00:00:00 ◼ ► Why did you become stupid game you should play this ball while rocking. Get an infant in your arm. [TS]
00:00:06 ◼ ► Yeah you can do it one handed one arm baby holding rock balance walking tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap. [TS]
00:00:17 ◼ ► All right so in the post show from last episode we can have a potion of neutral and I was talking [TS]
00:00:30 ◼ ► and I don't know if I made it clear that that entire conversation was completely hypothetical [TS]
00:00:37 ◼ ► and of course what with this being us everyone came out of the woodwork to give car recommendations [TS]
00:00:49 ◼ ► but I don't think I made it clear that that it was all just hypothetical I mean neither of us is going to get a car [TS]
00:00:59 ◼ ► For at least a couple more years if not longer than that and as I think I said on the show Aaron loves her Mazda six [TS]
00:01:05 ◼ ► and I think she'd probably rather give me up in the car just and you know who can blame or so I didn't mention that. [TS]
00:01:11 ◼ ► Additionally a lot of people came out of the woodwork to say the goal of our wagon is a thing [TS]
00:01:16 ◼ ► or if you're not from the United States the state believe that's right and saloon is a sedan is a right [TS]
00:01:23 ◼ ► and you still think golf apparently to golf golf whatever I just want to add that it's not even an accent is it do you [TS]
00:01:31 ◼ ► or G G O L F Yes So it's golf or yeah Is that why does everyone think that's brawn. [TS]
00:01:46 ◼ ► Point being I know that's the thing the reason I didn't bring it up is because I don't suspect that will get it in the [TS]
00:01:53 ◼ ► and yes I believe it was in Los Angeles briefly for the purposes of the Los Angeles Motor Show auto show whatever. [TS]
00:02:03 ◼ ► Additionally people have suggested various Subarus including the outback also known as the B.M.W. Three G.T. [TS]
00:02:17 ◼ ► and that car had its entire drive train replaced over the course of the sixty or eighty thousand miles that I had it [TS]
00:02:23 ◼ ► and although I drive like a jerk I don't drive like an animal so I don't think it's my fault [TS]
00:02:37 ◼ ► Has not had any parts on it replaced actually going quite well in fact we use it for our Thanksgiving trip this past [TS]
00:02:42 ◼ ► weekend and it was glorious I love all the luxuries of having you know like all the little hooks [TS]
00:02:50 ◼ ► and little things that can move around plus the giant torn space to begin with It was quite quite pleasant. [TS]
00:02:54 ◼ ► And yeah I think I think we're going to sell you an errand on one of these. Next time you'll see you'll see. [TS]
00:03:01 ◼ ► You say you're denying it now but I bet once you once you actually see it and give the chance [TS]
00:03:11 ◼ ► That's not likely you could probably you may be able to get me me but there's no chance of getting there [TS]
00:03:17 ◼ ► and because she isn't. I think she thinks it looks too much like a wagon which she doesn't like. [TS]
00:03:22 ◼ ► And beyond that I don't think she particularly want to be M.W. Much to my Should chagrin. [TS]
00:03:27 ◼ ► That word I'm thinking of it's France shall grind much to my dismay let's go with that in no small part because all [TS]
00:03:34 ◼ ► B.M.W. Drivers are jerks myself extremely included and she is one associate with them. [TS]
00:03:40 ◼ ► There are enough of the Car Talk you want to talk about something that's cool I would love to. [TS]
00:03:49 ◼ ► It's definitely not because of a clerical error last week it was definitely a holiday miracle that the reason we have [TS]
00:04:00 ◼ ► Is studio neat once again with a whole bunch of cool stuff. So if you go to Studio neat dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]
00:04:14 ◼ ► and they've made you have to get a page I mean first of all the page looks incredible because they have incredibly good [TS]
00:04:23 ◼ ► and They have actually made custom drinks they've made the case you list for John Syracuse So the Marco Arment you can [TS]
00:04:36 ◼ ► and is based on Sprite that made me laugh so hard what I what I what they show this to me when Tom and [TS]
00:04:42 ◼ ► and studio in each of the Sammy the John Surtees it was far away my favorite. Well because I was a little concerned. [TS]
00:04:51 ◼ ► when I first saw they made rings for the three of us I thought Oh well I don't know of I don't know of John's going to [TS]
00:04:56 ◼ ► want to be associated with an alcoholic drink and oh no it's it's bright. John is that is that a correct assessment. [TS]
00:05:07 ◼ ► I was happy that I'm in college but I'm not a big fan of mint actually like this one [TS]
00:05:15 ◼ ► but if it were a boy body may more than be a drink that I like then I don't know maybe the combination of it might work [TS]
00:05:23 ◼ ► I've never I haven't tried this so I can't say whether or not it works as a drink. [TS]
00:05:26 ◼ ► Well similarly I don't know if I'd like a mask emule I mean if you look at the constituent ingredients say it seems [TS]
00:05:32 ◼ ► like something I would enjoy but I don't know the red ones like I know I hate old fashions [TS]
00:05:37 ◼ ► and much to the dismay not sugar in my curly and Marco but this sounds like it would be all right. [TS]
00:05:45 ◼ ► I think it's funny and my mind is like of course a coffee based dessert drink which sounds pretty good. [TS]
00:05:52 ◼ ► If I can say I think it's even better that John has a minor complaint about his. Yeah like. [TS]
00:06:00 ◼ ► It wouldn't be the John Syracuse if the real John Syracuse A didn't have a minor complaint about it. [TS]
00:06:04 ◼ ► Well I haven't I haven't talked about my Vegas like of mint things on the show before so they can be forgiven for not [TS]
00:06:10 ◼ ► knowing this tiny detail about me. Would you like to talk about that now John I would not. [TS]
00:06:15 ◼ ► Would you talk about that now John. We don't need to we can move on. Well we're still in the sponsor. [TS]
00:06:25 ◼ ► Know what we're going to come back to that some point maybe not today maybe not tomorrow but some day. [TS]
00:06:30 ◼ ► Anyway this is all studio neat dot com slash A.T.P. You gotta look at this page it's hilarious. [TS]
00:06:36 ◼ ► They also have made a cocktail tool guide cocktail tool Guide dot com and check that out as well. [TS]
00:06:44 ◼ ► They collected a whole bunch of gear some stuff they make some stuff that that they don't make [TS]
00:06:49 ◼ ► or if they make it they want you to have the best year for making cocktails at home [TS]
00:06:53 ◼ ► and some of the stuff is really cool and finally they have this new thing called the simple syrup kit [TS]
00:07:00 ◼ ► and it is exactly what it sounds like it is a kit to help you make and store simple syrup and honestly [TS]
00:07:06 ◼ ► when they first announced as I was a little skeptical because I've made simple syrup before it sugar and water [TS]
00:07:11 ◼ ► and I thought what do you possibly need a kit for to make this like couldn't you make this in anything [TS]
00:07:16 ◼ ► and I haven't for years I've been making my own simple surf usually for ice coffee recipes [TS]
00:07:21 ◼ ► and the fact is making simple Sarah by yourself even though it is incredibly simple it does have like two [TS]
00:07:26 ◼ ► or three potential spots for annoyance and I watched the video and I found simple circuits and I [TS]
00:07:36 ◼ ► I thought there was no room for a dedicated product in that space but they made one and it looks pretty good. [TS]
00:07:43 ◼ ► I mean these guys really have a knack for taking taking things that you didn't make maybe you didn't think you needed [TS]
00:07:50 ◼ ► and then once you have that you're like wow this is of course I knew this this is a great how do I care I live without [TS]
00:07:54 ◼ ► this studio and you go you gotta look at their cocktail tool guide. As well as the studio neat dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]
00:08:04 ◼ ► Where they create these awesome cocktails for each of us and really they are. They're really funny I got a say in it. [TS]
00:08:11 ◼ ► Page is a beautiful video they shot is beautiful the simple circuit. Check him out there. They make great stuff. [TS]
00:08:20 ◼ ► They have the ice kit all this great stuff they make the studio neat dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]
00:08:25 ◼ ► Yeah and as a final quick dent into that Tom and Dan are the two guys that run studio need [TS]
00:08:32 ◼ ► and they're super super super awesome awesome people so if you're going to throw if you go through a little bit of [TS]
00:08:46 ◼ ► and Forgive me if we already talked about that but yes forgive me for not talking about that that's very important. [TS]
00:08:58 ◼ ► All right when we talk about tonight there's not so much going on all right well that was good show. [TS]
00:09:05 ◼ ► Thanks a lot for sponsor them. Marco makes his own news right. Yeah you could say that. [TS]
00:09:16 ◼ ► Well I have a thing about about the push notification I had which was I don't know how much of a topic that really is [TS]
00:09:24 ◼ ► it's really a topic post about a tweet about it all day so it was ever you making your own news that could have come [TS]
00:09:32 ◼ ► and gone but you felt like you needed to chime in about it and say you wrote a big long blog post about it [TS]
00:09:37 ◼ ► and then argue to the people on Twitter about it it was one hundred ninety five words most of which are not about that [TS]
00:09:45 ◼ ► No there was an image in the middle of my to turn you off make use of your song and put a link in the show not so. [TS]
00:09:53 ◼ ► So basically the other day Apple sent out to push notifications advertising the red. [TS]
00:10:00 ◼ ► Apps or promotion from the App Store Apso if you if you had notifications enabled for the App Store [TS]
00:10:06 ◼ ► and if I remember correctly I don't think I ever actually enabled those I don't think I was ever asked to. [TS]
00:10:12 ◼ ► Maybe maybe you'd like the first time I launch the app store app on some of us version maybe that's me [TS]
00:10:16 ◼ ► and I said yes but I don't usually say yes to things and mine were unable to so I don't know what that was about. [TS]
00:10:23 ◼ ► If it was actually if it actually enabled by default and it never asks you up front that's kind of crappy [TS]
00:10:34 ◼ ► and now that you mention this I realize that the whole time I was reading your tweets in your post I was like well I [TS]
00:10:42 ◼ ► But I realize I do have an i Phone and then I have an i Phone Why didn't I get that [TS]
00:10:46 ◼ ► and I realize the reason I didn't get it is because any time I set up an the I was device I go to the notification [TS]
00:10:53 ◼ ► and then selectively turn on like the two apps that I want to allow her to tell me notifications which are I don't know [TS]
00:10:59 ◼ ► like messages and is there another one hundred messages. I can't think of anything offhand but certainly not apps. [TS]
00:11:09 ◼ ► Well anyway so regardless of whether it was somebody's fault even worse but regardless what I was pointing out [TS]
00:11:16 ◼ ► and it kind of got the idea kind of got muddy a little bit because the message they sent was promoting something for [TS]
00:11:27 ◼ ► and I don't honestly I don't know the details of how the product RED Corp works I think it's not technically a [TS]
00:11:40 ◼ ► A lot of people took took issue with me complaining about a push notification that is for this. [TS]
00:11:48 ◼ ► and the fact is I'm not taking issue with an avocation I'm taking issue with a red I'm not taking issue with the [TS]
00:12:00 ◼ ► Put on a vacation and there is specifically a rule in the abstract Allen's rule number five point six [TS]
00:12:07 ◼ ► The apps cannot use push notifications to send I think the exact wording but it's something like marketing [TS]
00:12:16 ◼ ► or on any i Phone Ever And you've ever said yes to push notifications to anything besides messages John if you if you. [TS]
00:12:22 ◼ ► You almost certainly know that after violate this rule constantly apps always send push notifications for advertising [TS]
00:12:30 ◼ ► purposes always like hey come back to our game new bombs are fifty percent off today only like crap like that [TS]
