The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► every mac user is the smugness bastard in the world viruses never affect us [TS]

00:00:05 ◼   ► were immune to whatever and the reality of course is some people feel that way [TS]

00:00:08 ◼   ► most people who looked at the situation all know that we're not immune we're [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► just really lucky it's the targets been small apple does a good job upgrading in [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► pushing people to upgrade the support systems back many years the target is so [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► small this usually not worthwhile for malware makers to target us so that's [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► been our immunity is because we're in significant as a target not necessarily [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► an absolute numbers this new thing is this group at cisco tell us callous they [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► are one of many no security firms it's constantly researching for weaknesses [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► usually to help clients there they are trying to make sure their clients are [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► protected they find something dispela who add some communication with tyler [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► bowen found five previously undiscovered fairly severe flaws in the way that [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► image format files get parsed and the trouble was like three or four them were [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► reasonably severe but you kind of open a file and whatever but there's one [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► related to tiff John you've been using tip for your whole life right since your [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► brother that's right [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► ancient format so there's a part of the something in the parser it if you use a [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► tiled tiff file and its format in this very specific malicious fashion the iOS [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► and ostensibly OS 10 and probably I think the other two S's are also patch [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► TV OS and watching us if it's rendered it will actually think in that case it's [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► a memory as a buffer overflow usual typical old thing and it can allow the [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► potential for malicious code executes and you know take control machine and do [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► whatever and just by displaying image [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► yeah here's the reason it's considered particularly insidious you could load it [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► with a web page in safari you could have MS just open and somebody could text you [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► know send you a text message with the tip in it is a few other vectors merely [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► by rendering the preview it would have to parse the file enough that this [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► condition could be exploited that sounds pretty horrific right that's and that's [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► why it was considered it's considered very severe and some discussion about [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► how severe [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► and apples patched they use responsible disclosure it's not a zero-day there are [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► experts in the wild and if you update to all the all the current os's if you just [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► update the latest micro release you are protected against that particular tiff [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► exploit as well as the other four image format related exploits I have so many [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► follow . all right by the way BMP format BMP is actually also affected which is [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► kind of hilarious like Tiffany happy nobody's looking at them and I think [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► they're just old implementations let me see if I can keep my head [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► one of them is yes I used to use ad as you know and i know you have the ink [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► stained hands as well if I came from a world of print design and in the world [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► of print design in the nineties tiff was the de facto format from at least four [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► lineart yeah for any kind of bitmap everything went from through photoshop [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► into tiff before it went into production but it's sort of a notorious for file [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► format because I seem to recall vaguely that over the years they've been an [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► awful awful lot of security issues like this that have to do with tiff person [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► that is my rolodex as well I didn't go back and look it up but I i think it's [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► that old code thing like people wrote to parsers in 1980-something early 1990s [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► early nineteen eighties maybe probably late nineties and the parsers the basic [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► code is probably mostly unchanged a lot of ways for 30 years and it's probably a [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► very difficult formats probably have ported formats back that's my guess that [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► therefore it makes it hard to write the easy to write a not easy to write hard [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► to write a parser and easy to make mistakes with memory management in the [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► handling of the parser so when i get there is another point because it's such [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► a weird old format and it's that was never really part of the web in in [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► anyway I'm very surprised that iOS and watch us even have to park encode have [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► this is part of the unlike the quick look thing they like everything in all [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► the different os's support quick look for you know every major filetype [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► include some weird image formats and [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► the things that you know might never be previewing but you can preview of raw [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► images in some cases PNG's down a DNG files for the digital formats and all [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► these things [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► PNG by the White Way when that specification portable network graphics [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► that's kind of tips replacement because it has all the different kinds of things [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► did lossless and lossy and different alphabet whatever in the specifications [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► I met one of the people who wrote the spec years ago [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► nineteen nineties it says ping is pronounced ping in the specs there's no [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► question [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► mhm how else could you pronounce it PNG i guess i don't know you're the only [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► other way [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► yeah the only other way i could think you could pronounce it would be $TIME [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► p.m. or just saying the initials PNG i pronounce a pan i don't know it's just [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► you know some wood right away [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► ping is in just pinning it pain is an odd historical success because a lot of [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► times when when people get together in the open and say you know it's there's [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► even like an xkcd comic about it where it's like way too many specs and they'll [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► stick you know what the solution is a nose back at you just add to the pile [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► but usually even if it's a noble goal [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► whereas ping had the noble goal of saying we've got a couple of bitmap [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► image files formats that are out there being used and they are all terrible for [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► certain for one reason or another web we had gif files and don't even tell me [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► that you're just person haha my car you are you just person I'm choosy [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► programmers choose Jeff that's if it's a graphic image change interchange format [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► anyway it's a GIF file terrible just a I mean I read this format i mean we have [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► 256 colors at a time [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► i mean it's it's goofy yours it was great it was going to tell you serve its [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► June it was created for computer because it was a copy serve user were you I can [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► remember when you come down i was never unconscious sir [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► ok now i cant for a long time I can remember my 5 comma 4 digit address [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► because with seven have totally lost that's where the promised Asia cannot [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► remember by 1979 [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► copies of like you said but I'm copy sir it was great with style up we had like [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► 10 12 hundred bog modems or 12 her bps modem something like that it was a great [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► compact format when you had it was rendered you know rendered in a way that [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► made sense a client at a time and/or interlacing was not all your kingship [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► most computer you had most computers only had 16 color displays so did ya it [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► was her for the day and it's astonishing that it still is great but ya ping and [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► remember the most boring thing in the world [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► this lzw algorithm was not handed and units just try to enforce it and pink as [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► an outcome I efforts to patent patent expired in $YEAR had to look it up 2003 [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► because I'm going off but that was part of the issues like tiff used lzw which [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► meant to be licensed shift was being attacked or potentially unisys wanted to [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► license it i believe lcw may have been one of the early attempts to one of the [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► issues like businessmen not business method patents but it was a software is [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► patent algorithm patents there are some issues there anyway [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► yeah and if your matter that historically ever getting sidetracked [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► here but it's all good stuff that know that his it was it was a big story [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► locally because unisys is a philadelphia-area company stay where I [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► don't know if they still are so it was a big story locally but the gist of it is [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► that they own the patents behind her or patents that were part of fundamental [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► part of the jif gif format Patrick ice something I and they never enforced it [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► and it you know people there were the gift is being displayed and parsed and [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► created you know and every image editing tool and it was all over the place and [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► then netscape added you know put support in to render them in you know mosaic or [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► whatever that you know whatever the first one of their browsers that had [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► images which was a big deal it was actually a big deal when they added [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► image tags to it to the web browser [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► nah I and they waited until like all of a sudden like when the internet exploded [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► and everybody was buying [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► no like Adam banks internet book and everybody is like I'm gonna get on the [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► internet bill gates is writing a memo that we're going to you know turn the [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► whole you know Microsoft around at the internet internet internet and then all [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► of a sudden somebody at unit systems like a we own a patent for this and the [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► wet the the open community responded so we've got to create a new format and [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► they did it they did it quickly they got support into all the tools quickly and [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► yeah king took over the world as it was supposed to very quickly and that almost [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► never happens [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► it's where ping is such a great format a lot of ways I mean I think it's funny [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► that it didn't actually ultimately replace everything except i'll accept [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► jpg but it's just it's great this all the different kinds you know two modes [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► you can do 24-bit with alpha transparency and it's just it's not [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► quite as compact i think is just for the same thing but uh yeah patents patents [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► uh actually almost came up remember with them the the committee that runs the was [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► H dot 264 whatever the underlying patterns are there there's a patent pool [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► but i think there was one point there was a question about whether if you used [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► if you displayed H dot 264 video on your site without going through a third party [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► package like adobe flash for instance which wrapped it that you might actually [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► go separate licensing fees and using flash one of the reasons that flash was [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► successful is because adobe handle the licensing for video pads or at least [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► they said they did I think that fact was overlooked because the you know the [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► flashes are terrible but it meant there was no if you are you know CBS or [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► something if you put in flash your lawyers must have assured you [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► it's cool we only fees if you use html5 as if they existed to show you how to [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► directly stream that kind of format i think there might have been a patent [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► issue that's been resolved since the patent holders changed it so they [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► wouldn't go poop in the pool but not remember that you know it's it's always [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► a good sign when the lawyers are making engineering decisions for you [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► yeah it's great your web technologies it's great i let it know what could go [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► wrong [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► all right back to the security issues so [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► so all of Apple's operating systems were vulnerable to this that so is that all [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► the current ones and also to previous version of OS 10 were tested [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► it's possible that older versions are also vulnerable and they just didn't [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► test him i don't have clarity on that because the particular library may go [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► back a bazillion you know years could be back to 10 . six or ten dunno falling [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► out but there are no actual exploits in the wild right or not least none that [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► are known number known as possible so i talked to the folks at that this car [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► division directly because i could not find a small discovered so you know how [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► this works [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► something happens way to apple and the new story is Apple computers person to [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► flame that's like the next day like was one computer lab it was very controlled [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► circumstance they had no Apple computers person if I'm so the apple releases [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► these updates and then the engineer at cisco alright sweet alice is the [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► division he writes up AI the guys in charge this team would is credited with [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► the discovery by apple so it meant he is responsible disclosure reported months [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► ago Apple patches all over the school he breaks up a very detailed blog post that [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► explains the severity and it has some details about exactly what gets dumped [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► you put some you know [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► core dump information in your traces and things and people like you know the [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► register and Forbes whatever right these it stage fright for Apple's I know which [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► is android still is wrestling with stage fright which was an mms deliverable [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► among other factors of a way to you send a deliciously formatted message for [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► android 2.2 and every subsequent system and the problem with upgrading older [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► Android systems and on and on right so stage fright remains it's possible [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► there's a couple hundred million Android devices that remains susceptible to the [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► stage fright a big deal and there were viruses that were discovered in the wild [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► within I think week so the first stage right right release and then months [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► later some more for under devices that couldn't be patched this touches on one [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► of my [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► a very most precious pet themes in and what I write about like in media [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► criticism which is movable false equivalence yeah and and it's a huge [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► issue in politics and it's definitely an issue in the tech world to and it's this [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► idea that to be fair or or Senate more cynically to to sensationalize the story [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► because I think everybody knows that putting apple into headlines get more [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► clicks it so Android had stage fright our has stage fright you know it has [TS]

