00:00:02 ◼ ► Take command but it will take you three hours to figure out what that command actually is. [TS]
00:00:11 ◼ ► Follow suit as I said that I was like oh God that sounded a lot like the prom just the way you said it I know. [TS]
00:00:19 ◼ ► All right let's do that again. You see I want to do a little bit of follow up follow not to do that again. [TS]
00:00:23 ◼ ► Got was the worst All right something else talk don't don't phrase it as a question Casey. Let's do some follow up. [TS]
00:00:32 ◼ ► Johnny's of smart anyway so let's talk about across the road and purchases in top grossing lists [TS]
00:00:40 ◼ ► and I'm not sure which one of you put that's in the show notes but it was not me it was me. [TS]
00:00:45 ◼ ► We're talking about the financial prospects across the road indirectly talking about the financial prospects and Joe F. [TS]
00:00:51 ◼ ► Two it was one of first people to tweet that we're looking at a top grossing lists. [TS]
00:00:55 ◼ ► He says those ads won't show up as part of the top grossing only in out purchases well [TS]
00:01:04 ◼ ► and not ads to ramp alliances them I don't know if you did like Popeye ads that would contribute to top grossing But [TS]
00:01:11 ◼ ► certainly if you're getting paid through a third party for the ads in your thing that have all contributed. [TS]
00:01:18 ◼ ► Well it's interesting that Apple doesn't as far as I know asked for a thirty percent cut of ads that you run that are [TS]
00:01:26 ◼ ► He actually kind of surprise they allow that at all I think the only reason they do is because people were doing ads in [TS]
00:01:35 ◼ ► and I think Apple's doesn't really care that much about I had to really force that to be the case [TS]
00:01:41 ◼ ► but yeah it is kind of weird like you can't do a third party credit card processing thing for purchase [TS]
00:01:55 ◼ ► and then would you like to talk about our friend of the show Steve Leung. What he had to tell us. [TS]
00:02:01 ◼ ► Yes Shortly after we recorded last week's show we talked a lot of our crosser oddness Montenegran strategy the game has [TS]
00:02:11 ◼ ► and Steve wrote in with one aspect of that if you could buy they call a coin double [TS]
00:02:16 ◼ ► or you get your earned coins at a faster rate and you get a bonus one thousand coins for three ninety nine. [TS]
00:02:23 ◼ ► That's buying the piggy bank so there is something that doesn't change the game play [TS]
00:02:28 ◼ ► and you know sort of getting an extra life or walking on water or a slowing down time when the train is coming [TS]
00:02:32 ◼ ► or is like that it changes the monetization changes parts of the game that are part of monetization So [TS]
00:02:39 ◼ ► when I saw This Is It OK this is you know this is like a power up earn coins faster right. [TS]
00:02:47 ◼ ► You just you know using them to get more chances at the gumball machine to get you characters [TS]
00:02:53 ◼ ► and that's one thing we didn't mention Alaska speaking of the characters is that the gumball machine is random [TS]
00:02:57 ◼ ► and it doesn't care like any gumball machine doesn't care what things you already have. [TS]
00:03:06 ◼ ► You know like you know you get another crazy old Ben for the fifteenth time so it's not like you're going to inevitably [TS]
00:03:14 ◼ ► and all the characters some of them may be purchased only that there's a bunch of new characters that added a thing [TS]
00:03:23 ◼ ► and at the end of that time that you buy at a discounted rate all sorts of new things are showing up an update to the [TS]
00:03:28 ◼ ► thing they had they're further emphasizing the the thing that was always there I think a little share she'd let you [TS]
00:03:39 ◼ ► or didn't exist before I certainly didn't even know existed for it I'm not looking for a Share button [TS]
00:03:43 ◼ ► and now it's more in my face and not only do I see it in the game but I see things that other people post. [TS]
00:03:52 ◼ ► and is moving more towards things that are slightly more aggressive about getting you to buy. [TS]
00:04:01 ◼ ► and I don't think that's because the developer is desperate for money because all of these things are still pretty mild [TS]
00:04:08 ◼ ► in the grand scheme of things they're not there they're not punitive it's still entirely you know for fun [TS]
00:04:19 ◼ ► You know even with the coin door but nothing affects the actual game which is avoiding being hit by cars [TS]
00:04:30 ◼ ► but I'm pretty confident now especially with ingress your climb the charts that they're doing just fine with this game. [TS]
00:04:36 ◼ ► Yeah in fact I mean it's been a pretty big difference so in I would say the changes they're making are working to bring [TS]
00:04:43 ◼ ► them more money because they've made a pretty large jump in the top grossing chart since last week like [TS]
00:04:49 ◼ ► when we were talking they were somewhere around the two hundred range of top grossing [TS]
00:04:55 ◼ ► So they whatever they're doing you know changes are making are working to bring them in more money that's more personal [TS]
00:05:03 ◼ ► I don't know the timing though I don't know if they started climbing the charts before [TS]
00:05:05 ◼ ► or after they rolled out these changes I don't know the specifics so it could just be you know gaining traction from [TS]
00:05:10 ◼ ► word of mouth and you know it's hard to say I know it's still a good game is still trying it out. [TS]
00:05:18 ◼ ► and cover an M Earlier you know that you for continuing to move your score forward to pastors I just I just stopped [TS]
00:05:27 ◼ ► moving and for once I became the number one in my game central aside my son's garbage Asian store [TS]
00:05:35 ◼ ► My score as depressing as I was trying to be Jason's girl I got you know I couldn't get him to accept my son's friend [TS]
00:05:42 ◼ ► requests so that I can maybe demonic something that someone who is who are you know would be about as some like to beat [TS]
00:05:48 ◼ ► And this girl was like one ninety three and I got one ninety one and I had that for a while [TS]
00:05:52 ◼ ► and then I want I need to have that for a while and there's nothing worse than than seeing yourself die [TS]
00:06:00 ◼ ► Pop away from tie into heart and and then eventually got to sixteen and I'm depressed to sixteen because [TS]
00:06:06 ◼ ► when I got to sixteen my death a super stupid I just got I was just so happy that I had one I was like OK now I don't [TS]
00:06:21 ◼ ► Yeah whatever I thought and tried that one but I am enjoying cross the road more than I probably should. [TS]
00:06:25 ◼ ► That is a good game so we should probably talk about what Daniel jacket said about push notification spam filtering [TS]
00:06:32 ◼ ► Marco did you get a chance to read this earlier today. I read this ten minutes ago yet so what. [TS]
00:06:38 ◼ ► and what Daniel was kind of replying to was what especially mark of a talked about with regard to push notification [TS]
00:06:46 ◼ ► spam and and how the three of us really didn't come up with a terribly awesome way for Apple to filter the spam [TS]
00:06:56 ◼ ► and so one of the things we talked about was well maybe we could they could in list users to to help filter the spam [TS]
00:07:03 ◼ ► and notify apple of it and so did you an interesting point I'm going to read from this post on the show notes. [TS]
00:07:09 ◼ ► Apple can still use its unique role as the Creator of All Things I was to devise a system through which they would [TS]
00:07:14 ◼ ► themselves be virtually subscribed to all unremarkable notifications from a particular apps developer. [TS]
00:07:20 ◼ ► Think about the worst of the patient's name you've seen in my experience it's not super personalized In fact it's [TS]
00:07:24 ◼ ► liable to be in use meant to keep using the app to dance in a game to become more engaged. [TS]
00:07:29 ◼ ► Cetera I think Apple would collect a ton of useful information about spammy developers if they simply arranged that [TS]
00:07:34 ◼ ► every app on this app store is capable of sending push notifications included among its list of registered devices. [TS]
00:07:40 ◼ ► A pseudo device in Cupertino whose sole purpose was to receive notification scan for spammy keywords apply Beason [TS]
00:07:48 ◼ ► and flag questionable questionable developers I think is a really good idea that seems like the hardest crap to put [TS]
00:07:55 ◼ ► together but it is a very interesting point I mean when you are in control of the entire ecosystem. [TS]
00:08:00 ◼ ► You probably can get away with doing something like that but and I was curious to hear what you guys thought. [TS]
00:08:06 ◼ ► You know so early in the post is like one of the problems is they can just run these kind of filter server side because [TS]
00:08:14 ◼ ► So in order to see the content of a message you have to be one of the recipients of the message. [TS]
00:08:31 ◼ ► but The server on the other side has a degree and you're sending a Jason dictionary. [TS]
00:08:41 ◼ ► You know that that intrusion is happening after it gets into Apple's hands so it's a Didn't sumption early on is [TS]
00:08:47 ◼ ► actually not correct that they could be doing the server side if they wanted to without have been like at this big sort [TS]
00:09:02 ◼ ► For instance developers could start using different schemes or friends in the background [TS]
00:09:07 ◼ ► or refreshed you can just send whatever you want as the payload of a silent notification for back and refresh. [TS]
00:09:15 ◼ ► That doesn't show anything in text to the user then you can have your app generate a local notification based on [TS]
00:09:21 ◼ ► whatever you want that says whatever you want from that. That's actually how I said all of mine. [TS]
00:09:25 ◼ ► All everyday every overpass notification is Message List it is a content available out of acacia [TS]
00:09:40 ◼ ► So all of the text that is being shown to the user input on a vacation is not going through Apple servers [TS]
00:09:51 ◼ ► and of course you know developers would very quickly work around this kind of system if it was in place they would you [TS]
00:10:03 ◼ ► and you cut them with a custom scheme with the app or whatever so that that method wouldn't entirely work. [TS]
00:10:12 ◼ ► and what would actually be a prerequisite to having the kind of set up it all is if Apple cared. [TS]
00:10:20 ◼ ► That's the biggest problem here is that it really really seems like Apple doesn't care about this problem by their [TS]
00:10:25 ◼ ► complete inaction and complete seeming seeming inability and unwillingness to enforce this rule [TS]
00:10:40 ◼ ► when Apple thinks something is a problem it tends to get attention it tends to get addressed. [TS]
00:10:45 ◼ ► when Apple you know Apple has kind of this tunnel vision sometimes where whatever they care about whatever the hot [TS]
00:11:02 ◼ ► and I think this is one of those things where like like this is an area of the App Store that they just don't care [TS]
00:11:08 ◼ ► about like much of the App Store honestly I mean most of the after does not see rapid change the policies sure don't [TS]
00:11:15 ◼ ► and I think it is very clear this is a problem this is a problem to two dicks like us [TS]
00:11:25 ◼ ► but Apple does not think this is a problem because if they thought it was a problem they would be doing more to enforce [TS]
00:11:31 ◼ ► And they're not I think of another reason why Java pro solution ignoring encryption ignoring fake looking for good [TS]
00:11:38 ◼ ► stuff like that even if all the old workarounds didn't exist you would still this would still require Apple to do two [TS]
00:11:49 ◼ ► and one thing that very good at the thing they don't like to do is this will require them to essentially log all person [TS]
00:12:00 ◼ ► Way so that you could verify that they were sent for some you know they're at the store some window of time [TS]
00:12:04 ◼ ► and the reason they're out to store them is because the second thing that I don't think they'd be very good at is [TS]
00:12:09 ◼ ► figuring out of something is in violation of the guidelines by looking at the content. [TS]
00:12:14 ◼ ► Computer wise you know spam detection and to do that well it's not easy to do that well [TS]
00:12:21 ◼ ► and do it fast at the same time so I think a wash of all the traffic as it goes by categorize it as spam or not spam [TS]
00:12:27 ◼ ► and then discard it because what if they got it wrong and they want to retrain their fellows [TS]
00:12:31 ◼ ► or whatever so it had to be stored for some period of time. So you know is a good man the middle everything. [TS]
00:12:36 ◼ ► Decrypt everything because they control the key servers and all those other stuff like undo all their And [TS]
00:12:45 ◼ ► and by the way simulate user activity so that you get the push notifications that are that are in response to you using [TS]
00:12:52 ◼ ► or having used it within a certain time have you know all the you have to do a hell of a lot to make a fake thing that [TS]
00:13:08 ◼ ► and that's hard for humans to do I mean Apple viewers can even determine if a map of the legitimate come in you're [TS]
00:13:13 ◼ ► expecting a computer in a few milliseconds to figure out if a push notification is in violation of the no promotions [TS]
00:13:19 ◼ ► rule. So that's why I keep going back to the only solution to this has to involve some kind of reporting by recipients. [TS]
