do it [TS]

01:33:16 ◼   ► last-minute get in time for Christmas because they're so so busy so think [TS]

01:33:22 ◼   ► about it think about the people who might want to give a fracture image 24 [TS]

01:33:27 ◼   ► the holidays and get it over with now just do it and you'll feel better you'll [TS]

01:33:31 ◼   ► know you have you know someone in your office boxes packed up you've already [TS]

01:33:35 ◼   ► got some your Christmas gifts knocked out ready to go [TS]

01:33:38 ◼   ► really is a good gift we do it every year i I can't even imagine until [TS]

01:33:42 ◼   ► fracture isn't even around anymore I can imagine it up [TS]

01:33:45 ◼   ► holiday seasons gonna go by we don't get some of these for some of the people in [TS]

01:33:48 ◼   ► our family really really great stuff [TS]

01:33:51 ◼   ► where do you go to find out more their website is fracture me.com and their URL [TS]

01:34:01 ◼   ► code is daring fireball and if you've never ordered from them before use that [TS]

01:34:07 ◼   ► code daring fireball and you will save 15% off your listeners first order and [TS]

01:34:14 ◼   ► if you listen to the show if you like a Markov and you could use the code ATP [TS]

01:34:17 ◼   ► and you'll stay the same amount and you give the the Mojo 22 the accident [TS]

01:34:23 ◼   ► tech podcast 8314 8315 [TS]

01:34:29 ◼   ► change used to be a TV right or did they think I think in 2015 I think it became [TS]

01:34:34 ◼   ► me to be there any way you could even water that you know their responses [TS]

01:34:37 ◼   ► before 2015 have been long-term sponsors anyway it's all good they're a great [TS]

01:34:42 ◼   ► company with a truly truly great product and you know if you've ever wondered why [TS]

01:34:47 ◼   ► in the world do they keep sponsoring these podcasts I swear it's because [TS]

01:34:50 ◼   ► people keep buying the fractures from them so keep it up and it really really [TS]

01:34:54 ◼   ► can't say enough about the gift couple weeks ago about to another one they make [TS]

01:34:58 ◼   ► great gifts yeah you get you do get concerned most of the people in your [TS]

01:35:02 ◼   ► family probably don't listen to podcast just like mine said they have no idea [TS]

01:35:06 ◼   ► and when they see them they really is like a hole like wow how did the world [TS]

01:35:10 ◼   ► did you make this and you know you could tell it fractured meed.com and I i have [TS]

01:35:17 ◼   ► severe gift-giving anxiety every year and to have it to have an easy solution [TS]

01:35:23 ◼   ► that's kinda like a go to think I don't know what to get someone in my family I [TS]

01:35:27 ◼   ► can get them a cute picture of you know my grandparents or my kid or something [TS]

01:35:31 ◼   ► you know that works out well I don't know why I'm always envious of your ad [TS]

01:35:37 ◼   ► reads UN hello internet I think do the best live read like her as bass turds [TS]

01:35:41 ◼   ► those cases they aren't a frustratingly good that actually cuz it again i said i [TS]

01:35:47 ◼   ► do I don't like I listen to yours because I want to see how you do it you [TS]

01:35:51 ◼   ► know it you know like okay at Squarespace again what you gonna do you [TS]

01:35:57 ◼   ► know it's a chance [TS]

01:35:58 ◼   ► it is cuz I die I want to keep it fresh for people who aren't skipping I don't [TS]

01:36:03 ◼   ► want to say the same thing every time the Hello energized god they're really [TS]

01:36:08 ◼   ► good at it like it's frustrating enough that their podcast so good in general [TS]

01:36:11 ◼   ► but that they also just kill it on the ad reads and that they require like I've [TS]

01:36:16 ◼   ► always wanted to try recording the ads separately from the show and dropping [TS]

01:36:20 ◼   ► them in afterwards because I don't like doing it during the show because it it [TS]

01:36:25 ◼   ► makes me pay attention to something else during the show rather than what my [TS]

01:36:29 ◼   ► co-stars talking about and like I always have my mind right now I'm going to be [TS]

01:36:35 ◼   ► loaded up on screen maybe read a couple times first like and i'm having to do [TS]

01:36:38 ◼   ► all that as Casey or John are talking about something that and so I'm not [TS]

01:36:42 ◼   ► listening to them i'm looking at an ad and so they feel it makes the show worse [TS]

01:36:45 ◼   ► but I i dont know I haven't figured out how to do it well yet maybe I'll have to [TS]

01:36:50 ◼   ► try it sometime [TS]

01:36:51 ◼   ► i've i've been given serious thought the exact same thing and I might play with [TS]

01:36:55 ◼   ► it they feel like it's a sort of thing I can say I can play with and it's not [TS]

01:36:58 ◼   ► irrevocable you know yeah but I feel like you do need some kind of sound [TS]

01:37:02 ◼   ► effects are intended that I don't have one of those ready and it's one of the [TS]

01:37:05 ◼   ► things I haven't done it yet if you just try to drop it in you sound different [TS]