00:12:39 ◼ ► and so my post was basically saying this is really unfortunate how common this is that it is against the rules [TS]
00:12:45 ◼ ► and Apple doesn't really enforce that rule and to some degree they kind of can't enforce that rule [TS]
00:12:50 ◼ ► and we have with us a little bit before and now it's even worse that Apple itself doesn't follow that rule. [TS]
00:13:00 ◼ ► After all this preamble that yeah it was a little thing yeah it was you know essentially for a good cause. [TS]
00:13:15 ◼ ► and it's showing once again it's this is not that different from the you two album being shoved into our libraries this [TS]
00:13:39 ◼ ► And I you know I would I totally understand why like you know the target app or the Kohl's app [TS]
00:14:04 ◼ ► and who doesn't respect their customers either wants to spam people that's not a surprise [TS]
00:14:15 ◼ ► and so what worries me here is that not only that will setting a bad example that this practice is OK by doing it [TS]
00:14:22 ◼ ► themselves but also that it just shows that Apple is like their stuff getting through. [TS]
00:14:31 ◼ ► Apple has lots of people maybe some of them you know don't follow the same standards [TS]
00:14:41 ◼ ► and that like nose able to stop then say you know what this is this is kind of a bad way to do this [TS]
00:14:52 ◼ ► and that that worries me it worries me that Apple doesn't seem to respect this boundary [TS]
00:14:56 ◼ ► and doesn't seem to think this is a problem. I think my issue with it is not so much. [TS]
00:15:01 ◼ ► Everything you said about a person on occasions and boundaries in the U two album and everything. [TS]
00:15:11 ◼ ► and the App Store where if this was the only thing that happened it probably wouldn't bother me that much [TS]
00:15:23 ◼ ► and a long history of really weird arbitrary nonsensical enforcement or Hafen Forstmann of some rules [TS]
00:15:32 ◼ ► but not the rules like if Apple didn't have that pattern of behavior where an apple we finally apps over three years [TS]
00:15:38 ◼ ► and then get polled and Apple polled and put in after a bunch of stories appearing Web sites you know [TS]
00:15:43 ◼ ► or felt rejected for reasons that don't seem to make sense or be fair you know like that whole history [TS]
00:15:55 ◼ ► and come in contact with those sort of weird arbitrary rules and all that stuff over the years. [TS]
00:16:01 ◼ ► That makes this thing more egregious because it's like it's like they're rubbing it in our face. [TS]
00:16:06 ◼ ► Yes we know the rules don't really apply to Apple as they run the store like we're aware of it [TS]
00:16:16 ◼ ► and anger by proxy to learning to have an app in the App Store but I know a lot of people who do [TS]
00:16:22 ◼ ► They made a great app they tried to do something it seems I would never predicted they would have got a pose not a [TS]
00:16:30 ◼ ► and the app gets pulled for some crazy reason Apple doesn't care and it's this person's livelihood [TS]
00:16:34 ◼ ► and they spend all this time on it and they could not have predicted at a time that this would have been the result. [TS]
00:16:42 ◼ ► and money they spent to develop in the application now may be wasted for reasons that don't make sense you know we all [TS]
00:16:50 ◼ ► and try to divine what is Apple's motivation what kind of store they're trying to to make sure it's not going to tell [TS]
00:17:01 ◼ ► and you try to figure baseness vision they trying to not have a store where junky apps are on their nose playing drunk [TS]
00:17:15 ◼ ► With the exception of some simple stuff like no porn apps like you know that kind of thing make sense [TS]
00:17:20 ◼ ► and they've been consistent on almost everything else I can't figure out what it is that they're aiming for what why [TS]
00:17:28 ◼ ► and not there what kind what is the shape of the App Store they're trying to make by these rules of just seems [TS]
00:17:33 ◼ ► arbitrary and in the context of all of that then doing something like this just seems egregious [TS]
00:17:39 ◼ ► and it's not it's not the incident it's that it's the surrounding you know sort of sadness [TS]
00:17:44 ◼ ► and the reason is infinite so going you put the text of the the Rule five point six in your your thing in case people [TS]
00:17:49 ◼ ► think there's some big legal ease thing or whatever. Here's the full text of this rule and the apps or guidelines. [TS]
00:17:56 ◼ ► Apps cannot use push notifications to send advertising promotions or direct them. Marketing of any kind. [TS]
00:18:01 ◼ ► That's it that's the whole thing. There's not like twenty paragraphs of stuff. That's it and it is not ambiguous. [TS]
00:18:11 ◼ ► or it's direct marketing it's certainly one of those things like that pretty much covers all your bases. [TS]
00:18:16 ◼ ► And so they do this one little thing like we were already kind of upset that you know they don't catch all these ads [TS]
00:18:21 ◼ ► that are spamming us with the you know come back to our store to buy as an app purchase. [TS]
00:18:25 ◼ ► when they do it themselves it's for me it's not so much about fashion of occasion which I never even saw it's about [TS]
00:18:37 ◼ ► and that's maybe that's like transference like it's not fair to come down on whatever this one little incident was. [TS]
00:18:43 ◼ ► But really it is it's about it's about everything else that has to do with the App Store [TS]
00:18:51 ◼ ► but for me this is just you know the flash point of a much larger sort of sadness about the App Store. [TS]
00:19:08 ◼ ► I get they don't read sites that covered it as news that remark was blog they don't follow me on Twitter. [TS]
00:19:13 ◼ ► But the notification did come on their show on their phones. Did they even take note that it was they even notice. [TS]
00:19:24 ◼ ► and stalled probably get regular spam notifications like so many apps send them especially like you know big retailer [TS]
00:19:38 ◼ ► Like all of those apps there it is so incredibly common that this is also imposes about abuse of this of the system [TS]
00:19:45 ◼ ► and directly breaking this rule is so incredibly common that I would imagine most people who have a reasonable number [TS]
00:20:00 ◼ ► All who run the app store promo team like maybe the people at Apple who sent this ad aren't even aware that it's [TS]
00:20:15 ◼ ► and maybe on their phones maybe they see enough push notification ads from other apps they just think it's a normal [TS]
00:20:21 ◼ ► Well that's what I think I think it is a normal acceptable thing to do for for other people I guess. [TS]
00:20:30 ◼ ► and sell apps on the App Store in the history of Apple dealing with the App Store rules [TS]
00:20:34 ◼ ► and those people that makes us in any way sensitive to this whereas I think other people who don't know anyone who [TS]
00:20:39 ◼ ► makes apps don't care what it takes to make apps don't care what the rules are for the App Store. [TS]
00:20:43 ◼ ► This totally disappears into the noise noise that is mostly not of Apple's making maybe just of their negligence of not [TS]
00:20:49 ◼ ► enforcing this rule on other applications which as you pointed out somewhere maybe in the blog. [TS]
00:20:56 ◼ ► and Apple historically has not been good sort of crowdsourcing this kind of enforcement because basically [TS]
00:21:04 ◼ ► and you never get an ad push notification you can't determine whether the ad will never send a push notification. [TS]
00:21:14 ◼ ► and then here come the first notifications to be applied like it's very really easy to do that so there needs to be [TS]
00:21:19 ◼ ► some mechanism whereby people can report notifications I think is as you also said like you can't how do you you don't [TS]
00:21:29 ◼ ► and it's like it's got the maps thing all over again where people are trying to send corrections were an Apple had [TS]
00:21:35 ◼ ► and Apple was not good at integrating those corrections at least initially into improving the map data this is not [TS]
00:21:42 ◼ ► So if they are going to have a sort of very clear unambiguous rule against push notification ads they also need some [TS]
00:21:53 ◼ ► and I were told by our market is that the people who sent it either didn't know this was a rule or didn't care. [TS]
00:22:01 ◼ ► but again I think the only reason that he is talked about in our circles is because of our former contact with the app [TS]
00:22:10 ◼ ► Everyone else doesn't care at all because their entire life is dismissing stupid notifications about come back to the [TS]
00:22:15 ◼ ► game now because you're seven sprouts blossomed and you need to pluck them and you can get the fifty gems [TS]
00:22:25 ◼ ► Oh well this role is violent all the time so we might as well not even try to enforce it like that's not good enough to [TS]
00:22:30 ◼ ► me that's that I've heard a few people say that like oh well this is too common who cares it's one of occasion [TS]
00:22:36 ◼ ► and the fact is it isn't just one of occasion and the entire experience of your phone of using your phone changes [TS]
00:22:53 ◼ ► Just wait until they start showing up on your watch. Right like that that is not a small thing. [TS]
00:23:00 ◼ ► or you should at least be allowed to treat them as if they matter what he did they were not another story [TS]
00:23:05 ◼ ► but like it is an interruption to you it is literally pushed you don't ask for it is literally pushed to your device at [TS]
00:23:15 ◼ ► It alerts you it is meant to interrupt you to show you something that you care about seeing an ad is never going to be [TS]
00:23:22 ◼ ► one of those things and it's it like the idea that you say that oh well Apple can't really enforce us very easily [TS]
00:23:29 ◼ ► and lots of people break the rule so we don't we don't need to even try to enforce the rule. [TS]
00:23:34 ◼ ► No that's that is not good enough and that is not like Apple shouldn't think that's good enough. [TS]
00:23:40 ◼ ► And what worries me is whenever there's any sign that maybe they do think it's good enough [TS]
00:23:50 ◼ ► Thing is even though Apple's bad at this sort of crowd sourcing type of thing that can't be done an app [TS]
00:24:00 ◼ ► Right and most people don't realize that Freeview only spends a few minutes with each app. [TS]
00:24:05 ◼ ► Yeah so the other alternative is to collect all the information and that Apple is not good at [TS]
00:24:12 ◼ ► but the other part of it they're in such a powerful position to if they can get any kind of collection they're in such [TS]
00:24:18 ◼ ► a powerful position to enforce it because all they have to do is kind of have a sort of you know I don't know three [TS]
00:24:24 ◼ ► strikes you're out of some sort of the merit based system where you know the first time [TS]
00:24:27 ◼ ► or so you maybe didn't know about this rule maybe you didn't see this in the gut by the way after Bellbird we noticed [TS]
00:24:32 ◼ ► that a lot of people reported your absenting push notifications maybe confirm what they have developed [TS]
00:24:37 ◼ ► or is this the case or these people I don't know you determine authenticity is it so easy to fake this like [TS]
00:24:42 ◼ ► but in consultation with the thing they had you know not an automated kind of You Tube is taking down your movie [TS]
00:24:50 ◼ ► But in a human to human way which I think they can afford to do with the Felber relations Hey we got a lot of [TS]
00:24:59 ◼ ► and said of the present you know you're not supposed to says this guideline OK My bet that's one struck in the second [TS]
00:25:04 ◼ ► time they do it is a like you know hey we told you about this before and seems like you're still doing it. [TS]
00:25:08 ◼ ► You really need to stop doing that because if we get more reports of you doing a game [TS]
00:25:11 ◼ ► or to pull you out from the store and then you know whether it's three strikes because it's a baseball analogy [TS]
00:25:15 ◼ ► or something entirely different like they are totally in a position to talk to the people about something if it's a [TS]
00:25:21 ◼ ► willful violation it's not like oh accidentally use something that calls a private A.B.L. [TS]
