The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► here's what i got for us to talk about WWDC the life the live talk show at WWDC [TS]

00:00:06 ◼   ► mac OS r-iowa what's called micro s Mac os10 . 12 and lost track is 10 watch us [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► three taking the headphone jack off the iphone covering your laptop cameras with [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► tape podcast adds the future podcasting and mid-roll buying stitcher and then we [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► can we can talk about cars and talk about the shitty shifter design that [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► that led 20 yeah guy from Star Trek's that so so show ya [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► so let's get started w GC we have to talk about the actual announcements but [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► not everyone's heard about those already [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► I i want to talk about your show alright because you know you I I have something [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► to say about it and you probably won't be saying all this so i will say it [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► because you want [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► so number one is you know first of all I greatly enjoyed it [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► you began the show by posing the question of like you know you had Phil [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► on last year how do you top that you know there's only so far you can go up [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► the chain to top having fill on the show and you ended up having Phil and Craig [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► on the show this year and I i put forth now this theory that that is the top [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► that is the best you can do for that show in that week I agree with that i [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► think that's actually probably true because and this is I know that it I [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► think I successfully kept it secret [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► I number one I don't know what the people were whispering out in the [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► audience but i was guessing Tim but I had no idea the activity was the by far [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► the most common guess that like and people were and people are bugging me [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► like the date not bugging me i shouldn't say that everybody came up and said hi [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► to meet WBC i always enjoy it and when him sometimes I see people on Twitter [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► who say hey I saw you somewhere and I thought I won't bother you now just come [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► say hi like to say hi to people it's great it's one of my favorite parts of [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► WC le and it was really weird for me in the early years because it it does not [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► come naturally to me but I've learned making during that period i've learned [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► over the years how to how to to make those things go pretty well pretty much [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► what i did was the one year the South by Southwest I was hanging out with the [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► year marilyn is [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► together south by and I just know that I met you that when people would come up [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► to us if whether they know you know if they knew Merlin Merlin is amazing he's [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► absolutely amazing when someone comes up and says hey you Merlin man you know [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► he's obviously never met them their fan he's so good at it and I just suddenly [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► went into like I'm just going to copy his moves and just do what he does and [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► it's got a lot better so anyway people come into did say blah blah but then [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► they say who's gonna be on your show and I would just say I started saying to [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► them you don't really want me to tell you right you mean you want to be [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► surprised again like you and you know I don't know what the listeners think but [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► like you know so you and I are friends [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► I didn't know either last year or this year like you don't even tell your [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► friends like you don't as far as I know the only people you tell her like Amy [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► and Paul who are working the event with you like you don't tell anybody I didn't [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► tell Paul Amy did and Caleb sexton new as of like three or four in the [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► afternoon of the day and I did tell Caleb that you know to prepare three [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► laughs Mike so we knew there would be two to guess but no i did not tell [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► anybody because that's how you keep a secret [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► how do you keep a secret it's easy don't tell anybody I swear to god it is that [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► it it it it sounds stupid but it's most people don't do that Amy tells me a [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► great size great story i'm going to picture this in some way at but when she [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► was in law school she had a criminal defense course that was taught by a [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► former FBI agent and he told them he said you want to know how to get away [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► with murder [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► it's actually very easy don't leave any evidence [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► don't don't leave any evidence behind [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► don't tell anyone what you did and don't ever do it again and you'll never don't [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► feel you'll get away with it and useful information for law students most [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► murderers do not get away with it because most murders either leave [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► something behind or they most commonly they tell somebody very very easy i [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► didn't murder anybody but I did not tell anybody was going to be on the show and [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► I agree with your assessment that that the duo of Phil and Craig is I think [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► unbeatable [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► tim was obvious Tim Cook would be a bigger [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► that Jony ive would be a big get but i don't think that the combination of my [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► interviewing skills combined with their personalities I don't think would be as [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► enjoyable especially with in this setting to you know you like you you [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► were there and you want to talk about what was just said in the keynote like [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► we've seen interviews of Tim Tim doesn't really straight from the talking points [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► he's very well prepared very well controlled and he says what he wants to [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► say and nothing more [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► and what you really want everybody see is endless and in the talk show goes [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► like that the live talk show is still your show it's still the talk show and [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► you know that the mood of it takes on what you set there so it really it's [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► kind of like you know like you like you say that this is the directors [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► commentary for daring fireball you know you know when you have these apple execs [TS]

00:05:12 ◼   ► on your on your show which I love that like now two years and it just has [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► become my god this is what you doing out like its last year was like holy crap [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► this year it's like oh yeah again ok but what you when you have them on the show [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► it kind of becomes the directors commentary for WTC because they it is [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► like mood-wise it's like the closest that any of us will ever get to like [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► sitting down and having a beer with apple executives and so we can insert [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► and and I think you know filling Craig not only have very good personalities [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► that mesh well with that but also like topic wise at WTC if there's any to [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► apple execs you can pick to ask questions to that are going to be [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► interesting and relevant to developers after having heard that keynote that day [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► it's going to be those two because you have Phil who now runs the entire app [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► store policy wise at least he runs a whole app store and then he he he's also [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► kind of like I don't know what his role is you know [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► unofficially but it seems like he is in many ways like a heavily involved or [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► possibly the head of a lot of product decisions [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► yeah I've always said and I mean get just maybe I should have asked [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► I've always had this on my list nobody say you do here well i have had that and [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► I've run out of time I've both years you know it's better that way but I have [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► more stuff to talk to them about then then I have time to to ask them and I [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► tend to favor [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► hey let's fill this up with questions from the keynote because i think it's a [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► it's more relevant to now then forever but I have ideas i go into it with a [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► couple ideas for things to talk about just in case the keynote doesn't really [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► have a lot of stuff around [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► I've always said and from my perspective on the outside the best way to [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► understand shoulders roll at Apple would be to take the word marketing out of his [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► name and that it title and that he's senior vice president of product because [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► the marketing is in and of itself it's part of the product it's not a separate [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► thing it's not like the products are developed and then shoulders group [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► figures out how to advertise them or what pictures to take to put on the box [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► it's it's all of a piece you know they like that's the type of marketing that [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► gives especially engineers who are analytical and they roll their eyes when [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► they think about marketing bad marketing is when you start with a bad product and [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► somebody has told you know here's here's a kind of crappy product or thing with a [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► bunch of problems figure out a way to sell it [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► well that's the market ourselves to do their job and that's you know but [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► whereas if you have a good product you can just let the product speak for [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► yourself and figure out how do we let the front products speak for itself and [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► i think that's ideally what you know had at their best that's how Apple's [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► marketing works and it seems to like he is intimately familiar with all of their [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► products [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► oh it clearly and and also and you know having Craig there to like it's amazing [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► because you know if you think of like you know what is an executive and you [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► think like what kind of person is what do they know what kind of involved they [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► have and to have the kind of incredibly deep knowledge that these two executives [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► have about what they apparently oversee with Hillary i went and what Craig does [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► officially over see you know that Craig was throwing out deep technical [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► implementation details and and I know from talking to people in the company [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► that that's genuine like Craig is really a genuine like hardcore engineer and [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► he's really really knows his stuff and he gets deeply involved in it and is it [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► but at the same time as a really good you look good leader I mean I i don't [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► think i've met anybody who has worked under Craig or anywhere near Craig and [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► has a single bad thing to say about the experience working with them i mean ii [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► like he seems incredibly good at his job and very well suited to that leadership [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► role but also like you like Phil having this incredibly deep knowledge of the [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► products in the decisions and [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► you have that there that like this is why I think this is this is better than [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► having Tim for your show because not only not only like I think you have [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► eww a better personality mesh with these guys but also I think you know Tim it [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► doesn't take that kind of deep knowledge of like little details of how these [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► things are engineered or product decisions like and because i think Tim [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► kind of knows he's not like a head of product the way steve was and so he has [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► delegated that to some of the other recipes and you know different [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► combinations and I honestly I think it's a little bit vague as to what the [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► combination is right now that might be a bit for problem but overall you know [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► it's you know tim is not really a product person and Phil very clearly is [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► and it honestly I mean from just my point of view i am very happy you had [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► those two people on and I i would say Phil and Craig are my favorite apple [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► executives and I think the ones that most closely align with my priorities it [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► seems [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► yeah I think that's fair to say so I don't know what I screwed for next year [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► yeah we'll just have one again or have nots that's that those your choices i [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► think Eddy Eddy Cue when he was on this show with craig was good and I think he [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► would be good but his personality wise a but his domain isn't a good fit [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► especially for the WWDC so if I had something where I did like quarterly [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► show or twice a year show and like maybe if i did a live show after the September [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► you know iphone event or something like that [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► Eddy Cue might be good then but I feel like WWDC in particular when the news is [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► supposed to end in late most years recently really is mostly about software [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► it's it's you know there's he get it would really make any sense just to have [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► him on because it's not his his domain [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► yeah although i would also say like a one of the greatest things we saw at the [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► live talk show this year is that we on the outside got to see in a very very [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► rare circumstance we got to see to apple s VP's interacting with each other and [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► if you think about like what other chances do we ever have to see that in [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► and before I understand like I again [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► some people into the company like even most people who work in the company [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► rarely see two mvps in the same room because usually you're presenting two at [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► most one of them felt like it to see to executive clearly work together for a [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► very long time and know each other really well and clearly respect each [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► other very much who are also good and other ways like it just it really [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► brought a lot of amazing humanity and just insight into just whose people [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► actually are and that's like this is I'm going to eat you're not going to get in [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► like a carefully scripted keynote or any kind of you know carefully planned event [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► and this is why i love the show so much because like you get to do this knee and [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► you get to like reveal this to the world and and you do it in a way that like [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► because it's a podcast I i love podcast because like you know if you write [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► something on a blog or a new site like that spreads all over the place really [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► quickly if there's anything about its controversial or inflammatory or [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► anything else believe me I know that better than a lot of people and so and [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► that can often be you know prohibitive to encouraging people to continue [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► writing with a podcast it seems like just because podcast doesn't just [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► because I really spread like wildfire the way text spreads like you can like [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► quote someone's post or reform a paraphrase someone's post inflammatory [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► headline and it just spreads like wildfire right podcast that just doesn't [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► happen like I thought last year when you had Phil on which you know let anybody [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► forget that was remarkable at the time I thought that was gonna be like literally [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► like world news I thought it was gonna be reported like on CNN that like this [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► happened and like everything that was said would have been scrutinized andrey [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► and reported on just just as much as like an apple press release would have [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► and instead there was like One macrumors article by like it was it was almost [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► nothing like almost nothing happened and then the same thing happened this year [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► we're again it's like now you have two apple executives now you should have CNN [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► and the New York Times reporting on it a double double coverage and like again [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► like you had one microparticle like basically nothing else [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► yeah i thought the same thing last year not necessarily that I was disappointed [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► I was just I curious and I think you know one measure of it would be like [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► tech meme and it's like I write blog posts that get more attention on [TS]

00:13:17 ◼   ► technique yeah then this one the good thing is that like it you know i like my [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► family with my experience like you know I've been writing a lot less in part [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► because of this problem of just like you know like any slip-up and it spreads [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► like wildfire right and podcasting that just doesn't happen but also liked [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► because of that affect it the podcasting kind of end because the conversational [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► nature of it just being more casual podcasting is kind of like a safe space [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► and you like you can say you can you can go on a podcast you can talk off script [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► and you know and answer questions that were that you didn't get an advantage of [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► that one plan or whatever you can you can accept that that gig because it [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► really isn't dangerous people give you the benefit of the doubt it doesn't [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► really spread like wildfire if you like screw something up my name some kind of [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► minor way it's a conversational context doesn't seem as official or as as like [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► you know coated and stone and I feel like you know that's again something [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► that Apple never gets in any kind of public way so the its end for the [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► listeners or the attendees of the live show it's it's almost like being let [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► into like an exclusive club like it you know it's like it's a club of obscurity [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► makes it look like you know we get to be here and listen to this [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► you know Two and get to know these people and get these great insight into [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► things but like it's not a big problem for them and they don't get in trouble [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► for things they say it's kind of amazing i was thinking about what you said [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► before about how we don't get to see the apples executives interact with each [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► other in a personal way right and one evidence of proof of that and I again I [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► often bring up Scott Forstall and I I've met him and I liked him [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► you know like backstage after a keynote and I think he did fantastic work for [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► the company and so you know I bring them up not to dump on them because i really [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► think the guy did a great job but if famously I mean it was [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► did you know did not get along well with the rest of the leadership team I mean [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► that the press release announcing his i forget what they called it but you know [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► that he was no longer he would quit fired yeah well I that well as his [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► promotion to what was it to a tim cook's assistant or whatever special whatever [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► it was a special adviser on that it's that you know the title of the press [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► release was like you know something about it and enabling collaboration or [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► something like that you know it was very clear and my sense since that butt [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► onstage you'd never know it like Schiller to forestall you know handing [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► off in the keynote you know like and here to tell you all about it is a [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► senior vice president scott forstall is exactly the same as his interaction with [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► like federighi now because they're pros their total pros they're polished and [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► you'd never have from that you know outside you'd never have any idea [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► whether there's a difference whereas on stage with those two you could tell that [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► they like each other you know [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► yeah totally rad each other especially Phil rising federighi oh yeah um yeah I [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► thought it went pretty well you know and you know me I'm not going to sit here [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► and say how good my show was but yeah I will felt it was really good so we did [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► we did I love uncomfortable this makes doesn't it [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► let's talk about the problems with the show we had our audio problems we had [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► this feedback at the beginning and anybody who's watching the video watch [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► the video recorded one on Vimeo or listen to the podcast you won't hear it [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► i don't know i don't think Caleb had to clean that up i don't think he had to [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► remove it i think that the audio it take the mics didn't pick it up but what [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► happened and it wasn't Caleb's fault it was during this weekend they definitely [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► did a sound check [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► but Caleb let the house sound guy at mezzanine who is knew it wasn't the same [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► guy as last year talk him out of a I don't know what I don't even know what I [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► didn't want to know what this what the details were but if the Caleb let the [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► guy talked him out of something against Caleb's better judgment and then the fix [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► five or ten minutes into the show is exactly what Caleb wanted to do at the [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► outset I did it violates the number one rule of the sound equipment which is get [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► it working and then don't touch anything [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► yeah i'm not sure where that went wrong did get straightened out and it wasn't [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► too bad it was just like but it was it was just if anybody watch the video and [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► I [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► I look a little bit like I'm looking around it was because of it that the [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► feedback but you won't hear it when you watch on on the show the other thing I [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► think that I wonder how it affects the immediate holy shit you know these two [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► guys are on groomers show is that the show doesn't come out right away this [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► year it didn't come until Friday so I feel like on my list for what can I fix [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► for next year's figure out who do i have to pay what I have to do to get the [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► video out hopefully like 24 hours [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► well on the other hand though why like if the show this doesn't wake national [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► news the main and they don't get in trouble for anything they say then that [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► makes it easier to get them back [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► the main reason to turn to to get the turnaround quicker is just to make [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► people who want to watch it happier i don't think it would have I don't think [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► it would really make a big difference in terms of publicity the main reason is [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► that I know just from my tweets and the emails that people were like chomping at [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► the bit to get it and I would be too if there were two of me and one one who [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► does the show and other one who just listens to the show and really likes it [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► i would have been too if I couldn't get to the live show you what you should do [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► is you should hire the the Apple WC video team because they get that Valley [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► thanks morning I know that it's amazing there Dave really up that it's really [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► incredible how quickly they get out [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► yeah the livestream broke this year last year and stayed up at this year broke I [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► i would suggest maybe doing an audio-only live stream because it's Who [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► I mean unless you go to let something like youtube live we could also be a [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► probably an easier way to do it but audio is a lot easier to to scale up [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► then we did that we did that two years ago when you and your ATP palace for the [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► gifts and that's how I know that because I we're streaming off of my ipad in the [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► back on verizon it was fucking absolutely true either thing i love [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► about that I don't know if it helped you like because then you wouldn't be [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► nervous [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► it gave you something to do but it or if it just made you even more nervous [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► because instead of thinking about the show you were fiddling with it but that [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► the backstory on that was that literally like right up until we open the doors to [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► let people in you were back there like and we have weren't planning it you're [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► just like but why don't we like [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► but I can do it and you just like took out your iPad and like we're plugging it [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► into the board like no it was worse than that you said oh by the way we don't [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► have a way to record this so I was providing the only recording of it and [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► also the lifestream and that was a poorly plant poorly planned shell that's [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► funny funny that we've gone from there to here in two years its did i do keep [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► pretty good notes about what to improve for the next year I i'd say i'd say you [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► you now have a pretty good you have the kinks worked out and I would say just [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► like repeat this and maybe change the way you stream the video and that's [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► about it [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► no see my people have a good time [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► yeah yeah it was good good good event and ya again I mean you won't say it but [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► i will it was great and you definitely you know keep doing it if you can [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► yeah i'll see what i can do hopefully I thought it went well how about I take a [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► break right here and i thank our first sponsor and our first sponsor this week [TS]