00:13:29 ◼ ► You know I have received the spam personification report this application or disable notifications [TS]
00:13:36 ◼ ► and maybe you know I was trying to think of all less intrusive you eyes for doing this. [TS]
00:13:41 ◼ ► That wouldn't bother regular people maybe when you turn off push notifications for an app. [TS]
00:13:50 ◼ ► or if it's a new push notification recently like within the past five minutes I'm ask you Are you disable notifications [TS]
00:14:00 ◼ ► Like some kind of thing like that that only some nerd will see the heavily gated on the the thing that we all do which [TS]
00:14:07 ◼ ► is something sends you notification you realize you forgot to turn off you merely go to system to system preferences [TS]
00:14:12 ◼ ► for that hole they call an Iowa settings and figure I kind of can make them both places [TS]
00:14:19 ◼ ► and you immediately go to turn it off and you know that I was going to take that sort of pattern [TS]
00:14:24 ◼ ► and can throw up something that you know kind of like those annoying unsubscribe things like your successor into [TS]
00:14:29 ◼ ► scribed uns is crap because you never answer the questions well if you're angry because something you spam. [TS]
00:14:36 ◼ ► Tap the little thing that says yeah I just disabled because I me an ad or something or was I going to add [TS]
00:14:41 ◼ ► and I have tons of false positives and people are saying really are not occasions period [TS]
00:14:45 ◼ ► but the volume of hundreds of millions of miles uses enough that you know they could do these in grass [TS]
00:14:57 ◼ ► and you know you know the type you talk about is what I show. Apple has all the power here. [TS]
00:15:04 ◼ ► but they're not powerless to you know all they have to do like Margaret said it care about it a little bit [TS]
00:15:20 ◼ ► and their volumes will make it such that will become super clear what the popular app that is spamming people is you're [TS]
00:15:25 ◼ ► never going to get the obscure app that spank you look at Seven people have installed [TS]
00:15:28 ◼ ► but you'll get the popular app that span people and then you send them a nice little note [TS]
00:15:36 ◼ ► and if they don't they're out of the store it's just you know having having such incredible power of everything within [TS]
00:15:47 ◼ ► Oh yeah I mean this is as we get into the after discussion I'm sure I'll bring this up again [TS]
00:15:51 ◼ ► but there are so many areas in which they could use us for good for example the way the new Twitter app scans your old [TS]
00:16:13 ◼ ► People I generally expect because the way our west works in most ways is that apps are sandbox [TS]
00:16:21 ◼ ► and can't read data from other apps they can't even see other apps they can't even tell what you have installed. [TS]
00:16:26 ◼ ► Conceptually at least in practice there are two ways to tell if you have an app installed. [TS]
00:16:38 ◼ ► and the second is there's a low level some kind of such control function somewhat I don't know which one it is [TS]
00:16:49 ◼ ► and so if you are if you pull that list you know on a regular basis the chances are you're going to catch a lot of apps [TS]
00:16:57 ◼ ► And so you will eventually build up a list of what I have installed based on the process names that function. [TS]
00:17:03 ◼ ► I'm not sure there's a good reason for that to just an I O. S. or Two to return valid data. [TS]
00:17:10 ◼ ► It wouldn't surprise me if in the future similar to the way that Apple basically removed the MAC address access from [TS]
00:17:17 ◼ ► those low level system calls in Iowa I think seven that where they call is still there you can call it that is it just [TS]
00:17:25 ◼ ► returns all zeros for a MAC address now so much of that I don't think there's a reason why I O. S. [TS]
00:17:32 ◼ ► Needs this function to return valid process names to it to the app that's calling it. There's no ex P.C. [TS]
00:17:39 ◼ ► That African trolled or anything like that so I there's a good reason please let us know. Once that's not out as works. [TS]
00:17:50 ◼ ► But so I think privacy wise that's because like I think Apple should care about this problem because the IDE in the [TS]
00:18:00 ◼ ► Private information personal information that any one app shouldn't be able to get a list of apps in your from your all [TS]
00:18:08 ◼ ► So some apps they have your own schemes in place for various workflow things you know there's various reasons why you [TS]
00:18:17 ◼ ► and if you're going to do that I guess it there's no real way around that around your app being discovered on the other [TS]
00:18:25 ◼ ► hand is a lot of us that you're all schemes in place for other reasons like some a lot S.T.K. [TS]
00:18:35 ◼ ► or component of your app requires some kind of work around like where it kicks you to some other app you sign in [TS]
00:18:41 ◼ ► and it takes you back to back to your app and so you have to have your ask you to make that work [TS]
00:18:45 ◼ ► and so a lot of apps have you're asking that really aren't using them for any other purpose besides that sort of thing. [TS]
00:18:55 ◼ ► So I would actually suggest and I say this as one of the designers of X. Callback your L. [TS]
00:19:04 ◼ ► and remove later after that I think there are better ways around that problem that they've designed and I was eight. [TS]
00:19:10 ◼ ► If Apple's if Apple seems to think that it's OK for apps to have a list of ten thousand known your all schemes [TS]
00:19:18 ◼ ► and advertise to you based on that which is what they're coming from permitting Twitter to do. [TS]
00:19:24 ◼ ► and that's going to be in every analytics package in every every scam e ad package for I O. S. [TS]
00:19:31 ◼ ► and It's going to become very standard practice for apps to spy on your other apps [TS]
00:19:43 ◼ ► Schemes become dramatically less necessary with Iowa State may be the way forward is not to have them to remove that [TS]
00:19:53 ◼ ► Secondarily Apple could just have a rule that they actually enforce that says you can't collect lists of apps from the. [TS]
00:20:00 ◼ ► A device and Sunday a service like that could just be your rule. They don't seem to care though. [TS]
00:20:06 ◼ ► Don't you get the feeling like again we have no visibility into whether anyone is actually thinking so we don't have to [TS]
00:20:11 ◼ ► Void information but that like this is tiered system in terms of developers externally you're all the same [TS]
00:20:21 ◼ ► If the Twitter app starts doing something spammy Apple's reaction I would imagine is not to send a generic email from [TS]
00:20:31 ◼ ► some person that says your apps going to be pulled into two weeks if you don't stop doing this like what they do to [TS]
00:20:36 ◼ ► Instead someone at much higher level has a nice friendly phone call or someone higher level in Twitter [TS]
00:20:42 ◼ ► and they have a discussion because Twitter one of they going to do pull the Twitter app. [TS]
00:20:45 ◼ ► I mean yeah Benchley they would if there was some sort of actual disagreement I totally believe they would pull the [TS]
00:20:52 ◼ ► when you're Twitter I mean another pulled path for applying all your contacts and everything. [TS]
00:20:58 ◼ ► and Like I mean they're nice to everybody like they're it's not like they're mean to other people [TS]
00:21:04 ◼ ► but I just get the feeling based on nothing other than seeing their actions externally without knowing what's going on [TS]
00:21:12 ◼ ► and maybe hearing a little bit about sort of the the treatment in who gets picked to you know come two weeks early [TS]
00:21:21 ◼ ► Not every not every developer three the same and I think this is appropriate in general [TS]
00:21:25 ◼ ► but it goes against the sort of egalitarianism idealistic story of the App Store where you know anybody can play in all [TS]
00:21:34 ◼ ► Doesn't seem like from the outside that it's quite the same for everybody so I don't have. [TS]
00:21:39 ◼ ► For all we know Apple has already talking Twitter and say we really prefer you not to get a list of apps. [TS]
00:21:45 ◼ ► It's not like we're going to play you from the store we know you have schedules just tell us that the next version [TS]
00:21:49 ◼ ► you'll fix this and give us a rough timeline will say OK and we won't say anything about it publicly [TS]
00:21:56 ◼ ► It's only plausible to me that that could be happening inside Apple but of course we don't know. [TS]
00:22:04 ◼ ► We do know that we are sponsored this week by a new sponsor it is Oscar Oscar is a new kind of health insurance company. [TS]
00:22:11 ◼ ► They use technology to guide you to better care it's at high Oscar dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]
00:22:21 ◼ ► So most health insurers have you know other big corporation that their primary customers not individuals [TS]
00:22:26 ◼ ► and families and it really shows asker only offers plans for individuals and families. [TS]
00:22:39 ◼ ► and simple buying health insurance for yourself is a pretty intimidating process I've gone through it myself a number [TS]
00:22:46 ◼ ► Some of it should be for the Affordable Care Act And then we tell you that was terrifying because before there were all [TS]
00:22:53 ◼ ► these all these risks that you would take that aren't there anymore where it's like you have to understand all these [TS]
00:23:09 ◼ ► and everything Oscar makes it as easy as possible Oscar. They have these clear honest language around their plans. [TS]
00:23:16 ◼ ► There's only a few plans to choose from and they're all pretty much the same plan just like how much do you want. [TS]
00:23:21 ◼ ► And they had this beautifully designed website that's easy to use full of information and very very clear. [TS]
00:23:27 ◼ ► You would not believe how they had other health insurance Web sites are lets you use them in which case you know what [TS]
00:23:37 ◼ ► or email which again is extremely unusual for health insurance companies after plans include benefits like free [TS]
00:23:45 ◼ ► checkups some free generic drugs free primary care doctor visits specialist referrals you want to get a referral first [TS]
00:23:53 ◼ ► huge time saver but the coolest benefit that they have I think they have a twenty four seven doctor on call service. [TS]
00:24:04 ◼ ► and a board certified practitioner will call you in a few minutes who can help you with many questions [TS]
00:24:09 ◼ ► and ailments right over the phone and they can even issue common prescriptions already over the phone. [TS]
00:24:14 ◼ ► And that service is free there's no co-pay there's no limit that's services free for Oscar members you can get twenty [TS]
00:24:22 ◼ ► I think credible starting in January OS remembers to receive credit of up to two hundred forty dollars a year for [TS]
00:24:28 ◼ ► reaching daily walking goals these goals are tailored to you based on your previous level of activity. [TS]
00:24:35 ◼ ► and then you track your progress write in their app whether you're entirely healthy or you [TS]
00:24:40 ◼ ► or someone in your family has a complicated medical condition Oscar's plans will cover you. [TS]
00:24:44 ◼ ► You can buy their insurance through the new health insurance marketplaces if you're in most of northern New Jersey [TS]
00:24:48 ◼ ► or the parts of New York that are in or around the city like Westchester Rockland Suffolk Nassau. [TS]
00:24:54 ◼ ► So check their website to see if they cover you. Again it's most of northern New Jersey and metro New York. [TS]
00:25:02 ◼ ► and what you just type in zip code you can get a chord like two seconds you type in the keys of your age basically [TS]
00:25:09 ◼ ► Because the way the health care marketplaces work you can only sign up from now through February so hurry up to your [TS]
00:25:15 ◼ ► deadline so if you sign up in the next couple days by December fifteenth you can get insurance for January first. [TS]
00:25:21 ◼ ► If you sent by January fifteenth of insurance for February first hurry up if you're into this this is not the kind of [TS]
00:25:29 ◼ ► If you need to buy health insurance for yourself and or your family this is a great way to do it. [TS]
00:25:33 ◼ ► Ask her in a novel approach to an industry that hasn't been innovative in decades to learn more about their plans [TS]
00:25:38 ◼ ► or to get a quote. Visit high Oscar dot com slash A.T.P. or Call they have a special numbers for A.T.P. [TS]
00:25:49 ◼ ► So thanks a lot to ask you for sponsoring our show man buying health insurance does suck [TS]
00:25:53 ◼ ► and it sucks even if you're employed at a regular job like John and I are still a pain in the butt. [TS]
00:26:00 ◼ ► You know so the self employed thing is definitely more difficult and usually more expensive. [TS]
00:26:09 ◼ ► or no choice so you don't get to shop around you know. What if I like the Oscar and think it's awesome. [TS]
00:26:14 ◼ ► Well tough luck you can you know you can't forego the employer funded one because it's always so much cheaper because [TS]
00:26:20 ◼ ► they contribute some money to it but you have so few choices you could grow your job. [TS]
00:26:28 ◼ ► All right so anyway so we're still not happy with the App Store are we mark or I thought we were past all this. [TS]
00:26:37 ◼ ► You know there were there was a time when the App Store first came out and over the first couple of years it was out. [TS]