01:37:09 ◼   ► and everyone notices like it is very obvious like this is recorded at a [TS]

01:37:13 ◼   ► different time your voice is more or less tired rasputin it was like in the [TS]

01:37:18 ◼   ► surrounding parts of the show you can hear maybe the rooms and a little bit [TS]

01:37:21 ◼   ► different maybe it's a little bit more echo -e are you reading the Michael a [TS]

01:37:24 ◼   ► bit further away or a different Mike two weeks ago or something like you can [TS]

01:37:28 ◼   ► always tell when it's recorded at different times have you ever noticed me [TS]

01:37:32 ◼   ► I've done that a few times have you ever noticed yeah every time I do it every [TS]

01:37:36 ◼   ► time I listen to podcast I'm terrible headphones and I noticed every time but [TS]

01:37:41 ◼   ► that's just me I'm a nerd but yes if I switch to that when when I have done [TS]

01:37:45 ◼   ► it's because something has changed either I've made a terrible mistake or [TS]

01:37:50 ◼   ► somebody else has made a mistake and [TS]

01:37:52 ◼   ► or or I didn't get it in time you know that there was some kind of [TS]

01:37:56 ◼   ► communication problems like crap I told you I don't have it I just fill it in [TS]

01:38:02 ◼   ► later and you know when I've done in the past I've tried to fake it as best we [TS]

01:38:06 ◼   ► can to do it and if it doesn't come out perfectly so what if I were to switch [TS]

01:38:10 ◼   ► switch to something where it's obvious and it's you know there's a little you [TS]

01:38:13 ◼   ► know sound effect yes I really do think you would like one of the reasons like I [TS]

01:38:21 ◼   ► i've i've always been interested in the idea of trying an ad-free show but ATP [TS]

01:38:26 ◼   ► is so big now and it's not just me that I like you know i'm i'm willing to [TS]

01:38:31 ◼   ► gamble with large amounts of money [TS]

01:38:33 ◼   ► of potential future income but I can't make that decision for two other people [TS]

01:38:37 ◼   ► alone you know this and so I don't wanna rock the boat there but one of the [TS]

01:38:42 ◼   ► reasons I was motivated to even consider rocking the boat there is because I [TS]

01:38:45 ◼   ► don't like doing the ads online because I'm afraid of the attention it's taking [TS]

01:38:50 ◼   ► away of my attention is taking away from the conversation and I think that makes [TS]

01:38:56 ◼   ► it worse I should try that I gotta figure what sounds to book and it wasn't [TS]

01:38:59 ◼   ► just try it and i also like I i heavily edit the ad reads because see this is [TS]

01:39:05 ◼   ► why this is why you frustrate me because I try to catch my ad reads 23 minutes [TS]

01:39:11 ◼   ► and ideally it's you know it's it's at least one and a half and it's at most [TS]

01:39:15 ◼   ► three minutes and I and if I almost always end up running way over that are [TS]

01:39:20 ◼   ► usually are usually do on the live show I usually do a four-minute had read and [TS]

01:39:24 ◼   ► then in the Edit I added it down to fit three and I still feel like I'm not [TS]

01:39:29 ◼   ► saying everything I wanted to say in the read meanwhile you come in here and you [TS]

01:39:33 ◼   ► talk at like one mile an hour during your ad reads can you manage to say [TS]

01:39:37 ◼   ► everything you need to say and they're not longer than three minutes usually [TS]

01:39:41 ◼   ► they're not that much longer or shorter than mine so you managed to somehow say [TS]

01:39:46 ◼   ► way more with way fewer words in the same a time and your sound more relaxed [TS]

01:39:51 ◼   ► and more natural and mine sounds kind of stressed out some training criminal in [TS]

01:39:55 ◼   ► three minutes at how we write I guess maybe minor bruise [TS]

01:39:59 ◼   ► first they were really bad I didn't get e-mails complaining about it I got [TS]

01:40:03 ◼   ► emails very sympathetic emails 703 doing a show without damn Benjamin [TS]

01:40:13 ◼   ► Marco really angered the internet the people who were angry weren't refused to [TS]

01:40:19 ◼   ► listen so they weren't listening and sending me hate me about how bad the [TS]

01:40:23 ◼   ► show was they weren't even listening and they were just get a listener's I got [TS]

01:40:28 ◼   ► some but I think most of them didn't really didn't get a lot of that they [TS]

01:40:33 ◼   ► just went right items terrible one-star reviews and they were done by people who [TS]

01:40:38 ◼   ► listen where people who were in still enjoying it and they were very [TS]

01:40:41 ◼   ► sympathetic but it was sorta like this sort of email I think that you get when [TS]

01:40:46 ◼   ► you know you come down it was exactly like the email I got when I talked about [TS]

01:40:50 ◼   ► the stuff that's happened with my eye and you get these really nice emails [TS]

01:40:53 ◼   ► from people saying how sorry they are really sorry about the way you're doing [TS]

01:40:59 ◼   ► these ad reads it's terrible whose I got you know like I had an affliction [TS]