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00:21:36 ◼   ► hundred bucks in just to see how it works signup look at the interface do [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► you know and then once they get to like it and say okay this is good I trust [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► this then put in the quote-unquote real money which could be anything they [TS]

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00:22:08 ◼   ► send your code to your brother-in-law and a couple other people you can get [TS]

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00:22:28 ◼   ► that's it's a long-term investment thing this is like the total opposite of like [TS]

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00:22:36 ◼   ► have so many options so many different types of accounts i cannot possibly go [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► over them and in the length of a podcast that just go to their website and check [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► them out a really smart way to invest your money for the long run wealthfront [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► and the URL is wealthfront dot-com / the talk show anything else on a live show [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► that covers it anyway I had a good time I have not watched it I can't bring [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► myself to watch it yet i watch last year's at some point but I didn't want [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► to see it so maybe I should've watched it before we started talking about it [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► here but I listen to it again [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► Mac OS here's my thing about mac OS I can't believe that they changed the name [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► to mac OS but kept the 10-point 12 version numbering where what is that 10 [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► now why it's just 10 forever [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► well you know I think it's a lot like like you like the dumb windows kernel [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► version thing where like you know windows 2000 was like 85 . oh I think [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► that XP was 5.1 and it's 85 for a while it's like like that just the numbers [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► doesn't mean anything relative to the marketing name and and the marketing [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► sequence so i think that you know it just doesn't really matter i'm kind of [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► surprised though that they kept the California names and I'm kind of [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► surprised and just call this mac OS 12like that's it seems like even though [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► people would have made fun of the most people livin like I think that would [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► have made a lot more sense to just say you know [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► alright this is no mac OS 12 in the next year mac OS 13 or whatever but i guess [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► those numbers don't scale very well nobody wants like mac OS 17 I don't know [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► it is with it seem weird that they give I think they could have done both though [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► they could call it Mac OS 12 Sierra [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► yeah maybe that's a lot of I don't know why did not go by this mac OS get a code [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► name in iOS doesn't I don't get that one you know maybe because of the of like [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► the high numbering problem no one seems like the teens it kind of is like you [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► know less cool sounding maybe they're going to transition iOS onto a code name [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► system and maybe they would unify the code in zno this year we have ios Sierra [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► and mac OS Sierra I don't know and there's a lot of things they could do [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► there but i do think like the numbers are really nice and clean and simple now [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► because they're relatively low but once you get into like you know the teams of [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► it it's it's less cool than anything i watch us three know what I love it it's [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► all we talk about mac OS than whatever you used to get i actually have I [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► actually have it on a macbook pro downstairs and it's like it's exactly [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► the sort of thing I would like I like to see Apple do which is it doesn't feel [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► you know you could easily convince me that it wasn't even a new version of Mac [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► os10 and it's like oh yeah look that looks a little different they've changed [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► a little bit here and there but it is such a minor refinement in terms of [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► everything i'm used to and then they just added you know some nice new [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► features [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► yeah and I'm happy with that too I mean you're from a developer's point of view [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► I would love to see like some modernisation of app kit and possibly [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► some kind of like cross-platform application UI kit kind of hybrid onion [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► so I basically would have learned advocate but that I you know I [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► understand also why that's kind of a big job and probably not worth doing [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► necessarily or maybe waiting until like it like it presumably in the future [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► there's gonna be some kind of rewrite or or refactoring of a lot of the [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► frameworks to better optimize for swift and if you go beyond just renaming like [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► right now to basically renamed them when using from Swift and that's about it but [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► like there's there there's more that you could do there to make to really [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► optimize it for swift so maybe down the road they're planning on like a a bigger [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► change the frameworks and maybe they unify the men because you as you talk [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► about often Apple's a very patient company and when it comes like long-term [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► technical decisions like this they're willing to wait [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► 5-10 years to do what you need to do if they think it'll be better later to do [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► with that so I think it would be interesting to see if they ever do [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► tackle the problem or figures kind of consider you know after the right tool [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► for this job and you get the right tool for that job books there's there's some [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► basis for that not a hundred percent but there's some basis for that and maybe [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► just kind of consider the mac to be the kind of like a completed platform like [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► we don't need to do much on this anymore I don't know [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► yeah sort of like the way I treat markdown yeah right i mean i had no joke [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► i mean it's it's seriously like you know that it is what it is you know move on [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► with the other stuff maybe i don't know i think you're right that if they do it [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► they would it would probably coincide with a swift ification of frameworks I [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► or you know if all these rumors i keep hearing about their like being like a [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► single unified OS coming down the road with new everything you know then you [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► know for the car and God knows what else you know then if if that is actually [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► true and coming in the next five years then that would be the time to do it you [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► know I don't know I just that I don't give that rumor a lot of weight honestly [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► because it's it seems really grand and I don't know it just seems to me like when [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► I study it and think about it and I'm trying to think about what to write [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► about the the mac OS beta i keep thinking about something guy English [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► friend of the show guy English said to me last week without it i was asking [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► just friends and say who i just said hey let's just say if I got to interview [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► somebody interesting what are some questions you guys have any questions [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► that you wish I would ask that guy had pointed out that when when Steve Jobs [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► introduced the mac OS 10 10 . l back in $MONTH 2001 he framed as saying this is [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► the operating system for the next 15 years I was 15 years ago [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► yep on and I i think it's almost you know he was trying to say this is the [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► operating system for the you know the long-term for Apple this is something [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► that Apple can really so what Apple's but they're 40 years old now so there [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► were 25 year old company then this is the you know it it was as far away from [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► the original mac as as we are today I think if anything in hindsight jobs [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► clearly under sold the longevity of the platform because that's the thing i look [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► at when I look at mac OS 10.2 12 is that this doesn't feel like an operating [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► system on its last legs this feels like an operating system that is still in its [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► prime and doing it's exactly what it wants to be and really doesn't need [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► anything major [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► I mean it could end it someday something like a you know executor example about [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► it doing a lot of you I kid ification to appt kid or bringing uikit 22 Mac os10 [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► in some way to sit there alongside app kit or who knows that you know major [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► changes some day but at the moment it's really just fine and and does its job [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► very well and the way I put a couple years ago and it's funny too because [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► I've I said something about like the next five years but it was like five [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► years ago so I undersold it you know as much five years ago as jobs did 15 was [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► that that the heaviness of the mac conceptually that it's so so quick you [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► know you can have so many windows open and you can go so deep and you have all [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► these options like services and control you know right clicking and getting [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► these contextual menus and even that just the existence of the menu bar that [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► heaviness is what lets is remain so lightweight that you couldn't have it [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► like the ipad and make it as simple as it is without having a platform to go [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► with it that is as complicated as the mac i mean the downside of that kind of [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► that logic though I think it's mostly sound but the downside of that is like [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► that kind of assumes that they will be both maintained over time and we'll both [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► succeed over time and i'm not sure the safe assumption to make [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► hmm i wonder if it doesn't also conversely tie into the the the fact [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► that there's some productivity tasks that just still aren't that great to do [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► on an iPad you know that it's it works both ways that it's like [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► it they just haven't been haven't felt forced to enable the ipad to be good at [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► X because I'd you can just use your macbook for that but also like you know [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► as they have added more productivity features to iOS and especially the ipad [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► your kind of seeing them basically try to address the same problems like [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► basically try to make it closer to a mac kind of environment so now you have [TS]