00:13:37 ◼   ► this issue that is actually being exploited in the world and there are [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► lots not most you know I'm not nobody's saying that every android phone out [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► there is hacked or even most of them are but there are many people with android [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► devices that have malware and perhaps even unbeknownst to the user because of [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► this exploit then Apple has this suit you know Cisco discovers this you know [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► security problem in Apple's operating systems and it's presented as though [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► it's you know like you just said they are actually calling it apple's version [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► of stage fright [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► even though there aren't any no next . right the wrap that writes great [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► narrative and there are similarities except sandboxing and code signing and [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► so forth there's a lot of spaces that are different in terms of Android deals [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► with incoming everything or malicious software that's trying to execute on a [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► system this other protections even if you managed to deliver a payload you [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► made us crash process right so that you know I talked to the engineer i went [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► back and forth through email had to go through the PR folks and you know it's [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► like is there a proof of concept because with stage fright the researchers we did [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► that deliver an effective price of proof of concept showing not just they could [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► crash a process or overwrite a buffer but they can actually commit acts and [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► gain root if i recall some Android systems you get root and some behalf you [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► could take control of the microphone and things like that so there are ways to [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► get access to system resources even if you couldn't potentially gain root and [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► the talus researcher said you know in fact we have a no provable exploit that [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► allows us to do nasty stuff [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► with safari know is 10 and the reporting had been about ms but they're here they [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► have no expert for that they think there are some major hurdles in the way that [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► might be able to overcome they weren't focusing on that because the news is [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► gonna patch they focused on something where they had a path already do it they [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► suspect the Safari + OS 10 pathway would also let them exploit iOS and safari [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► mobile safari they haven't tested it but everything seems the same they think [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► there may be a few more bars in the way there to that can be overcome this is [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► all with the unpatched version so you know the truth is this is that is going [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► back to the beginning is it's a severe bug or a few years ago Apple had some [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► Wi-Fi bugs where you could drive by and do terrible things to someone's Wi-Fi [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► network and gain access and you know do all kinds of stuff to an airport base [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► station or Mac I'm sorry Macintosh's if you could ask a naxx you know just put [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► physical proximity and it's tara tests especially terrifying because you don't [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► actually have to be in their house you just have to be within range of their [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► Wi-Fi which could be you know in a car in front of the house [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► yes but high gain antenna at the window and you can do it and those they were [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► patched and people have the same argument then this happened since I [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► think a lot of times is how severe is if the threat is over it's like well this [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► is very severe we don't know the it's it's severe as exploit you know these [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► things really are doing something really terribly wrong they shouldn't do and [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► shouldn't be in the code that's true and conceivably it's a pathway the next [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► steps are in the lab or no [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► now where could be developed that would then take advantage of it we could find [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► out how severe in practice it is in theory it's very severe but because of [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► responsible disclosure and apple being able to patch it in a timely manner [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► there's no evidence anything is in the wild that said this is the kind of thing [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► when the was it a blanket on the group in Italy that had all its files have [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► been expecting a hacking team hack something like that yeah those guys and [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► it went through some other outfits that leaked information these you know [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► there's all these companies its individual researchers and companies [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► that exist to find 0 days and sell them to governments right and governments are [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► also working on similar things [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► it's possible things like this are already completely known even to [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► multiple parties and they're being deployed against some Iranian official [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► or American official or chinese official or a company for some [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► you know for a industrial espionage it's being specifically deployed in a very [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► quiet way in which allows them to exfiltrate information or or you know to [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► tap communications but the idea it's not if that's the case that has been found [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► you maybe we'll now the biggest known virus signatures will get updated people [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► like it so it's not in the wild [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► yeah there's the the most obvious source of malware the one that we see and hear [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► about most often is the one that sort of stuff that sort of out in the open where [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► it's it's just almost like you almost want to say like more like common [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► criminals who either find exploits like this that you can go through you know a [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► webpage or certainly you know email click link you know click this link in [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► an email and if you're using a certain type of computer that has known exploit [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► just by clicking the link you know your your you've got malware on your computer [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► and what does the malware do a lot of times it's setups like a botnet or [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► something like that and it's it's like a shotgun approach to the crime where [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► they're trying to just get hundreds and thousands of random people they don't [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► even care who you are to run this and you know it's still your bitcoins or [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► whatever they want to do that's the you know the stuff that we see the part that [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► you know it the paranoid part of my mind is the well what about the Chinese [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► government the Chinese government would be you know who are they employing [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► people to find exploits like this [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► I of course they're right i mean who does anybody believe they're not [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► does anybody think the NSA doesn't have a really really smart people doing this [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► exactly the same thing you know and then there's the company's not just [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► government but companies like the hacking team that you mentioned that [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► sell their services [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► you know two governments and stuff like that but you know find these 0 days and [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► then hold you know instead of letting them loose they they're like a precious [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► commodity i mean i think last year somebody was actually like in the public [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► was saying you know what I we're going to pay a million dollars if you can find [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► and exploit for iOS 9 or so [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► yeah yeah I mean you know a legitimate I mean sort of legitimate I mean it's sort [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► of it [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► scummy underside of the world but you know at a serious offer legitimate offer [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► four million dollars if you could deliver them and exploit that would let [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► them do I was Lindsay just that jailbreaking often false that registers [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► companies and make a lot of money off third-party app stores for jailbroken [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► iphones I think and so there's money to be made if you get the the exploit first [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► the jailbreak pathways first some of them self jailbreaking is funny [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► jailbreaking went for a very interesting enterprise in the early days something [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► that is now all meshed in viruses and criminal enterprise and so for him [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► either still I'm sure legit people out there doing jailbreaking but everything [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► I read about it makes it sound like you don't know when you download the [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► jailbreak tools I what they're going to do i was talking to a friend of the show [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► Craig Hockenberry at yes WWDC and we were laughing thinking like reminiscing [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► to 10 years ago when the iphone was knew about how we all jailbroken phones like [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► yeah we all jailbroke our phones at the moment for the the first seat for [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► conference because it did somebody had created like a the lights-out game there [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► and it was really nice game i guess just like there was no it was no there was no [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► xcode for iOS yet I mean do some really smart example [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► yeah and there were no public no public tools at all to create iOS software and [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► somehow my god and and Craig eventually you know why during the jailbreak Eric [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► got a terrific working so I kind of course so of course i jailbroke my [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► phones and then I had a iphone with terrific on it and this is before you [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► could you know have apps I mean of course i jailbroke but it was you know [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► it just seemed it was a lot easier to innocent days better when it was just us [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► kids playing around with the phone sidebar counselor eff has just filed a [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► lawsuit about section 1201 of the dmca which are sure you're aware of i saw the [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► announcement yeah it's this video dmca Digital Millennium Copyright Act which i [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► think is a largely on [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► constitutional piece of legislation has never been fully tested at the Supreme [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► Court ever got his hands on it [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► I gotta say there's so many things in there that that i give $MONEY for the [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► privilege commercial speech at the in the face of free speech and whenever [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► I've seen anything like it has been decided by high court's you know either [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► appeals or up the Supreme Court it's usually even if I don't agree with the [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► decision entirely usually opens up the way for more speech be more encoded [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► speech sort of now be encoded at a certain level of going to the court [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► systems even if it's not fully understood so one provision of the dmca [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► is this reverse engineering thing related to digital rights management if [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► you put drm on something as a manufacturer it's illegal and you can be [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► sent to jail for years for 4 i'm sorry for years not four years i forgot see if [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► it's like five years like if you reverse engineering even for yourself like in [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► the privacy of your own home FBI breaks and you've been breaking drm and not [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► distributing it you go to jail and there's a provision called section 1201 [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► which is the most hilarious thing in the world every three years more or less the [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► Library of Congress held hearings not been personally the last you know we [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► just got a new one in this awesome the Senate actually approved the [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► confirmation the Library of Congress understands technology has run a library [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► system she's the voice of the future this is gonna be great the guy has been [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► charged for decades has been kind of a know-nothing light just terrible in [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► terms of Technology I great terms of books anyway so the section 1201 [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► hearings it's a circus you have the process described in the law is terrible [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► the library of congress created a process that basically people who object [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► to limitations and want to get them removed temporarily only for a [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► three-year period have to essentially file something like a legal brief [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► although can be in more plain language explaining why there is a legitimate [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► public interest to be served in providing exemption and then the library [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► and cost of the circus they have hearings and people pray through and [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► they testify and their last time I think there are 47 different sub group of [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► items being presented and it's just and it's you know farming it's companies [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► like john deere who have drm on their tractors automakers [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► you game makers the printer companies as well as the software and you know like [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► iphone locking the rest of it and then there's people who you know file these [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► objections and there's back and forth and then the library of congress issues [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► a set of rules about what's going to be exempted if anything in the next year . [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► a ridiculous process so the eff is suing basically on the unconstitutionality of [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► the of this provision and if it were struck down or even minimize it was [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► dramatically enhance the ability of people to do self-repair which is you [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► know what Halloween's that I fix it [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► he's been a huge proponent deeply active in this process and you can read a lot [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► of stuff about right to repair that relates a lot to do around these days I [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► i did specific provision in the d digital dmca 90cm he do that digital [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► because it was Millennium Copyright with Sonny care of Sonny Bono was involved in [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► that one but maybe my Sonny Bono law also that's different I it specifically [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► it more or less outlaws backwards reverse-engineering how drm works and [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► the reverse engineering is it you know here you've got this thing you own it [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► you are you allowed to try to figure out how it works and and that's you know [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► that's I think that's been considered part of you know I guess free speech but [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► certainly seems like something that you know I don't know the engineering the [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► objects to we've got this magic thing called you no copyright for our movies [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► and music and it gets a special exemption for this that nothing else has [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► yeah and you know i just learned something in it and that's terrible [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► because it keeps innovation you how did everything interesting happen that's [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► going on you know some people . two giant corporate research labs so many [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► interesting things we're doing a technology came from people tinkering [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► that little stuff that they took apart right i saw Kate McKinnon who I love [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► we're going to talk about Ghostbusters later right we'll talk because i have [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► not seen the movie what movie will talk about it earlier [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► okay yeah i am one of my one of the few people still watches SNL i watch it and [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► learn and I wife we fast we tape it we watch it like a few days later we [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► fast-forward through the bad stuff there are a bunch of [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► the great performers a lot of people our age have given up an SNL longer okay I'm [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► not we're we're big SNL fans here oh good yeah I think it's hit or miss as [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► you know sometimes you're watching entire upstairs like where I don't even [TS]

00:26:28 ◼   ► know what happened [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► another time you're crying for its always been like that [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► it's always better totally right i have this i have the same memory of no wasn't [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► always thought was so Kate McKennon you love her there because you watch it [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► she's an incredible mimic and I think she's great and ghostbusters [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► she is such a senior interviewed I just think she is so great and worth [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► beginning of her breakout part of her career like Kristen Wiig already had ran [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► this is a so kate mccann and I see this interview she's on the red carpet for [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► Ghostbusters in this tiny little girl must be like eight or nine is doing [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► interviews and chic ask a mechanic question Katie can look so touched in [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► lobby and the books that are very seriously and give to this answer in the [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► girls said what it was like to work on all this cool technology in the movie [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► Kate McKinnon said when I was a kid I used to love to take things apart radio [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► things that look at the circuit boards or whatever in this whole movie walk-in [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► everything is circuit boards and it's just like it was a dream was like my [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► childhood again something like that and i'm thinking that is the kind of thing [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► that kids kids today they don't know they're not encouraged to take things [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► apart they could actually violating the law if they were to know the software [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► side to circumvent things literally this kids could be violating federal law for [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► doing stuff that you are I did yeah [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► and although millions and millions of other children is certainly the case [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► that the overwhelming majority of all people have almost no curiosity about [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► how things work which is fine with right but for the minority of people who are [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► curious about how things work those also tend to be the sort of people who create [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► new things you know and I mean you could I think you could find that with [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► creative people in like you said entertainers even entertainers that it's [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► just like a mindset of i would like to take that apart i said is very [TS]

00:28:10 ◼   ► refinishing tables to she's got a crafty aspect or she does [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► um so my take on it is that I i think it's it is object philosophically to the [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► idea that you should outlaw being able to take things apart and figure out how [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► they work but on the flip side i also think that the people who make things [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► have every right to make him [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► as difficult to take apart or is you know you know like in the case with [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► apple and cellphone encryption that if Apple can figure out a way to [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► mathematically make the contents of a phone effectively unbreakable encryption [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► wise they have the right to do that and the NSA has a right to try to find the [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► holes in their logic and yeah I don't think manufacturers should be obliged to [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► make it easy i think that could be a marketing strategy and some do that i [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► was talking to a company that I can't reveal that said because of various [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► regulations they're not allowed to promote the fact that their product is [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► modifiable because it would actually put them in violation and put new regulatory [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► framework [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► however they can make their product by a modifiable including the firmware and [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► they just can't say anything about it so they're actually doing everything they [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► can [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► a great example is that I can talk about its chumby which is funny how long is [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► one of the plaintiffs in the eff suit is coming out a bunny lose the singapore in [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► singapore close to change and all the time he's a hands-on designer has been [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► designing an open laptop this is fascinating is not a little ideology in [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► it but it's also an incredible technical exercise he was one of the people behind [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► chumby which was originally this kind of soft alarm clock that you could make [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► apps for maybe two hours ago [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► yeah he went through a lot of revisions it's still out there company so they [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► left everything in such a state that when the product didn't succeed people [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► could keep it alive and then a new company came in to support it and that [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► companies now making new chunky stuff and running the servers because enough [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► was open and available i don't think the whole thing was open source of [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► forgetting all the details but they left everything open enough and then I think [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► when it was sitting down they opened it even further and like that was a [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► wonderful things as a company you could choose to do that but you can also [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► choose to be no rat bastards or pursue security let's say whatever you want and [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► not make it easy that's totally I mean I don't I don't think being there's a [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► difference there like should Apple allow third-party apps that are not Sultanate [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► storage it's a non appstore apps [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► that's a whole interesting debate and there's an argument to be made that they [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► should be required even if they have to put hurdles in and switches and you have [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► to agree you're gonna void your warranty or whatever that's separate from should [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► Apple [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► its firmware be you know hackable that's a very different situation they they [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► shouldn't pursue people who have broken into it that's where the drm issue lies [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► rather than they should make it easy which is a sort of philosophical [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► ideological situation [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► alright and that's where I disagree with the judge's name wines from the mac fix [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► it was so yeah I yeah I fix all rights it like the pentalobe screw thing was a [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► big that was an inflection point right is right [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► Apple switch two pentalobe screws it was hard to get such a screw driver than I [TS]

00:31:16 ◼   ► fix it made it which is great but Kyle maintain I think that final right yeah [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► he he he said apples doing this to make it hard to repair some people said maybe [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► it's because it's easier to do machine creation but that was your machine [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► assembly that's who knows but it definitely made it harder repair and [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► then you know kind of screwdrivers got made and now it's possible that i agree [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► that Apple probably does some things to make it harder for third-party Ferb [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► consumers and third parties to make changes in other things i think it's [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► they don't care they just engineer it because they know they can repair it so [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► they don't give a damn it's hard because they'll take care of it right i think [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► that there's that it's funny because that's a perfect example and I'd I try [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► to be like this as much as i can so i disagree with with kyle on it on his [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► take on this but I'm intrigued by his argument and ya know ya know I don't [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► think that I don't just say this guy's an idiot I i disagree with them i do [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► believe that he's wrong but i always do enjoy reading his pieces arguing about [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► who's pushing he pushes the he pushes the envelope in a way that's good for [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► everybody even if you disagree with them [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► there's nothing wrong with the idea that Apple could roll back to Phillips head [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► screws like that doesn't make things worse for anyone even if you disagree [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► with why they switch the pendulum I want to . since we're sidebar suicide bombing [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► cyber there's a great piece about warranties and motherboard last month [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► and if you saw this how Sony Microsoft and other gadget makers violate federal [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► warranty law and i'm going to send you a URL is a great piece [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► I never knew this most of all the things that's a break the seal and you violate [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► weren't here actually either illegal or unenforceable [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► I had no idea the widest already there 97 lock all the Magnusson moss Warranty [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► Act federal law says you can open your electronics without voiding the warranty [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► regardless of what the language of that warranty says people should read this [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► because i was at my mind blown every single hard drive ever purchased has a [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► sticker like that somewhere on it [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► mhm but i always thought that it was kind of reasonable for like a hard drive [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► because it especially in the spinning disk ear if you open up if you get to [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► the point where we open up and expose the disc and it and it picks up dust and [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► then doesn't work right well why shouldn't your want to do yeah it's not [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► that but it's the thing is the warranty isn't de facto violated by the by [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► breaking the seal and that the thing and or even repair that the the article [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► notes they got some great you know liability lawyers better lawyers talk [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► about is the manufacturer has to prove that you're whatever you did cause the [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► field haha gotcha that's a fact [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► so they can do that they can say there's just on the drive wasn't originally it [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► works when you got it so screw and I see that it was going back to Kyle whines I [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► i think his argument would be bolstered if he stopped attributing malice to [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► apple and simply stated why he thinks these would be better devices with [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► standard screws and I know one of his other Bugaboos is the use of glue [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► oh yeah you know and did you know make that just make the argument that this [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► would be a better device for everybody if you know they stopped using glue and [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► stuff like that and you instead of saying it that they're doing this to [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► make it hard to repair Apple does not care about the repair shops they don't [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► yeah they did give know shits it's not me yeah and yeah it's also like this is [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► a case I this is I mr. not a sidebar swear to god I'm like the biggest [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► parentheses nesters you know but while take Iran this great piece set i think [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► that 538 I think that's right about these great i love this writing and he [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► wrote this thing about how IMDb movies movie scores are are sunk by mail trolls [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► because a to the analysis and you can see that men more highly downvote orchid [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► poor ratings to movies that women like better than in women do not do the same [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► thing [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► mail films films that men like better so you can look at films that more men have [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► seen this gender split you know and so forth and that you can do that analysis [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► and figured out and the article is really interesting but the one thing I [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► disagree with them as he was attributing malice he said effectively that men are [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► trolling as opposed to internalizing their own toxic masculinity and voting [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► stuff down because they thought no one should see it sort of ghostbusters thing [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► again like well if you haven't seen the movie and you're voting 23 your kind of [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► the troll but some people may have been it may have seen it you don't know how [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► many haven't seen it how have and whatever I feel like the same thing with [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► a bit with people who attribute things to apple if you know if you could pull [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► it out and say I talk to are you know in a plunger goes public is i worked at [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► Apple for 20 years and the thing I did to screw repair for right then you can [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► see melis my job was to make it a difficult or impossible to do you [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► replace your screen with a third-party facility because people want is the [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► hundred-dollar replacement fee i was the extra glue engineer at apple continuing [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► glue engineer before this is good i think an online i want to go back to the [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► the security bug ya so all the way all the way back to this this responsible [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► for you which is called responsible it like i don't know i made with this face [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► like responsible disclosure . yeah alright wait for it so a in some aspect [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► though it's not responsible because the only things that are updated are the [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► very latest update to the OS I'm talking to you right now on through an imac that [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► has not been updated because i didn't feel like restarting my mac before we [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► started the shot right right my the mac i'm talking to you on right now is not [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► updated my iphone is I thoroughly doubt that my sons are wife's iphones are I'd [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► pretty sure my ipad is not because i haven't I know it might be cuz i'm [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► running iOS 10 beta so I don't know but I said I i have devices i'm technically [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► adept and I into the news and I have devices that are updated yet and let [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► alone [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► anybody who hasn't updated too [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► el capitan yet if you're running a love you know LOL what was the one before [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► assembly i don't have to disseminate to keep looking it up you know you're still [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► you're still vulnerable and I don't know if Apple you know nobody knows because [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► apple won't say but whether Apple's going to do a security update for those [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► things either so it's nonsense i often wonder about disclosing these things you [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► know whether it's it's good or bad [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► well there's that yeah there's a couple different aspects to it right if there's [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► a zero-day you know which just for the benefit of listen 20 days and exploit [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► that is known as then something is patch so the patch comes out and it's known [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► that it's in a mountain malware is being used right so has to be patched [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► immediately because you have to protect people are inactive danger so this is [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► not a zero-day there's no no no attacks in the wild haven't seen anything last [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► couple days suggested anyone had managed to explain this in any Broadway and we [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► know that because Mac users and iOS users if it didn't send out as general [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► malware would have been reporting I've been hijacked or whatever because now [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► we're distributors are not subtle typically be ransomed me a big thing [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► right now is ransomware as you know I've been running about that recently a [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► couple articles on it and anyway so we so this isn't a zero-day but this is the [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► tricky part like if you don't think that it's in the wild like you're working for [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► a security company there's no reports of this coming out that even analyzing you [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► found it printed proactively in advance or respectively and you know the patches [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► and made and distributed so anyone can get it has it that removes the financial [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► incentive for any criminal to criminal organization to try to find and exploit [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► because the window is closing so fast like you know twenty-five percent of its [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► closed the first two hours and if Apple pushes update so heavily makes it hard [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► to ignore them especially in iOS and other platforms that the odds of having [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► a target are very small so you spend weeks three months developing the [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► payload of the exploit technology to deliver the correct play load and by [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► then 93% of people of update and you have you know a couple hundred thousand [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► people you have to reach and even spam and phishing doesn't make it worthwhile [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► to send out the messages to reach a fraction of them so the economics of it [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► are bad [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► when it's 90 days with a zero-day you disclose because it's so dangerous and [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► want to run to patch right away and the economics their change instantly too but [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► there's exploits out there that will be trying to be put out as fast as they can [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► be four people patch [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► ah let me take a break here and thank our first sponsor i love this is a brand [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► new sponsor and it is a great app it's called boom it's a mac app from global [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► delight have you ever wished that the audio playing three Mac could be richer [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► crisper and just better if you like listening to music movies videos through [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► your Mac or any other audio then you may have searched for ways to boost the [TS]