00:25:27 ◼ ► There's no accidental push notifications for as happening maybe once you don't know about it maybe twice. [TS]
00:25:37 ◼ ► or maybe it resets after a year whatever they are in such a powerful position to tell anybody in the App Store you need [TS]
00:25:42 ◼ ► to stop it and they don't need to be perfect they don't need to catch every single one [TS]
00:25:45 ◼ ► but it has to be there has to be repercussions right now people are terrified to make it [TS]
00:25:50 ◼ ► and we'll talk about it maybe the next thought of how to make notification center which is the stuff [TS]
00:25:54 ◼ ► and I was because they're afraid they're going to get pulled but nobody's of raises and pushed out of the gate [TS]
00:26:00 ◼ ► Apple has all the power they can at their leisure whenever they want to go into whatever schedule they want to put the [TS]
00:26:05 ◼ ► fear of apple into every single developer and say you know we may just pull your app if you keep doing that. [TS]
00:26:13 ◼ ► There's no three strikes policy it's just you know it's completely foreign to the graphics. [TS]
00:26:18 ◼ ► Well that's the thing and you hit the nail on the head enough there in forcing the wrong stuff there. [TS]
00:26:23 ◼ ► They're tearing apart all of these today widgets which maybe we should take a pause [TS]
00:26:27 ◼ ► and talk about that rather than rather than going after all these ridiculous push notifications [TS]
00:26:38 ◼ ► but having some way of reporting I mean I think it was Paul Her dad had said you know if you do what is it a right to [TS]
00:26:47 ◼ ► and here it doesn't matter if you do the swipe the one direction to take action on the particular push notification you [TS]
00:26:54 ◼ ► just got Will lets you swipe in the other direction to like Report for spam or something along those lines [TS]
00:27:01 ◼ ► and I don't think most regular users have any idea that you can get pretty granular with your push notification [TS]
00:27:16 ◼ ► and that begs the question you know if there's this much spam coming on to their phones at what point did people start [TS]
00:27:21 ◼ ► feeling like that degrades the experience well I love my i Phone except that it's constantly buzzing with weird [TS]
00:27:33 ◼ ► We're also sponsored this week by Harry is go to Harry's dot com R. Y.S. Dot com and use the promo code A.T.P. [TS]
00:27:40 ◼ ► Holiday special on this week A.T.P. Holiday all one word to save five dollars off your first purchase. [TS]
00:27:46 ◼ ► Do you know someone in your gift list it's impossible to shop for that guy in your life who has everything. [TS]
00:27:51 ◼ ► Holiday shopping for these people in your life can be stressful time consuming and frustrating. [TS]
00:27:55 ◼ ► The last thing you want to do is go to the mall try to find something you consider gifting razor. [TS]
00:28:03 ◼ ► You never go to a drugstore and pick up a razor as a gift because drugs for reasons are flimsy tacky [TS]
00:28:09 ◼ ► Harry's came out with a limited edition line just for the holiday starting at just fifteen dollars including free [TS]
00:28:17 ◼ ► It's called the Winter Winston set and the winter Winston says only thirty dollars for a sleek chrome razor. [TS]
00:28:22 ◼ ► Three high quality blades and they were made in foaming shave gel or shaving cream. [TS]
00:28:27 ◼ ► It's already gift wrap and shipping is always free and is a special holiday offer. [TS]
00:28:32 ◼ ► Harry is giving our listeners five dollars off with perma code A.T.P. Holiday. That's right. [TS]
00:28:37 ◼ ► Even those of you who are already loyal Harries users will get five dollars off a winter Winston set with promo code [TS]
00:28:43 ◼ ► A.T.P. Holiday. If the Rays are three quality blade and cream for just twenty five dollars shipped. That's amazing. [TS]
00:28:52 ◼ ► Harries dot com started by two guys passionate about creating a better sharing experience for all men. [TS]
00:28:57 ◼ ► We talked with them before I like Harry's razor stuff I think I said before I would say it is comparable to a fusion [TS]
00:29:10 ◼ ► and the cream are awesome the handles are way better than fusions nice like heavy weight the metal handles [TS]
00:29:20 ◼ ► Harry has also the gift that gives back Harry supports the community by donating one percent of sales and volunteer [TS]
00:29:28 ◼ ► City Year the Heart Is there a time for thanks and giving and giving Harry something you can feel good about. [TS]
00:29:33 ◼ ► Go to Harry's dot com now and get five dollars off a winter Winston set with the code A.T.P. Holiday. [TS]
00:29:42 ◼ ► Here is getting all new and existing Harry's customers five dollars off the winter Winston set. [TS]
00:29:52 ◼ ► Holiday at checkout for five dollars off the winter Winston. Harry is good enough to gift you know. [TS]
00:30:00 ◼ ► I like best about the Harrys handle the shaving handle thing. It's not shaped like some part of a transformer. [TS]
00:30:07 ◼ ► Yeah like I'm holding a tiny skinny robot in my hand I don't know when that started maybe I think it started [TS]
00:30:12 ◼ ► when I was a teenager the razor handles had to look like Transformers to make any sense. Like make it comfortable. [TS]
00:30:25 ◼ ► However you probably should have a R R Y as dot com hirees I tell you what talk about today which it's because as if [TS]
00:30:41 ◼ ► and he had a pretty cool today which is from what I gather where you can there are several buttons that will let you do [TS]
00:30:56 ◼ ► or yesterday recently that if he wants to continue to have his app in the App Store he needs to take away those buttons [TS]
00:31:04 ◼ ► from his today which it which was effectively the entire today widget so here it is he's getting told you cannot have [TS]
00:31:14 ◼ ► Anything that involves like creation is I forget how he phrased it on between front of me because something along the [TS]
00:31:23 ◼ ► Right well so and I think we need to be very clear on this because a lot of the tweets [TS]
00:31:31 ◼ ► and it's important that if we're talking with us we're talking about the right thing. [TS]
00:31:39 ◼ ► but it appears that the reason why Apple is not letting him have those buttons in the ad is not because they are [TS]
00:31:45 ◼ ► buttons necessarily it is because they launch the app from the widget to complete a task or to do a task in the app [TS]
00:31:54 ◼ ► and that is what Apple is saying you can't do whether you agree with that or not we will we can talk about it. [TS]
00:32:01 ◼ ► Apple is not saying you can't have buttons they're saying you can't launch the app from the extension to complete a [TS]
00:32:08 ◼ ► task was that something that was known beforehand or they just decide that now or seemingly make it up. [TS]
00:32:16 ◼ ► and you know Monte underscore underscore in the chat room is saying that Evernote does that exactly Marco I know that [TS]
00:32:24 ◼ ► This is as John was saying earlier part of the problem with app review that a lot of times the rules are not enforced [TS]
00:32:33 ◼ ► and they made like a little note to their boss saying hey we might want to consider the the the policy [TS]
00:32:39 ◼ ► and what they can do this or not and then you know eventually they make that decision and then get hit by a [TS]
00:32:45 ◼ ► and then maybe Evernote will get hit by you know in the future next and they try to update [TS]
00:32:51 ◼ ► Who knows but the point is these rules are evolving and it's really a bad scene for for all parties involved. [TS]
00:32:59 ◼ ► I think Apple is obviously you know Apple is never going to say these are the rules they are set in stone [TS]
00:33:05 ◼ ► and they're complete They even say in the rules document I think it says in the intro that it's like a living document [TS]
00:33:13 ◼ ► and rules are going to they're going to figure out new rules that the fact they change over time like we've been [TS]
00:33:18 ◼ ► expecting a change or time to be change in response to changing markets to be refined and made more specific [TS]
00:33:26 ◼ ► That's why it's so important to do the thing that Apple seems not to do that well which is explain the motivations [TS]
00:33:32 ◼ ► because if you say here's a set of rules and what we're trying to do with these rules is [TS]
00:33:36 ◼ ► and then explain their motivations because the motivations let you say well the rule doesn't say anything about the [TS]
00:33:42 ◼ ► but it doesn't violate the spirit of the law we have the letter of the law we don't necessarily have the Spirit. [TS]
00:33:52 ◼ ► or you know usually you can tell if you're trying to skirt a rule like you know you do in there [TS]
00:34:00 ◼ ► James Thompson's Peacock very made a pig out of a calendar application on the Mac. [TS]
00:34:08 ◼ ► And he made a little calculator in in the today which is you know just about a number pad [TS]
00:34:16 ◼ ► and that the whole time he was making that he's like boy this is a perfect example of a today widget because it just so [TS]
00:34:23 ◼ ► happens that in an extremely simplified version of the functionality of my application fits within a today widget [TS]
00:34:28 ◼ ► because you know the count to the big calculator app is very complicated and it's got a customizable keyboard [TS]
00:34:36 ◼ ► But I can give you a simple add a bunch of numbers together thing here and he got rejected [TS]
00:34:49 ◼ ► and studied over the seasons I was it was announced until now working on this widget. [TS]
00:34:55 ◼ ► Never in a million years thinking this widget is going to get rejected because you're not allowed to have calculators [TS]
00:35:01 ◼ ► today which it just didn't even occur to him because looking at the rules there's nothing from what he could divine [TS]
00:35:06 ◼ ► from the spirit of the rules that said this type of thing would cause it to be rejected. [TS]
00:35:11 ◼ ► Now I'm pretty sure this is fairly quickly reversed and I think it's back in the store now or never. [TS]
00:35:16 ◼ ► but it was it was reversed after we all loudly publicized it through all you know because he's he's a well known [TS]
00:35:21 ◼ ► developer a long time Apple developer there was lots of stories that why it got reversed. [TS]
00:35:29 ◼ ► but that type of experience where you where you think you're doing exactly what Apple wants like you can you're coming [TS]
00:35:34 ◼ ► home from everything you're like boy I'm totally on board with this thing I'm going to make a great I'm going to take [TS]
00:35:40 ◼ ► advantage of these new baby eyes you made like that's what he's trying to get to do here is here's this new software. [TS]
00:35:44 ◼ ► Here it is new you guys know go out there make something great with it and you do it [TS]
00:35:47 ◼ ► and just like nope rejected me like What do you mean rejecting you know you have no recourse you know the appeals [TS]
00:35:56 ◼ ► and you just don't understand you say I didn't think I was skirting a rule I didn't think I was. Close to any line. [TS]
00:36:01 ◼ ► Nothing in these things would indicate to me that I would ever get rejected any just get rejected [TS]
00:36:08 ◼ ► and the opportunity maybe maybe not to you never getting an explanation of why it happened or least public one [TS]
00:36:14 ◼ ► and there's nothing in there you know what are you trying to do with it what are you trying to direct you haven't [TS]
00:36:20 ◼ ► you're launching other applications putting advertisements in there no you putting a tiny little game [TS]
00:36:28 ◼ ► It's like it's exactly what you think you're supposed to do so that type of stuff. [TS]
00:36:32 ◼ ► You know again frustration by proxy I don't have an afternoon after that doesn't affect me [TS]
00:36:46 ◼ ► and I think you know what you just said about like he was like putting a little game in there anything like I think [TS]
00:36:51 ◼ ► that should be allowed to like I think what we're seeing here is Apple is is obviously still trying to figure out what [TS]
00:36:59 ◼ ► the rules around this are and I think the rules should have already been decided for the most part [TS]
00:37:06 ◼ ► and I think they are exerting a lot more like nanny state level control over this than is warranted because you know [TS]
00:37:13 ◼ ► from there and secondarily maybe the reason they don't want apps to launch themselves [TS]