01:41:06 ◼   ► you picked up pretty quickly I mean I like yet those first few were definitely [TS]

01:41:09 ◼   ► rough I think by like this episode you were pretty much in a group [TS]

01:41:13 ◼   ► well there's anything I did wrong and I'm not a big fan of I can read that [TS]

01:41:17 ◼   ► like the guys know whatever his name is just taken over the Daily Show like he [TS]

01:41:21 ◼   ► did like a whole week or so of test shows shows that are never gonna care [TS]

01:41:25 ◼   ► but real shows they do shows I understand why it is hosting a TV show [TS]

01:41:29 ◼   ► that as tight as the Daily Show really does have two beers but you can't [TS]

01:41:34 ◼   ► rehearse the whole episode because every day it's that day's news so you have to [TS]

01:41:37 ◼   ► get good at it but if there's anything that I should have rehearsed and thrown [TS]

01:41:41 ◼   ► away I should have done [TS]

01:41:42 ◼   ► sponsor reads instead of doing that I should have did record you know not four [TS]

01:41:45 ◼   ► episodes they should have recorded some and in force myself to listen to them [TS]

01:41:50 ◼   ► and do it it didn't take too long ago it took a couple weeks before I got at [TS]

01:41:55 ◼   ► least ok and I guess I could have just skipped the point where I was really [TS]

01:41:59 ◼   ► terrible [TS]

01:42:00 ◼   ► that was that was part of the learning process you know you wouldn't have [TS]

01:42:04 ◼   ► learned it necessarily anyway the thing that really got me was the last episode [TS]

01:42:09 ◼   ► hello internet when Brady did fracture one and it was that he'd sent a picture [TS]

01:42:15 ◼   ► to CGP grey Center fracture to them to him of what was it that you make him [TS]

01:42:23 ◼   ► wrapped one of the two animals that he's been obsessed with Lady know the hand [TS]

01:42:27 ◼   ► there and the other is the official birthday hello internet right but said [TS]

01:42:32 ◼   ► it had sent him a picture that related to an entire huge segment of the show [TS]

01:42:38 ◼   ► that it already been gone so is just had this beautiful serendipity in and really [TS]

01:42:43 ◼   ► made it feel like it was part of the show again like I said I had our content [TS]

01:42:49 ◼   ► part of the country serving as its not something separate and hella winner at [TS]

01:42:54 ◼   ► the way they do it it really does feel like part of the show they they have a [TS]

01:43:03 ◼   ► bit they mention their numbers in the last half they have WAY bigger listener [TS]

01:43:08 ◼   ► basis than we do to it with good reason to their show is awesome and it's like [TS]

01:43:12 ◼   ► people can enjoy that show without being huge tech nerds like our shows you [TS]

01:43:17 ◼   ► pretty much have to be a huge Apple nerds are to really get much out of our [TS]

01:43:19 ◼   ► shows but their show is way more accessible and it really like they they [TS]

01:43:24 ◼   ► joke about long time in a discussion about the two dudes talking podcast [TS]

01:43:28 ◼   ► format which is very calm and especially attitudes talking loosely about tech [TS]

01:43:33 ◼   ► matters but I think what makes their show so grade is that yes there are a [TS]

01:43:38 ◼   ► lot of two dudes talking shows but they really perfected that format like it [TS]

01:43:43 ◼   ► like to have these to specific people talking about whatever they talk about [TS]

01:43:48 ◼   ► like they have amazing host chemistry between the two of them and they're both [TS]

01:43:52 ◼   ► amazing characters like there if they're incredibly amusing to listen to any [TS]

01:43:56 ◼   ► playoff each other well and it's very nicely edit it so you have this [TS]

01:44:00 ◼   ► combination of just like no wonder it's so popular is they're really good at it [TS]

01:44:04 ◼   ► and its early combination begin with they also both have good voices yeah you [TS]

01:44:09 ◼   ► really can't help [TS]

01:44:10 ◼   ► and you know what you gonna do but well that's one thing that I love about [TS]

01:44:14 ◼   ► podcasting though I can be frustrating for like half listeners who want to talk [TS]

01:44:19 ◼   ► about whatever happens happen this week but one thing I love about podcasting [TS]

01:44:23 ◼   ► like when I was a kid I used to I think a lot of people did this especially were [TS]

01:44:28 ◼   ► nerds like me I used to record fake radio shows with my friends who [TS]

01:44:33 ◼   ► basically like us talking into a cassette recorder as if we're on the [TS]

01:44:37 ◼   ► radio and never listening back to it or listening back once and then I'll be [TS]

01:44:41 ◼   ► like I we make these fakery like I always wanted to be a radio deejay and [TS]

01:44:46 ◼   ► the reality is a that is a terrible business of being an actual radio deejay [TS]

01:44:54 ◼   ► is horrible so that's problem number one problem number two is I was never going [TS]

01:45:00 ◼   ► to be a teacher I don't have the right voice I don't speak well enough I [TS]

01:45:04 ◼   ► certainly don't have the background of the opportunity to become a deejay for [TS]