00:30:58 ◼   ► things like a basic form of windowing and multiple windows on screen you know [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► you have these document pickers are simplified view of a file system that [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► are still files you know like it when i get there they're having to solve the [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► same problems and oftentimes the solution they come up with are actually [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► not substantially better than the solutions that we that like the pc and [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► macro and figure out years ago [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► sometimes they are but it seems like they're both kinda aiming for the same [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► thing where they try to make mac OS easier to use and more iOS like in in [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► ways at the same time to try to make iOS more productive and and more suited for [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► pro use and by doing that they're kind of making iOS a little more mac like in [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► these certain areas and I'm not sure either effort is a huge success [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► necessarily I i think the the effort to to profile is is probably more [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► successful than the effort to iOS fi the mac i think that if you think about it i [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► can't think of anything this year that really was i OS notification of the Mack [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► I feel like maybe they're done with that like they've they've done that enough of [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► it that they wanted to and now they're just letting the MACD the mac maybe I'm [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► overlooking and made that something but I can't think of anything not you might [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► be right i mean it's it maybe it does seem like they've they've kind of [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► figured out that like the Mac doesn't need to be iOS that can stand on its own [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► like there may be different they've gained more confidence in it you know it [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► as being its own thing [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► mmm yeah I can't think of anything I mean there are features that are [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► obviously in parallel with iOS you know like that the fancy new messages [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► animations and stuff like that but that's not really iOS to find the mac [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► that's just getting the same stuff at the same time [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► yeah but you know ultimately in the long haul i I think having iOS be this [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► juggernaut that is most of the market for apple will it will hurt the back it [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► will cost the mac because you have situations like like messages as for [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► example this where if you you know you can now have you know until until I os10 [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► I message work basically the same way on all three platforms ipad iphone Mac it [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► works the same we have the same capabilities roughly with the new [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► version of messages now you're going to have this this large amount of [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► functionality especially if the app thing takes off which other messages [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► services have had apps that have taken off so they probably will and apples [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► pretty good at apps and making apps take off as long as you aren't talking about [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► the TV so by having by having this big app environment that's going to take off [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► on iOS and having almost none of it available on the mac and having no easy [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► technical bridge there because the mac is not uikit and is not iOS and is not [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► running all the same frame works and doesn't have the same kind of extension [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► system and binary supported everything else I i suspect that the mac is going [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► to have some trouble in the next few years you know if this takes off because [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► it's going to feel even more like a second-class citizen than it does now I [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► don't know maybe I mean that does tie in this is a good that's a good segue I [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► think because it does tie into I would I can't believe I almost forgot to bring [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► this up is have one major regret from the live show there was one question [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► from my list around like I said they're a bunch that I didn't get to that we're [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► fine [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► they were just sort of like a if we have time i'll get to these if not but there [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► was one on that I had above the line of definitely want to ask that I didn't get [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► to and it was on the tip of my tongue at one point but it didn't seem like the [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► right moment and then after that it was like out of my mind and I have forgotten [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► and the question what would have been fulfilled and it would have been more or [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► less along the lines of the mac pro hasn't been updated in over 900 days i [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► think as a showtime it was 908 days and the mac mini hasn't been updated in over [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► 600 days and [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► why do you hate pro pro customers and but did it you know [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► insert audience laughter there but the true thing is i know for a fact talking [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► to develop her friends and and just reading email from from DF the daring [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► fireball audience which has a in addition to developers [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► I definitely have a lot of readers and listeners who are professionals and [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► video and photography and other things where you they want a new mac pro and [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► they the concern is palpable that they worry that Apple's phenomenal success [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► selling consumer products has left them a disinterested in professional products [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► and I think that concern is warranted based on a lot of time over the last few [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► years like a lot of I mean first of all like losing things like aperture and [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► then seeing like I even the Final Cut transition to final cut [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► now is that 1x or 10 i honestly don't know iphonedo i'm going to 10-under [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► guessed it that I know it you know a lot of project still sore about that man [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► died at from understand it's mostly been kinda you know people now are okay with [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► it but like you know the software side apple has definitely backed away from [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► the pro market in into a large degree the hardware side I think it's been even [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► more dramatic and granted a lot of pros get away just fine with imax a lot of [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► pros use the macbook pro and they're mostly fine with that too although is [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► pretty pretty old i think one of the problems we have now and which ties into [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► the to the Thunderbolt Display steakhouse but one of the problems we [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► have now is that for it seems like Apple has whoever is responsible for deciding [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► these like you know these Hardware generations and when to ship things and [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► and what makes the cut and what gets pushed to the next release it seems like [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► they're there sensibility for do we ship now with new stuff we've accumulated so [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► far or do we wait and do a bigger update in X time with this that with the stuff [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► that's imminent that were there soon will if we wait now we'll do a bigger [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► update in six months that has x y&z [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► and it seems like they're there sensibility for that is just a little [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► bit off in recent years that was like there are new components they could have [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► used for the mac pro and and you know the mac pro uses Xeon CPUs until server [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► line Zeon's don't get released that often they get released i think roughly [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► every 18 months there's like a new generation is beyond that would be [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► suitable to use the mac pro gpus get released even more often that [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► yeah and and for Apple to say that this is a like you know they redesigned the [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► entire machine to be in entirely like GPU focus that you can't even buy this [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► one only one GPU anymore [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► you can only get it with two GPUs and they're going to be server ish or [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► workstation each grade GPUs are some asterisk on that but basically they're [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► going to workstation GPUs and it and you know this is the future of what how we [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► see pro computing is these heavy GPU operating machines [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► well the GPU world moves really quickly way faster than the cpu were elected and [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► it's still moving at that speed you can't say your vision for pro computing [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► is tons of GPU power and then not update the GPUs that you're selling for three [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► years [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► yeah like it seems like they set up this course of we're going to know this is [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► our vision of the future of computing and they just didn't follow through at [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► all and it to the point now where you know a year in it was kind of like a [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► diversity computer faster two years in it was like as everything ok three years [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► in people are looking for the exits and looking to switch to windows for their [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► proceeds and that's a problem [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► it definitely is because it and i think that in an ideal world [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► well maybe not ideal because ideal would be updated very you know we see lots of [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► update i would say in a realistically ideal world the mac pro could still be [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► on a greater than one year cycle i think you know it could like 18 months though [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► is about the upper limit right some kind of update [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► unfortunately that's about as often as until makes news eons so all that all [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► apple has to do is stop skipping generations because right now the like [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► in in recent times the mac pro for maybe the last I don't know six seven years [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► they've they've released roughly every other xeon generation like they just [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► kind of [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► skip every other one and i don't know i'm sure there maybe there's good [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► reasons why but i'm not aware of what those are and it appears from the [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► outside like they just don't feel like it and that's not a good reason if [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► that's the reason and again like it even if for some reason you have to keep the [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► same cpus if this computer is really gonna be a GPU focus machine released [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► new GPU is for it and by the way this is a pro machine make those gpus [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► upgradeable because that's what pros to do a lot of GPUs need they need [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► upgradeable powerful recent gpus right and if that's not the focus of the [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► machine then make you know make it cheaper by making a single GPU option [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► and give more cpu options may be redesigned so it can support to two [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► sockets again then you can have you can have them like you know double the [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► amount of very high speed kors double the number of ram slots like it's like [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► that they designed this machine to accomplish a goal that they are [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► seemingly unable or unwilling to actually fulfill its it's just funny [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► because it's a striking design and obviously it wasn't designed as a second [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► thought you know it was designed as let's make let's redefine what it means [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► to make a kick-ass professional high-performance desktop but then it's [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► like it was again it's almost like they figured what we're done right came over [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► the new mac pro and now we're done let's work on the iphone success [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► yeah and it's just it's sad because it does seem like from the outside having [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► you know having no answers from apple on this it does seem like they just don't [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► care and and the whole Mac lineup kinda looks like that right now or at least [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► the vast majority of it and it's you know I know they do care like I know [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► that's not actually the case but it sure looks bad [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► it does and it definitely doesn't and maybe it's not even entirely rational i [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► think people could professionals concerns about Apple's long-term [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► interest in this [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► it's just that it if your personal livelihood is based on what you do at [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► your computer and that's probably true it's certainly true for me and you and [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► it's true for a lot of people listen I think to this show it's it's reasonable [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► to be concerned that the only company that makes the tools that you use my [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► be interested in serving you anymore right like that's like you know one [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► thing Pro users hate with very good reason is being forced to change the [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► what they used to do the job in the workflow their hardware the software [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► whatever they hated it because it sucks because like when you're using him to [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► get your work done you don't want to have to spend a bunch of time and money [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► to change systems to relearn something else to update everything and and fixed [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► everything breaks and deal with missing functionality for a while I have to buy [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► new hardware by new software like it it's very disruptive to pros to have [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► their platform their workflow messed with or be forced to change it so when [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► you're buying something for pro use you want to be buying into a system that's [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► going to be stable long-term you don't want to have to be learning a nap now [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► that you're going to be discontinued next year and oh by the way you have to [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► also switch to windows if you want to be competitive with your video encoding [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► break or whatever like nobody wants that and it you know if it kind of feels like [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► this is gonna be like a downward spiral where like Apple will keep really [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► neglecting the pro hardware which will then make people trust it less and they [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► won't sell as many and then Apple can justify discontinuing those are [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► neglecting frozen and they say well we don't sell very many of these so why [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► should pay attention to these yeah it's it's you know I I feel like it doesn't [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► take a genius to analyze the situation where the mac is the pro platform and [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► iOS is the consumer platform and especially with the iphone that's where [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► the you know there's there's what I don't know 20-fold 30-fold more of them [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► sold per quarter all around the world it's the expansion into all these other [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► countries like India and especially China so of course of course it it's [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► there [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► you know most important priority of course they're never going to be late on [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► an iphone or if they are into a catastrophe not not as a result of that [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► we can wait [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► like imagine if I funding get updated for 900 days you can't rightly I mean [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► literally I know people make these jokes that you know the stocks down ten [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► percent Tim Cook should be fired or shouldn't even say they make jokes and [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► other jackasses elysee they're serious [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► but it with no hyperbole if Apple when you got even close to that if Apple went [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► you know two years without an iphone update i think would be reasonable for [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► the the board did maybe call tim cook and say it's time you know you're out [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► yeah that would be that would be cause for serious concern right it's that you [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► can't even really it's unfathomable yeah you know so 900 days for the mac pro's [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► you know it's not gonna get anybody fired but it certainly looks Ben and I [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► can even see it with the mac mini where the mac minis never been updated quickly [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► and maybe that's not really a pro machine although i do know that there [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► are some people who use it and pro sort of ways by like you know setting up like [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► build machines and stuff like that or like like servers for offices [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► organizations in some cases right and I would you know my friend Brian Stuckey [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► at a formerly of mac mini colo yeah at mack stadium is the new company that he [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► had bought them right yeah yeah well they like merged and even so I know he [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► sent me like a please ask if you get any under know you've got on the talk show [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► but if you get anybody good can you please ask him about my poor Mac Mini so [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► there is a pro angle on on the mac mini yeah but also it's worth pointing out to [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► like the current generation mac mini and the current generation mac pro both do a [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► lot less than their previous hardware designs [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► yeah so like they've taken these products and not only have they made [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► them you know indicated that approach actually more expensive now because I [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► have to pay for two gpus so now it's more expensive and it has less [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► flexibility and less upgradability and fewer and fewer configuration options [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► unless less if you can put into it less maximum capacity i know a lot of areas [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► and the mac mini to the mac mini used to have quad-core option and it was a [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► really great wave to get a decent amount of power and a little you know headless [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► server and occasionally they go up for sale on the apple refurb store and there [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► they just disappear in like a minute like they're there is still incredible [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► demand for I believe it was a 2012 era cpu in these roughly twenty twelve mac [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► minis because they happen to be quad-core and that's a lot more [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► processing power in total in parallel [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► then the current models dual-core highest configuration [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► yeah and look at what people want to do is these things that are paralyzed [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► double right especially in a server so like or you know even if using it at [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► home like for like a media thing for your TV or if using as a built over all [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► those things using the course of almost everything that like a pro gonna do with [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► it is parallel and and you know even for home users like at least make the option [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► like so Apple has these machines now where they're actually making them worse [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► and in some cases worse and more expensive overtime and updating them [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► almost never and then so of course sales going to go down which again is gonna [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► it's gonna make that downward spiral start with that then they won't be able [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► to justify updating them and it's gonna get worse and I feel like you know and [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► we're gonna get through this i think if we ever get to the headphone jack and I [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► you probably shouldn't let it get the text i have a lot to say about that but [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► we're doubling it it seems like Apple is somewhere and apple there's like this [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► obsession with getting rid of things getting rid of options getting rid of [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► ports getting rid of hardware getting rid of of something you know just [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► getting rid of things and I can see how you get that way I've gotten that way [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► before my software development [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► we're like it feels really good to get rid of stuff and oftentimes there are [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► benefits but not always [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► it isn't always worth it and sometimes the costs outweigh the benefits and it [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► seems like you know similar to how I question the the the decision-making [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► that has led to like oh well just wait until thing in the near future to update [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► this computer [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► I also question the judgment recently of we can just take this out or we can just [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► make this worse or we can just make this more expensive or whatever and it'll be [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► worth it in the end because we're moving forward it's the future the vision of [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► the future is things can do less and cost more like no that's but that's that [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► that's actually what we're seeing in some of these products and it that does [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► concern me [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► I i think so too would have an interesting task so I regret not asking [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► that question i don't have good on that one on stage with it but probably not i [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► would but in order to be better that he didn't get there were prior to WWDC up [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► until a couple weeks there were a lot of expectations that there might be [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► hardware announcer [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► and if they would you know Mac people are thinking maybe new macbooks maybe a [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► new mac pro I don't really think that new mac pro ever really heated up too [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► much but there were whispers that that the kids the supply constraint of [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► Thunderbolt displays was going down and it's just one of these like catch-22 [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► chicken in the egg problems right like which comes first like well if they're [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► gonna you know they needed desperately need a retina standalone display like [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► this . once you're used to retina on all of your devices from the watch to your [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► phone to your iPad and the imac has this beautiful beautiful display it just [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► sticks out like a sore thumb that their best display for a mac pro is not retina [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► and it's like for me at this point it's like I I almost can't believe how I [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► can't believe I lived my whole life before rent this place but so fuzzy and [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► so it sticks out but if they make it you know what drives it you know does commit [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► you know if they came out with a 5k retina display i think that the existing [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► mac pro wouldn't be able to drive it well there's like again it's like a [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► whole buncha astrix on that like it could with like dual cables maybe and [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► with certain acts like basically like the way that displays are driven over [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► Thunderbolt ports is way more complicated like the more as time goes [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► on I learn even more about it and I learned how little I know about it yeah [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► and like basically there's an asterisk and everything and it's not as simple as [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► well [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► Thunderbolt doesn't have enough bandwidth for this because it isn't [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► technically Thunderbolts displayport that runs that it's like there's all [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► these all these little asterisks like well you can make a bridge get that did [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► this you can use this hack over the cable to do this and and it's basically [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► a mess right now and it will be much cleaner and simpler with Thunderbolt [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► three [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► I remember when that when the original 5k imac came out the first one which is [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► what i'm using right now to give the new wondered you have the original I'd say [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► when you do [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► yes i have the exact same one that you do and i was talking after that was [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► announced that I got to talk and like a product briefing and they explained to [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► me like some of the product marketing people explain exactly how they're [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► driving it into [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► and it's just amazing it's such a hack I mean I had not like a bad hack like a [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► dirty hack but it's you know it's just crazy but it totally makes sense as to [TS]

00:50:27 ◼   ► this is like the embodiment of why Apple likes to make an all-in-one product [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► because all of that ugliness they can just encapsulate it inside the thing and [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► we'll just take care of it will write our own i mean i mentioned this on the [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► event that what they call it that the custom the teeth on the time yet roller [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► the timing controller because it's like they have to have these the the reason [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► they have a custom timing controller i think i think i have it in later times [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► but because they need like two cables to do it they need this timing controller [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► so that the the two signals coming in look like you're just getting one [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► picture that's basically it yeah its 22 pictures that are being combined in one [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► set of you know apples very high frame rate so that you don't notice anything [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► they need to write a custom timing controller it just is it just perfectly [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► embodies why Apple likes to make devices like the imac rather than the mac pro [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► with a standalone display so I think what's going on I think what's going on [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► is that they're going to release a 5k cinema display and they're going to [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► release new mac pros and i'm going to release new macbook pros but it's like [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► that like they can't release any of them until they're already [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► I think honestly that's that's probably just like a choice that they want to [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► release them all together i mean they probably could stand a little bit if if [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► they really felt like it but the fact is it doesn't matter we don't really know I [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► guess they obviously could for example they could release new mac pros that are [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► capable right in this thing and just say just use your old crappy dell monitor or [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► whatever [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► exactly so that's you know probably sometime in the next six months were [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► probably getting all these things if I if I would hazard a guess i'm guessing [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► well the mac pro's a bit of a problem because the history here of course there [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► was a bit of a problem but the the type of zeon it would use if it's being [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► released this fall would most likely be the broad well beyond the sky lake xeon [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► is coming out sometime next year and it's a really big improvement for the [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► sea on platform like there's a lot of other stuff that goes along with that so [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► I'm kind of afraid that Apple's gonna wait for the head and if they do cover [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► if they don't wait will Syracuse [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► well he's always gonna want it Syracuse's back is to the wall at people [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► who don't listen to ATP and I bet the overlap is like ninety percent and [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► probably but the mac OS Sierra doesn't officially run on John's because he's [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► using like a 1998 at bondi bondi blue powermac doesn't doesn't run on it it's [TS]

00:52:58 ◼   ► finally been dropped so now he's in the conundrum mary has been waiting for all [TS]

00:53:02 ◼   ► of these years 20 22 years or something like that to upgrade his mac pro and now [TS]

00:53:07 ◼   ► he then has to or you won't be able to run Mac OS Sierra on it or there there's [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► one of those like hack bootloader programs that will like modify Sierra to [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► actually work like it actually does work they just don't feel like supporting it [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► basically so like you actually could install it through this like [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► unofficially support hack like it what do you think is more offensive to [TS]

00:53:28 ◼   ► syracuse guys they're gonna panic or we're not running it or buying a new [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► macro that he knows is going to be obsolete it's in right like I at this is [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► a really tough position to put him away it's almost like a perfect predator has [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► a new file system yeah and it's the only way that he could use it [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► yeah actually no no they're going to car and they are going to come out the file [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► system for El Capitan right i think so [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► no no why would they did I thought that they were going to so they like plug a [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► disk into El Cap but maybe by the time the file system actually ships that it [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► Ciara will be the old release [TS]

00:54:11 ◼   ► I don't know Anna it's very funny though maybe this really was like a masterful [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► trolling of Syracuse of this year it really was really is but it's his own [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► fault for not buying should about the mac pro as we know as soon as it came [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► out [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► yeah and i even offered to sell me when i sold my 2010 Erehwon much week does [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► run this which is that you know decently better than his 2008 offer to sell to [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► him for a really good Frederick well below market just gonna want to carry [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► but I don't deal with selling it [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► and he was like no I'm August wait i'm happy with my 2008 ok the best time to [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► buy a computer is when it's brand-new and maybe if you're really smart buy it [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► like just a little after it comes out so you can read initial reviews and just [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► make sure there's not like something really stinky right by like like a month [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► or two in yeah yeah yeahs weeks in like apple doesn't they don't lower their [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► prices over time as the computers get older like you're paying the same price [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► and the same computer on day number nine hundred of the mac pro as you're paying [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► on day 0 [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► I like who's I I just can't even imagine who's buying a mac pro right now i mean [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► if you have to [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► yeah i just imagined it almost everyone they're selling right now is through [TS]

