00:00:00 ◼ ► it's interesting at all I'm bored what we're talking about tonight is anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/0">TS</a>]
00:00:07 ◼ ► to talk about the summary thing I know I thought your post about david was really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/7">TS</a>]
00:00:13 ◼ ► interesting this is obviously mutual admiration society but I thought it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/13">TS</a>]
00:00:19 ◼ ► very it was very person in in impressive that he was smart enough not to reveal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/19">TS</a>]
00:00:25 ◼ ► his age and then made in hoops and and like you said suddenly every article [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/25">TS</a>]
00:00:30 ◼ ► about amber became about his age rather than the fact that number was really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/30">TS</a>]
00:00:33 ◼ ► well done right and that's too bad but I've never used some least I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/33">TS</a>]
00:00:38 ◼ ► if it's any good apparently you say it's not good I i was i mean I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/38">TS</a>]
00:00:43 ◼ ► what they did in the last six to nine months they they had they have their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/43">TS</a>]
00:00:50 ◼ ► whole app that was the whole news browsing thing that all came about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/50">TS</a>]
00:00:53 ◼ ► fairly recently before all that is when I tried it so i didnt trying to do stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/53">TS</a>]
00:00:57 ◼ ► so I can't really speak to what it was but the originally the whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/57">TS</a>]
00:01:02 ◼ ► summarization engine I was really not impressed by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/62">TS</a>]
00:01:07 ◼ ► I think it was a reasonable idea to try to do something like that but it wasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/67">TS</a>]
00:01:15 ◼ ► that compelling like something like that we're okay so the idea of this thing is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/75">TS</a>]
00:01:19 ◼ ► to take any web article news article whatever the case and summarize it into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/79">TS</a>]
00:01:25 ◼ ► like three little $0.01 bullet points and so the idea that you don't have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/85">TS</a>]
00:01:30 ◼ ► read everything well first of all somebody who likes reading things that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/90">TS</a>]
00:01:33 ◼ ► kind of missing the point but OK to some uses for that I can see that the problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/93">TS</a>]
00:01:39 ◼ ► is the summaries were so bad I'm not you know occasionally would get maybe one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/99">TS</a>]
00:01:45 ◼ ► and a half of the three bullet points would make sense but that wasn't the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/105">TS</a>]
00:01:49 ◼ ► best Irish I do so it was a way to poorly summarized news stories sometimes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/109">TS</a>]
00:01:57 ◼ ► and so to me i just don't have anywhere that fits into my life and probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/117">TS</a>]
00:02:03 ◼ ► don't remember this because you didn't start using that until recently but back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/123">TS</a>]
00:02:06 ◼ ► in the classic Mac OS two is Apple made a big stink at one point in it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/126">TS</a>]
00:02:10 ◼ ► sad decline in the nineties about system wide text summarization service where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/130">TS</a>]
00:02:16 ◼ ► you could select text and asked to summarize it and it would summarize it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/136">TS</a>]
00:02:19 ◼ ► down to a couple sentences the sound familiar yet and this was classic macros [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/139">TS</a>]
00:02:24 ◼ ► and that feature might still be in there should go back and I caught him in and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/144">TS</a>]
00:02:28 ◼ ► see if there's a summarized tax thing with that but it predates Pakistan my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/148">TS</a>]
00:02:33 ◼ ► recollection and yet not that feature did not set the world on fire and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/153">TS</a>]
00:02:39 ◼ ► know I don't know what the state of the art is with with natural language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/159">TS</a>]
00:02:42 ◼ ► processing doing summarization I'm sure this probably good stuff out there but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/162">TS</a>]
00:02:48 ◼ ► the thing with lots of natural language processing or or AI type algorithms is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/168">TS</a>]
00:02:54 ◼ ► that a lot of times the best they can ever do is like an 80 percent job and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/174">TS</a>]
00:02:59 ◼ ► there's a lot of cases in the rubber that's useful but usually when you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/179">TS</a>]
00:03:04 ◼ ► like directly between the data and the human and you're trying to do like just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/184">TS</a>]
00:03:08 ◼ ► as one smart thing that involves language and and concepts and a very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/188">TS</a>]
00:03:14 ◼ ► subjective difficult complicated things it's it's not usually good idea to to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/194">TS</a>]
00:03:21 ◼ ► expose the ASAP addressed to people whose usual it's like let's say it's 95% [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/201">TS</a>]
00:03:26 ◼ ► good 5% is still pretty often you're looking to hit that a lot you know so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/206">TS</a>]
00:03:31 ◼ ► like John you talked a lot about speech recognition software you use it a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/211">TS</a>]
00:03:36 ◼ ► and dictation software you know what what do you think is like the the most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/216">TS</a>]
00:03:42 ◼ ► the highest acceptable error rate that you would still use it for summarization [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/222">TS</a>]
00:03:48 ◼ ► of her speech speech recognition in the area is pretty high and I'm I think I'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/228">TS</a>]
00:03:56 ◼ ► be willing to put up with a much higher rate than I currently get in fact I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/236">TS</a>]
00:03:59 ◼ ► think I'd be willing to trade correctness for responsiveness because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/239">TS</a>]
00:04:05 ◼ ► when you're trying to speak you don't want to be waiting like that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/245">TS</a>]
00:04:09 ◼ ► building technician dictation and I was 10 is the worst case because you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/249">TS</a>]
00:04:14 ◼ ► activate a little thing and then he's a little blinking cursor funny you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/254">TS</a>]
00:04:19 ◼ ► you have to activate the thing again to say okay take what I just said and do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/259">TS</a>]
00:04:24 ◼ ► something with it and then you started the blanket thing and then a whole bunch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/264">TS</a>]
00:04:27 ◼ ► of tax comes on screen and that's when you find out whether it is been totally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/267">TS</a>]
00:04:30 ◼ ► off the rails whereas if it had exactly the same area but did it were to time in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/270">TS</a>]
00:04:35 ◼ ► a kind of Syrian the Google you know I was talk speech searching thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/275">TS</a>]
00:04:41 ◼ ► responsiveness i think is more important than than correctness this obviously was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/281">TS</a>]
00:04:45 ◼ ► you know seventy percent error you'd be annoyed but I think being responsive is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/285">TS</a>]
00:04:50 ◼ ► more important than being psychic correct because the dragon is really has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/290">TS</a>]
00:04:54 ◼ ► really really good actually really high accuracy but still frustrate me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/294">TS</a>]
00:04:57 ◼ ► sometimes when I'm talking faster than the taxes appearing and I had to stop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/297">TS</a>]
00:05:00 ◼ ► and maybe I don't have to stop but I do stop to wait to see the last you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/300">TS</a>]
00:05:04 ◼ ► fifteen words come splashing out on the screen usually all at once to say that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/304">TS</a>]
00:05:08 ◼ ► it's on the same page because you don't do that if you just like close your eyes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/308">TS</a>]
00:05:11 ◼ ► and talk it will do an amazingly good job but every once in a while to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/311">TS</a>]
00:05:14 ◼ ► something off and I'll go back and I'll be but what I do know what are called [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/314">TS</a>]
00:05:17 ◼ ► wrote by speaking and I have no idea what the hell I was saying and how do I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/317">TS</a>]
00:05:21 ◼ ► look at it and try to think a comment and say now like which word that sounds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/321">TS</a>]
00:05:25 ◼ ► like the words on the page because when you make your own typos it's like I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/325">TS</a>]
00:05:29 ◼ ► typing the right word and I scribbled out what it was you said but when you do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/329">TS</a>]
00:05:33 ◼ ► like speech shows where it transcribes the wrong thing it's it could be so far [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/333">TS</a>]
00:05:38 ◼ ► off semantically and I've literally had times where I sit I have no idea what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/338">TS</a>]
00:05:42 ◼ ► the heck I was trying to say here business sense actually makes no sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/342">TS</a>]
00:05:44 ◼ ► whatsoever know all the words are spelled correctly in english words they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/344">TS</a>]
00:05:47 ◼ ► don't make any sense another remember what I was saying and I gotta like say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/347">TS</a>]
00:05:50 ◼ ► the word as written out loud and closed my eyes and think about it sounds like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/350">TS</a>]
00:05:54 ◼ ► what I mean I don't think anyone many people would choose to use speech [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/354">TS</a>]
00:05:59 ◼ ► recognition for this way like I wouldn't be using it if I didn't have our side [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/359">TS</a>]
00:06:03 ◼ ► things with typing right that I think that's why you'll know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/363">TS</a>]
00:06:06 ◼ ► speech recognition has really arrived when people who can already type very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/366">TS</a>]
00:06:12 ◼ ► shoes to use speech recognition instead because it's like if he is fast or you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/372">TS</a>]
00:06:19 ◼ ► know it's so accurate that is why would you bother putting your fingers around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/379">TS</a>]
00:06:23 ◼ ► know that right now it's not a a group activity what I mean by that is if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/383">TS</a>]
00:06:30 ◼ ► you're working in an office cubicles like john i presume you do and how I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/390">TS</a>]
00:06:34 ◼ ► certainly do if all of us are talking to our computers that's going to be a bit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/394">TS</a>]
00:06:40 ◼ ► allowed to say the least and furthermore you know doing the sorts of things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/400">TS</a>]
00:06:45 ◼ ► all three of us do which is right code which is a far cry from regular pros I I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/405">TS</a>]
00:06:52 ◼ ► never imagined nor tried to do speech recognition for writing code but i John [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/412">TS</a>]
00:06:57 ◼ ► I can't imagine you're writing pearl and regular expressions which is basically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/417">TS</a>]
00:07:00 ◼ ► the same thing using speech recognition is not the same thing and no and a good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/420">TS</a>]
00:07:11 ◼ ► role I i do my best if you like you know there's this place is for the stuff like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/431">TS</a>]
00:07:18 ◼ ► a lot of people have said that you know first of all there are there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/438">TS</a>]
00:07:23 ◼ ► opportunities for anything that could be considered an assistive technology for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/443">TS</a>]
00:07:28 ◼ ► people like dictation is great for people who can't type and RSI is you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/448">TS</a>]
00:07:33 ◼ ► know a usually mild but still a handicap and so if you if you can't or would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/453">TS</a>]
00:07:40 ◼ ► rather not use your hands to type then it's great to have alternatives but you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/460">TS</a>]
00:07:48 ◼ ► know the place for the stuff is in other contexts you know people who don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/468">TS</a>]
00:07:52 ◼ ► permanently have a specific disability but who might temporarily have one for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/472">TS</a>]
00:07:56 ◼ ► example when you're driving you really shouldn't be typing so when driving also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/476">TS</a>]
00:08:02 ◼ ► theoretically hopefully partially blind to your computing device so that's why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/482">TS</a>]
00:08:08 ◼ ► things like voice commands and audio cues can be so useful in a mobile app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/488">TS</a>]
00:08:14 ◼ ► that they are expected to use while you're in the cards like serious great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/494">TS</a>]
00:08:17 ◼ ► for that but you know syria is not good enough for me to dictate everything that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/497">TS</a>]
00:08:22 ◼ ► way you know as john said like it when you have alternatives will take them but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/502">TS</a>]
00:08:26 ◼ ► it's still good to have this thing when you don't have alternative motives or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/506">TS</a>]
00:08:31 ◼ ► worse I'm trying to look up to a text summarization service in class [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/511">TS</a>]
00:08:35 ◼ ► and i cant find it all I can find to the references to it existing a Mac OS 10 so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/515">TS</a>]
00:08:40 ◼ ► maybe I miss remembering the time I could have sworn this was like from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/520">TS</a>]
00:08:43 ◼ ► michael has paid or whatever but anyway if you want to just fired txt Edit now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/523">TS</a>]
00:08:46 ◼ ► in Pakistan's put it past the budget ax in there from an article [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/526">TS</a>]
00:08:50 ◼ ► select the tax code of the Services menu summarized will be in there if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/530">TS</a>]
00:08:53 ◼ ► didn't deactivate it in your profane and you get a little slider that lets you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/533">TS</a>]
00:08:56 ◼ ► you know cracking down to you know one sentence if you want so I gotta [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/536">TS</a>]
00:09:02 ◼ ► understand how I don't know anything about this only thing except except what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/542">TS</a>]
00:09:06 ◼ ► i've read his blog and like two other news stories and summarization is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/546">TS</a>]
00:09:12 ◼ ► the whole thing was like it would you know it was going to let you consume [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/552">TS</a>]
00:09:16 ◼ ► news without you having to look for all the news you try to give you a condensed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/556">TS</a>]
00:09:20 ◼ ► version but not you know I am I getting this right but not any human do it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/560">TS</a>]
00:09:23 ◼ ► having the computer do it and summarization would be a part of that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/563">TS</a>]
00:09:27 ◼ ► but if it's the summarization part of their excited about like you know this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/567">TS</a>]
00:09:32 ◼ ► feature is always existed for a long time but there is a classic Mac OS not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/572">TS</a>]
00:09:35 ◼ ► knowing cares that it's there is it patent encumbered is it like I I still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/575">TS</a>]
00:09:40 ◼ ► don't understand why they pay $39 I don't understand it all that will answer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/580">TS</a>]
00:09:46 ◼ ► that and that's what a lot of the debate has been about is you know first of all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/586">TS</a>]
00:09:50 ◼ ► it's cool to say Yahoo is being stupid because I who's had some pretty bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/590">TS</a>]
00:09:54 ◼ ► decades so everyone's like a look at how stupid yahoos being again but I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/594">TS</a>]
00:09:59 ◼ ► think that's I don't think it's them being stupid you know usually if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/599">TS</a>]
00:10:02 ◼ ► think a company's being stupid usually you are looking at the whole picture or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/602">TS</a>]
00:10:07 ◼ ► they're there something that you're missing or you know there's some better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/607">TS</a>]
00:10:09 ◼ ► reason for what they're doing that's better explain then they're idiots so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/609">TS</a>]
00:10:15 ◼ ► think you can look at the company is grim now called blackberry anyway that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/615">TS</a>]
00:10:22 ◼ ► they actually are idiots but for the most part everybody else you know when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/622">TS</a>]
00:10:25 ◼ ► when the explanation is how they're being stupid is usually more to it so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/625">TS</a>]
00:10:29 ◼ ► think in this case a lot of people have suggested so it so here's the deal day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/629">TS</a>]
00:10:33 ◼ ► they bought some Lee the the product and part of the staff for thirty million [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/633">TS</a>]
00:10:39 ◼ ► dollars most of actress cash I think they said 10 percent woodstock but all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/639">TS</a>]
00:10:45 ◼ ► door from inside sources unnamed the numbers were not officially made public [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/645">TS</a>]
00:10:48 ◼ ► but everyone saying thirty million dollars mostly in cash and so the end [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/648">TS</a>]
00:10:54 ◼ ► higher the product is immediately shut down and Yahoo paid for this I started [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/654">TS</a>]
00:11:01 ◼ ► at a relatively modest sum for basically for three people were the three most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/661">TS</a>]
00:11:08 ◼ ► important people by their definition to work for Yahoo for a minimum of 18 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/668">TS</a>]
00:11:13 ◼ ► months so basically they've paid like 10 million ahead for these key people and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/673">TS</a>]
00:11:19 ◼ ► that's that sounds even more crazy now that you're telling me more about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/679">TS</a>]
00:11:22 ◼ ► I'm thinking it's crazy that I thought so they're shutting down the stupid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/682">TS</a>]
00:11:26 ◼ ► product that summarizes stuff so it's it's gone it's they pulled from the App [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/686">TS</a>]
00:11:29 ◼ ► Store and i know i dont standard like there's no way those three people over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/689">TS</a>]
00:11:35 ◼ ► thirty million dollars this know that some people are saying that that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/695">TS</a>]
00:11:42 ◼ ► technology was actually license from ESRI the the parent company of Syria [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/702">TS</a>]
00:11:46 ◼ ► before up about it that that the the speech recognition or the natural [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/706">TS</a>]
00:11:51 ◼ ► language processing technology was actually ESRI's and it was licensed from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/711">TS</a>]
00:11:54 ◼ ► them that simply didn't develop that but then the Somali people are denying that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/714">TS</a>]