01:45:08 ◼   ► the training like a training like I was never one to be DJIA I just I don't have [TS]

01:45:14 ◼   ► the voice for it I don't have the skills for a time does not cut out for that job [TS]

01:45:18 ◼   ► in the same I'm not going to be like a football player like I'm just such as I [TS]

01:45:22 ◼   ► don't have I'm not the person for that I i'm not i'm not made for that but with [TS]

01:45:27 ◼   ► podcasting it's it's really quite a meritocracy in that like one of the [TS]

01:45:32 ◼   ► views of this medium is that you don't need to attract the wide audience that [TS]

01:45:35 ◼   ► you know TV and radio people do normally like the locality issues and everything [TS]

01:45:40 ◼   ► with this with podcasting even people who talk sloppily and have mediocre [TS]

01:45:46 ◼   ► voices like me can do my job is podcasting I i talked on a version of [TS]

01:45:54 ◼   ► the radio for a living and the the idea that like I'm fulfilled his childhood [TS]

01:45:59 ◼   ► dream this to have always wanted to do that I really am not qualified to do but [TS]

01:46:04 ◼   ► it just happens to work out better in this medium like that is amazing to me [TS]

01:46:08 ◼   ► and as a listener podcasts as a massive listener podcasts I I love listening to [TS]

01:46:14 ◼   ► other shows that are also made by amateurs like me that are just talking [TS]

01:46:19 ◼   ► about interesting stuff and I know [TS]

01:46:22 ◼   ► although but the big lake public radio podcast I don't listen to almost any of [TS]

01:46:26 ◼   ► them because there's so much else going on that I wanna listen to I don't have [TS]

01:46:31 ◼   ► time for them is there so much else is made by amateurs and people like me that [TS]

01:46:36 ◼   ► much more interested in that's much more narrowly focused then like here's a [TS]

01:46:40 ◼   ► story i'ma tell you about something that happened you know if i dont i dont need [TS]

01:46:43 ◼   ► that I have my all my time is filled up with people talking about more narrow [TS]

01:46:49 ◼   ► interest that I like better later but it does make me jealous when I hear the [TS]

01:46:57 ◼   ► professionals hello Internet yeah it is it is frustrating when people are really [TS]

01:47:03 ◼   ► good podcasters who also have really good voices and production and speak [TS]

01:47:06 ◼   ► with their such there too said interesting characters as well and [TS]

01:47:11 ◼   ► exactly a very honest I don't think that they've made up personas into just being [TS]

01:47:15 ◼   ► themselves but they're very very nice very nice fellows absolutely yeah and [TS]

01:47:21 ◼   ► like you know like gray is obviously the straight guy you know he's you know he's [TS]

01:47:29 ◼   ► the more logical and doesn't come up with ideas then but then he's kinda [TS]

01:47:33 ◼   ► crazy tick like this always comes up where he lives [TS]

01:47:38 ◼   ► standby ticket and will wait weeks and weeks and weeks knowing when he's gonna [TS]

01:47:43 ◼   ► fly which is crazy that's why that's so is so great because like you have used [TS]

01:47:49 ◼   ► these great interesting people who end and like the fact that Brady can I tease [TS]

01:47:55 ◼   ► it out of him and then hit him over the head with a constantly they they're able [TS]

01:47:59 ◼   ► to put your buttons extremely well as well like it is it is so good show so [TS]

01:48:05 ◼   ► anybody who hasn't listened to it but there there will be only use it there [TS]

01:48:10 ◼   ► well beyond are the size of our audiences which had been talked about [TS]

01:48:13 ◼   ► for an hour [TS]

01:48:14 ◼   ► deservedly so the funny thing was that they didn't think to they've done a [TS]

01:48:17 ◼   ► thing which is which actually think you bring it up because I was going to bring [TS]

01:48:22 ◼   ► it up so anybody out there do they they did a thing where they solicited for the [TS]

01:48:26 ◼   ► listeners of their show to write to them [TS]

01:48:30 ◼   ► tell them if they listen to the show while doing interesting things like what [TS]

01:48:35 ◼   ► is the context you know something beyond just you know I listen to the show on a [TS]

01:48:39 ◼   ► drive to work you know and there's people who are like there's a good guy [TS]

01:48:43 ◼   ► is like a surgeon he does like surgery on like mice brains because he's [TS]

01:48:48 ◼   ► studying the effects of some kind of scientists and they put the Meister [TS]

01:48:52 ◼   ► estonian and he'd perform surgery on her brain disease there fact so while he's [TS]

01:48:56 ◼   ► doing as he lists one of the things he doesn't listen to podcasts to listen to [TS]

01:48:59 ◼   ► the show that's an interesting thing and they had they had a guy who who manned [TS]

01:49:10 ◼   ► the the latter caught the steps that like Air Force One Air Force One land he [TS]

01:49:17 ◼   ► he's the guy who liked puts the latter up there with the president comes to [TS]

01:49:21 ◼   ► their car right yeah the steric are listened to their show while he does you [TS]