00:55:19 ◼   ► gritted teeth like somebody who's old one broke or or they've made a new hire [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► you know you've got a new guy on the staff we got to get him a mac pro or [TS]

00:55:30 ◼   ► something like that right anything else I can be directed by putting the toilet [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► and like August yes dammit like but like you know that makes people mad like this [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► is yet another reason why Apple needs to really look at this and see if they [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► could do this better release things more often because like right now if you buy [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► any mac pro and even know yet [TS]

00:55:51 ◼   ► not a lot of people buy the mac pro you know a lot of people buy the macbook pro [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► and that is also really outdated and you know to have people knowing that these [TS]

00:56:01 ◼   ► things are old and outdated and I think a lot of people i mean not everybody [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► will know knows that but i think a lot of buyers do and they're going to go a [TS]

00:56:07 ◼   ► whole summer now of all these back-to-school sales of our like kids [TS]

00:56:11 ◼   ► going to college buying a whole bunch of macbook pros again like that everyone [TS]

00:56:15 ◼   ► kind of knows are basically like three year old hardware like man that it like [TS]

00:56:19 ◼   ► this this is making people unhappy about buying apple products [TS]

00:56:24 ◼   ► yeah that is not where you want them to be because apples [TS]

00:56:27 ◼   ► I think apples mojo is the fact that people love you know people love by [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► apple products [TS]

00:56:33 ◼   ► exactly it's like you know everybody it's like your Christmas you know people [TS]

00:56:38 ◼   ► at people don't even do unboxing videos save the unboxing video yeah and like [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► like when i got my tubes my cylinder mac pro like a couple months after it was [TS]

00:56:48 ◼   ► released I don't like figure something about year when I got that I was [TS]

00:56:51 ◼   ► really happy with it it was amazing [TS]

00:56:54 ◼   ► if but if I went to buy one today now that I've already replaced it with an [TS]

00:56:58 ◼   ► imac almost two years ago like it's still the same computer to hit a button [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► it that i ordered in December 2013 [TS]

00:57:10 ◼   ► I mean it it's really kind of strange really is and you don't think i think i [TS]

00:57:14 ◼   ► was saying before it's like you can even go down the line and just show that the [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► even within the macbook family the macbook one has gotten a year-over-year [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► update you know less overdue like the more consumer-friendly device is updated [TS]

00:57:31 ◼   ► more regularly than a professional one even within the macbook lineup the pro [TS]

00:57:35 ◼   ► and seems to get short shrift yeah and that's something i get like whatever it [TS]

00:57:41 ◼   ► whatever Apple decides you know what we need to hold back and wait for X that [TS]

00:57:46 ◼   ► needs tweaking and it for a long time it was just like oh you know we'll just [TS]

00:57:49 ◼   ► show up whenever Intel gives new laptop cpus but you know in recent years intel [TS]

00:57:53 ◼   ► has has had a lot of delays we've gotten less reliable so maybe he couple that or [TS]

00:57:58 ◼   ► or you know definitely don't skip any or figure out ways to give more free more [TS]

00:58:03 ◼   ► frequent updates like last year when they they brought the four stalks [TS]

00:58:07 ◼   ► trackpad to the 15-inch macbook pro so like it has technically been updated but [TS]

00:58:13 ◼   ► notice that almost nothing else about changed from her the reason why is that [TS]

00:58:18 ◼   ► the GPU was using was so old that video stop making it or ati with which [TS]

00:58:23 ◼   ► everyone was like they just stopped making the part and Apple was still [TS]

00:58:27 ◼   ► selling these brand-new in the 15-inch macbook pro their highest on laptop [TS]

00:58:31 ◼   ► oh and if that's true i mean that's that's really embarrassing [TS]

00:58:35 ◼   ► hey we just crossed the one hour marker a little bit ago so I think we're on [TS]

00:58:38 ◼   ► pace for a two-hour show we'll see [TS]

00:58:39 ◼   ► yeah okay you haven't seen the length of my notes for the headphone jack i made [TS]

00:58:43 ◼   ► an outline you're in trouble [TS]

00:58:45 ◼   ► let me take another break and thank our very good friends longtime sponsor the [TS]

00:58:49 ◼   ► show audible audible.com has an unmatched selection of audiobooks [TS]

00:58:54 ◼   ► original audio shows news comedy and more get a free 30-day trial at [TS]

00:59:01 ◼   ► audible.com / talk show they've been advertised [TS]

00:59:05 ◼   ► in on podcast forever and I always say it . because anybody is listening to me [TS]

00:59:10 ◼   ► tell you right now about audible is somebody who enjoys spoken word content [TS]

00:59:13 ◼   ► and that's what [TS]

00:59:14 ◼   ► audible has they've got gobs and gobs untold County diamond of hours left in [TS]

00:59:19 ◼   ► your life probably to listen to everything that audible has I used to [TS]

00:59:23 ◼   ► think there's one thing about audible that is it [TS]

00:59:26 ◼   ► I opening to me is that I always sentiment is that audiobooks company and [TS]

00:59:31 ◼   ► they do have thousands and thousands of audiobooks but the other types of [TS]

00:59:36 ◼   ► content they have like the like I just said the original audio shows news the [TS]

00:59:42 ◼   ► comedy and stuff like that tons of stuff like that tube so even if you're not [TS]

00:59:47 ◼   ► into audio books like hearing a novel read out loud or something like that [TS]

00:59:52 ◼   ► there is tons of stuff there if you like spoken word content and if you don't [TS]

00:59:56 ◼   ► like Spock spoken word content I don't understand how you are hearing [TS]

00:59:56 ◼   ► like Spock spoken word content I don't understand how you are hearing [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► you talk to you right now so go there check them out you can get a 30-day free [TS]

01:00:06 ◼   ► trial and you just sign up at audible.com / talk show know that just / [TS]

01:00:11 ◼   ► talk show go there thanks to audible for sponsoring our show go there and fill up [TS]

01:00:16 ◼   ► your phone with audio content [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► alright let's talk about the headphone jack and share you wanted a short show [TS]

01:00:24 ◼   ► CI I'm fascinated by this I I wanted to write about this a few months ago and it [TS]

01:00:32 ◼   ► was one of those things right collected a lot of notes and had some thoughts on [TS]

01:00:34 ◼   ► it and just now I think it's one of those ones where having a podcast sort [TS]

01:00:39 ◼   ► of hurts my column a daring fireball because it was like I talked about it [TS]

01:00:42 ◼   ► was a couple people on the show over a week or two and then it's like I felt [TS]

01:00:45 ◼   ► like I got out of my system so I never wrote about it [TS]

01:00:48 ◼   ► see this is this is where you're in trouble now because you know a few [TS]

01:00:51 ◼   ► months ago when the rumor first started started going around we all talked about [TS]

01:00:54 ◼   ► like I talked about on ATP i remand and so I probably won't get a chance to talk [TS]

01:00:58 ◼   ► about ntp this week so therefore we're gonna dump this on you [TS]

01:01:02 ◼   ► ok because it's interesting like you know so this kind of flamed up again [TS]

01:01:07 ◼   ► this week because nilay patel the verge of the big thing about it was that was [TS]

01:01:11 ◼   ► so yeah harder to start with Daisuke Wakabayashi published a story in The [TS]

01:01:15 ◼   ► Wall Street Journal monday more or less confirming all the stuff that we've [TS]

01:01:19 ◼   ► heard that the next iPhone is going to largely look like the iphone 6 and [TS]

01:01:25 ◼   ► success and yeah removal of the headphone port would be one of the main [TS]

01:01:33 ◼   ► features features this changes changes changes I I Ali ok i will happily [TS]

01:01:39 ◼   ► written that intention to changes and forget it just you know a whole bunch of [TS]

01:01:46 ◼   ► things that we've heard rumored for awhile coming out of the supply chain [TS]

01:01:49 ◼   ► and wakizashi had sources familiar with the matter who can't speak for whatever [TS]

01:01:55 ◼   ► reason confirm them [TS]

01:01:56 ◼   ► ah which is worthwhile it's you know it didn't have any there's nothing in it [TS]

01:02:00 ◼   ► that I hadn't seen before but it's always worthwhile when somebody with the [TS]

01:02:05 ◼   ► stature and the [TS]

01:02:07 ◼   ► the track record of the wall street journal confirms it but then after that [TS]

01:02:10 ◼   ► that's when Neil i published most was the headline and I forget it was like [TS]

01:02:16 ◼   ► something like you know six reasons why the you know you don't want the rueful [TS]

01:02:19 ◼   ► headphone jack and and he even said like in his Twitter lake you making taking [TS]

01:02:22 ◼   ► the headphone jack off iphones is user hostile and stupid and he even said he [TS]

01:02:28 ◼   ► even kind of like-- disclaimed in his twitter link to it like I was really [TS]

01:02:32 ◼   ► angry when I wrote this so it probably sucks like something like that like so [TS]

01:02:35 ◼   ► you know I give the benefit of the doubt on that and a lot of his points i [TS]

01:02:39 ◼   ► thought were valid and good and not all I didn't agree with all of it but I i [TS]

01:02:43 ◼   ► think i agree with most of it and then you wrote this rebuttal piece mostly [TS]

01:02:48 ◼   ► mostly running him i think that was basically like it you know its progress [TS]

01:02:53 ◼   ► that's going to happen why not now is that is that a fair summary I yes it's [TS]

01:02:58 ◼   ► going to happen eventually maybe why not now I if there's one thing that seems [TS]

01:03:02 ◼   ► like people misread it I think Steve stress had a piece on [TS]

01:03:06 ◼   ► yes medium and and his assumption is that I was arguing that this is a good [TS]

01:03:11 ◼   ► change for iphone users and I never said that if you read my thing I never said [TS]

01:03:16 ◼   ► that because i don't know i have no idea what they're replacing with I don't know [TS]

01:03:19 ◼   ► and and walked by she didn't either i think people assume that the default at [TS]

01:03:26 ◼   ► your buds will be lightning if if they're getting rid of the audio port [TS]

01:03:30 ◼   ► what we call it what is it called standard headphone jack doesn't have a [TS]

01:03:33 ◼   ► name [TS]

01:03:33 ◼   ► it has a few names technically it's one of the family of phone plugs and it is [TS]

01:03:38 ◼   ► specifically a 3.5 millimeter trrs jack [TS]

01:03:42 ◼   ► well the TR RS Jack you're welcome i think most people assume that the [TS]

01:03:47 ◼   ► standard earpods are going to be lightning because then they don't have [TS]

01:03:50 ◼   ► to have batteries and there's no latency there's all sorts of good reasons why [TS]

01:03:55 ◼   ► you still want a wired set of your earphones earpods whatever you want to [TS]

01:04:00 ◼   ► call them could be that the defaults will be bluetooth or some other new [TS]

01:04:05 ◼   ► proprietary wireless solution seems like an upsell that does to me too [TS]

01:04:10 ◼   ► also if they were going to have a proprietary wireless thing that we've [TS]

01:04:14 ◼   ► been using the apple watch is Bluetooth sucks for the Apple watch [TS]

01:04:17 ◼   ► so the heat they definitely use it there if they had one well maybe it wasn't [TS]

01:04:20 ◼   ► ready [TS]

01:04:21 ◼   ► maybe it's up there with the skylines eons right i don't know but who knows [TS]

01:04:26 ◼   ► but i just don't know I don't know what the story is and so my argument is more [TS]

01:04:30 ◼   ► I'd i think that the removal of this port is inevitable [TS]

01:04:36 ◼   ► will it be there in 50 years i I just no way so what is the timeframe well i [TS]

01:04:40 ◼   ► think it was there 50 years ago that is true and I think it's you know it it as [TS]

01:04:46 ◼   ► had a remarkable you know run but I feel like the time is up so it just for the [TS]

01:04:51 ◼   ► sake of argument here I looked this up before the show there's a wikipedia [TS]

01:04:54 ◼   ► article on the phone plug the the large like they've never seen like a stereo [TS]

01:04:59 ◼   ► from like the seventies or if you're a high-end headphones nerd and you seem [TS]

01:05:02 ◼   ► like the quarter inch version plug is basically it looks just like the regular [TS]

01:05:05 ◼   ► one but it's about twice as big and dimensions [TS]

01:05:07 ◼   ► yes that version was invented in 1878 for you so enough phone exchanges and [TS]

01:05:15 ◼   ► and the the stereo version that we mostly know today that has that has the [TS]

01:05:20 ◼   ► the two rings halfway through so it has like three total areas of the plug and [TS]

01:05:24 ◼   ► it's smaller than 3.5 million won that one appeared roughly in 1964 and became [TS]

01:05:30 ◼   ► popular with the original sony walkman in 1979 so we're talking about at least [TS]

01:05:36 ◼   ► a good 40 years [TS]

01:05:38 ◼   ► yeah yeah so this thing is old and you know this you know what the reason it [TS]

01:05:45 ◼   ► has lasted so long is because it is universal [TS]

01:05:49 ◼   ► it is very simple electrically it's very very simple [TS]

01:05:52 ◼   ► there's no smarts to it's just like it's just pure analog signal going over these [TS]

01:05:56 ◼   ► you know two or three wires inside the cable or in the case of the of the head [TS]

01:05:59 ◼   ► for remote for wires into the cable very very simple electrically they're very [TS]

01:06:05 ◼   ► reliable for the most part like the the port can get gunked up with dust but so [TS]

01:06:10 ◼   ► can the lighting ports open any port so you know compared to other ports it's [TS]

01:06:14 ◼   ► not particularly bad for reliability it's very very durable and it's very [TS]

01:06:19 ◼   ► very cheap you have this combination of like standard universal cheap durable [TS]

01:06:23 ◼   ► simple like it's really great for all these things and by the way if you think [TS]

01:06:28 ◼   ► it's too thick [TS]

01:06:29 ◼   ► there is also a thinner version this so this version is 3.5 millimeter is a 2.5 [TS]

01:06:34 ◼   ► millimeter [TS]

01:06:34 ◼   ► version that used to be on like some like answering machines and then more [TS]

01:06:39 ◼   ► recently it's often used like on the on the ear end of removable headphone [TS]

01:06:44 ◼   ► cables [TS]

01:06:45 ◼   ► well you'll have like the end of the phone and the other employees into like [TS]

01:06:47 ◼   ► your ear cup and sometimes that'll be the skinnier one you met you I have a [TS]