00:11:58 ◼ ► so that's it's unclear what what is the truth there but at least what Yahoo but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/718">TS</a>]
00:12:03 ◼ ► at least we know that he bought was they paid thirty million dollars for these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/723">TS</a>]
00:12:07 ◼ ► three people one of whom is the 17 year old kid Nick got it should not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/727">TS</a>]
00:12:12 ◼ ► references last name do you start of the alloy CEO and EtOAc oh I'm sorry I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/732">TS</a>]
00:12:21 ◼ ► probably sharing that Nick D hehe but not make done this is tough anyway [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/741">TS</a>]
00:12:30 ◼ ► Nick D lolz oh sorry he started this company was 15 now e17 so now he's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/750">TS</a>]
00:12:37 ◼ ► seventeen year old tech whiz kid Millionaire which of course the press [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/757">TS</a>]
00:12:40 ◼ ► loves to bang on that angle so much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/760">TS</a>]
00:12:43 ◼ ► and and I i kinda rip them apart yesterday for that as as you're saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/763">TS</a>]
00:12:47 ◼ ► the top of the show about how that was originally a problem a tumbler with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/767">TS</a>]
00:12:51 ◼ ► david was so young but you know so all the stories are about how young this kid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/771">TS</a>]
00:12:58 ◼ ► is or about the tech press freaking out that why the heck today by this and why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/778">TS</a>]
00:13:03 ◼ ► they pay so much but to bring us back a little bit we had a couple weeks ago we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/783">TS</a>]
00:13:09 ◼ ► had a question from Bobby Becker he suggested an interesting topic he said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/789">TS</a>]
00:13:13 ◼ ► what if Apple bought Yahoo and the idea there was like Apple needs to buy or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/793">TS</a>]
00:13:21 ◼ ► Apple needs good server side and services talent and Yahoo might have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/801">TS</a>]
00:13:26 ◼ ► that an apartment this topic for a little bit Yahoo is is still very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/806">TS</a>]
00:13:31 ◼ ► popular among especially among non geek demographics like normal people as we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/811">TS</a>]
00:13:37 ◼ ► like to say in the world which is probably condescending or somehow weird [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/817">TS</a>]
00:13:41 ◼ ► but sorry about that I don't know what the right term is none do you think is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/821">TS</a>]
00:13:46 ◼ ► fair but I think Yahoo is for the most part of resting on their previously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/826">TS</a>]
00:13:52 ◼ ► previously achieved laurels and I don't think they've really done a lot in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/832">TS</a>]
00:13:59 ◼ ► last decade maybe two to really get new users and to really grow the company and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/839">TS</a>]
00:14:03 ◼ ► that's why everyone has had a bit of trouble and that's why isn't it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/843">TS</a>]
00:14:07 ◼ ► interesting when they brought a Marissa Meyer CEO from Google that that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/847">TS</a>]
00:14:10 ◼ ► interesting but either way this company this company that needs to make a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/850">TS</a>]
00:14:14 ◼ ► comeback of some sort they've also in the last decade gone through a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/854">TS</a>]
00:14:19 ◼ ► layoffs a lot of very talented people have left or gotten fired or laid off so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/859">TS</a>]
00:14:26 ◼ ► it they i don't i don't have any inside sources Yahoo but I have to imagine they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/866">TS</a>]
00:14:32 ◼ ► probably have a talent shortage and because if you're really good you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/872">TS</a>]
00:14:38 ◼ ► probably have you probably were not happy working Yahoo in the last decade [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/878">TS</a>]
00:14:41 ◼ ► you probably left or didn't go there in the first place because they just lost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/881">TS</a>]
00:14:45 ◼ ► so many good people over the last year or so and they have some good properties [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/885">TS</a>]
00:14:50 ◼ ► like Flickr that we've just seen just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/890">TS</a>]
00:14:53 ◼ ► languish and and stagnate as all the good people of left north or so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/893">TS</a>]
00:15:00 ◼ ► Yahoo talent wise I have to imagine is not in good shape so the other angle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/900">TS</a>]
00:15:06 ◼ ► people are discussing with the summly deal is first of all nick de le CEO [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/906">TS</a>]
00:15:11 ◼ ► again I'm sorry he he might be a really good product sensibility person and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/911">TS</a>]
00:15:19 ◼ ► that's that's what you know that's the kind of person that that in one way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/919">TS</a>]
00:15:23 ◼ ► steve Jobs was it's the kind of person certainly the David Karp visit tumblr [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/923">TS</a>]
00:15:26 ◼ ► having believe me he is he's definitely kind of person and and that that's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/926">TS</a>]
00:15:32 ◼ ► very valuable kind of person to just short short handed called products [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/932">TS</a>]
00:15:38 ◼ ► people product people can make or break a company because they make the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/938">TS</a>]
00:15:43 ◼ ► decisions about what products should be and they have the sensibilities to know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/943">TS</a>]
00:15:47 ◼ ► what people will like and what will work so if Nick DLB CEO is a really good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/947">TS</a>]
00:15:53 ◼ ► product person then it would be valuable to bring them onto Yahoo because Yahoo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/953">TS</a>]
00:16:00 ◼ ► not thirty million dollars from sole reason that you pay $39 and his when I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/960">TS</a>]
00:16:06 ◼ ► come up with is not too great and based on information one there's a bidding war [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/966">TS</a>]
00:16:10 ◼ ► you're not the only one who wants to buy these people if you pay with the market [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/970">TS</a>]
00:16:13 ◼ ► demands of you want the more than someone else has gone up in we get them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/973">TS</a>]
00:16:16 ◼ ► in and two is intellectual property they have some stuff there would you know it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/976">TS</a>]
00:16:21 ◼ ► would cost you it's a huge selection of properties would cost you more to let [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/981">TS</a>]
00:16:26 ◼ ► someone else cooped up in the UFC licenses from them long-term those the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/986">TS</a>]
00:16:30 ◼ ► only two things I can think oh well what I'm thinking is there there are two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/990">TS</a>]
00:16:35 ◼ ► factors here that could have driven the price up artificially one is that Yahoo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/995">TS</a>]
00:16:42 ◼ ► is again not in good shape and you know that you could argue that having a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1002">TS</a>]
00:16:50 ◼ ► really good product person is very valuable to the company you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1010">TS</a>]
00:16:54 ◼ ► counter argues that while he's only obligated to stay there for 18 months so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1014">TS</a>]
00:17:01 ◼ ► 18 months one thing and the second thing is unproven show me your a product is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1021">TS</a>]
00:17:06 ◼ ► great product was the thing that we just can then known as really interested in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1026">TS</a>]
00:17:08 ◼ ► cause I think gramm even Steve Jobs and get thirty million dollars a day he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1028">TS</a>]
00:17:11 ◼ ► arrived at Apple in 1997 he had to kind of sort of a kick out the old CEO and be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1031">TS</a>]
00:17:16 ◼ ► kinda sorta prove myself before I like they're like okay well you know i mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1036">TS</a>]
00:17:20 ◼ ► he did come out the gate and CEO Steve Jobs wonderful you're gonna me to let [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1040">TS</a>]
00:17:24 ◼ ► you take over and give you tons and tons of money and showered with praise of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1044">TS</a>]
00:17:27 ◼ ► Steve Jobs has to prove himself this kid has to as well I guess is not you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1047">TS</a>]
00:17:30 ◼ ► pay thirty million dollars for a couple of employees no matter who they are even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1050">TS</a>]
00:17:34 ◼ ► if they literally on the best employees in the entire world you don't you just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1054">TS</a>]
00:17:37 ◼ ► how much money for well you would have to you could get those employees for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1057">TS</a>]
00:17:42 ◼ ► less money if there if they didn't know like they obviously know they have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1062">TS</a>]
00:17:45 ◼ ► something or think or know they have something that actually worth much more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1065">TS</a>]
00:17:49 ◼ ► would be individually as employees you know maybe Yahoo can't get them for less [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1069">TS</a>]
00:17:54 ◼ ► Yahoo again they yahoo has a problem because if you're really good in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1074">TS</a>]
00:17:58 ◼ ► industry do you want to work at Yahoo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1078">TS</a>]
00:18:01 ◼ ► probably not that's a million dollars ahead for 18 months would do it so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1081">TS</a>]
00:18:06 ◼ ► anyway so you know one thing I I think they can justify the high price by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1086">TS</a>]
00:18:11 ◼ ► we need people we need good people the other thing is Nick doee CEO again I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1091">TS</a>]
00:18:16 ◼ ► sorry is extremely relentless and really really good at self-promotion this guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1096">TS</a>]
00:18:24 ◼ ► there is there is a link to this gizmo article which is really kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1104">TS</a>]
00:18:28 ◼ ► tasteless honestly I felt bad evenly on Gizmodo really here because when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1108">TS</a>]
00:18:37 ◼ ► know this guy keep in mind this is a teenager or at least he was 18 I guess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1117">TS</a>]
00:18:41 ◼ ► or seventy whatever but this is a teenager like if I started a company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1121">TS</a>]
00:18:47 ◼ ► when I was a teenager and got a whole bunch of publicity and got all over the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1127">TS</a>]
00:18:52 ◼ ► people who were important in the industry I don't know that I would have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1132">TS</a>]
00:18:55 ◼ ► had that much better honestly cuz when I was a teenager I was an idiot and I i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1135">TS</a>]
00:18:59 ◼ ► guess im probably going to look back at this time in 10 years since I was an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1139">TS</a>]
00:19:04 ◼ ► idiot now but I at least feel like I'm way less of an idiot now than it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1144">TS</a>]
00:19:07 ◼ ► announced a teenager so I gotta gotta give this kid the benefit of the doubt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1147">TS</a>]
00:19:11 ◼ ► that ok you know he he was 15 when he started all this stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1151">TS</a>]
00:19:14 ◼ ► and when I was 15 I was an idiot so anyway but he he emailed the motor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1154">TS</a>]
00:19:23 ◼ ► reporter relentlessly like every day making up all this stuff like oh my boss [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1163">TS</a>]
00:19:29 ◼ ► is getting on my back and you don't put my app in the hall of fame or something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1169">TS</a>]
00:19:32 ◼ ► like that and everything was marked urgent so I didn't see that story when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1172">TS</a>]
00:19:35 ◼ ► it came out but Nick gave me a similar email Mirage about six months later [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1175">TS</a>]
00:19:42 ◼ ► trying to get me to integrate some lean to Instapaper and I mean the email she [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1182">TS</a>]
00:19:49 ◼ ► sent where I don't want to be mean to the kids but I mean it was ridiculous he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1189">TS</a>]
00:19:54 ◼ ► he he he would have multiple times a day from some of these days everything was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1194">TS</a>]
00:19:59 ◼ ► marked like super urgent even though it wasn't urgent which is just kind of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1199">TS</a>]
00:20:03 ◼ ► rude thing to do and he he he would impose artificial sense of urgency and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1203">TS</a>]
00:20:10 ◼ ► and everything had to be done quickly right now oh my god [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1210">TS</a>]
00:20:13 ◼ ► a lot like high pressure car salesmen you know like really like high-pressure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1213">TS</a>]
00:20:17 ◼ ► manipulation I would say end and really I was not left with a very good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1217">TS</a>]
00:20:23 ◼ ► impression of nixon these emotions because I felt like I was being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1223">TS</a>]
00:20:25 ◼ ► manipulated and and badgered and an annoyed so this included you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1225">TS</a>]
00:20:31 ◼ ► because you the exact same thing that somebody else I have to imagine this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1231">TS</a>]
00:20:33 ◼ ► just part of his personality where he can imagine the crap out of people until [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1233">TS</a>]
00:20:37 ◼ ► until they do what he wants and and so is his company his company has some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1237">TS</a>]
00:20:45 ◼ ► fairly prominent investors he had a video promotional video done with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1245">TS</a>]
00:20:50 ◼ ► Stephen Fry and among other other people did a few things with two and like he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1250">TS</a>]
00:20:56 ◼ ► has a lot of connections obviously and I don't know if he battled his way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1256">TS</a>]
00:20:59 ◼ ► interfere earn them or what this kid is really really good at getting people on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1259">TS</a>]
00:21:05 ◼ ► his side and badgering people into paying attention to him and doing what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1265">TS</a>]
00:21:09 ◼ ► he wants for his product so it's very possible that just Yahoo's desperation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1269">TS</a>]
00:21:15 ◼ ► and that could have been the only two factors that made this price go WAY [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1275">TS</a>]
00:21:19 ◼ ► higher than we think it probably should have that seems highly unlikely to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1279">TS</a>]
00:21:22 ◼ ► you didn't get these kids emails I saw I read the articles I guess he's annoying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1282">TS</a>]
00:21:28 ◼ ► but like this there's obviously something there that we don't know I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1288">TS</a>]
00:21:33 ◼ ► don't have information about the something bidding war its intellectual [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1293">TS</a>]
00:21:37 ◼ ► property it's not it's obviously not the product is they can that the kids out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1297">TS</a>]
00:21:41 ◼ ► that the product of a user base that transferring now be there has got to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1301">TS</a>]
00:21:45 ◼ ► gotta be some thing else had less than 2 million downloads and no revenue think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1305">TS</a>]
00:21:50 ◼ ► about like if you're running a company you can't you can't hire superstar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1310">TS</a>]
00:21:53 ◼ ► person for you know ten million dollars head all your existing people who are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1313">TS</a>]
00:21:58 ◼ ► lightweight and I superstar water night at ten million dollars for it doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1318">TS</a>]
00:22:02 ◼ ► you just can't do that doesn't gotta be something they're worth money to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1322">TS</a>]
00:22:06 ◼ ► company as human beings I I think it's clear I think you're right that we we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1326">TS</a>]
00:22:11 ◼ ► don't know the whole story here because obviously this still seems ridiculous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1331">TS</a>]
00:22:15 ◼ ► but I don't think there needs to be that much more to it for it to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1335">TS</a>]
00:22:20 ◼ ► understandable or or plausible like I don't think they had some kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1340">TS</a>]
00:22:25 ◼ ► awesome super duper natural language processing technology the Yahoo now owns [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1345">TS</a>]
00:22:30 ◼ ► I don't think that's it all because I saw the technology that wasn't a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1350">TS</a>]
00:22:32 ◼ ► compelling but I might just be patents and intellectual property is actually be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1352">TS</a>]
00:22:36 ◼ ► awesome it can be super duper dominance act is the best kind of patents the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1356">TS</a>]
00:22:40 ◼ ► Superdome path I don't think they were in business longer to get a patent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1360">TS</a>]
00:22:42 ◼ ► issued patent everyone's got a pet when I read somewhere today and I wish I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1362">TS</a>]
00:22:48 ◼ ► remember where I read this so this is probably fall since I barely remember [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1368">TS</a>]
00:22:52 ◼ ► where I read it but somebody said that it wasn't even there tack that they it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1372">TS</a>]
00:22:57 ◼ ► was like quasi Siri in that they license the text from someone else and just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1377">TS</a>]
00:23:02 ◼ ► putting you in front of it called it there's so I agree with you john that if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1382">TS</a>]
00:23:07 ◼ ► it's not the people than it should be I P but supposedly the IP isn't there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1387">TS</a>]
00:23:16 ◼ ► I don't know why I think I think you know johns right there is there has to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1396">TS</a>]
00:23:22 ◼ ► be something else here that has not been reported one if its the desperation of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1402">TS</a>]
00:23:27 ◼ ► Yahoo something that I've heard and read a lot about lately is how desperate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1407">TS</a>]
00:23:33 ◼ ► Apple is so how far as Apple from being in this position and I know that's kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1413">TS</a>]
00:23:36 ◼ ► of ridiculous and absurd thing to ask but it's also kind of a legitimate thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1416">TS</a>]
00:23:41 ◼ ► to ask I mean is Apple really where the super incredible mega nerds want to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1421">TS</a>]
00:23:48 ◼ ► these days that's a very good question i've i've heard a lot of things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1428">TS</a>]
00:23:52 ◼ ► rumors and some things from people in Apple that they have a lot of problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1432">TS</a>]
00:23:57 ◼ ► retaining good talent getting good talent mate Mitt may be getting to town [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1437">TS</a>]
00:24:01 ◼ ► they still ok with that retaining good talent that they're having a big problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1441">TS</a>]
00:24:05 ◼ ► there it makes sense that they have trouble retaining because I like the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1445">TS</a>]