00:26:43 ◼ ► We had a bunch of bumpy rejections from Apple figuring out its policy developers figure out what Apple wanted Apple at [TS]
00:26:50 ◼ ► first being pretty bad about communicating their policies and then later getting less bad at it. [TS]
00:26:57 ◼ ► Overall I support preview and overall I think it has benefited customers and developers and Apple [TS]
00:27:05 ◼ ► but there are still these dark patches and there are still a times when it seems like Apple is a little bit too. [TS]
00:27:22 ◼ ► or overreaching in their rule enforcement in a way that doesn't seem to benefit anybody [TS]
00:27:27 ◼ ► and possibly even including Apple that like they're not they're not soon looking out for any kind of clear user benefit. [TS]
00:27:35 ◼ ► They're not like there's no major reason why this that we can see why Apple needs to enforce certain rules [TS]
00:27:42 ◼ ► or want to enforce certain rules. And there are a lot of rules they enforce that are unwritten. [TS]
00:27:50 ◼ ► One of them is that that's going on now with or any notification center widgets and there seems to be this disconnect. [TS]
00:27:56 ◼ ► These are two different parts of Apple two very very distantly. Separated parts of Apple. [TS]
00:28:01 ◼ ► So I want to do you have Craig Federighi and his organization making the software and making the S T k's [TS]
00:28:14 ◼ ► and all part of Alpha relations including after review are all very deeply infill Schiller's organization. [TS]
00:28:26 ◼ ► We've seen some speculation over the last couple days from a couple of blogs in fact I'm a protector remember Ben [TS]
00:28:40 ◼ ► and I highly recommend you daily updates they're extremely good he is one of the smartest writers on our business right [TS]
00:28:46 ◼ ► and he wrote one today saying you know saying along with a few others in the scene recently that it sure seems like maybe [TS]
00:28:53 ◼ ► there's some friction here between Schiller's organization and Federal Reserve's ation [TS]
00:29:00 ◼ ► but I think looking from the outside it does certainly seem like these two different parts of Apple are not of the same [TS]
00:29:05 ◼ ► page on everything and something something is going wrong there is some kind of friction or communication breakdown [TS]
00:29:11 ◼ ► or different priorities something is going wrong there because we have the massive you know as we said this past summer [TS]
00:29:20 ◼ ► The massive love letter to developers Apple basically had this this past summer saying look at all this great new stuff [TS]
00:29:26 ◼ ► all these walls were lifting all these things you thought we'd never do what we did I'm all these these things you [TS]
00:29:31 ◼ ► could never do now you can do them now months later after the stuff is out and in consumers' hands and the zero S. [TS]
00:29:48 ◼ ► and by the way it's also a third division is the asteroid a Tauriel team which is under eighty Q So so you have the people [TS]
00:30:03 ◼ ► and then the people making the policies of actually enforcing those rules those are all three different nations under [TS]
00:30:10 ◼ ► and who apparently have different viewpoints on things I don't know if you could say that the development is on is in [TS]
00:30:27 ◼ ► but engineering like their responsibility is in cooperation with whatever they're you know sort of product design thing [TS]
00:30:35 ◼ ► or you know who are resigning with price going to do engineering jobs to do it you know implement it [TS]
00:30:40 ◼ ► and maybe I don't know if the products on it under that umbrella but probably anyway they create the A.P. [TS]
00:30:44 ◼ ► Eyes and every A.P.I. They create there some expectation is like we're just going to make something possible. [TS]
00:30:52 ◼ ► But although you may be able to do a thing with these guys for example read all the contacts [TS]
00:31:01 ◼ ► or that you can do it like we're going to implement these features we're going to make them make features possible I [TS]
00:31:20 ◼ ► and that does not necessarily imply a conflict between Craig Federighi and the after you section of the organization. [TS]
00:31:27 ◼ ► I don't think he would say that he that is has his role to make those decisions because there are no decisions he's [TS]
00:31:32 ◼ ► there are features that they want developers to be able to add to their products that are made possible by his A.P.I. [TS]
00:31:38 ◼ ► As there are also things that people can do with the engineering side makes that are going to be against Aberdeen [TS]
00:31:47 ◼ ► and it goes about like well I showed this to an engineer in the know in the labs that you see [TS]
00:32:07 ◼ ► and the organization I think the the I think they were sure is the embarrassing lack of communication between editorial [TS]
00:32:18 ◼ ► and pulling it while it's on under Promotion like that's just the type of thing that should happen. [TS]
00:32:22 ◼ ► Those things communicate with each other better so there could be a conflict between [TS]
00:32:40 ◼ ► or a true engineers mindset of like you know all the Linux thing it was possible everyone should be allowed to do it [TS]
00:32:44 ◼ ► it's free and working for all the Apple mindset if it's possible and if we think about it [TS]
00:32:49 ◼ ► and we can't think of a reason to stop it then it should be possible it's oh it's probably true that if you were to [TS]
00:32:55 ◼ ► poll the entire organization the vast majority of the people who work in engineering an apple would say yes that should [TS]
00:33:00 ◼ ► be possible No I would never pull the peek out you know thing for bringing how good today view [TS]
00:33:06 ◼ ► but I'm hesitant to turn it into a vice president versus vice president internal turf war type battle. [TS]
00:33:17 ◼ ► I'm careful to say that it's one of the SEALs organizations I mean there's like we don't know if Schiller's involve [TS]
00:33:23 ◼ ► these decisions personally or Federighi is mad about these decisions personally or anything [TS]
00:33:27 ◼ ► but what we what we can clearly see is that these parts of Apple are are not working together correctly like [TS]
00:33:39 ◼ ► but do you think I don't know I think this is the correct working of engineering and have preview [TS]
00:33:46 ◼ ► Snap of you decide if the things developers are using them for are allowed our complaint is that after view is making [TS]
00:33:53 ◼ ► decisions that we don't agree with and they conflict with editorial. Yeah I am and I like that I could just. [TS]
00:34:04 ◼ ► and this is like this is coming at a particularly bad time for Apple because right now in this time you know late two [TS]
00:34:12 ◼ ► thousand and fourteen the last left always twenty fourteen at the Apple Watch is coming out soon. [TS]
00:34:18 ◼ ► I Pad sales are not that great is harder than ever to make money in the App Store and Android is a massive [TS]
00:34:25 ◼ ► and register released a major update the whole paper thing whatever they call material design all like the Edward five [TS]
00:34:35 ◼ ► So what we have is you know Apple is unfortunate all these rules they've been important to us for years [TS]
00:34:41 ◼ ► and then they have this this crazy position of power because there were really no other place to go if you wanted to [TS]
00:34:47 ◼ ► make any reasonable money developing atom and some people make money on Android you know it's possible to [TS]
00:34:53 ◼ ► but it's it's historically been harder you know as as hard you think it is I was to make money it's historically been [TS]
00:35:08 ◼ ► I don't think the willing time soon but it's a lot smaller than it's ever been before. [TS]
00:35:13 ◼ ► Meanwhile at the exact same time you have this you have the i Pad not doing particularly well you know relative to how [TS]
00:35:21 ◼ ► You have immense competition in the App Store that drives prices way way down it makes it very hard to make any money [TS]
00:35:35 ◼ ► and this is combining to make it a tougher sell than it previously has been to be an I O. S. [TS]
00:35:45 ◼ ► There's more work for you to do you have to do adaptive layout to make resizable life after that that ever ships like [TS]
00:35:52 ◼ ► we talked about before. So there's more more work to be like a current up to date responsible I was develop. [TS]
00:36:02 ◼ ► The alternative of Android development is less bad than it used to be relative to I was development [TS]
00:36:14 ◼ ► This is not a good time for Apple to add more reasons for developers to become disillusioned with the platform. [TS]
00:36:20 ◼ ► This is this is this is strategically a really terrible time for that because Apple needs fantastic developers to do [TS]
00:36:28 ◼ ► two big things forward it needs good developers to push the boundaries to make the i Pad a better general computer [TS]
00:36:34 ◼ ► device than it is and it needs developers to make great apps for this new watch coming out in the spring [TS]
00:36:41 ◼ ► There's always going to be more developers you can always say well there's more people waiting you know [TS]
00:36:46 ◼ ► when you go to leave more people come in so you can be a fresh batch and like entertainment history [TS]
00:36:57 ◼ ► and if you want the boundaries to be pushed if you want you know what Apple said in interviews you see they said a [TS]
00:37:06 ◼ ► We can't wait to see what you do with this stuff and then they see what we do with it [TS]
00:37:15 ◼ ► I mean they need good developers to push the boundaries and to make fantastic software that is sustainable [TS]
00:37:22 ◼ ► and that takes advantage of the platform and the pushes it and makes it useful for people [TS]
00:37:30 ◼ ► They need us right now more than their actions say the big things that are in conflict is not that engineers conflict [TS]
00:37:40 ◼ ► with any of the ninth inning parts but it's the broad trends with an apple in the sort of the post jobs there [TS]
00:37:46 ◼ ► or is that in the recent in the recent years especially in this most recent year twenty fourteen engineering [TS]
00:37:53 ◼ ► reorganization which as you know is gone through a lot of growing pains and change of leadership. [TS]
00:38:03 ◼ ► and all that stuff all that rejiggering has culminated in an engineering organization that like you said Marco [TS]
00:38:10 ◼ ► and my seven year view everything that engineer organization that does things that previously it had refused to do. [TS]
00:38:18 ◼ ► But there have been widely you know desired by their constituent developers and indirectly by their customers. [TS]
00:38:29 ◼ ► and as the result of all the I Have To You have to think it's a result of all these reorganization that whoever was [TS]
00:38:33 ◼ ► opposing this is either not in power not in the company anymore or lost an argument right. [TS]
00:38:38 ◼ ► And now suddenly engineering is doing things that are that are directly beneficial to developers [TS]
00:38:44 ◼ ► and indirectly beneficial so far to customers who fester as one of these things too. [TS]
00:38:49 ◼ ► Whereas after a view has not undergone as far as I know such an organizational change [TS]
00:38:55 ◼ ► and is instead acting the way it has always acted sort of in cycles where a lot of time it's dormant and sleeping [TS]
00:39:04 ◼ ► And we had the benefits of that you know it's gone cycles and why why is it awake now. Why sleeping other times. [TS]
00:39:13 ◼ ► but one thing you can say is it has not undergone the same friends a ration of the engineering organization has gone [TS]
00:39:21 ◼ ► and that it is not suddenly being more reasonable being more transparent and you know explaining itself better. [TS]
00:39:29 ◼ ► Like the only thing you can say for the average organization is that they have cut down on wait times that consistently [TS]
00:39:34 ◼ ► the trend has been you know don't have ridiculous wait times for the things with a few bumps in the road for like [TS]
00:39:43 ◼ ► Usually it's about a week still and it's it's you can you be able to say it's about a week for the last five years. [TS]
00:39:49 ◼ ► Right so I do overall trend like if you look at the entire history the App Store is that they have moved that metric to [TS]
00:39:54 ◼ ► be sort of better in a way the developers like and that indirectly benefits customers which is the same sort of yards. [TS]
00:40:03 ◼ ► when engineering is suddenly doing things that seem you know that ever orders that are noble [TS]
00:40:08 ◼ ► and doing them in a cautious way doing them good outweigh the making positive progress. [TS]
00:40:13 ◼ ► You know Iowa State is better for developers and Iowa seven was and back and so on [TS]
00:40:21 ◼ ► and I don't I'm not familiar with the internal organization of Africa or that side of the organization. [TS]
00:40:30 ◼ ► or a change in leadership that is the sort of parallels the engineering one I'm not aware of [TS]
00:40:36 ◼ ► and if it hasn't undergone that then that entire organization looks like it looks to me like a typical corporate [TS]
00:40:41 ◼ ► organization with people who are in power who are stubborn who are wrong and you can't be kind of right [TS]
00:40:49 ◼ ► and I'm your boss the end the other interesting thing to go back just a half step to where the market was saying is [TS]
00:40:56 ◼ ► that not only are developers feeling like we got a little bit of a bait and switch from W.D.C. [TS]