00:40:08 ◼   ► volume on your Mac but haven't found anything yet well that's what boom does [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► it's an amazing audio enhancer for the Mac it's simple it's gorgeous as [TS]

00:40:15 ◼   ► great-looking you I these guys globalite have always always done really really [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► high-end you know classic in the Mac Developer attention to detail and and [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► all the icons look great and everything like that so it's just a volume booster [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► that's it just works on a system-wide level so you don't have to install it [TS]

00:40:37 ◼   ► like inside act apps not a plug-in or anything like that and anything you plan [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► your Mac suddenly sounds amplified it works with headphones works for speakers [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► and in the best part this [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► its a Mac world best of show winner this is an app that has been renowned it [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► really it you know it sounds almost like snake oil but it really does work it's [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► one the macworld best of show back when macworld was a show and here's the best [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► part anyway I keep talking circle here but the best part is right now for a [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► very limited . i don't quite know how limited the period is so if you hear it [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► you better go get it now it is thirty-three percent off in their store [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► it's just 999 usually 15 bucks you where you go here's their URL it's a bit ly [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► URL so go to be IT . ly italy / boom to Mac that's the digit 2 bit ly / boom to [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► mac and you'll get more info they have a seven day free trial can you believe [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► that [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► seven day free trial what it it's like in the world of the app store it's like [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► you forget about free trials well [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► what that's why the mac is awesome seven day free trial try it [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► listen to it see that you liked it and then you can get it for thirty-three [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► percent off thats boom to that's what the reason the two is anywhere else is [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► version 2 of the a boom to thirty-three percent off italy / boom to mak a great [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► app I'm we were talking before about the sort of miss can I don't know what you'd [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► call it but the idea that mac users are smug insufferably smug on security [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► issues so true and it that's another one that's sort of like a pet issue of mine [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► is is the incessant inevitable need to boil everything down to a binary it's [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► either this or that either the mac is completely invulnerable to stop malware [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► and security exploits or the mac is every bit as vulnerable and exploitable [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► is every other system that's out there I when the truth is in between it is [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► nuanced you know and it was a lot that I you still see it and part of it is that [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► iOS is so spectacularly popular and such a lucrative target but in the old days [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► pre iphone it was always almost always boil down to an argument that the mac [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► you know windows has all this malware problems all these issues and and all [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► this you know that the and I don't even think it was snake well i think it was a [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► reasonable thing that you know informed users would agree with was that it was [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► considered a just standard practice to install antivirus on your Windows PC [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► that if you didn't you were a fool and you're probably going to get exploited [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► oh yeah would you just all virtual windows machine on your mac and [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► parallels and then it launched it and we get infected before you can install the [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► antivirus software it's not up to me it's it's no exaggeration and then you [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► Mac users informed mac users like myself would say well i-i-i don't run [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► any antivirus on my mac and in fact i recommend I i don't recommend my family [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► members do and I don't think you should either and I don't think you need to and [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► then they would say what you're an idiot because the only reason the Mac doesn't [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► get exploited is that it's just it's every bit as vulnerable as Windows but [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► it's too small for the malware people to care about and it's like you can't [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► disprove that that's one of those it's like a I don't know what the rhetorical [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► for the description of that is but it's it's sort of like a straw man argument [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► you can't knock it down you can't just proved it [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► hypothetical like that yeah there's no way to prove it otherwise except if the [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► mac . as popular as windows and that's what happened that sort of happened with [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► iOS right iOS has you know hundreds of millions or i guess a billion active [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► devices there might be now that I think about it there might be more iOS devices [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► in use than windows devices i don't know that Michael but I think I think there's [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► more windows because windows things are never this thing right people running [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► windows 95 start someplace so they're not it's in the ballpark probably [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► running an air traffic controller something it is in the ballpark [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► yeah and it didn't happen [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► I mean now there is malware for mac there is malware that attacks iOS but [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► it's never been as rampant a problem as it has been on other platforms [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► yeah it's I i I've always said i should say always but I said increasingly it's [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► not goodbye for increasing like Apple was a weird target we have it-- were the [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► first viruses come to the computers the first widespread the worms and things [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► was through a max right we had that the one that you stuck a discounted rate the [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► floppy the other thing I just that in my notes here i do you remember what your [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► mat there wasn't going to be there was a time when I did run antivirus on my mac [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► and i would recommend everybody do it was called disinfectant and hear all of [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► that has no it was one guy it was like a guy up in Seattle right [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► oh sure so right because it he charged for know it's free but it wasn't great [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► was as good as the commercial solutions for a long time John Norse dead [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► no that's good memory i think that's right very nice guy if I recall to [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► really nice guy i mean like [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► it's just amazing that it was just it was just for utility united states like [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► a net you would North dead John overstepped just missing its so there's [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► this homepage on your stats homepage scary is I i will put this in the show [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► notes [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► John Nienstedt homepage it was amazing you would it was in it you ran it it [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► didn't slit seemingly didn't slow your Mac down at all had no adverse effects [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► and it was updated on a regular basis with all the new viruses that would [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► spread around and it would identify them and block them but yeah that was like an [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► insidious when I remember we drexel was absolutely hit by it was it was it was [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► it was so insidious it was a virus that would spread just by inserting a floppy [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► disk into an already infected Christian great piece of engineering for the day [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► yeah but yeah so here's my thing so Apple didn't necessarily their the Apple [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► was never necessarily had any innovation like address space layout randomization [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► ALS r which is a great technique use so that you can predictably as an hour [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► developer nowhere part of the system is going to be located in memory [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► necessarily and more ASL are you do across everything the harder it is to [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► target memory location it has something happened and so that you know that [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► windows i want to say Microsoft energies that years before and they needed to [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► before always 10 was much more mystery but the Apple wasn't necessary innovator [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► in that what they were an innovator in was accidental things that works right [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► so Apple going to free updates force operating system you know first super [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► cheap and then completely free and all the free incremental ones and the way in [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► which you can do incremental update OS 10 without typically destroying your [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► system i know there's some bad releases and I had problems over the years but [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► they create an environment which people were expected to run updates and [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► typically stay up-to-date you might have been no using 10.6 . not 10.7 for a [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► while but then you switch over and when you look at over the years as you looked [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► at the adoption curve it's ridiculous compared to any other operating system [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► as people move up so fast and software developers of course have the issue of [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► compatibility know that that's one thing so there are [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► that the long tail of older versions by number of people running a number of [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► computers rather of older versions always 10 is very small compared to most [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► other things you can android to android and there's this incredible distribution [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► because android devices when they were sold originally the first generations as [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► opposed to iOS it was very difficult or impossible to get beyond the version [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► even the subversion like to . to that you had installed that gives you a great [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► target because you know there's going to be a hundred million devices out there [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► running android 2.2 for as long as the devices work so you have that target to [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► attack forever Android as opposed to us 10 or iOS didn't have a good pathway [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► directly to users any windows has this of course is direct pathway and [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► eventually help to provide security updates so Android users are sort of [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► abandoned google has been working on this for years to create an effective [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► way of rapid turnaround for certain kinds of security issues switching to [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► apps is one way one of my colleagues over at green bar in the idg family [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► they're though I was telling the other day like Google having a messaging app [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► you know hangouts and messenger called mr. they can update the app if there's a [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► security problem the app the app can take care of it but they can update the [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► entire system because someone's running an outdated or run fashionable phone so [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► Apple I think the upgrade cycle can always reduces the target of potential [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► infections whether it's with iOS which is a monolithic you know ecosystem as [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► opposed to android or its with OS 10 where they push stuff out and I think it [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► had it seems like a pretty fast pretty fast way and get people up the next [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► version so there's never a lot of people that you can easily target and with [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► Windows you people running hundreds of millions people running pretty Windows [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► 10 versions you have hundreds of millions of android users may be several [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► hundred million running pre marshmallow 6 . x versions right so those targets [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► are so lovely that as a if your email or developer and your criminal and you're [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► trying to hit the biggest target why would you do it for iOS or OS 10 if it's [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► going to be hard or there aren't enough people it's it's again if you're doing [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► that shotgun approach of I want to see at least I want to do the amount of work [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► and get my [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► scummy little piece of malware on as many devices as possible i'm going to [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► send a billion phishing messages and i know that i'm going to catch of that [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► like a hundred million Android 2.2 users it's their owners is easy relatively [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► whereas if you want if you're in the business of targeting specific [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► individuals at the best of a government agency [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► you totally different yeah i mean look at the threat for the hacking team that [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► revealed how many different kinds of attacks that were against right Macs and [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► iOS so you know it's a different category is something to be concerned [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► about but it's also things like Apple didn't have a native mail program for [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► the longest time remember then they come out with me all the male's kind of [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► crappy but it also by time Apple came up with own mail program for OS 10 it was [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► already diversity so you couldn't as a malware author target a specific popular [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► male programs problems the mail programs were deeply integrated like they were [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► windows so you couldn't cause like JavaScript to run an attached message [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► without someone clicking on it in eudora or whatever right and then mail came out [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► apple already knew this was a problem to the engineer something that was less [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► embedded in more separate so you can still have stuff that would go wrong but [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► it was a little more limited set of activities and happened with outlook [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► integration and Microsoft's basically spent the last 20 years [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► pulling out the hooks that built deeply into its systems that allowed things [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► that happen when they should have been sandbox or so old that I specifically [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► you say that and it sounds it sounds so old [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► that's the first pic max ship without an email [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► Andy and I have 2w I knew that Apple didn't make one but I was like wait did [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► they may be ship like netscape's weirdo email or something i said no they didn't [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► ship any of them didn't even order the 1i was used or user I'm okay after I [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► mean outlook i think i use outlook for a while in the office suite [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► I don't know that was part of was that part of the deal two jobs and engage [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► agree as part of the Microsoft investment that Apple wasn't going to [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► release its own mail software now no okay because that's what I look [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► existence we played office or they can sell your door right there are a bunch [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► of other mail programs still there's still a remarkable number of email [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► programs available and new ones being developed [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► I don't I don't wanna I don't wanna [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► I don't want to resort to google here i want either me or you to remember it was [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► the one said Spencer's team created i went on to microsoft and created the [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► good version of outlook and wasn't note was a call and guy ever used guy [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► kawasaki was big male mate [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► no no it was you will love it by some type of pie was it a virus product at [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► one point even Clarence had an email product in it [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► I don't you know i'll tell you i use mail Smith today I i actually wrote you [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► still do i wrote a programmer article for macro recently called old software [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► that we all still use I got so many lovely comments from people shipping [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► with these i use quicken 2007by use mail Smith which is updated for compatibility [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► i use CSS editor for mac rabbit which doesn't develop any more for doing CSS [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► tweaking on live sites i have this whole set of old software that's that's still [TS]

00:53:41 ◼   ► either being tiny compatibility updates or manages to work under the current [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► environment and i'll cry when it stops and people chimed in with all this offer [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► these that's sometimes like 10 plus years old that they've just been 11 [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► later a leveller they upgraded it very nice the people involved into a to be [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► compatible with El Capitan but level later I don't think was really changed [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► for several years it's a vital piece of podcast no audio normalization [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► equalization software I week all the thought I have I did sheet google and i [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► want to check Spencer's linkedin page it was fog city software Fox yes and the [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► product was called emailer MN and it was purchased by apple in March 1996 and [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► became claris emailer so Apple owned it because apple owns or I guess Clarence [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► doesn't exist anymore and I guess it's filemaker it's like let's find out and [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► some it was funny and apple only the email client but didn't pre install it [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► on my god [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► I know is because and the whole point was that until the you know again I've [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► long said that to me there's really only two areas at Apple there is the original [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► the era up and then starting with the next reunification that's like modern [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► Apple modern Apple started with the next reunification mm and jobs coming back [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► and that's why there's so many things that were different but in the in the [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► original apple it was it was like explicit wasn't even implicit like I [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► think Apple was explicit about it at times that they didn't want to compete [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► with third-party right developers and so the mac you know it would have it had [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► like what was it called back then simple text but each text iconic over now i [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► think it's i remember simple text think that was later I think you're each text [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► was like the built-in readme reader but it's super minimal i meanwe less way [TS]

00:55:42 ◼   ► more minimal featured minimally featured even then txt edit today we're sorry we [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► pissed about TextEdit because text said it actually has its roots right in next [TS]

00:55:51 ◼   ► yeah i mean always you basically and text edit is a great piece of software [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► no one uses and i wrote a macro piece about how great there's some features in [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► it that are invaluable you can basically cannot easily get in any other unstable [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► people do use it right there are it's sort of like a secure cult of people who [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► love and and rightly so [TS]