01:49:27 ◼   ► know and and then they even like said like just to make sure that the trouble [TS]

01:49:30 ◼   ► he's very very clear he does this like in the you know like you have to stand [TS]

01:49:34 ◼   ► here and wait for four hours for the hundred and uniting he's not listening [TS]

01:49:38 ◼   ► while the president might be coming down the steps he's you know he's paying [TS]

01:49:42 ◼   ► attention and doing his job but it's obviously get a job with a lot of [TS]

01:49:47 ◼   ► waiting involved because they know the president shows up when the president [TS]

01:49:50 ◼   ► shows up the president isn't running out the clock what an interesting job though [TS]

01:49:55 ◼   ► and i think that that guy is alleviating the tedium of the waiting part of his [TS]

01:50:01 ◼   ► job or while he's off duty or whatever by listening to the show so anybody I [TS]

01:50:05 ◼   ► would I would be interested to know the same thing if there are interesting [TS]

01:50:09 ◼   ► context where people listen to the talk show so you can just email read some of [TS]

01:50:15 ◼   ► them in a future episode I don't know anything about my audience like you said [TS]

01:50:23 ◼   ► like that idea you got it you have to hook up the data and collect all the [TS]

01:50:27 ◼   ► analytics for everything I i dont wanna know I I do like knowing what popular I [TS]

01:50:32 ◼   ► like to try to try to look at the stats just to see if an article is unusually [TS]

01:50:38 ◼   ► popular [TS]

01:50:38 ◼   ► ur and I i like to see in striking know it's you know I like to see referral [TS]

01:50:48 ◼   ► tracking and see if I'm getting an unusual amount of traffic from some [TS]

01:50:51 ◼   ► other popular place for cider tweet you know but in terms of like knowing things [TS]

01:50:58 ◼   ► about the audience i know i dont wanna know that like even even like the [TS]

01:51:04 ◼   ► checking of the mint and everything like back when I wrote that the my previous [TS]

01:51:10 ◼   ► controversy [TS]

01:51:11 ◼   ► the Apple fucking high ground thing after that went crazy I realized that I [TS]

01:51:19 ◼   ► like there was a day like I I just turned off [TS]

01:51:22 ◼   ► analytics for the site during a just kinda like I don't want to be motivated [TS]

01:51:26 ◼   ► by this anymore and it's kind of like if you if you forgot a vacation and and you [TS]

01:51:31 ◼   ► start checking Twitter for a while and then you have such a massive pileup that [TS]

01:51:34 ◼   ► you can't keep up with you guessed it scroll to top and you realize like oh I [TS]

01:51:38 ◼   ► didn't read Twitter for like three or four days and I missed nothing of [TS]

01:51:41 ◼   ► importance of eye-opening well I had a similar kind of thing with with [TS]

01:51:47 ◼   ► analytics on my website where I ran first meant for a while and Google [TS]

01:51:52 ◼   ► Analytics for a while and and [TS]

01:51:55 ◼   ► and eventually I realized when I turned it off for a little while after the in [TS]

01:51:59 ◼   ► the wake of all that drama as I just like I wants me some peace and quiet I [TS]

01:52:04 ◼   ► turned it off for a while and I realized I didn't miss it at all and and part of [TS]

01:52:10 ◼   ► that is a luxury that we have that you know we don't need to really know our [TS]

01:52:14 ◼   ► day-to-day pageviews the deck bills in advance for PC is basically and so we [TS]

01:52:20 ◼   ► are paid a flat rate by the deck based on the general amount of traffic that we [TS]

01:52:25 ◼   ► tend to have gotten over the last 20 years or whatever like my race for the [TS]

01:52:29 ◼   ► deck hasn't changed in years and because my traffic as you know about the same [TS]

01:52:34 ◼   ► and it isn't if I write something that gets all of a sudden a million page [TS]

01:52:39 ◼   ► views out of the blue I'm not going to see a dime for that Tech has pre-sold [TS]

01:52:43 ◼   ► the the ads for that and so they aren't seeing a dime for it and that's just so [TS]

01:52:47 ◼   ► I so we have no incentive to like temporarily juice pageviews or right [TS]

01:52:53 ◼   ► things are going to get temporary traffic really and and so the only [TS]

01:52:58 ◼   ► reason I would really need to run a web analytics of any kind is what you'd like [TS]

01:53:03 ◼   ► for me to know ago where's traffic coming from and where you know what what [TS]

01:53:09 ◼   ► do I write that gets meaningful numbers compared to anything else i right and [TS]

01:53:13 ◼   ► what I realized was that that information was not beneficial to my [TS]

01:53:17 ◼   ► life or my work it it was all it was doing was like being another vanity [TS]

01:53:22 ◼   ► metric second the reality is twitter is a vanity metric now anyway and I should [TS]

01:53:26 ◼   ► stop checking that as well but I still do like I will check the number of [TS]

01:53:30 ◼   ► retweets that like whenever a blog post about it also saw check with number of [TS]

01:53:35 ◼   ► retweets that God and I have some ideas like oh well this one got to this one [TS]