00:41:04 ◼ ► Because I believe Marco you did I know I wrote a blog post on the way back from D.C. [TS]
00:41:09 ◼ ► About how you know we finally got all the things we've been asking for we finally got all the things we wanted [TS]
00:41:14 ◼ ► and you know it's so I don't remember who it was that said it first but it's like Lucy and [TS]
00:41:20 ◼ ► and Charlie Brown with the football you know and so here it is we got all the things we want just getting And [TS]
00:41:28 ◼ ► But a lot of users that I speak to just regular people who are not developers they're getting more [TS]
00:41:35 ◼ ► and more frustrated with Apple two it started with Apple Maps being crap in Google Maps not being available [TS]
00:41:47 ◼ ► and people keep telling me how I was saying it is buggy and to be honest I haven't really had any particular issues. [TS]
00:41:53 ◼ ► But that being said it seems like a lot of people I know who used to be really into the wall. [TS]
00:42:06 ◼ ► Apple is the it is in a position where they really shouldn't be pissing off their developers not only for the developer [TS]
00:42:16 ◼ ► Do you see any do you have actual Any non geeky user friends who talk to you about applications I use I like that the [TS]
00:42:22 ◼ ► luster of Apple's on off are you talking about users who knows the transmit can send things to drive any no no no no [TS]
00:42:28 ◼ ► the former where the last year that it how it's always infallible they always were [TS]
00:42:33 ◼ ► but that luster goes in cycles too that's just a typical you know celebrity type build him up tear him down like I [TS]
00:42:38 ◼ ► don't I don't attach anything particular to that because the cycle for that is practically yearly at this point. [TS]
00:42:44 ◼ ► Yearly everybody loves Apple and yearly everybody hates it like it's beginning faster you know. Oh yeah. [TS]
00:42:57 ◼ ► and then they have to remove that feature because of Apple's policy after the fact that's why I was asking I was asking [TS]
00:43:08 ◼ ► or do people do the type of features they get removed in that way are they below the notice of people because you know [TS]
00:43:20 ◼ ► and maybe they really release notes I'm trying to think of it like a mass market example like the Facebook app could do [TS]
00:43:40 ◼ ► Everyone I know is furious about you not being able to send messages in the standard Facebook app anymore [TS]
00:43:48 ◼ ► and you have to download a different Facebook Messenger app in order to send messages. [TS]
00:43:54 ◼ ► and that blame landed on Facebook at all it was Facebook if they decide to split their own stuff out so whatever but. [TS]
00:44:00 ◼ ► Oh yeah I guess they would notice that because that is a that's a sort of cutting application half and into two pieces. [TS]
00:44:13 ◼ ► Like I mean I just may just be the people I come in contact. Not that big of a deal. [TS]
00:44:18 ◼ ► Like again a lot of these issues are magnified for us because of the circles we travel [TS]
00:44:23 ◼ ► and the apple is in its luster type thing is more likely a tertiary effect of what Barker was talking about where it's [TS]
00:44:30 ◼ ► like Apple needs developers to help drive its platform forward and developers are trying to drive it forward [TS]
00:44:37 ◼ ► and every time they go to you know take a step too far. Apple you know snaps the weapons as well. [TS]
00:44:41 ◼ ► We're not that far but I wanted to make that too useful like what we had to think about for six months or nine months [TS]
00:44:47 ◼ ► or we have something you really really think we could never ever do that so we're never going to let you do that. [TS]
00:44:52 ◼ ► It's like how do you you become gun shy you become you know sort of the many many articles [TS]
00:45:06 ◼ ► For a year and see how many people invested it for a year and get there and projected [TS]
00:45:10 ◼ ► and then maybe we'll get the lay of the land and sort of divine with chicken bones and other dice and stuff [TS]
00:45:19 ◼ ► and see it like it's making developers more cautious and really they should be blazing their way forward [TS]
00:45:24 ◼ ► and making apps that you know like like this to the you know the apps that Apple hasn't even thought of before. [TS]
00:45:30 ◼ ► Show us your amazing apps it's just like you get the feeling that some Apple executives mind they like make amazing [TS]
00:45:40 ◼ ► I have a picture in my mind of what an amazing i would be like I'm not going to tell you what the picture is. [TS]
00:45:49 ◼ ► and so like if if customers are going to notice anything it's going to be this multi-year delayed thing from developers [TS]
00:46:01 ◼ ► and all you need is you know I was thinking of him are going to brothers up like what does it take for some of the [TS]
00:46:09 ◼ ► subject or to take some of this I will screw this I'm going to under-developed friend right now. [TS]
00:46:14 ◼ ► and some structural issues probably need to be sorted out so they become less of a deterrent like for [TS]
00:46:26 ◼ ► and install base of the most recent version are a huge drag on switching over to Android because you had to wait for so [TS]
00:46:38 ◼ ► and then you have to deal with so many more devices you had to wait for some sort of consolidation [TS]
00:46:42 ◼ ► but even that is not nearly as bad as it used to be though like they did this crazy thing out of the crease details [TS]
00:46:51 ◼ ► Is together into the Google Play services which can self update I was thinking like hardware and patients [TS]
00:46:55 ◼ ► and the screen sizes and and C.P.U. and G.P.U. Combinations of again it's a problem for really just games. [TS]
00:47:02 ◼ ► Like for apps it's a lot less of a problem because you stop mattering as much for apps than the games. [TS]
00:47:08 ◼ ► but like the reason I'm not just thinking of games I'm thinking of as in terms of what kind of applications are going [TS]
00:47:13 ◼ ► to going to drive the platform forward and do amazing things and no one ever thought of [TS]
00:47:19 ◼ ► and it's easier as right now it's easier to make those on I.O.'s because you have a better idea of what you're going to [TS]
00:47:25 ◼ ► be aiming at and the installed base on a more recent version so you can do something amazing in advanced. [TS]
00:47:35 ◼ ► and try to do the same thing because that's what you don't want to happen is someone to come up with a new app idea [TS]
00:47:40 ◼ ► that hasn't existed I think Bit Torrent as an example because like planned bittorrent didn't exist [TS]
00:47:44 ◼ ► and someone came up with that idea and all our phones Russ's terrible idea to kill your battery [TS]
00:47:48 ◼ ► but there were some some time of application that does something that would not be allowed in the App Store. [TS]
00:48:03 ◼ ► and everybody's like well I would get an Apple phone but only Android has insert whatever this killer app is. [TS]
00:48:11 ◼ ► Like if Twitter came out today and was only available and your example didn't allow something. [TS]
00:48:16 ◼ ► Didn't know I guess I'm as access some crazy thing that you know whatever you don't want you don't want you you want to [TS]
00:48:22 ◼ ► have that app you want to have like even for something as stupid as flappy bird and even though I'm sure there was [TS]
00:48:26 ◼ ► and I enjoy doing everything right you want to be the platform where the great new thing happens [TS]
00:48:32 ◼ ► and you can't plan for the great new thing and you don't know where it's going to come from [TS]
00:48:38 ◼ ► But you do know the more you restrict your platform Dowell higher the chances of the thing will appear only someplace [TS]
00:48:46 ◼ ► when it has a lot to do with also who is using a platform you know like like so many in the chat pointed out it was Hi [TS]
00:48:52 ◼ ► and Chad pointed out like you know a lot of times the the gotta have it apps that are only on one platform a lot [TS]
00:49:00 ◼ ► and that's not because of technology limitations it's because the developer happened to use the platform [TS]
00:49:06 ◼ ► or the most early adopters are on that platform and for the most part that platform today is I lesson [TS]
00:49:11 ◼ ► and it has been I us for a while I think since I since the i Phone was launched it's been eyeless [TS]
00:49:20 ◼ ► Like Instagram launching I was first because that's what you did in two thousand and ten [TS]
00:49:34 ◼ ► and B i Phone only today because the expectation is patient gets higher every year that you should be on both of those [TS]
00:49:40 ◼ ► platforms the same time I would you know I'm still finding I wasn't because I'm just one guy on much ranting over the [TS]
00:49:45 ◼ ► world and make a billion dollars from Facebook stock but I can't I couldn't recommend to like a big V.C. [TS]
00:49:51 ◼ ► Back company want explosive growth I couldn't recommend to them that you go I only necessarily I think I think there's [TS]
00:50:00 ◼ ► Our time once you once you once you reach this point where we can say well you know you really should be looking at [TS]
00:50:05 ◼ ► those platforms it's only a matter of time before something big happens on Android first [TS]
00:50:12 ◼ ► and I don't think we're near that point yet I think we're still a few years off from that being very likely [TS]
00:50:17 ◼ ► but the direction we're going that will eventually happen and I don't think Apple really cares about that [TS]
00:50:24 ◼ ► or I don't I think they're in denial or I think they you know they don't think it will happen [TS]
00:50:29 ◼ ► or they don't think it will be very important and I think they're wrong on both of those they're making assumptions. [TS]
00:50:37 ◼ ► and it seems to be the strategies of our as you know kind of a game console analogy is that it got so out of consuls [TS]
00:50:47 ◼ ► One lever the one they can always turn is well just sell of the zillion for you know I was hardware devices right [TS]
00:50:53 ◼ ► because if we sell we need to keep selling those because if we don't all of those will be like Windows Phone [TS]
00:50:59 ◼ ► and we just need to maintain some kind of within some kind of striking distance of Android's market share so that [TS]
00:51:06 ◼ ► doesn't become that big of a deal because if Apple had fifteen percent market share wouldn't matter how awesome their [TS]
00:51:11 ◼ ► platform is one matter how permissive there are pretty good rules are they would be like Windows Phone. [TS]
00:51:15 ◼ ► Do I get a nice whatever you have some good developers you make some good apps but it's not enough. [TS]
00:51:22 ◼ ► and so far they've been doing pretty good on that so it's giving them giving them the room to to screw up an app [TS]
00:51:29 ◼ ► or view without as many consequences because just like well you know like it with Android no matter how annoying it is [TS]
00:51:35 ◼ ► and it has a massive market share that if you are going to be a one of the biggest companies in the world you have to [TS]
00:51:43 ◼ ► and if you just have to it's like the more they have to market you've got to you got to go do it. [TS]
00:51:47 ◼ ► Android is all apples only contender because it's got a lot of market share a big market share [TS]
00:51:53 ◼ ► and it's perceived as being better and having customers who are more willing to spend money and sort of work. [TS]
00:52:00 ◼ ► Pavel definitely has a larger share of the of the most desirable customers for most people right now [TS]
00:52:04 ◼ ► and they have for a while but I think I think the percentage share of that goes down every year for Apple. [TS]
00:52:11 ◼ ► I don't know that for sure I'm just guessing and I still think they have a pretty healthy lead [TS]
00:52:15 ◼ ► but again it's like if you look at at the at the sum of all of this of why somebody would develop for us only or first. [TS]
00:52:24 ◼ ► There used to be a lot of very strong reasons. There were a bunch of apps out there. [TS]
00:52:32 ◼ ► There was a bunch of money to be made potentially all the early adopters uses platform. [TS]
00:52:40 ◼ ► There are so many great things you can do only on this platform or easiest on this platform. [TS]
00:52:44 ◼ ► All those advantages or these motors of any distil exist today. All of them are weaker though than they used to be. [TS]
00:52:52 ◼ ► Every time Apple does it you know a chilling effect kind of thing we got that preview. [TS]
00:53:02 ◼ ► and again it's a slow progression not an you know no single one of these factors is like totally collapsing suddenly [TS]
00:53:12 ◼ ► and I just I fear that Apple is going to catch Apple by surprise if one data starts to be some spill over [TS]
00:53:33 ◼ ► and not a nihilist I don't think we're very far from far away from that happening. [TS]
00:53:37 ◼ ► I think that's to happen this coming year and and I don't know what happened after that [TS]
00:53:51 ◼ ► You think in the next year some on prom and developers are going to bail. Definitely. Yeah like who I don't think so. [TS]
00:54:00 ◼ ► I mean I think with the watch coming there's a lot that's a lot of the strike people are very you know that what would [TS]
00:54:05 ◼ ► that happen with the i Pad I remember like when ready for the i Pad came out was when the Nexus One came out [TS]
00:54:11 ◼ ► and a whole bunch eyeless developers were like oh man the Nexus One it's kind of interesting [TS]
00:54:16 ◼ ► and Google sent a bunch of them for free upset a lot of people including me I should disclose after the I wonder if I [TS]