00:56:09 ◼   ► textedit including people at Apple i remember i had a meeting at Apple admit [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► but over a decade ago when I was it joint it was nothing to do with daring [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► fireball was you know Apple wanted to meet with us and talk about Giants [TS]

00:56:21 ◼   ► technology and vehicle and I noticed that the it was the first time actually [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► I met Michael lop in person [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► oh yeah princeton repose he was there even is an apple software manager at the [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► time and so we didn't know each other we weren't friends yet but we were you know [TS]

00:56:36 ◼   ► online had a little bit of back-and-forth simply as you know he [TS]

00:56:40 ◼   ► knew daring fireball I new ransom proposed he comes into the meeting and [TS]

00:56:44 ◼   ► of course he's very you know such a minimalist he opens up his is that [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► it was you might even been a powerbook at the time but whatever we know macbook [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► powerbook of course there's nothing on screen it's just a beautiful desktop [TS]

00:56:56 ◼   ► picture a he launches text edit and he's got one window on screen and it's text [TS]

00:57:01 ◼   ► and that's the app he used to take notes for the meeting and I was kind of blown [TS]

00:57:05 ◼   ► away but also not surprised at all and he was like oh of course I because again [TS]

00:57:08 ◼   ► he said you know why use this app I use this app because it is super simple and [TS]

00:57:12 ◼   ► it has never once crossed me I've never lost a single letter of anything I've [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► ever typed in TextEdit that there's any way I don't I think this is the case in [TS]

00:57:22 ◼   ► Japan I don't know but in Japan it used to be the left on your business card [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► more important you were and at least in the eighties I'm missing a cartoon about [TS]

00:57:28 ◼   ► this and reading about this you know you do when you're handsome business card [TS]

00:57:31 ◼   ► Japan you hold it with two hands and you handed to them it's just you know it got [TS]

00:57:34 ◼   ► a little bit of a ceremony about used to have no idea what people do today [TS]

00:57:37 ◼   ► there's a comic strip at the time by all cartoonist it was about these two people [TS]

00:57:41 ◼   ► competing for a job in Japan and striving to be whatever and one of them [TS]

00:57:44 ◼   ► has a dreamy sigh chance I met God he handed me his business card it was [TS]

00:57:48 ◼   ► completely black [TS]

00:57:49 ◼   ► I don't think you know you're talking about Michael lottery so alpha had an [TS]

00:57:53 ◼   ► email product and they didn't even pre-install it I don't think maybe they [TS]

00:57:56 ◼   ► did at some point yes nothing bundled you know they kept their hands off in [TS]

00:58:01 ◼   ► Microsoft integration bundling tying monopoly issue tendencies always keeping [TS]

00:58:07 ◼   ► this market locked in for themselves whether it's business software [TS]

00:58:10 ◼   ► productivity issues email browser that was their security downfall and I think [TS]

00:58:15 ◼   ► they spent a lot of time backing away from that in ok oh so i just did this [TS]

00:58:19 ◼   ► story I don't know if this is the sidebar we're still talking viruses i [TS]

00:58:22 ◼   ► just did a piece that should be out by the time this airs for MIT technology [TS]

00:58:26 ◼   ► review about some new research it's not it's been public for months [TS]

00:58:29 ◼   ► a couple of research teams at different universities came up with strategies for [TS]

00:58:33 ◼   ► fighting ransomware on windows and it was very interesting and I talked to a [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► bunch of your doctor mcafee and and other folks and and the researchers and [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► the thing that's hilariously well how do you stop ransomware what's you know what [TS]

00:58:43 ◼   ► are you doing they're like well you keep your software update your install you [TS]

00:58:46 ◼   ► know you do i run the latest patches you don't run java or flash like wait what [TS]

00:58:50 ◼   ► about virus software like that's sort of the last stage like we had somewhere and [TS]

00:58:54 ◼   ► most now we're now just targets incredibly low hanging fruit of which [TS]

00:58:58 ◼   ► there still remains so much like so one of the people I spoke to said something [TS]

00:59:01 ◼   ► like fifty percent of machines you [TS]

00:59:03 ◼   ► just get into because they're just not it protected anyway forget antivirus [TS]

00:59:08 ◼   ► software what the ransomware what's interesting is the developers of these [TS]

00:59:13 ◼   ► these academics rather the two different groups took different approaches the [TS]

00:59:16 ◼   ► fact is ransomware it works on user space files so it's actually insidious [TS]

00:59:21 ◼   ► you don't have to gain deeper missions when I the payload is dropped and it [TS]

00:59:24 ◼   ► runs you know a lot of ransomware is like scripts like PHP or java script [TS]

00:59:28 ◼   ► right and you double-click of a Trojan horse that's delivered via email and it [TS]

00:59:33 ◼   ► just start encrypting files because it doesn't need extra permission right it [TS]

00:59:36 ◼   ► can it's their your files so they're only doing documents but there's a lot [TS]

00:59:39 ◼   ► of Telltale's entropy and all kinds of other stuff they can monitor so that the [TS]

00:59:43 ◼   ► approach that really cool but I was like oh that's one reason ransomware has a [TS]

00:59:46 ◼   ► money thing at the end which is very straightforward and there's like six [TS]

00:59:51 ◼   ► million unique variance or grin somewhere out there now because the [TS]

00:59:55 ◼   ► modifications of a bunch of like bass families of ransomware so many different [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► people are doing it [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► people are doing it [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► because the money is so easy but fundamentally it has that great [TS]

01:00:03 ◼   ► advantage is not trying to get into your Colonel do something it's not trying to [TS]

01:00:07 ◼   ► hijack your networking it's just trying to take your word documents to make them [TS]

01:00:11 ◼   ► unreadable right it's not really fighting the system it's actually going [TS]

01:00:14 ◼   ► with the flow of the system yeah [TS]

01:00:15 ◼   ► oh you're something to user double-click you could you have access to all of [TS]

01:00:18 ◼   ► these files [TS]

01:00:19 ◼   ► yeah your my documents but we got well and it's exactly the sort of thing is [TS]

01:00:23 ◼   ► exactly the sort of reason that Apple is you know sandboxed iOS from the start [TS]

01:00:28 ◼   ► and is so for all the technical problems it causes for honest apps why they're so [TS]

01:00:36 ◼   ► bent towards sandboxing on Mac as well yeah and I hear that there's a technique [TS]

01:00:43 ◼   ► I learned that I didn't know about there's a micro virtualization is coming [TS]

01:00:47 ◼   ► it's a step beyond sandboxing every app runs essentially its own tiny virtual [TS]

01:00:51 ◼   ► machine which sounds crazy but bromium BR omim is one of the companies in space [TS]

01:00:57 ◼   ► i think was it [TS]

01:00:59 ◼   ► f-secure be has a product and it's the new thing because a lot of business [TS]

01:01:03 ◼   ► users are basically only running a handful of apps so running them in the [TS]

01:01:07 ◼   ► in the virtual environments are transparent to you as a user but [TS]

01:01:10 ◼   ► essentially it's like super sandboxing right it's wild [TS]

01:01:14 ◼   ► I did you see the story I link to it i guess i'll put it in the show notes like [TS]

01:01:19 ◼   ► to it earlier this week or maybe last week where there was this variant of [TS]

01:01:25 ◼   ► ransomware that doesn't actually after you pay them it doesn't give you [TS]

01:01:31 ◼   ► oh yeah yeah so the wait for anybody who doesn't know the way ransomware working [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► machine gets it by ransomware that the ransomware malware starts running and it [TS]

01:01:39 ◼   ► starts encrypting your files and then all of a sudden you're going what you [TS]

01:01:43 ◼   ► notice it when you go to open one of your documents and it gives you a [TS]

01:01:47 ◼   ► dialogue and it says you've been you know you've been hit by ransomware all [TS]

01:01:52 ◼   ► of your files are encrypted and they really are encrypted and so like if [TS]

01:01:55 ◼   ► you'd like to try to open it and you know a text editor or something it's [TS]

01:01:59 ◼   ► just going to be you know garbled binary stuff because it's encrypted right in [TS]

01:02:03 ◼   ► the cantina sent via command control system that's the way it does get a [TS]

01:02:06 ◼   ► little network access so that he is not stored on the device you can just [TS]

01:02:10 ◼   ► extract the key cement yeah [TS]

01:02:11 ◼   ► there's so there's some clever you know use of encryption there and then if you [TS]

01:02:15 ◼   ► give them money by following steps x y&z who knows you know maybe they want [TS]

01:02:20 ◼   ► Bitcoin you have to go buy bitcoin and given the Bitcoin or you know or they [TS]

01:02:24 ◼   ► just want your credit card number or whatever [TS]

01:02:27 ◼   ► somehow you've got to get the money and then you give them money and then they [TS]

01:02:30 ◼   ► really do decrypt you know they give you the key and your get your files back and [TS]

01:02:34 ◼   ► therefore in case of high-profile cases there is I remember there was a hospital [TS]

01:02:38 ◼   ► i think in los angeles hospital that I had my ransomware and it went 17 [TS]

01:02:42 ◼   ► thousand dollars i think the unencrypted they had to build you know that you know [TS]

01:02:47 ◼   ► and and there's sort of a you know it's like an old almost like a political [TS]

01:02:51 ◼   ► thing that you know that the United States government doesn't negotiate with [TS]

01:02:54 ◼   ► terrorists and if that's your apology if you just state that is your policy of [TS]

01:02:57 ◼   ► from we don't negotiate with with terrorists it hopefully acts as a [TS]

01:03:02 ◼   ► deterrent to terrorists who would you know take people take us you know take [TS]

01:03:07 ◼   ► people hostage because they you know now it's not really true that we don't [TS]

01:03:10 ◼   ► negotiate with them but it's the policy and you can see the logic of that you [TS]

01:03:14 ◼   ► can see the logic of what you should never pay these people for this but at a [TS]

01:03:17 ◼   ► certain point it might have been worth it for if it was critical enough [TS]

01:03:20 ◼   ► information that might be worth it for you to pay whatever the price that the [TS]

01:03:24 ◼   ► price they're asking [TS]

01:03:25 ◼   ► however distasteful it is to actually give in and give these little criminals [TS]

01:03:30 ◼   ► money it might be more valuable to you you know then that you know that the [TS]

01:03:34 ◼   ► actual data that's been encrypted is more valuable [TS]

01:03:38 ◼   ► now the funny thing is that there's a group there's a group that you give him [TS]

01:03:46 ◼   ► the money and I'm laughing but it's terrible because it's it's even worse [TS]

01:03:49 ◼   ► obviously but the thing that makes me it makes me laugh about it is that all of [TS]

01:03:54 ◼   ► them and all of the is into ransomware and I hate it so funny to say that the [TS]

01:04:00 ◼   ► honest crooks I've got to be furious about this because if word spreads that [TS]

01:04:06 ◼   ► even if you pay you don't get your files back its gonna make people less likely [TS]

01:04:09 ◼   ► to pay I so many things to say about this guy say if you think yeah that's [TS]

01:04:12 ◼   ► only because but I spent several days working on this recently so okay so you [TS]

01:04:16 ◼   ► know how ship ransom works like piracy Somali pirates right money the planet [TS]

01:04:21 ◼   ► money to great piece about this that talk to one of the people who does [TS]

01:04:24 ◼   ► negotiate [TS]

01:04:25 ◼   ► asian with pirates to pay the ransom right if you start killing hostages [TS]

01:04:30 ◼   ► piracy stops working [TS]

01:04:32 ◼   ► so it's actually typically not dangerous to be taken captive by pirates Somalian [TS]

01:04:39 ◼   ► or whomever because it is entirely in the interest of the economic system cube [TS]

01:04:43 ◼   ► to negotiate a reasonable fee make sure all the hostages are unharmed [TS]

01:04:48 ◼   ► William sometimes released people for medical or compassionate reasons like [TS]

01:04:51 ◼   ► it's handled like a business then you have this situation where i can belong [TS]

01:04:55 ◼   ► to this was not a couple years where some pirate started killing people and [TS]

01:04:58 ◼   ► then it was like okay and all the Navy's the role but screw this and they start [TS]

01:05:02 ◼   ► steaming Navy ships in and sort of clean up the problem which has been a [TS]

01:05:05 ◼   ► commercial problem is now you know a human rights one right and i'm thinking [TS]

01:05:09 ◼   ► the idiots who think it's funny to delete the files are there too [TS]

01:05:14 ◼   ► incompetent whatever it is they have so many I mean there are so many angry [TS]

01:05:18 ◼   ► organized criminals in the moment they're these guys could get killed on [TS]

01:05:22 ◼   ► the site they're tracked down that's for sure so that's not funny but it's also [TS]

01:05:24 ◼   ► like it actually does exactly that the it's almost like a disruptive technique [TS]

01:05:29 ◼   ► that would it destroys the value of ransomware so in researching this story [TS]

01:05:32 ◼   ► i came across just a few days ago f-secure release this hilarious white [TS]

01:05:38 ◼   ► paper they tested the customer service of major ransomware packages [TS]

01:05:42 ◼   ► haha they're like it has a customer service burden i talked to this guy [TS]

01:05:47 ◼   ► named Sean Sullivan additive secure labs about some background stuff about [TS]

01:05:50 ◼   ► ransomware he said the reason it's gotten so popular is it store you know [TS]

01:05:55 ◼   ► the routing Network lets you do anonymize browsing that's how the ransom [TS]

01:05:59 ◼   ► where people post websites basically and bitcoin is all bitcoins no credit card [TS]

01:06:04 ◼   ► anymore [TS]

01:06:04 ◼   ► that's the big change in the ransomware dates back literally decades but this is [TS]

01:06:08 ◼   ► the the Bitcoin just makes it silicate so much the average ransomware demand [TS]

01:06:14 ◼   ► now has gone up from a few dollars with a Bitcoin to like 600 something dollars [TS]

01:06:18 ◼   ► but f-secure found you could negotiate with some of them will run the field [TS]

01:06:21 ◼   ► down they created like a naive user who then she they hired somebody who was not [TS]

01:06:26 ◼   ► technical to do the communications so they wouldn't give anything away about [TS]

01:06:29 ◼   ► you know what they say about more sophisticated details and they tested [TS]

01:06:32 ◼   ► all these the ability to extend the deadlines customer service people the [TS]

01:06:35 ◼   ► ransomware companies are very sensitive and one case they're like this is [TS]

01:06:39 ◼   ► as good as like real good customer service like what you get from a [TS]

01:06:41 ◼   ► software company they talk you through it they'll often teach you how to buy [TS]

01:06:44 ◼   ► bitcoin so that you can pay they can treat it like a real customer service [TS]

01:06:48 ◼   ► burden like it's a business and we're here to help you get your files back [TS]

01:06:51 ◼   ► so what if you think about it when do you typically get the best customer [TS]

01:06:56 ◼   ► service [TS]