00:37:19 ◼ ► or other apps from notifications or from their view maybe there's a security angle on that. [TS]
00:37:25 ◼ ► I don't know if there is a security angle on that. Apple should fix that security angle and allow it. That's stupid. [TS]
00:37:33 ◼ ► So you know maybe maybe this is security thing and that's the reason we have been told that. [TS]
00:37:40 ◼ ► and then allowing I think what we're seeing here is Apple saying here's this great new system we've made very powerful [TS]
00:37:48 ◼ ► but we're going to be extremely cautious so that we don't allow users to make a bad experience for themselves that that [TS]
00:38:00 ◼ ► Like in the process of adding a today widget to your to your today view is pretty deliberate like it doesn't like you [TS]
00:38:19 ◼ ► and are certain are going to be able doing accidentally too many times not even knowing how they did it [TS]
00:38:24 ◼ ► and it's considerably harder than say accepting push notifications for an app right. [TS]
00:38:31 ◼ ► Like you have to actually go into your today view and go to only to the area whatever it is [TS]
00:38:43 ◼ ► So you have chosen to download this app you have chosen to add its widget to today view I don't think Apple needs to be [TS]
00:38:51 ◼ ► as protective of what's there because the user has chosen to put this here please I am Want This is so important to me. [TS]
00:38:59 ◼ ► I want this in my today because today view it doesn't scale well to having tons of crap there like you're going to be [TS]
00:39:08 ◼ ► So Apple's concern if I had to guess it's about keeping that simple and lightweight [TS]
00:39:14 ◼ ► but they don't have to do that because the process of adding those things already so deliberate and difficult [TS]
00:39:19 ◼ ► and it doesn't handle having a lot in there just design wise already that I think anything that an app is allowed to do [TS]
00:39:27 ◼ ► in itself it should be allowed to do there too I don't think Apple is is doing itself or its customers [TS]
00:39:35 ◼ ► and its developers any favors by trying to say well you can you can put things here and it's a U.I. [TS]
00:39:47 ◼ ► but we only want to be for these quick glance kind of tasks like that's a really hard line to draw we're seeing the [TS]
00:39:53 ◼ ► problems with them trying to draw that line and I think it's it's just it's a bad idea to even try it. [TS]
00:40:00 ◼ ► On that line I think if somebody downloads a game let's say it's a game that puts palm in your notification center it's [TS]
00:40:06 ◼ ► a punk game and you can install the pond today widget and you can play upon in your today view. [TS]
00:40:19 ◼ ► but if you want to do that as a user why does Apple have to say no you can't do that that's not what this is for that's [TS]
00:40:27 ◼ ► you have to go to the app for that like you chose to get the app you chose to put it in notification center. [TS]
00:40:31 ◼ ► You chose to bring it into play pong with it like this is not something that I see ripe for abuse from developers if [TS]
00:40:42 ◼ ► Do you suspect that after he was part of Federico his organization if I had to guess I would say Schiller's because a [TS]
00:40:49 ◼ ► threat part of developer relations I think which is part of Schiller's Right I agree. [TS]
00:40:53 ◼ ► Well could it be something as simple as you know as far as Engineering's concerned it's it's the Wild West in a good [TS]
00:41:07 ◼ ► But Short Well all right so very Q Is the app store guy right there in the App Store [TS]
00:41:12 ◼ ► and so peek out the great thing with peek out as status now plan a chat room that pickup was accepted Peacocke was [TS]
00:41:20 ◼ ► promoted a bit like the big banner in the App Store at the big art we're going to rethink except in the App Store [TS]
00:41:28 ◼ ► Right so people who are responsible are saying hey here's an application to demonstrate like this is a great I.O.'s out [TS]
00:41:36 ◼ ► Bubble blah whatever like they choose what to promote That's chillers organization maybe but E.Q. [TS]
00:41:44 ◼ ► but it's it seems entirely plausible that one hand know what the other hand was doing on the one hand some people are [TS]
00:41:53 ◼ ► and on the other hand someone else is rejecting peek out because I think you should have a calculator thing that saves [TS]
00:42:00 ◼ ► And then the app was under rejected but it just it it's not it does not inspire confidence in the organization [TS]
00:42:06 ◼ ► when stuff like that happens because like guys talk to each other figure out you know what's going on here [TS]
00:42:11 ◼ ► and especially because again we're trying to divine the motivations are like could we have forseen this is there [TS]
00:42:22 ◼ ► or private communication about today which it's that would indicate to you before hand that this thing was even close [TS]
00:42:28 ◼ ► to any boundaries of something they didn't want to have because it's not you know as much as your spirited defense of [TS]
00:42:35 ◼ ► Because of the way today center with its work I think anybody doing that could have a reason I expect ation that you [TS]
00:42:40 ◼ ► are outside the bounds of what does a center which it is supposed to be because it's so far out of the bounds of [TS]
00:42:46 ◼ ► But Apple has shown things that are exactly like a calculator and I got a small degree interactive graph [TS]
00:42:56 ◼ ► or a couple buttons you can press you know it's adding numbers for crying out loud I mean I know there are technical [TS]
00:43:01 ◼ ► limitations on today's center webpage just in terms of like today center whatever the hell these things limitations on [TS]
00:43:09 ◼ ► like when your abs going to be instantiated how quickly you're going to be torn down [TS]
00:43:13 ◼ ► and like you know you're not you can't cram in you can take a long time to initialize you that you don't have a long [TS]
00:43:18 ◼ ► time to tear yourself down you're getting pulled out like there are limitations and putting in [TS]
00:43:22 ◼ ► but if you if you're working within that context you know something like a procedurally drawing punk game [TS]
00:43:31 ◼ ► So it's not just in the make any sense and so when Apple does that I go to the bad blood I was talking about [TS]
00:43:37 ◼ ► when stuff like that happens you know like it's not a big deal but it gave one developer a lot of stress for a day [TS]
00:43:45 ◼ ► and it makes it look like Apple is an organization that doesn't have its stuff together you know. [TS]
00:43:54 ◼ ► Like there's a lot like I mean I don't have any plans for today which I don't think makes a lot of sense for ever. [TS]
00:44:00 ◼ ► But if I had planned for it I would certainly be reconsidering them now because I don't know like as a developer like [TS]
00:44:07 ◼ ► should I invest a few months into doing something that will very possibly get my app rejected in the future [TS]
00:44:17 ◼ ► and you know especially for apps like draft like Peacock where it's a bigger undertaking it's it's a bigger selling [TS]
00:44:25 ◼ ► I don't know that I would be developing for an innovation center which is right now it's not it's just not worth the [TS]
00:44:29 ◼ ► risk and I was shocked about something that's cool that maybe will make us a little happier than this fiasco. [TS]
00:44:40 ◼ ► Building Web site used to take a long time you to set it all up yourself manually spend all day troubleshooting ran [TS]
00:44:46 ◼ ► random errors and stuff if you ever had to edit the site to be pretty easy to break your links [TS]
00:44:50 ◼ ► or even break the whole site break the layout put in like a space in the wrong place and break your P.H.P. [TS]
00:45:07 ◼ ► but now there's more with the brand new square space seven square zero seven has a whole bunch of really new features [TS]
00:45:13 ◼ ► including a redesigned user interface and integration with Google Apps for your domain. [TS]
00:45:18 ◼ ► You can have like your scripts based a main register there you can have your apps there you can e-mail spreadsheets [TS]
00:45:26 ◼ ► and they also have a new partnership with Getty Images so you can get forty million high quality photos for your site [TS]
00:45:33 ◼ ► or something in there that you need you need an image for your site if you've ever tried to buy like a you know stock [TS]
00:45:45 ◼ ► I didn't for the magazine and I know how expensive that can be and how complicated that can be. [TS]
00:45:49 ◼ ► They worked out a great partnership with Getty so that you can pick eighty forty million forty million high quality [TS]
00:45:54 ◼ ► photos for a post for a header image for a background image whatever you need for just. [TS]
00:46:02 ◼ ► and they take care of all of for you browse right in the square space interface is really great. [TS]
00:46:08 ◼ ► Anyway they also have fifteen new design templates what's crisp a seven Eva Green feature called cover pages. [TS]
00:46:17 ◼ ► or it can be your site you can have it like a nice single one page site you can put it up temporarily or permanently. [TS]
00:46:24 ◼ ► You can do it it's like a splash page to have promote promoting a sale you're having are promoting a special [TS]
00:46:32 ◼ ► We're going to have a nice trendy intro page to your full site they make it beautiful to make it easy [TS]
00:46:42 ◼ ► and now it's really easy with square space all this very simple very powerful beautiful designs you can customize it [TS]
00:46:49 ◼ ► was much as you want you can be a nerd like us and actually inject H.T.M.L. C.S.S. [TS]
00:46:56 ◼ ► Or you can use their drag and drop wizard and it's all very easy is great I love using square space [TS]
00:47:02 ◼ ► and there's so much there that like I you know our site for the show is built on Squarespace I built a square space [TS]
00:47:13 ◼ ► There are so many use cases for that you don't have even if you know how to build websites. [TS]
00:47:19 ◼ ► and this is I would recommend using space for so many things that previously you try to do yourself [TS]
00:47:31 ◼ ► Start building your own site when you decide to sign up. Plants are just eight dollars a month. [TS]
00:47:47 ◼ ► We thank Chris bass once again for sponsoring our show Squarespace start here go anywhere do you want to go totally mad [TS]
00:47:53 ◼ ► and talk about pod casting because people love that. So our friend Alan Pike steam clock software I wrote a great. [TS]
00:48:02 ◼ ► They basically considered and started researching the possibility of making a pod cast double and or recording app [TS]
00:48:10 ◼ ► and in the post they go through the rationale for why they wanted it there at the Wireless think it was a market [TS]
00:48:18 ◼ ► and rents numbers they realize they actually shouldn't make it because there just aren't enough Pod casters to really [TS]
00:48:30 ◼ ► So our friend Rob Reiner Martian craft wrote kind of a follow up maybe a counterpoint argument to it. [TS]
00:48:37 ◼ ► Basically saying you're targeting professionals you know somebody who uses an app to make their ticket to do their work [TS]
00:48:52 ◼ ► and so maybe so he was saying maybe there is a way to charge more money to the to the small number of pockets which you [TS]
00:49:01 ◼ ► What do you think of these when you read them I thought they were both really really good posts. [TS]
00:49:06 ◼ ► What I loved about Allan's was that here was someone who actually put a little bit of thought into what he was doing [TS]
00:49:19 ◼ ► and really thought about OK is this a viable business which is a much better way of going about things than just [TS]
00:49:31 ◼ ► and then Rob Reiner's was equally great because he was saying well if you spend it one or two other ways that you may [TS]
00:49:44 ◼ ► And certainly both of them have built successful businesses by making intelligent business decisions [TS]
00:49:52 ◼ ► and I think Martian craft is quite a bit bigger than steam clock so you could make an argument that Rob is coming from [TS]
00:50:06 ◼ ► or not you care about how the three of us make our podcast it's still an interesting thought process with regard to [TS]
00:50:17 ◼ ► When I read the original post about hey we're thinking about making this particular thing up which is something I think [TS]