00:24:10 ◼ ► Apple works is if you are a really smart you know great performer lots of talent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1450">TS</a>]
00:24:16 ◼ ► but can do lots of different things you're not going to go to Apple and get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1456">TS</a>]
00:24:22 ◼ ► to do what you want to do because the company does so few things like it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1462">TS</a>]
00:24:25 ◼ ► focused right so you can help contribute to what may be a big deal but you're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1465">TS</a>]
00:24:30 ◼ ► going to go you know I have this really great idea for this thing and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1470">TS</a>]
00:24:35 ◼ ► should I every month I do like the only very very few ideas actually get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1475">TS</a>]
00:24:38 ◼ ► implemented so eventually after work done one or two things that that Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1478">TS</a>]
00:24:43 ◼ ► decide to do and you were important contributing to them or whatever you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1483">TS</a>]
00:24:47 ◼ ► will inevitably say well you know but now I want to actually do the thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1487">TS</a>]
00:24:50 ◼ ► I was thinking of that i think is cool there's no way for you to do that inside [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1490">TS</a>]
00:24:54 ◼ ► of Apple so you inevitably have to leave and it's not like the faulted Apple for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1494">TS</a>]
00:24:59 ◼ ► doing this because they have to be focuses the company but the really smart [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1499">TS</a>]
00:25:04 ◼ ► multi talented people you can't keep them and find a place where they can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1504">TS</a>]
00:25:10 ◼ ► only contribute to the one or two or three things that are important for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1510">TS</a>]
00:25:13 ◼ ► blue do they will want to go off on their own even if it's just like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1513">TS</a>]
00:25:16 ◼ ► know like I just wanna go often and make make letterpress or something like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1516">TS</a>]
00:25:20 ◼ ► you know Apple's not interested in Napa maybe you are and you can't do that with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1520">TS</a>]
00:25:24 ◼ ► an apple and so you like right well you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1524">TS</a>]
00:25:27 ◼ ► I worked on this I worked on that they were great it's really important work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1527">TS</a>]
00:25:30 ◼ ► lots of people use it but i just want to do my thing so I think I think it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1530">TS</a>]
00:25:34 ◼ ► inevitable and also you know you can you can kind of get some idea that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1534">TS</a>]
00:25:39 ◼ ► most of the people I know and maybe this is just the people i've i've observed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1539">TS</a>]
00:25:42 ◼ ► cause to I follow on Twitter or whatever but most of the people I know who have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1542">TS</a>]
00:25:46 ◼ ► left Apple have gone too much smaller companies often times they've they've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1546">TS</a>]
00:25:52 ◼ ► gone to start a startup and I think it's it's part of what you said John is part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1552">TS</a>]
00:25:56 ◼ ► of you know them wanting to do something on a much smaller scale where they can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1556">TS</a>]
00:25:59 ◼ ► have a bigger role or make a product that Apple would never make but I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1559">TS</a>]
00:26:04 ◼ ► part of it also is that Apple has created this entire environment this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1564">TS</a>]
00:26:10 ◼ ► entire ecosystem of small start-ups being able to succeed and one person [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1570">TS</a>]
00:26:14 ◼ ► shops be able to succeed on the App Store and and their people being in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1574">TS</a>]
00:26:20 ◼ ► charge of of the stuff for working on the frameworks are or working in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1580">TS</a>]
00:26:24 ◼ ► photo released being surrounded by by other developers who are working in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1584">TS</a>]
00:26:28 ◼ ► world that has to be very tempting for people who work inside of Apple to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1588">TS</a>]
00:26:33 ◼ ► looking at all these other people making probably way more money than they make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1593">TS</a>]
00:26:37 ◼ ► their job at Apple and and doing really cool things and and making products from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1597">TS</a>]
00:26:41 ◼ ► scratch and having no boss you know to watch that from from the inside and not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1601">TS</a>]
00:26:49 ◼ ► be able to participate that has to be very tempting and I bet that pulls lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1609">TS</a>]
00:26:54 ◼ ► of people out of Apple but isn't the converse is also true in the sense that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1614">TS</a>]
00:26:58 ◼ ► lets say I was a middle of the road [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1618">TS</a>]
00:27:01 ◼ ► self employed iOS developer and I have a few apps or maybe just one app in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1621">TS</a>]
00:27:08 ◼ ► App Store that's popular but not see it it's barely self-sustaining and an apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1628">TS</a>]
00:27:13 ◼ ► says to me hey why don't you interview with us I can't imagine it would be like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1633">TS</a>]
00:27:18 ◼ ► no I really like being my own person and it's hard for me to fathom what it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1638">TS</a>]
00:27:24 ◼ ► like to be self-employed because I've worked for the man my entire life but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1644">TS</a>]
00:27:28 ◼ ► guess what I'm saying is if if I was not a superstar if I was just a regular Joe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1648">TS</a>]
00:27:34 ◼ ► who is trying to to do his own thing in the App Store and Apple said hey we've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1654">TS</a>]
00:27:39 ◼ ► we really liked it and we'd like you to interview you got to imagine I'd be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1659">TS</a>]
00:27:43 ◼ ► thrilled that that opportunity would be so moved to California that I do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1663">TS</a>]
00:27:49 ◼ ► well and that's a very very fair point and didn't do the telecommuting thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1669">TS</a>]
00:27:53 ◼ ► really and that's not a limiting factor you want to work for Apple you gotta [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1673">TS</a>]
00:27:57 ◼ ► live in apple and living in apple and is expensive and maybe that's not where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1677">TS</a>]
00:28:00 ◼ ► your family has maybe that's not where you want to live and if you live out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1680">TS</a>]
00:28:03 ◼ ► there you have a lot of competition for that job or other people have a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1683">TS</a>]
00:28:08 ◼ ► competition for employer like if you live out there already [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1688">TS</a>]
00:28:13 ◼ ► then you can go work for any number of big tech companies plus an infinite [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1693">TS</a>]
00:28:17 ◼ ► number of small ones and that's a really good point it really honestly is and I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1697">TS</a>]
00:28:23 ◼ ► hypothesizing I don't know what any of this is like but I guess what I'm saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1703">TS</a>]
00:28:28 ◼ ► is as much as Apple is arguably pleading talent I i cant imagine that it's that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1708">TS</a>]
00:28:33 ◼ ► hard for them to find new talent that being said a revolving doors clearly not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1713">TS</a>]
00:28:38 ◼ ► a sustainable approach so you know it's it's it's an odd thing to talk to think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1718">TS</a>]
00:28:43 ◼ ► about its not just think it's not just the people who like go there are a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1723">TS</a>]
00:28:47 ◼ ► superstar do something awesome like you know design the UI for the original iOS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1727">TS</a>]
00:28:52 ◼ ► iPhone OS as it was then launched the original iPhone may be due on to other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1732">TS</a>]
00:28:56 ◼ ► projects and say right well now and I feel like I have all the all the towns [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1736">TS</a>]
00:29:00 ◼ ► under my belt to do but it is basically whatever I want and I want to be the one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1740">TS</a>]
00:29:03 ◼ ► in charge you can only have so many chiefs you know I gotta be Indians [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1743">TS</a>]
00:29:06 ◼ ► especially at a company like Apple going to limited number of things only a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1746">TS</a>]
00:29:10 ◼ ► limited number of people who is an h1b reference for native americans mark I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1750">TS</a>]
00:29:16 ◼ ► don't know for allowed to call them taking a turn so I get there is there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1756">TS</a>]
00:29:23 ◼ ► that feeling that you want to like I want to be the guy who calls the shots [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1763">TS</a>]
00:29:27 ◼ ► right and so that those people go off and do that but it's not just the people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1767">TS</a>]
00:29:31 ◼ ► who like when I came in at the bottom I learned some stuff and now I'm able to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1771">TS</a>]
00:29:33 ◼ ► go off on my own you know I like you said you can make more money my friends [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1773">TS</a>]
00:29:36 ◼ ► are making these hit applications making tons more money than I am I can be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1776">TS</a>]
00:29:40 ◼ ► part of my own business I could have you know unlimited income limited only by my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1780">TS</a>]
00:29:43 ◼ ► success not by like a review process and the cost of living raises and bonuses [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1783">TS</a>]
00:29:47 ◼ ► like maybe stock options are lucky think about but run for transfer Leigh who was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1787">TS</a>]
00:29:53 ◼ ► one of the guys in charge of making presumably tons of money he didn't leave [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1793">TS</a>]
00:29:57 ◼ ► Apple because he didn't get to be in charge of stuff i mean he wasn't Steve [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1797">TS</a>]
00:30:03 ◼ ► Jobs but he was like two or three runs down there anyone you know very few [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1803">TS</a>]
00:30:07 ◼ ► people have that level of power and he certainly wasn't you know I'm so bitter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1807">TS</a>]
00:30:12 ◼ ► that these people making money in the App Store he just wants to go and do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1812">TS</a>]
00:30:14 ◼ ► something different and no matter where you are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1814">TS</a>]
00:30:18 ◼ ► except maybe if you're the very very top of that pyramid if you have an itch to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1818">TS</a>]
00:30:22 ◼ ► go do something you can't do with an Apple if it's not something that Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1822">TS</a>]
00:30:26 ◼ ► wants to do and so he left to do whatever his secret startup is right now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1826">TS</a>]
00:30:30 ◼ ► he didn't retired like you know sit on the beach and you know county's money [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1830">TS</a>]
00:30:35 ◼ ► and watch the waves come in he won he said he had an intellectual its and he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1835">TS</a>]
00:30:40 ◼ ► wanted to do something and so he left to do it and that's that's never gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1840">TS</a>]
00:30:46 ◼ ► happen in a company where you hire people who visit you wonder how many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1846">TS</a>]
00:30:50 ◼ ► people who could be the Steve Jobs of their own company but you want to work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1850">TS</a>]
00:30:55 ◼ ► for you and is anyone I kind of like get them as long as you possibly can and get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1855">TS</a>]
00:31:00 ◼ ► hit when you can out of them but I don't think Apple is better than they go off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1860">TS</a>]
00:31:03 ◼ ► and do things on their own if anything it's like it if we have an employee who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1863">TS</a>]
00:31:07 ◼ ► couldn't leave Appling go off and do better for themselves maybe we didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1867">TS</a>]
00:31:10 ◼ ► make the ride higher like that's you know that's that's the calculus there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1870">TS</a>]
00:31:14 ◼ ► they want all people who could do better outside of Apple they want to keep them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1874">TS</a>]
00:31:17 ◼ ► for as long as they can you know get the best workout of them I guess I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1877">TS</a>]
00:31:22 ◼ ► it's interesting maybe to distinguish you know they were talking about how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1882">TS</a>]
00:31:27 ◼ ► Apple's having trouble getting talent but that seems to be mostly at the lower [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1887">TS</a>]
00:31:31 ◼ ► levels of the company and the mid-level the company at the upper levels of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1891">TS</a>]
00:31:34 ◼ ► company they seem to have for the most part pretty strong loyalty and pretty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1894">TS</a>]
00:31:40 ◼ ► long running people there and so maybe executives I mean can can a middle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1900">TS</a>]
00:31:47 ◼ ► manager Ken a middle manager go off and do their own thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1907">TS</a>]
00:31:50 ◼ ► and be as successful as far as apple now has a certain point when you get high [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1910">TS</a>]
00:31:53 ◼ ► enough I get a fair trial is an exception because he was an engineer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1913">TS</a>]
00:31:56 ◼ ► relation but there are people who just managers and if you're a long time and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1916">TS</a>]
00:32:00 ◼ ► you can be making lots of money maybe you don't care that you don't have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1920">TS</a>]
00:32:03 ◼ ► tell the company when the company gets to do like there's room for middle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1923">TS</a>]
00:32:08 ◼ ► those people are gonna leave voluntarily yeah I guess that's true but I mean if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1928">TS</a>]
00:32:13 ◼ ► you look at other companies I think Apple is pretty good at retaining the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1933">TS</a>]
00:32:16 ◼ ► upper yeah people and so I guess the question is like you know the upper [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1936">TS</a>]
00:32:21 ◼ ► people obviously like a frequent changes there would probably be way more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1941">TS</a>]
00:32:25 ◼ ► disruptive to the company then frequent changes at the lower levels of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1945">TS</a>]
00:32:29 ◼ ► company are frequent changes at lower levels [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1949">TS</a>]
00:32:34 ◼ ► really something that they should be worried about or should I just keep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1954">TS</a>]
00:32:38 ◼ ► trying to make the best stuff and and keep keeper day like the other people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1958">TS</a>]
00:32:42 ◼ ► and just kinda hope that a lot of people keep coming in fashion going out I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1962">TS</a>]
00:32:47 ◼ ► they probably need to figure out some way to prolong the really smart people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1967">TS</a>]
00:32:53 ◼ ► stay by giving them some way to flex their independence and desire to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1973">TS</a>]
00:32:58 ◼ ► something like it's it's totally against Apple's ammo to do you know the computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1978">TS</a>]
00:33:02 ◼ ► called a concept cars or have something like Google Labs or 20% time those are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1982">TS</a>]
00:33:07 ◼ ► just not in Apple's culture but Apple culture so far in the other direction if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1987">TS</a>]
00:33:12 ◼ ► you can just give people some outlet within that structure to say you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1992">TS</a>]
00:33:17 ◼ ► there is a slim chance however some like the lottery however slim that you may be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/1997">TS</a>]
00:33:21 ◼ ► able to get us to do your crazy idea like I think of the original Xbox right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2001">TS</a>]
00:33:26 ◼ ► so he was jailed hard and maybe one other person had the idea to do a gaming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2006">TS</a>]
00:33:31 ◼ ► console and they were not like vice presidents when they came up with this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2011">TS</a>]
00:33:34 ◼ ► idea they were you know pretty much rank-and-file employees had been there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2014">TS</a>]
00:33:38 ◼ ► for a while but we're not not in a position to say we should make a game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2018">TS</a>]
00:33:42 ◼ ► console but they were able to take that idea and pick it up up up the ladder and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2022">TS</a>]
00:33:47 ◼ ► eventually convince Microsoft to make a game console and became a big part of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2027">TS</a>]
00:33:51 ◼ ► that process so good to be upgraded to go back and tell know they became you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2031">TS</a>]
00:33:55 ◼ ► bigwigs in charge of that project that can happen inside Microsoft released [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2035">TS</a>]
00:34:00 ◼ ► happened once there are plenty of people in lower positions and Apple whose ideas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2040">TS</a>]
00:34:04 ◼ ► come to fruition and become a big type of thing but I'm not sure they go with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2044">TS</a>]
00:34:09 ◼ ► those ideas up the ladder so if you could just give make some sort of form [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2049">TS</a>]
00:34:13 ◼ ► within the company for these independent people to come up with something that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2053">TS</a>]
00:34:16 ◼ ► it's possible to pick its way up and become the next big you know killer on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2056">TS</a>]
00:34:20 ◼ ► the story even if that only happens like once every 10 years or something I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2060">TS</a>]
00:34:24 ◼ ► know how not have a set of her work for Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2064">TS</a>]
00:34:26 ◼ ► just speculating on the outside but it but it might be like but I think that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2066">TS</a>]
00:34:31 ◼ ► type of bike 20% time however BS it is the Google these days and Google Labs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2071">TS</a>]
00:34:36 ◼ ► type things that ended pre Google+ days let's say before Google tried to become [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2076">TS</a>]
00:34:40 ◼ ► a nightly focused that was a lot of the reason I think a lot of really smart [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2080">TS</a>]
00:34:44 ◼ ► people stayed in Google because whether it actually hit anything actually came [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2084">TS</a>]
00:34:48 ◼ ► to fruition not there was the idea that it was a bunch of smart people doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2088">TS</a>]
00:34:51 ◼ ► lots of interesting things and all sorts of directions and why would you leave to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2091">TS</a>]
00:34:55 ◼ ► go anyplace else because here they give you a nice salary they feed you they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2095">TS</a>]
00:34:59 ◼ ► take care of you you have health insurance it's a nice job and you kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2099">TS</a>]