01:06:57 ◼   ► typically you get better customer service before you've given them your [TS]

01:07:01 ◼   ► money [TS]

01:07:02 ◼   ► yeah right you get you get you know it's it's easier and you wait less time to [TS]

01:07:08 ◼   ► talk to a sales person before you bought something then when you come back with a [TS]

01:07:11 ◼   ► problem [TS]

01:07:12 ◼   ► yeah it's just the whole thing is hilarious and this is an awful so Mac [TS]

01:07:16 ◼   ► users you know there's been a couple ransomware attempt the software attempts [TS]

01:07:19 ◼   ► against Mac users and again because the user where r userspace file issue it's [TS]

01:07:24 ◼   ► possible we will see you know fishing style ransomware are things that will be [TS]

01:07:29 ◼   ► minimally capable because I os10 will execute certain kinds of things at the [TS]

01:07:34 ◼   ► question is your network access and some privileged may need would be harder than [TS]

01:07:38 ◼   ► I need to be an exploit pathway for a little bit of it but it is so much less [TS]

01:07:41 ◼   ► of a burden to get to have some effect so we'll see so hopefully won't affect [TS]

01:07:47 ◼   ► most of us but it is I'm any candidates you know everything you're saying it's [TS]

01:07:51 ◼   ► like update your software use patches make backups having good backups and i [TS]

01:07:56 ◼   ► use back plays and crashplan and local clones and I have a deep archives so if [TS]

01:08:01 ◼   ► i have all my files were encrypted today i have a hundred percent is on most of [TS]

01:08:07 ◼   ► the dropbox also into other play like at least one of the places should say where [TS]

01:08:11 ◼   ► I have a deep archive and I could go back to a pre encrypted release let me [TS]

01:08:16 ◼   ► take a break here thank our next sponsor is a longtime sponsor friend of the show [TS]

01:08:19 ◼   ► longtime sponsor fracture fracture is a photo decor company that is out to [TS]

01:08:25 ◼   ► rescue your favorite images from the digital ether they print your photos [TS]

01:08:30 ◼   ► directly under glass and add laser-cut rigid backing so they are ready to [TS]

01:08:36 ◼   ► display right out-of-the-box it's not like piece of paper glued to a piece of [TS]

01:08:40 ◼   ► glass they print the photo right on the glass [TS]

01:08:44 ◼   ► they've been a sponsor for years I still haven't seen anybody else that does this [TS]

01:08:47 ◼   ► maybe somebody's I think the fractures got all this proprietary stuff down [TS]

01:08:50 ◼   ► there [TS]

01:08:50 ◼   ► it is an amazing display I've always said it is very much like the the way [TS]

01:08:56 ◼   ► that the retina displays once Apple started fusing the screens to the [TS]

01:09:00 ◼   ► glassware it looks like the pixels are on the glass instead of behind a layer [TS]

01:09:03 ◼   ► of class that's what factor photos look like except they're completely analog it [TS]

01:09:08 ◼   ► is a great thing to do with your digital photos i have thousands i should [TS]

01:09:12 ◼   ► thousands of photos every year and the ones i like best [TS]

01:09:16 ◼   ► I get get imprinted on these fractures hang them up around the house [TS]

01:09:19 ◼   ► that's what people used to do because you put photos were printed you go [TS]

01:09:23 ◼   ► youtube photos you getting back from the photo lab you take the ones you like out [TS]

01:09:27 ◼   ► you know that the real keepers you'd instead of just putting back in the [TS]

01:09:30 ◼   ► envelope you put them in a frame hang them up we don't do that anymore because [TS]

01:09:34 ◼   ► there's like this extra step for you gotta get them from your digital archive [TS]

01:09:38 ◼   ► to being on this is the way to do it if you're going to print your photos take [TS]

01:09:41 ◼   ► the keepers and send them to fracture they're so good they have so many sizes [TS]

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01:09:51 ◼   ► to love your order each fracture is handmade in gainesville florida from us [TS]

01:09:56 ◼   ► source materials in their carbon neutral factory all happens in the u.s. so for [TS]

01:10:02 ◼   ► more information and ten percent off your first order visit fracture me.com / [TS]

01:10:09 ◼   ► podcast there's even a special note here that says note the URL really ends in [TS]

01:10:14 ◼   ► podcast not going not the name of your podcast because I'll tell you if they [TS]

01:10:19 ◼   ► did put that note in here ice i would have said a fracture me.com / the talk [TS]

01:10:23 ◼   ► show but that's not it [TS]

01:10:24 ◼   ► remember this it's fracture me.com / podcast and then what they want you to [TS]

01:10:29 ◼   ► do when you place your order they're gonna say where did you hear about this [TS]

01:10:32 ◼   ► just mention that you heard it from the talk show and don't know that you came [TS]

01:10:34 ◼   ► from here it's a it's it's literally it is a one question survey where did you [TS]

01:10:40 ◼   ► hear about factor so it is the easiest survey you will ever take just remember [TS]

01:10:44 ◼   ► to tell them that help support the show and it's fracture me.com / podcast can I [TS]

01:10:55 ◼   ► talk about whatever you want i well I prefer another this is like this in the [TS]

01:10:59 ◼   ► sidebar your reading recently about amazon and its inventory the birkenstock [TS]

01:11:03 ◼   ► store ads on my list of topics [TS]

01:11:05 ◼   ► okay well I have something to say about that but we can go take your direction I [TS]

01:11:08 ◼   ► don't I i think i think we were done with security so we can totally go onto [TS]

01:11:11 ◼   ► amazon fraud I've link just to a couple of recent stories about so terrible so [TS]

01:11:17 ◼   ► there's a couple of aspects to one is the the main one that i've been reading [TS]

01:11:23 ◼   ► because it seems like it's a little bit new is his big brands being ripped off [TS]

01:11:30 ◼   ► by mostly Chinese counterfeiters and then they sell these things through [TS]

01:11:35 ◼   ► amazon was the first 1i heard this is maybe two years ago is that mophie [TS]

01:11:40 ◼   ► products mophie the battery after they make a whole bunch of battery external [TS]

01:11:46 ◼   ► battery packs and battery cases for four phones really interesting company i have [TS]

01:11:52 ◼   ► a couple of the things and I really i have to say i like them a lot [TS]

01:11:57 ◼   ► I have a battery I like that instead of a case I like to just have the battery [TS]

01:12:01 ◼   ► pack and they make one that has built-in lightning and USB cable so you don't [TS]

01:12:06 ◼   ► need to take cables you don't need to have an extra cable i really like that [TS]

01:12:10 ◼   ► product that's my favorite external battery thing ever but I heard years ago [TS]

01:12:15 ◼   ► just like to at least two years ago don't buy movie stuff on Amazon because [TS]

01:12:18 ◼   ► it there's so much Chinese knockoff crap that looks like a multi-product but it's [TS]

01:12:23 ◼   ► really substandard electronics the batteries are no good that they're just [TS]

01:12:27 ◼   ► crummy products if you google like mophie amazon you'll find lots of hits [TS]

01:12:32 ◼   ► about it so now just recently this week [TS]

01:12:34 ◼   ► birkenstock the and sandals what else do they make just sandals and flip-flops is [TS]

01:12:38 ◼   ► that I was called by the way I was called socks and sandals in college [TS]

01:12:42 ◼   ► because of my birkenstock habits [TS]

01:12:44 ◼   ► just so you know I would school the East grew up in the West that's not because I [TS]

01:12:49 ◼   ► is pulling out of amazon on january i guess they had they can't do it [TS]

01:12:53 ◼   ► immediately because it made of contracts or inventory or something big but [TS]

01:12:56 ◼   ► they're so overrun by counterfeiters on amazon that they're pulling out [TS]

01:13:00 ◼   ► we are you and you love they're like Amazon basically told him if you want to [TS]

01:13:04 ◼   ► be sell every single thing you sell then we will fight counterfeiting i mean i'm [TS]

01:13:08 ◼   ► paraphrasing and if you want to just sell the way you're doing then screw I [TS]

01:13:11 ◼   ► mean they didn't see it that way but that's the effect that's you know that's [TS]

01:13:14 ◼   ► a Birkenstock claims at least I think I could be wrong on this [TS]

01:13:18 ◼   ► i I've i wrote I that I it's sort of like when you search for stuff on amazon [TS]

01:13:23 ◼   ► it tells you who its who you're buying it from and you know with a lot of the [TS]

01:13:27 ◼   ► smaller things like when you just go there and buy the copy paper printer [TS]

01:13:33 ◼   ► paper you know it's like full you know it's just that you're like not really [TS]

01:13:37 ◼   ► buying it from amazon you're buying it from some vendor that sells through [TS]

01:13:40 ◼   ► amazon but I've was under the impression that even if you wanted to buy like a [TS]

01:13:44 ◼   ► mophie battery pack if you buy it directly from amazon and you're not [TS]

01:13:48 ◼   ► buying it from you know Joe's battery right that you're you know you could [TS]

01:13:54 ◼   ► beasts [TS]

01:13:55 ◼   ► you know you could feel safe that you're getting the actual movie product but you [TS]

01:13:58 ◼   ► kind of have to be so mad [TS]

01:14:01 ◼   ► you have to be like a fucking clothes reader how many people who shop at [TS]

01:14:04 ◼   ► amazon actually look at who it [TS]

01:14:06 ◼   ► who-who's this fulfillment is i don't think most people most reasonable you [TS]

01:14:11 ◼   ► know most regular people even know that that's how Amazon works you know I think [TS]

01:14:14 ◼   ► they they just think you're buying from amazon and they don't even look they [TS]

01:14:18 ◼   ► just look at prices and they might be curious about the fact that the same [TS]

01:14:22 ◼   ► product is available three different prices from amazon because it's from [TS]

01:14:26 ◼   ► three different you know whatever you want to call them fulfillment partners [TS]

01:14:32 ◼   ► yeah RM martineau it's 33 marketplace or maybe through there they fulfilled by [TS]

01:14:37 ◼   ► amazon also you can send your stuff to amazon and they will sell it to their [TS]

01:14:42 ◼   ► own customers right this so you know I think you mentioned this in one of the [TS]

01:14:46 ◼   ► pieces that you link to the commingling so it's like two kinds of was actually [TS]

01:14:50 ◼   ► four kinds of fraud [TS]

01:14:51 ◼   ► there are two kinds of major fraud one is there's so many kinds of ok so [TS]

01:14:55 ◼   ► commingling is company X ships a product to amazon and they say this is exactly [TS]

01:15:01 ◼   ► the same here's the SKU number this is product why that you already sell like a [TS]

01:15:06 ◼   ► Cuisinart electric kettle which is really why bring that up right [TS]

01:15:09 ◼   ► amazon does commingling where they take this inventory I don't even know what [TS]

01:15:12 ◼   ► the inspector [TS]

01:15:13 ◼   ► never they put it on their shelves as and they don't care they treated as a [TS]

01:15:19 ◼   ► fungible thing this thing that came from company X that claims product why we're [TS]

01:15:23 ◼   ► putting on the shelves or warehouse next to this thing that came from the [TS]

01:15:26 ◼   ► manufacturer that claims product why right I have heard stories from multiple [TS]

01:15:31 ◼   ► places and you can read them publicly to allow these articles about companies [TS]

01:15:35 ◼   ► like broken birkenstock has a different problem which I get to but that you buy [TS]

01:15:39 ◼   ► a product you go to Amazon you order product Y and it comes in here like this [TS]

01:15:43 ◼   ► is not product why you complaining amazon and they're like oh and it back [TS]

01:15:46 ◼   ► with shipping new one or you can play the company i bought product Y from [TS]

01:15:49 ◼   ► amazon they like we didn't make that doesn't have this no that's a [TS]

01:15:53 ◼   ► counterfeit it was putting amazon stream and we cannot prevent them from selling [TS]

01:15:56 ◼   ► them basically that's the common problem [TS]

01:15:59 ◼   ► birkenstock has the undercutting problem where people are listing things [TS]

01:16:02 ◼   ► basically the same kind of thing their undercutting Birkenstocks prices and [TS]

01:16:06 ◼   ► they may or may not be shipping a Birkenstock the probably shipping thing [TS]

01:16:09 ◼   ► as it could be there buying it for some other source or it could be their [TS]

01:16:13 ◼   ► manufacturing something that is completely counterfeit and selling it [TS]

01:16:16 ◼   ► and we're both huge problems because in the one case you have this thing where [TS]

01:16:20 ◼   ► people but I mean actually birkenstock is the same problem whether it's a [TS]

01:16:23 ◼   ► co-mingled problem or counterfeit and cheaper Mumbai's it says birkenstock [TS]

01:16:27 ◼   ► screwed either way the companies that we didn't make that which buy from amazon [TS]

01:16:30 ◼   ► that's not ours she bought the $80 100-dollar one we don't sell it for a [TS]

01:16:34 ◼   ► $MONEY dollars you bought the lucky one [TS]

01:16:36 ◼   ► alright so this just happened to me last night [TS]

01:16:39 ◼   ► really yeah so I right well the product so haha electric kettle of electric [TS]

01:16:45 ◼   ► kettle I've had two Brown model ones or brawn I guess we say in America my wife [TS]

01:16:49 ◼   ► got one for a birthday like 15 years ago it worked fine for several years and [TS]

01:16:53 ◼   ► then it just died so we bought the identical thing like a twenty-dollar one [TS]

01:16:57 ◼   ► it's worked great [TS]

01:16:58 ◼   ► it just dies today same thing some kind of its got all these contacts breaks so [TS]

01:17:02 ◼   ► I'm like okay I will find out what wire cutter recommends my old friends wire [TS]

01:17:05 ◼   ► cutter and sweet home was a contractor therefore bit i love the people there [TS]

01:17:09 ◼   ► love the process of my car [TS]

01:17:10 ◼   ► what do they recommend like oh god it's a dollar so i just many dollars on that [TS]

01:17:14 ◼   ► like I don't know I'm not made of money [TS]

01:17:17 ◼   ► jason l has a Breville T robot which is too [TS]

01:17:22 ◼   ► fifty dollars which I've been dying for a year not I can't get it can robot that [TS]

01:17:28 ◼   ► makes T it has a basket that lowers robotically and raises brutes it steeps [TS]

01:17:34 ◼   ► for the right amount of time and I just wanted to clarify that it was t the [TS]

01:17:38 ◼   ► beverage and not like a some kinda I you know like a t-shirt like the letter [TS]

01:17:42 ◼   ► something I wasn't familiar with I wasn't it's a tea brewing robot pot it's [TS]

01:17:47 ◼   ► off its and people love the brown but I'm not ready to spend i love to be able [TS]

01:17:51 ◼   ► to if I ever got some great contractor something I might say this is my treat [TS]

01:17:54 ◼   ► to myself I will get a robot that makes tea for me and you still have to put [TS]

01:17:58 ◼   ► stuff in the basket moves it lose it up again doesn't overstay so anyway [TS]

01:18:02 ◼   ► 80 bucks like that seemed scared and I started doing research may go to Amazon [TS]