00:50:22 ◼ ► we've talked about on the show before about the weird hodgepodge of things we used to do the podcast [TS]
00:50:27 ◼ ► and how one app that put it all together would be nice if we always had the same thing as around in this thing well an [TS]
00:50:33 ◼ ► app to put all the other be nicer but the total market for people who need this app is small [TS]
00:50:38 ◼ ► and you know probably those those people even if you sold every single one of them is probably still not a viable [TS]
00:50:47 ◼ ► when reading the original post about this app is just how incredibly hard it would be to do this apple Well because it [TS]
00:50:54 ◼ ► encompasses so many other applications that are in themselves complicated hard to do applications and [TS]
00:51:00 ◼ ► and connecting things together is I think even harder than making a good audio editor a good audio recorder you know a [TS]
00:51:07 ◼ ► good you know Skype type application where you want to call those voice communicate like trying to either integrate [TS]
00:51:15 ◼ ► multiple apps or build those things in have them all work together is just incredibly hard to do a good job [TS]
00:51:22 ◼ ► and I think that just the development job on this would be I'm not going to say it's harder than voters office [TS]
00:51:28 ◼ ► or a shop is a very full featured application but it's part of the forest up one point now I can tell you that right. [TS]
00:51:33 ◼ ► To do all that all the things that all the things that we do with the separate applications as well as we're able to do [TS]
00:51:40 ◼ ► them with separate applications in the first verse because that's what you would need to be like especially for techno [TS]
00:51:46 ◼ ► type people think well we get the job done now but it would be nice if we didn't have these hassles. [TS]
00:51:51 ◼ ► But how much you know how much money I willing to give up for that and that's what that other fellow post is about [TS]
00:52:01 ◼ ► Well if I got this application and the pricing isn't a problem but I get better results [TS]
00:52:09 ◼ ► So is the downgrading controller quality or whatever for the one point overs as products. [TS]
00:52:14 ◼ ► You know it's it's a tough sell even for the people who you know. Money's no object we don't care about the pricing. [TS]
00:52:21 ◼ ► What are you giving me that is an improvement over what I have and especially just out the gate. [TS]
00:52:27 ◼ ► I just can't don't see how it's going to be as good as whatever system everyone's using. [TS]
00:52:31 ◼ ► If you going to sell to new people hey you don't know how to use the seven applications [TS]
00:52:35 ◼ ► and I guess it's really annoying if you don't want to have to deal that stuff or learn all that sort of witchcraft. [TS]
00:52:41 ◼ ► Get this one application then I think you'd have a better shot at selling them because they don't know what it's like [TS]
00:52:49 ◼ ► and all the things that we use to sort of make this all work together. They don't know how to do all that. [TS]
00:53:02 ◼ ► but don't want to learn all the other applications like how many new podcasts are coming on the scene at this point [TS]
00:53:07 ◼ ► and how many of those people have Macs and you know the whole idea of like where you build the sentiment to link [TS]
00:53:13 ◼ ► and download an application a little hook em into the zapper never like man I would not want to try to make the first [TS]
00:53:23 ◼ ► So this application terrifies me from a development perspective because I think it would be really really hard to do [TS]
00:53:41 ◼ ► but for sort of expert level applications there is a market for a really really difficult to use tool that is really [TS]
00:53:52 ◼ ► but is also like full of bugs in the vendor is annoying like there's a long history of applications where you can think [TS]
00:54:01 ◼ ► Even Photoshop to some degree is like those things exist so that must be a maybe that's less possible today than it was [TS]
00:54:09 ◼ ► but I still think those those type of applications exist but I don't know if people want to be in that software. [TS]
00:54:15 ◼ ► Even something like not Final Cut final draft is actually kind of a weird example of that where you know most of those [TS]
00:54:22 ◼ ► journalists like us really there's one application that everybody has to use They've got entrenched [TS]
00:54:27 ◼ ► and the vendor is not the best vendor and people kind of have this love hate relationship with it [TS]
00:54:41 ◼ ► and software vendor relationship I feel like so I wouldn't I wouldn't want to go into that. [TS]
00:54:45 ◼ ► Even though it appears to be a viable business work experience is another example to kind of eventually went sour right. [TS]
00:54:59 ◼ ► and the other side of it I was talking about like hey make it easy to use integrated my first pod casting out that will [TS]
00:55:04 ◼ ► not give you as good a result as using the dedicated expensive applications in this mishmash with Mark a special custom [TS]
00:55:13 ◼ ► and really hard to pull off that I think is less viable because I just think there are fewer people trying to do [TS]
00:55:20 ◼ ► podcasting That way if anything I think the only way you get entry of app like that is to target I us [TS]
00:55:29 ◼ ► Connector or some something like that. But then my head hurts just thinking about this. [TS]
00:55:34 ◼ ► Yeah I mean that's like the there's a number of big problems with trying to make an app or about casting [TS]
00:55:40 ◼ ► and you know you nailed most of them it's like like the first of all having to work with everybody's set ups is not [TS]
00:55:47 ◼ ► trivial because this is a world where there's a huge variety a huge range of diversity of of hardware [TS]
00:56:01 ◼ ► You know logical setups of like you know what are you do you have four people together in a studio recording onto a [TS]
00:56:06 ◼ ► multitrack mixer Do you have four people on Skype who are all trying to talk at the same time do you have [TS]
00:56:12 ◼ ► or are you recording church sermons and putting that out as a feeder you're recording off of a phone. [TS]
00:56:27 ◼ ► There's also the huge variations in budget a lot of these are a lot of pod casts are produced in radio studios [TS]
00:56:33 ◼ ► and a lot of them are produced on people's laptops and there's everything in between. [TS]
00:56:38 ◼ ► And all of that you have applied to what really is a very small number of producers you know overcast entire directory [TS]
00:56:46 ◼ ► every feed I know exists. I think I have a little over two hundred thousand of them. [TS]
00:56:52 ◼ ► What I've heard I've heard rumors about the size of i Tunes a directory being somewhere around the five hundred [TS]
00:56:59 ◼ ► and if I look at the number of so over Catherine I had about one hundred eighty thousand users of those only about I [TS]
00:57:15 ◼ ► but I think that's a that they can give you some idea of like roughly how many pod cast how many distinct pod casts are [TS]
00:57:22 ◼ ► even listened to by more than a couple of people and so I would put the number around you know fifty thousand maybe. [TS]
00:57:31 ◼ ► So you think about how many producers is that not you know not not every one of those fifty thousand that has listeners [TS]
00:57:39 ◼ ► There's a lot of people who produce many shows radio stations Park has networks so you know how many how many people [TS]
00:57:47 ◼ ► actually edit pod cast that are listened to by more than a couple of people that numbers are getting smaller [TS]
00:57:53 ◼ ► and yes as you go to the step the search area well how many people might how many people could even use an app I make. [TS]
00:58:00 ◼ ► And I would say generously the number of unique pod cast producers is probably less than ten thousand possibly a lot [TS]
00:58:10 ◼ ► less than ten thousand how many of them would be even willing to use my app because a lot of these people have their [TS]
00:58:18 ◼ ► when you can sleep the pro content production of like you know the pro software markets you got to fight with people [TS]
00:58:24 ◼ ► who used to work flows so you have to say Well look I I probably wouldn't use an Apple because I you know I that I had [TS]
00:58:37 ◼ ► and it's only two hundred bucks I think are three hundred two hundred so it's only two hundred bucks. [TS]
00:58:48 ◼ ► and I the only person using it since I know the number using it for public housing the small [TS]
00:58:53 ◼ ► but like the number of people using this is going to be big enough that if there's a major bug it'll probably get [TS]
00:59:01 ◼ ► and I know that like you know I can buy this knowing that it's going to probably work on the next version of macro S. [TS]
00:59:07 ◼ ► Tense I will I won't be like stuck after an upgrade. It's probably maybe going to be maintained in the future. [TS]
00:59:13 ◼ ► Like all these like you know fears that you know no one ever got fired for buying I.B.M. [TS]
00:59:17 ◼ ► With that kind of thing like you don't want to be conservative in your choice of Pro Tools. [TS]
00:59:23 ◼ ► And so a small app would have to fight against all of those factors for the chance to possibly win a small percentage [TS]
00:59:34 ◼ ► The worst thing for the other app competing in this area is that the other applications that people are using just have [TS]
00:59:42 ◼ ► to add a few features to their existing mature applications like so audio editing outright. [TS]
00:59:52 ◼ ► or three features focused on podcasting say if they built in your audio alignment thing for multi-track stuff it's like [TS]
01:00:00 ◼ ► Each one of each one of constituent apps that you use for each function like a Skype add some features focused on [TS]
01:00:05 ◼ ► podcasting of logic if you just sort of pod casting it like you know square space already has features focus on [TS]
01:00:11 ◼ ► podcasting like the integration of like all the different pieces that we put there in the gather. [TS]
01:00:21 ◼ ► and tools that are useful for people who do large multitrack podcasts and Ike And that's it [TS]
01:00:27 ◼ ► and it was so easy for them to do because there are already a great audio editor there are already a widely used [TS]
01:00:36 ◼ ► It's just so hard to compete in all this said like someone did an amazing job on an application I guess even if you [TS]
01:00:41 ◼ ► didn't do everything in-house even if it said you know edit audio an external advert [TS]
01:00:51 ◼ ► Even that I think we would all be willing to try because we would like it to be easier so I don't think it's not like [TS]
01:01:09 ◼ ► and was an amazing developer it would be a benefit to the world but as a business it's it's tough right [TS]
01:01:15 ◼ ► and worth their fine two point one There is an app for editing called Hinton Berg look H. [TS]
01:01:26 ◼ ► I kind of found the name distasteful because that's kind of a treasure that killed people [TS]
01:01:29 ◼ ► but anyway so it's it's a it's a dedicated like radio journalism part has journalism kind of Abbott's made it's made [TS]
01:01:36 ◼ ► for radio journalist to produce that that's not a podcast it is three hundred seventy five dollars to use commercially [TS]
01:01:55 ◼ ► and make enough money to survive because a number of purchase customers are so small here. [TS]
01:02:00 ◼ ► So that's another thing to consider like there are alternative editing apps and they I don't know anybody [TS]
01:02:07 ◼ ► and in Berg and I mean granted I don't know a lot of radio journalists but I'm sure they have users [TS]
01:02:15 ◼ ► and clarify is that you know Alan Pike's potential product was not an editing product it was just something to do the [TS]
01:02:23 ◼ ► and the number of people who do that style of pod cast production is even smaller than the number of producers. [TS]
01:02:28 ◼ ► That's like that's a fairly rare way to produce a punk as where everybody records there and [TS]
01:02:36 ◼ ► That's what a few of the shows do that we know but most shows that have remote guests just record Skype [TS]
01:02:45 ◼ ► but then you avoid sync issues you avoid trying to get the person to select the right input for that for the program [TS]