00:35:03 ◼ ► of sort of get to do whatever you want to know is that thing whatever you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2103">TS</a>]
00:35:05 ◼ ► to become the next gmail email came from night or the next Google Reader before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2105">TS</a>]
00:35:10 ◼ ► you know that an hour within the Google that environment within Google the pre [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2110">TS</a>]
00:35:15 ◼ ► Google+ Google I think that served as a magnet to pull people into Google and to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2115">TS</a>]
00:35:21 ◼ ► keep people into Google may be the wrong kind of people that maybe not the kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2121">TS</a>]
00:35:24 ◼ ► of people Apple ones but Apple needs just a little bit more than a half now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2124">TS</a>]
00:35:29 ◼ ► and I think that would help them keep people for I say six months longer but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2129">TS</a>]
00:35:36 ◼ ► yeah I think that's that's a wise thing I think I agree with everything you said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2136">TS</a>]
00:35:43 ◼ ► what what's hard to reconcile is if you look at the big players in california [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2143">TS</a>]
00:35:48 ◼ ► and lemme hedge heavily by saying i'm an East Coast I've only been to California [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2148">TS</a>]
00:35:52 ◼ ► handful of times my life and in fact at least half of them were for WWDC I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2152">TS</a>]
00:35:58 ◼ ► understand what the what the culture and when what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2158">TS</a>]
00:36:00 ◼ ► the technology sector looks like out there so I apologize for getting all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2160">TS</a>]
00:36:04 ◼ ► following wrong email Marco but if you're if you're really bright engineer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2164">TS</a>]
00:36:09 ◼ ► and you're really passionate about writing code where are your options I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2169">TS</a>]
00:36:15 ◼ ► mean you can go to Microsoft but most people would perceive that is just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2175">TS</a>]
00:36:19 ◼ ► corporates to chill and you can go to Google which means your entire purpose [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2179">TS</a>]
00:36:24 ◼ ► in life is to sell ads you can go to Yahoo which means you're the only bright [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2184">TS</a>]
00:36:29 ◼ ► star in a cloudy sky which some people might like but is not my cup and see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2189">TS</a>]
00:36:34 ◼ ► where you can go to Apple and and at least Apple is devoted to pleasing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2194">TS</a>]
00:36:40 ◼ ► customers as opposed to telling customers they're out to please them in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2200">TS</a>]
00:36:45 ◼ ► actually in their eyeballs for advertisements that doesn't make sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2205">TS</a>]
00:36:50 ◼ ► like I i I don't see why anyone else would be compelling with the exception [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2210">TS</a>]
00:36:54 ◼ ► as you guys mentioned of startups but I don't know I guess I'm so risk adverse [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2214">TS</a>]
00:36:58 ◼ ► that that doesn't seem that compelling to me either but that's one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2218">TS</a>]
00:37:02 ◼ ► reasons that I think the seniors I could have stayed as well as big especially if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2222">TS</a>]
00:37:05 ◼ ► you're a senior executive like it's the you know you want to sell sugar water [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2225">TS</a>]
00:37:08 ◼ ► for the rest of your life becomes mean change the world like those those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2228">TS</a>]
00:37:11 ◼ ► executives really feel like they can have the biggest impact on the world by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2231">TS</a>]
00:37:16 ◼ ► being a regular good old middle manager in Apple then being a regular girl [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2236">TS</a>]
00:37:22 ◼ ► minimal manager Coco large Mr Proctor and Gamble because they don't feel like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2242">TS</a>]
00:37:26 ◼ ► they're likely to go to parties and I work probably a very important person in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2246">TS</a>]
00:37:30 ◼ ► my body like that that there's also some angles that but it really is a chance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2250">TS</a>]
00:37:37 ◼ ► that same thing for engineers to do something that you think will have an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2257">TS</a>]
00:37:40 ◼ ► impact that used to be Microsoft that was certainly Google probably still is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2260">TS</a>]
00:37:45 ◼ ► cool but you could say you work for Google in that like you know job [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2265">TS</a>]
00:37:49 ◼ ► satisfaction feeling like your job is important and can change the world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2269">TS</a>]
00:37:53 ◼ ► you're not just toiling away and I think Apple is just as much a corporate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2273">TS</a>]
00:37:56 ◼ ► student jobs Microsoft or any other player is a big corporation it's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2276">TS</a>]
00:37:59 ◼ ► it's it is what it is it doesn't it's not a it's not crazily different than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2279">TS</a>]
00:38:03 ◼ ► any other large corporation like say valve or something where it's totally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2283">TS</a>]
00:38:07 ◼ ► outside their own expectations they have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2287">TS</a>]
00:38:08 ◼ ► managers and employees and teams and there may be a couple things that are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2288">TS</a>]
00:38:12 ◼ ► different about them is certainly at the top level the company behave very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2292">TS</a>]
00:38:15 ◼ ► differently in terms of focus on everything but two employees I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2295">TS</a>]
00:38:19 ◼ ► know maybe it's naive of me but I feel like Microsoft's purpose in life may be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2299">TS</a>]
00:38:26 ◼ ► up until recently but Microsoft's purpose in life was to please other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2306">TS</a>]
00:38:30 ◼ ► companies and Yahoo's purpose in life is to buy cool things and ruin them and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2310">TS</a>]
00:38:37 ◼ ► condemns purpose and Google's purpose [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2317">TS</a>]
00:38:39 ◼ ► things and runs into that's true and Google's purpose in life is to sell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2319">TS</a>]
00:38:44 ◼ ► advertisements and and at least Apple's building cool stuff right i mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2324">TS</a>]
00:38:49 ◼ ► corporates to job and I think John you're right it's apples more corporate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2329">TS</a>]
00:38:54 ◼ ► Studi than I care to admit but if you get to choose a corporate student job on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2334">TS</a>]
00:38:58 ◼ ► the left coast is Apple not the best option [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2338">TS</a>]
00:39:03 ◼ ► it also depends on the kind of person you like is that the problem we were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2343">TS</a>]
00:39:07 ◼ ► talking about you know that Apple and its services right to say you are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2347">TS</a>]
00:39:10 ◼ ► someone who does something on the server side datacenters infrastructure type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2350">TS</a>]
00:39:15 ◼ ► software you know you don't want to go work for Apple because Apple has not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2355">TS</a>]
00:39:20 ◼ ► shown that it values those people that part of its business just wanted to work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2360">TS</a>]
00:39:24 ◼ ► doesn't want to hear about it and like this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2364">TS</a>]
00:39:26 ◼ ► the smartest best service i'd people are not going to go when they don't want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2366">TS</a>]
00:39:30 ◼ ► work at Apple because they want to be valued if they if they go working Google [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2370">TS</a>]
00:39:33 ◼ ► they're practically god's you get to work on like you know GFS version 3 over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2373">TS</a>]
00:39:37 ◼ ► to our spanner whenever these are things like those are like serious business [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2377">TS</a>]
00:39:42 ◼ ► like that's the whole company right but Apple you're just like they don't want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2382">TS</a>]
00:39:46 ◼ ► to hear your know who you are anything about you know we have here is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2386">TS</a>]
00:39:50 ◼ ► you're screwing up and just make it like the people who get the Gloria I made the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2390">TS</a>]
00:39:54 ◼ ► iPhone interface so I'm so I am excuse of hardware I work on the opera is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2394">TS</a>]
00:39:57 ◼ ► nobody's getting any glory or any claim or any recognition putting anything in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2397">TS</a>]
00:40:03 ◼ ► open source a contributing anything it was working on service I did Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2403">TS</a>]
00:40:06 ◼ ► forget it so Apple I think cannot hire those people we're talking about like oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2406">TS</a>]
00:40:10 ◼ ► if you're if you're a client-side program or as your designer yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2410">TS</a>]
00:40:14 ◼ ► designers wanna go to Apple client-side native app people want to go to Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2414">TS</a>]
00:40:19 ◼ ► but if you're a web developer services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2419">TS</a>]
00:40:22 ◼ ► person you don't want to go to a problem that's not entirely true I i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2422">TS</a>]
00:40:27 ◼ ► that's mostly true but if you happen to be one of the six people on the planet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2427">TS</a>]
00:40:32 ◼ ► that knows how to do web objects I think you can think of all the other side they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2432">TS</a>]
00:40:37 ◼ ► countered at Sequoia programmers and when you're right you're right but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2437">TS</a>]
00:40:41 ◼ ► think that the six people that do web objects in the world and in a quaint of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2441">TS</a>]
00:40:46 ◼ ► a friend of a friend of a friend does web objects in actually lives nearby to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2446">TS</a>]
00:40:51 ◼ ► where I live and he works for Apple because you know or at least that's my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2451">TS</a>]
00:40:57 ◼ ► understanding I could be totally wrong but my point is if you're if you do one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2457">TS</a>]
00:41:02 ◼ ► of the things that Apple doesn't nobody else does like web objects you can pay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2462">TS</a>]
00:41:07 ◼ ► your own way that's why Apple is having trouble hiring the people they need to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2467">TS</a>]
00:41:12 ◼ ► make their service and stuff better because hiring a bunch of web objects [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2472">TS</a>]
00:41:15 ◼ ► programmers is not going to help them make their stuff better right they want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2475">TS</a>]
00:41:18 ◼ ► the people who are taking the jobs elsewhere gonna come for the next big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2478">TS</a>]
00:41:21 ◼ ► thing early spring have up-to-date with like 10 years ago decker I hand out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2481">TS</a>]
00:41:25 ◼ ► there so far behind so out in the weeds on this they just want to get good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2485">TS</a>]
00:41:30 ◼ ► service i'd people to do their stuff and it's and I bet like it's not just that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2490">TS</a>]
00:41:35 ◼ ► maybe they can get the good service I V 12 good serviceable get there on the go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2495">TS</a>]
00:41:38 ◼ ► like the first thing they do is like we got to get rid of this web objects crap [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2498">TS</a>]
00:41:42 ◼ ► what the hell you guys doing and they'll find out like the culture is like no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2502">TS</a>]
00:41:45 ◼ ► obvious who runs the iTunes store that sells twenty million songs every three [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2505">TS</a>]
00:41:50 ◼ ► seconds and you can't break it and you know you're not gonna rewrite it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2510">TS</a>]
00:41:53 ◼ ► something else just just help us get better but don't change anything like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2513">TS</a>]
00:41:57 ◼ ► that type of attitude that is totally you know talk about corporate jobs like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2517">TS</a>]
00:42:01 ◼ ► that's that's the way it is I became in their realities that have to be dealt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2521">TS</a>]
00:42:05 ◼ ► with you can't come anything like the Apple Store of that should not be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2525">TS</a>]
00:42:08 ◼ ► written that way you just gotta get rid of it replace it with something else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2528">TS</a>]
00:42:11 ◼ ► that's not a big you know what's with the payoffs are willing to risk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2531">TS</a>]
00:42:15 ◼ ► destroying our entire you know multi billion transaction business to from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2535">TS</a>]
00:42:20 ◼ ► what's the benefit of the end of that we differ on by WWF Seattle and give you a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2540">TS</a>]
00:42:24 ◼ ► pass authority you'll be able to get so hard to sell this type projects right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2544">TS</a>]
00:42:28 ◼ ► people go there and like realize that they're not going to change anything and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2548">TS</a>]
00:42:35 ◼ ► Java Facebook and that's true until you have somebody like the verge writing an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2555">TS</a>]
00:42:39 ◼ ► article about how crummy iCloud is that's not their service I guess not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2559">TS</a>]
00:42:45 ◼ ► no no let's we'll get to that in a minute before that let me give our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2565">TS</a>]
00:42:49 ◼ ► sponsor break here this episode is once again sponsored by Squarespace [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2569">TS</a>]
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00:43:41 ◼ ► up and move stuff around drag and drop everything is hosted it is it is just so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2621">TS</a>]
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00:44:55 ◼ ► it's all done for you it's fantastic go to Squarespace dot com check it out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2695">TS</a>]
00:45:00 ◼ ► today and thanks to our space for supporting us once again so is already [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2700">TS</a>]
00:45:04 ◼ ► on the verge called why does an iCloud just work and it's getting a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2704">TS</a>]
00:45:09 ◼ ► attention and I think this is worth a little bit of discussion here and there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2709">TS</a>]
00:45:13 ◼ ► was a great follow-up from Brent Simmons that will get 24 in a little bit but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2713">TS</a>]
00:45:18 ◼ ► what do you think about this article like it basically cites a lot of a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2718">TS</a>]
00:45:23 ◼ ► of users and developers visibly all saying like we tried to build iCloud [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2723">TS</a>]
00:45:28 ◼ ► sync into our apps and it just didn't work and we had to cancel it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2728">TS</a>]
00:45:31 ◼ ► problem I had with it was very few of the developers were named and I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2731">TS</a>]
00:45:36 ◼ ► blame them because if it were me I wouldn't want to be named I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2736">TS</a>]
00:45:39 ◼ ► tremendous respect for I think Pasco from black pixel was named Justin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2739">TS</a>]
00:45:46 ◼ ► Williams was named and I have tremendous respect for those who were named but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2746">TS</a>]
00:45:51 ◼ ► don't think the the message was unfair or invalid everything I've ever heard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2751">TS</a>]
00:45:57 ◼ ► from both prominent people whom I follow on Twitter for example and even friends [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2757">TS</a>]
00:46:02 ◼ ► whom do this locally or who did this ugly lol yeah I know you saw that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2762">TS</a>]
00:46:09 ◼ ► feedback to me anyway the people who I know they do this locally everyone is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2769">TS</a>]
00:46:14 ◼ ► universally said it's it's crap it's in the same way that auto layout is either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2774">TS</a>]
00:46:19 ◼ ► crap or so impossibly difficult to get right that it's effectively crap it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2779">TS</a>]
00:46:25 ◼ ► all crap at it really is but I mean so at what point is this wheel speaking up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2785">TS</a>]
00:46:34 ◼ ► for Apple to really fix it and can they fix it I know Johnny talked at length [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2794">TS</a>]
00:46:37 ◼ ► about how you're skeptical whether they can get this is a tradition that's why I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2797">TS</a>]
00:46:41 ◼ ► said that I cloud core data thing and it specifically what we're talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2801">TS</a>]
00:46:44 ◼ ► here is it's not so much the service I PeopleSmart service I people have danced [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2804">TS</a>]
00:46:49 ◼ ► on the server side stuff being flaky or whatever but as far as I can tell from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2809">TS</a>]
00:46:55 ◼ ► listening to all the same developers and talking to someone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2815">TS</a>]
00:46:57 ◼ ► in person and reading all different articles on their blogs it's a it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2817">TS</a>]
00:47:01 ◼ ► design problem it's it's you know high-level box level design and also an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2821">TS</a>]
00:47:06 ◼ ► API design problem like with the high level designers like is there a way to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2826">TS</a>]
00:47:10 ◼ ► have seventeen different devices with just with a bunch of you know related [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2830">TS</a>]
00:47:14 ◼ ► objects stored in local databases and get them all to sing together without [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2834">TS</a>]
00:47:19 ◼ ► having without doing like what Google does but just like ok well google has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2839">TS</a>]
00:47:22 ◼ ► your mail your emails on their servers and that is the one source of truth in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2842">TS</a>]
00:47:27 ◼ ► the entire world and when you put up in your web browser not like synchronizing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2847">TS</a>]
00:47:31 ◼ ► the state on your web browser that thing is just like this one central source of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2851">TS</a>]
00:47:35 ◼ ► truth everywhere and everyone synchronized with that in all their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2855">TS</a>]
00:47:37 ◼ ► actions like modified this is a bunch of local things to modifications and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2857">TS</a>]
00:47:41 ◼ ► all try to synchronize with each other later sort of in a peer-to-peer type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2861">TS</a>]
00:47:44 ◼ ► fashion and I'm not sure that conceptually and algorithmically they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2864">TS</a>]
00:47:49 ◼ ► worked out how that's supposed to work for arbitrary object models because your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2869">TS</a>]
00:47:54 ◼ ► car did you make up your own object model and make your own relations [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2874">TS</a>]
00:47:57 ◼ ► between things and you know like it's it's not it's not a fixed schema time in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2877">TS</a>]