01:18:05 ◼   ► because it's usually my first stop and there are like 700 electric kettles now [TS]

01:18:09 ◼   ► and many of them have one review which makes no sense right [TS]

01:18:13 ◼   ► likewise what's something with one review in a brand name I've never heard [TS]

01:18:16 ◼   ► of in my 48 years on this planet and then a bunch of others I find what I'm [TS]

01:18:20 ◼   ► like this is like 300 views I've never heard of this thing and ninety-seven [TS]

01:18:25 ◼   ► percent of them are five stars you know how the app store work same thing [TS]

01:18:29 ◼   ► wassup i'm reading the reviews like Marty says this is a great cattle this [TS]

01:18:32 ◼   ► kennel does everything i want to it's great [TS]

01:18:34 ◼   ► Jill says this kettle is great it does everything i wanted to this case let's [TS]

01:18:38 ◼   ► create because on and on and there's a few real five star reviews and then a [TS]

01:18:42 ◼   ► distribution of other ones like I'm not going to buy that because that some [TS]

01:18:45 ◼   ► piece of crap manufacture god-knows-where that they're you know [TS]

01:18:48 ◼   ► for a finite amount of time they're going to push through amazon and make [TS]

01:18:51 ◼   ► some hundreds of thousands of dollars somewhere the $23 good kettles and brown [TS]

01:18:56 ◼   ► can't find Browns anymore everyone's got upscale kettles now costs fifty sixty [TS]

01:19:00 ◼   ► eight dollars to do basic stuff so like all right well bite the bullet [TS]

01:19:03 ◼   ► I i use the cattle 23 times day my wife used it two times a day [TS]

01:19:07 ◼   ► this is a high you think I can't look for spending dollars and I hate it when [TS]

01:19:11 ◼   ► you're spending dollars could Amazon site and I'm like all right well in city [TS]

01:19:14 ◼   ► parks ok i'm looking through views but this looks pretty good and then look at [TS]

01:19:17 ◼   ► the cellar [TS]

01:19:18 ◼   ► it's a Cuisinart but it doesn't say sold by cuisinart says sold by I everything [TS]

01:19:24 ◼   ► lucky I'm not making this up everything lucky the selling the cuisinart and I [TS]

01:19:32 ◼   ► think this this isn't right so i searched an Amazon site for the model [TS]

01:19:35 ◼   ► number it's like CP [TS]

01:19:36 ◼   ► cpk 1212 or something and like all right so where is and then I find another [TS]

01:19:41 ◼   ► listing for a hundred dollars with ok so the eighty dollar unit everyday lucky [TS]

01:19:46 ◼   ► which I find out later . that's me says ever day lucky it's not even spelled [TS]

01:19:50 ◼   ► right whenever the making of their most recent and everyday lucky is mostly [TS]

01:19:54 ◼   ► selling iphone cases and the squeeze in our alleged cuisinart so that the eighty [TS]

01:19:59 ◼   ► dollar every day lucky listing has 2500 clearly legitimate reviews they have [TS]

01:20:05 ◼   ► managed somehow to hijack the main listing there's a hundred-dollar version [TS]

01:20:10 ◼   ► and if you look at all the other people selling this like Target Walmart Best [TS]

01:20:14 ◼   ► Buy they're all selling this model four hundred dollars so I'm like that's the [TS]

01:20:16 ◼   ► list price clearly and the hundred-dollar one on amazon says by sol [TS]

01:20:20 ◼   ► by cuisinart is being fulfilled by a third party but it's clearly the [TS]

01:20:24 ◼   ► legitimate product but it's like 7 reviews so i asked my friends at [TS]

01:20:27 ◼   ► sweethome what's going on here they're like out what happened is like a [TS]

01:20:31 ◼   ► response to my from Tony over there who's great you know they're all these [TS]

01:20:33 ◼   ► deals people in anything he says what happened is the Amazon rain out of stock [TS]

01:20:40 ◼   ► that sells directly and so they pulled a listing for someone selling it new not [TS]

01:20:45 ◼   ► you know used or new refurbished whatever and they drop that in so they [TS]

01:20:49 ◼   ► don't drop the listing off and so in this case every day lucky was the backup [TS]

01:20:53 ◼   ► provider in their listing of third-party sellers for this particular model that's [TS]

01:20:58 ◼   ► it I've i'm looking at it as we speak it at everything like whoever you ever [TS]

01:21:03 ◼   ► think lucky sorry everything i'm lucky i know isn't that in so that is my story [TS]

01:21:07 ◼   ► so it's little there [TS]

01:21:08 ◼   ► yeah so we'll know so I wake up this morning and tony has responded speak on [TS]

01:21:11 ◼   ► via twitter is great God is like oh here's what's gonna check its back and I [TS]

01:21:14 ◼   ► go and like oh there's the Amazon listing at sixty-seven dollars now I [TS]

01:21:17 ◼   ► feel justified of ways right do you think that this is the real product [TS]

01:21:21 ◼   ► though [TS]

01:21:21 ◼   ► well we'll see it so i think it is it may be but there's no way to know like [TS]

01:21:26 ◼   ► I'm buying it from a third party seller who isn't clearly done somatic so this [TS]

01:21:31 ◼   ► morning i placed an order page sixty-seven dollars everyone can [TS]

01:21:33 ◼   ► criticize me for my profit spending and if you like please feel free [TS]

01:21:38 ◼   ► anyway so i buy it and I right back to Tony Mike a the thing you're right [TS]

01:21:43 ◼   ► swapped back is like I just went back it's there [TS]

01:21:45 ◼   ► apparently i bought the one model amazon had no way [TS]

01:21:47 ◼   ► us that if the field itself is back to everything lucky yeah so anyway that's [TS]

01:21:51 ◼   ► the problem i have so i don't know everything lucky could be selling me a [TS]

01:21:56 ◼   ► legitimate object in still twenty dollars less than retail price at Target [TS]

01:21:59 ◼   ► Walmart etc however they're getting the advantage of 2,500 positive reviews and [TS]

01:22:05 ◼   ► Amazon doesn't that product is actually knew from cuisinart item [TS]

01:22:10 ◼   ► yeah so part of the part of the problem the the way that I mean this is so [TS]

01:22:15 ◼   ► insidious but part of this problem now is if if it starts to if awareness [TS]

01:22:20 ◼   ► starts to spread that you can't trust stuff through third-party sellers on [TS]

01:22:24 ◼   ► amazon it hurts all of the honest ones that the system was set up for in the [TS]

01:22:29 ◼   ► first place [TS]

01:22:29 ◼   ► excited is terrible all around there's also like even get another variant that [TS]

01:22:34 ◼   ► too is that so those are like the most legitimate cases right like this could [TS]

01:22:40 ◼   ► absolutely be a fell off the truck or you bought like you know one of the [TS]

01:22:43 ◼   ► things in China is that and I've heard this I hope I don't mean to tell lies [TS]

01:22:47 ◼   ► about China so let's say this is I don't know if this is true but I've read it in [TS]

01:22:50 ◼   ► another number of accounts I've talked to people that mix-up made in china it's [TS]

01:22:54 ◼   ► a complaint made by a number of companies about things china is come [TS]

01:22:58 ◼   ► some factories will gear up products for a given maker and during the day they're [TS]

01:23:02 ◼   ► being supervisor be made for maker you know whatever company is no reebok or [TS]

01:23:07 ◼   ► whatever issues it could be because our candles at night they fire up the lines [TS]

01:23:12 ◼   ► they make stuff they sell themselves when they're essentially identical [TS]

01:23:14 ◼   ► sometimes there's labeling changes so they're identical unit with it not [TS]

01:23:18 ◼   ► labels they avoid some intellectual property issues so the birkenstock thing [TS]

01:23:22 ◼   ► when you're going to perkins to try to buy a burka second their list prices [TS]

01:23:25 ◼   ► hundred dollars for whatever and his people suddenly for eight dollars you [TS]

01:23:29 ◼   ► might be getting a legitimate thing it might be made as a factory nighttime job [TS]

01:23:32 ◼   ► or who knows what or they're just doing deeper discounts because however they're [TS]

01:23:36 ◼   ► acquiring it they're not honoring the list price the same thing that [TS]

01:23:40 ◼   ► cuisinart cattle bought from everything he could have been absolutely the same [TS]

01:23:44 ◼   ► as anything purchased directly from amazon warehouse or from a third-party [TS]

01:23:48 ◼   ► you no authorized hughesnet thing but you don't know that's the other problem [TS]

01:23:53 ◼   ► like the other thing is that what you're saying before is it's the the [TS]

01:23:57 ◼   ► counterfeit stuff that's just knock-offs that are crap and they appear to be [TS]

01:24:01 ◼   ► listed the same so it's I see this all the time for us you know all these [TS]

01:24:05 ◼   ► different products i'm looking for for reviews and things you find stuff that [TS]

01:24:08 ◼   ► is clearly the pictures are something off you buy it something is not right [TS]

01:24:13 ◼   ► and you're not you know sometimes it's listed under slightly different name [TS]

01:24:16 ◼   ► sometimes it's listed as exactly the same thing is trying to take advantage [TS]

01:24:19 ◼   ► the reputation but all these problems persist because amazon wants to sell nor [TS]

01:24:24 ◼   ► it doesn't want to do tighter inventory control because it costs a lot of money [TS]

01:24:26 ◼   ► shaves the margins off so i just sent you the link [TS]

01:24:29 ◼   ► this is the one . court cordless electric tea kettle and this is the [TS]

01:24:33 ◼   ► product you're talking about i got the finest I kind of hate the interface to [TS]

01:24:38 ◼   ► tell you know I bet it's the best cheapest thing like if you want [TS]

01:24:42 ◼   ► something better you have to spend more like I know looks horrible [TS]

01:24:46 ◼   ► increase is IPE cpk 17 sold by everything lucky now if you look I think [TS]

01:24:52 ◼   ► it's the same product there's there's a thing that size 7 cup and yes one it is [TS]

01:24:57 ◼   ► the two sizes that are offered is seven cup which is a hundred dollars and then [TS]

01:25:02 ◼   ► the other one instead of measuring cups it just gives you the dimensions of the [TS]

01:25:06 ◼   ► box 9.7 all I six-by-eight and so they may have managed to sneak interesting [TS]

01:25:13 ◼   ► but they've made it look like there's two options of the same product but [TS]

01:25:17 ◼   ► they're one is measuring by the cup capacity of how much water you can put [TS]

01:25:22 ◼   ► in any other one is measured in inches [TS]

01:25:24 ◼   ► yeah the word that a court one is the second cup 1 is sold by card machine [TS]

01:25:28 ◼   ► outlet inc of the world you know like says oh it says mind says it's by [TS]

01:25:33 ◼   ► cuisinart yeah just scroll down under in stock it says six all I yeah I know [TS]

01:25:39 ◼   ► isn't it so [TS]

01:25:40 ◼   ► no- alright kitchen kapers oh my god what happens when I reload that's [TS]

01:25:43 ◼   ► hilarious minus from kitchen kapers primary loading a different answer i [TS]

01:25:48 ◼   ► think and so this one is a hundred dollars and prime is available but that [TS]

01:25:53 ◼   ► $80 one it to me is suspicious the $80 one and I guess [TS]

01:25:57 ◼   ► amazon defaults to it because it's cheapest yeah that's exactly a fact that [TS]

01:26:01 ◼   ► that's the one by everything lucky the fact that it's cheaper makes me think [TS]

01:26:05 ◼   ► that it might be fake I would actually if I were going to buy this right now i [TS]

01:26:08 ◼   ► would buy i would actually spend the extra twenty dollars to get the one that [TS]

01:26:11 ◼   ► says it by cuisinart [TS]

01:26:13 ◼   ► except here's a funny thing so when i logged in this morning amazon apparently [TS]

01:26:16 ◼   ► gotten one on the shelves that they filled directly so that is sold by [TS]

01:26:19 ◼   ► amazon 67 bucks so I got the deal i guess i got the one that was $67 yeah [TS]

01:26:24 ◼   ► i'm very happy about that I'm able to boil mighty all kinds of temperatures [TS]

01:26:27 ◼   ► and now there's another there's another type of fraud going on amazon and this [TS]

01:26:31 ◼   ► is just common knowledge that will come but I I link i linked to the to somebody [TS]

01:26:37 ◼   ► on Twitter yesterday who bought I wanted to get a floor mat and they got they got [TS]

01:26:43 ◼   ► like a almost like a mousepad type with printed on the mousepad like it is it is [TS]

01:26:49 ◼   ► format size but printed on the code of piece of foam is a screen print of the [TS]

01:26:56 ◼   ► sort of texture of the full i was crying i was explaining that to my wife this [TS]

01:27:01 ◼   ► morning existing ok but a teakettle here's my story and she's laughing again [TS]

01:27:05 ◼   ► I told her about the other one the the cop the changing temperature pattern cup [TS]

01:27:09 ◼   ► one right with ya [TS]

01:27:11 ◼   ► the other 1i guess i'll put a link to my to my daring fireball link piece in the [TS]

01:27:16 ◼   ► show notes and I was so i looked up there but somebody bought there was a [TS]

01:27:19 ◼   ► listing on amazon and showed a picture to pictures of the same mug one was like [TS]

01:27:24 ◼   ► when it's empty and it just looks by a black and if you fill it with a hot [TS]

01:27:29 ◼   ► beverage it with a color will that the AIDS printed for some kind of [TS]

01:27:34 ◼   ► temperature-sensitive inc [TS]

01:27:36 ◼   ► yeah changes and gives you like a snowy Christmas scene and so somebody bought [TS]

01:27:40 ◼   ► the house on amazon and what they got was a mug where somebody had printed [TS]

01:27:45 ◼   ► that photo of two mugs onto the mug so it was a nice thing a mug with a with a [TS]

01:27:53 ◼   ► photo of two mugs Lana actually gonna be a great know that now that has become a [TS]

01:28:00 ◼   ► meme will be a great gift I would love to buy a mug with a picture of two mugs [TS]

01:28:04 ◼   ► on it i think that is great and I guess that the idea with that type of scam is [TS]

01:28:10 ◼   ► that it is so I mean I'm guessing that this was not a very expensive mug that [TS]

01:28:16 ◼   ► if it's only like four box or six box that people wouldn't even bother to send [TS]

01:28:20 ◼   ► it back [TS]

01:28:21 ◼   ► because it's like what's you know what's the point and I mean like you feel like [TS]

01:28:24 ◼   ► you're ripped off but at a certain point [TS]

01:28:27 ◼   ► oh yeah it's more of a hassle to send it back then it is that the money's worth [TS]

01:28:31 ◼   ► can I tell you my perfect walmart experience which is walmart pages came [TS]

01:28:34 ◼   ► out information why they rolled it out and I mean this is so I've been laughing [TS]

01:28:38 ◼   ► about currency which was the you know the big retailer system that was [TS]