00:54:22 ◼ ► should make a stripper's Web site work better on this maybe eventually I make an app for it someday and then Apple [TS]
00:54:27 ◼ ► and see I've had like a month later and then we all get attractive but I've had it for three years. [TS]
00:54:34 ◼ ► Maybe Apple's banking on that may be Apple's assuming that will happen with the watch. I'm not entirely sure it will. [TS]
00:54:41 ◼ ► I think first of all you know watch kit in year one is going to be pretty limited in what you can even do with it [TS]
00:54:47 ◼ ► and what kind of ads even make sense to have a watch App Not to mention if you think Apple is being you know [TS]
00:54:56 ◼ ► and capricious with the App Store rules with today widgets you haven't seen anything yet is we to watch comes out [TS]
00:55:02 ◼ ► and they start denying apps for that for things that we consider invalid or stupid reasons [TS]
00:55:10 ◼ ► Believe me there's going to be a lot of that going on it's like I'm I'm actually honestly a little [TS]
00:55:20 ◼ ► and you know they're going to see the stuff that Apple's pulling now with with the Iowa State things [TS]
00:55:26 ◼ ► and they get a look at this newest became the I would watch him like well should I really spend the next three months [TS]
00:55:34 ◼ ► and see how the market shakes out because we're going to see a whole bunch of app review B.S. [TS]
00:55:45 ◼ ► when the watch first comes out those big old wrestling he said with the i Pad if you're one of the first chapter [TS]
00:55:50 ◼ ► On the watch you get massive massive leg up on everybody else you always want to be there [TS]
00:56:00 ◼ ► So I don't think that's going to sway maybe it'll who think they have a shot at being there and knowledge maybe but [TS]
00:56:05 ◼ ► but but again though there's also there's not a whole lot you can do with the watch caps quite yet. [TS]
00:56:11 ◼ ► It doesn't matter you can charge ninety nine cents for your app that is watch integration [TS]
00:56:19 ◼ ► Well it's it's not really the country either right because you need to have a standalone app first in order to have a [TS]
00:56:26 ◼ ► watch Kid app in presumably many of the watch Kid apps will be built upon standalone apps that presumably you've [TS]
00:56:34 ◼ ► and most people are tweeting too I don't know in any case let's talk about something else that's really cool. [TS]
00:56:40 ◼ ► We are sponsored once again by Bakley our friends that are in the online backup business now let me tell you about [TS]
00:56:45 ◼ ► online backup. You need this. Your family needs this. Everyone you know needs this case you need this. [TS]
00:56:53 ◼ ► Let me tell you you need online backup it's amazing because there are so many catastrophes minor disasters problems [TS]
00:57:02 ◼ ► and any for any drives that are physically connected to it or the or the any drives that are in your house with it. [TS]
00:57:08 ◼ ► Things like fires floods power surges theft all sorts of problems that can happen that would take out your data with [TS]
00:57:16 ◼ ► even just like human error sometimes like that's you know there's there's a lot of human error you can do if your [TS]
00:57:29 ◼ ► when you go if you're visiting your family this holiday season if you see you know your parent or grandparent [TS]
00:57:35 ◼ ► or siblings computer without online backup give them the gift of installing back plays for them. [TS]
00:57:40 ◼ ► So I went back it was really really important to use junk words if you don't have it you're not you should really [TS]
00:57:52 ◼ ► and I have used it long before they were a sponsor of the show of using it for years I have tried two other ones. [TS]
00:58:00 ◼ ► Only and was very disappointed in both of them. From a network drive need Believe me back please is the one you want. [TS]
00:58:08 ◼ ► That place is unlimited and unthroned old and you get it for just five bucks a month. [TS]
00:58:13 ◼ ► So literally this unlimited disk space you know what or how much you have to combine between me [TS]
00:58:17 ◼ ► and tiff I think we have something like six terabytes now in back with a lot of unlimited disk space. [TS]
00:58:28 ◼ ► and share all your backup files so you can access your files on the go you can do single file restores if you want if [TS]
00:58:37 ◼ ► and you're on vacation somewhere you can get your files that way that plays runs natively on your mac. [TS]
00:58:42 ◼ ► It is not like a weird Java aberrated thing it's a native MacO S ten app founded by X. [TS]
00:58:52 ◼ ► They're always up to date with newest releases I've never had that please break on me with an upgrade. [TS]
00:58:57 ◼ ► There's no add ons no gimmicks there's no extra charge is really five bucks a month for unlimited on throttled fully [TS]
00:59:05 ◼ ► It really is the simplest on back a program to use just install and it does the rest so really this holiday season. [TS]
00:59:15 ◼ ► Maybe not immediately begin to wonder what you're doing immediately. Someday they will thank you for that. [TS]
00:59:26 ◼ ► There's always a it's like fall over that there's always going to be thoughts on the never ending pit of thoughts. [TS]
00:59:37 ◼ ► and they have done it before to smooth over the worst of these misfires by talking directly to the affected developers [TS]
00:59:49 ◼ ► and the worst thing that can happen is the best thing then that people come out of it happy. [TS]
00:59:54 ◼ ► We get the features we want to be Thursday everyone comes to have a prize of room walks away satisfied. [TS]
01:00:00 ◼ ► It doesn't address the structural problem which causes these bear attack flare ups from average you [TS]
01:00:06 ◼ ► and years so I don't know if we should just be hoping for a larger crisis which will become a crisis unity for us too [TS]
01:00:16 ◼ ► or we should be hoping for just for the the bad decisions to be averse and to go back to sleeping bear. [TS]
01:00:23 ◼ ► Yeah mostly I mean I don't know it's just it seems like such a silly problem to have but whatever. [TS]
01:00:30 ◼ ► For speaking of silly problems to have Let's talk about time commitments and I wanted to talk about a couple things. [TS]
01:00:38 ◼ ► First is fastest is not for sale anymore. What I pulled today. There goes your M three an hour right. [TS]
01:00:51 ◼ ► Now I pulled it for a handful of reasons and there's a point here but it's going to take me a second to get there. [TS]
01:01:03 ◼ ► I pulled it because I feel like I'm kind of kidding myself in thinking that I'm going to find the time to get it [TS]
01:01:16 ◼ ► updated for I was seven and given that we're already months into Iowa say that's kind of getting ridiculous. [TS]
01:01:24 ◼ ► I'm getting to the point that I'm feeling guilty every time I do see a sales day of more than zero which is most days [TS]
01:01:34 ◼ ► I'm getting guilt or I'm feeling guilty about selling someone something that's so dated [TS]
01:01:40 ◼ ► and knowing deep down in my heart of hearts that the likelihood of me updating it is not good. [TS]
01:01:55 ◼ ► and to be honest it deserves to be a joke it is kind of ridiculously funny and it's. [TS]
01:02:05 ◼ ► but in the end of the day it occurred to me that it's really serving no good purpose it served its purpose which was [TS]
01:02:23 ◼ ► and it's a little better on my phone because I've updated most of the issues for i OS seven and eight. [TS]
01:02:29 ◼ ► I saw the couple lingering bugs that I haven't had time to look at but and I was talking Aaron about it earlier today. [TS]
01:02:36 ◼ ► I don't I can't imagine a time when I'm going to look at her and now we're getting little into analog territory [TS]
01:02:42 ◼ ► but I can imagine a time when the look at her and say you know what rather than spending time with you [TS]
01:02:54 ◼ ► and decide that it's something you shouldn't do. But anyway why not just leave it there and be free. [TS]
01:02:59 ◼ ► I could but then it's still it's still going to be oh how are you still been updated to yet [TS]
01:03:05 ◼ ► and I'm just I'm over that because it's true and ridiculous like I'm grumpy about it I think because I know it's true. [TS]
01:03:14 ◼ ► Joke I still find that kind of funny because it's so hopefully not really true anymore. And so I've gotten past it. [TS]
01:03:22 ◼ ► You're more famous than I was now on about that but anyway. But but in this case it is true and and that's just it. [TS]
01:03:34 ◼ ► Have you done a lot of open source development or contributing to open source projects. [TS]
01:03:38 ◼ ► Not really I mean I have camel out on the on good hub which I actually want to talk about as well. [TS]
01:03:48 ◼ ► Mostly because the couple times I have been pigeon is an example which is the multi protocol I am client [TS]
01:04:01 ◼ ► and whatever you call it on the A D M We had that on the mac isn't the name of the Live Earth that was lit purple the [TS]
01:04:08 ◼ ► dame librarian pigeon as the client. You are correct it's purple and pigeon is the client you're absolutely right. [TS]
01:04:14 ◼ ► Anyways I looked into contributing to. I actually may not have even been lip purple it might have been A.T.M. [TS]
01:04:21 ◼ ► and I started looking at this code and went I have no idea what the hell's going on here [TS]
01:04:26 ◼ ► and I found that in a couple of open source projects I briefly considered contributing to the code was so crazy complex [TS]
01:04:45 ◼ ► and so I have in short I haven't really contributed to any established open source projects now I bring that up because [TS]
01:04:52 ◼ ► in the end this implied time commitment of open source projects was the subheading here on this topic what I was [TS]
01:04:58 ◼ ► thinking of is my open source project that I started myself or published some are attributed to that I did years [TS]
01:05:07 ◼ ► and years ago and most of them are all still out there and they're far worse off than fast X. Believe me. [TS]
01:05:19 ◼ ► and were never very good because they were written by you know the much younger version of myself right. [TS]
01:05:33 ◼ ► but I don't pull it because it's like that's sort of part of the open source thing is like I write the source code. [TS]
01:06:02 ◼ ► or you know you you feel these complaints are founded of someone complained to me that the one of my C.P.M. [TS]
01:06:10 ◼ ► I would agree with them as cases seems to agree that fast sex you know is out of date at this point. [TS]
01:06:22 ◼ ► and I don't think there is an implied commitment for me to continue to maintain for free in this open source code that [TS]
01:06:31 ◼ ► I mean a lot to be fair the context a different of having an app in the App Store versus having a supermodel available [TS]
01:06:37 ◼ ► they don't but if it's free even if it's for charge I understand that as you try to feel many feel bad about that [TS]
01:06:46 ◼ ► and the sense of like well you know whatever you get what you paid for you didn't like it was a crappy Abdoulaye [TS]
01:06:52 ◼ ► If you don't like the software that's going to you downloaded and deleted her desk. [TS]
01:07:19 ◼ ► Unlike most open source software because Unix never changes like it will continue to work right. [TS]
01:07:25 ◼ ► But anyway that's how I feel about my older projects is that I feel the same way K.T. [TS]
01:07:32 ◼ ► Does in Paris by the members by their being not being updated you know and I feel the same way about future. [TS]
01:07:39 ◼ ► Putting more time into it am I going to know because I have many other things that I'm doing in my time these days [TS]
01:07:44 ◼ ► but I but my decision given all those things is not to pull but just to leave it there. [TS]
01:07:49 ◼ ► Festering I guess I mean nothing like I totally get this I mean I went through some of the same things with buckshot [TS]
01:07:58 ◼ ► bugs does not work. On the new i Phones for some reason and I don't even know why I never listen to the. [TS]
01:08:06 ◼ ► I have spent five minutes on it could be a five minute fix I don't know the reason why it doesn't work is less [TS]
01:08:12 ◼ ► important than the reason why I'm not working on it which is that it made no money. [TS]
01:08:17 ◼ ► Basically no money made I think thirty five hundred dollars. The vast majority of which was the very first. [TS]
01:08:28 ◼ ► Well MUCH MUCH MONEY FAST tax is made I don't think I have if I don't but I when there are dollars I will do [TS]
01:08:41 ◼ ► but I am extraordinarily confident it's less than a thousand dollars and I'm pretty confident it was at [TS]
01:08:48 ◼ ► or less than five hundred over the course of I think four years it's been in the store. [TS]
01:08:53 ◼ ► OK well I feel like a jerk but it made a hole it made that amount of money up front [TS]
01:09:04 ◼ ► and I remember there was even a brief time we were comparing buckshot to fast and they were fairly comparable. [TS]
01:09:10 ◼ ► So like you know it had a good month and then it was over so that the fact is that it didn't work [TS]
01:09:16 ◼ ► and I was eight on the new devices and what are C.E.O.'s of devices I don't even know. [TS]
01:09:21 ◼ ► It wasn't even worth spending fifteen minutes on because if I'm going to make bug shot continue as a product I want to [TS]
01:09:31 ◼ ► Which would mean a full photo library integration so that you could for instance ante to screen shot [TS]