01:06:50 ◼   ► couple of those I've seen that I i used to own something that had that I don't [TS]

01:06:54 ◼   ► know what the hell was though it doesn't matter [TS]

01:06:57 ◼   ► well the other thing about about making the devices thinner with the standard [TS]

01:07:00 ◼   ► headphone jack i keep pointing this out over and over again but the ipod touch [TS]

01:07:03 ◼   ► still has it and the ipod touch is significantly thinner than the current [TS]

01:07:07 ◼   ► iphone yes and the nanotube i believe it's also thinner and also has its like [TS]

01:07:11 ◼   ► it you know it the reason to remove it now isn't a thickness barrier because [TS]

01:07:16 ◼   ► you know where are you know we see apples apple makes their devices with [TS]

01:07:20 ◼   ► this so that's not the reason i would also say you know so like in my category [TS]

01:07:24 ◼   ► of like reason that doesn't have to go yet you know it assuming it has to go [TS]

01:07:28 ◼   ► out sometime [TS]

01:07:29 ◼   ► they're one of the reasons this might be the time is like you know what are we [TS]

01:07:32 ◼   ► gaining they're moving out because there's cost-of-living it so i think one [TS]

01:07:36 ◼   ► thing we're gaining would be you know a lot of people assume space for the [TS]

01:07:39 ◼   ► battery right except that if you look at the tear downs of you know where this [TS]

01:07:43 ◼   ► port is on the phone while you're down there at the bottom next to the [TS]

01:07:46 ◼   ► Lightning assembly and everything and then on the other side of the speaker [TS]

01:07:48 ◼   ► next we meet again microphone everything down there like that's not where you [TS]

01:07:52 ◼   ► need space for the battery I mean they could go to some kind of crazy system [TS]

01:07:56 ◼   ► like the macbook one where they have like different shapes of battery things [TS]

01:08:00 ◼   ► all over the place but this is a phone and they have to replace a lot of phone [TS]

01:08:03 ◼   ► batteries under warranty and people replace them aftermarket anyone when [TS]

01:08:07 ◼   ► they're old and in different countries and everything you need the battery to [TS]

01:08:11 ◼   ► be easily serviceable replaceable and cheap and so keeping it as one regular [TS]

01:08:15 ◼   ► rectangle of a battery is way more practical for them and also like the [TS]

01:08:20 ◼   ► total amount of space you would save or the supersonic space you would gain by [TS]

01:08:25 ◼   ► invading that little you know rectangle of area at the bottom of the phone where [TS]

01:08:29 ◼   ► the headphone jack is you can just make the battery like some minuscule amount [TS]

01:08:32 ◼   ► thicker and keep it in the same footprint and it would have that same [TS]

01:08:36 ◼   ► volume increase and be way cheaper and easier to deal with so like battery life [TS]

01:08:40 ◼   ► is probably not the reason either because it's just like where it is in [TS]

01:08:46 ◼   ► the phone and what else is down there like [TS]

01:08:48 ◼   ► don't really see a massive internal redesign of the phone layout inside [TS]

01:08:52 ◼   ► where that space would suddenly become space you could expand the battery into [TS]

01:08:57 ◼   ► it might but I think it's unlikely [TS]

01:08:59 ◼   ► well I think it goes far enough in that the space is significant but I don't [TS]

01:09:02 ◼   ► think its use [TS]

01:09:03 ◼   ► I think the biggest city space-saving argument or or three-dimensional you [TS]

01:09:08 ◼   ► know this thing is just too big or too thick or too long argument would [TS]

01:09:11 ◼   ► probably have to do with next year's new iphone which I believe it is you know I [TS]

01:09:16 ◼   ► mentioned it on the show and I know whether there's rumors about it to that [TS]

01:09:20 ◼   ► if it goes to more of an edge-to-edge display which would be like the top and [TS]

01:09:24 ◼   ► bottom of the display go to the edges closes the sides do now then I think [TS]

01:09:29 ◼   ► it's a problem because I don't it [TS]

01:09:31 ◼   ► I think it's a lot harder to have the jit the jack would therefore have to be [TS]

01:09:34 ◼   ► underneath the display [TS]

01:09:36 ◼   ► yes so remove it then well thats what im saying you don't think that the y now [TS]

01:09:41 ◼   ► that doesn't count for y now unless they just right [TS]

01:09:45 ◼   ► possibly just want to eat the shit sandwich now of putting up with people's [TS]

01:09:50 ◼   ► complaints about this a year in advance of unveiling that phone so that people [TS]

01:09:55 ◼   ► don't complain about it when the amazing new industrial design is unveiled and [TS]

01:09:59 ◼   ► and that might be the reason but that's a crappy reason I don't think that's the [TS]

01:10:02 ◼   ► reason though i don't think there is a reason all I'm saying it you know this [TS]

01:10:06 ◼   ► is the the secondary thrust of my art you know my argument which is what we [TS]

01:10:10 ◼   ► don't know how about we just wait and find out what the story is before we [TS]

01:10:13 ◼   ► complain like it's to me that it's it's too soon to say this is user hostile and [TS]

01:10:19 ◼   ► stupid right although it's also too late to change it right but we don't have [TS]

01:10:23 ◼   ► proof that it's not user hostile and stupid [TS]

01:10:25 ◼   ► it might be that guess that if there's anything that i wish i would have [TS]

01:10:28 ◼   ► emphasized more it's like okay maybe it is but we certainly don't know that yet [TS]

01:10:31 ◼   ► and it may well not be i'm wondering and you know you definitely know more about [TS]

01:10:37 ◼   ► headphones and I do is I'm wondering about if it switches to lightning [TS]

01:10:41 ◼   ► something digital how much better could the input be not just that output right [TS]

01:10:48 ◼   ► now you think of headphones output you put them in and you listen right but [TS]

01:10:52 ◼   ► like the whole input stuff like voice you know through the microphone and the [TS]

01:10:57 ◼   ► little clicks like when you you know what they're like play pause and fast [TS]

01:11:01 ◼   ► forward and stuff like [TS]

01:11:01 ◼   ► I mean you know we write a podcast player that stuff is all that's just [TS]

01:11:05 ◼   ► like it serious hack it is a hack but it's also it also works [TS]

01:11:10 ◼   ► yeah he's letting you know the main thing that you can say in from that [TS]

01:11:13 ◼   ► point of view is that is limiting like for example you can only have mono input [TS]

01:11:17 ◼   ► right now there's only there's only one pin for the microphone return so like [TS]

01:11:21 ◼   ► you can only have one chance so if you wanted to have like I you know a nicer [TS]

01:11:25 ◼   ► microphone setup maybe if you want a podcast or record something from your [TS]

01:11:27 ◼   ► from your device you can if you're using that port you can only record a mono and [TS]

01:11:32 ◼   ► lightning adapter look you know lightning devices can add much more than [TS]

01:11:36 ◼   ► that they can have all sorts of inputs and outputs and and especially if they [TS]

01:11:39 ◼   ► have custom custom apps to deal with them then they can do a lot of the most [TS]

01:11:42 ◼   ► of them do but that also isn't a good argument because like well we already [TS]

01:11:46 ◼   ► have that now that you don't have to remove the headphone port to have [TS]

01:11:49 ◼   ► lightning audio we have lighting audio already and we also have the headphone [TS]

01:11:53 ◼   ► port [TS]

01:11:54 ◼   ► yeah but you know and there's also by the way while we're on this topic there [TS]

01:12:01 ◼   ► there's a huge argument going around with with the pro side of this that this [TS]

01:12:07 ◼   ► could enable better audio quality and let me tell you as an audio file that is [TS]

01:12:12 ◼   ► complete garbage this this doesn't it first of all you know you have the same [TS]

01:12:16 ◼   ► problem of like well if lightning headphones can be better [TS]

01:12:20 ◼   ► great we can have that now we don't need to remove the headphone jack to make [TS]

01:12:23 ◼   ► that happen and and the way iOS channels audio devices if any other device is [TS]

01:12:28 ◼   ► connected via lightning or USB or whatever that device just takes over [TS]

01:12:33 ◼   ► from the built-in microphone and speakers and headphones and everything [TS]

01:12:36 ◼   ► else like you don't even have to like this offer is not to do anything to take [TS]

01:12:39 ◼   ► advantage of lightning connector audio devices that they just works so there's [TS]

01:12:43 ◼   ► basically no downside [TS]

01:12:45 ◼   ► from that point of view to keeping the headphone jack around and the idea that [TS]

01:12:48 ◼   ► some people have that a lightning connected headphone would have better [TS]

01:12:52 ◼   ► audio quality because you could have like a really nice deck and amp that [TS]

01:12:56 ◼   ► deck is the DAC to audio converter that converts literally convert the digital [TS]

01:13:00 ◼   ► signal to the sound that you hear and then of course the amplifies that two [TS]

01:13:04 ◼   ► different volumes for you at the end . it has to go to analog there's no right [TS]

01:13:09 ◼   ► because it's actually going to put sound waves into your ear right and so that I [TS]

01:13:13 ◼   ► wouldn't worry about the drm angle [TS]

01:13:15 ◼   ► you know I did because I like it would be trivial to let you know if if you [TS]

01:13:18 ◼   ► actually relying on like analog output to capture to rerecord to pirate [TS]

01:13:23 ◼   ► something will be trivial to just you know take apart the headphones and [TS]

01:13:26 ◼   ► connect couple things to their to the trip to the wires go to the drivers and [TS]

01:13:29 ◼   ► you know that be it so that's that part of the drm is not a concern licensing [TS]

01:13:33 ◼   ► the connector is but I'll get to that but the idea that you get better audio [TS]

01:13:38 ◼   ► quality out of having separate like premium headphones have premium [TS]

01:13:43 ◼   ► dachshund amson them that is possible however it's extremely unlikely in [TS]

01:13:48 ◼   ► reality because in reality it is very difficult to distinguish differences [TS]

01:13:54 ◼   ► between Dax and amps especially once you've crossed a minimum threshold and [TS]

01:13:58 ◼   ► like people who made this argument are often talking about like how Jackson [TS]

01:14:02 ◼   ► computers are always crappy and the fact is they were really crappy like in the [TS]

01:14:06 ◼   ► nineties that's when they were crappy and most like built-in headphone jacks [TS]

01:14:11 ◼   ► and and sound cards that are in computers and and our phones and tablets [TS]

01:14:15 ◼   ► today are pretty decent like they're fine and the limiting factor to how good [TS]

01:14:20 ◼   ► they can sound is not the quality of the DAC and the amp in the phone it's almost [TS]

01:14:25 ◼   ► always limiting factor is the headphones that using and the environment you're [TS]

01:14:30 ◼   ► listening in like that's [TS]

01:14:31 ◼   ► that's it like when you're listening to your phone like you might be commuting [TS]

01:14:34 ◼   ► you might be outside you might be in a loud shared office and you're probably [TS]

01:14:37 ◼   ► listening on headphones that are like you know at best decent probably not [TS]

01:14:42 ◼   ► amazing [TS]

01:14:43 ◼   ► probably not like the big full-size open-back ones that audio files like to [TS]

01:14:47 ◼   ► listen critically with and those headphones listening on like there's so [TS]

01:14:52 ◼   ► much room for improvement in the sound just by better headphones better drivers [TS]

01:14:57 ◼   ► better tuning of the sound him to make it you know less trying to imitate beats [TS]

01:15:02 ◼   ► badly and more just trying to sound good and you know like that is where [TS]

01:15:06 ◼   ► improvement comes from it does not come from in the portable brown but does not [TS]

01:15:09 ◼   ► usually come from different tax and apps at that dachshund answer just a really [TS]

01:15:13 ◼   ► nice way to sell overpriced stuff people who want better sound but never [TS]

01:15:18 ◼   ► considered the fact that they should just buy better headphones [TS]

01:15:21 ◼   ► I I saw somebody today and I'm sorry who [TS]

01:15:24 ◼   ► no that's okay this is good somebody today was speculating that maybe they [TS]

01:15:29 ◼   ► will switch they'll do like a noise cancelling thing and they'll have the [TS]

01:15:33 ◼   ► the stuff on the phone doing it like right now when you buy noise-canceling [TS]

01:15:37 ◼   ► headphones you have to put batteries in the actual headphones like when you buy [TS]

01:15:40 ◼   ► them from bos or whatever because it takes it takes power to actually do the [TS]

01:15:45 ◼   ► noise cancelling so the phone could do it but I i find that unlikely like it [TS]

01:15:51 ◼   ► sounds good when you think about noise cancelling you know some people like [TS]

01:15:53 ◼   ► noise cancelling headphones and in certain scenarios like being on an [TS]

01:15:56 ◼   ► airplane [TS]

01:15:57 ◼   ► I it's you know really is very useful but i think that sounds very unlikely to [TS]

01:16:02 ◼   ► me that anybody is going to find it and I a good idea to have headphones that [TS]

01:16:06 ◼   ► draw power from your iphone like when you're using the headphones your you'll [TS]

01:16:11 ◼   ► get worse battery life like that [TS]

01:16:13 ◼   ► yeah that doesn't sound like something people are gonna sign up for like there [TS]

01:16:19 ◼   ► is a penguin analyze things what I mean in reality like it isn't that much power [TS]

01:16:23 ◼   ► but it's still you know it's still not trivial but the reality is like the [TS]

01:16:30 ◼   ► high-end headphones like noise canceling everything [TS]

01:16:32 ◼   ► those are all moving bluetooth now and I believe my have I have things to say [TS]

01:16:36 ◼   ► about bluetooth as well but I think like a horse had this argument is like what [TS]

01:16:41 ◼   ► lighting headphones will be great but you know what lighting headphones are [TS]

01:16:43 ◼   ► very expensive like pretty premium price right now this very few of them in the [TS]

01:16:47 ◼   ► fields are very expensive they will always be more expensive than other [TS]

01:16:50 ◼   ► headphones because they're gonna have the Apple licensing the mfi you know [TS]

01:16:54 ◼   ► stuff and then they're gonna want to be sold an apple retail stores are gonna [TS]

01:16:57 ◼   ► have these you know primo you there i'm guessing mostly headphones are going to [TS]

01:17:00 ◼   ► be above 300 dollars in all likelihood and you're gonna have this stuff but the [TS]

01:17:05 ◼   ► problem is if you look at the headphone market everyone's kinda freaking out and [TS]

01:17:08 ◼   ► trying to rush out bluetooth models in the last couple years because everybody [TS]

01:17:12 ◼   ► wants noise cancelling and Bluetooth at in the high-end like if you're looking [TS]

01:17:17 ◼   ► at high-end headphones like headphones that cost more than 200 bucks there are [TS]