01:28:41 ◼   ► supposed to use to decode and checking accounts and crap laughing about that [TS]

01:28:46 ◼   ► for your Suzy oaks nine the macro podcast every time a currency story [TS]

01:28:49 ◼   ► comes out we make sure highlight so we can laugh at it because it sort of it if [TS]

01:28:54 ◼   ► it come out before Apple pay and then android pay maybe got a little bit of [TS]

01:28:58 ◼   ► traction I don't know but it didn't write it was like ridiculous finally [TS]

01:29:01 ◼   ► basically shut down their focus on the mcx consortium that's a bunch of these [TS]

01:29:06 ◼   ► big retailers is now focusing on back and stuff which is great so walmart has [TS]

01:29:10 ◼   ► been working on its own system its member of the mcx consortium but I've [TS]

01:29:13 ◼   ► been working on its own variant and I saw announce that I'm like you know this [TS]

01:29:16 ◼   ► doesn't look as awful you don't they don't accept checking account linkages [TS]

01:29:20 ◼   ► so there's less risk of your stuff being hijacked right where you're checking can [TS]

01:29:24 ◼   ► be drained it's always a pain to get anything fixed i just talked to some of [TS]

01:29:27 ◼   ► the other day they had a hundred and sixty thousand dollars take out of [TS]

01:29:31 ◼   ► checking account after this old house took them six months to get it back even [TS]

01:29:35 ◼   ► though they had not authorized anything they weren't even scammed the bank was [TS]

01:29:38 ◼   ► scammed so checking counter pain in the ass credit cards debit cards we have [TS]

01:29:42 ◼   ► protections even gift card sales training sign [TS]

01:29:45 ◼   ► yeah that's positively terrified or no protection accounts let's go all go back [TS]

01:29:50 ◼   ► to that coin and cat and gold so state attorney general's have a lot of control [TS]

01:29:54 ◼   ► over our gift cards there's this those are state regulated and so there's [TS]

01:29:59 ◼   ► control over there so Walmart pay will let you use walmart gift card debit card [TS]

01:30:02 ◼   ► credit card and prepaid card something like that [TS]

01:30:06 ◼   ► I'm like well this is kind of cool you still have to use a barcode you're [TS]

01:30:09 ◼   ► scanning a to decode but it all looked sensible so I pitched a macro let me go [TS]

01:30:14 ◼   ► right about this is sure so I find a walmart about 20 minutes away and into [TS]

01:30:18 ◼   ► they have they opened it actually store the shutdown which is rare for them and [TS]

01:30:22 ◼   ► i go there and first thing in the morning the place is totally empty no [TS]

01:30:25 ◼   ► one's even trailing me around make sure I don't steal there's no greater nobody [TS]

01:30:28 ◼   ► checked my receipt when i left the place is empty we need to buy a cheap [TS]

01:30:32 ◼   ► walk with the face for our dining room so that my younger son does not spend an [TS]

01:30:36 ◼   ► hour a half eating at the table with the same piece of toast so we can get [TS]

01:30:40 ◼   ► through things that he so some children dogs somebody fast anyway so I find a [TS]

01:30:45 ◼   ► clock cost 650 like this is great [TS]

01:30:47 ◼   ► battery-operated school like the face whatever to checkout process actually [TS]

01:30:51 ◼   ► quite like it already set up walmart pay the app is actually very well-designed [TS]

01:30:54 ◼   ► point-of-sale system displays the code you just open your app you've tap it and [TS]

01:30:59 ◼   ► you're done and it's electronic this is great i get home i unpack at the clock [TS]

01:31:04 ◼   ► doesn't work so that's the that's the walmart story I i have noticed that [TS]

01:31:10 ◼   ► seems like uh I don't know it if this was predicted and I actually wanted to [TS]

01:31:16 ◼   ► talk about Apple pay [TS]

01:31:17 ◼   ► oh yeah it seems to me and it in apple is an interesting apples usually late to [TS]

01:31:23 ◼   ► most things but every once in awhile there early on things like for example [TS]

01:31:28 ◼   ► Wi-Fi Apple you know way like an apple introduced the idea that had Wi-Fi they [TS]

01:31:34 ◼   ► actually had explained Wi-Fi was and that was that was the event where phil [TS]

01:31:38 ◼   ► schiller uh did like a stunt like Jehovah yeah climbed up a ladder and [TS]

01:31:43 ◼   ► jump 10 feet onto a padded mat while holding the ibook to prove that it was [TS]

01:31:49 ◼   ► you know getting the internet over the air like they actually it was almost [TS]

01:31:53 ◼   ► like you know it the idea that you're getting internet over-the-air was such a [TS]

01:31:57 ◼   ► novelty that they actually felt like that approve it and it seems to me like [TS]

01:32:01 ◼   ► apple pays another one of those things where Apple pay came out at the right [TS]

01:32:05 ◼   ► time like because it's just that maybe it's a local thing here in Philly but [TS]

01:32:09 ◼   ► maybe it's something else but a whole bunch just change around here have [TS]

01:32:12 ◼   ► suddenly started getting the chip and pin registers and they are they all seem [TS]

01:32:17 ◼   ► to work with Apple pay even though they don't have apple pay logos yet like so [TS]

01:32:21 ◼   ► we have a supermarket chain here called Acme they don't have there's no apple [TS]

01:32:25 ◼   ► pay logo but it just says tapper pay or something forget what they all say but [TS]

01:32:32 ◼   ► there's like a little logo that suggests that maybe there's some kind of NFC [TS]

01:32:35 ◼   ► thing and so I i tried Apple pay and it just works [TS]

01:32:39 ◼   ► and starbucks are locals at least the the 1i go to now as chip-and-pin but a [TS]

01:32:45 ◼   ► lot of these ones to they get the chip and pin and then they say have a piece [TS]

01:32:50 ◼   ► of tape there and I said yeah ChIP chip doesn't work yet [TS]

01:32:54 ◼   ► yeah but it's starbucks Apple pay worked and i paid [TS]

01:32:58 ◼   ► oh I paid with Apple pay at starbucks and if that's new right it is were only [TS]

01:33:04 ◼   ► knew I mean like you may have literally roll out its like maybe like within the [TS]

01:33:08 ◼   ► last 10 days at least here and that the none of you know I and it's funny [TS]

01:33:13 ◼   ► because it like Whole Foods where I go they have had a play for a while they [TS]

01:33:16 ◼   ► were like a debut partner and like listed on the slide on the stage and it [TS]

01:33:22 ◼   ► i've been using it at at at whole foods for you you know ever since it came out [TS]

01:33:26 ◼   ► so it's not a novelty there but at starbucks I've gotten like two or three [TS]

01:33:30 ◼   ► of the the Clarks have been like well what did you just do that was amazing [TS]

01:33:34 ◼   ► but then I went today and it didn't work it it worked in so far as as when i got [TS]

01:33:41 ◼   ► my iphone near the terminal my credit card came up on the screen and it read [TS]

01:33:47 ◼   ► my fingerprint and when king and said done and in the little hand terminal [TS]

01:33:53 ◼   ► said processing but then the processing never went through in it I forget what [TS]

01:33:58 ◼   ► it said it just like processing was up way too long because apple pays very [TS]

01:34:02 ◼   ► fast usually know it was processing way too long and it said like payment could [TS]

01:34:08 ◼   ► not be completed and so I've had you know pay with a actual credit card like [TS]

01:34:12 ◼   ► a you know like a 23-percent I think my recollection that NFC is typically like [TS]

01:34:17 ◼   ► there's a protocol the the paint is a overseas a protocol so him even if it [TS]

01:34:22 ◼   ► isn't supposed to take apple pay if nfc-enabled at all it will try to do it [TS]

01:34:28 ◼   ► but the back in part may not work then there was the deal with that Africans [TS]

01:34:32 ◼   ► CVS or something with the mcx better yes [TS]

01:34:35 ◼   ► yeah it launches like people were paying with Apple pay their like all supposed [TS]

01:34:38 ◼   ► to work it's like they take and they literally and they literally did state [TS]

01:34:42 ◼   ► nationwide CBS disconnected their entire the the ability to pay with any NFC at [TS]

01:34:48 ◼   ► all just so that it wouldn't use Apple pay even though they were [TS]

01:34:52 ◼   ► really getting the money from apple but it wasn't like they were getting ripped [TS]

01:34:55 ◼   ► off [TS]

01:34:56 ◼   ► it was they want to play a little deal and it was no I just I just got an email [TS]

01:35:00 ◼   ► from a company i want to mention his name yet because I haven't tested but [TS]

01:35:03 ◼   ► they're so full of secrets [TS]

01:35:04 ◼   ► I'm so we know it's not their secret i don't want to promote them until i see [TS]

01:35:07 ◼   ► what they actually do during beta testing it like public baby have to sign [TS]

01:35:11 ◼   ► up they are our good friend animalistic or is that is not a video for them [TS]

01:35:15 ◼   ► no that's how incredible they are ok they're great and it's a very funny [TS]

01:35:19 ◼   ► video of course so and very informative so this [TS]

01:35:22 ◼   ► do you remember several years ago there were some credit cards that would let [TS]

01:35:27 ◼   ► you create an individual card number for every transaction yes yes i love that i [TS]

01:35:33 ◼   ► use that and you can set things like this can charge no more than a higher [TS]

01:35:36 ◼   ► dollars a month this is a one-time use and should only work until such like all [TS]

01:35:39 ◼   ► these things in the interface was terrible it's pretty mobile it was awful [TS]

01:35:42 ◼   ► and online payment was terrible anyway so this is an outfit that is doing the [TS]

01:35:46 ◼   ► same thing with an appt you sign up you get a credit card through their partner [TS]

01:35:50 ◼   ► which I forget which bank is a major bag and eighteen percent credit you no [TS]

01:35:54 ◼   ► interest APR so it's you know it's the kind of car you'd better pay off because [TS]

01:35:58 ◼   ► it's not real otherwise in one percent cashback so it's they got all these [TS]

01:36:01 ◼   ► parameters on it but the fact is like for online transactions like your they [TS]

01:36:05 ◼   ► have a physical card you can use that's got an EMF EMV chip in it you could use [TS]

01:36:11 ◼   ► that but when you're paying online you know any kind of transaction you run the [TS]

01:36:15 ◼   ► app it generates a unique number with whatever parameters you want like one [TS]

01:36:18 ◼   ► time or whatever and you use that one time number and so it gets stolen you [TS]

01:36:22 ◼   ► know who stole it so I'm going to try they gave me an invitation i signed up [TS]

01:36:26 ◼   ► I'm gonna test my credit rating but I'm i had three Cardinal versatile this year [TS]

01:36:30 ◼   ► so far it's almost like I that's amazing a little long for me and numbers i have [TS]

01:36:34 ◼   ► a visa and amex and another visa three different card issuers and in every case [TS]

01:36:39 ◼   ► i gotta tell you the fraud people have gotten they used to be good i dealt with [TS]

01:36:42 ◼   ► this in the past of it but every call was with someone who is so crackerjack [TS]

01:36:46 ◼   ► and like they're obviously paying people while they're trained and well these [TS]

01:36:49 ◼   ► people were amusing and fun to be like fun to talk to [TS]

01:36:52 ◼   ► while we're going through all the crap you have to go through and they took [TS]

01:36:54 ◼   ► care of it in every case they caught it in one case like a 38 sent transaction [TS]

01:36:59 ◼   ► to a charity went through [TS]

01:37:01 ◼   ► but everything else didn't so the pilot yeah yeah that's what they that's what [TS]

01:37:06 ◼   ► they do I forget it wasn't me it was my wife i think it was eerie gas station [TS]

01:37:11 ◼   ► charge or online charge up like in a bodega somebody bought like a coke they [TS]

01:37:16 ◼   ► see if it's been cancelled yeah so they got it they they bought a coke and then [TS]

01:37:21 ◼   ► they went to buy like you know I don't know TV got same thing so in each of [TS]

01:37:25 ◼   ► these three cases are fraud pattern got it and they're like in two cases nothing [TS]

01:37:29 ◼   ► one case 38 cents which was refunded and for charity that 38 since they didn't [TS]

01:37:34 ◼   ► know they're going to get that has taken back but so i'm very interested in do [TS]

01:37:37 ◼   ► you think so i am so excited for Apple pay and safari not because i am so [TS]

01:37:42 ◼   ► excited about Apple pay but I'm like Apple pants parties can be the beginning [TS]

01:37:45 ◼   ► of a transition because android pay in whatever browse is coming like they're [TS]

01:37:50 ◼   ► going to be all these mobile pay options will now be available for desktop and [TS]

01:37:54 ◼   ► mobile web transactions the minute any of my cards are enabled I'm like never [TS]

01:38:01 ◼   ► going to buy anything from a site that doesn't do Apple pay in safari again I'm [TS]

01:38:04 ◼   ► dreading my amex getting ripped off again and happy years ago in somebody [TS]

01:38:09 ◼   ► some nitwit tried to buy jet skis in Arizona or New Mexico either Arizona New [TS]

01:38:17 ◼   ► Mexico everybody but you know the guy from amex called me and and said you [TS]

01:38:23 ◼   ► know you're not trying to buy jet skis in Arizona are you as a no definitely [TS]

01:38:27 ◼   ► not because I well somebody is sorry you know I like you said totally on the ball [TS]

01:38:31 ◼   ► just don't worry about it but your card is now canceled [TS]

01:38:35 ◼   ► I'm fedexing you a replacement it should be there tomorrow really sorry you know [TS]

01:38:39 ◼   ► you know but you play makes them you know and take a look take a look at your [TS]

01:38:44 ◼   ► you know next you know statement and all right I guess he read some of my recent [TS]

01:38:50 ◼   ► transactions that were me and I was like yeah those are all good but I'm dreading [TS]

01:38:55 ◼   ► my the 1i had now for a couple years getting ripped off because it's my new [TS]

01:39:00 ◼   ► couple of my new card came my last three digits are double-oh-seven oh my god [TS]

01:39:04 ◼   ► yeah love this card has some card numbers why don't they sell and I think [TS]

01:39:08 ◼   ► if you're a very high you're a whale of a card user or anything but I think you [TS]

01:39:12 ◼   ► can get your number you want it [TS]

01:39:14 ◼   ► I'm lucky numbers on their double actively I got doubles all my god that's [TS]

01:39:17 ◼   ► so it's so good and I always read I'm gonna have to read it over the phone i [TS]

01:39:20 ◼   ► always say that way like you know whatever whatever whatever whatever [TS]

01:39:24 ◼   ► whatever whatever and then double that's yeah I think I mean the painting the [TS]

01:39:32 ◼   ► fact that we're still using unsecured numbers to do this is sort of place like [TS]

01:39:35 ◼   ► I I've wondered why can't the credit card companies be set up to reduce [TS]

01:39:39 ◼   ► two-factor authentication like I'd be delighted if I went to amazon i punched [TS]

01:39:42 ◼   ► in my car around amazon because they have their own whatever go to branding [TS]