00:48:02 ◼ ► its its not skinless but it's not like they don't know how your application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2882">TS</a>]
00:48:06 ◼ ► works at trying to make a general-purpose system for any sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2886">TS</a>]
00:48:08 ◼ ► you know tree of objects that you can modify any sort of way and that later go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2888">TS</a>]
00:48:15 ◼ ► to another thing that has its own tree of objects in a different state modify [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2895">TS</a>]
00:48:19 ◼ ► that one and then have to reconcile themselves with each other and have that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2899">TS</a>]
00:48:22 ◼ ► actually work like sometimes you don't know what's supposed to happen so that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2902">TS</a>]
00:48:26 ◼ ► the first promised a compromise looks like the API design that's on top of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2906">TS</a>]
00:48:29 ◼ ► this conceptual thing doesn't give the developers nice ways to do the things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2909">TS</a>]
00:48:34 ◼ ► they want because it probably so complicate like one of the ones they put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2914">TS</a>]
00:48:37 ◼ ► their arms like what someone you know takes my app starts doing stuff with it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2917">TS</a>]
00:48:41 ◼ ► builds you know essentially built an object model for their data and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2921">TS</a>]
00:48:44 ◼ ► they signed iCloud and and their icon account they had previously saw this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2924">TS</a>]
00:48:48 ◼ ► application elsewhere and they had a bunch of big data from from there how do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2928">TS</a>]
00:48:53 ◼ ► I reconcile like to erase everything I have replaced it with what's version of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2933">TS</a>]
00:48:58 ◼ ► this thing I try to merge attitude not related at all like it is just a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2938">TS</a>]
00:49:03 ◼ ► nightmarish type problem and I think conceptually like ignore bugs and North [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2943">TS</a>]
00:49:07 ◼ ► are available nor service speed ignore visibility of anything I just think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2947">TS</a>]
00:49:11 ◼ ► conceptually they don't have something that is nailed down that will work under [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2951">TS</a>]
00:49:16 ◼ ► percent of the time in the layer on top of that oh you know there are bugs and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2956">TS</a>]
00:49:21 ◼ ► their API is that there's no hope for me to say hey tell me when this thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2961">TS</a>]
00:49:24 ◼ ► changes and sometimes gets corrupted it gets wedged and you can't tell what's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2964">TS</a>]
00:49:28 ◼ ► wrong cause I have no API to query is a thing available is it not available as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2968">TS</a>]
00:49:31 ◼ ► new data comment as did not commit like it's just failure on top of failure on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2971">TS</a>]
00:49:36 ◼ ► top of failure is not just one thing so that's why I think like get the best [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2976">TS</a>]
00:49:40 ◼ ► service I've people the world's not gonna save the assistance of seven of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2980">TS</a>]
00:49:43 ◼ ► the layers of things that have gone wrong with this specifically and I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2983">TS</a>]
00:49:47 ◼ ► the conceptually simpler ones like the key-value storage and document storage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2987">TS</a>]
00:49:50 ◼ ► because that the sound design and they're like well last update when so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2990">TS</a>]
00:49:56 ◼ ► can keep you think you values that something when is it something a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2996">TS</a>]
00:49:58 ◼ ► more specific document it's very simple conceptual model then they can put an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/2998">TS</a>]
00:50:03 ◼ ► implication of that which may or may not have a few bucks but it's okay and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3003">TS</a>]
00:50:06 ◼ ► there's enough visibility into and you get stuff done like we were all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3006">TS</a>]
00:50:10 ◼ ► developers you know what it's like when you start programming something and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3010">TS</a>]
00:50:13 ◼ ► didn't think it through conceptually to begin with there is no amount of typing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3013">TS</a>]
00:50:16 ◼ ► you can do after that to make it better you have to just go away like what the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3016">TS</a>]
00:50:19 ◼ ► hell am I doing here this is never gonna work when I haven't even started through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3019">TS</a>]
00:50:23 ◼ ► yet I can't just start blindly typing in putting in weird cases and try to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3023">TS</a>]
00:50:27 ◼ ► this work and that's a situation I think they're in with iCloud korda yeah and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3027">TS</a>]
00:50:31 ◼ ► think from what I've heard in front of seen from the developers I I haven't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3031">TS</a>]
00:50:36 ◼ ► done much like loud I should get up front I the only thing I don't like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3036">TS</a>]
00:50:38 ◼ ► Cloud was a very basic feature of syncing your position and currently read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3038">TS</a>]
00:50:43 ◼ ► article in the magazine which which works sometimes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3043">TS</a>]
00:50:47 ◼ ► value because it's way easier and literally just storing like answering [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3047">TS</a>]
00:50:54 ◼ ► article positions in the article at small and I'm sorry I want you to tell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3054">TS</a>]
00:50:59 ◼ ► me what article you currently reading that's it but you know that the main [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3059">TS</a>]
00:51:05 ◼ ► concerns I've heard have been what you said that the core data saying we should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3065">TS</a>]
00:51:09 ◼ ► I have this whole database of objects in my app and in when I was unveiled I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3069">TS</a>]
00:51:16 ◼ ► believe steve Jobs was was doing this part of the presentation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3076">TS</a>]
00:51:19 ◼ ► he even said like and it works like or did you just you know you guys think it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3079">TS</a>]
00:51:24 ◼ ► just works I never would think that kind of huge applause because he was really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3084">TS</a>]
00:51:33 ◼ ► really cuz that's a really hard problem with that sexy and so you know we work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3093">TS</a>]
00:51:42 ◼ ► we were promised that this would work and so developers Core Data Sync that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3102">TS</a>]
00:51:47 ◼ ► I've always heard has been a complete disaster but I think that any key-value [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3107">TS</a>]
00:51:52 ◼ ► store is fine everything documents I don't know a lot of developers who've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3112">TS</a>]
00:51:55 ◼ ► used to document model because I recently everybody just added a quitar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3115">TS</a>]
00:51:58 ◼ ► your core data if they could well there are there enough things to do not intend [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3118">TS</a>]
00:52:03 ◼ ► to be to be fair to be good to be unfair to the server side people like back in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3123">TS</a>]
00:52:07 ◼ ► the iOS 5 days like almost nothing worked right like evaluate obviously the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3127">TS</a>]
00:52:11 ◼ ► simplest and thats has mostly on and document storage mostly work but had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3131">TS</a>]
00:52:16 ◼ ► some kind of nine bugs and quirks in that can be a little bit weird so all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3136">TS</a>]
00:52:20 ◼ ► these things are slated to begin with but is just like the reason the reason [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3140">TS</a>]
00:52:23 ◼ ► is coming to head now is because I write these things that had time to still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3143">TS</a>]
00:52:26 ◼ ► iCloud didn't come out three months ago right this dark cloud is not brand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3146">TS</a>]
00:52:30 ◼ ► spanking new all these API's like we gave them like the one major version of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3150">TS</a>]
00:52:34 ◼ ► iOS to mature the one major version that goes into mature and now they like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3154">TS</a>]
00:52:39 ◼ ► devalue storage and documents seem to be following the typical path of Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3159">TS</a>]
00:52:42 ◼ ► API's and core data is not like getting better at the biggest problem I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3162">TS</a>]
00:52:50 ◼ ► heard that the court is part is you know the most unreliable part of of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3170">TS</a>]
00:52:54 ◼ ► iCloud sync stuff but I think the much bigger problem with you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3174">TS</a>]
00:52:58 ◼ ► breezed past little bit ago is that everything is tied to the Apple iTV is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3178">TS</a>]
00:53:03 ◼ ► currently signed in and that people sign out of Apple IDs in two different Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3183">TS</a>]
00:53:08 ◼ ► IDs on their devices fairly frequently you know not everyone doing every day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3188">TS</a>]
00:53:14 ◼ ► but there's a good number of people who do it regularly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3194">TS</a>]
00:53:17 ◼ ► yasser that they have APIC like oh and you're gonna keep in mind that when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3197">TS</a>]
00:53:22 ◼ ► launch you may not be in the same app ideas when you're stuck with me then you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3202">TS</a>]
00:53:25 ◼ ► may get his car back that means they changed Apple IDs and like they've made [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3205">TS</a>]
00:53:28 ◼ ► their where this gonna happen but they do I kinda shoving her into the car [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3208">TS</a>]
00:53:31 ◼ ► of the programming site and you'll figure out what to do when that happens [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3211">TS</a>]
00:53:34 ◼ ► like what am I supposed to do you know in some cases like all the pre-existing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3214">TS</a>]
00:53:39 ◼ ► data gets deleted like there was in your local directory like it you know I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3219">TS</a>]
00:53:42 ◼ ► what if I hadn't synced bad and like it's gone now like you don't have it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3222">TS</a>]
00:53:47 ◼ ► it's like it's like you know throwing an exception if you can't you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3227">TS</a>]
00:53:50 ◼ ► discus for something and I'll catch except when you gonna do about delete [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3230">TS</a>]
00:53:54 ◼ ► stuff but sometimes you can't there's no saying recovery or there's nothing like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3234">TS</a>]
00:54:01 ◼ ► the case absolutely not like like all we have a call doctor when they change [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3241">TS</a>]
00:54:04 ◼ ► things and and will automatically count all the old and you're ready to go again [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3244">TS</a>]
00:54:07 ◼ ► on my way to second like from you should check like what if you want to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3247">TS</a>]
00:54:12 ◼ ► something different with you I tell people this is happening that they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3252">TS</a>]
00:54:14 ◼ ► gonna end up deleting all the local data and like I just don't think it's been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3254">TS</a>]
00:54:19 ◼ ► thought through this is all I called data like with the frustration over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3259">TS</a>]
00:54:23 ◼ ► jackals like we talked to happen they don't tell scarce and like their WBC [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3263">TS</a>]
00:54:30 ◼ ► they're gonna come out with like you know the API for one of the apology [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3270">TS</a>]
00:54:33 ◼ ► mouse from New York we're sorry for the puck luck on your children and your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3273">TS</a>]
00:54:39 ◼ ► chair there's a same database thinking you know like that come out of it's kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3279">TS</a>]
00:54:44 ◼ ► it's kind of a decision gives me some hope you like MobileMe was a disaster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3284">TS</a>]
00:54:47 ◼ ► and had to change the name you get iCloud but they have had at least one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3287">TS</a>]
00:54:50 ◼ ► instance where they had something that was a disaster and they cannot with a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3290">TS</a>]
00:54:54 ◼ ► much better awesome version of it didn't change the name that's file fault 4501 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3294">TS</a>]
00:54:59 ◼ ► was just a mess and 512 kept the same name but is totally unrelated other name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3299">TS</a>]
00:55:05 ◼ ► and it did the same function and is awesome so far but two is awesome [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3305">TS</a>]
00:55:08 ◼ ► following this terrible so if I cloud core data syncing at this is considered [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3308">TS</a>]
00:55:12 ◼ ► a soft like something else comes out that's different and the same as this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3312">TS</a>]
00:55:16 ◼ ► new thing just forget about the whole thing they can still call it like latkas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3316">TS</a>]
00:55:18 ◼ ► iCloud is an umbrella term that already covers on 10 different things and why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3318">TS</a>]
00:55:22 ◼ ► not just keep changing out the scope is like and they have the advantage of not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3322">TS</a>]
00:55:26 ◼ ► having this user base like wait what about all the successful applications [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3326">TS</a>]
00:55:30 ◼ ► built on a club in CoreData sinking they'll have to rewrite know there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3330">TS</a>]
00:55:33 ◼ ► many don't work and I think you're right though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3333">TS</a>]
00:55:37 ◼ ► conceptually this is a problem like what it like the biggest problem being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3337">TS</a>]
00:55:44 ◼ ► usually that you know people who sign in and out of different Apple IDs what is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3344">TS</a>]
00:55:48 ◼ ► the app supposed to do about that like I don't think that's the kind of thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3348">TS</a>]
00:55:51 ◼ ► that could necessarily be fixed with a revision to the API or a new service ID [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3351">TS</a>]
00:55:57 ◼ ► back end because it's like like member like a year ago it was a whole debate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3357">TS</a>]
00:56:00 ◼ ► about the guy who's iPhone alarm went off in the symphony and and the whole it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3360">TS</a>]
00:56:05 ◼ ► was the whole thing we know what should the behavior of the of the alarm be with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3365">TS</a>]
00:56:09 ◼ ► overriding the sound switch and back then about it and you know my theory was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3369">TS</a>]
00:56:15 ◼ ► you know this is a hard problem because you've told the phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3375">TS</a>]
00:56:20 ◼ ► wake me up at this time no matter what and you've also told the phone don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3380">TS</a>]
00:56:24 ◼ ► make noise right now and so you've given these conflicting directives I was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3384">TS</a>]
00:56:28 ◼ ► problem with how 9002 conflicting directives and no matter what choice you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3388">TS</a>]
00:56:35 ◼ ► make it going to anger some some portion of the user base that's non-trivial and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3395">TS</a>]
00:56:38 ◼ ► and so it's kind of that's kind of a problem with the user at that point well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3398">TS</a>]
00:56:42 ◼ ► with this you know what I cloud syncing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3402">TS</a>]
00:56:45 ◼ ► you've made the system where your data is tied to the to whatever Apple idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3405">TS</a>]
00:56:52 ◼ ► signed in in all your apps like that's your latest tied to that and then but a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3412">TS</a>]
00:56:57 ◼ ► lot of people have different Apple IDs some people like a couple will share [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3417">TS</a>]
00:57:00 ◼ ► when Apple IDs they don't pay for apps twice to be in both of their phones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3420">TS</a>]
00:57:04 ◼ ► some people have different Apple idea for their for being a developer versus [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3424">TS</a>]
00:57:07 ◼ ► being a consumer like there's lots of reasons why people have different Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3427">TS</a>]
00:57:11 ◼ ► IDs and an apple does not make it easy to to merge them or switch them or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3431">TS</a>]
00:57:16 ◼ ► anything like that so it's a very common thing and you know if your app has its [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3436">TS</a>]
00:57:21 ◼ ► own sync platform then it has some kind of concept of being logged in to that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3441">TS</a>]
00:57:27 ◼ ► and so if you change your Apple I D [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3447">TS</a>]
00:57:29 ◼ ► system wide to go use a certain app or do a certain thing and a new launch you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3449">TS</a>]
00:57:35 ◼ ► know my note taking app whatever ext cloud plus then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3455">TS</a>]
00:57:40 ◼ ► then you know i i don't lose that sink Association from rapidly because I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3460">TS</a>]
00:57:47 ◼ ► using my own custom sync thing that you've logged into and if you actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3467">TS</a>]
00:57:49 ◼ ► go into my appt and want to sync with a different thing you have like going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3469">TS</a>]
00:57:55 ◼ ► my apt and logged out explicitly of that account and presumably that stuff is all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3475">TS</a>]
00:57:59 ◼ ► storage server side and then you can log into something else like it it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3479">TS</a>]
00:58:02 ◼ ► deliberate user action whereas if you're using iCloud syncing users might not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3482">TS</a>]
00:58:07 ◼ ► realize they probably almost never do realize that if they log out system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3487">TS</a>]
00:58:12 ◼ ► modify cloud then the data in XYZ is gonna be blown away and the worst part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3492">TS</a>]
00:58:17 ◼ ► is that it that they may be blown away and that they may never have made it to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3497">TS</a>]
00:58:22 ◼ ► never been sick rises actually got like the app is any way to tell that well I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3502">TS</a>]
00:58:28 ◼ ► mean some of these things you get to sleep at like say it's a the existing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3508">TS</a>]
00:58:31 ◼ ► API strongly bug free and like and you got these callbacks and you were given [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3511">TS</a>]
00:58:36 ◼ ► an obligate add new API's like oh we're about to change rapidly may be there to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3516">TS</a>]
00:58:39 ◼ ► have this you have an opportunity to save the stuff off the side of whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3519">TS</a>]
00:58:42 ◼ ► you still end up in situations where like what if I do these three changes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3522">TS</a>]
00:58:46 ◼ ► this device to these four changes not divisive completing before changes not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3526">TS</a>]