01:17:21 ◼   ► four iphones or for portable use like everybody wants bluetooth and noise [TS]

01:17:27 ◼   ► cancelling and so that is you know in many ways that's an argument for the [TS]

01:17:33 ◼   ► headphone jack removal because you can say well you know if everyone's going [TS]

01:17:36 ◼   ► bluetooth then you know we don't need this right and this is why I think like [TS]

01:17:40 ◼   ► no bluetooth is it in many ways it is worse then wired headphones it in many [TS]

01:17:49 ◼   ► ways it's a lot worse than wear headphones like the sound quality is [TS]

01:17:52 ◼   ► usually pretty rough [TS]

01:17:54 ◼   ► by the way the reason sound quality is pretty rough is not usually because of [TS]

01:17:58 ◼   ► lossy compression over Bluetooth it is usually because the headphones are kind [TS]

01:18:04 ◼   ► of mediocre or garbagey and they they have guess what they have a built-in [TS]

01:18:09 ◼   ► deck and amp in every bluetooth headphone because it has to because it [TS]

01:18:12 ◼   ► does not powered by your phone and the signals transmitted originally from your [TS]

01:18:16 ◼   ► phone so we already have a world full of aftermarket Jackson amps in headphones [TS]

01:18:21 ◼   ► and they're all guard pitch and the the most sophisticated things they do are [TS]

01:18:27 ◼   ► they tweak the audio they tweaked like the EQ curve of the audio coming out of [TS]

01:18:31 ◼   ► the headphones to make up for crappy headphone drivers so like if you have if [TS]

01:18:36 ◼   ► you have headphones and say you know suppose they have like really weak base [TS]

01:18:39 ◼   ► and they know that everybody wants strong base they'll just use the the [TS]

01:18:45 ◼   ► deck and chip in in the bluetooth headphone they will tweak the sound [TS]

01:18:49 ◼   ► before they send it out to the head to the driver to get artificially boost the [TS]

01:18:53 ◼   ► base and these are like you know cheap components doing things you know it in [TS]

01:18:58 ◼   ► you know a very basic way it sounds pretty rough and you can hear this [TS]

01:19:03 ◼   ► yourself if you have like noise cancelling headphones like any bose [TS]

01:19:07 ◼   ► headphones that also can operate with a wire passively if you can like turn off [TS]

01:19:11 ◼   ► the noise cancelling and use them with the wire turn it off and listen to how [TS]

01:19:16 ◼   ► much worse everything sounds that what you hear when it's off that's like what [TS]

01:19:21 ◼   ► the headphones and app actually sound like when you turn it on there like [TS]

01:19:24 ◼   ► applying this big EQ curve to try to like boost it and make it sound better [TS]

01:19:28 ◼   ► artificially but it never it's never quite right it never sounds great or [TS]

01:19:32 ◼   ► natural [TS]

01:19:32 ◼   ► that's the world we're going towards it for if we're going towards more [TS]

01:19:36 ◼   ► bluetooth more lightning you know headphones that are not just passive [TS]

01:19:40 ◼   ► analog devices but actually have active circuitry [TS]

01:19:42 ◼   ► them it's not going towards the world of like amazing Jackson amps and portable [TS]

01:19:46 ◼   ► headphones it's going towards the world of mediocre headphones that have their [TS]

01:19:50 ◼   ► flaws paper over by kind of these these DSP hacks so what are they gonna do I [TS]

01:19:56 ◼   ► feel like if they switch if Apple's story is ok by this new iphone when you [TS]

01:20:00 ◼   ► open it up you get a pair of our new bluetooth ear pods or whatever they're [TS]

01:20:06 ◼   ► going to call them and somebody had a nose like a trademark filing on the word [TS]

01:20:09 ◼   ► air pod there's no way that that's in the package you know I'm thinking in the [TS]

01:20:14 ◼   ► package you get like you get the the cable adapted version of them just like [TS]

01:20:18 ◼   ► today and then they will tell you with the lightning port in some form you know [TS]

01:20:23 ◼   ► whether it's like a dongle and then had no other information we have headphones [TS]

01:20:27 ◼   ► there's no way they're probably not no way bro it will definitely sell you on [TS]

01:20:30 ◼   ► but they might put in the Box I don't know [TS]

01:20:32 ◼   ► no probably not but not either way they might give you a dongle so that you can [TS]

01:20:38 ◼   ► use your existing headphones if you'd prefer not to but the headphones they've [TS]

01:20:41 ◼   ► given the box have to just plug right in and that means it has to add that's [TS]

01:20:44 ◼   ► probably right [TS]

01:20:45 ◼   ► yeah so i'm guessing that they will gladly sell you a set of air pods if [TS]

01:20:50 ◼   ► that's going to be a real product name they will sell you a bluetooth version [TS]

01:20:53 ◼   ► of headphones for I don't know a hundred fifty bucks 200 bucks maybe like you [TS]

01:20:57 ◼   ► know that's going to be an add-on that's not going to be in the box because you [TS]

01:21:00 ◼   ► mean but you know let's let's not forget that Apple's really good at like making [TS]

01:21:04 ◼   ► you spend a little bit more money . sale and all those attachments sounds like [TS]

01:21:07 ◼   ► they've mastered this now i think both of youse both of these ideas qualify as [TS]

01:21:11 ◼   ► of course that's what they're going to do their Apple of course Apple isn't [TS]

01:21:15 ◼   ► going to make you use a dongle their apple there's no way they're going to [TS]

01:21:18 ◼   ► make use dongle and of course the air wireless ones are going to be it [TS]

01:21:23 ◼   ► expensive upset because their advocates exactly so that's sold and and the idea [TS]

01:21:30 ◼   ► of like moving towards the world of Bluetooth because let's be honest it's [TS]

01:21:35 ◼   ► going to be mostly it's not going to be mostly lighting headphones except for [TS]

01:21:37 ◼   ► the ones that come in the box those will be very popular but like aftermarket [TS]

01:21:41 ◼   ► headphones i think going to be way more often bluetooth and not in the future in [TS]

01:21:46 ◼   ► the near future if the story and we're almost there now if the story is go go [TS]

01:21:51 ◼   ► with bluetooth [TS]

01:21:53 ◼   ► it solved some of the problems in terms of why would they get rid of the [TS]

01:21:57 ◼   ► headphone jack well we got rid of it because the futures wireless and it also [TS]

01:22:01 ◼   ► solves the how do I listen to music while i charge my phone problem which is [TS]

01:22:06 ◼   ► a real problem i mean and i'm dying the solution is you discharge the other [TS]

01:22:11 ◼   ► device that you were on your head at the seat [TS]

01:22:12 ◼   ► well how would you do that no you're right maybe the solution is you know [TS]

01:22:17 ◼   ► either way ship and kind of pass through adapter which would be pretty clunky [TS]

01:22:20 ◼   ► Wright or or you know you just use bluetooth and when using bluetooth the [TS]

01:22:27 ◼   ► iphone it is my concern with the better level of your headphones that's your [TS]

01:22:30 ◼   ► problem it [TS]

01:22:33 ◼   ► yeah and it does seem it seems we're doing i have to admit i mean this is one [TS]

01:22:36 ◼   ► of these things ever since the things started I don't see how they're going to [TS]

01:22:39 ◼   ► sell this and that you know what's the story going to be because I totally [TS]

01:22:44 ◼   ► acknowledged i guess--i Jonas doing it all the time where he's got like an iPad [TS]

01:22:48 ◼   ► it three percent and he's charging it while he's still listening to the [TS]

01:22:52 ◼   ► YouTube stuff that is on it while he plays the PlayStation I totally [TS]

01:22:57 ◼   ► recognize that I know a lots and lots of people do they do it on airplanes if [TS]

01:23:00 ◼   ► you're lucky enough to fly on an airline that has you know USB or power adapters [TS]

01:23:04 ◼   ► people charge their phone while they listen to music on the flight [TS]

01:23:08 ◼   ► I know people do it at their desks people will charge their phone while [TS]

01:23:11 ◼   ► they're listening to music on it you know it's it i understand it and I don't [TS]

01:23:17 ◼   ► if there's just one lightning port and of course they're not going to put to [TS]

01:23:20 ◼   ► lighting ports on the thing not how do you listen with lightning headphones I [TS]

01:23:24 ◼   ► mean and that's the one idea that people were kicking around when the rumors were [TS]

01:23:28 ◼   ► that the the new iphones we're going to have the smarts connector type thing on [TS]

01:23:32 ◼   ► the back that maybe they really like a Apple watch style magnetic charger but I [TS]

01:23:39 ◼   ► know it doesn't seem right now it's just like you know we already got like you [TS]

01:23:43 ◼   ► know the as a as a ship more and more other things that charge by lightning [TS]

01:23:48 ◼   ► it's pretty clear like that we have now a world where lightning is like the [TS]

01:23:53 ◼   ► universal apple charger for all apple products except the watch annoyingly but [TS]

01:23:57 ◼   ► everything else it's like everything charges by lightning and i don't i don't [TS]

01:24:02 ◼   ► see them throwing that away so soon yeah the pencil charge [TS]

01:24:06 ◼   ► is by it the the rumored that I forget if if somebody just pulled this out of [TS]

01:24:11 ◼   ► their ass or if it was a real leak that the air pods would have liked a little [TS]

01:24:14 ◼   ► some kind of little lightning thing that comes out or goes I don't know bluetooth [TS]

01:24:19 ◼   ► I I'm lucky that i don't i don't actually use earbuds or in your monitors [TS]

01:24:23 ◼   ► that I I just can't wear them like pain while I can't wear them [TS]

01:24:27 ◼   ► bluetooth is you know it's annoying for full-size headphones but it's not that [TS]

01:24:32 ◼   ► bad [TS]

01:24:33 ◼   ► bluetooth for ear buds has a whole bunch of challenges like well where do you put [TS]

01:24:37 ◼   ► the battery and how do they connect to each other and like there's all sorts of [TS]

01:24:41 ◼   ► like weird hacks that people have devised like well you have this like [TS]

01:24:44 ◼   ► thing behind your neck or something you know that there is always some some kind [TS]

01:24:47 ◼   ► of trick but it's tricky to get bluetooth them to you into earbuds in a [TS]

01:24:50 ◼   ► way that doesn't suck but you know overall like Bluetooth like moving [TS]

01:24:55 ◼   ► toward the water bluetooth headphones you know it's in so many ways it's worse [TS]

01:24:59 ◼   ► like the number-one problem is of course this is one more thing you have to [TS]

01:25:04 ◼   ► charge and if you're traveling that might mean one more cable to bring or [TS]

01:25:07 ◼   ► something and one more battery that could just diet inopportune times and it [TS]

01:25:11 ◼   ► just kind of annoying they're also they tend to be substantially more expensive [TS]

01:25:15 ◼   ► than other headphones of similar you know quality attributes and it bluetooth [TS]

01:25:20 ◼   ► is slightly unreliable like it works most of the time but like every time I'm [TS]

01:25:25 ◼   ► walking with my with my bluetooth the being a little portable headphones for [TS]

01:25:29 ◼   ► walking listen to podcast every time I have like a little clip out of the audio [TS]

01:25:33 ◼   ► during some part of the walk if I like turn if I like put my hand in the wrong [TS]

01:25:37 ◼   ► spot like in my pocket or something like it like blocks the signal just enough to [TS]

01:25:41 ◼   ► tell can't quite make it a little static and I gotta move my hand like and I've [TS]

01:25:44 ◼   ► tested so many pairs of bluetooth headphones they all have that problem [TS]

01:25:47 ◼   ► like it so it's always some of them are better than others but they all have [TS]

01:25:50 ◼   ► that problem to some degree and it is the big problem of using whatever [TS]

01:25:54 ◼   ► headphones you come up with bluetooth and lightning this would actually be [TS]

01:25:56 ◼   ► substantially worse using the same headphones for multiple devices so [TS]

01:26:01 ◼   ► suppose like like what I want when I want a plain i'm always switching my [TS]

01:26:05 ◼   ► headphones to whatever device i'm using so if we're like you know taking off or [TS]

01:26:09 ◼   ► whatever i'm going to try to sleep i'll have my phone in my pocket but then it [TS]

01:26:12 ◼   ► might take out my laptop or iPad to try to get something done on the tray i'm [TS]

01:26:17 ◼   ► going to put your headphones to that and [TS]

01:26:19 ◼   ► it and you know a lot of people they use the same headphones between work and [TS]

01:26:23 ◼   ► home at their computer or a Tory to work an ipod like excuse me iphones ipods are [TS]

01:26:28 ◼   ► ancient [TS]

01:26:29 ◼   ► so you know with bluetooth like because of Bluetooth you know pairing everything [TS]

01:26:34 ◼   ► it's just such a pain to share bluetooth headphones between multiple devices [TS]

01:26:40 ◼   ► yeah that's in practice nobody really does it like you can place a good some [TS]

01:26:44 ◼   ► of them have like a multiple pairing memory but if they're always weird and [TS]

01:26:47 ◼   ► hard to use and it's effectively bluetooth headphones you know in [TS]

01:26:50 ◼   ► practice they just kind of get locked to their primary device so nobody ever [TS]

01:26:54 ◼   ► really change this with that sucks Lightning would be even worse because [TS]

01:26:57 ◼   ► yes you could you could stop light in between like your iPhone your iPad but [TS]

01:27:01 ◼   ► then you what you do when you go to your Mac like you can't plug let your [TS]

01:27:04 ◼   ► lightning happens in your mac and that seems crazy I mean ice threw it out [TS]

01:27:10 ◼   ► there as a spitball this week that what if that's the reason the macbook pros [TS]

01:27:13 ◼   ► are being delayed because they're gonna put a lightning port I'm just so that [TS]

01:27:17 ◼   ► you can plug your headphones in [TS]

01:27:18 ◼   ► but but he doesn't you know in every other way other than the idea that i [TS]

01:27:24 ◼   ► would like to be able to use the headphones same headphones with my [TS]

01:27:27 ◼   ► iPhone and my mac which is a very reasonable desire [TS]

01:27:31 ◼   ► other than that it doesn't make any sense to put a lightning port on a Mac [TS]

01:27:34 ◼   ► but I don't you know I I'd I don't know maybe I don't mean it doesn't seem I [TS]

01:27:40 ◼   ► wouldn't I wouldn't faint if that was announced but it doesn't seem right [TS]

01:27:44 ◼   ► again [TS]

01:27:46 ◼   ► the only thing that really makes sense bluetooth but like you said bluetooth [TS]

01:27:49 ◼   ► sharing between devices is really weird you gotta like it's just like click [TS]

01:27:53 ◼   ► click click or tap tap [TS]