01:02:51 ◼ ► that's recording the thing or having them having them have to buy piazza or call recorder [TS]
01:02:57 ◼ ► or something like that like it avoids a lot of issues to just record a Skype feeds that's what most people do. [TS]
01:03:02 ◼ ► That was that was one of the big pitches of this is like the difficulty of getting guests like so if you're going to [TS]
01:03:09 ◼ ► and you know you don't want to limit yourself to guess you know how to do pod casting you have to have some way to say [TS]
01:03:20 ◼ ► and you will be able to talk to us over the Internet in a way that you will be participating in a live podcast [TS]
01:03:27 ◼ ► and it's kind of like the same problem like concrete copal is trying to solve a radio you need to screen share with [TS]
01:03:35 ◼ ► It's difficult over the phone to you know get them to initiate screen Jerrine So here he just send them an email has a [TS]
01:03:42 ◼ ► link to click the link because three buttons and your you're connected to them right. [TS]
01:03:49 ◼ ► and I think that problem is easier than the problem of hey do these simple steps person who's not too familiar with [TS]
01:03:55 ◼ ► computers and you are now talking live with me and possibly recording your own locally on your. [TS]
01:04:00 ◼ ► It's going to surely fast enough to keep up with this and you want to like it just [TS]
01:04:05 ◼ ► and it's just doing that part of it just the guest application even that is really hard to do. Co-pilot. [TS]
01:04:12 ◼ ► I don't know that's the thing I've tried to use it a few times the mac version did not go well for me. [TS]
01:04:18 ◼ ► Kind of I kind of sort of got it to limp through what it was I paid for it like many times like they had abysmal [TS]
01:04:27 ◼ ► In desperation I've tried it it's a good idea but it was not smooth sailing at all [TS]
01:04:32 ◼ ► and so even that's not a solved problem many people have tried including Apple with the i Chat stuff [TS]
01:04:39 ◼ ► and podcast until it has a certain degree of built in complexity like you're dealing with microphones [TS]
01:04:44 ◼ ► and people's random computer's random environments and random internet connections. [TS]
01:04:50 ◼ ► There's a reason why I like you know if you have a regular show with regular guests like the three of us it's worth it [TS]
01:04:57 ◼ ► whether for the three of us to have like you know each recorded separately because we're always the same people all [TS]
01:05:03 ◼ ► three of us were willing and able to buy a nice microphone and have a quiet room where you record [TS]
01:05:09 ◼ ► and you use software that records it and we tragically able to do that and to do it reliably and [TS]
01:05:21 ◼ ► So none of these things are problems for us. So that's why we choose to do the show that way. [TS]
01:05:25 ◼ ► But again like like if you're if you're having a new guest every week that's a tough thing to coordinate [TS]
01:05:31 ◼ ► and it's you know it's hard enough getting them a microphone to even use Skype properly [TS]
01:05:36 ◼ ► and you know to add in the complexity of are you recording the right thing in going to send me your file that's you [TS]
01:05:47 ◼ ► and it's not in the way the big shows do this by the way the way the big shows do the how do you get a guest up [TS]
01:05:53 ◼ ► and running in everything as they throw humans that like so someone will contact you the day [TS]
01:06:03 ◼ ► and walk you through laboriously over the phone over video over whatever they can do to make sure your setup is correct [TS]
01:06:13 ◼ ► and validated to be working by one member of their staff that is incredibly expensive as a way more expensive than [TS]
01:06:18 ◼ ► buying a three hundred dollar application or a five hundred thousand or application [TS]
01:06:23 ◼ ► but that has a lot higher chance of success I think than the application will take care of it for you probably still [TS]
01:06:30 ◼ ► going to need that human to walk the person through these supposedly so simple set up because of physical factors not [TS]
01:06:38 ◼ ► and beyond all that like if you go to take Rob Reiner's approach of saying like well they charge more money like this [TS]
01:06:43 ◼ ► is where the people beyond all the problems of it being a really small market of people who are producing these things [TS]
01:06:49 ◼ ► and want to try your app is also some severe budget problems for most people like most people you know podcasting is a [TS]
01:06:56 ◼ ► podcasting well are using high quality stuff is already a tough sell because you're already asking people to spend a [TS]
01:07:03 ◼ ► few hundred dollars on it on a decent mike in some kind of setup there may be a pop filter maybe anti-shock thing like [TS]
01:07:25 ◼ ► Already most people are not willing to do that most pod cast are not produced that way. [TS]
01:07:32 ◼ ► and I fill in my stuff like that like it's there you know they don't sound very good [TS]
01:07:35 ◼ ► but a lot of people like you can ask like you know maybe maybe some church recording it's sermons [TS]
01:07:41 ◼ ► and everything they don't have maybe the money to buy logic you know like there's like there's all this so many [TS]
01:07:46 ◼ ► processors out there who are not going to be spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on software [TS]
01:07:53 ◼ ► and gear to do this and that's like that will always be the case that is always going to be most produce. [TS]
01:08:00 ◼ ► There's we're going to be doing it as a hobby or on a low budget and you have to account for that and so that's like. [TS]
01:08:06 ◼ ► I agree I agree with Rob Ryan that you that a professional app should be priced accordingly [TS]
01:08:14 ◼ ► but I don't think there's enough pod cast producers to ever support something like this any time soon. [TS]
01:08:27 ◼ ► and all the stuff it does everything is high quality the integrated is relatively bug free like that really provides [TS]
01:08:38 ◼ ► but the prerequisite is you actually have an application that helps people make money like that. [TS]
01:08:46 ◼ ► and less time that has fewer bugs that its features that would be difficult you know like they can replace a fractional [TS]
01:08:57 ◼ ► but even then it's borderline because you don't have the benefit I think it was another Joe article like the different [TS]
01:09:06 ◼ ► and by the the street the sort of consumer applications that you can sell to an individual who's going to buy you know [TS]
01:09:13 ◼ ► application for like you know the buy for shop for themselves or whatever and then [TS]
01:09:19 ◼ ► or maybe like a small monthly subscription fee then there's a gigantic chasm and then your starting price thirty grand. [TS]
01:09:25 ◼ ► Right and that's like and and I write software you're selling it to a business to business. [TS]
01:09:33 ◼ ► or you know let's use the Oracle pricing model how the percentage of revenue has that feel to how much money do you [TS]
01:09:39 ◼ ► have not profit revenue yet contact us for pricing that is just a huge a huge gap between like a couple hundred bucks [TS]
01:09:47 ◼ ► maybe pushing a thousand and then up into the multiple thousands and there's not much in that middle ground there [TS]
01:09:52 ◼ ► and I don't know park I think is not at the point now where it can be sold as enterprise software for the most part [TS]
01:09:58 ◼ ► there are enterprise that are doing it made. Kind of like I don't know maybe like Twitter or T.V. [TS]
01:10:05 ◼ ► but even those I think of like to go shop I guess is not you know you can sell them thirty grand Pike I think they're [TS]
01:10:12 ◼ ► and I don't know if that market will ever exist for sort of enterprise level sales because even in the entertainment [TS]
01:10:23 ◼ ► Whereas Oracle you know helps the businesses and their their checks have a lot of zero. [TS]
01:10:29 ◼ ► So well in the end all the proposed casters who were doing it like from studios are as part of bigger companies they [TS]
01:10:34 ◼ ► already have their workload established like you're going to get them with a with a new tool at this because they [TS]
01:10:39 ◼ ► already have their already set up with how they do things was started on core intuition semi recently that Daniel [TS]
01:10:46 ◼ ► jacket was talking about how I think this may be fast Cripps is that his as I write a script a little description using [TS]
01:10:53 ◼ ► the keyboard circuits and so he had written it in had like Percy licensing model or something like that [TS]
01:11:02 ◼ ► and then he got approached by some company and they said we want to buy it for the entire company [TS]
01:11:10 ◼ ► but I parent he came up with some number that he thought was so ridiculous they would basically laugh at him [TS]
01:11:16 ◼ ► and that's kind of what you guys are talking about is you know you find there's eventually at a time [TS]
01:11:27 ◼ ► but I agree with you that finding podcasters to do this is going to be challenging. [TS]
01:11:32 ◼ ► Yeah and maybe someday there will be enough Pod casters to make this a viable market. [TS]
01:11:45 ◼ ► but I'm even making this app like we're pretty far from there being enough to support things like this. [TS]
01:11:51 ◼ ► So in conclusion somebody make this awesome apps we will buy it and tell you what's wrong with it [TS]
01:11:56 ◼ ► and you out of business then I probably wouldn't buy it. I already have our workflow. [TS]
01:12:05 ◼ ► We would send one of us to go get it probably Marco Marco try to not use it because he doesn't like things that other [TS]
01:12:21 ◼ ► and I are of an age where we grew up trying to find ways to acquire things without paying a lot of money. [TS]
01:12:30 ◼ ► And well I think I speak for all of us and saying we're willing to spend money here and there when it's appropriate [TS]
01:12:39 ◼ ► If we have a workflow that works that is not something that we necessarily that's not a problem in a surly want to [TS]
01:13:08 ◼ ► and affordable way to help you learn with high quality easy to follow video tutorials instantly three [TS]
01:13:13 ◼ ► and thousands of courses created by experts on software web development graphic design [TS]
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01:13:24 ◼ ► when The dot com is fresh new course at a daily they work directly with industry experts [TS]
01:13:29 ◼ ► Often the same day new versions or releases hit the market so you can always stay up to speed there for course [TS]
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01:13:54 ◼ ► skip around by clicking parts in the transcripts. Their play lists they have course completions. [TS]
01:14:06 ◼ ► and Android wondering about one of the icons I like a lot is that you can watch whenever you want with no pressure [TS]
01:14:16 ◼ ► and they give you access to over over one hundred thousand video tutorials at just twenty five bucks a month unlimited [TS]
01:14:22 ◼ ► access to their entire catalog. This is great you know if you're like me you like to know little about a lot. [TS]
01:14:29 ◼ ► When the common this is where this ties into what we're just saying when the dot com was a big help to me [TS]
01:14:33 ◼ ► and learning how to use logic to edit this podcast and to make the audio sound there were things like compressors [TS]
01:14:42 ◼ ► I really like this phase and like you can just biologic spend twenty five bucks a month or one that I come and [TS]
01:14:50 ◼ ► and learn to do all this yourself with those tools and you don't need to buy anything else anyway. [TS]
01:14:56 ◼ ► When the dot com also offers an annual premium plan you can download courses to your i Phone i Pad or Android app [TS]
01:15:01 ◼ ► and watch them offline. You can also get sample files of the premium plan and practice law instructor. [TS]
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01:15:21 ◼ ► can learn final cut. You can even learn soft skills like management and negotiation. When did I come in so useful. [TS]
01:15:29 ◼ ► and most of the Ivy League schools offer Lynda dot com subscriptions to their students and faculty members. [TS]
01:15:34 ◼ ► Anyway check it out there's a lot of great stuff there I like them a lot going to Lynda dot com slash A T P L Y N D A [TS]