00:58:49 ◼ ► device to conflicting more or less simultaneously had turned these two on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3529">TS</a>]
00:58:52 ◼ ► then turn those too often turn the third one back on like to try to figure out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3532">TS</a>]
00:58:56 ◼ ► what the state should allow modifications to continue what about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3536">TS</a>]
00:58:59 ◼ ► when I turn this to backup Mike reconciling is all without a single [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3539">TS</a>]
00:59:03 ◼ ► central source of truth like Gmail where the just everyone communicated to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3543">TS</a>]
00:59:08 ◼ ► server and model makes a lot of kids they're allowing you to make the local [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3548">TS</a>]
00:59:11 ◼ ► modifications in trying to resolve that into it like a a replaceable transaction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3551">TS</a>]
00:59:15 ◼ ► log their results in some sort of consistent thing you can make something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3555">TS</a>]
00:59:18 ◼ ► that's like provably like you it will it will have a deterministic consistent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3558">TS</a>]
00:59:22 ◼ ► result but the odds that being the result being what the users expected it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3562">TS</a>]
00:59:27 ◼ ► are probably zero because the users will inevitably issue a series of conflicting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3567">TS</a>]
00:59:31 ◼ ► instructions and when I think synchronized no matter what the stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3571">TS</a>]
00:59:35 ◼ ► packs it's sometimes it's not going to be what they wanted because they gave [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3575">TS</a>]
00:59:39 ◼ ► conflicting instructions there is actually no right answer so that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3579">TS</a>]
00:59:42 ◼ ► something like the model they're using for a coordinated you know arbitrary [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3582">TS</a>]
00:59:46 ◼ ► object graph sinking is never even if it's a hundred percent bug-free is never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3586">TS</a>]
00:59:51 ◼ ► going to to look to users like them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3591">TS</a>]
00:59:53 ◼ ► magical hey everything just works because it's you know that they will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3593">TS</a>]
00:59:58 ◼ ► they will issue conflicting demands with their actions on the original devices in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3598">TS</a>]
01:00:02 ◼ ► Windows devices synchronized even assuming zero bugs and perfect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3602">TS</a>]
01:00:05 ◼ ► performance they're going to be sad that they're going up quote-unquote losing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3605">TS</a>]
01:00:09 ◼ ► data even if you were to say let me say you not to lose data because here's how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3609">TS</a>]
01:00:14 ◼ ► we reconcile things and you see these series of collecting fans can only do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3614">TS</a>]
01:00:17 ◼ ► one thing you can have this and have that well but I want the other thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3617">TS</a>]
01:00:21 ◼ ► actually I really want to merge of those too but with me manually picking like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3621">TS</a>]
01:00:26 ◼ ► can't know that you know so that's that's never going to make people happy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3626">TS</a>]
01:00:30 ◼ ► and i cant im not sure what this solution there is except for maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3630">TS</a>]
01:00:34 ◼ ► having I mean you can't do it but Google does you can't have every single changed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3634">TS</a>]
01:00:39 ◼ ► your application sending commands up to a server [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3639">TS</a>]
01:00:42 ◼ ► you know i mean Google+ gmail too but I think like they've the reason I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3642">TS</a>]
01:00:49 ◼ ► it's because they have a defined data model that is not as complicated and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3649">TS</a>]
01:00:53 ◼ ► know its application but with messages and labels stop its not arbitrarily [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3653">TS</a>]
01:00:59 ◼ ► structured interrelated data objects and Objective C that you get the right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3659">TS</a>]
01:01:03 ◼ ► yourself and this is a good segue to the brink Simmons response article did you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3663">TS</a>]
01:01:09 ◼ ► read this yet it's called why developers shouldn't use iCloud sync even if it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3669">TS</a>]
01:01:13 ◼ ► worked I read it as well and then I was gonna bring this up in as well because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3673">TS</a>]
01:01:20 ◼ ► and forgive me for a kind of interrupting your tangent but one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3680">TS</a>]
01:01:27 ◼ ► things that I find very interesting about iCloud is that Aaron and I shane [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3687">TS</a>]
01:01:30 ◼ ► is to share the same Apple store I D so we can share the same apps and so on and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3690">TS</a>]
01:01:37 ◼ ► so forth we have different iCloud ID's and if we had say a shared grocery list [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3697">TS</a>]
01:01:43 ◼ ► we can't share grocery list if we're using Eichler that app is using iCloud [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3703">TS</a>]
01:01:49 ◼ ► the background in Brent talks a lot about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3709">TS</a>]
01:01:53 ◼ ► iCloud is very personal and not very social and I hate social because that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3713">TS</a>]
01:01:58 ◼ ► as big a buzz word is brand but but nonetheless I feel like there's some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3718">TS</a>]
01:02:03 ◼ ► amount of truth to that and brand Brent brings this up in our presume market [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3723">TS</a>]
01:02:06 ◼ ► you're about to recap what some of the other things he said that's one of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3726">TS</a>]
01:02:11 ◼ ► I mean it's exactly true and and and if I were to write I've thought about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3731">TS</a>]
01:02:18 ◼ ► writing a a very very simple shared list keeping appt so that area and I can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3738">TS</a>]
01:02:25 ◼ ► share grocery list are packing list or eighty Home Depot or Lowes list but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3745">TS</a>]
01:02:30 ◼ ► can use iCloud for that because we can't share it because we're on different I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3750">TS</a>]
01:02:33 ◼ ► cloudy now actually is wonder list which I'm not a tremendous fan of but it does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3753">TS</a>]
01:02:40 ◼ ► the job a lot of people I know use Google Docs for that and we use Google [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3760">TS</a>]
01:02:45 ◼ ► counter to share counters and we do use Google counters one of the reasons we do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3765">TS</a>]
01:02:49 ◼ ► that is because I don't think it's been caught up in this kind of deep level but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3769">TS</a>]
01:02:54 ◼ ► the reality is that we never worried about Google document saying in sync we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3774">TS</a>]
01:02:59 ◼ ► never worried about Google Calendar staying in sync with our various devices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3779">TS</a>]
01:03:02 ◼ ► because we always know when we're making changes we are directly manipulating the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3782">TS</a>]
01:03:05 ◼ ► state of something on a survey and where and it's just it's always in sync you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3785">TS</a>]
01:03:08 ◼ ► know like it's never it's never not in sync because there's no it's not like we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3788">TS</a>]
01:03:13 ◼ ► don't use any offline modes right the downside of course is that we can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3793">TS</a>]
01:03:17 ◼ ► actually make modifications to our calendar for offline but thus far that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3797">TS</a>]
01:03:21 ◼ ► has not come up not only doesn't for that scenario is going to be less and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3801">TS</a>]
01:03:28 ◼ ► conceptual simplicity of how does how does document sharing with a Google [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3808">TS</a>]
01:03:33 ◼ ► document work live in real-time always synchronize that's how it works and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3813">TS</a>]
01:03:38 ◼ ► like and you just you just don't think about it and just like that model very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3818">TS</a>]
01:03:43 ◼ ► difficult to do well and bug free and fast and all that stuff but conceptually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3823">TS</a>]
01:03:47 ◼ ► it's understandable to people and they they come to trust it whereas no I'm not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3827">TS</a>]
01:03:52 ◼ ► even developers of applications can have any idea how things are working even 10 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3832">TS</a>]
01:03:56 ◼ ► bucks and I like that the bugs as a couple things I read about iCloud [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3836">TS</a>]
01:04:02 ◼ ► unpublished as yet hopefully it will be published some point in the future [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3842">TS</a>]
01:04:06 ◼ ► the worst part of any of these type of things when you add on top of all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3846">TS</a>]
01:04:10 ◼ ► stuff we talked about the type of bugs where there's nothing you can do to help [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3850">TS</a>]
01:04:16 ◼ ► your user there's nothing like Apple can do to help your user just like things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3856">TS</a>]
01:04:20 ◼ ► get wedged in a way that that even a developer can be expected to figure out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3860">TS</a>]
01:04:24 ◼ ► on their own let alone individual user and that's what they're talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3864">TS</a>]
01:04:26 ◼ ► the verge articles like a support time suck because sometimes things just get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3866">TS</a>]
01:04:30 ◼ ► the wedged in don't work and there's no visibility of that does not even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3870">TS</a>]
01:04:34 ◼ ► visibility to the developer and less like a cessation to machine guns are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3874">TS</a>]
01:04:38 ◼ ► digging through like you know supposedly hidden directories containing big binary [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3878">TS</a>]
01:04:42 ◼ ► blobs and daemon processes that are hung they're not putting the binary blob in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3882">TS</a>]
01:04:46 ◼ ► the right place and just like is the worst nightmare of trying to debug Elise [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3886">TS</a>]
01:04:50 ◼ ► when you're debugging service I stopped at least you have access to the server [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3890">TS</a>]
01:04:53 ◼ ► and you can see what's going on there this is like the worst of all possible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3893">TS</a>]
01:04:55 ◼ ► worlds like every single person literally does have their own little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3895">TS</a>]
01:04:59 ◼ ► server on their local machine there on the latest or in their machine and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3899">TS</a>]
01:05:03 ◼ ► can't see any of that and talk about the services you also can't see all of which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3903">TS</a>]
01:05:07 ◼ ► have bugs none of which code you wrote you don't even have the source code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3907">TS</a>]
01:05:09 ◼ ► foreign and good luck W that so I'm sorry interrupted you you were gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3909">TS</a>]
01:05:16 ◼ ► bring up the social aspect and you said your gonna bring up something else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3916">TS</a>]
01:05:19 ◼ ► yeah and the other thing is that you know brian says you know keep in mind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3919">TS</a>]
01:05:23 ◼ ► that iCloud is Apple only he says you may think you'll never want an Android a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3923">TS</a>]
01:05:28 ◼ ► browser-based version of your app but are you sure really well yeah I'm pretty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3928">TS</a>]
01:05:36 ◼ ► sure but but now I think you know this is a very good point that you know if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3936">TS</a>]
01:05:44 ◼ ► you're if you're in the iCloud platform business if your app realizing that then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3944">TS</a>]
01:05:49 ◼ ► sure you know that's fine if today you only have an iOS platform but if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3949">TS</a>]
01:05:56 ◼ ► really invest heavily in that you have to be really sure that your only ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3956">TS</a>]
01:05:59 ◼ ► going to have an iOS platform and I don't think that's that's a very safe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3959">TS</a>]
01:06:03 ◼ ► assumption for a lot of things these days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3963">TS</a>]
01:06:05 ◼ ► best but the best part was when he brought what about a Mac App is not so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3965">TS</a>]
01:06:08 ◼ ► to the Mac App Store cuz you can use iCloud there either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3968">TS</a>]
01:06:11 ◼ ► forgotten about those forget about member was like oh well they're putting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3971">TS</a>]
01:06:15 ◼ ► iCloud only in the Mac App Store that'll be like that's to lure you into the Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3975">TS</a>]
01:06:18 ◼ ► App Store now it's like three like another repulsed air it's the opposite [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3978">TS</a>]
01:06:22 ◼ ► effect it's like saying well I really don't wanna be a Mac App Store but only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3982">TS</a>]
01:06:27 ◼ ► the Mac App Store apps that uses awesome new iCloud AP I guess it is kinda like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3987">TS</a>]
01:06:35 ◼ ► it so its own credibility if you choose iCloud not only you just using Apple's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3995">TS</a>]
01:06:39 ◼ ► platform but you choosing also their sales channels like irrevocably yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/3999">TS</a>]
01:06:43 ◼ ► exactly and so i think you know obviously I was making iOS app euro we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4003">TS</a>]
01:06:49 ◼ ► stuck in there and and that's fine but I just think it's unwise to limit yourself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4009">TS</a>]
01:06:55 ◼ ► necessarily like it's it's one thing to say i'm only going to have an iOS app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4015">TS</a>]
01:06:59 ◼ ► right now but it's a whole thing to say I will never have anything but an iOS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4019">TS</a>]
01:07:04 ◼ ► and Mac App Store app like that that's a very very limiting thing and changes of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4024">TS</a>]
01:07:09 ◼ ► policy decisions they could say hey guess what we have a Web API with a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4029">TS</a>]
01:07:13 ◼ ► JavaScript library now you can use iCloud API's from your web app that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4033">TS</a>]
01:07:16 ◼ ► write yourself that would change a lot i mean it if Apple ever open up to two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4036">TS</a>]
01:07:20 ◼ ► service cider or website interaction that would open up tremendously but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4040">TS</a>]
01:07:24 ◼ ► don't think they ever will understand the word no and there's no immediately [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4044">TS</a>]
01:07:31 ◼ ► obvious benefit to them to do that and and so I don't I don't think they will I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4051">TS</a>]
01:07:34 ◼ ► think that would be a big giveaway [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4054">TS</a>]
01:07:36 ◼ ► you know they wanted they want to lock down to their devices in their stores [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4056">TS</a>]
01:07:39 ◼ ► and you know part of its just for control and part of it so they can make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4059">TS</a>]
01:07:43 ◼ ► sure that nobody goes crazy and abuses it through the API's and everything but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4063">TS</a>]
01:07:46 ◼ ► you know whatever the reason I don't think that's ever gonna happen so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4066">TS</a>]
01:07:51 ◼ ► think it's you know it also points out that for most apps needs before sinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4071">TS</a>]
01:07:57 ◼ ► it really isn't that hard to write your own server and to run your own server [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4077">TS</a>]
01:08:00 ◼ ► and it really isn't that expensive and it really isn't that complicated and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4080">TS</a>]
01:08:05 ◼ ► know you can you can design server side stuff to make it to make your life [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4085">TS</a>]
01:08:09 ◼ ► really easy in in two key ways you can make it really cheap to run in scale and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4089">TS</a>]
01:08:14 ◼ ► low needs and you can design the absurd that if the server is not reachable the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4094">TS</a>]
01:08:19 ◼ ► apt is still useful you know and obviously depending on what you're doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4099">TS</a>]
01:08:24 ◼ ► how useful it can be will vary but like with Instapaper it was really easy for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4104">TS</a>]
01:08:29 ◼ ► me to do this because Instapaper is made to be used offline so if the server is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4109">TS</a>]
01:08:34 ◼ ► not reachable the app things it's offline it was still works just fine he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4114">TS</a>]
01:08:40 ◼ ► just can't load new stuff into it but it still works everything to use up and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4120">TS</a>]
01:08:43 ◼ ► once it gets can actually get work so like Instapaper server goes down for an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4123">TS</a>]
01:08:48 ◼ ► hour which is a pretty major downtime for a web thing I'll hear about it from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4128">TS</a>]
01:08:53 ◼ ► a few people but not nearly as many as you would think because everyone else is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4133">TS</a>]
01:08:59 ◼ ► still using the app just fine although there is a big advantage to these type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4139">TS</a>]
01:09:03 ◼ ► of one Apple wants to happen this does happen a lot where like it easy for you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4143">TS</a>]
01:09:09 ◼ ► to talk about it as you have service I didn't even experience but what if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4149">TS</a>]
01:09:11 ◼ ► just a client's I got like maybe you just want someone to take care of that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4151">TS</a>]
01:09:14 ◼ ► other stuff for you and I mean those type of API's allow developers who would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4154">TS</a>]
01:09:20 ◼ ► otherwise not be able to make these type of products to make them or would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4160">TS</a>]
01:09:24 ◼ ► otherwise need more people you know some examples might be okay so Lauren Berger [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4164">TS</a>]
01:09:28 ◼ ► genius programmer great app designer but he is Gabe said he doesn't wanna write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4168">TS</a>]
01:09:33 ◼ ► kind of sort of didn't work when he launches game but you know like if it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4173">TS</a>]
01:09:36 ◼ ► eventually sort of works he doesn't have to do matchmaking he doesn't have to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4176">TS</a>]
01:09:40 ◼ ► accounts at the moment he gets to just write the game part you with newsstand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4180">TS</a>]
01:09:44 ◼ ► mostly monetary things get the money and everything is like you couldn't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4184">TS</a>]
01:09:48 ◼ ► done that but hey you know you can make an application the descriptions that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4188">TS</a>]
01:09:53 ◼ ► does something that native application wouldn't do by using Apple services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4193">TS</a>]