01:27:54 ◼   ► you know settings Bluetooth unpair type this creates just yeah it's it's it's [TS]

01:27:59 ◼   ► crappy and like and on the Android side they have this whole NFC system to to [TS]

01:28:04 ◼   ► make pairing faster and easier it's possible Apple could add that to the [TS]

01:28:07 ◼   ► iphone they already have the NFC antenna for a play at it I don't know much about [TS]

01:28:10 ◼   ► NFC but it's probably the same antenna so it's possibly do something like that [TS]

01:28:14 ◼   ► but honestly i don't see that I don't know it's hard to beat the the the [TS]

01:28:19 ◼   ► pairing process of headphones as we know them [TS]

01:28:23 ◼   ► yeah just like him in like when it clearly like yeah and then if you want [TS]

01:28:27 ◼   ► to you know if you want to all of a sudden have the headphones be playing [TS]

01:28:30 ◼   ► output from a different device you know you do you just [TS]

01:28:33 ◼   ► plug it and you plug the other device and because they all the same port like [TS]

01:28:37 ◼   ► even the macbook one has no other ports except it has a headphone port [TS]

01:28:41 ◼   ► ok that's like--that's the wall besides the USBC that's like that's like the one [TS]

01:28:45 ◼   ► other port they deemed worthy of including my computer was an important [TS]

01:28:49 ◼   ► like that that just kind of shows like how ubiquitous and an important and how [TS]

01:28:53 ◼   ► compelling it is for the support to get into to continue to exist like so it [TS]

01:28:58 ◼   ► ultimately though like if this thing about the iphone is true i think the [TS]

01:29:03 ◼   ► world of lightning headphones is generally terrible a terrible idea and [TS]

01:29:08 ◼   ► is probably not going to be very healthy nobody maybe probably going to be mostly [TS]

01:29:12 ◼   ► adapters to regular headphones or Bluetooth maybe though it'll kickstart [TS]

01:29:17 ◼   ► because no it hasn't taken off to date because why why would you bother getting [TS]

01:29:21 ◼   ► lightning headphones when you can get a regular headphone jack headphones that [TS]

01:29:25 ◼   ► are you know have the same audio quality and they're cheaper right by the way i [TS]

01:29:29 ◼   ► should point out too i love i love this so much [TS]

01:29:32 ◼   ► the headphones that are pictured and every article about lighting headphones [TS]

01:29:35 ◼   ► on the verge are the odds al8 titanium or platinum or something there eight [TS]

01:29:41 ◼   ► hundred dollars and they sound terrible [TS]

01:29:44 ◼   ► just just putting that out there they look really cool and we're gonna have [TS]

01:29:49 ◼   ► lots of lightning headphones that look really cool and cost a lot of money but [TS]

01:29:53 ◼   ► hopefully it'll sound better than the yellow heat sorry Jose I'm know there's [TS]

01:29:57 ◼   ► one sponsor I'm never gonna get let's dispel the notion that may be made I've [TS]

01:30:02 ◼   ► seen this kicked around and i think is total nonsense never gonna happen is [TS]

01:30:07 ◼   ► that the solution is one of the problems people have lighting the idea of using [TS]

01:30:10 ◼   ► lightning as the port for wired headphones is that now you're stuck with [TS]

01:30:14 ◼   ► an apple proprietary solution that has to get a licensing fee has to meet [TS]

01:30:17 ◼   ► apples approval and therefore has to be more expensive than it would be [TS]

01:30:21 ◼   ► otherwise because whatever the licensing fee is its if it's even a penny that [TS]

01:30:25 ◼   ► means that thing's gonna cost a penny more [TS]

01:30:27 ◼   ► it's and it's not going to be a penny right well but the idea of people I've [TS]

01:30:32 ◼   ► seen kicking about is well okay well if a headphone port it should be open and [TS]

01:30:36 ◼   ► everybody likes having an open standard why not us bc maybe that's the idea that [TS]

01:30:42 ◼   ► the iphone switch to us bc and guess what [TS]

01:30:44 ◼   ► headphone port aside the iphone [TS]

01:30:46 ◼   ► is not going to switch to us bc there's no chance of that no chance first of all [TS]

01:30:50 ◼   ► it's thicker the lining right then that alone is a deal breaker and i'll put it [TS]

01:30:54 ◼   ► in the show notes hopefully but there's not a good link to somebody did like a [TS]

01:30:57 ◼   ► really nice precise diagram showing just how much thicker it is and it actually [TS]

01:31:02 ◼   ► would be pretty close to a gating factor already on the iphone 6 and everybody [TS]

01:31:08 ◼   ► knows a place to make devices thinner overtime so yeah like when you just [TS]

01:31:12 ◼   ► eyeball them side-by-side you can say oh yeah they're like more or less the same [TS]

01:31:15 ◼   ► but when you get right down to it and start measuring the you know tenths of a [TS]

01:31:20 ◼   ► millimeter it's it's too big of a difference [TS]

01:31:23 ◼   ► yeah definitely and it strategically apple is not going to give up their [TS]

01:31:26 ◼   ► proprietary port that they've had on the iphone all along for a non-proprietary [TS]

01:31:30 ◼   ► port just that they can have a quote-unquote open headphones [TS]

01:31:35 ◼   ► yeah and then they couldn't possibly care less so yeah I mean and and the the [TS]

01:31:39 ◼   ► be cost increase I mean headphones already especially you know especially [TS]

01:31:44 ◼   ► headphones that are targeted at smartphone use and there would be kind [TS]

01:31:49 ◼   ► of we sold an apple store like the price of the headphone has so little to do [TS]

01:31:54 ◼   ► with the cost of its components in this market that that would not like the cost [TS]

01:31:59 ◼   ► of FI certification would probably not be the reason why this headphone cost a [TS]

01:32:03 ◼   ► lot right [TS]

01:32:04 ◼   ► these headphones cost a lot because they know their song into a premium market [TS]

01:32:08 ◼   ► that's based mostly on brand recognition and being sold a high-end retail store [TS]

01:32:12 ◼   ► like that is why that is why these headphones cost what they do lighting [TS]

01:32:16 ◼   ► headphones will be expensive but it won't be because of the raw component [TS]

01:32:19 ◼   ► costs increase it will be because everything else about them so that's [TS]

01:32:23 ◼   ► that's that you know ultimately like I really do believe that we are heading [TS]

01:32:28 ◼   ► towards a world of Apple pushing up you know it assuming this is true the real [TS]

01:32:34 ◼   ► push is going to be towards polluted it's not gonna be towards the new [TS]

01:32:37 ◼   ► cabling standards going to be bluetooth because that again we're already moving [TS]

01:32:42 ◼   ► there so much because the reality is like as you use it like look i have a [TS]

01:32:46 ◼   ► whole closet and a couple of drawers full of way better headphones that my [TS]

01:32:51 ◼   ► little bluetooth walking pair and yet little blue the walking pair is the 1i [TS]

01:32:56 ◼   ► am using most often with my iphone [TS]

01:32:58 ◼   ► because even though it is worse in so many different ways it's more [TS]

01:33:03 ◼   ► complicated it's more expensive needs to be charged [TS]

01:33:07 ◼   ► it's a little bit flaky with that connection when i move my hand worse it [TS]

01:33:10 ◼   ► sounds worse like the sound quality is worth so much about it is worse [TS]

01:33:14 ◼   ► however it is more compelling and if you look at like it you know worse but more [TS]

01:33:21 ◼   ► compelling is like the theme of modern computing advances so many things we [TS]

01:33:26 ◼   ► have no just it we have given up reliability simplicity openness cost so [TS]

01:33:32 ◼   ► you know something like good hatcheries we've given those up for a new thing [TS]

01:33:36 ◼   ► that is just you know a nicer in some way or I wanted more or it's just more [TS]

01:33:43 ◼   ► compelling for some reason and that's how thats why i like I don't know [TS]

01:33:47 ◼   ► anybody who has who has started using bluetooth headphones and then ever [TS]

01:33:52 ◼   ► wanted to use wired headphones again it's like Wi-Fi vs ethernet worse but [TS]

01:33:55 ◼   ► more compelling that's exactly in the early years of a Wi-Fi and Wi-Fi now is [TS]

01:34:01 ◼   ► pretty decent [TS]

01:34:02 ◼   ► it was really not so if you're currently here but a speed difference was really [TS]

01:34:06 ◼   ► really dramatic in the early years [TS]

01:34:08 ◼   ► yeah you didn't even need to have a terrific internet connection and you [TS]

01:34:11 ◼   ► could easily set your Wi-Fi connection and the ethernet would be the other way [TS]

01:34:15 ◼   ► around like you couldn't you couldn't buy a internet connection that would [TS]

01:34:19 ◼   ► saturate you know even under base-t yeah you know you have bluetooth will with [TS]

01:34:25 ◼   ► whatever argument we can have about the headphone jack now like it will be worse [TS]

01:34:30 ◼   ► not having it it will suck not having it sometimes for some people be more than [TS]

01:34:35 ◼   ► sometimes but in general like we are better off if we can keep it but in [TS]

01:34:41 ◼   ► general the market is moving towards bluetooth headphones and it is worse and [TS]

01:34:46 ◼   ► that's okay what about latency is one thing that bothers me and I'm one of [TS]

01:34:50 ◼   ► those weirdos I realized it's like I tell people this and they look at me and [TS]

01:34:52 ◼   ► they had think I'm joking but i generally run with the key clicks on [TS]

01:34:57 ◼   ► like yeah i'm typing on the iphone keyboard i like to hear the clicks but i [TS]

01:35:01 ◼   ► can't every night I just the cognitive trying to trying to make sense of the [TS]

01:35:07 ◼   ► lag when I have bluetooth headphones on if I can possible [TS]

01:35:10 ◼   ► also I mean it's hard it's hard to also ignore the fact that some pretty common [TS]

01:35:14 ◼   ► task for people do on phones include watching videos and playing games and [TS]

01:35:18 ◼   ► put the hoods really suck if there's noticeable audio latency yeah the video [TS]

01:35:22 ◼   ► problem they seem to have solved [TS]

01:35:24 ◼   ► they seem I don't notice any kind of lip sync problem you know that's really when [TS]

01:35:29 ◼   ► you can tell with audios off it looks like lips aren't moving in sync when [TS]

01:35:33 ◼   ► they've done something where I think that they they can you know let's sort [TS]

01:35:38 ◼   ► of like what federighi was saying with the speed of light calculations with the [TS]

01:35:43 ◼   ► onstage last week he said yeah where they can tell just how close the watches [TS]

01:35:49 ◼   ► to the macbook that's being unlocked with that new feature I they do [TS]

01:35:55 ◼   ► something where the video is lags by the exact same amount that the audio has to [TS]

01:35:59 ◼   ► like because of Bluetooth it's instinct but games are are like the keyboard like [TS]

01:36:03 ◼   ► you know all the beeps and Boop's and blocks or a half second behind you know [TS]

01:36:08 ◼   ► but ultimately i think what's going to happen is we're going to deal with that [TS]

01:36:12 ◼   ► because like I mean one thing is like I learned my tried to buy wireless digital [TS]

01:36:15 ◼   ► microphones for for our recording this year at WTC and that failed miserably on [TS]

01:36:20 ◼   ► if you're transmitting audio wirelessly if you're doing it in like a pure analog [TS]

01:36:26 ◼   ► sense like the way you know old cordless mics work and a lot of old cordless [TS]

01:36:29 ◼   ► phones worked you know analog suction a lot of ways you pick up static and [TS]

01:36:33 ◼   ► everything but analog is basically latency free if you're doing it [TS]

01:36:38 ◼   ► digitally with a bluetooth is doing having no transmitting audio digitally [TS]

01:36:41 ◼   ► wirelessly from some device in your hand to headphones on your head and then [TS]

01:36:46 ◼   ► having those headphones and convert the audio digitally into the analog sound [TS]

01:36:50 ◼   ► just because of the nature of digital transmission of the other like buffers [TS]

01:36:54 ◼   ► in different places and everything [TS]

01:36:55 ◼   ► there's always going to be some degree of latency and even the best latency [TS]

01:37:00 ◼   ► like even the lowest we've managed to get it as an industry is still [TS]

01:37:04 ◼   ► noticeable for things like lip-syncing lining up and and for you know there's [TS]

01:37:09 ◼   ► and that's like the best of most of what you're getting included in bluetooth [TS]

01:37:12 ◼   ► headphones is not top-notch equipment you know it's it's not like the best of [TS]

01:37:15 ◼   ► the best its consumer grade no cheapo stuff and so you're never going to get [TS]

01:37:21 ◼   ► digital transmission of sound from a phone to your head [TS]

01:37:24 ◼   ► phones that that is latency free it's we i don't think we know how to do that as [TS]

01:37:28 ◼   ► a science right so it i think this is gonna be one of those things where it's [TS]

01:37:33 ◼   ► just always going to be worse and we will just as a as a society we will just [TS]

01:37:38 ◼   ► move to well I guess we just won't play games with headphones on [TS]

01:37:42 ◼   ► well I guess we just won't will turn off our keyboards sounds or something right [TS]

01:37:45 ◼   ► because again like the advantages like once you get used to using bluetooth [TS]

01:37:49 ◼   ► headphones using a wire feels barbaric like it because I know the ice whenever [TS]

01:37:54 ◼   ► I travel on a plane like my bluetooth one stuck on a plane because there's [TS]

01:37:58 ◼   ► they're small they don't isolate so I usually bring a nicer pair of wire [TS]

01:38:03 ◼   ► headphones for the point for planes and it just feels so weird to have this like [TS]

01:38:06 ◼   ► wire going down my side into my pocket like once you're not used to that [TS]

01:38:10 ◼   ► getting it again is crazy [TS]

01:38:13 ◼   ► once I mean once I got used to having the the like track forward trackback [TS]

01:38:17 ◼   ► volume controls on the earcup as buttons on my bluetooth pair rather than having [TS]

01:38:23 ◼   ► the clicker they have all right click twice for 43 times for back you know and [TS]

01:38:26 ◼   ► try to like once again once you get used to the convenience of it really is so [TS]

01:38:31 ◼   ► much better that you tolerate all the crap about bluetooth [TS]

01:38:34 ◼   ► yeah I i got them for running for listening to podcasts and then when you [TS]

01:38:39 ◼   ► really just listening party yes while I run and the that the tethered is being [TS]

01:38:45 ◼   ► tethered to the headphones always bothered me it did never once figured [TS]

01:38:49 ◼   ► out i tried all sorts of stuff holding the phone an armband putting it on [TS]

01:38:54 ◼   ► pocket i tried everything and no matter what that that the wire getting away [TS]