01:53:40 ◼   ► got forty so obviously that resonated with more people but the actual web [TS]

01:53:45 ◼   ► advertiser web tracking that level for everything I've decided that's no longer [TS]

01:53:49 ◼   ► thing that that I need to care about and so i dont wanna yeah I like to know some [TS]

01:53:54 ◼   ► of the user agent stuff and I can get this out of my server logs it's just [TS]

01:54:00 ◼   ► that and that's one thing I've been talking about getting rid of Google [TS]

01:54:04 ◼   ► Analytics I'm going to get seriously just a matter of days they just do it [TS]

01:54:11 ◼   ► tomorrow and mainly because I think that it's private invasive and I i actually [TS]

01:54:18 ◼   ► think that it's wrong of me to to be using Google and they have a very opaque [TS]

01:54:24 ◼   ► privacy policy that as i've read it and I've done this over the years I've been [TS]

01:54:29 ◼   ► using Google Analytics for years and there was a whole year to period where I [TS]

01:54:32 ◼   ► stopped using it and I missed some data like what percentage of my users are [TS]

01:54:38 ◼   ► using which browser and what percentage of them are on iOS vs Mac OS vs other [TS]

01:54:44 ◼   ► operating systems and there's ways to get that without using analytics but [TS]

01:54:47 ◼   ► Google just hooking up Google Analytics was the easiest way to do it and then I [TS]

01:54:52 ◼   ► felt bad because a lot of my long-term stats were entirely out of whack because [TS]

01:54:56 ◼   ► I had this fourteen-month period right shut it off but I've read their private [TS]

01:55:02 ◼   ► the privacy issue is the main thing that makes me want to shut it off [TS]

01:55:05 ◼   ► above and beyond anything else is that I can't shake the suspicion that Google is [TS]

01:55:09 ◼   ► using the cookies this set for Google to track the people who read during [TS]

01:55:14 ◼   ► fireball across the web and using it for advertising even I don't use any Google [TS]

01:55:19 ◼   ► advertising and if you read their privacy policy attempt to me at least to [TS]

01:55:23 ◼   ► me it's a reading of foreign language and it's the way that I'm I'm amazed and [TS]

01:55:27 ◼   ► impressed by attorneys who who write the contracts that run the whole world [TS]

01:55:34 ◼   ► because I think I'm a good reader I've always tested high terms of reading [TS]

01:55:38 ◼   ► comprehension I read most most contracts and I might as well be written in the [TS]

01:55:43 ◼   ► form I don't understand anything I don't understand what is going on in Google's [TS]

01:55:48 ◼   ► privacy policy for analytics is to me that type of privacy policy [TS]

01:55:52 ◼   ► I understand what each of the words mean in in the aggregate I have no idea what [TS]

01:55:57 ◼   ► it means and I've come to the conclusion that if you don't understand what our [TS]

01:56:01 ◼   ► privacy policy means you should do your worst assumptions are probably right [TS]

01:56:05 ◼   ► any know you're right that he'll buy by having Google Analytics on your site you [TS]

01:56:13 ◼   ► are selling your visitors data to Google without their knowledge [TS]

01:56:18 ◼   ► land it's one of the things like it's kind of uncomfortable like you know like [TS]

01:56:21 ◼   ► a lot of things and and web publishing and advertising if you actually face it [TS]

01:56:26 ◼   ► if you actually think about all the ramifications of that and you face the [TS]

01:56:29 ◼   ► truth of that you face the reality of that it is uncomfortable and it and you [TS]

01:56:33 ◼   ► have to you know you have to wait as decision of do I keep using this for the [TS]

01:56:37 ◼   ► utility that provides or do I take a principled stand and and and accept the [TS]

01:56:43 ◼   ► cost of that so Google Analytics gives you information like how many people are [TS]

01:56:48 ◼   ► in what country and even like within the USA what state like how many you know [TS]

01:56:51 ◼   ► and and unsurprisingly by side is largely us' lot of people in the UK lot [TS]

01:56:57 ◼   ► of people in Germany Germany's always been the third country but you're [TS]

01:57:00 ◼   ► already down at a very low percentage and everybody else is spread around the [TS]

01:57:04 ◼   ► world and then within the U S 200 people in the northeast coast most of them in [TS]

01:57:09 ◼   ► california and most of them in California largely centered in the [TS]

01:57:13 ◼   ► northern part of California you know exactly who you think I don't need [TS]

01:57:18 ◼   ► Google Analytics to tell me that though and I find it weird and I just wonder [TS]

01:57:21 ◼   ► how the hell did they know that and I know there's ways to go back from IP [TS]

01:57:25 ◼   ► addresses and stuff like that but I just can't help but worry that part of it is [TS]

01:57:30 ◼   ► that if you're logged in to Google from Gmail and then you go over to a separate [TS]

01:57:34 ◼   ► a vineyard fireball that they're they're saying all we know Marco lives in New [TS]

01:57:38 ◼   ► York because we know everything about Marco and we've already got a cookie on [TS]