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01:15:48 ◼ ► started today and watch as much as you can the next week when the dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]
01:15:56 ◼ ► All right John tell us about the video games on the i Phone. One that you've been playing lately. [TS]
01:16:01 ◼ ► Just one game which I think Marco's blathers I guess you haven't seen the game is cross the road. [TS]
01:16:09 ◼ ► I like the name until I realize that it's probably an attempt to cash in on the flappy bird [TS]
01:16:16 ◼ ► and you made that connection with your I liked it so much better before I mean I still think it's a good name anyway [TS]
01:16:22 ◼ ► the game is like kind of like Frogger if you remember that if you know you can do it like in there far as I want to [TS]
01:16:46 ◼ ► I think we could have easily sell different on United sense but they didn't decide to go free to play. [TS]
01:16:54 ◼ ► But to cross the road is either really bad at free to play which makes it a good or [TS]
01:17:02 ◼ ► or I don't understand how that stuff works so most free to play games have to find some way to get money from you [TS]
01:17:09 ◼ ► somehow in the game by buying things that help you in the game or showing you ads or both [TS]
01:17:17 ◼ ► and has characters that you can use in the game you can buy different character starts off of the chicken you can buy [TS]
01:17:23 ◼ ► all sorts of other characters as in game currency that you get that you can find is that a coin [TS]
01:17:29 ◼ ► and you can use that currency to redeem him kind of like a gumball machine that gives you characters for free [TS]
01:17:35 ◼ ► and the time base mechanic where you get a free gift based on how long you plan to get all the things you kind of an [TS]
01:17:39 ◼ ► energy mechanic how long do you have to play how much longer until I get a new for you to tell me coins I collect [TS]
01:17:44 ◼ ► and you buy the players with actual real money you know ninety nine cents each or whatever [TS]
01:17:52 ◼ ► but the characters don't make the game any easier for you so they don't give you extra powers they don't give you extra. [TS]
01:18:00 ◼ ► Lies they don't give you any time that in fact a lot of the characters make the game harder for you instead of easier. [TS]
01:18:16 ◼ ► but they're not pressuring pressuring you to buy things in the game you can play it and you don't have to buy things [TS]
01:18:27 ◼ ► and they just present you like a little icon shows like a little movie which I don't think. [TS]
01:18:32 ◼ ► Yeah same for Chris too sorry Charles correct me where the hats were they were I was going to have a book [TS]
01:18:42 ◼ ► and then a low calling to him over ever saying hey if you watch this movie we will give you points of course as an ad [TS]
01:18:46 ◼ ► if you tap on that it shows you nad for some other game you know they get some money of that Adam [TS]
01:18:50 ◼ ► and you get this in game currency that you can eventually redeem in little gumball machine for random characters you [TS]
01:18:55 ◼ ► can get These are the same characters that you could buy otherwise free to point it out of might have been Jason [TS]
01:19:00 ◼ ► and his thing I was writing about Christ he wrote that the fundamental problem with their monetization strategy from [TS]
01:19:05 ◼ ► the outside it from some is playing is I think it's more fun not to pay any money to play this game. [TS]
01:19:21 ◼ ► and you don't feel like you're missing anything to feel like boy if I could pay the ninety nine cents I guess I get the [TS]
01:19:25 ◼ ► power that lets me like walk on water for two steps and I would really help you or like there's none of that [TS]
01:19:29 ◼ ► and so it isn't entirely like for the most part friendly to the user not in your face it does prompt a couple times say [TS]
01:19:36 ◼ ► hey do you want notifications when the century our energy meter runs out and you can see [TS]
01:19:42 ◼ ► But you can say no like it presents an end game may be presented a few more times than it should [TS]
01:19:48 ◼ ► They will watch the ads they have the coins because they want to get the other characters so I guess they're getting [TS]
01:19:53 ◼ ► some ad revenue for that but I just look at this game and like boy I wish I could give you some money for this game [TS]
01:20:00 ◼ ► The characters like I've got all the ones I got I got it was more fun for me to get them for free [TS]
01:20:04 ◼ ► and now I have them and they don't make the game any easier anyway so I'm concerned. [TS]
01:20:08 ◼ ► But two things I would start across the road is the development of a millionaire right now is swimming in a bathtub [TS]
01:20:15 ◼ ► but it's puzzling to me because it seems to do everything wrong like from the perspective of the evil free to play [TS]
01:20:25 ◼ ► So I guess what I'm saying is you should all go out and across the road it's a great game [TS]
01:20:32 ◼ ► but I just don't figure out how they would be unless everybody is looking to build them and it wouldn't surprise me [TS]
01:20:38 ◼ ► and I'm trying to look around trying to look at the after DO YOU KNOW WHERE place is on the top grossing list. [TS]
01:20:43 ◼ ► Oh I don't know I don't look at those things because it's number four on the top free list [TS]
01:20:49 ◼ ► but it would not surprise me if it actually if you're right that it actually isn't making that much [TS]
01:20:53 ◼ ► when I don't even when you were describing. I only played a handful of times you know. [TS]
01:20:57 ◼ ► Thanks yeah i literally have all times I don't I don't I don't like the kind of game but like I forgot like [TS]
01:21:06 ◼ ► I'll go and buy in the App Store and I will forget what the up front price is whether it was free [TS]
01:21:10 ◼ ► or not I just want to remember. Because it's like OK so cheap it's a dollar Who cares. [TS]
01:21:19 ◼ ► I played the game a handful of times like you can probably expect many people to have done who have downloaded it I [TS]
01:21:40 ◼ ► and I think people will buy the other characters but I mean to give my other yards they go so far. [TS]
01:21:45 ◼ ► My son who was sent an undisclosed amount of money I spend an undisclosed amount of money on Clash of Clans [TS]
01:21:50 ◼ ► and the amount is large. Well that's that's very different though. But he is susceptible to not purchase. [TS]
01:22:00 ◼ ► It is not fur is not he's not shy about asking me to you know press this button in a way that I can read tweets on the [TS]
01:22:06 ◼ ► day about someone who woke up and found their kid slowly trying to move their finger on to the Touch ID [TS]
01:22:11 ◼ ► and phone call they were asleep to try to do any purchase so you know watches get like he's not shy about asking [TS]
01:22:17 ◼ ► and he has not asked once that shows me that as whoever it is who wrote this again maybe Jason it's more fun to play [TS]
01:22:25 ◼ ► the game to unlock this stuff for free than it is to buy that is more fun so why would you have the other thing is less [TS]
01:22:31 ◼ ► fun you're paying money to have less fun. I mean like it would not surprise me if this really isn't doing that well. [TS]
01:22:38 ◼ ► Like others that like so I just think the whole if I couldn't find the top one hundred fifty top grossing so I don't [TS]
01:22:45 ◼ ► Somebody said this adds another incident where you said you can you can click on a little thing that says look at this [TS]
01:22:53 ◼ ► but it's not even showing the ad during a game play with the way the burden whether they'd put up a dialog box puts a [TS]
01:22:59 ◼ ► dollar mark here are your options if you have more than one hundred coins you can redeem a hundred of them right now on [TS]
01:23:03 ◼ ► the gumball machine if you might have a free gift on the time base mechanic which will give you one of those things you [TS]
01:23:08 ◼ ► can buy because even playing for a long time or press a thing will show you how to give you twenty points but like [TS]
01:23:14 ◼ ► but as a player like when we even need to do that like one of that you never need to do [TS]
01:23:18 ◼ ► and what one of the things one of the things that I got from the gumball machine was five hundred points which is [TS]
01:23:27 ◼ ► So I just opened up to to see like you know how this is and like so so far playing this game [TS]
01:23:34 ◼ ► and I'm seeing no ad I'm seeing no solicitation for buying these coins are doing it go die [TS]
01:23:40 ◼ ► and you'll see a little things as free gift and if you have over a hundred Corell Yeah you know I sort of did before [TS]
01:23:46 ◼ ► and that's why so like the little icon that shows the filmstrip I don't know if kids know what film looks like the [TS]
01:23:54 ◼ ► when you do an icon like the old telephone handset icon much I guess kids are kind of socialized to know means phone [TS]
01:24:00 ◼ ► but whatever it is cellular filmstrips with the little holes in the edges I don't know if people know that anyway. [TS]
01:24:06 ◼ ► There's a little symbol looks like that and it shows clients Oh here's this Kumble thing L. Case I'm seeing this now. [TS]
01:24:12 ◼ ► I saw this once before I had no idea I could even pay anything and here I thought it was literally a free gift [TS]
01:24:19 ◼ ► and I just get this you know this weird cow or something you have and you can't pay there you can go. [TS]
01:24:25 ◼ ► when you start the game there's a little thing where you can change your character in the lower left [TS]
01:24:28 ◼ ► and if you scroll through all the characters have ninety nine cents underneath this is the worst monetise popular game [TS]
01:24:34 ◼ ► Well that's one thing I don't know if it is like we're on the outside we don't know how much my Again this person could [TS]
01:24:40 ◼ ► but it's on so I feel that has developed because whatever they're making they could be making a lot more. [TS]
01:24:45 ◼ ► Yeah I would have paid five ninety nine for this game is an amazingly well done game I mean granted this is Frogger you [TS]
01:24:50 ◼ ► know he didn't make a frog or whatever but execution wise and like fit for you know for input method [TS]
01:24:59 ◼ ► and everything it's it's beautiful it's amazing I mean even if they were just and I had on the top [TS]
01:25:04 ◼ ► or bottom like just like a bird and that would annoy me and it would make the game less fun. [TS]
01:25:11 ◼ ► Right like that that itself I guarantee you whatever monetization they're doing with this app with this weird pointing [TS]
01:25:18 ◼ ► I guarantee you what I just said with an eye and a dollar to hide it would have done at least ten times better. [TS]
01:25:23 ◼ ► But you wouldn't have done that because you would have felt bad about it happen like that. [TS]
01:25:26 ◼ ► This not if you buy all these characters that are ninety nine cents a like twenty of them I think you could spend like [TS]
01:25:31 ◼ ► twenty or thirty bucks on this game. But even but as you said look there's really no reason to. [TS]
01:25:35 ◼ ► Well I mean again maybe it was just in my experience and in my kids experience it seems like there's not. [TS]
01:25:44 ◼ ► and all that stuff like maybe go on horse armor there's another gaming reference where you like maybe people do want to [TS]
01:25:51 ◼ ► buy them and don't want to unlock them and just can't live unless they have a Dark Lord as their character. [TS]
01:25:56 ◼ ► Characters are cool and they do change the game they really need you know I can't help. [TS]
01:26:00 ◼ ► But feel like we spent the beginning of this episode talking about how the spammy push notifications are really [TS]
01:26:11 ◼ ► and now we're ending the episode by saying oh you should put ads on this thing you would made a fortune. [TS]
01:26:22 ◼ ► Everyone go down this game for free play it for five or ten minutes and if you think it's worth something. [TS]
01:26:27 ◼ ► Pay ninety nine cents for the favorite character dress and by the way I said they changed the [TS]
01:26:31 ◼ ► and they changed the graphics and again they don't change the gameplay only to sometimes make it harder [TS]
01:26:35 ◼ ► but for example if you buy the penguin spoiler makes everything else snowy it's adorable. [TS]