01:38:59 ◼   ► that's why i bought it but then I this is like the 10 9 months ago something [TS]

01:39:04 ◼   ► like that when I got these the beach once but the thing i noticed was over [TS]

01:39:07 ◼   ► the winter [TS]

01:39:08 ◼   ► how nice it was in East Coast winner when I could wear them all bundled up [TS]

01:39:12 ◼   ► with a coat and still have my phone in the pocket because with a winter coat on [TS]

01:39:17 ◼   ► and a hat the a fight that it did was just another type of mass having a [TS]

01:39:22 ◼   ► table-and-chair like snake it through different layers yeah exactly like sneak [TS]

01:39:25 ◼   ► it through the button you know it's almost like when you wire yourself up [TS]

01:39:28 ◼   ► with a lab Mike exactly [TS]

01:39:31 ◼   ► and then you know trying to get it out it's even worse [TS]

01:39:34 ◼   ► alright there's no one last topic on the headphone thing and the end headphone [TS]

01:39:37 ◼   ► port being gone [TS]

01:39:38 ◼   ► yeah that i have in my notes is the waterproofing angle [TS]

01:39:41 ◼   ► see that's that's kind of a bad one because like there are already phones [TS]

01:39:45 ◼   ► out there that other people make that have headphone ports and are waterproof [TS]

01:39:47 ◼   ► and that's it [TS]

01:39:51 ◼   ► I that's true i wonder i wonder if it would be purchased part of the story [TS]

01:39:59 ◼   ► though it you know and then there's an angle where maybe it's a little bit of [TS]

01:40:03 ◼   ► BS because hey well okay you're saying that the phone is water-resistant now [TS]

01:40:07 ◼   ► and one of the reasons you got rid of this ancient you know headphone port but [TS]

01:40:14 ◼   ► there's these other phones that are water-resistant and they have it though [TS]

01:40:17 ◼   ► did the other phones that have it did they make you plug it up with like a [TS]

01:40:20 ◼   ► little rubber cover or they just like nope you can just know i don't know i [TS]

01:40:25 ◼   ► think that the US soon ever seen an android phone [TS]

01:40:28 ◼   ► well there's a funny commercial it's it's so it's obnoxious but there's like [TS]

01:40:32 ◼   ► a funny commercial for series of commercials for samsung where there's a [TS]

01:40:36 ◼   ► guy who's i think i'm supposed to know who he is [TS]

01:40:38 ◼   ► I think he's like a rap star but I don't know who he is and he's he's got a new [TS]

01:40:42 ◼   ► samsung whatever top-of-the-line galaxy edge or whatever and he's just pouring [TS]

01:40:47 ◼   ► champagne on it and he comes into a convenience store and he asked the guy [TS]

01:40:51 ◼   ► if he's pouring champagne on his house phone while he comes into the store and [TS]

01:40:55 ◼   ► he says to get you nowhere champagne and the guys points back there and bottles [TS]

01:40:59 ◼   ► empty and he throws it away and he goes by a new bottle of champagne pop the [TS]

01:41:03 ◼   ► cork and just starts pouring pouring it on his phone again and that's the end of [TS]

01:41:07 ◼   ► the commercial i laughed because our company that it is but it is such an egg [TS]

01:41:12 ◼   ► obnoxious commercial ever forget that i can you even imagine of apple had a [TS]

01:41:18 ◼   ► commercial that was that just showed some somebody of you know wasting two [TS]

01:41:22 ◼   ► bottles of champagne to pour on their phone but i can only presume that the [TS]

01:41:26 ◼   ► samsung one must be waterproof with the headphone yeah i think it is yeah i'm [TS]

01:41:29 ◼   ► from overriding the details but I i knows these fun exist right so like is [TS]

01:41:33 ◼   ► that you know it [TS]

01:41:34 ◼   ► there are reasons that Apple could say on stage to do why they did this but [TS]

01:41:39 ◼   ► like if you look down the list of reasons why they might do this you know [TS]

01:41:42 ◼   ► the the better audio [TS]

01:41:44 ◼   ► a you know the thickness the waterproofing like all these are not [TS]

01:41:48 ◼   ► strong reasons because it either they are totally unnecessary or like there's [TS]

01:41:53 ◼   ► there's enough ways around that are enough astronaut that it's not really [TS]

01:41:56 ◼   ► that valid so I you know if you look at like there are some similar reasons why [TS]

01:42:01 ◼   ► Apple want to do this i mean they would stand to make more money they would save [TS]

01:42:04 ◼   ► a component costs they would save on warranty repair stuff when I have to [TS]

01:42:07 ◼   ► pull it out of people headphone jacks and fix the ones a jamup it was by the [TS]

01:42:11 ◼   ► way again is also a problem loading ports and so like you know that there [TS]

01:42:15 ◼   ► are lots of reasons why Apple want to do this i mean it would it would cause a [TS]

01:42:20 ◼   ► wave of headphone upgrades and apple sells a lot of their own headphones with [TS]

01:42:25 ◼   ► their name and beats his name on them [TS]

01:42:27 ◼   ► in addition many of those headphones upgrades would apply at the [TS]

01:42:31 ◼   ► point-of-sale when you buy your iphone hey why don't also treat yourself to it [TS]

01:42:35 ◼   ► to this 200r pair of beats because you're going to do half of this phone so [TS]

01:42:39 ◼   ► that would help their attachment sale rate with self new iPhones it's like [TS]

01:42:43 ◼   ► apple with Santa make quite a lot of additional money by doing this I hope [TS]

01:42:47 ◼   ► that's not the reason that probably isn't the reason but I bet that's a [TS]

01:42:51 ◼   ► reason [TS]

01:42:52 ◼   ► what if they do ship a pair of white in your just pods with the phone you just [TS]

01:43:00 ◼   ► get them with the phone wireless bluetooth things that come with the [TS]

01:43:04 ◼   ► phone but then they also have a whole lineup of new beat stuff ready to go [TS]

01:43:10 ◼   ► like the upsell is for guys its that's possible but i think it's very unlikely [TS]

01:43:14 ◼   ► i think it's way more like we said earlier that what you get in the box is [TS]

01:43:18 ◼   ► either nothing like maybe they may be able to decide you know what we don't [TS]

01:43:21 ◼   ► need to ship had one in the box anymore you can buy anything just what we're [TS]

01:43:24 ◼   ► doing you a favor offering the choice [TS]

01:43:26 ◼   ► alright so maybe that's the angle or more likely they ship wired lightning [TS]

01:43:30 ◼   ► headphones of the box and just just a wire lighting version of the ones they [TS]

01:43:33 ◼   ► ship now that that's way more likely i think and and you know and it's possible [TS]

01:43:38 ◼   ► that like the way the way that what's that Japanese rumor site like a Couture [TS]

01:43:45 ◼   ► so i don't know i don't have pronounced Japanese words it's it i will just [TS]

01:43:47 ◼   ► embarrass myself unfortunately but like they reported months ago we first talked [TS]

01:43:51 ◼   ► about this that the next iPhone would have like a special like some extra pins [TS]

01:43:55 ◼   ► on the line on lightning port and special circuitry inside there [TS]

01:43:58 ◼   ► she send analog audio out over the port to be able to power passive devices that [TS]

01:44:03 ◼   ► don't have a built-in deck a nap and that would be how the next chief apple [TS]

01:44:08 ◼   ► earbuds wouldn't would receive the audio lakes is so it's physically over the [TS]

01:44:11 ◼   ► Lightning port but they're receiving analog audio that seems very plausible [TS]

01:44:16 ◼   ► to me I said it even back then like that is that sounds extremely likely to be [TS]

01:44:19 ◼   ► how they solve this problem for their own earbuds and and if they wanted to [TS]

01:44:23 ◼   ► offer a dongle they could do one very cheaply and it could be a very simple [TS]

01:44:27 ◼   ► device if they have that kind of setup [TS]

01:44:29 ◼   ► yes that sounds possible and that's one of the reasons I've seen people toss out [TS]

01:44:33 ◼   ► a maybe they'll switch the iphone the USBC because i think part of the [TS]

01:44:36 ◼   ► official USBC sits back is analog audio pass through on one of the pins or [TS]

01:44:43 ◼   ► something like that I could be wrong but probably in lightning doesn't have that [TS]

01:44:47 ◼   ► but the difference is that Apple can change lightning whenever it wants to [TS]

01:44:51 ◼   ► exactly and physics and they can so they can so easily say like well you know we [TS]

01:44:55 ◼   ► didn't need this part of the Lightning port on any previous phone because they [TS]

01:44:59 ◼   ► all have headphone jacks that this one we've we've helped everyone out so i [TS]

01:45:02 ◼   ► think to me I think I guess my my final four now comment on on the headphone [TS]

01:45:06 ◼   ► jack thing is like is there any reason i can come up with [TS]

01:45:11 ◼   ► why this would be a positive thing for customers is obviously good for Apple [TS]

01:45:14 ◼   ► why is good for customers and I can come up with one reason and that would be if [TS]

01:45:20 ◼   ► they replaced the space used by the headphone jack with another speaker and [TS]

01:45:24 ◼   ► if they if by doing this they can dramatically improve the quality of the [TS]

01:45:28 ◼   ► built-in speaker output of the iphone because as I learn more about how people [TS]

01:45:35 ◼   ► use iphone if you look like so I i do my own analytics and overcast of like what [TS]

01:45:40 ◼   ► is the current output device type and the the Audio API is pretty coarse grain [TS]

01:45:45 ◼   ► on that but it can tell you whether its internal speaker or wire headphones or [TS]

01:45:49 ◼   ► bluetooth or airplay and that helps you figure out like UK you know well what [TS]

01:45:53 ◼   ► kind of features to work on next day so that's one of the reasons why did the [TS]

01:45:55 ◼   ► the speaker optimized voice boost in in a recent version because I learned that [TS]

01:46:00 ◼   ► tons of people use the iphone built-in speaker and I always have but I thought [TS]

01:46:05 ◼   ► I was just like you know a weird freak work at home I didn't know anyone else [TS]

01:46:09 ◼   ► did but it turns out tons of people you [TS]

01:46:12 ◼   ► the iphone speaker all the time even though its large your battery doesn't [TS]

01:46:15 ◼   ► matter [TS]

01:46:16 ◼   ► everyone does it anyway and a lot of people do like in cars to play music [TS]

01:46:20 ◼   ► from their phone in the car that they don't have a better connection to a lot [TS]

01:46:22 ◼   ► of people do it around the house [TS]

01:46:24 ◼   ► I mean it's just it's so common so that's one of the reasons why I ended up [TS]

01:46:29 ◼   ► buying the new baby pro the new 9.7 inch iPad because it sounds so sad [TS]

01:46:34 ◼   ► oh my god it's night and day I mean it's unbelievable and like I use it as a [TS]

01:46:38 ◼   ► kitchen speaker most of the time you know plus a couch ipad and oh my god [TS]

01:46:41 ◼   ► it's massively different so what if they were able to do a large improvement to [TS]

01:46:47 ◼   ► the internal speaker of the iphone by replacing the headphone jack with a [TS]

01:46:50 ◼   ► second speaker now like I like your thinking that sounds that sounds [TS]

01:46:54 ◼   ► compelling to me the only my only no hesitation on that is that the reason [TS]

01:46:59 ◼   ► they will do with the ipad is you know when you look at like how you're [TS]

01:47:02 ◼   ► allocating space inside of a computing device these days these mobile modern [TS]

01:47:07 ◼   ► ultra-thin awesome devices you like to think oh well you know figure out what [TS]

01:47:12 ◼   ► component fill the space with battery [TS]

01:47:14 ◼   ► the problem is batteries are really heavy so my theory is that you know we [TS]

01:47:20 ◼   ► you know we we talk about Apple pushing everything to be super thin everything [TS]

01:47:23 ◼   ► and in some ways that goes too far like the map one keyboard but i think what [TS]

01:47:28 ◼   ► they really are doing is they're trying to target weight goal and the weight [TS]

01:47:31 ◼   ► goal is limited by how much how much battery you're willing to carry how much [TS]

01:47:36 ◼   ► like how much battery willing to devote wait to and then you can just kind of [TS]

01:47:40 ◼   ► shrink the enclosure around that and I what's the smallest enclosure we can [TS]

01:47:44 ◼   ► make that fit only this amount of battery and nothing else [TS]

01:47:47 ◼   ► you know and with the ipad they've they've kind of reached this point where [TS]

01:47:52 ◼   ► will the enclosure is thin flat thing and they basically can't make it a lot [TS]

01:47:57 ◼   ► thinner and keeping the same a battery and still have it be a flat back like [TS]

01:48:03 ◼   ► they have to like kind of make it like a bulge with a battery sticks out kinda [TS]

01:48:05 ◼   ► like the battery casing for the phone or you know something like that that would [TS]

01:48:08 ◼   ► look dumb so that basically with the ipad they because of this like battery [TS]

01:48:12 ◼   ► wait trade-off been having a lot of extra space in the case so they spend [TS]

01:48:17 ◼   ► that extra space on big speaker cavities to like to like tunnel the sound and [TS]

01:48:22 ◼   ► make it sound better and everything [TS]

01:48:24 ◼   ► on the phone they don't have that kind of volume to spare so they might get [TS]

01:48:29 ◼   ► some of it with the headphone jack removal and that might be enough to just [TS]

01:48:33 ◼   ► basically like double speaker we have now which would help that would be nice [TS]

01:48:36 ◼   ► but in order to make a really big improvement [TS]

01:48:39 ◼   ► I feel like they would have to do like a like one of those four speakers that [TS]

01:48:42 ◼   ► they have an iPad or like have any phones on that probably some android [TS]

01:48:45 ◼   ► phones on that like to have like a speaker on every corner basically [TS]

01:48:48 ◼   ► instead haha don't i don't think they would have to do that because I think [TS]

01:48:51 ◼   ► everybody holds the phone [TS]

01:48:53 ◼   ► although I guess when you watch the video it's always it is a little weird [TS]

01:48:56 ◼   ► that that's sounds only coming out yes I mean I don't think if they did that it [TS]

01:48:59 ◼   ► would be great but I just don't have enough space I think I don't be havin a [TS]

01:49:03 ◼   ► free volume inside the phone to do that and it also raises the question of the [TS]

01:49:08 ◼   ► the idea of the notion of hey let's make the speaker's bottom let's use the space [TS]

01:49:12 ◼   ► on the bottom for the speakers and do it on both sides you have stereo well then [TS]

01:49:16 ◼   ► why'd why not put this headphone back at the top where it used to be four years [TS]

01:49:19 ◼   ► and four hit yes I mean I don't think I get the Mighty Mite most plausible most [TS]