01:39:45 ◼   ► site X and before the transaction goes through it text me a code and I have to [TS]

01:39:49 ◼   ► enter it like I know the back end systems are ancient and weird and [TS]

01:39:53 ◼   ► whatever but you think after this many years they could just tack that on and [TS]

01:39:57 ◼   ► you enable in your card and if you went to a site they couldn't do it you know [TS]

01:40:00 ◼   ► they have to they say you know you have to try this transaction again after [TS]

01:40:03 ◼   ► clicking a link that's being sent to you email or some kind of my best but [TS]

01:40:06 ◼   ► apparently the frictionless nature of e-commerce has to be emphasized over the [TS]

01:40:10 ◼   ► amount of fraud fraud at some point becomes so high that they have to invent [TS]

01:40:15 ◼   ► new ways to help prevent against it but some balance there [TS]

01:40:18 ◼   ► so what do you think this go back to circle back to the same as I think [TS]

01:40:25 ◼   ► amazon has got to clean this mess up [TS]

01:40:26 ◼   ► I think Amazon needs to die i know that they're operating at a massive scale and [TS]

01:40:34 ◼   ► there's sort of you know an app store like problem there where if you've got [TS]

01:40:38 ◼   ► all these hundreds of thousands of products from all these partners that [TS]

01:40:40 ◼   ► you know maybe they can never achieve perfection but at this point it seems [TS]

01:40:45 ◼   ► like nobody's even watching watching the door [TS]

01:40:49 ◼   ► you know i mean it got well they could say there's like they could say there's [TS]

01:40:51 ◼   ► a thousand major brands or 10,000 major brands or they can even partner with [TS]

01:40:55 ◼   ► major brands you want to do this and say if your company for some no-name [TS]

01:40:59 ◼   ► supplier whose ships us the cuisinart electric kettle we're not gonna listen [TS]

01:41:03 ◼   ► as if we're going to commingle the inventory because you're nobody right or [TS]

01:41:06 ◼   ► you have to prove your relationship or you have to do some province or have to [TS]

01:41:09 ◼   ► prove yourself over time they give you a you know they give you some kind of long [TS]

01:41:14 ◼   ► payments to do something to vet you before you're allowed to ship product [TS]

01:41:18 ◼   ► that would be commingled they don't as far as i can tell they do a little bit [TS]

01:41:21 ◼   ► of something I know those issues with how they hold payment and so forth but i [TS]

01:41:25 ◼   ► don't think they have any real processes in place because [TS]

01:41:27 ◼   ► hasn't hit them yet but if you have companies like birkenstock saying were [TS]

01:41:31 ◼   ► more willing to to back out of you know these relationships that anything like [TS]

01:41:37 ◼   ► birkenstock I don't how many tens of millions of products they sell a lot of [TS]

01:41:40 ◼   ► dollars of products online but it's gotta be something so them saying [TS]

01:41:44 ◼   ► basically they're going to tell me this was a leaked memo so we don't know you [TS]

01:41:47 ◼   ► know this is internal stuff it wasn't a Birkenstock announcement of your company [TS]

01:41:51 ◼   ► saying if you buy a product for us from if you buy a product with our name on it [TS]

01:41:56 ◼   ► from amazon is not authorized it is likely counterfeit if it's being sold [TS]

01:42:00 ◼   ► knew that is I mean that is serious damage damage is ruined right because [TS]

01:42:05 ◼   ► what's that [TS]

01:42:06 ◼   ► retail is largely about trust in my opinion i mean i guess for some people [TS]

01:42:11 ◼   ► it and maybe this is the way amazon season maybe I guess for some people [TS]

01:42:14 ◼   ► retail is largely about price and it's all just cheap price and you know [TS]

01:42:19 ◼   ► walmart is sort of built on that but ah that there's I think walmart has for [TS]

01:42:26 ◼   ► people who like Walmart there's a certain trust right like I think part of [TS]

01:42:30 ◼   ► it is that people trust that the prices are going to be low [TS]

01:42:32 ◼   ► they just know you know we don't have don't don't even bother going around [TS]

01:42:36 ◼   ► town and price exactly pricing your dog food at the supermarket to just get it [TS]

01:42:41 ◼   ► at walmart you know it's going to be as cheaper cheaper and I think people know [TS]

01:42:46 ◼   ► that when you buy you know whatever brand dog food at walmart it really is [TS]

01:42:51 ◼   ► whatever brand dog food [TS]

01:42:53 ◼   ► you know it's it's the Reno that the cuisinart thing you buy it what Walmart [TS]

01:42:57 ◼   ► is a Cuisinart I think it's serious serious serious damage to Amazon's trust [TS]

01:43:03 ◼   ► that it's turning its reputation is starting to be like ebay where it say [TS]

01:43:06 ◼   ► who the hell's my god yeah it's it's true i remember by the way Jeff basis [TS]

01:43:10 ◼   ► said this I work for amazon brief like six months in 96-97 was hired by Jeff [TS]

01:43:15 ◼   ► knew when the company was starting out so it's a little bit of that you know it [TS]

01:43:18 ◼   ► wasn't a petition per se i did a great job a great shot a bunch of stuff [TS]

01:43:22 ◼   ► there's still like is to bunch of program i feel very happy my time there [TS]

01:43:25 ◼   ► like what I got done but Jeff said it's a meeting and I 20 years cover but very [TS]

01:43:29 ◼   ► distinctly he said we're eventually going to become authoritative for price [TS]

01:43:33 ◼   ► and what I mean by authoritative is not that we always had the best price that [TS]

01:43:36 ◼   ► people don't think they need to go anywhere else they just assume we do [TS]

01:43:39 ◼   ► right [TS]

01:43:39 ◼   ► and I was like that was like that I thought it was like hi wonder how that [TS]

01:43:42 ◼   ► will work out like book that's what's a be so you know I run this book price [TS]

01:43:46 ◼   ► comparison site called ISBN use my ongoing programming experiment running a [TS]

01:43:50 ◼   ► large like up high traffic sites millions of queries day people just a [TS]

01:43:55 ◼   ► punch and ISBN are you searching the book and it gives you price results from [TS]

01:43:58 ◼   ► a dozen 15 bookstores and what's fascinating to me is over time the [TS]

01:44:01 ◼   ► revenues going down because people don't price compare that much and most the [TS]

01:44:05 ◼   ► revenue used to be amazon was only like twenty-five percent of revenue now it's [TS]

01:44:08 ◼   ► like 75 percent because people come in they searched like a task at amazon i [TS]

01:44:13 ◼   ► mean that's kind of the result right and there was a point at which like most I [TS]

01:44:17 ◼   ► think the majority of my money comes from people doing textbook searches [TS]

01:44:20 ◼   ► because then you have more variety and diminish textbooks that salad there's [TS]

01:44:24 ◼   ► people about textbooks cost 1200 dollars i get go for eight percent of that I'm [TS]

01:44:28 ◼   ► lamprey but holy crap so I that so i get a lot of sales in you know in july [TS]

01:44:34 ◼   ► august in January basically kind of a funny pattern i have but it's been [TS]

01:44:38 ◼   ► interesting to watch it has been this gradual change as as Amazon is just [TS]

01:44:42 ◼   ► assumed to have the best price and as other stores like why would you buy I i [TS]

01:44:46 ◼   ► bought a bunch of dvds and blu-rays from barnes & noble few weeks ago because [TS]

01:44:50 ◼   ► they had a ridiculous sale they were doing forty to fifty percent off [TS]

01:44:53 ◼   ► everything already [TS]

01:44:54 ◼   ► then they had a thirty percent off coupon you can add with it and they have [TS]

01:44:57 ◼   ► free shipping so i bought stuff some things for seventy to eighty percent off [TS]

01:45:01 ◼   ► list primary off list price but I never buy from bn.com let me take one final [TS]

01:45:08 ◼   ► break here thank our third and final sponsor the show it is our old friends [TS]

01:45:11 ◼   ► at casper company that makes obsessively engineered mattresses at shockingly fair [TS]

01:45:16 ◼   ► prices i have recently been on vacation we stayed in two different hotels split [TS]

01:45:21 ◼   ► a little trip and one hotel had a in my opinion terrible mattress and I woke up [TS]

01:45:27 ◼   ► every day and I was a little miserable and then we immediately that second half [TS]

01:45:31 ◼   ► of the trip in a different hotel which had a terrific mattress and I sort of [TS]

01:45:35 ◼   ► thought of casper and I thought you know this because it's a lot of times if you [TS]

01:45:39 ◼   ► don't think about you don't get to compare one day after another what a [TS]

01:45:42 ◼   ► difference a great mattress can make i am one of those people who says hey you [TS]

01:45:47 ◼   ► really do sleep a third of your life [TS]

01:45:48 ◼   ► it's worth getting a great mattress and a good bed you spend so much time [TS]

01:45:53 ◼   ► and that you don't you probably spent more time in bed than you do anywhere [TS]

01:45:55 ◼   ► else [TS]

01:45:56 ◼   ► why not get a great one Casper has created terrific mattress they have an [TS]

01:46:01 ◼   ► engineering team in house that spent thousands of hours developing their [TS]

01:46:05 ◼   ► Casper mattress it combines spring latex and supportive memory phone for a sleep [TS]

01:46:10 ◼   ► surface with just the right sink and just the right balance i love the fact [TS]

01:46:14 ◼   ► that Casper just has one type of mattress [TS]

01:46:18 ◼   ► all you do is pick your size you just pick a size and that the mattress [TS]

01:46:21 ◼   ► because how would you pick like if they had like seven different types of [TS]

01:46:25 ◼   ► mattresses how would you pick [TS]

01:46:26 ◼   ► I don't know how to pick I just white trust that somebody who becomes a [TS]

01:46:31 ◼   ► mattress engineer is going to do the job for me right it's sort of like Apple in [TS]

01:46:35 ◼   ► that regard where they're going to just do that what design is design is making [TS]

01:46:39 ◼   ► choices [TS]

01:46:39 ◼   ► well Casper has figured out what they think is the best way to make a mattress [TS]

01:46:43 ◼   ► now maybe you disagree maybe you get it you don't like it well guess what they [TS]

01:46:47 ◼   ► have a hundred knight home trial so if you buy the thing take it up the steps [TS]

01:46:52 ◼   ► and it day by day vacuum seal these things ended the most ridiculously [TS]

01:46:56 ◼   ► little you cannot believe that there is like a queen or king-sized mattress in [TS]

01:46:59 ◼   ► one of these boxes get it you take it up in a room [TS]

01:47:02 ◼   ► follow the directions sucks all the air out of the room to fill it up and all of [TS]

01:47:06 ◼   ► a sudden you got his little box now you've got a queen or king-sized [TS]

01:47:09 ◼   ► mattress whatever you need [TS]

01:47:10 ◼   ► if you don't like it you have a hundred knights and if you don't you did you [TS]

01:47:14 ◼   ► just go to the website and say I'd take my mattress back they give you all your [TS]

01:47:17 ◼   ► money back and they take care of the hassle getting the mattress at your [TS]

01:47:21 ◼   ► house date that's how confident they are and how few people actually take him up [TS]

01:47:26 ◼   ► on it so if you have any reluctance to buy a mattress online because you [TS]

01:47:30 ◼   ► haven't actually SAT there in a gross showroom or other people have laid on [TS]

01:47:34 ◼   ► the same mattress and and poked at it before you don't worry about you can't [TS]

01:47:38 ◼   ► lose [TS]

01:47:39 ◼   ► I have heard from readers a lot of readers it is the craziest thing in the [TS]

01:47:43 ◼   ► world to me that I have become its black a spokesperson from mattress company [TS]

01:47:46 ◼   ► among the many things I never thought I would ever do in life is sell mattresses [TS]

01:47:50 ◼   ► but I it's so funny to me but readers write to me and say you know I i just [TS]

01:47:56 ◼   ► moved how to get into mattress and I got one of the Casper things I you know an [TS]

01:48:00 ◼   ► expected that they would send it back or whatever they're like this is great this [TS]

01:48:03 ◼   ► is like staying in like the best hotel it is a great mattress [TS]

01:48:06 ◼   ► so get yours today go to Casper calm / the talkshow Casper see sper / the [TS]

01:48:13 ◼   ► talkshow use the code the talk show with the and you say fifty bucks on your [TS]

01:48:18 ◼   ► mattress and the prices are great [TS]

01:48:20 ◼   ► it's 750 for full 854 Queen 954 king a king size mattress for 950 you save [TS]

01:48:26 ◼   ► fifty nine hundred bucks at most stores that's like two grand really is that's [TS]

01:48:30 ◼   ► how much expensive mattresses are so go to Casper calm / the talk show the next [TS]

01:48:34 ◼   ► time you need a mattress and maybe consider the fact that maybe you do need [TS]

01:48:38 ◼   ► a mattress i want to do the experiment like with mementos of pepsi's where they [TS]

01:48:42 ◼   ► open a bunch of casper mattresses in a room and you have all the air is sucked [TS]

01:48:46 ◼   ► out of the windows popular i want to see if people can't people can't breathe I [TS]

01:48:52 ◼   ► can't breathe [TS]

01:48:53 ◼   ► Casper last thing on my agenda for the show was this issue where is this guy [TS]

01:49:00 ◼   ► Milo United pronounce his name gianopolous any anomalous believe [TS]

01:49:05 ◼   ► Indianapolis sort of a conservative agitator / political columnist i'm not [TS]

01:49:12 ◼   ► quite sure how to describe for people who aren't in there with them is the [TS]

01:49:15 ◼   ► very six very very successful troll yeah very success charming in a way that only [TS]

01:49:24 ◼   ► people with an English accent can never get away with well-being [TS]

01:49:27 ◼   ► he's he's a younger Boris Johnson for people into politics longer with Napster [TS]

01:49:33 ◼   ► reports and this relates to what you were talking about before where there is [TS]

01:49:37 ◼   ► some subset of a is a participant in in this new subculture called the alt right [TS]

01:49:43 ◼   ► which is you know I don't want to get too much into politics of it but there [TS]

01:49:51 ◼   ► is a subset of this movement and of the Internet at large that is above all the [TS]

01:49:59 ◼   ► things in the world to be upset about very downright angry that the [TS]

01:50:04 ◼   ► Ghostbusters reboot it features an all-women cast of ghostbusters that the [TS]

01:50:11 ◼   ► the people actually busting ghosts are for women when in the original movie is [TS]

01:50:18 ◼   ► there were format [TS]

01:50:19 ◼   ► and they're very upset about this and I don't really know why it seems very [TS]

01:50:24 ◼   ► strange to me i had I you know the people to me this is a sign that these [TS]

01:50:30 ◼   ► people have some very I I think if you're upset that Ghostbusters is now [TS]

01:50:35 ◼   ► all women it is a very good sign that you have some very significant issues [TS]

01:50:40 ◼   ► with women [TS]

01:50:42 ◼   ► well this guy i think i'm being fair here somehow a week ago Leslie Jones [TS]