01:09:37 ◼ ► and then delete it from your camera which you can't do in the current version if you couldn't do that you'll have to [TS]
01:09:41 ◼ ► get things like be an extension so you could be you know that they have the photo editing extension type. [TS]
01:09:46 ◼ ► Why isn't bug shot a photo editing extension so I will want to do that too I would want to make it look up a proper [TS]
01:09:53 ◼ ► updated app if I'm to keep it in the store and keep working and keep it running as a product and the fact is it just. [TS]
01:10:00 ◼ ► Doesn't make enough money. It never made enough money to make that really worth doing. [TS]
01:10:06 ◼ ► when I look at how I want to spend this time which is what you were saying to me about you we look at like how do I [TS]
01:10:17 ◼ ► but should really be you know at least a couple of weeks according to really do what I would want with it. [TS]
01:10:25 ◼ ► or improving overcast which is making money and which is you know seemingly a more deserving source of my time. [TS]
01:10:32 ◼ ► Or if if I'm throwing around to you coding time show even try a whole different at maybe some creative thing for the [TS]
01:10:38 ◼ ► watch. You know I'm sure I try to hold whole new product to give that a chance to succeed. [TS]
01:10:43 ◼ ► So I made the decision it was not worth me putting any more time into it I didn't want to put any more time into it [TS]
01:10:49 ◼ ► because it simply wasn't interesting and it wasn't going to pay off and the things I wanted to do with it. [TS]
01:10:59 ◼ ► And so for Kinser Casey first of all I feel like a jerk for ever making fun of you now. [TS]
01:11:09 ◼ ► but it was accurate it was I mean it was meant to be insulting and meant to be funny you know. [TS]
01:11:16 ◼ ► But I totally understand what you're saying which is like you can't forsee a time where you're going to choose to spend [TS]
01:11:23 ◼ ► your time doing that instead of anything else with your work or family and I get that. [TS]
01:11:29 ◼ ► I totally get that like if that's your reason I totally support it because I've made the same kind of decision that I [TS]
01:11:45 ◼ ► when it was clear maybe six months after it became very clear after a while it was making like between zero [TS]
01:11:56 ◼ ► And and so I that's I'm just going to linger for why I did. You pull it after it was free. It's not working. [TS]
01:12:06 ◼ ► when I stopped working poet because then you because then you're basically you're not putting more time into a bit like [TS]
01:12:13 ◼ ► and doesn't make it all of them not a useful application especially for the poor like someone saying you know this idea [TS]
01:12:20 ◼ ► when you're not going to put in more time you have to leave you know on the stories for years Bagley clutters a store. [TS]
01:12:24 ◼ ► No that's exactly the kind of clutter I want when I'm looking for an app and like I just want something quick and free. [TS]
01:12:30 ◼ ► I wanted to be an app that a good developer has abandoned maybe it's not the best that maybe it's an I was six [TS]
01:12:35 ◼ ► but it's not going to feel bad is actually going to do something useful not to be filled with you know spammy reviews [TS]
01:12:40 ◼ ► that somebody paid for I would love to stumble upon bugs shot as a free screenshot annotation app that I needed in a [TS]
01:12:45 ◼ ► pinch than something on the eight thousand other three apps which are probably not even screen chaps at all [TS]
01:12:50 ◼ ► but some kind of like secret portal to you know some sort of online gambling thing or something who knows. [TS]
01:12:58 ◼ ► So I have I would say that you should consider putting fast text back it's very intense not to work in that point don't [TS]
01:13:06 ◼ ► put any more time into you don't want to but if someone is looking for an app that does a fast test text does [TS]
01:13:13 ◼ ► but that's not filled with now where they'll download it for free will do what it does if they don't like the deleted [TS]
01:13:18 ◼ ► fine like I think you know you did put work into it does do something it is functional. [TS]
01:13:24 ◼ ► Why not let people benefit from it even though you may feel bad about not updating or whatever [TS]
01:13:30 ◼ ► but I don't you know I wouldn't spend time feeling bad about that because you're just making a choice about what to do [TS]
01:13:35 ◼ ► So one of the reasons is I feel like it's calling attention to something that isn't my best work which I know you [TS]
01:14:03 ◼ ► and well camel for example the blogging software that I wrote the powers case whois dot com It's not terribly great [TS]
01:14:19 ◼ ► and maybe some people read it maybe they don't maybe some listeners will read it and be like why is he proud of this [TS]
01:14:25 ◼ ► and that's OK I mean if you don't get it that doesn't matter to me because I'm proud of it [TS]
01:14:29 ◼ ► and I'm not proud of fast text anymore and but the thing don't you think that's the way it should be. [TS]
01:14:33 ◼ ► I've always considered it a badge of honor a desirable trait that if you are a programmer you should always look back [TS]
01:14:42 ◼ ► at the code you wrote in the past and think it's bad because if you don't that means you're not getting any better. [TS]
01:14:46 ◼ ► So if you look at the code your last year you should find problems with it now that you didn't find then if you look at [TS]
01:14:51 ◼ ► the code that you wrote five years ago it should look disgusting it was ten years ago to look like nonsense [TS]
01:14:57 ◼ ► and you can't even believe you are the same person who wrote it like that should be true for the life of a working [TS]
01:15:02 ◼ ► program so the fact that you are no longer proud of FESTAC as a product as a as a pilot source code as a whatever shows [TS]
01:15:09 ◼ ► that you are making progress that if you were to make it now you would do it better you would see things in it now that [TS]
01:15:17 ◼ ► You know me like that I don't think that should dissuade you like and yes is not your best work. [TS]
01:15:25 ◼ ► and not see the date on it unlike him ascending with the pen model someone stumbles across you know as my largest giant [TS]
01:15:31 ◼ ► pile of public Procardia look at it it's all crap and decide that I'm a programmer. [TS]
01:15:35 ◼ ► That's like I guess I'm willing to take that risk that they don't see the dates and [TS]
01:15:43 ◼ ► and a bit of Especially since I am still actually maintaining that code unlike your deciding not to maintain fast X. [TS]
01:15:49 ◼ ► but I don't think you should feel bad about just because you're not proud of it I think I think all of your [TS]
01:15:53 ◼ ► applications all your endeavors. You should look back on and say that is no longer up to my. [TS]
01:16:03 ◼ ► Here's the comedy of all this how I know I made the right call as I had like half an hour to fiddle around tonight [TS]
01:16:21 ◼ ► I agree with you and and even as I was looking at camel Earlier tonight I looked at it [TS]
01:16:29 ◼ ► but I feel like with fast text it's sort of advertising that I'm not good at what I'm sort of supposed to be good at to [TS]
01:16:43 ◼ ► Same thing as my theory then modules about Perl code of mine can you see you can see old code that's bad code can't you [TS]
01:16:48 ◼ ► see all the code are right for my employers I think it's a little different to me I find it a little different though [TS]
01:16:55 ◼ ► because your perl code does not directly relate to the things you're known for on the Internet it's not like you're I [TS]
01:17:03 ◼ ► mean the best analogy I can think of is like old crappy system seven reviews that are still out on which I know you [TS]
01:17:09 ◼ ► never wrote but just hypothetically don't know if you if you want to go for that. My old O S ten or views are terrible. [TS]
01:17:15 ◼ ► The writing is terrible I cannot even look at them I just know I've said this before [TS]
01:17:20 ◼ ► and it I don't know why I'm the only person internet pointing this out because it's the worst they have ever say [TS]
01:17:24 ◼ ► but people want to know if I use smileys in some of them old clothes around here in the middle of the text. [TS]
01:17:38 ◼ ► and the writing is terrible the content is terrible and it's just one I don't want to think about [TS]
01:17:44 ◼ ► but am I going to pull those reviews you know that you can really special editions that have all the crap removed at a [TS]
01:17:54 ◼ ► and I'm like that would mean that I would have to make hard decisions about you know I'd like to look at special. [TS]
01:18:03 ◼ ► Queen of the mat line in the dust and scratches the smile is counted out lines I think oh goodness. [TS]
01:18:10 ◼ ► So I mean I understand your point and to me it just seems it seems different probably because it's me and not you. [TS]
01:18:29 ◼ ► but I just I feel like I feel like it calls attention to something I guess that what I'm trying to say to the C.P.M. [TS]
01:18:39 ◼ ► Whereas I think if I were a random person looking at looking to figure out who the three of us are you know for you [TS]
01:18:47 ◼ ► they would find your O S ten reviews which granted the older ones may not be great [TS]
01:18:51 ◼ ► but the newer ones are just freakin phenomenal and for Marco they'll find a laundry list of successful applications [TS]
01:19:02 ◼ ► But but but for me I don't want someone to stumble upon fast text and judge me based on that [TS]
01:19:11 ◼ ► and I guess in summary maybe just plain pride but I don't know I just I felt like the right answer was to pull it. [TS]
01:19:20 ◼ ► and several years you're going to say the same thing about the podcast we're recording right now are not enough. [TS]
01:19:29 ◼ ► That's very true that's very true. I mean that like this is true of everything like that. [TS]
01:19:34 ◼ ► If you're getting better at things which most of us do continue to get better things as as we get older. [TS]
01:19:43 ◼ ► You will look back on what you've done previously even if it's the thing you're most known for [TS]
01:19:51 ◼ ► or find things wrong with it that you didn't find wrong with a now I think you should be proud of fast X. [TS]
01:19:55 ◼ ► If I had an app on the App Store I will leave it there until it broke. I think making it go. [TS]
01:20:02 ◼ ► but I would definitely believe I lived out there just just sort of like prove to the world that like you said I did [TS]
01:20:10 ◼ ► make an iris up once and it does work and did do things and here it is and maybe you just change how you refer to it [TS]
01:20:20 ◼ ► Like retired podcast podcast that I'm no longer doing right now that you should feel better as you do [TS]
01:20:27 ◼ ► but you know you gotta do what you gotta do I also think you should put food on the I can protect her dead [TS]
01:20:36 ◼ ► Fascitis sure if you can get me more than twenty bucks out South America really reversal here in hundreds to buy [TS]
01:20:47 ◼ ► and then I'd like to talk a little bit about like what John was referring to earlier which is the implied time [TS]
01:21:02 ◼ ► You will actually like it with easy to use absolute share counters Twitter like micro blogs file sharing task [TS]
01:21:08 ◼ ► management and more igloo is everything you need to work better together in one very configurable cloud platform. [TS]
01:21:21 ◼ ► and very reasonably priced After that it's incredible if you needed internet for a group of ten people or fewer. [TS]
01:21:31 ◼ ► With a response of resign your internet already works like a champ on virtually any device I O. S. [TS]
01:21:53 ◼ ► Five compatible so when your co-workers ability a proposal or a Java Script file or a document you can preview. [TS]
01:22:03 ◼ ► All right from your phone even it doesn't support Flash or Java or anything like that it's all H.T.M.L. Five. [TS]
01:22:13 ◼ ► If you're a business you know what this means if you're a customer this might sound like jibberish [TS]
01:22:20 ◼ ► Gardner's famous Magic Quadrant for social software included a glue they appear for the sixth consecutive year [TS]
01:22:29 ◼ ► Ware Sales Force dot com And as a P for the values the viability of the vendor it is praised for the response of MS [TS]
01:22:41 ◼ ► or old core of technology you definitely should give it Lou try the really cool fantastic Internet really an entrant [TS]
01:22:47 ◼ ► you actually like and anybody's ever had to use a corporate Internet before. That's a pretty bold statement. [TS]
01:22:51 ◼ ► And if they follow through with it it's really great so a glue loose Software dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]
01:23:01 ◼ ► and a very reasonably priced after that really free for up ten people. Humans will do it there's no downside.. [TS]
01:23:06 ◼ ► Go try it free for up to ten people go to the Software dot com slash A.T.P. Thanks a lot. [TS]
01:23:13 ◼ ► So the other thing I want to talk about is the implied time commitments of open source software [TS]
01:23:21 ◼ ► and I first became affected by this when I open source camel which again is the no J.S. [TS]
01:23:33 ◼ ► and I got enough attention from it that a handful of people had forked it and had issued poll requests and [TS]
01:23:45 ◼ ► and I noticed that a lot of times I just didn't have the time to handle these any timely manner [TS]
01:23:55 ◼ ► and apparently I'm trying to squeeze more time in a sense thirty four times anyway. [TS]