01:09:56 ◼ ► right now you did the web thing yourself anyway because of course you can but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4196">TS</a>]
01:09:59 ◼ ► that's just an extension of the App Store model where maybe don't wanna run [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4199">TS</a>]
01:10:04 ◼ ► the store you don't want to figure out how to sell things to people and getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4204">TS</a>]
01:10:08 ◼ ► the downloads are hosted do other stuff will take over that for you and Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4208">TS</a>]
01:10:11 ◼ ► wants to take over all those things and provide these infrastructure services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4211">TS</a>]
01:10:16 ◼ ► and that's all great when the services actually work and are things that people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4216">TS</a>]
01:10:23 ◼ ► want done and I think I cloud is is all those things except for the working part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4223">TS</a>]
01:10:29 ◼ ► and may be right up to the part where like if you design your own like if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4229">TS</a>]
01:10:33 ◼ ► design your own service to synchronize your stuff you make design something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4233">TS</a>]
01:10:37 ◼ ► and you might design something like I clubs documents in the clouds and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4237">TS</a>]
01:10:40 ◼ ► might decide something like you know Game Center whatever those functions you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4240">TS</a>]
01:10:44 ◼ ► can imagine what would you to undertake on your own to say you know what I need [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4244">TS</a>]
01:10:48 ◼ ► to provide arbitrary server-side synchronization of coordinated across [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4248">TS</a>]
01:10:51 ◼ ► multiple devices I don't think individual developer would would buy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4251">TS</a>]
01:10:56 ◼ ► that off they would think of something simpler like the simple know what is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4256">TS</a>]
01:10:58 ◼ ► that when the simple notice oversight baby I like when third parties who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4258">TS</a>]
01:11:02 ◼ ► created these services they've looked more like traditional more like modern [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4262">TS</a>]
01:11:08 ◼ ► web services and less like what I call for data thing with because they can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4268">TS</a>]
01:11:14 ◼ ► do that they can have little demons running on everyone's machines they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4274">TS</a>]
01:11:17 ◼ ► can't they can make a diamond processing I was that does all this stuff like they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4277">TS</a>]
01:11:20 ◼ ► would be forced to do something that is it to be endpoint that their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4280">TS</a>]
01:11:25 ◼ ► applications talk to you know me like they wouldn't be able to do all this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4285">TS</a>]
01:11:28 ◼ ► crazy stuff that Apple did i think im just bit off more than it could chew in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4288">TS</a>]
01:11:32 ◼ ► this case I mean this is kind of a problem as we discussed two episodes ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4292">TS</a>]
01:11:36 ◼ ► or last episode about I clouds model to the users that it it is the certain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4296">TS</a>]
01:11:43 ◼ ► simplification of hiding the file system and and and doing these things but still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4303">TS</a>]
01:11:46 ◼ ► limited I mean this is kind of like it sounds like Apple bit off more than they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4306">TS</a>]
01:11:51 ◼ ► can chew with a lot of parts of iCloud not just like oh it doesn't work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4311">TS</a>]
01:11:55 ◼ ► reliably but like this was a bad idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4315">TS</a>]
01:12:00 ◼ ► wanna know if it was a bad idea but I just don't know if it's if it's been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4320">TS</a>]
01:12:05 ◼ ► executed well and in when John when you were talking minute ago I feel to some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4325">TS</a>]
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01:12:15 ◼ ► experience but the thing is I've server-side experience in in Microsoft [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4335">TS</a>]
01:12:19 ◼ ► technologies which are expensive and if I was to write say a grocery shopping [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4339">TS</a>]
01:12:24 ◼ ► list that I could share between multiple people like Aaron and myself what are my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4344">TS</a>]
01:12:29 ◼ ► options I can't use iCloud because it's tied to a single iCloud I D so what am I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4349">TS</a>]
01:12:35 ◼ ► gonna do I could do you like parole and be like John or I could you PHP and be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4355">TS</a>]
01:12:40 ◼ ► like Marco I could do Python and B [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4360">TS</a>]
01:12:43 ◼ ► you know what terrible according to you too I could do real well you know me I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4363">TS</a>]
01:12:49 ◼ ► don't know but but if I was going to learn something else for the web backend [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4369">TS</a>]
01:12:52 ◼ ► stuff I would learn Python you can email Marco but the point I'm driving it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4372">TS</a>]
01:12:56 ◼ ► what do i do and interestingly and I think brent talked about this in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4376">TS</a>]
01:13:00 ◼ ► different post maybe I would go to a sure and maybe I would do and and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4380">TS</a>]
01:13:05 ◼ ► doesn't necessitate using C sharp St using.net but from what I've gathered [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4385">TS</a>]
01:13:10 ◼ ► having never played with this as yours are pretty pretty decent way to get some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4390">TS</a>]
01:13:15 ◼ ► sort of quick server-side or cloud database without too much effort with it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4395">TS</a>]
01:13:21 ◼ ► with an Iowa CPI and that's just not a place I don't think that's position [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4401">TS</a>]
01:13:26 ◼ ► Apple wants themselves to be in it maybe they don't care I don't know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4406">TS</a>]
01:13:29 ◼ ► they're doing and I've seen people do like this is that this is a low-tech [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4409">TS</a>]
01:13:33 ◼ ► solution to like client-side people who don't wanna write big service ID service [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4413">TS</a>]
01:13:37 ◼ ► but they know they need one and the like are by just like the grocery list like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4417">TS</a>]
01:13:40 ◼ ► like Dropbox Dropbox was something like what am I just like shavon JSON files [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4420">TS</a>]
01:13:47 ◼ ► onto s3 and have the thing put down and Ike reconcile it because it's just a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4427">TS</a>]
01:13:52 ◼ ► grocery list how I possibly could go wrong worst-case scenario I get superset [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4432">TS</a>]
01:13:56 ◼ ► of a bunch of changes in this an extra items that you don't want I can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4436">TS</a>]
01:13:58 ◼ ► duplicate you know like when you have a confined problem domain you can get away [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4438">TS</a>]
01:14:02 ◼ ► with just the most ridiculous simple possible solutions s3 would be enough I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4442">TS</a>]
01:14:08 ◼ ► into something something other something not the mind of I something not the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4448">TS</a>]
01:14:12 ◼ ► device was something in this third place that's always available and i dont wanna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4452">TS</a>]
01:14:15 ◼ ► make it was available and that's annoying and that's really all I need is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4455">TS</a>]
01:14:19 ◼ ► some market share that's always available and I'll do everything else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4459">TS</a>]
01:14:22 ◼ ► myself in client-side code because I can because it's a grocery list that I got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4462">TS</a>]
01:14:25 ◼ ► some people end up doing that's annoying they would like to not be able to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4465">TS</a>]
01:14:29 ◼ ► that if their needs are satisfied by key-value store in like oh my god I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4469">TS</a>]
01:14:33 ◼ ► cloud and I know where it's coming out Friday and I'm storing like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4473">TS</a>]
01:14:37 ◼ ► like Marcus things like your your last read position and like it's really easy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4477">TS</a>]
01:14:44 ◼ ► non-critical its tube it's a date if i dont have a good throw it away and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4484">TS</a>]
01:14:48 ◼ ► like no big deal or like worst case I can just pick the lock the later one too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4488">TS</a>]
01:14:52 ◼ ► you read from top to bottom like not having to do that and saying I can tell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4492">TS</a>]
01:14:56 ◼ ► you stories that just like makes people smile like a weight I don't have to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4496">TS</a>]
01:15:00 ◼ ► any of that crap I just want to store number somewhere and I could do that for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4500">TS</a>]
01:15:04 ◼ ► me and you know it's like it's like keyless where can I go again came out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4504">TS</a>]
01:15:09 ◼ ► and have a proper lets people using them for everything was like well I didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4509">TS</a>]
01:15:13 ◼ ► need to design some stupid like to see structure ministerial I zip code or in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4513">TS</a>]
01:15:18 ◼ ► this case like this store like a list of values like I just a little bit crazy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4518">TS</a>]
01:15:23 ◼ ► and then you end up like trying to make appeals into your entire database and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4523">TS</a>]
01:15:27 ◼ ► that's bad but not if you give developers a little tiny bit of cool [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4527">TS</a>]
01:15:33 ◼ ► infrastructure that makes them happy but if you keep cranking out the side you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4533">TS</a>]
01:15:38 ◼ ► know we're basically going to do everything for you and don't worry to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4538">TS</a>]
01:15:41 ◼ ► work in a doesn't then you know people scale back and say you know i maybe I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4541">TS</a>]
01:15:44 ◼ ► should go back to uploading Jason Powell says three cause that I'd at least I I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4544">TS</a>]
01:15:48 ◼ ► can have some guarantees about it working in a predictable way that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4548">TS</a>]
01:15:52 ◼ ► predictable it's mostly reliable and to some degree it's a known quantity I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4552">TS</a>]
01:15:59 ◼ ► yeah and and again like you know if if you have simple needs you can write your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4559">TS</a>]
01:16:03 ◼ ► own sync stuff and get another not everyone's going to get their sink stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4563">TS</a>]
01:16:06 ◼ ► correct but again like if it's a grocery list and you have to sync stuff like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4566">TS</a>]
01:16:10 ◼ ► know what's the worst that can happen is not correct you can fix because of all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4570">TS</a>]
01:16:14 ◼ ► the source code you were the worst part is like it if it's going wrong in like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4574">TS</a>]
01:16:19 ◼ ► the you know the demons running on your local matter or wedged in or not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4579">TS</a>]
01:16:23 ◼ ► synchronizing or notify your applications like you don't control that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4583">TS</a>]
01:16:26 ◼ ► code you doin you're not making it run you don't have the source file bugs into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4586">TS</a>]
01:16:31 ◼ ► the black hole and just wait patiently the next major version but in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4591">TS</a>]
01:16:34 ◼ ► meantime your customers just want their stuff to sink and it has been pointed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4594">TS</a>]
01:16:38 ◼ ► out to an article in so short you to read it before you put the whole thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4598">TS</a>]
01:16:42 ◼ ► but you know this stuff and doing the server side stuff is real has really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4602">TS</a>]
01:16:47 ◼ ► gotten so easy in the last five years as so many tools come out to make it really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4607">TS</a>]
01:16:54 ◼ ► easy really chief you have to write so little custom code these days there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4614">TS</a>]
01:16:59 ◼ ► great frameworks there are great services there there are there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4619">TS</a>]
01:17:03 ◼ ► companies will automatically scale up and down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4623">TS</a>]
01:17:05 ◼ ► everything there are a lot of things that are more complex that will require [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4625">TS</a>]
01:17:10 ◼ ► cuts to work but but for the most part for simple needs for most developers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4630">TS</a>]
01:17:14 ◼ ► needs you don't need anything bigger than like a lineout instance or you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4634">TS</a>]
01:17:20 ◼ ► paying paying by the by the cycle on something like Heroku or as your or s3 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4640">TS</a>]
01:17:26 ◼ ► or a PC to and the things that use easy to like for most developers needs one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4646">TS</a>]
01:17:33 ◼ ► virtual server somewhere will cover it and you can write something and whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4653">TS</a>]
01:17:37 ◼ ► framework you find that is understandable to you and as Brent says [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4657">TS</a>]
01:17:42 ◼ ► it was a very good point has been says like if you could learn Coco you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4662">TS</a>]
01:17:49 ◼ ► cocoa industry so obtuse in so many ways like web programming to somebody who's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4669">TS</a>]
01:17:54 ◼ ► who does iOS programming web programming will seem easy by comparison pointers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4674">TS</a>]
01:17:59 ◼ ► and type stuff is that part of the articles say it's not so much that it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4679">TS</a>]
01:18:05 ◼ ► so much easier than it was before your summary of its dead it used to be that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4685">TS</a>]
01:18:11 ◼ ► for for a given amount of effort you get a certain result now if you put in it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4691">TS</a>]
01:18:15 ◼ ► sam nunn effort your result will be so much better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4695">TS</a>]
01:18:18 ◼ ► like the base the base level has risen so much is still going to be complicated [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4698">TS</a>]
01:18:22 ◼ ► lots of stuff to learn and stuff like that but previously if you put in like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4702">TS</a>]
01:18:26 ◼ ► week into getting a service and stuff you'll end up with like something that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4706">TS</a>]
01:18:29 ◼ ► looks like someone who had been just doing service for a week but now you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4709">TS</a>]
01:18:33 ◼ ► have such an incredible like up with all these instructions if you put in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4713">TS</a>]
01:18:37 ◼ ► week your end result will be you're standing on the shoulders of giants who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4717">TS</a>]
01:18:41 ◼ ► created all the infrastructure for you not staring at a blinking cursor on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4721">TS</a>]
01:18:46 ◼ ► bare you know Linux machine and saying okay now I guess I start writing a CGI [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4726">TS</a>]
01:18:51 ◼ ► script there something like your see you have such a leg up so it is really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4731">TS</a>]
01:18:55 ◼ ► complicated not that people stay away I mean when it's like anything else if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4735">TS</a>]
01:19:00 ◼ ► are service I develop you take a lot of stuff for granted but a lot of clients I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4740">TS</a>]
01:19:03 ◼ ► people are starting from basic knowledge that doesn't really help them that much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4743">TS</a>]
01:19:06 ◼ ► but they can follow tutorial to get some sort of rails thing up or even like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4746">TS</a>]
01:19:10 ◼ ► noting just get some sort of note instance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4750">TS</a>]
01:19:13 ◼ ► and you know put a little tiny snippet of code like a coaching strained back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4753">TS</a>]
01:19:16 ◼ ► and you can run that instance on a virtual machine that you can scale up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4756">TS</a>]
01:19:19 ◼ ► you are so far ahead of where expert service I did offers were in 1993 with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4759">TS</a>]
01:19:26 ◼ ► your stupid little 19 ekhono program right like the things that things can do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4766">TS</a>]
01:19:30 ◼ ► the scalability performance and reliability of that are just worlds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4770">TS</a>]
01:19:34 ◼ ► beyond expert level knowledge from two decades ago so that's that's even one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4774">TS</a>]
01:19:38 ◼ ► decade ago that's why I think like you know that's what he's getting at is like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4778">TS</a>]
01:19:41 ◼ ► even though you don't know anything about this you'll be able to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4781">TS</a>]
01:19:44 ◼ ► something else that has good performance scalability and reliability even if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4784">TS</a>]
01:19:49 ◼ ► have almost no idea what you're doing you just put it a little bit of time and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4789">TS</a>]
01:19:53 ◼ ► many many years ago and also remains not true if you want a 500 million users [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4793">TS</a>]
01:19:57 ◼ ► which is libelous crude but you're not gonna have 500 million users and if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4797">TS</a>]
01:20:02 ◼ ► do presumably you can hire me look like Instapaper runs on about 10 servers does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4802">TS</a>]
01:20:08 ◼ ► it it does a lot of stuff for a lot of people but the magazine runs on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4808">TS</a>]
01:20:13 ◼ ► cheapest VPS outline erode its $20 a month the entire service runs on that my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4813">TS</a>]
01:20:19 ◼ ► blog market or get service number of patients these days that runs on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4819">TS</a>]
01:20:24 ◼ ► cheapest VPS outline erode again because it's like the stuff that we can get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4824">TS</a>]
01:20:30 ◼ ► today is so advanced and everything is so fast hardware so cheap to rent and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4830">TS</a>]
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01:20:41 ◼ ► the bandwidth is pooled from other servers and I've never exceeded that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4841">TS</a>]
01:20:44 ◼ ► pool adjust to whatever whatever each server comes with its all pull together [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4844">TS</a>]
01:20:48 ◼ ► and I've never need to buy more than that and that's a pretty big with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4848">TS</a>]
01:20:52 ◼ ► intensive app like you can do so much now with so little money and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4852">TS</a>]
01:20:58 ◼ ► relatively few servers and and and yet using one of these crazy host of things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4858">TS</a>]
01:21:03 ◼ ► you don't even have to deal with the individual servers directly its you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4863">TS</a>]