01:26:39 ◼ ► Just what even like what you said what you said like like the whole idea like oh I got this game for free I'm enjoying [TS]
01:26:50 ◼ ► Days after buying it and it was free maybe you thought you had given us the money but you didn't. Well exactly. [TS]
01:26:56 ◼ ► So many people I bet like they don't like you know a lot of people only buy free stuff or download free stuff [TS]
01:27:02 ◼ ► But there's a lot of people like me who are like you'll pay a dollar for a game without really thinking about it. [TS]
01:27:16 ◼ ► and not even think about giving the Mormon in the future. All right. I think we're done. [TS]
01:27:21 ◼ ► Anyway thanks a lot to our four sponsors this week studio neat Harry's Squarespace and Linda dot com [TS]
01:27:27 ◼ ► and we will see you next week. Now to be as it was accidental accidental found because it was that was accidental. [TS]
01:28:37 ◼ ► I just played it on the air I can't like this is we had a punk that's where pod casting fall I play in cross he wrote [TS]
01:28:46 ◼ ► My favorite feature of the game which I feel better most point of and you see it it's just really really well done. [TS]
01:28:52 ◼ ► Is that your game center friends that when they play of course it records a score and you can see a leader board [TS]
01:28:57 ◼ ► when you're playing the game you'll see the name of the person written across the farthest distance that they've made [TS]
01:29:03 ◼ ► it their highest score you know I was I was the Marco Arment on like you know thirty [TS]
01:29:07 ◼ ► or whatever your pathetic score is the ground so you literally hop over their name when you're beating their score. [TS]
01:29:15 ◼ ► and I was trying to I kept trying to contact Jason I think he left I sent him private messages I sent to my AMS What I [TS]
01:29:20 ◼ ► was trying to do is send a friend request from my son's game centre account to his because Jason has the highest score [TS]
01:29:30 ◼ ► and I want to give my son motivation to beat somebody score so I said if they could just get him to be friends Jason [TS]
01:29:38 ◼ ► All right so I have an I haven't got an app for years now figures lets you browse other apps rankings. [TS]
01:29:47 ◼ ► It is if you look at just free like on the free chart it is in the it's in the top five most of the times across the [TS]
01:30:06 ◼ ► So we're talking like this is like this is the number twelve most downloaded free app in the App Store for for the last [TS]
01:30:12 ◼ ► you know while. So that's a very very high rank probably tens of thousands of installs per day. [TS]
01:30:18 ◼ ► Now if you look at the top grossing in i Phone top grossing is around the two hundredth place. [TS]
01:30:30 ◼ ► Number two hundred top grossing and i Phone and i Pad It's like number three hundred. [TS]
01:30:35 ◼ ► So it's even worse an i Pad That is I mean I'm sure I'm sure the developers are making decent money on that [TS]
01:30:42 ◼ ► but the money they're making is not proportional to the downloads they're getting at all. [TS]
01:30:47 ◼ ► Like it's like that's a very bad ratio for how popular this game is how popular it has been for the last couple of for [TS]
01:30:54 ◼ ► or where they have a lot of been out that is not generating a ton of money for for that level downloads [TS]
01:31:00 ◼ ► and I think it shows like just getting a bunch of people if you have some kind of premium monetization scheme like this [TS]
01:31:13 ◼ ► You have to set that with with some thought as well they just had to be smart business you know ranking in the four [TS]
01:31:19 ◼ ► hundred in the abstract I'm guessing atop my head I'm guessing that's five thousand dollars a day [TS]
01:31:27 ◼ ► That's that's really like that help of getting really ripped off and it's basically. [TS]
01:31:33 ◼ ► But by their own creation here by by not giving enough of a reason for people to pay and also not putting an ad in it [TS]
01:31:42 ◼ ► and I guess I feel bad for whoever made this because it's it's clearly like the world is getting a lot more value out [TS]
01:31:52 ◼ ► So real time follow up I am playing this game and it's weird but I'm looking at my leaderboard and. [TS]
01:32:00 ◼ ► It's going from bottom to top me with twenty eight. My friend Eric we lander with thirty four Marco is forty three. [TS]
01:32:28 ◼ ► and like I have my own sort of energy meter in the game where I'm just serious cases now if I play if I play it more [TS]
01:32:33 ◼ ► than two times my I have diminishing returns in the controller know the computers cheating Marco it was a computer [TS]
01:32:42 ◼ ► and if this is one of those games where the ultimate interface I feel I could be if I could hook up a D. [TS]
01:32:48 ◼ ► or a joystick to this early the game would be a minimum time of course to learn part of the game is like yeah you know [TS]
01:32:55 ◼ ► part of the game is the control scheme is not quite that they used to have to go forward [TS]
01:33:05 ◼ ► and get the wrong action like basically it'll hop for when I really meant to be a swipe back to left [TS]
01:33:10 ◼ ► or the right because the controls are not that precise but that's all part of the game you know anyway. [TS]
01:33:23 ◼ ► and I find myself crossing into the hundreds and on there are some crossing two hundred good service and die [TS]
01:33:26 ◼ ► but there are only two or three games and then I you know go back to the desert golfing or something. [TS]
01:33:33 ◼ ► Yeah I've actually been playing a lot of desert golfing it's amazing desert golfing cross the road is a better game [TS]
01:33:45 ◼ ► but that's not I don't think it's I'm currently on a whole two hundred seventeen farther than that [TS]
01:33:56 ◼ ► I'm at the seven hundred forty three structure being a hole to seventy in my school. [TS]
01:34:12 ◼ ► That's it no saves no loading screen no menus no one do you can't even reset it can you know start you can and start [TS]
01:34:19 ◼ ► Like that's it the game is the game the best thing would be like if they actually Stuart Stuart it's what your score [TS]
01:34:29 ◼ ► and everything is just brutally like this is the game you are now playing the game of didn't like that stroke you would [TS]
01:34:36 ◼ ► There's no mulligan there's no undo there's no resetting anything going from left to right [TS]
01:34:43 ◼ ► and terrible physics engine that is just filled to the brim with B.S. Because I cannot leave. [TS]
01:34:48 ◼ ► However they programmed me. YOU PLAYED IT market like oh you're not going to roll down that hill. [TS]
01:34:55 ◼ ► It just like stops in the middle of one hill but any other hill or down the entire thing slow it right [TS]
01:35:00 ◼ ► and even just the physics of bounce thing like the angle of incidence does not equal the anvil angle of reflection in [TS]
01:35:07 ◼ ► any universe forget about sense emulation this is not even if you had a rigid body physics is B.S. [TS]
01:35:13 ◼ ► In this game and yet I play it because you just launch it and what you do when you get in the ball in the hole [TS]
01:35:22 ◼ ► And yeah I did sixteen strokes not Hulk it was pissing me off for the next one I got on my me just keep going. [TS]
01:35:28 ◼ ► In fact speaking about Pike on his on his video game I believe is called up up down down there right now anyway. [TS]
01:35:41 ◼ ► and said like you know like the first time you get a hole in one you expect like some kind of like congratulations [TS]
01:35:46 ◼ ► and just nothing happens like you get it goes to the next hole. That's no different than any other score. [TS]
01:35:52 ◼ ► A lesson about life this is really not the next game we need to get General Honore to play although I think about [TS]
01:36:00 ◼ ► There's a golf thing does or golfing can teach you something profound about life I think. [TS]
01:36:10 ◼ ► or forty three so I can put the game down to hop over the named engine was not fun I didn't like his name it looked [TS]
01:36:20 ◼ ► or had heard of it before I mentioned it here I had heard of it you big jerk but no I never played it. [TS]
01:36:24 ◼ ► However I did see I think I've even seen the segment on Seinfeld. I didn't even watch Seinfeld. [TS]
01:36:30 ◼ ► That's where you know right from here. Anyway this is better than for a lot of them hard now. [TS]
01:36:37 ◼ ► Now I can construct a plain stupid game I hate you too. Just installed us forgot it will calm you back down. [TS]
01:36:48 ◼ ► Yes sorry does or golfing like according to the Gulf Do people are going to search for the name to find it. [TS]
01:36:58 ◼ ► or two you are now playing the game I remember it was I have gotten so much enjoyment of the game because I [TS]
01:37:02 ◼ ► and I know how like how abusive it is and yet I keep playing like it is satisfying [TS]
01:37:08 ◼ ► and I think I was saying it like like there are so many games it just it just like a constant like showering you with [TS]
01:37:18 ◼ ► Anything you do anything you're amazing here's some fireworks you get a bonus coin for your cow it's like this is [TS]
01:37:31 ◼ ► That's it and again and the game is cruel and arbitrary an anchor incorrectly programmed [TS]
01:37:36 ◼ ► but you love it just like life the only thing that makes you mad about this game is that I didn't make it to this is [TS]
01:37:47 ◼ ► Yeah and there's not a lot of games that I'm technically qualified to make and I totally could have done this [TS]
01:37:54 ◼ ► The trick in the tricky part is the procedural generation with a twist of the levels I think that is the. [TS]
01:38:00 ◼ ► Because the genius of this game is it just goes on and on and on like how can I go on [TS]
01:38:04 ◼ ► and on to the human layout all these levels know it's procedurally generated but not just is it. [TS]
01:38:11 ◼ ► but not random so there is human influence over it somehow that like particular holes have certain attention paid to [TS]
01:38:18 ◼ ► them I don't know the details he didn't really have but it's for the most part procedurally generated [TS]
01:38:22 ◼ ► but with a human touch to you know when you're stuck on a hole that is particularly difficult. [TS]
01:38:27 ◼ ► I always see the you know the touch of the human you know scoring with you there. Right. [TS]
01:38:40 ◼ ► but there's so many levels you know that you can get up to the cactus yet I don't know where that is because a cactus. [TS]
01:38:45 ◼ ► Yeah I well I mean I actually enjoy this game it's crazy like I was I took so many friggin screenshot that I can't say [TS]
01:38:59 ◼ ► but I don't want to I don't want to ruin what it says it's not frog fractions which you've both never heard of [TS]
01:39:08 ◼ ► and there golfing is the opposite of progress action applying that the funny thing is in the lake nothing the little [TS]
01:39:15 ◼ ► thing will full of game development I've done one of the things I've done is a procedural terrain generator for a [TS]
01:39:21 ◼ ► scorched earth style game which is this stuff I actually already have an algorithm to do that [TS]
01:39:26 ◼ ► and I don't have the things that like you know make sure that the hole is reachable in some reasonable way. [TS]
01:39:31 ◼ ► Yes that's one thing like procedure generally dangerous because you can get on a little ball specially with this B.S. [TS]
01:39:40 ◼ ► and the other thing is like so you precision are generated you hope you have rules so you don't make them in a hole [TS]
01:39:44 ◼ ► but you have to play through them all to make sure and that's the worst punishment of all. [TS]
01:39:53 ◼ ► Yes yes it's determined if they were the seed and ever in the levels that with him although he said he might change. [TS]
01:40:00 ◼ ► A future and might change some of the later levels I won't tell you what later means but you'll be depressed. [TS]
01:40:09 ◼ ► and I was really trying to think of like if I never uninstalled is game out I'll run this until it doesn't run on my [TS]
01:40:17 ◼ ► Just keep going like the numbers will keep going up the ball keep going in the hole I will keep getting angry at the [TS]
01:40:21 ◼ ► physics for was a huge on the tweeted about how you has to go sixty four bit now because again I'm stuffed. [TS]