01:24:01 ◼ ► Now Anyhow occasionally there were there were instances where people would issue a pull request wait a day or two [TS]
01:24:10 ◼ ► and then like poll or rescind the poll request saying oh I guess you didn't like this. Those people are jerks. [TS]
01:24:17 ◼ ► Well kind a Yeah but at the same time I feel or felt especially when there was a little more activity. [TS]
01:24:26 ◼ ► A couple months back a few months back I felt this like overwhelming burden put on me to get through these poll [TS]
01:24:34 ◼ ► requests in a timely manner and I probably shouldn't have and this comes back to what John was saying earlier. [TS]
01:24:45 ◼ ► and this burden because I wasn't getting through these poll requests quickly enough [TS]
01:24:53 ◼ ► and it's a wonderful wonderful thing in that people care enough to be issuing these poll requests [TS]
01:24:59 ◼ ► but at the same time I was not prepared for I kind of thought in my head that I was going to just throw it out into the [TS]
01:25:08 ◼ ► Internet and then kind of walk away never look back and turns out that's not really the case. [TS]
01:25:14 ◼ ► Yeah so but the thing that I'm struggling with a similar only over a longer timeline [TS]
01:25:23 ◼ ► and see Ben models out there most of them nobody uses anymore which is kind of the ideal that Casey was looking for. [TS]
01:25:33 ◼ ► and I have some like my first one actually from the ninety's probably doesn't work anymore. [TS]
01:25:37 ◼ ► But no one downloaded to nobody knows that so it's fine but I do have a couple that people are still using [TS]
01:25:43 ◼ ► and what you did back in the day and what you probably still do today when you go to see them much will became popular. [TS]
01:25:48 ◼ ► If you made a website for a Dios of the source code somewhere where people could you know where you had a bug tracker. [TS]
01:25:53 ◼ ► You put it in version control you gave commit bits of the diary for people you want to contribute to the project you [TS]
01:25:58 ◼ ► started a mailing list. And like you just you built up this ecosystem around us pretty good. [TS]
01:26:11 ◼ ► So one of the actual time commitments of having an open source project like this is that I have had to move those [TS]
01:26:22 ◼ ► things to new places and the old places go away or become crappy like source for chess right. [TS]
01:26:27 ◼ ► So I move in source or to code I'll probably move from google code to get hub move version control from C.V.S. [TS]
01:26:33 ◼ ► To some version now I'm starting to show my age here from some version to get which I probably will do eventually. [TS]
01:26:43 ◼ ► And those are things it's like at the time you have those decisions. Well I could just leave it there for ever. [TS]
01:26:49 ◼ ► But maybe the mountain is broke or maybe something's not working or maybe nobody uses C.V.S. Anymore. [TS]
01:26:55 ◼ ► So do I not put any more time in and just you know like remove it from the Internet or just like let it die [TS]
01:27:06 ◼ ► and historically have decided that it's worth putting in the time to do these conversions [TS]
01:27:13 ◼ ► and the second part is I see you've got this image of like a mailing list you've got a mailing list is kind of like an [TS]
01:27:26 ◼ ► and over the course of a decade literally this is malice there which is degenerated to. [TS]
01:27:40 ◼ ► and do I should I spend time answering these people they're not my customers are not giving any money do I have any [TS]
01:27:46 ◼ ► commitment to help these people with their programming problems which often are nothing to do with my model. [TS]
01:27:51 ◼ ► Not really and so I struggle with the guilt of like do I just not answer anyone's questions anymore [TS]
01:28:02 ◼ ► and then the final thing which case it was going to is the equivalent in the GO code world using subversion [TS]
01:28:15 ◼ ► Someone makes feature request feature requests I'm pretty OK with just ignoring this point it's like well you know if [TS]
01:28:25 ◼ ► and send me a patch then I have to get with like my case he was like well I probably wouldn't add that feature myself [TS]
01:28:34 ◼ ► and the same thing with bug fixes they would send the Senate passed with a bug fix and a test and everything else [TS]
01:28:40 ◼ ► and documentation and it's like you just always take some time to clean those things up put them in test [TS]
01:28:46 ◼ ► And my decision so far has been I will incorporate bug fixes if you report a bug is reproducible [TS]
01:28:54 ◼ ► or figure out what it takes to take it so I won't add features for the most part and thus you send a feature [TS]
01:29:01 ◼ ► and tied up in a little bow I'll spend fifteen minutes half an hour an hour to get it integrated [TS]
01:29:09 ◼ ► That is terrible in that no one should really use that you know that is really old. [TS]
01:29:13 ◼ ► The source code that I can barely look at anymore but I mean I don't know what's driving me to put any time into it [TS]
01:29:22 ◼ ► and so I I almost feel like that I'm like a slave to the lingering popularity of a once popular set of for all modules [TS]
01:29:36 ◼ ► when I get a message the email isn't someone make some demand or whatever might want you to implement it yourself. [TS]
01:29:41 ◼ ► Like if you're if you're so hot about it like you know why should I answer this question for you why should I fix [TS]
01:29:49 ◼ ► Like not their fault like I don't I don't act on the things that you feel like and I am your free servant why. [TS]
01:30:01 ◼ ► and I guess a lot of time it's you know it's from either something simple where they don't understand something basic [TS]
01:30:07 ◼ ► about programming or like being sanely most complex thing I've got this and that and the other thing [TS]
01:30:11 ◼ ► and they're all tied together like this and I'm doing this and that and then I would like to do this [TS]
01:30:16 ◼ ► That's what I do for a job I get paid to do that that is a very complicated problem that we have a white board [TS]
01:30:24 ◼ ► and it's like well answer for free for me on this mailing list just so I'm going to benefit generation with these [TS]
01:30:30 ◼ ► things mostly dealing with it by doing the minimal work necessary to make myself feel guilty which means actually [TS]
01:30:38 ◼ ► and I don't want to fix bugs like my final out is to hand off this model to someone who cares like you know the [TS]
01:30:48 ◼ ► Is there somebody who wants to take over maintain or ship of this here you go go with it [TS]
01:30:52 ◼ ► and I won't do that because I still have some tiny bit of pride in like this was once a pretty good thing. [TS]
01:30:56 ◼ ► I spent a long time implementing and running tests and documentation and it still kind of works sort of [TS]
01:31:03 ◼ ► and you know I don't know I just don't feel like I want to give it up because I don't know. [TS]
01:31:08 ◼ ► So anyway I don't know how to deal with that situation it's a constant source of guilt and potential time suckage. [TS]
01:31:15 ◼ ► Now Marco How have you dealt with F C model because that's probably the most active of anything we've described I would [TS]
01:31:23 ◼ ► Well recently I mean probably the most used thing I've ever done is buckshot kit which I haven't touched in a long time [TS]
01:31:30 ◼ ► and for many the same reason I haven't took buckshot in fact much of buckshot goes in book jacket [TS]
01:31:40 ◼ ► I use it for a while I no longer use buckshot kit in my own app on his I don't really need that kind of integration of [TS]
01:31:47 ◼ ► testing and stuff anymore and that's it so I haven't touched in a long time and it doesn't really need anything. [TS]
01:31:56 ◼ ► and if you needed to do something you can just do it yourself in your own app. I do it. [TS]
01:32:00 ◼ ► Only get pull requests on buckshot kit if it's something really trivial that's an obvious you know minor improvement [TS]
01:32:11 ◼ ► and forget to do it for a month in the vengefully it'll become so ridiculous at data that there's no point accepting it [TS]
01:32:21 ◼ ► Model is different so there really isn't a group of people out there wandering around looking like your open source [TS]
01:32:33 ◼ ► or that some really general thing like like your utility library like I have my utility library open source like so [TS]
01:32:41 ◼ ► Nobody looks at it I get noble requests on it like it's gets no activity because there's not a whole lot of people [TS]
01:32:47 ◼ ► looking around for your utility library so just like there's not a lot of value that for most people not to get pull [TS]
01:32:54 ◼ ► requests you know you know they don't just come from the poll request fairies like they like they come from people who [TS]
01:33:04 ◼ ► The code for which there aren't a lot of alternatives or there aren't a lot of big well known alternatives [TS]
01:33:14 ◼ ► and in the percentage of those people who actually go through with the modification [TS]
01:33:18 ◼ ► or release filing a bug report with you or asking you about it rather than just ripping it out [TS]
01:33:22 ◼ ► and doing something else or taking quietly themselves and never submit back to you. [TS]
01:33:29 ◼ ► The reason why you probably get a noble request because you like just having open source something doesn't inherently [TS]
01:33:34 ◼ ► make it like useful to enough people that they will start using it and submitting improvements to you. [TS]
01:33:45 ◼ ► when somebody to mythical request is like well intentioned but either something that I wouldn't do [TS]
01:33:52 ◼ ► Well eight are even poorer because what if someone sent you an email because you don't have a malice for a C. [TS]
01:33:56 ◼ ► Model or anything as far as I know I sent you an e-mail and said Hey I was using your. [TS]
01:34:00 ◼ ► Never your utility library as he model bugs I get whatever and I was trying to do X. [TS]
01:34:04 ◼ ► and I couldn't quite figure a way to do it I tried to do this and it didn't quite work [TS]
01:34:07 ◼ ► and I thought maybe you could do that but I'm not sure if I'm using your own can you help me. [TS]
01:34:12 ◼ ► What would you do with that email I would respond probably the most it was a really quick response. [TS]
01:34:16 ◼ ► You would not respond at all I would be looking at the support email I mean I get so much e-mail I can't I can't spend [TS]
01:34:22 ◼ ► like a half hour respond to that that that's all I'm saying like that type of the writer [TS]
01:34:26 ◼ ► and imagine if you got like maybe three of those a week for a decade starts there where I knew I just feel like like [TS]
01:34:40 ◼ ► I don't even know even I start to feel bad because it's like especially with programming questions. [TS]
01:34:49 ◼ ► Happens on Twitter too it's like I could get the answer to this question often by this point I will be someone else [TS]
01:34:57 ◼ ► goes I remember anymore like you could if you have the answer the question could be you can use my usual elaborate do [TS]
01:35:03 ◼ ► and then you feel like now you're in a conversation with them they're you like looking at that feature [TS]
01:35:07 ◼ ► and then your only answer is like no because I'm not spending time and I don't want it [TS]
01:35:11 ◼ ► and then it's like it's like you just wasted your you wasted more time than you want to spend on this and it's [TS]
01:35:21 ◼ ► and you're like why am I invested in this guy's programming problem you know I mean like are you just because you wrote [TS]
01:35:27 ◼ ► F C model does that mean that there is implicit support contract with everyone who tries to use a few miles do you have [TS]
01:35:33 ◼ ► No Mike I don't think you do but if you don't you end up looking like a jerk if you reply [TS]
01:35:37 ◼ ► and say sorry this library is not supported there you like. I demand my money back. [TS]
01:35:49 ◼ ► So the quick version is it's it's a very thin lightweight model where instead of using the link. [TS]
01:36:00 ◼ ► Right and you can do things you know like the database when I use this because I'm a jerk and I don't like or data [TS]
01:36:10 ◼ ► F C model has what appears to be very few users I think I would guess a number of people building after that is [TS]
01:36:20 ◼ ► It is a very small group of people but of those like three or four of them actually actively submit push pull [TS]
01:36:33 ◼ ► and usually will discuss something like before a substantial change will discuss it in an issue [TS]
01:36:40 ◼ ► when people people have submitted so many like little tiny bug fixes and little improvements here [TS]
01:36:44 ◼ ► and there there are only a few lines long and that's all great but you start supporting them because [TS]
01:36:49 ◼ ► when someone says hey I was trying to this thing it didn't work because I did this. [TS]
01:36:54 ◼ ► You are providing support because your support is engaging in a discussion with them about the future getting at the [TS]
01:37:00 ◼ ► and then you maintain ownership by Center saying well this is how I would do it in this is what I would do [TS]
01:37:05 ◼ ► and then implementing that So it's a support function you're essentially implementing features at their request maybe [TS]
01:37:11 ◼ ► just not exactly the way they did and talking to them answering their questions about it. [TS]
01:37:15 ◼ ► Well I am except well but if it's like a how does this work question you usually don't answer those. [TS]