01:21:07 ◼ ► just do so much and the fact is most iPhone app developers are gonna need to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4867">TS</a>]
01:21:13 ◼ ► do some crazy ridiculous complex thing during life their app should finish [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4873">TS</a>]
01:21:18 ◼ ► quoting but I assume going by memory here is an article from the very bottom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4878">TS</a>]
01:21:23 ◼ ► how r maybe this wasn't someone else's commentary Apple thing about how they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4883">TS</a>]
01:21:26 ◼ ► want to control all the important part is that part yeah well anyways I can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4886">TS</a>]
01:21:33 ◼ ► find the exact part but he says you know here he said Tim Wood of the Omni group [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4893">TS</a>]
01:21:38 ◼ ► treated the tweeted the phrase own the wheel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4898">TS</a>]
01:21:42 ◼ ► here's the thing is that this is Brent Burns words here here's the thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4902">TS</a>]
01:21:47 ◼ ► have to Miller evolution is about designing and building apps for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4907">TS</a>]
01:21:51 ◼ ► the other half is about right on the web services the power those apps how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4911">TS</a>]
01:21:54 ◼ ► comfortable are you with outsourcing half of the year after the company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4914">TS</a>]
01:21:57 ◼ ► gerber's commentary that I was remembering is it was so don't take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4917">TS</a>]
01:22:02 ◼ ► Bransford reconsider Tim Cook stock that's relieved that we need to own and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4922">TS</a>]
01:22:06 ◼ ► control the primary technologies behind the products we make you know if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4926">TS</a>]
01:22:10 ◼ ► want to make a great product you want to have certain things under control [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4930">TS</a>]
01:22:12 ◼ ► obviously you're not you don't control everything you know the App Store you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4932">TS</a>]
01:22:16 ◼ ► know control kokou during the source code for that in most cases unless it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4936">TS</a>]
01:22:20 ◼ ► like you know something is part of Darwin like so many things are out of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4940">TS</a>]
01:22:23 ◼ ► your control and this is what's frustrating I think you know good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4943">TS</a>]
01:22:27 ◼ ► developers with iCloud is there they've accepted the things that are outside [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4947">TS</a>]
01:22:32 ◼ ► their control the platform the store the other language the API the compiler and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4952">TS</a>]
01:22:36 ◼ ► lots of things are outside their control but they always felt like I can wrangle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4956">TS</a>]
01:22:41 ◼ ► the things that are within my control to make sure our customers have a good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4961">TS</a>]
01:22:44 ◼ ► experience in this club thing is like there between a rock and a hard place [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4964">TS</a>]
01:22:46 ◼ ► because the customers think they wanted and are demanding that they want to sync [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4966">TS</a>]
01:22:49 ◼ ► features and they specifically a strike called by name because good PR and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4969">TS</a>]
01:22:54 ◼ ► can't make it work and that's that's an uncomfortable situation to be in my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4974">TS</a>]
01:22:58 ◼ ► brain to never promise last board because they control that side of it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4978">TS</a>]
01:23:02 ◼ ► on it was on them to make it work and they could make it work because they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4982">TS</a>]
01:23:05 ◼ ► controlled everything top-to-bottom they never were gonna hit a barrier where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4985">TS</a>]
01:23:08 ◼ ► they like this isn't behaving in a deterministic way it's buggy and I can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4988">TS</a>]
01:23:12 ◼ ► fix the bugs like that was never going to be you know it's a blocker right they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4992">TS</a>]
01:23:16 ◼ ► never had those bloggers who wasn't working right they were tweaked their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4996">TS</a>]
01:23:19 ◼ ► service offering if you really want to you know control your destiny to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/4999">TS</a>]
01:23:22 ◼ ► extent possible in a lot like Prince article said why would you give up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5002">TS</a>]
01:23:27 ◼ ► control over half of your application and less and less like giving up control [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5007">TS</a>]
01:23:32 ◼ ► is one thing the other thing is like not having to worry about those details so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5012">TS</a>]
01:23:36 ◼ ► Lauren gave up control of his application to Game Center if that had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5016">TS</a>]
01:23:40 ◼ ► not worked out for him that would have been very bad and a lot of problems I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5020">TS</a>]
01:23:45 ◼ ► know but like it like eventually it sorted itself out of scaling problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5025">TS</a>]
01:23:49 ◼ ► caused no news gave center for letterpress and bug in weird right but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5029">TS</a>]
01:23:53 ◼ ► he didn't want to write that stuff himself is not one interested him I had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5033">TS</a>]
01:23:59 ◼ ► that's the tradeoff he he made there maybe he regretted maybe who went second [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5039">TS</a>]
01:24:03 ◼ ► time he would do the service I part himself right but that uncomfortable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5043">TS</a>]
01:24:07 ◼ ► situation where you know you're giving up control in exchange for you hope not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5047">TS</a>]
01:24:12 ◼ ► having to do that and if it comes out well you like hey look at all that work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5052">TS</a>]
01:24:16 ◼ ► I said that was really smart and you know I got featured on the App Store is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5056">TS</a>]
01:24:19 ◼ ► amusing game center in the seventh of the fringe benefits to using you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5059">TS</a>]
01:24:22 ◼ ► Apple's API's right if it doesn't work out you can't keep your application here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5062">TS</a>]
01:24:26 ◼ ► adding it for the night time then you're sad and you like that happen again from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5066">TS</a>]
01:24:30 ◼ ► now on I'm ready everything from scratch like Lauren Berger who doesn't use you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5070">TS</a>]
01:24:36 ◼ ► Center at the so what's gonna happen in June or whenever WBC is with regard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5076">TS</a>]
01:24:43 ◼ ► specifically to iCloud I mean is they gonna have a new API are they going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5083">TS</a>]
01:24:47 ◼ ► say oh man everything is finally fixed and if so is it gonna be real there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5087">TS</a>]
01:24:51 ◼ ► gonna be a bunch of baloney mean what do you guys think of everything is all that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5091">TS</a>]
01:24:55 ◼ ► the new filesystem Casey aw I walked in the Smart TV not a circus will be so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5095">TS</a>]
01:25:03 ◼ ► no but seriously I mean do you guys think that they're going to be a big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5103">TS</a>]
01:25:06 ◼ ► push for iCloud repentant for it are they gonna say oh no really for our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5106">TS</a>]
01:25:11 ◼ ► first for sure I promise this time its facts I don't know if they have enough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5111">TS</a>]
01:25:17 ◼ ► time he'll apps for them to be able to you know they know they need to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5117">TS</a>]
01:25:22 ◼ ► something I don't have enough time has passed them to have actually done it I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5122">TS</a>]
01:25:25 ◼ ► don't know if they can come to me and say here is the thing and we have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5125">TS</a>]
01:25:30 ◼ ► solution to fixing it is scrapping and replacing is something in between like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5130">TS</a>]
01:25:35 ◼ ► don't think there's enough time has passed for that to happen all I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5135">TS</a>]
01:25:39 ◼ ► they can do when they show up there is hopefully engaged developers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5139">TS</a>]
01:25:44 ◼ ► acknowledged the issues and have something for them that improves their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5144">TS</a>]
01:25:48 ◼ ► while also acknowledging the like this I don't think they gonna come out it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5148">TS</a>]
01:25:51 ◼ ► like to think about 14 get that existed as another thing it's awesome it works [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5151">TS</a>]
01:25:58 ◼ ► you will forget 501 ever existed and people go oh wow that's awesome and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5158">TS</a>]
01:26:03 ◼ ► they just forget you know I don't think there's enough time has passed because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5163">TS</a>]
01:26:05 ◼ ► maybe maybe a pessimistic but like in the very story think they said they like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5165">TS</a>]
01:26:12 ◼ ► for people working on iCloud stuff or whatever Apple has anyone thinks they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5172">TS</a>]
01:26:17 ◼ ► have right and I know how much work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5177">TS</a>]
01:26:20 ◼ ► handful developers can get done in like a year's time I just I'm not optimistic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5180">TS</a>]
01:26:24 ◼ ► but I'm coming down from the mountain with new stone tablet and saying we have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5184">TS</a>]
01:26:29 ◼ ► some of your problems you know not because they don't want to hurt or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5189">TS</a>]
01:26:33 ◼ ► negligent but just because not enough time I don't think that might my theory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5193">TS</a>]
01:26:41 ◼ ► is that is entirely but I thought is that I i think there's problems in both [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5201">TS</a>]
01:26:44 ◼ ► the AP the ABIM limitations and problems with just the user conceptual model of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5204">TS</a>]
01:26:49 ◼ ► iCloud and I love you know where your data is in your apps how it's tied to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5209">TS</a>]
01:26:54 ◼ ► the Appellate it signed into the device I think they're they're such conceptual [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5214">TS</a>]
01:26:58 ◼ ► problems there that I'm not expecting iCloud as it is named today to ever be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5218">TS</a>]
01:27:04 ◼ ► fixed I'm expecting it to happen more like MobileMe which is like some next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5224">TS</a>]
01:27:11 ◼ ► generation they will come out in a few years to replace or upgrade iCloud and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5231">TS</a>]
01:27:17 ◼ ► work differently for the users not just the developers I think it'll it'll have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5237">TS</a>]
01:27:21 ◼ ► to be conceptually different for the user to keep the name now I don't think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5241">TS</a>]
01:27:29 ◼ ► be able because it already is an umbrella term in there are parts of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5249">TS</a>]
01:27:32 ◼ ► iCloud work ok like you don't have to scrap key-value store just don't it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5252">TS</a>]
01:27:37 ◼ ► fine right under the umbrella of iCloud so when you say that iCloud is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5257">TS</a>]
01:27:40 ◼ ► conceptualized there's no such thing as iCloud like iCloud CoreData stuff is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5260">TS</a>]
01:27:44 ◼ ► conceptually bankrupt and needs to be replaced or modified in iCloud [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5264">TS</a>]
01:27:49 ◼ ► hey when you signed out we dump all your data that was linked to it like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5269">TS</a>]
01:27:52 ◼ ► whole connection between your Apple ID DRI cloud thing and the data and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5272">TS</a>]
01:27:55 ◼ ► applications like that can be revised it all day thing can happen over the course [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5275">TS</a>]
01:27:59 ◼ ► of several years without ever having to have a MobileMe to iCloud type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5279">TS</a>]
01:28:04 ◼ ► transition I like I think they can keep the name because it is an umbrella term [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5284">TS</a>]
01:28:07 ◼ ► that really has no relation to you know like why is key value storage and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5287">TS</a>]
01:28:14 ◼ ► documents in the cloud on the umbrella of I got no reason they don't share the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5294">TS</a>]
01:28:18 ◼ ► same service that this setback and might be written by entirely different teams [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5298">TS</a>]
01:28:22 ◼ ► be entirely different code the friend an API is also entirely different teams [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5302">TS</a>]
01:28:25 ◼ ► they can be entirely different languages for all we knew they'd like to see that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5305">TS</a>]
01:28:28 ◼ ► one could be like are found like they're so there it as unrelated at anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5308">TS</a>]
01:28:32 ◼ ► else except the network services market decide they're going to be under the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5312">TS</a>]
01:28:36 ◼ ► umbrella I cause I think Apple has plenty of runway in the room to totally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5316">TS</a>]
01:28:41 ◼ ► change everything about iCloud well still calling iCloud and just making it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5321">TS</a>]
01:28:47 ◼ ► yeah I think but I think they like they're gonna have to do something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5327">TS</a>]
01:28:51 ◼ ► that's that's changing the way you know the whole portion of iCloud that is AB [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5331">TS</a>]
01:28:58 ◼ ► storage the app storing their own data and having that sink somehow they do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5338">TS</a>]
01:29:04 ◼ ► multiple uses and I S III just think that whole concept as we talk about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5344">TS</a>]
01:29:09 ◼ ► being in another episode about about the the file storage thing not necessarily [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5349">TS</a>]
01:29:15 ◼ ► making a lot of sense or or being too simple and not really addressing the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5355">TS</a>]
01:29:18 ◼ ► problem domain well enough I I think the entire iCloud data model for apps has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5358">TS</a>]
01:29:25 ◼ ► the entire I thought data model is too simple to limited doesn't really address [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5365">TS</a>]
01:29:29 ◼ ► the real life problems and usage well enough for a lot of apps and I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5369">TS</a>]
01:29:32 ◼ ► we're not going to see that get fixed with the part that we currently know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5372">TS</a>]
01:29:37 ◼ ► today as I cloud over the section of it what we will probably instead see is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5377">TS</a>]
01:29:41 ◼ ► people will start following instructions of you see fewer and fewer ads relying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5381">TS</a>]
01:29:46 ◼ ► on iCloud especially from big developers who who who know better and have the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5386">TS</a>]
01:29:50 ◼ ► resources to do not use it and under a tree and and I i feel like just like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5390">TS</a>]
01:29:58 ◼ ► both of you said key-value storage I think that'll carry on I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5398">TS</a>]
01:30:02 ◼ ► documents and iCloud will probably carry on I feel like core data sync iCloud [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5402">TS</a>]
01:30:08 ◼ ► will go the way of garbage collection and no matter how you look at it the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5408">TS</a>]
01:30:12 ◼ ► forecast for iCloud it's cloudy we have to end the show now I did that just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5412">TS</a>]
01:30:18 ◼ ► really you're not allowed to keep talking up to that I do that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5418">TS</a>]
01:30:24 ◼ ► terrible but I restrained myself see that scans your professional and we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5424">TS</a>]
01:30:31 ◼ ► should have an awesome song by Jonathan man how awesome was at stake now the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5431">TS</a>]
01:30:41 ◼ ► show they didn't even need to be in a dental [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5441">TS</a>]
01:30:59 ◼ ► and you can show no see a team markle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5459">TS</a>]
01:31:39 ◼ ► did you see his follow up like a second version better he made a second version [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5499">TS</a>]
01:31:45 ◼ ► yes I said the song he made was nice but it didn't it didn't like the magically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5505">TS</a>]
01:31:52 ◼ ► whatever it didn't seem right for the show and he said well what would sound [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5512">TS</a>]
01:31:57 ◼ ► right there shows and books or something he made some moves which is also awesome [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5517">TS</a>]
01:32:39 ◼ ► that I did not see i no idea I'll have to pay as one of the men and will give [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5559">TS</a>]
01:32:48 ◼ ► will give him a good link in the show notes and thanks to Jonathan man that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5568">TS</a>]
01:32:52 ◼ ► the song a day guide you to for doing this so I I love I lost my junk when I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5572">TS</a>]
01:33:00 ◼ ► saw that in the sense that I don't believe that a good way in the good way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5580">TS</a>]
01:33:03 ◼ ► in that I can't believe that somebody on the internet would care enough about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5583">TS</a>]
01:33:09 ◼ ► city it's particularly me to to include me / us in a song that I was beside [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5589">TS</a>]
01:33:15 ◼ ► myself excited that I'm good enough and gosh people like me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5595">TS</a>]
01:33:39 ◼ ► cyclist don't want to have to do something it'll take at least a hundred [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5619">TS</a>]
01:33:47 ◼ ► episodes don't you nobody's gonna be sick of us has an artist I always wonder [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5627">TS</a>]
01:33:53 ◼ ► if like if you know mark on I we had our progress where are we getting to Union [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5633">TS</a>]
01:33:57 ◼ ► people are we getting the intersection for the people who can who could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5637">TS</a>]
01:34:02 ◼ ► tolerate me and can tolerate Marco is the sum of our parts less than you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5642">TS</a>]
01:34:10 ◼ ► I think you guys are confused really on the big draw in you too or just writing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5650">TS</a>]
01:34:13 ◼ ► my coat tails yeah that's what your job is is to make all the people who hate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5653">TS</a>]
01:34:20 ◼ ► both me and Marco have someone like Apple / John sorry there are those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5660">TS</a>]
01:34:25 ◼ ► people and you know I want to start months Casey starts getting haters of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5665">TS</a>]
01:34:29 ◼ ► his own then pulled them out problem it's only a matter of time and you can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5669">TS</a>]
01:34:32 ◼ ► do a podcast for that long and not getting very likable very likable that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRuyL2Y/5672">TS</a>]
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