01:57:43 ◼   ► this system that's right there that does this right and it doesn't take much to [TS]

01:57:48 ◼   ► uniquely identify somebody between sites on the web like you can just play [TS]

01:57:53 ◼   ► analyzing some very basic stuff about the request and even if they block [TS]

01:57:57 ◼   ► almost every kind of add you know if if they come to your site a couple times [TS]

01:58:00 ◼   ► and if they know you couldn't you can just kind of match even if their IP [TS]

01:58:04 ◼   ► change you can just match like somebody's approximate zip code by using [TS]

01:58:07 ◼   ► IP lookup and match that with like the request headers at their browser send [TS]

01:58:14 ◼   ► which include at the browsers version but the exact version the OS exact [TS]

01:58:18 ◼   ► and stuff like that maybe something like if it has certain plugins than the [TS]

01:58:21 ◼   ► plug-in version looks like Pfizer Java like oh those are all in the in the in [TS]

01:58:25 ◼   ► the header of requests so if you just take a couple of those things [TS]

01:58:30 ◼   ► couple of data points you could you need to identify people surprisingly quickly [TS]

01:58:34 ◼   ► like with only two or three different points of that kind of set so you really [TS]

01:58:39 ◼   ► is is very much like if you give him an extra ticket foot like you have to be [TS]

01:58:44 ◼   ► very careful what you allow on your site if you want to actually be productive [TS]

01:58:49 ◼   ► people's privacy and you have to be aware as a visitor that you know you [TS]

01:58:53 ◼   ► might think you're that you have more privacy but in reality you are [TS]

01:58:57 ◼   ► inadvertently leaking data all over the place to everybody who's willing to [TS]

01:59:01 ◼   ► capture it and it's and you might not care most people don't think about it [TS]

01:59:06 ◼   ► and they they might not care if you told them but especially young people tend [TS]

01:59:10 ◼   ► not to care but certainly if your privacy minded you have to be incredibly [TS]

01:59:16 ◼   ► wary of what you like it because you know they can they can do so much for so [TS]

01:59:20 ◼   ► little if you go if you're logged in to Google Analytics I'd I was here and you [TS]

01:59:27 ◼   ► go to the bottom I don't maybe they have a separate one but when you go and [TS]

01:59:31 ◼   ► Privacy Policy it just takes you to Google's main privacy policy which is [TS]

01:59:35 ◼   ► for you know everything that Google does so it's just I don't even know if that's [TS]

01:59:44 ◼   ► what they mean you know like what I want to know is a publisher is what are my [TS]

01:59:49 ◼   ► readers being exposed to hear what's being tracked about them in it it [TS]

01:59:53 ◼   ► doesn't seem like there's any good way to get that answer or if there is I I'll [TS]

01:59:57 ◼   ► be damned if I can find it and to me that's just so I don't know why I really [TS]

02:00:02 ◼   ► gotta get rid of it I'm sure there's other ways I can do it and there's just [TS]

02:00:07 ◼   ► the system I'm thinking about installing is called pipi work by Wikipedia i Wik [TS]

02:00:12 ◼   ► yes that's a pretty common yeah I'm not quite sure what information is in but [TS]

02:00:16 ◼   ► that just a quick whatever it's called [TS]

02:00:20 ◼   ► is that its like men and that it's locally stored and so I would be running [TS]

02:00:24 ◼   ► it my own copy of it on my server storing my copy of the stats in my SQL [TS]

02:00:30 ◼   ► database and it's there are no cookies that are shared across other sites or [TS]

02:00:35 ◼   ► anything like that would track you all it is is knowledge of what people coming [TS]

02:00:39 ◼   ► to my site do so there'd be nothing privacy invasive about it at all other [TS]

02:00:44 ◼   ► than the fact that you are a person who is reading my site which you know [TS]

02:00:48 ◼   ► obviously do know some of the stats though that I don't know what that is [TS]

02:00:54 ◼   ► but some of the stuff like that is interesting and I will miss but I don't [TS]

02:00:57 ◼   ► miss it enough to keep using Google Analytics is like the number of people [TS]

02:01:00 ◼   ► using which browser and how many people use which operating system stuff like [TS]

02:01:04 ◼   ► that in some of that you can get to the user agent but a lot of it you you use [TS]

02:01:08 ◼   ► JavaScript to get things like like you know whether it has a screen or not but [TS]

02:01:11 ◼   ► I think so much that stuff is just becoming so irrelevant [TS]

02:01:15 ◼   ► like what what would you actually do with information you know most of it is [TS]

02:01:19 ◼   ► not that important [TS]

02:01:21 ◼   ► well any other factors that I don't like I truly do believe I gotta say it over [TS]

02:01:25 ◼   ► and over again if there's a theme of this episode it's everything you publish [TS]

02:01:28 ◼   ► on your site is content and counts and so I don't want JavaScript executing [TS]

02:01:33 ◼   ► that setting getting the bounds of the screen at a waste of CPU time you know [TS]