01:37:26 ◼ ► and the people you don't know what they're doing like not a bunch of beginners flooding into like I am. [TS]
01:37:29 ◼ ► I just started writing my first I was out and I stumbled across your thing can you tell me how to use it. [TS]
01:37:33 ◼ ► Right because they are not going to be looking for sunlight as they're going to be using core data because that's all [TS]
01:37:38 ◼ ► and that's fine that's they should be using some like this probably cord it is much simpler than your modules will be fine. [TS]
01:37:43 ◼ ► Right. So what's great about this though is it like the reason why I'm engaged with it. [TS]
01:37:51 ◼ ► The reason why I react to the poll requests and I improve it is purely selfish it's because I use it in overcast and. [TS]
01:38:00 ◼ ► I'll probably use it in any near future apps that I would write as well like not I'm sorry [TS]
01:38:04 ◼ ► and things that are pregnant and just if I was something new I'd probably use it again. [TS]
01:38:13 ◼ ► And my my needs for overcast drive a few miles development. The bugs I wouldn't do I fix an F.C. [TS]
01:38:22 ◼ ► Model etc The performance issues are until I fix their Everyone gets out so this is the honeymoon period [TS]
01:38:28 ◼ ► I had several models for the most part were written for jobs I had at the time so that I could write them put them up [TS]
01:38:36 ◼ ► and then get the benefits I was able to give its various people I work for that there is a benefit in open sourcing [TS]
01:38:42 ◼ ► this part of the product because I will get used to cheer other people bug reports from other people like you know that [TS]
01:38:53 ◼ ► I stopped using it other people stopped using it now it's like a zombie for right now if the model is new relevant it's [TS]
01:39:00 ◼ ► extremely relevant in light of the various weird you know I got core data things that were going on right now which [TS]
01:39:08 ◼ ► and that you know so it's definitely in the period where you are reaping the benefits of of this being a module that I [TS]
01:39:17 ◼ ► but it's it's useful to you even if you are the only user you would like to have it out there just in case something [TS]
01:39:25 ◼ ► or you know whatever like even the you know the talking to the to the bear thing where I said nobody ever looked at the [TS]
01:39:31 ◼ ► source code but the mere act of publishing it like you know the mere act of you publishing a blog post [TS]
01:39:35 ◼ ► or something cause you to find a typo that you didn't see when you've been staring out of the previous hour [TS]
01:39:48 ◼ ► And would you say that's because of the contributions now because he had to show it to people who had to clean it up to [TS]
01:39:54 ◼ ► I mean it's both I mean like one thing the contributions have really helped with is like. [TS]
01:40:00 ◼ ► The contribution of often be by very good programmers who have been around much longer than I have at this [TS]
01:40:05 ◼ ► or is better than me at it and they will they will use a convention that I didn't even know existed like. [TS]
01:40:12 ◼ ► Like instead of doing you know processor defines for string constants will do the X. [TS]
01:40:21 ◼ ► Ways of the some autocomplete thing works better like there's little things like that that I pick up from the poll [TS]
01:40:28 ◼ ► and the dreaded words like it's like I'm working with a bunch of smart people who are slowly [TS]
01:40:32 ◼ ► and steadily improving my own skills by showing me cool things I could do like any rows I could do [TS]
01:40:36 ◼ ► or show a better way to doing things in very you know it oftentimes in very small ways [TS]
01:40:40 ◼ ► but over time that builds up I mean if the model is really like it is by far the only successful open source thing I've [TS]
01:40:49 ◼ ► and the most successful teachers ever done everything else of every open source has been really minimally benefited [TS]
01:40:56 ◼ ► anybody including me and you know John you're right as your model is in the honeymoon phase because I'm using it. [TS]
01:41:02 ◼ ► I stop using bugs and so bugs it is languishing and will probably never going to fit again if I ever stop using a C. [TS]
01:41:10 ◼ ► Model the project will probably die at that point or somebody else can take it over if they want to [TS]
01:41:23 ◼ ► So yes right now I'm fine so I guess my my way out is I just have to get better at ignoring them I can ever you know [TS]
01:41:32 ◼ ► bug reports though I can probably you know our feature requests you know stuff like that of oh that'll be sad because [TS]
01:41:41 ◼ ► that old you know people don't know it's going to be said for bug reports like how can ignore them you know all of them [TS]
01:41:49 ◼ ► just pile up like yeah this bug I just feel like I have to fix it. Especially just like you know it's. [TS]
01:42:04 ◼ ► I don't know I will probably just insane to limp along with stuff like I keep hoping that people lose interest entirely. [TS]
01:42:09 ◼ ► But but they don't people still sign up for the mailing list and like you know I don't understand them. I'm conflicted. [TS]
01:42:19 ◼ ► Thanks a lot to our sponsors this week. Oscar Bakley is an igloo and he will see you next week. [TS]
01:42:28 ◼ ► Now that's a downturn and she's accepted That's right. So John you got a P S four last week sometime. [TS]
01:43:36 ◼ ► when there's a game that I want to play and of course I would love for the game to be Last Guardian [TS]
01:43:40 ◼ ► but you know I say it surely will be some other game that I want to play before the [TS]
01:43:47 ◼ ► but I just very recently played the non remastered on B S three so that didn't make me by P S four [TS]
01:43:53 ◼ ► and I don't know what maybe I would now I think it's kind of my my tradition pre-Christian this present. [TS]
01:44:00 ◼ ► My self that I give myself before Christmas Around away for Christmas so I can play with it in the vacation because [TS]
01:44:04 ◼ ► that's a long time but that is not become a tradition and I bought myself something that I wanted and [TS]
01:44:11 ◼ ► and give it to myself before Christmas morning so I can play with it while on vacation and so the P.S. [TS]
01:44:23 ◼ ► and so I just got a mix of download a lot of downloadable titles that in lot of bother getting discs shipped to me [TS]
01:44:33 ◼ ► I don't if that's not true please don't tell me because I like to keep my allusions [TS]
01:44:42 ◼ ► when I play I'm not planning although I say I had destiny my son is already addicted to that destiny is exactly what I [TS]
01:44:49 ◼ ► The controller just destroys my hands playing destiny the Alex exists on the wrong spot you got to use all four [TS]
01:44:59 ◼ ► I really need to limit my time playing a game which is a shame because I find it fun. [TS]
01:45:02 ◼ ► Investing is pretty well done I don't know why I got such terrible reviews I guess people have higher expectations [TS]
01:45:06 ◼ ► but I I consider more of a long term investment and my son is really enjoying it so [TS]
01:45:11 ◼ ► when I saw reviews like six point five out of ten for Destiny maybe was Bug year on launch maybe just people have [TS]
01:45:17 ◼ ► but it fully satisfied everything that I thought it would be it's not really my dad to gamble anyway. [TS]
01:45:27 ◼ ► and I knew that going in is that is not going to be a drop in replacement for my P S three because Sony concentrated so [TS]
01:45:36 ◼ ► heavily on the game features that they're seemingly like obstinately opposed to doing new media center type stuff like [TS]
01:45:46 ◼ ► they don't sell a Bluetooth like remote for not you know like a remote remote that looks like a T.V. Remote. [TS]
01:45:57 ◼ ► Blu ray player like my P S three is always on my Blu ray player. Or if you want to use your B.S. [TS]
01:46:04 ◼ ► and I can have the controller sitting there on the end table so I can just I just want to that there are third party [TS]
01:46:10 ◼ ► remotes that you can buy but all of them had terrible reviews and all of them use an I.R. [TS]
01:46:15 ◼ ► Thing and I was like Sony can you just make a remote like charge some stupid ridiculous amount for [TS]
01:46:20 ◼ ► and I'll buy it I just want a remote they used to didn't they for the P S three of the P S The P S three has a [TS]
01:46:25 ◼ ► Bluetooth remote that works is B S three I'm pretty sure it doesn't work with the P S four some [TS]
01:46:33 ◼ ► I control my P S three with the harmony thing is that has a Bluetooth interface and I can do it and it works great. [TS]
01:46:39 ◼ ► Yeah if I can find anyone knows that I want to send feedback to show a Bluetooth remote that works with the P S four [TS]
01:46:51 ◼ ► and I support for you know streaming video of all the various House devices in my house that can do that [TS]
01:47:01 ◼ ► Just the basic media center type stuff I can play everywhere if you can play Blu ray movies on it [TS]
01:47:07 ◼ ► and I bet it's pretty OK Blu ray player although I was researching this a lot of people playing with the very first [TS]
01:47:13 ◼ ► The Blu ray player wasn't even as good as the P S three one so I still have my P S three attached I still use it as I [TS]
01:47:26 ◼ ► but depending on where video comes from and what format it's in. Sometimes I have to use P.S. [TS]
01:47:32 ◼ ► Three media server sometimes I have to use the P S three to stream for someplace else sometimes like a standard for my [TS]
01:47:41 ◼ ► Like if I can't get rid of my P S three want to get rid of my P S four and I can't get rid of my wee [TS]
01:47:46 ◼ ► when I get my way you know because that we still play the game as Game Cube connectors like I got five game console [TS]
01:47:51 ◼ ► Sega's and I.T.V. Plus Apple T.V. You know Tivo Plus I'm running at inputs here. So as I really hope. [TS]
01:48:11 ◼ ► If you put a B S three on top of P S four it doesn't look right to me it looks like that the front of this [TS]
01:48:18 ◼ ► and you can put the P S four on top of the P S three biggest curve like a drug for mongrels little skitter off the P S [TS]
01:48:24 ◼ ► four doesn't have feet on the bottom and has these three little rubber curve things [TS]
01:48:33 ◼ ► but because the air in the air intakes are not on the bottom so you could have the thing flush [TS]
01:48:38 ◼ ► but if you put it on top of another piece of equipment it will be blocking the holes more or less [TS]
01:48:41 ◼ ► and I think that it's on top of so I had to buy some clear rubber feet to elevate it to area to the devices underneath [TS]
01:48:52 ◼ ► and it's just you know it's someplace I'm not out of plugs in the power of getting close give a thing with the missing [TS]
01:48:59 ◼ ► feet I was just about to say that get out of my head but I think feet and fast text I can do it. All right fine. [TS]
01:49:18 ◼ ► and the controls are expensive like fifty bucks each hour the touchpad thing that they added is not a good touch pad [TS]
01:49:23 ◼ ► but it does make text input slightly less painful because you can use a touch pad to move the little cursor around on [TS]
01:49:31 ◼ ► Would you ever consider stacking the P S four with a non Sony system to make it stack better with your step. [TS]
01:49:38 ◼ ► Or does it have to be stuck with a P S three now I was stuck with anything the kids type of it you see my so there's [TS]
01:49:45 ◼ ► There's only two possible cases you can go Under the P S three or on top of my receiver [TS]
01:49:49 ◼ ► and under the P S three it looks weird and on top of my receiver is where it is now [TS]
01:49:53 ◼ ► but it's in feet elevated up second question. Would you consider D.D. Chaining two receivers. [TS]
01:50:03 ◼ ► and you can just get a switching box of searching about her terrible is why I got that I got this this receiver because [TS]
01:50:08 ◼ ► I was trying to find a balance of what about the Sony receiver that had ten H.D.M.I. [TS]
01:50:16 ◼ ► and having all sorts of problems so I guess I should go into the thread it's not like forty pages people complain to [TS]
01:50:23 ◼ ► Anyway I'm glad I didn't get that one so I got this one that all the features that I wanted six H.D.M.I. [TS]
01:50:36 ◼ ► To reduce input lag so I have I still have enough options for the devices I have I'm not out of ports like I'm close to [TS]
01:50:45 ◼ ► but I can connect both of the Consul both of the council the current gen console swell the P S four in the way you [TS]
01:50:56 ◼ ► but next generation of consoles are going to have to make some hard decisions about what to do because I won't be [TS]
01:51:04 ◼ ► Even that's going to be how many years away the material while off I know I was I was pleasantly surprised by the [TS]
01:51:13 ◼ ► Like I mean I think the P S three why is I mean it's not good but it's understandable and the B.S. [TS]
01:51:19 ◼ ► For you I is a mild evolution of that it looks a little bit more spammy and in my face but it's fast it works. [TS]
01:51:26 ◼ ► Gotta my wife I could use the land poor and I didn't have any problems with anything it pretty much just work. [TS]
01:51:34 ◼ ► Download speeds are reasonable you know downloading stuff in the store works I guess like it is much better at this [TS]
01:51:40 ◼ ► stage in its life in the two or three of us at this stage is like I can tell you that. [TS]
01:51:48 ◼ ► Box One game system and not just because I have played and Microsoft tape but also because of it [TS]