02:01:37 ◼   ► and you know i i get all Syracuse here but I'm sure it doesn't take very long [TS]

02:01:41 ◼   ► for a little bit of javascript is just figure out what the current screen size [TS]

02:01:46 ◼   ► is and send it back but every little thing you do that test like that adds up [TS]

02:01:51 ◼   ► to something and all of a sudden you've got you know five seconds of load time [TS]

02:01:57 ◼   ► for tractors and analytics you know each little step of it is you know a tenth of [TS]

02:02:03 ◼   ► a second exactly so anyway might as well take a break right here and talk about [TS]

02:02:15 ◼   ► our next sponsor it is as a new sponsor first time sponsor the show they're [TS]

02:02:20 ◼   ► called just works [TS]

02:02:21 ◼   ► jus T W O R K S [TS]

02:02:25 ◼   ► running payroll filing W two's negotiating health care prices already [TS]

02:02:32 ◼   ► asleep the sounds terrible these are all the things that if you're a small [TS]

02:02:35 ◼   ► business owner that you could be doing instead of listening to the talk show [TS]

02:02:41 ◼   ► sounds like a lot of fun right [TS]

02:02:44 ◼   ► well you couldn't just let just works [TS]

02:02:47 ◼   ► take care of that stuff for you just works helps businesses take care of all [TS]

02:02:53 ◼   ► that type of basic crap benefits payroll age are now that is crap that it doesn't [TS]

02:02:58 ◼   ► matter I think most of your employees think payroll this very important but [TS]

02:03:02 ◼   ► the bookkeeping aspects of it actually doing the work of making Iran and making [TS]

02:03:06 ◼   ► all the books out up and making sure everybody gets paid with this was a pain [TS]

02:03:09 ◼   ► busy work right you're not in a bad you're not in the business of payroll [TS]

02:03:14 ◼   ► you're in the business of whatever your businesses so check them out their [TS]

02:03:17 ◼   ► website is just works [TS]

02:03:19 ◼   ► dot com they help businesses take care of the stuff they they do it all for you [TS]

02:03:25 ◼   ► running a successful business is hard enough doing the actual business of [TS]

02:03:29 ◼   ► whatever your businesses whatever it is making apps making websites selling [TS]

02:03:34 ◼   ► coffee whatever it could be but all those little details of a charge Tehran [TS]

02:03:40 ◼   ► stuff like that can make it feel overwhelming probably the sort of thing [TS]

02:03:44 ◼   ► that keeps a lot of people from even starting a small business in the first [TS]

02:03:46 ◼   ► place because you just think will help make you know I can't afford to hire [TS]

02:03:50 ◼   ► somebody did it just works it's just easy and intuitive software very very [TS]

02:03:55 ◼   ► affordable great prices it's not like you're hiring somebody to do this for [TS]

02:03:59 ◼   ► you you're paying a little internet service to do it and take care of it so [TS]

02:04:05 ◼   ► if you run a business and you have payroll benefits compliant with a jar [TS]

02:04:11 ◼   ► stuff like that [TS]

02:04:12 ◼   ► go check them out at just works dot com take it all off your shoulders relax [TS]

02:04:18 ◼   ► listen to our podcast and you can use this code very easy there's a nice coat [TS]

02:04:23 ◼   ► TTS the talk-show three-letter code when you sign up you'll save 10% off your [TS]

02:04:29 ◼   ► first year of service just works dot com [TS]

02:04:32 ◼   ► so if you run a business go check them out you're just wasting your time if you [TS]

02:04:36 ◼   ► don't answer for the show but there's a lot of people who run companies have to [TS]

02:04:43 ◼   ► do stuff like that for a little while and I use one of the other big services [TS]

02:04:48 ◼   ► to do it and they have to file the state workers comp stuff and I had to I was [TS]

02:04:54 ◼   ► threatened by New York State to have to pay $15,000 a day until it was resolved [TS]

02:04:59 ◼   ► and I want to go sit down and only pay a few thousand bucks but then you wanna [TS]

02:05:05 ◼   ► company that does that right and I can tell you the big guys don't always so I [TS]

02:05:09 ◼   ► would definitely give just one shot really good I would if I say anything I [TS]

02:05:15 ◼   ► it's always worth reevaluating anytime anything that is a pain in your ass you [TS]

02:05:20 ◼   ► should look and see if there's a way that you can pay someone to do it for [TS]

02:05:24 ◼   ► you [TS]

02:05:25 ◼   ► yeah that's a really good rule in general and it's it is it the vast part [TS]

02:05:32 ◼   ► of the Internet era of modern society is that an entirely new realm of things can [TS]

02:05:40 ◼   ► be automated that just wasn't feasible before right like you know you know it's [TS]

02:05:48 ◼   ► just silly example but like those buttons that Amazon gives out now that I [TS]

02:05:53 ◼   ► go around a detergent you can just hit a button in and have detergents at your [TS]

02:05:57 ◼   ► house but there's no way that can happen before the internet there's no way [TS]

02:06:02 ◼   ► before the internet that you could just as easily set up a thing that would do [TS]